When I say the Manhatten Project, I mean is it worth it to research it? When you consider that the person who finish researching it gives it to EVERYONE, wouldint it make more sense to wait untill someone finishes it, then start making it yourself? It doesnt even give culture/+GP.

Because the AI almost never builds it, so if you want to use nukes, you need to make it. ;)

It depends on if you have space race victory enabled or not. If you have, the game will be over before you have a chance to use it. If not, then it's useful if your worst enemies have no access to Uranium or is behind in tech.

It's friggin useless anyway because nukes have such a small life span. Somebody is always trying to ban nukes or build SDI.

At least the ban of nukes you can use to your own advantage ;)

In my current game I was the first to be able to build nukes. So at the time when the ban got enacted I already hat maybe 10-12 nukes within my cities
whereas the only other civ (the chinese) which was able to build nukes till this time only has maybe 2 of them :D

At least the ban of nukes you can use to your own advantage ;)

In my current game I was the first to be able to build nukes. So at the time when the ban got enacted I already hat maybe 10-12 nukes within my cities
whereas the only other civ (the chinese) which was able to build nukes till this time only has maybe 2 of them :D


However the ban also stops the USE of nukes, so the ban is only useful to you if it gets removed.

However the ban also stops the USE of nukes, so the ban is only useful to you if it gets removed.

Nope, the ban only prohibits you from building new ICBMs,
but it doesn´t stop the use of those already built ;)
(just tested it for myself, because I wasn´t sure about it)

Nukes are a total waste of time. By the time you have enough ICBMs to do anything everybody worth nuking, including yourself, already has the SDI wonder, and probably a fallout shelter in every city. With a 75% interception rate with the SDI and a 75% reduction in damage from the fallout shelter ICBMs become a big waste of hammers. Build tanks instead.

This is true of course,
I only build them because I don´t know if there might not be a hidden "my words are backed by nuclear weapons"-effect, just like in Civ I :D
but I would use them only on rare occasions because of the nuclear fallout and possible negative effects on diplomatic relations to other civs,
as you already said, the nations which really count (i.e. the nations which have a tech level similar to yourself) will normally also have the SDI-Wonder built and probably have nuclear shelters for most if not all of their cities.

Ugh, it would have been better if Civ 4 let you have at least one nuke when you research it.... I personally believe it should be a national wonder with no sharing. That way, it keeps with the "tech race" feel of it. SDI should be more expensive too > : |

Yeah, SDI is annoying. Here in real life, we're still decades away from a working SDI, yet we've had a dangerous level of nuclear capability since the 50's. I liked how it was dead last in the tech tree in Civ3.

I agree -- nukes should be reworked. They are in the game almost for formalities sake. They are neutralized almost as soon as you get them.

I really enjoyed the more drawn out nuke process of Civ 3 ...at first, with the short range missles, which made subs all the more killer fun! Then too, what of cruise missles? AT the very least, subs should have city defense bombard after rocketry...

I also agree ..a national wonder is much more appropriate. Many countries didn't develop nukes until at least 20 years after the US, and less developed nations like India only in the last 10 years... and others are still trying.

And yes, SDI should come later.

And, does anyone live in a city right now where you feel comfortable that it would only suffer 25% damage from a nuclear attack?! I think the fallout shelters are crazy in power and totally unrealistic.

Yeah, SDI is annoying. Here in real life, we're still decades away from a working SDI, yet we've had a dangerous level of nuclear capability since the 50's. I liked how it was dead last in the tech tree in Civ3.

Yes but in real life, buiding a spaceship to Alpha Centauri is a long way off too :) .
In previous versions of Civ the accepted wisdom was that it was better to let someone else build it and I haven't seen any reason in Civ 4 to change that, but I tend not to wage many modern era wars, I just build enough tanks, mech. inf. and MAs to take out any surprise invasions.

I agree -- nukes should be reworked. They are in the game almost for formalities sake. They are neutralized almost as soon as you get them.

I really enjoyed the more drawn out nuke process of Civ 3 ...at first, with the short range missles, which made subs all the more killer fun! Then too, what of cruise missles? AT the very least, subs should have city defense bombard after rocketry...

I also agree ..a national wonder is much more appropriate. Many countries didn't develop nukes until at least 20 years after the US, and less developed nations like India only in the last 10 years... and others are still trying.

And yes, SDI should come later.

And, does anyone live in a city right now where you feel comfortable that it would only suffer 25% damage from a nuclear attack?! I think the fallout shelters are crazy in power and totally unrealistic.

Actually I think it really Should be a World Wonder, because that allows a 'MAD' strategy to balance nuclear weapons, (although it does need to give some bonus to the builder perhaps an initial nuke)

Because if MP is a National Wonder, then a tech rush to nukes (if nukes are really made decent) is too easy. However if it is a World Wonder, and nukes are available with the smae tech it is, then no one will probably be able to have a nuclear monopoly (which means that MAD becomes a valid way to balance nukes)

one would have to then include a 'nuclear modifier' to the AI's chance of attacking (it become less likely to declare war on someone with nukes (depending on how many/what level nukes they have) or someone who is allied with someone with nukes It also means that a nonuclear AI should value a defensive pact with a nuclear power more.... the penalty gets reduced/removed once Bomb shelters and SDI are built...the bomb shelters being less effective and the SDI more high tech/expensive)

What if the Manhattan project gives the city that builds a 100% bonus building of nukes. It would be easy enough to add in, its just like the heroic epic only for nues instead of military units. Its a nice bonus, without being game breaking.

And now for something completly different!
In my game, nuke are banned, and i am really trying to change that (i am the UN chairman), how can i do that!?
They always vote for the ban, and i am against.

That´s easy (in theory :D)
Just wage successful wars against the other civs
until the sum of the population of all other civs in the game
is less than the population of your own civ.

Et voila,
there won´t be a majority of votes anymore,
who oppose your wishes :D