Hello everyone !
Enjoying roleplaying my games, I made that variant by the times of Civ 2. Now with the far better diplomatic system of Civ 4 and the addition of religions, I thought it was time to clean the dust out of it and to update it a little :)

Variant story : After the completion of Earth, the gods created eight semi-god/semi-human beings to lead the eight tribes of humans that were intended to expand all other the planet. Their task was to enlighten their people in the values of trust, dedication to each other and love. Those values were also the strong ties that were linking them. They were profundly inclined to take care of each other and should a problem arise for one of them, he knows he could count on their brothers and sisters to help him out.

But shortly after their departure, a war erupted between the gods. The sharing of cults among the humans was the cause. The selfish cause of all their creation now made it to the light. Each god wanted to be the only to be worshipped on Earth, and by that mean, take control of the Skies.

Seven factions appeared among the gods. Each one began to corrupt the soul of one the semi-gods sent to Earth in order to make it his puppet. Selfishness, paranoia, megalomania, cruelty, vanity, glory's thirst, xenophobia and more.. completely overwhelmed the soul of seven of the eight semi-gods. The righteous values they were given at their creation were no longer the motor of their actions.

But one of them haven't been corrupted by the fallen gods. He knew something happened when his soul lost contact with his godly creators and now he was on his own, still with his godly mission to make Earth a reflection of the now lost Skies. You're that one..

Game setup and rules to follow :)

Variant rules :
About religion..
- We must try to found as much religion as possible, we mustn't leave those tools at the hands of the fallen gods as means to bring war between humans.
- We must try to convert everyone to only one faith to ensure better relations between every civilizations.
- If another civilization found a religion, we can leave them in their hands as long as they don't declare war on a civ with another religion. If it happens, we must capture his holy city. We still must convert this civ to the universal faith.

About diplomacy..
Belonging to our values, we must be kind to everyone. That means :
- We must accept every trade proposition.
- We mustn't ask for tribute. Asking for help from a friend is ok.
- We must help anyone when asked for, should it be gold, ressources, techs. But if they ask for tribute, we must decline. We're here to bring back the semi-gods to their godly intents, not to comfort them in their corruption.
We're not allowed to cultivate friendship with someone on the behalf of isolating another one. That means :
- We're not allowed to break trade deals

About war..
- We're not allowed to declare war on someone living peacefully
- We're not allowed to join a war of aggression when asked for
- We must join a war of defense when asked for
If two other civ are at war :
- We must continualy ask for the aggressor to make peace with his victim, even if he ask us for ressource, techs, gold.
If he refuses and capture a city :
- We must declare war on him
- We must liberate the captured city and give it back to it's original owner
- Ask for peace at that point (for us and the civ he attacked first)
- If he refuses, we're allowed to capture cities from him. At each capture, we must propose him peace (for us and the civ he attacked first) in exchange of his captured city
- Repeat the above until peace is concluded
- We're not allowed to ask for tribute in peace deals
If a civ declare war on us :
- Just do the above until peace is declared
- We're not allowed to ask for help from another civ
- We're not allowed to ask for tribute in peace deals

About civics..
Government :
- Police state civic prohibited
- We must revolt to universal suffrage as soon as available
Legal :
- Nationhood civic prohibited
- We must revolt to free speech as soon as available
Labor :
- Slavery prohibited
- We must revolt to emancipation as soon as available
Economy :
- Mercantilism and state property prohibited
- No imposed civic
Religion :
- Theocracy prohibited
- We must revolt to free religion as soon as available

When we revolt to one of our favorite civic, we must try to convert other civ to them by diplomacy only. Given that, the UN is the must have wonder for us. We're also not allowed to build nukes and the non-proliferation act must be the first resolution to ask a vote for.

I want to emphasize one thing, our duty to keep original cultural borders of all civ intact from the beginning to the end. We must be able to intervene everywhere and fast with our army to ensure security for all civilizations.

Victory types :
- Conquest and domination disabled
- Space race
The least wanted, as leaving earth is a sign of failure of bringing back our brothers and sisters to their former values and reflecting the Skies on earth
- Cultural
Proclaming our cultural superiority is a win on the humans souls but it doesn't ensure that our brothers and sisters share this enthusiasm. Still better than space victory though :)
- Diplomacy
The hardest but the most glorious victory. It really means our brothers and sisters came back from their bad ways.


Sorry for the long post :blush: The level of the game will be prince and epic speed. Let me know if you're interested :) I will post more about the setup of the game later.

- Eozen

Map : Pangea
Size : Standard
Climate : Temperate
Sealevel : Low
Era : Ancient
Shorelines : Solid
Speed : Epic

Difficulty : Prince
Civilization : Aztecs
Opponents : 7
I chosen them for their tendance to war, as AIs seems quite peaceful in Civ 4. Here they are : Alexander, Catherine, Genghis, Isabella, Caesar, Napoleon, Tokugawa

25 turns first, then 20, then 10.

Roster :
- Eozenig
- Dantski
- Corbeau
- Leitherrse
- pling

Anyone interested ? Or any question/idea/suggestion if not ? :(

I'm interested but I've never played on Prince, so was prepared to let better players fill the slots. But hey I'll give it a shot if you need me

I'm interested but I've never played on Prince, so was prepared to let better players fill the slots. But hey I'll give it a shot if you need me
No problems :) If more players are bothered by the difficulty level, we can tone it down to noble. The rules are already harsh enough to give a nice challenge.

Ironically, Eozenig, I had pondered such a SG as this too. ;)

However, I'm still in two SG's that will take some time to finish out, and due to other real life time constraints, I cannot join. I'll be following with interest, however. I hope others will join this! It's a great premise.

A question, though: Why the Aztecs?
I would think a philosophical/spiritual civ would fit the 'peace keeper' theme better?

This looks interesting.

But I am having issues with loading other people's saved games at the moment and am a total n00b anyway so I will have to pass on this one I think...

Thanks for for your encouragments :)

A question, though: Why the Aztecs?
I would think a philosophical/spiritual civ would fit the 'peace keeper' theme better?
True, the aztecs are kind of the antithesis of it :crazyeye: :lol:
Well, it is more for gameplay reasons. Depending of the success of the spread of our religion, we will surely have to be quite active militarily. But we are prohibited two warlike civics, especially theocracy with it's 2xp bonus. It could be really a serious handicap if we are to wage much wars. So I think that the aggressive trait will permit us to balance that a little with it's free combat I promotions for some units, allowing directly a more specialized promoted unit out of the box.
But perhaps I'm too cautious on that one. I never took advantage of that aggressive trait in any of my game yet so I don't know if it will really be helpful.

Thanks for for your encouragments :)

True, the aztecs are kind of the antithesis of it :crazyeye: :lol:
Well, it is more for gameplay reasons. Depending of the success of the spread of our religion, we will surely have to be quite active militarily. But we are prohibited two warlike civics, especially theocracy with it's 2xp bonus. It could be really a serious handicap if we are to wage much wars. So I think that the aggressive trait will permit us to balance that a little with it's free combat I promotions for some units, allowing directly a more specialized promoted unit out of the box.
But perhaps I'm too cautious on that one. I never took advantage of that aggressive trait in any of my game yet so I don't know if it will really be helpful.

Ah! In hindsight, I can see now why you chose the Aztec.
It's a bold choice ... :thumbsup:

You did choose some tough neighbors, too.

I'll add for those a bit squemish about Prince ... it's not *that* much harder than Noble, really. I think the varient rules and Prince will engender a nice challenge for those that are ready.

Good luck Eozenig getting this off the ground! It has a lot of promise.

I am interested - but I'm away now till the 3rd Jan, so wouldn't be able to play till the 4th.

I'm an almost total SG newbie (in one other at the moment) ... and I've played a couple of games on Prince at single player, but got my butt kicked (GOTM2 practices, man I'm gonna suck at that ;) ). So given that and that I'm away now I'll understand if you fill the slots up with other people who're here and likely more useful ;)

I'd be interested in this. While I already have a couple SGs going, I think I can handle three. A big fan of diplomatic funkyness. :D I have fond memories of my SMAC economic victory that I won without fighting a single war. I can dominate Noble in Civ4, so I think I'm fine with a higher difficulty.

On a side note, Dantski, do I know you from a different game? One with a, say, mythy flavor?

@pling
I'll put you at the end of the roster, though I don't think the game will get started before the next year :)

I'd be interested in this. While I already have a couple SGs going, I think I can handle three. A big fan of diplomatic funkyness. :D I have fond memories of my SMAC economic victory that I won without fighting a single war. I can dominate Noble in Civ4, so I think I'm fine with a higher difficulty.
You're more than welcome then :D I can't wait to see how we will deal with some fellows, especially with Tokugawa and Isabella. If they get a different religion of ours, we will have a hard time managing to keep them at bay.. or defending them from pissed off neighbours :lol:

Glad to be aboard!

Personally, I think we should prop up Toku to be our eventual opponent in the U.N. elections. Considering his average popularity, that might be the boost we need for the win! :crazyeye:

I'm new to succession games, but I'd like to jump into the rotation if you guys don't mind that.

Short term objectives : Given the set-in-stone cultural borders, the land grab will be very important. Taking advantage of food ressources is a priority. The stonehenge is must-have too, as there is one more civ than map default so space will be tight.

Ok let's get started. :)

4000BC
Really nice start ! Three food ressources and lots of forest :goodjob:
http://img317.imageshack.us/img317/8421/iviewcapturedate02012006time15.th.jpg (http://img317.imageshack.us/my.php?image=iviewcapturedate02012006time15.jpg)

Founding the city also reveals stone within city tiles :p
Our scouts get a usefull map (yup, sea maps like I usually get aren't usefull :lol: )
http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/8421/iviewcapturedate02012006time15.th.jpg (http://img377.imageshack.us/my.php?image=iviewcapturedate02012006time15.jpg)

I begin research on polytheism (18 turns). Let's hope that we can deny as much as religion as possible to the AIs. One part of that strategy could be to use great prophets to get the religions techs while we spread our religion with missionnaries, not passively with the shrine.
Tenochtitlan begins work on a scout (9 turns).

3800BC
We meet Genghis

3720BC
We meet Cathy and Toku

3640BC
Scout done in Tenoch*
Begins a warrior

3520BC
We meet Alexander

3480BC
Buddhism founded far away (certainly by Isabella)

3320BC
Tenoch* grows to size 2

3280BC
We found hinduism
http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/8421/iviewcapturedate02012006time15.th.jpg (http://img528.imageshack.us/my.php?image=iviewcapturedate02012006time15.jpg)

I revolt immediately.
I set research on fishing. Given the load of forest we have around a worker won't have much things to do. So we can delay building it until we are able to connect stone. The clam and the fish will be enough to get a nice growth rate already. Moreover we won't slow the growth of Tenoch* with building workboats and the worker/settler builds will beneficiate of high food production.
I put Tenoch* to work on Stonehenge until we can build workboats.

3200BC
We meet Caesar

3120BC
Uh-oh...
http://img334.imageshack.us/img334/8421/iviewcapturedate02012006time15.th.jpg (http://img334.imageshack.us/my.php?image=iviewcapturedate02012006time15.jpg)

3080BC
Our scout slay the bear, on open terrain on top of that :eek:
I promote him to woodsman I and send him to the forest nearby to heal.

3040BC
We meet Napoleon

2960BC
Fishing done >> Begins research on masonry
I put a workboat in front of Stonehenge

2800BC
End of session

Status of Tenochtitlan
http://img307.imageshack.us/img307/2903/iviewcapturedate02012006time16.th.jpg (http://img307.imageshack.us/my.php?image=iviewcapturedate02012006time16.jpg)

The lands around and city sites proposition. Any suggestions ?
http://img307.imageshack.us/img307/1520/iviewcapturedate02012006time17.jpg
http://img307.imageshack.us/img307/3681/iviewcapturedate02012006time18.jpg


Post-turns thoughts :
Well, good news is that we won't have to deal with a two fronts war. Bad news is that we are kinda trapped by one ruthless warmonger south-west and by a paranoiac-xenophobic leader north-west... It's not likely they will sign open borders, unless our religion spreads to them by itself. The best thing we can do then is to connect their cities to us when possible.
If they convert to another religion, we are really in trouble as we wouldn't be able to project our peacekeeping forces by land and it would be very likely that Genghis would give us a visit from time to time.

Eozen

25 turns first, then 20, then 10.

Roster :
- Eozenig
- Dantski (Up - 20 turns)
- Corbeau (On deck)
- Leitherrse
- pling

Ok playing it now

Given that a couple of us (Pling and I) are new to SGs, I was wondering about the ground rules of this game type. I ran across a thread that outlined SGs, but I didn't have a chance to read it at the time, and I can't find it again. I'm not sure how to post screenshots, do the logs, etc.
I would also be interested in some strategy discussion as we go along. I've only played a few games on Prince, mostly unsuccessfully, which I think is at least in part the result of the need for different tactics at harder difficulty levels.

I'll only include turns that stuff happens.

Turn 1 2760 BC
Healing scout runs from panther.

T4 2640 BC
Our borders expand, doesn't encompass any new resources.

T5 2600 BC
Teno grows to size 3, emphasise production so work boat will finish in 2 turns.

T7 2520 BC
With the boat built, I send it to work the fish. With growth just occuring and Stonehenge still a way off, I decide to get our first worker started.

T10 2400 BC
Masonry is researched, decide to start on monotheism, with the intention of grabbing wheel when worker completes and starts building a quarry. Also it will help if we can grab the religion itself and the organised religion ASAP.

T14 2240 BC
Caesar clearly has not been blessed with our enlightened ways and adopts Slavery.

T17 2120 BC
Scout with forest/jungle promotion, is killed while defending from a lion in a forest [pissed]
Worker is completed and sets off to stone.

T18 2080 BC
With the quarry started, I switch research to Wheel, both will complete in 8 turns.

And nothing else happens.

I don't feel like screenshots cause nothing interesting happened.

Eoz - I quite like the tundra spot on the river far west actually. True its a bit further away than you'd normally like, but wheat + river + sheep + grabbing us a bit more space I think would be useful.

Given that a couple of us (Pling and I) are new to SGs, I was wondering about the ground rules of this game type. I ran across a thread that outlined SGs, but I didn't have a chance to read it at the time, and I can't find it again. I'm not sure how to post screenshots, do the logs, etc.
I would also be interested in some strategy discussion as we go along. I've only played a few games on Prince, mostly unsuccessfully, which I think is at least in part the result of the need for different tactics at harder difficulty levels.
Those two threads could be of some help then :)
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=14235
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=55122

As for the strategy discussion, I'm all for it too. The variants rules makes us walking on a thin line so no discussion is a sure way to crash in the wall sooner or later.
Detailing in the report which choices were made and why is important too, for the next players to follow the strategy behind them on their turns.

Eozen

Eoz - I quite like the tundra spot on the river far west actually. True its a bit further away than you'd normally like, but wheat + river + sheep + grabbing us a bit more space I think would be useful.
An audacious choice :D Sure it is a nice spot for ressources but if we settle there, we will piss off Toku AND Genghis early in the game. I'm not sure we want to deal with that so soon.
I would be more inclined to settle the blue dot first, it offers a nice defense spot with the hill tile north and then the mountains.

Got it.

On the strategy front, I'd be leery of settling that far away. If we do, we'd better make sure that we fill in or bar off our backfield ASAP. The last thing we want with these variant rules is Khan settling on our northern coast.

On the other hand, I maintain that fortune favors the bold. Risk nothing, gain nothing. The more land we can get, the better. But we'd better be ready to settler spam and lose out in the research battle...

On a side note, if Khan or Toku founds a different religion we might want to consider going without a state religion for a while to ease tensions. I think we'll have to pick between Toku or Khan as who we want as an ally, and who we want to set up as our diplomatic opponent. I recommend waiting until they go to war, personally (which might be a good reason why NOT to settle the tundra... let them come into conflict sooner).

An uneventful turnset.

T0: look over our empire. Or city, as it may be. We're hooking up stone and we are building Stonehenge. Our capital also has several food resources. A future specialist/GPP city, perhaps? Anyway, the decision about where to settle is still far off in the future.

On another note, our military is a joke: one warrior guarding our capital. If barbs show up, that's simply not going to get us through. I interrupt Stonehenge to build a warrior. Since the warrior will be done before our stone is hooked up, that costs us at most 2-3 turns off of the completion date for Stonehenge. If we miss it by 2-3 turns, blame me.

Hit enter.

T1: Livy ranks the most powerful nations on the planet. Caesar is #1, followed by Toku. We're dead last. Out in the far wilderness, our scout dodges a lion.

T2: Lion follows, scout dodges again.

T3: Lions don't follow this time.

T4: Nothing.

T5: Nadda.

T6: Warrior done, our capital goes back to building Stonehenge. We move the warrior to the north to fortify in the woods and provide protection for our worker.

T7: We have discovered that we can move goods and people effectively by the use of a round rotating disk. According to variant rules, I set course for Monotheism hoping to found another religion. Alex adopts slavery. I think our quarry finished this turn, but I forgot to write it down.

We now have vision to all of Toku's expansion options. Personally, I think he'll try to grab that nice tundra spot. He doesn't have much else near him that's worthwhile.

T8: Zip.

T9: Zero.

T10: Road on our quarry tile is complete, move to the forest next to Tenoch to complete the process of hooking up our stone. Next player will have to finish that though.

Summary: I think Toku may take the nice spot we've been aiming for. On the domestic front, our stone is almost hooked up and we have an extra warrior for protection against barbs. We should probably go for agriculture after Monotheism so we can farm the wheat to the south of Tenoch, and consider building a settler once Stonehenge is done.

This is probably unusual, but since I don't want to be responsible for any major screwups in my first SG, I'm going to post my first 7 turns, ask some advice, then play and post my remaining 3 turns. Let me know if you'd rather I don't do this sort of thing in the future, but for now here it is.

1750 (t=0)
- everything looks good. end turn.

1725 (t-1)
- Ghengis builds Beshbalik, encroaching on our territory and grabbing the sheep, wheat and silk (see attached image)
- worker begins road to connect stone to Tenoch
- move scout to hill between Beshbalik and mongol capital to keep an eye on both.
- - soon tokugawa won't be able to send anyone (ie settler) through, and neither will we without open borders
- move fortified warrior north to keep an eye on the northern area, east of beshbalik

110068

1700 (t=2)
- northern warrior sees barb warrior, fortifies on a forested hill

1675 (t=3)
- nada

1650 (t=4)
- northern warrior is attacked by barb warrior and is victorious
- worker finishes road and hooks up stone
- - 7 turns left on Stonehenge, Tenoch grows in 1 turn to pop 5
- - try to MM Tenoch for an exta hammer, but can't and still grown next turn
- - no actions available to the worker, so start him on a road to the grain - maybe continue road towards cows and blue-dot city location next

1625 (t=5)
- Tenoch grows to pop 5

1600 (t=6)
- occurs to me to MM Tenoch and cut time on stonehenge. do so, reducing time 1 turn to 3 turns, and while it adds 7 turns to growth of tenoch, that shouldn't matter as it can be switched back shortly

1575 (t=7)
- Tenoch founds judaism
- start research on mining, the reasons for choosing bronze working remain valid, despite the extra 7 turns on mining. on the plus side, the worker can improve those hills around the blue dot city with mines to up it's production

1550 (t=8)
- nada, except toku adopts slavery, poor unenlightened fool.

1525 (t=9)
- Tenoch completes Stonehenge
- work begins in Tenoch on a settler, 11 turns to completion

1500 (t=10)
- northern warrior is attacked by barb warrior, defends successfully and levels up. leave him unleveled and fortified until healed
- worker finishes road to wheat

10 turns until settler
4 turns until mining


110227

Roster :
- Eozenig (On deck)
- Dantski
- Corbeau
- Leitherrse
- pling (Up)

Mainly I'm not sure about the next tech, but also on what to do with our scout and worker

Tech choices

Agriculture
- not worth it for a single wheat, while we can still develop the clam to boost food, especially when we don't need to worry about health before happiness
- we aren't getting near any freshwater exept a smal lake near Tenoch, so we won't be able to build any other farms anytime soon

Sailing
- we can tack on an extra fpt from our sea tiles, with a lighthouse (especially useful with the fish and clam)
- it looks like we're going to get boxed in, so expansion may rely on throwing a settler in a galley and shipping him elsewhere (possibly to the area south of us SE of alex. i just noticed that napoleon has set up shop over there, so that may not work so well)

Pottery
- lots of grasslands around Tenoch that we could cottage, but we need bronze working first

Animal Husbandry
- we'll want it when we settle the blue dot city, especially since the surrounding tiles are less food-intensive than Tenoch's

Archery
- we need a better devensive force
- - there won't be much unseen space around us soon, so we wont have to deal with too many barbs
- - genghis is aggressive with an early UU, and may pick on us if we are militarily weak

Meditation
- need for monastary is less immediate with only 1 city and no ability to send missionaries elsewhere until open borders

Bronze working
- we can use the worker for something, such as chop-rushing near tenoch, although that may reduce our long-term productivity there until we can make some workshops
- reveals copper
- - ideally we might be able to block ghengis or toku from aquiring any, reducing their ability for warfare and fostering our peaceful agenda
- - with no jungle and a non-aggressive strategy, we wont' be going for iron working soon, so with our options for expansion narrowing, we probably need an early metal or we'll be at a severe disadvantage


Other issues

Scout
- we need to decide if we want him in or out of genghis' borders (out seems the only reasonable choice), and if so, what we want to do with him

Worker
- since all he can do is build roads, i think he should be building towards our next city site, especially with no river connectivity. so, where will it be so we can send him in the right direction

Tenoch
- what to build next?
- - the only reasonable choice to me seems like a settler. we don't need to grow tenoch much more, as our current happiness cap is pop 6 and we have pop 5, so we need to either research techs that will allow us to improve happiness or grab a luxury and link it up. a settler temporarily halts growth while still taking advantage of the strong agricultural output of Tenoch, allowing for us to pursue both strategies.


Let me know what you guys think. I'll be at work tomorrow and while able to check the board, I won't be able to play until tomorrow evening. This shouldn't slow us down at all, though, as Pling stated he wouldn't be back until Wednesday.

Bad break that Khan nabbed the good river spot. Worse is that we can't declare on him to break out of our corner.

Personally, I think that if we're going to build a settler next (I might consider a warrior first, rather than leaving our new city without a garrison) that we should go for animal husbandry and found blue dot. Then head for bronze working, as we have a ton of forests and could use all the advantage possible. After that I would guess either pottery or sailing, though that's a good way off. The problem with going for Archers is that hunting does nothing for us, so I'm not sure what to do militarily. :(

(I might consider a warrior first, rather than leaving our new city without a garrison)

We do have a second warrior who is currently monitoring the territory to the north. He could garrison our second city, if we want him to.

I still worry about barbs popping up if we don't have an extra warrior to deal with them. Maybe I'm just paranoid, but a bit of bad luck could put us in an auto-lose situation.

Well, I am paranoid. The question is if I have reason to be paranoid or not. :D

Our northern warrior is in a good position to attract spawning barbs, and with the 75% bonus of forest and hill, he should stay undefeated until they get axemen.
In terms of the barbarian problem, my understanding is that barbarians cannot spawn on territory not covered by the fog of war. With thecurrent location of the northern warrior, there is very little and it may be safer to keep him there. However, barbs are equally likely to go after Genghis' new city, so we may not need him, if the extra few turns makes a difference.

One thing I forgot to mention before is when to switch to Organized religion. My feeling is that we should do so as soon as Stonehenge finishes in one or two turns.

I'd switch to organised religion as soon as we get our 2nd city in place. I'd also not garrison the city immediately but keep the war as close as possible.

Let me know what you guys think. I'll be at work tomorrow and while able to check the board, I won't be able to play until tomorrow evening. This shouldn't slow us down at all, though, as Pling stated he wouldn't be back until Wednesday.

I'm not sure on techs myself - I'm tempted towards bronze working as we need to know soon if we've got a metal nearby or not (given I don't think we'll get many cities in the space we're being left). Though that may mean the barbs get axemen, so there's disadvantages too.

But I'm definitely inclined towards a settler to be built next - if we don't get a second city soon I'm worried we'll end up with only the one (given we can't just take over some from Genghis). What's the ruling on barbarians btw? Do we get to take over any barb cities or do we have to treat them like another civ?

I'm back, btw, but still won't be playing till tomorrow - a 6 hour drive isn't conducive to thought even if you're just the passenger and not the driver :) I'm on GMT though, so my tomorrow may well arrive before other people's ;) (Oh, and I'm a she, not a he :D )

My apologies, Pling. I'll use gender-appropriate pronouns in the future.

As for the tech, I'm inclined to go with either sailing or bronze working. Sailing would be a gamble, but might let us grab a little extra territory, with the added bonus of a city or cities from which we might more easily spread our preferred religion. However, it's probable that we will want to grab nearby territory first, and we will probably lose out on all the best city locations in other areas in the intervening time. So I think I'd prefer bronze working for the metal and for the ability to do some chop rushing of settlers and defensive units to grab what territory we can around us.

My apologies, Pling. I'll use gender-appropriate pronouns in the future.

No worries - I tend to forget that if I don't point it out when I'm new somewhere then no-one will know :lol:

About the tech choice, I would go for bronze working too as spearmen is the only unit that can take on Genghis keshiks in case of war. Don't forget that spearmen aren't available with bronze working, but with hunting.
About the build choices, I also think it is more than time to expand, so I'd go for a settler too. I would even build two in a rown, to build a third city on the red dot (east of Genghis new city). With Stonehenge, we'll have the upper hand in grabbing tiles. But before sending settlers, build some escorts, spearmen or archers if it happens we don't have any copper.
About organized religion, we don't need it that much actually (Tenoch will build units, not buildings) and moreover it has an high upkeep. It would cripple our finances just before our expansion phase.
About chopping forests, I think we should only chop the ones on grasslands. The ones on plains will be of much use later on with lumber mill and railroads.
About barb cities, I intended no restrictions at all on them in the rules.

On a general note, I'd suggest a focus on expansion for some turns and military build up to accompany it.

@pling
Welcome back, just in time :D

I'd like to second the comment about saving forests on plains. I've used that strategy several times, and it can turn into a mid-game production powerhouse.

I haven't tried that strategy before, although I can see the importance of doing so with the lack of shield-rich tiles like hills to mine. Either way, once we get some other cities going, throwing some farms around that lake and cottages elsewhere could turn Tenoch into a GP-factory, and generate significant commerce, while other cities focus on production.

Info on remaining turns and save game will be retroactively added to earlier post.

Got the save. I'll play later today :)

Aaaand we're off!

Turn 0 (1500 BC)
All is well in the Aztec Empire!

Turn 1 (1475 BC)
Turn 2 (1450 BC)

Turn 3 (1425 BC)
Warrior promoted: Combat II
(I guess it finished healing, re-fortified it)
Tech learned: Mining

Turn 4 (1400 BC)
Tech started: Bronze Working

Turn 5 (1375 BC)

Turn 6 (1350 BC)
Scout got popped back to near Tenochtitlan by the Mongol borders, sent it off to sit a bit further out, I wasn't exploring with it as we have a fair idea where things are just leaving it be to hold back fog, maybe this was a mistake?

Turn 7 (1325 BC)

Turn 8 (1300 BC)
Warrior defeats (1.22/2): Barbarian Warrior

Turn 9 (1275 BC)
Tenochtitlan finishes: Settler

Turn 10 (1250 BC)
Tenochtitlan begins: Warrior

Warrior finishes next turn (due to overflow). BronzeWorking finished in 10 turns. Settler is sitting on BlueDot, Worker is hold back fog one to the north of the Settler (:eek:) - taken this risk as if Barb spawns in fog IBT then next person can move settler back out of way and wait for warrior, but if it doesn't spawn on this IBT period then it can't take the city before we have our garrison in place.

Here are couple of screenshots of state of play:

http://ninecats.org/margaret/CivStuff/20060104/Civ4ScreenShot0024_small.JPG

http://ninecats.org/margaret/CivStuff/20060104/Civ4ScreenShot0025_small.JPG

And the roster stands as follows:

- Eozenig (Up)
- Dantski (On deck)
- Corbeau
- Leitherrse
- pling (Just played)

Got it, I play tonight.

Still alive, Eozenig?

It's been 60 hours since we last heard from Eozenig, whoever is is up next can skip, if they want, in my understanding.

Sorry, I got a quite busy week.. Report to follow soon now.

A very quiet set of turns

1250BC
Checking here and there ~~ Hit [enter]

1225BC
Warrior done in Tenoch, begins work on a settler.
Teotihuacan founded. Nothing to build excepted barracks.
I send the worker to build a road to the next city site.

Nothing happened at all then. The worker is building the last piece of road and settler is due in 2 turns.

http://img417.imageshack.us/img417/250/iviewcapturedate07012006time16.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Bronze working due in 1 turn. If it happens we have no copper, I'd suggest we research archery. Else, I'd suggest animal husbandry to connect the cow near Teo. We also need pottery and agriculture.
As for building priorities, well, military is still our number one issue :mischief: A second worker to accompany our development of worker techs could be nice too.
When we got some more military and if our research rate is not too low, I'd suggest to settle the black dot. It would make a nice fishing city with some specialists running, thanks to the two food ressources.

Eozen

- Eozenig
- Dantski (Up)
- Corbeau (On deck)
- Leitherrse
- pling

I don't see any dot :(

Not much to say

When bronze working was complete it revealed copper in Khans lands but not ours. So I researched archery, which he already has I saw.

I settled right in between the sheep and sugar, one tile below the warrior. Working the sugar as well as the base tile meant a whopping 2 commerce already! :rolleyes:

Both cities that we started the turn with, expanded their borders, we will soon see our borders sparking tensions with copper happy Khan.

Built a Barracks after the settler in our capital, then began a walls for one turn waiting for archery to complete, then switched to an archer. Other cities busy with Barracks at the moment.

After archery was researched, I made start on Animal Husbandry since we really need that and agriculture.

Our lone worker built a mine after the road and then optimistically put a road on it too in hopes that we'll pop something good later. I probably should have chopped a barracks but meh..

I don't see any dot :(
The dot map is on page 1. You should have waited for some feedback about that before playing, we aren't in a hurry, are we ? :sad:

Well I read on a bit and saw that it was suggested as a future city site, therefore I adjusted where I settled our new city accordingly.

I don't mean to be obnoxious about this, particularly as this is my first SG, but I would appreciate it if people abide by the 24/48 time frame. If you are busy and swap turns with someone, that should be fine. I'm not encouraging rushing if there is need or opportunity for discussion, but a simple "got it" post would be nice.

::wakes up::

::yawns::

::realizes he's up in a succession game::

::makes a dumb post that's just a longer version of "got it"::

::meditates on playing it sometime this afternoon::

Okay. The situation is now a tad risky, but our empire has improved and stands to prosper in the long term if we can survive and continue to expand. Here's my turnlog.

T0: The rise of the Corbizuma rulers, a dynasty that would last for two roughly hundred years.

The empire actually has cities now, unlike during the past Corb dynasty. We have two more, both building Barracks. Still only one worker, but we don't have a lot of worker techs yet. Since our military is currently a joke, I understand the necessity of the Barracks. Better to build them before we build an army than after. Finally, our economy is lame at dead last in GNP. However, I have a gut feeling that we can still afford one more city and thus still have a shot at black dot.

So, priorities:
Settler for black dot
Build a military
Cottages

Here goes. Hit enter.

T1:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Shot1_Knowledge.jpg

As expected, but not great. Oh well. Teo (southwest city) Barracks -> Archer. Tenoch Archer -> Settler. I don't care if our economy dies in the short term; we need land! This is not going to be a short game if we have our way.

T2:
Sign open borders with Catherine of the Russians. Send our Scout to investigate in that direction.

T3:
Our Archer moves to intercept a Barbarian Warrior near Tlatelolco (northern city). The Barb gets a choice of fortified Warrior on wooded hill or Archer in woods. Our worker also finishes a mine, and I begin a forest chop near Tenoch to hurry the Settler.

T4:
Barb suicides on our Warrior. I send the Archer north towards black dot for fogbusting an (hopefully) eventual garrison duty. Also, Cathy and Toku are sharing borders now.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Shot2_TokuAndCathy.jpg

T5:
Move Scout and Archer.

T6:
Same, plus our chop finishes. Send the worker towards Teo where he'll soon begin a pasture.

T7:
Tenoch Settler->Archer. We badly need military, and there's no time like the present. Our Scout discovers Moscow and continues south.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Shot3_Moscow.jpg

T8:
More unit movement. Find another Russian city south of Moscow. Tlatelolco gets a border pop, which Khan is not likely to enjoy. It reveals a Mongol Settler/Axe team headed towards black dot. We should beat them though.

T9:
Animal Husbandry is in, and I set our research towards Pottery. Cottages are really the only answer I see to improving our flagging economy.

T10:
Texcoco founded on black dot! We beat the Mongols by a narrow margin:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Shot4_BeatingKhan.jpg

Start a workboat in Texcoco, and down south our worker begins a pasture near Teo. Tenoch Archer->Archer. And so ends my turn, with a screenshot of our empire:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Shot5_Empire.jpg

So, I've gotten us black dot. The next player has to keep it. I don't know how Khan will take this, but I'm hoping he still has room to expand to the west. If he attacks us right now, we have problems. I strongly suggest boosting our military in the near future, as well as building cottages. Finally, our research took a kick in the pants from founding Texcoco: 50% at 1-gpt. We can make a plus at 40%, but it'll take a while to get Pottery at that rate. Sorry for leaving our economy in such a bad position, but I think our long-term gains from Tex will outweigh our temporary lag.

So long as we can keep Khan at bay.

Here's the save, and the roster as far as I understand it:
- Leitherrse (Up)
- pling (On deck)
- Eozenig
- Dantski
- Corbeau (Just played)

T0 State of the Union (or random things that have caught me eye):
We'll have to drop to 40% research in 4 turns, and there is a horse resource S-SW of Khan's Beshbalik which would be his only avenue for Keshiks (currently no-man's land)

T1:
Khan's settler team turns back, money situation balances (we're at 50%, 3 gold in the bank and 0 gpt), fortify warrior in and move archer on stone towards Tlatel.

T2-T3:
Nada

T4:
Tlatel: Barracks -> Archer
Tenoch: Archer -> Archer (built archer moves towards Texcoco)
Tenoch grows in 1 turn; consider workboat, but we have enough food for size 6 (happiness limit) without it, and would gain no shields by concentrating food production
Short-term military goal: 2 archers in each border city with warriors in Teo and Tlatel, 1 warrior and 1 archer in Tenoch. (7 archers and 3 warriors total).

T5:
Tenoch grows, MM to stagnate growth and maximize shields. Turn on "Avoid Growth"
Teo: Archer -> Walls (fortify archer)
Worker finishes cows, moves to pasturize Tlatel's sheep.

T6:
Tenoch: Archer -> Walls
(once Tlatel finishes it's archer, the short-term military goals as mentioned above will be fulfilled. This may need to be reevaluated, as my military tends to be my weak-point)

T7:
Worker starts on sheep

T8:
Sorely tempted to make a run for Pyramids (26 Turns) as Representation would give us a huge boost to research and help counteract our lack of luxuryu resources, but bow to conservatism and start on a badly needed worker.

T9:
Hinduism spreads to Tlatel

T10:
Archer reaches texcoco and fortifies

State of the Union
1turn to pottery, 4 turns to worker #2
Scout has explored Catherine's southern borders and is now moving to check out Khan's SW border.


Here's the save, and the roster:
- pling (Up)
- Eozenig (On deck)
- Dantski
- Corbeau
- Leitherrse (Just played)

110994

Got it! :)

Hopefully play later today, but I've a different SG that needs played first, so I may get to this one tomorrow instead.

T10:
Texcoco founded on black dot! We beat the Mongols by a narrow margin
Great ! :goodjob:

I have a very unpredictable work, so feel free to skip me if I take too much time to report, even if I posted a *got it*.

Pre-turn:
Nothing much to do. I notice that as soon as Beshbalik expands they'll get those horses. And we have no copper, whereas they do. I think we may need a bigger military sooner than we think.

Turn 1 (380BC):
We finish Pottery and I set us researching towards Iron Working, we're kinda desperate for miltary resources right now!

Turn 2 (360BC):
Nothing :coffee:

Turn 3 (340BC):
Our worker finishes with the sheep ... I'm making roads to the Deer & to the city up there.
Our scout becomes active, I'm going to go look around with him.
Teotichutan makes its Wall, I set it to build an Archer (to fortify in Tenoch). We've a lack of good offense, so hopefully no-one gets too angry with anyone else yet, as we'll make abysmal peacekeepers.

Turn 4 (320BC):
Tenoch finishes the Worker (who I set to building a cottage nearby), and I set it building the Pyramids (26 turns)- we've a lack of anything much to build and worst case this gives us a cash boost.
Tlateloco builds an Archer (who I fortify with a City Garrison promotion), and I set it building Walls.

Turn 5 (300BC):
Texcoco's borders expand.

Turn 6 (280BC):
Nothing :coffee:

Turn 7 (260BC):
Teotichutan builds an Archer (which will go to Tenoch) and I set it building a Granary.

Turn 8 (240BC):
Change my mind and make Teotichutan build another Worker.

Turn 9 (220BC):
Texcoco builds a Workboat (which makes fishing boats on the crabs) and I set it building Barracks.

Turn 10 (200BC):
Tlateloco builds its Walls, and I set it building a Granary.

The economy is recovering - we're making +1gpt, and Iron Working is down to 19 turns from 33 turns in the last 9 turns. I'd thought about another city, but I'm not sure there's the space in near the horses, the overlaps were pretty big - and I wasn't sure what we're supposed to do if a city revolts to us (given we're trying to keep all the culture borders as they are) so I was reluctant to push at Beshbalik too much.

Here's a picture of the world & our glorious empire!
http://ninecats.org/margaret/CivStuff/20060110/Civ4ScreenShot0005_small.JPG

We're doing pretty good on the culture :D
http://ninecats.org/margaret/CivStuff/20060110/culturegraph.jpg

But as far as power goes ... we suck. But we're not bottom of the pile, so all is well.
http://ninecats.org/margaret/CivStuff/20060110/powergraphEoZ1.jpg

Roster:
- Eozenig (Up)
- Dantski (On Deck)
- Corbeau
- Leitherrse
- pling (Just played)

Got it, will play in some hours hopefully.

200BC : Change Tex from barracks to granary
- MM Tenoch to work the cottage tile
- Put science slider at 60% (17 turns before IW - No profit but no deficit)

180BC : Hinduism spread to Teo
- Begins camp on deer ner Tex

100BC : Napoleon propose open borders >> I accept

80BC : Cottage finished near Tenoch >> MM to work on it >> IW due in 10 turns
- Send the worker to build a third one

60BC : Oracle built by Isabella
- Worker done at Teo >> Granary
- Send the worker to build a mine on the northern hill
- Put science slider back at 50% (IW in 10 turns)

1AD : Forest chopped near Tenoch >> Pyramids in 10 turns
- IW in 7 turns

http://img273.imageshack.us/img273/3213/iviewcapturedate11012006time18.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

We're still dead last in GNP. I'd suggest to research sailing after IW to get the advantages of the commerce of the coast tiles.
The great prophet will pop in the next set of turns by the way. I propose to build the hinduist shrine to get some gold and hopefully to convert some foreign cities.
We already exceeded our free support unit cost, take that in account if you want to build jaguars.
Instead of building the cottage, I'd suggest the worker near Tenoch continues to chop forests on grassland. It seems we can grab the pyramids :)
I promoted an archer of Teo with hillsman I and move it on the hill to block the way. He's still not fortified.

Eozen

Roster:
- Eozenig
- Dantski (Up)
- Corbeau (On deck)
- Leitherrse
- pling

Got it, will post a few turns shortly

While taking a glance over our Empire + possible research routes, I see our commerce stinks! :(

Sailing and Writing seem to be on the menu when IW is done.

Turn 1
Izzy not adhering to our express wishes, decides she needs to be the religion monster and adopts organised religion, with Toku already converted this could spell big diplomatic problems down the line.

Turn 2
I notice Khan has a few units close to our borders, hes also a bit boxed in with only 3 cities, could spell trouble for someone sooner or later.



Seems that someone is us.


IBT- Khan declares war on us!

Turn 3
Granary mania has swept the nation in previous turns and this ruler puts on hold this trend (young people today...) for some less groovy but far more pointy archerers of doom!
With this development, the worker who just completed a road for our camp north, heads to Tlat to chop a grassland hill tile, our mine in progress south (err...why was a mine being built?) stops to chop the trees there first.

Despite the outbreak of hostilities, only an axe (Combat 2) and Spear (Combat I City raider I) have entered our lands. In Khans lands we see a small stack of axe, spear and archer. In Beshbalik theres a couple Spears and archs.

Turn 4
Moses in born in Teno, and singlehandedly builds a shrine in less then a turn (sure is a miracle worker!).


This boosts us to +6 GPT at 50% research, since we aren't going to have the money to upgrade units vs Khan, I up the research to 60% which reduces our profit to +2 GPT but IW is cut down a turn which seems more valuable at this point.

Khans invading Axe + Spear move next to Tlat and it seems likely he'll attack it next turn. In response I promote an arch to garrison and the city should have no problem beating back these 2 units. It would be great if he only attacks the city and doesn't run around pillaging, since we have no way of mounting any kind of offensive without horses or copper (just pray we have Iron!:p )

His other stack in his own borders can swelled to include another Axe and Spear, he seems to be promoting Spears with Cover and Axes with Shock at the moment.


On a rather unrelated note, I'd like to get our scout to have a peek at GK's backline, I propose Open Borders with Caesar to get there and he accepts :)

Comments?

Triple post!

The graphs tell us Khan is the 2nd most powerful and we are the weakest. D'oh!

However we do have better production, so the longer this goes on, the more we should catch up...right?

Um, eep? At first glance, our best chance seems to be to crank out Archers and try to mob Khan and kick him out of our territory. Jags won't do much against Axemen.

This is a long shot, but I don't suppose that we have any chance at rushing to Feudalism? I mean, yeah, we don't even have IW yet, but Longbows would be HUGE (Better than Jags, and don't face a penalty against Axes).

If he's promoting with cover, though... ugh. Probably best to try to nab some Shock promotions for our Archers. I usually go with Drill, but that doesn't help much when hopelessly outclassed.

Oh, and don't forget to keep asking for peace in accordance with the variant rules. Rules which, by the way, are altogether likely to sink us if we don't build a military pronto.

[edit] Wow, I was wacky when I woke up. Sooo many typos. And I should clarify that I probably think that Drill will NOT work against Axemen. It would if we had longbows, but I doubt it'll do as much good with just Archers.

Bleah, just some more turns and we would had the chance to convert him thanks to the shrine :cry:
I agree with Corbeau about the cranking of archers with a drill promotion.

I'll be driving tomorrow and Saturday, and won't have a chance to play until Saturday night. If Corbeau plays this evening, then I'll have a chance to play, otherwise you can skip me for this round.

I should be able to play my turn this weekend, but Dante has to finish his turn first. :p

Ohh-based on the quantity of his posts, I guess I thought he had played all 10 turns-not complaining as it's a pretty important moment in Aztec history, just didn't realize. Then it shouldn't be a problem, as I'll be able to play Saturday night and thereafter.

Well after a small ear bashing on my last turn I thought I'd share what happened, see what you all thought and then that done....ignore all advice and do things my way:joke:

I'll finish the turns tomorrow, Corb can flex his muscles and figure out how to screw up his turn for now :p

A small addendum, at the end of Turn 4 I moved an archer in Teno to Teo to combat the incoming threat of the Mongol stack.

Turn 5
Our archer defeats the axe attacker easily at Tlat and after a city 2 promotion he heals fully in 1 turn. The spear seeing his friend die, hides in the nearby woods where our Silk is, unfortunately only one square away from a forest chopping worker, so I have to move him inside the city for protection.

Khan moves an archer and axeman onto our border

Turn 6
The Spearmen seeing his easy target run into the city turns his tail and heads back towards Beshbalik, however the new archer/axeman combo, move towards our grass mine and our stone.

Texcoco grows a pop (to 4) but doesn't work anything of interest.

Our scout can see quite a large defense in Khans backline city of Turfan, it also houses a settler.

Beshbaliks borders expand, this means he now has horse in range, however he may not have animal husbandry yet, since he isn't working the sheep that have been in his borders for a while. Animal Husbandry is needed for Horseback riding so it'll be some time before we see Keshiks I hope.

Not sure where, but our GPT is boosted and I up our research to 70% at +2 GPT.

Turn 7
Iron Working is ours at last! Sailing is ordered up.

The Pyramids are also built! This catapults us to #1 in score for now. Teno starts on our first Jag.

Iron is revealed and we have some right next to Teno! Good news however is mixed with bad news, its on our only half developed hamlet tile :rolleyes:
The good thing however is Khan doesn't have Iron, so without swordsmen or catapults for now, he'll only be able to pillage unless he throws a massive # of suicide units at our cities.

The invading Axe/Arch move towards our Stone, I move our hill promoted archer with a first strike promoted archer next to them on a forest/hill tile hoping to lure them into attacking me next turn.

Turn 8
Granary is built in Teo and works on another Jag. Tlat goes from archer to granary.

Unfortunately I think the AI has been improved in patches, since it ignores our archer bait and moves onto the stone. :eek: . This is a double whammy since our northern cities are no longer connected up. With the arch and axe just 2 turns away from Teno, I send an archer back to our capital.

D'oh! I totally forgot about Civics last turn, and I switch to Universal Suffrage as Variant rules dictate, at the moment, this Civic sucks for us, since its -1 GPT from Civic cost and we don' have any Towns let alone villages or hamlets yet :(

Turn 9
Alex proposes Open Borders and our new government agrees.

Judaism spreads to Texcoco, Hinduism to Rheims (miles away heh)

As we all already knew, the archer/axe pillage the stone and the road :(

Also in the distance a more meaningful stack looms...

Turn 10
Tlats Granary is done and the granary building age is almost at an end, it starts on an archer, good thing too since the stack that was sighted moves towards it, his invading axe+arch moves onto our Grassland mine.

On the plus side Napoleon converts to Hinduism! Hooray our first convert :cool: . For now our relations with him are only +2 (everyone seems to like Khan for some reason) but he could be a useful ally in our quest for peace later on.


At the moment, Khan will have to break a massive number of units on our walls if he wants to take a city, the 50% culture bonus should be enough to ensure our cities safety for now. The Iron will be hooked up in the next few turns, so we can look towards pushing Khan out of our land for now (he still refuses to talk). Considering Jags are basically weaker swordsmen, and that we don't intend to attack Khans cities, I'd suggest not building them as soon as Axemen are availible.

Pictures will follow! (since I don't know how to put them in posts properly)

Few more pictures (someone please tell me how to put them in posts properly!)

Owie. Well, at least we finished the Pyramids before Khan got to the stone. Looks like my turn gets to be regrouping and rearming. It'll probably get worse before it gets better. The AI simply isn't as dumb in wartime as in Civ3, so expect plenty of improvement losses. If we lose a city, we may as well throw in the towel considering our position. At least our Iron is fairly well protected, sitting on the east side of Teno.

Axemen will help though. And why'd we build a cottage on a plains tile anyway? :confused:

And why'd we build a cottage on a plains tile anyway? :confused:

Without looking at the save I can't be sure ... but that was probably me, and my thoughts were likely along the lines of 'Our economy's shot, lets do something to improve it' and that was what was possible with no buildings to build!

Ugh. Sorry guys, but I think I'm going to need a skip. I've been wiped out after a wonky week, and I still have as much homework as I can eat. I don't think I can handle a heavily military turn right now. :(

Ok, so here is the roster.
- Eozenig
- Dantski
- Corbeau (Skip)
- Leitherrse (Up)
- pling (On deck)

Got it, I'll play tomorrow.

Few more pictures (someone please tell me how to put them in posts properly!)

Lurker's Response: From another thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=146979&page=3), Sirian's instruction:

I keep a text file on my desktop whose contents looks like this:


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/

{img}http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/??.jpg{/img}


EDIT: Arrgh! :aargh: Stupid "code" tags are FAILING to display part of the code. :rolleyes: One wonders what is the point, then. :crazyeye:

Anyway... I had to substitude curly brackets for the straight ones that are actually there in my file.

The purpose is to never have to type all of that again. I open the text file, copy the applicable line (one is for images, the other for anything else), and then paste that line over and over and over for each use, editing only the file name.


I also use the Upload File option which is at the bottom of every CivFanatics forum page, third from the left in the bottow row of options.

Upload the files to the server (one at a time, unfortunately) and then link to them as shown above.

The site recommends using the forum attachment function so that you can erase files later, but why would anybody want to erase my SG files? :crazyeye: I go to all the trouble to write up these things. I hope to have people read them, even sometimes months after they were played, because new people will continue streaming in for a good while yet. :)

Anyway... Yes, that's part of being an SG newbie: figuring out how to work the attachment process. I should have posted something up front, but I forgot. :wallbash: Sorry. :mischief:


- Sirian


Nice SG, by the way! :goodjob:

Here's the first four, but I wanted to convene the council of war before going any further.

T0 - Iron mine in 3 (and axemen), cool. end turn

T1
-Tenoch: jag -> jag
-Teo: jag -> jag
-Tlatel: archer -> jag
-northern worker is hidden in tlatel for the moment
-archer in tlatel upgraded with city defense, given the opposition

T2
In tlatel:
-Archer (1.5) defeats axeman
-Archer (0.4) defeats axeman (given city defense 2)
-Archer (0) loses to spearman

We lose the mine north of Teo
Alexander attacks Caesar

T3
We lose two archers and kill 1 axeman at Tlael

current situation

Our forces:
-Archer (0.9) with city defense 1 and 2
-Warrior (2.0) with combat 1 and 2
-Jaguar at the end of the turn

Khan's forces:
-Axeman (0.8) with combat 1 and shock (in SE forest)
-Archer (3.0) with combat 1 (in SE forest)
-Spearman (2.6) with combat 1, shock and cover (on southern plain)
-Archer (0.2) (on southern plain)

non-iron worker is forced to retreat towards Tenoch
iron mine finished, starting on road (done in 3)

Teo is threatened by an axeman about to pillage the cows, and an incoming axeman 3ish turns away (we have an archer, a jaguar and a warrior, with another jaguar in 4 turns)

one more axeman approaches Beshbalik and Tlatel, but is far away

we also have an archer with hill defense and one with some other upgrade on a hill N-NE of Teo. since the bait tactic didn't work, we should move them to support one of our cities, i think-probably tlatel, but they're a couple turns away on open terrain where they might get destroyed, so what do you guys think?

I should have taken a screenshot, but I forgot, the game is closed and it is late. i'll throw one up tomorrow, but weigh in now.

I think I'd move the archers back to Tlatel - they're not doing any good out there given the AI didn't take the bait :( and worst case if they get destroyed on the way home then at least they'll take some health off the attacking unit (and that unit won't be attacking a city that turn).

Although, another thought occurs to me - do we have anything sat on the iron mine? Or are they too far away to make it worth sending them there?

we don't have anything on the iron mine, but i don't think we need to worry about it yet. there are no near enemy troops, and it is easily reinforceable from tenoch.

Sorry about the delay here, guys. I also just realized that I mislabeled turns and only took 9, but I'll ask pling to play the extra one and get us back on track as I won't have time for now.

T3 - Last step is to move one of the archers I mentioned towards Tlatel and 1 towards Teo.

T4 - Jag in Tlatel kills spear, axe, archer. I get our scout killed-whoops. Alex asks us to declare on Caesar, but we decline.
Tlatel: Jag->Scout
my thought is to use the jags as anti-archers, and axes in a couple turns as anti-melee, so i give our jag cover and kill off an archer, the last unit, around Tlatel.

T5 - at Teo, archer kills axe, cows are pillaged. Sailing -> Writing (open borders + missionaries)
Tenoch: Jag->lighthouse (until iron in 1 turns)

T6 - at Teo, archer kills axe. iron is hooked up.

Tlatel: Scout -> axe
Tenoch: switch to axe

T7 - Teo: jag->axe
khan's last aggressive forces i can see are 2 axes and a spear near tlatel

T8 - archer in teo kills one axe and loses to the other without damaging it. realize that we didn't have iron hooked up to tlatel yet, so we shouldn't have been able to start on an axe-forced to switch to archer

T9 - Khan's axe kills our last archer in tlatel, i stupidly lose our new scout.
Tlatel is still threatened by an axe and a spear, with one spear moving up. we have a jag and a warrior, an archer in 2 and a jag moving in from tenoch.

workers have been hooking things back up, as screenshot below will show.

112073

112074

112072

Got it! Will hopefully play this afternoon :)

Well, I got about three turns in and realised we'd not followed something about variant rules, so I thought I'd stop and ask people's opinions!

Turn 0 (280 AD)
User comment: All looks as well as can be
Tenochtitlan finishes: Axeman
Jaguar defeats (5.00/5): Mongolian Spearman
Jaguar defeats (5.00/5): Mongolian Axeman
Hinduism has spread: Marseilles (French Empire)

Turn 1 (290 AD)
Axeman promoted: Combat II
User comment: Got the workers banded together to make the quarry faster
User comment: Sent our shiny new Axeman off to Tlatelolco
User comment: The Khan is still refusing to talk
Tenochtitlan begins: Axeman
Tlatelolco finishes: Archer

Turn 2 (300 AD)
Tlatelolco begins: Axeman
Archer promoted: City Garrison I
Jaguar promoted: Shock
User comment: Tweak science rate to 60%, same time to get Writing, but +1gpt rather than -1gpt
User comment: The Khan is still refusing to speak to me!
User comment: Note that Julius and Alexander are at war, seems to be Alex's fault, and he's captured at least one of Julius's cities becuase he's razed it
Texcoco finishes: Granary

http://ninecats.org/margaret/CivStuff/20060119/JulyAlex.jpg

Turn 3 (310 AD)
User comment: Woohoo! Genghis offered us peace!
User comment: Alex refuses to declare peace with Julius, Julius would love to but it's not up to him

And at this point I re-read my printout of the rules and noticed that it said:

If he refuses and capture a city :
- We must declare war on him

So given Alex refused to declare peace and must've captured one of Julius's cities to have razed it ... we should probably have declared war a few turns ago! But we don't have that big an army, and I'm not sure we can get our army over to Alex anyway (well, not till we can get open borders with the Khan) - but I've not actually checked that.

What're people's thoughts? Obey the rules and declare war despite the futility of it at the moment? Or accept we slipped up when Alex captured the city (I don't remember noticing in it in a turn-log anywhere?) and leave it at that for now?

Given the city has been razed, there's nothing we can do about it :) That rule is intended for us to capture the oppressed city and give it back to his rightful owner.
But if we are presented that kind of situation, let's be pragmatic and declare war only if we are able to project our power there. But in the same time, if we don't have open borders to send our armies worldwide, we should develop a navy to be able to intervene in other countries.

Okidoks, that was my gut feeling, but I wanted to check :) I shall finish off my turnset this afternoon.

Turn 3 (310 AD)
Tech learned: Writing

Turn 4 (320 AD)
Research begun: Alphabet
Decided on Alphabet as we could do with trading in tech. Now not entirely sure that was wise:(
Moved workers to fix our road up north, started to build road on cows
Alex still won't make peace with Julius, though the option is white so if we only had something to bribe him with he likely would
Tenochtitlan finishes: Axeman
Teotihuacan finishes: Axeman

Turn 5 (330 AD)
Teotihuacan begins: Galley
Lots of micromangement, most of our cities were at their happiness cap, so they're as stagnant as I can get them, Teotihuacan wasn't at happiness cap, and is now growing rather than starving!
Tlatelolco finishes: Axeman
Hinduism has spread: Orleans (French Empire)

Turn 6 (340 AD)
Tlatelolco begins: Library
Alex still obstinant
Set workers to make a cottage near Tlat as all resources we can hook up are

Turn 7 (350 AD)
More cottages, Alex still obstinant

Turn 8 (360 AD)
Alex still obstinant, nothing else

Turn 9 (370 AD)
Julius asked for us to join his war against Alex, by our rules we had to agree so I did!
Tenochtitlan finishes: Lighthouse
Hinduism has spread: Edo (Japanese Empire)

Turn 10 (380 AD)
Tenochtitlan begins: The Great Lighthouse
Alex isn't talking now, so no asking for peace
Set workers to making a mine near Tlat

Turn 11 (390 AD)
Extra turn because previous turnset was short
Cumae has been captured by the Greeks - we need to give it back, if we can

A picture of our glorious empire:
http://ninecats.org/margaret/CivStuff/20060120/Civ4ScreenShot0002_small.JPG

And a view of where next with the war - the galley is nearly there, and I guess we start shipping a stack into Alex's land which is only a short hop :)
http://ninecats.org/margaret/CivStuff/20060120/Civ4ScreenShot0003_small.JPG

Got it. I will play in a few hours.
The diplomatic status on the last screen is frightening :lol:

Skip me, I dont have time at all to play... I'll be away for a few more days. I let know when I'm back on track.

- Eozenig (Skip)
- Dantski (Up)
- Corbeau (On deck)
- Leitherrse
- pling

Ok I'll have time tomorrow barring any possible Armageddon

Lurker's comments: I guess this game shows you really can't make everyone happy... by trying to be nice to everyone, you made everyone pissed at you XD
...or maybe it's just who the "everyone" is... Everyone on that list is a troublesome nutcase, lol.
EDIT because lime is a butt-ugly color, really.

Turn 2

Teo finshes its galley and starts on lighthouse.

Turn 3

The peace treaty with GK is cancelled, expect his next attack (its not if but when) to contain Keshiks now that he has horses hooked up.
Tex's barracks are done, the long road to a library begins.

Turn 7

Gk converts to Buddhism.

During the last few turns, our galley has entered Greek waters and as of yet, has seen no opposing navy. 3 units seems to be the norm in his 2 coastal cities.

Turn 9

Hinduism spreads to Tours.

Great Lighthouse is BIFAL, theres goes the chance of financing a half decent amount of research.

Turn 10

Teno - GLighthouse -> Library
Tlat - Library -> Spear

We receive 190 gold for the failed GL. I up our research to 70% for now.

Confucianism is founded, origin unknown.




At the moment, it feels like I'm just playing out a losing game. Our GNP and research are pitiful (alphabet in 25 turns?). Our cities at the moment cannot grow beyond a 4, 5 or 6, getting temples is a must. Also the variant means that unless we manage to find an island and settle there, we'll be stuck with the cities we have, considering our rivals will likely have astronomy way before us, this game seems almost hopeless already.

Sorry to be so negative, but I don't see where this game is going, and this set of turns as such, were not that much fun to play :(

In a way our saving grace is that we have the strongest production, but thats useless if we can't kick other civs about a bit

Well, this is a got it. But I think Dante is right. If production is our only advantage, it's something we need to leverage sooner rather than later. Unfortunately, the rules prevent us from doing so.

What now?

If we could just borrow some land from Khan (or at least irrigation with Civil Service), we might consider trying to get a farming/Caste System/Representation research system going eventually. But we're probably screwed by then anyway.

I should probably actually take a look at the save before I go totally ballistic though. ;)

This was a builder turnset, plain and simple.

T0:
Well. It doesn't look too good, long-term. Still, let's go back and look at our original objective: maintain peace & original borders. Not perfect already, but we can still try for the spirit of the rules. Unfortunately for us, our "original borders" encompass a small amount of territory. A moral victory may be all we are shooting for, but it's still possible to make it a fun game.

So if we have little land to work with, we need that land developed. And we need it yesterday. First of all, move guards onto our workers on the border. We really don't need to provide Khan with another temptation, especially now that he has horses that can nab workers with ease. Also set Tenoch to produce another Worker to put food production to use, plus we could use the extra hands. We have a few cottages, but they're not being worked. That needs to change, and does. Finally, we need happiness to increase our population. Set a detour to Priesthood, which is due in 4 turns at a tiny deficit.

T1:
Alex goes Confucian. No biggie.

T2:
Nothing happening this decade...

T3:
Even less goin' down now.

T4:
Here we go. Priesthood is in, and we go back to researching Alphabet. Tenoch Worker -> Hindu Temple. Teo Lighthouse -> Hindu Temple. Get Workers going on cottage construction.

T5:
Tlate Spear -> Hundu Temple.

T6:
Tenoch Hindu Temple -> Jewish Temple. Also realize that switching to Organized Religion would be a good idea, and only costs an extra 3gpt. Wish I'd thought of it earlier.

T7:
Alex is sending troops through Khan's lands. Just a Sword so far, but there'll be more to come. Teo Hundu Temple -> Library.

T8:
Dance troops around near Tlate to prevent Alex's City Raider Sword from entering our territory with terrain cover. We should have no problem killing him on open ground with Axes.

T9:
Another Greek Sword appears, this time to the south. We spot our first Mongol Keshik across the border.

T10:
Alex enters our territory, into a meaningless woods tile. Interpose an Axe between him and our nearest city. Khan moves an Axe and a Keshik up to the border. Tenoch Jewish Temple -> Spear. Swap Teo to Spear and move troops up from Tenoch just in case. Upgrade Warrior in Tlate to Spear and move to cover our Axe in the woods.

At this point I realize that the dates and turns remaining are off. I decide to play one more turn to even it out.

T11:
Alex walks into the open up north and Khan declines to enter our territory. We get unlucky though, and lose an Axe to Alex's Sword (we had over 80% chances of winning). A Shock Jag from Tlate flawlessly goes all Jedi on the Sword though, so we're fine (hella cool attack animation). Cover our Jag with a Spear.

Here's the current border situation. Quiet, but tense.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/EoZBorder.jpg

Roster Status:
- Eozenig
- Dantski
- Corbeau (just played)
- Leitherrse (up)
- pling (on deck)

Notes for the next player:
- At least one city is on Avoid Growth due to happiness problems. It was like this when I began the turn, and I neglected to build a temple in that city (though it's actually over the cap at the moment).
- Don't forget to build some military along with infrastructure (build Axes and Spears, since we don't have much need for more Jags). We have a ton of troops for our size, but Alex and Khan are the power leaders. Fighting both at once could be a very bad thing if we aren't careful.
- Try to keep working our cottages. While we've sacrificed our production advantage, it's necessary to have any hopes for the future. It'll take a while, but we'll have a significant improvement in our economy once the cottages grow into villages and towns.
- On research, I don't know. We should look into acquiring more happiness buildings, which probably means Mathmatics and the techs that follow it. I haven't taken a close look though.

The Save:

Got it, I'll play either tonight or tomorrow.

sorry-i actually don't think i'm going to have time today. skip me for this round

OK, I got it :) I'll hopefully have time this afternoon, but I'm rather busy today - if I don't get to it then it'll be tomorrow afternoon before I have a chance.

Sorry this took so long - real life intervened with inadequate quantities of sleep and copious quantities of beer :beer:

Turn 0 (600AD):
We don't seem to have any troops over in Alex's lands, and by the variant rules we can't declare peace till we've given Cumae back to the Romans. I intend to at least get something over there and find out where the damn city is so we know what we're trying to give back.
Financially, we're doing OK (60% science, +1gpt) and Alphabet in 3. Maybe we can do some tech trades, coz I bet we're behind.

Turn 1 (610AD):
Alex is moving his troops up towards Tlatelolco, promote the Axe/Jag with shock and move them onto a hill in Alex's way.
Fortify some troops in Tlatelolco, fortify a Jag/Spear pair on the Khan's border - I think the 'troop build-up' is just a heavy duty guard for a worker, but I'm not taking the chance.
Actually made Texcoco stagnant, it was still growing even with the avoid growth button on.

Turn 2 (620AD):
Killed Alex's sword with the Axe/Jag pair. Shouldn't be an issue defending against the chariot, either.
The Khan's troops left the worker behind, fortifying next to them clearly scared them off.
We're slipping down the scores :/

Turn 3 (630AD):
Alphabet is discovered - I go for Mathematics next, so that we can research Construction and get catapults sooner rather than later.
Tenochtitlan builds a spearman, I set it to build a library.
Tlatelolco builds a Hindu Temple, I set it to build an Axeman.
I trade Monotheism for Agriculture with Ceasar, and Polytheism+Alphabet for Meditation+Mathematics off Napolean.
Note that July and Nappy are pleased with us.
I set us to research Construction now.
I give our new Spearman a Shock promotion and send it off to the Galley.
I send a Worker down to the wheat to build a farm now we can.
I use the Axe/Jag pair to kill off Alex's chariot, unfortunately losing the Axe in the process, but still.
The Khan's troops done run away ;)
We're creeping back up the score chart now.

http://ninecats.org/margaret/CivStuff/20060129/CreepingBackUpTheScore.jpg

Turn 4 (640AD):
Jag moves to a hill to sit and contemplate the Khan.

Turn 5 (650AD):
MM Tlatelolco to stagnate as we're at the happiness cap, incidentally giving us many more hammers.

Turn 6 (660AD):
Teotihuacan builds a spearman, and appears to have a queue so automatically starts on a library which is what I'd've done anyway. Spearman sent off to the galley.

Turn 7 (670AD):
Alex's galley attacks our galley, and we win. Yay!
Tlatelolco builds an Axeman, I set it to build a Hindu Monastary for the science boost. Our Axe starts to head towards the galley - but I'll not leave the movement orders after my turn.
The Galley fortifies to heal.

Turn 8 (680AD):
Nothing

Turn 9 (690AD):
Tenochtitlan builds a Library, set it to build a Spearman.

Turn 10 (700AD):
The Khan demanded Alphabet, and as per the variant rules, I refused. The Khan declared and has a Stack'o'Doom on the border :/

http://ninecats.org/margaret/CivStuff/20060129/KhanStackofDoom.jpg

http://ninecats.org/margaret/CivStuff/20060129/ForeignRelations.jpg

Roster:

- Eozenig (Skip until he says he's back)
- Dantski (Up)
- Corbeau (On deck)
- Leitherrse
- pling (Just played)

(Oh, and sorry for all the edits if anyone was looking while I was going - my browser kept crashing when I tried to do the post all at once, so I did it in bits).

You should probably drop me here, I really don't see a victory in this game, thus never got around to getting the save in days.

Better to grab someone a little more enthusiastic I feel, sorry guys

I think that I agree with Dantski about where this is headed. It might be an interesting game if our rules allowed us to counterattack, but as is we're just going to keep getting pounded and fall behind even further.

Not a good situation.

Yeah, I don't think we can rescue it - given we can't give in to tribute demands we can't keep the Khan off our backs, and we can't wipe him out either :(