http://static.flickr.com/37/74411224_1b8b1df6ec_o.jpg

C3C 1.22 Patch
Level: Emp
Variant: Always War :hammer:
Map Type: Random
Size: standard.

Civilization: Random - Portugal
Age: Random
Temperature: Random
Climate: Random
Barbarians: Random
Rivals: Random
AI Aggression: Random


Victory Condition:All enabled
Culturally linked starts: Off
Respawn: Off
Preserve Random Seed: On
Cultural Conversion: On

Roster blind name draw provided this order
1. Greebley
2. Northern Pike
3. Obormot
4. ThERat
5. M60A3TTS
6. romeothemonk
7. Handy

No using , F4, F10, F11 or any other way to find out about civs. We only know what we can see on the map.
We can't use the V victory panels.
No initial trade - declare war immediately.
Only way to investigate a civ is with a spy planted with that civ.

Always War Boilerplate as we play it.
You may only never trade when you first meet with a civilization, and must declare war on the same turn you meet a civ after trading is complete. If you see a new AI unit, you must make contact & declare war that turn. Absolutely no GPT trades allowed. If you see a new face on F4, you are obligated to declare war that turn (after trading). Players must declare war if they are exploring and see AI units, but are not required to actually attack the units they come in contact with. No peace treaties, ever. You may check F4 as often as you like to spy on the AI's tech, resources, luxuries & city count.

Discuss any move that seems exploitive before doing it with the team. Although there are not too many exploits available in AW, we’ll follow the forbidden blatant exploits banned by GOTM and RBCiv such as no "Free Wealth". Other normal game exploits such as "Baiting the AI" with an empty city to create a kill zone are an AW tradition and are allowed. Also, you ARE allowed to initially keep a city, move a settler to the same spot as the city, and then abandon and immediately resettle. This is considered an exploit in RBCiv rules, but is okay in our AW games. In addition if you need to build a city one square deeper into enemy territory just to move borders to steal a resource, go for it. We may keep or raze cities, and can keep slaves. You may whip at will, including captured cities or cities where all citizens are unhappy.

SG Stuff
You have 24 hours for an "I got it" and 72 to play. If you need a one day extension, then mention this before the 72 hours are up. Players can work out skips between themselves, just post a message to the thread. If you can't play within 72 total, switch places or ask for a skip. We will play 10 turns at first, and possibly fewer later (5) if the turns begin to take too long.

Lucky candle to light the way.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/HNDY02_luckycandle.gif

We do pretty well when I play last. ;)

Same order as last game. If anyone drops Romeothemonk is on the waiting list from last game's thread.

I would actually like removing the first trade from the boilerplate (not just this game). It just doesn't sync with the rest of the concept that you can trade at first.

In any case the boilerplate is incorrect for this game.

I would specifically mention we can't use the V victory panels.

One more request - Lets not stick with the same order every time. Can you randomize that as well? The reason is that with people playing differently, getting handed a game from a different player will be ...errr... different.

Lets not stick with the same order every time. Can you randomize that as well?Greebley, you mean playing after me is some sort of painful experience :lol:

I agree, randomize the order as well...and let me guess...we are Portugal, this must be an archipelago

I would actually like removing the first trade from the boilerplate (not just this game). It just doesn't sync with the rest of the concept that you can trade at first.

In any case the boilerplate is incorrect for this game.

I would specifically mention we can't use the V victory panels.

One more request - Lets not stick with the same order every time. Can you randomize that as well? The reason is that with people playing differently, getting handed a game from a different player will be ...errr... different.

Thanks for the idea to change the boiler plate. It needed an update badly.

I switched the order around by drawing names out of a hat in the spirit of the "Random" AW concept. I stayed last because I'm helping my parents move and next week @ work is busy so that works best for me.

Roster blind name draw provided this order
1. Greebley
2. Northern Pike
3. Obormot
4. ThERat
5. M60A3TTS
6. Sir Bugsy
7. Handy

we are Portugal, this must be an archipelago
It's random, but we may know if it's islands by the end of Greebley's set if we are on a small island. No seed beasting the map!

That looks hard, hopefully harder than the last game.

Subscribing, and good luck!

Greebley, you mean playing after me is some sort of painful experience :lol:

I agree, randomize the order as well...and let me guess...we are Portugal, this must be an archipelago

Quite the opposite. I am developing a habit of only doing a cursory glance and hitting enter :lol: Not always a good idea. I have been given games where would lose a town if I did that. (actually anyone can miss something so one should always look).

Looks like I will be going first so I got it.

I can't play tonight it is way too late.

To give the rest of you something to think about, here is the start after the units move. The start is trickier than most.

Note that one could even argue is it worth moving onto the Sugar resource to setttle - you lose that resource and get 2 whales in exchange.

Not sure where I will choose, so go ahead and voice an opinion. :D

Note that the settler is currently on an BG

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a251/Greebley/HNDY24_BC4000.jpg

Checking in. :rockon:

Note that one could even argue is it worth moving onto the Sugar resource to setttle - you lose that resource and get 2 whales in exchange.

A daring idea, but I'd rather not found a capital which could only ever work ten shield-yielding tiles, two of which would be whales. We'd also be trading a two-food, two-shield tile available almost immediately for a one-shield tile which would reach three food only with Map Making and Monarchy. I think a capital directly SE of our settler's present location, combined with an eventual fishing village just south of the sugar, would be the lesser evil. That's just a quick reaction without dotmapping, though.

I would be comfortable settling in place, since I don't see any other tiles in the immediate area screaming for settlement. We can use the forest chops to speed up a settler or two.

Checking in.

I would just settle in place.

I decided to move the settler 1 square SE. It gains us 2 squares that are 2 food and 2 sheilds (with mines) with a third at the first border expansion.

In 3950 AD, we find a border. First game I have found another AI on the same turn as settling my first settler.
Fortunately, we haven't gotten contact yet.

I choose to go for Archers for a very early offensive war.

We built 3 warriors (in case the yellow player found us) and started on barracks. The scout was disbanded.

In 3000 BC, we are a turn from Barracks and from Warrior Code.

The strategy seems very clear to me. Build a stack of 4-6 Archers and take out the yellow AI's capitol. We have no land with the Yellow AI that close.

Here is a final picture:

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a251/Greebley/HNDY24_BC3000.jpg

Agree with Greebley, no settlers, just build a stack of archers and capture their capital (capture, not raze - they didn't build any culture yet).

Looks like we drew an 80% water map.

now that is a tough start for a change. Let's take them out and then expand. if we can manage that, we should be in good shape.

Ya, definitely capture rather than Raze. Otherwise we fall too far behind in city count.

I think I'm going to have to pass on this one. Romeo can have my slot.

My band had a meeting today and we're going to buy studio time in February to record a CD. A great deal of my time is probably going to be spent with music.

Good luck. I will be lurking.

My band had a meeting today and we're going to buy studio time in February to record a CD. A great deal of my time is probably going to be spent with music.that sounds great Bugs
so what part of the :band: are you? and what type of music...anyway good luck and success!

My band had a meeting today and we're going to buy studio time in February to record a CD. A great deal of my time is probably going to be spent with music.

Best of luck. Remember, when you make it big, you don't have to date Pamela Anderson--it's optional. :D

2550 BC--worker still has movement (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/HNDY24-2550BC.SAV)

3000 (0): Research down to 30%, WC still due this turn.

Lisbon barracks --> archer.

Warrior Code --> Bronze Working, due in fourteen turns at 100%.

An English warrior--i.e, not a unit from the yellow civ--comes into view, and I declare war. This may be a short game.


2850 (3): Lisbon archer --> archer.


2710 (6): Lisbon archer --> archer. Every time we build a unit I have to cut the science rate 10% and Bronze Working recedes into the future, unfortunately.


2590 (9): Lisbon archer --> archer.


2550 (10): Development of Lisbon's oasis tile is complete. I'll leave our worker with his movement so that the next player can choose the project that suits his taste. Chopping down forests immediately to speed up archers is obviously a tempting idea, but not terribly efficient, since we'd then be building them for 24 shields.

We have three archers. I don't think we should move on the yellow capital until we have six.

The best news is that we still aren't at war with the yellow civ, and we've only seen the one English unit.

Those of you with small children can show them this screenshot and the last one as a spot-the-changes exercise :lol::

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/HNDY24-2550BC.JPG

I am unsure if we should disband any of the warriors. It would speed research, but then it means we need to build more units in order to defend ourselves, which means the AI will be stronger.

We could disband one and then leave 2 warriors, and an Archer at home. That would attacking when we have 7 archers total.

I am unsure if we should disband any of the warriors.

I thought of that, but I decided that we need to be as strong as possible for the archer rush and everything else is secondary.

Checking in gents.

Where do I fit in?
I will be able to play Tuesday at the earliest

I've got it. I think the best thing to do with the worker would be to chop one of the forest tiles and then when we grow to size 5 join him to the city and work 2 remaining forest tiles for 11 spt and 2-turn archers. Joining the worker hurts of course, but we need those shields urgently. 6 archers is a gamble - enough against 2 spears, but they can have more units in there. According to my experience the number of defenders in an AI capital is somewhat random. I would say 10 archers is the safe bet.

Checking in gents.

Where do I fit in?
I will be able to play Tuesday at the earliest

I'll just place you in Bugs spot. Welcome to the team. :)

Obormot - I like your "join the worker plan". With any luck we'll find a slave or two in the yellow capital.

This game is getting interesting. :D

1. Greebley
2. Northern Pike
3. Obormot has it
4. ThERat
5. M60A3TTS
6. romeothemonk
7. Handy

I'd like to join, if there is available open slot
Else I'll be lurker

I've got it. I think the best thing to do with the worker would be to chop one of the forest tiles and then when we grow to size 5 join him to the city and work 2 remaining forest tiles for 11 spt and 2-turn archers. Joining the worker hurts of course, but we need those shields urgently. 6 archers is a gamble - enough against 2 spears, but they can have more units in there. According to my experience the number of defenders in an AI capital is somewhat random. I would say 10 archers is the safe bet.

We may have a limit based on our gold. I don't know that we can really afford to fail. Maybe we should go with as many as we can afford.

My only worry with waiting too long is that we may end up with less archers since some have to defend vs England.


I do think we should maximize the speed so I would go ahead and do the merge, but only after we road all squares since we need the gold to support more archers.

We could even consider turning off science until the military resolves itself. Not something I like to do, but it would give us gold if we have to temporarily have more archers than we can support.

I'd like to join, if there is available open slot
Else I'll be lurker

Unfortunately, this is the type of game that is full before it even starts. If someone does have to leave and doesn't already have a replacement, then we can consider you the first person in line. It is probably unlikely though.

You could try starting up an AW game yourself. Though it is harder to find people these days to play, you still may be able to get 3 or more to join your game. AW is a fairly popular variant.

that sounds great Bugs
so what part of the :band: are you? and what type of music...anyway good luck and success!Guitarist, vocals (mostly backup), and chief composer. We are sort of an alternative Christian band, but we have a lot of secular stuff too.

Good luck to the Grumpies and welcome to Romeo! :wavey:

I'd like to join, if there is available open slot
Else I'll be lurker

I will put you down as 1st alternate in case someone drops this game or next. (romeothemonk was 1st alternate but he's in the game now. :) In the past we have had large teams and you just tend to lose a "feel" for the game if you go too long between turn sets because of a large team. In the meantime you can download the save and play along in the background - just don't post any spoiler info to the thread.

I would second Greebley's suggesstion to start an AW variant. I started these because it seemed games were always full bu the time I saw them on the forum.

Hey Bugs - good luck and let us know when the CD is released.

OK, here are my thoughts about the situation. Science: we need BW. Everything else will take too long for now as we are going to choke with units for some time. After learning BW we can stop science temporarily. Military: we have 3 archers and 3 reg warriors. I choose to disband the 3 warriors to be able to get BW in reasonable time. I don't want to road forest because delaying worker joining will slow us down a lot and working 2 unroaded forests will allow us to support 10 units: i think 1 spear and 9 archers is the way to go.

pre-flight:
- disband the warriors, worker moves to forest. Science 100%, BW in 5 turns.

IBT
- Another english warrior appears.

2510BC
- Worker waits a turn, otherwise the shields from the chop will be wasted.

IBT
- English warriors start moving towards Lisbon.

2470BC
- We build another archer. Worker starts chopping.

IBT
- English warriors approach Lisbon. 2 more warriors appear out of the fog.

2430BC
- We kill both english warriors. (2-0)

2350BC
- We build another archer. We attack 2 english warriors and loose an archer, but 2 other archers promote. (4-1) We'll have BW next turn and will build a spear.

2310BC
- We meet the yellow civ. It is mongols. I declare of course.
- We learn BW and start IW at 10%.

2270BC
- We build a spear hurried by a forest chop. I join the worker and we can now build 2-turn archers. We can switch a citizen from lake to forest every turn.

2190BC
- We build one more archer. 2 mongol archer and a warrior and 2 english warriors approach. This could get ugly soon, so i'll play a little longer then 10 turns to see if we whether we can survive at all.

2150BC
- We kill 2 english warriors. (6-1)

2070BC
- we kill 2 mongol archer in defense and our spear promotes. (8-1)

2030BC
- kill another mongol, one more fortifies. (9-1)

1950BC
- We build one more archer.

OK, looks like we survived the first wave, but we are at our unit limit currently. We should attack now. We have 8 archers (2 of them elite) and an elite spear.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/handy24_1950BC.JPG

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/HNDY24-1950BC.SAV

got it...exciting...we better take out the Mongols before it's too late.

I think I will pull out all 8 archers, we will produce more anyway as backup for defense. I hope 8 archers are enough to take out the enemy base.

Good Luck ThERat - at least the yellow was not Zulu. That would have stunk.

Checking in at the Lurker Hotel. :)

I would also take the spear with us. I was kind of hoping that the Yellow guys were Egypt. The mongols might have already put up a rax, and with their aggressiveness are one of the tougher guys to archer rush. They are better than the Zulu though, so at least that broke in our favor.

I would also take a spear to protect our stack. We can either attack that warrior with our archers or wait 2 turns and build a spear instead of an archer to stay at home.

save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/HNDY24-1625BC.SAV)

Pre-Turn
let the ugly part begin
defeat warrior with elite archer and get the others all out towards Mongols
no MP = lux 40% but that matters little now

1. 1910BC
spot a Mongol settler pair, but I leave it alone for the time being

2. 1870BC
get another archer, lux now back to 20%

3. 1830BC
Mongol capital spotted with a reg spear on top :)
spot wines there as well, how nice

4. 1790BC
MM our capital to high commerce to avoid bankrupcy and go for worker
our stack reaches the capital

IT 2 Mongol warrior run around but do not enter Karakorum, :smoke: as usual

5. 1750BC
D-day for our game
e-archer defeats reg spear flawless
archer defeats reg spear 1/4
archer redlines reg spear, but loses and no new spears shows up :)
archer defeats spear
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/handy241750.jpg
defeat the reg warrior that was hanging around there as well

send 3 archers towards just founded Almarikh
up science to 60%

6. 1725BC
lose an archer but manage to autoraze Almarikh for 41gold :)

make a mistake by going towards the next Mongol town and run into a Mayan warrior, war it is :eek:

we produce a worker and now can up science to 90%, lux is 10%

7. 1700BC
move towards Kazan

8. 1675BC
autoraze Kazan, but Mongols are still alive
send out an archer and spot Mongol archer in the west and some borders

IT argh, lose a wounded vet archer, that was exposed to vet warrior and against another warrior we win

9. 1650BC
before the next push we need to consolidate

IT our fortified vet archers defeats archer on defense and promotes elite

10. 1625BC
move our archers back so we can push forward once everyone is healed as a group

capital is set on another worker to connect towns, we should go for settler soon
economy is healthy and we get IW in 7
would go for maths (+masonry) unless we have iron, then maybe wheel first

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/handy241625.jpg

Strange looking minimap. Three civs on the same island in a arch map would be a pretty low probability. I think I've seen it only 1 time. Nice food bonus up in Mongol land. :) Karakorum would make a fine palace location. Not sure if we will ever get a chance to move it though.

1. Greebley
2. Northern Pike
3. Obormot has it
4. ThERat
5. M60A3TTS up
6. romeothemonk
7. Handy

Agree that some consolidation is a good idea. Building a pair of towns between our current two towns would definitely be nice - get us more unit support.

I would go for Masonry next for the walls.

I agree on Masonry.
I would get a settler out of Lisbon and have it head to 1N of the mined oasis by Lisbon.
The next settler wouldn't be ready until my turns at least, and should go where the worker stands in TheRats screenie.

I wouldn't go too hard after the Mongols city just yet. Let the borders exapnd first, just so we can keep it and save cranking the settler of our own.

Just remember that the Mongols are exapnsionist and may have popped settlers and cities all over God's green Earth.

I agree, we should irrigate the cow and wheat near Karakorum and build a few settlers. Waiting for border expansion before attacking is a good idea. We don't have to worry about flips since their culture is even lower then ours because they lost the culture doubling from palace.

Got it. Playing now. :D

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/Handy24_Mongols.JPG

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/Handy24_1250_BC.SAV

1575BC- Kill Mongol archer, our elite archer loses one hp.

1550BC- Advance a spear on the road towards the Mongol town. Oops, two English archers, not good. Vet archer kills Mongol archer on mountain, which allows our spear to retreat to that spot.

1500BC- Tough call here. The Mayans aren’t heading for us, they’re making for the Mongols. If they are at war, we could administer a coupe de grace right here. No guts, no glory. Advance!

The IBT proves the assumption correct, the Mayan’s are hammering away at Ta-Tu. Advance next to the city.

1475BC- The Mayans capture Ta-Tu and Mongolia bites the dust.

1450BC- That ivory looks mighty nice. Kill 2 defenders and Ta-Tu is ours. Two Mongolian workers added to our collection. Kill 2 more warriors with elites, but no MGL.

1400BC- IW in, Masonry in 8.

1350BC- Whack a Mayan warrior w/elite. Nothing. Grapes of Wrath founded.

1300BC- Maneuver about a Mayan spear.

1250BC- Kill the spear with an elite archer. Nothing. Finish 15 turns to make it an even 70 played. Masonry in 1.

Hmmm. What to do next. :mischief: Ivory in our possession, Learn Math next perhaps. Elite archers for an MGL…

Well someone smarter can figure it out. ;)

1. Greebley
2. Northern Pike
3. Obormot
4. ThERat
5. M60A3TTS
6. romeothemonk up
7. Handy

1400BC- IW inDid you spot any iron?

Ivory in our possession, Learn Math next perhaps
:thumbsup:

Got it. Will play some tonight.

No visible iron yet.

IHT: Find my way around again. It has been a day or two since I have played some AW.
We know 2 folks and are at war with both. We have 13 units, can have 16.
We have ivory and wines.
The next tech is obviously math. If you have to ask why, you haven't read enough Grumpy Old Men games.
The 2 civs we know are Maya and England. Due to Maya already being at war, it is safe to say that they are in their GA. Our goal is to not let England sniff their GA.
We can see an English border to our south. Woot! I know where the troops are headed.
Worker actions, get the mined plains cow irrigated and soon.
IBT: Barb pony shows up. Who invited these guys? Decide to hold off on Math for now as CB is a 4 turn tech.
Turn 1: Kind of odd that animate friends moves was on. Moving towards that English border.
IBT: In case it wasn't clear before, the Maya appear to be to our north, as a Jav kills a barb horse. England advances a reg warrior and archer towards us.
Turn 2 and 3: Advance threateningly towards Nottingham. Locate a very nice city location along the way.
IBT: Hokey smokes batman. Incans already build the Pyramids. What difficulty is this?
Turn 4: Elite archer kills reg Maya spear. (1-0).
Turn 5: The Maya start the ToA. Whoopie!! Grapes of Wrath builds rax, starts archer. Math started, due in 12 at a deficeit. Kill reg english archer.
Turn 6: Kill reg english archer. Pillage by Nottingham.
Turn 7: Bad Rng. Lose an elite archer to reg unforted English spear, lose vet archer to reg archer. Kill said reg archer.
Turn 8: More stuff goes wrong. Lose elite archer to reg spear at nottingham. 2nd elite archer kills him, but there is another spear present. Attack is postponed.
Turn 9: Retreat! Maya and English both coordinate moves.
IBT: 2 Mayan javs attack Ta-Tu, we have 1 spear defending. Move in 2 archers to help. First jav Rls our spear, even after D bombard hurts him. 2 Jav kills elite archer.
Turn 10: I kill some stuff. Most notably 1 english archer and 1 english warrior that were threating GoW.

Here are my thoughts:
Keep archers coming from Lisbon, GoW and Karakoum, at least for a bit. Lisbon is 3 turn archers, GoW and Karakoum are 4 turn. A settler is due from Ta-Tu in 2. (A pun)
I would put the settler on the black dot on top of the forest between Ta-Tu and GoW. It is a nice location, gets us game forest, plenty of BG and shortens our English front.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/Grumpy24-1.jpg
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/Handy24_1000_BC.SAV

got it

1. Greebley
2. Northern Pike
3. Obormot
4. ThERat
5. M60A3TTS
6. romeothemonk
7. Handy

1000 bc Decide to switch one archer to a spear.

Turn 1
GOW – spear – SoZ pre-build
Looks like a time to heal and consolidate a little bit. We have some room to expand and create a buffer around the future SoZ city.

Turn 2
Spain builds the Oracle
Start walls in the Ivory city of Ta Tu.
We lose two vet archers killing a pillaging spear. Pillagers are going to be a problem until we get an army or Acav.
Lisbon switched to spear
Karakorum to walls
Ta Tu to walls
[1-2]

Turn 3
Mayans build ToA. I guess they’ll send loads of javs now.
Lose another vet archer to a regular spear that was going to pillage the wines.
[1-3]

Turn 4
Kill the offending Mayan spear [2-3]
Found BG I hate to be 1 tile from the sea, but three BG will help a lot and we need some military.

Turn 5
Karakorum has walls and starts on a settler. Lux goes up.

Turn 6
Lisbon – spear – archer
Lux is now 10 and science 90 with math due this turn.


Turn 7
Math – wheel
Palace switched to SoZ which says due in 29. We’ll grow soon and with MM can cut that down a good bit.
I’m temped to switch Lisbon to settler and send him to the safe peninsula.
The Statue build time drops to 21 and the city grows again in 5.

Turn 8
Lisbon – spear – spear
Inca get Hanging Gardens

Turn 9
English archers move toward the ivory city.
I set Lisbon to 11 spt for 2 turn cats, so it is not growing. Slave can begin irrigation next turn.

Turn 10
Decline Mayan peace offer.
A lone Mayan jav appears in the north.
Kill 2 to English archers with no losses. [3-3]
I would place the settler on the red dot if possible. If the AI traffic is too thick, one of the safer green dots. The red dot is a river city that would be S of the River so we can shuffle units from Karakorum to bend in the River to Ta Tu since the cities will be CxxCxxC.
If we can hang on until we get some cats & Acav there looks to be some narrow areas N and E we can slowly push our way through.
GoW grows in 2 so you can MM for fates SoZ build time.

Thoughts on Glib? Might be fun to try without it again.

The next few turns could bet a little bumpy until we get sufficient cats & archers to the front lines. You will only lose 2 shields it you switch the settler in Karakorum to a cat before you hit enter, which may not be a bad idea. It may be better to lose 2 shields & get a cat that may help to save an archer than to lose an archer that will cost us 20 shields to replace. Karakorum would also keep pop to produce units faster. Interesting decision. :)

In 2 turns GoW Karakorum grows and won't need the wheat anymore.

1. Greebley up
2. Northern Pike
3. Obormot
4. ThERat
5. M60A3TTS
6. romeothemonk
7. Handy






http://static.flickr.com/43/76571714_e55bc92a01_o.jpg

Looking at this, I would swap the settler to Cat.
I would have Lisbon finish the cat, then start unit pumping. (Spear then archer)
I would have karakoum build a settler after the cat, then go not to the Red dot, but to the city ruins dot first. Karakoum can be a nice settler pump with the wheat and the cow.
The Maya should be coming out of a GA now, and should be easier to handle.
We should sneak another worker in there somehow too. Lisbon could use some more improvements.

Looking again, the old city ruins is a great spot.

Consider switching settler to cat, then build a settler in Karakorum. By the time that is done you would have some 2-turn cats from Lisbon you could use to create a nice kill zone by founding on the city ruins and leaving the city with no garrison. The Mayans will stroll right past Karakorum toward the empty city on the ruins. Parks cats on the wines and hit the Mayans as they stroll past and farm leaders. Road on the hill would help also, but the AI won't walk the long way around the cats.

Red dot is too agressive with mayans in a GA.

I really like the way C3 AW makes you think about tactics so early in the game. C4 is an okay game, I just wish it was as exciting (action packed) as
C3.

I take the advice above and switch the settler to a Catapult despite the loss of shields.

We have horses so I went for HBR next.

I built 3 Cats, an Archer and our first Horseman.

We lost a single Archer attacking a red-lined archer.

Got a few elite victories but no leader. Not a lot of units came at us. I only saw two units in 10 turns (killed one - one just got here).

Zeus is in 4 turns. We should get it. The ACav will be our only attack 3 units given our lack of Iron.

You may want to switch the Capitol to something other than a Horse since we will get Zeus. Up to the next player though.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a251/Greebley/HNDY24_BC550.jpg

1. Greebley
2. Northern Pike up
3. Obormot
4. ThERat
5. M60A3TTS
6. romeothemonk
7. Handy

Acav Army and we are in business. :D

Acav Army and we are in business. :D

That was my thought as well.

I'm afraid that holiday-related RL is consuming all my time :(, and I'll have to ask for a skip. I may be able to jump in after a couple of rounds, turning the skip into a swap, but I don't know.

I'm afraid that holiday-related RL is consuming all my time :(, and I'll have to ask for a skip. I may be able to jump in after a couple of rounds, turning the skip into a swap, but I don't know.

No Problem. Busy time of year.


1. Greebley
2. Northern Pike up
3. Obormot UP
4. ThERat
5. M60A3TTS
6. romeothemonk
7. Handy

Obormot is up, but with a new job I'm not sure if he will be able to continue. Let's give him some time to see if he can still play.

Obormot posted in another game (MadV1) that he has no home computer access until Jan 3. I suggest that ThERat go ahead and play.

Okay. ThERat up for now.

1. Greebley
2. Northern Pike skip or swap
3. Obormot (no PC til 1-3-06)
4. ThERat up
5. M60A3TTS
6. romeothemonk
7. Handy

got it, now at work :( play tonight

save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/Handy24_350_BC.SAV)

Pre-Turn
SoZ in 4 and mysticism in 4 as well
MM SoZ town for more gold
mysticism in 3 now

1. 530BC
bombardment of a JW on a mountain is futile

IT JW step onto our tiles and there are more English archers showing up

2. 510BC
bombard JW red and search for elite archers, none around
use elite spear but no leader
MM and mysticism in 1 at -2gpt

IT there are now 6 archers in front of TaTu :eek:
mysticism is in, next writing

3. 490BC
horse redlines but takes out 1/6 archers
we have 2 spears and 2 archers inside, play defensive and don't attack

IT extremly lousy RnG costs us 2 spears on defense, one of them elite :gripe:
but we get SoZ

4. 470BC
kill 2 archers in front of Tatu as revenge
found Lagos

5. 450BC
rest and wait for the next wave

6. 430BC
now more JW coming in the north
we need those AC's

7. 410BC
this is tricky, those JW try and avoid us
defeat 1 JW and 1 archer

IT beat JW and archer on defense

8. 390BC
there are now 6 JW trying to sneak past Karakorum
we have another settler, but that is of no use for now
horse defeats a spear

IT defeat an archer at Tatu and finally get an AC, we badly need it

9. 370BC
bomb vet JW to 2hp and AC takes it out
e archer beats archer no MGL again

IT :eek: don't know whether the Mayans are on steroids, but they sure bring a lot of units
however they fall for the killing zone I try to create
English also send in quite a few units

10. 350BC
kill another 2 JW in the killing zone
take out 1 English spear and 2 archers for the cost of 1 archer

we have a settler in Karakorum, once we took out those JW, settle next to sugar

the situation
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/handy23350.jpg

Looks like a Mayan GA wave is heading our way. Time to hunker down. :)

Can't see the save at work, but unless we have a bunch of cats (didn't sound like it) I'd stongly advise we set Lisbon (or some 10spt city) on 2 turn cats. Our kill ratio will stink with horses versus Javs and will give the Mayans too many free slaves. Cats are king on a narrow front like this and as a nice side benefit help to train elites. We need cats for Karakorum & Ta Tu, and we need them fast.

Also - pull that spear out of Lagos to induce all the Mayans to go to the same place. We need them concentrated so we can place all cats in the same place. If they do take that city it's not a total disaster like the loss of Karakorum would be.

Also consider switching the archer to a horse for the retreat ability.


1. Greebley
2. Northern Pike skip or swap
3. Obormot (no PC til 1-3-06)
4. ThERat
5. M60A3TTS up
6. romeothemonk
7. Handy

handy, we do have quite a few cats already, that is what made the killing zone possible with 4 cats there.
Also, on the English front we do have some cats. Of course, we need more. We will now get AC slowly and that will help us a lot.

I would keep the rax towns on horses or archers and the rest on cats. But, I guess we need to expand soonish anyway. Let's hope we get an army soon.

handy, we do have quite a few cats already, that is what made the killing zone possible with 4 cats there.
Also, on the English front we do have some cats. Of course, we need more. We will now get AC slowly and that will help us a lot.

I would keep the rax towns on horses or archers and the rest on cats. But, I guess we need to expand soonish anyway. Let's hope we get an army soon.

Okay - just thinking out loud.:)

I would send a settler south of Lisbon on the Pennisula to give us a city to up our unit support.
I also think that we can throw another city due west of Lagos. The Unit support and the minor additional commerce will help keep us strong. Both of those towns will become fishing villages when we eventually can put harbors in them, but by being seafaring, we should actively consider more than normal building cities on the sea.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/Handy24_150_BC.SAV

IBT- 2 Mayan JWs impale themselves on the hilltop defenders.

Turn 1 (330AD) Kill JW that moved onto our vineyards.

Turn 2 (310BC) Lose an elite archer to a 2hp JW. Ancient cav kills JW and captures a worker. Lose another elite archer, and kill 3 more JWs netting another worker.

IBT- Lose a vet archer, Spanish complete Glight.

Turn 3 (290BC) Cats go 0-4. Kill Spear and JW.

Turn 4 (270BC) Cat and horse kill English spear. Horse goes elite. Kill 2 English archers by Ta-tu. Cat JW and kill with vet archer who goes elite.

Turn 5 (250BC) Nassau founded. Only an English and Mayan spear visible. Must be half-time. :crazyeye:

Turn 6 (230BC) Kill an English archer with cats and AC.

Turn 7 (210BC) Kill another English archer by Ta-Tu . Move 3 cats, 4 archers and two spears to attack Warwick. 3 English archers around the town, so this could prove expensive.

IBT- English don’t attack the SoD, but move towards Ta-Tu.

Turn 8 (190BC) We lose an elite horse, but capture Warwick and kill the 2 reg spear defenders. I believe that now separates England from the Mayans. Then kill the 4 English archers that are scattered about. :p

Turn 9 (170BC) Cat and kill JW with elite archer. Nothing.

Turn 10 (150BC) AC goes elite killing English reg archer. Move a settler group north of Ta-Tu.

And done- No decision was made IIRC on Glib, so I have Lit going. Pretty bad luck with elites, but the Mayan hordes came to an abrupt end. Maybe they have trouble brewing elsewhere. Suggest we pound on Lizzy for a bit as she only seems to be kicking out regular archers.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/Handy24_150BC.JPG

:goodjob:
keep on pounding the English. It looks as if we can take their core quickly with Nottingham showing up already. Hopefully we will get an army there and then go after Mayan. The good thing is they will have plenty of slaves from previous war against Mongols (and maybe fighting those barbs).

I would actually vote for the GL, we might be further behind than another continent or Island since we were off to a dreadful start.

hmm im up. Might need a swap with someone.
I can play on Sat at the earliest.

hmm im up. Might need a swap with someone.
I can play on Sat at the earliest.

Ok. I'll play befoe Saturday.

1. Greebley
2. Northern Pike skip or swap
3. Obormot (no PC til 1-3-06)
4. ThERat
5. M60A3TTS up
6. romeothemonk
7. Handy

Switch Lisbon to cat.

Turn 1 130 BC
Lisbon – cat – worker
Kill three English archers
Found Sagres.

Turn 2 110
-

Turn 3 90
Lack of cats at Sagres allows for a regular jav to kill our vet spear.
Elite archer then kills the offending jav.
I sent some cats over to Sagres which arrive next turn.
Kill 4 archers @ Warwick.

Turn 4 70
Kill one archer as we start to make a move on England

Turn 5 50
Karakorum – settler – worker
Three javs show up.
Kill Mayan spear

Turn 6 30bc
Not much.
Elite kills jav.
Going to come at England from another direction.

Turn 7 10bc
Found Coimbra
Kill jav
Trap two English settlers near Sagres. I suppose they were moving toward the unclaimed horse.

Turn 8 10ad
FP message appears.
Six javs in view
Redline a jav but vet archer still loses.
Next archer wins and promotes.
Lose another archer to a redlined archer. :mad:

Turn 9 30ad
Drop slider since lit comes next turn.
Having a bit of trouble gaining traction against all the English archers with so may javs in the north.

Turn 10 50ad
Lit – Poly
Two more elite wins versus England but no leaders.

* Total of 12 jav in view in the north. (Picture Below)
* Consider a quick worker build in Lisbon & GoW since the food box is full.
* You have a tough call at Coimbra. The javs will be there before the road is finished. You may need to pull the workers and cats to the safety of Karakorum next turn.
* We can take England easy if we ever get a leader. If we don’t get a leader soon we will be in big trouble. I’m surprised we have not yet seen any swords yet.

The situation. Need leader asap. ;)

1. Greebley
2. Northern Pike
3. Obormot (no PC til 1-3-06)
4. ThERat
5. M60A3TTS
6. romeothemonk up
7. Handy (swapped woth romeothemonk)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/ad_50.jpg

Endless supply of English

A tough situation, but great annotations to the screenshot. :lol:

Keep going boys! As I learned in the Indian game, it is never over. Go boys, go!

It's dangerous with the JWs about, but definitely let's keep those workers roading between the towns to facilitate lateral movement along that front. It will make reinforcing the threatened towns much easier.

I would also build a galley or two. It can show us how big English (Mayan) land is and more importantly it may discover iron and tell us which way to go. Without pike, knights, and swords the game will be much harder.

IHT: To help make the game make more sense, I read some Lewis Carrol. The game suddenly makes a lot more sense. My path is also clear.
We must hunt for the Snark. I find a spanish galley on our coast. The spanish are also on f4, thus OFF WITH HER HEAD.
Turn 1: Amid the Slithy Toves, Our Hero Rides. Snickersnack whispers the Vorpal blade. (kill 4 javs). Tragedy Strikes! (lose 2 elite archers to a 2 hp spear!) Redemption! (kill 2 english archers)
Turn 2: Enough funny stuff. Roading down to attack on England. A masterful dance of troops to annoy the Maya. No combat other than some bombardment and the annihilation of 2 english archers and a spear.
Turn 3: Decide to lure the Maya further up and further in. Ok now I am mixing up my authors but who cares! Kill 2 English archers with elites, kill jav. Creating a kill zone for the Maya.
Turn 4: Won't you come into my home said the Spider to the Fly. (Kill 3 javs and a spear no losses 2 new elites.) The fly is packing heat though as I see a Maya horsie. I swap GoW to TGL to store all our wonderful books in.
Turn 5: You gotta admire the plumage on the norwegian Blue. (Kill 3 javs, losing an archer but gaining a worker.) Free labor! Our troops misunderstood the Cry of Free Maid Marion and stormed Nottingham. They were greatly dissapointed that they were only supposed to release her from harm. (kill 2 spears and an archer.) Lose an archer but kill an english spear archer combo.
Turn 6: The spanish decide to start something called Sun Tzu's art of War. I perfer Romeo's are of war. I kill 6 javs and a pony for the loss of 2 ponies. I also gained a worker. Both ponies died to the same damaged jav. Our workers, still deluded by the promise of a free Maid Marion, road up nottingham this turn. Leria is founded on Handy's spot. Kill 3 English archers, who were complaining about our treatment at nottingham.
Turn 7: The Maya want to talk. So I tell Smoke-Jaguar some your momma jokes. The war is maintained after a particularly devestating riff on his mother's promiscuity. Look Ma, I caught me a snark! Ahh, its a Boojum. NOOO!! (2 Mayans die)
Turn 8: The New Snark hunter takes to the field. It destroys some javs, but finds no snarks. One of the snark hunters gives himself a promotion for valor in snark hunting. I lose 2 elite archers but capture London. The English positively dislike us. 4 javs and 4 english spears died this turn.
Turn 9: Spot another Maya Secret Weapon, Swords! Poly comes in, switch to Philo due in 4. An elite Jav impales itself flawlessly on one of our beacons of jav guiding. 3 javs are dispatched posthaste, along with 2 english archers and an english spear. I lost 2 spears attacking the same redlined archer.
Turn 10: Dispatch an Englich archer to the Tovey depths. Setup to pull a William Wallace and Sack York next turn. In the north, kill 3 javs and a sword flawlessly, but snarks are proving to be elusive creatures.

I am not gonna pretend to tell you guys what to do, but I think using the army to raze that 1 city to get us to the spices, then pillaging iron and ponies is a good idea. The English are toast, but possible muffins as well.
The Romeo Jav trap is working quite nicely now, and should work for ages to come.

Finally some pics for the lurkers. Players, close your eyes.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/Handy24-1.jpg
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/Handy24-2.jpg
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/Handy24_250_ad.SAV

BTW, have we started the GLib?

Romeo swapped to it in turn 4.

Thanks. Missed that in my perusal. We can definitely use it this game.

Great writeup, Romeo. :rotfl:

I think I am up since Handy swapped. I hope to play today.

Preturn: Looks pretty good.

I think I will capture cities instead of razing them. It will allow us to grow faster.

260 AD: Our Cats do miserably this round up north. We can kill only 2 of the 4 Javelins because of this.
Capture Lagarto (Mayan) with Army
Capture York (English).
270 AD: Advance on all fronts

280 AD: Advance
290 AD:
Capture Tikal (Mayan).

300 AD:
Capture Hastings (English).

310 AD:
Capture Bonampak (Mayan).

Attack Canterbury and Calakmul

Spot the Mayan Iron

320 AD:
Capture Canterbury (English).
Capture Calakmul (Mayan).

330 AD: Healing mostly.

340 AD:

350 AD:
Capture Yaxchilan (Mayan). This is the iron city.
Meet Incans and Declare War (spot galley).
Create an Iron Colony.

Notes:
I stretched a bit to get the Iron. I figured that was important enough that even if we lost a city and had to recapture it, having the iron would still be worth it. We only have 2 towns building military other than catapults - feel free to change this (or start more barracks). I felt we do have enough with these cities building them and wanted to get Libraries in our cities for expansions and the long term part of the game - even if it takes a few more turns to take out the Mayans.

England is likely down to a single city. We should be able to take them out soonish.

I started the FP and went for Monarchy next. We have to decide if we want to revolt right away or wait for the GLib to complete.

I stabbed into the Mayan territory looking for their iron. I actually suspect they had more than one (so still have iron). The reason is that I cut off the Iron and am still seeing swords. The down side is our front line is chaotic. We should be able to stabalize that issue fairly quickly. There is a very nice line in our future and lots of jungle slowing down Mayan encursions. I suspect we will own our whole continent in 20-30 turns.

Started the FP.

Our Curragh is fortified in an attempt to survive the Barbarian attack. If it does live you will need to wake it up.

No landings anywhere. We are at war with the Incans and Spain so they could happen.

In the following picture, if we can take out the city in the NW, We will have only mop up and a lone city. All other Mayan units will be behind that city as a choke (once it has an expansion).

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a251/Greebley/HNDY24_AD350.jpg

1. Greebley
2. Northern Pike up
3. Obormot
4. ThERat
5. M60A3TTS up
6. romeothemonk
7. Handy

Two good turnsets. :goodjob: This game may go industrial (for sure if we miss the GLib).

Remember that the Mayans built the ToA. Finding their capital would be a really good idea. (I like the no scouting ruling, I just find that the AI is likely to wonder build with the capital).

Because of the ToA I would be concerned about flips in Mayan cities.

Ya, we may get flips. However the cost of razing and building a settler seems higher than the rist of losing a unit. You are correct that we should be careful of how many units we put into a city. Having the ToA explains why resistance has been so high. I didn't check the chart. Fortunately, the cities are small for the most part and we are quickly building Libraries to strengthen ourselves.

I've got it.

Finding their capital would be a really good idea. That wil be a really nice wonder to have. :)

450 AD, end of turn (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/HNDY24-450AD.SAV)

350 (0): The barbs sink our curragh (0-1).

The Maya dash around, but don't attack.


360 (1): We take Coventry, held by two spearmen, and eliminate the "Fledgling English". We capture a catapult (2-1).

We cut down two JT around Yaxchilan (4-1).

We get a palace expansion.


370 (2): We defeat a spearman and a JT in Copan, and a swordsman outside it, but there are a lot of Mayan units in the area and there's no question of taking the city this turn (7-1).

We overrun two Mayan spearmen around Tikal (9-1).

Monarchy --> Map Making. I decide to delay our anarchy to give us the best possible chance at the Library. It looks as though we'll have a lull after we cripple or eliminate the Maya, and we can conveniently switch to monarchy then.

The Spanish are building the Great Library and the Incas are building Copernicus.


380 (3): We take Copan from its remaining garrison of two JT and a spearman (12-1). We capture a settler and a catapult.

A forest chop near Nassau reveals BG.


390 (4): Outside cities we bombard and destroy seven JT and a swordsman, losing an asterisked archer (20-2).


400 (5): We slay two JT outside cities (22-2).


410 (6): We defeat one Mayan spearman while beginning our advance on Chichen Itza (23-2).

The Incas complete Sistine Chapel.


420 (7): Ta-Tu library --> worker (food box full).

Lagos barracks --> swordsman.


430 (8): Our cats don't achieve much against Chichen Itza, so I cancel that attack.

We expunge a Mayan spearman near Copan (24-2).


440 (9): We take the Mayan capital of Chichen Itza from its garrison of seven Javelin Throwers, without loss (31-2). We capture the Temple of Artemis and a catapult.

Map Making --> Currency.


450 (10): We slay four JT around Chichen Itza, losing an AC to a redlined JT (35-3) but generating the Great Leader Afonso on our last attack.

We eliminate a JT near Tikal (36-3).

Nineteen elite victories this turn produced one Great Leader.

Some technical problems remain in our war with the Maya--we can't get cats to their isolated eastern cities, and Quirigua is a hill city requiring some caution--but there's no doubt of the outcome. So I think we should leave the army Afonso is about to form empty to await developments, rather than automatically filling it with AC.

Afonso is outside Tikal. A safe course of action would be for Afonso to form an army in Calakmul next turn, and for the army (empty, of course) to then move two tiles towards Coimbra.

We're fighting the Maya with the minimum feasible number of units, but in compensation we'll complete the FP and the HE in the next round.

Since our research at the moment is only an insurance policy in case we don't get the Great Library, it's hard to know what setting is right. Right now we're just at 10%, but I have no strong opinion about this.

We're building four libraries, and the question of whether they should be allowed to complete--since we have the ToA for expansions, but the GL is still uncertain--can be argued either way. We have time to decide in Calakmul, Sagres, and Newcastle, but we have to make the choice in Nassau before hitting Enter. I'd let that one complete.

The resistance in captured Mayan towns is still enormous. I'm fairly sure I've had cities continuously garrisoned for ten turns in which it hasn't diminished at all. Even with the Temple of Artemis, eliminating the Maya looks like the only solution.

I've seen no landings, except one by the Maya next to Chichen Itza after we captured it.

The Incas seem to be playing their usual role as a runaway civ--Sistine Chapel built, Copernicus on the way.

Just to repeat, we're staying in despotism until our Great Library drive has succeeded or failed. Grapes of Wrath (building the GL) can run at its present food deficit for most of the next round, but keep an eye on it.

"Thank you, sir, Maya have another?" ;):

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/HNDY24-450AD.JPG

Hmm, my 2 cents.
I would automatically fill Afonso with AC.
I would build all the libraries.
I would not count on TGL.
I would take the tech rate up quite a bit.
I would actually hope that we can hold Chichen Itza for 5 total turns before education.
I would spam workers to complete operation rape nature in the former Mayan lands. (Cut down all forests and Jungles for irrigation)

I am at work and cannot check, but in the minimap, it looks like a blue city is at the very southern tip of our land.

Obormot recently posted in the c4 SG thread that he may need a skip, so I would suggest that ThERat take it, or we get a ruling from the boss man.

Somewhat undecided on the AC Army, but tend to agree with Romeo. We are probably close to capturing the entire land mass and couldn't transport it by water in the near future without a carrack. Still, if we conquer the landmass, we could defend a good deal of it from the usual AI piecemeal landings with the two armies stationed north and south.

Obormot recently posted in the c4 SG thread that he may need a skip, so I would suggest that ThERat take it, or we get a ruling from the boss man.

Okay with me. Obormot can play after Rat (unless he posts a I got it in the meantime). First to grab go ahead.

I agree with Romeo on all his points except the army where I'm a bit ambivalent.

On one hand it would be great to fill it with 3 Acav & finish the Mayans asap and later use the Acav Army for homeland defense. It could also be sent across the pond as a pillager if need be later on. Certainly not a waste. OTOH a knight army is a big jump in power. Maybe hold it for a turn or two to see how things go. I'm okay either way at this point.

ok I can take it, Obormot has a new job and seems pretty busy. I will play either tonight or tomorrow night.

I am totally against forming an AC army. It seems that we can take out mayans pretty soon. As we can see, Inca and Spain are ahead of us in techs and will catapult us ahead in techs. With carracks, we will be able to sail over to them and get a pillaging army up and running. This is crucial.
I would wait for knights and then send the army overseas.

I would also suggest a carrack spam later on to rule the seas. Of course, that is some time to go.

By the way how many more turns to GL completion?

I am at work and cannot check, but in the minimap, it looks like a blue city is at the very southern tip of our land.

Yes, the Mayan island city we more or less knew about from the blue borders. We have a curragh in that area which will be able to upgrade and carry troops to the island soon.

I think that when you look at the save and see how easy our situation is at the moment, you'll realize that there's no need to settle for a second army weaker than we could have by waiting a little. [Cross-post with Rat.]

Ok, if you guys think that it is the case, I would save the army.
During my turns I was getting between 4-7 mayan units per turn. If that has slowed significantly, than making the army now would be kind of pointless.

Carracks to rule the seas!! And to trigger our G.A.

I don't think we should fill the army with more than 2 units, and I would prefer using knights (if we get the GLib) rather than ACav. Having played before NP, I feel we have sufficient units that a second army is not needed - I would rather have knights pillaging the other continent - this will be much more worthwhile.

So I recommend turning the leader into an army but leave it empty until we find out about the GLib and where we really are in tech.

A 3 movement knight or AC army that does nothing but pillage does the same amount of damage. So the discussion really comes down to survivability or performing in a situational combat role. With regards to survivability, with anything less than cav, I'm not sure the AI would attack a full strength AC army. In terms of combat, no doubt the knight army rules.

Defense 3 will not be attacked by anything before tanks, unless you get one of the cases you are attacked by everything (e.g. if in a town)

I have had defense 2 armies lost on the flats at full health to the Ottomans. Since we cannot know if the Ottomans are in the game, then I say wait.

Also I am not sure our army will be much use until we have another continent to get to. It could be useful for landings at some point, but we weren't getting any yet. An army now probably means we can take out the last town a little earlier (the one surrounded by jungle). One corrupt town does not seem worthwhile to waste and army on when we might have knights when the GLib completes. If I am correct on the mayans having a town off continent (see below), then taking this town will not eliminate the chance of flips.

Check to see if the Mayans have an island town. I vaguely remember such, but it could be Spain. We are going to need some galleys, I think and should start building them, if I am correct.

We are going to need some galleys, I think and should start building them, if I am correct.

For sure. All the 1spt corrupt coastal cities should build boats while inland corrput cities build workers/settlers. Maybe a core coastal or two on boats also.

Irrigate the 1spt cities and hire specialists. No mines in corrupt cities. :)

save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/HNDY24_550AD.SAV)

Pre-Turn
GL will take another 12 turns, swap some southern towns to galleys, we will want to take out Mayans fast

IT Mayans start SunTzu, good :smoke:

1. 460AD
take out 3 JW's but lose AC to redlines JW

2. 470AD
march on to Quirigia, defeat 2 JW that stepped up

IT the Spanish land 2 horses near london where we don't even have defenders
Incan galley shows up near our core where our defenses are paper thin

3. 480AD
scramble AC and horse to take out that threat
while attacking Quirigia get another MGL, that will form an army so we can build the Pentagon
decide to use this army to fill with AC's for home defense later on
new army moves on to Palenque

IT we get massive culture expansion due to ToA :)

4. 490AD
well, next elite attack and we have another MGL, can we say Pentagon?
defeat 3 JW in Palenque but town still stands
GoW can change to non starve mode now without loss of turns for GL

IT currency is in, CoL next in 4, Maya again wants ST and Incans start Bach

5. 500AD
armies need to rest before attacking again, our curragh takes out wounded Spanish galley

6. 510AD
Karakorum finishes FP and rushes Pentagon
take out 2 units and capture Palenque
take out 2 stray JW

7. 520AD
in addition to the Incan galley spot another Spanish, also spot Spnaish borders in the south, must be an Island
land 2 units in the south next to Cuello

IT capital finishes HE

8. 530AD
trying to get more troops since overseas landings will be possible
take out 1 defender and redline the other in Cuello, but it still stands
reduce science to 30%

IT Spanish start KT

9. 540AD
switch off research for now, GL in 3
take that last defender and Cuello is gone
attack Kamin... in the north, advance 1 AC army to the jungle Mayan town

IT :Palenque deposes us

10. 550AD
take Kamin..., take back Palenque
pop a barb hut for 50gold as well
next turn we can take on that jungle town

best news is that we get the GL next turn, all the starving was worth it, now that we can't starve any longer it's still done in 1

I have been following those galleys that head south
suggest to bite the bullet and revolt after getting GL next turn
we need monarchy now

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/handy24550.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/handy24550b.jpg

IT we get massive culture expansion due to ToA :dance:


Great news. :D

Watch out if we start to see Spanish Conquistadors landing in our home. Remember - they get three movement that is penalty free [all terrain the same].

1. Greebley
2. Northern Pike
3. Obormot - online yet?
4. ThERat [just played]
5. M60A3TTS - up
6. romeothemonk
7. Handy

Nice work!
2 armies and the pentagon!!
FP is in!
Were they really english archers? I thought England was dead.
If Spain is on an Island, that is really good news for us. Hope for no horses for spain.
The mass border expansion is really cool! I bet it almost doubled our land area.
I really can't play till Saturday, so no huge rush on the turns, or I can swap with Handy again.

Romeo, if you want to take it, go ahead, as my regular PC is currently in the shop. Will not be able to play until Friday at the earliest.

edit: Guess that would be Handy.

I really can't play till Saturday

Can't play tonight because of prior commitment :) [USC versus Texas] but maybe Thursday. If Obormot turns up he can grab it.

If Spain is on an Island, that is really good news for us. Hope for no horses for spain.Well, I think they just settled on an Island south of our capital. The Incan and Spanish boats seem to come from the same direction somewhere west of our core.

Rat reported Spanish horses landing on the turn 2 IT.

:wavey:
OK, i finally managed to read all the stuff that i missed in this thread :D.
Good work, guys :goodjob:.
I think i'll be able to play on the weekend.

Obormot - go ahead and grab it - I can't grab it Friday or this weekend.

OK, i got it and i'll try to get it played tonight.

I'm out of town on work related stuff for a week, so put me on auto skip. Hope to be back 1-13-06

We seem to have hit an unusual :bump: in the road.

We seem to have hit an unusual :bump: in the road.

I would give Obormot today and tomorrow to play. That will give him 72 hours from his last "I got it" post.

This is going very good, good job so far! Dont reach 20k/100k culture. ;)

can someone please take this and play it, maybe according to the Roster I put up after my turns?

1. Greebley
2. Northern Pike
3. Obormot - online yet?
4. ThERat [just played]
5. M60A3TTS - up
6. romeothemonk
7. Handy

I will try and grab it tonight.

Sorry guys. I'm afraid that I'm going to have to be on indefinite skip. I had to re-install C3C on my PC and I'm getting a file transfer error, so my disk may be bad. :cry: Don't know when I'll replace it. :(

I may have to find a Civ IV SG before too long.

Please continue to stomp the opposition. I'll be standing on the sidelines.

Hmm, that might make me up.

If there are no objections, I will try and play tomorrow (Thursday).

Crack is no longer on sale in my neighborhood, so the write up may be different :p

Go for it. At least I have PTW 1.27 running as a consolation prize.

IHT: This game seems familiar. hmm. deja vu?
Turn 1: Deny a spanish audience. In a twist of events that surprises no one, we hop on the elevator. The illustrious snark hunter kills 3 defenders and we own Pedras Negras. Start building markets and burning down the jungle.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/hnd24-1.jpg
Turn 2: Inca get Sun Tzu, and the spanish get KT. We get a paltry few techs! We get feud, mono, Chivalry and republic, along with construction. Start a revolution. 7 turn anarchy. could be worse, could be raining. Make 14 gold while in anarchy.
Turn 3: End some resistance. Yay! or something. Upgrade an elite star pony to a knight.
Turn 4: In the bad news category, Yaxchillian flips on us. Kill a vet Jav with elite cav, nothing.
Turn 5: Kill 2 units in Lazapa with elites. No leaders. Kill 3 spears in uxachin, and capture. Dispatch of a spanish pony landing. Lose a vet AC to the free pike in Yax, which is now the Mayan capital. The maya will not outlive our anarchy!
Turn 6: la di dah
Turn 7: I'd like to thank the academy for this award!
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/hnd24-2.jpg
Turn 8: We learn theology. WOOT, or something. quelling resistance. Started a galley through an opening.
Turn 9: The Monarchy of Freedonia has begun. Send more women!! Anyway, go through and re MM a bit. Inca start Magellans. Upgrade some troops.
Turn 10: Yes, I know this is AW, but we can handle the trickle of stuff we have seen and we really need some mammoth infra pushing. Incas build copes, and we learn to engineer stuff. Start an invasion force on Valencia.

Thoughts: Valencia is on a small island with it appears 1 Incan city. I say burn them both, resettle and play massive infra push for a while. We can get markets and courts and ducts up all over and then nothing can really catch us later on.
Score
Us 3, Them 0
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/HNDY24_650AD.SAV

Ok, I got it. Handy can probably play after me as he will be getting back around the time I am playing.


1. Greebley [Up]
2. Northern Pike
3. ThERat
4. romeothemonk [Just Played]
5. Handy [On Deck]

Indefinite skip: Obormot, M60A3TTS

Back. Can play this weekend, but back out of town next week.

Handy,
Go ahead and play first then. I am unsure of my schedule this weekend anyway. I will take it after you.

Handy, You able to take this or do you just want a skip?

Sorry for the lack of response, just skip me. Too much to do before I head back out of town and I'm a little under the weather anyway.

Ok, I got it.

Preturn: Minor tweaks

IBT: A landing of 2 units. Our exploring galley sinks.

660AD: Our 2 ACav don't do well. One loses 2 hp to an archer and one loses to the fortified spear.
Kill the landing with no problem.

IBT: Archer comes out of city and kills the other ACav in the forest.

670 AD: Drop off a knight and a MDI - Note that the piece of land is an island.

IBT: Inca start Smiths?? We are way behind. We need to meet someone else before Spain gets Education! Else we miss out on a lot of techs.


680 AD: Lose an MDI vs the Spear in the town.

IBT: We are attacked by an archer and finally win one.

690 AD: Knight vs MDI loses. This is getting silly. We have made zero progress on the island. I want to take it out because it supplies Inca with both Horses and Iron.

700 AD:

710 AD: Landed right on the iron this time.

IBT: Bad news. We got Education before we got Invention or met anyone else. GLib is not very useful this game. I start research on Invention.

720 AD: Pillage iron.

730 AD: Well our ship made it and we got contact... two turns late. Very Painful.
Our Knight is on a mountain to defend better.
Attack Valencia with 2 Elite ACav. Win for a change.

IBT: MDI brings our knight to 1 hp (retreat) taking no damage. MDI underneath is exposed.
There is a landing on our continent 3 MDI.

740 AD: MDI kills an Longbow. Probably dead.
Capture Valencia. We lose a knight attacking an injured MDI on the flat. RNG has been attrocious tonight.

IBT: Yup, MDI dies. The knight will escape onto the boat though.

750 AD:

Notes:

Lagartero is surrounded by irrigated lands when it is close enough to our capitol to be a real city. I have noticed a tendency to irrigate too close to our capitol Cities that will be viable when the FP is built are over-irrigated which wastes workers time, or worse a productive city. We need to get workers back into that area to do so. There are some on the road to the north.

I will mark the Incan landing spot on our map.

Not getting the techs from the AI is going to hurt. We missed out on getting all the way to Economics and Navigation. Haven't seen muskets yet.

We have 2 settlers and an empty army. Seemed no point to fill the army until we find a way to get to the AI.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a251/Greebley/HNDY24_AD750.jpg

I've got it.

Greebley, as far as I can tell you didn't indicate the Incas' landing spot on the screenshot. Where was it?

I forgot to save the picture after putting the dot on it. Argh! It was near Sagres where you see the catapults.

OK, thanks.

850 AD, end of turn (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/HNDY24-850AD.SAV)

760 (1): We resume the ill-starred advance on Nasca, defeating an Incan MDI/LB pair (2-0).

A Spanish galley departs from AI doctrine and attacks one of our galleys, but fails (3-0).

An Incan LB attacking out of Nasca kills of one of our pikemen (3-1).

Lagos aqueduct --> library.


770 (2): We trample the troublesome Incan LB around Nasca (4-1).


780 (3): We overrun a Spanish (yes) archer on the Nasca front (5-1).

Our bad RNG luck in the slow advance on Nasca continues, as the town holds another LB which redlines/retreats a knight, though the knight was on a mountain.

Ta-Tu aqueduct --> pikeman, GoW library --> marketplace.


790 (4): Invention due in one, but I can only cut the research rate to 70%.

We regroup around Nasca, where we have too many depleted units. I don't think I'll make this attack until we've built up a force that can't fail. It's not as though we can attack anywhere else at the moment, so there's no hurry.

Invention --> Astronomy, due in eleven turns at 70% and a slight deficit.

Nottingham aqueduct --> library.

The Incas are building Newton. :eek:


800 (5): The Incas must have the greatest longbow force since Agincourt in Nasca. :rolleyes: Two more LB attack our stack outside the city, which is now fortified on a mountain, and both die (7-1).

Finally some action on the coastal-defense front, as the Incas land three knights near Chichen Itza--right where we have a good force of cats, fortunately.


810 (6): The Snark Hunters ride down two Incan knights at Chichen Itza, after effective cat bombardment (9-1).

BG library --> knight, Lagartero aqueduct --> courthouse.


820 (7): We pick off the final Incan knight around Chichen Itza (10-1).

The Incas land next to CI again--just one knight this time.

Karakorum library --> knight.


830 (8): We pick off another Incan LB in skirmishing around Nasca (11-1).

We dispose of the latest Incan knight around CI (12-1).

We found Evora next to an unused wheat tile in the former Mayan lands.


840 (9): We finally discover the last rival civ, Sumer, and declare war.


850 (10): We storm and raze Nasca with a redundantly large force, eliminating the garrison of two pikemen without loss (14-1) and gaining two slaves. We defeat a last Incan LB in the area (15-1).

Our main activity this round was building aqueducts. In that sense, we're paying quite a price for accepting the AI's wretched city placements, though we had to do it.

Five elite victories this round didn't produce a Great Leader.

We've been getting away with building infrastructure and maintaining a dubious coastal defense, since the AI civs have been landing infrequently (just the two Incan landings next to Chichen Itza, this round) and in a convenient place. We'll complete five knights in the next five turns, which should give us more security.

It might be worth setting up a settler trap where we razed Nasca (a spot with iron and horses, though we know the Incas have iron), if we feel we can spare the necessary units.

This looks like the right time for our GA, which we'll soon be able to trigger with a Carrack.

The Incas are working on Newton, so we need to get a pillaging army to their lands as soon as possible.

The idea behind Tikal's granary build is to use the town as a worker pump.

Grapes of Wrath, Sagres, and Chichen Itza are all unusually micromanaged, the former two because they're about to finish their builds, CI to get the benefit of a forest chop.

The Incan caravel near Lazapa has already landed its units, unless the AI is doing something strange.

We have two settlers in Nassau, and an empty army next to Karakorum.

New discoveries:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/HNDY24-850AD.JPG

I am glad I sent that army up north near Chichen. I saw no activity there on my own turns, but felt an army to the north was probably a good idea.

Agree we need better defense. Also we are far behind in tech. Relying on the GLib was probably a mistake this game - we would be in a better position if we hadn't built it but kept on researching. Meeting one strong and one weak civ (only) is a bad combination.

Sorry guys that i disappeared like this, but things were really busy for me and besides that i seem to be a bit burned out at the moment. I think i'll take a break from SG's now for several months. I'll be watching your game though. Good luck.

By looking at teh Incas, it looks like the Incas killed the Carthagians, seeing as Sabratha is a carthagian name. Btw, a great game so far nonetheless. :clap:

ok, got it, will play tonight. It is clear we need a few caravels as soon as possible to send over a knight army to start pillaging.

Obormot, it's ok, take it easy.

By looking at teh Incas, it looks like the Incas killed the Carthagians, seeing as Sabratha is a carthagian name.

Good observation. That probably explains why we've had so few landings. I know from using the diplo button to declare war on the Sumerians, though, that the Carthaginians are still alive.

save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/HNDY24-950AD.SAV)

Pre-Turn
2 turns to astronomy and carracks and our golden age
will gather some knights for the army to be sent over
MM a little bit

1. 860AD
no event, reduce science to 60% for astronomy

IT Inca lands 1 knight in the north
astronomy is in, next is gunpowder

2. 870AD
upgrade 3 galleys to carracks
defeat the knight

3. 880AD
2 carracks sail from the small Island to our main continent to pick up the army on the way

4. 890AD
carracks are sail towards overseas via the shortest estimated route
send some units to the north to help defend there, we are paper thin there
found Braga on the Island

IT :eek: 5 MDI's land next to Chichen Itza in the north

5. 900AD
army kills 3 MDI, but Chichen Itza might be taken for a turn
army is almost reaching overseas

IT what? Incas raze Chichen Itza, well now we got space for tighter settlement

6. 910AD
kill the remaining 2 intruders
drop our army and an additional knight overseas

IT Carthago has some galley sailing near our land in the south
spot some Incan Cav's running towards our yet to be filled army
we get gunpowder

7. 920AD
we do have salt
attack galley
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/handy24920.jpg

start to pillage and move towards Seville that is merely defended by a spear
MM and we get chemistry now in 5

8. 930AD
discover a small offshore Island near the main other continent, this will be a good stepping stone
resume pillaging towards the north where the Incans are

IT Carthago lands 2 units on the Island, we need more carracks to fight off invasions

9. 940AD
defeat a full (assume) Spanish galley, but lose another
while pillaging pick up 3 spanish workers that are disbanded

IT really bad RnG gets us to lose Valencia against a sword (pike was inside)

10. 950AD
nothing mch, move some units to retake Valencia
pillager army clims an iron moutain and spots Incan worker that looks pretty industrial
we need to pillage them back to stoneage

I also suggest to gather some forces to take that Island, for now I still pushed quite some infra
we have a settler iin the north, we can settle 2 more cities there to fill the gaps created by Chichem Itza

the hopping Island
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/handy24950a.jpg

pillager in action
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/handy24950b.jpg

1. Greeble
2. Northern Pike
3. ThERat
4. romeothemonk up
5. Handy

Ill get to this tomorrow.
Looks like fun!!

Good work getting the pillaging army over to Incaland. :goodjob:

rl got in the way here. need a swap or a skip.

Okay. I go it.

1. Greeble
2. Northern Pike
3. ThERat
4. romeothemonk (swap with handy)
5. Handy playing

Turn 1 960
A galley defeats one of our carracks. We are pillaging and building a lot of markets so our cities can get bigger with no luxury tax.

Turn 2 970
Chemistry – Metal (5)
Accumulating forces the take the midway island. May not get enough units this set. By the end of this set we will have a good economy, almost have MT, and the Inca will be pillaged some. Should go pretty well after we upgrade cats to cannon and get some cav.

Turn 3 980
Incas landed some archer & warriors on the IBT. We kill a couple and will clean it up next turn.
Lose two Acav in the attack of Valencia while killing two NM. We’ll take it next turn.
Sending all the cats on go to orders toward the jump off point for the sea crossing.

Turn 4 990
The Inca have rifles, but soon they will have no tile improvements either. :D
We take Valencia.

Turn 5 1000
Inca build Smith and Newton and Magellan. With these wonders done the troop landings will increase. I’ll spread the knights we have around for a little better defensive response.

Turn 6 1010
IBT landings at Valencia. Odds favor a defensive play there.

IBT
Defenders win at Valencia and we pop a Leader. :D
Inca drop two cav and at Valencia (must be oil there)
MT due in 5 for us -25 GPT, which should get better as markets come on line.

Turn 7 1020
Lose acav and Knight killing only one cavalry at Valencia.
Withdraw from Valencia to ponder this a bit. The leader has been evacuated but we may lose those towns before we can reinforce them. Not a big deal, better that than the Inca attacking the mainland.

Turn 8 1030
Second Knight Army sets sail for the mainland. :hmm: I’m having second thoughts that I should have saved it for cavalry, but there is a lot left to pillage. It will also useful as cover for a stack of cannon & cavalry to start working on the other continent.

Turn 9 1040
The second army arrives to begin to pillage.

IBT
Army is attacked by a cavalry, but survives.

Turn 10 1050
Not much fighting happened except we lost Valencia. Lots of pillaging and market building.
MT due in 2 +74 gpt. Many markets & libraries now on line and our military production is ramping up quite nicely. Building these left us a little exposed but long term should have a nice impact.
Second army needs to heal a bit before it begins to pillage.
The Inca are about 1/3 pillaged, and their capital will be fully pillaged in a turn.
I did not attack much with carracks, but going forward you may want to ramp up naval production and sacrifice a few carracks instead of having to deal with cavalry landings since we are pretty exposed in some areas. Once we get MT we can lower science to upgrade knights & cannon, but I do think we will have time to get to steam (and use it) in this game.

1. Greebley (up unless romeo can get it)
2. Northern Pike
3. ThERat
4. romeothemonk - swapped
5. handy - just played

good progress, 2 pillager armies will spell doom for Incans.
We definitely need steam for a good home defense.

We should make sure all saltpeter is pillaged to get some crappy units from them.

The second pillager pretty much sealed the deal. Once we get a few cav we can use one of the armies as cover for cannon and cav. This leads to elite wins with cav and then cav armies and a big snowball. :D

The wife has a tupperware party on Tuesday, leaving me to fend for myself. That of course means microwave burritos and Civ.

Woot.

IHT: Romeo sits down to play. He grumbles that there are no frozen burritos. He has to eat roast beef sandwiches on hotdog buns. He is sufficiently grumpy now.
HE then surveys the scene and starts singing "Pillage the Inca" to the tune of "Kill the wabbit" Maybe Bugsy can put it to music?
IBT: A sumerian galley sinks a carrack. Please.
Turn 1: Kill a knight out of a 3 unit landing. It is best to play D with the remaining MDI.
IBT: Kill 2 MDI on Defense. Lose an AC and a pike near Valencia.
Turn 2: MT comes in, physics in 4. (Sounds like a college chant.) Build Luanda, setup to assualt the halfway island. Dang the Inca had a 4 cow start, no wonder the dominance. Even the AI can't screw that up too badly. Use a carrack to sink an Incan galley.

IBT: The play by play breaks down around here

Start the assualt on Ica in 1100 AD. Also start the assault on Valencia. The Inca had a lot of resources hooked up. Note the tense used.

In 1110 we took Ica. Carracks prove quite Handy :) as we sink a galley. Also stop a spanish landing near valencia.
IN 1120 we liberate Arquipa. Will abandon and replace, but keep it for now. With a cannons help, sink a caravel.

IN 1150 we capture Valencia and begin the masive invasion that will spell the doom of the Inca.

I have my doubts that I will see this one again.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/hnd24-3.jpg
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/HNDY24-1150AD.SAV

Ok, I got it.

Preturn: Only minor changes.

IBT: Our landed stack is attacked. Large number of units seen on the move. 5 units landed on the island.

1160 AD: Cover landing with army. Otherwise it will be quickly overwhelmed. We could have 5x the number of units and the outcome would still be against us.
We can only kill 4 of the 5 that landed. Move the Catapults back to bombard the landing on the mountain. Kill a Caravel, but it costs us 2 boats (the first red-lined, the second missed entirely).

1170 AD: Our 13 cats and trebs can only do 1 hp to 1 Rifle.

1180 AD: This time we do much better and Raze the town.

1190 AD: Army heals

1200 AD: Kill a settler, rifle, MDI trying to resettle the city site.

1210 AD: Start heading for Tiwanaku. Figure I will head through Inca territory razing as I go.

IBT: A longbow attacks my Northern army. I am not sure why. It does enough damage the Cavalry start attacking it and kill it.

1220 AD:

1230 AD: Attempt an attack on a size 12 city, but we just don't have good enough Artillery power.

1240 AD: Go to pick up more units.

1250 AD:

Notes:
I am waiting for the drop off of 3 cannon. I feel we need this to add to the stack so we can raze the Incan cities more easily. Our current stack has lots of cats, but cats just don't do well vs Rifles in size 12 towns. See the picture below.

Didn't get a leader. This is too bad as I wanted to replace the one lost to the north. Note that the incans are willing to attack armies next to towns with longbows. No idea why - I haven't observed this before.

I did some boat attacks but had horrid luck even against galleys.

Keep a decent number of troops on the island off the Incan coast. You can get landings of up to 5 strong units there. The current units may not be quite enough. Additional cannon are heading to the island and may want to stay there.

I abandoned the Incan city on the island. We have a settler to replace it. This is well worth doing as it allows boats to land with troops to move them faster.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a251/Greebley/HNDY24_AD1250.jpg

Yes, I wondered about our sending cataputs over to Incaland, although I know there was almost no gold available for upgrades.

I've got it.

I sent the cats over to do something with them.

I figured that they couldn't overwhelm the stack on the first turn, and then Greebley would cover them with the army.

On the army attack, did you have the AIpatrol thingy changed? I have read previously that it can effect attacks, and lead to random attakcs on armies.

Did we put a 4th unit in the army? On my turns one army had only 3 knights IIRC.

1. Greebley
2. Northern Pike playing
3. ThERat
4. romeothemonk
5. handy

No, it only had the 3. It had no chance to pick up the other unit. I suspect you are right Romeo, that the AI randomly attacked the army and the unit got lucky enough to do enough damage to get it low enough so the Cat killed it - we lost a lot of HP to that longbow.

I am not sure I checked if the covering army of the cats had 4 units. Do check this NP. If we are at risk of random attacks, then we definitely want 4 units in the army.

I don't think we could upgrade the cats. We need Steam ASAP, IMO. When we get the cannon with the stack, then I think with a little luck we can get the HP of the defenders enough so we can Raze some towns.

On the army attack, did you have the AIpatrol thingy changed? I have read previously that it can effect attacks, and lead to random attakcs on armies.

With the partol enabled you will occassionally have a unit stumble into your armies. Without it they do not.

With the partol enabled you will occassionally have a unit stumble into your armies. Without it they do not.

Unless your army is an old army and is facing more modern units. ;)
Btw, be careful, sometimes, the AI attacks stacks of muskets. I think.

1300 AD--Carrack shipping empty army still has movement (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/HNDY24-1300AD.SAV)

1250 (0): The army covering our SoD already contains four units. :goodjob:

Lagartero temple --> cav, Evora courthouse --> marketplace.


1255 (1): By moving our SoD next to Tiwanaku last turn and leaving two Inca slaves behind, we bikini-babed the Incas and Carthaginians, who sent at least eight units our way. So, we're able to pick off two Inca cav and a Carthaginian LB, though we lose a cav to a redlined cav (3-1). We generate the Great Leader Cabral when we overrun the LB.

We found Alcacer do Sal on Ica Island.

We wipe out a Spanish landing force of two Crusaders and a Conquistador on Ica Island (6-1).

Braga harbour --> carrack.


1260 (2): Cabral forms the First Cavalry Army in Ica.

We cut down another Spanish landing force on Ica Island, this one three Crusaders (9-1).

Around Tiwanaku we destroy three Inca cav, an Inca LB, and a Carth LB (14-1).

On defense we lose a musketman (to a Sumerian swordsman/horseman team on Ica Island), defeat an Inca LB, and sink a Spanish caravel (16-2).


1265 (3): We defeat the Sumerian swordsman and horseman on Ica Island (18-2).

Around Tiwanaku we eliminate an Inca rifleman, three Inca LB, and a Carth LB (23-2).

Magnetism --> Steam Power, due in sixteen turns.

Palenque marketplace --> cannon.


1270 (4): Around Tiwanaku we expunge six Inca units--two riflemen, three LB, and an MDI--and a Numidian. We lose a cav (30-3).

We found Guarda on the Inca continent.

We wipe out the latest Sumerian landing on Ica Island, an Enk and an archer, but somehow lose a full-strength cav attacking the archer (32-4).


1275 (5): With our new cav army in position to do most of the work, we raze Tiwanaku, held by four riflemen (36-4). We collect 42 gold and three slaves, and destroy Newton.

Around Guarda we extirpate two Carth LB and a Carth MDI (39-4).


1280 (6): We get our SoD moving towards Cuzco.

We defeat an Inca LB which attacks Guarda (40-4).


1285 (7): We destroy a Carth stack of a musketman, an LB, and an MDI next to Guarda (43-4). In the first attack we generate the Great Leader Dias, who immediately forms the Second Cavalry Army.


1290 (8): We cut down two Carth LB landed next to Nassau--the first landing on our home continent this round (45-4).

We bombard and wipe out three Spanish Crusaders next to Guarda (48-4).


1295 (9): We move our SoD next to Cuzco, adding nine cannon brought in by sea.

We lose a cav attacking a Carth LB outside Guarda--but we really can't complain about the RNG, since our next attack on the LB produces the GL Cabrillo (49-5), and so the Third Cavalry Army.

We repel an Inca LB which attacks Guarda (50-5).


1300 (10): We get a good preliminary bombardment against Cuzco, with even our cats contributing well, so I shouldn't have cast aspersions on them. ;) With two cav armies then doing the hardest work, we defeat the garrison of twelve riflemen and a cav for the loss of one cav (63-6). We capture two workers and seize 96 gold. We raze the city, establishing ourselves forever as history's leading Philistines since it contains five Wonders :D, and gain another four workers.

We trample two Inca LB around the ruins of Cuzco (65-6).

We slay another Spanish Crusader outside Guarda (66-6).

Twenty-four elite victories this round, two of them defensive, produced three Great Leaders.

Well, Handy was certainly right about the cannon --> elite victories --> cav armies sequence. There's still some work to do, but this position is an easy win now. We could even turn off research, though I'm not actually advocating it.

We have a carrack in Guarda, still with its full movement, carrying an empty army and an asterisked elite cav which should go into the army. I'd drop the units off on our SoD (to the NW), which contains enough veteran cav to fill up the army, but I haven't done it so as to leave the next player with some flexibility.

Soon we should be able to move more quickly against the Incas, at least where coastal cities are concerned, by transporting our cannon in ships and leaving the older bombardment units behind.

There was only one minor landing on our home continent this round. Ica Island was a very popular landing site, as Greebley predicted, until we founded Guarda, whereupon most of the action (including Spanish landings) moved there. Ica Island is rather lightly held now, but since it's directly on our main shipping route I think this should be all right.

When the workers near Nottingham finish their present job, they should attend to that tile near BG which for some reason isn't fully developed.

If the conquest/domination question comes up, I vote as usual for conquest. :cool:

Inca roads:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/HNDY24-1300AD.JPG

We raze the city, establishing ourselves forever as history's leading Philistines since it contains five Wonders :D, and gain another four workers.



Actually the Philistines were quite advanced and more "cultured", much more so than the Jews. Kind of funny that the saying got flipped.
Wonder what the trick was? :D

Anyway, great round. Keep it up guys, and I vote for Conquest as well, cause maybe I'll see another round.

got it, I vote for conquest as well....more fun that way.

Actually the Philistines were quite advanced and more "cultured", much more so than the Jews. Kind of funny that the saying got flipped.
Wonder what the trick was? :D

Hey, a chance to use [offtopic] :lol:.

It took a long time for the Philistines to acquire their present associations. The Oxford English Dictionary suggests that circa 1800 German university students started using the word in its older sense of "enemy" for the townsmen around them--relations between students and townies could be incredibly violent in the nineteenth century, whether in Europe or America--and that the association of the Philistines with want of learning and culture grew naturally from this usage.

save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/HNDY24-1350AD.SAV)

Pre-Turn
ship the army to the north, fill it with 3 Cavs
fire all those taxmen, MM a little and we go from steam in 10 at-4gpt to 9 turns with +1gpt

IT Spanish conquistadores are running around, we gotta be careful about that
win 2 on defense at Guarda

1. 1305AD
defeat 3 units including a settler pair and start the slow march towards Machu Picchu

IT 2 units are killed at Guarda [7-0]

2. 1310AD
use a new frigate to take out a caravel, but just only
while the stack move towards Macchu Pichhu, send 3 armies to Vilcas
defeat 1 unit near Guarda
cossack sinks an Incan caravel near the unclaimed Island

3. 1315AD
attack Vilcas, cav aries doing a bad job, killing 2 rifles but getting pretty wounded
defeat 2 more units and raze town, but all armies are heavily wounded, however now enemy in sight
defeat 1 unit next to Guarda

found Castelo Branco and increase science to get steam in 5

IT Spain and Carthago are showing up with knights now

4. 1320AD
defeat 3 units outside Guarda, wounded armies now covered by the main stack
sink a Spanish galley

IT apparently the Incas managed to hook up both salt and horses as I see a cav running about

5.1325AD
sink another Carthagian caravel near our shores
disconnect the horses, can spot that iron is hooked up as well
decide to send some additional Cavs up north for support of the attack
our stack is next to the Incan capital now

6.1330AD
start bombardment of capital, count 6 rilfes including a drafted unit
our armies are too wounded to let them attack

drop 5 Cavs next to a settler pair

IT you can always count on AI :smoke: as Carthago drops a 1hp knight in front of Guarda

7. 1335AD
defeat 4 units putside Guarda, lose first unit during my turns
many victories and agin no promotion even, no need to talk about MGL luck
lost another 2 Cavs taking out the settler pair

our arty stack does a lousy job and knocks only 6 hp down
use one slightly healed army to take out 2 rifles in Macchu

reduce science to 40%

IT steam comes in, next nationalism

8. 1340AD
we are blessed with 4 coals sources :)
Macchu has been drafted down to pop5, bombard it relentlessly, everything is red and pop is 3
defeat 6 rifles and 1 LB and Copernicus is gone

Villacamba seems our next logical target to replenish cavs and take home those slaves

IT :eek: Carthago comes and attacks with a Cav, but our musket defends well

9. 1345AD
pillage a salt source on the way to Villacamba
decide to pull back knight army to start campaign in the south
kill the usual 2 units at Guarda

try and coordinate the RR mission by grouoping workers properly, we have too few of them anyway
ship 6 Cavs north to help out at Villacamba

while trying to adjust science rate programme crashes, lucky the Civ4 paranoia makes me save all the time

10. 1350AD
defeat 3 units at Guarda, what's up all the elite wins an no leader, next player will have more luck I guess
dropped 6 cavs and forgot to pick up the workers, please do so, we need them to RR main continent

ship chain works well and there is a constant flow of units coming to Guarda
we have quite a few cannons inside that are good to repell the constant attacks

knight army on the way to pull south

nationalism due in 8
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/handy241350.jpg

1. Greebley
2. Northern Pike
3. ThERat
4. romeothemonk playing
5. handy

I like those 4 cows and a wheat by Machu Picchu. What a nice start that would have been! :D

I like those 4 cows and a wheat by Machu Picchu. What a nice start that would have been! :D

Yeah with iron and incense close by

I see it and can play tomorrow evening.

Yeah with iron and incense close by

Dye and Gems are also close.

Kinda odd to go for nationalism, but 6 defense really does beat 4. I will do the research towards RP, which is the killer AW tech.
Carthage decides that it is a good time to start Shakespeare's. I guess they really bought into the whole bread and circus concept pretty hard.
I captured Vilacambria. Why? It has Magellan's and as a bonus a rax.
I use the creative thinking part of my brain to solve 2 problems at once. I lower our staggering unit costs by disbanding our native cats to build a library in Vila.

Interesting, the Inca and Sumeria are at war!! The Inca are all heading to Vila, so I break the ship chain and just start sending stuff there instead.
Semi-sloppy play style here, but it is efficient and we are making progress.

I split up into 3 army groups to hasten the death of the Inca.

I got the "Honey, it's bedtime warning" from my better half. It is good to listen to her.

The 4 Incan towns should fall in the next 3-5 turns, several on the next turn.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/HNDY24-1390AD.SAV

We got nationalism, Then I started Electricity.

Sounds good. :goodjob:

Ok, now I will post more thoughts and stuff.
I played 8 turns, in roughly 80 minutes.
The workers are more organized, but the shipping is a mess. I have been diverting from the original plan of shipping to sink enemy ships. I bombard with frigates and attack with Carracks. When I bombard and then attack with frigates, the frigate loses, but I haven't lost a carrack yet, and sent probably 6 ships to the bottom.
The Spanish attack Guardo or whatever that city is, mostly with Conquistadors. The elite musket died, and needs to be replaced. ( I Suggest rushing a rifle).
Carthage has cavs now, so perhaps they should die soon.
I only lost 3 units this round, so to curb runaway unit costs, a lot more towns are on infra.

[offtopic]

For more on "philistines" see:

http://www.authorama.com/culture-and-anarchy-5.html

The pertinent section is about three paragraphs down the page.

Interesting. Very interesting. Can't say that I have often perused Mr. Arnold's work, eschewing it for Mr. Barry's works. I guess that makes me a stiff necked enemy of the children of light. Or not.

Nice to track down some of the root causes of some vernacular slang.

Cmon, lets get back in the game.:bounce: :D

i think romeo still has it

I can finish tomorrow morning. If I haven't posted my turns by noon my time, consider my turn finished and play from the save I posted.

Or if you want, play directly from my post.

Hmm Well the last 2 turns were kind of eventful.

I got 2 MGL's and rushed the Mil academy and built a 4th cav army. The 4 cav army only has 3 cavs in it. The Mil acadmy is in Vilacambria. Why, I don't think the flip risk is all that sever now.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/hnd24-4.jpg
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/hnd24-5.jpg
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/hnd24-6.jpg

Now I guess I can say I don't expect to see this one again. :p

Go team

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/HNDY24-1400AD.SAV

Looking good. :) I will play Friday

Whoa, the Incas were sitting on a lot of gold. :eek:

Spent the first few turns moving units to the south, then the Spanish took a beating. :D


Turn 1 1405
I usually skip temples and go for another luxury, but it won’t matter in this one.
Moving south

Turn 2 1410


Turn 3 1415

Turn 4 1420
We take & keep Leptis Minor. 5 resistors out of 10 pop.

Turn 5 1425
Resistance ends in Leptis

Turn 6 1430
We raze Spanish city, forgot to record the name.

Turn 7 1435
Capture Seville so I can build an army with our new leader. If it flips we can take it back or raze it later.

Turn 8 1440
Capture Utica.

Turn 9

Turn 10 1450
Barcelona is no more. :D
We got 5 slaves from a pop 11 city, so we can probably keep the rest of Spain from here on out.
RP due in 8 turns. Then we can hire engineers to speed temple builds to gain more tiles. We have a bunch of cash for artillery upgrade if you feel like we need it.
I think we end this before we get to TOE, so I did not begin a pre build.
Carthage has a caravel in the straights near Sumeria, but we have a decent road network to deal with it.

Here is a picture at 1450 ad

1. Greebley up
2. Northern Pike
3. ThERat
4. romeothemonk
5. Handy


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/1450ad.jpg

Greebley

I forgot :blush: to move loaded ships that are in Ica and Lagos. You can move them before you hit enter.

ok, I got it

My turn was pretty straight forward. I eliminated cities on the home continent and then rushed galleons to get ships to the islands. All but the ancient cavalry units had 4 units so we couldn't use any of our cavalry armies.

Carthage and Spain are both destroyed, only Sumeria remains.

We Captured Lagash and killed Sumeria's extra units. We then got pretty unucky with a flip. In fact I thought we had enough Cavalry to eliminate flip risk. Guess we were a bit short.

We still have plenty of units for the invasion and the units have landed this turn. This includes an empty army that I created with the one leader I got.

The rest is fairly simple mop up. There is one Sumerian island to deal with. I don't expect it to take many turns.

Note that I set things up for a conquest win (thus eliminating the islands). We are at 60% if so domination is close and needs to be watched. We don't have much in the way of expanding borders though so it is pretty safe.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a251/Greebley/HNDY24_AD1500.jpg

I am guessing we will have won in 4-8 turns.

One other warning. Sumeria has been occasionally attacking our boats.

Could we replay this map as an AWD with the Incan start?

Just tossing that Idea out there.

@romeothemonk -- The Inca start looks like a monster. If the team wouldn't mind a lurker borrowing it, exactly how would I go about doing that replay?

My problem with playing Inca would be that I know the map too well. Knowing were the AI is for example is a huge advantage. Better would be to play with ppl that didn't know the map with those that have some knowledge going last.

I've got it.

Good progress. I totally forgot about the Acav armies. I could have sent the to the islands & added a cav.

I need to break from SG's for a while. I'm overloaded on work issues right now and need to get through with some projects before I come back, so don't wait on me to start another one.

1515 AD--end turn and win (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/HNDY24-1515AD.SAV)

1500 (0): I rush two settlers. With a tactical town to cover the gap between Ur and Sumer we should be able to do this in three turns.

We defeat the attack of a Sumerian caravel (1-0).

We get two palace expansions.


1505 (1): We bombard and take Lagash, held by three musketmen, without loss (4-0). Our first attack produces the Great Leader Magellan and so another army.

We bombard and seize Ur, held by four musketmen and an LB, without loss (9-0).

We bombard and storm Umma, held by three musketmen, without loss (12-0).

A Sumerian galley sinks attacking one of our frigates (13-0).


1510 (2): We found the tactical town of The End.

We take Sumer from its garrison of four musketmen, though we lose two cav. We sink a caravel when we enter the town (18-2).

We land six cav and two artillery next to Hadrumetum, which turns out to be held by Enks.

We defeat one musketman in Bad-Tabira (19-2).

In a final show of fighting spirit, the Sumerians land an MDI/LB team near Umma.


1515 (3): We take Hadrumetum from its garrison of two Enks, sinking a caravel when we enter the town (22-2).

We found the tactical town of The Other End near Kish.

We bombard and take Kish, held by three musketman and a pikeman (26-2).

We ride down the MDI/LB team (28-2).

We bombard and raze Agade, held by two musketmen, and eliminate the "Strong Sumerians" (30-2).

We abandon Cadiz to get down to 65%.

Seven elite victories this round produced one Great Leader.

Well, another efficient and decisive performance. Even the cramped start didn't matter, though I suppose bad RNG luck when we archer-rushed the Mongols might have beaten us. Congratulations to all.
:dance: :rockon: :banana:
:woohoo:

I'd be interested in the next game in this series (GR rather than HNDY, apparently--sorry you're so busy, Handy), but due to travel I won't be able to play again until March 7. So I suppose it depends on the timing--if we aren't going to start until about Feb. 21, I'd like to play, but if we're going to begin immediately, I'd better stand aside.

Sumer's end:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/HNDY24-1515AD.JPG

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/HNDY24-1520AD.JPG

Congrats, but it looked a little too easy (maybe I'm wrong).

I sincerely hope this isn't the last.

Awesome job! :goodjob: It was great to see how the pillaging armies rolled up the runaway AI. Congrats!

Congrats, but it looked a little too easy (maybe I'm wrong).
I think they make it LOOK easy because they're so good at doing it. I'm impressed! :D

Thanks to the lurkers for your comments. :cool:

Congrats, but it looked a little too easy (maybe I'm wrong).

As Handy says, if you're not advancing in AW, you're probably losing. So any AW game that's won at all is likely to be a steady succession of triumphs, and may look a little easy in retrospect.

It wasn't an easy starting position at all, but at this point we might simply be pretty experienced for this kind of game. :goodjob:

As it looks, we are going for a break(?) until we try again? What is left for us to play? all random AWDG?

Congratulations, I'd say AWDG with civ of your team's choice.:D

It wasn't an easy starting position at all, but at this point we might simply be pretty experienced for this kind of game. :goodjob:

Yeah. This was a hard start with a crappy civ and we pulled it off. Well played!!

I'll lurk when I can and hope to be back when the storm passes. I'm just too gassed when I get home to play right now. Need a break to charge the batteries a bit. :)

I'll lurk when I can and hope to be back when the storm passes. I'm just too gassed when I get home to play right now. Need a break to charge the batteries a bit.hope your tough schedule and pressure at work will ease, because a game without handy is just not the grumpy game we are used to.

hope your tough schedule and pressure at work will ease, because a game without handy is just not the grumpy game we are used to.

Thanks, but I think I've been the weak link in these games for a while now. :lol:

Nicely done :goodjob:
I hope i'll see another handy's game of civ3 AW.
Anybody wants to start another one now? Perhaps a small or tiny map and/or more relaxed roster (without the 24/72 rule)? We could try a crappy start awdg or great start aws.

One thing that I have considered trying is a Tiny Pangea map with a single SID level enemy. Sort of a sid "duel" map in civ3. Would this interest anybody?

I am afraid that this may actually be quite easy, we can just use the same strategy we used in this game: develop one city quickly to 10spt and build a couple of spears and a dozen of archers. Then we can cripple the AI relatively quickly.

I actually have a strategy of my own, get a stack of arches, maybe with one or 2 spears, and start heading towards the opponents city, then, while all their units are on the way to your city(because you are in war), their cities are left with only 2-3 spears.:)

Yes, you don't need anything more complicated to win on tiny pangaea, even on sid level, that's why i don't like the idea. AW may change this a bit though, but i still don't think it'll be interesting.

If we don't want too long turnsets, why don't we just play 5CC? I've played a 5CC game recently and i really like the variant, it removes all the annoying MM, but keeps all the fun in. Don't know how 5CC AW will play, since production will be limited and we'll have to use wider spacing then usual, also all or most of our cities will be exposed, but i guess we may try it on emperor or even lower.

I have played and won 5CC AWE. It can be a tough variant and is fairly interesting. I would be willing to play such a game

I will have to bow out of these for a while. In trying to foster and keep a good relationship with my wife, I actually have to spend time with her.

Spending my evenings on Civ is not so condusive to this, so I am trying to cut back significantly.

I highly doubt that I will be back in civ3 again, but I really enjoyed the game a ton.

Sorry to see you go, Romeo. I've enjoyed your posts and reports. :goodjob:

5CC AWE sounds interesting, though perhaps my vote doesn't count, since such a game might be over by the time I can play again (March 7). :lol:

You mean we'll win so fast? :mischief:

Good playing with you Romeo.

Since we don't have many ppl, I am thinking we should just wait until March anyway.

now 5CC sounds really interesting, we might want to start on emperor. I agree with waiting for NP and maybe by that time handy is also able to play.

Romeo, always fun to play with you, most memorable was the RaR Sid win with huge arguments going on :lol:
Maybe you will be back one day, even in a relationship, one needs to have some kind of hobby...

Maybe you will be back one day, even in a relationship, one needs to have some kind of hobby...

Er, especially in a relationship, but Romeo's a newlywed and we won't disillusion him just yet. :lol:

You mean we'll win so fast?

Sure, why not? ;) My basic assumption was that in limited-cities AW either the players get on top of the AI quickly or the situation becomes impossible quickly, but that's not based on experience.

Thanks for waiting for me, gentlemen, if it works out that way.

I have only played one 5CC AWE game and we won. However, we got an amazingly good start for 5 cities:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/BZ8-400AD.jpg

The shape of our land is close to perfect for 5CC. One reason I would like to try again is that I suspect the more general case is much much harder than this game was.

Its BZ8 if anyone is curious. Not sure if there are other 5CC AWE out there.