Ghandi was a likeable man, he was venerable and respected throughout his tribe. One day while strolling along the countryside with the rest of his nomadic people he stumbled across a small child of another tribe. As Ghandi gazed into its adorable, innocent eyes he thought 'Egads what is that thing!?!?' After his people had wiped out the childs tribe Ghandi found prophecies of 7 'great civilizations' as Ghandi beheld the prophecies of these people he thought to himself 'well they'll have to go.' It was then Ghandi decided that the world was only big enough for 1 civ. Namely his!

Version: Vanilla 1.29f
Civ: India
Difficult: Emperor
Size: Standard
Water: 70%
Landmass; Continents
Climate: Cold
Humidity: Wet
Age: 3 Billion Years
Opponents: 7 Random

Victory Conditions: All enabled, but we are trying to win by Conquest.

Decided to take the first start rolled up and... boo-ya! Hot diggity!

http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/4446/indiastart2zm.jpg

Always War Rules (as borrowed from Handy21): You may only trade when you first meet a civilization, and must declare war on the same turn after trading is complete. If you see a new AI unit, you must make contact & declare war that turn. Absolutely no GPT trades allowed. If you see a new face on F4, you are obligated to declare war that turn (after trading). Players must declare war if they are exploring and see AI units, but are not required to actually attack the units they come in contact with. No peace treaties, ever. You may check F4 as often as you like to spy on the AI's tech, resources, luxuries & city count.

Discuss any move that seems exploitive before doing it with the team. Although there are not too many exploits available in AW, we’ll follow the forbidden blatant exploits banned by GOTM and RBCiv such as no "Free Wealth". Other normal game exploits such as "Baiting the AI" with an empty city to create a kill zone are an AW tradition and are allowed. Also, you ARE allowed to initially keep a city, move a settler to the same spot as the city, and then abandon and immediately resettle. This is considered an exploit in RBCiv rules, but is okay in our AW games. In addition if you need to build a city one square deeper into enemy territory just to move borders to steal a resource, go for it. We may keep or raze cities, and can keep slaves. You may whip at will, including captured cities or cities where all citizens are unhappy

SG Rules

5 player roster
24 hour 'got it' 72 hours playing time
10 turns per player in the first turnset 5 after that (depending on number of contacts the 10 turns per player may be extended beyond the first turnset of each player)
If you need a skip or a swap where possible inform the team prior to being 'up'. If you need a 24 extension please mention before your 72 hours are up. We will try and be flexible

Notes for interested players: I have never played AW and don't wont to be the only one in the team with no AW experience :lol: If you have never played an AW game do not be shy about applying. In the event of too many players the first 3 players to apply past the 5 man team limit will be given preference in the event of any dropouts.

The first turnset...

Turn 1 - Move settler 1 tile west, this reveals a cow and a total of 5 nearby bg's as well as the nearby hills and river. Can you say hot-diggity?

http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/369/delhisite2kz.jpg

Turn 2 - Found Delhi --> Warrior,

http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/6673/delhi0hi.jpg

worker moves onto the cow. Research set to Masonry at min

Turn 3 - Worker roads cow

Turn 4 - zzzz

Turn 5 - road finished, masonry can now be finished in less than 40 turns, set research to 90%, irrigate cow.

Turn 6 - Delhi: Warrior --> Warrior, warrior set to explore

Turn 7 - zzzz

Turn 8 - Delhi grows, set lux slider to 20% to prevent riot, move warrior onto mountain and reveal the coast!

http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/7896/mountainier0zz.jpg

Turn 9 - Irrigation finished, move worker onto tile nw of Delhi (bonus grassland).

Turn 10 - Warrior --> Worker (next player feel free to change). Take lux back to 0% and reset science to 90% (masonry in 20), fortify warrior.

here's the world as we know it today

http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/6963/theend3hz.jpg


Roster as it presently stands

Tupaclives
Lboogie13
McLman
Markh
Open

and the save

Looks interesting, will definately lurk, but I have too many right now to join.

Funny I was just listening to some Digital Underground and I see your name. Just a question, but why would you send an explorer out very far? Then fort him, why not send him back to delay the contact?

Well I suppose their is nothing over on that end anyway. Still I would not go far and I would return.

In fact why send the first warrior out at all. Hold him to do MP and you do not need the slider on turn 8. Let the second one go out, if growth will not be faster than the next warrior.

IOW there is no hurry to explore in AW, may as well save some gold.

In a word, inexperience. I misjudged the shields by 1, i was under the assumption that the second warrior would be finished on the turn I grew but in the end it took 2 more turns so that was my bad. As for exploring I wanted to get a feel of the surrounding terrain to give me some idea of nearby coasts, and of the best spots to settle.

So is there any interest from anyone in joining?

lurker comment: Not that there's anything to be done about it now, and you did get a cow after all, but at the opening, I would have moved the settler 1NW to stay on the river and have two BG to work, one of which would be right where the worker was standing.

Just curious, since I'm always interested in improving my opening play. I'd love to see a war-monger Ghandi! :hammer:

yes though unfortunately still no1 seems interested in playing. im just going to abandon this if no1 is interested in actually playing it.

I would play, but Emperor Always War is just too hard for my skill level.

Heck, I'll raise my hand to play this one. I'm playing at Demigod right now, so AWE would be just a bit tougher than that. Be warned that my full-time grad school/part-time work schedule makes my play time somewhat erratic. But I think that this would be an awesome game!

Come on, folks. Who else want to see those war elephants scream? :ar15:

My first SG and AW game. I'm in. Tell me what to do next. The girlfriend is around this weekend so don't get mad if I don't reply right away.

Should be a nice game, but I'm over of my SG limit and I'll lurk this one :scan:

Btw, I found one strange thing:
Turn 1 - Move settler 1 tile west, this reveals a cow and a total of 5 nearby bg's as well as the nearby hills and river.
I don't see any signs of cow on the first screen :mischief:

Btw, I found one strange thing:

I don't see any signs of cow on the first screen :mischief:

I do. I can see just the tip of its nose.

I usually don't take an interest about resources in the fog - I know what type of the game I want: for exapmle demigod with a cow on river and nice land around is like random emperor. You can check Own7 AWDG so see the difference :yeah:

SimpleMonkey and Lboogie13, great to have you on board! We should wait another day or so to see if we can't get two more people. If we can't then we'll just jump straight into it and maybe some more people will be interested in joining then.

Atm I'd be thinking of a roster like

Tupaclives - just played
SimpleMonkey - Up
Lboogie13- on deck
Open
Open

You both live in New York so theres no problems with timezones for you. Still would like to see if we can get another two people.

@smart - gmharriet is right I could see it in the fog and btw this was the first start I rolled up.

Awwright! Let's do it! My first SG! Let's give it until tomorrow (Saturday) evening and I'll dig into the next turnset then. I don't see what the barb setting is. Since research is set to Masonry, can we hope to get elephants in the neigborhood for the ToZ, or should we go for WC next (bows and arrows) and then up the bottom tier for Monarchy?

Alright, I will join if I could get some help with dloading the file I have to dload to play. Whenever I try to write it to my disc it says disc is full.

Conquer_dude you should be able to download the file by just clicking on the attachment at the bottom of the first post, its a .zip file so you will need to use suffitexpander or something similiar to expand it into you're saves folder and then just open civ3 and run it. I've never seen a disc full message before, could you post a screenshot?

@SimpleMonkey - we can't get ToZ because it doesnt exist in vanilla ;) masonry is so we can get walls (vital I think, most of my research fro this game was from the original AW game 'The Zealous Zulus'). Agree on either WC or BW next. Spears and archers will be very important. Another advantage of getting masonry now is that once we have WC and BW (who knows we might even be able to trade for them from our first contact) we will be able to go for maths. I'd like to get those three techs (WC, BW and maths) as soon as we can and then maybe start min research toward Monarchy.

Conquer_dude you should be able to download the file by just clicking on the attachment at the bottom of the first post, its a .zip file so you will need to use suffitexpander or something similiar to expand it into you're saves folder and then just open civ3 and run it. I've never seen a disc full message before, could you post a screenshot?

.
Not tonight I cant post a pic. I saw this message once, and I'm not sure I was doing something right. i don't know what you're talking about "suffitexpander", cause I know hardly nothing about computers. I also need to know how to find the Civ3 save game files in my computer.

Not trying to pile you with questions, I just don't know much.:blush:

@tupaclives -- Gotcha! I haven't played vanilla in so long I forgot that the glorious Ancient Cavs will never be seen in this world. :blush: Agree with you about the tech order. Let's just hope we don't have the Persians next door. :cry: Too bad we also won't be getting the super-elite war elephants.

Will pick up the save and (fingers crossed) have a turnlog Saturday or Sunday.

@conquer_dude -- The file is zipped (i.e. it's been compressed) so you'll need a program like winzip or winrar or something like that to uncompress it. Make sure that when you're clicking on it that you're selecting Save and not Open. See if that helps.

Ii do click save. Okay I'll join, but if I have crappy problems I might have to drop out.

If your disk is full, you will have to delete something to make room. Use explorer to check the properties. It will show you how much space is used and what is left.

WinZip is a free download, but if you do not have room for the save, you won't have room for it either.

Frankly I do not understand why people insist upon zipping files under 500k as it does not save enough to sweat. It just waste my time unzipping it.

As to trades, you first need to see via F10 who is in the game. Then you will know what techs they start with and what you can expect to be able to trade.

Not much sense in researching for trade a tech that is already known by several civs from the getgo. I make a chart of all civs starting techs for the game.

I never felt walls were all that useful in the very early part of the game as they will not send numbers for some time. Masonary is still good as it allows palace building and hence a nice prebuild item.

I like walls when I get to the point that they have town in plain sight or are sending more than 3 units at a time. That does not mean it is a bad thing to have, just I tend to not want to spare the time to build them, until later or I can see a real problem coming.

Alright then who's up?

I'm up. I posted a got it yesterday. Thought I could install Civ3 on my laptop and play this afternoon, but it didn't run. So I'll play my five tonight and post either tonight or tomorrow.

Long live the warmonger Ghandi!

Your playing just five turns?

Wait a sec I've got a problem. I play Conquests not Vanilla. Just realized that, but I bet I can still play it on vanilla.
Edit: Nope, take me out. It would have to be on Conquests for me to play.:sad:

Sounds good guys. How long does everyone have the game, 20 turns?

I'll try my best to kick butt. Please be patient with me though, I'm still learning.

@vmxa - I'v never thought of using F10 like that before, although chances are that with a bit of luck most or all of the first tier techs will have been researched by the time we get into contact with our first civ.

Pity you won't be able to play conquer_dude w'll just start off with 3 players for now, thers no chance you'd be interested in plas heat up we are going ying vmxa or at least lurking in an advisory capacity is there?

@SimpleMonkey - our first round of tunsets are going to be 10 turns each, once things start to heat up we will drop back to 5 turns. but for now play 10 rather than 5.

3500BC – Checking in. Delhi is a land of plenty, with an irrigated cow and our first worker busy building a road. Our two citizens are content, bless their little hearts. Once our borders expand, we’ll have 7 bonus grasslands at our disposal. :banana: We have a 2nd worker due in 4 turns to siphon off the third citizen who’ll enter the glory of our Indian empire in 3 turns. Let’s not forget to tweak the lux slider, since our other warrior won’t be back by then. Figure our next city should be on the hill 3NE, which has a river and a cow. The forest is going to go for a rax chop. Maybe. Science is going at 90% for Masonry in 20. I’m not yet opting to use F10 to see who our opponents/victims in this game are, as that kind of smells like an exploit. Other minds may differ.

Here's how things look.


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/tupac02_3500bc.jpg


Hit enter.

3450BC – Well, look what happens when Delhi’s borders expand!


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/tupac02_3450bc.jpg


The good news is that there are spices in reach. And who could our little pink friend be?


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/tupac02_joan.jpg


Joan may want to be friends, but Gandhi has plenty of dhal and a nice vegetarian curry. We do not want her stinky French cheese. She will not sell her knowledge of Masonry at any price. So we see no reason to part with our far superior knowledge of Burying Bodies the Fancy Way. We declare war and move Andy the warrior back to our glorious empire,

Oh, and the time for Masonry just dropped to 17 turns.

3400BC – The French warrior fortifies and Andy keeps moving back to Delhi.

3350BC Worker finishes road and starts mining, joined by worker bee #2. Masonry is now due in 18 turns, due to the loss of one citizen.

3300BC Production now set to barracks in 9 turns, but that’ll drop once we add the 3rd citizen in 7. Gandhi wonders if this game is going to require much math and micromanaging. The old Gandhi would have been a nice little Gandhi to Joan. He would have tried to be friends with Joan. The old Gandhi would have probably sold her Burying Bodies the Fancy Way at some ridiculous discount price and hoped that she and her friends would let him sit at their table at lunch. That was the old Gandhi. The weak Gandhi. The new Gandhi is going to have Joan’s head on a stick in his front yard. Peaceful little brown man indeed.

And at this suspenseful moment, my game keeps crashing every time I hit enter for 3250BC. Very frustrating. :mad: I've reinstalled and it keeps doing it. I'm handing off the save after only 4 turns to see if it behaves better for someone else. Is it being sticky because I'm playing PTW from Civ Gold? I wouldn't think that it mattered. Anyway, if my turns have to be replayed, they're pretty easy to reconstruct.

Here's the <<SAVE>> (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Tupac02_3300bc.SAV)

Lurker's Comment:Will be lurking. It looks like you guys got into an early war.

I'm not sure if you are able to play using Vanilla using PTW, i'm pretty sure it will load it but will save it as a file that cant be read by vanilla. I think that would account for the game crashing as well, I'm pretty sure I read that in one of the Aggie SG's

Wonderful story telling btw! Are you not able to use vanilla at all? If you are then try the save again usign vanilla and finish off the rest of your turns.

@tupaclives -- Well, I was hoping that it would be possible to play a vanilla game using Civ3 Gold. Kinda dumb, as Gold is just PTW. So here's the call out to more knowledgable players -- is there any way to play a vanilla game using PTW, or is this hopeless?

Oh, and I thought I remembered from your first post that you wanted turnsets to be five. I'd love to play out ten if we could get this version thing fixed.

@conquer_dude -- Yep, early war, war all the time. That's the fun of an Always war game. The only civs you're not at war with are the ones you've already exterminated. :)

tupaclives]
"@vmxa - I'v never thought of using F10 like that before, although chances are that with a bit of luck most or all of the first tier techs will have been researched by the time we get into contact with our first civ."

If it is an exploit it must be about the smallest one in the game. I mean you are going to find out who they are at some point anyway and like you say it will probably only affect two civs.

"Pity you won't be able to play conquer_dude w'll just start off with 3 players for now, thers no chance you'd be interested in plas heat up we are going ying vmxa or at least lurking in an advisory capacity is there?"

I could not really understand the sentence. I can say I have not played vanilla in some time and only remember some of the distinctions.

1) armies much weaker and cannot heal in hostile lands without BattleField. They also heal slower, no full heal in barracks. No extra movement.
2) no SGL, so leaders are able to rush wonders or armies.
3) no lethal bombardment

Those are the big ones

4) no free tech for Philo
5) tech tree is a bit different
6) min research 40, not 50 turns
7) no SoZ, KT or ToA and a couple of other wonders as well as changes to some.
8) no MDI, so no immediate path for sword upgrades
9) no TOW and I think no guerilla
10) no defensive bombarment for units

I am sure I missed many other aspect of the game changes for vanilla and thoe expansion packs.

In vanilla I think that RCP is still a viable method of city placement an camps can be used to great effect up to emperor. The FP is much more useful as well.

@tupaclives -- Well, I was hoping that it would be possible to play a vanilla game using Civ3 Gold. Kinda dumb, as Gold is just PTW. So here's the call out to more knowledgable players -- is there any way to play a vanilla game using PTW, or is this hopeless?



I am not positive about this, but I think that if you load the game in either PTW or C3C, it can be played, but once saved, it will not work correctly in vanilla.

I guess someone like Gramphos would know for sure. In any event, you have to have vanilla to install PTW or C3C, so what is the issue? Oh I guess some could have "lost" their original. I am not sure about complete or gold, but I would expect that you have the ability to start a game under vanilla.

I am not sure what they reason for using vanilla was in the first place as just the interface alone makes it less desirable. Is it that soemone does not have either PTW or C3C?

If they have PTW, but not C3C, then everone could run the save as vanilla using the PTW version. I have seen some wierd things loading vanilla games under C3C. Things like it shows SoZ as being a valid wonder, but it cannot be built.

BTW the save is pointing to a incorrect location. The T is uppercased in the correct address for Tupac02_3300bc.SAV.

Ok for what it is worth, the save could not be loaded by vanilla on my system, it got an error. The error is either due to an incompatibile format or a corrupt file.

You see these all the time when a player loads a game with a version of the patch that is not compat. This is not likely the case in vanilla as the patch was around a long time and I think all would work.

In C33C the break was prior to 1.20 and 1.22. So I would expect that it is due to using PTW. It works fine in C3C and loads right up.

Hum forgot the most important changes in C3 and C3C and that is the civs and their traits. One of the other issues with playing a vanilla save in C3C is that the pedia will reflect Conquest info, not vanilla.

So looking at the traits you will see things like Ag and Seafaring. I think India did not have any traits changed. Which leads to another question, why anyone would want to be religious in any game, let alone AWE?

Ind and Mil as excellent AWE traits, especially in C3, so of course China is a natural for that kind of game.

vmxa -- Thanks for looking at the save. I've fixed the link so it should download correctly. Wish I could get the save to play correctly. :( I can post an earlier save if anyone thinks that it would make a difference. I can also try opening it in C3C, but anyone who's checked in on the Russian Polar Expedition could tell you what can sometimes happen if you play a vanilla save in C3C. :lol:

Oh, and to answer your question about why pick Gandhi instead of the more logical choice for AWE (like the Chinese or the Aztecs) -- it's because it sounds like so much fun! :)

I am not sure what they reason for using vanilla was in the first place as just the interface alone makes it less desirable. Is it that soemone does not have either PTW or C3C?


Yes me and as I started the game thats why it was played as a vanilla game. I'm on a mac and I've asked and asked at all the games stores and as far as any of them know Civ3 Complete is not being shipped for Mac in Australia which is where I live.

Hum forgot the most important changes in C3 and C3C and that is the civs and their traits. One of the other issues with playing a vanilla save in C3C is that the pedia will reflect Conquest info, not vanilla.

So looking at the traits you will see things like Ag and Seafaring. I think India did not have any traits changed. Which leads to another question, why anyone would want to be religious in any game, let alone AWE?

Ind and Mil as excellent AWE traits, especially in C3, so of course China is a natural for that kind of game.

I chose India because I've always wanted to see a violent, bloodthirsty, warmongering Gandhi :lol:

I'll pick the game up tonight and play 10 turns. I'm working late so I'll post it later tonight or tomorrow morning. If something comes up I'll post and let you know exactly when it will be up.

Gandhi and his sword-wielding elephant warriors are on the way! Yippie kay yeah mothers.

Yes me and as I started the game thats why it was played as a vanilla game. I'm on a mac and I've asked and asked at all the games stores and as far as any of them know Civ3 Complete is not being shipped for Mac in Australia which is where I live.

Makes sense, I was very surprised when the announced Complete for the Mac at such a late date. So you will need to have the game started back at your save and played with only C3.

Have you checked with Amazon or one of the worldwide shippers to see if it can be gotten at a reasonable price?

I don't know how things are "down under", but here you can get a PC dirt cheap, especially a used one. Those older ones are great to have for older games only. I keep a Win98 system just for that purpose.

Well, it looks like I'm going to have to step out of this one. :( I'm sorry we had these incompatibility problems. Hope that this game stays alive.

Seems I have room for another one now tupac. When I first saw you post AWE I was a bit intimidated, but after reading through the thread it looks interesting. I'd like to join if you'll have me.

Absolutely McLman your a very welcome addition, that takes the roster up to 3 which is really the minimum we need, and having played/playing with you for 3 SG's now I have a healthy respect for your abilities as a player so definately welcome aboard! Obviously we still want more if possible and I'll advertise for more players in the registry. AWE may be difficult for us without a dedicated AW civ and I have no idea how good the start is it might turn out terrible or it might be excellent we will just have to wait and see. My suggestion would be that now we know the french are nearby would be for a build of worker--> warrior --> warrior --> settler --> Rax. Good luck Lboogie with your turnset.

I'll change the roster in the first post but as it stands now

Tupaclives - just played
Lboogie13 - UP
McLman - On deck
Open
Open

India & AWE ? Interesting. I would like to join.

Good luck Lboogie with your turnset.

I'll change the roster in the first post but as it stands now

Tupaclives - just played
Lboogie13 - UP
McLman - On deck
Open
Open

Ok sorry I couldn't play last night. As I understand I get the game for 72 hours max though. Work went long last night. Today I'm getting out early for an "appointment" that I have. ;) I explained to my boss that an very important friend from India we'll be by my house. I have to meet with him because his life, or that of his civilization, depends on it.

Hope to have the game up in the morning.

India & AWE ? Interesting. I would like to join.

Great we now have 4, 1 more would be nice but we are set to go now. Its also good in that other than McLman I havent played with any of you before so hopefully we'll all be able to learn from each other and improve our individual play. I've been practising AWE on the same map conditions in SP this week using Rome and its not been easy even with legios, lacking an early UU is not necessarily a bad thing however as we will definately be in Monarchy by the time our GA comes around and as we are religious we dont need to worry about anarchy turns which will be good.

No you do not need an ancient UU, you will want to have either iron or horse, better if both.

Horses and Swords can carry you a long way in the AA. You just need lots of them.

I could not open simple's sav file so I'm downloading the original save and will simply reconstruct his turns as he described in his post. Will have my turns up soon.

Ok well I was able to reconstruct simple's moves and them play 10 turns on my own. I hope I gave us a good start. I'm learning so I appreciate any constructive criticism. BTW, let me know how and I'll put screen shots up next go around.

3500-3300 B.C. see simple's post
(except French warrior does not appear until next turn)

3250 B.C. Hello Frenchman. Joan you are hot but you don't want to trade tech so burn in hell. Declare war on French, switch production to warrior. Get 2nd warrior back in Dehli and fortify (already had him heading home)

3200 B.C. - workers done building mine, move them to build road. Frenchie fortifies. Get 3rd warrior, start production back on barracks.


3150 B.C. - waiting....

3100 B.C. - waiting...

3050 B.C. - Road is done, start on mine

3000 B.C. - more lovely waiting, Frenchie D' French still fortified

2950 B.C. - Frenchie gets 2 pals (2 tiles SE) and finally moves off hill towards our city

2900 B.C. - Mine is done. Move workers back into city for safekeeping, 1 more French warrior shows up 2 tiles SE (4 in all)

2850 - 2 French attack, one holds, we kill one and get promoted to veteran, tragically Andy the Warrior dies and he is awarded a purple star Postmouthsly, which is presented to his wife Andrea, in a grand ceremony. :cry: The people are so moved they openly declare their love for Gandhi and offer to expand his palace. Front facade built.

2800 B.C. - barracks are done, start production on warrior, workers start road

2750 B.C. - French attack again with one warrior, we kill 1 and get promotion to veteran, 3 more Frenchies are on the scene though

2710 B.C. - 4 French warriors in view, 1 directly outside the city attacks and we destroy him (For Andy!!!) :mad: , road done, irrigation started, warrior done, start work on a settler to be done in 5 turns

2670 B.C. - French try an all out assault with 3 warriors, we kill 2 warriors and mame the 3rd (one HP left). Sadly we have lost another brave warrior defending the city but our veteran warrior is now elite

2630 B.C. irrigation done, workers move to make more improvements in tiles adjacent to city, settler in 3 turns, out of revenge for Andy veteran warrior leaves city and attacks 1 HP french warrior, we win, I hit enter to take it to the next turn and pass the save along, apparently the people were pretty pissed that we didn't award a purple heart to the second dead warrior like we did for Andy and they start rioting. :sad: Sorry to all for such a crappy ending.

I realize that was like 20 turns but the first like 8 or 10 were just recreating the first players turn. If that was too many though I can take less next time around. I'm new to the succession games so please bear with me. And the save...

One comment:

2710 B.C. - 4 French warriors in view, 1 directly outside the city attacks and we destroy him (For Andy!!!) , road done, irrigation started ...

The Despotism food penalty doesn't allow you to reap any benefits from irrigating grassland tiles unless there's a food bonus on them. The despotism penalty means that any tile that produces 3 or more food suffers a -1 food penalty. For example:

base grassland = 2 food
irrigation = +1 food
despotism penalty (because food is now > 2) = -1 food.

So 2 + 1 - 1 = 2 food after irrigation in despotism.

Consider this a got it. Playing now.

Havent downloaded the save but is it the correct save you have posted? It is still called Tupac02_3500bc... if possible can you update the name of any save to reflect the year of the turn you are handing the save over at. Looks good from what I read although next time we may have already cut the turns back to 5 each depending on how heated things get over the next two players turns.

Also we are lucky in that our UU requires no resources although in vanilla it doesnt have the bonus hp

Lurker's Comment:Ahh! Guess who's beck here? :D You guys need to stop the french from drinking too much wine or who knows what'll happen. :crazyeye:

Lurker's Comment:Ahh! Guess who's beck here? :D You guys need to stop the french from drinking too much wine or who knows what'll happen. :crazyeye:

Let them drink their wines and resistance will be light. Hangovers from wine are terrible. :)
Of course we need some wines for ourselves, so we should send some winespecialists over to them soon.

Like I said this is my first SG game so I'm still learning. Lessons learned so far: 1. No irrigation in despotism unless the tile has a food bonus; 2. change the name of the saved game to reflect the year; 3. NEVER trust the French! (in the game, no offense meant in real life)

I'm fine with only five turns or ten or whatever. I realize I screwed up. I think tupaclives said only five turns the first time we had the file. If need be I'll cut back next time so as to not take time from everyone else.

I think it should be 10 turns per set. 5 in the beginning is nothing and the game may move too slowly. Later on when it becomes more intensive we can change to 5 turns. Even better it would be if the actual player can decide whether he plays 5 or 10 then.

Yes going 10 turns until it bogs down is the way to go. At some point allowing turn sets of 5 to 10 at the players option is going to make them happier.

AW games will get very stressful. A single turn can easily take more than an hour on a std map. I just took more than an hour on th preflight check out.

Pre-turn
Delhi is rioting.
All units have full movement? Oh, it's 2590 enter already hit.
Move MP back, lux slider up to 10%.

Turn 1) 2590 BC
Road BG with one worker, move other to forest.

IT
Nothing

Turn 2) 2550 BC
Riot over - Settler due in 2
Fortify MP
Road forest

IT
Nothing

Turn 3) 2510 BC
zzzzzzzzzzzz

IT
Delhi: Settler -> Warrior (3)

Turn 3) 2470 BC
Move Settler towards Wheat spot (no river crossing movement problems)
Lux slider back to 0

IT
Nothing

Turn 4) 2430 BC
Settler in place

IT
Nothing

Turn 5) 2390 BC
Founded Bombay [Warrior (3)]

IT
Delhi Warrior -> Warrior (2)

Turn 6) 2350 BC
Fortify new warrior. Send elite along river to the West.

IT
Nothing

Turn 7) 2310 BC
Mine irrigated BG.
Exploring West a little ways.

IT
Delhi: Warrior -> Warrior (2)

Turn 8) 2270 BC
move Warrior toward Bombay
Exploring NW along river

IT
Barb warrior appears out of the darkness to the W of Delhi.

Turn 9) 2230 BC
WC due in 2. Up research to 100% now due next turn.
Perch on top of hill, coast to the NW. Looks like we're on a peninsula. Should help our early defense.

IT
Learn WC. Research to Pottery at max without defecit (90%), due in 8.
Delhi Warrior -> Worker (2)
Bombay Warrior -> Rax (20)
Barb moves towards Delhi

Turn 10) 2190 BC
zzzzzzzzzz

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Tupac02_2190bc.jpg

The worker in the South needs to mine the other BG for Bombay. The intent was to wait for a granary build to chop the forest then use that tile to carry irrigation to the plains in the East. Not sure we should wait that long though. We don't have any beakers invested in Pottery so that can be changed pre-flight if the team wants to go a different direction.

The Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Tupac02_2190bc.SAV)

Good stuff McLman, we are doing well enough for now I think our next settler will need to head 3S of Delhi so we can grab the spices. Not sure about pottery though. Obviously we need it eventually and growth= power but I wonder whether we might be better off heading for spears first. OTOH offence is the best defence and archers can do well enough counter-attacking invading french troops atm. Cats are also something we want but atm with so much unroaded jungle all we can do is wait for the french to get within striking range of our cities and they probably will pillage along the way, so archers are probably our best option atm for defence. Would still like to see BW soon. I think after our next worker pops out of Delhi we should swithc it to archers popping a settler to keep the city happy.

I think once we have delhi on archer/settler production we should look to spare a few warriors or archers to take out barb camps for the extra $$$. As for city defence the ideal situation would be 1 spear, 1 warrior and 2 archers + walls for our frontier cities for MP's and the 2 archers for counter-attacking.

Roster

Tupaclives - on deck
Lboogie13
McLman - Just played
Markh - UP
Open

Good to have some arrow-throwing guys. ;)
Regarding city placement maybe it would have been better to place Bombay 1S of the current position, so we would have had a perfect 3 tile spacing 3NE and 3N of Delhi. We will need this in AW.
On research BW and IW should be our next goals. Maybe we should discuss whether it would be better to switch it immediately. I think Pottery we might be able to get in an initial deal when we meet another AI. Math will be important, too.
I do not remember from the first pages. Do we go for the GLib ?

I will take the game for tonight.

A single turn can easily take more than an hour on a std map. I just took more than an hour on th preflight check out.

True. I participated in GR7 AWM against 31 AIs on a superhuge map. In the end turns took forever, but great fun. A single turn took 1.5 to 2 hours.

Not sure about GLib, in SP games i never go for it even on diety as its possible to stay on par with clever trading however here its different as trading is not an option... it might be very useful for us here but its only emp so the AI wont advance that quick and I don't want to shoot our whole load trying to get the Glib, after all the shields are better spent on swords and archers so we can go wack some baddies and capture it anyway. However if the general consensus is to go for it then I'm happy with that too

I would also try without it. We will have much fighting, so maybe we can build it with a leader if we feel we need it.

I agree, I don't doubt it would be useful but I just dont want to sacrifice unit production for it when we can always use a leader or capture it at a later date. Also think once we can get a stack of 15 or so archers, maybe a couple of spears for cover too we should see if we cant wack Joanie

What about research for my set ? Continue pottery or change to BW ? We would just waste one turn if I read the log of McLMan correctly.

We have no beakers invested into pottery
Well there isnt any research into it yet. In a regular game there would be no question it wouldv been pottery first tech of all! However in this situation im not sure, the sooner we have spears and no where iron is the better and atm we dont have enough luxuries or enough commerce to support cities at higher pop without luxs so I would probably go BW --> Maths/Iron --> Pottery --> whichever of maths/iron we didnt research before.

Yes, in a normal game I also would to go for pottery first, but in AW I would go for BW and IW to have the basics for war at the earliest. The sooner we know where the iron is the sooner we can do some real damage. And we should not forget the ponies.

I was thinking about an early archer rush. France has to be close and we could overwhelm them. Just recently I got my 1st BC victory (conquest) as the Arabs with nothing but Archers. Granted it was a tiny arch map where I started on the same landmass as 2 of the 3 opponents, but I DID see the effectiveness of a continuous flow of archers. Set up one Settler pump with a granary then found towns for Rax -> archers + workers as needed to keep pop manageable. I like the BW -> IW route if we're not going to archer rush.

Regarding city placement maybe it would have been better to place Bombay 1S of the current position, so we would have had a perfect 3 tile spacing 3NE and 3N of Delhi. We will need this in AW.

I took a long time considering the placement of Bombay, but I was looking at 1SW of the current location as the other option. In hindsight I think you're right.

I agree with going for Iron. That will be immensely important on AW. markh is right though, don't forget about those horses. With few roads and a lot of forests and/or jungles we could use some horse units.

0) 2190BC : Change research to BW in 11
looks fine : hit enter

IBT : the barb attacks our vet warrior, steals a hit point and promotes him elite

1) 2150BC : our new elite waits for the nurse

in the north we have another nice site with a wheat
our second elite buddy reveals a bad guys camp in the mountains

IBT : a barb appears from the North
Delhi completes worker -> archer

2) 2110BC : our vet warrior defeats that intruder from the North and reveals a goody hut

IBT : nothing

3) 2070BC : our elite warrior kills the Polynesian camp and finds 25 gold

IBT : our people love us and offer another palace expansion

4) 2030BC : nothing, hey Joanie where are you ?

IBT : another barb from the North and another spices there

5) 1990BC : The goody hut in the North gives us Pottery

IBT : our first archer is on duty -> train another one

6) 1950BC : it seems Joanie lost interest in us, no sign of her

IBT : barbs in the North

7) 1910BC : raise lux to 10% to avoid riots in Delhi

IBT : zzzz

8) 1870BC : more scouting in the South and no sign of Joanie

IBT : our brave warrior in the North defeats two barbs and promotes elite
Another archer is on duty in Delhi -> settler

9) 1830BC : Another barb camp in the southern mountains and two more spices

IBT : BW is in -> IW in 23 at 70%

10) 1790BC : not much to do, so I pass it on to the next better player

Research can be changed. No beakers invested, yet. We have two warriors at camps, so we should have some more gold next turn. I would put the next city 2 SE of Delhi and then another one 1NW of the spices into the jungle.

And a picture for the lurkers.

Roster : Tupaclives - up
Lboogie13 - on deck
McLman
Markh - just played
Open

Got it. Will play tonight. Will deliver my pre-flight thoughts before I play

Ok well things are in reasonable shape. Rax in 5 in Bombay, getting Pottery from the goody hut was brilliant as it basicly nullified that debate completely. I dont think though, that we can afford to have our capital as our settler pump as we need it for producing troops. I want a stack of 15 or so archers asap. I'm going to try and get the turns back to an even number so I'll play a shorter turnset. We want those spices online quickly as well.
Goals for this turnset:
- Found 1 preferably 2, new cities
- Get at least 5 vet archers
- Get at least 1 preferably 2 new workers
- Get the spices
- Get a city spot to act as a settler pump
- Survive and thrive

Ok lets go!

I just saw I made a typing mistake. The next city I would put 3SE of Delhi not 2SE. :blush:

Ok after a long process of adding up ;) I finally figured out we are 2 turns off being on a nice, divisible-by-10, number of turns. As I have no intention of only playing 2 turns I will play 12 in this set after which all players will play 5 with the option of an additional 5 so long as that doesnt make them exceed their 72 hours to play their turnset.

IBT - Preflight above though I have to add, why are there two workers roading a BG not on a river that we won't be using for sometime when we need to get water to Bombay asap and need to get spices online as soon as we can? Two turns from being finished and I hate wasting worker turns so i'll let them finish. Hit enter

The french come asking for peace+pottery I tell Joanie just where she can go stick those pots :mad:

Turn 1 - Attack 2 Barb camps and destroy both without injury for a grand total of 50gold, woohoo! :lol: Without any other troops needing movement or cities to manage thats the end of the turn

IBT - Delhi grows

Turn 2 - Well with a settler due next turn regardless and no real wish to up the lux slider and lose that extra 1 gp i switch 1 of delhi's citizens to a taxman to prevent rioting.

IBT - Settler finishes set Delhi to archer.

Turn 3 - Pop a goody hut with northern warrior and get Mysticism. Set workers to start roading toward spices. Southern scouting warrior discovers the French borders.

IBT - zzzzzz

Turn 4 - Set worker near bombay to cut forest so we can irrigate the tile and bring water toward the plains of Delhi.

IBT - Rax finishes in Bombay set to archer --> worker

Turn 5 - Settler finally reaches his destination. Finish scouting the limits of the French borders. Check Joanie's status and we are up Pottery and Ceremonial Burial on her. We also have 63 gold more than her and she only has 1 more city than us. Geez, Joanie is taking her time with things, I wonder what her start was like...?

IBT - A barb warrior appears to the North, a French archer emerges from their borders

Turn 6 - Found Madras 2S, 1 SE of Delhi on the spices, set to Rax. We are now making money again (+1gpt). IW in 15. Realize we have a regular grassland roaded and mined but not a BG on the river...

IBT - Warrior up north defeats a barb warrior losing 1 hp. Delhi: Archer --> Archer (will build settler after it).

Turn 7 - Not much, get ready to wack a barb camp, thats about it

IBT - zzzz

Turn 8 - Wack that barb camp :hammer:, first road through jungle is complete. 6 more turns till we have spices online.

IBT - zzzz

Turn 9 - Nothing much, a couple of moves start roading last jungle tile required for spices.

IBT - zzzzz

Turn 10 - Delhi: Archer --> Settler

IBT - zzzzz

Turn 11 - Bombay: Archer --> Worker
not much else....

IBT - zzzzz

Turn 12 - Zilch really, a couple moves thats bout it.

Post-Flight thoughts

Well a look at my goals is the best way to judge how I've done.

- Found 1 preferably two new cities: Well I founded Madras, Settler in 2 turns so I got the 1 and we can have another city in less than 5 turns.
- Get at least 5 vet archers: Check
- Get at least 1 preferably 2 new workers: Hmm, 1 due next turn, failed here. Could've achieved it by switching Bombay to work the Forest a turn sooner, oh well live and learn. :lol:
- Get the spices - Check when road finishes, couldn't do anything to speed that up.
- Get a city spot to act as settler pump: Didn't happen no places leap to the attention either. I think the best bet would be to found our next to cities 1N and 3 NE of Delhi by the cow, and 2W 1 NW of Delhi on the grassland with the 3 BG's in range so we can set these two cities and Madras and Delhi as archer/archer/settler pumps or archer/worker pumps without needing granaries. Bombay (once Wheat is irrigated), Delhi, or a city 1N and 3NE (once cow is irrigated) could all operate as a Archer/Settler pump if they have a granary.
- Survive and thrive: Well we are managing that so far :D

NOTES FOR NEXT PLAYER

Make sure to reduce the lux slider once Delhi builds a settler (drops to size 3 and shud have spices online before it goes back to size 4). Also we have 5 archers already but do not forgot about building MP for new cities, maybe set Madras to warrior/warrior/worker cycle? at the same time definately make sure we keep building archers, the sooner France is dead the better for us. Also apologies I played 1 more turn than I should have so can I ask you to play no more than 9 turns in the next round just to try and get everything even please?

Good luck!

Roster

Tupaclives - Just played
Lboogie13 - UP
McLman - On deck
Markh
Open

A picture for any illeterate lurkers (and teammates ;))

The glorious Indian Empire of 1475bc

http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/691/picture974oc.jpg

and of course the save

I roaded the tile 2SE of Delhi to get the settler fast to 3SE and to have that new city work improved tiles. Delhi has enough BGs on the river for the time being. It will not grow that fast as we do not have the luxes. Madras has only one good tile to work on. It will take quite long to make that city productive. 3SE of Delhi can share improved tiles with Delhi from the start and it will be easier to make it productive. As France is quite far away and we do not have another enemy it does not really matter here.

IW is near. With all the mountains the chances should be good that our blacksmiths can go to work soon.:hammer:

I'll play 9 turns to even things out. I screwed the turns in the first place - sorry - (someone please acknowledge my apology! :)

My goals are to not screw up the great work my teammates have started. tupaclives - I will follow your suggestions for my turns.

I can't open the save. I tried CAII and then CivIII. Neither will open it. Is it just me?

No it is not you, I could not open it with CA2 either. It says it is a C3 save.

SpeedBeast failed as well, but it did open with Mapstat. I was too lazy to start vanilla to try it.

I screwed the turns in the first place - sorry - (someone please acknowledge my apology!
Consider it acknowledged although there's no need for an apology. Turn #'s get off all the time. Sometimes it just makes more sense to end a turnset early (or play through a couple extra) to coincide with the beginning or end of certain events.

Nobody's done so yet so I thought I'd post a dotmap. We've got a nice RCP-4 placement going with everything that's settled, and the proposed new town next to the cow. These suggestions would keep with the RCP-4.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/1475dotmap.jpg

My apologies I have no idea why but whenever I post a .SAV file it never works but if I .zip it first it does. I'll repost it when i get home.

heres the save

Lboogie13 have you got it?

Sorry. I have it. Original save actually worked for me. Playing right now

1475 - Everything looks great so I hit enter

1450 - get worker in Bombay, set production to Archer, warrior in the hills north kills barb loses 2 HP, move worker to finish clear forest next to Bombay, 10 shields to Bombay, archer in 4

1425 - Delhi gets settler, set production to arch, due in 4, reduce luxury slider, move settler SE of Delhi, attack 2 regular French archers with 2 of our vet archers, we win with only losing 1 HP in all :D, move warrior in the north closer to barb camp

1400 - attack barb camp guarded by 3 units, kill barb warrior but lose 1 HP, roaming French regular archer attacks, vet archer wins but loses 2 HP, founded Bangalore, set production to warrior in 5

1375 - set workers to build mine outside Bombay

1350 - Bombay gets archer, set production to another archer due in 7 turns

1325 - attack barbarian horseman, lose 1 HP and win, Delhi produces archer, another due in 3, cross French border with archer to have a look around

1300 - get IW, discover source of Iron in mountain range south of us, set research to wheel in 9 turns, we see French capital of Paris, doesn't look like they built the Eifell tower yet as they only have one citizen, fear not Parisians we are only friendly Indian tourists who happen to be armed ;)

1275 - Bangalore gets warrior, another due in 5, move 3 archers next to Paris

1250 - I attack Paris with 3 archers, it is defended by 2 units, I lose two archers in the battle but take Paris, Delhi produces another Archer, set production again to archer, due in 3, send a few archers south to protect Paris

I took a gutsy move attacking Paris. I hope it was a good move. If not let me know what I should have done. If that was right should I have kept it or razed the city? Well here's the save for a better player to pick up.

And here's a view of the empire

Great job taking Paris!! Gutsy move going in with only 3 archers, I'd have held off. Since you were unsure holding it isn't a mistake because it's not under any cultural pressure so we won't lose any units in a flip. I think I'd have razed though. We've got to get our own core set up rather than attempt to hold onto cities that are useless to us right now. We can always abondon if it becomes a problem.

I must say I don't agree with the placement of Bangalore. It's closeness to Delhi really jacks the corruption up in the towns that have already been founded. Even though this is always war I think having a solid, well thought out core would still be one of the basics that we should stick with. If you go back and read Chinese Dynasty (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=140699) you can see that it didn't start out AW, but it became that way & the time and care taken to build the core really paid off.

I've got it. I'll give some time for comment before I begin.

Raze was better in an AW. It is so far away it will be a bear to protect and it will add to corruption. You may want to consider abandoning it.

On the other hand, Joan is probably going to focus all her military on regaining Paris. It might be hard to hold, but it will also keep her out of the Indian homeland for a while.

I agree with McLMan that Bangalore should have been shifted, maybe one NE to stay on the river. All in all though, it looks like you've got plenty of room to expand. Keep it up!

Agreed abotu Bangalore, suggest setting it to build a settler straight away and then making sure it doesnt grow past size 2 (set it to no growth) and wen the settler finishes we can abandon it and get our settler as well and move it 1 nw up the river. Its an expensive move but we know how we got into it and we have some idea of how to get out of it so we are fine.
Good move on Paris I would definately have held off and at the moment it is definately not worth anything to us, suggest getting something out of it ie. a couple of troops, workers, a settler maybe, watever we can and then ditch it. We lack the resources to succesfully defend it on the other hand it will give the french something to occupy them besides us, also suggest popping a settler out of delhi very soon (either wait until the archer finishes or do it now) in order to keep it happy.

Great job on taking Paris.:goodjob: I think we should abandon it sooner than later. We will not be able to hold it for long and we should focus on getting this metal.

Agree on Bangalore to build a settler and abandon it.

Sorry about Bangalore. :( I think someone suggested a spot for it but I simply miscounted tiles.

From what I'm hearing I didn't do too bad in taking Paris. I wasn't sure whether to raze or keep. I figured keeping it would keep Joan sending troops to recapture it and if it became a problem we could just abandon it.

Let me just say that I love this community. You guys are 10x better than most gaming websites where other players would simply just make fun of a somewhat noob like me instead of helping. :goodjob: I appreciate the suggestions, hints, constructive criticism. All I ask is to keep it positive.

Pre-turn)
Everything looks pretty good. Switch Bangalore to a Settler (14). Raise research to 80%, wheel in 6 now. +3gpt.
We need to get a 2nd ring town SW of Madras to claim the iron.

Hit Enter

IT
Joans archer comes around to the SW of Paris.

Turn 1) 1225 BC
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f68/McLMan/abandonParis.jpg
Don't like the looks of even attempting to hold Paris, I want the elite defender to heal and join the stack.
There is a mine NW of Bombay that is preventing the irrigation to come through the gap between the hills. Tell workers to destroy the mine and start irrigation.
There are units on automove. :nono:

IT
Nothing

Turn 2) 1200 BC
Bringing stack together.

ITWasn't paying attention, Delhi riots. :blush:
Bombay: Archer -> Archer (7)

Turn 3) 1175 BC
Raise Lux to 10%
Organizing units.

IT
Delhi: Archer -> Settler (3)

Turn 4) 1150 BC
Organizing

IT
A French archer appears from the South
Madras: Rax -> Archer (10)

Turn 5) 1125 BC
Troop movement

IT
French Archer disappears
We learn The Wheel and ...
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f68/McLMan/horseshooked.jpg
...they're instantly hooked up (with the pop-up in perfect position for a nice screenshot to boot)
Set research to Maths at 70% (-2 gpt)

Turn 6) 1100 BC
Elite is healed and on the move to the mountain NE of Paris

IT
Delhi: Settler -> Archer (4)

Turn 7) 1075 BC
Move on Paris next turn

IT
zzzzz

Turn 8) 1050 BC
Move stack next to Paris

IT
Bombay: Archer -> Worker (3)

Turn 9) 1025 BC
Attack Paris.
Vet archer redlines a reg spear but dies. The spear is alone.
Send in elite archer to leader fish and he loses, promoting the spear.
Try a vet archer, again the spear wins.
Send an Elite Warrior and just when I was beginning to doubt that I should have gone ...
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f68/McLMan/joanspain.jpg

IT
Delhi Archer -> Worker (2)

Turn 10) 1000 BC
Moving GL back to Indian territory

There is a Settler in place to claim the Iron next turn. Settler due in Bangalore next turn also. France hasn't put up any fight at all. Just a lone archer that pops out and back once in a while. We have tough land to improve, trying to get out a couple of more workers. No slaves yet.

The Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Tupac02_1000bc.SAV)

Too bad you had to get rid of Paris.:( Btw, nice graphics McLMan.:)

Good turns McLMan.
What do we do with the leader ? Pyramids ?

Somehow this game does not feel like AW. It seems that we are alone with Joanie on this continent.

So, I got it and I will be playing tonight.

Hey McLman great luck getting the leader! With swords not ready for a while i would suggest grabbing the pyramids with him. We may very well be alone with joan whic would make this an absølutely fantastic start for us.

We are a ways away from getting any useful wonders. I think we should make an army and create the Heroic Epic after it's 1st victory. That will make our chances of getting more leaders to rush the good wonders.

Its a possibility but i just feel that a warrior or archer army would be a waste n we r still some ways off swords. Also the pyramids is not a bad little wonder to have

Pyramids wouldn't be bad. Growth never hurts.

My thought would be pyramids as well. They cost too many shields ever to build unless you're playing at Warlord, but they're an awesome wonder to have. Especially in this nice, well-watered part of the world. Does Gandhi have Masonry right now?

Yes, we have masonry, so Pyramids will be the way to go in my opinion. In Vanilla I hardly build armies. In Conquests it would be another story.

Great job on the leader. Yeah Pyramids is prolly the way to go. I'm sorry about that auto worker deal. I hate automate so it could be possible I hit automate by accident. Well let's continue to kick butt.

0) 1000BC : looks good : hit enter

IBT : nothing

1) 975BC : Change some tiles, so we can reduce research towards Math by 1 turn without loss of shields

IBT : Delhi completes worker -> pyramids
Bombay completes worker -> archer

2) 950BC : found Swordy Mountain -> barracks

IBT : Barbs appear from the North

3) 925BC : hurry the pyramids in Delhi
Warrior kills barb

IBT : We complete the pyramids in Delhi -> archer
Bangalore completes settler
Paris is rebuilt

4) 900BC : we kill two French archers (at least some action)

IBT : Madras completes archer -> archer
Persepolis completes The Oracle

5) 875BC : gather some forces

IBT : nothing

6) 850BC : Banaglore is rebuilt -> barracks

IBT : Delhi completes archer -> settler
Bombay completes archer -> settler

7) 825BC : destroy the barb camp in the North and get 25 gold

IBT : Math is in -> HBR in 8

8) 800BC : nothing important, so order another beer
raise lux to prevent riots in Delhi

IBT : Joanie kills Joan's Pain that approached Paris

9) 775BC : Paris pays for killing our brave pyramid constructor, it is autorazed

IBT : Delhi completes settler -> archer

10) 750BC : nothing important, so time to give to the next player

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Tupac02_750bc.SAV

I would put the next city at the marked location. 5 BGs in range and easy to develop.

I put Swordy Mountain on the Iron and it should be connected next turn. Tough tines for Joanie to come.:D

You may want to grab those horses first to upgrade them to War Elephants later. It will be better then building too many archers now.

I have to wonder about the placement of bangalore yet again. Surely 1 NW of its original position would have bern ideal. It is on the river, unlike the new location and we dont have 100 shields to spare for an aqueduct, it has all the benefits of the new spot u suggested, maybe its current site would have some positives over the site i suggested if it gave us access to a resource or the land was developed but it does neither and jungles take 18 turns to clear as we are not inustrious... however it is a giant waste to move it again. I will have to think about what I will do with it in my turns. Good work with regards iron. I'll switch production to swords very soon and we can finish the French.
Consider this a got it.

pre-flight: Micromanage a few things, HBR goes back a turn but we have settler and an archer a turn earlier. After checking the distances from Delhi i opt to keep Banglore as it doesnt mess up the RCP and now agree with markh's idea about the next city, apologies if i came across badly in the previous post, switch delhi to chariots which we can later upgrade. Iron up next turn, hit enter.

IBT - Nothing

Turn 1 - Move a few troops around, heal the archers under our elite warrior, get settler in position. Marshalling archers to push into France. Switch Madras build to Sword.

IBT - French archers show up from what was once Paris, Babylon finishes the Great Lighthouse.

Turn 2 - Marshall troops, attack and kill a barb warrior up north without loss.

IBT - French archer attacks our elite warrior and dies (1-0), redlining our warrior. Barb horse attacks warrior up north and dies.

Turn 3 - Delhi: Chariot --> Spear, Bombay: Settler --> Chariot. Found Calcutta set to rax (20 turns). Delhi has just 1 Mp which is what the spear is for as that way we won't need to run the lux slider till it reaches size 5. With a new city income is up to +2gpt HBR in 3.

IBT - Nothing

Turn 4 - :hammer: another barb camp for 25 gold, lux has to go up 10% to stop delhi rioting.

IBT - Nothing

Turn 5 - Delhi: Spear --> Settler (due in 3, growth in 2) also can now drop lux back to 10% and science back to 40% and still get HBR next turn at +11gpt in the interturn. We have archer stacks in 2 lots of French territory, decide to check on France, they are up writing on us but down maths and have 2 less cities then us. They also have no available contacts so we must be alone with them.

IBT - HBR comes in, set to poly due in 13 at -4gpt but that will change as we are about to founf another city. Teotihuacan finishes the collosus.

Turn 6 - Archers ready to attack lyons and orleans next turn. Found Lahore, poly drops from 13 at -4gpt to 12 at -3gpt. Set to warrior as we need some cheap MP's.

IBT - French archer attacks 1 of our stacks in the forest and dies taking 1 hp off our archer (2-0)

Turn 7 - Madras: Sword --> Worker, raise lux by 10 to prevent riot in Delhi. Taking a leaf out of Lboogie13's book i attack Orleans with just 3 vet archers... and destroy the city withou loss killing 2 spears and an archer, exactly the number of defenders that i had attackers (5-0)! Think 'what the hell, why not?' and attack Lyons with 4 and...

http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/2698/picture1001nk.jpg

Keep the city as France is gassed and we dont need to worry about flips. Suggest getting workers out of it. Take 3 slaves in the attack. France is down to 2 cities. Once again the city had precisely the number of defenders that i had attackers and we suffered no losses yet again (9-0)! Creepy ay, we'll probably get screwed by the RNG soon though. Have found the limits of our continent. We should look to have France wiped out by the end of the next turnset.

IBT - Our ppl want the FP.

Turn 8 - Delhi: Settler --> Settler (due in 4 growth in 2). Locate France's 2 cities, stacks headed that way. Reduce Lux to 0 and science to 90% for Poly in 11.

IBT - Nothing

Turn 9 - Bombay: Horse --> Settler (due in 5 growth in 4) have to raise lux by 10. Attack and kill barb warrior up north without injury.

IBT - plenty of Barb movement.

Turn 10 - Fortify stacks outside French territory to heal, found Karachi --> Rax, Poly down to 8.

A map of our (increasingly) glorious empire.

http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/9363/picture1017cu.jpg

and of course the save

No need to apologize.
I thought long about the placement of Bangalore. With the current location we have a good core now. It will be more powerful in the long run. If we would have had another neighbour I definitely would have not put it there. Normally I keep 3-tile spacing in AW, but here we are alone on a continent and we have no pressure.
Let's get out of despotism asap and then I would suggest writing and mapmaking to find the other AIs.

Great work on France. This turns out being too easy.:lol:

We should connect some spices soon. With the pyramids our cities grow fast, so luxes are always welcome.

Yes it is proving a tad easy, but i think thats down to the quality of the start we got more than anything else. It occurs to me that as we are religious we could even grab republic at some point and switch as we are alone and may have a long time like that depending on how the world is set out. However for the moment lets contniue toward monarchy. We already have spices hooked up, under Madras. Hooking up anymore won't do us much good as we cant trade them.

We already have spices hooked up, under Madras. Hooking up anymore won't do us much good as we cant trade them.

Didn't notice that spices are already hooked up, so ignore my comment. Maybe I should put my glasses on while playing.:crazyeye:

Great job tupaclives. See, three archers can really kick butt against the French. I think this is one of the best start points I have ever seen. And to end up with the weak French as our neighbor, sweet.

I'll pick up at about 7 E.S.T (about two hours from now). Any suggestions besides finishing off the French??

I like the new placement of Bangalore, I think it will really pay off in the long run. Great job tupaclives, the French are on the ropes, bring it home Lboogie13. I think we need to get another 1st ring city SE of the cow & then expand to the Ivory.

Pre-game objectives 1. Destroy France, 2. Imprison Joan in Tower of Delhi

Pre-flight - everything looks great so I hit enter

IBT - barb attacks our roaming warrior\solo man army of the north, lose 1 HP barb dead, Joan comes begging for peace

Joan: Gandhi, please make peace
Gandhi: Sure, no problem, just give me all your cities.
Joan: Go to hell.
Gandhi: No, you first.

530 - Lyons riots, Madras produces worker, Bangalore rax >> temple, Lakore warrior >> rax, Move the archers closer to remaining French cities, start building road to Karachi

510 - Delhi settler >> swords in five, order restored in Lyons, Swordy Mountain rax >> Spearman, attack barb camp with warrior of the north, lose 2 HP but win, upgrade Chariot for 20 pieces, move archers

490 - attack Paris lose one archer, 3 still remaining, city is auto razed. I attack Rheims with three archers and a warrior, lose 1 archer on first attack but take it, 1 archer promoted to elite, city is auto razed, we pilfer 35 in gold and take one slave.

I declare myself King of France:king:

115521

470 - Bombay riots (forgot to bump lux slider up) but the people love Gandhi so much they hire French contractors, who suddenly find themselves out of work, to build a 2nd story to his palace, move lux slider up to 20% to prevent further rioting

IBT - barb warrior attacks our warrior, we win flawless victory

450 - order restored in Bombay produces settler >> Horseman in 6, Madras worker >> spearman, attack barb with horseman, flawless victory, fortify warrior before attack barb camp as he is redline

430 - Delhi gets swords >> temple in 3, switch Madras to temple, no current enemies in sight so I decided to build some improvements, founded Kolhapur

410 - Calcutta rax >> temple in 8, move science slider down as poly in 1 turn, founded Jaipur (hopefully on 2nd ring of RCP if I counted tiles right)


390 - discover poly, start Monarchy, disperse barb camp with horseman lose 1 HP, switch Swordy Mountain to settler as another spearman doesn't seem necessary at this point

370 - Delhi temple >> worker, warrior up north disperses barb camp -1 HP, move lux slider back up to prevent riots

350 - zzzzzz

The save

115525

And proof that we are rulers of the world or at least as much as we have discovered of it:p

115524

Good stuff, France is gone and we are down to 6 opponents. Suggest making settlign the continent priority now, once Monarchy comes up head for map making as fast as we can. Take Delhi off wealth and put it onto settler, we have size 3 cities building temples we do not need, why? Lets get them onto settlers and start colonizing, build workers to keep the happiness under control, remember guys we have a lot of jungle to clear. Dont neglect the military we need lots of troops for this game, keep an eye out for major barbarian uprisings, thats the clue that someone has entered the next age.

Roster
Tupaclives
Lboogie13 - just played
McLman - UP
Markh - on deck

Got it. I agree with you 100% Tupaclives. It's late, will play tomorrow evening.

Pre-Turn:
Changed some builds
Delhi -> Settler (3)
Calcutta -> Settler (3)
Bangalore -> Settler (1)
Jaipur -> Cat (5)
Madras -> Settler (6)
Kolhapur -> Cat (16)
Lux down to 10%
Research up to 70% - Monarchy due in 21
Hit Enter

IT
Bombay: Horseman -> Settler (5)
Bangalore: Settler -> Cat (7)

Turn 1) 330 BC
Moved a settler. Couple of worker moves. Then a bunch of go-to's. :gripe:

IT
Barbs coming from the South
Swordy Mtn. Settler -> Worker (5)

Turn 2) 310 BC
Units off of go-to.
Archer exploring in the West kills a barb & finds a barb camp.

IT
A barb pillages a mine outside of Lyons.
Delhi Settler -> Settler (4)
Calcutta Settler -> Sword (8)
Massive barb uprising reported near Lyons.

Turn 3) 290 BC
Put a taxman to work in Bombay to prevent a riot.
Worker moves
Settler moves
Dispose of pillaging barb.

IT
A barb horse kills the Archer in the West
About 8 barb horses suicide on the Sword outside of Lyons, promoting him to Elite.
Lahore: Rax -> Worker (2)

Turn 4) 270 BC
Nothing much

IT
5 Barb horses approach Lyons from the West
Jaipur: Cat -> Worker (4)

Turn 5) 250 BC
Founded Hyderabad -> Worker (10)

IT
Barb horses attack Lyons, promoting the lone archer defending to Elite before killing him and pillaging 43 gold & our progress towards a Rax
Bombay: Settler -> Settler (6)
Lahore: Worker -> Sword (6)

Turn 6) 230 BC
Founded Bengal -> Rax (40)
Founded Chittagong -> Worker (10)

IT
Barb suicides at Lyons
Delhi: Settler -> Sword (5)
Swordy Mtn.: Worker -> Sword (15)

Turn 7) 210 BC
Get some gold back from the barbs by destroying a camp in the South.

IT
Madras: Settler -> Sword (15)
Bangalore: Cat -> Settler (10)

Turn 8) 190 BC
Worker & Settler moves

IT
Jaipur: Worker -> Cat (7)

Turn 9) 170 BC
Founded Punjab -> Warrior (10)

IT
Calcutta: Sword -> Sword (6)
Karachi: Rax -> Sword (8)

Turn 10) 150 BC
Founded Dacca -> Worker (10)

Our growing Empire
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f68/McLMan/Tupac02/Tupac02_150bc.jpg

Barbs are really raging. It's been a while since I've had this much trouble with them. We got some Settlers out in a hurry. I think we should continue to grow, but balance it out by building up our military more. We're going to need a few more workers if we're going to take care of the jungle and keep up with the expansion. Right now we have 16 cities and 16 workers, it would be nice to get the ratio up to 1.5 to 1.

The Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Tupac02_150bc.SAV)

Good stuff, 5 cities founded and we are looking very solid. Our finances are looking very good as well :goodjob:. For the next player I would say continue settling the land as that will get rid of the barbs, and make sure we get that Ivory hooked up. Also lets see if we cant send a few suicide galley's to find the new world. We'll also need more workers to develop our land. It occurs to me that the odds are the rest of the world are on 1 continent and if so I suggest we start saving cash now for trades as they will almost definately be ahead of us in tech.

Galleys are not yet an option. We do not have mm. Maybe we should have gone writing, mapmaking and then monarchy as monarchy would have been cheaper as soon as we would have got more contacts.

Uh, just noticed. I am up, so I got it for tonight.

I could not get to it yesterday. Sorry.

0) 150BC : looks good : hit enter

IBT : barb approaches empty Dacca
Delhi : Sword -> settler

1) 130BC : destroy a barb camp for 25 gold

IBT: barb ransacked Dacca stealing 17 gold
Bombay : settler -> horseman
Lahore : swordsman -> settler

2) 110BC : moving units only

IBT : barb horse approaches Dacca

3) 90BC : kill the barb horse with a reg warrior

IBT : a barb redlines a horseman
Delhi : settler -> swordsman


4) 70BC : kill a barb in the southeast and reveal a new barb camp
found Indus -> worker

IBT : Jaipur : catapult -> worker
Hyderabad : warrior -> worker

5) 50BC : found Ganges -> worker
Ivory is hooked up -> we can reduce lux to 0%
destroy barb camp for 25 gold

IBT : Kolhapur : catapult -> worker
Calcutta : swordsman -> settler
Chittagong : worker -> catapult

6) 30BC : lose a warrior attacking a barb camp

IBT : Lahore : settler -> horseman
Karachi swordsman -> worker
Athens completes The Hanging Gardens

7) 10BC : moving troops

IBT : Delhi : swordsman -> settler
Bombay : horseman -> settler
Bangalore : settler -> swordsman
Jaipur : worker -> barracks
Teotihuacan completes The Great Wall

8) 10AD : destroy a barb camp for 25 gold
destroy another barb camp for 25 gold
raise lux to prevent riots

IBT : barb suicides against our archer in the southeast
Monarchy is in -> Writing

9) 30AD : The Indian empire becomes a Monarchy
found Pune -> worker

IBT : Swordy Mountain : swordsman -> swordsman
Karachi : worker -> horseman

10) 50AD : found New Delhi -> worker
kill barb camp for 25 gold

And on to the next player. We should start the Forbidden Palace in former France.

The roster

Tupaclives - UP
Lboogie13 - on deck
McLman
Markh - just played

We haven't discussed a long term strategy for the Palace/FP. Are we going to look to build the Palace on another continent when we get there? We won't be able to use the "free Palace jump" since Delhi has the Pyramids and we'd lose them if we abandoned. We'd need to use a GL to rush the Palace, meaning we might need to hold one if it's near the time to move the Palace. If we're looking to move our Palace later, then I think we should build the FP in Indus. If we're not going to move our core later then I think the FP should go farther South.

I've been thinking about numbers here. Lets assume (and this is a fairly safe assumption) that the remaining 6 civs are all on the 1 continent. So if we land there we are going to be fighting 6 civs, are we going to be able to establish a beachhead with cities under that sort of pressure?? Infantry could do it for us but Muskets? I doubt it. Pikes? Don't make me laugh.

I think we are better off establish a second powerhouse core on our continent to the south. Built up like that we should be able to outproduce the AI which will counter our delays due to shipping troops. The initial phase of this game was easy, the future won't be. Lets not forget it will be a LOOONG time before, if we ever do, get any more luxs. So we have 2 for the game effectively, we can't trade for techs, hell even steals are out of the question until we get the Intelligence Agency. We need our island populated and our shores defended asap. I will look to get Map Making and continue to populate our continent. Will play later today, consider this a got it. I'll also look for a suitable FP site, although if anyone doesnt like it its definately up for discussion.

Consider this a 'got it'

I agree with your thoughts tupaclives. I need to keep reminding myself that this is AW. We're probably going to be at a huge tech disadvantage when we get there. We'll have to go with the old "get there the firstest with the mostest guys" strategy. We'll need to find the right balance for the FP between keeping it far enough away to make it most effective (remember this is Vanilla guys) and not having it take too long to build to start taking advantage of it.

A tactic that we might be able to use later on, depending on how advaned WE are is capture the Great Library and get catapulted forward in tech. That also depends on how well they are going, if a few wars break out amongst them then all the better for us.

Pre-flight

Change a few builds to settlers, MP's can wait, and archers are quicker to build and cheaper than swords for that job. Nowhere immediately leaps out at me as a great FP site. Indus could probably still do it as that would give us two first ring cores, however it would waste our second ring, it still looks like our best bet at this stage. Set research up to 80% to get Writing in 4 at -10gpt. Hit enter

IBT - The barb horse n warrior up north attack our vet horse on a mountain promoting him to elite without hurting him.

Turn 1 - Madras: Sword --> Settler (due in 10, growth in 2), Dacca: Worker --> Worker. Venerable Bede produces his 'the largest nations of the world' and we are top. A quick check of F11 reveals we are 1st in Land area and Productivity and 2nd in everything else that matters (manufactured goods, Population and GNP). This all bodes well for us when we get libraries and markets built. Move troops around, attack a barb camp but there is still a barb in it.

IBT - barb galleys sail around

Turn 2 - Calcutta: Settler --> Settler (due in 6 growth in 2 at size 3 atm)
Move guys around. Disperse a barb camp, that covers the next 2 turns deficit in research.

IBT - Oh dear oh dear oh dear... Babylonians found a city on our jungly peninsula to the south-west.

Turn 3 - Delhi: Settler --> Settler, Lahore: Horse --> Horse. Will start sending troops to kick the babs off our land. settler moves. Contact next turn... writing due in 1 so cut back research to 10% and for +35gpt and still due in 1.

IBT - Bab moves into sight, have to contact this turn, luckily for us writing has JUST come in. Will see if we can do any trades first, will also establish embassy to see their capital.

Turn 4 - Research: Writing --> Map Making due in 9 at +1gpt. Establish embassy with babs for 40 gold, babylon is shown below.


They have the Great Lighthouse which I assume accounts for their arrival on our island. I am considering taking that risk and buying contacts as although it means more war we could still be safe from their attacks and it would lower tech price... start by buying TM for 16 gold, babs are tiny... but see borders all around theirs so they are just boxed in. Can't afford a WM. Babs wont trade techs for Monarchy. babs have no luxs and no iron but they are in the MA get to 'almost a deal' for Lit and Currency (two awsome infra techs and this is the time for infra believe me). For Monarchy, World Map and 310gold I could get Map Making and Lit (we need libraries and as its a non-required tech I'd rather trade for it then have to research it). I hope the team will agree with me here so I go ahead and make the trade.
New research set to currency at 40% (18 turns, +15gpt) declare on Babylon.
Found New Bombay, income jumps to +19gpt. Move swords and horses within range of bab city

IBT - Not much

Turn 5 - Dacca: Worker --> Worker, Indus: Worker --> FP (feel free to veto), swords ready to attack now. Horse gets there first and auto-razes uruk taking 33 gold. Attack a barb camp but there are 2 barbs there.

IBT - barbs show up to the south, babylon starts the Great Library... that means that we could grab it with a leader should the opportunity arise. If the chance comes along after future landings I will grab the Great Library with a leader.

Turn 6 - Found New Madras, income jumps to +22gpt. We will have at leas 6 settlers next turn, will start setting cities to libraries. Will keep producing workers, settlers and military though. Up science to 60% for currency in 9 at +2gpt as opposed to -8gpt just 2 turns ago.

IBT - Barb horse attacks ganges but our elite warrior defends.

Turn 7 - Delhi: settler --> settler, Banglore: Settler --> Library, Lahore: horse --> horse.
Kill barb warrior standing on our ivory. Our income drops to -4gpt due to more troops and pop loss from settlers. Will jump again as we found more cities.

IBT - barb galleys move

Turn 8 - Calcutt: Settler --> Library, Swordy Mountain: Settler --> Library, Jaipur: rax --> spear

IBT - Tenotchitlan completes the Great Library, so much for that plan.

Turn 9 - Bombay: Settler --> Library, Madras: Settler --> Library, Dacca: Worker --> Worker, Pune: Worker --> Worker. Move some guys, have settlers headed to Jungly peninsula (will need defenders urgently, i've neglected the military build up i must confess) and to the south where we have defensive military forces.

IBT - zzzz

Turn 10: New Delhi: Worker --> worker. Settler moves. Pop barb camp to cover next 2 and a half turns deficit.

Post- Flight

Well in summary I founded only 2 cities. But we have 9 settlers so more cities won't be a problem for us, I made us 1 new contact and am resonably pleased with the trade (we can assume as the HG were already built taht just about every other civ on their continent must have monarchy), we have their territory map and we should not underestimate the value of that embassy shot. We are strong compared to the Babylonian Republic although we are technologically backwards. Currency due in 6.

For the next playerWe need more troops, we have enough settlers for now but leave delhi on 4-turn settler cycle, swithc everywhere else to workers if we need to keep the pop down, build more troops with emphasis on horses rather than swords for our armies (that movement will help us defend our continent) and on spears or archers for mp duty, get those libraries up and running, get some galleys built see if you can't start on some markets as well. Keep settling our continent and generally kick some ass :p

and the save

Babylon

http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/8623/babylon6vk.jpg

and a map of our empire

http://img157.imageshack.us/img157/5508/map8it.jpg

Great job guys. I hope I can keep up the good work. Consider this a got it.

Pre-flight: My main goal is to start settling the rest of the continent

250 - Hit enter

260 - Settle New Bangalore, move some units

270 - Karachi set to library, attack barb with horseman, kill him and lose 1 HP, founded New Lahore, ivory connected

IBT Babs land bowman right outside Lyons

280 - Move Archer to Lyons to protect, founded New Karachi, more ivory hooked up, founded New Kolhapur

IBT - Bab bowman attacks Lyons, vet archer nobily defends city while only losing 1 HP

290 - disperse barb camp

300 - Discovery currency, start on construction, spice outside Hyderabad hooked up

310- move lux slider up to 20% to prevent rioting, -14 GPT, settling new cities should alleviate deficit, founded New Jaipur and New Hyderabad

320 - zzzzz

330 - Have galley, will start exploring

IBT Barb galley attacks ours, flawless victory on our part

340 - attack barb galley, we win but lose 2 HP, founded New Bengal

350 - found New Chittagong. Not much else going on so I decide to leave most units at full move strength for next player

Post-flight - I founded 6 or 7 new cities and connected 3 lux items so at least I've achieved my own goals (as simple as they were). We still have a few settlers that have yet to move. I figured I would leave them to the next player to decide where to build new cities.

Picture's only of one section of continent. :sad: If someone how I take a picture of the whole empire I would appreciate it.

116028

And for you lurkers, sorry but this turn set was pretty uneventful.

Am I up? I think so. Will play later. Got It.

If someone how I take a picture of the whole empire I would appreciate it.
You can hit the 'z' key to zoom out for a wider view.

Yep you're up

Tupaclives
Lboogie13 - just played
McLman - UP
Markh - On deck

Good work Lboogie, pretty quiet from what I can gather, did the babs try any landings??

Yes, they tried in 280. They seem to be interested in Lyon.

Right... Lboogie13 why did you have the archer defend? We were lucky to win the fight then, we would have been better off attacking as it would be attack 2 v defence 2 as opposed to attack 2 v defence 1.
No harm done but just something we should be considerate of, maximising numbers in our favour.

Also I have to ask why New Lahore and New Hyderbad arnt built on the coast? They are landlocked so they will have tiles on the water later but are unable to build harbors... McLman, see if you can spare the settlers to move them onto the coast ala moving Banglore earlier. A quick check shows theres only the end of the jungly peninsula to settle on and we have 4 settlers so we should be able to manage that.

Good luck McLman

Right... Lboogie13 why did you have the archer defend? We were lucky to win the fight then, we would have been better off attacking as it would be attack 2 v defence 2 as opposed to attack 2 v defence 1.

I had the archer defend as the babs landed only 1 tile outside of Lyons and the archer was the only one who get there in one turn to defend. There were horses nearby but not in one turn. Archer couldn't attack either, used all his move to get him to Lyons. The risk IMHO was manageable.

Inherited Turn) 350 AD
See your point about New Hyderabad & New Lahore Tupaclives. They'll need to go. Fired a couple of entertainers - utilized taxmen to quell potential riots. Stopped the forest chop at NewKarachi. Changed some builds from spears to swords & cats. Units on go-to again. Please stop doing that. Hit Enter

IT
Bab galley runs along middle peninsula.
Lahore: worker -> Sword

Turn 1) 360 AD
Shadow bab galley with horses. Worker Moves

IT
Oh no, it's an invasion. Babs land a Bowman SE of Pune
Calcutta: Lib -> Market
New Lahore: Worker -> Worker

Turn 2) 370 AD
Vet Horse is redlined as he dispatches the Bowman. Next time bring 2 Hammi.

IT
Delhi: Settler -> Market
Karachi: Galley -> Harbor
Jaipur riots: (oops) Hire a taxman
Dacca: Worker -> Lib

Turn 3) 380 AD
Nothing much.

IT
Bombay: Lib -> Sword
Punjab: Rax -> Sword

Turn 4) 390 AD
Worker/Settler moves.

IT
We learn Construction -> CoL
Lahore: Sword -> Sword
New Bombay: Cat -> CAt

Turn 5) 400 AD
Treasury getting low. Set research to 40% will run +13gpt for a while.
Founded New Punjab on tip of middle peninsula.

IT
zzzzzz

Turn 6) 410 AD
More zzzzz

IT
Bangalore: Lib -> Sword
New Madras: Worker -> Harbor

Turn 7) 420 AD
Abandon New Lahore -> Found New Lahore x2 on coast.
Run defecit research again. CoL in 3.

IT
A barbarian galley sinks our galley.
Bombay: Sword -> Sword
Lahore: Sword -> Sword

Turn 8) 430 AD
zzzzzzzz

IT
zzzzzzzzz

Turn 9) 440 AD
Nothing much

IT
We Learn CoL -> Philo
Bengal: Sword -> Sword
Chittagong: Rax -> Sword
Chinese complete Sistene Chapel in Beijing

Turn 10) 450 AD
Abandon New Hyderabad -> Found New Lahore

The Landscape & The Save

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Tupac02_450ad.jpg (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Tupac02_450AD.SAV)

We need to find the right balance of units + building infrastructure in our core. We have a lot of taxmen hired to stop riots right now. We need to take advantage of Monarchy's 3mp without loading up on a bunch of cheap units. MP's are sorely needed in Indus so we can get all the shields we can toward the FP.

@Lboogie13: Ahhh I see, sorry i was under the assumption you had moved the archer into the city and then fortified it, not that he had no more movement.

Good stuff McLman, I agree completely on the need for balance in the core, I however think we are perfectly well off making archers for MP duty, horses if we have enough shields though, as they can be upgraded to Jumbo's and, then later on, cavalry.

Usually in AW you build your infra during your GA but this is as good a time as any for it. When we reach the MA Suggest getting Chivalry and then following the bottom tree to Mil Trad and cavs. I think once we have the basic infra in our core (markets, libraries, granaries... i suppose temples if we want to hold cities on the other continent, and I guess it would be excusable as we have only 2 luxs and are religious, still would rather not use them if we dont have to tho) we need to start thinking about invading Babylon. Babylon is weak compared to us, and although probably expensive in manpower, if we can take and hold Babylon (and thus the great lighthouse) we will be able to ferry troops to the other continent without worries, while our enemies will have to wait for Astronomy. Babylon could probably be tackled with Swords and horses (taking actual babylon) and then dropping off spears, and cats in the 2nd wave. I think we need to make capturing the Great Lighthouse our priority once our initial infra building is done.

I got it.

Will set our shipyards on heavy work to get units over to Hammi. We should use our strength to capture the Lighthouse asap. Sistine is completed on the other continent, so they are quite ahead already.

0) 450AD : looks good, hit enter

IBT : Jaipur : lib -> horseman
New Bangalore : cat -> galley

1) 460AD : nothing much to do

IBT : Punjab : sword -> lib

2) 470AD : worker actions

IBT : Bangalore : sword -> horseman
Lahore sword -> galley

3) 480AD : worker actions

IBT : philo is in and we enter the middle ages -> feud
Delhi : market -> horseman
Madras : lib -> sword
Calcutta : market -> horseman
Hammi starts Sun Tzu

4) 490AD : not much to do

IBT : Bombay : sword -> galley
Hyderabad : archer -> galley

5) 500AD : workers

IBT : Lyons : archer -> galley
Swordy Mountain : lib -> sword
Jaipur : horseman -> duct

6) 510AD : workers

IBT : Babs land an bowman at New Bombay
Delhi : horseman -> lib
Calcutta : horseman -> sword
Lahore : galley -> harbor
Karachi : harbor -> galley
Chittagong : sword -> galley
Upps, New jaipur is rioting

7) 520AD : lose a horse against the bowman
kill it with another horse

IBT : Hammi starts Copernicus

8) 530AD : not much to do

IBT : Delhi hits desease
Bangalore : horseman -> duct

9) 540AD : workers

IBT : Bombay : galley -> duct
Madras : sword -> sword
Calcutta : sword -> sword
Bengal : sword -> galley

10) 550AD : workers

Nothing much to report. I put troops in the cities for MP. There were many units outside of the cities and specialists working, so beware when you move units out of cities.

The roster

Tupaclives - UP
Lboogie13 - on deck
McLman
Markh - just played

Copernicus?? Ouch...

I think our goal has to be to locate and capture the great library or else we are going to fall into a possibly, inescapable tech hole.

Got it

Pre-flight check

Ouch our economy is hurty
:cry:

we are paying 32gpt unit costs and yet still need a LOT more troops for MP duty. MM for a few more gpt. Dacca is building a library... why???? It generates jus 5 commerce per turn and loses 2 of that to corruption. Don't really want to change it as it would waste 45 shields for a sword or horse :cry: switch to harbor, due in 2. Babylon is well advanced on us so a GL rush looks to be a good idea... eventually, its still out of the question now... I take a look at our unit list and we have just 3 galleys. Veto galley builds on eastern coast however as they will take upwards of 10 turns to reach the correct side... the irony is that this is not a wonderful AW start... but it would be absolutely perfect for a regular game. Oh well...

Goals for this turnest:

Build more galleys
Build more troops
Get ready to invade Babylon
Get us a bit closer to Jumbos

ok lets go

IBT - Persopolis completes Sun Tzu's, deficit jumps to -19gpt but Feudalism drops from 6 turns to 4

Turn 1 - Move troops around looking for galleys, try and set some small cities to build cheap mp's
What to do with the settler on the jungly peninsula? Its costing us gpt and with nowhere to settle for a whil i'm tempted to merge him. Our attack on Babylon is going to require capturing actual Babylon on the first attack and then founding cities in the space created by burning their other cities. Not sure if he's needed now... keep him anyway.

IBT - China rocks up, finally some mroe contacts, that should drop tech prices a bit. The bad news, it means all civs have Astronomy probably. Means we need Lighthouse to reach them, they can reach us regardless.

Turn 2 - Call up China, I can't even afford a territory map, let alone techs.
This is just painful. Declare on them. Fedualism has dropped by two turns again thanks to China arriving.

IBT - Babs come asking for peace, they would give 159 gold, world map and monotheism for peace. Don't even consider it and tell him to get stuffed.

Turn 3 - Dacca: harbor --> duct. We get a low treasury warning.
Feudalism due in 1 but if i cut back science at all (which, incidently would take us from -19gpt to +12gpt) then we dont get Feudalism next turn.
The amazing thing is a check of F8 shows we are top in score, and leading in most of the demographics. That means 1 thing, we aren't exerting our dominance properly. However I look around and I'm struggling to see where we can fix things, MM for a bit of gold here and there but really there isn't much more we can do... load some guys on galleys, we have 2 boats loaded now. Find a redlined galley fortified in open waters (where it cant heal...) with a vet horse and... a vet warrior??? We have limited resources, we can't afford to waste anything,so send him to the nearest harbour city to heal and ditch the warrior for MP duty.

IBT - barb galley attacks ours and loses but yellowlines us. Feudalism comes in, set to Monotheism due in 18 turns at +12gpt, cant get it any faster as we have 2gold and were running at -19gpt.

Turn 4 - Delhi: Library --> Sword
zzzz

IBT - Get palace expansion

Turn 5 - zzzz

IBT - Ditto

Turn 6 - Troops waiting for galleys, worker moves.

IBT - zzz

Turn 7 - Dacca: Courthosue --> Galley

IBT - barb galley attacks us and dies pitifully

Turn 8 - Calcutta: Sword --> Sword, Chittagon: Galley --> Galley, New Kollhapur: Archer --> Archer (reg, for mp duty)

IBT - zzz

Turn 9 -zzzz

IBT - once again... zzz

Turn 10 - Madras: Sword --> Sword, Lahore: Galley --> galley, Swordy Mountain: Worker --> Sword, Hyderbad: galley --> galley, bengal: galley --> galley, New Lahore x2: archer --> archer (reg, mp duty)


Post turn thoughts:

Well we have a stronger military, but we cant afford it.
We have more galleys but they will take some time to reach the required destination, in the meantime they drain gpt.
Our economy is broken. Very broken, we are poor as a church mouse whos just had an enormous bill the day after his wife ran away with another mouse, taking all the cheese.
I leave it to Lboogie to maintain the military and naval drive, this is looking like by the time we can reach the mainland it will be time for Great Library or bust. We need proper war with Babylon fast regardless. Both china and babylon have astronomy so we should be wary of landings. We have a strong military compared to both, but our economy needs work, and I dont mean infra. I mean we just plain need more commerce. Also I noticed there were a fair few places building libraries when they generated less than 10 commerce (and usually lost most of that to corruption). Libraries cost 1gpt and with the low commerce of the cities they werent going ot increase the science outpt of those cities. We need to avoid that, culture is not something we need right now, we need commerce, harbors where possible. Taxmen once cities run out of tiles that will make a difference (an unimproved hill is pointles, no extra commerce and unless it will take the city over a threshold (10 useable spt, 15 etc.) then its not worth using, better off with taxmen in that sort of circumstance. Improve the hills around indus, we need it to pull as many shields as possible to get the FP finished as quick as we can.

Good luck Lboogie13

It will be a nice comeback winning this. For an AW-game it was too bad we only had France on our continent and we finished them much too early :lol: . We desperately miss the second leader for the FP. For now I would even consider to disband many units. Leave 2 or 3 units per city for MP. We do not need to fear the AI. It is too silly in overseas operations.

Great work guys. Consider this a got it. Should post sometime this weekend. I'm not sure about disbanding units. Any thoughts???

We have enough for mp duty at present, we have enough to attack Babylon but not enough galleys. We need the war with Babylon, we need the Great Lighthouse, and ultimately the Great Library. Can we afford to still attack if we disband troops?

Yes, I agree, but my thought was to disband troops to speed up research. I did not check, but at the time of our landing the babs might have muskets in their cities. We are not far away from jumbos and with our current troops I do not know whether we will be able to do much. We will need big numbers of troops, which will ruin our economy/research.

Very true, without lots of cats we couldnt scratch the surface. You are indeed right, an invasion is out of the question at this point.

Pre-flight - Since an invasion seems out of the question for now I tried to focus on building up our economy

650 A.D. hit enter

660 - Start building commerce in a few cities (i.e. harbor, makretplaces), move workers to begain improving hills around Indus to get more shields toward FP, start moving available galleys south towards the front lines

IBT - Bab galley appears

670 - Attack reg bab galley with reg galley, we lose, babs drop only 1 HP

IBT - Chinese galley appears

680 - Land swordsman outside Elipi (babs) to explore bab territory

IBT - babs send several bows to attack swordsman, he kills two and gets promoted all the way to elite, alas he gets killed on the third round. No musket units seen

690 - zzzzz

IBT - Chinese galley attacks our regular galley, Chinese galley redlined but wins, luckily no units on our galley

700 - zzzz

710 - Palace expansion. :king: Chinese building JS Bach, worker actions

720 - Dacca riots, Chinese complete Copernicus, consider rasing lux slider but that would put us at -22 GPT

730 - Babs are building JS Bach, complete monotheism, start Chivalry, due in 12, low treasury warning so I lower research slider down once for one turn as we are running -9 GPT and have 11 gold

740 - zzzz, Chinese building Leonardo's workshop

750 - zzzz

Our economy is still shot. Our currency is so worthless, instead of using Indian rupees, our people are buying Iraqi rupees. Gandhi may have been a great leader, but Alan Greenspan he ain't. As of 750 A.D. we are running a
-12 GPT deficit. :(

Roster update :

Tupaclives
Lboogie13 - just played
McLman - UP
Markh - On deck

Pre-turn
MM a bit but don't accomplish much.

IT
Delhi: Cat -> Cat
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/5Lowtreasury.jpg
I think this is going to be the theme.

Turn 1) 760 AD
Hire taxmen in Indus and New Bangalore to prevent disorder. New Bangalore is going to be on a starvation cycle. Better than using the lux slider at this point.
Just moving galleys. Find a Bab galley SW of New Karachi.
We seem to have a decent number of galleys. We'll need to get some cats in them. Research down to 30% to avoid going negative. Switch 4 taxmen to scientists and knock a turn off of Jumbos (now 13) 8 gold in treasury +1 gpt.

IT
Babylonians are building Leonardos

Turn 2) 770 AD
Take a crack at the Bab galley and lose a reg galley.
Worker/galley moves

IT
Redlined Bab galley retreats
Delhi: Cat -> Cat
Calcutta: Horse -> Cat

Turn 3) 780 AD
zzzzzz

IT
Bangalore: Market -> Pike (want a couple of solid defenders to add to stack to try to take the brunt of the Bab counter-attack)

Turn 4) 790 AD
Nothing much.

IT
Delhi: Cat -> Cat
Calcutta: Cat -> Cat
Hyderabad: Galley -> Courthouse

Turn 5) 800 AD
Moving galleys and troops.

IT
Bombay: Market -> Courthouse
Lyons: Galley -> Cat
Karachi: Courthouse -> Cat
New Delhi: Courthouse -> Cat

Turn 6) 810 AD
Just settled in for another turn of moving troops and what do we have here?
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/5meetalex.jpg
What to do? Re-read 1st post and there's no choice.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/5Alextradetable.jpg
Try a little extortion to no avail. They won't trade anything.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/5declarealex.jpg

IT
Delhi: Cat -> Cat
Punjab: Harbor -> Cat
Bangalore: Pike -> Pike
Calcutta: Cat -> Pike
New Bangalore: Galley -> Galley
Greek Galley retreats
Kolhapur: Pike -> Cat

Turn 7) 820 AD
Changing scientists back to taxmen doesn't delay jumbos. 6 turns now. -1 gpt.

IT
A galley appears at our middle peninsula from Bab territory. Looks to be a new color but wrong angle to tell right now.

Turn 8) 830 AD
Check on the galley and I'm afraid so.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/5meetpersia.jpg
I put the peace treaty on the table and demand a territory map. Surprisingly he accepts it.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/5persiaminimap.jpg
Well at least I got something out of them. Declare War!!!!

IT
Delhi: Cat -> Cat
Karachi: Cat -> Cat
A Bab Caravel heads around tip of middle peninsula.

Turn 9) 840 AD
Nothing Much

IT
Madras: Market -> CH
Bangalore: Pike -> Cat
Calcutta: Pike -> Cat
Lahore: Market -> CH
Swordy Mtn: Sword -> Sword!
Bengal: Galley -> Galley
New Lahore x2: Archer -> Cat

Turn 10) 850 AD
Some MM

Some towns are starving. New archer is on his way to New Karachi to MP. Need to pay particular attention to Indus. It will starve in 10 turns. Can switch a citizen off of the mined hill just before that happens. We need to get a couple of pikes and some cats in the galleys. They're all in New Chittagong right now. Once we land our economy will get better. Either they'll do some disbanding for us, or we'll pick up extra unit support.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/5relations.jpg
You don't see this every day.

*****The Save***** (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Tupac02_850AD.SAV)

Just read my post and realized that I neglected to build any Settlers. Don't know what I was thinking. I had cats on the brain too much I guess. The next player will need to switch a couple of builds over.

I got it. I will get to it tonight.

Sounds like you didn't do too badly McLman, I'm thinking about our invasion atm and it occurs to me that we will badly need to use a leader to rush a palace, probably at the Great Lighthouse city to prevent it flipping, and then try and establish a defensive foothold on that continent. So in retrospect, Indus was indeed the best city for the FP i chose it because there were no other centralized cities outside of hte main core but it could become doubly important later on. Good luck Markh

Just so you know, an FP will not prevent a flip. Only the Palace can do that. Of course it will make unlikely.

It's true. I've rushed an FP in an enemy capital when I wanted to keep its wonders, and had it flip within five turns. :(

We're going to rush the Palace in the Wonder City. We're within 20 turns of completing the FP in the City of Indus in our mainland.

McLMan -- Thanks for clearing that up. A re-read of the relevant post showed we were off on a tangent. :blush:

0) 850AD : looks good, hit enter

IBT : Babs lands a horseman at New Jaipur
Delhi : catapult -> settler
Punjab : catapult -> pike
Chittagong : courthouse -> sword
New Delhi : catapult -> settler

1) 860AD : the bab horse retreats upon our attack
nothing much elase to do

IBT : Babs land two Bowmen at New Jaipur
Chivalry is in -> engineering
Bangalore : catapult -> war elephant
Calcutta : catapult -> war elephant
Karachi : catapult -> war elephant
Jaipur : marketplace -> war elephant

2) 870AD : kill the retreated horseman promoting our swordsman elite
kill 1st bowman with a horseman
lose a horseman on the second bowman
kill second bowman with a horseman

IBT : Bombay : war elephant -> settler

3) 880AD : moving troops

IBT : Delhi : settler -> war elephant

4) 890AD : moving troops

IBT : nothing

5) 900AD : moving troops

IBT : Bombay : settler -> war elephant
Chittagong : swordsman -> lib
New Delhi : settler -> galley
four galleys sink on the way to Babylon

6) 910AD : moving troops

IBT : China requests an audience, sorry not this game
Babylon, too.
Babs land a bowman at New Jaipur
Punjab : pike -> duct
a galley sinks on the way to Babylon

7) 920AD : Hammi the coward seems to be impressed with those big grey animals in range and disbands his landed bowman
We land 6 cats
1 pike
7 swords
2 horsemen at Ellipi
Let's see what Hammi can throw at us

IBT : Ha, Hammi is too afraid and leaves our stack alone
Kolhapur : catapult -> swordsman
Bangalore : war elephant -> war elephant
Lahore : war elephant -> duct
Swordy Mountain : swordsman -> swordsman
Bengal : galley -> galley
Dacca : duct -> barracks

8) 930AD : cats reveal only 3 units in Ellipi
Horseman kills bowman at Ellipi and promotes elite
elite horseman suicides at spear in Ellipi
swordsman kills bowman at Ellipi
swordsman kills longbow at Ellipi
swordsman kills spear at Ellipi and we take the city

IBT : The resistance in Ellipi is quelled
Engineering drops from 10 to 7 turns
Madras : war elephant -> war elephant
Calcutta : war elephant -> war elephant

9) 940AD : we get to know the aztecs and declare war
move units in position to attack Ur next turn

IBT : Delhi : war elephant -> war elephant
Jaipur : war elephant -> war elephant
Pune : catapult -> galley
New Lahore : galley -> galley

7 galleys sink on the way back to our coast

10) 950AD : swordsman kills bowman at Ur
swordsman loses against bowman at Ur
swordsman loses against bowman at Ur
swordsman loses against bowman at Ur
finally the fourth swordsman kills the bowman and takes Ur

I never lost so many galleys in one turn in treacherous waters as in this game. Sorry guys.

Our economy is a little better. We research at 40%, but we seem to be very far behind. Babs do not have iron nor salpeter, so they are an easy target, but the Aztecs and Persians will be no fun. I fear that we cannot hold for long there without proper reinforcements. There is a Persian galley in the north which two elephants are chasing.

The roster and save

Tupaclives - UP
Lboogie13 - on deck
McLman
Markh - just played

Sounds like you've got us a strong start on Babylon Markh, I'll make sure I don't screw it up. Babylon, and the Great Lighthouse, you're next :ar15:

Watch out world, Gandhi is on the warpath! :aargh:

Where was the Great Library built?:devil:

Sounds like you've got us a strong start on Babylon Markh, I'll make sure I don't screw it up. Babylon, and the Great Lighthouse, you're next :ar15:


I fear it will not be sufficient what we have there and we have no safe path to Babylon, so we will lose troops on the way there. As mentioned I lost 7 galleys in treacherous waters on the way back home, so our fleet got very small. We desperately need the Great Lighthouse to be able to ship troops there safely. The Perisans and Aztecs will appear soon at Ur and they will have better units than Hammi. For the next shipment of troops I would go directly for the city with the Great Lighthouse as Hammi has spears and Bowmen only. I should have done that as the first target, but I did not expect him to be that cowardish. I think this was a major mistake from my side. Sorry, guys.

Great Library is in Tenotchitlan. Will be difficult to get and although I feel it will be necessary to win it is not a short term goal.

Pre-flight Check

Everything looks alrite, do some MM but all that does is add beakers, can't get our deficit any better.

Short term goals

Babylon! Get that city, we get the Great Lighthouse and then we can actually get troops to the new continent.
Priority: Huge
Get more troops to new continent. We need defenders and more offensive troops to continue our assault. Switch all unit builds to WE back home as the defend like pikes (our best defensive unit) and have the highest attack of anything we can build.
Priority: Important, but will depend on getting Babylon.

Mid-term goals

Locate Tenotchitlan. This will be difficult as we can't buy maps, it may require some suicide units to find.
Priority: Secondary
Capture Great Library: This will also be difficult and is dependant on first finding Tenotchitlan
Priority: Huge, but dependant on all previous goals to be accomplished first.

Long term goals:
Palace on the new continent (this could be achieved quickly depending on luck with elites).
Forge an empire on the new continent (will take a long time).

Lets go!

IBT - As I watch enemy ships move around I see Chinese borders to our south, looks like there was an island there. Doesnt matter as we couldnt efficively defend it and it would offer us nothing anyway. No Babylonian troops or ships seen. Thats good.

Turn 1 - Indus: FORBIDDEN PALACE!!!!! --> War elephant. Income jumps to +13gpt, research is unaffected. Also notice Ashur is now Aztec... The aztecs are at war with babylon. Can we get to Babylon before the Aztecs (who no doubt have knights). And if so can we hold it? This will be difficult but I'm feeling brave, courageous, lucky and stupid. Gamble practically our whole army on the new continent on getting Babylon.

IBT - Ellipi flips to the Aztecs, dw though, I moved EVERY unit out of hte city the previous turn and so we don't even lose the bab workers. We do lose 2 turns of production from it though. Fortunately our galley made it!

Turn 2 - Unload WE and pike next to Ellipi, our main stack moves within 2 turns of a an attack on Babylon. Push science up 10%, losing 34gpt but get engineering next turn. Loading dudes into galleys... decide to hold off on sending just yet as Lighthouse can be ours in 2, willing to risk the strike for the chance to have unfetted access to reinforcements.

IBT - Persian Knight attacks our stack but our pike retreats him (1-0) Galley's don't sink :D thats two turns in a row that risk has paid off! Engineering comes in set to Invention in 8 turns at +6gpt.

Turn 3 - Bombay: War Elephant--> War Elephant, New Kollhapur: Harbor--> War Elephant. Resistance ends in Ur. Attack Elippi with War Elephant and kill the defending spear without being scratched and retake the city. (2-0)
The victory nets us a GOLDEN AGE

Invention in 5 at +73gpt or in 4 at +21gpt, we need techs so I opt for the 2nd 1. Send War elephant to Ur and fortify pike in Elippi. Our stack can now attack Babylon next turn, then we will have plenty reinforcements (fingers crossed). We are still top in score out of civs we know, we ain't doin' that bad ladz! Feeling confident. Keep loading guys into galleys, worker moves. Things will happen next turn. Next turn, we get the Great Lighthouse, I just know it!

IBT - Aztec Knight moves next to Babylon... we will get it first! Holding off the Aztecs will then be the tricky part.

Turn 4 - Banglore: War Elephant --> War Elephant, Calcutta: War Elephant --> War Elephant. Bengal: Galley --> Galley, Pune; galley --> Galley, New Delhi: Galley --> galley, New Lahore 2x: Cat --> Cat, New Karachi: harbor --> Courthouse. At babylon, (akkad has been captured this is the last bab city.
First sword wins (3/4 & 3-0)
Second sword wins (2/4 & 4-0)
Reveals a redlined spear.
Third sword wins (3/4 & 5-0)

And we take Babylon!!!!

http://img76.imageshack.us/img76/244/wehavbab1zd.jpg

http://img76.imageshack.us/img76/206/deadbab1xw.jpg

We are now down to 4 opponents, and them aztecs are looking dangerous. However we can now get reinforcements where they are needed. Took a gamble on not using cats and it worked, so use the cats to weakaen that knight next to Babylon. Start moving galleys toward the new continent, we have 5 War Elephants, 1 pike, and 3 cats already loaded and headed to support the new continent.

Babylon set to walls.

IBT - Bucketloads of Aztecs rock up round Babylon... sword attacks and retreats WE, another sword attacks and loses to our 3/4 sword and promotes him. (6-0) an Aztec knight finishes our WE (6-1).

Turn 5 - Lots of WE finish, several places finish harbors, all are set to galleys. One of the best catapult barrages I've done, EVERY shot takes a hp off the aztecs around Babylon, however if we survive this interturn... I know its an expense that may prove futile but I rush build walls there (72 gold). Land all our reinforcements right next to Babylon (1 movement point short of getting them IN babylon, it will have to last without them for 1 turn). Still the aztec attackers look very strong, move our sword into Babylon and fortify, fortify all the defendign swords and the pike. Need to bump off some more Aztec troops so our elite sword attacks a 3hp knight and wins (7-1) without taking damage, no GL though. Take a breath and prepare to lose guys. Hit enter.

IBT - A knight yellowlined by cats attacks our elite sword (who is in the open) and takes 1 hit and retreats withotu causing damage! A sword then attacks Babylon and loses! (8-1) the other swords, who had only lost 1hp each then run away! BIG mistake Aztecs! A chinese Pike/sword pair shows up in the cultural land of Babylon. A 3/4 aztec sword captures our 2 bab workers :sad:

Turn 6 - Babylon: Walls --> settler, Lyons: barracks --> War elephant, Jaipur and Madras: War Elephant --> War Elephant, Chittagong: Library --> market. New Jaipur: Harbor --> galley. Invention in 1, drop science enought to get +100gpt and still have it in 1. Catapults at babylon redline everything. Elite sword attacks pike/sword pair and wins without taking damage, no leader (8-1). War Elephants used to take out non-stacked units so that they can retreat to safety (11-1). babylon looking safe and with walls just about unconquerable. How to move on from their now? Elite horse in Ur kills 3/4 aztec sword (12-1) without taking damage, but no leader.

IBT - Persian horse attacks Babylon but loses to pike (3/4 & 13-1). A big stack of immortals lands next to babylon, chinese horse shows up as well.

Turn 7 - Invention comes in, set to gunpowder in 4 turns at +5gpt. Lahore: duct --> war elephant (Note: leo's is still up for grabs so we are now nearing the AI bloc in terms of tech, Great Library may not be as important as I believed, don't get too hopeful though). Dacca: rax --> war elephant, Pune: galley --> galley, Bombay, new calcutta: war elephant --> war elephant. Troop builds drop our gpt to exactly 0 but I MM to get 1gpt (yes i am a miser :p). The vaunted catapults barely scratch the immortal stack. Most are reg though with only 1 vet so thats good. Land reinforcements. Still heaps more waiting, haven't sent any settlers yet as we've needed troops there. After droping some WE at elippi I send the galley into aztec territory. Its goal? To find tenotchitlan. We have our two short term goals done. Mid term goals I will now look at, finding the Great Library will be the next goal i intend to tick off. Our elite sword attacks the top immortal on the stack (a 3/4 vet on a hill) and wins but is redlined (14-1). Use WE to kill the horses (16-1). Finish the immortal stack, use a WE to finish it so it can retreat back to babylon (19-1).

Wow I haven't ever had a kill ratio this good, let alone when I was worried babylon was a goner just a few turns ago!.

IBT - A horse attacks babylon and predictably dies (20-1) a bunch of Aztec and chinese swords rock up, two elites the rest regs. Troops coming slowly now, looking strong there. Further reinforcements will be used to advance our position as atm we need the troops in Babylon to clear out what arrives each turn.

Turn 8 - Calcutta, Swordy Mountain, Ganges and Banglore: War Elephant --> War Elephant. Pune and New Delhi: galley --> galley, New Lahore x2: cat --> cat. We are runnign a -3gpt deficit after troop builds. Clear out the guys around Babylon. (26-1). Worker moves, move some more WE into babylon. We are developing quite a force their. A few more boatloads and we can go on the offensive, also have 2 settlers on the way.

IBT - A chinese rider attacks Babylon and dies but redlines our only elite WE. A stack of 6 swords and 2 muskets land next to Babylon (from the chinese).

Turn 9 - Delhi and New Kollhapur: WE --> WE... a galley sinks... wait a minute? Oh bugger! The only ocean tile it could be on and i fat fingered a move onto it! :mad: We lose 2 WE because of it. Sorry fellas. Wipe out the chinese stack next to Babylon, and a loose sword nearby without losses. (35-1). Worker moves, move troops toward the loading point, galley moves. We are solid. I wouldn't say we are ready to go on the offensive yet but we are very strong defencively. Nothing else for me to do but hit enter, noone in sight.

IBT - I had misjudged the moves for the WE last turn and 1 was left stranded on a hill so I covered him with a pike and fortified. Attacked by, an elite persian knight, an elite aztec knight and a vet aztec knight and redline all 3 (causing them to retreat) and the pike is still 3/4. Several new enemies arrive at babylon.

Turn 10 - Punjab: duct --> market, Hyderbad & Indus: Market --> library Jaipur: WE --> WE, Pune: galley --> galley. Drop science 10% and still have gunpowder next turn, +58gpt. Clear the enemies around Babylon (39-1) and this happens

http://img240.imageshack.us/img240/7084/leader2ms.jpg

Hurray!! Now what to do with him? Will get to that in a second. Galley moves, worker moves, troop moves... yadda yadda nothing of relevance.

Our exploring galley finds Teoutihuacan which almost guarantees Tenotchitlan is near there.

Ok really thats all thats important left in that turn.

Post-flight assesment:
Goals Achieved:
- Captured babylon
- Got more troops to our new continent
- Possibly get palace (?? up to team I would actually prefer a WE army)
- Got a pretty good idea of where the Great Library is.

Boys we got ourselves a leader! Now what do we do? Babylon is in no danger whatsoever of flipping and it isnt exactly optimal for a palace. A War Elephant Army? It would guarantee the protection of Babylon although it would open Ur to attack if it remained in Babylon, OTOH it could be pivotal in our offensive manouvers and also I would like the Heroic Epic asap to help in the generation of leaders, our record so far is abysmal, or if we really wanted to we could rush Leo's.
We now have a (very rough) idea of where Tenotchitlan is, are we capable of charging for it? Do we need to (our GA is helping us pull within touching distance, although I'd avoid Education if possible just in case we want to leave that option open.
Militarily we are strong, our GA economy is as good as its been all game, what it will be like after it finishes is another matter, I've tried to build a bit of Infra in the cities around Indus but the next player needs to make that a priority.

My kill ratio really suprised me (39-1) :eek: Catapults rock! :lol: Although if u count the galley n 2 WE lost to dangerous waters its 39-4 which is four times worse :mischief:

before you pick up the game Lboogie13 I want a team discussion (and maybe some advice from any experienced AW players lurking) abotu what to do with this leader. Last time we had no FP city, no sensible army to make and so the only option was the Pyramids. This time we have 3 options so I want a consensus on what we should do.

I'm a LOT happier about handing the save onto the next player this time then last. We still have 11 turns of GA so lets make the most of it.

Great work Mr. T.:goodjob:
I felt so bad losing so many of our ships and leaving you with a quite small force in Babylon in combination with my strategic mistake not to go for Babylon straight away.

I would go for an army -> heroic epic. Maybe it is better to build a sword army as we would waste two phants. In my opinion they are too precious at the moment.
Leo's in our current position will not be that effective. We need all our gold for research, so upgrades are not an issue for long. Especially when our GA ends we will need our cash for research.
As we have the FP now and the babs are exterminated I would not rush the palace in Babylon. I would not like Babylon as the center for our second core. Maybe later when we have the chance to establish an optimal second core there.

Don't feel bad at all Markh you left me with enough to do the job Markh. I took a big risk to do it though, I emptied Elippi and had just an elite horse in Ur, had the force (about 6 swords if i recall and 7 or 8 cats, oh yes and 1 Pike) not been as lucky as they were (fending off a knight along the way, no losses taking Babylon and then the amazing cat barrage to protect the city before reinforcements had arrived) it would have been a very different story. As it is what you left me with was plenty good enough. My concern with a sword army is that the majority of our offence from now on is going to be carried out by War Elephants rather than swords and a sword army would be isolated from the rest unless we slowed the whole advance. In vanilla armies don't get the +1 movement.
The advantage of a WE army is that as well as having our strongest attackers it would be the best DEFENSIVE army we can produce as well.

I agree about Babylon not being optimal, my thinking behind it was that it would allow us to instantly have a productive cities on the new continent and we could then rush the palace in a good spot as it became available. However I think that would work better if back up by an army (preferably a WE army IMO).

Right, I keep mixing up the army features from Vanilla to Conquests.:confused:
So, a phant army it should be if we decide on an army.

I think we can reinforce quite well now with the Great Lighthouse, so we could wait with the palace on that side of the world. It would give us just 3 productive cities whereas we have two productive rings on our continent to reinforce. At the moment it might be difficult to set up a defensible core in the middle of the Aztecs and Persians, but maybe I am worng again and it will be much easier than I think.

We can easily spare the elephants for an army, IIRC we have around 30 elephants atm. We also have 13 galleys i believe, 1 is on scouting duty so that means that at best we can transport up to 24 units to Babylon every 6 turns. As for establish new cores, I have no idea how difficult it will be as I've never played an AW. Not even a practice one so this whole thing is new to me. You're right about the 3 cities of course. My vote at present goes for a WE army using 'Yes!!!' and 2 vet elephants in the army, then get a victory with it when the next batch of invaders arive at babylon and build the Heroic Epic in Delhi.

Once thats done and we have a maybe another 2 cities in our new land (looking for either CxxC or even ICS spacing and also making full use of hills for defence bonus) then we can look at picking a target to go after next. We also will need to make sure all new cities get walls. next player should switch Ur from WE to walls and rush them as once we have an army in Babylon the attackers will go for Ur. If we get a musket there though it will be extremely defencible.
Defence 4
+25% Fortified bonus
+50% Town Walls
+50% Hill

means any muskets would be defending at 9. Pikes would be at 6.75.

Thats all assuming my calculations are correct. I've also got 3 cats in Ur atm for any stray attackers heading that way. If it becomes the target of choice once theres an army in Babylon then pehaps all new catapult arrivals should be dropped off in Ur.

I don't know if any of that made sense, its late and I've had hardly any sleep for days :lol:

Goodnight to all!

And Roster Update :

Tupaclives - just played
Lboogie13 - UP
McLman - on deck
markh

Wow that was an exciting bunch of turns. For what my inexpierenced opinion is worth, I agree with a WE army. With their movement per turn rate they could be used to leave the city to attack and return in a pinch. I like to think of them as the first tank! Does Babylon have rax? If so it makes a WE army defending there almost invincible for now.

Any ideas where to put new cities? Are we going for a ring on our "new world?" Well I'll try not to screw up the great progress you gents have made. I've made some rookie mistakes :blush: but all in all I think I've done well. I know that I am learning a lot this game.

Consider this a got it. I will play tonight after work.

Just one comment about Leo's. You may want to factor in the effect of them having Leo and in a spot that you will not be reaching for a long time.

It could be a close call to weigh an Army/FP Vs Leo. Leo aids you if you have it and hurts you if they have it. Even though you will not be making mass upgrades right away, you may find that being able to get 1 or 2 upgrades at half price is a very useful tool.

In the end you will have more leaders, but may not have another shot at the wonder. Just another consideration, not an absolute vote.

@Vmxa: Very true about it benefitting them, my concern however is that we are at 1050AD in an AW game and still lack the Heroic Epic.
@Lboogie13: As for city placement, I think atm we need defencible positions over rings. Make sure that slow movers (cats, muskets etc.) will be able to move between cities in 1 turn. Also look to build on hills if possible. Don't get too enthusiastic about founding just yet as new cities will need to be garrisoned immediately.

I do build the HE and usually as soon as I can do so, but I am not convinced it is a great bargain. In an AW game you are going to get your leaders, it is just that they seem to not come at the most opportune time. I don't know as the HE does much about that.

Either way is you go, you are not wrong. It is just a close call. My position is that I have never been able to prove that the HE did much for me, but I have saved my butt a few time with Leo's.

I have more than once had less than the gold amount to upgrade without Leo and would have been stuck with a seriously damaged unit. I had Leos and hence had enough gold to upgrade that unit and boom now I have a better unit at FULL HEALTH.

You don't need a lot of case where you are able to upgrade for half price to make an impact. I just am not sure how to tell if the HE did as much or not.

It is not like I won't be getting an HE at some point anyway. As I said, you are not wrong either way, I just want to toss in another factor to comtemplate before you choose. Weither it will sway your or not and weither it would be better or not I cannot say.

Just want to be sure you thought of it.

Make sure that slow movers (cats, muskets etc.) will be able to move between cities in 1 turn.[/B]

If you dont care if the cities grow, ICS(CxC) is better because you can go from city to city in one turn AND fortify.:)

Am I missing something or is there no save posted? Or are we waiting to decide what to do with the leader?

Well I was hoping for discussion on the leader before the save was played, but I actually just forgot to put up the save :blush:

I'm glad it hasn't been played yet. I'd like to come forward with an 11th hour voice of dissent. :mischief:

I saw the posts during the day and had some suspicions, but didn't have a chance to look into it until just now. This is going to sound like it's coming out of left field, but I think we need to use the leader to build the Palace in Ur. Guessing where the Aztec land most likely is, I think it's centrally located. This is Vanilla, so we won't lose that much by moving the Palace which is too close to the FP on our continent. We'll be at least even very soon after we secure some more land in the former Babylon territory. I played with CAII a little bit.

Here's the way things look now. (Golden Age)
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/1050_CAII_Current.jpg

And here's how it would look with Ur as the Capital right now.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/1050_CAII_Ur.jpg

Notice how the difference in gpt and beakers is only 8 less. And that's with a size 1 Capital and only 2 1st ring cities. And if you look in the middle part of the window you can see that Delhi is only losing 4 shields per turn. The loss on the main continent isn't that bad.

And if you're thinking that the GA is skewing things, here's how it would look if we weren't in one.
Currently with the Capital in Delhi:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/1050_CAII_Current_NoGA.jpg

And with the Capital in Ur:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/1050_CAII_UrNoGA.jpg

The differences are far less without the GA (beakers & shields, gpt is the same). By the time the GA is over we'd surely have some more towns founded around Ur, and end up in better shape coming out of the GA. The main reasons for picking Ur is it's better location for placing cities around it, and the fact that it's not a wonder city, we could take advantage of a Free Palace jump later by abandoning it. We'd just need to build nothing more than walls and maybe a Rax. Because the shield loss isn't too great in our mainland, we'd still be able to ferry reinforcements, AND have productive cities right on the front line.

Or, we could go with an Army, and keep this strat in our pocket for the next one. It's just a matter of how soon we'd get another.

Great timing McLman! Great work with the mapstat screenies and i think thats something we need to take into serious consideration. We have a few elites atm and the odds are we will get another leader and could do it then, but at the same time we could build the army later as we seem to be coping alrite without it for now. Also vmxa's suggestions on leo's, and the fact we mightn't get another chance at it throws it up in the air as well. We'll have a vote.

1 vote each.

I vote War Elephant Army, my reasons: we don't yet have the extra cities on the new continent to make a palace there worthwhile. The difference in production, gpt and beakers on our main continent would be small but it would be a negative. It would be better long term I feel but greater income and production (when new core established and palace in final position) later is no reason to change the palace NOW.

War Elephant army: 1 vote
Leonardo's Workshop: 0 votes
Palace in Ur: 0 votes
Palace in Babylon: 0 votes.
Other: 0 votes.

Tough dicision.

I vote for Leo's. We will have the chance only this time. An army we can build with any leader we get. Leo's might be gone then.

Nice work McLMan. I think we should rush the palace as soon as we have 3 or 4 more cities there and a leader of course.

I've just spent about 30 minutes looking at the save in-game and in CAII. It is really a tough decision. I have to start by eliminating my least favorite, Palace in Babylon just won't work because it would eliminate the possibility of the free Palace jump, and I'm just not a fan of vanilla Armies.

Leo's is being built by the Aztecs, Chinese, and the Greeks. Upgrade cost from WE to Cav is 20g. What could hurt is Cats to Cannon at 40g but we are roughly 50 turns away if we bee-line for Metallurgy. Other than that, we won't be doing much upgrading in this game. I think we can finish this game with Cav. I feel confident that we could get it from the Aztecs or Chinese by the time it would be really useful to us, but I'm not sure about the Greeks. Any idea where exactly they are?

My vote goes to ... Palace in Ur. In addition to the arguments in my last post, it will minimize flip risks of not only captured, but native Indian cities as well. The quicker we can get a productive core on this continent, the quicker we can get through this continent.

Well Lboogie13, that gives you the swing vote! From where I sit there's really no bad decision (except maybe Palace in Babylon). We will most likely have the trifecta at some point anyhow. This certainly won't be our last GL.

WE Army - 1 vote
Leo's - 1 Vote
Palace in Ur - 1 vote


OK Lboogie you get the final decision. Have you picked up the save?

Yes I have picked up the save. Sorry for the slow response. I will play in a few hours (gotta go to cathedral in the real world!) I've read everyone's posts. This is really a tough decision. After thinking about it and playing a lot of vanilla, I think we should stay away from the army. I vote for rushing Leo's. At first I thought we should go with a WE army. But the more I think about it, the more I realize armies have never done much for me in Vanilla.

I think it is too early for a new palace location. We are not exactly rich in gold right now to mass upgrade units and may never be. I've never played AW before. Half-price upgrades may be that extra edge we need. Plus with AW we have a great shot of getting another GL if we make a wrong decision.

Well I don't like being the deciding vote but there it is.

One last question, which city to put it in?

For what it's worth, this monkey would have gone with Leo's as well. Its effects are good everywhere, not just on its continent, it's not something you want the AI to get instead, and -- here's the deciding factor for me -- this is the only time you're going to be able to build it. You can always rush the palace later. (And it looks like Ur would have been a great spot for that BTW.)

Overseas invasions are tough, but Leo's really might be the edge to get you all a foothold. Keep shipping upgraded troops over, and the odds are good that you'll be seeing another Great Leader before too long.

Good luck!

Well if we are going for Leo's my suggestion would be in Babylon to expand its culture (which would make it more difficult to attack) and also it is the best defended city and so would be least likely to be lost. As we don't know how much longer we have till Leo's is finished we don't know if we can afford the wait to get the leader across to our main continent.

I would put in in Babylon, too.

:bump: Lboogie13?

Sorry gents that it took me so long to post this save. I actually finished it last night but didn't have a chance to post.

1050 - Switch Babylon to Leo's due in 597 turns but use the great leader and alas we will have it next turn, hit enter

IBT - large stack of Persian troops land outside Babylon

1060 - We get Gunpowder, Chemistry in 10, Babylon riots but we now have Leo's, move to bring more reinforcements to new continent, move some workers to improve area around Indus, attack the Persian units outside Bab, five units in total, all regular, redline 3, yellow line 2, Greeks building JS Bach and Magellan, Aztecs building Magellan

IBT - Persians retreat but destroy improvements along the way, Chinese horsemen attacks Bab, pike defends and redlines Chinese unit until it retreats, 2 Persian immortals and one long bowman move outside Bab

1070 - catapult and redline all Persians, attack with WE, flawless victory, continue moving reinforcements

IBT - Aztec sword attacks our veteran WE, redlines but we get a promotion to elite, Aztec horseman attacks same WE and kills it, Persian knight appears

1080 - More reinforcements, exploring with several galleys, try to attack Persian knight before it destroys improvements, lose one vet WE

1090 - zzzzzz

IBT - Persian knight appears and destroys improvements

1000 - exploring, Chinese have muskets

1110 - Finished road in core to get saltpeter, Chinese complete JS Bac in Shanghai, Persians complete Magellan, founded New Hyderabad, Aztecs have muskets, attack and capture Ashur from the Aztecs with only 2 WE, no casualties, capture 4 slaves and recover two of our workers, it is too close to other major Aztecs cities so I raze it

IBT - Regular chinese galley attacks veteran galley, we win, Aztec Knight attacks vet WE outside where Ashur used to be, we win -1 HP

1120 - zzzzz

1130 - Get Chemistry, Metallurgy in 10, lost galley, I forgot about a few random ocean squares

IBT - Persians and Aztecs attack WE outside New Hyderabad, we win

1140 - Founded New Dacca, iron underneath it, attack Tlatelolco held by Aztecs, lose 1 WE, city has barracks and Marketplace so I decide to keep it, we have no barracks yet on this continent and none coming soon, Tlatelolco is not near other cities to flip, so I thought it was a safe bet

IBT - Vet Persian galley attacks our regular galley and defeats us

1150 - Attack Akkad (Persians) and raze it, no losses and we get one slave but no gold, founded New Indus

Post-flight - Well we now have a ton of galleys with more on the way. I started production on several muskets, we have a bunch more reinforcements on the new continent, especially WE. I did not upgrade any units yet since we have no harbors on the new continent to bring in salpeter and frankly I didn't need to upgrade. Anyway, the next player should have plenty of WE to attack. Here's the save

118092

Sounds like good progress LBoogie:goodjob:

So roster is like this :

Tupaclives - got us a big building supporting our ships
Lboogie13 - began to wreck some havoc among this green guy
McLman - UP
markh - on deck

Nice work Lboogie! :goodjob:

Things have become kind of crazy for me at work. Would a swap be OK? I will be able to play during the weekend.

BTW, I did look at the save. Everyting looks really good. Nice healthy stack all in order, reinforcments en route.

Good job Lboogie :goodjob:

I have no problem with it provided its alrite with Markh
if theres no problems that would give us a roster of

tupaclives
Lboogie13 - just played
McLman - On deck
Markh - UP

No problem. I can play tonight or tomorrow morning.

Hi guys, I am in turn 9 and we have our second leader :D . Wanted to check with you first what to do with him. I would suggest an army as the Great Lib is not far away from us (just 3 tiles) and I think the next player would be able to capture it with the help of an army.

An army, been playing some single player AW games and we should get plenty of leaders. We can drop down a palace once the lands on the new continent would actually get some immediate benefit from it (or rather, enough of an immediate benefit to negate the reductions in our homeland)

I agree, an army would be best.

ok, an army. Will finish my set now and post the log in about 20 minutes.

0) 1150AD : rearrange some tiles and fire some clowns

IBT : an immortal kills a sword
two immortals are unloaded at Ellipi
a Chinese rider captures our workers at Babylon
Delhi : WE -> WE
Madras : musketman -> musketman

1) 1160AD : WE kills immortal perfectly and promotes elite
we kills second immortal at Ellipi
elite horseman kills rider
elite swordsman kills immortal

IBT : Tlate... is attacked by a Persian and Aztec knight, but our wes hold it without problems
a rider attacks our stack and loses
lose a cat on an island
Kolhapur : we -> lib
Lahore : we -> we
Swordy Mountain : we -> musket
Jaipur : musket -> we
Chittagong : musket -> musket
New Kolhapur : we -> lib
New Lahore : galley -> courthouse
New Bengal : galley -> courthouse
The Chinese begin Newton's

2) 1170AD : moving troops

IBT : we lose a we to a rider
several Persian and Aztec knights suicide against fortified wes
Chinese drop a longbow at New Jaipur
Tlatelolco flips :mad: should have razed it.
Karachi : musket -> we
Indus : musket -> we
Pune : duct -> we
New Jaipur riots

3) 1180AD : we lose a we attacking Texcoco
we retakes Tlateloco and razes it, I hate flips
we kills the longbow at New Jaipur and promotes elite

IBT : we lose a we to an Aztec longbow
we lose a we to 2 Persian knights
our golden age ends
New Calcutta : musket -> lib

4) 1190AD : swordsman kills immortal
lose a swordsman to an immortal
swordsman kills immortal
lose a swordsman to an immortal
we kills Aztec longbow
we kills Persian knight
we kills immortal
lose a we to an immortal
we have to turn back science to 30% due to our ended golden age

IBT : Aztec longbow kills a we
Rider suicides against a we
Bombay : we -> we
Bangalore : we -> we
New Punjab : harbor -> cat

5) 1200AD : lose a we to a hoplite
moving troops

IBT : a lot of immortals and riders enter our territory
Delhi : we -> we
Lyons : harbor -> musket
New Delhi : musket -> lib
New Lahorex2 : harbor -> cat

6) 1210AD : we kills Chinese longbow
we kills immortal

IBT : we lose 3 wes to immortals and riders at New Indus
Madras : musket -> musket
Punjab : lib -> musket
Bengal : duct -> we
New Madras : duct -> cat

7) 1220AD : lose a we to a rider
rush walls in New Indus
we kills hoplite
we kills hoplite and takes Eretria
we meet the Americans : declare war
horseman kills rider

IBT : we lose a we at New Dacca and New Indus
New Indus : walls -> barracks
Indus : we -> we
America is at war with the Aztecs

8) 1230AD : cats arrive at New Indus and ping all troops around it
elite we kills immortal
we kills Persian knight
elite we kills Persian longbow
elite we kills immortal
we kills immortal

IBT : an American galles sinks one of ours
Calcutta : we -> we
Lahore : we -> we
Swordy Mountain : musket -> musket
Jaipur : we -> we
Dacca : musket -> lib
Ganges : we -> duct

9) 1240AD : we kills Aztec longbow
elite we kills Aztec longbow
we kills Aztec longbow and promotes elite
elite we kills immortal and we get our second leader :D

IBT : 1 Persian knight suicides at New Dacca
1 Persian kills a we at New Dacca
Metallurgy is in -> Military Tradition in 20
Karachi : we -> we
Chittagong : musket -> musket

10) 1250AD : elite we kills Persian knight
rush walls in New Dacca
we kills Chinese musket at Babylon
we kills Aztec longbow

The Chinese have frigates, so I think we have to expect some cavs soon. I have not moved the cats at New Dacca and all phants there. I leave it to the next better player whether to try to take the GLib with phants only or with the help of the cats a little later. The Aztecs have muskets in their cities and it is their caiptol I think, so they will have some more units in it.

The save and a pic.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Tupac02_1250AD.SAV

Good work Markh, shame about the flip of tlat, what troops did we lose? My suggestion would be to raze everything from here on in unless it has something we want (if we miss smiths, maybe bachs (??), Sun Tzu's wud be useful here as well and obviously the Great Library.)
Speaking of what we want, do we want to go for the Great Library now? I know that the longer we put it off the harder it will be to get our hands on and right now we have a great chance to grab it (cover the stack with the army, even if they arnt great at fighting in Vanilla they still offer a lot defensivly) however we only get 1 shot at it, once we get it we cant grab it later. Although there is every chance that in the few turns it will take us to get it if we go for it now, it could be enough to throw us into the Industrial Age.

Oh well I'm glad those choices fall to McLman.
Couldn't be in safer hands, good luck!

We lost 4 phants when Tlatel... flipped. More or less I saw it coming and the turn before I sat there and thought whether I should abandon it.

Great Lib is a difficult decision at the moment. I think only the Chinese are very advanced. Anyhow the Aztecs are the weakest enemy at the moment, so we should go for them first. I tried to advance into Persian territory as the cats were left there, but I had to withdraw as the stack got attacked each turn and I could not advance and units had to heal. Raze everything that has no wonder would be my suggestion, too.

And not even all the wonder cities need be saved. What good is the oracle to us? or the collosus? or the Great Wall?

Yes, this I took for granted. Should be more clear in my writing. We can even abandon the city with the GLib after we got the benefits of it. It is their capitol at size 12. It will flip for sure.

I got it. Will play within the next few hours.

Turn 0) 1250 AD
Everything looks pretty good. A lot of nice cats, reinforcements on the way, still a lot of movement left in the units (as advertised). We've been holding here for a while, hopefully the AI is kind of gassed, and wont be sending any stacks. Also, I notice America is the only Civ that doesn't need to worry about WW. I decide to press on and send the stack toward Texcoco. My plan to hold the GL is to raze Texcoco and then Teotihuacan before taking Tenochtitlan, then mop-up the smaller cities. Taking the large cities 1st should ease cultural pressure. I don't think we could hold Tenochtitlan with any confidence right off the bat, and it would be too easy to lose a whole bunch of units if it flipped.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/7battleplan.jpg

IT
An Aztec Knight attacks New Dacca from the SE and loses to our musket.
A Persian Knight attacks New Dacca from the SW and is redlined but beats a WE.
A Chinese Rider kills the Pike on the hill W of Babylon.
Persian Knights poised to take on New Indus.

Turn 1) 1255 AD
Kill the Persian knight that got our WE.
Redline a WE but kill an Aztec knight SE of New Hyderabad.
Add a musket defender to Babylon.
Stack moving toward Texcoco.

IT
An Aztec knight suicides vs. a WE and promotes him to elite.
A Persian knight kills the wounded elite WE
Persia sends 2 immortals and a knight after New Indus, all 3 do some damage but die.
A Chinese Frigate attacks our galley exploring the NE corner of this continent and OUR GALLEY WINS!!!! I hope I didn't use up all the RNG luck with that one. This happend S of Houston (owned by the Chinese now).
Persia requests an Audience .. HA!
And there's a reason Houston is now Chinese ...
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/7americagone.jpg
A couple of WE builds finish.

Turn 2) 1260 AD
Stack is in position.
We lose a WE and Horseman before the 3rd and final unit (a WE) scores a victory vs one of the 2 spears defending Troy. He retreats to neutral territory to heal.
Transporting troops.

IT
Immortal Suicides at New Indus.
Persian Muskets move to (apparently) pillage horses near Babylon.
Our exploring galleys notice Riders heading South.
I note that China and Greece go into Anarchy. Most likely to change from Democracy to Monarchy.
China Requests an Audience - HA HA!
A Persian Knight retreats vs. a musket at New Dacca

Turn 3) 1265 AD
16 Catapult volleys net 2 hits at Texcoco. On the bright side, both did damage to defenders, and the 2nd hit revealed another damaged defender. To put it simply, there are 2 muskets in Texcoco, but no other strong defenders. I hold off from attacking to try my luck next turn.
WE kills injured Persian Knight SW of New Dacca and is promoted to elite.
WE doesn't give Persian musket on top of horses at Babylon a chance to pillage and kills him without taking any injuries.
6 more reinforcements arrive at Ellipi

IT
Aztecs request an audience - HA HA HA!
An Aztec Knight comes out of the fog and kills a WE coming behind the stack in support. An Aztec Longbow comes out of Texcoco and loses to another WE support unit, promiting the WE to Elite.
Another Persian Knight suicides at New Dacca
A Rider takes position on the hill W of Babylon.

Turn 4) 1270 AD
Cats are 0 for 16 at Texcoco.
Wait another turn.
WE retreats from attack on 2nd Persian Musket.
Follow-up WE is successful however.
3 reinforcements arrive in Ellipi

IT
Another Persian Immortal suicides at New Indus, however a bunch of Persian Knights take their place next to the city.
The Chinese arrive in masses. Seven riders appear to the West of Babylon, and another 2 press past to kill a musket and WE that were on their way to defend that city. China also lands 2 riders next to Ellipi.

Turn 5) 1275 AD
Send a vet WE to pick off a redlined rider and he loses.
In the East, a WE kills the Aztec Longbow.
16 cat strikes net 2 more hits to muskets, this time the 2nd hit reveals a reg musket. Out of frustration send in a WE, and he loses, promoting the reg musket without causing ANY damage. This brings me to my senses and I don't attack Texcoco (which is now having WLTKD) further.
Vet WE loses to vet Aztec Knight.
2nd one is promoted to elite as he fnishes off the Knight.
I spend 44g to rush the Rax in New Hyderabad.

IT
Persia suicides about 5 Knights at New Indus and New Dacca. They bring in even more Knights.
China puts tremendous pressure on Babylon. A rider kills the lone musket in that town right off the bat. Then our Pike kills 2 and retreats 1 rider. A sword is victorious, a 2nd sword loses.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/7babylonunderpressure.jpg

Just too many Riders coming in and attacking. It was happening so fast I couldn't keep track. We lost a lot of men. Our troops fought bravely, but ...

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/7babylonfalls.jpg

After taking the city they pick off the units that were en route.
The 2 Riders attack Ellipi, one is defeated by a musket, the other is redlined vs. a WE and retreats.

And to add insult to injury, because we lost the Great Lighthouse as well, 3 galleys sink in treacherous waters. We didn't lose any troops in them however.

Turn 6) 1280 AD
And with that the stack leaves Texcoco. With our disconnected core, the Great Lighthouse turns out to be a bigger loss than Leonardo's. The stack needs to pass through New Hyderabad to upgrade the cats to cannon, and then re-take Babylon.
Mop up Rider outside of Ellipi.
Move a musket to Ur. Prepare for further Chines aggression.

IT
The Persians suicide some Knights at New Indus as per usual.
Then the Riders arrive. They lose a couple, retreat a few and end up killing a musket and 2 WE's. New Indus holds.
We lose 2 more galleys to treacherous waters.

Turn 7) 1285 AD
Moving stack, trying to shore up defenses.
Send WE to attack Troy, he beats a spear, but there has been another defender added while he healed. Notice Persia has a Rifle in Samaria (Same island as Troy)

IT
Persia suicides one Knight at New Dacca, but 2nd Knight beats one of our muskets.
Rider kills a WE outside of Babylon's territory.
2 other riders lose to 2nd WE, promoting him to elite.
Chinese Frigate sinks our exploring galley.
Chinese complete Newtons in Beijing.
We lose a galley in treacherous waters.

Turn 8) 1290 AD
WE's kill a Rider and Longbow (Chinese) near Babylon.
Stack back in our territory.

IT
The obligatory Persian suicide is followed by another Chinese onslaught. One WE kills 3 Riders while defending and injures another. A Longbow retreats a WE, only to have him finished off by a Rider.
Greeks are building Shakespeare's.

Turn 9) 1295 AD
Rush a harbor in preparation for upgrading when cats arrive in New Hyderabad next turn.

IT
Normal one Knight Aztec suicide at New Indus.
Rider loses to our musket at Ur.
Thinking it might be ok, Seven Riders attack New Dacca. They kill 2 muskets and 3 WE's.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/7newdaccusfalls.jpg
Harbor built in Ur.
We get a Palace Expansion ???
2 Galleys sink.

Turn 10) 1300 AD
Darn it. I don't know where my head was.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/7upgradefoiled.jpg
We can't get saltpeter across the ocean tiles.
so I use the cats to redline the Chinese musket, then finish him off with a vet WE who's promoted to Elite.
Another vet WE is promoted as he kills the Rider outside of Ur.

I'm leaving the turn with a choice left for some loaded galleys. Risk bringing them now, or hold off until we re-capture Babylon. There are a couple of cannons in them. I'm terribly sorry for losing 2 key cities. I was trying to get more defenders there, all of the reinforcements coming from the mainland were being put into/around our cities for defense. The Riders just keep coming and coming. They're movement is so good, that once they have a city weakened they come from long distances to keep the pressure on.

Sorry guys, now I can only hope that Tupaclives can pull us out of the hole I've gotten us into.

*****The Save***** (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Tupac02_1300AD.SAV)

Ack, some bad luck their McLman. I'll see what i can do. Will play straight away.

Don't sweat it guys. We were bound to lose a few cities sooner or later in AW. We'll get it back.

Pre-flight assesment:

Ack! This does not look good! Its going to take a bit of luck to survive the interturn before I can see what I can do... no MM to do.
Also something to note, everyone save Aztecs are in IA. That means if we get the GL it will sling us all the way to Nationalism.

The best way for me to handle this turnset? With goals.

Short Term Goals:

Survive!! This is obviously the most important part but is looking a tad dicey atm.
Reclaim Babylon: Tricky, but definately doable.
Reclaim New Dacca: Shouldn't be too hard.
Get the Great Library: Can do. Hopefully.

*dons the flightsuit and grabs his helmet*

Pre-flight turn: I have some fortified WE and so I use them to do some counter-attacking. Its risky business but I'm hoping that fortune will favour the brave. The 3 Elite WE in New Indus kill 3 Persian knights but all 3 are yellowlined. (3-0) I also move a Musket from New Hyderbad (its protected by the army so should be safe, it won't be attacked) to New Indus and fortify.
Thats all I can do so I take a deep, deep breath... and hit enter.

IBT - Kill 3 Persian Knights at New Indus (6-0), retreat a rider and kill 1 at Ur but then lose a musket (redline the rider tho) (7-1). Aztecs starts Shakes.

Turn 1 - Ok now I have an army. Lets see what i can do with this biatch! We get 3 new cannons and a WE on the homeland. Start by picking off the redlined Chinese Riders with Elite WE but fail to get a leader. (9-1)
Um... where is the heroic epic? I was going to start it in Delhi but I can't build it, can't find reference to it anywhere... don't tell me we don't have an army victory yet! Start by knocking off a longbow with a 3/5 WE and win without taking damage. Then bump off another with the army. (11-1) Switch Delhi to heroic epic (due in 11). While looking at Delhi I realise there is 1 bit of MM i could have done that would have a difference. As delhi is size 12 it doesnt need 1 excess food so switch from irrigated grassland to mined grassland and the 1 extra shield nets us HE in 10 instead. Yummy.
I do some calculations and if we base our WE in New Indus then we can attack babylon next turn and have the WE protected this turn. Well that sounds like a plan then. Rush walls in New Hyderbad and Ur, send some cats to ur to provide defensive bombardment, send some to New Indus and bombard the knight stack on the mountain next to the city.
Something i've realised:
If we have muskets in cities, even with walls and on a hill, then it will still be attacked BEFORE they would attack our army. This means that if we stick an army in a city it won't be attacked. period. Don't know if this will still apply once cavalry show up but its somethhing we need to consider.

Anyway, use some WE to pick off some of the knights (13-1) try and get the best out of things by using cats is my advice. A couple of redlined elephants who wont be taking part in the attack on Babylon unfortunately.

To be perfectly honest that first turn was exhausting, spent ages looking at the screen with the calculator beside me working out probabilities for attacks and so forth and trying to work out where I can justify sending units. The worker moves back home were actually very relaxing rather than boring for once!

Ok... looking forward much more to this interturn than the last.

IBT - An aztec knight attacks our army. Ok i was wrong about that and thats very bad. Luckily he loses. (14-1) An immortal attacks our elite musket in New Indus and generates a leader! (15-1) Will use him for an army. Probably musket to be perfectly honest. Defensive armies will do us much more good than offensive ones at this point. What I wouldn't give for a rifle army though... Speaking of Rifles, a Persian rifle shows up. Lose a musket to greek knights at Ur. Killed 7 Greek Knights though... (22-2). Plenty of Riders show up but none had enough movement to attack this turn.

Turn 2 - OK now things look nasty again. Hope this won't be the pattern for things (clear it all out, just as many back next turn) or else we won't be able to advance. Start by using cats to redline everything I can. Also use the leader to form an army before starting to attack anything. Want it to be possible to pop more leaders this turn. What should I fill the army with? A 3-man musket army fortified in a town with walls on a hill (so 12hp defence 8) would probably be enough to make a town safe. OTOH we need something in babylon to protect it when we claim it... Opt for a Musket army with a vet musket and the guy who spawned the army (only 2 muskets in the city). Pick off 2 riders and 2 knights with elites but no leader. And some very nearly dead elites too (26-1). Charge Babylon with the WE and it takes just 4 to recapture the city, 1 had to retreat, the other 3 were all victorious (29-2).

http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/2074/babagain3xt.jpg

i would risk an attack on New Dacca but I don't want to lose Babylon in the interturn so I send defenders there. I will also try and pick off the Greek Knights and Chinese riders in our territory. Manage to kill 4 knights and a rider for no loss (33-2) but will probably lose several WE in the interturn. Reinforcements en route will be here next turn.

feeling relatively confident going into the IBT but it was yet another exhausting turn.

IBT - A 2hp Elite WE standing on a forest fends off 2 Greek Knights and redlines a Chinese Rider before dying (35-3) that was the only loss of the interturn although Chinese frigates bombarded our mainland coastline.

Turn 3 - Banglore: WE --> WE, Madras gets hit by its 3rd turn of disease in a row :(. Indus: WE --> WE, New Madras: Cannon --> cannon. The only new arrivals in the inter turn was an Aztec LB and a Chinese LB. The 4 redlined greek Knights retreated for the Plains Wheat that wasnt under our control and fortified. Should be easy leader fishing. Hoping to get 1 for a 3rd army. Two Musket armies and we should be good to go on the offensive confident in our ability to fend off attacks. Rush walls in Babylon. Reinforcements arrive. Up the science slider 10% to get Mil trad in 4 instead of 6 at -9gpt. Leader fishing against redlined knights and a rider but no leader, no losses either. (40-3).
Wow I've already killed more guys in my first 3 turns as i did in my whole 10 last time! Continue leaderfishing against longbows without success (41-3) and send a whole bunch of phants to New Hyderbad so that next turn we retake New Dacca.
Was the quietest turn so far, and a great change to only have to do some leader fishing rather than try and haul things back our way. Hoping for a nice quiet interturn before tea and biscuits in New Dacca next turn.

IBT - lose a 1hp elite WE to a Chinese rider (41-4) and a bunch of persian knights and chinese riders show up at babylon. Lucky i landed reinforcements last turn. We get a double palace expansion.

Turn 4 - We get 5 new WE and a cannon on the mainland. Start the turn off by getting New Dacca back. Takes just two WE (both victorious) to reclaim it. Killed 2 riders. (43-4). Rush a settler in Ur for 112gp, sorry if you think i paid too much but I want that settler now. I've achieved the first 3 goals. The Great Library is my target and this settler is going to be a combat settler.
Clear all the guys around babylon (47-4)
Don't know what is about to arive out of the fog and so slightly apprehensive about this interturn.

IBT - Lose 2 WE but kill a knight and a LB (49-6)

Turn 5 - Clear away the bad eggs (53-6) this was a relaxing transitional turn. Three turns till I will attack Tenotchitlan. Lots of movement on the homeland. We have a big group of guys itching to get to the front. Galleons and rails would make this so much easier but taht will have to wait until we get the great library ;).
Very easy turn, no pressure on the interturn. Whatever comes will come, only riders can attack anything and I'm confident we will hold out.

IBt - No attacks but several guys show up. I moved the sole musket out of babylon to cover a stack of 3 redlined elite WE and two cannons and so everyone went for Babylon, with no1 able to reach it in the interturn. Leaves them prime for akillin'

Turn 6 - Mil Trad in 1 but cant turn science back. Clear 4 riders from around Babylon (57-6) but there are more guys there than I can handle with half a dozne redlined WE... will have to hope our musket holds the line in the inerturn. Move guys into New Dacca, around 25 WE there as well as catapults, 4 muskets a WE army and a settler. Destination? The hill 2S. Why? Because then I can cover the guys with a city and still hit Tenotchitlan in the same number of turns. The big bad turns seem to be over for now. Will get the Great Library...
I think I can, I think I can...

IBT - Lose 2 slaves... our musket succesfully defends against a persian rifle and promotes to elite, our army in New Dacca kills two Knights but is redlined (and no rax) China also drops a rider off by Ellipi. (60-6) Mil Trad comes in. Set science to 0% in preparation for the Great Library influx.

Turn 7 - Everyone is in Democracy...??? How can they manage that after all the guys we've killed?? THEY CANT!! :cry: We need to get them into Monarchy, cut off their commerce bonus and they are worse than us.
Pick off 2 riders, a musket around Babylon. Take out a longbow and I generate my 2nd leader of the turnset, kill the 2nd longbow (65-6). Now what to do with him? If we wait two turns we will get economics from the Great Library and then he can rush smiths. And we dont have enough muskets for another musket army (which along with a cav army is the only army we need right now) and of course wait those 2 turns again n it could be a rifle army so... decide to hang on to him. I want smiths. Sorry I'm not stopping to consult this time guys but I am really confident we will pop plenty more leaders, so long as we keep fishing.
Upgrade 4 WE to cavalry (40gold all up!). Now to deal with that pesky landing. Well its only 1 rider and 1 of the boats dropping guys off at Ellipi this turn carries a cannon and a WE. Perfect, bombard the rider taking off 1 hp then kill him with th WE and promote to elite. (66-6)
Next turn, the Great Library!

IBT - 3 Greek knights show up, I was wondering when they were going to come back! Our musket in Babylon retreats a Persian knight.

Turn 8 - Decide to get the Great Library last off in this turn. Pick off the rifle by Babylon with cannons and a WE (67-6).
Now lets watch the combat settler tactic in motion.

http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/4256/combatsettler4ah.jpg

http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/7766/glstack4jb.jpg

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/5589/tenotchitlan8ap.jpg

Here is the order of the battle

Vet WE wins (3/4) against vet musket.
Vet WE dies against vet musket (1/4)
Vet WE wins (3/4) against reg musket and promotes to elite (4/5)
Vet WE dies against reg musket (3/3)
Vet WE wins (1/4) against reg musket.
Reveals 1/4 Musket.
Vet WE wins (2/4) against (1/4) vet musket.

And we capture the Great Library! (71-8)

Prepare for the interturn with a very good feeling.

IBT - Our WE succesfully defend against 2 Aztec knights, our Vet WE covering our entire worker stack (its a position that can be attacked by riders) defeats 2 riders and promotes to elite! Can we do no wrong? (75-8)

And then the techs roll in :)

The Republic
Theology
Printing Press
Music Theory
Education
Banking
Astronomy
Democracy
Economics (smiths still up for grabs!)
Navigation (no more ocean tiles!)
Physics
Free Artistry
Theory of Gravity
Magnestism (cancels Great Lighthouse so we'll need to upgrade our guys to galleons to maintain movement)
Nationalism

15 techs, not bad for 1 interturn ;).

Turn 9 - First thing is to rush smiths. Don't know how much it will save us now but in the long run will be very useful. Always is. Move all the guys out and back to New Ganges. Sell the granary in Tenotchitlan (its only improvement) then abandon the city. its flip risk was astronomical.
Kill 2 Greek Knights (77-8). Leave science on 0% for a turn as we need cash for upgrades next turn.

IBT - lose a musket to a Greek Knight, then an elite WE kills 2 riders and pops another leader (my 3rd of the turnset and the HE is still 2 turns away!) (79-9). Smiths finishes and income jumps 30gpt.

Turn 10 - Not much for me to do but consolidate for the next player. I upgrade 4 Muskets to rifles, 5 cats to cannons and 13 vet WE (all our vet WE) to cavs, dont upgrade Elites until they pop a leader ok fellas? Elite WE (or knights) can still be used to knock off redlined guys all the way up to Infantry (mech infantry just isnt gunna happen). Leave the leader in New Dacca for the next player to decide how to use. Send a rifle from New Hyderbad to New Indus and add him to the 2musket army. Sorry if you guys dont like armies that arnt entirely the 1 type but we want to keep our defensive armies up to scratch as long as possible so it made sense to add a rifle to it, its still 1 movement regardless and it wont ever be doing any attacking. Plus it makes it look to the AI like a full rifle army (12hp defence 12 when fortified behind walls on a hill). Try to ease the interturn by knocking off 4 knights with cavs (get 2 promotions) (83-9)

The current front:

http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/7094/front6yt.jpg

Note: The front has been a lot quieter than that most of the turnset, it comes and goes in terms of how many guys there are. This is clearly a wave then therell be a trough then another wave etc.

The leader is in New Dacca we should try and work out what to do with him, a cav army is my preference but it might be time for the palace jump. Maybe McLman could whip out the mapstat info for us (wink wink nudge nudge :mischief:).

Post flight assesment:

Goals set
- reclaim babylon
- reclaim New Dacca
- Get Great Library
- Survive

Goals achieved
- reclaimed Babylon
- reclaimed New Dacca
- Got Great Library
- Survived.

Final Kills:Losses Count (83-9)

Things werent nearly as bad as McLman had made out although getting that first leader was really important as it meant I could stick a musket army in New Indus and then not worry about it for the rest of the turnset. its only now that other cities are protected by rifles that i had to prop it up again. We are completely broke guys. Sorry but during the turnset I spent all our money on a deficit research, rushing raxes n walls and then upgrades. We still need to find the cash to upgrade galleys, catapults, muskets and continue to rush walls where appropriate. It might be an idea to start selling raxes near the back of our new front as they wont be required, and try and keep raxes at the actual front whenever possible to save cash. The line is holding firm thanks to the cannons (they are so much better than cats!) and now cavalry will help that enormously. We should push to take over Aztecland as soon as we can as we could get a 3rd lux which we have been missing so sorely for so long.
Oh also should we start thinking about a pillaging army? Would have been great to have one earlier but doesnt matter. What I'm thinking of is maybe a 3-man rifle army covering a WE moves onto tile, WE follows and pillages. Just as good as a pillaging army in C3C! And could slow them down a lot. Just something to think about.

Oh well thats all from me guys

Good luck Lboogie13!

Looks like Leo's is about to pay off. (Once there's actually more than one gold in the treasury, that is. :lol:) Great turnset from tupaclives! :worship: The monkey suspects that China is going to be a fun nut to crack -- very likely infantry on rails by the time you get there. Good luck!

Consider this a got it. I should post later tonight.

Great work tupac :goodjob:

What should we do with the leader? No wonders to rush so its palace or army. My preference goes to a cav army for offence or a rifle army so we can go pillaging. However I'd still like to see the mapstat info for if we jumped the palace to the new world.

Also what are our research plans? My preference would be
steam--> industrialization --> espionage

My reason behind this is because we no longer have a GL slingshot to get us level, nor do we have a golden age waiting around the corner to drive us up we'll ahve to do it with what we have. So my strategy (in a SP game) would be rails, factories, Intelligence Agency, then shut off research, steal techs to stay level and use artillery/cannons and infantry/rifles and cavs to steamroll my way across the world.

Pre-flight goals

1. Destroy remaining Aztecs cities within close range
2. Defend current cities and if possible make sorties into Persian territory


Now boarding....

1350 - tupac leaves me in good shape, hit enter

IBT Greek knights attack army in New Indus we kill one, retreat the other, rifleman in army gets promo to elite, Chinese knights attack army and they are easily pushed back, Chinese galleons destroy improvements outside babylon

1355 - Hero epic is done, New Delhi riots, employ a tax man to control it, sell some rax on our core. Based on tupaclives suggestions I create a cav army with the idea that if we are putting palace on new continent leaders shouldn't be that hard to come by later. I attack Tlaxcala with 2 cavalry, capture the city with no losses and take 3 slaves. Ghandi wanted to keep it but I explain to him that Aztecs are not really "Indians" no matter what the Europeans think. :cool: Raze it (besides the city name is too hard to pronounce). ;)

IBT - Persian stack and Greek stack move outside New Indus, they each send several units to attack, army defends flawlessly. chinese galleons bombard outside babylon

1360 - upgrade 2 galleys to take on 2 chinese galleons, attack Chinese rider outside New Hyderabad with vet cavalry, win -1HP

IBT - Greeks attack New Lahore with 2 knights (I feel like an idiot for missing their landing) regular archer redlines both and sends them retreating without taking a scratch, Chinese bowman lands outside New Lahore, more destruction of improvements outside babylon by 2 chinese galleons

1365 - a lot of attackers are starting to converge on New Indus

118643

Start to pick them off with cannons and catapults. Catapults are incredibly inaccurate. Unload reinforcements in Ellipi. Attack Chinese bowmen outside New Lahore with swords and win. Kill redline Greek knight with horseman, try to attack second with horseman but die. Send elite warrior because now I'm ticked off and he finishes him off. Move upgraded galleons to challenge chinese galleons

IBT - Army in New Indus fends off Persian stack but they pillage a hill outside city and yellow line army. 2 Chinese galleons harassing babylon turns out to be about 5. They promptly attack and kill both of our galleons we take one chinese ship with us and redline another. Remaining chinese ships destroy more imporvements. Greek knight appears and kills musket I had defending slaves outside New Dacca. Gotta love that RNG. Greeks finish Shake's in Athens.

1370 - Kill the greek knight that stole our slaves but of course they were abandoned already. It was the principle of the thing. upgrade some catapults in New Indus. I attack Calixtlahuaca with 2 cavs, defended by 1 pike and 1 musket, no losses. Burn the city to the ground. We get no gold but 1 slave. Attack Aztec knight lurking around with vet cav and he gets a promotion to elite. Finish off redlined Chinese riders that appeared outside Babylon. Move cav army and 3 cavs outside Texcoco.

IBT - Persians continue to attack New Indus, move a large stack of rifles outside city, Chinese galleons destroy more improvements around babylon

1375 - Kill Greek Hoplite outside Babylon after redlining with cannons with elite WE. Get a great leader! :ar15: I fortify leader in Babylon. Switch New Hyderabad from cavalry (due in 57) to settler and rush it for 28 gold. Attack and raze Texcoco with 3 cavs, didn't even need the army. We capture 3 slaves.

IBT - Persians step up their attacks on New Indus and redline army. Greek reg knight attacks New Hyderabad and kills vet cavalry. RNG must have been working overtime. :( Chinese rifles attack and redline the army down to 2 HP. Chinese galleon continues its assault outside Babylon. One galleon runs away.

1380 - upgrade some units including our now sucky catapults. Attack Xochicalo, lose 2 cavs and finally burn it to the ground with the army. We capture 2 slaves. Chinese galleon is right outside Babylon. I redline it with cannons.

IBT - Persian cavalry suicides at New Dacca, spot Greek galleon lurking up around our northern tip

1385 - upgrade some more units, move cav army and cavs to Teotihuacan, Aztec capital. Bomb chinese vet rifle outside babylon, kill with elite WE but no leader.

IBT - Chinese cav and rider attack New Indus unsuccessfully.

1390 - Eretria cannot produce settler as it is not growing. Switch production to granary. We can't land on nearby Chinese island anyway, all tiles are filled with Chinese units. Attack Teo... and there are only two measly pikes defending the whole capital. Attack and take the capital. :aargh: It has the Great Wall and there are now no Aztec cities or otherwise anywhere near it. I have heard some good arguments of keeping the great wall in AW as it doubles the effects of city walls and right now all our cities on the new continent are small and need walls. In the remote chance it flips I only leave one cav to quell resistance and move the remaining units back to heal.
Founded New Pune and we now have dyes.

IBT - Persians attack new Ganges with two cavs, vet cav defending gets promoted to elite but dies on the next attack.

1395 - Clean up time. The stacks have dwindled a bit so I start to pick off various attackers outside New Indus, New Ganges and New Dacca. Move cav army and several cav units outside Antioch (persian)

IBT - Persian stack reappears outside New Ganges and kills one cavalry defending. Chinese attack New Hyderabad and kill one cav.

1400 - We attack Antioch, 2 cavs retreat, army attacks twice and razes the city. We capture 1 cannon and 3 slaves. Ghandi issues a declaration to his foes that "resistance is futile." :borg: Vet cav on mop up duty attacks and kills a Greek knight outside New Indus and receive a promotion to elite status for his work.

Post-flight - I achieved goal #1 and took out all Aztec cities on the new continent within range. I started moving into Persian territory. We should concentrate on moving the front line further into enemy territory.

I should have rushed a few more settlers but I used most of the cash for rax, walls and upgrades. Research was creeping along on steam. I was worried about boosting it up and eating up our badly need gold for upgrades. The lack of any real sea power is not hurting us yet but we should think of starting to upgrade our galleys. The new leader is in Babylon. I will leave it to the next player to decide what to do with it. I realize keeping Teotihuacan was a risk just to keep the Great Wall. It has not flipped but I will leave it to the next player to decide to abandon or keep it.

Also, there are several galleys that have yet to be moved. The Chinese galleons appeared in our reinforcement shipping lane. The units that just razed Antioch still have not been moved. It is your choice whether to push farther ahead or fall back to heal.

We have really done well so far. However, the longer the game goes the more our lag in tech worries me. Here's the save. 118645

And for you lurkers...118644

Oh by the way I sold rax in Madras, Swordy Mountain and Bangalore.

Great Wall is already obsolete with your aquisition of Metallurgy, so no free city walls. But the culture pressure of the Aztecs should be pretty low at this point. Might as well keep it, maybe starve it down and let it regrow with loyal native Indians.

Looks like you have enough territory in the new world to make the palace leap profitable, but someone should run the numbers.

AW anywhere above Regent means you'll be behind in tech, but cavs and cannons should carry you far. Good luck with the Persians!

Great work on the Aztecs Lboogie13!
OK McLman is up as we are back to the normal roster, before you play can u run the numbers on a palace on the new continent? Also as we have a 3rd lux now so can we cut back lux slider at all?
Also just a note for Lboogie13, i see from the screenie you are running 10% science. Does that get us steam in better than 40 turns? If it doesnt then set science to 0% and run 1 scientist. That still gets us it in 40 turns as nothing can take longer than 40 turns to research (or better than 4). I would actually suggest going full speed on steam, then 1 scientist on industrialization then full on espionage. Thats assuming we are going down that track of course.
I would propose the next leader gets used on a palace on the new continent and the leader after that goes for a pillaging rifle army (well pillaging when supported by a WE). Also check the Military advisor every turn to find out when the other civs drop out of democracy. We need to get them into Monarchy or better yet, communism!

Good luck McLman

Wow, much happened after my last set. Great work, guys.:goodjob:

I would go full on steam as rails will improve our tiles and we can reinforce much faster to push forward.

Did I miss something ? Why are our raxes being sold on the home continent ? Are these cities now specialized on cannons / infra ?

Sorry forgot we had metallurgy. Should have razed that city. We can always abandon it.

As far as raxes, we don't need them in every single city in our core so tupaclives suggested selling a few to help pay/offset maintenance costs for new raxes on the new continent.

tupaclives - as far as research, at first science slider at 10% made a difference. I believe it knocked steam down about 10 turns. The last 2 turns actually increased the time for steam.

OK, I ran some numbers.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/1400economy.jpg

On the left is current status, and on the right is with the Palace in New Hyderabad. I was a bit surprised it's this close considering how small the cities on the new Continent are. Our gross income would go down by only 13gpt, but our net would be -29gpt. You can also see the differences in science and luxury spending. As the cities on the new continent grow this difference will diminish. New Hyderabad is a little bit better location than Ur because it is more centrally located. I've filtered by high corruption on the left, and low corruption on the Palace move side. Our new continent cities would be a lot more productive, although they'd need to grow a bit to get good production out of them. We'd still have a nice productive core around the FP in Indus on the mainland.

Can we stand a slight overall production drop to get the new core up and running? I'd hate to keep the leader on ice, would it be more beneficial to go put another Army in the field? We're a long way from the next "useful" wonders (Hoovers and ToE), but the Military Academy and Pentagon are other possibilities.

I'll hold off from playing for more discussion.

What happened to Smith's?

We rushed it with one of the 3 leaders we got during my turnset.

wait wasnt the difference less before? Before jumping a palace I would prefer to make sure the city we jumped it to (as well as being central enough to get at least 1 complete ring) would not ruin our rings. Rings are so powerful in Vanilla so even if we had to abandon a town I would want to make sure that all cities around the new palace were minimum 4 away, as dangerous as that could be in defensive terms, if its behind the lines a litte it would be such a boost. That way our FP would actually gain effectiveness although our new core would still be weak for a while.

I say jump the palace at the next opportunity, but make sure that the new RCP will not change the RCP for our FP in Indus.

This is a tough call. We have great production in our core but terrible production on the new continent.

Would it be worth it to wait a turnset? My thoughts are that we could push the frontline back and actually start to improve some infra on the cities. Although that would take more time than a palace jump. We also have Pentagon and Military Academy to consider. With the amount of elite and vet cavs we are bound to get another leader in the next 10 or 20 turns.

I'm not sure about another army. One the one hand, another cav army would be a good offensive weapon used in conjuction with our other cav army. We could probably quickly take and raze several small cities with them. On the other hand, I don't like being stuck with too many outdated armies. It sucks that you can't updgrade armies in Vanilla...but that is a discussion for another time.

So basically my vote is to rush pentagon or military academy and rush palace jump with the next leader.

The Pentagon is an option for sure, however the Mil Acadamey is pointless if its going to take 20 turns to build an army wherever its placed. In vanilla, the pentagon and mil acad dont increase the attack of armies. A 3-man cav army is always a 6/3/3 unit, just one with lots of hp.

My vote goes for either the pentagon (an extra cav in the army, and extra WE in that army and an extra rifle in the defensive army would all go down well) or for a rifle army to go pillaging.

I do not have a chance to look at the save, but if we have enough forces at the front I would rush the palace now. It will always be negative in the beginning as we have no solid production to get some infra up there. We would have to cashrush infra there, but I think this will be quite expensive and corruption will eat up everything.
If it is not save enough I would rush the pentagon. 4-unit armies are quite nice. Leaders for armies will come.

We do have a decent number of troops on the front. However, my concern is once we go on the attack do we have enough to hold new cities once we start settling.

tupaclives, you are absolutely right that the military academy is worthless. I don't think I have ever actually built an army. I have mixed feelings about a pillaging army. Are we talking about an army we send deep into enemy territory or pillaging near the front lines? I would rather raze cities and settle, keeping infra for ourselves instead of rebuilding.

My vote is for Pentagon. It is a close call so I don't think either way we can go wrong.

I got home too late and was too tired to try to play last night, but I did take another look with CAII this morning before work. Tupaclives makes a very good point about RCP in the new core. I first looked to find a location that could incorporate Ur and Babylon with RCP-4 and still have room for another couple of cities. I was hopeful that the spot would be on the lake, but it's not. It's a SW of the lake, and would require demolishing/moving most of our cities on the new continent, and then we'd still end up with only 4 towns on the 1st ring. I think we should plan a new core (with a dotmap and everything) and move the palace after the new capital and a couple of 1st ring towns are in place. I agree that the sooner we get the palace moved the better off we'd be, even if we have a slight drop in overall production for a spell (the galley train is not much fun). But I don't think now is the time. Initial thoughts are somewhere near where the Persian border is now. Aztec land would be nice if it wasn't for the tundra.

The more I think about how frustrated I was during/after my last turnset the more I feel that the other civs deserve pillaging armies. One for each civ (China deserves two) to keep their capitals and resources disconnected.

Today is a much better day than the last few, and I'm looking forward to playing my turns this evening. Hope to found our soon to be capital city, and come up with a plan for the core. Pentagon is a decent option for the leader. I have never found much use for the Mil Academy either.

My thinking behind getting pillagin armies is we are now facing cavs. Cavs are a big problem with their movement and attack. So a rifle army shouldn't be attacked (well I'm pinning my hopes on that) if it isnt in a city and if covering a WE we have the chance of cutting of horses or saltpeter. No horses means no cavs (ditto saltpeter). If they cant send cavs they'll send rifles and we can pick off rifles with cannons and cav. If we ever get Replaceable parts the game is in the bag. Just remember Handy's principles for AW. If you're not making progress you're probably losing.
Cutting off resources is big progress.

Turn 0) 1400 AD
Rifles coming after us. Troops embattled and healing. Researching at minimum. Switch one taxman to scientist, still steam in 31 and now getting an additional 47gpt. Some units with partial movement.
Pick off redlined Persian Cav
Hit the wrong arrow key and attack the Chinese Frigate with our (empty) galley. I thought for a second the galley was going to win as the Frigate was yellow-lined right off the bat, but the galley couldn't get it done.
Rush Pentagon in Babylon

IT
A lot of action at New Ganges
Persian rifle attacks Cav covering our workers and loses.
Persian Cav attacks same Cav and wins, capturing 3 of our workers.
Persian rifle attacks New Gagnes and loses to a Cav
Persian rifle attacks New Gagnes and beats our Cav
Persian Cav attacks New Gagnes and beats our Cav
Chinese Cav attacks New Gagnes and beats our Cav
Chinese rifle attacks our redlined Cav outside of Babylon and kills him.
Yellow-lined Chinese Frigate attacks one of our Galleys, and the Galley wins!!!
Many Persian rifles enter our lands. There's even an Aztec archer running about the mountains.
Barracks finishes in New Dacca

Turn 1) 1405 AD
Redline Greek Rifle outside of New Hyderabad with cannon and a full health Cavalry loses to him.
Cannons hit everything around our cities. Pick off the enemy I can with our healthier Units. Kill 4 of different Nationalities, lose 1.
New Gagnes is under tremendous pressure. It is down to 2 injured Cavalry + 4 cannons defending. I move a musket out of New Hyderabad to help. I move rifle covering workers (as well as workers) outiside of New Hyderabad to take his place.
There are 3 injured Cavalry, a cannon, 3 workers and an army deep in Persian territory. Don't want to waste time escorting all of that back, so for now, that's our pillaging force. Destroy a mine 2 tiles away from Persepolis.

IT
The Persians, the Greeks, and finally the Chinese hit New Gagnes.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/8newgagnesfalls.jpg
What is it with my turnsets?
Injured opponents turn away to heal.

Turn 2) 1410 AD
Again hit everything near a city with cannons. Take out a couple of attackers.
Not many reinforcements on the way from the core.

IT
New Pune (defended by a lone vet cavalry) is the next AI target. Persia, then Greece attacks with Cavalry.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/8newpunegoes.jpg
Teotihuacan (again defended by a lone cavalry) looks to be the next AI target.

Turn 3) 1415 AD
Move a few cannon out of New Hyderabad and hit New Gagnes. Attack yellow-lined rifle with a vet cav and the cav retreats. Hit it with the WE army and am worried as the rifle holds its ground for one attacker, but succumbs to the 2nd. Defended by a yellow cav right now, but can't continue the attack.
Land a couple of reinforcements trying to run them to Teotihuacan to help out there.
Pillaging around Persepolis

IT
Reinforcements on the way to Teotihuacan get killed by Greek Knights.
Greek reach the city ... Nuts
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/8teotfalls.jpg
Chinese land a rifle next to Ellipi

Turn 4) 1420 AD
Hit what I can with cannons, although they miss a lot this time. Take out a couple of the weakened units.
Land some more reinforcements at Ellipi

IT
Now that the WE army is weakened, New Dacca becomes a target. WE army kills about 5 units of different nationalities. Chinese and Greek begin heavy pillaging in our territory.
Chinese Rifle kills musket at Ellipi
Units streaming in.

Turn 5) 1425 AD
Kill Rifle outside Ellipi with vet Cav
Again, hit everyting within range with cannons, and kill a couple of attackers.

This has taken me a long time, it's late, and I don't want to hold the save for another day so I'll pass it on to the next player. Hopefully the next player will be able to do something. I'm really frustrated. Can't seem to do anything right in this game, not even hold cities. The only thing that went OK is the pillaging. The Persian capital will be cut off in 4 turns. I also managed to get the reinforcement flow going again. I think the tide will turn for the AI (and us too) in a few turns. There are a couple of settlers on the way with the reinforcements. Sorry for turning another crap set of turns guys.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/8domlimit.jpg

*****The Save***** (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Tupac02_1425AD.SAV)

You're not having much fun in this one :lol:

Oh well not too worry as I showed in my last turnset recovering cities is not that hard, its just holding them that requires effort. Good work with the pillaging, sounds like it went well showing that armies are good for something in vanilla ;)

I would suggest trying to pillage china once we have ravaged Persia enough. As persia are our neighbours this will have helped our defence hugely. I'll take a peek at the save see if I can find any specific recommendations for us to go on.

Actually, taking cities back from the AI can be easier than taking them the first time around. The garrisons are usually pitiful, often just the lone banged up unit that was the final troop to take down your defenders. Not to say that they don't sometimes reinforce, but they rarely do it the way they should if they were serious about keeping their conquests.

Looks like the RNG gods did not look favorably on McLMan this turnset either.

Tough turnset McLMan. Holding that many cities on a new continent is difficult indeed with China and Persia being still at full strength. I will take a look at it later today.

Took a relatively quick look (only played through 1 interturn and the next) only lost 1 cav and a full galley (y the guys were sitting in the boat and not unloaded is beyond me...) and cleared out just about all the defenders. However here is the biggest point.

We are doing Min research (so max gpt) and yet WE ARE NOT SPENDING!

When you do min research in a game like this, especially one where the odds are stacked against us we have to spend! We have rax's on most all the cities on the continent so why, for the love of god, have we not rushed rifles and cavs? We are building settlers to fill land when we cant defend what we have! Rush rifles and cavs on the new continent, we have the cash so lets use it! Thats why we are doing min research! Also make sure that all galleys get upgraded, that 1 less mp is significant.

Markh, make sure you unload the galley just off Elippi before you go into the interturn, i ran the interturn twice and it will be attacked by a chinese frigate, unload the guys because even unloading directly into the city (so they can actually move) they still cant move until next turn.

McLMan - ouch, my sympathies are with you. SimpleMonkey is right though. The AI is pitiful at holding captured cities in Vanilla. It is much easier to take them the second time around. We have to hope to keep the AI busy trying to take one city and defend the hell out of it. Let's see what we can take back.

:bump: have you picked up the save Markh?

I had a short look a save today. Could not get it to it earlier, too much work at the moment. :cry: What puzzles me is that we have regular units. Why ? I really do not like to fight with reg units in AW at this stage. From what I see I would judge that we will not be able to hold our position on the new continent for long. China and Persia are much too strong. We need to destroy one of their cores, but I do not see how. I do not want to sound pessimisic. A histographic win is quite likely, but conquest will be quite a challenge. Persia is railing, so according to my experience we will see infantries soon and we are far away from that..
I will play my turns in about 10 hours. Any suggestions are welcome.

I agree things are looking... well dicey to put it mildly, which is why I'm so keen to go a pillagin'. It won't be easy to win this game, but I think that was established some time ago.

The Persian capital can be cut off in 4 turns. We have the other armies defending at the moment. Sending one of them to China might be a bit of a gambit, but it could work.

ok, so let the games begin.

0) 1425AD : rush several rifles on the new continent
turn on research again, steam in 14
we should go steam -> electricity -> replacable parts
artillery will be needed soon. Cannons are not going to do the job.
attack a Greek rifle with a reg cav, but cav retreats doing no damage
vet cav kills the Greek rifle perfectly which gets him a promotion to elite [1-0]
vet cav kills Greek rifle [2-0]
upgrade muskets in New Dacca to rifles, thanks to Leo's that is quite cheap

IBT : we lose a cav and galley, but our defenses in the cities hold [11-2]
Babylon : rifle -> cav
Ur : barracks -> worker
Bombay : cav -> cav
New Indus : rifle -> rifle
New Karachi : market -> lib
New Hyderabad : rifle -> rifle

1) 1430AD : upgrade a cat to cannon
cav kills a Greek cav [12-2]
cav kills a Greek rifle [13-2]
lose a cav to a Persian rifle at New Dacca [13-3]
elite we kills Persian cav at New Indus [14-3]
reg cav kills Persian cav at New Indus and is now a vet [15-3]
cav kills Perisan cav at Babylon [16-3]
extensive mm, fire clowns, set some cities to growth again
upgrade a pike in Ur to a rifle

IBT : our defenses hold [19-3]
China lands 2 cavs at New Kolhapur
Delhi : cav -> cav
Calcutta : settler -> rifle
Karachi : cav -> cav

2) 1435AD : elite cav kills Persian cav at New Hyderabad [20-3]
reg cav kills Greek rifle at New Dacca [21-3]
cav kills Greek cav at Ur [22-3]
reg cav kills Greek cav at Babylon and becomes a vet [23-3]
cav kills Chinese cav at New Kolhapur [24-3]
cav kills Chinese cav at New Kolhapur [25-3]
upgrade our galleys to galleons
lose a cav to a Chinese rifle at Babylon [25-4]

IBT : we lose 2 units and the others 3 [28-6]
our army in Persia is attacked although it is green and is redlined, The Persians did not touch it, but the Chinese
Lahore : settler -> rifle
New Calcutta : marketplace -> duct

3) 1440AD : cav kills Chinese cav at New Indus [29-6]
reg cav kills Persian rifle at New Dacca and is now a vet [30-6]
cav kills Persian rifle at New Dacca [31-6]
elite cav kills Persian cav [32-6]
cav kills Chinese rifle at Babylon [33-6]
cav kills Persian cav at Ur [34-6]

IBT : our pillaging army is killed [35-10]
Jaipur : cav -> cav
New Madras : courthouse -> marketplace
New Kolhapur : settler -> courthouse

4) 1445AD : elite cav kills Persian cav and we have another leader [36-10]
form an army
elite war elephant kills Persian cav [37-10]
lose a cav to a Persian cav [37-11]
cav kills Greek cav at Babylon and promotes elite [38-11]
cav kills Greek cav at Babylon and promotes elite [39-11]
cav kills Greek cav at Ur [40-11]
cav kills Persian cav at Ur [41-11]
cav kills Greek knight at New Indus and promotes elite [42-11]

IBT : no losses this IBT [45-11]
Swordy Mountain : barracks -> rifle
Ganges : marketplace -> cav
New Jaipur : settler -> courthouse

5) 1450AD : elite cav kills Greek rifle at New Indus [46-11]
cav kills Persian cav at New Dacca [47-11]
elite war elephant kills Greek rifle at New Dacca [48-11]
elite cav kills Chinese cav at Babylon [49-11]
elite cav loses to a Chinese cav at Babylon [49-12]
cav kills Chinese cav at Babylon [50-12]
cav army kills a rifle at New Ganges [51-12]

IBT : Greeks want to talk
Chinese want to talk, too
2 losses 2 wins in the interturn [53-12]
Madras : cav -> barracks
Kolhapur : cav -> rifle
Bangalore : cav -> barracks
Indus : cav -> cav

6) 1455AD : cav kills Chinese cav at Babylon [54-13]
cav kills Greek cav at Babylon [55-13]
elite war elephant kills Persian cav at New Dacca [56-13]
cav kills Persian cav at New Dacca and promotes elite [57-13]
phant army kills Greek musket at New Dacca [58-13]
cav army takes back New Ganges [59-13]
elite cav kills Persian cav [60-13]
rush walls in New Ganges

IBT : Persia wants to talk
no losses, but 2 wins [62-13]
Delhi : cav -> cav
New Ganges : walls -> rifle

7) 1460AD : elite cav kills Greek rifle at New Hyderabad [63-13]
elite war elephant kills Persian longbow at New Dacca [64-13]
elite cav kills Chinese rifle at New Dacca and enslaves a Chinese settler [65-13]
elite cav kills Chinese rifle at New Dacca and enslaves another Chinese settler [66-13]
cav kills Greek knight at New Ganges and promotes elite [67-13]

IBT : no losses, but 2 wins [69-13]
Bombay : cav -> rifle
Lyons : rifle -> rifle
Hyderabad : duct -> barracks

8) 1465AD : elite cav kills Greek rifle at New Ganges [70-13]
cav kills Persian cav at New Dacca [71-13]
elite war elephant kills Persian cav [72-13]
elite cav kills Persian rifle at New Dacca [73-13]
elite cav kills Chinese cav at New Indus [74-13]
elite cav kills Chinese cav at New Indus [75-13]
cav kills hoplite at New Ganges [76-13]

IBT : we lose 2 galleons to Chinese frigates [76-15]
Bengal : cav -> cav
Pune : marketplace -> rifle

9) 1470AD : elite cav kills Chinese cav at New Ganges [77-15]
cav kills hoplite at New Ganges and enslaves a settler [78-15]
cav kills Chinese cav at New Dacca [79-15]
cav kills Persian rifle at New Hyderabad and promotes elite [80-15]
elite war elephant kills Aztec knight at New Dacca [81-15]
cav kills Persian cav [82-15]

IBT : no losses, but 2 kills [83-15]
a lot of Chinese cavs arrive at New Ganges
Madras : barracks -> rifle
Bangalore : barracks -> cav
Calcutta : rifle -> cav
Chittagong : cav -> cav
New Delhi : harbor : galleon

10) 1475AD : elite war elephant kills Persian cav at New Dacca [84-15]
elite cav kills Persian cav at New Dacca [85-15]
lose a cav to a Chinese cav at New Dacca [85-16]
reg cav kills Persian rifle at New Hyderabad [86-16]
elite cav kills Chinese cav at New Dacca [87-16]
phant army kills Chinese cav at New Dacca [88-16]
cav army kills Chinese cav at New Dacca [89-16]
cav army kills Chinese cav at New Dacca [90-16]
cav army kills Chinese cav at New Dacca [91-16]
elite cav kills Chinese cav at New Dacca [92-16]
lose a cav to a Chinese cav at New Dacca [92-17]
lose an elite cav to a Chinese rifle at New Dacca [92-18]
elite cav kills Aztec longbow at New Indus [93-18]
elite cav kills Aztec longbow at New Dacca [94-18]
cav kills Chinese rifle at New Dacca and promotes elite [95-18]

Ur riots as I pulled out a rifle from there last turn and forgot to hire a specialist.

It looks a little more secure now. The next leader should form a pillaging army.

After steam maybe we can go min research again, but I would go to replacable parts asap. arties will give us the opportunity to advance.

On to the next one. Have fun.

The save and a pic.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Tupac02_1475AD.SAV

Good job Markh! Nice recovery! I'll see what I can do for us...

Got it

Pre-Turn)

Everything looks as good as could be expected. Markh has left it all in good shape, move a rifle out of Ur to cover our exposed worker stack. Things look solid, steam in 4.
Whats my way of managing things? Goals of course!

Turnset Goals

- Resettle a dyes town.
- Either burn or recapture Teoutihuacan.
- Get another pillaging army
- Go a-pillagin
- Whatever else I can manage.

IBT- Kill a Greek Cav, a Greek Rifle and a Chinese Cav all at New Ganges. No losses. (3-0) A greek Hoplite pillages our road.
Karachi: Cavalry --> Cavalry
Dacca: Market --> Temple (it is size 11 and running 3 specialists. I want one of those citizens working!)

Turn 1) OK Lets see what I can do here!
uh... thats pathetic... our vaunted cannons cause a combined 2hp of damage... those little buggers couldnt hit a cows arse with a banjo! Thats really bad as I had to pull a lot of defensive cannons out of position so I could watch them fail utterly. Kill a Hoplite with an elite WE and then a rifle with an elite cav (5-0). Kill 2 Chinese Rifles, a chinese musket (capturing a settler and a catapult) and a Chinese Cav (9-0). Kill a trio of Persian Cavs the last one with an elite cav who wins flawlessly (still 5/5) and pops a leader! Huzzah! Pillaging army ho! Rename the Cav 'Booya!PowerBar!'
Instantly form an army. The hard bit seems to be finding rifles to fill it... Send the leader to New Indus and form the army, fill it with the vet rifle in the city and the one being used to cover the workers. Can only find 2 'free' rifles... Decide to use the previous defensive army as the pillagers (gotta find somethign to do with 2 muskets!). Kill a pair of rifles outside New Indus, but lack the troops to deal with the remaining rifle and cav (11-0).

Raise science to 100% to get Steam in 1 turn.

IBT- No attacks from Persians or Greeks although a LOT of guys show up. China attacks New Ganges with maybe a dozen cavalry. Every single one is redlined and retreats (not 1 kill!!!!!) but none of them even scratch our rifle. 3 Chinese Cavs get dropped off next to a city defended by a warrior... Steam comes in, set to electricity at 1 scientist, move lux slider back to 20% before any cities riot.
Teoutihuacan flips from Greece to Aztecs.
Delhi: cav-->cav
Jaipur: Cav-->cav
Lahore: rifle-->rifle

Turn 2) Ok lets lock and load, rock and roll. HOLY CRAP THERE ARE A LOT OF GUYS IN OUR TERRITORY!!!! I count 17 cavs, 3 spears, 4 settlers, 2 hoplites and 8 rifles. Youchies. Lets see what I can handle this turn. Start by killing the 3 chinese cavs on our mainland. Redline 2 cavs and a horse to be able to do it but no losses (14-0). To the main continent now. Well this time the cannons come up trumps (I scored 21 consecutive hits before the first 'artillery barrage failed'). Kill 12 of the cavs, 5 rifles and pop another leader (thats my 5th leader in my last 2 turnsets!) (31-0). Rename the cav 'TL's a lucky mofo'. Nothing to rush so it will form another army I suppose. As we will have cash soon (min sci run) we should be able to rush enough rifles to make it a pillaging army (only need 3 rifles). The area is cleared of anything that can attack this interturn.

IBT- Guys show up, no attacks. Karachi riots, dont bother with specialists as it will be fixed next turn.

Turn 3) Start by founding 'New Dye Town' To on the hill to claim a dyes source. Lucky us! Don't move the lux slider but fire a lot of specialists and get us up 2 +206gpt. Check diplo, we are down Communism on China and Persia, ahead of the Aztecs and level with Greece. Everyone with steam power has coal. :( Lots more guys have moved in so its a killin-time again. Cannons fire, cavalry and elephants charge and we emerge, once again, victorious losing just 1 vet cav. (45-1) This killing business isnt so hard but that one lost cavalry hurt us more than the 45 guys I've killed hurt them.

IBT- The only attack is at New Dye Town where our rifle kills a cav. (46-1)

Turn 4) Turns are already same old same old. Just killing fields. The western front in WW1 has nothing on this. We have moved, in the last few hundred years, about as far as an asmatic ant with some heavy shopping. Kill 11 cavalry, a hoplite and 2 rifles this turn without losses (60-1). Lots of guys still in our territory but the rest of our guys are redlined or on 2hp. It didn't help that I had to divert 4 cavs off with our 2 pillaging armies, i used redlined guys wehre possible. Capture a chinese settler btw. 4 cavs will arive next turn to replace those used in pillaging duty but we are short on rifles. I will rush them as cash becomes available for it.

IBT- Retreat two cavs but no kills in the interturn.
So...many...cavalry :eek:
Couple of rifle builds finish, New Dye Town gets walls.

Turn 5) I'm going to take a break here (not handing the save over, just pausing). you guys can add your input but mostly this game is just exhausting. Its taken me close to 2 hours to play these 5 turns because of all the thinking and planning of my counters. Start clearing out guys. Have killed 4 rifles and 6 cavs when I pop my 3rd leader of the turnset. Name him 'U need leaders... just ask me!'. Not sure what to do with him. Kill another 6 cavs and a rifle lose a cav. (77-2)

Ack... heres the save, not passing it on but guys I'm on the back foot here. I keep popping leaders but I dont have enough guys to stick in the armies :lol:. Maybe rush some troops with him? I want someone to make us a dotmap for our new core, the sooner we get a palace over here the better for everyone involved. McLman (or ne1) can you give me the Mapstat info for our empire with the palace in Babylon. yes thats right. babylon. That would make our first TWO rings around the FP ring 1, I want to know where that leaves us.

We have a spare leader in New Indus. Two pillaging armies in Persia but only 3 cavs (so 1 wont be able to handle railroaded stuff). I'm considering a defensive cavalry army (using the cavs taht have already popped leaders, at full health it would be a 20hp 6/3/3 unit. Thats not bad. Not sure if armies get bonus attack in vanilla although they do seem to win more battles losing less hp... dont know though....

Wish me luck when I continue. Holding the fort is easy and the only goal not yet acheived is Teoutihuacan but I don't see how I can go on the offensive without artillery and infantry but they are a way off yet.

For those interested heres the save. I havnt yet decided whether to rush another rifle or a cav on the new continent with our cash, I will do that before hitting enter. Also a trick I've been using to protect cities is to take the defender out of Ur. Cavalry cant reach it so they march across open land toward leaving them prime to be picked off by cavs. The greater range of artillery over cannons would make it even easier to deal with them then. Also I know, I know rifles are damn slow for pillaging but we already watched a cav army get attacked and killed, so far these guys have been given a wide berth so they are probalby safe until the arrival of tanks, probably not for many many years.

IBT-
Lose 4 slaves a cav an a rifle but kill 4 cavs (81-4)
Swordy Mountain: Rifle --> Rifle
New Indus: rifle --> rifle (yes i did rush it)
Ganges: Cavalry--> Cavalry

Turn 6) Well start in the same manner i left off, clearing out guys. Kill 6 cavs and 2 rifles (89-4). Pillaging armies get to work disconnecting Persopolis again. Not much else to do. Teoutihuacan is safe from us for now as I don't have enough troops to keep clearing out the area around us AND go on the offensive.

IBT- Greece founds Marathon in the former Aztec lands (dropped off from a ship). Kill 1 persian cav n 2 greek cavs. (92-4)

Turn 7) Raze the Greek City (Marathon) using our first cav army (redlined already tho) killing the 1 hoplite guard (93-4). Kill 3 chinese cavs and 2 persian cavs (98-4). Keep pillaging. The number of guys around our cities is dwindling. You can tell Persia is hurting from the pillaging already by virtue of the fact they are right next to us and yet are probably the weakest of the guys coming after us. China needs pillaging badly but a cav army would be attacked and a rifle army could take 20-odd turns just to get there!

IBT- Cannon in persopolis bombards one of our armies, chinese cav dies at New Hyderbad (99-4) a Greek Frigate sinks an empty galleon (99-5). Lots of Chinese rock up. We get about 8 cavs finished, 3 rifles finished and Dacca completes its temple (set to rifle)

Turn 8) Start by pillaging and Persopolis is now completely disconnected. Will look to cut off horse and/or saltpeter now. Start clearing guys out, using cannons I redline a bunch of guys and the first attack (with an elite War Elephant) pops my 4th leader of the turnset (4 in 7 turns is not bad at all! and to think at one point we were having serious debate about what to do with ONE leader :lol:). Not sure about this guy nowhere near enough guys to make an army with unless I want to use only reinfocements. Actually come to think of it I have 7 rifles on the way. Another pillaging army it is, although I wont fill him until next turn. Upgrade the Elite* WE to a cav. Amazing, give a man a clean uniform and a fresh horse and he is miracalulously healed! Clear out 8 more cavs and 2 rifles for no losses (109-5) and we'v cracked the 100 kills in a turnset barrier! Strangely enough that doesnt make me feel any better... :hmm:

IBT- Take down 2 persian cavs and a greek cav, and our galleon defeats a Greek Frigate (113-5) retreat 3 more greek cavs and 2 chinese cavs. No losses. Watch all the pretty swishy horses tails as the ride in 10,000 at a time :lol:

Turn 9) Form our 3rd pillaging army from reinforcements. Will send him after Greece. Pick off 7 cavs of various nationalities and a Chinese rifle (120-5). Oh yeah and pop my 5th leader of the turnset. Check diplo and we are down Industrialization to China, Greece and Persia. At 40% we could get Industialization in 14, at the same science we could get electricity in 25 which is only 8 turns better than at min (it was 9 turns difference when i first started working it). Is it worth changing and going for Industrialization? Would we be better off following the AI's research path so we arnt researching at 1st civ prices? I'm not sure, and I KNOW Espionage would be huge for us as we would be able to steal. I up science to 40% going for Electricity though. My plan = Electricity --> Rep parts --> Industrialization --> Esp.
Hopefully as the AI have Industrialization they'll start work on the US which will drop their production for a while. I'm wondering what to do with our leader. I'm considering sending him home to rush a bank or something, we dont want any more armies right now because we cant fill them. I think thats what I'll do, send him home. I'm reluctant to rush the palace until we have a purpose built new core on the new continent. Pick off 3 cavs and a musket, minimal fuss (124-5). Theres a big stack of Greek cavs sitting on a hill near Babylon and I couldnt attack and get back to the city so I'm gunna have to ride out that storm as it comes.
1 turn to come from me.

IBT- Retreat 4 Greek cavs at Babylon.

Turn 10) Easy turn here. Pick off all the redlined cavs, use cannons to redline some more, pick them off too. Pick off 3 rifles capture a cannon, once again no losses (136-5) also capture a settler.
Get workers railroading tiles on the new continent, I'm trying to get us frictionless movement there.

Post-Turn- I've also started the skeletal rail system back home. Its not great but it'll do for now, but keep working on it till we can get a rifle to the pick up point in a single turn. We have a leader in hyderbad on the main continent, its our highest commerce city and doesnt have a bank. It will finish its rifle in the interturn then start it on a bank and rush it. Thats the best use for that leader. We have heaps of elites so should continue to pop leaders. We have exposed worker stacks but they cant be attacked this interturn, we'll have to wait till next turn to see if they'll need cover. I'll do up a dot map for our new core soon, though naturally it is up for debate. I feel quitely confident abotu handing over the save. We have a very solid defence provided we keep casualties down and keep using cannons to redline stuff before attacking. I've turned up research now and Electricity is due in 22. That will drop as the AI starts to research it. I have an army sitting on a hill between New Ganges and New something-or-other, it is going to Teoutihuacan to burn it. Can be there in 2 turns.

Final kill rate 136-5

Ok I'll add some more stuff when I post my dotmap.

Roster

tupaclives - just played
Lboogie13 - UP
McLman - on deck
Markh

I'm picking it up now. Will post later tonight

Oops no save yet!

The front

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/3592/picture57zw.jpg

My proposed dot map. The middle dot is the palace city obviously.

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/5288/picture63fa.jpg

and of course the save.

I have the save for real this time. Should post in a few hours

Ok, so it took me over 3 hours for my simple turns but here it is. By the way following tupaclives in this game is totally sweet and awesome. :p Thanks for leaving me a road map for every turnset.

Hit enter and away we go ....

IBT Greeks have Ironclads lurking to the north of core, Chinese move a ton of cavs outside new indus

1530 - Rush bank in Hyderabad using tupaclives suggestion. Founded Capital City on new continent (using tupaclives dot map of course) :goodjob: , start bombing the crap out of Chinese cavs, cannons are being fired the 154th Blind & Drunken Irishmen regiment (no offense to my Irish friends, St. Patty's day and all) so we don't redline anyone but yello line a lot of units. Lose 3 cavs clearing out all units

IBT - green, pink and blue units oh my...a rainbow:crazyeye: Okay, enough silliness. Chinese still hitting outside Babylon with ships, Chinese land 1 cav outside Ellipi, Ur riots

1535 - Founded Delhi 2, pillage horses outside Nineveh (persian) attack Teot. defended by 2 lousy spearman, burn it and the Great wall to the ground, clear more units outside new indus, 154th regiment still stinking it up with the cannons :mad:

IBT - greeks attack Babylon with about 10 cavs, kills 1 defending, elite promo to vet cav

1540 - not only is order restored in Ur but they celebrate WLTKD, lose one cav clearing out units around Babylon

IBT - Greeks kills one rifle defending New Indus, Chinese land 4 cavs outside Ellipi

1545 - founded Bombay 2, the Irishmen sober up and get surgery for their cataracks and redline all chinese cavs, even get the pike in Ur to kill a cav (flawless)

IBT - Persians send a huge wave of cavs at New Indus, many cavs stop short, we defend 6-0, 1-2 against Chinese cavs though

1550 - zzzz (clearing units, nothing interesting)

IBT - 2 greek ironclads appear up north

1555- Attack Hamadan (persian) city near New Indus, defended by conscript rifles and 1 regular cav, lose 1 cav but burn city to the ground, take 3 gold and 5 slaves :ar15:

start pillaging coal in mountains near Nineveh (persian)

IBT - Persains kill rifle I accidently left outside New ganges, kill 1 rifle protecting slaves and take them back, greek ironclads bombing up north

1560 - Ganges riots, finish pillaging coal, attack Antioch, lose 2 cavs attacking but burn it, capture 1 slave, clearing units outside babylon, lose 1 cav in the process

IBT - Greeks attack New Ganges with a boat load of cavs, we lose 4 cavs and 1 rifle, surprisingly no leaders popped up and only a few promos despite 10-5. Reg galleon killed by Greek vet caravel lurking in shipping lane

1565 - clear out remaining greek cavs, capture greek settler

IBT - Chinese destroy improvements outside babylon, greeks destroy improvements in northern core

1570 - lose elite cav attacking persian rifle, attack again and capute cannon, capture chinese settler, attack and kill 2 rifles defending Pasagrade (persians) with cav army

IBT - the usual influx of enemy troops

1575 - clear out units, the Irishmen are really pissed and shooting accurately :spank:, kill 2 more rifles in Pasagrade and I've only lost 2 HP with my cav army

What happens next is crazy. I should sumbit this as the screen shot of the day. Probably the last defender in Pasagrade is a conscript rifle not even fortified. Naturally, I attack. Instead of explaining, I will just show you

119486

:wallbash: [pissed]

Sufficied to say, my poor cats went running for cover when the profanities starting spewing out of my mouth.

Post game - I started the ring according to tupaclives dotmap. I think there is only one city that needs founding (and one that needs abandoning). I wasn't sure if I was supposed to start it yet or not. In any event, the AI never even got close to that area.

I couldn't believe it but I got no leaders. Tupaclives must have used them all up. I had a ton of elite wins but nada. The debate over when to rush the palace will have to wait I guess.

In all, the flow keeps coming but it was all easily handled. Other than a few exceptions, the AI sent most 2 or 3 units at a time. with the cannons even when they had a stack I was able to pick them off before they could do any damage. More reinforcements are on the way. IMHO, I think it is time to start attacking. Anyway here's the save

119488

And for all you lurkers

119487

I smell tanks.

Great turnset Lboogie13, pity about the cav army, we'll probably lose it in the interturn :(

3 cities left in the dotmap, and we should be able to jump a palace to capital city next turnset :)

@Madviking - I seriously doubt that. At the end of my turnset they AI were up Industrialization and communism on us. They had only just acquired Industrialization near the end of my turnset. As long as we keep warring tanks are a loooooong way off

Looks good. First Persian city razed. Pity about Pasargadae and the army. Let tupac take the save for a turn to get us another army.:lol:

Yeah I'm really sorry about our cav army guys. I mean a nearly full strength army against an unfortified conscript anything is usually a easy victory. I knew rifles were good defenders but this one takes the cake easily.

I have really been learning a lot but here is another newbie question...how come when cavs are on the attack they sometimes retreat and sometimes fight to the death against the same type of unit?

Fortified rifles in size 12 cities are tough even for a cav army.

There is a probability regarding retreating for fast movers. I do not know the exact figure and I think the attacker will not retreat if it reduces at least 2 HPs from the defender. I am not 100% sure, but I think I have never seen a fast mover retreat in that scenario.

Roster

tupaclives
LBoogie13 - just played
McLman - UP
Markh - On deck