Hi all...

I have been seeing a number of new players hit the forum asking some pretty good questions for getting started w/ Civ3 and decided to try and run a SG game of my own.

Anyway, if you're playing strictly Cheiftan or Warlord and are having a tough time of it or are managing to scrape out a win in 2048AD then feel free to join.

I would like to play either a small or standard map, continents or pangea, average settings, and sedentary barbs.

As for the level I think we should play Regent to demonstrate how winning at this level is not at all difficult. Anything you pick up at this level will transfer to any Cheif or Warlord game.

As for what Civ to play I'm wide open. Agricultural, Commercial, Industrious, Seafaring, Scientific and Militaristic are all good traights. Expansionist just doesn't do it for me but if ya'll just love to play as Abe then I'm good with that.

Roster:
jb1964 (Yes, I'm 41 years old, my son's play as well and they're 14 and 13.)
open
open
open
Maybe open

I would like to play. But I should warn you that i play at monarch, so if that would keep me out, im fine with that too.

If nobody else is interested then I'll change the theme to something aimed at a ridiculously fast win and we'll be off.

It seems strange but lately I have seen quite a few post from people that have obviously just purchased the game and seem frustrated. Nothing helped my game more than a few SG's.

I normally play at Monarch as well. I play too quickly to make the jump to Emp. But when playing as SG I like to play at Emp or higher because I'll take the time to make efficient moves.

Croydon Hills - Is that near Sydney?

How about Emperor then? It might attract a few more players than Regent. I'd personally prefer a standard 70% continents map, with average climate age and temp. Sed barb as well. Maybe play as the Zulu? Bad traits and bad UU could make for an interesting time.

If nobody else is interested then I'll change the theme to something aimed at a ridiculously fast win and we'll be off.
You can change the variant to AW, and jump to higher difficulty ;)

How about Emperor then? It might attract a few more players than Regent. I'd personally prefer a standard 70% continents map, with average climate age and temp. Sed barb as well. Maybe play as the Zulu? Bad traits and bad UU could make for an interesting time.

I hate the Zulu w/ the intensity of a 1000 suns. Sounds good to me.

Will let another day go for interest in the seriouly newb game and then mutate this beast.

good luck, JB, on this first (or third) born :D
will look in.

I'm giving up on this one due to a severe lack of interest from rookies.

I'm really sorry to see it didn't fly, jb. :( A year ago I was hanging out in this forum just waiting for a game at a level low enough to get started. I'd have given anything to find one just like this.

I'm really sorry to see it didn't fly, jb. :( A year ago I was hanging out in this forum just waiting for a game at a level low enough to get started. I'd have given anything to find one just like this.

Ditto for me, except it was just a couple of months ago. I get a lot out of reading the training games, and I play at Emperor level.

Give me a week and maybe we can come up with something.

@gmaharriet, How high of a level would you like to play?

It sounds like we could get azzaman333 & McLMan interested.

You could post a link in the general discussion folder to this. Most inexperienced played appear not to have found this page. Since it's one level deep it's a bit hidden. I expect it will draw more players.

More popular are emperor training games, because people usually can move to Regent without problems. Good idea, nerovats, thread in S&Tips or GD forum will attract more people

OK, I took your advice and tossed out a link and a note in the Civ3 General Discussion forum.

We'll see who that draws in.

It took me quite a while to come up to speed on Civ3 and I actually joined an Emp and DG game thinking I would embarrass myself. Luckily there was enough good communication that I managed to contribute.

The short of it though is that I would have liked to join in a total rookie game earlier to get down some basics. Thus, my offer to host this one.

I'll join if there's still room... I normally play on regent and could use a lot of help on my playing style.

Oh and this will be my first succession game, but I've read a lot of them and I think I get the hang of it...

@gmaharriet, How high of a level would you like to play?

My playing level is all over the board...Monarch for my solo games now. I played a training SG at Emperor and then an SG at DG with really great teammates...both SS wins. But I've never had a domination or conquest or culture win at any level beyond Regent (domination), so there's a whole LOT I don't know.

The thing is...I prefer to play only one SG at a time so it has my full attention, and several of us just started an Emperor 100k culture with no research (see gmaharriet01). I'm counting on my expert teammates to help me in the areas I lack experience. If I hadn't started that already, I'd have loved to join you at whatever you came up with. I'll certainly be lurking! :)

What I like to do is learn from my teammates, then find a way to practice it in my solo games. I've spent weeks doing nothing but getting settler factories running, then abandoning the games. Then I did the same thing with barb fighting. Then setting up specialist farms. One new idea at a time until I get comfortable with it. I'm a little slow sometimes. :p

Current Roster...

jb1964
Mr David
open
open
open

@Mr. David, pick a civilization. I would like to play a standard continents map.

I want to get into a succesion game but I can't find anything open!!!!! I just got Conquests Saturday. I had Vanilla until then. Now i want to try everything it gives me! But my problem is that Regent is too easy. I can easily beat Monarch, and with some attention Emperor. Never tried higher. However I would still want to be in because I observed the Succesion Games posters are a certain group and you can get in this group only by being in some SG's.
So I would like to join, even though I'm not a newb/rookie.
Also about the civ I would like to try a C3C one like Celts or Scandinavia or Byzantium.

Are we going to try and pick a bad civ to make it challenging? I'm still confused as to what level we're going to play.

I'd say its a good idea to play on Emperor, and use an interesting Civ, like the mongols.

OK, Emperor.

Mongols would be fine.

Mr. David, you kewl w/ Emperor?

If so I'll generate a few saves and we can pick.

Hey JB how's it going? If you don't mind I'll keep an eye on this one and offer some comments from time to time.

Emperor's good. I just won my first monarch game :king: But the game gets so tedious when all you do is move units and set build queues! How long will turnsets be?

Hopefully 20 for the first set, then 10 for all turn sets after that. If the game slows enough, then 5 turns per set.

Ok, Emperor and Mongols is perfect.

Players...
jb1964
Mr David
azzaman333
Mirc
gmaharriet

Lurking: DJMGator13

At Emperor this is not a training game for others but a training game for me. I'll take all the pointers you have to offer Gator.

I'll toss up the saves this evening. The order is simply the order I pasted names into the list. If anyone has a preference let me know. I'm not thrilled about taking the first 20 but I'll consider it a growth experience.

Man, I was all set to show a group of newbs my prowess at playing a Regent game and now I get to show a group of vets my newb-ness. This is going to be interesting. :)

Take a look at this Mongol Emperor win. It was by far the highest score I (edit: a team I have been a part of...) have ever racked up.
BNH01 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=94045&highlight=Mongol)

Aw, jb, I'm sorry if you thought my comments were a signup. I can only manage one game at a time, and I have a Mongol Emperor 100k culture "no research" game going right now, and I'm counting on my team mates to teach me how to do it. I'll just lurk and learn on this one, thank you. :)

@gmaharriet, actually, you mentioned that previously. I just wasn't paying attention.

Have a good SG.

I took a look at BNH01, it was a Portugal arch game. :confused:

I took a look at BNH01, it was a Portugal arch game. :confused:
OK, I'm losing my mind. I know there's a Mongol game out there were we finished w/ a score over 9000. It was nuts. Anyway, I thought it was a BnH game but I'm off my rocker this evening.

I'm now on a quest to find a remnant of this beast.

Man, I was all set to show a group of newbs my prowess at playing a Regent game and now I get to show a group of vets my newb-ness. This is going to be interesting.

Your play in the R&L games was good, you can handle this. Speaking of newb, I'm still trying to find enough time to sit and log some cIV play. To date I have only played 1 complete solo game and that was the 1st GOTM.

If you check my sig, you'll know what level i am at. If you want, i'll take the first 20...

Any prefs on the barbs?

I'm voting for none or roaming.

BTW, all random opps, no cultural link, no SGL's. Kewl?

Save 1
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/jb1.JPG
Save 2
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/jb2.JPG
Save 3
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/jb3.JPG
Save 4
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/jb4.JPG
Save 5
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/jb5.JPG

I quite like start #4.

Saves 4 and 5 are obviously the easiest. But 3 looks also nice. The floodplains with a wheat and the grasslands make it good. The plains at the north are not very good, but...
Save 1 looks REALLY hard. But I still see wines and sugar in that only plains and desert start. Also we have fresh water.

I don't know what to choose, I'll let the others decide.

#4 isnt really that easy, since (AFAIK) it is a shield porr location until we mine the hills and mountain, which we wont want to do for a while. And we wont have much food until we learn Repulic.

Yes, but we'll get a forest or two when the borders will expand. We also have gold and fish and fresh water.
I am newbie to Conquests, so I don't know what traits Mongolia has (if I get up in the middle of the night and somebody asks me what traits a Vanilla civ has, I'll answer correctly without looking at the Civilopedia :)). Is it Expansionist? (that goodie hut at Emperor on a not Expansionist civ could be a great disadvantage.

That goody hut wouldnt make a differnce because if a town is built immediately next to a goody, you cant get barbs. We have the same traits as the Zulu (Militaristic and Expansionist).

Oh, Ok, Militaristic, Expansionist.

Is that forest or jungle south of the start in 5?
I too vote 4. Coast, river, fish, hut.

1 would be viable with luxury but the desert makes it really bad... 3 has the FP wheat, but as with most FP cities, it'll be shield-poor.

Looks to be jungle.

You're already full? :wavey: I am regent player and would like an educative experience.

I don't mind playing with six.

JB, are you going to play the first set?

yeah, roll it up JB, MAKE IT FUNKY!!! :D

Well, if allowed to participate in this game, I favour save #4 due to the river, fish, BG, hut and forest.

As I never played an expansionist and militaristic civ, I do not really now what the immediate priorities are at the start. Could somebody point that out? (Quickly establishing cities, like with all the other civs, seems obvious, but what is/may be different?)

Well, if allowed to participate in this game, I favour save #4 due to the river, fish, BG, hut and forest.

As I never played an expansionist and militaristic civ, I do not really now what the immediate priorities are at the start. Could somebody point that out? (Quickly establishing cities, like with all the other civs, seems obvious, but what is/may be different?)

Since we're expansionist, we should pump out a few scouts early, and develope a warmonger strat in the early MA, since we will trigger our GA with keshiks around then.

I see through the fog on start#4...a lot of jungle.:rolleyes:

After closer inspection, that last comment seems to be very true. :sad: Go for save number 3?

Want to make it 7 players? I'd like to get in on it. Also, if I am allowed, I vote for save #3 with that pretty floodplain wheat square.

Can we roll some more starts? It IS a higher level than we're used to and the RNG was not very kind to us this time

I'd give JB another day or so. He was online on the 28th so should be back soon.


Instead of rerolling saves
I've seen some SG's (I think LK did this) where each player rolls up their own start and plays the first 20 turns. Then they post a screenie and some details (contacts, techs). Then they decide which save to play. But it's up to JB since it is his game. But if JB doesn't get back in the next day or so this could be a good way to kick off the game.

Lurker Comment: Humbug.

i would suggest EACH player does the first 20.
you should add a DETAILED turn log with a reasoning for your actions.
details should include:
where you settled and why
what did you set your research to and why
what where your builds, in which order and why
who did you meet, where and when, and any trades you did with the reason for said trades.

these are all basic training game doings, and should help your start game skills.

when all have posted thier saves (with pics of course) you should discuss them.

you should also add a dotmap for future city builds.

Sounds like a good idea. Nevertheless, it won't be till tomorrow (or even Thursday's) evening that I can play and, subsequently, post due to uni assignments. ;)

What are the game details?

- C3C 1.22
- Emperor
- Mongols
-? What kind of map?

My thought was a standards continent map.
Standard Pangea also works for me.

Sorry to be absent from the thread. A little bit of RL got prinkled on me. I washed it off in the swamp.

Also, I'm stuck in a training class all week and my typical thread browsing time is severely curtailed.

You're already full? :wavey: I am regent player and would like an educative experience.

You're in. Getting experience was the genesis of this game so you can't be denied.

Welcome.

It sounds like we're conflicted on a start. I'll roll a few, and everyone here is alsow welcome to roll 'em.

BTW, all the starts I rolled were standard continents, sedentary barbs. Normal agressions.

Great, thanks :) Drakdan would also like to join.

The game details for an initial 20 turn game of which all can post the results for a selection:

- C3C 1.22
- Emperor
- Mongols
- Standard continents

What about the settings for barbarians?:hammer:

JB said sedentary in his post.

Players...
azzaman333
jb1964
Mr David
Mirc
gmaharriet
Vaiar

Lurking: DJMGator13, and the affable Soul_Warrior

@drakdan, please lurk. If a spot opens up you're first in. I think if we get 6 active palyers then 7 will be too much.

Again, I will roll some more starts tonight because I already know I have the time and nothing else pressing this evening.

Here's a fistful of golden saves...

I'm fond of just about every one of these.
All have rivers within a single move.
Slide 1 is solid
Slide 2 has a deer and 5! BG's
Slide 3 is about the worst w/ a jungle tile, 2 bg's, deer and wine
Slide 4 has a deer and two bg's
Slide 5 has a cow, BG and a grass/wheat
Slides 6 and 8 have two cows.
Slide 7 has a deer, two bg's and plenty of forest for early chops

Slide 1
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Slide1b.JPG
Slide 2
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Slide2b.JPG
Slide 3
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Slide3b.JPG
Slide 4
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Slide4b.JPG
Slide 5
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Slide5b.JPG
Slide 6
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Slide6b.JPG
Slide 7
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Slide7b.JPG
Slide 8
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Slide8b.JPG
Slide 9
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Slide9b.JPG

:eek:
Those are some amazing starts.

My pick is 6. The rest show signs of jungle or tundra in the fog

:eek:
Those are some amazing starts.

My pick is 6. The rest show signs of jungle or tundra in the fog

Ya, set up the settter on the hill over the river, start working the cow in place.

ill grab hold of my SIX shooter and lets go bang some AIs :woohoo:

So we started with save 6?

That's a very nice starting location. Two Cows!! :crazyeye:

Ya, set up the settter on the hill over the river, start working the cow in place.

On the hill? That means near the sea. Is it a problem to settle on the cow or BG? Please explain.

That's a very nice starting location. Two Cows!! :crazyeye:



On the hill? That means near the sea. Is it a problem to settle on the cow or BG? Please explain.

If we settler on the cow, we lose the bonus food and sheild (i think) and if we settle on the BG we lose the sheild (i think)

Players...
azzaman333
jb1964
Mr David
Mirc
Vaiar
drakdan (you're in! PM'ed)

Lurking: DJMGator13, gmaharriet, and the affable Soul_Warrior

Settling on top of any bonus essentially erases it's benefit completely.

If you settle on a desert tile or on a BG you get the same production from that core tile. Always aim to settle poorer tiles and not settle bonus tiles. We violated that in our current SGoTM (settled on a BG) out of necessity for city spacing.

More input and discussion for starts can be posted for the remainder of the day (EST, I'm in Ohio) because I did not upload the saves.

Currently, if we have no more input I'm uplading Save 6 when I get home for Azzaman333 to run with.

I would also suggest, per SW suggestion, that we all play the first 20 turns for the learning experience.

More later.

I heard about never settle on bonus tiles too, but I didn't know it apllies to BG too.

Edit: wtf, crosspost with jb but 4 minutes distance between posts!

If you settle on BG you will get extra shield only when city will grow to size 7.

Lurking :scan:

I'm still sticking with six.

So should we all play the first 20 when you upload it?

For educational puporses, as SW suggested, anyone who would like to play the fist 20 and then post a write-up of decisions, outcomes, etc. is welcome. I plan on doing my 20 in the next few days.

Settling on top of any bonus essentially erases it's benefit completely.

If you settle on a desert tile or on a BG you get the same production from that core tile. Always aim to settle poorer tiles and not settle bonus tiles. We violated that in our current SGoTM (settled on a BG) out of necessity for city spacing.

But you do pickup the commerce bonus when settling on a gold hill.

<<The Save>> (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/jb01_4000BC.sav)

Enjoy!

If you havent done your turnset yet (assuming we all play the first 20), dot look at the spoiler.

4000 BC - Move scout 1 NE. Saw 4 cows! moved settler there as well. worker starts irrigating a cow.

3950 BC - Karakorum founded, started a scout. Spot some gems to the northeast (in jungle). 100% sci slider to Alphabet (aiming for Republic sling)

3900 BC - Spot what could be an inland sea.

3850 BC - nuthin intrestin...

3800 BC - Road the cow.

3750 BC - Brown borders spotted by Mr. Scouty.

3700 BC - Scout built in Karakorum, start another scout (gotta use our expansionist trait). Marathon runs north, Mr. Scouty proves that its not an inland sea, but part of the ocean.

3650 BC - Boring. <snores loudly>

3600 BC - Rioting in Karamorum reminds me to open mapstat :blush:

3550 BC - Bored.

3500 BC - Scout built in Karakorum, start a warrior. Road Runner starts running to try and meet Brownies.

3450 BC - Karakorum is a the northern point of a penisular.Popped a hut for 25 gold.

3400 BC - The friendly Sakae village gives us a free warrior. Damn them, i wanted a settler!

3350 BC - Build a warrior in karakorum, start a granny. Mr Grrr fortifies in Karakorum to give protection. My suspiscion tells me that we are stuck with Mr Brown, and only Mr. Brown.

3300 BC - Mrs BlueBorder proves my last suspicion wrong...

3250 BC - 1 turn from meeting bluey.

3200 BC - OH CRAP!!!! ITS GERMANY!!! We can trade pottery to them, but i doubt they will want it for what we have. On a much lighter note, i found silky stuffs.

3150 BC - We meet Carthage, and Germany sells use Masonry for Pottery! :eek:

3100 BC - Turn of boringnesslyness.

3050 BC - Carthage has Ivory, and Germany has incense. It's not going to be easy to fight with either of them for a looooooong time.

3000 BC - And so ends our journey, this time at least.

Next turn we pop a goody hut.

http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/8812/jb013000bc7at.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Four cows :eek:

I will grab and play tonight after I post my 20 turns.

Here's an abstract: It didn't go well.

@Smart.. Yep, I could hardly believe it.

I think my start didn't go as well as Azzaman's. :( Here;s the story:

Well, two levels up from my usual playing field, here's my try:

4000 BC Moved scout onto mountain to the NW. The settler moved the north to capture the three cows. The worker stays on the spot and starts irrigating the cow.
3950 BC Found Karakorum and start building a scout. I moved the research slider to 100% and went for the alphabet as that tech seems to be pretty popular in many games due its progress versus Republic. The scout moved further N and saw may nice city spots.
3900 BC Scout goes N
3850 BC Scout moves west and finds gems near the lake on whose shores Karakorum is located.
3800 BC The workers starts constructing a road on the cow. The scout moves onto a hill to the west and sees a goody hut.
3750 BC Cool!!! The goody hut contains a settler which goes ZW as I do not like the current location. (Of course I saved prior to moving for you guys).
3700 BC Scout finished in Karakorum, continues on warrior and the scout goes south. Settler moves into the direction of the lake.
3650 BC GRR Carthagians!! They do not want to trade on reasonable terms + I do not have any warrior and the settler is threathened. Settler heads NW. Another goodie hut near the Carthagian warrior.
A goodie hut to the S contains CB :-)
3600 BC Karakorum grows and goes into disorder. What now? I decided to move up the luxury slider to 10%.
Carthage pops the goodie hut and spawns two warriors. My first scout is dead. GRR
3550 BC Ta-Tu is founded on the lake between the gems and the BG; it starts on a warrior. Order restored in Karakorum.
----- We're half way
3500 BC Warrior in Karakorum finished and I start a scout. My 2nd scout sees the Carthagian borders.
3450 BC Nothing much.
3400 BC Scout moves up and I reallocate production to a forest in Karakorum.
3350 BC Karakorum grows to 3. Scout moves back up.
3300 BC Civil disorder in Karakorum, I move the luxury slide to 20%. Perhaps I should go connect the gems near Ta-Tu. Ta-tu's warrior is finished and I go for a scout.
3250 BC Scout in Karakorum is finished and I go for a temple (order is restored.)
3200 BC Nothing, I move the scouts around to undiscovered places.
3150 BC Rien
3100 BC Scouts move around, one finds an oasis.
3050 BC Ta-tu produces a scout and I select a worker for construction. I also meet a German Spear. Hmmm, I just do not know how to start decently. Bismarck is annoyed and I trade CB for the Alphabet. The Germans also have the Wheel and Bronze Working, but are unwilling to trade.

Comments: I do not master the techniques of a proper start and feel like trailing the AI. I rank 1 in pop and production though, so maybe not all is lost. I do need to pay more attention to the well-being of my city populations, as I wasted two turns in disorder.

http://img348.imageshack.us/img348/8277/vaiar3050bc8cu.jpg

Here's the save with the extra settler from the goodie hut at 3750 BC. Not much wasted in so few turns, so I anyone would like to try from here.

I see so much city placement.I'll stay as lurker.Not that much experience in emperor.

Vaiar, how do you got second save with settler? Reloading? :nono:

@Ansar_the_King: your place now is Lurker hotel, forever :lol:

Turn 1- Hm... two cows. Scout goes to mountain. Reveals lots of jungle. Coast is lake.
Settler NE
Worker begins roading cow
Turn 2- Settler builds Karakorum. Begin on scout
Scout to hill
IT- research max towards Alpha
Turn 3- Scout reveals close gems...
Turn 4- Scouting and worker starts irrigating cow
Turn 5- Scouting
Turn 6- Scouting
IT- Karakorum: Scout>Scout
Turn 7- Scouting
Turn 8- MM- Growth in 1 would waste 3 food with cow. Drop a gold piece and gain turn on scout.
Also, pop a hut in south. Pop a settler! YAY! Settle in place. (With limited map knowledge, I don't know if this is a good or bad choice)
Scout meets german spear in north. There is a nice choke... There was a goody hut visible, but the spear took it! :(
Turn 9- Worker begins irrigating second cow.
Lux to 10%. 1 content citizen??? Madness
IT- Karakorum: Scout>Warrior(MP)
Turn 10- Nothing
Turn 11- Spot silks to east. See brown borders, but not reachable
IT- Tatu: Scout>Scout (probably the last scout needed)
Turn 12- Scouting
IT- Karakorum: Warrior>Granary
Turn 13- Scouting
Turn 14- Scouting
Turn 15- Worker moves to BG
Turn 16- Scouting
IT- Ta-tu: Scout>Warrior
Turn 17- Grrr... Granary in Karakorum will finish a turn after growth. Instead, MM for food. Growth in 4, Granary in 7
Turn 18- Scouting
Turn 19- Scouting
Turn 20- Scouting

So, granary in 4 in Karakorum, growth in 1. I still don't have that MM'ed right...
In ta-tu, warrior and growth in 2
Alpha in 5. Lots of scouts are bunched up in east to fogbust the right side of the continent. Still didn't meet that civ... No trades available with Germany.
In retrospect, that second city has horrible placement.


I only popped one hut! :blush: I hope someone else did better.

I do need to pay more attention to the well-being of my city populations, as I wasted two turns in disorder.

This should NEVER happen. Always remember that Emperor only give 1 content. You should check at least once a turn. Especially early in the game, as those 5 or 6 shields are crucial

Here's my first 20...

Azzaman333, where's the save?

Turn 0 – 4000BC OK, I don’t want to settle on my cow so I’m going to step NE to the hill and get what looks to be a coastal tile. The worker will irrigate this cow and then mine the next. That should give +5 food even in despotism. The worker will irrigate first and then road. I think the obvious direction for the scout is the mountain.
Holy Cows! After stepping onto the hill we don’t have 2 cows but we have 4! All four could fall in the city radius of our capitol but the next two cities will be placed to share these bonus tiles because it’s often useful when balancing out shields & food. Also our coast is a four tile lake. A harbor will be in order in the future to reap the extra food but that’s a long ways away.
The scout shows that we’ll be having to clear jungle in the future. These will be the last areas to be settled.
Turn 1 – 3950 BC
Karakorum is founded and we get to work on a scout. Scouts at this point will be helpful trying to snatch goody huts and are certainly helpful find the boarders and the neighbors.
Sending the scout NW is going to snare him in jungle so we drop to a hill that will lead to open grass where his two movements can be used. Cost is close to the N so he’ll head E next turn to clear the area.
Now for research. I can’t count on the Rep Slingshot working but I’m going to go that direction anyway. Alpa.
Turn 2 – 3900 BC
I decide to send the scout further north as the second one will have and easy path east from our starting location.
Turn 3 – 3850 BC
Some more nice BG to the north backed by some desert.
Turn 4 – 3800 BC
Tile irrigated. Road next.
Turn 5 – 3750 BC
Well, I pop a village in a horrible spot and it immediately settles, Ta-Tu. Not my first choice of locals but I’ll probably make this a warrior/worker factory for the time being. Working the coastal tile gives an extra gold and we get the same 1spt.
Turn 6 – 3700 BC
Scout – scout
Scout heading due South.
Turn 7 – 3650 BC
Karakorum grows and we need to provide entertainment.
Southern scout pops a hut and we get a map. Great.
Change the city governor to go for food.
Second citizen working cow to get 5fpt.
Scout 1 ends his turn next to a barb and will be dispatched.
We meet the Germans. They have Bronze but will not trade our pottery for it.
Turn 8 – 3600 BC
Dead scout and a barb on the loose. Next scout is changing to a warrior.
Turn 9 – 3550 BC
Forgot about the swap and get another scout.
Swapping the worked tile from the cow to the forest I can get 10s in three turns and waste no food. Forrest – cow – cow.
Gems nearby!
Turn 10 - 3500 BC
We meet Hannibal.
Trade pottery, warrior code and 2g for the remainder of Alphabet and Masonry. We set our sights on Writing.
Turn 11 – 3450 BC Hmmm, Carthage is romping nearby w/ 3 warriors.
Turn 12 – 3400 BC
Growth corresponds w/ warrior arrival. I’ll leave him home to MP.
Warrior – settler
Turn 13 – 3350 BC Nothing
Turn 14 – 3300 BC Germany is coming w/ two archers and a spear.

Turn 15 – 3250 BC
Germany is going to declare. I could abandon the city as we can’t win a war w/ then at this time and I can’t keep them from taking the city.

Turn 16 – 3200 BC I abandon the city. Settler becomes an archer. Entertainment to 20%

Turn 17 – 3150 BC Carthage pops a hut of warriors and they kill our second scout.

Turn 18 – 3100 BC Nothing

Turn 19 – 3050 BC Pop a hut and get a warrior.

Turn 20 – 3000 BC Germans are still coming.

:eek:
Germans are already invading?

Hey JB, has a victory condition been decided? Knowing what kind of victory you are shooting for will influence the way you can/should play the early game.

City placement is one item, not as important in C3C since no RCP.

Hey JB, has a victory condition been decided? Knowing what kind of victory you are shooting for will influence the way you can/should play the early game.

City placement is one item, not as important in C3C since no RCP.

Ah ha! I did neglect the victory condition. Conquest, Domination or Space is my vote. Cultural is pretty much out and I just don't get Diplomatic.

I say domination.

Turn 9- Worker begins irrigating second cow.
Irrigate cows? Is this good?
I will try today my 20 turns.
@jb1964: picture?

Vaiar, how do you got second save with settler? Reloading?

That 2nd save was made directly after I got the settler from the goodie hut for the benefit of the other players.

Sorry, accidental post!

How do you keep your people satisfied so early in the game? I used the entertainment slider, but that does not seem optimal. Build a temple then? Stop growing?

Use the entertainment slider. When we hook up the gems and silks then we have a chance to throttle back. Spending the time/shields to build, and then pay for, a temple is not the way to go at this time.

In Despotism there is benefit to irrigating (+1f) or mining (+1s) the cow on grass. If we irrigate one cow and then mine the other we get +5 food right there. What we need then is figure out how to produce 30 sheilds in the four turns it would take to replace the population (2) lost after a settler pops.

With the Germans running around I'm going to advocate pushing out some troops. Now that just about everyone has done the 20 turns it's no real secret that my 20 involved the Germans getting nasty. More discussion is needed on that event.

OK, the goal is Domination. It's better than hunting down transports w/ settlers and it really fits with the Mongols.

BTW, our leader has got the be the ugliest thing this side of a dog's butt.

I didn't capture a shot during my 20 and when I stopped I didn't bother to save the game. Therefore, no picture.

Here's a description... Settled on the hill, Ta-Tu was popped and later abandoned in the far North surrounded by desert and a plains tile or two giving a population growth of 1 every 20 turns.

So we're playing off JB's start?

So we're playing off JB's start?

Nope, we gave the first 20 to azzaman333 no matter what the rest rolled. The other "20's" were for edjamacation.

Who thinks we can pull off the slingshot or even get to Philo first?

I think we should drop to the lower tier and move towards polytheism since it's often good trading bait.

Pottery and Warrior code are really bad starting techs. :mad:

It'll take a while to research CB, Mysticism and Polytheism.

Do the Germans and Carthagians have a special inclination to go for a particular tech tree? If so, take another tree of course :) If the scientific Germans do not make a dash for Republic, I suggest to go that road.

In my games, the Carthagians tend to go the Construction path.

As I recall, the AI goes for those first tier techs in whatever order they care, usually ignoring Mysticism and Writing, saving those two for last. Then they go for Map Making, then Mathematics, then construction. Getting Philosophy is usually pretty easy. Republic Swingshot is more of a gamble, but you'll probably get Code of Laws first.

vvv In my expierence that list is usually incorrect.

Check this:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=123345

I find Carthage goes for MapMaking, and then Construction.

<<<<The Save>>>> (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/jb01_2550BC.sav)
Turn 0
We’re two turns from finishing the all important granary. Here I think azzaman’s build order was superior to mine. I held off on the granary build in favor a settler first. Azz has also MM’ed (Micro Managed) the tiles being worked to finish the granary in two turns.
We have a warrior, a conscript warrior, three scouts and a worker. We’re certainly weak.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/granary.JPG
Turn 1 - 2950 BC
I can now move one of the citizens out of the forest onto the lower cow to still finish out the granary build and pick up 2 more food and a coin.
Conscript warrior picks up 25g.
Worker’s done w/ the road and we now set up for a mine in 6. That will take us to 8spt which is not a good multiple.
I’m tempted to abandon the western scout but they’re quite fragile and I’ll wait to see how things unfold.
Granary to settler. MM to fill out the granary in the next turn for growth. Working the newly roaded BG nets another coin.
Turn 2 - 2900 BC
Warrior busts dots of fog and will come home to MP
Turn 3 - 2850 BC
City grows and entertainment goes to 30%.
We’re going to have 4 turn settlers without a problem and after some improvements will be able to get them in three turns now and again.
Turn 4 – 2800
Conscript is coming home and the scouts run about.
Turn 5 – 2750
Alpha comes in and I don’t see much chance for the slingshot.
OK, based on the discussion and the AI Research Thread we’ll go for writing.
Turn 6 – 2710
Settler pops and we’re headed for a river spot just three clicks away.
Turn 7 – 2670
I can’t come up w/ an efficient build (no wasted shields/food) so I’ll select a lake tile to get two more gold and we’ll build an archer.
Turn 8 – 2630
Two lake tile this time.
Turn 9 – 2590
We built an archer and are working on a settler.
The worker has moved to the lower cow and starts mining first.
Turn 10 – 2550
Found Ta-Tu and start a barracks.
Archer is on the way to cover the city.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/settler.JPG

Here's a crack at a dot map.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/dots.JPG

What's the roster?

azzaman333
jb1964
Mr David <- you're up :)
Mirc
Vaiar
drakdan

I'd go for city spot 1 above the lake. Karakorum is just about to grow.

city 5 - down SE to get the food in the 9. on second thought, move it straight south (keeps the food, the water, and less overlap with Ta-Tu)
city 3 - moved to get to the water.
added a few dots, jsut for fun.

i dont like too much over lap, but you need to remember that MOST of the game you will be able to use only 12 tiles, so a closer city spacing is my prefered method.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a113/soul_warrior/dots_jb01_sw.jpg

germany is bad news, but an excellent learning AI.
my vote would be go for CONQUEST.
kill them krauts ;)

tech wise, i would want to know where to get some ponies.
but the slingshot seems feasable. so id stick with it.

good going so far :goodjob:

I haven't study the map much but it looks like some of the city sites are next to jungle tiles. Why not take advantage of the settler and found on the jungle which removes it right away.

With 4 cows you should also look at your second city as being another settler factory, especially with all the open space between you and your opponents. I'd make the third city coastal so that you can find the other civs.

One ot the best positions to be in is to be the tech broker. Especially if you can achieve the slingshot.

I founded Ta-Tu so it could share the lower cow. It could also be a settler factory but it could also be an archer factory. :)

If you move 3 up then there's a dead spot 2N of 4, below (SW) the upper cow. Another city could be placed in between 3 and 4 to give 3 spacing and get that forest tile but it seems crowded.

Totally agree that being a tech broker between the two continents is a major goal.

I think the science slider could use some adjustment. I'd also reccomend expanding towards Germany and using Karukorum for 3 settlers, two to expand towards germany and the third to wherever, and then switch to archers to fight German agressions. Also, Karokorum can probably be set up to run as a 4 turn, size 4 settler factory. Losing those two population means less angry people.
I'd have Ta-Tu go barracks, Archers, then lesbian-russian pop band.

Karukorum could make settlers in 4 turns without a thought. However, given some thought, and I encourage this, the lake tiles can come in handy to get extra gold.

After Karukorum gets some settlers running all about it should pump workers for a few turns.

Keep Ta-Tu making archers to discourage the Germans.

Let's get more input on the dot map. Expansion towards the german's is a good idea. The less space that bast___ has to work with the better.

^:lol:
In Civ3 it is known that Bismarck is the most annoying leader! He is attacking for nothing or even less!

Karukorum need only two cows to be 4-turner SF. You may build "3" and "5" cities more close to capital to use 2 more cows.

Karukorum need only two cows to be 4-turner SF. You may build "3" and "5" cities more close to capital to use 2 more cows.
I think I like my original spot for city 3 because it can get it's hands on the upper cow. I'm not tossing SW's suggestion into the can but I'll take a second, and third, look at the dot map.

What do you think about settling right on top of the Diamonds to avoid chopping the jungle? You lose the gold bonus from the Gems. Yes/No?

Also, expanding towards the Germans will get thier panties all up in a wad so don't get "in thier face" until you have an escort. Archers are better than sprears. The only need for a spear, or two, will be if we end up making an archer SoD to send Bismark's way.

IIRC, only food bonuce will disappear if you settle on it.

IIRC, only food bonuce will disappear if you settle on it.
Hmmm, gotta test this one out.

Only one blocking city on the desert tiles seems to be needed to prevent the Germans from settling our part of the world. May it be a good step to send a settler escorted by some archers and a spear that way? Or should be first settle around the lake with the serious risk that the Germans come in?

Hmmm, gotta test this one out.


It's mostly true. Settled squares produce 2f, base shields, base commerce of the square +1, with the exception of base shield of 0 giving 1 shield. Base shields higher than 1 don't appear on grassland or plains though, so settling on a BG or furs essentially removes the shield bonus, as the result is the same sas settling on a non-BG. An iron hill gives you extra shields in your city square, but removes the possibility of you mining that square to get heaps of shields. Commerce bonuses stay regardless, so settling on a lux doesn't cost anything.

That start looks very nice, 4 cows on a river.

It's mostly true. Settled squares produce 2f, base shields, base commerce of the square +1, with the exception of base shield of 0 giving 1 shield. Base shields higher than 1 don't appear on grassland or plains though, so settling on a BG or furs essentially removes the shield bonus, as the result is the same sas settling on a non-BG. An iron hill gives you extra shields in your city square, but removes the possibility of you mining that square to get heaps of shields. Commerce bonuses stay regardless, so settling on a lux doesn't cost anything.

That start looks very nice, 4 cows on a river.
Very helpful lurk!

I think we adjust the dotmap to put the city right on the gems.

Will post another one tonight.

I thought it was nuts to get two cows for a starter. I pumped out several apparently good starts w/ game, cows and wheat but this is the one the team had selected. Fog reading led some to think that others were on the boarders of swamps and jungle. I started playing a few of the other starts solo and I can confirm that they're not as idyllic as would first appear. When I took my 20 training turns and stepped up onto the hill my eyes about came outta my head when I saw the other two cows.

We’ll need some spectacularly bad luck to bone this one up. Luck similar to my 20 turns when the Germans immediately set upon me.

@David, any progress?

If you've pumped the next settler(s) out let's talk about where they're headed.

Just got back from school. Sorry I was out all day yesterday...

I'll pick up the save, look over the comments and update within a couple hours

Edit: So I should go for the gems with the first settler?

Schoolwork comes first. Play through your turns when your time is free. If you're tied up for an extended time then let's work out a swap w/ someone.

Schoolwork comes first can only be said by someone who hasn't recently been a part of the school system.
I'd also reccomend settling on the diamonds because that gold isn't going to amount to much, even over the course of an entire game.

Schoolwork comes first can only be said by someone who hasn't recently been a part of the school system.
I'd also reccomend settling on the diamonds because that gold isn't going to amount to much, even over the course of an entire game.
:)

I have not had to deal w/ schoolwork in quite a long time.

Yep, settle on the diamonds.

earlier someone noted that WE need just one blocking city in the sand to stop Fritz from advancing on our FATHERLAND.
i would send settler 3 or 4 that way, escorted by atleast an archer, and a maybe a spear too?

settling on the gems is cool, not much will be lost, and it would be easier to defend (not that i see any attacks in the near to far future penetrating that deep ;))

JB, what about that updated DOTMAP?
WE NEED PIX. :bounce:

and, ahem, Mr David? as one that just REENROLLED into school, but was out for a long time,
CIV SHOULD come after school, but alas, were all sinners, adn do things in the opposite way.
just make sure you invest more time in your homework than [civ4]

I would settle 1, 5, 2, 4.

Put 1 on the deamonds
I think I would move 5 due south of it's current location. However, that makes for spacing of 4. Dangerous? I don't think so.
Put 2 and 4 as is. When 4 is founded I would immediately set about building a granary w/ forest chops. Bring 2 workers to the party.

As far as 3 goes I would leave it in the original location, inland. That creates less crowding of 2 and it keeps from creating dead space between 3 and 4 without having to put in another city just three spaces NW of 4.

I played five turns so far... Don't know what to do with the settler for now

Pre-turn:
Germany and Carthage are up three techs each, but no deals possible. Yikes!

All builds look okay and no mm'ing to do with two cities!

>>Enter<<

1. MM in Karakorum to a lake tile. Gain two gold pieces. We need to do this every time growth and production coincide. Move down science (with same turns on writing) Breaking even! :)

IT- Karawhatsits: Settler>Settler in 4

2. Fortify Captain Cool in Ta-tu.
Settler to gems

3. Nothing

4. Nothing

IT- See a lot of German troops marching around my scout... We better be careful

5. Kazan is founded. Start a warrior (?)
Scout stumbles upon a Greek Hoplite! They have one city (plus capital) and are up the same techs as everyone else.
I just noticed, we are the only civ we know that has three cities! I didn't expect this on emperor, especially since we took time to build a granary. Settler in 1.

IT- Karakorum: Settler>Settler
Zulu scout passes by our scout. Meet them, they are the same as everyone else.

And here I'll pause for our next city placement. I really think that we should go for number 4 on JB's dotmap first to get some curraghs out. We have met 4 civs so far, and we are tied for last with Germany in score. Also, what should I build in Kazan? I started a warrior for quick defense, but I'm not sure.

I prefer your locate the boat-building city at location #2 of Soul-Warrior's map. Further, success I am going to bed. ;)

@ JB
Your job description is missing a 'r'. :mischief:

Okay... So I'll go with JB's post and settle 5. Will update with final 5 turns soon

I prefer your locate the boat-building city at location #2 of Soul-Warrior's map. Further, success I am going to bed. ;)

@ JB
Your job description is missing a 'r'. :mischief:
I think SW and I advocate the same location for city 2. I don't think his check's were a sign that the city should be on that tile but an "OK".

SW, care to clarify.
Vaiar, can you also clarify?

And I never noticed the missing "r". Corrected.

Alright... the rest of my turns
6- Send settler

IT- Ta-tu: Rax>Archer

7. We pass Germany in score! :) Not that it matters...

8. Nothing...

9. Settler is in a dilemma... I can move 1 south of spot 5 or move 1 southeast of spot 5 to be on the coast. Hm... I'll just go with JB and go due south.
Oh wait! I realize now that due south is also on the coast :crazyeye: Duh!
Hmm... marathon reveals a continuation of the continent to the east. This can be one big landmass.

10. Settle Awesomeville: Start a curragh (?)

And I'll leave the settler turn to the next person.

We have no trades available at all with anyone :cry: Are we going to trade around alpha after we finish writing, or would that be too much of a risk?

Edit: Also, Awesomeville and Kazan's builds should be changed if needed. I'm not good at build queues

I'll put up a few screenies...

Nothing much going on yet... http://img350.imageshack.us/img350/1333/blah1cw.gif

The first graph is score, next is power. Culture was so pointless, I just left it out

Just some more suggestions.

Tight grouping
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/dots_galor.jpg

A little looser
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/dots_galor_loose.jpg

If you're going warmongering then you don't need too many cities. You want to develop a good solid production/research core. But that also depends on resources. If you have horses you should be able to take over this continent without any problems. You'll want cities to claim resources that don't fall in your initial core. Just remember that any city the AI builds will save you from having to build it. Your goal now is research and resources. So keep pushing for the Republic slingshot.

If we manage the core well, pump settlers, get some workers out, and work the gold tiles when sheilds are not needed to fill out a build then I'm more convinced that we can get the slingshot. The four cows are just nuts!

I really want to figure out where the horses are.

When writing comes in we should see what we can get for it and then make a call on the trade.

@Gator, thanks for the advise.

howdie all,

1- those V's on my dots were a sign of OK to settle here, NOT an alternate city location.

2- i would start a rax or 3, as we need MUCHO PLENTY TROOPS ASAP.
the germans et al, will start getting frisky pretty soon if we wont have a proper defence.

3- trading alpha once we have writing is a must, IMIO, as they will get a lower cost for it, and might start researching it.
get the most you can out of that tech - BROKER IT AROUND.
once we get writing though, DONT trade it (as we will want to gain the slinger first)

4- if indeed it is a conquest win were aiming for, a relaxed city spacing is adequate.
more focous should be given to finding where the ponies and nuggets are.

otherwise, looking very good.
ill bet on a 11th century conquest win ;)

azzaman333
jb1964
Mr David
Mirc - Up
Vaiar - On Deck
drakdan - In the hole

Throughout the remainder of the game I would like to encourage those that are "Up, On Deck, or In the hole" to feel free to grab the last save and post an "I got it". We'll just make it a dynamic swap so we don't get anyone playing twice before another member gets in a turn.

I have never been a fan of "skips". My hope is that the game will move more briskly and everyone will have an equal hand in slaughtering the AI. :devil:

For anyone who may not know this...

On the very turn a city grows in population it also receives the sheilds & gold from the tile assigned the new worker.

For instance, set Karakorum's governor to emphasize production (shields). On that turn the 5 food fills up the granary the new citizen will be assigned to a 2 shield tile and you get those two shields. With this in mind you can manage a city so that even though your “product”, a settler maybe, is due in 2 turns it can be produced on the very next turn by working the needed number of shields minus 2.

That doesn't sound all that clear but I don't have time to word-smith it.

Have a good one.

BTW, SW &/or Gator, care to offer a critique of the first 20's? I have started one but don't have time to finish it today.

Actually it doesn't get the gold from the new citizen. (Of course, the shields are more significant, especially for micromanaging purposes).

Sorry, please read my sig..... Sorry again

azzaman333
jb1964 - In the hole
Mr David
Mirc - Out until the 13th (See his sig :))
Vaiar - Up
drakdan - On Deck

Vaiar & Drakdan, either is welcome to play. I'm not going to grab unless we have a 48 hour lapse. I don't want to play two sets before anyone else has had a chance to have one.

@MM, No gold!? Bummer. I knew you got the shields and assumed you would also get the gold. I tossed the "gold" in there to just further entice our team to MM.

Mr. David's save 10 replies up is the most recent right? I got it.

Mr. David's save 10 replies up is the most recent right? I got it.
Yep, you're correct.

Enjoy.

BTW, SW &/or Gator, care to offer a critique of the first 20's? I have started one but don't have time to finish it today.

I'll try to take a look tomorrow night. I was thinking of playing the first 20 turns myself as a comparison.

Hi guys,

The uni is bombarding me with assignments, but I'll find some time to play today.

edit: just received an email from a teacher, an assignment on the Black-Litterman model has been canceled :) I'll post my turns this afternoon, or tonight (unless Drakdan already played.)

I'll try to take a look tomorrow night. I was thinking of playing the first 20 turns myself as a comparison.
I played past my first 20 and wound up in a war w/ Germany, abandonded a city, diverted builds to regular archers and just pulled through. Brutal freaking start.

BTW...

Black-Litterman Model
When people talk about asset allocation, they are usually referring to a mathematical model developed by Nobel Laureate Harry Markowitz called mean-variance optimization. Mean-variance optimization combines forecasts of expected return, expected risk and correlations between assets to create a set of portfolios that maximize return for a given level of risk. Investors often find that the resulting portfolios are unintuitive, highly concentrated and that the allocations are very sensitive to small changes in the forecasts.

The Black-Litterman model recognizes that the fault lies not in mean-variance optimization itself, but in the forecasts used. Instead of using historical numbers to predict future returns, the Black-Litterman model starts with the set of returns implied by equilibrium in the market. It then adjusts these returns for any views that the investors hold about sections of the market or relative future performance of different asset classes. The resulting portfolios are intuitive and diversified.

I think I'll take a look at my investments. Wallet's empty. Mission accomplished.

Ok, I got the save and I am going to play. :) Gee, I hope I do not screw up.

2150 BC (Mr David's turn) Moved settler + settler west to settle at city spot #2 in the JB and SW dot maps. Karakorum: Settler > Warrior
2110 BC South-East Scout sees dark borders of Zululand! Worker will construct a road to Kazan to spread the benefits of the gems.
2070 BC Two Carthagian warriors show up at our borders. Ta-Tu: archer > archer. Karakorum: warrior > settler
2030 BC Those Greeks seem to have a nice little empire in the SE.
1990 BC Tabriz founded on the coast to the NW. Tabriz > worker (Is that wise?)
1950 BC Kazan: warrior > worker. Ta-tu: switched on a scientist to prevent disorder the next turn. BAD news: Zululand has writing; the others don't. Carthagian warriors move N towards Germany. SE scout found 3 gems near Zululand.
1910 BC We learn to write, which leaves me with a tough decision. Only the Zulus have writing and the other civs are interested in trading techs for writing. However, Soul-Warrior insists in refraining from trade, so I do not trade. I hope we still get to Rep first and we are researching CoL now. A scout found furs near the Greeks.
1870 BC Karakorum: warrior > settler. This warrior goes towards the settler, which was moving to the SW.
1830 BC Ta-tu: archer > Granary. I decided to move the science slider up 10% to 70%, which shrinks the budget by 2 each turn.
1790 BC Gems in three cities!! Worker will go connect the curragh-building city to the S.I remove Ta-tu's scientist: the granary is now 12 turns away.I turn the luxury slide back to 20% from 30%, still shrinking 1 a turn. Ulaanbatar found to the SW. Carthage demands 20 gold, I say no. Now they're annoyed. Zululand started building the oracle.
1750 BC Karakorum: settler > warrior. I leave the settler in Karakorum for the next player, probably Drakdan.
http://img274.imageshack.us/img274/8889/vaiar1750bc3ok.jpg

Trade writing immediately. If the Zulu have it then we need to beat them to the punch before it's worthless. SW is insane and should not be trusted for sound advice. :eek: :D
BW, CB and Wheel are available from Germany and Greece. The Zulu have already traded writing to the Germs. Germany has a few gold and Greece has none so I would approach Bismarck first.

The Entertainment slider can be pulled back to 10% and research can be pushed to 90% to bring in CoL in 11 turns. That will drain the treasury so it's probably more like 13 turns after a few more settlers start binging in some additional income. It could be shorter also if we can get gold out of Bismark. Actually, that's a sound idea. Trade to Germany for a tech and all his gold. Push the research slider. Go to Alex for whatever's left.

Awsomeville will riot on the next turn. Hire a scientist.

We'll be first to CoL. We can hold it for a few turns so we don't divert an AI to Philo but I doubt there will be an effect.

The core city should build settlers and workers only. Here's a MM scheme for workers. Pop off two in the hear term, go for more settlers and then a few more workers.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Slide1.JPG

Keep the barracks town going on archers. A granary here gives the city a mixed personality that we don't need at this time.
Ulanbaataan can be set to a granary. The two workers to be made in the short term should chop forerst to get the granary in short order.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Slide2.JPG

Let's try this for the new dot map.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Slide31.JPG

azzaman333 (1) - On deck
jb1964 (1) - In the hole
Mr David (1)
Vaiar (1) -
drakdan - Up!
Mirc - Out until the 13th (See his sig :))

Ya know, Germany has some rough land to grow from.

I think our first victim might be Carthage.

Are we building archers to rush Carthage, or just to keep AIs from demanding/declaring?

I played the first 30 turns to do a comparison to your game. I made the same first move with the scout (exposing the 4 cows) but then I did 2 major things different. First, I settled KK on the forest not on the hill. There is enough food to have both of the first 2 cities at +5fpt, which is key for 4 turn settler factories. The second thing I did different was where I settled Ta-Tu. I positioned it so that it could grab 2 of the cows and 2 of the BG's. This will allow both cities to be 4 turn settler factories running on a 4-6 cycle. I'm also only 9 turns from WRIT but I'll have to re-evaluate the sliders next turn after the settler in KK completes.

Here is a look at my game at turn 31 (I hit the space bar when I thought I was making notes).

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/JB01_01.jpg

Here is my log in spoiler form.


4000BC
Scout NE, spies the 4 cows
Settler N (food is no problem and I want to max shields by using the hill later, this also allows the 2nd city to be built in a position to grab 2 of the cows for itself)
Worker1 irrigates

3950BC
Settler founds Karalorum - set to warrior (we'll grow fast and I can use him for MP while building the granary)
Scout E E
start ALPHA - 100% in 38 turns @ 0gpt

3900BC
Scout S S (wanted to light up 2nd city site, see another BG there by the coast)

3850BC
Scout W S (waiting to explore the jungle/marsh area for later - looking for nearby GHs) find a sugar

3800BC
Worker, since the cow is on the river (already earning commerce) I skip roading and move NW to next cow
Scout S W - found another sugar

3750BC
Scout W (spies GH) N (pop GH - we get a map)
Worker mines this cow

IBT - KK warrior => settler (decide to squeeze out a settler before the granary with the high food in the area)

3700BC
Warrior forts
Scout S S - head south instead of running him into the forest and wasting the 2mp

3650BC
KK grows to size 2 (at +5fpt)
Scout S E

3600BC
Scout E S (spies a brown border across the salty coastal tiles)

3550BC
Scout S S (no land route to brown border)

3500BC
Scout S N reached end of the map this way

3450BC
KK culturally expands & grows to size 3

I could adjust lux to 20% (even with the warrior on MP) sci to 80 but it slows ALPHA from 22 turns to 27
Instead I leave sci at 100% and hire a scientist dropping the turns to ALPHA to only 14, this slows the settler by 1 turn but knocked 8 off the research, we're still at 0gpt

Again I move the worker NW without roading because of the river
Scout NE and sees a CART warrior
Contact CART: 35gold, up MAS & ALPHA, down WC
Trade: buy ALPHA (still 12 turns away) for WC and 1 gold

Scout continues N (now backtracking over exposed map)

Set research to WRIT in 30 turns 100% @ 0gpt

3400BC
worker irriagtes (this allows each city to have 1 irrigated Cow and 1mined Cow)
Scout N N

IBT - CART learns BW

3350BC
Scout NW N

IBT - CART now have CB as well (trade or from a GH?)

3300BC
Scout N N

IBT - KK settler => granary

3250BC
KK now at size 1 - research is slowed but I'll leave it set at 100%
settler SE
Scout N NE

3200BC
Scout N N (finally back to clearing fog)
settler SE
Worker roads the western most cow

3150BC
KK back to size 2 (pickup the pace on WRIT - from 44 to 40 turns)
settler SE to grass tile NE of eastern cow
scout N N

IBT - CART learn Wheel

3100BC
settler founds Ta-Tu (mm KK to the western iCow) set to worker (using the iCow S of KK)
scout W N
2nd city speeds up research to 28 turns

3050BC
worker E S to other iCow tile
scout W N

3000BC
worker roads
scout N E next to a GH

IBT - Most Powerful announced we're 6th, the Carts are last

2950BC
KK size 3 - mm city to the unimproved riverBG and rasie lux to 10% (WRIT still in 22 @90% but could be 19 turns with a 2nd MP)
decide to change Ta-Tu build to a warrior so I can keep research maxed
Scout N (pops GH - get CB) then moves E

2900BC
scout SE E

IBT - Ta-Tu warrior => worker

2850BC
Warrior2 NW towards KK
Have to mm TT now since it grew to size 2, hire sci - WRIT in 15 turns now
Worker SE to river BG
scout N E

2800BC
worker mines
warrior2 NW
scout S S

2750BC
KK size 4 - mm off forest (placed there on growth) to lake food tile - additional commerce gets us down to 11 turns for WRIT
warrior2 to KK for MP
Scout E E meets GER
Contact GER: 1 city, 0 gold, up BW, MAS, Wheel, down nothing - no trades possible

2710BC
Scout S
warrior2 forts in KK

2670BC
scout S

IBT - the GER spear and archer disappear into the northern desert - let's hope they're not coming to visit us
KK granary => settler
TT worker2 => warrior

2630BC
Treasury warning - I only have 9 gold and nothing to trade so I lower sci to 80% leave lux at 10% for WRIT in 12 (vrs 10) @ +1gpt
worker2 SW to cow
scout SE

2590BC
KK to size 5 - forces lux to 20% @ -1gpt (the settler completes in 4 turns then I'll adjust sliders)
worker2 mines the cow
scout SE (in the marshy jungle)

2550BC
worker1 roads
scout S

2510BC
scout SE

saved here on the 31st turn - settler and a warrior due next turn

When prepared both cities should be 4 turn factories (even after corruption)



Here is the save file (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Gator_Mongols2510BC.SAV) if anyone wants it.

Got it. I'm only doing 10 turns, right?

Pre-turn 50: Sent Settler to Kazan. Check funds, we can lower luxury to 10%. Awesomeville will riot next turn so I convert a citizen to a scientist. Raise science to 90%, -2 per turn. Sell Writing for Bronze Working, Ceremonial Burial, and Iron Working.
51: Scouting. Roading. Switch Karakorum to Worker. Move settler to archer, who will go to protect it.
52: Nothing new.
53: Hovd founded in tight formation. Upon closer inspection I don't think it would be better to give up that desert tile to Germany, so that they don't declare war early, which they are more prepared for than we are. We will still control most non-desert squares, so it will not negatively impact us.
54: Same, Still scouting, Curragh spawned. Since I have scouts by Greece, and expect to find no one else in that direction, I will send the Curragh to skirt the western side of the world. Trading situation is dull. There are plenty of un-researched techs, so I believe Republic is in the bag. It depends on how much leverage can be made off Code of Laws. I usually have enough cash at this point to found embassies, but we have none. This would be a priority for me if we weren't rushing for the Slingshot. Army is still much too small for my tastes.
55-57: Dull stuff.
58: Adjust tax/science/lux sliders. 2/8/0, Code in 3.
59: Worker from Karakorum sent to hill, to quickly finish that and connect Tabriz,
60: Tabriz has a nice shield potential. Tabriz now has 5 nearby workers, which can switch to Hovd and Kazan quickly. Ta-Tu micromanaged for extra food, finishes granary in 1. Karakorum set to produce a worker. Code of Laws finishes in 1 turn. An unprotected Settler is going north to claim more grassland squares and expand our empire towards Germany without taking much desert. Press Enter.
61: Saved here, without me micromanaging ANYTHING AT ALL this turn.

Gator, sweet. Much better analysis of first moves and dual settler pump. This could be made into a HoF game w/ that kind of start.

10 turns. Yes.

Archers are for killing something. Just not sure what at the moment. On one hand I see us picking off Germany and taking the incense and on the other I see us going for bigger game in Carthage. We prolly wont be strong enough to take on Carthage soon so I'm guessing we get the luxes first while we research into the Middle Ages and prep for Keshiks and the death of Hannibal.

And I will go out on a very short limb here and predict that the Zulu will declare on us. I can't have a game w/ that fool without him blessing me w/ war happiness and dying miserably under my boot. I hope we get horses 'cuase I hate chasing down Impi.

IMAGE HERE: http://img490.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kompressor6fo.jpg

That pretty much sums it up. It's a general pathway for units for the next few moves or so.

NOTE that germany has the ability to produce swordsmen. I do not think their cities have the shields to be particularly scary, but note that nonetheless. Other than that I see no pressing issues. I would expand northwards first, then southwards, then finally west. Keep a stream of archers until we connect the iron. At that point I'd start a war with CARTHAGE because their terrain is more level than Germany, getting more mileage from the archers. I'd declare first, bribe Germany in with Philosophy/Code of Laws, let them ready their forces for a good 5-10 turns, and THEN attack with archers/spears(/cats?).

Yeah, I forgot about those Numidians. Dammit. Germany would have to be the target of early attacks.

We WILL need cats, since archers vs numid merc is a mismatch.

azzaman333 (1) - Up
jb1964 (1) - On deck
Mr David (1)
Vaiar (1) -
drakdan (1) - Turned 10 around fast!
Mirc - Out until the 13th (See his sig :) )

@drakdan, nice set. I wasn't a fan of the granary in Ta-Tu but it will benefit us. And nice map, nice trades. We have iron! We don't have wheel yet so the horses are still a mystery.

We need to irrigate through a grass tile to get water south and into the plains around Tartar.

@Mirc, ping us when you want the next set and it's yours. Before the 13th we can probably get in two more sets so we'll forge ahead.

Cats, good. NW's bad.

Germany's Hamburg is settled on top of iron. They have very little production capacity.

Bribe Greece to ream Carthage from behind. It seems oddly appropriate.

Question. Should we maybe rethink the whole 10 turns thing? I was able to crank it out in under half an hour. I daresay that if I played the save file from where I left off, I could probably finish the game before JB grabs it. Seems like we will spend more time shuffling the save around than actually playing it.

Bribe Greece to ream Carthage from behind. It seems oddly appropriate.

Won't this mean that by pulling Greece into the war (so that it starts pumping out units) we will strenghten Greece too much and create an immediate threat?
Furthermore, may Carthage drag Germany (or even Zululand) into the war? Should we be prepared for that contingency?

Question. Should we maybe rethink the whole 10 turns thing? I was able to crank it out in under half an hour. I daresay that if I played the save file from where I left off, I could probably finish the game before JB grabs it. Seems like we will spend more time shuffling the save around than actually playing it.

10 turns is standard. That's probably to keep any one player from dominating the direction of the team. Also, as time goes on the turn sets will become longer as MM and worker moves become more plentiful.

I'd be more interested in finding the horses than rushing to war with archers and cats. Keshiks are cheaper knights (60 shields vrs 70) and can retreat which makes them better than archers for a military.

If your slingshot is successful the goal should be to get to Keshiks ASAP, have barracks in your core and be prepared to mass produce Keshiks when your golden age kicks off.

Waiting for Keshiks will put us in a big hole IMO. I doubt we'll keep up with the tech pace at all so by the time we get our UU, they'll be defending with muskets. Or even if they were defending with forted pikes, we'd be at a disadvantage. The point is, the odds are only going to get lower, so we need to knock one AI down and reach as close to tech parity as we can through peace treaties. Then we can have a strong empire once we reach MA and pull ahead through a Keshik golden age.

If we focus too much on military too early, we will have too many archers, which are pretty useless (compared to swords or keshiks) We should be able to keep parity if we can get in the trading circles. (got it)

back after a weekend of senseless IKEA :puke: mayhem.

good that you sold writing. i only wanted to hold on the trade if nobody had it.
once a tech is out there, sell it to the hiest possible gain.
the AI will trade at a discount, and will force you to work for it instead of TWO-FERing it.

regarding military, i would still pump out the archers now.
even dead, they will force the AI to build units.
this will have 2 main effects:
1- it will build units and not settlers and infra.
2- his unit upkeep costs would skyrocket, dumping his sci rate in the bin.

a smart human will ALWAYS (almost :)) win. just fight smart.
defend from hilltops, use plenty of cats, etc.

if we get greece on the fun that will make gerrie fight a 2 front fight, enabling us to pounce at will.

more comments later.

Hiya SW, how's the new flat?

We need to find the horses to determine our Keshik offensive.

G'nite.

As I am not an early war monger (never started one in the ancient age :blush: ), I would like to ask how many units (and which one) you more experienced players would think are necessary to overcome Carthage and Germany at quasi the same time?

Swordsmen will do it on plains, but if you're attacking on hills or against Numidian Mercs, you should also bring along Catapults for good measure. If you're doing a rush-type war, then swordsmen will be fine. If you're initiating a big war against a strong opponent, like Carthage, I'd prefer to declare war, wait a turn or two and absorb their main army in my borders with catapults and horsement, and then charge into their lands.

It would also be good to get a MA with Greece against Cart when you're ready for war. That way the Carts are having to fight a 2 front war.

This also leaves your troops in a position to attack Greece after the Carts. With all the marsh and jungle tiles near Germany, I'd leave them alone and let them clear some of the jungle. Keep trading with them and maybe occassionaly gift them something to keep them happy.

early war?

i would go take out GERMANY first, as im fearful of them NuMerx.
granted those bogs will make for a slower attack, but i still like them odds better.

since cats will have a difficult time crossing over i would focous on ponies and swords to crush germany.
HORSEMEN have a higher survival rate due to its retreat ability, IMHO.

I would use a minimum of 10 swords\horses starting it off, with reinforcements pumping out like mad.

stay focoused and decide on the first 3 towns you want to take.
hint: they should either have resources, lux, or be his core towns.
another option is to get a choke town and hold his advance off.
try and keep a few reserve troops for counter strikes in the beginning, but those can advance too.
dont forget to protect your flanks. Hanni can be a VERY devious scoundrel indeed.

Carthage? i would wait to kill with Keshiks if possible.

if possible, i would also get carthage on with US against GERMANY and then GREECE.
it would have the benefit of stopping his research, weakening his economy and all sorts of good stuff for us.

I'm back at home :)

Turns 1 and 2, 1475 – 1450BC – Cant remember, Word deleted this part. :mad:
Turn 3, 1425 – Darhan is built to the north next to lake and oasis.
Turn 4, 1400 – Not much of interest, other than a worker starts roading some of the marshes towards carthage.
Turn 5, 1375 – Another settler built, this one moves toward iron.
Turn 6, 1350 – A bit of moving, but nothing interesting other than Carthage has started SoZ in Leptis Magna.
Turn 7, 1325 – I notice the ruins of what were probably Greek cities. Someone is at war, and if its Carthage, they are a prime target for a Mongolian assault.
Turn 8, 1300 – Philo in 1 turn, Sword Factory founded 1N of the iron, which will be connected in 3 turns. Notice a german sword near carthage. :hmm:
Turn 9, 1275 - ****! We’ve been beaten to philo! No free mongolian republic… :cry: Start moving new settler to silk, planning on settling the more east silk to the west, if that makes any sense whatsoever :crazyeye:
Turn 10, 1250 – I suspect Germany attacked Greece, but I have no evidence to back that up.

azzaman333 (2) - Just Played
jb1964 (1) - On deck
Mr David (1)
Vaiar (1) -
drakdan (1) - Turned 10 around fast!
Mirc - Up

I'm back at home

Then you're up. :)

Ok, I will play. Got the save.

BTW, jb, I have a black cat too.

Off topic,

OK Mirc, what do you compete in? Chess, dog-shows, archery?

Classical Guitar. I have over 60 prizes only at classical guitar, and since I started playing (10 years ago, when I was four) this is the first contest where I didn't take ANY prize and I DIDN'T EVEN MAKE IT TO THE FINAL ROUND!!!!! :eek: Unbelievable for me, and a huge loss of money that could even cause me to lose my house! So many very important people (like Hubert Kappel, Nikita Koshkin, Leo Brouwer, Costas Cotsiolis, Carlo Marchione and many others) told me that I could be the best in Europe at my category (they really told me, I'm not joking). I won many international contests and this is the first one where I got nothing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The difference between European and American thinking is that the Americans are looking for players who did CD recordings and the Europeans are looking for winners of the competitions. For example, Manuel Barrueco probably didn't win any competition in his life, but since he was born in Cuba, he had acces to the USA great marketing style and thus became a very important guitarist.

I don't know if I will be able to play today, but I still believe that I will.

looked at save.
a general look-see
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a113/soul_warrior/JB1_sw_3.jpg

you could lower lux and raise sci, saving 1 turn and earning 3 more gpt.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a113/soul_warrior/JB1_sw_6.jpg
dots recommended along a view of the empire.
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a113/soul_warrior/JB1_sw_9.jpg
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a113/soul_warrior/JB1_sw_5.jpg
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a113/soul_warrior/JB1_sw_4.jpg
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a113/soul_warrior/JB1_sw_8.jpg
Fort Apache is KEY to future conquest. just place a few cats, archers and a spear or 2, and see the waves crash on the walls.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a113/soul_warrior/JB1_sw_7.jpg

Fort Apache is KEY to future conquest. just place a few cats, archers and a spear or 2, and see the waves crash on the walls.
And some swords, now we can build them.
Sorry I couldn't play yesterday. I will play today though.
We get about 1 unit every turn, so we will have more troops soon. There are so many troops in Ta-Tu and you talk about a Fort Apache city. Are we planning to attack Carthage? If yes, then why don't we attack Germany first? Carthage has the Numidian.

In my turnset, i started a few towns on pure military, which incresed the number of archer we had. we did have 1 or 2 beofre the lsat 10.

<snip> Are we planning to attack Carthage? If yes, then why don't we attack Germany first? Carthage has the Numidian.

German land are too crappy. I'd save them until later. Carthage looks lik they could become a power house if we dont take action now.

SW, that is not a choke, one NW is a choke, cause units cant go throuh a lake.:D :p

I played azzaman333's first save pretty close to what we have here and did get the Republic Slingshot. I bet we missed it by a turn.

BTW, what's the republic slingshot?

BTW, what's the republic slingshot?

Republic slingshot is when you research Code of Law prior to researching Philosophy, then still being the first Philososphy and selecting Republic as your free tech. This is easyily done on levels lower than Emperor, but can be done on Emperor.

SW, makes a good point about the state of your empire. Personally I'd still wait for your UU before attacking.

You research CoL and only then Philosophy, to take Republic for free

Edit: too late :yup:

Thank you. Right now I'm going to play!

I played. Didn't have time to write a turn log, but here are the most important events:
2 new cities founded (Silk Generator and Fort Apache); the promising coast line from the north west of the continent actually leads to a 2-square island; all cities (except one) are connected to Silks; 6 Archers (iirc) and 1 sword are placed in Fort Apache, 2 archers are on their way, 1 sword will be done in Ta-Tu the next turn.

The SAVE (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Temujin_of_the_Mongols,_1000_BC.SAV)



Now a funny thing about civ colors:
http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/2265/redoryellow1ki.jpg

azzaman333 (2) -
jb1964 (1) - Up
Mr David (1) -
Vaiar (1) -
drakdan (1) -
Mirc (1) - Just played

I got it and will begin playing late this evening. Mr. David, how quickly can you begin your 10 turns?

Turn 0 – 1000 BC
I changed the regular archer builds to cats.
Ft. Apache switches to a barracks which may be needed for in-between healing.
And on final thought I’m putting Ta-Tu to a settler so we can continue to expand both North and South.
Turn 1 – 975 BC
Moving some unit back because a German sword is looking frisky.
Looks like there has been some warring in the South.
I traded for HBR and sold Philo to Germany. CoL is nearly worthless.
Turn 2 – 950 BC
Making workers.
Turn 3 – 925 BC
German sword steps into our territory.
Build Tsetserleg and Baruun-Urt.
Turn 4 – 900 BC German sword steps through.
Turn 5 – 875 BC Nothing
Turn 6 – 850 BC Nothing
Turn 7 – 825 BC Build Ereen
Turn 8 – 800 BC Nothing
Turn 9 – 775 BC Nothing
Turn 10 – 750 BC Nothing

OK, I built 8 more workers. We had too many undeveloped tiles being worked.
Two setters are making thier way to locations marked on SW dot map.
Yes we need an army, but we need to claim the land.
We're 4 turns from Republic. Once in Republic the first thing to do IMHO is to kill off the warriors.

:crazyeye: It's been awhile since I've checked this thread. I'll take it, but can you give me the rundown of what our short term goals are for now?

Hiya MrD,

Republic is due in 4 turns so you get to lead us through the anarchy. I envision us revolting to Rep as soon as it comes in. You'll need to MM all the cities to keep them from rioting. Hire a specialist when you can do without an entertainer.

The short-term goals are to continue making settlers and workers to claim and improve our lands. Always try to not waste worker movements. You don’t want to send a worker anywhere that will take two turns to get there. If the worker’s final destination is over a river see if you can have him work a few tiles on the way without having to absorb the movement penalty.

After the revolt I would disband every warrior. And since the units no longer serve as MP’s we can pull units on our western front to the East for the attack. But be sure we have a few archers/swords sprinkled about for the inevitable landing of the lone unit next to the undefended city.

I would continue w/ cats in cities that do not have a barracks and swords elsewhere. We’re going to have to attack Carthage to get the horses.

Afterwards we need to look at trades. We did not do a very good job of trading CoL around. There are still a few Civ's that do not have it but any suggestion of using it to get another tech was deemed insulting. We can also trade Rep to whomever we intend to invade in hopes that they will also revolt just prior to our attack. At Emperor the AI's anarchy is probably no more tha two turns but I'll take any advantage that's available.

Managing our empire while in Rep will be interesting. We intend to warmonger a bit so we will deal w/ WW. We also need to keep trying to pick up monopoly techs. However, we will also be able to collect techs for any Civ we're about to eliminate.

Once we take our continent (we're going for a domination win) we'll skinny down the troops, crank out the workers and settlers and reseach our way to find our "fiends" over the sea. Suicide galleys will have to do until we get there. Given the size of this continent I have go to believe there's a short route there.

Next time anyone gets one of the pop-ups that ranks the Civs please take note of those that we have not yet met. I seem to remember that one was the Babylonians.

Synopsis:
1) Research to Rep and revolt
2) Continue settling and improving the land!
3) Make worker/settlers from those towns working undeveloped tiles and those that cause us to need an additional 10% on the entertainment slider.
4) Cats and swords from non-barrack and barracked cities respectively when not making workers and settlers.

Comments, input, ect.?

You could check the spacerace window. Also, is switching to republic the best idea at the moment? Unit support will murder us since we don't have size 7 towns or marketplaces. I used to do immediate switches to republic, but I've found that despotism, with the unit support and MP can be better in the short term.

You could check the spacerace window. Also, is switching to republic the best idea at the moment? Unit support will murder us since we don't have size 7 towns or marketplaces. I used to do immediate switches to republic, but I've found that despotism, with the unit support and MP can be better in the short term.

This is an excellent point. I used to wait until I had achieved short term military goals and captured a few more luxuries. Then I went to an immediate switch since that was the example in each SGoTM I had played.

I can go either way.

Draken - hold off
JB - dunno
others?

Come on, nobody observed the thing with the civ colors?

Yep, I did: yellow and red, right? :p

I agree with jb's plan, sounds fine :goodjob:

Nevertheless, how is WW on emperor level with republic?

Right, yellow and red.

BTW, everyone is changing their avatars now(me, azzaman, Vaiar).

I'll play soon.

So are we going to immediately revolt, or wait to develop more infrastructure so our economy doesn't die?

Also, what tech should I go for after finishing Republic? Stop research?

I'm not sure what techs are available. We probably should resort to the "what will the AI research next" page. I think someone already put it in this thread.

One thing we don't want to do is go through our Golden Age while in Despot. Big waste.

MrD, can you play up to the completion of Rep and then post for some analysis and feedback?

Preturn: Looks good. I'm assuming we are gathering our troops in Fort Apache?

Enter...

IT: Silk Generator- Cat>Cat
Incans finish Pyramids... I guess we won't be capturing it anytime soon.

1. Bunch of moving around. Lots of workers! That's very nice.

IT: Kazan: Worker>Sword(?)

2. Nothing

IT: Tatu: Sword>Sword

3. Found Choyr

IT: Republic comes in...

Options for research:
Literature, Construction, Currency, Polytheism and Map Making. We can get Poly, Maps and Construction with Republic so should we turn off research or try for currency?

Also, Revolt or not? I'm guessing we'll revolt
http://img322.imageshack.us/img322/3051/revolt5zm.jpg

SenorDavid, can you post the save?

Err, had to leave that screen so I had to accept the revolt. Saw nothing gamebreaking.

Here's the save one turn before Republic finishes. Nothing new happened. But, directly after you finish Republic, you can go to Big-Pic, trade advisor and I saw that you can reach tech parity with trades.

Removed by JB

Wait wait, I didn't finish my turns yet. You suggested that I stop after researching Repub for analysis and decision. I'm still waiting for a consensus on revolting or not

OK, totally misread your post.

OK, research can be pulled back to 50% and still get Rep in one turn.
Capitol looks good.
I would let Tar-tar grow and change build to a sword. It has the developed tile to work.
Batshiret should not build a warrior. I would make it a worker factory for now.
The barracks in Ereena and Baruun-Urt were pre-builds for needed harbors. That is if we get the tech which will work if we research Maps, Poly and Lit. Make Lit last.
Ya know, the real good news is that the incense and the ivory are pretty darn close.

OK, whatcha ya’ll think of this….
1) We don’t have near enough troops to attack Carthage.
2) We have a lock on Rep and the AI is unlikely to go for it.
3) At 80% we can get Maps/Lit or Poly in 8/8 or 7 respectively.
4) The Statue of Zeus is being constructed in Leptis Magna.

If we take 20 or so turns to collect Lit and a few other techs we may be able to trade ourselves into the next age w/ Rep & Lit. If lucky we could even get a tech in the next age. This will be the turn, or turn prior, to attack Carthage.

The trigger to attack Carthage will be the completion of SoZ!!!

Collect swords, cats and some archers in the desert just outside the Leptis boarders.

Everything might not line up exactly but here’s how I hope it goes…
Units pile in the dessert.
SoZ completes.
Make shrewd trades.
Check for Carthage in Anarchy. If so, even better. If still in Despot give it a turn.
No matter Carthage’s government we should declare.

It would be nice to hold a tech or something back to pull Greece and maybe Germany into the fray.

Within 20 turns we’ll have the horses and ivory.
Make peace w/ Carthage and screw them out of anything we can.
Revolt to Republic and build keshiks.
Dow on Germany and collect the incense.

I think this is far enough into the future.

Comments?

I do like, but how about that thar Great Library? I always take a stab at it, and while we should research up to Chivalry ASAP for early Keshiks, we can drop the research rate to zero after that. Ideally, I'd like to revolt right before we end the war with Carthage and use some Keshiks to trigger a GA the first turn we get out of Anarchy. This would get the Golden Age at the onset of The Republic, and then we can then use cash flow from GL/GA to rush Marketplaces and Aqueducts, which will solve our cash flow problems once we're out of the Golden Age.
Only problem (but it's a biggie) is that we'd end up being slow out of Despotism and slow researching the 3 middle-age techs we want. Especially important would be seeing if we can trade Republic around for Feudalism or Monotheism. Either one would make me say go.

I think we can afford to chase the Great Library as well as the Statue of Zues. If we should revolt now, and/or time it to coincide with a GA and high-revenue period is up to you guys, but that's an idea I'd like to try out.

TBH, i hate the Great Lib.

Ok, I'll play tonight.

:mad: I won't be able to play today as an uni-assignment is getting out of hand. Will Drakdan or Mirc take my place for now? I can play tomorrow afternoon or evening after them. Ok?

Umm, I think we're waiting for David to post his final 6 turns.

The concensus at the moment seems to be to hold off on the government switch.

We don't need to build the SoZ because Carthage is building it for us just over the boarder. The moment that thing finishes we trade/give Hannibal Republic and then declare.

Also, I don't want to promote Wonder Addiction but we could probably pick a city to start tossing sheilds into a pre-build. I'm not very good at the long range planning thingy.

azzaman333 (2) -
jb1964 (2) -
Mr David (1.4) - 48 hours since post of first 4 turns.
Vaiar (1 -
drakdan (1) -
Mirc (1) - Fair game

I'm going to be posting the roster like this to see how it works. Anyone who's "Fair game" that posts an "I got it" is Up.
I'm tracking total number of turns played so nobody get's ignored. However, if you go on and extended absence (vacation, whatever...) we'll park you off the list until you return.

Vaiar can play before me. Or mirc. But I want it after those 10 please. Or not, I can still take it.

Vaiar, please play, I can't play today and tomorrow only late.

I'll play this afternoon ;)

Good luck then!

K = capital
T= Ta-Tu
Tab = Tabriz
Tar = Tar-Tar
Ts = Tsetserleg
H = Hoyd
FA = Fort Apache
U = Ulaanbatar
SW: Sword Factory
D = Darhan

Pre-game 690 BC Following JB's advice -> research to 50%, Tar-Tar changed to swordsmen. Batshireet changed to worker. No revolt when obtaining rep. is the consensus.
670 BC Ts: curragh > curragh, K: settler > settler, settler will go between H and FA. Research MM at 80%, no trading Rep. according to JB's plan (at least my interpretation of it).
650 BC H: Worker > Sword
630 BC: Carthage is building the GL. Only worker moves.
610 BC: U: sword > sword K: Settler > settler Stopped growth in Tab to avoid CD next turn.
590 BC: SW: catapult > catapult. D: catapult > catapult. Ulaangom founded > worker
570 BC: There is somekind of small Zulu warband coming to us near FA; it hasn't entered our territory yet though. We'll see what they want next turn. FA possesses sufficient troops to take them out if needed. TS: curragh > barracks
550 BC: This sucks: the Zulu warband enters our territory. I position archers to prevent further trespassing. I doubt Shaka's good intentions though. Personally I find the Zulus the most annoying civ, even if you are located far away from them, they always seek war.
530 BC: The Zulu warband backs off, intimidated by the Mongol display of strength Though some units are still on our territory. Totsonsengel found > worker. We discovered MM > Literature. I reconfigured T to prevent CD from happening the next turn.
510 BC: The Zulu warband encompassing six units moves further N. Our suicide curragh seems to contain Columbus and goes on and on. D > scientist to prevent CD. Ts: barracks build changed into harbor.
490 BC: WEEEEHHHHHH, the air sirens go off. A Zulu impi disembarked from a galley near an undefended city, Darhan, to the NW. What now? I dispatched a swordsman to Darhan, but it stopped just before the city. In the mean time the Zulu warband to the E has grown into seven impatient units I guess we'll have a nice little war with our African pals next turn. Our response is up to the next player. Good luck!! :shake:

http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/1309/vaiar490bc0mb.jpg

When the Zulu declare war, get EVERYONE in military alliances against them. Especially Greece and Carthage, since their 3 defense unit should cut down the number of aggresive troops.

Pre-Turn: Send another Swordsman to Darhan. Change Capital to Courthouse to prebuild for Great Library. Reduce science slider to get Literature in 6 turns. Send all nearby army units into Apache Fort. Send Settler south. I do some micromanagement in cities. I tell Zulu to get lost, they declare. I use catapults in Fort Apache to bombard 2 archers, then attack with a Veteran Swordsman, who gets promoted. I don't attack the second archer because that swordsman would get attacked and killed next turn. I switch a northern city from Barracks to Catapult.

Turn 1: Darhan Taken. Use catapults on Zulu stack. Regular archer attacks lone reg-warrior, dies. Swordsmen kill 4 warriors, 1 Impi, and I send a swords to chase the lone survivor archer. Darhan retaken at the cost of a swordsman. I set it to catapult. I switch Ulaangom to Galley so I can suprise them germans later. I can not bribe Greece or Carthage to join me against the Zulu. Kudus to whoever can guess why. I send the curragh off the side of the map on a suicide run. He dies next turn. I also switched Tabriz from Swordsman to worker, finishes next turn.

Turn 2: Re-distribute some swordsmen around our little corner of the planet so they can protect against zulu landings. I see the Zulu have more impis coming along. I send my swordsmen back into Fort Apache. Kazan and Tabriz set to produce workers. My immediate goals are to finish literature, start the Great Library, and get more workers. I would like to have another 10 before I finish this turnset, but I think I'll end up producing a mere 4-6. I send an archer at the weakened archer who is right outside our border.

Turn 3: Tseterleg produces a harbor, I order a galley. Weakened archer attacks veteran archer, wins. Chernobyl founded in the south, I send a swordsman down to guard those three undefended cities. Catapults bombard an Impi and Archer, I finished with Swordsmen. Embassies founded in Carthage and Germany. So far the Zulu have caused us more damage than we did them in this war. Greece has entered the Middle Ages

Turn 4: Leptis Magna finishes the Statue of Zues. I want to take it. Literature finished, Karokorum set to Great Library in 24. Research set to zero Luxury rate adjusted up to 10% (+52 Gold Per Turn) . Impi is dancing around outside of Fort Apache, but not within range. I can have men outside of Leptis in 4 turns, taken in 5. Ulaanbataar switched to Spearman, as is Tartar. Tabriz switched to Spearman too. Ta-Tu switched to Settler. I hope to use 2 galleys to land 3 spearmen and a settler on top of Carthage's horse resource.

Turn 5: Zulu finish Temple of Artemis. Impi moves into range, and is killed. Embassy founded in Greece. I suddenly notice that I have another Curragh. I send it to watch the border between Germany and Zulu, to warn of impending ships. Galley in Tsetserleg finishes in 1 turn, thanks to chopped forest. Ulaangoom goes into disorder. Dammit. Workers sent to finish road.

Turn 6: Galley finished, sent to near Carthage. Swordsmen are there, Spearman is enroute, I switch Tabriz to Swordsman, Hovd finishes Swordsman and goes to worker. Micro Karokorum to finish Great Library two turns faster. Set Tosontsengal to Barracks.

Turn 7: Greece has Republic. I trade it around for Currency, Polytheism, Construction, and 30 gold. I send Fort Apache's defenders towards Leptis Magna. Greece will declare on the Zulu and give me 13 gold if I give them a Right of Passage. Done. Road Runner scout can now roam Greece and use roads for recon.

Turn 8: Leptis Magna's culture expands. My troops are on the edge, and if we want war now is the time. I can wait 3 turns so my Galley is in position. I Investigate Leptis Magna. Carthage has 0 gold, is in anarchy, and has only a Numidian Merc and an Ancient Calvary for defense. I moved Apache Fort's army without knowing this. I'd move two swordsmen back to Fort Apache, since they will not be needed and Apache Fort has other Carthaginian cities nearby.

I will stop here for the moment. What say ye people, attack Carthage, take Leptis Magna and the Horses? (Settler will take 4 turns to finish, Galley will take 4 to get in position.) Or leave Carthage. Now is the best time to go for it. They have Ivory, the Statue premade for us, and that 6 pop town will be subdued in 1-3 turns, temple rushed in the 4th for culture, and we can just sit tight there until we want to end the war.
Also, I am going to state again for the record I think we should stay in despotism a little longer.
http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/1833/carthago2dh.th.jpg (http://img216.imageshack.us/my.php?image=carthago2dh.jpg)

I say: "Go, go, go!!" I hope we can take Carthage and LM within a few turns of one another. Don't forget yo upload the save though.

So now who is up? Me?

Yeah you, but there's no save-file. :rolleyes:

Oh, I didn't notice this unimportant detail!

It was more of a "What should I do next?" I didn't post the save because I got 2 turns left.
Should we attack Carthage, which DOES have the Statue built, as well as horses?

Ok then, when you're ready and finish your set I will play.

So...Carthage is not done with the SoZ?

Carthage has completed the SoZ and we need it now. It's unfortunate that the boarders have expanded. We should back out and the declare. Gear the entire Empire to war. The combat settler to cover the Carthage horses is a great idea. We need Greece in on this against one or the other.

We've fallen back in tech. Can we please take a look at possible trades, etc. before we go on? We should be looking at trades after each tech has completed.

looking nice folks.

trade! trade! trade!

take out LM and that lux ASAP

stay in despot a bit longer.
did the zulu declare? if so we get free war-happiness, so make sure to keep them spearchucks in war mode.

after the near fututre goals are met (ACs and another lux) revolt and crush Carthage.

:nono: on the GLib. try pushing techs to CHIVALRY.
the GLib's 600 sheilds should be made into ponies and other units (think upgrades. even though its pretty expensive)
600 shields = 1 Great lib or 20 horses (30s x 20 ponies). get the picture? ;)

you should all try quiting your wonder habit.
recite after me:
can i kick it? YES I CAN

Great Library = Wonder Addiction

20 Horses aren't anything special. I'd rather think of it as 10 Keshiks, which stil isn't special, especially when compared to the fact that you can turn down your research rate to zero and buy them. And don't call wonder addiction because someone builds a single wonder, because it's a fantastic investment.

Turn 8: Declare War, move in.

Turn 9: Workers build roads and begin some mines. I move units closer to the southern coastline because the Greeks have a galley coming our way. This will avoid anything like Darhan from happening twice. 1 Ancient Calvary attacks, and takes out a swordsman. I counter with an archer, which kills the Calvary. There is also an IMPI nearby, which I ignore. All men moved closer to Leptis Magna. An Archer is moved from Ta-Tu to defend Fort Apache.

Turn 10: Several Carthaginian warriors come into view around Leptis Magna/Fort Apache. Swordsman wounds an Impi, which retreats. A swordsman and 2 archers are near Apache waiting to mop up weaker units.

Turn 11: Opps, played this too. Fought off the enemy, landed a Spearman and Swordsman by Carthage, and loaded a swordsman onto the Galley. And, LORDY, Germany and the Zulu have allied against us. The Zulu are willing to accept a peace treaty, but we have allied Greece against them. I think we can absorb anything else the Zulu send. We should make peace as soon as possible so we can wreck the zulu's reputation. (Which I'm convinced the AI ignores anyways, but what the heck.) Catapults are redirected towards Batshireet. I decide the 4 swords will have to deal for the moment. Carthage has a Galley coming around near the top. WATCH IT. If it heads west it has troops. East means no troops. Our COMBAT SETTLER can load onto the Galley if it moves 2 spaces along the road and the Galley moves to ocean spaces up.

Turn 12: Aww hell I just had to see what happens. I saved right after I started it, and I won't say what I saw, except that Carthage wasted their Numidian Merc by Apache Fort attacking an archer and losing. The next guy gets to watch the rest.

I personally believe that a fast research pace tis the key to victory in wars. If you get a tech lead, you dont want to sacrifice it by building the GL and turning off research.

20 Horses aren't anything special. I'd rather think of it as 10 Keshiks, which stil isn't special, especially when compared to the fact that you can turn down your research rate to zero and buy them.
well, agreed, 10 keshiks are also very nice ;)
but think of this,
we get 20 horses. these can and often do retreat.
they can move VERY fast covering lots of ground, and SPEED IS KEY
when we get to chivalry we TURN SCIENCE OFF for a while.
the new income is used to upgrade those ponies into Keshiks, all the while producing more keshiks.
if science is dropped only for about 20 turns, you should be able to have 20 (minus casualties) keshiks, and then turn science back up.

if you have to rely on the AI to study for you, you will wait another 100+ turns to get to chivalry.
my way gets you there much quicker.

And don't call wonder addiction because someone builds a single wonder, because it's a fantastic investment.
agreed a single wonder does not an addiction make, but still, you should try a game with NO WONDERS at all :eek:

maybe after this one is done JB or myself can host such a training game :confused: eh, JB? up for it?

maybe after this one is done JB or myself can host such a training game eh, JB? up for it?

Totally up for it.

Gang, we need to pay close attention to MM'ing the cities. Look one or two turns ahead on your builds and if you can work tiles with more gold and still bring in the unit in the same number of turns then go for the GOLD.

Also, we need to honor our agreement w/ Greece for the entire 20 turns. I don't know that we'll need a pristine reputation but if we do we'll be screwed if we break it off now.

Please look at all posible trades when we get a knew tech. Have we tried to find out what we can get for Rep?

azzaman333 (2) -
jb1964 (2) -
Mr David (1.4) -
Vaiar (2) -
drakdan (2.1) - Just Played
Mirc (1) - UP

Please look at all posible trades when we get a knew tech. Have we tried to find out what we can get for Rep?

I traded Republic earlier on. I'm pretty sure I wrote it all down, but I was able to trade into the middle ages. This is what caused Carthago to revolt. Any weigh in on my decisions thusfar?

I think we're all doing OK.

As we have seen we had Gator give a lesson on scouting the territory and coming up w/ a better initial build plan. Per his suggestion, I took the start and set up two settler factories, which was aided by popping a settler, and expanded like a virus.

I have also taken a few of the team's early posts and played forward. Paying close attention to the gold I was able to beat the AI's to Philo.

So Gator pointed out that the starting moves needed more analysis rather than my knee-jerk reaction. And I've found that while we're doing well we could be doing a bit better.

The first time the Zulu came knocking I would not given them a chance to decide on the attack and order them out. That would have certainly led to a DoW but given us the chance to attack first. I'm surprized that they actually turned back on the "show of force" The Zulu just suck.

I do not think we should be going for the GL. I would look to see what we can get out of Libs like yesterday. I think SW's advice is good.

We take LM and SoZ, which we might have already done. Starve it down to 1 to reduce the flip risk. Make nice w/ Hannibal. We now also have ivory!

On the German front we fight until we have the incense.

Don't break our agreement w/ Alex!

Probably right about the time we turn our attention to Bismarck we revolt to Rep.

When the Keshik's come rolling in we can do some pointy stick research and use the Golden Age to maybe grab a wonder. I have always liked happiness wonders like HG's. :)

Random thoughts and stuff from JB. :crazyeye:

How could you guys have posted the last few days? When I tried to access the forum I was redirected to some vague site. :(

I haven't thet problem. Try to scan your computer for viruses or spyware ;)

No problem logging in either. Spyware or something of that ilk I suspect.

Azzaman, you can take if you want and we 'll work Mirc in when he's active again. If neither of you two take you'll be tempting me beyond what I can be reasonably expected to resist. :)

No problem logging in either. Spyware or something of that ilk I suspect.

Azzaman, you can take if you want and we 'll work Mirc in when he's active again. If neither of you two take you'll be tempting me beyond what I can be reasonably expected to resist. :)

If you want it soo much, you can take it before me. i prefer peace times tbh.

Why do we have a number of grassland tiles irrigated? It’s a waste of worker moves unless you’re going to bring the water to plains. Some of the irrigation is just going into grass. Not good.
We’re chopping the jungle next to Ta-Tu when we should have chopped the forest and then tossed down a mine in the same time.
We have also roaded the mountain by Silk Generator. It would have been better to have continued roading to the tip of the peninsula or mine the iron hill.

OK, we ply Alex w/ Libs and now is at war w/ the Germans and Carthage as well. That ought to keep them nice and stupid.

We’ll, we’re only 11 turns from the GL so I guess we have to finish it. I'm bringing in workers to fix the irrigation and mine the hill.

Leptis is being starved to pop 1 to prevent a flip. We'll also be crushing a few towns in the neighborhood.

Many units were left on auto-move. Although they’re heading probably were they belong it’s better to leave the movement for the next player.

Combat settler is dropped on horses and later settles. BTW, this was a nice idea.

We’ve got swords dispersed about to discourage a random landing.

The Dance...
Wanting to get into the German's face I approach the hills and are met by two MI's. We step back and hope to coax them into the desert. The MI's keep moving back and forth and keep stepping up w/ more units. Finally 5 MI's step into the desert and away from the hills and for some stupid reason the pike separates. We reward this foolishness by bombing and slicing the 5 German MI’s at the loss of a sword. To rub it in we go after the pike getting an elite win and a GL.

We take Carthage and abandon it.
LM is starved to one and will build a racks. Man, why didn’t I use the peeps to make it! Stupid.

The horses and ivory are connected! Happiness and Keshik pre-builds.

We’re making mucho horses.
I’m tempted to use the GL for a FP, although a Keshik army would be killer. I make an army and park him for keshiks.

We take Utica and add furs to the list of luxes.

Well we got the Great Lib and pull in Fued and Mono. Chivalry is next. In hindsight that’s going to work well for us because we’ve been in Despotism way too long.

The GL earned us Chivalry so we can build Keshiks now.

We take Theveste.

Many gallies go down just at the boarders across the waters. We'll keep trying.

OK, we're at a crossroads. We can trigger our GA in no time at all but there's no way in hell we want to do that while in Despot. We have only a few turns left on our agreement w/ Alex so here's my idea.

Revolt to Republic now. When we come out the other end we can start our GA and research towards Mil Tradition.

Some concerns...
We've been at war a long time and we could drop into Rep w/ a buttload of war weariness.
After triggering the GA we may want to make peace all the way around and prep for the overrun of the continent. Abandon warriors and non-elite swords.

Input?

I was in Turkey these days. Sorry!

What's the current roster? Who has to play? :confused:

you're up mirc.

After complaining about units left on auto-move I found that I had done exactly that w/ the galleys and cat. I corrected it and reloaded the file. :blush:

Ok, but I can't play today (I think). Tomorrow I'm sure I will, but today I have to learn a lot and to get up at 5 am.

I don't know about you, but at the moment we are in quite the offensive position. I'd rather not tech towards Calvary and instead go to 0 research rate. Is there another continent? We probably should think about suicide galleys. Revolt immediately, if you haven't already. The 4 luxuries and a nice big lux rate as we go into republic can control the dissent. From there we can adjust the rate down, continue the war, and trigger the GA. Again, I must reccomend a peaceful GA where we build primarily Marketplaces. I'd also like to rush build improvements in the Capitol and use that again for another wonder, but you guys can decide that.

@drakan, I think you hit the nail on the head.

Revolt, war, trigger GA when in Rep, find the other continent.

We have been running a number of gallies over the ocean that have only have gotten as close as to find the outline of another civ but sank. Keep sending them.

The level of WW will be interesting once we get over the revolt but I think we can handle it.