The Elitist Hegemony:--A worker theft challenge

Variant Rules:
No building workers.

You are encouraged to poach lesser (other) civilizations' workers, directly, by capturing settlers, or by taking large cities.

Optional:
No switching to emancipation until Capital has reached 1/3 its population in 'we demand emancipation' unhappiness.

You do not give into to demands for tribute or change of religion. Feel free to tell other Civs to 'shove it'.

Map script:
Archipelago, Small size, low seas, Standard # of Random Civs (4 or 5 rivals), Prince difficulty

Roster:
Liq
Silver
Veoviolin
james, of team rocket
Zeviz
drasca
Liq

Update with blatant copy and paste from Liq's roster update.

Good luck. I see two ways of poaching workers - grab them while they are working on their city borders, or stealing settler pairs.

I expect my head to be taken for taking a RB slot number, but Sirian and Sullla will have to catch me first... and get past the other players I reinforce.


First things first. We're spain. We get free mysticism, free fishing, and a fantastic UU. Double speed granaries encourage whips, while double speed temples encourage large cities. These are usually mutually exclusive paths, but we have options to go both ways. Once we're done whipping, we can let those high food cities grow into high production / high commerce cities via our temples. This is also an archipelago map. Sea power dictates victory. Scout the map for circumnavigation asap.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v241/DrascaGW/RB%20SG/Sgstart.jpg

Here is our start. It is fairly good because we have extra resources and coastal access from the get-go. By looking at fog edge, confirmed by presence of fresh water, we have a lake nearby. That's a very good thing (tm) for Spain, as we have the option to go for hydra power. Dye resource enhanced grassland gives one commerce.

I settled immedately, and started working the dye commerce enhanced grassland and begun work on a workboat. I kid not when I say sea power dominates, and I prioritize sea exploration, as our current island is likely going to be all too small soon. When the cultural border expanded, the freshwater lake becomes worked.

Standard Hydra research start. Meditation-->Poly. Pitstop to sailing however. Since we don't have workers for a while, we'll need all the extra resources we can get, and galleys plus ocean trading is extremely useful on this water map. Ocean trading will spread our religions, albeit slowly until we have a holy shrine.

Liq, Zev, be ready to make a grab a great prophet point wonder, either stonehenge or oracle. We'll want to spawn a GP to holy shrine our chosen state religion, so it spreads to other lands. If we do get the oracle, don't delay it waiting for a better tech, just grab whatever you feel is best. I think Iron working would be the most likely choice at that point.

Not much happens for a while until... I see Tokugawa warrior coming from the eastern jungle. We're not alone. Then, two cross the lands, and retreat back east. That means this is a small island, and Tok is extremely nearby.

You know what that means, warriors after the workboat explorer. Barracks might've been an option if we were aggressive with double speed barracks, or more room to build, but we need a minimum of 3 warriors immediately, since I spent some time building a workboat explorer.

One warrior to the east, up Japanese borders and fortifies. He stays there. The rest go exploring our island and looking for sea resources. Workboat heads west, nothing of value for many turns.

Micromanaged Madrid for high commerce. Eventually got sailing and headed back towards Organized religion. Grabbed all three religions via commerce focus.

Far far far to the west is Elizabeth of England. She's financial, and likely needs to be conquered before she's too much trouble. She's somewhat near to stone too. That stone is not extremely close to Lizzy, but it is landbound to her, and likely out of our reasonable reach. Keep this competition in mind when building stone wonders.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v241/DrascaGW/RB%20SG/Workertheft.jpg

This is the first major decision point, at 2600 BC. I could either risk declaring war and trying to grab the worker next turn, or wait for another possibly non existent opportunity. Given this is Tokugawa, he's likely armed to the teeth even at this point, and that hill is within possible reach of one of Toku's military. That's too risky. To do worker theft like this, you need to be next to their worker at their cultural borders. I sometimes take risks like this, but this was too much, too early.

1 workboat, 3 warriors total on my side, one warrior on the way from our Madrid, other comes back from exploration to garrison Madrid to make up for the warrior coming to us. I decide to wait while reinforcements come.

Tokugawa makes a mistake. He made a settler to expand with, and escorts it with two warriors, with combat I, ignoring our fortified warrior in the jungle. It doesn't matter where he expands, it is close to us and we cannot take it with our pitiful force of 3 warriors total. However...

Eventually, that worker decides to put a mine next to us. It is almost 2000 BC, and I've taken almost 40 turns, probably more than I should, but for this variant, the right type of theft is important. Guess what happened.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v241/DrascaGW/RB%20SG/Currentsituation.jpg

Fortune favors the bold! Our unfortified warrior (other still fortified) manages to take the worker, and even survives an attack from Tokugawa's archer! I did not expect that. I thought he was a goner, sacrificed so we may gain the vital worker. He's a tough one. I decide not to move him on 2000 BC yet.

Liq, you have a pivotal decision to make. To pillage and raid, or not. This is a unique opportunity to cripple Tokugawa, but you do not have long to make it. You may either take the gamble I propose, or take the safe route and bring the wounded warrior back to escort the prized worker home.

The AI is almost guaranteed not to abandon the city of its last defender. He will likely have another unit soon, but you have enough time to pillage the mine, or the farm, or possibly both. If you are particularly daring, you could pillage it all, but I recommend prioritizing the farm.

The current research path is heading towards archery. I've delayed it long enough with religion intensive and exploration intensive action. We need archers against Toku. If we're particularly unlucky, Tokugawa will have bronze or iron. Save game next reply.

This is the save. Bah! I thought I didn't move that warrior. There's still time to go pillaging, but not much. With those mines and farm, Tokugawa will be able to have a second archer up soon, faster yet if it is a warrior. Pay close attention to where that warriorx2-settler pair goes. If it settles where it is, you'll need to escort the worker, if it settles farther out, pillage option is very likely.

Update: Liq, Zev, take 10 turns each. We're on a 10 turn rotation now, because every turn matters at this point.

1. Drasca (Played)
2. Liq (UP)
3. Zev (On deck)
4. S.ilver
5. ndthsmdy

Is that mine on flat land? If it is, Tokugava has Bronze working and has copper connected. This also means that our warriors are useless, so we might as well get some use out of them by pillaging everything they can reach.

With this military-heavy strategy I would have prioritized military techs over religions, but at least we are on our way to archers.

lurker comment-

no building of workers?

:shakehead:

good luck.

whatever you can get from the japanese is just gift wrapped; if you don't destroy them right now, they will soon have enough infrastructure to maul you, and if you do destroy them, you'll have no more workers to steal from them. if you let them sit and build units as slowly as you, you're never getting any workers.

and as for getting any workers from other civs later: good luck surviving.

i just don't know how you can possibly pull this off. at any rate, it will make for some interesting lurking.

To be a member of the RBCiv community (for purposes of captaining an RB SG), you must have participated in at least one of our events: SGs or tournament play. How much participation you should do before leading your own games under our banner, we leave to your discretion. Please choose wisely.

Who is this newbie guy Drasca and why does he think he's a member of the RB community? :shakehead





:joke:

Good luck, guys!

If you still have slots, I'd love to join in on this apparent head smashing quest (war already in the first turnset?).

EDIT: Oh, and that's not copper, it's IRON. You may want to pillage that... like immediately. Otherwise major problems will arise. Toku doesn't appear to have any iron units yet anyways. Depending on how many turns it took Toku to get Ironworking... you may want to risk the pillage.

I'm guessing it's gems. Too early for Iron Working.

I'll join, if you'll have me. Awesome variant.

If it was iron, you wouldn't be able to see the resource because you don't have Iron Working researched. Those are gems.

Archipalego is a tough map for this variant but good luck anyways. :p

Who is this ... guy

Yeah, who is he, and how dare he! I mean, being on the original RBMoo SG on the CFC boards doesn't count. He even likes to make fun of sullla and sirian, and Cthulu-plush doll griselda. Plus, he must be unwisely crazy for suggesting we go without workers! The real question is, is that the right kind of crazy, or the wrong. Thanks gris.

i just don't know how you can possibly pull this off

You don't have to. Sit back, and watch the magic happen.

I'd love to join

Sure thing. I'll add you to the roster. You're quite observant that it is gems too.

With this military-heavy strategy I would have prioritized military techs over religions

That's my first thought as well. However, there's only two real military techs until you build a settler on top of a resource, and it has to be a coastal city with sailing enabled to trade it around. Archers are your only early options, but they're no better than warriors when it comes to worker-theft, and also more shield intensive than warriors. I almost lost a warrior, but 15 production is very worth having worker.

Don't forget to consider the power of the hydra. With it, we may spy upon other civs and call upon religious diplomacy to our aid. Rival civs are also denied founding Holy cities, and thus almost automatically becomnig our enemies... for a while anyways. If we can establish a firm religious presence before then, we'll own this game.

I considered doing noble difficulty for this game. Monarch is out of the question. However, we do have advantages, and I intend to press them. We'll sail, we'll explore, we'll use holy shrines for cash, we'll switch civics and religions like crack-monkeys. Isabella is one of the few who can take advantage of that, and I intend to encourage it and use it. Conquistadors are also an excellent UU that's just good all-around.

Tokugawa looks nasty, but he's caught in a bind right now. His military is split and exhausted. If you can keep a warrior within pillage distance, he'll not likely be able to fight back. This is a flaw in the AI, and not the gameplay itself, and given how difficult this game is... I'll take it. AI flaws are what make humans superior. Besides that, we still have several other civs to worry about. This one flaw won't win this game for us.

I'll join, if you'll have me. Awesome variant.
Sure thing. You'll be our fifth. Be sure to listen in on the strat discussion for every turn set. There is no guarantee for victory, but if we coordinate our efforts every turn set, I'll be very happy.

Ah, so it were gems. That's a huge relief. I thought the game was over when I saw that mine on flat ground.

I tried same map settings and variant rules at home last night and it went pretty well. Maybe it's because I got a very lucky start (3 seafood resources and several forests around capital). What I did in that game was getting sailing, then beelining for iron working while using a galley to explore, then settling on top of iron and using a pair of swordsmen to steal my first worker together with a city. Then I proceeded to almost wipe out the Japanese, because they were still defending with archers. I am currently racing to Liberalism, but I overexpanded, so upkeep is killing me. (Should probably whip courthouses everywhere.) This strategy (minus the overexpantion bit) might also work in this game, if we want to go in the aggressive direction. Or was your plan something completely different?

PS Now that we have a worker I guess we should research a couple worker techs before going on to IW.

I'm glad your Iron gamble worked out for you! If this were a land map, I'd bee line towards a metal tech too, but this is sea, and sea requires a lot of sailing and religious theft is usually comparatively stronger. Both IW and Settlers take a lot of turns to take advantage of, and with very little in the way of production improvements... That can get painful

The key techs right now are archery, priesthood, mining, BW and IW. We can do without the rest of the worker techs right now, as we have very little to actually improve. If we want the Oracle, we'd better grab it AFTER we have military. We can defend our city with little more than warriors for now with the cultural bonus, but we'll need to make active raids on Toku. We also need mining after archery, as we have gems of our own to take advantage of. The rest of them are of questionable value, as I expect tokugawa to start raiding our area soon. Luckily for us, if we have nothing for him to pillage, he'll just be wasting his time.

While there, please use work our city manually, as the city governer is not suited well for our task right now.

Also important is getting another workboat up and exploring east. I'd like to see what's behind Tokugawa and make sure he cannot take advantage of it.

Yes another post.

A lot will depend on the next 20 turns. Pillaging, blockading, military, research, workboat exploration. Every turn will be utterly crucial! I will be happy if we survive a full 5 rounds, because I intentionally chose very difficult variant and possibly :smoke: tech path.

If not, we'll return on another map for revenge!

hehe liq was distracted! got it will post turn in a bit gonna study this thread first.

got it.

Cheers!
-Liq

ok well have sevlo pedia and blue marble and not letting me load from the anti cheat toggle... let me uninstall blue marble first..

ok that's not it... lets see lol...

cleared out the sevlo and still nothing.

ok not sure what's going on, will uninstall/install a new version of civ. be a bit. sometimes the patcher is slow.

what exatcly is geeking the save game protection? anyone know? *waiting on patch*


hehe ok gtg want my salmon color ui back!

Cheers!
-Liq

Non-NTFS filesystems on the disk where Civ 4 is installed. If it's on a FAT partition the anti-cheat measure is broken. It'll be fixed next patch. In the meantime, best bet is either another install on an NTFS partition if you've got one, or restarting the game without that option checked I'm afraid.

preturn
Ah the hydra... sweet. I agree completely that enough time was stalled on archery so that will be my path.

Keeping Decrepit Darius Drake (warrior) fortified where he is, serves as an anchor for our Cabin Boy (worker) should those warriors double back

ok I see the our raider Black Beard (warrior) has a promotion to help him heal,I'll nab that by choosing combat 1. go from .3 hp to 1.2

I favor pillage and plan on getting an archer for defense posthaste. IMO kick toku if he's dumb enough to spend all this time on a settler. Goal is to kill off that mine and corn. No excuses matey!

9 turns on archery 10 on barracks... good deal.. I'll keep work on the forest for faster growth in 5 so barracks and archery will fall same turn.

lets see where that settler goes..

[1]2000 BC

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/liquidated/rb10_osaka.jpg
Toku plops osaka down north of Port Madrid means it's safe to sneak back Cabin Boy un escorted as I'll have fair warning if a warrior comes after me.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/liquidated/rb10_Kyoto_Pillage_1.jpg
farm is target.

Cabin Boy, the worker makes a sneak. Decrepit Darius Drake stays fortified.

[2]1920 BC
Hunting comes in archery auto follows in 6.

osaka's warriors stay put so gtg on worker back home.

Kyoto still has only one archer.

destroy the mine on a gamble.

[3]1880 BC
Culture hits level 3 and we are squeezing osaka, taking away his valuable jungle hills =p
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/liquidated/rb10_Cabinboy_flee.jpg
Cabin Boy is safe!

kyoto still only has one archer.

[4]1840 BC
Corn is pillaged! STILL only one archer in kyoto

Cabin Boy has nothing to do! so he polishing Drownin' Norm Dawkins' boots over at port madrid.

[5]1800 BC
Still only one archer in kyoto so go for another mine.
Madrid pops to size 6 and is at happy limit... work the 3 hammer hill to speed up the barracks.
3 turns on archery and barracks now. good good.

[6]1760 BC
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/liquidated/rb10_Blackbeards_final_days.jpg
pillage the 2nd mine, when is another archer going to pop in kyoto...

[7]1720 BC
Kyoto pops an archer and keel hauls Black Beard. Black Beard dies after beating up the archer well enough... He pillaged 2 mines and the corn so not bad at all, that will delay the scurvey dog as he'll not dare get a worker on it in a long time. Well if he does, all the better! Har har Har!

barracks in one turn.

[8]1680 BC
Archery comes in go for mining in 5... we do not need food any time soon unless we whip... need BW for that, which needs mining!

I slow growth down by working the coast for the 2 commerce instead of the corn.

go for an archer as we need the defense. 4 turns on that...

btw we are up to 83 gold in the coffers.

move cabin boy to the gems in anticipation.

[9]1640 BC
zzz

[10]1600 BC
nada

turn recap
Barracks DONE
Archer in 2
6/6 happy and growth in...24, gems will be worth mining soon so no danger of getting an unhappy.
6/6 on health too, those 4 forests we have are giving us 2 red crosses so don;t make them walk the plank quite yet.

Archery done , mining in 2, BW is queued next

Liq gambled and imo won.
pillaged the 2 mines and corn while keeping the other warrior in his area to prevent a worker. Imo that's a good thing, well worth sacrificing BlackBeard as those pillages cannot be repaired soon.

Not only was the damage black beard caused major, we still Got cabin Boy, our worker, to Port Madrid. Cabin Boy is 100% safe and ready to mine them thar shiney rocks out back.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/liquidated/rb10_1600bc.jpg
Osaka settled to the north and promptly had 2 of it's jungles cut off due to culture. The two deck swabbers (warriors) there could have caused us problems but were pinned by toku's indecision.

4 exp archer due in 2 turns...

Good to see ya again ndy! got the pc working ok?


ok some thoughts now that I got the save out.

Toku is screwed lol. his worker was stolen (sweet grab dra) and 3/4th of his improvements are gone. well I'd have loved to take the roads too but there was more important things!

Toku is in a bad situation, osaka is more boat anchor than asset to him as it's dragging his economy down.

imo start on the explorer workboat I so greviously delayed and send it east for the early circum.


If you have issues loading the save, take all the folders from mygames/civ4 and either delete them or just stash them out of harms way. civ regenerates the file structure inside the main civ4 document folder.


Cheers!
-Liq

Excellent round Liq the Pirate captian. Yar! I see you moved the workboat back southeast. Maybe Zeviz can use it to explore Northeast of Tokugawa's territory, then further east for circumnavigation, or mayhap he'll build his own, or blaze trails for another bloody path!

Hail Liq, and I call forth Zeviz from the dark to pursue this next round of fury. Go forth Zeviz, map our sails towards conquest! Victory or Death lay beyond that next turn screen!

1. Liq (Just played)
2. Zeviz (UP)
3. S.ilver (ON DECK)
4. ndthsmdy (Yarrrr, ye scurvy dog)
5. Drasca (Watching with glee)

Was trying to head south on the workboat to spot another path to the west. as I was getting blocked.

Kinda was distracted by all that pillaging/ cabin boy fun as well so was a :smoke: perhaps on my part as I didn;t look to the north. It's lack of a name makes that obvious.

Glad cabin boy was able to sneak back on his own. a single warrior guard wouldn't have done us much good if toku wanted blood and darious is too useful where he is.

Feel free to berate me when needed though! I'm a student of civ.



Black Beard really earned his peg leg there, we got like 35 gold from that pillaging alone hahaha. No point wimping out with him after that miraculous win you pulled off.

would have gone for the gems if I could have lol. drat!

Btw let me explicitly say it, fantastic start. That timing on the cabin boy was a solid gamble and, as is said in RB circles, Fourtune favors the bold! on the counterattacking archer.

Sometimes it's better to be good than lucky
Sometimes it's better to be lucky than good

As for that no cheat toggle... I'm not so hot on it. I really rely on sevlopedia as the default civlopedia is just the worst thing ever. I cringed going back to it.

Not sure what all the no cheat toggle was geeking on, that or blue marble but blue marble is really easy to uninstall / reinstall.

I support the no cheat toggle's concept 100%, just not so happy with its implimentaion so far.

Anyway, we got a solid crew going here, this is gonna be a fun SG.:goodjob:

When are the moo SG's starting up, zed is soooo slacking:lol:

Cheers!
-Liq

I actually didn't turn on the no cheat toggle at first. I naively set an admin password under "Game details", wanting to know what that did, and that had the unintended effect of 'no cheating' and all that entails. I honestly didn't know at the time there was anything different. I can take it off for your next round if you'd like, or take it off completely. This round, I didn't have time to, because well. You played with black beard and cabin boy so fast, I wasn't able to come back with a changed before you would play! I am glad you managed to find a way around this difficulty.
:smoke: perhaps on my part as I didn;t look to the north

This can be forgiven. I too am at fault, busy watching for men to capture, instead of noting alternate paths west beyond lizzy's continent. Looting takes all your concentration! Doubly so when death comes at any moment. However, the next player needs to be a more careful about workboat scouting. I am not yet worried we'll lose it to someone else, but we must be quick about it. No slacking off!

Hehe. I honestly expected that warrior (Black beard) to die. We got lucky, and it paid off in spades when you took advantage of it. You aptly saw the one tile jungle blockade, and was smartly wary of an archer retaliation. It is possible to pillage everything, but you'd likely lose both warriors in the process. That blockade is too valuable.

When you're lucky and skilled, sieze the advantage! When you're skilled and prepared for the unlucky, take heart in the fact you've prepared all that you can, and we can understand acknowledge sometimes the gamble does not pay off, if you care to explain why! What booty do you seek to bring? What lands do you conquer? What natives will you bloody your swords on? I lost my men, but look at the treasure I've brought back! Zounds, it is worth trying! Mathmeticians and Astronomers knew how large the world was at the time of Colombus and Magellan, and figured it was round long since. The distance was too great to sail to Asia heading west. There was no knowledge of the americas, but that insane man proposed to Spain, an emerging world power and rival to Britain at the time, and she had little to lose sending 3 ships with Columbus, and all to gain. That she did after wishing Columbus to his likely doom

The AI only counter-attacks from its city garrison if it thinks it has overwhelming forces, and this scale is usually set too high for a bold player's taste. What you or I think can retaliate and go back, the computer is too much of a wimp to take. You may get your hand bitten inside that crocodile's mouth, but you can easily punch in the nose, and beat its brains to a bloody pulp before it decides to bite back. In short, the AI is chicken. Have your way with it, whether fried, baked, or grilled.

In my experience, Tokugawa would never unguard Osaka to make an attack towards you. He can't think that. He cannot sense or understand there will be no sneak attacks, that his city will not be in danger if he leaves it unguarded. Civ AI's are simply unable to sense or reason, but are set at certain (fairly hard) thresholds for generic defense against all possible dangers--rather than our ability to look at the map, determine what dangers lay out there, and dynamically prepare defense when we need it rather than "I need this much xxx at all times." The only guaranteed time it does counterattack from the city garrsion, is when roads are in place next to the city, and he can attack and retreat safely back to the city. Roads are not required when they have mounted (movement 2) units, but that is how the AI thinks most of the time. There is a trigger for 'last ditch' efforts to cripple your assault, but usually it is too late if you are performing a well prepared fortified assault with reinforcements incoming.

Personally, I would think pillaging the road on the hill would be very important. He road/mine is my first choice in pillaging. Burning that slows down Tokugawa's next worker considerably, slows down active defense capabilities (see above) and gives potential for another kidnapping should we be able to keep blackbeard on the hill, while his partner covers his back in the jungle. You took the safe route and I wholly respect your choice. At any turn, tokugawa could've spawned an archer, thus blowing the whole raid (all right, someone else can calculate the numbers for maximum # of turns it'd take tokugawa based on that yield, but it wouldn't be many turns at all). You took toku's mines and then some. Good work!

was gonna edit but you type far too fast..

playing with loading the inital save, bluemarble works fine as does civ scale... need to find that salmon color UI again lol...

My pc likes blue marble much better for some reason, plays much smoother and I like the look better by this point.

I think the culpret is the sevlopeadia as that was the only known mod I had other than what I mentioned.

That's not so easy a change to just swap in and out. So I'll save effing with that for when I'm awake. 4am (430am here now) is where Liq earns his self bestowed Nyquil moniker.

As for the looting I figured I had 4 to 6 turns of loot time.. the roads were secondary.

I agree completely about roads but the first road I would have taken away from the mine right next to kyoto. Blackbeard barely took out the mine for that.

an advanced raid would be to go back and take an archer warrior pair to double pillage those gems then clean out the roads. a hill promoted archer would scare him off from attacking.

Actually that gambit could be done now.. promote the archer to hills then move it up to hook up with darious.

queue up another archer for protection... got more than enough warning if toku is going to attack.

I so love barracks in the early game especially. Half priced barracks is a major reason I love aggressive.

Cheers!
-Liq'd

I agree completely about roads but the first road I would have taken away from the mine right next to kyoto. Blackbeard barely took out the mine for that.

Here is the gamble that I did not wish to suggest: It may have been possible to assign both warriors to pillage duty, but if Tok had an archer next turn, we might've lost both warriors. Within two turns, the mine and road next to Kyoto are taken out, and the other warrior is almost ready to pillage the farm. Next turn, farm pillaging, and black beard returns from taunting kyoto to return to the original outlying mine. However, this might leave more overall production available to Kyoto, so your way was definitely safer, and probably bought more time to pillage with.


I so love barracks in the early game especially. Half priced barracks is a major reason I love aggressive.

Oh so do I! If I do not need to build stonehenge, barracks can become my first item partially built until pop 2 (next is usually a settler or worker).

Early barracks + Combat I = Instant 35% advantage over melee or archers.

Good job destroying all of Toku's improvements. Pretty soon we'll have more improved lands than him, despite our no-worker start. :)

Should we sign a cease-fire with him to encourage him to train more workers for us to enslave? Or does breaking cease-fires carry too much of a diplomatic penalty? Drasca, do you know under what conditions AI hides his workers in the cities? (We will not be capturing Kyoto for a while, but we can try your worker capture method again if his new worker comes in range.)

About exploration, how long will it be until barbarian galleys appear? Circumnavigation bonus seems too important to risk doing it with a work boat, but if you’ve done it before, we can try it here.

My plan is following: build workboat or galley for circumnavigation, then finish archer, then build [another] galley for short range exploration and settler transport. That galley can be loaded with the warrior from Madrid for more effective exploration (every other turn warrior jumps on shore and returns to boat next turn, before it moves).

For research, I’ll probably finish mining, then go for Priesthood (for Oracle), Bronze Working and Iron Working. Does this plan sound ok?

I’ll play tonight or tomorrow night.

If you're worried about breaking a ceasefire, simply declare peace. You can break that at any time. Toku must be willing to speak with you first, though. Have enough turns passed for that?

Cease fire can be broken at any time. Peace treaties cannot declare war for 10 turns.

As for barbarian galleys, you pretty much have free reign. Barbarian galleys are extremely unlikely. A second workboat is likely the best bet for its cost.

Research wise: It is is almost too late to grab oracle (I daresay we'll be unable to), and we need an archer immediately if we want to keep up our blockade/worker denial strategy. That's ok. Stonehenge is more useful to us anyways. We should make a run for great lighthouse or colossus. If you can grab stonehenge right now, it'd be wonderful.

I am not entirely sure about the worker garrison thing. I believe if you're in, or near their city radious, the AI gets paranoid about their workers. Press your advantages. For the warrior, that means staying in the jungle, but he'll need backup soon. That fortify bonus on top of jungle tile is enough to keep ONE archer away. I'm not sure he'll heal in time for the second one built.

Also, if you're within their road movement, and they have 'spare' troops, they'll attack. If you plan to use that hill to your advantage, I recommend one archer immediately, a workboat, then another archer. Promote that archer to hills defense before you move in. 2nd archer with Combat I--->Cover would also be deal. Those jungles and forests give us enough of an advantage to scare Osaka, and if he dares attack, the Cover archer can pillage with impunity.

Actually, AI's only attack with "spare troops" in addition to their city defenders. Tokugawa's one of the ones that builds almost nothing by 'spare troops.'

If Tokugawa offers a peace treaty, don't take it. If you really want a cease fire... offer him one yourself, but if you look at his culture, he we won't be able to penetrate his lands in time. Toku's peace treaties are really just for him to rearm. Don't take allow him, and don't accept peace. He is a lesser man! Force his hand!

List of possible things Zeviz can do:
1. Start stonehenge or great lighthouse--We could really use stone henge for a great prophet, but GLH is not bad either. Cabin boy mine the gems, and forest chop the plains hill south of the gems, then mine.
2. Workboat/Galley Explore eastern front via galley / boat. I suggest workboat, it is cheaper, and we need cheap long range scouts, not short range military / transport boats right now). This is your call however. We're not all that far off from getting circumnavigation, so a galley would be a good choice after all.
3) Archer pillage offense, need two, one on the hill near Kyoto with hills defenses, the other pillaging elsewhere. Possibly third later on for home defense.
4) Check every turn if we can get open borders with Lizzy.
5) Deny Tokugawa peace. Militarily, peace takes away our advantage, and lets him come back with millions more troops. Diplomatically, Tokugawa is also usually the 'safe bet' to declare war on. He's so isolationist most of the time, most other AI's dislike him.
6) Settler? Probably a good idea, especially if you get a galley and see some Iron/Bronze resources. I would like stonehenge asap for a Holy Shrine to spread judaism for us, but this is a strong choice when paired with galley, and defintely a choice we need to take if we see Iron/Bronze on some nearby island. We'll also want horses, but that can wait for now.

The anti-cheating checkbox is more trouble than it is worth. Here is the latest save modified to remove (hopefully) that checkbox.

to to stress, after reinstalling blue marble, I went back to my save in 1600 and looked hard at the path for the work boat.

unless we get open borders with vicky(?), the only costal path westward is most likey north of vicky as south just took me east and towarsd the polar cap.

Get open borders with the white civ to the west, go east with the original work boat, or pop a new one and go east.

and yes, no peace for toku, he's a military monster if you let him be.

Cheers!
-Liq

1600BC (turn 0) Despot Zeviz takes over the Holy Spanish Empire. Our glorious empire is home to 3 religions and Port Madrid is training first archers to go and challenge those Japanese cowards, who are hiding in their cities. We are almost done with research into Mining, so our newly captured slaves can build a mine.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/RB10_western_exploration_1600BC.JPG

The only trouble happens at the docks, where unemployed sailors are getting into a lot of drunken fights. The despot decides to remedy this situation by building a Galley to send around the world. He considers building a workboat instead, but the difference in cost is small and there are no fishes nearby for our boat to fish when exploration is done, whe a galley will be necessary for settlers.

Our brave explorers in the west are sent south-west, because a small island there looks like a possible bridge to more distant lands.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/our_lands_1600BC.JPG

IBT: Those Japanese cowards have trained an archer in Osaka.

1560BC (1) Our western explorers continue their exploration and sailors continue drinking in Port Madrid bars. 7 turns until galley is ready.

IBT: a Japanese archer leaves Kyoto and one of their warriors leaves Osaka. Darius Drake laughs in the face of this cowardly combat I archer. (I consider moving him back to a jungle hill, but this will cause him to lose fortification bonus, so he will not gain anything from the move.)

1520BC (2) We learn mining and start learning Bronze Working, to find bronze and chop forests on hills. Our slaves start building a mine on Gems. Madrid switches to training an archer.

1480BC (3) Darius bravely defeats Japanese archer, but is seriously wounded, so I take him back towards a jungle hill in our territory to heal faster and get a better combat advantage. Our western explorers can't proceed west and might have to turn back north.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/RB10_troop_positions_1440BC.JPG

1440BC (4) We have trained an archer in Madrid and go back to constructing a galley. Japanese warrior cowardly retreats towards Osaka, so our archer moves forward to meet him (and to cover wounded Darius).

1400BC (5) Japanese warrior ran back to hide in Osaka at the mere sight of our Archer. The archer and Darius proceed to jungle hill, where they will meet and fortify together. Our slaves have completed the mine, so we start working it, instead of one of the forests. This will stop our growth, but we are at happiness limit already. Research time for Bronze working decreases from 6 to 4 turns.

1360BC (6) Our slaves are sent to mine another hill. Japanese warrior works up the courage to approach the hill where Darius and archer are meeting.

1320BC (7) The warrior tries to go past our archer. We attack and easily win. (2.0/3 strength)

1280BC (8) Our archer takes 2 hill defense promotions and prepares to heal before moving towards a hill near Kyoto.

1240BC (9) We learn Bronze working, but don't see bronze anywhere. We research Agriculture(4) to farm the corn to be able to grow while working mines, before going on to Iron Working. Our sailors rejoice as we complete our first Galley. The ship is immediately sent on its first voyage of great discovery to the east, past Japanese lands.

Our holy people complain that they don't have a suitable place of worship, so we start work on Stonehenge(12). This will let us train Great Prophets to construct our holy shrines, as well as improving culture in all our cities.

1200BC (10) All units are still unmoved. I'd move the archer and warrior to the hill overlooking Kyoto. Hill II archer is almost invulnerable in his current location, but we won't catch any more workers if he stays there.

Note somebody's yellow border to our south-east.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/RB10_yellow_border.JPG

I am not sure if it makes sense to go for Stonehenge. Calendar is a high priority for us both for advanced ships and because we have silk and dyes. Once we discover Calendar, Stonehedge will stop producing GPPs. So we might be better off using the production to train a settler and just hiring some priests in production-poor cities later. I've put only 1 turn of production into it, so perhaps the next player should cancel it and start training a settler.

Hill II archer is almost invulnerable in his current location, but we won't catch any more workers if he stays there.

The opportunity window for capturing workers has gone. Toku's large cultural borders, roaded hills, and the fact he goes bonkers with military, will make it impossible for us to get any more, and if we do get more from him, it'll be at too high a cost. We don't need anymore right now.

Note somebody's yellow border to our south-east..

Probably Huayana Cupac. Looks too light to be Mali. Quecha (warrior UU) Spiritial / Financial civ. Isn't the most powerful around, but can't let him have the opportunity.


I am not sure if it makes sense to go for Stonehenge. Calendar is a high priority for us both for advanced ships and because we have silk and dyes. Once we discover Calendar, Stonehedge will stop producing GPPs

That's a very good point. Do we have any access to buildings that allow us to use a Priest specialist right now? Temple or Monastery? Either way, I've delayed our expansion phase long enough. We're probably behind badly. We should build a settler, possibly two.

The galley has enough time to do some exploring. I suggest northeast towards Lizzy, trying to get open borders along the way.

I think, however, we should gamble putting the settler on your newly built galley and expand elsewhere. If we build something on this island, that's just one more place to defend against the land-bound Tokugawa, and I don't see any crucial resources here right now.

Stonehenge isn't prioritized with the AI anyways. I don't think calender justifies not taking stonehenge, because we NEED that first holy shrine to spread our state religion, but we need to expand first.

S.ilver -- UP
ndthsmdy -- On deck, start swabbing
Drasca -- La la la
Liq -- Land Pirate
Zeviz -- Sailor King

wow there really is no bronze anywhere we've seen. that's silly. hope we have some iron.

Seems osaka's location is as good as anywhere such that we might as well let it grow to 2 then capture it, saving us the settler.

imo pop a few cheap warriors and give them combat 1, any fight they get into gives them a chance to become cheap medics that will get attacked last the remainder of the game.:lol:

don;t see how toku is land locked btw, both towns he has are costal.

Cheers!
-Liq

Lurker's comment: The northernmost tile of that bit of land Huayana's on looks tempting for a city spot to me, particularly if there's any fishes or anything east of it. It's also worth noting that putting a road on those gems will take Madrid back to a position where it can grow without becoming unhappy - not sure if you've got the wheel yet, though :P

He's land locked because we're going to control the sea, and his ability to expand. He's too focused on us to think: Oh I should build a galley and run far far away.

Warriors are too outdated at this point to be of any use. As for Osaka, we'll likely flip it. No need to conquer.

We need to find an island with iron. Horses too, but Iron first.

I just typed a long reply that got eaten by the board. :( So here is the summary:

If primary purpose for Stonehenge is to get a prophet we are better off hiring a priest:
Stonehenge makes 2 GPPs, so 50 turns for a Prophet. Priest makes 3 GPPs, so 34 turns for a Prophet. Stonehenge has 10 turns left. Priest can be hired in less time than that. (about 6 turns to research Priesthood and a couple turns to build discounted temple) Running a priest, instead of working that forested hill will cost us 2 hammers per turn (but give 1 extra gpt), but Stonehenge will cost over 100 hammers to complete, so running a priest long enough to generate 1 prophet will also save us production.

Conclusion: we should probably switch from Stonehenge to Archer->Settler, putting in Temple as soon as we discover Priesthood. And switch research to Priesthood -> Iron Working.

EDIT: Another thought I had is that if western workboat doesn't find a passage near islands it's currently exporing, we should bring it home for more short-range exploration. There has to be some metal near the coast on a map like this, so we probably just need to explore more around home. Our east-bound Galley can complete circumnavigation on its own.

I'll get to it in 5 hours. It looks like we really want to concentrate on some expansion.

I agree with the synopsis that any effort put towards Stonehenge would be better used elsewhere. I'm not a huge fan of specialists (probably will become one here), but it's probably much better saving that production for actual units and settlers.

Any ideas how we're going to nab new workers?

looking Good guys!! No workers...... Nice Variant :crazyeye:

Normally, I am not a big fan of specialists either, but we've made a huge investment into religion in this game and the only way for it to pay off is to get a great prophet ASAP (the sooner we put up a shrine, the faster our religion will start spreading to AIs, giving us financial and diplomatic benefits). According to the calculations from my previous post, the fastest way for us to make a great prophet is to hire a priest for 34 turns.

About workers, this map needs very few workers anyway. We have all we need for now and we'll get more with captured AI cities in the future. (In my solo game, even the workers that I did capture spent most of the time sleeping, because there was nothing for them to do.)

Thanks for the analysis Zev! I didn't consider discounted temples. That's a great alternative.

Yes, we need an expansion push. We need Iron, then we need horses.

(0)1200BC: Preflight check. Confirmed on the hill north of Kyoto. Smacking the mines would take out a lot of Toku's cash, but we'll see what he's rebuilt when we get there.

I would withdraw the workboat, but there's nothing for it to do. So carry on!
The Henge will be done in 11 turns. Settler will take 13. So be it. I lose two gold so I can work the corn, and then turn around and move one of the forest workers to the mine. Ok! 10 turns! Heh. That just means someone else will be able to use him when he pops out.

(1)1160BC: Cabin boy will be able to farm that corn in two turns, but he can be there this turn. A slight waste, but there's little I can do about that.

(2)1120BC: Cabin boy scrubs the ground around the corn in anticipation.

Definately is HC there.

(3)1080BC: Agri comes in. We want Iron! Let's go! 12 turns. I'll see if I can fix that up, but probably not at the expense of the settler. Nope. Can't do anything to net us more gold.

Cabin Boy. Build a farm... in 5 turns. Err. I somehow remember it being less than that. Oh well. It will definately help.

Mr. Brillaint Toku has built another archer.

(4)1040BC: Now he either built a worker, or one just waltzed in from the countryside. Another worker in Kyoto. Won't be able to have it unless we take Kyoto, which doesn't look promising right now. I rip up the road outside Kyoto.

(5)1000BC: I reckon Toku built that worker. There isn't anything he could've been doing with it...

(6)975BC: These boats are slow... No other comment. I hope we get the circumnavigate.

(7)950BC: Bad news. Confucianism was founded. And someone built the Orcale. We need another city...

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c320/rtchin/Civ4ScreenShot0117.jpg

I see a goodyhut across the water from Kyoto. I'm gonna pick up the warrior and try to get it.

(8)925BC: Farm is finally done this turn. Settler done in 2 turns. I don't think it helped... Now what shall cabin boy do? I'm gonna get him to chop the forest two tiles north of Madrid. That way we can irrigrate it if we want. No pottery yet for cottages.

(9)900BC: I'm gonna chop it in a combined action turn. I want the forest useable, and I don't want the hammers too fast, due to building a military unit after the settler to escort it.

(10)875BC: Settler done, start on archer for 2 turns as escort.

The goody hut gives us 51 gold. Not too bad.

Turn synopsis.

Somewhere during my turns, Toku added another archer to Osaka. Also, it appears that he's built a settler in Kyoto. I have no idea if it's going to move out with an archer or not.

Work boat is attempting to find an arctic passage to score us the circum. Galley went around HC and his water culture. Should be able to get through.

Our continent is corn happy. 5 corns on a single continent? We must be the world's source of corn.

I left the settler unmoved, I don't know where you guys want him, and I was going to wait for the archer. But seeing as our culture reveals most of the continent near us, it's safe to send him south if we want him there. Although I see him better placed on the northwest penninsula somewhere, to take advantage of those silks.

Darius is on the continent where I found the goody hut. Personal call whether to move him back or let him explore there. Who knows? He may help with the circumnav :P. Although we may need most of our military at home.

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c320/rtchin/Civ4ScreenShot0119.jpg

Gaaaaat it. Play tomorrow.

Strat question: how many cities are we planning to build here? Not many more after this one coming in, right?

we really need to know where iron is before plopping that settler down.

we need metal for sure and this is going to be a low city game.

Cheers!
-Liq

Fewer cities to start with, but I plan on grabbing as much territory as I can get my hands on, by sail or by sword--probably both.

(0) 875 BC: Moved by the spirit of Liq and hoping to goad our work boat into snagging circumnavigation, I christen it "TheYar'inestVesselTharBe." We salute you, plucky fishermen.

Gov back on to emphasize commerce. Archer in 3, IW in 4

(1) 850 BC: E Galley finds orange borders. Great. I love Cathy. Prospects look good for a NW passage though:

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d59/ndthsmdy/Civ4ScreenShot0178.jpg

(2) 825 BC: Cathy's the one who did Oracle-Confucianism. She's the leader in score.

(3) 800 BC: Archer>Archer

(4) 775 BC:

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d59/ndthsmdy/Civ4ScreenShot0180.jpg

Oh and guess what...NO IRON.

Toku, of course, has some.

Not us though.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d59/ndthsmdy/Civ4ScreenShot0181.jpg

Animal Husbandry next, praying for horsies.

Settler and Archer going NW.

(5) 750 BC: Silver's got a chop coming in next turn. Great Lighthouse would be sweet, but I'm worried about not getting it (we're too behind to waste shields like that). Stonehenge could be done in 6-7, but we pretty much decided against that. Temple would be best, but no Priesthood.

So it's a Jewish Monastery. The tech bonus is sorely needed, and Cathy has somehow spread Confucianism already to TWENTY FOUR PERCENT OF THE WORLD :eek:

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d59/ndthsmdy/Civ4ScreenShot0182.jpg

(6) 725 BC: Archer>Monastery.

(7) 700 BC:

(8) 675 BC: Monastery>Work Boat.

(9) 650 BC: DAMMIT, NO HORSIES EITHER. Major bummer :( At least Toku doesn't have them.

I start The Wheel. Madrid is unhealthy, and we need to get to Pottery so we can build a Granary and do some whipping.

Barcelona founded to the NW. Fishes, Corn, couple hills. Should be solid. Cabin Boy starts on the Corn. Obelisk ordered up (need expansion for the fish).

(10) 625 BC: Nothin

On the good side, we are thisclose to circumnav

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d59/ndthsmdy/Civ4ScreenShot0183.jpg

We're at -4 now, Wheel in 1. I recommend using the Work Boat coming out of Madrid to look for an island to the west that will, you know, actually support a military. It will be a while before it's needed at Barcelona.

Not a peep from Toku during my turns. He has 3 Archers in each city now, but didn't move a single unit. Keep an eye on that Iron by Kyoto.

The Galley-Warrior unit can be moved somewhere else as soon as circumnav comes in. The Warrior's done exploring, and the Galley's trying to meet up with the YVTB.

We've got to find some resources.

well the metal situation is bad.

No copper no iron no horses even.

The closest known iron and horses are north of our island.


http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/liquidated/iron.jpg


That location nets us iron, a hill (bleh desert) rice and fish.. That's a nice combination of food hammers to start growing with and the costal tiles will support themselves food wise.

Plop the city down and can hook up the iron immediatly giving it the hammers it needs to build up a culture building.

Not too far away and nice costal town period.

Also, toku had a settler which is no longer in kyoto, prolly means he snuck out that settler and has a 3rd city somewhere. should find it post haste, last thing we need is toku to get metal.

Seems that to fight toku, we are going to need cats.

Cheers!
-Liq

I agree that we have to settle that iron site right away, hoping that nobody else got there first.

For research, I'd beeline for Alphabet right now, because that's our only hope of catching up. Normally I might stop by at Pottery for Cottages, but we have only 1 worker and he is going to be away connecting Iron, so I am not sure whether he'll have time to construct any cottages.

What about settling right on top of the Iron, so we wouldn't have to wait for a second Galley to bring the worker? (The first Galley would have room only for Settler+escort.)

All this gloom and doom. I'm positively elated! Good work finding Iron and Horses. Soon have both , and you know what that means? Swords, axemen, and eventually, Conquistadors ahoy! Confucianism is likely to be two cities, out of probably 8-10 cities total so far. We're not doomed on the religion front yet. If we can convert HC southeast of us early, we can use him as an ally against Cathy or Vicky. In fact, he's perfect for it. Aggressive and Spiritual personality means he values his religion and hates religious differences greatly, and he's very willing to go to war.

I'm disappointed you settled to the landbound northwest. That is just one more landbound spot to defend, and it does not hold any vital resources. I thought liq's statement of "we need iron before settling" was enough. I am not happy I didn't stress this either. However, what is done is done. Brooding doesn't help. You did what you thought was right, and we'll work with it.

I see an obelisk is queued there. We won't need it. The fish will require a cultural expansion, workboat, and won't contribute to production. We can mine the plains hills with our corn resource food surplus. I suggest for Barcelona, we start an archer, grow to pop 2, and start a settler. Why Barcelona?

Wonder Option: Great lighthouse in Madrid. We need it desperately. We cannot let this wonder fall into someone else's hands, not on this map. Economies will soar or pitifully fall behind with the GLH on water maps. I prefer this one.

Military: Archers. We have a pitiful military on this island. Settling landbound has weakened our position, because we defending two cities instead of one.

Expansion: Settler in Madrid and land with our worker where darius is. This is a water map, thus very few landbound barbarians. In fact, since this is prince and a water map, we can expect to face very few barbs. We'll still need to work on an archer asap, but that won't be difficult when the iron mine gets worked.

Looks like I'm up.

Edit: One more thing. Let me stress. CANCEL ALL MOVEMENT ORDERS on your last turn. You are not to assign what the next player will do. Exception: Worker improvements. You must however, note you are farming or mining, or whatnot. Players, if you see the previous player has assigned movement orders to units you didn't want moving, feel free to reload one to the original turn.

Confucianism is likely to be two cities, out of probably 8-10 cities total so far.

The religion percentages are calculated by '# of pop points with the religion/total pop points in the world.' If our 6 pop in Madrid is only good for 4%, that means there are 36 pop points out there with Confucianism. A Prince game is not going to have just 8-10 cities in 625 BC; most civs probably have 3 or 4 by now.

If we can convert HC southeast of us early, we can use him as an ally against Cathy or Vicky. In fact, he's perfect for it. Aggressive and Spiritual personality means he values his religion and hates religious differences greatly, and he's very willing to go to war.

This is not correct. Leader traits do not dictate AI behavior--the XML values do. And in HC's case, he has to be Friendly with you, and Annoyed or below with the civ you want him to declare on in order for him to even consider going to war for you. He has other perks as an ally, but fighting for/with you is not one of them (see: Liq's Monarch OCC game he just finished). He is one of the worst in that regard.

I'm disappointed you settled to the landbound northwest. That is just one more landbound spot to defend, and it does not hold any vital resources. I thought liq's statement of "we need iron before settling" was enough.

Your points are valid. But at the same time, we had already wasted a few turns sitting on that Settler, and we had no means of transportation--we would have either needed to build another Galley in Madrid, or called back that Galley in the east, leaving the Warrior. Barcelona, meanwhile, will have high food, high commerce, and decent production, and because it is close it will more than pay for itself. Yes, we will have to have more defenders, but we will also have twice the production to produce them.

We also have unexplored land immediately to the SW. There could very well be Iron and/or Horses much closer to Madrid. I agree we need another Settler ASAP, along with a Galley poised to send it directly to the nearest Iron as soon as it gets built, but while it is building and we're recalling the Galley we can be looking for a better option in our backyard with the Work Boat coming out of Madrid next turn. Unless we're implementing OCC strategies, having only 1 city in 700 BC on Prince is a receipe for falling behind (if we're not already). Given this, I felt the best thing to do was settle the best available spot, get it running, and prepare for the next one to get the closest available Iron.

Edit: One more thing. Let me stress. CANCEL ALL MOVEMENT ORDERS on your last turn.

My bad. I'd sent that E Galley somewhere. I just forgot

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v241/DrascaGW/RB%20SG/625BCmoves.jpg

N played a strong set of moves, exploring the northwest passage that enabled me to get circumnavigation this round, and discovered Iron/Horses. I salute you.

625: Inherited turn. Cancel all movement orders, begin massive troop movements everywhere. We cannot afford to sit idly by in cities. We're pirates, we're raiders, we will who fight in the enemy hills overlooking their cities. Will fight in jungles blockading their path to us. We will fight and conquer our way overseas!

I grumble a lot but settling landbound is not a bad move. We can work on archers earlier, and cabin boy gets something to do.

Madrid: We don't need a second workboat right now. Archer immediately. Cancel that and move it to the end of build queue. We can afford to let it decay. Workboat isn't a priority as we have a workboat almost complete with circumnavigation, and galley on en route home.

Barcelona: Swap Obelisk to Archer. Queue orders for Sassy from Barcelona to support Desperate Dan, the archer next to Kyoto. Bo jangles will start the next turn, when Norm comes home to drink and 'protect' madrid. I don't want unhappiness. Archer in 3 turns.

Cabin boy will fiinish the farm, then begin a mine. Barc will grow a turn faster once the farm finishes, just in time for the mine.

Yar'inestVesselThatBe: Head southwest around that island instead of north. We're getting close to the polar ice caps. I don't want that that to blockade us.

Galley: Now named mermaid's luck, cancelled movement orders. I think YVTB can circumnavigate alone.

Lizzie: Negotiate Open borders. We'll try to convert her to us later.

HC: Nothing to do. We'll convert later.

Cathy: Hates us. Nothing to do.

Darious: Cancel orders for two moves, and move only onto the desert hill, then he'll head back east to fogbust.

I am not happy with the troop movements in the previous turns. We've lost the blockade. I'll remedy this. We need an active blockade, not city defenders. I cannot stress this enough. We cannot afford our troops to be sitting at home waiting for enemies to come to us. We need to keep Japan on the defensive and intercept any incoming pillagers in the jungle before they make it to our improvements.

600BC (1): Wheel discovered. Judaism spread to Barc.

Yar'inestVesselThatBe: Moves southwest and discovers copper on grassland hills.

Mermaid's luck: Moves southwest, and discovers a second source of Iron next to the sheep. Lucky indeed! We have a 4th settle position.

After some thought, I decide to start researching metal casing. Reason? Our rivals are more likely to get alphabet than we are, and it is too late to bee line for an early alphabet. Besides that, we don't have much to trade at this point, most worker techs are likely to be learned or traded, and the rest are too valuable. Since this is a sea map, we also need to value colossus greatly.

Barcelona: Switched from working lake to working grassland forest. This saves us a turn building great lighthouse. With the -1 health problems killing one food, and two food for next pop, we won't get more production out of a new pop growth.

Japan: Has moved an archer from Kyoto towards us for Pillaging duty. Bo jangles moves to intercept via jungle blockade. We absolutely NEED this blockade.

575 (2): Japan notices we're advancing, and japan instead returns his pillage duty archer back home to defend kyoto rather than raid.. Whew. We NEED to keep him on the defensive.

Mermaid's luck notes the land north is pretty harsh but for the sheep. That'll allow us some production from the Iron Mine

550 (3):

Madrid archer complete. GLH work begun. 15 turns. We're going to lose stonehenge, but I've been convinced SH is a bad idea, and GLH is far more powerful for this map. Pottery done next turn, due to being required for Metal Casing. Additional trade routes may also spread our religion(s) faster.

TYVTB: Heads west and southwest. A small island will allow us circumnav next turn.

525 (4):

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v241/DrascaGW/RB%20SG/525Archers.jpg

HC converts to Bhuddism. We'll have to keep this in mind. We only get -2 relations, probably for having his Holy city. I am not sure.

Japan decides to send another archer to pillage after all. He hasn't moved his worker yet. That is good. Oh no. He might want to guard that Iron. Move Dan southwest to counter once we get bo jangles here. We cannot allow Japan to get to that Iron!

500 (5): Circum bonus. Huzzah! Three movement galleys is so sweet. That's +50% movement.

Archer from Kyoto retreats again. Whew. I notice Japan has expanded north of his position. So long as we deny him iron, we can still keep an advantage until we can get iron ourselves.

TYVTB starts heading back towards Lizzie, hoping to explore her territory with the new Open Borders agreement. Metal casing in 22 turns.

Sassy moves next to Osaka, onto the Jungle/Hill tile, and promoted to combat I. She'll be used to intercept anything that comes from Osaka. If Sassy is attacked next turn, she'll be able to fend off up to two defenders, and should be promoted to cover for anti-archers. Osaka has 3 archers, one warrior. I have a choice to move the Madrid archers north to support Sassy, or east to maintain the Iron denial. Kyoto has a road toward that iron, that means Japan can get an archer to the iron resource within two turns, and a worker within one--but since I moved Dan southwest, he won't risk moving his worker onto the Iron

I decide to move Madrid's archer north after all. I don't want to risk losing Sassy, and Bo Jangles will likely be able to hold off the Iron mine--but will not be able to pillage the road leading toward the Iron mine. Japan has three City Garrison I archers there, and a combat I archer. He plans to fight with that combat I archer. Let's not let him get the chance.

I stress. We do not have enough military to defend everywhere. We do not have enough military to attack. We DO have enough military, with careful manuevering, to keep Japan off balance, and hold him off from Iron (key resource).

475 (6) Japan moves his combat I archer into the forest tile southwest, next to the iron. We cannot bluff him much anymore. If he gets that combat I archer down there, and fortifies, we aren't going to be able to displace him. Desperate dan will earn his name, with promotions useless to grassland defense, he'll go southward --- unless this is a trick to get onto the hills tile on our north where dan is. What a choice. Dan will... If the Japan gets onto the Iron mine, Bo jangles will promote to combat I and attack, and likely die. Then we'll just have to hope Dan can finish the combat I archer off. Madrid archer is moving to support, but needs four turns.

Cabin boy onto plains tile and mining. Done in 4. TYVTB en route to Lizzie. Drake made it to the eastern hill, and is now heading back west to fogbust that way.

450 (7):

Desperate Dan dies, but weakens the japanese archer enough for Bo Jangles to finish him off. It is not good. Another archer combat I moves into the forest east of us. Let's pray he doesn't attack.

Sassy is attacked next to Osaka and survives. As predicted, AI's only attack with 'spare' units, not everything. Sassy promotes to cover.

425 (8): Every moment of respite is needed. I wish I moved Madrid's archer eastward earlier. This is a dangerous situation, even with cover.

I should've done this last turn. Sassy begins heading towards Bo jangles.

TYVTB discovers York and lizzie has copper mine next to it with a spearman guarding.

400 (9) Bo Jangles survives a combat I archer attack, barely. 0.3 Strength left. Cabin boy finishes mine, and Barcelona will have an archer in two turns. Merlaid's luck will park next to Barcelona, to quickly transport the archer there next turn to Tokugawa's Iron mine. Mermaid's luck can get there in as little as four turns.

375 (10): Stonehenge Fidal. Looking at the info screen, Russia had the oracle, england has stonehenge. Russia having a Holy shrineable GPP production isn't a good thing, but stonehenge being in English, not russian territory is a good one.

Madrid is trading with London. That is a good thing. Possibility of religion spreading to London that way. Barcelona trading with York, even more chance of religion spread Lizzie before Cathy spreads confucianism.

GLH Done in 8 turns, Madrid will grow pop in 10 turns, requiring 10 food. Roading requires will be complete in 3 turns, 7 food left then at 2 food pt, so four turns at that point. Madrid growth in 7 turns total when we road corn.

Since judaism spread to Barcelona, culture was produced every turn, borders will expand next turn. We can build a workboat in as little as 6 turns, or an archer in 5. I suggest a workboat then archer, as Barcelona will grow in 3 turns.

Liq, you absolutely need to continue moving Sassy to support Bo Jangles. Although I do enjoy telling people what to do, and I generally respect different decisions if they can be made to our advantage, I ask you do not argue with my decision on this. That Iron Mine denial is too important. You need archers fortified there fast establish a permanent military force there. Look below for the suggested galley motion on the matter. Japan has 3 cities. We have 2. Japan produces archers all the time, we're busy holding our own for a GLH. Our advantage is the 3 movement Galley, early trade routes, archers in key positions and religion. We can do this, but every turn matters.

You'll have to pull an advance galley move. Move the archer onto the galley, move the galley towards the Iron Mine, and move the archer off the galley just as the galley uses its last movement points.

Feel free to delay GLH in madrid for one archer, but don't delay it any more than that. We aren't facing industrious civs, but delaying GLH any more than that. We need this wonder, unlike oracle or stonehenge, GLH will serve us for most of the game.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v241/DrascaGW/RB%20SG/BattlePlan.jpg

Osaka has had 2-4 turns of archer production at 2 Hammer total. That's around 8 out of likely 23 complete. You'll have 7 turns before Osaka produces another archer. In Barcelona, I've queued an archer after this current to counter the one in Osaka. Once the Iron Mine designated archer is built, you need to get an archer to brown dot ASAP, whether from Barc or Madrid (delaying GLH).

I am worried for our civilization, but we have a STRONG fighting chance if we can hold the Iron Mine away from Japan, and establish a presence at Brown and Orange dot jungles. I bet there's an archer on the gems mine but he won't likely attack. He might, but AI's usually value defending essential resources and there's another in production

Cathy is willing to offer Open borders. I leave it to you to decide whether to take it or not.

Ah I forgot to discuss what A B C and D are for. These are the possible road paths. Blue B and A are first priority.

I suggest roading B's first tile before A. That'll give Barcelona's next queued archer a turn extra land movement, then complete A for the health bonus.

It is up to you to decide whether to pink road D, or yellow road C. Both are good choices.

The galley isn't actually queued to move, that's just the suggested path and landing spot. You'll need to load the archer north onto the galley. Do not move the galley until the archer moves north onto the coast tile. You needn't move the galley inside the city for the archer to load onto him.

I am not playing with children, but please bear with me. I wish to give no quarter to chance. Every movement point counts right now.

Barcelona will be pop 3 soon, and able to take advantage of that fish tile, but do this after our archers complete. We need military now

The only thing I would be concerned about is if you settle the Iron to the NE, how do you plan on keeping the trade route open? I've run into trouble in past games because I gathered resources so far away I couldn't get them to the capital. I assume you can't trade through enemy borders, but at least you have a passage open to the N. Should you try to build a settlement up there as well to ensure the route stays open?

More stuff from the save:

-Why is an Obelisk still queued up in Barcelona when it already has Judaism generating culture there? Seems like a waste of 5 turns when you desperately need military.
-You could complete a workboat in Madrid in one turn. I'd suggest building it after the archer just to use those hammers before they decay, then either send it South to explore the land down there (you do not want to settle that northern island and then find there was Iron right by your doorstep) or hook up Barcelona's fish.
-As for the roads, next archer is queued up in 5 turns. It takes 2 turns to put down one road. The workers could hook up the corn (2 turns), move down (1 turn), and build that helper road (2 turns) before the archer pops. Therefore I'd suggest A, then B, to avoid unnecessary backtracking.
-Madrid's ready to revolt. With half-cost temples & only 3 turns to research Priesthood, it should be a priority.
-Speaking of revolting, how come you haven't switched to Slavery yet? You don't even have to worry about Anarchy! Shaaaame, shaaaaame...

You're right on all points, except trade routes. We've got so much coast in between us and the northern Iron islands, I'm not worried about Tokugawa blockading us. We should get priesthood, but we should to get forges and colossus asap after Military.

Luckily, slavery doesn't actually save us any actual money, and we're a spiritual civ so... we're in the clear for that!

Here's the save with modified save with different queues, but slavery is hasn't been revolted to yet. These are only superficial actions, but should make it Liq's turn easier.

1. Drasca -- Done slapping Japanese around for now.
2. Liqudated -- Get out there and show Tokugawa who's owns this land
3. Zeviz -- Get to swabbing!
4. S.ilver -- You ain't in the clear either buddy
5. ndthsmdy -- I've got my eye on you

(Lurker)

Is sea trade blockade even possible in Civ4? I thought that as long as there is SOME sea path between two coastal cities that doesn't pass through an enemy culture tile, then there is a trade route.

It is blockable, but that takes a lot of cultural borders, say, on a pangea map, or custom continents and it blocks the coast when you're unable to travel over sea. In our case, there's too much coast for that to matter. We're already trading with england. We won't have trouble with our new cities.

Drasca: dictate my turn all you need.

I'd rather have a VERY clear idea what's at risk and act accordingly, even if it's not explicitly said...

got it, let me finish the reading your turn summary and the lurker comments.

nice yoyo work on toku.


and oooooo yeah liq is all about saving time on water movement lol.


good news and bad news...

good news is toku is nursing his wounds, bad news I never started fraps for the screen shots :eek: so none of them took =/

incoming boring report. =/

Cheers!
-Liq

Thanks for the receptive attitude Liq. I actually got really lucky there until I realized what was going on. I should've moved an archer onto the mine ASAP. We've only got about slightly better than 50% chance denying Tokugawa the Iron until we get reinforcements in.

Mounting an effective offensive strategy is greatly about having units where you want them, when you want them. Speed and timing of action. You get there first, you dictate the terms of battle. Mongols knew this. Napoleon knew this.

To do this here, you need to understand how the following logistics work:

The rules of loading/unloading units and their land movement were modified to as follows:

1. Boarding land unit onto a galley on coast from land uses up all unit's movement.
2. If loaded from city into galley in city (docked), land unit movement is not used until galley used until galley runs out of movement points.
3. If unit is already loaded onto galley, movement is not consumed when galley finishes using up movement points. However, these units are automatically asleep until awoken, so you have to wake them up manually to move them, and get the most out of their mobility. This is a slight flaw in the AI.

So, it is possible to move that archer onto the mine in exactly four turns. In the same turn, you'll board the galley on coast from the city, then move the galley to point 1. Three turns later, the galley will be at point 4, luckily still with a movement point left, and you'll need to wake the archer inside.

Another aspect is roading through forest to get your archers into forest before Japan can, and manuevering backwards to home territory if they try to ignore you (which they won't likely do so).

I find roads more important to pillage than actual improvements. If I could, I'd pillage roads first. This is how much I value them. They're key to your defensive, and key to your offensive. Use them to get to the Key Positions: Brown dot, Orange dot, and Iron Mine.

Iron Mine of Primary Importance: Hold this at almost any cost--You need Great Light House though. Don't delay more than one archer at Madrid.

Orange Dot: Jungle Strait. You can hold off a lot of Japanese attacks from here, and scare them into avoiding using their workers

Brown Dot: Keeps the odd archer pillager from actually pillaging, instead, it will attack this highly foritied jungle/hills position.

If we can secure these positions thoroughly, 4-5 archers (one promoted to medic) at the iron mine, 2-3 at Brown dot, a few at Orange if we can't have Iron. Possibly a few more at the hills next to Kyoto, but the important ones are Iron and Brown dot. If we secure these, we'll be in a good position to expand northeastward, and expand and conquer whereever else we please.


On the wonder front: We need great light house and colossus. These are key on water maps. Get these, and our economy will be secured. Barcelona will be a fine settler / archer producer once the fish are hooked up, and we can ship colonists to all over the world. If we get these, and expand via our movement 3 galleys, our military, economic and religious might will be unstoppable. Every new city will produce positive income from the start, religion will spread on its own, and we'll be free to produce whatever we'd like.

preturn
omg this is a mess!!!!!! bo jangles????? what the heck kind of pirate name is that matey?

The new stranger in iron town is named "Cirrhosis" Casey Hacke and even though he makes fun of Bo peep, Jangles is happy to see him.

Notice barcs still has an ob in queue so new save!!!


ok let me check out the landscape, that worker idea is ok but I'll hook up corn first.

Keep the archer in madrid going though I'm tempted to sink those hammers into TGL sigh.

[1]350 BC
We get 17 gold from stonehenge, that equates into 4 turns of 100% science so not bad.

Barc pops culture

no activity in kyoto or osaka.

cabin boy goes for farming corn, I decide to do that now and not wait as madrid needs the health.

Barc archer named Shoutin' Argus Kidd -> archer in 5, kidd is enroute to iron town.

Forture favors the bold!!!!
Move hacke down next to the mine to exp up

[2]325 BC
archer on mine attacks!!!
Hacke wins easily and promotes cover. bo is there to take over. btw.:king:

change science to 90% as 100% is simply not sustainable. -2 gold a turn now.

[3]300 BC
Archer from north of kyoto comes down to make up for the archer he killed off. on the mine.

madrid builds archer name him Paraplegic Milt Cooke. stay in town for the happy... ok no herald so move him to brown dott hille.

madrid is going to grow in 3, a granery is 2 so go granery to make up for the whipping.

[4]275 BC
Kidd offloads into iron town using super secret shipping fed ex stylee. Not sure how useful a 0 exp archer is going to be though.

barc has no barracks =/

[5]250 AD
combat one archer approaches iron town.

madrid builds grainery

work boat in 1.

Milt is at brown dot promotes hills.

[6]225 AD
lol combat one archer decides that's a bad idea and runs.

0 xp archer pops in barc.. need exped units else we will just end up exping toku. so barracks in 10

Madrid hits 7 and pops workboat. I revolt slavery then whip an archer for 2 pop loss.

Send workboat over to barc's fish, going to leave 2 turns auto pilot.

5 archers in kyoto now... 2 of them combat one, other 3 city def. so glad I got hacke cover.

[7]200 BC
madrid pops the archer named "Sharkbait" Bailey Dagger and goes for TGL in 7

Dagger heads over to iron town or the orange dot.

Cabin boy is mining the hill south of barc, that town will be an asset once we get the hammers going.
The two combat one archers pop over to the woods next to iron town.

Roads A and B done. I chose hammers for barc over more roads.

[8]175 BC
hmm toku's combat one archers move to the hills north of iron town. Barc will soon no longer be a liability.

pick up No-Eyes Eugene from barc and move him to Darius' location to pre camp.

osaka now has 3 0 EXP archers, milt is 10% fortified.

[9]150 BC

Toku attacks and sassy defeats archer combat 1 with 1.7 health left.

other warrior looks like it's heading to osaka, sharkbait is otw for the jungle block just in time.

[10]125 BC
WOW :eek:

paraplegic owns an osaka warrior that dared tread on Brown Dott Hille... FLAWLESS promote mountain 2 and he's GTG.

ug moved a unit off fortify from a miss click, back up two, play turns same way sorry!

Kyoto has built a galley...

I headed off toku's advances and did not lose a single unit.

Toku lost 4 archers..

one in order to exp hacke in a gamble I made.. I figured get it over with before promoted units come out and he has the advantage still. I won the gamble this time but that will not always be the case.

two freshly minted combat ones from kyoto and the 4th a 0 exp from osaka.

sharkbait is headed to iron town to back up, imo move him to the woods near kyoto and exp to medic.

The whip came at a great time btw, as sharkbait is needed.

Started a late barracks in barc.

Left the 2/3 of the boats on auto course to remind where they are headed. Since we are not out of the woods yet, every turn counts still; so leaving less to chance as to why the workboat is where and why mermaid is hauling a 0 exp archer around.

get sharkbait to iron town.

TGL in 4 dra already queued up a settler, liq didn;t do that!

barc fish hook up next turn, jungle clear and mine will complete in um 7?

FIX barc's worked tiles! Liq screwed around with the water tiles.

Cheers!
-Liq

Notes on :whip:

Every pop whipped is worth about 30 production

There's a penalty for whipping immediately. You'll get more out of it for even producing one hammer into the archer.

You were to whip an archer immediately though. We need military.

You actually LOSE more when you have a high pop city. However, this is OK if those pops are unhappy ones.

7: Hammer is a good choice. Forgot about mine :) But don't forget the power of a military road network, ever.

hmm toku's combat one archers move to the hills north of iron town. Barc will soon no longer be a liability.

That means they want to work the farm north of iron town. Luckily, farms/flatlands is easier to displace.

ug moved a unit off fortify from a miss click, back up two, play turns same way sorry!

Oof. I hate misclicks like that. It is very easy too! Don't worry. You did the right thing.

Kyoto has built a galley...
I was wondering when he'd get around to that. No matter. We still have a massive +50% movement advantage on the high seas.

You did great.

TGL in 4 dra already queued up a settler, liq didn;t do that!

Yes, I did that. I expect an expansion phase after consolidation. Have to see the save to see what exactly's going on, but I think we're just about ready to expand.

Edit: After seeing save. Eeep! No medics! I'm sure you had other priorities though, but... we need to get a medic to Iron town asap.

Whew. No archer north of Iron town. That is a good thing (tm).

Kyoto Galley: Heh, the AI rarely sails out of port when 'under siege', like right now. I doubt he'll expand, but even if he does, we'll be able to outsail him.

Barc: It is actually a good idea to work the water tiles. If you work the water tiles and the farm, Barc can grow in 2 turns instead of 3. That extra pop is more valuable than extra shield right now.

I didn't consider building a barracks because at that point, it'd take too long, and we could have extremely effective archers via using terrain advantage with archer's inherent additional +25% hills defense. We only needed 'enough' archers to make Japan back down from the Iron mine. The AI also goes nuts when you park a military unit next to their city. It doesn't consider terrain advantage very often, so if you can park an archer on a hill next to them, it won't be going anywhere. That is also why I suggest placing an archer on the hill next to Kyoto. It'll prioritize the closer enemy, rather than the more important (in our minds) Iron mine.


Barcelona would be an ideal high pop / high production coastal city. Whip is probably a bad idea since we have two plains mines (4 hammer each) we can work, plus lots of commerce via lighthouse.

Barc: Growing to pop 4 in 2 turns. More like pop 5 in 3-5 turns as the fishing boat arrives. Barcelona will be ideal to build a settler once it reaches pop 5.

Madrid: Needs to finish GLH get working on forges / colossus asap. We cannot delay Great Light house any longer, or we'll likely lose it. I think we have just enough time for an edge over building colossus, but since Lizzy has copper (+100% build to colossus), that edge isn't much.

GLH done in 4 turns, Metal casing in 8. We can also switch working Madrid's grasslands/forest tile, to lake tile without losing turns on GLH, while gaining an extra research turn in Metal casing, and if Barcelona works its sea tiles as well and we go 100% science, we can get Metal casing in 6, with treasury at 45 and -7 gpt, we can do get ultra fast Metal Casing.

If we do that, Madrid has just enough time to squeeze in a workboat or archer before wasting too many turns after discovering metal casing.

Suggested movement: Sharkbait in Mermaid's luck could drop onto the hills tile northwest of Kyoto. That'd provide us a slight advantage in recon and keep the pressure off Iron Mine. Make sure he promotes to medic to counter any damage done to him. Archers on hills get 25% defense from the hill and an additional 25% as a unity ability. 3 x 1.50 = 4.5. With the combat I promotion (3 x 1.10), Sharkie would have a defensive strength total of 4.8, plus first strike, more than enough to counter any of Kyoto's CI archers, and with medic, he'd heal up between archer assaults.

However, this is not absolutely necessary. Zeviz, feel free to unload sharkbait where-ever you feel he'll do most good.

Darius patrol / fogbust on the island should cancel most barb spawning, as prince is pretty lax about barb spawns.


Zeviz, you're up. If you feel the next 10 turns were a total snoozefest, because that's what I think right now, feel free to take a total of 15 turns. I'll extend the next player the same priviledge if there's really not much to do :) No offense to Liq or any of the other players, but the last 20 turns were some of the most important and hectic! These next 10-15 Turns consolidating will probably fly by without all that much to do.


Your priorities should be:
Get our expansion phase into gear!

Barc: Lighthouse or settler (preferably both)

Madrid: Finish GLH / Start forge / colossus.

Explore the world, mark down "I want it" settling spots.

Reseearch: We'll have stone nearby our 4th/5th city, and we need calender eventually, we could take the writing-->math path. That's for sure. Calender or currency next is a kicker, but I'm better since we'll have GLH, we can hold off currency until we grab calender.

Also for anyone reading: Do not forest chop the grassland forests near madrid. We need every production possible. However, feel free to place a mine over the plains / hill to Madrid's southeast. That is our third forest, providing nothing in terms of health or extra production, and we'd gain an extra production plus a small chance of discovering a metal.


3. Zeviz -- UP matey!
4. S.ilver -- Man the cannons!
5. ndthsmdy -- Our navigator

a few things, I timed the whip to get rid of anger and we needed military now, plus delaying TGL more was bad.

4 turns on TGL just let them go and build it. Liq stalled mass on it it needs to get built.

imo take the 0 xp archer and place it in the woods once sharkbait comes in and suck up exp. retreat when beat up.

those combat 1 archers were all about killing iron town, toku doesn;t care about the corn lol

As for the medic... honestly no time to make one, I needed every cover promoted to fight off those combat one archers.


was a gamble round and paid off.. toku lost about a 3rd of his army my turnset.

Cheers!
-Liq

Great work on these last couple of turnsets. :)

I will probably not get to play it today, but will try tomorrow.

For research, I still would like to consider Writing -> Alphabet path, because we can't count on AI to get Alphabet in a reasonable time and I tend to rely on it in my games for an early tech advantage.

For expansion, if our military situation looks solid, I'd like to switch Barc to settler as soon as it grows. I tend to expand slowly myself, but the sooner we get that iron the sooner we'll kill Toku and be able to breeze freely.

as for roads and military.... as far as I'm concerned you need military for those roads to become useful.

Since brown dot is secure barc is in no danger of getting attacked, and without hammers has no capability of making military.

A and B first, mine second, roads to the front third.

just ran out of turns is all.


Cheers!
-Liq

I will probably not get to play it today, but will try tomorrow..

Great! More time to talk before you play.

For research, I still would like to consider Writing -> Alphabet path,..

While I disagree, don't let that stop you, but after metal casing is finished. We want madrid on colossus production asap. Alphabet is a good choice we can work with, especially if we grab literature quickly for Heroic epic.

Research situation:
Barcelona: Switch it to all food production / commerce for two turns, even working that one food / 2 commercile coast tile
Madrid: Switch from forest/grassland tile to lake tile, it won't affect great lighthouse growth and up science to 100.

Barcelona needs a singular defender eventually for military protection happiness. Also note granaries are double speed production for us. I do agree on getting a setter asap, possibly two, just get a granary, archer or warrior in between.

Military: If we can get a galley to blockade Kyoto, that'd be a major coup. His galley is still in there, but we're more likely to survive than he via the coastal defense bonus.

I understand about getting Metal Casting and not selling it until we are done with Colossus.

Should I whip the Lighthouse to be on the safe side? Or is it ok to just hope we will not lose it in these 4 turns? (I had too many cases of AI beating me by 1 or 2 turns to various key techs/wonders, so I am a bit paranoid.)

EDIT: As for Alphabet, it would work best if we are behind in techs. (As we will be by the time we get there.) AIs tend to prioritize Math and Currency, so we might get those techs faster by going for Alphabet instead. The only danger would be if not enough AIs know these techs when we are ready to buy them, but that's unlikely given the amount of time we've spent researching worker and religious techs.

Also, have we gotten around to building a temple and hiring a priest? If not, I'll do it while we are waiting for Metal Casting.

I don't think we have priesthood, so no temples. As to whipping GLH, please don't. I don't think we need to. I've focused on building GLH very early on and Madrid is a large slow growth city with high production and commerice. We're going to lose a lot more in production and commerce than we're gaining from whipping. We can have GLH in 4 turns while working lake, Gems mine, Plains/forest/hill, corn and glasslands/hill with our Org religion. Just don't delay it any further, and we'll have GLH.

We're more likely ahead in techs than behind right now, and if we can seize great lighthouse and colossus, we can further that advantage. That's why I don't think Alphabet is a good idea.

Also, having checked the save, please be sure to cancel Liq's galley movement orders before you start your turn.

yup as I said ship movement was just to communicate my intentions is all, do with them as you see fit.


As for GLH I agree, just let it finish and should be ok

tack on yet another task needed by cabin boy,

we never roaded the gems by madrid to get it's happy flowing.

Poor cabin boy.. so overworked.

man not sure what's going on with the boards... it was stalling on loading some ads.

double post.

Cheers!
-Liq

I think it's the football playoffs ad. I noticed having it up in two windows slowed my computer to a crawl.

not sure, firefox blocks all that :mischief:

Seems ok now

Cheers!
-Liq

I am sorry for the delay. Here are my turns. I took Drasca's offer to play 15, because a lot of them were just hitting Enter.

125BC (0) - We are currently last in every area, but that will hopefully change soon, as some new cities will be built.

WARNING: Trade screen reveals that Toku already has a third city! HC also has 3 cities and Cat and Elizabeth have 4.

We still don't have Priesthood, temples and priests? After all the effort we've put into getting a hydra started, we need some prophets. Besides, temple will allow Madrid to support an extra happy person. First I do MM suggested by Drasca, then switch research to Priesthood (2), before going back to Metal Casting (6), so total time on Metal Casting will remain the same and we'll be able to build a temple in Madrid, let the city grow, and hire a priest, before starting Forge and get the Metal Casting at the same time it would have been ready without the MM.

Mermaid's luck is redirected towards Kyoto's hill, per Drasca's suggestion.

100BC (1) We find Tokyo. It's just 3 tiles north of Kyoto.

Bad news: Jewdaism spreads to London. Elizabeth and HC might adopt different religions.

Workboat starts fishing. Sharkbait keeps going towards iron mine.

75BC (2) Priesthood -> Metal Casting (6). Eliz converts to Jewdaism. London is size 6, protected by 2 Archers and a Spear, but with few improved tiles. (Just a few mines and farms.) Where are the cottages? Mermaid's Luck unloads its archer on hill NW of Kyoto. Hopefully he'll promote soon.

50BC (3) Japanese C1 archer ignores Eugene and goes onto the gem mine. Barc grew to size 4. It's at happiness limit, so start Settler (10).

IBT: Eugene (fortified on hill near Kyoto) kills an archer.

25BC (4) We get Great Lighthouse. Start Jewish Temple (4). Sharkbait arrives to protect Eugene. Cabin boy completes mine near Barc, so settler will be ready in 7. Since Japan is now attacking hill near Kyoto, we don't need 4 archers on iron. Casey Hackey (most wounded archer) is loaded on Mermaid's Luck to be taken back to protect Barc.

Cat has Alphabet, but will not trade with us because of wrong religion.

1AD (5) Cabin boy goes to road corn for trade.

50AD (6) Casey Hackle is at Barc. Barc doesn't need happiness or Org. Rel. bonus at the moment. Eliz has +1 Open Borders, +1 years of peace and +1 religion. HC has +1 years of peace and -4 religion. So I switch to Buddhism to get HC to Open Borders (and to scout out his lands). We are Spiritual, so we can switch back when needed. HC goes up to Cautious (+1 religion), but doesn't want to Open Borders. Eliz stays Pleased. (no penalty)

100AD (7) Metal Casting -> Writing (3). Then Alphabet.
Madrid Jewish Temple -> Forge (10). When it grows in 5, I'll hire a priest to finally start generating GPPs.

Open Borders with HC. We are now up to #3 in GNP, but still far behind the leader.

125AD (8) nothing new

150AD (9) Cathrene boasts about having catapults! This means she is up Alphabet, Math, Construction, Code of Law and Horseback Riding. (Based on what we can see.) HC boasts about Chariots, so he doesn't have HBR.

Barc Settler -> Settler (8) Settler and Worker board Galley and sail to iron site.

175AD (10) Treasury is down to 0, so research is down to 80%. Alphabet is due in 11.

I will take Drasca's offer and play 5 more turns.

200AD (11) Eliz offers Clams for Corn. We agree. Madrid just grew to Happy Limit, so we finally hire a priest. (For shrines.)

IBT Archer on Osaka's hill kills Jap Archer.

225AD (12) Galley drops off settler, goes back.

IBT Moses was born in London.

250 (13) Seville is founded. Starts library. (for border expansion and research boost) Worker starts mining Iron.

275 (14) Seville is already paying for itself, thanks to the Lighthouse. However, we are still #4 in GNP.

300 (15) Cat is offering Sugar for trade, so she is also up Calendar.

Plans:
Settler is due in 2. I've marked 2 potential locations. One is a pure fishing village. The other grabs Horses, Stone and 5 grasslands (3 need Jungle removal). I suggest setting Horses+Stone and starting cottages, since the worker is already there.

Iron is about to be connected, so once Barc finishes its Barracs it can start training swordsmen. All our cities need libraries and Granaries.

Perhaps Madrid needs to train a Buddist missionary for Barc, or we need to switch back to Jewdaism. (Although I'd really hate the -4 penalty with HC. We need 2 trading partners to have any hope of catching Cat.)

yah keep bud since hc is the religion nut that cat isn't.

We really need another worker lol too bad that means wiping out toku.

as for the corn in south, why not the gems south of madrid instead? we are still not getting the happy from them and barc has corn hooked up already.

well too late now

as for horses stone... one option would be to move it north one to settle on the jungle.. tiles are about the the same but lose the starting plains hill.

Woker time is very $$$ though so a consideration.

we need to steam roll toku sooner rather than later..

barc needs that barracks done before pumping out units..

oh one other thought, Tokyo is an eye sore that impedes on kyoto, just raze it instead of keeping it.

Cheers!
-Liq

*** lurker's request ***
More screenies, please! :cry: :worship: :thanx:

yah keep bud since hc is the religion nut that cat isn't.
oh one other thought, Tokyo is an eye sore that impedes on kyoto, just raze it instead of keeping it.

I disagree with Tokyo. Every city we have = more trade routes and coastal tile working ---> more overall commerce and beakers. We're not after infinite city sprawl, but we more cities is a good thing with GLH and Colossus right now.

Don't worry about GNP and expansion. We'll soon skyrocket once we get more cities up, or conquered. We haven't expanded the conventional way, but due to GLH and Colossus, we're setup to boom economically.

Lizzy converting to judaism... I expected that. Barcelona's jewish, and has been frequently trading with Lizzie. This is not a bad thing, especially if we wish to conquer HC, because he's closer than Lizzie. HC's cities haven't had that much buddhism yet either, so we may convert them too.

For those reason, I also disagree with "needing" trading partners, and "needing" buddhism. We're spiritual. We can switch religions willy nilly. Let's stick with judaism until we need to trade with HC.

We can cultivate Lizzie as a foreign trade partner if we so desire. Foreign relations will tell once they meet each other, but right now they have no clue the other exists.

Cathy also doesn't really care about religion that much. We can still grab open borders from her, and I say we take it and explore her territory. We're in no position to deny her expansion. Let's see what she has.

S.ilver, you're up matey. Also feel free to take 15 if the 10 is mostly hitting end turn.

Objectives:
Primary: Build colossus!
Secondary: More Settlers or Barracks or lighthouse, former preferred so far.

Honestly, we can keep Tokugawa contained until Civil service.

We could use a another city to get the horses, and possibly stone. Or choose somewhere else.

Sorry about not roading Gems. I totally forgot about them. At least we can build temples for happiness where needed.

Diplomatically, I'd like to keep both HC and Lizzy happy, because we'll need all the tech trading partners we can get if we hope to catch up to Cat. So staying in Buddhism as long as possible, or converting HC to Jewdaism. I'd vote for the former, because we don't have any production to spare on missionaries right now.

Since we are able to hold our ground v. Japan for now, perhaps we can train 1 more settler after the current one completes. We'll need catapults to take Kyoto anyway. And I agree with Drasca that Tokyo can more than pay for itself even if it just works the water tiles to avoid stealing from Kyoto.

PS Sorry about lack of screenshots. I didn't have much time last night.

good points about the costal trades... liq is :smoke:

Would love to get that worker from kyoto, once we get iron hooked up shouldn;t be too much of an issue to take him out.

Alas poor cabin boy. :lol:

oh yeah that's so true... we can add mass happys from temples huh lol.

Cheers!
-Liq

Hmm... Will take a look at it tonight. All great points that have been made. Except... Liq should know that I prefer to keep cities rather than raze. It's less productive, in my eyes, to go on a spree of mass destruction. Oh well. Won't be taking Tokyo in my turns...

I'll take a look at the city sites too... Did we have any copper in range for this Colossus? Or is it just a straight up build?

We have enough of an advantage to build colossus w/o copper. Besides, I don't see any nearby, and it'd take longer to settle and hook up copper than to just build.

Take 15 turns Silver. Then N can likely take 15.

Crap, guys, sorry for the slow reply. It's been a hectic weekend for me. It turns out I'm not going to be able to play the turns after all :(. And probably not going to be able to play for the next week or two (exams, ugh).

Sorry again for the late reply on that. Thought I could juggle it. Skip me till furthur notice.

That's ok S.ilver. Good luck on your exams!

Ndthsmdy, you're up! Respond to us whether you can play in the next three days.

Looks like Nd's awol. I'll be able to play this game tomorrow and hopefully have a report by the next day.

Game in Progress. Report (hopefully) this afternoon. Possibly Sunday.

300 AD (0): Looks good. If there's a lull in gameplay, I'll take more than 10.

Madrid: Will finish forge in one turn, then start two archers. We need them, one to blockade the jungle south of Osaka, one to escort our upcoming settler. Then colossus.

Seville swapped to obelisk. The immediate land is crud. Need that cultural expansion sooner rather than later.

Barcelona: Swapped order to barracks (whipped), lighthouse, will whip, then settler

Signed open borders with Cathy. Maybe I can get missionaries to her later.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v241/DrascaGW/RB%20SG/350Troop.jpg

350 (2) Troop movement. I like troop movement. I have a 50% chance to win, which means I'll likely lose the first archer, but I'll win with the second. That's worth pillaging their gems mine. Bo Jangles now has 13 exp.

Wait a minute, we're still in Bhuddism? Judaism. Now.

Cathy: Signed open borders. I want to see her territory, besides, she has OB with HC and could go west that way.

375 (3) Tokyo archer moves southward. I move Sharkbait and now eyes south to blockade, if possible.

400 (4) Snooze.


425 (5) Madrid: Second archer complete. Colossus in 14 turns. Dangerous dan Jr holds off two archers from Osaka via defending the jungle south. I was getting worred about his troop buildup. He still has a warrior, but it is heading west, and the 2nd archer from Madrid should take care of it.


450 (6) Moscow discovered. Also mostly archers/warriors. We have an advantage. Seems only Lizzy has metals so far.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v241/DrascaGW/RB%20SG/Sharkbait.jpg

Sharkbait was hurt in an archer assault from tokyo. He'll promote to medic so he can heal at a decent rate in enemy territory. No-eyes moves to cover him. You need a medic in enemy territory or it'll take dozens of turns to heal anything.

475 (7) Dangerous dan jr catches Tok's warrior in flatlands, and annihilates him by moving southwest.

500 (8) Good news and Bad news. Mermaid's luck destroys Japanese Galley. Hi Ho! Christianity FIDL.

520 (9) Snooze

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v241/DrascaGW/RB%20SG/540tactical.jpg

540 (10) It has been an exciting 10 turns, with few exceptions. Archer and settler en route to mermaid's luck, who is resting off her last sea battle. Tokyo and Kyoto are ripe to attack our archers, so be wary of that. Seville is trading with HC, so will likely gain bhuddism soon. Lizzy is the likely canidate for starting christianity, so if we want her as an ally, we need jewish missionaries to her cities immediately.

Madrid completes colossus in 9 turns. We should be able to grab it without difficulty. We'll likely lose pyramids and parthenon. We'll also pop either a great merchant or a great prophet in the next two turns. Be on the lookout for what techs they may offer. If they're not great, you may want to join them, as this is a small map and it is still fairly early. If we're really lucky, we'll get a great engineer. If that happens, see if you can snatch Pyramids out from underneath everyone else.

Liq, I recommend keeping the fortified archers where they are for a few turns, just until that 'extra' attack-worthy archer decides to fling itself against Sharkbait or not. After those few turns, feel free to roam the forests south of Tokyo. Bo Jangles and Argus Kid should probably stay where they are.

Military front: Might need more archers from barcelona, and a second galley. You decide what barcelona should build. In fact, we can build swordsmen now, so we can mount an offensive agaisnt tokugawa if you feel up to that task.

I've also made a recommendation for a new city site to the southwest, grabbing two clams. Up to you to decide what our next city site should be. There's only good choices possible right now, whether southwest, northeast, or even expanding far east.

Take 15 turns if you want to do so. Zeviz may take 15 as well. Up to you to take 10 or 15. Today, I only have time for 10, and I've had a fairly robust round, so 10 is more than enough for me.

Roster:
Drasca: Just played
Liq: Up matey
Zeviz: Next
Silver: On hold, auto-skip until further notice.
Nthsmdy: Where are you? Do you still want to play this SG?

I am glad this game is still alive. :)

We were in Buddhism to stay allied to HC. He cares about religion much more than our other ally.

If we get a great prophet, which shrine should we construct? Buddhism looks more profitable at the moment, but I am not sure what our long term plans are.

About settlement plans, what about the site with the horses?

eh got it and all... actually let me actually download it before I have to eat my words lol.

yup got it..

give me a few hours to eat sleep raid booze cough syrup.:crazyeye:


Cheers!
-Liq

ok sleep done! got the giant econo pack of nyquil gallon jugs and saw guild wipe to a bugged delvin encounter. Oh and aggonized over rb 11... may that poor game rest in peace.

let me study up on this game again, been too long since it was moving.


not into breaking fortify just to roam dras, I avoid it by my very nature so no fear there.

I'll try and guage starting the push on toku.. if I do, zev will be the one pulling the trigger regardless.

day is free for the first time this week so going to take this one slow.

Cheers!
-Liq

preturn: ok lets see gems are still not hooked up. Check
we really need a friend for cabin boy. Only way that is happening is saying hi to toku.

I see toku has a settler and 2 galleys in tokyo hmm not good.

For the life of me I cannot see the clams in range of the fish + clams space.. might very well be a :smoke: on kipper!

hmm hmmm hmm well sw is out of the question for next town... horses > clam. Thing is, there's no fresh water on stone island so the fish are much more useful than stone for the town itself. That means though we'll never get stone in a meaningful time frame so really it's hard... going to settle on 'fish + clams' that leaves just enough room for a mini town to hook up stone if need be.

I'm going to push war with toku .. that means math next. btw I see nowhere other than a suggestion to go for literature... please explain when techs are started so we don;t need to go hunting 5 mins to find out if the tech being researched is a means or a goal. I see lit as a goal, not as a means to music.



IBT:
toku has an archer going north think to go with that settler...


[1]560 AD
Move no eyes to forest to block the movement. sevill is very open to attack by toku btw.. we need to fix that. a no exp archer due in seville in 4 turns.
Making another galley in barc.

IBT:
Seville begins: Archer
Barcelona begins: Galley
Harkuf (Great Merchant) born in Madrid BOO

No eyes takes heat from both directions!!!!!!!!
Archer defeats (2.04/3): Japanese Archer
Archer defeats (0.12/3): Japanese Archer

wow what a hero, not bad for a blind man! 3 xp now!!

HC closes borders. uh oh.

[2]580 AD
I promote no eyes to combat one, he goes from .1 health to 1.6 whew sharkbait moves to his neck of the woods to speed healing.

great merchant points towards code of laws... hmm. super speccing said GP is worth 6 base gold 1 food.. since we WILL get a shrine in madrid we will be wise to concentrate on commerce there. 10% of our GNP on slider is a whopping 4 gold. a super specc raw alone is worth a going from 70 to 85% research and there's no pressing need for code of laws this moment. let me walk around a bit and think this out.

Simply going from 70% research to 80% nets us code in 12 but if I go 90% lit goes from 2 turns to 1 and code would be 11.. super spec it is...
how sweet this is ..


90% research with no deficit! lit in one.

start to loot those remaining roads near toku with jangles and the kid

maiden picks up the settler and heads to fish and clams?(horses).

since we are gaining 1 food a turn in madrid I take off one of the woods and place an eng spec.

IBT:
Tech learned: Literature yay
Toku adopts organized.. pretty sad considering he only is confused in tokyo.

[3]600 AD
Research begun: Mathematics 7 turns
Toku REALLY wants to get that archer to tokyo. That tells my instincts to build up sevil and clams sooner rather than later.

IBT:
Cathy builds pyramids.

[3]620 AD
making sure maiden stays 3 + tiles away from tokyo... if toku was smart, he'd be blocking us whith those two galleys.
hmm barcelona grows in 2 turns. the whip is hungry

IBT:
Seville finishes: Archer

[4]640 AD
mermaid lands settler + escprt. fish and clams?(horses) city will be founded next turn.

Seville starts: Fishing Boat in 4 turns

IBT:
nothing

[5]660 AD
one of the galleys is gone and it took two archers with it... mermaid is looking for it. I place drake to escort cabin boy...

Cordoba founded
Cordoba begins: Obelisk in 10.. need to hook up those fish.
Whip jud temple in barcelona, we can use the happy and forge is too $$$

have to back down to 80% research
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/liquidated/rb10cordoba780ad.jpg

IBT:
Capac declares war on US and toku has two archers heading towards cabin boy and seville..
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/liquidated/rb10hcattack780ad.jpg

[6]680 AD
Capac has 2 galleys with 4 warriors enroute to madrid.. I can get an archer there np and immediately whip an axe... I KNOW the whip hurts but this is an emergency, last thing we need is to lose our iron from toku without a real melee unit. An axe will eat those quiches up

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/liquidated/rb10tokushipping780ad.jpg
mermaid ends turn next to the toku galley I get cabin boy moving in the opposite direction.

IBT:
toku ship keeps archers onboard and moves 2 spaces north
Capac lands the 4 Quiches on the gem hill south of madrid..
Madrid finishes: Axeman
Barcelona finishes: Galley

[7]700 AD
... mermaid has a 50 50 chance to win and take out not only the galley, but those 2 archers as well.............
Galley defeats (1.20/2): Japanese Galley
and wins!!!!!!!! WHEW. (yeah I kept that red on purpose =p) sometimes is better to be lucky than good.

Capac lands the 4 Quiches on the gem hill south of madrid..
Axeman promoted: Combat I
Axeman defeats (3.20/5): Incan Quechua

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/liquidated/rb10hcdying780ad.jpg

McCruthers Bloodborne the Axeman now has 5/5 exp.. if capac stalls to pillage he's toast.
Dangerous dan is in madrid to cover, glad I placed him half way. paranoid liq proves once again paranoia is GOOD.

TheYar'inestVesselTharBe spots a capac galley and RUNS. he's prolly dead.

cabin boy heads back to the rice.. let me breathe a little and get some cough syrup.

new galley is dubbed Merman's Fury. sending him to the south.

let me get more cough syrup.

IBT:
Madrid grows: 6
Madrid finishes: The Colossus
at madrid
Axeman defeats (3.20/5): Incan Quechua
north of kyoto
Archer defeats (2.10/3): Japanese Archer

[8]720 AD
Collosus is built!!!!!!! yay!!! we need happys in madrid like BAD so hindu temple in 3.
Homer is born in moscow. that was a fast great person for cathy.

our gems got pillaged and only one quiche attacked us.. free exp for Bloodborne who promotes to shock

toku REALLY hates the line up we have going he keeps sending archers to their doom. I need to get kyoto back in scout range but he won;t let me lol. promote jangles to medic.. not too much choice.

the pillaging of the gems is not that bad in that cabin boy needs to come back just to road the effing hill.

wow our little fishing boat lived!

one quiche left and he's bottled up.

promote mermaid to medic and scoots to frendly water to heal. big fun next turn!!!

Tech learned: Mathematics
Barcelona finishes: Swordsman
Seville finishes: Work Boat
Archer defeats (2.10/3): Japanese Archer ya ANOTHER suicide archer... WTF indeed.

[9]740 AD
Research begun: Calendar 13 turns
Barcelona begins: Granary
Axeman defeats (3.55/5): Incan Quechua cleanup in asile 4.. all of capac's toads are dead.
Swordsman promoted: City Raider I

Cathy is just running away with tech. it's not even close..
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/liquidated/rb-10tech780ad.jpg
we need to bottle up toku NOW and double our workers.

IBT:
nada



[10]760 AD
Sevilles fish are hooked up.


IBT:
Lizz comes to ask to trade monarchy and 140 gold (all she has) for metal casting. I accept it, we need the cash and cathy is the issue here.

[11]780 AD

ending here. TOKU HAS ANOTHER suicide archer headed into our wall of archer. this is insane.. he's exping us.
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/liquidated/rb10tokublockcade.jpg

ok well fought off a scare built another galley and exped off quite a few toku archers... he sent ANOTHER suicide archer north just to repeat. He really wants to get those to tokyo, don;t let him. right now if we take tokyo we get a bonus worker from that settler... we need those workers.

queued up a granery in barcelona to speed up whipping..

we have hered now as an option so we can be a bit more casual on whipping.. I'm a quarter into calendar but if you wish change it to like construction... right now tokyo is only 20 % defense... we need to gank it now to grab that setler. mermaid is all healed up and ready to move south to pick up sword.
right now he only has two archers in tokyo.. getting the swords over to him

Cathy is the enemy.

will edit in screens in a bit, rather get the save out now. if you are buring to know how bad cathy is, load up the game and look... we need to finish off toku now.



opps looks like I took 11 turns will correct numbering
Cheers!

don;t let toku get archers to tokyo!

-Liq

Good job containing Japan and responding to that surprize invasion. I wonder how many of HC's troops we'll have to kill before he agrees to peace.

That's a lot of experience on our archers. :)


...
Capac declares war on US
...

I am surprized it took him this long after we've switched back to Jewdaism. This is why I wanted to stay in Buddhism. I know he isn't the biggest threat militarily, but we now have 3 enemies out of 4 AIs. Although that's just more workers for us to enslave. :satan:

btw my apologies for the lack of screens, I forgot to turn on fraps til midway through the turnset.

btw honestly toku is freaking insane.. he is sending lone combat one archers out to us as fast as he can make them. just retarded seeing as both stacks have healers and are fortified on strong terrain.

just leave those 4 archers there and he'll stall himself. need at least one cat to knock defenses down, no point suiciding them if we have a few swords.

me too regarding bud, but seems he's without metal.. might want to check trade.

Cheers!
-Liq

Please welcome Veovim and Jameson. You have 24 hours to report 'got it' and whether you're able to play this round, and 72 hours to play and report.

Drasca
Liquidated - Played
Zeviz - Up
Veovim - On deck

Alternate:
Jameson - I'm not sure you replied to my request for new players, so I'm putting you down as an alternate for now.

780AD (1) We are 4th in almost every area, ahead only of Toku. This war has caused both of our civs to stagnate so much that we don't even have any trading materials to trade with the tech leaders. We don't even have a library at our capital! So we have to end this war one way or another. We have to make peace by the end of next player's turnset. This means that we have to quickly build up military, take as many cities as we can, and accept peace taking all of Toku's techs (he currently is willing to give us Calendar).

I change Calendar research to Construction. We need it for catapults and might be able to sell it to Liz if we are lucky. Don't research the techs that all AIs have already. Our only hope of catching up technologically is to research techs that can be traded away. I'd research Drama, but it's worth too little to get any useful trades out of it.

Eugene fortifies near Tokyo, while Sharkbait goes to forest NE of Kyoto to check up on the city. The worker is still there.

I revolt to Hireditary Rule. (We are spiritual, there is no extra cost and Barc is about to grow into unhappiness.)

I speed up Barc's growth by firing priest. It will be a settler factory when it grows, so extra hummers aren't needed at the moment.

We no longer need a priest in Madrid, because even if we get a prophet, it'll be too late to start a shrine. So I replace him with an Engineer for now and will fire him in 2 turns to speed up growth. Madrid has huge happiness reserve from MP and we need to work those water squares. The reason I am going to keep Engineer on for 2 turns is to finish the swordsman in 4. Mermaid's Fury will get to Madrid in 3 and will be able to pick up both of our swordsmen for delivery to Tokyo.

The other Galley will be used to transport worker to connect the horses when the pasture is done. Scouting workboat sees that Russia is still defended by Archers. If we had a half dozen swords and a few cats, we could capture all of their nicely developed and cottaged lands.

Finally, I bring research up to 100% at -14gpt to take Construction down from 11 to 8. Thanks to the recent tech deal, we have enough cash to sustain this research rate for over 10 turns.

IBT: Eugene kills Japanese Archer.

800AD (2) Barc Granary - Library(9) this will be interrupted by a couple of settlers.

Sharkbait goes to heal Eugene.

820AD (3) Jewdaism spreads to HC's city Ollanta... it is protected by 3 archers and a Quecha and has a worker nearby. However, it is too far away to grab at the moment.

Tokyo now has 3 archers and a Galley. I am afraid a settler-archer pair is about to set sail.

Worker boards Mermaid's luck and sails towards Cordoba.

IBT: Toku sends another archer out of Kyoto. Also, an archer leaves Tokyo.

840AD (4) Madrid Swordsman -> Library (6) If we don't improve our research rate, we are going to be on the Spearman side of the Spearman v. Tank battles.

Bo Jangles comes down from his hill to help Eugene and Sharkbait in their forest.

Scouting workboat finds out that Moscow is protected by 4 Archers and a Warrior. Rostov has 3 archers. If only we had more swordsmen...

Our two swordsmen board Mermaid's fury for a trip to Tokyo.

860AD (5) Cordoba Obelisk -> Granary (10). Seville Granary -> Library (6) (Somebody interrupted that Library half way.)

St. Pete is protected by 3 archers, but 2 of them have Garrison promotions. There is also 1 archer outside city guarding pasture.

Sharkbait goes up to a hill, because the second Japanese archer is now in the forest between Kyoto and our archers.

IBT: Kidd kills Japanese archer, but Sharkbait loses.

880AD (6) Bo Jangles avenges Sharkbait. Mermaid's Luck goes south to scout/move towards the capital.

IBT An archer comes out of Osaka and another one out of Kyoto.

Russia founded Yekaterinburg 2 tiles north of Kordoba! The city is in danger of flipping, because Cat is Creative.

900AD (7) Bo Jangles goes to cover Kidd on the hill. Swordsmen are unloaded near Kyoto and the ship moves to pick up Cabin Boy. (No point in building pasture for the Russians.)

IBT Eugene kills Japanese archer.

920AD (8) Swordsman attacks Tokyo and loses at 67%. Another swordsman attacks Tokyo and wins. Bo Jangles finishes the job and we have our second worker! The worker boards Mermaid's Fury and begins sailing home. Eugene promotes to Medic and goes back to Tokyo to heal. (Since our other Medic got killed.)

Cabin boy goes to chop down forest on hill near Cordoba. (At least Russians will not get it.)

Bloodborne kills Japanese archer near Osaka.

940AD (9) We learn Construction. Unfortunately, the only trade Liz is willing to make is Calendar for Construction + 60$. No way. We can get Calendar from Toku for free. Research is started on Machinery (15, but would drop to 25 without losing money). The cash from capture of Tokyo is the only thing keeping our economy afloat. Machinery will be a good trading material and will get us closer to macemen. (It's only a matter of time until AIs learn Feudalism and start defending with Longbows.)

IBT: Cat demands conversion to Confuscianism. (We have it in Tokyo.) We refuse, since we never cave in to demands of inferior races.
Toku offers Calendar for peace. Not yet. We need to capture Kyoto first.

960AD (10) Madrid Library -> Cat (4), Barc Library -> Cat (5)
Bo Jangles moves out into the forest to fight Japanese archer there.

The turn numbers are veird, so I'll play 2 more turns to even it out.

IBT: Cat demands we cancel all deals with England. We refuse, but this isn't looking good. Japanese archer steps on plains near Tokyo.

980AD (11) I start a Granary in Tokyo. The city will have no good tiles to work and will keep revolting until we capture Kyoto.

Our swordsman kill Japanese archer. Bo Jangles approacher Kyoto and sees 4 archers there.

I drop research down to 80%, so we are now at -11gpt, instead of -24gpt. Although research time on Machinery goes up from 10 to 12 turns. If we capture Kyoto within the next 11 turns, we can bump this back up.

IBT HC offers 240$ for peace and I accept. Nice! This was a very profitable war. Getting Gems pillaged was bad, but 240$ more than covers that cost. :) And HC is even willing to trade techs with us. (Although we have nothing that he wants.)
I sign OB with him, so we get extra trade route income and a chance to scout out his land.

1000AD (12) Seville Library -> Barracks (5) This is our top production city. It gets almost no growth in current configuration (working all forests), but it's at the happiness limit right now. NOTE: Let it grow to next size once Gems are connected.

Cordoba Granary -> Library(23) (Forest chop got +100% for Granary by Expansive leader bonus, so 23 production carried over into library. That's why I kept building library, Granary ended up costing us very little due to strengthened chop.)

Worker starts mining gems. Another worker boards Mermaid's Luck.

Bo Jungles and the swordsman go back towards Tokyo.

Research is back up to 100% for about 15 turns. That should be enough time to capture Kyoto. :)

Notes:

1) We need to train a missionary for Cordoba if we want it to have a chance to resist being flipped. (There is not much hope of holding on to the horses.)

2) When the Gems are mined, don't forget to road them. :)

3) After mining Gems, worker should probably build a road through dyes towards Barc. Until that road is complete, one Galley will have to work as a transport along northern coast and another along southern coast.

4) When Barc grows into unhappiness, it can be whipped for a Forge. Don't forget to let the forge build for a turn before whipping it.

5) Seville is configured for no growth. When Gems are connected, let it grow to next size and then return it back.

6) After capturing Kyoto, make peace with Toku for as many techs as he will give us. We can finish him off 10 turns later and an extra tech or 2 would be really good right now.

7) Work Boat is prepairing to net fish when Cordoba's borders expand.

Have fun. :)

PS I just noticed that HC can buy our second fish for 2gpt. Please make this deal, because such deals are a great way to strengthen relations and we need all the friends we can get to catch Cat.

Hi,

I did in fact respond to the request for new players, so please assume I'm ready, willing, and available to play :).

Veovim, go get'em!

Zeviz--Played
Veovim--UP
Jamesom--On deck
Drasca
Liq

well I'm partial letting toku live with osaka as his only town til he builds another worker.

as for HC war, that was a nice peace agreement.:D

Cordoba needs culture like now. We at least have extra shipping to get towns converted.

Nice turns Z

Cheers!
-Liq

Thanks for letting me join!

I've got it, and I'll post some thoughts once I've had a chance to collect them.

I want to make sure that I'm on the same page as everyone, so I thought I'd lay out a basic plan with a few questions. I'll play tomorrow night.

Builds - I'll have Madrid complete the cats, then build a sword to send to Kyoto. After that, I'll build the missionary for Cordoba (Jewish, I assume?). (Or do you guys think that the cultural threat warrants building the missionary first?)

I'm not so sure what to do about Barc because I tend not to use the whip much. It will grow into unhappiness next turn, so should I immediately change it to a forge, and whip next turn? Or would when to whip in this case depend on how many pop points will be sacrificed? If so, what's the critical point to check for? After that, I'll let the cat finish, and probably build another sword, depending on how things look at Kyoto.

Troops around Tokyo - Should I wait for the sword to be fully healed to send Bo Jangles back to Kyoto (i.e. send them together), or send him right away? The iron tile is suspiciously not visible, so I hope that Toku hasn't tried to reconnect it. Also, there's a marker for a city very close to Kyoto. If I get a chance to take Kyoto, do we want to keep it or not?

Research - Any opinions on what to research after machinery? Is the plan to get to Guilds as soon as possible (in other words, start Feudalism)? Otherwise, I'd probably choose from some peaceful options like currency, compass, and code of laws. Only compass isn't known by any AIs, so we might want to go for that.

Overall strategy: Take Tokyo, but leave Osaka to Japan. That leaves Tokugawa crippled, and we have his best capital and only source of Iron, and we can also sue for peace and get his calender and possibly HBR.

If we are to conquer Cathy, we'd best do it immediately BEFORE she gets feudalism and upgrades her archers en masse to longbows. She also only currently has one meager archer defender at her new outpost near our territory. She's overextended, and she'll fortify if we let her, but that tiny morsel should bit bitten off before it grows too moldy to gobble. Don't let her dig her claws into our turf.

Focus on Military production! Need at least two more swords. Our newest city has an obelisk, and won't flip anytime soon. Cathy has to go through at least two cultural expansions to do that.

Barcelona: Let it grow. We have hereditary rule, and archers only take a few turns to make. Make archers for a happiness garrison until we hit the unhealthiness limit.

Also, ASAP, start to build the great library. Pick a city, start building.

yeah leave osaka. That gives us a chance to extort techs for peace and farm osaka out to build another worker for us. actually if we can lull a worker to come out and keep a 2 tile unit close by... could keep toku as a worker farm for a while.:satan:

That Z got that settler in tokyo before it flew the coop was major. or should I say, flew the coup..:D

3 workers will own.

Agree with attacking cathy.. she'll run away with the game if no one hems her in.

cathy's town north of cordoba is worth keeping, that was my original stone town suggestion and coexists with cordoba well enough.



oh and welcome aboard V and J:)

Cheers!
-Liq

Veovim and Jameson, welcome. :)

The reason I've included Novgorod's defenders in my screenshot is to show that most of Catty's core cities would be easier to take than Kyoto. The more I think about it, the more I am convinced that we should attack her ASAP, perhaps even without taking Kyoto first. We might only have a few turns until she gets Feudalism. What does everybody else think?

Either way, you probably have to train swordsmen in all 3 of our production cities. Great Library would be nice, but I am not sure if we have time to get it and we don't have production capacity to build it AND train enough troops to conquer Russia before Feudalism.

I'd like to whip a Forge, because that would allow us to hire an engineer. We need more than 2 production cities if we want to fight aggressively and we already have 2 fishing villages. (Tokyo and Cordoba) However, if everybody else thinks it's a bad idea, don't do it.

I'm all for bold and decisive action, and hopefully striking before longbows.
The Japanses don't look too dangerous in the latest turns anyway.

I don't think we can tear dowm the Russians and erect a Great Library at the same time.

You're right. Great library is pipe dream. Let's just steal it off them. To conquest!

I'm on turn 7, and we just got a great engineer. Do you guys want the parthenon, or the great library?

This must be a record for me in terms of the speed of having to eat my words :lol: :rotfl:

Much prefer the Library !

That's amazing luck! There was only about 15% chance of Engineer, if I remember correctly. Definitely build the library in the capital. That will go a long way towards solving our research problems. (In addition to direct benefit to research, all the GPPs from the 2 scientists and the library itself will guarantee several great scientists, meaing Academies in all our top science cities.)

yup, we need all the help we can get in terms of research and well the 2 scientist specs will offset the bonus parth alone would give.

Go GL imo.

Cheers!
-Liq

Sorry this took so long, and thanks for putting up with all my questions.

1000 AD (0) - I make the trade suggested with Capac.

1010 AD (1) - Toku moves his archer up to attack Tokyo.
The sword in Tokyo is set to heal (2 turns).

1020 AD (2) - No-eyes Eugene kills Toku's archer (no damage taken).
Madrid finishes catapult, starts sword (3 turns).
Judaism spreads to Canterbury (north end of Liz's home island).

1030 AD (3) - Barcelona finishes catapult, starts sword (4 turns).
Toku moves an archer out of both Osaka and Kyoto.
The sword in Tokyo is fully healed, so I'll start moving him down.
Per instructions, the Yar'inest Vessel builds fishing boats at Cordoba.

1040 AD (4) - Madrid finishes its sword, and I figure we can always use another one (3 turns).
I attack the archer Toku's moving towards Madrid with Dangerous Dan Jr., and he loses at 79% odds. Blech.
McCruthers Bloodborne finishes the job (no damage).
Our worker begins roading the gems.

1050 AD (5) - Seville finishes its library, starts a sword (3 turns).
Cabin boy arrives at Barc.

1060 AD (6) - Toku moves a catapult out of Kyoto along with an archer.
Our Gems are connected, and I reconfigure Seville for growth (2 turns).
Cabin boy begins roading between Madrid and Barc.

1070 AD (7) - Madrid finishes its sword, begins training a replacement archer for Dangerous Dan (2 turns).
Barc finishes its sword, begins training an archer for MP (3 turns).
Imhotep (Great Engineer) is born in Madrid.
Forget that archer, Madrid rushes the Great library!
I withdraw Bo Jangles and the swordsman he's guarding into Kyoto to guard against Toku taking the city on luck.

1080 AD (8) - Toku attacks Tokyo. No-Eyes Eugene kills the catapult, Bo Jangles kills the archer.
Machinery comes in, and we enter the classical age. Feudalism is started (9 turns).
Madrid builds the Great Library, starts that archer again (1 turn).
http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/7697/rb10gl2ak.th.jpg (http://img135.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rb10gl2ak.jpg)
Tokyo revolts, so even the troops that weren't damaged in the last attack are hurt now. I guess I couldn't have all good luck.
Seville grows, so I put it back into high production mode.

1090 AD (9) - Madrid finishes archer, begins Sword (2 turns).
Seville finishes Sword, begins Forge (9 turns).
Hinduism spreads in Seville, Judaism in Cordoba.

1100 AD (10) - Barc finishes its archer, and starts another one (3 turns) because it'll grow soon.
An attack force has arrived at Kyoto. I doubt it's enough as is, but once we get that sword in Tokyo back, and an archer with him, we might be good. Here's how the situation looks right now:
http://img438.imageshack.us/img438/1586/rb101100kyoto6wc.th.jpg (http://img438.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rb101100kyoto6wc.jpg)

I wasn't quite sure what to do about research, so I kept pushing towards Guilds (and Conquistadores). That's easily vetoable if someone feels that there's a more pressing tech to go for.

As a general notice, the swordsman built in Seville is still there, and should probably be picked up sometime soon.
It might be a good idea to change it back to growth mode, and build a couple mp there to get it bigger.

Watch the finances if we can't take Kyoto right away (-31 gpt with 91 left).

Good job building up our military. Looks like we are about to finish with Toku and move to bigger targets. :)

Are we able to sell Machinery for some useful techs?

Got it, but as I'm recovering from a fever and discussion is always good, I may wait until tomorrow to play.

Are we able to sell Machinery for some useful techs?
Huyana Capac will give us:
1) Code of Laws, Calendar, and 50 gold for Machinery, or
2) Code of Laws and Currency for Machinery and 40 gold.
I haven't checked what we could get along with Horse Archery, but that's probably an option too. We could extort archery from Tokugawa after taking Kyoto, though.

Waiting a day for discussion is always good.

Be careful about making 'allies'. You may make them too powerful for you to conquer later. Don't be haphazard about tech trades. You do not want to advance them towards critical techs, and machinery is a critical tech.

That it is, but Calendar gives us access to 2 happy resources ( and the concommittant extra commerce at Madrid), and we will want courts for an FP too.

On the other hand, it negates the lead we have towards getting maces, but I doubt we can hold that before taking on Huayna anyway. I am however not all that concerned about his gaining the ability to build windmills, or is there something else I'm missing ?

I guess the danger that HC will sell machinery to his buddy Cat might be too great. On the other hand, Cat still doesn't have metal, so even Beurocracy isn't going to do her much good.

Even if it gets our opponents closer to good weapons, we can't afford to not sell machinery to everybody, because getting 4 free techs would go a long way towards catching up technologically. We'll be able to get HBR and Calendar from Toku. (If he refuses to give up both, just get HBR and sell it to Liz.) I'd recommend buying CoL (to start research on Beurocracy), Currency (self-explanantory) and whatever else they offer. However, it might be better to make the deals after getting Calendar from Toku, because Compass (or is it optics?) might also become available for sale.

Just remember to also sell to Cat anything you sell to HC, because they are good friends and he'll resell to her anything you give him.

Please welcome S.ilver back from exams

Updated Roster:

Veovim: Played
Jameson: Up
Drasca: On deck
Liquidated:
Zeviz:
S.iver:

Personally, I think we can get away without the calender happiness. Usually the problem with selling machinery is Xbowmen, which negate our swordsmen attack ability. However, since they don't have Iron--be sure to check if they do or do not before selling--it might be OK to trade machinery away.

Thanks for pointing that out - I knew I was missing something. Unfortunately, I just got done playing but fortunately, Cathy doesn't have iron :).

Inherited turn:

Look at the trades first; it emerges that we do not in fact have anything to sell to Cathy, so Huayna might end up with Machinery anyway. So there's no reason not to sell Machinery and 40gp for CoL and Currency.

Next, the cities.I don't know what Madrid's set up for exactly, but working the gems hill seems much preferable to having an extra specialist. I fire the engineer ( leave the priest for the off-chance that we pop a prophet for the shrine) and work the hills instead for no loss in shields and 1 extra food, 6 extra commerce.
Only other change is Seville, which has a spare happy face and thus is put on a growth diet again. Also work the water there instead of the plains, in all delaying the forge by two turns but gaining a turn on Feudalism.

1110 AD (1) Madrid completes sword, starts galley. If we want to strike at Catherine, we'll need 2-3 more of these to ferry what troops we have across. Begin bombardment of Kyoto.

1120 AD (2) Defenses in Kyoto down to 16%.

1130 AD (3) YES !! Toku chose to strengthen his city defenses with... a settler !
After bombardment brings down the defenses to 4%, our swords attack:

http://img475.imageshack.us/img475/4453/rb10fallkyoto7eo.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Ironically, against the three city garrison 1 archers, only our city raider II sword with the best odds dies :rolleyes:.
We now make peace with Toku for Calendar and Horseback Riding.

1140 AD (4) I did spot Barcelona's need for a stop to growth on the first turn, but forgot all about it and it's got an unhappy citizen now. I stop one worker clearing jungle there, will go and get the dyes online.

Also send CoL and HBR to Vicky for Theology.

Madrid starts a Crossbow after the galley completes; we'll need some to cover our swords.

1150 AD (5) Feudalism comes in, go for Civil Service next. No guilds, since Conquistadores require horses and we don't have any online just yet. To be honest, when I made the choice, I looked all over the map and missed the ones at Córdoba, but it's going to take some effort to hook them up now).

I also revolt to Serfdom, since the extra worker production speed will come in quite handy.

1160 AD (6) Nothing, till the interturn, when Cathy declares war on us again !

Well, this makes matters easier, but I'm regretting not switching to theocracy along with the switch to Serfdom now and we can't for another 4 turns.

1170 AD (7) Empty galley shows up near Seville. Kyoto finally comes out of resistance, start a monastery for the border expansion.

1180 AD (8) Dyes come online, Cathy wrecks our fishing boats. Seville will starve.

1190 AD (9) Seville completes its forge, starts a galley. Barcelona set to axeman (mace to be) interrrupting its forge construction. Madrid completes crossbow, starts another one.

1200 AD (10) I finally remember to MM Madrid to work the dyes instead of ocean ( strange that that wasn't autopicked).
Workers in train to hook up the third instance so we could set up a trade with Huayna too, he's got crabs available. For now we need happy help more, so trade our extra dyes to Liz for wines.

No offensive action on the part of Catherine, but there is a bit of bad news with regard to our invasion plans:

http://img475.imageshack.us/img475/6900/rb10badnews4yr.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Truth be told though, we were always too thin on the ground as to troops to mount a credible invasion of Mother Russia earlier. I think it can still be done, it will just require more boats and more cats... while allowing the Inca to run away with the game.

Attached save:

uh in general could you mention minor bits like

'1160 AD cathy declares war on us!':D

Had to go into the save to figure out what was going on.

Anyway we have 4 workers now YAY! need to secure yaksburg and send at least one worker full time to the north once that happens.

Lots and lots of work to be done and so few workers before toku donated to our cause, serfdom is a great civic for us.

Also, I would suggest taking mr. cooke from kyoto and setting him up next to osaka area to keep toku honest.

well great that we have 4 workers now though, even our capitol needs lots of work still. Madrid is a powerhouse city location btw.

Cheers!
-Liq

1160 AD (6) Nothing, till the interturn, when Cathy declares war on us again !

:lol: Heh, maybe you saw "nothing" and then just skipped to the next line ;)

It did merit an extra exclamation mark or two, yeah :D.

By the way, our troops are still being organized as if we're really going to take it to the heinous ..... instead of doing nothing. Swords and Cats at Kyoto, extra troops ready to be ferried there in anticipation of the channel crossing.

oh yeah or BIG RED text..

hehe my bad, I'm so used to the luv muff make em guess who declared war we've been trading back and forth in order to shock and amuse.

was meant in good humor regardless, good thing too since Liq clearly cannot read hahahaha


BTW I read the line but I took it as a sort of "nothing going on until cathy attacks us in the future"

that's what liq gets from trying to think when the sun is up lol

Cheers!
-Liq

We should not allow Inca To run away. Take Incan cities while they still have archers and quechas.

Oh wait... my turn. I can do that.

well for the non-americans, today is superbowl sunday and unlike oh say europe, americans generally need an excuse to get drunk :)

Today is that excuse!:D

Consider sunday the 5th to be a skip day.:lol:

Cheers!
-Liq

We don't have a smiley that depicts "goofed up on cough syrup". The next best thing is this one: :smoke:

:lol:

I am so sad. After tonight, no more meaningful NFL games until next September! :eek:

My god. I'll be 37 by then. :crazyeye:


- Sirian

1200-1300, the rule Drasca the tyrannical, the draconian, full of great warmongering, great big projects and great big whips. :crack:

1200 (0) Goals for this turnset: Prepare us for WAR! Gear our economy towards war effort, grab war techs, hookup horses and strategic resources.

We don't need Serfdom, we need the WHIP! Gee, when did we get Feudalism? HC still doesn't have it. First turn that's mine, I'm swapping to serious war civics. Slavery, Vassalage, Theocracy, for whip and xp power.

I'm afraid lizzy is goign to be the runaway in this game, not Cathy or HC. She's out there alone and unmolested. The only reason she is behind is few tech trades, and her economic power will grow to the point where she won't need to. We'll need to chop her down later down the line before she gets too powerful... after crippling everyone else. Having said that, I might leave HC alone after all.

We will not be able to conquer everyone immediately. Our grand empire strategy should be to cripple and curb, and move onto the next target.

Foreign relations:

Cancel all active trade deals that I can. Oh my god. Elizabeth has IVORY, and no construction. She offers Ivory for merely corn and gems. Goody goody good! WE HAVE ELEPHANTS! Swords do squat against longbowmen, but elephants have a chance... and they'll completely run over any Incan defenses.

Hmm, we need health bonuses.

Inca: Demand crabs. He acquiesces. We have ... I won't say it.

Lizzy: Ask clams for a friend, she also gives us health freely.

Consider canceling our Ivory deal with elizabeth once we have horses.

Domenstic front:

Tokyo: Lighthouse 30, Growth 1

Working ocean tile without a lighthouse? That's complete :smoke: Swap to lighthouse-->Granary

Kyoto: Monastary, 8/60 production. Max production and whip next turn. Growth 24.

Madrid: Jumbos 6, Growth 1
We have far too much happiness in here and mostly a food surplus. Time to grow. No specialists, we have 12 GPP already, we don't need another. Food priority time.

Barcelona: Jumbos 7

Switched off Specialists completely. Growth in 2 turns. Only one city matters for GPP production, and when GP's are born, the GPP required is raised for all cities.

Cordoba: Continue lighthouse 5, max production for whip next turn. Growth Stagnant.

Seville: Has the highest production of all our cities, and a barracks already. You know what that means? Heroic Epic.
Galley(2, in time for civic +4xp switch)-->Workboat(2)-->Heroic epic(13)

Growth, Starvation

Military movement:

Swords and catapults moved onto galleys at Kyoto

Galleys: Heading toward HC's cuzco. After moving some, I decide I need to spare one galley to transporting Kyoto's worker to hook up our Horses outside Cordoba.

Tech: Civil Service (5)-->Guilds (14), and conquistadors.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v241/DrascaGW/RB%20SG/1210Staging.jpg (http://photobucket.com)

1210 (1): Drasca's great Draconian revolution has begun! You serfs no longer have any rights. Slaves, and work for me! You, city governers, you are now my feudal lords. Swear oaths of fealty to only me, and I shall grant thee lands and titles if you shall fight for me with your men. Odd, Seville is Hindu, not Jewish. Hinduism shall be our national creed! We need that xp on the galley, and we can switch back later in 5.

To commemorate my predecessor, I christen the galley with a worker heading toward Cordoba: St Jameson's Fire.

Now emptied of her catapults, Mermaid's luck will reach madrid just as the first line of Elephants will roll out. Merman's fury shall continue to ferry units to our staging point.

Cordoba: Lighthouse Whipped as promised.

Kyoto: Monastery whipped. We need the cultural expansion for access to corn and iron

Worker near Kyoto, ordered to stop working on plantation, and begin mining. We have plenty of happiness, we need production, and we could use that forest for the health bonus. Building a plantation would negate 1 health and only get us 2 food for that tile. Uh uh. We should not forest chop at all near Tokyo or kyoto, we need the health and production.

1220 (2)

St Jame's fire Docks in Cordoba, worker and xbowmen unload and head north... suspiciously able to build pasture in one turn.

Seville: Galley christened Titan's rage, promotes, and defeats cathy's pirate wannabe. 8 xp to play with now. Workboat in 2.

Madrid: Cabin boy heads west

Kyoto: I want to start a barracks, but granary only takes 3 here. Granary 3 then barracks.

1230 (3) Not good. We got lazy on the missionary front, Elizabeth converts to Confucianism. I'm also regretting switching to hinduism, we being in judaism was probably the only thing keeping Lizzy jewish.

Cordoba: MM'ed for growth. Elephants 9, growth 2.

1240 (4) Horses hooked up. Cathy switches to vassalage.

Seville: Lighthouse 4. Still much growing for all our cities to do.

1250: (5)

Foreign: Demand Compass out of HC. He refuses. Time for war.

Merman's fury reaches Madrid's shores in luck's stead.

1260 (6): Swap back to judaism so barcelona's elephants can have the xp bonus. We'll have a GPP in Madrid next turn. I'm one short food here from pop, so I'll let it grow while maxing production for overflow next turn. Then an aqueduct may be whipped.

1270 (7): Huh, no GPP after all, exactly one short. Cathy completes Hanging Gardens. Catapult defenses down to 24%. Swordsmen have 2/3's chance of victory. I'll take it... and Cuzco, CAPITAL OF HC, TAKEN!. 119 gp pillaged, forge lighthouse and courthouse survive.

The stack outside Cuzco has 2 wounded swords, Mcuther's axe, and 2 catapults. is promoted to medic, and swordsmen allowed to heal. Axeman inside Cuzco.

1280 (8) Dial up Cathy, she offers to pay us 30gp for a peace treaty. Considering her Caravel is within range to pillage our fishing boats and we're not in a position to fight her, I greedily accept.

Great Merchant, I'm sad to say. We need cash immediately, and extra food isn't too shabby, so I join him. All he offers is paper. If only I MM'ed for a GPP earlier and gotten a GE... oh well.

Seville: Starts on Courthouse. We need it badly.

1290 (9) More troop movements. Swords outside Cuzco loaded to Mermaid's luck and transported westward. They'll land next turn.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v241/DrascaGW/RB%20SG/1300tactical.jpg (http://photobucket.com)

1300 (10) The last orders of my reign shall be taken here.

Barcelona, having waited for 40+/100 production, whips aqueduct for 2 pop @ 30 production per pop each. Happiness problem also temporarily quelled. We have a major food surplus here, and I intend to use it.

Madrid: Fresh 8xp xbowman travels south and loads onto Merman's fury, then the Fury heads southeast toward HC territory with xbowman and jumbo inside.

Next round: BLOOD! by Liq.

Liq, I must ask you to wait one turn to take down the city defenses to 24% before attacking Tiwa. All we have is the elephant and two swords ready. That isn't enough. Please take down his defenses to 24 first.

I want you, if possible to take Machu Pichu. Next issue of importance is taking east or west for your galleys. Both are valuable. Iif you can take the southeastern HC city in a few turns, do so. I am sorry I hestitated moving Mcgruthers towards that city, otherwise we could have it 3 turns earlier. Our axeman outside Cori something is wounded. He won't be able to take the city alone. Wait for McGruthers.

When we claim this southern front, we'll be able to steamroll Cathy with conquistadors via new galleys. We can let HC have his little far eastern outpost, and sue for peace.

I'm fairly happy with my turnset. I made some :smoke: moves, like not advancing the axeman enough, and switching to hinduism when I didn't need to--thus letting Lizzy out of our religious grasp. I also made progress. Peace with Cathy, conquest of HC's capital, struck an IVORY deal with Lizzy, horses connected, and massive troop movement and some Elephants built, mostly moved to the right places.

Liq, it'll be your responsibility to assess the post-guilds tech situation, discuss it with teammates. It'll also be our collective responsibility to get Conquistadors up and running via our galleys. We'll also need our courthouses, but that can wait since we'll have conquistadors.

Can you say, oscillating war ? :goodjob:

Nice going too to get Huayna and Lizzy to help us out !

I actually realized that switching to serfdom was a mistake after the fact, but forgot to put it in the report. Veovim put us on the road to Feudalism heading towards Guilds, and once Conquistadores are online, I think we can be quite happy with that.

Liq is not really sober right now (oh hi harvey) so I"ll read this thread in detail after um I collapse.


oh and sirian

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/liquidated/jumping-smiley-021.gif

This one is soooooooooo goofed up on cough syrup he's oozing a puddle!!!!!!

Liq's mascot smilie!

oh and sirian, there's always hockey.


Cheers!
-Liq'd (for 4 days running)

oh got it and all have time tonight, I was late on osg8 as was to put it off any longer.

Cheers!
-Liq

ok update!!! finally got home, sick superbowl and work is about killing me but I will post turns in the next 8 hours. debating sleep first but not before food..

oh and this board is taking 5 mins to load anything right now.

Cheers!
-Liq

preturn: ok well drasca left lots to build in the queue so I can go light on the infra mm.
our finances need help very badly, post guilds tech will be banking for banks and mercantil... the only time that civic is woth crap is closed borders lol.

ooo toku has 10 gold... take his lunch money from him.

notice cordoba is not working it's fish so fix that and move work to hills for 40% improvement in hammers.

ok hitting turn.
IBT:
toku moves his catapult out of osaka... ok...
Madrid finishes: Maceman
Barcelona finishes: Aqueduct

[1]1300 AD
Madrid begins: Galley
Barcelona begins: Forge

Battle for Twinkie!
cats lower def to 24%
Dumbo (War Elephant) defeats (1.60/8): Incan Archer
a bit close there.
"Fubar" Patrick Scarr (Swordsman) defeats (1.20/6): Incan Archer
opps accidentally used the wounded city attack 3 sword instead of the rookie city one...
Plank Monkey Bailey (Swordsman) defeats(5.16/6): Incan Quechua
oh well!
Captured Twinkie (Huayna Capac)

hmm screen didn't take, got like 130ish gold from looting.

Binky (worker) joins our cause! Binky says capac was too nice to him and please hit him some more, he's into all that.


Stage 1 of Battle for Coriwhatever!
archer and quiche in town..
Cheatin' Thomas Jones (Axeman) defeats (4.15/5): Incan Archer
Real men don;t eat Quiche! so coriwhatever lives one more turn.

shuffle tropps via boat...

Keel-Haulin' Davy Cutty (maceman) just picked up in madrid goes to brown dot hill.

IBT:
Madrid grows: 12
Cordoba grows: 6
Islam founded in a distant land

[2]1320 AD
Battle for Coriwhatever!
Cheatin' Thomas Jones (Axeman) defeats (4.15/5): Incan Quechua
Captured Corihuayrachina (Huayna Capac)

another 130ish booty.

keep town as it's a channel past continent.


IBT:
Seville grows: 8
Cathy builds the Parth.

[3]1330 AD
Cuzco comes online, time to get some culture going.
Cuzco begins: Hindu Temple

troops pressing on to manchu pinko. dropping xbows off at the towns.

jake the garden snake is done working on cordoba waiting on a boat to take him away.


IBT:
Madrid finishes: Galley
Barcelona grows: 11
Tokyo grows: 3
Kyoto grows: 5

[4]1340 AD
Madrid begins: Longbowman for city garrison.

Prepping manchu pinko by landing two swords and 2 cats next door... a whole loota crap in there, none is hard.
IBT:
ooooooo guess what???? toku made another worker!
Cordoba's borders expand


[5]1350 AD
Coriwhatever begins: Lighthouse it needs food to grow.

IBT:
mancu pops a longbow... booo.Seville finishes: Courthouse


[6]1360 AD
Seville begins: Market

Battle for Manchi Pinko...
need to get rid of those archers now before they upgrade into more longbows... The bigman is put to the test....
Bigman Todd (Swordsman) defeats (1.20/6): Incan Longbowman
He's the Man!
next up scrub swordsmen who haven;t eraned their names yet.
Swordsman loses to: Incan Archer (1.68/3) p0 was a city attack 1
Swordsman defeats (3.96/6): Incan Archer other city attack 1 gets exp.
Bigman Thomas Jones (Axeman) defeats (5.00/5): Incan Quechua Formerly Cheatin' for those keeping score.

3 quiches 2 galleys and a caveral (!) left... next turn they die as the elephants just landed as well another badass swordsman.

damn toku won;t give us his lunch cash
IBT:
GUILDS COMES IN!!!! hubba hubba start banking in 8 turns.. fyi was !! when I queued it at start of my turn.
Madrid grows: 13
Madrid finishes: Longbowman
Kyoto grows: 6

[7]1370 AD
Madrid begins: Market need to build cash buildings there.

Battle for Manchi Pinko... clean up time...
defenses lowered to 4%
Swordsman promoted: City Raider II
Swordsman defeats (4.26/6): Incan Quechua 6 exp for a future bigman?
War Elephant defeats (8.00/8): Incan Quechua
War Elephant defeats (4.56/8): Incan Quechua
Captured Machu Picchu (Huayna Capac)

keep the town as the mature village alone will pay for the upkeep.

gonna make peace with capac for... compass and drama. hehe.

no earthly idea where you guys want all these troops so I will leave them centered in Manchu Pinko

IBT:
Tech learned: Compass
Tech learned: Drama
Kyoto finishes: Barracks
Cuzco finishes: Hindu Temple


[8]1380 AD
Cheap culture!
Kyoto begins: Theatre
Cuzco begins: Theatre
Twinkie begins: Theatre

IBT:
Cathy asks for guilds, I tell her to eff off.
Tokyo finishes: Lighthouse

[9]1290 AD
tokyo begins: Granary

zz


IBT:
nada

[10]1295 AD
Nada


ok here's the idea...

mermaid is set to take his jump spot west of osaka
once there load up 1 or 2 raider units, keel is there now to pickup. toku slave will be moving north one next turn or so declare war and place maceman on marked spot to take worker next turn. Ship off worker and make peace with toku AFTER pillaging everything.

Finances are getting hit hard but each town we have is productive sooner rather than later. Need to focus on threatres for the new towns to get their lands worked.. it's all pre-developed for us =) cordoba needs a threatre to keep horses... notice we have a second resource for horses soon in Manchu Pinko. Also cori will bring in sheep.

wine and sugar were hooked up during my watch as well.

we have room for a town still north of twinkie, not a bad idea to grab it. if we do settle it, cut that forest first. Find out what's up before moving binky away.

I'm still feeling like crap so I took a very long time to play this turnset, resting between turns and drinking lots of fluids. I mean cough syrup IS a liquid ja?

need to break before posting screens.

Only casualty was a swordsman that had to charge early.

Cheers!
-Liq'd

ug ok really not feeling so good let me skip til sunday as I plan on not waking up anytime soon.

Cheers!
-Liq'd

Well played! Sleep well Liq. Time to go peek at the saved game.

Yes, I like to queue production up. I feel this is a lesser problem than movement queues, but I'll get rid of those if you do not like them Liq.

I recommend against building a plantation by Kyoto, because we already have Silk near Osaka we can hook up, and trading away would not be a good idea. Again, don't want our enemies gaining resources if we can deny them.

Queued production like that is fine. honestly when there's city busting to be done, one wants to concentrate on the busting, not the granarys.. as for the silk, I had resources off so missed the kyoto silk. Agree on the denial of silk close to osaka but honestly toku is screwed lol.

Got worker over to kyoto btw. It took my entire turn to set up but the boat will be used as a worker ganking device at a nice juncture in time... just as worker is 2 spaces north of osaka.

revolt to mercantile asasp.. that will help research alot.

more work then more sleep.


Cheers!
-Liq

Great going on preparation & execution of the Incan war, Drasca and Liq !
Agree that Cathy should next, and we should probably do something about Lizzy at some point..

Guess I should play doped up on cough syrup more often ;).

Who's up next ?

Silver is back I think... drasca knows for sure. Z is awol in other SG's so um next is silver or Veom..

Kipper needs to pull the trigger though.

Cheers!
-Liq

I know I'm back :p. But I forget where I was reinserted into the roster.

EDIT: From looking on the page before, it looks like Zeviz is up, and then I'm after :p

If Zeviz is AWOL, would you mind if I took this set tonight? I will have a hard time finding time Monday or Tuesday.

It looks to me like we aren't really ready to pull the trigger on Cathy yet, so the main thing to do for the next few turns is to let the current infrastructure builds complete, then switch our most productive cities (Madrid and Seville) to Conquistadores, our next most productive ones (Kyoto and Cordoba) to forges, and other cities to either maces (if they can be built in a reasonable length of time), or longbows (to free up the offensive troops that are standing around in Incan territory). Speaking of the troops in Incan territory, I'm not really sure what to do with them, so any advice would be appreciated.

Tech-wise, it looks like a good next target would be engineering, for pikes to fight the knights we will no doubt face not too far down the line. As always, I'm open to suggestions, though.

Edit: My apologies, but it doesn't look like I'll have time to play this evening, either. I really hope things work out before I'm officially up.

well next out of Veov and silver that can play post got it and run with it I guess =)

Cheers!
-Liq(d)

If Zeviz is AWOL, then I will play these turns in roughly a day's time.

Ok. Updated roster:

Silver: Go ahead and grab the game, if you can play and report in by Tuesday night (your local time).

Veovim: Think you can play the next turnset and report between Wednesday and Friday?

Jameson: Wait for resonses and work yourself in.

Veovim: Think you can play the next turnset and report between Wednesday and Friday?
I should be good to play some of the turns Thursday night, and finish the rest Friday.

Sorry for disappearing. I will not have time to play in the next couple of days, so skipping me was a good decision. Generally, if I don't reply withing the 24 hour "got it" window, feel free to skip me. (By the way, what other SG am I AWOL in? I am only playing this one and RB13 and my turn in 13 will not be up for a while.) Again, sorry for the delay.

Ack, sorry for the delay. It's taking longer than expect. As well, I got side tracked by RL when someone threw a curveball task at me today a school.

The report WILL be up by tomorrow (which is Tuesday, so I should be ok by Drasca's report).

hmm liq 01 ring a bell Z? hehe

Cheers!
-Liq

Are you confusing me with Zavior? (I know, another weird Z-v-- name. :) )

lol oh must be the cough syrup hehehe sorry.

am indeed..

:blush:


hehehe

Cheers!
-Liq

(0)1400AD: Preflight check.

Twinkie is stagnant. How unfortunate. I use the whip to finish the theatre. I want the border pop sooner rather than later, and a granary would be good for this food mediocre city.

(1)1410AD: We are the second most powerful civilization in the world. Unsurprisingly, Russia is ahead of us. Conquestadors (sp?) will solve that problem though. We also have a monopoly on guilds, so I'm going to keep it that way until it appears it's no longer worthwhile to.

Liz doesn't want to give us her clams for free anymore. How did we get those for free to begin with? Wow. Anyways, all we have that she doesn't have is iron (I'm not giving that away) and 1 sugar which we need for ourselves. No deal Liz.

Forge in Barc is done. Start courts to staunch financial bleeding.
Cordoba finishes its courts. I recall something about keeping the horses here. So I start up a theatre. Was a toss up between that and a monastary, but theatre is more culture. More bang for the buck.
Whipped theatre in Twinkie is done, start on a granary as said before.

I agree with Drasca in not working that silk... too close to Toku for comfort. But then Cabin Girl has nothing to do. I decide to send her to the HC island. Some of that tundra land down south could use some help, and there is an unconnected iron (although connecting it would be pointless if we don't like trading).

Start chopping Binky's forest. It will go to Madrid. Whoo... This is a decent cash city. Two food sources and nice amounts of coast. Drools...

Load up the maceman onto Merman's Fury. Will move it next turn provided that Toku moves his damn cats off the intended drop point. I don't want to lose units in amphibious.

(2)1420AD: Lizzy comes asking for iron for our clams. No...

Tokyo done the granary. It has bad production. I set it on a cheap theatre. Will work on getting Jake up there or something to fix it up. Bad production and bad food is not a good combo.

Kyoto done theatre. Courts to save some cash money is up.

Oh look... Toku did move the catapult. Going in.

I decide that Machu Pinko is find by itself. Cabin Girl will go to Tokyo instead.

Hmmm... sometime between 1400 and now, we became Cathy's worst enemy! Wow.

(3)1430AD: Toku suicided his catapult on our maceman who escaped FLAWLESS...

Banking is done. Start on paper. Want printing press for cash money :p.

Cuzco done theatre, start granary.
Machu Pinko out of resistance and starving. Start a theatre and whip it.

I collect a new worker named "Ditch Digger". I then realize it would've been smarter to simply pillage this turn, THEN collect the new worker. Oh well...

(4)1440AD: Machu Pinko finishes whipped theatre. Starts on a lighthouse.

Deposit new worker near cabin boy, who has also run out of things to do this turn.

Cabin Girl reaches Kyoto to help with terraforming efforts :p.

(5)1450AD: Madrid is finished... something. lol I didn't look. Start on a grocer for the $$$ and the health.

Smash cottage for 7 gold. Whoo... Should I bother smashing the road?

(6)1460AD: I start Seville on a Conquestador (sp?). Then I notice it is working a mined desert hill, when it could be working a mined grassland with copper and growing instead of stagnant at below happy... Brilliant of me to miss such things...

Cordoba done theatre. Forge means bling production, but Cordoba has more happy than health. So Forge, then que up a aquaduct.

Annoyingly, I forgot to turn Sid's tips off after the patch. Master Advisor reminds me that Tokyo is unimproved and needs workers. Yes I know that, which is why there are now 4 workers in the area.

Cuzco is done granary. Sweet hammer city right now, but not much good for much else, so barracks it is.

Twinkie also finishes granary. Town city, so it gets a library.

For fun, I kill one of Toku's two archers. I'm not going to pillage the road, because the new worker would pause to rebuild it, and we would get him slower.

(7)1470AD: Annoyingly, Toku's culture has expanded, and Mermaid's Jump Point is now in his territorial waters. Boo.

Nothing really going on this turn. Continuing to shift workers around and such. Making Tokyo a better place :p.

(8)1480AD: Kyoto is done courthouse. I think a lighthouse would be very useful. Lots of Cha-ching to be had.

(9)1490AD: Paper is done. Start printing press. Feel free to veto though. Just trying to get those HC cities all nice.

Paper for Optics and 60 gold with Lizzy. Cathy and HC both are "our worst enemy". Lizzy also already has guilds (not from us). We can't get anything for it from our "worst enemies" so it doesn't really matter.

(10)1500AD: Tokyo theatre done. Start courts.

Cuzco now has a barracks, so it starts on Conquestadors (sp?). I note that their icon is VERY SIMILAR to explorers (obviously Sid and the gang still took that page from Civ 3).

Cori finishes lighthouse, starts theatre.


Turn Synopsis. Nothing really happening this turn. Peace treaty with HC expired, so if someone wants another go at him, be my guest. Tried to throw up some needed infrastructure, and probably ended up throwing up uneeded infrastructure. Have 2 conquestadors (sp?) building.

Cathy seriously needs to be our next target. She's a pest, and she has techs up on us, so once we have conquestadors (sp?) rolling off the line, we should frag her before cossacks show up. I left the stack where it was in Machu Pinko.

Do we really need to keep Toku around as a worker farm? Killing him would be so much nicer for our land and security forces.

Lizzy is willing to give us copper, clams, and 1 gpt for our iron. Do not know if you specifically need iron for knights, did not check. If you do, it is probably not safe to give her iron. If they can be built with copper, we might as well get those extra resources.

I did not revolt to Mercantilism when it came in, because when I checked around the cities, we had some trade routes going with the English in our larger cities. I was not sure whether the benefits of Mercantilism outwiegh the losses.

Sorry, no pics. Nothing really changed geography wise (other than southern border expansions) so I didn't want to upload and crop stuff.

Considering we got HC's towns pre built, that's a metric ton of worker time done for us already.

Toku was seriously sweet to our slave fund and well once we have free workers, kyoto will be a viable town..

might as well take the town sooner or later imo.

Make sure we lose not a single worker to cathy in the upcoming war. Too easy to let them get snaked via boats and we cannot simply make more.

Cheers!
-Liq

No, we don't need to keep Toku as a slave farm. However, our efforts should be concentrated on Cathy. Consider which is a greater delay to conquering Russia, extorting peace treaties off Japan, or moving military resources to capturing a city that is or is not a threat to us.

Do HC's cities have Towns in them? Otherwise PP is a waste. In that case, we should move toward military tradition and cavalry.

Ok, as long as my plan to play between thursday and friday night won't delay too long, I've got it.

Sounds like a good time-plan to me. Any thoughts on what you'll do?

Sounds like a good time-plan to me. Any thoughts on what you'll do?

Get a round of conquistadores going from our more productive cities (Madrid, Barcelona, Seville, and Cuzco), a forge in Kyoto, and a few longbowmen in cities that can't do conquistadores very quickly (e.g. Machu Pinko) to relieve city garrisons. Any thoughts as to what direction I should start moving our troops as they complete? (i.e. What Russian cities do we want to go for first? Yekaterinburg (by Cordoba), and Yakutsk (by Madrid and Twinkie) would be two relatively easy to take targets, or I could move troops towards Novgorod (north end of their main island) so we can go straight for the big cities.)

I'd prefer going for the main cities first, going for the colonies will just reduce Russian spending on maintenance ( and they'll fall like ripe apples once the Russian core is gone anyway :D).

Thanks to a good old freezing rain storm, I had some extra time on my hands and managed to get my turns done today.:)

1505 (1) - Cathy asks to trade Music for Paper and some gold. Seeing as we'll soon conquer her empire, I decline.
Barcelona finishes its court, starts a conquistadore (7 turns).

1510 (2) - Seville finishes a conquistadore, starts another (6 turns).
Machu Pinko finishes its lighthouse, starts a longbow (8 turns).
Socrates is born in Madrid, and builds an Academy there.
For the record, Capac adopts Vassalage. We may want to be careful about him attacking us when we're handling Russia.

1515 (3) - Nothing much happens.

1520 (4) - Toku offers to give us his 10 gold for peace. I don't see why not to accept this for now.
Madrid finishes its Grocer, starts a conquistadore (5 turns).

1525 (5) - Nothing much happens.

1530 (6) - The various conquistadores are due to start completing soon, so I start moving some units around to get ready. Merman's Fury is ready to pick up the two conquistadores from Seville. Nameless galley is ready to pick up the conquistadores from Madrid and Barcelona. I move the bulk of the troops from Manchu Pinko over to Cori-Canal city.

1535 (7) - Cordoba builds its forge, and starts a catapult (3 turns).
Cuzco finishes a conquistadore, and starts a galley (3 turns).

1540 (8) - Barcelona finishes a conquistadore, and starts another one (7 turns).
Seville finishes a conquistadore, and starts another one (5 turns).

1545 (9) - Madrid finishes a conquistadore, and starts a harbor (3 turns).
Twinkie finishes its Library, and starts a longbow (6 turns).

1550 (10) - Cordoba finishes its catapult, and starts another (3 turns).
Kyoto finishes its forge, and starts a library (5 turns).
Cuzco finishes its galley, and starts a longbow (3 turns).
Manchu Pinko finishes its longbow, and starts a granary (4 turns).

These were some fairly quiet turns (mostly building troops). The two galleys in the picture below carry most of the invasion force from Manchu Pinko, plus some conquistadores. There is also another galley with two conquistadores in Cordoba. Just as a warning, I was never very good at naval invasions in Civ 3, so it would be a good idea to double check that the force is enough to last until reinforcements can be brought in.

http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/4190/rb10russianinvasion0xu.th.jpg (http://img45.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rb10russianinvasion0xu.jpg)

And of course, the save.

I lost count how many times conquestador was used in that post hahahaha :D

Honestly, they are really scary UU's if we beat cathy to cav.

Imo lets find out where cathy's horses (if she has any) are and stomp them.

Cheers!
-Liq

Jameson: Up
Zeviz: On Deck
Drasca: Third watch


Jameson, Zeviz, report in. Jameson, able to do this Friday-Sun?
Zeviz, you're up after Jameson reports in. How's the schedule look Sat-tuesday area?

Got it, will be able to play on Saturday certainly, possibly (but less likely so) tonight.

I'll probably be able to play at some point during those 3 days. Most likely Monday, because I'll be at home that day.

There is also another galley with two conquistadores in Cordoba. Just as a warning, I was never very good at naval invasions in Civ 3, so it would be a good idea to double check that the force is enough to last until reinforcements can be brought in.QUOTE]

Good work building galleys your turn. We do need units to satisfy "we demand military protection" :mad:, but I disagree on about building longbows vs say, another galley, caravel, conquistador, or catapult.

Remember, water map, and we have magellon's voyage +1 mp to naval units, we should be able to intercept and outmanuever any incoming vessels. Our conquests depend on naval domination, and our enemies cannot reach us so long as we rule the seas, like historical Spain until England achieved Naval superiority with, ironically for this game, Elizabeth.

Additionally, our conquistadors can gain defensive bonuses. A base 10 str + defenses is worth far more than 6 + any city garrison defenses it can muster up. For this same reason, gunpowder isn't as appealing to us

We'll need some caravels though

[quote=S.ilver]
I agree with Drasca in not working that silk... too close to Toku for comfort

Dangit, I should've brought a dot map in. Wrong silk. I wanted to work the silk near Toku's Osaka, and skip the one near Kyoto (our city). The one near osaka isn't within production range of any of our cities, while we're losing one hammer, one health, from deforesting Kyoto, plus any future hammers from lumber mills... and we gain.. what? A few commerce? We have more than that on a cottage tile. When we already have workable silk in our borders, this is a net loss.


Taking a look at Veovim's save.

Oooh oooh! Upgrade those CRIII Swords at Pinko!

Tech: I daresay, up our science to grab PP in one turn. More net commerce earlier is a good thing. Next tech: I highly recommend Astronomy. Military tradition is also a good choice, but imo getting troops where you want them when you want them is far more important.

Cathy has Astronomy, that means galleons soon, and we'll lose our naval edge if we don't grab it too. We can't afford naval inferiority on this map.

PS: Why do we have so many science specialists when we have 3 commerce coastal tiles? Are we aiming toward academies?

Cathy is a priority, but so is Elizabeth. I'm less worried about Cathy than Elizabeth really. Cathy's ahead in tech now, but she's choked expansion wise, and we can take cathy out. Elizabeth has few expansion difficulties (no neighbors), and might runaway with this game if we let her

Cathy's also ripe for plucking. I see a lot of units around. Let's make use of them. Start softening those defenses boys, and bring in massive numbers of siege weapons. More cats is always a safe choice, because bombardment and collateral damage are always useful on the attack.

Summary: I want cats! I want galleys! I want Galleons (Astronomy). Forget longbows, we can use cats as for the 'military protection' happiness (cheaper 40 cat cost vs 50 LB cost), or whatever obsolete units we can scrap together.

Sound the trumpets for war and bring down those Russian walls!

So, the doctor wants pretty much everything and he wants it now ?
OK, I'll see what I can do :D.

Novgorod looks like a good place to start our very own Barbarossa, we'll work our way down the Russian island from there. So the galleys in the South will go North and link up with the units in the North, then land. Russia lacks Guilds so now worries there, on the downside, they're up philosophy, astronomy and engineering among others. So she needs to go down, and not in a good way :hammer:.

Go over the cities, fire all scientists and work the sea tiles instead. I'm not sure I agree with the tech choice ( PP will gain us a grand total of 2 commerce in the near term) but will keep it on for trade bait. I won't use cats as city garrisons, spears will do just fine (and can upgrade eventually).


1560 AD (2) Madrid builds harbour, starts galley. PP comes in, start on engineering ( cos astronomy will obsolete the Colossus) and we need only enough breathing room to get our troops across.
The harbour and PP contribute enough so that we can set science to 60% at no deficit.

1570 AD (4) Invasion fleet arrives at Córdoba, reduce science a bit for upgrades. Our workers are stuck in former Japanese lands (which are fully improved too), I think it's time to bring them home overland, and if Toku disagrees, so much the worse for him.

1575 AD (5) Barcelona completes a Conquistador, let's let him live up to his name. Madrid's building one too. Upgrade one unit in Córdoba.

1580 AD (6) Declare war on Russia and land at Novgorod:

http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/5169/rb10invasion1wl.jpg

Also grab another worker at Córdoba island.

1585 AD (7) Just for good measure, declare war on Toku too. Why ? We've got enough workers on our home island, Osaka can be turned into a pretty decent city soon enough, and his cultural borders are in the way of direct communication between Kyoto/Tokyo and our core cities. Our Conq from Barca kills one archer, unfortunately, our forestman mace dies although the odds were in our favour ( 8.8 vs 6.8). I plead youthful impatience.

No Russian counters.

1590 AD (8) Reduce Novgorod to 6% defenses, no counters. No strike yet either because it's on a hill so we will want to send in the suicide cats first (there are 5 on the scence at the mo).
Toku dies:

http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/2118/rb10japandead2sp.jpg

land two workers next to it, we'll want a farm or two to support a mined hill and the two plains tiles, it's cottage/ plantation country otherwise.

1595 AD (9) 2 Cats die but Novgorod falls:

http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/1553/rb10novgorod7qc.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Moscow's next.

1600 AD (10) Engineering comes in, set science to Astronomy but I'd seriously consider going for education instead. No-one has it yet so we could go for liberalism and pick astronomy for our free tech. Also, Cathy hasn't shown any intention of countering us navally yet so Galleons aren't a consideration so far (and we've got enough galleys to get our troops acroos).
I built a mix of troops and infrastructure, harbours, granaries and libraries mostly. I must confess to not looking particularly closely at our cities after the first turn, so please check them on the next turn. We're plenty happy so growth should be the order of the day.
We can build the Forbidden Palace, once it's done building its troops Córdoba seems like a good location to me.

On the AI front, Toku's dead, Cathy will die and Huayna has been very ably neutered in the previous turnsets.

Anyone up for a conquest win ? :D

Wow, guess Cathy was all talk and no wak there. Not a single counter attack?

Guess she was using bare garrisons on her towns... too bad for russia lol.

Nice turn set. If russia is just gonna roll over, this game is won. I mean our home front is safe, HC's FORMER towns are prebuilt with mature cottages and working for us now.

We also now officially have "too many" slaves at hand such that our limit on 'slaves, not workers' is a non-issue.

Nice game so far.

Cheers!
-Liq

Nope, not a single counterattack. Spotted only Longbows and ships in Moscow (well, 2 cats too, I killed another one on the way). I'm almost disappointed with the level of resistance :cool:.

You're lucky I didn't set this on Monarch or Emperor, then you'd see massive counters.

While astronomy would obsolete colossus, we have enough inland tiles to afford it. I disagree with engineering because this is a water map, and pikes / castles won't really help us here while teching towards Military Tradition Cavalry or Astromy's Galleons and Observatories will.

The game isn't over yet. Elizabeth has been growing across the seas without anything to stop her and I'm not entirely convinced we have enough logistical naval support to take her out without galleons. She also likely has macemen by now.


Roster:
Zeviz, Go ahead and play it monday. Report by tuesday?
Drasca: I'll likely be able to play and report by wednesday if Zev plays monday.
Liq: Looks like somewhere in the latter half of this week for you buddy.

You're right, engineering wasn't the ideal choice here. In hindsight it'd have been better to go for it outright or failing that, head for education-liberalism and pick it up as a free tech.

Unfortunately I couldn't play this weekend. I am sorry about that. I can play (and post) this evening (posting around midnight Pacific Time), or you can skip me completely.

Go ahead and play Tuesday -- Wednesday. Think you can have a report by then? I can't play Tuesday anyhow.

1600AD (0) - Our empire seems to be in great shape. We are #1 in production and military, as well as many other categories. We are #3 in GNP, but that shouldn't matter, because the game shouldn't last long with our current military advantage. :)

Militarily, we don't have enough cats, so Madrid and Kyoto start working on them. Merman's Fury sails to pick up Madrid's soon-to-be-built Cat. 2 galleys sail to former Incan lands to pick up 2 CR3 macemen we have sitting there. Barc starts on a Caravel, because there is a Russian caravel nearby and I don't want the city to starve in the 11 turns it'll take us to learn Astronomy.

1605AD (1) Seville Harbor -> Conquistador (5); Cuzco Library -> Catapult (2); Osaka Granary (15)

1610 (2) Kyoto Cat -> Conquistador (5); Cordoba Cat -> Conquistador (4)

1615 (3) Madrid Cat -> Conquistador (5); Cuzco Cat -> Conquistador(6)

Yekaterinburg is bombed down to 0% and it turns out that Combat 2 Conquistadors have 71% chance even against CG longbows. Conquistador wins. Second one has 78% chance against untrained longbow. It wins and captures the city and 105 gold. Then elephant kills Cat that foolishly left the city. The victorious Conquistadors board Titan's Rage and sail to Moscow to get healed up there.

Moscow's defences are down to 0, but I am waiting to suicide a couple of cats first.

Lots of ships move.

IBT: Conquistador defending on a hill kills one of Moscow's longbowmen. I guess they are getting desperate.

1620 (4) Moscow has 5 Cats, 4 Longbows, a Warrior, 3 Galeons and 4 Caravels. We have 4 Conquistadors, 2 Elephants, 3 Cats and a mace in attack position. (Spread over 3 squares to minimize Cat damage.) First, a suicide cat dies, damaging a couple longbows. Conquistador attacks at 78% and dies. Conquistador attacks at 79% and wins. Conquistador wins at 89%. Conquistador barely wins at 91%. Elephant wins at 97%. Cat kills a wounded Warrior. (The fact that cats defend last can be a disadvantage.) Elephant, Cat and Mace kill cats and I am 2 units short of taking the city.

I drop off Conquistador, Cat and 2 CR3 maces near Rostov, which is protected by a single longbow, but has 85% defence.

IBT: Rostov gets 2 more longbows and another longbow goes to a hill near Moscow.

1625 (5) Novgorod Theatre (10) for border expansion.

Moscow falls. Caty moved only 1 Caravel to Rostov, so we've destroyed 3 Galeons and 3 Caravels, when capturing the city. :)

With Moscow, we capture Academy, Observatory, Lighthouse, The Oracle, Notre Dame, Chichen Itza (which removes defensive bonus from Russian cities) and ... The Pyramids!

Our cats start bombarding Rostov.

2 workers are taken from Incan lands to Yekaterinburg.

I turn up the culture slider a little to decrease WW. Police State isn't worth it yet, because we are getting more benefit from MP.

IBT: Conquistador kills a longbow somewhere. Caravel kills Russian Caravel near Barc. I promote it to Medic to heal our future galeons.

1630 (6) More conquistadors are trained and ordered.

We bomb Rostov down to 0%. Bigman Cecil kills longbow (95% chance of success). Bigman Jones kills another one (also at 95%). We capture the city and 95$. This leaves only St. Petersburg on Russia's mainland. Now most of the mainland is no longer in Russian borders. We are now close 2nd in GNP and distant 1t in production and troops.

Advancing towards St. Petersburg reveals a CG longbow and cat retreating towards the city, who are quickly dispatched by a couple of conquistadors. St. Petersburg will be the scene of Russia's final stand with 6 longbows, 2 workers and a settler covering in the city.

A Russian Caravel finally decides to harrass our shipment between Kyoto and Moscow. I try to bait it with a Combat 1 Galley, escorting a couple of loaded ships, but misclick and sent Mermaid's Fury ahead. Rather than reloading, I unload the galley onto nearby island, waiting for inevitable.

IBT Surprizingly, the caravel doesn't attack. Russians have been very tame with their caravels, failing to pose serious threat to my shipping lines or even to blocade cities.

1635 (7) Soldiers march, ships sail, cities build.

1640 (8) Madrid Conquistador -> Theatre (3)

Conquistador kills Russian longbow that leaves St. Petersburg.

1645 (9) Ptolemy is born in Madrid. Leave him alone for now, because it's unclear where to build next Academy. Barc and Seville start on Theatres to combat WW.

1650 (10) Cordoba Longbow -> Longbow (cheapest useful defenders); Cuzco Conquistador -> Colessium (to help unhappiness); Coriwhatever Harbor -> Library (it has no food or production, so I changed it to work all water tiles and just pay for itself that way)

We have 10 million people.

St. Petersburg is bombarded down to 0% and will be taken next turn.

Notes:

1. Cat is about to lose her last major city and be left with only 3 colonies. Is it time to switch focus to Liz, or should we finish Cat off while we are at it?

2. Our economy is about to collapse due to obsolescence of Colossus. We are already breaking even only at 30% research. I recommend turning off research and switching to Gunpowder for a few turns to gather the cash for upgrading Galleys while Colossus hadn't been obsoleted. I've just done that, but it's vetoable.

3. What should we do with our scientist? Academies are good, but at this point, we might as well save him for a golden age.

4. I was training a lot of military units, so we probably need to focus on infrastructure now.

5. There are 4 galleys in Cordoba (1 loaded with conquestadors) hiding from Russian caravels and waiting to be upgraded to galeons.

Moscow falls. Caty moved only 1 Caravel to Rostov, so we've destroyed 3 Galeons and 3 Caravels, when capturing the city.

boggle, cathy is a moron. the amount of damage those ships could have done would have stalled us considerably... instead tehy die needlessly.

Imo take out st peter and sue cathy for all she is worth tech and cash wise.

Time to take liz down then look at mopping up.

Imo this is a done game in that the army/navy we have now is unstoppable so long as we move now.

We can afford to say screw all to tech and just walk over lizzy.

Nice turns Z

Cheers!
-Liq

Got save. You're right, it is infrastructure time.

It is also time to focus on Liz, after Cathy loses Rostov, crippling her from being a major power anymore. I plan to take Rostov, then go to peace and move as many units as I can to Liz's borders.

That gives us some breathing time to deal with future happiness problems, and logistically move our units toward Lizzy's territory.

Most of our beakers come from our big cities mind you, so observatories there might actually improve our overall research. I'm considering switching to mercantilism too, just to deny lizzy commerce.

Here's my battleplan:

Take out Rostov, Declare peace with Cathy to annihilate war weariness, Switch to Representation + Mercantilism (for specialist beaker synergy), Bureacracy, Org religion.

Use our food surplus cities to fuel specialists and research via representation.

Courthouses everywhere.

I'm not sure when I'll obsolete Colossus, but economy's the last thing to worry about when we're gearing for a final war.

I think I'll use that great scientist to forward education. I plan on changing from military civics within 3 turns, so it is best I squeeze all the partially built military units out immediately. Gearing up all cities to complete conqistadors in their queues.

1650 (0):

Cordoba gets Yekat's Elephant and loads onto fresh galleys led by St Jameson's fire alongside 2 conquisatdors. We have equivalent movement with Cathy's caravels, so we'll move southeast. I think the reason she doesn't use them offensively is because they're scripted as explorer vessels, not sea attack vessels.

Barcelona's Caravel now named Drasca's yacht, heads west and discovers Lizzy has settled directly west to us. How big is she?!?

Cuzco becomes my new winter vacation spot, now named Drasca's villa. Lakes, beaches, forest, sugar, what's not to like? I'll even import the finest slaves there too. Only two problems. 1) No place to shop, so I'll build a market, and two... slightly overpopulated with angry citizens. Well well, I think that can fix itself. Come two turns, whip!

Similarly, Yek, unpronouncable, is now renamed Tower of Zeviz, to lock up my predecessor. Oh your rule was great, oh mighty one, but I have plotted against you in this uprising, and shall establish a political bureacracy, while subtly moving our military for bigger conquests and pacify them under the guise of representation and bureacracy. I may even lead our people towards education and free speech!

War Galleys sent toward St Petersberg.

Starve Seville for Conquistador (2)

Foreign: Negotiate crabs for much needed spices for my Salsa-- and yes, for general populace happiness too, but the happiness of this civ leader IS happiness for the rest of civ.

1655 (1)
Sacrifice 3 catapults, 4th withdrew. Proceed to roll over St Petersburg. Nice work Zeviz. 3 more slaves to our workforce.

For peace, I squeeze Cathy for Philosophy, some change, and her world map. She initially offered music. I'm not sure why, but I was also able to negotiate open borders after that.

War weariness goes away, and I can dial down culture back to zero. Hmm... Great Scientist can gain most of Education, and we have one turn invested... upping science to 50%, Education (1) after using GS to foward Education. '

1660 (2) Cathy Converts to Christianity.

Do my civic switches. Liberalism in 5.

1665 (3) Madrid begins Monasteries, due to bureacracy we can have them in 2 turns each for quick extra beakers.

Units begin landing outside Oxford's cultural borders. From here, we can take Elizabeth's northern mainland and southeastern 3 city holdings.

1670 (4) Sugar for 5gpt from Lizzie. Liberalism in 3. MM a lot of cities.

1675 (5) I can up science to 100 and get lib in 1 turn! Hmm. Short 5 gp... Time to dial up the ambassadors. Lizzy has economics first. Oh well. Huzzah! Cathy buys our map for 10gp. Definitely grabbing replaceable parts with Lib next turn. Moving workers atop forest tiles in preperation for lumber mills. My yacht continues to tour Lizzy's territory. Ah, the good life.


1680 (6) We are first to discover Liberalism, and I grab replaceable parts with it. I'm leaving the tech tree heading in the path of Rifles, Gunpowder (4). Feel free to change to chemistry instead.

1685 (7) War declared on Lizzy. Lots of unit movement.

1690 (8) Move move move.

1695 (9) Oxford's defenses zeroed. Cat suicideded... no damage to longbow. Least experienced Conquistador promoted to flanking 2 in hopes he'll weaken the LB and survive... no dice. Oh well, was worth a shot. 2nd most experienced charges in... defeats LB. Most xp'ed mops up and takes Oxford

Titans rage, carrying two uber CRIII Macemen heads north... and finds Lizzy's worker unescorted roading the jungle of Nottingham. More oarsmen for our galley! Muahaha.

Flanking galley next to Titan's rage must've gotten some luck off Titan's rage. She engages Lizzy's ship with 2 macemen on board, and wins! I was merely hoping to damage, and possibly withdraw if I were lucky. This vessel is christened the Brit slayer

St Pete finally comes out of rioting... and is starving. I know what to do... :whip: lighthouse.

1700 (10) I've landed units near Nottingham, and arranged Galleys in two attack wings. Liq, I suggest you take Wing A led by Brit Slayer and land next to London. Wing B led by Titan's Fury could beachhead in the jungles by Nottingham, and immediately swing to pickup more conquistadors and the Mediphant in Oxford.

Feel free to change my build queues and techs around. They're mostly placeholder infrastructure, with some jewish missionaries in the backround, possibly one galley too.

At the end of Drasca's reign, our population numbers less than 9.5 million Hehehe. Bureacracy of blood! Muahahaa I might as well be Caligula.

Liq, its all yours

Excellent progress all around. Awesome work, everyone! I have noticed one oddity, though: we don't have the heroic epic built anywhere. Admittedly, it's probably too late to make a major difference, but as long as we're in Bureaucracy and Org religion, I think that it could be worthwhile to build it in Madrid after the university completes.

ok well got home from work need to sleep. Turns in the next 12 hours np.... well maybe longer if I sleep 14 :lol:


Cheers!
-Liq'd

Looks like it's just a lot of :hammer: :hammer: :hammer: left now.

preturn: Ok well I chuckle long and hard when I see the innocent soundingwing A and wingB , they are actually all stacked to the brim with conquests hahahaha. Well notice two of the bigmen on city garrison... NO NO NO!!! in dire need of city garrisons to replace the bigmen, who took off for the nearest boats.

need boats as well. lots of boats. eh ok well I'm not gonna stress too much on infra as we are WAY over extended and it's painful to look at haha. That said though, we are in the drivers seat so no worries.. I'll pump out boats and longbows as opportunities come up... doubt I spelled that correctly!!! turns out no one has a barracks in the area so well longbows will eventually be riflemen.


IBT:
liz has a caveral about to destroy our nets...
Barcelona grows: 16
Barcelona finishes: Jewish Monastery
Seville finishes: Theatre
Cordoba finishes: University
Twinkie finishes: University
Coriwhatever grows: 5

[1]1705 AD
Barcelona begins: Caravel
Catapult defeats (5.00/5): English Worker
drop troops off at london and cats take a new slave... haha

norringhams two pinchers meet and will proceeed to bomb nottingham next turn.
load up the bigmen who ship over to the east.

move mermaid over to the coast to block liz's setler galley from proceeding west.

not too much to do, really restricted by our lack of transports.

IBT:
lizzy's caveral not doing anything... what a moron.
Seville grows: 11
Cordoba's borders expand
Cordoba finishes: Jewish Missionary
Twinkie grows: 7
Manchu Pinko grows: 8
Osaka grows: 4
Rostov grows: 3

[2]1710 AD
Missonary to the tower fails... sigh.

drop our new slave Herbie Hamperbin off at oxford, that island needs help.

Start lowering the defences of london(30) and nottingham(21) liz has a metric town of towns..

IBT:liz caveral still sight seeing.
Cordoba grows: 10
Kyoto finishes: University
Drasca's villa grows: 10
Novgorod grows: 6

[3]1715 AD
Oxford begins: Theatre
nottingham's defences Zeroed and one suicide cat goes in and does NICE colatteral.

Catapult loses to: English Longbowman (3.48/6) wow that was a 5% chance of winning.
Send in Cecil for the undamaged longbow and silver knows what that means.............
Maceman defeats (8.00/8): English Longbowman Yet another FLAWLESS kill for The BIGMAN. Yes folks there's a reason silver and I treasure our bigmen!

Rest are wounded
Conquistador defeats (8.60/10): English Spearman
Conquistador defeats (6.10/10): English Horse Archer
Conquistador defeats (1.60/10): English Horse Archer
And send in the medic maceman for the win.....
Maceman loses to: English Longbowman (0.24/6)
NAY Mccruthers loses to a wounded long bow p0/.

To london!!!
no extra cats but defences are 0% and we have a TON of conquests there.
Conquistador loses to: English War Elephant (6.40/8)
booo that horse stank up the joint... good thing the rest is smooth.
Conquistador defeats (3.20/10): English Longbowman
Conquistador defeats (8.10/10): English War Elephant
Conquistador defeats (8.30/10): English Longbowman
Conquistador defeats (0.40/10): English Longbowman
whew
Conquistador defeats (4.00/10): English Spearman
Judaism has spread: London (English Empire)
Judaism has spread: London
Captured London (Elizabeth) gained 197 gold.

move mediphant (great name!) in to heal up and the rest move in. one unused conquest stays with the cats.

IBT:
Madrid grows: 18
Madrid finishes: University
Barcelona's borders expand
Twinkie grows: 8

[4]1720 AD
Madrid begins: Bank
Ok well leave it to the bigman to sweep up nottingham, can cecil do it????
Maceman defeats (8.00/8): English Longbowman
FLAWLESS - was there any doubt???????
Christianity has spread: Nottingham
Captured Nottingham (Elizabeth)
keep the town for no reason and get 130ish gold.

Now that I think about it, that town is leeching londons rice and it's jungle bound... man it's a money pit sorry! York is next - one of the 5 greatest cities!. Not going to get too much done this round as liz has tooo many effing towns. well nottingham somehow has parth AND sistine and sistine is active for us - 2 culture per spec is nice as is +50% GPP.

London has stonehenge wheee.

you know prolly best to take york and call peace with liz to consolidate but that's too easy..

IBT:
Seville grows: 12
Osaka finishes: Jewish Missionary
Novgorod's borders expand
St. Petersburg's borders expand
capac suggests we change to hered. I decline and demand 2 gold a turn and get it from him hahahahaha.

[5]1725 AD
Osaka begins: Jewish Missionary

uh while moving troops to york ( gonna take awhile) half of mediphant just glided across the screen to meet up with his other half in london..... WTF!?!?! hjahahahahaha never seen civ geek that that before! thought that was some super phant walking on water.

Lizz's playing dead btw, not doing a damned thing.

IBT:
Cordoba finishes: Galley
Coriwhatever grows: 6
Osaka grows: 5
Moscow's borders expand
Rostov's borders expand
lizzy drps off it's settler near one of our CITY markers lol.

[6]1730 AD
Cordoba begins: Jewish Missionary
Judaism has spread: Kyoto yay.

IBT:
Rifling comes in.

[7]1735 AD
so many choices for tech, all are fast. I avoid astrology since collosus is helping us tons. chemisty is nice in 5 (after bumping culture up to 20% so go for it tho econ is tempting until I realize everyone hates us lol. make it 4 instead.

Research begun: Chemistry
Moscow begins: Barracks
Barcelona begins: Theatre

getting close to york. The bigmen are all set up waiting on the rest.


IBT:
Seville grows: 13
Twinkie finishes: Galley
Novgorod grows: 7
Tower of Zeviz's borders expand
Oxford's borders expand


[8]1740 AD
Twinkie begins: Barracks
Bombardment of york about to take place.

IBT:
Madrid grows: 19
Seville's borders expand
Cordoba finishes: Jewish Missionary
Drasca's villa grows: 11
Drasca's villa finishes: University
Tower of Zeviz finishes: Courthouse
St. Petersburg grows: 6
Liz FINALLY goes theo and vass.. wow what the heck.

[9]1745 AD
York down to 12% with 6 cats set up now. go in next turn.
Cordoba begins: Barracks
Drasca's villa begins: Rifleman
Tower of Zeviz begins: Theatre

Judaism has spread: Tower of Zeviz yay

IBT:
Tokyo grows: 9
Kyoto's borders expand
Twinkie grows: 10
Tower of Zeviz grows: 3

[10]1750 AD
huntdown that galley finally.
Caravel defeats (3.00/3): English Galley

poof yorks defences are down..
in goes barrage 1 cat... dies does minimal colate no log entry

in goes barrage 2.
Catapult loses to: English Longbowman (3.66/6) does mass collateral
send in the conquest since A one turn from bigmen upgrading to grens!!!!! and b there's a maceman in town that's promoted... c. conquests can move in to heal after.
Conquistador defeats (2.80/10): English Longbowman
Conquistador defeats (10.00/10): English Longbowman
Conquistador defeats (10.00/10): English Longbowman
Conquistador defeats (5.20/10): English Maceman
Conquistador defeats (10.00/10): English Longbowman
Confucianism has spread: York (English Empire)
Confucianism has spread: York
Captured York (Elizabeth)

138 gold keep the city as it has mature towns to pay for itself.

leaving turn there.

1. continue rolling over the towns on that continent of lizzys I guess. we got mass troops.
2. UPGRADE all 3 bigmen to grens. stop research to pay for it. they are all next to york.
3. this is a won game, don;t take the shambles our home front is in seriously.
4. garrison rostov and novorod, they have ZERO troops in them. moscow is almost done with barracks as is cordoba.
5. considering how much cash madrid pulls in, criminal it only now got a bank. :) <------ late edit, this really was humor but Liq did a poor job of conveying that.
6. Theres a bunch of galleys next to york to pick up peeps. if you want to take out hastings to the south.

Sorry for losing that conquest and mace, both bad rolls with heavy odds for. The cats were born to be sacrificed!

Looks like it's been persuasively proven that there's no need to build any stinking workers at levels below Monarch ;) :goodjob:.

Looks like it's been persuasively proven that there's no need to build any stinking workers at levels below Monarch ;) :goodjob:.

lol. I can't think of anything more appropriate than that.

Nice :hammer: Liq! Nothing like the smell of Bigmen roasting cities in the morning :p

if you think they are bad ass now, wait for them to become grens hahaha.

Cheers!
-Liq

Too bad it doesn't look like they'll become Infantry or Mechs. Todd and Cecil were absolutely enormous :p.

Ok, I'll stop reminicing. Grens are good too. :goodjob:

yeah city attack 3 mechs are just evil evil evil. They compliment modern armor very well. No wonder they don;t let you promote mechs in city attack hahaha.


To be brutally honest, Liq has no earthly idea who is up next...

went lets see..
Liq
Silver
Veoviolin
jameswhatever
The other Z..V...
drasca
Liq

silver? haha let me look! yeah think so!
so confusing.

Cheers!
-Liq

Gah! lol. I have no idea who I'm after in here anymore; the first post doesn't reflect the order.

I'll grab it tonight and play it.

Lurker Comment:

liz has a caveral about to destroy our nets...
lizzy's caveral not doing anything... what a moron.

Caravels can't pillage. They are non combat units. They can't even carry combat units. Thus they are the naval units allowed to cross into closed borders even when at peace.

Yeah, why are Caravels the only units that can travel into enemy territory like that anyway? Well, I guess spies do too, but why give caravels that trait?

Yeah, why are Caravels the only units that can travel into enemy territory like that anyway? Well, I guess spies do too, but why give caravels that trait?

From a gameplay perspective, there could be a situation when you might need to get a GP, Missionary, explorer, or Settler somewhere, but couldn't because your only path took you through enemy territory that was closed borders. With the caravel, you can just pass through with your peaceful cargo and continue on.

Grens? We have RIFLES! RIFLES! Did I research gunpowder and riflery for nothing? Who needs str 12 grens when we've got str 14 rifles?!

I think we should just keep whatever towns we capture. Use them as heal centers and move on. It isn't as if Liz can seriously retaliate.

Grenadier
Gunpowder Units
12power 1move 100cost Chemistry +50% attack vs. Rifleman

Rifleman
Gunpowder Units
14power 1move 110cost Rifling +25% vs. mounted units

For the big man label, they need to be all purpose city attack and having 2 extra base attack is nothing compared to the whopping +50% attack against riflemen the grens pick up =)

Rifles are good against cav sure but how many horses are defending towns? If a horse is defending a town , who cares? no defensive bonuses.

If you have a stack of 2 rifles and a cav all 100% health in a city, the rifles have at least the 25% self fortified bonus and possible hill bonus/ city walls (for a rush attack) and probable city garrison promotions. The first two defenders you'll face are rifles, for which the bigmen just clean house.. once you get the cav by itself use a rifle that's in the stack to help protect.

The pc LOVES riflemen as garrison once it gets them since they are a very nice counter to cav. Then again rifles are the last unit good against cav such that once they go obsolete, cav really have no counter other than their own lack luster stats.

Rifles are fine units but sag for city attack which is what the bigman title is all about.


On the caverals not being able to pillage, had no idea, thanks steve! I generally use them for *gasp* scouting such that I never tried.

Cheers!
-Liq

I was just reading some article about Caravals not being able to pillage the other day. Someone was complaining because they couldn't use them properly as pillage units. Which is wierd considering that Galleys can pillage, and Galley's will get their butt whipped by Caravals. But I guess they can't pillage for balance reasons. I mean, how would you like it if the enemy parked caravals on your nets, declared war, and then pillaged them out? It's ROP rape all over again :p.

And yes. In full agreement with Liq about the Bigmen. Bigmen are not Bigmen without being ultra good and smashing cities into the ground. For this purpose, the Grens are good.

I just love the smell of Bigmen roasting cities in the morning :devil:.

Will play and post report and save in 6 hours or so.

:mad: I should never make estimates on my play time. Turns are taking longer than I expected, and I was only able to finish half yesterday. I'll try to run it off my laptop (crappy PIII, probably not possible), but if not, I will finish the turns when I get home tonight.

Grenadier
Rifles are fine units but sag for city attack which is what the bigman title is all about.


Normally, I'd agree, but..

There's two flaws to your logic. Lizzie doesn't have gunpowder, and is nowhere near rifles. :lol: As she gears for war, this slows her tech pace even more. If you wanted to stretch this game out, and wait for her to get

24.5 vs 21 CRIII Str. I'll take the 24.5 from modified rifles...

Two Lizzie, as england, gets get Redcoats IF she gets riflery at all. Honestly by then we should have infantry or better. I'm not even sure grenadiers work against redcoats. They are also up to 30 str from CGIII vs our grenadiers @ 27 str modified vs rifles, which makes it painful. Anyone care to confirm whether grens work against Redcoats?

Rifles are better for our game because we have a strong military tech edge and stronger economy. We'll have better units if we encounter enemy rifles.

Btw: I want to conquer the world, even if we get domination vic. Muahahaha.

Grens get the bonus against redcoats, but owing to the Redcoats' additional strength, they aren't as effective as they'd otherwise be.

Given that it doesn't look like any of the AIs are going to acquire Rifling, I agree with Drasca that we're much better of building Rifles regardless.

Ok, I made you guys wait, so I'll attempt to make it look pretty (prettier than what it usually looks like).

(0)1750AD: Preflight check. Move bigmen into city. Next turn should be good for the upgrade. Move conquests up towards Caterbury. Bigmen will follow soon, but the cats will get there first for a pounding. Not that it will be necessary with a whopping 2 units (mace and longbow) defending Caterbury.

Our slaves are running out of things to do.

I would like to change civics to something appropriate for head bashing. However, I do note that what we have now is running quite nicely, and the mercantilism/representation combo is doing us good. If I were to do anything, I would change us to Vassalage and Theocracy. However, I won't do that, because Vassalage would bleed us cash, and Organized is still useful for getting buildings up. However, we will need to spread Judaism more to make its effect more pronnounced. I consider switching to Free Religion. I'll put in on hold until it doesn't appear we need to build anything more.

(1)1755AD: Cathy wants Printing Press for Divine Right. Hahaha!!! Good one. A token 10 gold was thrown in too to "sweeten" the deal.

Chemistry done. Start on Nationalism! Astronomy would take us only 1 turn to complete, but I'm not stupid :P. Also, might be able to sue for music and head straight to military trad for the smackdown.

Between this turn and last turn, Madrid gained +2 war weariness. Not good. It's done the bank, so I will invest in a Colliseum. I whip it just because I feel like it, and I don't like rioting people.

Barc will start a colliseum as well, but I don't whip it. I stagnant the city to prevent further growth. I may have to whip, or do something else to stop mass rioting. Osaka starts a theatre.

London is out of resistance. London is pissed. London is costing us 21 gold in maintenence, although it IS bringing in 28 gold commerce. Start a courthouse and whip it at the loss of 5 angry people :P.

I notice Novgorod hard at work on a courthouse. I help speed things up a little :P.

Thomas Jones and Todd get upgraded to Grenadiers. However, I am out of cash. Cecil, the one with the most experience, continues on his way. Maybe he can snag more experience.

(2)1760AD: Cathy cancels open borders. Boo hoo. I think it may be time for the civics switch, but we'll see.

Start courts in Madrid. It will actually do something, so go figure. Bank in Kyoto done. Start Jew Temple. Novgorod goes for a harbour. I will have to walk some units over to it later... London starts a theatre. They are no longer pissed and rioting. Nottingham starts courts. But I am 1 population short of being able to whip them. I leave it for now...

(3)1765AD: Cordoba doesn't have a harbour??? Fixing that problem... With rax done, Moscow starts on some rifles for the nearby undefended towns. I put its specialists back to work too.

Hard pressed finding stuff for the workers to do. I don't think it really matters anyways. I chop some jungles for fun.


Had to put the game down for the night here...


I read Drasca's post. Crap! Already promoted Todd and Thomas Jones. Cecil is still a maceman, and he's going in though.

Realize that these Galleys are moving without me having told them to do stuff. I examine the map for Liq's game plan. Ah! He was going to pick up those troops by Drasca's villa to reinforce empty Russian conquests... I'll do that too...

(4)1770AD: Start Rifle in Kyoto. Coriwhatever starts a courthouse. Losing us 11 gold in maintenence, so it's justified. Manchu starts Bud Temple for more happy. Hopefully will end the problem soon anyways.

Chopping around Nottingham. This city will be sweet for commerce. Not that it will really matter.

Ok! Stack with cats has reached Caterbury! Let's move. Cats lower defences to 10%. I want the city now.
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c320/rtchin/conquest-1.jpg

In my haste I lose a conquestador. But we sieze the city and a nice 169 gold pot with it.
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c320/rtchin/canterbury.jpg

The conquests go into the city to heal. Now is a great chance to demonstrate the immense power of the Bigmen! Todd and Thomas Jones are converging on Coventry, with Cecil bringing up the rear with a catapult.
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c320/rtchin/todd-and-thomas.jpg

(5)1775AD: Moving units (mostly boats with workers towards Nottingham). Also finding some Caravals to help cover from Liz's forces.

Thomas Jones and Todd demonstrate WHY they are Bigmen by destroying two of Coventry without artillery assistance. I'm not as good as getting the luck out of these guys, and the wins aren't flawless, but heck, all is good.

(6)1780AD: We've got a lot of ships. Moving them is a pain. Especially when they're not at the front, and our cities aren't massing troops. Will fix that...

Go Cecil! 'Nuff said.
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c320/rtchin/cecil.jpg

(7)1785AD: Nationalism comes in. Applause. I put it on Steel for cannons. In the event that I can take Liz's last city on this snakey continent, I will sue for peace and get Music and maybe some other techs.

Ok, you guys will probably kill me for this... but changing civics to Nationhood and Free Religion. My rationale, combat war weariness. And in the event that war weariness disappears due to peace, the extra beaker output from Free Religion is still nice, as is more happy from a military building (rax).

New civics are working their magic, so I adjust sliders to 50% research and 10% culture. Good to go. Barc is a bit mad, but its stagnant, so who cares?

Liverpool has a Longbowman and a Spearman defending it. This will be easy.

(8)1790AD: Turn of moving stuff. Including more workers. I've got workers in boats moving towards Nottingham for some clearcutting. I'll cancel their movement if they don't get there by my last turn.

(9)1795AD: Finish a Caraval in Drasca's Villa. I name it "Drasca's Sail Barge" :P. Start randomly building riflemen in cities that finish their production, and that I can't think of anything else to make in them.

I used a conquestador with only 2 promotions and a 34% chance to win against the enemy longbowman to soften him up, and he ends up winning. I name him "del Torro". Easy stuff for the second conquest against a spearman. lol. Spearman is so worthless for Liz right now.
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c320/rtchin/conquest-2.jpg

However, it appears we have another problem.
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c320/rtchin/norwich.jpg

I decide to keep the war up, although you guys will hate me, once the next player takes this city, we can sue for peace, build up and destroy Cathy before Cossacks show up. I am much more afraid of Cossacks than Redcoats (go Bigmen!).

(10)1800AD: Conquests uncover Norwich. Take next turn, no challenge. May lose a conquest or two, but who cares right now? Riflemen!

I guess I didn't notice this guy in the turnlog, but now we have a Great Prophet!
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c320/rtchin/holy-man.jpg

Bigmen are sitting around in Coventry. Cecil unpromoted (I was itching to make him into a Grenadier to complete the trio, but I will bow to the wishes of the SG. I won't be the one pissing Liq off by ruining his masterpiece team though :p. Remembers how ndy got 7 of Liq's Cavs killed in FS-1, ouch).
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c320/rtchin/bigman-crew.jpg

Turn Synopsis. Rather slow and piddly warmongering on my part. It was just really a cleanup though. Kudos to those before me that established the giant beachead.

Really, we can do whatever we want now. Nothing stopping us. And I checked with Liz, she won't give us more than 1 tech for peace. Getting music would let us avoid wasting time researching it (not that it matters).

Here's the coveted power graph.
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c320/rtchin/power.jpg

And here's Drasca's domination information. We still have a ways to go on the land. Conquest may be quicker.
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c320/rtchin/domination.jpg

I have some of the newly built rifles loaded up on boats, to send to wherever. One is near Brighton (that ridiculous English town in the middle of our empire). No culture defence on that city, so an easy target.

Personally I think Nationalism and switching to nationhood are :smoke: but since we have such a winning position, and the spiritual trait (no anarchy), we can afford to have quite a bit of :smoke:

Veo, care to bolster our navy with frigates?

Drasca, I greatly respect and value your advice, so would you care to tell me why keeping Beauracracy would've been better than switching to Nationhood? As it stands I see the benefits of +2 happiness in every city (or at least every major one, since we're bashing heads, everyone has a barracks), lower civic upkeep (which is starting to hurt with large amounts of territory), and the freedom and leeway to draft at will.

I did recognize that Representation/Mercantilism was keeping our research afloat with our many specialists, but I could not see why we were still in beauracracy with such a large empire.

EDIT: We'll also be needing Astronomy for those frigates so...

Actually, I'm just grousing from the benefit of hindsight. I didn't really see what sort of happiness problems you encounter, I don't know the situation. I'm simply not a great fan of nationhood most of the time--mainly because I specialize cities and do not have barracks in over half of them and do not have population in the other half. Since we can switch civics at will with limitation of one switch per 5 turns, I don't see a compelling reason 'why not' to go nuts on civic switching to try nationhood when we're winning--although I would like to see you guys actually using nationhood's draft if we're actually going to keep it. Personally, I'd rather have bureacracy and quickly a build wonder or two. Since we're going for nationalism, that might mean taj mahal.

However, I would have liked to see a cost comparison between the +50% commerce/production bonus at our Capital from Bureacracy vs lowered civic upkeep cost of Nationhood and happiness bonus @ cities with Barracks vs 10% culture. The turn I played had a LOT of extra happiness around in our core cities. Conquered cities don't count, that's slave fodder.

We really have two options: Ramp up the military war effort via vassalage, theocracy, facism, etc and forget research completely, or coast along the builders game grabbing observatories, research, and building catapults and rifle while teching our way to victory under this huge economy.

Don't worry about having lowered science %. Our research is based on our TOTAL beakers, which is increased with observatories, conquered pop and development. Even though we are paying more % wise in wealth/maintenence, our research abilities are actually skyrocketing upwards with this giant empire. I even made sure to build banks/markets/courthouses my round to alleviate our net economy.

Bureacracy was mainly to build and take advantage of the huge base commerce and +wealth (banks, markets) and +research modifiers (Uni) at Madrid. A lot of wealth and research came directly from our capital.

Dangit, frigates need astronomy? I want to damn the colossus and build frigates! Of course, I don't value a strong economy... not when I want to go warmonger.

Veo, care to bolster our navy with frigates?
We'll also be needing Astronomy for those frigates so...
How long do we want to put off researching Astronomy for? It could definitely be useful to have Galleons around for superior transport capacity, but would kill the Colossus. Anyways, I can research Steel and Steam Power within my turns, and that will let us build Iron Clads.

We really have two options: Ramp up the military war effort via vassalage, theocracy, facism, etc and forget research completely, or coast along the builders game grabbing observatories, research, and building catapults and rifle while teching our way to victory under this huge economy.
Personally, I'd rather have bureacracy and quickly a build wonder or two. Since we're going for nationalism, that might mean taj mahal.
The Taj Mahal will take us ~30 turns with Bureaucracy, so it's really only any good if we're going to be taking the builder route (and even then, I'd be hesitant if we didn't have so many cities to benefit from the golden age). It looks like we're going to need a group consensus sooner rather than later. I'd prefer going for the all-out war effort mainly because I tend to shy away from it in my personal games, and I could use the experience. I'm fairly open to either path, though.

And for the record, I've got it, and will play either tonight or tomorrow night, as time allows.

Then go bonkers with war! Ignore everything associated with econ. Go nuts on warmongering! Its a race to conquer the world!

Note, even if we do turtle up, it isn't going to be for long. That's mostly to get a few economy and logisitical bandages out of the way. For warmongers, peace means time to assemble a larger army.

Killing colossus isn't such a bad thing. We lose some commerce, but we gain a massive naval advantage--although at this point we don't really need it since the AI is so pitiful when it comes to navies.

I'd consider sticking to bureacracy for fast capital military production. Since we have pyramids from conquering cathy, fascism is a great option if we commit outselves to warmongering. Universal Sufferage / Representation are also decent options, since we have towns. Free speech is extra cash, best if we use this to build a cash supply by zeroing research and then switching to universal sufferage.

I'm all for any plan that gets the opposition killed faster :nuke:.
Don't see a need for more infra at this point, really. For a nice variant within the variant, Veovim could commit to building strictly units within the turnset and see where that gets you. I think we can go for Astronomy by now not for the galleon's fighting ability but the extra cargo capcity too, and get cannons too while you're at it. Faster, pussycat ! Kill ! Kill !

hehe screw building. HC is a mop up, cathy is a joke and lizzy just got @#%@# slapped. Imo get better ships and knock out cathy next as cossasks are bad.

this is a won game and going builder just stalls us.

Faster transports is good.

Cheers!
-Liq

I doubt cathy even has military tradition, or nationalism. If she does, no big deal. She still doesn't have anywhere near our production power.

Any ideas for the next big great game?

I'd be honored to partake in another kipper SG.

for wacky ideas, base it around monarch or emp if the restrictions are not too silly (like we thought rb -10 would be)

Who honestly thought 'slaves, not workers' would be a cakewalk on prince?

toku for leader was one of the ideas for rb 10 right? toku still sounds like fun. The entire closed borders thing is kinda overdone and not that crippling..

How about toku monarch always war - SOFT. By soft I mean not using the in-game "always war" option but rather manually declaring war.

The number one issue I have is about war weariness though in that is "always war" war unhappy free?

What I mean is like if you pick "single city" in the options, the 2 national wonder limit is lifted. Picking a SOFT single city without the game knowing would be MUCH harder than picking the HARD option because of the national wonders.

In hard "always war" the main problem is that the competing civs are all friends. This completely wipes out any of the allowances the setting makes with regards to war weariness.

So how to make a doable Cranky Toku that doesn;t completely hamstring us yet provides a decent challenge?

Toku closed borders emp with ice age map?

sounds so blah! hahahaha.

Cheers!
-Liq

I'd be honored to partake in another kipper SG.

for wacky ideas, base it around monarch or emp if the restrictions are not too silly (like we thought rb -10 would be)

Who honestly thought 'slaves, not workers' would be a cakewalk on prince?

I thought it would be doable, but toku nextdoor actually helped us. Our enemy builder civs actually helped us by not going crazy on war defenses early on. Essentially, we had a blitzkrieg before they were ready. Plus, they had no metals. Our progress would've been a lot slower if cathy had Iron, or bronze for that matter. No way I could've predicted that.

Because of the military weakness of our immediate neighbors, Lizzy's head has rolled before she could rise to too much power.

I really thought our enemy civs would have metals in a reasonable time. They weren't so lucky. Water map slowing their progress doesn't help either.


How about toku monarch always war - SOFT. (snip) Toku closed borders emp with ice age map??

Shall I turn off technology trading too, if you want a soft always war. We can either trade, or not trade. Either's fine with me, because I really just want to see a conquest / domination victory with Toku.

Ice age gimps Tokugawa. He's generally best on maps with some shallow water to take advantage of his organized and expansive. Oooh, just realized aggressive helps drydocks too.

How do you feel about maze maps? They gimp the AI quite a bit, but make the terrain much more interesting to play with.

I've crossposted this idea to the RB SG planning thread. You guys get first dibs the signups slots for a few days.

1800 (0) - It looks like this is going to be the plan: Let Steel complete to get cannons (2 turns), then finish astronomy for galleons (1 additional turn). Once that's done, shut off research, and revolt to some more warlike civics. As builds complete across our empire, I'm going to transfer most cities to rifles, cannons, and galleons. Some jewish missionaries will be thrown into the mix for the theocracy bonus. If we choose to build the Temple of Solomon, it will give us more money too. Whether that's worth it, or if a golden age would be more valuable at the moment is a good question, though, so I'm going to leave the prophet alone for now.

1802 (1) - Kyoto finishes a Jewish Monastery, starts a Jewish Missionary.
Nottingham finishes its Lighthouse, starts a galley (due in 7).
Canterbury finishes its Theatre, starts a granary (due in 7).
We capture Norwich, as expected (no units were lost).
Our troops are pretty spread out through the English island, so I make temporarily make peace:
http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/8492/rb10lizpeace6af.th.jpg (http://img514.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rb10lizpeace6af.jpg)
I'm going to move whatever troops can be spared to London so that they can take out the three nearby English cities (Warwick, Hastings, Huamanga) when war resumes.

1804 (2) - We finish researching Steel, and set it to Astronomy (due in 1).

1806 (3) - Liz wants to trade Divine Right and 30 gold for Replaceable Parts. I decline.
Research on Astronomy completes. The goal is set to Steam Power, in case we ever get there.
Barcelona completes its colosseum, and starts a rifleman (due in 9).
Kyoto finishes the Jewish missionary, and starts another (due in 2).
Manchu Pinko finishes its Harbour, and starts a Galleon (due in 8).

Now, it's time to play with our civics.
I swap Representation, Nationhood, and Free Religion to Police State, Bureaucracy, and Theocracy.
I turn science down to 0, and we have +189 gpt, running 10% culture. Steam Power won't be coming in any time soon (49 turns), but that makes little difference.

1808 (4) - Now Liz wants to trade Spices for Stone. We're going to be taking those from her by force soon enough, so I decline again. I've almost never seen the AI this chatty.
Madrid finishes its rifleman, and begins the Heroic Epic (due in 9).
Seville finishes its Bank, and begins a rifleman (due in 7).
Osaka finishes its Lighthouse, and starts a galleon (due in 5).
Moscow finishes its rifleman, and starts a forge (due in 6).
St. Petersburg finishes its bank, and starts a cannon (due in 9).
Canterbury finishes its Granary, and starts a barracks (due in 4).
Liverpool comes out of resistance, and starts a theatre to be able to work its better tiles (due in 7).
Norwich comes out of resistance, and also starts a theatre to get its food bonus (due in 13).

1810 (5) - Kyoto finishes another Jewish missionary, starts number 3 (still due in 2).
Drasca's villa finishes a rifleman, and starts a cannon (due in 5).

1812 (6) - Cordoba finishes its colosseum, and starts a frigate (due in 4).
Oxford finishes its courthouse, and starts a barracks (due in 5).
York finishes its barracks, and starts a rifleman (due in 10).

1814 (7) - Kyoto finishes its missionary, and starts a cannon (due in 4).
Tower of Zeviz finishes its lighthouse, and starts a barracks (due in 10).
Twinkie finishes its Buddhist temple, and starts a caraval (due in 10). We're making lots of money now, so we can always upgrade it.
Canterbury finishes its barracks, and starts a rifleman (due in 7).

1816 (8) - My notes for this turn mysteriously vanished. Nothing of import happened, anyway.

1818 (9) - Osaka finishes its galley, and starts a rifle (due in 7).
Novgorod finishes its harbour, and starts a granary just because it can't build anything else quickly (due in 15).
London finishes its lighthouse, and starts a barracks (due in 9).
Liverpool finishes its lighthouse, and starts a barracks (due in 4).

1820 (10) - A bunch of cities finish stuff, and they all get set to rifles.


In summary, I made peace with England in order to build a whole lot of troops, and let lots of gold build up to be able to upgrade units. It's about time to put that plan into action. There are a bunch of troops in and around London, though you'll need to upgrade the galleys to be able to transport them all.
http://img461.imageshack.us/img461/8756/rb10londoninvasion3nd.th.jpg (http://img461.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rb10londoninvasion3nd.jpg)
There's also a galley directly south of Brighton (that city in the middle of our lands), with a rifle and a cannon. If you think that won't be enough, there's a galley with some troops near Osaka, and a cannon will be able to be picked up in Kyoto next turn. Let the steamrolling begin!

Really nice 'reload our guns' round Veovim. I'm glad you finally finished Galleons, and grabbing Steel was smooth too. Cannon and Conquistadors. This is going to rock.

Jameson's up! Hey Zeviz, you around and watching? You're on deck.

Got it !

Since I''m a bit unsure about the time I'll have available in the near future, I'm afraid I'll have to pass on signing up for any new SG's for a bit. A pity, because I'm rather enjoying this one :).

Well, I could always put you down as an alternate ;) Have fun with this round!

Inh. turn

First thing I notice is the GProphet whom I instantly use on the Jewish shrine for +27gpt.
Second thing I notice we aren't going to war, we're going to mop up the sad remnants of some defunct domains despairing of their dereliction and decline.
Third thing is I want more troops still, If only to attack the enemy simultaneously at every one of their holdings.

Let's see what we can do about that.

1822 AD (1) Lots of upgrading, positioning.

1824 AD (2) Declare war on Elizabeth again, culture has to go up to 20% instantly.
Land at Newcastle (a coastal city in the cold North, ironically), Hastings and Warwick on the main remaining English isle. A logistics snafu prevented me from landing at Brighton too ( which was undefended 2 turns ago and now mysteriously holds 2 longbows).

1826 AD (3) One down:

http://img418.imageshack.us/img418/2149/rb10thatsone8vh.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Land at Dover and Brighton too.

1828 AD (4) Dover's CG longbow eats a Cover Rifle, Newcastle's Longbow eats another rifle. We'll take Dover, but Newcastle will need some reinforcements.

1830 AD (5) Cecil and Todd look rather the worse for wear after attacking Hastings, but survive. A Conq is not so lucky, and we fail to take the city for another turn.
Newcastle is down to two defenders, but our rifle and conq are a bit hurt there. Another one's joining them shortly.
Another town does go up in flames though (Dover) :

http://img418.imageshack.us/img418/2449/rb10thatstwo8pv.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

We also land at Yakutsk. I hear you ask, but that town isn't English ?
Too right it isn't :D.

1832 AD (6) Bo Jangles makes a rare appearance as Brighton is put to the torch:

http://img499.imageshack.us/img499/7285/rb10thatsfive8lw.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Frigates and cannons help capture Yakutsk:

http://img499.imageshack.us/img499/7264/rb10thatsfour9nr.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

The third of our Bigmen, Thomas Jones, is in bandaids but Hastings is taken too:

http://img418.imageshack.us/img418/8017/rb10thatsthree7yv.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Kill the one-but last defender in Newcastle.

1834 AD (7) Newcastle is finally taken, Start moving on Huamanga too.

1836 AD (8) With some luck, we burn down Vladivostok, 4 star Conq vs longbow on hill in city, at odds of 14 vs 14.4. Unfortunately, there's still a Russian settler/double longbow combo there on the island.
Get the English down to one city by capturing Huamanga ( we did lose a cannon here).

IT The Russians DON'T SETTLE :dance:

1838 AD (9) So when Yaroslavl goes down:

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/2323/rb10thatsnine4sq.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

The Russians are DEAD.

1840 AD (10) Rifle kills one of the two longbows in Leeds, the last English city as far as I can tell,.

Get everything set up for an assault on the Inca, which could well start this turn, but I wanted to leave the next player something to do ;).

We have a Great Scientist next to Madrid who I didn't know what to do with.
Even 30% culture can't keep our cities happy, but if we're lucky and kill the English next turn, it could go back down to zero. You could consider revolting to universal suffrage then and rushbuying some cannons to help with the Inca.
Finally, if you're wondering about all the Explorers garrisoning towns, they're the cheapest cardboard cutouts we have.

nice mopping james. Takes a certain flair to move the troops in fast enough to take out that many towns.

Did we raze half the towns? Cannot get to the save from this pc.

Cheers!
-Liq

I kept most, but razed a few really useless ones. We're in no danger of accidentally 'losing' to domination ( territory only at 48% of a required 66). We can safely keep the Inca towns I think and still win by conquest.

I have to ask for a skip.

Ok, I got it. I'll be able to play tonight, report tomorrow.

Woah, i think this is as close to a RTS style "rush" as i have ever seen in CIV (then again i haven't seen that much).

Rushing Tokugawa and camping on his iron = Major props for audacity and agressive warfare. :clap:

Congrats, you dragged me out of lurk-stalking Sullla/Sirian to say that. ^^

Though withs conquisidors and Izzy, someone really has to do a "Reconquista" SG someday. Izzy drives the heathen muslims from Spainish soil. :lol:

Heh i could see the requirements now. Must have christianity and spread it too all your cities ASAP. Must make Christianity your state religion and controll the holy site for it. Automatically hostile to all Islamic nations. Must controll all land on your starting landmass ASAP, and cannot research Banking unless you do.

For more challenge add in automatically hostile to all Judaic nations and can never research banking. Also must control Judaic and/or Islamic holy cities as well.

Saladin would be a main rival of course, to get as close to historicness as one can. Probably Mansa Musa, Louis XIV, and Lizzy should be in it.... Throw in Kublai Khan too, i never seem to see him Ashoka or Cyrus used. Ooph, forgot, Cyrus is definately a must, and maybe preset him to ally Salaldin?

Ok, I think I spoke too soon yesterday. I have not played this turnset, and I don't think I'm able to tonight.

Liq, S.ilver, if either of you want to take this tonight or tomorrow, go ahead. Otherwise, I'll play and report sunday. Oof, my head is swooning.

I accidentally fell asleep at 1 am (wtf is the world coming to) and well as the sun is coming up, Liq's mind and body is all set to go comatose again.

I have to do merz 02 next then I'll hit the rb10 mop up silver.

I have free time today for all day civ so taking my time on both SG's will be no problem, neither will be short changed.


Well back to my coffin, lest sunlight directly pierce my soul.

Cheers!
-Liq

I can wait :p. Not really a whole lot of time today or tomorrow anyways. Today I have get through a buttload of Calculus homework, and then tomorrow I have to play host at my birthday party. I should be able to play after then, so I estimate, with Liq going after, that I'll be up by Tuesday or something, which is perfect.

hitting turns now.. is mop up fun so not gonna stress over the turns tooooooo much =)

Cheers!
-Liq

preturn: ok bump up culture to 40% to kick in the collosum's happy... all good.. running a mild deficit but np, england going down.

the worker, er slave, north of leeds roading the jungle just cracks me up.

What a freaking KICKASS job james did on setting up the fleet.
I declare war on HC and drop a killer stack off at vilcas hc's best defended town.

Also drop off troops near vilcarumba or whatever, HC has by far the worst names for towns, up there with monty even. Vilcas looks like the only town worth keeping.

lets end this sg!
pumping up the inflated riflemen we have a metric ton of haha. serious we have lets see... 28 effing rifles, 14 galleons 8 frigates 3 grens and a p0 5 cannon 3 cats and wow 12 conqes. hahahahahaha

lizzy has one longbow left.

Rifleman promoted: Combat I
Rifleman promoted: Combat I
Rifleman promoted: Medic I

IBT: oooo see an english caveral

Madrid finishes: Rifleman
Seville finishes: Rifleman
Tokyo grows: 12
Moscow grows: 12
Moscow finishes: Confucian Temple
Oxford finishes: Cannon
Canterbury finishes: Rifleman
Liverpool's borders expand

[1]1842 AD
Madrid begins: Drydock
Seville begins: Colosseum
Moscow begins: Granary
Oxford begins: Granary
Canterbury begins: Market
Yakutsk begins: Theatre
Newcastle begins: Theatre
lots of crap built I just randomly hit builds. like it matters.

get defence down to about 39%ih and who effing cares!

Battle for Vilcas!!!
First up, cookie cutter rifle number one needs to be promoted!
Rifleman promoted: Combat I
Rifleman promoted: Cover
Rifleman defeats (9.80/14): Incan Longbowman

Next, unwrap another toy soldier, damn I got that one already, I wanted skippy the supervirus, not another rifleman!
Rifleman promoted: Combat I
Rifleman promoted: Cover
Rifleman defeats (9.80/14): Incan Longbowman

sigh another rifle, where the hell is skippy?
Rifleman promoted: Combat I
Rifleman promoted: Cover
Rifleman defeats (6.16/14): Incan Longbowman
hmm he took some damage there.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/liquidated/rb10winvilcas.jpg
cleanup!!!!! bo needs some exp!
Grenadier defeats (12.00/12): Incan Quechua
Can dub him littleman bojangles, the medic that could!

Confucianism has spread: Vilcas (Incan Empire)
Confucianism has spread: Vilcas
Captured Vilcas (Huayna Capac) and 134 gold!!! keep it as it has mature villages... oh hell does it matter? it's the principle of the matter. it has a forge and a harbor!


england *had* some nice land. looking at these towns, some sweet real estate.

Battle for vilcagonnagetrazed!
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/liquidated/rb10winvilcawhatever.jpg
eh it's got alot of troops in it, will wait a turn so the troops that landed this turn can fight.

Battle for leeds!
Rifleman promoted: Combat II heals him up nice soooo
Rifleman defeats (4.06/14): English Longbowman
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/liquidated/rb-10winleeds.jpg
Razed Leeds
good riddance england! thanks for the nice towns!

we got another slave. wheee. this entire island was razed haha


nm england popped another town somewhere. where? no idea. lets look for her!


[2]1844 AD
battle for ollyantambo!!!
20% defences so bigman cecil walks in and takes some damage.
Rifleman defeats (12.04/14): Incan Longbowman
bigman todd follows up
Grenadier defeats (8.88/12): Incan Longbowman
Fubar looks for the easy kill and takes damage!
Rifleman defeats (12.74/14): Incan Quechua

hmm out of units and one quiche left... ok I divert a cav to hop over
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/liquidated/rb10winolly.jpg

Conquistador defeats (10.00/10): Incan Quechua
Judaism has spread: Ollantaytambo (Incan Empire)
Judaism has spread: Ollantaytambo
Captured Ollantaytambo (Huayna Capac)
Conquistador promoted: Combat III opps forget!
decide to keep the town as it has some villages as well.

battle for vilcawhatever!!!
what a rock this place is..
get defenses down and our city attack 2 cannon "suicides" with odds haha.
Cannon defeats (8.40/12): Incan Longbowman
wounded rilfe city attack two goes in and takes out a full hp longbow.
Rifleman defeats (6.16/14): Incan Longbowman
3 longbows and 2 quiches!
all damaged soooooo
Rifleman defeats (8.12/14): Incan Longbowman
Rifleman defeats (9.80/14): Incan Longbowman
Rifleman defeats (9.80/14): Incan Longbowman
Rifleman defeats (13.16/14): Incan Quechua
Rifleman defeats (14.00/14): Incan Quechua

easy

Captured Vilcabamba (Huayna Capac)
Razed Vilcabamba
Vilcabamba lost
yay!!

twinkie will take a few turns, no rush

ok lets find lizzy!

nice spot another HC town sigh.


[3]1848 AD
find reading hopfully the last english town.

Battle for twinkie!
get defences to 0 and "suicide a cannon for giggles...
Cannon defeats (3.84/12): Incan Longbowman
longbow and quiche left.
Cecil is FLAWLESS as per normal, this when he's hurt!
a wounded todd is up!
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/liquidated/rb10wintwinkie.jpg
Grenadier defeats (8.88/12): Incan Quechua
not a worthy fight for the bigman

Captured Tiwanaku (Huayna Capac)
Razed Tiwanaku
Tiwanaku lost

good riddance!

[4]1850 AD
finally sink that caveral that was hanging around barcelona..
moving ships over..



[5]1852 AD
yawn



[6]1854 AD
ok THIS is why silver and Liq proclaim the BIGMEN as the lords of CIV4
getting really bored moving ships to kill off towns that are a single longbow and 1 populaion.

reading pops it's culture. A 20% defense I knock down to about 14% so big man thomas jones ends up with the option to attack from ship....
odds are not with the bigman here...
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/liquidated/rb10winreading.jpg
Grenadier defeats (0.48/12): English Longbowman
Razed Reading
ENGLISH ARE DEAD


who da man?

this paves the way to HC's last crap town... without waiting on the main force landing and loading again since they would have had to land next turn.



[7]1856 AD
wow kyoto's forbidden palace saved like 70 gold a turn rofl.



[8]1858 AD
find an HC caveral in the north, I sink it np.

land enough troops to take cuzco but it popped it's 20% culture... got a pack of frigates on hand for just such an occation poof 8% so got 2 active rifles, I start it...
Rifleman defeats (5.04/14): Incan Longbowman
next one doesn;t have such hot odds so stop there.


[9]1860 AD

Battle for Cuzco!
wounded rifle with cover first...
Rifleman defeats (3.50/14): Incan Longbowman
man forgot to lower defences, oh well.
well bigman thomas jones has the honors back from his .48 health healed up with a promotion
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/liquidated/rb10wincuzoverkill.jpg
Grenadier defeats (5.16/12): Incan Quechua
Captured Cuzco (Huayna Capac)
Razed Cuzco
Cuzco lost

HC destroyed!

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/liquidated/rb10winbigman.jpg
The bigman himself standing in the ruins of the Incan Empire... his last known words were

Arrr 'here all em plundar be! 6 bits o gold not gonna git me mor booze.

then again he was drunk and was holding a bomb so no one was quite sure what he said, they were too busy running away.

oh I think this pop-up falls under the CAPTAIN OBVIOUS lines
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/liquidated/rb10winmostpowerful.jpg


IBT:

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/liquidated/rb10winwin.jpg
WE WIN A CONQUEST VICTORY! 1862 AD


watching the replay we founded our second city when the AI had 3 hehe though we owned even cathy in culture. After the cat and mouse game with toku, when we declared war, entire islands fell and they became productive very quickly.



Score 25018 and we displayed the leadership qualities of Augustus Casar!
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/liquidated/rb10winizzywizzy.jpg

the win save so you can watch the replay and see all the charts..


Great game all, seems this variant wasn;t that difficult at all. btw kudos to james for setting up the troops so well, would have never finished the game this round if not for all the ships ready to pounce HC.


Cheers!
-Liq

Hehe, credit again to Veovim and his predecessors who built most of the ships :D. 3 Civs down in under 20 turns !
Brilliant game and finish :goodjob:. Thanks for letting me play !

An inspiring and enlightening game. Many thanks to Drasca and everyone else for letting me play and learn from you.

Wicked Job Liq! Gee, I really thought these civs would be more aggressive, or that Lizzy would have faster tech gain. Cathy allowing open borders was... unexpected, so was their metal deficit. Everything was in our favor, and we ruthlessly took every advantage.

I declare you all graduated from Drasca's academy of Warmongering with honors. Good job you combat fanatics.

I hear izzy is making fun of toku.... thinking toku needs to get back up and tell her what's what! :D

really cannot stress how well a job Veo and James did... other than a frantic search all over the globe for lizzys last town, everything was set up for the roll over. turns out endland and HC were next to one another but took a few turns to find them.

Cheers~
-Liq

Wow, that ended really quickly! Thanks for the great game everyone.

That was a great final war. Very fast destruction of all "lesser" civs. :)

Thank you to Drasca for organizing this and to everybody else for making it such a fun game. :)