Recap: State of the Nation at the end of 2050 BC

And while the king was looking down, the jester stole his thorny crown...

Palace revolt! After Khan wcil stepped down from his empirorship and named Noldodan as the new Khan, the whole nation has been busy looking out for their designated leader. Noldodan however, is suddenly missing and unable to be located. While diligently keeping the daily business of the nation running, advisors to the Khan starts to search for alternative successors according to the holy List of Divine Personalities passed down from the ancient time.

However, it seems the mighty Mystical Spirits we worship have decided to put the great Mongolian Nation to a test. Among the four names deduced from the holy List of DP, two are missing just like Noldodan, while the other two are out of town conducting royal business and thus unable to return to the Capital in time. Rumors start to spread among the folks in Karakorum, the political state of the nation seems increasing unstable.

In this time of crisis, one particular advisor to the Khan, Blkbird, decides to take over the responsibility himself. As he looks into the Extened List of DP, he has concluded that he is indeed eligible for the position of Khan in case prior candidates are incapacitated. In a swift and non-violent revolt, Blkbird assumes and consolidated power at the palace. Hail to the Khan, baby!

Khan Blkbird, having been a longtime active advisor, is well familiar with various aspects of the leadership business (particularly the duzens of beautiful concubines in the palace - mhh, concubines...). Motivated by his new luxurious life but unforgotten his higher duty now as the Commander in Chief, he immediately administers a brief report on the state of the Mongolian Nation.

Domestic

Karakorum is currently building Worker and expected to finish in 2 Turns, a half-finished (17/40) Barracks is supposed to follow. Population is 6, Happiness 7 > Unhappiness 6, Health 9 > Unhealthiness 6, Culture 76/250 +2/Turn.

Beshbalik is currently building Work Boat and expected to finish in 8 Turns. Population 1, Growth expected in 5 Turns, Culture 0 +0/Turn.

The only Worker unit Slave Gang 1 is building a road between the two cities. Untill then Beshbalik is not connected to the Trade Network

Finance

Gold reserve is 179, expense -1/Turn for the City Maintenance of Beshbalik. The Commerce of 11/Turn is complete spent for Research.

Civics

Besides Slavery, to which we've already converted, no non-primitive civic is available at this time.

Foreign

We've met Hatshepsut of Egypt in the NW, and Saladin of Arabia in the SW of us. Both are cautious towards us, as well as towards each other.

Military

Karakorum is guarded by Karakorum Archer and Karakurom Warrior (Combat I), Beshbalik is guarded by Beshbalik Archer. No other combat unit of ours exist.

Scout 1 is at the N end of our continent, Scout 2 at the N end of Karakorum's border. Scout 3 is in close range SW of Scout 1, right outside of the NE border of Egypt, currently healing from an injury.

An egyptian Warrior is apparenty scouting around and currently right between our two cities. Even though it is close to our Slave Gang 1, an attack is being evaluated as very unlikely at this time.

Science

We're researching at full power (100%). Mansonry has just been initiated and would finish in 4 Turns, other alternatives are Sailing (6), Writing (7), Horseback Riding (16), Meditation (5), Polytheism (6), Metal Casting (28) and Iron Working (13).

Religion

Buddism has been founded in 3800 BC and having a current Influence of 13%, followed by Hinduism, 3550 BC, 13% and Judaism, 2650 BC, 10%. None of them has spread to either one of our cities, and the origin of their foundings are all unkown.

Egypt has adopted Hinduism, Arabia has no state religion yet.

Statistics

We are top of the World with regards to Population, Manufactured Crop Yield (Food), Goods (Production) and Imports/Exports (which is 0, so no other nation has Imports/Exports either yet).

We are bottom of the World with regards to GNP (Gold) and Approval Rate (Happiness), and second last with regards to Land Area (size of territory), Soldiers (number of military units) and Life Expectancy (Health).

Maps

The nothern, central and southern region of our nation:

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/5111/earlybird2050n8uc.th.jpg (http://img231.imageshack.us/my.php?image=earlybird2050n8uc.jpg) http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/3874/earlybird2050c1ay.th.jpg (http://img231.imageshack.us/my.php?image=earlybird2050c1ay.jpg) http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/5277/earlybird2050s1mr.th.jpg (http://img231.imageshack.us/my.php?image=earlybird2050s1mr.jpg)

Turnset: The royal historian witnesses and records

2050 BC:
- All non-fortifying units have been moved already.
- Instead of Masonry, Writing is administered as the new Research goal.

2000 BC:
- The Egyptian Warrior moves SE towards the coast; a Babarian Warrior emerges from the Fog of War SE of Karakorum.
- Beshbalik Archer fotifies in the city.
- Scout 1 (in the N) heads SE along the coastline; Scout 2 heads towards Karakorum; Scout 2 continues to heal.
- Slave Gang 1 moves NE and builds Road.

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/936/earlybird20005rm.th.jpg (http://img204.imageshack.us/my.php?image=earlybird20005rm.jpg)

1950 BC:
- Egypt adopts Slavery (who cares).
- The Egyption Warrior moves SW now, away from the coast and towards the border of Karakorum (and yet no need to worry, I think); the Babarian Warrior has disappeared back into the FOW.
- Karakorum finishes Worker, named Slave Gang 2; although the half finished Barracks is automatically resumed, the Khan decides to switch production to Settler, as our primary concern right now is to claim the Horse before Egypt and Arabia eventually snap it away; the Settler will normally be finished in 5 Turns, but we are about to speed it up a bit.
- Scout 1 keeps scouting the coastline; Scout 2 passes Karakorum and head S towards the likely peninsula - or a bridge to another part of the continent, which we are about to find out - preliminarily named the Southern Peninsula; Scout 3 heals for another Turn.
- Slave Gang 2 moves into the Forest W of the Ivory and prepare to chop down the forest there.

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/7137/earlybird19507hb.th.jpg (http://img215.imageshack.us/my.php?image=earlybird19507hb.jpg)

1900 BC:
- The Egyption Warrior turns SE again (what now, pal?); the Babarian Warrior is still out of sight.
- Scout 1 and 2 keep their respective courses; Scout 3 heals for a final Turn.
- Slave Gang 1 moves N onto the Gold Hills; Slave Gang 2 chops down the forest to speed up the Settler (note this particular forest is right outside of Karakorum's City Working Range so it can't be worked on anyway but still provides the maximum amount of 20 Hammer when chopped).

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/5351/earlybird19003jx.th.jpg (http://img215.imageshack.us/my.php?image=earlybird19003jx.jpg)

1850 BC:
- The Egyptian Warrior moves further SE.
- Scout 1 pays a visit to Beshbalik on his way; Scout 2 moves SE; Scout 3, now fully heald, heads S along the Egyptian border.
- Slave Gang 1 build Road on the Gold Hills, hopefully it will be within our border soon so we can build a Mine on it; Slave Gang 2 finishes chopping the forest and delivers 20 Hammer to Karakorum, allowing the Settler being built there to finish right next Turn, saving 2 Turns of time.
- Karakorum Archer moves NWW onto the Ivory Camp, advancing in front of the Settler who is soon to follow.

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/5633/earlybird18507uj.th.jpg (http://img220.imageshack.us/my.php?image=earlybird18507uj.jpg)

1800 BC:
- The Egyption Warrior continues to move SE.
- Karakorum finishes Settler, named Horse Expansionist after the dear hope of our nation lasting on his shoulder, and resumes on building Barracks for real this time; the Barracks is due to finishing in 2 Turns, and the city's Population is expected to grow 1 Turn after that.
- Bashbalik has just grown, now with a Population of 2.
- Scout 1, 2 and 3 all keeping their respective courses.
- Slave Gang 2 moves N onto the Horse Plains.
- Karakorum Archer moves NW onto the same spot.
- Horse Expansionist follows them there as well.

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/8563/earlybird18008yt.th.jpg (http://img220.imageshack.us/my.php?image=earlybird18008yt.jpg)

1750 BC:
- Writing has been researched; Sailing is chosen as the next objective.
- The Egyption Warrior moves S (which is the only logical move), still no sight of the Babarian Warrior.
- Scout 1 continues as hitherto; Scout 2 arrives at the N end of the Southern Peninsula, right W of the Gold Hills; Scout 3 continues as well.
- Slave Gang 1 moves NE onto the coastal Desert and build Road; Slave Gang 2 build Road right on the Horse Plains.
- Karakorum Archer moves NW into the forest, where the new city is to be located.
- Horse Expansionist follows suit.

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/9210/earlybird17501mh.th.jpg (http://img220.imageshack.us/my.php?image=earlybird17501mh.jpg)

Turnset: The royal historian witnesses and records (continued)

1700 BC:
- The Egyption Warrior moves further S; another Babarian Warrior appears right S of our Scout 2.
- Karakorum finishes Barracks and starts to build a new Archer.
- Scout 1 moves NW, attempting to escape the Babarian Warrior; Scout 2 and 3 proceed with their routes.
- Horse Expanionist settles down and builds our nation's third city, named Turfan; at the same time is it revealed that an Arabian Settler, accompanied by an Archer, is indeed heading towards here too and has already advanced to the S border of the new city - we have just been one step ahead of them, we are truly blessed by the Mystic Spirits we worship!
- Turfan starts to build a library right away; it would normally take a long time, but we will be providing some help here, too; Growth of the new city is expected in 5 Turns.
- Karakorum Archer is now officially renamed as Turfan Archer and fortifies in the city.

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/4365/earlybird1700n2xg.th.jpg (http://img220.imageshack.us/my.php?image=earlybird1700n2xg.jpg) http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/1474/earlybird1700s0kt.th.jpg (http://img236.imageshack.us/my.php?image=earlybird1700s0kt.jpg)

1650 BC:
- The Egyption Warrior moves S yet again; the Arabian Settler and Archer, obviously stunned and crushed by the terrific success of our speedy Horse Expansionist, are heading back W now, probably awaiting gruesome punishments by their angry leader; the newly spotted Babarian Warrior does not seem to be following our Scout 2 and has not shown up again.
- Karakorum finishes Archer, named Karakorum New Archer, and proceeds with a new Worker; the Capital has also just grown, the Population of 7 now maxes out the Happiness.
- Beshbalik finishes Work Boat, named Beshbalik Fish Explorer - the name will vanish soon, but the great Mongolian Nation never forgets a single name of her heroic units, let alone those sacrificing themselves, no matter working or fighting; a Library is being built next.
- Scout 1 continues his expedition; Scout 2 moves SW to the coast, his new plan now being to go to the border of Arabian and head back then; Scout 3 arrives at the three nation border of Mongolia, Egypt and Arabia, where he discovers a Arabian Worker building a Farm, and yet another Arabian Archer arriving from the S, probably sent as an additional guard for their Horse City, which is but a soap bubble now - in your face, Aladin!
- Slave Gang 1 moves NW and builds the final piece of Road to connect Beshbalik to the Capital; Slave Gang 2, having cleverly connected Turfan to the Capital in advance of the founding of the city already, builds a Pasture so we can utilize the bravely fought Horse as soon as possible.
- Beshbalik Fish Explorer moves to the Fish and creates Fishing Boats there; Growth is now due in 2 Turns in Beshbalik.
- Karakorum New Archer fortifies in the Capital; Karakorum Warrior wakes up and heads S to give some Babarians a lesson.

http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/1470/earlybird1650n4ok.th.jpg (http://img236.imageshack.us/my.php?image=earlybird1650n4ok.jpg) http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/3429/earlybird1650s0vf.th.jpg (http://img236.imageshack.us/my.php?image=earlybird1650s0vf.jpg)

1600 BC:
- The Egyption Warrior moves further down S; the Arabian Settler and Archer move NW and close in to our Scout 3; the other lone Arabian Archer moves NW too; a Babarian Warrior appears where the lone Arabian Archer has been - is the Arabian Archer so coward that he runs from a Babarian Warrior?
- Saladin of Arabia pleads for an audience with the Khan - which we generously grant - and proposes a mutal Open Borders agreement; we cautiously decline the offer, at least for now.
- Scout 1 moves S into the large Jungle region; Scout 2 moves NW, where he meets yet another Babarian Warrior - there are four of them running around now, in the SE, S, SW and W of our Capital; Scout 1, thankfully not having spent all his mobility, moves back SE; Scout 3 moves W and discovers a new border line of Egypt - appearantly a new city has been built extending their S border.
- Karakorum Warrior goes S as planned.

http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/1484/earlybird1600n7am.th.jpg (http://img236.imageshack.us/my.php?image=earlybird1600n7am.jpg) http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/3312/earlybird1600s4ic.th.jpg (http://img236.imageshack.us/my.php?image=earlybird1600s4ic.jpg)

1550 BC:
- The Egyption Warrior has now disappeared into the FOW SE of Karakorum; Egypt seem to have built yet another city since their border has extended just now, NW of Turfan - maybe their have been eyeballing the Horse, too, but only come to the party as the last guest; the Arabian Settler and both Archers all move NW, there does seems to be no good destination though; the Babarian Warrior encounted by our Scout 2 is on his pursuit.
- Beshbalik grows again, its Population is now 3.
- Scout 1 moves further along the coast line; Scout 2 escapes NEE and hopes not to run into the other Babarian Warrior; Scout 3 continues W, discovering the new S border of Egypt.
- Slave Gang 1 has finally connected Beshbalik to the Capital and moves SSW into the Forest, preparing to chop it down - the Wheat Farm can wait since the major concern for Beshbalik is not the Food - nor the health, for that matter, but its Library construction progressing very slowly due to its extremely low Production; Slave Gang 2 finishes the Horse Pasture, at last!
- Karakorum Warrior moves into the large Jungle Region and is now serious ready to beat up some Babarians.

http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/7101/earlybird1550n0qm.th.jpg (http://img236.imageshack.us/my.php?image=earlybird1550n0qm.jpg) http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/3088/earlybird1550s3pe.th.jpg (http://img203.imageshack.us/my.php?image=earlybird1550s3pe.jpg)

Inventory: State of the nation at the end of 1550 BC

Domestic

Karakorum will finish Worker (to be named Slave Gang 3 following the current convention) next turn. Growth is currently undesireable as the Happiness is already maxed out, so we'll probably see some "slavery action" next.

Beshbalik will be working on constructing Library for a while, although the Forest chop coming next and the Mine to be build after that will shorten the duration to an acceptable level. Growth is not a problem in this city.

Turfan will likely finish its Library sooner than Beshbalik as the Horse Pasutre provides many Hammers, and there are more Forests to chop, too, for instance the two Hills and the one riverside Grassland. The Oasis is an excellant Food source.

All three cities are connected now. A shortcut between Beshbalik and Turfan isn't necessary as of now, but might be beneficial later.

Finance

Gold reserve has come down to 158, expense -4/Turn for the City Maintenance of Beshbalik and Turfan (each -2). The commerce has almost doubled from 11/Turn 10 Turns ago to now 21/Turn, and is still completely spent for Research.

Civics

No progress here. The only non-primitive civic available is still Slavery, which we have switched to a long time ago.

Foreign

No significant events to report here, either. The only three known nations are still cautious towards each other.

Although we can now sign Open Border agreements after having researched Writing, we have turned down a such proposal by Arabia. On the other hand, we should consider signing such an agreement with Egypt, so our Scout 3 can explor the NW part of the continent.

Having at least three cities, Egypt seems to be a very formidable opponent, and it seems we should consider a more cooperative approach toward it. Arabia, however, has just lost the Horse City race to us, which is a major setback, and might be the ideal target of our military expansion.

Military

Each of our three city is being guarded by an Archer, the Capital now has Barracks and a mildly experienced guarding Archer built there.

Scout 1 is following a Egyptian Warrior, even though he is now out of sight. Still, Scout 1 is unlikely to run into trouble on his way further down SE.

Scout 2 is being pursuited by a Babarian Warrior and possibly being intercepted by another Babarian Warrior. Even if he should heroically go KIA, he must complete his mission of cartographing the Southern Peninsula.

Scout 3 may run into dead end soon and could use some help of our diplomats, if they are willing to finalize a Open Borders agreement with Egypt.

Karakorum Warrior is going to meet one or more Babarian Counterparts. As long as we carefully choose the spots for he to defend himself, danger is fairly low.

Science

Writing has be researched, Sailing is finishing right next Turn. What should follow is subject to further discussion (probably a quite active one).

Religion

Absolutely no news in this regard. The three early religions are all available already, the others won't be founded for quite some time.

Because of Turfan close distance to Egypt, if might get "infected" by some religion next.

Statistics

We're still top of the World regarding Population, Food, Import/Export (though still 0), we've dropped from top to second regarding Production, but moved from bottom to top regarding Commerce, wow! And Production will be top again in 2 Turns when Turfan gets a second Citizen to work on the Horse Pasture.

Our military size is still second last, but territory size has moved from second last to middle. Happiness has moved from last to middle, and Health from second last to top!

We are no longer the end of line in any statistical aspect now, which is very comforting. Also, while Karakorum is only the third Top City of the World, it is the largest by population.

Saves and Maps

Follow this link and click the "Free" button there to download:

http://rapidshare.de/files/9256308/Early_Bird_-2050_-1550_Blkbird.zip.html

And now, the end is near, so I face the final curtain...

As reports of the Royal Science Advisory indicating an immediate discovery of a brand new method of travel called "Sailing" arrives at his office, Khan Blkbird is already eagerly preparing for a long journey. Even all those beautiful concubines (mhh, concubines...) can no longer bind his flesh and mind, he only wants to sail away, discovering new worlds, meeting new civilizations...

As it happens, the Royal Messenger Service has brought to the palace news about one of the original candiates on the holy List of Divine Personalities, Stilgar08. He has concluded his business and will be arriving back at the Capital any time soon - the exact date of course unable to be specified as we have not yet mastered the secret of Calendar.

Anyway, having complete confidence in Stilgar08, Khan Blkbird puts a peaceful end to his peaceful palace revolt and steps down from the crown, handing over the holy title of Early Bird to Stilgar08, the new Khan of our great Mongolian Nation.

Bow down to Khan Stilgar08! May he and his followers ride on a thousand (newly breeded) horses and conquer the world!

do we really need to build barracks? it's a little early to be worrying of such things.

and that arabian city is a little concerning!

would our science rate be the same if we knocked it down to 90%?

Outlook: A close look at our close future

(see below)

Suggested new city points.

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/4766/earlybird1550bc4cm.th.jpg (http://img208.imageshack.us/my.php?image=earlybird1550bc4cm.jpg)

City (1) is suggested because it is very strategically located and will prevent the other civilizations from colonizing the southern peninsula. Ie. A strategic location, if not an optimal one.

The green (1) is incase there's an Arab city built that's too close to our borders. This is also optimal as it'll give us access to copper, rice and gold (for trade). Both the spots are coastal, for optimal trade.

City (2) is suggested as it'll give us access to gems (happiness), rice (trade) and gold (trade). This also coastal.

*edits coming soon*

Outlook part 1: Territorial development and conflict

Map legend

In the following maps, I use the blue color to mark current objects that belongs to us, like the border of our city's working areas (inner - right after founding - and outer - after growth), or the position of our units. I use the red color to mark future objects that might be of interest to us, like possible settling location. I use yellow and green to mark objects that belong to Egypt and Arabia, respectively.

Southern region

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4108/earlybird1550outlooks9aq.th.jpg (http://img207.imageshack.us/my.php?image=earlybird1550outlooks9aq.jpg)

As discussed by many of us before and mentioned by wcil right above, we should grab the Copper at the N end of the Southern Peninsula rather sooner than later. The narrow victory of securing the Horse should have taught us that we're not the only nation trying to expand, and that so far we've been too self-centric about our own plans, neglecting possible moves of our opponents.

I still believe spot A (as marked in the map) is the best settling point. The alternative suggested by wcil, A1, is not bad, either. If we do settle at A1 instead of A, we should build another city later at A2.

Scout 2 (marked S2 in the map), being hunted by a Babarian Warrior, should proceed - with caution, because there may be another Babarian Warrior somewhere ahead - S onto the Southern Peninsula to give us a better cartography.

A future city at spot B is pretty much uncontroversal. It's coastal - good for food (with Lighthouse) and commerce (with Harbor), it's on Hills - easy to defend, it has a lot of great resources.

S1 should head SW, to the East End of the continent to get a better view of the coastal area there.

Northen region

http://img374.imageshack.us/img374/4340/earlybird1550outlookn3yz.th.jpg (http://img374.imageshack.us/my.php?image=earlybird1550outlookn3yz.jpg)

In addition to the three cities we have now, I suggest building a new one at spot C to claim the Marble (and the Gold). A Library would be needed to access the outer city working area, which we may help constructing by chopping one or two forests and building some mines.

Another city at spot D is also worth considering even though the area is mainly Tundra/Ice, because of the strategic importance of blocking off Egypt. Besides, there is a river flow through that area and compensates the Tundra disadvantage a bit, plus Silver hasn't been founded anywhere else and therefore important to secure.

Western region

http://img428.imageshack.us/img428/5157/earlybird1550outlookw8tx.th.jpg (http://img428.imageshack.us/my.php?image=earlybird1550outlookw8tx.jpg)

The situation in the W region is pretty complicated and promises a lot of difficult problems for us to solve. It is certain that Egypt has just built a new city at spot Y, in addtion to an older city (which has already grown) at spot X. They seem to be doing very well so far.

More interestingly, an Arabian Settler, accompanied by an Archer and having failed to race against us for the Horse, is currently at spot Z. Another Arabian Archer has followed them and is currently on the SE adjacent spot of Z. I'm afraid there is fair probability that the Arabian Settler will build a city right next Turn. That would be a major pain in the a** for both us and Egypt, we must come up with a plan to deal with it. In case they don't settle at Z, it's likely they will choose Z1 instead, which, just like Z, would cause serious tension between Egypt and Arabia.

Our Scout 3 (marked as S3 in blue) is heading W to cartography the NW region of our continent. Giving the estimated border line of city X, it should be able to circle around X and make to the coast. However, the Peaks NW of X would make a futher exploration impossible.

Therefore, I recommend we exchange Open Borders agreement with Egypt immediately and let Scout 3 proceed cross the Egyptian territory follwing the waypoints S3.1 through S3.4.

Bow down to Khan Stilgar08! May he and his followers ride on a thousand (newly breeded) horses and conquer the world!

Thanks, I will take over and find the time for in-depth looks into the last turns on Monday! Please discuss the next steps! YOU can shape the future of the mighty mongolian Empire!

Outlook part 2: Research, city productions and worker activities

Research

The technology we research next partially depends on the location of our next city. The only coastal city we currently have is Beshbalik, whose production power is too low for the Great Lighthouse. Even the Copper City to be built on the Southern Peninsula would, as the currently proposed settling points suggest, not be a production powerhouse until it's grown. Therefore, Masonry doesn't seem to be something we need right now.

More interesting are Iron Working and Metal Casting. The former because it would reveal Iron, the latter because it enables Forge - practically needed everywhere, and the Colossus - once we've got the Copper.

Alphabet is also worth considering since we can then trade techs with other nations. Mathematic would be necessary if we want to get Calendar and thus enable Plantation sooner.

Horseback riding would only make sense now if we want to go to war very soon, which I do not recommend. The religious civics are not my specialties so I don't want to comment on them - in my own game I always leave them out and trade them later.

City productions

After finishing the current worker, Karakorum should get a Settler out again. Another Worker now wouldn't make sense, a combat unit can also wait a bit (maybe a Chariot later), and a Library is of no priority since the Culture of Karakorum is fine right now.

Beshbalik and Turfan will be building Library for a while. In case of Beshbalik, we should consider putting Slavery to some use.

Worker actions

Slave Gang 1 is ready to chop down the Forest he's in and give Beshbalik 20 Hammers for the Library construction. After that a Mine on the Hills S of the Wheat would be great. Or we could build the Mine first, which would have made more sense - sorry I miscalculated when playing my last Turn.

Slave Gang 2 should go W onto the Hills, chop down the Forest there, then either build a Mine or go SW and chop down the Forest on riverside Grassland (where a Farm should be build later). Anyway Turfan will probably finish its Library earlier than Beshbalik.

Slave Gang 3, expected next Turn, could either start building a road to our future Copper City, or go chopping the two Forests S of Ivory - one is lakeside Grassland, suitable for a Farm, the other Hills, good for a Mine.

Outlook part 3: Religion, civics, diplomacy and the military

Religion

As I've stated before, my personal playing style is to let go Religion first and come back to race for Christianity and/or Islam later, so I'm not very familiar with Religion-oriented strategies. Having said that, I don't see any reason to adopt a State Religion at this time.

We should be prepared, though, for the case that Turfan gets Religion spreaded from Egypt. It is unlikely to happen too soon, but it is not impossible during the next 10 Turns.

Civics

As long as we're not heading for some religous tech, there won't be any additional civis available any time soon.

Diplomacy

I recommend a close and friendly relationship with Egypt for now, as it has been developing very well without causing us trouble. Messing with it at this time would be both causeless and dangerous. An Open Borders agreement with Egypt would benefit us insofar as our Scout 3 can then explore the NW region of the continent which is yet unknown to us.

Arabia, on the other hand, has been causing us some trouble, and is likely to cause more. Also it is not doing so well as us or Egypt. So this is our potential target of attack, though I wouldn't recommend declaring War within the next 10 Turns either.

Another thing we should anticipate is a quickly worsening relationship between Egypt and Arabia. I can't think of any place for the currently wandering Arabian Settler to build a new city that would *not* cut into the territory of Egypt. We should observe the situation closely and try to profit from it.

Military

War needs good preparation. One aspect is to have combat units with Experience. For this reason I've sent out Karakorum Warrior to kick some Babarian a** and collect some Experience Points. As long as we're careful and choose good spots to defend ourselves, the risk of getting KIA is very low.

And we definitely need better attack units to start a War. An Axeman is worth considering should Karakorum be idling some time next (which, on the other hand, is rather unlikely). When Horseback Riding is researched, building our special unit Keshik would be almost an obligation.

lol - and people thought *I* was treating the game too much like chess :)

lol - and people thought *I* was treating the game too much like chess :)

Not "people", I was that. So what aspect of my play do you find chess-like?

Ok, Blkbird: I wanted to pick up your zip-file but it's 13MB! Could you please send me just the save-file?? I'm @work here and don't want to download that much... I printed out your outlook and will comment, ask questions and state opinions tomorrow and pick up the save if it's there...
-

I hope discussion will arise today, otherwise I'm planning on playing either tomorrow or on Wednesday...

You can be sure I'll submit my save before christmas (presumably on Thursday!)! Who will be my successor?? I'll p.m. him once I delvered the save...

Stilgar

P.S.: Nice read, Blkbird and a few pretty good suggestions... I'll check them out tonight and when I have the save (Of course I won't play but will just look!)...

Ok, Blkbird: I wanted to pick up your zip-file but it's 13MB! Could you please send me just the save-file?? I'm @work here and don't want to download that much... I printed out your outlook and will comment, ask questions and state opinions tomorrow and pick up the save if it's there...

Are you sure you can't dl a file as small as 13 MB? If you insist, I can send you just the last savegame once you give me an emailadress.

You can be sure I'll submit my save before christmas (presumably on Thursday!)! Who will be my successor?? I'll p.m. him once I delvered the save...

That appears to be SamE.

BlkBird: Check your p.m.'s... It's not that I can't it's just that it makes it easier for me...

Outlook part 1: Territorial development and conflict

Southern region

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4108/earlybird1550outlooks9aq.th.jpg (http://img207.imageshack.us/my.php?image=earlybird1550outlooks9aq.jpg)

As discussed by many of us before and mentioned by wcil right above, we should grab the Copper at the N end of the Southern Peninsula rather sooner than later. The narrow victory of securing the Horse should have taught us that we're not the only nation trying to expand, and that so far we've been too self-centric about our own plans, neglecting possible moves of our opponents.

I still believe spot A (as marked in the map) is the best settling point. The alternative suggested by wcil, A1, is not bad, either. If we do settle at A1 instead of A, we should build another city later at A2.

Scout 2 (marked S2 in the map), being hunted by a Babarian Warrior, should proceed - with caution, because there may be another Babarian Warrior somewhere ahead - S onto the Southern Peninsula to give us a better cartography.

A future city at spot B is pretty much uncontroversal. It's coastal - good for food (with Lighthouse) and commerce (with Harbor), it's on Hills - easy to defend, it has a lot of great resources.

S1 should head SW, to the East End of the continent to get a better view of the coastal area there.

Northen region

http://img374.imageshack.us/img374/4340/earlybird1550outlookn3yz.th.jpg (http://img374.imageshack.us/my.php?image=earlybird1550outlookn3yz.jpg)

In addition to the three cities we have now, I suggest building a new one at spot C to claim the Marble (and the Gold). A Library would be needed to access the outer city working area, which we may help constructing by chopping one or two forests and building some mines.

I left out spot D because it's not top priority for me, but which of the above mentioned is top-priority in your opinion?? I would go for c (marble) and after that for a (copper). What do you (ALL) think?


Therefore (edit by Stilgar08: for scouting!), I recommend we exchange Open Borders agreement with Egypt immediately and let Scout 3 proceed cross the Egyptian territory follwing the waypoints S3.1 through S3.4.

Agreed. I will have to look at the save before saying anything particular about that but I tend to do open-borders with everyone whenever it wouldn't mean a major drawback... In the current GOTM I declined open border since I only had one neighbour and wanted to keep him from growing in my backyard, but... Suggestions here??

No open borders till we stop our soon to be vanquished foes from sneaking into the southern peninsula. (Ie. City #1)

Next, no open borders while we found City #2.

No open borders till we go fighting :p

Outlook part 2: Research, city productions and worker activities

Research

The technology we research next partially depends on the location of our next city. The only coastal city we currently have is Beshbalik, whose production power is too low for the Great Lighthouse. Even the Copper City to be built on the Southern Peninsula would, as the currently proposed settling points suggest, not be a production powerhouse until it's grown. Therefore, Masonry doesn't seem to be something we need right now.

More interesting are Iron Working and Metal Casting. The former because it would reveal Iron, the latter because it enables Forge - practically needed everywhere, and the Colossus - once we've got the Copper.

Alphabet is also worth considering since we can then trade techs with other nations. Mathematic would be necessary if we want to get Calendar and thus enable Plantation sooner.

I would suggest going for alpha here and afterwards heavy tech-trading. if possible... What do you think... Generally I think tech trading is something which has to be considered by the assembly (citizen's, whatever) therefore IF we go there: Should I set up a poll with the different possibilities or just decide???
How about researching something else??

City productions

After finishing the current worker, Karakorum should get a Settler out again. Another Worker now wouldn't make sense, a combat unit can also wait a bit (maybe a Chariot later), and a Library is of no priority since the Culture of Karakorum is fine right now.

Beshbalik and Turfan will be building Library for a while. In case of Beshbalik, we should consider putting Slavery to some use.

Will say something about that once I saw the save... Other opinions here?


Slave Gang 1 is ready to chop down the Forest he's in and give Beshbalik 20 Hammers for the Library construction. After that a Mine on the Hills S of the Wheat would be great. Or we could build the Mine first, which would have made more sense - sorry I miscalculated when playing my last Turn.

Slave Gang 2 should go W onto the Hills, chop down the Forest there, then either build a Mine or go SW and chop down the Forest on riverside Grassland (where a Farm should be build later). Anyway Turfan will probably finish its Library earlier than Beshbalik.

Slave Gang 3, expected next Turn, could either start building a road to our future Copper City, or go chopping the two Forests S of Ivory - one is lakeside Grassland, suitable for a Farm, the other Hills, good for a Mine.

I tend to be a bit more cautious when it comes to chopping. I agree on most suggestions here, though but would postpone the river-grassland-chop for gang3 and maybe gang2... Your 2 cents?

No open borders till we stop our soon to be vanquished foes from sneaking into the southern peninsula. (Ie. City #1)

agreed, but what about Egypt??? How about improving relations?

Next, no open borders while we found City #2.

No open borders till we go fighting :p

Disagreed... Why shouldn't we, once we claimed the southern peninsula for us?

Religion

As I've stated before, my personal playing style is to let go Religion first and come back to race for Christianity and/or Islam later, so I'm not very familiar with Religion-oriented strategies. Having said that, I don't see any reason to adopt a State Religion at this time.

We could go for CoL and grab Confucianism after researching Alphabet... Personally I like to go there since it just fits into my regular techs...


Diplomacy

I recommend a close and friendly relationship with Egypt for now, as it has been developing very well without causing us trouble. Messing with it at this time would be both causeless and dangerous. An Open Borders agreement with Egypt would benefit us insofar as our Scout 3 can then explore the NW region of the continent which is yet unknown to us.

Arabia, on the other hand, has been causing us some trouble, and is likely to cause more. Also it is not doing so well as us or Egypt. So this is our potential target of attack, though I wouldn't recommend declaring War within the next 10 Turns either.

Agreed. Anyone disagree?

No open borders till we stop our soon to be vanquished foes from sneaking into the southern peninsula. (Ie. City #1)

This doesn't make sense to me. As we can see on the Outlook map I created for the Southern Region, neither Egypt nor Arabia needs an Open Borders agreement with us to get to the Southern Peninsula and compete with us for the Copper City. Same for the Silver City in the North: Egypt can get there any time, Arabia would need to either go through us or Egypt, but we aren't trading with Arabia any way.

As for the Gems City and the Marble City, none of our rivals would be settling that deep into our territory anyway. And if they do, we would be able to capture the city easily as they cannot provide the logistic to defend it.

In other words, we can't cut off Egypt, but Egypt is cutting off us (or at least our Scout 3), so trading Open Borders would only benefit us without any significant lost.

I left out spot D because it's not top priority for me, but which of the above mentioned is top-priority in your opinion?? I would go for c (marble) and after that for a (copper). What do you (ALL) think?

Marble can wait. What for do you need it right now? Copper is much important, as an Warrior is nothing compared to an Axeman (requires Copper or Iron), plus the Colossus is a Wonder more realistic for us to build than any Marble-accelerated Wonder.

I name the proposed settling points A to D not only because they go from S to N counter-clockweise, but also because I'd settle in that order.

I would suggest going for alpha here and afterwards heavy tech-trading. if possible... What do you think... Generally I think tech trading is something which has to be considered by the assembly (citizen's, whatever) therefore IF we go there: Should I set up a poll with the different possibilities or just decide???

Before we rush to that, maybe you could tell us which techs exactly you're expected to trade in from our neighbors? Given the character of their leaders and their estimated progress, which Techs do you think they'll have that we'd able to trade in? Going blindly for Alphabet so as to trade Techs without any analysis of what to anticipate would be somehow irresponsible, in my opinion.

We could go for CoL and grab Confucianism after researching Alphabet... Personally I like to go there since it just fits into my regular techs...

Pardon me? Confucianism is but *lightyears* away yet. Aside from the fact that Alphabet is nowhere on the path to Philosophy, we'll be needing either (Meditation + Priesthood + Code of Laws + Philosophy) or (Mathematics + Currency + Code of Laws + Philosophy) to found Confucianism. It won't be happening within the next 30 Turns, probably not even within the next 40 Turns. You're planing a bit too far ahead, I think.

Heh, we might want to queue for construction. Early Catapults would make hell of a difference once we decide to siege the arabs.

Pardon me? Confucianism is but *lightyears* away yet. Aside from the fact that Alphabet is nowhere on the path to Philosophy, we'll be needing either (Meditation + Priesthood + Code of Laws + Philosophy) or (Mathematics + Currency + Code of Laws + Philosophy) to found Confucianism. It won't be happening within the next 30 Turns, probably not even within the next 40 Turns. You're planing a bit too far ahead, I think.


I know! You asked about religion that would be the way to go for me... I didn't mean right now but mid-term...

Heh, we might want to queue for construction. Early Catapults would make hell of a difference once we decide to siege the arabs.
I'm more of a builder-type early on and would go for city-structures as priority - What do the others think?

Before we rush to that, maybe you could tell us which techs exactly you're expected to trade in from our neighbors? Given the character of their leaders and their estimated progress, which Techs do you think they'll have that we'd able to trade in? Going blindly for Alphabet so as to trade Techs without any analysis of what to anticipate would be somehow irresponsible, in my opinion.

Well, not necesserily. It's more of an "let's see what we can get" approach. I believe alphabet will turn out to be useful in any case and the sooner we have the ability to trade techs the better, IMHO.

Of course I wouldn't trade everything which is in the way. It has to be reasonable, but I couldn't figure which tech-way our neighbours chose. Let's check I'd say... There's no chance we can get priesthood first without tech trading, right? Maybe it would be a good idea? Just asking questions in order to verify public opinion. I didn't say that's good, we'll have to see how it turns out...

Blkbird was so kind to send me the save (Thank you!) and I took a thorough look at the situation!

After checking the save I have to say:

City placement

Outlook part 1: Territorial development and conflict

Southern region

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4108/earlybird1550outlooks9aq.th.jpg (http://img207.imageshack.us/my.php?image=earlybird1550outlooks9aq.jpg)

As discussed by many of us before and mentioned by wcil right above, we should grab the Copper at the N end of the Southern Peninsula rather sooner than later. The narrow victory of securing the Horse should have taught us that we're not the only nation trying to expand, and that so far we've been too self-centric about our own plans, neglecting possible moves of our opponents.

I still believe spot A (as marked in the map) is the best settling point. The alternative suggested by wcil, A1, is not bad, either. If we do settle at A1 instead of A, we should build another city later at A2.

I agree that spot A makes perfect sense for the next city to get established and I will produce a settler asap. I will take the risk (if there aren't heavy objections here, of course?!?) to not produce an escort but to postpone that for later (until we are done with a library in Beshbalik respectively until Beshbalik grows +1 citizen or the new city builds it itself...)

The settler will have poor protection by scouts respectively our warrior (don't know right now where he exactly is (I'm @work and cannot check right now))but I strongly feel we should close this bottleneck with a city asap! (Without open borders Saladin hereby would need to go to the peninsula with triremes to get ther :D ).

If the spot gets taken by one of our opponents, I'd settle near the marble (spot c) I feel it's a stronger place for a city strategy-wise to begin with than B (although B is a very good spot)...

We have to be careful here since I think we'll have to slow down expansion from city 4 until we built up some infrastructure (I'm concerned about our finances, Ladies and Gentlemen!)

infrastructure and production

Before claiming the copper by building culture in the new city I'd built an archer in the new city (if Beshbalik couldn't do the job earlier) (I know it's not perfect but better than using Karakorum for that!)

If Beshbalik isn't busy improving our civ's defenses I would go for a worker because we don't have enough for 4 cities (Which we will have when finishing the lib there) and after that (might very well not be my turn any more) I'd set up another workboat there... this would mean no triremes right now... :confused:

As a rule of thump I try to have one worker per city... We have 3 cities right now and 2 workers...

I strongly feel Karakorum could do very good with a library and put up a specialist after finishing worker (in 1) and settler afterwards. We would start with GPP AND would have slowed down growth of the city... Comments??

As for Turfan: Will take a while to get the lib done, afterwards (not my turn I think) worker? and/or barracks (city in the eye of the storm later on)

This means: NO wonders immediately.... Comments?

worker-actions

There's so much to be done: They will be VERY busy! I'd grab the wheat near Beshbalik first and cultivate other resources where possible. Another priority would be a road to city4...

Research

It's still alphabet to me! Masonry would be nice to have as well, but my second priority would be Metal-casting (good points there, BlkBird! :goodjob: )... I'm not setting IW as top-priority right now. I generally tend to research sailing later in the game, any comments on how to use it right now (except as bargain??)...

diplomacy

We definitely need to slow down growth but so does Egypt. I agree that we should try to get on friendly terms with them. I'd offer open borders to Hatshepsut. What do you think?
Saladin will be the bad guy of choice for us...

That's it for now! I'm waiting for replies and will start playing in 24hours after checking this thread!

I agree that spot A makes perfect sense for the next city to get established and I will produce a settler asap. I will take the risk (if there aren't heavy objections here, of course?!?) to not produce an escort but to postpone that for later (until we are done with a library in Beshbalik respectively until Beshbalik grows +1 citizen or the new city builds it itself...)

The settler will have poor protection by scouts respectively our warrior (don't know right now where he exactly is (I'm @work and cannot check right now))but I strongly feel we should close this bottleneck with a city asap! (Without open borders Saladin hereby would need to go to the peninsula with triremes to get ther :D ).

Sending the Settler out without escort seems very unwise. Why don't we proceed like the last time - send Karakorum New Archer with him and immdiately train a replacement to guard Karakorum.

Before claiming the copper by building culture in the new city I'd built an archer in the new city (if Beshbalik couldn't do the job earlier) (I know it's not perfect but better than using Karakorum for that!)

If Beshbalik isn't busy improving our civ's defenses I would go for a worker because we don't have enough for 4 cities (Which we will have when finishing the lib there) and after that (might very well not be my turn any more) I'd set up another workboat there... this would mean no triremes right now... :confused:

As a rule of thump I try to have one worker per city... We have 3 cities right now and 2 workers...

I don't understand. First, Karakorum has no building it needs to build immediately, so it should natually train Settler, Archer (and maybe Worker), in that order.

Second, our thrid Worker will be finished right next turn. If you think the Copper City needs a Worker right away, send this new one with the Settler. Karakorum doesn't have an emergent need of Worker as of now.

@Stilgar08: No offense, but you really should take a look at the savegame first before you make any plans. Please also be specific when you say things like "building infrastructure first" - what kind of infrastructure (buildings?) do you mean?

I strongly feel Karakorum could do very good with a library and put up a specialist after finishing worker (in 1) and settler afterwards. We would start with GPP AND would have slowed down growth of the city... Comments??

Why do you feel Karakorum needs a Library? Because I don't see the need at all. As of Specialist - I personally wouldn't start with that so soon, but it's a matter of style.

We don't *have* to slow down growth - we have Slavery, remember? If the Population maxes out, just Hurry Production.

As for Turfan: Will take a while to get the lib done, afterwards (not my turn I think) worker? and/or barracks (city in the eye of the storm later on)

It won't take *that* long if you help it with chopping. Same for Beshbalik. If you don't like to chop (not now or not ever), please tell the reasons.

worker-actions

There's so much to be done: They will be VERY busy! I'd grab the wheat near Beshbalik first and cultivate other resources where possible. Another priority would be a road to city4...

For Beshbalik I recommend chopping the Forest where the Worker is right now and then Hurry Production via Slavery. That should finish the Library within the next 10 Turns. Getting the Library in Beshbalik and Turfan finished has definitely a higher priority than cultivating that Wheat, I think.

@Stilgar08: No offense, but you really should take a look at the savegame first before you make any plans.

I don't take it as offense. It's constructive! :) I wrote all of this AFTER I had a thorough look at the save AND your screenshots...

No offense here either, but read my post more thoroughly, please. I pointed out, that Karakorum finishes worker in 1, that we'll have 3 workers then, but after settling in spot A) we will be short on them (=4cities and 3 workers) and so forth... So I've read your posts and checked on the savegame...

Sending the Settler out without escort seems very unwise. Why don't we proceed like the last time - send Karakorum New Archer with him and immdiately train a replacement to guard Karakorum.

Easy: It takes turns therefore we loose time! Egypt already is far ahead in culture and I would like to come up with a counter (and start on GPP...).
I thought about sending the capital-archer with the new settler as well, but not to build a replacement in Karakorum immediately... I have to confess, that I sometimes tend to postpone production of military units...

I don't understand. First, Karakorum has no building it needs to build immediately, so it should natually train Settler, Archer (and maybe Worker), in that order.

As you pointed out Karakorum has happiness issues. When we build a library we raise culture and can employ a scientist, hereby raising GPP and lowering growth-rate.

Furthermore I don't think we will be able to build 2-3 more cities without getting serious money-problems, therefore making Karakorum a settler-factory isn't advisable at the moment, IMO.

Second, our third Worker will be finished right next turn. If you think the Copper City needs a Worker right away, send this new one with the Settler. Karakorum doesn't have an emergent need of Worker as of now.

It won't take *that* long if you help it with chopping. Same for Beshbalik. If you don't like to chop (not now or not ever), please tell the reasons.

I disagree. I strongly feel we don't have enough workers to fulfil the tasks! I pointed that out in my previous posts. Just as an example: Wheat near Beshbalik isn't cultivated yet, our copper city has to get improved and we need a better connection between cities (roads), Plus last, but not least chopping (I don't have a problem with that @all - has to be done in reasonable places and you mentioned a few good ones in your outlook)

...and then Hurry Production via Slavery

This is one of the reasons of our misunderstandings: I tend to very rarely use the slavery-rushing. I think keeping citizens if possible is more valuable in most cases. I use slavery only in emergencies (no or not enough protection for a city or ressource and an attack is coming). I even quite often tend to not change to slavery when possible, if it takes a turn of anarchy...

Getting the Library in Beshbalik and Turfan finished has definitely a higher priority than cultivating that Wheat, I think

You know, Civ is so cool, because you can play it in so many different styles! :) I would want to grab the ressource and the bonuses from cultivating that wheat first (raising growth signifcantly in Beshbalik) before chop to help production! I see your point, though, but cultivating the wheat doesn't only give us the ressource but gives extra outcome on that tile, as well...

Stilgar

This is one of the reasons of our misunderstandings: I tend to very rarely use the slavery-rushing. I think keeping citizens if possible is more valuable in most cases. I use slavery only in emergencies (no or not enough protection for a city or ressource and an attack is coming). I even quite often tend to not change to slavery when possible, if it takes a turn of anarchy...

In my personal single games, I don't adopt Slavery at all - because I don't like it. But that's not a good enough reason for a demogame, here in a collective play only the (brutal) facts count. And fact is, we *have* adopted Slavery; fact is also, you *do* ackowledge Karakorum's Population is at limit; fact is further more, you *want* to have a higher production speed in our cities. Now, I really don't see how can simply denie the use of Slavery despite all that.

BlkBird: I'm not denying the use of slavery at all! We can do that (use citizens to raise production)! No problem! But we have to weigh pro's and con's. Pro: faster production, con: loss of citizens. As I've pointed out: IMO, the loss of citizens is worse than building a library in Karakorum and slow down growth by starting with a specialist (Besides the fact, that the lib has further plus-points-).
Any other opinions than yours and mine? Or maybe backup here for BlkBird or for me?

But we have to weigh pro's and con's. Pro: faster production, con: loss of citizens. As I've pointed out: IMO, the loss of citizens is worse than building a library in Karakorum and slow down growth by starting with a specialist (Besides the fact, that the lib has further plus-points-).

I'm not saying you must not build Library in Karakorum. But Karakorum's Population is going to exceed the limit long before the Library is finished. You can either (1) simply "Avoid Growth" and thus waste the food or (2) apply Slavery. You're talking about "losing citizens", which doesn't make sense since we can't keep the next citizen anyway. So why waste it?

Slavery in Karakorum has nothing to do with what you want to build there. As long as you're not going to train Settlers and Workers non-stop (which you've said you don't want to), the Population overflow is practically forcing us to use Slavery.

In short: "loss of citizen" may be a con, but "loss of extra citizen which cannot be kept" is no con at all.

Aha, a significant debate. :)

Here's the tradeoff.

A library will increase science, so would a scientist specialist. Which one increases science more? Is there something else which can be built after the library is finished, which would benefit from starting earlier? Would pop-rushing drop population by the 1 point which will be restored, or more than one point? Will unhappieness increase to the point that fewer citizens would be working? (In Civ4, unhappy citizens refuse to work, so you lose their hammers and possibly gold).

Proponents of one or both side of the debate should put up some facts for our consideration.

I think we need to gear our capital more towards units and production, while Beshabalik provides our settlers and workers. Frankly, I never feel truly safe till frontier towns (at the moment all our cities) have two or more defenders.

Secondly, we need escorts for our attack force as well, and a couple of extra archers never hurt anybody (They can be redirected to newer cities as well).

With regards to Egypt getting the culture upperhand on us... They're supposed to, what with their +2 culture / turn bonus.

~~~~~~~~~

With regards to our new city, send an archer from our Capital down. We'll replace him ASAP, then follow with the settler. We need to hook up to copper, so that we get swordsmen soon, as well.

With regards to Egypt getting the culture upperhand on us... They're supposed to, what with their +2 culture / turn bonus.

Absolutely the same view here. But thanks for putting it so clear. We as a nation don't need to (and infact can't) be ahead in *every* aspect so early in the game. I don't see why we have to have a culture upperhand right now, either.

With regards to our new city, send an archer from our Capital down. We'll replace him ASAP, then follow with the settler. We need to hook up to copper, so that we get swordsmen soon, as well.

You have my vote.

Regarding the "Slavery in Karakorum" issue, I'm still waiting for an answer of my question, why losing an extra citizen which we can't keep anyway is an actual loss.

I see there is a poll about next research goal.

@Stilgar08: You really should post a hint in the discussion thread (here) when you set up a poll.

hmm, looking at the screenshots, lemme give some advice...

1 - I wouldn't settle a city that far out. (the 2nd city) Reason? Maintanence, and #2... (besides, in a MP game, that city would be killed off quickly).

2 - I'd protect the worker. Animals have two movement and can pop out of the shadows and kill the worker. And #3...

3 - The location of that northern city isn't very good, as you've got mostly desert. Yes, there's fish, but it isn't gonna be very productive. (You can't use mountains, either). I'd probably build closer to the hills to the west or south-west, and maybe even shoot for those horses.

4 - It looks like you're trying a settler pump? In Civ4, the object is to build your economy first. You're making -1gpt. Ok, that's not much, but once you start building more cities, you'll feel the pinch big time.

5 - I see no hamlets. Those are needed to fuel your economy.

6 - I always try to nab atleast one religion early on. Why? Because:

a: I can build monastaries.
b: I can spread my religion around, allowing for even more monastaries.
c: I can build a shrine, allowing all cities in the world with your state religion in their cities, including AI ones to generate gold. That's very powerful. Spread it to enough AI cities, and you can make them convert to your religion, bringing point d.
d: If the AI civ's state religion is the same as yours, and you have the holy city for that religion, every city with that religion can be viewed by you.. (and vice versa for the AI if you have a religion that's the same as another AI who owns that religion).

3 - The location of that northern city isn't very good, as you've got mostly desert. Yes, there's fish, but it isn't gonna be very productive. (You can't use mountains, either). I'd probably build closer to the hills to the west or south-west, and maybe even shoot for those horses.

I'm confused. What do you mean by "shoot for those horses"? The only Horse on the map has already been secured by us (even Pastured and Routed).

The horses 3 NW of the capital. (I'm referring to the first picture).

The horses 3 NW of the capital. (I'm referring to the first picture).

That's a "before"-picture. Better look at the last three in section "Outlook 1".

I read all of the posts and will do my turns tomorrow (26.th and post them here in the section.

You're talking about "losing citizens", which doesn't make sense since we can't keep the next citizen anyway. So why waste it?...........
Regarding the "Slavery in Karakorum" issue, I'm still waiting for an answer of my question, why losing an extra citizen which we can't keep anyway is an actual loss.

You know that we could keep the citizen if we wanted to. I pointed out how it could be done...
A specialist uses up food (therefore slowers growth! - You get my drift?) but gives something back to the civilization. A "used slave" is gone.

But since there seems to be a majority for building units and I'm only a humble servant of our civ I will give in regardless of my own point of view. I strongly feel it's not the right thing to do so, but the warmup has to move on...
In the real DG I would continue discussing but OTOH everything's been said (several times already!)... :rolleyes:

I see there is a poll about next research goal.

@Stilgar08: You really should post a hint in the discussion thread (here) when you set up a poll.

Agreed! BTW, I checked the results and so it will be IW as next research-project. (I disagree again - Oh, the pain of democracy ;) )

Merry Christmas everybody! :)

Stilgar

You know that we could keep the citizen if we wanted to. I pointed out how it could be done...
A specialist uses up food (therefore slowers growth! - You get my drift?) but gives something back to the civilization. A "used slave" is gone.

You tried to, but I believe you have a misunderstanding about how Happiness works in Civ4.

First, you want to set up a Scientist (or some other Specialist, doesn't matter) *after* you've built Library. But the next citizen will be there *before* you can finish Library.

Second, even if you set up a Specialist right now, you won't resolve the Happiness issue. A Specialist "consumes" Happiness just like a citizen working the tiles. Karakorum doesn't have any Happiness left right now to grow again, and you can't change this by assigning the citizens to any different tasks.

The only ways to keep the citizen is: (1) let the citizen be "angry" and refuse to work - I don't see why we should do that, especially since an angry citizen consumes Food while doing nothing; or (2) increase Karakorums Happiness - I don't see how this can be done short-term.

BTW, I checked the results and so it will be IW as next research-project. (I disagree again - Oh, the pain of democracy ;) )

Arguably the most important issue at the current stage of our game is to decide where to build our next cities. The location of Iron is a crucial factor in that decision. Therefore researching Iron Working and thus revealing Iron (and particularly before our rivals do so) cannot be underestimated.

And the importance of Iron itself lies in - among others - Swordsman, which would be very handy in case we want to start invading Arabia at some time.

You tried to, but I believe you have a misunderstanding about how Happiness works in Civ4.

BlkBird, this will be my final post in this thread and I won't comment anymore on this issue, but let me assure you that I understand the ways of happiness/unhappiness in Civ4 quite well. The misunderstanding lies on your side I believe. I think you don't see what I mean.
In a last effort to clarify:
I know that specialists don't live outside the happiness-calculation, but specialists don't work city-tiles. You get food from city-tiles. If you set a specialist he cannot work tiles, he will contribute to the civ by giving GPP and his special bonus (scientist: +3science to give an example).
But a specialist eats food therefore slowing down growth of a city.


The only ways to keep the citizen is: (1) let the citizen be "angry" and refuse to work - I don't see why we should do that, especially since an angry citizen consumes Food while doing nothing

I cannot understand why you see that anry citizens do nothing but consume food and don't understand that specialist DO something but concume food, too!!?? :confused:

Well, nevertheless, my turns are done and we can continue to discuss specialist-issues the next time such a problem shows up!

Cheers and Merry christmas everybody!

Stilgar08

P.S.: You were right on IW!!! :goodjob: ;)
I was able to follow the majority opinion, used the whip, built a settler, a new archer and still got my library and specialist! ;) check the new thread (will be up in a second...)

BlkBird, this will be my final post in this thread and I won't comment anymore on this issue, but let me assure you that I understand the ways of happiness/unhappiness in Civ4 quite well.

This that case, the only misunderstanding is about the timing. I think you still haven't noticed that you would not have been able to finish the Library before the Population had exceeded the Happiness.

But now you have utilized Slavery, you speeded everything up, and all is well. :)