On the front page as usual.

# 8.7
# Added 3 great lakes options (few, normal, many). This will generate a map with a number
# of large lakes (large enough to typically have ocean tiles).
# Edge sea and corner sea were reversed in what they generated, fixed.
# Corrected the usage of cardinal directions, thanks to Sto for noticing. This turned out to
# be harmless, but would show up in the xml error log.
# Fixed bug with generating inland sea maps, thanks DG for noticing.
# Corrected minor math error in hill placement that was generating more hills than specified.
# Corrected disagreement between ocean percentage and size of central sea in such maps.
# Fixed problem with counting number of available sea resource spots that would place too
# many sea resources on certain styles of maps.
# Removed all used of CyPlot.isCoastalLand() because this method doesn't do what you'd expect.
# Forced central sea maps to keep the central sea away from the poles to prevent splitting
# the map in two.
# Speed up altitude calculation by simplifying the search for nearby ocean.
# Speed up wetness calculation by skipping water tiles.
# Speed up hash lookups by increasing step size.
# These speed improvements should knock about 10-20% off the total generation time.

Thank you for the speed improvements surt :D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v186/Ahzi_Dahaka/Other/Excellent.jpg
It just keeps getting better and better... Soon enough, the very idea of playing Civ IV without SmartMap will be downright inconceivable.

Surt,

Great work!

I was playing on 80% sea, with the random land formation.
Had 15 civilizations, in teams of 3 each. I got a couple time where two civs would be on op of one another or 3 civs would be very close, and some other areas wide open.

I used the Smart placement. Not sure if this is a bug or just some randomness generating this. I was using 8.6

Surt,

Great work!

I was playing on 80% sea, with the random land formation.
Had 15 civilizations, in teams of 3 each. I got a couple time where two civs would be on op of one another or 3 civs would be very close, and some other areas wide open.

I used the Smart placement. Not sure if this is a bug or just some randomness generating this. I was using 8.6

I'll have a look ... I don't usually use so many civs, nor do I use teams at all, so there may be some sort of bug involving teams.

It just keeps getting better and better... Soon enough, the very idea of playing Civ IV without SmartMap will be downright inconceivable.Isn't it already? ;) :goodjob:

Isn't it already? ;) :goodjob:

It is for me :)

surt,

What are the percentages for normal, few and many hills? I as just curious because I like many hills the most.

It is for me :)

surt,

What are the percentages for normal, few and many hills? I as just curious because I like many hills the most.

if percentHills == -1:
percentHills = 10 + dice.get(8, "Python: SmartMap: Dice: few Random Hills %")
if percentHills == -2:
percentHills = 18 + dice.get(20, "Python: SmartMap: Dice: many Random Hills %")
if percentHills == -3:
percentHills = 14 + dice.get(14, "Python: SmartMap: Dice: normal Random Hills %")

So ... few = 10 + 0-7 (random) % = average 13%
normal = 14 + 0-13 (random) % = average 20%
many = 18 + 0-19 (random) % = average 27%

So if you want yet more hills but not too much more you might try 30 or 35 % fixed.

I just wanted to say...

Thank you!!!

This script has saved the game for me. The maps are so much more interesting than before. I first was discussed with the amount of forests, until I realized that the wilderness feeling it gave was amazing. I have found a configuration that spaces continents exactly like I like them, so that boats are important but not tedious. Resource placement is excellent. I love this script!

Hi! Thanks for the fun set of maps. I enjoy OCC games, and this script has made many good maps.

I have occasionally enountered a problem where the regeneration of a SmartMap map does not honor my settings if Civ has been quit since the map was first created. This comes up when I have been crushed mid-game and want to have another go at the opponents but with a different starting position.

I am using SmartMap 8.7 and no other mods.

I can reproduce the problem with the following steps:
1. Start Civ and launch a Custom Game using the default SmartMap settings. ( The map will have mountains and ocean and other interesting features. )
2. Quit Civ.
3. Launch Civ by clicking on the AutoSave_Initial_BC-4000.Civ4SavedGame file
4. Regenerate Map.

The resultant map will have no hills or peaks, no oceans or lakes, and no x or y wrap. It will have a few forests and jungles, and some rivers that tend to travel directly north-south. I think these features are the result of SmartMap relying on default map choices that never get initialized due to the different way the Civ engine handles the Renegerate Map action.

I am not sure how this should work. Even if the script did read the smartmap84.cfg file to get the user settings, those would be the setting of the last map created, not necessarily the map of the save game that was loaded. Is it possible to annotate the map portion of the save game with the parameters of the map script? Does a saved game know which map script created it, or does Civ rely on the settings in CivilizationIV.ini?

Thanks again for the great script.

Hi! Thanks for the fun set of maps. I enjoy OCC games, and this script has made many good maps.

I have occasionally enountered a problem where the regeneration of a SmartMap map does not honor my settings if Civ has been quit since the map was first created. This comes up when I have been crushed mid-game and want to have another go at the opponents but with a different starting position.

I am using SmartMap 8.7 and no other mods.

I can reproduce the problem with the following steps:
1. Start Civ and launch a Custom Game using the default SmartMap settings. ( The map will have mountains and ocean and other interesting features. )
2. Quit Civ.
3. Launch Civ by clicking on the AutoSave_Initial_BC-4000.Civ4SavedGame file
4. Regenerate Map.

The resultant map will have no hills or peaks, no oceans or lakes, and no x or y wrap. It will have a few forests and jungles, and some rivers that tend to travel directly north-south. I think these features are the result of SmartMap relying on default map choices that never get initialized due to the different way the Civ engine handles the Renegerate Map action.

I am not sure how this should work. Even if the script did read the smartmap84.cfg file to get the user settings, those would be the setting of the last map created, not necessarily the map of the save game that was loaded. Is it possible to annotate the map portion of the save game with the parameters of the map script? Does a saved game know which map script created it, or does Civ rely on the settings in CivilizationIV.ini?

Thanks again for the great script.

Thanks for reporting this. The cause is actually a script error that occurs during map regen when init has never been done at all. The underlying problem is a long standing problem with map regen (a civIV bug / flawed design): it really ought to re-init during map regen, the CvMapScriptInterface suggests that it should.

In any case, I have a work around that fixes this so it will work like you'd expect, so this will be fixed in the next version. In the meantime .... don't do this. :-)

Follow up: and luckily enough it works like you would hope: a 3 continent save game regenerates a 3 continent game, even if your last map gen was a 6 continent game.

Thank you, I love this map generator!

In response to Keldath, I play multiplayer almost exclusively, and use smartmap now almost exclusively. I *think* only the host needs smartmap, but I'm not certain. I could see problems in the staging area in lan/internet multiplayer if the others didn't. It's a fairly small file, though, easy to email.

Only the host needs it. The host generates the map using the script and then sends it to all connected users.

First of all, thanks for the map generator! I tried it out a few times and I am getting a few bad memory placement errors that crashes the game. Also, I got a negative map coloring when I switched to the map editor and back again. Other than that it seems to work great! I do have a couple of suggestions right off the bat. I don't know if they have been mentioned already though.

My first suggestion is to add a size geration choice that also controls the shape of the map to make it so you don't get the skinny maps either hightwise or widthwise.

Secondly, I would suggest adding a seperation choice that works for civilization placement on all land maps, or even just in general. I don't mean continental seperation, I am suggestion that it makes sure your civilization is placed so that it will be guaranteed to be at least a certain distance from the nearest rival civilization's placement. This could be controled by the player in a way similar to the continental seperation or by simply saying it will be "X" ammount of tiles away.

My third suggestion is to add Gigantic to the size choices in addition to the normal ones. This is so players can choose that for playing with 18 or more civilizations.

I apoligize if these suggestions have already been addressed. Thanks again for the map generator, it is awesome!

First of all, thanks for the map generator! I tried it out a few times and I am getting a few bad memory placement errors that crashes the game. Also, I got a negative map coloring when I switched to the map editor and back again. Other than that it seems to work great! I do have a couple of suggestions right off the bat. I don't know if they have been mentioned already though.

Memory errors are probably due to your computer not having enough memory for a larger map. SmartMap maps are slightly larger by default, if you don't use enough ocean you'll run into trouble. Try generating slightly smaller maps.

My first suggestion is to add a size geration choice that also controls the shape of the map to make it so you don't get the skinny maps either hightwise or widthwise.

That's exactly what the override width and height controls are for. Pick the exact size of map you want using those. They have convenient indicators for the usual map sizes to help you gauge the exact size you want.

Secondly, I would suggest adding a seperation choice that works for civilization placement on all land maps, or even just in general. I don't mean continental seperation, I am suggestion that it makes sure your civilization is placed so that it will be guaranteed to be at least a certain distance from the nearest rival civilization's placement. This could be controled by the player in a way similar to the continental seperation or by simply saying it will be "X" ammount of tiles away.

The main problem here is that it is not always possible to place all players X apart from each other, depending on the shape of the map. The current algorithm also does favor fairness in resources over distance, however, so i'll think about adding an option that will always favor distance. Also, a note: all land maps use the most memory, so if you are generating big, all land maps, that's probably the cause of your memory problems.

My third suggestion is to add Gigantic to the size choices in addition to the normal ones. This is so players can choose that for playing with 18 or more civilizations.

Unfortunately, that isn't possible, the size set is coded in a way that would make adding another size very difficult (note, since I see you're using the six sizes mod, the reason this is a problem is that both the mod, and the map script have to be in agreement about the number of map sizes, and since smartmap is designed to be compatible with standard mods, I have to assume that there are therefore just the usual 5 sizes, otherwise smartmap would be incompatible with any 5 size mod). However, you do have access to the override width and height controls, so you can generate any map size you'd like, including sizes that would take a computer with hundreds of gigabytes of memory (currently ... i put them in hoping firaxis would improve the per tile memory usage at some point). The only downside to using enormous maps is that the game pace is not adjusted beyond huge, so research rate will always be limited to the huge rate. As an additional note, since it sounds like you prefer large maps, I have to point out that this is probably the cause of your memory problems. If you are trying to generate a huge map with smartmap, that size is somewhat larger in smartmap than in standard, and this is probably why you are running out of memory.

I apoligize if these suggestions have already been addressed. Thanks again for the map generator, it is awesome!

No problem, try out the override width/height controls, I think that will solve most of your issues. Adding a player placement option that prefers to maximize distance between players is a good and easy to make idea, so i'll put that in the next version.

Try generating a few smaller maps, and see if your memory problems go away. If they do, then unfortunately that leaves nothing I can do ... big maps just use a lot of memory.

thanks for the feedback surt! I figured that the larger maps could be the problem with the memory errors. I will try just using SmartMap with smaler maps, although I do prefer the larger ones, but I guess even though I currently have 1.5 gigs ram it still has it's limitations.

only comment i have is that I posted this before I found the six sizes mod and the six sizes mod has six additional sizes all bigger than the standard five, this is exactly what i was talking about in my suggestion. Of course, that is done using a mod, whereas this is a map script which is different so i will just run them at the same time and should be ok. Now, I just gotta get that mod to run together with other mods by somehow combining them. Whew! I wish there was a tool that combined mods for you. Maybe I will suggest that. Anyway, I am rambling now! Thanks for the map script i am sure I will enjoy using it for my regular size maps.

That's exactly what the override width and height controls are for. Pick the exact size of map you want using those. They have convenient indicators for the usual map sizes to help you gauge the exact size you want.

If you are trying to generate a huge map with smartmap, that size is somewhat larger in smartmap than in standard, and this is probably why you are running out of memory.

No problem, try out the override width/height controls, I think that will solve most of your issues.
I too really appreciate this mapscript - it creates beautifully interesting maps.

And I like to play on huge maps, but I too get seemingly memory related crashes. I'd like to use the overrides, but it is not clear to me which override for width and height I should use to limit the size of the SmartMap to be only as big as a vanilla huge map.

I noticed the settings in the applicable vanilla XML file for Huge maps was width of 32 and height of 20. How do these figures map to the override dropdown options? I tried 3200x2000, but that caused the game to grind to a halt just during the initial map setup phase :lol: I also noticed that the bottomost override options are something like "random 16-34" or something like that... which does not let me specify 32 or 20 (which I suspect would be too small anyway...).

Could I tweak something in the Python itself to make the SMartMap Huge the same as the vanilla huge?

THanks!!
Spocko

I too really appreciate this mapscript - it creates beautifully interesting maps.

And I like to play on huge maps, but I too get seemingly memory related crashes. I'd like to use the overrides, but it is not clear to me which override for width and height I should use to limit the size of the SmartMap to be only as big as a vanilla huge map.

I noticed the settings in the applicable vanilla XML file for Huge maps was width of 32 and height of 20. How do these figures map to the override dropdown options? I tried 3200x2000, but that caused the game to grind to a halt just during the initial map setup phase :lol: I also noticed that the bottomost override options are something like "random 16-34" or something like that... which does not let me specify 32 or 20 (which I suspect would be too small anyway...).

Could I tweak something in the Python itself to make the SMartMap Huge the same as the vanilla huge?

THanks!!
Spocko

The override entries are marked with the corresponding sized map entry.
in override width dropdown, look for:
128 (huge)
in override height:
80 (huge)

If you select both of these numbers, you will have an exactly vanilla civIV huge sized map.

The numbers specified in XML are divide by 4, for whatever internal civIV reason (128 / 4 = 32 and 80 /4 = 20). All maps are required to be a multiple of 4 tiles in size in both directions.

A 3200 x 2000 map would require somewhat more than 50 gigabytes of memory right now, I included those larger options in the hope of encouraging firaxis to make them possible by improving the memory usage (there's no good reason such a large map shouldn't be possible with careful memory use).

Oh - Yep, I see now. I didn't see that I could scroll up on the override dropdowns - and there it is, 128 (huge) and 80 (huge).

This is great!

Thanks!

Surt

Would you be willing to let me put this in the C4:AC MOD and would you let me edit the choices in the menu so it better fits the MOD.

Surt

Would you be willing to let me put this in the C4:AC MOD and would you let me edit the choices in the menu so it better fits the MOD.

Answered by email.

I am not having any memory problems with regulare huge maps anymore, not sure why though, only thing I am doing different is running Smart map random for a number of things that I was choosing and option on. I am using this with 18 civs and it makes the maps planty big enough for them. You make me so happy! :)

I am not having any memory problems with regulare huge maps anymore, not sure why though, only thing I am doing different is running Smart map random for a number of things that I was choosing and option on. I am using this with 18 civs and it makes the maps planty big enough for them. You make me so happy! :)

The most likely difference is that whatever you are choosing is giving you more ocean now than you got before. CivIV uses something like 12-16K of memory extra for every land tile, so even a small difference in the number of land tiles adds up really fast.

In the next version I'm making sure that I release all the python memory I use, and calling the python memory collector, so hopefully this will improve everyone's ability to use even larger maps.

I'm trying to add the SmartMap to a mod that I am working on (CivMore). I place the script in the PublicMaps folder within my mod folder. When I select a custom game, SmartMap appears as an option, but I do not get all of the extra values that are supposed to come up; I only get the standard 5. Is there something that I am missing? Is this map script not useable with a mod?

I'm trying to add the SmartMap to a mod that I am working on (CivMore). I place the script in the PublicMaps folder within my mod folder. When I select a custom game, SmartMap appears as an option, but I do not get all of the extra values that are supposed to come up; I only get the standard 5. Is there something that I am missing? Is this map script not useable with a mod?

I use it with your mod all the time. It isn't like a Mod where you have to load it everytime you play. I just select SmartMap as the type of map I want to play. (What I was refering to as far as adding to CivMore is the SDKSixMapSizes Mod which also works with SmartMap)
Here is the forum:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=144777

This is the Mod:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/sdksixmapsizes.zip

I'm trying to add the SmartMap to a mod that I am working on (CivMore). I place the script in the PublicMaps folder within my mod folder. When I select a custom game, SmartMap appears as an option, but I do not get all of the extra values that are supposed to come up; I only get the standard 5. Is there something that I am missing? Is this map script not useable with a mod?

It should work fine ... having smartmap show up but not show the additional options is quite wierd. I would try clearing your caches. I'll try out your mod when I get a chance and see if it works for me.

I'm trying to add the SmartMap to a mod that I am working on (CivMore). I place the script in the PublicMaps folder within my mod folder. When I select a custom game, SmartMap appears as an option, but I do not get all of the extra values that are supposed to come up; I only get the standard 5. Is there something that I am missing? Is this map script not useable with a mod?

I had this problem when I had a python conflict in a mod I was playing with. Also, check to see if you have the Play Now! button greyed out in the main single player menu at start-up.(that was another symptom I had)
I never was able to pinpoint where I dropped the ball on that script.. so... I guess the answer, based on my experiences, it may very well be a corruption in your mod.

Cheers!

For some reason whenever i use smart map and under the terrain option choose "smartmap" i dont get any flood plains at all.

It says it makes flood plains more realistic in the read me for smart map with that option. But i looked on world builder and i didnt see ANY flood plains with that option.

I think this is a bug or something or maybe its negated by another option?

Even none of the deserts next to rivers are flood plains. Something is wrong with that option...

BlazeRedSXT I want your system. :)

Can someone please help me with my problem?

Can someone please help me with my problem?

Can you tell me what set of map options you are generating (the whole list would be helpful, as I can then run the same options and see what happens)?

Also, are you using any mods?

Can someone please help me with my problem?

I don't have this problem and I use this Map Script all the time. I don't know what would cause that or even how I could reproduce having no flood plains. I get flood plains in plains, and grassland all the time, a lot more flood plains than regular civ 4 maps.

I never get floodplains either. I've been fiddling with a few settings but common themes are:
size: std -> huge
climate: temperate -or- tropical
sealevel: medium
era: ancient
continents: ~ random 3-8
terrain: standard -or- extra grass
features: smartmap
bonuses: smartmap normal
goodies: smartmap normal
ocean: normal
hills: normal
peaks: few
forest/jungle: normal forest/light jungle
river/lake: many rivers/normal lakes
start placement: smartmap
wrap: x
no overrides

i use smartmap random options for everything, and with myself and 1 other person we always get OOS after loading... anyone know about this?

i use smartmap random options for everything, and with myself and 1 other person we always get OOS after loading... anyone know about this?

Do you use any other mods? SmartMap really shouldn't be able to cause out of sync problems ... once the map is generated and copied to all users, smartmap is no longer active. Many people have reported success using SmartMap for multiplayer, do you have better luck if instead of all random options you choose all the default options?

If you are not the Administrator of the computer, you get a Python error while loading the map. I did not write down all the whole traceback (or save my python log) before trying to fix it, but it was line 3414 saying "Permission Denied".

I fixed it for myself by replacing every 'smartmap84.cfg' with "C:\\Documents and Settings\\Owner\\My Documents\\My Games\\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\\PublicMaps\\smartmap84.cfg". Replace "Owner" with your user name.

You can probably use Dr. Elmer Jiggle's CvPath.py (part of many mods here) to fix it in a way that works for everyone.

If you are not the Administrator of the computer, you get a Python error while loading the map. I did not write down all the whole traceback (or save my python log) before trying to fix it, but it was line 3414 saying "Permission Denied".

I fixed it for myself by replacing every 'smartmap84.cfg' with "C:\\Documents and Settings\\Owner\\My Documents\\My Games\\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\\PublicMaps\\smartmap84.cfg". Replace "Owner" with your user name.

You can probably use Dr. Elmer Jiggle's CvPath.py (part of many mods here) to fix it in a way that works for everyone.

Thanks, I'm surprised no one else has pointed that out.

ive noticed a few flaws in your script when i try a islands game with all grass terrain the islands dont spawn close togher so i have to wait till the renissence era to start a war

why is this

ive noticed a few flaws in your script when i try a islands game with all grass terrain the islands dont spawn close togher so i have to wait till the renissence era to start a war

why is this

try setting sea level to low, or using the separation override control. if you are using a medium or high sea level, it will force each island to be separated from all other islands by at least one ocean tile (medium) or three ocean tiles (high), both of which will make island hopping impossible until galleon.

Great map script! :goodjob:

Btw I'm wondering what are the corresponding percentages for small/normal/big ocean and few/normal/many hills & peaks?

Great map script! :goodjob:

Btw I'm wondering what are the corresponding percentages for small/normal/big ocean and few/normal/many hills & peaks?

small ocean = 50-75% random
normal ocean = 65-85% random
large ocean = 80-95% random

few hills = 10-17% random
normal hills = 14-27% random
many hills = 18-37% random

few peaks = 2-7% random
normal peaks = 4-11% random
many peaks = 6-15% random

I've been using you script for a long time now surt, and it works great but I have a few questions and comments for you today. :)

Just so you know, I usually use "somewhat round - some fragments" for my land style with 4-12 continents, high seas and (number 3) frequent coastal crossings seperation override (so that foreign contacts using Galleys are possible before the discovery of Optics).

I am wondering, would something the size of say, Britain or Australia be considered islands or continents by your script? What are you thoughts on settings to use so that I can get more medium or large islands along with the normal continents?

Also, could you increase the fish/crab/clam percentages? I like to use coastal starts but oftentimes there aren't any of them to use at my starting location (if any). I think that 2 of them would be a good minimum.

Finally, could you add an option to increase the bonuses ALOT, where you could get resources just about anywhere? Sure it isn't realistic, but it would be alot of fun. I imagine it would be pretty easy to add. You could call the option "Smartmap Crazy" (or something).

Thanks and I'm looking forward to your response! :goodjob:

Thanks, I'm surprised no one else has pointed that out.

LPU (Least Priveleged User) bugs are commonly overlooked in Windows because everyone is an Administrator by default. Which results in many programs not working unless you are an Administrator. Which keeps people from changing that default, and viruses and spyware in business...

Civilization 4 is actually one of the best games I've seen out there regarding this issue. But there are still problems with mods put in the user MODS directory, even with the most recent patch.

So I am not at all surprised.

For some reason whenever i use smart map and under the terrain option choose "smartmap" i dont get any flood plains at all.

It says it makes flood plains more realistic in the read me for smart map with that option. But i looked on world builder and i didnt see ANY flood plains with that option.

I think this is a bug or something or maybe its negated by another option?
I've been noticing this lately as well. I can't remember exactly which settings I was using... perhaps: arid, 75% ocean, some random continents, Smartmap Strict Features, Clump both resources, High forest/Low jungle, High rivers/Low lakes, somewhat round/some fragments... sheesh, too many settings ;-)

I didn't really think much of it, but unless this is enough info, I'll poke around some more and see if I can reproduce the problem.

Thanks surt :)

I think the problem with this is that my script does produce fewer flood plains than the standard scripts. My script will more often 'promote' a desert to plains or grass if a river runs through it, rather than add a flood plains.

That said, I will increase the odds of getting floodplains in deserts with rivers, as the general scripts do seem to offer higher odds of having this happen.

Also, for people using the non-strict option, realize that you will be getting some of your floodplains on non-desert tiles.

I've been using you script for a long time now surt, and it works great but I have a few questions and comments for you today. :)

Just so you know, I usually use "somewhat round - some fragments" for my land style with 4-12 continents, high seas and (number 3) frequent coastal crossings seperation override (so that foreign contacts using Galleys are possible before the discovery of Optics).

I am wondering, would something the size of say, Britain or Australia be considered islands or continents by your script? What are you thoughts on settings to use so that I can get more medium or large islands along with the normal continents?

Also, could you increase the fish/crab/clam percentages? I like to use coastal starts but oftentimes there aren't any of them to use at my starting location (if any). I think that 2 of them would be a good minimum.

Finally, could you add an option to increase the bonuses ALOT, where you could get resources just about anywhere? Sure it isn't realistic, but it would be alot of fun. I imagine it would be pretty easy to add. You could call the option "Smartmap Crazy" (or something).

Thanks and I'm looking forward to your response! :goodjob:

You probably want to go with more continents and (maybe) a higher fragment level. This will build many small land masses, but join some of them, so that you will see more variety in the range of continent sizes.

I will add an option for even higher resource levels. I've also been thinking about adding a resource option where resource placement is not restricted by the usual rules, so that will likely get added soon. Interestingly enough, crazy was the name I was planning for it. There will be a similar option for terrain as well.

Sorry for the delay in the next version, I know this has been somewhat longer than usual. I've been pushing some extra hours with work that hasn't left me much time for SmartMap.

As a teaser: I've also started in on a rather significant new feature, that I think people will really like. I'm slowly refining it, so in another few days (maybe over the weekend) I'll be able to finish and release it.

Love the MapScript. Question, however. I play Temperate, SmartMap Strict Features, yet I never seem to get any flood plains. All I get are Desert/River tiles. Is this normal? I thought SmartMap Strict only generated tiles that are generated in the normal game? I've never seen Desert/River in the normal game.

Again, thanks for all your hard work!

HeadHoncho

When I play Tropical I get plenty of floodplains, including flooded grass (which makes a mighty fine place for a Cottage). Sometimes I even get flooded hills, whatever those might be. I'm guessing that the reduced number of desert squares means the floodplains have to go somewhere else. Once in a great while I will have a resource on the floodplain.

Love the MapScript. Question, however. I play Temperate, SmartMap Strict Features, yet I never seem to get any flood plains. All I get are Desert/River tiles. Is this normal? I thought SmartMap Strict only generated tiles that are generated in the normal game? I've never seen Desert/River in the normal game.

Again, thanks for all your hard work!

HeadHoncho

Strict means that it will only place tile combinations that civiv reports are legal, and civiv says that river/desert is legal.

That said, I will be changing it to make more deserts with rivers into floods.

http://ptth.net/civiv/crazy.jpg

Note the glorious floodplains/ice, the verdant hills/oasis/plains/freshwater cow, the friendly coastal deer.

You too will be able to enjoy such crazy maps over your memorial day weekend, with the soon forthcoming SmartMap 9.0

This is just to preview one of the new features: crazy
crazy terrain: placing all terrain randomly, so you get this wierd mix of desert, plains, snow, all in the same place!
crazy resources: places resources anywhere civiv will let it, yielding fun things like the coastal deer, or landbound whales
crazy features: jungle on snow, forest in the desert, oasis in the grassland hills, etc.

and of course as usual, you can use only the particular crazy options you want, in whatever combination you want.

Here's the feature I think a lot of civers will really love.
http://ptth.net/civiv/earthmaps.jpg
You can now select earth, north america, south america, africa, asia, australia, and europe as your land form (in the continents menu). You can generate them to any size, including custom sizes using the override width/height controls. Accuracy improves all the way to 600x300 (the limit of the source data). Of course, i've only generated a 256x128 as my largest test (biggest that will fit in 1Gig of memory for me). These pictures were taken on standard size maps.

The source data for these maps comes from nasa's blue marble imagery, so the land forms are highly accurate.

In the next minor update i'll include an option for taking source terrain from blue marble data also, for now you have to stick with the usual choices of random terrain generation.

On the front page now! Enjoy the fun over the weekend!
I left version8.7 there also, just in case there are any problems.

# 9.0
# New land layout: earth. Selecting this will generate the earth, with source data
# from a blue marble projection. This is a highly accurate earth layout, with peaks
# and hills somewhat fuzzed to make for a more playable map.
# Also added: north america, south america, africa, europe, asia, australia
# All of the new maps are based on blue marble data, and so are going to be more accurate
# than they are going to be strategically well designed, and resource placement will
# be random rather than historically accurate. The current version will also have
# generated terrain, but the next version will probably include an option to use
# terrain sampled from blue marble data.
# New resource placement options: very many (places a _lot_ of resources), crazy, and
# crazy many. The crazy options place resources on any workable tile. This makes for
# a rather different gameplay experience.
# New terrain placement option: crazy which will place terrains randomly.
# New feature placement option: crazy which will place features randomly.
# Protected read / write of the smartmap config file so file errors won't cause a script
# error, and moved the config file to the user dir, which should help people not playing
# as admin on windows.
# Improved odds of generating flood plains in desert river tiles.
# Changed the grid infos to be compatible with mods with arbitrary number of map sizes, which
# will make smartmap compatible with mods that have more than the usual number of map sizes.
# This change also makes SmartMap maps closer to the usual size.
# Improved speed for calculating the altitude of plots on very land heavy maps.
# Call the python garbage collector and clean up memory usage to allow larger maps. I can
# now generate maps somewhere around 10% larger than before. I can now generate a map
# with twice the area of the usual huge, and start it on my 1G computer.
# Base CivIV = 200M, 280x84, 65% ocean = 500M, 280x84 0% ocean = 700M, that's roughly
# 13K or so per additional land tile allocated by CivIV, so keep that in mind when
# deciding on your ocean levels.
# Fixed a bug that tried to place continents too close to the map edges some times.
# Fixed a bug with regenerate map that occurs if you load a first turn savegame and then
# immediately try to regenerate it, thanks skovran for the report.
# Cleaned up code in player placement, improved speed.
# Added catches to player placement to prevent overlapping starts. If an
# overlapping start is somehow generated (a bug reported a couple of times),
# it will now fallback to standard placement mode. I'm unsure how an overlapping start
# can ever happen in the first place, but this should really guarantee it is impossible
# for it to get through and actually place the players that way.
# Fixed a bug that would sometimes misjudge whether or not to place additional players
# on a large continent.
# Improved the way continents are calculated to be more accurate in certain cases around
# blocking peaks, and improved performance.

You are truly a coding hero.

About to take 9.0 for a spin in MP with SevoMod 2.9z

I wonder if I was still playing this game if it wasn't for this wonderful modding community.

Thanks for the update Surt, I will check it out. I just got through a marathon monarch game with a space race victory in 1720 on a map generated by smartmap. Best score ever for me, 20040! The map was totaly random options and it's hieght was 5 times longer than it's width, so VERY skinny map. But it was fun, it made 6 continents for 18 civs and they were all pretty evenly balanced, accept the one furthest south was kinda jammed against the map edge. Glad to see you did a fix for that. Anyway, I will check out 9.0 and let you know how it goes. Keep up the great work!

EDIT: Starting a new Marathon Monarch game, attaching screenshot of settings, 18 civs, gonna play Civmore this time and try for a religious victory, will let you know how it goes :D

i found a bug or just might be a one off

pretty sure its self explaing

http://img124.imageshack.us/img124/159/civ4screenshot00478kg.jpg

this one was taken in world builder

http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/292/civ4screenshot00483hv.jpg

and another crazy one

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/8776/civ4screenshot00495fp.jpg

this only does it with yur crazy and Very crazy resource opyion

and another crazy one

this only does it with yur crazy and Very crazy resource opyion

That would be the point of the crazy resource option. Resources can land anywhere. Sea resources on land and land on sea can't be 'used' but they affect the tiles food/production/commerce.

yea but we can harvest them to there full potentional and it looks just plain stupid

Maybe you can call this option SmartMap Silly and make another one for SmartMap Crazy.

Also, I would like to request an option for Many Rivers, No Lakes

surt, what is the difference between very many, crazy many and crazy? Sorry if this has been answered already. I haven't been able to try the new version yet.

Thanks

surt, what is the difference between very many, crazy many and crazy? Sorry if this has been answered already. I haven't been able to try the new version yet.

Thanks

very many = lots of resources placed normally
crazy = resources placed wherever
crazy many = lots of resources placed wherever

In the next version I'm going to separate out the resource placement rules from the resource placement amounts.

That sounds like a good addition surt :clap:

So ive downloaded the file but where do i save it? Do isave it in a certain location or sumthin?

So ive downloaded the file but where do i save it? Do isave it in a certain location or sumthin?

Detailed instructions are in the accompanying readme file, but basically put smartmap.py in your:

where_ever_you_installed_Civ4\PublicMaps\

directory.

Then select smartmap under custom game.

LOL. Really? I should start reading more. Anyways Thanks letting me kno i really appreciate it Dude! :goodjob:

Soon enough, we're going to have to start referring to Surt as Map Scripting Jesus.

I love your work Surt! :goodjob:


any way to get rid of those pesky jungles and have a no jungle option added?

like Normal Forests, no jungle

I think jungles are useless anyway ;)

It is easy to make an addition to the menu and then put appropriate settings.

Love the idea, and the maps I'm given. Keep it up :)

I love your work Surt! :goodjob:


any way to get rid of those pesky jungles and have a no jungle option added?

like Normal Forests, no jungle

I think jungles are useless anyway ;)

I second this. Add an option for Jungle and no Forests too.

ahh..


I found a way around it....


I just modified the production numbers where you get something for chopping down jungles
(since all they cause is unhealthiness near cities - well besides the defense bonus)


I made it not as much as forests but thatis okay ;)


so I this change will work for me :D

I second this. Add an option for Jungle and no Forests too.

Since it's trivial and multiple people have mentioned it, i'll go ahead and add a no jungle / no forest option in the next version.

I like the variety of maps SmartMap produces. But I have a question does this script place special resources such as manna nodes from Fall from Heaven 2?

I like the variety of maps SmartMap produces. But I have a question does this script place special resources such as manna nodes from Fall from Heaven 2?

It should. It places resources from a variety of other mods, I've not tried Fall from heaven 1/2 specifically. It should place any normally added resource, but may not now how heavy a distribution such a resource is supposed to have.

It definitely works with FfH1/2. I think that the resource weighting is done somewhere outside the mapscript, my guess would be where the resources themselves are defined... I say that because previous versions of FfH had some problems with specific resource distribution, but that was fixed internally by the team.

I use this all the time with FfH, it works quite well!

surt, one thing, as a quality of life.. some of your percentage driven numbers still don't have a marker to show where the "default" is. Oceans, for example. It would be nice if to add notes that would be(similar to the Map Override options).. 70%(Earth Default), or 80%(Archipeligo Default) and the like.. just so we know out markers are and can adjust accordingly.

Cheers!

Hey, first off great work. I love Smart Map and have used it for several versions now. I was excited to see the new version has a customized Earth map, and started playing it right away. It's a great idea and it's really impressive, but my one complaint is that the game places civilizations in Anarctica. I wanted to do a New World map so everyone started in Europe, Asia, or Africa, with the Americas ready to colonize. But the problem is with civilizations starting in Anarctica is it is really an unfair advantage because the Artic is far less fertile of land, and furthermore, it's really irritating that the civilizations starting in the Arctic "circumnavigate the globe" in like 2000 BC because they live on land that extends across the entire globe. There has to be a way you can make it so that nobody starts on Anarctica. I think that would make the game much more fair and more fun. I personally don't really see the need for even putting land in Anarctica since it is really only tundra that nobody lives on. So far, that's my only complaint about the new SmartMap, but overall, great job again. Keep it up.

any way to fix the antarctica problem? its driving me crazy... I just don't want anyone to start there, or at least I don't want it to be able to walk across the entire globe because of the land on the continent... I've tried a ton of different options and none have worked, I think the earth feature is an awesome idea for a map but the antarctica problem really kinda defeats the purpose of it...

For now you can use an external map editor to change starting locations.

any way to fix the antarctica problem? its driving me crazy... I just don't want anyone to start there, or at least I don't want it to be able to walk across the entire globe because of the land on the continent... I've tried a ton of different options and none have worked, I think the earth feature is an awesome idea for a map but the antarctica problem really kinda defeats the purpose of it...

As a temporary work around, you can do this if you're willing to edit your local copy of the map script:

A tiny change, look for:

#the whole earth
elif continentCount == -30:
fromMap = True
sourceData = blueMarbleHeightData
minXPct = 0
minYPct = 0
maxXPct = 100
maxYPct = 100

change to:

#the whole earth
elif continentCount == -30:
fromMap = True
sourceData = blueMarbleHeightData
minXPct = 0
minYPct = 15
maxXPct = 100
maxYPct = 100


This will crop out the bottom 15% of the map, removing all of the antarctic land.

This may in fact be what I go with to address this issue in the next version.

Okay Surt, thanks a lot!

Alright, I just edited it and tried it out, works perfect! No land at all in Antarctica and everything else seems great, thanks again and great work!

Hi Surt
Another one using your smartmap.
I really like it, it extends the lifetime of the game alot.
I just have a request like so many others, which you actually in a way already have made.
It's about the strategic resources. It would be nice to be able to limit their numbers a bit. E.g. 20%. Then the maps would be a bit like earth, where there is'nt e.g. Uranium i all areas. It would force more nations to trade and sometimes make nations more or less powerful.
I think the best way would be that you in the smartmap sets the number for e.g. uranium to e.g. 14 and the programme would then dispurse 14 uranium tiles.
I don't know if it possible or difficult to add.

Thanks a lot
michaelhss

Hi Surt
Another one using your smartmap.
I really like it, it extends the lifetime of the game alot.
I just have a request like so many others, which you actually in a way already have made.
It's about the strategic resources. It would be nice to be able to limit their numbers a bit. E.g. 20%. Then the maps would be a bit like earth, where there is'nt e.g. Uranium i all areas. It would force more nations to trade and sometimes make nations more or less powerful.
I think the best way would be that you in the smartmap sets the number for e.g. uranium to e.g. 14 and the programme would then dispurse 14 uranium tiles.
I don't know if it possible or difficult to add.

Thanks a lot
michaelhss

I am working on splitting the resource placement rules from the resource frequency rules, which will allow the next version to give you a lot more control over how many resources are placed. I will also have a look at what tweaks I can make possible for those who still don't wind up happy with the resource placement options.

Resource placement and amounts is a very contentious subject. People like a wide range of very different things, and it isn't possible to please everyone on this subject, but i'm giving it a big upgrade in the next version to at least try.

Im still getting the problem of civilizations placement

(my bro too since we are playing in MP)

all civs start near each other where human players get "boxed" in early... but there are lots of empty areas of land around the AI Civs

I am using the 9.0 version

playing on pagea (large single land mass)

large map

(XY override)

12-15 Civs

health clump



just thought you'd want to hear about it?

any other peeps getting this problem with the new version?

Im still getting the problem of civilizations placement

(my bro too since we are playing in MP)

all civs start near each other where human players get "boxed" in early... but there are lots of empty areas of land around the AI Civs

I am using the 9.0 version

playing on pagea (large single land mass)

large map

(XY override)

12-15 Civs

health clump



just thought you'd want to hear about it?

any other peeps getting this problem with the new version?

Any chance you could get me a savegame with this problem? I really can't guess how this is happening, the player placement doesn't know if you're a human or an AI, it ought to be completely fair.

Any chance you could get me a savegame with this problem? I really can't guess how this is happening, the player placement doesn't know if you're a human or an AI, it ought to be completely fair.


sorry :(

already erased those games...

Im working on a new mod... (should be finished for beta testing later today)


I'll try smartmap with the new mod and report back my results ;)


thanks for your response

this script is :king:

I'm getting closer to finishing 9.1. A nice new feature that I just got working is that it can now load any civ4WorldBuilderSave (WBS) file, and use that as the shape of the land (so for example, you can load the Eastern United States map to get an eastern united states shaped map). But in an added bit of coolness, you'll be able to get that map scaled to any size you want, rather than being set at the size given by the WBS. So rather than be stuck with eastern US being 55x51, you can have it be 128x64, or whatever size or shape you'd like.

It will also automatically notice any downloaded maps you have in your public maps folder, so if, for example, you were to download KR's big earth map, you could use that as the map shape as well.

All in all I think this is one of the neater features I've ever added, I think people will really find a lot of uses for this.

Surt - how do you get the pre-made maps (e.g. Europe, N. America) to be shaped more like they are in reality? What do the settings for roundness, etc need to be for this to work. I keep getting very oddly-shaped variations. Also, how do we get terrain to be closer to reality. I like some randomness, but deserts in the middle of Germany is not what I had in mind... :)

That sounds great.

Surt - how do you get the pre-made maps (e.g. Europe, N. America) to be shaped more like they are in reality? What do the settings for roundness, etc need to be for this to work. I keep getting very oddly-shaped variations. Also, how do we get terrain to be closer to reality. I like some randomness, but deserts in the middle of Germany is not what I had in mind... :)

So ... with the terrain there's nothing you can do for now. The terrain is generated using the usual method, so near the german 'equator' you'll be getting desert. That's unfortunate, I agree, so in the next version you'll be able to use terrain sampled from blue marble for more earthly terrain.

With the continent shapes ... there's not a great deal I can do. In the next version, you'll be able to use WBS maps for the shape, which will give you more options, but basically right now I'm stuck with taking the shapes from blue marble data, and their map projections maybe aren't what people are quite used to (people are more familiar with a less accurate map ...), they are actually more like they are in reality than most maps you see. The settings for roundness etc are ignored for maps using the fixed earth shapes.

The maximum accuracy you'll get for a map image is to use a 2:1 width:height ratio. (use the width/height overrides)

This version now loads WBS files for land form and terrain! Also has blue marble sampled terrain for the earth maps.

Get it on the front page as usual.

# 9.1
# Added support for loading and resizing Civ4WorldBuilderSave files (WBS files), you'll
# find them in the 'continents' menu since they define the land shape for the map.
# Added support for loading terrains from map (WBS) see option: 'use map data' in terrain menu.
# This should resolve the 'unrealistic terrain' problem for the BlueMarble based maps as well.
# Sampled terrain from blue marble data for earth based maps.
# Tweaked 'earth' map option to remove useless antarctica.
# Tweaked player placement to be less willing to place players near the poles.
# Changed crazy resource option to place land/water resources only on those tiles.
# Split resource placement rules from resource density controls. The combination of the
# two was creating too much confusion over what option did what to resources. Hopefully
# the resource controls will be both clearer and give you more options now.
#

Yes, I will support bonuses and features from WBS in the next version, but I'm going to have a busy week.

Bonuses/Features are also going to have more blatant issues with duplication in upscaling, so I may need to do more work there to make it reasonable.

I always get ice caps on the side of my map/scenario, what am i doing wrong?

I always get ice caps on the side of my map/scenario, what am i doing wrong?
You might be mixing up your xy wrap. Check the "wrap" option near the bottom of the options.

I always get ice caps on the side of my map/scenario, what am i doing wrong?

As the other poster said, SmartMap puts ice along the unnavigatable edge of the world. I did this mostly because civ4 versions up to 1.52 had an ugly graphic glitch if you wound up with certain combinations of tiles on the map border.

I may go ahead and review this for the next version, it may be that they've fixed that in 1.61, I never checked.

How can i play with Smartmaps AND Fall from Haven 2 mod ?
It doesn't work....:cry: :cry: :cry:

The (very unhappy) Frog.

Sorry it's works....i've made the "common" mistake....:blush:

Will there have a traduction (in french for exemple,:) )?

Even with the read me, it's easy to understand everything.:confused:

The (now happy) Frog.

Let it be known that, by my non-existant authority, Surt shall henceforth be known as Map-Scripting Jesus.

Any chance Terra type maps will become available in Smartmap? :)

Sorry it's works....i've made the "common" mistake....:blush:

Will there have a traduction (in french for exemple,:) )?

Even with the read me, it's easy to understand everything.:confused:

The (now happy) Frog.

I assume you mean a translation into french, and that it is not easy to understand everything.

I'd be happy to have a french translation, however, that would require somebody do the translation for me.

Any dual language people want to volunteer?

Any chance Terra type maps will become available in Smartmap? :)

It's vaguely possible. When I get some time to look into it I'm going to see if I can dynamically load logic from other scripts.

It's vaguely possible. When I get some time to look into it I'm going to see if I can dynamically load logic from other scripts.

I do not know what you mean by "dynamically load logic". However you can just import any of the other mapscripts and call their public functions whenever you want. I also know that python files that are not mapscripts can be placed in arbritrary subdirectories of CustomAssets/python and imported to scripts in PublicMaps.

Edit: I know this because I've messed around with your script once or twice...

I do not know what you mean by "dynamically load logic". However you can just import any of the other mapscripts and call their public functions whenever you want. I also know that python files that are not mapscripts can be placed in arbritrary subdirectories of CustomAssets/python and imported to scripts in PublicMaps.

Edit: I know this because I've messed around with your script once or twice...

The last time I tried it didn't work, which is why I have copies of the interesting sections of other scripts in smartmap right now. Civ4 had some odd issues with import orders because of the dynamically generated c++ interface.

The last time I tried it didn't work, which is why I have copies of the interesting sections of other scripts in smartmap right now. Civ4 had some odd issues with import orders because of the dynamically generated c++ interface.

Just occurred to me the python library I had successfully imported from CustomAssets doesn't try to call the C++. I should have tried that.

Oh well, thanks to you I really don't have to play around with mapscripts too much. :)

Just occurred to me the python library I had successfully imported from CustomAssets doesn't try to call the C++. I should have tried that.

Oh well, thanks to you I really don't have to play around with mapscripts too much. :)

Well, the last time I played with it was back in civ4 1.09. And I had pretty much just learned python, so I may have just done it wrong. We'll just see if I have better luck this time around.

First of all, a huge thank you for an impressive piece of work. This adds a ton to the game.

One minor issue is that snow and tundra seem to be too widespread at a variety of settings. I am assuming that this is a matter of taste, making me wish that, similar to peaks, you could actually select a percentage for these terrains. I don't really want to eliminate them, I just want to prevent them from taking over the map.

For me, a larger issue is the homogenous nature of the world. This might be beneficial in multiplayer, but I find single player a lot more fun if different regions of the world are very distinct. In fact, that is what I find lacking in Civ IV's terra -- the new world seems to be pretty much like the old world, so what's to get worked up over). Are there existing settings which overcome this? Is it even possible?

You can change that yourself by editing the XML.

First of all, a huge thank you for an impressive piece of work. This adds a ton to the game.

One minor issue is that snow and tundra seem to be too widespread at a variety of settings. I am assuming that this is a matter of taste, making me wish that, similar to peaks, you could actually select a percentage for these terrains. I don't really want to eliminate them, I just want to prevent them from taking over the map.

For me, a larger issue is the homogenous nature of the world. This might be beneficial in multiplayer, but I find single player a lot more fun if different regions of the world are very distinct. In fact, that is what I find lacking in Civ IV's terra -- the new world seems to be pretty much like the old world, so what's to get worked up over). Are there existing settings which overcome this? Is it even possible?

For less snow and tundra, try playing on tropical instead of temperate.

As for a less homogenous world ... I think that would depend on what you're looking for ... different continent shapes, or different terrains? Civ4 just doesn't have a ton of range (only 4 plot types, 7 terrains), and of those only 3 plot types are land (flat,hill,peak - and peak is pointless), and of the terrains, snow and tundra are pretty useless, really leaving just grass, plains, deserts to try to make distinctive areas with.

There's just not a lot to work with, and it's particularly difficult to make things un-varied yet at least plausibly fair to more than a couple of the players (human or ai).

Still I welcome ideas on how to do this. I'm also happy to integrate a new terrain / feature gen if you're python inclined.

For less snow and tundra, try playing on tropical instead of temperate.
I should have been more clear in my original post -- I already play on tropical, and still start in arctic waste about half the time. When I first tried Smart Map, and used other settings, I was getting maps that were overwhelmingly arctic.

As for a less homogenous world ... I think that would depend on what you're looking for ... different continent shapes, or different terrains? Civ4 just doesn't have a ton of range (only 4 plot types, 7 terrains), and of those only 3 plot types are land (flat,hill,peak - and peak is pointless), and of the terrains, snow and tundra are pretty useless, really leaving just grass, plains, deserts to try to make distinctive areas with.

There's just not a lot to work with, and it's particularly difficult to make things un-varied yet at least plausibly fair to more than a couple of the players (human or ai).

Still I welcome ideas on how to do this. I'm also happy to integrate a new terrain / feature gen if you're python inclined.I see your point, especially about the fairness issue.

Some possibilities:
Terrain: Wetlands -- Not only would this be realistic, but it could also tend towards game balancing. Rivers have always been a huge advantage, but with the vast increase of available food along rivers, with the extension of flood plains to other plot types, rivers now make or break a civ. In truth, the presence of wetlands limits available usable land along rivers, and is also the source of significant disease.

Plot type: Mountain (the Civ 3 type, traversible, open to mining) - I think Peaks add a lot to the game, but losing mountains costs a lot to playability. Cities built in such locations are not likely to be economic powerhouses, but they sure are hell to conquer -- especially if troops are allowed to gain appropriate promotions.

Other possibilities: savannah and/or prarie

One other concern I have is that, except in Smart Map strict, the frequency of flood plains in hill, plains, and grassland squares is changing game balance too much. It would be nice to be able to choose to tone town the frequency of flood plains, without going all the way to "strict."

I just thought I'd share this one...
http://img159.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tehstartspot00005ye.jpg

...I know canada is a cold country, but that's just ridiculous :lol:

(btw, I was using X-Y no loop because my video card has fog-removing issues with the map edges.)

How about preventing continents from landing on the ice like that? That'd solve the problem...
Or making loops Iceless? Or hell, Iceless maps?
Other than that, I'm gonna keep tweeking with those lovely settings...

I should have been more clear in my original post -- I already play on tropical, and still start in arctic waste about half the time. When I first tried Smart Map, and used other settings, I was getting maps that were overwhelmingly arctic.

I will have a look, perhaps I've accidentally broken something. Tropical maps should have very little snow.


I see your point, especially about the fairness issue.

Some possibilities:
Terrain: Wetlands -- Not only would this be realistic, but it could also tend towards game balancing. Rivers have always been a huge advantage, but with the vast increase of available food along rivers, with the extension of flood plains to other plot types, rivers now make or break a civ. In truth, the presence of wetlands limits available usable land along rivers, and is also the source of significant disease.

Plot type: Mountain (the Civ 3 type, traversible, open to mining) - I think Peaks add a lot to the game, but losing mountains costs a lot to playability. Cities built in such locations are not likely to be economic powerhouses, but they sure are hell to conquer -- especially if troops are allowed to gain appropriate promotions.

Other possibilities: savannah and/or prarie


This is unfortunately beyond what you can do in a map script, this sort of change requires an actual mod. I'm currently avoiding making any mods in SmartMap because I want to keep SmartMap compatible with other mods.

One other concern I have is that, except in Smart Map strict, the frequency of flood plains in hill, plains, and grassland squares is changing game balance too much. It would be nice to be able to choose to tone town the frequency of flood plains, without going all the way to "strict."

This I will look at a little. It's something of a preference factor, but probably not worth a bunch of new menu options. I'm going to try to move more of the 'unusual' configuration of SmartMap to an obvious place so that people can edit it to their preferred style.

I just thought I'd share this one...
http://img159.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tehstartspot00005ye.jpg

...I know canada is a cold country, but that's just ridiculous :lol:

(btw, I was using X-Y no loop because my video card has fog-removing issues with the map edges.)

How about preventing continents from landing on the ice like that? That'd solve the problem...
Or making loops Iceless? Or hell, Iceless maps?
Other than that, I'm gonna keep tweeking with those lovely settings...

Yeah, you're getting a lot of ice/snow because you have non-wrap in both direction. I'm going to look at tweaking this a bit in the next version, and i'll make no-ice an accessible option somewhere.

I like the call for areas of the map that feel different from each other. I also understand why you can't make different regions of the world vary too much as far as what tiles they get, making a grassland continent and a plains continent so that the player feels the land is very different.

But what if on a "Varied Regions" map you might have some continents that are compact collection of islands, mini archipelagos if you will, some that are "Round/No fragments," and some that are "Very Round/No Fragments" Another option that would be fairly balanced is to have one region of the world get most of its fresh water from lakes (80% maybe) and another to get most of its fresh water from rivers. The irrigation and commerce should kind of level out, but the two areas look remarkably different from each other and therefore feel like different lands.

Other ways I can think of to make continents fair (a roughly equal mix of tiles types) but still feel varied:

"Regionalized Resources." This option would use the standard amount of luxury and health resources, but would restrict each one to occur in something like 2 Regions of the map, with each region covering about 10% of the land area. This is better than clumping them so one civ can get them all with a well placed city because it lends a whole area of the map a unique feature... only in the southeaster continent can you get spices, for example... but those spices might be spread out over 3 civs.

Percentage of "useless territory." One continent could have triple the amount of peaks as another, but also be much larger. So the usable space on the continents are equal but once again they each feel very different.

Hi surt,

I'm using 9.1 and I got a rather strange map, resource-wise. My resource settings were "clump both"and "very high levels of all". The thing is, there aren't very high levels of food resources at ALL. There's not a single wheat resource in the whole map, not a single rice, exactly ONE cow and ONE sheep...

I'm using Sevomod3.0c with the megalopolis addon, in case that matters.

Hello,

we get a big, ugly, red message into the middle of the screen when trying to player a multiplayer game with SmartMap 9.1, Sevomod 3A and Civ IV patch V1.61 on both PCs.

Anyone any suggestions?

Thanx

Hello,

we get a big, ugly, red message into the middle of the screen when trying to player a multiplayer game with SmartMap 9.1, Sevomod 3A and Civ IV patch V1.61 on both PCs.

Anyone any suggestions?

Thanx

if the message is "OUT OF SYNC... users are need to reconnect..." or something like that....

well it's probably your sevomod 3A Mod, not smartmap


Smartmap doesnt cause OOS errors (at least im aware of)

Ive been using smartmap for while (all versions) and I never get that OOS error... (I play MP all the time with my brother through a LAN or Direct IP connection)


FYI:

OOS errors are usually caused by python (possibly SDK... dont know since I havent used any SDK mods) editing where AI behavior changes/scripts are added...


any python editing that doesnt change or modify AI usually works fine...

since smartmap does not change AI behavior... it shouldnt cause any OOS

In my experience Any xml editing does not cause OOS errors...

if that the error message is not OOS ... please ignore my post :mischief:

(and maybe post what the error msg is, so surt can help you better :goodjob: )


hope that helps ;)


EDIT: I just read your subject line... silly me :crazyeye: so your error is OOS and I believe my info applies... :lol:

Hi Officer Reene, Thnx for your explanation regarding our OOS message with Awaro9!

Well, the reason why our suspicion fall on Smartmap was the fact having no problems in our multiplayer games without smartmap9.1, but with Sevomod3A... :confused:

If Smarmap itself is not able to cause such OOS problems, maybe it doesn't work well together with Sevomod??? :sad:

Well, i have to confess, we missed to try Smartmap without Sevomod, but this will be our next task, I guess... :crazyeye:

We consider it as a disaster, playing without Smarmap, so pls, help! :cry:

Wow this looks great, can this be used to start a Multiplayer game?

Hi surt,

I'm using 9.1 and I got a rather strange map, resource-wise. My resource settings were "clump both"and "very high levels of all". The thing is, there aren't very high levels of food resources at ALL. There's not a single wheat resource in the whole map, not a single rice, exactly ONE cow and ONE sheep...

I'm using Sevomod3.0c with the megalopolis addon, in case that matters.

Clumped resources use the standard generator currently. At some point I'll write my own clumper but I haven't gotten around to it. In any case, any resource that falls in the clumped category will currently just get the default amount created, regardless of how high you set the resource level.

Hello,

we get a big, ugly, red message into the middle of the screen when trying to player a multiplayer game with SmartMap 9.1, Sevomod 3A and Civ IV patch V1.61 on both PCs.

Anyone any suggestions?

Thanx

There is some possibility of a bad interaction between SmartMap & Sevomod. I know a lot of people are using SmartMap in multiplayer in general. I'll try to look into this when I get a chance, but it will be at least a week or so before I can.

There's really very little reason why SmartMap should be different from any of the standard map scripts in terms of OOS errors, though. So my first suspicion is going to be something in SevoMod.

Wow this looks great, can this be used to start a Multiplayer game?

Pretty much yes. There are occasional reports that it doesn't work right with some specific mod, which so far have all turned out to be a problem with the mod.

I had an issue, with SmartMap 9.1. It worked fine for a while, on a whim I installed Dale's Combat Mod. It worked with that. But then tried a MP game with OUT the mod, and it came up OOS. I have deleted the Combat Mod, but I still get the OOS errors...not quite sure what to make of that. It happens less often, but it still happens. :confused: AFAIK the mod is a completely seperate entity and if it's not loaded it shouldn't cause any problems.

Hey again, these map formations are great !

I see a problem that someone mentioned before but it goes a bit beyond simple bonuses.

Ive noticed in regular default map maker that resources are somewhat region specific. In the smartmap there seem to be an overabundance of resources, and they are scattered all around, (Bananas 3 spaces from tundra) (5-6 different resources available to 1 well placed city.)

Also seems likely some players would'nt benefit diplomatically from trading because they possess all of the resources available.

131355 131356


131357 131358

Hey again, these map formations are great !

I see a problem that someone mentioned before but it goes a bit beyond simple bonuses.

Ive noticed in regular default map maker that resources are somewhat region specific. In the smartmap there seem to be an overabundance of resources, and they are scattered all around, (Bananas 3 spaces from tundra) (5-6 different resources available to 1 well placed city.)

Also seems likely some players would'nt benefit diplomatically from trading because they possess all of the resources available.

You probably want to set the resource option to 'clump both' and maybe reduce the resource density as well. You can also use 'standard' resource distribution which will look just like normal maps.

Hi Officer Reene, Thnx for your explanation regarding our OOS message with Awaro9!

No Problem :D

I had OOS errors in MP and I was determined to find out what the cause was... :mad:

Well, the reason why our suspicion fall on Smartmap was the fact having no problems in our multiplayer games without smartmap9.1, but with Sevomod3A... :confused:

did you play a game all the way through?

Sometimes OOC errors dont occur right away...

a couple of times I was playing games that the OOC error didnt apppear until 1600's AD (normal Game Speed)



If Smarmap itself is not able to cause such OOS problems, maybe it doesn't work well together with Sevomod??? :sad:


as surt says, it may be a an interaction between the two mods... :sad:

that is why I try to use mods that edit XML files and only make minor Python Changes without major AI behavioral changes... :goodjob:

In Mp, getting OOS, using no other mods. game says to rejoin and after rejoining settler is in a different spot, with no movement points. Screen below.

also settler is preset to move on rejoining as shown..?131394

131395

btw those tips on resources work cool , thx.

this happened twice, 1st time settler was in another spot, this time he was in same spot rdy to move.

Hi , i took a look at the script because i had an OOS too ... So may be you can try that waiting for Surt ' improvement . All player must select smartmap into the single player menu before launching a mp game . I think that can solve the problem but i can test it so i'm not sure !

Tcho!

Gazoontite !

Yeah i can give that setting up for sp first a try, thought we did walk through options together in custom game before setting up on MP, but not sure if those settings carry over to sp, can give it a try a little later.

No problem with that , you don't have to choose the settings (there 's an initialization of a variable that is done at the set of the menu option . and it is not done if the non hosting player have not smartmap at the preselected map : the last map played in sp ) . But there is another initialization at the beginning of the lauching of a MP game . So i know that there is a problem there , but even don't know if it is enough to prevent OOS .

Now that i think of it, we both loaded single player maps using smart map, looking over the map types.

Surt... just dropping a big thank_you for such an awesome tool. I could not imagine playing CIV_4 without this priceless tool.

When's the next version expected to arrive ? :D

Getting OOS too, had no problem with the previous version.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=176446

Both me and my friends have smart mod have it selected in single player with the same sub settings no mods installed (i dont even know what svemod is)

I have byzantine civ but obviosuly i dont load it when we play smart maps i dont know what the problem is?

any adivce?

I'll have a look at all the code that changed between the previous version and this one to try to identify what might be causing OOS. The next version will probably be another week or two, as I'm currently on a long business trip.

First off, I have to say... I've been using this map script for about 2 weeks now and I love it. Great map script! Thank you for the time and effort you have put into it. I'd give you a gold medal if I had the power.

That said, I do have one tiny issue with it. Lakes. No matter what settings I use it makes about 50 billion (exageration OMG!) lakes on every continent. I've tried it with multiple different settings and nothing has done any good (including the fewest lakes option). No matter what I do it puts tons of lakes. This is the only thing I really don't care for in the script. I don't suppose it would be possible to make the fewest lake option have considerably fewer lakes? I feel stupid even asking after you have already done so much but if you happen to get around to it that would be awesome and this would be flawless. I'd have no need to use any other map script ever. :)

Thanks again for a great contribution. Much appreciated!

Regarding ChronoCore's statement, perhaps you could add a "No Lakes" option?

Keep up the amazing work surt.

I hope I can contribute to a recent discussion and also bring up some new ideas.

I like Mediterranean-style maps. The Mediterranean is one example. Here are other examples of maps with a central sea and land masses bleeding off the sides.
http://www.dodgenet.com/~moonblossom/Elric/ykmanag.jpg
http://www.nysalor.net/runequest/kartat/glorantha/glo1.png
The first one is a better example. Also, my personal preference would be to have more land bridges around the edges than these maps have. But you get the idea. Maps like this have partly a continents flavor, but partly an archipelago flavor, and a central naval highway that provides interesting connections. Well, I believe no map script does anything like this. So it would be cool if you wanted Smartmap to do it.

I also like is predesigned maps. To me they have more character and a more compelling sense of place and story.

Check out the maps that come with The Ancient Mediterranean mod. The Magna Graecia and Fertile Crescent maps have a distinct style that makes for interesting play. But I'd like to focus on the "TAM Mediterranean Normal" map as a challenge target for how a map can be interesting in ways not currently implemented by any map script. This will be easiest to follow if you can look at the map itself, but:

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/9940/tam10gw.th.jpg (http://img98.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tam10gw.jpg)
http://img93.imageshack.us/img93/4858/tam22hb.th.jpg (http://img93.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tam22hb.jpg)
http://img93.imageshack.us/img93/5231/tam34cd.th.jpg (http://img93.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tam34cd.jpg)
http://img77.imageshack.us/img77/9629/tam45zh.th.jpg (http://img77.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tam45zh.jpg)

One thing I like is the "soft partitioning" of the map into seas, subcontinents, penninsulas, and islands, connected and blocked in different ways by channels, isthmuses, and mountains. The partitioning partly arises from the way the mountains and hills form ridgelines.

The partitioning suggests subregions. Even if the content within each subregion was completely random, if you were playing the map, you'd still attribute some identity to the different subregions.

But the rest of the content is not completely random. Terrain and features give a distinct flavor to various subregions. I want to argue that even the limited elements that maps have can be combined into interesting patterns.

Along the West African coast there's a flat, fertile strip at the coast, then a fertile, wooded ridgeline, then an arid valley, then a very arid ridgeline, then a flat desert.

Farther east along the African coast, there's a strip of plains before you hit the desert farther inland. Yet it's practical to settle the coast because of resources, and because of oases that provide fresh water to some of the plains tiles.

In Turkey there's a fertile region in the West, a wooded, hilly region in the North, an arid plateau or valley in the middle, and an arid, hilly, peaky region in the south.

The Caucasus is peaky, fertile, and wooded.

North of the Caucasus is a flat, uniform plain. Very distinct from the region next door! Despite the uniformity, it can be settled because of resources, which aren't uniform, and because it's not that large an area, so it bleeds into other subregions at the edges.

West into the Crimea it's similar, but fertile.

The Tigris and Euphrates flow through what is very clearly a flood plain. To the northeast, it’s rocky and arid. To the west, plains. To the south, desert. The east coast of the Mediterranean is fertile, then gets arid as it goes over the ridgeline.

Resources also add flavor. Opium is only in the east. Elephants are only in West Africa. Wine is only in an arc from Spain through southern France into Italy.

You could get fancier. "Horses only occur in open areas, with open tiles surrounding." "Clams and Clay only occur near the mouths of rivers". “Cows only occur on grasslands or plains rivers”.

Some properties of resources can be read from the XML. It’s conceivable that some could be invented: for example if it is not clear that resource X is a critical military resource that must be distributed across the map for balance, a run of a map script could invent constraints on the distribution of X for the current map. Some things would only be practical with richer XML for the resources.

A related issue is what the scale of the map is supposed to be. Imagining that the map represents different amounts of real area causes you to think differently about things in subtle ways. For example the Magna Graecia map in The Ancient Mediterranean is at a small scale, and it’s geared to an ancient economy. So you get distributed, struggling cities near scarce resources, and you get a lot of poorly-inhabitable barbarian regions. It’s pretty cool.

I’ve considered trying to program some of this, starting with Mediterranean-style land outlines. If SmartMap did it, I might not try. But I got to Hello World, and can I ask... Can you get a map script to reload without restarting the Civ application? Also it appears that to generate the underlying fractals, the Python code calls CvFractal, which is in the SDK, through a layer CyFractal that is not in the SDK. Is that right? Does anything significant happen in CyFractal, or is all the action in CvFractal?

Also it appears that to generate the underlying fractals, the Python code calls CvFractal, which is in the SDK, through a layer CyFractal that is not in the SDK. Is that right? Does anything significant happen in CyFractal, or is all the action in CvFractal?
I haven't looked at these files specifically, but normally when both Cy and Cv versions of a file exist, the former is just a long list of what are known as wrapper functions that allow C++ functions to be called in Python. What this means is that you can use the C++ functions relatively easily, but if you want to modify them or add more of them you have to get into the SDK.

I hope I can contribute to a recent discussion and also bring up some new ideas.

I like Mediterranean-style maps. The Mediterranean is one example. Here are other examples of maps with a central sea and land masses bleeding off the sides.
The first one is a better example. Also, my personal preference would be to have more land bridges around the edges than these maps have. But you get the idea. Maps like this have partly a continents flavor, but partly an archipelago flavor, and a central naval highway that provides interesting connections. Well, I believe no map script does anything like this. So it would be cool if you wanted Smartmap to do it.


The basic idea of central navy highway isn't too hard, I may throw that in when I get a chance.


I also like is predesigned maps. To me they have more character and a more compelling sense of place and story.


That's why i've added the ability for smartmap to load designed maps and reshape them. It gives you the added flexibility of getting non-predictable resource placement, and other subtle changes, while getting the other features that make up more of the strategic design of the map.


The partitioning suggests subregions. Even if the content within each subregion was completely random, if you were playing the map, you'd still attribute some identity to the different subregions.

But the rest of the content is not completely random. Terrain and features give a distinct flavor to various subregions. I want to argue that even the limited elements that maps have can be combined into interesting patterns.

...


The main problem with that is that it is hard to do randomly. Defining a lot of patterns requires a lot of logic. Then combining them in a way that doesn't look bad is a challenge.


You could get fancier. "Horses only occur in open areas, with open tiles surrounding." "Clams and Clay only occur near the mouths of rivers". “Cows only occur on grasslands or plains rivers”.


Again ... the main work here is that you have to encode a lot of rules.


Some properties of resources can be read from the XML. It’s conceivable that some could be invented: for example if it is not clear that resource X is a critical military resource that must be distributed across the map for balance, a run of a map script could invent constraints on the distribution of X for the current map. Some things would only be practical with richer XML for the resources.


This would be a very good way to do things. I dearly wish Firaxis would take more time to clarify, document, and extend their xml definitions for resource placement. SmartMap can't do this and remain mod-indifferent.


I’ve considered trying to program some of this, starting with Mediterranean-style land outlines. If SmartMap did it, I might not try. But I got to Hello World, and can I ask... Can you get a map script to reload without restarting the Civ application? Also it appears that to generate the underlying fractals, the Python code calls CvFractal, which is in the SDK, through a layer CyFractal that is not in the SDK. Is that right? Does anything significant happen in CyFractal, or is all the action in CvFractal?

You can definitely reload(whatever.py) from the console. I do it pretty often with SmartMap work.

I don't know much about the fractal code, I don't use it at all. I would guess that the real fractal work is all in SDK because it is fast.

Is it normal for a temperate climate to be all plains and may be 6-10 grassland squares per continent? I love the smart map, but the temperate climate setting only generates plains.

I notice when I play "Pangaea" option and choose Player Start Coastal.... most of the time the map generates "Salt" lake seas that doesnt connect to the ocean :mad:

this wouldnt be bad as in itself but then my civ starts on one of these "coasts" instead of the ocean coast that I want!

I have played this with map sizes of regular/large/huge with similar results

I also have the "few" lakes options set...

sometimes the "salt lake" can be 3x3 plot sizes... other times they can be over 6x3 sizes.... once even had a 10x3 (approx) size that didnt connect to the ocean :sad:

sometimes the "salt" lake has bonuses...sometimes they do not...


is there any way to fix this? :blush:


or add an option to remove these "salt" lakes from Pangaea?

I love this map script but this really erks me... especially when I like to base my civ on Naval opportunites

Just a suggestion :D

v1.61 v9.1

These maps were all generated on huge, 2 large conts, player start coastal, few peaks no block.
I've included the screenshots in case you wanted to see the minimap.

Gold: One time about 2/3 through the map generation I heard the sound of gold from a goody hut. When the game started I had 47 gold. Apparently, either my warrior or settler was created on the goody hut. If it were my warrior, I'd shudder to think what would have happened if they had been hostile.

Peak: Although I have the option for peaks to not block resources on, I still have copper being blocked by 2 peaks. Also, the option for 20% peaks is repeated. As a side note, I really dislike starting on resources (hidden aluminum in this case).

Bad Start: I asked for a coastal start, not a 2 tile island start! When fixing this, remember to start the warriors and scouts on the same physical landmass as the settler.

No Coast: I didn't take a screenshot of this. My coastal start had 1 coastal tile. Unfortunately, the coastal tile was surrounded by 3 iceberg tiles - not a very good coastline.

Suggestions:
Clump jungles a ton. I don't like seeing 2 jungles surrounded by plains etc, on huge; I'm not sure a jungle that size would survive. Look at the Amazon in the huge Earth18Civs scenario. I also don't see as much of the sea food clumping as in regular maps.
Make an option for player start climate. Any time I see an iceberg, or ice I immediately regenerate. So, selecting something like Player Start Temperate Coastal would be great.

v1.61 v9.1
Peak: Although I have the option for peaks to not block resources on, I still have copper being blocked by 2 peaks. Also, the option for 20% peaks is repeated. As a side note, I really dislike starting on resources (hidden aluminum in this case).

That certainly looks like it should have been caught, I'll have a look at that.


Bad Start: I asked for a coastal start, not a 2 tile island start! When fixing this, remember to start the warriors and scouts on the same physical landmass as the settler.

Not sure how that happened, it should have preferred to place you on the main landmass. I'll try to find out how that could have happened.


Suggestions:
Clump jungles a ton. I don't like seeing 2 jungles surrounded by plains etc, on huge; I'm not sure a jungle that size would survive. Look at the Amazon in the huge Earth18Civs scenario. I also don't see as much of the sea food clumping as in regular maps.
Make an option for player start climate. Any time I see an iceberg, or ice I immediately regenerate. So, selecting something like Player Start Temperate Coastal would be great.

For resource placement, you can set clump happy/healthy, which will clump the sea food resources using the same method that the standard scripts do. You can also use the 'standard' generator, which will place all resources like the standard scripts.

Surt, noticed something odd(I am runnning 9.1). I was trying to get a smaller ocean space(more land to conquer), using Huge, 1 per Player landmass. If I set the standard option to Low Ocean, I get one big odd shaped landmass, instaed of 1 per player with a smaller surrounding ocean. I tried 60% ocean coverage and got similar results. What is the "standard" ocean % on normal? maybe can toy with that percentage to get what I am looking for.

Cheers!

BlazeRedSXT - If I remember right, the standard ocean percentage is between 60 and 70% (like on Earth).

surt - I second the request for player start climate. Tundra starts are hard.

Never mind... brain fart

I've been using this script for months, so I'd thought I'd drop by and give a big :thanx: Every time I think you can't improve it any further there's suddenly a new version with a couple of new features. I especially like the ability to import custom maps!

I also wanted to say I've spent the morning messing around with SmartMap in Warlords, and it seems to be working just fine there as well.

surt - I second the request for player start climate. Tundra starts are hard.

I'll third this. Also, a "no lakes" option would be great.

All in all the script is great, but even after 20 pages of suggestions some things still really bother me. On standard settings, the snaky patterns of desert and jungle broken up by lakes is *really* irritating - yeah, you can get rid of the desert with tropical climates but it's then just as unbalanced. The maps look a bit like Jackson Pollack paintings, if you understand what I mean. More regularity in terrain placement (on all levels) would be nice. Deserts and jungles are fine in their place. Otherwise nice work, good luck

For some time I have tried to XML-script the Terrainbonusfile to get a speciel amount of different resources, but I gave it up. I could not figure out how to controle it.
I have played with the smartmap for months and it is really good and makes the best maps on the marked.
An idea for the next version (if there are to be a new) is simply to make the player select how many tiles with each resource he would like to have. I would e.g. like 18 tiles with oil, making it possible for all players to get oil.
This I can almost figure out in the XML-file. But if it could be a part of the smartmap it would be great. (I wrote almost figure out).
Another great but probably much more demanding feature would be to have the chance to decide how the clumping should be. Again with oil I would like the map to create 18 tiles with oil. 9 single and e.g. 3 clumps with 3 in each. This would make created maps even more earthlike, creating fields of oil like the middeleast and Nigeria.
I know it is probably very difficult to make, but if anybody can it is you Surt
Michael:goodjob:

I've been using smartmap for a while, and have been quite impressed, but I just bought Warlords yesterday, and i'm surprised to find no mention of it here (and sorry if i missed it - i did a thread search and that was a bit quirky).

Anyhow, I have done nothing beyond installing the Warlords expansion, and I've made no effort to uninstall/reinstall Smartmap. At this point, Smartmap does show up on the list of options for maps, when running Warlords, but there are missing options. I ran it a few times, and it did seem to work, but I miss the more detailed options, and I did see one odd thing happened that might have been a bug (a hill showed up with a floodplains feature).

Any chance we can get directions on whether we should or should not expect Smartmap to work under Warlords? And/or any special instructions to make it work?

Anyhow, regardless of the current state of affairs w/r to Warlords, thanks for the excellent work creating Smartmap in the first place!

ok, well I guess I should've tried the obvious before posting (sorry!), but putting SmartMap.py into the Warlords\Public Maps folder does seem to work, all the detailed options are back (hurray!).

Still, it would be good to get confirmation whether we should expect this to work under Warlords (but at least I can say everything looks good so far!).

Still, it would be good to get confirmation whether we should expect this to work under Warlords (but at least I can say everything looks good so far!)

I also wanted to say I've spent th