The easy choice is no barbarians.
After that i think next easiest is to load up on passive builder tech AIs. My list currently is
gandhi
cyrus
mao
saladin
mansa

5 civs. My theory is i want tech traders. The object isnt to beat the computer by a bunch. The problem is they suck ive already started running away from them at 800ad.

Map choice is a bit harder.i went with "balanced" just cause i didnt know what that was. I think im going continents next attempt. What i want is a nice continent right next to another continent all by myself.

Im not sure if "balanced" caused it but i wasnt happy with my resource starts. On the plus side though i started with insane woods to chop and incredible river squares. So im playing it.

My resources suck but my pop at 820AD is 6x the computers average so we shall see. I need to start writing down bench marks so i can see when im blasting off relative to my all time highs or just relative to the AI in this game. As it is though im certainly on pace to beat my best. Though that was automatic with no barbarians to slow down early growth.

Then of course the hardest choice is what civ to take yourself. Gandhi is the obvious choice. I went with bismark because it was what i knew.

Anyone feeding all the AIs techs in order to keep them up to you for trading. I been pondering that but dont want to risk the military advantages i might give up and risk invasions.

highlands as map is a good choice for hills, and production

I think a fast spaceship is less about production and more about tech rate. Certainly their is room for production but most of the time is spent waiting to produce and that waiting to produce time is tech rate.

First attempt for me ended up 1732 with a 32kish score. Not bad i think but if that was a first attempt one supposes someone that puts real effort into it will be dealing with atleast a 100 years less?

Someone declared war on me right when i was going into spaceship production mode. That cost me about 8 turns or so i think. But the real gain will be in tech rates.

but u do need a few producting city when you have the techs, or they are taking too long to build.
towns + universal sufferage is not enough production.
more production also means more research, its easier to build library, university etc.
also more population, with granary, lighthouse etc.

my first game ended in late 1800s.
a pleased neightbour backstab me while i was building space ship.
it was on custom continent map.

I went with barbs off and friendly AI's as well. Barbs wouldn't be needed as I was going to be peaceful, at least see how that worked first. Went with Elisabeth because she really is one for the tech race.

Map was Great Plains, where there are a lot of cows and rivers and flood plains, but little wood and hills. So basically I have awesome tech, or should have, and rather low production. Atm its 1680 and I am 2 turns from getting rocketry, thus apollo program, but I don't even have an engineer saved up for it. Used my last one on taj mahal and didn't get new ones even though 90% probability on one occasion :(

Atm Gandhi is catching up on my tech level, and he is ahead of me in score. I have arguably been too passive and should have both expanded faster and maybe killed off one neighboor. I intend to do both, but as I have never before gone after a space victory I was not entirely sure what would be the best strategy for achieving it. I am not satisfied with my tech rate even though most of my 10 cities all have at least 4 towns cranking out beakers, and science techs / buildings have been a priority. I even got the great library and had 5-6 great scientists all making academies. Obviously I simply need more cities.

Also the great plains might not be such a good idea as it first seemed, as the resources are very concentrated in areas of the map, meaning I lose out on a lot of happy and health resources, severely limiting my growth that is also suffering from no early state religion + flood plains. I am probably going to try great plains again with the exp/fin american, for the added health, and once with romans maybe, or some other good early uu civ.

Atm its 1680 and I am 2 turns from getting rocketry, thus apollo program, but I don't even have an engineer saved up for it. Used my last one on taj mahal and didn't get new ones even though 90% probability on one occasion

You can't rush the apollo program.

Think next run will be:
gandhi
cyrus
saladin
mansa

Mao was the only person to attack in the 1734 game so ill take him out. Ill definatly get around to trying a highland game.

My next civ choice will be "qin shin hung" Never heard of him before but i want to try with financial and industrious.

i tried a game with 6 spiritual trait AI, yes im crazy lol, basicly, i want AI to fight each other(spiritual AI cares religion very much, and very love to found and use their own religion, so there is alot of fights).
when they are fighting with each other i'll steal their cities. and none of the AI trusted me
asoka
saladin
isabella
montezuma
hatty
mansa musa
roosevelt

A: please join us and wipe out C
me: uh no
A: you foolish person
B: A need to die, can i count you in?
me: mmmm no.
B: u should choose your side carefully
C: B is ploting against us, we need your help
me: never!

roosvelt becomes very aggressive, building lots of troops, declared war on aztec and killed montezuma,(wtf? montezuma has aggresive trait!!)

also i plays qin shi huang, i thought industrial for building wonder and financial for getting science works great. but it didnt work that well, early conquest left me science at 40%. an organised trait might be good.
and thus washington could be good (fin/org), but american UU cames too late to be useful, i think i'll stick with qin shi huang.

also, a very good map recommending everyone for space race, and early conquest.

team battleground, lol, u dont need teams to play that map.
use left vs right setting, you will have a thin ocean seperating 2 landmasses, like a river, but cant cross without galleon.
each landmass will corrospond to how many civs present on them, if 4 civs on land A, and 4 civs on land B, then land A will be bigger than land B.

with this map setup, go for early conquest, and control the whole land yourself, while never have to worry about domination victory, because your land will not exceed 50% total land.
you can peacefully develope your paradise before galleons appear.
the AIs on other land are usually competitive when you first met them (when you are recovering from conquest)
you dont need mass troops later, only a few guarding coastal cities, and few destroyer roaming around.
attacks from other land can easily be dealt with, by sinking their landing ship.

keep in mind team battleground map is extra small.

I'm playing pangaea map as Elizabeth. I chose my 4 opponents (Mansa Musa, Gandhi, Mao Zedong and Louis XIV). I turned barbarians off and was pleased to see that the tribal villages were still there. I found being able to turn barbarians off was very unbalancing as I sent out settler after settler without any military. I had 4 cities with only 1 warrior as my entire military still. I didn't need garrison for happiness yet. I chose tropical climate because a lot of jungles = a lot of grasslands for cottages.

I got two techs from huts, the only two huts I popped. Unfortunatey I had no scout and 3 out of 4 of my opponents did so they gobbled them all up. But I got Bronze Working and I think Mysticism as my free techs.

Anyway I went rather wonder heavy in this game. I built the parthenon first. I missed the Oracle by 2 turns. I built the Pyramids in like 250AD, though. Those are two very expensive wonders is why I consider it a wonder heavy start even though I just got those two. I did a lot of chopping since I had a lot of forests in my starting area. I was south of the jungle.

I managed to found Hinduism despite researching about 6 other techs first. I really think only 4 opponents is too easy in some ways. Overall I'm not sure if my tech pace is great or not or if I expanded too fast or too slow. Only time will tell. I'm currently researching Education. For great people I've gotten 2 prophets (Hinduism and Confucian shrines) and 2 artists (one discovered literature for me and the other culture bombed a city that was in a great location but Mansa had founded a city of his own 3 tiles away that ended up being his holy city later on).

Overall the AI relations have been finicky. Despite Gandhi's peaceful ways he tends to piss people off a lot. Right now I'm in good relations with Gandhi, Mansa, and Mao, while Louis doesn't like me.

If I redid the game I would change Mao to someone else. Mao researches really quickly but he's very stingy about tech trading. He generally won't trade you any techs unless he's had it for 100 turns.

:king: I have choosen Saladin philosophical and spiritual. all my opponent will not be spiritual so I can lock down all the religions and spread my state religion across the world unhindered and pick who I will be on good terms with and try to sucker the leading AI into wars with each other.

I am planning to generate great people to get as many golden eras as possible and to speed my climb through the tech tree :goodjob:

hrmm. there is a little to production. I got to apollo program in 1500AD. Problem is my best city has 16 production and needs 160 turns. I think next time i go to democracy then factories then rocketry. Going straight to rocketry is a waste of time without universal sufferage and factories.

I stumbled at the start and didnt get pyramids this time.

Going to see if i can salvage this after a test tomorrow.

AND wtf. i set everything up. Biggest difference was low sea level (i was thinking lots of land on a standard map). However twice it didnt give me the AI civs i wanted. I didnt notice this time because only one was different. Ghandi was replaced by montezuma. I think i ran into a bug since it happened twice in a row.

I think a fast spaceship is less about production and more about tech rate. Certainly their is room for production but most of the time is spent waiting to produce and that waiting to produce time is tech rate.

First attempt for me ended up 1732 with a 32kish score. Not bad i think but if that was a first attempt one supposes someone that puts real effort into it will be dealing with atleast a 100 years less?

Someone declared war on me right when i was going into spaceship production mode. That cost me about 8 turns or so i think. But the real gain will be in tech rates.
I got a launch in 1752 on first try w/ 34K score. Yah, probably a launch date of <1650 is what to shoot for. I had my tech at like 90% almost the whole game too, couldn't get up to 100% so wasn't very efficient.

I gifted every single one of my techs to the AIs for the longest time trying to get some sort of sharing going on but it never happened. Next time I'll probably just trade them techs for gold and not gift any as it didn't help me at all.

I played the most ridiculous pangea map with peter. I was on a very long river with around 12 flood plains along the river. I had both stone and marble in 1 expansion distance. -4 health hurt only a little with expansive, but I was just 2 turns too late in second wave of expansion. I got boxed in with only 4 cities and had conquer one civ to fully expand. Still pulled off 1804 but man I was sure it was a 1700 map with insanely good number of resources.

ok second attempt was far worse then the first. Production was the suck. In my defence though i couldnt make railroads cause i didnt have coal and i was so far ahead of the AIs (rocketry in 1500AD go china!) i would have to give them all tons of techs to catch them up to coal. No coal == no railroads.

Think im just going to start over if i dont get pyramids in the future. Its so early there is no point in playing at a disadvantage. I want universal sufferage available without wasting time on democracy until when im good and ready.

Also a major strategic mistake was purposely using ocean cities when i didnt have too. Those were great early however as i wanted shields they sucked hard. In my first game almost all my cities were entirely land based on rivers and ocean cities were an afterthought. This reacted extremely well with universal sufferage.

Also i dont think rocketry is the first goal. Robotics is the first goal.

Also i figured out what my "bug" was. It was me not turning off the AI option and getting random civs left over. I guess gandhi is somewhere on my map~


Im not sure if "low sea level" is good. Im worried it introduces more deserts. It certainly seems to give more usuable space. I spread out the same as i always do and i was 4th in land. ... which is crazy cause im normally double. Ill prolly just try highlands next.

Played a team battleground game through, ended up with a launch in 1828, which is none to great. I had, awesome tech rate, or I would like to believe. with most of my cities running 10+ towns with 100% tech rate most of the game. I am fairly certain I could have chopped at least 50 turns simply by setting different research paths though, as it was I had rocketry before factories and space elevator was finished when I only lacked 2 modules. I am so definately going for factories earlier next time, saving up a great engineer for the three gorges dam, and also going for fusion early to get that engineer for the space elevator. Also going to pump a lot more workers in my next game, although I never saw any city short of more than 1-2 developed squares in the worst scenarios. Them railroads are important though.

why going robotic first than rocketry?
i always go for plastic, it allows me to build 3 gorge dam.
mistake i made is that i automated workers, i guess i will have to spend more times

I'm stunned at all the people getting launches pre-1800 on Epic level production.


I managed 1844; I thought that was great, but I guess I'll have to go back and retry.

I think my next game im going for two specialized production cities. All farms and production. With the rest having a growth/cottage focus.

Generally speaking i never think about specialization. As I never need to produce any one thing that fast. However i think its a refinement in this case to be able to handle apollo and that wonder that gives +50% to spaceship production at the same time and in a timely manner. The two will earn their keep as wonder factories prespaceage. I was really hurting for a big fast production house in this last game.

As far as tech. Ive refined a bit there too. I made a huge blunder of not going for industrialism (alum) before spaceship stuff. Thats a complete waste. Without aluminum you aint building anything fast anyway. After that its factories and power asap to get ramped up. (before that it will be railroads) (no need for democracy because im restarting on a fresh game if i dont get pyramids). I like an early biology too for the farm bonus.

After that its robotics then rocketry.

As far as time goes I think between 1734 and 1600 there is only 34 turns. So either there will be alot of slight improvements that look much faster then they are. Or there will be a submission that looks like a total blow out due to pre1700 turns being 5 years long.

I suspect because the 2 year turns start at 1700 there will be alot of wins in that neighborhood with maybe a couple standing out in the pre 2year turn phase.

Is getting space elevator worth it? I assume it's additive with the other production bonuses. With forge, factory, power plant, laboratory, 50% on top of already 125% is not much. My capital (50% bureacracy and around 20 great people) and my ironwork production city are cranking out a casing every 3-4 turns. Space elevator takes something like more than three time the hammers compare to a casing.

alright math 425a intro to analysis final over. time for attempt #3!

I took a walk through the AI xmls. Just a quick glance. A couple of my civ choices were bad.

Using base attitude criteria of 1 or more. And base peace weight criteria of 9 or more. I choose these 4 which all have those characteristics:

Mansa
Hatshepsut
Elizabeth
Ghandi

Going to stuff them on a pangua. Though i didnt get into a detailed analysis and elizabeth might have other stats i should be concerned about. I should replace her with cyrus which im certain has never declared war on me without me provoking him first.

As far as time goes I think between 1734 and 1600 there is only 34 turns. So either there will be alot of slight improvements that look much faster then they are. Or there will be a submission that looks like a total blow out due to pre1700 turns being 5 years long.

I suspect because the 2 year turns start at 1700 there will be alot of wins in that neighborhood with maybe a couple standing out in the pre 2year turn phase.
2 year turns actually start at 1650, before that it's the 5 year turns.

Just finished my second (well, that I didn't give up on) where I launched in 1682 for a 35200 score.

I've used Cyrus, Hathepsut, Asoka, and Mansa Munsa in both of my games. One of the reasons is that none of them have the IND trait, which is why I wouldn't include someone like Gandhi. This last game I just ended in 1682, my cities were still defended by Archers. Everyone has ended up loving each other at the end both games... hell, I signed defensive pacts with three of them in the first game.

Oh, I also use the Lakes map. I think that's probably the best? Any map with ocean tiles is basically wasting space.

Nice. 3rd choice was the "balanced" option. i have no clue what that is but im digging the maps. Guess ill try lakes next.

Do you grow your city before chopping? I been chop rushing workers and settlers on city size 1. Only when there are no trees left near by do i send a worker back in and let the city grow with the workers help.

Though in normal play i cant rush this fast cause of defence concerns so i usually let the city grow.

Darn you people and all your free time. :mad: I'm barely halfway through my first attempt. :)

i guess custom continent with 1 continent per team is good.
so u have an entire continent, and landsize is huge compared to team battleground.

also u can get really good coastal city, with lighthouse, you dont even need any farms, just cottages on flat land, and mines on hills, while fishes feeds your people.

I would use a Financial leader with all Financial opponents. This should help any fast victory condition.

I tried again with bismarck. 1740AD And i sooooo bobbled the ending. I thought i had a real shot at besting the fast one on here. And then when that didnt work i was sure i was going to best my best. But then when i thought i was done i still had one more to go

Techs went basically:
economics->railroads->biology->industrialism->rocketry->robotics->the rest

I had such a pretty run. I had all my factories built and rocketry done at 1610 and started in on apollo with 25 turns i think at 1610.

Someone said they thought space elevator wasnt worth it. Im not sure it was close. I was annoyed that most of the spaceship was built before the space elevator was done.

What cost me though was i had all my production cities waiting around for components. I needed to sprint for research starting i think at 1600.

I also bobbled my ending with great engineers. I didnt convert to a super citizen cause i was waiting for a golden age. and then i didnt want to wait any more so i made a super citizen then got another one~


Fixes. When you start in on spaceship mode stop developing in satelite cities and convert to wealth if your not at 100% research or research if you are. I was developing far to late for to little gain.

oh PS. for civ choices. I used:
Cyrus
Hatshepsut
Elizabeth
Ghandi

The only reason i mention is those 4 didnt have a single AI war the entire game.

oh PS. for civ choices. I used:
Cyrus
Hatshepsut
Elizabeth
Ghandi

The only reason i mention is those 4 didnt have a single AI war the entire game.
I just finished another game.... this is pretty fun. Still trying to beat that 1650 barrier.

This time I finished in 1672, 5 turns earlier than before - got a 39841 score. Production was the hangup this time rather than my tech as before. I had almost finished researching Future Tech 2 by the time I finally won.

I played with the same four again (cyrus, hatty, asoka, and mansa munsa), no wars as usual (this time I had Axemen instead of Archers at the end!) - also had defensive pacts with all but Asoka. Lakes map again. I'm fairly certain this is the best map as the lake tiles are quite good (esp w/ a financial leader, such as Qin), plus there are just a load of goody huts.

you been feeding the AI?

Tomorrows game im feeding the AI. Every tech i get that cant be traded ill give to the AI. I been running away from the AI and reluctant to trade cause of fear. However its clear im going to have to run a gambit if i want to come up with your numbers. With the AI caught up to me the whole game if it doesnt attack that should gain me quite a bit in tech trades.

Finished my second try just now, ending up at 1748. Played on Great Plains again, with Qin against four Washingtons. I figured their financial would help me get more of their techs, maybe it did, but in the end I had modern armor before they had cavalry. I didn't wage a single war, and neither did any of the washingtons, though I captured a city by culture. Maybe, as mentioned above, feeding the AI is the easiest way when they prove they can stick around for 5700+ years not ever declaring a war.

I had cities doing 140 and 100 production, before the lab / elevator / aluminium bonus taken into account, and several around 80, and just started on future tech 1 when I finally won. I was down at 60% research early when expanding, but managed to get it back at 100 for the better part of the game. I could have used more cities for research earlier I guess, but that would have meant a war, and I am not sure I would be able to get away with that, development and science wise.

Going to give it a few more tries, to see if I can compete with the times shown here in any reasonable way.

double post, sry.

Finished my second try just now, ending up at 1748. Played on Great Plains again, with Qin against four Washingtons.Just a fyi, a new rule is that you can't do this.
You may select who your opponents are. The selection must not include any leader multiple times.

Just finished my game. Launched in 1710 with a score of 38795. I made quite a few mistakes including getting one of my cities captured by Mansa Musa, although I got it back from him. Mostly my empire was not big enough. I don't think peaceful expansion is enough. Even with only 4 opponents you need to take over 1 AI's lands. I was researching at 100% and making profit for the last 50 or more turns of the game. I could have afforded to have quite a few more cities. Unlike Zevus the AI's in my game couldn't stand each other most of the game. Each AI had 2 different AI enemies. So I either had to piss them all off or only befriend one of them. I ended up just pissing them all off but pissing off one AI more than the others since he was the least liked. But it would have been a lot easier if they got along. Also, Mao and Ghandi are kind of stingy with trading techs. Mansa gives them up almost as soon as he researches them, but Mansa had the smallest territory in my game so he wasn't able to research quickly like he usually does.

It seems that launch dates are much sooner on epic speed. I've done a couple quick launches on normal speed noble difficulty and the best date I got was 1845AD. Compared to 1710AD that's quite a difference.

I think my next game im going for two specialized production cities. All farms and production. With the rest having a growth/cottage focus.

He means two cities that have farms and production in each cities. Right?

He doesn't mean a city with just farms and a city with just production does he? I am supposing that because what would be the point of a city with just farms? Cities don't share food.

If you want a production city, why all the farms? Wouldn't windmills and workshops be better. As long as you can support a population of 9 or 10 are the extra farms for specialists?

farms can get your city more population, so you can get engineer specialist.
because hills generally have less food, you need more farms to support them, if u want them to be worked.
with with engineer specialist, u can get great engineer easier.

damn i want a phi/ind trait lol

my next game will definatly be feeding AI with techs now.
techs for their gold sum. so i can rush stuff.

i'll try to get 2 religion, so my people will not hate me when i switch to universal sufferage from representation, and free religion.

also kremlin early, and as soon as i get kremlin, i think im switching to universal sufferage.

also, do u people switch to beaurocracy when you starts ss parts?

Launched in 1738AD, my first ever space win. The movie was disappointing.

It was Elizabeth (me) vs. Cyrus, Mansa, Victoria, and Washington. There was no fighting the entire game. I only built 9 good cities, which is definitely not enough. I never founded or captured a holy city, which really hurt my cash flow. I hovered around 80-90% research in the endgame.

My national wonder placement was awful, but I learned how to do it better next time.

im actually not sure of the all farms and hills theory. Its fine if you have the hills. However i forgot about universal sufferage.

todays attempt was 1672 with bismarck--tie game (atleast on this thread).

Sucks. Rocks getting that close. Sucks knowing you tied by a turn lol.

And i bobbled the ending! I made a ton of the spaceship without labs. I went to democracy-> industrialism-> biology->rocketry. I had appollo *launched* on 1500ad.

The big strat change this time was feeding techs to the AI. Thats important. But other then that i realize now you need to have atleast one banked great person cause when your the first to get fusion you get a free great person and you can start a golden age to finish it off.

Also it will help if you can buy laboratories.

I thought that chopping forests might help reduce the time between researching the last tech and launching. But apparently I only get a +100% bonus (90 shields) for chopping, when my city has a +450% bonus on normal production. So it takes a LOT of forests to reduce the date by even 1 turn.

1724 finish.
the game is BUGGED, i cant build space elevator, i saved 2 great engineer from the beginning of the game, i didnt use them. after i research robotic, i have no option to build it gahhhh!!!! cmon, my great engineer from ancient age wants to build the space elevator!!

that should at least shorten my time by 10-20 turns

also, my ironwork production city's territory got eaten by maliness capital! i have to put 2 great artist to get back 2 squares.

my capital is on 22 population by 900AD

my strategy is capital as wonder gallery, i built all useful wonders in there.
my capital is next to river, with 3 hills. mined the hills, farmed the riversides. no cottages.
untill civil service, i can spread farms, so i made rest of the land in capital farms, then rework all riverside farms to cottages, except 1, so other farms have irrigation.
i also built globe theatre in my capital so only healthiness is the population limiter, by the time it reaches 26, it have -6 health, but still growing, lol.

i only build 7 cities :D
2 of my cities were specialised in production, all mines and farms.

other cities are cottage happy, mixed with few farms and mines

played "great plains" map, really good map,
lots of forests no jungles(only a little at south east)
lots of river, long river
only little desert at west
only small sea at south east
lots, and i mean lots of hills in center
but lots of peaks west.
so the ideal position is center east, with access to the small ocean(with some fish resources for health)

AI setup
victoria - (why not elizabeth?, elizabeth wont trade me a thing, she goes "we just dont like you enough" when she is friendly, and "we dont want to trade this tech just yet" on horse riding, when i got tanks.)
ghandi
mansa musa - ghandi and musa loves trading tech, but its abit religious
washington - greedy man, but willing to trade things. he usually want double return in trading. and sometimes he goes "we dont want to trade this tech, we are play to win"......... i thought someone said AI dont play to win

the game is BUGGED, i cant build space elevator, i saved 2 great engineer from the beginning of the game, i didnt use them. after i research robotic, i have no option to build it gahhhh!!!! cmon, my great engineer from ancient age wants to build the space elevator!!
Only a city within 30 degrees of the equator can build the elavator. They did it on purpose, so it's more of a feature than a bug. :crazyeye:


I am having trouble figuring out how I am doing compared to some of these great dates. I would be instructive if people could post their in game dates for certain key technology points. I am not sure what all the "key" techs should be but I will give it a shot: Optics, Currency, Code of Law, Education, physics, Assembly Line, plastics, etc.

but what about flat maps?
i had all my cities near the center of the map

but what about flat maps?
i had all my cities near the center of the map
I haven't done any flat maps. Are there ice and tundra at both north and south edges?

Hmm i dont log and yes i wish i did sometimes.

Here is what i have *done* (including the 1672) which doesnt imply its best. Toss out any steps you dont feel are best.
-----------------------------------------
1) in the custom screen choose:
NO barbarians
Select these 4 civs (or your favorite):
---- cyrus
---- elizabeth
---- ghandi
---- hya (the eygptian)
turn off the rest of the random AI guys

Pick bismarck on prince as your guy. (as i say throw out what ever choice you dont think is best =)

For map pick "Balanced" and "Low Sea level"
--------------------------------------------------------
2) Starting the game.
-If your start square doesnt have trees or sucks restart the game.
-First production is a worker. First tech is bronze working.
-Go explore the map.
-Make a decision about the map right about 20 turns in it (when your worker is fixing to pop)
-----If you dont see atleast half dozen unique areas (a couple of squares of overlap is ok) on a river with a bonus food resource and atleast 1 hill -- restart. You want a perfect map. Took me about a half dozen trys to get a map for the 1672 run. On that run every city in the empire was on a river with a bonus food source and basically its own space. I think i had over a dozen cities..
-----If you dont have stone somewhere obtainable in this plan restart.
-----When spreading out remember these AIs wont attack you for just borders issues. So get all the choice land.
- Your worker popped now what? My general recipe has been to burn across the continent as a forest fire. The second unit is a chopped worker. The two workers chop a settler. They stay around the first city until nothing efficient is there to chop. Until the trees are gone the only thing the city produces is workers or settlers.
-When all the trees are gone leave 1 or 2 workers in the city to develope it and now let it grow. However carry the chain reaction to all your new cities.
-the only exception to this ive made is for obilisk in cities near AIs. Get those out early so you dont run into crimp trouble.

------------------------------------------------------
3) Early game:
DO NOT make any barracks or walls we wont be using them.
DO NOT make any military units unless there isnt anything to make OR you need them for happiness but then make your absolute cheapest.
DO concentrate on culture on a few cities if they are being crimped or might be crimped. We want them to win the culture war.
DO make a ton of cottages.
DO keep expanding until you have about a dozen great cities and alot of resources. At some point you might be way ahead of your infrastructure. In my 1672 game at one point i was at 0 research with 0 coin generated with 0 coin accumulated. How are we going to get out of that?
The recipe is this. For techs get all the infrastructure stuff but also get an early alphabet. Also remember when all those chopped workers kick in to growth mode you lay down improvements like mad.

--------------------------------------------------
4) Middle game on remember to not worry about military. Give in to all AI demands. Also you might have to abandon religion to avoid problems im not sure i might have been overly cautious there. And DONT let the AI get behind on tech. Keep gifting techs as they appear to get behind.

--------------------------------------
5) Tech choices. I cant remember my path up the entire tree but here is the ones i care about and tend to head towards
-pottery (cottages pyramids)
-writing (open borders)
-alphabet (tech trading early is huge)
-music (free great person. Use it to bomb around a contested city before that is drama which is good for culture battles)
-liberalism (free tech and important government choices use them)
-economics (usually convenient and free great person)
-democracy (democracy isnt important for universal sufferage its important because of emancipation ... remember all those cottages?
At this point your civis should look like:
universal sufferage/free speech/emancipation/free market/free religion
-railroads (shields on mines)
-industrialism (goes through important stuff and its game over if you dont have aluminum)
-biology (+1 food on farms cant be wrong)
-rocketry

I guess i should have wrote down times when i got those techs hmm. can that be had after you have played?

Oh yes they can! There is an event log in game even if you dont turn on logging! yeah~ why is there no export button. Oh well window mode to the rescue.

3160 bronze working
2600 masonry
2440 the wheel
2080 agriculture
1800 pottery
1525 animal husbandry
1350 mysticisom
1075 writing
840 completed the pyramids
700 completed stonehenge
120 BC i adopt Representation (im a moron about remembering to change after pyramids (this is also where i hit 0 and 10% research)
60 AD alphabet
80 AD complete the parthenon
240 drama
300 Literature
360 Mathematics
420 AD complete the great library
500 calender
580 philosophy
620 metal casting
680 completed hanging gardens
700 completed notre dame
710 paper
750 completed angkor wat
800 education
870 liberalism!
870 divine right (free tech
890 AD adopted free speech and universal suffrage
920 machinery
990 printing press (ghandi beat me on sistine chapel by 1 turn)
1005 civil service
1030 nationalism
1060 constitution
1095 democracy!
1100 convert to emancipation (grow villages grow!)
1110 complete taj mahal start golden age
1115 guilds
1125 banking
1135 economics
1145 completed the spiral minaret
1150 gunpowder
1165 chemistry
1180 replaceable parts
1200 steam power
1210 completed chichen itza
1220 steel
1240 railroads
1255 scientific method
1260 completed the hagia sophia
1275 biology!
1290 astronomy
1290 completed versailles
1295 completed the statue of liberty
1305 physics
1325 electricity
1340 assembly line
1365 industrialism!
1375 artillery
1400 rocketry
1425 plastics
1440 ecology!
1455 adopted environmentalism
1465 radio
1490 computers (why oh why didnt i build labs!)
1505 completed APOLLO PROGRAM (oh that is why
1520 robotics
1535 finished casing
1540 satellites
1550 completed 3 casings
1565 fiber optics
1565 completed casing
1570 completed life support
1575 refrigeration
1595 cyrus completes apollo (to give you an indication that im still feeding techs)
1610 genetics
1615 completed ss docking bay
1620 completed ss thrusters x2
1625 completed ss thrusters
1630 completed ss cockpit
1645 fusion
1652 medicine
1662 composites
1672 completed ss stasis and ss engine on the same turn

win! hopefully i didnt miss anything gl

Oh what ever tech isnt on the dates list is prolly a tech i traded for. Would be interesting to make a list but i cant at the moment.

My total army production:
21 workers
3 scouts
12 warriors
2 spearmen
The spearmen were my elite guard who protected the spaceship right up until the launch!

Ending statistics were:
GNP: 889
MFGoods: 667
Crop Yield: 355
Land Area: 447000
Population: 37,965,000

i didnt research many techs, and its good to left it out, why?
for example, do not research archery, horseback riding.
but if you got horse, chariots are so cheap to build, and build 1 chariot for every city above population 4, or they will get angry about how glorious city need some chariots to protect them in modern age.

my log
Turn 0 (4000 BC)
Beijing founded
Beijing begins: Worker
Research begun: Bronze Working

Turn 1 (3960 BC)
Tech learned: Bronze Working
Tribal village results: technology
Research begun: Hunting

Turn 9 (3640 BC)
Tech learned: Hunting

Turn 10 (3600 BC)
Research begun: Masonry

Turn 19 (3240 BC)
Beijing finishes: Worker

Turn 20 (3200 BC)
Beijing begins: Worker

Turn 22 (3120 BC)
Tribal village results: warrior
Turn 24 (3040 BC)
Contact made: American Empire
Tech learned: Masonry

Turn 25 (3000 BC)
Research begun: Mysticism

Turn 28 (2880 BC)
Beijing finishes: Worker

Turn 29 (2840 BC)
Beijing begins: Settler

Turn 34 (2640 BC)
Beijing begins: Settler
Tech learned: Mysticism

Turn 35 (2600 BC)
Research begun: The Wheel

Turn 38 (2480 BC)
Beijing finishes: Settler

Turn 39 (2440 BC)
Beijing begins: Stonehenge

Turn 41 (2360 BC)
Shanghai founded
Shanghai begins: Worker

Turn 45 (2200 BC)
Tech learned: The Wheel

Turn 46 (2160 BC)
Research begun: Pottery

Turn 47 (2120 BC)
Tech learned: Fishing
Tribal village results: technology

Turn 53 (1925 BC)
Tech learned: Pottery
Shanghai finishes: Worker

Turn 54 (1900 BC)
Research begun: Writing
Shanghai begins: Settler

Turn 64 (1650 BC)
Tech learned: Writing

Turn 65 (1625 BC)
Research begun: Animal Husbandry
Shanghai finishes: Settler

Turn 66 (1600 BC)
Shanghai begins: Settler
Beijing finishes: Stonehenge

Turn 67 (1575 BC)
Beijing begins: The Pyramids

Turn 69 (1525 BC)
Guangzhou founded
Guangzhou begins: Worker

Turn 71 (1475 BC)
Shanghai begins: Worker
Tech learned: Animal Husbandry
Shanghai finishes: Settler

Turn 72 (1450 BC)
Research begun: Polytheism

Turn 76 (1350 BC)
Nanjing founded
Nanjing begins: Worker
Shanghai finishes: Worker

Turn 77 (1325 BC)
Shanghai begins: Library
Shanghai begins: Granary

Turn 78 (1300 BC)
Tech learned: Polytheism

Turn 79 (1275 BC)
Research begun: Priesthood

Turn 81 (1225 BC)
Tech learned: Priesthood

Turn 82 (1200 BC)
Research begun: Monotheism

Turn 85 (1125 BC)
Beijing begins: The Oracle
Beijing begins: The Parthenon
(cue up)

Turn 90 (1000 BC)
Tech learned: Monotheism
Nanjing's borders expand

Turn 91 (980 BC)
Research begun: Alphabet
Beijing finishes: The Pyramids
Guangzhou finishes: Worker

Turn 92 (960 BC)
Guangzhou begins: Granary

Turn 95 (900 BC)
Beijing finishes: The Oracle

Turn 96 (880 BC)
Confucianism founded in Guangzhou
Confucianism has spread: Guangzhou
Tech learned: Code of Laws

Nanjing finishes: Worker

Turn 100 (800 BC)
Nanjing begins: Courthouse

Turn 105 (700 BC)
Shanghai begins: Settler
Beijing finishes: The Parthenon

Turn 106 (680 BC)
Beijing begins: Settler

Turn 109 (620 BC)
Imhotep (Great Engineer) born in Beijing

Turn 115 (500 BC)
Tech learned: Alphabet
Beijing finishes: Settler

Turn 116 (480 BC)
Tech learned: Archery
Research begun: Literature
Beijing begins: Library
Guangzhou finishes: Granary

Turn 117 (460 BC)
Guangzhou begins: Courthouse

Turn 120 (400 BC)
Xian founded
Xian begins: Worker

Turn 124 (320 BC)
Tech learned: Literature

Turn 125 (300 BC)
Research begun: Mathematics
Research begun: Music(beeline)
Tech learned: Iron Working
Tech learned: Sailing

Turn 128 (240 BC)
Beijing finishes: Library
Shanghai finishes: Settler

Turn 129 (220 BC)
Beijing begins: The Great Library
Shanghai begins: Library

Turn 130 (200 BC)
Moses (Great Prophet) born in Beijing

Turn 131 (180 BC)
Guangzhou finishes: Courthouse

Turn 132 (160 BC)
Guangzhou begins: Library

Turn 133 (140 BC)
Chengdu founded
Chengdu begins: Courthouse

Turn 134 (120 BC)
Guangzhou finishes: The Kong Miao
Xian's borders expand

Turn 135 (100 BC)
Tech learned: Mathematics
Confucianism has spread: Xian

Turn 136 (80 BC)
Research begun: Metal Casting

Turn 138 (40 BC)
Nanjing finishes: Courthouse

Turn 139 (20 BC)
Nanjing begins: Granary
Nanjing begins: Settler

Turn 141 (20 AD)
Beijing finishes: The Great Library

Turn 142 (40 AD)
Beijing begins: National Epic
Guangzhou finishes: Library

Turn 143 (60 AD)
Guangzhou begins: Settler
Shanghai finishes: Library


Turn 144 (80 AD)
Shanghai begins: Courthouse

Turn 148 (160 AD)
Tech learned: Metal Casting
Beijing finishes: National Epic

Turn 149 (180 AD)
Research begun: Music
Beijing begins: Forge

Turn 150 (200 AD)
Mahavira (Great Prophet) born in Beijing

Turn 152 (220 AD)
Beijing finishes: Forge

Turn 153 (230 AD)
Beijing begins: Aqueduct
Beijing begins: The Hanging Gardens
Nanjing finishes: Settler
Xian finishes: Worker

Turn 154 (240 AD)
Nanjing begins: Forge
Xian begins: Forge
Tech learned: Meditation
Tech learned: Theology

Turn 157 (270 AD)
Beijing finishes: Aqueduct

Turn 160 (300 AD)
Tech learned: Calendar
Tech learned: Monarchy
Guangzhou finishes: Settler

Turn 161 (310 AD)
Hangzhou founded
Guangzhou begins: Forge
Hangzhou begins: Courthouse
Homer (Great Artist) born in Beijing
Tech learned: Music

Turn 162 (320 AD)
Research begun: Civil Service

Turn 163 (330 AD)
Zoroaster (Great Prophet) born in Beijing

Turn 164 (340 AD)
Nanjing finishes: Forge

Turn 165 (350 AD)
Tianjin founded
Nanjing begins: Library
Tianjin begins: Courthouse

Turn 166 (360 AD)
Beijing finishes: The Hanging Gardens

Turn 167 (370 AD)
Beijing begins: Notre Dame

Turn 168 (380 AD)
Beijing finishes: Notre Dame(engineer rush)

Turn 169 (390 AD)
Beijing begins: Granary

Turn 170 (400 AD)
Beijing finishes: Granary
Shanghai finishes: Courthouse

Turn 171 (410 AD)
Beijing begins: Confucian Monastery
Shanghai begins: Forge
Nanjing finishes: Library

Turn 172 (420 AD)
Tech learned: Currency
Nanjing begins: Granary
Beijing finishes: Confucian Monastery
Guangzhou finishes: Forge

Turn 173 (430 AD)
Beijing begins: Buddhist Monastery
Guangzhou begins: Worker
Tech learned: Civil Service

Turn 174 (440 AD)
Research begun: Machinery

Turn 175 (450 AD)
Tech learned: Philosophy
Beijing finishes: Buddhist Monastery

Turn 176 (460 AD)
Beijing begins: Confucian Missionary
Xian finishes: Forge

Turn 177 (470 AD)
Xian begins: Courthouse
Beijing finishes: Confucian Missionary

Turn 178 (480 AD)
Beijing begins: Courthouse
Nanjing finishes: Granary

Turn 179 (490 AD)
Nanjing begins: Buddhist Monastery

Turn 180 (500 AD)
Beijing finishes: Courthouse
Thespis (Great Artist) born in Beijing
Guangzhou finishes: Worker

Turn 181 (510 AD)
Beijing begins: Market
Guangzhou begins: Confucian Monastery

Turn 182 (520 AD)
Tech learned: Machinery

Turn 183 (530 AD)
Research begun: Paper
Tech learned: Horseback Riding
Shanghai finishes: Forge

Turn 184 (540 AD)
Shanghai begins: Confucian Monastery

Turn 185 (550 AD)
Beijing finishes: Market

Turn 186 (560 AD)
Beijing begins: Settler
Beijing begins: Worker

Turn 187 (570 AD)
Tech learned: Paper
Beijing finishes: Worker
Guangzhou finishes: Confucian Monastery

Turn 188 (580 AD)
Research begun: Printing Press
Beijing begins: Confucian Missionary
Guangzhou begins: Market
Beijing finishes: Confucian Missionary
Nanjing finishes: Buddhist Monastery

Turn 189 (590 AD)
Beijing begins: Confucian Temple
Tianjin's borders expand

Turn 190 (600 AD)
Tech learned: Feudalism

Turn 191 (610 AD)
Beijing finishes: Confucian Temple
Shanghai finishes: Confucian Monastery

Turn 192 (620 AD)
Beijing begins: Buddhist Temple
Shanghai begins: Market

Turn 193 (630 AD)
Beijing finishes: Buddhist Temple
Chengdu finishes: Courthouse

Turn 194 (640 AD)
Chengdu begins: Granary
Nanjing begins: Market

Turn 197 (670 AD)
Xian finishes: Courthouse

Turn 198 (680 AD)
Xian begins: Forbidden Palace
Tech learned: Printing Press

Turn 199 (690 AD)
Research begun: Education
Tech learned: Construction
Archimedes (Great Engineer) born in Beijing(saved)

Turn 201 (710 AD)
Tech learned: Drama

Turn 204 (740 AD)
Guangzhou finishes: Market
Chengdu finishes: Granary

Turn 205 (750 AD)
Chengdu begins: Forge

Turn 206 (760 AD)
Hangzhou finishes: Courthouse

Turn 207 (770 AD)
Hangzhou begins: Theatre
Guangzhou begins: Theatre

Turn 208 (780 AD)
Beijing grows: 18

Turn 209 (790 AD)
Tech learned: Education

Turn 210 (800 AD)
Beijing begins: University
Research begun: Liberalism
Tech learned: Compass
Shanghai finishes: Market

Turn 211 (810 AD)
Shanghai begins: Theatre
Nanjing finishes: Market

Turn 212 (820 AD)
Nanjing begins: Theatre
Guangzhou finishes: Theatre

Turn 213 (830 AD)
Guangzhou begins: University
Tianjin finishes: Courthouse

Turn 214 (840 AD)
Tech learned: Divine Right
Tianjin begins: Theatre
Chengdu finishes: Forge

Turn 215 (850 AD)
Chengdu begins: Theatre
Xian finishes: Forbidden Palace

Turn 216 (860 AD)
Xian begins: Theatre
Beijing finishes: University
Shanghai finishes: Theatre

Turn 217 (870 AD)
Shanghai begins: University

Turn 218 (880 AD)
Tech learned: Liberalism
Chengdu finishes: Theatre

Turn 219 (890 AD)
Tech learned: Nationalism
Beijing begins: The Taj Mahal
Research begun: Engineering
Chengdu begins: Library
Tech learned: Optics
Nanjing begins: The Taj Mahal
Nanjing finishes: Theatre

Turn 220 (900 AD)
Ling Lun (Great Artist) born in Beijing
Xian finishes: Theatre

Turn 221 (910 AD)
Xian begins: Library
Xian's borders expand
Hangzhou finishes: Theatre

Turn 224 (940 AD)
Tech learned: Engineering

Turn 225 (950 AD)
Research begun: Guilds

Turn 226 (960 AD)
Chengdu finishes: Library

Turn 227 (970 AD)
Chengdu begins: University
Xian finishes: Library

Turn 228 (980 AD)
Xian begins: University

Turn 229 (990 AD)
Tech learned: Guilds
Beijing finishes: Globe Theatre
Guangzhou finishes: University

Turn 230 (1000 AD)

Research begun: Banking
Beijing begins: Grocer
Guangzhou begins: Aqueduct

Turn 232 (1010 AD)
Tianjin finishes: Theatre

Turn 233 (1015 AD)
Tianjin begins: Granary
Beijing finishes: Grocer

Turn 234 (1020 AD)
Beijing begins: The Hagia Sophia
Tech learned: Banking

Turn 235 (1025 AD)
Research begun: Economics

Turn 237 (1035 AD)
Beijing grows: 21
Guangzhou finishes: Aqueduct
Chengdu's borders expand

Turn 238 (1040 AD)
Guangzhou begins: Grocer

Turn 239 (1045 AD)
Harkuf (Great Merchant) born in Beijing
Tech learned: Economics
Chengdu finishes: University

Turn 240 (1050 AD)
Research begun: Astronomy
Chengdu begins: Grocer

Turn 241 (1055 AD)
Shanghai finishes: University

Turn 242 (1060 AD)
Shanghai begins: Grocer

Turn 243 (1065 AD)
Beijing finishes: The Hagia Sophia
Valmiki (Great Artist) born in Beijing
Hangzhou finishes: Forge

Turn 244 (1070 AD)
Beijing begins: Bank
Hangzhou begins: Library

Turn 245 (1075 AD)
Xian finishes: University

Turn 246 (1080 AD)
Xian begins: Granary

Turn 247 (1085 AD)
Beijing finishes: Bank

Turn 248 (1090 AD)
Chengdu finishes: Grocer

Turn 249 (1095 AD)
Tianjin's borders expand
Tianjin's borders expand
Chengdu begins: Aqueduct
Tech learned: Astronomy

Turn 250 (1100 AD)
Research begun: Scientific Method
Beijing begins: Observatory
Guangzhou finishes: Grocer
Xian finishes: Granary

Turn 251 (1105 AD)
Guangzhou begins: Observatory
Xian begins: Observatory
Tech learned: Gunpowder

Turn 252 (1110 AD)
Chengdu finishes: Aqueduct
Tianjin finishes: Granary

Turn 253 (1115 AD)
Chengdu begins: Observatory
Tianjin begins: Forge
Beijing finishes: Observatory

Turn 254 (1120 AD)
Shanghai's borders expand

Turn 256 (1130 AD)
Tech learned: Scientific Method

Turn 257 (1135 AD)
Research begun: Physics
Hangzhou finishes: Library

Turn 258 (1140 AD)
Hangzhou begins: University

Turn 259 (1145 AD)
Shanghai finishes: Grocer

Turn 260 (1150 AD)
Shanghai begins: Observatory

Turn 262 (1160 AD)
Guangzhou finishes: Observatory

Turn 263 (1165 AD)
Guangzhou begins: Bank
Xian finishes: Observatory

Turn 264 (1170 AD)
Xian begins: Grocer

Turn 265 (1175 AD)
Ptolemy (Great Scientist) born in Beijing
Tech learned: Physics
Golden Age begins
Nanjing finishes: The Taj Mahal

Turn 266 (1180 AD)
Beijing finishes: Academy
Research begun: Communism
Nanjing begins: Observatory
Tech learned: Replaceable Parts
Tianjin begins: Library
Tianjin begins: University
Chengdu finishes: Observatory
Hangzhou's borders expand
Tianjin finishes: Forge

Turn 267 (1185 AD)
Chengdu begins: Market

Turn 268 (1190 AD)
Li Po (Great Artist) born in Beijing

Turn 270 (1200 AD)
Guangzhou finishes: Bank

Turn 271 (1205 AD)
Tech learned: Communism
Chengdu finishes: Market

Turn 272 (1210 AD)
Research begun: Electricity
Beijing begins: The Kremlin
Research begun: Chemistry
Research begun: Biology
Xian finishes: Grocer

Turn 273 (1215 AD)
Xian begins: Aqueduct
Shanghai finishes: Observatory
Tianjin finishes: Library

Turn 274 (1220 AD)
Shanghai begins: Aqueduct
Hangzhou finishes: University

Turn 275 (1225 AD)
Hangzhou begins: Observatory
Guangzhou begins: Oxford University
Tech learned: Chemistry
Xian's borders expand
Golden Age ends

Turn 276 (1230 AD)
Tech learned: Constitution

Turn 280 (1250 AD)
Nanjing finishes: Observatory
Xian finishes: Aqueduct

Turn 281 (1255 AD)
Nanjing begins: University
Xian begins: Market
Tech learned: Biology

Turn 282 (1260 AD)
Research begun: Corporation
Research begun: Steam Power
Research begun: Assembly Line
Tech learned: Rifling
Shanghai finishes: Aqueduct

Turn 283 (1265 AD)
Shanghai begins: Bank

Turn 285 (1275 AD)
Tech learned: Corporation

Turn 287 (1285 AD)
Xian finishes: Market

Turn 288 (1290 AD)
Xian begins: Bank

Turn 290 (1300 AD)
Tech learned: Steam Power
Beijing finishes: The Kremlin
Shanghai finishes: Bank
Hypatia (Great Scientist) born in Chengdu
Islam has spread: Hangzhou
Tianjin finishes: University

Turn 291 (1305 AD)
Tianjin begins: Observatory

Turn 292 (1310 AD)
Guangzhou finishes: Academy

Turn 295 (1325 AD)
Tech learned: Democracy

Turn 298 (1340 AD)
Nanjing begins: Rifleman
Chengdu begins: Rifleman
Shanghai begins: Grenadier
Nanjing finishes: Rifleman
Chengdu finishes: Rifleman

Turn 299 (1345 AD)
Beijing begins: The Statue of Liberty
Beijing begins: The Statue of Liberty

Turn 300 (1350 AD)
Tech learned: Assembly Line
Beijing finishes: The Statue of Liberty

Turn 301 (1355 AD)
Tianjin begins: Grenadier
Chengdu begins: Factory
Beijing begins: Factory
Research begun: Electricity
Research begun: Industrialism
Beijing finishes: Factory
Shanghai finishes: Grenadier
Nanjing finishes: University
Xian finishes: Bank
Hangzhou finishes: Observatory
Tianjin finishes: Grenadier

Turn 302 (1360 AD)
Shanghai begins: Factory
Nanjing begins: Factory
Xian begins: Factory
Hangzhou begins: Factory
Guangzhou finishes: Oxford University
Chengdu finishes: Factory
Tianjin finishes: Observatory

Turn 303 (1365 AD)
Guangzhou begins: Factory
Chengdu begins: Bank
Tianjin begins: Factory
Shanghai finishes: Factory
Nanjing finishes: Factory
Chengdu's borders expand

Turn 304 (1370 AD)
Nanjing begins: Grocer
Xian finishes: Factory
Chengdu finishes: Bank

Turn 305 (1375 AD)
Nanjing finishes: Grocer

Turn 306 (1380 AD)
Nanjing begins: Bank
Tech learned: Electricity
Tianjin finishes: Factory

Turn 307 (1385 AD)
Tech learned: Steel
Tianjin begins: Ironworks

Turn 308 (1390 AD)
Guangzhou finishes: Factory

Turn 309 (1395 AD)
Nanjing finishes: Bank

Turn 310 (1400 AD)
Nanjing begins: Aqueduct

Turn 311 (1405 AD)
Nanjing finishes: Aqueduct
Hangzhou finishes: Factory

Turn 312 (1410 AD)
Nanjing begins: Broadway
Hangzhou begins: Aqueduct
Hangzhou begins: Granary
Zu Chongzhi (Great Scientist) born in Beijing

Turn 313 (1415 AD)
Shanghai finishes: Academy
Shanghai begins: Wall Street
Tech learned: Industrialism
Hangzhou finishes: Granary

Turn 314 (1420 AD)
Research begun: Artillery
Research begun: Rocketry
Hangzhou begins: Grocer
Tianjin finishes: Ironworks

Turn 315 (1425 AD)
Tianjin begins: Aqueduct

Turn 316 (1430 AD)
Research begun: Artillery
Research begun: Railroad
Research begun: Combustion
Research begun: Plastics
Tianjin finishes: Aqueduct

Turn 317 (1435 AD)
Tianjin begins: Grocer
Xian begins: Grenadier
Tech learned: Railroad
Tech learned: Artillery
Shanghai finishes: Wall Street

Turn 318 (1440 AD)
Chengdu begins: Colosseum
Xian finishes: Machine Gun

Turn 319 (1445 AD)
Chengdu finishes: Colosseum
Tianjin finishes: Grocer

Turn 320 (1450 AD)
Tianjin begins: Bank
Hangzhou finishes: Grocer

Turn 321 (1455 AD)
Hangzhou begins: Bank
Hangzhou begins: Aqueduct
Tech learned: Combustion

Turn 322 (1460 AD)
Hangzhou finishes: Aqueduct
Tianjin finishes: Bank

Turn 323 (1465 AD)
Hangzhou begins: Bank
Tianjin begins: Market

Turn 325 (1475 AD)
Nanjing finishes: Broadway
Hangzhou finishes: Bank
Tianjin finishes: Market

Turn 326 (1480 AD)
Hangzhou begins: Market

Turn 328 (1490 AD)
Tech learned: Plastics

Turn 329 (1495 AD)
Research begun: Rocketry
Chengdu begins: Confucian Temple
Guangzhou begins: Colosseum
Guangzhou begins: Confucian Temple
Nanjing begins: Buddhist Temple
Tianjin begins: The Three Gorges Dam

Turn 331 (1505 AD)
Chengdu finishes: Confucian Temple

Turn 332 (1510 AD)
Nanjing finishes: Buddhist Temple

Turn 333 (1515 AD)
Nanjing begins: Colosseum

Turn 335 (1525 AD)
Tech learned: Rocketry
Guangzhou finishes: Confucian Temple

Turn 336 (1530 AD)
Research begun: Radio
Research begun: Computers
Research begun: Robotics(beeline)

Turn 337 (1535 AD)
Nanjing finishes: Colosseum
Tianjin finishes: The Three Gorges Dam

Turn 338 (1540 AD)
Hangzhou finishes: Market

Turn 339 (1545 AD)
Hangzhou begins: Colosseum
Hangzhou begins: Infantry
Tech learned: Radio
Hangzhou finishes: Infantry

Turn 340 (1550 AD)
Beijing begins: The Eiffel Tower
Chengdu begins: Rock N Roll

Turn 344 (1570 AD)
Beijing finishes: The Eiffel Tower

Turn 346 (1580 AD)
Tech learned: Computers

Turn 347 (1585 AD)
Nanjing begins: Laboratory
Shanghai begins: Laboratory
Beijing begins: Laboratory
Xian begins: Laboratory
Hangzhou begins: Laboratory
Guangzhou begins: Laboratory
Chengdu finishes: Rock N Roll

Turn 348 (1590 AD)
Chengdu begins: Laboratory
Tech learned: Military Tradition

Turn 350 (1600 AD)
Beijing finishes: Laboratory

Turn 351 (1605 AD)
Blaise Pascal (Great Engineer) born in Beijing(saved for space elevator)

Turn 352 (1610 AD)
Xian finishes: Laboratory
Chengdu finishes: Laboratory

Turn 353 (1615 AD)
Guangzhou finishes: Laboratory
Nanjing finishes: Laboratory
Hangzhou finishes: Laboratory
Tianjin finishes: Apollo Program

Turn 354 (1620 AD)
Tianjin begins: Laboratory
Tech learned: Robotics
Shanghai finishes: Laboratory
Tianjin finishes: Laboratory

Turn 355 (1625 AD)
Research begun: Refrigeration
Research begun: Genetics
Research begun: Refrigeration
Research begun: Genetics

Turn 357 (1635 AD)
Tech learned: Flight
Tech learned: Refrigeration

Turn 358 (1640 AD)
Shanghai begins: Supermarket
Hangzhou begins: Supermarket
Beijing begins: Supermarket
Shanghai begins: Supermarket
Guangzhou begins: Supermarket
Nanjing begins: Supermarket
Xian begins: Supermarket
Chengdu begins: Supermarket
Hangzhou begins: Supermarket
Tianjin begins: Supermarket
Guangzhou finishes: Supermarket
Nanjing finishes: Supermarket
Xian finishes: Supermarket
Tianjin's borders expand
Tianjin finishes: Supermarket(lol high population health problem here, all cities are losing food)

Turn 359 (1645 AD)
Beijing finishes: Supermarket
Shanghai finishes: Supermarket
Guangzhou's borders expand
Chengdu finishes: Supermarket

Turn 360 (1650 AD)
Hangzhou finishes: Supermarket

Turn 361 (1652 AD)
Beijing finishes: SS Casing
Xian finishes: SS Casing

Turn 362 (1654 AD)
Guangzhou finishes: SS Casing
Chengdu finishes: SS Casing

Turn 363 (1656 AD)
Nanjing finishes: SS Casing

Turn 364 (1658 AD)
Tech learned: Mass Media

Turn 365 (1660 AD)
Tech learned: Genetics(cant build elevator!! great engineer wasted!!)

Turn 366 (1662 AD)
Research begun: Satellites
Tianjin finishes: SS Docking Bay

Turn 368 (1666 AD)
Tech learned: Satellites

Turn 369 (1668 AD)
Research begun: Ecology

Turn 372 (1674 AD)
Tech learned: Ecology

Turn 373 (1676 AD)
Research begun: Fiber Optics
Research begun: Fusion

Turn 376 (1682 AD)
Tech learned: Fission
Tianjin finishes: SS Thrusters

Turn 377 (1684 AD)
Tech learned: Fascism

Turn 379 (1688 AD)
Chengdu finishes: SS Thrusters

Turn 380 (1690 AD)
Xian finishes: SS Thrusters

Turn 381 (1692 AD)
Tech learned: Fiber Optics
Beijing finishes: SS Stasis Chamber
Tianjin finishes: SDI

Turn 382 (1694 AD)
Research begun: Fusion
Tianjin begins: Confucian Academy
Tianjin finishes: Confucian Academy(losing territory from maliness capital! my most productive ironwork city)

Turn 383 (1696 AD)
Tianjin begins: Hermitage
Nanjing finishes: SS Life Support

Turn 384 (1698 AD)
Tianjin finishes: Hermitage

Turn 386 (1702 AD)
Isambard Kingdom Brunel (Great Engineer) born in Beijing
Tech learned: Fusion

Turn 387 (1704 AD)
Research begun: Medicine

Turn 388 (1706 AD)
Tech learned: Medicine

Turn 389 (1708 AD)
Research begun: Composites

Turn 390 (1710 AD)
Beijing finishes: SS Cockpit
William Shakespeare (Great Artist) born in Beijing

Turn 391 (1712 AD)
Beijing begins: Hospital

Turn 393 (1716 AD)
Tech learned: Composites

Turn 394 (1718 AD)
Research begun: Future Tech
Beijing finishes: Hospital

Turn 397 (1724 AD)
Tianjin finishes: SS Engine(done)

Its interesting to note that we were very similiar in our choices up until liberalism. However after liberalism you went scientific and I went towards democracy (beeline) getting democracy in 1095. You acquired democracy in 1325. The difference is 45 turns of emancipation. Im not sure whats best but it was the most significant difference in our two post imo.

My thinking was I wanted emancipation(+100% village growth rate) to energize universal sufferage as soon as possible. Specifically I wanted every single cottage square to be giving me a +shield by the time production became critical. (not to mention the coins you get) There is obvious tech advantages to going the way you did im just noting that seemed like the biggest decision difference. Whether it meant anything im not sure because i might very well have had a bigger empire that was picking up its stride which might mean more then the democracy 45 turns sooner.

Im having great problems getting the spacerace faster than 1820 AD (30000ish points) so Im posting here for help! I have read trouot the treat but Ill like someone to summarise the optimal startup setttings in one post.

Can someone plz rundown what AI opponents are optimal and with a quicke description why?

What map is optimal? Im going for the great plain map but its damn hard to attain stone resource most of the time.

What leader should I use? Im mostly going for gandhi, going for a fast budism religion to get happines in my fast growin capital

@jeremiahrounds & @panzooka: Thanks for the timeline info. :goodjob:

I still have to compare to a couple inprocess games but it looks like I am building too much infrastructure instead of expanding early. The irony is that in trying to integrate some of the tips I have read over the last few weeks, I have been getting worse instead of better. :crazyeye:

@Drogear: take a look at jeremiahrounds' post about 3 above yours. There is a lot of good stuff about starting there.

Update:
Oh yes they can! There is an event log in game even if you dont turn on logging! yeah~ why is there no export button. Oh well window mode to the rescue.
I appreciate you taking the time to type all the information from your log. There is a utility that will export it for you:EventLog (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=141769). Thanks again.

i didnt research democracy at all. traded with ghandi
thats because my cottages are almost all towns, not because i build them early, but because i have near 20 population in all cities to work them, and i only adopted emancipation because ghandi did. before was caste system

I still have to download that eventlog utility. I just launched my ship in 1630 on today's attempt for 71763 score. I played as Mansa Musa (Spi/Fin) against Washington, Hatsepshut, Cyrus and Victoria. I used a pangaea map, low sea level, tropical climate with no barbarians.

At the start of the game I went extremely chop heavy, more so than I ever have before. I had a lot more workers than normal too. I made Timbuktu my wonder city while my 2nd city was founded near floodplains and was building all my settlers. I had that second city building settlers at size 3 for a long long time, until at least 300AD. Meanwhile Timbuktu built stonehenge, the Pyramids, the Parthenon, the Great Library, National Epic, the Taj Majal (rushed with engineer), the Hanging Gardens (rushed with engineer), and the Statue of Liberty (which took way too long to build). So of course that city was my great person city the entire game also.

Other than that I emphasized worker techs first...bronze working, agriculture, animal husbandry, the wheel. I then went for hinduism since it wasn't founded until really late but washington got it 3 turns before I did. So I continued on and got Judaism instead. The great thing is Hatty and Washington between themselves hogged every religion in the game while Cyrus and Victoria didn't get any. So of course I converted them. Hatty and Washington were also on opposite sides of the world so they didn't mess with each other. So it was a very peaceful game for the most part.

I prioritized alphabet and literature after Judaism so I could trade techs and build the Great Library. After that I got code of laws, civil service, currency, then on to education. Next I researched towards democracy, but did liberalism after nationalism (since I didn't want the AI to get it and I had been giving them all my techs including education) and pulled constitution as my free tech. I then did printing press and democracy for emancipation to build up my towns faster. Next I went for banking and economics for my great merchant and free market. It was great being spiritual so I didn't waste turns switching civics. I then went for astronomy for observatories and then on to corporation for extra trade route. Then I got physics for the great scientist and another academy. Then it was on to biology which took quite a few techs. Then assembly line for factories, then railroads, then industrialism to reveal aluminum.

I was following along with jeremiah's timeline on his techs during my game and I reached Rocketry 2 turns sooner in 1390. I then went on to build apollo 3 turns sooner. So I ended up gaining like 12 more turns on him in the modern age alone. I'm guessing it's mostly due to his lack of laboratories. Anyway after rocketry I researched computers of course for laboratories (faster research and ss construction). They can also build them early before apollo is finished instead of wasting time buidling them when they could be building parts. After computers I got satellites to build the thrusters. Then I went on to genetics for the +3 health (since I had coal plants in all my cities) and since it has one of the two expensive parts. Next was Fusion so I could build the other expensive part. I got plastics and combustion in trade from the AI too, which I assume jeremiah did also since his timeline doesn't mention them. Next I did robotics and ecology last.

Great people and golden ages: I got my prophet first and built my shrine. I spread my religion quite a bit in the early game to get more funds. I got an engineer second and used him to rush the hanging gardens much later on (since I got math really late compared to normal and I wanted my cities bigger first to get more benefit anyway). I got an artist third and fortified him. I got a merchant for economics and used him for a golden age to build my universities. I got an engineer which I used for another golden age with the taj majal. The second golden age was around when I was building observatories and grocers. I then got my scientist and used him for an academy. Then I got 2 more great artists despite only 25% chance of getting one. I saved them in my cities for a while. I got another scientist in the modern age and saved him. Once I got the engineer from fusion I initiated my third golden age which almost took me to the end of the game.

I waged one war against Washington. He had founded a couple cities that divided my empire a little. I captured 3 of his cities with about 5 knights, 5 macemen and 3 catapults. One of his cities was generating 65 beakers per turn as soon as I captured it so that was nice. I used the other great artist to create a great work and end resistance in the city closest to the rest of washington's empire.

Well that's that. This might be the first time I feel like I did everything right at the end of the game. I don't know what I could do to improve. I'm sure someone will come along and beat my date but for now I'm pretty happy.

edit: If you want any specific information then ask away, I save my game on every turn of the game. So I can always load up a save and take a look for you.

I accidentally did a Diplomatic victory (I *did* read the darn announcement twice, yet still managed to misread). Managed to get a 1115 date on it, though, so I don't mind it too much =). (great plains map, pretty darn easy map)

Just did it in 1645, using Elizabeth(Phi/Fin) against Asoka, Catherine, Frederick Roosevelt. As theres only one religious player there I could get hinduism and judaism on purpose and confuscianism by accident. After I got Judaism i went for early alphabet, then civil service (Beauracracy), printing rpess, education and then constitution, using Liberalism to get Democracy free, in 1070 AD. I kept Beauracracy, but switched to universal suffrage, emancipation(the essential) and free religion. I then aimed for rocketry, making a slight detour to get communism (switched to free speech then and state property). Space age 'target' techs and when they were finished - 1290 Rocketry, 1340 Industrialism, 1405 Computers, 1490 Fusion, 1520 Robotics, 1580 Genetics, 1595 Ecology. I had 11 cities and 12 workers. I had three golden ages, one prophet/scientist in 1175 to launch me into communism, one prophet/scientist/merchant (free with economics) in 1405 to get Fusion quicker, and one in 1525 when I bought the Taj Mahal (running 20 odd profit at 100% science due to Hindu and Jewish shrines). Apollo program was completed in 1430. About 1400 I started using my workers to change hamlets and cottages into workshops, and kept doing this in cities which I decided to use for production.

Early game, I got 3 workers and a settler out of London and then went straight for stonehenge and oracle. Out of my first six or so cities I squeezed a settler and worker out and then let it grow to about 4 when it reached happiness limit and then started producing more settlers and workers until more happy resources could be had. The key techs to aim for (bronze working first) after your workers and religions are sorted are early alphabet, then civil service, printing press and then democracy, using liberalism to get that for free. Emancipation is essential, but free speech isnt immediately useful, wait until your state property revolution to implement that or you'll lose money. I also avoided implementing a state religion, although I did use organised religion so my cities could produce missionaries in the long wait between libraries and univeristies. I didnt use aqueducts, I got resources instead.

The killer was using the balanced map as jeremiah recommended. So much better than pangaea, more forests and more resources! Previously I had only managed a 1796 victory but balanced maps do seem to be much better for forests and food. Anyway, I reckon that a sub-1600 victory is possible, but I'll let someone else do that :P

Space age 'target' techs and when they were finished - 1290 Rocketry, 1340 Industrialism, 1405 Computers, 1490 Fusion, 1520 Robotics, 1580 Genetics, 1595 Ecology. I had 11 cities and 12 workers. I had three golden ages, one prophet/scientist in 1175 to launch me into communism, one prophet/scientist/merchant (free with economics) in 1405 to get Fusion quicker, and one in 1525 when I bought the Taj Mahal (running 20 odd profit at 100% science due to Hindu and Jewish shrines). Apollo program was completed in 1430. About 1400 I started using my workers to change hamlets and cottages into workshops, and kept doing this in cities which I decided to use for production.

It seems Rocketry first doesn't pay off. You did beat me to Apollo program but you still had to build factories, plants, and laboratories in your cities and started them later. Of course I had a few more cities than you did also. I don't change my cottages into workshops/watermills until the last 10 turns of the game when production is the limitation. I can switch them pretty quickly with stacks of workers. Switching them prior to that slows down your tech pace, which is the limitation until you get the last spaceship part tech. Also how did you build the taj majal in 1525? Were you gifting techs to the AIs and they just didn't build it or were you withholding techs?

The killer was using the balanced map as jeremiah recommended. So much better than pangaea, more forests and more resources! Previously I had only managed a 1796 victory but balanced maps do seem to be much better for forests and food. Anyway, I reckon that a sub-1600 victory is possible, but I'll let someone else do that :P

Hmm, I'll have to try a balanced map next time. IMO, there's two restrictions that need to be made for the permanent hall of fame, though. One is that the barbarians should be required to be on. Having them off makes these games way too cheesy and it seems abusive to me to build no military whatsoever in the early game. The other thing is I think maps designed for multiplayer should not be allowed. That includes balance, maze, mirror, etc.

Jeremiah: Thank you for posting that. It let me see where I was in comparison to you. I have tried this gauntlet 4-5 times already (not counting restarts because of the map sucking) and only finished 1 of them, rest were way far behind. That finish was around 1740 or something, I thought that was good :p

Anyway, I followed your write up and log pretty well. I change around a couple things that I thought you could improve on. My biggest thing in the past was knowing the best tech route. Anyway, on my first attempt following your tech routes and advice, I BEAT YOU ;) 1666!!!!!!!! Looks like that is second right behind Shillen. I can beat his score though, I messed up on a couple things. Anyway, here is a copy of my log: Red are my comments

I got a scout and a warrior out of 2 goody huts. That helped a lot, managed to snag a total of 5 huts I think, most I have gotten on the gauntlet attempts. The warrior helped me from wasting turns to build one to fotify in a city to make it happy. I also pulled my original warrior back into a city once the scout got going pretty good.

My starting city wasn't on a river, all other cities were. Only reason I kept the map was that marble and 2 food resources were in my starting area. I culture flipped 2 cities without trying. I could have grabbed 1-2 more with a culture bomb but didn't want to piss off my neighbors.
Turn 21: You have discovered Bronze Working!
Turn 35: You have discovered Masonry!
Turn 46: You have discovered The Wheel!
Turn 58: You have discovered Pottery!
Turn 72: You have discovered Writing!
Turn 111: You have discovered Alphabet!
I went straight for Alphabet and traded for all the previous techs you spent time teching. They are important, but all of my workers were chop rushing more settlers and workers so they couldn't have used any of them.
Turn 114: BigBenOSU has completed The Pyramids! Chop rushed like crazy.
Turn 123: BigBenOSU has completed Stonehenge!
Turn 124: BigBenOSU adopts Representation!
Turn 129: BigBenOSU has completed The Oracle! Chop rushed so I could get the free tech
Turn 130: Christianity has been founded in Xian!
Turn 130: You have discovered Theology!
Turn 130: BigBenOSU converts to Christianity!
Turn 140: BigBenOSU has completed The Parthenon!
Turn 149: You have discovered Drama!
Turn 156: Imhotep has been born in Tianjin!
Turn 158: BigBenOSU has completed The Hanging Gardens! If Imhotep is an Great Engineer I believe I rushed this.
Turn 159: You have discovered Literature!
Turn 166: BigBenOSU has completed The Sistine Chapel!
Turn 167: BigBenOSU has completed The Great Library!
Turn 172: Homer has been born in Beijing! Think I made an academy in my highest science producing city
Turn 172: You have discovered Music!
Turn 182: Archimedes has been born in Shandong! Think I made an academy in my second highest science producing city.
Turn 184: Taoism has been founded in Shanghai!
Turn 184: You have discovered Philosophy!
Turn 185: The revolution has begun!!!
Turn 185: BigBenOSU adopts Pacifism!
Turn 188: BigBenOSU has completed Notre Dame!
Turn 189: You have discovered Metal Casting!
Turn 193: You have discovered Paper!
Turn 193: Mahavira has been born in Guangzhou! Built my religious wonder
Turn 196: Lahore has revolted and joined the Chinese Empire!
Turn 199: BigBenOSU has completed The Church of the Nativity!
Turn 201: You have discovered Education!
Turn 205: Xi Ling Shi has been born in Shandong! Can't remember what type of great person this is.
Turn 209: BigBenOSU is the first to discover Liberalism!
Turn 209: You have discovered Liberalism!
Turn 210: Islam has been founded in Tianjin!
Turn 210: You have discovered Divine Right! Bought with the free tech from liberalism.
Turn 212: You have discovered Machinery!
Turn 215: Thespis has been born in Beijing! Didn't want to culture bomb anything. Can't remember if I added him a production city or got a tech.
Turn 217: You have discovered Printing Press!
Turn 219: Awdaghost has revolted and joined the Chinese Empire!
Turn 221: You have discovered Civil Service!
Turn 221: Nabu-rimanni has been born in Xian! Think I did an academy
Turn 222: BigBenOSU adopts Free Speech!
Turn 222: BigBenOSU adopts Free Religion!
Turn 225: BigBenOSU has completed Angkor Wat!
Turn 227: You have discovered Nationalism!
Turn 228: BigBenOSU adopts Serfdom!
Turn 235: You have discovered Constitution!
Turn 243: Ptolemy has been born in Shandong! Saved him for Golden Age I think
Turn 244: You have discovered Democracy!
Turn 245: BigBenOSU adopts Emancipation!
Turn 248: You have discovered Guilds!
Turn 250: You have discovered Banking!
Turn 251: BigBenOSU adopts Universal Suffrage!
Turn 251: BigBenOSU adopts Mercantilism!
Turn 252: BigBenOSU's Golden Age has begun!!!
Turn 252: BigBenOSU has completed The Taj Mahal!
Turn 253: Harkuf has been born in Beijing! Saved him for a Golden Age I think
Turn 253: You have discovered Economics!
Turn 254: BigBenOSU has completed Versailles!
Turn 255: Mansa Musa has completed The Spiral Minaret! Beat me by 1-2 turns
Turn 257: You have discovered Replaceable Parts!
Turn 260: You have discovered Corporation!
Turn 261: You have discovered Gunpowder!
Turn 264: You have discovered Chemistry!
Turn 264: BigBenOSU has completed The Hagia Sophia!
Turn 266: You have discovered Steam Power!
Turn 268: Mansa Musa is the first to circumnavigate the Globe! If I would have map traded the turn before I would have had it. Can't remember if it is an extra move for ships or for everything.
Turn 269: You have discovered Steel!
Turn 272: You have discovered Railroad!
Turn 276: You have discovered Astronomy!
Turn 278: You have discovered Scientific Method!
Turn 278: BigBenOSU has completed The Statue of Liberty!
Turn 282: You have discovered Biology!
Turn 283: Virgil has been born in Guangzhou!
Turn 285: Zu Chongzhi has been born in Beijing! Saved him
Turn 285: You have discovered Physics!
Turn 289: You have discovered Electricity!
Turn 290: Pytheas has been born in Shandong! Golden aged him
Turn 291: BigBenOSU's Golden Age has begun!!! I was stupid and didn't wait until spaceship production started.
Turn 292: You have discovered Assembly Line!
Turn 295: You have discovered Industrialism!
Turn 297: You have discovered Artillery!
Turn 301: You have discovered Rocketry!
Turn 306: You have discovered Plastics!
Turn 311: You have discovered Ecology!
Turn 311: Bi Sheng has been born in Beijing! Dumped him in my production city
Turn 312: BigBenOSU adopts Environmentalism!
Turn 315: You have discovered Radio!
Turn 321: You have discovered Computers!
Turn 327: You have discovered Robotics!
Turn 327: BigBenOSU has completed Broadway!
Turn 331: You have discovered Satellites!
Turn 332: BigBenOSU has completed Apollo Program!
Turn 333: BigBenOSU has completed The Kremlin!
Turn 336: You have discovered Fiber Optics!
Turn 339: You have discovered Refrigeration!
Turn 344: BigBenOSU has completed SS Casing!
Turn 346: You have discovered Genetics!
Turn 347: BigBenOSU has completed SS Thrusters!
Turn 348: Cyrus has completed Apollo Program!
Turn 349: BigBenOSU has completed SS Casing!
Turn 349: You have created SS Casing in Hangzhou. Work has now begun on The Space Elevator.
Turn 350: BigBenOSU has completed SS Life Support!
Turn 351: BigBenOSU has completed SS Docking Bay!
Turn 351: BigBenOSU has completed SS Thrusters!
Turn 351: BigBenOSU has completed SS Thrusters!
Turn 352: Mansa Musa has completed Apollo Program!
Turn 353: BigBenOSU has completed SS Casing!
Turn 353: BigBenOSU has completed SS Casing!
Turn 353: BigBenOSU has completed SS Casing!
Turn 353: Hatshepsut has completed Apollo Program!
Turn 354: Blaise Pascal has been born in Beijing!
Turn 354: You have discovered Fusion!
Turn 356: You have discovered Medicine!
Turn 361: You have discovered Composites!
Turn 363: BigBenOSU has completed SS Cockpit!
Turn 367: BigBenOSU has completed SS Stasis Chamber!
Turn 367: BigBenOSU has completed SS Engine!
Turn 367: BigBenOSU has completed The Three Gorges Dam!

BigBenOSU (China) gives: defensive pact
Mali gives: defensive pact -- Deal started in turn 314

BigBenOSU (China) gives: open border
Persia gives: open border -- Deal started in turn 143

BigBenOSU (China) gives: open border
Mali gives: open border -- Deal started in turn 143

BigBenOSU (China) gives: open border
Egypt gives: open border -- Deal started in turn 143

BigBenOSU (China) gives: open border
India gives: open border -- Deal started in turn 143

BigBenOSU (China) gives: wheat
Persia gives: pig -- Deal started in turn 149

BigBenOSU (China) gives: defensive pact
Persia gives: defensive pact -- Deal started in turn 297

BigBenOSU (China) gives: defensive pact
India gives: defensive pact -- Deal started in turn 297


Well, there you have it. I can't remember exactly when I messed up so I didn't include all of it. Here are some of the things I think I did well and stuff I think is important to playing this challenge successfully as well as some things that I know I should have did a lot better. I could have cut 10-15 turns out pretty easily.

Just so you know, my tech was almost never at 100%. It didn't get to 90% until REALLY late in the game. I was running 40-60% for the majority of my teching.

I don't automate my workers until all of the resources are linked and I have built on every space that my cities are using. I would say that I automate my workers when all my cities are around population of 10. I automate my cities from the beginning. It is very important that you set the emphasis of the automation. This is key to playing successfully. Here is what I do about that:

1. I try and remember to set the emphasis on production as soon as the cities are founded.

2. Once all of my workers and settlers have been chop rushed from that city I change the emphasis to growth and make granaries first.

3. I try and watch the population of my cities as much as I can. When they reach 10 I change the emphasis back to production. This gets the cities to pump out some of the important buildings around the time the become available.

4. When I have built all of the buildings that I can without waiting on new tech I change the emphasis back to growht.

5. As cities reach the 20 population mark I set the emphasis to research. However you need to play around with this. For some cities I got more beakers when I had research and growth checked rather than just research. This helps out a ton with the tech rush in the end so you can keep up with your production.

6. When the space race starts I set all cities emphasis to production.

Here are things that I think went wrong:

1. Should have did a better job of exploring in all directions of my starting point. I left out one side that had some resources I wanted. So it took me 1-2 extra moves to find a good spot to set up city #3.

2. I had marble right outside my capital and linked it. I placed city #3 three spaces from stone. I meant to chop rush a library to get it expanded in time for stone. I forgot about it. I could have sped up production of pyramids and stonehenge if I would have.

3. I didn't change some of my citys' emphasis when I should have. Need to stay on top of that more.

4. I went for 20 pop per city. The increased pop helps with teching, but I think having it that large hurts production in the end from all the :mad: people. I need to play around and see where it balances out.

5. I think if I would have culture bombed my main two production cities right before the space race I could have expanded their borders and got more workable land out of it. Believe it works that way.

6. I had three Golden Ages, 2 from Great People and one from the Taj. I think I could have used the Great People more effectively. I think if I would have saved a Great Prophet and a Great Merchant for a Golden Age during spaceship production and placed the rest in my main production cities.

7. I need to specialize my cities more. I tried to balance them all between growth with farms and watermills on the rivers. Need to work that out.

8. Wonder placement. A lot of the early wonders were all dependent on which city had the most forest around it to chop rush it with. I don't know if getting the wonders earlier is better or placing them in better locations and rish not getting them first.

9. Need more cottages early. I build too many water mills where I should build cottages.

10. Need to take the time to evaluate cities. I plan on making an excel file with each terrain type, each building on it, what that building yeilds in the beginning, and what it yields after all the techs are out. This will let me evaluate how many farms a city needs for X amount of population. Then I can build the rest up as water mills and mines.

11. Evaluating cities will also let me see which ones will have the maximum possible production in the end run.

12. Converting farms, windmills, and watermills. I just figured it out in the last 10 turns or so. When your cities are done growing to the size you want, you need to only keep enough farms to give food for that population. That way you can convert the farms to watermills during mid-game or to workshops nearing the space race. Right before you start producing the spaceship parts you need to convert all windmills to mines and have railroads on them and then you need to convert all of the watermills to workshops. If your farms can support your population you can convert your towns to workshops as well. It will kill your income but will shorten your turns by 2-3 for a spaceship part.

13. I just figured some of those things out after the fact. I don't consider them mistakes since I didn't think about them beforehand. The only real "mistakes" I made were the stone thing in the beginning (cost me atleast 2-3 turns) and I didn't convert the emphasis of my major production city to production when I started making the Apollo Program (cost me about 4 turns).

Altogether I should have finished around 1652-54 if I didn't make those major mistakes. With all of the little things I learned during this game I think I can cut out an additional 10 turns or so. That will put my ideal finish around 1610-1625. I played this one all the way through so I need a break. May get my next go at it tomorrow before work. Will let you guys know.

That is about all I have to say. Sorry the post was so long, not sure who will read it :p

Anyway, if you have any questions feel free to ask.

Oh yeah.

Played against Ghandi, Hatty, Cyrus, and Mansa
Play on the balanced map.
Had 12 cities total (10 made, 2 culture flipped)

Final score was 45133.
GNP - 609
MFG Goods - 624
Crops - 474
Land - 566
Population - 53 mill

Made 18 workers, could have stood to have a couple more.
Got a scout from a goody hut.
Had 7 warriors, 1 was the original, 1 was from a hut.
Had 5 archers, 3 were made, 2 were from the culture flip cities.
And 1 infantry. Had to make him for a culture flip city in the very end.

I don't automate my workers until all of the resources are linked and I have built on every space that my cities are using. I would say that I automate my workers when all my cities are around population of 10. I automate my cities from the beginning. It is very important that you set the emphasis of the automation. This is key to playing successfully.

Hmm, I never automated my workers the entire game.

4. I went for 20 pop per city. The increased pop helps with teching, but I think having it that large hurts production in the end from all the people. I need to play around and see where it balances out.

Unhappy citizens? I can't believe you did so well without managing your cities much more closely.

5. I think if I would have culture bombed my main two production cities right before the space race I could have expanded their borders and got more workable land out of it. Believe it works that way.

You never can work more than 21 tiles in one city.

What was your reasoning for building the Sistine Chapel?

The only real "mistakes" I made were the stone thing in the beginning (cost me atleast 2-3 turns)

There's no way this minor detail cost you 2-3 turns on your launch date.

I'm sorry but I'm a bit perturbed that you can do so well without knowing much about the game.

GNP - 609
MFG Goods - 624
Crops - 474
Land - 566
Population - 53 mill

I'm curious how these numbers work. I'm at work so I can't check my exact numbers right now but you guys have more land area than I did, but far less GNP, Mfg Goods and Crops. I'm wondering if it's due to the balanced map as opposed to pangaea...

tried massive chop chop expansion combined with early representation. research has been phenomenal, got alphabet by 680 BC. but around 0 AD (BC?) i got literally broke and lost 4 of my workers. recovering from this took many many turns, resulting in a launch in 1798.

but the impact of representation specialists seems ok, if i only had marble and stone i maybe could have done better ^^

Hmm, I never automated my workers the entire game.



Unhappy citizens? I can't believe you did so well without managing your cities much more closely.



You never can work more than 21 tiles in one city.

What was your reasoning for building the Sistine Chapel?
I'm with you, that also beats my best try to date, but I haven't messed with it since Thursday or Friday. So I guess I'll have to play some more games. :P

There's like no reason to build the Sistine Chapel as you don't want Great Artists (save the one from Music for golden age if you like). I automate workers quite a bit in "normal" games but I wouldn't in this competitive situation, well, at least until I had railroads built on all mine tiles.

And unhappy citizens? Well, maybe in one or two cities I'll have one unhappy face for a few turns since I didn't pay enough attention..

I see ppl manage to get techs from the AI somehow too, in my first game I tried gifting them all techs but still didn't get anything in return the whole game except stuff like Drama (Feudalism and Construction were probably the only two useful ones). Maybe the AIs I've been playing with aren't so great, so I'll try the others (or I'm researching techs that I should be leaving to AI). Gonna have to give that "Balanced" map a try too, I think... haha.

ed: or maybe the "Lakes" map is just too much land, so AIs expand too much and have horrible research rates? Going to try Balanced or Pangea next for sure..

They don't get a lot of techs. The bigger benefit of giving them every tech you research is to drain them of their cash. If you're getting a tech every 4 turns on average then you can usually sell it for 20-40g to each AI. With 4 AI's that's an extra 20-40g per turn, which is pretty nice. Any techs you manage to get are an added benefit.

I still think I did the right thing about rocketry first. Previously I had gone for computers first, and then when I went to rocketry I found apollo program took so long to build production far overran research, as I had to build everything in one go. Getting Apollo on the boil nice and early is useful as it can be done at the same time as your research. I think I did change to workshops far too early which did slow me down though. Apollo program said initially 78 turns to go which panicked me and I changed even some towns in that city to workshops. I also was a little hesitant in the beginning on getting cities and workers out (each city should have a dedicated worker, but if theres lots of forest jungle you need two) which would have slowed me down. I didn't even have a full road network up by the end of the game which when it came to railroading mines cost me turns. There was also still some decent empty spaces which I should have settled in earlier. Apollo first is definitely the way to go IMHO, but don't panic if it takes ages. The taj mahal was a stroke of luck though - up until I got liberalism/democracy I was very wary about just giving techs (I had to get liberalism first) but as soon as I hit that I just gave everything away. I think I flooded the AI with so many techs they couldn't do a thing! I purposely chose no industrial civs (hence Asoka instead of Ghandi) with this in mind, but I didnt have stone or marble. Making sure you have at most one civ starting with mysticism and no industrial civs is very useful. Surprisingly it was frederick and roosevely who helped in the post-democracy techs most, yet they were both bottom of the scores.

As for the game rules, I don't think the map choices should be limited, especially because the multiplayer maps are designed to be fair - which in a competition like this, helps even things out. I definitely agree with you on needing barbarians. It is a bit of a joke having no military at the start. Would it be too much to ask for raging barbs? Perhaps, but it is fun. I might have one last go at a no barbs map then maybe later try a barbs on map to see the difference.

I still think I did the right thing about rocketry first. Previously I had gone for computers first, and then when I went to rocketry I found apollo program took so long to build production far overran research, as I had to build everything in one go. Getting Apollo on the boil nice and early is useful as it can be done at the same time as your research.

I didn't say do computers first. I did rocketry before computers. The important thing is getting factories in your cities. And then after you get the factory tech you're only 1 tech from aluminum and +100% apollo construction so you might as well grab that one while you're at it.

But yeah with the commerce->production switch I actually starve my cities for the last 10 turns of the game. If I replace like 3 or 4 farms with workshops and make sure the city has a near full food box before doing so then I can usually drop the production time by 2 or 3 full turns while starving at like -6 to -10 food. Since the box is full the city won't drop any pop points before it completes the part and the game is over.

edit: As for whether to allow multiplayer maps or not...having maps be balanced for multiplayer doesn't mean they're balanced for single player. The balanced map is the best example of that. You're guaranteed to have all the resources within a few tiles of your start location. That's taking a major aspect of the game away right there. Why would people play on other maps if they can have that? In single player the player isn't supposed to be on perfectly even grounds with the AI. If you don't have iron in your start location you go get some or trade for some. In multiplayer good luck acquiring iron from another player who has it when you don't. Good luck getting someone to trade it to you too, when they can weaken you by keeping it away from you. I think balanced maps serve their purpose great for multiplayer but ruin single player games.

This HOF playing is killing me! my back and eyes hurt and I cant for the love of god make a great score like most others have...

Attemt year score
1st 1890 13.000
2nd 1820 20.341
3th 1778 26.949
4th 1708 28.699
5th 1682 32.444

You are right, I don't know much about the game. I have only been playing Civ 4 for a little over a week and have only completed about 6-8 games. Played Civ 2 a lot but didn't really get into or have time for Civ 3. So this is really one of the first turn based strat games I have played a lot in about 2 years.

It isn't that hard of a game to master. With this gauntlet game and barbs off it is pretty easy. If it actually involved fighting I probably wouldn't be doing that well in comparison to most of you.

As for the Sistine Chapel, there were times when I had several cities producing wealth because my tech hadn't caught up. I am pretty sure I also put it in a border city to help with the culture.

And not having stone available did cost me a couple of turns. Think about it. I had to chop twice as much to get the wonders made. That means the workers I had chopping were tied up for an extra 10 turns total between the two wonders. The could have put down cottages 7-8 turns earlier than they did. So that cost me about 10-15 gold pieces. The extra forest that were used up could have been chopped to make a couple more workers or atleast 1 more settler. Having an additional city would have definitely saved me a couple turns of tech and added income. The gold lose could have went towards raising my tech level for a turn to get the tech to pop out in 1 instead of 2 more turns. So not having stone DID cost me a couple turns.

As for not managing my cities more efficiently, I agree. I haven't learned that aspect of the game that well yet. I can manage them fine in the early game but once they start getting overpopulated I keep getting them complaining about it being over crowded. I can counter this at the lower levels by introducing happiness resources and happiness buildings, but once they get say 15+ I haven't been able to satisfy them. I don't really want to cap my cities at that low of a pop though, I may try next time.

I certainly over did the wonders. I was thinking "more wonders == more great people" however at 1150 is the point where you have 100 turns to 1650 (the current goal for me). So really +2 more great people that late isnt worth much in most cases (micromanaging exceptions).

So no more wonders that will be completed after 1150 for me if they are being built almost entirely for great people.

The other thing i can improve is the speed of laboratories. Which might mean trying to build up kremlin for rushing. Overall though my not stopping and queuing laboraties ahead of casings was a major blunder. Going to try to accumulate some cash for rushing those.

Also I would like to know the population size and GNP on your last turn of the current low water mark. To give me an idea of how big your empire was.

I hope to also try a huge empire strats. Just obscenely large empire. See if i can muscle out something ferocious! An interesting sub goal would be to make the goal of "exceed 1000 GNP in the fastest time" (without using golden age)

Well I know in my last golden age my Mfg Goods and GNP were both over 1200. I was also pulling in 3800 beakers per turn. I think after that golden age ended I was still over 1000 GNP and in the 800s Mfg Goods with ~2900 beakers per turn. I'll update this post with exact numbers in a few hours when I get home.

I'm not understanding why my land area was lower, though. Obviously my population must have been much much higher to get nearly double your score. Winning 15 turns earlier doesn't make that big of a difference in score so it must have been population. But how can I have less land and way more population? None of my cities were over size 20.

edit: Actually I think I had one size 22 city, but the rest were 20 or lower. I'll throw up some screenshots when I get home.

If you pop open that saved game again grab your total population and GNP please. Should be able to figure out if increased population is a factor in speed from that.

i had 8 cities and 670 GNP :)

Ok I guess I had a couple cities over 20. Here are the screenshots with all the info you could need. All shots are from the turn after victory.

Game settings:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/shillen_bg1f_settings.JPG

Research rate:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/shillen_bg1f_economy.JPG

Territory:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/shillen_bg1f_land.JPG

Demographics:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/shillen_bg1f_demographics.JPG

Cities:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/shillen_bg1f_domestic.JPG

And a picture of my empire:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/shillen_bg1f_empire.JPG

You had 14 million more people then i had I have to believe that implies i need to pickup a couple more cities in my next run.

Finished a new game, launched in 1520 AD for a 60361 score.

Pangea map, temperate, low sea level, opponents Asoka, Washington, Cyrus, and Hathesput. I played as Mansa Munsa.

The Pangea map was definitely a lot better than Lakes and the 10 turns or so of anarchy saved is better than Industrial trait too. You really only need to build a few wonders.

You had 14 million more people then i had I have to believe that implies i need to pickup a couple more cities in my next run.
I only had 40 mil pop. (ed: well, of course this is many turns earlier though too)

http://members.cox.net/darkhosis/civ4.JPG

There are the cities at the end. The research isnt maximized though because I switched to state property at the end so I could get more out of my production cities - inparticularly Gao, where I destroyed at least 6 or 7 towns to make workshops (it was a very good research city before).

Finished my 6th and possible last HOF game this month unless several people bet me at this score.

Played as Mansu who is the very best chooice in my oppinion.
Vs Hap, Whasington, Cyrus and Elizabeth.
Balansed map

Choprushed as an madman thinking that I overdid it having my research down at 20% at lowest but it turned out fine in the end when the cottages got popping making my research precentage raising in steps and I did finnaly get a decent score!

got 3x10 golden age turns after the apolloprogram. Used Thaj Mahal wonder to the the first one
and then my saved great people.

Got a good but not perfect startposition: 1 cow (plains), 2 ordinary grassland hills,
2 hills (plains) with gold. 1 ordinary hill (plains). 4 ordinary floodplains, 4 ordinary grasslands, 3 plains
with wine. Cant remember the rest.

Finished my spacerace in 1505AD
Score 75316

1505 is incredible. That will definitely get you top 5, probably top 3. Good luck.

I usually playing games straight though or only take an hour or so break. Of course I quit if I know I am way behind. I just had the most amazing start so far. Have to go to work. Hopefully I can remember everything I was planning when I get back. I am micromanaging the hell out of this game. My only problem is that I have been chop rushing a LOT of settlers and am not 100% sure if I can still get hte pyramids done first. Trying my best though. Will see how well I do later.

Stone resource is an most have. It does not matter how good the capital location is, without it u will be far behind. Other resources like aluminium, copper, plutoniom and such will always appear if u chopexpand 15-12 cites so I never worry about them.

Your capital must be a industious and scientific monster! Im always going for a lighting run for civil service (oracle must be built just after u researched the code of law) to get burecraticy for ind and science. This will greatly help my wonder bulding trouhout the game.

I did one big mistake in my game when I missed to use the workshop/state property to speed prod. This my have set my victory back 2-3 turns! otherwise the 1500AD barrier would have been busted.

Btw if someone could tell me how to post the logfiles I will. Did a quicke glance at the other logfiles and it seems my tactic differ by going for the civil service blitz.

with this tool http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=141769 you're able to extract the log from the saves (they're found in your civ4 folder under _Civ4Saves).

just extract the exe in your civ4 folder and run it like this:
eventlog [path to savegame] [outputfile]