Oracle Rush depends too much on luck, Failure = GG

The Main Aim of Oracle Rush is to get the Code of Laws within 1 turn instead of 13 turns, thereby getting a technological edge.

All the following factors come into play

1) Availability of Marble

2) Whether other players are using Leaders with the Industrious Trait

3) Availability of Forests

4) Whether you have researched Writing.
Oracle Rush fails if you build the Oracle too fast.

5) Size of Map + Your neighbour is an Aggressor, Warmonger, Pillager

Failure will lead to the following situation

1) You're weakened (Economically, Technologically, Military-wise) for the next 13 turns.

2) You end up as a permanent target for Pillaging.

Code of laws isn't the only possible target of an Oracle rush, Theology isn't bad either. Why do you refer to 13 turns specifically? It's going to be far from constant, so that can go in as a factor for whether the Oracle's worth building as well.

The failure of any strategy leads to a worse situation. This is a normal "real life" fact - those who fail do not survive.

Having said that, you do give a good list of factors to consider when deciding whether to go for an "oracle rush".

If you can analyse your situation to address these factors, you can weigh them against the risks involved, and arrive at a conclusion whether you really should go ahead with this strategy.

Your claim that it requires too much luck simply indicates that your analysis is not that good yet. :)

Mind you, your consequences of failure I'm not convinced about. If you fail to get the oracle, you get some cash, which can keep you going for a while at 100% science, or upgrade a key defensive unit. Yes, still not as good as getting a wonder, a tech and a religion, but not the end of the world exactly.

I don't see how failing to get one wonder will ruin your game.

All building the wonder does is net you a free tech (plus some culture for the building, of course). So you exchange production for extra research, with the amount depending on what tech you choose.

Strategically, it lets you jump ahead briefly tech wise, to nab a tech that gives a bonus. But it won't equate into a permanent tech lead - it's a one-time bonus. That, and anyone you beat to the wonder will be rewarded with cash (which means you converted production to shields, which can then be converted to research, though likely at a much lower rate).

You could almost get the same effect by taking workers off high-production/no-food spots and making them science specialists (with the added bonus of great person points), or by taking a great person and having them do research (i.e. a prophet for Theology).

Grabbing the oracle can be a boon, and help a winning civ stay ahead, but I doubt it will make that civ permanently stay ahead. I've always found it nice to grab, but have *somehow* managed to still win those times I didn't get it.

I just don't see it as a make-or-break strategy.

If you fail, at least you still get the cash to research CoL in the red.

If everyone tries for Oracle, it does rely on luck and is not very good.

If no one tries for Oracle, the person who finally builds it can get a tech like Feudalism!

Yep, exactly, you're exactly right. Oracle rush is a terrible strategy, don't ever use it. And don't worry about that huge marble structure in my capital, it's just a new bathhouse ;)

I've never had trouble getting the Oracle very quickly through chopping, or making my city a production super city. The AI usually ignores the Oracle anyways, and this makes it so easy to get it.

Actually now that I think about it there hasn't been a single game I've played were I haven't gotten the oracle, even on the higher difficulty levels, so why the panic? If you can't get it then you're probably playing poorly anyways, since it's one of the easiest--next to stonehenge--early wonders to get.

It seems to be rather hit or miss in my games. I've had an AI build the Oracle before I had even gotten Priesthood (although admittedly I wasn't making a bee-line for it) and I've had games where I built the Oracle very late and got a pretty high level tech (Civil Service) from it. I think the AI's tend to use the same sort of decision making most of us use, i.e. access to marble, when deciding whether or not to build it. And while it's depressing to miss a wonder by 1 turn, getting enough gold back to run at 100% research for the next several turns usually cheers me up.

I seem to get Stonehenge and Oracle everytime without really trying too hard. Parthenon really only when I try hard.

Here are the easy ones:

METAL CASTING: forges, collosus.
CODE OF LAWS: courthouses, chichen itza, caste system, confucianism.

But if you gun it for the oracle properly, with an industrious trait, on all but the highest difficulties, you can grab...

CIVIL SERVICE: bureaucracy.
FEUDALISM: vassalage, serfdom, longbows.
MACHINERY: crossbows.

Getting any one of those technologies with the oracle (basically around 1000 BC) will win you the game. Bureaucracy makes your capitol into a super city before any other civilization comes close. Longbows will give you solid defence early. Crossbows will give you solid OFFENSE early. THE POWER!

You don't need marble to Oracle rush. It only costs like $2.50 to make. Helps to have a capital with trees/rivers/hills for the sheild boost ...

The path I've been following is to go Warrior, Warrior, Warrior, Worker, Settler,
Stonehenge, Oracle to rush Theology. You can't fight ancient wars doing this (as was discussed in another thread) but it sure does get you a Medieval tech, 2 wonders, and Theology civic to prevent religion aggro and give your army experience.

. . . will give you solid OFFENSE early. THE POWER!

/rofl :)

If you already have Stonehenge, why waste the Oracle on Theology when you can just use your first Prophet?

My first prophet won't make Theology ... he'll make Meditation. When I rush Theology I can use my Prophet to make the Church of the Nativity and auto-spread Christianity. That's how I've been doing it, anyway.

Meditation's cheap. Why waste a Great Prophet on it?

Although nihil8r could research meditation and use the prophet to discover Theology, I think discovering Theology with The Oracle and building a shrine with the prophet makes sense.

I've tried both ways, and found that building a shrine earlier makes a big difference in the dominance of that religion.

Mind you, I'm still trying to found six religions on immortal, so I don't do that myself; but if victory, not some crazy religion quest, is your goal, the first great prophet is best used for a shrine.

Sometimes I do use that great prophet from the oracle (or stonehenge) to found a religion. But sometimes it just makes more sense to spread an existing religion.

If you time the oracle right, you won't just get a 15-20 turn technology, but a 30-40 turn technology. That's huge.

A wise strategist always plans for his strategies to fail; and plans a back-up plan for his back-up plans. Any strategy that was not built to adapt, is doomed to fail under any circumstance.

i always assumed plan c is the on the fly one

with industrial trait, specificly Qin shi huang, starts with mining and agriculture
i start with worker -> stonehenge/warrior ->warrior -> settler -> oracle
stonehenge/warrior means, i sometime get warrior first then stonehenge or other way around.
techs goes like
bornze working -> mysticism -> wheel -> fishing or hunting) -> polytheism -> priesthood -> writing -> masonary

why polytheism not meditation? because it allows me to build perthenon, while meditation doesnt allow any wonder.
if i have marble, i'll do masonary first.

i tend to get 4 wonders in 2 cities early, and a religion usually in second city.

I'm not seeing it game breaking on Monarch.

I started a new game last night (Roosevelt-Industrious, Monarch) and wound up missing both Stonehenge and the Oracle. I was going for Code of Laws. Since founding a religion is not really my concern (mainly want courthouses and caste system), my only chance for that was obviously denied. I had gone Bronze Working, but there was none nearby and had to quickly get Archery, as I was already at war with my neighbor (Japan) for stealing his worker. So, I had a late start on Oracle prereqs.

By the way, I thought the Oracle was mine. I didn't see a message that it was build somewhere else. I just got the coin the turn I should have gotten my free tech!

There were 3 other civs on my continent Japan right next to me, Ceasar and Frederick on the other side. None of them founded a religion either. Also, I had no pre-calendar luxuries. So, with no temples or luxuries, I had to desperately research Monarchy to grow past 5 (which, by the way, was probably largely funded with my Oracle cash booby prize) .

So far, I'm in the Middle Ages now, I've wiped out Japan, and I have 10 cities. I have no Wonders (good game Industrious) and I'm in bitter war with Rome *and* Germany. It turns out Isabella is most likely to have founded the majority of religions. She is on the other continent with Alexandar.

On the scorechart, fairly close scores:

#1 Spain
#2 Germany
#3 Me
#4 Greece
#5 Rome (I'm working on eliminating this jerk atm)

Unless someone like Saladin or Gandhi is hiding with a super high score, I think I'm doing just fine, even though I completely missed out on the Oracle. I'm pals with Greece for tech trading, with open borders, and I give nothing to Isabella, as she's in the lead. She's just about furious for denying her demands. She is the only one ahead of me on techs (that I know of), but her score is not through the roof, so I'm probably ok. I seriously doubt this game is broken, so far.

If there are trees around, I'll get stonehenge and oracle easily. Chop chop! By the time I'm ready to build oracle my capital's borders will usually have expanded beyond the fat cross so I'll usually have extra trees to use.

Beyond that it's probably a matter of luck and I may or may not go for the oracle. I don't really consider failure to get it a big deal (definitely not "GG") as extra gold is a boon to me early on, since that'll let me run 100% in the red longer and I might even build an extra early city if I get enough early gold.

with industrial trait, specificly Qin shi huang, starts with mining and agriculture
i start with worker -> stonehenge/warrior ->warrior -> settler -> oracle
stonehenge/warrior means, i sometime get warrior first then stonehenge or other way around.
techs goes like
bornze working -> mysticism -> wheel -> fishing or hunting) -> polytheism -> priesthood -> writing -> masonary

i tend to get 4 wonders in 2 cities early, and a religion usually in second city.

With Qin, I almost always concentrate on getting metal casting. Early Cho Ko Nu's can take a bite out of anyone. Usually you get them too late for defense versus prats, but if you get them early, a couple of them with extra first strike will do a good bit of damage to that stack of prats, and have ole caeser peeing in his toga. Which is good because I always seem to start close to caeser and Kublai, with monty lingering in the wings. and ghandi is always 2000000 miles away. and they are ALWAYS in my games. i usually play 12 civ games so shouldn't they be excluded 1/3 of the time? anyways that is off topic