Which Civ shall we choose, i appreciate right now im the only one even in the team but i can still have the threads ready.

opinions and reasons would be good, were going to need a good early civ, with a possible ancient or at least classic era Uu.

RegentMan and I will inform the teams on how to go about picking their civs. It will probably be something similar to picking a top 3 or 5 list, which we will then use to get each time what they hopefully have as their 1st choice. For now, I guess you can discuss some possibilities, but nothing definite yet.

K doke well just wanted to get discussion started, not like we would have had a team by the time you and regentman had decided on how it would work :)

I like Saladin or Isabella mainly because of benefits of spiritual. Their UU are quite good especially when you mix in cats and spearmen.

The only reason to get a religion is for the happinest bonus, so it wont be quite as important in this game since we cant win allies with our religion.

luxuries however could overcome the object of happiness if that is the only reason as to why we would choose a spiritual. could you remind me what their 2 Uu's are and just whereabouts in the tech tree you can get them?

Saladin is the camel archer replacing night. Isabella's is the conquisdor replacing knight also. Its probably a little late for what you wanted and I dont really know how quickly these demo team games go.

Whats more important in these games a good strong early UU or better leader qualities? IN other words can we expect lots of war early or do people have a tendency to wait a bit.

well its all new for civ4 so im not really too sure but in civ3 MTDG its turn 90 something and we've just left the ancient age during which time we as the persians have been involved in a 20 odd turn war with the iroqi maybe a bit more maybe a bit less, so an early one may be more usefull such as Alexander or someone along them lines.

If this game goes long a Finacial civ would be helpful...
However I think cultural and militaristic would give the most immediate impact, and this is pangea so it could turn into a war game

Based on black hole said I would go with Catherine. You have creative so there is no hurry for cultural buildings and you have financial for later on if we go to later in the game. With cossacks you get mid game UU.

I would stay away from Persia, Mali and Mongolia becasue teh UU is too early in my opinion.

One idea is maybe we should start a poll with all the civs and vote for our top 5.

civ list (http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/civilizations/)

My instincts tell me to go for a civ with mysticism to stop other civs from seeing our territory, but as you pointed out, religion won't affect diplomacy (directly, it may end up still being important, after all, no sense being unfriendly with someone who sees your every move). but I think we may not have too much problem eventually getting a later religion. A lack of religion could be overcome with the creative trait, which gives +2 culture per city, overcoming the lack of expansion we would get from the +1 state religion.

I would like Mongolia's Kublai Khan.
It's aggressive (Free Combat I promotion of melee and gunpowder units. Double production speed of Barracks and Drydock.) and creative (+2 culture per city. Double production speed of Theater and Coliseum.) it starts with Hunting (build scout, spearman, build camp), and The Wheel (build road, construct chariot), and it's UU is the Keshik. Not the greatest UU and starting techs, but the traits more than make up for it.

Based on black hole said I would go with Catherine. You have creative so there is no hurry for cultural buildings and you have financial for later on if we go to later in the game. With cossacks you get mid game UU.

I would stay away from Persia, Mali and Mongolia becasue teh UU is too early in my opinion.

One idea is maybe we should start a poll with all the civs and vote for our top 5.
I agree with you on Catherine, but only for pangea... If we are on islands or archipelago we don't need to worry about expanding early so the creative bonus is useless... However Finacial is a must on water maps, because it gives all water squares another gold

Here are ones I like to use:

Elizabeth - Philisophical & Finacial
Victoria - Expansive & Finacial
Catherine - Creative & Finacial
Peter - Philosphical & Expansive

But if we play on pangea I would have to rethink this, I think Genghis (Aggressive and Expansive) or Kublai(Aggressive and Creative) would be good choices if we know there will be an early war, but if we don't get into an early war they aren't nearly as good.
Another one would be inca which is aggressive and finacial IRIC, which helps with the military and economy

Incan has the UU instead of warriors..completely useless in my mind.

Mongolia also has a real early UU but I havent played them much to get a feel for it.

Aztecs are agressive get an early UU (swordsman that doesn't require iorn but loses 1 strength)

The Romans have the most powerfull UU before macemen (and even then). (planix, swordsman with 8 strength).

The Romans would require iorn for their UU but they are very powerful.

So where does that leave us? I think we mentioned half of the civs so far.:crazyeye:

Aztec is another I havent played extensively. But I worry that their UU is essentially a city raider axman that doesnt require copper. The only good thing is we would get an combat 1 promotion to start without baracks. It seems like you penalize yourself if you have iron nearby by not having the swordsmen available but would be good if there is lots of jungle or no iron.

Well i dont mind polling it but with so few of us would really be pretty pointless.
Basically we need a shortlist of about 3 but probably best 5. after looking down this thread we have:
Alexander (Greek): Aggressive Philo with Uu of Phalanx
Kublai Khan (Mongol): aggressive creative Uu of Keshik
Catherine (Russia): creative financial Uu Cossack
Genghis (Mongol): Aggressive expansive Uu of Keshik
Huayna Capac (Incan): Aggressive Financial Uu of Quechua (sp?)
Monty (Aztec): Agressive Spiritual Uu of Jaguar
Caesar(Roman): Organized Expansive Uu of praetorian.

Now if this is to be played on pangae war is inevitable and so i dont think we should play as a civ that doesnt have an aggressive trait with the possible exception of the Romans as their Uu is immense, i also believe that Russia's Uu comes too late in the game to be of any real use. I think that any civ's Uu that is in exchange of a warrior is also a bit pointless unless we are on a tiny map, so imo my top 3 would be Alexandar, Kublai Khan and Caesar, though in what order i am not sure.

it should be noted that Mongolia's UU is next to useless (but the traits are still great!). my top 3 would be:

1) Kublai
2) Monty
3) Caesar

I've only had experience with a few civ, but i did like playing with alexander because of the philosophical trait. I think it could be useful to have it especially if there are early wars then we can use the culture bomb to secure new territory if needed or expand current territory for a better line of sight hence making a surprise attack difficult for others to achieve against us

Well i dont mind polling it but with so few of us would really be pretty pointless.
Basically we need a shortlist of about 3 but probably best 5. after looking down this thread we have:
Alexander (Greek): Aggressive Philo with Uu of Phalanx
Kublai Khan (Mongol): aggressive creative Uu of Keshik
Catherine (Russia): creative financial Uu Cossack
Genghis (Mongol): Aggressive expansive Uu of Keshik
Huayna Capac (Incan): Aggressive Financial Uu of Quechua (sp?)
Monty (Aztec): Agressive Spiritual Uu of Jaguar
Caesar(Roman): Organized Expansive Uu of praetorian.

Now if this is to be played on pangae war is inevitable and so i dont think we should play as a civ that doesnt have an aggressive trait with the possible exception of the Romans as their Uu is immense, i also believe that Russia's Uu comes too late in the game to be of any real use. I think that any civ's Uu that is in exchange of a warrior is also a bit pointless unless we are on a tiny map, so imo my top 3 would be Alexandar, Kublai Khan and Caesar, though in what order i am not sure.
Add Elizabeth and Victoria to the list, if its pangea/islands those are probably the best

alex, caesar and catherine were the winners of the poll
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=158608
a run off poll will probably be needed to see which is our first choice, however we should probably have some discussion first.

my choices go like this
ceasar
alex
catherine

mainly because i like the praetorian Uu of the Romans.

Ceasar
catherine
alex

Catherine would be my first choice

Letss repoll the top 4. The 3 that got 4 and the other one that got 3 votes. Only let us vote for 2.

cesaer
alex
cathy

alex
cathy
salad man

OK so far whats been posted.
Name then rankings so far( not in order)

Ceasar 1 1 1 -
Alex - 2 3 -
Cath 2 3 2 1
Salad 3 - - -

average rank for each( dashes counted as 4)
Ceasar 0.75 (2.3)
Alex 1.25 (3.25)
Catherine 2.0 (2.0)
Salad 0.75 (3.75)

In my mind it looks like Ceasar, Catherine and then Alex

If you remove everyone 3rd choice. You wil see that you have 3 votes for Ceasar, 3 votes for Catherine and 1 vote for Alex. The tie breaker between Ceasar and Catherine is the number of first place votes.

Anyone disagree with this assestment? I propose we turn in out list as follows.
1. Ceasar
2. Catherine
3. Alex
4. Saladin(????) other??

I thik we can win with any of these four.

alex
cathy
salad man


you meant ceasar didnt you not Saladin like I thought...Still doesnt change the outcome, but I feel dumb.

lol, well we need 5 so there was 4 which got more votes than everyone else :) and maybe even random for 5th??? :D

you meant ceasar didnt you not Saladin like I thought...Still doesnt change the outcome, but I feel dumb.

Sorry for the confusion, i was just having some fun but i did mean ceasar:)

ok, first of all hello.

i am sry, that i post this late on this issue, but i didnt see the thread befor. i just want to mention few things:
u should consider, that this is a game vs human players. the first choice in a game vs AI isnt automatically the best for this type of contest. i would really take into consideration, choosing an Industrious Leader. we wont be able to conquer Wonders as we would do vs AIs and we will have hard times building any of the key wonders (pyramids,library,SH...), while another team holding Industrious .plus it realy hurts other teams, when we catch them building early wonders. also i think most good wonders are worth as much as most of the civ bonuses.

the second point i have is,
that imho Agriculture is essential most of the time when u go BW. together with mining its nuff to keep ur worker bussy. early food recources, are the key to be able to spam some cottages, without loosing growingspeed in our core cities later on.

considering the thoughts above:
Qin Shi Huang would be my first choice and Louis XIV my second, cuz musketeers are a bit late.

i hope its not too late to take this into cosideration.

when i think ur choises over, i come to the conclusion, that i would prefer Catherine over the other, since imo creativ helps alot to ensure we get access to early resources and more important early and much forest.

why is that so important?
it is, cuz when we go into an early war with another team and get cought by doing so, we get ****ed up from behind. since all know this, imo this game will have a very agressive start. workers and settlers, will get capured, if there is a possibility to do so and not appropriate guarded citys too. but than a short phase of stagnation will take place (which we should use to get some wonders providing us an edge in midgame), cuz no team wants to moonshine his back, without haveing a working economy. if a team gets under pressure, be sure there are 3 teams willing to do anything to get an advantage out of the situation. so we need extrem fast teching n chopping early n fast growth afterward.


ok thats it.

ps. sry for the weird n bad language.

ok i did some researches in the strategie forum and on some other civ4 boards and came to the conclusion, that Industrious (beside the production bonus appeals to chops used for building wonders aswell) is essential. the edge we get by building early worldwonders (and nationalwonders) and the disadvantage by not doing it, is gamebreaking.
just want to point out that we really need to discuss this further.

OK dlab since you came late to the team. What are your suggestions. Remember we want an early but not too early UU.( ie Incans)

To me there is no perfect Civ. You must be able to use each to there own advantages and alot of that depends on your map start and how you want to play.

We have to repoll this soon but I think after this weekend we can do that. Some of the variables about the map will be decided by the UN by then.

Discussion is good..gets us thinking.

I think we should change the way we are voting. Every member should pick their top 5 leaders, in order. Every 5th place vote gets 1pt, every 4th place vote gets 2pt, etc. Once ranked, the top five leaders are our picks in order. This is similar to how things like MLB MVP get voted. It wouldn't be in a poll thread, just a normal thread where everyone posts their list.

1. Kublai Kahn
2. Frederic
3. Napoleon
4. Catherine