Description: Basque Country
Short Desc: Euzkadi
Adjective: Basque

Starting Technologies: Mysticism, Hunting

Unique Unit: Euzko Gudari (Infantry with 2 movement, +10% city defense)

Leader:
Sabino Arana (Aggressive, Spiritual, favors Organized Religion)

Cities: (20 cities within Euzkadi, updated by Txui)
Iruña
Bilbo
Baiona
Donostia
Gazteiz
Donibane Garazi
Maule
Barakaldo
Irun
Tutera
Getxo
Eibar
Miarritze
Barañain
Portugalete
Laudio
Lizarra
Gernika
Agurain
Tolosa

**Be sure to read the readme.txt file for credits and those that helped in this mod!**

Click here to download the file (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/BasqueCountryv1.zip)

Screenshots:

Looks great!

really nice!!

congrats Shqype

Thanks LAnkou ... couldn't have done it without your help with the flag ;)
Kale Borroka, you're also in the readme.txt file for your help as well. Thanks guys :)

great work!!
It's really cool!
I have a question : how do you do with the alpha channels : I can't manage to make them work?

Thankyou So Much!!!!!!

Wonderfull!!!! Oh! I also would like to have my own mod with the Galician civilization! (although it could be understood as a part of celts during the classic era) Is it very difficult to learn to create it? Thanks in advance...

no, it's not...

my advices:
1) look at the tutorials in the tutorial subforum
2) DL a civ (Carthage, Korea or any mod from Anima Croatorum) and inspire yourself with it
3) if you have problem, ask for help in the main forum

korvgubben, ask LAnkou about the Alpha Channels ... he knows that stuff better than I do.

..So how about them Basques?

lot of thanks for the mention ^^

No need to thank me, but it was important to thank you because you helped out and provided information. Perhaps you can play the mod and tell me what you think of it?

I'de like to improve it with your input... and hopefully I can still acquire Order and Select sounds somehow in the Basque language!

yes, i have downloaded the mod now and this night i am going to play

i hope gudaris will be beasts... they costed you a lot of work :(

-->edit to :: i can send you some sounds in basque, lot of friends from there

It's no problem... thank korvgubben for skinning them and creating the unit icon. He's the one that did the work. And it looks great in my opinion...

The Gudari only has +1 movement and +10% city defense ... but maybe I can raise that a little bit .. at least they look cool :cool:

-->edit to :: i can send you some sounds in basque, lot of friends from there
:eek: That would make the mod so much better :goodjob:

Here are the Order sounds for America ... they play in the game when a settler builds a city or a missionary spreads religion:
As you wish!
Move out!
Certainly!
We're on it!
No problem!
Consider it done!
Very well.
On our way!
Let's get moving.
You can count on us.

These are the Select sounds for America. They play whenever you select a unit:
Reporting for duty.
At your service.
Tell me what to do.
Awaiting your orders.
Ready for action.
What's the plan?
Yes?
Your orders...
What do you need?
All present and accounted for.

These are just for ideas ... if you could get some friends to record 4 or 5 Order sounds, then 4 or 5 select sounds, that would be plenty for the mod, and truly make it completely Basque.

:eek: That would make the mod so much better :goodjob:

Here are the Order sounds for America ... they play in the game when a settler builds a city or a missionary spreads religion:


These are the Select sounds for America. They play whenever you select a unit:


These are just for ideas ... if you could get some friends to record 4 or 5 Order sounds, then 4 or 5 select sounds, that would be plenty for the mod, and truly make it completely Basque.

sounds will be recordered with my voice ... my friends are a bit :blush: so they translate them to euskera and i record it

Anything is better than nothing. I appreciate you volunteering to help out :)

i can't see the flag

This should have been fixed in the XML, but maybe it got messed up somehow ...

Go into the ArtDefinesCivilizations.xml file and make sure the bWhiteFlag tag is set to 1 ... if it isn't, then change it. If it is, change it back to 0 to check it out.

LAnkou could provide better assisstance since he fixed the flag, he should know what to do ...

uhm, i have changed the value into 0 but now the flag is green ...
i can't see it :(

I'm really sorry man but I don't know how else to help you. LAnkou made the flag for me so I obviously didn't know how to do it myself... I hope he's able to help you out with it...

well, you are one of the few that has problem with multi colored flag, try changing the alpha channel to white...

how?
i'm very noob modding :S
where's the alpha channel ...?
thanks :)

successful :) now i can see ikuriña (basque flag)

thanks for all

:) Well I'm very happy that this finally worked out.

What are your thoughts on the Gudari? Should the stats be changed?

:) Well I'm very happy that this finally worked out.

What are your thoughts on the Gudari? Should the stats be changed?

i'm really happy with gudari, but some friends of mine thinks movement=2 y really powerfull ... (i wouldn't change it :mischief: )

Naw, it's pretty much on par with the other UUs... hopefully your friends will like it better once I include those custom Basque sounds ;)

Hello everybody, Im new to the forums


Very pleased to see a Basque civilization, seems that not everybody forget us ;)


But I see a couple of mistakes, if you let me to correct them

-The Capital city is Iruñea, not Gasteiz, Iruñea is the historic capital city as Gasteiz is just and administrative capital citi of a divided Basque Country

-Secondly, Euzkadi and Euzko Gudari are writen with S instead of Z, so Euskadi and Eusko Gudari, in the past (as our language was very divided) it was writen with Z or S but nowadays is with S

Alright, I can make Irunea the capital in the next version.

I chose the "z" version instead of the "s" version because "z" is the original version created by Sabino Arana ... being as he is the leader of the civ I chose his spelling. Plus I like originals instead ;)

If yo uhave any other suggestions about the city list or anything let me know. :)

ok I will do it


For example I think that you could include another historic leader as Eneko Aritza or Santxo III

Being as I am not Basque, I do not know enough Basque history. This was originally made as a request by Dawntreader. Others helped me as well.

I originally wanted to include "Sancho" III but from what I understood he was a Spaniard. Perhaps I am wrong, but I decided not to include him as a Basque leader since the Basques aren't Spanish and might have been offended by such a thing.

If you can give me the names of leaders you want to include and history + specifications (2 leader traits + favorite civic) and a picture then I could incorporate them into the next version with the Basque sounds BlackEye was kind enough to record for me.

All right


I will try to do something

Being as I am not Basque, I do not know enough Basque history. This was originally made as a request by Dawntreader. Others helped me as well.

I originally wanted to include "Sancho" III but from what I understood he was a Spaniard. Perhaps I am wrong, but I decided not to include him as a Basque leader since the Basques aren't Spanish and might have been offended by such a thing.

If you can give me the names of leaders you want to include and history + specifications (2 leader traits + favorite civic) and a picture then I could incorporate them into the next version with the Basque sounds BlackEye was kind enough to record for me.

Actually talking about 'Spain' in the time of Sancho III 'the Great', king of Navarra, in the XIth century, is ridiculous. There was no such thing as Spain at that times. It would be arguable even that there was such a thing as Spain until the late XVth century, or even up to the early XVIII century, in some ways. There were basques, though, and they were at that time in what was the kingdom of Navarra. And Sancho was the king, indeed, so it's an appropiate leader choice.

If you mean that Sancho was of a Castillian dinasty (and was the origin of the Jimenez, the most famous Castillian dinasty in the middle ages), you are right. But dinasties/people were a very different thing in the middle ages. Richard the Lionhearted was occitan (southern france) first, norman second. But he was an English king, and nobody would say otherwise.

If I would choose two traits + favourite civic for Sancho III, I would choose Agressive + Expansive (he did unify all the Christian kingdoms in Iberia at the moment, and he did seem to have good policies of repopulation). Civic, I would choose either Hereditary Rule or even better Vassalage (just to be a bit original)

Now, unfortunately, I have to get a bit in the muddied political waters.

A majority of basques are Spanish right now. I don't think they should be offended by a fact. Some of them might wish to change it, but even then, there's a current reality now going on. Wishing has nothing to do with facts. If you are offending the type of guys that would be offended by this type of thing, it would be the same of worrying about offending Al-Qaeda and their support base in the muslim world. That is, you should really not. In the same way, getting that type of view of the basques is like thinking all muslims are supporters of Al-Qaeda.

This is now a personal recommendation. If you are not basque, though, you should be careful before making certain statements, specially considering that you seem to be supporting certain (false) propaganda supported by a terrorist group.

Said that, I think a Basque civ mod is a great idea. Somebody should add a Catalan / Kingdom of Aragon one, too :).

I am making a civ under King Alfonso of Aragon for a scenario of mine during the 15th century.

Basques != Spanish. They are 2 separate people. I was not sure of Sancho III, which is why I did not include him.

Your Al-Qaeda comment is not really relevant. A majority of Basques may live in a Spanish state, but that does not make them Spanish ... they still have their Basque culture and customs which differ from those of the Spanish.

I was careful not to offend them because as an Albanian with parents born under a Montenegrin state I would be offended if somebody called me or my parents Montenegrin.

I am making a civ under King Alfonso of Aragon for a scenario of mine during the 15th century.

Basques != Spanish. They are 2 separate people. I was not sure of Sancho III, which is why I did not include him.

Your Al-Qaeda comment is not really relevant. A majority of Basques may live in a Spanish state, but that does not make them Spanish ... they still have their Basque culture and customs which differ from those of the Spanish.

I was careful not to offend them because as an Albanian with parents born under a Montenegrin state I would be offended if somebody called me or my parents Montenegrin.

There are at least 50% of the Basques that feel Spanish (and of the rest, they feel it in different degrees, except the independentist minority), including several friends of mine, and your comment would be found highly insulting and degrading to them. You simply do not have the faintest idea of what you are talking about. I don't have any idea about the Albania/Montenegro situation, thus I express no comments about the matter, but seemingly your complete lack of knowledge does not impede you to do the same.

"Basques != Spanish. They are 2 separate people."

This, so everybody can read it, is a racist comment.

I have a friend in Euskadi. His father was killed by people who said that basques were not Spanish, and as his father and his family, who were basques 100% said so, they shot a bullet right into his head. You insult his memory.

I have a friend in Euskadi. His father was killed by people who said that basques were not Spanish, and as his father and his family, who were basques 100% said so, they shot a bullet right into his head. You insult his memory.

we must separate politic and game ...

if anybody was offended,they can choose not to play

this is a free world :)


very great job shqype ;)

we must separate politic and game ...

if anybody was offended,they can choose not to play

this is a free world :)


very great job shqype ;)


Well, he does not. Did you see me posting anything when this was a mod? Nope. Basque civilization is neat. Why not?

I posted because he did not 'separate politic and game' in post #31. From the moment he posted a political statement ("since the Basques aren't Spanish and might have been offended by such a thing") he invited political debate. From the moment he uses the propaganda of a terrorist group, men who murder people because of their ideology, he desserved to be reminded of this fact, and to be reminded that there are people who were killed because of saying the kind of thing he denies.

It's the same as if he was denying the holocaust. Not such a popular theme. But down there, in its very root, is practically the same.

This is a free world indeed. There is such a thing as free speech. And, because there is free speech, there is such a thing as free response.

To say that the only people who believe Basques are not Castillians (ie, Spanish, I think this is what he was trying to say) are terrorists is just as "offensive," as whatever you're taking issue with, in my opinion. Basque political opinion fluctuates and its difficult to measure when the Spanish government goes to great lengths to suppress leftist Basque nationalists who are interested in more than autonomy, but there are many who do not support violence that do support a non-Spanish and non-French Euskal Herria. There are also a number of Basques who see themselves as Basque, not Spanish, but are more conservative. This is why the Basque country has its own autonomous police and government (whatever one's opinion of those institutions). So cut the crap about terrorists.

Furthermore, ETA has abandoned killing as a political tool and is attempting to forge a truce with the Spanish government, who refuses to comply and continues to torture and murder Basque activists (not Etarras!). So stop trying to play the sympathy card about your friend's dad (why did they kill him, out of curiocity?). Death is sad, but it hasn't been one sided by any means and ETA did more than anyone else to undermine the Fascist regime.

Basques do not equal Spanish.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basques

The Basques are a distinct people separate from the Spanish. They do not speak a Romance language (like Spanish) but their own distinct Indo-European language. My intent was not political oriented, and really has no place in this thread. My comment did not refer to a political stance and an opinion of a Basque today about whether he considers himself Spanish or French, or neither, but that his ancestors were not Spanish or French and that should be known and respected.

Whether a Basque feels that times have changed and he wants to be a member of the state he is under, that is up to him. Whether he opposes that state and wants to be recognized for his distinct Basque heritage, that is up to him as well. But I will represent the Basque people through this game's civilization by providing sounds in their language, not Spanish or French.

the Spanish government, who refuses to comply and continues to torture and murder Basque activists (not Etarras!).

This is a plain, and simple LIE. And a miserable one. I dare you to bring these issues from an external, unbiased site (a New York Times article and the likes would be a valid source, for example).

And this is coming, so everybody should know from a guy called "Kale Borroka" who, for the information of the other posters is the way the 'young base terrorism groups' of ETA is called in Basque, the ones that help the terrorist organization to mark victims for death, identify their habits for better and safer killing, and also, the ones that stone the cars, do anonymous death menaces through painting them on the non-sympathizers front doors, etc.

About the Spanish government killing basque activists, the only example that can be provided was a group of Spanish politicians in the 80's that tried to organize an opposing terrorist group called 'GAL' to turn grounds on 'ETA', specially since it seemed that they could find a safe haven in France. Spanish law uncovered this organization and brought the responsible to prison, in the exact same way that the ETA terrorists who are caught and condemned after a trial are taken to prison. ETA has stopped seemingly killing for the last two years, but it is really unclear that they have stopped doing so because they feel the basque oppinion will rather be repulsed by further killing than out of any good free will, since they indeed have not stopped painting 'targets' in the opposing politicians houses, keep trying to extort money from Basque enterprise owners (they call it 'the revolutionary tax'), and keep terrorizing the streets of Euskadi when they feel like it.

Shqype:

I agree that basques are indeed a different people. But saying the basques that live in Spain are not Spanish is preposterous. But it has no sense to say that they are a different people from Spanish.. because Spanish is not an ethnic denomination in Spain (although it is indeed a ethnic denomination in the US, for example, but they do refer to different groups), as Basque might be. Basque are indeed different from Castillian, Basque are different from Catalan, Basque are different from Galician... but it has no real sense comparing, Basque and Spanish because they refer to different fields. There is a minority of the Spanish Basques that want independence and their own state. Well, good for them... as long as they don't kill or hurt anybody, in any way.

What I understood is that you took great pain to not do something that offended people, or so you said. Well, what I am telling you is that you seem to take a great deal to not offend the basques who do not feel Spanish. But you don't seem to care about the basques who might feel Spanish, and who have taken such a death toll for their beliefs (and a far, far greater death toll than, since the end of the dictatorship, who *everybody* in Spain suffered, basque or not, comparred to the Basques independentism).

My dad's friend by the way, died quite some time ago. He was a low ranked politician in a small basque town that was member of a non independentist political party. For what he told me, he was just having a cup of coffee in a bar with his friends. Then a masked man just walked behind him, aimed a gun at the back of his head and shot him dead, spraying with blood his friends. I hope you will understand now why I do feel concerned when I see somebody making such statements in an otherwise innocent environment.

By all means, by the way, don't abandon this mod. Just don't make political statements as you have done, which I would beg you to retire. As I said it is a good idea building up a basque civilization for Civ IV. By the way, Alfonso V is a sad choice for a catalan civ, since he was castillian... if you would think about it, a much better choice would be Alfons II, Jaume I or Pere III. Pity it was a XV century scenario, anyway.

Myself, I would not mind that we catalans would have their own autonomous state inside a European Union (that's how much Spanish I feel myself, eh?), but, the thing is that there is not an active terrorist organization that is currently in Catalonia but there is one an Euskadi that taints any such claims in that same direction. Who has not stopped producing bad damage on innocent lifes.

This is a plain, and simple LIE. And a miserable one. I dare you to bring these issues from an external, unbiased site (a New York Times article and the likes would be a valid source, for example).

Basque news is rarely picked up by US news outlets unless it is something major, so I doubt the death of a 22 year old at the hands of Basque police would raise an eyebrow. In anycase, there is a great deal of information on the Dirty War and Spain's frequent use of torture in their prisons. Look it up. I can also provide some names, if you'd like.

And this is coming, so everybody should know from a guy called "Kale Borroka" who, for the information of the other posters is the way the 'young base terrorism groups' of ETA is called in Basque, the ones that help the terrorist organization to mark victims for death, identify their habits for better and safer killing, and also, the ones that stone the cars, do anonymous death menaces through painting them on the non-sympathizers front doors, etc.

Utter nonsense. "Kale borroka" simply means "street struggle" in Euskara and is in no way linked to ETA. The Spanish government claims it is linked to ETA, but there is nothing to back this up and it serves only to delegitimize genuine youth struggles for freedom. This same government has also claimed a number of language assoications, youth houses and other non-political or similar spaces and groups as being ETA. It's all nonsense to further the Spanish government's desire to suppress Basque nationalism. Furthermore, Etarras don't mark anyone for death since ETA hasn't used political killings in two years.

Though I've never been shy about my politics, I am an ezker abertzale. I have my sympathies for ETA, though I disagree on some ideological and tactical points.

About the Spanish government killing basque activists, the only example that can be provided was a group of Spanish politicians in the 80's that tried to organize an opposing terrorist group called 'GAL' to turn grounds on 'ETA',

This is one example, but certainly not the only one. The state itself has had no problem torturing them and killing them when it feels the need and nobody is ever brought to justice for those acts.

Now I must be getting to class though. Gora Euskal Herria!

Edit: double post.

I don't know if it's allowed to talk politics in the forum, but Im not going to enter in a politic discussion, I just told you that here in the Basque Country the people who feel Basque is a majority over those that feel Spanish, and that everyone here know many terrible histories in both sides.


Talking about the Civ, you can include another emblem instead of the Basque flag, for example the shield of Navarran Kingdom, which is more historic.

I'm not sure of the rules, but if the political talk is a problem, I'm happy to continue this discussion through private messages or in another forum. :)

Txui has made a good point. Regardless of the political stance of Basques, I am maintaining that they have separate roots and thus should be represented by those Basque roots instead of any other kind, ie Spanish or French.

The shield of the Navarran kingdom might look interesting, I'll see if I can do anything with it.

If you get a chance Txui, a corrected in-order city list would be nice :)

If you get a chance Txui, a corrected in-order city list would be nice :)


I will do it

The Basques are a distinct people separate from the Spanish. They do not speak a Romance language (like Spanish) but their own distinct Indo-European language.

Actually, the Basques don't speak an Indo-European language. Basque (Euskara) is a language isolate, with no proven relations to any other language. It may be a relic of pre-Indo-European times; at any rate, it is not Indo-European (though it has certainly borrowed from them).

Just a concerned language geek.

BTW, I don't think it is a good idea to taint those considering the ethnic/linguistic/historical distinctiveness of the Basques by linking them in any manner with a terrorist group. To put forth an analogy, an Irish civ claiming Irish as distinct from English would probably not be controversial, though the IRA also espouses this view, and many in Northern Ireland would disagree. (The Basque situation is different, of course, but saying that Basque = Spanish is quite a bit of a stretch, especially as the term Spanish usually denotes Castilian (or a related dialect), not merely a group living under Spanish sovereignty).

Thank you for clearing that up for us Tigranes II.

Speaking of the Basque language, I now have completed incorporating the Basque Order and Select sounds into the mod... BlackEye was nice enough to send them to me, and the new version was recorded by Karoch. All I'm waiting for is a corrected city list from Txui and then I'll release the updated version of the mod.

waiting for... ^^

List sent, sorry for beeing a bit late but I have been the weekend out


Here is it:

Iruña
Bilbo
Baiona
Donostia
Gazteiz
Donibane Garazi
Maule
Barakaldo
Irun
Tutera
Getxo
Eibar
Miarritze
Barañain
Portugalete
Laudio
Lizarra
Gernika
Agurain
Tolosa

I updated the city list, and added the sounds. I want to make this the last release, and would rather have it complete... so there is still room for another leader. Let me know who you think should be added as a second leader (or if there should no 2nd leader at all), so I can release this final version of the civ.

Well, the new version is now available with an updated city list and Basque Order and Select sounds.

Hello everibody!
Hmmm it seems that there's a lot of Spanish people in civfanatics!
I would like to separate two different things:
1) The game: I don't care to include a Basque civ, as I don't care to include Scottish, Wales or Occitania. This is an historical game. But, in my opinion, the game doesn't need more minor civs, because it could be neverending.
2) Political discussion: This's not the place to discuss it, but the Basque situation IS NOT the same that the Irish problem, for example. Navarra was bigger that the nationalistic Basque Country is, included parts of Aragon and Castilla. So please leave king Sancho apart. Also, the language in the Kingdom of Navarra was not the Basque, but a romance dialest similar to spanish. The Basque language (wich I respect) is mix of different languages spoken all around the Basque country, created by Sabino Arana.
So, in my opinion, there's not an historical "Basque Country"
BUT I RESPECT THEIR PEACEFULL RIGHT FOR INDEPENDENCE!!!
Respect is the key for a peacefull country.
One more thing: please excuse for my bad (horrible) english

Political discussion: This's not the place to discuss it, but the Basque situation IS NOT the same that the Irish problem, for example. Navarra was bigger that the nationalistic Basque Country is, included parts of Aragon and Castilla. So please leave king Sancho apart. Also, the language in the Kingdom of Navarra was not the Basque, but a romance dialest similar to spanish. The Basque language (wich I respect) is mix of different languages spoken all around the Basque country, created by Sabino Arana.
That is completely false. Basque is a distinct language, not a mixture of other languages. I know some of the southern Balkan Slavs tried to claim the same thing about the Albanians (that there was no such thing as Albanians or an Albanian language, that they were a mixture of various ethnic groups and languages), in order to destroy the legitimate claim to Albanian land. The reality is, the Albanian language is derived from the Illyrian language: Regarding the Albanian language, more than 1/3 is pure, undisputed Illyrian, 1/3 is disputed Illyrian/Pelasgian, and the remainder is a mixture of ancient Greek and Latin, Celtic, Slavic, Italian, and Turkish.

Speaking about my own language and people, I understand the situation of the Basques.

Although geographically surrounded by Indo-European languages, Basque is believed to be a language isolate. It is not an Indo-European language.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basque_language

A language isolate, in the absolute sense, is a natural language with no demonstrable genealogical (or "genetic") relationship with other living languages; that is, one that has not been demonstrated to descend from an ancestor common to any other language. They are in effect language families consisting of a single language. Commonly cited examples include Basque, Ainu, Burushaski, and Korean, although in each case a minority of linguists claims to have demonstrated a relationship with another language (see Dene-Caucasian, Karasuk, and Altaic, for example).

With context, a language isolate may be understood to be relatively isolated. For instance, Albanian, Armenian, and Greek are commonly called 'Indo-European isolates'. While part of the Indo-European family, they do not belong to any established branch, but instead form independent branches of their own. However, without such a disambiguating context, "isolate" is understood to be in the absolute sense.

Some languages became isolates in historical times, after all their known relatives became extinct. The Pirahã language of Brazil is one such example, the last surviving member of the Mura family. Others, like Basque, have been isolates for as long as their existence has been documented.

Sabino Arana did not create the Basque language, he just created some words for the Basque language because he didn't want to use Spanish or French words. They are called "neologisms."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_isolate

to Lucius Sulla:
Bravo & Olé

to Kale borroka:
I am amised that a ignorant like you even knows how to speak in english, when in school the asignature to learn all day is to hate your spanish brothers because of horrible acts of aggression and cruelty against people you dont even know from stories that dont even have a single spot of evidence and just never happend. Well ive been insulted, kicked, and pointed with arms just because of totalitarian-basque pricks like you with so much less culture and logic that follow blindly the interests if some pervert who masturbates with sabino arana at nights and just seeks to obtain power, influence and... guess what you stalinist pig... MONEY!!
It is interesting that the hipocrasy of you guys have made you want independence from Spain, when it was Spain, with all the leaders you hate, Franco, Felipe Gonzalez, Aznar, Azaña etc until Isabel II who have constantly been sending money to just 3 regions in spin form the taxes of all th ecountry. Guess what regions? Yes, Cataluña, las Vascongadas (el pais vasco? eso no existe) and Madrid. Just think that the first railway in Spain went from MAtaro to Barcelona and the first highway destination was ofcourse to San Sebastian. After been receiving money for more than 200 years, what was suppose to be diversifed through the whole of Spain because the whole os Spain payed for the taxes you keaped, you want independence. What a surprise. Now that regions liek Andalucia and Extremadura have been sacked and its time to pay back the favours from the past, you just close up and think of the money and seek independence so not a single euro flees of our corrupted and bloody arcs. And u call yourslef leftist? Your a discrase to the Vascongadas, to Spain, and to the whole humanity.
It is very sad that people like you, and people that tolerate you guys still live between us. Like some philospher said of Hitler :
The bad people only triunph when the good people do nothing.
By the way, and against what most of europe, the world and spain thinks, we basques that are and want to still be spanish are a very significant percentage of the population, more than 50%, but as we are some how wealthy, we prefer to shut up as cowards because we have many things to lose, and so we get dominated by some stupid acneic adolescent creature who defines himself as a martyr and follows a pervert leader seeking money to kill his brothers, we let them push us, hit us, insult us, dominate us, and point weapons to our faces so we help them become another stalinist socialist republica with forced labour, death camps and all the totalitarian-communistal parafernalia stuff some other "characters" such as lenin/stalin pol pot ho chi min somoza mao etc already planned.
Please learn, read, start thinking by yourself and try losing the brain wash your in.

to shqype:
Read, and talk only when you know what your talikng about and how your talkign about. What you said is insulting and proved yourself a very ignorant person. Some thing goes to the prototerrorist of before.. what an *******.
Sad but True.
VIVA ESPAÑA, VIVA LAS VASCONGADAS :mad: :mad: :mad: :crazyeye: :mad: :mad: :mad:

OK, so what are "las vascongadas"? Is this just a different word for el Pais Vasco or does it mean something else?

Hello all. I have just arrived in this forum. Sorry if my English is not totally correct.

First off, I have to say that I am totally freaking out about this topic. How can it be possible that in a game forum to take place a political discussion? I can't believe it. Just focus on the game, not on other stuff like this that is just getting everybody upset.

Second of all, I am Basque (I'm from Araba, south county of Euskadi) and, of course, I know what's going on about all this stuff. So I have some points to make clear in order to end up with all this:

1) Varela, at least you should have some respect for everybody. Sure everybody have a different opinion about an issue, but that's not ecuse to be disrespectful. Plus, I don't know what problem you have with basque people. You should think: all for the country. But think this: have you gained something from the country to be so loyal at it as you seem to be? I mean, you have to be from the place you wanna be, because you belong to that place, being respectful with other people who don't feel that way.

2) Which counties (NOT countries) do you think are the richest of Spain? Sure, Euskadi, Catalunya (Catalonia) and Madrid. In Euskadi I can say that it became rich (at least in the 20th century, before that I can't say because I don't know) that with the ammount of industries that set up in here (e.g. "Altos Hornos" of Bilbao). Just in order to make you wonder.

3) I have some stuff to desagree about the basque as well. I consider myself basque too but what I don't and can't understand is that some people support violence. That's the only wrong thing I can say about basque people.

4) Other stuff, but related to the point 3. TV has spread a lot of information about the basque problem. In my opinion they have overreacted and a lot. I know that it is important to stop with violence, but have you ever noticed (at least in spanish TV) that it has much more importance for TV programs the basque violence than other kind of violence, for example in Madrid? It is amazing how many murders are in the capital. A lot more than ETA has made. But TV prefer to focus on basque violence (e.g. a telephone box burnt, or a car burnt) than the murders than have occur in other place which hardly ever appear on TV. A clear example happened few years ago: lots of cars were burnt in Valencia in a weekend (I don't remember why), few days later a car burnt in Euskadi and it called it Kale Borroka (for the ones who don't know about this, is the name of urban violence of euskadi). Weren't the events of Valencia more important than a car burnt? When a fact happens in euskadi which happens lots of time all around Spain and the world TV just focus on the ones of Euskadi in order to create more tenssion.

5) TV has never been impartial with this facts of the point 4. Its influence is so huge that I went on vacation to the south of Spain, I told I was from Gasteiz, and people asked me if I were a member of ETA. Do you think that people are seeing the problem objectively? I don't think so.

6) Varela told that a lot of people who live in Euskadi feel themselves as spanish. OK, I agree with you, but you should tell why and where. It most happens in Araba and Nafarroa (Navarra) (The counties on the south of Euskadi). However, there are increasing the basque people in here. In Gipuzkoa and Bizkaia it doesn't happen (or if it happens, much less than in the south). Why does this happen? It's easy. In Franco's time (the dictator) Spain after war was poor. Plus, in Euskadi it was a resistance against him feeling themselves basque. So, he set up industries in here (as I said before "Altos Hornos" of Bilbao) and a lot of people from all around Spain went here to get a job mixing the basque feeling with lots of "foreigners" decreasing the basque feeling as he wanted. It affected to the basque language (Euskera) as well, almost making it disappear. He ordered to kill anybody who was talking in Basque!! Can you imagine? Now, who was the killer? Luckily, Basque laguage has recovered and it's growing again.

Apart from the political issue, I have another points to comment:

7) Someone has told that Iruña should be the capital of Euskadi. I disagree. As you said, the name Euzkadi began to appeared with Sabino Arana, OK. In that time the capital (I don't know official or not, I can't say it for sure) was put on Bilbao (Bilbo in euskera) and after the civil war of Spain it was removed being just one capital, Madrid (Spain's capital). After the dictator died, the new capital of Euskadi (now with S) was set in Vitoria-Gasteiz (official name of the city, Vitoria in spanish and Gasteiz in euskera). Iruña (Pamplona in spanish) was just the capital of Navarra (Navarre in english and Nafarroa in euskera, it's a county of Spain now). In the past the basque country was in Navarra, OK, but that would be Navarra, not EUZKADI. If you talk about Euzkadi the capital can be Bilbo or Gasteiz (the capital nowadays), not Iruña. That's what I think.

8) About the Basque language: it is NOT a mix. It is unknown the procedence of the language but it is not a mix. It has evolved as all languages have done. Plus, it is demostrated that it's the most difficult language to learn followed by mandarin chinese. So, people who know this beautiful language: be proud of it! (I am one of these too, hehehe :lol:) In general, be proud of all the languages you speak.

I think I haven't forgotten anything but if I remember something I will reply again. If I have hurt anybody with these post it wasn't my intention, I wanted just to make clear some stuff you have written. If I am wrong in something please post something too. Thank you all for reading this.
Peace and happiness for all :goodjob:

Acid86, thank you for posting. I appreciate you defending your Basque people; I too respect them and can understand where they're coming from.

I'm thinking of converting this mod to Warlords compatibility :)

PS- I also speak an ancient, beautiful language that is difficult to emulate. Welcome to the club :)

Why your defending Basque people and not Corso people, or Provenzal people, or Alsatian people?
Why the peoples subjugated by the France are not never named?

Italicus, I don't know about those people, but I do know a little bit about the Basques. Needless to say, there are people all over the world that may not have adequate representation and are unfortunately subjugated by greater powers. Sadly, that's how it is.

On a slightly less political note... The skin on the UU looks great, Shqype, and so do the civilopedia entries. I honestly don't know much about the Basque people, Euskadi or Euskara (pardon the spelling) but I think I will do reading into it now.

Thank you Shibby :)

Never read that post before... But it seems it would have been better if I had never done so.

Don't you see that's a terrible problem? Don't you see that the matter is that you don't only hurt people sensibility or patriotism, but you hurt them directly?
Would any of you be proud if other people would talk such things of your nation? And for what is more, if those things are half lies? Did you know that more than 1000 people have died, another 65.000 have been injured or are under treatment and more than 100.000 have been forced to leave their homes? Did you know that in the 21th century, in a little region of Spain democracy is not the law and you can be shot just because a tiny minority decided 40 years ago to invent a different reality?

I have been to many marchs against ETA, against fascist-murderers, and against those who think that some have powers to impose things to the majority. And I'm sick of all those who insult my country, show a bit of respect, please, everyone is proud of his roots and his nation, everyone, so don't act as an ignorant and be quiet on those things you don't know, as when you talk, you make public your ignorance. And in that subject, that ignorance really hurts.

Quiza algún día mi país se vea libre de neofascistas encapuchados, de tiros en la nuca y de falta de libertad. Quizá. Por España.

I'll be updating this civilization to Beyond the Sword compatibility.

Long live Euzkadi!

Mhhh and that's for being happy isn't it?
That's pretty nice that SCI-FI civ you just invented. With all those gudaris killing free people, those leaders, and with all those things you kept saying all over the threads. It's a pitty i don't have a clue of modding, because i'm thinking of a new civ you might like: Montenegro. Maybe I'll start modding some day, will let you know when i create that civ. Like it?

Montenegro already exists and has already been created. Too bad it's the Spanish that were killing innocent Basques and Gudaris, though.

And your signature "yag si epyqhs" is very immature and just indicative of your kind.

But how on earth am i supposed to explain you that? For heaven's sake would you like to listen? Have you re-read all the lies and . .. .. .. . you've saying? And Spain killing people? What the hell are you saying? I've got close family friends who lost their lives because of ETA, You think that is funny? Do you think you, ignorant and as have been proved, can laugh at an entire country just for fun? This is the third time i say that: The problem of being ignorant and rude is that you may hurt other people's feelings.

Now look at it from my point of view. You wouldn't like your country to be insulted but the most important, you wouldn't like people to die, nor you friends, and nor would you like to face them and live with murderers.

I never minded someone created that civ, as any region can be turned into a civ in CIV, but it is what you have put, what you have written and what you have said which have led us here. I think it is you the immature and the ignorant, please get a bit information on it, and then you'll see you where wrong and immoral. That's too serius matter to being writting without a clue of what you are saying.