http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/5281/fog9ak.png

Faces of God
A Civ4 Religion mod by Sevo

Version: 1.02


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Brief Version Info
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1.02-Fixed Hall of Idols error, python error
1.01-Fixed a couple of debugging code popups I forgot about
1.01-Changed martyr behavior

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Introduction
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Civ 4's inclusion of religion has added a great deal, but the game designers chose to make all of the religions exactly the same in terms of game benefits to avoid offending players and/or playing into sterotypes regarding various religions. But we all know that religions are, in point of fact, very different, and many of us were seeking ways to give flavor to our civilization's religions. This mod is an attempt to bridge the gap between offending people and making gameplay more fun by allowing religions to create an identity for themselves. Now you can have religious crusades, holy monuments that spread influence, religious courts, and even terrorism. Any religion can have any of these attributes--it's up to you to define how your religion will be practiced!


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About the Mod
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This mod introduces 7 new religious wonders, 9 new units, 7 new religious buildings, and a new way to enhance or change game religions to give them personality. My personal goal, as with all my mods, was to maintain the basic rules and gameplay of the core game, but add more choice and more customization for the player.

It works as follows:

1) Religions are founded the same way they always were--by being the first to reach a specific technology. I may change this in the future, but for now it stays.

2) Once you spread a religion--ANY religion--to more than 60% of your cities and establish that religion as your official State Religion, you will be granted a Holy Founder for that religion. The Founder arrives in response to the prayers of your people as they seek guidance as to how they should behave in accordance with their religion. Note that it is NOT necessary to found the religion or control the Holy City. You can pick up Taoism from your civ next door, spread it around and change your state religion to Taoism, and a Taoist founder will appear. Later in the game if you pick up Christianity you can spread it, change your state religion, and a Christian founder will appear. This significantly decreases the importance of being the first to get a religion. Anyone with religion can get the benefits of a Holy Wonder. Furthermore, there's no longer a need to get a specific religion for specific benefits as with some of the other religious mods. Any religion will do, you just have to define it.

3) The Holy Founder can go to any city in your empire and oversee the contstruction of one of the seven Holy Wonders. Each of these Holy Wonders, described in detail below, grants benefits and drawbacks to the religion throughout your empire.

4) If you change to another state religion your people will destroy the holy wonder during the revlotion and all of its effects will vanish. If your new religion is adequately spread, however, you might receive a new founder the next time your new religion reaches a new city.

The idea here is that your people will practice their religion according to their specific beliefs. If the state changes its religion, and the people embrace the new religion, they will change the way they behave as well.


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New Buildings
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The Holy Wonders
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***** Cathedral of Vengence *****

This building is essentially a stronghold for religious zeal. The city in which it is built becomes a bane to all non-believers. Called martyrs by their people, terroists by their enemies, they can move undetected through the lands of their enemies and create havoc. The city will never grow weary of war with their holy enemies, for God has decreed they must be wiped off the face of the earth. The cost is high, however, as disorder created in the city is high and the toll on the economy and infrastructure of the city, and indeed the rest of the empire, is high. The zealots are not supported by the State, at least, not officially...

-Requires Priesthood
-Local Benefits: -100% war war weariness, 100% defense, 2 free priests +1 priest spot
-Local Costs: -50% science, cash, culture
-Empire Costs: -20% Great person rate, 200% anarchy length, -1 pop/city, -1 trade route
-Empire Costs: +1 unhapy, +1 uck
-Units Allowed: Sleeper cell, Martyr, Bandits


***** Sacred Archive *****

The priests of this religion take a scientific and educational view of the world. It is their holy mission to learn about the world given to them by God and to share what they learn with others. All of their holy buildings will add to their mission. Their dedication to science, however, comes with a cost, as they tend to produce more unhealthiness in the cities in which they reside. Also, there is a small decrease in military production since resources are shifted towards scientific endeavors.

-Requires a Library
-Local Benefits: +50% science, +2 free scientists
-Local Costs: +1 uck
-Empire Benefits: All state religion buildings +3 science
-Empire Costs: +1 uck/city, -10% military production


***** Garden Of Divinity *****

This religion is based on closeness to nature, living in harmony with the world, and the cultivation of the earth. They believe that the Earth is (the) God(s) charge unto us and we must care for her and ourselves. We should be fruitful and multiply. This religion will encourage expansion and big cities. The rapid growth decreases military training, however, since there is faster turnover. As a result, units are less experienced.

-Requires 1: Corn, Sugar, Wheat, Rice, Banana
-Empire Benefits: +2 happy, +2 healthy all cities. Priests produce 1 bread.
-Empire Costs: -4 experience points all units


***** Religious Judiciary *****

The men and women of this religion have become the judical class of the society. Income is increased as taxation and religious donation become one and the same, and all religious buildings increase income. Furthermore, the people may embrace any legal civic they choose. The downside is that personal expression is discouraged, decrease cultural growth.

-Requires Courthouse
-Local Benefits: +100% gold, 2 merchants allowed
-Empire Benefits: State religion buildings +3 gold, allows all Legal Civics
-Empire Costs: -25% culture all cities. State Religious buildings provide no culture.


***** Holy Crusade *****

The people of this religion are focused on the conversion and/or destruction of non-believers, but unlike the Cathedral of Venegence, the cause is supported by the State. The religion becomes a military, training the holy for rightous war with its enemies. The units produced are adept and penetrating enemy lands and attacking cities in the desire to bring them salvation. The empire is more patient with war, but less focused on forward progress in technology.

-Requires at least 4 cities
-Local Benefits: 1 priest allowed, +50% military production
-Local Costs: +100% maintenance
-Empire Benefits: Crusader barracks in all cities (to produce units), +2xp/unit
-Empire Benefits: -50% war weariness, 20% defense all cities
-Empire Costs: -25% great people birth rate, -20% science
-Can build Crusader Units


***** Hall of Idols *****

This is a religion focused on the construction of idols and great works dedicated to the God or Gods. They excel at creating Wonders, and the more resources they have to work with, the greater their works will be. The city that the Hall of Idols is built in becomes dedicated to great works, forgoing military production and diverting most of its resources to production of idols

-Requires a Forge
-Local Benefits: +25% hammers with each: gold, silver, marble, stone, gems, ivory
-Local Costs: -75% gold & science in this city, -50% military and spaceship production
-Empire Benefits: +1 hammer all priests


***** Religious Monument *****

Unlike the Idolators, the supplicants of this religion are focused not only on the construction of great works, but on all aspects of religious culture. Throughout the empire culture is boosted, and great people are more common as personal gifts are encouraged and nutured. War, however, is looked upon as a crude vulgarity and is poorly tolerated by the people.

-Local Benefits: +50% culture
-Empire Benefits: +50% great people, +1 free specialist, +1 gold/priest, +10% culture
-Empire Benefits: +3 culture per State Religion Building
-Empire Costs: +100% War Weariness, -25% city defense
-Can Train Holy Artisan


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Normal Buildings
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***** Religious Village *****

Like temples or monastaries, one of these can be built for each religion in a city (e.g., Jewish village, Hindu village, etc.) This represents a small community of the religious followers living together and sharing their common bond. This increases happiness in the city in many ways.

-Requires: Guilds
-Cost 180
-Benefits: +1 happiness, +1 happiness if state religion, -20% war weariness, +3 culture
-Will gain any benefits granted to state religion buildings by holy wonders


***** Crusader Barracks *****

These are gained by a civ with a Holy Crusade, and they allow the construction of the crusader units. They cannot be built.



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New Units
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Holy Founder -- (one for each religion). These units will appear when the State Religion is spread to more than 60% of an empire. They can build the seven Holy Wonders above, assuming they have they other requirements.

Guardian -- [Crusader Unit] This unit is a more powerful archer than the basic unit. It has a combat value of 4 (instead of 3) and two first strikes. There is no military support required for crusader units.

Champion -- [Crusader Unit] This unit has a combat value of 8, an improvement over swordsmen thanks to superior equipment. As part of their dedication and training for carrying salvation to the stronghold of the enemy, they have a base city attack of +20%.

Crusader -- [Crusader Unit] This is a superior "knight" unit. Like the knight, the base combat value is 10. However, the Crusader has a base 20% withdrawl rate and a +15% city attack rate.

Mobile Artillery -- [Crusader Unit] Made possible by the zeal of the crusaders moving it, mobile artillery can move 2 squares per turn instead of the base 1. This allows it to keep pace with tanks and other armored units penetrating enemy territory.

Fist of God -- [Crusader Unit] This is a modern armor unit equipped for Crusade work. It is more powerful than its normal counterpart, has a +10% city attack, and can bombard city defenses on its own, although somewhat slowly. A division of these units is an awe-inspiring power on the battlefield.

Sleeper Cell -- [Vengence Unit] This is an early unit that acts like a spy. The sleeper cell can move invisibily through enemy territory and explore. If it settles in a city, it can monitor production and attempt to sabotage it for a cost.

Bandits -- [Venegence Unit] The bandit is a unique unit to the Cathedral of Venegance. When a bandit leader is created he can build a depot on any available square in the empire. The depot will decrease food production. Once the depot is built, a bandit will replace the bandit leader. The bandit can move into neutral or enemy territory and sit on any improved resource he finds to steal a portion of the production. Back home, his depot plot will gain the resource as he ships it back. (In game terms, the bandit's depot plot gains the resource the bandit is on and grants the civ "access" to that resource). If the bandit is lost his depot becomes useless. If the depot is destroyed the bandit must rebuild it. A civ is limited to 3 bandits.


Martyr -- [Vengence Unit] A martyr is a unit willing to trade his life if it means harming his religious enemies. His belief that he will be rewarded by his God(s) for his sacrifice drives his will. The martyr can move undetected into enemy territory. Once inside of a city, he needs several turns to establish contacts and plan an operation. When the act is commited, it will spread anger and unhappiness through the target city, frightening citizens, many of whom will refuse to work for several turns (+1-3 unhappiness in city for 8 turns). There is a small (20%) chance that the city will actually panic and revolt for a few turns. There is an even smaller chance (around 5%) that the damage done will kill a significant portion of the population (-1 pop in city), in addition to sending it into a panic. I have seen the AI use these units, and they tend to target your larger cities! You've been forewarned!

Holy Artisan -- [Monument Unit] A holy artisan is a scaled down great artist. He can be created in the city with the Holy Monument and can go to other cities and create works of art to increase culture.



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The AI
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My testing has seen the AI build all seven of these wonders and utilize them effectively. You're going to have benefits, but so will they. Don't be surprised to see crusader units out and about. Unfortunately, they don't handle some of the terrorist units correctly--namely the bandits (they do fine with the sleeper cell and martyrs). I'm still working on a way to improve the AI handling of these units.

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For Other Modders
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I've tried to make this easier to incorporate into other mods than it might otherwise have been. All of the python functions are included in a seperate FacesOfGod.py file that can be simply copied into another mod. Then you just have to copy the proper lines into the EventManager.py file for the interrupts.

Please note that I'm using the .setScriptData() and .getScriptData() functions (for CyUnit classes and CyPlayer classes) to hold information between saves and loads, and I'm using an array in the FacesOfGod class itself to hold some info, too. You don't have to understand what that means, necessarily, but you DO need to know that if you are debugging your own changes this will create some strange behavior. Let me explain:

If you do an in-game reload of your python modules--for example, you alt-tab to the desktop, modify a python file, then alt-tab back to the game, and the pop-up "Reloading Python Modules" comes up, then any saved data in the FacesOfGod class was just lost during the reload. Suicide bombers will be "off the clock" and fail to detonate, and the script initialization may be lost so you may see more error messages from my code than you should. Don't be bothered by it if you haven't done anything to change my code. When you reload or start a new game the errors should stop and everything will work again.

As for the XML most of my changes I've included as _SevoModAdded.xml or something, so you can immediately find what you're looking for. If a seperate file isn't included, any changes are at the bottom of the target file. (FYI, I made several changes to names and naming conventions, so some of the unit names are backwards, namely the martyr and the bandit. I apologize if this creates problems!)

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Notes
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This represents the first release of this mod and bugs are expected. I've done a great deal of playtesting and within the limits of my one-man effort everything seems to work. This does not mean everything actually works! This mod is big and there are a lot of Python functions. Please let me know if you find any bugs or abnormal behavior that you think needs fixing. I'll patch bugs as quickly as I can, so check back in for updates and patches.

Also, it's difficult to play out seven full games and test all the possible uses of these units and wonders. Feedback regarding gameplay is greatly appreciated and comments are welcome!

I don't have any translations for any of the text. If someone out there is motivated and translates the text entries into their own tounge, send me a copy and I will gladly incorporate it into the mod. Note that for the sake of speed I have coded some of the english text directly into the python functions. I'd like to change this in a future release as well if there is sufficient demand.

I'm not 100% happy with the way Martyrs currently work. I'd like them to be able to do damage when not at war "officially", but I've foreseen problems with various implimentations I might have taken. I'll be working on this, but ideas are welcome. Along the same line, bandits don't currently hurt the civ they are "stealing" from, but there also isn't any way for a civ to remove a stealing bandit. That's something else I'll be thinking about.

Other future designs include more custom religious units for the various flavors, and perhaps another flavor or two if any good ones pop up.

You may freely incorporate any or all of this mod as you'd like into other mods of your own making, I only ask for credit for the original work. I've tried to make it easy for other modders by including files with ONLY the added info where appropriate. If not copied to a separate file, they are always at the bottom of a given file with a blank line to demarcate the new info. It should make cutting and pasting into new mods easier. Also, all of the python functions are in their own file, you just have to add the appropriate function calls to the event manager. (FYI, I made several changes to names and naming conventions, so some of the unit names are backwards, namely the martyr and the bandit. I apologize if this creates problems!)

I hope you all enjoy this mod! It was a lot of fun to create!

-Sevo (sevotastic@yahoo.com)


DOWNLOAD LINK:
Faces of God ver 1.02 (FileFront) (http://files.filefront.com/FacesOfGod_102zip/;4711533;;/fileinfo.html)
Faces of God ver 1.02 (RapidShare) (http://rapidshare.de/files/12346007/FacesOfGod-1.02.zip.html)

Screenshots of some of the new units

http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/2592/units0xn.png

Oh my goodness, i can't wait to sink my teeth in this. gotta finish up my other game first (and get some Madden in before the SB) :)

Quick note, and i know i shouldn't criticize something i haven't tired, but should the suicide bombers hurt ALL the units a square? that sounds like they could be unbalancing. Besides, most suicide bombers attack the population and infrastructure, not units (although it does certainly happen). Again, i'll have to play it :)

What about the Hand of God as a catapult?
Looks very nice, will give it a go.

Will try it out. Anyway, it sounds like you having put much thoughts and efforts into it!

Oh my goodness, i can't wait to sink my teeth in this. gotta finish up my other game first (and get some Madden in before the SB) :)

Quick note, and i know i shouldn't criticize something i haven't tired, but should the suicide bombers hurt ALL the units a square? that sounds like they could be unbalancing. Besides, most suicide bombers attack the population and infrastructure, not units (although it does certainly happen). Again, i'll have to play it :)


They don't hurt ALL units. They do some collateral damage. However, I tend to agree with you and would ideally like them to destroy buildings and hurt population. I'm just trying to conceive of a way to do this that the AI will be able to utilize.

They don't hurt ALL units. They do some collateral damage. However, I tend to agree with you and would ideally like them to destroy buildings and hurt population. I'm just trying to conceive of a way to do this that the AI will be able to utilize.

That's good to hear becuase your synopsis states His attack will cause grave damage to all units in the plot, but he will be killed in the process.

I was thiking it would be difficult to 'attack' the buildings or population. Perhaps destroy some food? I don't know python (just some c++ from 10 years ago), so i'm not sure i can help code.:cry:

Sevo, very well thought out mod. I see it incorporates quite a few of the forums ideas into this mod. Looking forward to checking out the guts of it.

jeha, what a cool work!!!!!!!!!!! :goodjob:
thats great :) i love it

Will this mod work with your mega mod Sevo?

Will this mod work with your mega mod Sevo?

Not "out of the box", so to speak. I'm going to post a version of the SevoMod shortly that contains many updates and fixes. When I do that, I'll also post a second copy that has this mod merged with it, for those who want to play with both. I designed some aspects of this mod with the SevoMod balances in mind, so they should go together nicely.

This looks to be a good mod, but I'm not sure I like the "Fist of God" unit.
I mean, it's just a tank; why should it get a religious bonus? Wouldn't it be better as a free promotion you get with the Crusade Wonder?

Oh no here it goes:rolleyes:

Anyway, Sevo my question is about the bandit. I've looked over your mod and I am curious. Is this an XML only thing or is python required to do the actual leech?:cool:

Wow very nice, been waiting for the ability to customize religions more. Although I do think there should be some predifend things about religion. This just seems to shape the "mood" of how religions act towards others.

Just my 2 cents, nive work though, cant wait to give it a try.

Kushan

very good idea this mod! great work! :worship:
would you include this one into Sevomod-2.XX?

thx a lot

I'll admit I haven't tried this mod yet, but it looks promising.

I do have 1 surface impression, which I think would be worth noting: the graphic for the martyr, a worker, and the graphic for the sleeper cell, a settler, should be switched, at the very least. It makes perfect sense for a sleeper to look like a normal worker, not a settler. Of course, it doesn't make any sense for the martyr to look like a settler anymore than it does for him to look like a worker, but at least this graphic switch makes ONE of them look right. At some point I imagine that the worker/settler graphics would be changed, although to be honest if you make the sleeper look like a worker it would work fine and not need to be replaced later on.

stgelven asked: would you include this one into Sevomod-2.XX?

I have a more general question related to your beautiful Sevomod: would it be possible to incorporate -- maybe with a switching system? -- other mods into it?
For example, there is a nice mod by Superciv with lots of new civs. Is there a way to get it to work together with this Religious mod, or with Sevomod?
thank you.

I have a more general question related to your beautiful Sevomod: would it be possible to incorporate -- maybe with a switching system? -- other mods into it?

sevomod allready include other mods, in fact the sevomod is a kind of best of from civfanatics.

This looks great Sevo, to be honest I'm an awe of the sheer scale of the thing, kudos to you.
The thing that caught my eye the most is the bandit unit, great concept. It would be great if the bandit were to take resource away from the civ he's stealing from, and if there was a way for that civ to detect the bandit and hunt him down, but as you said the AI needs to be able to use it so if you can figure it out great, if not it's still great. :goodjob:

:boggle: This is awesome Sevo! I can't wait to play a game with!

Question about the Martyr... can't you use spys as models for them attacking without war?

Wow simply amazing

This looks to be a good mod, but I'm not sure I like the "Fist of God" unit.
I mean, it's just a tank; why should it get a religious bonus? Wouldn't it be better as a free promotion you get with the Crusade Wonder?

I'm going to defend my thinking on this one. Yes, it's just a tank. But it's operated by religious fanatics who are determined to convert or destroy the enemy. I suppose you could argue the bombardment, but added strength and city attack come from the determination of the men inside to finish the job.

Also, it's a game and I'm having fun with it. The unit was a neat concept and I liked the idea of a "modern" crusader inside a tank carrying the holy war to the enemy in the modern age.

Sevo, Anyway, Sevo my question is about the bandit. I've looked over your mod and I am curious. Is this an XML only thing or is python required to do the actual leech? Thx

Wow, this is just the kind of thing I was waiting for for religion! Nice one!

I'll admit I haven't tried this mod yet, but it looks promising.

I do have 1 surface impression, which I think would be worth noting: the graphic for the martyr, a worker, and the graphic for the sleeper cell, a settler, should be switched, at the very least.

Yeah...here's my thought there. The sleeper looks like "civilian" population as the settler unit, and it sits in the city, so there you have it. The martyr, well, I just wanted him to look like an average working guy, hence the modern worker unit. We'll have more fun with it when we can do modelling and whatnot.

Oh no here it goes:rolleyes:

Anyway, Sevo my question is about the bandit. I've looked over your mod and I am curious. Is this an XML only thing or is python required to do the actual leech?:cool:

You *definitely* need Python to make the bandit work. That was my most complicated addition to this mod, especially since the python has to keep track of which plots belong to which bandit and save that info between games, keep track of whether improvements are lost, yadda yadda. To leech the unit you'd have to copy the sections from the FacesOfGod.py that deal with him (OnImprovementBuilt, onUnitMove, onEndGameTurn, and onUnitLost, if I'm not missing any) and incorporate them into your event manager.


:boggle: This is awesome Sevo! I can't wait to play a game with!
Question about the Martyr... can't you use spys as models for them attacking without war?

Thanks! You know, after thinking about how I might make a martyr work for weeks I think I've got an idea, naturally right after I posted my first release of this mod. But the current AI will naturally send "Spy" units to enemy cities to monitor production, at least based on what I've seen playing in the world builder. If I give the martyr the same AI settings as the Spy unit, the AI will automatically send it to cities. Then I could just code the martyr to blow himself up when he reaches a city and have any one of a number of things happen. I'm going to try this out tonight and see how it goes, but I suspect the AI will catch right on. The AI won't have any sort of coordinated efforts since it won't truly 'understand' what it's doing, but it does tend to select the largest cities for spying so my guess is that you'll find your largest cities being hit with suicide bombers. Man that would be aggrevating, especially if you didn't know who was sending them. My one concern was that if a martyr unit passed through a city on his way to another he might blow up, but I might have a workaround. We'll see.

wow sevo - its very impressive work
youve done.

bravo!


i cant wait for your new sevomod+faces of god
i cross my fingers that it will be till the weekend :) when i have time tp play ...

your the man sevo!!!

:eek: I think my first version included a piece of python code with test stuff in it! Hahaha. Figures. Anyway, if you notice a thunk and a bunch of digits popping up between turns, just ignore it, it's all in your head. Or download my new post with the upgraded martyrs and a fix.

Martyrs have been changed! I must be getting better at this python stuff because I coded this in a few hours after work today.

Now you build your martyrs per usual, then send them to an enemy city. Once in the city they'll wait 3 turns while they set up contacts and plan their op. After the 3 turn wait, they blow themselves up and cause anger in the target city (it'll basically add 1-3 unhappy faces for about the next 8 turns). Doesn't sound like much but it could be crippling if used right. There is about a 1 in 5 chance that the city actually revolts out of panic for a few turns, and there's around a 1 in 25 chance that enough people die to drop the population by one point (in addition to revolt and all that). (multiple uses are cumulative!) If used en masse, a group of martyrs could cause a pretty significant slowdown of production and progress in a neighboring civ.

Also, my playtesting tonight has demonstrated that the AI will use the martyrs correctly and effectively. They come straight at your biggest cities and [pissed] bam!

This is great Sevo. However, I enjoy some aspects of this mod like the Martyr. What parts of the .py code needs to be copied where to just intergrate the Marytr into an exsisting personal mod. I have my own religion setup that I want to keep, I just want the Martyr unit and its functions.:D

Sevo,

Awesome mod, it's the first I've downloaded and can't wait to try it out!!

Since I haven't done any mods as of yet, is it possible to use this mod in a lan multiplayer game? Do I just need to change info in the config file, or is it not possible? Thanks, look forward to playing!

-m.

Sevo,

Awesome mod, it's the first I've downloaded and can't wait to try it out!!

Since I haven't done any mods as of yet, is it possible to use this mod in a lan multiplayer game? Do I just need to change info in the config file, or is it not possible? Thanks, look forward to playing!

-m.

Well, it hasn't been tested for multiplayer, so give it a try and let me know what happens! Theoretically it should work for MP and I was working with MP in mind...but like I said I did some funky stuff with python that might cause bumps. Please let me know the outcome of any MP games and if there are problems I can try to troubleshoot them. Some of these units would be fun for MP.

This is great Sevo. What parts of the .py code needs to be copied where to just intergrate the Marytr into an exsisting personal mod. I have my own religion setup that I want to keep, I just want the Martyr unit and its functions.:D

Yeah...the martyr really only uses two sections in the FacesOfGod.py file: the "OnUnitMove()" section, specifically the "OnMartyrMove()" subsection, which you could cut and use seperately, and the "runMartyrList()". Also, you have to place calls to these functions in the appropriate places in whatever event manager you're using, and be sure to include the __init__() function, specifically the self.martyrWatch=[] line! I don't mean to make it sound hard--It's not really that complicated but some of these units took some trickery to make work...with a little trial and error you can figure it out.

Why do I keep getting the following error:
http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/4790/error4fq.th.png (http://img66.imageshack.us/my.php?image=error4fq.png)

Dude.... fantastic work... do you ever sleep?


-=R=-

hey lordroy.... dont get sevo any ideas in the head
about sleeping.....

he has to merge sevomod now...:)

Really cool idea. I have been contemplating making changes to the religious system myself, but I never thought of this. Really good stuff. Definitely thinking outside the box. Hope you don't mind if I utilize some of these concepts myself.

Yeah...the martyr really only uses two sections in the FacesOfGod.py file: the "OnUnitMove()" section, specifically the "OnMartyrMove()" subsection, which you could cut and use seperately, and the "runMartyrList()". Also, you have to place calls to these functions in the appropriate places in whatever event manager you're using, and be sure to include the __init__() function, specifically the self.martyrWatch=[] line! I don't mean to make it sound hard--It's not really that complicated but some of these units took some trickery to make work...with a little trial and error you can figure it out.

Ok, I will be honest. I am more than proficient with XML but python is a struggle. I am more than sure that I am not the only one that will want to be able to use this unit without the rest of the awesome game altering stuff.

Maybe a little step by step guide on exactly how to implement this gem into our own game is in order. For instance when you say "Also, you have to place calls to these functions in the appropriate places in whatever event manager you're using, and be sure to include the __init__() function, specifically the self.martyrWatch=[] line!"

This was helpful, but honestly I have no idea where to place the calls in the event manager etc..:lol: Now, I know you are busy and this is not a priority for you, but I think it is something to consider.:D

Sevo, this looks absolutely awesome.
That said, I have some thoughts about the mod, even though I haven't played it yet. (I will try it out in a few days I hope.)
First of all, it looks like the Crusade wonder is grossly overpowered compared to its costs. I may be mistaken, seeing as I only read about the mod without playing it, but this is my impression.
Second of all, one thing I imagine would be a great addition is the integration of the Religious civics with this religious flavor system. Certain benefits should be on or off according to the Religious civics you're using, and perhaps some of the wonders should be destroyed if you ever select Free Religion (or even Free Speech or Emancipation or Universal Sufferage in some cases.) Surely the violent flavor wonders should not work without Organized Religion or Theocracy.
Another thing I was thinking was that there should be a certain focus on the way each flavor spreads its religion. Perhaps, for instance, the Crusade flavor should bring the state religion into whatever city you conquer and have a random chance to kick out each of the religions already there (except for ones founded there). And perhaps with the Archive flavor, whenever you trade a tech to a rival every city of their has a 1 in 5 (or 8) chance of receiving your state religion. Maybe the Garden could spread your religion in rival cities when you trade a rival one of the Garden's food resources? And then of course the Idols and the Monuments flavors should just outright increase your state religion's natural spread. There are a great many combinations of spread bonuses that can be added to the different flavors.
Then of course there is the related issue of how each flavor combats the heathens at home and maybe abroad as well. Some flavors should simply have a natural tendency to kick out heathen religions in towns that share their faith. Some flavors should reduce the chance of another religion spreading to their religion's city. Some flavors should give you an inquisitor unit, like a reverse missionary, with a chance to kick one non-holy-city religion that is not their religion out of a city.
Lastly, a tiny nitpick - isn't 1 in 5 too much of a chance for revolts in martyr-struck cities? Just take a look at real-life Israel... We have "martyrs" blowing up here all over the place for decades now (though admittedly mostly in the last 15 years) and there hasn't been anything resembling a revolt yet. I know the scale is different, but still, 1 in 5? It should, imho, be at least 1 in 8, if not more than 1:12...
Anyhow, I hope my thoughts can help improve this already awesome-looking mod. Keep up the great work. :)

Looks like a great mod, and I'll probably install it later. However, I do have one concern: Is there any way to defend against the martyrs and such? After all, in reality, nations have security forces to deal with problems like these; anything to that extent available in the mod?

Nace Mod, a new ideea.

a smal critc...

your Hall of Idols is nonsens for me.
150% max bonus production, in a citty whit 1 citisen(more not posible -75% foot), a citty whit 11 citisen have more production.
Mybe your give more in all citty bonus...
+1 production for prist ist not big to hold a citty down to 1 citisen.

have a good day, and make more nace mod.

Why do I keep getting the following error:
http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/4790/error4fq.th.png (http://img66.imageshack.us/my.php?image=error4fq.png)


Ouch. Okay...first bug. :cry: I've been trying to get rid of this one and I know what's generating it, but my attempts to fix it thus far have failed. (Stupid array just isn't initializing for some reason). Lemmie work on it.

Wow. This mod is just so damn cool. I've always thought religion should have mre of an effect on the game, and this just helps with that :D. The only other religion mod I know of though is the Realistic Religions by abbamouse, I think... is it abbamouse?

Should't there be Assassin units included?

Okay--Going to tackle these all at once. Long post.

Dude.... fantastic work... do you ever sleep?
-=R=-

Yes. On Thursdays. ;)


Really cool idea. I have been contemplating making changes to the religious system myself, but I never thought of this. Really good stuff. Definitely thinking outside the box. Hope you don't mind if I utilize some of these concepts myself.

Don't mind at all. I just ask for credit for any ideas you steal!


Ok, I will be honest. I am more than proficient with XML but python is a struggle. I am more than sure that I am not the only one that will want to be able to use this unit without the rest of the awesome game altering stuff. Maybe a little step by step guide on exactly how to implement this gem into our own game is in order.

I can be more specific, but some basic knowledge of python is going to help tremendously. I'm not saying you need to understand how to write your own classes and whatnot, but this thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=97183) has an introduction that's very helpful. The problem is that incorporating this into another game is more complicated that just copying the XML data and seeing it work--the python stuff has to be initiated and called correctly. I set it all up so that it would be easy to do, but it will still require some basic programming knowledge: specifically understanding how the event manger works. Nevertheless, I will try to post at least an explanation of the basics of using the FacesOfGod.py in another mod.


Sevo, this looks absolutely awesome.
That said, I have some thoughts about the mod, even though I haven't played it yet. (I will try it out in a few days I hope.)
First of all, it looks like the Crusade wonder is grossly overpowered compared to its costs. I may be mistaken, seeing as I only read about the mod without playing it, but this is my impression.

I haven't played through a full game with crusaders, either, but I think the costs will be adequate to offset the benefits. Great people will be slower (-25% is significant), and science at -20% will really hurt your tech progress. The biggest benefit is really the +2 xp /city, which isn't game-changing, and the units themselves, which are also offset by a higher cost to build per unit. Still, I could be wrong. If people find that they're being hammered by the crusaders or winning easily with them, we can adjust things.

Second of all, one thing I imagine would be a great addition is the integration of the Religious civics with this religious flavor system. Certain benefits should be on or off according to the Religious civics you're using, and perhaps some of the wonders should be destroyed if you ever select Free Religion (or even Free Speech or Emancipation or Universal Sufferage in some cases.) Surely the violent flavor wonders should not work without Organized Religion or Theocracy.

Great idea. I had wanted to incorporate the civics at some point but hadn't really addressed it yet.

Another thing I was thinking was that there should be a certain focus on the way each flavor spreads its religion. Perhaps, for instance, the Crusade flavor should bring the state religion into whatever city you conquer and have a random chance to kick out each of the religions already there (except for ones founded there). And perhaps with the Archive flavor, whenever you trade a tech to a rival every city of their has a 1 in 5 (or 8) chance of receiving your state religion. Maybe the Garden could spread your religion in rival cities when you trade a rival one of the Garden's food resources? And then of course the Idols and the Monuments flavors should just outright increase your state religion's natural spread. There are a great many combinations of spread bonuses that can be added to the different flavors.

Another great idea. Hadn't thought of anything like that at all.

Lastly, a tiny nitpick - isn't 1 in 5 too much of a chance for revolts in martyr-struck cities?

You make good points, and I guess we'll have to see. It's hard to predict how something will play out in a game. If it's too easy for the martyrs to disrupt city function it could unbalance things (though I made it really hard on the city/civ that builds the cathedral of vengenance, so they do need all the help they can get...)

a smal critc...

your Hall of Idols is nonsens for me.
150% max bonus production, in a citty whit 1 citisen(more not posible -75% foot), a citty whit 11 citisen have more production.
Mybe your give more in all citty bonus...
+1 production for prist ist not big to hold a citty down to 1 citisen.


I'm not sure where you're getting 1 citizen from. There's no limitation to one citizen in the Hall of Idols, your city can grow to any size. Also, note that 150% BONUS production is huge if you manage to get all those required resources. It's slower to make military units and space parts, but buildings and wonders you can bang out like nobody's business. I wanted to leave it to a single city so the civ can't dominate every wonder in the game--they can only work one at a time.

looks amazing!!!

There's no limitation to one citizen in the Hall of Idols, your city can grow to any size
No limitation Yes! city can grow to ony size No!! Whit wat food???
-75% food... 4 food prod ist 1 food in citty and minus 1 your need 2 per citensen....

sorry for me bad englsh maby this help you:

is it possible to give crusader units a penalty if they attack a city /or unit with the same state religion like the attackers one?
(or other way around - make them weaker and give them a bonus if they attack a city/unit with an other state religion)
(and let the crusader knight build a fort like in civ3)

Looks like a great mod, and I'll probably install it later. However, I do have one concern: Is there any way to defend against the martyrs and such? After all, in reality, nations have security forces to deal with problems like these; anything to that extent available in the mod?

hmm, maybe if you have the scotland yard wonder the chances of the panic and population drop event will change...

A thought, and I don't know how it would affect gameply, but wouldn't war weariness actually increase for Crusaders at war with a civ sharing their state religion? Admittedly, that might be awkward to implement and make switching ones state religion an effective defence against the crusading civ.

:cool: I can be more specific, but some basic knowledge of python is going to help tremendously. I'm not saying you need to understand how to write your own classes and whatnot, but this thread has an introduction that's very helpful. The problem is that incorporating this into another game is more complicated that just copying the XML data and seeing it work--the python stuff has to be initiated and called correctly. I set it all up so that it would be easy to do, but it will still require some basic programming knowledge: specifically understanding how the event manger works. Nevertheless, I will try to post at least an explanation of the basics of using the FacesOfGod.py in another mod.


Cool Sevo, I will follow up on this info and thank you. :goodjob: :cool:

Sevo, playing a game right now, so far so good!

The only 'bug' that I've found is with the Sid Tips of The Villages:

"TXT_KEY_BUILDING_CRISTIAN_VILLAGE_STRATEGY"

To me, no big deal with game play. Don't remember seeing it posted before, but thought you'd like to know.

Keep up the good work!:goodjob:

Just got my first "Founder". Excited to see what happens with this!

:eek: I think my first version included a piece of python code with test stuff in it! Hahaha. Figures. Anyway, if you notice a thunk and a bunch of digits popping up between turns, just ignore it, it's all in your head. Or download my new post with the upgraded martyrs and a fix.

Martyrs have been changed! I must be getting better at this python stuff because I coded this in a few hours after work today.

Now you build your martyrs per usual, then send them to an enemy city. Once in the city they'll wait 3 turns while they set up contacts and plan their op. After the 3 turn wait, they blow themselves up and cause anger in the target city (it'll basically add 1-3 unhappy faces for about the next 8 turns). Doesn't sound like much but it could be crippling if used right. There is about a 1 in 5 chance that the city actually revolts out of panic for a few turns, and there's around a 1 in 25 chance that enough people die to drop the population by one point (in addition to revolt and all that). (multiple uses are cumulative!) If used en masse, a group of martyrs could cause a pretty significant slowdown of production and progress in a neighboring civ.

Also, my playtesting tonight has demonstrated that the AI will use the martyrs correctly and effectively. They come straight at your biggest cities and [pissed] bam!


Very very nice :)
That was basically what i had in mind :scan:
Now please get out of my head, sevo:king: , so that I can play the game :crazyeye:

No limitation Yes! city can grow to ony size No!! Whit wat food???
-75% food... 4 food prod ist 1 food in citty and minus 1 your need 2 per citensen....

At first I thought, what's he talking about? There is no -75% food! But given the screenshot it seems I mis-coded the hall of idols somehow because you certainly aren't getting any food in your city! I'm working all night tonight (real job), but I'll post a fix tomorrow along with the other bugs reported. Thank you for pointing this out. Let me ask something, though--how did you get both a Hall of Idols and a Religious Monument? Did you use the worldbuilder, or did you somehow get two Holy Founders?

A thought, and I don't know how it would affect gameply, but wouldn't war weariness actually increase for Crusaders at war with a civ sharing their state religion? Admittedly, that might be awkward to implement and make switching ones state religion an effective defence against the crusading civ.

GIR made the same point. I thought about this one for a while, because it would be kinda cool if they could only have a benefit when attacking another religion, but there are plenty of cases of holy wars started between sects of the SAME "basic" religion (Christianity in Ireland, Islam in the middle east are just two examples). I like to think that maybe my version of Taoism is different from my neighbor's version, so we're going to war over it. I'm still thinking about it, though. And you have a point--if you're being attacked by crusaders and you switch to their religion, shouldn't they back off? Maybe they should...maybe they should. Would make for an interesting quirk, and it would make the crusaders a little less useful if they became powerless against units of their own religion. Interesting.

Finally, I just want to say THANKS to everyone for the feedback so far! Great ideas from all of you and it's fun to see people getting some enjoyment from the mod! I find I have a really hard time deciding which religious route to take...and that's what's making these games memorable!

I'm glad that you like my ideas. Another possible area of effect just occurred to me - diplomacy. Every flavor should affect diplomacy differently. The Vengeance flavor should give -1 or -2 with every civ you don't have a defensive pact with, something like "Your religion's violent ways scare us!". The Crusade flavor should give a larger negative effect to all civs you don't share your state religion with ("Your violent methods of conversion disturb us.") The Archive flavor should give +1 with any civ you trade technology to ("We thank you for sharing your religion's holy knowledge with us.") The Idols, Garden and Monuments flavors should give a small bonus with civs you have Open Borders with ("We're glad you let us see your beautiful monuments."/"We glad our people can see your beautiful statues."/"We're thrilled that you let us visit your breathtaking garden.") And finally, the Judiciary flavor should give -1 with any civ you don't share your state religion with or any civ with at least two last-tier Civics ("Your religion's control of law in your state disgusts us.")
Then of course you'd have to rebalance the flavors, but the integration with the diplomacy system would add alot of, well, flavor. :)

Well, Sevo my friend, you know you have a kick ass mod:goodjob: I just love the social engineering factor. This has inspired me to make an entirely new category of civics and implement some of the features in your mod, but in a non-python way.;)

I like the way you can build those religious units. Since my python skills suck:blush: , I had modded my game to use a dummy building that was required to build my religious units. The only way to build the units was to have the civic Jihad or Crusade. The trick was to use the XML to make it so you don't need the building to build the units, just like the Monastery/Missionary combo:D, but only when you have the civic:cool: So, when you added those great religious units, I just plugged them in:goodjob:

Just want to thank you again for tremendous inspiration.:cool:

By the way, perhaps the name "Crusade" is too religion-specific? Holy War may be more neutral, or even Jihad, since the Crusades were specifically Christian campaigns against Muslims, while "Jihad" generally denotes a holy struggle.

Just had another idea... The Idols flavor should do something with the chances to find metals, gems, stone and marble, since the people will all be obsessed with finding good materials for making idols... Maybe the flavor could give a small chance to find metals on any hill tile that a city works, even if the tile doesn't have a mine, and when it does have a mine the chances will stack together.
And maybe the Garden flavor should give a small chance for Rice, Corn and Wheat to spread to a neighboring tile with a Farm when they are farmed and worked by a city.

nnnnnnnnnnn

I make special for you this citty normal:http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=114511&stc=1&d=1138790238

and whit :
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=114512&stc=1&d=1138790441

I can't even download it. That crappy host site said I had to wait 45 minutes, so I did, then when the time was up it said my IP was already downloading a file (which it wasn't), and now it says I have to wait 80 minutes! :cry:

:goodjob: Sevo!

When shall we see a next version? ;)

EDIT:
you deserve my 1000th post... :)

jo, -75% food; that was a typo (wrong line) ;)

<BuildingClass>BUILDINGCLASS_HOLY_IDOL</BuildingClass>
...
<YieldModifiers>
<iYield>-75</iYield>
<iYield>0</iYield>
<iYield>-75</iYield>
</YieldModifiers>

I will try your mod

I make special for you this citty

You were right: I messed up and put the changes into yield instead of commerce. I've fixed it. Thank you for finding this doozy! Also, the new version fixes (I think) that python popup about pickles. Current version is 1.02.

I can't even download it. That crappy host site said I had to wait 45 minutes, so I did, then when the time was up it said my IP was already downloading a file (which it wasn't), and now it says I have to wait 80 minutes! :cry:


Yeah...sorry. That site is easier to upload to. I'll post a copy at FileFront, too, which is easier to download from.

It's working flawlessly now, thanks! I'm really enjoying the mod.

Savefile.com is easy to upload and download from.

Savefile.com is easy to upload and download from.


Check this out:

http://copylog.blogspot.com/2005/11/big-collection-of-free-file-hosting.html


Its a blog giving links to free file hosting.


Check it out.


-=R=-

Sevo,

Tried playing it multiplayer tonight, ran into a bit of a problem.

Connected on a standard LAN connection, we would get a constant OOS (Out of Sync) error that caused strange anomolies to the game, such as not updating my co-op players map. We've never had this problem before, and it worked just fine without the mod. Of course, I know multiplayer isn't the highest priority for you, and that's fine, but I wanted to pass this along to you - if you want I can post a screenshot of it tonight when I get home. Looks to be very fun though! BTW, we used 1.0.3, your latest version from last night. Again, just thought I'd pass along the word.

-m.

Sevo,

Tried playing it multiplayer tonight, ran into a bit of a problem.

Connected on a standard LAN connection, we would get a constant OOS (Out of Sync) error that caused strange anomolies to the game, such as not updating my co-op players map. We've never had this problem before, and it worked just fine without the mod. Of course, I know multiplayer isn't the highest priority for you, and that's fine, but I wanted to pass this along to you - if you want I can post a screenshot of it tonight when I get home. Looks to be very fun though! BTW, we used 1.0.3, your latest version from last night. Again, just thought I'd pass along the word.

-m.

Thanks. I'm beginning to see that the MP following is quite large, so I'm working harder to support it. Any info you could post about the error would be helpful. I don't know how the MP works in terms of datasharing, but I have a few ideas about what might be causing an OOS error. Anyway, gather as much as you can about the errors for me and I'll see what I can do to make this MP compatible.

See attachment here with the error, thanks!

-m.

all 7 new religious wonders work ok. Thnks. and make more nace ideea;)

1) Religions are founded the same way they always were--by being the first to reach a specific technology. I may change this in the future, but for now it stays.



Here is my vote for this:

True Prophets (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=155941)

True Prophets
Version 0.6 (Beta)
Updated 3 February 2006

This mod changes the way religions are founded in Civilization 4. Instead of being a byproduct of technology research, new religions are founded by Great Prophets.

This is a beta release of the mod. AI and human both work, but gameplay balancing is not complete. It was developed for patch 1.52.

The mod includes one new normally-buildable building: the Pagan Temple. This building is identical to a normal temple, but has no religion prerequisite. When a new religion spreads into its city, it converts into a temple of the appropriate religion.

Players who want a religion have two routes: build a Pagan Temple and divert population to staffing it, or build the wonders that provide Great Prophet points (Stonehenge, Oracle, and later Angkor Wat, Chichen Itza, or Spiral Minaret).

Interaction of religion with the game is significantly changed: instead of early religions being founded within the first 20 turns, players beelining have a hard time founding a religion before 1200 BC (on Noble), and AIs found religion between 600 BC and 600 AD.


Please, Sevo, check this out.

-=R=-

i second the true prophets!

looks very interesting. i've been doing a bit of thought about a religion mod (i'm an MA student in art and religion), and these are some solid moves yr. making. interested in working on a collaboration?

Great mod. Mind if I use the martyr code to make my own special unit?

Also, I noticed there is no code to make sure the martyr doesn't blow up his own city. You might want to change line 126 from:

if (pUnit.plot().isCity() == True):

to

if (pUnit.plot().isCity() == True and pUnit.getOwner() != pUnit.plot().getPlotCity().getOwner()):

Roger Bacon

This Mod sounds sweet, ill have to download it and try it out.

One thing that I would like to see in a mod would be the ability to name your religion when it was founded or to select from a list of names. It would also be nice to be able to select from an assortment of Icons to give your religion. I think this feature would fit well in a religion mod like this one where the point is to make religions more customizable.

Great mod. Mind if I use the martyr code to make my own special unit?

Also, I noticed there is no code to make sure the martyr doesn't blow up his own city.
Roger Bacon

Not at all. Use away... just credit me for whatever (Vanity, you know...:groucho:)

Self-destructive martyrs: Actually, I addressed this in the function above, "onMartyrMove()". The second part of the function checks as to whether the martyr is on his own or even his team's turf. If he is he doesn't get "activated" in the first place. It's right under the comment "#Is the unit on home territory?". Unless I messed that up they shouldn't blow up their own cities.


This Mod sounds sweet, ill have to download it and try it out.

One thing that I would like to see in a mod would be the ability to name your religion when it was founded or to select from a list of names. It would also be nice to be able to select from an assortment of Icons to give your religion. I think this feature would fit well in a religion mod like this one where the point is to make religions more customizable.

I've been thinking that. Actually to those who mentioned TrueReligion above, what I've been thinking is something along those lines, but even more diverse. Really, religion is hardly related to discovery of technology at all. I was thinking about leaving a couple of the religions "discoverable" by tech advances, maybe two by great prophets, another one by pure culture (first to 500, e.g., gets a religion), and maybe another one given to the smallest civ after 100 turns or something...kind of a relgion of the oppressed kind of thing. I dunno, just some early thoughts, since religion has really sprung up from all over. Anyway, the other thing I was going to do was randomize the religion discovery, so that the religion you get from doing X changes from game to game.

looks very interesting. i've been doing a bit of thought about a religion mod (i'm an MA student in art and religion), and these are some solid moves yr. making. interested in working on a collaboration?

Well, sure...

'course, I've already done this much! :lol: But as most of these folks know, I'm open to suggestions and feedback of all types. Let me know what you're thinking. :)

Sevo,

Any word on the error in the screenshot I posted? If not, let me know if you need more info about it all. Keep up the wonderful work! :)

-m.

I probably just a bit slow, but what's an "uck"? Some Holy Wonders list +1 uck and so on as their adverse effects. Is it unhealthyness or something?

(removed mistaken post)

Sevo,

Any word on the error in the screenshot I posted? If not, let me know if you need more info about it all. Keep up the wonderful work! :)

-m.

I haven't really been able to delve into it yet--been banging out the SevoMod update. I did have another question, though: do you get that error every single turn or only after certain events? Also, does it occur after EACH player's turn, or only once per game round? I know those are random questions but it might help me. I have a feeling it's a problem with how I grabbed my random numbers.


I probably just a bit slow, but what's an "uck"? Some Holy Wonders list +1 uck and so on as their adverse effects. Is it unhealthyness or something?

an "uck" is an "unhealthy" face. It's the opposite of a +1 health.

I haven't really been able to delve into it yet--been banging out the SevoMod update. I did have another question, though: do you get that error every single turn or only after certain events? Also, does it occur after EACH player's turn, or only once per game round? I know those are random questions but it might help me. I have a feeling it's a problem with how I grabbed my random numbers.




an "uck" is an "unhealthy" face. It's the opposite of a +1 health.

No problem, just thought I'd check for an update. Actually, that error comes up immediately when the game is started/loaded, and it's like the "victory" messages - it stays constant on the screen. The numbers don't seem to change from turn to turn, either.

-m.

I cannot download it. FileFront says it isn't on the server, and RapidShare...is just being moronic. :(

Very enjoyable:goodjob:

I have some questions and coments though.

Firstly, what is meant by 60% spread of the religon? Maybe I am not sure of how religon is spread in vanilla but if a city has it does it simply not have it... and therefore if you get Buddism when you have one city (which is usally the case IF you get it) you should get a Holy Founder for it.

Well in my first play I founded both Buddism and Confusism with only my capital. Never got the founder. THen when I had about 5 cities I spread my state religon (buddism) to them all... Still no founder. In addition in that game I founded 5 of the 7 religons.... This tells me that the AI is picking up on some bug or something... namely that you can not get a founder if you actually 'founded' the religon... Atleast so it seemed.


I played a couple games (about 100 turns or so) and this was always the case when I founded a religon. So I changed Civs (from India to Persia) and played more militaristic. In that game Confusism eventually founded its way to my lands and around the 1000AD I got a founder.

Not sure if you hardcoded something so you could not get a founder if the religon initialized to more than 60% (thus you have 1 city and it is founded in it) or what, but it was frustrating.


My only other comment is on when you get the Holy Founder. All of the wonders should display their effects and their requirements. Currently only the ones you can build show these facts. Thus you have no knowledge (unless you go into Civ pedia) of the other wonders effects or what needs to be done to build that instead... Not a biggy but would just be better to display it regardless I think.

I think I had some other stuff but I am gonna eat dinner now.

I cannot download it. FileFront says it isn't on the server, and RapidShare...is just being moronic. :(
I hope Sevo won't mind that I uploaded it to savefile.com at: http://www.savefile.com/files/4481106 for you (and anyone else who's having problems). RapidShare is almost as bad a server as FilePlanet. They SUCK.

I hope Sevo won't mind that I uploaded it to savefile.com at: http://www.savefile.com/files/4481106 for you (and anyone else who's having problems). RapidShare is almost as bad a server as FilePlanet. They SUCK.


Thanks AWolfe. I'm uploading my new SevoMod as we speak. I've stopped using RapidShare...I don't think anyone will complain. FileFront works great when it works. It's down all the time these days.


@Oni: You have to have at least 3 cities to get a founder. The other caveat is that once you change religions, you have to spread the religion to a new city. I'm going to have to look again at all my code to figure out what the @#$ is wrong witht MP games anyway, so I'll check things over while I'm doing it and make sure I didn't miss anything.

Hello Sevo Ive played with your sevomod for quite sometime and because i mainly play civ4 multiplayer with friends I tend to analyze new mods carefully for balance issues before we jump into them since players can abuse stuff much more than the AI. Ive noticed something:


**** Religious Village *****

Like temples or monastaries, one of these can be built for each religion in a city (e.g., Jewish village, Hindu village, etc.) This represents a small community of the religious followers living together and sharing their common bond. This increases happiness in the city in many ways.

-Requires: Guilds
-Cost 180
-Benefits: +1 happiness, +1 happiness if state religion, -20% war weariness, +3 culture
-Will gain any benefits granted to state religion buildings by holy wonders


That war weariness is what stands out. At the moment if someone is playing with your original sevomod its possible for them to stay commerce intense in the universal sufferage or representation civic and get -95% to war weariness (-25% Jail, -25% mt rushmore, -25% universal sufferage wonder, -20% from this new religeous village) with this mod,,,, which basically makes the police state civic now useless and obsolete since the -50% to war wariness was a defining feature of that civic allowing you to be much more warlike than non-police state civs. This new building will make it a little too easy to go into berserk warmode while keeping the awesome bonuses of universal sufferage or representation. Even if the player doesnt have the universal sufferage world wonder with this mod they will still be able to get -70% to war weariness which still is quite incredible. And combining the fact that they can now get 2 more happy faces from this new religeous village building to negate even more discontent people,,, the police state civic still loses much of its defining feature and hence its point of even being in the game. There wont be much reason to be in anything but representation or universal sufferage civic if this building is combined with your sevomod, or even with just the vanilla game.

I love your work and am not criticizing this mod, but i would hate for the effort put into your sevomod to suffer from major imbalances for people who want to combine it with this one. Suggestion: consider removing the war weariness bonus on this building. The happy faces already help to combat unhappiness from war weariness, the additional bonus makes it overpowered.

In addition i notice similiar issues that might be present with your new Holy Crusade holy wonder. Im not sure how you feel about a wonder being able to obsolete and render useless an entire industrial era civic, but again this one does it to police state. Also this national wonder risks becoming exactly what Fundamentalism was in Civ 2 toward the endgame. When research and great people no longer matter there will little reason for any player to use anything but this Holy Wonder. Endgame in a multiplayer game will be nothing but armies of modern armor fists of god because any player not using this national wonder would be at an extreme disadvantage considering the others arent too useful endgame. Suggestion: think about lowering its bonus to -25% war weariness since as it is now this is the only national wonder in the game that renders useless one of the most expensive government civics in the game to research. Also consider increasing its negatives (the minus to research isnt that much really and the +100% maintenance is nothing if the city only has a 2 or 3 upkeep to begin with) since it seems a little too powerful as a modern day wonder that everyone will automatically go for as the rest have little endgame value.

I hope this feedback is useful and not taken negatively.

I have to agree with naf4ever regarding the whole war weariness issue, there are too many things that reduce it. Also, consider that you can build these villages for each religion, so if you have 3 religions, that's a lot of war weariness that you can negate fairly easily even without the -war weariness effect. Deciding to go to war should be a big decision and part of that is the dilemma of whether or not to switch to a Police State. So, I think that in addition to removing the -war weariness of villages you should consider removing the universal suffrage wonder as well.

Hello Sevo Ive played with your sevomod for quite sometime and because i mainly play civ4 multiplayer with friends I tend to analyze new mods carefully for balance issues before we jump into them since players can abuse stuff much more than the AI...I hope this feedback is useful and not taken negatively.

As usual, great comments and criticisms. And you're almost certainly right. I'm not going to merge this with Sevomod for now because I think this mod, while I did it for fun and concept value, is a little too off the standard game to fit into the "theme" of the Sevomod.

Your critiques (and Rabbit's follow-ups) are probably dead on. But that's why I like to get feedback from these forums: because you guys see these things differently and I don't always play the same way everyone else does. I have some other stuff I think could be balanced out, but I definitely appreciate the input on this.

Also, as I developed the mod, I began to use the python more and the XML less, and I'm now rethinking the entire concept of the crusaders. I may sack all the UU's and instead grant the crusaders a +10% bonus when fighting on foreign soil, or something similar that would smooth out a lot of these problems.

Also also--still haven't had time to look at why the MP games crash--but I haven't forgotten!

Can this mod be run at the same time as Sevomod, however? And if so, how would one go about loading them both?

Holy cow thats coool!:eek: :eek:

Holy cow thats cool:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

Hi Sevo

I just got through playing an OCC with your Sevomod. I was a thoroughly enjoyable experience, and I've just downloaded version 2.3 for a game in the near future.

A question about Faces of God: does it play on OCC? Specifically, I'm wondering about the 60% spread of religion, the creation of a founder, and the Holy Wonders. If you only have one city, is it possible to reach these goals?

I believe not I found hinduisme and confucianisme both in my capital, i chose confucianisme as state religon, i then had 2 cities both confuc. no founder, later I found taoisme change as state religon then spread it and then I did get a founder, used it for holy crusade fought a hard war and change back to confucianisme again, spread it to some cities who didn't had it yet (just conquered) and then I got a founder. So I don't realy get when you do get one and when you don't. I noticed it only happens when you convert a city, but when you turn your 3the city into conf. and the other 2 already had it I belief that according to your post I should have got one. Or is ther an minimum amount of cities that must have it before you even have a chance of getting it? If so please tell us.

Also I think barbarians should be able to build crusader units such as the guardian or the champion, but I don't know if thats a bug or you did that on purpose.

Hi Sevo

I just got through playing an OCC with your Sevomod. I was a thoroughly enjoyable experience, and I've just downloaded version 2.3 for a game in the near future.

A question about Faces of God: does it play on OCC? Specifically, I'm wondering about the 60% spread of religion, the creation of a founder, and the Holy Wonders. If you only have one city, is it possible to reach these goals?

No, you have to have at least 4 cities.

I thought that might tbe the case. I finished up an OCC last night with your mod, and not a single founder or holy wonder. Thuogh I believe I came across a barbian as a crusader.

For that matter, none of the AI rival civs had a founder either. We had open borders nearly the whole game, and I was pretty aggressive about spreading my religion. I must have saturated their cities with Buddhism, and they were running it as their state religions. Maybe next game.

Thanks for your reply. I appreciate it.

I was having trouble downloading the file from one of the sources. I don't remember which, since it was a long while ago. I got all the way through the process, until just after I was asked to "CLick this link to begin download", the page didn't freeze, but the download didn't start nor did I receive any kind of error message. Any help?

I hope Sevo won't mind that I uploaded it to savefile.com at: http://www.savefile.com/files/4481106 for you (and anyone else who's having problems). RapidShare is almost as bad a server as FilePlanet. They SUCK.

You rock.

*builds a statue of you*

Awsome mod mate, I can't wait to try this out.

Sevo is there a way to merge a lot of stuff into Sevomod then have it configurable what you'd like in and out? This religon mod looks interesting, and I typically been playing Sevomod with the 3-square city patch.

Is there a way you can have toggled options? Like Sevo Religon, On/Off, 3-Square citys On/Off, Tech Leak Thru Trade routes On/Off....?

I'm espically concerned about the tech leak thru trade routes coming up. I usually disable tech trading so I can get a 'fairer' game with the NPCs....

Excellent work on your mods, the are the highest quality.

Thanks--While merging all of the stuff above together in a manner that allowed easy-on easy-off for users would be possible, it would be pretty complex at this point because it wasn't designed that way, and it would make it much harder for other modders to keep their work up-to-date with Sevomod.

I think this particular mod is really underrated--at least in my own mind--as I did it to try some stuff out with religion and see what all could be done with the game system. I ultimately didn't want to include it in Sevomod because it changed the gameplay so dramatically and Sevomod was conceived to preserve the base game.

But I was recently looking over this mod and I forgot about some of the features I worked in. I'm going to revisit it and see if I can't improve on it a little more at some point.

Hi,

this mod seems wonderfull!!!

As I have not a lot of time, a didn't read the whole threads but I still have three questions if you don't mind:
if they already have been answered, just say so, I will read the whole thread in a little while (next week or so)

1) evident one : is/will the mod be compatible with Sevomod And/Or with warlords?
2) do we still have holy cities for the founder of the religion? if not : what is the new use of Great prophets generated by th GP farms?

3) are great founders limited to building holy wonders under the state religion they come from? (if not: I create a holy founder for hinduism(60%), then swap state religion to judaisme (60%) ==> new holy founder. So I can built 2 holy wonders in my civ.)
If holy founders are state-religion-locked : what happen in the previous exemple : using an hindu holy founder in a jewish state religion civ?

4)As holy wonders are distroyed during state religion swapping, do I get a new religion founder if I swap back to the old religion? aka hinduism in the former exemple?
if no: it is not interesting to swap back to an old religion that had already a holy founder ==> it becomes very costly to change our state religion for diplomatic interests... no very interesting
if yes: I see a possible flaw: having already a hindu founder when swapping ==> 2 hindu founders ==> 2 holy wonders...

or maybe you already made something like:
-holy founder cannot creat holywonder if not state religion.
-Holy founder created if (new) State religion reaches (as already) 60% AND no "new state religion holy founder" already present.

5) are holy wonders each limited to 1 at a time per civ or for the world?

1) evident one : is/will the mod be compatible with Sevomod And/Or with warlords?

Nope! It's "compatible", but you'd have to merge it with sevomod, and I don't currently plan on making it warlords compatible.

2) do we still have holy cities for the founder of the religion? if not : what is the new use of Great prophets generated by th GP farms?

Yes, Great Prophets function as normal.

3) are great founders limited to building holy wonders under the state religion they come from? (if not: I create a holy founder for hinduism(60%), then swap state religion to judaisme (60%) ==> new holy founder. So I can built 2 holy wonders in my civ.)

Founders are limited to the religion they come from. If you change religions you will lose the holy wonder you built.


4)As holy wonders are distroyed during state religion swapping, do I get a new religion founder if I swap back to the old religion? aka hinduism in the former exemple?
if no: it is not interesting to swap back to an old religion that had already a holy founder ==> it becomes very costly to change our state religion for diplomatic interests... no very interesting

It IS very costly to change your state religion for diplomatic interests. You can't go back...

if yes: I see a possible flaw: having already a hindu founder when swapping ==> 2 hindu founders ==> 2 holy wonders...

Founders are lost when you swap religions, too!


5) are holy wonders each limited to 1 at a time per civ or for the world?[/QUOTE]

No--two different civs can have the same holy wonder.

Great mod Sevo, somehow I missed it when I was looking for mods before, so I just found out about it now. I'll give it a go.

Sevo, i have found a bug on your new mod, and it's an annoying one too. After i have made my 6th settler, this is what i get
http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/2543/civ4screenshot0001qw7.jpg

I've been thinking that. Actually to those who mentioned TrueReligion above, what I've been thinking is something along those lines, but even more diverse. Really, religion is hardly related to discovery of technology at all. I was thinking about leaving a couple of the religions "discoverable" by tech advances, maybe two by great prophets, another one by pure culture (first to 500, e.g., gets a religion), and maybe another one given to the smallest civ after 100 turns or something...kind of a relgion of the oppressed kind of thing. I dunno, just some early thoughts, since religion has really sprung up from all over. Anyway, the other thing I was going to do was randomize the religion discovery, so that the religion you get from doing X changes from game to game.


or to stay with only GP, you can balance the things by assigning religion founding by GP but religion availability to tech...
so in order to found christianisme one would have to have theology AND a GP.
this way, it won't always be the 1st to the tech that have the religion, but you won't have the 7 religion founded at the beginning of the game, when each civ gets it's first GProphet..

ohh... no availability for warlords .. :( too bad..

out of context :

the bandit unit you created seems very very powerfull... It is true the Ai will have some trouble using it, but otherwise it is very powerfull for improving your poor/desertic land.

I thought that maybe, it would be more interesting to not limit it's use to vengeance type religions as it seems a quite "profane" unit.

for exemple their use could be limited to a civic.

the "bandit leader" units can be only created under a certain civic :
the civic can be
-government ("bandit state", "druglords"...),
-legal ("legalised banditry"),
-labor ("organised razias"... add to it a chance for the creation of slave units when winning a combat and people may trade the pop rush of slaver to this civic)
-trade/financial civic ("agressive libersalism", "exploitation of the colonies"... but in this case the unit is not a bandit but a "aggressive risk taker" or a "taxe collector")

the deal would be to make for exemple only available 1 bandit leader for 2-3 cities, bandit hideout distroyed if changing the civic, (or making the hideout a very bad choice if you don't have the civic: bandit hideout = bonus of the case the bandit is on,+ "-10f -10H -10c" and when you have the right civic : +10f +10H +10c to compensate the initial malus)

to that add :
-bandit: neutral (as privateer) and/or invisible (as spy) unit, cannot attack. bandits are sustained as any other unit. (can only go into neutral or opened border lands)/(can go into other cultural border?)
-some unit (mounted units? or new unit?) can see the bandit.
-add a malus on the civic : -10%science, -20% GP, +50% maintenance, high civic price..etc, -1 to diplo to every civ (wary of pillagers), -3 (total-4) to diplo if not the same civic "your way of favorising 'pillager into our pacific countries' / 'exploitation of our good-willing peasants' upside us".

.make the vengeance wonder enable X bandit-like units, pillagers/quester for the faith.... (X =3-6-infinite) those units are not sustained. + (unit not neutral, + invisble) (+unit can go in adverse territory) or unit neutral/not invisible, commando, can pillage. so the unit can distroy ennemy goods without declaring war, transfer it to one's coffers.

this way,
1) vengeance religion would have a bonus for the use of bandits : free ones, more powerfull ones, (+other vengeance type units) + having availability of bandit-like units without having to suffer the malus of the 'standard' bandit-civic.
2) bandits caracteristic are available to other types of gameplay (as the special ability of bandits is not typically a religious one, it seems better to have it out of religion, the religion aspect only increasing the unit performances)
3) people may want to use other civics than the bureaucracy/slavery/mercantilism trio. (especially if you move this unit on a labor civic)

my two cents.

another thing : IMO sleepers should be able to spread religion (as a missionary, but with a lower chance), as they blow their cover, the unit is distroyed (as missinoary unit) the religion spread or not. ==> it makes good usefullness of sleepers : both an aggressive behaviour and a more pacific one.

Rather than having a religious revolt destroy the old wonder, I'd think that the old wonder should simply become obsolete. There's a long tradition of new religions taking over the old religion's holy sites, in places as diverse as Utah, Istanbul, and Rome.

I see sevo abandon this mod he have made, there not many posts and this topic was 6-7 months old.

I was afraid of that. Oh, well.

Thanks for this mod.I could'nt see installation instructions so I just put it in my mods folder.When the mod is loading I get 5 xml error messages.The first one is.....Tag TECH_communism in I nfo class was incorrect current XML file is: Buildings/CIV4 Buildings.Infos.XML.
I've tried clearing the cashe and custom assets folders which was in the instructions of another mod and I thought it might work in this one,but it did'nt.
Can anyone help to put me on the right track.
deepace

Will this mod also be an component of Sevolords (I gues it would but can never be sure):)