hey guys i am quite new to the game and new to this site so first of all sorry if this is in the worng place.

i have no idea how to mod this game or i would try myself, but i was woundering if anyone that can make mods, would consider making a basque civilalization. i wrote my masters disseration on the situation in the basque country, so could help i bit with back gorund city names etc, but other then that have no ideas all to proceed wioth turning them into a playable civ.

i additon i am dyslexic so pleas excuse the incorredct spellings i am sure are in this post!!

DT

I would like to take up this task.

In an anthropology class I read an ethnography by a Basque woman (Begona Aretxaga) about the feminist nationalist struggle in Northern Ireland.

That is very interesting that you wrote your masters dissertation on the Basque situation... I will try to get this done for you!

thats fantastic if you need any help with place/leader names etc i will be more then happy to help, i was thinking of sabino de arana as the leader, he was the first person to really put together the idea of the basques as a nation. he was just ,my suggestion, use someone else or stop me if i am wrong

cities of corse being things like bilbao etc. i am at work right now so dont have basque spellings or anythgin, but as i say i will provide any info i can that might need.

not meaning to rush you or anything, tkae your time and do it as and when you can, but how long does it take to make a mod like this??

It depends, it can take hours, but right now I'm slightly out of commission because I have a throat infection (and possibly the Flu).

I'll read some background information on the Basques to get a feel for those people. When you have a chance I would like to have from you a Basque city list (preferably in the original Basque language).

yeah of course!!!

what i will do is make you a list with the orginal basque names, and then also the english version eg bilbao socidad and san sabastien i think all have differnt names in basque, how many city names do you want??

and thankyou so muCH !!!!!!!!

At least 20, preferably more. Chechnya has 22 cities, and generally 20-24 is a recommended number...

Dont Worry I Will Have Your Civ Done Soon. The Capitol Will Be Belfast And Other Basque Cities

You mean Belfast, North Ireland? :p

capital --> Vitoria
Others-->
Bilbao - San Sebastian - Baracaldo - Sestao - Llodio - Eibar - Irun - Tolosa
Beasain - Vergara - Pasajes - Azpeitia - Fuenterrabia - Guernica - Bermeo
Santurce - Zumarraga - Durango - Ermua - Basauri - Zarauz


Leader : Sabino Arana (Spiritual , Aggressive ) or Spiritual/Financial --> I prefer spiritual+aggressive
http://es.geocities.com/gce_euzkadi/imagenes/fotos/sabino_arana.jpg
UU: Guerrillero(replaces rifleman)
Favorite Civic : Organized Religion
Starting Technologies: Mysticism, Hunting
Flag: http://www.libreriadenautica.com/portadas/BPV-2.jpg

All of this is only an opinion.I'm spanish and i studied it.

to be hounest i think thats a great list black eye!

i thought giving the civ the name of Euskal herria?

i did have a few of the basque towns/cities on the french side on my list as well, bayonne, st jean de luz, and st jean pied de port.

i also toyed with the idea of having gurnica as the capital not for size of course but for historicall importnace?

my idea for teh flag was the same as yours, and i also agree with the leader, though i thought maybe throw industrail in there, sabino himself wasn't maybe but the basque country was one of the most highly industrailised parts of spain????

what do you think shqype is that enough cities there for you?

thanx so much guys for helpin me hopefully be able to play as the basques!!!

ps definatly NOT belfast lol

yes, guernica was more important than vitoria...but now country basque capital is vitoria, country basque is not dead ^^, so we should use actual name.this is only an opinion.
refered to industrial... sabino was extremely religious, really country basque is industrial, but the characteristics are for the leader,not the civ, and sabino was poorly industrial

yeah i will go with all that black eye!!!

now hopefully shqype will be able to spare some time to make it

Are you sure all those city names are Basque? I've seen Bilbao under the Spanish before ... I would prefer purely Basque city names compared to the Spanish and French, but I understand its not always possible. BlackEye, I appreciate your help, but I found this on wikipedia. I'm not sure if it's the same guy or not, but he seems like a good leader:
The Kingdom of Navarre was during a very short period of time the only political entity to encompass the Basque Country on both sides of the Pyrenees. The kingdom reached its greatest size under Sancho III of Navarre (c. 985–1035). It incorporated most Basque-speaking lands, among others, but was divided repeatedly after his death. In 1512, the troops of Ferdinand II of Aragon took the Southern part, but Basse-Navarre, north of the Pyrenees remained independent until 1620 when it was incorporated into France, with which it had been in personal union since 1589, when the King of Navarre inherited the French throne.

Since the time of Sancho III, there has been no single government over all seven territories. Basque nationalism emerged in the 19th century as the aspiration for such a nation state. In the 1980s, the Spanish state devolved into autonomous communities, of which the Spanish Basque Country became the Basque Country. Against the wishes of Basque nationalists but favoring the wishes of most the population of Navarra, Navarre established itself separately with little cultural collaboration. More recently, cross-border meetings among the Basque regions have been sponsored by the Atlantic Arc Commission of the European Union.

I already began work on the mod, but its mostly generic things now... I'm waiting for a more concrete list of cities in the Basque language, and a decision on their leader.

Basque Country:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4f/Euskal_Herria_carte_%C3%A9tiquet%C3%A9e.png

Basque Flag:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/51/Basque_Country_Flag.png

Southern Basque Country

* Álava (Araba in Basque)
* Guipúzcoa (Gipuzkoa in Basque)
* Navarre (Nafarroa in Basque, Navarra in Spanish)
* Biscay (Bizkaia in Basque, Vizcaya in Spanish)

Northern Basque Country

* Lower Navarre (Behe Nafarroa in Basque, Basse-Navarre in French)
* Labourd (Lapurdi in Basque)
* Soule (Zuberoa in Basque)

All of this from wikipedia.

Here are some Basque city names (wikipedia):

The current autonomous Basque area of Spain, known as "Euskadi" in Basque, "País Vasco" in Spanish, "Pays Basque" in French and the "Basque Country" in English, is composed of three provinces or territories: Araba/Álava, Bizkaia/Vizcaya and Gipuzkoa/Guipúzcoa (in each case, this is the Basque name followed by the Spanish name). There are 2,123,000 people living in the Basque Country: Araba, 279,000; Bizkaia, 1,160,000; and Gipuzkoa, 684,000. The most important cities are: Bilbo/Bilbao (in Bizkaia), Donostia/San Sebastián (in Gipuzkoa) and Gasteiz/Vitoria (in Araba). Both Basque and Spanish are official languages. Knowledge of Spanish is virtually universal; 27 per cent of the people speak the Basque language, but this number is increasing for the first time in many centuries.

Bilbo, Donostia, and Gasteiz are the kind of Basque city names that we need. I'll continue to look, but Dawntreader, if you have them handy, please make it easy for me...

Ok personally i would agree with Blackeye.

Civ = EUSKAL HERRI
leader = Sabino Arana (spritual, aggressive, organised relgion)
banner = basque flag on its side

cites Basque name first then spainsh/french in brackest after each one, french cioties also marked with a (f) some name are the same if i couldn't find basque name or if the are the same anyway

Gastaiz (vitoria) - Bilbo (bilbao) - Donostia (san sabastien) - Iruna (pampalona) - Gernika (guernica) - Balona (bayonne (F)) - donibane garazi (st jean peid du port(F)) - Donibane lohitzun (st. jean de luz(F)) - Miarritze (biarrizt (F)) - Mauleon (mauleon(F)) - uztaritze (ustaritze(F)) -barakaldo (baracaldo) - Eibar (eibar) Tolosa (tolosa) - sestao (sestao) - Llodio (lliodio) - Beasain (beasain) - azpeitia (azpeitia) - honadarribia (funenterrabia) - Bermeo (bermeo)

Thanx so much guys am dead excited now!!!!

Dt

i write to up the post

Like I said I started working on this civ and I'll resume working on it again now.

thanks shqpye i am so gratful and thankyou blackeye for the city list

OK BlackEye, now I need your help again.

The Basque UU which you suggested, "Guerrillero(replaces rifleman)," can you give me some background information about this? From where did you get this UU idea and how should it look like? Do you have pictures? With information on what this unit did we can decide how to make it unique (what attributes to give it in combat).

Also, a problem I am having: the Flag Decal is not working! (This is the in-game flag that the units carry around and the flag at the bottom of the screen).

Currently it stays only red. I need someone to help me fix this problem...

EDIT: http://www.angelfire.com/ny5/marknika/FlagDECAL_Basque.dds

an alternate unique unit could be some thing form the 1500's the period yopu suggested drawing the leader form?

The leader I brought up was (unknowingly at the time) Spanish. To the Basque people (especially those with the ideology of Sabino Arana) that is offensive.

Guerrilla or "Maqui" (prefers maqui)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Group of "maquis":

http://es.geocities.com/eustaquio5/guerr_navarros10bgda.jpg

The typical weapon :

http://es.geocities.com/eustaquio5/sten_mk3.jpg

The weapon is from england,they used it in the beginning

My opinion: I think the "guerrillero" or "maqui" should begin with one bonus, the Woodsman I , because they fight principally in the pirineos and forests of country basque, so +20% defense in forest and jungle is good.
"Guerrillero" could replace rifleman but with 2 in movement because their activities were sigilous and faster ... like shadowmen ( :lol: )

More information:

http://es.geocities.com/eustaquio5/paisvasco.html
and
http://es.geocities.com/eustaquio5/navarra.html <-- if the photos aren't showed,they are here

that is a good point shqpye.

snd a good unique unit as well. somefthing like standard rifel men with +1 movement and the extra defenc in woods, sounds like an idea to me! although is that not a bitterrain spcific, and may due to game placement be largly redundant. but maybe even with just the extra movement would be enough!

again thanx guys

BlackEye, it is important if you can find something in English. This is what wikipedia returned on searching for Maqui:

The term maquis may refer to:

* The Cameroonian maquis, guerrillas from the outlawed Union des Populations Camerounaises political party;
* The Corsican maquis democracy of the 18th century;
* The maquis shrublands found in France, Corsica, and elsewhere around the Mediterranean Sea;
* The French maquis, who resisted the Nazis during World War II;
* The Spanish maquis, guerillas who resisted the Francisco Franco regime after the Spanish Civil War;
* The Maquis in the fictional Star Trek universe, an anti-Cardassian resistance movement named for the French maquis;
* The Maquis Forces International, a Star Trek fan organization.

Notice how it doesn't say anything about the Basque people...

* The Spanish maquis, guerillas who resisted the Francisco Franco regime after the Spanish Civil War;


this is the "maqui" i say

The maquies were all over spain but especially in the pirineos (navarra,country basque ...) so i choose them to be the UU ... other basque milice i don't know, sorry

I understand. So now the problem is that the UU name is Spanish (or French) in origin and NOT Basque, and this unit is not even unique to the Basques...

Seems to me we need another candidate for UU.

Thanks for your help so far BlackEye.

uhm....perhaps we can use the basque police called ertzaintza

some photos:
http://www.elbatzoki.com/ertzaintza/ertzaintza.jpg
the "avatar":
http://gblx.cache.el-mundo.net/especiales/2002/10/nacional/pais_vasco/images/ertzaintza.gif


ertzaintza could replace marine ... i don't know

still lookin for ;)

other then th ertzaintza, i am short on ideas now but as to what ablity they could have to make them unique i am unsure, as i undersatnd it they are a paramilitary police force.

this could be becasue for the most part the basques have bene split between the two states france and spian

http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gudari ... look this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gudari

I see that Eusko means Basque ... Sabino Arana coined the term for the Basque Country as "Euzkadi" (which probably means something more like 'Basqueland' or 'Land of the Basques').

It's kind of you to help us out BlackEye, because so far you're the only one with the best opinion of what type of UU to have for the Basques.... unless a Basque comes along to help us!

i seem to recall reading that the basque played a large part in ejeceted the moors form the iberian pennisula, i will have a further read and see if i can find anything form that kind of time we could use

If worst comes to worst then I'll just use something like "Basque Army Soldier," although I would prefer a more unique unit with a name from the Basque language...

hmm reading most of books i am struggling. except maybe for using black eyes basque police suggestion.

althoguh as mentioned earlier the basque region of spain at l;east is v industrilised maybe somthin simmerlar to the indian fast worker to represent that?

with regard to a name for the civ i would go with Euskadi
"In the 19th century, the Basque nationalist activist Sabino Arana created the neologism Euzkadi for his purported independent Basque Country" wikipeadia

or
euskal herria again from wikipeadiea
The Basque Country (Euskal Herria in Basque)

The Civ name will be Basque Country (as opposed to Basque Empire) but the short name will be Euzkadi, so the leader represents himself as Sabino Arana of Euzkadi, a term he himself created.

wouldn';t Euskal Herria be better as it mean "basque country" but i basque. it is of course totally upto you! its your mod!! once again thankyou very much! its soundeding good!!!!! looking forward to it!!!

Shqype, BlackEye's "Gudari" is a word for "Basque Soldier", I think thats a unique enough word to go with. How about instead of 2 movement, the commando promotion? It would be more situational than just 2 movement, but I think it would be fitting since as guerillas they're able to blend in with enemy civilians.

Dawntreader, I think Basque Country is better for the long name than something actually in Basque. Things within the mod, like city names and UU, can be basque, but you want non-basque speakers to know what the heck your civilization is supposed to be. In all the in-game civilizations, when the civilization refers to itself as something else in their own language, the game chooses the English name for the civilization for clarity. Of course if you were ambitious enough you could make a mod to translate the whole game into Basque, but thats quite a bit harder than adding a civ.

thats true however i dont speak basque!!

and good point re the name of the civ, what exaclty does commando promo give?? but the name at least fits the idea!

all seems to be coming together !!!!

Thanks Errata, but my only concern was if Gudari was a Spanish word or not. That is the only thing that would make me want to choose something else. This is what a wikipedia search on Gudari comes up with:

Euzko Gudarostea (modern spelling: Eusko Gudarostea, "Basque army") was the name of the army commanded by the government of the Basque Autonomous Community during the Spanish civil war. It was formed by Basque nationalists, Socialists and Communists, under the direction of lendakari José Antonio Aguirre and coordinating with the army of the Second Spanish Republic. It fought the troops of Francisco Franco during 1936 and 1937. It surrendered to the Italian Corpo Truppe Volontieri at Santoña (Santander province), while the rest of the Republican army kept fighting until 1939. This event is referred as the Treason of Santoña by Spanish leftists.

Dawntreader, the reason Errata explained is why I chose "Basque Country" as the long, empire name (so people can understand what it is!). But I kept the Basque with the city names and the short description, Euzkadi.

Now if you could get me some pictures of the Basque Army soldiers, perhaps MeteorPunch would be kind enough to do another skin and help me out. Then the only remaining problems would be the flag, after which is fixed, I can finally release this civ!

The problem with the Commando promotion is that it is too powerful of a promotion to carry over... When the Basque UU Gudari upgrades to Infantry, then to Mech Infantry, that is 3 units that will be gifted the Commando promotion.

If some other users think that this is fine then I will instate it, but I have a feeling this is slightly imbalanced and may be a little too powerful...

PS- Do you think the UU would be more fitting as a Rifleman or an Infantry? From what I can tell they came into existance during the first half of the 20th century....

as to which it should be i am not sure tho would prob go for riflemen, and if u think using commado would make them unbalaced the +1 movement would also fit to an extent by giving them the 'speed' to melt away again after an attack

Yeah, I agree that the fact that it carries over to later eras makes commando too powerful. I wonder if the commando promotion is hardcoded or if it just has some xml attribute that can be specified directly into the unit.

I'm not sure whether they'd be rifleman or infantry. Given that its between WW1 and WW2, I'd lean toward infantry. Their weapon looks like some kind of cartridge based semi-automatic, so they're certainly more technologically advanced than 18th century riflemen.

So the Gudari should be an Infantry with 2 movement instead of 1 ... any other modifiers you think of adding? Maybe 10% city attack or defense, or 20% forest/jungle defense, or 20% hills defense?

i would suggest maybe a plus 10% city defnece in addition to the movement?

That's a good idea in my opinion. I'll implement it now.

shqype & co. no need more help?

The only thing that is keeping me from releasing the Basque civ is a reskinned UU.

I need a Basque version of the Infantry, reskinned to look like an Euzko Gudari ... once I get that I can release the first version.

Unfortunately I am not good at graphics and skinning so I'm stuck until someone can do it for me ...

I suppose it may be a little too late to suggest "Etarra" as a special unit? :)

Not if you can explain to me what "Etarra" is and tell why it should be the Basque UU ...

Etarra is the name for ETA operatives, ETA being the basque freedom fighters who were formed under Franco. Play a fairly major role in Basque history.

Don't you think Euzko Gudari works better? They are the "Basque Soldiers" that even comprise the ETA today.

i don't think ETARRAS to be a UU ... they are terrorists,not a UU, at the beginnin they were different,but now they are terrorists,
to kill people because your freedom cause is the same as bush does in Irak

shqype, sorry but i'm really bad with graphics(i have never done any :S )

Don't you think Euzko Gudari works better? They are the "Basque Soldiers" that even comprise the ETA today.

Either or. I just thought ETA might be better, because they never surrendered. ;) If you do the EG, I think I have an image of them that may be useful:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v420/watchthecitiesburn/basquewoodcut.gif

If you choose the Etarra, I have images of them as well that you could use for reference. And for a basque logo on the flag, perhaps this (minus the ETA, of course):

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v420/watchthecitiesburn/stencillogo.gif

i don't think ETARRAS to be a UU ... they are terrorists,not a UU, at the beginnin they were different,but now they are terrorists,
to kill people because your freedom cause is the same as bush does in Irak

Most of their victims have been legitimate targets, if I recall correctly, and they've abandoned the use of killing as a tactic, for better or worse. I won't get into the politics of national liberation tactics here, though. I think they would work well as an UU.

I like that snake and hatchet symbol ... can you explain the significanse?

I'm using the actual flag with the red, white, and green as their current game flag.

The axe is a basque axe, the type used by basque woodcutters and so on. The symbols represent strength and intelligence/cunning, roughly. Perhaps you could incorporate the axe/snake logo onto the Basque flag?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v420/watchthecitiesburn/logoandflag.gif

Edit: I can try to find a better version of the snake/axe, if that would help?

Right now it would be too much ... the flag symbol is already crowded with the 3 different colors, and adding that to the mix would be too messy. Besides, I couldn't get it to work and asked LAnkou to do it for me; right now its not of utmost importance to bother him again.

When I release the civ, test it out and tell me what you think ... we'll see generally what people like and dislike about it ... and if necessary, then perhaps we can make changes.

No worries, the basic Basque flag is plenty cool on its own. :-)

Are you Basque by any chance? If so you could probably help me with custom Basque sounds and diplomacy music ...

Unfortunately I am not, but I do know a good bit about the history and am interested in the culture and all. What sort of stuff are you looking for?

Basque Order and Select sounds (so they say phrases in Basque when you click on the units and give settlers/missionaries orders)..

Also dipomatic music that would fit Sabino Arana ... he was a Basque nationalist that created many of the neologisms used today, thus patriotic basque music instrumentals should probably do fine ...

There's some Basque music here:

http://www.txistulari.com/musika.htm

Some of the songs also have brief spoken parts before them. :)

Edit: I am somewhat partial to this song. It sounds fairly inspiring:

http://www.txistulari.com/mp3/ibaiona.mp3

This is very good Kale Borroka, finally the Basques can have their own music!

Order and Select sounds would still be useful though if someone could record them.

I know a couple of the music files on the site I linked to have spoken bits before them, perhaps you could cut those out and use them? Just a thought, otherwise I can try hunting around for some spoken Basque recordings tomorrow.

The thing is I don't know what they mean (I can't speak Basque), so it could be that they are completely unrelated to the Order and Select sounds.

For example, let's say I need Select sounds such as "Waiting for orders" or "Tell me what to do," but the snippet is from a love song saying "I love you so much!"

It wouldn't fit ... not that we would be able to tell anyway, but I still don't feel right doing something like that.

i think using ETA as the unique unit is a bad idea, on a par with using teh IRA for irelend, also using the snake/hatchet, logo is also a bad idea as it is a recognised ETA symbol. to be houset kale, i agree with you, re legitmate targets etc, but this isnt the time or the place for political disucssion.

thankyou greatly for your input, (this was my request initally which shqype has been good enough to undertake!!)

The thing is I don't know what they mean (I can't speak Basque), so it could be that they are completely unrelated to the Order and Select sounds.

For example, let's say I need Select sounds such as "Waiting for orders" or "Tell me what to do," but the snippet is from a love song saying "I love you so much!"

It wouldn't fit ... not that we would be able to tell anyway, but I still don't feel right doing something like that.

Yes, you're right that could be a problem. Hmm. Well, I know a couple Basques, I'll see if I can come up with anything.

DT- Yes, you're right. Though I wouldn't mind using the IRA as the Irish unit, I suppose others would, being more sensible in their politics than I am. ;) I thought the Hatchet, at least, had some significance to Basque left nationalists outside of ETA?

That would be great if some Basques can help record Order and Select sounds ... it would add a nice Basque flavor to the civ to make it more genuine.

Kale Borroka, were I to make an Irish civ I would definitely use the IRA as their UU (I support the IRA and their legitimate cause).

The reason I use the Gudari instead of the ETA is because most of the ETA are in fact Gudari (Basque Soldiers), and the Gudari is more in the time-frame of Sabino Arana than the ETA is. Plus, the fact that some people consider the ETA terrorists plays a slight role as well... at least with the Gudari it keeps a positive image of the Basque people, where the ETA might change that.