View Full Version : Israeli, Khmer, Mass Media, Revolutions and Drugs - my current civ3mod
Jan 22, 2002, 04:23 AM
-Americans replaced by Khmer (mil, exp, special unit costs 3 population but can be used to hurry wonders)
-Iroquois replaced by Israel (com, rel, special unit is a modern age worker with attack and defense points)
-most luxury and bonus resources are replaced by drugs which are needed to build cultural improvements
-Colossus -> Original Accumulation (of the Capital) based on Banking
-Adam Smith's -> World Wide Web, based on Computers
-Military Academy -> Bourgeois Revolution (needs 4 universities and Democracy)
-Pentagon replaced by Proletarian Revolution (15 culture points)
-Courthouse -> Brewery ; Pyramids install Breweries in all cities
-Colosseum -> Social Authorities; new wonder: Social Insurances doubles effect of Social Authorities
-Police Station -> Television Tower (12 culture points/turn)
-new wonders: Contraception (mood effect) and Hollywood (huge cultural impact)
-Great Library -> The Silk Road (Silks needed)
-Wall Street -> Bankers' Conspiracy (additional 1 unhappy in every city - someone's gotta give)
-just renamed: Theory of Evolution -> Freud's Traumdeutung
Changes to Units:
-Privateer gets 2 attack points
-Chariot becomes ground pirat, later replaced by Guerilla
-Helicopter can attack
-Mech. Infantry and Destroyer may transport foot units
-Samurai=Kamikaze fighter (early missile)
-Cossack is Revolutionary War Cossack based on Replaceable Parts
-Musketeers get 4 attack points
Jan 22, 2002, 12:22 PM
Nice ideas you have there...
But two questions: How many shields does that khmer special unit cost? Just 3 pop for a wonder sounds pretty cheap to me.
Do the changed wonders still have the same effects?
Jan 22, 2002, 01:55 PM
Nah, come on IceBlaze, that's nothing! ;)
In fact I didn't expect something about anti-semitism but more the usual "Israel is not religious" "My country definitely has to be..." stuff, that always happens when someone makes a mod where he somehow "rates" a civ or country.
And well, I didn't expect many Khmer to show up...
Jan 22, 2002, 04:52 PM
what/who is/are Khmer anyway?
Jan 23, 2002, 09:50 PM
I just considered the Americans and the Iroquois not representative for the entire 6000 year course of the game, and I thought the Jews/Israel and the Khmer/Thai would rather fit.
I know that it could cause anti-semites to play the Germans and go for Israel cities, but actually I'd rather suggest to play the Israel civ actively for its characteristics are unique in the game.
The special Khmer unit to hurry wonders has probably to be balanced by becoming obsolete earlier, because it's harder to take a 3 pop loss when just one or two of your cities have that size.
Explaining why the Khmer/Thai should be in the game: it was, according Buckminster Fuller, the first civ to discover Bronze Working and they lasted throughout history forming nowadays "Tiger nations" surrounding South East Asia.
There's gonna be a 2.0 of this mod, it's just the one I'm currently playing and I miss most of its changes (the drugs, the revolutions) in all the other mods.
Changed wonders still have the same effect, but some are based on different techs or prerequisites (Bourgeois Revolution needs 4 universities). Only The Pyramids no longer provide a granary in every city until the game ends - you get a Brewery in every city which means a courthouse. I think this doesn't unbalance the game so much.
Jan 24, 2002, 07:06 AM
ok, i will just comment reasonably, and ask questions.
A: Why Israel is religious? it wasnt more religious than other nations at its time - just the first monotheistic ones while others prayed to sculptures or a several number of gods. even today there are a lot un-religious jews just as there are a lot un-religious christians - and just as there are orthodox jews there are orthodox christians... IMO israel should not be religious... the only nations that do deserve to be religious are mostly muslim nations because in there religion always played a MAJOR part in their history, past and modern. same thing with nations that always represented one way in a religion and the government expressed it deeply (such as catholic italy...).
ok, lets forget about the religious, suppose all I said is crap and israel is more religious than anyone else at that time.
but why a worker with attack points? if it is supposed to represent the 'Hitnachluyot' - well - those settlers are much less agressive than the palestiniens who are attacking them all the time (thats a), and they represent a very small part of the nation (less than 5% i think, thats b) and they are not supported by the entire nation, in fact they are only supported by some right wings (thats c). and it doesnt represent anything good about Israel... so taking a bad thing and putting it as the UU is like saying the specialty of a nation is being bad or the best thing they do is producing aggressive workers.... and I take it as a very deep offense and racism about Israel... you had such a big variety of special units to choose from (Spies, Commando, Tanks, Planes, Missiles...) and you chose the one thing that represents a major bad thing about Israel.... I think that is bad....
and if by choosing that unit you actually meant a kibbutznik - well - kibbutzniks are communal workers that has nothing to do with offense.
just explain to me why the religious and why the offensive workers plz...
Jan 24, 2002, 09:32 AM
The effort is to balance historical accuracy and gameplay. It is definetely disputable if - by the few given characteristics in CivIII - scientific or religious would rather fit, if the University or the Synagogue would rather to be build quickly. That's a deep problem to me: is the scientific approach to religion (Kabbala, the first "book religion") rather to be labeled this or that, okay.
But I don't think it's that strange to rank Israel religious in the game, you can quickly build the first temple and spread cultural influence.
The thing about workers' attack points is absolutely correct, they should only have defense points to resist capturing guerilla units. (New challenges need new countermeasures) Good thing we have this forum, my 2.0 will be much better balanced.
But besides, my Kamikaze fighter for Japan or the German Panzer also fulfill every stereotype about these civilizations but unfortunately they fit the gameplay and history is very cynical all the time. Wondered why I renamed the Sistine Chapel Holy Inquistion?
Just a pity that there are mostly one-point-posts. Nobody's got anything to say about my beloved drug ressources system?
Jan 24, 2002, 09:25 PM
Alright no flaming here,
Great to see a mention of the Khmers here, just don't do the "Mao is the leader of china", and make pol pot the Khmer leader.
Ice Balze: Look up "Angkor Watt", the Khmers were a south east asian buddhist (or hindu?) civilization.
On the israel thing, I agree with ice balze the " agreessive " (its really how you use them) workers are the Kibutz ones.
Why not just make them more productive or something?
And things like the "drugs" and "bankers conspiracy" and the bourquasie revolution give the mod a new edge.
Jan 25, 2002, 08:22 AM
Das Ding ist doch das:
Following Robert A. Wilson's empathy for different reality tunnels I would love to see owners of strange views of the world creating their own mods and scenarios.
Where is the Zecharia-Sitchin-Nefilim-X-files-scenario? The Historci Materialism according to Marx? The alienation-from-God-game? The Darwin-vs.-Kropotkin-mod? The James DeMeo Saharasia one?
What if it wasn't all about progress but about slowing down the decline? If the advantages and disadvantages of the specific civ characters would create different game strategies as in Alpha Centauri?
Perhaps I exaggerate the role of revolutions and that other guy the superiority of fascism. But that only should make everyone create more plausible rules, doesn't it?
Jan 28, 2002, 01:50 PM
hehe yeah drugs are cool
i changed the ironworks SW into Large Brewery, making 2 ppl happy in all cities (by supplying liquor "The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems." :D ), but requiring the city to have 2 tiles of grain in the city radius (need alot of grain to brew)
anyway, what the hell is the problem with making isreal religious? no one cares that japan is religious; and i like the worker having defense points - its like normal civilians ready to defend themselves
and anyway, why the **** do ppl flame other peoples mods? its not like you have to play it anyway.
like there was a suggestion of adding a sweden civ, with -get this- shunned govt: communism fav govt: democracy. hahaha yeah i bet i disagree with that; sweden is the poster child for modern socialism; that country runs great as it is
but anyway, i dont care cuz its not my mod - and you shouldnt care about someone else's mod just because it falsely portrays a nationality/nation/empire in your view
and axeman, though i may be wrong, i think the khmers were pre-buddhism; i think they were around before christ, but i admit i dont know too much about asian history, except japan
Jan 30, 2002, 08:13 AM
Things run smoother, the Khmer special unit, though still called F-15, now doesn't look like that anymore, the Israeli special worker doesn't have attack points, the Chariot is not invisible while hunting workers, only the Guerilla (pop cost 1) then is.
Stuff like that and I keep on keepin' on und so.
Feb 08, 2002, 08:31 AM
Just an opinon based on my silly american views, but if anyone should be getting an F-15 style UU, it really should be Israel (since you seem to want them to have a modern-age UU). They use American Jets, with one minor difference... they are trained a whole lot better. Unlike America where we need to have comittees and advisory meetings, et cetera, before using Jets... Israel is surrounded by a lot of nations that really don't like them and modern Israel isn't really all that big, you can fly a jet over the whole place rather quickly and if you need to having week long meetings... your country is already burning. Or maybe a tank or a new infantry or something. Really, IMI is a great producer. Now, hopefully I'm not going to get flamed for racism or something... but when I think of modern Israel, I tend to associate it with an army that is probably the best in the world. Experienced, Mandatory, Well-Equipped. Also, I wouldn't complain about Japan being Religious, considering that the general time frame they modelled the Japan civ after, considering at that point they were highly, highly religious. As for Israel, why Commercial/Religious? Why not... Scientific (As I recall the first non-US Intel research center was in Israel, but I very much could be wrong)... Scientific and uh, um... Industrious, perhaps, considering that the modern Israel (which is what I take it this debate seems to revovle around) isn't militaristic, but... they have one of the best equipped armies (which is an industrial thing) and before that the Israeli built some really nifty buildings, too bad a lot of them haven't survived into the modern age, which is again not so much the ability to get a bunch of people religiously motivated to do something, but to have the industrial base to plan, organise, and execute. However, just my two bits... and being neither Jewish nor Israeli, I really hope I haven't repeated some sort of inflamatory stereotype or anything.
Feb 22, 2002, 02:05 AM
In the .bic file that I usually use, Israel replaces America, and their UU is (easily enough) the F-15.
Feb 23, 2002, 08:28 PM
Some brief points on the Khmer for someone who asked and anyone else.
The Khmer arrived from the Indian region approximatly 1500 BC.
At first they had thier own religion which was really a sect of Hinduism. They built hundereds of temples throughout SE Asia.
Thier empire peaked about 1 AD and it encompassed Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Thailand and most of Burma (Myannmar).
Thier capital was Ankor Wat and it is located 15 miles north of Siem Riep in modern day Cambodia close to the shore of Tnle Sap the largest lake in Cambodia. It is the largest religious complex in the world both anciently and current. The Khmer were basically a religious state much like Isreal is today with religion playing an important role in the political system.
When Buddism was introduced to the Khmer Empire approximatly 100 BC that was when all the problems seem to begin but it was also when the Khmer "Golden Age" began. The modern day form of buddism, as practiced by Cambodians (slightly different from Thai and Laotian buddism and much different that other forms of buddism) is really quite similar to some Christian thoughts and beliefs. (this was my biggest suprise after talking with a few monks for a long time.)
The Thai people originated from the Khmer mixing with natives in the area and then rising up against thier "masters" close to 200 AD. The Vietnamese originated from Khmer mixing with Chinese. The Laotians are a mixture of Thai and Khmer. The Cambodians are the closest "purest" ancestors of the Khmer people.
The kings of the Khmer could not handle the Thai being thier former "slaves" and wanted to be treated as equals. The wars between the Thai and Khmer lasted on and off for over a thousand years (try dealing with war weariness on that! :) )
The kings of the Khmer signed away tracts of land forming modernday Vietnam to buy peace to continue the Thai/Kher war and not risk a second front knowing that would be disastrous. The Laotians came a long later with the Thai and the Khmer or Cambodians at this point basically tired of war giving them land approx 1200 AD.
When Ankor Wat was sacked about 1300 AD the capital was essentially moved to Phenom Phen. Translated means 5 large hills. This was more of a defensive move than a religious one.
1000 AD was the end of the "Golden Age" of the Khmer.
Today most of thier artifacts and history have been erased thanks to the Khmer Rouge (trans. - Communist Cambodians).
I could go on and on but I'll stop here and answer any questions if anyone has any.
If anyone is interested I can give a run down on the Khmer Rouge. Also, thank you for not making the UU of the Khmer the Khmer Rouge. I haven't tried the mod yet. I just found it.
This is the history as passed to me by a former professor of history from Phenom Phen univeristy. It may not be 100% but I feel that it is a lot closer than a lot of other theories and speculations today.
Feb 27, 2002, 06:43 PM
You shouldn't honour Freud. He had no evidence for his theories, so he faked all his results. For some reason his works have not been questioned until recently, so he has managed to screw up most of the science of the human mind during the last century.
Mar 04, 2002, 07:34 PM
Lets get back to playing a game. I will report any other posts in the spirit of the one posted above, no matter whos side they take.
This is a game. Lets keep it this way.:mad:
Mar 06, 2002, 08:08 PM
Good advice for a God...Now even better command from a mod: Say on forum subject and trad topic. No politcs or current events in the game forums.
Razerwing, Citizen K, and icebalze warned for Thread jacking and off forum subject posts.
Mar 09, 2002, 10:49 PM
godlearner, why do you get so upset? I just wanted to say that Freud's works are not an appropriate wonder.
Mar 31, 2002, 10:15 AM
Do the new civs belong to the correct cultural groups? And who are the leaders? I think Isreal should have Moses, you could use a gif of Charleton Heston or something.
:egypt: Let my people go...