Age Of Discovery Scenario for Civ4:

The date is 1492 and Spanish explorer Christopher Columbus has just discovered Cuba. The Hundred Years war between England and France has been over for a few years now, and the only English presence on the mainland is Calais. The War of the Roses is over in England, with the Tudor line now on the throne. Portugal has explored down the African west coast, and Genoa is the major trading port in Western Europe. The Arabs have conquored most of North Africa, except for Morocco. Burgandy has broken apart and their lands taken by Saxony, France and the Duchy of Holland.

Europe is on the brink of social, economic and religious reform as it leaves the Middle Ages and enters the Renaisance. Scientists are making major discoveries in all fields and the people are feeling the effects of new social freedoms with the end of serfdom. History is yours for the making.

Play as one of the major nations of the era, colonizing the New World, expanding your trade Empire, and using your new found wealth to teach your enemies in Europe a lesson. Can you re-write history in your favour?

Map: Western Europe + North Africa + Eastern/Central North America + Carribean. [Size: 108*81]
Coloniser nations: England, Holland, France, Spain, Portugal
Minor nations: Scotland, Saxony, Genoa, Ottomans, Aztec, Maya, Natives

Current versions:
Age of Discovery: v1.12 - 21/11/2006 - EGE Edition
Age of Discovery: v1.0 - 27/08/2006 - MAC Compatible

The Age of Discovery scenario has been attached to this post. This release finalises the AoD scenario. There will be no further work to this scenario done.

PLEASE DELETE THE "Age of Discovery" FOLDER FROM YOUR MODS FOLDER BEFORE INSTALLING!

I hope you have fun with this scenario. :)

Install instructions:

1. Download the zip file here:
v1.12 Windows - http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=3667
v1.0 MAC only - http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=2610
2. Unzip to the root of your "Sid Meiers Civilization 4" directory. Files will be placed in the correct locations. (The AoD scenario folder will be created within the "Mods" folder).
3. Start Civ4 and select Single Player and Play a Scenario.
4. Select the Age of Discovery scenario and allow Civ4 to restart to load the settings.
5. Choose your leader etc, and off you go. :)

Version History:

v1.12 - 21/11/2006

- Texts finished (finally ;) ).
- New! Pirates & Traders added to mod to depict the battle between merchants, pirates and pirate hunters.
- New! An intro movie has been added to the mod. This is the first mod to contain an intro movie.
- Fixed religion/wonder movie crash bug.
- Minor bug fixes.

v1.0 - 27/08/2006

- Civics: Turn off "No non-state religion spread" for Theocracy
- Religion: Add Catholic back in
- Religion: Eliminate Protestant religion (all non-Catholic European religions are protestant)
- Religion: Slow Catholic / Muslim / Pagan spread and increase dramatically other religions
- Texts: Completed
- Map: Fish added across map
- Map: Catholic added to all European cities as required
- Map: Eliminate Muslim / Catholic / Pagan Holy Cities

Beta3 - 02/01/2006

- Buildings: Check all buildings
- Civics: move Free Market to macro-economics
- Civics: look at other placements
- Units: Bombard/cannon fixup
- Units: Delete unique units
- Units: Names for Indian units
- Concepts: check all correct
- Civs: Leaderheads & flags
- Civs: add North American Indians
- Civs: start techs for Indians
- Civs: making Indians hate the Europeans
- DoM: typo
- Religion: speed up spreading
- Religion: change christianity to pagan religion
- Religion: graphics

Beta2 - 08/12/2005

- Texts in other languages
- Arab leader: Sulyman?
- Explored squares in New World
- City diversity: pop size, units
- Cordoba --> Sevilla, Vigo --> Santiago
- Scoring victory condition?
- City lists (Major civs)
- Scottish spelling
- Barb gunpowder units removed
- City food shortages
- Dawn of Man text
- European gold/silver to go
- Macemen --> Men at Arms
- Arquebusier cost/balance
- Starting civics
- Tech tree: more cross pre-reqs
- General unit tweaking
- Consolidate text xml files
- AI helper
- Spain/Portugal settler-explorer on land

Beta1 - 29/11/2005

Beta1 only has the techs, units, religions, buildings and some texts in at this point. However it's completely playable.

Dale

Screen1: Northern Europe
Screen2: Southern Europe
Screen3: Land ho! Discovering the New World!
Screen4: Meeting the natives

Dale

I would love to help you with this, I spent a great deal of time making one for civ 3 so I have a lot of good information put together. I'll for sure start testing the beta soon. Thank you for starting this! Its my favorite era.

Great start to the scenario. One of my favorite time periods.

Just promise you won't add units unless they are well made. Also keep in mind that keeping units balanced is very difficult. Best to leave values default if you can.

I love this Dale! Thank you!

Only bugs I've found are the lutheran and protestant denominations have Jewish temples and symbols etc

And now that I'm in the 1570s it lags BAD and CTDs a lot.

Whenever I capture Oran, it stalls, CTDs, or now it gave me the dreaded blue screen of death :(

I'm also experiencing very serious lags. And i agree, that those religion symbols should be changed to more suitable ;)
But overall, a very good scenario :)

This should really be under the Completed Scenario sub forum. CFC Forums are a little more organized than Apolytons ;)

This should really be under the Completed Scenario sub forum. CFC Forums are a little more organized than Apolytons ;)

But it's not completed. ;)

Beta2 will hopefully be out soon. It'll fix a lot of issues found, as well as adding in more stuff (hopefully all bar the python scripting).

Thanks for trying it, and keep those suggestions coming. :)

Dale

Few suggestions. First you should change the icons for the new techs, not a must but would be nice, also remove all the techs that are out of the range of this scenario, also I don't know if you did this but make the religions protestant and catholic, then you have that aspect of the game, also you need incentive for AI to go the new world so someone that scripts needs to volunteer to help us and make some sort of advantage to colonizing as a means of wealth from commerce and gold and silver.

Its an amazing start though, if this is beta its already much better and complete than 98% of civ 3 mods. I'll keep playing it and test for more ideas.

Also we need to get a new skin for the cavalry unit, I hate that American Cavalry design, so unrealistic to every other country. It should like the one from civ 3.

anything you want me to do for this other than test? I'm so excited to see such a cool scenario made...

Also I'm not usually a proponent of adding new units because it tends to throw off balance and custom units made on this site are usually not the best, but there needs to be more naval units...like a ship of the line, bigger than the frigate.

okay last post in a row I promise but things keep coming to me...

You know how in civ 3 it listed the city names that each nation had for new cities? So that when spain settled the default name was "Hispaniola"? instead of now where it says "Seville", this would be good to do, if theres an easy way in civ 4. Englands first would be Jamestown and on down the line. We could just copy the names from the civ 3 age of dicovery.

Okay, let me answer some of your questions:

1. Graphics will be one of the last elements updated. No point creating graphics for things that might get trashed later. :)

2. There will be incentive for the AI to move west. This can be done through python.

3. SOTL is actually in. Activated by Sextant at the same time as Indiaman comes available.

4. City lists are currently being put in for the civs. BTW, Roanoke is the first English colony. ;)

Dale

sweet! .................................

4. City lists are currently being put in for the civs. BTW, Roanoke is the first English colony. ;)

Dale

Bah, the first English colony was St. John's, Newfoundland, 3 years before Roanoke. ;)

anyways I can't believe how efficiently this mod is being put together... it shall exceed all my expections of the modding communities abilities.

What about the protestant/catholic religions?

But it's not completed. ;)Scenarios are hardly ever truly completed here on CFC - they are all more or less 'work in progress' and the same goes for 'Completed mods' :D

The main General Creation and Costumization forum is normally used for questions, request and debates about modding and scenario making in general. :)

also you need incentive for AI to go the new world so someone that scripts needs to volunteer to help us and make some sort of advantage to colonizing as a means of wealth from commerce and gold and silver.
Actually, AI does go to the new world, in game i played AI controlled Spain quickly managed to send settlers to new world :crazyeye:

I respect the fact hes no calling it complete and I'm sick of the modders that post incomplete work in the complete section. It ruins credibility.

As for the AI and colonizing, its clear that they do it, but still there ought to be some type of economical gain from the new world. It was a fever to make colonies and bring the wealth to the home country, we should simulate that.

Okay played more for awhile and hers some thoughts:

Playability:

- Tech tree

Riflemen come to early and the bayonet unit to late, should be switched. I had rifleman in the 1500's, a 19th century technology. Cavalry comes to early as well, this unit probably represents the variey used in the 18th century as well as 19th, but I had it before rifleman.

- New World

I found little reason to be there. The constant barrage by barbarians was realistic but without the real world benefits, it seemed pointless. I could have just focused on taking mary over or some other weak nation instead. I would start by putting more resources in the carribean and you'll need to get a python guy to come up with something else. Perhaps a way of generating precious shipments as in civ 3 and allowing for some privateering fun by enabling the capture of these.

- Barbarians

They beging using swordsman and maceman and even musketman. This needs to stopped. Nothing but warriors, archers and horse archers if you ask me.

- Diplomacy

this is more of a question, did you make leanings to favor nations in this game? Mary should be tied to France and Spain should hate the aztecs and want to declare war on them as soon as they find them. I'm pretty sure this is possible rather easily, you tell me. I didn't notice any war from spain against aztecs or any other nations for that matter besides Portugal. Probably a good idea to make them have good relations with Portugal.

- AI and colonization

I think they agreed with me and saw little reason to go over therte. I didn't notice any AI colonies yet.

- Civics

Some of these should be changed or removed or just not possible. The governments should reflect more accurately as it was in this period.




Aesthetic (Most of these things you likely know already but I'm mentioning them so you can reference just in case):

- Religion

I would instead of changing the name of present religions, model each denomination after christianity. That way the music for them are the same and more fitting. Of course this won't be of any use until you have different icons, just a thought so you don't have to search for new music for each.

Misc.

- Mod should start in the late middle ages, music is more fitting. Plus you can take away some techs and make it more fun I think by having to advance into the new era. You start out with a lot and not a lot to look forward to.

- Railroad wokrer option, though not enabled should be removed.

- Musketeer looks far to French to be a generic for all Civs. I also don't see the reason of having an in between when really it reflects the same era as the regular musketman. Just have it take awhile to advance to the bayonet. That should be the upgrade, then later the rifleman.


Okay thats it. But I do want to conclude with that I find it very playable and enjoyable even though you haven't finished it yet. The map was very well done and city placement is superb. I really enjoy the various factions you have and the look and feel is very fitting. I cannot wait to see it completed.

I don't know wheter this was discussed. You should make an Aztec religion to let Mozentuma have a religion. Just an idea to throw around.

Yes this is needed because they immediatly adopt the first religion that comes their way.

Well now that I think about it, maybe this should happen because when Spain conquers them, Christianity should be spread.

Yes but only if Spain actually conquers them. The AI is not doing that now.

Are they just allowing them to be?
Cant you edit Python to have Spain invade Aztec in year X?

I'm sure but I don't think this has been done yet. My suggestion is to make Spain hate aztecs and vice versa with the diplomacy attributes.

yeah thats probably the way to go.

I really like the idea of this scenario. I would include Denmark, Sweden, Courland, Scotland and Germany as major nations as well if I were you. These nations tried to colonize america as well and some of them actually managed to get footholds for quite some time (Denmark until 1917 and Sweden until 1878). Also some of them were important players in the european theatre.

I would advise against adding new civs until gameplay is balanced.

How close are we to maybe seeing a beta 2.0 or something? Hows it coming along?

Any new developments? Let us know as you have some serious anticipation here ;)

I'm sure but I don't think this has been done yet. My suggestion is to make Spain hate aztecs and vice versa with the diplomacy attributes.

Actually, look at the Python in the Greek World mod. There is a script there which swaps territories between nations on certain turns to simulate various wars, such as Alexander's conquests, the Punic Wars, et cetera.

To all,

Beta2 should be out in the next few days. If not tomorrow, then thursday. :)

BTW, a lot of the recent suggestions can be done via python. I'll be looking at each one later, after the core of the scenario is finished. By Beta3 some python should be showing through. :)

Dale


AoD TODO List!
--------------

- Texts in other languages DONE
- Arab leader: Sulyman? DONE
- Explored squares in New World DONE
- City diversity: pop size, units DONE
- Europe begin diplomacy
- Cordoba --> Sevilla, Vigo --> Santiago DONE
- Scoring victory condition? DONE
- City lists MAJORS DONE
- Scottish spelling DONE
- Leaderheads
- Barb gunpowder units removed DONE
- City food shortages DONE
- Minor civs. Playable or not? PLAYABLE!
- Game hints on load to AoD ones?
- Dawn of Man text DONE
- European gold/silver to go DONE
- Macemen --> Men at Arms. DONE
- Arquebusier cost/balance
- Starting civics
- Tech tree: more cross pre-reqs
- General unit tweaking
- Consolidate text xml files DONE
- AI helper DONE

Can't wait! ;) Let me know if you want me to do anything.

Beta2 will be given a run-through before upload.

Hopefully the changes I made are to your liking.

Dale


AoD TODO List!
--------------

- Texts in other languages DONE
- Arab leader: Sulyman? DONE
- Explored squares in New World DONE
- City diversity: pop size, units DONE
- Europe begin diplomacy CANCELED
- Cordoba --> Sevilla, Vigo --> Santiago DONE
- Scoring victory condition? DONE
- City lists MAJORS DONE
- Scottish spelling DONE
- Leaderheads
- Barb gunpowder units removed DONE
- City food shortages DONE
- Minor civs. Playable or not? PLAYABLE!
- Game hints on load to AoD ones?
- Dawn of Man text DONE
- European gold/silver to go DONE
- Macemen --> Men at Arms. DONE
- Arquebusier cost/balance DONE
- Starting civics DONE
- Tech tree: more cross pre-reqs DONE
- General unit tweaking DONE
- Consolidate text xml files DONE
- AI helper DONE

can't wait ;)

Beta2 is now available for testing. :)

Please see the first post in this thread.

IMPORTANT: PLEASE DELETE THE "Age of Discovery" FOLDER FROM YOUR MODS FOLDER! OTHERWISE YOU MAY HAVE PROBLEMS WITH THE TEXTS IN-GAME!

Dale

Did tech tree adjustments fit into non xml? Because i think the tech tree still needs a great deal of work.

Rifling allows musketmen? They are using muskets not rifles, rifling would have brought about rifleman, a 19th century arsenal.

Also I notice that bayonet comesmuch later than rifleman still which is inaccurate, and cavalry comes rather early. Also is there really a need for 2 cannon units?

The civics still allow too much, representation should come with research as well as nationhood and free market. Freedom of religion should not appear at all.

Also the nations still have unique units listed in their opening screen text.

I really like the idea of this scenario. I would include Denmark, Sweden, Courland, Scotland and Germany as major nations as well if I were you. These nations tried to colonize america as well and some of them actually managed to get footholds for quite some time (Denmark until 1917 and Sweden until 1878). Also some of them were important players in the european theatre.

Germany wasnt really a full nation at this time. They were smaller groups. The current saxony civ represents them well enough.

While Denmark and Sweeden might have colonized a little they were never big players. They would also cause the map to be redrawn. Changing the northern saxony city to denmark would just weaken them for France which already whoops up on saxony as it is.

I'm loving the mod. Cant wait to test out beta2

Rifling allows musketmen? They are using muskets not rifles, rifling would have brought about rifleman, a 19th century arsenal.

"Rifling" is not the invention of the rifle. Rifling is the method of cutting grooves into the inside of the barrel of a gun to force the shot to turn as it leaves the barrel. This shortens the length of the shot but increases accuracy dramatically over straight-shot guns.

Musket: Muzzle-loaded, long-barreled gun with explosive and shot seperate (your pour the powder into the barrel and put the shot on it).

Rifle: Long-barreled, single shot gun with explosive and shot contained in one container (like a bullet).

Therefore, "rifling" as used as a technology is NOT the rifle. Rifles came later once the flintlock enabled a single container with powder and shot in it (at that stage it was in a leather pouch). Hence, musket comes with rifling, rifle comes with flintlock. :)

Also I notice that bayonet comesmuch later than rifleman still which is inaccurate, and cavalry comes rather early. Also is there really a need for 2 cannon units?

There were some bayonets around earlier, but they weren't in general use. The plug bayonet converted the musket into a pike (you couldn't fire the musket). Also, nearly all plug-bayonets in the early 1600's - early 1700's were just a knife shoved into the barrel of the musket. With the evolving musket design no standard bayonet was used until 1715 when the English assigned the Bess-musket as the standard issue gun to infantry. Only then could mass-produced and used bayonets be applied. Hence the standard bayonet (the design used as standard right to today) appeared in 1725.

The civics still allow too much, representation should come with research as well as nationhood and free market. Freedom of religion should not appear at all.

Genoa had a representative government (modelled off Venice's). That era is ALL about nationhood! Free market, yes probably should move to a later date (macro-economics probably). Freedom of religion? It was a choice in those days, usually associated with excommunication and war, but still a choice a lot of eastern European countries took. ;)

Also the nations still have unique units listed in their opening screen text.

That needs to be fixed up. :)

Dale

BTW, cavalry made a big comeback in the late 16th century, and was demonstrated by their use in 1620 to win battles.

Cavalry has never really disappeared, just less used between the knight and armed cavalry of 1600's.

Dale

On rifles/muskets...there was a lot of evolution...from arqubusiers...to matchlock muskets, to flintlock muskets, including the addition of bayonets and rifled barrels. Early rifles were much more accurate than muskets, but took much longer to load, as they had to be loaded 'manually' unlike musket cartridges, which you could just rip open and pour down the barrel. This is represented in the fact that for a time many skirmisher/light infantry type units used rifles, whilst regular/line infantry used muskets.

On cavalry: their predominance in european armies waned and waxed with the passing of time, weapon technologies and perceptions. Sometimes they were only used for foraging/scouting duties, at other times they made up the most important component in the armies. One thing is certain though: From 500 BC up to 1940 Horses have been key element in almost every european army. Possibly knights could be re-skinned to look like mounted explorers, with moderate offensive capabilities :)

Obviously some compromise on detail needs to be made for gameplay :) As it is now it is fine, even if it is not perfect. There are more 'urgent' changes needed, such as naval warfare, diplomacy, civics, etc. Small details can be fine tuned and ironed out later :)

The new version looks great Dale. I can't wait to get home and play.

Bayonets came before rifleman.

Rifles are guns with rifling in the barrel. The British regular in the 18th century used a smooth bore musket. Therefore your tech tree needs adjusting.

As far as civics rather or not they were a choice in reality, for a playability you don't want all the nations choosing those which they likely will, thus becoming unrealistic.

lifeaquatic:

Rifles are not specifically guns with rifling. Some muskets had rifling too, and some rifles are smooth-bore (even today). Take this smooth bore rimfire rifle: http://www.gunshopfinder.com/savage/savageMarkIGSB.asp The Springfield 1855 & 1861 are good examples of rifled muskets.

The English infantry used the Long Land Musket (Brown Bess musket) from 1722 to 1838 as standard issue. It was a .75 calibre muzzle-loader with ramrod and split-bayonet attachment, with seperate gunpowder and shot (84 grains if I remember correctly). They came in different standards with each standard having a different barrel length, but all other features the same. They were sold to Mexico and appeared in their forces past 1850.

So as it stands, the progression of infantry weapons is staying as it is. No changes.

BTW, if you are using Wikipeadia as your source of information don't. It's wrong and contradictory. There's even two pages where one says "all rifled guns are rifles" and then a complete heading on "rifled muskets". I've never held much weight on information from Wikipeadia as it's all done by the public, not official sources. There's some good information there, but I've found the majority of stuff is just plain wrong or not the truth or not the complete story.

Beginning European diplomacy is not changing either. All nations start neutral to each other, otherwise you'd have France taking over Genoa in the first few years every game, and Spain & Portugal wasting its armies on the Arabs over colonising. None of us want Spain & Portugal to stop colonising as it would kill the gameplay.

Civics are still open for discussion, but apart from moving Free Market to macro-economics I fail to see a convincing arguement (on either forum) to change them round heaps.

I'm choosing gameplay over realism. If its reality you want, go play EU2.

Dale

haha, that was my favourite game, eu2, but well, now i am playing civ4:D

I think i have saw you around there.

Hi,

I haven't tried out the mod yet but from what I have read it seems to me that it is easier to conquer the AI neighbors in Europe than colonize the New World, which is exactly opposite from real history.
Could you possibly create a very good (only defensive) unit that can't be built but is only in European home cities. This would cause the wars to be fought out more in the New World, reflecting history.
Also I am not sure if you have already done so, but decrease the Maintenance costs so that New World Cities are less costly and more profitable?

Anyway, the mod sounds really cool and I am going to download once i finish this message.

Patricius

There's a mod called "Europa Europa" out which has you play in Europe. There are some religious icons there, maybe you could take a look 'n if you like them ask the guy if you could use some of them? He added more civics too, but I don't know how useful those would be for this scenario.

Here's the thread: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=144971

#1) Those icons were a direct rip from EU2... I don't think Paradox has noticed, but they really should complain a bit as that was illegal. Hopefully he will send them a note and get that over with. In the mean time, using them is a breach of forum rules...

#2)I'm glad that this thread is no longer being hardcore spammed... makes it easier to follow.

#3) Easiest way to get the ai to move over to the new world would be to increase ship move rates and decrease distance corruption. That proved true in C3, and will most likely prove true in C4.

#4) Any word on flagging units as treasure? If so, you could add in a plantation system using flag generated units (G. Merchant graphic resized would probably be good... not sure if you can resize anymore... bah!) and local resource requirements to convince the ai to move over there.

#5) Is there a VP system? If so, just plop VPLs in various RL colony locations. At worst, the ai will just drop troops. At best, colonies!

#6) With one of my earlier (and failed) modding attempts at this period, I found that (at least in C3) the ai responds positively (in terms of settlements) to required resources necessary for powerful units that only they can see. Humans did too :P

#7) Is there a way to create 'choke points' in the ocean in order to force meaningful, location control based, naval combat? If so, this would definitely be conducive to large scale naval combat... since the ships would all be in the same general locale.

Thanks for taking up an era I have always loved (and consistenly been unable to mod, mostly due to time concerns). Expect me to ***** about the navies a lot (ask Rhye... I whined til the ships moved _fast_... but everyone seemed to like it :P), but to generally love whatever comes out of here!

Bugs
Map latitudes do not line up (SERIOUS)
Andrea Doria was not Doge (refused title), but Admiral (or perhaps Censor).
Fish (water resources in general) are missing.
Religions... (Had about four spawn in Amsterdam on turn 3)
Wonders (replace or remove...)
Hole w/o culture middle of France
Placed city name bug
Bermuda is missing


Countries
Saxony (covers too many cities)
Holland (anachronistic in the extreme)
Turks (again, anachronistic. Use Kingdoms of Morocco and Algeria)

Navarre?
Grenada?
Papal States?


There is a slew of other issues which are not technically bugs, but are more anachronisms or misnomers.

Anachronism
Catapults should be cannon
Aquaduct


{I'm late for class and will finish filling this out later}

How's this coming Dale? I'm loving EuropaEuropa, but I want to Explore the New World as well. :)

don't spam hardcore there woodelf ;)

Looking good so far, on the game I'm playing. Noticed that religious missionaries are still the old types (and structures), only with the description saying they spread the new type - Hindu Missionary, spreads Protestantism.

Although I did find it funny when the Tech Advisor recommended researching Syphallus, for Growth...

any new developments?

The Mod is still coming along slowely. It's been a very busy two weeks for me IRL. :)

Dale

Damn, I hate when RL gets in the way of mod developement. :)

Keep plugging away Dale, it sounds like it's worth waiting for.

another idea, try replacing the graphics of the cavalry with those of the cossack, a much better fit for european nations. The regular cavalry graphics are very stupid for any nation except the USA. What idiot at firaxis made the decision to put that in the game?

Beta3 is on the way soon! :)

Lots of updates, and lots of stuff finalised. Stay tuned.

In the meantime, here's the full parade of nations......

*from left --> right, top --> bottom*

England, France, Spain, Muslim, Holland, Maya, Saxony, Genoa, Portugal, Aztec, Scotland, Natives.

Mm, i see one new civ - natives. I hope they'll also be playable... or are those just barbarians with different flag ?

Good to see you're still working on this Dale.

Do you consider replacing Arabs with Ottomans?

AoD Announcement: Beta3 released!

In the first post of this thread you will find the Beta3 download link!

At this point everything is complete except for texts in the game.

Any comments, bugs, suggestions welcomed. :)

Dale

Excellent. Of course now I'm at work, but I'll be looking at this one later on tonight.

W00t W00t... are the normans in the game?

Just started plaz. I like the scenario. Huazna Capac was an Inca. For Maza leader I recommend either Pacal )Palenque= or Smoke Jaguar )Yaxchilan)

Any comments, bugs, suggestions welcomed. :)

DaleI really like the map. I also like the time period, so hopefully this will be a great scenario, once if it will be finished. :goodjob:

Actually I can't report any bugs, simply becouse I can't play the scenario now. I will have a look in the next days, I hope. Well I allready saw, there is still one (or more) icon missing; beside the fact, that all new techs still use the same icon. But I dont know wich technology has no icon.

Some words about the map. I guess, it is intentional, that there is no food in Europe? No sheeps, no cows, no fishes... nothing? :blush: Not sure, if I will like that. Well, it depend on what you are suggesting at this point in next versions. And then I think, the terrain could be a little more diverse. For example nearly the whole England is grasland. I would suggest some plain-fields, some more forests and so on. Of cource this count for the whole map, not only England...

Can you tell us/me something more about your plans? I would suggest adding some scenario specific units and buildings like different galleons or musketeers to the techtree, but I guess there are allready plans?

Thats for now, I really looking forward, it looks allready great.

One thing in AOD the strongly offends my sensibilities is the lack of a religion in SPain. I think they should be treated as having one from the start. Was there a specific reason why not?

One thing in AOD the strongly offends my sensibilities is the lack of a religion in SPain. I think they should be treated as having one from the start. Was there a specific reason why not?

Yes actually. In Beta1 and Beta2 all of Europe was Catholic. But as the other religions were discovered they never spread anywhere. So by eliminating religion from all European cities (better cuz now no one gets the +4 from same religion) it allowed for religious spread and nations being varying religions.

But if anyone can think of a way to incorporate Catholic without losing the religious spread of the others, then let me know. I'd love to have it in.

Dale

I've only played this scenario once so far and I chose to start as an underdog. I started with the Aztecs. I was quite surprised to see nearly all of my sized 2 cities go immediately in to starvation. I scrambled to make workers to create farms and obtain food resources. That's when I found out that my capitol and some other cities were in locations that precluded farms. They stayed size 1 until I could research the tech needed to spread irrigation.

Maybe adding some deer and fish would help. Creating a new resource like turkeys or some other native animal would be nice.

Another good addition would be the introduction of horses in the New World later in the game to reflect the escape or capture of them.

Finally I removed the "El" in my coastal city to get rid of the presumed Spanish influence.

All in all I liked this scenario. Thank you.

<<But if anyone can think of a way to incorporate Catholic without losing the religious spread of the others, then let me know. I'd love to have it in.>>

The only two things that come to mind are:
(1) Have only SPain as Catholic
(2) Add either "INquisition" or "Counter Reformation" as religions and have them start in Spain.


As it is Spain has no state religion which is no right. IN a pinch I might buy leaving it pagan but making paganism the state religion. Of couse that gives them that plus 4 with the Aztecs but that may be minor.

Not sure if you know about this yet but every Scottish colony is named "TEXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_" with the name of the city at the end. Not that big of a deal really, just thought you'd like to know.

Have not played the scenario yet. Downloaded and just finished reading all the notes. A thought on religion. I note in the regular game that the later religions come with one missionary. Is it possible to change that to a lot of missionaries - like 20? to spread Protestant?

Maybe it was my version that made this happen but it seems that all new Scottish cities in the new world have a bug that it is named after the coding rather than a simple name eg. txt_city_name_ sterling instead of sterling.

Well I allready saw, there is still one (or more) icon missing; beside the fact, that all new techs still use the same icon. But I dont know wich technology has no icon. Now I know, it was protestant. I'm not sure, if this happens with different techs too, or if it is only in German version. The shot shows the popup from researching Lutherism, the pink icon is Protestant. Pedia and techtree looks clean (protestant icon is visible).

I would suggest adding some scenario specific units and buildings like different galleons or musketeers to the techtree, ...I still don't know, if you are planing to add some more units (simply more ore a broader variety => different units for different civs available with same tech), but I allready made some "AoD" unitskins. For example a 17th Cent. Dragoon (http://www.civforum.de/attachment.php?attachmentid=46859) based on Civ4-Cavallry or two slightly different Galleons (http://www.civforum.de/attachment.php?attachmentid=46874) .

but I allready made some "AoD" unitskins. For example a 17th Cent. Dragoon (http://www.civforum.de/attachment.php?attachmentid=46859) based on Civ4-Cavallry or two slightly different Galleons (http://www.civforum.de/attachment.php?attachmentid=46874) .

And you haven't shared them with us yet?! :)

Btw, good work, Dale.

humm. the Portuguese are underpowered. A easy target for Spanish

Hmm, first what i want say is GOOD WORK:)

Catholic is missing, simply add a new technology on start-Catholicism(bad spelling i guess:) )
Mercantilism can come later, it was used by Luis XIV in 17 century(he was 1st), not at start AoD.... because i had big money advantage from merchants on start...:)
I have not problem with no bonus resources in Europa, because player must colonize for them and it is good.
Yeah again: add sea resources:)

excellent mod, have enjoyed playing as the Brits very much. My only minor gripe is the tech tree, playing on noble it is only 1580 and we all have irregulars, frigates etc which did not come about until at least the early 1700's. As somone said a few coastal rescources would have been nice as well.
Is there also a way to stop the Saxons, and Turks reaching America? as you all know historically that is rather inaccurate (except of course immigrants)

good job though, the best so far by far.

The riflemen and irregulars idea is a bit inconsistent.

An "irregular" should not be a more powerful unit than a rifleman.

Should be a slightly weaker unit but cheaper and a bit more mobile.

catholisme shouldn't be found in the game, it should already exist.
At least in spain, genau and souther or all of France. To prevent mass catholisme simply make sure calvinsime, protestantisme and anglicanisme(or something like that) do al ready exist. Anglicanisme in england and scotland, Not in ireland.
Calvinisme in the Netherlands, and top norther france and Bremen. And protestantisme in saxony, and north and east France.

Also I think the Dutch needs some changes. They are increadebly hard to play. To start change the name, for this periode it shouldn't be duchy of holland, but 'The Republic', or 'The United Provinces' or full out The Republic of the united Seven Provinces. but realy revome just holland because you then leave behind some major part of The Republic( I use this name to keep it short). And they shouldn't have theocarcy, the offical state religon was Calvisme with tolerance Also give them a way to gain a time of greatness such as happend in the 17th century, the Dutch golden age.

Couldn't you just put Catholicism in all of the cities of the countries who should have it, and reduce its spread rate to near 0? That way Catholicism would be in the game, but wouldn't become the only religion around. It could still be spread by way of missionaries. I think that would add a nice bit of realism to this scenario.

Dale - Got the chance to give your scenario a whirl. I think it is a fun scenario but there are things to improve -

1. As earlier said, some fish, etc would be a good idea especially considering the importance of fish as a food source in this era.

2. I am not sure if you really want the modern techs to be available at all. Seems to me you should stop before oil and coal to retain the era.

3. Some of your techs are not really effectively linked. A few more wonders linked to these new techs might add a little more spice to the game.

All in all a good effort!

I agree that the Dutch are incredibly hard to play

I gave it a shot as well. I liked the scenario a lot. I agree with Bob about adding some fish and cutting off the techs before the modern ones. Also the barbarians in America have maces. Maybe have them stick to bows and such fitting of native americans. Not sure how feasible that is though. Good work!

Several random points:

to force naval battles: make ALL naval units unable to enter 'ocean' and then create only one pathway of coast to the new world. this was used in civ 3 to allow early exploration of new world with galleys using strategic 'safe zones' of coast. not sure if map builder will allow coast not next to land but that would force major engagements over route to new world. Agree with adding machine gun style super strong city defender in old world that is unbeatable. on religion: have only one or two cities in old world with a religion turn religion spread to zero, i had islam spreading in spain before i could spread any for of christianity. make missionaries cheap. most techs do nothing, if you want to slow down tech level increase cost, having a bunch of techs that do nothing is boring. part of the fun is that you want to research that new tech to give you such and such advantage. great map by the way but i ignore the new world and focus on taking out the powers so having a super defensive unit at the key chokepoints is key, maybe make them unmovable and guarding the spain/france border and spain/portugal. also caravels with 2 unrestricted cargo is overpowered: ignore enemy borders drop tons of units off in first turn of war -> AI can never respond to multiple landings. I find that the only unit worht building prior to cavs is the artillery units as they are much more powerful and cause collateral automatically. great scenario and with only a little bit of work it could be a premier scenario. excellent!

1. Techs are too cheap(before 1600 i had steam power/irregullars/ships of the line/democracy.....)

2. some wonders(for example: statue of liberty) can give theire bonuses to all cities, no only on that continent.(I built statue of liberty in Irreland....:lol: )

3. Map: I miss South America and west coast of Africa, it can be nice have them:).

4. Add 1-2 cities to Netherland in Europe, they are too small.

My friend...no

1. Technologies aren't cheap if you're a minor peoples, leave them or possibly make them do more things.

3. The map is already full, no more please...

4. It adds to the challenge playing the Dutch

Great map, eight out of ten for style, ten out of ten for great thinking.

Dale, great work. Just wanted to give you (or any other modders who care to take the idea) some ideas about how the units could be be pretty much completely retooled to be more interesting, up to about the end of this scenario:

Archers (3), should (in addition to their current bonuses of +50% city and +25 hill) get a slight bonus against siege weapons (+25%?). I THINK that this will exentuate the mixed arms agenda of the game effectively.

Spearmen (4) should get +25% against mounted (=5), and +25% against melee (=5), general purpose ancient infantry.

Axemen (5) stay with +50% against melee (=7.5 vs 5 spears).

Horsemen should be a strength 5 (slightly weaker than a sword), but are otherwise fine as skirmishers who can sometimes run away.

Swordsmen should stay strength 6, but should get a bonus against melee weapons, not against cities.

Catapults (3) should come with MATHEMATICS instead of CONSTRUCTION, and should have +50% versus city, as well a+50% against melee (+50%). The city defenders of the ancient and classical era are archers (4.5 vs 5.25), spears (6 vs 4), and swords (6 vs 6).

With MACHINERY we then get Crossbowmen (4), +50% city defense (6), +25% hill defense. At strength 4 it counters catapults (6 vs 3) as well as +50% against melee (6 vs 6 for swordsmen in open, and 7 vs. 6 defending a city against melee). I had remembered crossbows being developed AFTER longbows, but in any case, that would involve even more Tech changes. Crossbows should also get a bonus against knights, say +50% (6 vs. 7 in the open, 8 vs. 7 if defending a city, 9 vs. 7 if defending a city on a hill).

CONSTRUCTION then gives us a better siege systems (e.g., siege towers, sappers, etc.) which can be represented by the unit trebuchet (3) +100% city attack. This unit is a partial counter to the crossbow as city defender (6 vs. 6), but not very good for much else.

Knights come with with GUILDS (7) +50% vs. melee (10.5 vs. 5 for spears, vs 6 for swords, or 9 for pikes). This makes knights good for what they were actually used for, dominating the open battlefield, but not good for attacking cities defended by crossbowmen (7 vs. 8 at best).

Longbows comes with FEUDALISM (4) +75% city defense (7), +25% hills (5), +75% vs. knights (7 vs. 7 in the open, 8 vs. 7 on hills, 11 vs. 7 defending a city, and 12 vs 7 defending a city on a hil).

Pikes, rather than being a counter to mounted units (+100% in the game settings), should simply be a counter to swordsmen, whereas longbows should be an intermediary counter to knights, and then arquebusier a pretty much total counter to knights.

Pikes (6) +50% vs. melee, +50% vs mounted (comes with ENGINEERING) are simply improved infantry, better spears, better armor, better organization. They are equally good at attacking or defending on the open battlefield (9 vs. melee and mounted), but not great at taking cities (6 vs. 7 if a longbow or crossbow are defending the city).

Longbowmen, the medieval city defender should be countered by a late medieval arty weapon of some sort, say a Trebuchet (4) +100% city attack (8 vs. 7 for longbow defending a city, 8 vs. 6 for crossbow defending a city), which should come with CIVIL SERVICE.

Macemen (6), the equivalent of "men-at-arms" late medieval professional / mercenary soldier types, should come with BANKING. These guys should be good at attacking cities (+75% city attack = 10.5 vs. 7 for a longbow or crossbowmen defending a city), fair at fighting knights (+10% against mounted = 6.6 vs. 7), but not exceptional at defending cities . Since swordsmen are also a 6 strength unit, macemen should also get a +20% against melee to make them ONLY slightly stronger than these classical era units (7.2 vs 6 for swordsmen, but only 7.2 vs. 9 for pikemen). Alexander the Greats infantry would not have been a lot different from those which Henry IV used at Agincourt). So macemen are good at storming cities, but not particularly good at fighting pitched open-area battles (7.2 vs. pikemen at 9).

Macemen will be good for storming cities (10.5 vs. 7 for the best city defenders), but out in the open, crossbows (6 vs. 6 on flat ground and 8 vs 6 on hills) will remain a reasonable defender against such forces, and large infantry forces, pikes (9 vs. 7.2) can still mow down these hired attackers.

Instead of musketman with GUNPOWDER, lets have arquebus with GUNPOWDER. Strength of 5, but 100% against mounted, shield cost slightly less than what a pikeman costs. This gives us a unit that can finally standup to the knight (read, penetrate their armor), but is not particularly good for much else, i.e., remains vulnerable to even ancient style masses of pikes and swordsmen, longbows or crossbows.

NATIONALISM gives a slight counter to the first primitive firearms in the form of cuirassiers (11).

With REPLACEABLE PARTS lets have muskets (6) with +75% against arrow units (9 vs. 7 for the best city defenders or arrow units), +25% vs. melee units (8 vs. 6 for pikes or swords, 8 vs 4 vs. spears), +75% vs. mounted (9 vs. 11 for cuirassiers, or 9 vs. 7 for knights). Whereas the very first firearms were only good as a counter to knights, and because they were slow and cumbersome needed defense against virtually any other unit, muskets are more versatile, they can actually attack and take a city, or defend a city, and defend themselves in the open battlefield, except they are underpowered relative to the cuirassiers. Whereas the arquebus was simply a counter to knights on the open battlefield, the musket is actually STARTING to force changes in the late medieval tradition of defending cities with longbows and crossbows

Apart from perhaps a light cavalry unit (e.g., along the lines of a Hussar) and perhaps a flintlock (both of which should be toward the very end of this scenario) that should pretty much cover all your land units. Other possible units would include something like a spy also toward the very end of the scenario.

For naval units First off, the age of sail really starts with the caravel. Its strength should be reduced to 2, but give it +100% vs galleys.

It would be nice if there were some additional naval units, in the intermediary period, and perhaps one or two that are specific to nations (e.g., sea-dog for Brits, carrack for portugal, sloop for Denmark). In any even the main vessel during most of the entire scenario will be the galleon The Galleon is mainly a transport ship, but is can certainly put up a fight, so it should keep its four strength. You could add something like barques or pinnaces if you wanted to give different options as far as small coastal ships that are in serious danger out in the ocean.

Next you have the Frigate. Historically, these were light ships, meant as escorts against pirates, and not at all capable of standing up to real bad-*** man-o-wars. So make them str of 6 and give them 5 moves, not 4. These ships were the counter to pirates of the shipping lanes, so they should get +25% vs light sail ships (which would include privateers, corvettes, and caravels).

Corvettes should be introduced into the game as light ships, meant for scouting, piracy and screening, rather what destroyers are used for today. Not as strong as a frigate, but strong enough to take out transports. Strength of 4 would be good, with +50% vs transport ships, ao that they can take out unescorted galleons relatively easily, but are cut to peices by frigates. This ship should get 5 moves.

The privateer should be brought back from civ3, cheap, weak, but fast (give it 6 moves), and let it enslave the ships they overtake so that you get the enemy's ship (maybe at 10% original strength or something). should be strength of 3, +50% vs transports, so still able to take down a galleon most of the time, but even a corvette should be able to kill it.

Depending on when you have the scenario ending, you might consider toward the very end having man-o-wars and should have a strength of 9, able cut through any smaller ships easily.

I would second the suggestion that techs be made more expensive. In the Prince-level game I'm playing, it's the 1650s and I have stealth bombers -- fun, but not exactly realistic.

My friend...no

1. Technologies aren't cheap if you're a minor peoples, leave them or possibly make them do more things.

3. The map is already full, no more please...

4. It adds to the challenge playing the Dutch

Great map, eight out of ten for style, ten out of ten for great thinking.

1. hmm, i had 1/2 of America, biggest army in the world, many wars in europe and in new world and some wonders, I think i did lots of things.

3. when will be added south america + east arfica u will have lots of strategies how to play. Maybe can be larger on east +1/2 tiles for frederick and genoa better cities.

4. Dutch? ok I will try it as soon as possible on prince and i will see.:)

1. I was playing on marathon, I'm an idiot.

One other options for land units for this particular scenario (and for any scenario involving Native American societies) would be a "brave" unit. This would be essentially the NA version of a warrior. It would only cost what a warrior cost, but have a strength of 3, and come auto-equipped with the Level 1 bonus (+10% strength, and with Woodsman II, giving it 2 movement in forests, and +30% defense in forests. It might also be appropriate for the indigenous persons to be able to build a city-attacking unit, but it would be best if being able to build this unit only happened after the Europeans have started to encroach on the natives (e.g., after a certain quantity of Euro population is in the New World, when certain structures are built in the New World or perhaps after small pox is brought over). This unit would be basically the same as the brave unit, but with strength 4 and +100% (or perhaps more) city attack.

Native Americans should NOT until the 1750s or later be able to build horse units, and even then, the groups east of the Appalachians made almost no use of the animals at all. Horses were not present in North America prior to arrival of the first Spanish explorers, and it appears that shipwrecks and strays from missions in the Gulf Coast are what accounted for the reintroduction of the horse. It took several generations for these strays to grow into vibrant populations, and for the local populations in the Great Plains to adapt to the opportunities afforded by these animals. However by the late 1750s (IIRC), groups like the Crow had undergone tremendous transformation from their traditional sedentary horticultural lifestyle into nomadic hunter-gatherers whose entire lifestyle was built around hunting large game from horseback, i.e., the classical horse-riding plains Indian "brave" that is widely recognized in popular culture.

One other issue that would add interest: it should be possible for indigenous peoples to acquire firearms fairly early on, most likely by 1600 or 1650 the New World groups should be fielding a few arquebusiers.

Native Americans should NOT until the 1750s or later be able to build horse units, and even then, the groups east of the Appalachians made almost no use of the animals at all. Horses were not present in North America prior to arrival of the first Spanish explorers, and it appears that shipwrecks and strays from missions in the Gulf Coast are what accounted for the reintroduction of the horse. It took several generations for these strays to grow into vibrant populations, and for the local populations in the Great Plains to adapt to the opportunities afforded by these animals.


Interesting point if we were dealing with a New World that plays out like it did historically. But if you you plan on playing any of the New World Civs then you have to take a very aggressive stance. The capture of horses in battle and the taking of colonies and any of their stock should be considered. If there could be a tech that mirrors this or a timed introduction of stock, that would be acceptable. Since we are in fact producing an Alternate Time line we should not be restricted by history after the first turn is made.

I had not realized that the mod was set to allow NA groups to be played, so that is a good point XplorR. Even so, for the sake of realism, I would still tend toward other options for more powerful NA units than horse-based units in the Eastern tribes. Given that the start of the scenario is so profoundly based on relative historic states in the late 15th century, the ability to pursue radically different "alternate histories" is certainly a meritorious element in the game, but it should be kept within the realm of reason.

If memory serves, the Spanish were the only European tribes to bring large numbers of quarter-horses with them. Herd animals brought by the other European colonial groups would have tended toward cattle, and draft animals. I do not recall exactly why this should be the case, but again, if memory serves, it was because of abundance of quarter horse available in Spain, and a greater reliance on such animals in the Spanish military of the day. Another factor might have been that, with the huge open plains which they discovered in the Gulf Region and then more inland in the Great Plains, the Spanish crown quickly realized that horses would be a very useful means of exploring in their New World claims. Because the Eastern seaboard and much of the southeast coast were densely forested, horses would have been a much less useful tool for the French, English, and Dutch settlers and explorers who landed more northeasterly.

The other issue that most likely was involved in why the horse never really became important to the native American tribes fo the Eastern Woodland region, is probably this same fact, that a horse is less useful (except to a very expert rider) in a hilly if not mountainous and heavily wooded terrain. I'm not even aware of their having been many horse units in the colonial or English military during the Revolutionar War (late 1770s) nor in the French and Indian War (ca. 1760?). Thus, for reasons which I'm inferring were largely pragmatic, the horse never really became a mainstay in the military units of the American Eastern Woodland region, which for the purposes of this scenario, a major part of the New World.

Actually, if I can be permitted to go on still a bit more of a tangent :blush: this issue with horse husbandry has always been one of my pet peeves in the game. The idea that, a tile of plains discovered in 3500 BC to "have horses on it" is STILL the ONLY piece of territory in the entire domain of the sovereign powers in that region to "have horses on it" some 3000 years later is absurd. The idea that you can disrupt a rivals ability to build horses by pillaging that single tile equally as effectively in 3500 BC as you can in 1800 AD is simply preposterous.

It is appropriate that the horse resource only be able to exist or "be developed" on certain types of terrain (e.g., not on mountains, not in jungles or forests, nor in water tiles) but other than that, the horse should be "able to spread" just about everywhere else. True, in its origional feral state, they should only appear on a limited number of tiles, and particularly more often on plains. Building a road to a horse, and then building a pasture might be sufficient for building horsemen. But for subsequent horse units, it should also be necessary to build to equestrian facilities in cities, and these would represent the actual breeders, trainers, and blacksmiths. Without these horses in the city, the city cannot build the more advanced horse-based units (knights, etc.). It should remain possible to pillage a tile and disrupt a rivals supply of horses, but it should ALSO be possible to spread horses, much as I have always felt it should be possible to spread wine, and other domesticates. This should not be an easy thing to do, true, but I think that the strategic possibilities of the game have been rather hemmed in with the current static system by which domesticated plants and animals are represented as strategic resources on the maps.

Consider this: the tomato, potato, corn, orange, tobacco, and many other domesticates, DID NOT EXIST in the Old World prior to Europeans taking specimens and planter-stock back with them. The same is true for a number of organisms which are now widespread in the New World, but did not exist here until Europeans brought them over. Many overseas "colonial" endeavours over the centuries involved the transplantation of plants or animals to new locations because of perceived strategic or economic value from such transfers. For example, HMS Bounty, the vessel which is the subject of "Mutiny on the Bounty" was transporting grape fruit from the south Pacific back either Africa or the southern US to be used as planter-stock to provide cheap food for slaves.

Anyway, sorry to hijack your thread Dale :geek: just trying to provide lots of ideas :)

Sounds Interesting!:goodjob: However, I can't mount it on to Civ4 files in my computer.

New to the forums, but I had to try out your scenario. One thing I noticed was that the city names for the Scotts are all messed up. I don't know if I am the only one having this problem or not.

I see it has been noted many times about the fish.

Might think about making the native americans more powerful. ie. more starting units maybe. Very easy to take over.

Also, up in Canada you have jungle scattered in the forest, is this intentional or not?

All in all, I have enjoyed playing the English so far. Great work!

It should remain possible to pillage a tile and disrupt a rivals supply of horses, but it should ALSO be possible to spread horses, much as I have always felt it should be possible to spread wine, and other domesticates. This should not be an easy thing to do, true, but I think that the strategic possibilities of the game have been rather hemmed in with the current static system by which domesticated plants and animals are represented as strategic resources on the maps.

Consider this: the tomato, potato, corn, orange, tobacco, and many other domesticates, DID NOT EXIST in the Old World prior to Europeans taking specimens and planter-stock back with them.

I agree with this statement and like the idea of domestication by producing buildings in cities. Start the resources out in semi remote locations and make them spread like relgion by building stables or gardens. After they have spread maybe give a chance to randomly appear in theyre repected land type. This may need the creation of more land and soil types. This domestication idea is key in the history of civilizations. Any modders? please help.

icandoanything V exept mod in new terain types and resourse issues

I just played as Dutch only for 70 turns, i had only astronomy and others had +5-6 techs.I was first only in numbers of colonies(I had complet Atlantic coast of NA without florida), but u havent enough money in motherland to supply them on start -> drop down that weak to more weak science. I think that is almost impossible to play as Dutch.

I just played as Dutch only for 70 turns, i had only astronomy and others had +5-6 techs.I was first only in numbers of colonies(I had complet Atlantic coast of NA without florida), but u havent enough money in motherland to supply them on start -> drop down that weak to more weak science. I think that is almost impossible to play as Dutch.

I played with the Dutch and it happened the same.

I had many colonies, but less techs and my motherland couldn't supply me properly.
Maybe adding more cities in the homeland would put things allright.

I played with the Dutch and it happened the same.

I had many colonies, but less techs and my motherland couldn't supply me properly.
Maybe adding more cities in the homeland would put things allright.

The Dutch are supposed to be hard! That's the whole point!

Can you imagine if the game was easy?

Dale

BTW, have you considered allying with France and taking out Savoy and Genoa? That provides a good base to work from.

Being Dutch, i obviously tried dutch civ first. On Noble this was pretty hard and i couldn't keep up in tech or expansion overseas. When i tried to attack hiawatha with my irregulars, the indians had bombards and riflemen, and loads of them! it killed me... :rolleyes:

This time i played warlord, which is do-able especially focusing on tech and sharing with France! become friends with france and you've got it made as Holland, joint attack on the saxons gave me Bremen and resulted i me having horses on the old continent.


I would like to plea for FISH!, i really miss it, especially around holland... here we go again... holland was wealthy as early as the 1500'ds and had a large role in science at that time.

Adding -well-placed- fish on this map will balance the game just that little bit needed.

I played with the Dutch and it happened the same.

I had many colonies, but less techs and my motherland couldn't supply me properly.
Maybe adding more cities in the homeland would put things allright.

Oh and building courthouses and eventually a forbidden palace REALLY helps your strategy playing dutch, you'll need 8 courthouses to build the FP

Yes, I built many courthouses...
I'll make another try, with the FP and trying to ally with France.

Thx for your suggestions Roetghoer

Pretty nice scenario, I'm still playing it. Just wanted to report a bug. Somehow I was able to discover Flight without Theory of Gravity. When I beelined for it it picked Hot Air Baloon instead, omissing other techs.

I'm playing with the Dutch again, and following your suggestions, things are going better.

I have a question though: is it normal that Native American civs gain access to units like Riflemen?
I remember a scenario about this period for Civilization II, where Natives where quite easy to conquer due to their lack of technology, but in my game I've reached their cities and they are full of riflemen, lol...

I did not look at the scenario at all, I was just reading about your experience with Dutch... would it be a bad idea to donate your town(s) in Europe to say France after you built your colonies?

I did not look at the scenario at all, I was just reading about your experience with Dutch... would it be a bad idea to donate your town(s) in Europe to say France after you built your colonies?

I'm way waaayyyy to nationalistic to do that...

And it adds to the difficulty maintaining 1 or 2, relatively weak, cities amongst three major civs france england and spain. Its fun! i'm stil trying to crate a war amongst them to give me an edge on science while they spend all their efforts to destroy eachother. (:ar15: isabella is a btsj :mad: )

I haven't played the scenario, but I read that all American Native towns are size 2?
Do you realize that in 1500, Tenochtitlán was bigger than any European city (Paris, Londen, Rome) at the time?
Some sources even say it was more than six times as populous as London! See several sources with this Google search (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=tenochtitlan+inhabitants+%22any+european+city%22 %22+&btnG=Search)

There is also the matter of great deseases which the europeans brought to the continent. Plague etc were unknown to the natives who suffered MASSIVELY from these illnesses.

Also, the aztecs had been waiting for a "white god-people" for centuries and as soon as they heared of the spanish conquistadors they welcomed them into their capital as gods and were EASILY overcome. a few hundred spanish killed a few thousand aztecs overnight! capturing their leader and making him swear allegiance to the good book.... now isn't that wonderful, fresh christians :D.

So i don't think we have to make the natives stronger. WEAKER would be a better option. Their research is too rapid at the moment. Thats the main thing, size etc of the natives works just fine at the moment.

Couldn't agree more with Roetghoer :)

When my Dutch units arrived to the New Continent, soon the Natives arrived with Riflemen and Cannons, while they should have almost obsolete units.

In the scenario they are at the same level of the European Kingdoms.

So i don't think we have to make the natives stronger. WEAKER would be a better option. Their research is too rapid at the moment. Thats the main thing, size etc of the natives works just fine at the moment.

Well, you might want to weaken them militarily, but make them stronger in terms of population and wealth. Otherwise, what's there to conquer?

Well, you might want to weaken them militarily, but make them stronger in terms of population and wealth. Otherwise, what's there to conquer?

LAND! and with that, influence on the new continent.

When i began a war with hiawatha, the natives had 5 or 6 cities of 10+ people with riflemen and loads!! of bomdards.

I had about 3 cities that size and needed massive armies of canons and irregulars to get the upper hand without assistance of french or others.

I think giving the natives MORE cities at the start of the game would help, because it will cripple their economy and thus stifle their research for the first 60 or 80 turns.

Is this a huge map? Because as much as I'd like to play it I won't even bother if it's huge. Lag.:(

Is this a huge map? Because as much as I'd like to play it I won't even bother if it's huge. Lag.:(

Huge, and I have a lot of lag and a decent PC.

using gforce 6200 265MB with latest drivers, 1256MB RAM and a AMD1800+ CPU i don't have any lag problems but the game CTD's a lot! once every 5 turns orso, so obviously i've put autosave on every turn...

Turnswitch times are about 6-8 sec. respectable, without the mem-save option! (turn it on or off in the config.ini file in the root Dir.) Also, all display settings are on high except for AA which is 0 (doesn't really improve the game anyway, i don't zoom in on combat etc.)

And i refuse to play tiny or standard maps!!, only huge :rockon:

And i refuse to play tiny or standard maps!!, only huge :rockon:

Yeah, I only play on Large/Huge maps, even if I must suffer a bit when there are many areas developed :D

I tried it again with the Dutch but there are just not logic, the Netherlands should become the envy of wealth, innovation, oversea power and have the most modern army in europe(Yes they had it all at the same time), it is (almost) impossible to achieve that in this scenario.

So atleast add 1-2 cities to the Dutch and give them a good strong navy.

Well, at my second attempt, following those suggestions given to me (like allying with French and taking Bremen, and building many courthouses in the colonies) and with more attention, I managed to build some Dutch colonies.

But the Barbarians (who created less problems, this time) and above all, the Natives with pleny of Rifles and Cannons didn't let me expand that much.

What I'd add in the Netherlands is some fish resource.
Building a second city would be great (I prefer the Dutch above all the other kingdoms), but then you should limit Germany.

Dutch were actually the first to implement a large corporation, and use a highly efficient banking system in the early 1600'ds. The sofisticated armies than anjf is talking about were actually for the most part the swiss mercenaries. These swiss mercs were expensive because they were the very best. Holland partly 'bought' its independence.

I'd like this scenario to be as historically acurate as possible, and in my opinion this allready is the best scenario available at the moment (brittania is a good second). Therefor i'd have to agree with rey and would like, apart from the currently lacking fish on the map, some extra fish resource near Amsterdam.

OH, and maybe ad another loaded caraval at the start. AT LEAST as many as portugal!

Face it: the Dutch did not colonize the Americas, or conquer the world.
Why do the Dutch civfanatics always feel the need to stress how incredibly important they are?

In 1500, the Netherlands, then called the Duchy of Holland, was still part of the Holy Roman empire, so be happy that you're given the opportunity to play the Netherlands at all!
If a second city for the Dutch would be considered, I suggest it would be Antwerp. It was a much more influential city and harbor until the Spanish Fury and consequetive Siege of Antwerp in ~1585.

I'm not Dutch, but I like playing this scenario with the Duchy of Holland above all.. I did this even with the Civ II scenario of this Age.

They haven't conquered the world, but they should be playable in this scenario, so giving suggestions is a good idea, IMHO...

Isn't this a MOD pack? Why is it in scenarios? I wouldn't have discovered this if I weren't wandering.

Anyway, I've downloaded now. Will try it. Thanks. :)

Face it: the Dutch did not colonize the Americas, or conquer the world.
Why do the Dutch civfanatics always feel the need to stress how incredibly important they are?

They colonized North America-> land arround today New York(New Amsterdam), but they changed this land for land in South America(arround Guyana).

They were very important, but not in America but in Indonesia,China and JAPAN(No one without did not trade with Japan in this time)

I've tried to start a new game. It didn't work. On the Single player screen, only "Load game" option is available. :)

They colonized North America-> land arround today New York(New Amsterdam), but they changed this land for land in South America(arround Guyana).

They were very important, but not in America but in Indonesia,China and JAPAN(No one without did not trade with Japan in this time)

Both Manhattan and Surinam aren't exactly major possessions in the New World.
Of course I know my own country's history, it's just that I dislike the way some Dutch people here were bragging about it.

Sorry for my english,

Nice work :)) but I think that a new city ( created by europan civ) in new world shoudn't grow so fast,
in 20-30 turns they can have 2,
then 3 and more people,

i think that they need much more food to grow up, or all city in game shoud have a higer level grow up a new population ( and city in europ have +3 or +4);

i play some time ( about 150 years ) and i saw sth that: a London have 10-12 and a new world town have a 6-12

Sorry for my english,

China and JAPAN(No one without did not trade with Japan in this time)

the portuguese got there first, and were trading with both chinese and japonese long before the dutch...

but i want to ask... where are the catholics? are they the pagan religion?

the portuguese got there first, and were trading with both chinese and japonese long before the dutch...

but i want to ask... where are the catholics? are they the pagan religion?

From 1641 untill 1853, the dutch traderoute via Deshima (near nagasaki) was the only contact with Europe. Before 1641 the portugeuse and others were also present but around 1640-41 the shogun kicked all christians out of the country, except for the dutch because they had no other intentions then trade. The dutch actually helped in kicking out the christians

Love the scenario. Great map.

A couple of observations: When I play England the AIs for France and Scotland are very active colonizers.
Dutch are there a bit later.
Portugal takes Morroco and stops (seems about right as the Society of Jesus (or Jesuits) were more interested in converting the Chinese than the New World). They were spending the Portugese treasury controlling Macao and the far east trade routes.
Spain, tho', where is Spain (the whole world wonders?)

Regarding the tech tree. Lots of stuff here. I assume you will tie the advancements to some material results in the coming betas? Most simply seem to lead to another advancement. Rarely do I see a significant consequence to a discovery.


Finally, again, I love the scenario!

Sorry for my english,

Nice work :)) but I think that a new city ( created by europan civ) in new world shoudn't grow so fast,
in 20-30 turns they can have 2,
then 3 and more people,

i think that they need much more food to grow up, or all city in game shoud have a higer level grow up a new population ( and city in europ have +3 or +4);

i play some time ( about 150 years ) and i saw sth that: a London have 10-12 and a new world town have a 6-12

Sorry for my english,

Glad to have your english, as I cannot type in very many laguages at all.

I agree with the city growth issue. Roanoke grew to be larger than London by 1570. Jamestown followed in 1580. Huron was a 12 in 1565. The problem is not so much the availability of food, there has always been plenty of food on this continent. The real problem is the breeding rate. About the same as gerbils I imagine. The New World tended to kill early and often. Besides the unhappy native, bears, raging rivers, high infant mortality and disease, the 18 hour days tended to make sleep much more precious than procreation.

Can the growth rate be tweaked to account for these (and other) factors?

BTW, Scotland?
If Elizabeth is on the throne, Mary is in the tower or in hiding. James is a toddler and the Church in Scotland is busy tearing the country apart.

Nova Scotia was not a effort of the Scottish government. It was a good way to get away from the post Bonny Prince Charlie woe's of the Jacobites.

Scotland settled it's poor in Ireland.
Later in The USA and Canada.

I am of Scottish decent so I am not ragging on some one else's homeland.

The shogun did not kick the Christians out of Japan. He executed them. A few Portugese traders spying for the Jesuits in Macao brought the news.

Just wondering how to properly install it this mod. I clicked on the link to download the file. Then winzip comes up and was wondering what i do to play this mod. What do i do when it comes up there are two files public maps and mods as a folder. What do i do from there could you help me out if i click on public maps it comes up as age of discovery, if i click on mods it comes of with a folder.

Just wondering how to properly install it this mod. I clicked on the link to download the file. Then winzip comes up and was wondering what i do to play this mod. What do i do when it comes up there are two files public maps and mods as a folder. What do i do from there could you help me out if i click on public maps it comes up as age of discovery, if i click on mods it comes of with a folder.

Mike, put the mouse down and step away from the computer.

Ok, download the file to a save file on your desktop. open up> My Computer.
Browse to (probably) C:

Open Program Files/Firaxis Games/Civilization4/Mods/
Grab the folder from your save file and stick it in /....../Mods/

Load the game.

Wait

Chose "Advanced"

Chose to play a Scenario.

Chose "Age of Discovery"

Answer yes to the next really stupid question.

Go make a sandwich.

Eat the Sandwich.

Ok, the game should have loaded by now and you can have some fun.

BTW, for a game that 2K knew would be modded to H**L and back, why a scenario can't be directly loaded is a mystery to me.

Choose has two os? Who knew?

Anyone else notice how easy it is to destroy the Aztecs when you have about 30 Stealth Bombers?

Maybe the tech tree should stop after, say.... Cavalry?

Anyone else notice how easy it is to destroy the Aztecs when you have about 30 Stealth Bombers?

Maybe the tech tree should stop after, say.... Cavalry?


tech should be 'more expensive'

tech should be 'more expensive'

in particular for Native civs... As I said in a previous post, it's odd to see Native armies made of Cannons and Riflemen.

Why is there no catholicism already spread in the catholic kingdoms of the time or stranger yet, at all?

Mike, put the mouse down and step away from the computer.

Ok, download the file to a save file on your desktop. open up> My Computer.
Browse to (probably) C:

Open Program Files/Firaxis Games/Civilization4/Mods/
Grab the folder from your save file and stick it in /....../Mods/

:lol:

While it´s funny, it´s also wrong...

Since there are the folders MODS and PUBLIC MAPS, you just need to go to /Civilization4 and dump both folders in there.

;)

*goes making a sandwich

Nice scenario. I've been playing it for a lil bit and I'll see how far I'll come over the next days. I just have a few lil things that bug me with this mod, but I think they have alreayd been stated before.
First with your map there are two things. America is much too North compared to your Europe. Secondly why jungles in North America and all the way to Carolinas? Is that to symbolize the Cyprus swamps and such? There really is a limited amount of Jungle in the americas outside of South & Middle America. Allot of Caribbean islands even don't have jungles because of the lack of enough rain.
Lastly why leave out the Catholic religion? It was a bit funny to notice that all the players eventually turned out to be Lutheran or Islamic.
For the rest I liked what i've seen so far.

I have a question,

Is there anyway to not be on marathon in the settings? I noted it was grayed out when I was starting. I know it problem serves some balance purpose but I like my games a bit quicker. Anyway thanks.

I have not played it yet, but it looks fun. I wish that Firaxis supported scenarios more often, Civ II was great, Civ III was ok eventually, but I really wish they had packaged some well balanced scenarios, the american revolution one was ok but really no use playing against a computer player.

I guess another question I had was, how well have scenarios worked in online play so far??? I played a couple times online, but not familiar with how a scenario would work.

I havent been on this thread for some time now, but i have to protest against some things, said about my critcis with the dutch.

1) The army I ment wasn't swiss merc. the army that fought for independence in the beginning was very weak, i was talking about the armies of stadshouders/prins Maurits that only were the last years and since he invented the civ cavalry unit I think you could say that the dutch had the most advanced army in that time.

2) I know the histoy of the Holy Roman Empire, but that wasn't that far from its end in 1500, I know that for the start the Dutch aren't logic, but they did play an important part in europe colonial history so it just can't be left out of this(Based on historical facts and not because I am a Dutch nationalist)

3) They didn't realy colonised America more then the Antillen, Suriname and Nieuw Amstersdam but they did try and they had a special company for it
De West Indische Compangie, or The West Indian Company, which had quite nice profits. And the Dutch fought many wars during this time against other European nations. So they perhapse didn't coloniced that much but they did great damage to the fleets of others. They have beaten the english fleet, the spanish one, and rubed the silverfleet which hurt spain very serious in there wallet. So I realy don't think we should say we are lucky that we even have the Dutch.
Al my arguments were based in The Republic so I still think that should be the name even though the beginning isnt correct then but overal its better.

About Antwerpen as second city I have multiple thoughts, first it was the largest city after Amsterdam, second I want the Republic as nation, and during that time Antwerpen was still spanish and its harbor block via the ooster schelde. So perhaps Middelburg, those 2 should fit in +/- the same square or next to eachother. So the placing would be the same but historical better fitting for the Republic. But a city in the north like Leeuwarden, Hoorn or Enkhuizen should be oke to I thing, or ofcourse Den Haag but perhapse a bit to close to Amsterdam, same counts for Hoorn and Enkhuizen

And last: Why I deffend the Netherlands?
While I think the Dutch are surely for this time area very important but aren't being token seriously enough! And I am rather nationalist so I think the Dutch did great things and that that should be said.

Well I believe that was al comment I had, if someone still has some serious troubles with it just say it, I will think about them

looks interesting and (politics aside) I'll check it out and let you know what I think.
Thanks for the hard work.

Just to add some information to the idea of defending the Dutch. They had more islands in the caribbean then they eventually ended up with!
Here is a list of all the Dutch colonial assets over the years:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_colony
You might not trust wikipedia, but this list seems to be fairly accurate. Also be known that the now forgotten island of St. Eustatius was known as the Golden Rock at one time, being one of the richest colonies in the New World. And for you Americans, it was here that your country was first recognized as a country. This of course led to severe punishment by the British.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Eustatius

Just to add some information to the idea of defending the Dutch. They had more islands in the caribbean then they eventually ended up with!
Here is a list of all the Dutch colonial assets over the years:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_colony
You might not trust wikipedia, but this list seems to be fairly accurate. Also be known that the now forgotten island of St. Eustatius was known as the Golden Rock at one time, being one of the richest colonies in the New World. And for you Americans, it was here that your country was first recognized as a country. This of course led to severe punishment by the British.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Eustatius

Well said couldn't agree more

Just to add some information to the idea of defending the Dutch. They had more islands in the caribbean then they eventually ended up with!
Here is a list of all the Dutch colonial assets over the years:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_colony
You might not trust wikipedia, but this list seems to be fairly accurate. Also be known that the now forgotten island of St. Eustatius was known as the Golden Rock at one time, being one of the richest colonies in the New World. And for you Americans, it was here that your country was first recognized as a country. This of course led to severe punishment by the British.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Eustatius
And to think that all this time we Americans have been taught that Morocco was the first country to recognise us as a State.

And to think that all this time we Americans have been taught that Morocco was the first country to recognise us as a State.
Ahh, defacto recognisation. Ok, my bad

I liked your scenerio but few suggestions:
1. Please add texts to techs...
2. You must make map bigger to make the atlantic ocean better, europe is very close to america especially to carribbean
3.Maybe you can make Italian Peninsula, Greece and Anatolia because there are many port cities there and it is unfair for Ottomans and Italians to have less production base for ships etc..
4. Some bugs with city names for Scots

I had much fun playing as the portugese. The one critique I have, which was mentioned above, is that I hit the industrial age at around the year1600. If I were you I would cap the technologies so that entering the industrial age is not possible - if the scenario is to truly take place in the age of discovery, then there should not be trains and steampower, etc... Also, slowing down the research a little would not hurt.

Can someone tell me how on earth to do this? This'll be my first time ever doing something like this, and I get confused as soon as I click that download link. So I'll need an easy to understand, step by step explanation of what to do if anyone can provide it. Make it very simplistic, since I honestly know nothing.

you;re gonna want to put the mods (assets and such) into a folder inside your Civ 4 (programfiles/firaxis/civilization 4 by default)
Theres a folder called "MODS"
put "AGE OF DISCOVERY" in there
then, put the file with the ending "civ4worldbuildersave" into the Firaxis/Civilization4/Publicmaps folder.
Then start it up and go to Play Scenario. Age of Discovery should be an option, and it should automatically load the mod when you click to it.
hope this helps

Oh by the way:

CONGRATS to who made this. My hats off to you.
This is the best scenario/mod made yet for civ 4.
I especially enjoy playing as the Native Americans

The scenario is very fun; I think it's great. My thoughts below are not criticisms of the scenario. I simply want to get a dialogue going on what other people are experiencing in the scenario.

I had fun playing as native Americans, but I could never establish real diplomacy with the Europeans even if I converted to their religions. Is the "furious" relations hardcoded? If so, maybe there should be a way to change that. Thoughts?

It seems that it is difficult to win with some of the major powers, e.g. Holland since they only have one city and that one city isn't all that great. Anyone have any thoughts on this? Some folks say that Holland is supposed to be hard, but maybe they could have some bonuses on their one city just to keep them somewhat close to France and England.

Surely the best scenario available for now.

Keep up good work, Dale! :thumbsup:

This works fine with the new patch, yes?

Could someone post more screenshots please. Maybe of the world starting to be colonized.

First of all this is a great scenario, I only have some small Ideas what one might change:

Is it possible to use the graphics of the scout Unit for the indian Warriors? (I think this would make sense to evryone) Or evan make a unique Indian Unit using the Scout Graphics

Also I dont think its logical that you cannot enter Indian territory. The Indians did not understand the concept of owning Land. Is it possible to build in a kind of one way Open Borders?

I also agree with to major factors that have already been said:

a) The Dutch are to weak
b) Indians were not naturally Furious towards the Europeans

PS: I apologize for my abismal spelling I am not a native English speaker...

Just some small notes on my game as the French...

1. Bordeaux isn't a coastal city(i.e, can't build ships/lighthouse), but it has a harbor, and was a 'hugely' important port city for France (probably the largest one during this timeframe...) So I'd actually make the city a real coastal city like I believe you intended.

2. There is no entry to the St. Lawerence from the Atlantic. Most of New France (not Louisiana) was based off the St. Lawerence, so I'd probably open up the top few tiles to make it open to the ocean, it would add a lot to the game I believe. (as a sidenote, there's no way to get to the Hudson Bay either for the english, but that'd be a harder problem to solve.)

3. Canada has almost no resources whatsoever, not saying they have tons anyway, but still, it would be nice to see a couple of furs and maybe some fish in the Great Lakes/St Lawerence, just to add value to the area.

4. I think the area of present day Haiti should get some sugar, at one time it was the single largest sugar producing colony in the entire world! Having one or two in there would add historical accuracy I believe.

5. Couldn't there be some resources that the Germans/Italians have that you could trade with them?? I mean, Genoa was suppose to be the primary merchant power of the medditerranian. Just a couple of wineries or silk plantations would do fine. Then you could trade excess sugar or whatever for wine or silk. (Not to mention that the Genoians and Germans are hurting for health/happiness in the game anyway...)

As for the Dutch:

Let me just say that Antwerp had MUCH MUCH MUCH more importance then some small little fort town like Calais ever did. To include Calais on the map but leave Antwerp out (leaving the Dutch with one city...) is completely ridiculous. The only reason Calais has any importance is it was England's last possession on the mainland, other then that it had almost no role whatsoever (France took over the area about 30 or so years after the starting year of the game in fact...)

great scenario. only weird thing was playing as britain and getting islam for religion.

Gave a go to an old version. Will give a go to the newest and will tell you my opinion.

Really good. Just a possible tip. It costs a fortune to hold colonies in the New World. Netherlands can't support any, really. So I gave us all communism. Maybe you could do that too and name it something like "Colonialism". Just a thought.

BTW-It's really fun. As the Dutch I've colonized the areas North and West of Powatan. Soon I'll declare war on him. I'm a neutral, non-religious nation in Europe and they mostly like me. I give into everyone's demands. Yes, even the Indians. But I'll pay them back :) My home city in Europe is now a second class place; just for building settlers. Oddly enough, the Spanish are conquering the French instead of the Aztecs :)

EDIT: I saw the world map when I retired. The Portugese had about 10 colonies, the Spanish had about 5, the French and germans about 3. I have about 7. Amazing how the AI actually is colonizing the New World. Good Job!

Really good, some small bugs but in general very well done.

I have starting bug Leader_Chines_Leader, etc., etc., hopefully everybody get same bug.

Time - Tech - period balance needs some fine tune. I could research until satellites, and at the end my pace was extremely fast, as I didn't nothing else to do. I didn't conquered rest of civs just to see what happens.

Map is not very realistic, but enough for the purpose. I personally would prefer smaller map, more water and less land.

Congratulations:goodjob:

No matter how many times I tried to bribe the Natives they would still hate me even thogh on the leaderhead screen it would say give help to following Nation why is that???

First I´d like to say that I think this scenario was the best Civ3 could offer and now its here in Civ4.
But are you going to improve it? much more needs to be done here to make it a really good one, have you abandoned it or what are your intentions?
I hope someone else is doing a scenario or mod of Age of discovery, we could improve the tech tree and add more naval units and so on to make the feeling better for this one!

This mod will continue one day, I'm just working on a couple of other projects first (see sig). :)

Hi. nice mod. brilliant work. new versions on mind?

I have successfully downloaded and placed the mod in the right spot. When I try to play the mod it always says I am defeated before I even make a move. I got to choose my civ and then the game loads and it just says I am defeated. Does anyone know why this is happening?

your link is unaviliable

your link is unaviliable
QFT. I'd love to try this.

As said before the link seems to be broken or something.

Well must be on hold for long time now??? Not to bring it back or anything but heres and article for YA!! It was in PC Gamer magazine. Jul issue.

It sure would be nice to see this gem completed!! :)

Yeah I saw that article! Kael pointed me to it. Pity I couldn't find a newsagent with that particular issue. Ah well. :)

And as for other comments, yes I know the link is down, and yes this mod will be finished......... one day. :)

Dale

now that this has been bumped, ill mention that i did find a working link somewhere, i dont know where(to what version, im unsure). i was on some random site which i got to from and saw some civ4 mod downloads and this was one of them. i DLed but i actually cant find where it went so ive yet to play it =P if you really want to find it, it is still out there somewhere. im going to look at my comp again because id love to try this out.

also, im making a mod similar to this which is pretty close to being done. it spans 1600-1750(ish) and can be played on randomly generated maps. theres no europe to deal with, just your colonies. it can also be played as a piracy mod(with a pirate civ based out of port royal with no capability of making settlers) because shipping and $ amount will be more of a factor. this may tide some over until dales scenario comes out.

I found a copy of the download file, but you need to be a FilePlanet member. *shrug*

http://planetcivilization.gamespy.com/View.php?view=Mods.Detail&id=51

This is only vanilla civ compatible too remember.

Dale

Well, I've been doing a little work on the scenario. You know the type of stuff, upgrading to 1.61, filling in the text blanks, more balance that sort of thing.

And yes, North America now has fish, and Catholics are back in. ;)

This minimap is from after 50 years (Noble level as it's most neutral). I'm playing Saxony as a hands-off type of approach. I haven't tried to settle in the New World.

But looking at the minimap colonisation is well in progress. Even Genoa and Scotland have settlements in the New World.

The release version should be available in a few weeks. :)

Dale

I was wondering if you'd ever think of introducing the idea of "random events" that effect new colony's, like meeting hostile locals, or diseases, I think that would be a key problem with new colony's and would add a twist in the need for sending "goods" (another idea) and improvements to keep the colony going, like you could send units that can digested by cities to improve problems caused by the random events?

when I click the DL link in the OP it says it is forbidden :(
Any clue on why?

Edit: OK, I see.

have someone a scenario for a less powerfull laptop? I´ll love to `play in a Earth map but not this huge.

AoD Announcement!

This scenario has been released. :)

No further work will occur on this scenario (unless something major is broken).

Please see the first post of this thread for details and download location.

Dale

i see white flags... no idea why or what to do...

the only white flags are the created ones; tried to change the civartdefines_civ from <bWhiteFlag>0</bWhiteFlag> to 1, but doesn't work...

So I guess there isn't a plan to fix the Technology messages or lack of? Not planning on letting someone finishing it Dale or you pleased this is a good enough version to move on from?

It's "good enough". To be honest, I don't have time to fill in a complete tech tree. At least it's not giving TXT_TECH_ART_STRATEGY any more. ;)

If someone wants to do it, be my guest. :)

Hehehe, fair enough, I can understand it is a lot of random effort to do those features. Might give it a go sometime with your permission?

Actually, it does say TXT_TECH_ART_STRATEGY (or things like that) on my computer...

Well, I have the same complaints about difficulty of life as the Dutch and the frustration of Iroquois with a better military than me. But, that aside, I am loving this scenario and I am really glad that it was made - I loved the "Age of Discovery" Scenario that came in the Civ II Multi Player gold edition - I think I completed it on 3 different world powers, and it was a big one, including the whole world. Kudos for making this, Dale, it's great! I wish I checked these boards more often and had found it sooner!

Edit: Accidentally double posted.

I think I found a problem. When I place my cursor over a resource the name of the resource is correct but the picture isn't. All the resource pictures are swaped. I think it shows iron as horses, ect...

Dale, also, the Native Americans are way too powerful! They ended up in second behind Spain. If anything all the American civs should be toned down. They should be easily conquered.

Would people be interested if I added in a new feature:

Trade Routes & Pirates!

- Once a luxury resource is connected from the New World to Europe, every so often a merchant ship is created in a coastal New World city which automatically travels to Europe.
- Once a merchant ship reaches Europe it disappears.
- Nations can build a "Pirate" unit which has a mission called "Raid".
- The "Raid" mission is available if the pirate ship is adjacent to a merchant ship.
- The "Raid" mission will capture the merchant ship which gives the owner of the pirate some gold and takes it off the owner of the merchant.
- A popup will inform of a raid occuring.
- There is a small chance of the raid failing and the owner of the pirate being found out. This will cause a negative diplomatic change.
- If a military naval unit encounters a pirate then it is captured.

Dale

Would people be interested if I added in a new feature:

Trade Routes & Pirates!

- Once a luxury resource is connected from the New World to Europe, every so often a merchant ship is created in a coastal New World city which automatically travels to Europe.
- Once a merchant ship reaches Europe it disappears.
- Nations can build a "Pirate" unit which has a mission called "Raid".
- The "Raid" mission is available if the pirate ship is adjacent to a merchant ship.
- The "Raid" mission will capture the merchant ship which gives the owner of the pirate some gold and takes it off the owner of the merchant.
- A popup will inform of a raid occuring.
- There is a small chance of the raid failing and the owner of the pirate being found out. This will cause a negative diplomatic change.
- If a military naval unit encounters a pirate then it is captured.

Dale

I think this feature would be nice.
Hope for a new Version...

I was actually going to suggest some twisting of the great merchant into a treasure fleet system but this sounds just as good. :D

But yes I would definatley be interested if you added this.

I think the senario would be beter if the English, French, and Spanish had degraded relations with one another. That is historicly acurate.

Actually, the English and Spanish were pretty tight at the onset of this alliance. France and Scotland were too. But both sides were pretty pissed with each other.

Historically, England + Spain vs France + Scotland.

But I'm not going for historical accuracy. I'm going for fun. And England and Spain teamed together completely throw out the balance of power.

Dale

any thoughts on making this mod for Warlords?

This is really great! I would really enjoy it if you made it for warlords.
Thanks anyway:)

Congrats on your win! I guess I'll give it a try even though it's not for Warlords :mischief:

Age of Discovery 1.12 (EGE Edition) will be released shortly. I'm just waiting on confirmation of the file being hosted before officially releasing it. :)

Changes from last version:
- Texts complete (finally ;) )
- Bug fixes (especially the religion crash)
- Pirates & Traders
- Intro movie

Stay tuned! :)

Dale

Nice work on the scenario and congrats on the recognition.

I just starting playing but here are some initial impressions.

There should be some more bonus resources in europe. If memory serves, europe had pigs, sheep, cattle, wine, wheat, spices, gems, gold, silver, marble and stone. Some starting workers and more military seems a little more realistic. Some of the cottages should be hamlets and villages. There should also be some medieval castles.

Hi Murky. :)

I neglected bonus resources to force the player to expand into the New World to get them.

Historically, Europe have a very poor infrastructure at the time of the beginning of the scenario, especially in western Europe. The 100 years war, the English civil wars, the Reconquista and the usual bikering in the HRE meant a lot of the infrastructure had been destroyed, and never rebuilt.

By the end of the 15th century, castles were being neglected. The invention of gunpowder had rendered walls useless. The French proved that against the English at the end of that little war.

Dale

AoD v1.12 EGE Edition has been released publically!

Play the award winning mod now! See the first post of this thread for download links. :)

Watch the video shown during the EGE Mod Comp award ceremony which highlights the best of AoD!

Please note: v1.12 is NOT Mac compatible. Mac players still need to use v1.0.

Dale

Congrats on the award, Dale! :goodjob:

And thanks for this Scenario!

Looks good. :goodjob:

Congrats again on the award.

This mod is amazing... really, really great...

However, as always, I've found something to complain about! :-P

After about 15ish turns (estimated) the trader ships (that I do not in the least understand) start showing up in Europe. One such ship reaches my capital (I've tried it as the english and the portuguese... same story) and the game does not freeze but it prevents me from playing any further. I'm perfectly capable of moving all my units, and changing city production and so on... it's just like a normal turn, in fact it is, but there's no way to go to the next one.

Is there something I need to do with/to the trader ship to let the computer know I've finished my turn or something?

I find this all very disappointing because I was really looking forward to playing this one... it looks fantastic

Yeah, I found that too the other day. I found if I press ESC on the keyboard it finishes the turn.

Dale

Yeah, I found that too the other day. I found if I press ESC on the keyboard it finishes the turn.

Dale

That's very curious... but thank you very much for the response and the excellent scenario!

hmph... I've tried escape, I've tried every button I can think of... aside from entering world builder and removing every trader when they get to my capital, I can't find a solution! Can this be patched over? It's unfortunate for such a great scenario to be made unplayable by something silly like this... :-/

Have you tried forcing the game to end turn [shift-enter]?

doompigeon:

You don't happen to have any python scripts in "custom assets" do you? That could be affecting the script working correctly.

I have a problem with this mod. When I choose load mod the game shuts down but do not restart. Any ideas how to fix this?

not sure if it's somewhere in the eleven pages of posts but..can anyone give a breif overview of the advantages/disadvantages of following a protestant path.

Congrats on the recognition, it is well deserved! :goodjob:

Hi Murky. :)

I neglected bonus resources to force the player to expand into the New World to get them.

Historically, Europe have a very poor infrastructure at the time of the beginning of the scenario, especially in western Europe. The 100 years war, the English civil wars, the Reconquista and the usual bikering in the HRE meant a lot of the infrastructure had been destroyed, and never rebuilt.

By the end of the 15th century, castles were being neglected. The invention of gunpowder had rendered walls useless. The French proved that against the English at the end of that little war.

Dale

All this may very well be true, but e.g. France without wine????? And 'very poor infrastructure' is not the same as no infrastructure as it is in AoD 1.12. Some things, like stone or marble remain no matter how much civil upset there has been. Also, is there any reason why civs begin with totally empty treasuries? All this makes for very slow and tedious start to the scenario, which otherwise is excellent.

One more thing. Ship speeds are way too slow. It takes a caravel 10-15 turns to go from France to North America. That's 5 to 7 YEARS in game time, when the actual sailing times were a matter of two to four months. Ship speeds probably should be doubled across the board.

jimmygeo

doompigeon:

You don't happen to have any python scripts in "custom assets" do you? That could be affecting the script working correctly.

I don't think so... if I did how would I check/undo them?

I haven't tried force ending yet... thank you whoever that was that said that... so hopefully that'll work... once again... AWESOME scenario

***Edit***

Force End Turn works... and I'm back to thinking this is the most brilliant scenario ever... thanks, Dale... and thanks Davbenbak

The Archive of First version has 1MB, and v.1.12 - 33.5MB. I think, I'll wonder by updates of one of the best mod for Civ3 (not yet for Civ4).
P.S. Execuse me fo my English :crazyeye:

Have you tried forcing the game to end turn [shift-enter]?

There's definitely something amiss with the end of the turns. Although I'm not stuck at the end of any turn, the button stays green most of the time while I can see units that still have moves to be completed and are not getting selected. I have to move the pointer near these active units for the software to "recognize" them as "active" and actually select them. I have to hunt all over the map to find the last several remaining active units that haven't gotten their moves. This includes both units with manual moves, and units with automated moves. Some do get selected, some don't. Not sure why, other than possibly a memory issue. The problem starts half-way through the game and gets worse from there.

No problem per se with the traders and the pirate ships. They work fine, except that my traders get generated from port cities on the Great Lakes... they never go anywhere as a result. That doesn't seem right.

Great scenario though. I had a lot of fun playing this one despite these little glitches.

This is a very well done scenario, but I am having to wait about ten minutes for other civs, meaning I will have to give up, and its only 1580. It's a shame. I have a state of the art gaming computer with dual Nvidia 7800GTXs and 2 gigs of memory. I put graphic quality on low, but no help.So what is going on? Does anybody else have this problem? Or have an explanation or suggestion?

Bu the way, I have also noticed the "green button" problem, but not always. Strange.

I noticed some small bugs, errors coming up at the beginning of turns, but this is a fantastic scenario. I echo the hope that you might revamp it in Warlords.

The error that comes up after a number of turns:

CvEventInterface line 25, in OnEvent
CvEventManager line 164, in handleEvent
CvAoDEventManager line 55, in onBeginTurn
CvAoDEventManager line 210, in turnChecker

Attribute Error CyCity object has no attribute 'isValid'

Seems to me there are bugs with the pirates system. The reason I see why some turns are not ending is because the trader ship does not complete its full movement if it reaches land, and there is no control over the trader ship hence the green button effect. If there is no trader ship, there is no effect.

Having a major lockup with ver 1.12 that have not had in any other scenraios or versions.

A unit, a caravel, is "non-selectable". It ID's correctly when the cursor is over it, so I KNOW, it is one of mine. I was able to load infantry on it but still cannot make it the active unit. No ther units seem to have thisproblem. Setting at "Turn end" with, I suspect this unit as the default unit to move (but no white circle). Bottom displays show no current unit selected and no movement options and no end of turn option.

Have saved game.

wow mate, I tried this mod the other day, and it was fun!! Hadn't had so much fun in ages. fantastic mod good job, thanks for the mod!

hi

it´s a great mod (one of the best i have ever played).
I have uploaded it to Rapidshare for faster download

http://rapidshare.com/files/10046669/AoD1.12.zip

Great scenario!!! Although I have that same problem at the end of 15th or so turn when the turn just won't end. I will try shift enter later.

Just wanted to add, that Dale, if you do find some more time to work on this mode, the Dutch should be strengthened.

They should get an extra caravel with a settler and pikeman, more army in the capital, and some basic resources as iron and horses. Maybe even an additional city in Europe, The Hague, or Utrecht more inland... With what they have now, they could never make it to their Golden Age in the 17th Century... You could also give them the VOC wonder, that would generate a merchant or a ship every now and then, or just gold. Also the flag is more like the French one. In any case, Holland is too weak and that is not representative of the history...

Congrats on the prize, it is a great scenario!

The bug with the turn not ending I believe I had figured out a couple of weeks ago, if anyone else can confirm. The trader caravel that leaves after you settle the new world moves of its own control to reach the old world, but the system for ending the turn requires you to designate an action for that trader caravel.

The trader caravel will move to the fullest extent it can until it reaches land, when it just stops. While it is moving as far as it can, you can end turns safely with the usual red button appearing to tell you that there is no more user input required. When the ship stops before completing its full range of movement by arriving at land, there is a unit that the civ engine thinks requires user input and the turn will not end, although there is nothing you can do about it. You should see that when you can not make a move, you have a trader ship that has reached land and still has movement left. After that ship is gone, you are running smoothly.

Shift-enter got me unstuck when the problem did arise.

Seems to me there are bugs with the pirates system. The reason I see why some turns are not ending is because the trader ship does not complete its full movement if it reaches land, and there is no control over the trader ship hence the green button effect. If there is no trader ship, there is no effect.

The bug with the turn not ending I believe I had figured out a couple of weeks ago, if anyone else can confirm. The trader caravel that leaves after you settle the new world moves of its own control to reach the old world, but the system for ending the turn requires you to designate an action for that trader caravel.

The trader caravel will move to the fullest extent it can until it reaches land, when it just stops. While it is moving as far as it can, you can end turns safely with the usual red button appearing to tell you that there is no more user input required. When the ship stops before completing its full range of movement by arriving at land, there is a unit that the civ engine thinks requires user input and the turn will not end, although there is nothing you can do about it. You should see that when you can not make a move, you have a trader ship that has reached land and still has movement left. After that ship is gone, you are running smoothly.

Shift-enter got me unstuck when the problem did arise.

This all agrees with my experience. One thing to watch is that it sometimes happens when you still have units to move, so it is worth checking before you press shift-enter.

Great senario btw.

Actually my problem with the turn not ending seems to be a bit more serious. It is in fact not one of my units that is causing the freeze, I had ended the turn and am instructed to "wait for other civilizations". At this stage, it is the other civilizations that need to do something, and they do not. There is nothing I can do about it, no force move, no shift enter, nothing... Unless someone has a different idea?

Honestly, I waited for half-an-hour for the AI to play, nothing. I can reload an earlier game, but than I need to play turns again and will get the problem later on. Shame, I was doing quite well as the Dutch, I had colonized most of the southern US...

Could it be one of other civ's caravel traders that is blocking? Thanks for your ideas guys! Cheers!

Shouldn't you be updateing to Warlords 2.08.

The Trade ship just aren´t working proberly. They slow down and make things difficult. Good idea not working proberly.

I've got the same problem with neverending wait for other civilizations. I go back to a previous save but it still happens on the same exact turn, though the turn it happens on is different for each new game. It's not the green button problem, that's taken care of by clicking on it. No, the next turn happens, all my cities do their thing and THEN it tells me to wait. And what exactly is it with the trade ships giving me 1 to zero gold? Seems like a waste to me.

I too have the above mentioned problem and it sadly makes what seemed a very good mod unplayable.

From what I have witnessed it really seems to have to do with the trading vessels. In-between-turn time just goes on forever during an enemy turn; I can access menus and everything, even exit the game.

Since I liked what I saw of this mod a lot prior to the bug (thanks again to the creator to an otherwise interesting addition to the game), I am understandably disappointed that no announcement of this being looked into has been made. I have no clue if this is hard to do, but I'd be gratefull if someone could explain to be how I take the trading vessels out of the game (though that probably won't help me with my current save game).

I too have the above mentioned problem and it sadly makes what seemed a very good mod unplayable.

From what I have witnessed it really seems to have to do with the trading vessels. In-between-turn time just goes on forever during an enemy turn; I can access menus and everything, even exit the game.

Since I liked what I saw of this mod a lot prior to the bug (thanks again to the creator to an otherwise interesting addition to the game), I am understandably disappointed that no announcement of this being looked into has been made. I have no clue if this is hard to do, but I'd be gratefull if someone could explain to be how I take the trading vessels out of the game (though that probably won't help me with my current save game).

There will be a new version of the mod. Just not for a few months as I am currently tied up with something else. :)

Have experienced the same thing, the waiting for civilizations bug. Uploaded the save in case anyone wants to see what went wrong. Awesome mod otherwise.

hi im new to downloading scenarios, but i followed your instructions and downloaded the file to \Sid Meiers Civilization 4\Mods\ and when i go to play the game i click advanced and load the mod, and after it loads i go to play scenario and its not there neither at custom scenario can you tell me whats wrong?

hi im new to downloading scenarios, but i followed your instructions and downloaded the file to \Sid Meiers Civilization 4\Mods\ and when i go to play the game i click advanced and load the mod, and after it loads i go to play scenario and its not there neither at custom scenario can you tell me whats wrong?

Try this -- go into the Mod's Public Maps folder and click the WB file. This should automatically load both the mod and its scenario (the map). If it fails, this means your downloaded folders are either mislabeled, not in the right place, or you have an older version of the game (my guess).

i tried that by clicking the wb file but when i do that i get a invalid mod sign when the game is loading. i checked to see if i have the latest patch and i do 1.61 but when i check my build it says my save build is 1.03 does that make a difference?

Have experienced the same thing, the waiting for civilizations bug. Uploaded the save in case anyone wants to see what went wrong. Awesome mod otherwise.

It is quite easy to check whether trade vessels ae the reason of this bug...just open worldbuilder and search for these pesky tradesmen next to AI's cities. Since I had not encountered this bug so far, I will not do it myself (besides, I am just too lazy).

Can som1 update it to Warlords ??

I did what Lone Wolf suggested, and deleted a few trade vessels, and it worked. Don't know which one it was, though.

Am I the only person who does not encounter this bug? I've been playing as Spain, conquered Atzecs and Incas, recovered my poor economy by building Summer Palace in the Yucatan (Really, why Chichen Itza has a big growth potential, while Tenochtitlan (Mexico) is struck at size 2 forever?), which took a long time (I was running a deficit at 0% science - the only thing that helped me to aviod strike was selling techs to Hiawatha) and did not meet this never ending "Wanting for other civilizations" message. I had to press shift+enter many times, however...

And IMO bombard is overpowered a bit - and why AI uses them for defending cities, not attacking them? I just changed the strength of bombard to 7 and give it AI_ATTACK_CITY, not AI_CITY_DEFENCE tag.

It is a good MOD, through. :thanx:

I think I broke the tech tree. Playing as France on Noble (France has the best European lands, lots of growth potential) I got Infantry in the late 1580's. I think you want to make ToG a prequisite for Cotton Gin or something. You can beeline from Corporation-> Assembly line. Admittedly, on France I would have had it anyway around 1650 on noble. But I have both production plants and coal plant (+175% with forge!). Too much candy way too early. I have New World cities that can make 1 infantry a turn. This is with the save above.

Hi Dale! Will you upgrade this Great scenario to BTS, and develop it further now when your WW2 scenario is finished? :D

I guess some of the BtS stuff could be used here, like events and privateers for instance.....

Yes definitely! And I want to use vassals, trade routes and espionage too.

A better AI is always handy too. ;)

Ever thought about a Colonization Mod, Dale?

Age Of Discovery Scenario for Civ4:

The date is 1492 and Spanish explorer Christopher Columbus...

Not that this is of a big importance... but Cristoforo Colombo was almost surely born in Genoa from italian parents so he was italian.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Columbus

Yes definitely! And I want to use vassals, trade routes and espionage too.

A better AI is always handy too. Awesome I can't wait.

Not that this is of a big importance... but Cristoforo Colombo was almost surely born in Genoa from italian parents so he was italian.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Columbus

Yeah we had a whole page discussion on that pages back. But the end result was, he flew the Spanish flag. :)

He could've quite easily been called "Genoan", Portugese" or "Spanish". :)

Hi guys,

I've got a problem with the scenario, the game tends to freeze from time to time during the 'turning'. It completely takes over any available CPU time. I've had it running like this for about an hour :mad: . Also, the turn sometime doesn't end properly, that is the 'end-turn' button doesn't blink red even though there are no remaining tasks like unmoved units or empty production-lists. I discovered that this happens especially when a trader-vessel disembarcks from the new world. I fear there might be a clitch in there somewhere. Did anybody else encounter this problem? (or is it me? :rolleyes: )

Thnx

P.S. .... ofcourse I should be reading this forum a little better before . .. .. .. .. .ing and moaning...

Ok, it is summer 1600 (and it will always remain that way :sad: ) my game freezes upon turning. The turn ended well by which I mean I did get the blinking red End-turn button. This problem persists and at least seems unavoidable.

I tried the worldbuilder trick by removing a trade-galleon. I noticed a german vessel on the pacific side of 'Panama', even though they had only one city/harbour on that ocean! I got all hopefull and erased the unit. Problem persisted however, and in an aggresive move I erased all remaining trader vessels in sight (didn't look within cities as it seemed irrelevant to me). The problem still remained.

I know it isn't a turn-date related issue, but has anyone ever reached 1792 or even beyond?

Oh and btw, apparently I didn't have any tradevessels of my own left. How does this system work? Regeneration of vessels a few turns after one has arived and paid taxes??

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=189375 - This guy did. Actually one of the better CIV stories.

To those experiencing freezes, wait till the BtS version comes out. :)