The no-cheat mode means that the autolog utility won't even get executed. This means that if you're running on a system like mine, where alt+tab switching to another program takes like 30 seconds every time you do it, you can't use a tool to record things. :mad: :wallbash:

So, here's the choice:


Use the no-cheat option but don't get much of agame log from DP's who think it is stupid to spend a couple of hours alt-tabbing back and forth to record everything.
Don't use no-cheat, and get a very good log because the game itself writes everything down for you (provided you have the extra code installed). 3 days, standard options

i think there has to be a certain amount of trust involved

And the link to the discussion is where, DS?

The poll options are worded "biasedly" (Yes, I just made up a word). I'll abstain in protest.

Well if the game logs everything you do, it should be rather obvious if you guys cheat ("4000 BC: Beijing builds Airport"). I didn't know the autologger didn't work with the no-cheat option!

The poll options are worded "biasedly" (Yes, I just made up a word). I'll abstain in protest.

I agree with you here, and instead of making up words, how about we just say it is NOT worded in a neutral fashion as required by custom, and, if ratified, the Code of Laws.

-the Wolf

I voted to have no cheat on because I'm not a great player yet. I want the log so I can learn from everyone how to play better.

I'll offer the viewpoint of a person that has served as a DP in teh Civ3 DG.

By far, the most tedious aspect of being the Designated Player is the log. Right now, we use IRC as the tool to provide that log, recording the results of our actions in rather surprising detail. I would ask everyone to go to the Civ3 DG and look at the last post in some of the instruction threads and read the logs in there.

There's a lot of typing that goes on, plus the delay in switching from Civ 3 to the IRC client. Add in the mental delay required for switching tasks, and the time adds up.

Some DP's are fortunate enough to have access to two computers. Others, such as myself, have a dual-monitor system. Most, however, have one computer, one monitor.

The more onerous the time required to be a DP, the fewer people will be willing to be designated players.

EDIT: And I will agree that DS could have used less, umm, inflammitory, language! I suspect this was posted after realizing that two laudable goals are apparently mutually exclusive.

-- Ravensfire

I recently upgraded my computer (and spent $1300 in the process), so it only takes me about 1 or 2 seconds to alt-tab out of the game. However, I still think it would be extremely tedious to have to type everything out, would take much longer to do so, and some crucial details might accidentally get left out.

I guess we'll just have to trust ourselves until we can have the best of both worlds.

I hereby officially challenge the legality of this poll, and pre-announce my request for a judiciary review as soon as the Judiciary Branch of our Government is set up and ready for business.

I hereby officially challenge the legality of this poll, and pre-announce my request for a judiciary review as soon as the Judiciary Branch of our Government is set up and ready for business.

On what grounds? I will not pre-judge the case, but will point out that the usual legal standard is the law which exists when an event occurs. Is there any legal requirement which was not met as of the time the poll was opened?

Alternatively if you think there is a way to address your concern before the elections are over, then we won't have to hold up the game start until this issue is resolved. ;) :nudge:

EDIT: And I will agree that DS could have used less, umm, inflammitory, language! I suspect this was posted after realizing that two laudable goals are apparently mutually exclusive.
Exactly! I can't repeat the actual language that I used very quietly (the kids rooms are right next door) because the censor would * it out anyway and then a mod would come along and :nono: me. The timeline kinda went like this:
Think about ignoring Chieftess's remark about the no cheat mode, and not even polling it
Figure that ignoring CT when she's using pseudo-mod voice will be as unproductive as ever. speaking with mod type authority on a subject which doesn't fall within mod jurisdiction, such as in-game options ;)
Post the poll
Realize what no cheat probably does, post the "OMG this will probably have to be redone" addendum to the first poll
Some time passes (too much time, and something like 20 people vote)
Actually test no cheat and find it's even worse than I feared and apparently nothing in the custom assets folder gets run
Engage in a little creative cursing of game programmers who take the reasonable and straightforward but very painful approach of considering everything added to be cheating, and at myself for not pulling the plug on the 1st poll sooner.
Open this poll while still too far gone into frustration mode to do it right

Editorials aside, I'm glad you posted this poll, DaveShack, because otherwise I woud have never known that no-cheat doesn't allow the autologger (I don't use it because I have two computers).

Give me convenience or give me death - Jello Biafra

In this case we will get both. :( While prospective DPs clamor for their lives to be made easier, we cannot forget that by leaving the game open for "cheating," it will become an option for anyone who decides to open the save. Do we really want to leave this game open for the wayward sabateur? Do we really want to be left with no legal recourse against the uni-brow who suddenly becomes a sage due to our misplaced lenience? Me neither.

The fact that this poll is so wrongly worded only adds to my disappointment, as we once against throw common sense out the window to appease the Warm Tummy Fuzzies. :lol: Good thing for the draftor that no polling standards are ratified yet....smart! :goodjob:

Not to go too far off topic DZ, but which Monday will you continue the cage match and how long do you usually have to wait between when you can use your Warm Tummy Fuzzies, catch phrase. :groucho:

Warm Tummy Fuzzies has almost convinced me to vote for you. :lol:

-the Wolf

On what grounds? I will not pre-judge the case, but will point out that the usual legal standard is the law which exists when an event occurs. Is there any legal requirement which was not met as of the time the poll was opened?

You have a point here. Besides, I just realized the Judiciary Review Board is most likely going to be led by nobody else than *you* (Duh!) - I've even voted for you as the Chief Justice myself (and I still would, nonetheless).

Alternatively if you think there is a way to address your concern before the elections are over, then we won't have to hold up the game start until this issue is resolved. ;) :nudge:

In this case, I suggest setting up a new poll, using neutral language for the options this time.

In this case, I suggest setting up a new poll, using neutral language for the options this time.

I would not object if someone opened a new poll. This doesn't mean I don't want to do it myself, it's as much a measure of whether you're indignant about the result itself and really want it overturned, or if you're just making a statement about methods and process.

I would not object if someone opened a new poll. This doesn't mean I don't want to do it myself, it's as much a measure of whether you're indignant about the result itself and really want it overturned, or if you're just making a statement about methods and process.

In this case, I do want the result overturned. So if there is no objections, I will be opening up a new poll soon.

Dont think it really matters tbh but in the interests of democracy go for it.

New poll has been set up here:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=150804