This succession game is an invitation only game where some of my friends and I are going to play. The goal here is to get them all up to emperor level. (If enough other people want to join this I might start a second game for anyone else interested in improving their Civ3 game.)

I plan to have three or four others and myself.

Here is the plan setup:

C3C 1.22 patch, standard map, continents, 4 billion years old, 70% water, 7 random AI opponents, roaming barbarians, emperor difficulty.

Also culture flipping enabled, preserve random seed on, scientific great leaders on.

Our civ: ? My vote is to make it random. I will see what the others say.

Victory conditions: spaceship, conquest, diplo, domination, culture.

Overall strategy is to beat the AI’s through conquest. Once we have control of the game then we can choose victory condition we want to reach. I would like to get to monarchy and stay there until communism, but that can change (esp. if we are religious). I would like to use the governor to manage citizen moods just to prove that it works, and cut down on the micro-management, especially after we have about six or eight cities. I do plan to keep trading reputation intact, and use alliances with the AI players to make our job easier (this will be the challenge).

Each player will play 10 turns. I would like to get in two turns per week, so each player will have a total of 3 days to acknowledge and complete their turn. If you cannot finish in 3 days please post as soon as possible so you can be skipped.

As soon as everyone checks in the game can start. I will start with the first 10 turns no later than Jan. 11.

Play order:

zerksees
bobbabooey
lomax
Tominator2
piratedn

On 1/9/06 I ran setup and created our game. A few additional settings: normal and temperate for map setup, and AI aggression level normal. We drew Egypt as our civ. The save is attached: http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/27707/Cleopatra_of_the_Egyptians_4000_BC.SAV

Rules sound good to me. :goodjob:

I would be interested in playing, but my conquests is quite screwy. However, my PTW works fine and is up to date. If you don't mind compromising on that then count me in. If you do mind then ignore this post. Anyways, I'm currently trying to jump to emporer. I can handle myself quite well on monarch, and I can't remember losing a game on monarch except by early rushes (rare) and late game unexpected diplo losses. My emporer game is decent, but I usually find myself working extra hard to overcome some special obstacle that I won't see in monarch play (no iron, runaway civ on another continent, etc...)
Finally, when you say that you'd like to see the govenor do the work, is that a restriction or just a preference?

Zerksees, I am in

i'm in. let me know when things start.

OK I have started the game, creating the 4000BC save. I have not played any turns yet as I want your input on several areas.

A) I have selected 7 random AI opponents. Is there any way to tell who they are?
B) What should we do in our first ten turns with our units and builds?
C) What does this initial minimap tell you?
D) What technologies should we research first?
E) Our civ is Egypt. How does this affect our gameplay?

After discussion is complete I will play the first ten turns.

I also want to clarify a few things - some "rules":
1) You can play the game ahead if you like, but do not share the information with us, and do not let what you
have learned spoil your decision process.
2) When it is your turn to play, avoid reloads. We can decide as a group what we are going to do if your turn
has a bad outcome.

Drakdan - If we can get enough other interested civ players from the forum I will start a second game like this
for you and them. The rest of these players I know personally, and this succession game is limited to people I know personally.

Welcome to CFC all of Zerksees new friends ! :beer: May your addiction commence.
Zerksees is it ok if my idiot brain occasionally comes up with something to comment on?

whomp: Lurker comments definitely accepted! :)

Is there any way to tell who they are?
"Space advisor ©" will give the answer :lol:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/space_advisor2.JPG

OK Smart - you passed emperor 101. That was probably quite a challenge for you! :mischief: But thanks for the pic.:goodjob:

Without knowing the detail of the map, which of these are going to be the most trouble from the AI?

For you guys who are going to play - I am in an SG right now that Smart is hosting. Whomp is also in the game which you can read about here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=149207)

Btw, this picture is from the different game, just to show how to use F10 screen, because I did't found the save of this SG :mischief:
Can you post it?

From the type of questions zerksees is asking, I think he's trying to get his trainees thinking and actively discussing what they should be doing. They'll learn more if they have to figure some things out for themselves. I'd guess we can pop in when a point gets missed or confused, but not help too much. That's how I learned the most in training games. I still have much to learn, so I'll be following this game with interest.

Can you post it?
I retroactively inserted it at the bottom of the first post of this thread.

I have edited the picture above, and now it's from this game.

@gmaharriet's comment:
I posted that picture only to explain to trainees, how to use the space screen, they will learn this and maybe use it in the further games. But if zerksees don't want my comments anymore, I will just silently lurk :scan:

I would start with wheel, warrior code, or bronze working...

Build the Chariot as soon as we can.
Start exploring (Chariot and warrior), once we get 2 exploring units and 2 units to defend the capital then start on the settler.

My thought is to settle right were we are. Appears to be a good location since we are right on the river. Being on the river will allow you to expand to a size 12 without having to build an aqueduct. We are also surrounded with food and shields. Move the worker up on top of the mountain first to see what is around. Move the worker to the North East and build a road then irrigate. Build a warrior. Start researching the wheel.

Thanks for your starting ideas.

I am going to start with mysticism. There is a pretty good chance the AI will get the wheel and we can trade for that. Since mysticism is a 2nd tier tech the chances are better we will be the first to have it, or at least beat some of our neighbors to it. We should be able to get the wheel and more for it. If that fails we go for polytheism and try the same trick. Worst case we research the wheel later.

I choose not to leave anyone in the capital at the start because the initial risk from roaming barbs and other AI's is low. Lomax I am not sure if the first two warriors were sent to explore followed by the two defenders/MP. Bobbabooey I dould not want to waste worker time going up the hill so that will have to wait for the first warrior.

Irrigating at this time on grassland does not help, as there is a penalty in despotism - basically the third food is lost to the despotism penalty. Grassland produces two food, irrigated grassland produces three except in despotism where it produces three minus one -> just two food. This is why bonus food tiles are so important in despotism, as you can make these tiles produce more than two food. A wheat tile on grassland makes four food, in despotism it makes three. If you irrigate that tile however you can get it up to four food.

I will post the turn 10 save and update tonight.

Smart - lurker comments still welcome. I had planned to let my teammates answer but your answer served the same purpose - the information is out there and being learned, and I did not have to post a pic. I still want lurker opinions about the AI opponents.

I know we won't be attacking hoplites with our warriors anytime soon. ;)

1) 4000 BC - Found Thebes. Set research to 100% on mysticism. Sent worker south. We are building a warrior. Governor is on emphasizing food and production, and managing citizen moods.

IBT (in between turn) - nothing

2) 3950 BC - Worker starts on roading the tile to get extra commerce. This will help research faster. Discovered the bonus grassland near the river already gets extra commerce, apparently for being on the river. Oh well this tile will be used by our second citizen of Thebes.

IBT - nothing
3) 3900 BC - nothing
IBT - nothing

4) 3850 BC - Worker finished road. Sent worker to bonus grassland (BG) one tile northeast (1NE) of Thebes.

IBT - nothing

5) 3800 BC - Worker starts road on 1NE

IBT - Thebes completes warrior, starts another warrior

6) 3750 BC - Warrior heads north. Spot a plains tile with a cow just out of reach of Thebes, and it is on the coast. Doesn't look like we can build a city to access it without chopping down some marsh.

IBT - nothing

7) 3700 BC - Worker mining 1 NE, warrior headed 1 NW from the mountain

IBT - nothing

8) 3650 BC - warrior exploring east

IBT nothing

9) 3600 BC - same

IBT nothing

10) 3550 BC - same

Thebes will complete warrior number 2 next turn.
Send him east to explore. Once mysticism is done go for polytheism. We are trying to get tradeable techs and get to monarchy.
Need to put out a settler as soon as Thebes gets to size 3. You may be able to build a warrior or a temple before then. The temple will help with happiness until we can get luxuries hooked up.

Watch the citizens of Thebes. If the governor adds an entertainer we need to either up the luxury slider or put a warrior in there.

Do not whip the citizens to rush build anything for now.

bobbabooey you are up next, lomax you are on deck.

A) I have selected 7 random AI opponents. Is there any way to tell who they are?
B) What should we do in our first ten turns with our units and builds?
C) What does this initial minimap tell you?
D) What technologies should we research first?
E) Our civ is Egypt. How does this affect our gameplay?



i've always considered this a minor cheat
expand - scouts for goody huts, techs to reveal resources (of course, i always under-militarize so ymmv)
it's a decent place to settle - nice mix of food, production and a river to boot
i'm a monotheism fan. don't we have a fairly early special unit, too? my civ3 manual is buried somewhere
we have an early special unit and some form of cheaper building (temples?). be aggressive with the special unit to pound others early and get our growth curve on top. temples help with both culture and happiness so we might be able to expand our borders a little faster.


the 10th-turn map looks like we have nothing to our southeast. the northwest is probably the rest of the local landmass. the best place for a settler right now is either to the west of the warrior (ivory + deer) or to the southwest of thebes (that fish-like partial icon). there's a nice riverbend in the northwest that the warrior might follow to make some time exploring. can't we make a scout yet?

Governor is on emphasizing food and production, and managing citizen moods.
I'm usually against using governor or any kind of automation in training games. Governor will do things, that AI is usually doing, but at higher levels AI gets some bonuces, and human must use his intellect to win...
On Emperor player must do micromanagement (MM) to improve production and minimize waste. I think it would be better to turn governor off, or else trainees will use it in the next games, and I'm sure, that it will not work on Demigod and above ;)

Btw, there is very good article about emperor tactics, it would be nice, if all trainees will read it: Monarch to Emperor: the Great Leap (http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3/strategy/monarch_emperor.php)

i'm a monotheism fan. don't we have a fairly early special unit, too? my civ3 manual is buried somewhere
we have an early special unit and some form of cheaper building (temples?). be aggressive with the special unit to pound others early and get our growth curve on top. temples help with both culture and happiness so we might be able to expand our borders a little faster.


the 10th-turn map looks like we have nothing to our southeast. the northwest is probably the rest of the local landmass. the best place for a settler right now is either to the west of the warrior (ivory + deer) or to the southwest of thebes (that fish-like partial icon). there's a nice riverbend in the northwest that the warrior might follow to make some time exploring. can't we make a scout yet?

Scouts are built by expansionist civs only. Egypt is religious and industrious so we can't build any. We will have to use warriors for now, and maybe a curragh or two.

Monotheism is a middle age tech. Are you talking about monarchy? :confused:

Building the city near the deer/ivory is a good choice based on what we have seen so far. But since we can get the fish and the deer into a city border (with a little help from a temple) that might be better.

We are going to get ahead/keep up by setting up a settler factory and expanding as quickly as possible. I don't think it is a good idea to have an early war when there is still free land to grab. Having a few UU around to keep barbs in check would be handy a little later. After that we will try to take them on one at a time, with a little help from our AI friends.

I would like to confirm there is nothing to the southeast. Maybe there is a cow on grassland over there.

On Emperor player must do micromanagement (MM) to improve production and minimize waste. I think it would be better to turn governor off, or else trainees will use it in the next games, and I'm sure, that it will not work on Demigod and above

I disagree with this statement. It was not until I started playing Sid level that I pretty much turned off the governor. I have regularly beaten emperor, even beaten PTW deity and C3C deity with the governor on. I do not let the governor choose what my cities will build though. I will selectively MM certain cities (i.e. settler factories and a few other exceptions) but generally use my tile improvement strategy to "help" the governor. Until I discovered CrpMapStat, I would have too many cities losing turns in anarchy because I did not MM each city each turn. MM is not my favorite, and I have found enough advantage in trading, military alliances and war tactics to overcome the AI advantage at emperor level.

Certainly good MM beats the governor every time, I just don't think it is necessary to beat emperor (with typical starting parameters as we have chosen for this game) almost every time.

We have an early special unit and some form of cheaper building (temples?). be aggressive with the special unit to pound others early and get our growth curve on top. temples help with both culture and happiness so we might be able to expand our borders a little faster.
Why temples? Temples are great for 100k cultural wins but is this the VC the team is attempting?
Remember temples stay with you the rest of the game and bear a cost each turn till the end of the game. What is the purpose of the temples if you can impact happiness through the lux slider and luxuries?

I'm sure Zerksees will discuss specialization of cities as you move on but every city does not need to acquire all the buildings.

What builds pay for themselves?

The exception on temples IMO would be if you need quick culture pressure on a neighboring city or in the end game when you're trying to expand borders for a domination win.

As far as trading, this was used to evaluate all the trades in a zero science training game I was involved with. It may be useful in this game as well to make a save before you consumate a trade so it can be evaluated for training purposes. It's up to you guys and Zerksees if this would be useful.

When structuring a trade per Bede's tenets:
Start with the most expensive monopoly and work your way down to the next near monopoly and finish with the cheap techs at the end of your trading. This gives the opportunity for 3 or 4 fers and a profitable trade.
The decision making process:
1. Can I afford it?
2. Do I need it?
3. Can it be traded around profitably?
If only 1 of these 3 qualifies then it's a bad trade. If it's 2 of 3 it's acceptable and if it's 3 of 3 it's excellent.

I am looking at the image from the end of the 10th turn. My plan is to explore North with the 1st warrior heading up the mountains to be able to see as much as possible. I also plan on exploring south west with the new warrior. I would build another warrior then start on a temple.

Not sure what I should do with the worker after the mine is complete. I usually build roads all round my territory when I begin a game. (I could use a suggestion here on what I should do with the worker next).

I would settle right where warrior #1 is standing because that would place the city on a hill therefore helping with defense at war time. The other benefits would be the deer and Ivory.

I think this training mission is a great idea. I have played zerksees before and always wondered what he does to get so strong so fast.

Bill

(I could use a suggestion here on what I should do with the worker next).

Mine the tile 1 S of Thebes, then build a road to the new city location (2 SE of deer I think), which is going to be on the tile directly between the deer and the fish so our settler can get there faster. Trust me this is the best location so far as we can get bonus food from the fish and the deer to increase population faster and maybe get a settler factory from that city. If there is time after that road a grassland tile that could be reached by either city.

Turn 1 3550 BC +0 gold per turn Mysticsm 16 turns
No actions
Thebes produced warrior Start build warrior (3 turns) Borders expanded

Turn 2 3500 BC +0 gold per turn Mysticsm 13 turns spotted barbarian warrior to the east
sent worker to create mine South of Thebes
sent warrior 2 to talk to barbarian warrior
sent warrior 1 north in mountains to explore
warrior now 4 turns to produce in Thebes

Turn 3 3450 BC +0 gold per turn Mysticsm 12 turns
made contact with the Iroquois as Iroquois warrior took out barbarian.
tried to trade Masonary and 10 gold for Alphabet. "It can't be done".
Moved Warrior 2 back into city for protection.
Started building mine South of Thebes
warrior now 2 turns to produce in Thebes

Turn 4 3400 BC +0 gold per turn Mysticsm 11 turns
fortified warrior in Thebes
Northern explorer Warrior found 2 more ivories.
Iroquois warrior fortified in swampland outside of our borders.
tried to trade Masonary and 10 gold for Alphabet. Still no luck.
Warrior produced. Start build temple (8 turns)

Turn 5 3350 BC +0 gold per turn Mysticsm 10 turns
Sent warrior 3 to explore South. Sent Warrior 2 to explore North west.
Iroquois warrior went back home East.

Turn 6 3330 BC +0 gold per turn Mysticsm 9 turns
Attempt to trade with Iroquois again but will not give an acceptable offer. Probably better to hold off on trading until we find more civs??? (not sure, Please advise techinques for trading between civs, especially this early in the game)
Warrior exploring North West found a goodie hut. Head North west to get it in 2 turns.

Turn 7 3250 BC +0 gold per turn Mysticsm 8 turns
Worker completed mine. Send West to create road to new city location.
Temple will be done in Thebes in 5 turns. Population increase to occur in 6 turns.
Iroquois now has Bronze working, Alphabet, Pottery and Warrior code. Iroquois is cautious. Gonna wait to see what the goodie hut brings.

Turn 8 3200 BC -1 gold per turn Mysticsm 7 turns
Hit goodie hut. Received a settler. Going to send him with the warrior escort back east. Unsure where to send him. Since the 2 Ivory is close, I am thinking to send him there.
Traded Iroquois Masonary for pottery plus 45 gold.

Turn 9 3150 bc -1 gold per turn Mysticsm 6 turns
Sent warrior and settler east and found 2 more deer along with a hill. I think the hill would be best to settle on as there is plenty of food, sheids, gold and luxuries.
After trading with Iroquis, they are now polite.

Turn 10 3100 bc -1 gold per turn Mysticsm 5 turns
worker completed road. Move worker west 1 tile for building road.
Iroquois now have a 2nd city of Niagara Falls.
Temple has 2 turns remaining until it is complete and the city will add 1 citizen in 3 turns. We currently have 53 gold in our treasury.
Our citizens in Thebes are content. The city is producing 5 sheilds per turn and 6 food per turn.

111350

111351

thought y'all might find this amusingoriginally posted by bede
Temples...temples...priests are prevaricating parasites who pillage the body politic.

You want culture, build libraries. You get something back from the investment.

You want content citizens, build marketplaces, trade for luxuries, build towns for luxuries, build colonies for luxuries.

If happiness is a problem in a settler or worker farm, it is a self-limiting problem. Raise the luxury tax, hire an MP, you only need to make the expenditure for a couple of turns. Temples are with you forever and are a permanent drag on the economy

My thoughts:

General:

After you post to a thread, Civfanatics forum will generate an email the first time the thread has been updated since the last time you logged in. I get emails all the time indicating the threads I participate in have been updated. However this requires that you log in each time you visit. If not you will not get these emails and it will be up to your memory to check. I recommend that you allow the website to automatically log you on each time you visit. Edit: You also need to go into user control panel and change preferences to "immediate notification" on thread updates.

“+0 gold per turn Mysticsm 13 turns”
To save time you can probably skip typing this in every turn. Just update if you have to change the science slider or if a tech is completed.

About what we have learned and done:

Goody hut with a settler! Excellent. This will be city #2. Since there are so many plains tiles around our capital and it would take workers and time to improve them enough, not to mention the time to walk closer, I think putting the goody hut city on the hill is a good choice. I would build a curragh in there first (for faster exploring and meeting the other civs), then maybe a warrior then a worker. Once the city is founded send the warrior north to explore some more. I know it is counterintuitive to you guys but it will be OK to leave the city open for a little while. The other warrior west of Thebes will finish his westward exploring soon (I am guessing he will hit the coast in four or five turns) and should then come over to protect the city. The barbarians can’t take the city – only loot some gold at this time and the AI is not ready to attack us yet.

I would not finish the temple in the capital. I would switch to settler and lose one turn of shields. This will be city #3. We are in expansion phase and I want another city as soon as possible. After settler build another warrior then another worker.

City #3 should be placed directly south of where the worker is in the picture (NOT where bobbaboey has suggested) and put to work on a temple. It will be directly between the fish and the deer and the border expansion will give access to both of them. Sorry AdmiralK but we are not waiting the extra 50 shields plus getting literature tech to build a library.

Our current worker should finish the road on the tile he is on then head to the bonus grassland tiles in range of the capital and city # 3. Mine then road each one.

Regarding the trade, I am not sure what to do with these early trades. If you trade you may not get the best techs for your tech, since you only get one trade. The AI may then sell your tech to the others they meet. If you wait you may not get to trade at all since the AI will meet someone else first and get it before from them, or you may get a tech from each civ you meet. It is a crapshoot. If you look at Whomp’s trade qualifications we did not get a good deal. I may have held off, but I also like alphabet and may have paid some gpt to get it. I do not think this was a bad trade. Lurkers feel free to chime in on this one.

Looking at the 45 gold the Iroquois had, I am going to guess that the Iroquois know one other civ who they collected the 10 gold from in a tech trade, and they found one goody hut or barb camp paying 25 gold. Add that to the 10 they started with and you get 45. We need to find that other civ ASAP.
Now that we know the Iroquois are to the east we should send a warrior to explore over there quickly to figure out if they are boxed in, who they already met, and if there is a chokepoint over there. The warrior in Thebes can escort the new settler for city #3 then head east once the city is up. We’ll chance it that the polite Iroquois won’t attack, at least until their military units step into our territory that is.

lomax - you are next
Tominator2 - you are on deck

Traded Iroquois Masonary for pottery plus 45 gold. Without seeing the save before the actual trade it's hard to tell if this was a good deal or whether it could've been improved. However, my inclination is that it was a very good trade. Maybe the players can make a save right before and post those along with the final save.

To use these tenets...
1. Can I afford it? Yes and it gave back an underrated tech and much needed cash to keep the science slider high and even run deficit research.
2. Do I need it? Pottery is a very valuable tech so you can build a granary.
3. Can it be traded around profitably? No. More contacts please. There's someone close by. Meeting them will bring down the prices of known techs and make a monopoly on mysticism and poly very valuable in trading.

For the new players I use the mapstat utility (others civassist II). I would
highly recommend any of the players download one of these two programs. They are great utilities for seeing the big picture very easily. (IE happy vs sad cities (civil unrest is bad), techs the AI have on one screen etc.)

My strategy would be to switch the temple to a granary.
Thebes is too small to pop a settler at 2 and even at pop 3 science at pop 1 would be horrible. Move the worker to the forest and chop it down to accelerate the granary.

Always remember...growth is power.

thought y'all might find this amusing

Seen it before but each time I read it it's better and better :lol: .

My strategy would be to switch the temple to a granary.

Thanks for the feedback on the trade and granaries.

However I can see we do not agree about granaries. I follow a rule of thumb I think I learned from SirPleb - do not build a granary unless a city can make more than two extra food. I tried to locate where I read this but could not, so here are my thoughts about this:

If a city makes two food the decision to make a granary can be expensive. If you put out the settler then in a short time (in this case two turns, one to move to the new home and one to build), you will be making four food as each city can make two extra food. Either way in ten turns your population goes up by two. Sure I will lose shields and commerce for a turn or two, but the new city will have production in its base tile and the tile that its first citizen is working. This will easily offset the granary and have no per turn costs as upkeep on a granary is one per turn. With a granary I invest 60? shields and 1 gpt for as long as I need it, a fairly expensive proposition, not to mention the ability to carry more units for free with the additional city.

After reading what I just wrote, you might question why build a granary at all? If I can set up all my cities to get two extra food after each expansion I should not need one at all. There are several problems with this. The first is that not every city can produce two extra food right away. Look at all those plains on this map - they will need irrigated to get any cities in there to two extra food. Furthermore, eventually corruption will be a problem and I won't be able to crank out enough shields to get the settlers out fast enough from the outside cities. Also, when you build workers there is no immediate return to your population/production like there is from a new city. Sure there are benefits of the improvments they lay down, but I am not going to try to quantify that. However I do know that in this case of workers I want the popluation to rebuild as quickly as possible.

Now, in this case we plan to build a city that can have three or four extra food after a few improvements are made, and hopefully in time to help with our expansion phase.

If SirPleb said it that's enough for me. My only thought was the capital could be a combo warrior/worker pump. I haven't run the numbers on it but my biggest concern is Thebes can't pop a settler at size 2. What to do then? Barracks if not gran?

Some day I'll run across SiPleb's thread again I just can't find the thread now.

We are going to lose a turn of production in Thebes and wait with the shield bin full until it gets to size 3. This is not ideal but it will only cost us one turn of shields.

My thoughts:

General:

After you post to a thread, Civfanatics forum will generate an email the first time the thread has been updated since the last time you logged in. I get emails all the time indicating the threads I participate in have been updated. However this requires that you log in each time you visit. If not you will not get these emails and it will be up to your memory to check. I recommend that you allow the website to automatically log you on each time you visit. Edit: You also need to go into user control panel and change preferences to "immediate notification" on thread updates.

“+0 gold per turn Mysticsm 13 turns”
To save time you can probably skip typing this in every turn. Just update if you have to change the science slider or if a tech is completed.

About what we have learned and done:

Goody hut with a settler! Excellent. This will be city #2. Since there are so many plains tiles around our capital and it would take workers and time to improve them enough, not to mention the time to walk closer, I think putting the goody hut city on the hill is a good choice. I would build a curragh in there first (for faster exploring and meeting the other civs), then maybe a warrior then a worker. Once the city is founded send the warrior north to explore some more. I know it is counterintuitive to you guys but it will be OK to leave the city open for a little while. The other warrior west of Thebes will finish his westward exploring soon (I am guessing he will hit the coast in four or five turns) and should then come over to protect the city. The barbarians can’t take the city – only loot some gold at this time and the AI is not ready to attack us yet.

I would not finish the temple in the capital. I would switch to settler and lose one turn of shields. This will be city #3. We are in expansion phase and I want another city as soon as possible. After settler build another warrior then another worker.

City #3 should be placed directly south of where the worker is in the picture (NOT where bobbaboey has suggested) and put to work on a temple. It will be directly between the fish and the deer and the border expansion will give access to both of them. Sorry AdmiralK but we are not waiting the extra 50 shields plus getting literature tech to build a library.

Our current worker should finish the road on the tile he is on then head to the bonus grassland tiles in range of the capital and city # 3. Mine then road each one.

Regarding the trade, I am not sure what to do with these early trades. If you trade you may not get the best techs for your tech, since you only get one trade. The AI may then sell your tech to the others they meet. If you wait you may not get to trade at all since the AI will meet someone else first and get it before from them, or you may get a tech from each civ you meet. It is a crapshoot. If you look at Whomp’s trade qualifications we did not get a good deal. I may have held off, but I also like alphabet and may have paid some gpt to get it. I do not think this was a bad trade. Lurkers feel free to chime in on this one.

Looking at the 45 gold the Iroquois had, I am going to guess that the Iroquois know one other civ who they collected the 10 gold from in a tech trade, and they found one goody hut or barb camp paying 25 gold. Add that to the 10 they started with and you get 45. We need to find that other civ ASAP.
Now that we know the Iroquois are to the east we should send a warrior to explore over there quickly to figure out if they are boxed in, who they already met, and if there is a chokepoint over there. The warrior in Thebes can escort the new settler for city #3 then head east once the city is up. We’ll chance it that the polite Iroquois won’t attack, at least until their military units step into our territory that is.

lomax - you are next
Tominator2 - you are on deck
Zerksees - Where do you suggest the placement of city #3, directly south of the worker, wouldn't the city #3 and Thebes boarder over lap, or I am confused?

Zerksees - Where do you suggest the placement of city #3, directly south of the worker, wouldn't the city #3 and Thebes boarder over lap, or I am confused?

Yes they will overlap. This is not a problem, as each will still have plenty of tiles to work. In the later game once we get hospitals it may affect city growth but hopefully the AI's will be toast by then :D

I know this city placement is closer than you are used to but it will not be a problem. In emperor and above games I always try to place my cities three spaces apart so that units from one city can get to the next in one turn, in case an AI sneak attacks me or the barbarians come knocking. This also means fewer military units needed to defend the same number of cities, allowing my cities to build other more important things. Now against human players I might be more concerned but I feel safe with the somewhat predictable AI.

Year 3050 (Turn 1)
Move ‘Goodie” settler into place
Continue to build road

Year: 3000 (Turn 2)
Place City “Two” on hill
Continued exploration

Year 2950 (Turn 3)
Built Settler
Continued exploration

Year 2900 (Turn 4)
Continued exploration
Built City 3
Started road to #2

Year 2850 (Turn 5)
Got Mysticism –tried to trade w/Iroquois – but got the reply – It can’t be done
Started the Wheel

Year 2800 (Turn 6)
Uneventful

Year 2750 (Turn 7)
Produce a warrior in Thebes and sent him east
Discovered some whales, and hay stack to the west

Year 2710 (Turn 8)
Meet an Iroquois warrior in the Northeast

Year 2670 (Turn 9)
Traded Mysticism to Iroquois for Warrior code and 20 gold

Turn 2630 (Turn 10)
Uneventful

Lomax do you have the autosave for 2850 and 2670 BC? I'd like to view them if you have them in your "auto" file.

Why did you choose wheel over poly?

Without seeing the save how would you to answer these questions regarding the trade.
1. Could you afford it?
2. Did you need it?
3. Could it be traded around profitably?

Why did you choose wheel over poly?
Indeed. This is a training mission - he must have missed that instruction?

Whomp do you think we should give up those turns and switch to poly now?

Also, city 3 should be working on a temple, city 2 should be building a worker and the worker should be mining south of Thebes.

Once city two build a worker it can connect itself to the core.

Tominator2 you are next. Here are my recommendations:
1) Switch Thebes to archer immediately then another archer
2) Switch city 3 to temple immediately
3) Switch city 2 to worker immediatelythen curragh

Everything else went well I think. Exploring went well, and the landscape looks better than I thought after the last 10 turns. I spotted a few places we might be able to use to generate more population quickly - the wheat on floodplain to the west looks a little far but tempting. I am surprised we have not met anyone else yet.

:hmm: Tough call Zerksees. The thing about wheel is it would seem to be a tech the Iroquois would research soon considering their UU needs that and HBR.

I'd be inclined to finish it since it's probably very close and maybe there's a trade opportunity there. Poly should still be a monopoly tech IMO even if wheel is researched first. Contacts are crucial at this point and the curragh is a great tech trading tool.

Since this is a training game once a player has a deal they would like to make it would be useful to save the game right before the deal is done then make the trade. This way one of us can check it and see if there was a way to improve on the deal, a great trade or whether it was even necessary to trade. Do you guys want to do this?

how bout a screenie for the lurkers?

summary:
- exposed more land
- found the iroquois border (boy are they close :sad:)
- minor barbarian trouble

future:
- excellent city site next to cow (cow, diamonds, and gold)
- the iroquois look big and close

2630 - changed production

Thebes -> archer
Two -> worker
There -> temple


2590

warrior intoThree
worker starts on road to Two
warriors explore
Two produces worker, starts on archer (change to boat?)


2550

new Two worker starts road through cow
warrior in Three fortifies
warriors explore
Thebes makes archer, starts on another


2510

new Tebes archer starts out nw to secure possible city sites
more exploration


2470

more exploration
contact with Iroquois border
barbarian attack on exploring warrior (now elite)


2430

beat barbarian camp, took 25 gold
more exploration
people expand palace (wennt with landscaping)


2390

more exploration
ivory makes it into thebes
thebes makes another archer, starts on settler


2350

thebes archer explores se
warriors explore
worker moves onto another ivory


2310

archer in nw attacks barbarians (kills one)
archer near thebes heads n to help
more exploration


2270

more exploration
barbarian is bearing down on worker


Tom

how bout a screenie for the lurkers?

here goes.

Tom

So we have a giant lake. Cancel the dinky boat order for Two.

Exploration going well, and barb control also going well - catching extra 25 gold was a bold move this early. Appears we have not lost a unit yet. I am pleased to see that we have the potential to control gems and wines in addition to ivory.

I wonder what happened to our workers? There is no way we should be roading land we don't own yet when our citizens back home are working unimproved tiles. We are wasting potential to make additional gold and shields by improving tiles we can't work yet. I think I requested at least one of these workers to be mining and roading southeast of Thebes. In order to succeed we are going to need 1-1.5 workers per city who are busyt making improvements we can use right away.

Next:

Reduce science to 80% to complete the wheel in one turn. Then start on polytheism. Edit: Cut science to 10%.
Change build on Two to a worker or warrior, depends on barb situation. Upon completion of one start the other
When Three finishes temple start granary
Thebes can finish the settler then warrior then archer
Workers finish their current tasks. Upon completion send one worker back to work southeast of Thebes to mine and road bonus grassland tiles, the other can mine a tile near Two then go back near Thebes.

I think the settler should go west from Thebes to one south of the ivory - take the warrior to escort. Since Two can't give us a curragh, four will. We really need to meet the other AIs so we can trade. If there are differing opinions please speak up.

Need more exploration to southeast and northwest off our landmass.

If the Iroquois demand something from us, give it to them.

There is no way we should be roading land we don't own yet when our citizens back home are working unimproved tiles.
maybe i'm not agressive enough, but the/my plan for the northernmost worker was: build road to new city site to speed settler along; road cow on the way; continue on and road to diamonds; then road to gold; then to grapes - this will speed second settler along to settle on northern shore.

on the other hand, i really don't like our capital being so close to the iroquois. we could set up some defensive cities along the mountain-swamp line, then worry about backfilling. it'd be nice to jump that wheat/sugar combo in the southeast. maybe too bold.

tom

maybe i'm not agressive enough, but the/my plan for the northernmost worker was: ...

on the other hand, i really don't like our capital being so close to the iroquois. ...

tom
In the big picture the worker plan was good but there are more immediate needs. If we build the granary faster we can get the settlers out faster to more than offset the time savings from the road. Also more shields = more of everything including units and improvements. Working near the capital first ensures the worker time is not wasted on corrupted shields.

I agree that we have a minor issue with the Iroquois being close. I would like to get a settler off to the east of Thebes also, but putting a city on the coast to build some curraghs to meet the other AIs is paramount. We are not going to be able to keep up in tech researching ourselves, so we need AIs to buy from and to sell to. So maybe we can put city #5 to the east of Thebes (in the hills so we get the defense bonus), but we have to see what the game brings us between now and then.

In the meantime we are going to be nice to them. :D

If it ends up just us and them it will be interesting, as we will have to fight them ourselves. I know we need to get to monarchy before any wars to avoid the despotic golden age. We should probably save up some gold and set up an embassy with them.

If we want to start producing curragh we will need alphabet should that be the next tech we research ?

In the big picture the worker plan was good but there are more immediate needs. If we build the granary faster we can get the settlers out faster to more than offset the time savings from the road. Also more shields = more of everything including units and improvements. Working near the capital first ensures the worker time is not wasted on corrupted shields.

I agree that we have a minor issue with the Iroquois being close. I would like to get a settler off to the east of Thebes also, but putting a city on the coast to build some curraghs to meet the other AIs is paramount. We are not going to be able to keep up in tech researching ourselves, so we need AIs to buy from and to sell to. So maybe we can put city #5 to the east of Thebes (in the hills so we get the defense bonus), but we have to see what the game brings us between now and then.

In the meantime we are going to be nice to them. :D

If it ends up just us and them it will be interesting, as we will have to fight them ourselves. I know we need to get to monarchy before any wars to avoid the despotic golden age. We should probably save up some gold and set up an embassy with them.

If we want to start producing curragh we will need alphabet should that be the next tech we research ?
Aargh. I have been playing too many civs that start with alphabet lately, and forgot alphabet was required for curragh.

It is a choice between building it and buying it. I need to look at the game save before I decide about this - will check tonight.

Just for discussion, if you really want to limit Iroquois expansion to the north, put a city to the east of Thebes, S, SE of the gold on the mountain...

Ugh. At max research polytheism will take 45 turns, alphabet 18. Even at 8gpt and 96 gold Iroquois will not yet trade us for alphabet "I doubt they will accept this proposal" says our advisor. They already have the wheel so it will be of no help in trading.

Start minimum research on ploytheism (slider at 10%) and we will buy alphabet from Iroquois when we have enough money.

After Thebes puts out this settler lets make sure it does not get below size 2 to bring in a little more gold.

piratedn is being skipped since he is out of town atm

I played the turns and a pic and save are attached. Writeup tomorrow.

Pre-flight – 2270 BC – Cut science to 80%, saving 1 gold

IBT – complete the wheel, start polytheism

1) 2230 BC – fortify 2hp archer, 3hp elite warrior looking for a mountain to fortify on. Sent east exploring warrior into Iroquois territory. Cut science to 10%

IBT – Three finish temple -> start granary. Iro complains about our warrior “we apologize…”

2) 2190 BC – Archer is healed, other archer takes out barb threat. Switch Two to worker. Worker finished roading ivory and is sent south. Exploring into Iro territory continues

IBT – Two completes worker -> starts archer. Iro says “move or declare”, we are automatically moved south of Iro territory.

3) 2150 BC – workers working their way south to south of capital. Our Iro trespassing warrior heads south and meets the Zulu. Zulu have bronze working but not alphabet. This is a big relief, as we will not have to fight an AI by ourselves. Tested the Iro but still can’t afford alphabet. Moving archer to Two to protect from barbs.

IBT – Thebes finishes settler -> start warrior.

4) 2110 BC – settler headed west, pulled a unit from Three to escort, warriors exploring. I think the elite warrior is fortified to heal. Somewhere in here two workers get to bonus grassland tiles SE of Thebes and start mining a tile

IBT - Barbarians approach Zulu finding warrior, formerly known as Iro trespassing warrior.

5) 2070 BC – Zulu finding warrior in jungle, crosses river to evade barbs. Lots of open land down here. There is an Iro warrior on the border and I am afraid to put all three workers in his reach. Third worker starts irrigating a plain to bring water closer to Three and the new city. Settler moves into position.

IBT – nothing

6) 2030 BC – Founded Bong (wanted a short name for these writeups and this was the first thing that popped into my head), and put it to work building an archer. Warrior out of Thebes headed east to explore.

IBT – workers finish mine, Three now making 4 blue spt (shields per turn), granary due in 9.

7) 1990 BC – Discover the bonus fish only gives 2 food. Argh. This and the apparent plains under the deer/forest tile makes me rethink the settler factory in Three. Switch to settler.
Iroquois will now accept 3 GPT and 105 gold for alphabet. Shaka will sell it for 3GPT and 117 gold. Come on Shaka this is a commodity item and I will buy for the lowest price. I also notice Shaka has horseback riding. I really want this since I could trade it to Iro for alphabet, but we don’t have enough gold, so I wait.

IBT – Somewhere in her the third worker finishes irrigate, and is sent to work roading to Bong, the other workers are busy mining and roading bonus grassland tiles SE of Thebes.

8) 1950 BC Zulu finding warrior also finds the Sumerians! Gilgamesh has horseback riding, bronze working and alphabet. He has the best deal on horseback riding so we buy it for 124 gold + 2 gpt. Now I barter with the Iroquois, collecting alphabet for horseback riding and 10 gold.
Immediately change production in Bong to curragh.
There are no horses anywhere on the map we can see.

IBT –

9) 1910 BC – northern warrior is on the way to the two-tile choke at the north end of our landmass. When warrior completes in Two it should also be sent up there to complete the choke, forcing our competition to trespass or drop settlers by boat if they want to land on our future territory to the west.

IBT – Three: Settler -> curragh

10) 1870 BC – exploring to the south continues. The settler and escort are headed to 1SE of wheat on floodplain. The tiles don’t look too good for a settler factory but we’ll try it.

Next 10 turns:

- Complete curraghs and build a couple more. Send them out in opposite directions – be sure to end turn on a coastal tile (they can easily sink in sea or ocean squares). For now we are looking for ways to see other landmasses without going ending a turn in the sea.
- Get up city by floodplain, have it build a worker. Two should also build a worker when it finishes current task.
- As the workers finish their tasks, check to see the tiles citizens are working and make sure they are roaded. If they are all roaded, mine the grassland and irrigate the plains of tiles citizens are working.
- Get two units up to the choke in the north and fortify on the mountains there.
- If there is any extra shield capacity a few more archers would be good for barb hunting/defense and exploring
- Try to get a unit or two through Iro territory to help explore to the south (if we have any) to see if there are any horses or other AI on our landmass.
- Keep research at 10% on polytheism. Any tech buying opportunity should net at least two techs.
- I don’t think we will be building any settlers in the next 10 turns.

What is next:

- The next city should be placed 4 east of Thebes, on the hill directly south of the mountain gold tile. - After that I would like to put a city on the hill NE of that location also, to try and wall off the northeast portion of our landmass, though I am skeptical we can get that done in time.
- There will also be room for one city SE of Thebes, but it will require chopping marsh. Since the AI will not do that for a long time that can be a lower priority.
- Thebes should not put out a settler until size 4 (never get below 2)

Any comment or suggestions?

bobbabooey you are up next.

start a pre-build for Zeus soon?

working on polytheism

1) 1870 BC – exploration

IBT – Iroquois warrior moves north

2) 1790 BC – Found barbarian camp North - North east of Two. Free $$$. Exploration.

IBT – Sumeria complains about being in their territory. I appologize. Barbarian Horseman attacked warrior. Warrior won with 1 hit point left while on hill. Two produced a warrior. Started an Archer in Two.

3) 1750 BC – archer attempted to take out barbarian camp and lost. Fortified 1 hit point warrior on hill. started irrigation of square 1 south east of thebes.

IBT – Thebes produced archer. Started work on another archer. Bong produced Curragh. Started on another curragh.

4) 1725 BC – Sent Thebes archer up to Two. Took down 1 barbarian.

IBT - Three produced curragh. Produce another.

5) 1700 BC – Continue exploration.

IBT – nothing

6) 1675 BC – built Four. Started on Warrior. Walked into Sumeria property again. Sumeria, Iroquois and Zululand has Bronze working and Writing. Sumeria and Iroquois have Polytheism. Can trade Sumeria 51 gold and 5gpt for Bronze working. Trying to get Polytheism from Sumeria so I can trade it to Zulu for Writing and Bronze working.

IBT – Nothing

7) 1650 BC – found another barbarian camp North West of Bong. Lost another archer on barbarian camp. Finally finished off barbarian camp with warrior.

IBT – Thebes produced Archer. Start on another archer.

8) 1625 BC - exploration

IBT – Sumeria annoyed. Troops moved automatically. Iroquois cautious. Requesting out Curragh removed from their territory. I appologized for the mistake and continued. Three produced another Curragh. Produce an Archer.

9) 1600 BC – exploration and improvements.

IBT – Bong Created another Curragh. Start on Archer.

10) 1575 BC – Another barbarian camp North of Two. Found another Barbarian camp Way South in Sumerian land.

Summary: Lost 2 archers to barbarians. Produced city Four. Explored further south. Zulu is the only one that does not have Polytheism. The other civs won't trade Polytheism. (What techniques will allow us to get it so we can trade it to zulu?).

112269

112270

Zulu is the only one that does not have Polytheism. The other civs won't trade Polytheism. (What techniques will allow us to get it so we can trade it to zulu?).

We don't have enough to trade, plain and simple. We need more cities. Eventually we will get connected and have luxuries but right now it comes down to gold.


10) 1870 BC – exploring to the south continues. The settler and escort are headed to 1SE of wheat on floodplain. The tiles don’t look too good for a settler factory but we’ll try it.

Next 10 turns:

- Get up city by floodplain, have it build a worker. Two should also build a worker when it finishes current task.
- Get two units up to the choke in the north and fortify on the mountains there.

All the other objective appear to be achieved, but the above were not.

Did you say you were irrigating grassland tiles? Do not irrigate regular grassland tiles in despotism, as the extra food is lost to the despotism penalty. Mine grassland and irrigate plains.

I see the worker at Bong is on a hill. He should be irrigating the plains to increase the population there. If the citizen was working the hill, they would change to the irrigated plains as soon as it was done.

Next 10 turns:
- Let worker at Bong finish the roading the hill, then irrigate plains to bring water to Bong plains.
- Workers near Thebes should stop irrigating and mine instead. Once mines are done start a road to Four. At least one of the marsh tiles should be chopped down, then roaded.
- Four can build a temple, and Two should build a worker after finishing archer. That worker should mine the grassland tiles there to try to improve shield production.
- We still need to get two military units up to the choke in the north.
- If you get an elite unit do not use it to attack barb camps. Put it in the cities.
- Attack barbs in the open but not on mountains or hills, esp fortified. If they make it into Egypt territory use whatever force is needed to dispose them.
- Start a palace prebuild in Bong to try and build Statue of Zeus by changing the build from archer to palace. We can always convert it to forbidden palace if we get beat. Since this requires Ivory I think we have a good chance of getting it.

Turn 1:
Stop the Irrigation
Move Elite to Four
Started Place Prebuild
Switched to Temple

Turn 2
Sank Barb Galley
Started to Move units to North

Turn 3
Build Archer in Thebes

Turn 4
Nothing to report

Turn 5
Build Archer

Turn 6
Lost Caugh to Galley
Turn 7
Build Archer

Turn 8
Nothing to Report

Turn 9
North is almost cut off (Two Volcano are erupting)

Turn 10
Lost Archer to Barb

looking at the save file, there doesn't seem to be much to do for the next 10 turns. some barb control, pushing workers around, exploration. any better ideas?

looking at the save file, there doesn't seem to be much to do for the next 10 turns. some barb control, pushing workers around, exploration. any better ideas? this is not necessarily a better idea, but another city to the NE of Four. Also, a road to Four? Based on what I've seen, Zerk and I have different styles, so he may not agee.

Do you have the city governors on? That's a :nono: I'm a little rusty on 3 but city governors is a death wish

any better ideas?

I think so.

Both Three and Thebes should be changed to build settlers. One settler should go west to 1 SE of the wheat floodplain - it might be good to have two escort until the city gets planted. The other should go to the hill on the road to Two. One of the three military units up north should come back south to protect cities or settlers. Extra archer in four should come back west to help escort settlers.

We also need more workers so Two should build one right after completing the archer.

We should buy polythesim from whoever will sell it the cheapest - I think it will be Sumerians. And be sure to negotiate with them. Then start researching monarchy @ 10%.

Well we still need to meet our neighbors, and it seems our curraghs are taking damage from the barbarians, so after finishing the settler Three should put out more of those between settlers until we meet the rest of the AI.

Do not attack that barb camp on the hill, but we should try to take that barb horseman with the first available archer.

The two units protecting the choke up north should stay put - fortify in their positions.

As soon as we get enough gold we should set up embassy with the Iroquois (after the polytheism trade).

this is not necessarily a better idea, but another city to the NE of Four. Also, a road to Four? Based on what I've seen, Zerk and I have different styles, so he may not agee.

Do you have the city governors on? That's a :nono: I'm a little rusty on 3 but city governors is a death wish

A road to four is a good idea but we only have four workers so we don't have enough resources to commit yet. The other city NE of four is also good but we have barbs in our backyard we can barely handle. Lets push the west border a little before we go NE of four.

City governors on - period. Believe me the city governor variant is way easier than always war variants. Let the governor make sure the cities do not riot. I hope that my team will pay attention and adjust the lux slider if entertainers show up, but i would rather not lose turns to anarchy. I beat emperor consistently with them on so the governor will be on. Even did it with "Catch the Runaway AI" game.

Not enough offensive units might be a death wish, but I don't think the mood/citizen placement governor is.

I hope that my team will pay attention and adjust the lux slider if entertainers show up, but i would rather not lose turns to anarchy. I beat emperor consistently with them on so the governor will be on. Even did it with "Catch the Runaway AI" game.

Not enough offensive units might be a death wish, but I don't think the mood/citizen placement governor is.

I have that programmed in my mind. No entertainers. Make the citizens happy with luxury slider.

We definitely need more offense.

here goes. commentary and screenshot later. in short - we're bigger and stronger.

piratedn, you are next.

Recommendations on city builds:

Thebes - change to archer, then build another archer then a settler. By the time settler finishes it will be size 4. This will cost us five shields but that is OK.

Two - Change to settler, then send the settler with escort to the grapes in the north. If possible build on the hill north of the grapes. I am concerned about the Iroquois galley bringing a settler and claiming the grapes.

Three - Change to curragh, then another then a settler.

Four - Finish temple then a worker then walls

Five - change to an archer. once done build a worker

Six - finish worker then build another

Other actions:

- Trading. Zulu have math but the others do not. We can almost afford it. If we buy it when Sumer and Iroquois do not have it, we should be able to get bronze working, ironworking and writing and possibly some gold and other techs for it.

- Worker near Two should finish current task then start irrigating plains near Five.
- Workers near Bong finish current task then start irrigating near Bong. Bong only has one extra food per turn and irrigating will help that.
- The archer holding the north choke should get back to his post.

Other comments:

Remember if the AI demands something, give it to them

We really improved on the power bar that time! We have only two more units than last time so those cities must have helped. Tominator2 overall these 10 turns look good.

Of the techs writing is important to get embassies then mapmaking to get galleys.

summary:
two new cities; iroquois looking to settle to our east; barbs to our east

future:
i hate to just give the iroquois the east; six is gonna be huge

self-congratulations on clever play:
placing six where i did simultaneously wiped out the barb encampment and netted us 25 gold :rockon:

1325

Thebes and Three -> settlers


1300

volcano erupts
archer discovers barb
curraugh sinks barb boat
polytheism from sumerians for 258 and 1gp/turn
archer beats barb horse -> veteran


1275

nothing much
Zulu rock!


1250

archer to nw
workers starts mining
more exploration


1225

settler to nw
wokers starts road to four
thebes finishes settler -> granary
two finishes archer -> archer


1200

nothing much


1175

five founded -> archer


1150

nothing much


1125

researching monarchy
worker to nw
three builds curraugh -> settler
curraugh sent to explore north and east
six founded -> worker


1100

nothing much

piratedn is bowing out of this game. He just got conquests and wants to get some practice before playing a succession game.

bobbabooey take the next turnset. I am on deck.

working on Monarchy (49 turns)

Before turn: Changed Thebes to Archer (done next turn). Changed Two to settler. Changed Three to Curragh. Changed Five to Archer.

IBT - Thebes produced Archer. Started another Archer. "The Iroquois are building the Temple of Artemis".

1) 1075 BC – Took out Barbarian Near Six. (Am I going Crazy? I was looking for the Histograph so I can see the Power bar and I can't find it)

IBT – Iroquois warrior attackes barbarian in our territory. Iroquois built St. Regis to the North East. Now standing in our territory. Four produced Temple. Start on Worker.

2) 1050 BC – Getting close to a deal with Zulu for writing.

IBT – Three produced Curragh. Work on Settler. Iroquois landed settler North of Six. Sending personel to block them from proceeding North.

3) 1025 BC – Not much to report.

IBT – Sumerians are building the Hanging Gardens. Sumerians are building the Pyramids. Iroquios built Centralia North of Six.

4) 1000 BC – An entertainer was spotted in Two. Two will be producing a settler next turn so no worries.

IBT - Zulu asked our troops to leave. Moved automatically. Barbarian horseman attacked our warrior on choke point mountain and the barbarian lost. Thebes produced archer. Started on a settler. Two produced Settler. Started Temple in Two.

5) 975 BC – Not much to report.

IBT – Iroquois complain as curragh is in their territory. We appologize for the "mistake". Inca completed the Colossus.

6) 950 BC – Continued settler towards grapes (Wine City).

IBT – Zulu asks us to leave from their territory. We appologize for the mistake and inform them we will move out troops. Five completed Archer. Started on Worker.

7) 925 BC – continued exploration. Traded 260 gold and 17 per turn. Traded Math to iroquois for Bronze Working and 97 gold. Traded Math plus 2 gpt + 97 gold for iron working.

IBT – Sumeria not liking our troops are in their territory. We appologize for the mistake and will leave their territory. four created worker. Started on Spearman.

8) 900 BC - Nothing much.

IBT – Barbarian sunk our curragh in North. Six created worker. Build another worker.

9) 875 BC – nothing.

IBT – Zulu asks us to remove troops. They automatically move. Thebes produced Settler. Produce another settler. Three produced Settler. Built spearman.

10) 850 BC – founded new city wines in the north. Barbarian camp was eliminated and we earned 25 more gold. Started on Spearman. Aimed Settler produced from Thebes to diamonds in the north. We have iron in the mountains East of Four and North of Six. Send a worker to create a road North of Six. Fortified 2 curraghs close to barbarian gallies. Took out Barbarian warrior North of Wines.

Summary: Lost 2 curraghs to barbarians. Produced city Wines. Purchased Math. Traded Math for Bronze Working and Iron Working. Produced a couple settlers. Send them to Diamonds to the North.

Zerksees and I swithed up spots so zerksees is up next.
113813

OK no major complaints about last turnset, though I would like to point out some weak points.

I will suggest again that Three and Thebes do not go down to size 1 on a settler build. That is killing our commerce.

Also negative gpt is a bad idea. If the AI demands all your gold and you have negative gpt you will lose a unit or improvement to pay for it. This is OK when you are ready to stand up to AI demands but not yet.

Worker near Five is roading a hill when there are irrigated plains that our citizens are working without roads.

It would have been nice to get writing instead of iron working, but its not a big deal. The side bonus of ironworking is we know that we have a monopoly on iron - at least right now no one else has iron hooked up.

Good ideas:

Watching for entertainers in cities. You can up the lux slider and restart the governor to get rid of that if you need to. Also consider bringing in a second unit as military police to increase happiness.

Fortify curraghs when near barb galleys. This really slows progress since you can only move one square per turn but should increase our chances

850 BC - Took control of the auto moving settlers. Move curragh into Wines and fortify. Change Bong to build Statue of Zeus, will complete in 22. Wake worker roading hill by Five, he has more improtant work to do. Change Three to curragh

IBT - not much

1) 825 BC - took our barb horse at Wines with archer, curragh move 1 and fortify. Spot Iroquois settler with spear escort headed north. Decide to take our line of defenders near Four to block. Send warrior from Thebes east to cover Four.

IBT - Our wicked curragh sinks two barb galleys, loses one hit point and gets promoted to veteran. Archer takes attacking barb at Wines.

2) 800 BC - Archer back into Wines. Workers near Four finish their task and are headed south to clear tile for new city. Had to increase luxury to 20% to eliminate entertainer in Bong, SoZ due in 16.

IBT - Horse barb near Four decides to impale himself on Iroquois warrior. Barb warrior attacks Wines and loses. The people offer to expand our palace again!

3) 775BC - Exploring with boats continues. Change Two to build spearman.

IBT - Two completes spear and starts worker. Iroquois and Sumerians building Hanging Gardens. Zulu want to keep up so they are building Mausoleum of Mausollos. I want to thank them in advance for building these for us.

4) 750 BC - Curragh is healed and departs to the east. Change Five to spearman. Curragh exploring continues. Somewhere in here the barricade is set up on the east side, except I am one unit short.

IBT - Three finish curragh and start another. Five completes spear and starts a settler.

5) 730 BC - found Gems and start on a worker. Found Deer and start on a worker (Deer is north of Iro city on our land). Finally we are not running a deficit.

IBT - Shaka demands 20 gold. Argh. I give it to him. I like you Shaka which is why we are going to kill you last. Our domestic advisor informs us that our people want us to build the forbidden palace.

Out of time. Will post the rest tomorrow.

Also negative gpt is a bad idea. If the AI demands all your gold and you have negative gpt you will lose a unit or improvement to pay for it. This is OK when you are ready to stand up to AI demands but not yet.
You can click on the advisor's head to go the F4 screen, then you can go to the F1 screen to lower science.

TimBentley - we are at 10% science (-1 gold) and we are losing 5 gpt, so setting slider to 0% will only help a little. I am guessing we made gpt deals before the settlers came out.

6) 710 BC – Curragh in north headed east, curragh in south is going west, venturing to the open ocean to find other landmasses/civs

IBT – Zulu warn, we apologize. Our warrior in the south appears trapped in a two tile area, so I am attempting to cross Zulu territory. I would buy an embassy but we are short on gold. I am staying away from the tiles directly next to any city. After a couple turns this unit does clear Zulu territory to explore a little more in the south.
South curragh survives, north curragh does not survive as I accidentally landed on a sea tile. I think two completes curragh and starts another.

7) 690 BC – A second unit makes it to Bong, lux slider reduced to 10%. South curragh headed due west further into the ocean. Other two curraghs I have not yet mentioned are still exploring. New curragh (suicide attempt #2) headed due south into deep ocean.

IBT – Two completes worker and starts a worker, Six completes worker and starts settler. Curragh survives

8) 670 BC – Zulu and Sumeria have construction but Iroquois do not. Too bad we have nothing to trade.
I was able to reduce lux to 0%

IBT – Finally the westbound curragh sinks in the treacherous waters finding nothing but ocean.

9) 650 BC – Suicide #2 heads south out of Three

IBT – Thebes finishes spear and starts on barracks, Four: spear -> swordsman, Wines: worker -> worker. Suicide #2 survives the sea

10) 630 BC – Nothing much. Somewhere in here the 5th unit is sent to complete the blockade of tiles to the north. Suicide # 2 headed south into the treacherous ocean waters. Alas their efforts are not in vain as coastal tiles of a new landmass are spotted! Let us hope they make it through.

Next 10 turns:

Build orders:
Thebes – barracks then swordsman
Two – finish worker then sword then barracks
Three – curragh then curragh (drop a settler when the city gets to size 4)
Bong – Finish SoZ then settler then barracks
Four – swordsman then walls
Five – settler then barracks
Six – settler then settler
Wines – worker then worker
Gems – worker then forbidden palace. The FP may change but for now it can stay here
Deer – finish the temple (leave two units stationed in here to reduce flip risk)
Lt blue dot when build should build a temple first.

Workers should continue irrigating plains, mining grassland. Chopping down marsh near four and lt blue will be helpful also. As cities go up we need to connect them with roads.

Archer north of four should be sent to complete the blockade.

No wars please. Give in to demands if made for a while longer.

Status/strategy check:

The Zulu, the mighty agricultural Sumerians, and our own Egypt each have 10 cities. Iroquois have 11. This means we have been keeping up during expansion phase, and I am pleased with that. The tech deficit can be erased once we meet some of the other civs.

In the near term we need to finish expansion phase.
 In order to do this we need more cities and more workers. This is our top priority.
 I have selected nine more city locations, and we should fill as many of them as we can. Hopefully we can build at least five of them. The settlers will come from any city that can give one, and the majority of the workers will come from Six, if I had to guess.
 Look at the pic, build cities on the colored dots in this order: light blue, royal blue, white, green, pink, red, black, orange and grey.
 We also need at least 20 workers, of which we have nine already.
 We will also need units to defend our empire. Statue of Zeus will give us ancient cavalry, which we can spread around to the cities to help improve our ability to respond to barbarians and AI attacks. A couple of our cities are going to be dedicated to making units we will use to defend (and prepare for any future offensives).

Mixed in with expansion we will also address:
 Exploration. Meeting the other civs is also very important, a close second to expansion. We should continue to send curraghs toward the new landmass to the south an try to contact the other civs.
 Diplomacy. We need to get writing and set up an embassy with Iroquois. Our next trade should involve writing if possible.
 Lower priority is embassy with Sumerians and the Zulu. We are probably about 40 turns away from revising our “cave in to demands” strategy.
 Trading. Getting roads and a harbor are a priority to start trading our extra lux and maybe iron. We can use these to get techs, gold, or horses.

As long as we stay close in expansion, we can gain ground when the wars start.

Turn 1
Lost curragh in ocean square
Move Archer to Blockade
Move Workers to next assignment


Turn 2
Worked on Build orders
Started workers on next projects

Turn 3
Started worker on road to gems
Started work on road to Deer
Continued Exploration with the curragh

Turn 4
Lost curragh in sea square (I think we are going to need the galley)
Sent the settler to the light blue dot
Produce some more workers and sent them on their way

Turn 5
Nothing much

Turn 6
The SO Zeus is completed, started the next build
Continue to move workers on and to improvement projects
The Iroquois have turned around and left our territory

Turn 7
The curragh isn’t going to make it a cross
Built a city on the light blue dot (Note: Zerksees to-dos list is larger than my wife’s)
Tried to trade with the Iroquois for writing I can get it for 5 gp a turn plus 130, will try again in a turn or turn. The other civ have a high price.

Turn 8
Nothing Much
Zulu have built a city North of Gems, and adviser report that barb are amassing near Gems
Started worker on road From Deer

Turn 9
Iroquois still want gp per turn should be able to get it out right next turn

Turn 10
Got Writing from the Iroquois for 218 gp they are now polite
Woke warrior from Bong to send with settler form six to dark blue dot like thing

(Note: Zerksees to-dos list is larger than my wife’s)

I am trying to run a whole civilization here. Did you get the bread and the milk too? :lol:

Tominator2 you are up next
Bobbabooey on deck
zerksees
lomax

Analysis:
Lets try to get multiple techs in a trade. 218 gold for writing is a good price, but if we could have bought another tech, we could have traded that tech to get writing and maybe even another tech. Right now the Zulu have a tech the others do not, and we may been able to buy it and sell for other techs.
Furthermore at least some gold per turn may have been better (say 120 gold and 5 gpt) because if the Iroquois attacked us before the 20 turns was up we would get part of the tech for free, since we would not have to pay the rest back.

We now can see that most of the land in the south has been filled, and only the Zulu added a city in the last 10 turns. I know the Iroquois have at least two settlers as they were approaching our territory, and no doubt turned back when our 5 unit choke blocked off their passage.

I know you guys want more military, but even now our military is average compared to Iroquois. Our first Ancient Cavalry is coming soon and once the barracks are done the swords will follow. I think we should have about 15-20 for offense and a few more for defense against galley landings and units coming from the stray cities.

Next 10 turns:

• Let Three finish settler then keep building curraghs and sending them south. One of them will make it through!
• Workers near Six should finish their jobs then send four of them east to chop down the marsh east of Thebes and then road/mine the grassland underneath. One can stay back and mine the iron tile.
• Other workers can be brought over to build roads on one or two tiles on the Iro border near Four, and road the iron near Thebes.
• Pull archer from Three and put it in Bong for military police. There is an entertainer in there and that is no good.
• Change Abydos to build temple, then walls
• New order for city build: grey, royal blue, orange, white, green, red, black. I want to secure the rest of the western part and ensure our grapes can be delivered to all cities. We cannot build on the pink as the Zulu took it.
• Keep building settlers and workers. Cities should not go below size 2 on settler or worker builds. If not already on specific orders we should be building mostly swords and a few spears. (Swords should not be our front line defenders in the cities, those should be spears)
• If we can spare a unit or two send them to the 5-unit barricade in case the barbs take down our units we can fill the gap
• Give in to demands of gold

highlights:
- traded for map making (curraghs blow)
- founded Seven and Cheese
- haven't lost yet

concerns:
- we're getting culture-squeezed out east (we've lost our blockade and a building site or two)
- there's really no way for our curraghs to get south in coastal waters

what the hell i was thinking (aka plans):
- Seven and Cheese lock up Centralia
- we have settlers on the way to black dot and red dot
- we have several units moving in support of our redt dot expansion
- Abydos is trying to hold off a culture squeeze from the Iro
- some other cities are building temples to fill in holes between them


details:
390

Abydos -> temple
archer Three -> Bong
Thebe swordsman -> spearman

370

swordsman -> Three
cavalry ->Bong -> blockade
curragh goes nw
warrior -> Gems

350

Bong settler -> royal blue
Deer temple -> swordsman

330

Seven founded (spearman)
Thebes spearman -> spearman
Two swordsman -> swordsman
Three settler -> curragh
Sumeria founds city next to green dot

310

spearman Thebes -> Seven
settler Three -> grey got

290

nw curragh sinks
Sumeria tells us to go away (we do)
Bong curragh -> curragh
everyone wants too much for mapmaking

270

Thebes spearman -> settler
Four walls -> barracks
Five barracks -> temple

250

Seven changes from speaman to temple as spearman arrives
Three curragh -> curragh
Wines worker -> temple

230 nothing much
190

traded Iro 240 + 4/turn for map making
Cheese founded (spearman)

Analysis

Generally this round went pretty well. I do have a few issues though.

I am still very confident we can win this game. IF we do it right we won’t even lose a city along the way. BUT, in order to do that we need to keep up in tech, which means no more single tech trades without consulting the group!

No workers? We need more workers.

We still need our five unit wall in the east to block Iroquois settlers until our settlers get to the red and white dots.

Next 10 turns:

• Monarchy done in 7 turns. When monarchy is complete does revolt and convert to monarchy. Pick most expensive non-optional tech to build next.
• Send those galleys south when they are done and build more until we make it through. Any sea exploration should be aimed at finding new landmasses and we will lose ships. Do not be afraid of ships sinking! West and south are good directions, going south in the promising area south of Three first. Send remaining curraghs that way also.
• New city build orders: white dot, orange dot, red dot. Black dot can wait until the war starts.
• Current city build orders:
o Abydos – reassign catapult to build walls then barracks
o Five and Seven – reassign temple build to swordsmen. These are not under culture pressure from the Iroquois so lets not waste shields on temples. Small open gaps between cities are OK right now.
o Wines – reassign temple build to worker
o Thebes – finish settler then start on swordsman, and keep building them
o Six – finish settler then build workers (This settler will be in inventory for when the war starts).
• Get embassy and ROP with the Sumerians to rebuild our 5-unit blockade in the east
• Make sure we have at least 3 units in Abydos to reduce flip risk.
• Do not attack the barb camp up north – there are so many of them they could actually kill off an AI settler/defender pair. When our settler is at the red dot we can kill them. It should be a good training mission for our troops.
• Please give in to AI demands this turnset.
• Keep a minimum of 100 gold so we can buy an alliance or do a quick unit upgrade somewhere if needed.


Long range planning:

Basic defense/war strategy – all ocean coastal cities should have one spear and one attacker (archer or sword). Leftover warriors will do military police in inner cities or mass near the Iroquois border in Four. I will want more defenders in Abydos and Four, and two groups for the first war – 15 swords with a few vet spears to defend, and a small group of 5 swords with a defender. The small group will go in the west to take out the Iro city at the start of the war. This is going to take a little while to get ready. I may later decide we need more.

This is key: we are going to need gold to buy off the other AIs into military alliance against our victim. And it will be hard to do this if we buy one tech at a time!

working on Monarchy (7 turns)

Ground Rules: Do not let a city get under 2 when producing worker / settler
Make sure no entertainers. If so, get MP's in city and/or increase luxury slider. If others ask for gold, give it to them (not much longer).
Grab the rest of the available land. Do not take out barbarian camp in the North East as there are a lot of units in there. This will help us because if a boat comes over to try to drop a settler, the barbarians should take that computer player out.
Produce more workers.
Produce Swords and spears.
Keep building curraghs / galleys and send them South and West.
Try to establish embassy with Sumerians.
Convert to Monarchy.
Make sure we have at least 3 units in Abydos.
Keep minimum of 100 gold.
MAKE WISE TECH TRADES.

Before turn: Switched Abydos to walls (7 turns left). Changed Seven to build swordsman (23 turns). Changed 5 to build swordsman (7 turns). Switched wines to build worker (8 turns). Wines is at size 1 and should expand in 8 turns). Moved Archer from Bong to Abydos. Placed an embassy in the City of Ur in the Sumerian City. Their city is a size 8. They are building a temple which will be complete in 3 turns. They have the great lighthouse. 1 luxury hooked up. 4 sheilds per turn. 3 extra food per turn. 2 units garrisoned. Offered Sumerians right of passage and he will give us 14 gold. 5 man blockade is now a reality again. In cycling the cities, we have some unhappy workers but no entertainers.

IBT - Iroquois unhappy about us being in their territory. Our mistake. We will move. Bong created an ancient Calvery.

1) 170 BC – Moved archer to bong to pacify unhappy worker.

IBT – Thebes produced Settler. Started on Swordsman.

2) 150BC – All the AI's have Philosophy, Code of Laws, Literature, Currency, Monarchy and Construction. Earlier 1 tech trades is making this really tough. We need to find the other civs on the other continent. Settler en-route to White dot and orange dot.

IBT – Iroquois complain about us being in their territory again. We appologize. Two produces Swordsman. Create worker next (3 turns). The city is at size 3. Deer created Swordsman. Create settler next (10 turns). The city is at size 4. Lost a curragh.

3) 130BC – Send swordsman to Abydos. Sent a swordsman to Cheese. Iroquois are in the next age.

IBT – Six creates settler. Start on worker (5 turns). Adydos culture expanded city borders. Lost another Curragh.

4) 110BC – Sent settler to red dot. Our Curragh found China.:clap: They are also into the next age:cry: . Built an embassy in Beijing of China for 87 gold. They are building the Great Library (24 turns left). They are in Monarchy. They have a temple in their city and 3 units fortified. They are size 7 producing 12 shields per turn and 3 extra food per turn. Moving personel North of six so iroquois galley travelling that way will have a difficult time settling.

IBT - Iroquois ask us to leave their territory. We comply. Three produced a Galley. Produce another (6 turns). Lost our Curragh that found china.

5) 90BC – Not much to report.

Summary: Established embassy in sumeria. Curragh found continent to the west and found China. Established an embassy there. Monarchy is almost done. Everybody is technologically advanced. We can't make any more advantageous trades. I don't know how we can come back unless we get the great library so we can acquire all the techs. I am very concerned since China has 23 more turns until they get the Great Library. Help old wise Zerksees.

3 settlers are moving into their respective areas. Next turn, 2 settlers will be able to drop leaving the red dot to be settled in. This should be another 6 or 7 turns before the settler is dropped in the red square. No entertainers appeared in any of the turns. We do have some unhappy working citizens but that is the extent of it. We are producing a good amount of gold per turn. We need to get into the next age.

114740

Excellent job with the curragh! I was surprised you found the Chinese to the west.

Going forward, there are several ways I can think of to get out of this situation, all of them require war.

First steps:

Recognize we are behind because we did not make good tech trades. All of the AI we know are near equal, so we do not have chances to buy a tech and sell it for other techs. This needs to change. Exploration must continue to see if we can find a backward AI who we can trade with, or we have to make one backward.

It is not time to panic but it is time to make some adjustments to strategy. The most probable outcome is that we need a war. To be better at war our cities now need to grow so we can produce more shields and therefore more units. More citizens also gets us more gold.

We have enough settlers for the moment. Only Six and Wines should be building workers and settlers. Two settlers and the rest workers. I was hoping to wait a little longer on this but since we re so far behind in tech action needs to be taken now. Six can build spearman in between if population gets too low. Deer can be changed to swordsman – use the whip before converting to monarchy to get 20 shields.

Send the galley due south. Three tiles south of its current location is a sea tile. Maybe there is another civ down there that is isolated and can we can trade techs.

Once that settler gets to the red dot, we can reduce the 5 unit blockade. Just put a unit on the plains tile 1 north of the black dot and the others can be sent to position. Also the blockade at the two-tile choke in the north would no longer be needed.

As workers finish tasks send them to the east and build roads to Akwesasne.

Cities finishing buildings should be allowed to finish. After that:

Bong – suicide galley building until all civs are met and landmasses are mapped
Wines, orange dot, red dot – worker building
Six – Settler/worker building
Thebes, Two, Three, Abydos, Four, Five, Seven, Cheese, white dot – sword/spear building
Gems – finish forbidden palace

Did I miss any?

From here there are a few possibilities.

1) Attack the Iroquois. Since we are currently in a trade with them, this will have to wait 15 more turns. We should consider buying the Sumerians into the war – this may cost a good amount of gpt (do not pay straight gold as we want our money back if they make peace before 20 turns). War weariness will be bad for their republics. We do not want to eliminate the Iroquois yet, just weaken them so we can get some techs from them for peace, and trade for our techs as they will fall behind with fewer cities. Our initial attacks will be at Centralia and Akwesasne – the road will be handy to get in our support troops.

At the moment our military is average compared to them. Since they have no iron or horses they should be easy target – for emperor that is.

2) Attack the Sumerians. This will have to wait many turns until the ROP is over. This will only net us one city but we can buy the Iroquois into the war. We can also use the hooked up roads and sell the Iroquois some of our iron and they will have an advantage over the Sumerians, plus they will be our buffer zone. Maybe we could even get a tech for our iron. Right now Sumer is in the lead and it would be good to take them down a notch or two.

3) The unpredictable. Maybe a war will break out in the meantime. If we are lucky we can get a tech as part of a military alliance deal, as long as it does not break any of our deals. This would probably mean a war against the Zulu, since we have ROP with Sumer and gpt with Iro. If that is the case then we should just take the one city in the north then lay back and wait.

Maybe we will meet that slightly backward AI and catapult our technologies forward.

Lurker opinions?

working on Monarchy (2 turns)

90BC - continued.... Switched Wines to settler. Changed Deer to Swordsman. Switched Two to Swordsman. Took out a barbarian horseman with Ancient Calvery.

IBT – Greece and China signed a peace treaty. Barbarians took out an ancient calvery. The AC reached elite status. A strong barb horseman took out his 3 bars with 1 hit point left. Bong produced another Ancient Calvery. Zulu are building Sun Tzu's Art of War.

6) 70BC – founded the city of Booey. Started on Spearman (20 turns). Founded the city of Alps. Started building Swordsman. Build road by Alps where the citizen is working.

IBT – Monarchy was learned. Start learning Currency. Thebes produced Swordsman. Started on another swordsman. Four created Barracks. Start on spearman (5 turns). Five Created Swordsman. Began another swordsman (8 turns). Abydos completed Walls. Started another Galley (8 turns). Our galley was lost in treacherous waters exploring South.

7) 50BC – Made it difficult for Iroquois to exit the galley in unclaimed territory. Hurried production in Deer, Two and Three. Initiated the change of governments. Anarchy for 2 turns.

IBT – Two produced Swordsman. Start on another swordsman. Three produced Galley. Start on another Galley. Deer produced Spearman. Start on another Spearman.

8) 30BC - There is an entertainer spotted in Bong. No matter how much I increase the luxury slider, he will not switch to a worker. I added a 2nd MP there and still it did not switch. Why?... Took out 2 barbarian horsemen.

IBT – Switched our government to Monarchy. Iroquois started walking in our territory. I will send troops over to escort them appropriately.

9) 10 BC – took out the barbarian camp. No upgrades to our mighty military. We are earning 12 gold per turn now.

IBT – Iroquois would like to trade Philosophy for 160 gold. We don't accept the deal as we as the people of Egypt do not trade for techs that we can not profit from. They will be giving us tech for peace soon... Bong produced Galley. Started another Galley in 6 turns. Six produced a worker. Started another worker. Four expanded borders.

10) 10 AD – Our galley made it thru the sea south. It appears we have found an island but further exploration will show what is really there. Bong no longer has an entertainer. Galley created from bong will attempt to head towards the China coast.

Summary: Lost 1 Ancient Calvery to barbarians. Produced cities of booey and apple. Switched to Monarchy. Galley made it South thru the sea to expose the tip of a land mass. Hopefully, it is not an island.

Zerksees is up next.
114869

8) 30BC - There is an entertainer spotted in Bong. No matter how much I increase the luxury slider, he will not switch to a worker. I added a 2nd MP there and still it did not switch. Why?...
...

IBT – Iroquois would like to trade Philosophy for 160 gold. We don't accept the deal as we as the people of Egypt do not trade for techs that we can not profit from. They will be giving us tech for peace soon...
...

10) 10 AD – Our galley made it thru the sea south. It appears we have found an island but further exploration will show what is really there. Bong no longer has an entertainer. Galley created from bong will attempt to head towards the China coast.

At any time you can have the governor reassign the workers. Just go to that city and restart the governor for that city, and it will reassign the workers immediately.

Good thing you saved the gold. 160 gold was cheap but we can do better.

Excellent news on the southern exploration!

Losing the ancient cav to barbs is disappointing but not show stopping. I am hoping he was under a spearman when he was attacked. If we had lost three on the other hand ....

OK on with my turn.

10 AD – pre-flight. Change Abydos to barracks. Look at CrpMapstat utility to check culture flip risk. I have to go back on one recommendation – so I change Alps to a temple. Open up the 5 unit blockade to see if Iro will try to build a city. This is turn 128. Somehow a couple times we did not play 10 turns, so I will play 11 this time and lomax can play 11.

IBT – Iroquois start Sun Tzu, they do have a settler headed up to put down another city. SoZ produces ancient cavalry

Turn 1) 30 AD – Bringing units in alignment for war. In general this means I will be pulling units back from the north, assembling a good force for the Centralia attack and the rest will be in Four for the Akwesasne offensive. I plan to leave at least a couple ancient cavalries in the northwest to address any boat landings by Iro.
Our exploring galley heads south to explore the new world, and spots a goody hut on an island.
Restore the 5-unit blockade.
Four workers are now on the extra iron to build a road. Put a spearman with them for good measure.
Change Bong to barracks – this will allow our ancient cavalry to come out with an extra hit point.
Notice we are only making 13 gpt – ouch looks like monarchy not helping much at the moment.

IBT – Six: Worker -> Worker (this means it finished a worker and is starting to build another)

Turn 2) 50 AD – Our galley in the south discovers the Greeks. They have seven cities, but they are ahead all visible techs just like our neighbors. :( More unit shuffling. Our second galley is called back, as I know the Greeks and the Chinese were already at war, so they are no doubt connected by land or coastal tiles.

IBT – Seven: Sword -> Sword. Four: Spear -> Sword

Turn 3) 70 AD – Final Frontier is founded in the north. Our galley moves one turn and spots French units. Check with Joan and she lacks currency. :mischief: Our patience has paid off. Buy currency from Greece (or was it China?) for 6 gpt and 194 gold. I shopped for the lowest price. After some more negotiating I decide to buy code of laws and philosophy from France, give currency, 9 gpt and 15 gold. France enters middle ages. Cut science to 0% as we have 9 gold left and are making +9 gpt.
I took down the 5 unit wall for keeps as these units are needed for the war.

So we spent 15 gpt and 209 gold to get currency, code of laws and philosophy. Not great but it is a start.
If we are lucky Inca will be more backward and have construction.

IBT – Thebes: Sword -> marketplace. Deer: spear -> sword. Sumerians are building Knights Templar.

Turn 4) 90 AD – Our workers have finished the road on the iron. I check the diplo screen and both the Zulu and the Iroquois will give construction, 50 gold for iron. I am concerned our trade route to the Zulu will get cut when we start war with Iroquois and Hiawatha is going to get iron from us another way. ;)
Met the Inca. We have no techs to trade them either. In fact they are leading the game in score.
Change three from galley to marketplace. I want to get some extra gold from these core cities.

IBT – Six: Settler -> worker. Sumer city of Zabalam in the north has a culture expansion.

Turn 5) 110 AD – Iroquois settler wants to put a city near black dot. We have two units there so we will block a little. I will leave one unit on the hill until the city is built. This will make sure he builds on the plains, reducing his defense value.
We now have six swords and three ancient cavalries in range of Centralia. That is enough.
The suspense is killing me!

IBT – Inca and Shaka warn, we apologize to both. Shaka is warning because we have a warrior down there and I decided to wander into his territory again. Don’t have enough gold to set up embassy so we have to leave. Sumerians are also sending a settler towards black dot.
Soz -> Ancient Cavalry
Five: sword -> sword

Turn 6) 130 AD - Preparations continue. Been shuffling units around. Keep at least two units in the Alps to reduce culture flip risk. Workers busy roading to Final Frontier, making improvements around Four and Abydos. Decide to let Iroquois build near black dot so Sumerians cannot. Iroquois can “hold the fort” until we are ready to settler there. :lol:
We have 16 worker, 7 warrior, 12 archer, 11 sword, 2 galley, 5 ancient cavalry. We have 16 cities. We could use a few more workers, but I think I know how we are going to get them. :mischief:

IBT - Joan warns, we apologize. Two: sword -> sword. Bong: barracks -> sword.

Turn 7) 150 AD – More prep work, staged some bait to draw units away from Akwesasne. I decide to bring back the galley exploring in hopes to bring down a unit and get the goody hut.
Hiawatha has a boat near Final Frontier. I warn him and he will move his troops.

IBT – Nothing much

Turn 8) 170 AD – Add vet spear to Centralia attack group. Gems is making 4 shields per turn, forbidden palace due in 36. Our treasury is recovering as we now have 57 gold and +9gpt. Even though we are adding units our gpt is going up. This is because our cities are growing and increasing our gpt.

IBT – Iroquois found city near black dot. They built it at the base of a volcano – not too smart. Four: sword -> spear. Abydos: barracks -> spear

Turn 9) 190AD – Akwesasne attack force located in Four consists of: 7 swordsmen, 2 archer and 1 ancient cavalry. That leaves no one at Four to defend though. Decide to change Thebes to swordsman from marketplace. This cost us 5 shields. More unit shuffling.

IBT – Thebes: sword -> spear. Deer: sword -> spear

Turn 10) 210 AD – We are now up to 75 gold and +12 gpt. Workers pulling back from eastern front.
Our trade deal with the Iroquois is over.
According to our military advisor our military is strong compared to the Iroquois, so I put out our bait and declare war on the Iroquois. 5 swords, an archer and a spear invade Centralia. Four ancient cavalries in position to attack if needed. We are going to take this city no matter what. I did pull an archer out of Six and sent him towards Centralia. If Hiawatha has an archer in there maybe he will come after our lone archer – who is out of reach of the city.

On the eastern front I do nothing – as I want to give the bait one turn to work.

IBT – Iroquois archer takes out our spearman fortified on the iron [0-1]:mad:
Bong: sword -> settler. SoZ -> ancient cavalry
Renew ROP with Sumerians collecting 14 gold.
Sumerians are building Sistine Chapel, and Inca are building Knights Templar

Turn 11) 230 AD - I am disappointed no units appeared near our bait.

Invasion Centralia:
Veteran sword leads the attack and dies against spear man [0-2]
Regular sword attacks and defeats spearman [1-2]
Regular sword attacks and defeats spearman [2-2]
Regular sword attacks and defeats spearman [3-2]
Centralia falls and “we don’t want it – raze the city!”
It was size 4, dropped to size 3 when we took it, and razing gives us one slave worker.

Look at archer on our iron near Four. I really don't want our iron supply cut off. Decide to look at combat calculator. Veteran unit attacking at 3 can defeat elite archer on mountain 59% of the time. Take a chance and attack with ancient cavalry – and the archer is defeated. [4-2]

Send a stack of swords and archer to the mountain directly next to Akwesasne, which is currently size 5. I moved the bait (see pic) further into Iroquois territory. If they won't attack it we can use it to pillage tiles.

Change Cheese to settler as it appears we are going to need settlers soon.

I checked the F4 and found we could still trade iron with the Zulu and the Sumerians. I am not sure how but we can.

Sell our iron to Zululand, collecting construction, literature, 50 gold and 4 gpt. Voila we are in the middle ages. Time to do a little day trading. :p
France has republic and monotheism
China is even with us in tech
Inca and Greeks have republic, monotheism and feudalism
Sumerians and Zulu have republic, monotheism, feudalism and engineering.

Bingo tech disparity is found.

We buy engineering from Gilgamesh for iron and 28 gold.
Sell engineering to Inca collecting republic, monotheism, 90 gold and 23 gpt.
Buy feudalism from Greeks giving engineering, 21 gpt and 95 gold.

So for two iron, 6 gpt and 17 gold we get literature, construction, republic, engineering, monotheism, feudalism. Our science advisor proudly states “We are technologically advanced!” That is one way to catch up on emperor level.

Welcome to emperor level.

Analysis for next 10 turns later today.

well, the war's started and we've already reduced one city. so far so good.

not to be a downer, but i have some questions:

what's our purpose: Iro annihilation, Iro elimination from contention, make the Iro a vassal, round off our territory?

what's our strategy: we have army group c(entralia) up north, army group a(kwesasne) in the southeast.
- do we take akwesasne with a (cutting off the Iro north of there) then have c take tyconderoga and st. regis?
- a takes akwesasne, c drives for grand river, new troops handle tyc and st. r?
- is there a city we'd really like to have (e.g. one with a wonder)?
- how much scorched-earth do we want in Iro territory?

why did we raze centralia?

that tech trading ruled! if we had done that before starting the war, would we have started the war?

i don't mean to sound critical (the war was definitely needed - we couldn't accept the iro so big so close), i'm just trying to understand how to make decisions at emperor level.

also, andy should stop wasting money on cars that'll never handle like an mr2 and buy a machine that can play civ4. pitboss is out in beta and i'm looking to get a gang together.

Tominator2,

I am writing this from my new P4 3.0 ghz that I am quite sure is capable of handling Civ 4. I refuse to give those people more of my money. I also figure why go to the next level if I have not mastered this one yet.:)

We razed Centralia to get a free worker. This will save us the gpt cost of supporting a worker. I became a big fan of raze and replace while playing Sid level. If Centralia was size 3 or less we would have kept it since you don't get free workers until a city is size 4. Free workers are slow but cost us no gpt. This is a big advantage to us, so I want as many free workers as I can get. This includes taking enemy settlers for the two free workers. (If it had a wonder we wanted we would have kept the city in lieu of the workers)

Akwesasne is next, cutting off cities to the north, which will be ours shortly after.

There is no one clear reason for attacking the Iroquois. Extorting techs during peace process, expanding our borders/productive capabilities is another. At this stage in the game expansion requires conquest. Other factors include proximity and lack of key resource (iron). Taking Centralia, Akwesasne, St.Regis and Tyendenaga would be enough to call the war a success. I would really like Grand River and those wines to the south. Those luxes would be great trade bait. If they get ahead of us in tech they might get peace, but if not we'll take them out.

We could have traded for those tech several turns before, and stayed out of the war. But then what? There is no place to expand. Right now we have a big advantage because of our natural resource (iron). The more land we own the better our chances of owning the next resource we need (saltpeter, then later rubber, aluminum, etc.) My style of play is not one of trying to eek out a win. I want to systematically take down the AI one by one, each time adding to my power base. The Iroquois are first. Whether they survive or not depends if we need to stop fighting, and if they have any value to us alive.

And though your MR2 may be able to out handle my Camaro, that is only because I really don't care about that enough to do something about it. What I do care about is acceleration, and considering my trans am runs 12.60's in the 1/4 mile, I think it has your MR2 covered. I am thinking real serious about a new Camaro in 07 or 08 when they come out.

Next 10 turns:

- General build orders: Settlers to replace the cities we take and war units. You may end up building settlers anywhere except Thebes, Two and Bong. Let Two finish marketplace, let forbidden palace and temples already started finish. You can change some of the pikeman builds to medieval infantry if you like. After Thebes completes the pike, have it build marketplace.
- I left only one unit in Gems. Put a second unit there to eliminate the entertainer as soon as possible. One of the units from the Centralia assault can go there.
- Give in to demands for gold from Sumeria, Zulu, Inca right now, but not technologies, resources or luxuries. OK to reject demands of any type from the other AI for now.
- Use the settler from Six to fill the gap where Centralia was. The other two settlers can be used to replace Akwesasne and any other city we take.
- Secure the iron near Four as quickly as possible, or we will lose our ability to make medieval inf. and pikeman.
- Taking Akwesasne should be our next military objective. If it is still size four or larger I recommend razing it for the worker(s). We can put our own city there when our settlers get built. After that we should go for St. Regis and Tyendenaga. St. Regis I would not raze unless we have a settler nearby, as we do not want the Sumerians building there. If you achieve that go after Grand River next.
- If you need to bring Sumerians in by all means do, but I would try it yourself first. Right now they want all our gpt and all our gold for a military alliance which will benefit them greatly. If you do not make an alliance, you can end the war whenever you get a tech or a city from them. This is at the general's discretion.

- As workers finish tasks, check for tiles worked by citizens that are not improved, or cities that are about to expand and need improvements. Start near the core. Also may need some to hook up the new cities.
- I am not expecting any tech trades, though you can watch for them. We can plan to get one or two when we make peace with the Iroquois. Until then leave science at 0% and build gold.
- The warrior on the road NE of Gems is there to prevent pillaging/blocking by anyone.
- The elite warrior outside Tyendenaga was planned to take out that city. But since we have no settler to put there we should wait until the city reaches size two or we have a settler to place there. We do not want the Sumerians to settle there.
- Note: The Sumerians have ROP with Iroquois. Obviously if we buy them into the war they will break their ROP and ruin their trading reputation. We also gave ROP to Sumerians.

Medium range plans

Do not buy education until we know where the Great Library is built.
Should we start a prebuild for Leonardo's Workshop?


Roster:

lomax - up next
Tominator2 - on deck
bobbabooey
zerksees

For your battles you should use a combat calculator like this one (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=75765). Its a little better than the one I used so I will be adopting it.

For me the point of this tool is to know your chances of success before attacking, and not to waste units on longshot attacks unless there is no other choice.

IBT – Lost spearmen near Grand River

Took Akweasne
Lost swordsman
Got Elite
Razed City (total four workers they had a settler)

Iro: moving settler to open territory had to attacked to prevent new city lost swordsmen, but got 2 workers

Lost cavalry but secured iron
Move captured workers to four

3(270)
Position force to movement on ST Re
Lost Swordsmen
The great library is in Sumer (Sumerians)

4 (280)
Another Iro settler is on the move lost cavalry but got two workers (moving them to 4)
Moved attack group next to St R

IBT (France told us to move the galley – we did)

5 (290)
Took St R installed new governor

6 (300)
Tyc is now a size to will start the attack
Sent 2 units to help the attack group from the north
Sumerians are moving a settler to the open territory, I will start to block,
I was going to drop the city on the ruins, but if I move it the southwest, I can claim all open territory with out any boarder expansion

7 (310)
Took Tyc and now have a Warrior Named Lomax with a Leader who is in Tyc, keeping him there until we have a safe passage out .
The Iro are mounting a counter attack group
Drop a city Pithon all open territory is now claimed

8(320)
The Iro have mounted warriors
Lost a swordsmen in counter attacks
Busirs is found on the remains on akwesanse
Made a couple elites on attack the iro counter force. There counter force is being reduced
Started to build roads from 4 to Tyc
IRo will talk to us and want peace – will give us Chivalry, but no on the Theo

IBT – China tells us to leave – we will

330
Inca declare war on China
Iro There counter force has been reduced to a couple units
They still want peace and Theo is getting close to a deal


340
Reposition units and letting them healing

Thoughts
Move sword to the unclaimed square north of St R with the Ivory
Should we build a temple in St Re, for expansion and prevent culture flip
If we continue the press the Iro we should be able to get a peace and a couple of tech
Finish the road between four and Tyc
Yes should start pre build for Leo’s workshop (but I didn’t start it)

Got a great leader from a warrior! :goodjob: I can't recall getting ever an army from a warrior.

I want opinions about what to put in the army. Either ancient cavalry or medieval infantry? I am leaning toward medieval infantry - A medieval infantry army would be wicked this time of game. Put all the same unit type in there whatever you do.

I am glad to see that there was not much movement in the tech race this time. We can probably go another 10 without a trade.

I am also glad you did not take chivalry for peace. The land will be worth way more than a tech. The land near Grand River has some great potential to be productive

We actually have one more unit than we did at the start of lomax's turn, so we are still in pretty good shape.


Analysis - short version

- Move leader to Four immediately and convert to an army He is not safe at the base of a volcano.
- Build temple in St. Regis
- Get a unit to Gems and Five for MP - each have an entertainer in them.
- We should take Grand River or Cattargus next. They are both decent size and should be razed and replaced. Take the army and 5-6 other units.
- Build more settlers and get them to the front lines as soon as possible
- I would continue this war for the next 10 turns as we are doing well.
- Clear out Iro units in our territory (you can leave the archer on the mountain - he will come down eventually)
- Cities like Five and Six could probably start on marketplaces soon.
- One tech is not enough for peace.
- If you need input, stop/save the game at any time and ask for it.
- Edit: Turn off the governor in St. Regis and starve it down to size 1.

Tominator2 you are next.

I want opinions about what to put in the army. Either ancient cavalry or medieval infantry? I am leaning toward medieval infantry - A medieval infantry army would be wicked this time of game. Put all the same unit type in there whatever you do.

I totally agree medieval infantry should be built into the army. They will not move as quick as the ancient cavalry but it will definitely be a great force.

I want opinions about what to put in the army.
You can wait for Knights. Does somebody have Chivalry to trade?

You can wait for Knights. Does somebody have Chivalry to trade?
Several have chivalry. Problem is there are no extra horses to trade on our continent. The next army might be knights.

highlights:
- fighting was extremely heavy
- we have a medinf army under Ramses
- haven't lost yet

concerns:
- we were very badly tactically prepared for this war. the mountainous area south of four is primo defensive terrain. we should have had cavalry and pikemen on each peak in a line from st. r to abydos. let the ai beat its head against that. as it was i spent most of my time killing archers and calvary off mountains. if he had thought to bring another spearman or two it would have been goodbye four. his lone spearman about half-killed our army.
- we have a lot of workers
- we could use some pikemen to defend against raids on our advancing troops

what the hell i was thinking (aka plans):
- a couple quick moves into Grand River and Cat turned into a knife fight for the heights around Four
- the need for units delayed some other builds (e.g. markets)
- we have a firm wall on the mountains
- Ramses is in Four healing

the next few turns:
- we might have enough to take GR
- if we do it without major losses, we'll probably have enough to take Cat
- after that, who can say?

summary:
340
- lost warrior to Iro archer
- Five: medinf -> medinf
- Cheese: settler -> harbor
- incans complete sun tzu
- greeks finish knights templar
- settler: cheese -> thebes
- medinf: Five -> mountain by Abydos
- cav: mtn west of busiris
- medinf: into Four to heal
- St Regis: starving
- workers north of Four move north
- elite swordsman beats archer out east
- medinf beats spearman by Grand River

350
- Ramses(leader) to Four
- Busiris area almost clean
- medinf fights off horse - now elite
- Four: medinf -> medinf
- Iro building Sistine chapel (they sense a nearness to the afterlife)

360
- medinf beats horse north of Grand River
- we have way more workers than work
- gathering a bunch of guys at Bus for run at Cat
- medinf and anccav lost on Iro turn
- Six: medinf -> medinf
- Deer: medinf -> medinf
- Iro trying to split Aby and Four

370
- both medinf -> Four (for Ramses)
- Thebes: marketplace -> medinf
- Two: medinf -> medinf
- Seven: medinf -> medinf
- Iro really mean it

380
- pulled some swordsmen out of Bus to clean out mountains south of Four
- lost horse in Iro territory and medinf near Aby
- army in Four holds off single archer
- Aby: medinf -> medinf
- Alps: temple -> pikeman

390
- Bong: anccav -> Abydos
- more hill-cleaning
- waiting to get enough force south
- pikeman into Four
- lost a swordsman and a medinf to counterattacks

400
- Four pretty much surrounded
- medinf almost there
- lost archer, beat horse
- Three: medinf -> medinf
- Four: medinf -> medinf
- where is he getting all these guys?

410
- Ramses has full army
- more hill-cleaning (horse and two archers)
- china offers alliance vs inca (another war) and rop - turn them down
- Tyn: spearman -> pikeman

420
- lost medinf, beat spear and 2 longbow in hills
- settlers head south
- Thebes: medinf -> medinf

Good job holding the Fourt (pun intended).

The reason we appear tactically unprepared is because I neglected to explain the tactics. I would let them attack Four. That is why it was built. It is on a hill and has walls and barracks. Put a pike or two in there with a few more support spears and archers underneath and let them attack it. Check the combat calculator. A veteran mounted warrior can only beat a fortified walled town on a hill veteran spearman 29% of the time, and if the spear survives it will be 100% healed next turn. He has the exact same odds against the spearman on a mountain, except the spear does not have the barracks and his buddies on the mountain. The MW would fare worse against the pikes, and the archers get cremated.

The odds on attacking their units, which of course will be on mountains or hills, are not in our favor. So let them come on down.

- we have way more workers than work

Take a look at this pic. What I see is tiles that citizens are on that are not
fully improved. One is in Thebes and the other is in Five. Two has the same
problem. We are not going to build more workers but we do need more.
Send some of them back near the core and the west to improve tiles we can
get benefit from.

Bobbabooey - You are next.

Next 10 turns:

- Get a unit to Gems and Five for MP - each have an entertainer in them (maybe was this done).
- On the warfront:
- I would continue this war for the next 10 turns as we are not yet in danger
- We should take Grand River or Cattargus next - raze and replace one at a time.
- Take the army, 5-6 other attacking units, and the replacement settler and some defenders.
- One tech is not enough for peace
- Consider military alliance with Zulu if offensive gets bogged down
- Keep another ancient cav back near the capital and west to deal with Iroquois boat landings, and anything else you think we need.

- See what you can do with tech trades. We have two irons, a gem luxury and a good bit of gpt to trade. Don’t waste gold on chivalry unless you can get it at the back end of a multi trade deal.
- Put a unit on the iron near Four before you trade it away.
- Get some workers back in the core to improve tiles that our citizens are working
- What to build:
- Cities like Five and Six could probably start on marketplaces soon. Some cities are maxing at size 6, pick one close to the capital and have it build an aqueduct.
- War units, mix and match med. inf and pikes.
- Build temple in St. Regis (maybe this was done)

- Make sure St. Regis has only one Iroquois citizen, then turn governor back on.
- If you need input, stop/save the game at any time and ask for it

Last 10 turn analysis:

Missions accomplished:
- Medieval infantry army established
- Built some settlers and moved them forward
- Marketplaces up and coming
- gold increasing, extra 63 gpt and 801 gold is very good
- As you mentioned – no cities or improvements lost
- No tiles pillaged

Areas of improvement:

1) I can see I blew it in the instructions I gave: - Clear out Iro units in our territory (you can leave the archer on the mountain - he will come down eventually)
I meant just the archers near St. Regis. So besides not telling Tominator2 to let them attack Four, I also said clear out their units. I just wanted those units in the north cleared out. Better tactics include letting new invaders are go for Four, where we should be expecting them. Protect the road into Four with a defender unit

2) Track your battle win-loss record in the log so we can see how well we are doing.

340
- lost warrior to Iro archer [0-1]
- Five: medinf -> medinf
- Cheese: settler -> harbor
- incans complete sun tzu
- greeks finish knights templar
- settler: cheese -> thebes
- medinf: Five -> mountain by Abydos
- cav: mtn west of busiris
- medinf: into Four to heal
- St Regis: starving
- workers north of Four move north
- elite swordsman beats archer out east [1-1]
- medinf beats spearman by Grand River [2-1]

350
- Ramses(leader) to Four
- Busiris area almost clean [units used?]
- medinf fights off horse - now elite [3-1]
- Four: medinf -> medinf
- Iro building Sistine chapel (they sense a nearness to the afterlife):lol:

360
- medinf beats horse north of Grand River [4-1]
- we have way more workers than work
- gathering a bunch of guys at Bus for run at Cat
- medinf and anccav lost on Iro turn [4-3]
- Six: medinf -> medinf
- Deer: medinf -> medinf
- Iro trying to split Aby and Four

370
- both medinf -> Four (for Ramses)
- Thebes: marketplace -> medinf
- Two: medinf -> medinf
- Seven: medinf -> medinf
- Iro really mean it [units lost or defeated?]

380
- pulled some swordsmen out of Bus to clean out mountains south of Four
- lost horse in Iro territory and medinf near Aby [4-5]
- army in Four holds off single archer [5-5]
- Aby: medinf -> medinf
- Alps: temple -> pikeman

390
- Bong: anccav -> Abydos
- more hill-cleaning [units used?]
- waiting to get enough force south
- pikeman into Four
- lost a swordsman and a medinf to counterattacks [5-7]

400
- Four pretty much surrounded
- medinf almost there
- lost archer, beat horse [6-8]
- Three: medinf -> medinf
- Four: medinf -> medinf
- where is he getting all these guys?

410
- Ramses has full army
- more hill-cleaning (horse and two archers) [9-8]
- china offers alliance vs inca (another war) and rop - turn them down
- Tyn: spearman -> pikeman

420
- lost medinf, beat spear and 2 longbow in hills [12-9]
- settlers head south
- Thebes: medinf -> medinf

By my count, in all 14 units were added during the last turn. Our inventory was 67 at the start of the turn and it is 67 at the end. This means we apparently lost five more units than reported, maybe there were also more victories than were reported. I can do much better analysis if I know the counts of units defeated and units lost. In succession games I see them reported in brackets as I have added to a copy of the last turn log above.

I bring this up because in order to get ahead of the AI we need to kill more of their units than we lose our own. At 12 wins vs 9 defeats (hence the [12-9]) I would rate the performance as average. If it was [12-14] this would be bad. We cannot sustain those odds for very long if we want to win.

I am planning additional analysis on this – time permitting.

2) Track your battle win-loss record in the log so we can see how well we are doing.my bad. as it is, i didn't note a battle unless it seemed important. isn't there a graph somewhere that says how many units we've killed, and of what type?Get a unit to Gems and Five for MPone of them got one - five i think.

as for tactics, i'm not sure letting four take the pounding is the best path. it's not that the units in four can't take it (zerksees is definitely right - they can), it's that the ai has shown a willingness to skirt four and drive west. if it does that it can get into our core and mess us up good. we would be forced to defend/hunt them down there. we'd be better off defending where we get a bonus and have nothing important built.

if this were a defensive war funneling the bad guys toward four is an awesome idea. the place is a volcano short of being mordor - a real fortress.

Tech slider at 0 to accumulate gold

Ground rules: Don't let a city get under 2 when production worker / settler make sure no entertainers. produce medieval and Pikeman Build a couple more galleys and get a worker over to island with swampland. To get a set of workers over there, send an empty galley out 1 turn and if it survives, load galley 2 (galley in safe waters) with workers. Take galley to galley that survived. Switch workers to 2nd galley and take that galley over to safe waters. Result, no lost workers. Check Embassies to make sure they are set up in all civs. Keep a minimum of 200 gold. Make Wise tech trades.

Plan: Put most of the units sitting on the hill creating the "wall" into Four and Abydos. Keep 2 archers and 5 defensive units in Four. Keep 3 defensive units in Abydos. Attempt to take Cattaraugus first by assembling army along with other offensive and defensive units near St. Regis. Once it is taken, raze it and replace with settler. Check gems has an mp and St. Regis has a temple. If St. Regis still needs to be starved down to 1, make sure the citizen is a tax collector to collect extra gold. make sure units are left behind the rear for any iroquois boats dropping small support. Catch up on all techs by purchasing 1 tech and trading to all others. Send workers back to improve tiles that are being worked that are not improved. General rule of thumb: Grassland should contain mines and Plains should be irrigated. Start five and six on marketplaces. St regis is at a 2. Unsure if it was already starved down to 1 so check only 1 iroquios citizen

Before turn: Verified Gems has MP. Switched St. Regis to a Temple. Took down the "Wall" and moved them into cities. Both citizens in St. Regis were iroquois. Changed them to tax collectors. Zulu, Sumeria, Inca, Iroquois and greece all have Theology, Chivalry, invention.

France and china have the same techs as as we do. Keep an eye on this so we can see where the parity is so we can purchase a tech and trade it around. The Iroquois will give us 1 tech for peace and no cities. We will drag the war on. I would accept a city for peace. There was an entertainer in Gems. I pulled the warrior back to the city. Changed Three to Galley.

IBT - Greece declared war on China. Sumeria wished to continue right of passage. Accepted and Gildamesh gave us 33 gold. Bong produced an Ancient Calvary. Zulus are building Sistine Chapel. Sumerians are building Leonardo's Workshop (for us). Iro landed a spearman near three.

1) 440 AD – Placed Pikeman on top of our iron near Busiris. Ancient Calvary took out Spearman [1-0]. Shifting troops to start an attack on Cattaraugus. Fortify most units so they can get up to full strength in baracks cities. France now has Theology. I am feeling we should be buying Invention but I am holding off until another civ gets chivalry.

IBT – Shaka wants to give us 4 gpt for iron. I am willing to give him iron and 2GPT and 7 gold for Invention. Done Deal. Zulu does not have Gunpowder. Two produced Medieval Infantry create marketplace next. Iroquois troops are aligning to attempt to attack Four since I took the "wall" down. I will let them fall on our swords and pikemen. Three produced Galley. Start on another Galley (4 turns). Bong Created Marketplace. Next is Pikeman (4 turns). Six produced MI - Start on Marketplace. Deer produced MI. Create another MI (8 turns). Abydos created MI. Create another MI (6 turns)

2) 450 AD – Take out a bowman from Burisis with an AC. [2 - 0] Moved AC back into city. Sumerians have gunpowder. Turns out I made a bad deal. France and china must have just got Invention. I purchased Gunpowder from Sumerians for 837 gold, 50 GPT and Iron. I re-sold Gunpowder to Incas for Theology and Chivalry, 129 gold and 40 GPT. The inca have Education. Zulu has printing Press. Sumeria has printing press and education. After performing a quick scan, we have 1 saltpeter not hooked up yet. Priority #1 is to get workers to the mountain and get that hooked up. Our attack on Cattarugus will begin on the next turn. Built an embassy in the Inca capital. The pyramids and sun Tsu's art of war are located in their capital of Cuzco. They have 4 units garrisoned. Producing 7 shields per turn. 23 foot per turn. Size 12. They are in Republic.

IBT – I was stupid. I only put 1 pikeman on the iron. It took out a long bowman [3 - 1]. It held back 1 of their mounted warriors and the 2nd one took out the pikeman. Their mounted warriors are attempting to go back to St. Regis.

3) 460 ad – Attacked Mounted Warrior (MW) with MI. [5 - 1] Took out MW with AC [5- 1]. Elite MW took out Mw [6 - 1]. Army took out spearman in Cattaraugus. [7- 1]. Established embassy with Zulu. Oracle is located in their capital. 15 sheilds per turn. 20 food per turn. 4 units garrisoned.

IBT – Our fortified galley withstood an iroquois onslaught. [8- 1] Thebes produced MI. Started on Heroic Epic (20 turns). Four produced MI. Start on Marketplace (13 turns). Zulu are building Leonardo's workshop.

4) 470 AD – Attack on Cattarugus starts. Elite MI attack spearman just made it... [9- 1]. Elite swordsman attack spearman winner [10 1]. Elite swordsman vs MW. Winner [11- 1] and we take the city and raze it and acquire 3 workers. AC vs longbowman [12 - 1]. AC vs MW lost [12 - 2]. MI vs archer. Lose [12 - 3]. MI vs same archer. Win [13 - 3]. AC takes out MW [14 - 3]. Army takes out bowman [15 - 3].

IBT - Seven produced MI. Produce another MI. Niagra Falls (IRO) completed Sistine chappel for us. Zulu's, Sumerians and inca are buidling Leonardo's workshop. Sumerians building Magellan's voyage.

5) 480 AD – Established eight. Start on Temple (30 turns). Elite Swordsman takes out spearman with settler underneath. [16 - 3] We gain 2 more slave workers. MI takes out bowman in mountains [17 - 3]. Sent Galley out to sea to see if I can get a worker to island.

IBT - Three produced Galley. Create another galley (4 turns). Bong produced Pikeman. Start Aqueduct (12 turns). Sumerians created Leonardo's workshop. Inca building Copernicus' observatory.

6) 490 AD - Galley was not lost at sea so I was able to transfer 1 worker to the island to clear it out. Army attacks grand river. Takes out spearman [18 - 3]. Army attacks grand river again and takes out spearman [19 - 3]. Army is dangerously low in hit points.

IBT – Incas ask us to get out of their territory. We comply. Longbowman attempts to take out the army. close but Unsucessful [20 - 3]. Longbowman takes out our swordsman and takes their 2 workers back. [20 - 4].

7) 500 AD – MI takes out spearman. [21 - 4] Fortify the army outside of grand river. AC attacks Grand River spearman. winner [22 - 4]. Swordsman takes out longbowman [23 - 4]. MI takes out bowman taking back our slave workers [24 - 4]. Grand River should be under egyptian control next turn.

IBT – Five Created MI. Create Marketplace (12 turns). Bursiris produced Pikeman. Start on Musketman (30 turns). Abydos created MI. Begin on Musketman. (9 turns). Lost Galley in treacherous waters.

8) 510 AD - Switched three to a settler. MI Defeated spearman in Grand River [25 - 4]. MI defeated Spearman in Grand River and took the city. We razed it (settler en-route). [26 - 4]. We gained 4 more workers. I pressed the wrong key and had a MI go south rather than North West. He exposed a part of the iro capital but there is a longbowman waiting to greet him.

I will play 3 more turns tomorrow as the tominator only played 9 turns.

115548

Edit: bobbabooey nice work! Next time you are up I will have you write your own flight plan.

Tominator2 - for your benefit I decided to replay the nine turns you played. Hopefully this will give you (and lurkers if there are any left) some insight into the finer points of waging war zerksees style.

340 AD
move warrior to Gems, FP done in 24 rather than 32, gold up by 2 gpt. Move warrior from city to grassland road to cover

IBT
Archer defeats our sword who was in the forest by Busiris [0-1]
Six: med inf -> med inf
Five: med inf -> pike
Cheese: settler -> settler
Inca start Sun Tzu and Greeks start Knights Templar

1) 350 AD
change Tyendenaga to temple
no techs to trade
at Busiris med inf defeats archer, and elite sword defeats mounted warrior [2-1]
elite sword defeats archer at St. Regis [3-1]
upgrade one vet sword to med inf for 30 gold
change St. Regis to starve and build worker, stop worker from building fortress at Final Frontier
army now in Four needing filled up
fortify exploring galley to not spoil the regular game
moving workers south – slaves with little food or water
pull units from St.Regis leaving two archers
put anc cav on road east of Four fortified

IBT
Elite sword defeats mounted warrior outside Busiris [4-1]
2nd MW attacks but retreats at redline
Four: med inf -> med inf
St. regis -> worker -> temple
Iro, Inca and sumer all working Sistine Chapel

2) 360 AD
anc cav takes down MW [5-1]
5 workers head west
we are at +52 gpt

IBT
Pike defeats MW, MW defeats pike, our sword defeats archer [7-2]. We are fortified on hill outside Four.
Six: med inf -> pike
Deer: med inf -> pike
Seven: med inf -> market

3) 370 AD
Elite anc cav defeats spear on grassland [8-2]. Tominator you are correct they are headed west, but as soon as they get on the grassland I am cutting them down
Army is filled and moved SE of Four with 8 workers to road the tile
+48 gpt

IBT
Fortified galley gets to watch Inca and Chinese battle – Chinese defending spear defeats Inca knight
Thebes: marker -> med inf
Two: med inf -> med inf
4) 380AD
several have invention but Inca and Greece do not
anc cav takes down archer on grassland west of Four [9-2]
buy invention from Shaka for 45 gpt and 288 gold, sell it to Inca for Chivalry, Theology and 20 gpt, sell chivalry to France for 52 gold. Net 3 tech for cost of 25 gpt and 236 gold
hill tile south of Four is roaded

IBT
MW attacks pike fortified on hill and loses [10-2]
Abydos: med inf -> med inf
Alps: temple -> pike
Zulu building Sistine
SoZ puts out another ancient cav

5) 390 AD
we now have 4 Iro MW, 1 archer and two spears in our territory, they are following the mountain ridge west, except eventually they get off, and then they get crushed
anc cav takes out another spear on the grassland [11-2]
oops a settler was on go to and is now in range of the Iro MW. Put a pike and a sword on to defend. Sadly they are in the grassland.
Army and workers cannot move to mountain tile as Iros are there. Not going to attack on a mountain so we wait

IBT
MW attacks pike and loses – pike is redlined [12-2]
MW attacks sword and wins [12-3]

6) 400 AD
anc cav avenges our sword and takes down MW [13-3]
upgrade a sword to med inf for 30 gold
still can’t get on the mountain with the army and workers

IBT
Three: med inf -> aqueduct
Four: med inf -> pike
Five: pike -> market
Sumerians building some lookout for Copernicus

7) 410 AD
now some units are in the open
med inf defeats archer
anc cav defeats MW
anc cav defeats MW
elite sword defeats MW [17-3] All of these are in the grasslands making a futile attempt to get to our core
The mountain is still blocked – so our army, three med inf, one sword, four workers enter Iro territory

IBT
Pike defeat MW, anc cav defeat longbow – serves them right for attacking us on a hill [19-3]
Oooh – a single Iro archer lands in the west
Thebes: med inf -> pike
Tyendenaga: temple -> pike

8) 420 AD
med inf defeats archer, anc cav loses to spear, army moves south and make opening attack on Grand River winning [21-4]
the rest of the attack force moves in range, including two ancient cav dispatched from Four
IBT
Pike defeats attacking longbow, however Iro finishes our pike with a MW [22-5]
Six: pike -> market
Deer: pike -> med inf
We can build heroic epic. Greeks building workshop for Leo

9) 430 AD
Assault on Grand River
Med inf defeats spear, second med inf defeats spear, anc cav defeats another spear, second anc cav defeats elite warrior and the city is ours. I raze it. [26-5]
build Large&InCharge next to the city, move new slaves into the new city
I saved the game right on the spot

We have 76 units
Forbidden Palace due in 16, with three marketplaces under construction
Iroquois will give education for peace, but I think we can get that when there are just a few cities left

General Strategy discussion:

So far bobbabooey has done a good job moving us forward with the war. The Iroquois should be cut down to just one or two cities. Taking them out completely is also an option (take the Sistine city last since we won't be razing that). If they have horses it is imperative that we acquire them. If they are working a wonder maybe we will let them finish it for us. We will probably put a few more cities than they had in the territory that we are acquiring.
Our workers should start making improvements to the unimproved tiles far enough back from the fron line - maybe our new slave workers can do that. It is important to get these new cities up to their potential, as some of them are close to our capital and should be fairly good producers.
Try to maximize opportunities for elites to attack and generate another leader. Another army will be real handy.

The Incas are our main competition. We should get whatever we can from their adversaries to make sure they all have gunpowder. This will slow the Incan advance since their knights will be fighting muskets. This type of meddling will hopefully keep the Incas from running away with the continent.

We should keep up the 0% science gambit a while longer.

I see our cities are growing and we want to keep our citizens at work. In general our cities should be building marketplaces, aqueducts and now temples in between settlers and war units. We will probably build some cathedrals too when cities get up around size 9 or 10. In monarchy the cities (size 7 and up)should get 3 units for military police.

Strategically now is a good time to think about our next target. I think I prefer to go after Sumeria next since they are the next closest and the biggest. We should probably stop making per-turn trades with them so that we can start the war shortly after the Iroquois conquest is complete. To be safe with our trade rep we should temporarily stop making per-turn trades with the Zulu also until after the Sumer war starts.

War with the Sumerians will be harder. They have more cities and we have been selling them iron. They might have muskets. So to minimize casualties we will start building some trebuchets. Hopefully our border with them can be strategically set up so they have to cross the grassland to get to our cities. We will also use our superior diplomatic skills to pull the Zulu into the war so we don't have to fight them ourselves. Of course if the Zulu declare on us I am sure our Sumerian friends will join us...

If we acquire the horses we should temporarily disconnect our iron so we can build some 3-man chariots to use to get our golden age. Four or five should be enough - we can discuss this when we get that far.

Right now we are keeping up with monarchy so we can stay there a while longer. We may want to convert to republic. This is not decided yet, but monarchy avoids all the war weariness factor and the 2 gpt unit support cost of republic has dulled my enthusiasm for that government. Maybe communism when we can get it.

bobbabooey you can download CrpMapStat here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=52902)

continued......

IBT – Our MI is taken out by a longbowman near the iroquios capital. Longbowman takes out 1 of our spearmen. [25 - 6]. Did a Ctrl Shift M to show what commodities are on the map. The Zulu have Saltpeter and the Sumerians have Iron. Sumerians are building JS Bach's Cathedral.

9) 520 AD – Took out a Longbowman with swordsman [26 - 6]. Traded Gunpowder to France for 8 gold. Basically, I am giving it to them so they can fight off the Incas. Traded Gunpowder to China for 1 gpt plus 30 gold. China only has 6 cities left.

IBT – Longbowman took out our swordsman in a close battle. Longbowman attacked our AC and lost. [27 - 7]. Three produced a settler. Started production on a Trebuchet (6 turns). Deer produced MI. Start on Trebuchet (6 turns). Tyenenaga produced pikeman. Started on Musketman (15 turns).

10) 530 AD – Moved another worker to island. AC took out longbowman [28 - 7]. re-align units so we have proper mp in each city so we can avoid entertainers. Preparing a stack to attack the Iroquois capital.

IBT - Longbowman attempted to attack our AC. He was unsuccessful. [29 - 7]. Booey produced MI. Started on Trebuchet (15 turns). Bong produced an AC.

11) 540 AD - Loaded a settler in a galley to attempt to send to island if galley in the middle lasts.... AC attempted to take out spearman with settler underneath. AC retreated. Founded Nine North of Iroquois capital. Start on Musketman.

Zerksees is up next.
115663

pictures. the lurkers want more pictures. :bounce:

once u get communism, IMHO, u can do this as no research

540 AD Pre-flight:

Since we are still not ending on the even tens, I will play 11 turns this time.
Rename Tyendenaga to Pompeii - it is at the base of a volcano after all
Abydos has unimproved grassland tile, yet we are roading the mountain tile?
Change Abydos to settler
Notice that Niagra Falls has Sistine Chapel. We should keep this city when we take it.
Change Three and Pithom to settler
Our troops are all scattered about and not well defended. Our cities do not appear to be at any immediate risk but the troops are

IBT
Greece and China make peace
Iro longbow defeats unprotected med inf [0-1]
Galley lost in treacherous waters

Turn 1 - 550AD
China has 5 cities left, no saltpeter and no iron. I can't help them with their valiant effort against the evil Inca. They need Pizarro.
We are in fourth place in score with 788, and Inca lead with 1134, followed by Sumerians and Zulu
Now I have to clean up this train wreck of an army - start organizing the troops.
Med inf attacks spear in the woods [1-1], and the Iro settler gives us two slave workers (+2s).
Army takes down a longbow [2-1]
Upgrade a sword to med inf for 30 gold
We need that settler so the island take goes to the back burner
Change Abydos to med inf

IBT
Iroquois ready to give printing press and education for peace. Not yet Hiawatha as we need more cities
St. Regis: temple -> musket
Pithom: settler -> med inf
No attacks

Turn 2 - 560 AD
Attack force reforming: 5 med inf, 2 elite sword in woods south of Nine. Army defending Nine this turn. Planning to move on Salamanca.
Change Pompeii to temple (culture pressure up around 1%), change Booey and Cheese to settlers.
We do not start any attacks

IBT
Longbow falls to our pike in the woods [3-1]
Seven: med inf -> musket
Final Frontier: pike -> settler
Two longbows approach our attack force

Turn 3 - 570 AD
China hanging tough with 5 cities.
Army takes out a longbow losing 3 hit points, and elite med inf takes out other longbow [5-1]
Stack moves out from the woods under the army.
Change Deer to medieval infantry

IBT
Seven: Med inf -> musket
Inca finish Copernicus. We are tech backwards and cannot allow this to continue!

Turn 4 - 580 AD
Stack moves up alongside Salamanca: 2 anc cav, 6 med inf, 2 elite sword, 8/11 army and a pike following for backup

IBT
SoZ -> anc cav
Sumerians working on JS Bachs

Turn 5 - 590 AD
Ladies and gentlemen, let's get ready to RUMBLE!!!
Six medieval infantry attack spears and five lose [6-6]
Army defeats a spear, elite sword redlines but beats spear, vet anc cav beats spear, elite word defeats spear, another vet anc cav defeats spear [11-6].
We blow the trumpets and Salamanca falls. Egyptians in da house! The city is razed netting 10 workers and a trebuchet (+12s). Also found 6 gold pieces in the rubble.

Elite anc cav defeats a longbow and a leader is created! [12-6] Going to make another army of medieval infantry.

Change Booey to temple, change Abydos to settler
Moving settler near Salamanca
Now Hiawatha will give the two techs, 55 gold and Kahnawake for peace. Not yet though
Notice the Iroquois must not have horses, the Zulu have an extra they must have been buying.

IBT
No attacks. The Iroquois are out of gas
Four: market -> med inf

Turn 6 - 600 AD
Plan to move on Mauch Chunk. New Salamanca is formed and leader created to army there.
Vet anc cav takes spear and settler gaining use two more workers [13-6] (+14s)

IBT
Two: market -> lnogbow
Bong: aqueduct -> longbow
Deer: med inf -> settler
Abydos: settler -> market
Pompeii: temple -> musket

Turn 7 - 610 AD
Moving units around, one army and ancient cavs moving toward Mauch Chunk
No attacks

IBT
Our exploring galley sees a lot of Inca knights moving through Greece with a right of passage. Didn't I tell you they were evil?
Two longbows appear near New Salamanca
Gems: forbidden palace -> market

Turn 8 - 620 AD
Seven does not have enough units and is starving. Up lux to 10% to avoid this.
Change Seven to temple
Army defeats longbow on way to Mauch Chunk [14-6]
Units are in range for Mauch Chunk assault
Trebuchet hits longbow, the elite sword defeats him generating a third great leader! [15-6] I hesitate for a moment but decide this one is also going to be a medieval infantry army.

IBT
The Pentagon - our people want us to build the Pentagon
Six: market -> settler
Wines: pike -> settler

Turn 9 - 630 AD
Assault on Mauch Chunk:
3 spears fall to army attacks [18-6]
anc cav loses to spear, then second anc cav defeats last spear [19-7] and the city falls! Five more slave workers (+19s)
anc cav defeats a longbow in the open [20-7]

I really want Tonawanda, but Iro will not give it for peace. The army is going to need a turn or two to rest and regroup, then march through the jungle. This just will not work fast enough, and I want those free techs.

Make peace with Hiawatha collecting printing press, education, Kahnawake, 1 gold

Shaka has astronomy, Gilgamesh music theory, astronomy and banking, Iro music theory and astronomy. Inca have astonomy and banking, not printing press. China, Greece and France have no techs ahead of us.

Inca sell us banking for printing press and 135 gold
Shaka sells us astronomy for banking, 5 gold, 15 gpt (could have done 275 gold but want Shaka to have a reason to be nice to us)

Sold chivalry to China for 50 gold. They are so backward I'll take 50 gold for this optional tech. We have plenty more to bribe them with when the time comes.

Noticed Sumerians have democracy and navigation as well. Iroquois have navigation and music theory, but lack banking

Trade banking to Iroquois for navigation. I know it is an optional tech but now we can trade across the ocean!

Sell printing press to France for 20 gpt, 29 gold and world map
Sell printing press to Greece for 2 gpt, 50 gold and world map
Buy China's world map for 25 gold - should have made them throw it in for chivalry!

Set up embassies in Athens, Paries and Niagra Falls. Nothing noteworthy in any of them

Bottom line: spent our war effort and 68 gold, collected printing press, education, banking, astronomy, navigation, several world maps and 5 gpt.

Our science advisor is again pleased. "We are technologically advanced!" he proclaims.

We no longer need to explore as we have the whole map.

Start moving some units north to tackle the Sumerian city up there

IBT
ROP with Sumerians ends
Zulu want to trade world maps - no thanks
Iro's threaten, we leave
Thebes: heroic epic -> med inf
Five: market -> temple
SoZ -> ancient cav

Turn 10 - 640 AD
These musketmen are taking too long to build with our current infrastructure. I don't like our outer cities being defended by archers. I tried to sell the saltpeter but can't get much money for it. So I decide to temporarily disconnect our saltpeter so we can build some pikes.
Change Two, Seven, Pompeii and Alps to pikeman.
Upgrade three spears to pikes for 90 gold
Found zerksees at Mauch Chunk ruins

IBT
Joan warns about our galley - we apologize
Two: pike -> pike
Three: musket -> med inf
Four: med inf -> pike
Deer: settler -> pike
Seven: pike -> med inf
Cheese: settler -> pike
Booey: temple -> longbow
Alps: pike -> treb

Turn 11 - 650 AD
Found Da Bomb at ruins of Grand River

Try to buy military alliance against Sumeria with Zulu and Hiawatha. Neither will budge.

Declare war on Sumeria.

Get military alliance against Sumeria with Shaka giving iron and getting spices
Get military alliance against Sumeria with Hiawatha giving iron and collecting 20 gold
Sell Iroquois ivory for world map and 2 gpt. This will help them with happiness and build more units
Sign ROP with Iroquois sending one army south to pillage Sumerian saltpeter and iron resources

Sent two archers into Sumerian territory in the north and capture three workers (+22s)

The army and some ancient cav are in striking distance of Sumerians northern outpost. There is a musketman in there and who knows what else.

Commentary:

No matter what we did I felt that another war was needed. We are going to need to control our continent before we control the game, and the Zulu and Sumer have only been stockpiling units, gold and techs. I picked the Sumerians for several reasons. They are the biggest tech threat on our continent, and also the Zulu are more likely to stay at war with them after the 20 turns.

We have 41 slave workers by my count. This is good but I want more. As you can see there is a lot more to do in our newly conquered areas.

Since navigation is out it will not be long until the AI from our world meet those from the other world. We might be able to benefit selling communications before then. If you see boats from the new world, it is time to sell the communications for whatever you can get.

I got real lucky with two leaders - before heroic epic. Our next leader should be converted to an army and left empty. We will use it against the Inca, as our current armies are too large to go on caravels.

Eventually we are going to have to face the Inca, but I want to own our continent before we initiate combat with them.

Next 10 turns:

1) On the war front:
- Get up some units and take Zabalam. It should be razed, with a new city on the nearby hill
- Send army into Sumerian territory and pillage their saltpeter then horses
- Build up defenses by upgrading spears to pikes, and get at least one pike in each coastal city - particularly in the north.
- Build a couple trebuchets if possible to help with invading Sumerian muskets
- Do not expect a lot of Sumerian units to make it to our territory, but be prepared for them, and use the opportunity to try for more armies
- Next leader to create an army and leave it empty.
- I do not want heavy losses taking Sumerian cities. It would be OK if there were no attacks on their cities these 10 turns. If you go make sure our cities are defended well and we can take it without heavy losses. I would prefer to stack up units to take out the Iroquois after our ROP with them is over.
-If Kahnawake is about to fall, give it to China
2) What to build:
- Build some pikes, and some offensive units
- We need more cities. See pic for more city locations - red, pink, green, blue. There is a galley in Three to settle on that island where our workers are - and now galleys can safely cross the ocean.
- A smattering of other city improvements like markets, banks, aqueducts. Size 7 and larger cities can build temples if possible. Cites on the Iro border should finish their temples
3) Workers
- In the east they are irrigating plains to bring water and city growth to cities like St. Regis and Pompeii.
- Some workers should connect the gems near the Zulu city
4) There is no reason to give in to any demands at this time. If war is declared because of a refusal, please stop and consult with us because we might use it as an excuse to start a big war.

[Edit - Roster:

Lomax - up next
Tominator 2 - on deck
bobbabooey
zerksees ]

Zabalam is no longer
City is built on red dot
Will have cities on green dot next turn
Sent galley to blue dot, will settle in 2 – 3 turns
Armies in route to saltpeter, and horses,
Each outer coastal city now has at least 1 pike

The best offense unit I have seen from the Sumerians in the long archer, only minor probing attacks into IRO territory
Lost 1 MF and took 7 Sumerians
Now have 96 units started with 87

Thoughts
Should I switch from pikes and MF to trebuchets?
Should I continue to the Saltpeter and horse or turn back and position armies next to the IRO for the next war

I am quite pleased as the Zulu must be keeping the Sumerians busy - that and the great wonders they are building for us.

Since Sumerian response is so light I would consider having war with both Sumer and Iroquois - after our deal with Iroquois is up. We will just make sure our Zulu friends keep it up against Sumeria.

Let us build up for the final assault on Iroquois to be followed shortly after by a renewed round of attacks on Sumeria.

Build up 10-15 trebuchet, more medieval infantry and at least 5-6 settlers. If you want a few more pikes to defend cities that is fine too. Cities already building infrastructure should be allowed to finish except for emergencies.

I think the saltpeter and horses are fairly close. If they are not then we should pillage the saltpeter and surrounding tiles. Denying them musketman will expedite their demise.

When the Iroquois treaty is up we can take them down, then go all out against the Sumerians. Remember we will keep up raze and replace except for wonder cities and size 2-3 cities. We are going to need rails soon and we don't have enough workers for that yet.

Units Count started w/87 now 111
Build 3 cites
Sumerian offered peace but I rejected it
Win loss ratio (7-1)

Details later

Looking at the save I see Pachacuti has taken Greeks two largest cities already. We have no deals with him at the moment.

Should we start a war with him also?
We could sign a military alliance with France, and give them saltpeter. They are small now but would have a golden age shortly after they have some victories with their musketeers. Looking for opinions.

I think Pachacuti needs to be put in check or we are going to have a monster on our hands.

Should we start a war with him also?How many wars can we reasonably wage at once? IIRC, we're taking on the Iro by ourselves (although that's dormant right now, it'll probably flare up again before the end of my turn), and the Sumerians with the Zulus helping us. If we go after Pachacuti can we trust the other civs (the Zulu especially) not to pile on us? Could we win all three wars? What would our goals be?

Right now we are at peace with the Iroquois. They are a token civilization with the right to live until the peace treaty is over. We will finish them soon.

Right after them we will start a real assault on the Sumerians.

While we will have war with the Inca we will not actually be sending any units to attack them. We would be doing it strictly to bring France into the war against the Inca.

There are several goals. Goal number 1 is to own our continent. The Zulu are unwittingly making that easier for us. We will do that by taking down the Iroquois then the Sumerians then the Zulu.

Goal number 2 it to own the other continent. That will be a whole lot easier if the Inca do not own the whole thing. Pachacuti declared war on the Greeks and is well on his way to owning the whole continent. So if we sit back and let him chew up the other AI one by one he will be owning his continent before we own ours.

As far as the Zulu, they have a war already. If they declare war on us without making peace with the Sumerians then it is no too likely that any units will make it past the Sumerians. If they do make peace with the Sumerians we can switch sides right after our alliance with the Iroquois is up and align the Sumerians against the Zulu. I have faith in Shaka - he will stay against the Sumerians. If he makes peace we should buy him right back into the war.

OK looked at the save.

Impression:

We are looking pretty solid right now militarily. At a glance our defenses appear more than adequate right. Inca and Greece are at war. It is important to us that the Greeks hold on.
Sumerians now have more wonders we want to take.

lomax did you build anything besides war units? We do need a little more on the infrastructure side too.

Next 10 turns:

Tominator2 - up next
bobbabooey - on deck drafting own flight plan
zerksees - trade mongering and war mongering
lomax - built lots of war units

Build orders:
- Get up to 15 trebuchet, 15 medieval infantry, 6 settlers, a few muskets (We will add two med inf armies and some anc cav to this to make our stack of doom)
- Change Gems to build aqueduct then temple
- Change Thebes to build library then temple then bank
- When Deer and Six finish their current tasks start settlers and keep building them
- Build marketplaces, aqueducts and banks in some cities near Thebes once military is up to strength

War orders:
- Declare war on Inca immediately (step 1)
- Move elite units near front lines. Use them to take out any stray Sumerians that come through
- Migrate new war units towards Iroquois border
- Continue war with Sumerians – no peace for anything

Diplomatic orders:
- Get a military alliance with France against Pachacuti of the Inca (step 2). You may have to give them wines or education - that is fine. As soon as the saltpeter is hooked up give it to France. If you can get a luxury for it that is good, but let France keep their gold.
- If Zulu make peace with Sumeria, try to buy a new military alliance with them against Sumeria.

Domestic orders
- We are going to research again, put science up to 70% on chemistry
- Workers keep up on the improvements. Attach gems, saltpeter, and irrigate the plains around St. Regis. I will have more on this in a separate post
- Pillage the fortress near Final Frontier, and rebuild the tile
- Reconnect the saltpeter so we may give it to France

See the attached map. I have highlighted the areas that need work.

Priority 1 - in red - Need roads on saltpeter and gems

Priority 2 - in blue - irrigate these. A few need roads

Priority 3 - in yellow - put mines on these tiles

Priority 4 - in white - mine here (and road if needed)

Priority 5 - orange and purple. Orange need road and mine, purple need road and forest

Questions: Pink circle - why was this tile improved as no citizens can reach it? Should we put a city on the pink circle to take advantage of the food tiles in the grey circles?

I may have missed a few tiles because the city names are big and are covering them, but this should give you an idea what I see as far as worker tasks

highlights:
- at war with french against inca
- many nations at war with zulu
- our big stack is getting close to isin
- we haven't lost yet

concerns:
- the terrain around isin really slowed things down
- many nations are at war

what the hell i was thinking:
- i'd hoped to gather the stack-o-death(tm) in the marshes near isin, then take isin and start a sweep to the south
- it was a conservative plan, but it guarded our flank
- the trebs wouldn't go through the marsh :(
- some boats were called in, and some settlers built a road, but it took time
- the next commander should be in decent shape over there
- the med inf down south is freelance pillaging

the next few turns:
- isin should fall
- the trebs stuck behind the swamps should come into play
- we might trade tech with the french?

summary:

750ad
- workers go to red and blue spots
- war against inca
- alliance with france against inca (we gave wines)
- science to 70% on chemistry (losing 10gp/turn)
- Gems changed to aqueduct
- Thebes changed to temple
- army beats musketman in Lagash [1-0] (gets on mtn to rest)
- Nine: musket -> medinf
- Five: treb -> treb
- Busiris: pike -> pike
- bigger palace (we now have a nice porch)
- sum building shakespeare

760ad
- settlers continue
- units continue move south toward isin (to make stack-o-doom(tm))

770ad
- Two, Six, Seven: treb -> treb (i hope that's enough)
- anc cav beats archer [2-0]
- damn - trebs can't get through marsh to Isin

780ad
- Three: treb -> library
- Four: treb -> pike
- Abydos: pike -> pike
- Pompeii: pike -> pike
- anc cav beats archer [3-0]
- sent some workers down to clear marsh near isin
- Bong: SoZ anc cav
- Bong: settler -> settler
- Deer: treb -> med inf
- Booey: pike -> pike
- galley sent south to haul trebs around marshes


790ad
- workers keep working, units keep going south
- med inf beats longbow [4-0]
- med inf beats two more longbow [6-0]
- Thebes: lib -> bank
- Five: treb -> lib

800ad
- nothing much
- the French have some nice techs (will wait until saltpeter is ready)
- anc cav beats longbow [7-0]
- New Salamanca: temple -> marketplace
- Two: treb -> med inf

810ad
- still nothing much
- Four: pike -> pike
- Six: treb -> treb
- Busiris: pike -> barracks
- Abydos: pike -> pike
- Seven: treb -> library

820
- noose tightens around isin
- china and sumeria sign an alliance against zulu
- china decalres war on zulu
- Alps: treb -> treb
- Kahn: spear -> spear
- Da Bomb: treb -> med inf

830
- nothing much
- greece and china sign an alliance against zulu
- greece war against zulu
- iro and inca sign alliance against china
- iro war on china
- inca ask for peace (we say no)
- pike loses to longbow [7-1]
- SoZ -> anc cav
- Bong: settler -> settler
- zerksees: temple -> musketman
- Pithom: treb -> treb
- Deer: med inf -> med inf
- This Land: warrior -> temple

840
- treb land near isin (finally)
- med inf beats longbow [8-1]

Tominator2

From the writeup it looks good overall but we need the game save. Glad to see the wars are starting. Should slow the AI tech pace and help us with our mission.

We did not need to move on Isin but can't see how that would hurt anything.

doh! here's the saved file.

i think the sumerians are on the ropes, just hunkered down and hoping this will all pass over them. unfortunately, some other countries look like they want a piece of the sumerian pie. tha's why i went toward isin. well, that and hearing the lamentations of their women.

The Plan:
continue planned improvements with workers, continue building war units and infrastructure.
Lower the tech slider to 50% as in 1 turn, we will have chemistry
We need to get the Sumerian cities of Sumer and Umma so we can acquire 3 great wonders.
Since all of our units are close to Isin, assemble all units and start on Isin. Agade will be 2nd. May not be able to get a 3rd city but it will be tried. Raze and replace.

What are you going to research after chemistry?

What of the plan to lay waste to the Iroquois? Our trade deal should be ending soon. Since we have already centered on Isin we may as well finish that but then the Iroquois should be next - they should fall easily without the help of trebuchets. Take the wonder city last and keep it.

Do you have enough settlers to fill the gaps? I'm going to look at the save and update this post.

OK just looked at the save. What strikes me the most is there is no stack of doom. I think we have enough units it the stack part that is missing. What I wanted was 15 trebs, 15 med inf, a few muskets, and maybe some anc cav and an army or two in a stack ready to bust something up. Instead we are all spread out.

bobbabooey I would consolidate all the units in one place and get ready to move on Iroquois. The trade will end with them in 1 or 2 turns and I think we do not want to continue the peace. We may have to because we are all over the place. This means it is important to get our units out of Iroquois territory as soon as possible, as assemble into a stack somewhere.

I really don't think Isin is a good target now since I do not think we have enough firepower to take it down and it will take at least 4-5 turns to get it there. Put the units back on the boat and consolidate into a stack of doom. Then wreck down the Iroquois - take Niagra Falls last and keep it.

The Plan:
continue planned improvements with workers, continue building war units and infrastructure. Lower the tech slider as in 1 turn, we will have chemistry
We need to get the sumerian cities of Sumer and Umma so we can acquire 3 great wonders.

Gather all units and start on Isin. Agade will be 2nd. May not be able to get a 3rd city but it will be tried. Raze and replace.

Lower Tech slider at 50 as chemistry will be available next turn.

Ground rules: Don't let a city get under 2 when production worker / settler make sure no entertainers. produce medieval and Pikeman Build a couple more galleys and get a worker over to island with swampland. To get a set of workers over there, send an empty galley out 1 turn and if it survives, load galley 2 (galley in safe waters) with workers. Take galley to galley that survived. Switch workers to 2nd galley and take that galley over to safe waters. Result, no lost workers. Check Embassies to make sure they are set up in all civs. Keep a minimum of 200 gold. Make Wise tech trades.

Plan:

General rule of thumb: Grassland should contain mines and Plains should be irrigated.

Before turn: changed tech slider to 50%

IBT - Greeks requested an audience.
They want an alliance with us VS Zulu plus right of passage. We are still trading with them so we can't do that. We send the Greeks away.
Our Pikeman stands his ground against Sumerian longbowman [1 - 0].
Zulu asks us to leave their territory. I appologize.
We learn Chemistry. Begin Learning Metallurgy.
Moved Slider to 70% which the tech will be ready in 17 turns.
Two - MI > Start Aquaduct (10 turns).
Sumerians are building Shakespear's Theatre.

1) 850 AD – Our Army takes out 1 Musket in Isin [2 - 0].
Gave France Music Theory for Gems, Ivory and Banking.

IBT – Sumerians take out 1 of our pikeman [2 - 1].
We lost our supply of Spices.
Zulu offers to re-up the Alliance vs Sumerians, 73 gold, 14 gpt and spices for Iron.
Iroquois wish to re-up the alliance vs the Sumerians. I attempted to get a tech from them but the advisor doubt's they will accept the deal. We decline.
Gems produced Aqueduct > Bank (18 turns).
The french are producing JS Bach's Cathedral.

2) 860 AD – Our army takes out Sumerian longbowman [3 - 1].
Our Army takes out Musketman in Isin [4 - 1].

IBT – China and Sumeria signed a military alliance against us.
Our Pikeman stook his ground against a sumerian longbowman [5 - 1]. Hiawatha offers us 2 gpt for Ivory. We decline. War is eminent.
Three > Library > Aqueduct.
Six > Treb > Treb.
Iroquois and France building JS Bach's Cathedral.
Sumerians are building Shakespear's Theater.

3) 870 ad – try to strong arm Iro to give us Economics. He refuses. Create war next turn.
Our Army takes out sumerian longbowman [6 - 1]. AC takes out Sumerian longbowman. [7 - 1].

IBT – IRO asks for ROP. No Way!
Four > Musketman > Musketman.
Nine MI > Marketplace (25 turns). Sumerians are building JS Bach.

4) 880 AD – Bombard Isin.
Army took out Musketman in Isin [8 - 1].
Veteran AC takes out Musketman in Isin [9 - 1].
Army takes out last musketman in Isin [10-1]. Raze. More free workers! War declared on Iro.
Took 2 Iro workers.
AC took out IRO longbowman [11 - 1].

IBT - Greece and Sumeria Create military alliance against us.
Sumerians take out a pikeman and an AC.
Our pikeman holds it's ground.[12 - 3].
Zulu asks us to leave. We comply.
Five > Library > Musketman. Deer > MI > MI. Abydos > Musketman > Musketman. Sumerians building JS Bach.

5) 890 AD – Our Army took out Sumerian Longbowman. [13 - 3].

IBT - Sumeria Declared war on the French.
St Regis created Musketman > Busiris > Barracks > Musketman.
Our people love us. Expand the palace. We now have a 3rd floor.
Zulu building Shakespear theater. Inca and Sumeria have Metallurgy now.

6) 900 AD - Founded Orex at the site of the old Sumerian Isin. Start on Temple. AC took out Iro Spearman. Got promoted to elite. [14 - 3] Traded with the French alliance vs Sumerians plus Horses for iron and navigation.

IBT – Sumerians take out our pikeman. [14 - 4]. Bong produced Settler > war chariot. Booey created musketman> war chariot.

7) 910 AD – Sumerian caravel approaches Kahnawake. Rush Longbowman for 128 gold. We are approaching Niagra Falls.

IBT – Thebes produced Bank > Pentagon (27 turns). Six > Treb > treb. Pithom > Treb > Aqueduct. Kahnawake > Longbowman > Longbowman. Da Bomb MI > Marketplace.

8) 920 AD - AC takes out IRO longbowman [15 - 4]. Our Longbowman tried to take out Musketman on Kahnawake and lost. [15 - 5]. AC took out IRO Pikeman [16 - 5].

IBT – French wants to trade territory map for territory map. Sorry!
Inca's take our our spearman in Kahnawake along with the city [15 - 5]. Wines produced Settler > treb.
Seven > Library > Knight. Alps > Treb > Knight.
Pompei > Musketman > Knight.

9) 930 AD – AC takes out Spearman. [16 - 5] Gets promoted.
New Leader booey created. AC takes out iroquois pikeman in Niagra Falls. Becomes elite [17 - 5].
Ac takes out pikeman in Niagra Falls. [18 - 5].
MI loses to iro pikeman. [18 - 6].
AC takes out Iro pikeman becomes elite[19 - 6].
MI takes out last pikeman in Niagra falls and we take control of the sistine chapel [20 - 6].
We keep the city and liberate 51 gold.
Army takes out Sumerian Musketman [21 - 6].
MI takes out Sumerian Musketman [22 - 6].
Army takes out Sumerian City Agade. [23 - 6]. Raze it baby.
Army takes out Sumerian Longbowman [24 - 6].
Army takes out Sumerian Musketman [25 - 6].

IBT – Inca and France Signed Peace Treaty.
We successfully defended an Iro longbowman attack. [26 - 7].
Bong Created AC. Four produced Musketman > Bank. Deer > MI > Marketplace.

10) 940 AD – founded NO ZULU HA HA > Temple.
MI lost to Iro spearman. [26 - 8].
AC takes out Iro Longbowman. [27 - 8].
Army takes out Sum musketman. [28 - 8].

Took out a bunch of units and disposed and replaced 2 sumerian cities.
Took Iroquois Niagra falls. A new leader was born and going back to a barracks city to load a new army.
We have horses that we traded with France. We need to work on tech trading.

Zerksees is up next.

117063

Army takes out last musketman in Isin [10-1].woot! i hated that city.

Summary: Took out 22 units lost 2 units in battle. Niagara Falls culture flip back to Iroquois (cost us four units) right after peace. Formed decent SOD and it will be able to do some damage the next 10 turns. We are technologically advanced and into the industrial age. Golden age started. We own Leonardos and did some upgrades already.

Inca are huge and we need to get a foothold on their continent soon.

940 AD – pre-flight.
Change Thebes to knight – military academy is a waste at the moment.
Change New Salamanca from market to courthouse.
Change some other cities to war chariot and knight builds.
Change Six to settler
Micromanage Niagara Falls, change all citizens to taxmen to starve it down. The governor is off but he still resets all the citizens after one starves out

We are at war with many civs, but two of our enemies are small and weak, and the third can’t make it across the ocean so there is little to do here. Greece and China will not acknowledge our envoy.

IBT –
Two: aqueduct -> med inf
Booey: War chariot -> knight
The resistance in Niagara Falls has ended!

Turn 1: 950 AD
Tominator note that the turn you receive the game on is not turn 1, it is turn 0. I think when the battles are done lomax thinks his turn is over.

We should not have signed a MA with France vs. Sumeria as Gilgamesh is ready to sell techs cheap for peace.

Made peace with China
Sell them printing press for 89 gold and world map
Buy metallurgy from Shaka – give 3 gpt, ivory, 70 gold.

Change Abydos to bank and change Buhen to knight
Reset Niagara to starve

IBT –
Six: settler -> settler

Turn 2: 960 AD

Reset Niagara to starve
Army defeats spear, AC defeats spear, army defeats longbow and Tonawanda is a recent ruin [3-0] (4 workers gained?)
Army defeats spear and captures settler netting two more workers [5-0]

Clear the fortress near Final Frontier by pillaging the tile

IBT – Zulu warn as our army is in their new territory near Lagash – we are automatically moved.
Iro longbow defeated by fortified pike [6-0]
Thebes: knight -> temple
Five: knight -> knight
Da Bomb: war chariot -> temple

Turn 3: 970 AD
Made peace with Greece collecting 22 gold and 1 gpt
Sell metallurgy to France collecting 70 gold and 7 gpt
Found Cairo and Memphis in former Iroquois territory
Change Niagara to starve again
Spend 104 gold to rush temple in Niagara
Moving units to form a stack
Been moving anc cav out of Niagara – leave 3 musket and an archer

IBT –
Niagara: temple -> war chariot
Eight: Settler -> settler
(Throughout these turns I reassigned city builds without writing it all down)

Turn 4: 980 AD
Change Niagara to starve
Siege on second last Iro city on the continent:
Vet AC defeats pike, elite AC defeats spears, elite med inf defeats spear, and second elite AC defeats spear and the city falls. [10-0] 5 more slave workers.

Take a shot at the golden age. Redline a spear on a mountain with passing trebuchets, then attack with war chariot. If fails [10-1]
Elite AC then takes on the brave spear, and crushes it [11-1]

Elite sword defeats longbow in the open [12-1]

Make peace with Iroquois, collect physics, 18 gold and 4 gpt. We are missing theory of gravity and some optional techs

Start military tradition at 60%

IBT:
Iroquois and China make peace
Niagara is down to size 3 but the people depose our lead and pledge allegiance to the Iroquois! Argh. We’ll get them next time.

Two: med inf -> temple
Three: aqueduct -> knight

Turn 5: 990 AD
Reforming troop stack to move on Umma
Sell physics to France collecting economics and world map

IBT –
Zulu want our world map but have 0 to offer so we decline
Iro warn as our units are in the territory they gained back by the culture flip – we automatically leave

Turn 6: 1000 AD
Make peace and buy military tradition from Inca for 65 gpt and 150 gold
Peace alone would have cost about 60 gold
Trade with Zulu. Give military tradition + 18 gpt, get theory of gravity
Set science to 0%
Iroquois give 24 gpt and 80 gold for theory of gravity
No one else has anything worthwhile to collect

Change zerksees and New Salamanca to courthouse
Change wines and cheese to settler
Starting to form expedition to settle the New World. Plan to send a settler and a couple defenders

IBT –
Sumeria and Zulu make peace
Six: settler -> settler
Busiris: musket -> war chariot
Cheese: settler -> settler

Turn 7: 1010 AD
Elite AC defeats longbow [13-1]
Troops moving toward Umma

IBT –
Two: temple -> cavalry
Pithom: musket -> cavalry
Zulu finish JS Bachs for us
Lost a swordsman in the jungle to disease!

Turn 8: 1020 AD
Troops moving toward Umma
Take med inf w/army [14-1]
Take longbow with AC [15-1]
Found Elephantine and Jungle Baby

IBT –
Da Bomb: temple -> cavalry

Turn 9: 1030 AD
Nothing much


Turn 10: 1040 AD
Finally the trebuchets move up alongside Umma. My stack of doom is in two parts – the first part is the attacking units and they have been here for a couple turns. They are sitting on a mountain. The trebuchets and war chariot are on grassland across a river from the city and they are escorted by a med inf army.
Army defeats longbow [16-1]

IBT –
Thebes: cav -> cav
Gems: bank -> temple

Turn 11: 1050 AD
Game turn 220.
Siege on Umma
Trebuchets redline the muskets
Army defeats musket [17-1]
Elite med in loses to redline musket [17-2]
Elite AC defeats musket
Elite AC defeats musket
Vet med inf defeat musket [20-2]
Redline the remaining longbow, and bring in the war chariot
War chariot defeats the longbow, Umma falls, we control Leo’s and our golden age begins

Army defeats med inf [21-2]
Med inf defeats longbow [22-2]

Upgrade 6 pikes to musket for 270 gold

Buy magnetism from Pachacuti for wines, ivory and 32 gpt. I have some concern about feeding the beast, but seems a necessary evil for a while longer.
Sumerians got medicine for their free tech.
I contemplate gifting the Greeks forward to see what free tech we get but in the end I decide that will only speed the tech race as they will no doubt sell what they get. More on this later.

Next 10 turns:

War front:
- Take over all Sumerian cities on the continent. Keep Sumer (has Magellan’s Voyage) and raze/replace the rest.
- Take vacant army in Thebes and fill it with cavalry
- Concentrate on using elites to generate more leaders
- Leave an army outside Umma and Sumer to retake them as they flip back. You might even leave them empty and let them take the city. Each time you take it back the pop drops by one. A city cannot flip on the turn you take it, so when you take Sumer pile the units in to quell resistors the first turn, then move on leaving one or no defenders. Turn off governor and starve down the pop each turn. Three warriors coming for military police if you choose that route.
- 1000 gold allocated for upgrades of pikes, spears, knights, and trebs on the turns when we control Leos. DO NOT do the updates in Umma as I would hate to upgrade then lose the units to culture flip
- New leaders create cavalry armies

Trading:
- In 5 turns renew horses with France. Give them a tech or iron

New World:
See the map. Caravel en route to yellow dot. Land and build city there if Inca culture borders have not expanded yet.
Need a settler, boats and some cavalry to go to new world launching from St. Regis. Galleys on the way should get upgraded to galleons. These will be landing about 20 turns from now.

Domestic front:
zerksees complete courthouse then build aqueduct
New Salamanca complete courthouse then marketplace
Thebes – cathedral
Gems – temple -> cathedral -> palace (prebuild)
Let Six finish the granary then build settlers
Keep our settler inventory at 4.
Keep science at 60% as we are working on nationalism


The future:

We will collect medicine or steam power from Sumerians for peace.
We are going to research nationalism as it is very expensive to buy. I think we will go after communism next. We will have to pick up steam power, medicine and electricity along the way, then scientific method. With any luck our prebuild will be timed right and we can build theory of evolution and pick up replaceable parts and espionage.

We have to clean up the Sumerians, Iroquois and Zulu as quickly as possible. Whatever we do we need to get to the Inca before they get flight or we will be in trouble.

The more armies we have the easier it will be.


Roster:
lomax – up next, can hopefully submit a turnlog this time
tominator 2 – wrote a good turn log, moved on Isin, hopefully learned about the stack of doom
bobbabooey – wrote a good turn log, got a leader, took Niagara too fast
zerksees – started golden age, had to trade with Pachacuti, but made us tech advanced – again

:bump: :bump:

Note : Inca declare war on us - do you still want me to drop the city on the yellow dot ?


Unit Count :149

IBT
Offer Alexander his guesthouse for a ROP But He wouldn’t accept
Culture expanded
Bong-.Cavalry continue with Cavalry
Four -> Bank start on Cavalry
Zerksees completed courthouse, start on Aqueduct
Five completed cavalry started and another
Deer completed Musk, started Cavalry
Seven completed Aqueduct started Cavalry
FF completed Settler started marketplace
People admire Lomax and expanded the place (must be grateful that Z’s turns are up) with two additions

Turn1
Evac – Umma left Chariot
Knight took long bowman (2-0)
AC took Long Bowman (2-0)
Position workers
Move attacking unit into position


Ibt
Lost Umma and 49 gold (lost chariot (2-1)
France landing party near
STR – Cavalry st C
Gems temple st cathedral
Abydos bank st CV
Rocky Top Cv st CV

Turn 2
Start siege of Akshak
Army took Musk 3-1
Knight took Musk (4-1)
AC took Musk (5-1)
MI took Longbow man (6-1) to worker razed city got 79 gp

Army took Pike men in Umma (7-1)
Swordsman took MF (8-1) got Umma Back w 82 GP
Road to Bananas
Hurry a settler in Alex’ guest house for 28 gp (will give his house next turn) No sense in giving him a temple
Upgrade pike to musk

IBT
Summer pillage road
New Salamanca complete courthouse starts a marketplace
Three completes Cavalry starts another
Alex completes settler

Turn 3
Long bowman takes Musk now Elite (9-1)
AC takes Musk (10-1)
Upgrade pike to Musk

IBI
Incans Destroyed the Chinese
Inca and Sumerian have signed a military alliance against us
Inca are at work with us
Sumerian
Lost 2 MF in Counter attacks
Iroquois destroyed the Greeks
Thebes completes Cathedral start Cavalry
Two completes Cavalry starts another
Nine completes marketplace start musk
Boarder expands
Booety completes Cavalry starts another
Pompeii completes cavalry starts another
People are still happy with Lomax and builds another addition

Turn 4
Notmuch move forces to UR

IBT
Five produces cavalry starts another
Six completes Granary starts settler
Buhen completes cavalry starts another

Turn 5
Army takes musket 10-3
Army takes pike 11 –3
Army takes pike 12-3

Suggestion
Build Harbor on West cost

Do not drop a city on the yellow dot. It will get crushed.
I see we did not save Alexander in time - no biggie.

OK with putting harbor on west coast - in Pithom?

I'll look at the save.

Edit:

You might want to pillage the tiles around Sumerian capital to starve it down to size 12 to reduce their defense power while waiting for the armies to heal. Whatever you think will work.

Lets finish off our direct neighbors then go after Pachacuti. However we should probably get a military alliance with Zulu against Inca so the Inca can't get the Zulu against us. Pay them gpt or a luxury. We'll just push the Sumerians off our continent, then Iroquois then prepare for the assault on Zulu.

Put the new city to replace the Sumerian city at least one tile south of the ruins.

Unit Count :149

IBT
Offer Alexander his guesthouse for a ROP But He wouldn’t accept
Culture expanded
Bong-.Cavalry continue with Cavalry
Four -> Bank start on Cavalry
Zerksees completed courthouse, start on Aqueduct
Five completed cavalry started and another
Deer completed Musk, started Cavalry
Seven completed Aqueduct started Cavalry
FF completed Settler started marketplace
People admire Lomax and expanded the place (must be grateful that Z’s turns are up) with two additions

Turn1
Evac – Umma left Chariot
Knight took long bowman (2-0)
AC took Long Bowman (2-0)
Position workers
Move attacking unit into position


Ibt
Lost Umma and 49 gold (lost chariot (2-1)
France landing party near
STR – Cavalry st C
Gems temple st cathedral
Abydos bank st CV
Rocky Top Cv st CV

Turn 2
Start siege of Akshak
Army took Musk 3-1
Knight took Musk (4-1)
AC took Musk (5-1)
MI took Longbow man (6-1) to worker razed city got 79 gp

Army took Pike men in Umma (7-1)
Swordsman took MF (8-1) got Umma Back w 82 GP
Road to Bananas
Hurry a settler in Alex’ guest house for 28 gp (will give his house next turn) No sense in giving him a temple
Upgrade pike to musk

IBT
Summer pillage road
New Salamanca complete courthouse starts a marketplace
Three completes Cavalry starts another
Alex completes settler

Turn 3
Long bowman takes Musk now Elite (9-1)
AC takes Musk (10-1)
Upgrade pike to Musk

IBI
Incans Destroyed the Chinese
Inca and Sumerian have signed a military alliance against us
Inca are at work with us
Sumerian
Lost 2 MF in Counter attacks
Iroquois destroyed the Greeks
Thebes completes Cathedral start Cavalry
Two completes Cavalry starts another
Nine completes marketplace start musk
Boarder expands
Booety completes Cavalry starts another
Pompeii completes cavalry starts another
People are still happy with Lomax and builds another addition

Turn 4
Not much move forces to UR

IBT
Five produces cavalry starts another
Six completes Granary starts settler
Buhen completes cavalry starts another

Turn 5
Army takes musket 10-3
Army takes pike 11 –3
Army takes pike 12-3


IBT
Loss supply of Horses
Deal w France expires – will not give Horse w/Alliance vs. Sumerians but will take the straight alliance (will do)
Counter Attacks
MF Defeats MF (13-3
MF defeats longbow (13-3
MF takes MF (14-4

Four completes Cavalry start mf
Pithom completes Cavalry st Harbor
Cuzcp completes Smiths Trading Company



Turn 6
Army takes Pike
Cavalry takes Pie
Knight takes Muskets
AC takes Musk
Cavalry takes Musket
Take UR and 200 gp, Shakespeare Theater, and a canon (Raze it)
AC takes Longbow
Lost MI in attack on MI
MI takes MI

IBT
Thebes completes Cavalry
Bong completes Cavalry st Frigate
Gems completes Cathedral st pp
Dabomb completes Cavalry st MI

Turn 7
Founded Lomax
Founded Lomax II

IBT
Lost Cavalry in counter attack
Inca landing party (4 knights) a Ca
Abydos completes Cavalry st Frigate
Seven completes Cavalry St Mi

Turn 8
Lost cavalry against knight
Cavalry takes knight
Cavalry takes knight
Cavalry takes knight
Lost cavalry against knight
Cavalry takes knight (landing party done)

IBT
AC takes Knights
More Incas
Two completes cavalry st Musk
Three completes cavalry st Musk
Four completes MI st MI
N Zulu completes temple st MI
Five completes Cavalry St Musket man
Winde completes Settler st Frigate
Deer completes Cavalry st Muskets

Turn 9
They have Rifleman
Army takes rifleman
Army takes rifleman
Army takes Rifleman
Cavalry takes Long bowman
Sumer is ours along with Magellan’s Voyage and 270 gp

Inca’s
Cavalry takes a Crusaded
Lost Cavalry to Inca cavalry
Lost Archer to Longbow men
Take crusader
Take Cavalry
Take long bowman
Lost cavalry
Take long bowman
Take Cavalry
Take cavalry


IBT
Thebes completes Musket man
ST reg completes cavalry st cavalry
Busirs completes cavalry st another

Turn 10
Nothing Much
Started to position unit for move on Kish

Suggestions/Notes
A little confused Umma is still resisting (it didn’t flip back) I left 1 or two units in at the most sometimes none)
Nothing in Sumer
Repelled to Inca’s attacks, have stepping stone for the Inca’s campaign
Would like to upgrade the T to canons in sumer but concern about the flipping

Could you post some screenies for lurkers? ;)

The good:
We held off the Incan attacks – including 7 offensive units landing at once!We now control Magellan Voyage
The golden age continues

The bad:

Pachacuti is bigger than ever and has finally figured out how to land units
We do not have railways yet

The ugly:
Shaka is sitting around with nothing to do.

Next 10 turns:

Tominator2 you are next. Take a look at the save and let me know if you have any other concerns.

Try to get peace with Pachacuti, but we are not giving techs, large sums of gold or cities. Do not make peace if he has any of our cities. 400 gold or 20 gpt is our max.

Avoid making peace with Sumeria (this will ruin our trade rep as we have MA with France), and should continue working on taking their cities on our continent. Make no new per turn deals with the Zulu or the Iroquois.

Leave Cheese undefended when there are no Inca units in our land. This will be too tempting to Pachacuti and he will land units there. Keep 3-4 defenders one or two tiles from the city so they can move back in if units land and we cannot dispose of all of the invaders. Put a barracks in Deer so the units up there will heal faster. Make sure our counter-attacking forces are in striking range of Cheese (once they heal up). (lomax said Elephantine was open when they landed but I like Chees better since they can't land in a forest near Cheese)

Turn science up to 80% to finish nationalism. When there is one turn to go on nationalism see if you can reduce the slider and still finish in 1. Then start communism at 70%

Consolidate forces and take two remaining Sumerian cities on our continent. They should be razed and replaced. I would expect one to fall for sure and the second will depend on healing time and losses.

Keep one or two cheap units in Umma and Ur to try to quell the stinking resistance. Have some units right outside to retake if needed.

Workers can continue chopping down jungles and making improvements in the south.

Keep settler inventory at 4.

Some cities can work on infrastructure improvements (20-25% maybe) the rest on military.

If there are any spears or pikes out there send muskets to replace them and then send them to a barracks for upgrades, or to use as MP for the two wonder cities. Coastal cities should have 2 muskets except Cheese, where they will be nearby. Seems like you will be building some muskets.

General:

We need steam power so we can build railroads. This is second in priority after communism.

We are getting near the end of the deal-making with the AI, but we need to keep our rep intact for a while longer.

The AI will generally not accept cities in a trade deal. You have to give them away. There was some abuse of this in earlier versions and so that has been blocked

The AI will attack a damaged army - med inf army in the red or low yellow could be attacked.

Resisting cities:
Citizens will keep resisting unless there are units in the city to quell the resistance. Each resisting citizen counts double for the culture flip, and there is a chance that the units will quell resistors. So it is a good idea to have a couple units in there each turn (bombard units do not count).

Lastly - it is possible that those palace expansions were from zerksees bringing us up to technologically advanced

Roster:
tominator 2 – up next
bobbabooey – wrote a good turn log, got a leader, took Niagara too fast
zerksees – started golden age, had to trade with Pachacuti, but made us tech advanced – again
Lomax – wrote up turnlog, razed Shakepeare’s theatre, had a talk with Pachacuti’s forces, made lurkers want pix

highlights:
- peace with inca
- the people like me best (possibly because i am not the slavedriver zerksees is)
- we haven't lost yet

concerns:
- we lost Umma
- we need better ships

what the hell i was thinking:
- i'm an idiot. i never saw the huge stack of trebuchets near Kish. they were hidden under the city banner, and never came up during a turn. as a result Kish was lot tougher to take than expected. if you guys want to re-do the turn that's ok by me, but i won't be able to get back to things until monday or so. :blush:
- anyway, we're not far off schedule. Zerksees thought one city (maybe two) would fall, and Kish did

the next few turns:
- Erech and Umma should fall, and that should be it for the sumerians
- settlers are heading down to replace those cities
- we have plenty to rough up the iro

summary:

1150AD
- science to 80
- med inf loses to archer [0-1]
- turn down zulu ivory for 3gpt (per instructions)
- Bong: frigate -> frigate
- Zerksees: aqueduct -> musketman
- Alps: cav -> cav
- Da Bomb: med inf -> musket

1160AD
- inca blow us off
- army beats archer [1-1]
- sneaking up on Kish
- am confused by settler in Stepping Stone
- french drop in next to Kish, the bastards
- Eight: settler -> marketplace
- Four: med inf -> musket
- Cairo: temple -> musket
- Five: musket -> musket
- Six: settler -> library
- Pithom: harbor -> musket
- Abydos: frig -> frig
- Seven: med inf -> musket
- Pompeii: cav -> market
- people love me - we get new left wing :D

1170AD
- Cheese undefended
- settler joins Stepping Stone
- cav army beats rifle in Kish (and retreats - ouch) [2-1]
- stack-o-doom in place
- french attack Kish (win 1, lose 2, lose another in counterattack)
- Thebes: cav -> musket
- New Salamance: market -> musket
- Two: musket -> musket
- Three: musket -> musket
- Nine: musket -> barracks
- Cheese: settler -> library

1180AD
- bombardment of Kish starts
- anc cav beats longbow [3-1]
- iro want to extend peace - we accept
- get nationalism, start communism at 70

1190AD
- frigate loses to inca galleon north of Cheese [2-2]
- med inf loses to rifle [2-3]
- cav loses to rifle [2-4] (Kish is tough) :(
- cav beats rifle [3-4]
- hurry temple in Stepping Stone
- sumeria and france have peace treaty
- Bong: frig -> frig
- Booey: cav -> library
- RockyTop: cav -> cav
- Oryx: temple -> cannon
- Stepping Stone: temple -> harbor

1200AD
- our artillery sucks
- nothing much
- sums capture a settler outside Kish (doh) [3-5]
- Thebes: rifle -> cannon
- Five: rifle -> cannon
- Abydos: frig -> frig
- people love me, palace now has right wing :dance:

1210AD
- frigate bombards Tientsin in daring night mission
- artillery still sucks
- cav beats archer [4-5]
- stack-o-death gets bigger near Kish
- inca won't take Cheese
- we lost Umma
- Four: rifle -> cannon
- Deer: rifle -> library

1220AD
- 1 artillery hit
- we lose cav, med inf, musket to Umma [4-7]
- cav beat rifle in Kish [5-7]
- cav loses to rifle in Kish [5-8]
- cav beats rifle in Kish [6-8]
- cav army beats two rifle, one longbow [9-8]
- Kish taken, razed, on to Erech
- auto-bombard of Tientsin continues, head inca admiral loses face
- move a few units to get near Umma
- inca trade peace for 80 gold
- Thebes: cannon -> military academy
- Two: rifle -> bank
- Three: rifle -> privateer
- Nine: barracks -> rifle
- Five: cannon -> bank
- St Regis: cav -> privateer

1230AD
- nothing much
- Bong: frig -> library
- Zerksees: rifle -> market
- Buhen: cav -> rifle
- Da Bomb: rifle -> market

1240AD
- nothing much
- units move into position around Umma and Erech

Here is my assessment of what I probably should be doing.

The Plan:
Changed Privateers over to Frigates in St. Regis and Three.
re-organize the troops to take Umma back. We really should have kept 1 of our armies outside of the city so it would be easier to take back. Send the MI army back to UMMA and take it back (if I don't take it by the time the army gets back there). We have a nice stack travelling down to Erech. Once we get Erech and Umma back, propose peace to Sumerians for techs. They have Medicine.
Prepare a stack to start an attack on Zulu. Our stronger defensive units should be taken down to the cities that border Zulu cities. I feel comfortable with 5 defensive units in Oryx, No zulu ha ha and Cairo.
Fill in cities in the South East. The main attack on the Zulu should start from the East along with taking the city in our North.
Continue with learning Communism.
Starve Sumer down to 1.
I want railroad. As soon as someone gets steam power, attempt to trade communism for steam power and medicine (if we don't get it from Sumerians).
upgrade trebs to cannons (1000 gold)

Golden age continues.

1180AD
- bombardment of Kish starts
- anc cav beats longbow [3-1]
- iro want to extend peace - we accept
- get nationalism, start communism at 70

1190AD
- frigate loses to inca galleon north of Cheese [2-2]
- med inf loses to rifle [2-3]
- cav loses to rifle [2-4] (Kish is tough) :(

1210AD
- frigate bombards Tientsin in daring night mission
- artillery still sucks
- cav beats archer [4-5]

1220AD
- 1 artillery hit
- we lose cav, med inf, musket to Umma [4-7]
- cav beat rifle in Kish [5-7]


I think you lost count- and twice!:eek: Here's what you did: You go from 3-1 to 2-2, then when it says you lose three units in Umma, you only count two.
So you beat one more unit then you said and lost one more than you said (and actual total count would be [10-9]).

Don't worry- you're not the only one who makes mistakes like this. From reading this thread, I saw Bobbabooey and Lomax do it too. I think you guys need to pay more attention :crazyeye:

The settler at Stepping Stone was there to be used in the invasion of Inca’s hence the name Stepping Stone

The settler at Stepping Stone was there to be used in the invasion of Inca’s hence the name Stepping Stoneah. i thought the city was named Stepping Stone because it was a staging point for an invasion of the incas, and the settler was there to grow it quickly in prep.

Tominator2

The Good:
Made it out of the war with Inca for 80 gold
Avoided being attacked by the Zulu
Kish fell
Did not lose any trebs or armies

The Bad:
Lost Umma. The bad part is you had 3 turns to retake but did not
Lost track of large stack of trebuchets causing unnecessary unit losses
Lost two settlers. One by joining and one by bad protection.
Batting just over .500 vs. the AI.

Commentary on your turns:

Please do not build the military academy at this time. We may have to switch Gems to it if we can’t get to scientific method in time.

Settlers. I was glad to see that we have five in inventory. However, we never have enough. If there is a settler on an island and you are not sure what to do then ask. We have to replace all the Zulu, Sumerian and Iroquois cities. Use some of that college education and do the math before making a decision like that. Settlers cost 30 shields and two citizens. Think about the economy of this decision. We threw out 30 shields not to mention the time those two citizens could have been working tiles generating gold, food and shields to put them into that package. At the very least the settler could have been sent to the mainland.

Ships. There are no better ships to build now. Put the ships in stacks of at least three or four. Frigates can bombard without attacking, so use the first few to bombard enemy down to one hit point, then use the last to sink it. Put a couple privateers in the stack and let them do the actual attack, as they can enslave enemy ships and give us more privateers.

Next 10 turns:

bobbabooey you are next

- your plan looks good
- After Sumerian conquest is complete, upgrade our trebuchets to cannons. I will allocate 1000 gold for upgrades.
- Get to work on a culture building in one city near Umma and one near Ur so we can have easier access if they flip again
- A couple of privateers are OK as they can enslave enemy units. Be sure to bombard with frigates before attacking with privateers so we minimize losses
- Get muskets/rifles in our outer cities, move the spears and pikes in for upgrades. Archers should be brought up near the Sumer cities and used for military police.
- Put walls in towns on Zulu border
- Take care not to raze the Zulu town with JS Bachs cathedral in it. We want to keep that one too. Probably should take it last
- Prepare to find and take Zulu saltpeter or horses. I think there are two cities that have those items. If we can take them we can cut them off.
- If you can’t get the war started that is fine, just get the preparations in order.
- If you can’t get medicine for peace get as much gold as you can. I have a plan.
- Change Thebes to university. Abydos is stuck at 8, build a harbor there next.
- Looking for 3-1 kill ratios against Zulu and Sumerians

In case you have not noticed the tech pace has slowed considerably, as we are still only one tech behind. We may need to research our own tech more.
If the tech pace stays slow we will eat them alive. :hammer:

Gentlemen, let me ask a few questions and see if I can learn something or we can just disagree. Of course feel free to ignore my perspective.

So in the spirit of friendly exchange I ask these things.

1) why have builds of not so useful units in a town with 1 shield and no barracks? NO ZULU is the first place I looked at and I do not understand what is going on there.

Not only does it seem a waste to build MDI's, it will be a regular. You are currently running a deficit that can be cleared in this town alone.

The citizen on the forest I make a taxmen. You do not get any net shields from the forest anyway and now you get two more net gold. Switch to wealth and get another gold and now making 4gpt instead of 1.

Take the pop off one of the ivory tiles and make it a taxman and now you have net 5 gold, no deficit. No need to have this place grow. You are not going to put an aqua in there are you?

2) handling of workers at this stage of the game. Now this is not going to be unanimously agreed with, but I really dislike seeing lots of stacks of workers cutting jungle or making rails. It will take longer to get anyone tile done and nothing useful is available on that tile until it is finished.

Why not group enough workers to actually get the tile done in one turn? Now the tile is in production. I don't mind sending one or two workers to say a mountain back in the safe zone and let them build a road as it is not going to be needed or used right now. It is just to make access available in the event of say pollution.

3) research choice. I am dumbfounded by the selection of communism over Steam. Could someone set me straight on what the benefit of getting communism is right now?

Would it not be better to get steam? It does two huge things for you. First rails means defending is much easier. Second it leads to ToE.

A third item that is maybe not huge, but is quite large is the extra food and shields and commerce from rails. You can make towns specialist with rails, where there were not so good before as they could not make enough extra food.

4) Units not upgraded? You have lots of cash what is intended to be used for? I can live with AA units not getting upgrades, but Knights not becoming calvs makes no sense to me.

I also want to get those leader making units upgraded as they are not as useful otherwise.

Say that elite sword with the asteriks, is better as an MDI and later a guerilla.

4) A minor concern to me is the stack of workers outside of Umma that is not covered. The AI can grab them with any unit in the town. This may not be a big deal, but I do not want to lose workers just before steam.

In conjunction with the first question Cairo, I would switch to a worker and then stop making things there. You will need all the workers you can get to rail the land.

5) this is not a real question, but I wonder if someone could explain the need for privateers. I just never build them, they seem like a waste of shields. The AI treats them as yours if you go into its waters and attack.

I would prefer to hold off on making ships till the IA, except those that can be upgraded all the way to transports. Given that I would switch St Regis to an aqua.

Lomax II switch to a worker. No need for a barracks if you get to steam.

Busiris is a net 7 shield town, I would want to get it to a city and more production.

Wines is the last place I looked, but it is more of the same. Two net shields and making a 60 shield Frigate. I just do not see the value in spending 30 turns on regular units, especially those that cannot be upgraded.

I must say you guys are very brave dropping two towns next to two volcanoes. Hope it works for you. I still remember Aeson landing an invasion stack on or next to a volcano in an AU game at deity and losing them all to an eruption. Cured me of getting near them, if I can avoid it.

Anyway either this will be if use to you or of use to me, if you can give me some good reason to change my thinking. I love to learn, even if I am an old dog. Make that a very old dog. :D

Some other thoughts FWIIW:

Da Bomb switch to aqua.

Rails could allow so many units to be disbanded and save a ton of gold.

Never train people to use the govenor.

Cheese making a lib and has only one beaker?
Abydos to harbor.
Buhen to wealth and 1 taxmen.
Alps to wealth, no more troops in places without a barracks.
Final Frontier to harbor.
Pompeii is size 6 and cannot grow without an aqua. So why make a market? Either give it what it needs to grow or put it to specialist. I go with lib and then specialist.

RockyTop is a prime thing I would not like. It is making a calv and has no barracks and nets 9 shields. First get a barracks or stop making troops. Second get it to a divisiable number of shields to stop the over runs and save a turn. 10 shields makes this an 8 turn calv town with no waste.

Alex's guest house, why do anything there? Why even have it? Ok, it does mean not having to dust it later, but I doubt I would bother with it, unless this is a conquest only game.
Set to wealth. The dumb gov has the second pop as a joker. Set to tax man with no growth and get 3 gold every turn.

Oryx to wealth, two pop to taxmen.
Memphis to worker to not waste all of the shields.
Stepping Stone to wealth one taxmen.
Lomax to temple it has neighbors right now.

New salmanca to lib and then a barracks, if troops to be built.
Sumer to worker.

Two to lib.
Three to barracks.

Eight is another lession IMO. It nets two shields and is making a market. You net 1 gold and have three lux and it is going to be stuck at size 6, unless you take action. So why spend about 50 turns on a market?

Switch to worker and then wealth and as many specialist as I can.

Way to many regular units about. You can get away with MP's as regulars, but warriors work fine for that task. You can get away with some defenders to start as regs as they will likely promote to vets, but only a few are needed.

In the main I do not want to make any units as regulars after the expansion phase. I prefer to not even have many of them at that stage.

It is criminal to me to make attacks as regs, just giving away that hit point and makingn it take much longer to get an elite and hence a leader.

Anyway sorry to intrude on your game.

First I have to say that this is a training mission. Some of the issues you describe I would not have done myself. I find if I write too much that the more important details get missed. If I tell the trainees about micromanaging the builds at all cities then I dilute my message in other areas. Your points about micromanaging are valid. Your point about veteran units is valid. Several of your other points are valid. But at emperor you can afford to operate in a less than perfect mode and still win regularly. We are going for victory and learning, not a high score.

Next, look at the game. Yes we reek of inefficiency. Shields and gold are being wasted everywhere. We built cities in bad places. We kept a city at the base of a volcano and built another one at the base of another volcano. We built techs in the wrong order. We had workers improving tiles our cities can’t use. We irrigated grasslands in despotism then changed them to mines, and mined plains and then irrigated. We joined settlers to cities. We don’t have enough workers, and our current workers are being assigned tasks inefficiently. We sometimes build inefficient or low value improvements in our cities. What are we doing in monarchy? We will probably even bring artillery along when we land our invasion force against the Inca.

Yet we are still contending for a win. How is this possible? Have you read the entire thread closely?

If you have you may have noticed that we are using what I believe are solid trading and diplomacy to keep ourselves in the game. We are systematically using war to disable our enemy and expand our power base.

We have over 3000 gold. We are only one tech behind the leaders. Who cares if we are throwing away some potential gold every turn? We are saving time, since we don’t have to micromanage all those cities.

We are researching communism because it is an expensive tech to buy. Look at our core. There is a giant lake in it. I believe we need communism to gain efficiency in production and gold while being at war regularly. I would certainly be interested if you could prove that monarchy was better. I hope the AI is going to research steam power for us to buy or steal. If not, we will have it in 15 or 20 turns.

Our gold is to be used so we can research faster, or to buy or steal techs. Making sure all the units are upgraded is another detail of micro-management that is being missed. Read the logs. I have asked several times for units to be upgraded. The only reason knights are not upgraded is 1) I don’t know about them, 2) they are elite 3) we have been controlling Leo’s on and off and we don’t have it right now.

Privateers can enslave enemy ships and make more privateers. Put them with your frigates and use them to attack after redlining the enemy ships. I already wrote this in post 123. Ignore using them during peacetime.

Pompeii was Tyendenaga, taken from the Iroquois and kept to keep AI away (see post 79, and the instructions in the posts above that). I recommended Buhen be put there because I was looking at the zoom out map and did not see the volcano under the city banner for Alps. See the picture on post 94. In reality even if both volcanoes erupt next turn we’ll lose two cities, one temple and we’ll just replace them with new ones one tile further away.

In spite of our regular unit inefficiency we still have 4 armies.

Never train people to use the govenor.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. Please conceive for a moment that it is indeed possible to win with the governor on. Read post #21 for my comments about the governor. If you like micromanagement then by all means go ahead. If you are still not convinced then think of it as a variant, a much easier variant than say, always war.

My main point here is that there are many ways to succeed at the game of Civilization. My friendly advice is that you take that into consideration as you embark advice to our fellow Civfanatics.

Hey guys, while it's fun to watch zerksees argue with people like vmxa and Smart, I have a question- did anyone read post 120? :confused: If your wondering why I'm asking, it's because I thought that someone would comment on it- it's just as important as the MM issues (I think). ;)

Golden age continues.

Plan:

General rule of thumb: Grassland should contain mines and Plains should be irrigated.

make roads in mountains to Zulu and chop forest.
Keep inventory of 4 settlers.

Before turn: Upgraded 5 musketmen to riflemen for 60 gold each. Send 2 riflemen from Three to Gems. Send a rifleman from Elephantine to Booey. Switched Alps from Cavalry to Baracks so we have 1 up north East for upgrades if necessary. Send rifleman to No Zulu Ha Ha. Re-assigned many other stronger units to different border cities.

IBT - Sumerian Longbowman attacks MI. We win (1 - 0). Sumerians Drop a rifleman outside of Sumer. Four produced cannon. Start on Courthouse. Pithom produced Rifleman. Start on Frigate. Abydos creates Frigate. Start on Courthouse. Seven Produced Rifleman. Create Marketplace.

1) 1250 AD – Elite AC attacks Longbowman. Winner (2 - 0). Elite Cavalry attacks Rifleman in Umma. Winner (3 - 0). Elite AC attacks attacks Rifleman in Umma. Loser (3 - 1). Elite AC attacks rifleman in Umma. Winner. (4 - 1). Cavalry attacks conscript Rifleman in Umma. Winner (5 - 1). Knight attacks conscript rifleman in Umma. Retreats. Cavalry takes out Rifleman invader outside of Sumer. (6 - 1). The Rock Swordsman attacks Conscript Rifleman in Umma. Loses (6 - 2). MI attacks conscript rifleman in Umma. Winner. (7 - 2). Liberated 888 gold and took Leonardo's workshop. Now I realize I should have waited for my upgrades from the prior turn. My bad. Bring units in along with starving it down. Upgrade Pikeman to Rifleman for 75 gold. Upgrade 5 musketman to rifleman 30 gold each.

IBT – Our golden age has ended...... So say our analysts ...... New Salamanca produced Rifleman. Start on Bank.

2) 1255 AD – Create 3 tax collectors in Umma. Create 2 tax collectors in Sumer. Bombard Erech. Bombed Erech's units to redline. Veteran Cavalry attacks rifleman. Loser (6 - 3). Frigate takes out a privateer. (7 - 3). Upgrade Pikeman to Rifleman 75 gold. Upgrade Swordsman to MI for 15 gold. Switched No Zulu ha ha, Oryx and Cairo to walls. Cavalry attacks Rifleman (8 - 3). Cavalry attacks Rifleman becomes Veteran (9 - 3). MI attacks Rifleman. Loser (9 - 4). Army attacks Rifleman (10 - 4). Army attacks Erech and wins we liberate 1119 gold. (11 - 4). Raze the city and acquire 5 workers. Army attacks Rifleman and wins. (12 - 4). Proposed Peace to Sumerians for medicine and we give them 296 gold. Changed Bong from Library to settler. Changed New Salmanca from library to a settler. Changed Nine from Rifleman to settler. Changed Da Bomb from Marketplace to Aquaduct.

IBT – Zulu are upset we are in their territory. We will move until the trebs are upgraded to cannons. New Salamanca lost all productivity. Three created Privateer. Start on Bank. Bong Produced Settler. Start on Bank. Resistance in Umma ended. Cairo created walls. Start on Worker. Burisis created Cavalry. Start on Aquaduct. Alps produced Barracks. Start on Cannon. Pompei created marketplace. Start on Barracks.

3) 1260 ad – Move a cavalry to New Salamanca to help with MP. Changed Lomax to Temple and rush it for 60 gold as Iroquois culture was putting flip pressure on the city. Upgrade 5 Pikeman to rifleman for 75 gold. Upgrade 2 Musketman to Rifleman for 3 gold. Changed citizens in Sumer and Umma to tax collectors. Upgrade 2 trebs to cannons for 15 gold each. Founded Stern. Start on Temple. Upgrade 3 archers to longbowmen for 30 gold each.

IBT – Zulu warns again. We leave again. Lomax produced a temple. Start on Barracks. Order restored in New Salamanca. Nine produced Settler. Start on Bank. Six produced Library. Start on settler.

4) 1265 AD – Founded Grrr. Started Temple. Founded Fill in. Started temple. Switched Memphis to Barracks. Created tax collectors in Sumer and umma to continue to starve them down. Reduced tech slider to 60% which made communism 11 turns instead of 10.

IBT - Zulu warns again. We leave again. We get to expand the palace. Put in a left 2nd floor addition.

5) 1270 AD – upgrade archer to longbowman. Upgrade Galley to galleon for 30 gold. Created tax collectors in Sumer and umma to continue to starve them down.

IBT - Zulu warns again. We leave again. This is getting tiring. A settler is enroute so hopefully, I can get the armies with trebs out. St Regis created privateer. create settler. Zulu is sending a settler towards the east so this should push us to a good place to upgrade the trebs then the war starts. There are 2 horses and 2 saltpeter's that need to be cut off in Zulu territory.

6) 1275 AD - Created tax collectors in Sumer and umma to continue to starve them down.

IBT – Zulu warns again. We leave again. Zulu dropped a city so they will ask us to leave and we will be in the clear to upgrade. Four produced Courthouse. Start on Rifleman.

7) 1280 AD – Upgrade Musketman to Rifleman for 30 gold. Created tax collectors in Sumer and umma to continue to starve them down.

IBT – Zulu warns again. We gladly leave. New Salamance produces settler. Create another settler. Jungle baby created temple. Start on Settler. Rocky top creates Cavalry. Start on Settler. Elephantine creates cavalry. Start on Marketplace.

8) 1285 AD - Upgrade 23 trebs to cannon for 15 gold each. Created tax collectors in Sumer and umma to continue to starve them down. Align units to take out horses and saltpeter. Inca and Sumeria have Fascism.
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IBT – Six produced settler. Start on another settler. Pompeii produced Barracks. Create Rifleman.

9) 1290 AD – Created tax collectors in Sumer to continue to starve them down. Umma hit 1 so no more starvation needed. Founded Gary. Start on Barracks. Changed Stern and grrr to walls.

IBT – Zulu warns. We tell them prepare for war. Zulu takes out 3 of units along with some of our workers. We successfully defend once. (13 - 7). Pithom produces Frigate. Start on Marketplace. Deer produced Library. Start on Cavalry. Abydos creates courthouse. Start on Cavalry.

10) 1295 AD – Elite AC Just defeats Calvary. (14 - 7). Elite AC Defeats Knight (15 - 7). Army pillages saltpeter. We take back our workers. Switched citizens in Sumer to tax collectors. AC attacks redlined cavalry. Winner (16 - 7). Hurry walls in Oryx for 24 gold.

Summary: Wiped Sumerians off our continent. Created peace with them to receive Medicine. Performed a bunch of upgrades. Started war with the Zulu's. Still have to pillage 2 horses and 1 saltpeter. Starved down Sumer and Umma down to 1 now they can start building citizens. Let's wipe those stinkin' Zulu's off our continent.

Zerksees is up next.

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zerksees, of course you can win at emperor doing many different things. Some of them far below being optimal. That is why there are variants. Anyway I did not mean to cause any ruckus or cast any aspersions.

I just wanted to toss out some ideas to be used or not, whatever was good. So I am sorry to have interfered.

zerksees

I am not going to go over all the rsponses as that is not appropriate for me to inject myself to that extend, unless you ask for a response to a particular one.

"We are researching communism because it is an expensive tech to buy. Look at our core. There is a giant lake in it. I believe we need communism to gain efficiency in production and gold while being at war regularly. I would certainly be interested if you could prove that monarchy was better. I hope the AI is going to research steam power for us to buy or steal. If not, we will have it in 15 or 20 turns."

My only point about the choice of communism to research first was Steam is more valuable right then. Not that being in one form of government or another one was better. I did not mention that aspect, nor did I consider it.

Going for Communism after Steam or a few others is fine, not my choice, but fine. You won't be seeing Steam on your own in 15 turns. It will now that that long to get communism.

I'll take that as a no.:mad: If no one reads it, I'm just going to put the main idea here: you guys miscount the victory/loss total for your turnset. Speaking of which, Bobbabooey just did this (shown by asterisks):

Golden age continues.

1) 1250 AD – Elite AC attacks Longbowman. Winner (2 - 0). Elite Cavalry attacks Rifleman in Umma. Winner (3 - 0). Elite AC attacks attacks Rifleman in Umma. Loser (3 - 1). Elite AC attacks rifleman in Umma. Winner. (4 - 1). Cavalry attacks conscript Rifleman in Umma. Winner (5 - 1). Knight attacks conscript rifleman in Umma. Retreats. Cavalry takes out Rifleman invader outside of Sumer. (6 - 1). The Rock Swordsman attacks Conscript Rifleman in Umma. Loses (6 - 2). MI attacks conscript rifleman in Umma. Winner.
(7 - 2)*. Liberated 888 gold and took Leonardo's workshop. Now I realize I should have waited for my upgrades from the prior turn. My bad. Bring units in along with starving it down. Upgrade Pikeman to Rifleman for 75 gold. Upgrade 5 musketman to rifleman 30 gold each.

IBT – Our golden age has ended...... So say our analysts ...... New Salamanca produced Rifleman. Start on Bank.

2) 1255 AD – Create 3 tax collectors in Umma. Create 2 tax collectors in Sumer. Bombard Erech. Bombed Erech's units to redline. Veteran Cavalry attacks rifleman. Loser (6 - 3)*.

choxorn - your point was well made in your first post. I did not feel any additional comment was needed.

While I would like the counts to be correct, missing one or two here or there isn't really going to have a significant effect on the game outcome IMO. It is just a tool to help gauge the overall attacking efficiency of each turnset.

Okay, I'll stop pointing out these somewhat obvious mistakes. I was just wondering if anyone had noticed. I also wonder why vmxa and Smart can't stop bugging you about micromanagement and using the governor when you've already made your point about it. ;) BTW, do you think I'm overusing these smilies? Oh, and I also wonder why I'm the first person to point this out, but that's all, really.

On the succession game, here is the status midway through turn 9:

Added two more cavarly armies, we are communist and we got a big boost in gold due to lower unit support costs if nothing else, steam power in 6, took out 47 Zulu units losing 9, got a bunch of new slave workers, a free cannon, and our privateers took a Zulu galleon and turned it into a privateer. Zulu have lost 7 cities including their capital - I think they have 7 or 8 to go.

Getting communism provided a big boost to the economy. Not only is it a better government, but I sold it to Inca for over 200 gpt, and to the Sumerians for like 100 gpt. We have over 5000 gold and are running a 200 gold surplus per turn with science at 100%.

I'll take that as a no.:mad: If no one reads it, I'm just going to put the main idea here: you guys miscount the victory/loss total for your turnset. Speaking of which, Bobbabooey just did this (shown by asterisks):

Thanks for pointing these out. I try to shave off a couple of our wins so I don't look too good. When you play 10 turns and it takes 4 hours or so, sometimes a bit gets missed.

i'll take a shot at vmxa's questions, as he posted after my turn and some of my moves have proved perplexing (especially to my own side). as a preface, i will note that i'm a mild-mannered builder-type who likes to fight just enough to stay on top of the heap. that means i generally play at the lower difficulty levels, and that's fine by me. this emperor stuff is new. now, the questions:

1) NO ZULU - basically just a placeholder build. i like to get all y towns as big as i can get them, so it was just building something while it grew. i'd never thought of what you suggested, but it's definitely a good idea.

2) there are times when a part of a stack of workers finishes something before the rest of the stack get a shot at it. i move the rest of the stack to somewhere else and start them there rather than conserve the stack.

3) zerksees's call (and it seems to have worked out)

4) simply too lazy to do the management.

4) HE USED 4 TWICE!!!!!!! GET HIM, choxorn!!!!!! :spank:

4b) doh! my bad. didn't expect to lose the city for more than one turn.

5) i like privateers. i didn't know the ai felt that way about them. privateers are good because: they're a relatively cheap way to lift the fog of war around the coast and they can intercept enemy transports without requiring a declaration of war. if we could starve the incas of transports we could ensure that we'd be fighting on their land. this would be good.

i appreciate the analysis. i have a much better understanding of what goes on in this style of game now.

Well, at least my post has been acknowledged :) That's why I posted the same idea twice- no one seemed to notice I did it the first time. And like I said, now that you know, I'm going to stop pointing it out. I'm still going to notice them, though. But like zerksees said, being one or two off is no problemo. Being say, five off, though, would be a problem.

4) simply too lazy to do the management.

4) HE USED 4 TWICE!!!!!!! GET HIM, choxorn!!!!!! :spank:

4b) doh! my bad. didn't expect to lose the city for more than one turn.



:rolleyes: Ha-ha. I told you, I don't really care about these mistakes. I notice them, but I don't really care. But I can see that none of you are all that great with numbers :scan: Note: the scan smilie is supposed to be funny.

Summary:

Shaka on the rocks - lost 8 cities only has 7 left
Communism looking good, and made a lot of money selling it
Got two leaders in one turn almost back to back so we have 6 armies now
Upgraded many units
Overall battle results are 56-10

Turn 0: 1295 AD - pre-flight

Change city builds as follows:

Abydos to harbor. With harbor will grow and create more gold
Booey to courthouse
Cheese to courthouse
Deer to harbor
Lomax brom barracks to cannon
Lomax II to market
Memphis to market - will benefit with communism
New Salamanca to cavalry
No Zulu Ha Ha to barracks (may need them on Zulu front line)
Thebes to university costing 13 shields - I asked for this to be changed last time
Sumer to temple for reduced flip risk
Umma to temple for reduced flip risk

Up science to 70% to get communism in 4

Upgrades:
Call in galley from Stepping Stone for upgrade (toward harbor in Pithom)
Pikes in Abydos and Alps upgraded to riflemen 150 gold


Notice we have no units in place to take on Umtata.
Take out Zulu longbow that is on our gems up there [1-0]
Move some units to protect cannons
We have no good defenders in Grrr on the border
We have workers in harms way. Move them back and put units to defend. Knowing the Zulu have cavalry there should be no units within 3 tiles of the border other than defenders in cities

IBT -
Lost rifle to cav
Lost AC to cav
Rifle defeats cav [2-2]
Missed a stack of workers north of Oryx, and the Zulu took and scuttled them
Thebes: univ -> cav
St. Regis: settler -> cav
Oryx: walls -> market

Turn 1: 1300 AD
Assault on Lagash:
Cannon volley
Knight defeats redlined riflemen
Regular cav loses to redlined rifle
Elite cav loses to redlined rifle
Army defeats redline rifle
Vet cav defeats 2/4 cav
Reg cav defeats 2/4 cav
Lagash is razed Got 4 workers I think
Fight off intruders:
Army defeats two muskets
Vet cav loses to 3/4 cav
Army defeats cav on a hill
Elite AC defeats cav
Cav defeat redlined cav
Knight defeats the redlined working killing cav near Oryx [12-5]

Pillage Zulu saltpeter with the rifleman - Zulu now out of saltpeter
Cav army on Zulu horses in the south. We took a couple workers there and scuttled them ourselves

Starting to move on Umtata

IBT -
Lose a redlined cav
A cav successfully defends against a Zulu cav attack [13-6]
New Salamance riots. Turn on the governor
Four: Rifle -> Library
Cairo: worker -> aqueduct
Sign ROP with France, sell medicine, get democracy and 47 gold (no one else can sell it to them, and our ships were in their waters)

Turn 2: 1305 AD
Fighting off intruders:
Elite AC defeats musket and a new leader is born! Convert to army immediately and fill with cavalry
MI army defeats knight
Elite longbow defeats musket
Elite AC defeats longbow and another leader is born! Convert to army immediately and fill with cavalry. Had to scratch around to find enough to fill it. Zulu wars just got a lot easier
Cav army defeats 2 cavs

Assault on Umtata:
Our frigates are wicked, as three in a row hit and redline the two rifles there
Vet cav defeats rifle promoting to elite
Reg cav defeats rifle promoting to veteran
Umtata is now ours. Since it is size 1 and far from Zululand I keep it. Two workers were inside.

Upgrade knight to cav for 15 gold, musket to rifle for 30 gold
Lone cav army in south defeats musketman in Umfolozi [21-6]

On F11 we are #2 to Inca in all important categories. Inca is in a democracy

IBT-
No attacks
Zulu galleon appears off east coast
Two: bank -> library
Five: Bank -> univ
Booey: court -> rifle


Turn 3: 1310 AD
Elite AC defeat longbow
Took Zulu cav outside Stern (with AC?)
Lone cav army in south defeats musketman and razes Umfolozi. Army down to 4 hit points but fortified in ruins of Umfolozi [24-6]
Upgrade a pike and musket to rifle, and a knight to a cav for 120 gold
Train some cannons on Zulu galleon and redline it
Cut science to 60% - communism in 1 turn
Put our second rifleman on their last horses

Founded Bad-Tibira Road and Too Close

IBT -
Zulu land a cav near Lomax II. I should let them take it, the people love Lomax so much let him help them
Zulu are upset we took Umfolozi, and attack our weak army. It fights off attacks from cavalry and a longbow
They also knock our rifleman off the horses with a longbow, after he bravely defeated a Zulu cavalry [27-7]
We have learned the secrets of communism, shall we encourage a revolution?

Yes, we are descending into anarchy!

Turn 4: 1315 AD
Anarchy. Nothing to do but watch the cities burning.
Decide to test the market for communism
Pachacuti gives us incense, 11 gold and 205 gpt for communism
Gilgamesh may be a one-city challenge but he coughs up 1414 gold and 71 gpt for communism.
So we are +278 gold while we are in anarchy, and we cleared the world market of extra gpt and gold

Send a privateer against the Zulu galleon and it successfully enslaves it get promoted to elite, and we have a new privateer.

Clean up the Zulu cav near Lomax II with a vet cav
Reg cav defeats red line cav

Assault on Bad-tibira:
Cannon fire
Two med inf armies disposes of three redline rifles and the city falls - six more slaves

Shiny new cav army defeats a musket in Ibabanago and we keep it. [34-7]

Send another cav army south to protect our injured cav army, which comes north and links up with the healthy army

Upgrade caravel to galleon for 15 gold

IBT -
Lose a rifle in Oryx to Zulu cav [34-8]
Our commune is formed

Turn 5: 1320 AD
Up science to 100%, steam power in 10, running 200+ gold surplus even at 100% science
Take a look at the shield coming out of far away cities now
Also look at F3 - our unit support count went to zero gold per turn
Found Ngome Road - preparing to take Ngome in 2 turns

AC defeats the cav outside Oryx [35-8]

Upgrade two musket to rifle for 60 gold
Upgrade galley to galleon for 30 gold

IBT -
Lose another fortified rifle to cav [35-9]
zerksees: market -> rifle
Six: settler -> settler
Rocky Top: settler -> cannon

Turn 6: 1325 AD
France is accumulating gold. I don't like it. Sell them saltpeter for 70 gold and 18 gpt
Elite AC defeats cav [36-9]
Workers busy improving things.

IBT -
No attacks
Alps: cannon -> harbor

Turn 7: 1330 AD
Assault on Ngome:
Cannon barrage
Vet cav defeats rifle
Amry defeats 2 rifles and Ngome is razed. [39-9] 6 more workers

IBT -
No attacks
Thebes: cav -> cav

Turn 8: 1335 AD
Elite longbow defeat longbow
Elite AC defeat longbow
Med inf army attacks regular musket on a hill. Army wins with 2 hit points left [42-9]
Upgrade a musket to rifle
Found Zimbabwe Road, units moving into position for the siege

IBT -
Cav loses to our rifle [43-9] I am curious where this cavalry came from
Abydos: harbor -> library
Buhen: rifle -> settler

Turn 9: 1340 AD
Assault on Zimbabwe:
Unload all the cannons
Army defeats a cav and two redline rifles
Vet cav defeats redline rifle
Med inf army takes a redline rifle and walks into the city
We raze the city and its lovely Oracle, getting 5 workers and a free cannon

Send two cav armies to Hlobane, and each takes out a rifle [51-9]

Upgrade a musket to rifle

Turn off governor in Gems, micro manage citizens to complete palace in 52 turns (it was 75+ turns before). Since there is no harbor the next citizen would have been working the sea also not generating shields, which we need to build theory of evolution here (palace is prebuild for theory of evolution). This is one time I think it worthwhile to micromanage the citizens of a city.

We are down to four settlers - change some cities to build settlers

IBT -
2 cavs attack our rifles and fail
another cav defeats one of our rifles [53-10]

Turn 10: 1345 AD
Zulu must be getting saltpeter from the Inca. Argh
Get military alliance with Inca vs. Zulu giving them ivory. Inca declare war on the Zulu, and their saltpeter supply is cut off! :p
Founded Kahun

Two elite ACs each defeat a cav

Take Hlobane defeating a rifle. [56-10] Keep it because I want JS Bachs

Revisit the cities again, change production as follows:
Eight to aqueduct
No Zulu Ha Ha to rifleman

Next 10:

lomax you are next.

Take your time - turns are taking at least a half an hour for me, so it is not a problem if you need 3 or 4 days to finish it. If you prefer to play less than 10 that is fine also.

Keep in mind you cannot cash rush improvements in communism.

Keep science at 100%, finish steam, start electricity then sci. method. Please don't blow our gold on upgrades as we will need it to run a deficit on tech (will want to keep 5000 on hand). Our tech buying days are about over.

Whack the Zulu off our continent.
Then start on toward the Iroquois (not likely in 10 turns)

We need more frigates (10), a few privateers and galleons (10-15). Migrate galleons towards Lomax. We need more cannons (30) and also more cavalry and riflemen.

Once steam power is done, building RR skeleton is top priority. See pic for road map of skeleton. After that, connect the rest of the cities to the skeleton.

No trade deals with Iroquois
Please consult if you want to trade with the Inca. We don't want to steal techs from them either as they are paying us 205 gpt, so we will wait.

We have a lot of room for more units before we have to pay gpt support so we might as well build them. Fitting a few markets/aqueducts etc might be good.

Now I see a strategic value to pentagon (4 units in an army). Lets build it in Thebes, or somewhere it will be done in 30 turns or so.

Longer Term:

Inca have Smiths Trading Company, Sun Tzu and the Pyramids in Cuzco. We are going to raze that city first. Wrecking cities in their core will help expedite their downfall. I have a solid plan out of my Sid playbook to achieve this goal.

Frigates and privateers are to be divided between east and west sides of our continent. Those on the west will monitor and harass enemy ships, and those on the east will be escorting our galleons.

Other:
vmxa -

Looks like your posts have been helpful for the team. This is a good thing.

Now that you have read this, do you still think steam power would have been better than communism? It might be worth playing it forward from some prior save to see if going for steam power would have been better. The AI's had steam power one or two turns after we finished communism. And they paid ridiculous premiums to get a govt tech they probably will not use. I wonder if the resale value of steam power would have been as good and would be curious to know if building rails could offset the gain in gpt due to reduced cost of unit support in communism.

Summary:

Turn 1: 1300 AD
Assault on Lagash:
Cannon volley
Knight defeats redlined riflemen
Regular cav loses to redlined rifle
Elite cav loses to redlined rifle
Army defeats redline rifle
Vet cav defeats 2/4 cav
Reg cav defeats 2/4 cav [12-5]
Lagash is razed Got 4 workers I think
Fight off intruders:
Army defeats two muskets
Vet cav loses to 3/4 cav
Army defeats cav on a hill
Elite AC defeats cav
Cav defeat redlined cav
Knight defeats the redlined working killing cav near Oryx [12-5]

Longer Term:

Inca have Smiths Trading Company, Sun Tzu and the Pyramids in Cuzco. We are going to raze that city first. Wrecking cities in their core will help expedite their downfall. I have a solid plan out of my Sid playbook to achieve this goal.



Hey zerksees- you have the wrong number! :lol: The first [12-5] should have been [6-4]! Oh, and, by the way, you said to RAZE a city that has three never-expiring great wonders????? :eek: :eek: :eek: Why?? :confused: If you capture it, you'll get a barracks and granary on every city on that continent, not to mention free maintence for trading related buildings!! True, if you raze it, you'll get slave workers, and you'll start to wreck their core, but the city is a lot better than that! You should capture it!!

Oh, and, by the way, you said to RAZE a city that has three never-expiring great wonders????? :eek: :eek: :eek: Why?? :confused: If you capture it, you'll get a barracks and granary on every city on that continent, not to mention free maintence for trading related buildings!! True, if you raze it, you'll get slave workers, and you'll start to wreck their core, but the city is a lot better than that! You should capture it!!
This is a good question, but I wonder why not? :mischief:

That city will be under immense cultural pressure to flip back, not to mention giving the Inca a city to target with all their cavalry. I would much rather see all their cavalry and other free units in my funnel of doom (FOD concept courtesy SirPleb). Furthermore, I won't be able to rush anything in Cuzco because it will be full of resistance. No, I would rather make good and sure they can't get it back. My goal here is to deny them those wonders, not try to benefit from them. We won't need any of those wonders to win the game. All my units near Cuzco will be safe because the AI won't attack my healthy defending armies. If I put the units in a city they will attack with everything they have. So it has to go buhuhuhuwahahaha :groucho:

In communism I suppose you could make a case for keeping them as there will be productive cities there, and of course the extra free gold.

But if I take their capital early in the war it will be much worse for them, as all those wonders, and every other conceivable improvement there will be lying in rubble. After their initial surge of units has been wiped out, we will wreck the other cities in the core too. It should make the war go much faster. One at a time the cities will fall while most of their army is chasing bait.


BTW I corrected my counting error, and please let it go already.

You actually have a good point. I didn't think about that, probably because culture flipping almost always works in my favor for me, but that's just because I have a tendency to focus more on cultural improvements, at least in the early game (I'm also on cheiftain difficulty). So in other words, it wouldn't hurt to raze it, even though these cool great wonders disappear. However, it would still be a nice city to have, and culture flipping chances would be reduced if you used all those units to capture some other cities first, any that are on the way to Cuzco. Also, I didn't know about all those cavalry you say the Inca have. It would take a lot of rifleman to defend the city from them. But you do have some armies, and might be able to recapture the city with enough units. If it ends up resulting in you guys and the Inca fighting over the city, try to use it a diversion to get some other nice cities they have :D. So my point is, capture it if you think you can keep it, if you think you can recapture it quickly, or you think you can use it as a diversion to get other good cities (and then get Cuzco). Just capture some far-flung cities too, or the rank corruption exploit will make these cities better (that is if it still works on the patch your playing on). Well, that's all. Oh and BTW zerk, I only pointed out your number mistake because I thought it was kind of funny.

I only pointed out your number mistake because I thought it was kind of funny.
Well I guess my sense of humor must be pretty bad then. I should probably take things a little less serious :crazyeye:

chieftain level? I think if you examine what we are doing here and read up in the war academy you should be able to move up a level or two.

chieftain level? I think if you examine what we are doing here and read up in the war academy you should be able to move up a level or two.

I just don't play very much. I would like to, but never have enough time to. I believe that I've played all 9 main conquests once, all 3 intro conquests once, and 8 normal games, for 20 total, all on chieftain. I've also lost more than half of those games :( My most frequent reason for losing the games I play is not being able to out-expand the AI (maybe I spend too much time on culture), ending up in a war for some reason or another, and getting crushed under the AI dogpile. In other words, I become a weak, small civ that becomes a rogue state and gets conquered. Hopefully I can get to warlord fairly soon, but my games frequently look grim (maybe I didn't listen to the war academy well enough). Oh and BTW, The number issue is funny to me because of how far off you were at that time.

Or maybe it's declaring war but forgetting to look at the military advisor first.
I don't know. Also, I'll simplify my strategy above: try capturing it the first time, especially if you can recapture it fairly quickly. Trust me, Cavalry suck at defense. I once lost one to an attacking Longbow! Also, culture flipping chances will be reduced if the Inca have less culture, which you can do by targeting a few other cities first. If you can't maintain control of the city, use more of your units to go after more Inca cities, then raze it if you still think you can't keep it. I hope this will work for you.

"Now that you have read this, do you still think steam power would have been better than communism? It might be worth playing it forward from some prior save to see if going for steam power would have been better. The AI's had steam power one or two turns after we finished communism. And they paid ridiculous premiums to get a govt tech they probably will not use. I wonder if the resale value of steam power would have been as good and would be curious to know if building rails could offset the gain in gpt due to reduced cost of unit support in communism."

Yes Steam was better. It is not even a question of economy, but it is better there as well. The real benefit is that you are now impervious to attacks and landings.

The AI paid you your money back. When I played those turns it has no money and won't. The Sumerians had a bunch left and I suspect they got it from you in the first place. About 2k of the 4K (appx) they had when I picked up the start form 1050AD. I took 1500 in one grab and 888 in annother, that I can recall and then a trade for 700 more.

An empire of that size should not have had so much cash.

1050AD is the first place I could find before Communism was chosen. The AI has no money as the Inca are keep at war with me and I am not feeding them gold and lux. They can do nothing to me for the rest of the game.

Starting with 1050AD.

Really do not understand how one has to give so much gold and two lux for peace, but I declare war to put a stop to that nonsense.

I start the PRE with 2403 gold and -65 gpt, researching Nat at 16 turns.
Move units into This Is My Land and gift to Greece. Now I have those two units in the cap and I disband the regular warrior and upgrade the Pike.

Take control of all workers and units that are in the field. Make a few changes to builds. Up research after swwitching to Steam. Steam now in 14 turns.

1240AD:
I have handled three landings by Inca, because I had rails up. I have no concerns about being attacked any where now as I can send units all over the place.

I have tamed Umma long ago with size 3 an no growth. I razed the two cities near Umma and then I razed Ur and have a settler on site to found a town.

Five armies filled now and 1 empty. (3 MDI and 2 Calv all 4x) Pentagon and Mil Acad are built.

France and Greece are gone.

Income 759/654 Science 317/255 Corruption 266/260 Maint 87/64 Unit cost 47/84 Net +52/ -5 mine are the first ones and the secodn is from your save.
Research at 70%.

So more income, more research, much stronger military. Clearly better to go Steam.

Now if one likes to go communism, that could have been done, I am not a fan of it and would not do it. First it is a bad habit to play to research it first as above Emperor, you will not beat the AI to it very often and they may not have enough to pay you off, if you did.

I have upgraded all trebs and all except some pikes and still have about 3300 gold. No trades are in place.

1260AD eliminated Iroq from contient.
1270AD steal Nat.

Another reason to not beeline to Commie is irrigation. If you take the normal, IMO, path of Steam and getting to ToE, you get Electricity sooner. Now you can irrigated those towns that are not growing, without running water over to them.

Iron Works done.

Very little of the so called micromanaging was done. Most of the checking on towns would not need to be repeat after you get the normal flow of things.

Moving on to 1340AD, where I stop as your last one at the time was 1345AD.

At this stage you have Med/Nat/Com are in communism and Steam in 5 or 6 turns. You are making 482 per turn and 4 from taxman. The empire at 1340 is making 662 and +12 taxmen, while still in Monarchy.

True the AI is paying some 290 gpt, not sure how long that will last though. The Inca already have steam and you don't.

The 1340AD save has alreay removed all, but the Zulu and they would be attack now, if I was to play on. I have Steam/Industry/Med/Nat/Com and Electricity in 6, 5 if I was at 1345.

Cap has factory up and coal plant in 2. MA and Pentagon are up, I have 7 armies and can roll the Zulu in a hurry. Rails are up to all cities and much of the coastal tiles. The 27 cannons can reach any place in the empire instantly.

Now if you like communism, you are religious and could switch any time. Here is a major kicker to communism. You have this gold and can't buy a dam thing. I have about 6500 in gold and all units upgraded, but 10 muskets. I could do them, but I won't. My unit cost is 4 gold and will probaly go down as many towns will soon be cities.

I can rush buy those temples in any captured or planet town. I could steal, but the AI will not have that much to steal from now on. It is already behind in research and will fall farther behind. Once the Zulu go down, the Inca are all alone in research and will struggle more.

I would soon start making science farms and really boost research. None of this means any thing to me, unless I have peace of mind on my empire being safe. This cannot happen until rails are up and that is going to be a long long time for your save, it is already done in mine.

This is why you do not go to communism first, that is for the AI. That is why we over take it eventually, even at Sid.

Again I never made any statement about communism being a bad form of governemnt, although I think it is a bad form. Yes it has a small window of value when an empire is fairly large, but then it starts to fall off, if that empire get much larger.

The real killer is forced labor is not a preferred means of rushing things. The place you most often want to rush things are the very places that it will be the least viable for pop rushing. Namely new towns and captured ones that are in disorder.

BTW now is when I would start making galleons to be upgraded when transprts become available and then pay the Inca a visit and make them very unhappy.

They have been at war the whole time with only a short break. Right afer I granted them peace, they came around wiht a demand. That was funny as they could do nothing to me, except give me chamces forpromotions and leaders.

Also I have not made any armies form the MA. Either the Suffage or an army will be a pre for the TOE. I don't know if I would actually build the Unversal wonder. It is not needed if you are in a no WW gov, but may want to prevent the Inca from having.

Anyway this is one perspective FWISW. :D

Really do not understand how one has to give so much gold and two lux for peace, but I declare war to put a stop to that nonsense.

Since you ran the test, I doubt there is ill will, but am I the only one who could interpret this as a derogatory statement?

In post 111 at 1050 AD here is what I did:
Buy magnetism from Pachacuti for wines, ivory and 32 gpt.

IIRC we only paid 80 gold to get peace with them after successfully fending off their landings.

It is obvious that you and I think very differently. It seems likely your strategy will work. I am glad you took the time to do this experiment - thanks.

I also disagree that there is nothing to do with the cash. You can run deficits to research, upgrade units and/or steal techs. Up until communism you can cash rush units near any landing points.

I suspect how the Sumerians got so much cash is they were the tech leaders when we went after them. So even though they were small they had a tech lead, and the AI could only offer them gold in exchange for their techs (try selling a luxury or resource to an AI with a few cities - it is not worth much to them). I don't specifically recall it being us, as we were at war with them. It is possible money we put into the world market cycled to them through trades. I am out of time for this right now so I have to leave it at that.

zerksees I had no intention of demeaning anyone. It is hard to know how things are meant in print as they lack tone. In any of my post, my intent is either to help or to learn something myself.

I know of no one who plays without making mistakes and as such, I do not take it as a personal affront, if one of mine is pointed put. Please note, I am not saying you made a mistake.

On the cash in Commuism, you are running at 100% with a per turn surplus, so it will be a long time before it can fund any deficit researching.

It is unusal to find the AI with much extra income or cash on hand in Emperor games. By the time you are into the industrial age, they should be hard press to have spending money on any large scale.

The one exception I would expect to see if a KAI. Inca could have gotten to that level, but Sumeria was never controlling a lot of your contient was it?

Anyway under almost no condition would I feed the largest civ in the game. Not only were they getting two deals for gpt, they also got two lux.

The cash coming in props up their reseach and the lux frees up pop to work tiles. I may trade two lux to a weak civ, but not a strong one.

Mag is not of any interest to me at that point in the game anyway. I am not going to be invading any lands, until I have my contient in total control.

In this game, that would be about the time I has transports and flight. So again, helping them with income and lux is just not going to happen. I will not even sell them a lux, unless it was going cost them more than it helped them. I would rather do without the income.

Again let me apologize if I offend anyone on your team. It was not my intent, nor did I want to portray myself as some guru. Just thought I had a few ideas worth mentioning for your consideration.

I forgot to mention one other thing I did. I sold Industrial to Sumeria. I would not normally have done that, but they have a lot of cash and I did not want it to go to the Ican civ.

They in turn sold it to Inca for about 284 gpt. I could have gotten that trade by ending the war and then having tha income, about the same as you had.

I chose not to do that I did not want to let them out of war and the money gong to the Sumerians will do them no good. They only have 1 town.

I would consider making a few ships now and sending a 3x army over to eliminate all the single island civs. This stops them from taking cycles in the game and reduces my research cost and raising the Incan's a bit.

You could make a case for either doing the way I did or making the trade with both or not trading it at all.

Looks like vmxa did better off playing those turns :goodjob: of course he wasn't doing a succesion game. And I think a agree that giving the Inca all of that for Magnetism wasn't the best idea ever. They're getting very big, very fast. If I could see the histograph, I could see how powerful they were. Anyway, - hey wait a minute, isn't magnetism a required tech? I overlooked that at first. In that case, I still don't think giving them that much for it was a good idea, but buying it was a good idea. BTW, what's a KAI? It's not in the "commonly used acronyms" list.

Killer AI, a civ that is getting very large and can kill other civs and maybe you.

Mag is required, just maybe not right at that moment and at a high price. I think of it like this. Do I need it? Do I need it now? Do I need it at that price? Will it help them more than me and by how much more?
If all pass the test, I pull the trigger.

Giving out 32 gpt and a couple lux was a good deal to me to get the last tech in the middle ages. What are they going to do - build a bunch of ships and attack me? Build more improvements? Research more techs? Go ahead Pachacuti, build up all the improvements and units you can. Let that economy build more stuff. In 20 or 30 turns that happy democracy is going to have a big war to deal with and all those extra units are going to be chasing bait while I wreck your cities. All the while my communism will be growing stronger and stronger.

In this game the Inca have come close to being the killer AI. Fortunately the geography that allowed them to get that big (continents) is also insulating us from them. I am guessing the agricultural trait gave them a leg up on getting more land (and therefore more resources) than their AI counterparts. Subsequently their neighbors got crushed by them. I doubt they will crush us though. They have rarely been the tech leader - that was Gilgamesh. Without all the trading the tech pace will slow, and we will be able to stay in range.

Zerksees I'm not questioning getting out of the MA's but in my experience the AI will use lump sum for military (upgrading and cash rushing) but gpt to fund research. By adding luxs to the equation tends to add more fuel to the research pace since the AI is reluctant to use the lux slider and will use clowns in lieu of luxs.

Did you check to see if they'd offer a better deal with a ROP and/or by renegotiating the peace treaty?

Are you trying to accelerate the pace or slow the pace down?

zerksees
"Giving out 32 gpt and a couple lux was a good deal to me to get the last tech in the middle ages. What are they going to do - build a bunch of ships and attack me? Build more improvements? Research more techs? Go ahead Pachacuti, build up all the improvements and units you can. Let that economy build more stuff. In 20 or 30 turns that happy democracy is going to have a big war to deal with and all those extra units are going to be chasing bait while I wreck your cities. All the while my communism will be growing stronger and stronger."

What they will do and what they did was eat their neighbors and get much stronger. I would not be all that concerned about getting to the next age. I am going to get there in due time.

I am concerned about not creating a monster on the other contient. That my taking down my contient. Any form of governement will grow stronger and stronger. I already proved that communism is not the best. It will perform even less well when you get very very large.

Smaller empire cannot spread the corruption and do poorly in communism, large ones do well as they can handle communal corruption. Very large empires start doing poorly as the more towns they get the more corruption has to be shared. It can get to the point that it starts corrupting the core.

So what does communism do for me? It make my crap towns only bad, not crap. It eventually makes all my cities mediocore. I don't want that. I want my core to rock and I don't care about the rest of the cities.

All you are saying is that emperor is an easy level and can be beat with most any level of play. I agree.

BTW Mag cost 2040 beakers at Emp on a std map, so I would say you paid full price. I would put two lux at at least 65gpt for a civ the size of the Inca, so you are roughly 100gpt for 20 turns. Just about full price.

My whole point is that you just cannot justify giving that much help to a civ the size of the Inca.

As far as war and them being in democracy,they will be able to stay in it a lot longer than you think.

"In this game the Inca have come close to being the killer AI. Fortunately the geography that allowed them to get that big (continents) is also insulating us from them. I am guessing the agricultural trait gave them a leg up on getting more land (and therefore more resources) than their AI counterparts. Subsequently their neighbors got crushed by them. I doubt they will crush us though. They have rarely been the tech leader - that was Gilgamesh. Without all the trading the tech pace will slow, and we will be able to stay in range."

They got the head start because they have a very early UU and triggered a GA and rocketed out. You never have to worry about the AI taken you down from another contient, even Sid civs cannot pull that off against me.

They won't come out till they can traverse the sea and ocean safely.

Will you guys ever stop arguing? :( The game has already been played, they're not going to go back and change it, vmxa. While a agree with you about not giving all that to Inca, and that doing a deal that makes the most powerful AI civ more powerful, getting magnetism wasn't such a bad idea. Maybe it could've waited, but it was nesscesary sooner or later. Anyway, you're probably not going to pay much attention to this, but at least I tried. No one answered my question, but I'm guessing KAI means Killer AI. Am I right?

No one answered my question, but I'm guessing KAI means Killer AI. Am I right? KAI does mean killer AI aka "the runaway AI"

No one answered my question, but I'm guessing KAI means Killer AI. Am I right?

I did answer you in post #151. I am more than happy to stop the debate.

[delurk]Zerksees I'm not questioning getting out of the MA's but in my experience the AI will use lump sum for military (upgrading and cash rushing) but gpt to fund research. By adding luxs to the equation tends to add more fuel to the research pace since the AI is reluctant to use the lux slider and will use clowns in lieu of luxs.
I did not really think about the gpt aspect of the game you mentioned. I just wanted out of the middle age, and as a bonus I got a little insurance against sneak attack. I did not want all that gold in the market to buy techs - but I should have been thinking that soon there would be no one to buy them from. :crazyeye: I knew I was fanning the flames by giving them two luxes. Hopefully it will cost them when their cities are starving without them and with war weariness. :)
Did you check to see if they'd offer a better deal with a ROP and/or by renegotiating the peace treaty?
No I did not. These are good ideas I should have tried.
Are you trying to accelerate the pace or slow the pace down? Definitely slow is better, so it seems gpt is the wrong thing. If there are several AI it has been my experience that the money flies around while they are trading techs among themselves, and that makes me avoid lump sum.

All you communism doubters might want to check out this thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=82268).

Looks like vmxa did better off playing those turns :goodjob: Are you sure about that? :mischief:
BTW KAI = killer AI. You are correct.

I am concerned about not creating a monster on the other contient.
I looked at your save last night.

................vmxa1340AD...trainingmission1345AD
Inca
land area........41%...............39%
population.......47%...............46%
score.............2404...............2385

Egypt
land area........30%...............32%
population.......35%...............35%
....................11.3 million.......9.2 million
score.............1642..............1649

unit count.......128................185
(I think vmxa built more improvements)

When you consider vmxa actually has a higher population than we do, that means the Inca are even bigger than percentage difference shows.

I ran a test on vmxa's game and converted it to communism. That game actually produced about 10% less gold but 3% more shields in communism than monarchy. The outer cities appear to be MM for population/specialist farms not shields. There were fewer cities and I am sure if there were more the shield difference would even be better.
I don't suppose this proves anything to anyone.

vmxa - if you have time why not play it through to the end and see how long it takes to get domination victory? Post a save under a generic name like "vmxafinal.sav" and we can compare results at the end. I would not want to look at it until the succession game is over. I suspect you can finish faster but it will still be fun to see how it plays out.

vmxa - if you have time why not play it through to the end and see how long it takes to get domination victory? Post a save under a generic name like "vmxafinal.sav" and we can compare results at the end. I would not want to look at it until the succession game is over. I suspect you can finish faster but it will still be fun to see how it plays out.

Hi zerksees, I have played it out to Flight and Tanks at around 1650. I will post it when I am done, but I play the slow grinding sort of game. It may not be of much interest.

I like to slowing take land from the AI and give them no chance to get any back or do any damage. Anyway you can probably look at as it won't tell you anything new. You already know the map, well check that. I forgot about resource placement. Then I doubt that they will be a factor.

Anyway I failed three time to make my point. It was never that communism is good or bad or better or worse. It was only that I would rather have rails than have Communism. I do not even research it.

It struck me as funny that you mention you wanted Mag to get to the next age and then you research two optional tech in that age. I rarely research either Nat or Com. I want to get to Flight.

It does not matter in this game, but having rails up makes it so much easier to control your contient. Landings are not an issue, they can no longer land in a spot, regardless of the number, that can threaten me.

The other aspect is that after they have tried a number of landings and failed, they tend to start running frigates over to bombard you.

With the rails up, I can send over arties to redline them, most of the time, and send them home. Thus reducing the damage to me. You could of course make lots of ships yourself and fight them off.

I am loathed to do that as it means spending shield on ships, that I would rather not have. Many of them will be lost. I seldom have more than 5 or 6 capitol ships in a game. Just my style, remember I am in no hurry and I do not want them to make me take losses.

Republic citizens do not like losing units. As it happens, I am not going to come out of monarchy in this game. Even though Rep would make a lot more beakers. I just don't care about researching all that much now that I have started to take them down.

IBT
New Salamanca Riflemen st RM
Four completes Library st Cavalry
Busiris completes Aqueduct st Cavalry
& Completes Market st Cavalry
DaBomb completes Aqueduct st Cavalry
Resistance end in Hlobane – changed to tax collectors

Turn 1
Starting to Position Units

IBT
Sumer completed Temple st Cavalry

Turn 2
Army takes Musket
Army takes RM
INTombe Falls and it is Razed 4 gp
Army Takes Musket
RM takes long bowman
Cavalry takes Rm

IBT
MI defends against Long bowman
Cavalry defend against rm
Army defends against longbows
Lomax completed frigate st frigate
Umma completes Temple starts Cavalry
Wines completes frigate stat frigate


Turn 3
Reposition units

IBT
Deer completes Harbor st cavalry
Behun completes settle st settler
Pompeii completes RM stat rm

Turn 4
AC takes RM
Ac takes RM

IBT
Thebes complete Cavalry st cavalry
2 completes library st cavalry
3 completes bank st cavalry
Zerkesees completes RM starts RM
Booey completes Rm st RM
Incas land near tugela


Turn 5
Army takes 4 rm
Army takes long bowman
Bapedi falls and it is raze no gp
Athribis is founded
Army takes 2 Rm and long bowman and Swazi falls
Army takes RM
Booey attacks but retreats
Cavalry takes Rm Tuggla falls

IBT
RM Defeat Longbow
AC defeats Long and Lomax II is born
We have TRAINS
Cairo completes Aqueduct Start RM
6 completes settler st Settles
Pithhim completes Market st Cavalry
FF completes market starts Cavalry
Gary completes Settler st RM

Turn 6
Founded No No Inca’s

IBT
Bong product Bank St Cavalry
Baby completes RM St RM
Alps complete harbor st cavalry

Turn 7
Army takes rm
Cavalry take rm now elite
AC takes Long Issandwanw fall w 1 gp
Army takes Rm
Cavalry take Rm
Army Take RM

IBT
Four complete cavalry st cavalry
Cheese completes Courthouse st cavalry
RT completes cannon st cannon

Turn 8
Cavalry takes rm
AC takes longbow U

IBT
New Sal complete RM st RM
NO Zulu completes rm st rm
Stern completes rm st rm
Abydos completes library st cavalry

Turn 9
Army takes Rm
Army takes Run
Zulu are no longer

IBT
Frame offer MPP we decline
Sumerians put a city
Expanded the places

Turn 10
Founded cities
Rush
Tanis
Bubastis

The Sumerians drop a city before I could get a settler in place; there is one waiting in the outskirts. I did not declare war on them.

There are 3 Armies in the south 2 near Ulundi, and 1 in Mpondo.
There are 3 Armies in the middle for the Iroquois north of Lomax (2 armies are in Umma)
There is an empty Army also


TOMINATOR: THE CANNONs ARE UNDER THE ARMY north of Lomax :p


The railway structure is almost completed south needs to be completed joining Mpondo North: deer and Booey need to be linked in

Unit victories (32 – 0) I am sure that choxorn will recount my figures but the 0 still stands !

As for VMXA and Zerksees arguments: other then it being almost as interesting as the game it self – it is also very educational that it shows the different aspects of game.
I for one have learn something from their posts – so keep it up guys

Comments on last few posts: vmxa- sorry, you didn't clearly answer my question in post 151. You said " Killer AI- ..." not " KAI means killer AI" BTW, how do you quote multiple posts? And you rarely research nationalism??? :eek: It allows drafts, mobilization, and the specialist "police officer", not to mention it's needed for espionage!!! How can you not research it??? :ack: :vomit: :wallbash: :thumbdown :spank: :shake: :bump: (note: overdo of smilies on purpose, and no offense is intended) zerksees- forget it. I'm not saying vmxa did do better, I'm saying it looked like he did. I notice you guys still are arguing over the game :undecide: lomax- I checked. The final answer is at the bottom, and I put bold numbers in the battles.

IBT
New Salamanca Riflemen st RM
Four completes Library st Cavalry
Busiris completes Aqueduct st Cavalry
& Completes Market st Cavalry
DaBomb completes Aqueduct st Cavalry
Resistance end in Hlobane – changed to tax collectors

Turn 1
Starting to Position Units

IBT
Sumer completed Temple st Cavalry

Turn 2
Army takes Musket[1-0]
Army takes RM[2-0]
INTombe Falls and it is Razed 4 gp
Army Takes Musket[3-0]
RM takes long bowman[4-0]
Cavalry takes Rm[5-0]

IBT
MI defends against Long bowman[6-0]
Cavalry defend against rm[7-0]
Army defends against longbows[8-0]
Lomax completed frigate st frigate
Umma completes Temple starts Cavalry
Wines completes frigate stat frigate


Turn 3
Reposition units

IBT
Deer completes Harbor st cavalry
Behun completes settle st settler
Pompeii completes RM stat rm

Turn 4
AC takes RM[9-0]
Ac takes RM[10-0]

IBT
Thebes complete Cavalry st cavalry
2 completes library st cavalry
3 completes bank st cavalry
Zerkesees completes RM starts RM
Booey completes Rm st RM
Incas land near tugela


Turn 5
Army takes 4 rm[14-0]
Army takes long bowman[15-0]
Bapedi falls and it is raze no gp
Athribis is founded
Army takes 2 Rm and long bowman and Swazi falls[17-0]
Army takes RM[18-0]
Booey attacks but retreats
Cavalry takes Rm Tuggla falls[19-0]

IBT
RM Defeat Longbow[20-0]
AC defeats Long and Lomax II is born[21-0]
We have TRAINS
Cairo completes Aqueduct Start RM
6 completes settler st Settles
Pithhim completes Market st Cavalry
FF completes market starts Cavalry
Gary completes Settler st RM

Turn 6
Founded No No Inca’s

IBT
Bong product Bank St Cavalry
Baby completes RM St RM
Alps complete harbor st cavalry

Turn 7
Army takes rm[22-0]
Cavalry take rm now elite[23-0]
AC takes Long Issandwanw fall w 1 gp[24-0]
Army takes Rm[25-0]
Cavalry take Rm[26-0]
Army Take RM[27-0]

IBT
Four complete cavalry st cavalry
Cheese completes Courthouse st cavalry
RT completes cannon st cannon

Turn 8
Cavalry takes rm[28-0]
AC takes longbow U[29-0]

IBT
New Sal complete RM st RM
NO Zulu completes rm st rm
Stern completes rm st rm
Abydos completes library st cavalry

Turn 9
Army takes Rm[30-0]
Army takes Run[31-0]
Zulu are no longer

IBT
Frame offer MPP we decline
Sumerians put a city
Expanded the places

Turn 10
Founded cities
Rush
Tanis
Bubastis

The Sumerians drop a city before I could get a settler in place; there is one waiting in the outskirts. I did not declare war on them.

There are 3 Armies in the south 2 near Ulundi, and 1 in Mpondo.
There are 3 Armies in the middle for the Iroquois north of Lomax (2 armies are in Umma)
There is an empty Army also


TOMINATOR: THE CANNONs ARE UNDER THE ARMY north of Lomax :p


The railway structure is almost completed south needs to be completed joining Mpondo North: deer and Booey need to be linked in

Unit victories (32 – 0) I am sure that choxorn will recount my figures but the 0 still stands !

As for VMXA and Zerksees arguments: other then it being almost as interesting as the game it self – it is also very educational that it shows the different aspects of game.
I for one have learn something from their posts – so keep it up guys

So you were one off :p, unless when you said "Army defends against longbows" you meant two of them. And you also later said "Booey attacks but retreats" What does that mean? and BTW guys- STOP BUGGING ME ABOUT THESE NUMBER PROBLEMS!!!! I told you already, I only mentioned it in the first place because it was interesting to me!! let it go!!! :aargh: Sorry if I used to many !!!'s. It's just starting to get annoying.

Nice job lomax! I need to look at the save but knocking out the Zulu in 10 was a good accomplishment, considering where everything was left. Too bad Sumeria got in there but they will save us a settler.:) Right now we are going to let them be as they are paying us a lot of gpt - I am glad you did not attack them.

Tominator2 you will be next. I hope to draw up some plans tonight. Please wait for them.

Anyway I failed three time to make my point. It was never that communism is good or bad or better or worse. It was only that I would rather have rails than have Communism. I do not even research it.
I get it. This message was mixed in with so many other things in the prior posts that a simpleton like me lost it with all the other stuff.
It struck me as funny that you mention you wanted Mag to get to the next age and then you research two optional tech in that age. I rarely research either Nat or Com. I want to get to Flight.
As you know I like communism. It is my govt of choice for this type of game. The AI charges a lot of gold for nationalism and government techs. So the best route for me is to research these expensive techs then try to but steam power, medicine, etc. Often I can trade the expensive optional techs to get where I need to go. In this game there were not enough good AI left to make that happen.
It does not matter in this game, but having rails up makes it so much easier to control your contient. Landings are not an issue, they can no longer land in a spot, regardless of the number, that can threaten me.I hope you can see there are diplomatic and strategic defensive ways to reduce this risk for the short time it takes to get the steam power. Yes rails are one way and it is a high priority.

I notice you guys still are arguing over the game
I guess its not really an argument - it is a debate over game approach. We are sharing perspective. We have had other debates in the past.
lomax- I checked. The final answer is at the bottom, and I put bold numbers in the battles.
Predictably you had to go and count it. If you can't stand a little good-natured ribbing then you should probably unsubscribe from this thread. Any further discussion on validating counts is not relevant to this thread - so please stop.

BTW - to get multiple quotes, just copy and paste to another document each person's quote, then come back to a reply and paste them all in.

choxorn, sorry I am goofing off and watching lots of NCAA basket now, so I am not gettnig much else done and have not read the SG's.

"BTW, how do you quote multiple posts? And you rarely research nationalism??? It allows drafts, mobilization, and the specialist "police officer", not to mention it's needed for espionage!!! How can you not research it???"

Eventually I get at least Nat. I either steal or get it for peace or if a civ has fallen way back, a tech deal. I pretty much never go into Mob, even in an AW game. I have researched it, but more often than not I don't.

I am not in a great rush to get spies as you have to buld the IA first and that takes time anyway. I mostly play sid games and know what to expect from the AI. Once I start coming after the AI, I will get spies up and do steals only, not even a single scientist. I have found that I cannot even get things like Ironclads before they finally come back for it. So I may as well get gold instead. 50x2 gold is better than 45 turns in having the AI get the tech. Not that I want Ironclads, but I may be able to trade it, if not doing AW.

Anyway you can probably get the quotes a number of ways. Zerksees mentioned a good one. I just cut an paste from any number or location as I go along.

If it is multiple quotes from the same post, then I probaly started by using the quote buton and then break it up and place my own quotes in.

Tominator2 you are next - Play through turn 1450 AD
bobbabooey you are on deck

Trade advisor:
Sell steam power to France for all the gold and gpt you can get
Sell steam power to Iroquois for all the gold and gpt you can get
Get the spices from Sumerians. Will probably have to give steam power and a lux or some gpt

These moves will keep the extra gold from the Inca, and deny them the extra luxury from Sumeria
We are going to let Iroquois live for now. If we attack them the Inca might too and we would lose our easy beachhead there.

Domestic advisor:

#1 -> get cities connected with railroads. Do not waste time with irrigating or mining right now. Do not railroad on hills or mountains if possible.
Put at least four units in Ur as it has a slight flip risk
Ur and Sumer can build another culture building for us
Put new city on red dot, then on each of the four blue dots
City builds:
Thebes – pentagon
Six – settlers
Nine – finish current build then put up a temple
Cheese – change to settler immediately
Cities south of green line – if over 10 shields in the box then switch to temple builds immediately. We need temples to fill in the gaps.
Cities south of Da Bomb can also build workers – another dozen or so will be a good start and highest priority.
Keep building settlers as you will need some to cover the blue dots.
Most of the new cities can also build markets or aqueducts after temples.

Science advisor:
Finish electricity and start scientific method. Leave slider at 100% science

Military advisor:
Put some riflemen in the city by the Inca cavalry
Take out the barbarians near Bubastis with non-elite single cavalry (might get promotions)
Do not declare war. If someone tries demanding something tell them no
Upgrade any remaining pikes or muskets to riflemen
The empty army is to be left empty in a safe place
Keep the cannons well protected
Get our armies healed up
If you see any privateers you can bombard them with frigates and sink with privateers or frigates
If Inca declare war on France, give them nationalism for whatever you can get.

Still need something to build?
How about a dozen galleons, 5 more frigates and a couple privateers, 20 more veteran cavalry, 20 more riflemen, 20 more cannon

If the Inca declare war then bomb down those cavalry with cannons and take them out with armies. Do not attempt to attack their lands. If you decide to attack shipping, do not attack unless their ships are redline or defend at 1.

Don't worry there are going to be more wars. I'm a thinkin' lomax might get to start the war if peace lasts that long.

Edit: add the picture attachment

I was thinking this should be clarified.
If Inca declare war on France, give them nationalism for whatever you can get.


If the Inca declare war on France, Give France Nationalism so they can defend themselves and draft citizens which may make it a little tougher for the Inca to wipe them out.

Booey! :egypt:

That is correct. I should have clarified that. Inca already have nationalism and we certainly do not want to help them.

Predictably you had to go and count it. If you can't stand a little good-natured ribbing then you should probably unsubscribe from this thread. Any further discussion on validating counts is not relevant to this thread - so please stop.

BTW - to get multiple quotes, just copy and paste to another document each person's quote, then come back to a reply and paste them all in.

That's exactly why I posted it, zerksees. To make that point, that lomax and tominator should stop bugging me about this. Didn't you read the bottom of my post?

and BTW guys- STOP BUGGING ME ABOUT THESE NUMBER PROBLEMS!!!! I told you already, I only mentioned it in the first place because it was interesting to me!! let it go!!! :aargh:

Anyway, I might still check, but I won't post things like this anymore. I'll only mention mistakes if there are big enough ones to mention.

Eventually I get at least Nat. I either steal or get it for peace or if a civ has fallen way back, a tech deal. I pretty much never go into Mob, even in an AW game. I have researched it, but more often than not I don't.

I am not in a great rush to get spies as you have to buld the IA first and that takes time anyway. I mostly play sid games and know what to expect from the AI. Once I start coming after the AI, I will get spies up and do steals only, not even a single scientist. I have found that I cannot even get things like Ironclads before they finally come back for it. So I may as well get gold instead. 50x2 gold is better than 45 turns in having the AI get the tech. Not that I want Ironclads, but I may be able to trade it, if not doing AW.


Okay, so I overreacted. And I admit, I've actually never used any of these (I don't think), but I haven't played enough games that have gotten to this tech without getting conquered :( to use them. However, draft and mob might be necessary in my current game, but that's getting off-topic.[offtopic] I still like spy missions, though. But you're right, you can always trade for it, steal it, get it off an AI civ for peace :mischief: or get it as your free tech when you enter that age as a scientific civ. In other words, you don't have to research it to get it. :D

Booey! :egypt:

I'm guessing that means Booey is an Elite* unit that's been renamed.

I'm guessing that means Booey is an Elite* unit that's been renamed.

Booey was just a goofy way for me to sign off. Just like saying bye. I was also playing up all the overuse of the icons....

Then I wonder why lomax never answered my "Booey attacks but retreats" question?

highlights
- got all the cities we wanted built, built
- railroads freakin' everywhere
- got some money for steam power
- discovered electricity
- providing french with saltpeter
- we haven't lost yet

concerns
- inca have declared war
- lost NoNo Inca's in the first engagement
- we're losing money
- we have no incense

what the hell i was thinking
- tried to build markets to fix money issues
- tried to build temples to plug culture holes
- am tired and will yield last 1.5 turns to next in line rather than wait a day

next few turns
- NoNo Inca's should be easy to take back
- we should bombard one of the Inca island outposts in retaliation

Summary
1395ad
- iro want mutual protection act, we sell steam instead for 50gp/19gpt
- Lomax: frig -> frig
- Nine: bank -> temple
- Zerksees: rifle -> worker
- Buhen: settler -> market
- Oryx: cav -> cav

1400ad
- Cheese changes build to settler
- French will only give world map for steam (they're broke)
- Zerksees: worker -> worker
- Lomax 2: market -> temple
- Memphis: market -> worker
- Elephantine: market -> temple
- Stepping Stone: harbor -> barracks

1405ad
- horse beats bar war [1-0]
- horse beats bar war [2-0]
- we take Mycenian camp for 25gp
- France want rop (we say no)
- France lands force near Bubastis
- Two: cav -> cav
- Eight: aqua -> lib
- Zerksees: work -> cav
- Cheese: settler -> market
- DaBomb: cav -> cav

1410ad
- Tomopolis founded near Ulundi (starts on temple - we will push the Sumerians into the sea!)
- Tomopolis Hts founded nearby (starts on longbow)
- New Thebes founded (starts on rifleman, locks French off continent)
- Thebes: cav -> pentagon
- Three: cav -> harbor
- Cairo: rifle -> lib
- Busiris: cav -> market
- Pithom: cav -> rifle
- Pompeii: rifle -> aqua

1415ad
- we lose supply of incense
- Sumerians have no spices
- Heliopolis founded (starts on rifle)
- Sumer: change to lib
- Ibabanago: change to temple
- New Salamanca: rifle -> bank
- Umma: cav -> cannon
- Four: cav -> rifle
- Nine: temple -> cath
- St. Regis: cav -> frig
- Seven: cav -> settler
- Booey: rifle -> market
- Memphis: worker -> temple
- Ibabanago: temple -> rifle

1420ad
- nothing much
- we discover electricity, start on scientific method
- Six: settler -> temple
- RockyTop: cannon -> market


1425ad
- Alexandria founded (starts on rifle)
- French offer 18gpt for saltpeter - we say ok (it should bug the inca)
- Bong: cav -> rifle
- Jungle Baby: rifle -> market
- Abydos: cav -> worker
- Elephantine: cav -> bank

1430ad
- Tanis changes to temple
- Tomopolis Hts changes to temple
- Wines: frig -> market
- Deer: cav -> market
- Abydos: worker -> worker

1435ad
- Zimbabwe Road changes to lib
- Inca wants wines - they can go blow
- Inca declare war
- Inca frig beats frig [2-1]
- Inca horse beats horse in NoNo Zulu (x3) [2-4]
- Inca take NoNo Inca's (perhaps a better name? :cringe:)
- Inca horse loses to rifle [3-4]
- Lomax: frig -> cav
- Ulundi: cav -> cav
- Five: uni -> rifle
- Lomax 2: temple -> cav
- Abydos: worker -> rifle
- Memphis: temple -> cav
- Fill: settler -> temple

1440ad
- priv beats frig [4-4]
- i'm tired and hand over war

I guess peace was short lived. I will guess the Inca democracy will also be short lived.:mischief:

Too bad we lost a city. I think I asked for some extra rifles in NoNo Inca. I think they had 4 cavs - I would have put 5 rifles in there so they could not take it.

bobbabooey your are next. Write your own detailed plan and post it here before playing.

We do not want peace with the Inca. Now that they have started it we will finish.

Near term objectives:

We can't mount a good invasion yet, but we can pillage. So try to get three or more frigates and a galleon together, and send a cavalry army over to Inca to pillage. If possible send a second transport with explorers. Also use the explorers to pillage just make sure they end their turn under the army. I would like to pillage all around the capital first, but strategic resources or lux would also be good.

Once all cities are railroaded you can send the rest of the cavalry armies over to pillage.

Finish scientific method, then change palace pre-build in Gems to Theory of Evolution (TOE). If TOE completes then pick replaceable parts and espionage as your techs. Here you will need a judgement call. If TOE is going to take more turns than it takes to research a tech, then start another tech. If TOE can be done faster then set research to 0% and wait for it to finish.

After repl parts and espionage I think we want the corporation and sanitation. With espionage we might be able to steal them "safely". Long term we will then go for refining and steel and work our way to flight and tanks.

After replaceable parts upgrade all the riflemen to infantry and cannons to artillery. Do not send them overseas until they are upgraded. I really don't expect we will be ready for any landings in your turn set.

This is important: Use Inca invasions as a chance to farm elites and leaders. Convert the leaders to armies. The more armies we have the easier it will be. Use cannon/artillery to redline and then finish off with elites (or vets to try to create more elites).

Let's leave France out for now. If Inca declare war on them then give them nationalism for whatever you can get.

Keep ships stacked. Use frigates to bombard and privateers to sink/capture. Attacking their ships is optional. Our navy is way more useful as escort for galleons than sinking their ships.

We need the small wonder that allows 4 units in an army. Do not load in the fourth unit until the army gets to Inca land.

Oh yeah - retake NoNoInca or whatever it is called. I prefer this be used as way to generate leaders/elites, so if it takes an extra turn to move the cannons in range so be it.

The Plan:
Make all cities accessible by rail.
Organize all our boats on our west coast. There are 2 galleons in Pithom. I would like to have 4 explorers on the boats and send them to grenobie to start the pillage on their spices. 2 or 3 galleons need to be created on our east coast so an army can be shipped. Create 4 more explorers to be sent East. Organize the boats In Eight in the mean time.
There are 32 turns left in the Palace pre-build. More than likely, we will be researching a tech after we get Scientific Method.
Take No No Incas back. This will be a good training ground for our veteran units. Take cannons and bomb them down to 1 then finish them with veterans / elites and hope for more leaders.
I think it would be a good idea to leave a spot open for the Inca's to drop a city on our continent for further training missions. I think the spot below Hlobane would be a good place to keep open even though it is on a hill. Also there is a spot below no no incas. Also on another hill.
Create more settlers to fill in the spots in the South from old Zulu Territory.
Watch the borders. Put units on each hill mountain so if the incans attempt to land in our territory, they will be forced to land on anything but hills or mountains.
If there are any other suggestions, please let me know. I intend to play my turns tomorrow (Wed 3/14).

boobabooey -
Suggestion: Leave cheese undefended and they will land near there. Use cheese as bait. The AI has a hard time resisting an undefended city. I don't really care if they drop a city - I want their units to train on. Since we are at war they will send units.

Regarding TOE - I would not be so sure we will be researching because the palace probably requires 1000 shields by now and TOE only requires 600 IIRC. This is why I brought it up. So the 32 turns is deceiving.

0) 1440 AD - Take boats out of open water. Continue on RRs. Switched St. Regis and Busiris to Galleon. Moved Elites and Cannons to No No Incas. Switched bong to explorer. Switched Gary to explorer losing 8 gold. Changed Athribis to explorer losing 10 gold. Changed Rocky Top from Marketplace to explorer. Changed Memphis from Rifleman to explorer. Changed Lomax II from Cavalry to explorer. Changed Ibabango from Rifleman to Explorer. Changed Alps from cavalry to Explorer.

IBT - Inca attempted to take out a privateer. We successfully defended. (1 - 0)
Inca Cavalry attacked and beat our spearman and took some of our workers. (1 - 1)
Sumer produced Library. Start on Galleon.
Grrr produced Marketplace. Start on Bank.
Bong produced Explorer. Start on Galleon.
Umma produced Cannon. Start on Marketplace.
Four produced Rifleman. Start on Cavalry.
Our people want to build the iron works. Maybe we should.
Athribis produced Explorer. Start on Galleon.
Umtata created Cavalry. Start on Frigate.
Seven produced Settler. Start on another settler.
Alps produced Explorer. Start on Marketplace.
Final Frontieer produced Cavalry. Start on Frigate.
Rocky Top produced explorer. Start on Cannon.
Ibabanago produced explorer. Start on Rifleman.
Gary produced Explorer. Start on Temple.

1) 1445 AD – Bomb no no Inca's with cannons.
Elite Cavalry attacks red lined rifleman. Winner (2 - 1)
Elite Longbowman attacks red lined cavalry. 1 shot winner (3 - 1)
Elite Cavalry attacks last red lined cavalry. 2 shot winner and take the city. We liberate 0 gold. They had a frigate in the city which we destroyed in the taking over of the city (4 - 1). Start on Galleon.
Loaded up the galleons on the West coast for it's journey to the incas for pillaging. Send 4 explorers and a cavalry army.
Bombed down cavalry down to red line and attacke with elite cavalry. Winner and took back our workers (5 - 1).

IBT – Incas attack and win against 1 of our frigates transporting towards eight. (5 - 2)
Three produced Harbor. Start on Frigate.
Zerksees produced Cavalry. Start on Bank.
Busiris produced Galleon. Start on Frigate.
Oryx produced Cavalry. Start on Cannon.

2) 1450 AD – Not much.

IBT – Incas unsuccessfully attack 1 of our frigates. (6 - 2)
ulundi creates explorer. Create Temple.
Two produced Cavalry. Create Courthouse.
No zulu ha ha creates Rifleman. Start on Library.
Cairo produces library. Start on Settler.
Six produced temple. Start on privateer.
St regis produced Galleon. Start on Frigate.
Pithom creates Rifleman. Start on Frigate.
Memphis produced Explorer. Start on Cannon.

3) 1455 ad – Upgrade Pikeman to Rifleman for 75 gold.
Not much. Aligning our units for the eastern trip towards the Incan capital.

IBT – We learned Scientific method. Changed to Replaceable parts. The incan brought 3 units for us to train near cheese.
Kuhan produced Cavalry. Start on Marketplace.
Bad-tibira Road created Rifleman. Start on Temple.
Lomax II created Explorer. Start on another Explorer.
Booey Created Marketplace. Start on Aqueduct.
Da bomb created Cavalry. Start on Frigate.
Too Close created Marketplace. Start on Aqueduct.

4) 1460 AD – Bomb down all the units incas brought by wines and cheese. Change Gems to Theory of Evolution. We lose 66 sheilds in the prebuild but it is worth it as we will be getting 2 techs. Changed our science down to 0% for 1 turn to make 494 gold.
Take out Inca Knight with elite cavalry. (7 - 2)
Take out Inca Cavalry with elite cavalry. (8 - 2)
Take out Inca Cavalry with elite longbowman. (9 - 2)

IBT - France and Inca signed a Mutual Protection Pact. More units in our territory that we can get rid of and train.
Iroquois warn. We appologize.
Ngome road Creates Cavalry. Start on Cannon.
We complete Theory of Evolution. We learned Replaceable Parts and Industrialization. I tried to start on Espionage but the game seemed to chose Industrialization itself. Start Infantry in Gems.
France declared war on us.

5) 1465 AD – Landed in Incan territory with 4 explorers and a cavalry army.
Upgrade 50 Riflemen to Infantry.
Bomb 2 french cavalry and pikeman down to red line.
Elite AC attacks French red lined cavalry and lises (9 - 3)
Elite cavalry takes out French red lined cavalry. (10 - 3)
Veteran Cavalry takes out French red lined Cavalry (11-3)
Veteran Cavalry takes out french pikeman. (12 - 3)
Upped tech slider to 100% and espionage will be done in 5 turns.

IBT - Incas sank one of our frigate stacks. (12 - 4)
Four produced Cavalry. Start on artilary.
Nine produced Cathedral. Start on infantry.
Cairo produced settler. Start on marketplace.

6) 1470 AD - upgrade 35 cannons to Artillery.
Pillage in incan territory with cavalry army and explorers.
Took out Incan Frigate. (13 - 4).
upgraded 1 rifleman to infantry.

IBT – Incas attack a frigate and were unsuccessful. (14 - 4)
New Salamanca creates a bank. Start on Infantry.
Unundi creates temple. start on Artillery
Tanis creates temple. Starts on Settler.
Bong creates galleon. Starts on galleon.
zimbabwe Road creates Library. Starts on Infantry.
Stern produced Infantry. Starts on artillery.
Our people love us and offer to expand the palace.
Incans land on our west coast.

7) 1475 AD – Red line their units.
Elite Cavalry attacks red lined rifleman. (15 - 4)
Elite longbowman attacks archer and we get another leader (16 - 4)
Elite cavalry attacks red lined crusader (17 - 4)
Veteran cavalry attacks red lined cavalry (18 - 4)
Galleon takes out frigate (19 - 4)

IBT – Sumeria and Inca has signed a trade embargo against us.
Sumer created Galleon. Create another Galleon.
Hloband created cavalry. Create Galleon.
Eight produced Library. Create Frigage.
Jungle Baby created Marketplace. Create Aqueduct.
Lomax II created Explorer. Start on settler.
Pithom created Frigate. Create another frigate.
Seven produced settler. Create Artillery.
Alex's Guest house created Harbor. Start on Temple.

8) 1480 AD - red lined all enemy ships on our border with our artillery.
Frigate takes out Inca Frigate. (20 - 4)
Frigate attempts to take out Inca frigate. Loser (20 - 5)
Created another cavalry army and get them ready to go overseas east.

IBT – Three created frigate. Create another frigate.
Six produced Privateer. Created Galleon.
Abydos created Infantry. Create Frigate.
Pompei created Aquaduct. Create Infantry.
Tomopolis created Temple. Create Marketplace.
Inca landed more troops near cheese. More training.

9) 1485 AD – Elite Privateer takes out Inca frigate. (21 - 5)
Regular Privateer takes out Inca Galley. (22 - 5)
Elite Cavalry takes out red lined Cavalry (23 - 5)
Elite Cavalry takes out red lined Cavalry (24 - 5)
Veteran Cavalry takes out red lined Cavalry (25 - 5)
Veteran Invantry takes out red lined Cavalry (26 - 5)
Changed Bursiris to Galleon. Lose 7 gold. Change Eight to Galleon. Changed St. Regis to Galleon.

IBT – Iroquois declared war on Inca
France declared war on the Iroquois
We learned Espionage. Start on the Corporation.
Our people want us to build the intelligence agency.
Our people want us to build the Secret Police HQ.
Lomax produced Cavalry. Start on Artillery.
Bad Tibira Road Created Temple. Start on Artillery.
Four produced Artillery. Start on another Artillery.
Five produced infantry. Start on Iron works.
St Regis produced Galleon. Create another galleon.
Busiris produced Galleon. Start frigate.
Final Frontier created Frigate. Start Galleon.

10) 1490 AD – Redline inca frigate with artillery.
Elite Privateer enslaves Inca frigate creating another privateer. ( 27 - 5)
Landed another army in the east near inca's capital.

119831

bobbabooey, you forgot that tominator didn't play his tenth turn.


what the hell i was thinking
- tried to build markets to fix money issues
- tried to build temples to plug culture holes
- am tired and will yield last 1.5 turns to next in line rather than wait a day


You were probably supposed to play eleven turns this time, but only played ten. zerksees will probably play eleven next time. Also, I have some comments on your turn.


IBT – Iroquois declared war on Inca
France declared war on the Iroquois
We learned Espionage. Start on the Corporation.
Our people want us to build the intelligence agency.
Our people want us to build the Secret Police HQ.


Well, the Iroquois are dead. Declaring war on the Inca was like pressing a self-destruct button. :bump: The Inca will take that Iro city on the on the other continent very quickly. If you don't have any per turn deals with Iroquois, you could declare war and take Niagra Falls and Allegheny, and Iroquois are out of the game. BTW, why didn't you start int. agency in one of those cities that built something that turn?

10) 1490 AD – Redline inca frigate with artillery.
Elite Privateer enslaves Inca frigate creating another privateer. ( 27 - 5)
Landed another army in the east near inca's capital.


A screenie would be nice to show us how close Cuzco is to the coast (and if there are nearby core cities you could raze :D). If you guys don't have Ironclads, you might want to get it so you can pillage the inca's shores. Frigates could also do this job.

nice job bobbabooey. A leader, a couple more privateers, all our stuff is upgraded, TOE and two free techs, and the Inca empire starting to have trouble with their infrastructure. :p

Don't worry about the industrialization thing. It might actually take more beakers for industrialization vs. espionage anyway. The game should have allowed you to pick espionage so if you care you can go back and try it again. Getting TOE and the two free techs was important. Waiting a few turns for espionage was not that important. Edit: See Choxorn post below - espionage requires industrialization, which is why you could not pick that.

I expected to lose some frigates to their attacking frigates, and losing to redline units once in a while is expected - so overall this was well played also.

It is interesting that every Inca landing was near cheese. How predictable is the AI?

The war with the French is the only possible fallout I see. I consider this point fairly minor right now but we could have avoided having France declare war on us. My favorite way is to sign an MPP with France, then not invade for a turn or two while the Incas invade our lands, forcing France to declare war on them. Since France was behind in tech you may have been able to get them to sign a military alliance against Inca for a tech.

Since France declared war on us it is not clear to me whose rep is ruined - though it may be France.

It is probably just as well that they aligned with the Inca, as this ensures their survival until we need them as a diversion! :mischief: At the right time we will make peace with them and have them join us against the Inca once we need them.

We are more or less at the point where we don't care what the AI thinks anymore, though I might save the rep a little longer in case there is one more tech to buy somewhere.

I might have more comments after I look at the save. I plan to start my turns tonight.

I spy an Inca train wreck ahead. Resistance is futile :borg:

Don't worry about the industrialization thing. It might actually take more beakers for industrialization vs. espionage anyway. The game should have allowed you to pick espionage so if you care you can go back and try it again. Getting TOE and the two free techs was important. Waiting a few turns for espionage was not that important.

Hey guys- Industrialization is a prequisite for espionage. You have to get it before espionage.:p

It is interesting that every Inca landing was near cheese. How predictable is the AI?

Yeah, the AI is so predictable.:D

Since France declared war on us it is not clear to me whose rep is ruined - though it may be France.

Did you have per turn deals with France?:confused:

It is probably just as well that they aligned with the Inca, as this ensures their survival until we need them as a diversion! :mischief: At the right time we will make peace with them and have them join us against the Inca once we need them.


You may not need France- if you get enough Inca territory, you can score a domination victory:D

I have played about two and a half turns so far. Spent a lot of time up fornt reorganizing and changing builds.

Iroquois lost a few cities, two we took and so we own Sistine Chapel again. So far taken out 10 units losing 1, got another leader, got a military alliance with Sumerians vs. Inca to see if Inca can take care of them. Four galleons carrying two armies and 8 artillery on their way to Inca land.

Then If the Iroqouis aren't dead already, they will be very soon, almost surely before your turnset ends. The military alliance was a great way to get rid of Sumer.

Summary:

One new leader in first two turns (we have 9 armies now)
Rampaging French destroy the Iroquois
France has joined us in the struggle against Inca
Rampaging Egyptians sack the Inca capital of Cuzco
Inca in anarchy
Units positioned to wreck another Inca city
Lots of pillaging their tiles, while our tiles are improving
We are well over half the power bar and rising

Next 10:

Lomax you are next

Inca have three rubber sources you should disconnect:
Near Anyang – frigates are headed that way to pillage the tile. They should stay near there to make sure it stays disconnected
Near Ollantaytambo – army and explorers are there to disconnect it next turn
Near Beijing – this one was disconnected once but a cavalry army should go up there to disconnect it again
They do not have replaceable parts yet so if we can keep these disconnected we will not have to face infantry. This is the most important objective, I should have thought of this earlier.

Any units on the Inca mainland not under armies are likely to be attacked and killed. Weak armies are also likely to be attacked. The Inca have a lot of units, but so far they have not used them because they will not attack armies. Last time I checked our military was average compared to them.

Attack Vitcos next, as the artillery are in position to hit it. Then go after Ica.

After those cities are gone and we have enough infantry we can build a city on the hill that is between the two. The AI will attack armies in cities - I don't think I would put the armies in the city. I would keep them outside nearby to attack units as they approach. After the flow of cavalry slows then you can do what you want.

We can now have 4 units in our armies, though I advise leaving at least one or two cav armies with just 3 units until we get transports.

Leave science at 80%, finish steel, go for refining next.

I think I want about 25 infantry fortified on a hill before we build our first city (with artillery backup). I would pick the hill between Ica and Vitcos as our starting point. Maybe near the coal, but we should whack that city on the island first so there is no culture pressure. Have 2-3 extra settlers and some other spare units (maybe our own native workers) along to help speed up the build of walls and barracks. (I’ll explain later)

Use the slave workers to build roads in the Inca territory that is about to be ours – should help with unit movement after the cities fall

Leave cheese open as bait. They keep coming over there but lately there ships just never make it to our shores. I would leave 8-10 arties and a 4-5 cavalry back for defense. The rest can go.

Have fun wrecking the Inca

I will write the turn summary up later – today I hope.

Pre-flight:

Changed a lot of builds
Aqueduct: Memphis, No Zulu Ha Ha, Tomopolis
Cavalry: Abydos, Booey (building an aqueduct when there is no extra food and no room to grow), Buhen, Ibabanago, Nine, Oryx, Pompeii (not going to build a barracks in a city at the base of a volcano), Rocky Top, Zimbabwe Road
Courthouse: Five, Three, Stern
Factory: Gems, Four
Frigate: Stepping Stone, Wines (why build a market when the city is only generating like 5 gold)
Harbor: Umtata
Infantry: Elephantine
Library: New Salamanca, Grrr, Bong
Marketplace: Ulundi
Temple: Mpondo

I am planning on self-research, so we need more libraries in cities making a lot of gold (spying is a backup plan). We need more units for the invasion. We need more armies. We need to get our beachhead established. Pillaging will continue, as we are not ready for war yet. If I can get enough units over there the attacks will start.

Rearrange units – put weak units in middle cites. Start a stack of units to ship in Eight.
Upgrade a few rifles, a musket and a few pikes to infantry
Notice that workers should now be mining irrigated grasslands in the south. The AI has a tendency to irrigate too much. We should be able to increase shield production greatly by that.
Wake up the ships that were fortified near Grenoble. We need them to help somewhere.

We are #1 in mfg goods at 502 megaton, and in annual income at 10 per capita. We trail the Inca in all other relevant categories. Our military is “average” compared to them.

Science will stay at 100% even though we are running a deficit of over 100 gpt, we still have over 4000 gold at the moment.

Bobbabooey has landed some infantry on the Incan mainland. They are with a cavalry army IIRC but they are at the top of the stack. I advise against this at this time.

IBT
On Inca mainland, Infantry defends against cavalry
Second Infantry defends against crusader [2-0] Both infantry took damage, and the army is now on the top of the stack and the AI stops attacking these infantry.
France lands a longbow near cheese
Two: courthouse -> artillery
Buhen: cav -> cav
Booey: cav -> arty
DaBomb: frigate -> market
Oryx: cav -> aqueduct
Elephantine: infantry -> frigate
Fill in: temple -> arty

Turn 1: 1495 AD
redline French longbow with artillery and defeat with elite cavalry
redline French galleon and sink with privateer [4-0]

Decide we have shared our continent with the Iroquois long enough. We have a decent size stack of units waiting to go to war. Investigate Allegheny and find only four riflemen in there (cost 138 gold to investigate). Sell communism to the Iroquois for 100 gold (all their gold). They would have paid 15 gpt but not worth waiting, so I just emptied their bank account and declared war.
Redline the units in Allegheny with artillery.
Defeat rifle with elite cavalry and a leader is born! Immediately convert to an army
It takes four vet cavs to defeat the remaining three rifles and Allegheny is razed gaining six more slave workers [8-1]
Start assault on Niagara Falls. I can’t reach with artillery so I build a city on the border to expand enough to reach. Use arty to redline two riflemen and reduce the city from size 7 to size 1, wrecking the barracks there along the way. This took 17 artilleries, and I had just enough to get them to size 1 – all our artys had been used this turn.
Used one elite cav and one regular cav to take the riflemen and the city is ours [10-1]. We keep this one as it has Sistine Chapel. The remaining citizen is not resisting – he is happy (to be alive I guess). Start on a temple. There was a worker hiding in the city, and another chopping jungle that we also acquired.

Workers busy railroading mined tiles on grassland. Mfg goods up to 526 megaton.

Changed Busiris to privateer from frigate

Put our pillaging armies and explorers to work

I put the damaged infantry on the boat home. They will be back later with their friends.

IBT
No attacks
New Salamanca: lib -> factory
Nine: cav -> lib
Athribis: galleon -> settler
Cheese: market -> temple
Rocky top: cav -> cav
Ibabanago: cav -> barracks
Turn 1 is finally over

Turn 2: 1500 AD
Sell industrialization to Sumeria for a military alliance against the Inca, world map, 104 gold and 38 gpt. They get to live a little longer unless the Inca take care of them first

Fill four galleons with 2 cavalry armies and 8 artillery – destination Inca land!

No attacks

I notice the Iroquois lost Caughnawaga and are now down to one city, Pharsalos, on an island.

Workers busy railroading tiles

IBT
No attacks
France declares war on Sumeria
Thebes: pentagon -> intelligence agency
Umma: market -> settler
Lomax II: settler -> settler
Wines: frigate -> temple
Pithom: frigate -> galleon
Tomopolis Hts: temple -> cavalry
The people recognize the greatness of zerksees and offer to expand our palace

Turn 3: 1505 AD

We own 44% of land and 49% of population. Inca are at 40% and 42%. We have over half the power bar and mfg goods up to 543 megaton. Our score is 2167 and Inca are at 2806.
Cut science to 90%. Corporation still due in 2 turns

France is ready to talk. They will not take a military alliance as part of the bargain. Looks like that will have to be a separate deal. The war will continue for now.

Redline two Iroquois boats with frigates

IBT
No attacks
Inca going for the cheese
Sumer: galleon -> galleon
Tanis: settler -> settler
Rush: cav -> temple
Deer: market -> infantry
Umtata: harbor -> temple
Memphis: aqueduct -> artillery

Turn 4: 1510 AD
More trivia: We now have 66 cities, the Inca have 42, Sumeria 2, France 6 and Iroquois 1.
Sink the two redline Iroquois boats [12-1]
Redline the three Inca boats and sink the Inca frigates costing us two privateers [14-3]. Leave the galleon to see if it will drop its cargo for more elite farming.

Cut science to 80% and corporation still due in one turn.

Workers still busy. Start to mine and/or railroad mountain tiles being worked by various cities. Mfg goods up to 563 megaton

IBT
Lost an unescorted galleon to Inca frigate off the southwest coast. Sloppy work on my part [14-4]
Sumeria and Iroquois sign trade embargo against us. Ooooh
Finish corporation, start on steel at 80%.
Hlobane: galleon -> temple
Eight: galleon -> frigate
Six: galleon -> settler
Busiris: privateer -> harbor (want harbors to help produce veteran boats)
Abydos: cav -> stock exchange

Turn 5: 1515 AD
Privateers sink Inca galleon and frigate after they were redline with arty [16-4]
Pillaging continues
Improvements continue
Transport to Inca lands continue

IBT
More Incan ships go for the cheese
No attacks
Kahun: market -> secret police HQ. This small wonder will reduce our corruption in this city (I think it helps increase the OCN and therefore reduce overall corruption), and this looks like a pretty good city to put it in
Grrr: lib -> temple
Bong: lib -> stock exchange
Ngome Road: arty -> market
Jungle Baby: aqueduct -> cavalry
zerksees: bank -> library
St. Regis: galleon -> frigate
Cheese: temple -> infantry
Final Frontier: galleon -> frigate
Gary: temple -> market

Turn 6: 1520 AD
Pillaging continues.
Troop transporting continues. The Inca can hear the artillery fire as the rest of their improvements near our beachhead are bombarded. I can see I will have a chance to attack Cuzco before my turnset is over

IBT
No attacks
Lomax: arty -> frigate
Ulundi: market -> barracks
Two: arty -> stock exch
Three: court -> stock exch
No Zulu: aqueduct -> infantry
Cairo: market -> bank
Five: court -> stock exch
Athribis: settler -> temple
Booey: arty -> inf
Ibabanago: barracks -> cav

Turn 7: 1525 AD
Turn our artillery on Cuzco. There are at least six riflemen in there. Need more reinforcements which land this turn
Steel coming in 6 turns
We are #1 in mfg goods (600 megaton), population, annual income and productivity (1445)
Pillaging armies coming back towards Cuzco to help with the assault if needed

IBT
Rampaging French give Iroquois the death blow
Niagara Falls: temple -> harbor
Hlobane: temple -> artillery
Nine: lib -> stock exch
Stern: Court -> market
Six: settler -> settler
Lomax II: settler -> harbor
No No Incas: galleon -> frigate
Pithom: galleon -> arty

Out of time - the rest tomorrow

Zerksees:
I have razed 4 cities (3 on the main land, and the 1 on the island)
I do not have 25 infantry on the mainland yet.

Questions:
1) do you want me to drop a city on the Island - I could lock the squares with workers so that the it can't be attacked
2) Do want me to drop the city on the mainland w/o the 25 infantry, everything has been pillaged there are a few (6) inca cavs that I can see
3) the units that you had stacked (cavs, artillery) on the Home land are they for defense or for the invansion

Answers:

1) I do not see much value putting a city on the island. If you put one there put it on a hill and protect it with a few infantry. I would not waste shipping and workers to lock down that island just yet unless the workers have nothing to do. Just make sure you leave 40 slave workers at home to clean up the pollution that will be coming from our factories.

2) My opinion is no. Try putting a unit far from their border unprotected and see how many units show up. The will be a lot more than 6 cavalry. I would expect to see as many as 40-50 cavalry or more. It is hard to tell how many units they have lost attacking the French. If after three turns the flow is manageable then the city can be dropped. Adding cities is not super important. Wrecking their cities is important.

If they drop new cities they will be of little value to them since they will be starting all over with improvements.

No city, wait three turns or drop right away. I will leave it up to you, just don't lose our armies or our artilleries.

3) Leave 4-5 cavs and 6-8 artillery at home. The rest is for invasion.

Also if you want an extra turn or two that is fine too.

Rest of turn log:

turn 8: 1530 AD

Put an infantry into a medieval infantry army on the Inca land
Our stack of doom is building on the hill
Redline Inca ships off our west coast
Take down three frigates gaining one privateer, and our new privateer turns on its former friends and sinks the galleon [20-4]

The time has arrived for the attack on Inca.

I make an attempt to form a funnel, lining up our armies on a line parallel to the coast. The tunnel is not long enough though and cavs can reach the end. I am hopeful there are only one or two cavs in Ica. Drop one infantry at the end of the funnel as bait

We have 21 artillery, 5 cavalry armies and 3 medieval infantry armies on hand
Made peace with France. Then make a second deal with them giving saltpeter for a military alliance against the Inca

Oops in haste an explorer is left uncovered.

IBT
Inca capture our explorer [20-5]
Our bait infantry defeats one cav, fends off another that retreats and loses to a third. [21-6]
Sumer: galleon -> harbor
Grrr: temple -> infantry
Rush: temple -> aqueduct
Zimbabwe Road: cav -> barracks
Wines: temple -> barracks
Pompeii: cav -> cav
Elephantine: frigate -> harbor
Sadly the bait failed to pull any units out of Cuzco

turn 9: 1535 AD
Siege on Cuzco:
Fire the 21 artilley. It is exactly enough to redline all 9 riflemen in Cuzco
Cavalry armies attack and defeat all 9 rifles in Cuzco with no losses [30-6]. The city falls and we raze it. Bye bye Pyramids and Smiths. Remaining armies nearby defeat four cavalry with no losses [34-6]
New slave workers are in disbelief as they road the sight of Cuzco.
Unload some more units on our stack, including cavs to expand our cav armies to four.
Improvements at home continue

IBT
Ulundi: barracks -> infantry
Tanis: settler -> infantry
Mpondo: temple -> artillery
Alps: market -> aqueduct

turn 10: 1540 AD
Inca are in anarchy
We are building infrastructure
Continue shipping units across. Join cavalries to some of the cav armies getting them up to 4 units. Join an infantry to a second med. inf. army. Move units to take Vitcos

My work is done.

IBT
Cavalry Takes undefended Explorer
Bab-tibir completes artillery st another
Umma completes infantry starts another
Busirs completes Harbor st infantry
Gems completes factory st infantry
Buhen completes cavalry st another
Dabomb complet3es Marketplace st infantry
Rocktop completes cavalry starts another\
Oryx completes aqueduct st infantry
Fill completes artillery st another
Bubastis completes cavalry st another

Turn 1
Artillery red units in Vitcos
Army takes 2 RF
Cavalry takes RF – Raze city
Army takes RF and Crusader on rubber and pillage

IBT
Sumerian and France signed peace

Lomax completes Frigate st another
Four completes factory st Infantry
Zeeksees completes library st Infantry
Six Completes Settler St another
Memphis Completes Artillery st another

Turn 2
Ship2 pillage 2nd Rubber source

IBT
Sumerian and Inca have peace
Inca land a training force
We have steel st refining
Eight completes Frigate st another
Zimbabwe completes barrack st infantry
St Regis completes frigates st another
Athrbis completes temple st infantry
Seven completes Artillery st infantry
Booey completes infantry st another
FF complete Frigate st another
Alex completes Temple st Infantry
Alexandria completes infantry st another
Sumerians are building Universal Suffrage

Turn 3
Start bombardment of ICA
Army takes RF
Cavalry takes RF
Cavalry takes RF raze city for 0GP
Cavalry takes Cavalry
Cavalry take Cavalry
Cavalry takes Cavalry
Cavalry take cavalry

IBT
NS Completes factory st infantry
Sumer completes habor st infantry
Jungle Baby completes cavalry st another
Deer completes infantry st another
Tomoplois completes aqueduct st infantry

Turn 4
More pillaging

IBT Sumerian and Inca have singed a trade embargo against us
Another Inca train force arrives
HLOBame competes artillery st infantry
4 completes infantry st another
6 competes settler st another
Lomax 2 completes harbor st infantry
Pithom completes artillery st infantry
Gem completes infantry st another
I complete cavalry st cavalry
New thebs completes infantry st infantry
Giza completes settle st settler

Turn 5
Red line the Atica
Loss to cavalry
Army takes RF
Cavalry take RF
Cavalry takes cavalry
Cavalry take cavalry – elite
Loss cavalry
Cavalry take cav elite
Cavalry take cav
3rd rubber is pillage
Lost Frigate


IBT
Ulundi completes infantry st another
Ngome completes market st infantry
Cheese completes infantry st another
Elephantine c harbor st infantry
Tom c cavalry st another
Helioplos c infantry st another

Turn 6
Army takes RF
Loss cavalry
Army takes Cavalry
Army st on Vicabamba takes RF
Cavalry takes Cavalry

IBT
We have the Intelligence Agency
Thebes st Infantry
Lomax c frigate st another
NS c Infantry st another
No Zulu c infantry st another
Stern c market st infantry
Wine c barracks st infantry

Turn 7
Redline all the units in Atica (for the 3 time)
Army takes Cavalry – raze and sink 4 ships
Army takes 3 rm in Vilcamba
Cavalry takes Longbow
Cavalry takes longbow raze city 3 gp

IBT
Grr c infantry st another
Four c infantry starts another
Zerksees c infantry st another
Inca are building U Suffrage

Turn 8
Frigate takes Gallon
Frigate takes Frigate no vet
Frigate takes Frigate
Frigate takes Frigate

IBT
France want to trade Territory Map- We tell them NO
BAB Artillery St Infantry
Rush c Aq st Infantry
Umma c infantry st another
Six c settler st another
St Regis c Frigate st infantry
Gen c Infantry st another
Buhen c cavalry st another
Booey c infantry st another
Pompeii c cavalry st another
Memphis c artillery st another
Too close c aq st infantry


Turn 9
Cavalry takes cav
Cavalry takes cav
Cavalry takes cav
In a surprising move the AI tries to block my invasion with workers
Not paying for it Twice is founded

IBT
Infantry defends Cav
Infantry defense Rm
NS c infantry st another
Tanis c infantry st another
Buris c infantry st another
Abydis c Stock Exchange st infantry
FF c frigate st infantry
Dambonb c infantry st another
Rocktop c cav st cav
Fill c art st art
Bub c cav st cav

Turn 10
Pillaging
Moving artillery

Battle Ratio 37 - 5

turn 9: 1535 AD
Siege on Cuzco:
Fire the 21 artilley. It is exactly enough to redline all 9 riflemen in Cuzco
Cavalry armies attack and defeat all 9 rifles in Cuzco with no losses [30-6]. The city falls and we raze it. Bye bye Pyramids and Smiths. Remaining armies nearby defeat four cavalry with no losses [34-6]
New slave workers are in disbelief as they road the sight of Cuzco.
Unload some more units on our stack, including cavs to expand our cav armies to four.
Improvements at home continue



Don't forget Sun Tzu's! :D BTW- If you had a 25-infantry stack- Don't you think they could have kept that city and its great wonders?

Tominator2,

You are next. I want your input on how you want to play the next 10 turns.

Choice 1: Do you want to get up 25 infantry, drop the city and fight off the hordes of Incan cavalry and eventually infantry? This will require some creative pop rushing to get the walls and barracks up quickly.

Choice 2: Do you want to continue razing cities and push the Inca further inland?

Choice 3: Do you want to try to get some elites and leaders using some bait to attract Inca units your way?

Let me know so I can put together a plan.

You didn't answer my 25-infantry stack question. Seriously, Infantry are better than cavalry. Though both have 6 attack, Cavalry have 3 defense while Infantry have 10, so Infantry can beat cavalry in offense or defense. Cavalry have their advantages, though- they're faster and cheaper. Infantry are still better, though.

Oh, and, by the way, you said to RAZE a city that has three never-expiring great wonders????? :eek: :eek: :eek: Why?? :confused: If you capture it, you'll get a barracks and granary on every city on that continent, not to mention free maintence for trading related buildings!! True, if you raze it, you'll get slave workers, and you'll start to wreck their core, but the city is a lot better than that! You should capture it!!

BTW- If you had a 25-infantry stack- Don't you think they could have kept that city and its great wonders?
My answer to your question is in post 141. 25 infantry does not change anything.

I prefer cavalry to infantry for invasions for the speed and retreat capability (cavs sometimes retreat at redline). The speed reduces time to the front lines, and quicker time to retreat to heal.

As far as razing wonders is concerned, just having played a couple of SMAC games, I am struck with how mediocre great wonders are in civ3, especially the ones that are obsolete after 1.5 (or less :eek: ) ages or those that are only continents. It's like gambling, the house always wins. Either they get you by repossessing it (culture flip vs. tie down military units) or by beating you to build it (wonder cascade = really expensive library) and it only gets worse at higher levels. I used to really love getting the wonders, but now I see the light. It's better to just build your base facilities and do without IMHO. This is in Civ3 of course, in SMAC, well they kick $$. (of course if they hadn't nerf rushing, wonders might be better :twitch: . More to the point, if they hadn't nerfed the wonders, they'd be better :crazyeye: )

--kmm

Oh- right- culture flip. :( I keep forgeting about that. 25 Infantry could probably quell that restance quickly, though. And cavalry do retreat, but not always, and they don't have infinite movemont except on rails. The redlined cavalry would still be pretty close to cuzco, and those cavalry you have could take some of them out. My point is, with enough units, you could defend the city from military, but not from culture. Hey- where is their new capital? If it's far away, keep some of these cities to save a settler or two, and to save you the trouble of razing more cities if the Inca settle there first. But besides that- raze their cities where it hurts! :mischief: :D

If you feel you really want to capture a wonder city and it could flip, just move your units out after the first turn. Maybe leave one or two to try to quell resistance.

Then if it flips you recaptue, killing pop each time. After a time you will have founded some towns around it and cut it off, reducimg the flip risk.

tominator2 is on skip until his PC is fixed

bobbabooey you are next

The Plan:
Dominate. Send a bunch of units overseas and place them on a hill fortified and let the Inca come and try to knock us off. Training mission to farm elites and leaders. Put a city in the former incan territory. Build walls and a baracks. Have fun!

Before turn: Founded Setup. Joined a settler to the city Making the population size 3. I really did not want to disband a unit so I am waiting until the next turn to force build walls with an army on top of the city. Turned science down to 50% as that is how long it will take to complete refining.

IBT - Incan frigate sinks 1 of our frigates. (0 - 1). Cavalry attacks our new city and our army successfully defends. (1 - 1). We learned refining. Start on Combustion.
Thebes Infantry > Artillery
Two Stock Exchange > Factory
Eight Frigate > Galleon
Four Infantry > Infantry
Nine Stock Exchange > Artillery
Zimbabwe Road Infantry > Marketplace
Cairo Bank > Factory
No No Inca's Frigate > Frigate
Oryx Infantry > Artillery
Gary Marketplace > Library

1) 1595 AD - Turned Science back up to 80%. Combustion ready in 9 turns.
Cavalry defeats red lined cavalry. (2 - 1)
cavalry defeats red lined cavalry. (3 - 1)
rushed walls in setup which costed the lives of 1 citizen.
Elite cavalry defeats red lined cavalry and produces another leader (4 - 1).
Elite Cavalry defeats red lined rifleman. (5 - 1).
Cavalry defeats longbowman (6 - 1)
Cavalry defeats MI (7 - 1)
Joined a slave worker to setup.
defeat longbowman with army ( 8 - 1)
Put a lot of workers on automate.

IBT - Inca cavalry attacks setup unsuccessfully (9 - 1)
Lomax Frigate > Marketplace
Ulundi Infantry > Infantry
niagra Falls Harbor > Library
Three Stock Exchange > Artillery
Jungle Baby Cavalry > Infantry
Athribis Infantry > Infantry
Setup Walls > Barracks
Pithom Artillery > Infantry
Ibabanago Cavalry > Cavalry
Tompolis Infantry > Infantry

2) 1600 AD – Regular cavalry defeated red lined cavalry and upgraded to veteran (10 - 1)
Veteran Cavalry defeats red lined rifleman (11 - 1)
cavalry defeats red lined rifleman (12 - 1)
cavalry defeats red lined cavalry (13 - 1)
cavalry defeats longbowman (14 - 1)
Army defeats MI (15 - 1)

IBT – Sumeria and Inca have sined a military alliance against France. Sumeria declared war on France. We successfully defended setup 6 times and lost 1 infantry. (21 - 2). Lost a frigate. (21 - 3). We completed Secret Police HQ in Kahun > Infantry.
New Salamance Infantry > Infantry
Sumer Infantry > cavalry
Hlobane Infantry > cavalry
Five Stock Exchange > Iron Works
Our people want wall street. Maybe we should give it to them.
Six Settler > Settler
Lomax II Infantry > cavalry
Gems Infantry > infantry
Deer Infantry > Artillery

3) 1605 AD – army defeated cavalry with settler. take 2 more slave workers.
Elite cavalry defeats red lined cavalry (22 - 3)
Elite infantry defeats red lined cavalry (23 - 3)
Elite infantry defeats red lined cavalry (24 - 3)
veteran infantry defeats red lined cavalry (25 - 3)
Elite cavalry defeats red lined cavalry (26 - 3)
regular cavalry defeats red lined longbowman (27 - 3)
veteran cavalry defeats red lined longbowman (28 - 3)
rush barracks in setup
veteran infantry defeats red lined cavalry (29 - 3)
cavalry defeats red lined cavalry (30 - 3)
army takes out cavalry (31 - 3)
army takes out cavalry (32 - 3)
Veteran infantry takes out red lined cavalry and become elite (33 - 3)
cavalry takes out red lined cavalry (34 - 3)
cavalry takes out red lined cavalry (35 - 3)

IBT – Incas want peace. No way! Calvary attacks setup and loses (36 - 3)
Sumeria wants us to leave their territory. We will move our troops immediately.
Thebes Artillery > artillery
Four infantry > infantry
Gnome Road Infantry > Bank
Zerksees Infantry > Wall street
Stern Infantry > Infantry
Setup barracks > Harbor
Alps Aqueduct > Cavalry
Alexandria Infantry > Cavalry


4) 1610 ad – veteran infantry takes out rifleman and become elite (37 - 3)
Elite infantry defeated rifleman (38 - 3)
Elite infantry defeated longbowman (39 - 3)
elite cavalry defeated red lined cavalry (40 - 3)
Army takes out 2 redlined rifleman (42 - 3)
got a little sloppy with pillaging explorers. gonna lose 1 as it is abandoned outside of the army.

IBT – Lost 2 frigates (42 - 5)
Grrr Infantry > infantry
No Iroquois Infantry > Marketplace
No zulu ha ha Infantry > Infantry
Booey Infantry > Cavalry
Tompolis Cavalry > Cavalry
Giza Settler > Galleon
our explorer is captured (42 - 6)

5) 1615 AD – Army takes out rifleman (43 - 6)
Army takes out longbowman with settler underneath (44 - 6) and 2 more slave workers.
Rush an explorer in setup.
Elite Cavalry defeats red lined cavalry. (45 - 6)
Elite Infantry defeats red lined rifleman (46 - 6)
Army defeats red lined cavalry twice (48 - 6)

IBT - New Salamanca Infantry > Infantry
Bong Stock exchange > cavalry
Umma Infantry > infantry
Mponda aritillery > Library
Nine Artillery > artillery
Six Settler > Bank
Seven Infantry > Cavalry
Cheese Infantry > Infantry
Memphis Artillery > artillery

6) 1620 AD – Army takes out rifleman and we acquire a treb. (49 - 6)
Army takes out rifleman (50 - 6)
elite infantry takes out red lined cavalry (51 - 6)
infantry takes out red lined cavalry (52 - 6)
regular infantry takes out red lined cavalry (53 - 6) promoted to veteran
Elite cavalry takes out red lined cavalry (54 - 6)
Elite infantry takes out red lined cavalry (55 - 6)
Elite infantry takes out red lined cavalry (56 - 6) and another leader is born.
Elite infantry takes out red lined rifleman (57 - 6) and yet another leader is born back to back.
created 2 regular infantry armies.
Elite cavalry takes out red lined longbowman (58 - 6)
founded Walker

IBT - Lost 2 galleons to enemy attacks (58 - 8)
Thebes Artillery > artillery
Unundi Infantry > Infantry
bad tibira road Infantry > infantry
Eight Galleon > frigate
Four Infantry > Infantry
St Regis Infantry > Marketplace
Gems Infantry > Infantry
Abydos Infantry > University
Buhen Cavalry > Cavalry
Pompei Cavalry > Cavalry
Elephantine Infantry > galleon
Stepping Stone Infantry > frigate
Fill in artillery > Artillery

7) 1625 AD - Switched Cheese, Wines, Deer, Bong, Pithone to galleon
Elite Cavalry defeats red lined rifleman (59 - 8)
Force barracks in Walker
Elite Cavalry defeats longbowman (60 - 8)
Elite Infantry defeats MI (61 - 8)
Veteran cavalry defeats red lined rifleman (62 - 8)
regular cavalry defeats red lined cavalry (63 - 8)
cavalry defeats red lined cavalry (64 - 8)
cavalry defeats red longbowman (65 - 8)
army defeats cavalry (66 - 8)
army defeats red lined rifleman (67 - 8)

IBT – kahun infantry > infantry
Three Artillery > artillery
Hlobane cavalry > galleon
Rush Infantry > infantry
Walker Barracks > walls
athribis infantry > Marketplace
Wines Galleon > Galleon
Pithom Galleon > galleon
deer galleon > galleon
da bomb infantry > infantry

8) 1630 AD – cavalry defeats red lined rifleman (68 - 8)
Army defeats red lined rifleman (69 - 8)
Army defeats red lined rifleman (70 - 8)
founded the city of take over
Cavalry takes out red lined cavalry (71 - 8)

IBT – we learned the secret of combustion. Start on Mass production.
Lomax Marketplace > Infantry
New Salamanca > Infantry
Jungle Baby Infantry > Infantry
Zimbabwe Road Marketplace > cavalry
No No inca's Frigate > Frigate
Setup Harbor > Temple
Not paying for it twice temple > Harbor
RockyTop Cavalry > Cavalry
Oryx Artillery > artillery
Ibabanago cavalry > cavalry
bubastis cavalry > cavalry
tomopolis Infantry > Infantry
Heliopolis Infantry > Infantry

9) 1635 AD - Army defeats red lined rifleman (72 - 8)
Army takes Machu picchu and we take over the colossus. We acquire 3 more workers and a cannon. (73 - 8)
Elite Infantry defeats red lined cavalry (73 - 8)
infantry defeats longbowman (74 - 8)
Cavalry defeats longbowman (75 - 8)
Cavalry defeats longbowman (76 - 8)
cavalry defeats longbowman (77 - 8)
Upgraded gallion to transport for 75 gold.
Elite Cavalry defeats longbowman (78 - 8)
cavalry defeats longbowman (79 - 8)
Cavalry defeats longbowman (80 - 8)
regular cavalry defeats longbowman (81 - 8) and gets promoted to veteran
cavalry defeats musketman (82 - 8)
regular cavalry defeats longbowman (83 - 8) and gets promoted to veteran
cavalry defeats longbowman (84 - 8)
cavalry defeats rifleman (85 - 8)
cavalry loses to mi (85 - 9)
cavalry defeats longbowman (86 - 9)
cavalry defeats MI (87 - 9)
cavalry defeats MI (88 - 9)
veteran cavalry defeats red lined rifleman (89 - 9)
Army defeats 2 rifleman (91 - 9)

IBT – Spread our guys out a little too thin. Lost 3 cavalry, 3 infantry, a frigate and a galleon (91 - 17)
Thebes Artillery > artillery
Sumer Cavalry > cavalry
four infantry > infantry
nine artillery > artillery
Lomax II Cavalry > cavalry
busiris infantry > infantry
booey cavalry > cavalry
Final Frontier infantry > infantry
gary library > cavalry

10) 1640 AD – upgrade 2 galleons to transports @ 75 gold each
army defeated longbowman (92 - 17)
elite cavalry defeated red lined cavalry (93 - 17)
elite cavalry defeated red lined cavalry (94 - 17)
army defeated cavalry (95 - 17)
elite cavalry defeated red lined rifleman (96 - 17)
elite cavalry defeated red lined musketman (97 - 17)
cavalry defeated red lined rifleman (98 - 17)
cavalry loses to red lined musketman (98 - 18)
cavalry loses to same red lined musketman (98 - 19)
infantry defeats the red lined musketman that was giving us troubles (99 - 19)
cavalry defeats longbowman (100 - 19)
cavalry defeats longbowman (101 - 19)
army defeats longbowman (102 - 19)
army defeated rifleman (103 - 19)
cavalry defeated longbowman (104 - 19)

IBT – Tanis Infantry > Infantry
stern Infantry > infantry
gems infantry > infantry
Alexandria Cavalry > cavalry

11) 1645 AD – founded avaris start on walls
army defeated longbowman (105 - 19)
Army defeated longbowman (106 - 19)
infantry defeated rifleman (107 - 19)
cavalry defeats red lined rifleman (108 - 19)
cavalry defeats red lined cavalry (109 - 19)
cavalry defeats red lined rifleman (110 - 19)
army defeats 2 rifleman (112 - 19)
cavalry defeats red lined rifleman (113 - 19)
cavalry defeats longbowman (114 - 19)
cavalry defeats longbowman (115 - 19)
cavalry defeats longbowman (116 - 19)

IBT - condensing write up. Produce war units in 7 cities

12) 1650 AD – defeated 3 units and razed a city (119 - 19)
defeated 2 units and razed a city (121 - 19)
defeated 5 units and razed city (126 - 19) yeilded 13 workers.
defeated 4 units (130 - 19)
elite cavalry created another leader.
defeated 3 units (133 - 19)

Zerksees is up next.

121059

If we can keep up 5:1 win-loss ratio the Inca won't last long.
4 leaders! Sweet. I plan to play tomorrow.

Wow!!! more than 150 battles in one turn- and less than 20 were lost!! amazing! :goodjob: :thumbsup: :worship: :clap: :bday: :band: But I have two questions. Inca and Sumer signed a military alliance against France. Since when were france and inca at war? This is more of a question for zerksees, but it's still a question: why, after all this time, do you not have the Military Academy built? Also, knowing exactly how many armies you have would be nice (I'm curious).

We have at least 10-12 armies. Download the save and check it out.

At this point we do not need the military academy. By the time it will be built the game will be almost over. That wonder allows building armies right? It takes a lot of shields. Since you can't cash rush them in communism it has little value, particularly since the Inca are already on the rocks.

I have played to the middle of turn two and already have taken 7 more cities from the AI. The Inca are no match for us and we will just chew them up for a little while and it will be over. I'm at 44-10 right now, and most of the losses are privateers and frigates.

Yes, I think I will check out the save. But how do I? I downloaded the file, but I don't know how to get it on the CD. Help? Anyway, what I was going to say earlier, about the game. Forget the Military Academy. You have enough armies already!At this rate, you'll get a very quick domination victory! BTW-- it might interest you to know that the ratio of wins and losses last turnset wasn't 5-1; it was 7-1-- a substantial difference! Also-- I meant to ask this question last time-- why did bobbabooey play 12 turns?

Find the "saves" folder on your PC put it there. I assume you know how to download it. Do a windows search for a game you recently saved to find the folder.

If you can't find it, put the save on the root of your C drive, then go to the "load game" option in C3C. Instead of selecting a game, there is an arrow of something at the top of the list you can use to move up the directory structure. After going up several levels you will be at the root on you c drive and you will see the save.

I have said a few times that we are out of sequence and authorized an extra turn or two. If you check F8 you will see 1650 AD has a turn # that ends in 0 (like 320 or so out of 540 turns in the game). tominator2 did not play 10 every time so we were off a couple turns. If you watch a lot of succession games you will get to know what years the turns should end in when you play 10 turns a person. This is a minor point really so I did not worry too much we were out of synch. He was just having fun wrecking the AI and knew those two extra turns were there and he chose to use them.

Yes 7:1 is better. The point is we are all paying attention to these ratios, and can see how we are doing. I suppose I could have said "at 5:1 or better". This was more of an "order of magnitude" comment rather than a specific number. The difference between these two numbers is only a couple extra turns at this point in the game.

Thanks! But I have a problem now. Whenever I try to load the game, it says "Datal0 operation system error" followed by "CNSL", "DATE", or "PGLI". Then it says something about error and not reading the file or something. What's going on?

First I assume you have Civ III Conquests. If you don't it won't work.
What version of Conquests are you on? It should be on the lower left of the load screen. This game is patch 1.22.

If you are on 1.00 I strongly recommend getting the patch and downloading. Games from prior patches are not compatible with 1.22, so make sure you finish any games you want to finish before applying the patch. There are links somewhere on this site for the patch.

Update: We have 14 armies currently, I have taken 14 cities and 74-11 is the total for me on this turnset. I am in the middle of turn 4. By my count the Inca have 19 cities left.

:D yay! Now I just half to find one of those links. I think there's one in the FAQ. 14 armies? Wow, you guys are getting leaders really fast. Then again, you do have Heroic Epic.

AARGH! :mad: :aargh:Every time try to download the patch, it says "an unknown error is preventing download of the file" ! It's so irritating! [pissed] Can you tell me what's wrong?

File server problem (http://forums.civfanatics.com/announcement.php?f=67&a=393), I assume.

An interesting problem. Why was the date on Thunderfall's post from March 28 to April 29?

Pre-flight

I see our leader in the open, so I put some infantry on top to protect
Found four or five ships full of units in Giza - send them northeast to Setup. There were other ships empty in Giza. Since we gained silks we can reduce the military police in cities, plus there are other units standing around, so we fill the remaining ships with units and send them too - 32 units total
Move army with only 3 hitpoints to safety
Move army out of Macchu Pichu
Awaken some workers to prepare for transport to new world next turn
Change builds: Too Close to harbor, Memphis to factory, Lomax to aqueduct, Thebes to factory, Deer and Giza to destroyer

Check diplomacy. We have no deals with Sumeria. Who cares anyway? We declare war on them. Use our artillery to redline their two rifles and drop city size to 6, then defeat rifles by two cavalry [2-0]. Der is ours and our continent is free of AI trash again (+1) <- this will be the city count
Start starving out the Sumerians

Decide diplomacy is no longer relevant. It's time for dirty pool. Make peace with Inca collecting a worker, Shantung and Besancon. (+2) and (+3). Immediately abandon them as they are not defendable on the IBT.

The Inca are in fascism right now.

Going to build units and do as much damage as possible
Goal: Take seven cities

IBT
We lose an explorer, Incas lose 4 cavs and a med inf attacking our cavs and infantry [7-1]
We build a frigate, a cav and 4 infantry. From now on almost all builds will be war units

Turn 1: 1655AD

Change a few cities to build settlers

Bobbabooey has landed a force on the former Chinese island. I put it to work on Tatung. Use arty to redline rifles, use inf army and cavalry to take out two rifles, but the city still holds. [9-1]

Put the attack on Huamanga. Can't reach with artillery but can reach with armies. 2 cav armies and a nearby infantry army finish off three rifles inside and the city falls [12-1] (+4) Sell off improvements inside for 165 gold.

I am keeping the cities now. Not sure I like it but with so many units around any flip will cause only a minimal delay

Upgrade three galleons to transports for 225 gold. Every turn I tried to upgrade at least a couple galleons to transports. I also took every chance to upgrade captured enemy cannons or trebs to artillery

Clean up a couple stray longbows and rifleman [15-1]

Place settlers with escorts to put us in range of Tiawanaku and Corihuayrachina so we can hit them next turn

Going to send armies up north, and send cavs, infantry and artillery to the east.

IBT
Lost a frigate [15-2]
Build three artillery, a transport, a harbor and four settlers

Turn 2: 1660 AD

These turns are long

Avenge our frigate [16-2]

Complete the capture of Tatung - redline rifle and cav inside then eliminate them [18-2] (+5) This city will be razed - can't recall if I kept it for a turn to make it easier to reach the next city.

Clean up strays: 4 rifle, 1 longbow [23-2]

Siege on Coriwhatever: Redline units inside with arty, then send in 3 vet cavs to defeat three rifles and the city falls [26-2] (+6)

Send cav armies to Shanghai - wipe out two rifles and the city falls. [28-2] (+7) Wow I overestimated the Inca as I already have taken seven cities

Naval maneuvers near China island go badly. Two frigates bombard and send in four privateers. Only one survives creating a new privateer. Send it in and it sinks [29-6]

More strays: 7 longbows and 4 rifles down costing a regular cav. [41-7] Benn working the healthy elite cavs but no leader yet.

Placing workers near front lines with infantry escorts to build roads. Also putting up railroads to front lines. Been shipping over as many units as possible with galleons and transports

IBT
Infantry under attack. Lose 2 to cavs but defeat three crusaders [44-9] This could have been a lot worse as he had a stack of about 15 right next to my stack but did not hit it with everything. A little explorer bait could have something to so with that.
Build a few markets, a bank and infantry and cavs. Started a couple barracks

Turn 3: 1665 AD

Clean up a couple stray rifles
Naval maneuvers bad again - take a frigate and lose a frigate and privateer. A pesky redline galleon remains. [47-11]

Put settler 1 south of Coriwhatever then abandon it so I could move closer to Arequipa. Founded Edfu and the siege begins. Redline the units inside with arty then 3 rifles sink, we loase a cav and Arequipa falls. (+8) We raze this one. [50-12]

Similar siege on Tiawanaku. Take out 6 rifles and a lognbow with no losses. [57-12] (+9) Raze the city and Copernicus burns

Clean up a couple stray cavs defeat cavs and generate a second leader [59-12]. Army #14 is created

Cav armies attack Ollantaytambo. Cav armies take out four rifles and the city falls. [63-12] (+10) Raze the city and Newtons burns.

Cleanup - four more Inca cavs [67-12]

Cut science to 20% and mass production in 1 turn

IBT
Lost a few slave workers. I am a little careless because we have so many
Start motorized transportation
Complete aqueduct, 2 cavs, a market and an arty

Turn 4: 1670 AD

In CrpMapStat, notice we are at +220 cpt, Inca are at +61 cpt. Somehow the OCC Sumerians are at +102 cpt.

Macao has one rifle - it falls (+11)
Attack Canton. After artillery redline units and reduce city from size 7 to 6, 3 vet cavs defeat three rifles and a regular cav takes out a longbow. The city is ours. I am proud to announce that we own the "Pro Football Hall of Fame" (+12)
Army defeats two rifles, Juli falls (+13)
Army defeats two rifles and Grenoble is ours (+14) [76-12]

Inca have 19 cities left, France and Sumeria have one each. We have over 75.

Attack Sparta. Cav armies and a cav sink the two rifles and cav inside and the city falls. This is a key take as this city is connected to the remaining cities by rail. The cities should fall a lot faster now. (+15) [79-12]

Clean up stray units. There is one large stack and a lot of other free units. I used some artillery, 7 elites (no leaders) and various others to take out 8 riflemen, 7 cavs, 5 longbow, 1 med inf and 1 crusader. Lost a regular infantry and a regular frigate which sank attacking a redline galleon. [98-14]

Land some units on the island next to Rouen. I had filled a couple transports and sent them over here. I only have about four artillery, some cavs and infantry for defense

I kept all the cities we took this turn.

IBT
Infantry withstand two cav attacks [100-14]
Seven cities complete builds and start on cavalry. Five complete builds and start on settlers

Turn 5: 1675 AD

Siege on Rouen. Artillery don't do too well. Send in attackers - take out two units losing six. [102-20]
Armies defeat two riflemen and Andahuaylas falls (+16)
Elite cavs defeat two redline rifles, another leader is born and Caughawaga falls (+17)
Clean up a couple stray rifles with a cav and an army
Put artillery to work on Athens, then use elite cavs to defeat three rifles, and a regular cav to take out the last cav - and Athens is ours. (+18)
Cavs defeat two rifles and Corinth falls (+19)
Thermopylae's three defending rifles and one cav fall to our cavs and we own another city (+20)
Two rifles fail to defend and Marseilles falls (+21).
Another stray rifleman falls
Two rifles fail to protect Lyons. (+22) [123-20]

I am out of artillery for this turn

I get the idea I can finish this game next turn
Go to homeland and change a bunch of cities to produce settlers next turn wasting 374 shields.

Attack on Orleans. Cav army goes down from green to one hit point but takes rifleman. Vet cav takes the other and Orleans falls. (+23)
Two armies finish two rifles and Rheims falls. (+24) [127-20]

Put two settlers in place to move on some of the remaining cities. These are combat settlers.

IBT
Lost an infantry and a cav on counter attacks [127-22]
Completed builds on 15 settlers
The people love zerksees and offer three palace expansions! Our palace is done.

Turn 6: 1680 AD

Check mapstat - we need 93 tiles to reach domination

I will be using artillery whenever possible to soften up enemy units for the remaining attacks

Founded El-Armana gaining 9 tiles
Try again on the island. Use arty then take rifle and cav and Rouen falls gaining 9 tiles (+25)
Clean up three stray rifles and a cav with no losses [133-22]
Two elite cavs take down 2 rifles and Hangchow falls [135-22] (+26)
Tsingtao I can't reach with arty. Last turn I positioned cavs, a cav army and inf army in range. Took out two rifles and a longbow costing one cavalry [138-23] (+27). Tsingtao is ours and 10 more tiles

Cav army attacks 2 rifles and a longbow and Chartres falls. (+28) 11 more tiles

Vilcas is next. Med inf armies take 2 rifles, and cavs take the other two [145-23] (+29) 14 more tiles - 29 to go

Next is Tientsin. 3 cavs take 3 rifles, then it takes two cavs to finish the longbow [149-24] (+30) 10 more tiles

Running out of artillery

A med. inf army and cav defeat two rifles and Taboccocha falls (+31) 9 more tiles [151-24]

Knock off a stray cav
Bring six settlers across the ocean

Found End of the Road to allow passage across the mountain pass. 8 more tiles

Cav army defeats two rifles and Tours is ours. (+32) [154-24] We now have enough tiles to win domination victory.

I tried to take Chinan but there were at least six units in there and we did not have enough forces on the island to take it. Artillery fire revealed this. So instead of attacking I retreated the army and a rifle

The mountains will not allow the troops to reach the last two cities on the Inca main continent. I put diplomacy to work - making peace with the Inca collecting Nasca (+33), Avignon (+34) and Kahnawake (+35). This gives 27 more tiles for insurance against a culture flip

In addition to reaching the limit, they have been blown off the continent.

We haven't lost yet!

IBT
Sumer has a longbow near Rouen. It attacks our cav in Rouen and loses [155-24]
Inca nad France make peace
We built a lot more stuff
The game is over - we win!
History will remember us as Cleopatra the "magnificent"

I guess I overestimated the power of the Inca here these last 6 turns.

Nice game guys. Maybe we'll do it again in the fall at the next level.

After the game ended I did a final save at the start of 1685. That save is attached for anyone who wants to look at it.

Does it always wait until the turn after you get the requirements for domination for you to get a win by domination? I've never won by one and I'm curious. BTW, The ratio of wins-losses is about 6.5 to 1. bobbabooey's ratio at both the beginning of his 7th turn and at the end of his turn was 7 to 1, so he did better than you in both places :p Although this might not be something worth posting, I'm just putting it in for people who might be interested.

Hey! I downloaded the patch and it worked! But now, my computer won't read my civ3 conquests disc! Does this have anything to do with the download?

Victory conditions are always done on the in-between turns AFAIK.

Try posting on the tech support forum - that problem does not sound familiar to me. Obviously everyone on the team is working with C3C and patch 1.22.

Hey! I downloaded the patch and it worked! But now, my computer won't read my civ3 conquests disc! Does this have anything to do with the download?

The patch changed the security check to SecuRom 4.8.x. IIRC it added some checks for blacklisting. So I would suspect it found a tool on your sysytem that is blacklisted.

Okay- I have no idea what SecuRom or Blacklists are. I think I'll take zerksees advice and post this problem in the tech support forum.

P.S.
What does AFAIK mean? It's one of several acronyms on this site that isn't in the list of commonly used acronyms (like IIRC and IMHO).

P.P.S.
I would also like to know the meaning of IIRC and IMHO.

vmxa - did you ever finish your version of this game?

AFAIK, IIRC, and IMHO still not known...

AFAIK, IIRC, and IMHO still not known...

AFAIK = as far as I know
IIRC = if I remember correctly
IMHO = in my humble opinion

thanks! I wonder why these acronyms (and OCN which I know means Optimal City Number) aren't in the list of commonly used acronyms.

thanks! I wonder why these acronyms (and OCN which I know means Optimal City Number) aren't in the list of commonly used acronyms.
Probably because they aren't specifically Civ-related. They're in common use in emails, chat rooms and message boards of all types. :)

vmxa - did you ever finish your version of this game?

No I stopped after I eliminated all but the one. I think it was the Inca or are you guys the Inca, I forget.

I do remember that I cleared off the big island near them and some of the other islands and decided I really did not want to spent the effort to invade.

Probably because they aren't specifically Civ-related. They're in common use in emails, chat rooms and message boards of all types. :)
OCN is. At least, I think ;)

The game is over - we win!
History will remember us as Cleopatra the "magnificent"

man, miss one turn cuz your motherboard dies and zerksees wins the game. :lol:


I guess I overestimated the power of the Inca here these last 6 turns.

it's a shame the ai doesn't know enough to give up.


Nice game guys. Maybe we'll do it again in the fall at the next level.

woot!

Nice work team!