View Full Version : Incan Rush


iamdanthemansta
Dec 09, 2005, 12:12 AM
When you play as the Icans do you feel that you must attack someone in the very very early game so as not to wast your UU?

baboon
Dec 09, 2005, 03:51 AM
Yeah.. :)

MRM
Dec 09, 2005, 04:13 AM
That at least what I do if I play the incas - just build hordes of their early UU and then try to conquer the capital of the next civ before they have bronze working ....

narmox
Dec 09, 2005, 04:31 AM
The only time I played the Incas I was stuck in a parcel of land blocked off from the rest o the continent by mountains! There goes the Quechua rush.. lol

Zombie69
Dec 09, 2005, 05:42 AM
Definitely do. Last time i played Inca, i won a domination victory before 1 AD!

zafyro
Dec 09, 2005, 06:23 AM
i wont say so. Trying to make so can ruin you badly. First is because even with a 100% bonus you have a hard time beating archers fortified. Second is that you have no advantage fighting other warriors. and third is that so many troops so early in enemy territory make a big deficit.

War yes, maybe steal one under defended city or capure, if you reach it a worker, but that´s it.

Khaim
Dec 09, 2005, 06:32 AM
Well you're aggressive, so you can get two-promotion units right off the bat. Shock/Cover and maybe some Medic I on all your units should be huge.

Napo981
Dec 09, 2005, 07:02 AM
I'm not a rush fan and I certainly don't rush with Inca.

I rather play Inca for the agg/fin traits.

UUs are far less dominating than in Civ3. I don't mind losing a UU it if I don't rush.

Good tactic anyway.

Gufnork
Dec 09, 2005, 07:36 AM
The UU isn't wasted even if you play defensively. Quechuas are great defenders until barbarians start getting Axemen, making them cheap defenders that requires no tech. When other civs research archery and train (comparatively) expensive archers, you can concentrate on religion or worker techs and get a head start.

I can't say I agree with Napo though, they are darn domination in CIV.

petey
Dec 09, 2005, 08:15 AM
It's fine playing the Incas without using the Quecha rush. Aggressive and Financial are two good traits on their own and they start with Mysticism, so it's easier to get an early religion going.

The UU is just another tool that you are able to use for a civ. The Incas have a UU that makes an early rush more successful, but they can be played well without it. Similarly, the Germans have a UU that makes later war more successful, but they can be played for a cultural win where you never get to Panzers. Personally, if I were going to be playing for a victory condition that didn't use all the tools available to a civ, I'd choose another civ to try and go for that condition, but that's not necessarily a universal strategy for everyone.

vyapti
Dec 09, 2005, 10:02 AM
In my current game, I built 5-6 cities all game. The rest came in conquest. A quechue rush is great, but they are not immediately obsolete. Archers defend cities for quite a while, until the longbowmen are developed, and even then, it takes some time to replace their archers.

After the early rush, cities are usually defended with an axeman or spearman and some archers. The melee units always seem to defend first. I have found it extremely effective in the mid-early game to attack with 1-2 axemen, some quechua.

Once archers are gone, quechua are useless. I kept them around, defending my core cities with a few as medics and upgraded them into a swarm of riflemen with city raider III.

Astax
Dec 09, 2005, 11:45 AM
Id go that route only agianst AI and only if I am sure I will get their worker because while you build military you not makign a worker and that leaves you way behind. But then agian with AI there really isnt such thing as behind :/

Draax
Dec 09, 2005, 12:24 PM
I *always* quecha rush. I don't build a worker or anything. I build quechas until I've found and taken the closest enemy capitol.

I usually don't play as Inca nowadays because it feels like cheating. You start the game with a unit that can storm a capitol and take it, giving you two excellent cities right out the gate. While you do this, you get to found a religion. THEN you're able to go into super land-grab mode and colonize two-civ's worth of land. AND you can afford it because you're financial.

Incas have four huge advantages at the start. If you make use of them all, the game is almost too easy at Prince level. I'm too cowardly to use them at monarch, plus I still have a lot to learn as I get smoked frequently when I use some of the other civs.

In summary: Spam quecha, nothing else. Kill city. Use that city's worker to chop your own. Found religion. Spam cottages and settlers. Spread religion. Win.

mjsbx
Dec 09, 2005, 01:06 PM
for those of you who use this strategy, how many cities do you build before you start rushing quechas?

MRM
Dec 09, 2005, 01:19 PM
for those of you who use this strategy, how many cities do you build before you start rushing quechas?

If an opponent is colse enough - none. Why build an other city when you can conquer it ... :D

( + if you hit him early enough he won't have axemen or someting like this )

After the early rush, cities are usually defended with an axeman or spearman and some archers. The melee units always seem to defend first. I have found it extremely effective in the mid-early game to attack with 1-2 axemen, some quechua.

That worked for you ? I Tried the same and my axemen attacked their archers, and then my Quechuas had to deal with his axemen - bad deal for me ...

Draax
Dec 09, 2005, 01:19 PM
for those of you who use this strategy, how many cities do you build before you start rushing quechas?

None. None at all.

The thing with quechas is the longer you wait the less powerful they are. If you take time to build a worker, a barracks, whatever, that is less time before your quechas are obsolete.

When you settle your capitol, use the alt key to infinitely build quechas. Do not stop building them until you have conquered an enemy capitol. At this point your city will be able to quickly build a worker because it will have 4 or 5 population. You will also have several quechas left over. Ironically these are still very useful. Even if you do *nothing* else with them, they're "insurance." Having a big army like that will keep jerks like Monty from messing with you. Sometimes another civ will settle a city close to you and have one archer guarding it. When it hits 2 pop, take the city and then turtle down for a peace treaty. Other uses are "kidnapping" other civ's workers, escorting your settlers, and guarding your own workers so they can chop outside your fat cross.

panzooka
Dec 09, 2005, 02:56 PM
mansa musa skirmishers > incan quecha

MRM
Dec 09, 2005, 07:25 PM
mansa musa skirmishers > incan quecha

Yep - you are right - I wouldn't try a quencha rush against Mali ...

DavesWorld
Dec 09, 2005, 08:15 PM
Ican have become my favorite race. I don't usually bother rushing though ... too busy expanding and building up. UUs just don't appeal to me; sure they're often powerful, but it's the other advantages of Ican that are interesting.

Aggressive; free promotion and half cost barracks. Financial, +1 gold with 2 or more. Easy to reach a religion on start (usually can snag 2 out of 3 from Bud/Hind/Jud); and those come early enough to double up the holy city on your capital.

Playing on Epic (which feels more like the Civ I'm used to, "normal" speed feels way too short turn-wise), hit modern military era (tanks / planes) around 1300-1700ad with 10-15 cities fully or almost-fully upgraded. Take 20turns to crank a force of tanks and bombers, and start punching out obnoxious neighbors.

Incans are fun. Sure you can early rush, but then you miss all the map development. Builders ftw I guess.

vyapti
Dec 10, 2005, 01:44 AM
Ican have become my favorite race. I don't usually bother rushing though ... too busy expanding and building up. UUs just don't appeal to me; sure they're often powerful, but it's the other advantages of Ican that are interesting.

I've taken to playing conquest/culture games. I rush quechua early get a capital and, if I run out of enemies early in the game, I switch to culture. Financial is a must for cultural win (IMO), and aggressive gives riflemen a combat I promo that puts it nearly on par with Redcoats.

VoiceOfUnreason
Dec 12, 2005, 10:08 PM
Anybody experimented with the Hydra? I was running some numbers today and it looks as though one or two luxury resource/oasis is enough to leave Spain by a Lake in the dust.

I'm guessing that you can't Hydra and rush at the same time, though - not enough production.

zafyro
Dec 13, 2005, 03:37 AM
i don´t know if enough quechua work for a early rush... people say that they do that and it´s ok but entenring war so early when i have done that at prince dificulty only has gained me extra enemies with the civs that knew the one i atacked [at this time everyone is peacefull] earning me a reputation that lasted all the game, and avoiding me of building anything else.

I atacked the americans with 6 quechua to find they had the capitol on a hill. all my quechua except one had cover the other was a medic. and i was unable to capture... [the had only 2 archers inside]

reloaded,

buid 2 more quechua, conquered but by the time i had conquered the had expanded so they had a new city, built also on a hill and defended again by 2 archers... i buit some more quechua and went for it. When i finally conquered it i had 3 cities 2 of then did not produced a **** because they were rebelious, i had no time for exploration and the money cost of having 8+ unts on eney territory plus having now 2 moderately far cities had crippled my research.

I had buit previously a worker an some mines to help with the unit training... maybe i should not build it and start to build quechuas right away? [i don´t thik so as the forest chop increased the output greatly once i discovered bronze working]

Of course as i needed the production of choping and mining i did not went for a religion and did not take any.

I supose that it is experience in rushes what i lack but i stil find this unit a bit weak to use as a rusher [i´d wage my chances with inmortals or praetorians of course lol]

seraphism
Dec 13, 2005, 05:35 AM
i find that chopping is pretty vital for a quecha rush, my normal starting strat is build two workers first (after a warrior) and with two workers chopping quecha's you can build up a decent sized force really quickly. It's also a good idea to steal a worker from and harrass (sit a quecha on a hill) the capital of the civ your going to war with.

eiseike
Dec 13, 2005, 07:09 AM
OK , here we go. I've been using the Inca's like crazy lately , now they're my no.1 civ. > great army good economy.

Here's what I do , mass as many Quechua ( they're so damn cheap! 15 hammers ) basicaly every turn you can crank one out , you should quickly set up 3 cities , all with barracks to give you that extra edge , and keep a few villagers chopping like mad for quick extra hammers ......

(and by the way , you can bring your villagers far out to chop , because your Quechua are effective against barbs and animals.)

You have a 2 choices > early on its easy to completely wipe out your nearest civ. ~ but the down side is you'll get a bad reputation ( trust me ... it happened tome already ! with the Inca )

OR even better

dont stop massing Quechua , dont worry about maintenance costs for so many units > Vassalage will cover that ( and also Inca are great at generating commerce )
Plus use Hereditary Rule , and you'll have 1 extra of happiness in your city for each cheap Quechua guarding it , that only costs 15 hammers for 1 happy face and city defence ~ not bad.

Then when you feel ready ( when the AI starts a war with you ) let the hordes loose ! even if they have more advanced units large numbers will overcome anything. If you're clever add some Axemen , Quechua are only a little weak against swordsman.

I would rather keep my Quechua for as long as possible, in fact I would trade my iron away just so they're not upgraded automaticaly.

Never underestimate the power of cheap massed troops , it also makes it hard for the enemy to capture your city quickly if you have large numbers inside, itgives you more time to react.

At the end you easily end up the winner by far because of a strong military force and a good economy ( if you know how )

ChuckDizzle
Dec 13, 2005, 09:38 AM
To get the most out of the Incan's UU, then yes, you probably do need to do a Quecha rush. However, to get the most out of the Incans in general, that depends on what you're playing for

aaronflavor
Jan 10, 2006, 02:36 AM
I'm so glad I read this!! Quecha Rush + Huge/Terra = ph34r

joasoze
Jan 10, 2006, 03:21 AM
I do the following with incas (monarch)

I start with building a quecha and then a worker. This first quecha is sent scouting. When the worker is finished, bronze working is researched (or very close). Then I chop out barracks and 6-7 quecha who I use to take out a neighbour. I continue to chop quechas for quite a while, never building a settler until I have taken 3-5 cities out of my neighbours (usually from two different civs).

The best with this strategy in my opinion is that I can get one or two capitals which always are in sweet spots.

aaronflavor
Jan 10, 2006, 03:55 AM
Well, now I have captured two capitals and retain military control over the majority of a very large continent. Unfortunately, my economy has gone to crap (distance and unit maintenance) with 20% research and barbs are completely hammering my widely-spread cities. My cities are too far apart to reinforce each other against continuous barb attacks, even with roads connecting some.

joasoze
Jan 10, 2006, 05:02 AM
Well, now I have captured two capitals and retain military control over the majority of a very large continent. Unfortunately, my economy has gone to crap (distance and unit maintenance) with 20% research and barbs are completely hammering my widely-spread cities. My cities are too far apart to reinforce each other against continuous barb attacks, even with roads connecting some.

This point will come in all games where you do a quick quecha rush. You need to do a couple of things to overcome this.

1. Courthouses to cut cost

2. Use the financial trait to the max. Cottages, cottages, cottages...

3. Remember that barbarians spawn in the fog of war. Set up defense on hills around your civ and try to reduce the area where the barbs will spawn.

You will be weak for a while, but if you can hold on, then your empire will grow faster and faster (the financial trait will kick in). Even if you research doesnt reach a 100% for a long time, remember that 50% of 500 is much more than 100% of 150 (randomly generated example to show point).

carn
Jan 10, 2006, 05:24 AM
Incas are good to manage your first immortal win, though it's very boring:

Size duel, pangea, high water line, 1 comp opponent, epic.

Immidiately barrack production, one worker, then quechas either till 3-5 cripple the enemy or till victory.
Research the early techs, that allow improve of special resources(cow, rice, fish,...), then bronze working for choping and better units.

First quecha finds enemy city and tries to steal worker. Pillage. Place your quencha on forest or foresthill one square away from the city and fortify. The workers stay in the city and a lot of resources are wasted to kill the quencha. By the time a settler emerges several quenchas should be there, kill the settler. Place quenchas on forests around city and on all good resources.

Now there is the choice to bring 4-6 more quenchas and win by conquering the city or keep the city small by the 4 quenchas around it and develop yourselve, both can give victory with the massing being more risky, as 3 fortified archers inside a city with a 40% cultural bonus can fend off 8 quenchas.

Carn

Maestro_Innit
Jan 10, 2006, 07:59 AM
I find that producing a load of Quecha early pays great dividends because of the combat bonuses they inevitably receive. As long as you're on a fairly large map then you're always gonna bump into a load of barbs and animals. Quecha will eat these for breakfast until such time that the barbs get axemen (even a Quecha with 4 or 5 upgrades will get killed by a barb and that stings). The thing to do is to try to rush out a great merchant by the time the barbs get axemen and send him on a long errand to get you a few thousand coins (I got 3100 last go). With those coins you can then upgrade all of your quecha to axemen and retain their massive combat bonuses and at that point in the game you will still have the enormous advantage Quecha gave you early on.... dunno if it'll work every time but it's a good way to keep your advantage after the axemen arrive :D


By the way. In my last game on continents, there was no copper on my continent and the only source of Iron was right next to my capitol. So how am I supposed to believe that the barbs got axemen? Huh? Sounds a bit like AI cheating to me.:confused: