Reloading
You may not reload a save file to play parts of the game again. You may only load a save file to start a new play session. We recommend that you aim to play sessions of at least one hour in duration.
The case by case situations of reload-problem submissions has been on the rise lately, so I thought this might be worth a thread specific reminder to everyone.

We know not all players have the time (or sometimes desire) to play a full hour every time you play, but be advised that anything less a half an hour session may not meet Hall of Fame standards.

I hope you keep in mind the fact that there are some people that are having problems with the game.

Lately I have had some random slowdowns (slowing the game down to a crawl).

Never had this problem in earlier patches... the bummer is that once it starts slowing down there is no fix but reboot and that only buys me another 5-10 minutes (or less) of non-crawl play.

I hope you keep in mind the fact that there are some people that are having problems with the game.
There's not an exception for that in the rules.

@Craterus22 : I think many people have some problems with stability, however I think the patterns for saving abuse and autosave usage after Back to Desktop Freeze or graphic sluggishness are different. I guess it will be relatively easy to distinguish between cheaters and players having stability problems.

@Craterus22 : I think many people have some problems with stability, however I think the patterns for saving abuse and autosave usage after Back to Desktop Freeze or graphic sluggishness are different. I guess it will be relatively easy to distinguish between cheaters and players having stability problems.

he said there were no exceptions for that in the rules - too bad for us...

i have a question.İF i have two other win-wp in my computer (it was easy.) and İF i install them different folders like c and f.and İF i install the Civ 4 to these different folders too.how can you understand that i was reloading the game from the orginal Civ 4 game???.i mean any guy can check for the map with world builder.maybe if the guy is a chaeter he can copy the save file to the other civ4 folder and can use it.:confused: :confused:

i have a question.İF i have two other win-wp in my computer (it was easy.) and İF i install them different folders like c and f.and İF i install the Civ 4 to these different folders too.how can you understand that i was reloading the game from the orginal Civ 4 game???.i mean any guy can check for the map with world builder.maybe if the guy is a chaeter he can copy the save file to the other civ4 folder and can use it.:confused: :confused:

Why do you want to know? The only two possible reasons I can see are 1) curiosity or 2) you want to cheat without getting caught. I don't think reason 1 is a valid enough reason to help people do number 2. It's best if not much is said on how cheaters get caught, and just assume that if you cheat you will get caught, so don't do it.

I guess it will be relatively easy to distinguish between cheaters and players having stability problems.
Sadly, it's not easy since some reloaders hide under the crash excuse.

I'm not heartless when it comes to crash-prone players. Due to early instability in the game, we weren't even looking at reloads much. Now that 1.52 is out however, the reload numbers are considerably more "honest". I do realize that some crashers aren't able to compete due to reload enforcement, but keeping a few players out is a small price to pay to keep the malicious and/or ignorant reloaders out of the competitions.

i have a question.İF i have two other win-wp in my computer (it was easy.) and İF i install them different folders like c and f.and İF i install the Civ 4 to these different folders too.how can you understand that i was reloading the game from the orginal Civ 4 game???.i mean any guy can check for the map with world builder.maybe if the guy is a chaeter he can copy the save file to the other civ4 folder and can use it.:confused: :confused:
There's actually more than one way to detect this specific cheat alone, but as Shillen pointed out, I'm not going to divulge those secrets.

Why do you want to know? The only two possible reasons I can see are 1) curiosity or 2) you want to cheat without getting caught. I don't think reason 1 is a valid enough reason to help people do number 2. It's best if not much is said on how cheaters get caught, and just assume that if you cheat you will get caught, so don't do it.

hmm.i dont need to cheat.i am an elite player.
i really want to know how they can understand it because realoding and using worldbuilder is a cheat.if i am trying to get good points without cheating i think it is my right to learn that are all players using the same rules like me.:aargh:

People, some things in life you have to take on faith.

superslug, Dianthus and the rest of us staff are committed to creating and running a fair and hopefully fun Civ4 Hall of Fame. Revealing details such as A_Turkish_Guy is asking for could make doing that more difficult. Would you post a sign outside your house detailing your family's comings-and-goings and the technical details of your house's security systems? I think not. Why make it easy for a would-be thief.

All the HoF asks is that players read and follow the posted rules, treat others with respect and patience, and try to have fun. Please remember, the HoF is a "Beta" right now. The idea is for all of us to learn about the game while Firaxis works through the patching process.

If someone has questions about something they are seeing in the HoF, there are constructive ways to raise issues in a public forum. IMHO, LulThyme's post here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=3560572&postcount=5) is a good example. Sending a PM to superslug or staff is also an acceptable way to raise concerns. When people publically yell "cheat", it may provoke some action but it also calls into question the sportmanship of the individuals doing the yelling.

superslug's policy, which I think is very wise, is to deal with issues about games individually and privately. Things are rarely black and white. Sometimes we have to err on the side of caution.All the more reason to keep the details private.

I am not trying to single anyone out. One of the best aspects of CFC is the community. I would hate to see us mess it up.

Damn. How'd that soapbox get there. (step down) :mischief:

Nice soapbox Denniz ;). I think we *can* mention WorldBuilder though. The HOF rules require the "No Cheating" option to be set, which stops WorldBuilder being used.

I understand we are allowed to regenerate the map 100+ times if we want to until we get something we like. Assuming that's true, here's what I might do...
1) generate 10 maps and start playing #10
2) decide #10 is not so good and try to move on to another map.

I can't regen again after 4000BC, so I can either reload the initial and have to sit through the same 10 regen maps until getting #11, or save #10 at 4000 BC before I start playing it. Then I can load up #10's 4000 BC file and continue regenerating map #11.

Still with me? Here's the problem. My playback will show "Session 2 starts" at 4000 BC. Won't that look like I played the map for a while, then reloaded it and played it all again?

If these sumbissions are going to get thrown out, then you should let everyone know that they only get one shot at regenerating maps. Once a game is started, you have to go all the way back to the custom game screen to start again. (Which, btw, wouldn't be so bad if that screen would remember the last settings you used, including opponents).

@WastinTime: We are aware of the effects caused by using the Regenerate Map option. We are taking it into consideration during the Beta. The extra 4000BC sessions are less of a concern, IMHO, at this point than the lack of a 4000BC file after regen. It makes it very easy to submit the wrong starting file. Hopefully, as you say, Firaxis will address all these issues.

Here here...

The Session 2, Session 3 etc thing at 4000K BC worried me as well. Regen map is a good thing, but you play 10 turns realise the starting position isnt that good... and up until this stage I have been going through the motions of exit to menu, setting up the game again, starting again looking for the next map.

Problem is there is no "Quick Start" option in Civ4 like there was in Civ3. So very handy to load another random map with same settings as last time. Sure its only a few minutes... but annoying.

Two things I hope they bring in next Fairfax patch...

1. Quick start (start with same settings - random map)
2. Save a 4K BC autosave with each "regenerate map" (been bitten by this one a few times already *sigh*

One thing you could do is using regen, save starts that look promising. After saving a handful of maps, go back and load the first one. If it doesn't pan out, go load the next start and so on.

Am I missing something, but is it all that hard to just go back to the Main Menu and restart after a wider start turns out sour and the regeneration option is no longer available?

Its what I do, anyway. Its not that onerous.

- Bill

The annoying part with Main Menu is you must re-enter half your custom settings. Hopefully this will be fixed in a patch.

@WastinTime: We are aware of the effects caused by using the Regenerate Map option. We are taking it into consideration during the Beta. The extra 4000BC sessions are less of a concern, IMHO, at this point than the lack of a 4000BC file after regen. It makes it very easy to submit the wrong starting file. Hopefully, as you say, Firaxis will address all these issues.

Pardon my confusion, but am I supposed to save a 4000BC version of a "regen" map if I play from there? Or do I submit the 4000BC auto-save that looks nothing like the map actually played?

Pardon my confusion, but am I supposed to save a 4000BC version of a "regen" map if I play from there? Or do I submit the 4000BC auto-save that looks nothing like the map actually played?
You definately want to save and submit the 4000BC file that matches the game you actually played. With regen map, that means you have to remember to do the save yourself as the game does not overwrite the "AutoSave_Initial_BC-4000.Civ4SavedGame" file when you regenerate. Something for the next patch, hopefully.

You definately want to save and submit the 4000BC file that matches the game you actually played.

Excellent. I just wanted to make sure this was within the ruleset.

BTW, is it OK if I submit the initial save with warrior and/or settler moved? Because usually only after moving them I see whether the start is any good or not.

Also, I've just reloaded the initial autosave and went through the regeneration torture once again. I was worried that I would not get the same start again because I'm popping huts in 4000 BC and this could affect the random generator. But it does not.

Also, on Tiny Great Plains with 11 AI it is possible to contact AI on the first turn. These contacts remain even after regen... There's not much I can do about that... Is this a problem?

BTW, is it OK if I submit the initial save with warrior and/or settler moved? Because usually only after moving them I see whether the start is any good or not.
Not a problem, as long as it's still 4000bc.

Also, on Tiny Great Plains with 11 AI it is possible to contact AI on the first turn. These contacts remain even after regen... There's not much I can do about that... Is this a problem?
It's not a problem for the Beta HOF. Not sure about the permanent one just yet.

The case by case situations of reload-problem submissions has been on the rise lately, so I thought this might be worth a thread specific reminder to everyone.

We know not all players have the time (or sometimes desire) to play a full hour every time you play, but be advised that anything less a half an hour session may not meet Hall of Fame standards.

Hm, did I misunderstand? You're allowed to reload if you do it once and play for more than half hour before saving. Then you can quit and continue playing another day when you feel for just if you play more than half hour, correct?

Hm, did I misunderstand? You're allowed to reload if you do it once and play for more than half hour before saving. Then you can quit and continue playing another day when you feel for just if you play more than half hour, correct?
Your play sessions need to be at least half an hour (although it's likely we'll require a full hour later on). At the end of your session, you must save the game. When you start a new session, you must start with your most recent save. You're not allowed to "go back in time" to an earlier save.

Does this help?

At the end of your session, you must save the game

Thanks, now I got it. Another question btw, is that reloaded save file a must have for you to accept the game?

Thanks, now I got it. Another question btw, is that reloaded save file a must have for you to accept the game?
We need a save file from the 4000bc turn, and the final save from the turn after you win. 1000bc, 10ad and 1000ad are recommended but optional.

last night i made a mistake.i loaded the last (not a previous save) save and quit.i do nothing.changed nothing.just checked for worker number, score ,population and land area to compare with another game.and game is good and continue the game.is it a problem for HoF rules?.(game is too good and i really want to continue the game).

i do nothing.changed nothing.
Since you didn't play at all, you're okay. :)

I think we need to open this discussion again. We went through a long, long beta, but only now are we discovering the flaws in the system. I guess that's because the system was not in place until version 1.61.003. With the (admittedly minor) instability of Civ IV--and Windows in general, along with power hits, etc. too many honest games are being excluded. I can't even think of attempting the Major Gauntlet. I'll be shocked if you get one valid submission. I wasn't even able to get a clean run out of the minor Gauntlets. G-minor 2 is actually a long game. I'd say 10+ hours. I believe the hall of fame will die a slow death if too many people get annoyed by this.

"It's better to let 10 guilty men go free than one innocent be punished."

Instead of exluding all the honest games we spend hours and hours on. Let a reload sneak in as long as it's not abusive. If someone reloads one time in a 40 hour game, let it go! Whether it was an honest crash or not. If they've submitted it, they're claiming it was an honest mistake. Even if, for example, they hit the domination limit accidentally and want to go back one turn. Who cares! I don't. One could even argue that the game shouldn't even trigger a domination win until you END a turn with the proper %...but I digress.

Take Netflix for example -- online DVD rental. If I lose a disc in the mail. I tell them so, and they don't charge me. I could have lied and just kept the disc. If I abuse this system and claim too many lost discs, I will be punished then, not before.

We know there's hesistation about the G-Major, but this is the first we've heard of general fear to play. Anyone else feel this way?

We know there's hesistation about the G-Major, but this is the first we've heard of general fear to play. Anyone else feel this way?

I am not afraid of attempting the Gauntlet Major I at all. I have played CIV IV for several hours each week since last November. So far, I haven't had one single crash. Some of the games have been quick conquest games of less than 15 min. But I have also played at least 20 games that lasted more than 10 hours each.

Having said that, I must admit I have not tried the most demanding games like Huge domination on higher difficulty levels. I believe the most demanding game with respect to PC resources was a Huge Settler game with about 50 cities.

I have been playing on two different computers, one laptop and one desktop, both fairly state-of-the-art.

It seems like I'm blessed with a pretty stable system (laptop about 1 year old), OS and game; IIRC it didn't crash on me a single time. So for me, the current reloading policy is absolutely fine.
If it turns out that there are many people to whom crashes are to be expected in long games, I can understand that it might not work well this way generally, though. I have attempted the Major-1 gauntlet, but in the two attempts that were promising (each well over 10 hours already), I stopped because it wasn't much fun any more, too much boring maintenance work.

If you make it a rule to accept reloads under a certain threshold, to say "X crashes per game can happen", that's just an invitation to reload X times. If for a really long and probably crash-sensitive game like the major-1 someone has a reload or two, saying those were due to crashes, I think you could decide those on a case-by-case basis. A general rule permits too much abuse.

Is it possible to configure the game to make an autosave every turn? If that is possible, one could allow reloads only from the most recent autosave, which will limit the potential abuse.

Is it possible to configure the game to make an autosave every turn?
Yes, it is.

If that is possible, one could allow reloads only from the most recent autosave, which will limit the potential abuse.
If we loosen the policy, it would probably be something along those lines.

Abuse is even possible with save random seed.
Save...
Attack with highly promoted, important unit
Lose..
Reload
Attack with a useless unit that gets killed
Save...
Try again.

This will prevent your most important units getting killed.

Abuse is even possible with save random seed.
Save...
Attack with highly promoted, important unit
Lose..
Reload
Attack with a useless unit that gets killed
Save...
Try again.

This will prevent your most important units getting killed.
That sort of abuse is certainly possible in Civ games. It'll reduce that game's chance of being published in the Hall of Fame to damn near zero, but the abuse is technically possible. ;)

Is it possible to configure the game to make an autosave every turn? If that is possible, one could allow reloads only from the most recent autosave, which will limit the potential abuse.
There's a staff consensus now that this is the way to proceed. So, the good news is that we will have an exception in the rules for crash related reloads. The bad news is that I haven't had time to figure out all the technical details, so we don't have it yet.

On the other hand, if anyone was shying away from G Major 1 due to the Huge map implications, G Major 2 has been released a month ahead of schedule. It's Deity, but it's also Standard. Hopefully that'll be less of a technical burden...

Is it considered reloading if instead of loading up a manual save you load up the auto saved?

Is it considered reloading if instead of loading up a manual save you load up the auto saved?
If you've done any playing since the autosave, then yes. The "crime" isn't reloading per se, but replaying.

While having autosaves set to every turn is highly recommended, you should end each session with a manual save and reload that one.

Setting autosave for every turn can be problematic though, especially for those who might crash sometimes. For example, my memory is low and saving takes almost a minute... now that for every turn would be a pain :)

btw I don'T understand all this hassle about reloading:

1) If someone wants to reload/replay/see ahead into the future just to have a better game, there is no way you can stop him from doing that

2) In what way is it any bigger cheating than regenerating the map until you get a nice one?

Setting autosave for every turn can be problematic though, especially for those who might crash sometimes. For example, my memory is low and saving takes almost a minute... now that for every turn would be a pain :)
How much memory do you have? :confused: I've never heard of autosaving taking that long. I assume you let it do it's thing at the beginning of each turn, waiting before you make any moves, etc.

1) If someone wants to reload/replay/see ahead into the future just to have a better game, there is no way you can stop him from doing that
You know what? You're right. I can't stop people from replaying turns against the rules...

...but what I can do is stop those games from getting on the HOF tables.

2) In what way is it any bigger cheating than regenerating the map until you get a nice one?
Map regenerating isn't cheating, it's clearly within the HOF rules.

256m memory...