Thracian civilization v 1.1

Civilization
Name: Odrysian Kingdom (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odrys)
Techs: Mysticism, Agriculture
Leaders: Spartacus, Teres I, Sitalkes
Unique Unit: Peltast (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peltast)
Color: Blue

Leaders
Spartacus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spartacus) (Aggressive, Creative) favors Emancipation

Teres I (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teres) (Aggressive, Organized) favors Hereditary Rule
(uses Cyrus Leaderhead)

Sitalkes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sitalkes) (Aggressive, Expansive) favors Vassalage
(uses Alexander Leaderhead)

Unique Unit
Peltast (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peltast) (replaces Skirmisher)
(uses Mali Skirmisher art)
- 20 cost
- City defense 100
- Hill defense 50


Changes from the previous version:
- Expanded the list of cities to 50
- Changed UU to Skirmisher

General Notes

- To use, unzip to your Mod folder
- all civ, leaders and units have Civilopedia English entries
- 50 ancient Thracian cities

Perhaps some screenshots?

Which cities you used?

I found these to be ancient Thracian cities:

Odrysia
Seuthopolis
Serdica
Dardania
Perpericon
Bisaltia
Bythinia
Thynia
Mygdonia
Drabescus
Myrcinus
Iamphorynna
Angrus
Brongus
Peuce
Ciabrus
Utus
Oescus
Apsynthus
Cypsella
Bessapara
Amphipolis
Cabyle
Ismara
Mures

Your's is a very nice and lenghty list, well studied. I happen to have an alternative list, you may wish to add to your mod. I couldn't help but realize some of your Thracian cities are geographical regions or rivers while some of them have more Hellenized names instead of original Thracian. Thracians being an ancient and long lost civilization, it is very hard to gather proper names in order of importance, so all we can do is getting as close as we can. This is especially difficult when most of our resources are of Greek and Roman origin. Here's a number of Thracian cities I tried to gather:

Uscudama (Odrysia - Adrianopolis - Edirne)
Seuthopolis (Kazanlak)
Serdika (Sofia)
Beroe (Stara Zagora)
Apollonia (Sozopol)
Pulpudeva (Plovdiv - Philippopolis - Filibe - Plevne)
Therme (Thessalonika)
Salmydessus
Perperikon (Gorna Krepost)
Abydos (Hellespont)
Abdera (Bouloustra)
Ennea Odoi (Amphipolis)
Dardania (Dardanelles - Canakkale)
Oescus (Pleven)
Nicomedia (Izmit)
Skupi (Skopje - Uskup)
Vrata (Vratza)
Perinthus
Drabescus
Cabyle (Jambol)
Myrcinus
Iamphorynna
Menebria (Nesebar)
Ismara
Apameia
Arkadikos
Olbia
Selybria (Silivri)
Singidunum (Belgrade)
Creston
Poltyobria
Maronea
Lysimachia (Lapseki)
Cardia
Callipolis (Gallipoli - Gelibolu)
Sestos
Odessos (Varna)
Alopeconnesus
Cypsela
Madytus
Ciabrus
Utus
Sarmizegetusa
Elaeus
Percote
Rhoeteum
Andros
Astakos
Chalcedon (Kadikoy)
Eion
Swordovori
Tomis
Altina
Sagadava
Storgosia
Naissus
Rodosto (Tekirdag)
Orestias
Evros
Bessapara
Apulon

Isnt Peltast more of a skirmisher than spearman? Wouldnt they be more similar to Malinese UU than Greek UU?

Isnt Peltast more of a skirmisher than spearman? Wouldnt they be more similar to Malinese UU than Greek UU?
my thoughts exactly :confused:

Anyway great work, I will be downloading this one for sure!!!! v:goodjob:

Your's is a very nice and lenghty list, well studied. I happen to have an alternative list, you may wish to add to your mod. I couldn't help but realize some of your Thracian cities are geographical regions or rivers while some of them have more Hellenized names instead of original Thracian. Thracians being an ancient and long lost civilization, it is very hard to gather proper names in order of importance, so all we can do is getting as close as we can. This is especially difficult when most of our resources are of Greek and Roman origin. Here's a number of Thracian cities I tried to gather:


Singidunum (Belgrade)
Apulon


singidunum is roman name for belgrade, but i like this mod :goodjob:

Dardania
That is not a Thracian city , but rather the name for the ancient region of Kosova during Illyrian times.

Isnt Peltast more of a skirmisher than spearman? Wouldnt they be more similar to Malinese UU than Greek UU?

That was my first thought, but Skirmisher in my understanding is not an unit, but a position in the battlefield. It can be anything. This is from Wikipedia:

Skirmishers are infantry soldiers who are stationed ahead or to the sides of a larger body of friendly troops. They are usually placed in a skirmish line to either harass enemy troops or to protect their own troops from similar attacks by the enemy.

A peltast was a type of light infantry in Ancient Greece who often served as skirmishers. Peltasts carried a crescent-shaped wicker shield called pelta as their only protection, hence their name. Their weapons consisted of several javelins, often with throwing straps to increase standoff power.

But, if you all guys prefer Skirmisher over the Phalanx I'll change it.

So, these cities from my list are actually areas. I included them to fill my target of 25 cities for now. I'll replace them when I find more Thracian cities.

Bisaltia
Bythinia
Thynia
Mygdonia
Angrus
Brongus
Peuce

Apsynthus is missing from Tunch Khan's list, but I found this to be Apsynths tribe city.

For the rest of the list I think most of the cities are Greeks or Romans. I have to find evidence that they're of Thrace origin in order to include them.

singidunum is roman name for belgrade, but i like this mod :goodjob: Well so what's the original Thracian name that you know?

That is not a Thracian city , but rather the name for the ancient region of Kosova during Illyrian times. It's the ancient name of Dardanelles as I have stated which is in Asia Minor, north of Mount Ida.

So, these cities from my list are actually areas. I included them to fill my target of 25 cities for now. I'll replace them when I find more Thracian cities.

Bisaltia
Bythinia
Thynia
Mygdonia
Angrus
Brongus
Peuce

Apsynthus is missing from Tunch Khan's list, but I found this to be Apsynths tribe city.

For the rest of the list I think most of the cities are Greeks or Romans. I have to find evidence that they're of Thrace origin in order to include them. 80% of them are actual Thracian city names or settlements founded by Thracians that have adopted Greko-Roman or Slavic, Bulgarian and Turkic names. The remaining 20% are various colonies (Phoenician, Megaran, etc.) that have been occupied and ruled by Thracians.

You can find more info on Thracian settlements on some very good websites on here (http://www.thrace.0catch.com/welcome.htm) and here (http://preussen.geschichtetoday.de/Liste_der_thrakischen_St%C3%A4mme).

Tunch Khan, I spent some time with Google and found that you're mostly right. This is what I found about your list:

City - Origin

Abdera (Bouloustra) - greek
Abydos (Hellespont) - thracian
Alopeconnesus - thracian
Altina - thracian
Andros - greek
Apameia - bythinia
Apollonia (Sozopol) - thracian
Apulon - dacian
Arkadikos - greek
Astakos - greek
Beroe (Stara Zagora) - thracian
Callipolis (Gallipoli - Gelibolu) - thracian
Cardia - thracian
Chalcedon (Kadikoy) - bythinia
Creston - pelasgian
Eion - greek
Elaeus - thracian
Vrata (Vratza) - thracian
Evros - greek
Lysimachia (Lapseki) - greek
Madytus - thracian
Maronea - greek
Menebria (Nesebar) - thracian
Naissus - roman
Nicomedia (Izmit) - bythinia
Odessos (Varna) - greek
Olbia - greek
Orestias - greek
Percote - greek
Perinthus - samian
Poltyobria - thracian
Pulpudeva (Plovdiv - Philippopolis - Filibe - Plevne) - thracian
Rhoeteum - greek
Rodosto (Tekirdag) - samian
Sagadava - thracian
Salmydessus - greek
Sarmizegetusa - dacian
Selybria (Silivri) - thracian
Sestos - thracian
Singidunum (Belgrade) - roman
Skupi (Skopje - Uskup) - dardanian
Storgosia - roman
Swordovori - ???
Therme (Thessalonika) - greek
Tomis - thracian

Are bynthians, dardanians and dacians thracians or not? I don't know about samians and pelasgians either.

During this search I found some new thracian cities:

Pactya
Buteridava
Capidava
Dinogetia
Genucla
Sucidava
Zaldapa

Correct me, if I'm wrong

Tunch Khan, I spent some time with Google and found that you're mostly right. This is what I found about your list:

City - Origin

Abdera (Bouloustra) - greek
Abydos (Hellespont) - thracian
Alopeconnesus - thracian
Altina - thracian
Andros - greek
Apameia - bythinia
Apollonia (Sozopol) - thracian
Apulon - dacian
Arkadikos - greek
Astakos - greek
Beroe (Stara Zagora) - thracian
Callipolis (Gallipoli - Gelibolu) - thracian
Cardia - thracian
Chalcedon (Kadikoy) - bythinia
Creston - pelasgian
Eion - greek
Elaeus - thracian
Vrata (Vratza) - thracian
Evros - greek
Lysimachia (Lapseki) - greek
Madytus - thracian
Maronea - greek
Menebria (Nesebar) - thracian
Naissus - roman
Nicomedia (Izmit) - bythinia
Odessos (Varna) - greek
Olbia - greek
Orestias - greek
Percote - greek
Perinthus - samian
Poltyobria - thracian
Pulpudeva (Plovdiv - Philippopolis - Filibe - Plevne) - thracian
Rhoeteum - greek
Rodosto (Tekirdag) - samian
Sagadava - thracian
Salmydessus - greek
Sarmizegetusa - dacian
Selybria (Silivri) - thracian
Sestos - thracian
Singidunum (Belgrade) - roman
Skupi (Skopje - Uskup) - dardanian
Storgosia - roman
Swordovori - ???
Therme (Thessalonika) - greek
Tomis - thracian

Are bynthians, dardanians and dacians thracians or not? I don't know about samians and pelasgians either.

During this search I found some new thracian cities:

Pactya
Buteridava
Capidava
Dinogetia
Genucla
Sucidava
Zaldapa

Correct me, if I'm wrong

The last cities you've added are alos fine examples of Thracian settlements. About Bythinians and Dacians, they are 100% of Thracian stock which have organized their own tribal bodies into seperate kingdoms. There were many other Thracian tribes spread around modern day Bulgaria, Turkey, Greece, Romania, Macedonia and Moldova.

About other cities on the list, like Abdera, it was found by Greek colonists, but fell under Thracian rule during 4th Century BC like some other colony polis states on the list.

About Singidunum (Belgrade), it was originally settled by a tribe called Scordisci, and there's still a dispute over the origin of the tribe. Some consider them Celtic or Illyrian, while others believe they are Thracian. The only written evidence however comes from the Romans themselves who have invaded the city and made it a Roman stronghold. According to these Roman sources the natives of Singidunum were Thracians.

The other tribe you have asked are the Dardani, who have settled in Dardania, modern day Kosovo. There's strong archeological evidence that they are of Thracian-Illyrian descent. Wikipedia mentions them as Thracians 'commingled with' Illyrians, whatever that means. But most city names like Skupi, Naissus (Nis) and Remesiana (Bela Palanka) are from Thracian language.

So, if I include them all we have around 70 thracian cities.

Anybody disagree with the other aspects - the leaders, the flag, starting technologies, UU...?

It's the ancient name of Dardanelles as I have stated which is in Asia Minor, north of Mount Ida.
From where do you think the Dardanelles got its name ;)

The other tribe you have asked are the Dardani, who have settled in Dardania, modern day Kosovo. There's strong archeological evidence that they are of Thracian-Illyrian descent. Wikipedia mentions them as Thracians 'commingled with' Illyrians, whatever that means. But most city names like Skupi, Naissus (Nis) and Remesiana (Bela Palanka) are from Thracian language
Good point , some Illyrians and Thracians used to "mix" during those times. I have articles that prove the Dardanian Illyrian identity and history.

It is interesting however to hear that "Skupi" is originally Thracian. Today it is about half Albanian, but before Slavic colonization it was part of Albania as Shkup.

By the way , what is this timeframe? Because I could have sworn that at one point Skupi was considered part of the Illyrian Empire...

PS - as far as I can see , you didn't include a flag ....

I suggest you replace the archer instead of the Spearmen. Peltasts were ranged units, and not melee units (like the spearmen). Spearmen are also heavily armoured in the game (at least by the looks of them) and peltasts wore no armor at all, save for their Pelte-shield.

Aren't Peltast anti-infantry skirmishers? Ergo, the axeman is the unit category that fits the description best. They should be vulnerable vs. mounted units but excel vs. melee units

Beyond Rome: Total War my experience with Thracian military is almost nill, but is the Pelstat the best UU for Thrace?

Edit: After reading some of the Thracian pages supplied in this thread I am convinced.

Also, since they are anti-infantry, the axeman position would be optimal, as the archer role is that of defense, not truly an attack unit.

No, peltasts purpose was not an anti-infantry one. At least not in original hands. They were to weak to deal with infantry, really. Instead, their role was to pepper the enemy lines before the main clash to begin, trying to make the enemy into charging or making rushed decisions.

You can imagine, having someone throwing spears at you wants you to charge forward and punch him, not stand still and wait for your generals orders.

And yes, peltasts are definetly the best UU for Thrace. The peltasts originated from there!

I have never been able to make your civ load or work, I can download it and unzip it, it shows up on the mod list in game, but when loaded it never shows up as a choice on the civ screen where you choose your civ. I dont know what im doing wrong. Any ideas?

Some of the cities used are actual area names, and some are too far fetched to be Thracian, but no need to be anal over it, it's a good selection overall

The only thing I subject to is the use of Spartacus as a leader, as he was never leader of the Thracians. All the deeds he's known for happened in the Italian Penninsula, and he was the leader of a band of rebel slaves of various ethnicities.

I think a more appropriate leader would be Rhesus. Ok he's probably a mythical king, but then again he's the most famous Thracian leader due to Homer (he plays a part in Hiliad).

The only thing I subject to is the use of Spartacus as a leader, as he was never leader of the Thracians. All the deeds he's known for happened in the Italian Penninsula, and he was the leader of a band of rebel slaves of various ethnicities.


yeah, i know, but he was a Thracian and he was a leader. We know so little about Thracian so i decided to include somebody famous enough. Actually, the idea of creating the Thrace civilization came to me after watching Spartacus (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0361240/) movie.

I think a more appropriate leader would be Rhesus. Ok he's probably a mythical king, but then again he's the most famous Thracian leader due to Homer (he plays a part in Hiliad).

Maybe, but I know too little about him to make him a leader. What were his favorite civics? His favorite technologies? How he looked like? What is the difference between Teres I, Sitalkes and him?
With increasing the number of leaders I wanted to expand the civic's choice for the player.
So, if the people complain i can remove Spartacus and keep Teres I and Sitalkes only.