The persistent turn-based server program for Civilization IV, also known as PitBoss, is now available for download. Here is a description of PitBoss from the Info Center:

The Pit Boss persistent turn-based server will allow for players to play as long as they like and leave when they like without disrupting the game. Players can also fill in for AI players and join when they like (so it is possible to jump in right in the middle of a game and take an AI's role). The server will download the current game state, then a player takes their turn and the server afterwards saves for the next player. It is like playing a streamlined version of play by e-mail or hot seat multiplayer.

To run a PitBoss server, download the file, extract the PitBoss.exe to your main Civ4 directory, then run it. You will be asked to supply a SMTP email login, select type of the game (DirectIP, LAN, or Internet), choose the game options, etc. Note that you need to have the v1.61 patch installed for it to work.

DOWNLOAD LINKS:
Download PitBoss Application (3.56 MB) from: 2K Games (http://63.236.94.185/2kgames/civ4/civ4pitboss.php) | 3D Downloads (http://www.3ddownloads.com/Strategy/Civilization%204/Servers/PitBoss.zip)

Here are a few screenshots showing the setup process:

Screen#1 (http://www.civfanatics.com/images/civ4/pitboss/PitbossSetup1.gif) Screen#2 (http://www.civfanatics.com/images/civ4/pitboss/PitbossSetup2.gif) Screen#3 (http://www.civfanatics.com/images/civ4/pitboss/PitbossSetup3.gif) Screen#4 (http://www.civfanatics.com/images/civ4/pitboss/PitbossSetup4.gif) Screen#5 (http://www.civfanatics.com/images/civ4/pitboss/PitbossSetup5.gif).

Give it a try and post your experience here.

EDIT: PitBoss officially released on April 13, 2006.

I will be more than happy to try it out tonight when I get home from work.

This is the feature I was most interested in, since it will allow us to make our moves without having to use the email system.

I may have a few questions after using it, so will someone be available here to answer questions or is this just a Review thread?

Thanks for the info.

Just downloaded it and running it.

Will let you know if i find any problems. One thing i do notice though is that it looks like you have to create new random game or load an existing game but there is no Scenario Option. (I had to start my scenario regular way then load it as a save game to play on it)

Also not I am running mine with a Modded version of Civ4 (only games i have current MP saves of where with my mod). I am also using a Direct IP connection test... Will let you know :)

I downloaded it and ran it....
It opens a command prompt, but nothing happens.

I'll assume it's because I'm still running 1.09. Waiting for the next patch.

. You will be asked to supply a SMTP email loging, select type of the game (DirectIP, LAN, or Internet), choose the game options, etc.



What is a SMTP email logging?

What is the difference between DirectIP and Internet?

How do I take over an AI in a game already in progress?
How do I find out the options selected in a game already in progress?
(I wouldn't want to join Huge map, with 1 human and 17 AI.)

Yes this Pitboss is only compatable with 1.52, why would you be still running 1.09? 1.52 is only really a issue in the GS MP lobby, I've heard only a couple people with issues with SP games.

CS

What is a SMTP email logging?

What is the difference between DirectIP and Internet?

How do I take over an AI in a game already in progress?
How do I find out the options selected in a game already in progress?
(I wouldn't want to join Huge map, with 1 human and 17 AI.)

SMTP is Simple Mail Transport Protocal, pitboss would need to know your mail servers address to send notification emails to the players, although this is not a current function in 1.52.

Internet games display in the "PB" column in the MP lobby, DirectIP game do not and you have to tell people your IP so they can join. However, because GS periodically reset the lobby, it's best to give people your IP even if it is a "internet" game as they often will not be able to see it in the lobby if GS drops it.

CS

I have this error message when I tried to run Pitboss. I tried reinstalling but that didn't work

It said

This application has failed to start because boost_python-vc71-mt-1_32.dll was not found.

As you might be aware, I'm setting up the PBEM Enhanced game for Civ4. I was counting on PTBS to be released... so this is a godsend. A few questions in regards to this... as I'm at work, and I won't be home or free to jump on the computer until tomorrow morning...

1. With PBEM, if there are 4 players, all human... do the players need to play in order?

2. I saw 'allow x hours for turn'... so the game will rollover to the next turn automatically after x hours... what if one doesn't log in... does AI play your turn?

3. Is there a limit on the amount of hours you can allow for a turn?

1) yes they have to play in order and remember to hit the End Turn Button.
2) I'd like to know too
3) same as 2 :P

As you might be aware, I'm setting up the PBEM Enhanced game for Civ4. I was counting on PTBS to be released... so this is a godsend. A few questions in regards to this... as I'm at work, and I won't be home or free to jump on the computer until tomorrow morning...

1. With PBEM, if there are 4 players, all human... do the players need to play in order?

2. I saw 'allow x hours for turn'... so the game will rollover to the next turn automatically after x hours... what if one doesn't log in... does AI play your turn?

3. Is there a limit on the amount of hours you can allow for a turn?

1. Since I've always checked "simutaneous turns" I'm not sure how Pitboss handles sequential turn games....feel free to test this, if you haven't figured out Beta release=you are beta testers :p

2. Yes Pitboss handles turns just like a normal MP game, if you don't play your civ in the time allotted then it will roll over and your research and production will continue your units won't move anywere and if you don't have tech and production queued it will just stall.

3. I believe the field for that allows 1-999 hours, if you don't enter a value that is no turn limit and the game turns won't progress until everyone has played there turn as in a no turn limit MP game.

CS

1) yes they have to play in order and remember to hit the End Turn Button.
2) I'd like to know too
3) same as 2 :P

Well if you are right about that the I would never play sequential turn pitboss as it would totally defeat the best reason to use pitboss, the abilility to login anytime and play your turn and manage your civ.

CS

I have this error message when I tried to run Pitboss. I tried reinstalling but that didn't work

It said

This application has failed to start because boost_python-vc71-mt-1_32.dll was not found.


I too got that.. I think you mean it happend durring the instalation of Pitboss though.

Exactly it said
This application has failed to start because boost_python-vc71-mt-1_32.dll was not found. Re-installing the application may fix this problem.

the missing dll error is because you are not running PitBoss out the same directory where Civilization4.exe is located. Move PitBoss.exe there and it will work.

This would be my first multiplayer game as Gamespy has not worked for my computer so far, so forgive me for not having a clue how to work the interface, but what do you have to do to join a game? Does it play as a standard DirectIP game , and Would that mean you would have to know the IP address of the host to join the game?

Maybe if the internet games are not working (it asked for a login when I tried to access it, I don't know if it's GS or not) there could be a thread with games and the IP addressess of hosts who wanted to make games. That way it would be easy to be able to find games that are current without trying to log on to GAmespy

the missing dll error is because you are not running PitBoss out the same directory where Civilization4.exe is located. Move PitBoss.exe there and it will work.


Thanks for answering

This would be my first multiplayer game as Gamespy has not worked for my computer so far, so forgive me for not having a clue how to work the interface, but what do you have to do to join a game? Does it play as a standard DirectIP game , and Would that mean you would have to know the IP address of the host to join the game?

Maybe if the internet games are not working (it asked for a login when I tried to access it, I don't know if it's GS or not) there could be a thread with games and the IP addressess of hosts who wanted to make games. That way it would be easy to be able to find games that are current without trying to log on to GAmespy

Yes to create a internet pitboss game you must first have created an account via the normal Civ4 MP->Internet Games->Create New Account.

To join a game you can either look for interent "PB" games in the lobby or hook up with a DirectIP Pitboss game via your forum of choice.

CS

Your quick CS. ;)

Played a game with a couple others tonight via DirectIP. It was quite fun. It probably would of been better played regualry then through Pitboss, but it still worked. I had a few issues (one connection problem and an OSS) and found one bug. I will report them accordingly. :)

Great news - i'm hoping to run this on a small pc I have that acts as a server. Just depends how easy it proves to install.

If any Firaxians are listening - is their a 'minimal' install which just copies relevant files (for a pure pitboss server) to install or will it always need this full install i.e full civ iv install + pitboss exe.

Tals

Any hope of a linux port? (or could it even run in WINE?)

I suspect it'll run in WINE with a halfway decent PC - the requirements for the Pitboss server are apparently very low since there's nothing being rendered, just a few calculations.

Are you supposed to be able to run pitboss and civ 4 on the same PC?

I've tried a few times, each time I setup pitboss, connected to the game, select my civ and then pitboss.exe crashes.

Howdy rowdies!

Will there also be a PitBoss-server for Civ3?

Are you supposed to be able to run pitboss and civ 4 on the same PC?

I've tried a few times, each time I setup pitboss, connected to the game, select my civ and then pitboss.exe crashes.

I have run it fine on my pc running pitboss and civ 4. Note are you using direct connect and if so try using 127.0.0.1 failing that what error is being displayed?

Tals

I suspect it'll run in WINE with a halfway decent PC - the requirements for the Pitboss server are apparently very low since there's nothing being rendered, just a few calculations.

It all depends on what installation requirements the install routine for civ 4 checks, i'll be testing tonight on my very low spec pc - but that is windows 98 not wine.

Tals

How do I join a pitboss game?

As you might be aware, I'm setting up the PBEM Enhanced game for Civ4. I was counting on PTBS to be released... so this is a godsend. A few questions in regards to this... as I'm at work, and I won't be home or free to jump on the computer until tomorrow morning...

1. With PBEM, if there are 4 players, all human... do the players need to play in order?

2. I saw 'allow x hours for turn'... so the game will rollover to the next turn automatically after x hours... what if one doesn't log in... does AI play your turn?

3. Is there a limit on the amount of hours you can allow for a turn?


2. If it's anything like the Dominions 2 (indie strat game) server, then Pitboss would end the turn regardless of whether or not some players completed their turns. This makes the most sense and is a much-needed feature to keep games moving along.

Great news - i'm hoping to run this on a small pc I have that acts as a server. Just depends how easy it proves to install.

If any Firaxians are listening - is their a 'minimal' install which just copies relevant files (for a pure pitboss server) to install or will it always need this full install i.e full civ iv install + pitboss exe.

Tals

Yeah, I hope we can run this thing on a separate machine from the one where we have Civ4 installed, ie dedicated gaming server. :)

It would be awesome to use a dedicated Linux box as a Pitboss !!!

Can't wait to give this a try!! thanks for working on this (and getting the kinks out!)

Can i launch this server in hotseat too ? I just need some way to play scenarios in hotseat... :rolleyes:

This seems to be just like a regular MP game, except that the host doesn't need to have a big memory-eating copy of Civ4 running all day and the turn limits are really long. And quitting doesn't cause you to retire. Oh and you can unilaterally kick people from the Pitboss admin panel :)

I really hope they come out with a Linux version of this. I don't trust Windows to stay up for weeks :)

Will there be a list of IPs that we can connect to, soon, to play against others online?

Also one big request for an enhancement - player specified ports. This and the ability to run more than one instance on a machine would allow Multiple hosting on a PC/Server at the moment someone hosting pitboss will be restricted to one server per network which is a shame.

Tals

Here is my problem:

I set up a PitBoss game following the screenshots provided in the first post. When I get to the end screen where do I go from there? Save? Exit?

I have not been able to get my game to show up in the internet lobby either. I set the game up as "inernet" instead of "direct IP", so I am not sure what the problem is.

They need to provide a slightly more comprehensive guide to setting up your game to show in the MP lobby.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

Well if you can get Civ4 to run on linux with a emulator then pitboss will too, the box says Civ4 requires atleast Win2K(SP1) or higher and it needs dx9c installed.

CS

I am very excited for this. I will test it here in a couple of hours. We should all remember though that is a beta, so don't put it over fire if it doesn't work perfectly yet. Would be nice if you didn't have to install the whole game to get it to work.

Does any one have the mim. reqerments for the server? I know some people have said they are low but is there a readme or any thing with it?

cmonster

I realize this is only the beta version, but is this all the pitboss was inteded for? I thought I remembered hearing that it would keep track of stats and facilitate better real time games and be kinda its own ladder a la Battle.net??

I realize this is only the beta version, but is this all the pitboss was inteded for? I thought I remembered hearing that it would keep track of stats and facilitate better real time games and be kinda its own ladder a la Battle.net??

The built-in ladder idea was a separate idea that never matured. Pitboss was intended to supliment PBEM games in a more real time and flexable fashion.

CS

The built-in ladder idea was a separate idea that never matured. Pitboss was intended to supliment PBEM games in a more real time and flexable fashion.

CS
I agree with you soldier. Pitboss allows a large group of players to play the game on on off, like play by email but much easier.

I can't find a way to set the port PitBoss uses. I fired off a email to the security admin requesting ports 2000-3000, but I am not sure that will work. I know a lot of games, such as Age of Empires III require me to not only tell the game what port to use in the config file, but also what IP external IP to use. Is there a way to tell PitBoss what the external IP is and what port to use?

EDIT: My game is in the gamespy lobby, but It is listed as "Firewalled".
I set both SelectIP = my.ip.add.ress
and Port = PortIKnowToForwardToMe

Thank you for your time,
Arrummzen

I have run it fine on my pc running pitboss and civ 4. Note are you using direct connect and if so try using 127.0.0.1 failing that what error is being displayed?

I was using internet games, the game was showing up in the lobby, and others were able to connect to it.

Anyway, I get the standard XP error message:
Sid Meier's Civilization 4 has encountered a problem and needs to close. We are sorry for the inconvenience.

The information about the error is:
AppName: pitboss.exe AppVer: 1.5.2.1736 ModName: pitboss.exe
ModVer: 1.5.2.1736 Offset: 002935a2

The PC that is running pitboss (and that I was trying to connect from) is behind a router with firewall.

It works splendidly!

A few tips for upgrading:
1. Change the menu item "asp%File" into "File". :p
2. When minimizing, let it be a 'tray icon' instead of a taskbar item. If that would be the case, I'd even use it a.s.a.p.! :)

OK managed to start a pitboss server going and here are some comments/bug reports:

1. Game will run on a PII 300 128 MB RAM Windows 98 SE so very positive re the spec requirements. Also graphics and sound directories can be removed to free up space

2. Whilst in game alt d will set up the email address which is good

3. BUG: If you set the email address this appears to corrupt the password for the player so you then cannot enter the game whether you have set the password or not (I need to do some more testing on this but woul dappretiate someone else clarifying)

4. Positive: No CD check is done running pitboss

Appretiate others findings to clarify.

Tals

I was using internet games, the game was showing up in the lobby, and others were able to connect to it.

Anyway, I get the standard XP error message:


The information about the error is:


The PC that is running pitboss (and that I was trying to connect from) is behind a router with firewall.

Is your Civ IV on 1.52?

Tals

It works splendidly!

A few tips for upgrading:
1. Change the menu item "asp%File" into "File". :p
2. When minimizing, let it be a 'tray icon' instead of a taskbar item. If that would be the case, I'd even use it a.s.a.p.! :)

Out of interest have you in game (whilst connected to pitboss) tried to use alt d to setup your email address - so you get the notifications going out on turn gen. Then try and reconnect to the game. For me this is the show stopping bug - if indeed it is a bug.

Tals

OK tested this further:

Setting Direct Connect
Simulatenous turn
various sizes

1. Joined game, no password (or password take your pick :) )

2. Genned a turn

3. Disconnect/ Reconnect no problem

4. Gen and disconnect and reconnect as much as you like

5. alt d to set your email address so you get notified

6. Now cannot reconnect as it will not accept your password, sounds like the email address is being saved over the password in some form

This is a critical bug IMHO - not sure how this one could have been missed unless it only is in simulatenous turns (which is the use of pitboss IMHO).

tested this on two different machines with the same result :( Look forward to an update or thoughts as the pitboss server itself is pretty sweet.

Tals

p.s I cannot actually see a place to actually amend the player password as it is anyway so this appears to be also missing

I must admit I am a bit dissappointed. From the description it appeared the actual game files would be located on the CivIV online server for everyone in the game to download and play. However, the only way I have found to have the game show up in the online lobby is to have PitBoss running on my PC. As soon as I turn off my PC, the game goes with me. Am I missing something?

From the description given of what PitBoss does, I was thinking you set your game up on the Firaxis PitBoss server and the game was saved there so your opponents could join/download the game, make their moves and save it right back to the Firaxis PitBoss server. I would prefer not to have my PC running PitBoss (waiting on the others to join my game) while I am not at home.

When the final version of PitBoss is ready to go, will there be a Firaxis run PitBoss server to contain our files? If not, I will probably not be hosting games, but instead joining them instead.

Please provide a bit more information on the PitBoss feature. As it stands, what I read is not currently what I am seeing. I know it is a beta and not the final product but I am interested in knowing what features and how the final product is to work.

While I was running PitBoss I logged into the CivIV MP lobby using another name and was able to see and join my game in progress so it appears to work correctly.

Good job. I just hope that I do not have to run my PC continously to be able to host games using it.

The pitboss server just allows you the user or provider to setup a persistant civ iv game. The "server" will hold the game files. In terms of a Firaxis provided server I cannot see that happening, if you want a server you have to provide it. As indicated the spec requirements for the server appear to be very very low so any old bit of kit should work.

So yes in short answer if you are hosting a pitboss server and turn off your 'server' then the game is shutdown as well - it has always been planned to work this way i.e I have seen no indication of an online system you have mentioned, please feel free to correct me :)

Tals

I must admit I am a bit dissappointed. From the description it appeared the actual game files would be located on the CivIV online server for everyone in the game to download and play. However, the only way I have found to have the game show up in the online lobby is to have PitBoss running on my PC. As soon as I turn off my PC, the game goes with me. Am I missing something?

From the description given of what PitBoss does, I was thinking you set your game up on the Firaxis PitBoss server and the game was saved there so your opponents could join/download the game, make their moves and save it right back to the Firaxis PitBoss server. I would prefer not to have my PC running PitBoss (waiting on the others to join my game) while I am not at home.

When the final version of PitBoss is ready to go, will there be a Firaxis run PitBoss server to contain our files? If not, I will probably not be hosting games, but instead joining them instead.

Please provide a bit more information on the PitBoss feature. As it stands, what I read is not currently what I am seeing. I know it is a beta and not the final product but I am interested in knowing what features and how the final product is to work.

While I was running PitBoss I logged into the CivIV MP lobby using another name and was able to see and join my game in progress so it appears to work correctly.

Good job. I just hope that I do not have to run my PC continously to be able to host games using it.


This is how the pitboss server is suppose to be and how they have always said it would be. There is now way they would host everyones pitboss games. You would end up with 10's of millions games out there doing nothing at their cost. Don't worry there will be tons of people setting up servers to use.

I was hoping the server would be Firaxis' and not my own. That was why I wanted a bit more explanation.

As for the millions of files, it would not be that difficult to do. I play on the Dragon Go Server where there are as many games ongoing. You logon, play your turn, then log out. It works very nicely. My experiences there probably colored my understanding of the PitBoss feature. Thanks for the full explanation on how it works.

So what are the minimum specs. that everyone has found able to run as a PitBoss server? I have an old PC running Win98, with a 1.8 MHZ P3. I will have to hook it up to my network and see if I can use it as a server.

I am not sure if the above old PC will run CIV IV though. If it doesn't, is there still a chance the PitBoss feature would work on it? I would not be using the PC to play (I would use the one I am currently using to make my moves).

Lastly, is the CD-check done only at the start of the PitBoss program (or throughout)? I want to be able to run the PitBoss server, pull the CD out and start up my other PC to make my moves from it and forget about the old one. It would only be used as the server.

I appreciate all the help.

I am not sure if the above old PC will run CIV IV though. If it doesn't, is there still a chance the PitBoss feature would work on it? I would not be using the PC to play (I would use the one I am currently using to make my moves).

Lastly, is the CD-check done only at the start of the PitBoss program (or throughout)? I want to be able to run the PitBoss server, pull the CD out and start up my other PC to make my moves from it and forget about the old one. It would only be used as the server.

Someone mentioned that pitboss runs on a 300MHz PC, so it will run on your one, it's also been mentioned above that pitboss doesn't check the CD, so after installing and patching Civ4 and pitboss on your old PC you won't need to put the CD in it again.

I was hoping the server would be Firaxis' and not my own. That was why I wanted a bit more explanation.

As for the millions of files, it would not be that difficult to do. I play on the Dragon Go Server where there are as many games ongoing. You logon, play your turn, then log out. It works very nicely. My experiences there probably colored my understanding of the PitBoss feature. Thanks for the full explanation on how it works.

So what are the minimum specs. that everyone has found able to run as a PitBoss server? I have an old PC running Win98, with a 1.8 MHZ P3. I will have to hook it up to my network and see if I can use it as a server.

I am not sure if the above old PC will run CIV IV though. If it doesn't, is there still a chance the PitBoss feature would work on it? I would not be using the PC to play (I would use the one I am currently using to make my moves).

Lastly, is the CD-check done only at the start of the PitBoss program (or throughout)? I want to be able to run the PitBoss server, pull the CD out and start up my other PC to make my moves from it and forget about the old one. It would only be used as the server.

I appreciate all the help.

A friend of mine is running civ4 on a p4 1.5 little slow some times but it works. So I am sure a 1.8 would be more than enough.

Could someone explain how the AI Take-Over works.

I had some problems with it.

I started a game on another server, using PitBoss. First I set all the players to Human control, and clicked Take-Over AI and turn timer. I set the turn timer to 1 hour, for testing purposes (there doesn't seem to be any way to set the timer to less than one hour).

I went into the game, selected a civ, and ran my turn. I exited, and waited for the timer to expire, so that the AI could do its turns.

When the timer expired, it started over again. I again went into the game, and chose the same civ, to see if the turned had run. Everything was as before, with no AI intervention.

Whether this is related or not, I noticed that the typical "end-turn" button is not available.

When I tried setting the PitBoss setting to all AI controlled and tried to enter, I couldn't get in.

Does this AI Take-Over thing work?

BTW, I did not enter any kind of email information stuff. I left those at the default entries.

edit: This AI Take-Over, does it work only when a human has controlled a civ for at least one turn?

Thanks,

Alanb

Excellent! Looks like I found a use for that old PC in the basement. :)

Thanks again for all the help. Once I get the old PC networked, I will be setting up a few PitBoss games, so feel free to join in if you see an "UglyElmo" game.

Excellent! Looks like I found a use for that old PC in the basement. :)

Thanks again for all the help. Once I get the old PC networked, I will be setting up a few PitBoss games, so feel free to join in if you see an "UglyElmo" game.

One thing that you have to remember, when setting up an Internet game with a server on another machine using PitBoss, is that you can't use the same log-in for both sessions.

Is it possible, I wonder, to have two different log-ins set up? Or is the user limited to one log-in name per purchased copy?

BTW, I have an ancient P3 500mhz machine. PitBoss runs fine on it.


Alanb

Is it possible, I wonder, to have two different log-ins set up? Or is the user limited to one log-in name per purchased copy?

You can set up as many gamespy identities as you wish.

looks like the obfuscate the save files so you can fool with them, I was going to try to figure out what was up with the password breaking when you add an email. If they saved it in XML it would be a lot easier to figure out what is going on.


Thank you for your time,
Arrummzen

so ideally we could play a game to get the first turns worked out than save, load the game on pitboss and continue from there?

looks like the obfuscate the save files so you can fool with them, I was going to try to figure out what was up with the password breaking when you add an email. If they saved it in XML it would be a lot easier to figure out what is going on.

Agreed although having it in the save file makes it a lot tidier. I wouldn't suggest trying to figure how the file has been damaged as any patch will most likely render this format of files incompatible - unless it is a corruption on the writing and the reading has been set fine - possible which may explain how it got missed in testing if they made a last minute change which effected startup games more than running games.


Someone mentioned that pitboss runs on a 300MHz PC, so it will run on your one, it's also been mentioned above that pitboss doesn't check the CD, so after installing and patching Civ4 and pitboss on your old PC you won't need to put the CD in it again.

Yes that was me - just checked the specs PII 300 with 96MB of ram on win 98 se! The game was installed over my network as I don't have a CD drive for the machine, it's an old laptop (good for persistent games as they are quiet) so has no graphics card to speak of. When you install you do have to install directx 9. I've genned a few turns on it and all is fine - what I don't know is if this spec will handle turns in the latter stages but till the sort out the pwd issue i'm a bit snookered for testing any more.

After install I then ran pitboss which promptly crashed - as it hadn't been patched :) Then patched to 1.52 (using the patch file on my pc's machine as I obviously will not be able to run civ iv proper in this thing ;) It then ran fine except for the pwd corruption and the minor display issues that have been described. In the assets directory I tried deleting the art and sounds directories but this is then causing it to crash - when this makes final it would be useful to have a minimal install for pitboss to reduce its footprint (the HD on this pc is very small)

So all in all very pleased with how the pitboss will work - actual working looks reasonably good

Main thoughts are:
1. Fix Pwd issue
2. allow minimise to tray
3. Ability to force a turn (not just a time set one)
4. Ability to amend some of the server settings once game has started:
eg game pwd/ turn limit not sure on the other ones

Would be useful if one of the devs can give an indication of timescale for a next beta release days/weeks/months?

Tals

nb just checked - arts directory did delete - sounds was the one causing the crash. Footprint now at 1gb but could still do with being smaller.

so ideally we could play a game to get the first turns worked out than save, load the game on pitboss and continue from there?

Why do that - I don't think it would work tbh. You would start a game with pitboss. If your buddies are all connected it will play exactly like a MP game in terms of speed - i.e you do not need to disconnect between turns. Where it differs is you can easily disconnect and reconnect and you will get an email (when that aspect works) to let you know a turn is generated.

Tals

1. Fix Pwd issue
2. allow minimise to tray
3. Ability to force a turn (not just a time set one)
4. Ability to amend some of the server settings once game has started:
eg game pwd/ turn limit not sure on the other ones


5. Interesting enough - not sure what the email format is but as pitboss does not know what the server admin email address is (not input it anywhere) not sure what it will say the email is from. In email should indicate at a minimum who it is from and the game name - otherwise if you are playing muliple pitboss games you won't know which one the email relates to.

Tals

p.s in the civiv.ini I see an email address setting so this is possibly where you set the email address for the server side

6. If you are the last player doing a turn (Simulateneous game) it will flash the end turn button to indicate your turn is over - even if you have not completed the turn

7. Force AI - not sure what this does, regardless of what this is set to if you kick a player the AI takes over

Tals

8. Looking in the civiv.ini, looks like lots of amendments and maybe this is where server settings can be changed once a game is running. Auto save defaults to every turn - however autosave is not working so except for the initial map creation save no further saves are being done - unless forced

p.s actually not that many amendments (i.e to change settings such as turn time) on closer look but auto save is there - just doesn't work

I would refrain from setting up an email with Alt D as it apparently corrupts the game likely due to the fact that email notification has not been coded yet, completely.

Pitboss never promised company server games, just that it was comimg sometime in december, there was hardly any info publicly available at all.

As to the AI takeover issue from your description you never tested it at all, AI take over in pitboss is just like it is in a regular MP game, if you quit or retire the AI takes over your Civ, rather than the other option of your civ being destroyed. You just let the turn roll over and the game was just waiting for you to take your turn. If you want to test AI take over, Alt Q(retire) from the game, let the turn roll over, then rejoin the game and the same civ, who will find that the Civ is still there and available to anyone, it will even ask you to enter a new pw for your Civ.

In reality Pitboss is nothing more than a stripped down server app that provides a near-MP game that uses all the same code as MP except that you can set turn rollover time limits.

For those that want to run pitboss on a lower end machine on your home LAN, that will work fine, I've done it for ages in testing pitboss, but one thing you will have to do, is to set the port on the pitboss machine to something other than 2056(you can do this in the ini) and then tell your router/gateway computer to forward all requests for that port to your pitboss server machine. I've done this with a router and set it up with winXP ICS on a gateway computer.

Remeber pitboss is a beta, so there will be bugs and likely features that you want to see. All suggestions are welcome as well as bug reports.

CS

CS - thx for the responses

As to the AI takeover issue from your description you never tested it at all, AI take over in pitboss is just like it is in a regular MP game, if you quit or retire the AI takes over your Civ, rather than the other option of your civ being destroyed. You just let the turn roll over and the game was just waiting for you to take your turn. If you want to test AI take over, Alt Q(retire) from the game, let the turn roll over, then rejoin the game and the same civ, who will find that the Civ is still there and available to anyone, it will even ask you to enter a new pw for your Civ.

Yep not tested much at all other than in pitboss doing the kick and it showed the AI had taken over - was difficult to test without any info on what it was meant to do :) But now makes sense. Sounds like it could do with the ability to retire or retire and let AI take over. But either way its a minor point in the scheme of things.


I would refrain from setting up an email with Alt D as it apparently corrupts the game likely due to the fact that email notification has not been coded yet, completely.


I'm not sure if this was known before but it would have helped to understand this - I spent literally hours on Friday night playing with all of the permuations available (because I couldn't believe this had been missed) - I appretiate that we are beta testing this - but this is a major issue for a persistant server - not even sure how you would hope to run pitboss as it is intended without some form of notification that a turn has been genned.

Port forwarding - yep done this and it works fine. I use direct connect but then I can't really see why you'd do a pitboss through gamespy - these are games that I imagine may go on for weeks if not months :)

I've now stopped any more work on it - unless something additional is posted in here - need the email working to use this thing properly in anger.

Tals

p.s I should add that I am pleased that Firaxis have allowed us to see it even at this stage, it gives confidence that the feature I really purchased the game for is on its way and pretty much as I had hoped it would work. Just be useful to have an indication on when the next updates are likely ;)

5. Interesting enough - not sure what the email format is but as pitboss does not know what the server admin email address is (not input it anywhere) not sure what it will say the email is from. In email should indicate at a minimum who it is from and the game name - otherwise if you are playing muliple pitboss games you won't know which one the email relates to.

Tals

p.s in the civiv.ini I see an email address setting so this is possibly where you set the email address for the server side

I would agree to the minimize to the tray request, and ofcourse take care of the email/pw bug and fix the autosave issue. The ability to force a turn to end before the turn timer has run out would be good and likely not hard to code.

As to changing server settings after you start the game, that is likely a more difficult thing to do, as these are things are drawn from the same MP code as MP games use, and you can't change a pw or game length after you start a MP game either, it's just not something that anyone ever wanted so it didn't get coded.

But ya never know, it doesn't hurt to ask.

CS

CS - thx for the responses



Yep not tested much at all other than in pitboss doing the kick and it showed the AI had taken over - was difficult to test without any info on what it was meant to do :) But now makes sense. Sounds like it could do with the ability to retire or retire and let AI take over. But either way its a minor point in the scheme of things.



I'm not sure if this was known before but it would have helped to understand this - I spent literally hours on Friday night playing with all of the permuations available (because I couldn't believe this had been missed) - I appretiate that we are beta testing this - but this is a major issue for a persistant server - not even sure how you would hope to run pitboss as it is intended without some form of notification that a turn has been genned.

Port forwarding - yep done this and it works fine. I use direct connect but then I can't really see why you'd do a pitboss through gamespy - these are games that I imagine may go on for weeks if not months :)

I've now stopped any more work on it - unless something additional is posted in here - need the email working to use this thing properly in anger.

Tals

p.s I should add that I am pleased that Firaxis have allowed us to see it even at this stage, it gives confidence that the feature I really purchased the game for is on its way and pretty much as I had hoped it would work. Just be useful to have an indication on when the next updates are likely ;)

Email notification was always a planned feature, it just didn't get done in time for this release. But if you set a game to 24hr Simutaineous turns, it shouldn't be hard to run games with every player konwing that he/she just has to play a turn atleast once every 24hrs.

CS

Email notification was always a planned feature, it just didn't get done in time for this release. But if you set a game to 24hr Simutaineous turns, it shouldn't be hard to run games with every player konwing that he/she just has to play a turn atleast once every 24hrs.

You could although with email in the flow of the game will be much quicker - unless you are continually in the game from the client side - but certainly worth a thought and i'll put it to my guys whether they fancy starting a game. Of course the file format is likely to change when they implement the email correctly so you have to play to assume the game is not going to last.

I assume this thread is the best place to post bugs/enhancements?

Tals

Yes any bugs mentioned here will make it back to the people that can fix it.

CS

Does the server 'lock out' players at any point. Just setup a 10 player game and from time to time people are not able to connect (players will be connected in game) - even me within the network. I haven't yet worked out if it is because it won't allow players in when a player is setting up or another reason. I'll keep monitoring but definitelly something strange.

Its on a windows 98 se machine so another reason could be that if I am in people outside my network can't get in and if people are in from outside my network I can't get in. Would that make sense. Either way useful for some thoughts on this and I will post more as the game develops.

Tals

I found a temporary workaround for the change email and get locked out by password issue:
If you didnt have a password set when you set the email, then your password will be:
d41d8cd98f00b204e9800998ecf8427e

If you had a password set already, then unless you have a md5 utility already, download http://www.fourmilab.ch/md5/md5.zip and unzip into some dir..
run cmd, cd to the dir where you put md5.exe and type:

md5 -l -d"your old password"

Eg:
md5 -l -d"test"
gives : 098f6bcd4621d373cade4e832627b4f6

The string you get will be the password you can log in with.
(in case you wondered: d41d8cd98f00b204e9800998ecf8427e is the md5 of an empty string)

There is an easier way :) As long as you have take over AI (I now understand that now). Then you just get the host to kick the player who has corrupted his password he then reenters and sets the password again. Works nicely. As even just going into alt d corrupts it is vital as well.

Now some requests :)

Can we have a last accessed time against each player - that way easy to see which players are checking etc

Also state of their play - i.e have they submitted yet or not - that way host will be able to tell at a glance who is outstanding and chase if necessary, ratherthan having to go in game

Also a set password against a player would be useful that way you coul dlock the game out - particularly if you wanted to open the game to everyone but wanted some reserved slots for friends.

Timestamp on the chat window would also be useful.

That's it for the mo - i'll think of more i'm sure :)

Tals

I see that the PittBoss set up screens ask for Player 0. What does that mean? If I want to set up a game for 5 human players -- do I set it up players 0 through 4 or 1 through 5?

Just a little confused.

You just let the turn roll over and the game was just waiting for you to take your turn.

I'm not sure I understand this.

If the game waits for a player to take a turn, no matter if the timer expires or not, what is the sense of a timer?

I thought it would be that if a player has not taken a turn within the set time, the AI would then take over. Now you're saying that a player has to manually quit for the AI to take over.


Alanb

A couple of requests...

Would there be any way to have a minimum time before a new turn is genned?
An example of where this would be necessary: You and a couple of friends want to start a PTBS game where you all have to play a turn once a day. The only time that you can do your turn today is at 9 AM, but you won't be able to do the next turn until 6 PM the next day. This should be fine under the assumption that you would play one turn a day, but if there's no minimum turn limit, the turn could be genned earlier than 6 PM (if all of your friends play early that day), and thus your planned time of 6 PM would be after the 24 hour turn limit. Even better would be if players could designate that they would like to bypass a minimum (if there is one), so if for instance all of the players are online at the same time they could play a couple turns in a row.

Another thing I noticed, but did not test extensively, is that if a player sends a message to all, anyone who was not online at the time does not get any record of the message being sent. If there's any way that these messages could be broadcasted to a player as he joins, they could show in the Chat Log as "offline messages".

Finally, if there was a way to track whether a player is online or not, other than messaging "Is anyone online?", that would be helpful. But I realize these last two things would probably require a patch to the game itself, rather than an improvement to the Pitboss server, so I can imagine they probably wouldn't be high priority.

If I'm wrong about any of these things, please let me know, as I have not done extensive testing; I've only played with Pitboss a little bit. Thanks!

I'm not sure I understand this.

If the game waits for a player to take a turn, no matter if the timer expires or not, what is the sense of a timer?

I thought it would be that if a player has not taken a turn within the set time, the AI would then take over. Now you're saying that a player has to manually quit for the AI to take over.


It works just like regular MP. If a player does not take their turn in the set amount of time, then the computer just processes all the turns and moves on as if that person did nothing on their turn. Basically, it presses the "end turn" button for every player at the moment the timer expires. You don't lose your seat for failing to take a turn, you just lose that turn.

I'm not sure if the feature exists, but someone should have the power to force the AI to take over another player in the case where a player obviously is no longer playing but failed to actually quit. Or maybe if you miss x turns in a row, the computer takes over for you; but to do it after 1 turn by default would probably be more annoying.

I'm not sure if the feature exists, but someone should have the power to force the AI to take over another player in the case where a player obviously is no longer playing but failed to actually quit. Or maybe if you miss x turns in a row, the computer takes over for you; but to do it after 1 turn by default would probably be more annoying.

Yep, there's a "kick" button on the Pitboss admin panel. Nothing automatic though.

I'm not sure if the feature exists, but someone should have the power to force the AI to take over another player in the case where a player obviously is no longer playing but failed to actually quit. Or maybe if you miss x turns in a row, the computer takes over for you; but to do it after 1 turn by default would probably be more annoying.

The server operator can kick a player, it will then revert to AI. If you had the take over AI set then another player could then join instead

Tals

By the way, I have a request: make PbMain (entrypoint) customizable/overrideable. Possibly with an INI option. That way, we could easily write new wizards and admin panels without replacing core assets. We could add things like remote admin, GUI-less operation, config preset loading, additional admin options, etc.

Also, another nice thing (non-PB) would be the ability to launch Civ4 and auto-connect to an IP+port. Preferably by a command-line switch or something.

I see that the PittBoss set up screens ask for Player 0. What does that mean? If I want to set up a game for 5 human players -- do I set it up players 0 through 4 or 1 through 5?

Just a little confused.

0-4 will give you 5 player slots.

CS

does anybody know what port number pitboss uses, and is it a tcp or udp port ?
so i can get access thru a firewall/router

2056 - not sure whether tcp or udp so did it for both.

Tals

Some more:

network address box is not big enough for some addresses - we have a game going that is xxxxxxxxx.redirectme.net and it won't allow an entry for that size. The best solution would be to make the address box unlimited - no reason to have it limited anyway.

Also would be useful if it could remember the addresses of the last addresses gone to - either by drop down (quick and dirty) or ability for an address/favourites selection.

I still believe the ability to change the turn timer at least is vital

Ability to see which players have submitted on the server screen.

Ability to see when players were last on - useful for tracking if a player is no longer particpating and therefore holding the game up

Question:

If you quit a Pitboss game and let the AI take control of your civ, can you come back some time later and take control back from the AI with your old password?
Or does quiting a game mean that someone else can take control of your civ?

Let's say I'm on vacation for a week and know I can't do my turns manually during that time. In this situation I would set both a technology and a build queue and automate my workers. I also want to be able to let the AI take control of all my units that are not fortifyed in a city. Then when I come back I just take a manual control of all my units and other things. Is this possible in the current Pitboss system?

Not possible in as far as I can see - you would just have to trust that your fellow players left the turns alone - albeit IMHO it is a good suggestion.

Tals

Also, another nice thing (non-PB) would be the ability to launch Civ4 and auto-connect to an IP+port. Preferably by a command-line switch or something.

I very much would like this option. The ideal solution would be something like a .Civ4Connect file that has the server address and port in it (a simple .ini style file like .url files in windows) which if opened would either launch civ4 and skip the splash screens, moving straight to loading the game, OR if civ4 is running, offer to save any game in progress and after saving load the game pointed to in the .Civ4Connect file.

I try to get a few things done on my computer then reward my self with a Civ turn, so I enter and exit Civ a lot during the day. Some method to quickly open a game would be nice.

I play mulitple MP games, so a command line would be a very nice option.

Tals

While ghastly off topic a command line/shortcut for autoloading a mod would be nice too ;).

Also if not mentioned the ability for pitboss to start a modded game.

And will pitboss source come in the sdk?

Question:

If you quit a Pitboss game and let the AI take control of your civ, can you come back some time later and take control back from the AI with your old password?
Or does quiting a game mean that someone else can take control of your civ?

Let's say I'm on vacation for a week and know I can't do my turns manually during that time. In this situation I would set both a technology and a build queue and automate my workers. I also want to be able to let the AI take control of all my units that are not fortifyed in a city. Then when I come back I just take a manual control of all my units and other things. Is this possible in the current Pitboss system?

You can retire and let the AI take complete control, in which case anyone can take your civ as there will be no pw, or you can leave your civ with city and tech build queues and automate your workers and units, and hope you don't get attacked :P

CS

Forgive me if this hasn't been answered. But the turn options (sorry at work)... there is Simultaneous Turns and... what was the other one?

Could someone (probably Mr. PTBS Tals himself :p ) define these?

I read somewhere earlier on that the game halts on a player not logging in? Was this just some error of judgement?

Forgive me if this hasn't been answered. But the turn options (sorry at work)... there is Simultaneous Turns and... what was the other one?

Could someone (probably Mr. PTBS Tals himself :p ) define these?

I read somewhere earlier on that the game halts on a player not logging in? Was this just some error of judgement?

lol i'm not Mr PTBS - just been looking forward to this aspect of Civ 4 a lot - almost didn't buy Civ 4 on the basis of its non showing at release.

Anyway onto the question. The normal way of playing in a Civ 4 game is sequential play - PTBS and MP give you Simulateneous play which makes the game turns far quicker - you're just held up by the slowest player you don't have to wait for each player to do his turn ala pbem play.

Not read that re player not logging in - are you able to point to the post?

Tals

lol i'm not Mr PTBS - just been looking forward to this aspect of Civ 4 a lot - almost didn't buy Civ 4 on the basis of its non showing at release.

Anyway onto the question. The normal way of playing in a Civ 4 game is sequential play - PTBS and MP give you Simulateneous play which makes the game turns far quicker - you're just held up by the slowest player you don't have to wait for each player to do his turn ala pbem play.

Not read that re player not logging in - are you able to point to the post?

Tals

Well "normal" is a matter of perpective :p As to the game halting, that would only happen if the host didn't set a turn limit, with a turn limit the game will always continue.

CS

2056 - not sure whether tcp or udp so did it for both.

Tals

Pitboss uses the same ini setting as the normal game, and it's UDP, but considering how some routers can be problematic it doesn't hurt to open TCP as well.

CS

I have a 2 player pitboss server running right now on a p2 400mhz. Processor usage is steady at around 65-70% with no one connected. When some one connects is spike to 100% for about a have a second when the turn ends.

So far it is working very well. I have it set to no turn limit since there is only two of us. We have each done a few turns and it seems to be working very well.

Correct me if I am wrong but if a third person takes over a computer player is works fine. But when that person lets the computer seems to take back over. Hence it is not waiting for that person to do their turns. Am I wrong?

I noticed I can' type any thing in the message of the day, so maybe that is a bug?

I have a 2 player pitboss server running right now on a p2 400mhz. Processor usage is steady at around 65-70% with no one connected. When some one connects is spike to 100% for about a have a second when the turn ends.

So far it is working very well. I have it set to no turn limit since there is only two of us. We have each done a few turns and it seems to be working very well.

Correct me if I am wrong but if a third person takes over a computer player is works fine. But when that person lets the computer seems to take back over. Hence it is not waiting for that person to do their turns. Am I wrong?

I noticed I can' type any thing in the message of the day, so maybe that is a bug?

1. If you set the game to AI take over then yes that is the way it is suppose to work.

2. What haven't you been able to type in the MOTD? I've not had a problem with any of my messages.

CS

Not read that re player not logging in - are you able to point to the post?

Tals

1) yes they have to play in order and remember to hit the End Turn Button.
2) I'd like to know too
3) same as 2 :P

This guy... but I believe it was incorrect. And thanks very much for the info. Say, you have a look at Enhanced? It will be on the PTBS Simultanous Turns format.

1. If you set the game to AI take over then yes that is the way it is suppose to work.

2. What haven't you been able to type in the MOTD? I've not had a problem with any of my messages.

CS

I just put the information about the processor so people my have a bench mark with an older machine. I can't type any thing in the message box. Just won't let me, try typing and nothing happens (yes the cursor is in the text area).

Oh by the way I think this pitboss server is a great addition to the game, thank Firaxis.

You have to click on the Change MOTD button, it'll pop up a dialogue that allows you to type in a new MOTD.

You have to click on the Change MOTD button, it'll pop up a dialogue that allows you to type in a new MOTD.

Sorry I've played with pitboss to long to realize that that is not obvoius to many.

CS

1) yes they have to play in order and remember to hit the End Turn Button


I think what he is implying is that if you don't hit the end turn button then your turn is lost - its not so clear as the other formats where it is obvious what needs to nudge the game forward. I'd almost want it to ask if I want to end my turn when exiting if an end turn hasn't been done already.

Tals

If anyone is running pitboss on a LAN i'd love to see some specific testing regarding joining a game when someone is joining for the first time - i.e game is setting up and also when they are loading their turn. I suspect connection maybe more difficult at these times, could get better the higher the processor - not sure how possible it would be to increase the retry time to save the possibility of timing out.

Tals

If someone could figure out WINE or the devs could compile it with Winelib or something (dare I wish for native?) and get the server app onto Linux that'd be wonderful. I just don't know anyone that runs a windows server. In any case, it'd be a huge hassle to rile one up and manage it just for Pitboss. At the very least please make sure it gets ported with the Mac release this spring/summer.

I won't be installing this on any of my Windows 2003 servers here as I'm not about to put the game and DirectX on them just for this. I may try to just copy the install files across and see how that works, but I'm not sure that it's worth the trouble to only be able to host one game per server.

If the server gets reset/crashes does the game persist? If so I may consider running it on a spare XP machine. With the security patches coming from MS even a stable server gets reset more often than the length of time that I would like to see the games last, or is this just meant for quick games? I'd like to be able to use it to help manage PbEM style games which normally last for many months.

2056 - not sure whether tcp or udp so did it for both.

If PitBoss would just support a port number as an option when you start it, then you could at least think about running multiple copies on a single server if you have multiple IPs available (by forwarding each IP to a different port on the same machine).

But it would really make more sense to make the port configurable (at least in some range), and let the players specify both an IP and port to contact. It could still default to 2056.

I'd agree - multiple ports would be very useful and also the ability to host multiple sessions. That said I am concerned re possible connectivity issues - which would get worse once you start hosting multiple games.

Not sure why people keep mentioning running these on fully blooded servers - pitboss will work great on the old bit of junk you have scheduled for the waste disposal so load it on that :) However I would agree Linux port would be useful.

You have to click on the Change MOTD button, it'll pop up a dialogue that allows you to type in a new MOTD.


doh...I guess I thought that when you clicked on that to make it change to what you typed in the box. Thanks

cmonster

.. deleted duplicate post ..

If the server gets reset/crashes does the game persist? If so I may consider running it on a spare XP machine. With the security patches coming from MS even a stable server gets reset more often than the length of time that I would like to see the games last, or is this just meant for quick games? I'd like to be able to use it to help manage PbEM style games which normally last for many months.

It is as persistant as your last save - however at the moment the auto save does not appear to be implemented so it is down to the admin to ensure the games are being saved - easy to achieve - just click the save button on the server screen. I would see a pitboss server running for months ala a pbem game but with that lovely simulateneous turn option.

Tals

I see that the Pit Boss server does not require a very high end computer to run. I don't have a junky old PIII or anything lying around to dedicate to pitboss but I do have a second computer that is occasionally used for multiplayer gaming and frequently used for internet access (web browsing, yahoo email) for my wife while I am gaming on the main computer. Would the pitboss server run ok in the background of a mid-range computer while someone is playing Counter Strike Source or some other such high end game?

Here are the specs on this second computer:

AMD Athalon XP 2100+ (1.74Ghz)
Saphire Radeon 9600 256MB
768MB DDR PC2700 333Mhz
80GB Western Digital 7200 RPM, ATA-100

My experience with PitBoss (after 2 days).

-

The Black Roses PitBoss (you've probably seen it in the lobby)

PitBoss is running on my Media PC (Athlon 2200 XP; 1GB RAM; *wireless conx).

0. Under ideal conditions, PTBS seems to run very well. In a couple test games with random players it felt just like a normal MP game (except for the 24 hour deadline which freaked out a few joiners.)

1. *The wireless conx is important as PTBS will crash if the machine loses its conx even for a minute. Unfortunately, this machine does lose connection a couple times per day (due to either DSL or Router reset, or some mysterious loss of wireless connection that requires manually "repairing connection." - any ideas here? If windows knows the connection needs to be repaired why can't it do it itself?).

PTBS needs some exception catching, so whatever process it is hanging on will not lock up the server indefinitely, even after the connection is restored.

2. Auto save DOES seem to be working. PTBS saves after every complete turn/round is finished. That means it saves after everyone has completed their turn for any given round; not after each player has submitted his orders.

In short, so far so good.

Personally I wouldn't run anything like that whilst playing Counter Strike or the like - for one at Turn Gen it has been reported CPU hits 100% so you will feel it.

Tals

Personally I wouldn't run anything like that whilst playing Counter Strike or the like - for one at Turn Gen it has been reported CPU hits 100% so you will feel it.

Tals

Thanks Tals

Im now thinking of getting a cheap $100 off lease 1ghz PIII to run pitboss server, and to play MP3's in my basement rec-room.

Yep seems a good move - lots of use for a low end PC. I use mine as a Teamspeak server as well :)

Big tip :) If you are on a dynamic IP - then this

http://www.no-ip.com/services/managed_dns/free_dynamic_dns.html

Allows you to have a permanent address for no charge - saves having to keep giving out IP addresses

Tals

Yep seems a good move - lots of use for a low end PC. I use mine as a Teamspeak server as well :)

Big tip :) If you are on a dynamic IP - then this

http://www.no-ip.com/services/managed_dns/free_dynamic_dns.html

Allows you to have a permanent address for no charge - saves having to keep giving out IP addresses

Tals

Thanks again. :)

Out of interest does anyone know how big the transfer file will get with a huge game with 18 players on the end game stages. Does the file keep growing?

Tals

What could be quite neat - not sure how easy it would be to achieve but have the game produce an HTML page this page would show:

Current Players - which have submitted which haven't
Their scores
Current Game Turn
Turn to next one

And various others ones. Then anyone could see the current game status.

Tals

Out of interest does anyone know how big the transfer file will get with a huge game with 18 players on the end game stages. Does the file keep growing?

Tals

The file should keep growing. I play massive games, modded to be about 10x that of a standard game.. and the save game hits over 2 meg late in the game.

I have a question about the server. I take it I cannot play Civ (like a solo game) whilst running a PTBS server?

Yep seems a good move - lots of use for a low end PC. I use mine as a Teamspeak server as well :)

Big tip :) If you are on a dynamic IP - then this

http://www.no-ip.com/services/managed_dns/free_dynamic_dns.html

Allows you to have a permanent address for no charge - saves having to keep giving out IP addresses

Tals

OOOHHH nice, thanks Tals!

The file should keep growing. I play massive games, modded to be about 10x that of a standard game.. and the save game hits over 2 meg late in the game.

I have a question about the server. I take it I cannot play Civ (like a solo game) whilst running a PTBS server?

Pitboss has no effect (as far as I can determine) on your running of other games at the same time.

Tals

I'm wondering if their is a password issue outside of the options one. I've had my password 'damaged' a number of times in my own game and a friends and I know I did not go into the options.

Strangely once I tried about 5 times and on the 5th time it let me in - very strange and its a very basic password (i.e not one easily typoed).

Be interested if others are experiencing password issues who haven't gone into game options (alt d or through the menu)

Tals

What could be quite neat - not sure how easy it would be to achieve but have the game produce an HTML page this page would show:

Current Players - which have submitted which haven't
Their scores
Current Game Turn
Turn to next one

I've been working on adding something like that. It should be pretty easy since all that info is exposed via the Python API in CyPitboss.

I've been working on adding something like that. It should be pretty easy since all that info is exposed via the Python API in CyPitboss.

Well if you get your features to work, email me the modded python files and I'll make sure it gets to the developers for review. They don't mind free programming help :P

CS

Wow, it's REALLY rough. This is the beta? Seems like there's a long way to go before it's actually ready to be used by Real People.

I mean, a dos box in the background? A back button that's not greyed out in the first page of the setup wizard. Asking me for some username/password so I can host a game when I've never set up an account anywhere and it doesn't allow me to create an account or even say where I can create one?

And now that I've set up an account, I can't host a game with it and also use it to play a character on my hosted server? ("this account is in use")

Ugh.

Wow, it's REALLY rough. This is the beta? Seems like there's a long way to go before it's actually ready to be used by Real People.

I mean, a dos box in the background? A back button that's not greyed out in the first page of the setup wizard. Asking me for some username/password so I can host a game when I've never set up an account anywhere and it doesn't allow me to create an account or even say where I can create one?

And now that I've set up an account, I can't host a game with it and also use it to play a character on my hosted server? ("this account is in use")

Ugh.

Yes there certainly needs to be a help menu and/or popup help over the fields and buttons. But this is a beta release for a reason. And if you are going to use a "internet" option then Pitboss must use up a login just like a normal MP game(which is were it's code roots are), but there's nothing keeping you from creating multiple accounts and using one just for pitboss, or you can use the DirectIP option which doesn't require a login.

CS

Wow, it's REALLY rough. This is the beta? Seems like there's a long way to go before it's actually ready to be used by Real People.

I mean, a dos box in the background? A back button that's not greyed out in the first page of the setup wizard. Asking me for some username/password so I can host a game when I've never set up an account anywhere and it doesn't allow me to create an account or even say where I can create one?

And now that I've set up an account, I can't host a game with it and also use it to play a character on my hosted server? ("this account is in use")

Ugh.

Are you doing it via the internet pitboss - not quite convinced that one will work - but be interested in peoples thoughts on that. The roughness, well its a server style app so I don't care if it remains rough as long as we get some of the more major issues out of the way.

Tals

I've been working on adding something like that. It should be pretty easy since all that info is exposed via the Python API in CyPitboss.

That would be great - always happy todo any testing you want on it :)

It sort of works. Right now it just dumps an HTML file to disk, but potentially it could have a built-in webserver (easily done in Python) or auto-upload via FTP. It may not work properly on non-simultaneous turn games because I'm using an odd way of getting the player's turn state (on a related note, what the heck is CyPitboss().getReady() supposed to do, and is it broken?)

However, a big issue is that I have to replace PbAdmin.py in the Assets folder -- which will cause clients to complain that their files don't match the host's. It's a non-fatal error but could scare people away. That's why I'm asking that PbAdmin and PbWizard be somehow overrideable without screwing with Assets.

I'm not sure how that'd affect game security and OOS issues though. Well, we're still trying to figure out the passwording issues at any rate.

Actually, it might be interesting if there were explicit support for server-side mods, e.g. CustomServerAssets for non-UI multiplayer tweaks, preferably with support for multiple custom rulesets on multiple servers running on one machine, but that's a whole different issue.

I'm wondering if their is a password issue outside of the options one. I've had my password 'damaged' a number of times in my own game and a friends and I know I did not go into the options.

Strangely once I tried about 5 times and on the 5th time it let me in - very strange and its a very basic password (i.e not one easily typoed).

Be interested if others are experiencing password issues who haven't gone into game options (alt d or through the menu)

Tals

Yep, have that same thing. Tried all kinds of possible typos and even the MD5 hint found somewhere above, no chance. And even 10 tries didn't help. So a feature to clear the PWD server side would be nice to have.

But barring that, if I get kicked now, do I lose a turn if the AI takes over?

MaHoHo

First, a huge thanks to the folks developing this. I know our small Civ4 group can't wait to start using this.

I've downloaded it and started up a game and was able to goof off a bit. It looks good and seems to work pretty well. I'll be sure to report any bugs I find that haven't been mentioned. For a first release beta though, it looks much better than I expected.

Thanks again!

Jarnhestur

Yep, have that same thing. Tried all kinds of possible typos and even the MD5 hint found somewhere above, no chance. And even 10 tries didn't help. So a feature to clear the PWD server side would be nice to have.

But barring that, if I get kicked now, do I lose a turn if the AI takes over?

MaHoHo

You do if you haven't done your turn that go yet - AI does the turn for you, so when you get back in you have lost your turn, which is the real pain tbh :( The password issue is a bug so in final i'm not expecting these type of issues, just hope the devs realise it is not restricted to the email aspect.

Tals

Finally, something I can't resist posting about... ;)

You do if you haven't done your turn that go yet - AI does the turn for you, so when you get back in you have lost your turn, which is the real pain tbh :( The password issue is a bug so in final i'm not expecting these type of issues, just hope the devs realise it is not restricted to the email aspect.
Have you determined to what extent the AI takes action in an uplayed turn? Will it automate units that have no orders or just move things that are already automated? Will it make any tech or build decisions without actually kicking the player from the game?

I wouldn't expect anything to occur on an unplayed turn except for your queued orders.

Tals

I wouldn't expect anything to occur on an unplayed turn except for your queued orders.

which would actually mean that the AI doesn't take over, but your turn is just skipped.

which is what brings me to my question: when you resign a game in PBEM (or any MP type afaik) the AI takes over properly. could this functionality not be used in pitboss - with the difference that you can get the control back again at any time?

is this intended by the developers or is it just a unfulfillable dream of mine?

I would agree - it would be useful to have an option for the AI to caretake your turns without having to effectively resign from a game (which can mean someone else can take over).

Tals

Exactly. If it can do that then it's worth going through the hassle of getting it set up on a machine etc. If not then I don't see the advantage of doing multi-player any other way.

Exactly. If it can do that then it's worth going through the hassle of getting it set up on a machine etc. If not then I don't see the advantage of doing multi-player any other way.

I'm not sure what this is in response to - if it is regarding AI take over I see this as a good but fairly minor request.

The pitboss server is a small console style application to host long term MP games on a semi persistant basis. In terms of hassle it is easier to setup a pitboss game IMHO than a MP game in Civ.

Another for the enhancements list - ability whilst playing a civ game connected via Pitboss to see which other players are logged in - at the moment only the server controller knows. As chatting etc all works in realtime it would be useful.

Also anyone able to report how diplomacy works in pitboss?
How does chatting work - does it queue the messages - I suspect not.

Tals

which is what brings me to my question: when you resign a game in PBEM (or any MP type afaik) the AI takes over properly. could this functionality not be used in pitboss - with the difference that you can get the control back again at any time?
I think this functionality is currently available- you need to have the PTBS admin 'kick' you from the application. You can then rejoin any time you are ready by simply logging in to your old spot prior to the next turn you want to play.

The question would be, could/should the individual player be able to initiate an AI replacement without going through the admin?

Also anyone able to report how diplomacy works in pitboss?
How does chatting work - does it queue the messages - I suspect not.
logging in gives you chatlog access to the entire history of messages sent by the PTBS admin, but only tracks players' comments past the point of log in. IMO it would be crucial to have a full log tracked by Pitboss and available to the players...

from what i have read so far, i take it that the pitboss server will be sending out emails when that gets implemented. cool

but does anyone know if you will be able to set email server login id's and such if needed? sometime to send email, you have to auth yourself to the server before it will let you send, and port 25 is blocked outbound unless you use the ISP's SMTP server for some people, (as it should be for all)

I hope they take that into account.

Also...they REALLY need a remote admin screen for this. i should be able to host the server up and via HTTP(S) connect to the server remotely and do all the things needed.

I don't really understand :) To send email to another you need authorisation of your ISP's smtp server - other peoples SMTP is of zero interest because the emails will be sending from you to your players. It is NOT like pbem where emails are sent from the different players as the game progresses round robin.

Tals

I think this functionality is currently available- you need to have the PTBS admin 'kick' you from the application. You can then rejoin any time you are ready by simply logging in to your old spot prior to the next turn you want to play.

The question would be, could/should the individual player be able to initiate an AI replacement without going through the admin?

If you retire then the AI will kick in - you don't need to have the server admin kick you - the reason people are requiring this at the moment is because their passwords are getting corrupted and so they can't login :)

The trouble with the ai taking over is that then someone can 'steal' your race. I believe this is what the question was - would it be possible to let the AI take over but keep for example a password protection on the race to stop someone else taking it over. Reasonably fair point which would cover holiday's etc.

Tals

logging in gives you chatlog access to the entire history of messages sent by the PTBS admin, but only tracks players' comments past the point of log in. IMO it would be crucial to have a full log tracked by Pitboss and available to the players...

Hmm that is interesting - im wondering if the chat log records conversations occuring whilst you are not connected- ** goes to test **

Tals

OK first test sucesful - whilst logged out of the game I sent a message from the server. This was recorded in the chatlog when I logged in. Now going to ask on eof my other players to see if they can see the message I typed whilst in game.

Tals

From what I've seen, the PTBS app does track everything, it just doesn't relay some of it to the players for some reason. Should be a simple fix, I'd guess...

If you retire then the AI will kick in - you don't need to have the server admin kick you - the reason people are requiring this at the moment is because their passwords are getting corrupted and so they can't login :)

The trouble with the ai taking over is that then someone can 'steal' your race. I believe this is what the question was - would it be possible to let the AI take over but keep for example a password protection on the race to stop someone else taking it over. Reasonably fair point which would cover holiday's etc.
Well, since games will predominantly be DirectIP, there isn't a chance someone will take the AI away by accident. It is a potential cheat though, so it should be taken care of. Online MPers are screaming for this already as part of the regular program because of accidental logins from the GS lobby.

I'm not sure if you are thinking these responses through :) Directplay people will be able to take over sessions if the game has been organised through a public forum. Civ fantactics has at least 2 games currently

http://www.octopusoverlords.com/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=4

Has 3 games, all public. Sure there are ways around it but there should be a difference between AI for looking after the player and AI because the player no longer plays the game.

Tals

I don't really understand :) To send email to another you need authorisation of your ISP's smtp server - other peoples SMTP is of zero interest because the emails will be sending from you to your players. It is NOT like pbem where emails are sent from the different players as the game progresses round robin.

Tals

from what i have read, it will be the pitboss server itself that will be sending emails out to other people informing them that something has happened, next turn..whatever.

now some ISP's require you to use your ISP's smtp server to send outbound emails as they block port 25 because of virus's and such.(which again all isp's should be doing)

in such cases, there will need to be able to set within pitboss the SMTP server it will use and the username/password to AUTH with to successfully send those emails or they will go ... nowhere ...

It makes some sense to do that while trying to get people together for a test game, but for a real game there'd be no reason to post the IP address in a public forum. I'd email it to the players once all the settings are agreed upon for the same reason I PM or mask email addys in current PBEMs. Leaving that kind of information floating around the net is inviting hassle somewhere down the line.

Passworded AIs aren't vital, but I agree it should be in the polished release. Like I said, it will probably be covered by a fix to the regular game, as long as PTBS is updated laterally.

The OO forum will likely be a place I setup my game and i'm sure the other 2 games will also be created again there. But this is not vital - getting the email issue sorted - now that is vital :)

from what i have read, it will be the pitboss server itself that will be sending emails out to other people informing them that something has happened, next turn..whatever.

now some ISP's require you to use your ISP's smtp server to send outbound emails as they block port 25 because of virus's and such.(which again all isp's should be doing)

in such cases, there will need to be able to set within pitboss the SMTP server it will use and the username/password to AUTH with to successfully send those emails or they will go ... nowhere ...

The pitboss server is on your machine so is no different to say your email client sending an email - I think you may need to setup a quick test to appretiate this aspect.

Yes their is an area to put your smtp loging and password should you require it.

Tals

OK first test sucesful - whilst logged out of the game I sent a message from the server. This was recorded in the chatlog when I logged in. Now going to ask on eof my other players to see if they can see the message I typed whilst in game.

Tals

Ok looks like it keeps track of messages sent from pitboss for example messages I may type directly but does not record other conversations - certainly on final i'd be expecting it to keep these as well.

If possible it would be useful to see how it handles diplomacy.

Tals

Clock for pitboss appears to run slow. My 24 hour turns are taking around 26 1/2 hrs. I know civturtles is also taking longer.

Tals

Out of interest I had thought the auto save was not working - but just checked the pitboss auto directory and the saves are all in there, so not sure why I thought that.

Tals

Since the email stuff wasn't working, I decided to write a quick app that did what was expected (send an email to everyone when a new turn was ready). Check out the separate thread on the main page if you're interested.

Thanks,

~Scree

that gives me an idea:
a turn notifier. everybody has a client tool (open source, so no spyware/trojan possible) that connects to the same machine the pitboss is on. and when there is a turn, you get some sort of notification, possibly using the windows messaging service or an outlook/thunderbird type right-hand-corner-popup.

it could be IRC based or just use "regular" TCP sockets and run as background service (system tray maybe?) or client application.

i presume i'd be able to write something like that in c#/vb.net after a lot of studies, but i don't currently have time for such experiments.

would this work? would anybody be willing to try something like this?

Sure, I could extend the turn notifier to have a client/server component, so you don't have to use email to notify people.

~Scree

Clock for pitboss appears to run slow. My 24 hour turns are taking around 26 1/2 hrs. I know civturtles is also taking longer.

Tals


In addition it seems that anyone of the players can actually pause the turn timer altogether. I wonder what happens if someone accidentally pauses the timer and exits the game?

Ok this one is out of interest - I installed .net 1.1 to try out the email notifier - was having different issues with that which the author was kindly assisting. However pitboss would not then restart - kept failing at stage 6 (XML). I have now uninstalled .net 1.1 and all is ok. Anyone any thoughts this pc is windows 98 se

Tals

I'm unable to connect to my pitboss server even inside my own house by direct ip. I used whatismyip.com to find out what ip to connect to (right?) and it times out. Is there some error in here that is fatal?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v731/culdeus/pitboss.jpg

I'm unable to connect to my pitboss server even inside my own house by direct ip. I used whatismyip.com to find out what ip to connect to (right?) and it times out. Is there some error in here that is fatal?


Most of the time you cannot connect to your external IP from behind your own NAT. To try to connect to it from inside your NAT, use the internal IP address. If you're running the server on the same machine you're trying to connect to it from, put "localhost" as the IP address.

Have you opened up in your router so connections can be made from the outside and route that traffic to the machine running pitboss?
Also some routers dont allow you to connect to the external IP from the inside of the network.

From the same network you should be able to connect using the IP address on local network.

Ok, I'll try that. I started an internet game and I was able to connect that way. Is it faster on internet or direct ip? Has anyone tested loading times?

Most of the time you cannot connect to your external IP from behind your own NAT. To try to connect to it from inside your NAT, use the internal IP address. If you're running the server on the same machine you're trying to connect to it from, put "localhost" as the IP address.

This will be the issue - if you are within your network you need to connect to the internal ip address. Also try connecting on the pc by running civ iv on that machine when pitboss is running. IP of 127.0.0.1 will work.

People outside your network should use the internet ip address - but only if you have port forwarded port 2056.

Tals

Ok, I'll try that. I started an internet game and I was able to connect that way. Is it faster on internet or direct ip? Has anyone tested loading times?

It won't be any different - although an internet game do you need to login to connect? And if so it will be slower with all the rubbish that entails.

Ok this one is out of interest - I installed .net 1.1 to try out the email notifier - was having different issues with that which the author was kindly assisting. However pitboss would not then restart - kept failing at stage 6 (XML). I have now uninstalled .net 1.1 and all is ok. Anyone any thoughts this pc is windows 98 se

Tals

Just to clarify - is anyone running pitboss on windows 98 se and if so have they installed .NET 1.1 and if so did it then not load (i.e stop it and start it again. I find it fails on stage 6 with an application fault. Uninstalling .NET resolves the issue.

I would like to install SCREE's app but can't because of this. It would be useful to know if .NET+WIndows 98+Pitboss = problem, as I only knew that .NET was the issue because I had installed .NET after a sucesfull pitboss install. If I hadn't I would never have understood why pitboss was not running.

Tals

Ok got my hotseat server up and running on the internet mode. Pretty sweet and runs just as fast as off gamespy. Some questions before I get into serious games.

Are the following possible?

1. Having a 4 civ map with 8 players. i.e. you could have each civ run by two people both to speed up play and to sort of gameplan as a pair? Is there some sort of setting in pitboss to make this happen?

2. We had the option of "saving" the game on my game computer and on the hotseat computer. Why would I want to save it on my game computer? Can you email those games back to the hotseat pc in case of server crash as a backup? This would be good to know for games in Texas in the spring.

3. What happens if the AI takes over. Can humans take it back over later? I'm sure this is covered somewhere in this board and I could easily test it, but someone has to know right off.

4. Succession games? Feasable on hotseat? Sure would save posting save files everywhere.

5. I'm assuming only one hotseat game at a time per server?

Is it possible to limit the turn timer (medium, fast, blazing, etc)? I tried and it was the worst problem for me (coz we must limit slow players, hehehe).

If not, thank you anyway. The program is great!

Arthur

Is it possible to limit the turn timer (medium, fast, blazing, etc)? I tried and it was the worst problem for me (coz we must limit slow players, hehehe).

If not, thank you anyway. The program is great!

Arthur

I'm not sure I understand :( At the moment the turn timer is running slow - but that is a bug it should be running at the correct time :)

Tals

Ok got my hotseat server up and running on the internet mode. Pretty sweet and runs just as fast as off gamespy. Some questions before I get into serious games.

Are the following possible?

1. Having a 4 civ map with 8 players. i.e. you could have each civ run by two people both to speed up play and to sort of gameplan as a pair? Is there some sort of setting in pitboss to make this happen?

2. We had the option of "saving" the game on my game computer and on the hotseat computer. Why would I want to save it on my game computer? Can you email those games back to the hotseat pc in case of server crash as a backup? This would be good to know for games in Texas in the spring.

3. What happens if the AI takes over. Can humans take it back over later? I'm sure this is covered somewhere in this board and I could easily test it, but someone has to know right off.

4. Succession games? Feasable on hotseat? Sure would save posting save files everywhere.

5. I'm assuming only one hotseat game at a time per server?

This thread is really dedicated to all that is pitboss :) I would suggest starting a new thread re the hotseat aspect.

Tals

Ok, I'll try that. I started an internet game and I was able to connect that way. Is it faster on internet or direct ip? Has anyone tested loading times?

I have found that direct connect is much more stable. We were playing through game spy and had a lot of disconnects. We have had a single on since we have started using direct. Exept when my brother in laws kid unplugged his computer but that doesn't count.

cmonster

Is there a way to change the game timer after a game has actually started? I really don't want to start our game over, however I wish we could change the timer on the game from 12 hours to 6 or 4. Any thoughts?

Also, how many players can actually connect to a Pitboss game at once. I notice when I have 2 people logged in, I just get the looping effect on login when I try, then goes back to the login. It doesn't give me the typical timeout that comes with firewall issues.. I can type an incorrect password and it will tell me that the pw is wrong, so I know the server sees me, and besides its in my network to boot. So anyone see more than 2 people at once logged into a pitboss? Do I need more ports open or a setting to increase it?

Is there a way to change the game timer after a game has actually started? I really don't want to start our game over, however I wish we could change the timer on the game from 12 hours to 6 or 4. Any thoughts?

You can't change the turn timer after you create the game. If you set the timer to anything less than 12 hours, how do you expect people who go to school and work to take their turns?

So anyone see more than 2 people at once logged into a pitboss?

The most pl