Easy question -- should we ask Thunderfall for a subforum for citizen groups and political parties?

My opinion is yes we should ask for this. The political traffic in the citizen forum has had a tendency to swamp the actual game discussion threads.

No, if we can keep them to one thread, it won't take up much space. I am guessing most of the will probably die anyway...

I like the idea for a political subForum, it allows different parties to branch out more and really be political. It also allows people who dont want to deal with the political termoil to stay out of that forum.

I for one believe a political sub-forum would be a good idea.

I don't see the need for a new sub-forum.

-the Wolf

I would like to change my earlier stated opinion, and say that YES I believe we definitely need a political sub-forum.

-the Wolf

who's gonna ask TF? censor, will you set up a poll?

I'll start a poll on whether we should have a new sub-forum.

-the Wolf

Like GA said, interest in each party will probably die, or just a few remain active, do we really need one? i think we dont.

I haven't visited the citizen's sub-forum for sometime now because I know that everything there is political party stuff. I'm all for giving them their own forum.

Sub-forum has my two cents! But maybe after the couple of terms so that we know which parties are going to stay active.

You know what, now I'm for it.

These citizens group things are getting out of hand...they take up WAY too much space in this forum. They don't really have any purpose, but let them have their own forum so I can come to the citizens' forum and actually read discussion, not people talking about their party in a thread that so far hasn't done anything.

[/rant]

Come on GA, we're talking about great stuff in the Idiot Partee. ;)

I'm all for having a political group sub forum. But who can set that up? How do we contact that person and ask them?

Someone (the Censor?) can PM Thunderfall or Chieftess/Rik Meleet who will contact TF.

Let's call the subforum "Fun & Games" and just rename the existing warmup game forum. That way it doesn't take up any more space than we already have, and we can hold other events in there like a DGers PBEM.

I'll volunteer to handle the request, once we've decided exactly what we want to do.

Pleeeeeeease... When only one of the first thirteen threads in the forum have something to do with game discussion, I find less and less initiative to come here and post!

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/So_Many_Party_Threads1.JPG

I PM'd Rik and Chieftess, and got no response. Since there has been no significant comments against this reorganization, I guess I'll have to contact Thunderfall myself. :mischief:

Actually, just to make it more legal and more formal, I think I'll hold a quick info poll (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=156926) first.

We take enough from TF, with the Demogame Forums.. the MTDG's. Asking him of more is insulting.

It's is not insulting, it is helpful.

If by getting a subforum for Citizen Groups, we thus make the discussion more accessible and prominent, thus increasing participation, and therefore making the DG even better. Why would he take insult to a proposal that will help his forums?

We should not have to feel that we cannot approach him if there is a reasonable request.

It's is not insulting, it is helpful.

If by getting a subforum for Citizen Groups, we thus make the discussion more accessible and prominent, thus increasing participation, and therefore making the DG even better. Why would he take insult to a proposal that will help his forums?

We should not have to feel that we cannot approach him if there is a reasonable request.

Or we can up our organization skills (or acutally make some in this aspect), thereby increasing efficiency inside of the forums we have, and make do with what we have.

If we can't manage what we have now decently, we shouldn't get more.

So far, 100% of the people who have voted support the idea of a separate forum. The raw number is almost 1/3 the total votes in the election, and not even a full 24 hours have passed.

The new version of vBulletin has made it much easier to accomodate requests of this kind than it was back in DG3 thru DG5. On top of that, I have a good track record for getting what I ask for. I'm not going to guarantee that Thunderfall will go for it, but previous results suggest that I'm justified in being confident. There is a fair amount of potential work for Chieftess and Rik Meleet, and I have a plan for dealing with that issue if it comes up. :cooool:

Or we can up our organization skills (or acutally make some in this aspect), thereby increasing efficiency inside of the forums we have, and make do with what we have.

If we can't manage what we have now decently, we shouldn't get more.

"Make do with what we have."

Using your logic, when the very first demogame started in one lonely thread by TheDuckOfFlanders, it should've stayed that way. They should've just increased their organization in that thread, and made do with what they had. If they couldn't manange with they had, then they should've have gotten more.

However, they DID get more, because they thought it would HELP. See what happened? We shouldn't be constrained to what we have now. Things change over time. One such change is the wax and wane of the RPG forums. Another, current one, is the Citizen Groups - let's accomadate them, not stick to old standards.

So your philsophy is just to beg for something every time you need it? Retire all possibilities beforehand, if it still doesn't work... then ask for it. Were just taking the easy path out.

Also, what happens when political parties/citizen groups become inactive? We just have an empty and wasted forum, because in a moment of insecurity we decided we needed it?

I've seen this circle before, and I don't like where it's going.

So your philsophy is just to beg for something every time you need it? Retire all possibilities beforehand, if it still doesn't work... then ask for it. Were just taking the easy path out.

Also, what happens when political parties/citizen groups become inactive? We just have an empty and wasted forum, because in a moment of insecurity we decided we needed it?

I've seen this circle before, and I don't like where it's going.

I see no moment of insecurity. This has been bouncing around for a long time, and i thought there was evern a yea poll for it. I respect you opinion, but Political parties aren't gonna vanish because a few people don't want them. The "problems" with polictical parties in this demogame are nothing more than imagined. If you don't like that a bunch of fun-loving supporters of the Alchol industry or what ever else you think is the problem, then rally against them, get out and do. but in your doing, do not ruin other peoples fun!

I see no moment of insecurity. This has been bouncing around for a long time, and i thought there was evern a yea poll for it. I respect you opinion, but Political parties aren't gonna vanish because a few people don't want them. The "problems" with polictical parties in this demogame are nothing more than imagined. If you don't like that a bunch of fun-loving supporters of the Alchol industry or what ever else you think is the problem, then rally against them, get out and do. but in your doing, do not ruin other peoples fun!

While allowing political parties to destroy other peoples fun? There is no need for them, if you want to have fun with your drunken buddies... we have citizen groups for that.

We've had political parties for what? A months now? People will get bored of them eventually, or get tired of the constant fighting over them. I predict, that every single political party, by the end of this game, will be inactive. My purpose has always been to help those at a disadvantage, and political parties only aid those that already have the advantage.

While allowing political parties to destroy other peoples fun? There is no need for them, if you want to have fun with your drunken buddies... we have citizen groups for that.

We've had political parties for what? 2 months now? People will get bored of them eventually, or get tired of the constant fighting over them. I predict, that every single political party, by the end of this game, will be inactive. My purpose has always been to help those at a disadvantage, and political parties only aid those that already have the advantage.

Yes, by giving the new players the advantage! There are so many more epople whose fun is CREATED by political parties than those whose fun is destroyed by them. You also maybe right in that all the current plictcal parties may be inactive by the end of the Demogame, but that does not mean there will not be more. If you bothered to read the post you quoted, you would see that. ALso if you read my post, you would see that this INFIGHTING that is so often claimed is nothing but a myth. In fact, (this will get me bashed), I think those who don't like political parties are those who feel secure in there Civ3 traditons, and Know that a new wave of new players, and will use political parties to there advantage to become powerful repected citiziens of the Demogame that may even displaced the oldies. Now i'm not saying that is the truth, but may be subconciously what is behind some peoples thinking.

Also, if there is a Civ4 MTG, one team could be Tri, one flex, and one wiht the Traditonal ruleset and no polictal parties. That would be awesome!!! :goodjob:

Yes, by giving the new players the advantage! There are so many more epople whose fun is CREATED by political parties than those whose fun is destroyed by them.

No point in discussing this, since those who's fun are destroyed by them won't stick around for long.

You also maybe right in that all the current plictcal parties may be inactive by the end of the Demogame, but that does not mean there will not be more. If you bothered to read the post you quoted, you would see that.

I said "Every single political party inside of this game will be inactive" (okay.. not in those exact words, but you get the idea). I should have worded it as this: "Every single political party, wether currently non-existant or existing will be inactive at the end of this game." I did not say that only the current one's will be inactive, I meant every single party that has been made and that will ever be made, including my own.

ALso if you read my post, you would see that this INFIGHTING that is so often claimed is nothing but a myth. In fact, (this will get me bashed), I think those who don't like political parties are those who feel secure in there Civ3 traditons, and Know that a new wave of new players, and will use political parties to there advantage to become powerful repected citiziens of the Demogame that may even displaced the oldies.

If this isn't "Infighting" then what is? Also, I've been inside of this game for nearly 3 years now, and have been "powerful" for basically all but two months of those three years. I've been here far to long to care on way or the other wether I win or lose an election, or even what the hell anyone else thinks about me. As I said before, I am more concerned with the newer plays, who many not like the idea of "political parties" and are unable to enjoy the game because of this.

We're getting a bit off the topic here.

The idea is to solve the immediate problem of group / party threads consistently dominating the 1st page of the citizen's forum. The relative merit of having or not having parties isn't at question here, and neither is the longevity of the parties.

If this isn't "Infighting" then what is? Also, I've been inside of this game for nearly 3 years now, and have been "powerful" for basically all but two months of those three years. I've been here far to long to care on way or the other wether I win or lose an election, or even what the hell anyone else thinks about me. As I said before, I am more concerned with the newer plays, who many not like the idea of "political parties" and are unable to enjoy the game because of this.

THat would be fighting between the supporters of political parties and the non-supporters of them. It can't be in fighting, because the only thing this is "in" is a post. If you wish to make this a Free Spirits against the world arguement, then there would be infighting, but the infighting would be instegated by those who say there is to much of it and wish it gone!, Thats like Cpaitalist oppressing the Proletrait, then complaining there is nothing to be done about the oprressing and its rampant, and we need a revolution! ;)

Check mate ;)

This i hope is all in good fun strider!!

We're getting a bit off the topic here.

The idea is to solve the immediate problem of group / party threads consistently dominating the 1st page of the citizen's forum. The relative merit of having or not having parties isn't at question here, and neither is the longevity of the parties.

I think the label you've given the suggested subforum in the poll is most accurate, DS. It's not just the political party threads, but the various "spammy" threads that are in there. I'd prefer to see the citizen's forum be more focused on game-related discussions. I don't want to see the exuberance of the newer players stifled though - that excitement has been long missing and is welcome to see. Moving that into an RPG subforum is both natural and will dramatically improve the signal/noise ratio for everyone.

-- Ravensfire

THat would be fighting between the supporters of political parties and the non-supporters of them. It can't be in fighting, because the only thing this is "in" is a post. If you wish to make this a Free Spirits against the world arguement, then there would be infighting, but the infighting would be instegated by those who say there is to much of it and wish it gone!, Thats like Cpaitalist oppressing the Proletrait, then complaining there is nothing to be done about the oprressing and its rampant, and we need a revolution! ;)

This i hope is all in good fun strider!!

You were talking about Political Party "Infighting," my mindset is centered around the individual... so any two people discussing political parties I consider as infighting. So we were thinking of the same word in two differant ways.

Point taken.

Not really in good fun, I'm serious about this. Do I blame you, or hold it against you? Not at all, your just simply misinformed (:lol:). Usually, the only time I get overly mad.. is when someone acts self-centered and only wishes to aid themselves. While, I could certainly say you are so, that would be untrue by your point of view (as I'm sure you think your aiding those who find political parties fun).

All in good fun? Not really, but don't think it will damage your image in my own eyes. You've actually gone up acouple of points.

You were talking about Political Party "Infighting," my mindset is centered around the individual... so any two people discussing political parties I consider as infighting. So we were thinking of the same word in two differant ways.

Point taken.

Not really in good fun, I'm serious about this. Do I blame you, or hold it against you? Not at all, your just simply misinformed (:lol:). Usually, the only time I get overly mad.. is when someone acts self-centered and only wishes to aid themselves. While, I could certainly say you are so, that would be untrue by your point of view (as I'm sure you think your aiding those who find political parties fun).

All in good fun? Not really, but don't think it will damage your image in my own eyes. You've actually gone up acouple of points.

I recpect your opinion. And you are right, by my point of view i'm not helping myself, but those who like polictal parties, and those who are new players. When i joined, i was completely bewildered, and if not for the help and support i got from the early Destiny party, the IIP, and Aphawolf, i probably would have dropped out! But now i sound like a recovering druggie.

And from your point of veiw you are right, because you see politcial parties as unstable fun sucking enties of evil( ya no, paraphrasing). But you must llok at the good before the evil. How many new players have the parties helped gain confidence. IamSid was helpped by the idiots, Bengeance by the CUlturalists and Hawk-doves. All these people were helped to excedl by PARTIES. I no you will say its the same with CG, but its not, and i hope that is understood before we trudge on!

I recpect your opinion. And you are right, by my point of view i'm not helping myself, but those who like polictal parties, and those who are new players. When i joined, i was completely bewildered, and if not for the help and support i got from the early Destiny party, the IIP, and Aphawolf, i probably would have dropped out! But now i sound like a recovering druggie.

And from your point of veiw you are right, because you see politcial parties as unstable fun sucking enties of evil( ya no, paraphrasing). But you must llok at the good before the evil. How many new players have the parties helped gain confidence. IamSid was helpped by the idiots, Bengeance by the CUlturalists and Hawk-doves. All these people were helped to excedl by PARTIES. I no you will say its the same with CG, but its not, and i hope that is understood before we trudge on!

I posted my response inside of the Free Spirits (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=156847) thread. Time to stop threadjacking this thread.

I beleve that we should have a seperate forum for political parties and citizens groups so that serious demogamers dont have to weed through the threads to find a demogame related topic. Right now, it just looks disorganized. Now where has that legendary Demogamer gone? (Referance to Disorganized)

I beleve that we should have a seperate forum for political parties and citizens groups so that serious demogamers dont have to weed through the threads to find a demogame related topic. Right now, it just looks disorganized. Now where has that legendary Demogamer gone? (Referance to Disorganized)

Disorganizer, not Disorganized ;).

Strangely enough, his leaving was why most of the current demogames are a huge mess.

Disorganizer, not Disorganized ;).
All these long class days are realy taking a toll on my mind and losing it :crazyeye:


Strangely enough, his leaving was why most of the current demogames are a huge mess.
Quite Ironic with a name of Disorganized can keep things in order. I guess you cant judge a poster by his/her name ;).