The Ancient Mediterranean MOD [Archive] - Page 4

Pckering

Mar 04, 2006, 12:21 AM

Kingdom of the Parthians - Regnum Parthorum

This is the way the ancients expressed the name of that vast area of western Asia under the domination of the King of the Parthians. It was not called Parthia; Parthia was a small nation to the northeast of the Caspian Sea, near Bactria, and was important only because it had produced the seven great Pahlavi fiamilies, and the Arsacid Parthian kings. By the time of Gaius Marius and Sulla the Arsacid Parthian kings held sway over all the lands between the Euphrates river of mesopotamia and the Indus River of modern Pakistan. The King of the Parthians did not live in Parthia itself, put but ruled his domains from Seleuceia-on Tigris in winter and Ecbatana in summer. Pahlavi satraps ruled the various regions into which the Kingdom of the Parthians was split up, but only as the King's designated representatives. Though government was loose and no genuine national feeling existed, the King of the Parthians held his empire together by military excellence. The army was purely cavalry, but of two different kinds: light-armed bowmen who delivered the "Parthian Shot" twisted facing backward as they pretended to flee, and cataphracts who were clad from head to foot in chain mail, as were their horses. Thanks to Syrian Seleucid contacts, the Parthian court's oriental atmosphere was partially leavened by a little Hellenism.

Colleen McCullough "The Grass Crown"

An Excellent source of History in an Entertaining way.

If you want more info on this awesome series of books let me know.

I am awaiting with baited breath the new and improved 1.3

onedreamer

Mar 04, 2006, 03:14 AM

As my last post about eras got lost somehow, i just took a little bit of my time and invested it into era-screens.

Please tell me if you like them or if they have to be changed to
Bronze
Classical
Imperial

118367 118368 118369

It's a very good work as all the rest Notarzt, BUT I must say that the current era naming comes from the original TAM (Civ3), so I am not sure if Thamis would like to change it. Note that the original naming made sense with the kind of buildings / wonders that were available with eras... it could also make sense with the kind of metal used for weaponry, so uhmmmm I don't know :D

onedreamer

Mar 04, 2006, 03:16 AM

Yes, I reported same error with the worker (helicopter and other unitclasses).

Regarding the historical content
Leaders/civs

I did a little research on Mithradates. When I google him I most likely get Parthian/Persian rulers. And even one nearer to Kolchis: ruler of Pontos (northern Turkey).
When I wiki Kolchis then, the only rulers I get are Aeetes (Aietes) and his daughter Medea (half-mythological - Jason and the Argonauts). And more historically based: Kuji, Akes and Saulaces (in a free Kolchis).

Mithradates of Pontos eventually conquered Kolchis later on (about 100 BC), but I don't know if a conquering king should be ruler of Kolchis in our game. Even more as he didn't even rule himself but made his sons king of Kolchis (Mithradates Chrestus, later Machares)

About 65 BC, Kolchis gets under the rule of Pompey (Aristarchus).

So I'd suggest making Aeetes (or probably Akes, as Aeetes is not truely historically based) ruler of Kolchis.

The whole Kolchis is some sort of a legend actually... as is the one on Argonauts.

onedreamer

Mar 04, 2006, 03:21 AM

Any chance we could change the Persian UU to heavy cavalry? My civilopedia research suggests that it was heavy rather than light.

"It is noteworthy to mention that heavy cavalry was first used by the Iranian Parthians, and more so by the Sasanids (both, but especially the latter, were famed for the cataphract, heavy cavalry armed with lances) [1]. During the Roman-Persian wars, the Parthians swift mounted counter-attacks would prove too much for the Romans at first, who were the master of hand-to-hand combat.

The Parthian armies included two types of cavalry: the heavily-armed and armoured cataphracts and light brigades of mounted archers. For the Romans, who relied on heavy infantry, the Parthians were hard to defeat, as the cavalry was much faster and more mobile."

I don't agree... the Persian Empire represented in TAM is not the Parthian or Sassanid Empire that was born after the conquest of Alexander the Great. Look at its ruler: Darius. The Cataphract comes into history much later.

Dragonlord

Mar 04, 2006, 03:47 AM

Finally installed TAM and it's great! I have just one problem: I can't change to a religion, in the Religious Advisor it always says: Can't change to ... (religion)
This was playing as the Egyptians,BTW.

Anyone else have that problem? Or is it some feature of the Mod I'm not aware of?

Xanthippus

Mar 04, 2006, 04:26 AM

Kingdom of the Parthians - Regnum Parthorum

...

Colleen McCullough "The Grass Crown"

An Excellent source of History in an Entertaining way.

Colleen McCullogh is an interesting and very entertaining writer, but she sometimes sacrifices historical accuracey to enhance the story, so be wary of taking everything she writes verbatim.

But more to the point, the Parthians shouldn't really be in there as they are, essentially, the Persian Empire under a different ruling family, and they're also a long time after the original Persians who conquered their neighbours very early in Mesopotamian history. In that light, wouldn't the Persians make much more sense?

onedreamer

Mar 04, 2006, 04:58 AM

Colleen McCullogh is an interesting and very entertaining writer, but she sometimes sacrifices historical accuracey to enhance the story, so be wary of taking everything she writes verbatim.

But more to the point, the Parthians shouldn't really be in there as they are, essentially, the Persian Empire under a different ruling family, and they're also a long time after the original Persians who conquered their neighbours very early in Mesopotamian history. In that light, wouldn't the Persians make much more sense?

.... there isn't a Parthian civ in TAM, there is a Persian civ. Check the first page.

Notarzt

Mar 04, 2006, 05:43 AM

It's a very good work as all the rest Notarzt, BUT I must say that the current era naming comes from the original TAM (Civ3), so I am not sure if Thamis would like to change it. Note that the original naming made sense with the kind of buildings / wonders that were available with eras... it could also make sense with the kind of metal used for weaponry, so uhmmmm I don't know :D

That is why I asked if I am to change it to the original naming. Wouldn't be that much afford.
Just waiting for thamis to say anything about it.

And why I made screens for (stone)-bronze-iron-classical is just because thats the historical classification of that time and also fits into the technologies available.

But I don't mind making screens for bronze - classical - imperial.
I only had to make the imperial and throw away the iron :)

The whole Kolchis is some sort of a legend actually... as is the one on Argonauts.

Okay, so Aeetes would be more than appropriate. :)
But there also seems to be a historical Kolchis/Colchis, as i mentioned.

cider

Mar 04, 2006, 06:10 AM

i had build a settler before my first worker and got the same messages like you had with your first worker ! (first melee unit, first helicopter.... )

thamis

Mar 04, 2006, 07:03 AM

@Kolchis:

Change to Aeetes.

@Eras:

Please keep the original naming of Stone Age, Bronze Age, Classical Age, Imperial Age. The Classical Age ends with the fall of Greece, and TAM ends with the onset of the Migration Age.

As symbols I would use:

- A stone hammer
- The vase is cool for bronze
- Column for Classical
- A Roman SPQR-Eagle for Imperial

thamis

Mar 04, 2006, 07:04 AM

Oh, and how did this whole Parthian discussion start? They're not part of the MOD.

Regarding the Persian UU: The Sassanids and the Parthians had Cataphracts, but not the early Persians. They were good riders though, and in TAM-3 I gave them a fast light cavalry as 2nd UU. We could do that again.

woodelf

Mar 04, 2006, 07:29 AM

Is 1.3 fixed now thamis? I've seen people post that they know what's wrong, but did you upload a fixed version?

Xanthippus

Mar 04, 2006, 08:41 AM

Is 1.3 fixed now thamis? I've seen people post that they know what's wrong, but did you upload a fixed version?

I just downloaded it and it always crashes after a bit of playing. I haven't even managed to get a settler built before it happens...

Notarzt

Mar 04, 2006, 09:05 AM

@Eras:

Please keep the original naming of Stone Age, Bronze Age, Classical Age, Imperial Age. The Classical Age ends with the fall of Greece, and TAM ends with the onset of the Migration Age.

No problem

As symbols I would use:

- A stone hammer

There isn't any screen for the starting age.

- The vase is cool for bronze
- Column for Classical

Okay. So I can leave them as they are.

- A Roman SPQR-Eagle for Imperial

Will be done. Updating soon.

Notarzt

Mar 04, 2006, 09:29 AM

As this is a multilingual mod, I'd like to have the era names in the ancient/medieval lingua franca latin.
As i finished latin with a 4 (D in american school system) i could use a litte help.

Bronze age:
AETAS AERIS ?

Classical age:
AETAS CLASSICA?
very difficult... haven't found any translation of classic

Imperial age:
AETAS IMPERIORUM?

Any latin-gurus in this thread? :D

jcb

Mar 04, 2006, 09:59 AM

Mine crashes after between 40 - 60 turns. Any news on a fix...?

Shqype

Mar 04, 2006, 10:44 AM

The fix is being worked on, but please be patient and keep in mind that XML doesn't produce the error log that python does, so debugging is harder.

woodelf

Mar 04, 2006, 10:50 AM

I think people are being patient, but you might want to remove the link to 1.3 for anyone new.

Trust me, after the debacle we went through with the first release of the Song of the Moon I feel your pain. :(

Nadin Bytefelt

Mar 04, 2006, 10:57 AM

The fix is being worked on, but please be patient and keep in mind that XML doesn't produce the error log that python does, so debugging is harder.

yes.ja.
im patient

keep your good work.thnks for this mod.

onedreamer

Mar 04, 2006, 10:57 AM

Thamis, I would have a look at this nice unit for TAM: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=159818

Dragonlord

Mar 04, 2006, 11:05 AM

onedreamer

Mar 04, 2006, 11:32 AM

Dragonlord, you probably have the civics Path to the Mystics selected.

Leptomeninges

Mar 04, 2006, 01:00 PM

Shqype

Mar 04, 2006, 01:06 PM

hehe, Leptomeninges, can you send me those civilopedia entries so I can implement them?

As for Civics, nothing is written in stone, we have to ask Thamis about that... but they aren't loose, from what I know.

EDIT: Thanks to Kael, which directed me to the proper Python file, I was able to fix the glitch that gives the popup for a worker/settler being the first Mounted, Melee, Armor, Helicopter, etj. unit. Still looking for the crash causing bug, though.

thamis

Mar 04, 2006, 01:21 PM

Done with civilopedia entries for buildings and UUs. Moving on to civics/religion. Is the current list of civics final? I don't want to kill myself off trying to come up with a historical backing for something that is going to change. ;)

The current civics are there and there to stay. We could add other ones in the future, but for now, let's keep them as they are (at least their names).

If you have any questions regarding that I mean by certain weird civic names, feel free to email me.

woodelf

Mar 04, 2006, 01:35 PM

From experience crash causing bugs are from ART_DEFINE tags leading to things that aren't defined. That has been the case in our mod and several others. So when you or the AI build a building that is improperly defined the entire game CTDs. It's also why it happens at different times. Maybe that's it....

Leptomeninges

Mar 04, 2006, 01:43 PM

Let me just say a word or two about the civilopedia entries as they begin to be implemented.

First of all, I grew up in California, and my background is medicine, not history, so obviously I did a good bit of research to put these together. Having said that, it is entirely possible (if not likely) that there will be errors. Just let me know :goodjob: I have no doubt but that some of you European history buffs will notice a few things that don't seem quite right to you. We'll discuss it, and if people agree we'll make changes.

Edit: And, yes, I'll send them to you Shqype. Give me an email address! I sent them to Laurino this am.

Shqype

Mar 04, 2006, 02:12 PM

Yea Woodelf, I've had that same problem before. Thanks for the suggestion. I have a savegame file the turn before the game crashes, so I will analyze that first and see what I can come up with :)

I found the issue. The game crashes on the turn that Sardeis is to have built an Ionian Hoplite. It is not defined. I'll fix it. In addition to this, the game will have extra features, such as civilopedia entries.

So, for waiting, you guys will be rewarded for your patience. Within the next day (I hope), a new and improved WORKING version should be available :)

Pckering

Mar 04, 2006, 05:19 PM

.... there isn't a Parthian civ in TAM, there is a Persian civ. Check the first page.

Actually I was responding with to The history of Mithradates. As far as Ms. McCollough, I took that from the glossary in the back of the Grass Crown. Her fiction is definitaly creative with historical background, but she is usually right on with her bibliographys and her glossary.

Anyway it is like TAM, It increases an interest in history, and a desire to research and learn.

Notarzt

Mar 04, 2006, 05:37 PM

If Laurino implements my newest graphical modification, there will be a little surprise for all of you with the next working version. :D

So stay tuned!

Notarzt

Mar 04, 2006, 05:43 PM

my background is medicine

Oh! :) A medical colleague?

(sorry for VERY off-topic)

Shqype

Mar 04, 2006, 06:36 PM

If Laurino implements my newest graphical modification, there will be a little surprise for all of you with the next working version. :D

So stay tuned!
Well, Laurino has been busy since yesterday; I've fixed the bug and have implemented the new civilopedia entries, so if you send me the file and tell me for what unit it is for then I will implement it into this version (v1.4) :)

Leptomeninges

Mar 04, 2006, 06:48 PM

I'll have the religion civilopedia entries done later tonight so perhaps they can be included also. I'll send them to you as soon as they're done. Not sure how long the civics entries may take. I suspect they'll require abit more work.

And yes, I'm a physician. I do enjoy history as a hobby although I can't claim any particular expertise in the ancient Mediterranean. ;)

cider

Mar 04, 2006, 06:52 PM

other bugs:
-some temple is called templel
-roman legionary has 1% city attack... isn't it supposed to be 10% ? just wondering...

Leptomeninges

Mar 04, 2006, 07:55 PM

Eh, I have the religion entries mostly done, but as I was testing them, I noticed a little discrepancy. The XML (which I was working from) refers to druidism as the sixth religion. However, the game itself shows Aesir and not druidism. Interestingly the druidism entries point to the Aesir religion though. Which is in? Druidism or Aesir?

Shqype

Mar 04, 2006, 07:58 PM

Thanks for your bug reports cider. I have fixed them. The "templel" was only for the Greek Temple in the German language.

Shqype

Mar 04, 2006, 08:07 PM

Christianity, Druidism, Egyptian Pantheon, Greek Pantheon, Judaism, Mesopotamian Pantheon, and Zoroastrism are the game's religions.

Notarzt

Mar 04, 2006, 08:08 PM

so if you send me the file and tell me for what unit it is for then I will implement it into this version (v1.4) :)

The file ist on the FTP, a .rar-file that begins with "sta..." :D

the appropriate directories are given, thanks for implementing it.

Leptomeninges

Mar 04, 2006, 08:09 PM

Expect to get the pedia file in your email soon then :) Be aware that the civilopedia lists Aesir and not Druidism though. The Druidism entries point to the Aesir title.

Xanthippus

Mar 04, 2006, 09:19 PM

Also, don't know if this has been mentioned, but I can't choose to play the Illyrian Civ... is there an error with the game, or is the update log wrong where it says Illyria was added with v 1.3?

Leptomeninges

Mar 04, 2006, 09:58 PM

One more thought:

Would anyone object if we put some copper on Cyprus? I just got through writing all these civilopedia entries about how hugely important the copper mines of Cyprus were to the Aegean bronze age and I realized we didn't put any copper resource there ;)

Shqype

Mar 04, 2006, 10:17 PM

Also, don't know if this has been mentioned, but I can't choose to play the Illyrian Civ... is there an error with the game, or is the update log wrong where it says Illyria was added with v 1.3?
No, it hasn't been mentioned by anyone else, but I know that Illyria wasn't playable. It is now, though.

When Thamis awakes, he will probably post the new version of the mod, with includes the Illyrians as a playable civilization, and has many bug fixes :)

Leptomeninges, there already is a copper resource by the Mycenaean starting position...

Laurino

Mar 05, 2006, 12:17 AM

Shqype

Mar 05, 2006, 12:42 AM

Don't worry Laurino, we all make mistakes. I'm happy to say I've fixed the bugs and TAM is fully working. I've been playing the last 2 hours and I'm past 1300 AD... it's so fun! :D

I'll provide this for the team to run through before Thamis releases it, but there aren't any problems that crash the game... there are still missing text entries and whatnot, and the tech tree needs to be redone, but that will come in later versions :)

Pckering

Mar 05, 2006, 12:44 AM

TAM 1,3a will be released ASAP...
I hope to have it done by monday afternoon, or early tuesday.
This version will be way more tested than the other ones, as I totaly hate to have released a disgustingly shitty version... Tabarnak... As I am the main coder, I gotta say I take this failure totally on my shoulders. YES I should have checked it... YES I should have made backup versions... I'm sorry for the deceptions...

No Worries, bugs are a part of life. We all jump the gun at times. I think I can speak for everyone who loves TAM, you guys who put this thing together are wonderful and have provided me, beginning with Civ III Tam many hours of enjoyment and entertainment. Some people hunt, some fish, some tennis. Me? TAM all the way my friend...

Thanks again for all your hard work

Notarzt

Mar 05, 2006, 04:27 AM

Part of the team (me) also testplayed the mod. I think its ready to be released. Encounterd no CTDs. Gampeplay/graphics-stuff is part of upcoming versions.

cider

Mar 05, 2006, 07:33 AM

Bug report :) (i have the german version):
- it takes millions of rounds for a roman legionary to build a street or a fortress
- the ship "bireme" has no skin
- you can build two kinds of ships, the "triere" (2 strenght, 2 moves) and the "bireme" (3 strength, 3 moves), but both cost 50 shields. so, the bireme should be more expensive
- the time scale should be changed - maybe you can change it to a seasons-system. after 4 rounds 1 year passes or something like that, just to be in the right century (i'm now in 1600 AD and don't even have architecture ;) )

onedreamer

Mar 05, 2006, 10:04 AM

- the ship "bireme" has no skin

yeah I think bireme has some problems...: http://erec.altervista.org/bireme.JPG

Notarzt

Mar 05, 2006, 11:01 AM

I'll stop skinning a bit (or at least reduce the speed), as I also want to play 1.3 :)
Working on a sword for the berserk, and probably it will be implemented in 1.4

Next skin will be "spearman", as spearman and heavy spearman come very quickly
and need some graphical diversion.

Shqype

Mar 05, 2006, 11:41 AM

Bug report (i have the german version):
- it takes millions of rounds for a roman legionary to build a street or a fortress
- the ship "bireme" has no skin
- you can build two kinds of ships, the "triere" (2 strenght, 2 moves) and the "bireme" (3 strength, 3 moves), but both cost 50 shields. so, the bireme should be more expensive
- the time scale should be changed - maybe you can change it to a seasons-system. after 4 rounds 1 year passes or something like that, just to be in the right century (i'm now in 1600 AD and don't even have architecture )

The bireme has a very wierd colored skin, and that needs to be fixed.

The trireme and galley both appear with the same tech; galley would normally be replaced with bireme, but both are available in order to give the Phoenicians 2 naval UUs.

About the time scale, yes, we did speak about changing it. And it will be fixed in the next version :)

And the Roman Legionary will be able to build roads/forts half as fast as a worker (for now).

BenGee171

Mar 05, 2006, 12:31 PM

There is a mod wich changes the State Religion Screen so you can display more than 7 Religions, i think 20; 10 per row. Could it be that you would like to enter more religions in the game?

Notarzt

Mar 05, 2006, 03:56 PM

Yeah! I did it! I made fire! I made FIRE!

:D

But really, i just made my very first 3d models 48 hours ago, and here
is the already presented berserk with a germanic broadsword instead
of an aztec paddle.
@ thamis: there is something we can do about it :)

first impressions:

118618

please enjoy

CREDITS: I really need to thank Rabbit, White. He helped me a lot getting my model into CIV. Thank you!

woodelf

Mar 05, 2006, 04:11 PM

Awesome news and great berserker Notarzt.

Shqype

Mar 05, 2006, 06:50 PM

Congrats on the model Notarzt! Although his limbs look funny :p I know it is very difficult to do that.

And I have great news for everyone. I've been working on the technology tree to make it nice, and it's coming along great :D

Leptomeninges

Mar 05, 2006, 07:29 PM

Grats on that Notarzt! Pretty complicated to actually designate new shapes I hear. :)

Shqype

Mar 05, 2006, 10:22 PM

I've fixed alot more bugs, and have fixed the tech tree as well! Here it is, brand new and revised :D

http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/8638/tamtechtreebyshqype9jh.th.jpg (http://img48.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tamtechtreebyshqype9jh.jpg)

Notarzt

Mar 06, 2006, 12:20 AM

Very nice work, Shqype!
Regarding your revised tech tree:

1. either make the working boat available with boats or make "create fishing boats" available with fishing. it doesn't make sense to be able to build something you cannot use. i'd prefer moving the boat to boat building

2. Following arrows need a bit attention:
archery --> recurve bow (horse riding is placed above it)
bronze working --> furnace (cartopgraphy is placed above it)

But looks great :) Thanks for your work.

Just one more thing (not really a problem of the tech tree):
I wouldn't make the colossus obsolete with astronomy (as in vanilla civ). The two techs are much nearer and no other wonder in tam obsoletes. Why should the colossus?

@ funny berserk limbs: i think you mean the not completely invisible circles around his wrists and ankles. I didn't manage to delete them. But they are only visible in extreme closeup, so I left them as they are.

Shqype

Mar 06, 2006, 01:45 AM

Notarzt, it has been fixed, check the email and test the file; it is now ready for release :)

Dragonlord

Mar 06, 2006, 02:31 AM

Dragonlord, you probably have the civics Path to the Mystics selected.

Can't check because I installed 1.3 so the old save won't work... so, could be... but what does that civic have to do with it? I didn't notice anything in the description about its blocking a state religion or religion switches.

If that's the case, maybe there should be an entry in the description?:(

onedreamer

Mar 06, 2006, 06:41 AM

Can't check because I installed 1.3 so the old save won't work... so, could be... but what does that civic have to do with it? I didn't notice anything in the description about its blocking a state religion or religion switches.

If that's the case, maybe there should be an entry in the description?:(

actually it is written in the description that with that civics you will have a "no state religion". If you want to convert to a religion you must change that civic first.

woodelf

Mar 06, 2006, 06:45 AM

Nice work on the tree Shqype. :)

Dragonlord

Mar 06, 2006, 07:47 AM

actually it is written in the description that with that civics you will have a "no state religion". If you want to convert to a religion you must change that civic first.

OK, now I get it.. thanks for clearing that up for me!:goodjob:

Notarzt

Mar 06, 2006, 09:35 AM

Some interface modifications have been made as well as a few buttons
and a leaderhead update
I'll play now for a little while (as i intended a day ago) :P

onedreamer

Mar 06, 2006, 09:56 AM

Notarzt, if you keep releasing your excellent artwork without stops, I will try and make a big effort and play for both me and yourself. What do you think, deal ?

Notarzt

Mar 06, 2006, 10:21 AM

Hm, let me think about it...
I think not. Playing TAM is too much fun :)

BenGee171

Mar 06, 2006, 01:27 PM

I think it is better to use a seperate Technologie for every Religion, which needs only 2 Turn to develop. Like in that mod (sorry i dont know the name). And when one developed the Technologie he get the Religion and all others get the Technologie automaticly. That would be a nice system. Also i think only Egypt should have Egypt Religion same with Greeks... and the others... how about that?

BenGee171

Mar 06, 2006, 01:38 PM

ADD THIS UNITS!!!

You self got them in Assets\Art\Units\Scenari\!! but they are not in your mod!!
please add them!! for more differece between those units.

I tried to change the Spy to an other Unit Model but it doesn't work. Anybody got experience whit that?

EDIT: Sorry, i forgot... GRATULATION NOTARZT... das Schwertmodell ist sehr schön.!!!

Notarzt

Mar 06, 2006, 04:03 PM

The companion_cavalry will be implemented for heavy cavalry. or probably it already is. I originally planned to reskin it, but there's no need to.

thamis

Mar 06, 2006, 05:11 PM

1.4 posted!

thamis

Mar 06, 2006, 05:17 PM

Posting change list tomorrow.

Lunargent

Mar 06, 2006, 05:43 PM

The scenario map always crashes about 40-50 turns in. It was doing it in 1.3, and it repeats in 1.4. I was able to play 1.3 for a while without it crashing, but I was playing a continents map and realized that there were no units that could enter the ocean, so I abandoned that one. I'll try to see if I can find what is causing it in the world editor.

Nice mod though. I like the mass promotions upon making new units that happens when you have all the smithies. It makes being technologically advanced be even more important. One thing I really miss though from Fall from Heaven is easily available movement upgrades. It takes forever to get your units in position for a seige. Making the mobility promotion available to more units eariler would improve things alot IMO.

Shqype

Mar 06, 2006, 06:12 PM

I like the mass promotions upon making new units that happens when you have all the smithies. It makes being technologically advanced be even more important.
Be aware, they aren't cumulative. A unit can have either Bronze Weapons or Iron Weapons/Steel Weapons; each new building replaces the previous.

The map version included in the upload is an older map version. The newest map was not included with this update. It is being fixed though, and the new map should be incorporated soon by Thamis.

Thank you for your patience.

Lunargent

Mar 06, 2006, 06:21 PM

Notarzt

Mar 06, 2006, 06:43 PM

After a few "non-unit" graphics:

SPEARMAN (reskinned)

little picture (klick to enlarge)
118741

and the button
118791

violet parts are teamcolour.

HEAVY SPEARMAN (new 3d-shield)

Standing
118797

Defending
118795

Fighting
118796

button = vanilla spearman button

I know that the shield still collides with the spear in some occasions.
i'll have to learn to merge two rotation-matrices to rotate the shield
on a second axis. could take some time :)

Shqype

Mar 06, 2006, 07:29 PM

They may not be supposed to be cumulative, but I was popping out new units with around 50 experience points.

I found that deleting the Lydian civ just before it was able to make an Ionian Hoplite allowed me to progress to the next turn, so the problem is probably with that unit. Editt- Err nm, there it went, it just lasted a while longer than before.
You have the old version of the mod.

Wait for the fix to be available. When it is, DELETE YOUR PREVIOUS TAM FOLDER, then unzip the new one. The problems will be fixed.

Notarzt

Mar 07, 2006, 05:01 AM

Please pay attention to the changes in my last posting about
spearman - heavy spearman

thamis

Mar 07, 2006, 06:25 AM

Laurino, can you please change the Libyan Mercenary to have 2 moves? Is it possible to add extra moves in only one terrain (desert)? Otherwise, just make it a normal spearman with 2 moves. The +25% desert defense is a joke for a UU.

Notarzt

Mar 07, 2006, 06:26 AM

ok, i went a little bit into matrix-mathematics and here ist the result:
the final

HEAVY SPEARMAN
without spear/shield-collisions

standing
118802

guarding
118803

fighting
118804

I think it will be implemented in 1.5

thamis

Mar 07, 2006, 06:35 AM

I posted a version with the fixed map file.

thamis

Mar 07, 2006, 06:39 AM

Another thing: Horses should appear with Chariots. Or Chariots should not require horses!

Notarzt

Mar 07, 2006, 06:42 AM

chariots without horses?
:D
i should reskin them quickly. would 4 slaves be appropriate?

and as we're talking about the tech tree:

a few words regarding woodchopping
we now have bronze revealed with bronze working. fine. but most tiles (i.e. near hammurabi which i testplayed)
are covered with forest. so i have to develop 2 more techs to be able to use it. hm.
either make it available with woodworking (what would make perfect sense) or add it as a separate technologie
after woodworking.
any change letting woodchopping come in a bit earlier (just a bit) would be fine.

thamis

Mar 07, 2006, 07:01 AM

Yes, chop wood with Wood Working.

thamis

Mar 07, 2006, 07:01 AM

I was more thinking of a goat-drawn chariot... ;)

No, seriously, no need to reskin of course.

thamis

Mar 07, 2006, 07:04 AM

thamis

Mar 07, 2006, 07:05 AM

Oh and bronze (for the heavy spear) is also a bit less golden and slightly more reddish, but less so than copper.

Notarzt

Mar 07, 2006, 07:53 AM

woodelf

Mar 07, 2006, 07:58 AM

I'm definitely playing v1.4 as soon as I get home. Great job guys. :goodjob:

Dragonlord

Mar 07, 2006, 08:49 AM

I'm definitely playing v1.4 as soon as I get home. Great job guys. :goodjob:

Same here :goodjob:

onedreamer

Mar 07, 2006, 09:16 AM

the standard spearman doesn't have any bronze armour. its all leather and cloth.

heavy spearman: i didn't change the skin, just added the shield and made it fit the vanilla armour. but i could change it if you want to.

well, the shield you added doesn't exactly match the color/lighting of the armor.
If you ever skin the ionian hoplite make it wield a round shield.

Great skinning btw. I absolutely love the early spearman.

@Thamis

I think it's definitely possible to allow double movement on certain terrain type. See the Guerrilla II and Woodsman II promotion from Vanilla that allow double movement on hills and forests.

onedreamer

Mar 07, 2006, 09:18 AM

PS: Awesome spearmen. Just a suggestion: I think the tone of the armour should be a tiny bit more reddish. This looks more like gold rather than copper.

Copper:
http://www.rondaterry.com/copper%20swirl.jpg

I've seen ancient copper weapons in museums around Italy and they looked dark greenish actually.

woodelf

Mar 07, 2006, 10:04 AM

I've seen ancient copper weapons in museums around Italy and they looked dark greenish actually.

Isn't that simply the oxidized bronze showing it's age?

thamis

Mar 07, 2006, 10:39 AM

Notarzt

Mar 07, 2006, 11:24 AM

Isn't that simply the oxidized bronze showing it's age?

Right. New bronze weapons look bronze not green :)
Thats in fact oxidation. "Patina".

Here you have an example of different bronze-patinas
118840

And I'll work on making the shield more "bronze".
Its not that easy, as 3dsmax won't let me export models i textured. i'm bound to one colour.

@ shield form:
i have the shield form from the picture here, and I think it's ok for a standard heavy spearman
hoplite won't come with that shield. i just designed it to make normal vs. heavy look more different

118841

Bosh

Mar 07, 2006, 11:29 AM

:) Yes, Tam 1.4 is working great. It looks good and feels great to play, this is what I have been waiting for: a good historical scenario.
Nice work man!

Notarzt

Mar 07, 2006, 12:01 PM

I've worked on the heavy spearman about 2 hours now and it seems that i cannot manage to make the shield gleam less :cry:

I will leave it golden as it is for the moment and concentrate on skinning the things laurino wanted.

Drogear

Mar 07, 2006, 12:45 PM

Im currently playing my first 1,4 game, built the bireme unit as rome for the first time. I just had to stop the game and post here cuz the bireme is the singel must ugly unit i ever seen! dont the model it self but the colors, o my god the colors! bright green/red/yellow...

Well anyways the game runns just fine and seems pretty good!

onedreamer

Mar 07, 2006, 12:49 PM

@Drogear that's obviously a bug... btw it was already there in 1.3.

@woodelf
yeah possibly. I thought the same but I am not an expert :D

Drogear

Mar 07, 2006, 12:57 PM

why not make the smithys national wonders? as it is now I built them i every city becuz I had no other buildnings left o get. (epic/monarchy as rome)

BenGee171

Mar 07, 2006, 02:12 PM

I'll try 1.4+mapfix in a few minutes. Thank you for releasing the fixed Version so early.

woodelf

Mar 07, 2006, 03:17 PM

I have my debugger on by default....do you guys want me to list the python errors or do you know about them? Not game crashing errors, but the box is popping up at times.

HolyOne

Mar 07, 2006, 03:24 PM

Leptomeninges

Mar 07, 2006, 03:30 PM

I have my debugger on by default....do you guys want me to list the python errors or do you know about them? Not game crashing errors, but the box is popping up at times.

Shqype is in charge of the python I believe. You can probably just message him with them if you've found something you think we should look at.

woodelf

Mar 07, 2006, 03:42 PM

Shqype is in charge of the python I believe. You can probably just message him with them if you've found something you think we should look at.

Unless I turn it off it's pretty annoying! :p

I'll send him a PM, but I'm sure he's aware of it.

Shqype

Mar 07, 2006, 04:41 PM

Uh, Woodelf, I didn't get any PMs :p

This version 1.4 is great. I had the pleasure "taking control" of the programming while Laurino was away this weekend (thanks to him for the hard work he's done since the beginning!). The modding team was able to help me out, like Leptomeninges' civilopedia entries, and Notarzt's graphics and balance testing. I spent the whole weekend on it, and as you can all tell, alot was done!

Please post your thoughts about the changes when you get a chance. I wonder what everyone thinks of my Illyrian civ? :p

woodelf

Mar 07, 2006, 04:56 PM

Oops, haven't yet. Something about FEAT_UNITCLASS_SKIRMISHER. Some turns it needed 5 clicks to remove it, but the game plays and looks terrific. :D

Shqype

Mar 07, 2006, 06:27 PM

Ah, I thought it would be something related to the Feats ... although I didn't get the error :confused:

The game still needs to be tweaked, obviously... and the map needs to be more balanced. I will work on that. Iberia still has a very overpowered starting location, and easily rise to the top every game, hundreds of points above the other players.

Perhaps barbarian starting locations might do the trick? ;)

Laurino

Mar 07, 2006, 06:38 PM

Hi all!

@Woodelf: send me, if you can, the debug logfiles if you have any, or the list of the bugs you get.

for bireme: not a bug;)... simply a template skin that I was using that I forgot to replace with the good one... for those of you who know XML, you are aware of the way to have the vanilla galley skin back... for the others, it'll alll be gone in 1.5...;)

talking of 1.5... well it's near;)

I'm already playing with new ressources implemented, and the promotions list is being established...

I played my first real TAM game yesterday, and we realized that eraly game REALLY lacks city attack capacities... I was thinking of expanding the early game siege possibilities with towers, "sappeurs" teams (french word... you know, the guys that would dig holes under the walls foundations to make it collapse), and the like... these would of course not have the collateral damage power that catapults do, but could slowly undermine fortifications

Lunargent

Mar 07, 2006, 06:54 PM

The English term is close- Sappers. Yes. I was appalled at my inability to take my enemies cities with twice their strength or more, until I finally got catapults. Instead of making it a new unit, make it a promotion that branches off of city attack1.

woodelf

Mar 07, 2006, 06:55 PM

Hi all!

@Woodelf: send me, if you can, the debug logfiles if you have any, or the list of the bugs you get.

Where are the files stored? Without them I'll have to restart a game and jot them down.

Shqype

Mar 07, 2006, 07:51 PM

Nice mod, huh?

Laurino

Mar 07, 2006, 11:31 PM

Notarzt

Mar 08, 2006, 12:37 AM

Perhaps barbarian starting locations might do the trick? ;)

My words! But make them not that easy to conquer if Thamis gives the ok for that.

Notarzt

Mar 08, 2006, 12:46 AM

The English term is close- Sappers. Yes. I was appalled at my inability to take my enemies cities with twice their strength or more, until I finally got catapults.

I havent encountered such problems. I attacked about the time recurve bow came in. As archers have +25% CA and high first strike chances (my babylonian composite archers even higher) it was absolutely no problem to conquer two adjectant phoenician cities who had about +40% CD and STR 4 units in it (one with 2 units - okay, easy - and one with 6 units).

Instead of making it a new unit, make it a promotion that branches off of city attack1.

But it wouldn't feel good to have this promotion before siege warfare either.

I'll probably design something like an early ram, that would more likely take down fortification and less likely make collateral damage. As I think rams were the first siege weapons to take down gates.

But ... omg I got THAT much to do.
Btw: if anyone has skills in skinning and 3d-model making - i really could use some help

onedreamer

Mar 08, 2006, 04:50 AM

The game still needs to be tweaked, obviously... and the map needs to be more balanced. I will work on that. Iberia still has a very overpowered starting location, and easily rise to the top every game, hundreds of points above the other players.

Perhaps barbarian starting locations might do the trick? ;)

Points depend much on the extension of the territory, and Iberians have a huge territory at their disposal, which they actually didn't control in real history, if I'm not wrong.
You could make the map zoom more on the center of mediterranean, leaving out the useless deserts in the southern area of the map and a piece of spain and iran and giving more tiles to romans, greeks, carthaginians, egyptians etc.

@Siege Weapons

I'd rather introduce an Aries than towers... probably easier to skin and more realistic, towers were more advanced siege weapons.

woodelf

Mar 08, 2006, 05:11 AM

Hi Woodelf!

Did you do it with the debug MOD that is available, or just the debug options in the civ.ini? Because if it was just the .ini file, then I don't think that it generates a logfile. Otherwise, it's said on the debug MOD thread, I think it's in "your documents" temp, or log dir, somehing like this...

The .ini file. I had it on default to look at the Moon mod or else wouldn't have noticed anything in TAM since it runs smoothly. Not sure what the Feats are that are triggering the popup error box.

Lachlan

Mar 08, 2006, 05:59 AM

TAM is Good !

Ingvina Freyr

Mar 08, 2006, 06:15 AM

Waiting for the final release of TAM is a lot like being eight years old the day before christmas, don't you think? :bounce:

Shqype

Mar 08, 2006, 09:38 AM

My words! But make them not that easy to conquer if Thamis gives the ok for that.
Yes, this was something you mentioned in an email regarding balance, and this was something I thought about since I came on the team.

Iberia is able to expand unchecked, and they have very good terrain and resources. In my game the Gauls were the top civ (because the openings in the Italian Alps allowed them to cross through and found a city between Roman and Illyrian territory), UNTIL the Iberians eclipsed them and and once again rose high above everybody else.

So the map will obviously have to be tweaked. I'll work on that. With Thamis' approval, and some suggestions from you guys, I'de like to put barbarian cities with "Barbarian Defenders" [new immobile unit with high strength] which will give some, like the Iberians, trouble with expanding too early.

My plan is to give all areas some sort of barbaric opposition; By Greece and Illyria I'de like to put a barbarian city "Thracia." Maybe at the very north of Rome an "Etruria" city can be placed. Iberia can have 2 or 3 barbarian cities. etc., etc.

These are just examples and suggestions, in the direction of balance and fun.

thamis

Mar 08, 2006, 09:42 AM

Ok, here are my suggestions:

- Please close the gaps in the alps. I did that on purpose to defend Rome a bit, as from my TAM3 experience, Rome would always be pushed into its penninsula.
- I suggest that the Axeman gets +15% city attack.
- We should add another siege unit early. Sappers are a good idea. Rams would work too. Whatever is easier. I guess a RAM can't be skinned, but we could re-skin workers to be sappers (make them more military-looking).

woodelf

Mar 08, 2006, 09:45 AM

woodelf

Mar 08, 2006, 09:47 AM

@thamis - I think some of the unit makers could make a primitive ram unit model. I would think it would pretty easy compared to what they've been coming up with.

Shqype

Mar 08, 2006, 09:52 AM

Shyqpe - Have you checked out the "turrets" that I begged Belizan to code into SotM? The sole purpose was to have a non-moving defender that the AI would always build, but we limited it to only having one per city. If that one dies they can build another though. That way you don't see 5-10 of these super defenders, but at the same time you do have a defender that won't get run over immediately. And ours have an automatic upgrade with tech....although that wouldn't happen with barbs, or would it?
No, I haven't check them out, but I did plan on doing something similar: the barb cities would be preplaced, a part of the scenario, as would that unit. It would be unbuildable by all; once the city lost it, its gone. The idea is that until the Iberians get more powerful units, they will not be able to defeat such a defender (unless they send alot of weaker units, of course). This would limit their expansion until a later time in the game.

Alright thamis, I'll close the gaps :)

woodelf

Mar 08, 2006, 09:57 AM

The non-moving part is the key so that the player or AI can't entice the powerful unit out of the city, negating it's bonuses.

Shqype

Mar 08, 2006, 10:06 AM

Yep. I've done such things with my Gjergj Kastrioti scenario in development, trust me ;)

HolyOne

Mar 08, 2006, 11:25 AM

I have a few thoughts about religions that I want to share with you.
First of all I strongly support the idea to make certain religions foundable by certain civs. This can be done like in EE3.
Now, my main problem is, that the early religions become dominant too easily. Aesir is only 2 techs from the start for example. In my current game 7(!) civs have Aesir as state religion, 3 or 4 Mesopotamian, 2 greek and the rest is me or destroyed. I founded 3 religions as Rome: 1st Egyptian it spread quite well, as there were still a few "empty" cities. The other 2 is Zoroastrianism and Christianity. Z has spread to only 1 city naturally, the other was by the missionary I got on foundation. C spread only to Rome and only by missionary. I also noticed when I sieged one city after the other that they were also stacked with missionaries. The AI, especially the ones with Holy Cities use missionaries very actively. In my other game the schythians were busy converting my christian people back to druidism. (I didn't cancel the Open Borders because they were one of the few who were willing to trade with me.) It's good to see that the AI finally uses the religious units, but it makes the spread of the late and should-be-powerful religions (christianity, zoroastrianism) impossible.
I thought of two possible solutions.
1. Strip the missionary from the early religions and let them spread only naturally. This may seem drastic,, but think about it. These religions established in certain geographic regions, and that's it. They did not expand but co-existed with many other religions, brought by conquerors. For example the greeks tried to spread their religions in the hellenic states after Alexander, but the influence of the local religions, mystic cults was stronger, so the conquerors assimilated: it was impossible to make a classical greek or a roman believe that his king=a god, but that's what the Ptolemaios and Seleucid dynasty did. This method would (hopefully) make the early religions "obsolete" over time, but that exactly what happened. It's hard to imagine a druid coming to town, banging everyones head to worship nature:crazyeye:
2. The above solution presents some gameplay balance issues and maybe it's too drastic. The compromise is to make all missionaries available with the late religions. Like Theology or something. And perhaps cut back the spread rate of early religions. This way there may be space for new religions to spread.
(3.) Another solution, but I don't think it's possible, is to make certain religions (for eyample: egyptian, mesopotamian) spread only within a certain radius. That would stop cities converting to your religion on the other side of the world without having any contact with your civ (as it happened with me and a phoenician city: that was my first contact with that civ) I guess it is impossible because of the engine but perhaps you may enlighten me about that.

I hope I was helpful and constructive and most of all clear. Sometimes I feel if I was just rambling about :rolleyes:

BenGee171

Mar 08, 2006, 01:36 PM

1.4 is a very good version of TAM i am very happy and suprised to play such a good mod after all what earlyer versions showed me. Surely i knew that TAM will get a very good playable mod with much things wich can make you happy as a player. The Changes from 1.3 to 1.4 were sou huge, that i did not thought to get such a far version to play with 1.4. Congratulations!!

There are some things i want to notice here.
-I think it would be better to make a larger Coast. I was playing as Phoenician Civi and I was setleing between turkey and egypt i build only one colonie at those part of lybia with the sheeps.
I had good relations to egypt. but was on bad terms with others.
Kürus (green) and i had open boarders.
I declared war at Agamemnon (greek). After sending my first ship with 3 Units inside to Creta (Long Island south of greek) Kürus closed his boarders to me. So i had to transport my units to Carthage over Scicillia Itale to Greek. That was a long way which took me 13 turns.
I didn't like that between egypt and Creta is no coast. There is not much Room on the Map and Kürus builded so much Troops that i did want to declare war to him to take a better position in the mediteran sea. East of me there where only Dessert and Messepotania. Where i did not had information of Troop Strengh.
I think it fastly happens that you have no more Room to move on this map.

I would like to ask you if somebody of you wants to create with me in teamwork a new map!? a bigger map. I can use that bmptowbs, and i like it to paint maps. but i am not so good with placing threes, terrain and recource. also the maps i made are very big. my last is 170x85. the one before 109x92. surely i could make a smaller one for a faster scenario.. but i stink a little strech of the map u got would helpe to make the game develop better as now.

I also think siege is comming to late. but you are already working on it.

I dont like some of the Leaderheads. I will search google for better once if i find something i like i will show you.

Here is an Example of Maps i made. The Maps is 170x85 and my newest one.

Shqype

Mar 08, 2006, 01:59 PM

That's a very nice looking map!

I'm glad you like the changes from 1.3 to 1.4, it was alot of work, but it was done!

Now, I am working on the maps and have 2 more map sizes planned: the same TAM map but one smaller version and one larger version. You would like to play on the larger version, I'm sure.

There are also some slightly different maps I was given to implement to give players more of a choice with playing on slightly different maps with more civs.

Your map is good, like I said. Speak with Thamis about letting us use it and maybe he'll approve for it to be in a future version :)

Pckering

Mar 08, 2006, 02:22 PM

BenGee171

Mar 08, 2006, 02:24 PM

There are not many recources placed at the moment only those wich locations i found in a map of the roman empire trade routes.

but you know the starting locations and could do the changes how you like to balance the recources on the map. i dont know much about placing recource... sometimes too much... sometimes not balanced... but i think terrain would be allright. I also could do another one. I did that map just for fun on 3 days... its not much work for me if i have good material to overpaint.
I will show you the map i used for makeing this one. It was very simple, cause of the minimal colors i had to change. I just had to add eastern parts by hand to have a closed mediteranen sea. and sure i realy want to offer you my help for this scenario... i like it very much and there is so much potencial i has. maybee this one is too big... 170x85 is very huge. you could place 2 or 3 civis only on italy and his islands. and look at the very huge spain and balkan.... i think this would be build up huge babarian tribes in a game, also the big dessert. and i could look for a map with parts of babylon and part of keltia and germany.

so here is the map is used to make this one

BenGee171

Mar 08, 2006, 02:29 PM

ok, my map is big enough to place phoenicia and israel on the same coast. if you like i will give you my map

BenGee171

Mar 08, 2006, 03:49 PM

thamis

Mar 08, 2006, 03:51 PM

Is it possible to do what was done in TAM CivIII by giving each civ, their own wonder? Like the riches of Kroises, or Solomons temple for Israel? That would give them their own unique Culture? It would only spread by conquest or by culture spreading... Example, The greeks would get the parthenon, Egypt the pyramids.. ETC. It may be too much work.

Just a thought.

I'm planning on doing that!

thamis

Mar 08, 2006, 03:53 PM

Ok i searched a lot, finaly i found what i was looking foor... a realy pretty map for working with. please mark the are we need with a red rectangle. i will use this are of the map to make a wbs file. and if you got something in mind about the size please tell me too.

I think if you rotate the map by a few degrees clockwise we'd get a cool map with less desert! Size? Large or Huge.

thamis

Mar 08, 2006, 04:00 PM

Why is the Ionian Hoplite available with Hunting?

woodelf

Mar 08, 2006, 04:00 PM

Sorry it took so long and double sorry if anyone else already looked this up. Here's the python error from the .ini file debugging.

File "CvEventInterface", line 23, in onEvent
File "CvEventManager", line 164, in handleEvent
File "CvEventManager", line 475, in onUnitBuilt
File "CvAdvisorUtils,", line 55, in unitBuiltFeats

Attribute Error: type objects 'CvPythonExtensions.FeatTypes' has no attribute 'FEAT_UNITCLASS_SKIRMISHER'

BenGee171

Mar 08, 2006, 04:05 PM

ok... do you like this version of the map (if this is the full map??)

BenGee171

Mar 08, 2006, 04:15 PM

aha is ionian hoplite aviable to early?? maybe this makes the problem kürus was too strong for me to attack him. he had so much of this units in his citys i did not want to risk loosing my land in a war aggainst him. (i was phoenician civi). I think the second spearman unit with (5str) should be able to get the promotion for city attack +25... those axemans even with the promotion got such a little chance to be victorius that you have to wait till you got a catapult to capture a strong defended city or you need a lot of units. maybe it should be easier in the beginning.
What i liked is that i always got much better units then the barbarian tribes which came from arabia and the sahara to attack my citys. so they where realy no problem. and they realy should be no problem cause i dont like it to fight the first 3000 years against barbarians like sometimes in orginal if you are unlucky.

thamis

Mar 08, 2006, 04:17 PM

Move civic "Path of the Mystics" to Astrology.

BenGee171

Mar 08, 2006, 04:25 PM

i dont like it when a technology is developed there is always been playing that sound always the same cause of the new technologys. please do something against. maybee a audio signal is allright but i dont like this guy telling me things i dont like to hear while i am playing (i play it in german) one more thing for the german version: phoenician should be writen phönizien, phönizisch, phönizier, (earlyer by greeks they were called phönikien) but with an ö not ü!!

What i realy like is the Titlescreen!! AWESOME!!
and The Sound when i hear that wardrums i want to go to waaaaar in spearman formations . . . . if you know what i mean. AWESOME!!
that sound isn't from the orginal game or?

Shqype

Mar 08, 2006, 04:33 PM

thamis

Mar 08, 2006, 05:26 PM

Lydia needs a few more resources to be competitive at all.

Notarzt

Mar 08, 2006, 05:33 PM

What i realy like is the Titlescreen!! AWESOME!!

Thanks a lot!
But for copyright-issues it eventually will have to be redesigned. But it will stay as it is for now.

Notarzt

Mar 08, 2006, 05:35 PM

I dont like some of the Leaderheads. I will search google for better once if i find something i like i will show you.

No need to. There will be brand-new leaderheads in uniform design in the next version.

BenGee171

Mar 08, 2006, 05:44 PM

sounds good man :) you make me happy

Notarzt

Mar 08, 2006, 05:55 PM

And here a graphical teaser for one of the next versions.
As Laurino mentioned, new resources will be implemented with
one of the following versions.
Skins for six of them are ready.

118965

the buildings are modern ones most time. just imagine ancient ones :)

woodelf

Mar 08, 2006, 06:15 PM

You're a machine Notzart! :borg: Fantastic work you're cranking out.

Leptomeninges

Mar 08, 2006, 06:37 PM

Those really look nice. Stuff like custom resources makes a mod :)

Shqype

Mar 08, 2006, 07:36 PM

Notarzt, those are really beautiful!

You asked if you could edit the Teuta leaderhead: by all means! The only picture I could find of Queen Teuta was a statue, so I just chose to put it on a blue background. If you find something better, please let me know. I have some ideas for possible backgrounds, so we'll speak about it :)

PS- another map issue: Bacitracte (Gaul capital) had a city of size 18, while the next leading nation had one of size 11 or 12.

Pckering

Mar 08, 2006, 08:49 PM

I'm planning on doing that!

You really are awesome Thamis.. LOL
Been playing 1.4 and it is great! Other than some of the things people have posted everything is great so far.. My wife is out filing the divorce papers as I post... LOL

Shqype

Mar 08, 2006, 09:03 PM

PS - thanks for reporting the error Woodelf. I fixed that python error in relation to the UNITCOMBAT FEAT. No problems now :) The fix will be in the next version of the mod.

Notarzt

Mar 09, 2006, 01:24 AM

You asked if you could edit the Teuta leaderhead: by all means!

To be honest, I already did that. But it won't be a historical correct picture. I had to make some compromises as I wanted to create leaderheads with the same basic design.

It should have been a surprise, but after all, why not post them here:

119016

Please notice that they are an interim solution. We're planning to implement selfdesigned 3D-leaderheads.
So don't complain too much, they'll be gone sooner or later :D

Pvblivs

Mar 09, 2006, 01:27 AM

ok... do you like this version of the map (if this is the full map??)

If it isn't too few space for Egypt it looks good. Of course some things are still missing :-)

Notarzt

Mar 09, 2006, 03:54 AM

And here comes the first fully redesigned unit for TAM:

SIEGE TOWER

The model still comes with two towers a unit. That has to
be changed to one. But thats Python/XML (I don't know),
that means Laurinos/Shqypes job.

Sounds come from the catapult but the catapult-stone
is deleted so there wont be any battle animation.

119019

If you wonder about the stats... we're still discussing that.
There have been a few interesting proposals how the tower
could function. But no final decision has been made.
That's up to Thamis.

There isn't any teamcolour on the tower. But that a
problem other modellers also have. But I think the flag is
enough (it will be better visible after one tower has been
removed from the unit).

Notarzt

Mar 09, 2006, 04:37 AM

And I revised the two spearman as I finally found a solution
for my little shield-problem.

SPEARMAN
The normal spearman now gets the rectengular shield as it
is skinned as a leather shield. That suits the older spearman
better than the newer one.
Nothing else has changed.

119024

HEAVY SPEARMAN
His model now is completely vanilla. But I managed to make
his armour less shiny and more like bronze.
In the .jpg there is also a picture of the original spearman
for comparison.

119025

I hope these models are now satisfying.

Pvblivs

Mar 09, 2006, 04:49 AM

Ohne Deine Hilfe wäre Tam echt krank dran, Notarzt ;)

Sorry for speaking German, I just wanted to appreciate Notarzts efforts appropriately.

thamis

Mar 09, 2006, 05:20 AM

thamis

Mar 09, 2006, 05:21 AM

You really are awesome Thamis.. LOL
Been playing 1.4 and it is great! Other than some of the things people have posted everything is great so far.. My wife is out filing the divorce papers as I post... LOL

I'm sorry to hear that. Don't tell me that I am responsible for destroying a marriage with my MOD? I would stop this MOD immediately!

thamis

Mar 09, 2006, 05:22 AM

To be honest, I already did that. But it won't be a historical correct picture. I had to make some compromises as I wanted to create leaderheads with the same basic design.

It should have been a surprise, but after all, why not post them here:

119016

Please notice that they are an interim solution. We're planning to implement selfdesigned 3D-leaderheads.
So don't complain too much, they'll be gone sooner or later :D

LOL! As a film buff, I can tell you what film those came from for half of them! Oh, and I find Eva Green as Dido particularly funny somehow.

thamis

Mar 09, 2006, 05:25 AM

woodelf

Mar 09, 2006, 05:28 AM

Elhoim

Mar 09, 2006, 05:41 AM

ok... do you like this version of the map (if this is the full map??)

That is a very cool map!

Notarzt

Mar 09, 2006, 05:52 AM

@tamis: its a dark, greyish leather, thats right. if you see the original shield on 3dsmax it really looks like leather.
when i find time i'll redo the shield with other leather and darker knob.

but for now i'll stick with things still undone

and concerning opium
119027

as you can see it comes in both colours.
red and white

Shqype

Mar 09, 2006, 07:13 AM

Notarzt, calling you beautiful is an understatement... you are gorgeous!

Excellent, excellent work. Me and you should create our own mod one day because we both work lightning fast :p

By the way, who did you use for Teuta? These pictures seem Lord of the Rings-ish to me...

woodelf

Mar 09, 2006, 07:21 AM

Excellent, excellent work. Me and you should create our own mod one day because we both work lightning fast :p

Don't leave me out of your lightning mod!

Gladi

Mar 09, 2006, 07:40 AM

Bright day
Concerning 1,4:

played Mycenae, epic noble. Hoplites iRL were Iron age troops... seems bit wrong to me to include them so early.

Nice touch that on current map first otpimal city you get to settle is is in actual location of Tyrins AFAIk :goodjob:, alas I got uphanded by Illiryans- 1st war. I captured the Illyrian "Tyrins" and founded city in Thessaloniki area. More cities followed in danube delta and Crete. City maintaince was rearing its ugly head now but I was afraid of being shoe-shorned by rivals. My western expedition found that sicillian peninsula :( was occupied by Romans. War with Rome, Sicilly eludes capture, though city is completely besieged. Founded city of RL Tarrentum (sp?). Pillaging of Italian countryside staves off imminent collapse. Peace after witnessing massing of Illyrians. Thinking about raid on Lydian, Kressos countryside is rich- ripe for our some strife. END oF SESSION

Bigger map! :cry:

Notarzt

Mar 09, 2006, 08:12 AM

Excellent, excellent work. Me and you should create our own mod one day because we both work lightning fast :p

okay. thats only because i just completed my degree and don't have a job yet. As soon as I have one, lightning speed will most likely be reduced to something near zero.

By the way, who did you use for Teuta? These pictures seem Lord of the Rings-ish to me...

Half of the pictures are from "Troy", the version with Brad Pitt, as may rulers appear in the legend about Troy. Teuta's picture is one of them. But I don't remember the exact role. Probably Achilles' mother. Hm. Really don't know :)

Notarzt

Mar 09, 2006, 08:16 AM

Trebuchet next? :p

More likely a ram. Trebuchet would be more medieval.
And if I find out how, the composite archer will get a recurve bow.

But i also should work on different javelineer/armoured javelineer
different swordsman/infantry/armoured infantry
different horse archer/heavy horse archer/mounted javelineer
different elephant/war elephant
reskin pikeman as he looks too much medieval
many, many unique units
3D-heads need to be designed and skinned
more custom resources and terrain features

*sigh* oh man, thats a long list
and i already got headache from sitting in front of my monitor for about
12-14 hours a day

woodelf

Mar 09, 2006, 08:21 AM

More likely a ram. Trebuchet would be more medieval.

Ooh, a ram sounds boss. You're spoiling us! Don't get a job too soon. :p

Notarzt

Mar 09, 2006, 08:43 AM

Don't get a job too soon. :p

I got a job interview tomorrow. Please wish me all the best. Even if that means a little less engagement concerning TAM. A model-designer with no money to buy some food and rent a flat and run a computer is not a good model-designer. :)

immanuel

Mar 09, 2006, 08:43 AM

woodelf

Mar 09, 2006, 08:59 AM

Re: the poppy color, I can say from first hand experience in Afghanistan that the white flowers (more like pink, actually) are the good ones. Good if you like society-destroying narcotics, that is. The red ones are wild and aren't cultivated for opium.

Sounds like the TAM crew need to decide why they want poppies! Thanks for the info.

Notarzt

Mar 09, 2006, 10:18 AM

Re: the poppy color, I can say from first hand experience in Afghanistan that the white flowers (more like pink, actually) are the good ones. Good if you like society-destroying narcotics, that is. The red ones are wild and aren't cultivated for opium.

Seems as if I had to make different models for improved and unimproved opium. The wild one red, the cultivated white.
But that would be a bit confusing I think.

Notarzt

Mar 09, 2006, 12:17 PM

I didn't have the time to implement it into [civ4], but
I still wanted to show you some pictures of
my new

BATTERING RAM

The design is simple, but for purpose.
Hope you like it.

119056

(Pictures are renders of 3dsmax. Might differ slightly in [civ4])

woodelf

Mar 09, 2006, 12:24 PM

Simple and gorgeous. :goodjob:

BenGee171

Mar 09, 2006, 01:43 PM

NOTARZT you are GREAT!!! I don't know how a guy like you and me could do such stuff. awesome. terrible. Could it be that you didn't knew how to produce well skinned units a few days ago?? now you are makeing 3D models of anything you want to. yeah ... i think you need a software concern who will help you getting more and more skill! you are talented no doubt!

What i realy like is the Titlescreen!! AWESOME!!
and The Sound when i hear that wardrums i want to go to waaaaar in spearman formations . . . . if you know what i mean. AWESOME!!
that sound isn't from the orginal game or?

Yeah i was talking about the sound of Teuta (Illyiran) - you get when you open the diplomatic window to her... Whos great Idea was it to include this sound?? Awesome!! That sound is realy ancient warish.

I played my game with phoenicia further. I decided to build up and big Army as i got catapults and place it on three points at the boarder to hamurabi (in those situations you should hear the Music of Illyrian civi). With catapults and enough Troops it was just a question of time till the first city fall in my hands. I diceded to rest and defend the city. Another City of him was captured by cultur. I almost put troops at the Citygates but did not attack cause of the population of only one. it was a small dessert city.
After that Kürus and his Lydian Civilization declared War at me. Now my Army was strong enough to Hold back many Troops of him and i also secured my Mamor. He attacked in much Waves. But i got Iron and Iron Smiths and my capital is produceing military units faster cause of the national wonder i got in it. infrantary only takes on round. i used one of my phoenician trerime as a farry to the city Lydia attacked. So from one to the next turn i got a fresh produced and high developed Soldier in my City to defend his waves.
There the session stoped.

Next Session i will attack Lydia cause its army is now week. so much Lydian soilders lost their lives at the walls of my City. Their Ionian Hoplites even cant do something about my well balanced army. I will produce more infrantery and catapults to conquer his land. Then no more closed boarder could hold me back of conquering greek and be the mediteranean power of the east.

Carthage and Iberia got too big empires. Since i am in war my science is not as good as before. I was the first Civi in the points. Now they are miles away from me, cause i builded armys not Cityimprovements.

I realy like the sound of the Illyrian Civi.GREAT!

Next Point: - The Map
I think it is realy nice for a Strategic counquer the mediteranean sea and build a empire game. Also it realy fits, cause i got enough hammers, enough food, enough gold, enough sience.

So you have to conquer other Lands to get a bigger Empire.
If there would be a bigger map maybe technologys would appear too early in game progress cause you could build much more citys.
Or it would be laggy on some pc's.
I also think the map is nice much resource, really good balanced.
Eaven there is not too much Arabia or Sahara.

Surely Carthage and Iberia got too much Room to settle. What about includeing a Mauretanian Civi and another Civi which neads Room in Spain. Maybe you could get some idieas if you play this one:
http://www.the-underdogs.org/game.php?id=186
Its an old DosGame: Centurio - Defender of Rome
Included Province every Province got their Owen Civilization so you could get some ideas from it.

I had started painting a Map 140 x 71 (includeing britania)
I think maybee it is too huge. (ship would need more movement)
Phase of Settleing and contacting other civilizations would take longer.
Here is a GIF, so you know wich Area i tooked. its already in resolution 140 x 71.

thamis

Mar 09, 2006, 01:45 PM

I got a job interview tomorrow. Please wish me all the best. Even if that means a little less engagement concerning TAM. A model-designer with no money to buy some food and rent a flat and run a computer is not a good model-designer. :)

Alles Gute!

BenGee171

Mar 09, 2006, 02:46 PM

Sorry, that i post again.
I want to Know what size should the map have i want to paint.

The Orginal map is: 80x37
My map is: 140x71

that you see the difference in a picture i made a Red Rectangel which has the size of the Orginal TAM map.

My map would be nearly twice the size of the orginal TAM map.
That means the way from point A to point B would take nearly the double number of turns.

Also it could be that there will be preformance problems with 18 Civis on it.

I want to make it a bit smaller.
But please tell me your opinion.
:confused: What size should the map have??:confused:

I just want to paint i don't want to dictate on what map you have to play.
its not my mod its yours!!
And I want to make a bigger map espacialy for your mod, Thamis. so please tell me whats on your mind.

Mr.Earl

Mar 09, 2006, 02:59 PM

woodelf

Mar 09, 2006, 03:06 PM

Instead of replying to the above post I'll simply say that this mod is awesome and I know it's not done. ;) I have no idea what people expect from the modding community..... Most likely he thinks that the Sphinx needs a lot of work because it's missing a nose. :D

BenGee171

Mar 09, 2006, 03:11 PM

There are allready new Leaderheads, Notarzt presented on the page before (46) the first post. So he allready cared about this. Thank you Notarzt you are working hard for this mod and i know it is a lot of work for hours and hours to do all that things you did for TAM in the last few days.

And Mr.Earl it is allready a far progress of programming, its allready very good playable, better than Greek World.

And If, I said if, Notarzt likes to work on 3D Modells for new Buildings and they are looking as good as his units it will be a great modification for and expansion of CIV4!!

Edit: Sorry i forgot about the others who spend hours and hours on writeing XML's... and doing that other stuff which belongs to makeing a mod. I realy want to say Thank You! not one day to early even if the mod is not final.

Nadin Bytefelt

Mar 09, 2006, 03:20 PM

Hi
nace work and mod.thnks.

The next map will have ivory? this dont have... ist not a big problem i make whit WB ivory.
I play Carthage , no ivory no UU...

have a good day

Laurino

Mar 09, 2006, 03:24 PM

We will need 3 map sized:

small: 80/40
medium: 120/60
large: 180/90

now these are aproximation numbers...
All these maps will need to have at least the same number of each ressources that there are civs, so that there is a way for everyone to trade for something that is not in their reach from the start. As for the new ressources, they have to be placed by hand with the worldbuilder, unless someone "rewrites" the BMP->WBS conv.;)

Ok have a nice day!

thamis

Mar 09, 2006, 03:38 PM

We're probably going to include this map into the mod:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=154263

Please check if you think your map will be much better.

We rather need a map that also includes all the area east of the Caspian Sea. Can you do that?

thamis

Mar 09, 2006, 03:42 PM

woodelf

Mar 09, 2006, 03:49 PM

Yeah, it doesn't say Completed Modpacks anymore either......

thamis

Mar 09, 2006, 03:50 PM

Hey woodelf, I noticed he posted some weird stuff in your mod thread too...

woodelf

Mar 09, 2006, 03:55 PM

I know. :( People like that make it very hard to feel wuved. ;) I don't think anyone, unless they've modded, knows how much time goes into this. Time and heart... Thankfully 99% of the CFC appreciates modders.

thamis

Mar 09, 2006, 03:59 PM

Hey all, we got an MP test game for the next version going up in about 30 minutes. Anyone wanna join?

Laurino

Mar 09, 2006, 04:33 PM

The title says it all...;)
As soon as Thamis links it to the first post, you'll have it too!!!

Mr. Bojangles

Mar 09, 2006, 04:36 PM

uhhhhhh.............

are biremes supposed to look like that? :confused:

thamis

Mar 09, 2006, 04:39 PM

No, will be fixed with v1.5!

Spirit_Viriato

Mar 09, 2006, 04:40 PM

Nozart : Viriato seems a gay guy. An another thing, he was a "guerrilla man" and didn't wear armour or simply a very light armour. Spain and Portugal are countries with a lot of mountains, in fact Iberia is like a continent ( a lot of cold in the north, a lot of hot in the south, desert, green field, mountains,coast, "spanish meseta), but in general mountains are the most common element. This thing do that the character of the ancient spanish-portugal people ( and in the interior like Leon, Galicia, Asturias,Basque Country...zones yet) were more rude.

http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/8204/viriato6qj.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/5740/viriato25xs.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

woodelf

Mar 09, 2006, 04:48 PM

The title says it all...;)
As soon as Thamis links it to the first post, you'll have it too!!!

:woohoo: Great news.

Shqype

Mar 09, 2006, 04:49 PM

No, DON'T RELEASE v1.5 YET! There are still changes I've got to make!!!

Nice touch that on current map first otpimal city you get to settle is is in actual location of Tyrins AFAIk , alas I got uphanded by Illiryans- 1st war. I captured the Illyrian "Tyrins" and founded city in Thessaloniki area.
So you built Tyrins and the Illyrians captured it? Interesting.

In my games I've seen both possibilities: Either the Greeks move up and found a city close to Illyria, under Skodra, or the the Illyrians move down and found Dyrrahu as their second city (which is pretty accurate as Durres on that map).

Yeah i was talking about the sound of Teuta (Illyiran) - you get when you open the diplomatic window to her... Whos great Idea was it to include this sound?? Awesome!! That sound is realy ancient warish.
I realy like the sound of the Illyrian Civi.GREAT!
Bengee171, the Illyrian Diplomatic Music for Teuta is played with an Albanian instrument called the lahuta. It was actually use by the Illyrians from before Roman times, but it is still used today in the mountains of northern Albania. It is one of the oldest instruments in the world!

If you go to http://www.illyriaentertainment.com/ there will be a link to a docutrailer on the Albanian National Hero, Gjergj Kastrioti. He protected Catholic Western Europe from the Ottoman Empire for a quarter of a century, and continuously defeated the most powerful army of the world in doing so. His story will finally be told.

Watch the trailer and you will see where my Lahuta music for the Illyrians comes from: you can actually see the priest playing the instrument, so you'll get an idea of how it looks and the way it is played.

Because all copyrights of that clip belong to Illyria Entertainment Group, the music will have to be changed sooner or later; but, do not despair! I have a friend that knows how to play the lahute a little bit, and he also has the tupana (Albanian drums) used in that clip, so he will provide us with some nice music to take its place :)

Spirit_Viriato

Mar 09, 2006, 04:59 PM

If you go to http://www.illyriaentertainment.com/ there will be a link to a docutrailer on the Albanian National Hero, Gjergj Kastrioti. He protected Catholic Western Europe from the Ottoman Empire for a quarter of a century, and continuously defeated the most powerful army of the world in doing so. His story will finally be told.

Mmm, I study and read in some books that the last battle against ottoman empire was the "Lepanto Battle"http://9.1911encyclopedia.org/L/LE/LEPANTO_BATTLE_OF.htm
http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/history/A0829458.html

This battle was lead by the spaniards and in a minor percentage by venetians. In this Battle "Miguel de Cervantes" lost his arm. With the victory of the christian forces, the muslims nevermore go against europe and concentrate this forces in Asia.

Your warrior king were a vasall of our ****-king ( Viva la República)

One of his most powerful and consistent supporters was Alfonso the Magnanimous, the king of Aragon and Naples, who decided to take Skanderbeg under his protection as a vassal in 1451, shortly after the latter had scored his second victory against Murad II. In addition to financial assistance, the King of Naples supplied the Albanian leader with troops, military equipment, and sanctuary for himself and his family if such a need should arise. As an active defender of the Christian cause in the Balkans, Skanderbeg was also closely involved with the politics of four Popes [citation needed], including Pope Pius II.

Shqype

Mar 09, 2006, 06:14 PM

His rebellion was from 1443 - 1468 AD. It was a 25 year long struggle.

King Alfonso of Naples was a supporter of Gjergj Kastrioti's, and they were good friends. When the King Alfonso died, Gjergj Kastrioti even brought his army into Italy to protect it from the French Anjou family which tried to take control of it. He did this to honor the memory of his dead friend by saving the land from attack.

He was "officially" declared a vassal of King Alfonso because they were friends, and he was promised a safe refuge in Italy should the need arise. But, he never used it; and he wasn't subservient to anyone, let alone King Alfonso, as the term "vassal" implies. It was more of a title of respect and friendship between the two than anything of real value. It was really used as a political tool.

Gjergj Kastrioti even tried to become a "vassal" to the Venetians because he knew that in doing so, they would have to take up his struggle against the Ottoman Empire onto their shoulders as well. They refused, and operated with both sides, sometimes the Turks and sometimes the Albanians, depending on whichever side profitted them most.

On to TAM:

I have a few map changes I've made and now I'll implement some others. Hopefully v1.5 should come pretty soon :)

KingofTrees

Mar 09, 2006, 07:20 PM

:mad:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Earl
No Offense but I think this mod needs alot of work. All of the leaders look like some wierd bald guy, get some real pictures of these people, until then, I'm definitely sticking with Greek World!

This is my first post in any forum.I Was a big fan of TAM for Civ 3 and the biggest reason I bought 4 was to again Conquer the ancient world.I just needed to let u guys know you are doing a hell of a job and keep up the good work!:D :D

geebo

Mar 09, 2006, 07:25 PM

whats with the negative criticism?...these people work hard.... Hats of to the TAM Moders and all the moders... Without you I wouldn't even play CIV IV!....

Shqype

Mar 09, 2006, 07:43 PM

Wow, that's a powerful statement!

I just joined the TAM crew recently, so I give credit to the whole team that has been working on up to this point. It really is a fun mod, and right now, with the direction it's headed, it will be alot more fun :D

I'm working on tweaking and adding a few things, so probably by Friday I should be done and able to release this to the mod team to release to the public.

Sorry for not being done tonight, Benoit, but hopefully you will agree that it is worth the wait ;)

geebo

Mar 09, 2006, 07:58 PM

powerful but true, the vanilla version just doesn't cut it for me... but yea the wait is deff worth it....again... grazie to all.....

KingofTrees

Mar 09, 2006, 08:53 PM

:) Again I want to thank u guys for all the hard work and again if it was not for TAM I'D be playing something else:goodjob:

Pckering

Mar 09, 2006, 09:47 PM

No Offense but I think this mod needs alot of work. :thumbdown All of the leaders look like some wierd bald guy, get some real pictures of these people, until then, I'm definitely sticking with Greek World!

Ignorance is bliss ain't it? I fell on the floor laughing when I read that post. That wierd bald guy. ROFL, I'll stick with Greek world. LOLOLOLOL! its rather funny isn't it? It's just so ignorant I can't even be mad at the guy.

Loving the mod, can't wait for 1.5

Oh yeah.. Convinced my wife to stay after all.. Had to promise to go to Civ anonymous. You know 90 meetings in ninety days etc, change my playgrounds etc. I think I can fake it.. LOL

Leptomeninges

Mar 09, 2006, 10:36 PM

Just a couple thoughts I thought I'd share:

First of all, it goes without saying that we are not professional game creators. We have careers and families. When I get home in the evening, I do my work for TAM (the civilopedia entries) for two reasons. First of all, I enjoy it. It takes some work to research the historical basis for many of the units/leaders/etc and I learn a few things. Secondly, I do it because I remember how great TAM was for Civ 3 and I think we all believe that it can be even better in Civ 4.

Right now there is a *huge* amount of work going into TAM. You see some of that on the surface as new versions are released, but much of it is out of your view. I just mention that to give people an idea that the final TAM will be painstakingly crafted and balanced.

Lastly, we really do need feedback. That is the whole point of releasing an unfinished product. But condemning the mod for being unfinished is less helpful to us than specific feedback regarding gameplay, fun, and balance. We know it isn't finished ;) It won't be for a while. Help us make it better. :)

Thanks to everyone participating in the effort by giving us feedback and moral support!