View Full Version : The games from Koei and real life history


damunzy
Feb 01, 2002, 12:12 AM
This thread is mostly about the games Romance of the Three Kingdoms (ROTK) (all versions) and Nobunaga's Ambition (all versions). I have played these games and they got me interested in the culture and history of these far away lands (for me that is). I was just wondering how factual the information that was provided in these games is. I have done some seperate reading, which has supported a lot of what I read in the instruction book for ROTK (The instruction manual for ROTK had a lot of Chinese history, for that period, for a game manual).
So basically my question is do you feel these games did a good job of explaining what happened in these countries during these periods?
ROTK is about China and Nobunaga's Ambition is about Japan for those of you that have never heard or played them.

Knight-Dragon
Feb 01, 2002, 12:37 AM
I love the RTK series. Had played 3 and 4. :D Still playing 4 every now and then.

You know; Koei had actually released RTK till 7 or 8 in Chinese format. Unfortunately I can't play cos I can't really read Chinese. :o

I don't think games can ever explain 'real' history to the full. But roughly, they are doing an OK job of it. At least on the point of introducing the main characters in the Three Kingdoms story.

Never played Nobunaga, so no real idea. I only got my first computer around the time of RTK 3. ;)

damunzy
Feb 01, 2002, 01:34 AM
Ah, all the ROTK and Nobunaga's Ambition games I got where for Nintendo or SNES. I played ROTK 1 and 2 alot. I also played 3 a bit. I didn't like it as much as it went from Providence conquest to city conquest (it maybe be more realistic, but I was so use to the old way). I never got to play 4 much because only came out on the Play Station as far as I know in the States.

I hear they have a network multi-player ROTK (I can't remember what the name of it is in Chinese). I have a friend in Korea that has seen it or jsut heard about it. This is the most recent release that I have heard of, and it will probably never reach my shores. :(

Knight-Dragon
Feb 01, 2002, 01:41 AM
And on the PS2, you have Kessen (on Japan) and Kessen 2 (on China, RTK) fr Koei too. :D

But I don't have them or the PS2. Yet.

damunzy
Feb 01, 2002, 02:13 AM
I have played Kessen on the PS2. Yes there are of the RTOK period (and yes Lu Bu is a almost undefeatable ass!) but they are not the type of strategy game I want. They are Fighting games with some strategy thrown in.

Alcibiaties of Athenae
Feb 01, 2002, 08:49 PM
Well, Romance four was also for SNES, I know, because I have it.

The documentation is decent in the games, but the timeline isn't clear, nor is the fate of some of the major characters.

As for Nobunaga, it does portray the warring states period rather well in some areas, but dosen't really show how effective firearms were (the clan descriptions were quite good, as I recall).

If you like this era, and you can find it, there was an NES game that was better, called "Shingen the ruler", it portrayed 16th century Japanese warfare much better, with animated musket and archers, lancers, horsemen and infantry.

damunzy
Feb 03, 2002, 01:31 AM
As I said in a different thread, " I am a Shingen Takeda man" from playign the game Shingen the Ruler and I think it was made by HotOne. Great fun, wasted many hours playing that game. I still fire up Romance of the Three Kingdoms II every once in awhile (I still have my SNES and game!) and proceed to kick ass on level 1 (3 is the hardest, but not really all that hard). My friends and I use to play that game so much that we knew where every good general was located and what year they appeared. We also knew the secret of getting good magical items and took advantage of that providence. I once got a special horse that gave my guy the Retreat ability plus a bonus to WAR (we never did figure out how I did that and of course I was the only one to see it as I was playing at 2am in the morning and everyone else feel asleep!). The horse was weird, the name was in Japanese (a guess) and the graphics were really weird looking. It might have been a flaw in the game, or maybe the SNES was over heated! ;)

goododa
Feb 13, 2002, 09:58 PM
I had played Sangokushi(ROTK) 1, 3 - 8, Nobunaga no Yabou Zenkokuban, Haouden, Tenshouki, Shouseiroku, Reppuuden, and
Ranseiki. They're all in Japanese except for a Nobunaga game I played on SNES.

ROTK 7 and 8 are virtually copying the idea from Taikorisshiden (a special role-playing game by Koei about the rise of Toyotomi Hideyoshi) so I don't recommend those.

And for the Nobunaga series, I would say Tenshouki, Shouseiroku and Reppuuden are the best ones.

milty
Feb 25, 2002, 10:22 PM
Koei games are generally good to great in terms of historical accuracy. Even non three kingdoms or japanese warring states games. The Napoleon game is pretty good, Gheghis Khan 2 is one of my favorites, Liberty or Death (American Revolution) is ok. Mind you these games are pretty dated. Another good one was the Water Margin, about Chinese rebels in the Sung dynasty.

RTK series are good with introducing the characters, having a little blurb on each character. Having read the real Romance of the Three Kingdoms in its actual form (medieval Chinese), the book is definately much much better, greatest book ever for war/history/strategy/politics buffs. Reinforces many Chinese ideas about loyalty, filial piety, friendship, etc. I know most of you won't be able to find an English translation, but the translations, or the plain language Chinese ones, don't convey the full brilliance of the book. I have played RTK up to 8 now, but I'd have to say, after RTK 3, things get to be about the same...

I love the Japanese warring states period also from playing the Nobunaga series. I'm currently playing the 5th installment I believe, in chinese. Playing most of these games in chinese, I'm not too familiar with the English names, but Uesugi Kenshin is my favorite. 2nd is Oda Nobunaga. 3rd would have to be either the Mori Motonari, or Takeda Shingen. That period of history is so exciting when told by Koei, with their weird customs and stuff.

Dynasty Warriors 2 and 3 on PS2 is good, I have both, and it lets you live the life of the RTK generals for a little while. Great games. Kessen is based on Sekigahara, the battle between Hideyoshi remnents and Tokugawa. Kessen 2 seems like it's based on RTK, probably about the battle of Chi Bi, since that was the most important battle of the Three Kingdoms.

goododa
Feb 25, 2002, 11:42 PM
Originally posted by milty
Koei games are generally good to great in terms of historical accuracy. Even non three kingdoms or japanese warring states games. The Napoleon game is pretty good, Gheghis Khan 2 is one of my favorites, Liberty or Death (American Revolution) is ok. Mind you these games are pretty dated. Another good one was the Water Margin, about Chinese rebels in the Sung dynasty.

Pretty much of the Water Margin is untrue though.

And you can read the English translation of the Romance of the Three Kingdoms here (http://www.threekingdoms.com).

milty
Feb 25, 2002, 11:53 PM
Well the Water Margin is a novel, so the novel is romanticized definately, but the themes of loyalty and brotherhood is there. Much like a Robin hood story on a grand scale.

The Koei game is pretty close, atleast in terms of character attributes.

Moff Jerjerrod
Mar 06, 2002, 01:42 PM
Water Margin? Is that "Bandit Kings of Ancient China" for NES?

omichyron
Mar 06, 2002, 03:04 PM
If you like this era, and you can find it, there was an NES game that was better, called "Shingen the ruler", it portrayed 16th century Japanese warfare much better, with animated musket and archers, lancers, horsemen and infantry.

I love that game (Yes I still have an original NES). I am not too good at Shingen the Ruler (being more the Mario and Crystalis expert), but it is great fun. Just about all I can find for later gaming systems are stupid fighting games. I have a SNES, but just use it to play Killer Instinct and similar titles. I would never even consider the purchase of anything more advanced. Computers just do that so much better.

It is true that I have gained a lot of historical knowledge because a computer game first interrested me in an era or region, but for those unwilling to do research, computer games tend to contain plenty of false information.

donsig
Mar 06, 2002, 11:59 PM
My wife just bought an old Nintendo last week and found our ROTK II cartridge. We've played a couple times but our 8 year old discovered the nintendo and plays it alot, cutting into our time.:(

It kills me, too, because the boy has a Nintendo 64 AND a Playstation 2.

I had thought about getting ROTK IV for playstation but didn't because I figured I'd never get to use the machine. (We have an 18 year old who lives on that machine.)

Knight-Dragon
Mar 07, 2002, 02:10 AM
Originally posted by donsig
I had thought about getting ROTK IV for playstation but didn't because I figured I'd never get to use the machine. (We have an 18 year old who lives on that machine.) Wow! You have an 18 yr old kid! :eek: Gosh.

On-topic, I saw RoTK VIII for the PS1 on sale before. I have Genghis Khan 2 on my hardisk at home. :D My housemate got RoTK 1 and 2 (maybe 3) too on disk. Aslo got RoTK 4 (for the PC) on CD.

donsig
Mar 07, 2002, 04:15 PM
Wow! You have an 18 yr old kid! Gosh.

First two grandchildren are on the way (May and October). These are my step-children having babies but it still counts.;)

Are you saying that Romance of the Three Kingdoms can be played on the same computer I play Civ III on? I haven't seen that. I tried ebay and only found nes/snes/sega/playstation games. Is this something that is only in Asia or are they selling 'em over here, too?

I sent you a PM about this, enjoy. ;)

AoA

Knight-Dragon
Mar 07, 2002, 08:06 PM
Congratulations! :D

No idea but these are VERY old games. And yes, on the PC. :) In fact, I downloaded these fr somewhere on the net (for free); they're called abandonware or something like that. Many other old games there as well.

MajorGeneral2
Mar 09, 2002, 01:13 PM
Nobunaga's Ambition is a favorite of mine. Actually, I bought it only a month or so ago. There's a game store near my home that sells old games (my friends thought me crazy when I bought an NES not long ago, when I had a N64, GBC, and other systems). Anyway, anyone here know where I can learn more about feudal Japan and China? I'd appreciate it.

Pellaken
Mar 14, 2002, 05:51 PM
OMG!!:eek: :eek: I amsouletley LOVE all KOEI games... well the older ones, the new company's a little... nyea...

I own RTK3 {not ROTK} and have played like all KOEI games atleast once. from what I can tell, the history is pretty accurate.

you can find alot of games at Pel, we can't link to those sites by law which is a cool site.
Pellaken Action: why not! what a rip! well, on a totaly unrealated topic, my e-mail address is pellaken_kee@hotmail.com

I like RTK3 better then 4, but I never really played 4 as much as 3 to begin with, after I found Civ 2 all my time went into that... then I just stopped playing games altogethor.

anyways...

damunzy
Mar 14, 2002, 10:29 PM
Remember gentlemen, abadonware, roms, warez, and the like are not allowed to be linked to in the forums, per Thunderfall's decree. Talk about them is ok as long as we don't get to deep into it. This is not the place to discuss this though. :) If you really need to find more information about any of those then PM the person that brings them up and I am sure they can descreetly show you were to go, and remember to buy the game in question if you find it enjoyable and you continue to play it, m'kay?

I'd have to say that Hojo is one of my favs also, not sure which Hojo, just the family in general. When I played Nobunaga's Ambition 1 for NES I didn't care about the leader as much as I cared about the position of the country I ruled and the age of the leader. I always liked to pick the leader in province 1, the farthest right and up, since he only had one way of attacking or being attacked, even though he started out with a weak country. I am not very good at handling provinces surrounded by other countries.

Alcibiaties of Athenae
Mar 15, 2002, 10:32 AM
PH, being surounded is a great advantage!

You need to raise taxes and buy an army quickly, the AI won't attack large forces, it doesn't take into account the quality of your force, so you will have time to train them. ;)

damunzy
Mar 17, 2002, 10:48 PM
But when I go to attack a country either my home base or the newly conquered state will be weaker than the surrounding....I guess it all comes down to strategy, only attack when those around you are weak.

Alcibiaties of Athenae
Mar 18, 2002, 09:58 AM
A good way is to asassinate a weak ruler with Ninja, then bid on his provinces.

The AI tends to spend heavy early, but you get their army with the province.

Daaraa
Mar 19, 2002, 06:08 PM
I just noticed this thread.

I loved Koei games!

It too got me interested in the ROTK period and Shingen got me interested in feudal japan.

I think Koei has led me to spend hundreds of dollars on the gaming industry since the early 90s. It even led to Civilization. :)

My problem is that everything I do now is all PC based and so I cannot partake of the new Koei products. :(
I finally found PTO 2 for PC about a year ago.
Does anyone know where you can get a copy of ROTK 4 or higher for the PC?

Pellaken
Mar 19, 2002, 08:29 PM
I know where you can get some... but due to nazi abandonware laws, I'm not allowed to say it..

on a totally unrelated topic, look at the PM Pellaken button... hummmm

SuperR
Mar 19, 2002, 08:38 PM
Koei's Uncharted Waters:New Horizons was really helpful in terms of historic geography. Old Colonies's presence such as Goa, Macao, Bathurst whose names are now obsolete really made the game feel realistic, as most Koei games are, despite the lack of graphic quality.

damunzy
Mar 20, 2002, 02:20 AM
Originally posted by Pellaken
I know where you can get some... but due to nazi abandonware laws, I'm not allowed to say it..

on a totally unrelated topic, look at the PM Pellaken button... hummmm Good way to put it Pellaken, I might be PMing you too, for, uh, no reason at all. ;)

damunzy
Mar 20, 2002, 02:30 AM
Koei has RTK VIII out now....but it is only in Traditional Chinese or Korena. :(