http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/LK113BC-2400.zip

I don't want to repeat a civ that has been played the LK series. So what do I roll? India, China, Spain, India, and I finally get something different with England.

I a fit of silliness I disbanded the initial settler one of those junk games, and the game kept going. :crazyeye:


4000 BC
I pop a hut and get $35. I move the settler one north to get sheep and cows within our borders.


3960 BC
London is moved. It seems weird to actually understand what the units are saying. The settler blurb is "lets get moving" if I heard it right. I start a warrior so that we can explore faster.
Hunting is pretty worthless, but it is the quickest path to animal husbandry.


3680 BC
(IT) We make contact with the Incan. I am starting to get tired of seeing his face in LK games.


3600 BC
(IT) Contact is made with France.


3520 BC
(IT) France beats us to a hut by 1 turn, and gets a free scout.


3360 BC
Once again I have the Mongols for neighbors.


3320 BC
(IT) Since we are playing always peace the next tech choice is Mysticism so that we can build Stonehenge. I am hoping for a lot of wonders in this game.


3280 BC
I pop a hut and get a lousy $29.
(IT) Add Egypt to our list of neighbors.


3240 BC
Add Germany to our list of neighbors.


3080 BC
(IT) We complete mysticism. I start the wheel heading toward pottery.

==========================

Summary:
Writing was just started for libraries and open borders. No beakers have been invested.

After Stonehenge we should slip a settler in. I expect us to be wonder hogs with always peace.


Signed up:
LKendter (skip Dec 23 to Dec 26)
Methos (currently playing)
Vol (on deck)
MeteorPunch
Tinkez


Remember 10 turns per round. STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to at complete.

Win target: Diplomatic or space with the game parameters.


For the first time ever I got hit with a CTD trying to exit back to the desktop.

Got it....

What about settler spamming? Even if it cuts our science for awhile, it will pay off later.

Stonehenge was a good idea.

Turn 40 (2400 BC)
Methos: Health-wise we're doing great (10/3). Happiness isn't so good (5/4). We can grow one more pop before growth needs to be stopped. We should probably build a warrior or two before switching to settler after Stonehenge.
Methos: Decide to stay with Writing. A library would work great with London and the river commerce.
Contact made: Roman Empire

Turn 41 (2360 BC)
Methos: Unsure where our warrior was heading, so I decide to turn him back towards London. Without some MP we can't grown beyond size 4 without angry citizens.
London grows: 4

Turn 42 (2320 BC)
Methos: I slow London's growth down to coincide with our Warrior arriving back. Hammers stays the same but our beakers increase by 2 (now at 14 bpt).

Turn 43 (2280 BC)
Methos: It appears the Egyptians have built a second city already. It's located near the gold to the east of their capitol.

Turn 44 (2240 BC)

Turn 45 (2200 BC)
Methos: Our warrior spots an archer/settler pair leaving Mongolian lands. A warrior just behind them.

Turn 46 (2160 BC)

Turn 47 (2120 BC)
London finishes: Stonehenge

Turn 48 (2080 BC)
London begins: Warrior
Tech learned: Writing
London's borders expand

Turn 49 (2040 BC)
Research begun: Bronze Working
London grows: 5
London finishes: Warrior

Turn 50 (2000 BC)
London begins: Settler
Methos: Once again London is maxed on happiness. With two MP size 5 is currently the most we can grow too. I suggest after the settler completes setting the city to no growth would be wise.

Here's the 2000 BC save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/LK113_BC-2000.Civ4SavedGame).

Well I am completely baffled at this point. I though the only point at which MP was available was if you took the hereditary rule civic. Could someone explain why we have an option for MP?

Signed up:
LKendter (skip Dec 23 to Dec 26)
Methos
Vol (currently playing)
MeteorPunch (on deck)
Tinkez

Remember 10 turns per round. STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to at complete.

Win target: Diplomatic or space with the game parameters.

Well I am completely baffled at this point. I though the only point at which MP was available was if you took the hereditary rule civic. Could someone explain why we have an option for MP?Nope, you get -2 (I think) unhappiness when the town hits a certain size and has no units inside (MP). "We fear for our safety. We demand military protection." something like that.

LK, in your save mouse-over the happiness indicator in the city screen. You'll notice one of the unhappiness points is from lack of protection. Once the warrior returned to London that unhappiness point went away.

From my understanding of Hereditary Rule you don't lose unhappiness from MP, you just gain +1 happy from each unit. I don't believe the two are the same at all.

Edit: Cross-posted with MeteorPunch.

LK, in your save mouse-over the happiness indicator in the city screen. You'll notice one of the unhappiness points is from lack of protection. Once the warrior returned to London that unhappiness point went away.
I guess I never noticed this since I never have a naked city in Civ4 except for maybe one or two turns at size one when the settler beat the military to the spot.
I guess the always peace option is a bit broken, as what do you need protection from?



From my understanding of Hereditary Rule you don't lose unhappiness from MP, you just gain +1 happy from each unit. I don't believe the two are the same at all.
With HR you can get larger cities before you go unhappy. While my syntax wasn't perfect, the net effect is MP = happier cities.

I guess the always peace option is a bit broken, as what do you need protection from?Yet the AI will still build military. This gives us a definite production advantage.

Just to make sure we're all on the same page, remember that 'Always Peace' is only for the human player. The computer AI's can still declare war.

Figure everyone knows this but said it anyway, just in case.

Got it for tonight.

Just to make sure we're all on the same page, remember that 'Always Peace' is only for the human player. The computer AI's can still declare war.

Figure everyone knows this but said it anyway, just in case.I didn't know that. Can they declare on us or just each other. I don't see how there can be wars if it's always peace? :confused:

I didn't know that. Can they declare on us or just each other. I don't see how there can be wars if it's always peace? :confused:

From my understanding any of the optional checked boxes at the start-up screen only apply to the human player. By stating always peace we will never have the option of declaring war, though we can have war declared on us. The AI is not at always peace.

I can't remember where I read this at, as it was around when the game came out or before. My apologies that I can't link it.

Checking in.

From my understanding any of the optional checked boxes at the start-up screen only apply to the human player. By stating always peace we will never have the option of declaring war, though we can have war declared on us. The AI is not at always peace.

I can't remember where I read this at, as it was around when the game came out or before. My apologies that I can't link it.

I was also under the impression that always peace would apply to all players, also AI. I didn't see a reference for the always peace option in the manual. The custom game section did not describe that. Guess someone will confirm that or we'll find it out eventually in the game :crazyeye:

:hmm: I can't find it either. Maybe I'm wrong, it's been known to happen before. ;)

Guess there's only one way to find out.

Well I am not sure how to answer the AP debate. I expected zero fighting anywhere, and was planning on almost zero military. I am really confused what to do now.

Can't say I've ever seen this: an SG start and go two turnsets without any screenshots, and nearly no discussion of strategy. :eek: :crazyeye: :confused:

Let's start producing some answers! :lol:

The tooltips for Always War, Always Peace, and One City Challenge:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/LK113_Always_Peace.jpg
As you can see, the language is deliberate and exact for all three. It leaves no doubt that in Always Peace it is impossible for any civilization to declare war. With no barbarians, this means no military is needed except for the single unit required to keep a city from incurring an undefended happiness penalty. Only one unit is required to mitigate this penalty (illogical as requiring any in an Always Peace/No Barbarian game is).

Confusion in the past over Always War has arose from this line in the manual (page 171 in the spiral bound version): For instance, if you choose to play a game with the "Always War" option, all civilizations will always be at war with one-another. This is incorrect, as proven in the Always War games Handy22, DI1 and LoTR20. The statement would be true if it were on the following page in the manual, covering multiplayer games, and all players were human. Errors of this kind are extremely common in manuals, and the guidance is always to trust the in-game material, as it is undoubtedly more recent.

Further, I have played solo Always Peace/No Barbarians games (most interestingly, on a Duel map with 17 other civs), and both of the above facts were true: you need on military unit per city to avoid a happiness penalty, and there are no wars between AIs (if anything would provoke a war, 17 civs on a Duel map would). I also learned another really interesting fact: it is possible to eliminate civilizations through the culture flip. A civilization's last city (yes, even its original capital), can culture flip and thus eliminate a civilization. Something to keep in our back pocket, but on Settler difficulty it is possible to win by Domination or Conquest with the right conditions in Always Peace.

Other thoughts on this variant:
- Diplomacy takes a slight twist, since your negative actions can never result in war.
- We have an inherent advantage in knowing we don't need to build a big military, this advantage is probably greater than the Prince bonuses to the AI, so this is a Noble-minus in the long term if everything goes normally

First things first, our start! :lol:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/LK113_2000BC_London.jpg
I really love food bonuses, so the Sheep and Cow are big plusses to me. Also, there's Stone! Tons of Wonders indeed, we need to get that hooked up and start building! :hammer:

Time for a dotmap (labelled for color-blind friendliness)
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/LK113_2000BC_Dotmap.jpg

There's no reason we can't get Red, Yellow, Blue and Purple. Green is likely a stretch with Germany that way. White is extremely unlikely with the Incan over there. I didn't bother with a dot planned in the oasis area due west of London, as the Inca will likely grab it, and it secures no resources.

Clearly the Red dot comes next, for the Stone. At least, that's clear to me. What do you all think?

Red and Blue both get the +1 hammer bonus from their city square by settling on a Plains Hill. :thumbsup:

Yellow is a classic fishing village. The rest of the locations don't seem particularly specialized. :hmm:

I thought Purple would be better off the river, as this makes it more of a powerful city with the Cow, and it lets us work the flood plain (very potent with a Town as a Financial civ). As an Expansive civ with lots of health bonuses, this seemed worthwhile. :mischief:

One of my favorite uses for an early dotmap is knowing what forests are safe to chop. We don't have a lot of hills for productivity, and lumbermills down the road might be critical. I'd prefer to keep many forests around. A 2 food, 3 hammer railroaded lumbermill is a very nice tile for the last half of the game. So I have put Red X's on definite safe chops. Chops of forested hills and forest on top of resources are also long-term no-brainers.

Don't know what to do with the Marble in the north (let yellow culture expand a few times?), or the Dyes in the south (I think the French will settle there and make that decision for us).

Of course, I'm an equal opportunity dotmapper :lol:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/LK113_2000BC_Dotmap2.jpg

Red grabs an Oasis.
Blue gets a River and moves south to get the Dyes. :goodjob:
Purple could run farms on all of those grasslands (with Civil Service), and come Biology, be a real Specialist machine. :D
Green is a toss-up: move west for the spices, east for the clams, south for the forest, north for fewer unused tiles, or all the way south and try for the gold. :crazyeye:
I even show Yellow pulled in a tile, which I think is less effective. :thumbdown:

Thanks for the infomative post, Vol. :thumbsup:

my only comment is that I'd move Red city 1W or 1SW.

Now, Buddhism and Hinduism are both founded, and we're in no place (tech-wise) to go for Judaism. I really think we'll want a religion founded, and the open borders and missionaries necessary get a ton of income (as was so extremely effective in LK110, if you do it for only 1 religion instead of 6).

We are going to have a tough decision to make with Calendar: research it early and get our Spices for much needed happiness, or research it later so the free Obelisks from Stonehedge don't obsolete? :hmm:

Building plenty of Cottages in smart places now and working them can really put us ahead of the power curve with our Financial trait. I am not a fan of Cottages on Plains, as these 1 food, 1 hammer tiles are not sustainable: you have to work a 3 food tile to maintain one of these. I'm much more a fan of sustainable 2 food, 1 hammer farmed Plains and Cottages on Grassland. :thumbsup:

Thoughts on civics:
- Government: We'll almost certainly want either Representation or Universal Suffrage.
- Legal: Bureaucracy, followed by Free Speech (for +2 gold on the Towns we'll already be getting our Financial +2 gold on)
- Labor: We could very well use all of these at some point, as they have specific uses. With high Health and low Happy, whipping might be key.
- Economy: Free Market will be potent if we have Open Borders with most everyone.
- Religion: Organized Religion is the civic for a builder's game, the +25% on buildings is huge. This means we need to get one religion in all of our cities.

So, time for my turns: Settler producing for 8 turns, Bronze Working researching for 8 turns. Not a lot to do! :lol:

I decide to change that to 9 turns on the Settler and 6 turns on Bronze Working by working a new Cottage. This will get us even more commerce soon (with Hamlet). There needs to be discussion before that Settler settles anyway, and also knowing where the Bronze is could change plans.

Sadly, we're not doing well technologically:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/LK113_1960BC_We::re_Stupid.jpg
:(

For the purposes of fostering good relations, I sign Open Borders agreements with everyone. :mischief:

We learn Bronze Working and start Agriculture in 4 so that we might build Farms.

Germany settles Hamburg on the (original) Green dot. :(

How convenient:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/LK113_1760BC_Copper.jpg
Yup, we have Copper. London is definitely going to be our best production city.

Judaism is founded in 1720 by Hatshepsut.

We build a Settler, and I start another one. Stunted growth has no effect as we have reached the happiness limit. Land grab is essential in Always Peace, even if it puts you in a bit of an early hole. Getting behind in tech isn't necessarily bad, as you can't be invaded by superior forces. Just as long as the recovery doesn't take too long. Being last in tech, one might consider a Library, however this would take 14 turns. Perhaps a chop would help one of the two builds along.

Get Agriculture and start Meditation in 5 (selected on last turn, can be changed without consequence). This is to put us on a path to perhaps someday found a religion (perhaps Code of Laws from our Stonehenge Great Prophet and Confucianism).

The Settler is left unmoved (given the decision at hand, I think this is the only time LK would allow such a thing), and our other Warrior is in the forest between the two possible Red city locations. Or perhaps turn the Settler around and head south! But I think getting Stone soon is very important.

Both of our Cottages are Hamlets, and thus we are first in GNP. Also, our Worker is building a mine in the Copper, which will be a potent (2 food, 3 hammer) tile for London.

We badly need religion, if only for happiness help. A Shrine and big-time income would help a good bit too.

--- The Save --- (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/LK113_BC-1600.Civ4SavedGame)

Roster:
LKendter (skip Dec 23 to Dec 26)
Methos
Vol - just played
MeteorPunch - UP!
Tinkez - on deck

Building plenty of Cottages in smart places now and working them can really put us ahead of the power curve with our Financial trait. I am not a fan of Cottages on Plains, as these 1 food, 1 hammer tiles are not sustainable: you have to work a 3 food tile to maintain one of these. I'm much more a fan of sustainable 2 food, 1 hammer farmed Plains and Cottages on Grassland. :thumbsup:

Fully agree - we need commerce from the cottages. We need to specialize our cities. More below.

The Settler is left unmoved (given the decision at hand, I think this is the only time LK would allow such a thing), and our other Warrior is in the forest between the two possible Red city locations. Or perhaps turn the Settler around and head south! But I think getting Stone soon is very important.

I think we should go for more aggressive settling and go towards other civs first and backfill afterwards. We need to grab more land a.s.a.p. Therefore I'd go for Vol's second dotmap green spot on the river to secure the horses and corn for the same city.

We have second settler coming in 8 turns and he should go get the stone instead of the first. The stone city should be on the river SW of the hill next to stone. Secondly the new city to south with first settler should be prepared to high growth to allow us get more settlers from there and our capitol could concentrate on science and wonders.

After that we need to see what spaces are open and go again for aggressive open spot and maybe go for great artist to get culture on threatened city further from capital.


Get Agriculture and start Meditation in 5 (selected on last turn, can be changed without consequence). This is to put us on a path to perhaps someday found a religion (perhaps Code of Laws from our Stonehenge Great Prophet and Confucianism).

- - clip clip - -

We badly need religion, if only for happiness help. A Shrine and big-time income would help a good bit too.

Tech-wise we have two choices IMO. We could head for Alphabet to get tech trading (19 turns) and try to get necessary techs to head for confucianism/later religion after that. Other direction would be to go through Meditation and Priesthood (total 10 turns now) and then go for Confucianism. If we take the latter route we could try to get the oracle, but I think we're too late for that at this point.

And we don't have Marble for the Oracle either. There is some Marble to the far icy northeast, but connecting it anytime soon would be folly.

Excellent thoughts, Tinkez. We need to take it to 'em, and then back it up with a bunch of culture.

For the purposes of fostering good relations, I sign Open Borders agreements with everyone. :mischief:

I believe this was done to soon. Even if we expand aggressively the AI can just march their settlers through our territory due to open borders. I suggest cancelling the open borders until all land has been taken.

I agree with expanding aggressively, especially since we can't take more land through military force.

If we see a Settler moving into our borders, we should cancel the Open Border agreement then. I see no benefit of cancelling them before this happens. In fact, one might be able to force the AI to waste turns by venturing a few tiles into your territory before being booted out.

Signed up:
LKendter (skip Dec 23 to Dec 26)
Methos
Vol
MeteorPunch (currently playing)
Tinkez (on deck)

Remember 10 turns per round. STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to at complete.

Win target: Diplomatic, cultural or space with the game parameters.

61 1600 send settler to "blue" on second dotmap. I went the Code of Laws route for research.
63 1520 York is founded.
66 1400 Inca ask to cancel deals with "vile egyptian." I say no, and get -1. meditation learned.
69 1280 France asks to cancel deals with Egypt. Say no again, and another -1. this is probably bad. Nottingham founded on "purple" on second dotmap at the cost of 3gpt. lower science to 90%.
70 1240 Priesthood discovered, starting Code of Laws.

- a settler is due in 4.
- I would keep land grabbing, even if it lowers our science to a rediculous low number percentage. Once our many cities have cottages+Financial trait, we'll be cashing in just fine.
- 2 new cities. York has border expansion in 1-2 turns. Again, getting Stonehenge was excellent. :goodjob:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/MP_LK113_01.JPG

I got it.

I don't have time to play tonight, so I'll take my turns tomorrow night, ETA 30hrs.

No comments to progress now as I'm still @ work.

Well I don't want to go pure settler. I really would like a few more wonders. If we totally kill science before important techs like code of laws and currency, we could dig a permanent hole.


Signed up:
LKendter (on deck) (skip Dec 23 to Dec 26)
Methos
Vol
MeteorPunch
Tinkez (currently playing)

Remember 10 turns per round. STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to at complete.

Win target: Diplomatic, cultural or space with the game parameters.

Ok, here is my turnset.

Pre-flight check:We went for Code of Laws and the target is to get confucianism as our religion. Let's hope we get it first - then we could spread it and get a great prophet and get some needed income from the shrine - ther prophet is 26turns ahead.

I change research to 100% and run -4gpt as at this point we don't need the money - we can't hurry production and can't even trade money until currency! We have 58gp in our coffers. Research drops from 19turns to 16.

I spend quite some time checking the terrain. Germany has marble connected to their capital - oracle is not worth a shot as I think they would most likely get it before us.

We desperately need workers to develop our cities. I order up a revolution to slavery as London is a "high-food" city with a cow and sheep and can withstand whipping. I take my chance to get one more worker before the fourth settler. I hope this doesn't cost us the stone city site to aztecs. The worker can chop a library to London.

Turn 1 - 1160BC: Anarchy is over, slavery adopted.

Turn 2 - 1120BC: I whip London for a worker to get us some improvements to London and other cities. This will hurt us a little now but I see the gains in long run larger. Next we will continue with settler which will gain 14 extra hammers from the whip.

Turn 3 - 1080BC: London finishes worker, settler due in 2.

Turn 4 - 1040BC: Our first worker went directly to improve the corn at York to encourage the city to grow faster, the new worker from London starts a chop at the incence tile to allow future plantation build to be done faster. Set York to emphasize food in order to work the corn tile and get 2 turns out of the worker build.

Turn 5 - 1000BC: London finishes settler, starts a Library. The chop will contribute to this.

Turn 6 - 975BC: Chop at London finishes, 30 hammers to library, it's now due in 6.

Turn 7 - 950BC: New city called Hastings is found at the red dot. City starts a library.

Turn 8 - 925BC: Worker at York finishes corn farming and we speed up the next worker to next turn.

IBT: Kublai khan wants us to cancel deals with egyptians. I decline - we still haven't explored egyptian territory.

Turn 9 - 900BC: Nada.

Turn 10 - 875BC: Second chop near London finishes and our libary has overflow of 19 hammers. Lee - please use them to Granary to ensure faster growth for London and possibility for whips in future.

I tried to get our worker force into better shape and started to pump our science by the library at London. We need growth provided by the workers to keep up growth. I'd build a granary at London next and then whip a settler to ensure growth.

My biggest fear here is that we lose confucianism as my actions caused delay to our research but should improve our future. We get a prophet in 17turns - if we miss a religion now, we should use him to research a tech to get a religion.

I run all the time decifit, so soon we need to go back to 90% at research.

Here are our lands:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/England_875BC.jpg

And finally the save: the save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/LK113_BC-0875.Civ4SavedGame)

I'll be out during the Christmas until 28th. Please skip me if the turns go a round during this time.

Signed up:
LKendter (currently playing) (skip Dec 23 to Dec 26)
Methos (on deck)
Vol
MeteorPunch
Tinkez (skip until Dec 28)

Remember 10 turns per round. STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to at complete.

Win target: Diplomatic, cultural or space with the game parameters.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/LK113BC-0625.zip

875 BC
I don't understand the whip in London. The city can make 9 shields at size 3 using food positive tiles. This city shouldn't be whipped IMHO.


800 BC
(IT) Nottingham completes a worker and starts another. We have to many good tiles not developed. Nottingham alone needs work for cows and corn. There is fur to connect thanks to London's border expansion.


675 BC
(IT) Bismarck completes the Pyramids before we have even researched the tech for them. :(


==========================

Summary:
Code of Laws and the Oracle both complete in 1 turn. I would like the most expensive tech we can get. If we can grab Philosophy for a double religion hit I would be very happy. After the Oracle we should spam more settlers for any marginal spots we can claim.

I would really like a coastal city at some point.
I feel the nature of always peace should include very heavy wonder building.


Signed up:
LKendter (skip Dec 23 to Dec 26)
Methos (currently playing)
Vol (on deck)
MeteorPunch
Tinkez (skip until Dec 28)

Remember 10 turns per round. STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to at complete.

Win target: Diplomatic, cultural or space with the game parameters.

Got it, and will play tonight.

Turn 90 (625 BC)
Methos: Until York finishes the spear it is at max happiness. I slow growth down in order to time with the spearmen and instead increase commerce. This grants us 2 bpt and 1 gpt.
Methos: I MM Hastings to go from growth in three turns to two turns. This also increases us by another 1 gpt. Negative wise it shunts production by two hammers (1 hpt for two turns).
Confucianism founded in York
Confucianism has spread: York
Tech learned: Code of Laws
London finishes: The Oracle

Turn 91 (600 BC)
Taoism founded in Nottingham
Taoism has spread: Nottingham
Tech learned: Philosophy
London begins: Granary
Research begun: Alphabet
Methos: Never seen that happen before. In the same turn we entered both the Classical period and the Medieval period!
Methos: Decide to send the Confucian missionary to London and the Taoist missionary to Hastings. This will get all four cities to have one of our religions. We need the religious influence so we can build temples (increases happiness).
Research begun: Masonry
Methos: I switch research to Masonry so we can connect the Stone. LK mentioned he wishes to build lots of wonders and stone will increase the speed of some of them.
London begins: Settler
Hastings grows: 3

Turn 92 (575 BC)
Confucianism has spread: London

Turn 93 (550 BC)
Tech learned: Masonry
Moses (Great Prophet) born in London

Turn 94 (525 BC)
Research begun: Alphabet
Taoism has spread: Hastings

Turn 95 (500 BC)
York finishes: The Kong Miao
Methos: With the increase gpt from the shrine we can up science to 90% and still earn +1 gpt.
Nottingham finishes: Worker

Turn 96 (475 BC)
Nottingham begins: Granary
London finishes: Settler

Turn 97 (450 BC)
London begins: Confucian Temple
Methos: I have assigned a scientist to London in order to keep it from growing. I also switched a citizen off the town and onto the wine to stagnate growth entirely. I don't want to click 'Avoid Growth' as I've found I tend to forget I did it.
York grows: 4

Turn 98 (425 BC)
Methos: Argh!! Apparently I mis-clicked on the Stone and built a cottage accidently.
London begins: Settler
Methos: Forgot we wanted to spam settler so switch London.
York finishes: Spearman
Hastings grows: 4

Turn 99 (400 BC)
York begins: Confucian Monastery
York's borders expand

Turn 100 (375 BC)
Methos: Hatshepsut wants to trade her wine for our corn. Since the wine grants +1 happy I agree.


Other than Hastings all cities can now grow one more pop due to our deal with the Egyptians.

I believe we should probably declare a religion, as we need the happiness. I was thinking of Taoist as it is in London.

I was also thinking we should change our civics. Pacifism would work great in this game since we will have a very minor army. Plus it grants +100% gpp which will help since we’ll be building a lot of wonders. I was also thinking of caste system.

We do need a few more military units. Our cities without military are suffering a +1 unhappiness due to it.

Our settler is heading to the deep south of our continent. I realize this is a ways from our boundaries but with ‘always peace’ I don’t see it as being much of a problem. To help with our trade network we should learn Sailing. The city site as shown in the image below is almost directly south of York.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/LK113_Coastal_city_site.JPG

Here’s the 375 BC save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/LK113_BC-0375.Civ4SavedGame).

Signed up:
LKendter (skip Dec 23 to Dec 26)
Methos
Vol (currently playing)
MeteorPunch (on deck)
Tinkez (skip until Dec 28)

Remember 10 turns per round. STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to at complete.

Normally I don't bother posting from the auto-log, but this one is neat and Methos didn't report it in the summary.
Is this an SG first of entering 2 eras at the same time?
How about getting a double religion like below?


Turn 90 (625 BC)
Confucianism founded in York
Tech learned: Code of Laws
London finishes: The Oracle

Turn 91 (600 BC)
Taoism founded in Nottingham
Tech learned: Philosophy
Methos: Never seen that happen before. In the same turn we entered both the Classical period and the medieval period!

Normally I don't bother posting from the auto-log, but this one is neat and Methos didn't report it in the summary.

Sorry, I use the user comments a lot more now with the autolog and don't always enter them in the summary. I hope most players will glance at my turn log as I do at everyone else's. As you [LK] stated elsewhere the autolog isn't worth it unless it has comments on why it was done.

It's also interesting to note that even though Code of Laws and the Oracle finished on the same turn Philosophy wasn't actually learned until the following turn.

It's also interesting to note that even though Code of Laws and the Oracle finished on the same turn Philosophy wasn't actually learned until the following turn.

This is an turn order thing. You learn your tech, then you complete buildings. Since the Oracle gives a free tech, it doesn't become official until the next tech learned phase.

(0) 375 BC
Well, once again my two predecessors have not posted any screenshots of our empire (and in fact, the series host has yet to post a screenshot, how bizarre). Who says an Always Peace SG has to be a boring read? :lol: Hopefully this turnset will wake up those holiday lurkers and let them know about our grand experiment! :cool:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/LK113_375BC_Empire.jpg
So we're not doing too great, as we haven't gotten all of the city spots we wanted.

Hastings is in stagnant growth for want of a single unit of MP. :rolleyes: Its Library goes on hold for the cheapest unit we can build, a Chariot for 25 hammers in 4 turns.

Since we have the Confucianism Shrine built in a decent city, we should seek to spread Confucianism everywhere, and it is likely our best State Religion choice for the near term. Wisely, York is building a Monastery so we can pump out Missionaries to all of our Open Borders rivals. :D

However, I do not see value in any revolt now. Pacifism would indeed by useful if we had a State Religion or more Wonders. While it would be nice to get our second Great Prophet twice as quickly, two turns of Anarchy (one for Pacifism, another for State Religion), doesn't seem worthwhile. Besides, is there any variant more of a Builder's Game than Always Peace? Organized Religion will be essential to maximize our building and Wonder production. Then, after we have sufficient infrastructure in our limited cities, and many Wonders generating GPPs, we should be in Pacifism. Finally, if we could revolt more than one civic right now, that might change things, but Pacifism would be the only change available.

(1) 350 BC
We have catching up to do:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/LK113_350BC_Tech_Race.jpg
:eek:

I abort the Settler's run to the south, as it is based on out-of-date information. :nono: Unlike in Civ3, a city can be founded by another civ in a location you have previously scouted without seeing any borders. The southern spot is a "first ring" spot for the French, and is extremely lucrative. It is impossible that it was not filled long ago.[Message from 8 turns in the future: it is later discovered that Lyons, a size 7 (!) city is the "open space" Methos posted a screenshot of]

However, there is a spot open to our southeast that claims some more Copper (and perhaps Gold), and seperates the French city of Rheims, allowing for easier culture flipping. :goodjob:

(2) 325 BC
Nothing. OK, maybe a few turns here and there are boring! :lol:

(3) 300 BC
We learn Alphabet. We can now fully understand the technology situation. :mischief:

Julius Caesar: Up Code of Laws, Philosophy, Alphabet, Down Sailing, Archery, Iron Working, Mathematics
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/LK113_300BC_Caesar.jpg

Hatshepsut: Up Code of Laws, Philosophy, Alphabet, Down Archery, Iron Working, Polytheism, Monarchy
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/LK113_300BC_Hatshepsut.jpg

Napolean: Up Priesthood, Code of Laws, Philosophy, Alphabet, Down Sailing, Archery, Iron Working, Polytheism
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/LK113_300BC_Napolean.jpg

Huanya Capac: Up Priesthood, Code of Laws, Philosophy, Pottery, Alphabet, Down Sailing, Archery, Mathematics
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/LK113_300BC_Capac.jpg

Bismark: Up Meditation, Priesthood, Code of Laws, Philosophy, Alphabet, Down Sailing, Archery, Iron Working, Horseback Riding
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/LK113_300BC_Bismarck.jpg

Kublai Khan: Up Code of Laws, Philosophy, Alphabet, Down Sailing, Archery, Iron Working
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/LK113_300BC_Khan.jpg

So, we have a monopoly on Alphabet, Code of Laws and Philosophy, but we lack many other techs.

Bismark being down Meditation is a promising place to start trading.
Trade Meditation (123 beakers) to Bismarck for Archery (92 beakers).

Priesthood, by itself, cannot get us Sailing. Huanya Capac however, is lacking Pottery, an oddity.
Trade Pottery (123 beakers) and Priesthood (92 beakers) to Huanya Capac for Sailing (154 beakers).

So now everyone is up Iron Working, and everyone is down Code of Laws, Philosophy, and Alphabet. :thumbsup:
- Iron Working (at 308 beakers), would require Alphabet (462 beakers) to trade. The monopoly on Alphabet is worth more than that.
- Mathematics (385) and Polytheism (154) are both known by two civs, but not available to trade due to having Wonders associated with them (Hanging Gardens and Parthenon).
- Monarchy and Horseback Riding are known by one civ each, also not available for trade.

What do we research next, then? Let's consider the Wonders available in the near future, as this seems to be a desire of our host. We have Stone and Copper available as production boosts.
- Parthenon (Polytheism in 3, 400 hammers, Marble): +50% GPP until Chemistry, likely already under construction
- Colossus (Metal Casting in 13, 250 hammers, Copper): +1 commerce for water tiles until Astronomy. Could probably get this, if we had a coastal city and tiles worth boosting.
- Hanging Gardens (Mathematics in 7, 300 hammers, Stone): +1 health, +1 population, not obsoleted, requires Aqueduct. In my experience, since this requires an aqueduct, the other civs don't get around to building this quickly (much like prereq wonders in RaR). We should definitely get this, but there is no rush.
- Chichen Itza (Code of Laws, 500 hammers, Stone): +25% city defense until Rifling. Worthless with this variant except for the +2 Great Prophet points and +6 culture. We should consider it for those reasons down the road.
- Angkor Wat (Philosophy, 500 hammers, Stone): +1 hammer from Priest specialists until Computers. Also produces +2 Great Prophet points. Don't need to consider starting this one for a while, since no one else even has a prereq for this tech yet.
- Sistene Chapel (Theology in 17, 600 hammers, Marble): +2 culture per specialist, not obsoleted. Culture is huge in this variant. If we can get our Marble hooked up in the near future, this might be a smart one.
- Great Library (Literature in 8 (2 for Polytheism), 350 hammers, Marble): +2 free Scientist specialists in the city until Scientific Method. Another reason to get that Marble hooked up. Since no one has the prereq (Alphabet) yet, this one is still quite safe. A slingshot to Music and the free Great Artist might be wise for much needed culture bombing.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/LK113_300BC_Research.jpg
I select Iron Working, as I don't want to have to trade for it since it is now as cheap to research as it can get with everyone knowing it. Would be nice to know where Iron is and get it mined and producing hammers. No rush to get Monarchy, since Hatshepsut is more than happy to use her monopoly on that tech to supply us with Wine in exchange for Corn.

Found the city of Cantebury to the southeast.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/LK113_300BC_Canterbury.jpg
It needs culture badly, and starts on a Library.

(4) 275 BC
Hatshepsut and Kublai Khan both try and trade their Iron Working for our Alphabet. :nono:

Hastings gets its Chariot MP, and is set back on growth.

Both Huanya Capac and Julius Caesar will trade us Mathematics (385 beakers) for Code of Laws (539 beakers). We are #1 in GNP (170% of the average) and at a sustainable 90% research rate we are surely the fastest researching civilization. I would rather research ourselves techs that everyone else has then trade at 50% beaker penalty and give up monopolies.

(5) 250 BC
Napolean offers the Iron Working for Alphabet trick himself. Nope!

Huanya Capac demands we stop trading (Open Borders) with Hatshepsut. Of course, the Open Borders is giving us +2 relations now, and refuse to stop trading and trading with worst enemy amount to -1 relations each, so it's all even, except we will be able to send our missionaries into all their cities and bring in huge income! :worship:

Nottingham's previous border expansions give us access to new forests outside our workable tiles to chop.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/LK113_250BC_Forests.jpg
:hammer:

(6) 225 BC
Huanya Capac offers the Mathematics for Code of Laws trade. No way!

Stone is finally hooked up.

Nottingham builds a Granary. As a border city, it could use some more culture, and I can't turn down the research boost and possibility of Taoist Missionaries provided by a Taoist Monastery in 12 (will be chop-helped).

London trains a Settler. This one heads north to our fishing village area, to claim a coastal site, and with enough culture, Marble! London starts on a Confucian Monastery in 6, as York lacks the hammers to produce enough missionaries. We could start on either Chichen Itza or Angkor Wat, both Stone Wonders, but it seems premature. Note: London has a Temple in the queue from a previous player with 17 hammers on it.

(7) 200 BC
Khan joins our future religion.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/LK113_200BC_Confucianism.jpg
More coins for us! :woohoo:

(8) 175 BC
We learn Iron Working. :ninja:
Here's the big plan for Wonders:
- Phase 1: Increase our production capability, this means Organized Religion and Forges (Polytheism, Monotheism, Metal Casting)
- Phase 2: Research enabling techs: Mathematics for access to Literature, Music and Currency (and Calendar for Spices and Dyes)
- Phase 3: Build 'em!
I re-arrange it slightly: Mathematics in 5 first, so we can start on the Hanging Gardens while we do the rest of the plan, since it is the only contested Wonder (besides Parthenon).

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/LK113_175BC_Iron.jpg
This is our only Iron.

Another Iron nearby makes me wonder about squeezing in another city:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/LK113_175BC_New_City.jpg
The red question mark would be an interesting gambit. Would be a great use for a culture bomb from the Great Artist from being first to Music.

So now I face an interesting decision: I have the Settler in place to build our fishing village in the northeast. This is uncontested land, however it is near the Marble (but it will require 1000 culture to cover the Marble). Alternatively, I could send him trekking for 5 turns to the red question mark spot. I decide on the latter due to the nature of this variant and the fact that 1000 culture in a fishing village was quite a bit to hope for anyway.

(9) 150 BC
Julius Caesar thinks he's all original and offers us the Mathematics for Alphabet trade. Get outta town!

I start Camping another Fur so that we can trade it.

(10) 125 BC
Hastings builds a Library. We're at +2 gold/turn at 90% research, more towns could be supported, so I order up a Settler in 9, as Hastings just grew to size 5 this turn.

Begin another chop west of Nottingham. The chop will finish in 3, and Nottingham's Monastery will finish in 2. The next build will get the chop. Note that Nottingham needs an MP unit. There are two more forests south of Nottingham that are outside of its workable tiles but within the culture borders.

Our question-mark-bound Settler is on the grassland hills south of Hastings, not on automove.

Our good worker discipline needs to continue to support the tile improvements we need for this variant:
- Farms on Plains
- Cottages on Grassland
- Save Forests for Lumbermills
Since we can't build Lumbermills now, focus on getting Farms and Cottages built. :hammer:

Suggested city specializations:

London: Production
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/LK113_125BC_London.jpg
All of those forest tiles with Lumbermills and Railroads will be great. Focusing on Production is critical here if we want lots of Wonders, and no other city is very good for production. The forests will also offset the health negatives of the Iron Works (which we should build here, perhaps with the National Epic as the second).

York: Commerce and Coin
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/LK113_125BC_York.jpg
Has the potential to produce an incredible amount of commerce. With the Confucianism Shrine here, emphasis on Markets, Grocers, Banks and Wall Street (and probably Oxford as well) is important as we start sending missionaries to every city on the map. It is currently not working the Corn tile since it has reached its happiness limit. The hill is currently having a mine built on it.

Nottingham: Food (Specialists) and Production
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/LK113_125BC_Nottingham.jpg
Clearly a city that will produce almost no commerce. We should avoid Libraries, Universities, Observatories, Markets, Grocers, and Banks here, as they will have little effect (except perhaps their Culture). While not as strong as London at production, this will be an important hammer site. Less-critical Wonders and both kinds of Missionaries are probably the best builds here. If we farm the grassland as well (especially after Biology), we could run many Artist specialists and produce a steady stream of Great Artists. We might want the Globe Theatre here to support many specialists.

Hastings: Commerce and Production
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/LK113_125BC_Hastings.jpg
Hastings lacks an abundance of food. But it definitely has decent commerce and production. It could focus on sending settlers into our artic north.

Canterbury: Culture :eek:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/LK113_125BC_Canterbury.jpg
Our most daring land grab at the moment. Will be a slow grower and producer, with almost no commerce, so it should focus on culture builds. Lacks a religion, that would help the culture. Might want to get a worker out here and chop those forests and use the resulting buildings to steal the Gold to the north.

And here's some demographics:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/LK113_125BC_Demographics.jpg
We're right where you want to be for this variant: #1 in land area, #1 in GNP and last in Soldiers. :king: :goodjob:

If you're on dial-up for the holidays, it sucks to be you. This image is 1400 x 1250 pixels, so scroll around.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/LK113_125BC_Big_Map.jpg

While we're already #1 in land area, I've proposed some new fishing villages (although they don't get very many water tiles...) in addition to our prior Yellow city location and the new Red option.

I have also marked "safe" forests with red X's. I assume Rheims will flip to us one day, I request that forest east of York remains pristine. :)

There are one-tile tiny islands off the coast of this pangaea (looks like a Natural coastline instead of a Pressed or Solid), that we could also consider. All those fishing villages would hopefully help the research rate as we push to space or diplomacy.

--- The Save --- (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/LK113_BC-0125.Civ4SavedGame) (Yes, despite the odd year, in 125 BC there are 330 turns remaining) :crazyeye:

Roster:
LKendter (skip Dec 23 to Dec 26)
Methos - on deck, or hold until LK returns? :confused:
Vol - just played
MeteorPunch - UP!
Tinkez - Skip until Dec 28

Are we upgrading to the patch? I assume yes? got it...:D

I think some dotmaps should be moved slightly:
Blue 1S, Purple 1S, Yellow 1W.

For the wonders mentioned by Vol, I think Hanging Gardens, The Great Library, and Sistine Chapel are worth going for. I started London on an Aquaduct and put the Hanging Gardens in the queue so we can go for that first. The GL and Sistines both get double production with Marble, so it is worthwhile to settle up northeast on the Green dot to claim the Marble, then start on these wonders.

We have a settler ready to go for the next player which was built on my last turn. I think he should go to the Green dot for the Marble wonders or the Purple dot (moved 1S, imo) so we can have a coastal city to search for land and possibly claim an island somewhere. Either way another settler should be built soon so we can have both. :D Our science is at 70% which is fantastic. I wouldn't mind settling every available space ASAP to grab all the land available even if we go down to a 50% or so rate.

Calendar is available for trade which will give us 2 additional luxuries. Maybe this is worth it - I dunno - because the free culture for our border cities is nice. I guess I would get it, but it would suck if Coventry flipped.

We have no state religion. Our towns are divided between 2 religions, so we need to pick one, start sending missionaries and convert to Organized Religion.

113 75BC Mathematics discovered, start on Polytheism->Monotheism for Organized Religion. Coventry founded on Red dot.
118 50AD Start on Currency.
120 100AD Bismarck completes the Parthenon.

new town, Coventry:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/MP_LK113_02.JPG

I played with 1.52.

(and in fact, the series host has yet to post a screenshot, how bizarre).
Well so far this game has been pretty dull during my turns. After a while I think posting yet another screen shot of Oracle is tiresome.

Well this game definitely proves the value of being first to alphabet. ;)

On comment on the cities with little commerce: If we have enough of the resources that get extra bonus from markets, grocers, etc, then we do want them. Not so much for the commerce boast, but the other help.

I agree that Canterbury should get #1 priority for missionaries to get those cheap temples. If we don't lose the city, it should get our first great artist. I agree at least one worker should go their ASAP to chop forests after mining the copper (not mentioned by Vol).


:eek: Off line less then a day, and two turns played! My comment on mining that copper may is seen to late. :(

Signed up:
LKendter (skip Dec 23 to Dec 26)
Methos (currently playing) If available, else the game is stuck until late Dec 26 when I have access to my PC that can play civ.
Vol (on deck)
MeteorPunch
Tinkez (skip until Dec 28)

Remember 10 turns per round. STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to at complete.

Win target: Diplomatic, cultural or space with the game parameters.

Good stuff on starting the Aqueduct and Hanging Gardens. I'm glad we got the Red Dot and going for the Green Dot and Marble is wise. Dropping to 70% research is a bit sad though. We need Courthouses and more Confucian cities to fix that.

We should push to Literature and Music for the free Great Artist as our next research, then come back for Metal Casting and forges.

I would hold off on a state religion for a few reasons:
- Requires a turn of anarchy when land is still to be grabbed and Wonders are contested
- Reduces our immediate culture output from having two holy cities
- Will incur diplomatic penalty and we'll likely lose some Open Borders (and the ability to send in missionaries and have better trade routes)

I'd rather get some missionaries out to the other civs and our own cities for Confucianism first before going to a state religion. Right now, if we were to do so, we'd be an enemy to many civs.

Previous post cross-posted with LK.

We have Copper at London already mined, so mining the Copper at Canterbury has the benefit of increasing the hammers there and being available for trade. Didn't seem worth extra emphasis.

I've got it, but won't be able to play until some time tomorrow.

Methos:I played with 1.52.

Just in case you missed. Can you still go tomorrow?

Methos:

Just in case you missed. Can you still go tomorrow?

:hmm: I'm not for sure, though I'm guessing probably not. With any luck I can finish GOTM 1 tomorrow, but don't know.

LK has asked for a skip until the 26th. Tinkez has asked for a skip until the 28th. I can't patch until I finish GOTM, so that leaves Vol to play again after he just played 10 tens ago.

So we either have Vol play again, wait for LK to get back, or pray I can finish GOTM 1 tomorrow. :D

Well, it took all day but I've finally finished and submitted GOTM 1! :woohoo:

I can now again state I've 'Got it', but won't play until tomorrow morning. After playing GOTM 1 all day I need a break.

I can now again state I've 'Got it', but won't play until tomorrow morning. After playing GOTM 1 all day I need a break.

At this point I will consider this a swap. I will have access back later today to Civ4.

At this point I will consider this a swap. I will have access back later today to Civ4.

I hope you haven't started...

Turn 120 (125 AD)
Methos: Decide to do a little revolting. Start off by declaring Confucianism as our state religion.
Methos: I did this as Confucianism is in both London and York, our best cities. Plus we already have the Confucianism shrine.

Turn 121 (150 AD)
Methos: Huayna Capac apparently didn't like the religion switch. He's canceled our Open Border agreement.
Methos: Since we declared a state religion I figure might as well switch to Organized Religion too. Once again, we enter anarchy.

Turn 122 (175 AD)
Methos: Hatshepsut comes calling, wants to trade her fish for our fur. I agree.
York begins: Confucian Missionary
Hastings begins: Chariot
Methos: I switch York to build a missionary first, before the temple, to help spread our religion. By declaring a state religion we gained +1 happy which removed the angry citizen.
Methos: Hastings was building a Taoist temple. I nixed that and set it to build a chariot. The one that was here left with the settler.
Methos: Had to drop the slider to 60% as the higher cost of Organized Religion was causing us to lose 2 gpt. We only had 9 gold in the bank.
London finishes: Aqueduct

Turn 123 (200 AD)
Tech learned: Calendar
Methos: I decide to trade CoL to JC to get Calendar. We need the happiness benefits for our cities more than the +1 cpt from obelisks IMO.
Hastings finishes: Chariot

Turn 124 (225 AD)
Hastings begins: Granary
Nottingham grows: 7

Turn 125 (250 AD)
York finishes: Confucian Missionary
Nottingham finishes: Taoist Missionary

Turn 126 (275 AD)
Nottingham begins: Courthouse
Methos: Set slider back at 70% with only -1 gpt.
London grows: 8
Hastings's borders expand

Turn 127 (300 AD)
Warwick founded
Warwick begins: Lighthouse
Taoism has spread: York
Confucianism has spread: Nottingham
Tech learned: Currency
Hastings finishes: Granary
Canterbury grows: 3
Coventry grows: 3

Turn 128 (325 AD)
Research begun: Literature
Hastings begins: Courthouse
Methos: Now that the spices are connected and improved, I send one of the workers towards the marble to get it set up.
Canterbury finishes: Library
Christianity founded in a distant land

Turn 129 (350 AD)
Canterbury begins: Confucian Missionary
Nottingham grows: 8

Turn 130 (375 AD)

This turn York will finish the Confucius temple. I suggest building several missionaries after that. We need to get all of our cities as Confucius to benefit from Organized Religion.

There are a couple workers working at getting the Dye connected. This will gain us another +1 happy.

There is also a worker on ‘Go-to’ to the Marble in the ice. He should get there in a couple turns.

Literature will be done in 1 turn. I’m tempted to go with Monarchy next so we can build wineries. We have several of them in our territory, might as well use them.

For the past several turns we’ve had several of the AI’s come calling wanting us to cancel our deals with different AI’s. I ignored them.

Here’s the 375 AD save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/LK113_AD-0375.Civ4SavedGame).

Signed up:
LKendter (currently playing)
Methos (swapped)
Vol (on deck)
MeteorPunch
Tinkez (skip until Dec 28)

Remember 10 turns per round. STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to at complete.

Win target: Diplomatic, cultural or space with the game parameters.

LKendter (currently playing)
Methos (swapped)


Notice the post above you? I already played, so its kind of late for a swap.

Notice the post above you? I already played, so its kind of late for a swap.

I am confused by this comment. My post was to note that you swapped ahead of me. Vol will play after me.

I am confused by this comment. My post was to note that you swapped ahead of me. Vol will play after me.

:lol: My mistake. I was thinking you swapped me to play after you. I forgot I originally swapped with you due to you being away. My apologies. :blush:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/LK113AD-0600.zip

I hate the fact that patch reset your options.

375 AD
We have lost our focus at Canterbury. This city can squeeze and flip it neighbors, or it and be squeeze. A missionary is useless to gaining culture. I swap to a monastery as that offers more culture then a temple in fewer turns.
(IT) I decide to gamble on music next, as a great artist would be wonderful at Canterbury.


425 AD
(IT) We complete the Hanging Gardens.


450 AD
I think Khan doesn't understand this world is peaceful. I have no interesting in a military tech such as horseback riding.


520 AD
Hastings is so confused that it rejects Confucianism.


540 AD
Canterbury accepts Taoism, and we add to the potential culture builds.


560 AD
Coventry now practices Confucianism.


580 AD
(IT) Music completes and we get a great artist.

==========================

Summary:
There are 2 more settlers on the way. Our economy can support more, so we should get some more fishing villages on-line.

Well here is a little present for Canterbury - DOH!

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/LAK-1076.jpg



Signed up:
LKendter
Methos
Vol (currently playing)
MeteorPunch (on deck)
Tinkez (skip until Dec 28)

Remember 10 turns per round. STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to at complete.

Win target: Diplomatic, cultural or space with the game parameters.

I've got it.

I'm back and ready to play.

Lot's of progress during Christmas - seems that you guys have been playing during the vacation period!

Signed up:
LKendter
Methos
Vol (currently playing)
MeteorPunch (on deck)
Tinkez

Remember 10 turns per round. STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to at complete.

Win target: Diplomatic, cultural or space with the game parameters.

(0) 600 AD
Demographics are good, #1 or #2 in everything. Hatshepsut is outpacing us in food production, but we dominate most everything else.

I'm sad that we haven't used our Open Borders to spread Confucianism to the cities of the world. More focus on missionaries is essential so that we can run at 100% science.

We can't get a good deal on Monarchy. But we're strong enough research-wise, I think self-research is the way to go.

Still need plenty of Worker actions on many tiles. Hastings needs Confucianism badly so it can get the Organized Religion bonus and perhaps work on secondary Wonders.

(1) 620 AD
Nothing.

(2) 640 AD
York builds a Taoism Temple. This helps with its unhappiness, but this city is really meant to be a coin and commerce powerhouse. It will get a Library, but I squeeze in a Confucian Missionary in 4 first.

Coventry builds a Library for the culture. A Confucian Monastery is ordered for that reason as well.

Hatshepsut builds the Hindu Shrine.

We launch an attack on the French (the only way one can in Always Peace):
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/LK113_640AD_Great_Artist.jpg
Looks like we're getting Gems, and Orleans (now 2% French). Rheims is 80% French, still.

(3) 660 AD
Napolean has had enough Open Borders after our little attack last turn. (-3 close borders penalty)

We learn Drama, I would assume for the high-culture Theatres. We really need more production, I select Metal Casting in 6 for Forges.

Nottingham completes Settler. For icy north, I presume. Starts on a Confucian Monastery in 3 (need more Confucian cities!)

Running out of places to explore, I command one of our Warriors back to Coventry for MP. It is on automove and will arrive in 12 turns.

Marble is connected, and is somehow reaching our Capital (through other civ's harbor cities that are connected to us by road, I assume). This helps speed up the last few turns on the Great Library. We now have all of the Wonder-boosting materials (Stone, Marble, Copper, Iron).

Orleans goes up to 6% French (was 2% last turn).

(4) 680 AD
An English (that's us!) revolt starts in Orleans, and will last 4 turns. :mischief:

(5) 700 AD
Hastings builds a Worker. I would like to start Angkor Wat or another less important Wonder here, but it still lacks Confucianism (for Organized Religion) and improved hammer tiles. I start a Theatre in 4, and with Metal Casting in 4, we'll do a Forge after that. By then, we'll have Confucianism as well (assuming another missionary doesn't fail), and be ready to go on less critical Wonders).

Canterbury builds a Confucian Monastery. Starts a Theatre in 4 for that 3 culture/turn.

A Hindu Missionary from Hatshepsut breaches our borders near York. I could cancel Open Borders to prevent this. However, more religion isn't really a bad thing, and the espionage effect is less useful when no military action is possible. It means more possible happiness for us, at the expense of an extra gold/turn to Hatshepsut. Finally, we humans are far better at spreading religion than the AI could, so our reciprocity for this action will greatly outweigh any short term benefit Hatshepsut gains.

(6) 720 AD
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/LK113_720AD_Great_Library.jpg
London builds the Great Library. Major boost to Great People Points with those two Specialists and the Wonder. The capital is fine on Happiness (10/13) and Health (10/15). I decide on the National Epic to really get our Great People coming quickly (as everyone knows, the earlier you get them the more impact they have!). It will finish in 7 turns (is double-speed with Stone).

York finishes that Confucian Missionary. It begins a Library in 8, but I think every-other build in most cities should be a Missionary to spread to the nations of the world.

Nottingham finishes a Confucian Monastery. This will help with its border wars a bit. Confucian Missionary in 2.

Found Newcastle.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/LK113_720AD_Newcastle.jpg
This location can actually be productive (unlike the solid ice to the north), and won't have a major maintenance penalty since it is adjacent to our capital.

(7) 740 AD
Coventry finishes Confucian Monastery. Again, major culture war here, so a Theatre in 5 is ordered.

Zoroaster (Great Prophet) born in London. He heads to Nottingham for the Taoist Shrine. :woohoo:

That threatening Hindu Missionary might just be passing through on the way to the far Northeast.

(8) 760 AD
We learn Metal Casting. We do not lack for Wines despite not having Monarchy (thanks Egypt). Sistene Chapel doesn't seem in risk enough to rush on Theology. But Civil Service (in 9), with irrigation chaining (needed at Canterbury, Nottingham and Coventry), and Bureaucracy, sounds like exactly what we need. Bureaucracy will really speed up our Wonder builds.

Nottingham builds Confucian Missionary. Starts a Forge in 6, but it should build another Missionary after that!

Great Prophet builds Dai Maio in Nottingham. We gain +6 gold/turn.

Unbelievably, a second missionary fails to spread Confucianism in Hastings. All it has is Taoism. :wallbang:

Orleans comes out of riot and is is 11% French.

I think its time to trade Drama and Music around. We have a monopoly on Drama, but it is not really something worth keeping a monopoly on.
- Drama allows Theatres, so we don't want to give this to civs we share borders with (France, Inca, Egypt)
- Music allows Notre Dame, so we don't want to give this to civs that are proficient at building wonders (Germany, Egypt, France)

Only Egypt and Rome are willing to trade Construction, but we've already decided trading with Egypt is too big of risk.

So here are the trades I do:
- Construction and 200 gold from Julius Caesar for Music.
- Monarchy, Horseback Riding (finally get that out of the way) and 190 gold from Bismarck for Music.
- 130 gold from Huanya Capac for Literature

That is a big bunch of gold that will allow us to deficit research a good bit (we went from 20 gold to 540 gold). We maintain our monopoly on Drama and the culture factory Theatres. However, more people have Music and Notre Dame is in danger. However, Bismarck lacks Stone. Our Production demograhic is also nearly double our nearest rival. So, while tempted, I do not switch London from National Epic to Notre Dame.

We maintain Philosophy and Drama over everyone, and only lack Theology (Egypt) and Feudalism (Egypt and Germany).

Bumping research up to 80% (-8 gold per turn), shaves a turn off of Civil Service. :thumbsup:

(9) 780 AD
Hastings builds a Theatre. Time for a Forge in 10.
Cantebury builds a Theatre. Taoism Monastery in 5 for the 2 culture. Note, a Confucian Academy is available to build (+50% research, +2 happy). We should decide if we want to use these on border towns for culture boosts, as happiness increasers in our biggest cities, or as methods of pursuing a culture victory.

(10) 800 AD
Another Hindu missionary from Hatshepsut enters our lands near York. This is almost certainly just passing through like the last one, and there's no reason to cancel Open Borders (since there's so much gold to be had in sending missionaries to their lands).

York builds a Library. A Forge in 7 would be nice, but another Confucian Missionary in 3 is prudent.

We conquer:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/LK113_800AD_Orelans.jpg
Hooray for getting Music first (that is what enabled this). It starts a Theatre in 17 to help with the war (note that it was already Confucian).

Bismarck converts to Hinduism. I think he was Buddist before. This is the product of those Missionaries going through our lands.

Third try's a charm and Hastings is finally Confucian.

Begin a safe chop between Canterbury and York that will go to Canterbury in 5 turns. The build after the Taoist Monastery (finishes in 4) should be selected with that in mind.

The addition of Orleans increases our maintenance costs considerably. After Forges (and another Missionary) we should build Courthouses. The 80% research rate is running a -24 gold deficit now, but still shaves a turn off of Civil Service.

The borders of Coventry continue to soften slowly. At the start of my turn, the tile west of Coventry was 90% Incan, it is now 74%.

After Forges, Missionaries, and Courthouses, both Hastings and Nottingham should help with Wonder duty. Markets in London and York would help our money situation considerably.

National Wonder Allocations:
London (Production): Iron Works, National Epic
York (Coin): Wall Street, Oxford
Nottingham (Specialists): Globe Theatre

--- The Save --- (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/LK113_AD-0800.Civ4SavedGame)

Roster:
LKendter
Methos
Vol - just played
MeteorPunch - UP! (Missionaries, missionaries!)
Tinkez - on deck

As I recall the National Epic pre-patch was found to provide the 100% gpp boost only to artists. Is that still true?

As I recall the National Epic pre-patch was found to provide the 100% gpp boost only to artists. Is that still true?Haven't heard that one.

We launch an attack on the French (the only way one can in Always Peace): Very nice. :goodjob:

A Hindu Missionary from Hatshepsut breaches our borders near York. I could cancel Open Borders to prevent this.Why try to prevent this? We need as many religions as possible to try for Cultural.

Playing in a little bit.

Signed up:
LKendter
Methos
Vol
MeteorPunch (currently playing)
Tinkez (on deck)

Remember 10 turns per round. STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to at complete.

Win target: Diplomatic, cultural or space with the game parameters.

There was no reason to prevent it. But it was an option, so I presented both sides of the matter. Early in this game, many considered my signing Open Borders with everyone a blunder, so its a topic worth further discussion.

I have never heard or seen any problems with my National Epics.

Wow, just went through 18 pages of the search forum looking for the statement on National Epic, and couldn’t find it. From memory I recall the discussion was on the percentage chance of a specific great leader when you had x amount of certain specialists (other than artist) and the National Epic. The debate was that the percentage chance of getting a great artist was a lot higher than it should be considering the amount of gpp’s going towards a great artist compared to those from the non-artist specialist and wonders. The theory in that thread was the +100% possibly was only applied to great artist.

Now, in my search for that discussion I came across Kylearan’s Great People Points Explained (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=146174) thread. After reading it through I realize the original mistake made in the discussion I can’t seem to find. It appears that the percentage chance is decided on sources of gpp’s, and not the gpp’s themselves. I did not realize that.

Sorry for once again bringing up something that was completely wrong. I need to have the source before stating it. Again, my apologies.

Getting more Great Artists is not a problem in this game. In fact, thats probably a good thing (if the bug is real and still exists), as this will mean less Prophets, which are much less useful now.

We definitely want two Great Scientists for Academies in London and York (and perhaps Nottingham), and last I checked it was like an 80% chance of a Scientist in London.

151 800 start on a couple of workers and a settler.
152 820 We are the largest Civilization.
153 840 London finishes the National Epic.
155 880 A tough decision comes up - where to put Notre Dame. It boosts Artist production +2. I could put it in London, which is our "all-everything" city, but instead is put in Nottingham which will become a Great Artist farm (maybe?). London may have the National Epic boosting GPP production, but that is spent on other types of Great People and would be counter-productive to making only Artists.

Not having a set victory in an SG is kind of difficult for Civ 4 because everything is so specialized. Going for every victory at once is doable, but kind of messy strategically.

156 900 Civil Service is learned, starting Machinery.
158 940 Islam is founded in Egypt.
159 960 Oxford, our only ocean town and decent city site left, is founded.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/MP_LK113_03.JPG

- a switch to Beauracracy may be in order now. Other civics I don't think we should change at the moment.

Signed up:
LKendter (on deck)
Methos
Vol
MeteorPunch
Tinkez (currently playing)

Remember 10 turns per round. STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to at complete.

Win target: Diplomatic, cultural or space with the game parameters.

Oh, I think Space is definitely the only option that isn't extremely painful. Would require a lot of effort for the rest of the game to tool-up for Culture victory. And Diplomacy is a bit of a crap-shoot, and we're too far behind in the religion-spreading.

This game is in the bag, though. Our lead in research and production capabilities will just continue to grow.

Question for the group: There are many large islands around this Natural Pangaea. Should we focus research and building (and boosting our one ocean town) for this land grab, or let the other Civs take it all?

I think I'd like to see us try and get at least something. Without pressing for it urgently, get the necessary techs and build a boat (perhaps whip it), put a Settler in it, and travel around until an empty island is found.

Got it. Will play still today.

Well, my time reserved this evening got different priorities as I accidentally spilled a cup full of juice to the keyboard. :thumbdown:

Spent the next 2,5 hours taking the whole keyboard to pieces, cleaning, drying and putting it back together. Made it atleast back to a working one :goodjob:

Then to the turns:

Pre-flight check: Confucianism is the largest religion with 20%. Newcastle and Oxford still without it - need to spread it there to get 25% state religion bonus. Let's keep spreading the religion to get more money. We're currently getting only 7gpt from the Shrine

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/religion.JPG

Check our opponents and only Rome and Mongols are lacking Civil service and they have Feudalism. Trade CS to Mongols for Feudalism + 30gp. Now I can do a revolution next turn (lots of builds finish in 1) and get bureacracy & serfdom with 1 turn anarchy - there's still lots of places that need worker actions and 50% faster suits us just fine :)

London will pop a great people next turn - let's see if we get a scientist to build an academy:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/LondonGPP.JPG

1010AD: We get Machinery, start Paper. This will get us closer to Liberalism and Mercantilism which are both good choices. There's also Education before that to allow Oxford University with Universities. If we're going to space, we need to boost the research.

I change my mind on the double revolution: Serfdom would increase our upkeep by 7gpt - too much! Bureaucracy does that only by 2gpt and London will cover that. Revolution to Bureaucracy it is.

Seems we rolled a 17% with the dice and got a great engineer. He will rush a wonder, but the question is which one? The best choice here is Sistine chapel to Nottingham after Notre Dame. This will boost great artist generation in that city even more.

IBT: Anarchy is over.
Egypt completes Chichen Itza - a great choice in always peace game! :crazyeye:

1020AD: Boost in London from Bureaucracy is 22 commerce. That's nice - a market will be nice there. Boost research to 80%.

1030AD: Ceasar is lacking Civil service, but has got 350gp. As he and Napoleon are the only ones without it, I sell it to him for all his gold. This will allow us run research @80% for a good while.

1040AD: Nada.

1050AD: Use Huyana Capac's farms to bring irrigation closer to Nottingham.
I dial up Ceasar and he says: "I just built a war elephant!" I respond: YOU IDIOT! ARE YOU GONNA BUILD COLOSSEUM AND START A CIRCUS? You can't wage a war with these settings! :lol:

Anyway, I end up trading spices to his Rice. It actually makes me wonder - how does the AI react if you make demands to them in an always peace game?? :confused: Well, the answer is easy: You can't make demands. :eek:

IBT: Paper is discovered. Start education to get universities.

1060AD: Spread confucianism to Oxford. Change research to Theology as Notre Dame will be finished next turn and we can't trade for Theology. I want to secure the Sistine chapel for us. It will take 2 turns to get Theology.

IBT: Nottingham finishes Notre Dame, starts a Theatre. This city will spit out some great artists in the near future. We just need the theatre, some specialists, the Sistine Chapel and the Globe Theatre :D

1070AD: Nada.

1080AD: We get Theology and Nottingham finishes Theatre. Sistine Chapel is rushed with the great engineer. Let's see if someone was building it by checking the money from our competitors. All are now broke.

IBT: Paper has a lot of interest - Egypt offers Compass and 430gp for it! The sistine was almost finished there!!

Nottingham finishes Sistine Chapel - but we got the confirmation from Egypt already. Start Globe theatre.

1090AD: I decide to take advantage of Egypt's money. We have monopoly on paper - not trading that yet away. Instead following deal is made: Music to Egypt for Compass+WM+290gp.

1100AD:Spread Confucianism to Newcastle. Now all our own cities have confucianism and there is one missionary heading to Berlin (on go-to) and other one coming up soon.

There's a lot of courthouses currently being built, we run -19gpt @ 80% research. Courthouses and missionaries will help this. At some point we need to get Grocers and Banks, but I'd make a run to Mercantilism and use the free great merchant to get us some gold from the trade route option.

2 AI already have Optics - worth trading soon and then start going for lone island search. Up to Lee though.

The save is here (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/LK113_AD-1100.Civ4SavedGame)

Signed up:
LKendter (currently playing)
Methos (on deck)
Vol
MeteorPunch
Tinkez

Remember 10 turns per round. STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to at complete.

Win target: Diplomatic, cultural or space with the game parameters.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/LK113AD-1200.zip


1100 AD
I fix Warwick to start let it growing. All of the water tiles are a ton of commerce, and I hate to throw it away for a couple of shields. Especially when the city has a granary.

I whip a granary in Newcastle. It will quickly pay for itself as we get to use all those water tiles.
Orleans is in a culture war, so I put a 2 culture point monastery ahead of the courthouse.

We have done a good job with getting Confucianism to our own cities. Since we founded Taoism I would like to get that to all of our cities.
(IT) I don't think Rome will get much from copper, so I accept the sugar for copper trade from him.


1110 AD
(IT) London really rocks for production, and can finish a granary is just one turn.


1120 AD
(IT) Egypt comes offering maps for trade.
The will now trade optics. I give them philosophy for optics, and $110.

I don't know if we will get it, but I start London on Angkor Wat. We may as well get the most from the National Epic.


1130 AD
Berlin rejects the way on Confucianism.
Newcastle may hate me for a while, but it is whipped again for a granary.


1140 AD
(IT) I don't think I have ever seen this many GP as the same time!

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/LAK-1080.jpg



1150 AD
Coventry accepts the way of Taoism. I always like more culture buildings for towns fighting for control of their borders.
Egypt rejects Confucianism. This isn't one of my better turns for spreading religion. :(


1160 AD
Taoism has spread to New Orleans.


1190 AD
Taoism has been accepted in London.
(IT) Sorry, Napoleon, but we won't cancel our deals with Egypt.


1200 AD
We visit the Romans in Antium, and spread Confucianism.
It is a bit lopsided, but I give Rome paper and Theology for Engineering and $10.


==========================

Summary:
Keep spamming out the missionaries. I want all English cities to have Taoism, and Confucianism everywhere. Very long term we can add Hinduism and Buddhism to our cities.

Divine Right is due in 3 turns. There is a great engineer by Canterbury to rush one of the wonders from this tech. I would prefer the Spiral Minaret, but would be happy with either.
Make sure to immediately swap to the wonder that we can get, and then continue the FP in Canterbury. With this level of culture I suspect we will convert Rheims to an English city soon enough.

Signed up:
LKendter
Methos (currently playing)
Vol (on deck)
MeteorPunch
Tinkez

Remember 10 turns per round. STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to at complete.

Win target: Space, as the other peaceful options don't seem that practical.

Got it....

Divine Right is due in 3 turns. There is a great engineer by Canterbury to rush one of the wonders from this tech. I would prefer the Spiral Minaret, but would be happy with either.
Make sure to immediately swap to the wonder that we can get, and then continue the FP in Canterbury.

From this statement I gather you want to build either wonder in Canterbury. The problem is Egypt beat us to the Spiral Minaret, which leaves us Versailles. IMO it would hurt us by putting Versailles in the same city as we're building the FP. What about putting Versailles in either Hastings or Coventry? I'm not as sure about putting it in Coventry but it would definitely help fight back in its culture war.

Recall Versailles reduces city maintainence in nearby cities, just the same as the FP.

I have to stop at this point for an hour or so anyway, so hopefully someone offers their opinion.

The problem is Egypt beat us to the Spiral Minaret, which leaves us Versailles.

Oops - I missed that detail. :(
I would suggest the city along our western border that is fighting culture war, IIRC that is Conventry as you suggested. No matter what it will be nice to get another economy wonder. With this game heading toward space race anything that gets us a economic advantage is good.

Turn 180 (1200 AD)
Methos: MM Canterbury to speed up growth. It slows the FP down but additional citizens are more important IMO.
Methos: Coventry needs a culture boost bad. It is currently on 93% English.
York finishes: Taoist Monastery
Nottingham grows: 15
Coventry grows: 8
Newcastle grows: 2

Turn 181 (1210 AD)
York begins: Confucian Missionary
Methos: Looks like we got beat to the Spiral Minaret. Wow, considering we're still two turns from the required tech. Guess we waited to long to research it.
Methos: Both Inca and France have closed borders with us so I send our missionary to Roman lands. The city of Rome appears to have no religion at size 12, so that is my intended route.
Methos: Interesting, it appears that the Romans have three cities with no religion. This means are missionaries have a 100% chance of success! Time for a missionary invasion of Roman lands.
Hastings finishes: Confucian Missionary

Turn 182 (1220 AD)
Hastings begins: Confucian Monastery
Tech learned: Divine Right
London finishes: Angkor Wat
York finishes: Confucian Missionary
Nottingham finishes: Library
Orleans's borders expand
Confucianism has spread: Frankfurt (German Empire)

Turn 183 (1230 AD)
Research begun: Education
London begins: Taoist Monastery
York begins: Hindu Monastery
Nottingham begins: Taoist Missionary
Methos: The decision for Versailles is Coventry so Heron heads that way. It'll take him 3 turns to get there.
Methos: I thought we were not allowed to have more than 2 of the same type of missionaires at any one time? Odd, since we currently have three Confucian missionaries.
Methos: Coventry's borders have pushed over a little. Looks like the culture wars are leaning more our way.
London's borders expand
Confucianism has spread: Arretium (Roman Empire)

Turn 184 (1240 AD)
Confucianism has spread: Rome (Roman Empire)
Methos: Looks like Confucianism spread to the Roman city of Arretium before our missionary could even get there. Lol!
Methos: The missionary that was in route to Arretium turns and heads towards Cumae instead.
Tech learned: Education
London grows: 13
London finishes: Taoist Monastery
Nottingham finishes: Taoist Missionary
Hastings finishes: Confucian Monastery
Canterbury grows: 7
Coventry finishes: Taoist Monastery
Orleans finishes: Courthouse

Turn 185 (1250 AD)
Research begun: Printing Press
London begins: Confucian Missionary
Nottingham begins: University
Hastings begins: University
Coventry begins: Forge
Coventry begins: Buddhist Temple
Orleans begins: Forge
Coventry begins: Versailles
Methos: Heron adds +660 hammers towards Versailles, so it'll take Coventry 6 more turns to finish.
Methos: One of our missionaries spots an unknown Roman city with no religious influence. I once again switch the one missionary to head towards Arpinum instead.
London finishes: Confucian Missionary
York finishes: Hindu Monastery
Nottingham grows: 16
Warwick grows: 3
Oxford grows: 3

Turn 186 (1260 AD)
London begins: University
York begins: University
Confucianism has spread: Arpinum (Roman Empire)
Confucianism has spread: Ravenna (Roman Empire)
Taoism has spread: Oxford
Newcastle grows: 3

Turn 187 (1270 AD)
Methos: Our eastern front grains ground, as we have now captured the cow west of Rheims.
York grows: 16

Turn 188 (1280 AD)
Thespis (Great Artist) born in London

Turn 189 (1290 AD)
Methos: Huayna Capac attempts to convert us to Hereditory Rule. I say no.
Methos: Thespis, a great artist, is born in London. I send him to Coventry for now, though I will wait for team discussion.
London finishes: University
Nottingham finishes: University
Canterbury finishes: Forbidden Palace

Turn 190 (1300 AD)
London begins: Confucian Missionary
Nottingham begins: Confucian Missionary
Canterbury begins: University
Confucianism has spread: Pisae (Roman Empire)

Here, a great artist, is currently sitting in Coventry with movement left. I believe performing a great works in Coventry would be our best bet. This would definitely help in our western cultural front. With Versailles and the great artist Coventry would expand to the 5k culture mark in 24 turns, if we didn’t build anymore cultural improvements.

Versailles will be finished next turn.

I have already finished two universities and am working on three more. We need one more city to build one more in order to meet the requirements for Oxford University.

Liberalism, Astronomy, and Guilds are known by the AI but due to having a monopoly on them won’t trade.

York has a hill that needs to be mined, so after the worker finishes the cottage I suggest moving him there. I wouldn’t chop down anymore of Nottingham’s forest, as it is currently at five. I’m farming a grassland tile as IMO this could be a great specialist city.

We are currently earning 21 gpt due to Confucianism, and 11 due to Taoism. Julius Caesar has converted to Confucianism.

Here's the 1300 AD save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/LK113_AD-1300.Civ4SavedGame).

Here, a great artist, is currently sitting in Coventry with movement left.
Drop the culture bomb. I think we can flip the French city north of it.

(0) 1300 AD
First things first:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/LK113_1300AD_Great_Artist.jpg
Not huge gains, but it secures Coventry from the threat of the Incan capital just 5 tiles away.

Losing 21 gold/turn with 334 in the bank is too painful, I reduce to 80% and we're a +4 gold/turn.

Well, uh... wow. Somehow we are down two techs to Egypt. :eek: We have a solid lead in GNP, running a high research rate, and we have the Great Library. I wonder if all that trading of really useful techs like Civil Service didn't put us in a bit of a hole. Being down Astronomy is big: it enables Observatories and another +25% research. Either way, we have a new primary goal: Technology dominance!

If we want to establish a serious lead in technology, we need the economy to support it. We need to be able to run 90% research with positive income. This means more courthouses (we're missing 3), more Confucian Missionaries (much easier to focus Coin income in one holy city than two), and a Market in York! With the economy shored up, we'll want to focus on research boosts.

Every city has abundant happiness and health, except York and Nottingham. Nottingham switches to an Aqueduct (was at 17/14 health). Also, somewhere along the way, someone decided two chop two of London's forests, and we aren't even working either tile now. If we aren't going to work or improve a chopped forest tile, for the love of god, please let the trees stand and wait for Lumbermills + Railroads in our only city with decent production capability.[pissed]

I cancel the trade with Hatshepsut where we were giving Corn for Wine, despite having our own wine. Now this made sense back before we had Monarchy, but this really should have been cancelled 30 turns ago. :rolleyes: We have another trade with her (Fur for Fish), so we wouldn't be missing out on any trade relations boost, either.

(1) 1310 AD
We build Versailles in Coventry. Order up a University to help meet requirement for Oxford.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/LK113_1310AD_Versailles.jpg
The culture boost will be very helpful in this high-culture border war.

We learn Printing Press.

With the reduced maintenance from Versailles and the +1 gold from Villages and Towns from Printing Press, we gain 8 gold/turn in coin (which, at 20% gold/80% research means we gained ~32 more commerce/turn).

London builds Confucian Missionary, and starts on another in 1 turn.

Our research options:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/LK113_1310AD_Research.jpg

Free Speech (+100% culture and +2 commerce from Towns) from Liberalism (requires Nationalism and Constitution) would be great if we didn't have to give up Bureaucracy to do it. Liberalism has no other benefit (we're not going to run Free Religion and lose our +25% hammer boost), since it has already been researched.

Gunpowder is needed for Chemistry, prereq for Scientific Method, and Gunpowder -> Rifling is required for Rocketry, but it has no immediate benefit.

Nationalism and The Taj Majal would be a decent Wonder for the Golden Age, but the hammers required to build it frequently offset the hammers you gain during the Golden Age.

Astronomy has the +25% research Observatories (which you really need to have in place before researching Scientific Method and losing the +10% Monasteries), but we still need Universities in most places. However, it allows Galleons instead of Galleys, and we will want to research this before the Galley we are building finishes.

The clear winner is Guilds. Grocers would add +25% more coin in London and York, and Health in other cities like Nottingham. It leads to Banking, Economics, and Corporation. With that line researched, we could be +2 trade routes (with Free Market), +75% coin (Grocers and Banks), get a Free Great Merchant (save for a Golden Age?), and be able to build Wall Street. Banking also leads to Replaceable Parts and Lumbermills.

(2) 1320 AD
London builds Confucian Missionary, and starts on another in 1 turn.

(3) 1330 AD
London builds Confucian Missionary, and starts on a Chariot in 1. We're at the limit on Confucian Missionaries, and we have two cities without MP (and thus incurring a happiness penalty).

Nottingham builds Aqueduct, and starts on a Market in 5 to amplify the +11 coin from the Taoist Shrine.

Hatshepsut builds the Jewish Shrine.

Confucianism is added to Elephantine (Egyptian).

We can afford to run at 90% research for a bit (-18 gold/turn).

(4) 1340 AD
We learn Guilds. Banking in 2 (wow that's quick!). Note that Grocers are +3 Health buildings, as we have Spices, Sugar and Wine (yes, we have no Bananas).

Huanya Capac has Banking already, so its a race to Economics and the Great Merchant.

York builds a University. Starts a Market in 7 to add +25% to the +22 coin income from the Confucianist Shrine. I queue up a Grocer lest it be forgotten what the goal is here.

Confucianism is added to Hamburg (German).

Slight blunder: researching Guilds means we build Knights not Chariots, so rather than spend 2 more turns building a Knight at London, I switch to a Grocer in 5. The two fishing villages without MP are nowhere near their happiness limit anyway. :blush:

(5) 1350 AD
Hastings builds a University. 4 down, 2 to go for Oxford. Start a Confucian Missionary in 4.

Orleans builds a Forge. Library in 7.

Bismark completes the Taj Mahal. :( Yeah, he must have had a Great Engineer for that one. So he's in his Golden Age.

(6) 1360 AD
We learn Banking. Economics in 5 for Free Market and a Great Merchant.

Confucianism is added to Thebes (Egyptian).

(7) 1370 AD
Wow, nothing.

(8) 1380 AD
London builds a Grocer. Confucian Missionary started in 1.
Nottingham builds a Market. Grocer in 5 to increase shrine coin and +3 health.

(9) 1390 AD
London builds a Confucian Missionary. Starts a Bank.
Nottingham builds a Confucian Missionary. Starts another in 4.
Canterbury finishes a University. The one in Coventry is the last required for Oxford. Start a Taoist Temple in 3.

Can increase science to 100% and shave a turn off of Economics. :goodjob:

(10) 1400 AD
We learn Economics first and get a free Great Merchant. Corporation requires Constitution. Constitution would give us Representation (we're still Despotic). But we should start Observatories, so I select Astronomy in 7 (after turning research back down to 90%, still a -7 gold/turn loser).

Popped another one! We find a new Source of Silver at Nottingham! We did not have any before, so we just got +2 happier (Forges add +1)!! :woohoo:

Notes:
- We need to build 6 banks for Wall Street. London, York, and Nottingham are no-brainers, but three other low-coin producing towns (perhaps Coventry, Hastings, and Canterbury) must build one so that we can double our Shrine income in York.
- I say save the Great Merchant until we get a Great Prophet we don't want. Alternatively, do a big trade mission, and do deficit research.
- After Astronomy, I say beeline to Democracy. Universal Suffrage and Emancipation are big wins (as is Representation along the way). Statue of Liberty is a must to boost our research. Hermitage could really help the border war at Coventry.
- After Democracy, come back to Gunpowder -> Chemistry -> Scientific Method -> Physics & Biology. Scientific Method kills the Great Library and Monastaries, so I'd rather not rush to those immediately. Hatshepsut lacks Gunpowder, so there's no threat to Physics yet. But the free Great Engineer and the farming boost from Biology are essential.
- We need to figure out an irrigation plan east of Canterbury and Orleans. We may have to destroy some Cottages.
- We also need to decide where to put the Cathedrals. We had one available for a long time. Both Coventry and Canterbury could use the 50% culture boost, although no city needs the +2 happiness.
- Nottingham could use more +Artist point Wonders. It really can't keep up with the ever-increasing point requirement at 6 GPP/turn if London is producing 36 GPP/turn. Perhaps after the Grocer finishes and the city is healthy again, run an Artist specialist or two?
- Hastings is in funk. This city just doesn't seem to be living up to its potential, but I'm a bit baffled as to what to do about it.
- I really don't think trading techs with our opponents is wise. We tend to get bad beaker exchange ratios, the AIs only spread the techs amongst themselves, and I really believe we can research by ourself faster. Don't let the lure of a short-term gain put us in a long-term hole.
- I have not revolted to Free Market, please do so immediately!! (I didn't want to hand off an Anarchy turn). Also, whatever you do, don't switch to Mercantilism instead. That free specialist looks appealing, but the loss in trade is crushing. Building buildings is all we do, so Organized Religion remains the most important civic we have.

Missionaries are on auto-move to:
- Pi-Ramesses
- Memphis
- Cologne
Converting both Bismark and Hatshepsut to Confucianism might open up the possibility of a U.N. victory.

Along those lines, why not get some more relations bonuses with the people who like us, and are no threat:
- Kublai Khan is well behind in techs (at least 5 or 6), so I trade him Wine for 6 gold/turn
- Bismark is down 6 techs as well, and gets Corn for 4 gold/turn.
Hopefully this will give us +4 from Forthright Trade Relations and +1 for Appreciation of Supplying Resources.

Great Merchant Trade Mission Payoffs:
- Thebes: 1500 gold
- Karakorum: 1500 gold
- Turfan: 1300 gold
- Rome: 1300 gold
- Ravenna: 1100 gold
- Elephantine: 1100 gold
- Frankfurt: 1100 gold
- Hamburg: 900 gold
These can be checked by queuing the travel and mousing over the trade mission icon in cities we have line-of-sight at. Unfortunately, in the course of doing this, I moved the Great Merchant out of London, so he's chilling next to Rheims at the moment.

London has a 25% chance of producing a Great Prophet, and we'll be getting a new Great Person in 6 turns there. Perhaps then would be a good time to decide. Next Great Artist should go to Orleans to get us some Ivory.

There's some forest chops going on, all outside city workable tiles:
- East of Oxford, for a Granary in 3.
- West of Newcastle, will go to London in 3.
- South of Nottingham in 3.
- The forest tile near York being roaded for quick access to Egypt should also be chopped.

--- The Save --- (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/LK113_AD-1400.Civ4SavedGame)

Roster:
LKendter
Methos
Vol - just played
MeteorPunch - UP! (Revolt, revolt!)
Tinkez - on deck

Well, uh... wow. Somehow we are down two techs to Egypt.

Egypt was the first to get Liberalism which grants a free tech.

Also, somewhere along the way, someone decided two chop two of London's forests, and we aren't even working either tile now.

To be honest I was a little curious to this as well, even though I did a little chopping myself. When the game was passed to me it appeared a couple workers had just finished chopping forest so I was under the impression that was the plan. I chopped a couple forests, but not many. You could say I’m one of those tree-huggers in CivIV. I did chop two plains forests in London located along the river. My intention was to farm them to increase food and citizens. IMO those two farmed plains would help in the long run.

I have not revolted to Free Market, please do so immediately!! (I didn't want to hand off an Anarchy turn). Also, whatever you do, don't switch to Mercantilism instead. That free specialist looks appealing, but the loss in trade is crushing.

In a SP game I chose Mercantilism rather than Free Market and IMO it sucks! I stayed that way for about ten turns but it was doing so poorly compared to the worst economy civic that I switched to Free Market. There was a big difference. Definitely stay away from Mercantilism. There must be a point sometime where it’s a worthy civic, but I have yet to find it.

Since we are mass spreading missionaries a UN victory may be the most challenging. IMO a space victory isn't going to be much of a challenge at all. By going for a UN victory we'll have to continue working on upping our relations with everyone.

While letting Egypt get Liberalism was certainly unfortunate, not having any techs up on them was even more of a concern.

Yeah, I had to prove how bad Mercantilism was in both LK110 and LotR17 when the preceding player chose it over Free Market. The analysis in both cases showed the very wide margin. I think only with variants like RB1 is Mercantilism worthwhile, but only if you have Represenation and perhaps Sistene Chapel and are using it well before Free Market. Or perhaps in an AW OCC it would make sense (no cities to trade with whatsoever).

Pursing the U.N. victory takes almost no resources. We would spread missionaries anyway for the income. A few minor trades here and there to boost relations. We're charging ahead to Space at full speed, but you might be surprised, as some were in LK110, that a U.N. Victory might be possible a good bit earlier. Doesn't hurt to try, could get us a victory 30 to 40 turns sooner. If you doubt this, go read LK110.

1400 Revolt to Free Market.
1430 Hurry a galley at Oxford for 1 pop.
1440 Start on a longbow and settler.
1470 Astronomy discovered. starting Liberalism.
A great scientist is born. Didn't do anything with him.
upgrade our galley to a galleon, load with settler, worker, and longbow.
1500 Liberalism discovered.

- We could revolt to free speech and free religion now, or wait until democracy and revolt to universal sufferage and emancipation as well.
- Where do we want Oxford? I'd put it in York, which is making 104 science to London's 158 (with beauracracy). With beauracracy gone, I think they'd be even. This would be London's last National wonder.
- Great Scientist? Academy in York, London, or a GA?
- some missionaries are on auto-goto.
- for the next players to play with:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/MP_LK113_04.JPG

London gets Iron Works and National Epic.
York gets Wall Street and Oxford.
Nottingham gets Globe Theatre (and perhaps Hermitage for Artist points?)

Put the Academy in London since we're in Bureaucracy. We'll get another Great Scientist soon enough for York.

Free Religion is definitely a loser. The happiness is not needed (no city is within 4 of the limit), and the +10% research isn't worth as much as the +25% hammers are.

I think Free Speech is a loser as well for now, as London is our only decent production city and having the Bureaucracy amplification of its hammers (and don't forget all that research), is important. The benefit from +2 commerce from our Towns is actually less than the +50% commerce from Bureaucracy in London. Do not switch from Bureaucracy unless you want less research and production (check the before and after beaker count yourself).

So yeah, I don't understand why we researched Liberalism. No free tech, no useable civics, not a prereq for anything.

Also, whats the reason behind the Taoist Shrine in London? It is at 14/21 on happiness, so the +2 happiness is not useful. It shares no borders and we're not going for cultural victory so the +50% culture is not useful. And we aren't running any Priests and we have a max of 4, so the ability to have 2 more is not useful. Seems like a waste of hammers to me when London doesn't have an Observatory yet. :confused:

Finally, why are we sending Taoist Missionaries around when we don't have Confucianism everywhere? Confucianism is much more effective as we'll have Wall Street in that town. Spreading Taoism too much means everyone will go Free Religion and we'll lose the diplomatic boosts.

This game is really playing fast. By the time I get home and can update the roster two more players are done! Does always peace make things that easy to decide?

Spreading Taoism too much means everyone will go Free Religion and we'll lose the diplomatic boosts. I agree on this one. I was only spreading Taoism into our own cities. I see now reason to give any foreign city Taoism. Of course, we can only build so many missionaries at once, and that is part of my I build some Taoist ones.

Signed up:
LKendter (on deck)
Methos
Vol
MeteorPunch
Tinkez (currently playing)

Remember 10 turns per round. STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to at complete.

Win target: Space, as the other peaceful options don't seem that practical.

So yeah, I don't understand why we researched Liberalism. No free tech, no useable civics, not a prereq for anything.I thought those civics may be useful based on a switch from Beauracracy, but I was just going by instinct. If you've done the math, I'll trust that.
Also, whats the reason behind the Taoist Shrine in London? It is at 14/21 on happiness, so the +2 happiness is not useful. It shares no borders and we're not going for cultural victory so the +50% culture is not useful. And we aren't running any Priests and we have a max of 4, so the ability to have 2 more is not useful. Seems like a waste of hammers to me when London doesn't have an Observatory yet. :confused:There was nothing useful to build in London, but yeah I should've switched and left it in the queue.
Finally, why are we sending Taoist Missionaries around when we don't have Confucianism everywhere? Confucianism is much more