i think taste of the milking is over. : )).always duel and small maps will enter the Hof.: ((.i dont like to play with small maps.my favorite is at least 100hour playing. : ) :cry: :cry: :cry:

Have you try yo play on a huge map ?

i think taste of the milking is over. : )).always duel and small maps will enter the Hof.: ((.i dont like to play with small maps.my favorite is at least 100hour playing. : ) :cry: :cry: :cry:
Try changing the down drop selections. There are a lot more HoF tables then Score and Any Size. There are plenty of spaces for all size maps and victory conditions. SO go forth and Conquer, Dominate, or well you get the idea... :)

But still, people want to see big numbers. What about having a map factor multiplier? Let's say you get 0.4 on a duel map, 0.6 on tiny map, 0.8 on small map, 1.0 on standard map, 1.2 on large map and 1.4 on a huge map. Similar to the difficulty level modifiers that firaxis patched in with the first patch. I think that would go a long way towards evening map sizes out.

But still, people want to see big numbers. What about having a map factor multiplier? Let's say you get 0.4 on a duel map, 0.6 on tiny map, 0.8 on small map, 1.0 on standard map, 1.2 on large map and 1.4 on a huge map. Similar to the difficulty level modifiers that firaxis patched in with the first patch. I think that would go a long way towards evening map sizes out.
Something like that was added by Firaxis in patch 1.09.

Something like that was added by Firaxis in patch 1.09.

For difficulty level, not map size. I'm suggesting a second modifier for map size.

'Fraid not Denniz, you're getting mixed up between mapsize and difficulty.

For difficulty level, not map size. I'm suggesting a second modifier for map size.
'Fraid not Denniz, you're getting mixed up between mapsize and difficulty.
Oops. You're right. :blush:

But since land is a component of score already, wouldn't it be redundant? Bigger map = bigger score.

But since land is a component of score already, wouldn't it be redundant? Bigger map = bigger score.

No, civ4 calculates score based on percentages instead of totals. So if you're at the domination limit on a huge map and at the domination limit on a duel map at the same turn number and same speed then you get the same territory score. I don't understand exactly how to calculate score (Dianthus's formula confuses me) but that's the general gist of it.

Dianthus's formula confuses me
Don't blame me, it's not MY formula, I just typed it up from the Python code ;).

No, civ4 calculates score based on percentages instead of totals. So if you're at the domination limit on a huge map and at the domination limit on a duel map at the same turn number and same speed then you get the same territory score. I don't understand exactly how to calculate score (Dianthus's formula confuses me) but that's the general gist of it.
So you are saying that I am 0 for 2, then. I guess I don't understand the formula, either. :crazyeye: Maybe I should just get back to work. :mischief:

Have you try yo play on a huge map ?

no.my first game was huge map but it is not for my computer.i waited 5 min to load the map.and i understand that it is not for my computer. :)


Try changing the down drop selections. There are a lot more HoF tables then Score and Any Size. There are plenty of spaces for all size maps and victory conditions. SO go forth and Conquer, Dominate, or well you get the idea... :)


yes that is true but i only want to get the first place.i love to play civ3 . yesterday i played my first civ4 game.i think civ 3 is much more better .i enjoy civ 3 , in civ4 i only end the turn.:confused: .epic speed kills the game.20 turn for a worker at the beginning..:eek: .look at the Svar's settler game(i love his playing style) ,it was 19:38:04 .:).eheheh his other Civ3 games are at least 200+ hours.
yesterday i played an epic settler game with Rome.it was a 3 hour game and my score is 50000+.Svar's game is 36668 with hude map size .i didnt want to end the game.i was bored.it is a Strategy game and it was 3 h.if you want to make a good score you have to play with small map.

What about having a map factor multiplier? Let's say you get 0.4 on a duel map, 0.6 on tiny map, 0.8 on small map, 1.0 on standard map, 1.2 on large map and 1.4 on a huge map.

that will be a good idea for the huge maps.at least we try to play with a big map and enjoy the game .(i only research civil service for epic games. :))

You know, looking at some scores that I've gotten and also moonsinger's statement that she gets higher scores on a standard map than a duel map I'm going to try a bigger map for my next milked game. If I do another emperor game with the same settings except with standard instead of duel it should be easy to tell if it's true or not that smaller maps can equal the best scores on bigger maps. I got 173,000 on my emperor duel map.

173,000 on my emperor duel map: I'm going to die.......... :cry:

173,000 on my emperor duel map: I'm going to die.......... :cry:

i think if you have a very good map and lucky for huts maybe you can make a 85000+ for settler.

You know, looking at some scores that I've gotten and also moonsinger's statement that she gets higher scores on a standard map than a duel map I'm going to try a bigger map for my next milked game.


i dont know the formula for score but i think bigger map doesnt important for big scores.if you can get the dom limit at the same time you can get the same point.(only important is the population for bigger maps.but it is not very effective than the domination limit time.)but it is impossible to reach the dom limit for bigger maps.so we need another calculation system for bigger maps. :D :D

i dont know the formula for score but i think bigger map doesnt important for big scores.if you can get the dom limit at the same time you can get the same point.(only important is the population for bigger maps.but it is not very effective than the domination limit time.)but it is impossible to reach the dom limit for bigger maps.so we need another calculation system for bigger maps. :D :D

Population is the most important factor by far. My 171,900 emperor game (I must have lost 1100 points trying to trigger domination) went past 1000AD and I teched all the way to biology.

But Moonsinger's scores in particular don't make sense to me unless map size does matter. If I go for a quick domination on emperor duel map I only get like 80,000 points. So on deity that should only be 2.0/1.6 * 80,000 = 100,000. How is she getting 280,000? It must be the map size. I can't imagine the score she'd get if she were able to grow her cities out at the end.

You just said 280.000 scoring point ?????????
:( :( :( :( :(

Sorry Moonsinger is she ?
It a nickname I heard a lot in HOF and GOTM for civ2 and civ3!!!

Sorry Moonsinger is she ?
It a nickname I heard a lot in HOF and GOTM for civ2 and civ3!!!
Yes, Moonsinger is a she. And as well known as she was in HOFIII, it's starting to look like it'll be likewise in IV.

if population is the the most important factor by far , i think Svar made a big mistake.:D

Well I've concluded my test. Larger maps do get better scores.

246,000 on standard map on emperor using the same strat as I used on the duel map for only 171,000.

I can still improve a bit on my strategy as well. I also think it can be pulled off on immortal. I don't think deity is possible on a standard map without using the anarchy exploit. But I might try a bigger map on emperor before I try immortal.

edit: Actually I shouldn't say it's the same strat. I didn't use hereditary rule this time because it wasn't needed, since you have the full sampling of happiness resources available to you on a standard map.

Well I've concluded my test. Larger maps do get better scores.

246,000 on standard map on emperor using the same strat as I used on the duel map for only 171,000.

I can still improve a bit on my strategy as well. I also think it can be pulled off on immortal. I don't think deity is possible on a standard map without using the anarchy exploit. But I might try a bigger map on emperor before I try immortal.

edit: Actually I shouldn't say it's the same strat. I didn't use hereditary rule this time because it wasn't needed, since you have the full sampling of happiness resources available to you on a standard map.



i really need a strategy guide for Civ 4.what is your strategy for your emperor game?if you play lower levels they are ok for me too.(like your tech startegy and expanding your land.)

and i have a problem.i cant control the culture because of the religion.i cant disband a city .so dom limit is a big problem while milking for population.how can i fix that???
and one more thing..i got domination victory with %73,2 -% 72,9 and 74,1.i think it was a mistake but it happened 3 times.:mad:

Well I've concluded my test. Larger maps do get better scores.Any theories as to why this is the case? (I assume everything was same except for map size.)

The scoring formulas would suggest that smallest maps with slowest speed would score best all things being equal. (i.e less distance to travel to achive dom limit with more time to do it.)

My guess would be that the computer estimated "best" scores for the map are underestimated on larger maps and/or overestimated on smaller ones.

edit: Oh I did change the game speed. It was marathon on the duel map and epic on the standard map. That was my first ever marathon game and I found it extremely boring and just way too slow. I'm sticking to epic from now on.

edit2: I'll do a writeup in a seperate thread.

i played that game with tiny and that game changed my opinion on the small maps are the best .:D .my best duel is 70000 points but that was much more better.:goodjob:

and by the way why some of my games dom limit triggered at 72,2??????????

Interesting name. You can change that away from your computer name in the Civilization.ini file, look for "Alias = " and fill that.

As to your question its based on the size and land area, so some of those traits vary from game to game.

Interesting name. You can change that away from your computer name in the Civilization.ini file, look for "Alias = " and fill that.

As to your question its based on the size and land area, so some of those traits vary from game to game.

thanks for the tip but i love that name.and i never finish a game with %75 of the domination limit.always lower and i never know what will the limit is so i always stay under %70:mad: ..

eheh.i think bigger map is the best if you can expand fast enough :D ...
it is 10000+ points better than my tiny map game.but it was harder to expand.i will play a bigger map:p ..

and by the way why some of my games dom limit triggered at 72,2??????????

Domination has two factors - population AND land. I'm at work so I not sure the exact percentages but I know if you pass the required percentage in one you will not win until you pass the second requirement as well. Normally the requirement you passed first will continue to build hence 72% in one of the catagories. For me that is usually population way over required amount and land just hitting the requirement to trigger the win.

i think Julius Caesar is not the best leader for lower lvls(settler and Chieftain).i think an Organized and Spiritual(Asoka) leader is better for lower lvls.
health is not very important for settler or Chieftain but if you need to change the civic it will be a big problem.if you have a anarchy for 3 turns you will lose 3k points from 110k to 107k for settler.if you play long enough you will lose 10 turns for civics.:cry: :cry: :cry:

Cheap granaries and lighthouses are what's important about expansive civs. How many times do you need to change civics? Not many.

oo it is good for expantion but.1 for Hereditary Rule(1 turn i think).Bureaucracy(i turn for this).Caste System (i think 2 turn).Free Market (damn it is now 5 turn for me.forget to get it).2 turn for Organized Religion .nearly 10 turn for anarhy.and no production .losing points.:mad: .but for now i dont need health.i have lvl17 city but i have still health. :D .i think modifier is +6 health for settler.

i am playing a settler game with osaka.huge map and marathon game speed..320 ad my score is 178000 .i reasearched the biology 10 turns ago.i am at the domination limit.( %3 for limit).i have maybe 20 cities with 2-3-4 population.and i think my score will be 190k maybe 200k.
i am comparing the score with the other games and it is too big.:confused: .at the beggining i thought i was playing 1,09 but i think only 1,52 has the marathon game speed.am i making a mistake??

i finished my first 1,52 game.but at the start file it says map already used.what is that mean??.used by another player??or what?.it is a settler huge marathon game.with osaka.

i finished my first 1,52 game.but at the start file it says map already used.what is that mean??.used by another player??or what?.it is a settler huge marathon game.with osaka.
It means that the map is already in the HoF Database. In looks like you may have submitted your game already. What order did you do things? If you check the game after you submit it then it would be in the database.

If it was a different game then the one you submitted a little while ago, please send the save file to hof@civfanatics.net so we can check it out.

What order did you do things? If you check the game after you submit it then it would be in the database.


:blush: i first submit and check the game.it was accepted.:) .

coasts are in the domination limit.??????

My guess would be that the computer estimated "best" scores for the map are underestimated on larger maps and/or overestimated on smaller ones.

Yes, I think it is that.

The population limit does not take into account resources (I have not checked terrain), and I would suspect that on the types of world people are playing the bonus reward / bad land ratio is positive, so the larger the map the larger the number of rewards, and you can hit a higher population per square before you trigger the domination space limit. You also have more room to customise your choice of city sites to make the most of the positive and less of the negative.

If people are wondering, I have been testing with custom maps. A Duel map of PLOT_LAND with no terrain or resources is:

0/960 population
0/960 land

Change one land to a hill and you get:

0/959
0/960

Fill 3/4 of the map with corn:

0/960
0/960

A Tiny map yields 0/1664 and 0/1664, etc...

M

Terrain is counted towards the population total, a blank world if ice will have a 0/0 population requirement (and crash the game if you hover over the score, presumably from a divide by zero issue). This would indicate that the population total is simply the total of available food from base tiles on the map, excluding bonus resources.

i have finished my second game..it is chieftain ,marathon,huge with osaka.i get 303463 point.:D :)

i ve finished my second settler game.it is huge map,marathon speed,Osaka,6 rivals and it is 363k points.:) :D

i ve finished my second settler game.it is huge map,marathon speed,Osaka,6 rivals and it is 363k points.:) :D

Osaka? Did you mean Asoka?

Oh, btw great score! :goodjob:

Osaka? Did you mean Asoka?

Oh, btw great score! :goodjob:


:blush: :blush: :blush: :blush: :) i mean Asoka.eheh i thought it is Osaka.

i start another chieftain game with Asoka .my starting position is very good.a very huge flood plain without deserts.:D .my game is now at 1 AD and my score is 249k without The Hanging Gardens .i will get it 15 turns later and i thing i ll get 30k from it.at 1 AD i am now 34k points better than my 362453 settler game.and it think if i wont make a mistake game will go to 400k :) :D .

95 AD i got hanging gardens.my point jump from 271K to 317K.i am now %52 of the land.i will get biology 14 turns later.:D and i think it will go to 400k:)

Wow! I wonder if u can make the highest score in beta HoF? Always thought that the highest score would be a deity game. :crazyeye:

Wow! I wonder if u can make the highest score in beta HoF? Always thought that the highest score would be a deity game. :crazyeye:

it is an chieftain game.:D .i have 7 more difficulty lavels for Deity :D .my score is 397K and i thing i can reach 412K .
the most important thing for deity is i thing high difficulty level players dont find a way to beat the AI very quickly.Civ3 it is more easy to beat them.so low dif. level players (like me) have more points.:D .just check the Civ3 HoF scores.you can see it.88553 points for Sid ,10434 points for Chieftain .

The difficulty multipliers make a lot more difference in Civ3. For Civ3 Sid scores 8x higher than Chieftain. For Civ4 Deity only scores 3.33 times as much as Chieftain.

The difficulty multipliers make a lot more difference in Civ3. For Civ3 Sid scores 8x higher than Chieftain. For Civ4 Deity only scores 3.33 times as much as Chieftain.


yes i agree that but i beleive that there is something wrong with the Deity level.maybe Deity level players are making mistakes.because i finished my last Chieftain game last night and it is 449k points.if for Civ4 Deity only scores 3.33 times as much as Chieftain Deity level has to be 1500k points.:rolleyes: :D :crazyeye: .we have to find a different way to beat the AI .:scan: .

finally i ve reached the 500k limit.it is a warlord with Asoka .it is not finished but i think i will go 550k.:D :D :) .25 th maybe i can submit it .

finally i ve reached the 500k limit.it is a warlord with Asoka .it is not finished but i think i will go 550k.:D :D :) .25 th maybe i can submit it .

Congrats!:) Approximately, how many free settlers and workers did you get from the huts?

Congrats!:) Approximately, how many free settlers and workers did you get from the huts?
i think i got 3 setlers and maybe 3-4 workers and 3 scouts.i dont know but i got 30 huts.. i got nearly 1000 gold .actually i never build the cities at the first turn.i wait 15-20 turns and after that i build the city.i build the city 16-18 turns later and 6 turns later i got bronz working.it was very good for expandig earlier.and the gold i got is the most important thing for the game.i never thought for gold before i got currency.my starting position is very good but map is not very good.i got lots of deserts and mountains around my stearting position and i cant expand and research techs fast enough.my score at 670 bc is 200k but 445 AD my score is only 312K.after 670 bc i thought about 650K :D :D :) .my reasearch was tooo low.(comparing my chieftain game.the time i got biology at the chieftain ,i just got banking.:crazyeye: :crazyeye: :crazyeye: .6 techs backward.nearly 85 turns.).so my score is 542435:D :D .

actually i never build the cities at the first turn.i wait 15-20 turns and after that i build the city.i build the city 16-18 turns later and 6 turns later i got bronz working.

Are you saying that you used the starting settler to explore and pop huts for about 15-20 turns?

Are you saying that you used the starting settler to explore and pop huts for about 15-20 turns?

hmm.i think you ve never try that tactic.it is always good for the starting position and the map.i always get a scout or a worker and explore the rest of the map.before that tactic i explore the map with the warrior i got nothing from the huts because i always use random civs.some have scouts and they always get the best part of the cake and i only get the crumb.:D .but now i get the whole cake.:lol: :lol: .

hmm.i think you ve never try that tactic.it is always good for the starting position and the map.i always get a scout or a worker and explore the rest of the map.before that tactic i explore the map with the warrior i got nothing from the huts because i always use random civs.some have scouts and they always get the best part of the cake and i only get the crumb.:D .but now i get the whole cake.:lol: :lol: .

Thanks!:) The moment I heard you mentioned it, I know that you are coming up with something great!:goodjob:

Thanks!:) The moment I heard you mentioned it, I know that you are coming up with something great!:goodjob:

no problem.i never thought that is something great.:) .i am happy to help you.:D .

buuut.that tactic wont work for noble or higher levels.:confused: :lol: :lol: .i tried maybe 30 maps but i didnt work.i though i was not lucky for the first maps.ehehe but after 30 maps i believe that the only thing you get from huts are gold and techs.(5 of the maps i got scout.1 map i got tech.but every map i got 500+ golds..no settler or worker.:mad: :mad: :cry: :cry: .i need another tactic for the higher levels.:confused: .

I concur; the higher the level, the less chance of getting worker and settler. I also noticed fewer huts on higher difficulty level, too. I have never been able to pop any settler out of the huts on Noble or higher. I don't remember getting any worker either.

I concur; the higher the level, the less chance of getting worker and settler. I also noticed fewer huts on higher difficulty level, too. I have never been able to pop any settler out of the huts on Noble or higher. I don't remember getting any worker either.

ehehe.i played my first noble yesterday.:D .:D

I also noticed fewer huts on higher difficulty level, too. Fewer huts or are the AIs just getting there first? ;) I've notice the AIs all start with a scout on higher difficulties, not to mention all their other extra units. I wouldn't be surprised if the ones that get a scout normally are getting two.

itis impossible to get a settler or a worker from a hut if you are playing noble or higher.

I wouldn't be surprised if the ones that get a scout normally are getting two.

i dont know about scouts but yesterday i saw 3 warriors together at the beggining of the game.:confused:

finally i ve reached the 500k limit.it is a warlord with Asoka .it is not finished but i think i will go 550k.:D :D :) .25 th maybe i can submit it .

500k. :goodjob: Where's the limit for the score? :hmm: Btw are you going for a write-up? Your strategy seems quite interesting.

500k. :goodjob: Where's the limit for the score? :hmm:

i always need a goal for better scores.my last game is 448456 points for chieftain level ; and i think better is 500 K.and it is the limit for me.:mischief:


Btw are you going for a write-up? Your strategy seems quite interesting.

i think not much players want a warlord write up.if players want a write up i ll do my best.;) .

tomorrow i will start a write up for warlord level.i am not an expert for writing but i think it will help a lot.;) :D .

great game turkish guy :) i look forward to seeing ur write up of how uve done it!

Regi

great game turkish guy :) i look forward to seeing ur write up of how uve done it!

Regi


thanks.:) . i think 2 days later i will finish the write up.;)

did any guy made a domination victory on emperor, immortal or deity.???(of course without using anarchy exploid and bigger than standart map.).

if it is yes what is the score and finish date and leader????

did any guy made a domination victory on emperor, immortal or deity.???(of course without using anarchy exploid and bigger than standart map.).

if it is yes what is the score and finish date and leader????

Look at this entry (http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/game_info.php?show=general&entryID=1463).

Look at this entry (http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/game_info.php?show=general&entryID=1463).


i ve just saw that.i think it is a great job for a huge map.

i ve just saw that.i think it is a great job for a huge map.

Are you going to give Immortal a try?

Are you going to give Immortal a try?

truly i dont understand what you mean.:blush: :D

i am now playing an emperor game(standart map).it is like 500AD.my situation is quiet good.my score is 110K with 20 cities.(%25 of the map).i have 25 macemans and i razed 3 of the enemy.
i am getting 20 gold with %40 tech rate.i have 4000 gold.i will milk the game .i am really curious about the score.(286K is the best)

truly i dont understand what you mean.:blush: :D

i am now playing an emperor game(standart map).it is like 500AD.my situation is quiet good.my score is 110K with 20 cities.(%25 of the map).i have 25 macemans and i razed 3 of the enemy.
i am getting 20 gold with %40 tech rate.i have 4000 gold.i will milk the game .i am really curious about the score.(286K is the best)

I'm just curious if your strategy works on Immortal.

I'm just curious if your strategy works on Immortal.


nope.different strategy for higher levels.:D