View Full Version : Term 1 - Nominations for Minister of Science


Alphawolf
Dec 24, 2005, 09:17 PM
The Minister of Science is in charge of what choosing what technology to be researched and all Great Scientists.

Please submit nominations for the Minister of Science in this thread and Accept or Decline any nominations you may receive. Self nominations are allowed. Citizens may only run for one elected position.

Nominations will close and elections open 00:00 GMT on the December 29 (7PM EST/6PM CST December 28).

-the Wolf

CivGeneral
Dec 25, 2005, 03:24 PM
Edit: I delcine this possition infavor for the State Ministry.

Chieftess
Dec 25, 2005, 04:16 PM
Here's a question for the canidates..

If you feel taking the religion path is risky, then how do you weigh in:

1 - The lack of monastaries that we'll have?
2 - The lack of a potential shrine to give 1 gold per city with our religion?
3 - The lack of religious espionage?
4 - The lack of atleast a few points in good relations with the AI?
5 - The lack of temples to keep our citizens happy?

I know someone who had all 7 religions, and it was powerful! (high science - Industrial Age in record time!)

So, how do you justify disregarding religion for a short term worker gain?

And...

The obligatory questions:

- What version do you have? (1.00? 1.09? 1.52?)
- How many games have you played so far?
- What level do you feel most comfortable with?
- How many games have you won and at what level?

Alphawolf
Dec 26, 2005, 12:18 AM
:bump: No one is currently running for this office.

-the Wolf

Alphawolf
Dec 26, 2005, 12:23 AM
I know someone who had all 7 religions, and it was powerful! (high science - Industrial Age in record time!)

This is very true the two times I got all seven Holy Cities happened to me I easily beat the AI. :) Religions are Powerful!

-the Wolf

Blkbird
Dec 26, 2005, 06:50 AM
I like to nominate myself (and naturally accept the nomination) for this position.

Blkbird
Dec 26, 2005, 07:08 AM
Here's a question for the canidates..

[...]

I know someone who had all 7 religions, and it was powerful! (high science - Industrial Age in record time!)

So, how do you justify disregarding religion for a short term worker gain?

Maybe my English is not good enough, anyway I don't understand those questions - or more percisely, the context in which they're raised. They look rather like rhetorical questions than real questions to me.

The obligatory questions:

- What version do you have? (1.00? 1.09? 1.52?)
- How many games have you played so far?
- What level do you feel most comfortable with?
- How many games have you won and at what level?

- I have 1.09 right now and will update to 1.52 eventually.
- I've played (and won) two single games, both Large maps starting from the Ancient Era. I'm also playing a PBEM right now, and participating in the Warmup Demogame.
- I'm going up with the Difficulty Level from game to game, so far the highest has been Noble, which was pretty easy for me to play.

If you'd like to know more about my style of play, particularly my stance on Research in the early stage of a game, please refer to my various posts in the Warmup Demogame subforum.

Chieftess
Dec 26, 2005, 07:57 AM
So, how do you justify disregarding religion for a short term worker gain?Maybe my English is not good enough, anyway I don't understand those questions - or more percisely, the context in which they're raised. They look rather like rhetorical questions than real questions to me.


Ok, what I meant was:

- Some people choose to research the religion techs as part of their strategy. (i.e., to get monastaries, spawn Great Prophets to hopefully get a shrine - which means more income).

- Others choose things like concentrating on worker techs (agriculture, mining, etc.).

- Still others choose war techs (bronze working, iron working, machinery...).

So, the question is asking, "Why would you pick one strategy over another?" (i.e., religion and not domestic (worker techs), or worker techs and not war techs, etc.).

Since you're from Germany, I'll ask it in German (but please answer it in English if you can).
Warum Forschungen Sie "landwirtschaftliche Technologien" und nicht "Religion Technologien"? Was ist deinen Strategie?

Please answer in English. (Anworten Sie auf Englisch, bitte).

Blkbird
Dec 26, 2005, 09:06 AM
Since you're from Germany, I'll ask it in German (but please answer it in English if you can).

First, despite living in Germany, I'm not a German, and German is not my first language (I do master it fairly well, as proven by the fact that I regularly write for German-language press). Second, your German is a lot worse than my English (sorry). Third, your clarification above was enough, it wasn't a language problem after all, it was the context of your questions which you originally left out.

I am, if you will, a "Worker Tech" player in my single games. My general strategy in the early stage is to build a few cities in a very short time (with some chop-rush) to secure important resources and strategical locations. Researching worker techs help me doing this, and the effects of those techs (higher production) multiply with the number of cities.

To answer your original questions in detail:

1 - The lack of monastaries that we'll have?
After adopting State Religion (which I usually do after I discovered my first religion) no Monatary is needed to train Missionary any more. The Research bonus is compesated by a higher commercial productivity due to the "worker techs" and buildings.

2 - The lack of a potential shrine to give 1 gold per city with our religion?
That's not much. The Colossus brings more Gold, for instance.

3 - The lack of religious espionage?
The most important thing, what is a foreign city building currently, is not revealed through religious espionage, thus it appears quite useless to me.

4 - The lack of atleast a few points in good relations with the AI?
Having a different State Religion is much worse, relation-weise, than no State Religion at all.

5 - The lack of temples to keep our citizens happy?
Luxurious resources. Secure as many as possible, as early as possible.

I don't play "atheistically", I do race for the later Religions. Also, all of the above are related to my personaly single games and the general strategies I use there. I am fully aware that our Demogame is unlikely to be played the same style as my single games, and I am both willing and prepared to adapt the Research strategy to other aspects of our game.

Chieftess
Dec 26, 2005, 09:23 AM
Ah. Your user profile (ISP) said .de when I looked. :) (so it was just a guess)

DaveShack
Dec 26, 2005, 10:34 AM
I nominate Mike Lemmer.

Nomad Bryce
Dec 26, 2005, 03:35 PM
I nominate koondrad

koondrad
Dec 26, 2005, 04:27 PM
I accept the nomination.

Mike Lemmer
Dec 26, 2005, 08:00 PM
Behind every great nation lies a wealth of innovators. I accept my nomination.

BCLG100
Dec 27, 2005, 01:24 PM
k again to all candidates, why should i vote for you? what makes you better than all the rest. what technology should we research first and why? obviously this depends what civilization we are, in which case what 2 techs would you research first?

Blkbird
Dec 27, 2005, 02:04 PM
k again to all candidates, why should i vote for you? what makes you better than all the rest. what technology should we research first and why? obviously this depends what civilization we are, in which case what 2 techs would you research first?

Your questions are too confused to be answered. If you recognize the dependance of the techs to the civ we choose, what exactly do you want to know?

BCLG100
Dec 27, 2005, 03:06 PM
k ill try and explain better
1)why should i vote for you?
2)what would you bring that no-one else would to the ministry?
3)what tech would you advise we look at first
4) if we already have that tech as we get it as our starting tech what other tech should we research?

Blkbird
Dec 27, 2005, 03:53 PM
k ill try and explain better
1)why should i vote for you?
2)what would you bring that no-one else would to the ministry?
3)what tech would you advise we look at first
4) if we already have that tech as we get it as our starting tech what other tech should we research?

1. Because I have a fair understanding about Techs in Civ4, as is evident through my participation in the Warmup Demogame.
2. I don't know the other candidates that well, you have to do the comparison yourself.
3. It absolutely depends on what civ we'll be playing. There is no "must-have" tech I would research first regardless of what civ we play.
4. See 3.

In my opinion, the idea implied by your question, that we would already have a more or less fixed research plan before the civ question is decided, is rather strange.

BCLG100
Dec 27, 2005, 04:25 PM
well ok, what tech if you were a civ with no traits would you choose to research first?

Blkbird
Dec 27, 2005, 05:02 PM
well ok, what tech if you were a civ with no traits would you choose to research first?

That's an interesting question. However, I prefer not to answer it because I think the hypothesis is irrelevant to the real situation at hand. In my opinion, the civ/leader traits are the single most important factor for the tech development. Therefore, to me your question is equivalent to: "What would you like to eat if you had lost your sense of taste?"

ravensfire
Dec 27, 2005, 05:10 PM
Let me try and ask his question another way -

What opening 3-4 techs would you consider a priority for any civ to have, whether they be the initial techs or researched?

-- Ravensfire

xyourxmomxcorex
Dec 27, 2005, 05:13 PM
I would like to self-nominate:
Heres why:
I have CIV 4.
I have a good understanding of the tech tree.
If i was a CIV that started with no teach tree on a normal continetes/pangea map,
I would go:
(excuse any misspellings)
Agriculture: We need to grow our city quickly, and not have our workers standing by twidling their thumbs.
Msticism next, for culture, and to get closer to founding a realigion.
Weather we went for Mining, Meditaion or polytheism would depend on certain factors:
Buddism is a one shot deal; if we miss, then someone else will probaly found hinduism and judism. I would go for Mediation if we had a likely lead. Polytheism if we were doing okay, cause if we miss then we still have a decent shot at judism.
Mining would be useful for getting masonry and bronze working. Masonry would get us the pryrimids. Bronze working gets us salvery, along with other things, and access to iron working.

TO SUM IT UP:
Much of it would depend on the will of the president. Argiculture is the most important starting tech. To go for realgion, or pryimids would depend on what the president wished, the land, and if barbarians were nerby.

Blkbird
Dec 27, 2005, 05:31 PM
What opening 3-4 techs would you consider a priority for any civ to have, whether they be the initial techs or researched?

There is only one: the Wheel, because Road is always needed right from the start.

Every other starting tech's necessarity depends on the situation:

- Fishing would be a priority if and only if our Capital is coastal (no matter if there is Fish/Cram/Crab near it or not)
- Agriculture would be a priority if and only if our Capital is near a resource that requires Farm or Pasture (which is very likely, but not garanteed)
- Hunting would be a priority if our Capital is near a resource that requires Camp or if building Scout/Spearman/Archer is important for us (which is mostly not a scientific, but a rather military decision)
- Mysticism would be a priority if and only if we are spiritual (in which case we would be already coming with it, and Meditation/Polytheism would be the actual priorities)
- Mining would be a priority if our Capital is near a resource that requires Mine or Quarry, or if we adopt an opening-stage chop-rush policy for our Workers (it's my personal style, but it's generally disputed and therefore subject to furhter discussion).

Mike Lemmer
Dec 27, 2005, 10:00 PM
I'd disagree about The Wheel, Blkbird. Road isn't needed from the start, although it is a valuable early tech. You usually don't need to hook up resources or cities until your city hits the 4-5 pop mark. Before then, actually developing the resources is more important.

I'd recommend a tech-per-resource approach:
-We need either Agriculture or Animal Husbandry, depending on which food resource we have.
-We need Mining to produce hammer-heavy tiles to speed up early production.
-We need either Fishing (lakes) or Pottery (cottages) to generate commerce.

I'd research them in the order we can use resources, with food being the higher priority. Once we can build our capital into a well-balanced location, I'd worry about the higher techs.

xyourxmomxcorex
Dec 27, 2005, 10:10 PM
I'd recommend a tech-per-resource approach:
-We need either Agriculture or Animal Husbandry, depending on which food resource we have.
-We need Mining to produce hammer-heavy tiles to speed up early production.
-We need either Fishing (lakes) or Pottery (cottages) to generate commerce.

Roads dont provide any bouns for the terrian, and workers move 2 sqares, so roads are not important as they were for the town.
Pottery is important too, cottages grow to be very useful over time.

Chieftess
Dec 28, 2005, 04:52 AM
How would you value pottery? In Civ4, a high population is really powerful, especially with some of the civics out there.

Blkbird
Dec 28, 2005, 06:03 AM
Roads do not only connect Resources, they connect cities as well. Unless we want to stick to one single city for a long time, we'll be needing Road very soon. Considering that Pottery also requires the Wheel, it definitely is a must-have tech.

DaveShack
Dec 28, 2005, 08:51 AM
Question for candidates:

How does our civ's starting techs affect the way you'd make decisions about the first 3-4 techs we research? Are you aware of any strategies which follow naturally from certain kinds of starts?

Blkbird
Dec 28, 2005, 09:12 AM
How does our civ's starting techs affect the way you'd make decisions about the first 3-4 techs we research? Are you aware of any strategies which follow naturally from certain kinds of starts?

There are too many possible combinations of starting techs. I don't have any ready-to-go plan for each one of them, I'll make my decision *after* it's certain which starting techs it will be. But the starting tech will definitely have a significant influence on the further progress of tech development.

ravensfire
Dec 28, 2005, 09:29 AM
How would you do that?

-- Ravensfire

Blkbird
Dec 28, 2005, 09:48 AM
How would you do that?

What is "that"?

DaveShack
Dec 28, 2005, 09:52 AM
Another question for candidates:

How would you go about making decisions? This question is aimed mostly at the process you would follow, not on the technical details of what data is needed for the decision.

RoboPig
Dec 28, 2005, 09:55 AM
i have a question:

when aiming for techs, which catergory do you think you will be aiming for the most, military, economic, religious etc.

BCLG100
Dec 28, 2005, 11:23 AM
There is only one: the Wheel, because Road is always needed right from the start.

Every other starting tech's necessarity depends on the situation:

- Fishing would be a priority if and only if our Capital is coastal (no matter if there is Fish/Cram/Crab near it or not)
- Agriculture would be a priority if and only if our Capital is near a resource that requires Farm or Pasture (which is very likely, but not garanteed)
- Hunting would be a priority if our Capital is near a resource that requires Camp or if building Scout/Spearman/Archer is important for us (which is mostly not a scientific, but a rather military decision)
- Mysticism would be a priority if and only if we are spiritual (in which case we would be already coming with it, and Meditation/Polytheism would be the actual priorities)
- Mining would be a priority if our Capital is near a resource that requires Mine or Quarry, or if we adopt an opening-stage chop-rush policy for our Workers (it's my personal style, but it's generally disputed and therefore subject to furhter discussion).

so would the wheel not have been the answer to my question to begin with??? though is anyone other than bilkbird getting involved in the discussion?

ravensfire
Dec 28, 2005, 11:49 AM
What is "that"?

Sorry, I'm not explaining myself too well.

I'm trying to figure out your personal preferences, and you will use those to shape the research path we use. I'd also like to know how you plan to determine that research path, and how you will both seek input from citizens, and strive to guide that discussion.

No offense, but a great many of your answers really haven't helped. You are correct in that it's difficult to speak in detail when you don't know the starting point, but some general points can be made. I haven't gotten much useful information about how you will approach this office.

-- Ravensfire

Blkbird
Dec 28, 2005, 12:16 PM
No offense, but a great many of your answers really haven't helped. You are correct in that it's difficult to speak in detail when you don't know the starting point, but some general points can be made.

You're right, and it's exactly what I am trying to say: I don't have many "general points" to start with. So far I am more familiar with worker techs than with religous techs, but that will only have a very limited influence on my decisions. My strength as I see it lies in my openness and flexibility. I think having too much of a fixed idea (or "general points") before the civ is chosen is a sign of bias and therefore dangerous.

As of handling inputs from citizens, I am very confident that I belong to the most responsive players here. It is my motto (see my record in the Citizen Registry (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=3369578&postcount=152)) to act responsively and explain every action, especially when it's challenged. Besides, am I not the only one answering questions in this thread?

Again and again I've referred to the Warmup Demogame, where I have participated intensively in discussions about Research (among others). If you guys really want to know my preferences, you really should take a look there. I have the impression that some of the questions asked here are already answered by reading my posts there. But I guess it's just too much trouble for most of you...

xyourxmomxcorex
Dec 28, 2005, 05:31 PM
Question for candidates:

How does our civ's starting techs affect the way you'd make decisions about the first 3-4 techs we research? Are you aware of any strategies which follow naturally from certain kinds of starts?
I would need more time to look this up, but if we had mysicism, for example, i would go for it, so we can found a reilgion. If our civ was missing techs for terrian improvment, that would be a priority too.

xyourxmomxcorex
Dec 28, 2005, 05:35 PM
i have a question:

when aiming for techs, which catergory do you think you will be aiming for the most, military, economic, religious etc.
I would aim for improvement Techs and religious techs in the beginning, then move to military techs, and then go more econmic, but that depends on the situation.

Alphawolf
Dec 28, 2005, 06:44 PM
Nominations for Minister of Science are now closed. Please continue any discussion in the Election Poll (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=150544).

-the Wolf

Blkbird
Dec 28, 2005, 07:52 PM
My official campaign platform:

(moved to the election poll thread)

koondrad
Dec 29, 2005, 07:03 PM
Ooops:
Delete me

koondrad
Dec 29, 2005, 07:19 PM
Delete me also

koondrad
Dec 29, 2005, 07:36 PM
Moved to other thread.

Alphawolf
Dec 29, 2005, 07:45 PM
Nominations for Minister of Science are now closed. Please continue any discussion in the Election Poll (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=150544). Check you PMs Koondrad.

-the Wolf

koondrad
Dec 29, 2005, 07:46 PM
Please remove