Zav04 - Prince, cultural 3cc! [Archive] - Civilization Fanatics' Forums

Merzbow

Nov 30, 2005, 10:37 PM

2640 BC

Preflight check

Everything looks OK. Researching monotheism via polytheism to grab Judaism. London on worker, York on obelisk.

Turn 1

Nothing.

Turn 2

Lion appears two squares away from worker (who's just finished his chop), but the worker is safe for this turn.

Turn 3

London pops worker, begins settler. New worker is sent to SE of York to chop.

Existing worker sent to chop more NE of London.

Sent York's warrior to the coast in the SE to scout a little and watch for animals.

Sent London's current warrior down to York. London is popping a new warrior next turn. Shouldn't be any barbs around this early.

Turn 4

London pops a warrior and it is fortified.

Turn 5

Our scouting warrior discovers copper on the coast! Looking good so far.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b79/merzbow4242/Zav04/Zav04_Turn1_SS1.jpg

Turn 6

Worker NE of London begins chop to help settler.

Turn 7

Worker arrives in forest SE of York, begins chop to help obelisk, which is currently at 25 turns (there's not enough forest to fund any wonder chops near York anyways, and this square is right outside York's radius so we may as well chop it).

Turn 8

Nada.

Turn 9

Worker NE of London finishes chopping, is moved next door to chop again.
Warrior reaches York, is fortified.

Turn 10

Scouting warrior finishes circling the proposed new city area. It looks great - I propose the square one tile NE of the warrior. As you can see from the shot, we would have copper, gems, and wheat in our city tiles. The fish would be outside our tiles but eventually within our cultural borders.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b79/merzbow4242/Zav04/Zav04_Turn1_SS2.jpg

Worker SE of York finishes chop and York produces obelisk. I set it on barracks since I don't see anything better at the moment. I send the worker to the hill SE of York with the intent of starting a mine. We shouldn't chop any forests inside York's radius because it will need the health, not being next to freshwater.

Turn 11

Worker SE of York starts mine.

Turn 12

Zilch.

Turn 12

Crap, Judaism founded elsewhere. We've missed all the early religions. We should have beelined for Hinduism at the start, you can always get it first on Prince. I switch from monotheism to writing via priesthood. After starting on writing we should chop for the Oracle around our third city and then grab CoL for Confucianism. The two great prophet points that come with Oracle aren't optimal, but we need to plan for the worst and work toward grabbing Confucianism and one of the later religions. We shouldn't assume that any religion we don't found will spread to us because Tokugawa may keep his borders closed the whole game.

London pops settler, will pop warrior next turn. I begin moving him to my proposed third city position. by way of York. At York he will pick up York's warrior as escort. I send London's warrior to York to relieve York's warrior eventually.

Worker NE of London finishes chopping. I send him to chop the remaining forest in the NE to help with our third and last worker, which I put in London's build queue.

Warrior in south notices barb warrior next door, fortifies in jungle.

Turn 13

Unbelievable. Our jungle-fortified warrior in the south loses against the barb warrior. Looking at the log, it appears that the barb warrior was already promoted. I should have noticed and found an even better defensive position. I move York's warrior one square SE on top of the hill containing our mining working to serve as lookout and guard. He fortifies.

London pops warrior, which fortifies, and begins work on worker.

Worker NE of London begins chop.

Turn 14

Settler reaches York.

Worker SE of York finishes mine. Not much for him to do now... I start walking him to a hill SE of London to start another mine.

Turn 15

Due to the now twice-promoted barb running around out there I want to take two warriors with our new settler. I switch York from barracks to warrior and micro the town so the warrior will pop in 3. The settler cools his heels in York for the time being. (He's given some walking-around money to explore the local brothels and ale-houses).

Worker NE of London finishes chop.

To next player

The warrior one square north of York should move to York and wait a turn for York's warrior to pop, then both should join with the settler and head out. Up to you to do what you wish with our two idle workers. I also highly suggest you put York on another warrior after this one pops and keep it micro'd so it pops in three. The barbs are getting antsy.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b79/merzbow4242/Zav04/Zav04_Turn1_SS3.jpg

And thus ends my first SG turn ever... if I made any egregious faux pauxs let me know. :D

Zavior

Dec 01, 2005, 04:53 AM

Bad luck with Judaism, well, we will get religion eventually.

Zavior --
Merzbow -- Just played
AndrewN -- Up now
Liquidated

AndrewN

Dec 01, 2005, 05:28 AM

Got it. Playing later.

Liquidated

Dec 02, 2005, 02:34 AM

Nice mix of resources so far. a little bit of lots of things.

Cheers!
-Liq

Merzbow

Dec 03, 2005, 01:44 AM

Still around Andrew?

Zavior

Dec 03, 2005, 03:43 AM

Heading for skip soon :o

Liquidated

Dec 03, 2005, 04:54 AM

let me know if he's skip, I normally start civving 10 pm pst when the house is quiet and anti-civvers sleep.:goodjob:

Cheers!
-Liq

Zavior

Dec 03, 2005, 09:00 AM

Liquidated, its yours now.

Liquidated

Dec 03, 2005, 07:35 PM

ok I'll get home around 11 pm pst tonight so expect turns to post um 3 am ish. At work so cannot look at save but assume this as my "got it" kinda =)

Cheers!
-Liq

Liquidated

Dec 04, 2005, 01:46 AM

2040 BC preflight
ok so we have a settler in York and no costal towns... hmmm
ok so we want to secure that bronze thinking two tiles south of the bronze... that nets us in city radi

A. coastal loc and not overlapping York city radius
B. Gems and bronze new, corn for trade and productive tile
C. no dye or those pigs nor is that fish salavgable
D. 1 lost forest due to plunking city on it. =/
E. lot of jungle to clear =/
F. no rivers close so food is gonna suck until civil service.
G. has a ton of production value stored in those hills.

Not many choices to secure bronze in the least amount of time so I go for it.

move the warrior on mine to escort settler.

[1]2000 BC London culture bounds into york... hills worker is on begins mine. need one more bounce to hit the stone. Not looking as if it's gonna take long.

[2]1960 BC start on mine for london. toga is east of nottingham so it starts.

[3]1920 BC York hits unhealthy at size 3........ nottingham has a barb pop on it as I make it.... nice.
Start on an obolix in 10 so it can work some food tiles.toku is east of nottingham, so it starts.
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/liquidated/tokusucks.jpg

[4]1880 BC nottingham wins. worker done in london... not much to make right now. start on a barracks so it can grow.
hmm research finishes on priesthood and starts on writing??? uh not sure wtf, looking over thread again.. I don;t get this grab for code of laws in that we haven't activated half our resources yet as we are lacking vital techs... uh well ok 14 turns not too bad I guess.

york pops and marble is gtg rush worker from london over...

[5]1840 BC york mine is done so move that worker on marble.

[6]1800 BC two workers on marble start it, done in 3. Same turn york finishes barracks.

[7]1760 BC barbs approach the marble yay. move a warrior over to defend.

[8]1720 BC barbs move away... nice. marble is done... needs a road lol

[9]1680 BC move york to oracle in 19 turns barbs in the way of a forest chop out of city radi, need all 5 forest in york radi for the 2 health. gonna try the one to the NE of york. move other warrior to the forest west of nottingham as it will soon be toku's forest...

[10]1640 BC barbs goofing around marble still... not safe for one warrior to protect workers. left him fortified on marble.

[11]1600 BC stalling worker NE of york to finish chop AFTER writing comes in.

[12]1560 BC no idea where that barb went... GRRR.

[13]1520 BC 3 turns on wrting. nott finished obolix so hmm start on a barracks as operation take a forest from toku is only 2 turns away...

[14]1480 BC ug ok 2 turns left on chop and 2 on writing. I messed that up so hit cancel need to baby sit this so will take a 16th turn, liq's bad. 14 turns on oracle

[15]1440 BC writing next turn gonna take it since one turn left on chop and it must be after next turn to manually restart it.

[16]1400 BC Writing done change from code of laws to agrilculture, chop forest, oracle needs 8 turns to complete, moved a worker to bronze to start mining the moment it can.

Nab code of laws with oracle and make sure you grab wheel after agil... we need to hook up those resources. the forests around nottingham = 2 health... do not cut any. need archers as well after roads.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/liquidated/Details.jpg
hmm toku expanded east not north, those elephants are free still... maybe rush a settler to the red dot. rivers and hills oh my!

sorry about 16 turns but least turn ends on even year.
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/liquidated/Cultureshot.jpg

Cheers!
-Liq

Zavior

Dec 04, 2005, 04:48 AM

Zavior
Merzbow
AndrewN -- Giving you 12 hours to post got it.
Liquidated

Merzbow

Dec 04, 2005, 12:25 PM

Nice turns... remember that we're doing 3CC challenge so we can't found anymore cities - we can only keep what we flip. Perhaps our biggest medium-term challenge is gonna be health and growth given the lack of fresh water. The good news is it looks like our only neighbor is gonna be Toku, so if we make friends with him we likely don't have to worry about being invaded because he rarely gives Open Borders.

Liquidated

Dec 04, 2005, 10:57 PM

3cc right was late forgot how to think past, "where the holy hell that barb go now????"

there's a barb to the west such that do not send any workers out there for chops.

keep in mind that both non fresh water towns have 5 forests in their radi... that nets them the 2 health that would have been given by a fresh water start.

do not chop those forests!!!! hehe

Cheers!
-Liq

Zavior

Dec 05, 2005, 05:33 AM

We need to get as much pop as possible to support artists - we will eventually have to chop them.

I'm playing later today.

Merzbow

Dec 05, 2005, 10:55 AM

We're probably gonna have to run a chain of farms down from London once we get civil service (unless there's a river to the east we haven't uncovered yet).

Zavior

Dec 05, 2005, 12:07 PM

True. We also need cottages down there. I really should try to get time for this o_O

Zavior

Dec 05, 2005, 01:50 PM

Hmm, where is the save?

Liquidated

Dec 05, 2005, 04:38 PM

make a beeline for civil for sure. forests are .4 per health wise so 5 or 3 for +2 or +1 health respectively.

Just saying for now, they are all that's keeping york healthy... we are fresh water scarce.

graineries and roads for sure. keep in mind we'll have a corn to trade...

Cheers!
-Liq

Zavior

Dec 05, 2005, 05:33 PM

We all would really like to have a save file :)

Liquidated

Dec 05, 2005, 06:04 PM

oh hmm what the heck... gotta say Liq wake up, my bad :mad:

sooooo very sorry, been a bad work week:worship:

cheers!
-Liq

Zavior

Dec 06, 2005, 05:11 AM

Not much to write about.

Oracle finished, took CoL. We found confucianism, now we just need to spread it. We also got wheel, acriculture and currently researching animal husbandry. Nottingham¨'s borders expanded and grabbed gems and corn. Built some mines and some other worker actions there.

Liquidated

Dec 06, 2005, 05:38 AM

thinking we can use a 3rd or 4th worker, start linking cities up and finish mining and such.

London is 5/5 size/happy, need to stop growth there until we can get some happiness going with those gems and a temple. two workers would help both ends of the problem.

Solid start, lets hope we have coal and oil close.

Cheers!
-Liq

Merzbow

Dec 06, 2005, 02:06 PM

Looks like I'm up. Will most likely play tonight. We should have a third worker (at least that's what I had London building when I last left). Toku is gonna be a tough cookie to crack. We want to eventually convert him to Confu, but we can't use missionaries due to no Open Borders. However, if we can get a road built to one of his roads on the border that would help it to spread. Something to watch for.

Zavior

Dec 06, 2005, 02:17 PM

Zavior
Merzbow -- Currently playing
AndrewN -- Any signs of activity?
Liquidated

Merzbow

Dec 07, 2005, 01:04 AM

Preflight check:

Everything looks OK.

Turn 1:

Going for Animal Husbandry for da pigs.

Meet Saladin. He's Jewish and pissed, maybe because we have so many pigs.

Hit avoid growth on London, micro for max production while we are at our happiness limits. I put it on library.

Send Nottingham worker to mine and hook up our gems.
London worker is roading the corn.

Turn 2:

York worker finishes rice, tell him to road to Nottingham. We'll need to road up these cities to make use of the gems.

We're first in score (for the time being).

Turn 3:

Nada.

Turn 4:

Nottingham worker reaches gems, realize I can't clear the jungle without IW. Grr. I'll just road it for now and also the corn and copper.

Micro York to grow faster - we can go slow with the temple there, we're nowhere near 5 population yet.

Turn 5:

Capac wants Open Borders, sure.

Turn 6:

Nada.

Turn 7:

Nada.

Turn 8:

Learn Animal Husbandry, go for Alphabet. We know 3 civs now so I believe we'll be able to pimp CoL for several times its value in total.

Nottingham library->warrior. Barb warrior on horizon, we need some defense.

Turn 9:

Toku finishes off the barb warrior for us. Thanks bud.

Nottingham warrior -> temple.

In a fit of boredom I rename Nottingham's two warriors after the two members of the Insane Clown Posse:

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b79/merzbow4242/Misc/history_1.jpg http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b79/merzbow4242/Misc/history_2.jpg

London library -> Parthenon. We have marble which needs roading.

I notice now that London's worker was auto-set to road the corn to a point between London and York, bypassing London? Odd. Tell it to road to the marble and York, then we'll road to London.

Turn 10:

Nada.

Turn 11:

Begin mining our now roaded copper.

York temple -> library.

Turn 12:

Nada.

Turn 13:

Nada.

Turn 14:

Road to Nottingham corn finished, move worker up in anticipation of roading York's pigs.

Turn 15:

Begin roading pigs.

Worker finished copper mine, I send him to pasture the pigs.

To next player:

Next turn the marble will be roaded, but London still needs to be roaded. Shouldn't take more than two or three turns. Then we'll have a good shot at the Parthenon.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b79/merzbow4242/Zav04/Zav04_Turn2_SS1.jpg

Liquidated

Dec 07, 2005, 02:34 AM

hmm 1 am, let me wake up a bit(not kidding rofl), read your log in depth and I'll get the save out before any of you wake up!

I'll just assume andrew is out til he makes a peep.

DON'T FORGET THE SAVE LIQ <--------------

there, a mental note for me.

edit: see? the pig reference completely blanked me for a good 5 seconds... need to wake up! Fun read merz.

Cheers!
-Liq

Kylearan

Dec 07, 2005, 03:35 AM

Hi,

you have stone and marble? :eek: Wow, that's a nice start! :goodjob:

I hope you don't mind some comments from a lurker...

- I noticed you were building obelisks. Normally, they are not worth the hammers, as their culture won't be there for long and there are other buildings that provide culture and do something useful as well (temples, libraries...). I've found I'd prefer anything else of obelisks, even use the time to build some military (especially in a 3CC!)

- Having Toku as neighbour might get...interesting. :p Be sure to have enough military all the time, even if that means delaying culture a bit longer! Better to have less culture than be dead... Most probably, you won't be able to get an open borders agreement with him, so you won't be able to convert him to a religion of your choice. Consider to convert to his religion instead at some point in time, and convert other AIs to that...

Good luck, this will be interesting to watch! :)

-Kylearan

Liquidated

Dec 07, 2005, 05:43 AM

500 BC preflight looking good Note to myself that london is indeed on avoid growth.. one change I make is I move work in london from lake to the last hill. that shaves 6 turns off partion and adds one to alphabet. Imo worth it for the push.

hehe york is owning london in culture... love it.

Not too much nottingham can be helped right now need Ironworking for those jungles.

[1]475 BC Move worker from marble to finally road london to the rest of the world excitement.

[2]450 BC roads and pigs, roads and pigs...

[3]425 BC We get Moses, the great merchant, er NO! he's just a profit! pretty nobrainer to make the king kong so I do that and we go from -2 gold a turn to... even! difference in 90% research to 100 is 0 and -3 gold... I leave it at 90.

London has marble hooked up, time on panth is 12! now.

notice capac has hindu and saladin has jud.... make a note to start extending roads to Toku so confus will spread maybe. will do that before hooking up london's pigs since not needing the extra work tile quite yet.
rofl just saw that the new road on south pigs hooks us and toku together.... ok no rush.

[4]400 BC hahahahaha Tokyo AND Osaka get confucism... nice nice.. he should adopt our creed soon enough.
move north worker over to road/pasture the pigs near london.

South pigs are all in a blanket... move that worker over to more directly road up Tokyo and us then steal an uncultured forest of his for parthion. Toyko isn;t gaining culture yet so got time.

we are gaining +2 gold now/turn from the shrine rofl. Thanks for choosing confusism toku!

[5]375 BC Nottingham finishes temple yay. upkeep is -3 a turn looking over it's options, needs to grow so a worker is not that great an idea and not much else other than walls and a courthouse or an axeman.... go for the axeman seeing as we have two insane clowns in nottingham. Courthouse was tempting but a 4 turn axeman is good. +6 culture a turn a nottingham it's gonna bounce next turn annoying toku... hehe.

London gets confused which allows me to turn growth back on! yay! pigs otw but we are still not hurting on tiles to work. Good start area, nice mix of shields and toast with a bit of coin thrown in.

Toku converts to confusion! lets try and sneak an open borders!

micro nottingham a bit to work the coper tile over forest, the exta production will not hurt.

not sure what the worker on south pigs can do so help the forest chop west of london then for immediate needs.

wow same religion with toku is only +1 relations, this is no izzy from spain we are talking about. dubbing open borders with toku as operation iceberg =p

[6]350 BC Machiavelli calls us the second largest civ in our known world... evidently he missed that forest I stole from toku. =p

Nottingham bonuces and is gaining 6 culture a turn... will Take pretty long til next expansion to snag silk and dye in south and contested horses that are currently neutral east at capac. notice capac is south of us as well. dispacting shaggy 2 dope on over to check it out. osaka maintains 1 space culture borders.. not sure after next culture bounce tho...

Noticed london was auto working un improved pigs with the extra population that we got this turn.... sigh, move that tile over to the lake again to cut a turn from alphabet and slow growth to 31 turns.

Tokyo gains confus... we are not +4 gold/turn up and can run 100% science even.. leave it on +4 to recoup our Slush fund.

leaving avoid growth in london OFF fyi. <--

[7]325 BC Nada. shaggy 2 dope is exploring.

[8]300 BC axeman in nottingham, leave it unpromoted... courthouse is 9 turns, go for it.
Confusion spreads to ainu for the +1 coin! also souts the area south of us just fine.

tokyo expanded ,pushing the workers off that forest, oh well almost.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/liquidated/7989cc1a.jpg
opps osaka just lost two tiles from nottingham the only 2 workable tiles it has... hmm. This could be uncomfortable.... we need archers. -2 from close borders from toku... good thing he;s confused.

change from alphabet in 6 to hunting in 3... need to beef up defence.

Fire up another axeman in nottingham ditching the courthouse. 3 turns an axeman. will farm them out to york and london.

[9]275 BC spend the +10 strength on shaggy, a medic warrior is always nice if he can snag another 1 exp point.
gang up on londons's pigs with all three workers and search for crap to do....

All low priority, road bananas, develop london's area (no pottery). road those mines around london, link up the stone that will be workable in um.... roughly 22 turns if we land parth which is due in 6 turns...

move from corn to pigs... gain an extra food.

Bump science up to 100% and at +1 gold/turn with 77 in the slush... need to push on the defense.

[10]250 BC Capac cancels open borders, he's still annoyed..

Looks like it's gonna be a rough start, so many hateful people.

York Finishes library.. walls or an axe... opt for walls in 7 mm'ing hills would bring that down to 5 turns but growth goes from 3 turns to 9... york can use one more population currently so long term working 2 food/ one hammer is better than 4 hammers now.

[11]225 BC hunting comes in giving us spears... yay I think. axeman are the way to go against capac. archers a gogo in 3, the extra reseach saved off a turn I think. I'll be able to start ironworking before my turn is up... good.

Nottingham finishes it's second axeman and starts on walls in 4 for nottingham. Queue up a 3 axeman to boot. it's pop 5 now so move off forest onto other hill to pump up the hammers, stalling growth which wasn;t too hot working the forest. 3 turns on walls now.

I'll be able to start ironworking before my turn is up... good.

Set the workers on long roading tasks for idle time. more roads linking our towns is good.

move the new axeman up to York.

First sign of a horse and switch to a few spearmen.

[12]200 BC No news is good news. osaka and it's remaining tiles are still 100% japanese.

[13]175 BC York is size/happy 6/6 health 7/7, leave some food surplus up on york since no grainery means instant size 5 if they lose a food tile.

[14]150 BC Archery comes in yay. I'll detail my logic on axes and bows at end. Start on iron working... we need to see if we have iron yes but we also need to clear out nottingham and hook up those gems. 9 turns at 100% science.

Nottingham finishes wall, flood of axemen begins. add another to the queue.... only 6 jungle tiles in nottingham so not that bad, the forest makes it look much worse. Those 5 forest are major to keep.
We have trade connections with saladin finally...

[15]125 BC ***SCORE***
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/liquidated/5e3fb109.jpg

London is now at 15 culture a turn... I queue up confused temple (6), Walls(4), Obelix(2). London will grow in 8 turns and needs the happy, Walls are a duh as well and get the ob on queue now before we forget and it obsoletes.

Merit Ptah born far away.

Summary:

Scored parth, let us never get chemistry lol. Used Moses on shrine, which is 6 gold/turn already. York and london now have wonders and are pushing 15 culture for london and 22 for york.

York is already refined... yikes, missed that.

None of our neighbors like us... capac is hindu but never founded it so if we can get borders openagain, might want to get him to confused.

No sign of saladin but of capac and toku, our closest threats.. they like eachother WTF.... not only is toku pleased with capac, they have open borders...
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/liquidated/WTF.jpg
man wtf wtf wtf.

Well saradin is annoyed with capac but they have open borders still. seems unlikely saladin will come knocking on our door to say hi.. just yet.

Capac is using his UU warriors and toku has elephants eventually. Near term get 2 or so axemen in each city then work in a spearmen. archers can wait for now, plus they do not require bronze/iron so we can pump them out wherever in war.

keep in mind Capac is spoiling for a fight.

we are over the hump in terms of cashflow can prolly leave the slider on 100% not coin the rest of the game.

moving workers down towards gems at nottingham building roads for when we get ironworking in 8.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/liquidated/f99484ce.jpg
japan shot up in terms of gold, we shot up in terms of culture, power we held our meger ground... well I improved it a wee bit...

london has an unworked corn tile for another 5 food, give it happiness and it will grow.

Techs we want...
pottery for the graineries, we have rice and corn... and's worth 2 health.

Alphabet for the tech trades.. had to switch to defense, just had to, so sorry. 4 turns left on it.

york is -2 upkeep, nottingham is -3, courthouse would be nice in nottingham but it is chaining 3/2 turn axes for now.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/liquidated/70aa683e.jpg

To Do,

finish iron working , hope to goodness we have a pop close by, we got enough hills for it.

Clear jungle and mine/road gems near nottingham.

start on clearing nottingham's other jungles. Great town, just needs some pest control.

buff up defense!! using nottingham as an axe farm... york can make a few spears and bows. I started walls in all 3 cities.

Finish alphabet.

london has an unworked corn tile for another 5 food, give it happiness and it will grow, that's why I stayed with ironworking.

adjust towns's tiles to your liking btw, there's a few borderline decisions between food buffer and production.

note that the 3 towns we have are very balanced... each is tops in one of science, commerce or hammers.

Cheers!
-Liq

posting now gonna pretty it up after just in case someone wants the save at um 5 am lolol

Liquidated

Dec 07, 2005, 05:44 AM

Lurkers own. nuff said.

Zavior

Dec 07, 2005, 05:45 AM

We need to get the cottages up and running.

Zavior
Merzbow
AndrewN -- DROPPED OUT
Liquidated
Free slot - PM me or post in this thread.

Liquidated

Dec 07, 2005, 06:27 AM

yeah cottages too, in pottery, that's a nobrainer, wanted to stress the health implictions as well, much overlooked reason I love them graineries.

Really sorry about alphabet but when capac dropped open borders, I geared for the worst.

Great call on parth, clean sweep no forest cuts.

as for the beloved lurker, my reasons for ob's are that they are so cheap and always provide that culture even after obsoleted if I recall correctly. Dunno is 5 am and have another sg to play.:crazyeye:

just curious, andrew drop out from inaction or pm?

no matter, can use a 4th for sure since we all seem to be up at all hours of the day.

Cheers!
-Liq

Zavior

Dec 07, 2005, 06:33 AM

No problem with the military - we were lacking it.

Merzbow

Dec 07, 2005, 04:27 PM

Nice finish on the Parthenon. I'll pay more attention to turn-by-turn micromanagement of city production next time.

We should switch from IW to Alphabet to finish it, we should easily be able to trade CoL for it. Would be amusing if we could flip both Tokyo and Osaka... preferably before Toku goes to war with us. Saladin hates infidels almost as much as Izzy, he might pose a long-term problem. I've seen as high as +7 from Capac for same religion, would be nice to manage that eventually.

One trick that can be used to convert civs that we don't have open borders with - gift a missionary to a civ that does have open borders with your target. Perhaps Capac.

Walls are probably unnecessary since they don't stack with cultural bonuses, and we should soon or already are at > 25% on cultural bonus. They are only good if you're looking to eventually build castles for the +1 cpt. If that's your goal then sure.

Ky - thanks for posting, I really enjoyed your 3CC Monarch writeup. Disagree about obelisks though, they are far cheaper than libs and if the earlier expansion allows access to higher-quality tiles you make up time overall.

I hold everyone personally responsible for the safety of Violent J and Shaggy 2 Dope. :D

Zavior

Dec 07, 2005, 10:29 PM

I'll play later today.

Liquidated

Dec 08, 2005, 12:14 AM

as far as I knew, walls combine with culture based defensive mods when that city is attacked by any unit other than a gun powder based unit...

this would include tanks and helecopters as effected I guess.

please correct me if I'm mistaken, the civlopedia is very vague on it all and I haven;t read any of the super combat mechanics posts yet.

Violent J is safe and sound mk??? lololol fun turnlog btw mertz, always entertaining whenever the insane clown posse enters the fray.

Also keep in mind I went into panic mode when capac dropped open borders.. really want to see if we have an alternate source of metal about plus nottingham needs a bunch of jungles cleared... gems and basic workable land. Our workers running out of stuff to do in york and london since we have so many food resource specials.

4 turns left on alphabet can prolly stall IW, I'll let Z figure that one out... we have much use for IW

Please feel to critique my turns tho, I'm ever learning civ4 more.

Cheers!
-Liq

Merzbow

Dec 08, 2005, 02:34 AM

100% sure walls don't combine, I justed tested this.

I just tried a private game of the same sort to practice - Prince 3CC cultural. It's tough. I won in 2009. Would have won earlier if Monte hadn't attacked me in the late 1900's and denuded my land to the stone age. I only survived because Alex and he had divided the rest of the world between them, and I got Alex to declare war on Monte right after Monte declared on me. Monte then shifted his stack of 200 infantry to deal with Alex, and only sent a bunch of knights after me, which I survived until peace 10 turns later. I have yet to figure out how Kylearan managed such an early win in his 3CC Monarch victory; he was able to hire 14 artists in a city of size 15? Odd.

Plus Gandhi declared war on me out of the blue in that game. Lots of fun to be had by everybody.

Kylearan

Dec 08, 2005, 02:41 AM

Hi,

I just tried a private game of the same sort to practice - Prince 3CC cultural. It's tough. I won in 2009.
Congrats! :goodjob:

he was able to hire 14 artists in a city of size 15? Odd.
IIRC, the city had grown when I had hired the 14 artists (forgot to what size), and I had 2 free specialists from mercantilism and the statue of liberty.

-Kylearan

Merzbow

Dec 08, 2005, 02:52 AM

Hi,

Congrats! :goodjob:

IIRC, the city had grown when I had hired the 14 artists (forgot to what size), and I had 2 free specialists from mercantilism and the statue of liberty.

-Kylearan

Ahh OK. In the last screenshots on page 5 it still shows the smaller city sizes. You seem to have a lot more farms than cottages - do you value artist specialists more than fully developed towns when going for culture? Without more towns how did you manage decent research? I wasn't even close to Mass Media when I flipped the switch in the 1800s.

Kylearan

Dec 08, 2005, 03:13 AM

Hi,

Ahh OK. In the last screenshots on page 5 it still shows the smaller city sizes.
Hm, you're right. :confused: I can't remember the exact details, but I had 12+2 specialists at some point, but I seem to remember that I've set the city on starvation for some time too, maybe it had been that. (Sorry, but I've played some games since and my memory isn't good :crazyeye: )

You seem to have a lot more farms than cottages - do you value artist specialists more than fully developed towns when going for culture?
Tricky question. For the one or two cities you want to generate great persons with, you definately need the farms to support the specialists. But on the other hand, it will hurt you economy and thus your ability to research. But you will be able to afford to hire that many specialists in the end game only anyway, so it might be good to have cottages first, and replace them with farms later.

Without more towns how did you manage decent research? I wasn't even close to Mass Media when I flipped the switch in the 1800s.
I relied on my religious shrine for income. If you spread the shrine religion to most cities on the continent, you will get a lot of income from it, making up for the lack of cottages.
And second, I relied heavily on trading. I made sure to have friends, and traded a lot for missing techs. To do this, I tried to research techs the AIs normally neglect, to get trading material. I also checked their techs regularely, and tried to go for 2fers (trade for a tech from one AI, then trade that tech to another).

I fell behind in the end, but then it didn't matter anymore. :)

-Kylearan

Zavior

Dec 08, 2005, 06:56 AM

We now know alphabet and ironworking. Working on drama, I set our cities to work on high commerce tiles for improved speed. Built few workers to help with the jungle, mined gems too. We also need to build quarry for stones.

None of the known civilizations is willing to trade with us. This can get dirty. I also built some archers, axes and spear. We might want to think about converting to some other religion - that could ease our diplomatic status.

Merzbow

Dec 08, 2005, 12:07 PM

Got it.

BTW Ky if you want take the free slot please feel free... would be great to see your skills in action.

Looks like diplomacy is going to be the near-term challenge here.

Merzbow

Dec 08, 2005, 06:24 PM

Turn 1:

Everything looks OK. Drama in 8, good. Hopefully we'll be the first to Music and that free Great Artist.

Time we got some cottages up and running, gonna focus on that.

All cities still below happiness limits. I micro York to grow in 5 instead of 20.

London will definitely be our GP factory in the future with the Parthenon and the good food production.

Not a huge fan of stacking workers like this; if the # of turns to do something doesn't divide evenly, work is lost overall.

Holy crap, Toku's cities are barely defended. Two archers each. If this wasn't a 3CC I'd be all over that. Hopefully we'll flip them someday.

Christ, everybody hates us and nobody will give us OB or trade anything. Since we have nobody else's religion there's little we can do.

Since Capac is closer we should hope to gain his trust first. I decide to give him Polytheism as a gift (gold and map trading not allowed yet). Score! He goes to cautious and we now have OB with him! He only wants Alphabet from us now so nothing more to trade, but we should work to convert him to Confu. Unfortunately we can't do the same to Saladin yet; I only have CoL and Alphabet to offer him, and the +1 gained from a gift wouldn't be enough to bring Saladin to cautious.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b79/merzbow4242/Zav04/Zav04_Turn3_SS1.jpg

Turn 2:

Tell a worker to create a cottage near York. Oh dear, we don't have Pottery? Ouch. I switch research to Pottery (in 3). In the meantime I'll quarry our stone and clear jungles.

Capac is back to annoyed for some reason. Bastard, Least we still have OB.

Man we need Organized Religion or Meditation ASAP so we can convert peeps. Gonna go for it after Pottery.

Turn 3:

London pops a scout. I'll do random scouting with him.

Turn 4:

I start Nottingham on a work boat that we can go exploring with.

Turn 5:

York pops Great Prophet. Nothing yet to do with him so I sleep him.

Pottery -> Meditation.

York on granary, health limit coming up soon.

I gift Toku Polytheism. Doesn't make a difference.

Turn 6:

London to granary for the green face.

Turn 7:

Learn Meditation, back to Drama. Interrupt York granary for monastery and stop growth, it's already at happy limit. Do same in London for the same reason.

Turn 8:

Nottingham boat -> monastery.

Workers mostly on cottages.

Turn 9:

Start sending Shaggy home, the scout is his replacement. The Wicked Clowns will be back together soon!

Turn 10:

Micro Nottingham to build the monastery faster. Food is bad here so the fastest we could grow anyway would be in 16. Decided we need missionaries faster.

Turn 11:

London monastery -> missionary.

I notice we've grabbed an iron tile from Toku! Start to road and mine it.

Turn 12:

York monastery -> missionary.

Turn 13:

We're at -8 a turn. Turn research down to 80% so we're at -1. Only 27 gold left.

Drama -> Mathematics.

Turn 14:

London missionary -> missionary. Send him off to Capac. All other cities missionaries until we convert Capac (except for Nottingham which I point toward theatre since we're at our limit of 3 missionaries now).

Turn 15:

York missionary -> theatre (at missionary limit).

Barb archer appears SE of Notthingham, send and promote Axeman to deal with him.

I gift Sally a cheap tech, Meditation. makes no difference.
I gift Capac meditation also so he doesn't cancel OB. Brings him back up to cautious.
Screw it, I gift it to Toku also. Again makes no difference, but does no harm since everyone else has it now.

To next player:

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b79/merzbow4242/Zav04/Zav04_Turn3_SS3.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b79/merzbow4242/Zav04/Zav04_Turn3_SS2.jpg

Convert Capac! Goal #1. After that I suggest siccing Capac on Saladin in a war. It looks very unlikely we're going to ever get OB with Sally. Also keep trying to win Toku's favor with gifts. Amazingly note that Toku and Capac actually have OB with each other. Nobody has OB with Sally though.

Nottingham borders will expand soon and grab us the horses tile to the E. Work it.

Focus on building LOTS OF cottages and WORKING those tiles around York and Nottingham - we're gonna need them badly, our research is already beginning to lag hard. But don't make any more cottages in London (or do for now if the workers have nothing else to do but remember that we may replace them with farms); instead, when Civil Service comes around we're going to farm the PISS out of that area and grow it big for mad artists.

Liquidated

Dec 08, 2005, 08:34 PM

ok got it, at this rate it's 2 rounds a day lol.
be a few hours til raids end.

Cheers!
-Liq

Kylearan

Dec 08, 2005, 11:59 PM

Hi,

BTW Ky if you want take the free slot please feel free...
Thanks for the invite, but I think I'll prefer the peanut gallery instead. :) I'm in 2 SGs already.

-Kylearan

Liquidated

Dec 09, 2005, 05:11 AM

preflight

notice nottingham is working hill without the bronze.. switch for the 2 extra hammers.

[1]580 AD not much going on seding 2 dope back to J.

[2]620 AD have limit of missonaries at london so start on theatre in 3.
start on the last jungle in nottingham's center. cottages next.

[3]640 AD nottingham finishes theatre and lok at city screen... nott is running -4 gold in upkeep so dial up a couthouse in 10

spread confused to machu piccu in first try... gg er are even gold now at 80%

[4]660 AD peter says hola. trade him drama and code of laws for monarchy sailing and monotheism...

we are at our limits for happy so revolt into hereditary rule and organized religion.

convert cuzco to confused. 2 for 2 so far.

[5]680 AD even costs at 80% with new civics.

confusion auto spread to basra due to sailing.. that's one of sally's towns. nice.

turned off stop growth and cranked up the food by working the corn in london.

[6]700 AD

London theatre-> missonary
York theatre-> missonary

+1 gold/turn

[7]720 AD should be no problem getting capac to attack sally in that the two are completely intertwined.

[8]740 AD mathmatics comes in. peter already has music... so... civil service in 26.

3 for 3, Confusion spreads to tiwanku via 3rd missonary.

[9]760 AD
london missonary -> grainery in 2

Capac converts to confusion!!!!! yay

[10]780 AD
york missonry -> grainery in 4

[11]800AD
london grainery -> ? steering away from the great profit wonder as we want to keep london pure artist. so aquiduct in 6.

find a barb town in SW

[12] 820 AD
nottingham courthouse -> lighthouse in 4

nottingham expands netting us those horses (barely) and the dye in sw which needs calendar for those dyes sooo...

trade capac our code of laws for his calendar and we are at pleased with him.

[13]840 AD
oo oo just noticed fish are in range now. change nottingham to a workboat in 3.
peter is pleased with us so get open borders with him... time to ship missonaries over.

[14]860 AD
york grainery -> courthouse in 12

taoism was founded far away by peter

[15]880 AD ok well first thing is culture moved onto the sugar so we can farm that... workers all have stuff to do tho so.. Z gets to work on it.

Also found another town of capacs and spread confusion there. name is olli something or other. 4 for 4, amazing.

missonary is 3 turns from coriwhatever to the north..

we have open borders with peter so the moment we can reach him can flood him. toku is blocking one end sally the other coast. Also peter founded taoism so he;ll prolly want to stick with that.

civil in 13 to start farms and no other civ we know has it so good trade.

money is steady flowing in... 90% is +1 gold/turn.

boring turn in a way but really improved relations all around.

Cheers!
-Liq

Merzbow

Dec 09, 2005, 12:00 PM

Awesome turn. Keep those missionaries coming so we can lock down all of Capac's cities.

We really need a second religion... I suggest saving the Great Prophet sleeping in York and using him to grab Divine Right (if Islam hasn't been founded yet). We should wander over to the prereqs for DR as soon as feasible.

Let's also see if we can grab some more cultural wonders for London - Sistene, Notre Dame.

Liquidated

Dec 11, 2005, 01:20 AM

just an FYI. We have a missonary close to coriwhatever, which is the last incan city without confusion. If it fails then make another missonary, otherwise their job is done.

Cheers!
-Liq

Zavior

Dec 11, 2005, 08:16 AM

Playing this tomorrow

Merzbow

Dec 13, 2005, 12:14 AM

Zav do you want to take a skip?

Zavior

Dec 13, 2005, 04:58 AM

Yeah skip me, I'm sorry I didn't post here. I had some rl issues yesterday afternoon, and will have same today.

Liquidated

Dec 13, 2005, 06:27 AM

np Z about the delay. :)

I'm assuming you are up mertz, just to stress.. capac is nearly completely confused... I even shipped two missonaries to his island town. if last miss takes he's done.

Cheers!
-Liq

Merzbow

Dec 13, 2005, 10:25 PM

Turn 1:

Pleased with Capac, sweet. It's looking like we'll have few military worries this game as long as we keep him happy because he blocks us off from everyone except Toku (assuming we continue to stay cordial with Toku). Still we should keep an eye on anyone else who does achieve OB with Toku or Capac because they can reach us (albeit via a long march only).

We're +4 with Peter for good trade relations due to Liq's initial trades. Nice. Saladin is willing to convert to Confu but doesn't have enough Confused people yet. If only we could get OB with him. Grr. We need to get a +4 for trade relations with Capac eventually, but I'm not ready to start gifting him techs yet as he only wants Alphabet.

Islam is only religion that's not founded yet. We want this religion and can use our stored GP to nab Divine Right, but need Theology as a prereq. Somebody obviously has Theology because Xian has been founded, but nobody has it in their trade window so I can't tell if getting Civil Service would allow us to trade for it. We can't risk losing Islam so I switch from Civil Service to Theology in 14.

Can we micro anything to get Theology sooner? I bump the science slider up to 90% for Theology in 12. I conscript scientists in a couple of cities to bring it down to 9 - cities are still growing, but with less hammers for now (which is OK for the moment because there's nothing really important to build and our military is fine).

Put York on a 'duct instead of courthouse - courthouse not needed yet with maintenance of only 2. I want the 'duct so I can go for Hanging Gardens in York eventually.

Nottingham workboat to... galley? I don't see why. I skip to lighthouse.

All our cities are deleriously happy. No worries there.

Turn 2:

:sleep:

Turn 3:

Farm fish in Nottingham. Workers doing various things (banana, dyes, mines, farms, the usual). Confuse unpronouncable, Capac's last city.

London Aqueduct -> Spearman. Nothing better to build there.

Peter is willing to war with Saladin if only we can get a good tech to bribe him with.

I gift Toku Monarchy and he's now Pleased with us. Score! I grab OB with him and he's now willing to trade! I am a veritable Richard Nixon opening up China and crap kinda guy. I trade him CoL plus 10 gold for Construction. I don't trade him Drama because I want his cultural borders to suffer from lack of theatres. :devil:

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b79/merzbow4242/Zav04/Zav04_Turn4_SS1.jpg

Turn 4:

Our first Great Artist, Thespis, is born in London. I sleep him.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b79/merzbow4242/Zav04/Zav04_Turn4_SS2.jpg

Turn 5:

:sleep:

Turn 6:

My Scout reveals a new Capac city without Confu, so London goes to missionary after popping a Spearman this turn.

I debate giving Saladin more gifts to butter him up but I've learned that getting + to trade relations with a civ everyone hates will get you 'trading with the enemy' modifiers from your allies - and ours hate his guts as much as we do. Saladin is doomed to be our permanent enemy I'm afraid.

Hey interesting! Capac now has OB with Sally. I'm gonna try the strategy of GIFTING confu missionaires to Capac so he can use them to convert Sally.

Turn 7:

Since everyone is pleased with Peter I trade him an extra corn for 3 GPT in hopes of getting a 'supplied us with resources' modifier some years down the line.

Turn 8:

Barb archer appears SE of Nottingham. He'll be an extra promotion for our nearby axe next turn.

Turn 9:

Now that we have horses, I trade Drama to Toku for Horseback Riding and some gold. I suppose he'll get his theatres after all, but we get our Horse Archers.

Turn 10:

We get Theology. I apply our Prophet to Divine Right and switch it to. We'll have it in 6 plus Islam. I'll keep the hired scientists until we get it. There is still nothing critical to build in our cities.

Trades... I get Currency from Capac for Theology. The fool still doesn't have Alphabet! Toku won't trade any of his current techs. No fair trades we can make with Peter yet, but he doesn't have Theology.

Bump science to 100% for Divine Right in 5 instead of 6.

Turn 11:

Uh-oh... Peter is going to war with someone very soon - he adopted Vassalage.

Darn I forget that we can now explore past Toku with our OB. I starting moving the eastern scout back west and start exploring with our work boat again.

London is getting tons of farms. This is gonne be a Great Artist POWERHOUSE folks.

London missionary -> Sistene. 20 turns at max production plus there's two forests we can chop. I think we can make it.

Turn 12:

Ack... Capac goes Vassalage also.

Turn 13:

Lol Saladin Vassalage also. Either we're going to have a World War soon or this is just something the AIs always do at some point in history.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b79/merzbow4242/Zav04/Zav04_Turn4_SS3.jpg

Turn 14:

Our missionary reaches Capac and I gift it. Let's see if he actually does anything with it. From what I read he will usually convert his own cities first and then other cities, but in retrospect I should have just used it myself on one of his remaining cities (another has been revealed by borders that we need to convert).

Turn 15:

Islam we get! Mohammed Jihad! Back to Civil Service.

I take the scientists off all our cities for da grow and da hamma. Keep our slider at 100%.

I trade Divine Right to Peter for Feudalism and Literature.

I don't trade anything with Capac yet because I want to reserve the right to bribe him to go to war if it becomes necessary, heh.

Turn 16...?:

Bite me... somebody just built the Sistene. I put London on missionary instead because I see yet another Capac city without Confu - and if we let Saladin covert him to Judaism (which Sally's been trying hard to do given the number of Jewish cities now in Incan lands) we lose the game.

Most of Toku's empire revealed now... his SMALL empire. Boy did he ever draw the short stick.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b79/merzbow4242/Zav04/Zav04_Turn4_SS4.jpg

Well that's odd... remember that missionary I gifted to Capac? Somehow it's back wandering our lands again. Dunno what he plans to do with it.

Spread Islam in London. Needs to be spread to Nottingham also. York is the holy city.

Strange... my log indicates I've played 16 turns but F8 info tells me it's been 15 (286 turns left at end-of-turn from Liq's save, now it's 271 turns left at end-of-turn). Whatever.

To next player:

First priority is again to keep Capac Confu. He has a couple of new and revealed cities that need confusing. WE DO NOT want Saladin to claim him for Israel - err, Mecca. I've also found that Toku has a bunch of unconverted cities. Either way we should probably always have one city building a missionary in the near future.

As soon as Civil Service comes in, revolt to Caste System and Bureaucracy and start hiring artists in London.

We're still good on military in comparison to our neighbors, and our diplomatic relations are good also. But consider finding time to either build more units or ratchet down the slider for some upgrade cash (archers to longbow).

Consider gifting Capac Divine Right to get close to +4 trade relations. Then he'll be friendly and probably a tech or two later we could bribe him to war with Saladin. But only if you don't think he'd lose... :blush:

What else... build National Epic in London of course. Get Islamic temples and monasteries going.

I've got two workers on auto road spam. Do with them as you please.

Oh, and world peace. Unless we can convince somebody to declare on Saladin, then may the blood flow in rivers.

Liquidated

Dec 13, 2005, 11:33 PM

FYI, galley was to scout and ship a few missonaries to peter...

I figured we'd get open borders with one of sally or taku sooner rather than later.

no matter. Nice turns and use of gp for the push.

since only 3 of use, Z next or me?

I'm thinking staging a proxy war with sally would be a good idea, not sure how much push capac needs though.

Cheers!
-Liq

Merzbow

Dec 14, 2005, 12:19 AM

We should start thinking about when we want to throw the culture switch. I think we should plan on doing so after we get Liberalism and whatever the tech is for Redcoats (Rifling?) This should happened around 1600 at the latest I think.

Liquidated

Dec 14, 2005, 05:28 AM

yes what techs do we need absolutely?

redcoats are a 2 tech detour.... gunpowder and rifling... uh let me get to that later.

as for final civics:

None of the government civics really help too much as far as I can tell...
*happiness is not an issue with culture slider up
*representation's research is not needed
that leaves universal sufferage which needs democracy... uh? how useful are the extra hammers at towns?

Legal hands down is free speech from liberalism for the culture bonus... that one is easy.

Labor I assume is caste for the artist specs, that one is early tech.

Economy is freemarket from economics. the extra trade route is good, a few techs are needed for it though.

Pacifism is cheap cheap cheap in terms of research reqs and upkeep.

So the central question is with 3 CC, we cannot push the cottages nearly as much as we could with extra cities to build them up.

Same applies to the ability to buy units... ALL of our money must come directly from our core cities such that every commerce directed from culture directly impacts our Victory conditions..

on the converse, skipping democracy means not having to research 2 late game techs; Constitution, and Demoncracy.

(want the national wonder from nationalism though correct?)

With those wrinkles, is getting democracy really that important to us?

ok so the central question... what techs we need....

liberalism needs education

gun powder needs education or guilds.... screw guilds I guess.

rifling is a giant research pit
needs gun powder ok fine we need something decent to defend
needs replacable parts....
replaceable means those forests can get lumber mills

replacable parts needs banking and printing press.
printing press nets +1 commece on towns and villages... that's good.
banking nets us... well nothing we need as banks effect cash not raw commerce but required for economics which is freetrade civic.

banking needs currency (np)

and guilds.... ARGGG.

Redcoats(16/+25% mounted and gunpowder) own musketmen(9 str) though so just grin and bear it? Redcoats have a weaknesst to grens as well but least they are much better able to handle them as opposed to generic riflemen. Then again I'm just assuming redcoats count for the grens' rifleman bonus.... never really dug into UU's vs. base type.

some food for thought.

Cheers!
-Liq

Liquidated

Dec 14, 2005, 06:03 AM

btw I'm floored by the screen of toku pleased...:lol:

he's a bastage when it comes to diplo.

If Z doesn;t post I'll play this in about 18 hours.

Cheers!
-Liq

Kylearan

Dec 14, 2005, 06:42 AM

Hi,

btw I'm floored by the screen of toku pleased...:lol:
That's indeed priceless! Toku pleased? Open borders? :cool: Awesome! :D

Just don't let him fool you; he will attack if he thinks you have a weak military...

-Kylearan

Merzbow

Dec 14, 2005, 11:04 AM

If it's faster then screw redcoats and get Military Tradition for Cav. But our horses are in a vulnerable place, if we lose them we're screwed.

Democracy is seriously not worth the effort in a culture game. Those two civics do us no good.

Liquidated

Dec 14, 2005, 12:14 PM

Merzbow

Dec 14, 2005, 12:20 PM

military tradition is only one tech assuming you are going constitution otw to democracy....

I'd say redcoats the better deal as we get a few valuble techs on the way.

we'll see as to how much time we have. if we are hurting on techs by 1600 may just be easier to flip the culture switch.

Cheers!
-Liq

I've found in culture games that Economics, etc. can usually be picked up after the flip - remember that if we're running Representation each specialist is +beakers, and we're going to have TONS of specialists in London, so we will pick up some techs after the flip, but slowly. I'd go so far as to say that 1600 should be a rock-hard deadline for the flip; in my private 3CC Prince game I waited until 1800 for a few extra techs and BARELY won by 2009 due to amazing luck.

Liquidated

Dec 15, 2005, 03:01 AM

agree on the 1600 flip...

btw in lurker SG we got toku pleased and started open borders... you think 1.09 patched toku a bit?

Cheers!
-Liq

Liquidated

Dec 15, 2005, 08:18 AM

ok no reply from Z, I'll play 10ish... 10 if it's boring I find, a bit less or a bit more when it gets exciting, as the situation distates.

will study the save in depth.

Cheers!
-Liq

Merzbow

Dec 15, 2005, 11:10 AM

In a private game last night I had a DEFENSIVE PACT with Toku. I'm beginning to learn how to game the diplomacy system... it's an easy +4 with anyone if you just gift them stuff out of the blue. I had Monte around my finger. Every 10 turns I would bribe him to attack anyone but me.

Liquidated

Dec 15, 2005, 11:21 AM

preflight: fast heads up, using a replacement graphic I got from... http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=142672
that changed the 'gold' icon to a stack of coins and keep commerce as the default... Stuporstar's second download.

for some reason they gave cash and commerce the same icon which I just recently got around to telling the difference with regards to city structures. I highly recommend you try it out mertz in that less to remember with regards to 'is that building a commerce or a coin bonus'

Also I just wanted to stress I so very highly value SG's in that my concept of the game has progressed so very far in such a short period of time.

A complete honor to play with you both, Z and mertz.

checking out the religion scene and crash panning the screen... yet another civ bug that has me pulling out my hair lol

move the axeman SE to check up on that barb city and see toku got it...

will use first missonary on capac's town seeing as sally is juding him up.

tweak york to finish duct in one turn by dog piling the hills. gonna make the push for hanging gardens with this config.

notice that southern sugar never got roaded for the route.... will correct that np.

would like to start to work on peter to convert him to confused , but SOMEONE cancelled that galley lol.

nottingham can use some food and the corn is irragated... come on civil service.

crash lol sigh, in paranoid save mode now.

I take your advice and gift capac divine right ... for metal casting. lopsided trade in his favor. he is friendly now.

[1]1100 AD
peter comes and demands iron.. we have 2 so I tell him sure.

yorks finishes duct one turn early and start hanging in 9.

london missed sistine, well we finally got the message =)

ROFL barbs took back the town..., archer is wounded so gank and raze it with axemen for the free exp. ow axemen down to 1.0 hp will move him back to our lands before healing.

capac's gifted missonary is in japanese lands now.

crash, I installed a memory monitor and well civ eats MASS memory when it crashes I mean I lose like 1 gb of system memory to go from 70% of 2gb to 9 %... sounds liek a pretty serious memory leak there.

nope cannot get capac to declare war on saladin for free... I tried! =)

[2]1110 AD
peter and toku both start golden ages..
kyoto auto spreads confused... less work for us =)
sugar is hooked up now

crash lol

crash again

crash and again

reboot pc.

christ got to turn 10 and civ rebooted my entire pc. losing the write up...

ok well from memory, got cvil shopped it and 110 on our part to capac for machinery ... I took it because we need that tech for red coats and we are running out of time on research. 110 gold is 1.2 turns of no science.

went for music for the possible notre.

london and york are both finishing wonders

converted last of the known capac towns and we are + 13 relations with him now.

made artist as a super sepc in london

got a scientist made accad in london

revolted beur and caste keeping london on major boffo production to hammer out a few wonders.
2 jap towns are confused.. kyoto was without our direct intervention (prolly the gifted missonary) and edo via us.

mass more farms in london.

going extra turn for closure. (ya that's liq humor!)

[11]1200 AD
great library came to london
hanging gardens came to york

london to forge(4) and York forge(6) queuing up notre(16) in london to start after forge(4), I picked london because peter has music and is surely trying to build notre - london has more hammers going.

nottingham is on forge with collusus up in queue cause well it's there =p cancel if you want, only 9 turns build pre forge.

started to gut forests in nottingham for farms

try and work farms down from london to to york somehow.

research is set to nationalism for the civic change since we have a bunch of specs... VETO that if you wish.. there's more than a few VERY worthwhile techs to grab currently and since I ended on the discovery of music, it lets me off the hook of trying to figure that out lol.

need to get a galley around the cape to ship missonaries.

didn;t do a damed thing militarily =) no ones fighting anyone..

ug more jap towns on other islands.....

oh can build a confused acadamy, pick which town cafefully to balance culture.

Once again most of my screen shots were never taken.... not sure wtf is going on with civ, really no clue but this is a fresh install.

too tired of all the constant crashes to care. :p

microsoft is getting a metric ton of error reports this week! :lol:

didn;t touch military and not a single islamic anything... 3 towns converted to confusion which was the extent of my religious asperations.

wanted to get forges started more than anything which I did.

oddly peaceful game... don;t ever recall one this laid back.

your turn merz, lets alternate until Z gets back to us.

oh and rip me a new one for using the artist but have no idea sleeping him would accomplish as a 3cc game makes a golden age a waste of two super specs.

Cheers!
-Liq

Liquidated

Dec 15, 2005, 11:32 AM

the dropping of screen shots is really cheesing me off btw, makes the reports boring as all hell to read... good thing civ rebooted my pc for me so most of my report went out the window... pun intended.

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: ;)

above all keep a sense of humor and the crashes don;t bother you as much.

Cheers!
-Liq

Merzbow

Dec 15, 2005, 03:15 PM

Dude we're playing 15 turns, go back and play 4 more. :)

Anyways good set, but some pointers... ALWAYS sleep the artists until the end, we'll never know what cities are gonna be slow/fast in culture. Plus it's probably too late for an attached artist to work out to produce more than 4k culture by the time we plan to win. Pre-0AD maybe, but not now.

Also it's a given that we want ND in London - London is going to be our only city producing Great Artists (because it will have so many GP points that the other two cities will never be able to pop GP past a certain point, see the 'Great People' thread in Strategy Articles), we want all of the Great Artist points there and no points for any other type.

Nationalism for a civic change? Not sure what you mean, all it enables is nationhood which is useless for us. Would have tried to go for Liberalism first for the free tech (assuming nobody else has it) but we do need Nationalism eventually for Military Tradition so I don't have a big problem with that.

Thanks for the pointer to the gold/commerce mod, I'll check it out.

Merzbow

Dec 15, 2005, 03:17 PM

Another reason to sleep the artists until the end is to prevent the AI from noticing we're about to hit Legendary on all our cities and win the game, which will cause them to declare war. By our end date we should have 10+ artists that we'll apply at once and instantly win.

Merzbow

Dec 15, 2005, 09:26 PM

I don't have a lot of time tonight, so I'll wait a day for Liq to finish his 4 turns and/or Zav to play.

Liquidated

Dec 16, 2005, 12:36 AM

good pointers as well thanks.

first, liq was beaten down by constant crashing such that for some reason I linked nationalism for representation.... wtf indeed.:eek:

as for the sleepers, good points I will take into consideration from now on . As for the spec, I count the gp generated as well as the total culture applided as well as the beakers representation will give us, in the end that superspec will play out well imo.

the 15 turn thing threw me I admit lol rb is 20/10 and all the other sg's I participate in follow same.. my bad lol.

playing now

Cheers!
-Liq

Liquidated

Dec 16, 2005, 01:27 AM

[11] 1200 AD
change from nationalism to the path to liberalism... long run starting with philo.

[12]1210 AD
capac wants to trade compass for music... um sure.

toku threatens open borders which is not good.... so gift him divine right still lose open borders but he's at pleased.

Capac completed collossus, hehe oh well! never got to even start on it.

[13]1220 AD
saladin is annoyed with us and wants civil service... he is behind soooo many techs I say ok. cautious.. try open borders and DENIED.

[14]1230 AD
nottingham starts on forge, start on confused miss
try open borders with saladin and DENIED

[15]1240 AD
london finishes foge 15 turns on notre if we fail it to peter, we can use the coin. drop it down to 12 turns placing the artist spec to engineer and dropping work to make a priest spec for the anditional hammer...

queue up an islamic miss in york after forge(2) this is to be used to spread islam to nottingham.

london is gonna pop a great person in 2 turns.

Try open borders with saladin... 3rd times the charm!!!!!

got open borders to saladin!!!!! push missonaries to him!!!

phil is due next turn and auto path is set to liberalism... peter doesn;t seem to have paper yet so we have a shot at the free tech... a few good choices there, depending if we think we can snag redcoats in time, otherwise nationalism for the push to constitution for the representation to boost research.

please remember that londons specs are screwed up for the notre push.... also london is clsoe to happy barrier... good time to switch over to an islamic temple after notre is decided.

No crashes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

please slam liq for anything bone headed he did... I have a tough skin I can take it lol.

Cheers!
-Liq

Merzbow

Dec 16, 2005, 04:47 AM

OB with Saladin - awesome. We are the diplomancy pimpmasters. We have to be careful though that being nice with Sally doesn't hurt us with Capac... of course if we can convert him then that fixes that... but if Saladin is programmed like Isabella, it's nearly impossible to convert him. I'll try it nonetheless. If I convert most of his cities and it's still no go, then back to our original plan of getting somebody to war on him. Hopefully he isn't theocracy cuz then we have no chance of converting him.

Well, one artist superspec is OK, but we really shouldn't apply anymore. The ability to choose where to throw down 4000 culture at the end is pretty much a game-winner in culture victories. Assuming our cities are producing a generous 400 cpt near the end, each 4000 culture can save us up to 10 turns. We're only going to get maybe 10 GA in the game so we have to be careful.

Liquidated

Dec 16, 2005, 05:10 AM

Well, one artist superspec is OK, but we really shouldn't apply anymore.

Agreed one hundred percent now that my eyes are opened to their endgame possibilities.

We should be able to get notre easy as we are really pumping out the hammers in berlin.

We also have a fair shot at liberalism since we can stay on 100% science for a long time.

getting nottingham islam nets us another cathedral to spend, imo use one of those in nottingham as no way is berlin gonna hit 50k culture last. Just thought of it now btw might as well maximize the +50% culture asap.

btw seeing as agressive as sally is about jud, he might convert nottingham, if so, that's a third catherdral.

Go when you are able mertz, this is looking like a 2 man show.

Cheers!
-Liq

Merzbow

Dec 16, 2005, 01:14 PM

We should be able to get notre easy as we are really pumping out the hammers in berlin.

:smoke:

We also have a fair shot at liberalism since we can stay on 100% science for a long time.

You're sure lib hasn't been discovered yet? I guess there is really no way to tell for sure, since the log message that 'Joe Blow' has discovered liberalism can be delayed many turns. Well we need it anyway so it can't hurt to try.

getting nottingham islam nets us another cathedral to spend, imo use one of those in nottingham as no way is berlin gonna hit 50k culture last. Just thought of it now btw might as well maximize the +50% culture asap.

Yeah our two cats should definitely go in Nottingham and York. London will have PLENTY of culture with all the artists we're gonna hire there.

btw seeing as agressive as sally is about jud, he might convert nottingham, if so, that's a third catherdral.

I hope so. Another good reason to have OB with Sally I guess. Man I wish you could 'kidnap' priests or something from a town with a specific religion in order to get that religion.

I'll play tonight.

Liquidated

Dec 16, 2005, 05:36 PM

I took a screen of the tech trade and guess what... if never took ... they need to add a log entry about taking a screen shot so you know without having to open up the screens directory.

anyway the only tech towards liberalism so far on the trade docket turn 15 was philo from peter I think...

watch techs to see when/if peter finishes paper as that will let you know when the race is on.

seeing as we only have 3 solid cities, we have so little upkeep to leech from research, so it balances out raw beakers wise.

lol just got the berlin quote rofl. least I consistantly replaced london with the name berlin!

well you know, all those white people all look the same!!!:D

I called a planet in the master of orion SG, a 'town' this morning... yeah ok!

Cheers!
-Liq

Merzbow

Dec 17, 2005, 03:41 AM

Turn 1:

Eeek... we should not have non-artist GP specialists in London... notice we have an engineer and a priest hired. If you hired them for the hammers Liq you should have just used plain old citizens instead, they don't generate GP points. I micro to plain old citizens. Notre Dame in 13. ARGH and notice we built the Great Library in London... nononono... we are going to be seeing 10-25% or so scientist great people for most of the game. Nothing is ever worth diluting the artist GP pool in your artist city, the other cities are always available for any wonders.

Notice two Japanese cities on the mainland and one Capac city not confused... will get those first before Sally.

Why are our workers chopping forests around Nottingham... we need those for health plus there's two unused cottage tiles also, so I don't see the point. I'll start them chaining down some farms from London. Were those bad boys on auto-improve?

1 turn left on Philosophy.

Turn 2:

Philosophy -> Paper.

We no longer have Open Borders with Toku... what happened? Perhaps one of our enemies (*cough* Saladin *cough*) bribed him to cut relations with us? I gift him Music and bring our 'trade relations' modifier up to the max +4. He says he may give us OB in a few turns, we'll see.

Notice OB was available with Saladin but not taken yet... I take it.

I revolt to Pacifism where we should stay for the rest of the game (100% GP).

Turn 3:

Anarchy.

Turn 4:

GA born in London, sleeped. (Who the hell is Ling Lun?)

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b79/merzbow4242/Zav04/Zav04_Turn5_SS3.jpg

Turn 5:

Nottingham Confu missionary -> Confu academy. Send missionary to last Capac city. Missionaries to Saladin are a priority but culture buildings take precedence. (Plus Toku isn't giving us OB yet).

Grr the civic change broke our Islamic missionary in York. Put it on an Islamic monastery.

Turn 6:

Confuse Huamanga, Capac's last city.

Turn 7:

Paper -> Education.

York Islam monastery -> Islam missionary.

Turn 8:

Peter dials us up and begs for Paper. I bend over like a good little culture victory player and agree.

Workers are chaining down farms from London to York.

York Islam missionary -> Islam temple.

I retake OB with Toku.

Trade Capac Paper for Optics since Paper is now out in the open (thanks to Peter). We can build caravels now! I will make one at Nottingham so we can go exploring.

Turn 9:

Islamicize Nottingham.

Turn 10:

York Islamic temple -> confu missionary so I can nab Toku's remaining cities.

Turn 11:

Monte declares war on us! J/K, that little prick isn't even in the game... or at least not on our continent.

Turn 12:

York confo missionary -> missionary

London is unhappy, wtf? It didn't even grow. I'll move some more units up there because we're Hereditary Rule.

Turn 13:

Confuse Satsuma.

Turn 14:

York Confu missionary -> macemen. It can't hurt to add a bit more military at this point. Saladin's conversion can wait.
Nottingham Confu academy -> caravel.

Turn 15:

London finishes Notre Dame, awesome! I start it on National Epic for the 100% GP. I also remicro London to hire a bunch of artists.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b79/merzbow4242/Zav04/Zav04_Turn5_SS1.jpg

To next player:

I have a missionary en route to Toku's last city.

I scouted most of Sally's empire in the mysterious Orient (i.e. the other half of our jungle-infested hellhole):

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b79/merzbow4242/Zav04/Zav04_Turn5_SS2.jpg

Keep watching London and make sure the computer doesn't unhire our artists. As the city grows keep working the 3-bread tiles first, this will allow us to support the maximum number of artist specialists while still growing. Keep an eye out for opportunities to trade for +health resources or build +health buildings.

I put suggested build queues in London and Nottingham, mostly Islamic buildings. Build the Islamic Mosque in York when it becomes available. We could use a better military now so keep slipping in macemen and cats every now and then.

After Liberalism I suggest we go Nationalism then Constitution (for Representation) then Gunpowder then Military Tradition, then we flip the culture switch. Use best judgment as to good trades, and so on. If we don't have the necessary techs by 1600 we should still probably go 50% culture. But we need to get real close to 1600 for the flip if we want to win this. Once we have Representation it becomes much easier for us to flip even if we don't have the latter two yet since all those specialists will be producing beakers independent of the slider.

Liquidated

Dec 17, 2005, 06:07 PM

nottingham still doesn;t have an aquaduct and is ok on health so cutting the health mod down to +1 from forests imo was fine..

as for the open borders, not sure wtf... I got open border with sally, did it un pop?

Agreed completely about the civics.. and the corrosponding tech plan.

My bad on the scientist gp's :confused: nother lesson learned.

After national wonder builds in london can take work off half those hills and convert to artist specs I think.

I'll play tonight in about 5 hours.

Cheers!
-Liq

Liquidated

Dec 19, 2005, 10:53 AM

preturn:

so nice to come back to a game with only 3 cities lol

just making sure everything looks ok.

see a jewish missonary in our lands near nottingham... cool. I'll make sure I spread jud on my own.

see we are bleeding 10 gold a turn and have 50 in bank... that is going to have to stop soon.

crunch time on research =/

[1]1400 AD
great scientist is born in london, will save him to advance tech... he's pointed to education now but that's up in one turn.

oh and no workers were never on auto... auto is evil.

nottingham has 10 population can grow one more. 22-20 food. 2 unused cottages so going to erase one untouched cottage with a farm to give us 1 food lose no time on the cottage other than buiding a new one.... need another 1 food (which is why I was chopping 2 forests.

got enough health for nottingham as it's never gonna get past size 13 so the forest to chop would be the one NW that gets the free irragation to nottingham.

nara converts np.

sallys missonary passes up nottingham yay

[2]1410 AD
we are the most cultured civ!!! sally is second.

Education comes in liberalism is next in 9 but... 10 turns at 90%

York builds a mace I decide on a market on account we need the cash and york is pulling in the most cash with the shrines.

london gets judaism!!!! ok london will make a mosque after epic. lets hop sally converts our other cities for us.

nottingham finishes the caveral and autos onto islamic temple... good with me.

with the caveral hmm well no real time to ship in missonaries with it so gonna explore.

great scientist can be used towards printing press.. a tech we need for red coats. will wait on that.

[3]1420 AD
nottingham gets judaism too sweet. ok going to build temples before mosques if york gets as well.. sally is very agressive on this though so most likely.

see sally is willing to trade engineering, and is missing a ton of techs... need engineerings for repacabvle parts for redcoats so try...
get engineering for our Divine right a trade in his favort raw beakers wise but 1300 research we don;t need to get. we also can build a castle for the +1 culture if we are idle.

[4]1430 AD
running out of things for workers to do so mining any hill in our cultural borders to see if any latent metals.

quiet turn

[5]1440 AD
even less to mention!

[6]1450 AD
hmm fun

[7]1460 AD
london finishes nation epic (+99 GP points a turn now!)moves to islamic temple... that's fine going to adjust the build queue.
Nottingham is on islamic monestary but change that to jewish temple.

york is still not jud.. if still that way in 4 turns london will build a jud monestary.

[8]1470 AD
zzz

[9]1480 AD
York gets it's market and we gain 3 gold a turn... now are +1 gold a turn at 90% research.. better than -1 at 25 gold in bank =p start on a confused missonary in 2 turns.

sending caveral back as scoth is doing a good job scouting the coastal areas.

we get Valmiki the artist... he goes to bed with ling lum or whoever.

[10]1490 AD

umm well crap... civ rebooted my pc at 1480AD and wiped out my writup...

ok well fast over since it was pretty boring

great scentist with printing press on docket
great artist sleeping

jud was given to london and nottingham, but not york yet.
[1]-[7] crash

[8] 1480 AD
home stretch for liberalism and you know peter is right there so place the towns on build research and place on a back breaking 100% research to knock it down from 3 turns to two.

cross fingers.

[9] 1490 AD
no one discovers liberalism and 1 turn on clock... we win?

[10]1500 AD
wtf, the game REFUSES to take a screen shot.. ok here's the brute force method screenshot entire EFFING desktop and open it in photoshop, convert it to jpg then cut the window and open new file and paste result... wtf.
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/liquidated/Liberalism.jpg

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/liquidated/liberal.jpg

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/liquidated/nationalism.jpg

back on normal speed research with 90% spending and no research in queue and well 16(+1) turns on constitution with 20 turns until culture switch. so we in ok shape there.

nationalism allows us a chance at taj... the artist gp points are nice as is the 10 culture. the free goldenage is eh.. london needs 19 turns thouh and that's with bureaucracy... need to build tempels first tho.

we can revolt to free speech but for now there's more than a few buildings london needs to build postehaste so gonna delay it.

now to shop techs other than nationalism. only guilds up for trade and well saladin doesn;t wanna trade it.

going 1 turn with 0 research so we can have a bank account again.

[11]1505 AD
turn reseach back to 90%, gaining 2 gold a turn.

[12]1510 AD
york finished missonary and sent it to sally. Is able to build Mosque(9) since london finished it's islamic temple..

london finishes islamic temple, works on jud temple.
york still doesn;t have jud. so queueing up a jud monestary in london.

looking like nottingham needs hermitage(10) as it's lagging in the culture even with the confused cathedral. needs harbor in 4 turns as much tho so queue it after.

[13]1515 AD
haha peter wants to trade guilds + 50 gold for nationalism... RIGHT...
sally has gun powder but is unwilling to trade.

[14]1520 AD
zzz

[15]1525 AD
oh crap cannot spread confusion to sally as he's theo. send misson to peter.

-----------------------------------------------
ok BARELY managed to snag liberalism first seeing as I never once got to trade the tech to anyone same turn we got it! we needed every last beaker to pull that off.

sally has gunpowder as does peter now... peter wants our nationalism but that's far too uneven a trade to consider and he will not trade guilds AND gunpowder for nationalism.
need to offload nationalism though before peter researches it himself. decide if you want taj built in london first though

we are still in bueau CIVC as london can use the hammers to get york juded up..

london and nottingham have jud york still doesn;t. london is 3 turns from building a jewish mosque so grab a missonary after to convert.

seriously may want to consider converting to jewish especially if we can convince capac to do the same. it WILL cheese off toku tho.

on push for red coats we have a scientist GP to push printing press

have hermitage queued in nottingham as it's the poorest of our three cities culturally.
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/liquidated/cities.jpg

so glad I beefed up the bank account, 100 gold is MUCH better than 6 when we alternate between + and - spnding each turn.

caveral is in nottingham still not sure what to do with it. seeing as missonaries are faster over roads.

a great person next turn in london who is just spitting out the GP's at 99 a turn.

Cheers!
-Liq

edit :
holy crap, notetab OWNS..... I thought I had lost all that first writeup but it auto saved it for me. if you use notpad for writeups I highly recommend getting a hold of the free version of notetab.

oh and the save DUH.... least I caught it early lol

Merzbow

Dec 19, 2005, 12:12 PM

Great set of turns aside from the caravel... the caravel is for making contact with civs on other continents and hopefully making some favorable trades as a tech broker. You had it sleeping for your whole turnset? :smoke:

Liberalism is a big win. We might have been farther ahead than we think... a tech will only be available for trade to an AI once the AIs have all the necessary prereqs, so probably Peter and company just didn't even have all the prereqs yet.

Redcoats is good... dunno what I was :smoke: advising going for cavalry first... cavs don't get defensive bonuses and thus are useless for defending against invading armies of tanks and whatnot (not like anything will help us much there, but the AI is usually dumb enough not to bombard down cultural defenses first so it may be enough for early Modern Age defensive warfare).

I'll try to run some ghetto math and see if the Taj is worth keeping us in Bureaucracy longer.

Great that we got Judaism. We shouldn't convert though, as Toku is unpredictable enough as it is and Capac is usually a reliable ally.

I just recently learned the trick too of mining all hills inside cultural borders to see if resources pop up. Loaded a save game from some guy and wondered why he had like 200 hills mined he wasn't using.

we get Valmiki the artist... he goes to bed with ling lum or whoever.

Ling Lun is actually a man (I looked this up, he was some court musician in ancient China). So is Valmiki I assume. Those wacky artists... :love:

Liquidated

Dec 19, 2005, 05:35 PM

no I explored with the caveral then came back to pick up a missonary to scout said continents.

but yes Liq was ewffing beat tired... the drive home took about 75 times longer (as in 10 mins => 3 hours) and the entire way was paved with broken glass.... I was so fearful for my tires.

the broken glass thing was NOT an exaggeration... Californians have NO EFFING clue how to drive in the rain and it was a torrential downpour here yesterday.

My legs were cramped from all clutchwork.

Taj's main attraction is moot as a golden age with 3 towns is more like a bronze age. So it'll be close if worth it. I'm personally thinking it's not.

Cheers!
-Liq

Liquidated

Dec 19, 2005, 05:48 PM

oh and consider the caveral PAYBACK for you cancelling my effing galley lol.

hermitage alone will bring nottingham up to york in terms of culture per turn, the jud chathedral will make up for the disparaging totals.

London is an effing culture monster now so it;ll not be needing a boost as it will hit 50k first.

as much as you hate the great library, redcoats are a serious tech reach and using scientists will help that. not only that but the added research those scientists added allowed us to win liberalism... I mean peter HAS the tech, it was that close. I'll never again scoff at squeezing out one turn off a milestone like that.

oh another thing against taj I just thought of.. once we drop into free speech, london can drop those hammer squares and convert the pop into artists. Just get get the crucial buildings out of the way first, we almost done in that respect.

Cheers!
-Liq

Merzbow

Dec 19, 2005, 09:08 PM

Turn 1:

It is the year of our, uh, non-denominational creator, 1525 AD (whatever AD meands). Our artists have formed a hippy commune in London and are having a grand old time pushing the boundaries of Rennaisance-era morality. But otherwise things look good...

A caravel is sitting in Nottingham, forgotten, its crew scattered to dockyard bars long ago. I order the port authorities to round up a dozen able-bodied seamen post-haste (in other words, anyone not too drunk to walk) and set them on their way. The newly (re-)christened 'Mayflower Drunks' is sent on its way with a trunkful of dried fruit, several tons of bread, and a couple dozen barrels of underaged rum.

I can actually see the borders of Isabella's empire SW of Toku. I send the Drunks on a 13-turn journey thereabouts.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b79/merzbow4242/Zav04/Turn06/Civ4ScreenShot0000.jpg

I think I will go for the Taj in London once the monastery completes. It generates +10 raw CPP a turn, but more than that it gives us two free artists that NEVER GO OBSOLETE. I micro London to complete it in 17.

Will turn some of those forests in Nottingham into farms/cottages after all. We need to support more cottages there specifically.

Trades... hmm, not much. Want to save Nationalism until we're closer to finished the Taj.

I still don't like our military situation with Toku having Samurai now, but not much we can do until the culture buildings are out.

Turn 2:

London pops Li Po, who promply joins the artist commune.

Moscow is confused.

Turn 3:

Micro Nottingham for production instead of growth to push out those buildings. There are no more 2-bread tiles left so the additional citizen wouldn't be able to support himself yet anyways.

I put most of our workers to sleep since they have nothing to do.

Turn 4:

Peter is first to circumnavigate the globe...

Turn 5:

Our scout has nowhere left to explore. I sleep him on the western edge of Saladin's empire in the hope that if Sally decides to prepare a stack to send against us I'll see it forming with plenty of warning.

Turn 6:

:sleep:

Turn 7:

York mosque -> university.

Turn 8:

Nottingham finishes Hermitage. I queue up a bunch of buildings here - aqueduct, two monasteries, then a university.

Peter's discovered Nationalism already, dammit. But notice that he's willing to Confuse if we just convert more of his cities. I decide to buy his World Map for our map and 70 gold since I know he's seen much of the globe already. Ack, it didn't show us as much as I thought it would, but we can see that Montezuma and of course Izzy are sharing a continent to our SW. (Sweet justice, those two psychopaths deserve each other).

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b79/merzbow4242/Zav04/Turn06/Civ4ScreenShot0002.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b79/merzbow4242/Zav04/Turn06/Civ4ScreenShot0003.jpg

We have nothing to trade with anybody, damn. As usual Toku is backwards but still won't trade us jack. I don't see much we can do to improve our relations with him now that we're at +4 trade relations already.

Turn 9:

:sleep:

Turn 10:

Jack and nothing.

Turn 11:

WTF we get a GREAT MERCHANT in London? Great, the AI auto-hired merchants in London while I wasn't looking, and the icons looked so similar to artists that I didn't notice. Lesson learned. He will be worth some cash though, which we will save for emergency unit upgrades (or to bribe punters to go to war). I send him to Peter's largest city to conduct a trade mission. I'd put him on the other continent but I doubt that either Monte or Izzy is going to be willing to give us OB.

Turn 12:

SALADIN of all clowns is willing trade with us. We can get either Gunpower or Guilds for Education. This is a tough decision. Guilds would actually get us grocers, which would do much to ease our unhealthiness problems. But we do need military and Gunpowder is the more expensive tech, so I take it.

York has just finished its last cultural building (I later discover that this is wrong). I re-micro it for growth and start on missionary. Peter only has 5 cities so it shouldn't take us that long to convert them.

Turn 13:

We get Constitution. I set a tech auto-path to Rifling and revolt to Representation (1 turn).

The Mayflower Drunks meets that super-skank Isabella and that super-psycho-schizo-freak Montezuma. As usual Isabella is Buddhist and in a bad mood, and in last place in score. Her case is hopeless, with both a -4 for religion and a -3 for 'trading with our worst enemies'. But Monte is only -2 for religion, we can make him our friend. Both are VERY backwards in techs, we have like 8 techs on each and they've got nothing to trade. This could bode well for us in the future as they acquire more techs.

We've now met all 7 civs. I just signed OB with Monte. What I suggest is that we ship missionaries over there in the future and convert him. To that end I'll move the Drunks back to the mainland and park him on the southern coast.

I decide to cultivate Monte and gift him Philosophy. We immediately get a +4 to relations. Isabella can bite me.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b79/merzbow4242/Zav04/Turn06/Civ4ScreenShot0005.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b79/merzbow4242/Zav04/Turn06/Civ4ScreenShot0006.jpg

Here is the relations chart:

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b79/merzbow4242/Zav04/Turn06/Civ4ScreenShot0007.jpg

Turn 14:

OK we're in Representation now, and I flip the culture switch to 90%. The tech path looks dismal. It's like 200 turns to Rifling. Even if I set it to half and half culture/research we're looking at around 60 turns. Even with culture back at 0 and research at 90% it's 30 turns, way too long for us to wait to flip (based on my experience).

I decide to go half-half until we get Guilds in 7 turns, which is very important for both grocers and knights. The +4 health from all of the items that a grocer enables (assuming we have/can trade for them) will grab us 2 additional specialists in London. After that we should just bite the bullet and go all-culture. Eventually I think we have to bank on being able to make some trades with Monte in order to catch up.

Turn 15:

HOLY CRAP!

Saladin has just declared on Capac!

But even though the Power chart claims that Sally is ahead in soldiers, Capac is ahead in tech - he has grenadiers.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b79/merzbow4242/Zav04/Turn06/Civ4ScreenShot0008.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b79/merzbow4242/Zav04/Turn06/Civ4ScreenShot0009.jpg

I think it will end in a stalemate. I really hope Capac wins, because if he doesn't, then we'll be forced to convert to Judaism, which will piss off Toku. I'm pretty sure that one of these clowns will ask us to declare on the other in the near future. We really can't afford to agree, even if Capac asks for help.

Turn 16:

I'll play to the end of this turn to even it up at 210 left. Liq you left me the save with 225 left but at the beginning of the turn. End-of-turn saves are better since non-dismissable dialogs can come up at the beginning of a turn that must be responded to. For example, at the start of this turn Monte asked for our World Map in tribute (I of course agreed).

#$()&#$(*#$&

Peter completes the GODDAMN Taj 3 turns before us! The bastard didn't even have Nationalism until like 10 turns after we did so he must have used an engineer. We just got completely out-cockblocked by this jester.

We'll get some cash and can then revolt to Free Speech. I dismiss the Taj in London and queue up culture buildings. After those finish we should go all 2+ bread tiles in London to support artists. It looks like this game is going to be tough, I was REALLY counting on those two free specialists to improve our artist yield.

We net 1500 gold from the Great Merchant in Moscow.

WTF? I didn't notice until now that York was lacking a Jewish temple and monastery. I queue them up since the missionary just finished (who I send to Peter).

To next player:

This war is gonna be a hoot to watch (we can see all the action in real-time due to our magic Confucian spying abilities). We're nearing completion of all our culture buildings, after that pump out missionaries, grocers, then go culture (plus a few military).

Zavior

Dec 19, 2005, 10:05 PM

Sorry, I've let this game to be without me too long. Lets fall back to usual roster.

Liquidated

Dec 19, 2005, 10:40 PM

Merzbow

Dec 19, 2005, 10:46 PM

ok I'll play this round.

that sucks about Taj oh well we can use the cash for sure.

did you check what tech the merchant had? I mean we need to make rifling as fast as possible. oh well

Cheers!
-Liq

Would have taken us partway to Guilds... but I decided we needed 1500 gold more, we had none in the bank and gold is eternally useful for bribing AIs to declare (and for possible unit upgrades), while techs become obsolete.

Liquidated

Dec 20, 2005, 12:39 AM

ok lets see. everything looks fine

[1]1605 AD
saladin adopts vass... um wtf why he wait.

[2]1610 AD
grr capac wants us to change to hereditary rule... I tell him sorry

[3]1615 AD
saladin asks for help in the war.... uh no thanks pal.

wow peter is being very agressive with the missonarys for taoism. lets hope he says hi to us!!!

[4]1620 AD
Novograd gets confused
we finish guilds.
we have 2357 gold in the bank, we can afford -8 gold a turn.

get printing press and banking from saladin for liberalism and constitution... no idea if that's a deal for him but well that owns for us as we just shaved off like 20 turns of research.

12 turns on replacable parts now. scientist points to chemistry blah so that means our scientist is only good for an academy. nottingham, it's 4 culture a turn so not the absolute worst place.

york finished jud temple start nottingham on the jud cathedral(7) after University(2) finishes.

keep culture slider at 50%, sorry but we need a real defensive unit.

all towns spitting out 110ish culture a turn and nottingham is about to get a giant shot in the arm... if we get a tao cathedral give it to like hmm dunno!!! not nottingham!

[5]1625 AD
build an accademy at nottingham. gain a turn on replacable parts.
clearing two forests and farming them at nottingham. leaves 2 forests for +1 health.

[6]1630 AD
york pops St. peter............ sigh. he has no tech to offer so well shrine it is for islam. 4 culture a turn and a whopping 4 gold lol better than nothing.
4 turns on jud cathedral

[7]1635 AD
hmm nothign special other than the fact that capac and peter have replacable parts.

[8]1640 AD
nothing going on for workers to do so I go after the remaing jungle in our borders lol

as for the war... well saladin is doing a ton of pillaging.

[9]1645 AD
yay a great scientist! that's our third acadenmy!

[10]1650 AD
mass fun now that nottingham built jud cathedral... it's pumping out 159 culture a turn lol to yorks 126 and london's 120

tu fu the great um artist is heading to toku's poor town of satsuma INCOMING

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/liquidated/incoming.jpg

[11]1655 AD
just noticed we stole another dye from toku.

wow culture bomb at satsuma!!!
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/liquidated/culture_dud.jpg

...
:dubious:
...

some real fighting finally happened in the war... kinda.

[12]1660 AD
ho hum

[13]1665 AD
oh hmm capac adopts free religion.
now that we have a free dye(thanks toku!) I trade it to saladin for spices... that's +1 health with grocers...

capac is now cautious =/

[14]1670 AD
replacable parts comes in, rifling in 11.. we MUST have rifling.. must must especially with capac not liking us.

[15]1675 AD
capac comes looking to declare war on saladin... um no... saladin took oiloipoliposucking or whatever... one of capac's towns. cor notice we were left on beaur so revolt to free speech.

we can build lumber yards so I do just that on the remaining forests.

Rifling is in 10 turns, science is 50% culture is 50% and we are at 2324 gold and money is about even.

all towns almost done with groceries, those are worth +3 health for us since we have spices, bananas, silk, I queued castles for the culture but that's up to veto.

towns are about even on culture output now

find a good balance on rifiling and culture output, we must have rifling or else we gonna get run over.

whatever you do DO NOT GET CHEMISTRY!!!!!! just making sure :D

once rifling comes in time to crank out MASSSSSS red coats and turn culture to 100%

Cheers!
-Liq

Merzbow

Dec 20, 2005, 02:17 AM

Good trades. Too bad about Capac. Maybe we should join the Jewish axis now. Wonder if we can bribe Peter to declare on Capac?

Liquidated

Dec 20, 2005, 12:13 PM

yeah seriously jud is looking good.

toku is the hitch but he's never reliable ever.

capac made a series of bad diplo moves... free religion... on the losing end of a war with saladin.. making chain demands of us that we cannot comply with.

I "cheated" after posting last night and hit turn end on the revolt to free speech just to see how effing wacked the culture output was in our towns..

amazingly after all was said and done, all 3 are producing about the same culture.... about 210ish on 50% culture.

whoda thunk?

might want to consider putting nottingham and york on build beakers for the push to rifling. London has never been high hammers such that it's the slowest building infrastructure... that's why beaur was such a nice civic for us.

anyway get rifling and go 100% culture. Just chain build our effing redcoats maybe letting nottingham build pure culture inorder to catch up in total culture. By the time anyone attacks us, they will be past grens so no issue there with mass riflemen lol.

well other than tanks vs. riflemen is kinda p0 :lol:

we pretty much done doing [pimp] things to derail this game.. down to the long haul seeing how long capac and saladin manage to entertain themselves.

Cheers!
-Liq

Liquidated

Dec 20, 2005, 12:26 PM

Montezuma and of course Izzy are sharing a continent to our SW. (Sweet justice, those two psychopaths deserve each other).

hehe forgot to reply to that line... AMEN BROTHA!!! man I loathe izzy but then monty is just as bad!

imagine if we got izzy monty and toku on this continent with peter and saladin off on their own.

****shudder****

anyway I'm shocked we'll manage to get rifling before 1700. that's some quality culture time.

Cheers!
-Liq

Merzbow

Dec 20, 2005, 02:09 PM

Winning a 3CC challenge involves somewhat more luck than almost all other game types because of weak military. Even in OCC games you can have an awesome military simply because in OCC you're always way ahead in tech. I tried Monarch 3CC and Toku came at me in 1860 with 4 stacks, consisting of 40 artillery, 15 infantry, and 10 gunships, and he was pleased prior to that point. No amount of diplomacy or military buildup could theoretically have countered that. I had nothing to bribe any other civs with to attack him (again unlike in, say, OCC where you'll always have techs to bribe with).

Liquidated

Dec 20, 2005, 10:25 PM

holy hell, never seen 40 artillery ever, 60 sams? 100 sams ? yah of course!

well we'll see about this SG.

I made more than a few bone headed moves that I should be embarrased about but well I learn! We'll see how this plays out.

as for a fun time I've determined agressive civs large balanced 3 opposing civs anc start prince difficulty is pretty plain until you throw in the inability to park units to illuminate around you. Oh did I mention flaming barbs?:D

might have to make it a 10cc to keep the SG from farming out cities.

nothing like fog of war well into the modern age.

still fine tuning that sg.

Cheers!
-Liq

Zavior

Dec 21, 2005, 06:08 AM

Turn 246
Anarchy

Turn 247
We adopt free speech, nice cultural output we have here.

Turn 250
Montezuma demans that we cancel our deals with the arabian. No deal! Montezuma is landblocked by arabia, so there arent any immidiate consequences.

Turn 251
There goes Huyana Capac demanding our pigs. No deal here either. Hope my decisions wont decide this game o_O
Start versailles in notthingham.

Turn 254
Huyana capac makes peace with saladin.

Turn 256
Great scientist is born :/

Turn 257
Rifling in, start heading towards democracy.
Osaka, Tokyo, Satsuma are dropping towards rebellion.

Turn 260
Togukawa completes Versailles :/

Liquidated

Dec 21, 2005, 10:04 AM

time to end research and go 100% culture.

that and spam redcoats with york and london.

IMO let nottingham work pure culture to help catch up in totals since output is similar.

Cheers!
-Liq

Merzbow

Dec 21, 2005, 11:43 AM

Got it, will play today.

BTW guys you need to check out this Civilopedia replacement, it's awesome:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=148253

No more icons!

Merzbow

Dec 21, 2005, 01:05 PM

Turn 1:

Our relations with Capac are worse than they could have been. We should have agreed to accept his civic, then we could have just changed back in 5 turns with no penalty. Should have given him the pigs too, that was a bad move - we have TWO pigs, now we have a permanent -1.

I bump the culture slider to 90%. Democracy is useless to us. I put research on Economics.

Holy crap, check this out... Sally and Peter have a DEFENSIVE PACT:

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b79/merzbow4242/Zav04/Turn07/Civ4ScreenShot0000.jpg

... And guess what, we can have one with Sally also. I signed us up:

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b79/merzbow4242/Zav04/Turn07/Civ4ScreenShot0001.jpg

I'm surprised he was willing to sign given that we're not Jewish yet. Believe it or not, Saladin is actually willing to convert to Confucianism if we confuse more cities, but if he's still Theocracy, this is impossible.

Be aware that Sally may cancel the pact if we somehow achieve another -1 with him. We can't afford to lose this pact, so if that happens, we need to immediately become Jewish and re-establish it. Otherwise for now there's no harm in staying confused as it helps us with Toku.

I trade Monte some GPT for cows. Yay +health.

London needs to be set for artist specialist completely. I set it to work only 2+ and 3+ bread tiles. It still has a big food surplus and I'll let it keep growing until all the 2+ tiles are worked.

York is woefully mismanaged. York has an engineer and a priest hired. :blush: Nononono... if 90% of our future GP aren't artists we are going to lose this plain and simple. It doesn't need specialists, it needs to work those high production tiles for Redcoats. I do so, and we now have Redcoat in 4. York will be our military production city.

I put Nottingham on temporary starvation in order to get out Versailles.

I notice that most of our old units can be upgraded to Redcoats. I'll upgrade a few now and keep most of our gold. We can upgrade the rest in emergencies later.

I don't like the city-buster stack Capac is building up in Ainu:

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b79/merzbow4242/Zav04/Turn07/Civ4ScreenShot0002.jpg

Turn 2:

Someone else builds Versailles, I'll put Notty on missionaries for the near future.

London bank -> culture. Production sucks now because I'm putting everything on food.

Our Great Scientist sleeping in London is worse than useless. We have 3 academies already, can only use him for Chemistry, (ack), and don't want to join him anywhere for the unwanted specialist points. Wonder if we should just give his ass away...

I notice that Capac is Free Religion, so going Jewish won't hurt our relations with him. Toku will be hurt but he's so weak it won't matter. I'll see if Saladin is still in Theocracy and then decide what to do.

I unstarve Notty and focus it on growth - it's way below its limits.

Turn 3:

What kind of BS is this? Why is PETER upset we've signed pacts with our rivals when he's friendly with Saladin? Must be a bug:

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b79/merzbow4242/Zav04/Turn07/Civ4ScreenShot0003.jpg

Turn 4:

I'm going to destroy London's mines and put up windmills. We aren't working these tiles anyway because they're only +1 food. This will make them +2 food and still give us some production.

Turn 5:

Sally is still Theocracy. I also notice Peter converted back to Tao. Hmm, what to do? Here's the plan:

1. Stay Confucian UNTIL Saladin either demands we go Jewish or cancels our pact. At that point, go Jewish IMMEDIATELY.

2. Confuse Peter's cities but don't make him convert yet.

3. Spread Judaism in TOKU's cities now, because if we switch we'll lose our OB and won't be able to then.

To that end I'm going to deviate York's production for a few turns to Jewish missionaries for Toku.

Turn 6:

Judify Tokyo.

Turn 7:

Capac asks us to cancel with Sally. I say no. He's very annoyed now. Uh-oh. I want to go Jewish ASAP, but not before I convert all of Toku's cities. I notice I can actually bribe Toku to go to work with Capac.... for everything we own. Not unless we have to.

Turn 8:

Capac cancelled our OB. So much for converting Peter (unless we use the caravel). War will come with the Incans sooner rather than later I fear.

Turn 9:

Holy crap TWO of Toku's cities are revolting. He's under enormous cultural pressure from us. Hopefully these will be ours soon:

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b79/merzbow4242/Zav04/Turn07/Civ4ScreenShot0004.jpg

Turn 10:

Jewish a few more Toku cities.

Turn 11:

Ditto.

Turn 12:

:sleep:

Turn 13:

Artist born in London.

Turn 14:

Convert convert convert...

Turn 15:

:sleep:

Turn 16:

(Again I decide to play until the end of a turn).

Missionary failed in Nara, we need another. Missionary crossing on boat to Kagoshima.

To next player:

Capac is gonna declare on us soon. We have the pact with Sally but I guarantee you if we get a -1 with him he'll cancel it. Therefore we NEED TO GO JEWISH as soon as Toku's last two cities are converted. We'll immediately lose OB with Toku but I have hope he will officially convert on his own or can be convinced to convert.

I know I took a risk pumping out the Jew missionaries instead of redcoats or culture, but knowing we've got to go Jewish soon I didn't want to write Toku away permanently as an ally. Instead now there will be a chance for him to go Jewish also.

Keep letting London grow, increasing the # of artists as you see fit. When we hit the health cap call it a day and stagnate, putting all we've got into artists. Do not work those 1-bread tiles.

Come up with a military plan to put into effect when Capac declares. Sally will hit him in the back at the same time so it shouldn't be as bad as we think. He doesn't have infantry yet thank god. The one thing we can't afford to lose aside from our cities is our towns.

Merzbow

Dec 21, 2005, 04:17 PM

Liq... consider switching to Mercantalism if we can afford it. I read on another thread you can get up to +5 from Toku for having Mercantalism as your civic, that would be VERY useful. Plus we get a free specialist per city. But if it costs us mucho money per turn, not so good.

Also I think I paid Monte too much for the cows... something like 12 GPT. Boner on my part. When the 10 turns is up cancel it and try to renegotiate. We do have a decent amount of health now.

Liquidated

Dec 21, 2005, 06:20 PM

I reinstalled civ because I simply could not play another sg... now, I cannot load anything. if I start a new game, the game poofs on me (not even an error message) as soon as I try and build a city.

in the preocess of trying to fix this crap...

new install and it's doing it still.

Cheers!
-Liq

Merzbow

Dec 21, 2005, 07:13 PM

Can you get a new video card for Christmas? :D

Merzbow

Dec 21, 2005, 07:45 PM

I keep mulling over my decision to produce Jewish missionaries to convert Toku instead of more Redcoats. Could have popped about 5 Redcoats instead. If we lose because of lack of Redcoats, it's my fault. But Toku certainly isn't powerful enough to declare on us soon, and if Capac declares Saladin does also because of the pact, and in my experience I've found that a more powerful AI declaring on an AI at war with me will cause the AI to shift all his city-buster units to the other front. We still have lots of gold and lots of unupgraded units, so we're not defenseless. I guess we'll see what happens. Peter seems to be way ahead in tech, we need to keep our eye on him in regards to a space victory.

Liquidated

Dec 21, 2005, 09:52 PM

hehe is a 128mb 9800 pro that bad a card that it cannot play an effing turn based game?

got it sort of stable now... will try and slog past the crashes.

Cheers!
-Liq

Liquidated

Dec 22, 2005, 12:32 AM

preturn:

lets see if mertz left the wrong specs up!!!

as for why in tarnations london is building culture... nottingham needs to catch up

the new civlopedia is sweeeeet. thanks for the heads up mertz.

ooo we have taoism. score getting london that temple is gonna suck. may have to go generic citizen specs for a timely completion.

crash

ok saw what's up
[1]1825 AD
toku wants to give us chemistry... so tempting NOT.

well corp in 20 or military tradition in 27 corp is is!!!!

seems either freetrade or mercantil..

imo we are gettign 13 commerce alone in london from 2 trades, switching to merc will really hamper that flow of culture as we only have 3 towns. we'd lose about 120 culture a turn by changing to merc... that's bad.

free trade will get us more commerce and toku's relations are pretty solid. free trade it is.

salamanica has been captured by the aztecs!

[2]1830 AD
london's specs go all crazy... fix them, go 100% culture and losing 6 gold a turn... what a deal.

nottingham is pumping out 380 culture a turn now and york is 305.

crashing allover the place... cannot even load the game now

kago, toku's island town gets jud.

[3]1835 AD
satsuma flips to us... start on a hindu monestary for maybe another cathrdral lol

jud missonary is born send him to nara.. toku has one more town..

[4]1840 AD
satsuma grabs the mined hill south of it, doubles it's hammers!

redcoat in york go to tao temple

lodndon grows to 23 people, 10 turns on it's last pop.

[5]1845 AD
nottingham builds a red coat, I move to tao mones
nara gets jud... one more town left gonna concentrate on making 3 tao temples.

[6]1850 AD
a few things...
monty cancels 18 gold for cows... what were you smoking mertz? that evens us on gold per turn to 0 on 100% culture. think monty lost his cows is why he canceled.
saladin demands we go jud... I agree!!!

we are now cautious with toku

[7]1852 AD
toku cancels open borders with us.

osaka is ours... comes with 2 redcoats and a barracks/forge and 8 turns on next redcoat... sweet. gonna pump out redcoats there.

[8]1854 AD

toku converts to jud on his own yay!!!

york finishes tao temple goes to monest.

toku is pleased with us again... get open borders back with toku.

[9] 1856 AD
Spain is DEAD!!!!! :eek: omg monty took madrid.

nottingham finished tao mones starts on missonary to convert london. question do you need a temple in town to make a cathedral?

[10]1858 AD
york finishes tao monest, go for a red coat.

[11]1860 AD
nottingham finished tao missonary goes for a temple

[12]1862 AD
taoism london, london starts on a tao temple in 7 turns, not bad.

[13]1864 AD
Amir Khusro is born in london, my heart stopped a sec since I saw a flashing scientist.. turns out it was the old scientist we have had in london for a while just left cursor on him. sleep the new artist with the rest of the cute little guys.

[14]1866 AD
york redcoat ->redcoat
samutra hindu monestary -> hindu missonary in 5.

[15] 1868 AD
osaka redcoat -> redcoat in 7. ship it's redcoat to york.

ok turn end game crashes after I look at the diplo screen.

We went freetrade for the +6ish commerce per town
we were told to go jud by our buddy saladin... we said ok and cheesed off toku who dropped OB.
toku converted to jud on his own and we got open borders again!
Aztecs wiped spain off the face of the earth. that's not too good but saladin hates monty.
toku peter and saladin are jud and love us
monty is cautious and capac is annoyed.

we flipped sumatra and osaka from toku... tokyo is taking a beating by out massive culture output as our culture hits tokyo's walls! Our culture is so silly, I mean sumatra is refined culture already and it's got jack for culture infrastructure.

sumatra is building a hindu missonary to convert 2 more towns for a cathrdral... keep in mind we only need 3 towns so converting osaka and nottingham/york are a good idea. DO NOT WASTE A TAO missonary on london! londons's hammer output sucks.

york needs to build the tao cathrdral when we get hindu temples going in a few turns. Not sure who gets the hindu, york or nottingham as nottingham is potting out fierce culture.

osaka is a great redcoat farm.. it's working high hammer tiles and came with a prebuilt forge and barracks.

now have 4 artists in london, keep the scientist as like a bribe i guess... we cannot use him unless you want like a dedicated super spec in osaka or sumatra as those will never gbe gaining other GP's

kept gold in bank over 2k

sorry no screen, the ini I downloaded to try and help crashes seems to have take screens off.

quiet turns but overall positive.

Cheers!
-Liq

Lord_Iggy

Dec 22, 2005, 01:39 AM

*SG Lurker emerges*

Nice going guys! This one's gonna have a great finish. Good luck!

Merzbow

Dec 22, 2005, 03:29 AM

:banana:

Incredible... the gamble paid off. Yes I was certainly smoking when I bought those cows, but to my credit I did admit it in a separate message up above. :D

Those two flipped cities are great, they have the potential to save our ass regarding military production. They definitely take the load off our three culture cities. I was building culture in London to put pressure on Toku's cities and because it had so few hammers anyways that there was no point in trying to build anything.

Man mercantalism is really a worthless civic ain't it... you're right there's no reason to give up those trade routes. The only situation I could concieve of it being worth it is in an 'always-war' game where you can't have foreign trade routes anyways.

Zav - as soon as London hits that health cap don't let it grow anymore and don't work any 1-bread tiles; plow all the surplus into artists. To win in a comfortable time frame (mid-1900s) I've found that it really helps to have about 10 artists by that time, enough to make up about a 40,000 culture deficit. If we can quickly ramp up London then we can make it.

Will the time spent in making those Tao builidings pay off instead of us just building culture now, given how late we are in the game? Not so sure...

Merzbow

Dec 22, 2005, 03:37 AM

Now that Monte is all alone on his pathetic island he may turn his serial-killer ways on us... it will be worth it landing a few obsolete units there just to spy on his production. We should see if he tries to build a landing fleet to drop on our doorstep. Maybe just bribe his ass to declare on Peter or Capac...

We should find a few good +75% defense tiles near Capac's borders and put some Redcoats there. If he attacks we want to bleed off a bunch of units before they get to the cities and pillage our towns/farms.

Zavior

Dec 22, 2005, 04:37 AM

I havent installed civ on my new machine yet - I need to get network drivers working too. Shouldn't be problem though.

Merzbow

Dec 22, 2005, 11:45 AM

Scratch my suggestion about bribing Monte to declare on Peter... we don't want anyone to declare on Peter, because then Saladin will declare due to his pact with Peter... then that would result in OUR pact with Saladin being cancelled (because if you enter a war all pacts you have cancel), and the Capac would eat us alive. Damn you Isabella for being so weak...

Liquidated

Dec 23, 2005, 01:14 AM

I had to install the 1.52 patch to even play a late era SG without crashing just looking at the screen. no choice there as all late games were crashing left and right. all looks stable now tho.

as for the goodies.. corp is coming in soon and that's a sweet 6 base commerce added to our core towns for free.

6 base commere in nottingham is like 40+ commerce adjusted or there abouts lol.

imo tao is worth it for york and nottingham becuase they both have insane hammers. that and the 3 temples can be off loaded onto the two jap towns... they each have high production from mined hills.

50% culture when base is like over 100 is enough to stall a bit to get them. Get to number crunching that.

anyway hindu and tao is worth the push imo from the top of my head.

Cheers!
-Liq

Merzbow

Dec 23, 2005, 08:53 AM

The patch is nice (automated workers have the no-chop option, best addition), I assume we should all update and play patched now.

Liquidated

Dec 23, 2005, 11:09 AM

yeah I literally went from a late game large SG that was perma crashing just not even doing anything that was low detail everything...

for the patch I completely deleted civ period before reinstalling and patching.. far too fix em mods running about lol.

funny thing is after reinstall my setting went default back to high since my pc should be able to handle it...

and it's flawless at high with animation and multi units.... go figure.

amen about the leave forests alone switch! automated workers might be ok now.

Cheers!
-Liq

Zavior

Dec 24, 2005, 03:12 AM

I've got my civ up and running, patching at the moment. I probably will get around this after midnight.
EDIT: Aafasad, I still havent finished my GOTM. Gotta reinstall and stuff :/

Merzbow

Dec 27, 2005, 06:01 AM

Bump... Bump... Bump...

Liquidated

Dec 27, 2005, 06:15 AM

well I'd just go mertz. Z's been out a few days so far, holidays must have gotten him.

Cheers!
-Liq

Zavior

Dec 27, 2005, 06:19 AM

I'm ready to play. Playing as we speak.

Zavior

Dec 27, 2005, 06:52 AM

1838 AD

It will take 97 turns for London to get 50k culture, 104 turns for York and 80 for Notthingham. Any artist we get will even improve this.

1840

Tokugawa wants us to accept mercatilism. Nah.

1846

Start taoist padoga in York. In 4 turns.

1848

Montezuma adops nationhood.

1854

An English revolt has taken place in Tokyo!

1862

Salad's golden age has begun.

1866
Built a lot of redcoats, sent them around our empire. London could have few more.

At the moment we have 6 great artists, that means 2/city.
London will reach legendary culture in 52 turns(assuming we use 2 artists there, which we should)
York will need 49 turns.
Nottingham only 40 turns.

If we get another great artist that should probably be used in London.

http://img370.imageshack.us/my.php?image=civ4screenshot00009qw.jpg

Game should be over in 3 turnsets.

Merzbow

Dec 27, 2005, 09:20 AM

126 gpp in London, sweet. Probably a good idea to continue building redcoats instead of culture, doesn't look like anyone is close to space yet and we of course can't trust Monte and Capac.

Liquidated

Dec 27, 2005, 03:25 PM

tokyo would own for several reasons... one is if we get 6 cities, worth another round of cathedrals... if york can spit one out in 4 turns... well go for it! 50% to culture is not trivial at this level of culture output.

also any wonders toku has would be in tokyo... so more fun!

the loss of 4 towns for toku will really gimp him as a military threat to us.

anyway keep london on culture as it's hammers really suck now lol and making redcoats there isn;t worth it.

this is shaping up to be a very interesting game.

Cheers!
-Liq

Merzbow

Dec 29, 2005, 12:24 AM

Turn 1:

Wow... look how far ahead Sally is on the power graph. More than TWICE as powerful as Capac. We chose our allies well (i.e. smelled a loser and abandoned our former ally more like it :lol:).

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b79/merzbow4242/Zav04/Turn08/Civ4ScreenShot0000.jpg

Nobody has Apollo yet, good.

6 GAs waiting in London, good. We pop one about every 15-20 turns. We should expect to have about 10 for the win.

Each city needs about 25k culture to go legendary, on average 400 per turn. A 75k deficit in total. Without GAs, we would need about 62 more turns to win. With just our 6 GAs now, we'd win in about 42 turns. But we're popping a new GA about every 15 turns, so my best guess is for a win in about 35 turns. We'll see.

All the additional redcoats are killing our treasury due to Pacifism, but do we care? Naah, not yet. When the gold begins to run down then just switch away from Pacifism, we'll have almost all the artists we need by then.

Heh now that's new. Sally has dropped his pact with Peter and formed one with Toku.

No decent trades to be made.

With all these bloody redcoats even a bunch of tanks would be hard-pressed to take us out - and nobody can even build tanks yet. You don't gain more than 10% cpt for building culture it seems, so we'll continue building units.

Too bad Toku tried to force his idiotic civic on us twice and thus we lost the OB. I notice he is 'close friends' with Montezuma too. Prick.

I micro London to starve for another artist. I'm going to alternate it between a +1 and -1 food surplus to ratchet out the extra artist points.

Turn 2:

Nothing really to do here. I suspect this is going to be a relatively boring/peaceful set of turns.

May as well micro Satsuma to grow and put some cottages there (not that it matters now but our workers are growing fat and lazy).

Turn 3:

:sleep:

Turn 4:

Guess who joined the party? That's right folks:

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b79/merzbow4242/Zav04/Turn08/Civ4ScreenShot0002.jpg

We will get the extra cathedrals after all.

Turn 5:

:sleep:

Turn 6:

Capac demands we cancel our deals with the Arabs. I tell him to take his shiny yellow helmet and put it someplace where it won't shine so much anymore.

I get Peter to convert to Judaism for 570 gold, heh. We'll see if this lasts. It costs us half our gold, but I'm forced to turn culture down to 90% anyways because of the rising costs of our army.

Turn 7:

Pete boasts of his tanks. Hmm. Is he ahead of Sally in techs?

Turn 8:

Zzz.

Turn 9:

Zzz.

Turn 10:

Zzz.

Turn 11:

Zzz.

Turn 12:

Zzz.

Turn 13:

Toaize Satsuma.

Monte has passed Sally in score? Odd. He's still way behind it tech it looks.

Toku has somehow become Pleased with us again so I retake OB.

Turn 14:

Zzz.

Turn 15:

Artist #7 born in London.

We are bleeding money, I switch our culture cities to banks/markets/culture. We can't dump Pacifism yet because we dearly need more GAs from London. And furthermore looking at the civics page it doesn't appear that dumping Pacifism would save us anything at all (although I can't help but think this must be wrong). I think we'll just have to make do with the units we've got now.

I'm building temples in our newly liberated Japanese domos, but their production is slow enough that I doubt this is going to make much of a difference in the game.

I notice da budda has spread to us, again not that it matters at this point.

Now that Peter is Jewish again he's ressurected his pact with Sally. If Capac so much as breaks wind in any direction, he is gonna get his ass dropped like Holyfield on Tyson:

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b79/merzbow4242/Zav04/Turn08/Civ4ScreenShot0006.jpg

To next player:

Umm, keep the faith? Don't lose?

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b79/merzbow4242/Zav04/Turn08/Civ4ScreenShot0007.jpg

Liquidated

Dec 29, 2005, 02:01 AM

ok will pick up game before anyone wakes up lol.

thinking the cathedrals are indeed too late to matter but well I'll see lol.

we at the point where our diplo is far more important than the redcoats so NOT building a few military units is pretty good idea.. I'll see.

Facinating to see nottingham take first in both per turn culture and total culture. Really nice how our three cities are so closely balanced.

Cheers!
-Liq

Zavior

Dec 29, 2005, 03:06 AM

Lets see if we can finish this today, looks so!

Liquidated

Dec 29, 2005, 05:04 AM

preturn: ok interesting, we still have alot of obsolete troops (as if redcoats aren;t obsolete!) like a 0 exp warrior left. that's gone. a gold saved. start removing all the obsolete troops as we do not have the gold to upgrade them... leave shaggy and Violent J as they are the bomb.

ok went from -34 a turn to -7.... those obsolete troops were a serious drain we should have gotten rid of them sooner... but oh well.. gonna build a few recoats to make up for the loss.

ok dial up monty and get 30 gold + astronomy for constitutiuin and liberalism... trade favors monty but what the heck do we lose?

Also trade our stone for his cows... and just like that londons's population is stable with 6 artist specs!! rather have the health then the wonder building material.

trade one of our copper and our marble to toku for 5 gold a turn AND cows... london is now pulling in +1 food

york now is pulling in +2 food so stop working a farm at 3 food a turn and work a forests putting out 1 food and 3 hammers. York is stable 32-32 food and is putting out 199 culture a turn now on the build culture setting.

in nottingham I stop working two of the farm plains and stabilize food to 32-32 = 0, nottingham is pulling in 5 more hammers on the f1 screen.

I wake up the workers to farm the squares around osaka that were never improved...

tokyo need a tile improved as well... will get to it.

see no reason to build observatories btw except in london who's hammers just suck lol....

We are now -2 gold /turn with 356 in bank @ 90% culture and nottingham is scoring a bank next turn... yup folks more redcoats!!!!

ok can I start my turn yet?

[1]1902 AD
Democracy comes in asks if we want o go to emance... uh only reason we even have research is from representation and well we are at +4 gold a turn... so no.

move onto military tradition in um 22

Bank comes in at nottingham... market in 5, the red coats can come from the jap towns..

monty changes to representation.

Izumo is now 64% jap... lets see how that goes.

[2]1904 AD
change out satsuma from working water to those new cottages will take ten turns to equal the output.

Izumo is 63% jap so it's going down.

[3]1906 AD
haha toku scored a town on monties island...
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/liquidated/tokutown.jpg

[4]1908 AD
osaka completes it's jewish temple, goes to buddist temple in 5.

tokyo completes it's confused temple... go theatre in 5.

[5]1910 AD
Saladin completes Apollo =/ the race is on!

[6]1912 AD
Nottingham completes market... change over to culture.

peter is taoist again.

+5 gold a turn 90% culture.. -50 at 100%... haha leaving it at 90% rofl.

[7]1914 AD
All's quiet on the western front. (get it??? ... sigh)

[8]1916 AD
putting the workers to sleep in various towns..
north jap town finishes it's confused temple, auto moves to market.. I'll review that in a sec. before I forget, change York to a confused cathredral in 5 turns now that we have 6/6 temples.

change north jap town to a harbor in 11... +50% from traderoutes is worth the extra time over market.

[9]1918 AD
south jap town finishes it's bud temple... lets see.

saladin completes his first SS casing

hahahaha great scientist puts 1700 beakers towards scienific theory... what the hell go for it as it reletes our 2 free scientists mucking up the GP points. 11 turns on scientific now leaving military tradition alone.

[10]1920 AD

Bad news, monty wants us to cancel our pacts with saladin, no can do. have no choice but to refuse.

he's still cautious and trade him our democracy for his military tradition... sigh

Peter completes rock and roll. least it's not saladin!

[11]1921 AD
For some reason Izumo takes back a town tile from samsuma =/ ug think he culture bombed...

another casing for saladin, that's his second one.

[12]1922 AD
london finishes market... LOL can build globe wonder in 27 turns ROFL. go for pure culture...
monty assumes freespeech, freemarket and emancipation... interesting, not exactly war civics.

peter builds eiffel tower...

yah izumo got a culture bomb, he's losing hold of that town tile

[13]1923 AD
York finished confused cathedral.. move back to culture ourput... f1 shows york spitting out 469 culture a turn, only 3 behind nottingham. london is hurting per year but totals are holding strong still..

[14]1924 AD
saladin finishes his third SS casing

Capac changes to emancipation... needless to say we are WELL over our threshold in terms of happy citizens such that everyone but us can be emance and we still don;t care.

[15]1925 AD
LOL even iron man toku moves to freetrade.

A gp next turn at london I queued up monestaries in the jap towns simply because if we ever want to build them they are in queue.. as scienintific is incoming in 6 turns.

gold is fine at +10 a turn if anyone wants to attack us they will steam roll us no matter how many effing redcoats we build.

7 great artists still

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/liquidated/1925_city_screen.jpg

Nottingham is 28 turns from 50k culture naturally. that stat alone tells me this was my last round win or lose.

York is 31 turns from 50k by natural progression... that equates into the following; 28 turns york will be needing 1549 culture or one artist.

london brings up the rear such that not even worth trying to figure out it's natural growth rate to 50k.

Instead, in 28 turns london(i.e. berlin :smoke:) will need 5691 culture still or 2 artists... so even if we no longer get another artist that leaves 4 unaccounted for

so lets see if 1 artist culture bomb for nottingham york london and well nottingham alone to make my job at 3 am easier... 19 turns to hit 50k with the rest culture bombing same time...

that leaves one more artist to play with ... and next GP you KNOW is not an artist.. not 100% sure but think that's our last GP.

there's no real reason to stay with pacifism except sheer avoidance of a turn of anarchy. same goes fo keeping parthion wonder active by avoiding chemistry... next GP is our last GP. only tech worth getting at this point is biology and well it's too late to be useful.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/liquidated/diplo_1925.jpg

Free religion is a bad idea FYI because the only reason toku tolerates us is our shared religion and he has a ton of troops.

I leave the game in your guys' capable hands. Win or lose, we are at the end.

Saladin is the only civ to start on the spaceship and he;ll never finish it in time to worry us. this game comes down to staying alive beegee's style

Cheers!
-Liq