View Full Version : New Civilization: Vietnam (Việt Nam)


The Q-Meister
Feb 03, 2006, 07:37 AM
My very first mod! :king: :goodjob: After many hours of frustration and having to learn everything from the bottom up, I am very pleased with the final result and hope that the Civ community will find it enjoyable as well! There will be an update to this mod so be on the look out as it will come out soon!


114767

CIVILIZATION: VIETNAM (Việt Nam)
LEADERS: Ho Chi Minh Traits: Organized, Philosophical.
114766 Favorite Civic: State Property


UNIQUE UNIT: VIET CONG (Replacement for infantry)
20 Strength 2 Movement Comes with Woodsman, Ambush promotion
Required Techs: Rifling, Communism

Very, very special thanks to Anima Croatorum and Srdjan for making such a beautiful unit and ending my exhausting search for a unit for the Vietnamese that I could live with!


(A note on the cities: I chose to use "Saigon" rather than the official "Ho Chi Minh City" because I felt that 1. This was the name most around the world are familiar with. 2. It has been called "Saigon" for the vast majority of its history and 3. Ho Chi Minh and every other Vietnamese leader I may include would have known HCMC as Saigon. I want to be clear that I meant no political statement by making Ho Chi Minh City as Saigon)


ADDITIONAL FEATURES INCLUDE:
1. Unique Diplomatic language for Ho Chi Minh :cool:
2. Fully cited Civilopedia with references for Ho Chi Minh, Viet Cong and Vietnamese Civilization
3. Should work in all languages. However, the Vietnamese-related material will be in English.
4. Simple "how to install mod" instructions included.



DOWNLOAD HERE: VIETNAM V1.25 (http://www.filegone.com/0t2o)



My goal was to make this a high-quality mod. I am serious about pursuing this goal. To that aim, please do not hesitate to provide any comments/suggestions/feedback. They are all welcome! :goodjob:

ENJOY!

The Q-Meister
Feb 03, 2006, 09:24 AM
I plan on updating the mod in the near-future. Here is what I have already planned.

VIETNAM VERSION 1.5 TO INCLUDE:

-More Leaders
Possibilities include
Vo Nguyen Giap (famous military general, hero of Dien Bien Phu)
Con Truong Pham (commander of South Vietnamese forces)
Ancient Vietnamese leader?

- If the demand is there, I may have another Vietnam version that is geared more towards the ancient history of Vietnam with a new flag, new leaders, new units, etc but only if the demand is there.

- More Unique Diplomatic language for Ho Chi Minh

As always, your suggestions are most welcome! I am especially interested in hearing what people think about the Viet Cong unit - did I make it too powerful, too weak, or just right? I debated this for a long time and I think what I came up with is pretty good: the base strength for the Viet Cong is the same as the regular infantry but I gave it 2 free promotions, 20% withdrawal and +1 movement bonus.

AND I am interested in hearing about which leaders people like me to add! I am especially interested if anyone wants a pre-modern Vietnamese leader as I don't know much about that history of Vietnam but would be willing to check it out.

ON THE WISH LIST:
Authentic Vientamese sound! (This would be fantastic, but I would definitely need some help!)
3-D Leaderhead! (Ditto. Would love to have it, but would need help.)

RogerBacon
Feb 03, 2006, 01:00 PM
Hey, thanks for this mod. I downloaded the Thailand one last night and I'll add this one tonight. I'm well on my way to populating an all Asian scenario.

As for the future, I believe there would be demand for a more ancient version of the Vietnam civ. Like most Americans I know Vietnam from its recent, communist, history but they had a long rich history before that.

Roger Bacon

senor freebie
Feb 03, 2006, 01:26 PM
Nice choice for a Civ. The Vietcong unit is an interesting one. I would have tried to work a new gameplay concept for it such as being able to conscript them from towns that you culturally influence / are occupied by opponents. This would be a big advantage but could be offset by an issue such as -25% defence on open terrain types such as grassland. If this unit could be conscripted from an occupied Vietnamese town it would reduce the % of Vietnamese left in that town but not the amount of non-Vietnamese. It would appear next to the town and could potentially take damage or start on low health (20% chance per unit stationed in occupied city).

Vietnamese Guy
Feb 03, 2006, 10:26 PM
if you want an ancient vietnamese UU i hear Vietnam had fine archers in it's military

senor freebie
Feb 04, 2006, 03:29 AM
Was it with archers that they defeated Genghis Khan? Perhaps they could have a jungle and forest bonus of 100% as well as more movement. This would make regular archers as good in defence as keshiks are in offence.

The Q-Meister
Feb 04, 2006, 08:18 AM
Thanks for all the feedback guys! Appreciate it.

As for the ancient mod, I'll give it some thought. Does anyone have any ancient/pre-modern Vietnamese leaders they'd like to see?

@ Vietnamese Guy - Thanks for the tip about the archers! I'll keep it in mind.

@Senor Freebie - Interesting idea but I don't know if that's even possible and I'm not sure how I feel about concept either...maybe when SDK comes out. How do you find the Viet Cong unit right now? Too powerful/weak/just right?

@ Roger Bacon - Yea, I'm happy to see some Asian civs too! :D Singapore actually just came out so I'll have to try that one too.

One of the motivations for me in making this civ was that I highly doubt Firaxis would ever include Vietnam in one of their expansions. In fact on their poll it wasn't even on the list of nominated civs! So I'd personally rather focus my energies on civs/mods that are not very likely to be made rather than ones that are.

Vietnamese Guy
Feb 04, 2006, 12:03 PM
Thanks for all the feedback guys! Appreciate it.

As for the ancient mod, I'll give it some thought. Does anyone have any ancient/pre-modern Vietnamese leaders they'd like to see?




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Vietnam#Dynastic_Period

plenty of leaders there, thanks to wikipedia.

Lư Công Uẩn should have a mention because he did start the "golden age" of ancient vietnam, as well as Trần Hưng Đạo for defeating the mongols.

Koelle
Feb 04, 2006, 03:18 PM
Nice one, downloading it now. As for ancient leader, i 'd recommend the following:
-Sisters Trung Trac und Trung Nhi, led the surprising against the Hans in 40 A.D. After two years of fighting, the Trung sisters were defeated and committed suicide by drowning themselves
-Ngo Quyen: defeated the Southern Han at the famous battle in Bach Dang river and established the first dynasty in Vietnam in 938 A.D. The same tactic was successful used by Tran Hung Dao after about 300 years against the Mongols
-Tran Hung Dao: defeated Kublai Khan and Genghis Khan 3 times. But his most famous battle (also in Bach Dang river) was just a copy cat version of Ngo's
-Ly Thuong Kiet: attacked and razed some Chinese cities.
-Le Thanh Tong (Le the Saintly Emperor): Conquered Champa and Khmer kingdoms
-Emperor Quang Trung: the greatest vietnamese military strategist in my opinion. In his short reign, he managed to unite North and South Vietnam and defeated Siam's navy as well as 300.000 Chinese Qing troops in a blitz-krieg attack. He died at the age of 40 while preparing to conquer chinese provinces Guangdong and Guangxi, once vietnamese territories. He was the only one among the Viet to have dreamt of the conquest of China. He was also the only one capable of succeeding, for his military genius was unmatched. Here's an article about him: http://greenfield.fortunecity.com/crawdad/204/nguyenhue.html
-Vo Nguyen Giap: Hes still living in Hanoi at the age of 100(?). the only alive leader maybe

As for another UU, i recommend War Elephant (with Canon on its back, replacement for Cavalry) used by Quang Trung in the blitz-krieg attack metioned above
http://empires.world-of-strategy.com/china.php

Btw, i prefer a simple name for the leader, like Peter or Catherine. Could you change it to something like Uncle Ho?

senor freebie
Feb 05, 2006, 01:31 AM
I forgot to mention, I consider Uncle Ho the greatest leader of Vietnam. He was the mastermind behind defeating Japan, France, South Vietnam and the USA. It is also a great tragedy that he died of old age before he was able to see his country independent.

Also I don't mind your Viet Cong unit as it is. Works fine for me but the 30% upgrade with x2 movement in forest also seems more logical as 20% seems underpowered with units like 'cossacks' who are +3 strength and 50% vs. cavalry.

ModernTank
Feb 05, 2006, 03:25 PM
Well Done mate,

Some points:

Viet Cong is used for Guerilla Unit (Du Kick) operated in the south of the 47' line during the VN war. For the conventional North VN army , its name was Liberation Army(Quan Giai Phong) , or People Army (Quan Doi Nhan Dan), like many other communism regime and countries.

For Pre Modern leaders:

King Ham Nghi or King Duy Tan: Those two king tried to overthrown the french colonization and to run Meiji-like political reforms, unfortunately, they failed badly.

Phan Boi CHau : founder of Dong Du movement



For Archer unit:

i dont think VN archer unit was famous. VN have Crossbowman instead of Archer (See An Duong Vuong legend)

and bravo for the War elephant Unit.


For the sound :

Which kind of sound do you like ? i can find some .wav and .mp3

Vietnamese Guy
Feb 05, 2006, 09:46 PM
vietnamese armies from ancient to modern mainly comprise of foot soldiers, extremely well trained in guerilla warfare... one things for certain the unit we decide has to incorporate those characteristics

Leif
Feb 07, 2006, 12:13 AM
Do you need the Vietnamese national anthem?

Also, what color is the vietnamese civ and what does the VC infantry look like?

The Q-Meister
Feb 07, 2006, 07:15 AM
Do you need the Vietnamese national anthem?

Also, what color is the vietnamese civ and what does the VC infantry look like?

No I don't need the Vietnamese national anthem, just "war sounds" for their units similar to the sounds that other military units make from other civs. (EDIT: Actually if you could find an MP3 version of the Vietnamese national anthem I could maybe use that as their diplomacy music, never though of that before, but it actually might work!)

The default color of the Vietnamese Civ is red; their flag used is the flag posted on this thread. (The modern flag of Vietnam)

I am especially proud of the Vietnamese UU as it took me forever to find one! You can try going to the Yugoslavia thread as they were the folks who created the unit that I am currently using, or , better yet you can download the Vietnam civ and see for yourself! :D

The Q-Meister
Feb 07, 2006, 07:30 AM
@ Modern Tank: Thanks for the advice and for the list of leaders; I'll definitely look into it! For the sound, I Civ IV (EDIT: The unit-specific sound for Civ is WAV. The Diplomacy-sound is MP3.) . If you could find authentic Vietnamese sounds that could be used for their military units it would be greatly appreciated! :goodjob:

As for the ancient Vietnamese UU, there seems to be a bit of a disagreement about that. Some say War Elephant others say Archers, hopefully we can come to an agreement about it.

@ Koelle: Thank you too for the leader nominations and descriptions! Glad you are enjoying the mod. I am most likely going to include Vo Nguyen Giap in an updated version of this current mod while making plans to make an entirely different "Ancient Vietnamese Civ" for those who wish to play that.

On shortening Ho Chi Minh's name for gameplay purposes, well I honestly never thought of that one but you could actually easily change that yourself by going into the gametext file. If you like, I could change it for you and then post it here or email it to you to download.

ModernTank
Feb 07, 2006, 11:17 AM
VC Unit is weak, i changed their strenght to 24 equals to Navy Seals (lol bit exaggerated) .

bugs report :

the VN flag did not appeared , all i see is a white flag....which is quite annoying.

i cant see the special diplomatic line of VN


and also i will try to record some command in VNese with my own voice :) (Yes sir , No sir, Attack, Awaiting for order and stuff like that)

altus
Feb 07, 2006, 04:04 PM
Con Truong Pham (commander of South Vietnamese forces)


Forgive my ignorance, but who's this guy ? :confused:

The Q-Meister
Feb 08, 2006, 07:02 AM
VC Unit is weak, i changed their strenght to 24 equals to Navy Seals (lol bit exaggerated) .

bugs report :

the VN flag did not appeared , all i see is a white flag....which is quite annoying.

i cant see the special diplomatic line of VN

and also i will try to record some command in VNese with my own voice :) (Yes sir , No sir, Attack, Awaiting for order and stuff like that)

Hmmm... interesting, it seems to work all right on mine. Is anyone else having these problems?

Also, is your Civ updated to the new patch, 1.52? Perhaps I should have mentioned that I am using the latest patch in making this mod. Well thanks anyway for making the sound and I am definitely curious if anyone else sees a white flag or if they see the actual Vietnamese flag as I do.

The Q-Meister
Feb 08, 2006, 07:05 AM
Forgive my ignorance, but who's this guy ? :confused:

No problem! And it's actually no ignorance at all! Con Troung Pham was one of the commanders of the forces of South Vietnam. Special Forces of South Vietnam to be precise.

The Q-Meister
Feb 08, 2006, 07:11 AM
VC Unit is weak, i changed their strenght to 24 equals to Navy Seals (lol bit exaggerated) .


Thanks for the input. I had tinkered with increasing the base strength of the VC but then I thought that I would make him too powerful considering the 2 free promotions, +1 movement and withdrawal. I also wanted to demonstrate that their strength was not so much its ability to overpower other units but rather its ability to outlast and outmaneuver them. I will definitely look into increasing the base strength of the VC by 1 or 2 though I don't think I can go as high as 24! :eek:

Koelle
Feb 08, 2006, 08:12 AM
I've never tested their strength because i was in peace when i got VC, but they seem weak and dont look like an UU. 22 should be ok. I also see the white flag instead of red. About the commander, maybe i'm one of the few who never heard about him, but what makes "one of the commanders" a great leader?

ModernTank
Feb 08, 2006, 09:30 AM
Graphics changes for VC Unit:

AK47 for the gun (the gun as i see in this version is a CKC Garant, used for sniper only, not as effective as Ak47 Chinese or Russian version)

Military Uniform: in green, without any red armband

Shoe: sandals

Hat : "Tai Beo" Hat


For Pham Truong Con, i cant comment !!!

heads of the Spec Ops of South VN is as follow:

Colonel Le Quang Tung (Founder)
Lieutenant General Le Van Nghiem
Brigadier General Lam Son
Brigadier General Doan Van Quang
Major General Pham Van Phu
Colonel Ho Tieu

The Q-Meister
Feb 08, 2006, 10:25 AM
Actually if you look at other UU's in the game, I think my upgrades are very similar to them if not slightly more so. For example, the Musketeer UU ONLY gets +1 movement! The VC has withdrawal, 2 promotions AND +1 movement. Similarly, the Panzer UU only gets 1 additional promotion while its base strength and movement remains the same. The Navy SEAL gets a couple more first strikes and then everything else is the same as Marine; the units its replacing. The Keshik UU also only gets 1 additional first strike while everything else is the same. And the list goes on and on from there.

I'm not saying I wouldn't consider changing some things about the VC UU but I really don't think I'm so off-base here. I tried giving them the same upgrades that other UU's in the game have received for balance sake and I think if you compare the upgrades I gave the VC to the upgrades for other UU's I at least gave them as much if not slighltly more so.

The Q-Meister
Feb 08, 2006, 11:02 AM
Graphics changes for VC Unit:

AK47 for the gun (the gun as i see in this version is a CKC Garant, used for sniper only, not as effective as Ak47 Chinese or Russian version)

Military Uniform: in green, without any red armband

Shoe: sandals

Hat : "Tai Beo" Hat



For the VC unit graphics-wise, I really have a long story to tell you about it; I searched everywhere for hours for a unit that I could use. I was shocked to find out there no decent guerilla unit anywhere! I mean, I literally found Orcs, Wizards and Demons but not guerillas! (Very strange if you ask me, considering the historical role guerillas have played throughout world history.) I PM'd many people asking for help as I am not artistically talented, but to no avail. Many told me to wait until SDK comes out as that is supposed to make things much easier to MOD but luckily I found a unit from the Yugoslavia Civ that was very close to the unit I was looking for and that is the one used in the game. If anyone can find a unit that is better suited for Vietnam I'd love to hear about it.

Your ideas seem really good for the VC unit and I'd love to add them in but as I mentioned, graphics is not my forte and unfortunately, unless SDK makes things easier I personally would be unable to do it.

The Q-Meister
Feb 08, 2006, 11:21 AM
UPDATE!

A more recent update to the Vietnamese Civ has been added so I have deleted this older update.

Minor Updates include:

- Changed White Flag value from "1" to "0". This should correct the white flag problem.

- Changed City Names so that cities with more than one word, such as Nha Trang don't have the "_" space in between them. It was a rather silly mistake on my end and it has been corrected here.

ModernTank
Feb 08, 2006, 08:05 PM
unfortunately i'm not good with 3D animation either, i google a 3D model of typical VC as i described above, hope that some one can help with it...

For the strenght of the VC, dont worry, i changed it myself, to 24 + Commando, Health 1,2

(sorry about that, since i m VNese, i want the special unit of VN have something special :lol: :lol: :lol: )

ModernTank
Feb 08, 2006, 11:00 PM
:confused: :confused: :confused: The Flag aint red in the new update, still white. I spot un error vietsmall.dds, V must be in Capital (case sensitive), i changed from v to V, aint work neither.....

The Q-Meister
Feb 09, 2006, 07:23 AM
:confused: :confused: :confused: The Flag aint red in the new update, still white. I spot un error vietsmall.dds, V must be in Capital (case sensitive), i changed from v to V, aint work neither.....

Very sorry about that...actually I have done a search for "i see white flag" in the customization thread and it seems to be a recurring problem with all modded civilizations. Some people seem to get them no matter what while others see the flag normally.

I will continue to see what I can do but I have downloaded the Vietnamese civ on two different computers and I get the Vietnamese flag. You're sure you are using the latest patch, 1.52 right?

If you are, would you mind downloading some other modded civ and then seeing if you get a white flag there or not? Tell me what that civ is so I can take a look to see what they did differently.

Vietcong
Feb 10, 2006, 04:10 PM
woooooot wooooot wooooot :goodjob:

ModernTank
Feb 10, 2006, 04:56 PM
yes i use 1.52

i downloaded thee Isramods, i can see the israel flag fine, no matter what i changed with the VN mods, the white flag still there.....

mutax2003
Feb 10, 2006, 05:20 PM
Anyone thought about making a scenario for the Vietnam war? All the other powers can be included as well (i.e. China, USSR), but each will have different goals, concepts can include:

(1) Clandestine support from China and USSR in the form of unit gifting and gold support, but no open declaration of war.
(2) Limited engagement from US (only allowed to bomb Hanoi, but not actually invade it; however, bombers can destroy infrastructures in cities)
(3) The popular protests against the war back home can be represented by angry red faces from war weariness
(4) Vietnamese popular resistance to the Americans can be represented by lower strength infantries that spawn throughout the map (those can't be controlled by the Vietnamese faction, but will attack the Americans on their own)
(5) All techs will be set and no research will be done

The scenario should be as close to real history as possible, and will be interesting to play it through. I know Firaxis won't make this kind of mod due to still lingering political sensitivity regarding this conflict in US. What do you think of this idea?

Wem
Feb 11, 2006, 02:50 PM
Viet Cong, I love it. That's the derisive term coined by angry US politicians.

They're called the National Liberation Front. Someone should put together a scenario involving Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, the USSR, China and the US. Everyone vs the US :D

Koelle
Feb 11, 2006, 07:46 PM
You remind me of this joke:

An American and a Japanese were sitting on the plane on the way to LA when the American turned to the Japanese and asked, "What kind of -ese are you?"

The Japanese confused, replied, "Sorry but I don't understand what you mean." The American repeated, "What kind of -ese are you ?" Again, the Japanese was confused over the question. The American, now irritated, then yelled, "What kind of -ese are you...Are you a Chinese, Japanese,Vietnamese, etc......"

The Japanese then replied, "Oh, I am a Japanese." A while later the Japanese turned to the Americans and asked what kind of '-key' was he.
The American, frustrated, yelled, "What do you mean what kind of '-key' am I ?!"
The Japanese said, "Are you a monkey, donkey or a Yankee?"

How do you guys think about the scenario: ESE vs. KEY. Dont want to offend anyone, but monkey and donkey could be the Incan and the Aztecs since they're also in continent of America

civn
Feb 11, 2006, 11:07 PM
Dude, I love civ too much, and I was so excited that VN civ is available.

But I was too disappointed when I see VC and the Hồ li face are solely represent VN. I don't reckon you take them out entirely since they're already part of VN history (unfortunately), you can keep them if you love them enut, but you can also putin some other well recognize and well respect and well deserved leader icon. This is the same issues that game developers faced when dealing with sensitive issues, so they stick to historical facts and show no favor.

Like the Nguyen family (Thanh Thai, Duy Tan...) or the Tran family (Tran Nhan Tong, Tran Thanh Ton...) or the Le family (Le Loi, Le Lai) or the Trung sisters or Ngo Quyen ... Those are the ppl who contributed greatly to our country and at least deserved a bow from our young generations.

This is one hill of a way to start a new year.

extraneus
Feb 12, 2006, 12:37 PM
in my opinion, the Vietnamese communism should only be considered as an option. Vietnamese is not all about communism, even Ho Chi Minh is widely considered a nationalist rather than a communist. Let's show people about the Vietnamese history, Vietnamese culture. People know enough about Vietnam War.

TRONBurger!
Feb 14, 2006, 01:55 AM
Cease nitpickery! As a first mod, I think this is particularly well done, and I think the UU is solid, considering infantry can be pretty useful in the game, whereas marines/Navy Seals are pretty inept against a tank/arty barrage.

The Q-Meister
Feb 22, 2006, 06:23 PM
Cease nitpickery! As a first mod, I think this is particularly well done, and I think the UU is solid, considering infantry can be pretty useful in the game, whereas marines/Navy Seals are pretty inept against a tank/arty barrage.


Thanks Tron! :goodjob: I appreciate it. Like I said, this was a first mod and I figured Ho Chi Minh would be, by far, the most internationally recognizable leader from Vietnam that everyone, everywhere knows about. I do not make any apologies about putting him into the game.

To those that wish to see different leaders: you need not complain or express disapointment - have you read the entire thread? I thought I deliberately explained that there WILL be additional leaders for the Vietnamese civilization, in fact, I directly asked (on more than one occasion I might add) for some ideas on new leaders so I may put it into the game.

On the Viet Cong being a derogatory name - Honestly, though I am no expert on the Vietnamese civilization, I never heard of that being so. I am someone who personally knows Vietnamese-Americans, have read the Vietnamese entry in Wikipedia as well as reading several books that at least touch on the Vietnamese war, again, I claim to be no expert but just letting you in my experience I have not heard of the Viet Cong being a derogatory name. (Even in this thread for example, there are Vietnamese here and no one has raised this up till now)

Yes, I am aware of the NLF being the "official" name however, I thought that the the National Liberation Front would be too long a name for the UU and the abbreviated "NLF" too short and boring.

It is interesting that on one end I am attacked for taking on a derogatory name of the Vietnamese, and on the other, for *only* including the "Communist" part of Vietnamese history (even though I said I would include additional leaders and would even consider making an entirely NEW Vietnamese Civ with a more ancient-pre-modern aspect to it for those who wished to play that)

That being said, I still appreciate all the feedback. I do no mean to use a derogatory name and if enough people feel that way, I will consider changing it as I want to celebrate the Vietnamese civilization and certainly not deride it (btw, have you read the Civilopedia entries for the Vietnam civ? They are certainly not favourable to the US! )

I will also once again assure everyone that new leaders are forthcoming.

The Q-Meister
Feb 22, 2006, 06:31 PM
I have personally contacted several veteran civ 4 moddern and they have given me some advice on the flag situation. I now have changed the alpha channel on the flag and hopefully this will work. Please let me know if it does.

Special Thanks to Wyz_Sub10, xonixs and Haarbal for their advice and input. Greatly appreciated. :goodjob: :D

This will be posted on the front page as well:

VIETNAM V1.25 (http://www.filegone.com/0t2o)

lightone
Feb 23, 2006, 06:53 AM
:goodjob: Good job man.I'm really happy to see this mod.
But bad news,the flag is still white:sad: :sad: .I ve try another mod.In israel and swiss mod i see their true flag.Hope you fix it soon. :D :D


May be my list will help you.
5 fav leaders are:

Chairman Ho Chi Minh
Tran Hung Dao
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tran_Hung_Dao
http://vietsciences.free.fr/vietnam/danhnhan/vua/images/tranhungdao.jpg
Emperor Hung (vua Hung)
Emperor Quang Trung (Nguyen hue)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tay_Son_Dynasty
King Le Thai To (Le Loi)

I wonder how to find acient leader pic.It really rare:confused:

List of greats leader

General Ly Thuong Kiet (the first general in south east asia dared to attack China and victoriously occupied the Canton region)
General Tran Quoc Toan
General Vuong Tien Dung
General Ba Xo
Emperor Quang Trung
General Vo Nguyen Giap
Lord of South Nguyen Hoang
Lord of North Trinh Kiem
Foreign Affair Secretary Le Duc Tho (nobel prize winner)
Great Artist Nguyen Trai (500 greats artist of all time Unicef)
Great Artist Nguyen Du (500 greats artist of all time Unicef)
Great Scientist Dr Ton That Tung (invention liver operation)
Great Scientist Dr Duong Nguyet Anh (actual head of RnD weapondry of US Navy, invention of "Mother Bomb", recently used in Iraq, Afganishtan)
Great Scientist Dr Eugene Trinh (actual head of Microgravity research division, NASA)
Great Scientist General Pham Tuan (first Vietnamese and asian astronaute, flew with Russian space shuttle)


UU
The Viet Cong, also known as the National Front for the Liberation of South Vietnam (Vietnamese Mặt Trận Dân Tộc Giải Phóng Miền Nam), (VC), the National Liberation Front (NLF), was the primary insurgent (partisan) organization fighting the US-allied Republic of Vietnam during the Vietnam War.

The VC claimed that it was a national front of all elements opposed to the existing government, whether communist or not. Its military organization was known as the People's Liberation Armed Forces (PLAF). The PLAF were, according to the official history of the (North) Vietnamese Army, strictly subordinated to the general staff in Hanoi. Their name "Viet Cong", (VC) came from the Vietnamese term for Vietnamese Communist (Việt Nam Cộng Sản). American forces typically refered to members of the NLF as "Charlie," which comes from the US Armed Forces' phonetic alphabet's pronunciation of VC ("Victor Charlie").

We don't call our army is "Viet Cong".For myself,i think Vietnam UU can be "Uncle Ho soldier"("Bộ đội cụ Hồ" in Vietnamese)for our main army .

"Vietnam guerrilla" is also a good name for our unique guerrilla.

Its town :

Ha Noi
Ho Chi Minh city (Sai Gon)
Hai Phong
Da Nang
Hue
Hoi An
Bien Hoa
Can Tho
Vung Tau
Nha Trang
Phan Thiet
Phan Rang
Vinh
Da Lat
Lang Son
and more in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam#Provinces

Koelle
Feb 23, 2006, 02:54 PM
I've (as Peter) just wiped out Uncle Ho :) (his VC made life difficult for me though), so i cant tell you if it works for now. About an alternative name for Vietcong, as the original may offend some people, i'd suggest "Biet Dong" (special forces). It would be funny to see Uncle Ho is the leader and his UU is "Uncle Ho's soldiers".

Changes i would like to see in the new version:
-New (Civ4-look) leaderhead, the current one is ugly
-Recognizeable characters for Uncle Ho: Tech-Racer, Trade-Lover, etc ... in every games i've played so far he was an warmonger. Rarely shared border with him so i didnt know exactly what happend but i always saw Vietnamese Empire captured this, razed that in game text
-As someone has mentioned, Uncle Ho was, above all, nationalism and the symbol of Nationalism Tech is the current flag of Vietnam so it would make sense if required techs for VC(Biet Dong) are rifling and nationalism(instead of communism)
-Uncle Ho always hates the Americans for some reason even if they share the same religions. I'm not sure if you made it on purpose but whenever (in my game) Washington starts near Ho's starting place, his days definitely are numbered. It should be changed

Wei-Yan
Feb 23, 2006, 08:13 PM
This is a very good mod Q-meister how about making Laos next plz:goodjob:

lightone
Feb 24, 2006, 04:32 AM
I've fix the "white flag" in my computer.:D Here the new file I've made.Hope it can useful for this mod.The key is change the alpha to black,change this alpha image to black too and hit the refresh button.:cool:

I have another idea about Vietnam unique unit.
How about a trap unit?Which can cause dam to every enemy units when they go through.Or it can hide in hill,forest or jungle and wait the enemy go close.This trap can use once time and be destroyed(for balance game).I think it will be a very special and tactical unit.:cool:



In history,Vietnamese many time won by using trap,using weather

1st Battle of Bạch Đằng Giang (白藤江): To defeat the Chinese army coming to supply aid to his rival, Ngô Vương cleverly planted iron spikes underneath the Bạch Đằng River and timed the attacked of the Southern Han navy. The attack began during high tide in order to conceal the spikes beneath the water and after a few hours of holding the enemy in place, the tides receded and the spikes impaled the boats. The Vietnamese forces followed this impalement with fire attacks, which annihilated the huge warships. The Southern Han navy and the Prince of Southern Han were killed
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/43/Bachdang.jpg/300px-Bachdang.jpg
Bach Dang battle:using trap and tide.

In 1285, Kublai Khan demanded passage through the kingdom of Dai Viet (in northern Vietnam) for his Yuan army on their invasion of the kingdom of Champa. When Dai Viet's king Tran Nhan Tong refused, the Mongol army, led by prince Toghan, attacked Dai Viet and seized the capital Thăng Long. Tran Hung Dao and other generals managed to protect the Royal Court, staying just ahead of the Mongol army in hot pursuit. When the Mongol army had been worn down with tropical diseases, Tran Hung Dao launched a counter-offensive. Most of the battles were on the waterfronts, where the Mongols could not use their cavalry strength. Mongol commander Sogetu of the southern front was killed in an ambush. In their withdrawal from Dai Viet, the Mongols were also attacked by the Hmong and Yao minorities in the northern regions.

In 1287, Kublai Khan again sent prince Toghan to lead another army into Dai Viet. This time, the Mongol supply fleet was ambushed and captured. Prince Toghan had to withdraw his army and fell into a trap set by Tran Hung Dao on Bach Dang rivermouth. The entire Mongol fleet was destroyed. Prince Toghan escaped, but his fleet commander, Omar, was captured.

And in war against USA,In Cu Chi tunnel,may be known as a big trap which the USA soilder meet many trouble.

ModernTank
Mar 01, 2006, 11:24 AM
Thanks Tron! :goodjob: I appreciate it. Like I said, this was a first mod and I figured Ho Chi Minh would be, by far, the most internationally recognizable leader from Vietnam that everyone, everywhere knows about. I do not make any apologies about putting him into the game.

To those that wish to see different leaders: you need not complain or express disapointment - have you read the entire thread? I thought I deliberately explained that there WILL be additional leaders for the Vietnamese civilization, in fact, I directly asked (on more than one occasion I might add) for some ideas on new leaders so I may put it into the game.

On the Viet Cong being a derogatory name - Honestly, though I am no expert on the Vietnamese civilization, I never heard of that being so. I am someone who personally knows Vietnamese-Americans, have read the Vietnamese entry in Wikipedia as well as reading several books that at least touch on the Vietnamese war, again, I claim to be no expert but just letting you in my experience I have not heard of the Viet Cong being a derogatory name. (Even in this thread for example, there are Vietnamese here and no one has raised this up till now)

Yes, I am aware of the NLF being the "official" name however, I thought that the the National Liberation Front would be too long a name for the UU and the abbreviated "NLF" too short and boring.

It is interesting that on one end I am attacked for taking on a derogatory name of the Vietnamese, and on the other, for *only* including the "Communist" part of Vietnamese history (even though I said I would include additional leaders and would even consider making an entirely NEW Vietnamese Civ with a more ancient-pre-modern aspect to it for those who wished to play that)

That being said, I still appreciate all the feedback. I do no mean to use a derogatory name and if enough people feel that way, I will consider changing it as I want to celebrate the Vietnamese civilization and certainly not deride it (btw, have you read the Civilopedia entries for the Vietnam civ? They are certainly not favourable to the US! )

I will also once again assure everyone that new leaders are forthcoming.

Viet Cong aka VC is not a derogatory name, it is a common usage(have been used by many foreign history text book).

I dont know why people cant keep politics out of the game. Game should be played and understood as it is just for "loisir" and "fantasy"...if the gamer act radical then dont play it...

For example: I dont play the game Viet Cong (i hate this game) from Take Two because i think it is a derogatory, a mockery, an insult to my country and it is a shame, a crime of conscience, to act as an American and massacre my own compatriotes.

Koelle
Mar 06, 2006, 04:54 AM
when does the next version come out? Cant wait for it

snapshooter
Mar 08, 2006, 03:06 AM
Thank you The Q-Meister for your great job. I've been waiting for this mod for a long long time. I'm just not good enough at these things to do it myself.

You said it's your first mod, but I can say it is very well-thought. Your choices of Ho Chi Minh as leader, Viet Cong as UU, traits and initial techs all make perfect sense. Even Civilopedia information is detail and accurate. BTW, as a 100% Vietnamese myself I don't see anything derogatory about using the name "Viet Cong". It is not their official name but I cannot think of any more convenient way to call them in a game.

As far as ancient leader is concerned, here are from top of my head right now, in preference order :
- Ngo Quyen ( he regained independence for Vietnam from 1000-year long of China's domination ).
- Tran Hung Dao ( the general who defeated Mongols during 13rd century and the only one in the whole Vietnam's history called Saint by Vietnamese ).
- Quang Trung ( he kicked Chinese out of Vietnam in 18th century and considered one of the most talented military brain in Vietnam's history ).
- Hai Ba Trung ( Trung Sisters who led a revolt against Chinese occupation in 39 A.D. They succeeded and became Queen for about 2 years before being defeated and drowned themselve. First recorded liberator in the history of Vietnam I believe. They are known for using war elephant ).

Looking forward to your update version. If I can help with anything, I will.

P.S : I too can only see the white flag in game. Not a big problem, just want to let you know.

freeman98
Mar 13, 2006, 06:26 AM
Thanks for your patch. It's wonderful :)

El-Presidente
Mar 15, 2006, 03:17 PM
As much as I don't like communist you have to give Uncle Ho & the Vietmease people some credit for there courage,determination and bravery during the illegal vietnam war. I will be downloading this civ anyone know if it overwrites any of the other civs or is it seperate?

snapshooter
Mar 16, 2006, 05:54 AM
Update on the flag issue :
I corrected it by changing the alpha channel to black AND the bWhiteFlag value from 0 to 1.
On the other hand, on my friend's laptop, the mod displays the flag correctly without any change ! Very funny indeed !

deserteagle1237
Mar 27, 2006, 11:30 AM
How about an option for the South Vietnamese flag?

Koelle
Mar 27, 2006, 04:10 PM
Since Uncle Ho is the only leader, i doubt that the former South Vietnam's flag would be an option. Might be in the next version when there're also ancient leaders or in Vietnam War Mod (should anyone create it, of course). But everything has been quiet lately :(

deserteagle1237
Mar 28, 2006, 07:01 PM
Since Uncle Ho is the only leader, i doubt that the former South Vietnam's flag would be an option. Might be in the next version when there're also ancient leaders or in Vietnam War Mod (should anyone create it, of course). But everything has been quiet lately :(
I meant like an alternate file that you can switch in if you want. I think if my relatives saw the red flag with one yellow star they wouldn't be happy if you know what I mean

yexusbeliever
Apr 04, 2006, 06:59 PM
Hmm... I was thinking this sounds so much like a North Vietnam mod only. LOL. But I guess since South Vietnam did lost, it was not considered existed as a recognized country to the North Vietnam history.

Koelle
Apr 06, 2006, 05:30 AM
It's Vietnam mod and Vietnam history dude. No north or south here as well as no north and south America civilizations and no west and east Germany civilizations. About the mod, if you try the original version, you might only see the white flag instead of red. But the leader is still Ho Chi Minh and the UU is still VC so your relatives wont be happy anway. Btw this is my game and i play what i want and dont care if anyone wouldn't happy about it

yexusbeliever
Apr 06, 2006, 11:46 AM
It is not thing like that. I am glad there is this mod. I am not Vietnamese, but it is interesting how the victor of war will write history. :D

Leif
Apr 18, 2006, 10:04 AM
I think Southern Vietnam belongs in a Vietnam scenario, it's favorite civic being police state.

Or it could be just another leaderhead.

One way or another, I look forwards to seeing what comes next.

civn
May 06, 2006, 07:40 PM
Let's keep up with history, an additional bonus to Communism civ is warriors look like farmers as below.

That's really cool where your empire look like peaceful so you can declare war on unsuspected leaders. Even if you're at war with them, they wouldn't know who to attack. They can mistakenly attack your reall farmers and waste a turn. Then your real warriors (who looks like farmer) just take out the offending warriors in the same turn :lol: . They wouldn't be able to tell if you bring maceman, pikeman, ... cause they all look like farmsers.

http://img276.imageshack.us/img276/5153/civ4screenshot00306av.jpg

deserteagle1237
May 07, 2006, 06:20 PM
Except that you can click on units and look at their names.

kienkdtt
Jun 06, 2006, 09:24 PM
I am Vietnamese, too. Thank for your MOD. I played CIV IV long time ago from CIV I, but only single mode. Now, I want to play with other players. Who can create room and invite me?

Hadrean
Jun 09, 2006, 12:19 AM
Do YOU still need that authentic veitnamese music/sounds?? I might have something.

deserteagle1237
Jun 22, 2006, 10:39 AM
When are you updating this?

Hadrean
Jun 28, 2006, 09:50 PM
I beleive that you should include a south vietnamese leader and an optional south vietnamese flag because I hate communists and communism and always will...for the rest of my life.

Leif
Jun 28, 2006, 10:04 PM
I don't believe there is going to be an update, much less one with Southern Vietnamese stuff.

CF4L
Jul 01, 2006, 03:24 PM
I forgot to mention, I consider Uncle Ho the greatest leader of Vietnam. He was the mastermind behind defeating Japan, France, South Vietnam and the USA. It is also a great tragedy that he died of old age before he was able to see his country independent.

Also I don't mind your Viet Cong unit as it is. Works fine for me but the 30% upgrade with x2 movement in forest also seems more logical as 20% seems underpowered with units like 'cossacks' who are +3 strength and 50% vs. cavalry.

"uncle Hoe" did not defeat the US the US defeated the US.After Tet Ho had very little and was on the defensive. Not one US unit Surendered . So why did we loose you ask? Its simple ,we lost the propaganda war and had poor leadership in the whitehouse. Traitor Fonda dident help much either. Our rules of engagement prevented us from winning its that simple. The South Vietnamese were just as well trained but when we pulled out we also (quite stupidly) neglected to keep suplies coming to the southern Vietnamese

As far as the civ goes If your gonna make an ancient version or an earlier UU i would suggest the UU be Montagnards . just m 2 cents

Koelle
Jul 02, 2006, 09:49 AM
Whatever! You dont need to convince anyone that you won. Anyway, US go home! :D Btw, Montagnards are a minority ethnic group, who USED to live in Vietnam, not a UU

ronnybiggs
Jul 17, 2006, 06:26 PM
Um the South Veitnamese could hardly be called a civilization since they were a willing colony fo the US. The North Vietnamese were a nationalist movement in every sense of the word.

Awesome mod. My only critique is make sure your UU's units aren't TOO powerful. Infantry with two movement and ambush is quite a boost.

Moonsinger
Aug 02, 2006, 05:07 PM
-Emperor Quang Trung: the greatest vietnamese military strategist in my opinion. In his short reign, he managed to unite North and South Vietnam and defeated Siam's navy as well as 300.000 Chinese Qing troops in a blitz-krieg attack. He died at the age of 40 while preparing to conquer chinese provinces Guangdong and Guangxi, once vietnamese territories. He was the only one among the Viet to have dreamt of the conquest of China. He was also the only one capable of succeeding, for his military genius was unmatched. Here's an article about him: http://greenfield.fortunecity.com/crawdad/204/nguyenhue.html


IMO, he should be the leader of the Vietnamese civ.:goodjob: As for the UU, may I recommend the farmer. Unlike the Indian fast workers, the farmer is just an average worker, but he gets tripple the speed bonus for clearing jungles and building farm; he also have double movement points on jungles and forests.;)

Torwaechter
Nov 22, 2006, 09:15 AM
Greetings, Q-Meister!

I just discovered your mod, couldn't give it a try yet, though, since I'm at work at the moment. :)

Like some others here I was somehow offended at first, to see the communist flag and Uncle Ho as the leader (I'm descendant of Vietnamese refugees, born in Germany)

After some thoughts about it I could live with Ho, though you can't call him primarely a nationalist as several stated here. He was also a 100% communist. Fighting for national freedom and establishing a people's republic were his goals - he never considered a democracy.

But he was a great leader, so it's fine for me. It's not the same like with Adolf Hitler, who was also a great leader, but utterly destroyed Germany's culture and people.

One change I would absolutely recommend is the flag. The communist flag has no cultural background and is clearly bound to the communist system existing today. I don't think that it suits as a symbol for the Vietnamese culture as a whole.
You should consider taking yellow as the civilization's colour, as this was the traditional sign of Vietnamese for ages. You could also just take the flag with the three red stripes, which the South Vietnamese Republic took from the emperors, but it's also quite modern.

It was also used by some Vietminh forces fighting against Imperial Japan in the Second World War and against France in the First Indochina War. I think it was even the flag which was raised after victory at Dien Bien Phu, but I'm not sure. Ho Chi Minh was the leader of the Vietminh movement, but it wasn't a 100% communist organisation. Not too few were just nationalists or freedom fighters, who only later became communists by joining the 100% communist Vietcong after the establishing of the South Vietnamese Republic by France and the United States.

Please have a look at these articles as reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_the_Republic_of_Vietnam
http://www.vpac-usa.org/flag/The%20National%20Flag%20of%20VN.pdf
http://www.worldstatesmen.org/Vietnam.html
http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/vn_early.html
http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/vn-south.html


EDIT:
Perhaps it would be a good idea to change the UU's name from "Viet Cong" to "Viet Minh" since Vietnamese jungle guerilla tactics were not invented in the Second Indochina War but already long before in the preceeding wars.

Koelle
Nov 23, 2006, 11:23 AM
Like some others here I was somehow offended at first, to see the communist flag and Uncle Ho as the leader (I'm descendant of Vietnamese refugees, born in Germany)

It seems that being born in Germany doesnt make you be any diffenrent from your parents.

One change I would absolutely recommend is the flag. The communist flag has no cultural background and is clearly bound to the communist system existing today. I don't think that it suits as a symbol for the Vietnamese culture as a whole.

I agree with you that the flag has no cultural background. But where on earth do the flags have cultural background. Dont tell me that the stupid looking 3 colors flags in europe have it.


You should consider taking yellow as the civilization's colour, as this was the traditional sign of Vietnamese for ages. You could also just take the flag with the three red stripes, which the South Vietnamese Republic took from the emperors, but it's also quite modern.

Yellow has never been considered as the color of Vietnam. The Viets flag(similarily to the Chinese flag) has always been red for most of the time. If you know Vietnamese and ever read any ancient Vietnamese book, you will see these words so often: "ngon co dao" which means red flag. Sorry but i have to say the SVR and the emperors of the Nguyen dynasty, whom the SVR took the flag from, were the most disgraceful periods in Vietnam's history, where the leaders got to power not by themselves but by the help of foreigners, which had never happened before. It's insulting if anyone ever considers it as the flag of Vietnam as a whole

It was also used by some Vietminh forces fighting against Imperial Japan in the Second World War and against France in the First Indochina War. I think it was even the flag which was raised after victory at Dien Bien Phu, but I'm not sure.

The First Indochina War was fought by the Democratic Republic of Vietnam and the flag was the same as the current flag of Vietnam. Theres neither such thing called South Vietnam nor the yellow flag at that time. Those Viet refugees who said they fought at Dien Bien Phu are liers who dont want the others think of them as bitter pathetic losers who never win anything

Ho Chi Minh was the leader of the Vietminh movement, but it wasn't a 100% communist organisation. Not too few were just nationalists or freedom fighters, who only later became communists by joining the 100% communist Vietcong after the establishing of the South Vietnamese Republic by France and the United States.

oh yeah, you (and your parents) must have been very proud living in a state established by anyone else rather than your own people

Torwaechter
Nov 23, 2006, 02:09 PM
It seems that being born in Germany doesnt make you be any diffenrent from your parents.

Whereever you are born, the influence of your parents is ever the same.
And since the Federal Republic of Germany is not a communist regime, but a liberal Democracy, it's also not unusual to become a Democrat here.


But where on earth do the flags have cultural background. Dont tell me that the stupid looking 3 colors flags in europe have it.

Many of these stupid colors have a symbolic tradition in those countries. And don't forget all the crosses, or coat of arms, or eagles.
Don't get me wrong - red can become the new tradition of Viet Nam, but yellow is de facto the older tradition. We're not talking of the future, we're playing Civilization, and that's history. If I start in 3000 BC with a Vietnamese tribe, then the communist/modern red flag just does not feel right to me. It's just merely 50 years old.


Yellow has never been considered as the color of Vietnam.

Did you read the articles? The color yellow derives from an old flag of the Vietnamese Emperor. It is not the product of foreign influence.
And please note also, that almost all of the old Emperors stood in strong opposition to French colonialists and Christian missionaries (Gia Long not that much, but then starting from Minh Mang to his grandson Tu Duc and finally Ham Nghi). The Emperor's Flag was the banner with which his soldiers fought against the French at the end of the 19th century.
The yellow flag with the stripes was then later established by the "good" Emperor Thanh Thai and continued by his son Duy Tan, who both tried to free their country under this first national flag, but were exiled by the French before they could start.
If you face reality you should see that the yellow flag does also stand for Vietnamese independence and freedom. Thus, it was not surprising why the South Vietnamese Republic decided to take it as its flag. It's the same with West Germany, re-establishing Black-Red-Gold since they're the colors of German democrats.

And speaking of China - there is also an old yellow one here and the 5-colored flag of the first Republic with its strong symbolism:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Chinese_flags#Historical_national_flags



The First Indochina War was fought by the Democratic Republic of Vietnam and the flag was the same as the current flag of Vietnam. Theres neither such thing called South Vietnam nor the yellow flag at that time.

There was no South Vietnam, yes, but there were nationalists among the Viet Minh, who waved the old flag of Viet Nam. Ho Chi Minh didn't found Viet Minh on scratch - he united all the *existing* liberation forces under one command. Many of those were communist, yes, but there were also non-communist groups and persons.


oh yeah, you (and your parents) must have been very proud living in a state established by anyone else rather than your own people

We're not proud, but we're certainly glad to live in a liberal country where you are not put into prison just by surfing on the "wrong" websites.
No people should be proud of its state just because it was created by itself - you can only be proud of states which really do deserve this honour.
Plus, you should not forget that a democracy lives from contribution, and therefor it is easily possible for immigrants to be proud of their new home. The United States of America are the best example for strong patriotism among their immigrants.
Germany is probably one of the worst countries in terms of integration, but that's another story.

dazman92
Dec 03, 2006, 01:42 PM
is there a warlords version up yet?

Wyz_sub10
Dec 04, 2006, 02:08 AM
is there a warlords version up yet?

Not sure the author is still active, but there is a Vietnamese civ in CIV Gold for Warlords.

Waterchan
Dec 04, 2006, 10:27 PM
I hope the work for this mod is still progressing. I recently introduced my girlfriend to Civilization 4. She's Vietnamese, and when I told her about the existence of a Vietnamese mod, she was excited.

I noticed the units don't speak Vietnamese yet. It would be very nice if they did. :)

jkp1187
Jan 27, 2007, 05:27 PM
Viet Cong, I love it. That's the derisive term coined by angry US politicians.

Yeah, um, actually, this was a term coined by Ngo Dinh Diem -- an abbreviation of Viet Nam Cong San. (Apologies for my lack of competence with the accents used in Quoc Ngu...)

Thanks, though; I appreciate the blind prejudice of some of the posters in this thread!

--An Ignorant American

Okima
Aug 10, 2008, 03:38 PM
umm guys i need help downloading this whenever i click on the download thingy it goes to a diff website

mamba
Aug 10, 2008, 04:36 PM
Maybe the fact that the website is called www.filegone.com should tell you something (that and that the last post was January 2007).

Get Civ Gold (http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=217) if you need a Vietnam.

MadmanOfALeader
Aug 10, 2008, 05:00 PM
This flag issue is pretty controversial...

The old flag is currently banned in Vietnam. As a result, I've turned the seal of Hanoi into a decal.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/3/39/Logo_Hanoi.jpg/100px-Logo_Hanoi.jpg