Hi everyone.

Since I started playing Civ IV, I don't know how many times I've had to stop what I'm doing and hunt for what I'm looking for.

"What's that unit best for? How do I best counter that Horse Archer coming at my city? What do I need to research to get this building/unit? etc, etc, etc."

I'm sure many of you have been doing the same thing. Sure, there's the Civilopedia, but frankly I'm finding it more and more un-helpful. Why can't they make it searchable? :mad: It's all based on icons, most of which I still don't immediately recognize! :cry:

So, I put together a bunch of charts that I've found useful. I originally posted these charts in a thread in the main Strategy & Tips section, but someone suggested I post it here, so here I am.

I've spent countless hours poring over the XML files and online information and have found quite a bit of information to fix or add.

I created the charts in Excel. They don't look pretty on screen, but they're set up to print out. It prints out to 21 pages. I also included a set of the charts in Word format for easier transfer to other formats (pdf, open office, etc. - I don't have the ability to do that, but I know there are those that do here.). The tech tree flow chart is what I use the most, but unfortunately, it won't transfer over to Word easily - sorry.

I hope you find it useful - I know I do. And if anyone finds any errors, please let me know!

kroYM

EDIT: Future versions will replace the older file.

Latest version: v2.08 (Includes Warlords v2.08 patch changes):

Download here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=2499

I completely agree that Civ4's Civilopedia is terrible. That said, upon first glance, I think these charts will come in handy. Thanks for all that effort!

Hey man.. You are a god send :)

Thanks alot, these will come in useful

Hexed

Thanks man, this looks very helpful...for Civ at least.

You've probably just wasted the first hour or so of my workday, though.

Thanks man, this looks very helpful...for Civ at least.

You've probably just wasted the first hour or so of my workday, though.

Where do you think I put all of this together - at home, when I could be playing?!! :lol: :D :mischief:

Great reference, thanks!

Chart of techs is more confusing, than in-game. Some of descriptions in civics are just your opinion, units should have more categories, otherwise it is OK.

Thanks Kroym, great charts. I will find them very useful. I was thinking I need to do something like this myself, but now I have no need :)

@KROYM

Thanks dude, good effort !!

Thanks. Really usefull

Superb reference tool! Thanks - it must have taken a lot of work! It's not as pretty as the Civ III pdf set but I'll do the job better for being more compact.

Oh and I agree about the Civilopedia. The icons aren't helpful, there's less cross linking and whilst mouse-over is a superb system, it's difficult when you're forced to choose a free/traded tech and can't see the tree.

edit: Those interested in this will probably also want a list of the keyboard shortcuts, to be found here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=138984).

Chart of techs is more confusing, than in-game. Some of descriptions in civics are just your opinion, units should have more categories, otherwise it is OK.

It was never my intention to incorporate opinion - I want only the facts and figures of the units, buildings, civics, etc. in the game (that's what a reference document is (or should be!)).

I would very much appreciate any input as to any inaccuracies and how to make it more readable & accessible ("chart of techs is more confusing, than in-game") - I'd like to fix that! How is it confusing and do you have any suggestions as to how to fix it?

"units should have more categories" - what exactly do you mean by that? How can I make it better?

Bouchehog,

Glad you like it - it was a good bit of work, but very worth it for me, especially when I'm helping fellow civvers like you! :)

Your edit about the keyboard shortcuts made me ask why I didn't include that in my docs - I think I'll do that.

kroYM

What we need is a good mod of the 'pedia. Unfortunatly I don't have the know how. Anybody? We need to make it easier to use and include more information such a referecne charts or strategies honed from the forums :)

loveandpolitics:

Great idea! I'm not too up on the modding side of things, but I've got a great start on collecting necessary data...

Anyone want to tackle this?

kroYM

Hi KroYM,

First I want to thank you for your work in putting all this info together. I looked at it for a while, and found I was missing some info in the technology flowchart.

I hope you don't mind me taking the liberty to edit this sheet :mischief: and putting in color lines for the required techs as I find them very hard to find sometimes. I just started putting in the lines, and it clearly shows why this is difficult to spot somethimes

I'll post it here and it's up to you to decide if you want to use it in your reference docs.

EDIT: Removed intermediate version. Recent version will be maintained in first post!

I hope you don't mind me taking the liberty to edit this sheet :mischief: and putting in color lines for the required techs as I find them very hard to find sometimes. I just started putting in the lines, and it clearly shows why this is difficult to spot somethimes

I'll post it here and it's up to you to decide if you want to use it in your reference docs.

I don't mind your tweaks/changes/suggestions/additions/subtractions at all! :D Frankly I've been short on time lately.

I had one heck of a time working on the tech flow chart. That's not an easy setup to work with, but I don't think there's much that can be done about it save for eliminating some of the techs all together just to make the chart easier to read! :eek:

I'll be looking forward to your post.

Thanks,

kroYM

I'll be looking forward to your post.



It's allready there :cool: (see attachment previous post)

I had one heck of a time working on the tech flow chart. That's not an easy setup to work with, but I don't think there's much that can be done about it save for eliminating some of the techs all together just to make the chart easier to read!

I didn't think it would be that much work, so I started one tech at a time. Before I knew several hours had passed, adjusting stuff to just fit everything together and try not to get it too cluttered.

I'll see if I can make some more improvements on the chart.

Now you have some idea what I went through putting it together...

It's a lot of work, obviously. Originally each tech box just had the tech name and I attempted connecting all techs and their requirements that way, but it just got to be too cluttered. That's when I went with including the tech's requirements and benefits in each box. Less cluttered and it goes well with black & white printing.

Your use of dotted colored lines helps make it more readable than my initial tries.

I've got a sheet to add (keyboard shortcuts) and some minor changes to data that I've been putting off adding to the zip file. I'll wait until you think you're finished until I replace the original with this version in my original post.

Thanks for the help, Michelangelo! :goodjob:

kroYM

kroym this tool is very useful and I literally use it all the time (the excel version)... its usually open when I play civ. One small modification I've made to it is in the wonders tab, to split out the bonus production resources (marble, stone, copper etc.) and the type of great person produced, so I can set up an excel autofilter on these columns. Thus I can quickly filter the wonder list by say, which ones I can build more quickly with stone, or which ones generate great engineers, etc.

The only other place I think this type of filtering would be useful would be the civilisation characteristics, it would be nice to be able to autofilter say all the aggresive or all the expansive or whatever leaders. Would require a bit of reorganising of the format of the sheet though, if I get round to doing it I'll post it up.

Great, great tool.

Thanks for the complements, friskymike.

Any changes, additions you make, please feel free to post and I'll integrate into the original post's file. As you can see, Michalangelo is working on some changes as well, so it looks like there'll be a major revision coming up...

Thanks for you help and input!

kroYM

Done, added a changelog to the frontpage:

v1.0 30-Nov-05 kroym creates
v1.1 22-Dec-05 friskymike adds autofilter to Civ Characteristic, Buildings & Wonders, fix some hyperlinks, add Hotkeys & Combat Calculator placeholders

I didn't include the updated tech chart, just made the changes above.

(link removed - old version)

Mine's also done, please chech your PM for it.

@friskymike,

I tried opening your file, but it gave a lot of error's saying data was lost. The tech flow chart is empty and I can't see the sorting buttons you added.

Maybe version problem? (I use Excel 2003)

Looks good, friskymike.

A question, though: How do you create the "dropdown" feature in the cells? I've seen this before, but never really dug around to find out how to do it.

As soon as we get Michelangelo's work done, we can put it all together. I won't be able to get to it until at least tomorrow - and if not tomorrow, with Christmas this weekend, then it won't be until early next week.

So, if either of you feels the urge, you're perfectly welcome to put it all together.

One thing I'd like to bring up: One of my goals in creating this was to make the pages look good printed (hence my initial hesitance in using colors - but if we stay away from light colors (yellow, pink, etc.) that won't be a problem). One of the sheet, friskymike, got cut off in the print preview. With the changes, can we still get the columns and rows on successive pages to show?

Thanks

kroYM

Edit: This should be it.
Edit: Attachment removed (old version)

A question, though: How do you create the "dropdown" feature in the cells? I've seen this before, but never really dug around to find out how to do it.
Select the area you want then Data->Filter->Autofilter. Drop down will be added to the top row of your selection.

So, if either of you feels the urge, you're perfectly welcome to put it all together.
Done - got my work xmas party in a couple of hours hence doing this rather than work :D

With the changes, can we still get the columns and rows on successive pages to show?
Fixed for the sheets I modified (title page, civ characteristic, buildings, wonders). I selected the print area then used File->Print Area->Set Print Area, then from File->Page Setup chose either landscape or portrait and used the "fit to" option to force the print to either one or two pages tall. Prints and print previews work fine now.

I've attached a zip with both Excel 2000 (what I'm using) and Excel 5.0/95 version spreadsheets. Not sure why it didn't work for Michelangelo but you obviously didn't have any problems. I've added his improved tech chart and attached some screenshots.

Changelog
v1.0 30-Nov-05 kroym creates
v1.1 22-Dec-05 friskymike adds autofilter to Civ Characteristic, Buildings & Wonders, fix some hyperlinks, add Hotkeys & Combat Calculator placeholders, fixed print areas
v1.2 22-Dec-05 michelangelo's tech chart v2 included

To Do
Add hotkey list
Creat combat calculator?

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/civ_vi_ref_charts_v1_2_xls.zip

fyi:

I'm currently working on the hotkey page... I'll be posting it here soon.

kroYM

Guys,

I just edited my original post and replaced the original files with v1.3. I added the hotkey list. Check it out (and change it :D).

kroYM

Thank You. The most infuriating part of the game is when I have to dig through the horrible civ-pedia. Much appreciated.

I have attached a pdf of your spreadsheet, in case it is helpful to anyone.

Very impressive, kroym! Thanks!

Thank You. The most infuriating part of the game is when I have to dig through the horrible civ-pedia. Much appreciated.

I have attached a pdf of your spreadsheet, in case it is helpful to anyone.

I saw there's only one page in your PDF (CIV 1.09), so I created a new one.

Very nice! Thanks!

What version of Civ 4 is this spreadsheet for (i.e. is it updated for the newest version, 1.52)?

@fightcancer,

This version is still for 1.09. I noticed there are some changes with the latest patch. These will probably be included some time soon

Please note, version 1.4 has been posted in my original post #1. Changes include improving the aesthetics of the charts, some sorting capability, and data has been updated to conform to Civ IV v1.52.

I will be working on a set of charts that is more conducive to black & white printing. That is my personal preference, but many of the suggestions I've gotten have directed the charts toward a colored/sorting/on-screen reference.

Stay tuned for more changes - it's hardly done!! :)

kroYM

Thanks alot. Very nice charts to have available when you play.

Noticed in Civcs spreadsheet that Environmentalism is set to High Upkeep Cost. With v 1.52 it's changed to Medium

Edit: ...and required tech is now changed to Medicine

Keep up the nice work:goodjob:

anyone think they can transmit this data into possibly a word file so i can open it as i do not have excell and adobe is screwing up everytime i load it.

thanks

@Juballs2001

Unfortunately these pages cannot easily be converted to Word without losing much formatting. :sad: What I did is, created a PDF (CIV 1.52) of the latest version (1.4). I also incorporated the remark from MrDrizzt.

I hope you can use it now :)

Great stuff; I've got the official guide which covers everything but lacks the keyboard shortcuts. Thanks for completing it.

Please note, version 1.4 has been posted in my original post #1. Changes include improving the aesthetics of the charts, some sorting capability, and data has been updated to conform to Civ IV v1.52.
NITPICK: I believe the civic Environmentalism was changed to have a medium upkeep in cIV version 1.52. The charts v1.4 still has it listed as high upkeep.

Thanks for the awesome charts. I really like the color changes in v1.4 as it's much more readable on-screen.

One correction I noticed:
some care must be made to distinguish between gold and commerce.
One place I noticed it is all the holy shrines, spiral minaret maybe etc.. in the wonders tab.
Great job though

Thanks for these great charts, they helped me save a lot of time looking through the civiliopedia. Very usefull. Thanks for the effort, it's highly appreciated.

First post. w00t! :)

These charts are incredible if for the technology base cost reference alone. Great work!

:sad: :sad: I was so upset when I read that your spreadsheets were in microsoft excel. I constantly make spreadsheets using microsoft spreadsheets and I know how much work and effort goes into a simple one.

However I have good news, for those of you who don't have excel you can do a google search for .xls and it will give you a link to an excel reader! You can't make your own spreadsheets but you can look at the wonderful work that Kroym has done on his. You can even print them out!

Here is the link if you can't find it, you will probably have to cut and paste it to get it to work.

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=c8378bf4-996c-4569-b547-75edbd03aaf0&displaylang=EN

Awesome work - helps a heap!!

Hi,

As Kroym seems to be out of town, i've changed the upkeep for environmentalism in this intermediate version.
I've also added the functionality of always having the correct formatting when sorting. It requires a small custum VBA-function, so it requires enabling macro's at startup. I hope this won't be a problem.
Please take a look.

Civ_IV_Reference_Charts_v1.41.zip (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/Civ_IV_Reference_Charts_v1.41.zip)

and the PDF-version

Great work!

Check out the spreadsheet here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=3562176&postcount=8), it shows the differences btw. the difficulty levels (as presented in CIV4HandicapInfo.xml). It may or may not be useful to include in the reference charts, though it will require some formatting first. Feel free to do so.

On the "Civilization Characteristics" sheet, for ease of viewing, I move the "Trait 1" and "Trait 2" columns to columns H and I, respectively.

Also, the Space Elevator wonder does not mention the requirement to build within certain latitudes.

Great work folks. This chart is invaluable. I have it on a laptop sitting on a chair next to my desk while I play!:goodjob:

Greetings, all.

I've made some minor updates to Michaelangelo's v1.41 of the Reference Charts, and with kroym's blessing I'm posting them here.

The updates are pretty minor (all formatting, no content changes), but they should fix some issues with printing the charts to a hardcopy, if you're into that sort of thing.

Changes in v1.42:
Fixed pagination & zooming for better offline viewing
Rotated a couple sheets to landscape view
Added sheet title to page header on each page
Rearranged a couple diagrams for better page layout


The new XLS file is attached to this message. Enjoy!

Several people have commented about the fact they don't have Excel so can't use these sheets.

OpenOffice appears to read them just fine (though I've always disabled the macros). I say "appears to" because I don't have excel to compare the difference. If someone has both OpenOffice and Microsoft Office installed, I'd be interested to know if I'm missing anything.

OpenOffice is free and runs on most platforms (Windows, Solaris and Linux - which I assume means it can work on a recent Mac too).

Version 2 was released toward end of last year and seems very solid.

Main features include a database, word processor, spread sheet and presentation app. All but the database are able to read their Microsoft counterparts.

http://www.openoffice.org/

The Excel equivelant in OpenOffice is Calc (http://www.openoffice.org/product/calc.html)

Andy

PS. Just to prove the point, I've used OpenOffice to prepare a PDF of the keyboard shortcuts (http://www.andysanders.co.uk/downloads/CivIV-Keyboard-Shortcuts.zip) from v1.4 of kroyms Excel spread sheet. ;)

Another nice addition, IMO, would be a listing of the output from specialists and super-specialists.

I've only just come across this file - great work, kroym, thanks. :goodjob:

I do have a suggestion for the Resource Yield by Improvement page, though - building a railroad on a tile with a mine or lumbermill adds one extra hammer to production. I think this improvement bonus should be added to your table.

Hope this suggestion helps.

Awesome Work

Thanks!

These charts are awesome!

the only thing I'd request is a "printable version". But that's just because I'm lazy. Maybe I should open my notebook and have that next to my gaming PC. haha that'd be a great idea.

ok. no cons from me.

Awesome work

These charts are awesome!

the only thing I'd request is a "printable version". But that's just because I'm lazy. Maybe I should open my notebook and have that next to my gaming PC. haha that'd be a great idea.

ok. no cons from me.

Awesome work

You can find a PDF version (a couple of posts up, post from me) and a printer friendly Xcel version from chewtoy.

thanks for the charts its good stuff
i might print it out even (might cuz i don't appreciate wasting paper or else i definitely would)

Pretty good stuff in there, very useful. :goodjob:

Wow on a helpfulness to new player's scale these charts rate a 25 on a 10 point scale!
Great job and many many thanks for the great work on making these :goodjob:

thank you thank you thank you. . .

;)
C

Civ IV Newbie,

Played Civ II for a really long long long time. . .

30/10 from me.:goodjob: Also do you think there could be a some sorting on the civics list? I manedged (sp?) to get them all in 1 list all next to each other but I can't get excel to do multiple colum sorts, only one at a time. thanks. Heres the version that I was working on: (yes i know that it was made from v1.41 and not v1.42 but I tried it and it didn't work for me so sorry)

/cries for happiness

/cries for happiness

i added promotion's icons.
i think can be easier to identify promotions.

118003

Good addition Arl85. Welcome to the team.

I noticed though that the technology chart is somewhat completely screwed up. Did you do something on this page, or does it allways show like this on your system.

strange,I see it perfectly.Maybe the problem is I use OpenOffice.So I post in zip file also OpenOffice version;I just edited the zip file.

bye

I don't have open office. In the attached picture you can see that the arrows are screwed up.

If you can't solve this, I'll add your unit promotion charts to the last working version for me and post it. Won't be immediate though, not enough time at the moment.

Well,i think the problem is saving OpenOffice file to Microsoft Office format. I see it perfectly because i see it with OO. I've no idea about solving this problem.
If someone has OO, i'd like to know how they see the file.
however, i have no problem if you include promotion charts in your file.
bye

On the wonders tab, Angkor Wat should be obsoleted by comPUTERS not comPASS.

In the keyboard shortcuts I am missing Alt-S from 1.52 Patch:
"- ALT-S now allows you to place signs"

I tweaked the unit upgrades sheet a little for my personal use. I decided to share it here in case anyone else finds it useful. This chart is essential for me because the in-game help doesn't tell the whole story as far as upgrading. It will only display the next tier of technology that a unit can update to. It doesn't tell you that a warrior can technically upgrade to a mechanized infantry, a fact I wasn't aware of before seeing the original chart.

I transposed the columns and rows since it was easier for me to see the unit upgrading from on the left and as rows. I also grouped them together by unit category as they appear in the game. When doing promotions and analyzing bonuses, I find it convenient to have a list this way. Most of the categories are straight forward, but some are a little confusing, especially for beginners.

On the top there's a drop-down list where you can select game speed. All the upgrade costs will change accordingly. The sheet manually calculates the upgrade cost from the production values, making it easy to maintain if balance issues are forthcoming in future patches.

I have checked the epic values are correct along with all the upgrades listed as being possible. I'm not totally convinced that I got all the possible upgrades though, so if you see anything missing, let me know.

Enjoy.

New in Ver 2:
1. Added Praetorian and Jaguar units since production values (and therefore upgrade costs) are different than their normal counterpart - swordsman.
2. Updated production values with respect to game speed. Since 1.61, the modifiers for quick, epic and marathon have changed.
3. Updated unit cost formulas to reflect how upgrade cost calculations changed in 1.61.

Civ IV Unit Upgrades Ver 1.zip removed after 56 views, version obsolete.

Hi,

First of all I want to thank all contributors that have posted improvements and corrections on the data in these files. :goodjob: I was finally able to do some work on this again and I have combined all the input you all submitted into one new version. If I missed something, please let me know.

As this is probably the last version before the new patch, I made a version number jump and called it v1.52 (How did I ever get to that number:D )

So have fun and please keep making suggestions and improvements.

@Kroym, could you please update the first post with the new version.

CHANGES, v1.52 (from v1.41)
Page headers, provided by chewtoy
Added Icon to promotions chart provided by arl85
Ankor Wat obsolotes with computer, reported by Phooey73
Hotkey Alt-S, Place signs, reported by HolyHandGrenade
Mod factors for unit upgrade costs for difficulty level, provided by AlphaBeta
Changed layout of tech chart to correspond to ingame techchart for ease comparison
Added colorcoding to techchart
Fixed printing layout (I hope)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/PickALeader.zip

Another aide you can add to this.

oh yeah Kroym,

Thank u so much for your gift ! do u mind my hand down your chart to another website ? and im translating the chart into Chinese.

Great to see the progress in this. :goodjob:
Ozzy's forest chop grid would be pretty handy to include too.
Also, and explanation of how building/unit costs change with game speed (e.g. epic x1.5, quick x0.67 etc.), and any other info that changes with game speed.

Wow! It's been 3 1/2 months since I've been around these parts and obviously I've left my project in good hands. Actually, I guess I can't truthfully call it MY project anymore. Regretfully, my absence has mostly been due to a heavy load at college. I'm glad things are still rolling along well.

I see there has been a lot of input recommending many changes/additions/corrections. That's exactly what I envisioned. I wanted this to be a community thing more than something to call mine. I didn't post it here for just my own use.

I want to thank friskymike and Michaelangelo in particular for keeping track of things and maintaining the charts. Way to go! :goodjob: :thanx:

As of this writing there have been nearly 36,000 views in this thread. :eek: Obviously, someone out there is finding these charts useful! ;)

Keep up the great work, everyone. That's what I love about the Civ community: everyone's here for everyone else. You guys rock! :rockon:

kroYM

Hi Kroym,

Good to see you around again, and thanx for updating the first post.

Although you've obviously been busy in RL, I hope you were at least able to play some CIV.;)

I expect some more work ahead with the new patch and the Warlords expansion. I don't mind the patch being late, wouldn't have had the time to implement the changes. ;)

Although you've obviously been busy in RL, I hope you were at least able to play some CIV.;)

Well, duh! :lol: Maybe at the expense of some homework from time to time. :mischief: But don't tell my instructors that... ;)

I expect some more work ahead with the new patch and the Warlords expansion. I don't mind the patch being late, wouldn't have had the time to implement the changes. ;)

"New patch"? "Warlords expansion"? Man, I am way out of the loop. :eek: Fill me in, man!

You really been away thoroughly. :cool:

The coming (or more accurately the not coming)) of the patch is the most debated issue in the last two months.
I've got this (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=3635097&postcount=672) answer from Thamer at the end of January.

On Warlords, there's an section on the main page for it, including screenshots.

Apparently the patch is going through QA, but that's been the case for months.

@ ALL
Please do not turn this thread into a "where is the next patch" thread. Thank you.

do u mind my hand down your chart to another website ? and im translating the chart into Chinese.

You most certainly may post this elsewhere. Let me know where you put it. The translation part sounds like that'll be quite a project...

Glad you like it!

Michaelangelo,

Thanks for the update. I found the info page link for Warlords on the Civfanatics home page. Looks like there'll be quite a bit more to add when that's released. I'll definitely try to keep up with things here for that!

kroYM

I want to thank friskymike and Michaelangelo in particular for keeping track of things and maintaining the charts. Way to go! :goodjob: :thanx:
:blush: I can't take any credit at all, my post above was my first in this thread in months, what little free time I have has been spent on SGs :mischief:
All credit for the update to Michelangelo. I like the autofilters being back, I would add them to the wonders screen too so you can see which wonders you can build quick with which resource etc.

This is such a great tool, I use it at least once in every civ session. If only alt-tabbing wasn't so slow :mad:

If only alt-tabbing wasn't so slow :mad:

Or if I could have dual monitors... :cool:

Or one, with all the graphics/movies working :) on 1 monitor.

Ooo! 5th page! :goodjob:

...Gee, everything working on one monitor! What a novel idea! :)

Looks like the patch is out, its called version 1.61. :woohoo:

Also looks like you can immedeatly make good on your promise kroym, and implement the changes over easter. ;) :lol: ;)

I don't have that much civ-time over easter, but afterwards I'll be happy to work on it. Please PM progress (anyone) around that time, to avoid double duty.

I'm working on implementing the changes per the v1.61 patch.

Michaelangelo, I've PMd you with some notes & questions. {EDIT} Scratch that... see below

Once I get those ironed out, I figure by early next week (Tuesday-ish) we'll be able to post the updated charts.

kroYM

{EDIT}

Hey, everyone, I'd appreciate some input: Below is a list of the items in the v1.61 readme that I picked out to add/change in the charts. The lines in bold are what I've already updated in the charts. Somebody let me know if you think I missed anything from the readme. Once I get the questions below answered, I'll post the new Charts version. Unfortunately, I won't be able to update or play Civ IV this weekend :cry: , so if anyone can verify the new SDI cost, and other info, please let me know and I'll get that stuff in...


Kremlin now gives -33% hurry production cost...
Reduced hammer yield from forest chops to 20…
Less hammers from chops the farther away from a city...
Mathematics increases forest chop yields by +50%...
SDI cannot be built before the Manhattan Project...
Increased SDI cost...
(By how much?)
Marines and SAM Infantry now upgrade to Mech Infantry...
Free Trade: Medium Upkeep
(Referring to Free Market?)
State Property: Low Upkeep
Representation: +2 happy in X biggest cities
(Included note “dependent on map size” correct?)
Hereditary Rule: Low Upkeep
Representation: Medium Upkeep
Slavery: Low Upkeep
Nationhood: No Upkeep
Gunships now move faster over rails...
(Included note on Units page “rails increase movement rate”)
Expansive: +3 Health
Financial: No longer give production bonus for Banks
(What the heck – why not?)
Number keys perform leader head actions on Civilopedia leader screen
(Include on Keyboard Shortcuts page? If so, which keys do what?)


kroYM

Great you started working on it. :goodjob:

I've got a couple of minutes to check some stuff, Here what I've found.

No time yet to go through the readme, will do it later.


Reduced hammer yield from forest chops to 20…
I've read it too, not confirmed ingame.

SDI cannot be built before the Manhattan Project...
(By how much?)
Increased SDI cost to 1000

Free Trade: Medium Upkeep
(Referring to Free Market?) Seems that way, Free Market now medium upkeep

Representation: +2 happy in X biggest cities
(Included note “dependent on map size” correct?)
Civilopedia says: 2 happy in 5 biggest cities. Nothing on map size dependence, tested on standard size.

Well, Michaelangelo and I have updated the charts to comply with the v1.61 patch. At this point the only thing we can see that we may want to add is the note in the 1.61 readme that says the number keys perform leader head actions on the Civilopedia leader screen.

Mich. and I haven't ironed out exactly how that works, but if someone has used that feature and figured out exactly what keys do what we may add that to the keyboard shortcut chart.

Of course, any suggestions are always welcome!

We look forward to hearing from anyone with some input.

The updated charts are in my original post on page one of this thread.

kroYM

Thanks for the fast update, but something seems slipped through your fingers.

Financial: No longer give production bonus for Banks.

Regards

Good call, HolyHandGrenade!

I would've sworn I changed that, but ah well it's fixed.

However, I need someone to convert this into pdf. Michaelangelo? (Or anyone, really.) I just am unable to get one of those free converters to work on this computer.

At your service.

At your service.

:goodjob:

Thanks man!!

:worship:

Both the PDF and XLS versions are in the original post, everyone.

kroYM

In Stuporstar's post, he has very good information regarding terrain improvments.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=144029

The problem I had was the data was in images.

So I entered that data into an Excel format that I could easily pull into kroym's great work here. I am posting the spreadsheet in case you find it helpful too.

124259

Peace

Representation: +2 happy in X biggest cities
(Included note “dependent on map size” correct?)



kroYM

This IS dependent on map size: Civilopedia changes according to the map size. For Duel/Tiny - 4 biggest cities; Small/Standard - 5; Large/Huge - 6.

Great team job,

I have a small sugestion:

Add :gold:, :culture: and :science: to city building

What do you think?

@Unk, I know that post too. IMO, your way of presenting it makes it good addition to the reference files, although it's allready covered by the resource yield by improvement page. I'll try and add them to the charts, or you can do it yourself and join the team.

@kirillvn, I didn't know the civilopedia was that adaptive.:confused: I mostly play small or standard size worlds, so I wouldn't find it. :thanx:

@GABB, Do you mean the effects the building has on those three items? It's allready there in the form of the description, but it would make the sheet more of a know-at-first-glance table.

It may take some time, as time is scarcely available, but be assured, it'll be implemented (If Kroym doesn't overule me that is ;) )

[QUOTE=Michelangelo@GABB, Do you mean the effects the building has on those three items? It's allready there in the form of the description, but it would make the sheet more of a know-at-first-glance table.
[/QUOTE]
This is not my point. My suggestion is add:

Building Cost 1/2 cost w/ Culture Tech Req Other Req Efect
Culture -x-- -------- ----x---- ---x---- -------- Turn :hammers:->:culture:
Gold -x-- ----------- -------- Currency -------- Turn :hammers:->:gold:
Science -x-- ---------- --------- Alphabet -------- Turn :hammers:->:science:

I don't build this usually, but (IMO) this must be in the reference.

Hi everyone i'm new here. My name is Steve and I am a Civiloholic. OK, now i've gotten that out of the way I just want to thank you so much for those reference charts. Has anyone here bought the official players guide? Is it any good. Thanks

I am a Civ fanatic from China's largest Civilization Site:KuanKuan, And I bumped into your excellent works just several days ago. I and some of my friends strongly appreciate your charts, which we believe, after being translated into Chinese, would be a great help for our fanatic players.

We have been busily engaged in your works, and I would like to plead to you for the permission of translation and transfer of your works to our eager players.

Thank you.

BTW, our site is:bbs.kuankuan.com

I am a Civ fanatic from China's largest Civilization Site:KuanKuan, And I bumped into your excellent works just several days ago. I and some of my friends strongly appreciate your charts, which we believe, after being translated into Chinese, would be a great help for our fanatic players.

We have been busily engaged in your works, and I would like to plead to you for the permission of translation and transfer of your works to our eager players.

Thank you.

BTW, our site is:bbs.kuankuan.com

If I can speak for the starter of this reference file, I think you just go ahead. It would be nice though to list our group in the credits somewhere.

Not that we could ever find out if you did it without permission. After looking up your site it took a while before I could find anything civ-related.:lol: It was all Chinese to me.

Please notify us if you find any errors in the files so we can update them again.

I just signed up to say thank you for this nice work. I printed it and will keep it on my desk while playing..... very nice indeed. Keep the good work.

Great resource! Thanx Kroym

I just signed up to say thank you for this nice work. I printed it and will keep it on my desk while playing..... very nice indeed. Keep the good work.

first post = welcome aboard abu [party]

I've been using these charts a good while, they've been a GREAT aid, my hat off to Kroym and all others who helped.

I was doing some spreadsheet calculations and suddenly realized that many (all?) of the production costs are different from what I'm seeing in the game (v1.6). For example, Hanging Gardens costs me 450, not 300 as stated in the City Building worksheet. At first glance, it looks like all my costs are 50% more, across the board.

I must be missing something. Is it dependent on difficulty level or something?

Edit: Also I just noticed, the Coal Plant is not producing 2 sickness for me? This is in a city without Recycling, and other buildings show sickness as expected. Is this some odd civic trait function I've missed, or something?

@ModernKnight,

Good to hear the work is appreciated.

What difficulty level are you playing? I checked all the values ingame on a noble difficulty level. IIRC cost do change with difficulty level.

Maybe a cost-difficulty modifier would be a good addition. I will look into that.

Hiya Michelangleo, thanks for the reply...

This is a Prince, Tiny, Epic game. I just checked more - approx two-thirds of buildings - and every single one is +50% compared to the spreadsheet.

In this advanced game, I have few wonders left to build. But the three I do (palace, manhattan, SDI) are also +50%.

I would think a simple, small table of +/- percents relative to difficulty level (or whatever determines it) in kroym's xls would be fine. Or maybe let folks choose their level, and the spreadsheet changes to reflect their costs.

No need to have umpteen cost columns, though. Is how I feel.

Thanks if you can let me know just what governs it, and the corresponding percents. I'm making something that you might (or might not!) want to add to kroym's sheet. Knowing the right costs will keep it from "surprising" folks. :P

P.S. Re: the coal plant: I just realized that coal power adds sickness directly to the city. It is not associated with the plant per se. So you see it on the main Health bar as its own add-in, not as +2 sick next to the coal plant. The practical difference is that Recycling Center does not remove this sickness. :(

[QUOTE=ModernKnight]Hiya Michelangleo, thanks for the reply...

This is a Prince, Tiny, Epic game. I just checked more - approx two-thirds of buildings - and every single one is +50% compared to the spreadsheet.

In this advanced game, I have few wonders left to build. But the three I do (palace, manhattan, SDI) are also +50%.
QUOTE]

here you have it : epic is 50% slower, so +50% building costs
marathon is 100% slower so +100% building costs AFAIK (never played, nor run, marathon!)

Guess I'll add my thanks to the list as well. Very usefull charts, most usefull for me is the combat upgrade chart.

Thanx Cabert for clarifying, it makes sense this way.

Some buildings might be "normal" cost as a result of a civ-trait were something would be 50% cheaper, resulting in a net 0% change.

Or maybe let folks choose their level, and the spreadsheet changes to reflect their costs.

:crazyeye: You wish !!!:lol:
But seriously, these charts are also meant to be printed, and having them changed with a lot of options makes them much less printable. If I get the time I'll add a speed correction table.

Love the charts, very helpful.

I'm looking to find a table that shows the culture expansion levels for cites and how they increase (does speed and map size change this). Along the same lines, i'd like to see the GPPs needed to build the next GP (can improvements lower this number?) and how the GP % likelyhood is figured.

Any info would be helpful. If anyone can point me to raw info, i'll be happy to build the tables.

Thanks, all...

Michela, I feel your pain... kroym's ss already has umpteen pages. If it had just a few, it might make sense to have breakouts and flexibility. But not at this level. But to cut to the chase, why not add a note saying the effect of Speed, which Cabert has kindly pointed out as the operand in effect. Makes sense to me, too, Cabert - thanks for pointing us both in the right direction.

I will pop open a few new games and check the production costs at all speeds. Then perhaps you could add it as a footnote to the Building page, or something like that. ("These costs are for x speed. For y speed add...")

Opti0n, I will check to see if culture changes by Speed as well, but I'll only be making a few turns on each speed, so I'm not sure what I'll be able to see.

Kroym - Thank you very much for your hard work. I appreciate your level of organization. I'm new here but I wanted to give you a :thumbsup:

Hiya Michelangleo, thanks for the reply...

This is a Prince, Tiny, Epic game. I just checked more - approx two-thirds of buildings - and every single one is +50% compared to the spreadsheet.

In this advanced game, I have few wonders left to build. But the three I do (palace, manhattan, SDI) are also +50%.

I would think a simple, small table of +/- percents relative to difficulty level (or whatever determines it) in kroym's xls would be fine. Or maybe let folks choose their level, and the spreadsheet changes to reflect their costs.

No need to have umpteen cost columns, though. Is how I feel.

Thanks if you can let me know just what governs it, and the corresponding percents. I'm making something that you might (or might not!) want to add to kroym's sheet. Knowing the right costs will keep it from "surprising" folks. :P
What exactly are you looking for? Something like this (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=3837393&postcount=69), but with the cost of buildings changing?

...Along the same lines, i'd like to see the GPPs needed to build the next GP (can improvements lower this number?) and how the GP % likelyhood is figured...

Read this excelent post (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=146174):

I will pop open a few new games and check the production costs at all speeds. Then perhaps you could add it as a footnote to the Building page, or something like that. ("These costs are for x speed. For y speed add...").

That would be of great help. Thanx. I was thinking to do it in this way to. You can PM your findings to me or include them in the charts yourself.


Opti0n, I will check to see if culture changes by Speed as well, but I'll only be making a few turns on each speed, so I'm not sure what I'll be able to see.
IIRC the culture needed to have a border expansion increases with game-speed, but I don't recall it changing with difficulty.

@all
Keep linking usefull posts to include.

Thanks guys. This is really helpful.

one more thing that changes, one more useful foot note :
at standard size you need 3 temples to build a cathedral, at large size you need 4, huge ?...
I'm pretty sure it changes for globe theater, oxford uni, ironworks ... too, but could not find the figures.

Thanks Kroym I've found the charts to be very helpful.

great work guys. and thanks for updating with the new patch. to often these 'helpful hints' are done with a certain version and a patch comes out but the 'help' is never updated.

once again. good job great follow through!

Thank you for your time consuming hard work

My thanks to Kroym, Michelangelo, and anyone else who has helped out on these charts. I downloaded the original 1.00 version back when the Civilopedia was seriously awful and I've been using one version or another ever since.

I have found what looks to be an error in the v1.6 excel charts I wanted to bring to your attention. Under special abilities for knights on the units tab, the chart lists +25% hills defense. This ability doesn't show up in the Civilopedia, the mouseover data, or the combat odds. Is it perhaps a holdover from a previous patch?

Thanks,

Grogs

Well done. I was looking for something else, and I stumbled on your reference charts. I was just thinking about updating my building list, but I would be better off contributing to yours. I'll PM you when I have some suggestions.

One that comes to mind is a game speed selector to show the correct build costs for the chosen game speed.

One that comes to mind is a game speed selector to show the correct build costs for the chosen game speed.
I've updated the buildings and wonders charts with this change. I'm away from the game, so I cannot confirm the costs. I assumed that building costs behave the same as unit costs with respect to game speed. If not, it's easy to change. Let me know.

There's a drop down menu at the top of both sheets where you can change the game speed.

Enjoy.

Civ IV Reference Charts v1.61.zip removed after 11 views, version obsolete.

Thanx _alphaBeta.
I'll check a couple of the costs. I'm also thinking of making the selection of speed a global-sheet one. So select the speed on the first page and all subsequent sheets are changed for this speed.

Do you know if the difficulty level changes the cost as well?

costs don't change with difficulty

varying things are
* costs (buildings, units, research) with speed
* culture levels with speed (no indications yet of those in the charts, afaik)
* N required buildings with map size (temples, theaters, ...)

that's all varying i'm aware of

Looking through the Civilopedia and the XML files I discovered that the changes made by alphaBeta are not correct. The modifiers are 0,67-1,0-1,5-3,0. Also difficulty level and world size comes in to play.

CRY FOR HELP
Edit, Cry removed b/c I found the answer

you forgot the = in the beginning of the formula?
you entered it as text?

and difficulty levels affect the building costs only for the AI

I found that it's all formatted as text, should have thought of it earlier :blush:

you forgot the = in the beginning of the formula?
you entered it as text?

and difficulty levels affect the building costs only for the AI
Tech-costs are also modified by the world size and difficulty level. At least thats how it appears to me. I checked values from XML with ingame Civilopedia values. They do correspond.

I found that it's all formatted as text, should have thought of it earlier :blush:


Tech-costs are also modified by the world size and difficulty level. At least thats how it appears to me. I checked values from XML with ingame Civilopedia values. They do correspond.

each day brings some novelty on this forum...:mischief:
if you have the formula from the xml, could you just give it here, and as a foot note in the sheets (as a start, before implementing them in the charts)

Looking through the Civilopedia and the XML files I discovered that the changes made by alphaBeta are not correct. The modifiers are 0,67-1,0-1,5-3,0. Also difficulty level and world size comes in to play.
Well as I said, I based the modifiers off how unit costs work. It seems building costs are different. It's an easy change, just let me know for sure that these are the modifiers. It will take seconds to fix.

Quick.......2/3
Normal.....1.0
Epic.........1.5
Marathon...3.0

Are the formulas not displaying properly? All the cells were originally 'text' formatted, but the formula produces a number when I look at it. There may be some transportability issues here across other users and different versions of Excel. Let me know what you are seeing.

Hi,

I've expanded on the addition alphaBeta made. Hope you like it.

Additions:
Game modifier selection on title page
Tech, Building and Wonder cost recalculated according to selected modifiers
Added modifiers to civics page and renamed to civics & game modifiers
Changed description for knight, reported by Grogs

Todo
Add reference to buildings that have prerequisite depending on G/D/W settings (f.i. # temples required for cathedral)

Remark
The sheets are getting more interactive. This may conflict with the ability to print them. Whenever a conflict arises I will take the best solution for printing. In this case you can select Normal, Noble, Duel settings to get standard values to which the given modifiers apply.

I've determined the modifiers by XML, Civilopedia and forum posts. I list them here as well. If there are wrong figures, please notify me.

Game modifiers (Standard = Normal/Noble/Duel)
Speed applies to Technology & Building & Units
Quick 0,67
Normal 1,0
Epic 1,5
Marathon 3,0

Difficulty applies to Technology
Settler 0,6
Chieftain 0,75
Warlord 0,9
Noble 1
Prince 1,1
Monarch 1,15
Emperor 1,2
Immortal 1,25
Deity 1,3
Worldsize applies toTechnology
Duel 1,0
Tiny 1,1
Small 1,2
Standard 1,3
Large 1,4
Huge 1,5

Well as I said, I based the modifiers off how unit costs work. It seems building costs are different. It's an easy change, just let me know for sure that these are the modifiers. It will take seconds to fix.

Quick.......2/3
Normal.....1.0
Epic.........1.5
Marathon...3.0

Are the formulas not displaying properly? All the cells were originally 'text' formatted, but the formula produces a number when I look at it. There may be some transportability issues here across other users and different versions of Excel. Let me know what you are seeing.
I hope you don't mind me expanding upon your contribution :mischief: , see post above.

I've got some problems with the text formating, but got around it. Whenever I change a formula it's changed back to text-format. I then have to change the format to general again, click OK, press F2 and enter to get the formula calculated.:cry: These probably a way around it, just didn't find it.

I also found that unit cost are modified in the same way. Maybe the figures you used are pre 1.61???

I hope you don't mind me expanding upon your contribution :mischief: , see post above.

I've got some problems with the text formating, but got around it. Whenever I change a formula it's changed back to text-format. I then have to change the format to general again, click OK, press F2 and enter to get the formula calculated.:cry: These probably a way around it, just didn't find it.

I also found that unit cost are modified in the same way. Maybe the figures you used are pre 1.61???
Heh, you're quite right. :blush:

Before 1.61 the unit costs used to go like this:
Quick........0.8
Normal......1
Epic.........1.25
Marathon...2

I see after getting in front of the game now, this is no longer the case. I guess I didn't notice the change. Anyway, you fixed it up so no worries.:goodjob:

i did not find what tech enables culture building, and i don't think you can build any from the start.
I was thinking of music, but i'm not sure.

Just for completeness, since i always have drama and music when i want to be culture building...

i did not find what tech enables culture building, and i don't think you can build any from the start.
I was thinking of music, but i'm not sure.

Just for completeness, since i always have drama and music when i want to be culture building...

It's Drama. And it is in the sheets allready, listed as "adjust culture rate"

It's Drama. And it is in the sheets allready, listed as "adjust culture rate"

are you sure it's the same thing?
for gold, you can adjust the slider without tech, while for building gold, you need currency.

You're right, I mixed them up. I checked the ingame-pedia and saw it wasn't listed with any tech. Only on the game-concept page for culture it was told that you can build culture with Music. I'll add this to the next version.
Thanx for sifting through the pages. Keep it up!!

You're right, I mixed them up. I checked the ingame-pedia and saw it wasn't listed with any tech. Only on the game-concept page for culture it was told that you can build culture with Music. I'll add this to the next version.
Thanx for sifting through the pages. Keep it up!!

glad i finally could help to this great work:)

Hi all,

Thanks for providing these charts and for the time you have spent on them!

I noticed that sheep has +1 Happiness as a benefit with improvement (sheet "Terrain and Resource Yields, I24). The "Resource Yield by Improvement" sheet has +1 Health in cell F32.

Again, excellent charts! :)

Now all we need is an updated one for Warlords! (Or has that been done somewhere else?) :)

Now all we need is an updated one for Warlords! (Or has that been done somewhere else?) :)

This is indeed a logical idea. I would be happy to implement it, if I were to have Warlords. For now I don't have it, and I don't plan on buying it in the near future so it's rather difficult to crunch the numbers. So if anyone wants to take up this task, please do.

I'm would be happy to be of assistance with overall integration, layout and stuff.

BTW, besides new units, are there big differences that would show up in the refcharts???

Could you make similar chart for 1.61 dif levels? I'm Civ4 newbie, I know they are located in assets\xml\handicap, but I don't know what the values mean.. and I think it's good to know what bonuses you/AI gain on diffrent levels ;)

@Keraunos,

Actually, some of them are already incorporated in 1.6a (see post #129) like influence on building/tech costs.

I'm planning on adding more functionality to it in the futere.

Hi there!

Since I'm interested in a Walords-compatible reference I started to modify this great reference. Until now I managed to update the Civilization Characteristics chart and changed the title picture.

I have little experience with Excel functions, no experience at all with macros and additionally I use Open Office 2.03 instead of MS Excel. So I stopped work for now to see if I messed up the reference or if I did something good.

For example, I didn't manage to get a word-wrap at the end of one leader's trait benefit in the column Trait Benefit.

Please have a look at this work and don't hesitate to comment on that. Maybe someone more experienced could comment on functions and macros. Michelangelo offered his help which I would appreciate.

Some advise for everyone planning to work on this as well: Civfanatic's Warlords Overview (http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/warlords/) is not correct in every fact. For example, according to Civilopedia the Americans' Unique Building replaces the supermarket but Civfanatics says it replaces grocer. That's hell of a difference!

I hope I didn't stumble over any mistake like that myself. I realized that even Civilopedia has its drawbacks: If you have a look at "Game Concepts"/"Leaders" you won't find any of the new leader traits. :(

Enough words, now it's your turn to comment.

Jensen

PS: Unfortunately I cannot attach the file though it is a .zip. Thus I uploaded it to my private web server. Please download here (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads12/warlords.zip).
I'd appreciate help on that, too. :blush:

@Jensen,

Great thing you are willing to take this up. I've tried downloading from the link but it doesn't work. "http://forums.civfanatics.com/lupo.servercounterstrike.com/warlords.zip" also looks like a strange location. :confused: Typo???

Do you own Warlords? I usually just go in game, look at the XML files and so to get the info I need.

IIRC someone also tried adding stuff with Open Office and we experienced compatibility problems.

The macro is used to get the coloring right. I made it, so I should be able to help with implementing it.

I've some idea what changes that are made in warlords and think it would be best to either create a seperate reference file for warlords or giving it it's own sheets in the same reference. I the differnce isn't worth an extra sheet, it should be displayed in such a way that you can still see the difference between 1.61 and warlords. But I would be happy to take a look at it if you can change the file.

BTW to upload a file you can use the manage attachment button in the post editor or the file upload function at the bottom of every forum page.

Good luck with it.

Hm... my URL at the message is correct: http:/lupo.servercounterstrike.com/warlords.zip

BUT the forum somehow added this forums.civfanatics.com.

If I try to upload the file with the "Attach Files" button at the bottom of my message's edit screen I get the message:

Upload Errors
warlords.zip:
Invalid File

Jensen

Whooho! I got the file uploaded with the button at the bottom of every forum page:

Download here (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads12/warlords.zip)

I'm excited to hear your comments.

Ah, and to answer your question: I own Warlords, yes. Hm, XML would do I guess. I'll keep that in mind for further work on the reference.

Jensen

Yep, downloaded it and looked at it.

As I mentioned before my preference would be to somehow keep the new warlord info seperated if possible so the reference can be used by 1.61 players as well as warlords players. If existing values also change I think it would become difficult to do so and a seperate reference is in order. What your idea on this?

The coloring you can do by copying the formats only from an existing row. It should work, at least it does here.

Since they changed about half of the leaders' traits at least the Civilization Characteristics chart should be completely remade (as I've done). I think it wouldn't fit a page if you describe every leader's trait benefits in one page - you'd have to write up to four benefits in this column.

You could make the file "switch-able": Like the difficulty level you could switch the game BUT I, for example, want to print the reference which would be more difficult if you have two versions in one (I even consider this difficulty-switch a bit annoying, but I just keep it default).

I think we should just add a new Civilization Characteristic chart and try to "squeeze" everything else in the already present charts. Can't be that hard, eight units, three wonders, some new promotions for the general. Am I missing anything?

The Warlords-only facts can be colored in some bright color (suitable for black-white printing).

No new technology, no new terrain or ressources.

We need a new chart for the unique buildings, though. They won't fit into the existing city buildings chart.

I'd like to know where I can get the upgrade cost for the units. Which XML is it? But don't mind if you don't know, I can try to look that up myself.

What about this Open Office compatibility issue? Is everything still fine in MS Excel as well?

Jensen

Since they changed about half of the leaders' traits at least the Civilization Characteristics chart should be completely remade (as I've done). I think it wouldn't fit a page if you describe every leader's trait benefits in one page - you'd have to write up to four benefits in this column.

Agreed, but the old one should be included then as well.

You could make the file "switch-able": Like the difficulty level you could switch the game BUT I, for example, want to print the reference which would be more difficult if you have two versions in one (I even consider this difficulty-switch a bit annoying, but I just keep it default).

Can you clarify your small annoyance a bit. My idea was to have it standard and have the modifiers listed relate to the standard settings. This is also the best for printing I think. If someone wishes he/she could change a setting and watch the changes. I agree that this isn't very good for printing, but that was never the intention. If you have any other ideas, please tell me.


I think we should just add a new Civilization Characteristic chart and try to "squeeze" everything else in the already present charts. Can't be that hard, eight units, three wonders, some new promotions for the general. Am I missing anything?
Agreed. All costs stay the same???


The Warlords-only facts can be colored in some bright color (suitable for black-white printing).

Agreed, we can add an extra small column that is colored. It should stand out enough.


No new technology, no new terrain or ressources.

Great, especially the technology part is this is very labour intensive.


We need a new chart for the unique buildings, though. They won't fit into the existing city buildings chart.

Agreed, but as goes for the leader page the old one should be included then as well.


I'd like to know where I can get the upgrade cost for the units. Which XML is it? But don't mind if you don't know, I can try to look that up myself.

Don't know, this was provided by Kroym it think. I would start though on the units.xml combined with the handicap.xml and worldsize.xml.


What about this Open Office compatibility issue? Is everything still fine in MS Excel as well?

This version looked good, exept for a small row-coloring problem. Oh, and after taking a look at the tech-chart, the lines are all messed up. :sad: Now I remember this being the problem before. However if this is the only problem I can merge any additions you make into a excel version from within excel and so preserve the correct formatting.



Jensen

Can you clarify your small annoyance a bit. My idea was to have it standard and have the modifiers listed relate to the standard settings. This is also the best for printing I think. If someone wishes he/she could change a setting and watch the changes. I agree that this isn't very good for printing, but that was never the intention. If you have any other ideas, please tell me.

Maybe I got it wrong: I think this difficulty switch will adjust unit/building cost (meaning hammers here) and technology cost (bulbs or test tubes, respectively). But if I just want to have an overview I don't want to have that special information for every imaginable case. I for myself want the standard values and just anticipate some rough calculations about modifiers by difficulty, world-size and speed.

And btw: I just wanted to test these switches. In my charts the cost for every tech, building and unit is just zero. :-( Haven't noticed that before since I had an older version until yesterday.

However, v1.6 from Apr. 16th, 2006 works just fine. It has no switch at all. Seems Open Office users are just left out here. :-/

All costs stay the same???

I think so, but I noted down to check this. I'll work on it this evening I think.

Since you offered to keep an eye on the layout anyway could you please just add my newly created chart into the reference and just release it (perhabs marking it beta)? So every interested player could have a look.

And for further work maybe I just make the new charts (either new or out of the old ones as stated above) and you add it to the reference? We'd be sure to have a working version then.

...except for this difficulty-switch thing here. Hm.... What a pity this doesn't work in Open Office. I'll have a look at it and google around a bit. Maybe I'll find something. Just for printing purpose I could use MS Office at work, but it's sad indeed for home usage.

Personally I'd rather use no MS Office specific funtion anyway just to make no one tempted to copy this software illegally. Personal experience makes me believe most Office users didn't purchase it. But I know this is just my two cents and it's too late by now.

Yours,
Jens

OK, here's what I've done:

First of all I used MS Office 2003! I see beautiful colors now... didn't see them in OO. :)

I inserted my Open Office made Civ 4 Warlords Civilization Characteristics chart. Changed names of both civilization charts to something hopefully reasonable. Worked fine.

I inserted my Open Office made Unique Building chart (new). I have static costs here since I haven't managed to understand your functions yet. Maybe you could....

I inserted the two new Warlords non-unique buildings in the city buildings chart. I colored them to clarify the difference. But I couldn't manage to color that cell at the bottom of the chart. It is colored by default because it's a "yellow" row, but why can't I give it another custom color? I was lucky that all inserted buildings got a non-colored row. ;)

However, download and comment please: http://lupo.servecounterstrike.com/civ4.zip

(I don't want to upload all my beta files so I use this way to post my "nightly-built")

Jensen

Two things I forgot to say:

I used Michelangelo's v1.6a and just inserted my own new stuff with MS Office. This way I hopefully prevented damage to functions, macros, graphics and so on.

Opening the file I get a message saying this file is connected with external data from another file. :confused: What to do about it? I didn't notice I did connect anything.... How to fix this?

Jensen

I've looked at it and it was great. I've send you an PM with an update. I think it better to post intermediate versions that way to not clutter the forum with a lot of versions.

apologies if I've missed it somewhere... are there Warlords updated pdf files of the reference cahrts available?

are there Warlords updated pdf files of the reference cahrts available?
Not yet, we're working on it.

And btw: There is no PDF until now. Has there ever been one? (I've missed page 3 to 6 of this thread myself. ;)

However, I'd already thought about crating one since I'm an Open Office user and wouldn't be able to open the file correctly (like seeing no cost at all).

Jensen

The original charts (pre-Warlords) that I got were in pdf form. See the second link in post #1 of this thread.

The original charts (pre-Warlords) that I got were in pdf form. See the second link in post #1 of this thread.
:blush: Yes, you're right. :blush:

I'm glad to upload the new version, now including the Warlords expansion pack.

Special thanks go out to Jensen as he has compiled all the new data concerning Warlords.

Changes:
- Included warlord data to buildings, units, wonders, civilizations, upgrades, promotions
- Updated technology flowchart to include warlords.
- Added modifier-based cost to unit- and unitupgrade tab
- Included errors reported earlier in this thread

TODO:
- Promotion chart to include warload-lead unit promotions
- Fix errors reported here ;)

Here it is, XLS and PDF

Civ IV+WL Reference Charts v1.61+W(PDF).zip (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads12/Civ_IV+WL_Reference_Charts_v161+W(PDF).zip)

That's great! :)

The PDF version is not downloadable though - coming up with an error.

And I havent got Excel so I can't load that one! :(

The Excel chart looks good, though I found that cost functions don't work when you change things like Game Speed.

Also noticed a couple of other things like the UU strengths have not been updated. Cossacks are now 15 and Redcoats are 14. Might be a few other changes with them too.

Thanks for working on it!

@Jimdigriz
Fixed now, thanx for reporting

@bolt144
Strange, here they work. Which costs do you look at? Not all costs are dependend on all three settings. Look at the top of the page to see which setting is applicable.

The difference in cost could be true. However b/c I still don't have Warlord it's not possible for me to check. For the current values for warlord I depended on Jensen who's done a great job. But if you, or Jensen, can look at these changes, great and if nescesary I'll change them in the files.

I found that when I switched to Epic and went to "Technology Advances", under cost it only showed "#VALUE!". For Agriculture, the formula was:

=ROUNDDOWN(J3*'Title Page'!$G$17*'Title Page'!$G$18*'Title Page'!$G$19,0)

Where if I closed Excel, reopened it and did not change anything and went to that same page, all appeared fine. Only when I changed it did it not work.

The same would be true if I went to "Unique Buildings WL only".

The formula would be:

=F3*'Title Page'!$G$17

If I changed it to:

=F3*'Title Page'!$F$17

Then it would work but just on this page, not the others. I know a few things about Excel, but not enough to fix this.

Also had problems with the Wonders and Units page. I'm using Excel 2000. Not sure if that has anything to do with it. Maybe it is something with my system.

Nice charts.

One omission is that the Unit Promotions table doesn't list the reduced collateral damage effect of the Drill promotions. Also, the Chariot/WarChariot/Immortal descriptions don't mention the bonus vs axemen.

Ok, I figured out what was going on. I noticed that the numbers in the Civics worksheet had comma's in there. Then I figured that many places in European countries use comma's instead of decimals in the numbers, like we do in the States. Once I replaced them with the decimals, everything worked.

I wonder if there is a way to tie this field to the Regional settings of the computer rather then have to have two versions of this.

Im probably being stupid :blush: but on the PDF one you cannot change the types of game with the drop down buttons on the first page...has this not been implemented yet etc?

Great charts though, printing them out now! :)

@bolt144,

You had me wondering there. Everything worked great on my machine (European ;)) I've been struggling with the comma thing on more than a few occasions. I would think Excell when opened should be smart enough to find out what to use. I'm not sure how to fix this permenantly. Any help from you or someone else would be great.

@Floppymoose, I'll check this and you'll find it in the next version

@Jimdigriz, The PDF-files are there for printing only. The extra functionality is Excel bound and can't be ported to PDF.

Note that when you fix the things I pointed out, yuo will have to note that those changes are Warlords specific. Those sections of the charts don't have lines that are partially civ/warlords, and partially warlords only, so you'll have to figure out how you want to indicate that.

@floppymoose,

Could you perhaps add the specific info to the files and PM it to me. You can mark every change you make with a floppymoose-specific color. I'll sort the layout thing then. I would do it myself, but as I don't have Warlord yet, i'm bound to make mistakes.

/me wonders if I have anything that will edit pdf files...

:lol:

I know something :crazyeye: , print it, use a pen, scan it again, send it back.:mischief:

Hm I don't have excel. :(

Any other way to see this very useful information?

@bolt144,

You had me wondering there. Everything worked great on my machine (European ;)) I've been struggling with the comma thing on more than a few occasions. I would think Excell when opened should be smart enough to find out what to use. I'm not sure how to fix this permenantly. Any help from you or someone else would be great.

The easiest way to fix this is to replace the constant decimal values with a simple calculation using integers. Thus:

1.5 (1,5 for Europeans) becomes =15/10
1.25 becomes =125/100

and so on. You will have to reformat the cells to left justify.

(Note: I am not sure if the factor for Quick speed should be 2/3 or 67/100. My guess is the latter if the XML has 0.67 but I am not at a place I can look it up. It shouldn't make too much difference either way.)

@pixiejmcc

You can try the PDF-version in the same post, or use Open Office, although several people reported screwed-up functionality. Either way, you'll need excel to use it fully.

@JackOfClubs,
Interesting idea. I'll have to check first how much work this will be. Until now I only got one report in this issue. So if others also report it, the balance could shift in favor of changing. ;)

The charts are useful, but would be much better if they printed in a readable size.

As far as I can tell, it is only on the Game Modifiers chart on the Civics page that the problem exists. I modified it on my own copy in about 10 seconds.

Alternatively, it might just be a matter of setting those columns to Number since they are currently formatted as Text. My guess is that Excell knows how to handle the regional settings for numbers and it just translates those formulas correctly for your region. But when downloaded on a system that uses American formatting, it doesn't recognize the text as numerical and produces an error.

I have attached the civics page if any one wants it. It would probably be easier just to make the changes on the downloaded copy.

Incidentally, only the Speed and Worldsize sections had the European formatting on the copy I downloaded. The Difficulty section all had periods instead of commas. Does changing the difficulty not cause you problems?

@JackOfClubs,
Yeah, you're right. Somehow in the earlier versions of these charts everything has been formatted as text. I've had some issues with that before discovering that. I'll try to fix that with the next updated version, so everything will be working better from then on.


@Wolf120/115
I know there are some pages printed a bit small. I'll see if I make them print on two pages for better reading. In the meantime, you can allways print them on A3 ;)

A couple notes:

First, if you don't have Excel, there is a free Excel-viewer program out there. Google it or something (sorry, don't have link atm, and about to rush off).

Second, could the original post either be updated to reflect the latest and greatest version of the file, or could you start a whole new thread for the new Warlords data?

Thanks for the excellent data!

One more quick note: adjusting the adjusters on the Title page throws the whole sheet into chaos. I think the fix is to find all the references to those 3 cells and change them to the proper values.

That is, change:

'Title Page'!$G$17 to 'Title Page'!$F$17
'Title Page'!$G$18 to 'Title Page'!$F$18
'Title Page'!$G$19 to 'Title Page'!$F$19

most likely the search and replace functionality will do this for you with a minimum of fuss.

@TheDS,

This is strange. In my copy, which should be the same, it should defeniately be the cells in the G-column. The values in the F-column represent the selection made, and in the G-column corresponds with the actual modification value to use.

Please check if these two values are in your E and F or F and G column before changing it.

I cannot change the first post as it is not mine. I'll have to wait for KroYM to return to the forums for that. If this takes a bit longer I'll consider starting a new thread. I't isn't usefull to start a Warlords only thread as these reference charts are for both versions of civ.

A great resource, many thanks. May I make a suggestion to add the fact that happiness effects of fur, whale and ivory expire with plastics, combustion and industrialism respectively. For example, in resource yield by improvement under other effects, by fur you could add "+1 happy face (expires with plastics)" etc.
Similar comment in terrain and resource yields chart. These things are listed in the tech tree sections, but might be handy in the other charts too.

Hi,

I adjusted some text-formatted numbers to numbers format. Can you please confirm if this solves several bugs, as suggested by Bolt144 and JackofClubs.

I also adjusted it a bit for better printing.

Looks and works great, Michelangelo! Thanks!

Hi,

I adjusted some text-formatted numbers to numbers format. Can you please confirm if this solves several bugs, as suggested by Bolt144 and JackofClubs.

I also adjusted it a bit for better printing.

Michelangelo, the basic research cost for Education in the spreadsheet seems to be 4500. I believe it should be 1800.

Maybe somebody pointed this out already, on the city buildings page Banks are no longer built 1/2 cost with financial civs. That bonus was taken away in one of the patches.

@bolt144, Great that's solved then. Thanks for testing

@ProbStat, you seem to be right. You'll find it corrected in the next version

@playshogi, I'll check this and update the charts with it. Thanx.

I was about to make some reference charts for myself when I found yours! Great job, now I have less work to do and more time to play!

A suggested addition to these wonderful player aids would be a ordered list of the tech lightbulb provided by each type of Great Person. - Here's a link to the thread in the forum that discusses this topic:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=140952

Hi,

I adjusted some text-formatted numbers to numbers format. Can you please confirm if this solves several bugs, as suggested by Bolt144 and JackofClubs.

I also adjusted it a bit for better printing.

Could the pdf one be adjusted too? I dont know how to adjust the font size to make the printed charts easier to read.

I'm not confident in my Excel programming... so, I wonder if someone would be willing to add the following Warlords updates to the ref charts. I found them in the various posts on Warlords changes in these forums and have verfied most of them myself in-game. Thanks!

* Heroic Epic requires a level 5 unit (as oposed to 4 previously) and West
Point level 6 (as oposed to 5)
* Barracks provide only +3XP (instead of +4XP) but are cheaper (50 hammers
instead of 60)
* Castles provide +1 Trade route (the benefit expires with Economics)
* Chariots get +100% attack vs. Axemen (only attack)
* Chariots have +10% retreat chance (instead of +20%)
* Drill II-IV provide -20% collateral damage also (besides the original
first strikes)
* Redcoats reduced to 14 strength (from 16)
* Cossacks reduced to 15 strength (from 18)
* Horse Archers have reduced (-10%) City Attack but get +20% retreat chance
* Forts can be built over forests
* Fascism gives a free Great General for the first civilization that discovers
it
* Siege units (except Machine Gun) are immune to collateral damage
* Forts act as a city for combat purposes
* Machine Guns promote to Mech. Infantry instead of SAM Infantry
* Siege class units always defend last, regardless of their remaining strength
* The Spiral Minaret gives +2gold per building (instead of +1)

The Palace seems to be missing from the Buildings tab.

great charts

only thing i am missing is a "tech tree" for unit upgrades (not promotions, but upgrades)
other than that it's perfect.

@jray

Thanx for your effort. I'll like to add them to the charts. You say however that you checked most of them. As I still don't have warlords :sad: I cannot check it myself. Can you check them all, or tell me what changes you've checked allready. I'll also have to think about the way how to put it in the sheets.

@spoooq,
Whoops, I'll check and add it.

@Enigma256
We have an upgrade chart that shows which units can be upgraded to which unit and how much it costs. Basically it shows the same information as a chart with arrows, only differently formatted. It's also a great deal of work making such chart, and I don't have the time right now to do it. But if anyone feels up to it :D , let me know.

@Jimdigriz
When the above changes have been confirmed I'll post a new version and make also the pdf. In the current pdf there have been no changes to the numbers, me thinks. ;)

arrows are prettier than charts ;)

and regarding jray's list:
i can confirm everything except:
* Siege class units always defend last, regardless of their remaining strength

i think there is also an exception for machine gun, but i am not 100% sure.

Hi Michaelangelo!

I love your work on the charts! They are superb! However, I discovered (by accident) that Julius Ceasar's trait description for the warlords page still has the text of the financial trait as opposed to his new imperial trait. Otherwise, looks sharp! -Mike

Hi everyone,

We've experienced a small lapse in updates. But I'm confident we will post a new version soon, incorporation all the remarks posted here and more.

:goodjob:
Thanks a lot for this superb reference source. :D

I also have one question. I never work in Excel so i don't know it very well. I have turned off macros since I hear they can be a source for virii. Not that I think the reference charts are infected but I get a prompt from Excel when I load the file that macros are turned off, and I just wonder if I miss some feature in the reference charts by not allowing macros?

Thanks a lot!

Nice work Michelangelo!

I very much appreciate the work you and other are putting into this reference. I am particularly happy to have easy access to unit costs.

Keep up the good work.

One small detail that could be added - how about listing the number of food that is required for each level of city growth? I believe it's 22/24/26 etc in normal speed but I'm not sure.

I finally managed to correct all errors and add all changes coming with the 2.08 Warlords patch. Thanks to all for reporting all the "bugs".

Now it's up to Michelangelo to finalize the sheet - I'm sure he'll do so as soon as possible to him.

Jensen

I finally managed to correct all errors and add all changes coming with the 2.08 Warlords patch. Thanks to all for reporting all the "bugs".

Now it's up to Michelangelo to finalize the sheet - I'm sure he'll do so as soon as possible to him.

Jensen

Awesome, I'll be looking forward to it!!

Not to throw a monkey wrench into things, but keep in mind that there are at least a few things that are in the patch's readme file that did not actually make it into the patch. For example, alexman himself confirmed that Barbarian Spearmen and Barbarian Galleys didn't make the cut (although I'm not sure that kind of thing is in refcharts anyway). I've also seen reports that Stables are not actually obsoleted by Rocketry (although I haven't been able to confirm that one myself).

Anyway, these are just nitpicky things, and so far nobody has posted an official list of such... and we can always update as needed when it arrives.

I finally managed to correct all errors and add all changes coming with the 2.08 Warlords patch. Thanks to all for reporting all the "bugs".

Now it's up to Michelangelo to finalize the sheet - I'm sure he'll do so as soon as possible to him.

Jensen

Thanx Jensen for putting the pressure on :mischief: But also thanx for your work.

As posted by JRay, some posted changes didn't make it to the game. If anyone can confirm them I can add them.

Michelangelo: Just blame me for the current delay ;)

Well, for the changes which haven't made it into the patch: The only changes relevant to this reference sheet are the ones regarding the point "Balance". I checked them with Civilopedia and confirmed the following:

Increased trebuchet cost to 80
Quarries give +1 shield with railroads
Expansive gets +50% production for workers, and just +2 health
Navigation II requires Flanking
Leadership gives double experience points
Stables obsolete with Rocketry (when mounted units upgrade to Gunships)
Creative gets cheap Libraries
Organized gets cheap Factories
Jaguar gets Woodsman promotion instead of 25% jungle defense
Pyramids cost 500
Colosseum and Odeon cost 80
Mall: +20% gold
Guerilla3 gives +30% withdrawal in addition to hills attack bonus
Walls give 25% protection to bombardment (so they are relevant even in high-culture cities)
Castle gives 25% protection to bombardment
Spanish Citadel gives +5XP to siege
Heroic Epic available with a level 4 unit
Gallic Warrior can also be built with Copper
Great Wall gives just 1 Great Person point per turn
Temple of Artemis: reduced cost to 350

I also found that I missed something because I just ignored one chart :blush: - just my fault:

Representation: +3 Happy in largest cities
Civil Service requires Mathematics
Bureaucracy: High upkeep
Masonry has higher religious weight

Another thing is that the Military Acadamy is not in the charts at all so I have not taken care of these changes:

Military Academy: +50% production for military units
Military Academy requires Education
Military Academy gives 3 culture

But I think I'll add the Acadamy when I'll correct the other things tonight. We have an own chart for Wonders in Warlords anyway by now because it just looked terrible when I tried to get it all in one.

One thing is still not clear to me:

Shrines immune to nukes

I cannot confirm this though I haven't looked into xml files by now. I'll do so tonight.

Jensen

Michelangelo: Just blame me for the current delay ;)

Well, for the changes which haven't made it into the patch: The only changes relevant to this reference sheet are the ones regarding the point "Balance". I checked them with Civilopedia and confirmed the following...

Do you think maybe the Civilopedia just didn't get updated? Firaxis's Civlopedia usually lags a patch or two behind the actual game updates. I'd be really bummed if all that stuff didn't actually make it into the game!!

Do you think maybe the Civilopedia just didn't get updated? Firaxis's Civlopedia usually lags a patch or two behind the actual game updates. I'd be really bummed if all that stuff didn't actually make it into the game!!

Well, the fact that all changes I have checked excepting this nuke-immune shrine actually ARE in the Civilopedia makes me believe that current Civilopedia is up to date.

In fact at least some the values must have been different before the patch because I happened to check them while adding Warlords-specific entries to the sheet. So I just think Civilopedia's right here, but please prove me wrong if I'm mistaken.

Jensen

For the immune shrines I found this in CIV4BuildingInfos.xml:

<bNukeImmune>1</bNukeImmune>

So this is really true.

Fixed all errors and sent the file to Michelangelo again. :-)

Jensen

Well, the fact that all changes I have checked excepting this nuke-immune shrine actually ARE in the Civilopedia makes me believe that current Civilopedia is up to date.

In fact at least some the values must have been different before the patch because I happened to check them while adding Warlords-specific entries to the sheet. So I just think Civilopedia's right here, but please prove me wrong if I'm mistaken.

Jensen

If you'd be willing to post your detailed observations regarding the patch changelog / Civilopedia inconsistency over in the Warlords Bug Reports forum, then maybe we could get an official answer from Firaxis :). Otherwise we'll have to check everything out ourselves, which could take a while... and I'd rather learn the easy way than the hard way :crazyeye:.

After a long delay, finally here is the new version compatible with the new warlords patch 2.08

There have been a lot of changes made, but some highlights are:
- Warlords data added by Jensen
- Updated promotion chart by Michelangelo (idea from vyapti)
- fixing typos + errors pointed out by forum members (thanx)

Download Civ 4 Reference charts (http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=2499) from file db

Also available in PDF version:
PDF Version (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/1584/Civ_IV_WL_Reference_Charts_v161_WL208_PDF_.zip)

Hi,

I've been using this since it was first posted it's fantastic. I just updated to the latest version and noticed the promotions now include Warlords. I don't have warlords but I did notice a new Guerilla III promotion that is not listed as warlords only.

BTW As the OP is no longer active in the thread, it might be a good idea to ask the Academy Staff to update post#1 regarding the new version.

@Perugia,

This could be my doing. I think Jensen put it in correctly, but I somewhere changed it. I'll check it and change it back in the next version

Thunderfall also changed the first page to link it to the file database. This should show people in the right direction.

Excellent job guys. :goodjob:
I know how much work this is. (see sig)

To everyone who contributed to this project, I thank you. :worship:

Message deleted.

As the capital can have a Palace and 2 other National Wonders you could change the National Wonders screen against the effects of the Palace as follows

Makes the city the capital, reduces maintenance in nearby cities, +1 happy face, does not count against 2 National Wonders per city limit

Is this project dead and buried? I've just downloaded the ref charts and noticed that Fishing Boats are missing (although Whaling Boats are there) in the resource/terrain improvement yields worksheet.

@JesusOnEez,

Not dead and buried, just finished. :) This ofcourse, except some small errors/typos like you point out. I'll check it. I'm planning on updating these charts sometime after the new expansion is released.

I'm planning on updating these charts sometime after the new expansion is released.

Does that mean you will finally buy an expansion? :lol:

Greetings

Does that mean you will finally buy an expansion? :lol:

Greetings

I was hoping you would :p

But I'm hoping for a all expansions in 1 deal.

CIV Complete not long after BTS I reckon. Thanks for responding.

Newbie here would like to see an updated Reference Chart for BtS...
An updated Game Manual would be nice too..:-) Thankx !:confused:

@Zoot06

Jensen and I are planning to update the charts for BTS. I've ordered my copy but haven't recieved it yet. Please allow us some time to create the updated charts, they will come.

Probably I will first play a bit of the new expansion though. ;) Need to know what to put into the charts, right ;)

In the meantime if anyone find additional typos to those allready mentioned here since the last update, please let us know here.

When we make the updated sheets available I'll probably start a new thread for it, so keep an eye on that.

http://mcon.pl/~civman/C4BtS_reference.pdf

Download, print and enjoy!

@dj anion,

Looks great, I sure can learn from the way you present it, very slick, but it results in a lot more pages of info.
Do you mind if I borrowed some of you sheets to incorporate into ours, prob not literally.

Unfortunately, not only does PDF not float my boat ("hate it" wouldn't be too strong of a complaint), but I can't edit it for my own purposes (not all the information is presented the way I want it to be), or update it as new information or patches are released that change things (which happens a lot in some games).

So: are there plans to update the spreadsheet to BtS?

TheDS,

I've included a PDF version for people who don't have Excel and to assure it is printed the way it is intended. There is also an Excel-version which allows setting some game-options that influence costs so the sheets are correct for all settings.

I'm currently working on the BTS additions. Basically only need to update the unit charts, the rest is finished. However RL has taken over last week, but I expect to be able to finish them soon. I've allready included the 1.74 and 2.13 patches as I couldn't find changes in them ;)

So please have a bit more patience, if you would like to see information presented differently, please let me know, and I'll see if I can include it in the charts.

See you

@Michelangelo – I just wanted to say that I'm thrilled to hear that you're working on updating your charts.

The one anion produced is beautiful… but not nearly as useful for quick reference as the format you have used in the Vanilla and Warlords charts.

Can't wait to see your update for BtS!

And thank you, thank you, thank you! :beer:

EDIT: and thanks to kroYM also, of course!

There's another spreadsheet somewhere around here (yours?) for Civ4 and Warlords that I liked a lot, matched up well with the one I made before Warlords came out. When I saw someone was doing a better job of it, I stopped updating mine.

Of course, not everything was exactly how I liked it, but with Excel being an editable format, I was able to make whatever changes I wanted, and add in a few bits from my own sheet.

Asking you to conform the whole document to my needs would be rather unreasonable of me to ask, especially since my needs change, but I didn't think an Excel file would be a big request, since there was already most of the work done, and Excel can do anything you've already done in that PDF, plus be able to edit it or adjust the lists' order on the fly, or rapidly reach any list with a single click. PDFs can be made out of other file formats, but the reverse is not always true.

I don't like PDF because it's too unwieldy to use, can't be edited without spending obscene amounts of money (most computers come with a spreadsheet program, none come with PDF-editing), they're a PITA to edit (and not on the fly either), and suck up entirely too much memory. They're not especially fast to use either. I like my screen real estate to be used for information; I can display about 4 times as much useful information, and scroll through it faster if it leads off the screen, by using Excel instead of PDF.

With all those advantages, I can't see why the average person would want to use PDF at all. But there are plenty of people whose computers don't come with a free spreadsheet, and it's much easier to find a free PDF reader than a free Excel reader, but that's more a vocal minority and Adobe shoving it down people's throats.

I'm not trying to rag on you and your fine work - the PDF is beautiful and looks very complete - I couldn't think of anything it was missing. However, referencing it is slow, both because the information is presented in a space-wasting manner and because PDFs are by nature slow to use. If I were to have it open while playing the game, it would take up too much precious RAM and slow down things even more, and if I were to print it out (with I'm anethema to do anyway) it would cost a small fortune for a game I don't even get to play that much.

There's another spreadsheet somewhere around here (yours?) for Civ4 and Warlords that I liked a lot

If it's mine, it's the same as the PDF. I've made an Excel version and for people without Excel or Excel-viewer also made a PDF from it (as I mentioned 3 posts above ;) ) So it could be mine.

I agree that the "Live" excel version offers more functionality than the static PDF version, but that one is just meant for printing as Excel tends to screw up with printing on different computers.

Didn't find time this weekend to work a bit more on finishing the sheets for BtS as we got very nice weather (for a change) and I just couldn't stay inside behind my computer.:D
I'll keep you updated.

:bump: Any word on this?

No nagging from me - I greatly appreciate those that donate time to help all of us out - just looking for an update!

Thanks! :salute:

@General W

I'm still planning to finish it. It's 80% complete but RL has taken over last month. I hope to finish it in the coming weeks though no promises. Stay tuned!!!!

@General W

I'm still planning to finish it. It's 80% complete but RL has taken over last month. I hope to finish it in the coming weeks though no promises. Stay tuned!!!!

Will do! Really looking forward to the new version! Nasty at times that RL thing ain't it :(

Thanks for the chart and keep up the good work!

Please be aware that the Arabs, Aztecs and Egypt have the trait "Spirtual" instead of "Spiritual" in the "Civilizations Civ4"-tab.

Similar error are found in the "Civilization Warlords"-tab (Celts, Egypts, Arabs, Aztecs).

I'm using this chart a lot, and I've customized it in a way I find very useful. In the "Technology Tree Flow Chart", I've linked the cost from the previous tab, so that the cost is shown adjacent to each gray tech box. It took me a bit rearranging to look nice, but it helps me to provide a quick grasp of the cost. I've also added a small icon to each tech that founds a religion to make it more clear.

What?! Whadaya mean, no promises? I want promises!!! I'm holding my breath 'til this comes out! :blush: Get back to work. If you're anything like me, you'd better devote every spare waking hour and get it done in the next couple days, or you'll never get it done. Come on, everybody, let the man know how important this work is. :goodjob:

(Oh, and I hope you're accounting for the changes made in 3.13.) :mischief:

:agree: I also demand that you work night-and-day without pay on a project for my personal benefit! :D


Seriously – I’m excited to see this when you get done. I know it’s a lot of work, so – THANK YOU – in advance! :salute:

It will come, rest assured. But keep reminding me in case I forget ;)

I haven't looked at the new patch yet, are there many changes???

Here are the relevant gameplay updates:


GAMEPLAY

Cristo Redentor allows 1 turn between civics changes, not zero turns.
Attack Sub: 30 strength, 7 moves, 180 cost
Destroyers also upgrade to Missile Cruisers
Customs House and Feitoria give +100% Foreign trade route income
Reduced inflation and better normalized it with game speed
Inflation no longer increases after the game time limit has been reached
Adjusted corporation maintenance for inflation
Corporation Headquarters give 4 gold per corporation city to balance corporation immunity to inflation
Spies downgrade towns, hamlets, and villages instead of completely destroying them
Military Science moved to Renaissance
Can't vote on a winner if one team already has all the votes necessary to win
Updated Apostolic Palace civilopedia text to show that all members receive the religious building production bonus, unless they defy a resolution.
Revised liberation formula
- Fixes exploit of infinite unit generation through city liberation

Liberation no longer provides free units to non-vassals
Cities no longer auto-liberate on conquest except from a vassal to a master
Colonies no longer can be the same civ as an existing one
Colony gets all of prior owner's culture on the entire continent
Can no longer make a colony on a continent with an existing colony. Liberate cities instead.
Great Works brings city out of revolt, as before BTS
Unlimited Corporation Executives now allowed
Invisible units no longer get bumped when an enemy occupies the same tile.
Can no longer build forts in rival territory
Can no longer blockade from within your own cultural borders
Spread culture espionage mission increases your culture by 5% of the total culture in the city
Vassals can no longer use spies against their master (active missions)
Espionage Poison Water and Unhappiness amounts no longer incorrectly scale with game speed
Added minimal conscription ability to all gunpowder and melee units that didn't previously have it
- Prevents situation where you can't draft when you can build SAM Infantry but not Infantry

Rival spies no longer count as friendly units for nuke attacks
Blockading consumes all remaining movement
Blockade is canceled when unit does something other than blockade
Blitz promotion available to ships
Frigate, Ship of the Line, and East Indiaman bombardment ignores walls and Castles
Colony maintenance capped at twice the distance maintenence
All teams get espionage points against a newly formed Colony.
Fighters no longer get experience points for shooting down units that cannot defend (paratroopers)
Paratroopers have 25% evasion chance


Full changelog is here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=245912

Thanks Michelangelo!
:salute:

@ General_W

Thank for the change-list. I'll incorporate it into the sheets.

Yesterday I finally found some time to work on the sheets again, one more page finished. Still a couple to go though.

Are we there yet?

I'm a huge fan and heavy user of your spreadsheet. :goodjob: I don't have BTS but I'd just like to point out that the latest Warlords patch could have changed "favorite civics" for some of the leaders. In a diplo game (Warlords) I was playing yesterday I noticed:
. Peter of Russia having Bureaucracy as fav civic (XLS says Police State)
. Asoka of India having Free Religion as fav civic (XLS says Univ Suffrage)

I didn't check the other leaders but I think it is worth reviewing that column.

Count me in the "desperately looking forward to this" camp! Let me know if there's any way I can help, perhaps by updating whichever pages you've yet to complete?

:bump: Can we get an update on any progress?

Thanks Michelangelo! :beer:

I'm really glad to see that this forum is still active! I recently got BTS as a B-day gift but haven't installed it yet. Besides trying to finish the GOTM first, I don't want to give up this reference guide! I've been using it since I started playing CIV4 and refer to it so much that my wife is convinced it came with the game! I love the fact that all the relavent information for a topic is contained on one page. Please let me know if there is anything I came do to help on this effort. I don't have a lot of free time, but I consider this guide indespensable, so would love to help.

I'm really glad to see that this forum is still active! I recently got BTS as a B-day gift but haven't installed it yet. Besides trying to finish the GOTM first, I don't want to give up this reference guide! I've been using it since I started playing CIV4 and refer to it so much that my wife is convinced it came with the game! I love the fact that all the relavent information for a topic is contained on one page. Please let me know if there is anything I came do to help on this effort. I don't have a lot of free time, but I consider this guide indespensable, so would love to help.

For BtS you should have a look at

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=236346

It is really nice (and your wife will consider it being part of the box)

For BtS you should have a look at

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=236346

It is really nice (and your wife will consider it being part of the box)

I have looked at it and you are right, it is very professional looking and gorgeous. The author spent a lot of hard work and truly deserves a :goodjob:

It just doesn't fit my needs, though. I'm looking for something that I can print out and quickly find the information I need. This thing is a massive amount of pages and in color. I don't have access to a color printer that can print it efficiently. I tried printing the 'booklet' version at the office, but couldn't get the page flipping to work right. Since, this isn't exactly 'work related' ;) I had to give up.

That is why I am sooooo looking forward to Michelangelo's updates to this guide. It is concise and to the point. It has all the information about 'Units' or 'Buildings' or 'Wonders' (the three that I use most, btw) each on a single page. This helps me quickly make my decisions. The excel format means that it is easily customizable and searchable.

I have looked at it and you are right, it is very professional looking and gorgeous. The author spent a lot of hard work and truly deserves a :goodjob:

It just doesn't fit my needs, though. I'm looking for something that I can print out and quickly find the information I need. This thing is a massive amount of pages and in color. I don't have access to a color printer that can print it efficiently. I tried printing the 'booklet' version at the office, but couldn't get the page flipping to work right. Since, this isn't exactly 'work related' ;) I had to give up.

That is why I am sooooo looking forward to Michelangelo's updates to this guide. It is concise and to the point. It has all the information about 'Units' or 'Buildings' or 'Wonders' (the three that I use most, btw) each on a single page. This helps me quickly make my decisions. The excel format means that it is easily customizable and searchable.

Hmm - I had no problem printing the booklet version on a black and white printer. But as long as nobody else is updating the sheets here I use the BtS reference. :D

I tried printing the 'booklet' version at the office, but couldn't get the page flipping to work right.

Try using duplex with "Flip on short edge" checked, if your printer supports it. That should do the trick.

For those without Excel, you may find you can use this guide reasonably well with the free (as in beer) OpenOffice.org calc. I don't know if all the macros work, however, OpenOffice.org calc does appear to recognize them.

You can get OpenOffice.org from many popular download sites.

Hey people,

Sorry to be so silent last couple of months, but a serious illness of my mother, from which in the end she didn't recover, occupied me most of the time. I've mentioned RL-stuff taking over but I thought all you patiently waiting people deserve to know the reason for it. During most of the time I thought her situation would stabalize and I could find some time to finish it. With hindsight I should have asked for help from you guys to help finish the last couple of pages.

I plan on finishing this in the christmas hollidays, I just need a couple of pages to work through.

So see you soon.

Hey Michelangelo – I'm so sorry to hear about your mother. My deepest condolences. Don't worry about the delay with the charts – being with family is always more important.
I'll certainly say a prayer for your whole family.

My best wishes to all of you.

Hai Michelangelo,

My condolences for the loss of your mother.

Although you only need to do a few last pages, do you need a hand?
Excel has few mysteries for me, I have the complete Civ4 version and I wouldn't mind to do some reviewing.

:coffee: Hey Michelangelo, you still around good sir?

If you've lost motivation to finish this project (totally understandable) would you consider releasing the work you have already done so that someone else could finish it?

Thanks so much! :hatsoff:

@ Michelangelo

I would be more than willing to try to help. I have a pretty good understanding of excel and a fair understanding of BTS. If you need help, just let me know.

@General W
You're right that I had lost some interest, or to say it more accurately had my interests somewhere else. But these sheets kept hovering in the back of my mind. Someday they have to get finished. So you're friendly reminder moved it up to where I'm working on it again. I'll try to finish it now for real or I'll post it "as is" here in this forum for someone else to finish.

Last week I even played a game of civ again after a 6 months gap. :)

@Morpheus, you're offer is very kind :thanx: and if you don't mind I would like to ask you to do some bughunting when I finish it. That would help a great deal, as I haven't that much experience with actually playing BTS. ;)