i hate to make an other thread that is simply about an idea i have but am unable to create but i think a Dune mod would go really great with Civ 4

I have lots of ideas but in general this game could give a really nice gameplay with dune and it could follow the book(s) really closely

you (moders) could really make this on alot of levels you could just be simple and make a dune map with units like sandworms, basic atreides and harkonen infantry, then imperial sardaukers, standard infantry and laz gun infantry, ornithopters, and a few fremen types.
or you could make new religions like Budislamics or whatever the reverand mothers are, you could make buildings dealing with the books like fountains which would add happiness or something, moisture collectors which could add food (isn't food but more the idea that they support a population) and then new resources like moisture, sandtrout, or obviously spice melange.

The factions would be the Harkonen, Atreides, Fremen, Imperials, Maybe even the guild or rebels / raiders like what the atreides disentigrated into.

i have alot of ideas but overall i just think this is a great mod basis and although i hate to waste more thread space with an idea that more then likely won't fly i hope someone takes up the task

Yep, Dune rules and a mod would be cool :)

There are many people who only know the computer games though, and they will definitely want an Ordos civ.

I think sand should be impassable for most units, by the way.
Refineries could be based on the 'crawler' units (posted somewhere on this boards)

I was actually thinking about making a Dune mod for a little while. I even made a map for it with YAME. It was pretty easy to do since its essentially just desert and desert hills.

I might actually make the scenario some time, but not seriously for a while. I actually have a notebook filled with ideas I came up with.

I tried making a Dune mod for Civ2 a long time ago. I had the map and the terrain graphics done and some techs like 'Sabular Dynamics' and 'Spice Refining'. :crazyeye:

the only hard part would be making the new units but the mod could go into depth and get more complicated as it got more accurate and i really have no expertise i just think it would work really well be alot of fun

I know this is a dead thread, but if anyone is still interested in this, please private message me.

The spice must flow

(I'm in)

I'll try to help when I can.

But please, please, don't integrate the prequels or anything Brian related in the game. :)

I think sand should be impassable for most units, by the way.


I don't think so. I would prefer it if just the sandworms can't cross the rocks.

Sandworms = barbarians

As I said earlier, I made a map while ago of the North Polar Region of Dune. It includes where almost all of the events of the first book (except for the stuff that happens in the, well, South Polar Region). If anyone wants it I can put it up.

Yes please!

It'll be a great place to start testing everything, and probably highest interest for fellow fans.

I'm not saying we have to restrict the mod to Arrakis, because I've always wanted to fight on Caladan, Giedi Prime, etc.

I've never read the prequels, and I'm most enthusiastic about books 1-4 (Dune to God Emperor of Dune). And while I've played most of the Dune computer games, I don't see any specific reason to clone parts of them. If the mod progresses really well, other fans can go ahead and add on whatever they want.

I think technology can start anywhere from pre-Dune (space flight / 2006 era) and go up to GEoD tech.

There's some good threads about a Dune mod in the Civ III mod section, I tried PM/emailing authors about their ideas;
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=121203&highlight=dune
and http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=109112&highlight=dune

-e

Ok, here is the map. I was pretty meticulous as I made it, trying to be as accurate as possible. Hope you like it!

I think the scenario would do best as kind of limited 'fight for dune' situation, just on the planet Arrakis. I have a bunch of ideas written down about it, but I don't really have the time to put them all up here right now.

Thanks Gunnar for the prompt reply and the map! I'm going to fool around with more total conversion ideas, but there definately have to be some scenarios; I mean, who doesn't want to replay the invasion/Shield Wall battle?

I also think that the ideal period for the mod would be from Dune to Children of Dune, and only on Arrakis (however, a clever guy could think of a ingenious ways to integrate off-planet elements such as CHOAM and the Space Guild). North Pole map is perfect for that.

Following books could be considered but I think it should come after the first versions.

[A 2006toDune scenario would be far too big! Dune is occuring in +/- 10000.. And I'm not sure if it's the Christian Era ;)]

About the other computer games, I've only played Dune (Cryo) and Dune 2 (Westwood) back in time, but I didn't like what I saw of the more recents (Robots and Mechs on Dune ? Come on!). The books are rich enough I think. :)

If someone take the lead and put a team together, please contact me. I'll be more than happy to participate.

I think your're right. It might be doable, but years would have to fly by (100/turn?) until the time we're interested in. We can set it between any reasonable prehistory time and the end of Paul's reign.

I have to agree that basing the timeline from Dune to Children of Dune would be best starting out. But if you were going to go all the way to God Emporer, then maybe there could be some wonder that is equivalent to transforming into the God Emporer, but now not only Leto will have the chance. >:) But there definetly will need to be some scenarios from the second triligy (God Emporeur of Dune, Heretics of Dune, blanking but I think there was a sixth book or did Leto die in Heretics.. may have to dig the books out of storage), I would love to play the last battle were leto is dropped into the river and the sandworms, the great Shaitan, is reborn to the desert world. And how about a 'what if' scenario that takes place after the duncan ghoula and crew take the sand worm and bail form the Know Universe. Could have the evolved face dancers come back and invade the know Universe. Special units could be the Bene Geserits and the evolved geserits(forgetting if they had a special name in the books).. but now I'm just starting to ramble..

Back to makeing the mod..

Don't forget the IX, they are the major developers of technology, ie machines. And the Tethlexu(sp?), gotta have Face Dancer units(maybe with spy abilities). Mentats would be cool, could use them as Great Scientists.

As for Factions.
Obviously, Atraties and Harkonen.
I think adding the Ordos in from the games would be alright, not sure if they are ever mentioned in any of the post-Dune books, but there are hundreds of houses and it might be cool to even make up a few new ones.
The Emporor should also be a faction though some how they should be limited to what type of units they can build.
Fremen should also be a playable faction, but should have their units restricted to only fremen units. Maybe give them a small branch on the tech tree that only they can learn.
I don't think CHOAM or the Spacing Guild should be included as playable factions. However, with a little work TheLopez's Mercenaries Mod could be changed to look like you are buying units from CHOAM, would just have to change the screen names and the alert messages. Just an idea.

As for units, as a player I would love to see the sonic units from the first Dune game(Cryon) wich were infantry. And even maybe the sonic tanks from Dune 2.

Just some ideas, I've always loved dune and hope this mod can come to something. :)

@epu
Since it seems you are takeing over this project, have you started a new thread? If so could you link it here, please. And props on bringing this back to life :>

Jeckel > Sixth book : Chapterhouse ;)

Here a bunch of people who could make it as Civ in a "Only Arrakis Dune Mod"

- House Atreides
- House Harkonnen
- House Corrino (Perhaps ?)
- Fremen (probably 2 to 5 Fremen Civs)
- Spice Smugglers
- Bene Tleilax
- Some Minor House ? Ordos could appear here, a little wink to Dune 2.

The Space Guild and Bene Gesserit (IMO) shouldn't be full civ. Neither would try to take over Dune by themself. They are more political. Perhaps the answer lie in Python like Jeckel suggested. ;) Such "python" organisations could make Dune a very unique MOD I think.

@Supa
Chapterhouse!! Ahh, bless you :> I've been meaning read them again, but have to finish the Chung Koa book I'm reading. Thanx :D

count me in. what do you need? i can input xml files. i can reskin units (barely.) i can change music.

I'd like to help to. Dune is my favorite book.
I'm a good coder but I know little to nothing about XML and Python, but I'm willing to help with coding or with ideas.

we need to do a reskin of the terrain textures for this one. and we would need a model of the sandworm--as the barbarians!

Today I'm going to work on some preliminary Civs:
Atreides
Harkonnen
Corrino
and a few Fremen tribes

I'm also looking into some of the religion mods and trying to see which ones can be changed to suit the different Dune religions: Shai Hu'lud, Orange Catholic, Buddislam, etc.

Sweet. Thanks, fans for your enthusiastic support!

VinnoSMC, there's probably plenty of cpp hooks we need in the SDK if it gets to that, and I think you'll find python pretty straight forward to use and learn.

Let's plan to release modifications under the Creative Commons license here:
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/2.5/

It says a few things I think we can agree on:
we'll attribute everything to the authors who made them, we won't sell anything, and other people can hack on whatever mod we make.

I'm looking through the tech tree to list some inventions, units, and wonders.

sounds really good

Sounds good to me too. I started reading up on Python and XML last night and they seem pretty quick to pick up if you have knowledge of C++/Java and HTML. So I'm psyched.

I was running through some ideas last night for things like UUs that would allow us to bring Fedaykin and Sardaukar into the game play. But I ran into a wall thinking of how to incorporate (unnecessary) aspects like CHOAM, the Lansraad (U.N.?) and the Bene Gesserit into Civ.

Also, should names of cities in the mod be the names of Planets mentioned in the books, and if so which Civs should get which planets?

If you guys have AIM or email feel free to contact me.

AIM: VinnoSMC
E-Mail: vmannering@gmail.com

Peace,
- Vinny

A Dune MOD without the CHOAM or the Bene Gesserit wouldn't be a real Dune mod, rather a make-believe. ;)

The CHOAM should be integrated with Python.

A rought draft : Player A uses his Harverster units (or his Harverster citizens) to "mine" spice. He gets 20 amounts of Spice in his treasure. He decides to sell them immediatly to the CHOAM (Spice treasure of the CHOAM:0). Spice is very rare and CHOAM gives Player A the full price for it (100 Solaris for each amount of spice). Now, the CHOAM has 20 spice units in its treasure. Player B has harvested 20 amounts of spice too. He decides to sell them. CHOAM has already 20 spice, so the price is only half. Player B get 50 Solaris for each spice amount. Over time, the CHOAM will sell and use the spice and its treasure will get back to 0.

It is the way that Spice Commerce is done in the Dune CCG game. I think it could be a very good way to integrate it in Civ-4. It adds a new commercial and policital layer to the game.

CHOAM could also sell weaponry, units and whatever to players.

I think Lansraad is less important than CHOAM but it could be added like the UN-like council of Alpha Centauri.

Also, should names of cities in the mod be the names of Planets mentioned in the books, and if so which Civs should get which planets?


Dune (Cryo) has a lot of Sietch names for the Fremen. Kaminaree already compiled a list for one of the Civ3 Dune mod attempt. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=2888671&postcount=44)
House Harkonnen could already have Carthag.
House Corrino could have Arrakeen.

arrakis only arrakis only arrakis only *chants*

If this is still an active idea i'm willing to help.

Still active, thanks!

I'm in the middle of a move to Chicago, so please bear with my slow replies. I'll be completely unable to respond May 13->22.

Gunner has contributed a map of northern Dune (aka the fun part of Arrakis).
Other users have also voiced support and brainstormed ideas.

I'm trying to drum up enthusiasm. I pulled the latest dll source, chose a creative common license for distribution (to cover any grey area not made explicit under the civilization IV mod terms). I've put together an NSIS installer/uninstaller, and am monkeying with tech tree. I'm in the middle of re-reading Dune (~ page 50) and listing out things. I think I can speed this up by finding a fan with the Dune Encyclopedia?

I think I need to put together
1. a way to contribute changes to the mod source (svn/perforce/darcs repo)
Currently I have everything in darcs, there's a tool to move to whatever we finally decide.
2. a way to communicate together (irc/instant messenger ids)
3. a list of goals, features, ideas. Can we use the civilization wiki to keep project notes together?

-e

>2. a way to communicate together (irc/instant messenger ids)
I'm contactable at ICQ, MSN and Y!Messenger. (Trillian helps ;))
>3. a list of goals, features, ideas. Can we use the civilization wiki to keep project notes together?
I highly doubt it. Why don't we use a public thread in CFC ?

I'm in the middle of re-reading Dune (~ page 50)

I'm in the middle of Messiah myself ;) This one is boring.

GarretSidzaka, I think the first goal should be to create an Arrakis scenario, but I don't think we should make design decisions that exclude playing on another world.


SPOILERS




IIRC, the end of the Dune books seem to imply that the Sand Trout and the worm cycle of life are scattered throughout the duniverse? It might be fun to wormify / spice-ify a non-desert world and watch it become desert-like.

I'm currently re-reading the whole thing, going on page 12 of Dune Messiah. ;)

I've got alot of ideas, regardless of you accepting them or not here is my input:

Economy

- Water
- Spice
- ?

I don't know if the economy part has been decided (no indication on the thread so far) but I think that apart from the logical resource (spice) perhaps there could be (at least), Water. Since I'm not aware of any other possibility, both resources would have to be in fixed locations, spice perhaps shown has a slightly red dust over the terrain and water being represented as a windtrap facility (seeing has there is no surface water on Arrakis).

edit: about the windtrap, remember that oldie Dune 2? A good concept image for the windtrap would be this:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/2f/Duneii-wind-trap.jpg
/end edit

Supa´s post (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=3980048&postcount=32) outlines a great model using spice exchange for money and units


Setting

It seems there is a consensus about using solely Arrakis. Perhaps later on there could be made other maps using the same mod but on different locations.

Factions/Civs

- House Atreides
- House Harkonnen
- House Corrino (defacto Emperor)
- Fremen (various tribes/sietchs or single?)
- House of Ix (?)
- Bene Tleilax/Tleilaxu (would function better as the CHOAM)
- Smugglers

Turns/Period

I think the game should start at 10,191 AG (when Dune begins)

Wiki

If indeed you want to use a Wiki there are many free wiki sites which provide that kind of service. Setting it up is fairly easy and if you want to just drop me a line

Contact

by msn: wyrmtailathotmail.com
by mail: breamelatgmail.com


I've got alot of ideas for techs and religion/ideology but i'm not sure if your guys are past that or you still want me as team member or just brainstorming.

Also, the Dune Encyclopedia is freely available here: http://www.thedune.ru/duneenc/download/DUNE_ENCYCLOPEDIA.pdf
It seems it is out of print due to a copyright issue and it's reprint is forbidden but not public acess to it.

Cheers and sorry for the long post ;)

Has anyone submitted government types/civics yet?

Economy

Water is good, but how could it be integrate ? Windtrap and others buildings (Polar Cap facility) could produce X units of Water per turn. The city (or the whole civilization) could use Y units of Water per turn or start to have problems. Well, like this, it's like food but with building and not citizen ? To keep things clear, perhaps we should use only water and forget about food ?

Spice shouldn't be an inexhaustible resource. I was thinking perhaps it couldn't be used like others resource (in your territory + road) but like this : In your territory or in neutral territory + having a harvester-type unit on it.
Depending of the "harvesting strenght" of the unit and the density of the spice field, the income would change.

The third economy power should be the solaris. Here, it would work like the classic civ money. Produced by citizen, used for tech, etc.

Factions/Civs

- Various fremen tribes. One tribe alone would be too powerful (too much territory)

Team Communication

I don't think a Wiki would be great for an unfinished project. If one thread isn't enough, we should use a private forum.

And thanks for the encyclopedia =)

Economy

Well, perhaps there could be a specific terrain tile where windtraps can be built and (for balance sake) every starting location for every faction has a certain number of tiles, enabling the city to grow. Having that the players would be forced to explore the map looking for suitable places to expand.


Spice shouldn't be an inexhaustible resource. I was thinking perhaps it couldn't be used like others resource (in your territory + road) but like this : In your territory or in neutral territory + having a harvester-type unit on it.
Depending of the "harvesting strenght" of the unit and the density of the spice field, the income would change.

That sounds good but is it feasible from a coding/python/xml point?



The third economy power should be the solaris. Here, it would work like the classic civ money. Produced by citizen, used for tech, etc.


Sounds good.

Factions/Civs


- Various fremen tribes. One tribe alone would be too powerful (too much territory)


Agreed. I thought the same too and also there could be fremen tribes not affiliated to Muad'dib and agressive towards him.

Team Communication


I don't think a Wiki would be great for an unfinished project. If one thread isn't enough, we should use a private forum.


Agreed.


And thanks for the encyclopedia =)

No problem. :) Please note that Frank Herbert himself said that the Encyclopaedia isn't 100% acurate because it is written from a Imperial point of view and some data is inacurate or plain wrong.

GarretSidzaka, I think the first goal should be to create an Arrakis scenario, but I don't think we should make design decisions that exclude playing on another world...


I agree with you, on afterthought. But I'm very interested in the desert planet part of the scenario, and would like to share my xml and basic skinning skills.

If we start it in 10,191 are we going to follow the story and have the harkonnens already set to attack atredies?

If we start it in 10,191 are we going to follow the story and have the harkonnens already set to attack atredies?

I don't know. Perhaps some opposed civics would be best.
I think it would be best to not follow the books and take an alternate path : There isn't one House designed by the Emperor to occupy Arrakis but multiple Houses. As long as the Spice keep flowing, the Emperor wouldn't mind wars and treasons between the Houses.

Following that idea, we could (python ?) add a new importance for the Spice (in addition of the CHOAM), the Spice Tribute : Every X turns, every House civ must give X spices to the Emperor. Fremen and Smugglers would be excluded from this obligation. Feedback ?

I've just finished re-reading the three books again as well.

About spice harvesting. My impression from the books was that spice fields were few and far between, and it was rarely worth revisiting them after one harvester run. This might not be that good in game turns, so I sugges that instead (and this is the fun bit), worms and carryalls are introduced to similuate it over a few turns.

You should be able to find a programmer who can make worms in a worm like manner - roaming invisible units which are drawn to vehicles/shields/non-fremen, stick to sand, and can only be seen if they are next to you. Maybe spotter aircraft could be simulated at an extra cost for a few extra squares vision (got to be careful to avoid too much micromanagement. Worm + Something worm doesn't like = No more thing.

Fremen would have the ability to call and temperaily control worms, who would have transport capacity.

As for worm movement, when roaming I'd suggest 2; when under fremen control or going for an object, 3; and when going after those nasty shields, 4.

As for sand trout...

I had the feeling that while people were trying to export sand trout/worms nobody was successful. Surely Leto would put a stop to it anyway, wanting the spice monopoly for himself. Spice = power.

IIRC the 4th book backs this up.

I had the feeling that while people were trying to export sand trout/worms nobody was successful. Surely Leto would put a stop to it anyway, wanting the spice monopoly for himself. Spice = power.

IIRC the 4th book backs this up.


It has been a while, but I think the runaways at the end of the last book successfully captured a sandworm and turned it into a bunch of sandtrout. But we're a long way from the Muadib period and I don't think this is pertinent for the mod ? Sandtrout could be a healthy and luxury resource (sugar taste, contains water).

However, good ideas about the worms. :)

Yo guys i want to start modding and woulkd love to start are tc mod for civ 4
alls i need is to learn how to use the sdk kit they realsed and ill be off

Wow, glad to see so many interested people contributing to this mod. I've been coding general python since about 5 months before Civ4 came out and have just figured out enough to do things in civ. As I've posted a few times in this thread and the other Dune thread, I love dune and think this will rock.

To this end here are some of my thoughts:

XML Stuff:
1) The water thing. In the dune time were dealing with there are no farms on dune so haveing squares produce food strikes me as wrong. An easy way to sovle this is to change the graphic and text of food to water. It will require no acual codeing just a couple small changes in xml and a new graphic icon. Futhermore, in xml, you could allow tiles to make "water" only if they have a windtrap improvement build.

2) Units and buildings. I for one think some things from the various computer games should be include. Such as infantry with that sonic weapon from the origional dune movie as a Atraties/fremen team unit and the sonic tank from Dune 2000 game as an atraties UU. I also think some of the buildings from 2000/Emporeur games should be used, such as Light and Heavey Vehicle Factories.

3) The Lansraad. With a few textual changes I think the UN stuff should be good to start with, but would require some python to make it really duneish.

Python Stuff:
1) Factions, playable and other. CHOAM, the Spacing Guild, the Bene Geserit, and possible Tethlexu and IX should not be playable civilizations, they should be off camera groups that you deal with through new interface screens, this will take a little work, but if you start with the Mercenaries Mod by TheLopez then I think much of the work will be done already. I will be looking in to this at some point, but will be a while.

2) Fremen, smuggalers, bene geserit, mentats, soothsayers, those doctors with the dimonds, the emporour. These groups don't fit as playable civs, they wouldn't have cities. They are really just groups of special units that players need access to. I would handle this one of two ways. First you could make them national units that require a specific building that requires a certain tech. And that is how I would suggest doing it at the first. But utimatly these should be bought from 'Faction Screens' alla the above point.

3) Sand Trout, Worms, Spice. The spice must flow.. At the moment I am working on solving the problem of workers not being allowed to build outside cultureal radius. As soon as I finish with that I am starting on the worm thing(prob next week some time). Like TGA said above, worms will move around invisibly and will be drawen to things that move in the desert. I am planning a promotion that none mechanized units can get(and fremen start with) that will greatly leasen you chances of attracting a worm(call it 'None Rythmic Walk' or somthing). Will also have thumpers that will draw a worm, not sure if I'm going to make them a unit that must be deployed or a button that units have if they have a certain promotion, will prob do somthing like Fall From Heavon's fireball thing. The rest is in the following spoiler just so I don't risk ruining any ones reading of the books ;)
Alright, so worms sometimes leave behind, for the lack of a better term, an "egg sack". This is refered to as a Spice Bloom or a Spice Blow. After some time this will explode, shooting spice way up into the air and it settles on the desert below. At some point, and I'm not sure of the acual mechanics of this, sand trout appear at these blooms and frolic around until they grow big enough to find some water and encapsulate it, then growing into new worms.

With that in mind, and assuming worms are in the game and doing their worm thing, randomly worms will 'plant spice bloom' then some time later this will explode and change the surronding tiles into spice feild.

Any way, those are just some ideas. Like I said I will post the first version of 'Shihalud(spelling someone?) Mod' next week some time.

Thanx to all for contributing, lets keep it up.
How do people feel about includeing House Ordos? I personally think we should, they are a very fun faction and offer lots of spy possiblities.
Other then Atraities, Harkonon, and Ordos, what are some other Houses? I can't remember any other house names, any of you that just read the books, any ideas?

Hail the Great Maker.
May his passing clense the sands.

2) Fremen, smuggalers, bene geserit, mentats, soothsayers, those doctors with the dimonds, the emporour. These groups don't fit as playable civs, they wouldn't have cities. They are really just groups of special units that players need access to. I would handle this one of two ways. First you could make them national units that require a specific building that requires a certain tech. And that is how I would suggest doing it at the first. But utimatly these should be bought from 'Faction Screens' alla the above point.

I don't agree. Fremen(s) should be a (some) civ(s). It's true they don't build open cities, but they've got their sietches. Reduce them to some sort of special units wouldn't be a good thing.
I think the Smugglers could stand their own as a Civ too. I don't think it was mentionned in the books, but you can see 4 or 5 smugglers camps in Dune 1. I think Smugglers civ could be similar. House-style tech, very few cities, no Emperor Tribute, cheaper units.
For the others : Bene Gesserit, the Spacing Guild, CHOAM (I already proposed a way to integrate them), Mentats, the Doctors and Ix, I agree. I'd like to have the Bene Tleilax as a Civ, but I can wait a later version. ;)

About the Spice cycle :

I don't think we need to integrate the real spice cycle. It adds a lot of work in Python for almost nothing. Just make the Spice randomly appears and dissappears.

'Shihalud(spelling someone)
Shai-hulud

How do people feel about includeing House Ordos? I personally think we should, they are a very fun faction and offer lots of spy possiblities.
Other then Atraities, Harkonon, and Ordos, what are some other Houses? I can't remember any other house names, any of you that just read the books, any ideas?

I have no objection for the Ordos. I don't think others Houses are named in the first books. Atreides, Harkonnen. I think there are more name in the Prequels (But I strongly advise against taking anything else from the son's books!). House Vernius for one, but it's the ruler family of Ix.
I'm currently looking in the Encyclopedia too : House Maros, House Alexin, House Rembo, House Moritani, House Ginaz, House Herzog, House Fenring (I forgot them!), House Tipnear, House Chusak, House Khumali, House Kalifi, and I think it's enough ;)

You appear to have forgotten house Corrino. I'm sure there must have been others mentioned very rarely, but I don't remember them.

Is Ginaz really a house? I seem to remember that was where Gurney/Idaho (I think it was Idaho actually) was from, but the implication didn't seem to be that it was a house.

About water:
I seem to remember all the settlements on dune were placed around the north pole (there was a map) due to the fact that they could mine water or something (not entirely sure how this fits in with later stuff).

Worms:
You could make them terratorial (because they are), so that you don't get pounced on by too many at once. Things which override this would be Fremen riders, and Shields.

As for thumpers - it seems to me this would be too much micromanagement. You could just assume that any fremen wandering on the desert attract worms. I would also dump the small chance of fremen getting eaten - I don't think it really happens.

Any plans to include atomics?

I left off House Corrino because Jeckel didn't want the Emperor as a Civ.. Something that I somewhat agree with.

Is Ginaz really a house? I seem to remember that was where Gurney/Idaho (I think it was Idaho actually) was from, but the implication didn't seem to be that it was a house.

I only listed the names found with "House" before them in the Encyclopedia. I didn't care about the timeline, so it's possible that Ginaz wasn't a (Great/Minor) House anymore during Idaho birth.

I left off House Corrino because Jeckel didn't want the Emperor as a Civ.. Something that I somewhat agree with.
Ok, missed that bit

I only listed the names found with "House" before them in the Encyclopedia. I didn't care about the timeline, so it's possible that Ginaz wasn't a (Great/Minor) House anymore during Idaho birth.Encyclopedia? Where? I presume you are referring to a Dune Encyclopedia.

Yes, I'm talking about the official (even if not 100% canon) Dune Encyclopedia released in 1984. Connery posted a link to the pdf earlier.

yo guys can we all have a chat about this on msn
mine is itiskarl@hotmail.co.uk

House Ginaz is listed as a house in the appendix for the original Dune book. In the prequels its described more as Ginaz just being the name of the planet where the famous swordmaster school is, without a real house to it. The appendix tells about how House Ginaz had a 'war of assaisins' (which is a special type of limited war, its also described in the appendix) with House Moritani. In the prequels something very similar happens to this as Ginaz is attacked by House Moritani since the swordmaster school kicked a kind from Moritani out.

I personally would very much object to including House Ordos, it is mentioned no where in the books at all, not even the prequels.



How exactly are you planning on setting up the scenario? I think that exactly following the plot of the book would be rather boring and not really be a good game of civ (the Atreides would essentially be guaranteed to lose at the start and then you would have some boring thing with a hero unit for Paul wandering around doing stuff). When I was thinking about a Dune mod earlier I came up with what I thought was a better storyline in relation to a game of Civ.

The story would start with Kaitan and Salusa Secondus being attacked with atomics by some renegade house (Kaitan is the imperial capital and Salusa Secondus is the home of the Sardakur). So after this a situation would be created where House Corrino and the Emperor survive, but are extremely weakened, about to the level of one of the higher level houses (like Atreides, Harkonnen, etc.). So anyway this would create a sort of power vacuum and all of the major powers are naturally going to try exploit it as an opprotunity to take control of Arrakis and become the new Emperor. The game could start on Arrakis right as the contenders are arriving on the planet getting ready to duke it out.

The civs I was thinking of having for this setup would be:
These ones would be essential
House Atreides
House Harkonnen
House Corrino
The Bene Tleilaxu
The Fremen (I think they should definitely be a civ)

These would be of less importance, could or could not be included
Bene Gesserit (actually they probably wouldnt make sense really, you could look at it different ways)
House Moritani
House Palpatine (they are mentionned in the back of the Dune in the appendix as being an influential house which is super rich)
House Vernius (the house that controls Ix in the prequels, they are an ally of the Atreides)
House Ecaz
House Ginaz (I would lean towards not including them as a civ and just representing as hireable mercenaries and maybe a buildable wonder)
Smugglers (I would actually lean towards them not being a civ, they weren't really that influential in any of the books)

These Civs could be included as allies of other houses
House Vernius (could be independant or just be an ally of the Atreides, could go either way)
House Richese (ally of the Harkonnen)
House San Maarten (ally of the Atreides)
I'm sure we could find more ally houses if we needed to.

Well thats all for now, let me know what you think ;)

attn: big post

I'm not sure anyone has done static leaderheads for this mod, but that is within my abilities. I have randomly aquired some pic that maybe we can discuss:


Paul

this one appears to be from the Dune CCG
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/PaulAtreides.jpg

a more familiar Paul
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/paul.jpg


Baron Harkonnen

i really like the new casting of the Baron
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Vladimirharkonnen.jpg

and the de Laurentiis Baron
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/baron.jpg


Duke Leto

is there much to discuss other that how crappy quality this picture is?
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/leto1.jpg


Stilgar

new Stilgar
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/stilgar_harr.jpg

old Stilgar
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/stilgar_lynch.jpg


Emperor Shaddam IV
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/corrino.jpg


Sorry about long post.
I hope you enjoyed looking. Tell me what you think! :D

ok guys are we acctully ggonna devop this mod

I've seen some interest from various people and, as i've said before, i'm willing to help (within my capabilities).

I think that if this mod is to be made then there needs to start being some discussion going on around here about just how that objective will be done. Post your ideas everyone! Comment on what I said above. It will only start moving if people contribute to it, not by just asking if we're going to start. Before starting to actually develop an extensive mod like this you have to have a pretty clear idea of how exactly all of the elements are going to be implemented.

@GarretSidzaka
Good job finding those pictures. I personally think that it would be good to keep them all from the same source, namely the most recent Sci-Fi channel miniseries since those are my favorite. How could you say no to those amazing blue eyes :p It would help to keep the overall feel somewhat consistent.

@GarretSidzaka
Good job finding those pictures. I personally think that it would be good to keep them all from the same source, namely the most recent Sci-Fi channel miniseries since those are my favorite. How could you say no to those amazing blue eyes :p It would help to keep the overall feel somewhat consistent.

yeah, but the new shaddam is a little feminine dont you think? and the old Leto is just too cool, i mean Das Boot man!

I have to agree that the pictures should be from the same sourse, and while I personally like the classic movie's look, their is more to choose from in the new movie. But if some is doing the editing for a leader head I will have to vote for basing Paul, his sister, Leto, the baron and his nephews(sting :p) on the old movie if possible.

Now down to some buisness..
I have to second Gunner in that we need people to post ideas, the more the better, and both story and gameplay ideas are wanted. :)

On time and setting:
I side with Supa here, as far as building the tech tree, makeing units and what not, we need to think somewhat alternate to the books story line. It seems everyone agrees that we should go with the time of the first two books. Emporeur is still in control, the atreities are just one of the houses, and the fremen are just desert nomads. If we set this generic structure up, then scenerios can be made for any specific instance from the cat attack on Pauls twins to the attack on the sheild wall.

Spice Ideas:
Following that idea, we could (python ?) add a new importance for the Spice (in addition of the CHOAM), the Spice Tribute : Every X turns, every House civ must give X spices to the Emperor. Fremen and Smugglers would be excluded from this obligation. Feedback ?

There are several different ways we can handle this and it goes to some important issues. From what i remember they still had money in the duneverse, like gold, it is very valuable, but you don't walk into barnes'n noble and put a nugget on the counter. So I think in what ever way we do spice it should be transformed at some point into the built in commerse type. We can change the graphic to somthing other then that gold coin, but it will be alot easyer if we base as much of this as possible on built in code.

In relation to the Emporeur and the tithe, we could easyly set up a trigger that has the emporer demand a tithe from the players, anyone remember the first Dune computer game, the one before Dune 2000? It had somthing like that, very cool game.

Factions:
I agree that the fremen and smugglars should be playable, a buddy of mine should be the error in my logic on that :p so we came up with the idea of Seiches(umm, again, sp?). They would be like cities, but with certain weaknesses and advantages.
The Siech could be built on mountain tiles, makeing them passable to fremen friendly units.
They would be limited in population to somthing like 6 to 8.
They would be invisible to players that haven't been into the city tile, probable some form of chance to discover them to.
Their specialists would be limited in some fashion.
Population points could leave the city and become fremen units and the units could join the cities to become pop points.
They wouldn't be able to research tech, or maybe just have their own limited tech branch.

As for the emporuer, as I've said before, I think the emporer should be an off camera faction, but I don't see a problem with including house corrinodo as a playable civ, just don't use the emporer as the leader head, use some other family member, his daughter or somthing.

Right now I am working in my JFort project and a few that off shoot from it, but in my spare time I'm looking into map scripts with the plan of makeing an all desert script. I should have somthing out by the end of the month.

As for python codeing(which will do 98% of anything we could want) I am learning new stuff every day and feel confident that given a little time I can figure out how to do just about anything we need, so unless someone else wants the job I'll offer my abiaty in the coding area. :)

Any one out there want to start on a tech tree? This is one of the most important part, but also one of the largest, so lets start small. Lets come up with 5 first row techs, what should it be called, what is the Duneish idea behind it, and what in game thing should it accomplish?

What buildings should there be for cities to build, or what should current buildings be /re/named to? Lets get some names for the buildings and then we can work out the stats and such. But implimintation will reliy on the tech tree to a degree.

Also, new traits would be appropriat, any ideas for this? I was thinking somthing to portray the harkonnon cruelty, the Atreities compation and fairness, ect.

Buttons! Anyone out there get some free time and knows how, just start grabbing stuff and makeing buttons of it. Some suggestions of things to button:
Thumper, harvester, worm, fremen man, freman women, a bene geserit mother, an ornithoptor, the mentat from the classic movie(the evil one and Gurrney), a krys knife(sp? I really need to get a dune spell checker, hehe), a close up on the blue eyes, spice on a table, the emporeur, and anything else you can think of that might be useful.
Some places to look for images:
The old 90s Dune game, Dune 2000, Emporeur: Battle for Dune
Might be able to get some screen captures to work with from these games, if that might help.


Origonally posted by Leif
Has anyone submitted government types/civics yet?

Nope, not yet, if you have any suggestions, please post them up. :)


I think that should be good to start with. GarretSidzaka, Gunner, Karl Townsend, Supa, epu, Connery, TGA, we seem to be the primary ones behind this project, please provide your opinions and incite and anything else you think we should discuss. :)

just a thought:

food = water
mony = spice

we can just change these basic facets of the game, plus replace graphic icons for them

I thought that House Vernius had gone "rogue" and the nuke used on Salusa Secundus was theirs?

And that the Tlielaxu controlled Ix at the time of the first Dune book?

If you read the "prequels", all based on notes that Frank herbert left in a safe deposit box, it explains alot of the background. Such as why Ginaz is no more, why there is little technology, etc.

Really, there should only be a few civs if you are going to be "true" to the first few books.

Main Civs
House Atreides - UU = Ornithopter
House Harkonnen - UU = Sardukaur (on loan from Emperor)
Fremen - UU = Fedaykin

Minor Civs
Spice Smugglers
Wild Fremen

Tlielaxu should be a building, Ghola Tanks - revive or clone units somehow
The Spacing Guild and Bene gesserit should also be buildings.

The problem with the original books as a mod is that there are few civs and few units. Thats why the RTS games took place in an earlier timeframe and used other Houses and technologies that never appeared in the books.

It seems to me that you only read some of the prequel books, or forgot what happened in them. Salusa Secondus got nuked long ago by a different rogue house. The Tleiaxu do not control Ix at the end of the prequels either, the entire point is that it is taken back from them.

Does anyone have any comments about how the overall setup of the game should be? I outlined one possible implementation on the last page, but no one has commented on it. I think that we really need to get a general idea of how the scenario is going to be set up before we can really start worrying too much about artwork, units, the tech tree, etc.

a fremen, harkonnen, atreidies game would be best for gameplay tactically, although sardukar should be units created with event managers every so oftern "from" the emperor as they couldnt be built on dune, they had to be trained on salusa secundus. i would have to research a little to find an appropriate harkonnen unit.

What about hero units?

i am constanly reminded of the old westwood game "dune 2" when i think about how the graphics will ultimately look.

just some ramblings...

I'll try to make a complete sumup of the discussion so far :

Setting and timeline

The consensus seems to go "Only Arrakis" and Muad'dib period (From Dune to Children of Dune).
Slightly alternate history : The Emperor didn't give Arrakis control to one House but to multiple House. He doesn't care about wars or treason as long as the Spice keeps flowing (see Emperor Tribute)
Power Vacuum The story would start with Kaitan and Salusa Secondus being attacked with atomics by some renegade house (Kaitan is the imperial capital and Salusa Secondus is the home of the Sardakur). So after this a situation would be created where House Corrino and the Emperor survive, but are extremely weakened, about to the level of one of the higher level houses (like Atreides, Harkonnen, etc.). So anyway this would create a sort of power vacuum and all of the major powers are naturally going to try exploit it as an opprotunity to take control of Arrakis and become the new Emperor. The game could start on Arrakis right as the contenders are arriving on the planet getting ready to duke it out.


Civilizations


House Atreides : Everyone agreed
House Harkonnen : Everyone agreed
Ix/House Vernius : No consensus. Could be integrated as Civ or special tech or units.
House Ordos (from Dune 2 game) : No consensus.
House Corrino : 3 propositions
Like any other Civ
They're the ruling House, they can't be used as a faction
Mix of the two. The Emperor stay out of the fight but Irulian represents House Corrino on Arrakis (with perhaps special advantages)
CHOAM : Everyone agreed > Not as a civ; more on that later.
Space Guild : Everyone agreed > Not as a civ
Fremen :
As a classic Civ (with special tech and units)
As multiple civs (with special tech and units) (with tribes agressive against Atreides too)
As special units for the Atreides
Spice Smugglers : No consensus.

I think it could be a special civ with its own tech and units and not paying the tribute (see later for that).
Special units
Bene Tleilax : No consensus.
Special tech
Special units
As a Civ
Minor Houses : House Maros, House Alexin, House Rembo, House Moritani, House Ginaz, House Herzog, House Fenring (I forgot them!), House Tipnear, House Chusak, House Khumali, House Kalifi
House Richese (ally of the Harkonnen)
House San Maarten (ally of the Atreides)
House Ginaz
Gunner said : I would lean towards not including them as a civ and just representing as hireable mercenaries and maybe a buildable wonder
House Palpatine (they are mentionned in the back of the Dune in the appendix as being an influential house which is super rich)
Bene Gesserit : Consensus seems to be : Not as a civ



Units and UUs


Sandworm
Sandworms as barbarian
Sandworms as roaming invisible units which are drawn to vehicles/shields/non-fremen, stick to sand, and can only be seen if they are next to you. Maybe spotter aircraft could be simulated at an extra cost for a few extra squares vision (got to be careful to avoid too much micromanagement. Worm + Something worm doesn't like = No more thing.
Territorial worms You could make them terratorial (because they are), so that you don't get pounced on by too many at once. Things which override this would be Fremen riders, and Shields.

Sandworms as Fremen UU

Sonic Tank (from Dune 2) for the Atreides
Atomics
Ornithopter : jefmart1 proposed them as Atreides UU. I'd rather see them available for all.
Sardaukaur : jefmart1 proposed them as Harkonnen UU. I'd rather modify that proposition so it could be a once-in-a-game possibility for the Harkonnen (like a GW effect).
Fedaykin : jefmart1 proposed them as Fremen UU.


Religions


VinnoSMC proposed to use the Dune religions (Shai Hu'lud, Orange Catholic, Buddislam, etc) as classic Civ4 religions.


Special Features


CHOAM : I proposed to integrate the CHOAM as a mean to exchange spice against Solaris.Player A uses his Harverster units (or his Harverster citizens) to "mine" spice. He gets 20 amounts of Spice in his treasure. He decides to sell them immediatly to the CHOAM (Spice treasure of the CHOAM:0). Spice is very rare and CHOAM gives Player A the full price for it (100 Solaris for each amount of spice). Now, the CHOAM has 20 spice units in its treasure. Player B has harvested 20 amounts of spice too. He decides to sell them. CHOAM has already 20 spice, so the price is only half. Player B get 50 Solaris for each spice amount. Over time, the CHOAM will sell and use the spice and its treasure will get back to 0.
Emperor Tribute : Every X turns, every House civ must give X spices to the Emperor. Fremen and Smugglers would be excluded from this obligation.
Water :
Replacing Food from classic Civ-4
Generated by special buildings (can be used with proposition 1)

Spice :

As a special resource I was thinking perhaps it couldn't be used like others resource (in your territory + road) but like this : In your territory or in neutral territory + having a harvester-type unit on it.
Depending of the "harvesting strenght" of the unit and the density of the spice field, the income would change.
As money

Lansraad : I proposed to integrate the Lansraad as a UN-like council (like in Alpha Centauri)
Money : The Solaris : Gained like in classic civ (citizens work, special buildings) + exchange spice for solaris. Spice
Complete Spice Cycle :

Integrate it like described in the book : More faithful to the books.
Don't integrate it : Too much work, random generation of spice is enough.
Fremen special features :
Sietches : Only them can build cities in hostile terrains such as rocks or moutains. Sietches would have a low population limits (6 or 8). They would be invisible to players that haven't been into the city tile, probable some form of chance to discover them to. (Difficult to integrate, isn't it ?) Population points could leave the city and become fremen units and the units could join the cities to become pop points.
Their specialists would be limited in some fashion.
They wouldn't be able to research tech, or maybe just have their own limited tech branch.

Hero Units : Proposed by Garret. I already though of a special feature like that, I'll propose it later.

Maps

Gunner made a map : North Polar Region of Dune


Sources and inspirations


Frank Herbert's books !
I'd like to stay away from the Brian's books. (Supa)
Dune Encyclopedia (Link to the pdf posted)
Dune CCG (CHOAM mechanics, artworks, units)
Dune (Cryo)
Dune 2 and Dune 2000 (Westwood)
Dune Emperor


There ! I think I listed every ideas ever proposed in this thread.

I was searching the mod directories specifically for a Dune mod when i happily came across this thread. Unfortunately, i have no coding experience or talent but i'm happy to contribute ideas.
Disclaimer - i actually liked the first three prequels - Atreides, Harkonnen, Corrino. They weren't nearly as complex and beautful and the original novels but they were good enough pop fiction that added to the universe. I tried the Butlerian Jihad and found it awful so that was all i read.

Long list of general thoughts on the last four pages. I'll start with Factions.

I like the factions people have been proposing. Personally i like to play with a lot of civs so i would like to see as many Houses in the game as we have decent information on. Particularly if we have a leaderhead for them. So, my suggestions...

Factions
House Atreides
House Harkonnen
House Vernius
House Richese
House San Maarten
House Moritani
House Palpatine
House Fenring - the Count is a great character from the prequels
House Ordos - as a homage to the Dune 2 game
Maybe more as Supa pulled a handful from the Dune Encyclopedia

Possible factions
House Corrino - not controlled by the Emperor
Bene Tleilax - but only if they could be made to be different enough to maintain their creepiness and still balanced. They are not just another House.
Freemen - maybe, but see my idea below.

Not good Factions
Bene Geserit - all factions should have access to them. Maybe limit them to one per house similar to how missionaries are limited.
Emperor - this should be the person elected by the Lansraad. Maybe make the election permanent unless that faction is destroyed?
IX - don't know what to do with them
CHAOM - off camera
Spacing Guild - off camera

Freemen - How about a World Wonder/Project (not National Wonder) that once built allows you to build Freemen units? This way only one faction can build them. The Wonder could be called something like Freemen Alliance. Prior to that Freemen could be barbarian units harrassing everyone. Even after the alliance the barb Freemen could still be active as independents.

Smugglers could be enabled with a National Wonder, like Black market port or something. It could allow specific units that could be built with money + hammers (similar to how workers are built with food + hammers).

There are several organizations that would make great units but don't really fit as buildable units as they originate off world. Ginaz swordmasters, face dancers, and ghola. I don't know how to handle this other than to have them be mercenaries as suggested. This may place too large an emphasis on wealth unless each was tied to a National Wonder and could then be built.

- feydras

I posted the last before i read your last entry Supa, i was composing it while working and people kept bugging me, curse them. Nice clean summary.

Terrain - is there a way to set the resources like water resources so that they don't need roads to hook them to a city? If not, the deep desert could be coded using tan-colored ocean but this would limit mobility for most troops.

Religion - i like VinnoSMC's religion proposals but how about adding one founded by the Muhab'dib? It seems like this differs from, but comes out of the worship of Shai Hu'lud similarly to how Christianity came out of Judaism (or numerous other examples, you get the idea).
The Muhab'dib religion (what would it be called?) could allow the building of Feydakin as long as you have that religion as your state religion. The founding of the religion could even be tied somehow to having a Bene Geserit unit or building as a preq if we wanted to get complicated. Or else just a Bene Geserit tech.

New traits for differentiating Harkonnens from Atreides would be great. Another way to do this would be to have favored civics that have good and bad effects.

In Phase 2 of the Fall from Heaven mod the creators are incorporating alignments into the game. This may be useful to represent the various houses and their leanings towards each other if we want to prebias them. For sure Harkonnen and Atreides should be set against each other if possible.

The krys knife should be a promotion, and only available to freemen.

- feydras

lets get a list of leader heads and assign colors to them. that way we can get started....

what projection map are we to use. a polar projection with Arakeen in the middle with what ice is left (like in book)?

The idea of using a wonder to enable fremen is quite a nice option.

But there could be even a beter way to make them.
Now I am speculating here as I don't know enough about moding CIV 4. Probably should look a little more closely about it.

Is there a way to make separate tech trees for different civilisations ?
If it is it could be a special tech for the Atreides civilisation. And all more advanced units would be of the fremen type. Like wehn you lear gunpowder or rifle.

BTW how many units can be bound to a certain wonder.
If it is be posible to bound say 3-4 units to one wonder whe original great wonder would be great.

Say if you are in posesion of the Kwisatz Haderach wonder would give you the freemen units, and sandworms.
If you have the Imperial palace in your posesion, the sardukars would be available. And so on.

I'm still saying that Fremen HAVE to be multiple Civs. They're the main population of Arrakis, they're numerous, they have a very important role even before the Atreides coming. I don't see why you want to restrict them as a special UU (beside Dune 2 interpretation :p).

I'm still saying that Fremen HAVE to be multiple Civs. They're the main population of Arrakis, they're numerous, they have a very important role even before the Atreides coming. I don't see why you want to restrict them as a special UU (beside Dune 2 interpretation :p).
i agree, but their numbers would be great area-wise, in that they would have many cities (aka sietch); but the majority of these should have a lower population (due to the high desert having little water) and be therefore limited.

Supa, what kind of projection are we going to use for a map, as well as what dimensions (70x60? or smaller?)

This map is one we all have in the back of the first dune book:

I'm still not used to Civ-4 dimensions (I'm still playing more Civ-3 ;)), so I can't help you with that. But I think the North Pole projection is perfect one for that project. I didn't look Gunner's map yet (I'm still not a fan of the Mapbuilder requiring to start the game), perhaps it is good enough ?

Neverless, I propose to try to make up a first testing version of the mod : A few factions (Atreides, Harkonnen, a third Great House, a few Fremen tribes), two tech tree (Great House / Fremen), trying to integrate a few special feature (Tribute, CHOAM, Spice.. We need to chose which ones we try to use now, which ones we keep for later and which one we abandon), a small map and the minimal number of units. That way, we'll get a skeleton of the mod we can test and build upon it.

To make this, I think we need to assemble a team with explicit positions and capabilities. Who can code, who can do XML, etc. Perhaps a small forum somewhere where we can start several threads.

i can do xml, like units and statistics of things, but not python. i can also basic skins

i just downloaded the map, and im going to have a look-see later today :)

I think this is a cool idea. To make it more Civ like and to have it stand the test of time you can take factions from the prequels. I think I would be interesting to start with the Machine Crusade and move to Paul’s time.

You could add the following factions to the ones you already mentioned:
Omnibus/The Machines
The Titans
Ix
Reese (sp?)

Also you can use the Swordfighter of Gand (I think that is what they were called) as Mercs.

-NetNomad

The Freemen (divided into many tribes), Tleixaxu, and Smugglers would all make good factions. I agree that to really do the mod well the Freemen need to be in there as factions. The problem i see is that they would entail a whole lot of modifications to keep them feeling flavorwise like different factions than the Houses. This will take a lot of time to create and balance. That is primarily why i suggested initially starting the mod as a war between great houses with the others as Wonders, units, and such. Then once that framework is setup we could add in the Freemen with attention to small seitches, different tech tree, pretty much all unique units, etc... I'd hate to see the Freemen building infantry, making deals with CHAOM and Lansraad, and developing the land just like the great houses. It reminds me of Fantasy mods where you have minotaurs or elves or merfolk but they all play with the same units and buildings. (Not meant to be a hit against Fall from Heaven, i love the mod).

After the Freemen are added into the basic great houses game we could consider the Tleixaxu and Smugglers as well as the IX and debate if we wanted to work them in similarly. I do agree the Freemen are necessary as factions, i just want to see them preserved as special and i'd really like to get a playable/testable version of this out sooner rather than later.

- feydras

I understand what you mean, Feydras, I think the same way about Smugglers, Bene Tleilax and others. But I think the Fremen is such important part of Dune that it should be included from the start.

Netnomad, I think the Muad'dib period is rich enough without adding anything from the Butlerian jihad.. Especially the son version of the Butlerian jihad (was he hoping to make his own version of Terminator ?).

I understand what you mean, Feydras, I think the same way about Smugglers, Bene Tleilax and others. But I think the Fremen is such important part of Dune that it should be included from the start.

Netnomad, I think the Muad'dib period is rich enough without adding anything from the Butlerian jihad.. Especially the son version of the Butlerian jihad (was he hoping to make his own version of Terminator ?).

i agree. we should keep it reasonably simple with factions, because we are only doing one planet (for now). i think 3-4 major playable factions and as many minor nations (unplayable) as we need.

about the bene tleilax, we could allow them as named wonders and improvements, as well as bonus units, but not a physical presence on arrakis. Did they control regions or even cities? but their influence was felt all over arrakis.

I can see the problem of Fremen being only a unit set.

What about making transforming Barbarians into Fremens. If your house succeds to make a national wonder that would befriend the fremen you could get their tech and units. Mabye if posible by the engine become invurnable to barbarian atacks but would acuire them as your own unit instead.

The reason why I am proposing this is that by the book Atreides and Fremen got in a tight bond where in the end of the first book and after they were esentialy the same civilisation.
Esentialy Fremen were absorbed in the atreides family mixing both civilisations backgrounds into one.

Let me first say, nice summery Supa. Let me address a coupld points though.

1) The spice cycle.
Adding in a little bit of the cycle isn't that much work. In the mapscript you are codeing where the spice resource is to appear, like any other resourse. Then, assuming we use the idea of spice resourses having a limited number of spice to mine that means the individual spice bonuses can run out, so we need some way to put new spice bonuses on the map ingame. Also assuming we have a worm unit, I don't see it being much more then a page of python to have worms spawn spice bonuses under certain conditions. Working in the sandtrout part would be a little more work, in that you would need a Sand Trout bonus and a page or two more code, but I can agree that we need not go as far as the sandtrout part, but the worm creates spice is easy enough. :)[SPOILER]

2) Fremen Sietches. As far as makeing cities invisible until a unit enters that square. I am thinking this could be done much like TheLopez makes his snipers invisible in the Sniper Mod. Now I am assuming there are methods to control city graphics like you can units, but even if there arn't stock methods for it I'm sure I can come up with something.


That said, I must agree we need to get a basic version or the scenario up and running. Towards that goal:

1) Factions. Atreides and Harkonnen. These two houses were agreed before anyone asked the question, so lets start with these two.
[SPOILER]Atreides
Leaders: Paul, Leto(Pauls dad) umm, don't know about leaderheads for these guys, none of them jump out at me as the choice.
Color: a blue or green
Traits: Expansionist(the extra health one) and Philisophical(more great people one)

Harkonnon
Leaders: The Baron
Leaderhead: Bismark
Color: a dark or bright red
Traits: Aggressive and.. expansionist(the less maintanince one) maybe

2) Factions. Fremen. I like the idea of multiple fremen civs, to many games have put them in the backseat. But lets start with just one fremen faction and get their stuff done, then we can add in others pretty easyly.
Fremen
Leaders: Stilgar and Leit kyn(Chani's dad, the empererial egologist)
Leaderheads: Stilgar could be any leaderhead with a beard really and Leit I don't know about its just an idea that pop in just now.
Color: a sandy brown or tan.
Traits: Expansionist and either finantial or aggresive maybe.

3) Map. I say we use the one posted in this thread for now, unless someone wants to make a new one. Like I said, I am learning the mapscripting, but its going to be a few weeks before I get the DuneScript up and running.

4) Map. Who is acually going to be making the Scenario, ie useing the WB to place the cities and what not? Anyone want to volinter?

i can handle that, i just need a list of city and sietch names that we want to use, as well as affiliations with fremen/houses. as soon as we get who will be playable civs and thier leaders (like will paul or leto be leader of atredies?) i can start ploting this map with cities.

Good starting suggestions Jeckel. Here are mine along with some thoughts on why..

Atreides leader traits - Philosophical is an excellent choice.
Leto - Philosophical and Creative
Paul - Philosophical and Spiritual

Harkonnen leader traits - The trait that decreases maintanence costs is Organized, a good choice, but i chose others. The Industrious trait can be used to reflect the significant resources of the house as well as the way they drive their workers hard.
Baron Vladimir - Financial and Industrious
Feyd-Rautha - Aggressive and Industrious

Freemen leader traits - As much as it fits themetically, i'm not sure Expansionist would be a good trait for the Freemen as it adds +2 health to each city. The main effect of this is to allow bigger cities/seitches which we may not want.
Aggressive is a good trait for them as it grants each melee unit the +10% str promo simulating their natural toughness. Organized might also be a good fit. I know it sounds funny, but it would mitigate the maintanence costs that may be high as a result of having their seitches scattered far and wide.
Stilgar - Aggressive and Organized
Liet Kynes - Aggressive and Spiritual or Creative

As you can see i'm a fan of choosing one trait that both leaders share as a way to define the faction and the other to individualize the leader's effect on the faction.

In choosing leader traits it is important to look at the effects they generate to make sure they match the theme of the factions. The effects will have a stronger impression on how the civ feels to play then the name of the trait which can be misleading. Leader personality and starting techs (when we get there) are other places we can tweak civ play style.

- feydras

Do we want Paul to be a leader for Atreides or do we save him to predestine him to be Muah'dib? It would be nice to see some good female leaders, are there any that would fit? I definitely think the Bene Geserit should not be their own faction.

- feydras

Good starting suggestions Jeckel. Here are mine along with some thoughts on why..

Atreides leader traits - Philosophical is an excellent choice.
Leto - Philosophical and Creative
Paul - Philosophical and Spiritual

Harkonnen leader traits - The trait that decreases maintanence costs is Organized, a good choice, but i chose others. The Industrious trait can be used to reflect the significant resources of the house as well as the way they drive their workers hard.
Baron Vladimir - Financial and Industrious
Feyd-Rautha - Aggressive and Industrious

Freemen leader traits - As much as it fits themetically, i'm not sure Expansionist would be a good trait for the Freemen as it adds +2 health to each city. The main effect of this is to allow bigger cities/seitches which we may not want.
Aggressive is a good trait for them as it grants each melee unit the +10% str promo simulating their natural toughness. Organized might also be a good fit. I know it sounds funny, but it would mitigate the maintanence costs that may be high as a result of having their seitches scattered far and wide.
Stilgar - Aggressive and Organized
Liet Kynes - Aggressive and Spiritual or Creative

As you can see i'm a fan of choosing one trait that both leaders share as a way to define the faction and the other to individualize the leader's effect on the faction.

In choosing leader traits it is important to look at the effects they generate to make sure they match the theme of the factions. The effects will have a stronger impression on how the civ feels to play then the name of the trait which can be misleading. Leader personality and starting techs (when we get there) are other places we can tweak civ play style.

- feydras

i like where you are going here. what i was thinking about earlier was to start on the terrain. maybe i will do that today. we also need to reskin a resource to be spice. i am thinking about reskinning oil? wheat? what resource would look good painted red as spice melange.

This are preliminary textures. I did them quick and dirty.


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Civ4ScreenShot00024.JPG



http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Civ4ScreenShot00009.JPG




what do you think?

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Dune_Terrain.zip
Dune_Terrain.zip 4 mb

I don't see why you have to be tied down to the default traits, but if you want to keep it like this then remember to take into account the new ones coming with Warlords - Protective, Charismatic and Imperialistic.

What exactly is wrong with the map I made? Just wondering, because I might be able to change it if there are any requests. I was very meticulous with following the real dune map, there really shouldn't be any problems with it relating to accuracy.

TGA bring up two good points,
1) we should keep Warlors in mind(I drool just thinking what 'Vassel States' could imply), and
2) Adding new traits is no harder then adding units, techs, or anything else, so if anyone has any ideas for more appropriate traits we can start toying around with those ideas.
But, to keep us on point, for now lets stick manly with getting a rough version up with current vanilla Civ.

GarretSidzaka,
Good job on the textures. :D I love the new peaks, very dunesk, the polar ice will be good to(I didn't like the idea of vanilla ice feature all stuck around the pole ;)). Could you maybe get a little more green out of those grasslands? I think we should go for as little green as possible on the map.
As for the the bonuses, the sand trout made my day, I can just picture little fremen children chasing them around the night sand, very cool. fThe oil was also a good choice and will make a perfect spice blow. :)

Some suggestions for new terrain:
A white desert terrain to be the deep desert where shai-halud, may his passing clense the earth, spends most of its time.
If you could retexture the stone bonus, make it look more like your mountains, then we could put that on various terrain to represent rock outcroppings. Don't know if that is the best way to do it, but anyway if can be done would be good with me.
And, lastly, I think we need some sort of 'rock platue' terrain, which will be the main tile for cities and will be immune to worms. :D

feydras,
I give my consent to the atreidies and fremen trait choices(Aggressive/creative for Fremen Liet Kynes).
As for the Harkkonon, I hesitate to give them aggresive. They will have some of the more powerful military units and shouldn't need anymore bonuses in that department.
How about Organized instead of Agressive?

If no one else gets around to it first, I'll post some city and sietch names later tonight.

thanks

@gunner
when i posted that stuff, i hadn't seen your map, so i do not feel like doing work that you've already contributed :)

@ great apple
i agree with you also. warlords throws a whole new perspective on this project. btw im happy your on this one with us coz you got mad skills! :goodjob:

Good starting suggestions Jeckel. Here are mine along with some thoughts on why..

Atreides leader traits - Philosophical is an excellent choice.
Leto - Philosophical and Creative
Paul - Philosophical and Spiritual

Harkonnen leader traits - The trait that decreases maintanence costs is Organized, a good choice, but i chose others. The Industrious trait can be used to reflect the significant resources of the house as well as the way they drive their workers hard.
Baron Vladimir - Financial and Industrious
Feyd-Rautha - Aggressive and Industrious

Freemen leader traits - As much as it fits themetically, i'm not sure Expansionist would be a good trait for the Freemen as it adds +2 health to each city. The main effect of this is to allow bigger cities/seitches which we may not want.
Aggressive is a good trait for them as it grants each melee unit the +10% str promo simulating their natural toughness. Organized might also be a good fit. I know it sounds funny, but it would mitigate the maintanence costs that may be high as a result of having their seitches scattered far and wide.
Stilgar - Aggressive and Organized
Liet Kynes - Aggressive and Spiritual or Creative

As you can see i'm a fan of choosing one trait that both leaders share as a way to define the faction and the other to individualize the leader's effect on the faction.

In choosing leader traits it is important to look at the effects they generate to make sure they match the theme of the factions. The effects will have a stronger impression on how the civ feels to play then the name of the trait which can be misleading. Leader personality and starting techs (when we get there) are other places we can tweak civ play style.

- feydras

I like your ideas alot.
And maybe I have come up with an idea for the problem of wanting to ty the fremen with a second civilisation

What if the civilisation that makes the wonder of Kwisatz Haderach gets in a permanent aliance with the Fremen.
No one else can get in aliance with the fremen. At best they can aquire a cease fire situation.

What do you think about this.

It would make sense ase fremen aren't friend with no other civilisation.

Man, I've been trying to get some seitch names, but all I can find is this link that supa posted on the second page of this thread:

Dune Seitch names from Cryo game (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=2888671&postcount=44)

But, as is stated in that post, these names are quite repetative. I've been trying to download that Dune Encyclopedia, but the 10 mb size kills my dialup connection. I'm going to stop by a buddies later today and use his broadband to download it. :)

give me a link for the dune encylcopedia. that will download in seconds for me.

What if the civilisation that makes the wonder of Kwisatz Haderach gets in a permanent aliance with the Fremen.
No one else can get in aliance with the fremen. At best they can aquire a cease fire situation.

What do you think about this.


I don't like it. If the KH have to be a GW (not sold on that idea either), it should give a limited bonus toward the fremen (+ X toward good relationship).

About the Sietch names, I think it's not a priority. That's polishing.

The link to the Encyclopedia is in the first page btw. :p

An additionnal Harkonnen Leader could be Beast Rabban.

good idea. beast rabban is an excellent choice for the alternate. ill try to get a good pic soon.

GarretSidzaka - the terrains look very nice. I like the use of oil for undeveloped spice. Will it look okay when drilled? If not is it possible to use a different resource graphic for developed and undeveloped?
For the sand trout resource we should make it a late discovery for the houses and an early one for the Freemen. Of course, we'd want the Freemen to be loathe to trade it but they would probably be loathe to trade most things. That can be set can't it? Just make them like Monty or Washington in that regard.

The Great Apple - i wasn't aware they released the names of the new traits. Can you link me to the expansion pack update?

Jeckel - good point about the Harkonen and the Aggressive trait. Organized is a fine substitution.
I don't like the idea of naming the House cities after planets but i don't have any better idea.

I'd most like to see the Kwisatz Haderach as one of the religions as we have only a few. We could make it more valuable than the other ones. I like Magecu's idea of making the Freemen ally with the faction that develops it but agree with Supa that that is probably too much. How about a relations boost with the Freemen to any faction that adopts the religion as it's state religion? Also, can we make the Freemen favor that religion and seek it? This may not work as they may not have access to it. We could put it sooner on their tech tree. I realize Paul came from the Atreides but he was Freemen when he became the Kwisatz Haderach.

Supa - In place of the Kwisatz Haderach as a GW or a religion do you have any other ideas? Neither feels quite right to me.

- feydras

The Great Apple - i wasn't aware they released the names of the new traits. Can you link me to the expansion pack update?
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=170572

orange catholicism and buddhislam are the religions that come to mind. fremen would have both, but buddhislam would be state.

I’d like to enlist to help you people if it’s not too late.
I know Java and html (note much user here) but I’m going to learn python and xml soon.
Been playing civ since civ 2, I’ve played around with the moding tools but never made much.
I’ve read all of the dune books (original series plus prequel trilogy and jihad trilogy).
I have some ideas:
Ideas version (if we ever get this far)
Model the whole dune universe from beginning of Guild monopoly/when most groups/factions just developed to chapterhouse dune. Firstly this will truly recreate the whole dune universe and make it as big as original civ4 itself and secondly you have a much wider time frame with a lot more developments technology wise.
I know it’s not something being done now but I think it’s something we should keep in the back of our mind.

More realistic version
Have the thing start some time before original dune. This will make more since cuz you can develop/research all those dune units. We can take unit ideas from original dune and "downgrade" them into an older unit. So for example you will first research a very primitive spice collector unit that will later upgrade. If the scenario is set in the original dune to dune messiah timeframe then there is very little room for technology tree (only like 3 generations). I mean you can certainly pus some stuff in but a longer time frame is more fun.

Does anyone have a basic techtree already?
If not, I’ll try to develop one these couple of days. Just something simple to start from. Are we going to have a separate techtree for some factions? Ie: fremen techtree, Atreides techtree, Harkonnen techtree, etc... Or have some faction specific techs and some techs everybody can research?
Is it possible to make 2 100% totally different techtrees for 2 civs so when you play as civ a you won’t see any of the techs for civ b and vies versa?

Another idea springs to mind: have house Ix as an interface from which you can buy techs. Or pay them to research something in particular. Or you could get a big research bonus if you are friends with house Ix.

@pavelthesecond
Glad to have you on board. :) No we don't have anything on the tech tree yet. Yes you can have totally different tech trees for different Civilizations, but the other civs will be able to see techs for their rivals, just can't research them. If you want to get started on the tech tree that would be great, post up any ideas you have and we can go from there. :) And I like your idea an IX interface where you can by techs. Maybe make so you can "rent" techs for a number of turns based on how much you pay, when your time is up you lose the tech. And maybe an option to rent a form of Scientist Speacialist from them aswell. I think this idea will fit in nicely with the idea of CHOAM and the Guild as Mercenary Mod type interface screens.


Some general stuff:
I am going to be swamped this week, but will check in when I can. I got a buddy of mine started on the python code for the worms, should have a basic version available in a week or two.

Here is a tech tree version 0.01. I went through the dune appendixes and some random pages of dune encyclopaedia to get ideas. Note that I didn't put any space travel related stuff because the thing is set on dune only.
21 techs so far!:D
Any feedback/ideas?

:cry: :bump:

@pavel
I dled that file and it just came out jibberish in my notepad, do I need to rename it or somthing?

@pavel
I dled that file and it just came out jibberish in my notepad, do I need to rename it or somthing?

its a MS excell file. - *.xls

Ive spent the last few weeks contemplating what would constitute a good Dune TC for Civ 4, and now I have stumbled across this thread. A lot of the problems I have envisaged have been discussed here, and I am amazed at how similar everybodys line of thinking is! One major point of contention seems to be whether or not to allow the Fremen as a playable civ. I always imagined they would be aggressive nonplayable civs split into the various factions, incabable of tech research but with their own uniqe techs for trade with houses. EXAMPLE- You manage to negotiate a ceasefire with tribe-x, and after some time they are willing to trade their unique tech with you. Although the units may not be controlled, their allegience to your house would prove invaluble against wandering enemy units. You could engage in diplomacy with the factions, though never fully control them. This way the houses could build powerful alliances without haveing to directly intervene (Similar to proposed Vassal States in Warlords). I agree that Ix, CHOAM etc. should be interface screens and special buildings. Other buildings should include light/heavy vehicle factories, standard/advanced barracks and so on. Other constructions could improve tile yield (such as spice and water). Water should replace food and spice should replace oil. As far as graphix are concerned, I would be willing to create some illustraded leader heads rather than using photographs from the movie, as it would be more in keeping with the aesthetics of Civ 4. All in all, this could be a great mod. Sorry if ive mentioned things that have already been discussed, but finding this thread has given me a renewed vigour to see this happen!

reminds me of the oil mod someone had suggested to me a while ago. sounds good....now who can program it.

I would just like to put my opinions across on a few issues:

Transport
I feel that all transport of troops/vehicles should be undertaken by carry-all craft, as it would be the only logical way to move units when the terrain is so hostile.
Spice
I imagine that this would be similar to any resource, where a worker unit (harvester) can be deployed onto the tile. Exhaustable spice would require that the worker be re-useable. This means that workers could be temporarily moved when a worm/hostile native is in the vicinity.
Armour
I cannot recall much regarding heavy tanks in the books I have read (its been a while). One source we do have is the westwood game, although this can descend into arguments about what is canon and what isnt. One unit I would love to see would be the Devastator tank. It could have the ability to cause collalteral damage, bombard, and carry at least one ornithopter for recon(almost like a desert version of an aircraft carrier). Although this seems overpowered, the unit cost could reflect this. I never could get over the idea of a nuclear powered tank!
Unique units
In my previous post i mentioned unique techs for some civs. A non playable tribe with a unique resource would be a better way to describe what I meant. For example, a fremen tribe may provide fremen warriors instead of horses. This is not a resource that can be tapped with a worker on the tile, and can never be fully controlled, only traded.
Guilds/Organisations
Someone previously mentioned that techs could be rented from non-playable orgs such as Ix and CHOAM etc. This is a great idea, for it means that a player could concentrate on their economy and make up for the tech shortfall via diplomacy.
Tile improvments
Apart from the obvious, Im not sure roads would be required, as units would be designed to travel in the dune enviroment as it is. Perhaps a playable fremen race could eventually research ecology and add some greenery to their surrounding tiles (with obvious bonus). This could go hand in hand with a new civic, which causes problems for other races, similar to emancipation.
Cities
The cities should not be as numerous as those from civ 4. It would be better if a city can control a larger area than standard. This leaves more room for possible strategic tile improvments (such as forts, or even airbases). I wouldnt want it to look like my average game of civ with loads of cities just for the territorial factor.
Leaders
Ive already began designing some concepts for the leaders. I will scan in the drawn images and ink them in photoshop, then post them here. Although this is a later consideration, Im doing little else except working and playin civ 4 ( and avoiding the world cup), so I might as well.

I feel the most important thing would be to get the basic game up and running. The last thing to develop (IMO) should be scenario based campaigns, which would be much easier to create once the basic framework is in place.

I feel the most important thing would be to get the basic game up and running. The last thing to develop (IMO) should be scenario based campaigns, which would be much easier to create once the basic framework is in place.

I would love to play a Dune mod, but have very meager knowledge of the Canon material, either games or books.

However, there's some kinda obvious points from what little I have encountered from the movies and early Dune games I played...

#1. Diplomacy should play a major part.

I'm not talking about the major factions either. I'm talking about the endless supply of major and minor players that WOULDNT be vying for dominance on Dune. These could be broken up into several varieties.

A) World Wonders ~ for the strongest factions that only support one side in the struggle. these could provide resources, access to special units, or anything else you can dream of. In a scenario most world wonders would be preassigned... and a faction that is faring badly in the struggle and loses the city would find that their diplomatic allies have also changed sides... somewhat appropriate, I think.

B) National Wonders ~ represent strong factions that may make agreements with all sides of the conflict... or lesser factions that may be willing to sell their services (represented both in the initial cost of the wonder and the cost of building the units). Multiple wonders could be applied for the same faction, such as having Trade, Diplomatic, and Military pacts which would provide varying boons. Trade could give 1-2 resources that may be scarce or non-existant on a given planet. Diplomatic could give double build speed to various wonders and military could give access to techs or units otherwise unavailable.

C) Lesser Vying factions ~ I really think we'll have to wait for the expansion to see how Fremen and the minor houses could be done more appropriately.

#2 Desert ~ Song of the Moon is immediately brought to mind. The dust seas would be quite workable for sandworms, etc. I also think it might serve Dune well to make travel EXTREMELY difficult and restrict heavy/organized units to only 1 mp in "civilized" squares and inable to pass over sand, etc... while light/irregular troops (like fremen) would have 1 mp in civilized, uncivilized, and sand squares. This (I think) would make air transports mandatory for capturing rival cities, as well as making missile and air combat more critical in general, which would help promote a "technically advanced" feel to the game.

However, I am also aware that things should be devised with future potential in mind... so it would be nice if the changes to make an "inhospitable" Arrakis were more terrain dependant then they were altering the game. (ie... use the Arrakis map or map generator, and you get a lot of sand and hard-to-manuever territories... use a different map generator, and you get a different type of battle entirely... different generators and prefabs for different planets/styles).

I also think the initial mod should be narrow in scope. Focus on a war scenario between Harrkonen/Atreides perhaps, and the differences between those factions. Once that scenario is complete, the pieces can be used to expand it to include more factions and scenarios.

I am quite interested in this mod, i havent actually read the books, all of my knowledge of it comes from the westwood game (wich i know is mostly rubbish and based upon the highly innaccurate film) and the mad ravings of my dad about the series lol.

I am aware that at one point guns are rendered obsolete by personal forcefields that everyone starts to have, any ideas on how to implement this?

Oh and fremen getting a speed boost by risking riding the sandworms is a must lol

Great to see some people back in this thread. I think that our two major needs for the dune mod are:
1. 3D modelers
2. dedicated SDK/python modders

I think this can go somewhere, unfortunately, I am a mod creator, not either of the above :cry:


btw: Magi, read the books, you wont be dissapointed (i know dads can sometimes overdo things ;) )

Oh and has anyone any idea where the heck 'house ordos' come from? Did westwood make em up or did they appear somewhere in the books?

Oh and has anyone any idea where the heck 'house ordos' come from? Did westwood make em up or did they appear somewhere in the books?

I think House Ordos is the one that was invented for the Dune PC games. They aren't mentioned in the books at all as far as I know.

yeah i had always wondered about that. i have read the entire series.

I thought up a victory condition, "worm extermination"
end the flow of spice and then what? NO More Dune Universe. Would have to be a hard goal maybe through greening up the planet etc. Hey i didnt read the books just saw the movies. So call it a shot in the dark ;)

PS: There are enough people interested to have their own forum, sure would make the ideas flow more freely.

PPS: Besides 3d models and coders, this is going to need a good writer to make it authentic.

Nice, if all worms die, then everyone losses. But if someone has the God Emporer wonder, then they are the winner. Kinda give people a chance to play out the story of Leto becomeing the God Emporer and rulling the known universe. Good idea. :)

i would love to help write this mod and arrange it. but i cant model or do C++. :(

I saw this thread a while ago and I like the idea. Personaly I have read all the "original" books (I.E. those written by Frank Herbert, read them and you will not only get great science fiction, but also philosophy).

Any way, I have an idea about how to do production. In essence, only Fremen can "make" things, only they get hammers. All other factions have to buy their units, while the fremen can't hurry any of their production. I therefore propose this: For all non-fremen civs: Economic victory, monopolize spice and you have won. For the fremen: they whish to have a water world, so instead of culture, they generate water. The more water a civilization has, the more it can extend it's influence.

Hello all some thoughts on the dune mod.... which according to post dates seems to have died :mad:

Would it be possible to have IX, Benne Gesserits, Bene Tleilax etc as a seperate tech tree.... only one faction can start to research up a single tree making for a more interesting game

Production, would it be possible to have Freeman produce using standard civ system and the rest buy stuff using profits gleaned from spice? perhaps just have a screen to buy units like the lopez has made :lol:

CHOAM should be the only faction to buy spice thus generating money for players

House Corrino all players should have to pay spice every X amount of turns otherwise based on relations houses should be forced to declare war on you for X amount of turns

Spacing guild transport?

Spice Smugglers should be a playable faction right at the edge of the desert and in line the books the only faction able to buy spice of the freman and not paying tribute

Pretty much what Supa said looking back.... :eek:

Will be more than happy to offer my help...

and last but not least use a system like Rhye used for his game...

yeah, im pretty sad about the death of this mod as well, being possibly the only contributor of any graphics. :cry:

Production, would it be possible to have Freeman produce using standard civ system and the rest buy stuff using profits gleaned from spice?

Another idea: the noble houses get support from their home worlds from time to time. So they have a certain chance of getting new units, buildings, whatever every turn.

What if for the units and buildings, some work was done taking them from different things. Eg. I liked the Devastor out of Dune 2 and 2000 as a tank type unit, but the infantry now looks better especially the Sardraukas (unsure correct selling) in Emperor: Battle For Dune. Also the Sonic Tanks look much better now. I think you are failing to realise that technology advances. I think ultimately it would be good to have a variety of units taking the best from Dune 2 to 2000 and trying to model them. I think though that it would be best to look at Dune 2000 or Emperor: Battle For Dune for ideas on how to model the units as those units are so much better quality at a time when computers could handle that quality.

Made a DUNE map get it at:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=182772

Post # 2, item 21.

cool, checking it out now.

that's a real nice caladan. lots of resources too; a lush planet:

(by strategyonly)
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads/dune%2055x45.screenshot.1_qV7.jpg

What if for the units and buildings, some work was done taking them from different things. Eg. I liked the Devastor out of Dune 2 and 2000 as a tank type unit, but the infantry now looks better especially the Sardraukas (unsure correct selling) in Emperor: Battle For Dune. Also the Sonic Tanks look much better now. I think you are failing to realise that technology advances. I think ultimately it would be good to have a variety of units taking the best from Dune 2 to 2000 and trying to model them. I think though that it would be best to look at Dune 2000 or Emperor: Battle For Dune for ideas on how to model the units as those units are so much better quality at a time when computers could handle that quality.

Yeah, Dune 2000 was awesome.:) *lost in memories*

btw: How much stuff is allready done for that mod?

Not enough. I have done a couple textures and there is a map or two. there is a bunch of ideas on the thread too

Not enough. I have done a couple textures and there is a map or two. there is a bunch of ideas on the thread too

I'll contribute a building or two;)

All I suggest is that the units in Emperor: Battle For Dune be used for the infantry as they are the best things we have of what was intended for the infantry, etc. Also I think that it needs to be looked at how to make turrets that will function like in Dune II but we don't exactly want to totally clone that game do we?

im gonna put in a unit request for fremen

I'd like to see this project really pan out, although I am not (currently) able to offer much aid, I would be happy to help with concept ideas and beta testing.

I would too. As I said the best thing to do would be to consider which are the best images of the vehicles you want to include in the mod. I really do wish you the best of luck with getting this mod up and running.

So, here is the building: http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=2956 the Imperial Palace.

The next time I'm occupied with stuff for another universe, but I hope you'll have some fun with the palace.;)

very nice, chamaedrys!

it looks astounding and will find a great home here!!!!
thanks
:goodjob:

That is perfect Chamaedrys. :goodjob:

Got any plans for another Dune building?
A seitch or a windtrap would be awesome. :)

That is perfect Chamaedrys. :goodjob:

Got any plans for another Dune building?
A seitch or a windtrap would be awesome. :)

Yeah, I love Dune and will make some more buildings. ;)

i think is going to end up an excellent community project.

Indeed, I think it will too. By the way as said, the infantry in Dune 2000 and Emperor: Battle For Dune are done in a better way than in Dune II so they might be a good plan to get the ideas for our infantry, Sarduker and flametank skins.

Indeed, I think it will too. By the way as said, the infantry in Dune 2000 and Emperor: Battle For Dune are done in a better way than in Dune II so they might be a good plan to get the ideas for our infantry, Sarduker and flametank skins.
I agree with this, but I think we should remove ourselves from the dissonance which Emperor brought against the books.. ;) But I am VERY much looking forward to this, and although as I said I am not entirely yet a modder myself I am diving into it and will help this project in whatever way I can. :goodjob:

we need 3d unit modelers! CHALLENGE: sand worm

That is perfect Chamaedrys. :goodjob:

Got any plans for another Dune building?
A seitch or a windtrap would be awesome. :)
I agree, great job.

But I was thinking on this and I had a thought: shouldnt windtraps be terrain improvements instead of buildings? This is what I thought: if water was a basic resource (hammer, food, commerce) then the windtraps could either produce water or improve more from tiles. If we still wanted a building, we could make a building called the "water reclaimation center" or "water storage warehouse" or something and have the building give 25% or 50% more water resource to that city.

I dont know if this goes against what you were planning, but it was a thought that I wanted to get out. Kill it or embrace it at your will. :D

I agree, great job.

But I was thinking on this and I had a thought: shouldnt windtraps be terrain improvements instead of buildings? This is what I thought: if water was a basic resource (hammer, food, commerce) then the windtraps could either produce water or improve more from tiles. If we still wanted a building, we could make a building called the "water reclaimation center" or "water storage warehouse" or something and have the building give 25% or 50% more water resource to that city.

I dont know if this goes against what you were planning, but it was a thought that I wanted to get out. Kill it or embrace it at your will. :D

i totally agree, and we can change the resource icons to Water, Spice, and energy or somthing

i totally agree, and we can change the resource icons to Water, Spice, and energy or somthing

Exactly. If it doesnt step on anyone's (or anything's) toes too much, we could make Food=Water, Commerce=Spice and Hammers=Production. I think it would take /a lot/ of coding and changing a ton of aspects of the game, but I think that Dune is worth every bit. :D

This would mean improvements would be:
Windtrap improvements for Water reclaimation
Harvesting operations for Spice collection
Factory-centers for production boosts (IIRC Arrakis has very few minable resources mines would be only in rare cases of discovered ore)
+ any other sorts of improvements or devices which can be added to this sort of design.

I am not sure how this would effect the game, or if its what we are looking for, but it certainly seems reasonable if we are going to be putting together a good Dune Mod.

:goodjob:

Exactly. If it doesnt step on anyone's (or anything's) toes too much, we could make Food=Water, Commerce=Spice and Hammers=Production. I think it would take /a lot/ of coding and changing a ton of aspects of the game, but I think that Dune is worth every bit. :D

This would mean improvements would be:
Windtrap improvements for Water reclaimation
Harvesting operations for Spice collection
Factory-centers for production boosts (IIRC Arrakis has very few minable resources mines would be only in rare cases of discovered ore)
+ any other sorts of improvements or devices which can be added to this sort of design.

I am not sure how this would effect the game, or if its what we are looking for, but it certainly seems reasonable if we are going to be putting together a good Dune Mod.

:goodjob:

real production is only for the fremen, all others can import their stuff from other planets. Maybe the fremen get hammers and food from rock tiles, but cannot hurry the production. The smugglers and the noble houses just get hammers from their specialist (maybe mechanics for the harvesters), but they can hurry the production with money.

Exactly. If it doesnt step on anyone's (or anything's) toes too much, we could make Food=Water, Commerce=Spice and Hammers=Production. I think it would take /a lot/ of coding and changing a ton of aspects of the game, but I think that Dune is worth every bit. :D ...


I think production could just be energy. as the universe is 40,000 years ahead of our own, they probably are more concerned with generating enough energy to create things.

and this would be fairly easy: just change the TXT reference xml's and the FONTS.tga to have different pictures; as well as buttons, city interface icons, and game texts.


real production is only for the fremen, all others can import their stuff from other planets. Maybe the fremen get hammers and food from rock tiles, but cannot hurry the production. The smugglers and the noble houses just get hammers from their specialist (maybe mechanics for the harvesters), but they can hurry the production with money.


i agree, but i would be difficult to add a difference between energy and hammer, to both have them at same time (although there is a mod for this)
so we should choose what name to have for all :hammers: production .

i agree, but i would be difficult to add a difference between energy and hammer, to both have them at same time (although there is a mod for this)
so we should choose what name to have for all :hammers: production .

OK, but only the foreigners should be able to "buy" things. This would be balanced if the fremen get more hammers (or energy) from rocks.

that makes sense

the wind trap is ready :) http://forums.civfanatics.com/./downloads.php?do=file&id=2984

it looks really nice!

Very great, I just love it. :)

I got a little free time last night and I whipped up some Dune buttons.

Here is the link to the xip file (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/70323/DuneButtons.zip).

If anyone has any dune pics the want made into buttons let me know. :)

:goodjob: good work!

I think production could just be energy. as the universe is 40,000 years ahead of our own, they probably are more concerned with generating enough energy to create things.

and this would be fairly easy: just change the TXT reference xml's and the FONTS.tga to have different pictures; as well as buttons, city interface icons, and game texts.

Ah, good point there. Very well, the basic idea remains the same. :D

Great wind trap Chamaedrys, looking to see this unfold, wish I could help more directly but I have been quite busy (darn classwork). I'll try to continue to contribute what I can however. :)

Ah, good point there. Very well, the basic idea remains the same. :D

Great wind trap Chamaedrys, looking to see this unfold, wish I could help more directly but I have been quite busy (darn classwork). I'll try to continue to contribute what I can however. :)

we could use the windtrap as the model for the tiny cottage that represents the region "being worked"

or perhaps we could make a spicecrawler for that?

shouldn't their be two diffrent artreides one messiah artreides and one house artriedes. with fishspeakers as uu for messiah and something for house. mabye have duke leto and jessica leaders of house and Paul Maud'dib and Leto II be leaders of Messiah.

shouldn't their be two diffrent artreides one messiah artreides and one house artriedes. with fishspeakers as uu for messiah and something for house. mabye have duke leto and jessica leaders of house and Paul Maud'dib and Leto II be leaders of Messiah.
If that was the case, then wouldnt we have to start making different houses for everyone? Heres a simple solution (one built into the game already) House Atreides will be a civ, and have sepperate leaders for it. The UU for Atreides shouldnt really need to change IMHO, but I'll leave it open for others (more qualified) to decide.

i agree. the alternate leader idea will allow players to play the original leaders or even create their own Dune Novel. :o

Jeckel > Sixth book : Chapterhouse ;)

Here a bunch of people who could make it as Civ in a "Only Arrakis Dune Mod"

- House Atreides
- House Harkonnen
- House Corrino (Perhaps ?)
- Fremen (probably 2 to 5 Fremen Civs)
- Spice Smugglers
- Bene Tleilax
- Some Minor House ? Ordos could appear here, a little wink to Dune 2.

The Space Guild and Bene Gesserit (IMO) shouldn't be full civ. Neither would try to take over Dune by themself. They are more political. Perhaps the answer lie in Python like Jeckel suggested. ;) Such "python" organisations could make Dune a very unique MOD I think.

I was forwarded this thread by a friend. I have been thinking of putting together a mod. I have been a big fan of the universe for 22 years and have recently had the fire lit because of the outstanding prequel books that have been released. I have put some thought into the Houses and Civics that could be used. As far as maps, desert and desert hills and mountains. Sandworms cannot travel in mountain ranges, but can randomly appear near units that don't have Fremen Desert Survival training. Units can also train in survival I to get a stillsuit, without which they would lose 1hp / turn in the "open" desert. I have so many more ideas, but may need help seeing it come to fruition..."The Sleeper (mod) must Awaken!"

--Neo Knight

I was forwarded this thread by a friend. I have been thinking of putting together a mod. I have been a big fan of the universe for 22 years and have recently had the fire lit because of the outstanding prequel books that have been released. I have put some thought into the Houses and Civics that could be used. As far as maps, desert and desert hills and mountains. Sandworms cannot travel in mountain ranges, but can randomly appear near units that don't have Fremen Desert Survival training. Units can also train in survival I to get a stillsuit, without which they would lose 1hp / turn in the "open" desert. I have so many more ideas, but may need help seeing it come to fruition..."The Sleeper (mod) must Awaken!"

--Neo Knight

if you want, why dont you post your contributions here?

Note, I was talking about using the best resources available while staying away from the dissonance Emperor brought to Dune, although personally I don't mind Emperor, I agree that the devastator is way too slow, I actually think it was faster as a tank. I think they just were trying to make the game unique and just went a little bit too far with certain things. The Sardukar are cool in that game you have to admit and so are the fremen... But yes they went a bit too far in other areas...

you could make fremen avalible to more than one civ and sardukar for corrino and harkonnen.

the mercenary mod (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=3779841) might be useful for this game

if you want, why dont you post your contributions here?
I am still really new to msg boards, but would love to collaborate on something if I am not the lead developer. I just picked up a book on Python, in hopes that I can grasp it quickly. I understand that a group of people could get it done faster, though.

I am still really new to msg boards, but would love to collaborate on something if I am not the lead developer. I just picked up a book on Python, in hopes that I can grasp it quickly. I understand that a group of people could get it done faster, though.

Kudos brotha!! :goodjob:

Great to see that this mod is starting to pick up a team to accomplish it. Healz.

Great to see that this mod is coming together with a team to bring it to fruitation. Healz.

you know, chamedrys's new windtrap could be a great graphic to replace the "farms" on dune. I think we should replace all "food" instances with "water" instances. what yall think?

you know, chamedrys's new windtrap could be a great graphic to replace the "farms" on dune. I think we should replace all "food" instances with "water" instances. what yall think?
Agreed. :goodjob:

Yeah, farms make no sense on the sand :lol:

chamedrys!!
can you make a sand worm unit prototype? are you able to do such a thing?

chamedrys!!
can you make a sand worm unit prototype? are you able to do such a thing?

Sorry, but I can't create new animations:sad:

crap. :dry:

well, your buildings are certainly great. :)

lets not let this idea die! I say that we start with basics, adding the civs in first, even without flags or leaderheads, it should be the first thing we do. Once we have working civs we can start editing the game interface and everything else to make it more "Dunish" and work from there.

Now, lets make a short list of the 'first factions' we will be adding to the mod. This starting point should have:

Faction Name
Leader Name
Traits of Leader
Favorite Civic of Leader
Unique Unit
Color


I foresee one major issue being the death or life of this project: Animations and Graphics If no one present has the ability to make custom art for the project, we may need to use stock civ4 units and graphics for the time being.

My idea with this is simple: we focus on getting the game mechanics to work like the factions, the units, the changes to the game THEN we work on heavy graphics and animations. I like to think of Aristole when he spoke of writing a successful play or poem: allow the plot and characters to move the story NOT the music or special effects. The same goes for us with this project, we should focus on the inner game itself - that is what people want - the graphics and special effects will come later to add flavor and beauty to the work.

~ElConejo

That is a good idea. I will start on thinking about the factions tonite when i get home from day's errands. For now, i will use Warlords Leader Traits as the traits i assign, but of course custom traits can be made later (if nessasary)

Actually you could also use the unique buildings (in Warlords) to assign each of the houses a unique building. Ie. Each House has a buildable Palace which allows Super Weapons Construction.

For faction names:

Harkonnen: Colour red
Leaders:
Vladimir Harkonnen, Industrial, Rutheless
Piter de Vires: Rutheless, Political
Feyd-Rautha Harkonnen: Industrious, Agressive

Atreidies: Colour blue
Leto I Atreidies: Benevolent, Organized
Leto II Atreidies: Benevolent, Philosophical (or something half way mystical, perhaps religious, but I don't really think that one "fits")
Aila Atreidies: Religious, Organized

Fremen: Colour beige or dirty brown.
Paul Muad'Dib: Philosophical, Agressive, Fremen (Bonus production and desert combat)
Naib what'shisname: Agressive, Hardend (hey, he's a native fremen, that has to count for *something*), Fremen

That's all I can think of right now.

Edit: Wait, another:

House Corrino Colour gold
Leader:
Shaddam Corrino IV: Organized, Political

Actually you could also use the unique buildings (in Warlords) to assign each of the houses a unique building. Ie. Each House has a buildable Palace which allows Super Weapons Construction.
I think we should by-in-large move away from the oddities made in some of the PC games of Dune, Super Weapons would seem out of place plus we would need to come up with new Super Weapons for Houses and Fremen not used in the PC games. Keeping it simple and true to the original books is the way to go in my mind. :goodjob:

yeah, i envision a gritty infantry based war. With wormriders. Remember, in dune warriors had to use swords and knives to pierce through enemy shields.

Here is my attempt at a Dune Unit. The Ginaz Swordmasters are reskins and altered models based on the Chinese Swordsman from Warlords.
That wierd halo around their body is my pitiful attempt at a Holtzman Personal Shield.
(compatible for warlords)

File Location (http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=3578)

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l158/ringworldwu/swordmaster.jpg

Ah, yes.. Warlords.. unfortunately I am working strictly out of Vanilla right now, so again I wont be much help 'in the trenches' but I can still gladly give myself to bringing in concepts and such.

I really like that unit actually! And I agree with you, I invision gritty infantry battles and airlift capable aircraft will dominate the battlefield.. Keep up the great work!

Ah, yes.. Warlords.. unfortunately I am working strictly out of Vanilla right now, so again I wont be much help 'in the trenches' but I can still gladly give myself to bringing in concepts and such.

I really like that unit actually! And I agree with you, I invision gritty infantry battles and airlift capable aircraft will dominate the battlefield.. Keep up the great work!

Dont worry :), by the time this mod is done, it'll be even another expansion by then. It doenst matter with 3d modeling. Units are the same, and we need modelers!

I revised the unit so that the "Holtzmans Shields" were closer to their heads.

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l158/ringworldwu/ginazrevised.jpg

Shields on dune is like death warrant, the sand worms are driven mad by it and attack.

Shields on dune is like death warrant, the sand worms are driven mad by it and attack.
Good point! We could still use them on other planets, should we ever incorporate any others, but on Dune that just makes Unit Design even easier to not need to deal with sheilds! :goodjob:

yes, but the Ginaz Swordmasters had allied with atreidies. The only fought once really, in the original book. That was when Harkonnen and Sardukar attack arrakis city.

I propose they only be a unique unit for House Atreidies. Especially since we are giving Freemen Paul Muad'dib.

I dont think they would last on the sand, either. :evil:

Perhaps the shield could be included as a promotion? In essence shielded units have high base strenght, but recive a weakness in/on desert (to represent turning their shields off, this ought to be pretty severe since on of the main reasons why the fremen are so good is that they do not compensate for shield when they fight) and perhaps a weakness against lasers (you know what happens).

They would also have a high resistance to ranged units and some resistance against melee units

Perhaps the shield could be included as a promotion? In essence shielded units have high base strenght, but recive a weakness in/on desert (to represent turning their shields off, this ought to be pretty severe since on of the main reasons why the fremen are so good is that they do not compensate for shield when they fight) and perhaps a weakness against lasers (you know what happens).

They would also have a high resistance to ranged units and some resistance against melee units

that is cool. is there a way for promotions to make a graphical change in the current SDK?

We could make the ginaz unable to enter the sand. I agree with them as UU for the Artreides and their role as city defenders.

I have an idea, how about making all early, non-fremen units unable to cross desert? Instead they would have to rely on a guide unit that is rather vounerable. This would allow the fremen to shine as they can attack out of the desert, virtually with impunity.

The justification for this is that, not only was dune never properly mapped in the first book, but estimates of Fremen strenght was grossly under estimated, giving us reason to think that inteligence of the desert was disasterously wrong(for the Harkonnen anyway).

The guide unit ought to be quite weak, as he is just one person. Also, when/if the guide is dead the army that was relying on him for navigation is lost in the desert and cannot find their way anywhere.

We could make the ginaz unable to enter the sand. I agree with them as UU for the Artreides and their role as city defenders.

Cheers! :)

@ArneHD
I like your idea. It could be relate to a "dessert Travel" tech. which could allow worm travel for Fremen and Carryall/Ornithopter travel of the desert.

If the guide is easy to kill, I would only use air transport:p

The guide could join a unit like a general and give that unit special promotions that allow the unit to cross the dessert?

I have an idea, how about making all early, non-fremen units unable to cross desert? Instead they would have to rely on a guide unit that is rather vounerable. This would allow the fremen to shine as they can attack out of the desert, virtually with impunity.

The justification for this is that, not only was dune never properly mapped in the first book, but estimates of Fremen strenght was grossly under estimated, giving us reason to think that inteligence of the desert was disasterously wrong(for the Harkonnen anyway).

The guide unit ought to be quite weak, as he is just one person. Also, when/if the guide is dead the army that was relying on him for navigation is lost in the desert and cannot find their way anywhere.

we could use the Great General attachment mechanic for it too. and so it only give the "Open Bled Travel" Promotion

Having guides join as great generals? Brilliant to both you.

hey I was told to come here by Garret.. anyway do yall have the actual game of Dune, I got it for $5 for playstation like 4 years ago..still got my playstation:D ,:hmm: any of yall ever here of a game called Warzone 2100?..had good concepts especilly for the console,like custom units you have different parts and to design one unit,dozens or more of part combination:hatsoff: ,too bad the company was run out of business:cry: , also never saw much of the series or read the books:( , hmm if yall can get me some pics of some of the units, a front and side views at least maybe I could model a few, no big promises only been modelling for 2 years give or take a month, also I know nothing about modding...yet...

the first thing we should get are sandworms
http://www.ou.edu/class/FRINFO/GTA/EGO/Gifs/Personal/sandworm.gif

hmm looks easy, just a tube hmm how long would you say it is, a ratio to its head? Then The hard part is animating and finding the right texture....

Big sandworms have about 1:10 diameter to length ratio. so I would say about 1/10 of the body lenght.

Edit: On second thought, it might be closer to 1/20 of the body lenght. 1/10 seemes a bit too much.

And i have heard that inside the maw of Shai-Halud, there is heat and fire...

And i have heard that inside the maw of Shai-Halud, there is heat and fire...

True, it is more or less immune to fire and heat, lasguns are compleatly ineffective against it. It can be killed, but this is a long affair since it is made up of several independant segments, you have to kill every segment to kill the whole thing

hmm lets see a giant worm with hundreds id not thosands of teeth and is about the size of the space shuttle..hmm want me to make a soilder next to it? Ill be back in an 2-3 hours...also what is the max poly count?

I know nothing about Dune, I saw part of the movie years ago...but I saw this thread and had an idea.

There is a way to make the sandworms dissappear into the sand (any unit actually) - look at the Submarine unit in the Civilopedia. You can change the RenderHeight. A button could be added, to make them go up and down.

You could make them invisible, like a spy. Wouldn't be too hard to make them invisible until they attack, I have been working on this for subs and covert units.

Just a thought.

Also the fremen in the desert? Could make them able to enter desert tile if stacked with a guide. No guide, they can't enter a desert tile, so they'd be stuck out there if the guide dies. But in normal combat the guide would be attacked last in the stack anyway, so ...

hmm lets see a giant worm with hundreds id not thosands of teeth and is about the size of the space shuttle..hmm want me to make a soilder next to it? Ill be back in an 2-3 hours...also what is the max poly count?

the poly count can be somewhat high, as much as 4k. the worms are a bit bigger than the spaceshuttle. they are sometimes measured in football field lengths (the big ones)

True, it is more or less immune to fire and heat, lasguns are compleatly ineffective against it. It can be killed, but this is a long affair since it is made up of several independant segments, you have to kill every segment to kill the whole thing

I think that the best way to do it would be through a sandworm duel. Sandworms are naturally territorial, and when two wormriders have challenged each other to a duel, the riders bring two beasts together and steer them to fight. A sandworm duel must be a terrible sight, especially since the rider must stay mounted!!

Well heres what Ive got so far...

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j69/HecticHermit/wormmodel.jpg

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j69/HecticHermit/WORM.jpg

:D :D :D :D

if you want the model you'll need blender and i will put it on my site in a few days... after I start rigging it...

Well heres what Ive got so far...

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j69/HecticHermit/wormmodel.jpg

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j69/HecticHermit/WORM.jpg

:D :D :D :D

if you want the model you'll need blender and i will put it on my site in a few days... after I start rigging it...

that looks freaking awesome. There are two "Dune" movies out right now, and old 80's one and a sci-fi channel one. These might help you with the animations of the unit. I kind of want 2 ani's: an attack ani (have fun), and an ani where the worm comes straight from below (like in the movie "Tremors" and just eats whatever unit is above it in one swallow

does that even make sense what i said?

hmm well what I need is to learn how to use Nif and then maybe we could get something into Civ4 but right now I got sooo much stuff to do...school and all..so ill try and find time for modding.........hmm well I got and idea well you know the experience and promotions in Civ4 we could it when a promotion is given to the Worm then it would grow...as would its strength....eventually it could act as two(or more units) when it attacks, meaning when it attacks it can destroy multiple units(its draw back would be that it is like calvary and it can't fortify,and it can't be in a Stack, also cant move in tundras) but it cannot be seen in desert terrain.....just a few things too think about maye you can mod collateral damage to acclomplish the multiple attacks...

good work brotha!! use your skillz and bring us wormsign

Looks good! Can't wait to see it animated.:)

Just a note that a Fremen rider will abandon the worm after having riden it for so long, as it would get tired.

yeah, but he could just call another right away

Hmm well lets see I finally figured out how to access the files in Civ4,finally I got the Xml and leaderheads.....I needed another extracting program....hmm well I told yall I got Dune 2000 for playstation....hmm lets see 3 houses Harrkonan, Atredias, Ordos....not sure if i spelled those right, anyway we should start modding leaders for each of these and create civs..we should worry bout units later.....also the terrain must be modified to DUNE settings, desert that cannont be built on, rocke plates are another terrain, where cities can be built, hmm lets see we need, Spice, is that right? just one reasource,well maybe we could figureout a few more, hmm well we need a design outline?
1. Terrein outline
2. Outline for each House
3......for whatever else

Ok, we need to be clear on this, are we going to base ourselves on the books or the games? Because Ordos never existed in the books. They were entirely made up by Westwood.

Books!! House Ordos is a fraud!!! Do not believe the lies of the Bene Gesserit Witches!! :p

hmm well we need more than 2 Civs, are we gonna make the Fremen a seperate Civ? Anyway yall come up with some stuff I'll work on the worm...Hey when I try to modify one of the leader heads after I mod it and put into nifview the animations for it won't play...

Books!! House Ordos is a fraud!!! Do not believe the lies of the Bene Gesserit Witches!! :p

Yes, the Ordos are just in the VERY COOL games. Their mentat was cool but I found the deviators and saboteurs quite useless...

My 0.02 € about the Civs:

-House Harkonnen
-House Artreides
-House Corinno (the Imperial House)
-The Fremen
-Smugglers???

My 0.02 € about the Civs:

-House Harkonnen
-House Artreides
-House Corinno (the Imperial House)
-The Fremen
-Smugglers???

Aye...

And books only!

Ok, the next big question is the harvesting. How could it be done???

okay, the way that CHOAM harvest spice is with carryalls. these are super massive spaceship sorta things. and the carryalls cart around harvesters.

okay, the way that CHOAM harvest spice is with carryalls. these are super massive spaceship sorta things. and the carryalls cart around harvesters.

could we have a SDK mod that randomly places spice anywhere there is deep desert, and then the carryall/harvester could be like a worker/air unit, and would remove the spice

could we have a SDK mod that randomly places spice anywhere there is deep desert, and then the carryall/harvester could be like a worker/air unit, and would remove the spice

Yeah. I like that mechanism, but I don't any Ai player will understand it:(

yeah, then it would have to be an AI mod too....yech :yuck:

I saw this thread am extremly interested in the dune mod. before anyone asks, i have no clue in making models, or scripting. but I do have a few ideas for special units and such. the harkonnen special unit can be imperial saurdakaur. atreides special unit is ginaz mercenaries. (a note on shields, if you read the prequals it says shields go over the body and are slightly shiny, they do not make a little globe) fremen special unit is fadyken. for fadyken, you can use skirmishers as the base model.

hmm well lets see spice... how bout we get a mod that citizens,within the city radius we could make this larger if we need to, citizens include harvesters, collect spice like they collect reasources normally in Civ4 also I think, not sure if citizens dont work when an enemy unit walks into the terrain square...we need this for wars...also we could make a unit that could collect spice out side a city radius, maybe bring back colonies, also my friend mentioned that the Dune world has a currency...and like all cities they need food...we can change the currency from gold to, whatever the currency is called, also hmm let see I could make the models for some of the leaders,the worm is on hold for animation because I'm still new to animation, but I need pics of some of the leaders in dune.

but whoever holds arrakeen city will not have deep bled terrain for squares, only the shield wall areas... the spice harvesters are long range affairs.

If we can send harvestors out in the desert, all the action would happen on the small rocks:(

btw: Is it possible to create radom maps just with sand, rocks and spice?

If we can send harvestors out in the desert, all the action would happen on the small rocks:(

btw: Is it possible to create radom maps just with sand, rocks and spice?

you need to make a python map script. i think this would be unnessasary simply because we have a map for Arrakis.

for the spice, city radii should be larger so more spice can be got, and also, spice patches will become spice blows, and will make a sand worm. as a possible win condition, make an effective artificail spice like the tlielaxu attemp to do in the house books (it fails). also, to go on the great ergs/open bleds, non-fremen troods should require a carryall or thopter.

tleilaxu eventually do get the artificial spice, but this is after Leto II and his godhood-reign

Yeah, about the time, Should this be before or after the events in the book? Or should be begin our own timeline?

i think that it should be at the start of the original novel, Dune. Basically right when the harkonnen sneak attack happens. That way, some of the villages in the shield wall are harkonnen, and some are atredies. Atredies would hold arakeen city, but be faced with a huge onslaught.

How does that sound?

i think that it should be at the start of the original novel, Dune. Basically right when the harkonnen sneak attack happens. That way, some of the villages in the shield wall are harkonnen, and some are atredies. Atredies would hold arakeen city, but be faced with a huge onslaught.

How does that sound?

I don't know, should we make this a scenario at all? Perhaps just have a regular start. Besides, if we are going to have a scenario starting position the fremen are going to have a huge advantage over the others.

that sounds good. We will need to have a look at the map of dune that we are using.

What kind of starting cities, and civ blocs do you think could be used?

that sounds good. We will need to have a look at the map of dune that we are using.

What kind of starting cities, and civ blocs do you think could be used?

Well, I don't know if having a scenario start is that good at all. The Atreidies were wiped out early on and I don't really see how we are going to prevent that if we go for a scenario.

My preference would be to have a standard start, with continents of rock, and seas of sand.

Well, I don't know if having a scenario start is that good at all. The Atreidies were wiped out early on and I don't really see how we are going to prevent that if we go for a scenario.

My preference would be to have a standard start, with continents of rock, and seas of sand.

That sounds genius. And we can have Carryall "Boats" and even apply the "galley sinks" mechanic to infantry crossing the new "sand" domain. We could even put a map script together that gives a "dune-like" word map.

That sounds genius. And we can have Carryall "Boats" and even apply the "galley sinks" mechanic to infantry crossing the new "sand" domain. We could even put a map script together that gives a "dune-like" word map.

Sounds good. Although the start mechanism for the fremen would have to be somewhat complex. After all, they LIVE on the sand! Or can cross it with impunity at any rate.

good idea. would it be possible to have the leader for each raction beweaker reusable great people with if you capture a civs leader they are destroyed?and any way to include mentats?

Up until last month i thought dune was just another C&C rip-off game but then i read the prelude to dune novels and i think a dune mod would be a great idea.

Sounds good. Although the start mechanism for the fremen would have to be somewhat complex. After all, they LIVE on the sand! Or can cross it with impunity at any rate.

Not exactly. They live in something call a sietch. These are spread through out the dessert, but are usually on rocky outcrops, above the sand. The outcrop, however, is deeply excavated and has a signigicant interior.

What I'm trying to say as the fremen would be an archipelago civ, except the "water" is full of resources and spice (no water). we dont have to worry coz they just need "Worm boats" to cross this domain.

hmm..lets see anyone good at skining characters?, also I'll try and get pics for carryalls and such...are we gonna implement anything from previous games? Buildings like wind traps and factories, hmm anyunits like a Sonic tank or the dual tank...special units for Atredies and Harkonnen? hmm also do the harkonnen have any offensive areial units? I could model some of these but yall gonna have to skin them and make the XML for them.....hmm maybe have to get Blender too.....

Hmm I think we could come up with specifics for each Civ....by the way in 2 weeeks ill get a 2-3 weeks off from school and maybe then I could really work on this mod....so plan for those weeks to do someting...

!!!!!!!!!IMPORTANT!!!!!!!!
I need some pics of :
Leaders of each House
Special units
Anything yall need modeled and is important.....maybe even terrain

Also We need to make a list of positions yall like to work in

1. 2D artist
-Skins, textures, buttons
2.Programmer
-XML
-Python
-Other
3.3D Artist(HecticHermit- Novice Modeller)
-Modeling
-animation
-any other 3D work....

4+(any other positions)

Just a note that I do not think that there has ever been tanks in/on Dune. So we don't have to concern ourself with that. Most of the units will be infantry.

Also, Garret, I know that they live in sietches, I and I probably mis worded that somewhat.

there has been tanks on dune in dune 2000 on ps1 there was the devastater tank for the harkonnen.

fist of all, that was a video game, not the books. for the carryall, if any one plays ogame the colonyship pic on evolution skin looks sort of like a carryall.

Hmm I think we could come up with specifics for each Civ....by the way in 2 weeeks ill get a 2-3 weeks off from school and maybe then I could really work on this mod....so plan for those weeks to do someting...

!!!!!!!!!IMPORTANT!!!!!!!!
I need some pics of :
Leaders of each House
Special units
Anything yall need modeled and is important.....maybe even terrain


Browse for earlier posts in this thread, as there are many pics and submissions posted here.

@ArneHD
Ok :) sorry if i sounded like a dick.

@everyone
i think now is the time for ppl to browse the downloads section, and the Creation and Customization forums, and find anything and everything that could be used for this mod. (remember to look for things we can reskin too!)

Is there anyway you can get rid of that box effect around these units? thx

use the Nifviewer (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=163585). you will need to install a trial version of 3ds max7

use the Nifviewer (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=163585). you will need to install a trial version of 3ds max7


I d/l it and have no idea what is going on with it, i cant figure out how to use it it keeps coming up error and i d/l another one and same thing, i d/l the extra plug-in also, just cant figure it out. sorry. I guess i just need someone to send me a good copy is all.(of the nif viewer):blush:

You need these files in the same folder as the .NIF files you want to look at.

[offtopic]

Still get the same thing,"Render creation failed"[offtopic] sorry?

Nevermind i just deleted everything. I cant get that graphics stuff.
I even tried blender, no use i dont understand anything of this jibber jabber??

well you could use Blender, and get the nifviewer export/import script, its what I got....Hey guys I found a pretty good human character wizard, its simple you just click and drag to get the human features you want......it makes leader modelling alot easier.....just need one for rigging...its called makehuman....its not complete but its still very useful...hmmm i'll try and get some samples to show yall....hmm well I'll go work on that bback in a bit....

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j69/HecticHermit/sample.jpg


Hmm hers a sample I made in Makehuman and rendered in blender....makehuman can't do much besides make humans hehe:goodjob:

nice baron harkonnen, now just give him a fuzzy little bit of remaining red hair :)

well we need an animation....what kind of clothes does the baron wear? armor,leather,silk,etc..need some examples......i'll go with dark leather and maybe a little armor

instead of armor, try to make a "suspensor belt". this is what the fat man used to float about since his crippling disease from bene gesserit witch.

I think Red is the colour of the Harkonnen and the emblem is a blue griffin. NOT a ram head.

bene gesserit should be playable.

The colours of the house is a good one.
The emblem of the harkonnen is blue. The emblem of the artreides is red.
But the house colours were different. I have the read the book to be sure....