This is a Realms Beyond SG. RB rules apply.


My apologies to the members of this roster for delays beyond my control. Those are over now, so I hope you are all still with me as we move forward with what should be a fun adventure. :)


Difficulty: Noble
Map Script: Islands (Several Extras, Various Tinies)
Map Size: Standard
Civ: France (Louis)

Variant Rules: None
Victory: Any, but Diplomatic will be pursued.


RB6 ROSTER:

Sirian
Anjinsan
Zagaz
Jkaen
Garath

Alternates:
* Arhiss
* Sadan


I'll be back in a while with the first turn log. :)


- Sirian

OK, guys. Taking attendance. :)

If you are on the roster, please check in with a "Here" post. Thanks!

Anjinsan will be up after my first turn, unless for any reason he can't go, in which case we'll throw Zagaz to the wolves in his place. ;)


So here is our starting situation.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/rb6-1.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/rb6-2.jpg

OK, that is indeed a Tundra/Hills plot to our southwest. Brr. Our lands be chillin'. :lol: We R Sutherners. Hi, my name is Bobby Brian. :lol: ;)

(We need a Snowflake smiley or something. Thunderfall? Hehe. You reading this?)


So I will play the first thirty, to 2800BC. Then next up will play twenty, to 2000BC, then fifteen (to I forget when, but I'll check on it.) Then it's ten per player from there on out.

Not sure if I will have my turn up shortly, or some time after 8PM EST. Will be one or the other!


Welcome all team members and lurkers to this fun and light-hearted adventure. Please have a seat. The waitress be with you shortly to take your order. :queen: (You know. Like, this is I-HOPpers? ... Right. DUMB joke. Sorry! ... Get used to it, though. Hehe.)


- Sirian

Checking in, last though I am on the roster.

I think that's the first start I've ever seen with NO resources visible at the start whatsoever. It's gonna be a slow start we've got here... maybe that'll compensate for it only being on Noble.

Pending whether the presumed warrior move to the hill to his SE reveals anything, I guess it's a tricky decision whether to move the settler or not. I don't have any experience of such weak starts to know how much it would impact us to settle on the spot, but moving to the plains hill W of the settler would give us the extra shield and reclaim the grass forest it stands on now. On the other hand, it would lose us the fresh water bonus and the turn spent getting there, and with no resources in view we may sorely miss the health bonus if we do.

Fairly irrelevant as all that is since Sirian's already started playing, I might as well shut up now.

--Garath

Pending whether the presumed warrior move to the hill to his SE reveals anything, I guess it's a tricky decision whether to move the settler or not.

Not really. The vast majority of map scripts, including this one, have up to eight different functions aimed at "normalization" of starting locations (upgrades to the tiles in the area). One of these functions is Add Bonuses, which will ensure at least one Health bonus in the initial 21 radius.

The food is there. You just don't see it yet.

(It has to be there. This map has Add Bonuses enabled.)

One of the reasons for a relatively poor initial terrain is that this map requires all starts to occur along the coast. Thus all potentially lucrative inland starting plots are disqualified, and it will pick the best one on your island that is touching the ocean. When you get a look at the rest of our island :lol: you will understand why it put us here. ;)

Now that Silks... THAT is probably from the Add Bonuses function.

The last time I saw a no-food-bonus start was on Great Plains (which has seven of the eight "normalize" functions disabled.)

In 99% of cases, you won't go wrong by simply settling in your start location and taking what's there. I admit, though, that there are times when moving can produce some benefit. It has to be a LOT, though, to warrant burning turns to do it.


This type of info is one of the side benefits (or curses?) of playing with the mapmaker. :cool:

4000BC: Paris is founded.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/rb6-3.jpg

The food that had to be there... is there. Sheep! http://sirian.warpcore.org/smilies/sheep.gif


Now the most interesting part of the game: the Opening Strategy.
There are six tech choices, and each offers a different path.

* Mysticism: religion race, early Stonehenge push (we ARE Industrious!)
* Fishing: early Sailing push, early galleys, or workboats for exploration.
* Pottery: early Granary (very much a niche selection, but viable for Exp leaders).
* Hunting: early Archery push, collect Deer or Ivory, build Scouts.
* Mining: mine one of our Plains Hills for faster worker/settler building.
Mining also leads to Bronze Working: reveal metals, chop forests, maybe stronger units.

Mining -OR- Mysticism enables Masonry: Pyramids, Great Lighthouse, collect stone/marble.

* Animal Husbandry: the choice I selected. Collect Sheep! Reveal Horses. Fastest access to Writing.

I don't tend to choose Worker First production -- I like to let a city grow a bit.
This city, however, is so short on surplus food that it needs immediate attention.


We should, at some early point, capitalize on our Industrious trait and build some wonders!

Being Creative, though, blunts the usefulness of Stonehenge.
It's still a very cheap early wonder to start cranking Great People Points, though.

Great Lighthouse or Pyramids might be better for that, though.

I take advantage of the early-game "grace period" of no barbarians and go scouting.


3880BC: We have found Deer. (And lots of Tundra! :eek: )

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/rb6-4.jpg

This is going to be a "harder than average" Noble game, I think.
Sorry, guys! I took the first map it handed us. Should be fun, though.
There is still PLENTY that can be done with a homeland like this!


3680BC: We find Clams, more Deer, and plenty more Tundra and Ice! (Um... yay?) :lol:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/rb6-5.jpg


3640BC: I pop that hut and the locals spin us yarns...
... about "endless floating ice at sea, that we sometimes walk upon."

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/rb6-6.jpg

Um... yeah. Thanks guys. (Those are some kooky people, there!)


3600BC: Buddhism is FIDAL. (Founded In a DistAnt Land)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/rb6-7.jpg

Good thing we didn't go chasing that!

Ooh, check this out. We have found two corn sources near the foggy region.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/rb6-8.jpg


3520BC: More Sheep in the west!

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/rb6-9.jpg

(This almost surely means the ones at Paris were naturally there, not fudged by the start plot normalizer.)

Hinduism is FIDAL. Man. They sucked those up as fast as possible!

Good thing we didn't go chasing early religion. What a fruitless waste that would have been!

Spain on a Lake(TM) this is not!

After learning Animal Husbandry, I started on Fishing, heading for Sailing.

(That one-tile island north of Paris is intriguing. If we can cross over to another Large Island...!)

3360BC: Although I rarely moving through a forest without building a road...
...our need for FOOD is urgent. I move the pasture builders post-haste!

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/rb6-10.jpg

We have Horses nearby! :woohoo:

We could build Chariots if we hook those up. Very strong early unit, same price as Archers.

Two extra food and an extra gold for the Pasture. Will be done in four turns.


3320BC: Snow Lions. :lol:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/rb6-11.jpg

You can LOSE your scouts if you end turns in the open and animals attack.

We are in the forest, though: a sure win for us.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/rb6-12.jpg

Sticking to forests/jungles as much as possible while exploring keeps explorers alive a lot longer!
Also lets them heal faster after fights (because wounds are not as severe!)

3240BC: Our investing in Worker First begins to pay back High Yield(TM) dividends. :hammer:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/rb6-13.jpg


3080BC: Paris reaches size 2! [party]

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/rb6-14.jpg

The governor wanted to run the Silks plot (which is a better net yield) but I disagree.
I want max food, so I order the gover to Emphasize Food for the moment.

Guys, PLEASE pay attention to such things. At some point, it will be vital to cancel that order!

We trained a second Warrior. I send him exploring eastward.
Paris starts a Workboat.
Useful for exploration and sure to be usable as a Fishing Nets at an early city.
Paris is also about to pop its borders again. Yay for Creative.

Note the build choices. All of them have something going for them.
Each has something valid and useful to offer.
The key to making good strategy is to coordinate your choices toward a larger goal.

Does this mean we could see... a religionless start?

There is a second Tribal Village out there, west of Paris.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/rb6-15.jpg

Also some Wolves. Our workers are safe from animals inside our borders, though.


3000BC: Our eastern Warriors reach the coast and find... FISHIES! Yay! http://sirian.warpcore.org/smilies/fish.gif

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/rb6-16.jpg

That spot the warriors are standing would make for a good east coast city.
Horses and Fishes. Lots of water, too: weak producer, strong commercially.
Fish can feed a lot of slaves. (Slavery will surely be our Labor Civic of choice!)


2880BC: Possible crossover from our land to another Large Island, to our east.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/rb6-17.jpg

Calls for naval exploration. (Thus my push for Sailing. Let's see what's out there!)
(After we settle some choice spots on the homeland, of course.)


2840BC: Our western warriors arrive back home and visit the local tribe.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/rb6-18.jpg

Ooh, gold. Money money money. :lol: Cash is always good!

That is also an ideal spot for a city.
It will be useful to keep barbs from popping up, so I fortify that unit there.


2800BC: Our workers complete the first Farm.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/rb6-19.jpg

One cool thing about Civ4 is not HAVING to build roads everywhere.
I often do anyway, for mobility purposes, but in this case...
...We need the food faster! So I skip the road...
...and move west across the river, to start another Farm!


So that's it. I've played my thirty.

Our homeland is MOSTLY ICE. However, we have enough to get by.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/rb6-20.jpg

Lots of Health resources. Extras for trading purposes.
Our team goal is diplomatic victory! So lots of trading is in our future.

* Four Deer
* Four Fish (one not shown at Blue Dot -- buggy display??)
* Two Corn
* Two Sheep
* Silks
* Horses
* Other Seafood

Could be some metals out there, too. We should hope so!

The sea can feed a lot of people, especially when Food bonuses are involved.

Here is my DotMap(TM) suggestion:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/rb6-21.jpg

Note that solid dots are suggested city sites.
Circles are resources that would tie to the city of that color!

Pink Dot(TM) is the best remaining site on our island.
It's low on production but very high on food.
Settling there first would be the "Santa Rosa" move of this SG.

Blue Dot pulls a Fish and Horses. Not a strong producer there, either.
We might consider going there soonish, though, for the Horses!
(We can, for instance, delay Archery if we have Chariots.)

Yellow and Orange dots are strong "snowy" cities.
Both have two food bonuses in range, plus assorted forests and hills.
Those cities will be surprisingly strong despite the barren lands. Wait and see!

Green Dot is a worthwhile, but weakish, city site. One corn, some fertile plots, some sea.
Not a high priority site! I'd grab Pink and Blue first. Heck, maybe Yellow too? Maybe.

White Dot is not ripe to decide. I showed two possible locations.
The island site would waste the four plots inside the red rectangle...
...but it would pull in a lot more sea plots.
If a resource is out there, the island will be better.
If not, the mainland alternative could be worthwhile.
We should explore more before deciding!

Normally, terrain lends itself to multiple "good and valid" dotmaps, but this terrain is kind of picky.
I doubt there is much of an alternative to the plan I've presented.
That big red zone in the middle of the continent is dead space.
Sometimes you've got to know when to waste some low-yield plots!


Anyway, if you guys are all agreeable, we can adopt this dotmap.
Then you can settle any of these valid locations in an order and timing that fits in to your turns.

We also want to explore off the mainland (with ships) and build wonders.

LOTS of possible paths. Up to the next player to make the next round of choices. :)


RB6 ROSTER:

Sirian
Anjinsan ----- UP NOW!
Zagaz ------- On Deck
Jkaen
Garath


- Sirian

Alternate reporting for lurki.... err duty!

Looks like a very interesting start so far, though far too much tundra for my tastes. Usually on a start like this I start looking for early shipping to get my butt off the barren rock that I started on post haste :)

Second alternate checking in. At least we know we start at the bottom of the world in this game. This is going to be interesting! :)

Did we lose track of our rookie team members? :lol:

I hope the guys are still checking the SG forum. :)


- Sirian

I just wanted to take a moment to plug for "Sirian's Book of Civ4 Openings", because I think it would have a lot of great information, and because I wouldn't have to do any of the work :D

Questions:
1) Is the dot map mismarked? Aren't the deer directly above the snowtile at OrangeDot, rather than to the NW of Mountain-on-the-corner?
[Edit: Oh, I can look at the saved game myself to figure that out. nevermind.]

2) What's the plan for the sheep at West Point?

Questions:
1) Is the dot map mismarked? Aren't the deer directly above the snowtile at OrangeDot, rather than to the NW of Mountain-on-the-corner?
[Edit: Oh, I can look at the saved game myself to figure that out. nevermind.]

2) What's the plan for the sheep at West Point?

1. Could be. There ARE two resources there, though, and four forests. A decent mix.

2. To put a city over there. :) Somewhere. Not on the sheep.


- Sirian

Good luck guys, looks like a horrible starting position... but then again, it's only noble. Should give plenty of interesting read and challenges though.

Looking at your more detailed pictures in the turn report, Sirian, VoiceofUnreason is definitely correct: The deer at Orange Dot is immediately to its north, rather than at the location you've circled. I'd agree that that's still the best city location, though, with the forests and food.

As to the west of the continent, I was going to recommend the ice spot in the extreme SW until I noticed that Orange Dot has the crabs as well, but now I suggest that one north of that is probably better, since it claims three coast tiles to the north rather than three less useful ocean tiles to the south, and still leaves the forest to it's north usable. It's hardly vital to decide now, since there's no way we're getting to that site for some millennia yet.

Out of curiosity, how long were you intending to give the others to claim their spots before you start prodding people? :whipped:
It would be nice to get a turn or two in before I visit my parents (who don't have a computer capable of running Civ4 last I checked) over Christmas.

--Garath

I don't know how long to give them. It's kind of odd that none of the four have showed up yet. :confused: It was a long wait to get started, though, so I want to give them a little more time before I start to look for replacements. Hopefully they will check the boards and pay enough attention to thread titles to spot that the game has launched. :)


- Sirian

Might I recommend PMing them? Often seems to be a good way to get somebody's attention. Different style notification in an inbox, etc. <Shrug> Probably worth a shot.

Arathorn

Might I recommend PMing them?

Good idea! Thanks.

I've tried Arathorn's idea. If we don't hear from them by Wednesday, I'll open up their slots for others. (I hope that won't be necessary!)

PM-ing is not part of my normal routine. (Having to delete old messages to make room for new ones... blah. I'm an archivist. I save EVERYthing. So email is my big ticket.)


Also, I have to apologize to Garath. I don't have him flagged (in my mind) as a new person, although he is new to these SGs. (He was one of the early Civ3 Epics players... until they stopped supporting Mac with new patches!)

So we are only missing the three players.

If any of them fail to turn up, we'll move the Alternates to the main roster and look for some new Alternates. (Yikes. Does that put our Alternates in the awkward position of rooting for the main roster guys not to show up? :lol: Well, anyway, we'll just see how it goes.)


- Sirian

Apology accepted, although not necessary. I'd have spoken up if you'd actually tried to replace me, or if I was posting to say something else in the thread, but I didn't feel that merely correcting a number from four to three was important enough to post for.

To be honest it's more flattering to not be flagged as new, as it was a fair old time ago that I played those Epics, and only ever did play five, as I recall. I still want to play this one, though, so don't completely forget me! (Never did get to play that first Potluck game... Got one of those planned for Civ4, Sirian? It was a great concept, I thought. :D)

Wednesday sounds about right; if they're not checking the forum enough to even see PMs by then then I guess the game would just drag on so much that it's better to replace them anyway. Hopefully at least one'll turn up, then we can just fill in with the two alternates and get going.

--Garath

well if alternates get used maybe I could jump in as an "alternate alternate". :wavey:

If there are others ahead of me for those positions that is fine. Ill just keep on reading. :sad: :D

(Yikes. Does that put our Alternates in the awkward position of rooting for the main roster guys not to show up? Well, anyway, we'll just see how it goes.)

Err maybe their internet is down? Yea that's the ticket! :joke:

I am innocent I say! Innocent! I didn't do anything!

:jesus:

Err maybe their internet is down? Yea that's the ticket! :joke:

I am innocent I say! Innocent! I didn't do anything!

:jesus:


Is this like one of those movies where the people ahead on the college wait list get killed? :groucho:


If you need alternate alternate alternates, I'll sign up :ninja: Looks like an intriguing start.

Lurker's comment: I think the idea was to have people who've not played any SGs before (other than Sirian, obviously).

Lurker's comment: I think the idea was to have people who've not played any SGs before (other than Sirian, obviously).

My bad: I thought it was for RB newbies. Never mind. Alternate alternate alternates status cheerfully withdrawn.

My bad: I thought it was for RB newbies. Never mind. Alternate alternate alternates status cheerfully withdrawn.

ChrTh, you were part of my Training Day game for Civ3. That was one of the original TDGs, too, and the most work-intensive one (since each player was doing the whole game, instead of taking turns.) You don't even qualify as an RB newbie. Sorry. :)


- Sirian

Someone better take it, else I'll ninja the save myself and pretend I was in the roster all along.

ChrTh, you were part of my Training Day game for Civ3. That was one of the original TDGs, too, and the most work-intensive one (since each player was doing the whole game, instead of taking turns.) You don't even qualify as an RB newbie. Sorry. :)


- Sirian

I had forgotten that was an RB :crazyeye: ... guess that's doubly cheerfully withdrawn :cool:

Hey, what do you call a succession game where the roster doesn't show up?

A SADan SG... A-ha, ha ha ha, ha... ha... ha... :lol:

Errr... :blush: Ok, don't all laugh at once...

Well, I do hope the planned roster does turn up *nodding* Yes, I do. It would be a great shame if they made the effort in the other thread to sign up and then not turn up here to play the game. Not! :mischief:

:joke:

Actually, on another note, even though I do want to play now :) , if the rest of the planned roster does turn up, that will be good as I most probably will not be around next weekend (I'll let you know Sirian as we get a little closer as it is not a definite thing yet).

I had forgotten that was an RB :crazyeye: ...

Technically it wasn't, but what counts is the clock in my head, not the one on the wall. :lol:


- Sirian

I was bummed that I was too late to join the roster, so I'd love to be on the alternate alternate list. I am an SG noob.

Rabi

I'd like to join a SG, but havent before. How do I go about it and where do I sign up? It seems like all rosters around are closed. RB also sounds interesting and fun.

Well nobody guessed right. I would have been able to fit it in originally, but then as we know Sirian got delayed starting, and now I have started a new job a month earlier than planned and cannot unfortunatly guarentee an internet connection for my home computer for the forseable future and hence must pull out of this, sorry guys.

Hopefully I will be able to pick up a future game with you.

Does it count if I were eligible when you originally set the roster, but started playing a couple SGs since?

If that doesn't disqualify me, I'd like to be put on the list of alternate-alternate-alternate-alternates. :D

Heh heh...Count me in to as an alternate alternate alternate. I am very interested in playing in an SG.
I am eager to improve my Civing skills even though I have been playing ever since Civ 1 came out 14 years ago. You can
always teach this old dog new tricks :p

The ravens are circling already :D

What we need is for some old fashioned slavery tactics... get those on the roster posting! :whipped:

I'd be interested in being an alternate, alternate lol.

I suck though. Like really.

I would have been able to fit it in originally, but then as we know Sirian got delayed starting, and now I have started a new job a month earlier than planned and cannot unfortunatly guarentee an internet connection for my home computer for the forseable future and hence must pull out of this, sorry guys.

Hopefully I will be able to pick up a future game with you.


Good luck with your job! Sounds exciting. (New jobs are always exciting, right? At least for a while.)

Thanks for posting. Maybe we'll have an opportunity to play together in the future. :)


So that means Arhiss moves to the regular Roster, and weakciv appends to the Alternates.

RB6 ROSTER:

Sirian
Arhiss ---- UP NOW!
Anjinsan -- Waiting to Hear From
Zagaz ---- Waiting to Hear From
Garath --- Just Waiting ;)

Alternates:
* Sadan
* weakciv

Retired:
* Jkaen

Arhiss? Since you're around, YOU'RE UP NOW! :eek:
Let's get this party rolling.
Take your turn, lasting until 2000BC. Good luck. :hammer:


- Sirian

:eek:

I'm currently at work, so I won't be able to do anything with the save till this evening.

Warning: be prepared for what likely will be a bunch of :smoke: from me. I haven't played civ very much since oh... Civ 2 or so.

Tonight ... let the weed commence! :lol: Should be a blast.

Newly Appointed Alter-lurker reporting, SIR! :salute:

Alright, save in hand, and going to be doing my turns tonight. Likely won't be able to post the results till tomorrow during the day, or tomorrow evening. Depends on if work will let me plug in my USB drive there or not. :)

Alright, it's :hammer: time!

So very sorry, I am here finally. I have quickly skimmed through the thread. Was busy with work and reformatting my hard drive and all which that entails. Sorry to disapoint alternate alternate alternators...I am ready....Going to bed now though so I should be home by 12:30am EST wednesday December 14. The only thing I will mention is that friday and saturday I am going to my parents place for the weekend and the computer there could barely run civ 3...so if my turn does come up during that time, you can skip me and I can come back in on sunday. My email should be in my profile if ya need to contact me.

Look forward to playing this, hope I do not disapoint!!

And with that....good night...err...morning as the case may be....

And just echoing zagaz, I will not be around on Friday/most of Saturday due to xmas committments (ok, a piss-up pub-crawl :beer: and backing up for another party on Saturday). I will however be around on Sunday if I am needed to play some turns. Sydney is currently ahead +16 hours of U.S. EST, if that counts or means anything.

Already Thursday here (12:40am) :thumbsup:

Ok! Here we go.... I'll be including my thoughts as we go along so I have an opportunity to learn from Sirian the Mighty (TM) (and the lurkers!)

2800 BC: Not much to this turn, start moving our westernmost warrior towards the hill that is just to the east of Pink Dot, both to keep less barbarians about, and to keep an eye on the site. Pink Dot is my first goal! Both Hunting and the Work Boat at Paris complete in 2 turns, so it will be uneventful until then.

2760 BC: Fortify our eastern warrior by blue dot. It looks like our island is pretty much explored, so he can sit pretty for a bit.

2720 BC: Discover Hunting, start on Pottery. My thought is to get granaries, to better get early population growth, and to feed our slavery mill that we will be shortly starting up. :whipped: Start a Settler in Paris, to get Pink Dot as early as feasible.

Run our workboat out northward, to the island just north of Paris to check that out, then eastward to explore around where we want to decide where to put white dot. Also this keeps it fairly close to where it will eventually make a Fish-filet-factory-force-feeding-fodder (i.e. our slaves).

On the way out northward, we discover.... no other island to hop to, but MORE FISH! Possibly a fishing village later on?
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/RB6-22.JPG

2640: Our fishing boat heads off towards the eastern marches, with dreams of vast fishing yards taking up much of the crew's spare time. :viking:

2600: Workers finish farm, start another farm.
2560-2520: Quiet.

2480: Hark! What do I glimpse to the east? More land! To the east!
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/RB6-23.JPG

Heading East, our intrepid fishermen discover YET MORE FISH, and Lions-on-an-island. I'm not sure I can tell if there's more land north of the island. Can the AI drop animals on single tile islands?
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/RB6-24.JPG

2440: Discover Pottery, start on Mining (on the way to Bronze working for the forest chop, and our civic of choice, slavery - fueled by granaries, and loads of fish filets. My thought is we won't need writing till we meet another civ, and would rather get our growth pumped out of the gate.

As for our intrepid fishermen-explorers they have discovered NEW LAND! :viking: :woohoo:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/RB6-25.JPG

Sheep AND Marble! -- We could sure use that marble to get a few wonders out the door REALLY fast.

2400 BC: That wolf that has been hanging around, finally got around to trying to attack our warrior out west. You can guess the results :hammer: I leave our warrior in the West unpromoted. Best to leave options open for now.

We meet Tokugawa. There shall be peace in our Time!
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/RB6-26.JPG
Continued...........

Hrm, not sure why the images are not posting. :mad: I'm using the IMG tags, not URL tags :confused:

Anyhow, if someone can tell me how to fix my posts later, I'll do so. On with the game!


More posts in a few minutes. :)

Lurker's instructions:


Those are dynamic pages though, so they won't work - the Manage Attachments dialogue should let you see where the file actually is.

I'm not sure I can tell if there's more land north of the island. Can the AI drop animals on single tile islands?
Not sure about the latter, but there's another tile attached to the NE of those lions. EDIT: As you found out yourself; should really have thought of that :)

I keep a text file on my desktop whose contents looks like this:


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/

{img}http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/??.jpg{/img}


EDIT: Arrgh! :aargh: Stupid "code" tags are FAILING to display part of the code. :rolleyes: One wonders what is the point, then. :crazyeye:

Anyway... I had to substitude curly brackets for the straight ones that are actually there in my file.

The purpose is to never have to type all of that again. I open the text file, copy the applicable line (one is for images, the other for anything else), and then paste that line over and over and over for each use, editing only the file name.


I also use the Upload File option which is at the bottom of every CivFanatics forum page, third from the left in the bottow row of options.

Upload the files to the server (one at a time, unfortunately) and then link to them as shown above.

The site recommends using the forum attachment function so that you can erase files later, but why would anybody want to erase my SG files? :crazyeye: I go to all the trouble to write up these things. I hope to have people read them, even sometimes months after they were played, because new people will continue streaming in for a good while yet. :)

Anyway... Yes, that's part of being an SG newbie: figuring out how to work the attachment process. I should have posted something up front, but I forgot. :wallbash: Sorry. :mischief:


- Sirian

Dont appologize. Instruction is always best when prac-app is being done.

Well at least I always learned better trying and doing rather than sitting listening to (or reading) what the teacher was saying.

Dont appologize. Instruction is always best when prac-app is being done.

Well at least I always learned better trying and doing rather than sitting listening to (or reading) what the teacher was saying.

Yeah, but it's now on Page Three. Which means it's not in a place easy to reference, for those who will come later, in future games and times. ... Oh well. :) Maybe I'll just link them to page 3. :crazyeye:


- Sirian

Actually if you look at the content of his post (e.g. by quoting it) you can see that he's formatted his post correctly. It's just something screwed up is happening with the forum so that it is not displaying the images properly. Now he has capitalized his IMG tags and his JPG extensions, but that shouldn't matter. Also it's clear Civfanatics knows where the images are since it can display them when you click on the links, it's just not formatting them inline properly. It seems to me the problem is on CivFanatics' end.

I've seen this sort of thing happen before; for a while on a different forum all attachments I uploaded behaved the same way as Arhiss's. Then sometime later, it was fixed and I could add images and have them display normally again. Never did find out what the problem was though. I went back and edited my posts on that forum that were not working correctly (without actually changing anything) and then they worked fine.

Sorry for the delay -- several minutes stretched till my lunch break ;)

On with the show! :hammer:

Looks like the Japanese are off to our East.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/RB6-27.JPG


2360 - 2320 BC: - More farms with our worker - Mining in 2 turns. I could be building cottages ritht now, but right now we want Paris to grow fast, and commerce can be taken care of by the 8 sea tiles available. We can always shift strategy later. Settler in 3 turns.

2280 BC - More wolves about to go after our warriors in the West. They should win.

IT: Warriors Defeat wolf. They are hurt slightly though. (1.8 / 2) More exp for us! :spank:

2240 - Discover Mining. Start Bronze working, currently will discover in 11 turns.

Our explorer viking fishermen discover Tokugawa's lands. :goodjob:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/RB6-28.JPG

2200: Trained Settler in Paris, start Granary. Settler heads off towards Pink Dot.

Our viking fisherman continue to explore. Toku's city is a new one; it hasn't expanded beyond the original 9 squares.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/RB6-29.JPG

2160, 2120 - Viking Fishermen (TM) :viking: continue to explore. They should probably turn around soon if we intend to use them to fish at blue dot after we build our next settler. Settler headed to Pink Dot.

2080 - Done farm, starting on Mines to Boost Paris's production. In the meantime Paris has grown to size 4. Growing at a somewhat-healthy 4 surplus food a turn.

2040 BC - Settler reaches pink Dot. :beer:

2000 BC - Rosette founded! :bounce: (Not sure on the etiquette of completing the turn you are supposed to hand off on or whether you are supposed to save it pristine, but I HAD to!) Start warrior. (Next up feel free to veto).

Summary:

Tokugawa's lands:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/RB6-30.JPG

Our lands:
Paris Growing in 5 turns, Bronze working in 4, Granary in 7.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/RB6-31.JPG

Detail of Paris:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/RB6-32.JPG

Note that it is still emphasizing food. A quick bit of management shows that switching off food emphasis drops growth to 7 turns, while only speeding the granary up by 1 turn. I leave it as it is.

My concerns: Have we made a blunder in not getting archery sooner? The barbarians should be waking up soon I think :eek:. We do have a fair ammount of the island under view from our two watching warriors, but there are still some gray areas they could come storming out of.

Do we really have the capability (if we either suspend the granary, or start right after the granary) to go after that marble, or does it pretty much belong to Toku?

Other than those concerns, next player is UP!!!! :hammer:

I think the problem is that Arhiss is using the post attachment link, which contains a .php?xxx entry, i.e. is not a fixed link, so it won't work for images. If you do them like Sirian mentioned above they'll work, because it's a fixed URL.

I think the problem is that Arhiss is using the post attachment link, which contains a .php?xxx entry, i.e. is not a fixed link, so it won't work for images. If you do them like Sirian mentioned above they'll work, because it's a fixed URL.

If I have time this afternoon I can try to fix those up. It looks like it would mean re-uploading all the files the way Sirian suggested.

To be honest I just wanted to get the turn posted. I can edit the posts again later tonight, if need be.

I dunno whether the pun is intentional or not... but it's brilliant ! :lol:

"Rosette" for pink dot, ok... but unless I'm mistaken you've renamed Lyons, and it so happens that the "rosette" is a specialties from Lyons ! ;)

If I have time this afternoon I can try to fix those up. It looks like it would mean re-uploading all the files the way Sirian suggested.

To be honest I just wanted to get the turn posted. I can edit the posts again later tonight, if need be.

I don't think you have to re-upload. (I could be mistaken.) Try pointing URLs at the uploads10 folder (as I showed above, but with straight brackets) to the filenames in question. Only if that doesn't work should you re-upload (and probably also then wipe out the versions you attached to the posts).


- Sirian

One other note: please don't load the games by double-clicking on them. This overwrites the game name with your default user name. Load them by starting up the game and using the Load Game option.

What's the command for resetting the game name, again? Ctrl-D?

It should be reset to "RB6 Island Hoppers" at the next opportunity. (Next player up can do it, I think.)


Zagaz... if you can take the game, you're Up Now! You have it for 15 turns. I believe that will take the game date to 1400BC. After that, it's 10 turns per round for all players. (1000BC, 750BC, 500BC, etc).


- Sirian

Alt-D, I believe.

Playing game at the moment...should be done and all posted by 1:30am EST hopefully...Oh...I use dot dot dot excessively...yeah...get used to it :)

IT: Lord Macauley has completed his list of most wealthy. Island hoppers are 2nd and Tokugawa is 7th and I used Alt-D to switch our name back

1960BC: Moved warrior into Rosetta as there is a barbarian snooping about.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/snoopinbarbs.JPG

Alas our intrepid fisher viking folk have been trapped by the expansion of a japaneese city...peace in our time indeed.

Well, at least they can survive off the fishies nearby...Hurry up and overfish those banks, leave no fish for the treacherous Japaneese!!

1920BC: Nothing to report.

1880BC: Pondering taking 5 turns to get worker to Rosetta and get that corn hooked up and getting another worker shortly from Paris to complete modifications...off he goes!:hammer:

1840BC: Bronze working discovered, going for writing to get open borders, get started on good relations with the Japaneese at least, and call back our intrepid viking fishers. Also implement slavery right off the bat, you know it's gonna be allright! And if not...get out yer whips boys!! :whipped:

1800BC: Government is reastiblished, 7 turns for writing. Tokugawa's western city will get copper when it expands....still no word on the forums if we should try the risky manouevre of getting that marble, we could get sheeps and possibly cut off 1 source of copper...hmm...decisions decisions. :ack:

After conferring with The Oracle (ie my roomie,) I have decided
to go for it...switching off of granary to galley then settler. City growth in 4 galley in 7 turning off emphasize growth...oh and lookie here...a new shipment of whips have arrived!!

1760BC: Rosette's borders have expanded...there was much rejoicing...:beer:

1720BC: Worker begins farming that corn...he seems to have frightened off the barbarian...good good! Fear my mighty hoe!!

1680BC: Nothing else happens...steady on old chaps...err..Mes Amis!

1640BC and 1600BC: Ibid

1560BC: Galley complete, switched to settler 10 turns...should have left worker there, well, he should be able to hurry back for 1 chop to help out..damn me!! On second thought, leaving him there. All told with turns it would take to get there and chop closest trees, 9 turns...will just have to whip that settler out the door!!

1520BC: Writing completed, the sages are busy working on Masonry, they have heard legends of Marble to the east and are aware of an expedition that will soon be setting off to claim our Heritage!!

Tokugawa does not like us enough for open borders :( ...well...he shall pay for that!!
Corn should be hooked up in 2 turns, moving galley to the eastern peninsula to get a head start, awaitinghis precious, precious cargo.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/expeditionheadstart.JPG

1480BC: Warrior trained in Rosette, will work on another until it grows to size 3 and work on settler to claim some other resources on our little island.

Maybe yellow dot could be moved over the the west, on the ice by the mountain to claim the deer and the copper...Moving Rosette warrior to the south west to see what happened to the barbarian and have that area visible

1440BC: Worker gonna mine the hills to the east of Rosette.

1400BC: Whip the good citizens of paris, let's get this expedition started! Paris now at size 3.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/pariswhip.JPG

So then, thus ends my turn...hopefully not too disastrous. Settler will be out next turn, you can continue building warrior in Rosette or switch to ettler...or something else. Masonry in 3 turns and warrior almost in position to expose the south west chunk of the island. Tokugawa still not liking us enough to get open borders.

As stated before, I recommend moving yellow dot, would have to tinker with positions of other spots. I really hope I did not screw anything up. Here is the save and a final oerview of things.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/stateofempire.JPG


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/RB6_Island_Hoppers_BC-1400.Civ4SavedGame Island Hoppers BC-1400

OK, so it's been more than 48 hours since I sent off the PMs. I think we still have one Missing In Action, but the fight must go on. :hammer:

So it looks like our final roster is set. (Or we can hope!)


RB6 ROSTER:

Sirian
Arhiss
Zagaz
Sadan --- UP NOW!
Garath -- On Deck

Alternates:
* weakciv
* rabhison

Retired:
* Jkaen
* Anjinsan (missing in action)


Sadan, the next ten are yours. Make us proud. :)


- Sirian

Tokugawa does not like us enough for open borders ...well...he shall pay for that!!


Toku is by far the hardest AI to get Open Borders with.
On the downside this makes him a very annoying neighbour if you troops get trapped by his borders.
On the upside he is usually a) very unpopular so its not too hard to find allies against him and
b) he is most of the time a weak civ as he seldom trade with anyone and so hurt his own development.

Got it. Downloaded save and reviewing now. Let's hope I can keep the ball rolling and not drop it. Report back soonish.

The 10 turns are complete. Here they are:

Turn 0 (1400BC)

Review game, everything looks set and ready to go.
Umm'ing and ahh'ing whether to actually push settler over to Japanese island to claim marble or go for Blue Dot instead.
Distance Maintenance is probably the biggest factor here. In fact, I think the Distance Maintenance will outweight the marble benefit for now as it will probably diminish our research capability greatly in the short-term considering we are already at -1gpt at 100% research and +2gpt at 90%. A difference of 3gpt and the distance maintenance will most probably wipe that out so we'd have to drop back to most likely 80% research in the interim. Blue Dot looks better to me for now. Opinions :confused: Am I :smoke: too much?
We do have Copper in our lands so with the wonders that we may not be able to build with the aid of Marble, we can give the half-production-copper-wonders a go.
Hit Enter.

Turn 1 (1360BC) - Ahhh, Normal Play Speed. This might take some getting used to as I always play Epic Speed...

Settler built and Paris resumes on building a Granary - I choose to leave it that way for now.
Settler moves towards Blue Dot which the game thoughtfully points out for me. :crazyeye:
Move warrior in SW in a westerly direction and find barb warrior's staring longingly at Sheep.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/1-Barbs.jpg
Put the Galley to sleep for now.
Masonry in 2 turns.

Turn 2 (1320BC)
Barbs seem to have a keen interest in the sheep.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/2-Barbs.jpg
I fortify the warrior in the forest and wait for them to come back (hopefully).
Nothing else on this turn. Masonry next turn.

Turn 3 (1280BC)
Masonry is discovered.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/3-Masonry.jpg
Start on Alphabet to enable tech trading (19 turns however) but intrigued by Sirian's comment when playing his turns:
Could be some metals out there, too. We should hope so!
Maybe Iron Working should come soon.
Paris completes the granary - Production changed to a Worker.
Orleans founded on Blue Dot. Production set to a Warrior.

Turn 4 (1240BC)
Rosette finished a Warrior. Set to build a Work Boat to net one of the fishies as Rosette is approaching health limit 3>5, next turn to be 4>5.
Move Warrior in Rosette to forest roughly in between Rosette and Paris to remove more of the fog.
Barbs stop being transfixed by the Sheep and start their way back around the coastline. Our warrior is hiding in the forest ready to lay the :hammer:
Worker finishes mine at Rosette. Move Worker to tile SE of Rosette to build a cottage.

Turn 5 (1200BC)
Nada, nothing, zilch, zero, bugger all...

Turn 6 (1160BC)
Civ4 pressures me to think about building a Library in Paris. Later, Civ4, Later!

Turn 7 (1120BC)
Barbs attack our Warrior hiding in the forest.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/4-Barbs_lying_around.jpg
Our warrior wins. At 1.2/2.0 strength. Set him to heal (in 4 turns).
Move barbs between Rosette and Paris further SE to uncover more of the fog. Nothing interesting sighted.

Turn 8 (1080BC)
Borders of Orleans expand. Ponies now in cultural boundaries.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/5-Orleans_expands.jpg
Will not move worker from Rosette to there as Worker is almost finished (3 turns) in Paris to connect ponies up.
Warrior moved into forest next to copper. Still nothing interesting.
Worker finishes cottage outside Rosette. Let's do a first - I'll build a road. I think the cities should eventually be all connected so I might as well start it off.

Turn 9 (1040BC)
Workboat finished in Rosette. Rosette starts on another settler (Due in 10).
Workboat moves to NW fishies. Nets next turn.
Move warrior further SE to see if there are any barbs. None. Good! :)

Turn 10 (100BC)
Move warrior back to tile adjacent to copper resource.
Worker finished road. Left worker active as this is my last turn and the next player can decide what to do there.
Workboat builds a net in NW fish tile.

Note: The boat over near the Japanese cannot move whatsoever.

Rosette should build another workboat soonish to net the other fish resource for a bonus to food and a help with commerce or maybe another settler once our commerce situation is stablised.
Paris will finish the worker next turn to stable those ponies for chariots (horse archers if necessary).

More Screenies and the save:

Western Empire
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/6-West.jpg

Eastern Empire
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/7-East.jpg

Demographics
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/8-Demographics.jpg

Note I will be away tomorrow night and most, if not all of Saturday. Back on Sunday (Australian EDST time +11GMT)

One reference posed by Zagaz I don't recognize... newb alert!!! :crazyeye:

1640BC and 1600BC: Ibid

Define Ibid please :)

One reference posed by Zagaz I don't recognize... newb alert!!! :crazyeye:



Define Ibid please :)


It's Latin for "ditto"

Lurker's lame joke: I thought it was a kind of bird...

Got It.

However, I've run out of Civ time today finishing Epic One instead, so I'll get to it tomorrow afternoon GMT.

--Garath

Distance Maintenance is probably the biggest factor here.

That's a factor for sure. The biggest factor, in my view, is defensibility. Planting a city on the other guy's continent means a vast uphill struggle to defend the site if war breaks out... and invites war in some cases. It is not enough just to plant one's flag and expect the AI to respect it. On higher difficulties, at least, they won't. And we don't even have Archers to send along with it? I wouldn't try to make that move with less than three Archers (or better units) to send along.

Grabbing the islands between the two continents, to cut off their boat access across the passage, however, would have been a good idea. There are fish in the area to feed such a town (and supply people for Slave-based production).


Anyway, we're moving along. My thought about the Copper is that it's probably not enough to change the dotmap. We can pull in the copper by planting a city at Yellow Dot and waiting for its borders to expand to 100 culture. We should consider doing that soon, but it would be good to explore the south shore of our continent to see what seafood may be out there. That could impact our plans in any number of ways.


- Sirian

Why are we going for Alphabet? To enable tech trades? Unfortunately for that plan, we only know one AI, and it's Tokugawa, who doesn't trade. I'll have a look once I can get to the save whether something else will advantage us more right now, the great thing about Civ 4 is that switching away won't lose our progress on Alphabet for when we do need it. :D

From the screenies, we have all but a single tile of our island defogged at the moment, and there's a warrior in place to get that next turn, so I don't have to worry about barbs anymore. Never fear though Sirian, I will build some military. If only to get one unit in each city to help them stay happy.

This is only Noble, so the city upkeep penalties really aren't all that harsh, so we should be able to settle most if not all of our continent in the first expansion push. I'll see what I can do about getting us some more settlers out, therefore. I'll divert the galley, which doesn't appear to be doing anything right now, over to bust the fog south of our island, which it should be able to do before Rosette's settler pops, to get full information on where it should go.

I won't be playing for a few more hours yet, if this happens to intersect with anyone's time zone and they want to comment.

--Garath

Inherited Turn:
I send the galley off, and set the worker at Rosette to road the mined hill there. I'm surprised to see that without a road already, not roading hills and forests wastes worker turns far more than flatlands, and I very much doubt there was that much urgency when this was done. Regardless, there isn't much else to do there, so I do that. There seem to be nearly half a dozen such tiles at Paris too, surely they can't all have been so urgent, particularly the one outside the city's radius?

As I said, I don't think Alphabet will do much for us right at the moment since we only know Tokugawa. I could take Mathematics for a run at the Hanging Gardens, but looking at our lands I think we're far more likely to have a happiness shortage than a health, so they don't look so useful. It would still get us closer to Currency and Constuction, though, so not useless. Mysticism might be nice, we ought to try to get some use out this Industrious trait at some point, after all. Iron Working isn't a massively high priority either since we have Copper, and Metal Casting would just take too long. So I set research to Mysticism.

Early:
Paris finishes a worker. Its growth in 4 turns will drop the time to produce a settler by 2-3 turns, so I think it's worth letting it grow out. I decide to put 4 turns of production on a lighthouse, since if we take the Great Lighthouse we'll get a fairly significant commerce bonus, on this map. I start the worker off to connect the horses up for Orleans, painful though it is to see all those unroaded tiles around.

Judaism is founded in a distant land.

Orleans begins its work boat.

Mid:
Mysticism -> Polytheism. I think it's worth taking a run at the Oracle, we should be able to swing something nice from it. Code of Laws, for example.

Stonehenge built in a distant land.

Oracle built in a distant land (850BC). Huh. So much for that, then. I've clearly got a warped estimation of both how slow Noble is and just how many turns have passed so far in this game, I thought there was a fair bit of time left before that was likely to happen.
I think about it for a while, and decide to finish off Polytheism to leave the option of the Parthenon open for later players, we'll have a hell of a GPP factory in Rosette later on if we want it and that would be a significant boost to it.

Late:
Rosette finishes Settler, set to Work Boat for the other fish. Now seems as good a time as any to show you what the galley exploring the waters to the south has found:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/RB6newcrabs.JPG

There's actually a significant island here in the south, which is something of a pity since it wastes two tiles from Yellow Dot as ice that would otherwise have been far more productive water, and there's a really badly placed crab. Settling Yellow Dot on the original location will make it completely impossible to place a city in a place that will get those crabs.

We could either keep the dotmap as planned, using the island White Dot rather than mainland so as to block Tokugawa (potentially significant, I think), and simply forgo those crabs. Or we could shift Yellow Dot three tiles West, where it would retain one of the two deer and get the Copper in range, use the mainland White Dot to avoid wasting the other deer from the original Yellow Dot, and aim to place a city on Ice Island, presumably at Grey Dot. Serious fishing village, only worth it later, but it has the crab tile and would therefore not be entirely useless. White Dot would be the high priority site in the second plan, with three food bonuses.

I'm leaning in favour of keeping the original plan, myself, but since I think both have merits and the settler won't get to any of the above city sites on my turn, it's Sirian's choice. I'll send him off to the Yellow options, but he could equally be put on the Galley that will reach there about the same time as he does and sent to White. I'd think the one being built in Paris would be better for that, though.

Turn 10 (750BC):
Polytheism finishes. I choose Iron Working both to see if we have Iron and for the Compass line to get off this icy rock, but no beakers have been put in yet. I know it's a bit of a cop-out, but I've left the settler unmoved, currently sitting on the western option for Yellow Dot, and the warrior to his NE as either MP for the new city or to return to his fog-watching duties. The galley's in place so that you can get the settler on it next turn if you want.

The pasture on the horses has just finished, I've sacrificed growth in Orleans in order to work it and get the Work Boat out faster, for better growth in the long run.

Rosette has reached happiness limit, so will probably want to go back to workers/settlers once it finishes the work boat; it'll be really good at them with three food bonuses and a mined hill. Whipping will be in order if you do anything else.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/RB6rosette.JPG

Save in separate post due to being on a different computer to this report. Have fun!

And here's the save, 750BC. (blast, the image links in the above post do not appear to have worked. Rereading Sirian's explanation...)

EDIT: Fixed them. All done.

The upload server is slow and finicky at the moment. Hope that clears up later.

Anyway, there -is- a way to get our boat out of there, of course.

And since we drew the xenophobe as neighbor, what the heck.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/rb6-sirian-1.jpg

I'll be back with the rest of my second round when the upload server is more cooperative. :)


- Sirian

You really do get a buzz out of leaving people hanging, don't you, Sirian? :rolleyes: But of course, our glorious military of what, four? No, a whole Five Warriors, I think, couldn't possibly fail to be enough in such awesome hands as yours, right? Right? :king: :p

I don't think it would have been particularly wise for me to do that on my turns, since I didn't have the ability to whip chariots in case of Tokugawa actually having Sailing already that you do, but I still wish I'd thought of it.
The Annals of the Five Warrior War shall go down in history!

Should be fun! Especially for the guy following you in the order... how you feeling Arhiss? :lol:

And I certainly do hope the Uploads server starts working again soon. The sooner this gets moving again, the better my odds of getting another round in before I go home for Christmas.

--Garath

PS on a completely unrelated note, do you find that good relations are a little easier to achieve on Archipelago maps, since there's far less likelihood of major penalties for close borders?

You really do get a buzz out of leaving people hanging, don't you, Sirian? :rolleyes: But of course, our glorious military of what, four? No, a whole Five Warriors, I think, couldn't possibly fail to be enough in such awesome hands as yours, right? Right? :king: :p

[snip]

Should be fun! Especially for the guy following you in the order... how you feeling Arhiss? :lol:


The man is positively sadistic I say!:devil: As far as how I feel? :help:

EDIT -- I managed to fix my images in my earlier posts for those who care ;)

IT 750BC: We have no army. :eek:

So of course, that's the perfect time to declare war. :lol:

Got to keep you people on your toes, don't you know. :whipped:


Seriously, though. Getting a work boat trapped on the far side of the moon wasn't part of the original idea. That work boat was supposed to explore a little bit, then BE IN PLACE by the time borders expanded at Pink Dot(TM) to begin working one of the Fish immediately.

The idea behind skipping the archers was that we'd build some Chariots. But instead of the second city cranking settlers, we built THREE (and a half) of them out of the capital and the capital hasn't even maxed its population yet? Wow. :smoke:

'Tis OK, though. That's why we're playing on Noble, so there is room to spare. The team did a number of good things. We did get the cities moving well. We did settle in good locations. We did adapt the dotmap when a surprise turned up. We did suppress barbarian appearance by stationing guards.

The thing we probably failed the worst at is the tech. Seems like each player who came along had a different plan, and the net result is that I pick up my turn and our strategy is in disarray.

* We could have gone for the Great Lighthouse, but that would have meant doing something other than using Paris for settler production for 2000 years.

* We could have gone for the Great Library, but Alphabet got vetoed in mid stream.

* We could have targetted some very early forest chops, but we stopped building workers.

* We researched Writing early but drew a dud neighbor and then didn't use forest chops to get a quick Library going.

* The Oracle plan might have worked (any of these plans might have worked) but folks didn't start it early enough.


Civ4 has lots and lots of valid paths from which to choose, but the game can flounder if a team's house is divided. Civ3 allowed for more moving all around the board, so to speak, since you could change build orders at will, and teams weren't conducting research: they'd sit on the cash and buy or steal their techs on the spur of the moment, when a good n-fer trade came along.

Civ4 succession games, I think, will involve a bit more art than that. Even if you think the previous guy's efforts went in a direction other than you would choose, you have to figure out when it's better to keep going on what he started than it would be to start over on something else.

That's what I get when I look at this save. It feels like people kept starting over. ... Not a big deal, but something to ponder. The one thing that doesn't work very well in Civ4 is indecision. There are many strategies and many more short term strategical moves, but they all require some degree of focus to be successful.

Finding a good balance between correcting course if the previous momentum is not heading in an ideal direction, and following through on the existing momentum, is what will make Civ4 SG-ing a stronger experience than with Civ3. It will also, I believe, make it more of a challenge. Teams will have to work well together to thrive.


We have NO BARRACKS, none started, four cities to defend, and a grand total of five unpromoted Warriors. We are the penultimate paper tiger. :lol: Even without the war with Tokugawa, this must be fixed. Even though we are on an island, we're inviting trouble not to build some decent military.

MILITARY IS CHEAP. Military is so riduculously cheap that you can build a barracks and train five veteran swordsmen to go take two cities from somebody cheaper than you can train two settlers and two single, unpromoted archers to go along with them.

None of you guys is going to survive on Monarch if this is the kind of military you are fielding at 750BC. Just giving you the straight story on that point. :)


So here are my goals for this round.

1. Rescue the Lost Fishermen(TM) from the far side of the moon.

2. Poke Tokugawa in the eye and say, "Neener neener." :p

3. Build a barracks.

4. Connect the Copper.

5. Research Archery, then try to make something good from the techs we have on hand.


As for our "brave" work boat crews, I order them to scout out the Japanese capital.

"Feeling lucky today, punks?" :eek:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/rb6-sirian-2.jpg

Woops. Guess not. :lol:

Oh One More Thing(TM)...

On the question of "how much military is enough"... You guys all read RB1. You may recall that at several points earlier in the game, Sulla remarked on how much military we had. "I thought we had enough." "We've got enough." "Why does Sirian want more?" ... Then the war came. :lol:

So here's a good rule of thumb. If you've got enough military around that Sulla thinks you've got too much... THEN you know you're getting warm. ;)

And guys... this situation is Kinetically Challenged(R). :rotfl:

Brrr. :cool:


- Sirian

IBT 750BC: I press next turn, and...

Sometimes it's better to be lucky than good. :cooool:

Look at them. The so-called "mighty Japanese navy", cowering in port. :lol:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/rb6-sirian-3.jpg

That's right. We bad. Uh huh.

pH34r the MIGHT of our unbeatable navy. You know you don't want a piece of this. :hammer:


725BC: Our Work Boat stares death in the face, then calmly rows away.

Too bad the Japanese Navy weren't those kind of pansies in real life.
I think the Battle of Midway is one of the ultimate examples of "lucky than good".

Lyons founded on the south shore.


675BC: Rosette.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/rb6-sirian-4.jpg

Note that the anger is the SAME for whipping multiple pop points as for a single.
Thus you WANT to whip multiple points when you can, at super-food cities!
Get a higher food-to-shields conversion rate within the same anger management course.


650BC: Here's our situation at home.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/rb6-sirian-5.jpg

FIVE REGULAR WARRIORS. No barracks.
All three new cities need to get granary and lighthouse in place before doing too much else.
That leaves Paris for training a few troops.

Forest is being chopped at Pink Bullseye.
If you found a city on a forest, the forest goes to waste.
So chopping it before the settler arrives will pull free shields to a city!
Both of these sites should be chopped first. Shields are in short supply!


600BC: No sign of Tokugawa. He's ignoring our war declaration as a phony.
The AI will no longer automatically drop its own plans if favor of beelining at you.
They won't go on offense unless they have enough forces to threaten to make real gains.

DON'T BE LULLED. If we do see them, they will come with a couple of shiploads.
We need enough units to deal with them. We have time, though.
Also, with passage of time, they may accept peace at some point.
Or more likely, if we fight them and kill a few units, then they'll want peace.


550BC: The mine at Lyons is about to complete.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/rb6-sirian-6.jpg

It helped that I converged our two workers on the site.
This is literally all our workers have been doing for my whole round!


525BC: The new worker from Rosette is chopping the forest at Pink Bullseye.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/rb6-sirian-7.jpg

These shields should NOT go to yet another worker or settler.
That city is long on food and short on shields.
Most of the chop will carry over to the next item.
So make it a granary or a barracks, please. (Either is good!)

500BC: Just like that, my round is over. Wow, that wen't quick. :cool:

* Paris made it to size 6 and finished its barracks.

* The copper is connected.

* Trained a Work Boat and whipped a Granary at Orleans.

* Trained a Work Boat and whipped a Lighthouse at Rosette.

* Trained a Worker at Rosette and almost another. Set up a forest chop.

* Sent our galley to pester the Japanese


Here's the new normal back home:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/rb6-sirian-8.jpg

Green Box, there's a worker building a road.
Make SURE that the road finishes on your first turn, before you send the other worker to the Deer.

Red Boxes are wasted tiles, meaning those yellow forests are ripe for plucking.
Get the Deer hooked up first, though!
Need to chop White Dot, too.

One of the things you often have to realize is that settlers slow you down!
You can choose wonders or settlers, but not both at the same time.
Sometimes the extra settlers are what needs to wait!
I doubt we will get the Great Lighthouse.
However, we SHOULD try for Colossus and/or Great Library!
You have to bite the bullet for either, though, and research some pricey techs!

If you've been paying attention to the screenies... (You have, right? :cooool: ... Right?)
...then you have seen my research choices.

Happiness is in short supply, and previous player spent our research on the religion branch.
Before that, someone spent research on Writing.
It was just a hop from there to go for Confucianism.
Even if we don't get it, the courthouses will help.
It seemed like something useful to do while we wait on our civ to build stuff we already have access to!


As for the West... two options.

Plan A: settle in a way that tries to extend our reach westward, island hopping style.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/rb6-sirian-9.jpg

It would have to be Orange Dot.
Red X is hopeless, and Red Dot need 100 culture to expand far enough to open the way.
Settling ON the sheep is a gamble, a bet that there is a passage to the west.
If there isn't, then we'll have sacrificed city quality on a failed gambit.

Plan B: forget trying to advance to the west, and make the most of the area.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/rb6-sirian-10.jpg

Settle Green Dot and leave the red zone unsettled until later in the game, when we can fund a crappy city.


Plans A and B are both valid. One's a big gambit, the other is the conservative move.

We don't have to choose for a little while, but it won't be too long.
Rosette is a powerful settler/worker producer!

We don't want to squander the half-built settler at Paris.
But it's a fairly safe bet that that's the last settler it should make for a while!
I put some military units in line ahead of the settler.
You can click on the items to remove them from the queue if desired.


The Japanese have built a Lighthouse at Tokyo. You can literally see it on the map!

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/rb6-sirian-11.jpg

Our ship should park on the Gray Dot and dare them to remove us.
Blockade their city for as long as we remain at war!
(Or until they send enough ships to move us out of there!)


RB6 ROSTER:

Sirian
Arhiss --- UP NOW!
Zagaz
Sadan
Garath

Alternates:
* weakciv
* rabhison

Retired:
* Jkaen
* Anjinsan (missing in action)


- Sirian


EDIT: Rosette whipped seven or eight turns ago. It will be ready to whip again shortly.
Need one turn of production in on an item to whip the rest at non-ripoff prices.

Best deal would be to start a granary or barracks, with the forest chop carry-over,
then SWITCH to the other item, put one turn in on that, WHIP two pop points!
Then let the half-built item finish.
Up to you, though. :)

Got it, doing turns now ;)

Ok here goes!

IT -- Not much happens.

475 BC: Road completed near lyons as planned, sent one worker off toward deer. Set worker that was chopping near Rosette to making a road from the corn to the farm to it's SE. Plan is to have corn already hooked up and speed settler travel to the new site.

450 BC: Worker finished in Rosette; start on Barracks. Will let that run 1 turn, then switch to Granary and break out the :whipped: The worker heads towards where white dot will be to chop. The 2 workers near Lyons are going to hook up the other deer there and do some chops in our "wasted tiles" section. Chariot Finished in Paris, leave unpromoted and sitting in Paris as a quick reaction force. If we want to move it elsewhere we can, but from paris, we have access to the road network to speed us on our way.

425 BC: Quiet. Switch Rosette over to Granary, start oiling the whips for future use.

400 BC: Toku sends more archers to stare at our "mighty fleet" off the shores of Tokyo. Rosette magically finds the wherewithal to finish Granary next turn. (wonder how that happened??:satan:)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/RB6-Arhiss-1.JPG

375 BC: Paris finishes Axeman; starts on settler.

350 BC: Livy completes his work - "The most powerful civs". We rank 6th.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/RB6-Arhiss-2.JPG

Confucionism is FIDAL. So much for rushing to code of laws for that. However it can perhaps serve as a jumping off point for something else. We're REALLY behind the 8-ball as far as tech goes.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/RB6-Arhiss-3.jpg

Worker at Lyons starts on the last bit of road to hook up deer and connect him to road network. You'll also notice I'm very slowly bleeding our bank account dry trying to push some research. Will need to adjust science down again soon.

325 BC: Lyons completes granary, starts on Lighthouse.

300 BC: Cash reserves at 4 gold, dropping at 1/turn. Can still get a 1 turn advantage leaving it this way, but since we can't use gold to rush anything yet, and aren't near currency to use it in other ways, I'm "using" the cash to speed our reasearch that little bit extra. Rosette finishes barracks, starts on Archer (more military!).

275 BC: The latest forest chop has generated a 25 shield overflow for Paris's settler. Paris is also at max happiness, so could pull something similar to what we did with Rosette (use surplus, switch, whip, then complete).

250 BC: Paris completes Settler. Overflow plus shields will give us a lighthouse in 1 turn, with a 3 shield overflow. I'd suggest getting a library running ASAP afterwards (use the whip!) we need to catch up in the tech race.

Orleans completes lighthouse; starts on Archer (can veto, we can TRY for great lighthouse in 22 turns, though I'm not confident at all we'd get it). A forest chop that finished this turn dropped the archer's completion to 1 turn -- I'd say let the archer complete at this point.

The fishing boat is in place right outside of white dot, settler to arrive in 3 turns.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/RB6-Arhiss-4.JPG

There are 2 worker's in the forest area that I'll leave un-moved so the next player has some flexibility.

Last thing I do is set research to 80% -- I've lost the 1 turn advantage, and now 80% breaks even for us. No more slow slide to bankruptcy! :mischief:

Here's some info screenies:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/RB6-Arhiss-5.JPG

And

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/RB6-Arhiss-6.JPG

And a shot of our Lands:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/RB6-Arhiss-7.JPG

And finally the save:

The idea behind skipping the archers was that we'd build some Chariots. But instead of the second city cranking settlers, we built THREE (and a half) of them out of the capital and the capital hasn't even maxed its population yet? Wow.

I believe it was Two (and a Half), actually, since the one I left you was from Rosette, but I'll take the rap for that half. I've tended to undervalue libraries, forgetting that the science boost from the palace makes one in the capital high priority.

As to training Chariots, how was I mean to do that? I spent my ENTIRE ROUND hooking up the horses so you could! Rest assured, I had every expectation of that being the end of our gambit and that the next couple of players would build us some military.

All I could have built was more unpromoted warriors (well, and a barracks in the capital rather than that settler. I accept that one). Did you really want that? :confused:

As to the switch away from Alphabet, I knew full well that was a tough move. I think if it'd been ten turns earlier against the rest of the world like I seem to have thought it was, that could have been hailed as a great move, when you built the Oracle. Give me the rap for getting the boundary between supporting the previous player's decision and changing it wrong, not for not realising there was a decision to make.

I stand by my comment that the tech trading at Alphabet was (and still is) useless. I even carefully looked at the tech to make sure it didn't give us anything else as well. Had I registered that it led on to the Great Library... I might have made a different choice. My bad. :blush:

Oh, and one more thing:

None of you guys is going to survive on Monarch if this is the kind of military you are fielding at 750BC. Just giving you the straight story on that point.

I've got a couple of Monarch wins under my belt. To be sure, I've also got some losses, but I've won some, including the first one I played. And I assure you, I wouldn't have dreamt of running this thin on military with a land neighbour. But for damn sure I'd have built some had I had the ability to build more than regular warriors.

That concludes my comments to your comments, I guess. I'll comment on the two turnsets since then, but I'll do it in a separate post.

--Garath

PS: Possibly I've come across as disbelieving that you should correct me or unappreciative of the hints above. Believe me, that's not the case.:hatsoff: :goodjob: I'm just trying to use the opportunity to respond to gain a completer understanding.

Hmmm... I didn't know about the multiple pop point whipping thing. I'll bear that in mind. Slavery is really rather powerful when actually used, isn't it?

Long and short of it, most of what you've said makes sense, Sirian. Now you've said it. Now why can't I think of all those things... Practice, that's it! I'm not getting enough practice! I must play more Civ4! :lol:

As to the plans for the west, I like the gambit, personally. It does look like more coastline over there, and we'd score a big coup if it turned out to be anything decent. One vote for settling on the sheep, with something there to try exploring ASAP.

@Arhiss: Good work following through, it looks like. Looks generally good.

Is the 'Most Powerful' listing done on military, or something else, does anyone know?

Ouch at the founding of Confucianism :sad:

Does that leave us with a run at Philosophy, or do we pretty much have to give up on religion until we meet more AIs? I don't have a complete enough picture of our technological situation (or, for that matter, have the entire tech tree in my head) to know that.

I might have more comments later. Now I have to go have a life that isn't entirely lived in computers, unfortunately.

--Garath

Does that leave us with a run at Philosophy, or do we pretty much have to give up on religion until we meet more AIs?

Either way could work. We'll leave it up to the guys who take the turns. :)

Arhiss did a good job with all the chopping. I probably wouldn't whip the capital, though. It may cost more than it is worth, there. Slavery is best used at high food sites where translating some of the food in to shields is no big deal because the city will regrow the spent population quickly. At low food sites, it can be a net loser in most cases (though anywhere can gain from whipping a Granary or maybe a Lighthouse.)


By the way, I deliberately chose a leader with traits that aren't ideally suited for the map type we're playing. Between that and the lands, and apparently the competent opponents we're facing, this might be called "Noble Plus". :lol:


Can someone remind me if Zagaz is available this weekend? If so, he's up. If he said he'd be away, then Sadan is up.


- Sirian

Good luck guys. I hope there are some nice ice free islands within your grasp for settling soon. Oh and I hope you get some iron soon too ;)

Slavery is best used at high food sites where translating some of the food in to shields is no big deal because the city will regrow the spent population quickly. At low food sites, it can be a net loser in most cases (though anywhere can gain from whipping a Granary or maybe a Lighthouse.)

lurker's question: I've been practicing using the :whipped: since reading your comments. Whipping is probably one of my more weaker areas in [civ3] and now in [civ4] as well. A couple of questions if you have a moment.

What is your definition of a high food city? I've always viewed it as a city that has at least 3 excess fpt (ala a single food bonus tile). Or are you looking for a much higher excess fpt?

Whipping a granary or lighthouse makes sense, since they help the city grow faster. What about courthouses? Lets say you're swimming in debt with the research slider down around 50%, would you consider whipping a courthouse to get your finances in order?

Thanks!

A high food city (in my book) is one with two or three food resources. I'm talking 5+ surplus food per turn. (Rosette is a mainstream "high food city"). This typically means a coastal city light on shields with two or three seafood in range, but can mean a flood plains city or a city with irrigated rice and corn, or pigs, or any combination.

Cities with less than 4 fpt surplus should avoid heavy use of the whip. The reason they are low on food is because they are high on shields. If they are low on both food and shields, then that is a crappy location! You see some of those, but they will only be able to use the whip slowly. They can't do many of those three and four pop point "massive" projects. (The city has to get to size 8 to whip four pop points in one crack!) You can't just look at the food to regrow, but also at lost production from tiles you are no longer working. If you lose (for instance) a 4spt mine, then you will lose more shields in ten turns than you gained from the whip, PLUS the lost food! :eek: Don't do that. :smoke:

Slavery is my preferred Labor civic on maps with significant water and coastline, which an Islands game will be. I prefer Serfdom for major land maps, as there are more plots to improve, more high-shield tiles around, fewer high food tiles around, etc. Caste System is a special case with many uses but none of them as simple as the Slavery/Serfdom dynamic. Yet even when I do plan to switch to Serfdom asap, I will still make a pit stop in Slavery when I make the hop to Hereditary Rule, and get what I can out of the whip where useful.


- Sirian

Not having looked at the savegame recently, I don't know offhand if we have any of the prereq's for one of the other religions. I know that it's fairly easy to have the req's for Theocracy for example. If we had anyplace that was slowly making GPP's (no early wonders making Great Prophet points for us unfortunately) it could be possible to speedily get one of the more expensive religions.

Mostly I'm just musing aloud -- we don't have the setup to try to rush a religion at this point in the fashion described above, but I'm wondering if we need to 'set ourselves up for success' in some fashion in order to have a hope of founding a religion of some sort. To be honest, I've not played a game yet where I wasn't the founder of at least ONE religion, so I don't know how much of a handicap it would be going completely religionless. :confused:

Out of my musings one can draw a couple questions:

Do we need to go after a religion at all this game, or is it not a significant handicap to go only with religions acquired from the AI's?
Is our current tech handicap as big a deal as I am making it out to be in my mind?Thats about it for now, back to waiting for the next player to take their turn! :cool:

Sadan sent me a note saying that he has to pull out of RB6 due to heavy workload. So I'm moving him back to the Alternates roster. zagaz appears to be away, so we'll skip him this round. I'm moving weakciv to the regular roster. (All these roster moves... Now you know why I have Alternates on standby! New players sometimes don't realize what they are in for until they get going and see how much work it is. And sometimes people just have unexpected developments that pull them away.)

weakciv, you're up now, bud! :)


RB6 ROSTER:

Sirian
Arhiss
Zagaz -- skipped this round
weakciv -- UP NOW!
Garath -- On Deck

Alternates:
* rabhison
* Sadan


- Sirian

ok im at work now. I will download and play tonight.

If you need another alternate, I'm available. I am playing another SG, but it's the same one Sadan was :P

Ok first off, it is interesting to be in a game situation I did not create. I like the challange.
Let's just hope I can contribute effectively.

Inherited turn:
review situation.
wow difficult choice where to go from here. I want to try to boost our Research rate.

I hate MM but I manually configure Rosette to slow growth because they are at max happiness.
Still gonna fill food box in 5 turns but gets us 2 more beakers.
I whip the lighthouse at Lyons because it will grow back quick. ( :hammer: not on epic, not on epic, not on epic :hammer: )

Looking and Thinking, Thinking and Looking.
Bingo! I'm going to get (not try, succeed) the Great Lighthouse in Paris by the end of my turns.

I move the 2 inherited workers towards Paris (thank you btw) to start work on Mine and chops.
80% research is now +1gpt

Turn 1 (225bc):
I hate missing barracks ... so ...
Paris completes lighthouse starts Great Lighthouse
Orleans completes archer starts barracks
Lyons completes lighthouse starts barracks
white dot worker heads on mission to camp eastern deer

Turn 2 (200bc):
Founds Rheims at land white dot and begins lighthouse
workboat makes fishing boats at fish near Rheims
still happily blocking Tokyo. (watching and waiting for a Japaneese navy)
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/RB6_Watching_Toku.jpg

Turn 3 (175bc):
forest chops help Paris and Rheims

Turn 4 (150bc):
I believe a religion will help us greatly in the happiness department. We only missed code of laws by 4 turns so I begin on meditation (3) the pre-req for Philosophy. I know it is expensive to look to Philo now but I think we can get it.
Of course it may just be :smoke:

Classical Era (code of laws completes) starts meditiation.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/RB6_Classical.jpg

Caste System will not help us much right now because we are not able to afford many specialist now so I do not begin revolt and stick with Slavery.

Archer complete in Rosette, mannually adjust Rosette again to give us another hammer to start library. (grow in one turn now I will allow because the unhappy from a previous whip is gone.)
I do not promote the Archer as we are not in any real war and I dont want to force it into a city defender ... yet

Turn 5 (125bc):
Change to avoid growth in Paris because it is at its happy limit. This changes Great Lighthouse production from 6 to 5 turns and makes growth stagnant.
Change to avoid growth in Orleans because it is at its happy limit. This Changes Barracks from 7 to 5 turns and stagnant.
These choices end up changing the 80% reseach to -1gpt. We have 10g though so we should be good.

Turn 6 (100bc):
umm. Mine done near Paris. :D

Turn 7 (75bc):
Meditation complete begin Philosophy. :smoke:
Rheims expands
Chop completes near Paris dropping Great Lighthouse to 1 turn. [pimp]
Adjusts Rosette again (at max happy again) to slow growth to 6 turns but maintains hammers.

IBT:
Toku seeks peace. And well why not. We got our work boat back and wearieness will begin soon (i think) so i agree.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/RB6_Peace.jpg

Turn 8 (50bc):
Great Lighthouse is complete and ours. Coastal trade routs will help as soon as we know more civs or found more cities.
Um thought I had a screen of it but I dont. Just use your imagination. Ya, thats it.

Paris begins Axemen (we still need military but I didnt see any big advantage to over building on my round)
Worker begins camp near Rheims
Paris worker moves to create mine on hill near Orleans

Turn 9 (25bc):
um. Starts mine near Orleans.

IBT:
Toku completes Pyramids.

Turn 10 (1ad):
Axe done in Paris starts Library. Maybe change for more military. Next person can override if needed.
Baracks done in Orleans starts on Library. Maybe change for more military. Again override if needed.
Leave axe unpromoted but begin moving him toward Rheims. I forgot to provide defence to that city. Not something I ususally forget and I almost started my entire set of turns again just to correct that issue. But I decided that would not be the answer.

I set the govenor back on in Rosette and then whip the Library complete. Rosette can handle the whip because of the food it brings in.
I bump research up to 90% so we can run a few turns at deficit research this cuts 3 turns off of research but some of this may come back. Libraries may allow us to stay at or near 90%.

We should begin courthouses soon.


I would say that this is a small square of coast that is 1 ocean space away from our coast space.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/RB6_Coast.jpg

I forsee a future of taking over this city. But alas I just couldnt pull the trigger to pump out military. (not yet)
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/RB6_Aquire.jpg

Here is just some Demographic info
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/RB6_Demographics.jpg


:train whistle: NEXT!!!!!!!!

Built the wonder! Great work. :hammer:

Garath is up.


- Sirian

Got it to play in a couple of hours.

*** Note to self ***
Re-size images before posting ......

Right then, what have I got?
I've been handed a 5-city empire that's barely losing money at 90% research. It's in Slavery as the only non-basic civic.
Rheims has no defender. :nono: but Paris has a spare, so I can afford to send one over.

Looking at the Demographics, we're now first or second in all three production categories :D
but still dead last in soldiers, and only middling in Land Area and Population. The aims for my turn are therefore clear: Expand the civ both outwards to more cities (the economy can support it, and upwards isn't possible without more happy), and Build More Military.

I particularly want to get that gambit city on the sheep settled, if I can, or at least set it up to be done as soon as possible.

I've been handed a long run on Philosophy, so I shouldn't have to think too much about tech on my round, but hopefully I should be able to speed it up a bit, with Libraries completing in Rosette (just whipped) and Orleans, which I intend to whip once it has a turn in, as it's maxed on happy with little production.

Whipping Paris doesn't look so tempting, as it would lose quite a bit of production while it regrew. Since everywhere else appears to already be on infrastructure, I decide to build a couple of units out of Paris before going back for the library. Archer selected.

Turn 1(25AD):
Rosette: Library -> Settler (it's maxed on happiness at size 4 due to the whipping, and can build it in a mere 6 turns due to all the food surplus.
In other news, Tokugawa adopts Representation, making use of the Pyramids shown in weakciv's screenshot.

The galley is coming home, but will take a while to get anywhere useful.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/RB6galleyreturn.jpg

Since we've got at least one, probably two islands to settle and will want something to explore the possible route to the west, we'll want another galley at some point. I'll see if I can find time to build one at some point.

The second camp is started near Rheims, once those complete it should be a pretty solid city. It'll have exceptional food, and actually decent production as well from the camps.

I find that whipping the library in Orleans would cost 3 citizens, so I can't do it. I'll check it every turn and whip it at two, since all they're doing at the moment is being citizens. It should also speed up once the plains hill is mined, which is under way.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/RB6orl25.jpg

I notice that weakciv did, in fact, send a unit to be a defence for Rheims, an axe is on its way. Ah well, two units will do as well as one. On going back to his report to check what that axe was doing, though I notice this:

Leave axe unpromoted but begin moving him toward Rheims. I forgot to provide defence to that city. Not something I ususally forget and I almost started my entire set of turns again just to correct that issue. But I decided that would not be the answer.

:nono: :nono:
You can't do that. You get one playthrough. Reloading (one turn) for a misclick, maybe. But nothing more, and never for a mistake of judgement rather than a physical mistake. It's the same way we all play, without spoiler knowledge of what might happen, or what went wrong, to change our judgements.

Turn 2(50AD):
Paris: Archer -> Archer. I send the newly built one off towards Rosette to meet up with the settler under production.
Rheims finishes Lighthouse. I want to build a worker here, since it's only 6 turns at size 2, but it'll grow next turn, pull in the other soon-to-be-camp and finish even faster. I put one turn on the Granary so it can be whipped or returned to later.

Turn 3(75AD):
Lyons: Barrack -> Spearman. We don't seem to have any, and Tokugawa is probably entirely capable of sending over horse archers.

Camp finishes at Rheims. I order the mining of its plains hill for when it gets to size 4, and switch it to Worker as I said (due in 5).

Turn 4(100AD):
Paris: Archer -> Library. This one I leave in Paris. I feel I can afford to let it build infrastructure, especially some as useful as a Library, since I now have another city building units.

Turn 5(125AD):
Nothing interesting. I'll therefore give you a shot of the lands as a whole:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/RB6lands125.jpg

Hmm. I say nothing interesting. What I mean is I whip the Library in Orleans for 2 pop, one of which will regrow immediately.

Turn 6(150AD):
Orleans: Library -> Axeman. Thanks, whoever built the Barracks in most places. Overflow means that'll only take 4 turns.
I send a worker back over to the West, since the new city will want connecting, and a head start on the Camp down there at the last good city site on our island (the dot 4 due south of Rosette)

Turn 7(175AD):
Rosette: Settler -> Settler. One good site to claim, the city still can't grow anyway, and we should build the settlers from the massively high food city.
Growth at Lyons gives us 1 more gold, temporarily leaving us breaking even at 90%. Never fear, though, I'll soon found another city and put paid to that! ;)

Turn 8(200AD):
Rheims: Worker -> Granary (for real this time). I have it on more growth than production right now though since I've returned the horse tile to Orleans, at least while it's building military. Rheims can be left to grow out to 5, which it'll do PDQ with all that food, and then either whipped or set back to higher production at your will. That should be the last worker we need, too.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/RB6orl200.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/RB6rhe200.jpg

Turn 9(225AD):
Orleans: Axeman -> Archer.

Turn 10(250AD):
Lyons: Spearman -> Library. I'm not certain about that choice, though. (EDIT: second thoughts: Fishing Boat for the new city is probably better. The Library'll take too long as is.)
Tours founded in the gambit location, starts Lighthouse as the sea will provide its only 2 food tiles, and Creative will expand the borders well enough to attempt the crossing on its own.
That forces the turning down of research to 80%, at +1gpt.

Post-game analysis and save in next post due to image limit.

--Garath

The state of play:
The West:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/RB6west250.jpg
You see there the new city, the defences both in and heading to it (nobody required to bust fog anymore, the expanded borders cover it now) and the worker that's just finished the first road heading off in that general direction. I've left another just SE of the corn in the north ready to head down to do things in that area as well.
You also see the galley that's been beelining over here my entire round. It should reach the potential crossing almost precisely as the Creative trait expands the borders at Tours.
The settler at Rosette is due soon, I believe the plan was for the location marked as Green Dot on that picture, leaving us with only one half-city left to found on our main island after that (at Orange Dot). There's no defence in place for the settler yet, unfortunately, but none of the cities have fewer than two units now so it should be possible to find some.

The East:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/RB6east250.jpg
There isn't actually so much to tell about this one, it just lets people keep a good general idea of our current state.

The Demographics:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/RB6demo250.jpg
As you can see, I've managed to make some progress on the army size, though we're still low down the table (behind Tokugawa, not that that's a surprise). I haven't managed as much difference on the land/pop as I'd hoped, but I guess there's only so much one can do in 10 turns.
More notably, though, we've lost out on GNP. I'd guess that's because the AIs are starting to get cottages up and running, whereas we don't have the lands for it. We may need to push for the Colossus, if we've still got time to get it, as well as expanding to some better lands.

General thoughts:
Rosette's whipping unhappiness should run out this turn, so once the settler finishes it's a blank slate for you, Sirian.

I didn't find the time to build that Galley, but it's not needed yet, and either Orleans or Paris can do so fairly quickly when it's wanted.

There are still 11 turns on the Philosophy run, my 10 only took 12 off that. There are more libraries unbuilt, so it should finish on Sirian's turn. Taoism is still available.

I think there were more things, but unfortunately I failed to note them down and can't remember what they were. I might just be being paranoid, though.

--Garath

And the save.

On another note, I'm going home to my parents' for Christmas from tomorrow until just before New Year, and they don't have a computer capable of playing Civ4 there. (all Macs.)

Therefore if the game's still going over the holidays and gets back to me before then, I guess I'll have to take a skip. :sad: I'll still be online to discuss, so I'll let you know if the above isn't the case.

--Garath

(EDITed to actually include the save. :rolleyes: )

You can't do that. You get one playthrough. Reloading (one turn) for a misclick, maybe. But nothing more, and never for a mistake of judgement rather than a physical mistake. It's the same way we all play, without spoiler knowledge of what might happen, or what went wrong, to change our judgements.

Ya, i know. :sad: That is why I decided that was not the answer.

On a side note, the Taoism leap might work. :crosses fingers:

hopefully the instructor of this course can give is some more enlightenment about the route we are currently on.

Quick question, looking at the screenshots, are the cities still being micromanaged? I don't see the highlighted computer screen to the upper right of the emphasis buttons in the more recent screenshots.

Course I just might be having too much of the :smoke: -- is that only for allowing the city to allocate specialists?. I'm at work so I can't check in game -- otherwise I'd just avoid making myself look like a fool :D

And the save.

Due to Epic One reporting, I won't get to this today. Might try and slip it in tomorrow. Sounds like we have had a better second round, though! Good work, guys. :)


- Sirian

Arhiss: I have to admit to not being entirely sure of the precise effects of that button. What I therefore tend to do is change what tiles/specialists a city has if I want them changed, and assume the computer will usually pick a decent one on growth. I tend to check how things are if I actually have reason to look at a city, but not otherwise.

Sirian: I've remember one more thing I wanted to say. Just a heads-up that the majority of our cities currently have Avoid Growth checked, which is something I don't always remember to keep an eye on, so I can't guarantee it's perfect.

I think it's fine, but I guess it'll bear checking.

--Garath

I used to MM almost each city in Civ3 because I seriously hated the govenors in that one. In Civ4 I have found them to be great. Other than for some specific situations like totally avoiding growth sometimes and specific starvation building :hammer:

never mind ....

IT 250AD: Everything looks good. I take cities off of Avoid Growth option, though. I only tend to use that when a city is maxed on population. If I want to temporarily halt growth, it's typically during peacetime, and I don't have to worry about enemy units moving through my land, messing with my micromanaged tiles. (Avoid Growth works with the governor ON, so he will put your tiles back in order for you after hostiles pass through, for instance.)

You guys do realize, I hope, that Angry Citizens can be used as slaves the same as regular citizens? All shall work when the King so commands. :whipped: :king: (At least under institutionalized slavery.)

Everything seems to be marching along. So I begin my round.

275AD: Paris completes Library, starts Parthenon. (Worth a shot, I think.) I order two of our workers in the area to move to forests. Either we will finish the Parthenon with the help of chopping our remaining forests, or we'll get a bunch of gold from a failed attempt and can fund deficit research. So here goes.


325AD: Massive slavery operation on assembling a Library at Lyons. 3 pop points!

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/rb6-sirian-13.jpg

Now that's how to use "advanced slavery techniques" on water-based maps. This can also help on higher difficulty in happiness-crunched situations. If you've got the food, you've got the production! :hammer:


400AD: Religiosity in force! Wow. (Also, Marseilles has been settled.)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/rb6-sirian-14.jpg

Now for the big news...

OUR GAMBIT HAS PAID OFF IN SPADES!

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/rb6-sirian-15.jpg

Cha-ching! :D

You know what I say: Fortune favors the bold! :cooool:

The barbs have Walls around that city, though, so it could be tough to take.
Might take some time and even some losses.
I'm sure we can do it, though. And sure it will pay off for us!


475AD: MASSIVE slavery project at Rosette. Whipping FOUR POP POINTS! :eek:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/rb6-sirian-16.jpg

Say hello to 120 shields of production, baby, yeah.


EDIT: Overlooked this item. We met Asoka!

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/rb6-sirian-12.jpg

Friendly chap, good neighbor. (Possible source of Votes for us, one day?)
I Opened our Borders to the good people of India.



500AD: End of my round, and yes, we are first to discover Philosophy! :woohoo:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/rb6-sirian-17.jpg

We have entered the middle ages.
(Cue the chanting and soprano-singing Christian music! :jesus: )
(I'm not poking fun. I think the middle ages music is cool. Great place to visit.)
(Soren is a big music fan, and some of these music selections were pretty bold.)

The last forest chop will add another 45s to the project. I'm hopeful that we get it.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/rb6-sirian-18.jpg

The city can be allowed to gr