Just like the Top Secret War Room for MIA, this is not to discuss whether or not to attack TNT, but to plan it out if we so desire to attack.

Some thoughts-
How many galleys?
How many GS?
General attack routes?
Plan for countering immortals?

Also some geeks with combat calculating and town capturing probability toys could be a big help.

This needs a :bump: I'd think.

First thing we'll need is some intell.

The second thing we need is an navy. I'd say a minimum of six galleys.

First thing we'll need is some intell.

The second thing we need is an navy. I'd say a minimum of six galleys.I'm workin' on it. Harbors are gently being short-rushed. A galley is in the queue. Latest log is in the "Department of Turnplay" thread.

The second thing we need is an navy. I'd say a minimum of six galleys.

Is that the necessary number before operations begin or as our stratigic goal?

Depending on the overall battle plan, it would seem that three galleys would be enough to begin ferrying troops across the gap and keep an eye on likely avenues of approach.

Of course, I am assuming that we will be engaged in some major unit operations. If our only goal is pillaging and hitting soft targets of oportunity, then six would be necessary.

I think the advantage of having 6 boats is some can blockade the waterways. If they can only use coastal tiles to reach us then they have to go through us to get to us. Their coastal cities will have to be focused 100% on galley manufacturing (without a GA) and my guess is many of these cities don't have a harbor either. I will try to get a map up unless someone else can now.

Dropping off and picking up GS with regular and injured galleys then blockading and short trips to the gap with vet galleys. In naval warfare regular (injured) galleys would become the transports while the vet galleys can do double time by blockading, protecting and threatening even without cargo inside. There are a lot of possibilities when we control the seas.

@Whomp

Makes sense. I am traditionally a land-oriented warior in my SGs; the navy is there to get my troops on the ground (Sorry admiral...).

Based on your description I see the wisdom of awaiting six galleys for the multitude of threats they allow us to weild.

I can't wait to put a deep hurting on TNT :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

think about the declaration of war and the visible troops when we do it. the bigger the SoD, the bigger the suprise.

I think a pile of eight GS and four cats/trebs would put the fear o' God in anyone, especially if directed by Sir B and 'slinger and scout. It would certainly make me stop and catch my breath.

And then being able to carry a steady stream of reinforcement.....

So that makes six galleys a tactical requirement I think, unless the shipping distance is such we can have four do the work of six....

As scout always preaches - amateurs talk tactics, professionals talk logistics. I am thinking of reinforcements for our beach head. Eventually we will want to build a city so we can unload and attack the same turn. So we may want to have a settler in the second wave.

I thought six galleys so we could have 12 units in the initial wave.

Bugs their coastal tundra city (ivory and furs) may be at size 2 by the time we attack and did not have a garrison when our curragh past last time so we may be able to use that city as our beachhead as well.

I think I need to get a copy of the save or find a screen shot of that area.

These were as of turn 105.
Here are my attempts at a map. They have zero cities on the west coast and only these 3 coastals....

http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/7283/tnt37vh.jpg

Here's the distance from our coast to Furbomb.

http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/1641/tnt7lr.jpg

Here's the distance to their biggest coastal.

http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/8209/tnt29ge.jpg

Some jungle cities show borders here.

http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/2639/tnt44xb.jpg


My guess is the capital is on settler pump mode. We should watch this.

Scoutsout wondered in Diplo for Doughnut thread (http://http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=131004&page=11) how much effort we should actually put in this war.

Yessir, my point is we should not stay stuck in a position where we have to ship reinforcements multiple times but go for a really quick and heavy first strike and, as you pointed out, take as much as we can in a few rounds. The optimal size of SoD would be enough to make TNT believe we could cripple them big time, but not neccesarily doing it all the way.The whole mission would be completed in good time before the peace with MIA expires and we would have all our troops back ('cept for possible garrison if we don't raze).

I agree with this, unless things turn out to be much easier than expected.

Holy cow where'd this thread come from??? now I have to read some more.

EDIT:: finished reading and I need to say woo hoo...

Also, why not build galleys in some of the other cities. right now we have 5 harbors in construction. Is all of them necessary or could we get 2 galleys instead of 1 harbor?

Here's a thought... we know TNT and MIA are on friendly terms. If we were to delay attacking TNT until we wanted a fight with MIA... we could send just enough of a stack of doom against TNT to make them start squawking to their allies... just enough of an invasion to make TNT do the "chicken little" routine...

...this might make MIA think that we've committed substantial forces to an invasion...and might bait them into something stupid.

That is a veeeery cool thought :cool: . If we are not that concerned about cutting TNT down completely it doesn't matter if they have gained some strength by then. Am I right by saying that the success of this op depends on whether we get to MT before The Dead or not?

It's an interesting thought, but our window of opportunity is too small I'm afraid. Soon muskets will start to appear.

The ideal landing point is a hill. THe only hill next to a city I sse is up next to Carpetbomb. From there we can attack two cities with our GS.

Of course we would want to raze both of those cities.

I agree with Tubby that two galleys are better than a harbor so that we can get over there before the window of opportunity closes.

If this is a short term war, we won't have to worry about reinforcements.

If we going to hit before they get powder our window is a peephole and we better get there fast. How many turns before they/MIA gets it and are TNT lucky enough to have a source roaded when it appears? One option is going there and face the muskets, but with a bigger stack. Then again losing units in republic is a bummer, but...being religious Idiots we could always swap to Monarchy before we strike

plant a city 3w of frozen lake. Initial landing is with 3 galleys. 1 settler. 3GS, 2 trebs. rush walls.

then marshal the forces for the attack on MIA :devil:

bugs, are you overthinking this? let them come to us.

plant a city 3w of frozen lake. Initial landing is with 3 galleys. 1 settler. 3GS, 2 trebs. rush walls.

then marshal the forces for the attack on MIA :devil:

bugs, are you overthinking this? let them come to us. But will TNT come to us? I bet they won't. My guess is we could plant 5 cities over there, and they would spit and cuss and tell us to p-off, but attacking....no.

But will TNT come to us? I bet they won't. My guess is we could plant 5 cities over there, and they would spit and cuss and tell us to p-off, but attacking....no.Doen't matter if they come to us or not. Whomp has convinced me that they need their butts kicked. And in honor of the event (and all their rule 2.4 stupidity) I am going to re-name the first 6 Gallic Swords headed their way...

"General Purposes".

I think that the city that AK is talking about is a great location for Coinich's city name suggestion Spite. He requested to wait until a city would tick off a neighbor. And if someone planted a city on our half of the continent, I would be ticked.

So unless there are other worries about it, I think that Spite should be it's name.

Doen't matter if they come to us or not. Whomp has convinced me that they need their butts kicked. And in honor of the event (and all their rule 2.4 stupidity) I am going to re-name the first 6 Gallic Swords headed their way...

"General Purposes".
What I ment was that TNT won't come after us, and if they don't, no GA will be triggered and no MIA will come to rescue them. I took it one of the main reasons for attacking TNT (besides entertainment :D) was to get a GA which could be used for a build up before we go south. I still think a fast, hard hit on one or two TNT cities will do a better job. Enough units to scare 'em good, trigger our GA and poiny stick some goodies, but not enough to leave our home turf open for a MIA attack. Of course we could send a settler and build a village anyway, but that would be for having a landing spot when the real ramalama begins. In fact, I think we have enough GS's by now and should start Horsemen for upping to Cavs.

In fact, I think we have enough GS's by now and should start Horsemen for upping to Cavs.
We may want Donut to hold off on giving us Chiv for this very reason. Upgrades to knights then cavs sounds like a good plan.

Due to increasing tension with MIA, I feel it extremely unwise to embark on an overseas campaign at this juncture. I propose we put the plan to invade TNT on hold indefinitely, and get serious about planning against MIA.

Comments? Discussion?

Here's why things are getting ugly again....

BTW AK and I stole a word we saw Bede use in a rant recently (guess which one) :D and we're not sure if we put it in proper context.
Here's the recent exchange between Fe3333au to Scout (who shouldn't have to deal with this garbage) and myself.

Fearius III,

We would ask that you re-examine this proposal, and compare it to the line that you proposed in your "Straight Up Peace" proposal. Then put yourselves in our position, and ask yourselves if you would feel as though you were being dealt with in good faith.

This map, from what I can tell, is your original map so if it's rubbish it's your rubbish and then you're embarrassing yourself. Your team is being pusillanimous and really we're pretty tired of the whole thing.

My suggestion is we take this literally down to bare bones and simply make peace for 30 turns. No frills, no strings and no borders except the neutral zone in between our jungle lux cities.

I've cc'd Admiral Kutzov so you can converse with him while I'm out of town.

Regards,
Whomp

Hi Scoutsout of the KISS.

Received Whomp's latest ... Please don't waste our time with rubbish proposals, this whole scenario is dragging on too long !!! ... your latest makes it impossible to access the eastern fisheries :nono:

Sorry if this is a curt response, but the process is frustrating and sending an option that is clearly unreasonable or mistaken is a waste of our respective times.

We only want to create a fair and equal split !!!

Please check you map instructions because the beginning of the eastern section does not make sense and I choose not to second guess.


I. Beginning Point of the Eastern Border
Start on East Mountain tile ... then tile jump to E, NE, which is designated the Eastern Tile.
The Northern tip of the Eastern Tile is where the border line begins.

II. The Eastern Border
From the Eastern Beginning Point draw a line SW x 2, the Northern tip of the East Mountain.


:wallbash: according to us it is the eastern tip of East Mountain NOT northern !!!!


:hammer: OK ... what was wrong with our latest :confused:

Please use it as a guide ... it is fair and everyone can access their respective fisheries !!!!

Regards and Lets get this thing moving !!!!

Feaurius III the Frustrated of the MIA

@whomp, pusillanimous means "lacking courage", if not quite downright yellow.

I still think we should go after TNT, but of course not before a peace deal with MIA is signed. If they sign it, they won't stab us (my guess). I never really got that tile swapping part of the line, but it seems MIA got it and got it bad. Kiss, make up and sign that darn paper.

If you guys really want me to go after TNT, I will. I only ask that you consider the following: With this goes the risk attendant to any war Taking territory over there is a different matter from holding it. Mark my words, a significant military committment will be necessary. In the long-term, we will have a settlement on the same continent at 'nuts. Goes to my previous comment.At this writing we have 2 Gallic Swords in a Galley off the coast of the other continent. Landing them on the other continent will not take us past the point of no return. I will put it to the team; if you guys want me to prosecute a war against TNT, please help settle the following: What is our military objective? Is it simply to start a GA, and do as much damage as we can until a peace treaty? Is it to grab a luxury town, and defend it until peace is signed? Do you want TNT eliminated from the game altogether? Beancounters and strategists especially: What is an appropriate level of committment to this campaign? Any and all thoughts would be appreciated. My biggest concern is that we do not get over-committed, or spread ourselves too thin. We will have to fight MIA sooner or later; mark it.

Military objective is, IMIO, to start GA, do damage enough to scare 'em and hopefully pointy stick some goodies...then sign peace and leave. All this should be done in a few turns so we can land a scary-ish SoD and fast as a NY sec ship it back home because MIA will certainly consider moving in (if we haven't signed peace). It shouldn't be about holding ground at all. Just razing one or two cities.

@Scout
this is a conv. with fe I just had. Sorry for not editing, but I'm in ahurry. He'll pm you.
fe3333au: Hey Daghie
sixpackholiday: hiya
fe3333au: how is your mum ... any better?
sixpackholiday: no...worse again :-(
fe3333au: I am so sorry
sixpackholiday: yeah, too bad, bad it seems she kinda lost interest in getting any better
fe3333au: maybe her time?
sixpackholiday: could be. i get the impression she's decided she's done enough, so...
fe3333au: try to stay positive ...
sixpackholiday: and if you fail in doing that, you've got probs...and she has
sixpackholiday: anyway, what happened about the line thing
fe3333au: oh OK
fe3333au: I sent a latest version ... which gave both sides access to the fisheries ... one east
and one west
fe3333au: then I get another proposal from KISS that ignored that
fe3333au: and the instructions were wrong ... so couldn't even work out what your
proposal was
fe3333au: I admit I sent a message to get clarification and it was written very frustrating cos
we seem to be not really communicating properly
fe3333au: and the turns are rushing with 24 hour turn around
fe3333au: the reply I got ... didn't address the fact that you guys sent a proposal with errors
in it and therefore I couldn't work out what the border actually was
fe3333au: so what is the story with you guys?
sixpackholiday: ok
fe3333au: I admit I could have used better words ... but it is very frustrating cos my last
border was fair to both of us
sixpackholiday: About the specifics of said line, i've kinda kept a low profile because the
reasoning around it is too elaborate for this idiot
sixpackholiday: i say "keep it fair enough and sign peace"
sixpackholiday: It's allright to be frustrated sometimes W
fe3333au: I know :-D
fe3333au: But for this peace to work ... we need to agree on a fair border!
sixpackholiday: I don't think anyone on our team spends as much time on this as you do,
so maybe the puzzeling part on our behalf is due to not reading closely enough
fe3333au: Your idea may have been fair ... but the instructions were ****ed up ..
sixpackholiday: that was not intentionally i'm sure
sixpackholiday: albeit frustrating
fe3333au: but the last letter was out of line !
sixpackholiday: what was that?
fe3333au: didn't address the fact that your instructions were flawed
fe3333au: So my question is ... what was wrong with the last border I proposed?
sixpackholiday: Oh, i have to go through the pieces to have a say about that, and i won't. It
is pretty much W's and Scouts baby, even if i back them of course (not backing messing up
though, hehe)
sixpackholiday: I'm sure they will take a closer look and make a constructive move
sixpackholiday: as i said, to me the picking of individual tiles ain't that important
sixpackholiday: peace is heavier
fe3333au: well ... how long are we to stay in this limbo?
sixpackholiday: i couldn't say. not for long i hope. look, this is not a stalling trick. it's just
haggling and maybe some lil **** up
sixpackholiday: i think we both want the peace to come in effect
fe3333au: I understand the **** up ... but we need to work it out now ... cos the
non-aggression gentleman's agreement has run out this turn ... so we are getting very twitchy
sixpackholiday: aha, I see :-)
fe3333au: The turns are going too fast ... we need to slow it down ... even if it means
holding the game up
sixpackholiday: well, i guess you're still strong vs us, so we would be suicidal to jump you
right now
fe3333au: No one wants war ... but at the moment we are in a 'cold war' scenario LOL
fe3333au: So can we get this agreed to before the next turn?
sixpackholiday: since i'm not the one in charge of this negotiation....sorry, can't say....but i
hope so
sixpackholiday: but i see your worries
sixpackholiday: and i guess you wouldn't just relax even if i told you to, lol
fe3333au: problem is that it is not just me ... I am but the mouth piece!
sixpackholiday: i know
fe3333au: So do we hold up the game until this is sorted ?
sixpackholiday: i'm not sure admins would see it as a valid reason, but we could use as
much time as possible for every turn we play
sixpackholiday: but that is of course not good enough, haha
fe3333au: So what was wrong with the last proposal I sent? ... you got eastern fisheries and
we get the western?
fe3333au: You also got the aestern Mountain
fe3333au: *eastern
sixpackholiday: please W, i haven't gone through the details because it was too pickish for
me. I've said "figure out what is best for team, and do what you can", then i went back to
bullshitting/spamming
fe3333au: lol
sixpackholiday: watch out for W when he logs in and do the details
fe3333au: Whomp in Mexico for a week
sixpackholiday: Oh my, well, i'll post this and we'll see who takes it up
fe3333au: Scoutsout must make a decision and also take the full day to take turn
sixpackholiday: from our point of view there is no immediate hurry because we're not
planning on any war activities since you would be impossible to whack with those cheap
Hoppies and us being weaker...
sixpackholiday: it would be a wall bash
sixpackholiday: i'll address scout
fe3333au: OK ... but we really do need movement and for him to tripple check instructions
before they are sent
sixpackholiday: and you're out-shielding us too
fe3333au: thankyou for compliment :-)
sixpackholiday: stating the facts
sixpackholiday: you've done one helluva job down south
fe3333au: You doing well too ... especially the friendship with Nuts ;-)
sixpackholiday: LOL
fe3333au: Also congrats on the newspaper ... very well presented and very humourous
sixpackholiday: thanks
sixpackholiday: i love that provo/elvis pic
fe3333au: LOL
sixpackholiday: gotta get to work
sixpackholiday: later friend
fe3333au: so do I resnd our lastest ... or wait for your responce?
fe3333au: I want this sorted by next turn !!! :-D
sixpackholiday: wait a lil while and see if scout/someone gets in touch soon. otherwise
bang the door
sixpackholiday: (not too hard..please)
fe3333au: I'll PM scoutsout
sixpackholiday: good thing
fe3333au: and pigeons only peck LOL
sixpackholiday: haha
fe3333au: ok .. cya ... and stay strong
sixpackholiday: cya...i will
fe3333au: talk to me anytime ... I have lost both parents

@Scout
this is a conv. with fe I just had. Sorry for not editing, but I'm in ahurry. He'll pm you.I rather hope not. I'm really not interested in any more out-of-game contact with him or MIA after the tone he took with me in his last PM. If that's what passes for "Diplomacy" down there in MIA land, it's time we taught them some manners.

If he's your friend, tell him it is unwise to insult the one whose hand rests on the hilt of his team's swords. I should hope none of our diplomats would speak to Kuningas or Chamnix in that way. (But they can insult Dinsog all they want.)

WE may want to explain the difference between "Reference Points" and "Points of Beginning" to these yahoos. Other than that we do want to stall them......

Scout, if you thinking that we shouldn't go to war vs TNT then I'll defer to your judgement. Especially after you have played a few saves and know the situation.

My thoughts and I'm no war-monger.... If MIA comes after us, I think that you have laid out a good plan of defending ourselves. TNT will attack us or the nuts as soon as they get a chance. The two scientific civs are attempting to run away with the science race. (MIA focusing on military when they needn't be, will help in our attempt to keep pace).
war is fun and I'd like to threaten TNT to see what they'll give up.

:hmm: I read the entire conversation between Daggie and Werner (fe) and it seems as though they are still in cold war stance. IE. Troop build up. Their unit support has to be killing them soon.

If we are going to do a worker swap I would make it with the 'Nutters. Let MIA twist in the wind and keep building their military, or build their economy, but not both.

Okay - I hope my previous posts didn't sound too squeamish... and I hate the back-and-forth between this thread and the MIA thread...

I do see the benefits of whacking TNT, and starting our Golden Age in the process. What I do not see is the wisdom of attacking TNT while our relations with MIA have become tense. As I see it, these are our best options: Sign some sort of a border treaty with MIA, and whack TNT. I have thoughts on this. Dotmap to follow. Maintain "cold war" relations with MIA, and scrap the plan to invade TNT altogether. Stall for a few more turns...and keep everybody guessing. I view this as a short term option.We need to make a strategic decision here...and I would really appreciate input... from "Grumpy's" and "Idiots" alike.

My personal preference: Sign an accord with MIA and go whack TNT. In the long haul, I expect the 'nutters to roll over any investment we make in the other continent. I want the ivory long enough to put the pieces together to push MIA into the sea, and I want the Golden Age to help put us in a position to do just that.

I'm with you scout... I think that a 40-50 turn peace deal is enough for a smack down on battle isle. Then we should have a leader (hopefully two) that we can make into armies on our island.

The GA could move us ahead in the tech field (assuming that we get more libraries) and have some trebs and maybe a run at the Knights Templar or Sun Tsu's.

If we can get a 40-50 turn peace deal, I would throw everything we had at TNT for a severe blow and see if we can bring in a dogpile. I would also keep everything we captured in that scenario.

If we can't get such a peace deal, we might want to try a phony war to draw MIA in.
1. Make a very small (3 unit) landing in TNT land.
2. Have several vessels off the TNT coast that look like they may hold a large number of units but don't. Sort of a demonstration.
3. TNT reports to MIA that the Idiots have bitten at their bait.
4. MIA declares and... lo and behold... where did all these units come from. :D

:woohoo: war!!!!

These shouldn't need a great deal of explanation...

119808

119809

Oh dear; an invasion.... http://67.18.37.17/2135/53/emo/hammerhead.gif

Can they see you ?

Can they see you ?Not...yet. :devil:

Well we'll have their fur on fire on the first turn of the war.

Excellent names for the GS btw.

unless they rush something else, that pike will be done before we can attack (116g for 29 shields). I hope we have more to party with :banana:

I say NO attacking TNT without a signed peace w MIA in the first place.

There are 2 more GS on our side of the straight awaiting transport

I say NO attacking TNT without a signed peace w MIA in the first place.
TNT border in furbomb expands in 2T, so let's get our business with MIA done quickly! Hopefully, they don't have an MPP with TNT that will supercede our treaty :hmm:

Monday mornign quaqterbacking...

The GS can rush and reach fur in two turns - except they will see us on the border.

If we put them both on the Galley, then move the galley S-SE, I think we would still be invisible, and the galley could shoot SE-E and unload the GS on an undefended city.

I think the above is true. Though since Scout is good at his job, I am probably wrong and will just show myself ignorant.

Or, as Abe Lincoln said, "It is better to remain quiet and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt."

The GS can rush and reach fur in two turns - except they will see us on the border.

If we put them both on the Galley, then move the galley S-SE, I think we would still be invisible, and the galley could shoot SE-E and unload the GS on an undefended city....in two turns I can have four Gallic Swords standing on that furs tile. :mischief:

Or as Murphy would say... "The diversion you are ignoring is the main attack."

I go to Mexico and all heck breaks loose! :evil: Go get 'em.

Make sure to give them a proper declaration of war. Something about Dinsog, Provo, spirit of the game, rule 2.4 etc.

I go to Mexico and all heck breaks loose! :evil:
Yeah, doesn't that make you wish you were sitting at home in front of your computer, rather than basking in the Mexican sunshine? :mischief:

Make sure to give them a proper declaration of war. Something about Dinsog, Provo, spirit of the game, rule 2.4 etc.Very well. In the spirit of the game, we are not really attacking. We are sending 2.4 percent of our military to engage in a Police Action, seeking Dinsog for questioning in connection with the events surrounding a recent explosion at our Doughbolt factory.

In a recent exchange with Team Doughnut (when I forwarded the save) I asked their turnplayer to keep an eye out for Dinsog, as we were looking for him.

Here is a copy of their reply:There isn't anyone who has seen Dinsog on this continent.

Here is the Translated version:Nobody has seen Dinsog on this continent.

See! There it is - PROOF I tell you! The Doughnutian Ambassador himself has seen Dinsog! We must find Dinsog and bring him to justice!

TNT border in furbomb expands in 2T, so let's get our business with MIA done quickly! Hopefully, they don't have an MPP with TNT that will supercede our treaty :hmm:
They might have, but then again we have a situation where Nutters are forced by treaty to join us. Oh, the joys of friendship :love:.

Hopefully, they don't have an MPP with TNT that will supercede our treaty :hmm:
Wouldn't that show up in F4? or isn't that done in multi-player?

unless they rush something else, that pike will be done before we can attack (116g for 29 shields). I hope we have more to party with :banana:We'll have more to party with... but I would be curious to know if they've got 116g to play with. Remember, next turn will be the first turn that we will break the 100gpt mark; We're running 30% research, generating much of our science w/ specialists We're getting 15gpt from 'nuts for Spices and we're #1 in land, #2 in GNP. They, OTOH, are likely last in GNP, certainly last in land, and running 50% research. They likely don't have nearly the food to spare that we do for hiring specialists... so all of their science and treasury is probably coming from the cities themselves.

...plus I could always pull those two GSs back onto the boat. I rather liked Bugsy's landing spot. Next turn I plan to take a long hard look at the logistics of getting a good sized landing party there.

Scout, in your screen shot, it shows their current treasury at the top under the city name... they have 194 g

Whatever happened to that annoying TNT character with the big mouth? I can't remember his name but I did NOT forget about him :sniper:

According to the Crazy Eye Provolution (Provo) disappeared because of my findings.

Not sure exactly what happened to him though. He disappeared not too long after the unfun announcement was made. :mischief:

Findings? Unfun announcement? Refresh my memory please :)

Very well. In the spirit of the game, we are not really attacking. We are sending 2.4 percent of our military to engage in a Police Action, seeking Dinsog for questioning in connection with the events surrounding a recent explosion at our Doughbolt factory.

In a recent exchange with Team Doughnut (when I forwarded the save) I asked their turnplayer to keep an eye out for Dinsog, as we were looking for him.

Here is a copy of their reply:

Here is the Translated version:

See! There it is - PROOF I tell you! The Doughnutian Ambassador himself has seen Dinsog! We must find Dinsog and bring him to justice!

Scout, you underestimate your ability as a diplomat. I think you may have discovered the 'bizaro' version of "War is diplomacy by other means."

Congradulations :viking:

In scout's hands the converse is more true: Diplomacy is war by other means.

I took a peek @ the 115 save and came up with this. If we use the 2 GS's currently being built in Gilfach? and D-head? and load them on Chumbucket while cruising the TNT coast with the other GS's i galleys, we can simultanously land 10 GS's within striking distance from TNT cities. It will take 6-7 turns from now, but boys and grandmother would it be fun. The plan is prolly infested with flaws, but take a look and see if something like this could be done anyway. The GS's being built will have to be rushed.

1. Don't split our forces. Land the entire force together. Expect a counter attack on landing.

2. Expect stronger defenders. We'll probably run into pikes and trebuchets.

3. Plan on a longer term war. If we're going to do this we want to hurt TNT for good. Press home the attack.

I have been concerned about how we start this war. Are we just going to land 8 GS's next to Furbomb and declare the next turn when we attack or declare just before entering their water?

I just searched the rules for " war " and I found nothing related to when declaration of war should happen. Then I scanned the entire ruleset and again saw nothing. So I guess it's up to us how we do it. Declaring as we land will give them an opportunity to attack us first. Waiting until we actually attack would still allow this to happen.

One other thing....... Since GS's are 2 movement units, shouldn't we land on the furs so as to pull any TNT forces out of the city that might attack us? Then we could get that city maybe a little easier.

To be fair we should declare the moment we land inside their territory. If that means the GS is outside the borders I don't think we should have to declare until after it steps inside. If that means the empty city (which it was when Scout investigated the city) is taken by a GS moving two tiles that's not our problem.

What if we plant a settler 1 N of the furs then build a temp city.

Then the GS in that city would be 1 turn from being inside Furbomb. Declare and take that turn that the city is built.

Then we would be able to use Coinich's city name too :D

Speaking of which...I would like to add a city name I'm going to steal from Scoutsout....Auda City. :D

Speaking of which...I would like to add a city name I'm going to steal from Scoutsout....Auda City. :DFair enough. In whose face shall I plant that one? I was thinking of renaming Furbomb to "Spite" and founding "Malice" nearby...

I thought our landing spot would be near Carpetbomb III? Then we would be right by the actual core and maybe meet fewer enemies than if we land further down south. I assume TNT is keeping a larger portion of their troops at the Nut's border...

Okay - at this writing, our troops are at the point of no return. Next turn they can be standing on the shore next to Furbomb.

@Daghda: The reason I like Furbomb as a target is simple: We can better support that position. Any troops sent to the other side of the continent will be on their own - a long way from help. There are a couple of other things I like about it. It's lightly defended (last I checked) and it has Ivory.

But at any rate... if we're going to adjust our plans, the time is now. And diplomats... we need to get that MIA treaty on parchment SOON.

Support is huge. Your lines of communication are the shortest. Go with Furbomb. To quote a very good friend of mine, "Amateurs talk tactics, professionals talk logistics." Furbomb will keep your logistics simple.

Hey State Dept! What's taking you guys so long?

Edit - Scout, how many troops are in your first wave? How long until they are reinforced?

Edit 2 - I almost forgot - Zounds!

Zounds! This was sent today.
Hello MIA'ers,

We haven't heard anything on the "1000 Monkeys Treaty". We'd prefer not sign the treaty on April 1st since this is our holiest day at Team K.I.S.S.! I'm sure you understand. Let us know your thoughts.

Chief Fool Whomp

Oh! I almost forgot! APRIL FOOL'S DAY!!!! It is our holiest day!!!
:band: :banana: :beer: :dance: :woohoo: :cheers:

There must be much dancing and foolishness in the streets of KISS!

Support is huge. Your lines of communication are the shortest. Go with Furbomb. To quote a very good friend of mine, "Amateurs talk tactics, professionals talk logistics." Furbomb will keep your logistics simple.

Hey State Dept! What's taking you guys so long?

Edit - Scout, how many troops are in your first wave? How long until they are reinforced?

Edit 2 - I almost forgot - Zounds!Lines of communication...you speak-a-my-language! (I even taught harriet this concept... :D )

Apparently our State Department is comprised of a bunch of bureacratic idiots (redundant statement?). Remember, these are the guys that muffed the dispatch from 'nuts ("Nobody has seen Dinsog on this continent...")

The first wave is composed of 8 Gallic Swords (1 Elite) with 2 more on the way immediately. After that, things start to get a little dicey. I've got a Spear I will upgrade to a Pike next turn, but he's a good 4 turns out. I've got GSs in the queue in 3 cities...and I'm hoping they don't get swapped back to MDI when the GA kicks in. I have infrastructure builds going in Simpleton (no barracks), Polecat, and Knucklehead.

My scheme of maneuver is this: Take Furbomb, re-name it "Spite" and hopefully the GSs will be able to skirmish whatever TNT throws at us. If I can muster the forces I will attempt a second landing on the other side of their continent...where I plan to start turning cities into rockpiles.

We're running a fine line here between calculated risk and stupid gamble...

We're running a fine line here between calculated risk and stupid gamble...
That's my kind of war-making... really.... but I lean more towards the stupid gamble far too often

We 're moving awfully fast considering we have no signed peace with MIA. I hope Whompers lates can blow torch 'em a bit. I will do my very best to contribute to this if I see IronGold on AIM. If TNT detects something fishy and alert MIA, we could be in serious Trouble.

well the 8 GS could be dropped off in MIA territory then :devil:

well the 8 GS could be dropped off in MIA territory then :devil: I'm only thinking that our analysis of the current situation, which was that we have but a slim chance on beating MIA, still holds. Therefore, dragging 'em in at this point would be a blunder. I'm not saying it would be boring though and, with the words of Oscar Wilde "Being boring might be the greatest sin of all sins" :D

From his position on board the galley, Morpheus picked up his conch shell. Stretching the string tightly, he decided to check in with headquarters one last time.

"Kilo One Five Sierra, this is India Delta One Zero Tango, Over."

"India Delta One Zero Tango, this is Kilo One Five Sierra, over."

"Kilo One Five Sierra, stand by to copy burst transmission, over"

"India Delta One Zero Tango, send your traffic, over."

bbrrrrraaapppp

***************

K15S K15S DE ID10T ID10T BT
MSG 01 230 BC PRECEDENCE OSCAR BT

TASK FORCE DINSOG'S DERRIER HAS DEPARTED THE COAST AND ASSEMBLED AT RALLY POINT RED. BT

RALLY POINT RED IS POINT OF NO RETURN IMI RALLY POINT RED IS POINT OF NO RETURN BT

TROOPS ARE READY AND STANDING BY BT

PLEASE ADVISE STAND DOWN OR CHARLIE MIKE BT AR

***************

The treaty is signed. The troops are staged. The save is in our inbox. Unless someone sees something I don't...

It's go time.

:hammer:

Edit: "Charlie Mike" means "Continue Mission".

POTKiss concurs. Execute. Repeat. Execute. Verification: Bravo echo delta echo. repeat: bravo echo delta echo. go get 'em scout :crazyeye: :lol: :goodjob: :nuke:

The quills are sharp, blood is a good substitute for ink and I am prepared to go from yellow journalist to yellow war correspondent.

Does this mission have an operational code name that can be released post-mission?

And, good luck. Bringing enlightened idiocy is a noble and sacred cause.

Let's not to forget to send Kickbooti's declaration.... Also should we request an extension since tomorrow IS a holiday?

war on the holiday? let's just kill them. so sayeth the igor...

The Pentagon is suggesting:
Operation Igor's Fist :crazyeye:

to POTKISS.

More burst traffic from the straits...Foxtrot Zero Oscar Lima gets in on the action.

...and please don't ask me to explain how we invented radio teletype before discovering the Printing Press. It's a game. Build a bridge and get over it. :crazyeye:

***************
bbrrrrraaapppp
***************
ID10T ID10T DE K15S K15S BT
MSG 02 210 BC PRECEDENCE FLASH FLASH BT

CHARLIE MIKE BT

OPERATION IGORS FIST IS A GO BT

ZOUNDS IMI ZOUNDS BT

MELEET SPEED BT
AR

***************
bbrrrrraaapppp
***************

K15S K15S DE F0OL F0OL BT
MSG 03 210 BC PRECEDENCE FLASH FLASH BT

NO NAMER WARRIOR SPOTTED NW NW OF RALLY POINT RED BT

PLEASE ADVISE IF SHIP CHAIN CONTINGENCY NEEDED NEXT TURN BT

OUR GLORY IS AT HAND ON THIS GLORIOUS DAY OF MELEET

AR

***************
bbrrrrraaapppp
***************

K15S K15S DE ID10T ID10T BT
MSG 04 210 BC PRECEDENCE FLASH FLASH BT

TASK FORCE IGORS FIST HAS LANDED BT

MINIMUM RESISTANCE ENCOUNTERED BT

RECON REPORTS PERSIAN WOMEN UGLIER THAN GREEK IMI UGLIER THAN GREEK BT

DEAR MELEET BT IS THAT POSSIBLE BT

REQUEST IMMEDIATE RESUPPLY OF CAMP FOLLOWERS AND MORALE SUPPORT SPECIALISTS BT

AR

OMG, uglier even...get out of there or kill 'em all.

Capture the wench. We someone to clean our skivvies!

Do we keep the city? I think for at least one turn to gage TNT response. We also need pikes and trebs to reinforce.

Do we keep the city? I think for at least one turn to gage TNT response. We also need pikes and trebs to reinforce.My guess: They'll abandon Furbomb. That's alright... if they do, I'll take that stack and drive 'em straight for their capitol. :devil:

Abandoning would be just as effective. It will start hitting their economy one turn faster. And their unit support. And their productivity. And their trading ability.
Plus that frees up their roads so we can use them and strike quicker. Scout, I know you know how to use terrain. This will go straight back to basic manuevering 101 from GK2. :D

There is panic in the streets. We need an extension for a couple days.

Run, Donsig, run! *chuckle*

I saw that too Crakie... Hi Larious :wavey:

Dang DSL issues and I miss all the fun. Hopefully I'll be back up at home in a day or two. :sad:

Scout, have you started some settlers across yet? Gaining a turn's movement on offload will be important. Suggest the tile the no namer warrior was standing on as a beach head city.

Scout, have you started some settlers across yet? Gaining a turn's movement on offload will be important. Suggest the tile the no namer warrior was standing on as a beach head city.I kinda like that spot over by the river...2 NW of the No-namer warrior... as for settlers... I've got one due out of Ignoramus next turn... with a Spear I'll upgrade to a pike to cover...something. I have another settler on the ground...and I could probably have her meet a galley...

Aw shoot. I'll do what I usually manage. I'll think of somethin'. :D

Aw shoot. I'll do what I usually manage. I'll think of somethin'. :DIf there is one guy who will mange quite well, it is you. :D

just spammity spam.
waiting to check the save so i can gloat.

It seems the RNG has been kind to TNT. We are now Average to them.

Here's the tactical situation: The've got a pike fortified on 2 reasonably healthy immortals SW of 3 of our Gallics.

122788

They've got a redlined Immortal on the former site of Unabomb, and a Pike SE of our troops.

122789

My plans:

First, I'm going to whack that redlined immortal and start our GA. Pillage the tile with the "P" on it to limit their movement.

I would love to control the area W-NW of that river. I MUST control the area E-SE of the river... as I plan to get a settler in there on the former site of Furbomb.

Plan A: Attack the pike with the remaining Gallic Swords.

Plan B: Simply use the speed of the Gallics to get troops on the other side of the river.

122790

We need to prosecute this campaing with an eye towards "preservation of force".

I lean toward plan B. Taking out the red-liner and starting the GA is prudent, I don't know that I see any advantage to working on the pike (aside from the fact that he is on a plain rather than a more defendable site and that he couldn't spy on our positions until they stuck their neck out from the other stack). Hmmm. Come to think of it, those may be good reasons to hit the pike.

I suppose it depends on the follow-up forces. Some of the follow-up forces (pikes and trebs) will help us make a more lasting impression on TNT. Perhaps discression is the better part of valor in this case.

"preservation of Force" is the way to run it as long as we kill as many of theirs as we can.

I'm not sure what these guys are doing abandoning towns that way, surely they know that we couldn't possibly intend to keep any captured, though, sin abandonment hurts less in the WW budget, that has got to be the thinking(?). but, it just makes life a lot easier for the GS's if they concede the border areas this way, so I guess I won't complain. Pikes on the ground won't make our cause any easier, but running rings around the Immos should be fun to watch. Patience is the watchword now, wait for the opening we know will come.

With this recent turn, I am thinking a few things...

A) Establish and defend the resupply city on the eastern coast of Battle Isle.

B) Keep trickling troops down to MIA, but rather than the 1-1 Battle Isle/MIA we had talked about, maybe a 2-1 (maybe 3-1 for the short-term) TNT/MIA.

C) Assuming we can well defend our city on that continent, send another 8 SoD around on the North side of TNT for pillaging and fun, then send some pikes/trebs/MI stacks out of our city and take or raze a few.

D) Dnuts decision on what to do will effect us.

E) Loosing three GS stink, but let's face it, we would expect to loose that kind of number taking cities, its a wash at this point. Just preserve what we have and as Bede said, watch for the opening.

Okay, now that Nuts have invaded, how does this effect our plans?

I don't have Civ 3 on this computer so I can't check the save, but should we/can we launch our SoD now?

If we don't have the forces - wait. Why kill Persians enough to let the Nuts move north without acheiving our objective.

If we do - should we? Do we think TNT will rush forces to the south or will they 'turtle up' and move EVERYTHING to their capitol/core?

If so, what is our response?

I think if they seem to be doing that we should send our Longbows NOW.

I would even propose (though not argue at this point) that our SoD should head toward the West coast of TNT to take those cities since in any seige warfare I think that we will have the advantage with our trebs. It seems to me that the Nuts have concnetrated on speed so they will be ill suited to seige warfare.

This is all so exciting.

As Bill Shakespeare said "Who let the dogs out!?!" Oh wait, that was the Baha Men; Shakespeare said "Cry 'Havoc' and let slip the dogs of war!" (Julius Ceasar Act III Sceen I)

imho, and based on the intelligence, we have enough units to drive straight to thier core, but we're at least 2T from landing near the iron. We have 7LB's and 3Pikes to land near thier iron, and we want that to have as little cover as possible. I'm not sure of the frontal attack force, but I can check later.

So, I would recommend that we start out for the core next turn, driving straight for the capitol. Hopefully, they make a play for the SoD as well as Donut's force in the south, leaving thier iron weakly defended.

However, since TNT plays 1st, we'll know more with the next save.

I am more than content to let G-man make the tactical decisions. Pile 'em all into one stack and go after 'em, for what that's worth.

As a team, we have one thing that is most dangerous: We have options.

First - Do we know where the Nutters attacked at?

I think we have two options with the main SOD
a - drive south and take that city directly south of Spite.
b - Go for the juggular and march at the capitol.

I think since the Nutters went first we might want them to take some hits. We were more than willing to absorb some flack, for them. They have stepped up and taken some for us.

The key here is intel. Can they share their battle log with us?

The key here is intel. Can they share their battle log with us?I expect that line would be drawn somewhere south of a full battle log...and I don't think we'll be able to tell what cities they took... though I'd be willing to bet that 'nuts suddenly have gems to trade.

I found their letter in the other thread. Why are we posting letters from Donuts in the TNT diplo thread? We truly are idiots. :rolleyes:

That makes it very simple - drive right at their core. We should be able to roll these guys up in less than ten turns. Just in time for the MIA war.

Unabomb was a little better defended than we thought. And a nice stack of
trebs, too

Battlelog for turn 137:

TNT trebuchet bombards gall vetern pikeman for 1 hp.
TNT trebuchet bombards gall vetern pikeman for 1 hp. (the second pikeman)
TNT trebuchet bombards gall elite Dirty Harry for 1 hp.
TNT trebuchet bombards gall elite Invincible, shot failed.
TNT trebuchet bombards gall elite Invicinble for 1 hp.
TNT trebuchet bombards gall Josie Walls for 1 hp.
TNT trebuchet bombards elite Medevil Infantry, shot fails.
TNT trebuchet bombards elite Medevil Infantry, shot fails.
*TNT elite Immortal attacks gall elite Medevil Infantry, medevil
infantry loses (Immortal has 1hp left).
*TNT vertern Greekguy the Great attacks gallic vetern ( at 3hp by
bombardment) pike, immortal loses and pike is promoted to elite (at
3hp).
*TNT vetern Nasir attacks gallic vet (3hp) pike, immortal wins (3hp left)
*TNT vet BCLG the immortal attacks gall elite (3hp) pike, immortal
loses (pike at 1hp)
*TNT reg immortal Urupay attacks vet gall Mad Max, immortal loses (2hp left)
*TNT reg immortal attacks gall vet Flyin' Elvis, immortal loses (2hp left)
TNT vet Immortal #2 attacks gallic elite Dirty Harry, immortal wins (1hp left)
TNT reg immortal #5 attacks gallic elite Invicinble, immortal wins (1hp left)
TNT reg immortal #6 attacks gallic elite Josie wales, immortal wins (2hp left)
TNT reg immortal #4 attacks gallic vet medevil infantry, medevil
infantry wins (2hp left)
TNT vet immortal attacks vet gallic medevil infantry, medevil infantry
wins (1hp left)
TNT vet immortal attacks vet gallic medevil infantry, immortal wins (1hp left)
TNT vet immortal attacks vet gallic medevil infantry, immortal wins (1hp left)

*means that a gallic trebuchet bombarded an attacking immortal. All of
the attacking immortals lost 1hp.

If my count is right that was 7-6 in favor of TNT. Looks like they have given up the south in favor of defending the north. I don't think this changes the plan any, though, as it appears they have swallowed the bait.

@Bede: I think you got the tally right... By my account we lost 3 MDI, a Pike and 3 Gallic Swords (all of the elite GSs, unfortunately). Of the 4 remaining MDI, only 2 are healthy. Neither of the two surviving GSs are healthy, and the remaining pike, though elite, is redlined.

I think this is actually very good news. That means our D-Day 2 maneuver is going mean lesser resistance and Donuts should be able to make a dent as well.

Have we heard from Donuts?

Wow. Bloody. What have we got left and can we take that nice stack of trebs they build for us?

PS - We should send flowers to Simon, BGLC the immortal is pushing up daisys. I'm sure he'll be crushed.