http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/MP12_00.jpg

Civilization - Persia
Difficulty - Monarch
Map Script - Ice Age
World Size - Standard
Landmass - Narrow Continents
Sea Level - High
Game Speed - Epic
Opponents - 6 Random

I've got some military victories on Prince but haven't attempted a game at this difficulty yet. I would like to play with some similarly skilled (or better) players. This may be difficult, but with our combined skills it can be accomplished. :cool:

Roster
MeteorPunch
Munterpipe
goraemon
Robo Mike
ThERat
- open spot

I'm up. Monarch should be a nice challenge. usually play on prince as well.

A warmonger strategy for monarch, hm? Well I've been currently beating some monarch games myself, but many of them had been commerce/technology oriented, which you can never really ignore in any case. Will be a challenge, I'll give it a go.

What about the starting location? Coastal would be nice, but at the current spot we got fresh water and possibly some more resources in the fog.

"Cold War" would have been a cooler title...

Saaaayy I could barely win at Monarch... but I'll sign up as an alternate anyway, if you permit.

What about the starting location? Coastal would be nice, but at the current spot we got fresh water and possibly some more resources in the fog.It's a little tricky situation. I was thinking to move 1W - that way we get coast and +1 hammer for the plains/hill and keep the fresh water lake.
"Cold War" would have been a cooler title...Hmm, debateable. I was going for cool points though. :D
Saaaayy I could barely win at Monarch... but I'll sign up as an alternate anyway, if you permit.What's your "best" military victory? Can you win on Prince?

Meteor, you are daring, we can't even win my rat09 game on prince :(

Meteor, you are daring, we can't even win my rat09 game on prince :(I wouldn't have started the game if I felt we didn't have a chance. Noble is frickin' easy now - I've won 3 military wins on standard size map on that. Prince is reasonable hard - but not that much harder. Monarch will definitely be a true challenge that will require a good effort by everyone on the team.

Hopefully the "SG community" will be laughing at Monarch military victories soon when all the correct strategies have been standardized. :)

edit: are you signing up? :mischief:

edit: are you signing up?wanted to start my own next desaster game (all those rat games end up in defeat), but I join yours first....

wanted to start my own next desaster game (all those rat games end up in defeat), but I join yours first....lol...that's true. My last 2 are 0-2 as well. Too many AWDG losses between us. :D

I'll start the game off with the us 5, but I wouldn't mind having 6 if anyone else still wants to join.

I remember Sirian saying something about Epic SGs turnsets going 30/20/15/15/15 turns then back to 10 for the second round. I'll probably go with something like that. Does anyone remember what he said about this?

Roster
MeteorPunch
Munterpipe
goraemon
Robo Mike
ThERat
- open spot

If anyone is curious about the map type, it is Ice Age - Narrow Continents. From Sirian's Map Guide (http://civilization4.net/3/175/).
http://civilization4.net/files/articles/sirian_maps/sample_ice_age.gif

Just an idea, you might want to settle the tile below the wheat--move through the wheat & it's only 1 turn (i.e. wheat tile is not a forest tile), it will be on fresh water, still get the wheat, and also be a coastal city--leaving the cattle for a city a little more northward. That way, you leave the hills to be mined, which might help since this city spot looks, so far, to be very food-rich and shield-poor.

Anyway, good luck. I haven't been brave enough to make the move to monarch yet, so I'll be watching with interest!

Just an idea, you might want to settle the tile below the wheat--move through the wheat & it's only 1 turn (i.e. wheat tile is not a forest tile), it will be on fresh water, still get the wheat, and also be a coastal city--leaving the cattle for a city a little more northward. That way, you leave the hills to be mined, which might help since this city spot looks, so far, to be very food-rich and shield-poor.Moving is kinda risky because the land down there may be worse. We have forests for production, but that's not as good as hills...

Autolog impersonation:
02 3960 Persepolis founded. Start on worker and Animal Husbandry, both due in 18 turns.
03 3920 Scout gets another Scout from a goodie hut.
09 3680 Scout kills a Wolf.
10 3640 Scout gets a Map from a goodie hut. :mad:
14 3480 Scout kills a Lion. Buddhism founded in a distant land.
19 3280 Scout kills a Lion. Scout gets Fishing tech from goodie hut.
20 3240 Animal Husbandry discovered. Start on The Wheel -> Pottery. Worker built, start on Barracks.
23 3120 Scout kills a Lion.
31 2800 Scout kills a Lion. Hinduism founded in a distant land.

We should start building a Settler at size 2 when the wheat has a farm.

My crappy attempt at a dotmap. We're on an island, as you can see. I'm worried about our overall production and lack of rivers (commerce).
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/MP12_01.jpg

Roster
MeteorPunch - just played (30)
Munterpipe - up (play 20 turns)
goraemon - on deck (play 15)
Robo Mike - (15)
ThERat - (15)
- open spot

Sign me up!

Got it. Will Play some time today

What's your "best" military victory? Can you win on Prince?
Hmm my last victory (and only one so far) on Monarch was using Cyrus/Persia as well. Never took the lead until 1800 AD. I did not win by domination though, I got into a standoff with the Chinese and was forced to go to space. But I won. I did use the "park warrior near enemy capital" exploit in that game though.

I'm back to Noble difficulty to practice the early UN victory (http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/game_info.php?entryID=92)...

Hey hey hey, am I seeing my name on the roster? No no, pull me out. I'm scared. :lol: I'll lurk and be alternate.

Ooh, looks like a tough little piece of island..and we're alone, to boot? Those two gold locations look enticing, for relative lack of commerce otherwise. Grabbed early, they can really help speed up research.

Ok, here goes. I'll do 20 turns

0: We've got growth in two, the Wheel in three, wheatfarm in four and barracks due in nine

turn 2
Persopolis grows and I start a settler immediatly.

turn 3
The wheel is done. I see you had your mind set on Pottery MeteorPunch, but I think I'll go for mining. That goldmine to the south will bring us more commerce than a lot of cottages, and Bronze Working will be great as well.
I spot some wolves outside our borders and bring our rookie scout close for an xp point:)

turn 4
Scout kills wolves. Our wheatfarm is done. Settler due in only 11 turns:goodjob: This has got to be epic, right;)
connect the wheat with our capitol.

turn 7
Worker starts a road one south of the wheat. I will follow the dotmap you made MeteorPunch, and go for the spot by the cattle and the gold.

turn 8
Scout to the east kills some wolves. It has already reached the 5 xp cap though.

turn 9
Borders expand. Creative is way cool!
hmmm... Spot some bears one east of our city spot. It won't bother our worker, but could trouble our expansion as it is strength 3 and our scout in the area is a real pssy:mischief:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=108026&stc=1&d=1134911152
Let's bring in our veteran woddsman 2, superscout to handle the deal before our Setler is ready to settle in.


turn 12
Worker moves one south to road some more.

turn 14
Scout move to the city spot, fortifying. The bear is out of sight, for now.
That extra 25% defence bonus could prove decisive if the bear returns to attack

turn 15
Alot happens at once. Mining is done, just in time for our worker to mine the gold.
Now, Civ is all about choices, I hear. In the beginning of a game, like now, the choices are not that many, but the few, like what to research next are very important.
Bronce Working will let us chop forests, which we have in abundance,
enable slavery,
discover copper, (hopefully)
and grant us axemen (hopefully:) )
Pottery will give us cottages and granaries, (but with a goldmine soon done, cottages will not be that important right now)
We will need sailing, but not right now I think.
Archery is a safe choice, (we have NO millitary)
Writing, Masonry, Mysticism and Horseback riding are all ok choices, (more or less) but I think I'll go for B.W.
Getting copper would be huge, but even if we don't, Slavery and chopping will give us huge productive benefits.
Settler is done and moves towards our spot. Barracks due in 6

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=108028&stc=1&d=1134911152

turn 16
Start mining gold mine, The settler moves and then i notice something.
Bear!:eek:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=108025&stc=1&d=1134911152

IBTW:
Our woodsman 2 kills the bear attacking our city spot, protecting the settler on the very same spot! I sent the settler there two turns ago, and it arrived on turn 16 (see screenshot) The same turn as the bear shoved up next to the settler and the fortified scout. I did not notice the bear before the settler had moved:mad: Huge mistake, since if the bear had killed the scout (about 50/50 chance I guess) it would have taken the settler too, which would have been a huge blow to our game. I got lucky and the scout won, but we do not want to make that kind of stupid mistakes on Monarch if we want to win this. What I should have done, of course, was to hold the settler back a turn and let the battle play out, while moving our other scout in for further defence against (in case of defeat) a wounded bear.
Well, it's nice to be lucky though, and I proudly found our second city Bearfall.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=108027&stc=1&d=1134911152

In seven turns our goldmine will be ready for a nice 0/2/7 which will allmost double our beaker output for the moment 9->16
I go for another settler at Bearfall and when th mine is done we will get some nice commerce, while only producin settlerg at 3 shields per turn.
Then the worker should pasturize the cows and get the settler moving at 7 shields per turn, de-prioritizing commerce for some turns until settler is done, and Bearfall grows one more size.
This is of course up to you guys up next, but please think it through at least.

turn 20
Barracks and growth in Persopolis is due next turn
Settler in Bearfall is due in 35:mischief: but that will change once we get our cattle going. Bronze Working is due in 23 as we are down to 90 % science, but it will speed up for some turns when the gold is ready. By the way due in 4 turns. We got two Scouts fortified as well.


http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=108029&stc=1&d=1134911152

That bear pic! :eek: oh man..:lol:

I have some criticisms which I think we should discuss:

1. Why is Bearfall building a settler at size 1? That's just crazy. It should be on barracks or a warrior.

2. Bronce Working will let us chop forests, which we have in abundance,
enable slavery,
discover copper, (hopefully)
and grant us axemen (hopefully )
Pottery will give us cottages and granaries, (but with a goldmine soon done, cottages will not be that important right now)
We will need sailing, but not right now I think.I don't see the need to chop if there is nothing to build...Will we chop forests to rush warriors and barracks? I rather have archery and much rather have Pottery. Please someone convince me why we should continue with Bronze Working. Also, does anyone know what causes barbarian Axemen to appear? I've heard 3 different things: either when anyone discovers bronze working, when you discover bronze working, or when you have bronze or iron connected. Does anyone know this? It affects our decision to continue researching BW.

3. Please leave the save titled, "MP12-year.Civ4Savegame"

Other things.
Persepolis: should build some warriors, then another settler after barracks.

Here's another map. this has the 3rd city site, 2 scouts to clear the fog, and a fortified position to defend against barbarian units from the east. Next player should set this up.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/MP12_02.jpg

New Roster:
Roster
MeteorPunch
Munterpipe - just played (play 15)
goraemon - up (15)
ThERat - on deck (15)
DeceasedHorse
- open spot
(alternate) Robo Mike

I forgot about the gold mine...it's on a desert. No food means it won't be worked until our population has maxed out.

Hi,

Also, does anyone know what causes barbarian Axemen to appear? I've heard 3 different things: either when anyone discovers bronze working, when you discover bronze working, or when you have bronze or iron connected.
It's definately not when you have copper or iron connected, because I've seen barb axemen appear before I have the resources connected.
I also think it's not when you discover bronze working, as I seem to remember I got axemen before I had discovered the tech - but I'm only 90% sure on that.

-Kylearan

Thanks, Kylearan. I'm gonna assume it's when any civ discovers BW. In that case we need archers. 2-3 of them fortified on that spot in the woods should stop the barbs.

The reason I started on a settler on size one, was because of the Goldmine. I wanted to work that as fast as possible, because of the 7 commerce it brings. It has no food, so the city wouldn't grow anyway if it was indeed working the gold, therefore might as well start on a settler which we will need. Let our capitol with barracks build warriors to protect our cities. So the choice was on one hand: allmost doubling the early science output and stalling the growth of bearfall, for the moment. On the other hand, we could grow the city while building warriors and barracks and wait with the gold for slower research. I am standing on research over growth at least untill the pasture east of bearfall is done.

Anyway, I am glad for the discussion. The start of a game like this is all about balancing commerce, growth, production and expansion.

On the Bronze Working issue, I agree that slavery and chopping alone isn't that good, but I think I'm a bit of a gambler. I'd like to throw the dice for some copper on our island. Could change our view on where to put our third city too.

Sorry about naming the save wrongly, it will be corrected in the future :)

OK, I guess I'm up :O Lots of interesting little decisions. I'll take a look sometime today.

OK, here is my 15 turns.

EOT 2000BC (Turn 0): I see that the barbarians have archer already:eek:
108078

I guess I have a decision to make regarding the research path - Bronze Working, Pottery or even Archery. After some consideration, I decided to stick with BW and try to get it researched within my turns. The initial holdup on other techs does hurt a bit, and it's a risky maneuver, but I think the rewards of chop-rushing and possible location of bronze nearby outweigh its downsides if we can do it quickly enough.

Since we're alone on this continent, we should try to make use of what resources it has ASAP and focus on infrastructure whilst trying to meet other civs. That means we should go for at least 6-7 cities or so right here and try to boost research, since early military is somewhat less crucial other than to defend against barbs. In order to do that, choprushing is crucial. Pottery can wait until the next cycle, and in the meantime our warriors will have a job to do. If we fill up this continent and/or set up enough units on key locations to uncover the fog, we won't even have to worry too much about barbs on our land anyway.

So I leave the research as it is but temporarily boost science to 100%, netting -1 gold per turn. I temporarily switch the 2nd city from building settlers to barracks, to let it grow a little bit while the gold is still being mined by the worker. On principle, though, it's not a bad idea to stunt growth of cities in the early going if one is trying to expand one's territory, at least until enough cottages are built to run them profitably.

EOT we get a look at the largest civ in the world and find that we're smack in the middle:
108080

Turn 1: Barracks completed in Capital. Capital grows to size 3. Start warrior, due in 4 turns.

Turn 2: :hammer:

Turn 3 EOT: Worker completes the gold mine :D, I switch over to work that tile, which means the city growth is stalled. Thus I switch over to settler building.

Turn 4: I move the worker over to the pasture currently outside Bearfall's cultural borders, which is set to expand next turn and this way I'll be able to work the pasture just in time.

Turn 5: Bearfall's culture expands. Begin working pasture. Warrior #1 completed in capital. I move him out eastwards to clear the fog and scout for barbs. Start 1 more warrior in capital, due in 4 turns.

Turn 6: :hammer:

EOT 6: Someone founded Judaism:eek:

Turn 7: :hammer:

Turn 8: Persepolis grows to size 4.

Turn 9: Warrior #2 completed. I move him out to clear some more fog. Begin worker in capital, due in 8 turns. We'll have some work to do once BW completes and pottery is on the way.

Turn 10: Worker completes pasture EOT. I switch over to work that tile, for now.

Turn 11: I move worker to the forest tile just outside of Bearfall's cultural boundaries. BW is due to complete in 1 turn so it's perfect timing to chop rush next turn.

Turn 12: BW discovered :D, NO Copper nearby!:( I get started on Pottery due in 10 turns. Worker begins chopping to help rush Bearfall's settler. Afterwards I switch the city's working tile back over to the gold mine to cut Pottery's research time to 7.

Turn 13-15: :hammer:

And that's it. I didn't found any new cities but we're well on our way. The 2 warriors confirm that there is no immediate danger of barbarians (I've fortified them on forests and hills respectively for now). Here's my attempt at a dotmap of our current situation:
108092

As mentioned before, we have no copper on our continent so we just have to work with what we've got. The red dots indicate my opinion on where our next cities should be placed. We can squeeze in at least 7 cities this way, with minimal overlap, and in position to make use of ALL of our currently known resources. Since our initial land mass is small we should make use of as much of it as possible. Pottery is due in 4, with worker #2 due a couple turns sooner. I'd begin churning out settlers/additional workers at this point to expand, and begin building cottages while keeping watch for barbs.
108093

Roster
MeteorPunch
Munterpipe
goraemon - Just played
ThERat - UP NOW (15)
DeceasedHorse - On deck
- open spot
(alternate) Robo Mike

ok got it, tonight...

oh dear, we got no copper, let's hope we have at least iron. Anyway, with this sort of start it is best to try and get our economy up and running. cottages will really help in the long run and of course, we should try and get to optics soonish so we can meet others

by the way, I think we could have other city placements near our capital
shift the southern red dot 2 tiles NE, and the other north between gems and cow...what do you all think?

Great turnset. Agree with you ThERat, that we could fit two cities east of Perso. Both coastal, one by cattle gems, one in range of the sugar. And there could perhaps be room for another city east and between Our two current cities as well.


Damn. No copper...

Okay I think I'm confident now so put me in the queue.

Do we plan to get any religions or are we skipping that option?

I don't think there will be any barbs on our island if we have visual. And being alone is good... we won't be bothered by any expanding AI civs for a while... I hope.

On one side, being alone is good in the way you mentioned, but trading with another civ would gain us alot as well. Let's send out some exploring ships soon:)

Yeah, but AI is bound to settle on any land available, so we might need to cover our isle asap and flip any cities that attempt to pop up. This is Monarch so I presume the coastal AI's will have one galley soon.

Yeah, I think there are more important things to worry about right now than religion..since we're alone we can't immediately benefit from getting and spreading an early religion around other civs, and by the time we meet someone we'd be considered heathens etc. I say focus on initial expansion (we can fit minimum 7, probably 8 or even 9 cities on this continent alone) and economy with an army of workers. Not being able to trade around techs early hurts, but we have to compensate by trying to be self-sufficient. There's always the chance that the land NE and/or SW from our continent harbors the teaming of life so going seabound should be in our plan soonish as well. Good luck :D

save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/MP12_BC-1250.Civ4SavedGame)

Pre-Turn
we know nobody, have 2 cities and need to expand
one settler seems to get sped up by a forest chop
increas science to 100%

1. 1600BC
1st chop is done, settler down to 16

2. 1575BC
we get another worker, that will chop some forest as well

3. 1550BC
both workers are chopping now

IT pottery is in -> go for sailing next, we need lighthouses and galley anyway

4. 1525BC
chop chop

5. 1500BC
we have another warrior and go for settler in the capital, the mousepointer locks up and I need to restart the computer

6. 1475BC
chop done in the capital,

7. 1450BC
zzz

8. 1425BC
settler done in bearfall, set it for growth and granary

9. 1400BC
settler going for it's destination

10. 1375BC
settler moving up

11. 1350BC
found Pasergadae in the north, income drops to -4gpt at 100%

12. 1325BC
we get another settler, go for granary in capital as well
MM so we get granary in 3 and growth in 4
research drops to 90%

13. 1300BC
Bearfall now has a granary

14. 1275BC
found Susa, MM again to optimize income and shields

15. 1250BC
Persepolis finishes the granary, will grow next turn, so set on warrior

next turn sailing comes in, I would swap the cities to lighthouse, let them grow and go for more settler after that
we also need more workers of course and build a galley to sail around and find more nice land
I also started on cottages, they are mighty powerful in the long run

we should go for either archery or iron working next

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/mp121250.jpg

for next player:

- lower science to 80%.
- switch Persepolis to a worker (we need cottages ASAP, there are 2 nice grassland spots by Susa).
- next tech? I think archery then alphabet.

everyone:

- make sure to not clear all our forests! we will need production someday.
- usually I'm a grassland-cottage, plains-farms player...but we have almost all plains. What should we do here to have hope of competing in tech?

Roster
MeteorPunch
Munterpipe
goraemon
ThERat - Just played
DeceasedHorse - up (play 15)
Robo Mike - on deck, rejoined (15)

usually I'm a grassland-cottage, plains-farms player...but we have almost all plains. What should we do here to have hope of competing in tech?
Possibly...
1. mine the gems (req's iron working to get rid of evil trees)
2. expand quickly on the right side and build cottages on grassland riverbank squares
3. expand on the right side and mine gold

EDIT: that being said due to the lack of grassland we may need to deforest any and all grasslands for towns.

MP, I would wait a turn for setting our capital to worker, let it grow to 5 first, the worker will surely be faster. I would actually let it build a galley first

and for the tech I would go iron working since we need it to connect the gems and we must know whether we have iron on our Island, then maybe alphabet

Possibly...
1. mine the gems (req's iron working to get rid of evil trees)yep definitely, but 1 mine will not support an empire.:mischief:
2. expand quickly on the right side and build cottages on grassland riverbank squares
3. expand on the right side and mine goldExpanding to the right side would be nice, and definitely in the future, but I think anymore expansion will kill our current economy.

MP, I would wait a turn for setting our capital to worker, let it grow to 5 first, the worker will surely be faster. I would actually let it build a galley firstdidn't realize it was 1 turn for growth. wait 1 turn, then start on worker.
and for the tech I would go iron working since we need it to connect the gems and we must know whether we have iron on our Island, then maybe alphabetokay how about this: archery->Iron working. archery will be discovered very fast and will keep us safe while we wait for iron (which will take awhile).

Yeah it won't support our empire but a couple of extra $$ a turn will be okay for our tiny little nation for now, before we expand to the right or the "mainland".

I think there are more pressing concerns atm for the new cities than granaries. Keeping initial cities small while we're still expanding helps minimize maintenance costs.

Definitely get more workers I say, and deforest/cottage up the grassland tiles by the river, then normal grassland tiles asap. Also deforest any hills probably and mine them. We could also go for lighthouses soonish in the coastal cities. We still have half of the continent left to settle, maybe go for the gold mine to the right first..not sure about this, it's a judgment call.

Archery sounds fine as our next tech, and then..hmm, either iron working or writing (do we already have writing? Don't think so)..

While we're expanding the initial commerce will have to suffer somewhat so mining the gems/gold/cottages are very important while we temporarily lower the research to 70 or maybe even 60%.

Edit: Oh yeah, and we should move the warriors/scouts eastwards to clear the fog. We don't have to worry about barbs or enemy civs in our cities' immediate vicinities right now anyway..and as for deforestation, I'd leave the plains alone for now unless maybe they're right by a river..the extra health/production helps.

Got it!

Yup

Definately

Preturn: No changes

Turn 1: Sailing comes in, start on Archery. Switch the capital to settler, and re-arange tiles to get our worker in 6 turns instead of 7. The lose in commerce forces me to drop to 70% research, archery due in 6.

T2: Nothing

T3: Ditto

T4: Start a forest chop/cottage build near the capital.

T5: Nada mucho.

T6: Yup

T7: Archery finishes, start on Iron Working as ordered. Our veteran scout runs into a barb archer, will probably die next turn . Persepolis finishes worker, starts on Archer which should be done next turn when the worker finishes the forest chop.

IBT: Barb archer does indeed take out our scout.

Turn 8: Persepolis build an archer of our own and he is immediately sent east. Shave six turns off of Iron Working research in exchange for getting a settler built in the capital in 11 turns instead of 10. Science at 80%.

Turn 9: Susa grows, switched to worker.

Turn 10; Bearfall finishes barracks, starts on Archer.

T11: Our other scout locates the hated barb archers one square west of the eastern gold hill and hightails it out of there

T12: Pasagrade reaches size 2, but I decide to let it finish its granary as it can do it in only 3 more turns.

T13: Our other scout gets wacked. Oooops.

Turn 14: Bearfall finishes its chop-assisted Archer, and starts on a galley with plenty of left-over forest shields to help out.

Turn 15: Pasagrade builds Granary, starts on worker (definitely vetoable). Persepolis finishes settler, starts on archer (ditto, but I figure we might want to let the city grow to size six, its current happiness max, before building another worker or settler). I wouldn’t chop any more of the forests around Bear Landing, as it currently is enjoying a +1 health bonus for the three it has left; we have a worker chopping down the last one outside its borders. Settler was left unmoved. Ironworking due in 9 turns @ +1 gpt and current citizen allocation. We have a combat one archer moving through the eastern forests and a city defender archer in Bear Landing. We have a worker building a cottage next to Susa, a couple of others near the capital building more cottages in place of the forests they cut down, and another east of Bear Landing cutting another down to get the galley built.

Looks good.

I made a new dotmap (with the nice show terrain button).The eastern land looks better than our start. We have a settler ready to go, but don't build anymore. We are expanding at a decent pace, after the 2 new workers perhaps we'll fill out the continent. The "last city" location sucks. We'll probably try to get the NE Gems island before that location.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/MP12_03.JPG


Roster
MeteorPunch - on deck (down to 10 turns)
Munterpipe
goraemon
ThERat
DeceasedHorse - just played
Robo Mike - on deck (play 15)

I got it and will play shortly.

I say get the gold first. Or maybe make the 1st city coastal, to grab that nice fish resource. Otherwise we'd be founding a city 1 tile from the coast.

I say get the gold first. Or maybe make the 1st city coastal, to grab that nice fish resource. Otherwise we'd be founding a city 1 tile from the coast.The first city is coastal.

Hmm, I see a galley being produced, where should I take it?

1. explore lower left isle
2. explore upper right "gems" isle

Hmm, I see a galley being produced, where should I take it?

1. explore lower left isle
2. explore upper right "gems" isleFlip a coin. :D

Ohkaaay, I do so and Gem island wins. I plan to pick up that warrior blocking the 1-tile land bridge so he can explore the new island. Turns continue.

The first city is coastal.

I should've clarified. By "1st city" I meant the city you tagged as "First City" on your latest dotmap.

I should've clarified. By "1st city" I meant the city you tagged as "First City" on your latest dotmap.It is coastal though. The "first city" tag is west of the silk and south, southeast of the fish.

the one coastal tile to the northwest makes it coastal.

Oh, my bad, I confused the "First City" arrow with the resource arrow. :D

It's late (12 midnight already) and I'll just publish my autolog + screens. It should be informative and fun...
:band:

Turn 97 (880 BC)
* I take a look at the financial advisor. We have 10 free units and now have 7. We can afford 3 more workers.
* I still don't like to settle the settler due to financial reasons (it's likely to kill Persia and us). I park new settler at Susa.

Turn 98 (860 BC)
* Light blue archer, meet Black archer. :ar15:
IBT: Archer defeats (2.55/3): Barbarian Archer
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/01-archerpromoted.jpg

Turn 99 (840 BC)
* I don't pick a promotion. Move archer to nearby hill forest grassland tile.
* Worker moves to pasture to build road.

IBT: Some historian says we are hopeless. What nonsense. I am certain a historian in the future will write about the rise of the Persian Empire!
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/02-hopeless.jpg

Turn 100 (820 BC)
Bearfall finishes: Galley
* Galley moves to gem isle as the coin toss ordered. Will pick up warrior in land bridge later.

Turn 101 (800 BC)
* Worker finishes chop on previous turn. Galley built, decide to mine grassy hill shortly.
Persepolis finishes: Archer

Turn 102 (780 BC)
* Worker near Susa starts farm on sugar. We can always blow it up in the future.
* Archer finishes in Perso and I accept the Warrior in queue.
* I don't think there are any Civ-2 style super barbarian musketman landing parties, so I begin to move archer into the right exotic side of our island.
Persepolis grows: 6

Turn 103 (760 BC)
* Perso worker starts farm 1N of freshwater lake.

Turn 104 (740 BC)
Persepolis finishes: Warrior
Bearfall grows: 4

Turn 105 (720 BC)
Persepolis begins: Worker
* I start new worker on Perso seeing as we can afford it.
* New warrior should police for Susa so I move him there.
Tech learned: Iron Working

Turn 106 (700 BC)
Research begun: Writing
* Iron working finishes, I pick Writing as we really need to catch up in tech. Plus there is nothing left to buildi n Perso in
* PERSIA HAVE GOT IRON! Even though it's not within any city's workable radius it's welcome news. In gratitude, the Persian people hold a festival for the discovery of iron. :dance: I could only wish there was a "We love the Despot" day right now.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/03-iron!!!.jpg

Turn 107 (680 BC)
:hammer:

Turn 108 (660 BC)
* Galley arrives. I move warrior onto galley.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/04-galleynwarrior.jpg

IBT: Susa finishes: Worker

Turn 109 (640 BC)
* Worker appears in Susa. Move him to cows in Parsagadae.
* What to do with worker near Bearfall...
* Hooking up iron now.

Turn 110 (620 BC)
* Susa worker goes to other side of river and builds another cottage.
* Warrior fortifies in Susa. Don't forget the settler.

The map of the Persian empire and what might need to be done:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/05-stateofthenation.jpg

Other things:
Our research on Writing is almost done so it's time for our Libs and great scientists... er, I mean, specialists.
Good luck to any further successors. We will need it as this is Monarch. :salute:

Looks good. I'll get it tomorrow - back to 10 turns each.

We're running at 80% science with a profit to boot according to that screenshot. We can afford another city immediately! Another gold mine will help. No reason to hold off on it.

yes, I agree, more cities are good at the moment. research won't suffer even with a lower science rate since we get more beakers.

I would also try and get a galley out to explore the south.

I suppose we will be able to afford another city since we will be mining gems shortly and new workers are coming out. Plus, more free unit maintenance for even more workers...

Time to settle I guess.

I had to play an extra turn to even the turns, but I accidently played an extra turn over, sorry. Time flies when you're having fun...:rolleyes:

110 620 I don't think the settler should have been left in Susa. It'll take him 6 turns to get there, so he should've at least been halfway there.
114 540 finish writing, start on alphabet
115 520 Arbela founded.
122 380 nice goodie hut. :sad:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/MP12_04.JPG

- don't build anymore workers...we might have what we need for the rest of the game.
- at the start of the next turn, immediately switch the settler in Persepolis to a galley to recieve the forest chop (have this worker then build a cottage). Send galley west.
- workboat next turn is for Arbela's fish.
- Some exploring of the NE "island" is accomplished and it is pretty large and uninhabited (has marble, gems, and crabs). Nice terrain too.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/MP12_05.JPG

Roster
MeteorPunch - just played
Munterpipe - up! (play 9)
goraemon - on deck (10)
ThERat
DeceasedHorse
Robo Mike

got it. will play tonight!

Here goes.

(1) Our unlucky warrior actually defeats both barbs:eek: Without a scratch! Grabs woodsman 2.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=108553&stc=1&d=1135299925
Work boat done in Pasargadae, heads for fish. Start a library. Switch settler to galley as suggested for the chop. Persopolis has reached the happines limit of 6. Growth in 3 turns. Gems are ready in 4 (with the help of another worker) so it shoudn't be that big a problem.

(3) Fishes are in the net. The small northern island is rather cold. It's got a lot of trees though. Is it possible to send a worker up there and chop like crazy, if we decide against settling there anyway? Could be interesting.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=108551&stc=1&d=1135299906

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=108555&stc=1&d=1135300220

(6) Library done in bearfall, start another archer for defence. The galley with hero warrior leaves cold island and sets for NE firtile island and a goodie hut.

(7) The galley we made in our capitol leaves east with a warrior and meets...
Mansa Musa. We've got company.:goodjob: Make peace for the moment and trade fur for cows and open borders.
hmmm, I did a screenie of Mansa's ugly face but it's gone:confused:

(9) End my turns here to make the numbers even. We should soon settle on the firtile Island to our northeast. It's got some great city sites.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=108552&stc=1&d=1135299984
Here's the save. I'm on holiday until january 1st and cat play Civ untill then. So skip me if i'm up before that.

You guys might be disappointed to know that I figured I might as well play my turns before going to sleep tonight, I did, ended up taking quite a few chances...and failed at every single one of them:cringe: :cringe: :cringe:

This game may as well be unofficially over now as I have single-handedly wasted our chances of victory.:cry:

Spasmodic gesticulations aside, here is my "too little, too late" turnset:

Turn 0: Still in expansion phase. Raised science from 70% to 80% temporarily, netting -1 / turn, cutting alphabet from 4 to 3 turns.

Turn 1: Archer completed in Bearfall. Begin 1 more worker. At the time all pivotal buildings have already been built there. Kept exploring w/galleys.

Turn 2: Didn't see the need for barracks atm in Arbela so switch to granary. Worker done building roads near Arbela so moved him south to finish pasture.

Turn 3: Settler done in capital, alphabet founded. Traded Mansa Musa iron/alphabet for masonry/mathematics/mysticism. Started on polytheism @ 4 turns. I got the idea that I wanted to go for a great lighthouse now (would be a boost for sure w/all these coastal cities) and decided Arbela had the most disposable trees atm. Switch from granary to lighthouse.

Turn 4: chop chop

EOT: Hinduism spreads in Persepolis, decided not to go for anarchy.

Turn 5: Galley to the west meets the Incans!

108579

He's annoyed that we traded w/Mansa Musa, and thus all trading options are redded out. He doesn't have anything good anyway.

Turn 6: Galley meets America (Roosevelt):

108580

He's pleased after I trade sailing for meditation.

Turn 7: Polytheism founded. Someone else built the Great Lighthouse :( Way too little, way too late. I was still only trying to chop finish the lighthouse (prereq). Not to be daunted, I trade Roosevelt polytheism for priesthood and immediately switch to the oracle in Arbela (workers chopping atm). Settler founds Tarsus near the gold mine:

108581

Move archer south to clear more fog and oops, barb archer alert.

EOT: archer defeats barb archer.

Turn 8: Persepolis and Susa grow in size, with Persepolis reaching happiness limit. Adjust working tile to limit growth. Galley finishes exploring the northeast island (no civ there, but decent land). Park warrior on the island.

Turn 9: Mostly worker actions. More chopping, jungle clearing, cottage building. Oracle's about halfway done, with perhaps 3-4 turns more chopping to go.

Turn 10: Pwned!@$# Someone beat us to the Oracle as well:mad: My guess is Mansa Musa is the culprit, as he all of a sudden has Code of Laws whereas he didn't the previous turn.

So all my efforts to garner these wonders have been eradicated, and our civ is now and forever doomed:(

...Well, not all is lost. We'll get some gold out of the Oracle next turn. Since workers are still chopping we can finish off some queued buildings in Arbela like the lighthouse/granary. Out of the 3 civs we know, Mansa Musa is the only one outteching us right now, and not by too much either (although that Code of Laws he got is a big jump). The other 2 civs we know are behind us. We're still chugging along atm at 70% science (like it was 10 turns ago), still with profit. Above all, scorewise we're now the current leader. Sure there are other civs we haven't met yet, but still:

108583

Furthermore, majority of cities are building libraries which will certainly help.

The gold mine can be worked in the new city anytime, right now I've put it on stagnant growth and queued it to build settler.

Would really like to settle that NE island before anyone else does although we have to be careful not to overextend.

As for Pyramids, I've decided against it because, eh, it's expensive and we don't have marble hooked up, but it's still there, unclaimed, if anyone wants to give it a try down the road.

We don't have a dedicated great person outlet yet. Libraries will give more options, but something to keep in mind.

Our empire:

108582

Good luck..hopefully better than mine:blush:

The save:

108585

Roster
MeteorPunch
Munterpipe
goraemon - just played
ThERat - UP NOW (10)
DeceasedHorse - On deck
Robo Mike

save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/MP12_AD-0200.Civ4SavedGame)

Pre-Turn
Tarsus is on a settler when it is size 1. makes no sense to me, swap to lighthouse

1. 20AD
we get 106gold for the Oracle and we increase science to 100%, lit now in 3

2. 40AD
Arbela finished lighthouse due to all the chops and now goes for a settler (in 6)
gift Incans polytheism and he gets cautious, that enables Open borders
I don't want to upset Mansa Musa, so I don't trade though it would be possible to get calendar
wait for literature first

3. 60AD
zzzz

4. 80AD
literature is in, next metal casting for more shields
what??? the same turn as we get literature, America and Mali have this tech as well???? :gripe: :gripe:

5. 100AD
am still angry about the tech trade

6. 120AD
zzzz

7. 140AD
Roosevelt wants to change cow for clams, sure why not?
we have 2 libraries now, capital goes for temple so it can grow

8. 160AD
we have another settler on the way to the northern Island now

9. 180AD
settler on the way, warrior already waiting
second gold is connected
set Bearfall on Great Library, doubtful that we get it, but is has nothing to build and the money will help our research

10. 200AD
settler is now in place, metal in 9, this will help our really shield poor cities
maybe we need mroe settlers soon as well

as mentioned I did not trade with Incans, since they don't like Mali and vice versa
one galley is sailing west

the northern Island
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/mp12200.jpg

the red dot will give us crabs as well, can't be seen from the screenie

Just posting to ask if we can hold off on playing the next turn for a bit. Can everyone patch up to 1.52?

Also I need to look at the past 2-3 turnsets and comment. :D I think I figured out a good strategy to win this one, so I'll see what you guys think.

I patched already, looks good with the patch...so what strategy do you have in mind?

Goraemon, I don't think you killed us yet. :lol: I'm not really a big fan of wonders at the moment for war games. I'd prefer us try to build a little empire without chasing them..but who knows?

Bearfall is building the Great Library...I think this is taking too long to even try. Can this be switched to archers - Bearfall is one of 2 or 3 only cities with barracks. I would like it to produce nothing but archers until we have 2 archers defending every city.

The settler on the "new island" should be covered by the warrior this turn.

Research Currency next.

Make the trade with Huana Cupac this turn for Calendar with both techs.

I revised ThERat's dotmap to use all the land tiles:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/MP12_06.JPG

Move this archer here to clear the remaining fog:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/MP12_07.JPG

I'm not wild about settling on the ice, as it will probably do more harm than good. Maybe we will want these spices, but we should think about it later:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/MP12_08.JPG

My basic plan is that we focus on colonizing the empty island and keep our science at at least 40%. Focus on commerce for now and defending our cities, but not building invasion units. Hopefully we will be able to start attacking with Catapults and Maces...if not that, then Catapults and Muskets...if not that, then definitely by Muskets and Cannons.

Roster
MeteorPunch
Munterpipe
goraemon
ThERat - just played
DeceasedHorse - up! (10 turns)
Robo Mike - on deck (10)

Notice all the plains tiles? A glaciated world is rather arid. Lots of water locked in the ice.
That's the biggest thing about Ice Age script.
Civil Service is magnified in urgency, and especially in the early game, farming dominates over cottages.
I got this from the other "winter" game. Explains all the plains tiles around our start. Luckily we have a lot of grassland in the areas we'll be expanding to.

Also, hopefully the AI's are stuck on crappy plains tiles with no cottages. :lol:

I really think we should build at least one wonder. We need the gold (upon failure).

I have a problem guys-I am using the direct2drive version of Civ IV, and I can't use the normal version of Firaxis's patchs, so I am still stuck on 1.09. You may have to skip me, I guess;

I played my turns with patch 1.09, so you can play this round, hopefully next round you have the new patch by then

I was wondering if everyone is here post-Christmas? DeceasedHorse, you're up. If you can get it, post a "got it." Otherwise Robo Mike will be up tomorrow (Dec 27).


Roster
MeteorPunch
Munterpipe
goraemon
ThERat - just played
DeceasedHorse - up! (10 turns)
Robo Mike - on deck (10)

I got it in 12 hours.

Pre-turn:

New patch is up. Forests give +1 health per 2 now so we could probably take out another forest near Perso. Considering it, except there's nothing interesting to build.
As advised, I grab calendar from the big Mr. HC for Alpha and Iron Working.
Why can't I see MP12's score now? Damn patch. I want a mod to get the scoreboard back the way it was.
I cut science down to what, 50% and we're at -1gpt hoo boy...
I see a settler on the new island... now I'm feeling the pressure. My hands are shaking and I can hardly press the Enter key. I hope 40% science will hold up.

Turn 1 - 210AD

We're pathetic military-wise. No big deal.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/06-pathetic.jpg

Susa: Library -> Lighthouse

Gordium founded. Now we are making -1gpt at 40% science. Computer is unstable and a restart is in order.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/07-barelysurviving.jpg

Something's really wrong. Why is my scoreboard messed up and why isn't Mansa Musa's name and OUR name on the scores list?

Anyway, the turn continues...

There's an archer near Perso and I don't know what to do with 'em. Oh well, maybe ship em to Gordium. Moving galley and archer closer together now.
Archer near fog at end of our island moves to reveal more of the island.
Galley in Incan territory continues exploring left.
Three workers near Tarsus start road to sugar.
Worker near Susa starts on another road.

END TURN!

IBT: The invisible M&M's shows up and offers deer for wheat. I try to renegotiate for a happiness resource. Sadly he has none so I decline.
IBT: Taoism has been founded in a distant land.

Turn 2 - 220AD

I really want the old scoreboard back.
Worker near Perso starts on a farm next to river.
Galley explores left and reveals more American territory.

Turn 3 - 230AD

We are now at +1gpt at 40% sci. Phew.
Unpopped tribal village spotted. Dropping warrior on it now...

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/08.jpg
Not a good idea.

ALSO: You can also see my busted scoreboard. I need help. Any ideas?

EDIT: Whoops. I saw the post about 2 archers per city. Moving archer to Susa.

Workers near Susa finish road-building. I plan to ship one or two to Gordium, so I move one of them to the shore closer to the galley.

IBT: The warrior you saw in the above screenshot is dead from ONE barbarian warrior attack, despite being fortified in woods. What a fluke.

Turn 4 - 240AD

Our exploration of Ameri-Incan lands continue. I had Show Bare Map on except I pasted the pic of our galley and Atlanta where it was supposed to be.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/09.jpg

Shipping one worker from Susa to Gordium.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/10-shipping.jpg

Other Susa worker starts farm near Arbela.

IBT: Forest grows near Gordium. It's almost completely surrounded now.

Turn 5 - 250AD

We're up Alphabet on Roosevelt but he still refuses to give up his Monarchy. Mansa Musa has Monotheism and Code of Laws and we don't have any techs to give.
Exploration of Ameri-Incan lands continue. Unfortunately our galley ends its turn next to a barb galley. I'm crossing my fingers.

IBT: Our galley died.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/122.jpg

I'll continue playing my turns later.

Turn 6 - 260AD
Arbela: Granary -> Libary
More workers band together to build plantations.
Seeing as we need more navy, Bearfall switches from Great Library to Galley. I hope TGL gets built by someone else soon so we can enjoy the gold.
:hammer:

Turn 7 - 270AD
Perso: Hindu Temple -> Axeman
Our other galley drops off worker at Gordium. Worker starts on gold mine immediately.
:hammer:

Turn 8 - 280AD
Pyramids have been BIFAL.
:hammer:

Turn 9 - 290AD
Gordium's borders expand.
Incans are now on Hereditary Rule.
Mansa Musa has acquired Currency. We can pay him gold now. Not that we have enough of it. :)

IBT: Roosevelt asks for Alphabet for free. I tell him to buzz off. He will not trade his Monarchy for our Alphabet despite being an utterly fair 1 for 1 deal.

Turn 10 - 300AD
Perso: Axeman -> Hindu Monastery as we need the research...
Worker from Perso area has nothing to do, starts move to Arbela. There is a grassland tile next to it, we could use a cottage there.

This is how it looks like at 300AD...

Domestic Advisor
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/132.jpg

Global Map of Persia
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/141.jpg

Good luck to the next guy!

TODO:
See if Roosevelt will swap his Monarchy for Alphabet if we add a couple of coins?
Continue moving worker near Susa to grassland plot near Arbela for "cottage spam".

Happy New Year! Haha I think I messed up -- I got 2 units killed.
:band:

What version are we using?

Sorry Horse, 24/48 rule says I should take it and I'm 1.52 already, so sorry.
I played my turns with patch 1.09, so you (DeceasedHorse) can play this round, hopefully next round you have the new patch by then

Roster
MeteorPunch - up! (10 turns)
Munterpipe - on deck
goraemon
ThERat
DeceasedHorse - skipped until D2D 1.52
Robo Mike - just played

I vote to give Horse double turns when his turn rolls around.

:bump:

Happy new year! Now, did anyone order a skip..?

I played my turns last night, but couldn't post them. They'll be up in a couple hours I think.

161 300 Too bad our galley died. Change a few builds. We're a bit behind in tech
163 320 Metal Casting discovered, start on Currency.
165 340 get Monarchy and Code of Laws in trades for Metal Casting.
168 370 Look who's trying to settle our islands.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/MP12_09.JPG

I wasted some time thinking about how to block them from coming into our land: galley blockades, elaborate settler movements...forgot about simply canceling open borders. Next Player: cancel our open borders with America on your first turn (not other deals, just the open borders deal). This will kick them out of our land.

We have 2 settlers about to be built. The first city should be 1East of the horses on our main island, the second city should be 1NorthEast of the gems on the second island. We want to get the Gems connected ASAP for happiness. Make sure to bring an archer or two. We are running 50% scinece, so these will hurt us temporarily. Don't build anymore settlers for now.

Keep Bearfall building nothing but archers and keep the Great Library in the queue. It's kind of annoying, but we'll get some gold out of it. :)

Worker has replaced archer at "fog duty." We have plenty of workers.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/MP12_10.JPG

Roster
MeteorPunch - just played
Munterpipe - up
goraemon - on deck
ThERat
DeceasedHorse
Robo Mike

Just posting to let everyone know that v1.52 for the direct2drive version has been released (promptly this time!) so go ahead and put me back in the rotation.

Welcome back, should I say?

Haven't heard anything from Munterpipe for awhile...maybe he's vacationing? :D Please inform this thread when you need a skip.

Roster
MeteorPunch - just played
Munterpipe - skip
goraemon - up
ThERat - on deck
DeceasedHorse
Robo Mike

Hello all, I'll download and take a look at it tomorrow :) happy new year! gtg

Guys, my monitor is in bad shape right now, so feel free to withdraw me for the meantime until further notice (e.g. I get a new one).

Pressed for time so I'll just summarize what happened briefly:

I settled another city on our main continent, by the horses. 2nd settler is on the 2nd island by the gems but have not settled yet. Can be settled as early as next turn unless you want to change locations.

I traded for a couple happiness/health resources. Arbela at its happiness limit so stunted growth. Workers are chopping some, improving resources. Researched currency w/in my turns but couldn't trade it for anything. Got started on compass but then mansa musa had it already in a few turns so switched to machinery. With some MM we might get it under 10 turns then hopefully trade for a few. Many cities are working on forges right now. City on 2nd island on courthouse being somewhat choprushed.

Might want to begin working on stuff like markets as well..but they'd take too long at this point.

Our empire at 500 BC:
109927
A couple weird things, though. I can't get the demographics screen to load on my computer with this file anymore:
109928
And Huayna Capac won't talk to us even though we're not at war:
109929
:confused: We're still 1st in score but are getting outteched atm. I didn't focus on military during this turnset.

Savegame:
109930

Save doesn't work.

Can't really make comments until the save is posted, but I'd wait until the Gems/jungle is chopped to settle.

I don't think we should be researching Machinery now, but I don't know what else we have available. Maybe it's all there is.

Bearfall is building the Great Library again? It's supposed to be building archers until we have 2 per city.

Roster
MeteorPunch
Munterpipe
goraemon - just played
ThERat - up!
DeceasedHorse - on deck
Robo Mike - skip

Hmm, just was able to load my save so not sure what the problem is, 2nd try:
110055

ok, got it now, will make sure we have 2 archers per town

goraemon, I don't know what happened to your save, but when I try to load it, my Civ4 crashes.
Maybe someone else can try and load and check whether that is true.

I resaved the save (:crazyeye:) to see if it would work for you. If this doesn't work, I'll play a turn, then resave.

Suggested changes:

change Persepolis to Marketplace.
change Bearfall to Archers.
change Machinery to Civil Service (we need Irrigation spread). Beauracracy might be good for us too.
MM Susa to work the mined hill.
MM Arbela to work the cottage.
change Tarsus to Forge

thanks MP, will play late tonight then

save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/MP12_AD-0600.Civ4SavedGame)

Pre-Turn
go for growth now since we aren't at the happy limit
change research to civil service

1. 510AD
forest chop will speed court in Gordium

2. 520AD
zzz

3. 530AD
ship 2 more workers to the other Island, we can always bring them back

4. 540AD
Bearfall finished an archer, swap to immortal to take on that archer on goody hut

5. 550AD
Persepolis get lighthouse, now for market, growth emphasized

6. 560AD
Gordium has a court, going for library next

7. 570AD
our financial situation is much better now making -9gpt at 60% science

8. 580AD
Arbela finishes forge, now can grow again (it is running 2 scientists by the way)
set to court

9. 590AD
income somehow back to -15gpt again

10. 600AD
America wants to sneak in a settler on the northern Island, suggest we need to settle ours either now or next turn
we do have an archer and immortal being sent over next turn
civil service is due in 5, nobody has it so far, hopefully we can keep that position and trade

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/mp12600.jpg

I got it, I got it

Preturn: Everyone except Hunya Copec likes us. Civil Service due in five, but we are five techs down to Mansa Musa, the tech leader. Wake up a galley with an Immortal in it and drop said Immortal off on the northeastern island for temporary garrison duties.

Turn 1: Bearfall builds Immortal, starts another as it is the only one of our ‘core cities’ not occupied on infrastructure builds, it will serve as our military production center for the immediate future (I assume that we are not seriously pursuing the Great Library). Found Sidon in order to claim the Gems and block the American settler pair nearby; income drops to -23 gpt, but we still have enough in the bank to finish Civil Service.

Turn 2: Income back up to -16, possibly because of Pasagradae’s celebration of “We love the Despot day” which sounds like the greatest holiday ever.

T3: Not much goes down. I notice that we have an unclaimed fish resource south of Susa, so I add a fishing boat to the build queue there. Raise science to 80% @ -52 Gpt; this will cost us most of our treasury, but does get us Civil Service one turn faster. Let me know if this was a dumb move.

T4: Civil Service comes in, revolt to Bureucracy. Trade Civil Service to Roosevelt for Compass and Construction (we still had some beakers invested in Compass research). It is impossible to get machinery or philosophy from Mansa Musa; I have to settle for Theology and 170 gold. Start research on Machinary, because we already have beakers invested in it. Mansa Musa’s gold will fund our defeceit research for the time being.

T5: Anarchy ends, Persepolis is a marginally more productive city.

T6: Not much

T7: Homer is born in a far away land. D’oh! Forest Chop finishes the Library in Gordium next turn. The Americans found Chicago next to the Marble on the NE island.

T8: Barb archer shows up on the NE island. Gordium builds Library, starts Granary.

T9: Bearfall builds Immortal, starts another. Note that we are paying for unit support.

T10: Market finishes in Persepolis, helping to stem the bleeding from our treasury. Starts on Harbor, although if we want to spread Hinduism, we should definitely start pumping missionaries out-Persepolis can build them pretty rapidly. Tarsus Forge-> Courthouse. Bactra Granary-> Courthouse (chop assisted). So ends the year 700 AD.

didn't realize I was up. :blush:

got it tomorrow.

700 Persepolis starts on Hindu Missionaries.
710 We are the 3rd most powerful???
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/MP12_11.JPG

720
730 Great Library is built somewhere - no more MMing Bearfall.
740 Machinery discovered. We get 150 gold for progress on the Great Library.
750
760 We get a great scientist!
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/MP12_12.JPG

770
780 Scientist builds an Academy in Persepolis.
790
800

- I've spent a good amount of time on this turn attempting to map some strategies for victory. Since I am "running" this game I'm trying to be very involved, but I will be the first to say that these are just opinions - please feel free to agree/disagree/argue/whatever.

- keep Persepolis on Hindu Missionaries until all our cities are converted.
- Switch us to State Religion: Hindu when 2 more cities are converted. Now we have 3/9.
- Paper is due in 2 turns. See if we can get a decent deal for world maps, if not go for Optics next. If we can get maps, go for Drama. After these is Engineering.
- I made some basic guidelines for builds:
/Aquaduct: wait until needed (if city already has granary/harbor/grocer*)
/Bank: Persepolis only.
/Barracks: all cities.
/Courthouse: all cities except Persepolis, Bearfall, Pasargadae, Susa.
/Forge: all cities.
/Granary: all cities.
/Grocer: Persepolis only*.
/Harbor: after granary if needed (for health).
/Library: no more. We have this in 7/9 cities now.
/Marketplace: Persepolis only.
/Theatre: high population cities (unhappiness problems).
/University: Persepolis only.

some of these that are Persepolis only may change when/if their commerce increases.

- Here are paths for Irrigation:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/MP12_16.JPG

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/MP12_13.JPG

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/MP12_14.JPG

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/MP12_15.JPG

Roster
MeteorPunch - just played
Munterpipe - up!
goraemon - on deck
ThERat
DeceasedHorse
Robo Mike - skip

Munterpipe hasn't been on CFC in 5 days and we skipped his last turnset as well. goraemon is up.

Roster
MeteorPunch - just played
Munterpipe - out (contact us if you are still playing)
goraemon - up!
ThERat - on deck
DeceasedHorse
Robo Mike - skip

OK got it I'll take a look at it soon

Hmm, with this particular savegame, I am still unable to view the demographics screen (empty) and I don't know why. Somewhat...irritating :( Is it just me experiencing this glitch at this point?

Turn 0: We appear to be somewhat behind tech to Roosevelt and Mansa Musa. Can't assess precisely by how much, due to demographics screen blanking out on me..

MM a few cities. Arbela is over happy limit so I stunt growth and add another scientist specialist (Arbela was the only city having any specialists at all at that point so might as well add another).

I agree that the undeveloped cottage by Gordium needs to be destroyed to help spread irrigation. We aren't even using the gold mine because of food concerns there right now. Switch-build harbor in Bearfall @ 7 turns.

Nothing worthy of trading with anyone atm. Capac won't trade (besides he and Mansa (our soon-to-be close friend) are annoyed with each other anyway so..), and we don't have anything to trade with the other 2.

We're currently in bureaucracy civic but still in tribalism with its "low upkeep"..whenver it was that we changed to bureau we could've switched to slavery or something because it's no upkeep (as is we're paying 7 extra gold/turn right now for nothing). We also have caste system as an option but since we're currently not too big on specialists usage so slavery is prob better.

On the religion front, I find that switching from paganism to organized religion, despite its high upkeep, would be neutralized by the decrease in upkeep we get from slavery, and we get to build buildings 25% faster once the hindu missionaries pop out from capital and we're going to switch to hinduism soonish.

Overall, going to revolution for slavery + organized religion would increase civic costs by just 1 gold/turn (from 37 to 38) so I think it's worth it. So I revolt :p
111075

Going to move on to turn 1 now or later..:D I find that turn 0 for me is always the most agonizing and time-consuming.

{EDIT} I think I got to disagree with destroying the hamlet by Tarsus for spreading irrigation though. We are able to work all the tiles with the improvements we have there right now. Esp. with maybe a later windmill on the 1 mine Tarsus can work, and/or biology that city won't have any problems maximizing its growth.

We're currently in bureaucracy civic but still in tribalism with its "low upkeep"..whenver it was that we changed to bureau we could've switched to slavery or something because it's no upkeep (as is we're paying 7 extra gold/turn right now for nothing).Too bad we missed that earlier.

I think I got to disagree with destroying the hamlet by Tarsus for spreading irrigation though. We are able to work all the tiles with the improvements we have there right now. Esp. with maybe a later windmill on the 1 mine Tarsus can work, and/or biology that city won't have any problems maximizing its growth.By the time we have Biology we should be well on our way to victory. Missing the chance to irrigate 3 plains is not worth keeping 1 hamlet, imo.

Turn 1: Up research a bit to get Paper next turn. Worker management mostly, some chopping, some building cottages, some farms.

Turn 1 EOT : Paper comes in. Not thrilled with any of the tech choices atm, as the desirable ones are too expensive. I choose optics for now but plan to try and trade w/Mansa next turn.

Turn 2: Trade Paper+World Map+$110 gold to Mansa for Optics. Switch tech research to Engineering after some agonizing (13 turns@50% research). Ask Roosevelt to spare his World Map and he agrees. As a result we now see borders of a French empire:

111079

Missionary spreads Hinduism to Arbela. Bactra grows to size 5.

Turn 2 EOT: Susa builds harbor. Begin...ugh, barracks @ 8 turns. Sidon builds granary. Begin (choprushing) forge. Capital builds missionary and starts on caravel @ 3 turns. MM to make it 2 turns.

Turn 3: More worker actions. We should've built more workers early on I think, there are cities working unimproved tiles. 9 cities to 8 workers is really a bit of a tight ratio.

Turn 4: Missionary spreads Hinduism in Susa. Gordium's borders expand so I can begin building farm and spread irrigation. Workers get to it, aside from other tasks.

Turn 4 EOT: Capital builds Caravel. Begin missionary.

Turn 5: Send out caravel west and I convert to Hinduism at this time.

Turn 6: Mansa Musa is the 1st to circumnavigate the globe. Caravel meets Julius Caesar:

111081

He doesn't even have Alphabet and has like 30 gold. Open borders.

Turn 6 EOT: Gordium finishes forge and starts harbor.

Turn 7: :hammer:

Turn 7 EOT: Gordium choprushes harbor. Begin market. Tarsus finishes courthouse, begin harbor.

Turn 8: :hammer: See that Mansa Musa picked up Music.

Turn 8 EOT: Bearfall completes harbor, continue w/forge.

Turn 9: Capital keeps churning out missionaries and more worker actions. Bactra grows to 6. Trade excess cow to Caesar for 3 gold/turn. See that Mansa Musa picked up Engineering as well, crap.

Turn 9 EOT: Another missionary from Capital. Temp break in action to build harbor @ 3 turns as all cities on this continent will be converted.

Turn 10: Spread Hinduism at Pasargdae. Move just-built missionary towards Bearfall. Tarsus grows to 8. Btw Caravel keeps exploring westwards and should meet up with the French in a few. Roosevelt is now willing to trade Music for Paper + hundredsomething gold. That'd basically deplete our treasury and I leave the option to the next player.

Mansa Musa will take off and leave everyone in the dust technologically if something's not done sooner or later. Atm he's "friendly" to us but we have no techs to trade with him (still 6 turns from Engineering @50% which he already has now) so it's a delicate situation. It's really irking me to not be able to view the demographics screen; we're #1 in score so I assume we have the land mass and/or population advantage, in which case we should keep improving our land/infrastructure (we really need more cottages developed and just enough farms to work them all - taking into consideration future windmills and biology too) to try and play catchup but can someone access the demographics and see where we are at all areas, maybe post a screenshot?

111085

Too bad we missed that earlier.

By the time we have Biology we should be well on our way to victory. Missing the chance to irrigate 3 plains is not worth keeping 1 hamlet, imo.

We don't need biology. That city can still work all tiles even without replacing the 1 mine with windmill. Irrigating the plains gains us nothing but +1 food. I'd say go the cottage route on those. Last time I checked it's not necessary to go through Tarsus to ensure other cities are properly chain-irrigated.

save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/MP12_AD-1000.Civ4SavedGame)

Pre-Turn
well, I can't see the demographics either, very frustrating
send out immortal in the north to try and get that goody hut
I actually think we could found one mroe city on our own continent later
increase science to 70% to get engineering in 4. It often pays to speed up research for trading value

1. 910AD
Roosevelt think we can just give him paper, sorry folk
Susa finishes rax and goes for a mcae, we need more military for sure
we cleared another forest at Persepolis and speed up harbor

2. 920AD
more infra finishes and we improve income
Persepolis goes for aqueduct and then maybe Hanging Gardens

3. 930AD
Rossevelt just got HBR, good that he did not go for engineering so we can trade next turn
we finally meet Louis
we got a -6 modifier already, trade him gems to improve relations, but not too sure about that

attack archer, lose immortal, archer finishes job but the hut is hostile :eek:
we win against both warriors, at least Roosevelt didn't get those goodies
Caesar demands alphabet, well, I give in to improve relations, we can't afford everyone against us
now he would trade his ivory, not too shabby

4. 940AD
what? Roosevelt seems to have engineering now and nobody wants to trade a thing

5. 950AD
we might as well trade with Roosevelt now before he gets paper as well
give it to him for HBR 250gold and his WM
this reveals the Chinese a bit further from our caravel
sell our WM to Mansa for 30gold

6. 960AD
zzz

7. 970AD
getting closer to China
Caesar has feudalism and we are up so many techs on him, but he refuses to trade

8. 980AD
increase our science to 80% at -32gpt, but speeding up PP to 9 turns
we get good news as Caesar declares on Mansa Musa, should we help him with some iron?
will wait for next turn to cancel our deal first then renegotiate
we meet Mao, first everything is redish, then trade him our WM for 10gold and he is immedately in a better mood

trade machinery and compass for drama and music
also change gold for incense :dance:

now the only techs the AI is up are feudalism (Roosevelt + Caesar) and Philo (Mansa)

9. 990AD
cancel deal with Caesar (cow for 3gpt)
then give him iron and he gives us ivory + 4gpt

10. 1000AD
the Hanging Gardens are done in another 10, if we won't get it, we get at least good money for our deficit research
PP is due in 7 and will give us a nice bonus.
hopefully we can use it to trade

we are also currently building 2 more courts so we can build the FP

let's hope the war slows those 2 AI's down a lot

the victory screen since I also can't load the demographics
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/mp121000.jpg

That's a great stroke of luck that Caesar declared on Mansa Musa; trading him iron was the right move I think; let's just hope the war lasts a long time in a stalemate :p Also trading opportunities arose which is a relief.

I'm really sorry guys. Had a lot of things going on last week, so I couldn't check in:blush: . I'll keep a closer look from now on though, so I'll definately catch the save after your next turn MP, if that's all right.

is this game dead?

Roster
MeteorPunch - up
Munterpipe - on deck
goraemon
ThERat
DeceasedHorse - skipped since no got it for many days

Robo Mike - withdrew

is this game dead?I don't care either way. There's been a lack of participation at times, so I rather it die now than die later. Its hard to make an effort thinking this way. I'd like to have at least 4 committed players.

Got it.

is this game dead?okay now it's dead.:nuke:

I'm sorry to say (especially to Rat) that I have no more interest in Civ 4. Totally gone and out the window. I'm not gonna be doing Gotm or RBC anymore, but I will finish Meth01 with just a couple easy turnsets left. I started playing WoW 2 weeks ago and I'm hooked. I don't have the desire to trudge forwards in this game.

Sorry again, MP. (continue if you want)

Ok MP. Happy wowing. How about you other guys? Do you want to continue this? If there's interest, I'll post the next turn tomorrow. We could probably use another player as well.

in my mind we need to clearly define the goal of this game and then find 1/2 more players, else it's a little tough without the initial starter of the game.

I agree. It's probably much easier to start a new SG than resurrecting a dead one:satan:

bit of a bummer because we were winning as far as i'm concerned. If the turnset comes back to me somehow I'd keep on playing; if not, good playing with the rest of you all sans the quitter.

the problems with SG's is that you need to have people who are committed for the course of the whole game. That's sometimes not easy. I understand if poeple drop for technical reasons or maybe RL is just too crazy.
But with Civ4, we also have an influx or many new players and time will tell, who is reliable. Some are not and you simply need to avoid them.

MP has had a motivation problem with Civ3 already and has it now again...not so good...

So, I prefer to stop this and rather play other proper SG's.

MP has had a motivation problem with Civ3 already and has it now again...not so good...



Not to be confused with this MP :)

If you guys are still in then I'm in. I didn't express well that I wanted 4 players (which is all we've got, tops). No one responded when I oringinally said this, so I thought no one cared.

I think the game is going well and could be won. Seems stupid to have to ask who wants to continue now - I'm in if you all are and I'm sure Rat is. If so I'll play.

EDIT: but yes I am finicky and addicted to WoW, but I can manage.

Not that it matters much, but there is at least one lurker here...

Yeah, come on, guys! You aren't doing too badly, and the game just got interesting for us lurkers.

I'm in for sure MP:). Who is doing the next turnset?

MP is up (Meteor), let's rock this game then

:goodjob: wohoo

:bump: okay off page 2 now...:)

1000 sign Open Borders with China...may help GPT a bit. I take Persepolis off the Hanging Gardens and put it on Heroic Epic.
1005 start on some catapults. We need to start building military in cities with nothing better to build.
1010
1015
1020
1025
1030
1035 Printing Press is discovered. This will be a huge economic boost. Islam is founded in Philadelphia, city of freedom. :rolleyes:
1040
1045
1050

- 6th courthouse will be built in 3 turns, then start the Forbidden Palace in Tarsus.
- after Education, start a University in Persepolis.
- Persepolis should stay on Catapults and keep the Hanging Gardens in the queue.
- also after Education, see if we can get a nice deal for Philosophy, otherwise we may want to research it, then go for Liberalism. Otherwise, we need to go for Guilds to get started towards cannons.
- I don't know why the demographics aren't working for some of you, but here they are. First is from the start of my turns (1000AD), the next is from my last (1050AD). Notice the big jump in GNP because of the Printing Press. I think we're doing pretty good and could be a shoo-in for Space...but this is war. :ar15:

1000
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/MP12_17.JPG

1050
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/MP12_19.JPG

got it, but I can't play until tomorrow

0: We got ourselves a good lead in score and tech. We are a bit behind millitary, so I'll try to do something about that.
Rude Roosevelt has put Chicago on our Island. Maybe we should go culture war against it and convert i t to us? There is also room for another city on that island.
We also have room for a fishing village here:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=112859&stc=1&d=1137979972
and perhaps we should place a city here?
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=112860&stc=1&d=1137979972
Concerning relations, we are ok. Huyana doesn't like us much, but Mansa Musa loves us. There Seems to be two teams here, the Buddhists against the Hindus. The Buds are perhaps strongest combined, so we should do something to split them up a bit before we go to war at least. (if we want to do that) Let's watch our back from Huana Capac, as he is quite unreliable. Our defence isn't much at the moment. I trade Feudalism with J.C. for Music and Drama.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=112861&stc=1&d=1137979972
1: Mansa wants us to declare war on J.C. At the time being we are not ready for that. two praetorians could take northeast Island as of now. They would certainly come for us first as we are placed between the two warring empires. Mansa is still friendly after I reject him.
Tarsus: catapult->longbowman
Persopolis: catapult->maceman

2: Bearfall galley-> Longbowman
Arbela aquaduct -> War Elehant
Persopolis Maceman->crossbowman

and the domographs doesn't work for me either.

3: Susa starts galley after courthouse
Tarsus starts the forbidden palace

adopt Theocrazy ;) and Vassalage

4: Anarchy over, Mansa steals fishing village on Tundra Island
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=112862&stc=1&d=1137979972
5: Sidon forge-> Library
Susa Galley-> Catapult
Perso xbow->maceman

6: J.C wants us to declare war on Mansa Musa. hmmph!:lol:
no way

7: Perso starts on another maceman

8: Bearfall Longbowman-> galley

9: Arbela War Elephant-Settler
He is for the fishing village SE. Totally vetoable of course as I am unsure

10: An Army is forming in Bearfall but I am not quite sure what to do with it. If we want to make war on J.C. we should stop supplying him with Iron.

the save
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=112863&stc=1&d=1137979972

Oh, I'm up? :eek:

Yeah baby. That's right

:goodjob:

Take a look at it pronto.

Hmm it seems from my initial scouting that we won't easily cross over to Caesar's main continent via galleys alone, and probably vice versa? In that case we probably won't be actively warring against him shortly..so I guess the question atm is whether to focus primarily on infra or military.

City that Roosevelt got on our island is pretty nice, with flood plains and seafood resource. I'm tempted to war against him at the cost of hurting our relations with Mansa a bit. I mean he's pretty far away from us so I doubt he'll be able to mount an effective counterattack quickly enough. I don't know, thoughts?

I'm pretty blank too. If we plant a city south of the american and build a lot of theatres and stuff, we could take it culturally as well without maybe hurting relations to much. Culture bomb maybe?

That's an option too although I don't know when we're going to get a great artist. Trying to keep both options open..

Basically going to write up a brief synopsis of what happened during my turns..

At my pre-turn Caesar suddenly cancels his ivory for iron resource trade out of the blue, he doesn't like us enough any longer (he and his praetorians out of their minds?:o), so I just give him cow for 5 gpt instead :p

Going to move some military to the other island just in case and focus on that for the most part

Capital had hanging gardens queued after the Maceman so I just leave it

Somewhere around my turn 2 or so Mansa Musa makes peace with Caesar!

Also we got Education comes in and I went for Gunpowder and we're 1 turn away from it at the end of my turns

We got Great Scientist in Arbela, built academy there because it has the highest beaker amongst cities without academy

Arbela also built Settler and I founded Tyre on the SE corner of our main continent, I choprushed a work boat and just waiting for the borders to expand

Roosevelt apparently settled another city on the tundra island right by Mansa Musa

Hanging Gardens will also be built soon, happiness doesn't seem to be a big issue atm

I moved a bunch of units to the island and as of now we could take Roosevelt's city if we wanted to, but I haven't declared war.

We could trade printing press (or education but want to hold on that one for a bit) w/Mansa Musa for guilds or philosophy plus a bunch of money but I haven't pulled the trigger yet, up to next player to decide.

113012
113013

got it, what are our plans for the future? We said we want to conquer the world so we need to start somewhere.

We've played much of the game without a clear plan. Are we trying to win on conquest? If we do, we should start conquesting soon. I think taking out Rome would benefit us the most since it gives us a lot of nice close cities to our capital. Also we won't get in trouble from Lois since he doesn't know J.C.
Attacking Huyana, or Roosevelt might get us the whole Buddhist branch on our backs. Can we handle that?

save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/MP12_AD-1200.Civ4SavedGame)

Pre-Turn
first attempt to open the game ends in a CTD
2nd attempt succeeds however
since I can't check the demographics, I have to guess how well we do
research at 70% at some deficit

Mansa Theodore and Mao seems to be positive about us whereas the rest isn't
get guilds and 580gold for PP
increase research we would like to get liberalism first

I think we get too many good resources to attack Roosevelt

IT get gunpowder

1.1155AD
in order to go for liberalism need to get philo which I get in exchange for gunpowder
go for 100% research with big deficit but liberalism down to 6 turns

our civics ain't that great, heriditary rule would help us for happiness especially after the HG
go for it and bureaucracy

IT as a first sign of an impending war Caesar cancels open borders

2. 1160AD
nothing much but will bring back the stack to our mainland so we can eventually invade Caesar

3. 1165AD
we get Hanaging Gardens

4. 1170AD
slowly get back our units, with 1 galley that's really a yawn process
recuce science to 90%, liberalism still in 4

5. 1175AD
Mansa now has banking and divine rights over us and somehow aquired education

6. 1180AD
we get the FP that improves our financial situation a lot
reduce science to 80% at -32gpt

7. 1185AD
Gordium finished theater as part of a culture push in the north

IT we get liberalims and can select a free tech, chose chemistry since nobody else has that yet

8. 1190AD
Roosevelt does not want to trade astronomy, but he has divine rights
get it plus 350gold for PP

go for sci methods since biology would be huge for us

9. 1195AD
zzz

10. 1200AD
sci methods in 9, but we need astronomy to think about fighting Caesar
we have some units now in the west next to our capital and Bearfall

Mansu would trade banking but the deal wouldn't be in our favor at all, better wait for more techs to show up