Fall from Heaven
Version 1.0

Download here: Fall from Heaven 1.00g (http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=1029) (123 MB, updated 12/16/2006)

This Mod requires Civilization 4 patch 1.61 to play. Save games will not work between versions.

Fall from Heaven is a Fantasy based mod that brings more focus on the Religion and Promotion aspects of Civilization 4. Toward that end there are unique religion units, increased XP, unit upgrades that last throughout the entire game (a Scout can be upgraded to a Hunter, then to an Assassin, then to a Shadow). Promotions have had their effect increased and many new promotions have been added. The Tech Tree, Units, Religions, Buildings and Civics have all been rebuilt from the ground up.

Spells have been added to the game including Cure Disease (Removes the Diseased and Plagued negative promotions that spread in the game), Fireball, Bless (gives the units a moderate strength increase until their next battle), Vialize the land (upgrades the terrain) and the ability to Summon Fire Elementals and Demons.

Enjoy the Mod, and I invite feedback so that I can make it better. Please feel free to respond in this thread or Private PM me on www.civfanatics.com or www.octopusoverlords.com. My name is Kael on both forums.

- Kael


Major Contributors:

Woodelf- Ideas and Playtesting (facing the bugs of FFH so you don't have to)
Loki- Coming up with more good ideas than I could implement in a lifetime.
C.Roland- Amazing art on tons of unit skins and buildings.
Chalid- Idea, design and art for the system that changes the cities to reflect the state religion.
Corlindale- Tech quotes.
Wilboman- Unit pedia entries.
Haarbal- Made a set of excellent Fantasy Civilizations for this mod.


Version History:

0.5 Released Friday December 16th, 2005. 959 Downloads.
0.6 Released Friday December 23rd, 2005. 2,119 Downloads.
0.7 Released Friday December 30th, 2005. 4,647 Downloads.
0.8 Released Friday January 13th, 2006. Lost count, 10,000+ downloads.
0.9 Released Friday January 27th, 2006.
0.95 Released Friday February 17th, 2006.
1.0 released Thursday April 13th, 2006.

My Favorite Post:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=3596926&postcount=1728


FAQ:

How do I load this mod?

Run the 'FallfromHeaven100.exe' file. It will default to the default path for the english install of Civ4. If you have it installed on a different location you will need to change it to your location.

The game crashes to the desktop when it is trying to load, whats wrong?

Civilization patch 1.61 is required to run this mod. If you don't have it you will have the error described. To get the 1.61 patch for Civ 4 select the advanced option on the main Menu and then choose the Updates option.

I get tons of XML errors when I try to load the mod, whats wrong?

Most likely you have some files in your CustomAssets directory that are conflicting with Fall from Heaven. To resolve this rename your CustomAssets directory (defaults to 'My Documents\My Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\CustomAssets') to 'CustomAssets.old'. The game will create a new empty CustomAssets the next time it loads.

Is there any strategy help available?

CurtisC has been good enough to offer some advice at the following location: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=164283

Is there a premade map for this mod?

Good Souce was good enough to make a pair of FfH specific maps that you can find here:

1.[tab]Fantasy Map by Good Sauce (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=165092)

2.[tab]FfH Fantasy Map 2 by Good Sauce (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=3917597#post3917597)

Starship also made an excellent scenerio based on the classic straetgy game Warlords that you can find here:

1.[tab]Battlefield Illuria by Starship (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=169223)

Why can't I select some of the civics like Arete, Sacrifice the Weak, Guardian of Nature, Social Order or Slavery?

Each of those Civics has a State religion requirement. The state religion that is required for each is:

Arete: Runes of Kilmorph
Sacrifice the Weak: The Ashen Veil
Guardian of Nature: Fellowship of Leaves
Social Order: The Order
Slavery: Octopus Overlords

I want to expore the wilderness longer but it disseapears to fast, is there anything I can do to fix that?

I usually play a few civs short of the normal map size. That means more wilderness to expore and the wilderness stays around a bit longer. We are hoping to address this in FfH2 by adding a Hell map that opens up midgame and adding some special wilderness areas that are more difficult to settle.

I decided to play for a little bit before I went to bed, then I noticed the sun was coming up. What happened?

Welcome to Civilization. If you buy your boss a copy of the game he might not notice when you come wandering into work half asleep.

We appreciate the mod, is there anything we can do to reimburse you for this work?

Just make sure you are actually paying for your copy of Civilization 4. The folks at Firaxis have created an amazing game that makes all this possible (and so much more, we are just at the tip of the iceberg). Make sure they get paid so they can continue to make more awesome games like this.

What was changed in this version?

Click the spoiler button to see everything that was changed in 1.0.

Change List for 1.0

Fixes:

*1. Errors when selecting a tech on the tech screen.
*2. Errors when attempting to change your state religion on the religious screen.
*3. Sometimes size 0 cities are produced when you are using the Conquest civic.
*4. CTD caused by taking a city with the conquest civic.
*5. CTD caused by the Order spreading to a city and attempting to create a Disciple of the Order (which no longer exists).
*6. CTD caused by building a new building in a city that contains a Temple of the Veil (if the temple is displayed at 90 degrees).
*7. CTD caused by a barbarian unit with the Immortal promotion dying (he has no capital to return to).
*8. Buildings can now give negative commerce values.
*9. Rangers, Druids and Beastmasters can board ships. (reported by Furin, I had to take away their ability to cross peaks to fix this)
*10. Expansive and Philosophical traits now correctly pay upkeeps for their associated civic categories.
*11. Fixed an error with an incorrectly linked Order song. (reported by Kevjm)
*12. Spells are no longer selected automatically after they were cast, it was causing problems in multiplayer games.
*13. Removed any use of the random function, it was causing Out of Sync errors in multiplayer games.
*14. Fireballs from Arcane Barges don't start fortified. (reported by Chalid)
*15. Werewolves no longer turn fireballs into wereflamers. (reported by Xuenay)

Additions:

*1. Added the Arcane Barge (ship that can fireball and carry 1 land unit).
*2. Added the Marksman promotion (units with this promotion attack the weakest unit in a stack instead of the strongest).


Balance Changes:

*1. The Drown can travel through Coast tiles.
*2. Fireballs and Meteors can now travel on Land and Sea.
*3. Animals aren't deleted when barbarians appear.
*4. Crusaders aren't generated when a city is lost to unrest.
*5. Spell combat ends instantly.
*6. Humanism civic reduced from High to Medium Upkeep.
*7. Great Lighthouse increased from 200 to 600 cost. (recommended by The Bramble)
*8. Apocalypse increased from 500 to 5000 cost. (recommended by Lunargent)
*9. Ancient Temple no longer gives a negative food amount.
*10. The Drown cost raised from 60 to 90.
*11. All Domain Sea units were made immune to disease. (since right now you can't cast cure disease on them)
*12. Captured Lion, Wolf, Tiger and Panther need a Carnival before they can build pens in a city. (reported by Webrider)
*13. Gate to the Abyss removed.
*14. Conjurers and Mages reduced from 4 to 3 strength.
*15. Archmages and Demon Summoners reduced from 7 to 4 strength.
*16. Only living units will recieve the Immortal promotion from Blood of the Phoenix.
*17. The AI will no longer use Mages and Adepts as collateral damage units.
*18. Galleon cargo increased from 3 to 4. (recommended by Miracle)
*19. Galleon speed decreased from 4 to 3. (recommended by Miracle)
*20. Galleon cost increased from 80 to 110. (recommended by Miracle)
*21. Privateer speed increased from 3 to 4. (recommended by Miracle)
*22. Privateer given a 25% withdrawal rate. (recommended by Miracle)
*23. Queen of the Line cargo decreased from 7 to 6. (recommended by Miracle)
*24. Lumbermill changed from +1 Gold to +2 Gold when beside a river. (recommended by Loki)
*25. The Great Commanders recruit ability now grants 4-6 recruits.
*26. Ravenous Werewolf strength lowered from 5 to 4 and given the Enraged promotion. (recommended by Aljayboy)
*27. Fireballs and Meteors are now Amphibious. (recommended by Belizan)
*28. Haste doesn't work on spells. (recommended by Belizan)
*29. Rosier the Fallen made immune to disease.
*30. Great Person Threshold Increase changed from 50 to 100.
*31. Added a chance to frist strike to the Commando promotion. (recommend by Loki)
*32. Replaced Kael Coalbane with Mardero. (Model created by White Rabbit)
*33. Replaced Maros with Sphener. (Model created by White Rabbit)
*34. Yggdrasil now gives +4 Culture instead of +4% culture. (recommended by TheJopa)
*35. Herbalist given a +10% to heal rate for units in that city. (recommended by TheJopa)
*36. Eidolon and Stygian Guard Medic1 promotions switched to March. (recommended by TheJopa)
*37. Arete gives 10% free units by population instead of 20% free military units by population. (recommended by naf4ever)
*38. Military State gives 20% free units by population instead of 20% free military units by population. (recommended by naf4ever)
*39. Republic Civic % Anger reduced from 400 to 100, culture boost increased from 10 to 20%.
*40. Military discipline now goves -25% War Weariness. (recommended by naf4ever)
*41. Dungeons War Weariness increased from -25% to -50%. (recommended by naf4ever)
*42. Liberty now gives +2 free specialists.
*43. Removed duplicate animals.
*44. Halved production costs on Carnivals for Creative leaders. (recommended by CurtisC)
*45. Blocked AI from building barracks if they dont have copper.
*46. Remove building hapiness interactions. (TheJopa reported they weren't working as intended)
*47. Stables now require Horses.
*48. It only costs 130 gold to upgrade a slave to a lunatic instead of 250. (recommended by naf4ever)
*49. The Seafaring trait now grants the amphibious promotion to melee units. (recommended by Kevjm)
*50. Added the Marksman ability to the Marksman unit, lowered its strength from 12 to 10, lowered its first striked from 2 to 1 and removed the Blitz promotion.


Cosmetic:

*1. Horseman picture in the build bar is no longer an Immortal. (reported by AljayBoy)
*2. Cleaned up some tech quotes (recommended by erikg88)
*3. New Beast of Agares button icon.
*4. New building model for the Carnival. (created by C.Roland)
*5. New art for the Avatar of Wrath. (created by C.Roland)
*6. New building skin for Tower of Eyes and Archery Range. (created by C.Roland)
*7. Added the list of the allowed and disallowed objects for each religion on the religion pedia entry.
*8. Spell descriptions added for a lot of the promotions. (ability to put descriptions on promotions added by Talchas)
*9. T4 units now have the city name added to their name when built "Paladin of Thariss". (recommended by Chalid)
*10. New models for the Dwarven Soldier, Stygian Guard, Ravenous Werewolf, Blooded Werewolf and Greater Werewolf. (created by Rabbit, White)
*11. Seafaring tech is given as a free tech instead of as part of the Seafaring trait. (allowed me to simplify some code)
*12. FfH specific hints added. (written by Miracle)
*13. French translation provided by Jean Francois.
Are there any known bugs in 1.0?

[tab]1. Player controlled animals are now able to enter player lands (reported by kevjm).
[tab]2. Foreign languages now work correctly (reported by Agifem).
[tab]3. The Seafaring tech is now correctly given to civs with the Seafaring trait (reported by kevjm).
[tab]4. Werewolves correctly generate new werewolves (reported by Nikis-Knight).
[tab]5. Seafaring text key tag now decodes correctly, and several other text updates.
[tab]6. Mathematics now gives a +50% bonus on forest chops like in vanilla civ (reported by naf4ever).
[tab]7. Ancient temples don't have a negative food effect (reported by Sir Gallroy).
[tab]8. Werewolves don't get a worker and a werewolf anymore (reported by ghostbearkhan).
[tab]9. Expansive trait give +3 instead of +2 health (reported by Xuenay).
[tab]10. The Drown are no longer able to cross peaks.
[tab]11. Units on boats will no longer defend.
[tab]12. Slaver civilizations won't get a slave and a worker anymore.
[tab]13. Fixed a CTD caused by the Temple of the Veil building graphics in cities with lots of buildings (reported by evanb).
[tab]14. Carnivals can now be built on islands (reported by Furin).
[tab]15. Orthus will not be created if he already exists (for Battlefield Illuria).
[tab]16. Game Option added to disable settlers (for Battlefield Illuria).
[tab]17. MapChecker 3.1 (tm) garuntees that every randomly generated map has at least 3 or each of the following resources: mithril, reagents, incense, iron, gunpowder and copper.

Download here: http://kael.civfanatics.net/files/FfH100f.exe

Changes in the next version:

[tab]1. Dwarves can learn the Guerilla II promotion (recommended by Chammadai).
[tab]2. Rebalanced the leader traits (recommended by Chammadai).

The picture contains a Priest of the Leaves (with the leaf halo), Shadow (half-invisible panther guy), Hill Giant, Iron Golem, Diseased Corpse (selected unit), Demon (big black guy with the fire aura), Eidolon (undead unit with gold armor), and a Disciple of the Overlords (back in the trees). There are more custom art units in the mod than this, I just wanted to give a sampling of some of what was made (and lets face it, the Earth Elemental looks like something that should be swirling around a toilet bowl).

Promotions:

+Accuracy- +20% city bombard damage
+Amphibious- No combat penalty if attacking from sea or across a river.
+Barrage I- +40% collateral damage
+Barrage II- +60% collateral damage, +20% vs melee units
+Barrage III- +100% collateral damage
+Blessed- +15% combat, +15 vs demons, Removed after combat
+Blitz- Can attack multiple times per turn
+City Garrison I- +40% to city defense
+City Garrison II- +50% to city defense
+City Garrison III- +60% to city defense, +20% vs melee units
+City Raider I- +40% city attack
+City Raider II- +50% city attack
+City Raider III- +60% city attack, +20% vs melee units
+Combat I- +20% strength
+Combat II- +20% strength
+Combat III- +20% strength
+Combat IV- +20% strength, heals an additional 10% /turn in neutral lands
+Combat V- +20% strength, heals an additional 10% /turn in enemy lands
+Command- 50% chance to take control of units defeated in combat
+Commando- Can use enemy roads
+Cover I- +40% vs archery units
+Cover II- +80% vs archery units
+Crazed- 50% chance of being enraged each turn
+Defensive- +40% Defense, -40% Attack
+Demon Slaying- +40% vs Demons
+Diseased- -30% Strength, -10% Heal, -10% Heal to units in the same tile, Combat has a 50% chance to spread Disease to each unit in the attacking and defending stack.
+Drill I- 1 additional first strike chance
+Drill II- 1 extra first strike
+Drill III- +2 first strike chances
+Drill IV- 2 first strikes, +20% vs mounted units
+Dwarf Slaying- +40% vs Dwarves
+Elf Slaying- +40% vs Elves
+Enraged- +40% Attack, -40% Defense
+Fire Resistance- +80% vs Fire
+Flanking I- +20% withdrawal
+Flanking II- +20% withdrawal
+Flanking III- +10% withdrawal, immune to first strikes
+Formation I- +40% vs mounted units
+Formation II- +80% vs mounted units
+Giant Slaying- +40% vs Giants
+Guerilla I- +40% hills defense
+Guerilla II- Double movement in hills, +60% hills defense
+Immortal- When the unit dies it is reborn in the civilizations capital. A unit can only be reborn once per turn.
+Magic Resistance- +40% vs Adepts and Fire, Half chance to be Entangled, Half damage from Fire Aura
+March- Can heal while moving
+Medic I- Heals units in the same tile +20% damage per turn
+Medic II- Heals units in the same tile +40% damage per turn
+Medic III- Heals units in the same tile +80% damage per turn
+Mobility I- +1 movement range
+Mobility II- +1 movement range
+Mobility III- +1 movement range
+Navigation I- +1 movement range
+Navigation II- +1 movement range
+Orthus’s Axe- +25% Combat, Allows Blitzing, Passed to units that defeat this unit
+Plague Carrier- Spreads the Plague, -20% Heal to units in the same tile
+Plagued- -60% Strength, -20% Heal, -20% Heal to units in the same tile
+Quality Armor- +10% Combat
+Quality Weapons- +10% Combat
+Sentry I- +1 visibility range
+Sentry II- +1 visibility range
+Sentry III- +1 visibility range
+Shock I- +40% vs melee units
+Shock II- +80% vs melee units
+Spell Extension I- Spells cast have an additional point of movement
+Spell Extension II- Spells cast have an additional point of movement
+Spell Extension III- Spells cast have an additional point of movement
+Subdue Animal- Allows the units to convert defeated animal units.
+Summoned- A Summoned unit is automatically killed at the beginning of the owning players next turn
Twincast- Character can cast 2 spells per turn
+Woodsman I- +40% jungle defense, +40% forest defense
+Woodsman II- Double movement in jungle and forest, +60% jungle and forest defense

Religions:

The Ashen Veil: Mages spent weeks in meditation, exploring the farthest reaches of the ethereal world. The demands of the body were ignored, and they survived sustained only by magic. Their efforts were rewarded, a sentience was contacted, dark and horrible. It whispered secrets into the mages minds, necromancy, diseases, sacrifical rites. It promised power in exchange for their blood, and they freely gave it.

Runes of Kilmorph: Kilmorph is the goddess of the earth, she who dwells beneath. She formed children out of stone, the Dwarves, and taught them the secrets of metalworking. One of the first religions available to the men of the world Kilmorph will answer the prayers of men and even send her soldiers to defend their cities.

The Order: Junil, the elder of the Gods, had promised to stay apart from the conflict on Earth. No one knows why he decided to change that, some say it was to combat the influence of the Ashen Veil, others that it was jealousy. Regardless of his reason he promised salvation to the least of men and asked only one thing in return, their obedience.

Fellowship of Leaves: Deep in the woods the whispers of Elves linger. Ancient protectors uninvolved in the affairs of men some men have proven enough loyalty to them to learn their magic and even gain the assistance of the Elven Archers.

Octopus Overlords: The power beneath the Aegean waves is said to be more powerful than any other, but the Overlords are unfocused and follow a thousand different obscure agendas. The Disciples of the Overlords dare not expose themselves directly to the conflicting commands of their masters and instead use the poor as intermediaries. They are quickly driven insane by the process which the disciples prefer as it keeps them from manipulating the message. They also share the process of turning a Warrior into The Drown, undead thralls, a process with few volunteers.

reservered for techs

reserved for buildings

Fall from Heaven 2

[tab]The Fall from Heaven 2 thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=171398).

Designer Journal:

Feb 15th:[tab]FfH2 is offically opened, the design team is invited and brainstorming begins. All of the FfH1 members return as well of 2 new faces; Talchas assumes the role of Lead Programer (he has already surpassed anything I could do) and Lunargent comes in to revamp the tech tree design (and while waiting for the tech requirements digs into all other aspects of design).

Lead Design:
[tab]Kael

Lead Programmer:
[tab]Talchas

Design Team:
[tab]Loki1232
[tab]Lunargent
[tab]Woodelf

Art Team:
[tab]C.Roland
[tab]Chalid (design and programming work as well)

Writing Team:
[tab]Wilboman
[tab]Corlindale

Special Mention:
[tab]Rabbit, White for providing 3d unit models and skins
[tab]SeZereth for providing 3d unit models and skins
[tab]Ploeperpengel for providing 3d unit models and skins
[tab]TheLopez for providing the Mercenaries Mod

Mar 2nd:[tab]The major concepts are broken into 4 manageable pieces and those pieces are assigned to different revisions of FfH2 (Light, Fire, Shadow and Ice) giving us our high level feature lists for each version. Work begins to focus on the details required for the first version, "Light" and the actual production of components required for this version (everything to this point has been design work and prototypes).

[tab]"Light"- Introducing Talchas's new spell system, Mana nodes and 16 new civilizations.

[tab]"Fire"- Introducing Hell, the Armageddon counters and the Infernal and Mercurian civilizations.

[tab]"Shadow"- Introducing Quests, Equipment and the Sidar, Svartalfar and Illian civilizations.

[tab]"Ice"- Introducing the FfH scenerios.

Mar 12th:[tab]The first alpha version of FfH2 is compiled and released to the team. It includes the basics of each of the new civs and the new spell system with all the FfH1 spells converted to be used by it. We still have a ton of work to do. The biggest part of which will be to create all of the new spells and UU's for the Civs.

Mar 30th:[tab]Still deep in adding new features to Light. The build list is long but the tools have made it pretty easy to add new stuff. Talchas's spell system is showing its muscle and there are currently 45 spells in and working, along with 156 units and 149 buildings.

[tab]It should be stressed that the point of FfH2 isn't to just give "more". In fact I think more is usually worse. But we want all of the civs to play differently. So the build lists won't be longer, but when you play the orcs you will have different units to work with then if you were playing one of the other civs. And each civ has been reviewed to give it a different style, strengths and weaknesses. So that playing the Calabim will be a dramatically different play experience than playing the Khazad, but playing any individual civ won't be any more complex than playing one of them today.

Apr 9th:[tab]Version 1.10c is released to the team. This version contains 165 buildings, 178 Units and 57 spells. Most importantly this version includes working mana resources. Mana nodes can be found in the world that can be improved to provide mana of any of the sphere types. The mana resources a city has available to it determines the starting spells of arcane units created in that city.

[tab]Upgrade only units are also introduced. You can no longer build an Immortal in any of your cities, instead you have to upgrade a Maceman of level 6 or greater into an Immortal. Likewise Mages, Archmages, Conjurers, Summoners and High Priests can't be built but require a unit with some experience to be upgraded to be created.

[tab]Spotlight on Corlindale (world unit): Corlindale is an Elohim hero and named after our very own writing team member. He is a pacifist and although he has no combat ability he is a powerful spellcaster with the hero promotion and the ability to learn the Earth, Mind and Spirit spheres up to rank 3 (the same rank as Archmages). Corlindale also has a unique ability called "Peacemaker", he can be sacrificed to end wars with all civs except the barbarian civ. Since he is a world unit Elohim players will only be able to do this once, but if used properly it could be a game saving effect (or nefarious players will grab tons of resources fast then use Corlindale to stop all the wars they just caused).

April 16th:[tab]Happy Easter! We ran into our first series of CTD crashes, got them all fixed and released version 1.10d. Version 1.10d also contains most of the advanced temples. Each religion has 2 advanced temples, once a civ builds one of the advanced temples it loses the ability to build the other in any of its cities. The advanced temples have a significant impact so choosing which to build will effect the flavor of that religion for that civilization and serve to differentiate 2 civilizations with the same religion from each other.

[tab]We also have a target date for the first very beta release of FfH2, May 19th! It will be much rougher around the edges than 1.0 is, so I would definitly recommend playing FfH1 even after the 19th if you want to play real games, but you will have FfH2 to check out and see what we have been doing as well.

[tab]Spotlight on the RuneVault and Halls of Granite (buildings): These are the two advanced temples for the Runes of Kilmorph. The Halls of Granite enforces the insular and defensive nature of the religion and offers a significant defense bonus and a moderate production bonus in exchange for less trade routes and a slightly reduced culture output. The RuneVault enforces the wise and traditional nature of the religion and increases the cities rate of receiving great prophets and gives a research bonus for every gems resource the city has access to. It also allows access to the Runeguard, a non-moveable undercosted defender, there can only be 1 Runeguard per RuneVault. The Runevault decreases production slightly.

April 24th:[tab]Version 1.10e went out to the design team today. Setting the release date already has me stressing about all of the stuff I want to get included before then, which is what release dates are supposed to do. We pulled all of the racial unitcombats out this week and added them as promotions. This makes an Elven Archer both an Elf and and Archer and units with bonus's against both will be doubly effective against it.

[tab]Spotlight on Summon Host of the Einherjar (spell): This spell summons the spirits of warriors that died in honorable battle. Although just, the Einherjar love nothing more than combat and won't return to their home plane as long as they win a combat every turn. This doesn't keep the caster from summoning another the following turn and the ghostly warriors can become overwhelming against weaker civs trying to get by with hordes of weak units.

April 30th:[tab]A rash of CTD's stalled testing (thanks again to the test team for providing all the saves and being patient). But we got them under control and things are running well now. Significant SDK changes are being rolled in, and we are prepping the Mod for the May 19th "beta" release. At this point I’m a little worried that we may have made so many changes that issues will be difficult to isolate. I’m eager to get more hands in the mod and get your guys feedback about any crashes or things that don’t work. Oh yes, there will be issues, if you want to play a nice stable game and not worry about losing everything to a CTD, keep playing 1.00.

[tab]Spotlight on Losha Valas (http://kael.civfanatics.net/images/Units/Losha.jpg) (Calabim Hero): Losha is the civ specific hero for the Calabim. She is a vampire and has all special abilities that Vampires gain such as:

1.[tab]The "Feast" ability allows a vampire to consume population to gain XP.
2.[tab]The "Feed" ability allows a vampire to kill a living unit in its stack to heal itself and gain a movement point, if this unit is a Bloodpet the vampire also regains the ability to attack.
3.[tab]A moderate bonus to strength and heal rate.
4.[tab]A vampire can pass vampirism on to a living unit in its stack that is level 6 or higher, or level 4 or higher if it is a Moroi. Note this allows you to create Vampiric Macemen, Vampiric Berserkers, Vampiric Archmages, just about anything you want.

[tab]In addition to these standard vampire powers Losha also gains the Immortality promotion every time she kills a living unit. As long as she is able to feed she is very difficult to kill.

May 5th:[tab]2 Weeks to beta release! We are faced with the awful realization that we have a lot of work left to do, and that we already did the fun stuff so the rest is real work ;) . I released 1.10f today. It added a bunch of elven units, and a handful of Malakim units, spells and 2 new wonders. There are currently 161 buildings and 222 units in FfH2, most of which are civ specific.

[tab]Spotlight on Talchas (team member): Talchas is the only member of the FfH2 team that was recruited. I did a lot of digging through the SDK, but early on I realized that the spell system I wanted for FfH2 was beyond my ability. Looking through the work of the other modders here I was most impressed with what Talchas had accomplished, at that point only with python. I asked if he would be willing to tackle a much more extensive spell system and he dug in and accomplished more than I ever hoped for.

[tab]Talchas’s spell system allows you to add spells and abilities to units based on just about anything you want. You can build all of the details of the requirements, results, visual effects and audio effects all with XML and python. Even better you can add the AI logic in python as well.

[tab]Of course it's still a work in progress but it is the cornerstone of the "Light" release and it covers a wide variety of abilities. As for specific implementation of the spells, they require the spell caster to have the appropriate "Spell sphere" promotions to be able to cast a spell. An arcane unit starts with spell spheres based on the mana resources he has access to (there are 15 different spheres in "Light"). There are a few ways to get mana resources; most civs start with one and mana nodes can be found and upgraded to whatever mana type the player prefers. There are also a few wonders that produce mana and they can of course be traded with other civs.

[tab]For example the Calabim start with Body mana. So their arcane units will start with the Body I promotion which gives them access to the Haste spell. If they come across a Mana Node and upgrade it to a Fire Mana Node their newly created arcane units will start with Body I and Fire I, giving them the ability to cast Haste and Scorch.

[tab]Arcane units can also learn new spheres when they level up regardless of the resources they have access to. So if our Mage with Body I and Fire I leveled up he could choose to learn Body II, Fire II or and of the other spheres at rank I. Each of which would give him access to different spells. So you build the spell caster you need.

May 12th:[tab]We are freezing code adds and just trying to fix and test to make sure next weeks release is as smooth as possible. The temptation to push it back "just one more week" is huge but we are going to hold the date. I ran into a bit of an unexpected problem, the editor is only designed to handle up to 255 different versions of each object type and we are currently at 239 units. 16 left and we will have to look at changing the editor around to handle more, not a huge issue but a pain.

[tab]Spotlight on Chalid (team member): The jack of all trades. Chalid creates amazing art, has been one of our biggest design contributors and has even produced SDK code improvements for FfH2. He is one of the rare people that can come up with an exciting concept, create the art and code in the changes all by himself.

[tab]Rather than describe it I will let Chalid's work speak for itself. Be sure to check out the attached pictures (admit it, you checked them all out before you even read this didn't you! :) ). All of the art in them was created by Chalid and it is only a sampling of the amazing art he has created for FfH2.

[tab]There is a lot to see in the pictures, but be sure to look at the Balseraph catapult, it is one of my favorites and even comes with the expected sound when it is used.

[tab]1 Week Left!

Hopefully I'm not grabbing a reserved spot, but this looks promising. I'll be interested to see how she plays. New stuff is always a welcome addition.

:goodjob:

Cool. I just looked at the new skins and those are awesome. The larger warrior works as a giant quite nicely. Hopefully you made use of the animals and made some nice fantasy spellbound creatures, like that tail-less beast on the left side of the unit pic.

indeed promising, will start playing when the link is up.

Are there new civs also ?

File is up and ready for download. No, there aren't any new Civ's. That is spec'ed for FfH2.

Still to come in FfH1:

1. Religion specific Techs and Civics
2. Root spell for Druids.
3. Fireball spell for Mages.
4. Inferno spell for Archmages.
5. “Marksman” ability which lets the attacker select the unit he wants to attack in the stack for Assassins, Shadows and Marksman.
6. The Defiler unit, who destroys opponents land.
7. The Elementalist unit, who is capable of summoning 4 different types of elementals.
8. Armageddon spells!
Apocalypse- Kills 50% of all units, destroys 50% of all buildings, halves city populations.
Bane Divine- All Disciple branch units are reduced to Prophets.
Blight- Destroys all food improvements, destroys 75% of all food bonus’s.
Celestial Realignment- Destorys all active Armageddon spells.
Doom Inexorable- Summons Meshabber of Dis (avatar unique unit)
Enslave the Earth- Creates the Mithril Golem (avatar unique unit)
Entropy Unbound- Slowly destroys the map.
Glory Everlasting- All Demon units are killed.
Knell of Darkness- Any living units that die within the owning players borders are raised as skeletons.
Open Gate- Randomly produces demon units.
9. Escape Spell for Saboteurs and Shadows.
10. The Drown can travel through coast tiles.
11. Haste Spell for Adepts.
12. The Infernal Grimoire will have a 25% chance of summoning a barbarian Demon close to the building city.


Coming in FfH2:

1. Attitude modifiers based on both parties religion (The Order hates civilizations that are following the Ashen Veil but is tolerant of those dedicated to the Runes of Kilmorph, etc).
2. Random Quests.
3. Scenarios, where the Fall from Heaven story will be told.
4. New Civilizations.
5. New Leaders.
6. Equipment.

Fantasy mods are fun anyway, so i'll dl and play this one for sure :p

Bloody hell. Bloody good work. Dunno what else to say.

I'm still downloading. Damn country dial-up! But I echo Stone-D. Until I get my grubby hands on it I'm speechless, well nearly. ;)

This could open up the floodgates to all sorts of new mods. Yippee.

I love how Cornholio (Beavis) is the image for No School System!

Aye am zee great CorNholIO! I need TP for my BUNGHOLE!

Yah, you basically just got me an F in all my classes... jerk! ;p

Do you have an ETA for Phase one? The stuff you have in there is simply... well... fricken mind boggling!

PS: Anyone else feel like becoming a groupie? :P

OK,I Just logged of the game after several hours of play (need some sleep):
Very Good Mod!
Only I had an issue with some wonders :
The Dragon horde & Altar of the Lunnoton didn't give the free promotion as they suppose to.
I hope you will fixed that in later pase.
Any way Thanks for this mod, I truely enjoy it.

OK,I Just logged of the game after several hours of play (need some sleep):
Very Good Mod!
Only I had an issue with some wonders :
The Dragon horde & Altar of the Lunnoton didn't give the free promotion as they suppose to.
I hope you will fixed that in later pase.
Any way Thanks for this mod, I truely enjoy it.

I will get right on it, thanks!

holy crap, this blows me away. Thats a ton of work already! :D

Played about 100 turns or so.

So far everything works and runs beautifully, but....

I really, really wanted to get right into the new units and so far I haven't seen any! After these 100 turns my best unit is still a warrior. I found myself looking ahead hoping to see the cool stuff. :)

Also, I think the tech needs to be speeded up some. 20+ turns right from turn 1 is a lot. Makes for a lot of "Enter" just to get to a point where your apprentice can do something.

I think I'll start a game in a different era so I can see how this baby uses all of the new goodies.

Played about 100 turns or so.

So far everything works and runs beautifully, but....

I really, really wanted to get right into the new units and so far I haven't seen any! After these 100 turns my best unit is still a warrior. I found myself looking ahead hoping to see the cool stuff. :)

Also, I think the tech needs to be speeded up some. 20+ turns right from turn 1 is a lot. Makes for a lot of "Enter" just to get to a point where your apprentice can do something.

I think I'll start a game in a different era so I can see how this baby uses all of the new goodies.

Keep in mind the advanced units require buildings. So you need a barracks to build Axemen, Macemen and PIkemen. You need an Archery Range to make Archers, Longbowmen and Crossbowmen, etc... etc.. etc..

The delay is intentional. I want to give players the opportunity to earn a few levels before the new units become available.

I saw that specific buildings were needed and I think that's a good idea. I'm not sold on the tech rate yet, but I'm keep plugging away. :)

Very impressive piece of work :goodjob:

Are there any restrictions on game setup ?? Type and size of World..Normal vs Epic game etc... ??

Very impressive piece of work :goodjob:

Are there any restrictions on game setup ?? Type and size of World..Normal vs Epic game etc... ??

Hmm... There are no eras beyond reinasaunce, the diplomatic and space race victories have been removed (and a religious victory added). Thats about it. You can play whatever map you want, type of game, etc.

Oi. Too many early levels. I ended up stuck on a continent with no contact with other civs... for sooo long! I ended up just using the WB to edit in some cool units to play with while I waited... and waited... and waited :P

I would be very appreciative if you sped up that early game a tad. I've been playing since about 10 minutes from that post up there, and I have yet to get to the buildings that let me get a cool unit :P

The worst part was my capital started with *three* grains AND a fishie, so I didn't want to restart!

Oi. Too many early levels. I ended up stuck on a continent with no contact with other civs... for sooo long! I ended up just using the WB to edit in some cool units to play with while I waited... and waited... and waited :P

I would be very appreciative if you sped up that early game a tad. I've been playing since about 10 minutes from that post up there, and I have yet to get to the buildings that let me get a cool unit :P

The worst part was my capital started with *three* grains AND a fishie, so I didn't want to restart!

Do you think it was to long to get to tier 2 (axeman/archer/horseman)? To long to get to tier 3 (macemen/longbowman/horse archer)? Or to long to get to tier 4 (Immortal/marksman/knight)?

My mouth is watering just looking at this... someone get me a towel
EDIT: Making a Giant by simply changing the scale of the unit is ingenious!!!

hi Kael, looks like a very capacious mod you've done here, it changes just about everything in the game!

I was trying to mod something only religion-related, wonder if you could be interested in my thread or have any ideas about it

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=147778

hi Kael, looks like a very capacious mod you've done here, it changes just about everything in the game!

I was trying to mod something only religion-related, wonder if you could be interested in my thread or have any ideas about it

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=147778

The way I handled this in Fall from Heaven is I had the religion specific buildings give a negative happiness if there is a building of an opposed religion in the same city. I don't have it on the temples, I have a lot of religion specific stuff, but I did do this with the specilized buildings (the asylum, basillica, etc).

Played about 100 turns or so.

So far everything works and runs beautifully, but....

I really, really wanted to get right into the new units and so far I haven't seen any! After these 100 turns my best unit is still a warrior. I found myself looking ahead hoping to see the cool stuff. :)

Also, I think the tech needs to be speeded up some. 20+ turns right from turn 1 is a lot. Makes for a lot of "Enter" just to get to a point where your apprentice can do something.

I think I'll start a game in a different era so I can see how this baby uses all of the new goodies.
Actually, i love the slow tech advencement, it just gives more time to enjoy certain units, warfare, etc ;)

I saw in that there is change log for 0.6, could you release the file?
thanks :-)

Edited :
Something that bother me :
Too much Green smilies, may be it is intended...
In the same topic : Public baths give +1 green smile insted of giving more heath (-1/-2 green smile).
Conjurer : How do I conjure elemental?

Actually, i love the slow tech advencement, it just gives more time to enjoy certain units, warfare, etc ;)

Slow tech is fine, in later eras. I'm just saying that I'm not enjoying my warriors. ;) Once you get into the next era then by all means the tech rate is fine, but getting there has been lengthy.

I tweaked the first era research using Vilu's tech tool loacted here:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=140264

I set it to 0.7 and left the others as is. Most likely later when the super col stuff starts rolling I'll set the later eras to 1.5 or 2 so I can use them longer. In reg Civ4 I have them set as high as 5x normal so I can actually use knights before they become obsolete.

Kael - What are your ideas for new civs? Can the rest of start dabbling or do you have ones in mind?

It looks like some of those Civics are 'inspired' from the Europe Europa mod.

I played your mod yesterday for a while. Very good work indeed!

I encountered some bugs and want to let you know them:
- With a prophet (great person) you may build a religion's special building in the city where the religion was founded. I your mod you may build that buildings in every city you like without having founded the religion yet. I accidently clicked on the special building for the elves but wanted to build it for Octopus. But for the AI who founded actually the elves religion, the building wasn't build yet and the AI built it after in order. Only then the icon for elves building vanished, before not. The funny thing: you may build each special building in all cities until it is built in the 'correct' city. You will get all the extra money from EVERY multiple special building :p
I think the constraints checking for the special building are just screwed. I assume there are no changes needed as this should work as in the original game.

- The 'purge the unfaithful' wonder gives you minus 2 happiness, nothing else. Thats what the description is saying; I haven't built it yet.

- another wonder, which gives your troops mithril armor (forgot the name of that wonder) does nothing after being built. No extra traits for troops built in this city.

Thats all I can remember for now. Hope this helps. Your mod is just GREAT!

so far, ive only read about your mod, but im already impressed.
two thumbs up :D

I copied the zipped folder into the civ4 mods folder, but it isn't showing up under "custom game". Help?

under "Advanced" -> "Load Mod"

I saw in that there is change log for 0.6, could you release the file?
thanks :-)

Edited :
Something that bother me :
Too much Green smilies, may be it is intended...
In the same topic : Public baths give +1 green smile insted of giving more heath (-1/-2 green smile).
Conjurer : How do I conjure elemental?

I will gather a few changes before releasing publically (I also have fireballs and root in now and have to do some testing), if you PM me your email address I will send it to you so you can have it. Thanks again for finding and reporting the issue.

Yes it is intentional that the PUblic Baths give happiness and a little negative health. There are some very unsavory things that go on in the public baths.

You have to be within your cultural borders and not in a city to summon and elemental or a demon. Summoning them destorys any improvements in that tile. I want you to be able to summon creatures anywhere but I haven't been able to get it to work from a coding perspective yet. So I gave demons a move of 7 and earth elementals a move of 5, the conjurer is best to stand at your borders, conjure them and send them in to attack.

Kael - What are your ideas for new civs? Can the rest of start dabbling or do you have ones in mind?

Fall from Heaven gets its name from the scenerios that are planned for it. Their are 5 characters in that storyline (the same people that left and right of the title on the main menu) that are planned as civ leaders. I intend to always keep the nomal civ's as well (I couldn't imagine a civ game without my buddy Ghandi). It was pushed to phase 2 because without the scenerios the new civ's are mostly just a cosmetic change.

edit (07/20/2008): These plans switched a bit over the development of FfH2. The people on each side of the title (who I believe were Os-Gabella, Capria, Hemah and Valledia) were intended to be major players in a scenario called Tempus Mor. Hemah eventually became a hero, the rest became civ leaders as mentioned orginally.

I did think the Civ4 vanilla leaders would stay in the game until FfH2 (what I called phase 2 above), because I didn't see a point in adding new civs and leaders just as cosmetic changes since I couldn't make any of the real changes I wanted. But Haarbal's new leaders and civs were to cool so I added them in.

could someone put this on another site i am having trouble getting the file to download from filefront. thank you.

I played your mod yesterday for a while. Very good work indeed!

I encountered some bugs and want to let you know them:
- With a prophet (great person) you may build a religion's special building in the city where the religion was founded. I your mod you may build that buildings in every city you like without having founded the religion yet. I accidently clicked on the special building for the elves but wanted to build it for Octopus. But for the AI who founded actually the elves religion, the building wasn't build yet and the AI built it after in order. Only then the icon for elves building vanished, before not. The funny thing: you may build each special building in all cities until it is built in the 'correct' city. You will get all the extra money from EVERY multiple special building :p
I think the constraints checking for the special building are just screwed. I assume there are no changes needed as this should work as in the original game.

- The 'purge the unfaithful' wonder gives you minus 2 happiness, nothing else. Thats what the description is saying; I haven't built it yet.

- another wonder, which gives your troops mithril armor (forgot the name of that wonder) does nothing after being built. No extra traits for troops built in this city.

Thats all I can remember for now. Hope this helps. Your mod is just GREAT!

I will check into the prophets, I noticed they werent gray in other cities but I assumed it was a graphic problem. Thanks for the heads up, I will get it fixed.

Purge the Unfaithful's only lasting impact is a permanent -2 happiness int he city that built it. Its game effect is that it is an inquisition in every city you own (driving out all relgions but your state religion). I need to get the building's documented, I should have that done by the next release.

Yeah, Mamimo reported that buildings weren't giving the automatic promotions correctly. That has already been fixed and will be included in version 0.6.

It looks like some of those Civics are 'inspired' from the Europe Europa mod.

They are actually stolen from ArbitraryGuy's AGCivic's mod. I haven't looked at Europe Europa, but since AG authored both of them it makes sense that he would use them. Arbitraryguy did amazing work on his Civ's and I used a lot of his ideas when I made my civ's. I have this in the readme for the mod:


Thanks:

A huge thanks to the artists I shamelessly cut tiny pieces of art from to make all of the icons and graphics used in this mod. Justin Sweet, Brom, Keith Parkinson, etc etc are all amazing and contributed (unknowingly) not only the amazing art, but inspiration for a fantasy world through their work.

I would also like to thank my fellow modders at CivFanatics, especially Mylon (code help), The Big Apple (code help), ArbitraryGuy (from whom I stole a lot of the Civic ideas and art), Requies (code help), Master Lexx (code help), and Supa (who made the Lioness and Tiger skins). Most of these folks don’t even know they helped me, but it was only by studying your work that I was able to figure out how to do the stuff myself.

The longest wait is DEFINITELY from tier one to tier two. I got large numbers of pimped out hunters because I figured, hey, thats probably what he wants... then I waited... waited some more.

It took a long time to get to the things that were fun (and by then I had used world builder to plop a barbarian city and a demon summoner and conjurer for me so that I would have _something_ to do! ;p).

The units are extremely powerful, and I like it! Its very cool how you can send in a massive horde of demons and elements all at the same time.

Must say I was disappointed about not being able to fling fireballs yet.

Not much to say about the other units... but hey, the big draw is the magic system and that is what is super cool!

*Have you checked out the code they use for placing forests randomly in game? Maybe that would give you an idea for how to rework summoning away from magical improvements.

You could always try sending one of the Firaxis people an email. They are sometimes willing to help modders :P

This is the kind of mod that I have been waiting for since Civ4 came out.

Thanks!

They are actually stolen from ArbitraryGuy's AGCivic's mod. I haven't looked at Europe Europa, but since AG authored both of them it makes sense that he would use them. Arbitraryguy did amazing work on his Civ's and I used a lot of his ideas when I made my civ's.

:lol: I thought something looked familiar in those screenies! Nice work, Kael... Keep it up!

Ok, this mod just made Civ4 x398349833 more fun for me. Much more engaging and strategic than vanilla civ.

Some bugs I found (I think):

- Built the 'The Dragons Horde' and 'Alter of Lunnoure' in the same city; did not recieve the promotions (Blessed/Mithril) when I created units.

- Egypt in my game some how built the holy city wonder 'Song of Autumn' in 3 seperate cities.

Also, it seemed the Tier 1 horsemen were a wee bit overpowered. I was lucky enough to have horses within my capital's border to start the game. Which basically let me deter the 2 other civs on my island from expanding at all. I could easily hold them off with just two horsemen, moving in and pillaging two tiles, then move out of range with the third move etc. Yes, I was dependant on the lucky resource; it was just too easy. I suggest maybe making the Tier 1 Horsemen have 2 move, instead of 3.

Anyways, I love this mod to death, so much potential. Looking forward to testing out some custom maps/scenarios.

Seeing Barbarian Hill Giants approaching my cities that are protected by warriors was scary! Luckily they simply menaced me and never attacked. Yikes.

nevermind, it must be a problem with some of their sites. i was clicking on one of the top servers,no luck. i then clicked on a server on the bottom of their list it put me on waiting,and then finally i could start my download.

Must say I was disappointed about not being able to fling fireballs yet.

Teaser screenshot of 0.60 for Aeon221. A mage throwing a fireball at an Air Elemental (i gotta figure out a way to darken up that elemental). That is the new art for the demon in the background.

Very nice.:crazyeye:

Seeing Barbarian Hill Giants approaching my cities that are protected by warriors was scary! Luckily they simply menaced me and never attacked. Yikes.

Thats actually part of the logic. Hill Giants and Skeletons will rarely (if ever) enter your cultural boundries. I wanted to make exploring dangerous (since the increased benifit of extra xp + more powerful promotions makes it more rewarding) without causing players to get wiped by a maurading hill giant.

Will this mod work on a slower comp?

Waaaaaah! Me want fireball now! Fireball > Sanskrit Exam!

Is the air elemental that dark smudge on the screen? YEEP! That'll be a pain in game when units that are physically invisible invade!

Out of curosity, how does the fireball work?

PS: That demon is... well... money!

Hunters are a bit unbalanced (3.2, +100% vs. wandering barbarians)... or they would be if there were other units around to take up the role. As is, they were the only unit capable of protecting me from hill giants, skeletons, and animals (oh my!).

Oh, and the hawk animation cracked me up :P

I swear I saw a propellor! Nice reskin on it though; its a crafty adaption of a strange unit system.

If _only_ this moddability had been in Civ3, when the units were sooo much easier to make!

Will I be able to run it on my slow comp?

I played your mod yesterday for a while. Very good work indeed!

I encountered some bugs and want to let you know them:
- With a prophet (great person) you may build a religion's special building in the city where the religion was founded. I your mod you may build that buildings in every city you like without having founded the religion yet. I accidently clicked on the special building for the elves but wanted to build it for Octopus. But for the AI who founded actually the elves religion, the building wasn't build yet and the AI built it after in order. Only then the icon for elves building vanished, before not. The funny thing: you may build each special building in all cities until it is built in the 'correct' city. You will get all the extra money from EVERY multiple special building :p
I think the constraints checking for the special building are just screwed. I assume there are no changes needed as this should work as in the original game.

Fixed. The fix will be included with 0.6.

Will this mod work on a slower comp?

The mod has no requirement above that of Civ4. If Civ4 works, I don't see why the mod won't. As the mod progresses you might notice a longer pause between turns on large maps. I have checks running between turns that perform actions that aren't in the real game.

Alright I am downloading it now.

Waaaaaah! Me want fireball now! Fireball > Sanskrit Exam!

Is the air elemental that dark smudge on the screen? YEEP! That'll be a pain in game when units that are physically invisible invade!

Out of curosity, how does the fireball work?

PS: That demon is... well... money!

Hunters are a bit unbalanced (3.2, +100% vs. wandering barbarians)... or they would be if there were other units around to take up the role. As is, they were the only unit capable of protecting me from hill giants, skeletons, and animals (oh my!).

Oh, and the hawk animation cracked me up :P

I swear I saw a propellor! Nice reskin on it though; its a crafty adaption of a strange unit system.

If _only_ this moddability had been in Civ3, when the units were sooo much easier to make!

The hunter gets a bonus vs animals but not barbarians (unless im missing something). Hunters are quick to get with the right Civ, which is a pretty nice advantage for civs that start with tracking and the. Especially since they don't have any resource requirements.

You can actually do the same thing in rushing for axemen with civs that start with the wheel and mining if you have copper close by. And as someone else mentioned if you start near horses you can rush to horsemen with the wheel and domesticate animals.

All of the units are more powerful that in the typical game. So at first glance they seem to be overpowered compared to what you may be useful. The question is, are they overpowered compared to each other? It is an inheriently better strategy to rush for hunters rather than axeman, than it is horsemen, than it is archers, than it is adepts, than it is disciples? (Keeping in mind that the adept path provides research bonus's and the disciple path founds religions).

I don't know the answer. Every path is viable. Some options are more efficient given the starting resources and particular civilizations. I would be curious to know if anyone thinks any particular path isn't up to snuff.

I promise you, the demon looks even better live. The fire animation is awesome. It was when I was building the fireball that I realized how neat it would look to wreath the demon in the same flames.

The mechanics of fireball and root are still being worked out. Right now I have a fireball and a root spell being dropped on the appropriate caster at the begining of each players turn and removed at the end of the turn (so they cant be used defensivly). This isn't working as consistently, some rounds they get them, some rounds they dont. If I can't get that to work like I want I will move them to be summoned just like elementals, excpet they get removed at the end of the round instead of at the start of that players next turn.

From a play perspective the player clicks his fireball icon (a button just like fortify, goto, etc) which creates a fireball in the sam tile, then he sends that fireball to attack someone. Currently Fireball is a strength 8 attacker with some decent collateral damage. It can be used against cities or individual units. The root spell is a strength 1 attacker that applies the 'rooted' promotion to anyone it hits, stealing their movement for the next turn.

Once I get the fireball all worked out I will use the same trick on catapalts and cannons so you can use them at range to shoot other units.

Kael

PS yeah, I need to work on the Air Elemental model. I just made him this morning so he is still in process.

I'm fairly sure it works against both animals and barbs, but I may be conflating hill giants with barbs, because I was definitely getting it against them.

Can you give us any hints as to the story line? Or is that still a work in progress?

Also, have you seen the AI conjuring units? Or are these used by the player only at the moment?

The game crashed on the 6th turn!

The game crashed on the 6th turn!

That is strange, I've actually never had a crash. I'll PM you my email address and see if I can get the save game and fiugure out what happend. Do you ever get crashes with Civ4 running without mods?

Umm yeah on this comp I get a ton of crashes.

That could be the reason. lol

Great work, Kael. You da man.

I have one gripe, though (don't we all?), the civic system. I feel like I'm the Prime Minister of France and not the ruler of a magical civilization in a fantasy world. I mean, "State-funded education?" "Senior-funding?" "Confederacy?" Humanism alone is an Enlightenment ideology--why should Elves and dwarves know about John Stuart Mill? I'm not sure if you're intending to keep these civics in the end game, but you definitely shouldn't. It really detracts from the atmosphere of the fantasy world to have such modern and contemporary civics.

Instead, start the civic system from the ground up and replace it with fantasy-esque civics. For Government, you could have civics like "Oligarchy," "Divine Rule," and "Council of Mages." For Economy, go with "Barter System" and "Taxation." Mercentalism and Environmentalism are relatively modern concepts. Labor's pretty good as is, but some creativity is neccessary.

Just my suggestion. Keep up the good work.

ﻢﻜﻴﻠﻋ ﻢﻼﺴﻟﺍ

I'm fairly sure it works against both animals and barbs, but I may be conflating hill giants with barbs, because I was definitely getting it against them.

Can you give us any hints as to the story line? Or is that still a work in progress?

Also, have you seen the AI conjuring units? Or are these used by the player only at the moment?

The Scouts, Hunters, Rangers, Druids and Beastmasters do currently get a bonus vs Skeletons and Hill Giants, as well as traditional animals. I could remove it but I liked the fact that the explore units were able to handle the "wandering monsters" better than traditional units.

The storyline is based on a Norse setting. It follows one character from relative unknown to a fully upgraded high level unit, with friends met along the way. Scenerios will be marked successful when goals are met, such as the killing of a specific monster, reaching a certain level, or discovery of a specific plot that reveals a treasure. Im hoping to use a system to write out and read in from a file to link the scenerios together. So your main character has the same promotions, unit class and xp at the start of the 2nd scenerio that he had at the end of the first one, etc. I also want to give him the option to follow the religion of his choice, with the corresponding changes in the scenerios.

Great work, Kael. You da man.

I have one gripe, though (don't we all?), the civic system. I feel like I'm the Prime Minister of France and not the ruler of a magical civilization in a fantasy world. I mean, "State-funded education?" "Senior-funding?" "Confederacy?" Humanism alone is an Enlightenment ideology--why should Elves and dwarves know about John Stuart Mill? I'm not sure if you're intending to keep these civics in the end game, but you definitely shouldn't. It really detracts from the atmosphere of the fantasy world to have such modern and contemporary civics.

Instead, start the civic system from the ground up and replace it with fantasy-esque civics. For Government, you could have civics like "Oligarchy," "Divine Rule," and "Council of Mages." For Economy, go with "Barter System" and "Taxation." Mercentalism and Environmentalism are relatively modern concepts. Labor's pretty good as is, but some creativity is neccessary.

Just my suggestion. Keep up the good work.

There is function and there is flavor. You are exactly right on the Civic's, good function, but I need to fix the flavor. I will definitly work on it as I move ahead, thanks for the feedback.

You're welcome :)

Something to think about is the axeman, I think they come too early in the game, twice I started & researched them first -> then conquered all my neighbors.

Something to think about is the axeman, I think they come too early in the game, twice I started & researched them first -> then conquered all my neighbors.

What difficulty are you playing on?

What difficulty are you playing on?
Played on Noble, with Terra Map, with both regular speed & epic speed (of course I didin't finish any of them ;) )

Incrediably good work its a very fun mod, and a huge spin on normal civ, the differences for religions i especially like, one thing to note, the ability to clear jungles comes VERY late game, bumping this up a little would allow for more fair games, though if used properly in a scen it could be a wonderful touch, i.e. the late game civ, that started out with all jungles all of the sudden becomes a world power... etc etc...

anyways to reiterate, wonderful mod(and nice gw steals :})

Played on Noble, with Terra Map, with both regular speed & epic speed (of course I didin't finish any of them ;) )

Are you playing without barbarians? For me the first 3 phases of the game go through the following:

1. Exploration and battles with animals.
2. Defending from barbarians (punishing players who have spread out to quickly in phase 1).
3. Begining battles with other players.

In my experience although I can rush to Axemen, I can't afford to have enough leave my borders to launch a serious attack until the barbarians are under control. And by that point everyone usually has access to some Tier 2 units.

I may need to lower the Axeman's vs melee attack or boost warriors city defense. Let me know if your are playing with or without barbarians. And thanks again for the feedback.

I didn't think I would see a decent fanatasy scenario in a long time, since we can't mod new unit models yet. Sometimes, it's nice to be wrong :goodjob: Some notes:

I really liked the religion-specific units. Why don't you make many of the fourth tier units religion-specific too? I think it will add more character and allow merging of a bunch of late game technologies that basically are identical but provide different national units. Also, would it be possible to make the wonders religion-specific?

The building requirements for different units is an interesting idea, but it's a bit awkward for unit upgrades and I don't think the AI "gets it". The AI's cities were full of Warriors when I tested the mod.

I personally find the amount of available choices in research and buildings a bit staggering. A little less freedom of choice would make it easier to decide.

Right now you lose the ability to build religious missionaries (disciples) after awhile. Is that intentional in order to make the religious victory harder?

Hats off for Chicken Itza :lol:

How many neighbors is all your neighbors? If it was one or two... eh... but if it was five or six then maybe an adjustment needs to be made.

Getting bronze working, finding copper, building a barracks, and then churning out axemen takes a considerable amount of time. I'd hope it was a fluke that you found it too easy. I'm getting my arse kicked on Prince.... ;)

Makes you differentiate what cities are to make which units. Too time consuming to make all of the buildings. Nice balance so far.

Kael - I'm loving the extra promotions from barbs. Man you can make some awesome scouts!

I didn't think I would see a decent fanatasy scenario in a long time, since we can't mod new unit models yet. Sometimes, it's nice to be wrong :goodjob: Some notes:

I really liked the religion-specific units. Why don't you make many of the fourth tier units religion-specific too? I think it will add more character and allow merging of a bunch of late game technologies that basically are identical but provide different national units. Also, would it be possible to make the wonders religion-specific?

The building requirements for different units is an interesting idea, but it's a bit awkward for unit upgrades and I don't think the AI "gets it". The AI's cities were full of Warriors when I tested the mod.

I personally find the amount of available choices in research and buildings a bit staggering. A little less freedom of choice would make it easier to decide.

Right now you lose the ability to build religious missionaries (disciples) after awhile. Is that intentional in order to make the religious victory harder?

Hats off for Chicken Itza :lol:

I thinkt he 4th tier religion units are a good idea, they will probably get added down the road.

I thought and thought about making some religion specific wonders. Each relgion has a "2nd tech" (a tech that requires the religion granting tech, but is never used for anything else). I put wonders on all of these 2nd techs. That way the religion discovering civ is more likely to get the wonder, but its not garunteed, you have to work for it. It seemed like a good compromise. I also didn't want to make it a game advantage to cycle through the religions, I wanted to make it just as practical to pick one and stick with it through the game.

I really had to mess with the AI to get it to begin using the buildings. I garuntee that it uses them (I have been beaten and beaten on prince difficulty) but I did have to do a lot of work to make it happen. It's possible that I still may need to improve on the weighting to make it run better.

I like having all the options as long as they all aren't nessesary. I love the thought of being able to play a game as the ashen veil with nothing but archers and mages and concentrating on those skills and abilities. Then playing another game where you do nothing but disciples and recon with the fellowship fo the leaves, etc etc. I know there is a ton to do and it is intentional that you can't build a super city that does it all, I like the choices it forces. I just need to work on making all those choices meaningful.

Good point about the disciples, I will have to think about that.

Incrediably good work its a very fun mod, and a huge spin on normal civ, the differences for religions i especially like, one thing to note, the ability to clear jungles comes VERY late game, bumping this up a little would allow for more fair games, though if used properly in a scen it could be a wonderful touch, i.e. the late game civ, that started out with all jungles all of the sudden becomes a world power... etc etc...

anyways to reiterate, wonderful mod(and nice gw steals :})

Good advice, I moved it up from Iron Working to Survival.

Whats gw stand for?

It's sooooo good!! I've been playing for hours now... I really like this mod!!!
It's gonna be a blast when it's finished

guild wars, i noticed a number of icons were from there, they look very good in the setting though

guild wars, i noticed a number of icons were from there, they look very good in the setting though

Ahhh. Yeah I've never played but I came across a site that had all the icons for the skills and I thought they were awesome.

The way I handled this in Fall from Heaven is I had the religion specific buildings give a negative happiness if there is a building of an opposed religion in the same city. I don't have it on the temples, I have a lot of religion specific stuff, but I did do this with the specilized buildings (the asylum, basillica, etc).

1) Can you demolish buildings, in case you decide to switch religions?
2) Does the AI understand this process, and can it demolish old religion's buildings, too?

1) Can you demolish buildings, in case you decide to switch religions?
2) Does the AI understand this process, and can it demolish old religion's buildings, too?

In my mod you have to launch an Inquisition in a city to destroy buildings. Which destorys all buildings of any religion other than the state religion. There is also a wonder that launches an Inquisition in all your cities at once.

The computer seems to understand that a building will give a negative happiness if built and weight that along with other criteria to decide what to build next. Most likely it means the first building the computer has (the one that fits that cities religion) will be the only one built.

If I were to add a function to destroy buildings the computer wouldn't know how to use it, at least not until the SDK comes out.

hmmm now that brings us back to the original question: Does the computer "understand" to use this inquisition tool? (btw does it give any unhappiness in the city or among civilizations with the removed religions?)

Because, if the computer can't use it, then it's basically stuck with whatever first-religion it adopted and built its buildings. We need a mechanism which makes it able to switch religions, coz that adds alot to the gameplay

Wow. I'm definately going to have to keep an eye on this mod. keep up the good work.

Kushan

I've been testing it out under a number of different approaches, but it has always seemed to me, that dwarven warriors will romp over early era, it seems that this area of the tech tree could use a little balancing, especially the elven units, btw nice touch in making fishing boats req. harbors, it prevents the mad fishingboat rush

Ok, I played only two times in this mod, The first time I build amost all the wonders in my capital & got axe man later & still could beat most of my closest opponent cities. I didn't attacked the second aponent near which proved to be a mistake (still kicked his ass). This was more adjusted then the later game.
The second game I got axe man & eliminated 2 civilazations while I they had around 5-6 cities & I had 2-3, the problem was that they had only wariors against my axe man.

My strategy was like this :
1) scount out scouting, warior in the city & city makes settler.
2) having two cities while the first build one warior & then starts on Pyramids.
3) The second city build worker & other units while waiting for Pyramids in my first city.
4) Then I reseach a bit more untill I can use my resorces & head on to axeman.
You see it's a long jurny to axeman but after I get the pyramids I change my gov to up my capital production by 50%, then I can produce the building faster & units faster.
In the first game it was somewhat more balanced then the second, in both of them I kicked ass of two closest opponents, while I had Axe man they had lots of warior & some archers.

May be it was a fluke & it was fun !

Oh, another thing in the first game I had all of the wonders that should give promotion bonus (& didn't work) if I had them working I would truely could be imvincible.

Another point -> one vanila axeman stood against 4 wariors in a city, attacked once & of promotion 20% strength, attacked second time got promotion 50% against meele, Now axeman only has 1.5 health left however the wariors still can't handle him because of his promotions.

I think the solution is to make axeman more expensive, the thing is that dwarf & elven archer come long time after it & aren't as strong (in my view point) & cost more to build.

dwarf rushing is possible with the phil. tech, and the preqs to a dwarf beeline are all production oriented, it makes it a very solid path, and you should be able to handle the upped cost with mines and possibly a city w/ bronze in radius

Kael - Are you going to organize the tech tree further? Right now it seems that after 150 turns or so there are 15-20 techs that can be researched at any given time. Any plans to tighten up the prerequisites or is it intentional to not need multiple prereqs for most of the techs? Not a complaint by any means, but it is overwhelming to have so many choices and have no idea (yet) what to research.

Also, I love the music for converting to Leaf Fellowship, or whatever it is.

Is it possible to add little icons near the cities (like the barracks, trade route, ect) for all of the extra military buildings we're making, like the stables, archery range, ect? I'm trying not to make them all in each city, but can't keep track of what has what. :)

One last thought - Did you enable the replanting of woods? Maybe let only the Tree worshippers replant and then make it so they can't be rechopped? And can there be another type of forest? Ancient forest? Just some random ideas...

Kael - Are you going to organize the tech tree further? Right now it seems that after 150 turns or so there are 15-20 techs that can be researched at any given time. Any plans to tighten up the prerequisites or is it intentional to not need multiple prereqs for most of the techs? Not a complaint by any means, but it is overwhelming to have so many choices and have no idea (yet) what to research.

Also, I love the music for converting to Leaf Fellowship, or whatever it is.

Is it possible to add little icons near the cities (like the barracks, trade route, ect) for all of the extra military buildings we're making, like the stables, archery range, ect? I'm trying not to make them all in each city, but can't keep track of what has what. :)

I need to add a strategy marker to the techs so that it becomes apparent when you are looking at them what each one does. But yeah, even beyond that the tree could use some tightening..

One last thought - Did you enable the replanting of woods? Maybe let only the Tree worshippers replant and then make it so they can't be rechopped? And can there be another type of forest? Ancient forest? Just some random ideas...

Yeah, Elven Archers and Druids can both build forests. I like your idea for the ancient forest, it could be added, the hard part would be making it look different.

Ok, I played only two times in this mod, The first time I build amost all the wonders in my capital & got axe man later & still could beat most of my closest opponent cities. I didn't attacked the second aponent near which proved to be a mistake (still kicked his ass). This was more adjusted then the later game.
The second game I got axe man & eliminated 2 civilazations while I they had around 5-6 cities & I had 2-3, the problem was that they had only wariors against my axe man.

My strategy was like this :
1) scount out scouting, warior in the city & city makes settler.
2) having two cities while the first build one warior & then starts on Pyramids.
3) The second city build worker & other units while waiting for Pyramids in my first city.
4) Then I reseach a bit more untill I can use my resorces & head on to axeman.
You see it's a long jurny to axeman but after I get the pyramids I change my gov to up my capital production by 50%, then I can produce the building faster & units faster.
In the first game it was somewhat more balanced then the second, in both of them I kicked ass of two closest opponents, while I had Axe man they had lots of warior & some archers.

May be it was a fluke & it was fun !

Oh, another thing in the first game I had all of the wonders that should give promotion bonus (& didn't work) if I had them working I would truely could be imvincible.

Another point -> one vanila axeman stood against 4 wariors in a city, attacked once & of promotion 20% strength, attacked second time got promotion 50% against meele, Now axeman only has 1.5 health left however the wariors still can't handle him because of his promotions.

I think the solution is to make axeman more expensive, the thing is that dwarf & elven archer come long time after it & aren't as strong (in my view point) & cost more to build.

I think your right, I am going to look into the following for 0.6:

1. Increasing the costs of Axemen.
2. Reducing the vs melee bonus of Axemen.
3. Check the AI to make sure it correctly values the Tier 2 units.

Hia. Just to say Kael, great work! :goodjob:

Iv been trying to make a fantasy mod for a while, but i lacked the tools and skills (!) to make any new units graphics, and i struggled to get my XML changes to work in the game, so it on hold for a while....Anyways...

Did you say that 0.6 was released, and if it is, is there a link to it?
Sorry if i missed it or misread that 0.6 was released. Looking forward to playing

In the meantime, keep going! :goodjob: :lol:

mrkingkong

Hia. Just to say Kael, great work! :goodjob:

Iv been trying to make a fantasy mod for a while, but i lacked the tools and skills (!) to make any new units graphics, and i struggled to get my XML changes to work in the game, so it on hold for a while....Anyways...

Did you say that 0.6 was released, and if it is, is there a link to it?
Sorry if i missed it or misread that 0.6 was released. Looking forward to playing

In the meantime, keep going! :goodjob: :lol:

mrkingkong

No, 0.6 is the verison I am currently working on. 0.5 is the released version. 0.6 is targeted for release on 12/23.

BTW, someone rated this mod a 1, any feedback on what you didn't like?

BTW, someone rated this mod a 1, any feedback on what you didn't like?
Your mod should get 11/10 :) if not for the content (if one don't like fantasy) then for the time & effort.
:goodjob:

Your mod should get 11/10 :) if not for the content (if one don't like fantasy) then for the time & effort.
:goodjob:

Thats the same system my wife uses use to rate my love-making.

:lol:

Perhaps the one was an additional 1 from the 11 / 10 that someone gave you?

dl 0.5 now BTW

mrkingkong

Hmm thats odd, cant download the file from Filefront. It saying something about an error because i am trying to establish multiple connections to the download link. Any ideas what im doing wrong?

mrkingkong

Hmm thats odd, cant download the file from Filefront. It saying something about an error because i am trying to establish multiple connections to the download link. Any ideas what im doing wrong?

mrkingkong

Sounds like you may be using a download manager it doesn't like. It downloads fine for me.

There, I finally voted. Brought it back where it belongs. I have no idea why idiots rate things poorly. Take a look at the New Civs thread.....

Kael - I'm not sure if you can re"skin" forest, but anything older looking would look cool for Ancient Woods.

Played this mod from the begining 'till the end of tech tree. But i really hate one thing - that i need to build separate buildings for each of advanced units :mad: It makes game too long and boring :(

Thanks for ignoring my question kael!

Played another game of your mod. This time I focused on the Elves and tried to play them using their advandages by building all special buildings and planted woods all over my realm. But after a while I chop them down again, because cottages and farms are still better. Woods should give another decent benefit to the elves to make it worth playing them like (wood)-elves. For instance an extra food or movement in forest fields for kingdoms with Leaves of the Elves as state religion.
The same should applied to the dwarves and other religions to force players to use different playing styles.
Furthermore the tech tree should be tighter linked to the religions. For instance you may not build dwarf-specific buildings if this isn't your state religion, even if you dicovered it first. You need to switch religion in order to build them.

I also find some bugs:
- Forests may be planted on a field where a forest already exists.
- In some cases my summoned demons stayed alive after one turn. I dunno when. But I had two demons which I could use like normal units after summoned.

Planting a forest should require more time. With only 4 turns I can easily boost my production: Place an elven archer and a apprentice on the same field. Plant a forest (4 turns), chop it down again (3 turns). I didn't try to plant and chop the still existing forest simultanously (see bug above). But if this works this is a big deal for abuse.

And finally a question: My foe pillages my hamlets with a saboteur. I can't see the unit and haven't yet found out a way to detect those units. There was nothing I could do against those marrauders and I quit the game :-/

Wow.
FfH is absolutely awesome, and quite possibly the best CivIV mod so far.

I do have one little question though. I can't find the tech that allows tech trading. Is this:
a) My mistake (if so, please tell me what tech is needed).
b) Completely intentional (noooo!)
or c) Something that will be fixed

Keep up the good work, and may the Runes of Kilmorph always guard you.

Played this mod from the begining 'till the end of tech tree. But i really hate one thing - that i need to build separate buildings for each of advanced units :mad: It makes game too long and boring :(

Speed up the techs, I did. :)

It is BETA.

Planting a forest should require more time. With only 4 turns I can easily boost my production: Place an elven archer and a apprentice on the same field. Plant a forest (4 turns), chop it down again (3 turns). I didn't try to plant and chop the still existing forest simultanously (see bug above). But if this works this is a big deal for abuse.

I think, if possible, that replanted forests should become permanent. No chop abuse. Not idea if that's possible.

One other thing. Should the cost of the training buildings be lowered? It's tough to spend 60 gold and wait 10+ turns before you can build a unit.

Thanks for ignoring my question kael!

hey -- calm down, please.
some of your questions sounded a bit like statements to me.
which is no problem, but it might mean that kael didnt feel the urge to comment on them / answer them.
perhaps he read them, thought something like 'true, i gotta check that later' and went on to answer some 'real' questions.

or perhaps it was entirely different.
who am i to know :D

however, lets all stay nice and friendly, mmmm'kay? :)

humph *crosses his arms* alright

After playing way too much here are some things I've noticed (that may have already been mentioned prior):

1 - The tech tree is a jumble. You can research a lot of things seemingly out of order. I'm firmly convinced it needs to be tightened up. (I know I already mentioned it, but I'm passionate!)
2 - The cost of upgrades is out of whack. In my current game I had the choice of producing a warrior in 4 turns or an axemen in 9. It's an easy choice since upgrading the warrior to an axeman only costs 40 gold. This leads to #3...
3 - Way too much gold early on. I'm at 100% research and still have a surplus per turn and 1000 in the bank. Maybe too many +1 gp modifiers flying around?
4 - The Pagan Temple can be built and gives a positive culture boost even after you have a state religion?
5 - The promotions seem a bit overpowered. A lot of +50% ones. Maybe knock then down a hair.
6 - Not much of a difference between a Hunter and an Elven Archer. Maybe the religious units should be more powerful?
7 - The upgrade from Apprentice to Adept seems unusual. Maybe its just me.

I'm really looking forward to the 5 flavor civs for the scenarios. Good job Kael.

Thanks for ignoring my question kael!

Sorry Fachy, I could weight the computer to value inquisitions but I haven't. So it is unlikely to perform them. Once the SDK comes out I hope to be able to add "intellegent decisions" about the use of these features instead of simple weighting. But until then the featurues are being implemented to get as close to that mark as possible so that I can concentrate on the SDk required features when it becomes available instead of tech requirements.

Played another game of your mod. This time I focused on the Elves and tried to play them using their advandages by building all special buildings and planted woods all over my realm. But after a while I chop them down again, because cottages and farms are still better. Woods should give another decent benefit to the elves to make it worth playing them like (wood)-elves. For instance an extra food or movement in forest fields for kingdoms with Leaves of the Elves as state religion.
The same should applied to the dwarves and other religions to force players to use different playing styles.
Furthermore the tech tree should be tighter linked to the religions. For instance you may not build dwarf-specific buildings if this isn't your state religion, even if you dicovered it first. You need to switch religion in order to build them.

I also find some bugs:
- Forests may be planted on a field where a forest already exists.
- In some cases my summoned demons stayed alive after one turn. I dunno when. But I had two demons which I could use like normal units after summoned.

Planting a forest should require more time. With only 4 turns I can easily boost my production: Place an elven archer and a apprentice on the same field. Plant a forest (4 turns), chop it down again (3 turns). I didn't try to plant and chop the still existing forest simultanously (see bug above). But if this works this is a big deal for abuse.

And finally a question: My foe pillages my hamlets with a saboteur. I can't see the unit and haven't yet found out a way to detect those units. There was nothing I could do against those marrauders and I quit the game :-/

I will work on the forest problem, that should be easy enough to fix.

The cleanup on the summoned creatures interesting me too. I actuallly I had to change some code witht eh fireballs because the code didn't run consitently and I bet you are seeing the same thing.

Your right, the elves forest build should be long and the druid can keep the short version.

The Sabotuer's are countered with other Saboteurs, Shadows and Marksmen. I think you are right though, they should be able to pillage. They can run around and attack if the opponent isn't able to counter, but I didn't think about using them to pillage.

Thanks Joliette! This kind of feedback is exactly why I released this version of the mod, and is just as important for making a fun mod as the work I am doing.

Played this mod from the begining 'till the end of tech tree. But i really hate one thing - that i need to build separate buildings for each of advanced units :mad: It makes game too long and boring :(

Im gonna have to think hard about that. Anyone else share that opinion. Although Im hesitant to remove the t4 buildings I may lower the cost. I would also like to flavor them each a bit (I like that the weaponsmith and armorer give a benifit beyond making the units, but some fo the buildings are still "generic" and do nothing but allow the unit).

After playing way too much here are some things I've noticed (that may have already been mentioned prior):

1 - The tech tree is a jumble. You can research a lot of things seemingly out of order. I'm firmly convinced it needs to be tightened up. (I know I already mentioned it, but I'm passionate!)
2 - The cost of upgrades is out of whack. In my current game I had the choice of producing a warrior in 4 turns or an axemen in 9. It's an easy choice since upgrading the warrior to an axeman only costs 40 gold. This leads to #3...
3 - Way too much gold early on. I'm at 100% research and still have a surplus per turn and 1000 in the bank. Maybe too many +1 gp modifiers flying around?
4 - The Pagan Temple can be built and gives a positive culture boost even after you have a state religion?
5 - The promotions seem a bit overpowered. A lot of +50% ones. Maybe knock then down a hair.
6 - Not much of a difference between a Hunter and an Elven Archer. Maybe the religious units should be more powerful?
7 - The upgrade from Apprentice to Adept seems unusual. Maybe its just me.

I'm really looking forward to the 5 flavor civs for the scenarios. Good job Kael.

I did a large reply to each point in this woodelf but the forum ate it :-(

Let me see if I can give some quick replies.

1. Your right.
2. Your right, Im going to increase this for 0.60.
3. What civ and relgion are you playing. I know the Runes has the potential to make serious money, I'd like to see what your doing to get so much to see if some option is to adventageous or if it is truely overall.
4. The pagan temple effect is intentional, all temples culture boost was reduced to account for the fact that it will exist.
5. I think your right again, this will be reduced slightly in 0.60.
6. I don't think the problem is that lack of a difference between the Hunter and the Elven Archer, but the lack of utility of the forests (which you mentioned earlier). Increase the utility of forests and both the elven Archer and the Fellowship of Leaves because more useful.
7. I added that because I want tech pursuit civ's to be able to switch to "war mode" in emergency situations (each play style needs a viable way to respond to purely military opponents). One of the ways this is done is to be able to convert their workers to military units. But as you said the upgrade cost needs to be a little higher.

Wow.
FfH is absolutely awesome, and quite possibly the best CivIV mod so far.

I do have one little question though. I can't find the tech that allows tech trading. Is this:
a) My mistake (if so, please tell me what tech is needed).
b) Completely intentional (noooo!)
or c) Something that will be fixed

Keep up the good work, and may the Runes of Kilmorph always guard you.

The Tech "Trade" allows technology trading.

The single building->unit thing is kinda slowing it down, i found the most bearable one was the barracks, but if you were to mix it up with multiple buildings->unit it would make it a little more progressive, and also knock out some of the over specialization

Barbarian scouts, not cool, its a neat concept to add more diversity to the barbs, i.e. giants skeletons and such, but the scouts, and later hunters, are just annoying with worker grabbing and such, 2 move barbs shouldn't show up till later, if ever.

On the discussion concerning ancient forests, is it possible to flag locations as being chopped, so that every tile can only get shields(ahem hammers) for chopping once, but be able to be -/de- forested multiple times, and having ancient forests be a forest that can be planted ontop of a forest making it permenant?

I also can't wait to check out .6
and a sugguestion, highlands with this mod is fun :} go hill giants

Fantastic and original work Kael. :thanx:

I agree that this needs a little polish but it is still a beta.

5/5 from me. :goodjob:

Looks like this could be one of the great Civ 4 mods. :D

You really worked hard on this one, I have spent a week playing and improving just a one Civ Mod so I can't imagine how long this took.

How many hours have you put in ?

Im gonna have to think hard about that. Anyone else share that opinion.
--->
The single building->unit thing is kinda slowing it down, i found the most bearable one was the barracks, but if you were to mix it up with multiple buildings->unit it would make it a little more progressive, and also knock out some of the over specialization
Here u gp :p

On the discussion concerning ancient forests, is it possible to flag locations as being chopped, so that every tile can only get shields(ahem hammers) for chopping once, but be able to be -/de- forested multiple times, and having ancient forests be a forest that can be planted ontop of a forest making it permenant?

That's a great idea to fix the infinite hammers loop. Instead of using a flag 'already chopped' for a previous de-forested forest you may just use a different terrain type called 'ancient forest' or 'enchanted forest' (see below). An ancient forest may then have another graphic representation that slightly differs from normal forests but has the same properties except the fact that chopping the ancient forest does not yield hammers.

Enchanted forests:
I like the idea to have different 'races' (--> religions) with different building types and unique abilites like in Starcraft or Warcraft. For the Elves that may be enchanted forests which can be planted by druids or elven archer. Enchanted forests have +1 food and +1 hammer more than normal forests. Furthermore they have a movement of 1 like grasslands/plains only for elven units to make them more valuable.

I did a large reply to each point in this woodelf but the forum ate it :-(

Let me see if I can give some quick replies.
[...]
4. The pagan temple effect is intentional, all temples culture boost was reduced to account for the fact that it will exist.
[...]
6. I don't think the problem is that lack of a difference between the Hunter and the Elven Archer, but the lack of utility of the forests (which you mentioned earlier). Increase the utility of forests and both the elven Archer and the Fellowship of Leaves because more useful.


4. I like the fact that you may build a pagan temple if you have no religion yet (or don't want to switch to a religion). But I think that only the temple according to your religious state should provide it's boni, like the monastery in vanilla civ4.

6. See proposal about 'enchanted forests' in earlier post :-)

I did a large reply to each point in this woodelf but the forum ate it :-(

Let me see if I can give some quick replies.

1. Your right.
2. Your right, Im going to increase this for 0.60.
3. What civ and relgion are you playing. I know the Runes has the potential to make serious money, I'd like to see what your doing to get so much to see if some option is to adventageous or if it is truely overall.
4. The pagan temple effect is intentional, all temples culture boost was reduced to account for the fact that it will exist.
5. I think your right again, this will be reduced slightly in 0.60.
6. I don't think the problem is that lack of a difference between the Hunter and the Elven Archer, but the lack of utility of the forests (which you mentioned earlier). Increase the utility of forests and both the elven Archer and the Fellowship of Leaves because more useful.
7. I added that because I want tech pursuit civ's to be able to switch to "war mode" in emergency situations (each play style needs a viable way to respond to purely military opponents). One of the ways this is done is to be able to convert their workers to military units. But as you said the upgrade cost needs to be a little higher.

The damn forum Gods strike again.

1 and 2 - :D
3 - I think in the game that I have way too much money I'm India, but can't recall which leader. I have the Fellowship of the Leaves that I founded. The extra cash comes from buildings that give +1 gold if you have fur or reagents or whatever. I like the idea, but it seemed odd to have so much extra cash for cheap upgrades. Maybe allow the player to adjust the culture slider sooner so I could get rid of some of my unhappiness with extra gold?
4 - OK. I'll start building them now. Before I thought I was exploiting.
6 - I look forward to anything that helps the elves. :) Do dwarves get bonuses in hills?
7 - Maybe it'll just take getting used to.

One last thought...Is there any chance you could grant the city that founds a religion a +1 GreatPerson/turn? I only ask because I had a game where I founded the Leaves, but never had a city complete a Wonder, therefore I never got the Prophet to build the special religious building. :( Crap.

That's a great idea to fix the infinite hammers loop. Instead of using a flag 'already chopped' for a previous de-forested forest you may just use a different terrain type called 'ancient forest' or 'enchanted forest' (see below). An ancient forest may then have another graphic representation that slightly differs from normal forests but has the same properties except the fact that chopping the ancient forest does not yield hammers.

Enchanted forests:
I like the idea to have different 'races' (--> religions) with different building types and unique abilites like in Starcraft or Warcraft. For the Elves that may be enchanted forests which can be planted by druids or elven archer. Enchanted forests have +1 food and +1 hammer more than normal forests. Furthermore they have a movement of 1 like grasslands/plains only for elven units to make them more valuable.

I know in Civ3 Fantasy Mods there were different forests that depicted Ancient or Enchanted. I haven't tried skinning the terrain, but if possible it should be doable to have replanted forests be different and then unchoppable. Maybe also have them damage other types of units, ala AoW. That would be cool.

Kael,

Read through this mod and downloaded it (over dial up!), there are some great ideas here, just great, but I have to agree with a lot of the people who said the first era just dragged on and on... I played for 45 mins or so and was only just discovered hunters (being my onld non-warrior combat unit). Also love the fact that animals and barbarians are just everywhere. Though I noticed that unlike vanilla civ4, your experience isnt capped at 5 / 10 when fighting animals / barbarians? Is this intended or not. I personally like this, but just wondering.

Anywho, keep up the great work!

Zibby

Kael,

Read through this mod and downloaded it (over dial up!), there are some great ideas here, just great, but I have to agree with a lot of the people who said the first era just dragged on and on... I played for 45 mins or so and was only just discovered hunters (being my onld non-warrior combat unit). Also love the fact that animals and barbarians are just everywhere. Though I noticed that unlike vanilla civ4, your experience isnt capped at 5 / 10 when fighting animals / barbarians? Is this intended or not. I personally like this, but just wondering.

Anywho, keep up the great work!

Zibby

Definitly intentional. I want to reward players for going out and "adventuring" with their units. I had to remove the xp cap to make that happen.

6 - I look forward to anything that helps the elves. :) Do dwarves get bonuses in hills?

One last thought...Is there any chance you could grant the city that founds a religion a +1 GreatPerson/turn? I only ask because I had a game where I founded the Leaves, but never had a city complete a Wonder, therefore I never got the Prophet to build the special religious building. :( Crap.

Yes the dwarves get a simliar bonus in hills (half movement cost and a stregth bonus). Dwarves can't build hills like elves do forests, their special ability is that they can be sacrificed for production.

From where does the audio for the order religion originate? I like it a lot, and I would like to hear more of it.

From where does the audio for the order religion originate? I like it a lot, and I would like to hear more of it.

The music for all of the religions except the Overlords is Enya. The Overlords cut if from "Desert Rose" by Sting.

Great mod! I have to agree with some of the earlier posts, though: the abundance of techs is bewildering at times and being obliged to construct a different building to train each type of new unit gets tedious. Other than that, it's a fantastic piece of work you've got, and I say this as someone who isn't even a fantasy fan. I especially like the giants :)

Thanks!

Here is my current want list for 0.60 which I am planning on releasing friday:

Change list for 0.60:

Fixes:
1. Fixed promotion granting benifits of the Weaponsmith, Armorer, Altar of Luonnotar and the Dragon's Horde. (reported by mamimo)
2. Fixed the fact that holy city wonders could be built in any city. (reported by Joliette)
3. Forests can no longer be built on a tile that already has forests (reported by Joliette)

Balance changes:
1. Moved Remove Jungle from Iron Working to Survival, making it available earlier. (recommended by Stalin_Bulldog)
2. Increase the unit upgrade costs (recommended by woodelf)
3. Anti-unit promotions reduced from +50%/+100% to +40%/+80% (recommended by woodelf)
4. Forest build time increased with Elven Archers (recommended by Joliette)
5. Removed Saboteurs and Shadows ability to pillage (recommended by Joliette)
6. Reduced Axeman, Maceman and Beserker bonus vs Melee from +50% to +25% (recommended by mamimo)
7. Increased the computers likelihood to rush to t2 military units (recommended by mamimo)
8. Priests can be used to add religions to cities like disciples (recommended by Mumin)
9. Added a Fireball spell for Mages
10. Added an Inferno spell for Archmages
11. Added a Root spell for Druids
12. Added an Escape Spell for Saboteurs and Shadows.
13. Decrease the costs for the unit training buildings (recommended by Crash757)
14. Fire elemental added.
15. Conjurer switched from being able to summon an Earth Elemental to a Fire Elemental.
16. Money bonus on Market reduced from +3 to +2. (recommended by Woodelf)


Cosmetic changes:
1. Civics changed to fantasy themed names (recommended by Felzor)
- Representation changed to Anarcho-syndicalist Commune -
- Confederacy changed to City States
- Senior Coverage changed to Care for the Elderly
- Socialized Medicine changed to Public Healers
- Military schools changed to Martial Discipline
- Religious Schools changed to Religious Discipline
- State Funded Education changed to Scholorship
- Environmentalism changed to Guardian of Nature
2. New art for the Demon unit.
3. Add Building strategy tags
4. Add Tech strategy tags


Here is my current list of things I want to get into 1.00.

Change list for 1.00:

Ranged attack for Catapalts and Cannons
Summoned units aren't being cleaned up? (Joliette)
Clean up the tech tree (woodelf)
Religion specific Techs and Civics
- Fellowship of Leaves- Guardian of Nature
- Runes of Kilmorph- ?
- Octopus Overlords- ?
- The Order- Social Order
- The Ashen Veil- Sacrifice the Weak
"Marksman” ability which lets the attacker select the unit he wants to attack in the stack for Assassins, Shadows and Marksman.
The Defiler unit, who destroys opponents land.
The Elementalist unit, who is capable of summoning 4 different types of elementals.
Armageddon spells!
- Apocalypse- Kills 50% of all units, destroys 50% of all buildings, halves city populations.
- Bane Divine- All Disciple branch units are reduced to Prophets.
- Blight- Destroys all food improvements, destroys 75% of all food bonus’s.
- Celestial Realignment- Destroys all active Armageddon spells.
- Doom Inexorable- Summons Meshabber of Dis (avatar unique unit)
- Enslave the Earth- Creates the Mithril Golem (avatar unique unit)
- Entropy Unbound- Slowly destroys the map.
- Glory Everlasting- All Demon units are killed.
- Knell of Darkness- Any living units that die within the owning players borders are raised as skeletons.
- Open Gate- Randomly produces demon units.
The Drown can travel through coast tiles.
Haste Spell for Adepts.
The Infernal Grimoire will have a 25% chance of summoning a barbarian Demon close to the building city.
4th tier religion specific units
Fireball/Infernos have a chance to start forest fires?
Ancient forests? (woodelf)
Switch all spells from improvement code to the command code so they can be used outside the players cultural borders (may need the SDK for this)


As you can tell I am trying to incorporate as many of your guys ideas as I can. Keep them coming.

Good list of changes Kael. I can't wait for Friday.

Are there any defend city promotions like the archer in vanilla?

Does anyone else think Philosophy needs another prereq or 2? Civs that start with Mysticism can get the free tech in 30 or so turns or even sooner depending on the goodie hut Gods. A minor issue, however.

Good list of changes Kael. I can't wait for Friday.

Are there any defend city promotions like the archer in vanilla?

Does anyone else think Philosophy needs another prereq or 2? Civs that start with Mysticism can get the free tech in 30 or so turns or even sooner depending on the goodie hut Gods. A minor issue, however.

Yes, the City Garrison line is available to archer units in FFH, making them the best city defenders.

A potential far off wishlist item....

Are you planning on adding resources? Instead of "reagents" what about individual components for spells as well? Sulfur, black pearl, mandrake, sea monsters tails, whatever. I always liked gathering stuff and love more and more resources.

Also, is it possible to code farms to potentially act as mines? IE - when you mine you have a small (too small IMO) chance to find gold, gems, ect. What about having farms have a small chance to "grow" resources?

Holy sh**!!! The first fantasy mod! This is what I've been waiting for (see my sig :D !!! [party] :band:

I'll DL this immediately I get home this evening and be sure to give you feedback as appropriate.

In the meantime: great work :goodjob: and be sure it's appreciated! :worship:

Edit: removed mention of DyP... that was Kal-El...:-)

A potential far off wishlist item....

Are you planning on adding resources? Instead of "reagents" what about individual components for spells as well? Sulfur, black pearl, mandrake, sea monsters tails, whatever. I always liked gathering stuff and love more and more resources.

Also, is it possible to code farms to potentially act as mines? IE - when you mine you have a small (too small IMO) chance to find gold, gems, ect. What about having farms have a small chance to "grow" resources?

When I get to a full spell system this would be great. With only the handful of spells I have so far I hate to limit it even further by placing more specific requirements. So until Firaxis fixes the bug with the promotion code or exposes the command code (ie: releases the SDK) I don't think this will occur. Once they release the SDK, it will be spell heaven.

I dream of a world with spell schools, and a range of mage that can level up in different sorts of magic. So you can build a mage with 3 ranks of Fire Magic and 2 ranks of Death magic for example. And these ranks would determine the power of their spells as well as the spells they have access to. At that point different reagents for different spell types would be really cool.

Kael - wow! Fantastic mod. I have played for about 150 turns or so with no problems.

One small bug I wanted to run by folks in case they have also noticed this -

- Ships change direction at the end of every movement. So, if I have a ship moving east-west, at then end of one move it changes its orientation randomly to point east, west, north, south, southeast etc. Its not a big deal, more of an annoyance really. The ships still play fine and move correctly.

This is a great mod!! Thanks :goodjob:

Yea i found the same reorientating bug with summoners(boy are they fun)

Also i saw that you swapped earth eles for fire eles, would it be possible to have 4 different eles summonable, perhapes all the same except for strength+ versus one type, str- versus another i.e. Fire<Water<Earth<Wind<Fire or some other ordering, i could see that becoming neat, almost like a 2nd Ed. Dnd Mage Battle

The music for all of the religions except the Overlords is Enya. The Overlords cut if from "Desert Rose" by Sting.

Can you be more specific regarding The Order religion music?

1. Civics changed to fantasy themed names (recommended by Felzor)
- Representation changed to Anarcho-syndicalist Commune -
- Confederacy changed to City States
- Senior Coverage changed to Care for the Elderly
- Socialized Medicine changed to Public Healers
- Military schools changed to Martial Discipline
- Religious Schools changed to Religious Discipline
- State Funded Education changed to Scholorship
- Environmentalism changed to Guardian of Nature

Awesome, thanks for changing those around. While I think some are still a little cheesy/modern like "Care for the Elderly" (You have to admit, when was the last time you ever saw elves and dwarves worry about their elderly? Maybe you should just replace that civic altogether?), the rest sound much more like a fantasy game. City-states, public healers, and the disciplines are especially good choices in my opinion. Not sure what Anarcho-whatever means, but it's better then representation either way. Good job. Any chance you can release version 0.6 on Wednesday? That's when I get back home :cool:

ﻢﻜﻴﻠﻋ ﻢﻼﺴﻟﺍ

Oh, something to think about in the future. Since people have complained that your mod is too cluttered with too much tech and too many crazy possibilities, you might consider removing some of your civics. We don't really need 40+ civics, most of which are for some reason very Western and modern in origin, do we? This is one case where less is more. I would (if I had a ton of free time to just work on civics, which I know you don't), personally, start from scratch with the civic system and invent my own fantasy civics. Instead of renaming Representation into something else, or police state into something else, etc. I would create whole new systems.

Just something to think about for version 10.0 hehe. I know that's a lot of work and I'd rather have you work on spells, AI, and the tech tree first. You don't have to reply to this ;) In short, I think before you release your final, final version of FfH, the mod would look a lot more professional--and play a lot better--if you made your own fantasy-themed civics based upon the needs of this specific mod.

ﻢﻜﻴﻠﻋ ﻢﻼﺴﻟﺍ

We don't really need 40+ civics, most of which are for some reason very Western and modern in origin, do we?
ﻢﻜﻴﻠﻋ ﻢﻼﺴﻟﺍ

I am American of Armenian and Italian heritage. I understand that America has invaded Iran and Afganistan. These are bad wars from ANYBODYS point of view. Both sides in this struggle think they are doing what is necessary for survival.

Can we stop with all the ANTI-(insert anthing you like here) BS. How about being PRO-HUMANITY. War is bad, except when its part of a PC game :mischief:

I am American of Armenian and Italian heritage. I understand that America has invaded Iran and Afganistan. These are bad wars from ANYBODYS point of view. Both sides in this struggle think they are doing what is necessary for survival.

Can we stop with all the ANTI-(insert anthing you like here) BS. How about being PRO-HUMANITY. War is bad, except when its part of a PC game :mischief:
Dude, he was talking about the problem, that those civics are too modern for fantasy mod, not about your anti-americanism problem, lol...

when are you going to create the civilizations fantasy-style?
and maybe it's already in there, but i think the religions shouldn't spread and that civ's can't switch between state religions.

This mod is amazing. I played a full game with it, and I can give a decent report. 0.5 has all the problems listed - weapon smith and armor don't do squat, you can build unique religious buildings everywhere, and the dragon hoard doesn't provide mithril. I understand they've already been fixed. Anyway, now for the review:

Early game:

When you start out, you have to choose between being able to defend yourself and being able to harvest resources - that's just the way this mod works. If you are playing the computer, get the resources. As you expand your borders, the rest of the early research will come easily. If you can't cut down forest, you'll be screwed in the later game as you will never catch up technologically. IN the early game, send out scouts right away - those movement promotions mean you'll have the entire world map before the computer has woken up to go to the washroom. The goody huts will be 90% yours, and it will help a lot in the early game. The scouts can get promoted later, so they'll be good mid-game units.

mid game: try to found a religion and spread it with missionary zeal. Religion is the path to peace, and winning a mid-game war is almost impossible. The enemy will be able to produce much faster than you think, and he'll send his units everywhere - not good. Having said that, the key to victory in any war with this mode is ATTACK, ATTACK, ATTACK. The upgrades will make your units invincible, and attacking gets you a MUCH higher experience point bonus than defending.
Note that almost any unit worth having requires a building to create - so build those buildings. If you are like me in normal civilization, you chose the path of peace. In this game, treat it like a turn based RTS because that's what it feels like. Build buildings making sure to specialize cities, then churn out special units. Bring wounded units back to specialized cities and BUY UPGRADES (you make a LOT of gold in this game, not like normal civ4) and send them back to pound the enemy into dust. As long as you wait until the late mid-game, you'll be able to wage effective war (but keep diplomacy with the other neighbors - the last thing you need or can survive is a war on two fronts).

Late game:

In the late game, there are many national units - build them, use them. The demon summoner is unbelievably good and the computer has absolutely NO idea how to use it. Demons can be re-spawned as soon as they die, so ignore the advice above and use them as cannon fodder. Once you've pounded a city's defenses with spell casters, in most cities you can send in three demons to die, and your remaining national units can wipe the city flat. Garrison it with golems and move on. Don't worry too much if a city is retaken, Demons move FAST and you can retake a city and re-garrison in a turn. The end-game is about getting one enemy civilization to beg for mercy and then going for the next. HOWEVER, watch the cultural victory condition - you can lose in a heartbeat if the enemy built the correct world wonders. One enemy had a 100,000 culture city before I had my first legendary city. I almost died of stupidity in that game.

Another option - getting 80% religion is almost impossible - totally so once there are more than one religion in the game, but it might be worth a try using the fellowship of leafs religions (which is easy to get very early in the game). I would like to see a religious victory.

The mod is very fun. It requires a lot of test playing to balance out, but that's to be expected in such an early release. I am astonished how much work has been accomplished in a couple of weeks. You've completely changed civ iv from a slow combat chess-like strategy game to an extreme rts feel involving an unbelievable amount of combat. This game is a pleasure to play.

Advice for the mod:

The computer has trouble realizing how important special buildings are - it takes a long time to make things like summoning chambers for instance. It needs to balance out units with buildings more. (but then again, this has been a problem with the computer from civ I - and the main way that I win every game I play)

I can't easily tell what technologies found what religion, and doing so requires searching the whole tech tree to find.

lots and lots of play-testing for balance. I think that a functioning dragon hoard would completely mess up the balance of the game. Several of the world wonders are too powerful from what I can tell.

advice for players:

attack, attack, attack. This mod is NOT for pacifists (although the pacifism civic is good not matter what you do!)

Deethdeeler

Yea i found the same reorientating bug with summoners(boy are they fun)

Also i saw that you swapped earth eles for fire eles, would it be possible to have 4 different eles summonable, perhapes all the same except for strength+ versus one type, str- versus another i.e. Fire<Water<Earth<Wind<Fire or some other ordering, i could see that becoming neat, almost like a 2nd Ed. Dnd Mage Battle

Yes, the Elementalist is spec'ed to be able to summon all 4 elementals while the Conjurer can only summon one. Giving the Elementalist a lot more flexibility than his little brother. I just need to get the art down for the Air and Water elementals (and an improvement on the earth elemental would be nice too).

I am astonished how much work has been accomplished in a couple of weeks. You've completely changed civ iv from a slow combat chess-like strategy game to an extreme rts feel involving an unbelievable amount of combat.

Ah, but the question now becomes: Is that what Kael had in mind? :rolleyes:

Can you be more specific regarding The Order religion music?

I won't be home until Thursday and I am away from my resources, if you could send me a private PM with this question and I will check it out when I get there and send you the exact song.

Awesome, thanks for changing those around. While I think some are still a little cheesy/modern like "Care for the Elderly" (You have to admit, when was the last time you ever saw elves and dwarves worry about their elderly? Maybe you should just replace that civic altogether?), the rest sound much more like a fantasy game. City-states, public healers, and the disciplines are especially good choices in my opinion. Not sure what Anarcho-whatever means, but it's better then representation either way. Good job. Any chance you can release version 0.6 on Wednesday? That's when I get back home :cool:

ﻢﻜﻴﻠﻋ ﻢﻼﺴﻟﺍ

I wish, my work has me out and about so Friday is probably a hard date.

Aristocracy: Seems weak. Isn't it much better to build cottages?

Apprenticeship: I really like the idea of better but more slowly produced units :goodjob:

Consumption: Is that +10% commerce or +10% gold? You might want to change the symbol for gold.

Guilds seems very weak compared to Caste system, which on the other hand is a tad bit better than the other labor civics.

Military State: I can't for my life imagine that it's supposed to increase war weariness. That must be a glitch, right? Also, wouldn't sacrifice population make more sense?

Pacifism: Perhaps some more...war weariness? ;)

Sacrifice the weak: A science penalty but more gold bonus might perhaps be more fitting?

State funded education: I think this one should have better science bonus than Religious schools.

Overall, I like the plethora of civics but I think it would be smart to shrink the font size so that the text fit in the boxes.

This mod is amazing. I played a full game with it, and I can give a decent report. 0.5 has all the problems listed - weapon smith and armor don't do squat, you can build unique religious buildings everywhere, and the dragon hoard doesn't provide mithril. I understand they've already been fixed. Anyway, now for the review:

Early game:

When you start out, you have to choose between being able to defend yourself and being able to harvest resources - that's just the way this mod works. If you are playing the computer, get the resources. As you expand your borders, the rest of the early research will come easily. If you can't cut down forest, you'll be screwed in the later game as you will never catch up technologically. IN the early game, send out scouts right away - those movement promotions mean you'll have the entire world map before the computer has woken up to go to the washroom. The goody huts will be 90% yours, and it will help a lot in the early game. The scouts can get promoted later, so they'll be good mid-game units.

mid game: try to found a religion and spread it with missionary zeal. Religion is the path to peace, and winning a mid-game war is almost impossible. The enemy will be able to produce much faster than you think, and he'll send his units everywhere - not good. Having said that, the key to victory in any war with this mode is ATTACK, ATTACK, ATTACK. The upgrades will make your units invincible, and attacking gets you a MUCH higher experience point bonus than defending.
Note that almost any unit worth having requires a building to create - so build those buildings. If you are like me in normal civilization, you chose the path of peace. In this game, treat it like a turn based RTS because that's what it feels like. Build buildings making sure to specialize cities, then churn out special units. Bring wounded units back to specialized cities and BUY UPGRADES (you make a LOT of gold in this game, not like normal civ4) and send them back to pound the enemy into dust. As long as you wait until the late mid-game, you'll be able to wage effective war (but keep diplomacy with the other neighbors - the last thing you need or can survive is a war on two fronts).

Late game:

In the late game, there are many national units - build them, use them. The demon summoner is unbelievably good and the computer has absolutely NO idea how to use it. Demons can be re-spawned as soon as they die, so ignore the advice above and use them as cannon fodder. Once you've pounded a city's defenses with spell casters, in most cities you can send in three demons to die, and your remaining national units can wipe the city flat. Garrison it with golems and move on. Don't worry too much if a city is retaken, Demons move FAST and you can retake a city and re-garrison in a turn. The end-game is about getting one enemy civilization to beg for mercy and then going for the next. HOWEVER, watch the cultural victory condition - you can lose in a heartbeat if the enemy built the correct world wonders. One enemy had a 100,000 culture city before I had my first legendary city. I almost died of stupidity in that game.

Another option - getting 80% religion is almost impossible - totally so once there are more than one religion in the game, but it might be worth a try using the fellowship of leafs religions (which is easy to get very early in the game). I would like to see a religious victory.

The mod is very fun. It requires a lot of test playing to balance out, but that's to be expected in such an early release. I am astonished how much work has been accomplished in a couple of weeks. You've completely changed civ iv from a slow combat chess-like strategy game to an extreme rts feel involving an unbelievable amount of combat. This game is a pleasure to play.

Advice for the mod:

The computer has trouble realizing how important special buildings are - it takes a long time to make things like summoning chambers for instance. It needs to balance out units with buildings more. (but then again, this has been a problem with the computer from civ I - and the main way that I win every game I play)

I can't easily tell what technologies found what religion, and doing so requires searching the whole tech tree to find.

lots and lots of play-testing for balance. I think that a functioning dragon hoard would completely mess up the balance of the game. Several of the world wonders are too powerful from what I can tell.

advice for players:

attack, attack, attack. This mod is NOT for pacifists (although the pacifism civic is good not matter what you do!)

Deethdeeler

Awesome write up, thanks for that. I have really pushed the AI to get it to build the unit buildings. In early versions of the mod the computer loved hawks, I would come across cities with dozens of hawks garrisoned. I guess he really really knew I was coming. But I do think I need to invest mroe on making the computer prefer the t4 unit training buildings.

The computer does not know how to summon right now. I don't know if the fix will make it into .6 or .7 but I do know how to fix it.

There is a relgious icon on the tech chart for each that grants a religion but the techs definitly need a little strategy blurb for each to help players decide what they do and don't want to do.

Did you notice that your demons or elementals didn't dissappear at the end of the turn?

Aristocracy: Seems weak. Isn't it much better to build cottages?

Apprenticeship: I really like the idea of better but more slowly produced units :goodjob:

Consumption: Is that +10% commerce or +10% gold? You might want to change the symbol for gold.

Guilds seems very weak compared to Caste system, which on the other hand is a tad bit better than the other labor civics.

Military State: I can't for my life imagine that it's supposed to increase war weariness. That must be a glitch, right? Also, wouldn't sacrifice population make more sense?

Pacifism: Perhaps some more...war weariness? ;)

Sacrifice the weak: A science penalty but more gold bonus might perhaps be more fitting?

State funded education: I think this one should have better science bonus than Religious schools.

Overall, I like the plethora of civics but I think it would be smart to shrink the font size so that the text fit in the boxes.

Great feedback! I have tried and tried to shrink that font and have been unable to do so (technical limitation or my own boneheadedness stand int he way).

My thinking for Military state was that everyone was involved in warfare, making for an effecitve military country, but also more resistence to prolonged battles. It's incrediably counter-intuitive and I went back and forth on it a few times, in the end I think your right.

I will look through these before I release 0.60 and see if I can make any improvements.

Thinking about woodelf's Ancients Forests idea Im thinking about making them dangerous to enemy units that pass through them. Perhaps they occasionally spawn treant's that attack units in the tile if the owning country is has fellowship of the leaves as a state religion and the units are at war with the owning country.

Also, one of the reason's the t4 building are kinda just "there" is the design doc actually doesn't call for them. According to the design docs a t3 unit of sufficient level can be promoted to the t4 unit, and that is the only way to produce t4 units. So for example a crusader would just need to be level 8 and in a city with a temple to become a palaldin, and paladins could never be made from scratch. Once I can get that idea to work the t4 buildings will probably be scrapped (or kept for their non-unit making functions).

Can you make (skin) Treants or woodland monsters?

Down the road....are there plans to make civ (race) specific tech trees? Or at least make it impossible for certain civs (races) to found certain religions? In the back of my mind I'm hoping for completely new LHs whether they be dwarf, elven, human, whatever. If this isn't in your plans I'm wondering how easily it could be done. Maybe 2 or 3 elves, a couple dwarves, some humans that can go towards any religions, some undead, ect.

Sorry to ramble, my coffee is still brewing....

And I know the extra resources are a long ways down the road, but you could skin mythril, obsidian, ect. That would make some kick ass units. :)

Eeeeeee Gads! Im ready to R & R :band: on this one!
:hammer: Attention, Attention, I must download now..........
goodbye...........





:dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :yeah:

Great feedback! I have tried and tried to shrink that font and have been unable to do so (technical limitation or my own boneheadedness stand int he way).


Have you tried this one? (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=3306963&postcount=3)

Or do you mean that the current font seems to be the smallest possible?

I can tell I haven't played long into any 1 game since I just now got Iron Working. :blush:

Wow, what a jump from Axemen to Macemen. 4 att to 8! Too much?

And I love Mercenary units. Cool.

Have you tried this one? (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=3306963&postcount=3)

Or do you mean that the current font seems to be the smallest possible?

Yeah, its the font i can't shrink, Im alreayd doing the changes recommneded in the post you linked.

Can you make (skin) Treants or woodland monsters?

Down the road....are there plans to make civ (race) specific tech trees? Or at least make it impossible for certain civs (races) to found certain religions? In the back of my mind I'm hoping for completely new LHs whether they be dwarf, elven, human, whatever. If this isn't in your plans I'm wondering how easily it could be done. Maybe 2 or 3 elves, a couple dwarves, some humans that can go towards any religions, some undead, ect.

Sorry to ramble, my coffee is still brewing....

And I know the extra resources are a long ways down the road, but you could skin mythril, obsidian, ect. That would make some kick ass units. :)

Well I can make treants.. if they look good or not is the question.

More race specific units were planned (Elven Longbowman, Elven Riders, Dwarven Hammerfists, Dwarven Crossbowmen, Thrull, Nightmare and Wraith) but they were cut because I didn't like reusing the models. But yes I think new civilizations based on the races with an entirely new unit structure would be awesome. Unfortunatly I will need new models to do it well so the new Civ's were pushed to Phase 2. I am stretching to make the most of the models I have, when the SDk comes out, expect great things.

Oh, I just remembered that somebody was skinning Orc models in the Units Creation forums. Maybe check that out. I'm sure there's a lot of potential there--although it sounds like you have plenty of units as is. Ta ta.

Started my first game yesterday... and played for hours and hours, getting up early this morning to play some more! Greeeeattt work!! :goodjob:

Haven't got up to the new units yet, but I already love it anyway - especially all those promotions I'm getting from slaughtering hordes of Barbarians :D

Some feedback from the early game which I hadn't seen mentioned yet:

1. Many buildings use the same build icons - Obelisks, Granary, Barracks I've noticed up till now. This get's confusing when you have several of these build options in a city at once. Would be nice if you could get individual new icons for them.

2. One thing I hate about vanilla Civ4 is the way experience gets reset to 10 on upgrading units... you go this one better by resetting to 0 :mad: .. or maybe even negative XP (is that possible?), since the first win by my upgraded Axemen (from Warriors) sometimes doesn't give any XP yet.

Please, please at least leave my veterans the normal 10 XP... even better, leave them all their XP, if that's possible!
Now I have lots of Axemen with 5 promotions, who will probably never see another one... since they have to get about 30 XP for the next - and by then they'll upgrade to Macemen or something and start all over again...:mad:

Edit: 3.) I like the building prereq's for specific units - but they're a bit expensive, at least for the early game!

Otherwise - great Mod! Keep up the good work! I hope very much you can keep your deadline Friday, so we'll have the next version for the holidays..

Started my first game yesterday... and played for hours and hours, getting up early this morning to play some more! Greeeeattt work!! :goodjob:

Haven't got up to the new units yet, but I already love it anyway - especially all those promotions I'm getting from slaughtering hordes of Barbarians :D

Some feedback from the early game which I hadn't seen mentioned yet:

1. Many buildings use the same build icons - Obelisks, Granary, Barracks I've noticed up till now. This get's confusing when you have several of these build options in a city at once. Would be nice if you could get individual new icons for them.

2. One thing I hate about vanilla Civ4 is the way experience gets reset to 10 on upgrading units... you go this one better by resetting to 0 :mad: .. or maybe even negative XP (is that possible?), since the first win by my upgraded Axemen (from Warriors) sometimes doesn't give any XP yet.

Please, please at least leave my veterans the normal 10 XP... even better, leave them all their XP, if that's possible!
Now I have lots of Axemen with 5 promotions, who will probably never see another one... since they have to get about 30 XP for the next - and by then they'll upgrade to Macemen or something and start all over again...:mad:

Edit: 3.) I like the building prereq's for specific units - but they're a bit expensive, at least for the early game!

Otherwise - great Mod! Keep up the good work! I hope very much you can keep your deadline Friday, so we'll have the next version for the holidays..

Yeah, it wasn't my intent to have xp reset so far (or at all). i agree that xp should remain the same through an upgrade. I will see what I can do to change it.

Kael - What do you need help with, if anything? Do you need specific things playtested, civilopedia help, ideas, ect?

The Tech "Trade" allows technology trading. Thank you. Kinda makes sense, doesen't it?

While I think some are still a little cheesy/modern like "Care for the Elderly" (You have to admit, when was the last time you ever saw elves and dwarves worry about their elderly? Maybe you should just replace that civic altogether?) I disagree. Dwarves and elves could definitely worry about the elderly, why shouldn't they?

Aristocracy: Seems weak. Isn't it much better to build cottages? I concur, your excellency (ah, those civ CivII advisors, I still miss them)

You might also wish to consider improving workshops. With a max bonus of +2 hammers and no StPr to remove the food penalty, they are a bit weak.

Looking at the late tech tree I wondered about two things:
1) Isn't "omniscience" a better word for the tech that reveals the map than "omnipotence", as it does not give an instant win?
2) I didn't see a future tech. What happens when you run out of things to research?

Yea i'm with woodelf, if you need any help with anything, just ask, this mod has the potential to be awesome

and to the above, errm don't elves/dwarves live incrediably long times, in lotr elves lived forever, so i think the care for the elderly civic makes sense

I disagree. Dwarves and elves could definitely worry about the elderly, why shouldn't they?

Oh come now, it's the elderly who are usually the RULERS! Anybody seen Lord of the Rings? The 300 year old elves with grey hair are the ones planning battle strategies and conjuring magic. You sure don't see them in an assisted-living home, now do you? Similarly, it's the wise old dwarf who sits atop his throne ruling the kingdom.

I'm just trying to make this game have more of a fantasy feel to it. Rather then "Care for the Elderly" you should have "Council of Elders." That makes a lot more sense. But seriously, I havn't heard of or played even one fantasy game that has government systems that in any way relate to modern times. But this is pointless, so I'll stop bringing civics up because Kael has plenty of other things to worry about :)

first of all Kael, fantastic mod. not only does it satisfy my codded cIV needs, but it has as much potential as any mod ive seen. in addition to all the comments everyone has made and the planned upgrades you have, i have a couple interesting ideas, so hear me out and if they arent possible (yet) just shoot em down.

1st) simple thing... can we have an upgraded catapult available in the mid game? they are pretty weak, especially vs. macemen and T2 and higher units.
2nd) bring macemen down to 6 or 7 at the most for strength, 8 is way to much, as mentioned by someone else above.
3rd) too much gold produced in the game. i agree with whoever said that.

(and now for the long term ideas!)

4th) how about we go one step further than simply a few units for each religion? i like the idea of haveing several for each, but lets keep going! i would LOVE to see dwarves be able to not only build roads in mountains, but cities as well! think of Khazad-dum!!! also, elves should have a promotion that not only makes them have a defense bonus in forests (and/or ancient forests) but should be invisible in them! plus the idea of forest guardians/ents is great that you guys came up with.
5th) i dont know much about what this mod is based on, but could we add a civ/culture/religion that is similar to merfolk? they could have "land units" that can go in the sea and be able to build cities in the sea and build special improvements or something to make for enough tiel yield. i just think this would be cool to play as, at least maybe in a scenario or something.
6th) i know this isnt so big or important, but ive seena few mods with random events like volcanoes, locusts, fertility, etc. and was wondering if we could put something similar in here, but with some extra things like "hoard fo orcs approaches" and create a few "orc" units nearby or something like that. ...who knows.
anyway, thats all for now i think. keep up the excellent work.

(ps. i like your idea about removing the buildings required for T4 units, go for it. also, my summoned units die right away (first turn) so it works right)

Anybody seen Lord of the Rings? The 300 year old elves with grey hair are the ones planning battle strategies and conjuring magic. You sure don't see them in an assisted-living home, now do you?

More like 5000-8000 years :p.

Oh come now, it's the elderly who are usually the RULERS! Yes, but in CivIV (and Civ has always been about changing history), rulers are decided by the Gov. civics.

Rather then "Care for the Elderly" you should have "Council of Elders." Council of Elders souns like great idea for a Gov. civic, but not for a Healthcare one.

Kael - What do you need help with, if anything? Do you need specific things playtested, civilopedia help, ideas, ect?

Things I could use help with:

1. Neat looking skins for my units, I am not an artist and anyone able to provide quality reskins, especially for the models I reuse would be appreciated.

2. Audio sounds for the spells (summoning a demon, summoning a fire elemental, casting bless, casting cure disease, casting vitalize land, fireball, escape, root). The format doesn't matter, but if you can provide a small clip that sounds good I would definitly appreciate it.

Looking at the late tech tree I wondered about two things:
1) Isn't "omniscience" a better word for the tech that reveals the map than "omnipotence", as it does not give an instant win?
2) I didn't see a future tech. What happens when you run out of things to research?

1. Good point, I will change it to Omniscience.

2. I wanted the game to have a tech victory, but of course the space ship wasn't appropriate. So instead I will be using Armageddon spells. They are so overpowered that they are close to just giving you the win, like the spaceship, but they actually let you play through it. They will all be extremely high cost to research and have to be built as wonders to take effect. That is the mod's version of a "future tech"

1st) simple thing... can we have an upgraded catapult available in the mid game? they are pretty weak, especially vs. macemen and T2 and higher units.

Catapalts and Mages are currently functionaly identical. The catapalt is only provided to allow some barrage/collateral damage capacity to non-mage civ's. So they are not intended to scale appropriatly with the other lines. Use mages for the same purpose and you will find they work better.

2nd) bring macemen down to 6 or 7 at the most for strength, 8 is way to much, as mentioned by someone else above.

I will definitly be bringing down their anti-melee ability from 50% to 25% and droping the shock promotion from +50% to +40%. I think you are probably right and the power probably needs decreased to, I will check it out.

3rd) too much gold produced in the game. i agree with whoever said that.

I have decreased the money production of the market and increased the cost of upgrades. We will see how this plays out in 0.60. Remember almost all of the economic civics allow gold buying to finish production, part of the reason I give more gold and have higher build costs is because I expect players to rush production more often than in the origional game.

4th) how about we go one step further than simply a few units for each religion? i like the idea of haveing several for each, but lets keep going! i would LOVE to see dwarves be able to not only build roads in mountains, but cities as well! think of Khazad-dum!!! also, elves should have a promotion that not only makes them have a defense bonus in forests (and/or ancient forests) but should be invisible in them! plus the idea of forest guardians/ents is great that you guys came up with.

I definltly want more religious units and increased diversification of the religions. This was just the first step.

5th) i dont know much about what this mod is based on, but could we add a civ/culture/religion that is similar to merfolk? they could have "land units" that can go in the sea and be able to build cities in the sea and build special improvements or something to make for enough tiel yield. i just think this would be cool to play as, at least maybe in a scenario or something.

Im trying to get the Drown to be able to travel in land and coast tiles. If I can get that working I might add in some additional sea units.

6th) i know this isnt so big or important, but ive seena few mods with random events like volcanoes, locusts, fertility, etc. and was wondering if we could put something similar in here, but with some extra things like "hoard fo orcs approaches" and create a few "orc" units nearby or something like that. ...who knows.

Direaussie has done awesome work in that mod, and I actually know him from another place. Since it greatly complicates my work to incorporate all the changes I have made with all of the changes they have made I had planned on waiting for version 1.0 before going out and checking out other mods to see what I can use. Direaussie's random event mod is on the top of that list. I am also very impressed with Master Lexx's Greenmod, so I will be talking to hum about adding his additional resources.

Il send you a few files in WAV format if you would like, but il have to send you them via an e-mail or such like, as it is an invalid file format to upload on here

mrkingkong

PS. Download was completed successfully after another try, so i will play and give you feedback tommorow probably! :goodjob:

I like the Random Events mod as well - it seems possible to combine the two. I have been playing the Fall from Heaven mod combined with the Random Events mod with no problems that I have noticed. It involves some work to combine the two - you have to cut and past some of the xml files is all.

Kael - I would also be interested to see your mod incorporate some of the work from the Great People's mod later on down the road, with customized popups with portraits and quotes for the great leaders. That could be fun with some cool portraits and fantasy-themed great persons based on the world you are creating. Just another thought.

Sorry if this is a stupid question to ask, but I can't seem to get the mod to load. I go to advanced -> Load a mod, choose Fall from Heaven and I get a popup that says that the game needs to restart to play.

The game restarts, and I see the Fall from Heaven title on the upper right, but starting a new game still drop me into the regular version, and if I choose to load a mod again, it makes me restart the game (again).

Any ideas?

Thank

Did you select Single Player -----> Custom Game?

Yah, but don't see any particular options in the custom game menu to choose. I started an archipelligo game, and then a custom continents game, but both look just like the regular game.

Ideas:
* Drowns and other aquatic units starts with the amphibious upgrade.
* In-game fantasy style music (great with the main menu and religion music, I would love to have something similar throughout the game).

Question:
*The Yggdrasil doesn't seem to give any bonus apart from the +4% culture, is that correct? As it is a wonder, I personally feel it ought to be a tad more powerful.

Sorry if this is a stupid question to ask, but I can't seem to get the mod to load. I go to advanced -> Load a mod, choose Fall from Heaven and I get a popup that says that the game needs to restart to play.

The game restarts, and I see the Fall from Heaven title on the upper right, but starting a new game still drop me into the regular version, and if I choose to load a mod again, it makes me restart the game (again).

Any ideas?

Thank

It sound like your mod/Fall from Heaven/ directory has the ini file in it but does it have the Assets directory? Does the assets directory have files in it?

Either that or you have copied a bunch of your assets files into your custom assets directory (Im not sure which is prefered, mod files or custom assets files).

Ideas:
* Drowns and other aquatic units starts with the amphibious upgrade.
* In-game fantasy style music (great with the main menu and religion music, I would love to have something similar throughout the game).

Question:
*The Yggdrasil doesn't seem to give any bonus apart from the +4% culture, is that correct? As it is a wonder, I personally feel it ought to be a tad more powerful.

The in game fantasy style music would be cool, it will probably be in the final polish.

Doh! The Yggdrasil should provide 3 resources, The Fruit of Yggdrasil which provide 1 Happiness and 2 Health tot he cities provided with them. But I see the building isn't linked correctly so it isn't providing anything. I will fix it in 0.60.

My units promote funny. I figure this could have to do with requiring buildings to build units. If I ave them fortifying some cities, they can't be promoted, even though those fortifying other cities can be promoted. Likewise sometimes I can move them out into parts of the countryside to promote them, but not other parts.

I'm not sure if it's because of the preceding, but I can't promote my Galleys to Galleons. I'm wondering if it's intentional that Galleys no longer promote, or if I simply need to find the right location to be able to.

I've played three maps and can't seem to find any mithril. I figure at least one ought to exist on every map. Maybe I'm just being confused and not looking in the right place, but I haven't seen it pop up on the map yet.

Genesis was cool, but I wasn't certain what it would do when I was building it. I'll look again for a description in case I missed it. I think it's important this is given it's due detail. In addition to terraforming much of my land, it also took out my fishing boats in the effected area, which was an uncool addition since it otherwise had no effect on the water. I rebuilt my boats and took control of those resources again.

Any plans for fantasy submersibles to take the place of submarines? Like summoning a kraken, or training lobster warriors?

Any plans for special wood resources? I don't anything about the world you seem to be basing the mod on, but I figure not everyone is big on metalworking. Bone, Shell, and Wooden resources to provide weapons/armor/etc. would be neat.

By the way, I think the setting for experience cap past promotion is in the globaldefines.xml.

There is such a thing as a bad isolated start on an island without rivers so your tech advancement is slow no matter what. It happens, restart or deal with it. I like the tech advancement speeds personally.

My units promote funny. I figure this could have to do with requiring buildings to build units. If I ave them fortifying some cities, they can't be promoted, even though those fortifying other cities can be promoted. Likewise sometimes I can move them out into parts of the countryside to promote them, but not other parts.

If the building is available you should be able to promote. I will check and see what is allowing unit to be promoted in the wilderness (I noticed it in one of my games and I think that with Catacombs Libralus you are able to upgrade adepts anywhere).

I'm not sure if it's because of the preceding, but I can't promote my Galleys to Galleons. I'm wondering if it's intentional that Galleys no longer promote, or if I simply need to find the right location to be able to.

No, they aren't set to upgrade. I will fix that in 0.60.

I've played three maps and can't seem to find any mithril. I figure at least one ought to exist on every map. Maybe I'm just being confused and not looking in the right place, but I haven't seen it pop up on the map yet.

I will pull up a few maps and make sure it always appears in at least a few places. Mithril is most often found up in the cold areas. I'll check and make sure it's popping, it should be rare but at least a few on each map.

Genesis was cool, but I wasn't certain what it would do when I was building it. I'll look again for a description in case I missed it. I think it's important this is given it's due detail. In addition to terraforming much of my land, it also took out my fishing boats in the effected area, which was an uncool addition since it otherwise had no effect on the water. I rebuilt my boats and took control of those resources again.

I love Genesis, when I get it fixed it will upgrade every tile the player controls. It does destroy all improvements in the effected areas. Orgionally I needed to destory the improvement as part of the code, but looking into it now I think I know a way to retain the improvements. I will try it out.

Any plans for fantasy submersibles to take the place of submarines? Like summoning a kraken, or training lobster warriors?

Maybe when I can get some new models, although I love the idea I don't have any models that are even close to that.

Any plans for special wood resources? I don't anything about the world you seem to be basing the mod on, but I figure not everyone is big on metalworking. Bone, Shell, and Wooden resources to provide weapons/armor/etc. would be neat.

I better get the current to pop correctly before I start adding new ones. :-). And yes, I have planned on some additional t4 resources. I think the early game is full of reosurces to get, I would like the late game to use rare resources to spark conflicts.

By the way, I think the setting for experience cap past promotion is in the globaldefines.xml.

You are correct, thanks.

Just played some more with this great mod, I started fresh & played slowly.
It's amazing that even with 2 wariors I can kick ass the computer in the begining.
I sent 2 wariors to gain XP & had 2 level 5 wariors, I checked around my AI enemies & saw that there wariors had to the most level 2 wariors, so I attacked & kicked ass of two civilizations.
Later in the game I played easy & went for the dwarves techs, and only then to AXE MAN.
I have to say that the AI is just plain wrong, may be because the tech jumble he doesn't know what to choose.
I concluded the following :


1) The AI doesn't do well at all with choosing his promotions & I saw that in all my games in most mods,here it's more important because in the beggining you have only warior for a long time. I don't know what can be done.

2) in early game even when I tried to do things slow so I could kill giants & other mosters & only fought regular barb, I think the culture should slow down in the beginning or let special barb units to roam more often for the interest.
May be let the monster loose when the player achive the tech that allow promotion against them (can't remember the name), if it's possible.

3)Make special units as dwarves & Elvs Civ specific, I don't see how one these two can get along together in one CIV on peace.

4)Tighten the tech (I know it was mentioned already).

5) Help somehow to the AI to get along with the techs, may be only in late stage when you make the CIVs for these game (I think you mantioned it - if not never mind).


* can you make an auto promotions for units with >30 experinece, lets say HERO promotion, this promotion will make other units in the same stack better or something like that.
............................................
Your mod is the the one I love most, I can't wait to the next verion. I alwayes stop & do not continue to later stages in game play because those wonders/building that don't work.

It sound like your mod/Fall from Heaven/ directory has the ini file in it but does it have the Assets directory? Does the assets directory have files in it?

Either that or you have copied a bunch of your assets files into your custom assets directory (Im not sure which is prefered, mod files or custom assets files).

Well it doesn't seem to be specific to your mod. I downloaded abbamouse's religions mod, and the same thing happened.

I've got C:\Program Files\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Mods\Fall from Heaven for my path, and then an Assets folder within that. The .ini file is in the Fall from Heaven folder, and I stuck everything else in the assets folder. That didn't work, so I created subfolders for Art, XML and Python (like the mods that came with the game have), and that didn't do anything either. Is there something else obvious I should try before reinstalling the game from scratch?

Thanks again.

Well it doesn't seem to be specific to your mod. I downloaded abbamouse's religions mod, and the same thing happened.

I've got C:\Program Files\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Mods\Fall from Heaven for my path, and then an Assets folder within that. The .ini file is in the Fall from Heaven folder, and I stuck everything else in the assets folder. That didn't work, so I created subfolders for Art, XML and Python (like the mods that came with the game have), and that didn't do anything either. Is there something else obvious I should try before reinstalling the game from scratch?

Thanks again.

Do the mods that came with the game work?

Just played some more with this great mod, I started fresh & played slowly.
It's amazing that even with 2 wariors I can kick ass the computer in the begining.
I sent 2 wariors to gain XP & had 2 level 5 wariors, I checked around my AI enemies & saw that there wariors had to the most level 2 wariors, so I attacked & kicked ass of two civilizations.
Later in the game I played easy & went for the dwarves techs, and only then to AXE MAN.
I have to say that the AI is just plain wrong, may be because the tech jumble he doesn't know what to choose.
I concluded the following :


1) The AI doesn't do well at all with choosing his promotions & I saw that in all my games in most mods,here it's more important because in the beggining you have only warior for a long time. I don't know what can be done.

2) in early game even when I tried to do things slow so I could kill giants & other mosters & only fought regular barb, I think the culture should slow down in the beginning or let special barb units to roam more often for the interest.
May be let the monster loose when the player achive the tech that allow promotion against them (can't remember the name), if it's possible.

3)Make special units as dwarves & Elvs Civ specific, I don't see how one these two can get along together in one CIV on peace.

4)Tighten the tech (I know it was mentioned already).

5) Help somehow to the AI to get along with the techs, may be only in late stage when you make the CIVs for these game (I think you mantioned it - if not never mind).


* can you make an auto promotions for units with >30 experinece, lets say HERO promotion, this promotion will make other units in the same stack better or something like that.
............................................
Your mod is the the one I love most, I can't wait to the next verion. I alwayes stop & do not continue to later stages in game play because those wonders/building that don't work.

Im hoping that all the balance changes you and others have recommended for 0.60 will address these issues.

I thought about having the religion specifc units destroyed if a player switches religions. But I don't really want to lock players that tightly into their starting religion and I was worried that it could be used as an exploit against computer opponents that were heavy in religion units. Thats why I opted to let people retain their units from former religions.

Warriors/Axemen/Macemen will be weaker in 0.60 and the anti-unit promotions will be reduced slightly, I think that will help a lot. I will look and see if I can weight the promotions a bit to get the computer to prioritize them a bit better.

Yeah I could give out a promotion that effected other units in the stack. I would probably tend to give an ability like this to a t4 spellcaster unit rather than just a unit promotion. Sorta like the bless spell, or I could have a unit that has a chance to ressurect defeated units that share its tile.

The wonders/buildings will definitly be fixed on Friday (as well as a bunch of other stuff). I will be looking forward to your post 0.60 feedback.

Yeah I could give out a promotion that effected other units in the stack. I would probably tend to give an ability like this to a t4 spellcaster unit rather than just a unit promotion. Sorta like the bless spell, or I could have a unit that has a chance to ressurect defeated units that share its tile.


That's great, however what I am shooting for is to possibilty to have HEROES, lets say like a National Unit only 3-5 of them & with only one or two from diffrent type of units : melee/archer/spelcaster ... one could not build a HERO, a HERO should form in the heat of battle ;) ... I am sure you know what I am getting at.

Insted of a promotion it can be a chance that after # level a unit can transform to a HERO.
Similar to ARMY in previous CIVs, but diffrent approuch.

Only if it's duable, of course.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
can't wait untill friday

Well it doesn't seem to be specific to your mod. I downloaded abbamouse's religions mod, and the same thing happened.

I've got C:\Program Files\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Mods\Fall from Heaven for my path, and then an Assets folder within that. The .ini file is in the Fall from Heaven folder, and I stuck everything else in the assets folder. That didn't work, so I created subfolders for Art, XML and Python (like the mods that came with the game have), and that didn't do anything either. Is there something else obvious I should try before reinstalling the game from scratch?

Thanks again.

I know this may sound obvious, but are you sure the mods arent working? Its just a hunch i have after you said the game didnt look any different. It doesnt initially for this (and im guessing the Religion) Mod, and therefore you may think it isnt working. If that isnt the case, then my apologies.

I had a similar problem to yours, except it was the mods i were creating that werent working, and what i did was reinstall the game completely, and then downloaded the patch from the www.civiv.com website, and now they work fine (apart from one or two little errors, mainly in MY xml coding! hehe).

Anyways, hope that helps. I understand how frustrating it can be when it is not working correctly,especially the mods which i believe are 1 of the most fun aspects of the game. You have my sympathy, and i would recommend downloading the patch for the game aswell if you do decided you want to reinstall!

mrkingkong

Absolutely brilliant mod. I've been waiting for a mod like this to come out for a while. I haven't had a whole lot of time to stress the mod, but I'm going to start putting in some good test time soon.

Incidentally Kael, are you a fan of the (heroes of) might and magic family of games? A lot of your concepts run parallel to that game universe. Furthermore, since your mod is not commercial software, you might be able to obtain permission to use some old M&M skins and stuff.

And if you can't get permission, odds are you can get forgiveness. ;) Again, as long as this mod never sees a dime you can basically do what you want as long as you avoid plagiarism by giving proper credits.

And while I'm on the subject, if you want fantasy music, look no further than Heroes of Might and Magic IV. The "flavor" and quality of the music is comparable to the midieval period in civ4, and the game installs them conveniently as mp3s.

Hi, I downloaded this mod and I had a few error messages as the game was restarting. I was able to start the mod but I noticed that the civs are the same as in the original game, also I noticed that the trojan horse is actually a tank. I just want to know if this was because of some file incompatablility due to the error messages got or because this mod is in the building stages, Thanks.

i don't know if you like it or not, but i'm TRYING (first shot didn't work) to create civilizations (almost completely based on Age of Wonders II). but when it works and is completed the first version should contain the following civs:
- The Elves (fellowship of Leaves); starting techs 'Animal Husbandary' and 'Ancient Chants'
- The Humans (the order); starting techs 'Fishing' and 'The Wheel'
- The Dwarves (Runes of Kilmorph); starting techs 'Mining' and 'Tracking'
- The Undead (The Ashen Veil); starting techs 'Militia' and 'Warfare' (or is this too overpowering)
- The Shadow Demons (Octopus Overlords); starting techs 'Mysticism' and 'Ancient Chants'

The names i used here are ripped from aow2:sm and my leaderheads and their names (so far) are ripped from here as well, but i'll try to find some more pics to add that are not ripped from aow2 :)
i also might add some more civs to the game eventually, but first i need this to work.

1.I like the ideas for the civs, but think that each civ should actually be humans, just with different city graphics.
Of course each civ should have only one possible religion.

2.and what are the armageddon spells?
UN resolutions?

3.Will you give the archer units ranged attacks?
just the marskman?

4.When one of my immortals dies, does it get reborn with its old experience?

More fireballs!!!

and events goping to be added soon?

i don't know if you like it or not, but i'm TRYING (first shot didn't work) to create civilizations (almost completely based on Age of Wonders II). but when it works and is completed the first version should contain the following civs:
- The Elves (fellowship of Leaves); starting techs 'Animal Husbandary' and 'Ancient Chants'
- The Humans (the order); starting techs 'Hunting' and ?
- The Dwarves (Runes of Kilmorph); starting techs 'Mining' and 'Bronze Working' (not sure if this is a starting tech)
- The Undead (The Ashen Veil); starting techs 'conquest' and ?
- The Shadow Demons (Octopus Overlords); starting techs ?

The names i used here are ripped from aow2:sm and my leaderheads and their names (so far) are ripped from here as well, but i'll try to find some more pics to add that are not ripped from aow2 :)
i also might add some more civs to the game eventually, but first i need this to work.

p.s. the ? will be filled in, in about an hour

I was on the verge of doing something similar, but wasn't sure if I wanted to only have the 5 racial civs. I'm with loki that maybe have 10 or so human, undead, whatever civs, but leave the ability for all to worship any religion. You can train Elven archers, but maybe only because you worship the Leaves do they come to your banner?

If you could come up with 8-12 civs with Fantasy names, new city names, and fantasy LHs that would be a cool start. Think of the dwarves, elves, ect as mercenaries or followers that come to you when you convert or discover their religion.

Just brainstorming, keep up the AoW thoughts. :)

i'm also planning to do more civ's, but first I want to get these working. i can plan a lot, but if it wont work, it's completely useless :)

if someone knows city names, you can always PM me (I need a nice capital name for the overlords :))
Capital names so far:
Dwarf: Khazak
Elf: Evermore
Human: Timberling or Stormgul (not really happy with theis ones as capital names)
Overlords (shadow demons): ?
Undead: Astrakam or Defalos, not quite sure yet.

haarbal

Well, if I were you I'd head over to the Civ3 forums and "borrow" some city names from either Mystara or Master of Myrror. Both were great Fantasy mods that had dwarven, elven, and orcish city names and LHs.

Adding these civs shouldn't be too difficult after you do all of the busy work in the proper xml files. The hard part would involve altering the tech tree so that the elven (or any other racial) stuff can only go to that one civ. Setting up neutral civs that can get any of the techs would be easier.

Incidentally Kael, are you a fan of the (heroes of) might and magic family of games? A lot of your concepts run parallel to that game universe. Furthermore, since your mod is not commercial software, you might be able to obtain permission to use some old M&M skins and stuff.


I agree. That's probably a good place to start. I remember playing the Heroes of Might and Magic mod for Civlization II, and it was probably the most fun I'd had with computer games in a long while. That was years and years ago, of course. I just thought it was really well done, although it differed from this mod in that each civ was a different faction and could build different units based on their faction (like Haarbal is trying to do). Also, that mod had some cool terrain tiles. I remember that they'd have a special terrain for each civ that was scattered around the map in rare quantities. For example, there was a Nature Node for the nature magic civ, a Sorcery Node for the sorcerer civ, etc. I too believe this mod could be "tightened" (that seems to be the goal) if each civ was separate, but I understand how that sort of takes away some of the strategy and options created by religion. Anyway, I should be home tonight so I'll play some and give a report later.

ﻢﻜﻴﻠﻋ ﻢﻼﺴﻟﺍ

Dunno about anyone else, but I've found that starting an age ahead is the best way to play this mod. Cuts down the time spent with the hunters :P

Dunno about anyone else, but I've found that starting an age ahead is the best way to play this mod. Cuts down the time spent with the hunters :P

Who gets the religions that way? I know I can try it when I get home, but I'm curious now. :)

Adding these civs shouldn't be too difficult after you do all of the busy work in the proper xml files. The hard part would involve altering the tech tree so that the elven (or any other racial) stuff can only go to that one civ. Setting up neutral civs that can get any of the techs would be easier.

i know that is isn't that hard to add some civs, but when i tried it yesterday, it didn't work for me, so i will be trying again tonight :p.
after that is shouldnt be so hard to add more civs.

haarbal

How do you get Typhoid Mary? I made the wonder for it but nothing poped out, neither could i produce it.

Hello guys,
I've been playing Kael's mod for several days now and I have to agree that it is truly a great piece of work with a lot of potential. Way to go. I hope I can be helpful in some way.

Several issues:
- Spiral Minaret doesn't work as supposed to. It may a minor problem for it is not sure whether it will make into the final version, but still, kind of annoying to spend time building a world wonder which does nothing. Some other wonders don't work as supposed as well, but I believe they've been mentioned already
- I support the idea of priests spreading religions - when disciples are no longer available (happened to me when concentrated on Ashen Veil and could build mages as well - disciples could not be build unless city didn't have a library or I gave away my reagents) there is virtually no way of making the enemies more friendly
- While playing as Hatshepsut on Noble and having Veil I had to carefully ballance expenses all the time to have money - yet when I played Qin and had Runes as my religion I produced way too much money. They were useful though cause I could afford buildings
- With so many civics Spiritual trait seems to be a bit overpowered since it gives bonus to all the priests as well - I could change civics at about any time and didn't have to think about twice. On the other hand philosophical became kind of poor giving only 50% bonus... Creative is also great since 2 extra points of culture mean a lot in this mod. Maybe too much.
- Maceman are overpowered, but that's been mentioned already as well.
- If not discovered by a human Veil and Order come to life far too late - it happened I waited over 150 turns after development of three 'basic' religions since the AI adopted one of those...
- The idea of Monotheism seems to be a problem. We have a pantheon of gods who somehow relate to each other and even influence the mortals, yet a whole group of people decides not to believe in the existance of the other gods? If the followers of Order would disregard the existance of Veil it would make their 'crusade' rather pointless. It's just like a group of ancient greeks who would cease to believe in existance of other gods so they could concentrate on following Zeus only. Just a thought.

On the mod development:
Generally, I full-heartedly support the idea of having multiple human civilizations with each one choosing with whom to ally with (dwarves, elves, overlords, creatures of the ether or angelic beings). It would give much more flexibility than race-oriented civs. Still, there could be some themed civs (each time I look at Montezuma he reminds me of some crazed woodelf follower ;)) with appropriate names and leaders.
Another thought, would it be possible to somehow disallow a civ which discovered one of the religious techs to research the other? After all most often it is that we try to adopt (and spread) the religion we found. It would make the choice to be much more though over and no single civ being allowed to start with more than one holy city. And with the 'or' requirements some techs could require only one of the religious techs to be discovered.

And about the proposed civs, I don't think that names 'The Undead' and 'The Shadow Demons' are inappropriate. Octopus Overlords remind me of Chtulhu mythos so I believe 'Old Ones' or something similar would do... As for the followers of Ashen Veil - they give the impression of being more concerned with all kinds of dark magicks, not just necromancy. 'The Cabal' or something in that fashion maybe?

Waiting for your replies
Cheers

i know that is isn't that hard to add some civs, but when i tried it yesterday, it didn't work for me, so i will be trying again tonight :p.
after that is shouldnt be so hard to add more civs.

haarbal

Well keep us posted on your progress. I'd rather have Dwarven worshippers of the Leaves than see Roosevelt again! :p

Well keep us posted on your progress. I'd rather have Dwarven worshippers of the Leaves than see Roosevelt again! :p

what do you want to head first, the good news or the bad news?
bad news?
i keep getting an error with assets\xml\text\GameTextInfos and the leadername doesn't appear correctly (something with txt_leader_julia)

the good news is that the rest is functioning perfect (except for the crappy flag at the moment:p and the standard quotes in diplomacy).
i will see if i can add my other civ's tomorrow (got to make some homework now:sad: ), but now that i'm getting the hang on it, it won't be too difficult:king: .

haarbal

what do you want to head first, the good news or the bad news?
bad news?
i keep getting an error with assets\xml\text\GameTextInfos and the leadername doesn't appear correctly (something with txt_leader_julia)

the good news is that the rest is functioning perfect (except for the crappy flag at the moment:p and the standard quotes in diplomacy).
i will see if i can add my other civ's tomorrow (got to make some homework now:sad: ), but now that i'm getting the hang on it, it won't be too difficult:king: .

haarbal

From my numerous hodge-podging of new civ mods I've seen the GameTextInfos.xml problems before. You don't have to modify the one that Kael did, you can simply add a new one for each civ or a complete one for all of them. For example you could have a GameTextInfos.xml for Julia of the True Elves like this:

<TEXT>
<Tag>TXT_KEY_CIV_TRUE_ELVES_DESC</Tag>
<English>True Elven Empire</English>
</TEXT>
<TEXT>
<Tag>TXT_KEY_CIV_TRUE_ELVES_SHORT_DESC</Tag>
<English>True Elves</English>
</TEXT>
<TEXT>
<Tag>TXT_KEY_CIV_TRUE_ELVES_ADJECTIVE</Tag>
<English>True Elves</English>
</TEXT>
<TEXT>
<Tag>TXT_KEY_LEADER_JULIA</Tag>
<English>Julia of the True Elves</English>
</TEXT>
<TEXT>
<Tag>TXT_KEY_CIV_TRUE_ELVES_PEDIA</Tag>
<English>*****The True Elves...blah blah</English>
</TEXT>
<TEXT>
<Tag>TXT_KEY_LEADER_JULIA_PEDIA</Tag>
<English>>[H1]Julia of the True Elves descends from a long line of blah blah....</English>
</TEXT>

This basic form is taken from the Bretagne civ. L'Ankou did a nice job laying it out. Basically what you've already done needs these text tags to fill in the blanks, I hope. Keep up the good work.

3)Make special units as dwarves & Elvs Civ specific, I don't see how one these two can get along together in one CIV on peace. I disagree. Just look at LotR. Dwarves and elves might have problems with each other, but they can live in peace, and even cooperate.

The healthcare civics are few, and doesen't have as interesting effects as the other civics. Perhaps you should drop them and include magic civics. These could include: *Shamanism - starting civic, no effect *Healing - health and happiness bonuses *Fertilization - extra food from farms *Alchemy - commerce from workshops, gold and production bonuses *Demonology - extra XP and shorter build time for demon units *Battle Bagic - ditto for mage units *Aquamancy - production from sea squares. Some of these bonuses could require certain buildings (e.g. Tower, Herbalist).

From my numerous hodge-podging of new civ mods I've seen the GameTextInfos.xml problems before. You don't have to modify the one that Kael did, you can simply add a new one for each civ or a complete one for all of them. For example you could have a GameTextInfos.xml for Julia of the True Elves like this:...

i already put it in like this :(
i'll pm you a screenshot of the error i got together with some of the info in the gametextinfos.xml.
first, time for some tv:)

haarbal

The mod is really playable and interresting so far. But I think that the towns have to much trouble constructing archeries,stables and so on on early game, even if in late game it is really interresting as it leads you to specialize your cities. So I think that the first units(archer,pikeman...) should not require buildings. Oh and I was about to forget: very, very good work ;-)

Super-fun mod! It reminds me of a more strategic version of Age of Wonders, I can't wait until the next version comes out.

i already put it in like this :(
i'll pm you a screenshot of the error i got together with some of the info in the gametextinfos.xml.
first, time for some tv:)

haarbal

Bugger. How did you make the civs? Did you make them separate and then add them to FfH or did you simply try adding them directly?

Hmmm, dinner and TV sound good right now. I'll look into it later as well.

First off, I’ve just got to do the obligatory “wow” statement and note how impressed I am by this mod, especially considering that CIV is so new.

I just wanted to note something I didn’t see elsewhere on the posts (forgive me if I missed it). I love the idea of the golems, powerful and non limited units that do not gain experience, but there are a few difficulties I have with them.
1) The first issue is simply mechanical. The stone golem costs the same (400 hammers) as the iron golem. I’m guessing that he was only supposed to cost 200 hammers.

2) I’d like to have access to these interesting units earlier in the game, and have a reason for making the lesser golems. If golem mastery was made available earlier, before everyone is likely to have iron working, then copper and stone golems might actually be useful. I like having arcane lore as a prerequisite, but perhaps arcane lore could come earlier, only requiring writing instead of literature for instance. I’m also not sure why arcane lore needs initiative as a requisite. If arcane lore was moved up this way, stone golems could require the stone or marble resource and be in play fairly early. Copper golems would show up around the time of axemen. This might make them a bit overpowered, so perhaps their cost should be raised. Iron golems should be fine as they are. Just a thought, but I noticed everyone was talking about how all the neat units can only be built fairly late in the game.

3) The mithril tech could allow mithril golems. I think this was being saved for a wonder, but it would be a nice addition to the high end units. If it follows the standard pattern established, it would have a strength of 16, +50% vs. city, immune to disease and cost 600 hammers. I’d give it a move of 2 to differentiate it, and because mithril is supposed to be light (in the Tolkien ethos anyway).

Well, that’s about it. Oh, I guess the retention of some old wonder names seemed a bit odd. Perhaps the Sistine Chappell could become something like ‘Divine Masterpiece,’ and the Taj Mahal could become ‘Seasons of Plenty,’ to reflect their actual benefit and make them seem less real world.

Thanks again for a very promising mod. You are single handedly setting back my dissertation, but it’s in a good cause.

Wallace2

Aha! I found my problem. I had dragged and dropped the files from the zip folder into the mods folder, rather than letting it extract and keeping file names. Thanks for the suggestions everyone :)

Bugger. How did you make the civs? Did you make them separate and then add them to FfH or did you simply try adding them directly?

Hmmm, dinner and TV sound good right now. I'll look into it later as well.

so far i only created the elves, to see how it would work out. I created them by using charkoal's (maybe i misspelled the name) tutorial and added them as a new civ.
i think i will start on the other civs now, because it is only a minor issue.

haarbal

Haarbal - I just finished changing Jecrell's Korean civ to a Dwarven civ. I left the LH the same, but I'll be adding this civ to FfH shortly and maybe I'll get lucky.

Llabak - Congrats!

Oops, cross post. Where are you pulling the LH pics from Haarbal? Somewhere in AoW2?

YES! They might have the Korean flag, might have a LH looking like Wang Geon, and they might be strangely colored but the Dwarves, led by Iron Fist, have actually founded the city of Rockhomme in my game. Strange how just seeing words like Dwarven Empire and cities not named Washington can make the atmosphere that much better.

YES! They might have the Korean flag, might have a LH looking like Wang Geon, and they might be strangely colored but the Dwarves, led by Iron Fist, have actually founded the city of Rockhomme in my game. Strange how just seeing words like Dwarven Empire and cities not named Washington can make the atmosphere that much better.

:P cool
you've got mail!

and could you please send me a mail with city names from those civIII mods, cause i dont feel like installing civIII+exp. again much :P.

i also had the idea for some more civs.
civs that are conquered/loyal towards another civ, to keep the religion<>race thing intact.
split the elves into High Elves and Wood Elves (morrowind), add the nomads to the humans, goblins to the dwarves, dark elves to the undead and something like the 'devoured' as a slave civ to the overlords :p
so that already makes 10 civs and in scenarios you can give the 'leader-civs' the holy city+their loyal following civ+the holy city.
some neutral civs would also be nice (the cat-like thingies from morrowind for example)

haarbal

I just answered my own question about HOMM heh. The opening music is a derivative from heroes and might and magic IV. Awesome :D

Haarbal - I'm looking through my folders but can't locate the damn city names for CivIII. :) I'll keep looking since I know I've seen them before. They might be in the biq file. I'll send them along after I find them.

We'll have to wait and see what Kael has planned, but yeah we can do scenarios with these races once we get them figured out.

OH.
MY.
GOD.

This is amazing.

Absolutely brilliant mod. I've been waiting for a mod like this to come out for a while. I haven't had a whole lot of time to stress the mod, but I'm going to start putting in some good test time soon.

Incidentally Kael, are you a fan of the (heroes of) might and magic family of games? A lot of your concepts run parallel to that game universe. Furthermore, since your mod is not commercial software, you might be able to obtain permission to use some old M&M skins and stuff.

And if you can't get permission, odds are you can get forgiveness. ;) Again, as long as this mod never sees a dime you can basically do what you want as long as you avoid plagiarism by giving proper credits.

And while I'm on the subject, if you want fantasy music, look no further than Heroes of Might and Magic IV. The "flavor" and quality of the music is comparable to the midieval period in civ4, and the game installs them conveniently as mp3s.

Love Hearoes of Might and Magic, and the old Might and Magic first person party based RPG's. I was just reading an article tonight about Heroes of Might and Magic V and I'm all excited.

Once the SDk comes out and we can actually import and export the models it would be interesting to see if anyone can convert the Heroes models into Civ 4 format. They would be perfect.

Hi, I downloaded this mod and I had a few error messages as the game was restarting. I was able to start the mod but I noticed that the civs are the same as in the original game, also I noticed that the trojan horse is actually a tank. I just want to know if this was because of some file incompatablility due to the error messages got or because this mod is in the building stages, Thanks.

There are no new civs and the Trojan Horse is currently a tank, so it is working as intended. Well.... maybe not as intended but those pieces haven't been changed yet.

The new civs will come in phase 2 (still a while off) and the new model for the Trojan horse is waiting for the SDK (supposed to release in January I think).

1.I like the ideas for the civs, but think that each civ should actually be humans, just with different city graphics.
Of course each civ should have only one possible religion.

2.and what are the armageddon spells?
UN resolutions?

Right now the current wonders are planned for armageddon spells:

Apocalypse- Kills 50% of all units, destroys 50% of all buildings, halves city populations.
Bane Divine- All Disciple branch units are reduced to Prophets.
Blight- Destroys all food improvements, destroys 75% of all food bonus’s.
Celestial Realignment- Destroys all active Armageddon spells.
Doom Inexorable- Summons Meshabber of Dis (avatar unique unit)
Enslave the Earth- Creates the Mithril Golem (avatar unique unit)
Entropy Unbound- Slowly destroys the map.
Glory Everlasting- All Demon units are killed.
Knell of Darkness- Any living units that die within the owning players borders are raised as skeletons.
Open Gate- Randomly produces demon units.

3.Will you give the archer units ranged attacks?
just the marskman?

The archers are planned to have ranged attacked, just the mages, catapalts and cannons. The marksman isn't planned to have a ranged attacked, he is planned to be able to be able to select the unit in the stack he is attacking to fight.

4.When one of my immortals dies, does it get reborn with its old experience?

Yes. And all of his promotions, levels, etc.

More fireballs!!!

and events goping to be added soon?

Fireballs should be coming Friday. Events will not be in 0.60, they are scehduled for Phase 1, but I don't have a time on them yet.

How do you get Typhoid Mary? I made the wonder for it but nothing poped out, neither could i produce it.

You're right, it was broke, fixed in 0.60. Thanks for the heads up.

First off, I’ve just got to do the obligatory “wow” statement and note how impressed I am by this mod, especially considering that CIV is so new.

I just wanted to note something I didn’t see elsewhere on the posts (forgive me if I missed it). I love the idea of the golems, powerful and non limited units that do not gain experience, but there are a few difficulties I have with them.
1) The first issue is simply mechanical. The stone golem costs the same (400 hammers) as the iron golem. I’m guessing that he was only supposed to cost 200 hammers.

You are correct, fixed in 0.60.

2) I’d like to have access to these interesting units earlier in the game, and have a reason for making the lesser golems. If golem mastery was made available earlier, before everyone is likely to have iron working, then copper and stone golems might actually be useful. I like having arcane lore as a prerequisite, but perhaps arcane lore could come earlier, only requiring writing instead of literature for instance. I’m also not sure why arcane lore needs initiative as a requisite. If arcane lore was moved up this way, stone golems could require the stone or marble resource and be in play fairly early. Copper golems would show up around the time of axemen. This might make them a bit overpowered, so perhaps their cost should be raised. Iron golems should be fine as they are. Just a thought, but I noticed everyone was talking about how all the neat units can only be built fairly late in the game.

3) The mithril tech could allow mithril golems. I think this was being saved for a wonder, but it would be a nice addition to the high end units. If it follows the standard pattern established, it would have a strength of 16, +50% vs. city, immune to disease and cost 600 hammers. I’d give it a move of 2 to differentiate it, and because mithril is supposed to be light (in the Tolkien ethos anyway).

Yeah, the art for the mithril golem is already made up but I pulled it to be a wonder like you said. To be honest I love the golem idea, and I do want "magic" based players to be able to field some melee units, but Im having a hard time figuring out exactly how to fit them in. I would like to get to a point where mages can go all the way from stiching together corpses to make frankenstein-ish flesh golems all the way up to the Mithril Golem wonder. I just need more models.

I worked through each "type" of unit. Starting with the hunter line, on to archers, melee, disciples and mages. Since the mages were last they have the most technically demanding abilities (by the time I got to them I knew how to do more) but they are also the least balanced. After the addition of fireballs they may be even more uber.

Darn, I'm having trouble getting it to load. I put it in my mod folder, right? Or do I put it somewhere else? I hope somebody's still up to answer :/

This is only the second or third mod I've downloaded, and since there were no directions given, I can't remember how to do it. Thanks.

Guess no one's up, but basically I have the same problem as Llabak did. I load the mod, it prompts a restart, I go to custom, but it's just the normal game. My CivIV init file is in the Fall from Heaven mod folder, and it's the mod folder in Program files. Is there a particular way I'm supposed to extract the files? Thanks for bearing with me...I've never had much difficult with this in the past.

Guess no one's up, but basically I have the same problem as Llabak did. I load the mod, it prompts a restart, I go to custom, but it's just the normal game. My CivIV init file is in the Fall from Heaven mod folder, and it's the mod folder in Program files. Is there a particular way I'm supposed to extract the files? Thanks for bearing with me...I've never had much difficult with this in the past.

Try putting the mod in Civ4/mods. Not the program files path.

0.60 sounds like a better X-mas present than the socks and underwear I normally get!

0.60 sounds like a better X-mas present than the socks and underwear I normally get!

:lol: :rotfl:

I'm looking forward to it as well... :D

Still playing the Mod, but haven't found anything new to report that hasn't been mentioned yet... :goodjob:

I'm with DragonLord. I'm still playing, but haven't noticed anything that hasn't already been said. Once v0.6 comes out we'll have lots of things to talk about.

- If not discovered by a human Veil and Order come to life far too late - it happened I waited over 150 turns after development of three 'basic' religions since the AI adopted one of those...

The spread rate of the Ashen Veil and the Order have been increased to account for their late start. They are only 1 tech further into the tree than the others if you drive straight to them, but of course the techs order is so loose that how long it takes any particular player to get to them varies wildly.

- The idea of Monotheism seems to be a problem. We have a pantheon of gods who somehow relate to each other and even influence the mortals, yet a whole group of people decides not to believe in the existance of the other gods? If the followers of Order would disregard the existance of Veil it would make their 'crusade' rather pointless. It's just like a group of ancient greeks who would cease to believe in existance of other gods so they could concentrate on following Zeus only. Just a thought.

You and your cursed logic! :-)

Your right, I will have to look at making some world specific relgion tech names when I tighten the tech tree.

Guess no one's up, but basically I have the same problem as Llabak did. I load the mod, it prompts a restart, I go to custom, but it's just the normal game. My CivIV init file is in the Fall from Heaven mod folder, and it's the mod folder in Program files. Is there a particular way I'm supposed to extract the files? Thanks for bearing with me...I've never had much difficult with this in the past.

In your c:\program files\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Mods\ folder you should have the following folders:

American Revolution
Desert War
Fall From Heaven
Greek World
Tutorial

The Fall from Heaven folder is a straight extract of everything that was in the zipped folder. It should have a Fall from Heaven.ini and an assets folders in it.

Note: You can't just place the compressed file in the mod directory, even though you can browse into it the game won't be able to read from it.

First, Kael, this mod is the best I've seen and played so far. I'm a real fantasy freak so thanks for this!:thanx:

I haven't found any bug that hasn't been already mentionend. So here are some ideas for this mod:

1) The religions. It always happend that I found one religion and an other AI civ the remaining religions. This gets a bit boring because then there are only two great religions: the mine and the of the AI.:cry:

2) The priests. Not only the disciples but also the priests should be able to spread religion.

3) The tech tree. It is confusing (also for the AI) because sometimes I have to decide between fifteen or so techs.:crazyeye: Also you research the techs to fast in the mittle (only three turns for each).

4) Some Wonders. The special wonders for the religions like Yggdrasil and the Mines of Gal-Dur should only be built by the civs following these religion.

5) More religious units. This makes it funnier because of the difference between the religions.

6) The civics. Some of then are too modern (Free Religion, Represantation) or simply don't fit to some religions (Sacrifice the Weak -> the fellowship or Liberty -> The Order?).:sad:

7) Bonuses. The Religions have special effects.
The Runes can pass the Mountains and build
roads on them.
The Fellowship can't cut forests and jungels
but these fields give more food or something like that.
The Order can draftunits without unhappyness.
The Ashen Veil can sacrifice populaion to boost
production without unhappyness.
The Octopus Overlords can build naval units,
harbours and lighthouses much faster.

These are my ideas for the game and I hope you like them and I hope that they are possible. Great work! Keep it up!:goodjob:

Hiya Kael checking in again.

Slight qualm about gameplay...tiny one actually...

-> Hunters cost a lot less than Dwarven Warriors, but they have the same attack and a greater movement. They have different benefits(i.e. the Dwarfs can be sacrificed for production), but surely the main purpose of the warrior is to fight, and to be quite honest in a war situation i find that a Hunter is much more quickly produced and faster to get where it is needed, so i build them instead of Dwarf Warriors. In summary, Dwarves are more expensive than Hunters but arent as good in combat, and i think it is strange that a civ following Runes of Kilmorph would produce hunters rather than the religions Unique Unit. Just pointing this out, im afraid i cant suggest a solution- sorry, im just the critic! hehe

mrkingkong

First, Kael, this mod is the best I've seen and played so far. I'm a real fantasy freak so thanks for this!:thanx:

I haven't found any bug that hasn't been already mentionend. So here are some ideas for this mod:

1) The religions. It always happend that I found one religion and an other AI civ the remaining religions. This gets a bit boring because then there are only two great religions: the mine and the of the AI.:cry:

I haven't had this experience. All of the religons do tend to be in the same branch of the tree so I can see how this would be possible. When I go to tighten the tree I will look at seperating this out a bit more.

2) The priests. Not only the disciples but also the priests should be able to spread religion.

This will be included in 0.60

3) The tech tree. It is confusing (also for the AI) because sometimes I have to decide between fifteen or so techs.:crazyeye: Also you research the techs to fast in the mittle (only three turns for each).

The tech tree does need cleaned up. I don't mind having tech's people can grab fast. That way everyone eventually comes to the same point, but your choices are around where do you want to go first, and how will it benifit you.

4) Some Wonders. The special wonders for the religions like Yggdrasil and the Mines of Gal-Dur should only be built by the civs following these religion.

A few people have mentioned this. Currently the wonder is in a tech behind the relgion giving tech. Both the religion giving tech and the wonder giving tech are useless if you arent the first to discover (they dont continue on to anything). This seemed to me like a big enough incentive to give the founding civ a big lead to the wonder, while still allowing it to be open to those who spend enough to earn it.

I will think about it.

5) More religious units. This makes it funnier because of the difference between the religions.

I definitly want this, they are in the orgional design doc. I just ran out of models (and I want to give flavor to every unit, and I dont have that in some of the one's that are in the game). There will be more down the road.

6) The civics. Some of then are too modern (Free Religion, Represantation) or simply don't fit to some religions (Sacrifice the Weak -> the fellowship or Liberty -> The Order?).:sad:

This will be improved in 0.60.

7) Bonuses. The Religions have special effects.
The Runes can pass the Mountains and build
roads on them.
The Fellowship can't cut forests and jungels
but these fields give more food or something like that.
The Order can draftunits without unhappyness.
The Ashen Veil can sacrifice populaion to boost
production without unhappyness.
The Octopus Overlords can build naval units,
harbours and lighthouses much faster.

These are my ideas for the game and I hope you like them and I hope that they are possible. Great work! Keep it up!:goodjob:

Those are all good ideas. I look at what it will take to doi it, or something like it.

I like the bonuses Black Whole mentioned as well. At the rate the ideas are coming there will be a v0.7 before any of the Phases. :p

Still need a good audio clips for the following spells being cast:

- Fireball
- Meteor Swarm
- Entangle
- Summon Demon
- Summon Fire Elemental
- Bless
- Cure Disease
- Entangle
- Vitalize
- Escape

In your c:\program files\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Mods\ folder you should have the following folders:

American Revolution
Desert War
Fall From Heaven
Greek World
Tutorial

The Fall from Heaven folder is a straight extract of everything that was in the zipped folder. It should have a Fall from Heaven.ini and an assets folders in it.

Note: You can't just place the compressed file in the mod directory, even though you can browse into it the game won't be able to read from it.

That might be the problem. I don't have a Fall From Heaven.ini. Nope, not there, nomatter how many times I extract the files. Maybe a faulty download? Let me download the archived files again from a different server. That's one thing I havn't done. By the way, I do have all the other scenarios in that folder and they do indeed work. Thanks for the help.

Sending you some clips that may be useful- did you use the others, BTW?

mrkingkong

Still need a good audio clips for the following spells being cast:

- Fireball
- Meteor Swarm
- Entangle
- Summon Demon
- Summon Fire Elemental
- Bless
- Cure Disease
- Entangle
- Vitalize
- Escape

I got sounds for u, but i can't upload 'em as attachments :cry: Maybe i can contact u via msn messenger ?

I downloaded the whole thing again but still no FallfromHeaven.init. It IS supposed to com with the downloaded files, right?

I downloaded the whole thing again but still no FallfromHeaven.init. It IS supposed to com with the downloaded files, right?

Its definitly in there. It is 'Fall from Heaven.ini'.

I could not find if it was reported yet or not.

I just played my first game with this mod.
There is a little bug with the Berserkers unit.


Berserkers: (Melee) A powerful melee unit that causes a small amount of collateral damage to all other units in the opponents stack. A Bear Totem and Iron is required to train them and a civilization can only have 3 Berserkers at once.


I was able to build like 25 of them.

But otherwise .. great mod

Ok, here u go, Kael, all sounds u wanted (http://www.upload2.net/download2/qUlf1hVD0eN08Na/sounds.zip.html) :crazyeye:

I could not find if it was reported yet or not.

I just played my first game with this mod.
There is a little bug with the Berserkers unit.



I was able to build like 25 of them.

But otherwise .. great mod

Doh! Fixed in 0.60. Thanks for the heads up.

Ok, here u go, Kael, all sounds u wanted (http://www.upload2.net/download2/qUlf1hVD0eN08Na/sounds.zip.html) :crazyeye:

Thanks to you and MrKIngKong, Im checking out all the sounds right now.

That's just creepy. I downloaded it three different times from three different servers. Everytime, no ini. file, period. All the assets are there... but no ini. What on earth could be the cause of that?

Performing a search now...nope, no luck.

Performing a search now...nope, no luck.

I just downloaded it fresh and its definitly there. The root of the file has a 'Fall from Heaven' and 'Readme.rtf' file in it. That 'Fall from Heaven' folder is what needs to be copied into your 'Mod' directory. The 'Fall from Heaven' folder has an 'assets' folder and the 'Fall from Heaven.ini' file in it.