A new game in the Space series, for those who up for agame that's very slow paced but played in good spirits.
First we have to come up with a good idea for the game some ideas sofar are:
a game in which we could only switch to the forgotten goverments, feudalism and fascism?
either an extremely peaceful or an extremely aggressive approach
replay one of the past COTMs

I'm trying to come up with something that might tie-in cIV somehow. Maybe something along the lines of a financial restriction on the number of cities under our reign.

Sid might be a bit too intense, so I'd say Deity. Landmass and civ should depend on the variant we choose IMO.

The Roster is complete:
Northern Pike
Karasu
Ainwood
AlanH
TedJackson
[mystery guest]
Space

Any room for another? I'm suffering a bit of SG withdrawal since dropping out of SGOTM. There's a rumour around Amazon that my shiny new Civ3 Complete for Mac DVD might arrive any time now, so this might be a good way to give it some exercise ...

Note that, assuming you're going to play this on C3C, I'd be back to Sorcerer's Apprentice ranking having lived in a vanilla-flavoured ghetto for three years.

Of course, you're very welcome Alan. :) You do know about the pace of our games, though? It's notoriously slow, allowing for 'other things'TM to exsist, outside of this game. As fo being an apprentice, I take it you'd rather play Sid then? :yeah:

allowing for 'other things'TM to exsist, outside of this game
Not a problem :) A lot of 'other things' exist outside this game for me as well.

I take it you'd rather play Sid then?
I wouldn't know where to begin :eek:

Is there still an open slot? :rolleyes: :salute:

@Smart: Maybe, it depends on the answers to some PMs I sent around. I'll put you on the alternates list. :) You would fit right in seeing the bottom line of your avatar... :mischief:

I'll put you on the alternates list.
Thanks, but it is not needed, because I don't like to start playing somewhere in the middle of the game.
If you will get PM answers in the negative, you may add me to the roster...
You would fit right in seeing the bottom line of your avatar
That line is joke of course :crazyeye:. You can see my SG's in signature :mischief:

Gotta see this game, signing up as a lurker.:D

it depends on the answers to some PMs I sent around.
Don't worry if others have prior claim, Space.

I didn't get a PM. :(


:mischief:

You were the one that seeded this game by resurrecting the Space-3 thread, ainwood. For that alone I couldn't afford you the option to reject playing it... :mischief:

TedJackson replied that he's in, so with six players the roster is full. There's a slim chance we might even get a seventh player, but I'm sure that you'll be as pleased as I am to see him back here, so hopefully you won't mind the long roster then.

How about we simply try to beat a previous gold-medal performance in the COTM? Select one we think we can improve on, and do it?

Just checking in. :rockon: Glad to see you back, Ted.

Good to see you, NP. :)

How about we simply try to beat a previous gold-medal performance in the COTM? Select one we think we can improve on, and do it?OK, what about COTM08 (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/results/index.php?month=30008&submit=Go)?
It has the right level and a nice number one to beat. :mischief: Although I normally love it when a victory type other than domination or conquest wins it, it might open a way to beat the score.

So glad to play with you all after so long! :D
And Alan and Ted back :wow: :cooool:

@Space, am I right in thinking that our mistery guest is who I think he is? ;)

It's a long shot, Karasu, but yes, it's who you think it is.

Hi all,

just signing in. Nice to see some old, familiar faces :D

Happy New Year everyone!


Ted

OK, what about COTM08 (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/results/index.php?month=30008&submit=Go)?


This, in response to Ainwood's "simply try to beat an old medal in a previous COTM"... :lol: ...close to outrageous! ;)

Any other idea? Are we making up our minds this fast? Can this be!?

...close to outrageous! ;)Isn't it just?! :lol: I haven't a clue whether this one is beatable, or how it compares to the others. It struck me as fitting considering who got the gold that month. I take it you agree then? No reason for you not to play that one, is there?

Sadly I haven't heared from our mystery guest yet, so I suggest we'll allow him to drop by later and start this one up soonish. I'll be away skiing 21-28 jan, BTW, but with our long roster that shouldn't be a problem.

I may need to drop down the roster if my copy of Civ3 Complete decides to take the scenic route to Amazon UK. They claim it'll be delivered this week but what do they know?

You did say you would be taking a leisurely approach to this game. What are the rules of engagement?

Absolutely, even if it does take the scenic route, I can put you at the very end of the roster which will mean you can play your ten turns some time in May, or so. :D

I was hoping to tease some discussion out of you lot, by treatening to start. :mischief:

Is this game going to start soon?:cry: :joke: I can be patient.:)

COTM 8 sounds fine to me. Open or Predator start?


Ted

COTM 8 sounds fine to me. Open or Predator start?

Predator, since that's what most of the top finishers played.

Let's play for the fastest possible victory, Conquest or Domination according to circumstances, and without concern for the Jason score. I'm not interested in a milking contest with Aeson. :vomit: :lol:

Yes, I think that will get Karasu his "ultra" warmongers variant, and just maybe facism can play it's role too.

Well, I was about to disagree on a random point just for the sake of the discussion... :p

But I'll be happy with whatever game, so let it be COTM8.

I will also be away -winter hiking in Scotland from 22 to 28 Jan (still got to buy a few things...). Just to let you know :)

@Alan, we started our last SG in the Space Series™ aiming at both having fun playing and meeting again between "old mates". We wanted to take a leisurely and relaxed approach to the playing, giving ourselves time to chat, joke and complete our turnsets without much pressure other than that unavoidably provided by RL commitments (which took its toll, in fact).

It worked out so well ( :dubious: ) that we blew up the roster sequence very soon and ended up with probably one of the longest-lived SGs in human history.
But we loved it so much...
...and we even managed to finish it! :cooool:

So I would expect something similar to happen this time, with more enjoyment to come from the company of you folks :D

Have I left anything out?

I'm not interested in a milking contest with Aeson. :vomit: :lol:Seconded :lol:


Ted

I will also be away -winter hiking in Scotland from 22 to 28 Jan (still got to buy a few things...). Just to let you know :)
Well, I'm away from the 16 through to the 29th. I wasn't even going to mention it, because prior experience suggests that it wouldn't impact on the schedule, and may not even be noticed. :mischief:

OK, time for some action. Here (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/games/saves/cotm_08_predator.zip)'s the predator save from cotm08.

And this:
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/games/images/cotm08small.jpg
is what the start looks like.

Any ideas on starting strategies (apart from moving the worker to check the surroundings.. ;))? We can do this with or without the info in the spoiler threads. I'm for the latter myself. :)

Well, considering I designed the map (and still remember the game intent), I probably shouldn't comment too much! :ack:

How about I put you last in the roster? The game should have evolved far enough to make it matter less. I hoped that maybe all the games you've designed since, would blur the vision of this one a bit for you... :p

edit: Maybe we should allow Alan to check at least the pre-game discussion, since he's so new to C3C... :mischief:

Yeah - but sometimes I make maps that are just 'playable'. SOmetimes I make them with specific strategies / challenges / issues - those are the ones that are more memorable, and this was one of them. But yes - last on the roster would be good. :)

I've been looking at basics, and I did look at the first page of the pre-game thread. Here are some early findings/comments/cries for help:

Sumeria has a rubbish UU, as seen from the viewpoint of a warmonger who never builds spears or pikes, and prefers a Medieval golden age. Maybe just use them as exploring warriors and settler escorts that can do a better-than-average job against the raging barbs, then disband them when we can build something better?

Sumeria is:
- Agricultural - 3 food in city centre, cheap aqueducts, starts with pottery
- Scientific - cheap libraries and unis, starts with bronze working

The start looks like a money maker with lots of river and dyes. Demi-god AI tech pace will be fast. I assume a Republic sligshot is not possible on demigod as we don't have Alphabet as a starter? If so maybe we focus on building our treasury early on, and trading for techs until we get to literature.

I've no real ideas on starting moves. Fog gazing hasn't helped. Maybe a worker move north to see if there's any bonus, then either move towards the bonus, or settle where we stand, or move north east to get the hill in range. Worker can then chop and road the dyes, or move again.

Happy 50th, Ted! [party]

Yes, best wishes, Ted. :band:

We shouldn't found where we are, because that would certainly waste ten shields from the eventual forest chop and might kill a BG in a situation where we can't see any.

I'd prefer to move the worker onto one of the three riverside grassland tiles we might settle, so that the information it gives us will be as relevant as possible.

Unless the scouting reveals something surprising, we should probably build a scouting Enk, a garrison Enk, and then a granary.

First of all: a belated happy birthday to Ted. [party]

I was hoping to start the game this weekend, but it didn't turn out that way. I'm facing a busy week this week (why does it always seems to be that way before a time off?), soo... who likes to volunteer starting? NP?

How about moving the worker east, maybe there's another hill we could use, south of the one visible now?

Well... last of all... HAPPY BIRTHDAY!

North or East may both be worth looking. Worker east and settler north? The other way around? Other ideas?

I'd love to start but I am in a similar situation to Space's, and I still have to pack for Scotland.
Anyway, let's get things straight right from the start: I suggest the following roster :p

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Roster.jpg

A remarkably faithful graphic representation of our practice in previous games, Karasu. :rotfl:

who likes to volunteer starting? NP?

Sure, I'll play the first twenty turns soon...by our standards. ;)

3000 BC, end of turn (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/SP4-3000AD.SAV)

4000 (0): Our worker moves east and finds nothing good. So our settler moves southwest and discovers two BG, which should do.

3950 (1): We found Urrrp (:beer:), and another two BG appear within the city radius. We begin 100% research on IW, which I think is the natural way to profit by starting with BW.


3750 (5): Urrrp Enkidu --> Enkidu.


3550 (9): Urrrp Enk --> granary.


3350 (13): We meet the Babylonians--due to their exploration, not ours. There's no useful deal we can make.


3000 (20): Two turns to the granary's completion.

Well, we've gotten away with the lull involved in building a granary--though if I think this is a great accomplishment, I've probably played too much AW. :lol: Once the granary completes we should probably build Enk-settler-Enk-worker.

Once Urrrp is up to 10 spt, we'll be able to build a barracks there without sacrificing a settler, since we'll be on an eight-turn settler cycle.

The Babylonian spearman appeared to the west of Urrrp, moving south, so I sent our scouting Enk east, in hope of discovering a second rival civ. The shape of the coastline doesn't look too promising in that regard, but it's still possible.

I'll number a few obvious city sites on the screenshot as an aid to discussion. 7 is an otherwise ideal spot probably ruled out by the volcano. 2 would probably just be a fishing village. Perhaps we should settle 4 first, even though the location is partially in fog, since that's the spot we seem likeliest to lose to the Babylonians.

Beginnings:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/SP4-3000BC.JPG

Looks like a solid start there NP! :thumbsup: Thanks to you we are on our way. :banana:

No 4 looks like a good grab, maybe we should be flexible with the exact spot, depending on what the settler runs into.

Remarkably, it is harder than I thought it would be to step back from cIV in my thinking. The start of a game is so diiferent, and I'm still having trouble getting into the right balance there, so I'm a bit off balance here too. We don't really need to escort the settlers yet, do we? But we need the units for MP when they grow, especially in 4.

Good start. Is that fresh water near 6?

6 is a better bet than 4, isn't it? Cattle plus flood plains - food is :king: in Cv3.
If we want to go for 4 or 6 early I'd send an escort. It's raging barbs, remember.

I've finally recovered from the weekend's excesses :beer: :band: :vomit: :blush:

Thanks for the wishes guys (& gals).

On to the game... Nice start NP, we seem to be spoilt for choice as to where to settle. 3 looks quite good as it's river & coastal and will have a road link back to Urrrp by the time we produce our first settler.

It would be good to get a scout onto that hill 2N,1NW of Urrrp to spy out that river site at 4. I'd be inclined to leave 6 for our third or fourth settler as "Sod's Law" will ensure a volcanic eruption as soon as we settle there :rolleyes:

Just my usual (somewhat random) thoughts.


Is the hill 3E of Urrrp on fresh water?



Ted

That bay or inlet east of Urrrrp a couple of you have asked about is salt water, unfortunately.

Alan, I agree that 6 looks better than 4. But given where the Babylonians (probably) are, 4 is the site we need to grab quickly.

Well done! :goodjob: -if a bit too fast, if I can say anything... :p

If we plan to settle 4 fast, I'd start roading through 5 as soon as practical. In fact, we could easily branch to 7 and 6 from there.

On the other hand, settling 1, 2, 3 initially might lead to a faster early development... :hmm:

I'd need another week or two to think about it, but on instinct I'd favour the aggressive option followed of course by a careless war declaration on Babylon... :D

Since Ainwood, Karasu and I are away until the 29th, either Ted or Alan is UP according to Karasu's roster. :D

See you soon!

...or just keep on talking until we come back ;)

I can pick up in about 12 hours... Alan, feel free to get if if you can play sooner.


Ted

Well, in theory, I can't, as Amazon UK seem to have lost interest in making customers happy by actually delivering stuff they want.

However, as that eloquent signature says, "Theory and practice are the same in theory, but different in practice".

Let me see what I can come up with :mischief: GOT IT

The save at 2550 BC (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/SP4_2550BC.SAV)

The situation at 2550 BC:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/SP4_2550BC.jpg

The ten turns:

Turn 20, 3000 BC: NP's MM is immaculate :thumbsup:
Urrrp granary in 2, growth in 3. No changes. Hit next turn.

IBT: Babs spear exit stage right.

Turn 21, 2950 BC: Decide to avoid volcano as I'm not sure what nasty things they can do. So scouting Enkidu E. Enkidu N out of Urrrp towards Ted's hill. Slider 0.8.2 for loss of MP. Move citizen off worker tile and onto the second river dyes for a turn to get an extra gp and 1fpt. We can still grow next turn after the granary completes by going back to 2fpt.

IBT Granary completes in Urrrp. Start Enkidu.

Turn 22, 2900 BC: Citizen back to workeer's tile for 2 food, growth next turn. IW now 18 turns because of reduced gpt.
Scouting Enk west to forest. homestead Enk north. Sees teh roots of some sugar under the fog to the north by the river.
We'll have eight shields next turn, with the growth bonus. Slider to 2.6.2 to meet costs of granary. IW now 22 turns.

Check on Hammurabi. He's doing fine, thanks. Sitting on WC, CB, and a worker. Oh, and it looks like he's killed a barb camp as he has 35 gold. he has Silks hooked up.

IBT Road finished. Urrrp grows to pop 4.

Turn 23, 2850 BC: We have 8 shield towards an Enkidu. I hate to waste shields and seriously consider putting them towards a settler instead. We can pop a settler in 3 turns with no waste, dropping back to pop 2/3, meanwhile we can continue with tile improvements. We are working two unimproved tiles at pop 4. Downside is we are vulnerable if Hammy comes calling, and an extra Enkidu might just deter him from trying. I decide to take the risk. Slider is 0.7.3, IW in 17 at -1gpt. 11 in the kitty.
Scout Enkidu west to coast. Homeland Enkidu NW to hill. Confirms sugar, sees flood plain to west. Worker moves to river/BG SW of Urrrp.

Turn 24, 2800 BC: Worker starts road. ScoutEnk S on coast, HomeEnk heads S back towards home as there's no clear scouting opportunity to the west worth risking being far from home. Slider 1.6.3 for break even, IW in 16.

IBT Babs spear reappears in the east.

Turn 25, 2750 BC: HomeEnk SE, still heading home. ScoutEnk SW onto hill.

IBT Babs Spear back into eastern fog. Settler->Enkidu.

Turn 26, 2710 BC: Settler to (3) HomeEnk .. home. ScoutEnk SW on hills next to volcano. Risky, I guess, but it's a long way around to avoid it. Urrrp at pop 2, 5spt, 3fpt to grow next turn. Slider 1.9.0 for 0gpt. IW in 14.

IBT Road done. Urrrp to pop 3.

Turn 27, 2670 BC: Build Super, starts Enkidu. Worker starts mine.
Slider 0.9.1 for IW in 8 turns at -1gpt. ScoutEnk SW onto mountain, sees another volcano to south. Living dangerously.

IBT Urrrp Enkidu->Enkidu. Baba starts the Pyramids.

Turn 28, 2630 BC: ScoutEnk South, and finds another volcano! New Enk South and East to explore the south east coast.

Turn 29, 2590 BC: ScoutEnk South in mountains. NewEnk East
Check in with Hammi. He's done some research and met someone. He has Masonry, Alphabet, Wheel, Warrior Code and CB. There's still a worker in residence.

IBT Urrrp Enkidu to Enkidu, but I'm not crazy about lots of regulars.

Turn 30, 2550 BC: ScoutEnk East towards next mountain range. NotSoNewEnk east to hill. NewestEnk West.
Slider 1.8.1, IW in 6 turns.

Several options for Urrrp's next build. An Enkidu would strengthen our defences, but another regular? :eek: I've seen no raging barbs to promote them against yet, either. Maybe they are all in the north west keeping Hammi's workers at home. A worker could accelerate the 10spt target, or we could get another settler out.

We have Iron Working in 6, and we'll need another worker or three, specially if we want to settle as far out as 4 soon. It may even be worth switching Super to a worker, even though the shields will come in a couple of turns before the pop.

I didn't find anyone else during my turns, but I'm sure Hammi has. His spear has been wandering about in the south east, so maybe there's someone down there. Alternatively he may have coastal contact in the north west.

Please feel free to shout at me and throw things. I've produced a detailed log to help provide ammunition :p

NP's MM is immaculate :thumbsup:

Well, with only one city to manage, I would hope so. :lol:

That looks good, though I haven't studied the save yet. An impressively detailed report. :goodjob:

The save seems to be in an invalid attachment, though I was able to get it by hitting Quote and then copying and pasting.

So, here it is again:

2550 BC, end of turn (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/SP4_2550BC.SAV)

You might have caught the attachment mid-edit. I tried using [ATTACH] tags. It looked Ok in preview, but when I posted it went pear shaped. So I did the full upload files thang and changed the links into urls.

PS I'll be interested to hear confirmation that you can load up my save, in view of its origins :mischief:

PS I'll be interested to hear confirmation that you can load up my save, in view of its origins :mischief:

Yes, no problem.

Aah the old reprobates.... Ted Jackson back... AlanH playing C3C and NP still hasn't got a decent Avatar - Oh and I'm still spamming 'coz I haven't got anything constructive to say!

Wow! M-B as I live and breathe. Where the .... did you spring from? :wavey:

How are you?

Got it

Play this evening... Hi MB, how's things?


Ted

SP4 BC2550

Pre-flight checks... OK :goodjob:

Initial thoughts... A Curragh might help with contacts; we need more workers (as always :));

IBT
Urrrp Grows to pop 4

Turn 31, 2510BC
Enk arrives at Urrrp (1h,2c,1u)
Enk (far scout) E to mountain
Enk (near scout) S to hill - spots Deer South
After a lot of thought...
Urrrp switches to Settler (target 3N,1NW of Urrp - Floodplains & Sugar)

IBT
Super Enk -> Worker

Turn 32, 2470BC
Enk (Super) NW
Enk (Urrp) fort Urrp
Enk (near scout)heads for Super
Enk (far scout) S to mountain - spots Whale to the South

IBT
Volcano 3NE,1E of Urrrp is now active :(

Turn 33, 2430BC
Worker mine -> SW
Enk (NW Super) W
Enk (far scout) SE (just in case)
Settler due IBT (exact), coincides with growth at Super :)

IBT
Urrrp Settler -> Enk

Turn 34, 2390BC
Settler & Enk escort (Urrp) head for target (River SW of Sugar)
Worker starts Mine
Enk W
Enk (far scout) W
<Computer crashes - reload & replay>
Sliders 1.7.2 (IW in 2 still)

IBT
NTR

Turn 35, 2350BC
Enk (W Scout) NW
Enk (far scout) SW
Enk arrives Super
Sliders 8.1.1 (everything happens IBT)

IBT
Discover IW -> The Wheel (find Horses)
Urrrp Enk -> Settler
Super Worker -> Enk
Volcano 3NE,1E of Urrrp erupts

Turn 36, 2310BC
Enk (Super) heads for Urrp
Worker (Super) NW
Enk (Urrrp) fort Urrrp
Enk (W Scout) N
Enk (far scout) W
Sliders 3.7.0

IBT
NTR

Turn 37, 2270BC
Worker (NW Super) Mine
Enk (W Scout) NE
Settler & escort arriveon site
Enk (far scout) SW to mountain
Enk arrives at Urrrp and forts (escort for our next Settler)

IBT
NTR

Turn 38, 2230BC
LagaLouts founded -> Enk - Wheat shows up in expanded border, Bab Spear 2N
Enk fort LagaLouts
Enk (W Scout) N
Enk (far scout) S
Alphabet & CB up for sale

IBT
Spear heads back North

Turn 39, 2190BC
Enk (W Scout) N
Enk (far scout) NW

IBT
NTR

Turn 40, 2150BC
Worker (2SW Urrrp) Mine -> Road
Enk (W Scout) N
Enk (far scout) NW

Our Prospects

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/SP4-West.jpg

Notes
Urrp will grow and pop a Settler IBT (there's a spare Enk to act as escort).
Personally I'd favour sending the Settler 3W to spot A (NP's spot 1). The rivermouth by our Enk also looks good.
Alternatively, the hill 3NE of LagaLouts (Spot B) could be useful towards establishing Hadrian's Wall.
As always, the choice is up to the next player.



Ted
p.s. I hope I didn't make too much of a balls up :D

I'm OK guys, just trying to decide if I should blow the dust off a couple of game disks.....

There's a whole new investment opportunity for dust-gathering disks awaiting you in the form of Civ4 ;)

NP still hasn't got a decent Avatar

Hey, the Christmas version of my avatar, with a wreath on the pike, has been much admired. :lol: Great to see you back here. :rockon:

Ted, good work. I think that with a (presumably) Babylonian city in sight fairly close to our capital, our next foundation should definitely be farther north than your site A/my site 1.

With everybody slinking off for late Winter holidays I guess either mad-bax (subject to dust blowing) or Northern Pike is up next.


Ted

OK, I've got it, provisionally. But, MB, if you'd like to step in, you have a little longer to say so. I won't play for at least twelve hours.

1750 BC, end of turn: 113641

Hmm, that's not the format I intended, and I don't know whether the attached save will work. What was wrong with the old upload system? What was wrong with DOS? ;)

2150 (0): Despite all the appropriate terrain we've uncovered, we can't see iron.

Urrrp settler --> settler.

Super worker (last-minute change) --> granary.


2110 (1): We spot a Babylonian settler/warrior team. We may have to accept Laglouts and site 1/A as our front line.


2070 (2): Laglouts Enk --> worker.


2030 (3): The Babylonians found Eridu next to the western fish. At least we had an Enk wall up to keep them from pushing any farther south.


1990 (4): The Babylonians are building the Colossus.


1950 (5): Urrp settler (speeded up by chop) --> barracks.


1910 (6): We found A Kish Before Dying in an acceptable spot to the west, though we have to accept non-provocative cultural overlap with Eridu.


1870 (7): Not much.


1830 (8): Hammurabi extorts 21 gold out of us. :mad:


1790 (9): Wheel --> Alphabet (but we can discuss this). We see no horses. Apparently a start without the early strategic resources was the designed challenge, or part of it.


1750 (10): Our scouting Enks reach unbroken Babylonian territory, so we may not meet any other civs until we have galleys.

We'll beat the Babylonians to Ted's spot B, since we have a settler adjacent to it. After that we should try to settle C to cut them off, and then we can found better cities at our leisure. Or, for that matter, we could just wall them off with a line of Enks from B to sea :lol:, especially if our two scouting Enks in Babylonia have to retreat.

Urrrp will complete its barracks soon with the help of a chop, and can then return to producing settlers. We have a settler building in Laglouts to cover the gap in Urrrp's production.

I think it's worth waiting for Super to complete its granary, unless some crisis arises. Urrrp can only be an eight-turn settler factory in despotism, so we need another steady source of settlers and workers.

We have no beakers invested in Alphabet yet, so we can switch to Warrior Code without losing anything if that's what the team prefers. I'd rather press on to the techs beyond Writing until the situation becomes more dangerous, though. WC should be a four-turn tech for us before too long, but it isn't yet.

We're taking some chances with our garrisons, but I think it's the right play in this unthreatening position. When we get an Enk into Urrrp we should be able to cut the luxury rate. And we'll soon hook up dyes, of course.

A Kish Before Dying is under cultural pressure from Eridu, so I wouldn't reduce the garrison there below two.

1790 (9): Wheel --> Alphabet (but we can discuss this). We see no horses. Apparently a start without the early strategic resources was the designed challenge, or part of it.:mischief:

BTW - good to see you, M-B. Are you 'settled' now?

No Horses, no Iron?

Teaming up our Enks with some Archers seems quite a powerful combo in this situation. WC gets my vote :D


Ted

Hi Ainwood.

I have a new job (same company), but I still travel during the week - to Slovakia mostly. I would love to get back into Civ, but I would probably be a lousy team member.

I remember the few months before the "break" and I wonder how people kept their patience.

Still, I live in hope, and I'll try to spam this thread as much as I can :mischief:

No Horses, no Iron?

Teaming up our Enks with some Archers seems quite a powerful combo in this situation. WC gets my vote :D

The question of whether we should archer-rush the Babylonians is a deep one. Two arguments against it, not necessarily definitive:

1. We'd almost certainly fight the Babylonians in their GA, given their Bowmen. We'd be in ours too, of course, but we'd be advancing away from our supercharged cities and towards theirs.

2. Although this depends on factors we can't evaluate yet--the number of contacts we'll make with galleys, etc.--Invention/longbows by 300 BC isn't out of the question for this difficulty level and civ. That would leave us about seventy turns in which to reach domination before our target date.

Hi guys, I'm back, and in one piece I'm happy to add. The black slopes din't manage to get me down. :smug: ;)

M-B good to see you made it! Spam here as much as you like. :)

I'll comment more on the game after I've had some sleep.

No Horses, no Iron?

Teaming up our Enks with some Archers seems quite a powerful combo in this situation. WC gets my vote :D
Apologies, I know that Babylon is our closest neighbour but I keep imagining that it's Egypt with a Horse-based UU :confused: .

I withdraw my vote for WC :blush:


Ted

WELCOME BACK, MB!

:band: :beer: :dance: :cooool: :bounce: :banana:

A true pleasure to see you again :D
Please, spam this thread as much and as often as you want -I'll try to do the same... ;)

Actually, after a fantastic week snow-hiking in Scotland, I am being sent out to Toulouse and Noordwijk this week, so I won't have many chances to pop over here. I'll keep up, anyway, don't worry -just don't play too fast! ;)

-just don't play too fast!
Hmmm, can't promiss anything... :yeah:

Got it. I'll check the save and come back with questions.

I agree with NP on alphabet/writing first, since we still have some room for expansion, especially when we go for "C".

On the longer term we might need to go the naval route soonish to meet the others and trade our way into some useful resources.

You're all so sane!?

Why didn't anyone invite me?

I'd love to snuggle with some mods and make them temporarily fuzzy. Or dizzy. Or wuzzy.

I know how to do that. Or how to be that. :)

Yey, I agree with absolutely everything...

...but...

...no wars? :confused: ;)

Didn't mange to play tonight, I'll try again tomorrow.

@Gozpel: Sane? You sure? :eek: ;) Feel free to make us feel **zzy, the roster is already overloaded though, since I mean to :whipped: MB into actually playing. :evil:

since I mean to :whipped: MB into actually playing. :evil:

That would be good. Glad to see him back even if it is just as a lurker.

Space4 - 1750BC

THE SAVE (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/SP4-1500_BC.SAV)

pre-turn
Everything looks fine. Press enter.

IT
A kish Before Dying: Enkidu -> Rax (may be changed to Colossus if someone feels lucky)

1725BC - turn 1
I send the Enkidu to Langout via Urrrp.
Both the workers start a road, one of the roaming Enkidus is sent home.
The settler pair mover up the hill on Teds' B to enjoy the view.

IT
Zzz

1700BC - turn 2
Babylons' Block founded, it starts a Rax.
Black smoke from the Vulcano near aply named Urrrp increases the thirst of it's inhabitants.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/SP4-BB-founded.JPG


IT
Zzz

1675BC - turn 3
The Vulcano erupts, with even more consumption as a logical consequence. The Laglouters are so jealous that the luxery need to go up a notch.
All this drinking will cause Urrrp to loose many shields and food.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/SP4-eruption.JPG

IT
Dyes are connected
Urrrp: Rx -> Enkidu
Mongols build The Oracle

1650BC - turn 4
Zzz

IT
Zzz

1625BC - turn 5
Zzz

IT
Urrrp: vet Enkidu -> settler

1600BC - turn 6
I move the regular Eniku to the Laglouts, this'll allow us to drop lux a bit next turn

IT
Zzz

1575BC - turn 7
Lux down to 0%, Alphabet due in 2 @ +2gpt

IT
Zzz

1550BC - turn 8
MM Laglouts to get it settler next turn.

IT
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/SP4-dyes.JPG
Laglouts: Settler -> Granary

1525BC - turn 9
After an initial rebellion, the settler sets off the C spot in the desert. An Enkidu is send with her to make sure she doesn't change her mind.

IT
Super: Worker -> Curragh
The Babs start ToA.

1500BC - turn 10
Worker near Kish has little use where in it and is sent NE to connect the new cities.

Recap:
Writing is is due in 12 @ -3gpt. We have 39 in the kitty and a new city on the way, so we should be able to get it 12. The Curragh can scout the seas to look for likely crossings.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/SP4-1500BC.JPG

That sounds good. :goodjob: I'm glad we've started a curragh.

The above link to the save doesn't work, due to a typo (1500BC versus 1500_BC), but this one (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/SP4-1500_BC.SAV) should.

Well, mates.
You are playing way too fast :nono: :p

Therefore, I'll take the save to rectify the situation.
Before I disappear with the file, any recommendation? I'd be inclined to expand somewhat towards that red border... :D


Got it

Fixed that link, thanks NP

Before I disappear with the file, any recommendation?The settler pair is heading for C to close off the border. The Babs will have Galleys in a short while so I'd say settle the good spots in our home terf soonish and get our production up. Without Iron or Horses we are forced to go for quantity. *sound of distant marching*

Well, mates.
You are playing way too fast :nono: :p

Quite right, and the guilt is mostly mine :D; but now I'm going to atone for it, since I won't be available to play again until March 7 or so. :wavey: I may be able to check in every so often, but no more.

Our basic goal now, I think, is to research as quickly as possible to Invention/longbows.

It's very good news that the Babylonians have started ToA. If we can capture and hold it, all our problems (well, quite a few of them) regarding the cultural expansions needed for quick domination will be solved. So, of course, we should avoid the tech which kills off the ToA--which I believe is Education, but please check this.

Good luck on your travels, NP. :wavey:

Karasu is doing well slowing us down... :thumbsup: :mischief:

Indeed... :D

You didn't expect me to return from weekend with my turns played, did ya? :cooool:

I have actually managed to look at the save, anyway.
So, yes, the new-born settler will go towards "C", even though I am still tempted by that nice little spot close to the Bab border where the rivers join and a wheat lies...

Also true that we will want to put together a reasonably good core in a short time.

I do like the idea of going for Longbows. It is probably early at this stage to start following that path, so I'll probably build one or two curraghs, settlers and workers.

BTW, Space, how long am I allowed to hold this? :mischief:

Until MB comes along to claim it...

I think you have some time left. :mischief:

Ehm... :blush: :begformercy:

...I did think I would have some time to play -albeit at a "leisurely" pace (so to speak).
But I've been swamped. I couldn't even get one turn done! :eek:

I'm also out to yet another meeting in Noordwijk, today and tomorrow, which may give me some breathing space to play -but chances that I can post anything before Monday are very slim.

So if anyone feels like throwing another ten in, please do.

And sorry for the sabotage...
well, at least I did slow it down a bit, didn't I

Ok, then. MB hasn't come around to claim it, but I managed to play a few turns ...at last.... So here we go.


You won't believe this -I still have my last turnlog from Space 03... :crazyeye:
So, yes, it's been quite some time.

Well. Game loaded, grid on.
CivAssist loaded -DEBUG? Commercial and Agricultural? ops, the COTM21 test saves...
Autosaves deleted.

Ok, everything seems nice and clean (apart from all those volcanoes. I hate volcanoes).
Let's go.
BTW, how long have I held this game? Two weeks? :eek:


As soon as I press Enter, a barb horseman appears east of Babylon's Block.
We Urrrp a settler.


Turn 1 - 1475 BC
Ok, where should the settler go? Founding a city close to Urrrp would probably be the wiser move, but this settler really wants to go closer to the Babylonian border.
And who am I to say no? :D

The other settler moves towards the C spot, wherever that was (ehm, I haven't had many chances to check our forum again since last Wed...).

Turn 2 - 1450 BC
Our brave Enkidu warrior burns the hut and grabs 25 gold. Good, this will help funding our research (currently running at -3 gpt).
I assume the worker next to Super wants to road that hill and move onto the BG. I send another worker there.

Turn 3 - 1425 BC
CivAssist tells me that Hammurabi is up Masonry, CB, WC and Writing. The bastard.
I try to talk to him but he won't sell. Twice bastard.

Well, it seems that the barb horse and another barb warrior are heading towards his cities. I'll let them go.

Super completes the curragh -start a worker.
The Byzantines complete the Colossus.

Turn 4 - 1400 BC
The worker NE of Urrrp moves north, towards Bab's Block.
A Kish completes its Rax, starts a worker -I was tempted to start another Curragh, but that could be its next build.

The Babylonians have started the ToA.

Turn 5 - 1375 BC
Bad Bad Bad is founded in a questionable place (but I liked it). It will improve with cultural expansion. I start a rax there.

The northern settler. I remember it had to go towards the coast to complete our blockade of babylonian expansion.
Was it a desert tile, next to the oasis? I'd rather go to the hill, it would have some grassland at least.
Hmm, let's move on anyway. There are still one or two tiles to go...

Turn 6 - 1350 BC
Urrrp: Settler - settler
Super: worker - Barracks (can be changed)

The curragh crawls along our coast, and from the cape south of Kish it sees a distant shore to the west, with a brownish border. Our brave sailors challenge the treacherous seas...

Turn 7 - 1325 BC
A Babylonian settler+spear appears next to the northern oasis . Too late, neighbour... :D
...I found In Your Face right in their face.

I also found Eech at the feet of that ugly volcano -start Granary, but could be anything.
I hope I haven't blown up our building plans too badly... :D
But I wanted to stay on the river and to leave room for another city upstream and one or two to the south.

Turn 8 - 1300 BC
Our curragh sinks in view of the foreign shores. Damn. Switch Kish to Curragh and Super to worker.

Check F4. Ok, Theodora has appeared.
She has 402 gold and at least as many techs as Hammurabi.
We are only 2 turns away from Writing but I cannot trade for it.

Turn 9 - 1275 BC
Super: Worker - barracks.
Babylon's Block: Barracks - worker

The babylonian settler moves eastwards.

Next turn we've got Writing coming up and the curragh in Kish. I'll leave it here.
One bonus turn for the next player.


Hmm... haven't played much lately -other than watching the AI do crazy things in the COTMs... but I am confident that I couldn't do too much damage in so short a time...
And you guys will surely make up for it :D

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/SP04-1275BC.jpg

THE SAVE (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/SP04-1275BC.SAV)

If we can get some agreement on what to do, I could play over the weekend.

Bear in mind that I'd prefer that the strategic decisions are made by the team - seeing as I know the map. I'll limit myself to the mechanics in the turnset.

I'll try to comment later, I'm having a crazy week so I can't promiss anything.

I could play over the weekend.That's a bit quick for this game, isn't it?

I'll try to look at it and comment today ... no promises ;)

Well, he didn't really say he was talking about this weekend... :p

You guys like to spam a lot...:p , I also wonder how much advantage knowing the map gives...:mischief:

You guys like to spam a lot...:p , I also wonder how much advantage knowing the map gives...:mischief:
In my case, the knowledge of the map is quite important, because I know what the intent of the map layout was as well (if that makes sense) - the map was designed so that certain strategic decisions would have very good benefits.

Hm? :scan:
Where's everyone gone?

I mean, we can take the playing easy, but the spamming... :D

Well, I went up to Birmingham to see my new grandson, completely reneging on my hope of commenting last week. But I'm back now, and after I catch up on the chaos that seems to be breaking out as TF restructures the servers I'll have a look at it. That could be in a day or so :eek:

Well, I can't look at the save at the moment and can only offer generalities, so all this should be taken with a grain of salt. ;) But I think our goals should be to:

1. Finish settling the eastern lands, where there are still some good sites.

2. Get the FP started.

3. Research and trade our way to Invention/longbows as quickly as possible, which means getting our cheap libraries built.

4. Start building units which will still be useful when we discover Invention and get going against the Babylonians--meaning catapults above all, but also spearmen and galleys.

I'd hope that we could avoid building the Great Library, but if we can't make enough tech progress by other means we might have to. :cool:

Happy Birthday, Space :D

:bday: [party] :beer: :bounce: :banana:

:bday: a space oddity :)

Yeah - HBD, Space! :beer:

I'll try to play tomorrow....

Happy Bday again, Space! :cooool:

But wait a minute... are we playing without discussing strategies first? :dubious: ;)

Thanks again, guys.

Karasu, why not set an expample? :yeah: Something involving war perhaps?
Like NP says we should be thinking about the FP location. If we really are going for score we should consider one of the (allowed... ;)) Palace strategies. I need someone to spell them out for me, I always mess these up and end up building it by hand in a sub-optimal spot. :cry: ;)

Ha! This is a devilishly cunning move, space :devil:
To try and get me to do what I was expecting anyone else to... ;) indeed, I think I remember reading on a post dated 17th Feb that "I'll try to comment later..." :twitch:

But then, since you are only asking for an expample (that is, a spammish example)... then I am probably up to the task :D

Not sure about FP location in C3C really -I normally watch the AI play this version of the game, so you had better try someone else for directions in this area!
But I kind of like Badbadbad as an FP site, assuming we are going to conquer the Bab towns in the area.
This however would require us to divert quite a few workers to improve there, and we still need to achieve some border expansion to make use of the two wheats.

As an option, we can place it to the east and found more cities in the area. Don't know what would be faster.

In terms of war, I like the Longbow approach.
If we get WC in a short time, we can build a few Archers -just to improve our military rating. I still think it is a bit early to start producing military, we do need a few more workers.
So not much to do right now, unless you want to cosider an Enkidu rush on Babylon... :dubious:

I am also assuming that we will research Literature and rely on trade to get Mathematics.

:wavey: Hallo, mates! :D

Glad to see we've returned to our "leisurely pace" after the surge of activity of the first turnsets...

...but then, maybe we've rested enough? :coffee: How about getting some chat going on? I'm starting to miss this thread! :D

Oops,

this thread seemed to have fallen off my radar :blush:


Ted

We still have an "I'll try to play tomorrow" commitment from Ainwood--seventeen days ago, admittedly, but given the relativistic time dilation that applies to this series that's just about right. :D So, Ainwood? ;)

We still have an "I'll try to play tomorrow" commitment from Ainwood--seventeen days ago, admittedly, but given the relativistic time dilation that applies to this series that's just about right. :D So, Ainwood? ;)
Who are you people, and why do I keep getting thread subscriptions to this? :confused:








Actually, seeing as karasu appeared again, I figured I'd do the gentlemanly thing and let him take it :mischief:

Well, I'd be delighted to keep you all waiting for the next month or so while I get my turns played... ;)

...but if my memory doesn't betray me, I have played the last turnset and I am sure our strict roster rules won't allow me to play twice in a row :D

Well, I have an opening next week - my S.O. is away for a few days....

I guess that will fit-in with the schedule rather nicely. :ack:

Will try to play thursday. :hmm:

Turn 0: 1275 BC;
Reduce luxuries to 0 for an extra 3 GPT.

Turn 1: 1250 BC:
Complete writing. Babylon & Byzantines both have philosophy - so not much chance of the republic slingshot then! Choose literature. Adjust research to do it in 13 at a slight loss.

Complete curragh in A Kish Before Dying, so decide its a good place for a settler.

Turn 2: 1225 BC:
zzzz.

Turn 3:
IT - lose curragh to barb galley. See barb horseman to south-west (threatening worker).
Complete settler in urrrrrrr. Start enkidu.

Turn 4:
Complete worker in Babylons' block -> enkidu.

Turn 5:
Use chop to complete barracks in Super, start settler.
Hire a scientist in lagslouts to prevent a riot.

Turn 6.
Urrrppppp enkidu -> settler.
Need to adjust lux to stop a riot.

Turn 7:
Found some city that I forget to name Cow's folly. Disperse a barb camp for some much needed cash.

Turn 8:
AKBD Settler-> Curragh (there is a dromon out sinking barbs, so it shoudl be safe)
I think babylon is at war - keep having workers for sale.

Turn 9:
Babylon completes pyramids (in babylon).

Turn 10 - 1000 BC!
zzzz

We ahve a couple of settlers on-the-move - one about to settle on the hill by the game, but that can be vetoed.

Literature is 2 turns away (increasing the science rate doesn't change that, so I decreased it to make a profit). So far, we are the only ones that have it.

Looks good :goodjob:

I'm too lazy to look at the save right now. Anyone cares to post a map? :mischief:

Here it is ...

:thanx: :love:

I see nothing wrong with settling on the hill down there (but I didn't spend too much time thinking about it...).
I also remember that the hill 1E1SE (more or less) from Bab's block is along the river, and I'd target it for one of the next settlers.

Ehm... who's up? :D

:thanx: :love:
S'all right :) Just showing off now that I can open C3C files just like you big boys and girls.

I see nothing wrong with settling on the hill down there (but I didn't spend too much time thinking about it...).
I also remember that the hill 1E1SE (more or less) from Bab's block is along the river, and I'd target it for one of the next settlers.Indubitably :D

Ehm... who's up? :D
Well, I followed NP during the first round, if I recall, so I guess it's not me. Will the mystery guest please step forward?

I'm afraid our mystery guest hasn't been around since january. :( How about you playing a turnset, Ted? In the mean time I'll try to contact MB again... wish me luck. :)

I'm busy tomorrow but I'll pick it up on Sunday if no-one else steps forward :)


Ted

I also remember that the hill 1E1SE (more or less) from Bab's block is along the river, and I'd target it for one of the next settlers.

Actually, I've just fired it up again and there's no gold on that hill according to my copy of Civ3, so no river bank.

But! There is gold in them thar hills 3 SE of Babs Block :D

Got it


Ted

anytime now Ted...:lol:

:bump: :bump: Come on - a month between turns is pushing it a bit, isn't it?

I actually forgot about this game...:hmm:, still waiting on Ted...:p :lol:

I'm glad this thread has come back to life, sort of :lol:. I certainly haven't given up on the game.

I'm glad this thread has come back to life, sort of :lol:
I love your optimism. Should we perhaps consider skipping ... whoever was up?

The Roster is complete:
Northern Pike
Karasu
Ainwood
AlanH
TedJackson-skipped
[mystery guest]-?
Space-up!

there it is, the roster.:scan:

Thanks, Ansar :)

Ted? Space? :scan:

I'll see what I can do (I guess that's a got it).

Good news :D

I'll check back in a month's time to see what happened :p

Hmm, sorry I didn't play yet, but I'm going away for a few days, for a short holiday in la douce France. I'll be back next Sunday, so if anyone of you feels like playing a set before that, feel free... :groucho:

Oh, don't hurry... :p

Is it always the lurker who bumps? :bump: I believe Space is up? He should be back from holidays in France.:D

:mischief: Space is a 'she'! :eek:

By the way, I'm away on business from Monday 15th to Monday 29th... :rolleyes: ...it's true!

Almost 2 months between turns. Could this be a record?? :eek: At least this team has made it to 1000BC! :rotfl:

:mischief: Space is a 'she'! :eek:

...:blush: My apologies, Space...

No problem at all Ansar, don't worry.

Indeed I'm back but I suffer from a Civ block, I hoped that I could pressure myself to play by posting a "got it" but it doesn't have the required effect. I guess you guys aren't scary enough... :lol:

Anyway, I have to face the truth, I think I have de facto retired from civ, or am at the very least away on a sabbatical from playing.

So hereby I sadly "ungot it" and :salute: you.

Sorry to hear that, Space, but I think I understand. I haven't played Civ seriously myself since taking on SGOTM admin, and I must say I don't really have much in the way of withdrawal symptoms. This game's current pace seems to be all I need, plus the vicarious pleasure of seeing others having fun in the competitions. For me, it's probably a sign of a fading (second ... third ... ?) childhood. Can't think what could have brought your (temporary) retirement on, though.

Anyway, good luck with whatever has replaced Civ in your life, and I hope you can keep in touch with your friends here.

Thanks for understanding Alan. :)

Part of it is trying to bring the fun that I have here to my work. I work in speech recognition and I am really trying hard to make it accepted as a valid way of making things easier for people who have to interact with computers out of necessity rather than choice.

Another part of it is my current infatuation with Spore, a new PC game in the making, which has intruiging basic assumptions: user creativity, integrated science (space!) and procedural animations.

It even has a civ stage. :banana:

I find its' developing process fascinating too, as they use prototypes to validate certain ideas. I'm sure that I can use this in my own work too.

A third part might be my non-connection with cIV, I find it too complex to be fascinated with it the way Civ III had me. But it's arrival waned me of III in the process.

:( I hope you'll still pop-in from time to time to say 'hi'.

Good luck, space.

Well, that's sad news, Space, but I'm glad you're getting the same kind of excitement from other things in your life. I've really enjoyed the games in your series, and particularly recall Space-1--remember when beating AWM seemed a remarkable thing, and Handy and Greebley were the learners in AW? :D I hope you'll continue to check in occasionally.

Sure thing, I'll still be around, I'm just not actively playing, that's all. :)

And, yeah, they were great times. And don't forget that my series started because MB suckered me into starting one, after playing in his series. Who still remembers the double-whammy and the no-science space games? They were great too.

In case anyone forgot, the save is on Post #112 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=3818271&postcount=112), at 1000 BC.

Gee, a leisurely SG! What a nice concept for those of us whose age is greater than our waist size.

In case anyone forgot, the save is on Post #112 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=3818271&postcount=112), at 1000 BC.

Well, thank you, a very tactful way of bumping the thread. :D

I've got it.

350 BC, end of turn (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/SP4-350BC.SAV)

Bwahaha! :evil: You have not escaped this game, gentlemen! Bwahaha! :evil:


1000 (0): Hmmm. :scan: This is a perfectly good position from the standpoint of winning the game eventually. From the standpoint of fast research and a win before 1000 AD, it's pretty bad, since the Philosophy-Republic slingshot is out the window and we have no GLib pre-build. I'll build a lot of libraries as soon as we have Literature.


975 (1): We found ZabalamThankYouMa'am SE of Urrrp.

Literature --> Republic.


950 (2): Literature to Hammurabi, with 3 gpt, for Code of Laws and Warrior Code; Literature to Theodora, with 2 gpt, for Philosophy.


925 (3): A barb warrior gets lucky against the Enk holding Akshak. We lose the Enk (0-1) and 4 gold.

We get the "massive barbarian uprising" warning, so someone we don't know is in the Middle Ages. The barbs are on the southern isthmus, so we may not be able to settle there for a while.


900 (4): Eech granary --> library.


875 (5): Super library --> Enk, LagLouts granary --> library.


850 (6): We found Kisurrathing in the eastern river valley.


825 (7): Urrrp library --> settler, Bad Bad Bad library --> FP.


800 (8): We deal with seventeen Sarbadar horsemen in the heroic fashion, by leaving Akshak open for them. :lol: We lose a pop point and a little gold. All this trouble in the area means that the Babs will beat us to the isthmus, though.


775 (9): Another five barb horsemen disappear into Akshak.


750 (10): A Kish Before Dying library --> curragh.


730 (11)-710 (12): Not much.


690 (13): Eech library --> settler.

The Babs found Sippar on our isthmus, with a settler landed from a galley.

After a cascade distributes various Wonders around the other, more advanced continent(s), the Byzantines build the Great Library.


670 (14): Dyes to the Babs for 138 gold, after which we can research Republic at 100% at a deficit, due in eight turns. A strictly local Republic slingshot might still be possible.


650 (15): Zzzz....


630 (16): Aaargh, the Babs have Republic. All we can hope for now is that it'll have some trade value with the Byzantines.

Hammurabi extorts 24 gold from us.

A barb warrior dies attacking an Enk (1-1).


610 (17): We found Der on the isthmus. We'll be able to put two cities there, despite Babylonian Sippar.

One of our curraghs repels the attack of a barb galley (2-1), but another sinks trying to reach land off our south coast.

Laglouts library --> settler, ZabalamThankYouMa'am library --> barracks.


590 (18): We finally make a new contact, the Mongols, only because they've come to us. We're able to trade them Literature and 15 gold for HBR. Then HBR to the Byzantines for Masonry, CB, and 94 gold; and HBR to the Babs for 35 gold (as they're obviously researching it).

Then, since we can finally see some new techs, 16 gpt to the Mongols for Mathematics; and Mathematics and 8 gpt to the Babs for Map Making.

We found Kua on the isthmus.


570 (19): Zzzzzz....


550 (20): We contact the Persians, again through no merit of our own. Xerxes gives us Mysticism and 18 gold for Literature.

Our northern curragh sinks another barb galley (3-1).

Republic --> Currency.


530 (21): Republic has no trade value to speak of. So we get the worst possible result, in terms of the tech pace--we spent a long time on Republic, and so did most of the AI civs.

Speaking of the worst possible result, we draw eight turns of anarchy when we revolt.

Theodora extorts 25 gold from us. I heroically repress seven gender-based jokes. :mischief:


510 (22): Anarchy.


490 (23): One of our curraghs survives a sea crossing, and we meet Cleo, who remarkably is interested in Republic. After the tedious MM necessary before a gpt deal in anarchy, we send her Republic and 7 gpt for Currency and Polytheism.

We should have made the vital contacts with the Egyptians and the Persians much earlier, because they're close. I don't think our first curragh to reach the east coast moved in the proper pattern.


470 (24): Anarchy.


450 (25): We found the fill-in town of Marad.


430 (26): We found Kuara on our northeast coast.


410 (27): Anarchy.


390 (28): We establish a republic.


370 (29): We buy Construction from Xerxes for 28 gpt, hoping that our free MA tech will let us get the money back. This works as well as all our other tech gambits so far, when we draw Monotheism which is already widespread, and which fetches us nothing but 10 gpt and 3 gold from the Mongols.


350 (30): Not much.

Thanks to gpt payments, we've got an extreme case of the early-republic cash crunch. We're at -11 gpt and we aren't even conducting research. But the financial situation should improve quickly, as usual. We'll be able to trade our dyes to the Babs again in four turns (presumably for their silks), and some gpt payments will expire in eight.

A phony war, to allow one Enk victory and trigger our GA, would be highly useful at this point. The geography isn't ideal, but if any rival other than Babylon puts a unit onto our territory, we should probably try the gambit of making them furious with demands and then insisting on the unit's withdrawal when we know they'll declare war.

LagLouts will work as a two-turn worker pump, even with a specialist assigned, as soon as one more of its plains tiles is irrigated. Three of our new cities are starting with worker builds. We should resist the temptation to build workers elsewhere, even though we badly need them, because our cities with granaries have to grow if our economy is to improve.

We're building two marketplaces not because the builds are obviously right--with limited luxuries available, they may not be--but for lack of alternatives, given that we can't afford to increase our unit costs at this point. These builds can definitely be changed if something better comes along.

Our strictly theoretical choice of Theology as a research target rests on the hope that it, or PP after it, might serve as trade bait. But we should reconsider our options from scratch when we can actually afford to resume research.

So, who's up? :satan:

The eastern seas:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/SP4-350BC.JPG

Well, I followed NP during the first round, if I recall ...
So I guess it's me? I've Got It, and I'll probably play today .. maybe.

Once again, this thread has been revived, and it seems it is tradition, so even NP took some time in his turnset.;)

Sitrep
I've had a look around. As it's been a while since we visited this world I figured a situation report might be in order, and maybe a small review and discussion of our objectives?

Economy:
Running a -11 gpt deficit, with 38 in the bank and sliders at 8.0.2.
Spending 36gpt on unit support for 19 Enkidus, 8 workers, 2 cats, 2 archers, 2 curraghs.
Spending 15gpt on maintenance for libraries, barracks, granaries.
Sending 59 gpt to other civs. The first gpt deals will expire in 8 turns releasing 24gpt.
If we are able to get silks from Babs in 4 turns we'll be able to turn the lux slider down to 10%. If we only have to give dyes for silks we'll be close to break even, still at zero research, but we are equal on cities, so we may also have to pay some gpt.

Technology
We are at parity with Xerxes and behind everyone else by Monarchy and Feudalism. Babs and Theo also have Engineering.

Resources
We have no horses and no iron. Interestingly, neither do any of the civs we know, though we don't know if this is because there isn't any, or they just haven't hooked them up yet.

Military Options
We have an almost entirely defensive army of 19 Enkidu Warriors. They can upgrade to pikes (if we had iron) and thence to rifles. So our current military options are extremely limited.

Our nearest, dearest neighbour has Bowmen. With no iron, pikes are not on the menu yet, so I guess an attack on Babs has to use longbows defended by Enkidus. Such an attack would likely trigger both our GAs. Babs lies between us and the Mongols, who can't build Keshiks without horses.

Xerxes is reachable by galley. With no iron and no Immortals he will only have spears and archers. I'm sure he'd have hooked iron up if he had it. However, with only four cities, no resources, and living right next to culture-vulture Egypt, his value as a target is only to provide a foothold for taking on Cleo. Cleo can't build war chariots without horses.

Theo might also be reachable by galley, judging by the way the coastlines converge into the western fog, but we would have to arrange a ROP with Babs to do so. We can't even afford an embassy yet (33 gold followed by bankrupcy), but I imagine they would give us a ROP if we asked. However, Theo has the Dromon, and so seaborne losses could be heavy.

Foreign Affairs:
Weak vs. Egypt, Babs, Byzantine, Mongols.
Strong vs. Persia. He has lost workers to Japan, China and Egypt, so has been weakened by war. If we want someone to pick on to get our Golden Age going, Xerxes is a prime target. However, waiting around for someone to poke with a stick is a bit optimistic.

MM:
Bad Bad Bad can get to pop 7 if we focus on the flood plains for three turns. That'll give +2gpt unit support, then it can go back to emphasise production for the FP build. We can't afford to increase lux tax, so there's no point growing it further after that, as it will just create unproductive entertainers.

Juggling Super, Eech and Urrrp to use the river tiles I get the deficit down to -9gpt. There are two roads coming into operation in the next tow turns, so that should reduce the deficit further. So we can survive until teh Babs/dyes deal renews. Depending on the cost of that renewal I may need to disband one or two cats. Hope no one minds :D

Current worker activity:
We seem to be building mines on bare grass, and we have adjacent roaded tiles with no mine or irrigation. Also, we have workers operating in areas where we have enough improved tiles already, while other towns are working unimproved tiles and/or are not connected to the road network :hmm: Roads are productive 3 turns faster than mines, and building a road first can also open up options for stacking workers to complete mines faster when required, without sacrificing worker movement turns. In the current economic situation I'm even more inclined to build roads first.

Objectives
We want to launch as soon as possible. So we need to get to four turn research, which is a stretch from our current position. Clearly the first order of business is to get our economy into better shape. That means roads, markets and libraries. It probably also means more towns to sustain a larger standing army. The Pyramids would be a big help to get our population growing faster, and they are in Babylon, not far away.

If this world is really as limited for luxuries as it appears then maybe we should gear up for lots of small towns rather than our current wide spacing, which would only come into its own if we could sustain metropolises? I can see spots for several more towns to infill our current territory. Every extra town adds a minimum of 3gpt - 2 from the city center and 1 for unit support.

Any comments? Or shall I just dive in and play it by ear?

Excellent summary. :goodjob: As regards "We want to launch as fast as possible", we seem never to have clarified our basic objectives, because I thought we were playing for fast domination or conquest. ;) I wouldn't mind switching to the space victory, but perhaps the other members of the team--if they've overcome their horror at still having to play this one :lol:--have opinions?

If you must disband something, I'd choose Enks, which have no MP value in republic. The cats will be useful when we go to war with slow units.

Excellent summary. :goodjob: As regards "We want to launch as fast as possible", we seem never to have clarified our basic objectives, because I thought we were playing for fast domination or conquest. ;) I wouldn't mind switching to the space victory, but perhaps the other members of the team--if they've ovecome their horror at still having to play this one :lol:--have opinions?Sorry, wasn't suggesting a switch. I confused the game's name with the required VC. It's been so long :rolleyes: No, by all means let's stick to a fast VC ... please! In as much as anything we do in this game can be described as "fast"

If you must disband something, I'd choose Enks, which have no MP value in republic. The cats will be useful when we go to war with slow units.Ok, you're right. My prejudices against cats are showing again.

No, by all means let's stick to a fast VC ... please!

Yes, a condition which would require us to play another six rounds each would definitely be tempting fate, in the circumstances. :D

OK. We stick to what I know best. Beating the bejeezers out of the AI. There's just the novelty of doing it one ... tile ... at ... a ... time :eek:

So I guess it's me? I've Got It, and I'll probably play today .. maybe.
Great stuff Alan & NP -> Keeping this game alive!

I was going to say that I didn't know who's turn it was, but I was fairly sure it wasn't mine, 'cause I played a few months back. :smug:

Turn 110 350 BC Preflight
MM Super, Urrrp, Eech to get deficit to -9gpt. Adjust Bad Bad Bad to speed up pop growth to pop 7 in 3 turns.

Hit return.

IBT
An Egyptian galley hoves into view near Def.

Turn 111 330 BC
Worker has completed road on sugar cane near Bad Bad Bad. Deficit down to -8gpt.
Worker to plains tile to provide another improved tile for Babylon's Block.
Worker on bare grass near Eech starts road.
Curragh near Persia sails NE and sees China's border. There's a Mongol SOD of 7 archers in Chinese territory, and no China contact yet.
Curragh in north sails SE.
Switch In Your Face to Worker from Harbour. It has a clown currently, as it's unconnected, so might as well get him working to connect the town and increase its output.

IBT
Mongol SOD moevs south and Persian spear seen defending Arbela against an attack. So Mongols are still at war with Persia.
Egyptian galley heads south into fog.
Laglouts completes worker. Starts worker.
Der riots. Didn't notice it grew! Hire a taxman.
Mongols start Sun Tzu
Byzantine start Leo's, so Invention is out there.

Turn 112 310 BC
Kisurrathing has grown. Hire a taxman.
Babylon's Block has grown. Hire a taxman.
Curraghs move. North eastern one meets Chinese spear in Tsingtao.
Mao is annoyed and is up Feudalism and Monarchy. He has horses, spices and gems hooked up. 14 cities, 7 gold. No deals, of course.
MM everything, deficit is now -2gpt. 23 gold in the bank.
Diplo check - no change. 2 turns left on Babs dyes deal.

IBT
China complais about our little rowing boat.
Egyptian glley reappears near Der, where order is restored.
A Mongol galley appears near Arbela (Persia).
Babs is building Leo's, so he has Invention.

Turn 113 290 BC
Adjust everything again. We are now at +10gpt with 21 gold in the bank. Tempted to start research - 10% would give 18bpt and -5gpt deficit. Decide to wait for the trade renewal with Babs next turn.
Curraghs move. NE one sees a Mongol border north east of Tsingtao. Mongols are everywhere!
Diplo check - Egypt has iron. China has horses.

IBT
Egyptian galley south again. Seems to be on patrol. Persian galley appears near Tsingtao.
Laglouts completes worker - starts worker.
A Kish completes Harbour, starts Market - feel free to review.
Kua completes worker, starts barracks

Turn 114 270 BC
Check in with Babs. Dyes deal has disappeared from the active trades, but our assets list doesn't include dyes! Try save, quit and relaunch. No change!

Here's a screenshot of the F4 screen showing Active deals with Hammy - dyes has disappeared (I didn't cancel it), and doesn't show as an available trade option. The F2 screen shows 3 dyes available and no exports. I've attached the saves at 290 BC end of turn, and 270 BC start of turn. I tried replaying this IBT with "Always Renegotiate Deals" set (I normally play with it disabled so that I can choose when to renegotiate). It had no effect.

Maybe Ainwood can see what's going on in the save?

I'll pause at this point while we work out what's going on. If this is a problem with the Mac version of C3C I'm running, I may need someone else to play this turn at least, and I'll report it to Aspyr.

290BC: Dyes shown as 1 turn remaining. Renegotiate deals is turned on.
270BC: Dyes deal appears to have expired. Renegotiate deals is turned OFF.

That's because I tried changing the reneg deals flag, with no effect, and the 270 BC file is as I normally play.

290BC: Dyes shown as 1 turn remaining. Renegotiate deals is turned on.
270BC: Dyes deal appears to have expired. Renegotiate deals is turned OFF.
In 270 BC are you able to sell dyes for silks?

In 270 BC are you able to sell dyes for silks?
No - I think that its because the babs have hooked-up their own source of dyes. This would also explain the deal not going to auto-renegotiate - babs won't renegotiate a deal that they won't make in the first place.

Doh! Never occurred to me they might have their own dyes. I guess my confidence level in the (Mac) C3C software is not high yet, so I'm looking for bugs instead of thinking about the game.

I'll play on and complete my ten.

Ugh, that's quite a setback. Well done on the MM so far. :thumbsup:

Turn 114 270 BC Continued
Workers work, Curraghs sail - Mongol city seen in NE has expanded borders.
Laglouts is now settled into its 2 turn worker factory mode.
Diplo: Arbela has fallen to the Mongol hordes. Persia is down to 2 cities, Sardis and capital, Antioch. We could trade with Byzantines ... if we and they had anything to offer.
We have +4gpt and 33 gold.

IBT
In Your face - Worker, starts harbour

Turn 115 250 BC
Nothing much. We have +8 gpt after optimisation, and 12 gold.
We now have 12 workers - 3 are working to connect the outlying towns.

IBT
Mongols complain about our curragh. We agree to leave ... eventually.
Bowman appears in eastern mountains. Memo to self - move Enkidu to undefended town in the area.
Laglouts worker, starts worker.
Der worker, starts barracks

Turn 116 230 BC
The northern curragh has established that the land it's scouting is an uninhabited island. It's reachable by galley from the (also uninhabited) coast north of Babylon, so it won't stay vacant for long.
We now have +4gpt and 45 gold.
Persia is now playing an OCC in Antioch, and has Monarchy. he's still in Republic.
Move two Enkidu to Akshak to defend against possible sneak attack by Babs bowman.

IBT
Babs spear appears near our eastern towns, bowman moves towards Der.
Super Harbour, starts settler - we need more towns.

Byzantines are building Knights Templar, so Chivalry has happened.

Turn 117 210 BC
+3gpt, 49 gold. Next turn we stop paying 24 gpt to Babs and Mongols. Maybe that's why Babs is heading our way?

IBT
Babs bowman hangs around outside Der border. Spear approaches border. Not sure what they are up to.
The Egyptians destroy Persia. That'll help the economy, I think, as we were paying them 28gpt.
Laglouts completes worker, starts worker.
Babs' Block completes Library, starts Archer

Turn 118 190 BC
We now have 61gpt positive cash flow and 83 in the bank.
Babs wants 11gpt + 9 for silks. Theodora wants 10gpt + 50 for Incense. There are no Tech deals available. It looks like we could reduce lux tax to 10% if we had silks, and that would liberate 11gpt. So a deal with Babs only looks like break even. If we did both lux deals it would cost us equivalent to 24gpt. If we can zero the lux slider we gain this. BUT next turn Urrrp's market comes on stream. That gets us another 9gpt, and if we delayed the lux deals they would get more expensive because of the market. So I decide to do the deals. We have two more markets coming on stream before the 20 turns are up as well. I'll go for max gpt to Babs to minimise the risk if he decides to declare. Spend a bit of gold with Theo to reduce the impact if we get demands.

OK. Let's see if theory and practice are anywhere close!
Dial up Babs and buy Silks for 11gpt + 9 gold.
Lux slider to 10% and re-optimise towns. We get 62gpt, so no loss, but a couple of extra taxmen, so production and growth are down a bit. Let's try the other half of the deal.
Dial up Theo and buy Incense for 10gpt + 50 gold.
Drop lux slider to zero and re-optimise- we end up at 57gpt, so we lost 4gpt + 59 gold on the deal.
Let's see what happens at 10% lux: That gets us only 50gpt, but we only have 5 taxmen, instead of 9 plus a couple of entertainers before we started. So growth and productivity should be up. And our market in Urrrp next turn should help increase the revenues. This looks like the best arrangement.
We could research Theology at a 25 turn pace without going bankrupt. However, I suspect it's already too late to start on that so I leave the science slider at zero for now.

IBT
Babs bowman marches up to the gates of Der! Not good!
Urrrp competes Marketplace, starts Archer.

Turn 119 170 BC
+62gpt, 74 gold
Somewhat belatedly I wake up the archers lounging about in Urrrp and Super, and move them sloooowly towards our Babs borders.
Start two chops that can be used for archers, and move a worker to another forest near Babs' Block to chop another archer.
Still not sure what the Babs bowman's motives are. He can't take out Der in one shot, as there are two defenders. It has a less than 50:50 probability of success against a fortified Enk. best hope is we get a GA out of it. Maybe he just wants to get to Sippar. There's no point in preemptively asking him to leave, as I don't have an attacker to respond if he declares. I have to hope to defend. Hit return and hope ...

IBT
Babs units move towards Sippar. So no fight :), and no GA :(
Laglouts completes worker, starts worker.
Zabala,ThankYouMa'am completes Harbour, starts Barracks. After all, we do have a military objective!
Kuara completes worker, starts worker.

Turn 120 250 BC
Business as usual.
66 gpt, 136 gold in the bank. 10 taxmen.

Post Action Report for the Next Better Player
There are several chops in progress.
Two near Babs' Block can complete an archer there after the current one completes in three turns. One hasn't started chopping yet.
One near Urrrp can help build an archer there.
One between Urrrp and Eech can contribute to the Market at Eeech, as long as it can be redirected away from Urrrp. The third between Urrrp and A Kish can contribute to A Kish's market, though ensuring that may be difficult, as it competes on the same turn as the first Urrrp one. SOrry about that.

We could get Engineering for all our cash plus under 40gpt right now. Feudalism is Getting Close with all our worldly goods.

There's a settler about to complete in Super. Feel free to change it to something else before completion, but I felt we needed to expand. Not sure where to put a town. There's a spot between Laglots and A Kish Before Dying, or we could encroach on the Babs outpost in the north east. Our city layout isn't very conducive to infilling unless we are going for an ICS pattern.

Laglouts is now over-producing as a worker factory, and maybe we don't need it to do that for a little while. P'raps we should go all out for Invention and a longbow rush on Babs?

150 BC Save attached ...

Who's up?

Last time I played, Ted followed me. Is there anybody there? One knock for yes, two for no :mischief:

P'raps we should go all out for Invention and a longbow rush on Babs?

Yes, that's the basic idea. Unless they've recently acquired iron, we'd be making 4-2 attacks.

Good work managing our unpromising economy.

Who's up?

Last time I played, Ted followed me. Is there anybody there? One knock for yes, two for no :mischief:

Well, apart from you and me, only Ainwood has been unwise enough to admit to his continued existence. So, Ainwood? ;)

...only Ainwood has been unwise enough to admit to his continued existence...

:lol:


...errr...

I'm not here! I'm not here! I'm not here! ;)

At this rate, it'll be 2008 (2 years) when you'd acheive a time victory.
120 turns vs 143 days to complete them. :lol:
Sorry, i just had to do that

Very droll. :rotfl:

I could play 10 as a guest player.

I'm looking for bugs instead of thinking about the game.To paraphrase another thread on a similar subject, you do program too much :wow: :lol:

I am still alive! :D

As I said somewhere, sometime ago, have been out of business for a few weeks due to work travels all over Europe.
But I'm back now, and I will not abandon this game... ;)

...which, however, should not be read as a 'got it'... :mischief:

Heh! It comes to something when the players are out-posted by the lurkers!

Well, sort yourselves out, guys ... is it to be ainwood or Karasu, or a zerksees guest spot ... or is Ted or our mystery player still in the wings? Are we back to the usual schedule? 24 hours days to post a got it and 72 hours days to play? :mischief:

I could play 10 as a guest player.

Yes, please go ahead. :goodjob:

Alright I've got it now. Plan to play within 48 hours, and might take an extra day after that to get the write up posted.

Sure. I'd tell you to take your time, if it wouldn't be so magnificently redundant in this game....:lol:

Bear in mind that we'd be glad to trigger our GA in a safe war (i.e., not against Babylon), so you could certainly reject demands from any other civ, if you're confident in the military situation.

Thanks - any other general strategy suggestions would be helpful. I have not looked at the game save yet, but my current general plan is to focus on infrastructure at this time.

Well, our main goal is to get Engineering --> Feudalism --> Invention (definitely in this order, to start building trebs as soon as possible) so that we can attack the Babs with longbowmen. The trade situation is completely unpromising, since all our rivals already have Eng. and Feudalism. So I think we should self-research those two techs, probably at 40%, and with all our taxmen changed into scientists. This way we'll be eligible for Invention in about fourteen turns, with most of our gpt available if we want to buy it. I doubt that there's a quicker way to Invention in this position.

It's not easy to find useful infrastructure builds for our cities, since most have their cheap libraries, and not all can profit from marketplaces (though Super, Akshak, and Kisurrathing could use them).

We could let the archers in Urrrp and Babylon's Block complete (not the archer in Akshak, since there's no barracks there :nono: ;)), but I wouldn't bother building any more. I don't expect we'll have much cash for upgrades when we get Invention.

What I do think would help us in this period of waiting is a programme of building catapults and then trebuchets. Given the kind of campaign we'll be fighting against the Babs--one with slow units alone, and not many of them--even the anti-catapult faction would have to grant that bombardment units will be vital. :D

I'd keep running LagLouts as a two-turn worker pump--there's still a lot of work to be done on our lands--but cancel all other worker builds.

I'd change the settler build in Super to a marketplace, as Alan has more or less suggested. Our good cities have to grow--so we should also move a garrison into Eech and put the specialist there to real work.

Note that an iron mountain is now visible in the north of our continent. If you'd like a more aggressive project for your round, you could try to get a settler and an Enk up there in a galley, or at least get the process started. It would take us forever to get the iron hooked up, but just denying it to other civs would be worthwhile, on what's obviously an iron-poor world.

Are we back to the usual schedule? 24 hours days to post a got it and 72 hours days to play? :mischief:

Its Official Space Rules, you got 24 days to post a got it, and 72 days to play.:lol: Isnt it like that in all games that include mods and people with tags under their name? :hmm:

Well, our main goal is to get Engineering --> Feudalism --> Invention (definitely in this order, to start building trebs as soon as possible) so that we can attack the Babs with longbowmen. The trade situation is completely unpromising, since all our rivals already have Eng. and Feudalism. So I think we should self-research those two techs, probably at 40%, and with all our taxmen changed into scientists. This way we'll be eligible for Invention in about fourteen turns, with most of our gpt available if we want to buy it. I doubt that there's a quicker way to Invention in this position.
I'm not sure about self research. I think buying techs is cheaper than self-research at this level, adn if we can find Japan (probably SE of our scouting curragh) that will further reduce tech prices and/or create trading opportunities. So another option is to build a cash mountain and buy when the prices are right. None of the techs are urgent until we move into warmongering mode.

It's not easy to find useful infrastructure builds for our cities, since most have their cheap libraries, and not all can profit from marketplaces (though Super, Akshak, and Kisurrathing could use them). Agreed. Barracks would be useful in productive towns where we don't have them

We could let the archers in Urrrp and Babylon's Block complete (not the archer in Akshak, since there's no barracks there :nono: ;)), but I wouldn't bother building any more. Sorry, was that me? Barracks there first then.
I don't expect we'll have much cash for upgrades when we get Invention.We'll need a certain number of longbows to hit Babs (15-20?), so we need to find the quickest way to get them. It may be better to build archers while we can, and delay buying Invention until we have enough cash in the bank to do upgrades, rather than start hand building them when we have it. We'd probably need a spreadsheet to work out the fastest route.

What I do think would help us in this period of waiting is a programme of building catapults and then trebuchets. Given the kind of campaign we'll be fighting against the Babs--one with slow units alone, and not many of them--even the anti-catapult faction would have to grant that bombardment units will be vital. :D Yup! Did I really say that?

I'd keep running LagLouts as a two-turn worker pump--there's still a lot of work to be done on our lands--but cancel all other worker builds.For a little while, yes, but we are actually getting on pretty well with improvements now.

I'd change the settler build in Super to a marketplace, as Alan has more or less suggested. Our good cities have to grow--so we should also move a garrison into Eech and put the specialist there to real work.Garrisons won't do any good - we are in Republic. I still think we need some more cities to help with unit support, though there are only a few spots for them. Maybe Laglouts can help with that if Super switches?

Note that an iron mountain is now visible in the north of our continent. If you'd like a more aggressive project for your round, you could try to get a settler and an Enk up there in a galley, or at least get the process started. It would take us forever to get the iron hooked up, but just denying it to other civs would be worthwhile, on what's obviously an iron-poor world.
Missed that! I was looking out for iron, too. I aree we should go for it. All the more reason to build a settler or two.

Thanks for all the input, but I played the game before it was posted.

So we will see how what I did matches up with your suggestions.

Pre-flight

Change Bab Block to market
MM A Kish to make more shields
Change Zablam to market

IBT
Urrp: archer -> temple (worth it to get happiness in capital with shortage of lux IMO)
Super: settler -> market
Kisurrathing: lib -> archer (34 turns to finish market is too long atm)

Turn 1: 130 BC
Put science up to 40% - theology in 17 and –12 gpt (we have close to 198 gold). I am going to put some research into this and use it as trade bait
Workers busy. Not sure where to put the settler, after some debate decide to put it between A Kish and Super.
IBT:
Laglouts: worker -> worker (a sweet 2-turn worker factory btw)
Akshak: archer -> archer

Babs start Knights Templar

Turn 2: 110 BC
Not much – workers busy and watching the MM. I switched some taxmen to scientists in these early turns

IBT:
Marad: Library -> archer
Byzantines building Sistine Chapel. So much for the monopoly on theology.

Turn 3: 90 BC
Notice the Byzantines have iron
Found city of Sardine as it is packed in a little tight

IBT:
Laglouts: worker -> worker

Turn 4: 70 BC
Having some regret about starting theology. Too late now. If it doesn’t work my guest spot will be one time only.
Two Bab units have been working their way west through our lands.

IBT:
Urrp: temple -> archer
In your face: worker -> worker
Egypt starts Knights Templar
See a dromon visiting our waters

Turn 5: 50 BC
Theodora still holds monopoly on theology. It is doubtful she will sell it for 68 gpt + 171 gold.
Notice China has horses – so the game is not horseless after all
Our damaged curragh makes contact with barb galley

IBT:
Curragh is sunk by barb galley
Laglouts: worker -> market
Eech: market -> temple

Turn 6: 30 BC
Theodora still holds monopoly on theology. Not sure how long this can last. Crank science down and buy it from her. Ouch it was expensive: 152 gold and 87 gpt.
Need to get some return on this investment.
Sold theology to China collecting feudalism and engineering. The workers are glad they can cross rivers without stopping!
Tried to get invention but not enough gpt left to buy it.
Sold theology to Babylon collecting 40 gold (all their gold) and chivalry
Sold theology to Mongols collecting 41 gold (all their gold) 2 gpt and monarchy
(Net 3 good techs, two other techs, costing 71 gold and 85 gpt – this seems average to me)
“We are technologically advanced!” proclaims our science advisor :)
Start printing press with lone scientist, converting remaining scientists to taxmen

Noticed Egypt also has iron now

We now have a small deficit with lux at 10%, but almost 100 gold in reserve

IBT:
Urrp: archer -> archer

Turn 7: 10 BC
MM all the cities to get to –4 gpt
Workers working
Lots of civs now have invention, and some education

IBT:
A dark green galley flashed across the screen.
Marad: archer -> market

Turn 8: 10 AD
No Christians spotted yet.
Recalled where I’d seen the green galley, and sent our lone curragh to meet it. Japan has iron, horses, wines, furs, gems (none extra), 86 gold and is at tech parity. Head east through Mongol territory to try to find Japan mainland.
Somehwere in here I was able to get Bad Bad Bad up to 4 shields to shorten time to complete forbidden palace

IBT:
Urrp: archer -> archer

Turn 9: 30 AD
Change Akshak to marketplace

IBT:
A Kish: market -> archer
Kuara: worker -> settler

Turn 10: 50 AD
Struggling with the MM. Still running a deficit. Gave up some shields to get more gold.

Summary:
Completed Libraries: 2, Markets: 2, Temples: 1

Add 5 workers, 5 archers, lost a curragh

Made one round of trades getting feudalism, engineering, theology (and chivalry and monarchy as a bonus) costing 85 gpt and 71 gold

Made contact with Japan and they are at tech parity with us.

Several civs building Knights Templar and Sistine. Can’t recall if Leo’s was started.

No AI's made any demands.

Next 10:
On the preflight you may choose to block in the Bab units crossing our land. May be a good way to trigger the war/GA with the remove or declare ultimatum
Find ways to increase gold to balance the budget
Head east through Mongol territory to find Japan homeland
Get ready to fight the Babs?
Printing press is a good way to get a monopoly tech IMO, and I would use it to buy other techs (including invention) when it is complete. Worst case is if you change paths we are out a few turns of a lone scientist at work.

The save: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Space4_50AD.SAV

{Whoops, colossal cross-post. Thanks for playing, Zerksees. Fine work on the tech trading. :goodjob:}

I'm not sure about self research. I think buying techs is cheaper than self-research at this level, adn if we can find Japan (probably SE of our scouting curragh) that will further reduce tech prices and/or create trading opportunities. So another option is to build a cash mountain and buy when the prices are right. None of the techs are urgent until we move into warmongering mode.

It's a difficult call, certainly. I was influenced by the fact that we can't afford to buy both Engineering and Feudalism at the moment, and tying up our gpt for twenty turns to get just one of the three techs we need seems a discouraging prospect.

Garrisons won't do any good - we are in Republic.

This is what I get for playing multiple succession and solo games, in only one of which my civ is in republic. :blush:

Missed that! I was looking out for iron, too. I aree we should go for it. All the more reason to build a settler or two.

If you want to do this, Zerksees, I won't object to your letting the settler in Super complete.

Good work, Zerksees :thumbsup: Confirmed my prejudice that trade is cheaper (and quicker) than research at this level ;) Now we need some *more* cash :p

Thanks guys. I was a little concerned about all the gpt - but quite sure it was still faster than researching yourself. If I waited too long other civs would have gotten theology and it would have lost value and I may have missed the two important techs.

For the record I missed the iron you are talking about. We should try to get it. I did change one of our dinky towns to a galley after the curragh sank.

Is someone "in charge" now that Space has given up on playing the game? Does anyone care to keep up a roster?

Does anyone care to keep up a roster?
:lol: :rotfl: :lol:
That's a good one :D

Last roster was on post #126, 3 pages away.:scan:

Northern Pike
Karasu
Ainwood
AlanH
TedJackson
Space
zerksees(?)
mad-bax

that is not the order, but anyone care to organize it?:D

Well, the recent order was:

Northern Pike - played recently
AlanH - played recently
zerksees - just played
ainwood - probably still on the roster - I vote for him as next UP
Karasu - seems to be avoiding commitment, hasn't played a set yet, but still around

others we should probably write off:

TedJackson - MIA a while ago
Space - has other things to do
mad-bax - popped his head round the door and hasn't been seen since

After 27 days I say: Does anyone want to play a turnset?

After 27 days I say: Does anyone want to play a turnset?

It only 27 days; lets not be hasty. :nono:

Please let's not rush them, this game takes a lot of reflexion. Let the great minds think, please ;)

You know a SG is special when they have time to run elections on the roster at every turnset

I vote for him as next UP

Yeah - I might play in a month or two. :p

I'm definitely planning to play another round this summer. This game has not perished! :rotfl:

Edit: I think it's a legitimate miracle, given the frequency of posts in this thread, that I managed to cross-post with Ainwood. :lol:

It is! :eek: :clap: :lol:

Team, I am sorry to announce my defection :(

I realised I can no longer find the time for any kind of Civ game -not even this!

Well, what else can I say... mates, playing with you has been a blast.
Keep on having fun :thumbsup:

Lorenzo

Last save was 2 months ago. :rotfl:

Team, I am sorry to announce my defection :(

I realised I can no longer find the time for any kind of Civ game -not even this!

Well, what else can I say... mates, playing with you has been a blast.
Keep on having fun :thumbsup:

LorenzoOrdinarily I would jump (well, at least hop) at the chance to join an SG like this one. But I've only been lurking for two and a half months (mid May 2006). To truly be considered as a possible member of this SG I think I need to lurk at least six months.

:hmm: Hmm, not many threads have a probationary lurking period.

I'm definitely planning to play another round this summer.You've got 12 days left - no rush

Bloody-heck! I missed Karasu posting! :cry:

You've got 12 days left - no rush

And now nine days--it may still happen! :D

I missed Karasu's post too. If you're still checking in, Karasu (and who could abandon this electric thread entirely? :lol:), goodbye and good luck. :hatsoff:

I'm definitely planning to play another round this summer. This game has not perished! :rotfl:

This post was on June 30, over two months and eight (count 'em, eight) posts ago.
Northern Pike's summer may have started later than anyone else's.

This game looks dead to me - unless some revivalist takes over that is.

(Spammish post to get the attention of the original players in a shameless attempt to get it going again)

I'm still here, but I wouldn't want to auto-skip the player with the mouse after such a short time.

My self-imposed six-month lurking period ended last Friday, from Post #143.

But I didn't want to be too hasty and start playing right away.

I think I'll wait until after this Thanksgiving (2006) before I try to play a set of turns, when I find some time that isn't take up with other Civ SGs and spamming and pompous advice giving and taking out the trash and watching the paint dry and other important matters of state.

I'm delighted to see there's still some interest in this one. :goodjob: As a matter of fact, I've played up to 720 AD; I just haven't felt any urgency about posting, since I assumed I'd probably be finishing the game by myself. I need to tidy up the position a bit, but I'll post the save and a report as soon as possible, to take advantage of this sudden wave of enthusiasm. :lol:

People are posting here...? *looks around for a place to hide but can't find any...*

What a surprise to find this thread suddenly appearing in my CP! :thumbsup:
I'm in a cIV HoF spree ATM, so I won't be playing, but if people don't mind, I will be make stander-by remarks from time to time. :)

Space!!!! Nice to see you :)

We know where you live ... there *is* no hiding place :p

T-plus 5 months, since last save. :p

Well I took a turnset in June - and I did not want to play another one until someone else played. Since my Madagascar game was up I thought I'd bump this one to see what would happen. And there is a lot more response than I expected.

I had hoped someone would step up and take the lead. Space - since you have graced us with your presence perhaps you could name someone from the original group to take the helm of this great odyssey game.

720 AD, end of turn (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/33960/SP4-720AD.SAV)

50 AD-310 AD: We build quietly and wait for our crushing gpt payments to expire. We can't even afford to renew our lux deals.

Our attempt to get a settler to the northern iron by galley narrowly fails. It's too bad we didn't act on this earlier.


310: Dyes and 50 gpt to Cleo for Education; Education to Tokugawa for Invention and 2 gold.


390: For God knows what reason, our deal with Cleo above has ended (which at least releases a lot of gpt), and our reputation is wrecked with everyone except the Babylonians. So, since it's time for war with Hammso anyway, we'll rip him off as grossly as possible while he still trusts us. :evil: Banking from Babylon for 80 gpt, and Gunpowder from Babylon for 53gpt, after which Banking to Japan for Chemistry and minor considerations.

We have saltpetre, though not hooked up.

We declare war on Babylon, attempts to get them to declare having proven futile, and get back our 133 gpt. We invade with a minimal force of about ten LB and ten trebs.


400: We bombard and take Nineveh, held by four spearmen and an LB, without loss (5-0). We capture two workers. I keep the city rather than razing it for the sake of Knights Templar.


410: We take Eridu, held by two spearmen (7-0).

Outside cities we cut down two Bab LB (9-0).


420: An Enk defeats the attack of a Bab LB (10-0), and we enter our GA.


430: We bombard and raze Samarra, held by three spearmen, without loss (13-0). We gain five slaves by capture and razing.

We found War ina Babylon near the ruins of Samarra.


450: 1-0 outside cities (14-0).

We get to Printing Press just a little too late--one turn, I think--and it has minimal trade value.


460: We bombard and take Sippar, held by four spearmen, and Ellipi, held by two spearmen and an LB (21-0).

The PP gambit having failed, we'll abuse poor Hammurabi's trust again. We buy Astronomy and Metallurgy from him for gpt as part of a peace treaty--this can be done however bad one's reputation, of course--and then re-declare war.

470: Two Bab LB attack the Enks covering our SoD near Babylon; one succeeds and one fails (22-1).

We finally complete the FP in Bad Bad Bad.


480: Savage fighting at the walls of Babylon, as we smite five spearmen, lose one LB, but don't finish off the garrison (27-2).


490: We slay another three spearmen in Babylon (30-2) and take the city, capturing the Pyramids, Copernicus, and three workers.

1-0 outside cities (31-2).


500: We take Ashur, held by two spearmen (33-2).

1-0 elsewhere (34-2).

We contact Hammurabi, and...you know the drill by now ;): we gain Military Tradition, six slaves, and 3 gold for gpt in a peace treaty, then return to war.


510: We bombard and take Zariqum, held by two spearmen (36-2). We now hold all the Bab cities founded on our soil.


520: We discover Physics by our own efforts, and we're fully caught up in required techs.


530: We take Akkad, held by two spearmen (38-2).


560: Our offensive has slowed down because the Babs are being viciously dogpiled, and the Byzantines and the Mongols are taking their cities before we can reach them.

We found One Step Forward, claiming silks and bringing us closer to the present Bab capital of Eulbar.


570: We just beat the Byzantines into Eulbar, held by four spearmen after Theodora's previous attacks (42-2).

An Enk on a mountain defeats the attack of a Bab LB (43-2).


590: Navigation is in circulation, and map trades gain us most of the WM.

We're first to Theory of Gravity.

We declare war on the Mongols, because their recent conquests and foundations are blocking our way to the northern iron.


600: We take Mongol Uruk, held by two musketmen, though we lose an LB (45-3). We capture three workers.

We found Smokey Room to extend our new northern holdings.

We found Norman in a useful spot on a floodplain.


610: We take Mongol Erdenet, garrisoned by two spearmen (47-3). We capture a worker.

Outside cites we slay three Mongol units (50-3).


620: Magnetism is now generally known, and we still have a monopoly on ToG. Only Theodora has money, so ToG to the Byzantines for 2236 gold, 29 gpt, and TM (full value); ToG and WM to Japan for Magnetism and 5 gold (full value); and ToG and 50 gold to China for Economics and Navigation.

We enter the IA and gain Steam Power as our free tech. Unfortunately Theodora gets the same thing, but a scheme involving Hammurabi's free tech may still be possible. We have plenty of coal--though no iron yet, of course.

Incense from Theodora for silks and 270 gold.

It turns out that there are horses in the north of our continent, about ten tiles beyond the iron.

Our GA ends.

We lose an Enk to the attack of a Mongol LB (50-4).


630: We take Mongol Nimrud, held by two spearmen, and capture a worker (52-4).

We shoot down a Mongol LB (53-4).

We found Uptown Babies Don't Cry to consolidate our position in the north.

We found Smile Out of Style to beat the Byzantines to some formerly Babylonian land.

Our first WW hits.


640: We push on towards the iron.


650-660: The Egyptians take Babylonian Karana one turn before we would have. Since this is in the immediate vicinity of the iron, we have to go to war with Cleo; so we declare on her, then make peace with the Mongols, which ends our WW.

We take Egyptian Karana, held by one LB (54-4).


670: We found Iron Shirt, finally claiming iron, though it isn't hooked up yet.

Our WW is back, doubtless Babylonian this time.

Our heroic curragh is sunk by a privateer (54-5).


680: We take the current Bab capital of Zamua, held by three spearmen and an LB. We lose an LB and capture a worker (58-6).

We take Abydos, an Egyptian enclave on our continent held by two spearmen and an LB (61-6). In the process we generate our first GL, Lugalzaggesi, who forms our first army.


690: Our new army smites a barb horseman, and we're eligible for the Heroic Epic and the Military Academy (62-6).

We discover a second supply of horses in the north of our continent.

Two extremely optimistic barb horsemen attack our Crusader army (64-6). :D


700: Our army accounts for another barb (Kassite) horseman (65-6).


710: We move into position to finish off the Babylonians.

We hook up the northern iron and start building rails.

We defeat the attack of another barb horseman (66-6).

We're first to Industrialization.

Urrrp HEROIC EPIC --> factory.


720: We take Bab Hindana, held by two spearmen (68-6).

We make peace again with the Babylonians, gaining the distant city of Mari.

I spot a Bab settler we can't reach this turn, which complicates our plans. We'll have to let the Babs survive a little longer.

We gift Hammurabi into the IA, and the gambit works, in that Medicine is his free tech; but we can't make any deal for it. Why would Hammurabi not trust us? :mischief:

We trample two more Kassite horsemen (70-6).

Four elite victories this turn produced one Great Leader.

We have iron, and horses under our control in the north though not hooked up yet, so we've overcome the special challenges built into this scenario. The rest of the game should be a fairly straightforward process of building factories and rails, getting ToE and Hoover, and overwhelming our rivals. Unless I'm overlooking something, we hold three of only five visible coal sources, so some of our enemies will never have rails.

Right now we're only at war with Egypt, which is mostly a phony war since we've taken all their cities on our continent, and we can end that one whenever we want. It may be some time until our next major war, since this is an obvious time for building our position. But we should fight a small war soon to take Ningpo and Yangchow (both on our continent) from the Chinese, because these towns have horses. And while we're pushing in that direction, we should gain control of the iron near Matsuyama, which may only require us to found a new city. Taking these resources out of play should make things easier for us later.

It's irritating that we can't conclude our war with the Babylonians by eliminating them, because we need to get Medicine from them first, and because they've got a settler near Hindana our slow units (meaning everything except our Crusader army) can't catch. But I've been running down the Babylonian population in the cities we've taken from them, and the flip risk should be negligible.

Laglouts is about to complete our first factory, after which it should skim off a worker (its food box isn't quite full yet, but that's all right) and then begin the palace pre-build for ToE.

We're short of workers for our railing drive, so we need to be alert for opportunities to skim them off towns with full food boxes, which will typically occur when cities complete factories.

Don't overlook our town of Mari, at the western tip of the Byzantine peninsula. If holding it when we eventually go to war with Theodora seems like too much trouble, we can just gift it away.

We have some cats and trebs lined up along our road to the north just to keep the Byzantines from blocking it.

So, will we get the next round played in under five months? The world waits with bated breath....:lol:

The iron road:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/33960/SP4-720AD.JPG

OMG!!! A set being played! :lol:

That was a bit quick! Is it my turn already, or is someone else up now?

I was about to ask what's the roster say... ;)

Where *is* the roster?

Where *is* the roster?
Well, this post could help. ;)
Well, the recent order was:

Northern Pike - played recently
AlanH - played recently
zerksees - just played
ainwood - probably still on the roster - I vote for him as next UP
Karasu - seems to be avoiding commitment, hasn't played a set yet, but still around

others we should probably write off:

TedJackson - MIA a while ago
Space - has other things to do
mad-bax - popped his head round the door and hasn't been seen since

Well, that makes it:

Northern Pike -just played
AlanH - UP
zerksees - on deck
ainwood - somewhere in the neighborhood
everyone else - lost and gone forever

So I'd better play some turns ... sometime. I'll let you all know when I've got it :p

AlanH - UP

... sometime. I'll let you all know when I've got it :p
Now that's more like it :)

Since I am on the roster now I might have to post a "got it" once a month:eek:

If you don't like it well....

I guess I'll have to wait. :lol:

[delurk] Remember the playing rules:
Playing Rules
You have 72 days to post a got it.
And 24 days after that to play.
;)

[delurk] Remember the playing rules:

;)
All I can say is "time is relative":mischief:

I won't be able to play my turns until we get SGOTM 3 under way. I should be clear of that after the weekend, so if anyone is *really* impatient they're welcome to take the next set.

Just posting this ... er ... because ... er ... well you know ... to get this thread listed on some ... er ... important people ... their cp's ...

:D

Sorry, there has been a fair amount of activity in some circles recently, but I fully intend to pick this up ..... um .. well. .... ah ... maybe this weekend :D, avoiding the pre-Christmas rush.

we're picking up speed...
that almost sounds like a commitment to play a set :)

Oh, how I hate that word ... commitment :p

Err ... how does it go again? Ahah! I remember :)

GOT IT!

Now, where were we? What were we trying to do? What do those Crusader-thingies do? How many turns are we playing? So many questions .... :confused:

Thanks for the excellent hand-off write-up, NP. Looks like we're nicely set up. I'll digest all that and then play through to Hoover, maybe. Try to get it to Zerksees as a Christmas pressie.

Try to get it to Zerksees as a Christmas pressie.

So fast! ;)

I'll digest all that and then play through to Hoover, maybe.

Great! Unless I'm not giving sufficient weight to that "maybe"....;)

Great! Unless I'm not giving sufficient weight to that "maybe"....;)

Just wanted to avoid the 'C' word again :p

He did not say which Christmas - though there might be some indication that it is Christmas 2006 - maybe.

My memory is fading - what was the objective of this game anyway? I thought it was supposed to be a mystery. I might actually have to re-read the thread. But I dare not start until it is my turn again lest I forget again.

IIRC it was to beat the finish date of someone who won that GOTM. And to do so in just about that much actual time.

Found this by NP early in the neolithic layers of this thread:

Let's play for the fastest possible victory, Conquest or Domination according to circumstances, and without concern for the Jason score

I guess that's where we're heading.

At one point, we were trying to beat Aeson's date, IIRC.

1762 AD 20K Culture?

Yeah - I think so. Probably not much chance of that now, though.

Yeah! I suspect a different game plan was required from the outset if we wanted 20K.

SirPleb had the fastest, and only, Conquest victory in 790AD, and A'AbarachAmadan had a Domination victory in 870 AD. I don't think we are in any danger of challenging those dates.

Alan, I know this is a shockingly quick bump by the standards of this game ;), but are you any closer to playing than you were on Christmas Eve? If not, we might offer Zerksees the opportunity to play a set, since he's so eager. :lol:

Yeah, I did play a few turns, but then Christmas overtook me. I'll try and post something this weekend and then let Zerksees take it away.

Good to hear. :goodjob:

Weeell! Another 10 days have flown by, but the good news is it's now 980 AD, we have Theory of Evolution, and we are a few turns from Hoover with no competition, of course.

I'd forgotten how hard the MM during this phase is, specially with so few luxuries, but I'm determined to finish up Hoover tonight, and then I'll post my turn log and the save, come hell or high water :) Just ... a ... few ... more ... turns :eek:

...but I'm determined to finish up Hoover tonight, and then I'll post my turn log and the save, come hell or high water
or Valentine's Day or St. Patrick's Day or ....

:D

Oh, Ye of little faith :p

Here's the save (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/25796/Gilgamesh_of_the_Sumerians_1020_AD.SAV) at 1020 AD.

Here's the turn log in all its boring detail:




720 AD - Pre-flight. Can't see much wrong with the set-up. There's no deal available for Medicine. We're running a big deficit, for Electricity in 10 turns, but with some libraries coming in soon it's worth building a beaker-bank.

IBT: Lot's of Byzantine troop moves. Babs sends out a stack of six spears from Adab. Barb horse kills a Chinese longbow who showed his face outside Ningpo.

Nineveh Library->Settler
Laglouts Factory->Palace prebuild
War ina Babylon Library->Worker
Zariqum Library->Worker
Uptown Babies Worker->Worker
Smile Out of Style Worker->Worker

730 AD: There's now a Byz stack of 8 longbows and three med inf under a musket outside Hindala, and a somewhat smaller stack in the mountains outside Zamua. With the road from Iron Shirt to Zamua complete, move five trebs to Zamua from the Iron Shirt garrison for added deterrence. Note that there's a Byz reg rifle popped up in Izibia. I'm a little concerned that our defences are light in Eulbar - one enkidu, with no garrison in neighboring Smokey Room and One Step Forward. Theodora has no coal, and may decide to try to grab it by capturing Eubar.

IBT: Looks as if Theo is at war with Toko. Her longbow attacks a unit in the fog, and an injured Japanese horse appears in the north. I guess that's where all those Byz units are heading. A Mongol longbow has landed near Adab.

740 AD: vet longbow kills redlined barb horse (1-0)
Theo has Medicine. She will buy Industrialization for Medicine + 402gold + 107gpt + WMap. Toko has it as well, but has less cash. China also, but zero cash.
Babs will sell Medicine now for Steam + 331gold.
We no longer need Babs for his Medicine, so we can kill him asap. Maybe wait for the settler to build, then capture Adab, sue for Medicine, then kill his new city.
Egypt has made it to the Industrial era.

IBT: Mongol longbow attacks Adab. More mongol troops land to attack next turn. Babs spears head back towards Adab. I guess they'll be too late.
Nimrud Worker->Worker

Egypt starts Shakespeare's Theatre.

IBT: Theo offers WMap for Industrialization + WMap! No thanks, love.
Our caravel is attacked by a privateer, and sinks it (2-0).
Mongols attack Adab and capture it. Babylonians are dead. That settler must have been killed by someone else.
China settles another city in the north.
Smokey Room riots :(

760 AD: Check deals on Medicine -
Theo will give Med+333+99gpt+WMap for Indust.
Japan will give Med+183+127gpt+WMap, and could give more gpt but won't. So Theo's deal is about 20gpt light vs Japan's market price. I'll sell Indust when the price starts to drop.

IBT: Privateer sinks our Galley (2-1)
Byz troops seem to be heading home.
Babylon Worker->Worker.
Karana Worker->Worker
One Step Forward Library->Worker
Iron Shirt Worker->Worker

770AD: Build Dabrum Handle NE of Hindana->Worker.
Japan's deal for Industrialization has dropped to 112gpt plus the other stuff. Time to sell, I think.
Theo offers Med+460+132gpt+WMap,
or Med+460+165gpt with no map.
I take the deal without the map.
Japan gives WMap+184+92gpt for Industrialization.
I sell maps around to add about 40 gold to our account, leaving the others with no cash.

IBT: Byz troops continue to stream home. Egypt lands an Ancient Cav from a galley near Ashur. We don't have any attackers that can reach him, and Ashur has a single Enk in residence.
Akkad Library->Worker
Eridu Aqueduct->Library
Zamua Worker->Worker
Abydos Enk->Enk
Mongols complete Newton's Uni in Ulaanbaatar, Byz switch wonder builds around.

780 AD: Seems like a good time to make peace with Egypt for 6gpt and 23gold - all she has, plus Lisht - a toehold on the NW island.

IBT:
ZabalamThankYouMa'am Factory->Worker

800 AD: More rails

IBT: China builds New Nanking near iron on west coast
Ninevaeh settler->Worker
War ina Babylon Worker->Worker
Kua Courthouse->Worker
China starts Univ Suffrage

810 AD: Hurry a Library in Ashur (40 gold) and Smokey Room (80 gold)

IBT: Learn Electricity. Start Sci Method.
Ashur Library->Worker
Hindana Worker->Library to snag the horses.
Akkad Worker->Worker
Mari Enkidu->Harbour
Kua Worker->Factory
Der Library->Worker
Smokey Room Library->Worker

820 AD: As Nationalism is at large, decide to get a couple of embassies to see who is allied with who?
Byzantine Embassy (50 gold). Only just building a Temple! Pop 10, sliders 2.8.1. 11 spt. Iron + salt + 5 lux hooked up. No market, no Factory.
Theo has no MPPs, has ROP with everyone but us.
Chinese Embassy (90 gold). Building Library. 12 spt. Has Barracks + Unuversity, so presumably lost Library - destroyed by bombardment or sold off to pay debts? Sliders 6.4.0. horses and iron and 3 lux hooked up. Forgot to take screenie :(. I think 5 pikes and 1 rifle in residence.
Has ROP with all except us, no MPP.
Decide to go to war with China and take over the nothern horses, try to remove them from our continent.
First some trades. Buy Theo's map for map + 10 gold. Sell map to Cleo for map + 3 gold. Sell map to Japan for map + 1 gold. Sell map to China for 3 gold + map.
Declare war on China. Move longbow stack towards Ningpo. Build China Crisis between New Nanking and Nangpo.

Sliders set to 0.7.3. Sci Method in 7 turns. 73 gpt.

IBT: Chinese Rider approaches Lisht on the northern island. It's undefended.
We lose incense. Whoops! Were we trading for it with China? Cycle cities to avoid riots.
Ellipo completes Aqueduct->Worker
Super Factory->LB
Bad Bad Bad Factory->Courthouse
Zariqum Worker->Worker
Uptown Babies Worker->Worker
Smile out of Style Worker->Worker

830 AD: Give Lisht to Mongols to avoid WW from capture.
Attack Ningpo:
Vet LB dies vs. Elite Spear (4/5). Takes a LB hit (2-2)
Vet LB dies vs. 4/5 spear (3/5) (2-3)
Vet LB kills 3/3 spear (1/4) (3-3)
Elite LB kills 3/5 spear (3/5) no leader. (4-3)
Elite LB kills 3/3 LB (5-3), captures Nangpo. Pop 2, 1 resister, 1 scientist. Start worker.
Hurry library in Hindana (156 gold)
Checked the 800 AD save. We weren't trading with China. Don't know what caused us to lose incense. We were getting it from Theo, but now she has none available. Also, everyone's now furious with us - they don't like us picking on China, apparently.

IBT: Urrrp Factory->LB
Nineveh Worker->Worker
Pollution strikes twice
Sardine Factory->LB
Hindana Library->Worker
Ningpo out of resistance.

840 AD: Rush a worker out of Ningpo.
Checked New Shanghai with our army. There's a horse on top, so not much opposition there.

IBT: War ina Babylon Worker->Worker
Babylon's Block Factory->Court
Nimrud Worker->Worker

850 AD: Peddle teh map around for a few shekels.
Move LBs towards New Sanghai
Ningpo starved before it produced its worker, so change to a Library.

IBT: Lose a galley to a privateer (5-4)
Urrrp LB->Cannon
Super LB->Cannon
Marad Factory->Cannon
Akshak Factory->University
Norman Library->Harbour

860 AD: Firt Crusade (Army) kills 3/3 horse, 11/13 (6-4) and captures New Shanghai. Pop 2, one resistor, one scientist. Start worker.
Rush Library in Abydos (128 gold)

IBT: Mongos want to renew peace treaty. Damn. I could have renegotiated for some cash, I guess. Oh well. OK, he gets 20 turns for free.
Chinese ships appearing..
Nineveh Worker->Worker
Ellipi Worker->Worker
Akkad Worker->Worker
Eulbar Settler->Library
Bad Bad Bad gets pollution, and riots
Der Worker->Worker
Sardine LB->University
Abydos Library->Worker
One Step Forward Worker->Worker
Iron Shirt Worker->Worker
Resistance in New Shanghai ends
Dabrum Handle Worker->Worker
Kyoto completes Universal Suffrage. So we have a pre-build to deal with
Nanking grows to Pop 2 so we can take it without auto-razing.

870 AD: I see a rifle on top in xxxx - the northernmost Chinese town. Decide to upgrade the trebs, so start a barracks in Ningpo.
Move a LB stack towards Nanking.
Zabalam has 152 shields towards US. We can have a Bank or a Coal Plant without wasting shields (only some overflow), so I decide on a Bank.

IBT: Rider appears out of New Canton and kills our lurking Explorer.
Cannons built in Urrrp, Super->Cannon. Bank in Zabalam->Galleon - I guess we'll need some transport at some point.
Zamua Worker->Worker

880 AD: Hook up horses at Hindana. Change some unit builds to Cavalry.
Attack Nanking:
4/4 LB dies vs 3/3 spear->3/4 (6-5)
4/4 LB kills 3/4 spear and captures Nanking with 1 scientist. Starts Library.
Hurry Ningpo Barracks for 108 gold.

IBT: Regular Chinese Rider kills vet LB->2/3 (6-6)
We learn Scientific Method. Switch Laglouts to ToE (12 turns)
Babylon Settler->Barracks
Ashur Worker->Worker
A Kish Factory->cavalry
War ina Babylon Worker->Worker
Bad Bad Bad Court->Cavalry
Ningpo Barracks->Library

890 AD: LB kills Chinese Rider flawlessly (7-6)
Settler from Babylon builds Summertime Soon. Starts barracks
China will talk now, will pay for peace.
Sliders at 0.7.3 and research Corporation flat out in 7 turns. ToE moved to Eech and tuned to complete in 8 turns.
So we can switch to Atomic Theory just before we complete ToE. Laglouts on Palace prebuild for Hoover, currently at 25spt. We need to rail and mine some tiles.

IBT: China and Egypt sign a Trade Embargo against us.
More Chinese shipping sighted.
Urrrp Cavalry->Cavalry
Nineveh Worker->Worker
Marad Cavalry->Cavalry
Babylon's Block Courthouse->Cavalry
Kissurathing Factory-Cavalry

900 AD: There are two Chinese Galleons next to Mari, but they haven't dropped troops there. Others are heading south in the East. Probably going for our capital via some undefended cities on the south coast. No problem, we are building Cavalry now, and we have rails.
Byzantines and China now have Corporation. Theo would trade for Electricity. Our research time is down to 4 turns.

IBT: Chinese bombard east coast town.
Akkad Worker->Worker
Sippar Court->Barracks
Der Worker->Worker

910 AD: Work on Laglouts to improve spt.
Move troops towards New Canton

IBT: Chana bombs Zariqum again. Scores a hit, but no damage found.
Urrrp, Super, Zabalam Cavalry->Cavalry
Nineveh, Ellipi, Smokey Room, China Crisis Worker->Worker
Eridu Library->Harbour
AKshak University->Cavalry
Matsuyama expands to take in the iron.

920 AD: Hurry Libraries in New Nanking (144 gold), Ningpo (148 gold), New Shanghai (136 gold)

IBT: Bad Bad Bad Cavalry->Cavalry
Zariqum, Uptown Babies, Smile Out Of Style Worker->Worker
Ningpo, New Shanghai, New Nanking Library->Worker

930 AD: More rails.

IBT: Urrrp, A Kish Cavalry->Cavalry
Nineveh, Ashur, War ina Babylon, Hindana Worker->Worker
Sardine University->Barracks

940 AD: Battle for New Canton:
4/4 LB dies vs. 3/3 Rifle -> 2/3 (7-7)
4/4 LB kills 2/3 rifle (8-7) and captures New Canton with 1 resister. Starts Library.
Adjust slider 3.4.3 for Corporation next turn.
Rush Library in Zamua (136 gold)

IBT: Corporation finished. Select Atomic Theory.
Ellipi, Akkad, Nimrud Worker->Worker
Super, Marad, Babylon's Block, Kissurathing Cavalry->Cavalry
Kuara, Zamua Library->Worker

950 AD: Build Kish and Tell in norhtern territory start Library
Turn off research for the next two turns until ToE Comes in

IBT: China lands a party of 2 pikes and an archer near Akkad
Urrrp, Zabalam Cavalry->Cavalry
Nineveh, Der Worker->Worker

Attack invading Chinese force:
4/4 cavalry dies vs 4/4 pike -> 2/5 (8-8)
Use the trebs to redline the pikes. Then 3 cavalry kill the pikes and archer (11-8)

IBT: A more serious Chinese invasion - 2 riders, one horse and an MI.
Bad Bad Bad cavalry->Cavalry
In Your Face Court->Worker
ToE completed in Eech - We learn Atomic Theory and Electronics. Start Replaceable Parts
Eech starts Cavalry
Akshak Cavalry->Cavalry
Sippar, Sardine Barracks->Cavalry
Abydos, One Step Forward, Iron Shirt, Dabrum Handle Worker->Worker

970 AD: Bombard invasion force. All red lined. Use four cavalry to kill them - only one HP lost. (15-8)
Build Umma in North. Start Worker
Our economy is going to pieces. Try slider at 1.5.4, we are losing 274gpt for Rep Parts in 11 turns.
At 1.5.3, we are losing 229gpt, so stick with that for now. Theo will buy Sci Method for Refining + 42 + 38gpt. OK
China offers 17gpt + map for peace. OK
Next resource challenge - we have no oil. There's some in Japanese territory on our continent, so our cavalry are going that-a-way next. Some workers head north to build the supply routes.
Byzantines have oil in south, near Varna. Only one supply to pillage when the time comes.

IBT: A Chinese Galleon is sunk by a privateer.
Urrrp Cavalry->Cavalry
Nineveh, Ellipi, War ina Babylon Worker->Worker

980 AD: Disband a lot of Enkidus to reduce unit cost problems. Use them to reduce and optimise three cavalry production times. We now lose 148 gpt. We still seem to need 11 turns for Rep Parts :confused:

IBT: Cleo renegotiates peace. OK.
Cavalry and Workers complete. I propose to disband equivalent numbers of Longbows and Enkidu as we produce new Cavalry.

990 AD - 1010 AD: Recycle more units.

1010 AD: Theo has researched Ironclads

IBT: Cavalry and Workers ... And Hoover Dam

We are at peace with all currently, with peace treaties with Mongols (4 turns), China (16 turns) and Egypt (15) --- if they mean anything. We also have a gpt deal with Theo for 15 turns. We could maybe get Nationalism in a tech trade if we want it, and some extra gpt. I avoided gpt deals with Japan as we are likely to want to kick him off our continent soon - even more so now that we've discovered he's looking after our oil.

We are considered weak vs. Theo and Mongols, and average vs. the others, probably because there are a lot of rifles out there. With our new Hoover production capacity, plus Rep Parts to double our worker rate shortly, we should be in good shape in a few more turns.

I guess we now need to take out the local Japanese cities, and then start on Theo. I've build some roads to their borders, and we have 35 Cavalry and counting. We also have a sizeable number of trebs that can be upgraded to artillery when Rep Parts comes in for use in minimising Cavalry losses.

Once we have taken over our continent, we cn build an invasion fleet and go after the other main landmass to get Domination/Conquest, or we can focus on research and a spaceship.

Great stuff :goodjob:, particularly given that you must be busy with SGOTM12.

So, Zerksees, can we expect your round in May or so? ;)

The save looks good, but a few suggestions anyway :D:

We should build the Military Academy in Urrrp now. One army every six turns will be immensely helpful.

Although stock exchanges aren't normally much good, we're running a high enough cash rate that it'll be worth building at least five in high-commerce cities--and then Wall Street, of course.

We should switch some corrupt towns from worker builds to settlers. We'll need a stockpile of settlers for the Byzantine war, whereas once we discover RP we'll be in the rare position of almost having too many workers (presently 86 costing us 172 gpt [!]).

Yes, we are at a significant shift in direction now.

Good point about Mil. Academy. I keep forgetting the insane value of armies in C3C.

I figured that, as the rails are nearly complete, we could start to join back some workers to top up the < pop 12 cities, and to convert to settlers where appropriate. We shall also need some workers to support the Byzantine war, as Theo has no coal, so hasn't built any rails yet. But we have over 30 slaves, costing nothing.

I thought if I replied yesterday I might appear too eager to move this along. I just signed up for SGOTM12 so I will finish before that starts on Feb 9, 2007. Brace yourself. :lol: Today I have to re-read this thread again to firuge out what we are trying to do.

Whatever could I do with an army or 10 :mischief:

I think the goal is to get to domination or conquest ASAP, unless I hear otherwise.

pre-flight:

We are trying to research techs and are very lacking in the gpt department. We are short on lux, there are currently no extras in the world market, and 30% luxtax is going to cost a lot of coin, not to mention if war weariness kicks in. gpt seems even more important in this game due to lack of lux. Take several steps to address:

1) MM cities changing taxmen to scientists, repl parts due in 7 also improve from -80 gpt to -74

2) Change some city builds:
Urrp, Super, Zabalam, Eech changed to stock exchannges, all will complete in 5 turns or less. Seems we only have 4 banks so there will be a slight delay in Wall St. build.
Laglots, Bad bad bad, Akish, Babylon Block, Kisurrathing, Marad changed to bank
Sardine changed to marketplace!

3) Initiate some trades:
Bought nationalism from someone? trading a tech. Debated about this, but want to be able to draft if needed.
China buys scientific method paying espionage and 40 gpt
Byzantines buy atomic theory for 125 gold and 297 gpt! (we still have 15 turns on 138 gpr payment from them as it is)
Egypt buys industrialization paying 27 gpt, 7 gpt and wm
China buys atomic theory for 54 gpt and communism

4) Crank up the science to 60%, we will have repl parts in 5. I want my artillery and infantry.

We are now at 1708 gold and +189 gpt

Military:
I like the counts on offense (cavs and longbows) and bombardment, but our defense is practically non-existent. I think we'll need at least some defense against the Byzantine.
Upgrade 31 trebs to cannon for 930 gold, and one enkidu to rfileman for 210 gold. Ouch methinks the rest of the enkidus will get disbanded. Switch a few builds to rifleman.
Found a sleeping worker in the treb stack and put him to work.
Found two elite longbows. Hmmm. Japan has weak units in the open on our landmass. They have no gpt to offer us for techs. Declare war on Japan. I am going to milke every last unit they have on elite promotions or leader attempts
Take a peek at Matsuyama with a cav - pikeman in there. Attack him and the city falls. I raze it gaining a slave worker [1-0]
Our elite longbows attack fortified horseman and longbow. Both win losing 2hp each but no leaders. [3-0]
Also grabbed another enemy worker.
Japans oil now in neutral (about to become our) territory

Happiness:
I think with the general shortage of lux that we need some temples and/or cathedrals in core cities, and markets and possibly temples in outlying cities.

I also wonder if we should not go to communism, as you will have military police and less corruption in the outlying cities.

I held up on this since I want input from you guys.

IBT
Byz and Japan sign trade embargo. Scary :rolleyes:
Zariqum: worker -> settler
Akshak: cav -> rifle
Ninpgo: worker -> worker
Uptown... : worker -> rifle
New Nanking: worker -> rifle
China Crisis: lib -> rifle
Japan has a horseman who attacks our longbow at New Canton. Horseman retreats.

I know I signed us up for 20 turns of peace with Byz. Even if we choose not to honor that, in the meantime she will pay us a lot of gold we can use to upgrade our cannons to arty before we DOW (or she DOW us :mischief:)

Turn 1: 1030 AD
Lots of workers. Keep them busy.
Repl parts due in 4. :drool:
Think I need to block our territory to keep Byz from reinforcing their northwestern holdings.
Block the injured horse from returning to Japans city.

IBT
New Shanghai: worker -> settler

Turn 2: 1040 AD
Repl parts in 3. Still at 60% sci. Can't switch any scientists to taxmen or the turns to complete goes up.
Attack the horse with 4/5 elite lb. He wins but no leader. [4-0]
Set up the blockade. It runs from SW to NE through Uptown and Nimrud. Just needed 3 units to complete the blockade.
Rush a settler for 92 gold

IBT
Japan and Mongols embargo against us. Tokugawa is going to have to do better if he wants me to notice.
Urrp: stock exch -> military academy
Bad Bad Bad: bank -> stock exch
In Your Face: worker -> rifle
Nimrud: worker -> rifle
One Step Fwd: settler -> market

1050 AD
Repl parts in 2
More to come.

How many turns should I play - 10, 20, more? I only played this game once in 2006 and this might be my only chance in 2007.

I am getting the cannons in place and the longbows to try for a leader against the last Japan city on our landmass. Once they are gone I will see if Japan wants peace.