And away we go!!

The objective is Space Exploration.

I am aiming to play a series of games with the various nations/leaders/traits all the way through to a completed Space Race keeping all world variables set to standard but with random opponents. The first game will at Prince and the level will advance as experience is gained.

Slots in the roster have been reserved for a rotating coterie of Civ3 "old hands and idiots" with one open slot in each game.

The first roster:

grahamiam - subject to confirmation
Tubby Rower - subject to confirmation
admiral kutzov - subject to confirmation
-open- for new friends and old
Bede

And for the starting nation

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a371/doconor/SC01/SC01.jpg

And the start location

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a371/doconor/SC01/SC02.jpg

The starting save is attached. The fun starts soon!

Could I have a place? Long-time lurker, recent poster, played a few games of Civ4.

I've managed to win once on Prince. Before that, I played a few games on Noble, got ahead of he rest of the pack to the point where the game seemed a certain win.

I'm in.... We have to download the patch correct? I d/led it and now my PBEM with Whomp is not working right. My old SP games load fine but my PBEM games aren't.

Let's get rolling.

:salute:
lead us to places no man has gone before, Oh Glorious leader....

Could I get in? At the moment, I have no problems at noble, easily dominating those lousy AI's :)

@Maksim - in for a penny.

@SW - if g-man doesn't claim the spot or TR elects to uninstall the patch it is yours.

@Zavior - you're shortlisted for the next one.

@TR - 1.09 it is. If you want to pass on this one so you can finish your PBEM with the whompster, that's cool. Ley me know.

Watching this one. I'll sign up for another one, when a slot comes free.

No I'm not going back. I'm planning on playing IVoTM 1 and am not going to sit on the sidelines. Whomp's apparently installing the patch. We'll just have to re-start our PBEM.

settler in place and scout to the gold hill for first moves. Mining for first tech? start warrior then immediately swtich to worker once growth to pop 2 happens. That has been good to me.

Also I've noticed that if you get too far ahead in techs... The AI don't like trading with you after a certain point. and they don't ever seem to trade with you again. Not sure whether staying behind is a good idea either. Another thing that I've noticed is that fairly early you need to ask the AI what they think of each other. Pick someone who is relatively liked by most others to be a partner with. Turning your back on an AI that has been your friend can cost you the game. but that's for later.

eotinb has created a little mod to place in your custom assets folder that will automatically dump the events into a text file. The link is in my sig. It was intended for SG & GOTM usage. I'm tweaking mine a little to add some color but I might back off on that. If you need help installing it let me know & I'll try to help out.

Aww, Tubby, what do I owe you for this plug?

Yes Bede, I know I should be posting my TGOM03 turns instead of reading this thread. :whipped:

Consider this post a request for a spot in a future Space Cadets game (although they seem like they might fill up quickly and I don't mind waiting).

I'm going to give g-man a little more time so how about TR kicking it off on Saturday?

The rota:

Tubby Rower - get us started
Maksim - on deck
Bede
AdmK
g-man

As always 24 to post your got it and another 24 to play and post. Skips are automatic, so just pick and play if the next in the roster hasn't posted a got it in 24.

@TR or eotinb - have not had any success with "autolog" . I set the directory to the CustomAssets and it still didn't fly. Any suggestions?

Well, can you give me any more detail on any error messages you may have received? And which version are you using?

This line is a bit vague:
I set the directory to the CustomAssets and it still didn't fly.
Do you mean that you edited autolog.py and set the path directory to CustomAssets or that you installed the included Python files to CustomAssets\python (or both)?

I dunno if you read the entire thread in TR's sig link (or mine for that matter, now that I think about it) but many of the most common problems were solved therein.

Most excellent! I'll engage in a bit of on-the-spot analysis, then. ;)

So, we are Persians. Creative and Expansive.

I love Creative. In the early game, when you are building your first cities, you want their borders to expand ASAP. There are four main ways to achieve this:

1) Get a religion
2) Build obelisks
3) Build Stonehenge
4) Be creative!

Building obelisks takes a lot of time in size 1 cities. Stonehenge takes out one of the bigger cities (most likely the capital) and hurts early expansion. Religion is a risky business, and depends on luck for spreading (as it's unlikely we'll be building missionaries straight away).

So, being creative is good in my book.

Expansive I'm normally not so sure about - the health bonus is nice but I'd take financial over it any day of the week. However, with some floodplains in our city radius it will come in useful.

The Persian Immortal is a replacement for Chariot. This is nice but, barring an early rush, it may never see combat. And if it won't, do we really want to build these guys? Mind you, one of these serves really nice as rapid response units, able to quickly reinforce where necessary.

We don't start with Mysticism, so an early religion is not an option, unless we try our hardest. Even then, on Prince, this might require us to go for Judaism, which is a bit too much effort for my liking, especially since we already get expanding borders from being creative.

Depending on what our scout finds, I'd be very tempted to go the Mining-Bronze Working routine, produce warriors and settlers. We will want Animal Husbandry for the horses as well, though.

OK, I'm done.

My one game as the Persians, an early Immortal rush worked nicely to take out a (very) close opponent. Once spears become prevalant, they quickly lose their effectiveness :( The bummer of 1.09 though is not seeing Horses off the bat, you do at least get the pre-req techs for AH; still need Wheel to build Immortals, though.

I can start it during my daughter's nap today. Is it still 20 turns to start on the [civ4] SG's?

A couple of questions:
Tech order of research: we've said that we're looking for Mining and need HBR to see horses.... so what order? I'm thinking that we just need to have mining ready when the worker (start it's build at pop 2) is finished with the farm on the wheat. so wecould research Animal husbandry 1st then we can look at HBR vs. mining. maybe start some research on HBR then switch to Masonry timed to get it just before the worker needs to know how to drill into the ground.

AA wonders: unless stone or marble is around I don't think that any are worth the risk. In a Pangea Prince game I was playing yesterday, I got the Parthenon, Stonehenge, and the Oracle but had both marble and stone. Otherwise I wouldn't have attempted any of them. I still had the greatest amount of land. Done correctly, the Wonders won't hamper growth.

Build order: this is my thinking, warrior(until pop2), worker, finish warrior, somthing else, settler (should be @ pop 3 or 4 by then).... The something else is really determined by what happens in the game. any other suggestions

Sounds like a plan Maksim and TR.

no worries, bede.
ill wait for gman to come in.
i might be over extending myself again, and RL has not been [civ4] friendly this past month, so regretably i have to retract my application.
i will be watching and making stupid remarks when possible.
and hopefully ill be able to get a spot on one of the next ones.

<<>>><SAVE><<<>> (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/SpaceCadets01_BC-3200.Civ4SavedGame)

bad news, our scout (Venerable Bede) died to lions
good news, we seem to have most of our island already mapped due to a couple of GHs.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/SCape01_3200BC.JPG

Turn 0 (4000 BC)
Persepolis founded
Jupiter 5 begins: Warrior
Research begun: Animal Husbandry

Turn 1 (3960 BC)

Turn 2 (3920 BC)
Tribal village results: a little gold (39)
Jupiter 5's borders expand
Tribal village results: map

Turn 7 (3720 BC)
Tribal village results: map
Jupiter 5 grows: 2

Turn 8 (3680 BC)
Jupiter 5 begins: Worker
Buddhism founded in a distant land

Turn 9 (3640 BC)

Turn 10 (3600 BC)
Tech learned: Animal Husbandry
Scout loses to: Barbarian Lion (1.58/2) :(

Turn 11 (3560 BC)
Research begun: The Wheel
Research begun: The Wheel

Turn 17 (3320 BC)
Tech learned: The Wheel

Turn 18 (3280 BC)
Research begun: Mining

Turn 19 (3240 BC)
Jupiter 5 finishes: Worker
Worker starts a farm on the wheat

Turn 20 (3200 BC)

I'd say that after our capital grows to 3 we need to get a settler out of there.

The first place for the warrior to go is the GH up by the wines. NE and NW are the only two non-confirmed coasts. all of the other coasts have been spotted. The horses showed up at animal husbandry. The wheel gave us Immortals but it looks like we might be able to use them :(. After mining we need to get fishing and then go for galleys to settle over the straight before someone else gets to it.

Can someone generate a dotmap? My city locations are always off it seems.

Gotta love those maps in this game. I wasn't expecting a large island, though it looks like a nice mix of resources to exploit.

My choice for research would take us on the path to the "Worker" techs but given the mix of resources and coastlines Sailing may be a wiser choice

The rota:

Maksim - the man with plan is up but first kill the lion!
Bede - on deck
AdmK
g-man
Tubby Rower - got us started

Got it. Will play Sunday (UK evening time).

The town locations? Hmm, I'm quite partial to sending one settler to the east coast, getting horses, cows and crabs (4E and 1S of capital). Nice location food-wise, horses will give some production bonuses. Overlapping two non-bonus tiles with the capital.

West coast? 1N and 2W of the gold will get us a floodplain bonanza. Drop some cottages by the river, grow large and profit. Sure, it's not on the coast but it's only one water tile in its radius.

South-east region? Either 1W of the wheat or 1NE. The former allows for fish and wheat, and the plains will serve to provide some shields. The latter exchanges the sheep for the fish.

South-west region? Well, it's either one kick-ass city 1N and 2W of the cow, getting all four bonus resources in that region (but that way we don't have a port on the west coast!) or two cities - one 2W of the wheat, and one close to cow.

Am I rambling yet? Good.

North we still need to explore. we may get a port town somewhere in the jungle up there but so far it's not looking terribly promising.

Awww, I was hoping to see some Immortal action. You got the horsies, but you lucked out on neighbours. Atleast you have what looks like a really, really good island all to yourselves.

A little tip, always set your first city to emphasize food early, you want it to grow ASAP and you don't really have anything useful to build. Also, if you are alone like you seem to be you'll need a religion. Without neighbours you can't be infected by one and living without one until Astronomy is not something I recommend. You should also keep in mind that with being expansive and having that many health resources, fresh water isn't that important when founding cities.

Sorry for butting in like this, but reading through so far made me think back on many mistakes I've done in the past and SGs are good ways for both players and lurkers to pick up new tips.

Right, I’ve said that I’ll play this tomorrow. I lied.

3200 BC. We have a city with two citizens, a worker about to build a farm in 5 turns and no military protection whatsoever. Apparently, the lion ain’t asleep and he was looking for some meat. ;-)

I micromanage the town – move the citizen to the floodplains for the extra coin and faster growth. I wouldn’t normally bother but I try to match the town production and growth before making a settler, so that it should grow just as the warrior is finished. Now the growth outpaces production so I’ll need to come back to this in a couple of turns.

Turns 1-3. Looking at the city (station?) grow, twiddle thumbs.

Turn 4. Mining comes in, I settle on Bronze Working as that will allow us to see copper and do forest chops.

Turn 5 (3000 BC). Worker builds farm and roads it, citizen immediately goes to work there.

Turn 6. Both growth and production come in. I order us a settler, and MM a citizen to use floodplain as opposed to a plains forest. Same production, one gold coin extra.

Turn 7. Worker heads off to build a pasture on the horses.

Turn 8. Hinduism founded far away.

Turn 9-10. Nothing happens. Nothing continues to happen.

Turn 11. Pasture complete. Settler remaining time went down from 8 turns to 5.

Turn 12. Nothing. Move along.

Turn 13. With settler three turns away from completion, I’m favoring sending him eastwards. Yes, we will overlap for two spaces but so what?

Turn 14. Workers build a road from pasture to river. Great scientific minds debate the best way to ship horses up- and downriver. Radical theories concerning the beasts’ ability to swim are proposed.

Turn 15 (2600 BC). Warrior arrives onto the shore but does not find anything useful.

Turn 16. Settler built. We can build an immortal in 5 turns? Excellent! Bronze Working will arrive in two turns.

I’m stopping here for tonight. I aim to send the settler over to the east coast, where the computer suggests. Unless I hear otherwise, that’s what I’m going to do. Techwise, I’m very tempted to go with Pottery next, and build many cottages.

Comments, anyone?

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=105304&stc=1&d=1133049747

Pottery should definately be next. Cottages turn powerful over time. then fishing and then sailing. so that we can get around over water.

IIRC, there are some horses something like 2 SW of the capital too.

so no neighbors except the "neigh"bors :lol:.. .alright stupid joke. without neighbors to trade with we are going to have to be scientific powerhouses to keep up. Is this continents, peligo, pangaea ?

so no neighbors except the "neigh"bors .. .alright stupid joke

I laughed... :goodjob:

The map is continents.

Got to build Bede's Clamshack and Steakhouse


http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a371/doconor/SC01/Civ4ScreenShot0080.jpg

@Maksim, if you resize your screenshots to 800x600 then they will fit in the page frame without any scrolling for us dunderheads who don't have 21' monitors

Bede,

OK, will resize the pictures in the future.

I’m not sure about your proposed city spot. It gets less sea squares, which aren’t that great (2F 1G) but it shares four squares with the capital, which isn’t that great either. It also loses the horses (in favor of a later city).

The horses are nice not just as a resource but also as a shield producer.

If it’s a question of getting to the clams faster, then it shouldn’t matter, as we will expand our borders within five turns to get them in – faster than we can research fishing and build a work boat.

So, what am I missing?

:D You're not missing a thing. Forgot about native culture. Pick your best spot.

My job on this team is to provide the inane commentary!

checking in :wavey:

:salute: g-man, welcome aboard the Enterprise!

OK, here is the end of my turn.

Turn 17 (2520 BC). Settler arrives at the spot. Hmm… cows and horses and sci-fi? Serenity Valley founded.

Turn 18. Bronze Working finished. After some deliberation, I choose Fishing next, as it’s quicker than Pottery, and I want those clams connected ASAP – two food bonuses will make Serenity grow.

Turn 19-20. Not much. Capital grows to size 4. Immortal will be ready next turn.

Serenity Valley is set to build Barracks – I suggest changing that to a Work Boat as soon as technology becomes available.

The capital will finish an Immortal next turn. We could build another worker, or a settler straight away. Or perhaps build another immortal and grow one size more before pumping out further workers/settlers?

Good luck!

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=105397&stc=1&d=1133108675

Save File (http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=105398&stc=1&d=1133108675)

I'd get a settler out since the workers won't have much to do right now. at least not til pottery.

Since we might be all alone until optics, we might want to start building tons of cottages.

Got it. Settlers and Immortals and Workers oh my!

The Game is Afoot (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/SC01_Bede_BC-1800.Civ4SavedGame)


Turn 40 (2400 BC)
Jupiter 5 finishes: Immortal
Jupiter 5 begins: Settler

Turn 41 (2360 BC)
Move the Immortal to the NW
Tech learned: Fishing
Serenity Valley's borders expand

Turn 42 (2320 BC)
Research begun: Pottery
Serenity Valley begins: Work Boat
The boat will finish and town growth will take place just in time for the nets to cast

Turn 43 (2280 BC)
Tribal village results: hostiles
My first mistake

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a371/doconor/SC01/SC01_00.jpg

decide to attack anyway and
Immortal defeats (4.00/4): Barbarian Warrior
Serenity Valley grows: 2
The remaining barbarian attacks but
Immortal defeats (3.48/4): Barbarian Warrior

Turn 44 (2240 BC)
The Immortal nets two promotions: Medic and Flank :cool:

Turn 45 (2200 BC)

Turn 46 (2160 BC)

Turn 47 (2120 BC)

And here's that lion
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a371/doconor/SC01/SC01_01.jpg
but this time the outcome is more favorable as Immortal defeats (2.56/4): Barbarian Lion

Turn 48 (2080 BC)
Tech learned: Pottery
Serenity Valley finishes: Work Boat

Turn 49 (2040 BC)
Research begun: Sailing
Serenity Valley begins: Worker
Jupiter 5 finishes: Settler

Turn 50 (2000 BC)
Jupiter 5 begins: Warrior

Turn 51 (1960 BC)
Jupiter 5 finishes: Warrior

Turn 52 (1920 BC)
Jupiter 5 begins: Immortal
Jupiter 5 begins: Immortal
Jupiter 5 grows: 5

Turn 53 (1880 BC)
Settler with escort is traveling to the Black Hills floodplain (name the town Deadwoood) for the Gold and the gold. We really need a gold mine to keep the capitol happy.

Turn 54 (1840 BC)

Turn 55 (1800 BC)
Worker as finished a cottage at the capitol and is building another for the coins.

The Empire

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a371/doconor/SC01/SC01_02.jpg

Serenity Valley is training a worker so we can do something about those trees to build a lighthouse. Sailing is due in a couple.

I think I played five too many, I'm still not used to the date/turn relationships.

The roster
AdmK - Ahoy Admiral, you are up
g-man - on the deck
Tubby Rower - got us started
Maksim - the man with plan is up but first kill the lion!
Bede - got the lion and tried to stick to the plan

Bede, Tubby Rower played 20 turns, and so did I. You only played 15.

Apologies if your intention was to have first person take 20 turns, and everyone else take 15. I misread it as "everybody gets 20 turns on the first turnset".

well Maksim, in civ3 the tradition was that the first player plays 20 then everyone else from then on plays 10 until the Industrial Ages when things bogged down.

It is hard to correlate the date with a turn. I found myself looking at the victory screen every turn to see when my time was up.

well Maksim, in civ3 the tradition was that the first player plays 20 then everyone else from then on plays 10 until the Industrial Ages when things bogged down.

It is hard to correlate the date with a turn. I found myself looking at the victory screen every turn to see when my time was up.
:cry:
maybe you could add, to those marvelous add-ons of yours a turn number display?

Tubby Rower,

My apologies - despite reading a few SGs from the Civ3 days, hadn't figured this out.

For those using autolog, you can alt-tab out of cIV and open the text file and see the turn number while you are playing. Of course, this negates one of the advantages of using autolog (not havig to alt-tab out). I think I could make a simple mod that displays the current turn number on the main interface -- would that help?

I can prolly get a turn number in the time mod that I'm using. There seems to be plenty of room for all of that information in that box

EDIT:: I modded homegrowns mod in my sig and the new file is in this post. Hasn't been tested yet but it should work no problems. SHOULD being keyword here ;)

EDIT:: EDIT:: Another version of it doesn't make the clock vanish when the new turn comes around in this post. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=3380299&postcount=38)

Some roster rearrangement as the Adm has not been seen in his accustomed places for some time now.

The roster:

g-man - up
Zavior - on deck
Tubby Rower - on deck
Maksim - the man with plan is up but first kill the lion!
Bede - got the lion and tried to stick to the plan


AdmK - on walkabout

@Zavior - you're invited to take the admiral's spot.

The plans laid down by Maksim and TR seem to be what's needed, so let;s carry forward, though I probably should restrict myself to inance commentary as I have yet to win a game at any level.

though I probably should restrict myself to inance commentary as I have yet to win a game at any level.in due time... in due time ;)

I have a long set tonight in LoTR17 so I don't expect to get to it tonight. If TR can pick it up, that's fine with me. Otherwise, I'll play and post tomorrow night :)

I'll gladly play.

Revised, revised roster:

Zavior - his debut performance with the grump and idiots - welcome aboard
g-man - swapped with Zavior
TR - waiting for the lion

I'll start playing now.

Oh well. I tried to get that autologger thing to work for like 2 hours, reinstalled game but still it wouldn't run. Harf.

1760 BC, Turn 57:
Immortal comes in.Start building another one.

1720 BC, Turn 58:
Persepolis founded next to goldhill. Barbarian warrios approaches.
Capital is already on max happiness. Turn on avoid growth + emphasize production.
Worker ready, and sent to horses.
Sailing in, set research towards Writing.

Turn 59:
Worker actions.

1640 BC, Turn 60:
Worker actions.
Serenity Valley grows to size 3, starts a galley. It would be useless to build lighthouse since its already on max happiness, and we dont have any luxyrys around..

1600 BC, Turn 61:
Nothing.

1560 BC, Turn 62:
Immortal kills barbarian warrior.

1520 BC, Turn 63:
Now I realise gold is luxury, stupid me. Worker sent to mine it.

1480 BC, Turn 64:
Nothing

1440 BC, Turn 65:
Writing in 1 turn.

1400 BC, Turn 66:
Writing in, capital starts library. Research set to Mathamatics.

1360 BC, Turn 67:
Another worker starts mining the goldhill.
Barbarian warrior spotted.

1320 BC, Turn 68:
Galley built and sent to explore. Hopefully we can get some contacts.

1280 BC, Turn 69:
Gold will be online in 1-2 turns, this means Jupiter 5 and serenity valley can grow again.

1240 BC, Turn 70:
Jupiter 5 & Serenity valley will grow next turn.
http://img374.imageshack.us/img374/9172/civ4screenshot00004jc.jpg

Oh well. I tried to get that autologger thing to work for like 2 hours, reinstalled game but still it wouldn't run. Harf.
Don't worry sometimes it takes a few attempts. It tooks me at least 3 and Bede had his running after two. If you have MSN then I might be able to help you. my IM id is casey DOT venters AT hotmail DOT com. I try to be on most nights but I have a two year old and sometimes my wants are trumped by her ;).


Nice to see the turn thing in the upper right corner is working for you :D

EDIT:: cottages, cottages, cottages

curious why we chose math. CoL gives us a religon that could help us deal with the unhappiness problem, or did Confucianism already get founded elsewhere?

we can switch and come back to math. you're up next graham so I'm with you that if we can be Confucious then let's do so.

@grahamiam
We would have to research 3 other techs which would give us no benefit before we could start researching CoL.

oh, was looking at the pdf of the tech tree and I thought the required tech was writing, all other techs optional. but I was probably reading it wrong.

I think it only shows writing as prereq, but if you load the save and click on it you can see it requires 3 other techs.

yeah, I'm still trying to figure basic stuff like this out :)
edit: the three techs cost 210g, while math costs 250g, so we could still get to CoL quicker if we want that but it's probably unlikely that we'll beat an AI to it

well, math leads to currency and calender. we have any calender luxes around? or is currency better for markets?

I was thinking about markets and one extra traderoute that currency gives, and I agree that it is very unlikely that we could beat AI's to CoL.

Oh well. I tried to get that autologger thing to work for like 2 hours, reinstalled game but still it wouldn't run. Harf.
No!!! Not another person who has reinstalled trying to get my mod to work! :wallbash: I'm beginning to think I've caused more re-installs than the 1.09 patch.
Sorry this gave your trouble Zavior, but as TR said, you are not the first. Come on over to the autolog thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=141164) and we'll try to puzzle out what went wrong (if you think it's worth the effort -- I won't be offended if you are ready to give up on it.)

I've read that thread like 3 times already, but I will give it a go later today.

many days late and dollar short. still accepting?

Admiral, welcome back. You'll take the slot in the roster after g-man.

The roster

g-man - up
AdmK - on deck
Tubby Rower - got us started
Maksim - the man with plan is up but first kill the lion!
Bede - got the lion and tried to stick to the plan
Zavior - made a fine entrance (faint strains of "Hail to the Chief" in the background)

i'm serially dilatory, but does anyone have alpha? if we get it, what next?

go it. We're going for math, then currency AK.

Turn 69 (1240 BC)
hmm, pretty tiny island we have here.
hmm, 3 wines on the island as well. Looks like trading for Monarchy is something we'd be interested in.
Jupiter 5 grows: 6
Serenity Valley grows: 4

Turn 70 (1200 BC)
build a cottage on the FP near Persepolis
Move the NW Immortal SE to get it in range of the homeland. There's a barb warrior moving towards Persepolis that I don't like.
galley continues SE along the island coast

Turn 71 (1160 BC)
The Immortal in Serenety is fully healed, so send him SW to take care of the barb. NW Immortal stays put for now

Turn 72 (1120 BC)
not much, just hunting barbs
Jupiter 5 finishes: Library
Persepolis grows: 3

Turn 73 (1080 BC)
Immortal defeats (3.48/4): Barbarian Warrior
take down the barb warrior, gain 2XP's (4/5)
Let Jupiter finish the granary as there's nothing else to build right now.

Turn 74 (1040 BC)
Looks like that island to our SE is very small. It does have stone and horses though
Jupiter 5 finishes: Granary

Turn 75 (1000 BC)
Jupiter 5 begins: Settler
decide to build a settler. We could use another city
Serenity Valley grows: 5

Turn 76 (975 BC)
worker roads grass near Jupiter to aid the settler movement
Serenity valley, at pop 5, needs an MP
Ok, the small island to our SE has stone, horses, and lambs

Turn 77 (950 BC)
build another cottage around Persepolis. it's at +3fpt and will have a granary, so this could be a very good research city.
galley has found a 1T island to our S, so there's more coast to explore

Turn 78 (925 BC)
Tech learned: Mathematics
Serenity Valley finishes: Library
Persepolis finishes: Granary

Turn 79 (900 BC)
Research begun: Currency
Persepolis begins: Library
Serenity Valley begins: Galley
I set Serenity to a galley so it can go N and explore that landmass
Immortal defeats (2.96/4): Barbarian Warrior
Immortal gains 1XP to go to 5/5
We have no calender lux's atm, so no need to research. We could use Monarchy, so maybe we do want to switch to Alpha as AK suggests so we can make some trades? Don't know if we'll get our money's worth.
Also, I'm roading near Persepolis so we can go towards the NW wines. However, we may want to go SW towards the copper. Who knows, we may meet someone nasty and Axemen may be necessary. Also, the high level techs are getting pretty expensive for our 3 town empire. We may want to go back a research IW after Alpha or currency, as a market will only gain us 1 happy face atm.

Good thinking as always.

The roster


AdmK - up
Tubby Rower - on deck
Maksim - the man with plan is up but first kill the lion!
Bede - got the lion and tried to stick to the plan
Zavior - made a fine entrance (faint strains of "Hail to the Chief" in the background)
g-man - got his head around it

by the way fellas, we need to specialize the cities. Forges aren't needed in every city. the increase in shields might not be worth the unhealthiness that comes from the forge.

What wonders do we have available? Stone is a production doubler on a few of them.

@Tubby: afaik, no wonders are available. Actually, Jupiter could only build units, no buildings. In regards to forges, we don't even have IW, so we don't have to worry about that yet. However, Jupiter and Serenity have decent shields. Persepolis can have a half-dozen or so cottages if we want, so it'll be a research monster. 1st Great Scientist should build an Academy there.

I've got it. had personal stuff tonight. will play tomorrow after work.

Revision with questions. Always the questions.

I've had some success with churning out merchants on noble. Send them out on trade missions after optics for 1500+ g. allows the research to be kept at 100%.

another thing to think about is we want to be the first to circumnavigate the world for the extra naval unit movement

are we wonder averse?

Admiral, I've used the same strategy as well, but it works better if you have Merchant-producing Wonders. Otherwise, I'm more inclined to generate a Great Scientist and build an Academy.

When we have caravels, I would suggest building two and sending them into opposite directions. Sometime during their voyage, I usually discover Paper, carefully trade with some AIs to get part of the world map, and cover the rest with caravels to get the bonus.

I don't see anything about being wonder-averse, so if we have a shot at one, go for it!

Looked at the save and played a bit. Thought some discussion was warranted. The biggest thing I noted was that our cities have maxed out on happiness; we have no more happy resources to connect nor happy gas improvements to build.

Given the above, I slowed the growth of our cities and put scientists in Serenity and Jupiter.

Just popped a settler. Igor knows where to stick it, but igor is an idiot so I thought I'd solicit opinions (as opposed to femine companionship). See screenie thingy. The positioning is based on gaining access to fish. We could also go for copper and wines. That, gentle reader, would require investment in Monarchy. Given our lack of marble, Versailles in an investment in futility.

There's no point in running to alpha until we meet someone (anyone, anyone, Bueller, Bueller?)

Igor thinks we need optics after we get some old time religion (taoism?)

I had a couple of prepatch noble space wins. I built great merchants and sent them out on trade missions and kept the research cranked at 100%. Not suggesting that it would work here but it did in the past. In the first space win, I never fought a war until I launched nukes the turn before the spaceship was ready to rock.

The island looks useless for wonders (except maybe the Colossus).

Tubs wants to specialize the cities. I have no problem with that; I just want a strategic goal.

Methinks (to quote Woody) that we need one religion so we can turn some citizens to priests. Sidebar: very ironic that religion is impo'tent (to quote Curly) in this game given the C3 temple rant. :)

Holding for comments. Do I play ten or twenty?

Hope this makes some kind of sense.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/Robot1.JPG

Personally I would make tracks for Astronomy (or whatever tech lets us sail the ocean blue) and get sailing the globe. We are going to have to capture or trade for luxury goods but we need to know where they are before we can do either.

I am not too concerned about government stuff, yet.

As for town location either would be good, just don't build any granaries until we get some more happiness generating goodies. Though it looks like B might be the stronger commerce producer.

Religion is good, but we have to aim for one rather than just going for techs as we see them. What's our best bet right now? Is Confucianism still available?

Personally, I would build settlers and workers now. We have the place to ourselves, so we should use it. Both A and B spots, one city in the northeast, one or two cities in the southwest. Get a settler and some defense on a galley and send them over to the next island we can reach as well.

Also, do our cities have military protection right now? If not, build and fortify a unit there - that should give us one more happy face.

Government-wise, Monarchy will let us switch to Herediatry Rule which will fix our happiness problems at the cost of building armies.

I've tried that in an MP game last night, and was able to grow my cities to size 16 when rivals were at size 8-10. Unfortunately, most of my extra income got eaten by the army upkeep. :)

I'd build B one square left, its on river and will eventually get wheat. After that we will have 2 research powerhouses.
Land above our capital looks good for city that specializises on production.

I was thinking about that too Zavior. I chatted a bit with the Admiral last night on MSN and I told him my thoughts were to settle B and head for Optics (gives caravels). The thing with moving 1 W of B is that the fish won't be there until the 3rd expanasion. But there is also another fish to the NW.

So my vote is settle 1W of and head for optics. Religion can wait IMO.

I disagree with moving 1W. Yes, it's on the river. So what - we are expansive and have 5 health resources so it's not like health is an issue anyway. We also lose a nice floodplains square.

Looking around that terrain, I see a lot of plains, which are 1F only. So where does the extra food come from? Yes, there's wheat and there's one floodplains left but that's it. I just don't feel that will be enough later on, when we get to size 7-8.

Just my two cents.

it can work water aswell - for coins and food.

ahhh... you can call me the "Waffle King".
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/waffleking.gif

b in it's original location is fine with me

i'm fine with AK's dot. I agree with MaximMaksim :blush: that we should be expanding more. Jupiter should build more settlers to claim the copper/wines to the SW, the wines/cow to the NW, and maybe on the freshwater/cow to the N. We should try to get up to at least 7 cities (probably 8 or so) on this rock, and quickly. It'll hurt a bit in the short-run but will be best in the long run.

Zavior,

Water is only break-even for food. So yes, you can keep growing as long as you've got water tiles to work, but each one only gets 2F 2G, which sucks compared to windmills and towns.

Here's da plan (or Igor's sick twisted little version)

I'm gonna settle B, then find a religion to claim (don't underestimate the power of priests), and then run to optics. Back later

no turn log since nothing much happened that hasn't already been discussed. We can get confusedism if we go myst, mediation, priesthood, COL. CoL helps on economics too by cutting maintenance costs.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/Will_Robinson_BC-0675.Civ4SavedGame

And the roster:


Tubby Rower - up - boats for the admiral
Maksim - on deck
Bede - got the lion and tried to stick to the plan
Zavior - made a fine entrance (faint strains of "Hail to the Chief" in the background)
g-man - got his head around it
AdmK - up

I wasn't a fan of going for a religion but we might have confucianism in 2 turns :D. Also met Asoka and founded 2 cities (one of them a fine dining city called Steak and Wine (SaW) and the other on the island by the sheep called fe's Paradise). 2 more settlers are being built now (1 due next turn or two).

Ge got a Great Scientist. I moved him just south of Jupiter 5 so he can go where we want him to. He can discover Alphabet if we want, or be a +4culture +10science (?) super-specialist, or build an academy. being this early it might be good to specialize a city for science and build the academy. But I'm fine with Alpha too.

Also a barb showed up last turn in the south west and tried to foil our master plan of getting Looooosstt in Sppaaaaaaace. So I killed him with an immortal :D .

Turn 88 (675 BC)
Persepolis grows: 5
Persepolis finishes: Library

Turn 89 (650 BC)
Persepolis begins: Settler

Turn 90 (625 BC)
Serenity Valley finishes: Lighthouse

Turn 91 (600 BC)
Tech learned: Currency

Turn 92 (575 BC)
Research begun: Code of Laws
Tubby: Start Code of Laws (Confucious still there)
Pasargadae founded
Steak & Wine begins: Library
Serenity Valley finishes: Galley

Turn 93 (550 BC)
Serenity Valley grows: 6

Turn 94 (525 BC)
Jupiter 5 finishes: Settler

Turn 95 (500 BC)
Jupiter 5 begins: Market

Turn 96 (475 BC)
Contact made: Indian Empire
Tubby: Meet Asoka (he only has 3 cities)
Tubby: and no religion :D
Serenity Valley finishes: Barracks
Steak & Wine's borders expand

Turn 97 (450 BC)
Serenity Valley begins: Immortal
Jupiter 5 begins: Settler
Merit Ptah (Great Scientist) born in Serenity Valley
Persepolis's borders expand

Turn 98 (425 BC)
Immortal defeats (2.44/4): Barbarian Warrior
Tribal village results: a little gold
Pasargadae founded
fe's Paradise begins: Library
Research begun: Code of Laws
Tubby: CoL due in 2 (religion still there)
Tubby: Billy Bob (worker south of SaW) was roading to SaW

and now the <>><<<<save>>>><<> (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/SpaceCadets01-BC-0425.Civ4SavedGame)


edit:: btw, spot B is still not settled. two settlers are in queue though. Here is a screenshot of the current situation
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/SC_zoomed_out_tR2.JPG

and Asoka's borders
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/SC_Asoka_border.JPG

imho, form an academy in Persepolis (if that's going to be a sci city)

Academy in Persepolis sounds good to me. That mined gold hill will add a few beakers to our endeavors.

Can someone make a (good) dotmap out of the pic in my turn report?



EDIT::: here's my attempt

can we move H to the big island? I don't see much point in taking that little one, unless there's a couple of resources that I don't see?? We should take advantage of the sheep as much as possible. otherwise, map seems fine

edit: oops, were already near the sheep :D

H was just plopped there just in case we run out of things to do :)

btw, spot I (in teal to the south and hard to see) I think should be moved to the E 1 tile. it was easier to just put an arrow than redo the map

Academy in Persepolis is the way to go. That town is going to pump out so many beakers it is not even funny.

BTW what did we do to earn us a Great People. I'm still learning how to manage that piece of business so any hints will help.

The map looks good TR. And :thumbsup: on Confucius. I am a little baffled that Asoka remains irreligious, though.

Roster check

Maksim - get Confucius to say something. And here's the save if you don't want go back a page to find it (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/SpaceCadets01-BC-0425.Civ4SavedGame)
Bede - will try to stick to the plan
Zavior - made a fine entrance (faint strains of "Hail to the Chief" in the background)
g-man - got his head around it
AdmK - what can I say?
Tubby Rower - boats and religion and sheep

This is nothiing specific. I just want all to slow down and remember this is not your father's C3. Until we get civic and city improvements, cities that we found are going to cost us money. Therefore, I'm suggesting that we not focus on OCP or ICP but rather resource potential maximization. Don't place the cities based on the tiles but rather on the resources they can grab.

Based on an IM discussion with graham, i think we made a mistake building cottages on the FP near Persepolis

IIRC, COL also gives us caste system. that lets bede do the MM thingy.

I'm not convince commerce is king in this game.

Just keep thinking outside the box and forget whatever u think u knew about C3

Got it. Will play tonight/tomorrow night.

@Bede We most likely have scientist somewhere.

We had 2 scientists in a few towns. I pulled the scientists in place of citizens actually working tiles in Persep to help the production of the settlers. Once we switch to something besides settlers or workers the specialists should go back because they were helping to keep the city from growing and would be unhappy.

RE: caste system.... I'm just recently finding out about the power of specialists. So maybe changing the cottages to farms might be a better idea AK. but we need a couple more workers and at least 4 more settlers. Since Asoka is so close, we might want to hurry up and settle the outer fringes to the north to keep him from doing so.

Later in the game cottages are much more powerful than farms.. But this is just a personal opinion :)

Zavior, I think what they are planning is a "specialist" city. The extra food will allow more specialists and extra GP points. I can go either way. I've haven't played with specialists too much so I haven't an opinion, except this....

The AI focus heavily on cottages. In the late game their tech pace screams. Many have theorized that this is due to the heavy emphasis on cottages.

As I said I can go either way but I lean towards the cottages just because I know that works in a space race.

OK, the game looks good to me so far. Unfortunately, my Internet connection went down as I was originally playing this, so I didn't download the turn tracker and still use the old-fashioned method of keeping track.

0425 BC (turn zero) – I agree Open Borders with Asoka, as I prefer to enjoy goodwill as soon as possible. This also allows the galley by his island to start circumnavigating it.

0400 BC (turn one) – Persepolis finishes settler, I begin a worker, as we are short of them.

375 BC (turn two) – Many things happen this turn.

CoL comes in, and Confucianism is founded in Serenity Valley. Excellent! This should solve our happiness problems. Also, strangely enough, Asoka doesn’t have a religion, so we might convert him to our faith. I revolt to our new state religion immediately.

Last Best Hope is founded so that it can grab both wheat and fish. (I thought it was our fifth city, thus the name). I start on a Work Boat, then realize that Serenity Valley can easily produce one for the new city, and start on a Lighthouse instead (may have been a weed move, as this won’t offer much benefit).

350 BC (turn three) – Forest grows. Confucianism, aided by a missionary, spreads in Jupiter 5 (our largest city right now, so the first to encounter happiness problems). With the anarchy over, what should I do with our science? The two most obvious goals seem to be Iron Working and Monotheism. The first will let us know if we have iron on our island, and the second will give us 25% hammer boost for buildings, and allow us to easily spread Confucianism. I set us to learn Mysticism as it takes just one turn.

325 BC (turn four) – Mysticism learnt. I look at our island, and worry that we might not have Iron after all. If so, I’d rather find out now. Iron Working in three turns.

300 BC (turn five) – We’re running out of money, so science goes down to 90%.

275 BC (turn six) – Confucianism spreads to fe’s Paradise on its own. I realize that we need to send a worker down to the second island – Serenity Valley has finished a Work Boat and starts on one.

250 BC (turn seven) – IW is learnt, and we have Iron! It’s on the westernmost tip of the island.

225 BC (turn eight) – Masonry is learnt, Polytheism began. Settler is built and is sent down to cows/copper region.

200 BC (turn nine) – Jupiter 5 is fixed not to go beyond happy limits.

175 BC (turn ten) – Monotheism is due in two turns. I’ve had to go down to 80% science to keep our money level, and expect to go down even further once we found another city.

I left the settler unmoved, as I’m unsure whether to send it west or east of the peak.

Galley in Serenity Valley is asleep; awaits a worker to ferry him to fe’s Paradise.

There’s a work boat that’s finally arrived to Last Best Hope’s fish resource, and should connect it next turn.

I think our next move should be to spread the religion in our cities, maybe get a Great Prophet (?).

I really haven’t played as well as I should (in retrospect, I would have gone for Alphabet and traded with Asoka for Mysticism and Polytheism, would not have started a Lighthouse). My apologies.

:bounce: :bounce: run to optics. when I get a response, I'll defend this suggestion

Yes I do know the principle of specialist city, it might work early, but later in game, when specialists only produce 3/5(cant remember) beakers, cottages easily overpower them.

For now, running specialists might even be better, setting up some acadiemies certainly wont hurt.

something to keep in mind when we have a war. The AI is going to sail to our improved sea sites and pillage them

Got it. Play tomorrow. Go straight to Optics, do not pass go, do not collect 200 gold coins. The Admiral wants boats, the admiral gets boats.

And I will see what I can do about making a Prophet to spread the word.

Admiral, since you seem quite eager to defend runing to Optics, I'll play along and be the devil's advocate... err... the devil's prosecutor! :)

On my turnset, we got a religion so I wanted to use it - it took us about 3-4 turns and will take two more to get the most out of it, with the appearance of Organized Religion civic, which is the builder's civic of the early game.

Iron Working was done more to cover our bases.

Considering that most of our production so far has been settlers and workers (perhaps even too much, eh?), and we plan for a couple more cities at least, what good rushing for Optics and denying ourselves the benefits of earlier and cheaper techs would be?

For one, meeting other civs that might have Alpha by now and trade with them if they are isolated, we could make out big. Another is the extra ship movement if you are the first to circumnavigate the world.

Those would be my arguements in said trial of Lucifer. :devil:

the running to optics gets us a place to send great merchants to keep our tech pace as noted by Tubs. the benefit of the religion is not corrupted by the tech rush. also note we are not locked into work on a tech until it is done. If we're running to optics and discover a pressing need for something else, we can change to the something else and then go back and finish optics. optics also allow us to go kill the whales

Major events were equipping a couple of settlers, revolting to OrgRel and Caste, training some Missionaries to spread the faith locally for happiness, and setting research to Optics at a sustainable rate. Might want to pick up Priesthood for temples and a little more happiness as it is way easy to lose contril of towns that are not building settlers or workers. S&W has a red face right now, but there is a missionary training due in a turn or so who can go deal with them. There is another missionary on the way into Persepolis so the science guys can go back to work in the hamlets.

Interesting management problem we have set for ourselves with the lack of luxury goods and our objective. Keeping the beakers burning is tough as the cottages are on floodplains so the output is food and coin, but swapping back to farmed flood plains will cost us coin :confused: So I guess we have to work the religion aspect for every happy face we can as growth past four is a problem without religion and temples....

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a371/doconor/SC01/03.jpg

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a371/doconor/SC01/5.jpg

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a371/doconor/SC01/4.jpg

Lots of holes right now as I am still stumbling around. Train out enough missionaries to convert the remaining towns on the homeland then send a couple galley loads to India.

Zavior - covert the people<<<<<<<<<<<<up
g-man - get us onthe ocean
AdmK
Tubby Rower
Maksim
Bede - got the lion bit now has a tiger by the tail

What does India's land look like? no religion still?

No Priests for Asoka yet, so why not send a couple of boats loaded with missionaries out to spread the word?

we need open borders to send bede's brethern to india

sorry about the double, but I'm too lazy to edit.

Just throwiing out something for consideration. I've had success in going for the civics that are low or no upkeep. anyone else have an opinion?

Vassalage & Theocracy are the only two high upkeep civics that I use. And only use them when getting ready for war. Stick with the low to no upkeep usually

Got it. I'll play after school.

we need open borders to send bede's brethern to india

We do have Open Borders with India - I established them on my turn to map out his island/continent.

Only one of our cities is lacking confusion, that will be handled by missionary finishing next turn, another one in two, for new city.
Soon we can start confusing Asoka too. I set Jupiter 5 to starve to get rid of that sad face, now that metal casting comes in we could build forge there too.


Turn 120, 100 AD
Persepolis gets the religion.

Turn 121, 150 AD
Worker actions, missionary will soon arrive Steak n wine

Turn 123, 175 AD
Steak n wine gets the religion too.

Turn 124, 200 AD
Arf, Jupiter 5 gets to size 8, that means one sad face. That will be fixed when we get forge there though. Switch tiles around, shaving one turn off metal casting.

Turn 125, 225 AD
Nada

Turn 126, 250 AD
2 settlers will be ready next turn. Missionaries will also be ready to spread the confusion.

Turn 127, 275 AD
Great scientist is born in serenity valley, sent to Jupiter 5, which produces the most beakers/turn. Will build academy there.
Two settlers en route, one to D spot, I dont agree with C though. It overlaps with Jupiter five, and could be coastal too. I'll leave this to be decided.
Persepolis starts worker.

Turn 128, 300 AD
Academy built in Jupiter five, one turn off metal casting. Confusion spreads to Pasargadae.

Turn 129, 325 AD
Settlers arrive their spots next turn, some roading.

Turn 230, 350 AD
Nada.

we need to get a great prophet out of one of our cities so that we can build the Holy Temple (what ever it's called for Confusion).

So now we have 2 academies correct? one in Jupiter and one in Persep... If we get another Great Scientist let's consume him in research. I'd hold off on building a forge unless our health is REALLY high. I've started to limit unhealthy buildings and have decent size cities. Downside to that is that if the luxes to keep the healthy people happy aren't there then you might HAVE to build them

Well, we had an option of researching tech - aplha, which would have taken 8(not sure) turns to research otherwise.. not worth it yet imo

Roster check:


g-man - get us on the ocean<<<<<<<<<<<<UP
AdmK - pacing the quarterdeck
Tubby Rower
Maksim
Bede - got the lion bit now has a tiger by the tail
Zavior - made some converts

hi guys,
RL is crushing me right now. I won't have time to play again till Sunday. 'tis the season :)

I've got it, yessiree Bede. Mine, all mine, wanton destruction and debauchery coming right up <evil cackle, runs and jumps into ocean>

I've got it, yessiree Bede. Mine, all mine, wanton destruction and debauchery coming right up <evil cackle, runs and jumps into ocean>

a double posting, AK?
you must be eager!
good to know t=you havent gone missing the hard way....

just having pyschotic episodes

hey, what's the goal here? any advice?

Convert the Indians and sail the ocean!

well, yeah that part I figured out. whomp keeps telling me to declare.

k, I looked at the save.

why are we in caste system if we have a whompin' ;) 4 specialists in our entire little world?

and (mini-rant) why don't we have alpha yet?

play tomorrow, gonna take some serial thunkin'. get out the fire extingers

Hey people, sorry it took me so long to play, but I found Beer. I addressed some of our happiness problems using missionaries to spread Confusion in a couple of our cities. There's a settler mid continent on his way to boat for the Isle of Sheep. I started courthouses to get us some more money. In the middle, we picked up Alpha and, big suprise, Asoka is up 4 techs and won't trade a thing. So we've back on the path to Optics. Pressed for time. Oh yeah, there's a Great Scientific Guy to use as the next player sees fit. He's in Serenity IIRC

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/Will_Robinson_AD-0350.Civ4SavedGame

g-man - you are up!
Tubby Rower - on deck
Maksim
Bede - got the lion bit now has a tiger by the tail
Zavior - made some converts
AdmK - pacing the quarterdeck

looks like I'm up in 3. will try to play tonight or tomorrow :)

Turn 129 (350 AD)
Jupiter 5 begins: Aqueduct
I see that the admiral is completely enchanted with Great People :lol: Some cities are nearly unproductive due to excess Scientists, etc. Jupiter, the capital, really doesn't need a courthouse, so I switch it to a duct so we can maybe build HG or
get bigger someday in the future
The great Scientist will discover Calender but we really don't have a need for that (no Calender luxes around)
I honestly don't understand why we're going for Metal Casting right now, but it's fine. However, we should go for Monarchy next so we can get the wines hooked up

Steak and Wine's borders expand
fe's Paradise grows: 4
Pasargadae finishes: Lighthouse

Turn 130 (375 AD)
Pasargadae begins: Worker
Serenity Valley finishes: Worker
Persepolis finishes: Worker

Turn 131 (400 AD)
Serenity Valley begins: Market
Persepolis begins: Market
Serenity Valley finishes: Academy

Turn 132 (425 AD)
Beer's borders expand

Turn 133 (450 AD)
Arbela founded
Arbela begins: Library
Serenity Valley's borders expand
Persepolis grows: 6

Turn 134 (475 AD)
Jupiter 5 finishes: Aqueduct
fe's Paradise's borders expand
Beer grows: 2

Turn 135 (500 AD)
Jupiter 5 begins: The Hanging Gardens

Turn 136 (520 AD)

Turn 137 (540 AD)
Serenity Valley grows: 7
Persepolis grows: 7
Steak and Wine finishes: Courthouse
Pasargadae finishes: Worker
Arbela's borders expand

Turn 138 (560 AD)
Steak and Wine begins: Market
Pasargadae begins: Barracks
Pasargadae begins: Library
Tech learned: Metal Casting
Steak and Wine grows: 6

Turn 139 (580 AD)
Research begun: Monarchy
Susa grows: 3

Turn 140 (600 AD)
Lack of luxes is making this harder than it should be. However, we're all the way down to 30% research, we need more infrastructure to help.
Hopefully, some markets and forges will help this along now
We should also start thinking about building a handful of swords just to make sure India doesn't get frisky.
We may have a shot at HG, as stone will be hooked up in 2T and it has about 170hammer left (which will get cut in half, I think. or maybe it'll be done when we get to 150hammer?).
India has a settler galley out along our East coast

Roster check:

Tubby Rower - up. Make us kings!
Maksim - on deck
Bede - got the lion bit now has a tiger by the tail
Zavior - made some converts
AdmK - pacing the quarterdeck
g-man - up and got to it. It is really easy to fall into a Great People addiction.

I'll try to get this when I get home. in about 8-9 hours

Turn 140 (600 AD)
Tubby: Cancelled open borders to keep Asoka from settling in the south

Turn 141 (620 AD)
Beer grows: 3

Turn 142 (640 AD)
Serenity Valley finishes: Market
fe's Paradise finishes: Market

Turn 143 (660 AD)
Serenity Valley begins: Settler
Jupiter 5 grows: 8
Persepolis's borders expand
fe's Paradise grows: 5
Arbela grows: 2

Turn 144 (680 AD)

Turn 145 (700 AD)
Tubby: Asoka demanded Mono..... I told him no.
Susa finishes: Courthouse
Confucianism has spread: Lahore (Indian Empire)

Turn 146 (720 AD)
Susa begins: Library
Jupiter 5 finishes: The Hanging Gardens

Turn 147 (740 AD)
Jupiter 5 begins: Swordsman
fe's Paradise finishes: Library

Turn 148 (760 AD)
fe's Paradise begins: Courthouse
Tubby: Asoka built the Collosus in Dehli
Immortal promoted: Combat I
Pasargadae finishes: Library

Turn 149 (780 AD)
Pasargadae begins: Courthouse
Last Best Hope begins: Immortal
Pasargadae's borders expand

Dunno where we are headed with this. Our research sucks!!!!! so I built a ton of cottages. Monarchy due in a couple of turns. I have two Immortals up by Lahore in case we want to attack. Don't think that it's advisable but I thought that I'd give everyone an option. We are ahead of him but he isn't trading anything and our open borders aren't happening soon either.

I'll post a screenshot soon

<<SAVE>> (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/SpaceCadets01-AD-0800.Civ4SavedGame)

Heh. You guys should be launching right about now (http://www.channel4.com/entertainment/tv/microsites/S/spacecadets/)....

Lahore & the two Immortals
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/Lahore.JPG

The rest of the story.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/homeland.JPG

Turns out we'll get Monarchy next turn. I don't know if there are any workers near the wines but they should be connected as soon as possible. After moving the second immortal up to Lahore I realized that the immortal that left Serenity Valley was keeping 2 citizens happy (currently 4- -I think- unhappy). If you don't decide to attack move him back ASAP.

hey graham, re the specialists. our cities were going to go into red faces if they grew so I shut down the growth in favor of the peeps.

about the research: metal casting is a prerequiste for optics which is a required for caravels

I request a favor in the future: whoever plays before before me put in big bold letters that we are going for space near the save. that should prevent me from doing silly things with GP.

Asoka will start trading as soon as we meet another civ.

don't forget about magellan's bonus

why is everyone hell bent on war? lahore is properly confused. We need to spread our confusedism

need another settler on the Isle of Sheep

sorry AK, but I am pretty stupid with this game atm. so any explainations are greatly appreciated :)

optics, re caravels: they do not carry troops, but I'm guessing you want to meet more people, right?

imho, we have enough cities. markets, libs, and forges (where it makes sense) will help. plus the wines will get rid of 1 red face. Hereditary Rule (this comes with Monarchy too :) ) will give us MP happiness as well, so I suggest that the next person consider revolting to it once we get Monarchy.

graham, I'm pretty stupid in most games. I just want to make the point not to play this like C3. i.e. there's not one path to the republic slinger. also, hereditary rule is going to increase our costs. Bede needs to refine Igor's generally fuzzy principles of C4 civs which are:

1. Can we afford the new government?
2. Do the benefits offset the costs?
3. a third priniciple to be determined

I like a "generally fuzzy" Igor....

Agreed the benefits of organized religion might be petering out. The Caste System might also need to be reconsidered. Specialists are not what we need right now unless they are priests to keep people happy.

Specialists are not what we need right now unless they are priests to keep people happy.


tubs, you must embrace the way of the idiot. There are no quick and sure paths in the IV. You must learn to go with the flow. consider the benefits of GP. not saying that it is the correct choice, just don't get locked in to a path

yes, graham, we want more contacts. caravels can also carry a merchant.

well, we can revolt to Hereditary Rule + go back from Mercatilism to Slavery. With the markets and Lib's, we can have 2 each of Scientists and Merchants, which is enough for now. Having any more atm in one city is really not optimal as we need hammers to build defenses (we are paper thin atm) as well as the forges/markets/libs we need.

@AK: we all know this is not Civ3, so stop telling us that.

@AK: we all know this is not Civ3, so stop telling us that.Really. I've been doing pre-builds during my turns :lol:

@AK, the title of the game is Space Cadets
I'm not sure how much clearer I can make it.

This game is definitely not your mother's Oldsmobile. I have won two games on Prince: one was a Space Launch at 2049, the other was a histographic win! That isn't going to garner any fast finish awards, that's for sure. My biggest problems are keeping my focus on the tech path, managing the Great People production and managing the diplomatic process. The last is going to be the toughest, I think.


Roster check:

Maksim - Put on the crown
Bede - wants to make more friends, or enemies.
Zavior - made some converts
AdmK - pacing the quarterdeck
g-man - up and got to it. It is really easy to fall into a Great People addiction.
Tubby Rower - Got us a crown

This is week is going to be really busy for me, I'm not sure if I can play at all this week.

OK, I've got it. Will play tonight.

Looking at the screenshot, I don't want to go to war with Asoka. We suck economically, thus now is not the time for war. Plus, there's a chance the town will flip to us culturally if we play our cards right.

Scientifically, my plan would be to go either Paper-Education route and build Universities, or else go for Astronomy and build Observatories.

I will probably revolt to Hereditary Rule - may get out of Caste System and possibly Mercantilism while I am at it (although the latter is unlikely).

Should be interesting.

Some of the borders near the edge of the island should be expanding fairly soon due to the libraries. Keep an eye out for more sea once they expand and bust through some more fog.

Some of the borders near the edge of the island should be expanding fairly soon due to the libraries. Keep an eye out for more sea once they expand and bust through some more fog.

Huh? Sorry, I'm quite confused by this phrase. What should I be looking for in the sea? Friends, enemies, islands, great Cthluhu rising from his watery grave?

Galleys can only go on sea tiles or within our cultural borders. So if a city's border exapands that is near the edge of our island(s), we could potentially find the coast/sea around another island like Asoka's. If Asoka is this close, there might be another island near us.

If war isn't going to happen, try to re-open the borders with Asoka. He wouldn't let us re-open borders duiring my turns. Which means I prolly made a mistake by closing them while he was headed to plant a settler :( .

OK, thanks for the explanation.

So, I begin.

Lower science to 20% to avoid going in debt, MM some cities to get it back at 30%. Study our empire for a while, feel bad about it.

First of all, Caste System that we’re running is totally useless for us. We only have one specialist at most, and even that’s a scientist, in cities with a library.

Three of our cities still lack religion. That’s bad, as it means they’re not getting happiness or hammer boost.

Some of our cities are undefended. And it’s the big ones, which means they’re in disorder. How we can fight anyone when we have no army to even defend ourselves?!

On reflection, some cities have been badly placed. Susa should have been one tile to the left to grab the fish bonus – it would be a proper fishing village then, with one grassland mine for the shields. Arbela, on the small island, doesn’t get either the fish north of it or the horses down south, and all the riverside tiles are prairies, which means no easy growth until the end times.

We only trade within our civilization. Oh, so we have Mercantilism, right? Wrong! We closed borders with Asoka and don’t know anybody else. So, we get all the problems of Mercantilism with no benefits.

In short, it sucks to be us.

Still, not everything is lost. There are a few markets coming in, and we are almost about to figure out the concept of kingship.

Kick off!



Turn 150 (800 AD)
Tech learned: Monarchy
Jupiter 5 finishes: Swordsman
Serenity Valley finishes: Settler
User comment: Don't know what to do with this guy - we can't afford any more cities right now. I park him on a hilltop.

Turn 151 (820 AD)
Research begun: Priesthood
Serenity Valley begins: Harbor
Swordsman promoted: Combat I
User comment: Revolted to Hereditary Rule/Slavery, and out of Caste System. Upkeep stays the same, but most of the happiness problems have been solved.
User comment: We lack both Meditation and Priesthood. Rushing for Optics is unfeasible, as both Machinery and it are 15+ turns at the moment. I need instant gratification, and I need it now!
User comment: More importantly, Priesthood allows temples, which are good for us.
User comment: Meanwhile, a certain wise man tells us that we are ahead of Asoka in tech, and behind everyone else. We take it stoically, as befits the disciples of Confucius, and thank the elder for his wisdom.

Turn 152 (840 AD)
Jupiter 5 begins: Immortal
Serenity Valley begins: Confucian Missionary
Last Best Hope's borders expand
Beer finishes: Courthouse
Arbela finishes: Library
User comment: Let's take care of the last few cities that don't have the teachings of Confucianism in them.

Turn 153 (860 AD)
Beer begins: Lighthouse
Arbela begins: Lighthouse
Arbela begins: Granary
Tech learned: Priesthood
Jupiter 5 finishes: Immortal
Steak and Wine finishes: Market
Last Best Hope finishes: Immortal
User comment: As more buildings finish, our situation begins to improve.

Turn 154 (880 AD)
Research begun: Meditation
Jupiter 5 begins: Confucian Missionary
Steak and Wine begins: Granary
Jupiter 5 begins: Immortal
Persepolis finishes: Market
Steak and Wine grows: 7
Last Best Hope finishes: Courthouse
Susa grows: 5
Arbela finishes: Granary
User comment: Let's build Monasteries as well as temples! We could use the research and culture boost.
User comment: First Wine is connected and immediately exchanged for Sugar with Asoka. Second wine will be online shortly.

Turn 155 (900 AD)
Persepolis begins: Confucian Temple
Last Best Hope begins: Worker
Arbela begins: Barracks
Last Best Hope begins: Library
Tech learned: Meditation
Jupiter 5 finishes: Confucian Missionary
Serenity Valley finishes: Confucian Missionary
User comment: I want one Barracks on the small island, just in case.
User comment: I sold Asoka Monotheism for 30G here, hoping that it would make him like us more. Didn't work.

Turn 156 (920 AD)
Jupiter 5 begins: Confucian Monastery
Serenity Valley begins: Granary
Research begun: Literature
Jupiter 5 begins: Confucian Missionary
Pasargadae grows: 4
Beer grows: 5
User comment: Now this was a tough tech choice, and feel free to argue.
User comment: However, at this point, I don't care about meeting other civilizations.
User comment: I would much rather take Theology, go on to Paper and Education.
User comment: We need to catch up in tech to the main continent, where they have been wheeling and dealing for the last five millenia.
User comment: However, Great Library is still available, so I'd like to pick it up. National Epic should be built closer to Lahore, so we have a chance of culture-flipping it.

Turn 157 (940 AD)
Steak and Wine finishes: Granary
Beer finishes: Lighthouse
User comment: You might notice I'm building Granaries. This is because I want to grow. We have, in choosing Hereditary Rule, just removed all caps on population growth from happiness. Unhappy? Have some army!
User comment: Use this to our advantage!

Turn 158 (960 AD)
Steak and Wine begins: Confucian Monastery
Beer begins: Granary
Confucianism has spread: Susa
Tech learned: Literature
Jupiter 5 finishes: Confucian Missionary
Serenity Valley grows: 8
Serenity Valley finishes: Granary
Persepolis grows: 9
Last Best Hope grows: 7

Turn 159 (980 AD)
Research begun: Theology
Jupiter 5 begins: Confucian Monastery
Serenity Valley begins: The Great Library
Confucianism has spread: Last Best Hope
Susa finishes: Library
User comment: I kick off TGL, thinking it would give us a research boost. You could cut down two grassland forests near Serenity Valley to help with it.
User comment: We will still likely fail (I estimate our chances as no higher than 50%).
User comment: But it will give us some cash to play with, and sponsor deficit research.

Turn 160 (1000 AD)
Susa begins: Granary



Afterthoughts and notes.

There is a settler asleep on a hill beneath Jupiter 5.

Cancel GL in Serenity if you like - it could use some normal buildings.

Asoka has Machinery, which is a prerequisite of Optics. Check if he's willing to sell.

There's some new borders visible in the northwest. There's a Galley that was going there (I canceled the automove, though).

I've tried to set people to work on cottages where possible, to make them grow. A fully developed town beats a specialist in the late game (8 gold versus 3 science? Ha!).

Best of luck!

There's some new borders visible in the northwest. There's a Galley that was going there (I canceled the automove, though). woohoo. I was wondering if all islands would be a few tiles apart since Asoka was so close and our little island was close as well.

I'm sorry, I left the empire in a state of disrepair. The end of the turnset snuck up on me and I was trying to figure out what to do. My bad.... I hope I didn't screw us too bad.


Also with Diplo, I've found out that if you didn't have a tech at the beginning of a turn you can't trade for techs that it was a prerequisite for. Also trades don't seem to improve relationships during the turn as much as they do over time.

I'm sorry, I left the empire in a state of disrepair. The end of the turnset snuck up on me and I was trying to figure out what to do. My bad.... I hope I didn't screw us too bad.

It wasn't too bad - most of the issues were fixed easily when Monarchy came online - Hereditary Rule and wineries (with one wine exchanged for sugar) gave us +3 happy faces in every town, I think.

It seemed to me that most of the problems you could have solved had you had another 3-4 turns. :D

Also with Diplo, I've found out that if you didn't have a tech at the beginning of a turn you can't trade for techs that it was a prerequisite for. Also trades don't seem to improve relationships during the turn as much as they do over time.

Well, we are now trading Sugar for Wine, and Cows for Sheep (or the other way round?). I really was hoping for even a +1 modifier so that we could open borders again.

Nice set Maksim :thumbsup: The change in Civics will help a lot right now, especially with the bigger cities.

Bede - and now for someone completely confusian, up and got it
Zavior - on deck
AdmK - pacing the quarterdeck
g-man - you are up!
Tubby Rower - on deck
Maksim - got us closer to shipshape

This is great fun to watch as most of us are as confucianed as we can be! The tech tree offers us way too many choices. I gather our objective for this stage is maximum commerce.

umm, why does the roster show me and bede up :hmm:

Cause Bede boobed the c&p operation.

Sorry for the confusion.

This is great fun to watch as most of us are as confucianed as we can be! The tech tree offers us way too many choices. I gather our objective for this stage is maximum commerce.

We are next to last in technology, which does not bode well for space race. Sure, we got stuck on some backwater island with a a neighbour who's even less advanced than we are, but that's no excuse!

Maximizing commerce, so we can afford a higher science rate is paramount. I don't think getting Optics is that important anymore - everyone's ahead of us in techs, so the trade opportunities will be limited.

I would suggest a program of rapid growth coupled with producing just enough military units to keep the population happy. Ideally, the newly born citizens would be set to work grassland/floodplains cottages, so that we do not lose out on further growth, while enjoying good commerce potential.

Essential buildings are monasteries, libraries and marketplaces (in no particular order). Granaries are cheap and useful, and I've been building them a lot.

Personally, I would push for Paper-> Education/Printing Press/Liberalism. The first gives us Universities, the second adds gold to towns, and the last gives us Free Speech, and gives a free tech to get us closer to Universal Suffrage/Emancipation.

However, that does leave the original plan to go for Optics and meet our neighbours hanging in the air. If the group thinks that meeting them is more important, you may think of beelining research that way. But I would only consider it after getting Education (unless Asoka sells Machinery!).

Will post tonight but have played. The situation is nowhere as dire as you have described. Met two more near neighbors (England and Spain) and they are by no means in a tech leadership situation as near as I can tell. We have a pending deal with both and can probably unlock Machinery from Asoka with it.

I concur that pushing growth and commerce and following the tree to the learning techs is a way to go. Optics is proabably less critical now as we have discovered land and two more neighbors reachable to the NW.

Will post tonight but have played. The situation is nowhere as dire as you have described. Met two more near neighbors (England and Spain) and they are by no means in a tech leadership situation as near as I can tell. We have a pending deal with both and can probably unlock Machinery from Asoka with it.

I panic easily. The burst of andrenaline provided by panic gives me energy and concentration, which helps with the game. Plus, it's a lot more fun when you feel that everything is hanging in the air. :crazyeye:

Still, it's good to hear that we met someone else. Finally, some overseas trade, I hope!

1000-1100AD

Turn 160 (1000 AD)
Jupiter 5 grows: 10
Confucianism has spread: Delhi (Indian Empire)

Turn 161 (1010 AD)
Good news! The gospel according to Confucius reaches across the sea
Confucianism has spread: Beer
fe's Paradise finishes: Courthouse
Last Best Hope finishes: Library

Turn 162 (1020 AD)
fe's Paradise begins: Lighthouse
Last Best Hope begins: Granary
Jupiter 5 finishes: Confucian Monastery
Steak and Wine grows: 8
Steak and Wine finishes: Confucian Monastery
Pasargadae finishes: Courthouse
Susa's borders expand
Contact made: Spanish Empire
Beer finishes: Granary

Turn 163 (1030 AD)
Jupiter 5 begins: Immortal
Steak and Wine begins: Forge
Steak and Wine begins: Worker
Steak and Wine begins: Confucian Temple
Pasargadae begins: Granary
Beer begins: Forge
Meet Isabella the Sweet. She doesn't like us much


Candy is dandy but likker is quicker so I gift her some fine wine hoping to improve her attitude

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a371/doconor/SC01/6.jpg


Persepolis finishes: Confucian Temple
Susa finishes: Granary
Arbela grows: 4

Turn 164 (1040 AD)
Persepolis begins: Courthouse
Susa begins: Forge
Susa begins: Confucian Temple
Reopen the borders with Asoka and restart the Indian conversion plan which is put on hold for a moment as the galley in the northwest continues to explore the Spanish coast.
Jupiter 5 finishes: Immortal
Last Best Hope finishes: Granary
Arbela finishes: Barracks

Turn 165 (1050 AD)
Jupiter 5 begins: Confucian Missionary
Last Best Hope begins: Forge
Arbela begins: Immortal
Immortal promoted: Combat I
Jupiter 5 grows: 11
Pasargadae finishes: Granary
Taoism founded in a distant land

Turn 166 (1060 AD)
Pasargadae begins: Forge
The wine did the trick and Isabella has lifted her skirts. We now have Open Borders and a sight of new borders to the west.
Tech learned: Theology
Steak and Wine finishes: Confucian Temple


Turn 167 (1070 AD)
Research begun: Paper
Steak and Wine begins: Confucian Missionary
Contact made: English Empire
Sailing into Isabella's waters gets us a date with Elizabeth of England
fe's Paradise begins: Confucian Missionary
The two ladies are willing to deal for Construction which Asoka lacks. Lizzie appears to offer the most attractive pricing though.

Jupiter 5 finishes: Confucian Missionary
Arbela finishes: Immortal

Turn 168 (1080 AD)
Jupiter 5 begins: Forge
Arbela begins: Courthouse
Persepolis grows: 10
Arbela's borders expand

Turn 169 (1090 AD)
Construction can still be purchased for Code of Laws though both Izzy and Liz have learned Literature
Last Best Hope finishes: Forge
Susa grows: 6

Turn 170 (1100 AD)
Last Best Hope begins: Confucian Monastery
Immortal promoted: Combat I
There is a settler and a missionary on the way to the island to put our last town down on the hill above the coastal resource.
Tech learned: Construction
Dialed up Liz and do the deal trading Code of Laws for Construction which helps us not at all with Asoka, who by the way does not know the neighbors though that may change as soon as he puts another galley in the water.
Then make a trade of one of our many cows for some of Isabella's gems and she goes from being annoyed to cautious. This will also help us with our happiness as we have forges coming on line in a lot of places to pace the growth being driven by the granaries.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a371/doconor/SC01/7.jpg

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a371/doconor/SC01/8.jpg

The two ladies are very friendly towards each other while being rightly cautious of us. Asoka is a member of the Good Old Boys Club and is pleased with our relationship.

The tech trading was probably less than optimal as Costruction is of little value to us right now. But it appeared to me based on what the ladies were up to in the last three turns that I should get what value I could from Code of Laws as they picked up Feudalism and Literature right quick. There should be a third party in the fog up there for that kind of advances to be taking place. It may yet prove useful in unlocking Machinery from the Indian, though.

Life is good and getting better on the Persian isle. Research is well on its way towards Paper, the Great Library looks to complete in Serenity Valley, and the economyis improving with every courthouse that goes up. We may get there yet!

Roster check:

AdmK - up
Zavior - swapped to the Adm and maybe with
g-man - depending on Zavior's schedule, on deck
Tubby Rower - coped with the course change
Maksim - got us closer to shipshape
Bede - Maybe not so confused

Nice to see that you got the Indian borders open again. Also nice to see that Asoka is getting Confusion.

So we don't have a galley patroling in the borders of Izzy, is that correct? Can one get there? How did we meet Liz, a unit or did Izzy trade contact?

Ok I'll stop the questions.... good jorb Bede

So we don't have a galley patroling in the borders of Izzy, is that correct? Can one get there? How did we meet Liz, a unit or did Izzy trade contact?

Reopen the borders with Asoka and restart the Indian conversion plan which is put on hold for a moment as the galley in the northwest continues to explore the Spanish coast.

I ended up using the galley at Serenity Valley as a ferry to the island for a missionary and a settler.

I have it. We will look for More Beer.

Alright Bede, point proven, see my avatar

Good job!

Bede, Construction is nice to have - it allows Aqueducts, which we'll need shortly, as our population begins to hit health limits.

And after all, every tech bought is a tech we don't have to research ourselves.

Back here and ready to rumble

Feel free to just send me away. I have a nasty feeling I really messed up. whomp would be a good choice as a replacement player

everyone here is probably too young, but <insert Sgt. Shultz voice> I know nothing

1110 Igor's Wessel goes south to pick up a missionary
1120 roading
1130 trade WM with Asoka. Get a 30g bonus. Paper finishes start on learnin' (edukation)
1140 Bella demands wheat. Ok. Start market in LBH and a forge in Susa. Find More Beer
1150 J5 gets 2 merchants, starts an immortal. GL finishes in SV. Start a CH. Beer finishes forge, starts FP
1160 start National Epic in J5. Start AQ in persepolis and temple in fe paradise. Also start a lighthouse in Arbela. We meet Hatty. Sorry about the following (in retrospect, I think I really f'd up). This is the order the stuff went down in:
1. trade Hatty our WM for Archery + 10g
2. paper to izzy for music
3. theology and metal casting to hatty for Fued and 50g
4. open borders with hatty
5. wheat to hatty for dye
6. cow to hatty for spice
1170 start confused academy in Pasagassed Again. Igor the Savant is born
1180 Hatty gets a bargain: WM + 10g + HBR for our paper
1190+ not much else. I think I really f'd this up. Bede, send me a PM if you wish me to retire quietly. I feel really awful about the trades, but I didn't see the need to hold the knowledge close.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/Will_Robinson_AD-12002.Civ4SavedGame

@AK, I see no real problem here. You got us a valuable piece of knowledge and two more luxuries for the people. So keep on keepin' on.

Wait 'till you see me hose up the worker actions when we learn Machinery. :D

Roster check:

Zavior - back and up
g-man - on deck
Tubby Rower - coped with the course change
Maksim - got us closer to shipshape
Bede - Maybe not so confused
AdmK - doing his mea culpas but has been shriven

Playing this tomorrow

be gentle on the criticism of the previous player

1200 AD
I use igor the savant to build academy in jupiter 5.
Building cottages and farms all over the place.

1220 AD
Last Best Hope market -> Confusion temple

1240 AD
Education comes in. Start on machinery.

1250 AD
We meet incas

1270 AD
Isabella cancels our open borders.
Missionary makes our last non-confused town confused.

1280 AD
Machinery comes in, began on printing press.

please auto skip me until 12/27/05

Missed Zavior's post so here's the roster, late.

Roster check:

g-man - up!
Tubby Rower - coped with the course change
Maksim - got us closer to shipshape
Bede - Maybe not so confused
AdmK - doing his mea culpas but has been shriven
Zavior - back and up

right, will try to get it done tomorrow.

Hi, all!

I'm visiting parents for Christmas. Unfortunately, while their typewriter can access the Net, it is nowhere near the requirements to run Civ 4. So I have to request a skip until January 4th or thereabouts, I'm afraid.

Merry Christmas, everyone!

Merry christmas!
I'll be getting new computer tomorrow - hopefully civ will run on it without crashes!

Have fun, gents, and Merry Christmas :) I will be out of action, probably for a couple of weeks. I have family from overseas coming to visit and I don't anticipate much free time till Jan 4th.

Turn 189 (1290 AD)
Preflight check:
Research is moving good, but I think we need to shore up our defenses so I'll try to get some unit builds going.
Looks like were about 8 units under our free support limit, so we can add some more LB's to help shore ourselves up till guns come online.
Serenity Valley finishes: Forge
Persepolis finishes: Confucian Monastery
Steak and Wine grows: 11

Turn 190 (1300 AD)
Serenity Valley begins: Longbowman
Persepolis begins: University
I notice that Asoka has a settler and Archer on our island. Wonder what they're supposed to be doing?

Turn 191 (1310 AD)
Serenity Valley grows: 12
Beer finishes: Forbidden Palace

Turn 192 (1320 AD)
Beer begins: Library
Serenity Valley finishes: Longbowman
Persepolis grows: 13
Contact made: Arabian Empire

Turn 193 (1330 AD)
Serenity Valley begins: Longbowman
We meet Saladin, who is friendly with Huayna Capac but not so much with Asoka.
Also, Elizabeth requests Education but I turn here down, giving us a rep hit. I then sell her horses for pigs and 3gpt to make her a little more happy. I want Liberalism and the free tech.
Tech learned: Printing Press
fe's Paradise finishes: Forge

Turn 194 (1340 AD)
Research begun: Philosophy
Research begun: Liberalism
fe's Paradise begins: Walls
fe's Paradise begins: Barracks
Huayna Capac demands we stop trading with Elizabeth, but I refuse. Now he's even madder. I have the sense that we will be declared upon soon by someone.
No one will trade us Philosophy (Actually, only Saladin has it), so we need to research it before Liberalism. I also bump up the research slider to 80% (-20gpt, 247g in bank)
More Beer grows: 3

Turn 195 (1350 AD)
Saladin wants Paper and 60g for Optics, but I refuse.
I sign open borders with Saladin. He's not connected to our trade network yet, but hopefully this will allow relations to improve for a while too. I contemplated doing the same with Huayna, but decide not to. I also consider selling him Lit for 100g,
but I need to review the tech.
Look it over and decide to sell Lit to Huayna for 100g. We could use the gold for negative research as we're pulling -22gpt right now.
Serenity Valley finishes: Longbowman
Last Best Hope finishes: University
Pasargadae finishes: Confucian Temple
Arbela finishes: Harbor

Turn 196 (1360 AD)
Serenity Valley begins: Longbowman
Last Best Hope begins: Harbor
Pasargadae begins: Confucian Monastery
Arbela begins: Confucian Monastery
Tech learned: Philosophy
Jupiter 5 grows: 14
Last Best Hope grows: 11
Beer grows: 9
Arbela grows: 8

Turn 197 (1370 AD)
5T till Liberalism. Once that tech is in, we should trade freely again to make-up on lost time. Huayna Copac has guilds, and we could use some knights and grocers.
Tech learned: Optics
Sell Philosophy to Egypt for Optics, WM, and 130g.
Engineering is up for trade but the cost is a little too high right now. We can probably wait a few turns for it.
Last Best Hope finishes: Harbor

Turn 198 (1380 AD)
Last Best Hope begins: Caravel
Saladin completes Angkor Wat
Looks like someone has already sailed around the world
Serenity Valley finishes: Longbowman
Susa grows: 9

Turn 199 (1390 AD)
Serenity Valley begins: Longbowman
I will play 1 more turn to get us even.
Jupiter 5 finishes: University
fe's Paradise finishes: Barracks
Beer finishes: Library

Turn 200 (1400 AD)
Jupiter 5 begins: Longbowman
fe's Paradise begins: Longbowman
Beer begins: Caravel
Looks like were doing ok. I'm building a couple of Caravels so we have some sort of naval presence. We really do need to watch out for an invasion now that we're clearly the top tech dog. It wouldn't hurt us to go after a mil-tech next, but not sure which.
Gunpowder is available, or Economics (free Great Merchant). After those, we should probably go along the middle of the tree if we want to build rifles. Going along the bottom is good, technically, but we're paperthin at the moment. We need Egypt to be our Guardian Angel, but she's too far away to help and doesn't like us.
imho, we should trash the relationship with Elizabeth in order to get chummy with Egypt. Not sure how to do that, though.
Oh, and Serenity Valley can probably go back to infrastructure and we let Jupiter build MP's. If possible, we should get rid of the warriors.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v645/grahamiam/Civ4ScreenShot0038.jpg

Roster check:

(The three bears, so where is Goldilocks?)

Tubby Rower - up
Bede - Maybe not so confused
Zavior - back

AdmK - holidays until after Boxing Day
Maksim - out till the 4th
g-man - moved us right along and out of action til 2006

OK... I have to install [civ4] on my dad's computer and see if it is capable of handling the graphics. I'll report back whether or not it'll work. feel free to skip me if you ar ready to play Bede.

[civ4] won't work on my dad's computer. Please auto-skip me until next Thursday

don't dump the warriors if they have promotions. I'd rather run to Econ, send out a merchant and then upgrade.

After econ, I suggest we consider running to whatever gives us infantry. For whatever reason, i've had more success going for Inf before steam and railroads.

Since we're going for space, we need factories asap.

For discussion:
1. list 3 allies we need
2. make nice with the three (we need some discussion on how to do this)
3. IMIO, i think we need to build the UN

BTW, I snuck a look into my stocking and it appears to be full of coal. I'm blaming Tubs. :)