MadV3.1- Mao's Military Mayhem! [Archive] - Civilization Fanatics' Forums

Corbeau

Dec 30, 2005, 03:58 PM

Well, I played 10 turns. We have copper available... sort of. Plus there's another development. Anyway, the turnlog:

Turn 0: Empire looks good, though perhaps I should say "city-state." Of course, that's what ya get in prehistory. We have a solid garrison and a patrol warrior, plus a scout in the northeast. Hit enter.

Turn 1: Bronze Working in. I pick hunting next, both for later camps and because Archers wouldn't hurt. The only source of copper we can see is in the frozen northern wastes.

http://home.comcast.net/~corbeaubm/Corb_Mao_Copper.jpg

I decide to scout for an alternate. Plus there's always horses to the east.

Turn 2: There are a ton of animals in the north. Our scout tries to evade them.

Turn 3: Our scout partially fails, but kills the attacking wolves without much trouble. We continue scouting.

Turn 4: Absolutely nothing. Move scouting units around and hit enter.

Turn 5: Hunting is discovered, and Archery is up next. But even more importantly, a Roman Scout shows up on our borders from the northwest. War! Not the neighbor I want to be facing in war, though. Ugh.

Turn 6: Buddhism is FIADL. Our scout runs into more wolves to the west.

Turn 7: Our Scout on a wooded hill pw0nz0rz the wolves and earns a Woodsman I promotion.

Turn 8: That Roman Scout is still running around up north. Nothing going on yet though.

Turn 9: Beijing grows, and our warrior to the southwest reports distance contact with Ceasar's military!

http://home.comcast.net/~corbeaubm/Corb_Mao_JuliMilitary.jpg

Looks like he's southwest of us, since our northern scout hasn't run into him yet.

Turn 10: Ceasar won't come off his hill. Archery is in, and I finally pick Iron Working (maybe I should have gone with this right off after Bronze Working, I don't know). Barracks should complete in a turn or two. Enclosed here is a map of our discoveries in the northwest, though they do not include copper.

http://home.comcast.net/~corbeaubm/Corb_Mao_NorthWestScout.jpg

My personal opinion would be to build a couple barracks-trained Archers and take the war to Ceasar. Pillage all the mines we can find to prevent him getting Iron. Archers with the Drill promotion are absolutely murder in open-field warfare, and I'm a big fan of them. Techwise, we should probably beeline for Machinery if we have Iron available. I hear that Chu-Ko-Nu are great against Praetorian stacks.

Anyway, here's the save:

madviking

Dec 30, 2005, 04:02 PM

Roster:
Madviking- ...
Corbeau- just played
Jeff1787- UP
IamSid- out til 1/3/06
jameson- on deck
CoolioVonHoolio- in the hole

Argh... Caesar is the last person I wanted to have on my island, yeah, try to pillage the iron sources near him, the AI will be crippled if yo put a archer on a hill and forifiy it. The AI will go bonkers and build military and try to kill your archer, but they get killed and you get free promos. (As seen in Handy 25)

Jeff1787

Dec 30, 2005, 06:10 PM

Beijing finishes: Barracks

Turn 32 (2720 BC)
Beijing begins: Archer

Turn 33 (2680 BC)
Warrior defeats (1.70/2): Barbarian Panther

Turn 34 (2640 BC)

Turn 35 (2600 BC)

Turn 36 (2560 BC)
Warrior defeats (1.04/2): Roman Warrior
The Roman moved off of the hill. Since our warrior was on a hill, I took a chance and attacked him....:goodjob:
Scout defeats (0.83/1): Barbarian Lion
Scout defeats (0.83/1): Barbarian Wolf
Our scout got two for the price of one.

Turn 37 (2520 BC)
Beijing finishes: Archer

Our scout found the Romans....:D

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/MADV3_2520.JPG

Turn 38 (2480 BC)
Beijing begins: Archer
Archer promoted: Drill I

Turn 39 (2440 BC)
Beijing grows: 5

Turn 40 (2400 BC)

Turn 41 (2360 BC)

Our scout is facing a lion!!!

Our warrior is still licking his wounds.

Archer is moving toward Rome.

Here is the save:

Roster:
Madviking- in the hole
Corbeau-
Jeff1787- just played
IamSid- out til 1/3/06
jameson- UP
CoolioVonHoolio- on deck

jameson

Dec 30, 2005, 06:15 PM

Got it ! ( ten characters)

Jeff1787

Dec 30, 2005, 06:31 PM

Also, the Roman scout went south...

jameson

Dec 31, 2005, 05:31 AM

2360 BC (inherited turn) Lion attacks and promotes our scout to Woodsman II

2320 BC (1) Roman scout appears on our borders. Drill-promoted archer heads West towards Rome.

2240 BC (3) Beijing completes Archer, starts worker. The archer will scout around Beijing for a bit just in case there's another civ to our Southeast.

2040 BC (8) Iron working comes in, research set to wheel. We have iron near Beijing:

http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/6255/madviron4wd.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

2000 BC (9) Our Scout on a hill defends against a bear.

1960 BC (10) Romans found Antium (on a hill) and will have access to Iron too.

http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/8322/madvantium1lr.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Our Southern warrior is still scouting around. It's got two promotions available, probably not a bad idea to turn him into a woodsman now that I think of it.
A worker's due next turn, I recommend building 2 more archers and then a settler. We're not going to take Antium with anything less than swords ( and even that will be painful), our archer in the area could just go around it and harass Rome. I withdrew the Scout since it can't attack anyway.

And the save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/MadV3_BC-1960.Civ4SavedGame).

madviking

Dec 31, 2005, 07:50 AM

See if you can put the scout or archer on that iron to block it.

Coolio is up
Im next

madviking

Jan 01, 2006, 08:04 AM

OK, it is past the 24/48 rule.

I got it.

CoolioVonHoolio

Jan 01, 2006, 05:27 PM

sorry i was at my cousins house all weekend for new years...

temmage

Jan 02, 2006, 12:52 AM

Hey, if you guys are still open, I would like to join. I'm a decent noble/prince player though I dont have any SG experience yet. Thanks!

madviking

Jan 02, 2006, 07:31 AM

Sorry, man. :(
I are full and +1 here. But you can lurk here.

IamSid

Jan 02, 2006, 01:16 PM

Temmage take my spot.

madviking

Jan 02, 2006, 01:38 PM

OK,
I play it tonight...

temmage

Jan 02, 2006, 02:55 PM

Temmage take my spot.

I can be your alternate until you decide to return if you're busy somewhere else or in RL.

IamSid

Jan 02, 2006, 06:13 PM

I have to much to do so you can do it.

temmage

Jan 02, 2006, 09:40 PM

Hey thanks, I appreciate it!

Corbeau

Jan 04, 2006, 04:03 PM

OK,
I play it tonight...

So, uh, what's up? This thread has been completely dead for two days. :(

madviking

Jan 04, 2006, 04:22 PM

Yeah, i'll need a swap. RL and HW have swamped me...

jameson

Jan 04, 2006, 04:37 PM

A roster update might be handy what with all the skips/swaps and new additions. Maybe temmage should pick it up next ?

madviking

Jan 04, 2006, 04:58 PM

ok, temmage is up. :)

temmage

Jan 05, 2006, 01:41 AM

Got it. Will have it within a few hours if not tommorrow (Thursday, GMT -8).

Heres the roster from what I gathered (correct me if I'm wrong):

jameson- Played
CoolioVonHoolio- Skipped
Madviking- Skipped
temmage- Up
Corbeau- On deck
Jeff1787-

temmage

Jan 05, 2006, 03:49 AM

Turn 1(1920 BC)
Archer attacked by lions but survives.
Worker finishes at Beijing. Starting on an archer.
Upgrade archer to Drill 2. Set to heal (3 turns).
Warrior explores southeast.

Turn 2(1880 BC)
Scout explores north of Antium.
Warrior explores southeast.
Worker set to build mine.

Turn 3 (1840 BC)
Warrior attacked by panther but survives.
The Wheel is researched. Research set to Pottery.
Warrior explore southeast. Pops a goody hut and gets another warrior.
Scout explores north.

Turn 4 (1800 BC)
Warrior attacked by panther but survives.
Warriors explore southeast.
Scout explores north.
Archer moved to forest next to Antium to fortify.

Turn 5 (1760 BC)
Scout explores north while dodging bear.
Warriors explore southeast.
Beijing grows to size 6. Happiness is maxed so MM to stagnant growth.

Turn 6 (1720 BC)
Archer finishes in Beijing.
Worker finishes mine. Begins on road to link iron to city.
Scout explores north.
Warriors explore southeast.

Turn 7 (1680 BC)
Scout fortifies on Hill Forest because of nearby wolf.
Warriors explore east.

Turn 8 (1640 BC)
Caesar’s scouts spotted on our northeastern borders!?:confused:
Scout defines against wolf and survives.
Warriors explore east.

Turn 9 (1600 BC)
Warriors explore east. One warrior pops goody hut and nets yet another warrior.:goodjob:
Worker finishes road. Begins another leading to iron.

Turn 10 (1560 BC)
Pottery is researched. Research begins on Mysticism.
Warriors explore some more.
Worker at Beijing done in two turns.

After Turn Comments:

-Economically, our cities are doing fine. Beijing has great growth and production pontential although the +2 unhealthiness from the flood plains will be a pain.

-I marked two spots for potential cities. The first spot has access to flood plains, sheep, and corn for growth while nearby hills and forests for production. The second spot, while not having access to any food resources, nets us horses. The priority of the second spot varies depending on whether we want horse archers.

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/5073/01cityplacement4rr.jpg

-Caesar should be a high priority on our “to-kill” list. First, his UU, the Praetorian gives him a distinct advantage over us as it can easily overpower any units we can produce. (An axemen with Combat I would barely match a Praetorian without promotions.) Second, he has a source of iron.

-Our short terms goals are to get a second city established and start producing our army to attack Caesar.

-Sitting ducks…:D

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/6682/02sittingducks4bs.jpg

EDIT: Forgot to attached save. :mischief:

Corbeau

Jan 05, 2006, 01:59 PM

Oh, hey, I'm next on the roster. Didn't notice that. Guess that this is a "got it" then.

Corbeau

Jan 05, 2006, 04:28 PM

temmage

Jan 05, 2006, 07:32 PM

Took a look at the save, though I'm not ready to play it yet. I have a few comments/questions:

1) Why mysticism? I don't have any alternate research in mind, but I'd just like to understand your thinking before I play.

2) Our new city may not get quick border expansion. With this in mind, I think moving the grownth/prod city site one tile north may be better. It would put it on the river for extra health, avoid wasting a forest tile, and give us a second food resource right off the bat. The downside is that it misses a potential quarry, but our next city to the east could easily claim and work that tile anyway.

3) As I see it, we can either rush Ceasar by trying to beeline to cats (unlikely, IMO) or try to contain and out-tech Ceasar while denying him iron for as long as possible. I'm a fan of the latter approach, so I'm thinking of trying to occupy Ceasar's iron tile. Thoughts?

1) Mysticism would give us access to Obelisk which we need in our second city to help expand its borders. At +1 culture/turn, the city will expand in 10 turns.

2) Thats also a good option. The reason I choose my location is because I wanted to avoid +2 unhealthiness from being on flood plains and to have as many hills within city range as possible. It's up to you though and I think both choices have their advantages and drawbacks.

3) I agree with the latter strategy as probably being better only if we are alone with Caesar on the continent. If there is someone to the east, we should seriously consider our options before commiting to this strategy. Denying Caesar iron would be costly in terms of the military and city maintenance costs that we would have to dedicate to the task. Also, I would like to point out that there is another iron deposit north of Antinum; we would also have to deny him that one.

Corbeau

Jan 07, 2006, 12:53 PM

Okay, I'll play it today. On tech, I'd like to point out that it seems we have two eventual goals: Calendar and Machinery. Machinery would be amazing, since it brings both our UU and watermills, which would be huge considering the amount of flood plains we have. Mysticism is cheap though, so it's not like it delays us much at all.

Also, it won't come up in my turns, but I thought settling ON fresh water gave +2 health and flood plains gave their unhealthyness when they're in the city fat cross.

jameson

Jan 07, 2006, 01:04 PM

Agree with going for mysticism and growth first, but I'd send lone archers to both iron deposits anyway just to have advance warning of when we should start to worry :).

Corbeau

Jan 07, 2006, 06:38 PM

Well, after all that wait I'm afraid that I have little to show for it. My turnset was not impressive in the least. If Iron is the measure, we should start worrying. Not that we'll get much warning now... :(

T0:
Our city looks fine, with a Worker to finish in two turns. Our research is too slow at the moment to take a direct shot at anything expensive, so I think expansion is our number one priority. Ceasar has also placed Antium very well from a military perspective: our footsoldiers cannot get by without walking into the flatlands next to the city, which is probably suicide. That means denying him Iron will be very, very tricky. Still, more information would help on this decision. Thus, I wake our scout up and move him west.

T1:
Continue moving. Our eastern Warriors discover a Barbarian Warrior.

T2:
Barbarian Warrior tries to attack our Warrior that's across the river and in the trees. We win handily, and our Warrior is promoted to Combat I. Beijing completes Worker and starts on Settler, since it's apparent that we'll need more commerce and thus more cities as quickly as possible. Send out part of the Beijing garrison of four units to fogbust. Our Workers either start on a cottage or head towards our corn plot to build a farm, since we don't need iron quite yet and our iron plot is not workable by Beijing. Finally, our eastern Warriors discover the end of the world (well, as far as they know - we know that it's just the end of the continent ;) ).

T3:
Our Scout gets ready to make the dash past Antium. A Barbarian Warrior appears to the SW of Beijing, and I move part of the garrison in its direction. We pop gold from a SE goody hut. There are some nice resources out there.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/MADV3_1_RpB_NiceResources.jpg

T4:
Mysticism is in, and I pick Writing next. I think that we need a better research pace if we're going to obtain our UU before getting run over by Praetorians. Ceasar sends a Warrior after our Scout, but we run right by him.

T5:
Uh oh. Ceasar has already settled by his Iron tile.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/MADV3_1_RpB_IronCity.jpg

If Antium's placement didn't already do it, this basically shoots any last vestages of hope for actually denying him Iron. Incidentally, this means Ceasar is also ahead of us by at least two cities. Time to expand and tech up, I think. Oh, and Barbarians appear to the NE of Beijing.

T6:
Out Scout is keeping a step ahead of the Romans, but it won't last. Ceasar has Chariots. Yet another bad sign.

T7:
Move our western Drill II Archer to a better vantage point near Antium (the hill - better vision, but should be same defense if we get time to fortify).

T8:
Ceasar doesn't want to give us that time. I gamble and fortify anyway. We should have no problems killing the Chariot, but it all depends on if Ceasar gets lucky with the accompanying Warrior. I also make a risky scout move that locates Rome but basically guarentees that he'll get whacked.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/MADV3_1_RpB_Rome.jpg

T9:
Well, Ceasar's Chariot does just enough damage for the Warriors to finish off our Archer. I have lost my gamble. Plus our Scout does indeed get whacked. That means we have no units in the west. My bad, though Ceasar could probably have gotten the same results a bit later with a couple more units (not like we could outrun chariots while on foot :( ). The only good thing this turn is that I finally corner and nail Ceasar's eastern Scout.

T10:
Nothing. Both workers finish their tasks. I haven't touched 'em, so the next player gets to choose what to do next.

In total, I made some military moves that were... suboptimal. :smoke: Still, I don't think it means that much on the strategic scale. We can't rush Ceasar, and we can't really contain him. We can only try to out-expand and out-research him, and eventually out-military him. The next player gets to begin the expansion era for China, as our Settler will be done in a couple turns. In research, Writing should also be done soon. We may want to pick up Masonry soon if we settle near a spot that can work a quarry. Getting some scouts out west also matters, since we currently don't have any (you can blame me for that one).

We do, at least, have a fairly good idea of where Ceasar is in his development.

Corbeau

Jan 07, 2006, 06:42 PM

Strange. It doesn't seem to have uploaded the save. Second try:

temmage

Jan 08, 2006, 01:00 AM

Hmm, it seems like we have to decide which road we should take. We could try to out-expand and out-tech Caesar in hopes of getting our UU and other stronger military units to fight Caesar or we could attempt to build a military right now and take him out before he poses a further threat. Any thoughts on this?

EDIT: I would like to add some more thoughts on what I mean by those two strategies. Of course, this is just a rough outline and will change according to what our SG thinks should be done.

"Expansion strategy": Quick expansion to four or five cities with half specializing in production and half specializing in research. Tech to machinery and other techs to get our UU, macemen, longbow, and knight.

"Military strategy": Get our second city and pump axe with the aim of overpowering antinum and his iron producing city. If Caesar cannot be defeated, secondary goal would be to check any further expansion out of his pennisula.

===
jameson- Next
CoolioVonHoolio-
Madviking-
temmage-
Corbeau- Played
Jeff1787- Up
===

When you do a turnset, please remember to place the turnset schedule at the end of your report as a convenience for the next player.

Jeff1787

Jan 08, 2006, 11:53 AM

I probably won't get to my turns until tomorrow.....

Jeff1787

Jan 09, 2006, 01:38 PM

Before turn:
I had the worker start on a mine to hook-up iron and the other worker began a road to our potential new city.
Judaism founded in a distant land

Turn 72 (1120 BC)
Warrior defeats (1.62/2): Barbarian Warrior
Tech learned: Writing
Beijing finishes: Settler

Turn 73 (1080 BC)
Research begun: Horseback Riding
Beijing begins: Archer

Turn 74 (1040 BC)

Turn 75 (1000 BC)
Warrior defeats (1.24/2): Barbarian Warrior

Turn 76 (975 BC)
Shanghai founded
Shanghai begins: Barracks
Beijing grows: 7
Archer defeats (2.43/3): Barbarian Archer
Warrior defeats (0.50/2): Barbarian Warrior

Turn 77 (950 BC)
Archer promoted: Guerilla II
Beijing finishes: Archer

Turn 78 (925 BC)
Beijing begins: Settler
Archer promoted: Guerilla I

Turn 79 (900 BC)

Turn 80 (875 BC)

Turn 80 (875 BC)

Turn 81 (850 BC)

I messed up because now Beijing has one unhappy citizen.

I began horseback riding. I recall Madviking wanted it early on. Also, our new city will have horses. I figure we will need horse archers.

My thought is to have the two archers fortify on hills near Caesar to keep an eye on him:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/MadV3_BC-850.JPG

jameson- UP
CoolioVonHoolio- on deck
Madviking-
temmage-
Corbeau-
Jeff1787- just played

Here is the save:

Jeff1787

Jan 09, 2006, 01:53 PM

Here are some stats:

Research: Horseback riding in 7

Cities:

Beijing has population 7
Beijing producing settler in 7

Shanghai has population 1
Shanghai growing in 17
Shanghai producing barracks in 15

Units:

2 workers
3 archers
5 warriiors

I think we should put the a city on the blue dot in order to get the deer and wine:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/MadV3..next_city.JPG

Jeff1787

Jan 09, 2006, 01:58 PM

The world as we know it:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/MadV3..world.JPG

CoolioVonHoolio

Jan 10, 2006, 07:33 AM

so jameson is up now right? i dont wanna miss my turn again.

Mahatmajon

Jan 10, 2006, 03:34 PM

lurker's comment: I was surprised with the initial move East for Beijing. I've taken STRONGLY to agreeing with the computer's initial spots since it "knows" when you will have horses/iron/oil/uranium. I would have bet that hill was going to have copper or iron.

It works out fine, though because your actual Beijing location is just as good and you have other good places for future cities, but it's interesting to see how the recommended location is often a better thing to follow than planned dotmaps which only show current known resources.

0- move settler one east, found Beijing, start on Animal

2040 BC (8) Iron working comes in, research set to wheel. We have iron near Beijing:

Jeff1787

Jan 10, 2006, 03:57 PM

Are you sure that the computer knows future locations??

jameson

Jan 10, 2006, 05:43 PM

Sorry about the late got it, but I completely missed Jeff's post.

Will play tomorrow ( way past my bedtime now)

jameson

Jan 11, 2006, 02:06 PM

Inherited turn: I see no reason not to revolt to Slavery. I don't have a good handle on the power of whipping yet, but I'm certain it could come in handy given the amounts of food Beijing and our likely third city will have available.

825 BC (1) Spot a barb warrior, move an archer towards it.

The barb promotes our archer. It's already got a hillsman promotion; on balance, I think I'd have preferred a Drill promotion for our first strike but it'll serve well for Caesar watch so Hills II it is.

800 BC (2) Warrior in the SE runs into a barb archer.

R.I.P our brave but foolish warrior :(

775 BC (3) Whip Rome for the settler to save five turns on construction. I have the Beijing worker start on a farm for more people power, later on I think I should have mined a hill instead when I look at its production capacity ( 12 turns for a sword :eek: ).

750 BC (4) Complete the settler, an archer in two is next with the overflow shields. I got a sneaking suspicion that we'll want more antibarb patrols soon.

I agree with Jeff1787 on the placement of city #3 on the floodplains; food isn't an issue for that precise city spot, production is. Founding on the plains hill would waste 3 hammers there.

700 BC (6) Beijing finishes archer, starts a worker. We should get a few of these ready while we still can and the Roman war remains phony. No use siccing Beijing on 12 turns of building a sword or an axe if there's no immediate use for them ( And for the same reason, I'd probably have avoided horseback riding too and gone for masonry instead. But then, I'm also still learning).

675 BC (7) Found Guangzhou on Jeff1787's blue dot. Set it to building a granary, which looks like it will take forever, but can probably be whipped at some point. Beijing and Shanghai can provide the garrison.

650 BC (8) Stonehenge is built in a distant land.

625 BC (9) The archer which I initially sent as a garrison for Shanghai after encountering a barb archer in the area should probably scout for them instead, the warrior can stay behind.
A warrior to the SW of Beijing is attacked by a barb warrior (I promote him to combat I en route to a shock promotion later)

It looks like the Romans founded a fourth city:

http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/7264/mvnewcity8bf.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

They aren't just sure to go after us with Praets, they're also outexpanding us at this point !

600 BC (10) A Roman spear emerges from Antium, and our SE archer runs into a barb.
Masonry comes in, research provisionally set to Poly in 4 as it's on the way to CoL and courts, which we are sure to need. Feel free to change :).

Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/MadV3_BC-0600.Civ4SavedGame).

jameson

Jan 11, 2006, 02:10 PM

CoolioVonHoolio

Jan 12, 2006, 07:59 PM

ok i got it and will play tommorow at liek 3-5

mutax2003

Jan 12, 2006, 08:33 PM

I say take out or cripple Romans as soon as possible, or at least deny them iron. Otherwise you will be in a bit of trouble when he get praetorians.

Corbeau

Jan 12, 2006, 08:41 PM

Yup. Our problem is that we lack a way to actually do it before he gets Praetorians. :(

I think we may have to weather the storm.

CoolioVonHoolio

Jan 13, 2006, 07:47 PM

ummmm.... where do i put the patch.... if i dont get the answer in 45 minutes i wont be able to play this weekend. (im going out tonight, and then im with my dad all weekend.)

temmage

Jan 14, 2006, 01:15 AM

The roster:
CoolioVonHoolio
Madviking- <---- UP
temmage- <----- On deck
Corbeau-
Jeff1787-
jameson- just played

madviking

Jan 14, 2006, 06:45 AM

OK, I got the save.

CoolioVonHoolio

Jan 16, 2006, 11:30 AM

is anyone gonna tell me how to update civ4 cs i cant play till then

madviking

Jan 16, 2006, 11:38 AM

Go to Advanced -> Check for Updates, download patch, do the stuff.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Rough turnlog- Rome has Praes...
We lost a city not to the Romans but the barbs, an axeman.
He need more defense to combat barbs and Romans.

>>Save<< (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/MadV3_BC-0350.Civ4SavedGame)

madviking

Jan 16, 2006, 05:29 PM

The roster:
CoolioVonHoolio
Madviking- just played
temmage-<----- UP
Corbeau- <---- on deck
Jeff1787-
jameson-

temmage

Jan 16, 2006, 07:09 PM

I'm going to have to sideline this as I have too much to do in RL at the moment. :(

The roster:
CoolioVonHoolio
Madviking- just played
Corbeau-<----- UP
Jeff1787- <---- on deck
jameson-

jameson

Jan 17, 2006, 05:40 AM

Madviking, it might be useful to know which city we lost exactly ! I know there's not much to log in the early game, but this seems to me to be among the more pertinent bits of information to pass on ...

Jeff1787

Jan 17, 2006, 11:27 AM

I agree, the interest in this SG is very very low. We are losing players and the posts are lacking....:confused:

Mahatmajon

Jan 17, 2006, 01:12 PM

By the way, as far as I know, the AI never knew resource locations; it did know tile yields, which did figure for city placement decision calculations. AFAIK this was changed in 1.52.

lurker's comment: yeah, that's how I understand it. It doesn't know the resource that you'll get, but it knows that the tile will (eventually) have a higher yield. Between 'knowing' eventual yields of tiles and the map/generator putting starting cities near resources I've found that whenever I seem to be lacking starting resources at the starting spot it's almost assured to get horses/copper/iron or multiple instances of these.

Corbeau

Jan 17, 2006, 01:41 PM

Oy, I'm up. Well, maybe it'll provide a useful break from the assignment that I should be doing...

madviking

Jan 17, 2006, 05:07 PM

Sorry, I did play but I was about to leave and go do something. So, I made the log short, I have interst in this game still. :)

Corbeau

Jan 17, 2006, 06:13 PM

Okay, here's my report. We now have a military, but we'll probably need it in the next few turnsets.

T0:
Hmm, some good and some bad since I last reigned in Beijing. We have settled two new cities, but lost one of them to the barbarians. Worse, we have two barbarian axemen romping over the outskirts of Beijing. Change Beijing from sword to axe. We have absolutely no reason to build a swordsman at this point. My objective for this turnset is to stabilize, build a military, and push the barbs back.

T1:
Warior on a hill kills a barbarian warrior in the southeast. Shanghai: horse archer -> axe. Send our new horse archer towards Beijing to help deal with the barbarian menace. One worker begins a chop at Beijing, the other goes south to begin some chopping for Shanghai (we badly need the production in both cities). The barbarians are in prime position to pillage our cottages (now hamlets & villages). This could get ugly.

T2:
A barbarian axe attacks Beijing instead of going for the cottages. One of our archers barely kills him and is promoted to City Defender II. The other axe goes for our iron. Not good. Gambling time: I send our unhurt archer from Beijing onto the open flood plains next to the barbarian, and move our horse archer into position to attack next turn. If we're lucky, the barb won't pillage our mine.

T3:
The Barbarian goes for our archer, and unfortunately wins flawlessly. Ouch. If the horse archer loses, we can kiss practically all our improvements goodbye. Promote to Combat I and attack with horse archer.

We win flawlessly. Whew. The odds were very good, but I don't want to think about how this could have gone downhill if we lost the fight. Our iron is saved, at the cost of an archer. The next target is Guangzhou, once it grows to size 2.

T4:
Beijing: axe -> axe (what can I say? they work). Barb axe appears to the south of Shanghai, so I send our horse archer south just in case. Begin refarming our rice and building more mines for Beijing.

T5:
Our archer on a wooded hill demolishes the axe near Shanghai. Nice position there. Shanghai: axe -> axe. Beijing: axe -> axe (quick production because of chops). Barb warrior appears next to our iron, so I send out two axes from Beijing to make sure of him (there is no such thing as overkill :mischief: ).

T6:
Splatter the warrior after he moves onto our iron tile. There's a new barb city out there just to the west of our iron. Nicely placed, too: it gets a sheep, rice, deer, and three wines. We should nab it once it gets to size 2.

T7:
Barb axe appears in the south. Move troops around to compensate.

T8:
Alphabet is in. Honestly, I don't know why we're researching it. It's not like we're going to be trading techs with anyone, and I really don't think we can spare the production to rush for the Great Library (especially since we lack marble!). We do need more happiness though. Set course for mathmatics, and hopefully calendar after that. Shanghai: axe -> archer. Guangzhou has popped to size 2, so it's time to ready the attack force.

T9:
Our axe on a wooded hill kills a barbarian axe in the south. Shanghai: archer -> horse archer (mmm, tasty chopping). Oh, it looks like Ceasar will raze Hun (the city near our iron). He has an axe and chariot next to the city, which is defended by two archers. Mobilize our forces and head for Guangzhou.

T10:
Ceasar attacks with his axe and wins, but holds back his chariot. He'll probably either finish it next turn or retreat, I guess. Kill a barb warrior with an axe on the way to Guangzhou. The next player should have no problems taking Guangzhou, by the way. It's defended by an axe and a warrior, while we have three axes and a horse archer headed its way (all with promotions available). One thing to strongly consider would be to chop the forest on our silk tile next to Beijing to rush a library. We need all the research speed that we can get, plus we'll have to chop the forest anyway once we can place a plantation.

Oh, and for the really good news, the next player may get to deal with Praetorians. Our sentries can see some in Antium.

Sorry for the lack of pictures. I took some, but I need to move on to some non-optional tasks. Sorry. Here's the save:

Jeff1787

Jan 17, 2006, 10:46 PM

Turn 111 (100 BC)

Turn 112 (75 BC)
Rome destroyed the barbarian city to our N/W.
Beijing finishes: Swordsman
Archer defeats (3.00/3): Roman Chariot

Turn 113 (50 BC)
Horse Archer defeats (1.68/6): Barbarian Axeman

Turn 114 (25 BC)
Axeman defeats (3.35/5): Barbarian Warrior
Captured Guangzhou (Barbarian)
We now have a new city!!!!!!!!
Axeman defeats (5.00/5): Roman Chariot

Turn 115 (0 AD)

Turn 116 (25 AD)
Beijing finishes: Settler
Shanghai finishes: Horse Archer

Turn 117 (50 AD)
Beijing begins: Granary
Shanghai begins: Granary
Guangzhou begins: Granary
We need some infrastructure...but we also need military...not a good situation.
Archer defeats (3.00/3): Barbarian Warrior

Turn 118 (75 AD)

Turn 119 (100 AD)
Archer defeats (1.62/3): Roman Spearman
I figured there was no way we could win against the Praetorian, so I attacked. At least we got a worker.
Tech learned: Mathematics
Archer loses to: Roman Praetorian (8.00/8)
Confucianism founded in a distant land

Turn 120 (125 AD)
Research begun: Metal Casting
Horse Archer defeats (6.00/6): Barbarian Warrior
Nanjing founded
I'm not sure I like the location, but we need to cut off the Romans.
Nanjing begins: Obelisk

I think we can contain the Romans...at least we need to make it hard for them to expand.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/MadV3-125.JPG

The roster:
CoolioVonHoolio
Madviking
Corbeau
Jeff1787- just played
jameson-<----- UP

Jeff1787

Jan 17, 2006, 10:49 PM

The save:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/MadV3_AD-0125.Civ4SavedGame

jameson

Jan 17, 2006, 11:25 PM

Got it, will play in 12-16 hours.

jameson

Jan 18, 2006, 01:56 PM

Inherited turn: I don't like what I'm seeing around Antium:

http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/5015/madpraets9bx.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

150 AD (1) Praetorian moves towards the hills archer, a barb axe appears near Beijing where we have no troops close to stop him (we may lose a village as a result), an additional axe approaches Guangzhou and a, fortunately empty, Roman galley shows up near Shanghai.
Mayhem we asked for, mayhem we got.

Frankly I don't like the location of Nanjing much either. Jeff1787's original yellow dot ( which spot was also marked by madviking - with an X... ;) ) would have been a much stronger and more defensible city for us. The original yellow dot had open country, Nanjing's got forests to its West, read cover for Praets. Yellow dot would also have had a native hills defense bonus as well as access to flood plains, rice, sheep, wines and iron for production.

Come to think of it, I suggest we settle it anyway once feasible :).

IT the Praet dispatches our archer losing three health, the barb axe at Guangzhou dies

175 AD (2) Our Shock-promoted axe charges uphill and kills the Praet without taking casualties. Horse archer near Beijing scrambles to intercept the barb, Beijing itself is also switched to axe temporarily.

IT Barb axe at Beijing crosses the river and dies to horse without doing damage.

200 AD (3) Axe and sword take position on hill near Antium. Still 2 Praets there as well as an axe and spears. We need more troops in the area.

225 AD (4) Retreat worker into Nanjng from scouting Roman chariot

IT The unpromoted chariot attacks Nanjing and kills a city raider II axe :mad:. Fortunately I kept another axe in town.
I think we need more units with combat promotions before we start thinking about city assault troops, though this particular combat was against the odds.

A barb archer shows up next to Beijing.

250 AD (5) Workers work on the road from Beijing towards Antium.

IT yet more barbs show up

275 AD (6) And yet another barb axe shows up SW of Beijing. So far the barbs are more dangerous than the Romans... Famous last words !

300 AD (7) I misclick and our 10XP horse archer ( which I was busy retreating from scouting the tundra wastes to the North of Guangzhou ) ends up on a deer forest which I thought was open country between a barb warrior and axe :smoke:

IT The axe bought it but the warrior finishes off our horsemen

325 AD (8) Withdraw our workers from works around Nanjing to improve Guangzhou and Shanghai.

350 AD (9) Beijing is up to two unhappy faces; I don't think it's worth it to whip the axe it is currently building ( due in three) but I recommend whipping a settler after that if the military situation allows it.

You see, old Julius finally grew a pair and is advancing from Antium:

http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/6740/madromanadvance9zw.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Our sword and shock-axe adopt a Fabian strategy in response.

375 AD (10) Our troops continue to attack in a different direction as Romans advance. I do what I should have done last turn and send Beijing's anti-barb axe towards Nanjing, it'll produce another one in two turns.
Nanjing itself is also under threat from a barb axe, and there's only a city raider axe inside.

Two possibilities for our Western front:

http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/536/madtactical2ez.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

We can't defend against the Roman minor SOD with our two axes and sword inside Nanjing for lack of defensive bonuses, so it'll have to be one of the forests. At best we can slow down the Romans, but there's no good way of stopping them once they're past Nanjing.

Dire Straits (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/MadV3_AD-0375.Civ4SavedGame)

Corbeau

Jan 18, 2006, 04:41 PM

I'd recommend defending as far out as possible, and retreating as we need to. The longer we hold out at a distance, the longer we have to prepare. I'd also consider building walls at Nanjing.

We have to delay long enough to reach machinery and our UU. If we can do that, we should have a real chance.

jameson

Jan 18, 2006, 05:01 PM

Walls at Nanjing are good idea, but I'm afraid the Romans will get there before they're done. Their stack isn't all that big comparatively speaking but it's still more than we can muster. We are also still seriously lacking in research power ( metal casting was slated to take 18 turns at the start of my turns, and machinery is almost twice as expensive again). Of course this will improve as Shanghai and Guangzhou grow, but not fast.

We better hope Caesar doesn't seriously try and wipe us out.

Edited in the roster:

CoolioVonHoolio <----- UP
Madviking- <---- on deck
Corbeau-
Jeff1787-
jameson- just played

CoolioVonHoolio

Jan 19, 2006, 12:29 PM

ok cool. i downloaded the patch. and got the game.

CoolioVonHoolio

Jan 19, 2006, 01:18 PM

a wonderful victory in the north is followed by a defeat in the south... that southern city was distroyed.
Quick Overview:
The north is secured. A bloody battle was fought to take control of that needed city. However none of our units were distroyed in the battle. Barbarians are still a problem. Our city in the south was distroyed by romans. We are researching machinary, and currently have like 5 units headed towards antium. good luck madviking!

Jeff1787

Jan 19, 2006, 11:34 PM

There is no log of the turns. It is like people are just playing, but have no interest. I am very sorry, but I am going to drop out of this SG. Good luck guys!!!!!!

CoolioVonHoolio

Jan 21, 2006, 01:25 PM

There is no log of the turns. It is like people are just playing, but have no interest. I am very sorry, but I am going to drop out of this SG. Good luck guys!!!!!!
what? i was the only one who didnt log my turns because, i never really do... but if you wanna drop out, oh well.

madviking

Jan 21, 2006, 01:38 PM

Well... it seems like the bad luck we got starting next to Caesar is driving people away... :(

I also seems like even I have lost interest in this. But, how about a new start?

Corbeau

Jan 21, 2006, 03:41 PM

Personally, I'm quite interested in seeing if we can pull this out. Maybe not win, but I want to see Ceasar get pasted. :mad: ;)

jameson

Jan 21, 2006, 03:51 PM

I'll play this out, should be interesting to see how we deal with Caesar. Other people can take note of how not to play AW :D.

I do second the call for if not exhaustive logs, at least logs that give a clue about what the thought behind the turns was.

Jeff1787

Jan 21, 2006, 06:53 PM

what? i was the only one who didnt log my turns because, i never really do... but if you wanna drop out, oh well.

Coolo...no you weren't the only one. All turns should be logged in SG's so everyone can learn, both from good moves and mistakes. Jameson hit the nail on the head.

Corbeau

Jan 21, 2006, 08:02 PM

Well, MadViking is up. I do agree that we need logs though. There's not much point to playing SGs without logs, IMO (unless that's the specific variant - which at least one team has tried).

I'll try to do better about posting pictures, too.

CoolioVonHoolio

Jan 22, 2006, 08:14 AM

hey, its not like we've lost to cesar yet, he has almost no more reinforcements right now. if you look at the screenshot i posted you can see how close to the city we are and he has no units about to attack us. so if we just keep those guys there, fighting off the guys he throws at us, we can build more units at home. when the time is right we can strike the city.

madviking

Jan 22, 2006, 08:40 AM

I got the save

culdeus

Jan 25, 2006, 09:03 AM

Do you guys know in always war if:

1) AI trades tech with another (unless otherwise specified)
2) AI fights eachother?

Zavior

Jan 25, 2006, 10:49 AM

Do you guys know in always war if:

1) AI trades tech with another (unless otherwise specified)
2) AI fights eachother?

The AI's aren't in war with eachothers, and they do trade techs.

Corbeau

Jan 25, 2006, 10:51 AM

I think that the AI civs act normally. It's just that the game requires us to declare on every AI we meet.

CoolioVonHoolio

Jan 25, 2006, 07:33 PM

madv what is taking so long?

culdeus

Jan 26, 2006, 06:59 AM

Well, gllllllllllll to you guys. If our little group knew AW didn't mean all civs at war with all civs all the time real hard right now then we would have picked a different variant.

I'll be watching to see which of us retires first....

culdeus

Jan 27, 2006, 07:18 PM

I'll alternate for you if you need it. Our AW game isn't going so bad.

jameson

Jan 28, 2006, 08:26 AM

I suggest we skip Madviking as it's been almost a week. I have no objection at all to culdeus picking it up :).

CoolioVonHoolio

Jan 29, 2006, 07:34 AM

yes i dont know what happened to him...

culdeus

Jan 29, 2006, 08:21 AM

I opened the save and noticed you have a settler ready. What was the plan for it? It appears you do not have enough defensive units to protect it from the barbs or romans at the moment. Hold it back? The lack of archers in the periphrial cities is semi-alarming. Barbs should be rolling at you with axes fairly often now.

I'll see what i can do about shaking the invading prats. I'll hold about 2 hrs to wait for comments. 11:30 cst or noonish I'll go.

culdeus

Jan 29, 2006, 09:46 AM

Pre move 720AD - Noticed some bad things. For one Bejing does not have nearly enough cottages. It's maxed at 6, but is size 8 and unable to pop rush the library. I instead pop rush an archer to escort the settler to the SE ruins site with horses. I turn on extra hammers and avoid growth. Still one unhappy, but it will be gone in 10 turns. I stopped the worker from building the mine 2E of bejing as there was no way it was going to get worked in the near future.

720AD - Worker moved from mining 1NE to mine hill plain that was in work by ganghz. Worker done farming sheep in Nanjing moved to chop walls by removing forest nw of nanjing. Swordsman moved 1S to join with stack in forest. Horse archer moves NW and notices no romans. hmmm... Take chance and advance 3 axes W. Move settler towards archer fortified ruins.

740AD - Archer done in bejing. Start another archer. Cottage done on silk? Move to build cottage in city that needs it (guang). horse crawls up the hill to take a peek. Antitum has prat, axe, chariot, 2spears. Sigh. Axes retreat out of romes cutural borders. Xian started. Building archer.

760AD - Granary done. In a quandry about what to build next. Can afford bigger military so started axe. Will need it to face off vs. prats. Horse archer off to take a look see at roman city to N of antitum.

780AD - Warrior dies vs. barb axe SE of Xian. Another barb archer North of Gang next to our axe. He fortifies.

800AD - Barb archer dies attacking our axe. Walls finished in nanjing. Chopping axe. Another archer surfaces north of Gang. Worker flees to plains hill to south to mine.

820AD - Barb archer dies attacking our axe. We are the least advanced civ in the world. Moved to pillage roman sheep. Miscalculated movement points and leave archer exposed and gets it killt. doh.

840AD - Barb axe (1.6) moves over our horses, the only improved tile in xian. 76% chance of an unpromoted archer winning. Nope bad beet. Gonna let him come to Xian. But oooh boy stupid AI moves mixed stack out in the open. Prat gets killt by axe. Our Axe killt by axe (76%). Spear killt by axe. Axe killt by sword. Boooyeah.

860AD - Our victorious army heals. Axe done in Nanjing. Another ordered up.
Finished starving bejing to size 5. Library done in 5 turns.

880AD - Axe dies attacking Xian. He pillages the horses first.

900AD - Moved some workers. Hopefully uproot the farms near bejing for cottages.

Things in decent shape. Not enough of an army to mount any sort of offensive on Rome, but the economy is in great shape at this point. Gotta make a move on Rome soon. The other AI will be knocking on the door soon.

culdeus

Jan 29, 2006, 09:48 AM

savesssssssssssss

Corbeau

Jan 29, 2006, 12:43 PM

Got it. Should be able to play tomorrow, once I've turned in this damned essay... :sad:

Corbeau

Jan 31, 2006, 06:10 PM

Well, we haven't lost. We might have a chance to turn the corner, but we're going to need some high quality play if we want to survive. Even so, we're going to need some luck.

T0:
Looks okay. Our finances are good, but our military is thin and our empire is small. Happiness is a problem, but we have no solution. Monarchy would be something to think about in the future, especially if we can follow it up by going for Islam, but we have a long way yet to go before we can do that. Machinery is due in 21 turns.

Also notice a potential city site to the north that would be coastal and grab several resources (could either grab 3 wine & one deer or 2 wine & 2 deer). We should think about taking this spot, as we badly need more population.

T1:
A single Praetorian appears to the west of Nanjing, next to our stack in the woods. Decide to wait to attack, and see if he'll suicide. We'll take at least one loss if we hit him in the open.

T2:
The Roman heads around our troops, into the desert. Well darn. Can't let him get to Nanjing, so it's now or never. Our first Axe does well, and the second kills the Roman flawlessly. MM Beijing to produce more commerce rather than hammers, and also start to grow (we have 6 happy faces, but only 5 pop).

On a side note, why do we have so many farms at Beijing? We don't need to boost pop, but we do need commerce. Moreover, I've noticed several units with goto orders that have bled over to my turns. Please don't do that in succession games, or at least post a note if you feel that you have very good reason for setting a goto.

T3:
Get a worker ready to chop at Nanjing. Beijing Library -> Axe.

T4:
Romans show up in force. Not a huge stack, but more than we can easily handle.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/MADv3_1_Jan31_1.jpg

We'd get stomped in the open field, and if the Romans bypass us to go for Nanjing we can't get there quickly enough without getting wacked in the flat. Falling back now would mean abandoning our forward position without a fight. However, AI has already shown that it's willing to bypass our fortified position so staying put is a major risk. I make the decision to pull back to Nanjing and bring an additional Axe up from Beijing.

T5:
Romans follow us. Our Workers evacuate the area around Nanjing. If the Romans don't attack the city, it may get totally pillaged.

T6:
Beijing Axe -> Axe. Fortify at Nanjing.

T7:
The Romans move out into the desert outside Nanjing rather than moving onto our cottage tile. This could mean that they won't be pillaging (good), or it could mean that they're going for our iron mine (bad).

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/MADv3_1_Jan31_2.jpg

T8:
The Romans storm the walls at Nanjing! Two Praetorians are killed by our defending Axemen, but we lost a Sword to a Horse Archer. Their attack is a failure, and the remains of their stack (a wounded Horse Archer and a Spearman) skulk towards our cottage. I decide to counterattack, and the Romans fall to our Axes. We have won the battle with a 4-1 kill ratio, but our units are all beat up. They'll need some time to heal before they can be sent out again.

T9:
Nanjing Barracks -> Axe.

T10:
Beijing Axe -> Axe. Crap, the Romans are back. This time with an even larger stack, mostly comprised of Horse Archers.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/MADv3_1_Jan31_3.jpg

We should consider building some Spearmen, if Ceasar is going to send these at us. Machinery is due in 3 turns at -8 gpt (we have 48 in the bank), but Chu-Ko-Nu won't do a whole lot of good against Horse Archers.

The save:

jameson

Feb 01, 2006, 05:30 AM

Got it, will try to get some spears going ASAP.

I'll probably go for monarchy after machinery and look to settle a city on the road between Beijjing and Nanjing for wines, rice and production.

jameson

Feb 02, 2006, 04:27 AM

Inherited turn: no changes.

1060 AD (1) Our workers are all over the place, I don'tt know exactly what the plan for them is.
Beijing produces an axe, set to spear. I'm going to chop a few more units here.

1070 AD (2) We get a level five unit beating off the Roman assault on Nanjing. A prat, 3 horse archers and a chariot die,
no casualties on our side. Seeing as the Romans are coming at us with horse archers now I give our top unit the formation promotion.

1080 AD (3) Machinery comes in, go for Priesthood in 1 because it leads to Monarchy.

1090 AD (4) 4 Horse archers die at the gates of Nanjing, a chariot does kill an archer. A newly arrived axe takes him out.
Beijing produces a spear, go for a settler due in 7 next.

1100 AD (5) All quiet on the Western front.

1110 AD (6) Roman chariot shows up looking to pillage.

1120 AD (7) Guangzhou's borders finally expand allowing us to work the sheep there. Completes a barracks, starts, why not, a Cho-Ko-Nu.
Spear kills the chariot, give him two strength promotions as that's required for Formation.

1130 AD (8) Nanjing completes axe, starts obelisk. I want a culture expansion here just so incoming Roman troops are spotted earlier.

1140 AD -1150 AD ( 9 & 10 ) No Roman activity at all, we're also looking pretty decent on defense.

Monarchy is due next turn as is the settler from Beijing. So we can hook up the wines at Guangzhou and revolt to HR for much-needed extra happy. This is the spot I'd prefer for the settler:

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/7715/madvnewcity4wy.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Sure, it has quite a bit of overlap, but it will be able to work the floodplains for growth, the iron and hills for production and the wines for commerce. Easily our best prospect IMHO.