http://rebelclub.org.uk/images/Confederate%20Flag%20Normal%20jpeg.jpg

The Confederate States of America

Name: The Confederacy

Starting Techs: Agriculture, The Wheel

Leaders:
Jefferson Davis - Industrious, Philosophical, favors Free Market
Robert E. Lee - Spiritual, Creative, favors Nationhood

Unique Units: The Blakely Rifle (replaces cannon)
-Receives defensive bonuses
-40% withdrawal chance

Color: Custom deep red

The mod is compatible with multiple language support, I think, but right now only contains english. Richmond is the capital city, sorry to all the Alabamans out there. To use, unzip CSA.zip to your mods file, or unzip it somewhere else and move the CSA directory to your mods file.

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c320/Minnxx/Cityview.jpg
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c320/Minnxx/Lee1.jpg
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c320/Minnxx/Jefferson1.jpg
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c320/Minnxx/Civilopedia1.jpg

Download the File Here (http://civilization4.filefront.com/file/The_Confederate_States_of_America;64150)


Known issues:
-The formal name of the Confederate States of America is one character too long for the entry screen, causing it to drop out when you pick your leader. However, it works fine in other places.
-The Blakely Rifle isn't reskinned - I might do this if folks want it
-The discovery of rifling comes after a rifled unit. D'oh.

Planned Changes:
-Better Civilopedia entry for the nation
-Possible addition of another UU - maybe carbine calvary
-Addition of other national flags, other potentional leaders

Please help out by giving suggestions or reporting problems. Hope people like it.

Looks Nice! I've been waiting for this!
But could you do me a favour? There is a reskinned cavalry which would be a perfect UU for the CSA! why don't you use it?

From a Euro perspective, I'd go with something easier to recognize as confederate. How bout a rifleman in a grey coat. Just call him 'The Grey'

Good job! Although I think the UU should be something like Confedarate Calvary or Confederate Rifleman.

My knowledge of weaponry during the civil war isn' the best.

but when u mentioned "Confederate Cannons" the story about the confederetates being ripped off, and sold cheap metal, came to mind.

I believe a lot of their cannons at some point in the war, were faulty and self exploded, causing a lot of problems for the army.. Maybe u know the full details on it.

Cavalry, not calvary (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=calvary)!

Altough I am not an expert of the Civil War, as I know the Union Cavalry was better equipped than the Confederate. I mean they have repeating carbines and lot fo confederate cavalrymen have only pistols. But I agree, early in the war they were more successful than their opponents, mostly due to the Union cavalry leadership. After the battle of Yellow Tavern the Confederate cavalry lost his importance.:(
I suggest that you should use a special mounted unique units, which were greatly feared by the Unions in Tennessee, Kentucky, Missouri & West Virginia. I mean for example the raiders under the command of Nathan Bedford Forrest. It's a simple light cavalry unit with a lots of movement, ability to withdraw from battle, maybe called as Raider. :goodjob:
It's just a suggestion, but there were nothing more Confederate unique unit in the Civil War.:confused:

Correction: This unique cavalry unit should be called Ranger. The ranger units were very successful and feared and the commands of Ashby, Morgan and others. :thanx:

Did some reading..
and at the start of the war... the confederates were considered a lot more skillful with the horses than the Union soldiers.

Basically the confederates were able to run circles around the union cavalry. In the south they learned from a young age how to ride, and how to take care of their horses etc.

So maybe a cavalry unit, with more experience point, maybe a withdrawal benefit something like that. Cavalry was basically obsolete by than anyways. and was mainly used for Scouting.. which could be another idea some sort of Cavalry/Scout Hybrid.. give it more vision.

---I read up on the cannons too, as the war went on, the major plant in Richmond, started to run out of Iron, so they used less and less as the war went on causing a lot of problems with the weaponry.

Interesting. Come up with a UU for CSA. I see the cavalry idea. Also thought about Ironclads such as the monitor vs. merrimack.. then I thought against it. What else is there? Johnny Reb ?

Did some reading..
and at the start of the war... the confederates were considered a lot more skillful with the horses than the Union soldiers.

Basically the confederates were able to run circles around the union cavalry. In the south they learned from a young age how to ride, and how to take care of their horses etc.

So maybe a cavalry unit, with more experience point, maybe a withdrawal benefit something like that. Cavalry was basically obsolete by than anyways. and was mainly used for Scouting.. which could be another idea some sort of Cavalry/Scout Hybrid.. give it more vision.

---I read up on the cannons too, as the war went on, the major plant in Richmond, started to run out of Iron, so they used less and less as the war went on causing a lot of problems with the weaponry.

The thing about the cannons is apt - neither country had much manufacturing capacity, but the Confederacy had an especially daunting task in procuring an effective industrial base, since the Union was more urbanized and industrialized to begin with. But by the same token, artillery played a decisive role in so many battles that I thought making it a UU would encourage greater and more mindful use of arty, as opposed to its typical use in Civ4 as a suicide batallion. Along with that, the Blakely has a particularly mythological aura surrounding it, in examples like the Widow Blakely and the Galena Blakely.
If I do a cavalryman, I'm planning right now to give a blitz promotion, to emulate the growth in use of breechloader carbine arms in the cavalry, which allowed for quicker reloading.
The thing about making cavalry or infantry UU (or frankly artillery) is that neither the North or the South had particular advances that set them apart. That's a generalization, of course, but the two armies used a lot of the same tactics and materiel. But feel free to add anything you want, also.

I mean for example the raiders under the command of Nathan Bedford Forrest. It's a simple light cavalry unit with a lots of movement, ability to withdraw from battle, maybe called as Raider.

One of the first thoughts I had for a unique unit was a raider unit along the lines of Quantrill's men. It was something that was effective-arguably-and mostly confined to Confederate tactics. But I decided to wait on that until we can make new units, since I don't think a cavalryman or any of the foot soldiers accurately represent it. Again, though, feel free to make it if you'd like.

Also thought about Ironclads such as the monitor vs. merrimack.. then I thought against it.

Unfortunately, naval UUs are boring.

Finally - a civ for Bush voters everywhere

Finally - a civ for Bush voters everywhere

Yeah, clearly, those Confederates sure loved the Republican party.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Why confine on one UU per Civ? How about the Ironclad (which is probably the most realistic idea) and the cavalry. It would be enough if the cavalry was just reskinned to make it look like confederate cavalry, the stats could stay the same. Mabey someone could even reskin the rifleman with a grey coat. That would look a lot better than this strange turqouise coat, that doesn't look good with none of the civ's colors...

I saw a reskinned cavalry in this forum but can't find it anymore. If you know what i mean and where the file is, could you add this to your Mod?

Like with several of the new modded civs, while the CSA loads fine and works well, the unit flag is all white (no confederate battle flag).

I know that this has to do with the .dds file in teh mod, any way a noobie can change it?

lincoln was a repub

lincoln was a repub

my first impression was he was sarcastic, u think otherwise.

Like with several of the new modded civs, while the CSA loads fine and works well, the unit flag is all white (no confederate battle flag).

I know that this has to do with the .dds file in teh mod, any way a noobie can change it?

Is anyone else having this problem?

Is anyone else having this problem?
It seems to be a problem in all mods.

Yeah, clearly, those Confederates sure loved the Republican party.
Southern nationalists hated the GOP until Nixon. Afterwards, the polarities reversed. The descendants of slaves, a GOP beacon of support jumped, as did the angry hicks. :)

Anyway, nice civ. I'd give the Confederates an Ironclad or an early submarine as their UU, since the civil war was the birth of the modern naval warfare.

Is anyone else having this problem?

Its strange, sometimes the flags work and sometimes they do not when dealing with new civs.

I know that there is a way to alter the dds and xml files, I just have no skill, knowledge or correct program type to alter them.

Other than this, the mod runs fine.

Southern nationalists hated the GOP until Nixon. Afterwards, the polarities reversed. The descendants of slaves, a GOP beacon of support jumped, as did the angry hicks.

I don't get it. Did people really not understand my sarcasm? As for post-Nixon changes in voting patterns, saying "the polarities reversed" is both reductive and inaccurate. Granted, the vote skews Republican in the modern South. However, It's inaccurate because the party attachment is nothing like it was in the Solid South, where Republicans were always completely butchered electorally. It's reductive because the constellation of issues facing voters - and in fact our the basic nature of national government - is so radically different now than it was at the time of the Civil War that trying to assign these voting patterns to strictly Civil War/Race/Reconstruction issues is absurd. No matter who one votes for nowadays, you're still voting for a post-New-Deal egalitarian administrative state candidate, which would have been unrecognizable to a citizen of the Confederacy. Besides that, a thoroughgoing advocate of states' rights would be pretty repulsed by the aggregation of federal power called for by President Bush's neoconservative policies.
Please understand that this is not meant to be political, and I'm not expressing an opinion about any of the above philosophies or policy choices. Only trying to point out the silliness, unnecessarity, and needless provocativeness of trying to relate a video game representation of a long-extinguished nation-state to the region 150 years hence.

Yeah, clearly, those Confederates sure loved the Republican party.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Funny that... since at the time (1860s) the lothed the Republicans...

I hate stating the obvious..

but just more proof Sarcasm doesnt work on the internet.

Satire has been dead a few years too.

I attempted a CSA mod a while back, and I just cant wrap my head around XML. (Sad but I am old and cranky) The UU I was toying with was Mounted Infantry (inspired by the Army of Tennessee's Cav force tactics) It was a fast unit with mediocre damage. I was trying to make it an effective hit and run unit.

But, as I said, I suck at making things.

BC

I don't get it. Did people really not understand my sarcasm? As for post-Nixon changes in voting patterns, saying "the polarities reversed" is both reductive and inaccurate. Granted, the vote skews Republican in the modern South. However, It's inaccurate because the party attachment is nothing like it was in the Solid South, where Republicans were always completely butchered electorally. It's reductive because the constellation of issues facing voters - and in fact our the basic nature of national government - is so radically different now than it was at the time of the Civil War that trying to assign these voting patterns to strictly Civil War/Race/Reconstruction issues is absurd. No matter who one votes for nowadays, you're still voting for a post-New-Deal egalitarian administrative state candidate, which would have been unrecognizable to a citizen of the Confederacy. Besides that, a thoroughgoing advocate of states' rights would be pretty repulsed by the aggregation of federal power called for by President Bush's neoconservative policies.
Please understand that this is not meant to be political, and I'm not expressing an opinion about any of the above philosophies or policy choices. Only trying to point out the silliness, unnecessarity, and needless provocativeness of trying to relate a video game representation of a long-extinguished nation-state to the region 150 years hence.

Well said for the most part. I've did a lot of reading on the subject you might find this link appealing.

http://www.claremont.org/writings/crb/spring2004/alexander.html

Well said for the most part. I've did a lot of reading on the subject you might find this link appealing.

http://www.claremont.org/writings/crb/spring2004/alexander.html

Very good article.

As an aside, Jeff Davis' preferred civ really should be slavery.

As an aside, Jeff Davis' preferred civ really should be slavery.

The thing is, slavery doesn't really impact the game all that much to warrent being a favored civic by any civ. Anyway, the issue of slavery is not the point of including the CSA as a playable civ. If that was the case, then why don't Egypt or Rome, or most of the other civs favor slavery? The CSA provides material for scenarios (Civil War) as well as for those that have a kinship with the "southern nation".

I knew this was bound to be created! And it's about time -- Civil War Scenarios are going to start popping up. :)

Shouldn't the Rebs have a Rifleman with an extra movement bonus and either perhaps 10-15% vs. Gunpowder units or 15% hills/forest defense?

Artillery definitely shouldn't be the UU. Confederate artillery as a whole was sub-par.
Confederate cavalry was effective during the early part of the war but mainly due to the disorganization of the Federal cavalry.
Ironclads are out because the North had many more and much better ironclads than the South. The CSS Virginia was an exception, and it still was not as good as its competition. (Not trying to burst an bubbles.)

When you look at the most decisive Confederate victories, the major factor is competent, experienced, West Point Infantry leaders. Confederate infantry could move further, faster, and hit harder than their Northern neighbors. Most of that was due to leadership. 1st Man., Antietam, 2nd Man., Fredericksburg, Chickamauga, Vicksburg, the Valley compaign, Seven Days, every time.... Infantry is the single major factor. Outnumbered but still victorious. So in my view the only possible UU is Infantry -> the Rifleman.

Increased movement is a given in my view. Only other decision is to increase strength by 1, and/or bonus against gunpowder units or more accurately -> give a defensive bonus for both hills/trees. In most of these decisive battles, Confederate units were able to get to the best ground first which allowed them to take the defensive against the enemy. Once on the defensive, they were unbreakable. The few times that the Confederates took the role of offense, they usually fared no better than their Northern brothers.

Lee is correct in being Spi/Agg.
I have to argue with Davis Phi/Ind. The South was anything but industrious. That is a major reason why they lost the war.(That and population)
Davis should be Phi/Agg which fits with the South aggressiveness and Davis' idealism of States Rights. Industrious just doesn't fit. Not only do leader traits need to fit the individual, but they need to fit their respective nation as well.
Davis was a strong pro-slavery politician. Slavery needs to be his fav civic.

Excellent work, it looks great, looking forward to playing some ACW mods.
Jaron

I'd Strongly Disagree with Davis being Strong Pro Slavery. Davis was about as likely to be pro slavery as bart simpsons liekly to eat a snickers.

Smal llittle history on Davis.
Jefferson Davis had adopted a black son, who based on records he loved just as much as if he was his own. Northern Generals (cant remember his name, pretty sure it was the crazy on that lit everything on fire think it satarted with an M) anyway he captured Davis's famiyl and threatened to sell his osn into slavery. Jefferson Davis believed that inorder for a slave to be free they must be prepared for freedom, so he and several of his family members and friends would educate their slaves(which was against the law at the time) inorder to prepare them for the freedom they would be granted. Also during his riegn as CSA president thing he did was veto a bill which would amend the confederate constitution and allow slave trading with Africa.(The CSA constitution prohibited the trading of slave unless it was with the United States.) Jefferson also said that the institution of Slavery would end withing 20 years no matter who won. however, the South would of done a graadual process which would prevent Race wars are anything of that matter(thus no kkk) but due to the fact the lost everytihng was immediate and thus there were racial problems. theres no gaurentee the souths way would of worked, but u never know.

Sorry I've read alot on Civil War. lol

Anyways, Nice i think ill use them instead of Rome.

Lee is correct in being Spi/Agg.
I have to argue with Davis Phi/Ind. The South was anything but industrious. That is a major reason why they lost the war.(That and population)
Davis should be Phi/Agg which fits with the South aggressiveness and Davis' idealism of States Rights. Industrious just doesn't fit. Not only do leader traits need to fit the individual, but they need to fit their respective nation as well.
Davis was a strong pro-slavery politician. Slavery needs to be his fav civic.

Excellent work, it looks great, looking forward to playing some ACW mods.
Jaron

Good call on the industrialism thing. Aggressive fits nicely with Jeff Davis.
I think it was mentioned earlier, but R.E. Lee's favorite civ = nationalism fits very well, given his views and temperament. (He took up arms for Virginia, which he viewed as his country.)

Fabus created a "Georgia" (US State) mod in which the Georgans received a cavalry with bonuses. I think he uploaded it to the mod section if you want to check that out...he reskinned it with a gray uniform. (He also did a "Pennsylvania" mod...)

Concerning other (coherent) posts above, it doesn't matter greatly that slavery isn't the best civic -- the point is to choose a favorite civic that fits that leader's playing style when played by the AI. This does produce anamolous results from time to time (I saw Saladin choose Theocracy immediately when it became available to him, even though no religion, as yet, had spread to his land.) In any event, I see no reason to bend to the winds of political correctness and revisionism here.... After all, Davis took up arms to defend southerners indefeasible rights which, at that time, included slave ownership. It would certainly lose a bit of flavor to have a CSA civ in which the AI routinely bypasses slavery!

No leader should be Philosophical and Industrious. The creators of Civ didn't put these 2 traits as a combo for a reason: Together they are way too powerful!

Anyone using those traits not only has an unfair advantage, but is not competent enough to play fair.

Lee should be aggressive (he was a military commander afterall) and since he was pretty effective and smart, give him philosophical too.

Davis (or any CSA leader) shouldn't be industrious, the Confederacy's industrial might was lousy. Just a bunch of cotton plantations. Davis' preferred civic should be slavery. Duh.

Lee should be aggressive (he was a military commander afterall) and since he was pretty effective and smart, give him philosophical too.

Davis (or any CSA leader) shouldn't be industrious, the Confederacy's industrial might was lousy. Just a bunch of cotton plantations. Davis' preferred civic should be slavery. Duh.
Duh? once again.. Davis was anti slavery. Not So much to go right out and eliminate it, he believed in gradual emancipation. His first act as president was to veto a bill that would amend the Confederate Constitution allowing Slave trades with Africa and other nations, their Constitution prohibited Slave trading withany one except the United States. Davis also believed that inorder for slaves to be freed they must be educated to know how to be free, therefore him and several of his family members educated slaves illegally.

If anything, the leader choices are good, if a 3rd leader was to be picked I'd say look for someone who was pro slavery rather than 2 that werent. Personally I dont give a damn whether they like slavery or not in game. As long as I know where they stand (IE they love me or hate me) ill give that leader props.

Great job, a lot of people have been waiting for a confederate civ once they saw a gray-shirted skin for the cavalry. I'm downloading your mod now, but I probably will replace the cannon with the confederate cavalry/ranger. It just looks more accurate than a cannoneer with a poofy black european hat.

No unique unit for the Confederacy? That's not quite true. THIS is the confederate UU:

http://www.charlestonillustrated.com/hunley/


Crewed by six suicidal rebs at a time, the Hunley submarine actually sunk a union warship, but the Hunley also killed two full crews in training, and killed its third crew right after sinking its prey.

Replaces the Caravely, treat it as an invisible caravel, and require iron as a resource.

The CSA being Industrial is not a bad idea...During the Civil War the South did go through a major industrial boom (it grew faster industrially--per capita-- than the North during the war), thanks to Josiah Gorgas and other industrial minded Southerners. I would say that the rebel raider or some such horse mounted unit would probably be a great idea as others have mentioned. But the submarine or even underwater torpedo could also be a cool UU. It would be cool if someone could work a diplomatic victory by wooing England or other European nations.
Anyways, Nice start!

FF

The CSA being Industrial is not a bad idea...During the Civil War the South did go through a major industrial boom (it grew faster industrially--per capita-- than the North during the war), thanks to Josiah Gorgas and other industrial minded Southerners. I would say that the rebel raider or some such horse mounted unit would probably be a great idea as others have mentioned. But the submarine or even underwater torpedo could also be a cool UU. It would be cool if someone could work a diplomatic victory by wooing England or other European nations.
Anyways, Nice start!

FF


Speaking of wooing England, the Alabama itself (made in England for the Confederacy) was an interesting piece of work, a cross between a sailing ship and a steamship.

On the sea, the rebels made extensive use of letters of marque and reprisal, which essentially means that they relied on Privateer forces rather than having a large enlisted navy. The Alabama had a Confederate Capitain, but all of her crew were British.

It would be cool if someone could work a diplomatic victory by wooing England or other European nations.
Anyways, Nice start!

FF

I just finished my game as the confederates, I won the Diplomatic Victory by wooing Greece, Rome, Aztecs, MansaMusa, and Japan to my side. Anyways, I was at war with Isabella of Spain, But I control 419 votes and i need 320 to win so I was set. I also had america on my side but thats cause I was hot seating it and i was America too lol. Eventually I collapsed America into the Confederacy and spread my power. It seemed that Under Robert E. Lee the Confederacy was unstoppable, same with America under Roosevelt, but.. Confederacy was 3 times the size of America if not larger, 4 times the culture and military. So overall Confederacy crushed america. Anyways, these other countries loved me. I eliminated the Aztecs and then went to war with Greece, while in war the SG vote came up, Alexander voted for me. in Diplomatic Victory Vote, They ALL voted for me except japan who voted for Alexander, who was then robbed of his last 6 cities at the next turn. Since the creation of the UN the Confederacy Held control of the vote.

By Far either Civ4's AIs blew or this Civ just knocked the hell right out of the rest.

Speaking of wooing England, the Alabama itself (made in England for the Confederacy) was an interesting piece of work, a cross between a sailing ship and a steamship.

On the sea, the rebels made extensive use of letters of marque and reprisal, which essentially means that they relied on Privateer forces rather than having a large enlisted navy. The Alabama had a Confederate Capitain, but all of her crew were British.


A lot of the blockade runners were hybrid sailing/steam ships as well. Maybe the UU could be a blockade runner and if it makes it to the Bahamas and back you could get a reward of some kind?
Just floating ideas.
FF

Like I said earlier, I really like the new civ, but I'm not a huge fan of the UU (not that it's a bad choice, I just prefer a standard unit to a siege unit for UUs). So, using a button from sabrleord and my own confederate cavalry skin, I replaced the blakely rifle with the Ranger (gray-shirted cavalry w/ 16 str and ignores terrain cost to show confederate horsemanship skills).

Thanks to sabrelord for the button, and of course to Wirklichkeit for the original mod.:goodjob:

*For some reason, the upload of my ranger files failed. I'll try again later.

My knowledge of weaponry during the civil war isn' the best.

but when u mentioned "Confederate Cannons" the story about the confederetates being ripped off, and sold cheap metal, came to mind.

I believe a lot of their cannons at some point in the war, were faulty and self exploded, causing a lot of problems for the army.. Maybe u know the full details on it.

From what i learned thru my studies and watching the History Channel, the Union or "North", had superior artillery, in both quality and quantity of artillery weaponry and in the skill of their crews. The Confederacy had very little industrial capacity, so they were stuck with what was laying around forts in the South at the start of the war, what they could capture, and what could be smuggled in through the Blockade.

I loved the mod, but wasn't too fond of the UU (not that it's a bad choice, I just prefer standard units to siege units for UUs). So, I replaced the Blakely Rifle with the Confederate Ranger (Gray-shirted cavalry with 16 str and ignores terrain cost to show confederate horsemanship skills)

Download the ranger files here: http://www.filegone.com/iwv2

Jefferson also said that the institution of Slavery would end withing 20 years no matter who won. however, the South would of done a graadual process which would prevent Race wars are anything of that matter(thus no kkk) but due to the fact the lost everytihng was immediate and thus there were racial problems. theres no gaurentee the souths way would of worked, but u never know.

Sorry I've read alot on Civil War. lol

Anyways, Nice i think ill use them instead of Rome.

Lincoln would have preferred the same plan, but either way, neither of them was looking at 20 years of presidency.

And I admire anyone who can mod this game, what happened to the straightforward Civ3 modding? That was easy, even the tough parts like editing civilopedia and diplo, this is not even cute.

:clap: Great job Wirklichkeit! This is a good civilization mod. My 3x Great Grandfather served in the Confederate Cavalry. I consider myself a huge Civil War buff the main rifle the CSA used was the lee & enfield rifle. The confederate cavalry was alot better than the Union's because they had more knowledge of the terrain and that the Union's Cavalry really did't get beter untill the last years of the war when the repeater rifle was implemented and of course the confederate Cavalry suffering major casualties. In my opion after the battle of Bull Run, General Lee should of captured Washington possibly ending the war.

Some improvements that I recommend:

*You might want to add the first military use of a submarine the Hunley used my confederate forces

*You might want to add a special movement bonus to the Confederate Cavalry.

*You might want to add General Stonewalll Jackson as a leader.

:cool: I have to say it Virginia saw the most action out of any of the other states
during the Civil War. There weren't as many slaves as other states in the CSA. We Virginians defended our state with honor and we also suffered a lot heavy casualties then any other state in the CSA. We had two of the greatest generals in the Civil War. (General Robert E. Lee and Thomas J. (Stonewall) Jackson)

Here is some basic history on Gen. Jackson.


He served on the VMI Faculty as Professor of Natural and Experimental Philosophy & Instructor of Artillery from August 1851 until the beginning of the Civil War in April 1861.
He was wounded in the Battle of Bull Run and led the confederate forces to victory during the battle.
He died of friendly fire.

Can I use this for a scenario about the civil war I might make?

:cool: I have to say it Virginia saw the most action out of any of the other states
during the Civil War. There weren't as many slaves as other states in the CSA. We Virginians defended our state with honor and we also suffered a lot heavy casualties then any other state in the CSA. We had two of the greatest generals in the Civil War. (General Robert E. Lee and Thomas J. (Stonewall) Jackson)



General Lee was probably the best general on either side, and possibly the best that the US ever produced. Stonewall Jackson was good, but he was no James Longstreet(BTW Tom Berenger does an incredible job playing him in Gettysburg). Those who die early tend to be remembered as better than they actually were.
I won't touch the political "analysis" that has come up in this thread because its an election year over here and therefore there will be more than enough people calling each other racists soon enough.

Wow, this might well be the first mod I download...

Pretty good choices on leader traits. Confederate Artillery was consistently WORSE than Union artillery, so an artillery unit as UU striles me as wrong. My personal choice for a Confederate UU would be a Rifleman with Movement 2 and a defensive bonus (10-20%). Basically a VERY useful unit for DEFENSIVE wars.

In my opion after the battle of Bull Run, General Lee should of captured Washington possibly ending the war.
Some improvements that I recommend:
*You might want to add the first military use of a submarine the Hunley used my confederate forces
*You might want to add a special movement bonus to the Confederate Cavalry.
*You might want to add General Stonewalll Jackson as a leader.

Except of course that Lee wasn't in command after Bull Run unless you are referring to the 2nd battle of Bull Run.
The Hunley, while an innovation, was one ship/boat... it had little affect in the outcome of the war (especially since the south didn't have the industry to support building a fleet of them).
Cavalry was mainly used for scouting and raiding. Jackson was only a military leader vs a capable politician (an eccentric military leader to say the least.)

I agree with the last post, the UU must be Infantry. movement bonuses and defensive bonuses. The southern troops were usually able to move faster than their adversaries (knowledge of the ground helped), and they could put up a fight on the defensive. Only twice in my foggy memory did the Confederates every have a clear major victory when on the offensive - one of the Seven Days battles and Chancellorsville. They were great at defense. Consider also that Lee was in the Corps of Engineers.

I do think another leader might be interesting, perhaps Stevens... there were plenty of whispers about replacing the cold, anything-but-cordial Davis.


Somewhat different subject - this would be for a ACW scenario -> I think it would be incredible if as the North you could have the 1864 elections and depending on the outcome so far... get a different leader (McClellan - have a possible outcome for early peace?)... I don't know if that is possible to put in the game, but it would be cool. Also, how would you have location specific militia? The South had alot of state militia units for home defense that the different states refused to lend to help defend other states when in need... any ideas how this could be represented?

The things one could do with an ACW scenario are almost endless. There could be a historic 1861 version, semi-historic 1850 version (giving a little bit of time for the South to invest in industry), and a balanced scenario starting in 1861 (forget history!! The South needs a chance to win!!)

So in summation:
Leaders: Davis and Stevens
UU: Without doubt - Infantry (with movement and/or defensive bonuses)

"Let loose the arrows' flight"

While I am no expert, I have done a bit of research on the war and on wars in general... Not to mention weapons and anything that goes *boom* :D

In the Tales of the Gun episode about Sharpshooters (I think thats the episode)
It was mentioned that the Confederate in general, were far better shots than Union soldiers and more of the deaths in the war were Union deaths. So my idea for the Confederates is an accuracy bonus to all gunpowder units.

One more thing... Shouldn't Hood be a leader for the Confederacy?
After all, the Texas 5th save Lee's Army of Northern Virginia!

Here is some info about the 5th and justification for the gunpowder accuracy bonus. Make sure you read the part titled "The Bloody 5th". When you do, if you are not familiar with military stratagy, having the low ground is a very bad thing.
http://members.tripod.com/~FifthTexas/regimental_history.html

darn... forgot accuracy was only for siege weapons...

make the Confederate bonus Drill 2 and Pinch.

i use this mod all the time. its freakin great, for once i actually used artillary(in civ 3 id always produce like a 1 or to catapults maybe a cannon or 2) i figured its the UU so it has to have some advatage, and then I invaded 2 Countries using the blakey Rifle, and I realized how powerful the artillary could be. Then i upgraded to Canons and ended up being better, CivIV really gave artillary a good reason to remain. I do wish however we could still get cruise missles.

Anyway, I was atfirst upset about the blakey rifle, but after using it i enjoyed it, id much prefer a diffrent UU tho because the Blakey Rifle becomes out of date so fast, After producing 20 of them during my invasions they became outdated, didnt have money to upgrade, sent 20 Blakey Rifles to War, 15 lived, sent them to war against another country 12 lived, another country 10 lived. Sent them on boat across an ocean to my next victims, 5 Lived. Went to war with another country on the continent(the only remaining one) and I sent them on boat rather than cross land(it was faster) had them attack by sea. 1 Lived and removed the defenses of Tokyo(as in no units not no defense bonus) took the city with a hurt unit, Thus conquering the World.

So i can say im quite pleased with the Blakey Rifle, and artilary in general, i wont go to war with out it.

nice always wanted a confedarte state of amarica to play as!:goodjob:

Goood for beting up normal amarica:lol:

Hello, very nice. Can anyone please tell me what program u or anyone else used to save the flag as a .DDS. When I save mine from photoshop the flag in Game is just black. I have even opened up known good ones and saved them ( No Editing ) and it would still come up black. Any Ideas?

Robo, if you ever get that Confederate Ranger link working, repost it for us if you would. It's still not working for me at least.

BC

Did I tell you that your mod is being used in this scenario (The Civil War 1861-65)?
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=155979

hi can anybody me help??
sorry for the bad english im from germany:D
my problem:
when i play america with the Confederate States of America mod then is the flag of america white in place of blue with a white star!!!:(
i have install the german version of civilization 4.
thank you for help:goodjob:

toue useing the confederate naval flag.
look up national flags on wikie or what ever its called.

hm, maby for a uu u shold do something that replaces riflemen.
maby a sligthly cheaper rifle man, starts with woodsman, and gurrilla. and medic 1 and insted of an normal atack, bring it down by 1 or 2.

Where exactly do I install this mod? I installed it into the Firaxis Mod folder yet when I go into the game, I cannot find the Rebels to play as. Can anyone give detailed directions on how or where to install? Thanks

I love the mod! I greatly appreciate the work put in for it, but I tend to agree that a cavalry UU or a "sharpshooter" (replace rifleman) UU would be most accurate. I also thought Lee should have an aggressive trait, simply because he is such a great general whose skill is on the battlefield. His men were odds-beaters who idolized him (except for maybe George Pickett, who blamed Lee for the disaster at Gettysburg).
I really do not want to come across as being critical. As I said before, I love the mod. I am not very good at adding them, however and relied on my adept brother-in-law to set it up for me. So if you do edit the mod and have a different UU or trait, I would love to know how I add it without messing up the original....

Everytime I play as them, I win. Usualy Diplomatic(while i nthe middle of a war or 2) but I usually end up gettin ahead n techs and expanding rapidly. I always have a good supply of gold. Last game I finished, I won the Domination Victory. I controled 69.99% of population Rivals best was 9% and I controlled 58% of the Land, rivals best was 8%. I took over 3 Continents very easily. I Started Invading one, and conquered on of the 3 civs on it, and was about to take out the other two. and Invade Egypt before I was stopped by my Domination victory. I had Jefferson Davis this time, with Davis I hit economic bumps a bit at first but Slowly Built up and I ended up making 1600+ gold a turn, spending 30% on Tech and 10% on culture getting techs at 4 to 8 turns. my gold was about 30k (Kept Upgrading Troops) I was one turn away from Nukes...

I wanted to continue playing but i got bored with that game. I wanted to start a new one, but I like to Attack when i get riflemen or better. Thats when i get into the game.

i've jumped ahead, so maybe someone else mentioned this.

the biggest advantage that the Confederacy had was 2 fold. 1) OFFICERS. i can't remember exact number but somewhere between 60-80% of Army officers were southern and seceded with the CSA. see: Lee and Jackson as specifics, but the rank and file LTs were also West Point grads.

the second option for a UU would be sniper/raider. Quantrill is notorious but there was another group of Raiders that struck fear inot the Union hearts. i think it was a scottish/irish name... McClellan, M... M something's raiders i believe. anyway one of these two UUs would be better than a cannon.

John Singleton Moseby's Rangers are probably who you refer to....

John Singleton Moseby's Rangers are probably who you refer to....
YES! Moseby. darnit i'm slow... it's been YEARS since i've delved into the Civil War. my grandfather and father are both CW buffs and my GGGF was a Sgt. for the confederates. so i have studied and learned from them most of my life... in high school i used to have to correct the teachers (what do they teach teachers in colleges these days???)! now i can't even remember a simple name. i used to go to the reenactments around MD where i'm from. i LOOOOVEEEEEDDD going to Antietam. anyway, i thought i'd throw in my .02.

cool idea for a Mod. i wonder if since they have the American Rev Mod in the release that they'd add a Civil War mod in the XP.

http://www.vw.vccs.edu/vwhansd/HIS269/Generals/Mosby.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_S._Mosby

to use the Gray Ghost in a game would make my year.

Yes, Moseby's Rangers would work well. (Give them red plumes, Moseby was a show-off!)

Or the Iron Scouts, commanded by Wade Hampton would work. Either would be cavalry units.

Someon ought to make a Union civ to match, with Lincoln and Grant as leaders.

Can ships travel up rivers at all? It would be neat if you could make gunboats for the Union, they made much use of them at Vicksburg and Richmond.

Good point...ships can't go up rivers, but I was bummed that they could not...
At least ships like Ironclads would have a real value....

Bloody Bill Anderson was another one (guerilla), if I'm remembering right. Also remember that both sides had guerillas, not just the South.

I can only see Davis and Lee as possible leaders for the CSA. One as the President and the other as the military leader. Anybody else seems odd.

Bloody Bill Anderson was another one (guerilla), if I'm remembering right. Also remember that both sides had guerillas, not just the South.

I can only see Davis and Lee as possible leaders for the CSA. One as the President and the other as the military leader. Anybody else seems odd.

i agree, although maybe a scripted "Great People" mod for the other leaders? same for a Union Mod.

i think there is a "Gream Military Leaders" mod on the board somewhere, maybe edit it to get Generals like Stone Wall Jackson and J.E.B. Stuart or Tecumseh Sherman or Burnside

I know it may be a little late but the South has always been notoriously Democratic, however their Democrats were more conservative than most.
Another idea for a cav could be like Hood's Brigade or not and you could just give them guerilla and woodsman promotions.

THIS IS AWSOME! I'm always a fan of playing the badguys and this just works well. This is the best thing next to... Darth Vader!

THIS IS AWSOME! I'm always a fan of playing the badguys and this just works well. This is the best thing next to... Darth Vader!

WTF? The bad guys? Man some body needs to have a history lesson.

Alright, first off, Civil War was infact not a civil war. Civil War implies one part tries to take the rest of the country, however, The South wanted independence. If this was a Civil War, then so was the American Revolution. The south had every god given right to suceed, hell, the Declaration of Independence supports their claim to independence.

The Issue of slavery is where you will see the south as bad guys. However, interesting fact, Majority of the confederate soldiers, DID NOT havea slave, why would they fight for somethign they didn't have? Secondly, the abolition Movement started

in the South by Southern Slave Holders. Thirdly, Jefferson Davis, President of the CSA, believed that Slavery was immoral and wrong, and had gaurenteed no matter wha tthe outcome of the war, slavery would end. Confederate Constitution made all Slave trading illegal unless with the United States(which participated in the slave trade for 20 years after reconstruction period). No slave ship has ever docked in confederate territory, nor bore a confederate flag.

Had the war ended infavor of the CSA, Slavery would of ended and there would of been little or no segregation, and no kkk. The North caused Southerners to be scared that their former slaves were going to kill them, however, if the north didnt win, It would of been more peaceful and equal rights would of been granted to blacks, long before 1960. Now your thinking this guys a nut, but.. According to the Slave Narratives, which is a US document containing the beliefs of all or most the slaves i nthe south after the war, over 70% held a positive view of their former masters and were treated equally. now the other 30% are more than likely from rich plantations or the slaves of bums that couldnt afford their own food. but 70%... they cant be that bad. Especially in the North where they were kidnapping native americans and selling them to the carribean or south America, or building and controling ships to transport slaves from africa to south america? Or howbout the thousands and thousands of hangings that were done During the civil war.


Sorry I get pretty pissed off when some one calls the South Bad guys, when they've only looked at one side. Yes Slavery was bad, but too call the South bad for the sins of the world. Hell if it wasnt for the North, slavery would of ended during the American Revolution, but no they wanted to make an extra buck. Next time you call one group of people bad, just remember, your group probably did the same or worse.

WTF? The bad guys? Man some body needs to have a history lesson.

Alright, first off, Civil War was infact not a civil war. Civil War implies one part tries to take the rest of the country, however, The South wanted independence. If this was a Civil War, then so was the American Revolution. The south had every god given right to suceed, hell, the Declaration of Independence supports their claim to independence.

The Issue of slavery is where you will see the south as bad guys. However, interesting fact, Majority of the confederate soldiers, DID NOT havea slave, why would they fight for somethign they didn't have? Secondly, the abolition Movement started

in the South by Southern Slave Holders. Thirdly, Jefferson Davis, President of the CSA, believed that Slavery was immoral and wrong, and had gaurenteed no matter wha tthe outcome of the war, slavery would end. Confederate Constitution made all Slave trading illegal unless with the United States(which participated in the slave trade for 20 years after reconstruction period). No slave ship has ever docked in confederate territory, nor bore a confederate flag.

Had the war ended infavor of the CSA, Slavery would of ended and there would of been little or no segregation, and no kkk. The North caused Southerners to be scared that their former slaves were going to kill them, however, if the north didnt win, It would of been more peaceful and equal rights would of been granted to blacks, long before 1960. Now your thinking this guys a nut, but.. According to the Slave Narratives, which is a US document containing the beliefs of all or most the slaves i nthe south after the war, over 70% held a positive view of their former masters and were treated equally. now the other 30% are more than likely from rich plantations or the slaves of bums that couldnt afford their own food. but 70%... they cant be that bad. Especially in the North where they were kidnapping native americans and selling them to the carribean or south America, or building and controling ships to transport slaves from africa to south america? Or howbout the thousands and thousands of hangings that were done During the civil war.


Sorry I get pretty pissed off when some one calls the South Bad guys, when they've only looked at one side. Yes Slavery was bad, but too call the South bad for the sins of the world. Hell if it wasnt for the North, slavery would of ended during the American Revolution, but no they wanted to make an extra buck. Next time you call one group of people bad, just remember, your group probably did the same or worse.


OMG take a valium, lol.

OMG take a valium, lol.
yeah. sorry. Been stressed to limits have a bad cold and a fractured ankle. if it isnt the coughing keeping me up its the turning in the sleep n pain of the ankle.

Finally - a civ for Bush voters everywhere

Didn't you ever go to school? The Confederacy was made up of mostly Democrats, while the North was mostly Republicans. That's why people were uneasy when Wilson a Democrat from the South got elected as President. You're the ignorant one here.

EDIT: Oh and btw this is coming from an Anti-Bush Democrat so don't you dare call me a Republican hick.

Didn't you ever go to school? The Confederacy was made up of mostly Democrats, while the North was mostly Republicans. That's why people were uneasy when Wilson a Democrat from the South got elected as President. You're the ignorant one here.

EDIT: Oh and btw this is coming from an Anti-Bush Democrat so don't you dare call me a Republican hick.

although you are correct with the politics of the time. The Politcal parties have changed views and swapped so many times that, the Democrats and Republicans of today are diffrent than the Democrats and Republicans of the mid 1800's. But yes, the South back in the 1860's was primarly Democrat, and the North Republican.

i've always liked the civil war mainly because it showed the little guy standing up to the large guy and almost winning. (unfortnatly in history, whatever nation has largest economy always wins! every, every time.)
I think a more apporprate UU for the Confederacy would be some kind of Guerllia unit which would personify the rebel spirt better then a imporved cannon, which would be more of a northern industry thing. but that's just me!

i've always liked the civil war mainly because it showed the little guy standing up to the large guy and almost winning. (unfortnatly in history, whatever nation has largest economy always wins! every, every time.)


Nice summary, but it isn't quite correct. In WWI, of the starting nations, Germany by far had the largest economy. Problem is, they had to wage war on two fronts, and on top of that face a blockade...

To remain on topic, I like this civ. Someone should make a Civil War scenario :)

I guess I could try to make a Civil War scenario out of this and btw, very good civ

i get a white flag :( and i really like the confederate one what gives ? awsome civ though any one get arround to re-making or fixing the Texan civ ?

http://rebelclub.org.uk/images/Confederate%20Flag%20Normal%20jpeg.jpg

The Confederate States of America

Name: The Confederacy

Starting Techs: Agriculture, The Wheel

Leaders:
Jefferson Davis - Industrious, Philosophical, favors Free Market
Robert E. Lee - Spiritual, Creative, favors Nationhood

Unique Units: The Blakely Rifle (replaces cannon)
-Receives defensive bonuses
-40% withdrawal chance

Color: Custom deep red

The mod is compatible with multiple language support, I think, but right now only contains english. Richmond is the capital city, sorry to all the Alabamans out there. To use, unzip CSA.zip to your mods file, or unzip it somewhere else and move the CSA directory to your mods file.

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c320/Minnxx/Cityview.jpg
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c320/Minnxx/Lee1.jpg
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c320/Minnxx/Jefferson1.jpg
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c320/Minnxx/Civilopedia1.jpg

Download the File Here - http://www.filegone.com/j9ol (http://www.filegone.com/j9ol)


Known issues:
-The formal name of the Confederate States of America is one character too long for the entry screen, causing it to drop out when you pick your leader. However, it works fine in other places.
-The Blakely Rifle isn't reskinned - I might do this if folks want it
-The discovery of rifling comes after a rifled unit. D'oh.

Planned Changes:
-Better Civilopedia entry for the nation
-Possible addition of another UU - maybe carbine calvary
-Addition of other national flags, other potentional leaders

Please help out by giving suggestions or reporting problems. Hope people like it.

No Offense but you really should use their National flag not their battle flag (theres a diffrence)
http://civilwartalk.com/cwt_main/resources/images/starsbars.gif

The UU should be the Sharpshooter(rifleman) or Mosby raider (Cavalry)and Lee was anything but creative(as far as traits go). He fits the Agressive mold better since he could inspire his troops to victory

Just a personal thing Stonewall Jackson should be other leader not Jeff Davis (organized ,Aggresive)

I did jump ahead so im sure some of this has been mentioned

At the risk of sounding un-PC I think that Jefferson Davis version of CSA should be the one civ that favors slavery. The governing body of the Confederacy flatly insisted that it be included in their constitution. They only outlawed the international slave trade by a narrow margin at that.

Maybe they would start with the Slavery civ?

The Confederate Raider would be a good UU, also-- a mod of Cavalry, like Jeb Stuart's troops, that have enhanced 'Pillage' ability.

More historically important, but oft-forgot, is the CSS Hunley-- the Confederates had the first attack submarine; maybe they'd get that as a UU?

As an aside-- I always thought that a good UU for the USA would be the Gatling Gun, but maybe that's just me...

I've been unable to get the mod to work. I extracted the files into my mod directory, and I was able to load it from the Civ4 main menu, but the Confederacy doesn't appear as a choice in single player mode.

At the risk of sounding un-PC I think that Jefferson Davis version of CSA should be the one civ that favors slavery. The governing body of the Confederacy flatly insisted that it be included in their constitution. They only outlawed the international slave trade by a narrow margin at that.
lmao.. His first veto in office was against a bill that legalized the international slave trade. The guy felt that the slaves couldnt be free until they were educated, and so he educated them... illlegally. he eve nsaid that within 20 years from the begining of the civil war that Slavery would be abolished in the southern states regardless of which side won. over 80% of the south didnt have slaves, after the war the US Government had asked many former slaves to write the slave narratives or their experiences, and over 70% responded that they were treated like one of the family and held hig hregard for their masters.

Jeff Davis was 100% anti slavery, but he understood u cant remove the crutch until the man can walk on his own.

lmao.. His first veto in office was against a bill that legalized the international slave trade. The guy felt that the slaves couldnt be free until they were educated, and so he educated them... illlegally. he eve nsaid that within 20 years from the begining of the civil war that Slavery would be abolished in the southern states regardless of which side won. over 80% of the south didnt have slaves, after the war the US Government had asked many former slaves to write the slave narratives or their experiences, and over 70% responded that they were treated like one of the family and held hig hregard for their masters.

Jeff Davis was 100% anti slavery, but he understood u cant remove the crutch until the man can walk on his own.

Abraham Lincoln was pro-slavery (at least in his early days) and States rights and taxes were far bigger issues in the war in the beginning. Slavery became a major issue after the emancipation proclamation which only freed slaves in the seceded states. Lincoln used it as an issue to put purpose to the war in face of mass desertions because his drafted troops just couldn't relate to the reasons for the war.

Nice civ, i think thats a very good addition to this game. is there any where on here where thier r downloadable leaders for exsisting civs?

any chance this will be adapted to work for Warlords? I really enjoy playing it.:D

Okay folks, I am thinking about updating this one to Warlords. I haven't done a mod for Civ4 and I know the tools are different than those for Civ3. First of all I propose making 3 UU's First is the Rebel Sharp Shooter, Second is the "Horse Artillery", and third will be the Blakeley Rifle. If it needs to be fitted for 5 UU's then I can consider the Hunley, a Virginia Class Ironclad or a Confederate Dirigeable for those units. I am open to other suggestions as well. I'm also considering a rebel soldier with no movement penalties while he is on or close to home soil.

I have no idea what to use as a unique building.

Now for the big questions. What tools do I need to edit or create animated leaderheads? How about for creating and editing units?

Slave whipping post, maybe?

Perhaps we could make a civil war mod out of this?

Slave whipping post, maybe?

No. You might want to go back to some of the previous posts and read some of the facts about the CSA.

I'm thinking maybe a Cotton Gin or maybe a Town Hall.

The CSA did not fight the war to preserve slavery no more then the Union fought to abolish it.

Don't make me whip out my brain, I hate using it on a Friday ;)

The CSA did not fight the war to preserve slavery no more then the Union fought to abolish it.

Don't make me whip out my brain, I hate using it on a Friday ;)

But they did fight to preserve their right to maintain slavery, and they did employ slaves as a major part of their economy, and they did abuse human life in the process.

Let's not re-write history with apologetics.

But they did fight to preserve their right to maintain slavery, and they did employ slaves as a major part of their economy, and they did abuse human life in the process.

Let's not re-write history with apologetics.

History is already re-written if you believe what you just wrote or were taught it. Slave trade and slave produced materials were a very small part of the southern economy. The fight was against unfair taxation and for enforcement of the constitutional guarantee that those rights not specifically delegated to the federal government were in the domain of the individual states. As far as abuse of human life such abuses were not confined to the South. There were many slaves in the north as well. In addition there were large numbers of people who were in indentured or economic servitude who where physically abused by those to whom they were indebted.

Now, all that said, would someone please tell me where to go on this site or other sites to find out what tools I need to update this mod to warlords. I can handle the XML. What I need to know is what I need to build animated leaderheads and new unit models.

But they did fight to preserve their right to maintain slavery, and they did employ slaves as a major part of their economy, and they did abuse human life in the process.

Let's not re-write history with apologetics.

Trust me history is in need of a re-write, the current trash that is taught in public schools about the so called US Civil War is utter and pure anti-southern propaganda, drummed up by the Re constructionist Union Educational system.

Allow me to tear your argument apart :goodjob:

ARGUMENT 1 - "The South fought to preserve their right to maintain slavery": This is one of the biggest lies taught in schools across the country today, and is the single culprit for the continued existance of the KKK, and racism in the South today, if the truth was taught then the KKK would have died off years ago.

If this statement was true then explain to me these following facts:

1.) The Confederate States of America, banned slavery in 1864, if they fought
this war over slavery then why did the war continue until almost 1866?

2.) If the Union fought to abolish slavery then explain these facts:

(A). The State of Delaware, a Northern / Union State did not ratify the
13th Amendment until February 1901, thus slavery was legal in
Delaware until 1901. If the so called righteous Union fought to
abolish slavery then explain why did they allow Delaware to keep
slaves until the turn of the century?

(B). Abraham Lincoln did not free slaves in the North until after the
war ended.

(C). Abraham Lincolns own words on this matter:
"I would save the Union. I would save it the shortest way under
the Constitution. The sooner the national authority can be
restored; the nearer the Union will be "the Union as it was." ... My
paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not
either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union
without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by
freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing
some and leaving others alone I would also do that."

(B). No where in the articles of secession does it mention slavery as
a reason or grievance.

(3). Also the Confederate States of America enlisted Black troops before the
war even began (1861), the Southern States of Louisiana and Florida had
the first actual Black troops, which by the way were commanded by Black
officers. The Union only enlisted Black troops after they were unable to
draft new White soldiers due to the Draft Riots throughout the Union.
http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r185/FloridaDixieParty/CONFEDERATE%20REVOLUTION%20%20%201861%20-%201866/BLACK%20CONFEDERATE%20TROOPS%20%20%201861%20-%201866/1stlanativeguard.jpg

(4). The South banned international slavery early in its life, and since the
Confederacy had no Slave Ports of its own they could not get any new
slaves. The Northern States of Delaware, Massachusetts, and Maine held
the nations only slave ports in either the CSA or USA.

(5). Out of the entire nation of Dixie only about 3-5% of the population owned
a slave. The slaves were mostly owned by the wealthy plantations, whom
were owned by wealthy textile plant owners in the Northern States, even
the hand full of Southern Aristocrats that existed rarely owned a slave.

Your "facts" are based upon turn of the 20th century re constructionist propaganda used to dis wade Southerners from res erecting the Confederacy, which actually backfired and gave the breath of live to the KKK, if the truth
about the "Civil War" were taught in schools then the Klan would die off.

Here check out this web site, its run by a great Confederate columnist writer by the name of Walter Williams, he is Black by the way.

http://www.thesouthernamerican.org/colour.html

In closing, I'm not surprised that you are mistaken about this period, its not your fault its the fault of the government for feeding lies to all of us. I thought this way as well, that is before I went to the University of Miami (Florida) back in 1999, it took some time, but I finally learned the truth about this matter, and about how this ignorance is not bliss and instead breeds fuel for the KKK's engine and must be wiped out when ever surfaced.

For the record I have a Ph.D in World History from the University of Miami (FLA), one of the, if not the most ethnically diverse colleges in the United States / Occupied Confederate States.

ARGUMENT 1 - "The South fought to preserve their right to maintain slavery": This is one of the biggest lies taught in schools across the country today, and is the single culprit for the continued existance of the KKK, and racism in the South today, if the truth was taught then the KKK would have died off years ago.

If this statement was true then explain to me these following facts:

1.) The Confederate States of America, banned slavery in 1864, if they fought
this war over slavery then why did the war continue until almost 1866?

They banned the import of slaves into the Confederacy. Not the practice of slavery. See my point further below.

2.) If the Union fought to abolish slavery then explain these facts:

Sorry, I cut the next few points because I never stated that the Union fought with the purpose of eliminating slavery. I do believe this is the case in some measure, but not out of benevolence or recognition of rights for slaves.

(B). No where in the articles of secession does it mention slavery as
a reason or grievance.

Several states identified a threat to slaveholders' rights as a factor in secession in formal declarations. True or false?

Alabama's Ordinence of Secession contains the following:

"...it is the desire and purpose of the people of Alabama to meet the slaveholding States of the South, who may approve such purpose, in order to frame a provisional as well as permanent Government upon the principles of the Constitution of the United States"

And Texas:

"WHEREAS, The recent developments in Federal affairs make it evident that the power of the Federal Government is sought to be made a weapon with which to strike down the interests and property of the people of Texas, and her sister slave-holding States, instead of permitting it to be, as was intended, our shield against outrage and aggression"

And Virginia:

"...and the Federal Government having perverted said powers not only to the injury of the people of Virginia, but to the oppression of the Southern slave-holding States"

So yes, several states identify the issue of slavery in their ordinences of secession.

(3). Also the Confederate States of America enlisted Black troops before the
war even began (1861), the Southern States of Louisiana and Florida had
the first actual Black troops, which by the way were commanded by Black
officers. The Union only enlisted Black troops after they were unable to
draft new White soldiers due to the Draft Riots throughout the Union.

How is this supportive of any point regarding the south's position on slavery?

(4). The South banned international slavery early in its life, and since the
Confederacy had no Slave Ports of its own they could not get any new
slaves. The Northern States of Delaware, Massachusetts, and Maine held
the nations only slave ports in either the CSA or USA.

Again, they banned the import of slaves into the Confederacy. Not the practice of slavery.

The Confederate States Constitution contains the follow clause, true or false?

"No bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law denying or impairing the right of property in negro slaves shall be passed [by Congress]"

This is where the argument should end with regard to the CSA's position on slavery.

(5). Out of the entire nation of Dixie only about 3-5% of the population owned
a slave. The slaves were mostly owned by the wealthy plantations, whom
were owned by wealthy textile plant owners in the Northern States, even
the hand full of Southern Aristocrats that existed rarely owned a slave.

Irrelevant. The number of slave owners is not the issue. You may well compare the number of billionaires to the number of poor, then argue that the latter group has more influence based on numbers.

What matters is the number of slaves, not owners, and the level of influence of those owners on politics and socioeconomics.

Your "facts" are based upon turn of the 20th century re constructionist propaganda used to dis wade Southerners from res erecting the Confederacy, which actually backfired and gave the breath of live to the KKK, if the truth
about the "Civil War" were taught in schools then the Klan would die off.

Absurd. The fact is that slavery existed in the south, was instrumental in the maintenance of significant segments of the economy, and was a declared factor in secession by a number of states. The aforementioned is not up for debate.

If you want to discuss why this was true, fine. But the existance of slavery - and the continued support thereof as specified in the CSA constitution - is not debatable.

As for the KKK, that is pure speculation. Racism and organized opposition didn't appear all of a sudden after the Civil War and didn't disappear in the years to follow. And it certainly wasn't absent in the Union.

And please, let's not imply that the KKK was the be all and end all of racial organizations in the US. The mainstream legal system in most states did a fine job of maintaining segregation.

Here check out this web site, its run by a great Confederate columnist writer by the name of Walter Williams, he is Black by the way.

http://www.thesouthernamerican.org/colour.html

I will, thank you.

In closing, I'm not surprised that you are mistaken about this period, its not your fault its the fault of the government for feeding lies to all of us. I thought this way as well, that is before I went to the University of Miami (Florida) back in 1999, it took some time, but I finally learned the truth about this matter, and about how this ignorance is not bliss and instead breeds fuel for the KKK's engine and must be wiped out when ever surfaced.

I'm Canadian, not American. Whatever issues exist in the US school system re: this issue has not affected me. That isn't to say that the Canadian system isn't in need of an overhaul, but the "government feeding me lies" isn't a factor.

For the record I have a Ph.D in World History from the University of Miami (FLA), one of the, if not the most ethnically diverse colleges in the United States / Occupied Confederate States.

You've got one up on me. I've got an Honours Bachelor in History. But I think it's well enough to be able to recognize that slavery in the south wasn't going away after secession - not according to several seceeding states, not according to the CSA constitution.

History is already re-written if you believe what you just wrote or were taught it.

I agree that one needs to think critically about everything they see, hear or read. I also agree that much of what we "know" has been influenced by bias and prejudice and presentism.

But the fact that the earth revolves around the sun is incontrovertible.

The issues of what causes led to WWII, the details surrounding specific events, the discussion of possible outcomes to alternate scenarios are all up for debate.

The fact that Germany and Japan ultimately surrendered is not.

Slave trade and slave produced materials were a very small part of the southern economy. The fight was against unfair taxation and for enforcement of the constitutional guarantee that those rights not specifically delegated to the federal government were in the domain of the individual states.

The relevant questions here are: 1) was cotton the major/most significant variable in the success of the CSA economy prior to the Civil War? 2) was slavery a significant factor in the success of that variable?

I have read little that contradicted 1) yes and 2) yes as answers to those questions. But I'm always willing to learn something new.

From Eugene Dattel's "Cotton in a Global Economy: Mississippi (1800-1860)"

American cotton production soared from 156,000 bales in 1800 to more than 4,000,000 bales in 1860...This astonishing increase in supply did not cause a long-term decrease in the price of cotton. The cotton boom, however, was the main cause of the increased demand for slaves – the number of slaves in America grew from 700,000 in 1790 to 4,000,000 in 1860.

...

The growth of Mississippi’s population before its admission to statehood and afterwards is distinctly correlated to the rise of cotton production. The white population grew from 5,179 in 1800 to 353,901 in 1860; the slave population correspondingly expanded from 3,489 to 436,631. Cotton production in Mississippi exploded from nothing in 1800 to 535.1 million pounds in 1859; Alabama ranked second with 440.5 million pounds.

So it would seem to me that - at least for some states - growth was tied directly to cotton, and slavery was tied directly to support thereof prior to 1860.

As far as abuse of human life such abuses were not confined to the South. There were many slaves in the north as well. In addition there were large numbers of people who were in indentured or economic servitude who where physically abused by those to whom they were indebted.

Agree 100%

Now, all that said, would someone please tell me where to go on this site or other sites to find out what tools I need to update this mod to warlords. I can handle the XML. What I need to know is what I need to build animated leaderheads and new unit models.

Building animated leaderheads is extremely difficult and at present (unless I am mistaken) you can only create non-shader versions of new leaderheads. But you can still accomplish a lot for mixing bits and parts of existing leaderheads, and recolouring and retexturing objects, etc.

Check C. Roland's tutorial for leaderheads. You will need Blender and Nifskope.

PART ONE:

They banned the import of slaves into the Confederacy. Not the practice of slavery. See my point further below.

Nope, the Confederacy did out law and ban slavery in 1865, read this book, I just did a discussion on this last week while visiting the University of South Carolina.

http://www.us.oup.com/us/catalog/general/subject/HistoryAmerican/CivilWarReconstruction/?view=usa&ci=9780195147629

Also the CSA was a Confederacy, thus the central government did not have the authority to enforce any law upholding slavery, thus the Confederate States of Louisiana, Florida, Tennessee, Mississippi, and Georgia all had freed there slaves at different points prior to 1865, and all of the remaining Slave holding States then free there slaves in 1865.
Yet again take a good long hard look at this picture, which was taken in 1861, they are Black Confederate Troops from Louisiana.

Sorry, I cut the next few points because I never stated that the Union fought with the purpose of eliminating slavery. I do believe this is the case in some measure, but not out of benevolence or recognition of rights for slaves.

You see this is the "hole" in your logic, you can not skip over the fact that the Union did not fight the war to abolish slavery, after all this is the context of recorded history. All of the incorrect texts teach that the righteous Union fought the evil Confederacy to free the poor Black slaves in the South, this is a bold face lie, and a huge chunk of re constructionist propaganda.

Also I will take this statement, "but not out of benevolence or recognition of rights for slaves", that you do agree and recognize the fact, that the Union (minus the tiny abolishment movement in the North) did not fight to wipe out slavery, lets move on to the next one.


Several states identified a threat to slaveholders' rights as a factor in secession in formal declarations. True or false?

Alabama's Ordinence of Secession contains the following:

"...it is the desire and purpose of the people of Alabama to meet the slaveholding States of the South, who may approve such purpose, in order to frame a provisional as well as permanent Government upon the principles of the Constitution of the United States"

And Texas:

"WHEREAS, The recent developments in Federal affairs make it evident that the power of the Federal Government is sought to be made a weapon with which to strike down the interests and property of the people of Texas, and her sister slave-holding States, instead of permitting it to be, as was intended, our shield against outrage and aggression"

And Virginia:

"...and the Federal Government having perverted said powers not only to the injury of the people of Virginia, but to the oppression of the Southern slave-holding States"

So yes, several states identify the issue of slavery in their ordinences of secession.

No you are wrong, I have personally just re-read all of the ordinances including the ordinance for the Arizona Territory and added them up only the above 3 states listed "the oppression of the Southern slave-holding States" as a reason for secession.

Also you grossly misinterpreted the dialog of "Oppression of Southern slave-holding States" and assume that these States are implying to the institution of Slavery, when in fact they are referring to the issue of transporting slaves and goods to the territories of Kansas, Oklahoma and else where free of the interference of the Federal Government in the same manor that Northern States could do and were doing, these statements have nothing to do with Slavery and everything to do with Nullification and the Northern abusive taxation of the South.

The "States' Rights" debate cut across the issues. Southerners argued that the federal government was strictly limited and could not abridge the rights of states as reserved in Amendment X, and so had no power to prevent slaves from being carried into new territories, etc.

President Jefferson Davis believed that the states' rights theory protected the rights of the minority against a tyrannical majority of Northerners. Jefferson Davis said that a "disparaging discrimination" and a fight for "liberty" against "the tyranny of an unbridled majority" gave the Confederate states a right to secede.

Also back to the ordinances, where do you see 7 States that list slavery as a reason for secession, I only see 3 states, and for the record the Confederacy was comprised officially of 15 States and Territories (as listed below), and even with 3 States wording slavery into there ordinance how can you state that a minority of States controls the power of a majority of States that did not list slavery at all as a reason for succession (also listed below)?

Confederate States of America:

1.) South Carolina - 02/04/1861
2.) Mississippi - 02/04/1861
3.) Florida - 02/10/1861
4.) Alabama - 02/18/1861
5.) Georgia - 02/04/1861
6.) Louisiana - 02/04/1861
7.) Texas - 03/02/1861
8.) Virginia - 05/07/1861
9.) Arkansas - 05/18/1861
10.) North Carolina - 05/16/1861
11.) Tennessee - 06/08/1861
12.) Missouri - 10/31/1861
13.) Kentucky - 12/10/1861
14.) Arizona Territory - 02/14/1862
15.) Maryland - 05/08/1861 *Never allowed to succeed, the Union arrested the state government before the ordinance could be put to a vote.

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Florida:

We, the people of the State of Florida, in convention assembled, do solemnly ordain, publish, and declare, That the State of Florida hereby withdraws herself from the confederacy of States existing under the name of the United States of America and from the existing Government of the said States; and that all political connection between her and the Government of said States ought to be, and the same is hereby, totally annulled, and said Union of States dissolved; and the State of Florida is hereby declared a sovereign and independent nation; and that all ordinances heretofore adopted, in so far as they create or recognize said Union, are rescinded; and all laws or parts of laws in force in this State, in so far as they recognize or assent to said Union, be, and they are hereby, repealed.

Passed 10 Jan 1861

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Louisiana:

AN ORDINANCE to dissolve the union between the State of Louisiana and other States united with her under the compact entitled "The Constitution of the United States of America."

We, the people of the State of Louisiana, in convention assembled, do declare and ordain, and it is hereby declared and ordained, That the ordinance passed by us in convention on the 22d day of November, in the year eighteen hundred and eleven, whereby the Constitution of the United States of America and the amendments of the said Constitution were adopted, and all laws and ordinances by which the State of Louisiana became a member of the Federal Union, be, and the same are hereby, repealed and abrogated; and that the union now subsisting between Louisiana and other States under the name of "The United States of America" is hereby dissolved.

We do further declare and ordain, That the State of Louisiana hereby resumes all rights and powers heretofore delegated to the Government of the United States of America; that her citizens are absolved from all allegiance to said Government; and that she is in full possession and exercise of all those rights of sovereignty which appertain to a free and independent State.

We do further declare and ordain, That all rights acquired and vested under the Constitution of the United States, or any act of Congress, or treaty, or under any law of this State, and not incompatible with this ordinance, shall remain in force and have the same effect as if this ordinance had not been passed.

Adopted in convention at Baton Rouge this 26th day of January, 1861.

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ARKANSAS:

AN ORDINANCE to dissolve the union now existing between the State of Arkansas and the other States united with her under the compact entitled "The Constitution of the United States of America."

Whereas, in addition to the well-founded causes of complaint set forth by this convention, in resolutions adopted on the 11th of March, A.D. 1861, against the sectional party now in power in Washington City, headed by Abraham Lincoln, he has, in the face of resolutions passed by this convention pledging the State of Arkansas to resist to the last extremity any attempt on the part of such power to coerce any State that had seceded from the old Union, proclaimed to the world that war should be waged against such States until they should be compelled to submit to their rule, and large forces to accomplish this have by this same power been called out, and are now being marshaled to carry out this inhuman design; and to longer submit to such rule, or remain in the old Union of the United States, would be disgraceful and ruinous to the State of Arkansas:

Therefore we, the people of the State of Arkansas, in convention assembled, do hereby declare and ordain, and it is hereby declared and ordained, That the "ordinance and acceptance of compact" passed and approved by the General Assembly of the State of Arkansas on the 18th day of October, A.D. 1836, whereby it was by said General Assembly ordained that by virtue of the authority vested in said General Assembly by the provisions of the ordinance adopted by the convention of delegates assembled at Little Rock for the purpose of forming a constitution and system of government for said State, the propositions set forth in "An act supplementary to an act entitled 'An act for the admission of the State of Arkansas into the Union, and to provide for the due execution of the laws of the United States within the same, and for other purposes,'" were freely accepted, ratified, and irrevocably confirmed, articles of compact and union between the State of Arkansas and the United States, and all other laws and every other law and ordinance, whereby the State of Arkansas became a member of the Federal Union, be, and the same are hereby, in all respects and for every purpose herewith consistent, repealed, abrogated, and fully set aside; and the union now subsisting between the State of Arkansas and the other States, under the name of the United States of America, is hereby forever dissolved.

And we do further hereby declare and ordain, That the State of Arkansas hereby resumes to herself all rights and powers heretofore delegated to the Government of the United States of America; that her citizens are absolved from all allegiance to said Government of the United States, and that she is in full possession and exercise of all the rights and sovereignty which appertain to a free and independent State.

We do further ordain and declare, That all rights acquired and vested under the Constitution of the United States of America, or of any act or acts of Congress, or treaty, or under any law of this State, and not incompatible with this ordinance, shall remain in full force and effect, in nowise altered or impaired, and have the same effect as if this ordinance had not been passed.

Adopted and passed in open convention on the 6th day of May, A.D. 1861.

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GEORGIA:

We the people of the State of Georgia in Convention assembled do declare and ordain and it is hereby declared and ordained that the ordinance adopted by the State of Georgia in convention on the 2nd day of Jany. in the year of our Lord seventeen hundred and eighty-eight, whereby the constitution of the United States of America was assented to, ratified and adopted, and also all acts and parts of acts of the general assembly of this State, ratifying and adopting amendments to said constitution, are hereby repealed, rescinded and abrogated.

We do further declare and ordain that the union now existing between the State of Georgia and other States under the name of the United States of America is hereby dissolved, and that the State of Georgia is in full possession and exercise of all those rights of sovereignty which belong and appertain to a free and independent State.

Passed January 19, 1861.

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KENTUCKY:

Whereas, the Federal Constitution, which created the Government of the United States, was declared by the framers thereof to be the supreme law of the land, and was intended to limit and did expressly limit the powers of said Government to certain general specified purposes, and did expressly reserve to the States and people all other powers whatever, and the President and Congress have treated this supreme law of the Union with contempt and usurped to themselves the power to interfere with the rights and liberties of the States and the people against the expressed provisions of the Constitution, and have thus substituted for the highest forms of national liberty and constitutional government a central despotism founded upon the ignorant prejudices of the masses of Northern society, and instead of giving protection with the Constitution to the people of fifteen States of this Union have turned loose upon them the unrestrained and raging passions of mobs and fanatics, and because we now seek to hold our liberties, our property, our homes, and our families under the protection of the reserved powers of the States, have blockaded our ports, invaded our soil, and waged war upon our people for the purpose of subjugating us to their will; and

Whereas, our honor and our duty to posterity demand that we shall not relinquish our own liberty and shall not abandon the right of our descendants and the world to the inestimable blessings of constitutional government: Therefore,

Be it ordained, That we do hereby forever sever our connection with the Government of the United States, and in the name of the people we do hereby declare Kentucky to be a free and independent State, clothed with all power to fix her own destiny and to secure her own rights and liberties.

And whereas, the majority of the Legislature of Kentucky have violated their most solemn pledges made before the election, and deceived and betrayed the people; have abandoned the position of neutrality assumed by themselves and the people, and invited into the State the organized armies of Lincoln; have abdicated the Government in favor of a military despotism which they have placed around themselves, but cannot control, and have abandoned the duty of shielding the citizen with their protection; have thrown upon our people and the State the horrors and ravages of war, instead of attempting to preserve the peace, and have voted men and money for the war waged by the North for the destruction of our constitutional rights; have violated the expressed words of the constitution by borrowing five millions of money for the support of the war without a vote of the people; have permitted the arrest and imprisonment of our citizens, and transferred the constitutional prerogatives of the Executive to a military commission of partisans; have seen the writ of habeus corpus suspended without an effort for its preservation, and permitted our people to be driven in exile from their homes; have subjected our property to confiscation and our persons to confinement in the penitentiary as felons, because we may choose to take part in a cause for civil liberty and constitutional government against a sectional majority waging war against the people and institutions of fifteen independent States of the old Federal Union, and have done all these things deliberately against the warnings and vetoes of the Governor and the solemn remonstrances of the minority in the Senate and House of Representatives: Therefore,

Be it further ordained, That the unconstitutional edicts of a factious majority of a Legislature thus false to their pledges, their honor, and their interests are not law, and that such a government is unworthy of the support of a brave and free people, and that we do therefore declare that the people are thereby absolved from all allegiance to said government, and that they have a right to establish any government which to them may seem best adapted to the preservation of their rights and liberties.

[adopted 20 Nov 1861, by a "Convention of the People of Kentucky"]

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MISSOURI

An act declaring the political ties heretofore existing between the State of Missouri and the United States of America dissolved.

Whereas the Government of the United States, in the possession and under the control of a sectional party, has wantonly violated the compact originally made between said Government and the State of Missouri, by invading with hostile armies the soil of the State, attacking and making prisoners the militia while legally assembled under the State laws, forcibly occupying the State capitol, and attempting through the instrumentality of domestic traitors to usurp the State government, seizing and destroying private property, and murdering with fiendish malignity peaceable citizens, men, women, and children, together with other acts of atrocity, indicating a deep-settled hostility toward the people of Missouri and their institutions; and

Whereas the present Administration of the Government of the United States has utterly ignored the Constitution, subverted the Government as constructed and intended by its makers, and established a despotic and arbitrary power instead thereof: Now, therefore,

Be it enacted by the general assembly of the State of Missouri, That all political ties of every character new existing between the Government of the United States of America and the people and government of the State of Missouri are hereby dissolved, and the State of Missouri, resuming the sovereignty granted by compact to the said United States upon admission of said State into the Federal Union, does again take its place as a free and independent republic amongst the nations of the earth.

This act to take effect and be in force from and after its passage.

Approved by the Missouri Legislature on October 31, 1861.

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MISSISSIPPI:

AN ORDINANCE to dissolve the union between the State of Mississippi and other States united with her under the compact entitled "The Constitution of the United States of America."

The people of the State of Mississippi, in convention assembled, do ordain and declare, and it is hereby ordained and declared, as follows, to wit:

Section 1. That all the laws and ordinances by which the said State of Mississippi became a member of the Federal Union of the United States of America be, and the same are hereby, repealed, and that all obligations on the part of the said State or the people thereof to observe the same be withdrawn, and that the said State doth hereby resume all the rights, functions, and powers which by any of said laws or ordinances were conveyed to the Government of the said United States, and is absolved from all the obligations, restraints, and duties incurred to the said Federal Union, and shall from henceforth be a free, sovereign, and independent State.

Sec. 2. That so much of the first section of the seventh article of the constitution of this State as requires members of the Legislature and all officers, executive and judicial, to take an oath or affirmation to support the Constitution of the United States be, and the same is hereby, abrogated and annulled.

Sec. 3. That all rights acquired and vested under the Constitution of the United States, or under any act of Congress passed, or treaty made, in pursuance thereof, or under any law of this State, and not incompatible with this ordinance, shall remain in force and have the same effect as if this ordinance had not been passed.

Sec. 4. That the people of the State of Mississippi hereby consent to form a federal union with such of the States as may have seceded or may secede from the Union of the United States of America, upon the basis of the present Constitution of the said United States, except such parts thereof as embrace other portions than such seceding States.

Thus ordained and declared in convention the 9th day of January, in the year of our Lord 1861.

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NORTH CAROLINA:

AN ORDINANCE to dissolve the union between the State of North Carolina and the other States united with her, under the compact of government entitled "The Constitution of the United States."

We, the people of the State of North Carolina in convention assembled, do declare and ordain, and it is hereby declared and ordained, That the ordinance adopted by the State of North Carolina in the convention of 1789, whereby the Constitution of the United States was ratified and adopted, and also all acts and parts of acts of the General Assembly ratifying and adopting amendments to the said Constitution, are hereby repealed, rescinded, and abrogated.

We do further declare and ordain, That the union now subsisting between the State of North Carolina and the other States, under the title of the United States of America, is hereby dissolved, and that the State of North Carolina is in full possession and exercise of all those rights of sovereignty which belong and appertain to a free and independent State.

Done in convention at the city of Raleigh, this the 20th day of May, in the year of our Lord 1861, and in the eighty-fifth year of the independence of said State.

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SOUTH CAROLINA:

AN ORDINANCE to dissolve the union between the State of South Carolina and other States united with her under the compact entitled "The Constitution of the United States of America."

We, the people of the State of South Carolina, in convention assembled, do declare and ordain, and it is hereby declared and ordained, That the ordinance adopted by us in convention on the twenty-third day of May, in the year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and eighty-eight, whereby the Constitution of the United States of America was ratified, and also all acts and parts of acts of the General Assembly of this State ratifying amendments of the said Constitution, are hereby repealed; and that the union now subsisting between South Carolina and other States, under the name of the "United States of America," is hereby dissolved.

Done at Charleston the twentieth day of December, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and sixty.

================================================== ========

TENNESSEE:

DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE AND ORDINANCE dissolving the federal relations between the State of Tennessee and the United States of America.

First. We, the people of the State of Tennessee, waiving any expression of opinion as to the abstract doctrine of secession, but asserting the right, as a free and independent people, to alter, reform, or abolish our form of government in such manner as we think proper, do ordain and declare that all the laws and ordinances by which the State of Tennessee became a member of the Federal Union of the United States of America are hereby abrogated and annulled, and that all the rights, functions, and powers which by any of said laws and ordinances were conveyed to the Government of the United States, and to absolve ourselves from all the obligations, restraints, and duties incurred thereto; and do hereby henceforth become a free, sovereign, and independent State.

Second. We furthermore declare and ordain that article 10, sections 1 and 2, of the constitution of the State of Tennessee, which requires members of the General Assembly and all officers, civil and military, to take an oath to support the Constitution of the United States be, and the same are hereby, abrogated and annulled, and all parts of the constitution of the State of Tennessee making citizenship of the United States a qualification for office and recognizing the Constitution of the United States as the supreme law of this State are in like manner abrogated and annulled.

Third. We furthermore ordain and declare that all rights acquired and vested under the Constitution of the United States, or under any act of Congress passed in pursuance thereof, or under any laws of this State, and not incompatible with this ordinance, shall remain in force and have the same effect as if this ordinance had not been passed.


[sent to referendum 6 May 1861 by the legislature, and approved by the voters by a vote of 104,471 to 47,183 on 8 June 1861]

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ARIZONA TERRITORY: (Was unable to locate ordinance)

After the start of the American Civil War, support for the Confederacy was strong in the southern part of the New Mexico Territory, largely due to its neglect by the United States government.

In March, 1861, the citizens of Mesilla, New Mexico convened a secession convention to separate themselves from the United States and join the Confederate States of America. On March 16th the convention adopted a secession ordinance citing the region's common interests and geography with the Confederacy, the need of frontier protection, and the loss of postal service routes under the United States government as reasons for their separation.
The ordinance proposed the question of secession to the western portions of the territory, and on March 28th a second convention in present day Tucson, Arizona also met and ratified the ordinance. The conventions subsequently established a provisional territorial government for the Confederate "Territory of Arizona."

================================================== ========

You were wrong on these facts as well, on to the next point.

[SEE PART TWO]

[PART TWO]


How is this supportive of any point regarding the south's position on slavery?

What you don't consider the fact that Black's were free to establish there own armed militias, own property, and be an equal to the White man a milestone in American history, and relevant to debunk the false assertion that the CSA only existed to enslave the Black Race?

The existence of free and armed Black Confederate troops in the year 1861 is proof enough to turn your entire argument on its ear, here take another look, they are Black Confederate troops, led by a Black Captain. On the other side the Union refused to arm Blacks until they were unable to replenish their ranks with White men, and even after they forced Blacks into the Union army they were led by a White commander, not a Black one. Also the so called Buffalo Solders were not free men like their Confederate counterparts were, thus the Union forced slaves to fight in the war the South did not. This is yet another flaw in your logic.


Again, they banned the import of slaves into the Confederacy. Not the practice of slavery.

AGAIN, I will repeat myself, the Confederacy did out law and ban slavery in 1865, read this book, I just did a discussion on this last week while visiting the University of South Carolina.

http://www.us.oup.com/us/catalog/general/subject/HistoryAmerican/CivilWarReconstruction/?view=usa&ci=9780195147629

Also the CSA was a Confederacy, thus the central government did not have the authority to enforce any law upholding slavery, thus the Confederate States of Louisiana, Florida, Tennessee, Mississippi, and Georgia all had freed there slaves at different points prior to 1865, and all of the remaining Slave holding States then free there slaves in 1865.
Yet again take a good long hard look at this picture, which was taken in 1861, they are Black Confederate Troops from Louisiana.

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r185/FloridaDixieParty/CONFEDERATE%20REVOLUTION%20%20%201861%20-%201866/BLACK%20CONFEDERATE%20TROOPS%20%20%201861%20-%201866/1stlanativeguard.jpg

The Confederate States Constitution contains the follow clause, true or false?

"No bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law denying or impairing the right of property in negro slaves shall be passed [by Congress]"

This is where the argument should end with regard to the CSA's position on slavery.

AGAIN - the CSA was a Confederacy, thus the central government did not have the authority to enforce any law upholding slavery, thus the Confederate States of Louisiana, Florida, Tennessee, Mississippi, and Georgia all had freed there slaves at different points prior to 1865, and all of the remaining Slave holding States then free there slaves in 1865.
Yet again take a good long hard look at this picture, which was taken in 1861, they are Black Confederate Troops from Louisiana.

http://www.us.oup.com/us/catalog/general/subject/HistoryAmerican/CivilWarReconstruction/?view=usa&ci=9780195147629

If you were right then the above picture should not exist, nor should the other 65,000 (estimated) Free Black troops whom fought and died before 1865.


As for the KKK, that is pure speculation. Racism and organized opposition didn't appear all of a sudden after the Civil War and didn't disappear in the years to follow. And it certainly wasn't absent in the Union.

This is not speculation, if you have listened to the dissertation by Dr. James F. Hampton from the University of Oxford (England), he has declared that the Confederacy much like the religion of Islam, has been hijacked by radical extremists whom have bastardized the symbolic meaning to harvest new memberships and give credence to their own hate filled beliefs, thus if you tell the truth about the Confederacy, embrace it like many African American have been doing in the South, then the KKK will die off.

For example in Mississippi, where the good Walter Williams hails from, his movement to educate Black Mississippians has resulted in a membership drop in the KKK ranks to the point where they have been forced to liquidate all of their assets in Mississippi and leave the state. The only KKK presence in Mississippi is confined to private residencies. You don't consider this a huge jump?

I'm Canadian, not American. Whatever issues exist in the US school system re: this issue has not affected me. That isn't to say that the Canadian system isn't in need of an overhaul, but the "government feeding me lies" isn't a factor.

Well if you are taught that the Confederacy fought to uphold slavery then you are being feed lies, just like we are here in the States.

You've got one up on me. I've got an Honours Bachelor in History. But I think it's well enough to be able to recognize that slavery in the south wasn't going away after secession - not according to several seceding states, not according to the CSA constitution.

My friend, again, I'm not attacking you, just trying to correct this absurd assumption about the Confederacy. Also you need to study up on the "Civil War" some more, the CSA consisted of 15 States and Territories not 7, and only 3 listed slavery as a reason for succession, which is not the majority and can not be representative of the whole.

Also again, the CSA was an ABSOLUTE Confederacy, where the Central Government had very little control to enforce anything, slavery was no different, which is why Louisiana, Florida, Georgia, Mississippi, and Tennessee all had Free Black troops as early as 1861, and the CSA did free all of the slaves in 1865, I have a copy of the 1865 Confederate Emancipation, signed by Jefferson Davis, on my office wall.

[END]

u kno where i can goto read that???

Also... Ten Cent Bill Yope. Bill Yope was the first Black Confederate Soldier to be buried with the White Soldiers. He was highly respected and was a true confederate.

u kno where i can goto read that???

What where you interested in reading, the book, article, etc.

Hey again, I'm not trying to be a turd about this, I'm sorry if I have come off pretty strong, but I have spent the past 11 years of my life doing nothing but reading, studying, and researching the "Civil War" period and the Confederacy / Union / global stances, beliefs, what not. Also to make matters worse this is my job, I tour the country side lecturing to various universities and hope to write a book about this egregious historical error.

:goodjob:

The confederate Emancipation that was signed by JD

I love the war for southern independence. Whats interesting is, I was always told in school southerners were all abusive slave owners and continue to be nothign but racist today and it kind of confused me when Id head down thereto visit with my family only to learn the opposite.

A book I read when I really started studying the civil war was "The South Was Right" and then the "Myths of American Slavery" then "What If the South had won the civil war"

But anyway, where can I read a copy of the Confederate Emancipation that President JD signed because I'm interested in reading it.

But anyway, where can I read a copy of the Confederate Emancipation that President JD signed because I'm interested in reading it.

The only place that you can actually read this very hard to find item is if you can get your hands on "Confederate Emancipation" by Bruce Levine.

http://www.us.oup.com/us/catalog/general/subject/HistoryAmerican/CivilWarReconstruction/?view=usa&ci=9780195147629

Otherwise you can dig through the National Archives in Washington D.C. like I did for the better part of a year to get my copy of the "Holy Grail" of Civil War documents.

I am not able to down load this file. I was hoping that this file is available.

c

Grrr Is The Warlords Version Down Yet?

Ditto!

I'm working on my own Warlords CSA Civ., but that is some time off.

Does anyone have a working link to download this file?

Here a link that works

http://civilization4.filefront.com/file/The_Confederate_States_of_America;64150

The only place that you can actually read this very hard to find item is if you can get your hands on "Confederate Emancipation" by Bruce Levine.

http://www.us.oup.com/us/catalog/general/subject/HistoryAmerican/CivilWarReconstruction/?view=usa&ci=9780195147629

Otherwise you can dig through the National Archives in Washington D.C. like I did for the better part of a year to get my copy of the "Holy Grail" of Civil War documents.
The US constitution , along with the Articles of confederation were very clear that all states were obligated to assist South Carolina from acts of war in Charleston. There was nothing civil about acts of piracy and were to be considerd foriegn invaders.

Here a link that works

http://civilization4.filefront.com/file/The_Confederate_States_of_America;64150


Thank you!

Hey again, I'm not trying to be a turd about this, I'm sorry if I have come off pretty strong, but I have spent the past 11 years of my life doing nothing but reading, studying, and researching the "Civil War" period and the Confederacy / Union / global stances, beliefs, what not. Also to make matters worse this is my job, I tour the country side lecturing to various universities and hope to write a book about this egregious historical error.

Sir..
I'm happy to see someone who knows the truth for a change! I am of southern decent myself and have been "educated" on some of these facts by my father and grandfather from stories, family history,research, and such.
You back alot of what I've learned and been told up with your posts, and I think people should read the history from more than one sorce before they make a stand about what the truth may or may not be regarding Confederate history.
Thank you for the enlightenment ;) .

As a citizen of Charleston, SC I would say that as a UU you should have Confederate Calavery. Everyone knows that us confeds were better riders and shoters. the only reason we lost the war was because we couldn't eat cotton.

Can some one make this BTS compatible?

You no there a newer game out beside warlord its called Beyond the sword :) :goodjob:

I am relieved to see that the ranters have lost their nerve to participate in the discussion in this topic. I have gotten my fill of those people from other places.

Anyway, has the unit been decided on yet? I suggest that the rifleman be replaced with a frontiersman unit. The reason for this is because while everyone used cavalry in that era, no one could match the accuracy of the Confederate Soldier the average soldier grew up hunting small game for food. As an example, anyone else aware of the Union general that was insulting the accuracy of the Confederate soldier only to have his sentence cut off by a bullet going into his head that was shot from almost a mile away? The reason why this is so stunning is because given the poor accuracy of the guns of the day, this feat being done by anyone but a crack shot was almost unheard of. Also in the Tales of the Gun series produced by the NRA it was mentioned that the accuracy of the average Confederate soldier was much better than his Union counterpart, resulting in much higher Union casualties than Confederate Casualties. I also got the impression that the Confederate soldiers accuracy was rivaled by only that of the elite Greenshirts of the Union military.

While the Confederate cavalry was very effective, regiments were not that widespread in the south. Sharpshooting frontiersman on the other hand were considered the norm. Therefore I believe that frontiersman would be more representative of the CSA than cavalry would.

I recommend that the unit be given Tactics (30% withdrawal chance) to reflect the ability of the Confederate soldier to make effective use of his surrounding terrain and Combat I (10% strength) to reflect the Confederate soldiers accuracy.

As for the Unique building if it hasn't been suggested yet, perhaps a Merchant Post (the name trading post was already taken by the Viking empire) would be a good fit. It would replace the market place. The Merchant Post's traits would be +45% city income as apposed to the +25% boost the market offers (modeled on the 20% boost in income the mall offers over the supermarket); +1 happy from fur, ivory, whale, silk; +1 gold from fur, silk to reflect the importance of that type of trade in the south at the time (I would have suggested cotton instead of silk but cotton is not a resource); available with currency; free on industrial or later starts.

On a side note, when talking to a leader of the Confederacy which flag is presented in the backround? The battle flag or a national flag such as the First National?

I just tried to port it to BTS, but I keep getting Errors. All the code that was added into BTS and warlords was added to this Confederacy Code, and code that was removed was removed. I can't seem to get it to work.

If they had a program that could go thru and tell me the errors and hwo to fix them i'd be fine.

I may just Redo from scatch. If I do. I'll remake the UU as a Riflemen.

I can't download the file... :(

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239339

I updated for Beyond the Sword

what about a Rifle UU that started with GuerillaI ?
A barracks would give GuerillaII and if the traits for Davis were Protective/Imperialistic that would give GuerillaII/ DrillI.
(movement/defensive bonus/first strike.) overpowered?

If i could mod i would make a lean, mean version-(albeit weaker?)
Jeff Davis Protect/Imperialistic
UU (rifle)-starts with GuerillaI
cotten as a resource.

can anyone doing leaderhead modding. I'm thinking that if you can take off charlemagnes crown and cloak, put him in a grey lincoln suit and modify the beard to just be one long one at the chin and lighten the skin you can pull off a jeff davis.

Or if you could play unrestricted leaders with a mod. But yours is a good solution.

i asked in another thread if you could mod a mod and the answer was no.

for the Confederacy...
unique leader: Jefferson Davis. uses a re skinned model for Lincoln, with white hair, a more squared beard that is only on the chin, and no mole.
UU: Ranger. slightly faster Cavalry unit. with a plus 2 movement, and starts with Pinch. also has a plus 25% strength against gunpowder units (i.e. riflemen, etc).
UB: Draft Office. Replaces Barracks. 2 free upgrades for each unit. each unit has a lower maintenance cost. +2 happy with Nationhood.
OR
UB: Slave Market. Replaces Courthouse. +2 espionage. -50% maintenance. -50% anger duration from sacrificing population. -50% population reduction when sacrificing population (i.e. when it normally costs 4, it now costs 2).
Favorite Civic: Slavery.

New Unit: idk what to call it, but it should be a unit between the rifleman and the infantry.
the Gattlin Gun would be a nice addition too. some research would be required
and maybe a hot air balloon unit too... as those were used to some extent...
oh... and much farther, a Stealth Gunship

Slavery would not be a correct Favorite Civic for the Confederacy, despite the Confederate States being slaveholding states. In the game, Slavery is the ability of the government to sacrifice its citizens to quickly finish a project; slavery in the historical Confederacy was a private institution. Slaveholders, having invested quite a bit of money in their "property" would have strongly resisted attempts by the government to seize their "property" for its own use. Free Trade is a more compatible Civic, as the Southern States, being agricultural, desired tariffs to be as low as possible, since it allowed them to export more cash crops in return for cheap, foreign-made goods.

For a Unique Unit, a replacement for the Rifleman, with increased movement and defense would probably fit best; I like the name "Foot Cavalry", since that is what Jackson's troops in the Valley Campaign were called (he seemed to be everywhere).

Also, for a Unique Building, one might consider The Cotton Factor: http://www.jstor.org/pss/3740756