How good a neighbor is any individual leader?

Data from the xml "NoWarAttitudeProbs". It looks like Furious is always 0. Perhaps these numbers are then adjusted by your individual relationship modifiers from the diplomacy screen.


Aggressive:
Annoyed 0, Cautious 20, Pleased 80, Friendly 100

Alexander
Catherine
Louis XIV
Queen Victoria


Moderate:
Annoyed 0, Cautious 30, Pleased 80, Friendly 100

Mao Zedong
Montezuma
Qin Shi Huang


Amicable:
Annoyed 10, Cautious 50, Pleased 90, Friendly 100

Bismarck
Genghis Khan
Huayna Capac
Julius Caesar
Kublai Khan
Mansa Musa
Napoleon
Peter
Queen Elizabeth
Queen Isabella
Roosevelt
Tokugawa


Neighborly:
Annoyed 20, Cautious 70, Pleased 100, Friendly 100

Asoka
Cyrus
Frederick
Gandhi
Hatshepsut
Saladin
Washington


Other unknown variables are also involved before the AI decides to attack you. Your military strength, proximity, resources, etc. may also play a large part in the AI's decision process.


Edit: Sorry, I put Asoka in the wrong category. Corrected.

Could you (or someone else) give some further explanation of this. This could be the information supporting the idea that certain leaders are just more likely to attack you, but you have Tokugawa listed under "Amicable" and most people seem to agree that he is a total Xenophobe. what's the deal?

Could you (or someone else) give some further explanation of this. This could be the information supporting the idea that certain leaders are just more likely to attack you, but you have Tokugawa listed under "Amicable" and most people seem to agree that he is a total Xenophobe. what's the deal?


These are just the base starting numbers. As I mentioned there are many other variables. Your individual experience with any particular leader may vary widely as there is a random number generator involved as well. Use this information as a general guideline only.

Remember, I didn't create this data. I only posted what is in the game's code. :)

Here are some of the other variables, taken from the Civ4LeaderHeadInfos.xml file:

Tokugawa:

<iMaxWarRand>100</iMaxWarRand>
<iMaxWarNearbyPowerRatio>100</iMaxWarNearbyPowerRatio>
<iMaxWarDistantPowerRatio>30</iMaxWarDistantPowerRatio>
<iMaxWarMinAdjacentLandPercent>4</iMaxWarMinAdjacentLandPercent>
<iLimitedWarRand>60</iLimitedWarRand>
<iLimitedWarPowerRatio>100</iLimitedWarPowerRatio>
<iDogpileWarRand>25</iDogpileWarRand>
<iMakePeaceRand>40</iMakePeaceRand>
<iDeclareWarTradeRand>40</iDeclareWarTradeRand>
<iDemandRebukedSneakProb>60</iDemandRebukedSneakProb>
<iDemandRebukedWarProb>25</iDemandRebukedWarProb>
<iRazeCityProb>0</iRazeCityProb>

Gandhi:

<iMaxWarRand>400</iMaxWarRand>
<iMaxWarNearbyPowerRatio>100</iMaxWarNearbyPowerRatio>
<iMaxWarDistantPowerRatio>60</iMaxWarDistantPowerRatio>
<iMaxWarMinAdjacentLandPercent>3</iMaxWarMinAdjacentLandPercent>
<iLimitedWarRand>200</iLimitedWarRand>
<iLimitedWarPowerRatio>80</iLimitedWarPowerRatio>
<iDogpileWarRand>100</iDogpileWarRand>
<iMakePeaceRand>10</iMakePeaceRand>
<iDeclareWarTradeRand>40</iDeclareWarTradeRand>
<iDemandRebukedSneakProb>0</iDemandRebukedSneakProb>
<iDemandRebukedWarProb>0</iDemandRebukedWarProb>

I don't know the formula that these variables are plugged into, and there are almost certainly other variables that will have an indirect effect on the probability that the AI will declare war on you (e.g., all the attitude variables that determine how much the AI cares about things like common relgions and civics).

All this really proves is that you should you can never let your guard down around a Pleased AI.

Unless they are Cyrus, Frederick, Gandhi, Hatshepsut, Saladin, or Washington.

Isabella and Julius Caesar are listed as Amicable? :confused: Any time I start next to them they will declare on me if I haven't declared first.

Hell Mao is listed as moderate while kublai khan is also amicable. I'm thinking this field has nothing to do with how much they attack you.

Isabella should be listed as insane.

and Monty as Psychotic.

Genghis Khan and Julius Caesar are amicable? There must be some other variables that are more improtant cause these two will stab my back any time. I had Caesar as my neighbour once, made sure he took my religion and the only negative was '-1 our close borders'. Yet he attacked me just when I was trying to deal with another neighbour - no, they weren't friends, he simply used the occasion. Genghis is the kind of guy that would travel half the world on a continents map just to raze my poorly protected coastal city. True, I didn't respect him enough, but he had plenty of better targets at the time. And I never saw Asoka as ruthless, seemed pretty harmless to me.

Isabella should be listed as insane.

and Monty as Psychotic.

Izzie's not so bad once you get to know her. She's actually a very good ally if you share her religion and fight a war or two together. Monty is indeed a pyschotic insane lunatic, but a useful hired goon if he's on another continent somewhere and you have a decent military.

Izzie's not so bad once you get to know her. She's actually a very good ally if you share her religion and fight a war or two together. Monty is indeed a pyschotic insane lunatic, but a useful hired goon if he's on another continent somewhere and you have a decent military.Yep Izzy is a religious nut! So long as you are good on that or can push Free Religion on the UN you are good with her. Now on the other hand I ended up fighting a caravel war with Monty just because I breathed wrong. And he wouldn't even talk to me for over 20 turns to iniate peace.

I have found Peter as one of the best neighbor to have. Specially if I can spread my religion to him. Hatshepsut is another great one. Catherine, Isabella and Montezuma have always decleared war on me, and Saladin is probably the worst one, because he always gets an early religion...

I usually play as Elisabeth or currently as Inca...
I´m still quite bad with diplomacy. I mean that I make some deals wich make also my friends angry...Compeared to civ3, diplomacy has improved a lot.

Peter is good, solid partner, I find - very open to trade. Hattie's good and easy-going. I find Roosevelt & Lizzie are usually OK too. Alex is the arch-backstabber - but sharing wars with him helps a lot, I've found.

Seeing Izzy and Bizzy under the same heading is funny. I always have problems with Izzy, namely because I also like to get a religon founded and use it's benefits. Bismark on the other hand, I have met in my last two games, and I really like this guy. We always get along good, even if we have different religons, and he will trade techs fairly often. He is a shyster when he comes at you with a trade offer though, and you need to figure out what a fair trade will be. Counter his offer and I have seen him accept more times than not. He is the only one I have had fair trade dealings with. (have yet to run across peter)

current game saw a good funny with Biz. The aztecs declared war on me, and seeing my hands would be quite full, i decided i wanted another civ to distract the flow of aztec troops. I bring up the diplo box and "stop trade" was red, showing "we could not betray our closest friend". But the declare war option was available. He would not stop trading for ANY reason, but gladly declared war for a couple of techs. lol

Biz: We like them, can't stop trading.
Me: how about two techs and you kick his butt?
Biz: he ain't THAT good of friend, ok.

Asoka should be in the neighbourly category, you misread his values.

There are a lot of other factors deciding whether a civ will go to war with you or not. This just tells how useful it is to befriend a civilization. Not how likely they are to go to war.

Asoka should be in the neighbourly category, you misread his values.

There are a lot of other factors deciding whether a civ will go to war with you or not. This just tells how useful it is to befriend a civilization. Not how likely they are to go to war.

It does seem that they won't go to war with you if their value is 100. Tested that in a number of games based on these values.

Alot of other values can influence whether or not you ever get to 100 though. Some leaders put much more importance into religion than others in example. It may even be so that two leaders with 90 have different chances of going to war with you, based on i.e. their agressiveness.

Asoka should be in the neighbourly category, you misread his values.

There are a lot of other factors deciding whether a civ will go to war with you or not. This just tells how useful it is to befriend a civilization. Not how likely they are to go to war.


Thanks. I moved him to the proper category, sorry for the error.

And you're right, there are a great number of other factors that go into modifying these base numbers to determine if a certain leader will go to war with you.

Never trust any of them ever. You never know when or why they may attack. You may have a resource they want, or may have simply turned down their request to change to their favorite civic, you just don't know. Don't trust them = safer.

Izzie's not so bad once you get to know her. She's actually a very good ally if you share her religion and fight a war or two together. Monty is indeed a pyschotic insane lunatic, but a useful hired goon if he's on another continent somewhere and you have a decent military.

I may be one of the few, but I like Izzy. She's a known quantity. Either we share a religion and we're best friends, or we don't and we're going to war. Saladin seems much the same. I think the reason Izzy attacks so often is because she gets the largest religion modifiers. I've had at least a -7 heathen religion modifier with her. It's nearly impossible to get above annoyed with that big of a negative modifier.

There's also a value, from the same xml file, that details how large the religion modifier for a given civ can be. Izzy, and maybe Saladin, had the highest if I remember correctly.

Those numbers make some sense to me, although Genghis and Tokugawa seem a little less than "amicable".

Alexander is the bane of my existence, and he always seems to find his way into any game where I don't select the leaders. I always go out of my way to raze all of his cities to get revenge for things he's done to me in other games.

Cyrus has always been my most loyal ally, although I sometimes have to stab him in the back to keep him from finishing his spaceship. It seems like I have a defensive pact with Cyrus every time he appears on the map.

Perhaps these numbers are then adjusted by your individual relationship modifiers from the diplomacy screen.

You don't seem to understand what these numbers mean. As the name implies (NoWarAttitudeProbs), these are the probabilities (of course, adjusted by other factors, e.g. relative strength) that the leader won't prepare for and declare war on you at a given relationship level.

For example, if Alexander is cautious with you, the probability is 20%.

How the AI feels about you (Furious, Annoyed, Cautious, Pleased, Friendly) depends solely on the relationship modifiers. I don't remember the exact jump points but for instance, 0 is always cautious.

You don't seem to understand what these numbers mean. As the name implies (NoWarAttitudeProbs), these are the probabilities (of course, adjusted by other factors, e.g. relative strength) that the leader won't prepare for and declare war on you at a given relationship level.

For example, if Alexander is cautious with you, the probability is 20%.

How the AI feels about you (Furious, Annoyed, Cautious, Pleased, Friendly) depends solely on the relationship modifiers. I don't remember the exact jump points but for instance, 0 is always cautious.


I've already mentioned that there was far more than just the posted numbers that goes into the AI's decision of whether to attack or not. I have not seen the actual formula, but I did see lots of other variables present under each leaders name that look like modifiers to the base numbers.

My comment was that perhaps (pure speculation on my part), your diplomacy screen modifiers with a particular AI may also be directly factored in, as in you may be 'cautious' with two AIs, but have a -2 with one and a +1 with the other, meaning a 3% adjustment more of a chance for war with the first than with the second even though they share the same 'level' of relationship. The numbers from the diplomacy screen may also just be used to determine the relationship level alone, once again I don't know for sure. Without seeing the formula I can only present my best guess.

I just thought the starting numbers might give people a very basic idea about who may be worth making the effort to befriend, and who you shouldn't waste the trouble on and instead just snub and prepare to attack. :)