I've got acouple of ideas on how to start up the DG2-like RPG again, just without the huge amount of management involved. If I'm doing the calculations right, it shouldn't take more than myself to operate the entire game. Of course, if BCLG is interested... I'll be perfectly happy to share the workload :p.

Anyway, who's interested?

-- Strider, Father Of The Demogame RPG

I am interested so long as it does not become drowned out in economic simish level.

I am interested so long as it does not become drowned out in economic simish level.

My plan right now, is just to start with the 'basics.' Start off small, build up as time goes on.

Sounds cool, but could someone explain it to me, i don't no anything prior to the formation of the Civ4 demogame.

Sounds cool, but could someone explain it to me, i don't no anything prior to the formation of the Civ4 demogame.

You can check out the orginal RPG here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=82).

Basically, it's a simulation. You take the role as a single citizen within the demogame (the actual game... you have to use your imagination ;))

The original DG2 RP was interesting, although heavily skewed towards the landed gentry. A lot like real life in that respect, actually. Once you bought land, it was kinda difficult for anyone else to get any. If you could find a way to make it more accessible to everyone Strider, I'd take part! Maybe even start up the old Fanatikan Football League (or some derivation.) ~_^

guess im a father too, me you and shaitan, i liked the economic side to the rpg2 however did require a lot of management, ill be willing to help, PM me or post your ideas we'll take a looksee at it all.

The original DG2 RP was interesting, although heavily skewed towards the landed gentry. A lot like real life in that respect, actually. Once you bought land, it was kinda difficult for anyone else to get any. If you could find a way to make it more accessible to everyone Strider, I'd take part! Maybe even start up the old Fanatikan Football League (or some derivation.) ~_^

Here's what I'm thinking:

Cut out the old method of your income depending upon your office. Instead, income is based on a "virtue" point system. Each RPG member, receives one virtue point at the start of the game (1 merit point = 10 gpt). Your rewarded additional virtue points for various activities.

To keep the time-consuming management down, the your income is rewarded weekly (instead of based on a turnchat). So, instead of updating the bank three times a week, it'll only get updated once a week. Also, add in an "inactivity" period. Basically, if your account is inactive for two weeks (without you actually sending a PM.. or posting that your be away), the account is closed. No getting it back. That way, only the people who are actually playing the game gets an update.

Also... the idea is to move slowly. Start off with just basic tournaments, etc. Expand to allow business's, land management, etc. as time goes on. Also, with the land management... selling land off in "blocks" instead of tile-by-tile would cut down time alot also. ;)

Make it simple, no complex you get ?? gold for owning that tile, etc.

I'd like to bring in the old merit/flaw and stats system, for use in tournaments and storylines.

about the tile by tile thing if we are going to use it we can use it that way as this is civ4, we will probably not have the huge gaping empire we had in civ2 simply due to the amount of money it would cost to run it, so tile by tile can still work very nicely.

We should defenately have the land tiles be more accessable to all partisipants. For me, I am already invisoning on creating a small Papal State in the RPG.

I am some what interested in this, but unfortunately I did not join during the Golden Age of RPG, I was in during the Decline and also of the decline of the SPDG for Civ fullstop.

Ah you missed out but was very good partially because we had the rpg slave that is Shaitan, we wont have him this time and if we are going to get someone/s to run the rpg could be very time consuming.

Basically hers how i could see the rpg running to begin with.
starting money of whatever
can buy land for prices and can then use this to get more money
story threads can gain extra money i.e. if its good
prizes for rpg'ers gain extra money

so far that can be it and see if that works well and then we can just build from there.

Looks like we've got plenty of interest, I'll start drafting up some rules and try to see if I can get it moving!

Looks like we've got plenty of interest, I'll start drafting up some rules and try to see if I can get it moving!

well we can use a fair portion of the DG2 ruleset, wont be tonnes to change from there, no need to create a new one from scratch.

well we can use a fair portion of the DG2 ruleset, wont be tonnes to change from there, no need to create a new one from scratch.

Well, I plan on incorporating the merit/flaws and stats system from the story-based RPG.

well for the land, money thing we can base that on DG2 rpg

Okay, here's the draft I just made up for the character creation process:

Character Creation:
Getting Started:
There are three general aspects in creating a character. The first one is the basic info, the second is choosing your stats, and the third is choosing your merits/flaws.

Step One:
To start off, you have to give give your character the following:

Name (we much prefer if you give your character a name similiar (or exactly the same) to your forum name)
Age
Gender
*Biography/Physical Appearance

*Means it's an optional field.

Choosing your Stats:
Your stats are ranked from 4 to a maximum of 10 (all characters start off with a 2 in every stat.) When you create your character, you have 10 points to put into any mix of stats that you want. This is permanent and can not be changed. You will also not recieve any additional points to put in stats, so choose wisely. The stats are as follows:

Strength (STR)
Agility (AGI)
Intelligence (INT)
Wisdom (WIS)
Endurance (END)
Bravery (BRV)
Control (CTL)
Sense (SNS)
Stamina (STM)

Merits/Flaws
Merits/Flaws are a way to add some spice to your character. They also effect your stats. Merits/Flaws are completely optional, but for every merit you take.. you must take a flaw. You can take up to a maximum of 3 merits. The bonus to taking merits/flaws are that only by receiving stat bonus's through merits/flaws can you get over the maximum number of 10. You do not have to use the merit/flaws system. If you do choose some merits/flaws then you may get rewarded for playing your character by them. (IE: If you choose the merit Calm Heart, and the flaw Hard of hearing.. having your character "yell" in situtations that need silence may get you rewarded).

Warning: The merits/flaws system is complex, so if you want to just jump right in you can skip it. You will be allowed to come back and choose some after you've created your character.


Merits:
Photographic Memory (+ 1 INT)
Code of Honor (+1 BRV)
Common Sense (+1 WIS)
Concentration (+1 CTL)
Calm Heart (+1 CTL)
Self-Confident (+1 CTL)
Ambidextrous (+1 AGI)
Daredevil (+1 BRV)
Perfect Balance (+1 AGI)
Jack-Of-All-Trades (+1 INT)
True Love (+1 BRV)
Danger Sense (+1 SNS)
True Faith (+1 CTL)
Huge Size (+1 END)
Driving Goal (+1 BRV)
Double-jointed (+1 AGI)


Flaws:
Compulsion (-1 CTL)
Nightmares (-1 BRV)
Overconfident (-1 CTL)
Phobia (-1 CTL)
Low-self Image (-1 CTL)
Deranged (-1 WIS)
Hatred (-1 CTL)
Amnesia (-1 WIS)
Confused (-1 INT)
Weak-Willed (-1 BRV)
Absent-Minded (-1 WIS)
Hard of Hearing (-1 SNS)
Bad Sight (-1 SNS)
Uneducated (-1 INT)
Insane Past Life (-1 CTL)
Twisted Upbringing (-1 CTL)
Mute (-1 SNS)
Short (-1 STR)
Self Centered (-1 WIS)
Gullible (-1 WIS)
Simpleton (-1 INT)
Short Fuse (-1 CTL)
Curiosity (-1 SNS)
Color Blindness (-1 SNS)
Inept (-1 INT)

-------

Your now done creating your character!

Now, I would like to expand on the merit/flaw system a hell of alot more than this. I would like to have literally hundreds of them. That way no character is the same. Also, the merit/flaw system is a perfect way to award virtue points. If someone is actually playing their character by the merit/flaws they choose (and not just choosing them for the stat bonus's) then we can give you virtue points.

maybe an explanation of what each thing is for the main 'skills' also endurance and stamina is a bit too similar for my liking.

Nice draft, Like the merit flaws sytem, but more need to be added( I know your going too, just commenting)

I agree thats the skills need a bit of explaining,

And

What happens if you stats go below zero, like a take two strenght minusing flaws, and i have only 2 strength to begin with

Nice draft, Like the merit flaws sytem, but more need to be added( I know your going too, just commenting)

I agree thats the skills need a bit of explaining,

And

What happens if you stats go below zero, like a take two strenght minusing flaws, and i have only 2 strength to begin with

Basically, the stats will be rolled based on that numner (IE: If you have a STR of 6... and are in a "contest of strength" that basically means you get a random number between 1-6. If the person your fighting has a STR of 4.. then they get a random number of 1-4. So yes, you can roll a 2... and they can roll a 4.. and you would lose.. even though you do have the higher STR bonus).

To answer your question, if you have a 1 or 0 inside of a stat, there is just no possibility of winning any competition.

To explain the differance between Stamina and Endurance, basically Stamina is your physical condition, and endurance is your pain tolerance.

yer but why not just combine them, simplicity means we can attract more people as we dont want to make things too complicated, which is why right now we have enough merits and flaws and can just add more as the game progresses.

yer but why not just combine them, simplicity means we can attract more people as we dont want to make things too complicated, which is why right now we have enough merits and flaws and can just add more as the game progresses.

Sorry, I've been busy the past couple of days.

Anyway, yeah.. your point is vaild. They've been combined ;).

I'll start working on what each merit/flaw/stat means sometime soon. Hopefully I can get the income portion of the rules written up soon also.

Well, damn. I had an extremely busy weekend... so I didn't have time to do the final rule draft.

I'll try to get it done as soon as possible.

The economy portion of the ruleset:


Obtaining Money and the RPG Economy:
You automatically start off with two virtue point, just by signing up inside of the registry. A "virtue point" is a tally that is awarded by RPG Game admins or DG Mods (for good behavior). Virtue points may also be removed as a form of punishment. One virtue point equals 20 gold per turn, so if you have 3 virtue points then you will be get 60 gold every week (the bank is updated weekly).

Gold can be used to buy items, property, etc.

It's short, but as we don't plan on allowing private business's at the moment, there isn't much more to add.

Okay, here's a draft of the overall ruleset. We can add in other portions at a later date in time. I believe this should be the starting point of our efforts though. I combined Endurance and Stamina, and added a descripition to each stat. I plan on doing the same for merits/flaws later on, but there is a hell of alot of them.

Character Creation:
Getting Started:
There are three general aspects in creating a character. The first one is the basic info, the second is choosing your stats, and the third is choosing your merits/flaws.

Step One:
To start off, you have to give give your character the following:

Name (we much prefer if you give your character a name similiar (or exactly the same) to your forum name)
Age
Gender
*Biography/Physical Appearance

*Means it's an optional field.

Choosing your Stats:
Your stats are ranked from 2 to a maximum of 10 (all characters start off with a 2 in every stat.) When you create your character, you have 10 points to put into any mix of stats that you want. This is permanent and can not be changed. You will also not recieve any additional points to put in stats, so choose wisely. The stats are as follows:

Strength (STR)
Your overall physical poweress.

Agility (AGI):
Your speed, dexterity, and reflexes.

Intelligence (INT):
Basically your mental processing power. How fast you think.

Wisdom (WIS):
The amount of information you know.

Endurance (END):
Ability to withstand pain and hardship.

Bravery (BRV):
The ability to reactive under fear or nervousness.

Control (CTL):
Your mental control, the ability to remain calm in stressful situtations, etc.

Sense (SNS):
Eyesight, hearing, sense of smell, etc.

Merits/Flaws
Merits/Flaws are a way to add some spice to your character. They also effect your stats. Merits/Flaws are completely optional, but for every merit you take.. you must take a flaw. You can take up to a maximum of 3 merits. The bonus to taking merits/flaws are that only by receiving stat bonus's through merits/flaws can you get over the maximum number of 10. You do not have to use the merit/flaws system. If you do choose some merits/flaws then you may get rewarded for playing your character by them. (IE: If you choose the merit Calm Heart, and the flaw Hard of hearing.. having your character "yell" in situtations that need silence may get you rewarded).

Warning: The merits/flaws system is complex, so if you want to just jump right in you can skip it. You will be allowed to come back and choose some after you've created your character.


Merits:
Photographic Memory (+ 1 INT)
Code of Honor (+1 BRV)
Common Sense (+1 WIS)
Concentration (+1 CTL)
Calm Heart (+1 CTL)
Self-Confident (+1 CTL)
Ambidextrous (+1 AGI)
Daredevil (+1 BRV)
Perfect Balance (+1 AGI)
Jack-Of-All-Trades (+1 INT)
True Love (+1 BRV)
Danger Sense (+1 SNS)
True Faith (+1 CTL)
Huge Size (+1 END)
Driving Goal (+1 BRV)
Double-jointed (+1 AGI)


Flaws:
Compulsion (-1 CTL)
Nightmares (-1 BRV)
Overconfident (-1 CTL)
Phobia (-1 CTL)
Low-self Image (-1 CTL)
Deranged (-1 WIS)
Hatred (-1 CTL)
Amnesia (-1 WIS)
Confused (-1 INT)
Weak-Willed (-1 BRV)
Absent-Minded (-1 WIS)
Hard of Hearing (-1 SNS)
Bad Sight (-1 SNS)
Uneducated (-1 INT)
Insane Past Life (-1 CTL)
Twisted Upbringing (-1 CTL)
Mute (-1 SNS)
Short (-1 STR)
Self Centered (-1 WIS)
Gullible (-1 WIS)
Simpleton (-1 INT)
Short Fuse (-1 CTL)
Curiosity (-1 SNS)
Color Blindness (-1 SNS)
Inept (-1 INT)

-------

Your now done creating your character!

Obtaining Money and the RPG Economy:
You automatically start off with two virtue point, just by signing up inside of the registry. A "virtue point" is a tally that is awarded by RPG Game admins or DG Mods (for good behavior). Virtue points may also be removed as a form of punishment. One virtue point equals 20 gold per turn, so if you have 3 virtue points then you will be get 60 gold every week (the bank is updated weekly).

Gold can be used to buy items, property, etc.

while i like the idea it may show the lack of support for the organized rpg because nto many other posters have posted here.

while i like the idea it may show the lack of support for the organized rpg because nto many other posters have posted here.

I think most people just don't know what it is exactly ;).

I plan on writing a report for the main page after the elections, this will be a focal point.

Strider is correct, at least in my case. I've been looking over this thread but I'm waiting to find out more information before I decide whether I want to participate. Also, I just started Dragon Quest VIII, I'm already up to my eyeballs in stats :crazyeye:

If you start it, they will come......... or at least me, great work strider!

Okay, I'm going to run a Beta version of this ;).

Look here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=160974) for more information.

Okay, some quick questions.

Should we include a "travel" mode inside of this RPG. Basically, if you want to travel from one city to another (or from one poistion to another) you have to wait awhile.

What I'm thinking is that each person just picks a location for their house/business, and only people inside of that city can buy from the store (or visit the tavern, pub, whatever).

Civ 4 will not be like Civ 3, where we have dozens of cities. I doubt we will even manage to get over 20 cities this entire game. So it's possible now.

I definitely think we need to include a travel function because currently getting from one area to another is dangerous and difficult in game.

Travel should be a part of the game, but an acrive part. travel should be based on distance, and would offer a good oppurtinty for exploration without quests

Then maybe some people can simply be merchents who travel between cities selling and buying goods that are not offered in other cities. I like the idea of having travel time, especially if it gets reduced once we get certain techs.

I hope to have the full RPG up and running by the end of this week (so next Friday at the latest).

I changed the starting number of attribute points from 2 to 4, based on the RPG test trial.

I changed the starting number of attribute points from 2 to 4, based on the RPG test trial.In the new RPG thread it still says you start with 2 in each category.

In the new RPG thread it still says you start with 2 in each category.

Yeah, it'll help if I actually changed it. :)

I've got the RPG Player Registry and the RPG Ruleset up, the bank and the first store will soon follow (hopefully tommorow). So sign up now!

I rather like the idea of travel time Strider. I imagine we'd have lots of traveling merchants, but maybe the best items can only be had in certain cities. It could also incorporate trade routes from the Civ game too. Items can be 'shipped' from one city to another, if they're in the trade route. :-)

I rather like the idea of travel time Strider. I imagine we'd have lots of traveling merchants, but maybe the best items can only be had in certain cities. It could also incorporate trade routes from the Civ game too. Items can be 'shipped' from one city to another, if they're in the trade route. :-)

Whoa... misread it at first as "time travel" instead of travel time. :lol:

Anyway, it will be added in later. Right now I'm just concerned with getting the basics up and running.

The bank is up and running, and the first "update" will be tommorow (monday). So join now to start getting some gold ;). Of course, you can't use it yet, but give me some time.

However, tommorow (hopefully).. I'm going to draft the laws for stores. So sometime tommorow, you will be allowed to open up your place of business. Land management will soon follow.

@Sigma: The "Frailty (-1 END)" flaw has been added to the ruleset.

I've added in the business section of the rules, so you may now create and operate your own place of business!

I am also looking for someone to help me out with operating the RPG. If you want to try your hand at it, just reply to this thread... or send me a PM.

Land Management/Ownership part of the ruleset has been added!

I don't think anyone (at this moment) can afford to buy land, but it's in place regardless.

Question: If i build a temple on a tile, is that a non-profit, or is it just a building?

Question: If i build a temple on a tile, is that a non-profit, or is it just a building?

You would have to pay for the materials to build the temple. The idea is for someone to start up a business that builds houses/castles/keeps/temples/whatever for you. Each building will be approved by a manager (that'll be either GeorgeOP or myself at the moment) to add a particular benefit (sometimes extra gold production... when the conflict system is running castles and keeps will add defense bonus's).

who is the land manager, becuase i'm in the mood to spend some of my cash on a tile

who is the land manager, becuase i'm in the mood to spend some of my cash on a tile

GeorgeOP is the land manager. I'll send him a PM to let him know that he can start doing his job :).

Edit: Also, just to remind you guys. You can start up your first business free, you just have to send me a PM with your product list and I'll tell you how much is gold each item should cost.

Just as a note also, it's up to you to keep track of what you own.

Schweet. We should really have an RPG Help Page, mostly for me:goodjob:

Okay, it's time to propose the "skills" section of the RPG. In the past, the skills have had a number, much like the stats. However, I just want to expand upon the number of skills available and just leave the number portion off.

Anyway, here is a list proposed skills:

Cooking
Hunting
Tracking
Swordplay
Horse Riding
Archery
Stealth
Carpentry
Smithing
Tanning
Healing
Communication

-----------

I'm sure you guys could think of ALOT more to add onto this list, but it's a start. Basically, each skill will either add a benefit, or allow you to do something else.

If someone wanted to open a business selling armor and swords, they will HAVE to have the skill Smithing. Other skills, like swordplay, add benefits to your fighting abilities. Give each player 2 skills to start off with, and allow them to learn additional skills as they progress.

BTW, I will be forced to take carpentry as a skill.

How about Healing as well, thats an important one
and then you should have a Skill-Misc. where they can specify a non-listed skill

Communication Skills- would need to be involved in my pub, i dont think we really need the tanning skill or the tracking skill as the hunting skill can encorporate that one, we dont want too many skills as it would complicate the rpg too much.

revised ruleset for land management

Tile Costs
base tile costs 50 gold
commerce icon adds 50
Hammer or Food Icon adds 25
and if it is being 'worked' that adds an extra 50 gold

Tile Benefeits
10 gpt for each commerce icon
5gpt for hammer or Food

Additional Rules
A person can only own a maximum of 25% of the total land of the empire.
Major buildings cannot be built on a hill, for instance anything larger than a house.

Foreign Control:
Any tile that falls under foreign control will automatically revert back to no ownership. If the tile is re-gained, then it is placed on sale again. Tiles that no longer lay in our borders, but do not fall under foreign control will no longer produce the virtue point benefits. However, the owner will keep possession of the tile.

Tile Purchasing:
New tiles will become available at the land managers discretion, who will post a thread with a list of the tiles available for purchase. Each person lists five tiles they want in order of preference. Players who do not currently own any land get priority over those who do. A player must have enough gold on hand to buy the tile and no player can own more than 5 tiles.

i just feel this way would work better than the existing way.

Strider I would be willing to help out run the bank. I would be able to set up other things like offical accounts ect. Any ingame sillyness would be left aside of course. All transactions from myself i would post like any other citizen. Also it would help stop confusion as your the king (:P kinda) and banker.

Strider I would be willing to help out run the bank. I would be able to set up other things like offical accounts ect. Any ingame sillyness would be left aside of course. All transactions from myself i would post like any other citizen. Also it would help stop confusion as your the king (:P kinda) and banker.

You can always open your own bank when we get the required technology.

I updated the RPG, you may now spend Virtue points to up your stats and the skills system is in place (so you can choose your skills).

I'm also thinking about actually giving a gpt benefit to managers, as they're seems to be alot of interest in becoming one, and you should get something for helping out.

Three things.

In the ruleset you might want to update the Land Purchasing rules.

When you do change the ruleset, could you post here or in that thread what changes you make. I'm lazy and don't want to re-read all of the rules to find the changes you make. Or you could just tell me "too bad".

So we each get to choose three skills. Do we have to choose now, or can we save one or multiple ones for later? For example, can I only choose two now, and when Giant Death Robot skill becomes available I can get it for free since I have one unused skill slot? Or are these three free skills available only now for a limited time?

Three things.

In the ruleset you might want to update the Land Purchasing rules.

When you do change the ruleset, could you post here or in that thread what changes you make. I'm lazy and don't want to re-read all of the rules to find the changes you make. Or you could just tell me "too bad".

So we each get to choose three skills. Do we have to choose now, or can we save one or multiple ones for later? For example, can I only choose two now, and when Giant Death Robot skill becomes available I can get it for free since I have one unused skill slot? Or are these three free skills available only now for a limited time?

I'll try to do that.

Also, you can pick your skills any time you want.

Also, dont know if you have but before just changing the ruleset run it by everyone else first.

fishing as a skill ???

herbing as a skill, atleast on WoW it is.

Yer but this isnt WoW, so maybe isnt such a large need for it.

Also maybe we should start discussing what we will do with the 'pot' just how it should be awarded etc

i think that should award the post as so
with 3 prizes
contribution to the rpg
and the prize should be split equally and given out every week.

thats just my opinion though so depends what everyone else thinks.

Also maybe we should start discussing what we will do with the 'pot' just how it should be awarded etc

i think that should award the post as so
with 3 prizes
contribution to the rpg
and the prize should be split equally and given out every week.

thats just my opinion though so depends what everyone else thinks.

The money that is in "the pool" in the bank will be used every sunday to distribute income. This is to help keep the economy stable and inflation low.

In other news, if I win the Presidential election (which seems likely) I will hand control of the RPG bank & business's to Nobody and name him "Financial Manager." This will remove myself from any/all management duties. I will however, keep creative control over the game, and will use the next term to revamp the ruleset, clean up some confusion, and start on a "Help Guide" of sorts.

I have re-written the lawset to make it mroe understanding and its also shorter. corrected spelling and other things, basically i just got rid of the virtue points as they were too hard to understand and could possibly added at a later date.

I also cut the rules down by about 3 pages, should be easier for newer members

You also instead of virtue points you just recieve 50gold per turn chat which should equal about 100 gold per week, depending on turn chat. gives people more money to have fun with.
Creating a Character

To create a character you need
Name (we much prefer if you give your character a name similar (or exactly the same) to your forum name)
Age
Gender
*Biography/Physical Appearance

*Optional

Stats

To enhance your character you can give it various stats, the stats all initially have 4 points in, you have 10 additional points you can spend on each one, and you can only gain additional points through bonuses.

Strength (STR)
Your overall physical prowess

Agility (AGI):
Your speed, dexterity, and reflexes.

Intelligence (INT):
Basically your mental processing power. How fast you think.

Wisdom (WIS):
The amount of information you know.

Endurance (END):
Ability to withstand pain and hardship.

Bravery (BRV):
The ability to reactive under fear or nervousness.

Control (CTL):
Your mental control, the ability to remain calm in stressful situations, etc.

Sense (SNS):
Eyesight, hearing, sense of smell, etc.

Merit/Flaws

The Merit/Flaw system is entirely optional, you do NOT have to use it and is just a way to further enhance your character. You can completely ignore this section.


The Merit/Flaw system works thus: for every merit you assign yourself you gain one flaw, each merit/flaw adds and detracts a point from your stats. The management will award extra bonuses for people who chose a merit/flaw and maintain these within a story.

Merits:
Photographic Memory (+ 1 INT)
Code of Honour (+1 BRV)
Common Sense (+1 WIS)
Concentration (+1 CTL)
Calm Heart (+1 CTL)
Self-Confident (+1 CTL)
Ambidextrous (+1 AGI)
Daredevil (+1 BRV)
Perfect Balance (+1 AGI)
Jack-Of-All-Trades (+1 INT)
True Love (+1 BRV)
Danger Sense (+1 SNS)
True Faith (+1 CTL)
Huge Size (+1 END)
Driving Goal (+1 BRV)
Double-jointed (+1 AGI)


Flaws:
Compulsion (-1 CTL)
Nightmares (-1 BRV)
Overconfident (-1 CTL)
Phobia (-1 CTL)
Low-self Image (-1 CTL)
Deranged (-1 WIS)
Hatred (-1 CTL)
Amnesia (-1 WIS)
Confused (-1 INT)
Weak-Willed (-1 BRV)
Absent-Minded (-1 WIS)
Hard of Hearing (-1 SNS)
Bad Sight (-1 SNS)
Uneducated (-1 INT)
Insane Past Life (-1 CTL)
Twisted Upbringing (-1 CTL)
Mute (-1 SNS)
Short (-1 STR)
Self Cantered (-1 WIS)
Gullible (-1 WIS)
Simpleton (-1 INT)
Short Fuse (-1 CTL)
Curiosity (-1 SNS)
Colour Blindness (-1 SNS)
Inept (-1 INT)
Frailty (-1 END)





Skills

Optional as well

Skills are another section to enhance the believability of your character, your character receives 2, and once again the management will award bonuses for people that maintain their skills in a role-playing situation.


Cooking
Hunting
Tracking
Swordplay
Horse Riding
Archery
Stealth
Carpentry
Smithing
Healing
Communication.


END OF FIRST POST! This is only the essential required to create a character so is the only stuff needed to be included in one post.

New post!

RPG Economy

Upon joining the RPG each person receives 100 gold, thereon each player receives 50 gold per turn chat, in theory about 100 gold per week extra, extra revenue can be gained by businesses, revenue from land etc.

BANKING
All accounts are kept at the Bank. Salaries are added to all accounts after each turn chat. All transactions must be posted at the bank with a link to the transaction post or a copy of the PM/email where the transaction occurred. Only one party of the transaction should make the transaction post, to avoid confusion. If the transaction is made at a business, the business owner will post the transaction. All amounts are rounded to the nearest whole number. Private transactions should be posted immediately. Businesses may hold their transactions until the day of the next turn chat and post them all at once.

Loans
Simple loans are available from the bank at 5% or 10% interest, after the researching of Banking inside of the game. 5% loans are for the purchase of assets (items, stores, etc.). 10% loans are signature loans and can be taken for any reason. Loans are repaid over a maximum of 3 terms. Maximum loan amount is 1/2 of your expected income over the loan period. All calculations will be based on an expected 8 turn chats per term. Loan payments are deducted automatically from salaries. A citizen may have only 1 outstanding loan at a time. Loans may be paid off early but no refund of interest is given. Contract salaries are figured assuming 10 turns per chat.

Stores/Shops:
OFFICIAL BUSINESSES
these are business threads run by a Manager (or an Assistant) that sell goods at the official market price (as set or authorized by a Manager). They record all transactions to the bank at each turn chat. They do not record profits.

PRIVATE BUSINESSES
The first private business that a player creates is free, following that every business thereafter costs differing amount of money to set up as shown below.

Place of Business start-up expenses
2000g: Large goods (houses etc)
1000g: Small Goods (food, clothes)
500g: Services (no goods exchanged)
0g: Non-profit organizations (no goods or services exchanged)

If a player wants to create a second business, that business start up costs must then be multiplied by the number of business you have previously.

Size factor:
Personal business: x1
Private company: x2
Public company: x3
Corporation: x4

Supply
It is assumed that each business has enough material to supply their customers.

Technology Restrictions
The technology of items sold can be no more advanced than one tech above our current knowledge in the actual Civ4 game.
Example: If we have Bronze Working then Iron Working is one advance away. Items dependent on Iron Working (sword, metal armour, etc) could be legally sold.

Taxation
Large goods businesses are taxed 20% of total income
Small goods businesses are taxed 10% of total income
Service businesses are taxed 5% of total income
Non-profit organisations are not taxed

Selling the shop
Businesses can be sold or liquidated. When liquidated, 50% of the Place of Business costs are returned to the seller. If sold to another private owner the price is negotiated. The buyer will then need to pay normal legal start-up fees but will not have any Place of Business expenses.


NEW POST!

Land Management
Tile Costs
Base tiles cost 50 gold
Commerce icon adds 50 gold per icon
Hammer and Food icon adds 30 gold per icon
If the tile is currently being "worked", and extra 100 gold is added

Tile Benefits
5 gpt per plot plus...
5 gpt per Commerce icon and
3 gpt per Hammer and/or Food icon

Additional Rules
A person can only own a maximum of 20% of the total land of the empire.
Buildings cost x2 for building on a hill or mountain due to the difficulties of heights.
Private property can be sold to any other citizens for any amount both citizens agree to. Both parties must PM the Land Manager by Friday for the transfer to become finalized, otherwise it might not be recognized until the following week.

Foreign Control
Any tile that falls under foreign control will automatically revert back to no ownership. All buildings on the tile will be considered destroyed. If the tile is re-gained, then it is placed on sale again. Tiles that no longer lie in our borders, but do not fall under foreign control will no longer produce the virtue point benefits. However, the owner will keep possession of the tile. Buildings will remain on the tile but may require a refurbishing cost depending upon type of building and length of the loss.

Tile Purchasing
New tiles will become available at the land managers discretion, who will post a thread with a list of the tiles available for purchase. Each person lists five tiles they want in order of preference. Players who do not currently own any land get priority over those who do. A player must have enough gold on hand to buy the tile. If more than one citizen wants the same piece of land, a random drawing will decide who gets it.

Absence
If any citizen has not posted at CFC for over four weeks and has not posted in any absence thread, the Land Manager may buy back any land at current purchase price. This land may be re-sold to other citizens

Ruleset has been updated. I am also "appointing" Nobody as the Economic manager and he will then take over control of the Bank and Store/Business section of the RPG.

A new bank thread is therefore needed so he can update the first post, folowing the new rule set should we reset the bank totals or just continue as is happening?

A new bank thread is therefore needed so he can update the first post, folowing the new rule set should we reset the bank totals or just continue as is happening?

The game has already started, so we keep the current amount.

Yes, well i was checking everyone elses opinions on the matter, not just your own.

I think they should stay. but if they do change i want to keep Chipville. You will hvae to pry it from my dead revolutionary hands:goodjob:

Oh yer the buissnesses would of course stay, was just wonderin if with a widely changed ruleset we maybe should start the bank and land threads again.

I didnt start playing when you guys did because the previous ruleset was a mess. So as a result I start a bit behind in both bank and land buying.

However..if I am the only one that it effect then its no big deal. What ever you guys decide.

I think an easy solution is to just calculate how much a new player (like robboo) would have had in the bank if he had an account since the first week. Then just start him out with that much money. He would still be a little behind since land gives you gpt, but it wouldn't be the huge amount it is now.

Also remember that I give land priority to those with the fewest lands, so those new people will get first dibs on the good land that becomes available.

There is exactly 2050 gold in the Demogame Economy. When Roboo joins that will bring the total to 2150 gold in the economy. It should never exceed the amount of 2150 with the current number of players in the game.

The purpose of this is for newer players start off on basically an equal footing as everyone else. Roboo will start off as the 5th richest person out of a group of 9. For just recently joining, that is pretty good.

There is exactly 2050 gold in the Demogame Economy. When Roboo joins that will bring the total to 2150 gold in the economy. It should never exceed the amount of 2150 with the current number of players in the game.

The purpose of this is for newer players start off on basically an equal footing as everyone else. Roboo will start off as the 5th richest person out of a group of 9. For just recently joining, that is pretty good.

No because that gives no-one anything to aspire too, with each player recieving 100 gold per week then that number shall and will grow, its the battle of realism vs fun and i think we should have fun with this game and not be constrained, as its 100 plus money from revenue from buisnesses and land thats not going to grow to be too huge and why shouldnt people that have been here longer have a larger bonus? it doesnt put newer people off but keeps people that have been here longer still here.

Also Strider why have you changed a ruleset everyone has been happy with not only without telling anyone but also making large changes to the economy, yes while you did start up the rpg again it doesnt give you exclusive rights to it, every member is a participant of it so you shouldnt just add things whenever you feel like and take it away. the rules which people agreed on stated that virtue points were not included people recieve 50 gold per turn chat, which equals 100 gold per week. virtue points should not be included as it can turn into a popularity contest.

No because that gives no-one anything to aspire too, with each player recieving 100 gold per week then that number shall and will grow, its the battle of realism vs fun and i think we should have fun with this game and not be constrained, as its 100 plus money from revenue from buisnesses and land thats not going to grow to be too huge and why shouldnt people that have been here longer have a larger bonus? it doesnt put newer people off but keeps people that have been here longer still here.

You don't understand the people who's been here longer will get a bonus. Yes robboo will be the 5th richest person in the game when he joins, but he has yet to spend any money. Those other 4 below him has spent money on land and other items.

The purpose of this is to get people to be active and spend their gold, not just have a dozen people with massive amounts of gold in their accounts.

That method also makes it impossible to operate business's due to a massive amount of ever increasing inflation. That was the main reason why business's never took off during the DG2 RPG.

You don't understand the people who's been here longer will get a bonus. Yes robboo will be the 5th richest person in the game when he joins, but he has yet to spend any money. Those other 4 below him has spent money on land and other items.

The purpose of this is to get people to be active and spend their gold, not just have a dozen people with massive amounts of gold in their accounts.

That method also makes it impossible to operate business's due to a massive amount of ever increasing inflation. That was the main reason why business's never took off during the DG2 RPG.

Yes and while i can see that point of view, having nothing to spend at 40 gold or whatever your intending a week means people have to save up for 2 weeks just to buy a house! never mind the land to live it on, this leads to lots of waiting around and dis interest in the game.

look at it like this..to buy a desert tile you spend all of your weekely income. To buy a tile that is being worked you spend 2 weeks salary just to pay the "being worked fee". A new player would have to sit and wait for gold to accumulate in order to buy land that will yield a return.

Meanwhile no one wants to spend money on anything because a 5 gold beer is a a tenth of their weekly salary before land income. I drink at minimum 6 or 7 beers a week...guess I better cut back. ;)

I trust you Strider understand this better than me but I dont see businesses taking off either if no one can afford the services.

Yes and while i can see that point of view, having nothing to spend at 40 gold or whatever your intending a week means people have to save up for 2 weeks just to buy a house! never mind the land to live it on, this leads to lots of waiting around and dis interest in the game.

That has to be the most ironic statement I have ever heard. Weapons will cost near to nothing prepared to a house (1 or 2 gold apiece), and other items will cost a hell of alot less.

look at it like this..to buy a desert tile you spend all of your weekely income. To buy a tile that is being worked you spend 2 weeks salary just to pay the "being worked fee". A new player would have to sit and wait for gold to accumulate in order to buy land that will yield a return.

Meanwhile no one wants to spend money on anything because a 5 gold beer is a a tenth of their weekly salary before land income. I drink at minimum 6 or 7 beers a week...guess I better cut back.

I trust you Strider understand this better than me but I dont see businesses taking off either if no one can afford the services.

Let me put it this way, if a house costs 40g and you get 100 gold a week.. that's 2 houses a week. What the **** is the fun in that? People should not receive enough gold to buy anything they want, because if they do then there is no point in playing to begin with.

What is the fun in getting everything you want so easily? Not only that, but the constant price adjustments and ruleset adjustments that would have to be done just to keep loans and business's actually useable would be impossible to manage.

It is as simple as this, no it is not going to happen. End of discussion.

It is as simple as this, no it is not going to happen. End of discussion.


This isnt going to help get more people involved.

It simple..raise income, raise house prices. If houses cost 40 gold and beer cost 5....see the problem.

I hate to complicate things but what about adding in a lower currency...say 10 xxx make 1 gold.

Do you see what I am getting at, with the current system no one can make any profit unless they are selling big ticket items like houses. Maybe someone needs to start a business and under sell you....hey thats like real life.

This isnt going to help get more people involved.

It simple..raise income, raise house prices. If houses cost 40 gold and beer cost 5....see the problem.

I hate to complicate things but what about adding in a lower currency...say 10 xxx make 1 gold.

Do you see what I am getting at, with the current system no one can make any profit unless they are selling big ticket items like houses.

Which would the be reason why houses cost more and would be alot harder to buy, for people don't have the money to be buying them.

Funny how you edit your post( S&E construction) on April 1st at 10:40pm central to increased prices..after I said this. This is the third or fourth time you have done something like this in the demo game when someone calls you on something. ( second time to me)

Back to this..How many houses can go on a plot of land? Only one? unlimited?

Funny how you edit your post( S&E construction) on April 1st at 10:40pm central to increased prices..after I said this. This is the third or fourth time you have done something like this in the demo game when someone calls you on something. ( second time to me)

Your post reminded me that I haven't jacked up prices, like I should've done weeks ago. It's based on a 10% of total gold in the game. When the thread was posted, there was alittle less than 1000 gold that was in the RPG. Then I gave everyone (excluding myself) a 100 gold bonus for they can buy land, and that jumpshot it up to almost 1700.

Back to this..How many houses can go on a plot of land? Only one? unlimited?

Not limit has been set yet.

ok here is the issue..why I asked about houses. right now most land runs from about 50 for a desert to 300+. In most housing situations, the house is roughly more than 3 to 5 times the value of the land..so if only one house per plot..land is too high, houses too cheap.

The whole economy of the game needs to be based on something. some bench mark needs to be established. To me if houses cost 12 beers and land cost 60 beers and I make 10 beers a week...beer is too expensive and the other things arent expensive enough. To solve this you can either raise your prices or create some currency below gold so that a business selling smaller items ( beer, fish, weapons) can still attract clients. Do you understand what I am getting at?

You could also give everyone that starts the game a land allowance. XXX gold to buy a plot of land, they can spend it plus their salary gold to get a prime location or just get an OK location.You then can jack up land prices 5x and now you dont have to have the rule about 5% ownership and more prime land is available.The land allowance lasts one week and cannot be spent on other things.

ok here is the issue..why I asked about houses. right now most land runs from about 50 for a desert to 300+. In most housing situations, the house is roughly more than 3 to 5 times the value of the land..so if only one house per plot..land is too high, houses too cheap.

The whole economy of the game needs to be based on something. some bench mark needs to be established. To me if houses cost 12 beers and land cost 60 beers and I make 10 beers a week...beer is too expensive and the other things arent expensive enough. To solve this you can either raise your prices or create some currency below gold so that a business selling smaller items ( beer, fish, weapons) can still attract clients. Do you understand what I am getting at?

You could also give everyone that starts the game a land allowance. XXX gold to buy a plot of land, they can spend it plus their salary gold to get a prime location or just get an OK location.You then can jack up land prices 5x and now you dont have to have the rule about 5% ownership and more prime land is available.The land allowance lasts one week and cannot be spent on other things.

It is based on the total amount of gold in the game. More gold will also be added when I implement the storytellers portion of the ruleset, and allow people to actually go "treasure hunting." As I said earlier, there is only 2050 gold.

Right now the economy is just getting started, so it hasn't even fallen into place yet.

I propose the following system of currency:

Gold Pieces: Equal 10 Silvers or 100 Chips: used for big items, land, and bulidings
Silvers: 10 equal 1 gold peice, or 10 chips equal it: Samller items, weapons
Chips: 100 equal a gold peice, or 10 equal a silver: Sutinence, beers, tips

I propose the following system of currency:

Gold Pieces: Equal 10 Silvers or 100 Chips: used for big items, land, and bulidings
Silvers: 10 equal 1 gold peice, or 10 chips equal it: Samller items, weapons
Chips: 100 equal a gold peice, or 10 equal a silver: Sutinence, beers, tips

yes and while that is a good idea in theory, its a complete arse to implement for the banker, so while i dont mind editing the prices of my beers, why dont we just raise the income and then strider your house prices can be raised, its still a fixed income so the economy isnt going to grow to extreme proportions, its not like the old RPG where you got money for everything, you get money for 3 things
100gpt from the state
income from tiles
and revenue from land.

i believe the land structure is completly fine so we dont need to be altering that. therefore, we ned to alter other parts of the ruleset and i believe this is it. the revenue is also set so will be a lot easier to the banker as its just adding one number to each person rather than if someone has an extra vrtue point.

Now the virute points themselves are good in theory but there being used in the wrong place, use them by the managers to give to people who have been good rpg'ers and let them add them to their stats or skills, a bit like the sims in that aspect and everyone knows how addictive that is (not that i like it).

Well as discussion has been running now for quite awhile i think we should poll it in a few hours so we can decide just how the economy will work.

Well as discussion has been running now for quite awhile i think we should poll it in a few hours so we can decide just how the economy will work.

Unluckly, it's not up for discussion. The suggestion was made with little to no knowaledge of economics and I'm not willing to make things more difficult to manage just for some weird fancy.

The method is set in stone.

Why is it nothing is open for discussion?

You have changed the rules and twidled with things after people join but you dont even have the respect for them to at least listen and discuss. Instead you tell them they dont understand and you know best. This wont grow the RPG if people see it run by a tyrant.

/you also might check with Bengence..he retired from the pitboss game citing not enough time. Same can be said in here since he hasnt posted in a while.

Why is it nothing is open for discussion?

You have changed the rules and twidled with things after people join but you dont even have the respect for them to at least listen and discuss. Instead you tell them they dont understand and you know best. This wont grow the RPG if people see it run by a tyrant.

/you also might check with Bengence..he retired from the pitboss game citing not enough time. Same can be said in here since he hasnt posted in a while.

Adding more gold will cause inflation, forcing us to constantly raise prices. When inflation gets to high later in the game, we will have to remove gold from the game. The only way to remove it from the game is to just take it from the players.

I've explained this once, and no one has offered a reasonable explanation other than it will be "more fun." It's not more fun if were forced to take gold from players accounts just to keep things under control.

NO you will not have inflation. IF the number of people increase then the average gold per person is about the same. If you insist on staying like this then you have to add in fractional gold( centigold, decigold) all you would have to do is add a decimal point and a name for it. Otherwise a meal at the tavern will have to cost as much as a tenth of your house. Heck even if he drops his prices to 1 gold... its still cost 1/60( 60 right?) of your house. Do you see a problem with that or not?

Also if services are affordable then the gold will get used up as taxes in the game and go off into the black hole. Otherwise as it is right now, no one will buy a house , no one will buy a drink or weapon.

So hows that for a reasonable explanation.

NO you will not have inflation. IF the number of people increase then the average gold per person is about the same. If you insist on staying like this then you have to add in fractional gold( centigold, decigold) all you would have to do is add a decimal point and a name for it. Otherwise a meal at the tavern will have to cost as much as a tenth of your house. Heck even if he drops his prices to 1 gold... its still cost 1/60( 60 right?) of your house. Do you see a problem with that or not?

Also if services are affordable then the gold will get used up as taxes in the game and go off into the black hole. Otherwise as it is right now, no one will buy a house , no one will buy a drink or weapon.

So hows that for a reasonable explanation.

Do you know anything about economics? Inflation will happen one way or the other, if were to have a balanced economy then it has to happen. The key to everything is keeping it at a fairly controlled rate, only adding gold to the game when someone new joins.

A beer would cost 1/140th of a house. Which is about right for the economy were building. As we get more gold in the game the cost will seperate out further, but there is no need to rush it at the moment.

There is no "black hole," as I've already explained.. a black hole would bring the economy completely out of control. There is only a certain amount of gold in the game at one time, taxes that are used are later given back to the players as their salary. It keeps it balanced.

Unluckly, it's not up for discussion. The suggestion was made with little to no knowaledge of economics and I'm not willing to make things more difficult to manage just for some weird fancy.

The method is set in stone.

luckly this isnt your forum. Everything therefore is always up for discussion all the time, weird fancy i think not. heres how things have worked out so far

your economy with little gold has so far equaled little participation, about 5 things not including land have been bought. so your way while being based more in reality hasnt really worked now has it?

My economy-gives people more money, yes a bit more unbelievable, however encourages greater participation, out of the 5 main posters so far in this forum at least 2 strongly want this new way of doing things, the other 2 seem fairly positive towards it, its only you thats against it. therefore it should be implemented. just because you didnt come up with this doesnt mean it wont work.

luckly this isnt your forum. Everything therefore is always up for discussion all the time, weird fancy i think not. heres how things have worked out so far

your economy with little gold has so far equaled little participation, about 5 things not including land have been bought. so your way while being based more in reality hasnt really worked now has it?

My economy-gives people more money, yes a bit more unbelievable, however encourages greater participation, out of the 5 main posters so far in this forum at least 2 strongly want this new way of doing things, the other 2 seem fairly positive towards it, its only you thats against it. therefore it should be implemented. just because you didnt come up with this doesnt mean it wont work.

You can yell and rant all you want, the edit, in the end is up to me. The lack of partcipation is due only to lack of attention, something that I've yet to remedy. Once I get the report written up and posted on the main page, were get alot more attention.

If we give people so much money that they can buy anything they want, their goal would just turn into trying to see who can get the most money. The goal is not for people to horde gold, but to get them to compete in who owns the most. Giving out so much gold that they can get anything they want with ease does nothing.

In the end any changes to the ruleset is left to me. This is not a democracy, I have maintained complete creative control over the RPG. I've done this for a reason, and that purpose has yet to be met. Untill then, any and all ruleset decisions is left ultimately to me.

This will be the first change I refuse to implement and hopefully the only one.

exactly why is it left up to you? you didnt campaign for the use of a new forum, it was already there, you did put the idea of the original rpg in everyones head ill give you that, you wrote the original ruleset which was incomplete and uncomprhensible for much of it. without the ruleset which i wrote id already written a third of it (the land part). so really in what way at all is this rpg yours???

if your quoting history go back and see me being in control of the rpg if you want i dont mind, i also believe the ruleset i was trying to implement was during a period where the rpg was at its height.

you do not need to write a report for the main page because if you look through the thread i_am_the_future has already voluteered to do that.

This is a democracy, this is part of the civ4 game of democracy system, if you want striders personal rpg forum, go create your own forum and you can do it their.

I would be curious as to what the mods would say to your comments..

Whats next you deciding who can play and what they can do in the RPG.

Strider..if you increase gold you increase prices..you are missing the point about how houses should cost thousands(or at least high hundreds) and food should cost single digits. You again could solve this by having a lower unit of money.

BTW..if this is your RPG...whats to stop Someone else from starting their own. You have to make it thw forums RPG not Striders pet project.

I would be curious as to what the mods would say to your comments..

The same thing as they would say to someone trying to tell a mod-maker what to do with their mod. Merits/Flaws, the basic price system, low-profit business's, the skills system, even the RPG idea to begin with are my creation. I accepted the new land system because GeorgeOP was the one who would be doing the work, and he was willing to do the extra work.

I however, am not willing to do the extra work. I am pressed for time as it is, and I don't pass my responsibilites off to others to easily. I don't have the time to chase off after your every whim, nor have you given me any reason to do so.

I promised myself that this would be my last month in the demogame and I plan to hold to that promise. I have much to do and very little time to do it in. Don't press my patience.

Whats next you deciding who can play and what they can do in the RPG.

By forum rules you can't exclude people from anything.

Strider..if you increase gold you increase prices..you are missing the point about how houses should cost thousands(or at least high hundreds) and food should cost single digits. You again could solve this by having a lower unit of money.

Why should they cost thousands? This is not the U.S. economy, it is a fantasy economy. This is not real life, and it is not meant to mirror so.

The same thing as they would say to someone trying to tell a mod-maker what to do with their mod. Merits/Flaws, the basic price system, low-profit business's, the skills system, even the RPG idea to begin with are my creation. I accepted the new land system because GeorgeOP was the one who would be doing the work, and he was willing to do the extra work.

I however, am not willing to do the extra work. I am pressed for time as it is, and I don't pass my responsibilites off to others to easily. I don't have the time to chase off after your every whim, nor have you given me any reason to do so.

I promised myself that this would be my last month in the demogame and I plan to hold to that promise. I have much to do and very little time to do it in. Don't press my patience.



By forum rules you can't exclude people from anything.



Why should they cost thousands? This is not the U.S. economy, it is a fantasy economy. This is not real life, and it is not meant to mirror so.


Hang on, Hang on. few points to comment on there,

there not all your ideas, they are based on ideas which were around from the original rpg, ideas which came from the collective community but predominantly me, you and shaitan. so while you proposed the idea originally it was incredibly different to what it actually turned out to be so dont go taking all the credit where it isnt entirely deserved.

Just what are you talking about, do you even know anymore? your stopping rules being passed which would make the rpg easier to manage and more enjoyable for everyone, just wtf is the point in virtue points in relation to cash? absolutly none.

So really why are you attempting to stop laws which would just be passed when you leave anyways?

treating this forum like your own personal rpg forum is a lot like doing that though isnt it...

the last statement you made actually made me laugh out loud, talking about a fantasy economy now after a few posts previously you were bangning on about inflation, which in my mind isnt really that fantasy now is it:lol: but way to go on contradicting yourself:goodjob:

IF its fantasy then BCLG is right..inflation doesnt matter.

Also since you are leaving after this month then why dont you let people..ie the majority have this as a poll. Also if you are leaving the demo game..what do you care happens??? If you are pressed for time then dont get so invloved..ie no one forced you as president. Dont yell at us because you dont have enough time to at least listen to us and we keep giving yo valid reasons..you just dont like them. Wouldnt it have been easier to let BCGL post a poll and be done with it.. Heck you can have the tie breaker if it comes out even. Both of you can present your sides with an example and lets see what the others think.

There not all your ideas, they are based on ideas which were around from the original rpg, ideas which came from the collective community but predominantly me, you and shaitan. so while you proposed the idea originally it was incredibly different to what it actually turned out to be so dont go taking all the credit where it isnt entirely deserved.

The only section of the ruleset that was based on anything from the original DG2 RPG ruleset was the business section. That has been heavily modified to begin with. The Character creation merits/stats/skills system is completely my own. The land portion is mostly Shaitans land rules from DG2 with modifications.

Just what are you talking about, do you even know anymore? your stopping rules being passed which would make the rpg easier to manage and more enjoyable for everyone, just wtf is the point in virtue points in relation to cash? absolutly none.

How would it make it easier? Influxing the demogame with more money will make accounts harder to manage, which really and truely isn't my problem, as I soon won't be handling the bank. What is my problem however is the constant price adjustments that will have to happen. With thousands upon thousands of hold in the game, we will have to be making constant pricing adjustments to every business in the game.

So really why are you attempting to stop laws which would just be passed when you leave anyways?

Because I highly doubt their going to be passed after I leave.

[QUOTE=BCLG100]the last statement you made actually made me laugh out loud, talking about a fantasy economy now after a few posts previously you were bangning on about inflation, which in my mind isnt really that fantasy now is it:lol: but way to go on contradicting yourself:goodjob:[/QUOTE

Inflation will effect a fake economy just as much as a real one. Ever play any MMORPG's? Those are fantasy economies, and gil sellers are a huge problem, causing massive inflation.

The only section of the ruleset that was based on anything from the original DG2 RPG ruleset was the business section. That has been heavily modified to begin with. The Character creation merits/stats/skills system is completely my own. The land portion is mostly Shaitans land rules from DG2 with modifications.






ok so lets just have a little look at the rules from the first rpg

Skills

DEFENSE
Armored
Shield
Unarmored

HORSEMANSHIP
Steeplechase
Precision
Speed

WEAPONRY
Melee
Ranged
Hurled

WARFARE
Engineering
Strategy
Tactics

HUNTING
Tracking
Snares
Stealth

HUSBANDRY
Avian
Canine
Equestrian
Exotic

POWDERS
Pistol
Rifle
Charges


Slightly different to your skills ill agree however the concept isnt.

Mechanics

Each player has 12 points to distribute among the main skills and 35 to distribute among all subskills. A maximum of 5 points may be applied to any single subskill and a maximum of 2 points may be applied to any main skill (characters created before this restriction are grandfathered and do not need to redistribute their points). Ability in a particular contest is determined by adding together the skills that apply. Main skills are added once, no matter how many applicable subskills are involved. Each subskill that applies is added. The ability sums are added to a die roll for each contestant and the total performance numbers are compared.

Inferior armor, weaponry or horse will reduce the points gained from the appropriate subskills by 50%. A player cannot enter a contest if he has a zero rating in any applicable skill or subskill.

Increasing skill levels

The learning rate from instruction is 0.05 * total skill difference. [(Instructor Subskill + Student Skill ) - (Student Subskill)] *0.05
The maximum learning rate is 1/tc.
Leftover amounts when gaining a level are not taken over to the next level.
A trainer may have as many students at one time as he has levels in the subskill he is teaching.
The teacher also gains .1 per chat in the main skill while actively teaching. Going over the basics and repetitive drilling give this benefit.
A character can be in a maximum of 8 classes as student or teacher at one time.
Events have to be sanctioned by the Noble Court to qualify for competition advancement points. Competition advancement earns .25 to each subskill used for all contestants. The competition victor receives one used subskill raised to the next full level.
The Crusade and other large scale events will also give points. This will be an amount between .25 and 1 in each subskill that is not currently zero.
Professional Horseracers receive .25 for HORSEMANSHIP:Speed to winner, .1 for HORSEMANSHIP:Speed to 2nd/3rd place. Maximum of 1 award per week per character.
Duelists receive .25 for 1 subskill to victor, .1 for 1 subskill to loser. Maximum of 1 award per week.
Each character may increase any 2 skills to the next full point level at the beginning of each term.


and oh look theres points to distribute amongst skills, well fancy that, not so original then really.

or even more so from the next rpg

Stats

You can give your character stats (from 0 - 20), which will determine how well he/she can perform their particular trait. You get 65 points to distribute to each character. 10 is average.

Agility - Determines the athleticness and quickness of the character.
Discipline - Determines how industrious they are at performing tasks, and how they can lead people and show patience.
Charisma - Determines how the person appears to other characters.
Constitution - Determines the physical strength and health of the character
Intelligence - Determines how the character is intellectually, and their ability to solve problems.

Traits

Any character can have up to 3 of these traits that can be passed on from generation to generation. These traits are generic abilities that the character is geared towards. A descendant of will get random traits from their parents.


Code:
Agricultural - The character is more geared towards a farming lifestyle.
Belligerent - The character is more geared towards a militant and aggressive personality. Can be rebellious and/or adventurous.
Engineering - The character is more geared towards construction, inventions and other craftwork such as metal working.
Humanitarianist - The character is more geared towards community invovlement (sewing, cooking, etc.)
Intellectual - The character is more geared towards theories, maths, logic, puzzles, strategies
Maritime - The character is more geared towards aquatic activities (fishing, sailing)
Merchantile - The character is more geared towards commerce and trade.
Naturalist - The character is more geared towards knowledge of nature, plants and animals, skyline, and surroundings
Logophilic - The character is more geared towards literature, poetry, the spoken word (speaking and manipulating the spoken language)
Cultural - The character is more geared towards music, artform, and is mathematically inclined.
Philosophical - The character is more geared towards logic, debates, and philosophy.
Pious - The character is more geared towards a passive, and humble personality.
Scholarly - The character is more geared towards scholastics (jack of all trades, master of one)
Mechanical - The character is more geared towards mechanics. Can be industrious and is mathematically inclined.
Theistic - The character is more geared towards religous themes.
Tracking - The character is more geared towards skills involving scouting, stealth and hunting
You can pick and mix traits. For example, you could have a character that's a natualist and specializes in tracking. Such a character might make for an excellent scout. Another could have an Intellectual, Maritime, and engineering trait, and be a general. Another could have an Agricultural and Intellectual trait.


oh my that looks slightly familiar:rolleyes:

And OMG did you just say that the current buissness section was heavily modified, before i re-wrote it, the buissness section was a carbon copy

BANKING
All accounts are kept at the Bank. Salaries are added to all accounts after each turn chat. All transactions must be posted at the bank with a link to the transaction post or a copy of the PM/email where the transaction occured. Only one party of the transaction should make the transaction post, to avoid confusion. If the transaction is made at a business, the business owner will post the transaction. All amounts are rounded to the nearest whole number. Private transactions should be posted immediately. Businesses may hold their transactions until the day of the next turn chat and post them all at once.

Loans
Simple loans are available from the bank at 5% or 10% interest. 5% loans are for the purchase of assets (items, stores, etc.). 10% loans are signature loans and can be taken for any reason. Loans are repaid over a maximum of 3 terms. Maximum loan amount is 1/2 of your expected income over the loan period. All calculations will be based on an expected 8 turn chats per term. Loan payments are deducted automatically from salaries. A citizen may have only 1 outstanding loan at a time. Loans may be paid off early but no refund of interest is given. Contract salaries are figured assuming 10 turns per chat.

Example 1: Psychlo the Unsure is a governor and an honored citizen. He has a salary of 160 per turn chat: 100 (base) plus 40 (governor) plus 20 (honored citizen). In one term he has an expected income of 1280. He can borrow 640g and pay it back in one term, 1280g and pay it back in 2 terms or 1920 and pay it back in 3 terms. He is starting a new business so needs as much as he can get. He borrows 1920 at 5% interest (the money is going towards assets). The total he must pay back is 2016g (1920g + 96g interest). His payments will be 84g per turn chat until the 2016g is paid back(this will take about 3 terms).

Example 2: Shagrath the Incipid is a party animal. He wants to throw a blowout to celebrate an important military victory. He has no job besides being a citizen and is paid as a contractor. His pay is rated at 100g per turn chat for loan purposes. His expected income is 800g per term. He can borrow 400g to pay back in 1 term, 800g to pay back in 2 terms or 1200g to pay back in 3 terms. He isn't drunk yet so restrains himself to a 1 term payback. He borrows 400g and will be paying back a total of 440g, that is 400g plus 40g interest. Shagrath is paying 10% interest as he's getting a signature loan. His payments are 60g per chat turn until the 440g is repaid (this will take about 1 term).

OFFICIAL BUSINESSES
These are business threads run by the Price Manager (or an Assistant) that sell goods at the official market price (as set or authorized by the Price Manager). They record all transactions to the bank at each turn chat. They do not record profits.

PRIVATE BUSINESSES
The first personal business that each citizen starts up during the game has no startup costs. Additional businesses may also be started but will cost money to get them up and running. Two payments are necessary; legal fees and place of business expenses. Legal fees are 1000g for all businesses. Place of Business expenses include factories, sweat shops, stores, offices, etc. plus all of the equipment needed to get the business running. Manufacturers cannot sell to the public, only through resellers. If a manufacturer wants to also be a sales center they need to pay the legal expenses to do so (but no additional material costs). Place of Business startup expenses vary by business type:

Place of Business startup expenses
2000g: Manufacturing (creating goods)
1000g: Resale (selling goods)
500g: Services (no goods exchanged)
0g: Non-profit organizations (no goods or services exchanged)

This startup cost is multiplied by Size and Expense factors. These factors are based on the original price list and represent the increased cost that a large organization will require to start up or that an expensive product line will cost. These factors increase the Place of Business startup expenses ONLY.

Size factor:
Personal business: x1
Private company: x2
Public company: x3
Corporation: x4


BANKING
All accounts are kept at the Bank, which keeps track of the gold and virtue points in a players possession. Salaries are added to all accounts each week. All transactions must be posted at the bank with a link to the transaction post or a copy of the PM/email where the transaction occurred. Only one party of the transaction should make the transaction post, to avoid confusion. If the transaction is made at a business, the business owner will post the transaction. All amounts are rounded to the nearest whole number. Private transactions should be posted immediately. Businesses may hold their transactions up to a week.

Loans
Simple loans are available from the bank at 5% or 10% interest, after the researching of Banking inside of the game. 5% loans are for the purchase of assets (items, stores, etc.). 10% loans are signature loans and can be taken for any reason. Loans are repaid over a maximum of 3 terms. Maximum loan amount is 1/2 of your expected income over the loan period. All calculations will be based on an expected 8 turn chats per term. Loan payments are deducted automatically from salaries. A citizen may have only 1 outstanding loan at a time. Loans may be paid off early but no refund of interest is given. Contract salaries are figured assuming 10 turns per chat.

Stores/Shops:
OFFICIAL BUSINESSES
These are business threads run by a Manager (or an Assistant) that sell goods at the official market price (as set or authorized by a Manager). They record all transactions to the bank at each turn chat. They do not record profits.

PRIVATE BUSINESSES
The first private business that a player creates is free, following that every business thereafter costs differing amount of money to set up as shown below.

Place of Business start-up expenses
2000g: Large goods (houses etc)
1000g: Small Goods (food, clothes)
500g: Services (no goods exchanged)
0g: Non-profit organizations (no goods or services exchanged)

Supply
It is assumed that each business has enough material to supply their customers.

Technology Restrictions
The technology of items sold can be no more advanced than one tech above our current knowledge in the actual Civ4 game.
Example: If we have Bronze Working then Iron Working is one advance away. Items dependent on Iron Working (sword, metal armour, etc) could be legally sold.

Prices and Price management
Luxery Items: 10%-15% of pool
Construction: 10%-20% of pool
Weapons/Armor: 2%-5% of pool
Objects: 1%- 10% of pool
Drinks/Food: 1% or less of pool


btw i have noticed the extra additions you made to the ruleset recently as well. dont do that. so really saying that all your ideas are original is just one gigantic lie but whatever thats cool i can go with you lieing if you want.

How would it make it easier? Influxing the demogame with more money will make accounts harder to manage, which really and truely isn't my problem, as I soon won't be handling the bank. What is my problem however is the constant price adjustments that will have to happen. With thousands upon thousands of hold in the game, we will have to be making constant pricing adjustments to every business in the game.


well because 200+100 is a lot easier just in general than 200+40, as each person gets 100 guaranteed it means the banker doesnt have to spend ages working out just how much each person is meant to recieve.

Because I highly doubt their going to be passed after I leave.



is that why you dont let us discuss your little additions now because you know they wouldnt be passed?

Because I highly doubt their going to be passed after I leave.

the last statement you made actually made me laugh out loud, talking about a fantasy economy now after a few posts previously you were bangning on about inflation, which in my mind isnt really that fantasy now is it:lol: but way to go on contradicting yourself:goodjob:

Inflation will effect a fake economy just as much as a real one. Ever play any MMORPG's? Those are fantasy economies, and gil sellers are a huge problem, causing massive inflation

see you can tell you play MMORPG's, you have just contradicted yourself again! saying you wanted a fantasy economy in one post and now you dont in another, make your mind up!:rolleyes:

All of this however doesnt detract from the point that there is more support for my revised ruleset than there is for your original one, if you dont like it thats your problem and shouldnt affect everyone elses enjoyment of the game.

Slightly different to your skills ill agree however the concept isnt.

The concept is what is differant, the system Shaitan built for the DG2 RPG was built 100% around player vs player combat. The only skill that is the same from that list is swordplay. There intent was completely differant and the contents are completely differant.

and oh look theres points to distribute amongst skills, well fancy that, not so original then really.

RPG's are defined by the "points" or "stats" that are used to play the game. They are naturally games of chance, EVERY SINGLE RPG in the world uses the same basic concept, because it's that concept that defines an RPG.

well because 200+100 is a lot easier just in general than 200+40, as each person gets 100 guaranteed it means the banker doesnt have to spend ages working out just how much each person is meant to recieve.

It's not the 200+40 that is the problem. I can do a calculation like that in my head. As I've stated already, prices are based on a percentage of the money currently in the game. More money in the game means that the prices will change often and have greater effects.

All of this however doesnt detract from the point that there is more support for my revised ruleset than there is for your original one, if you dont like it thats your problem and shouldnt affect everyone elses enjoyment of the game.

I see you and one other person. Sorry to break it to you, but that doesn't mean much.

-------------

As I've said already. It will be me doing the extra work. I have better things than to spend extra time on a complex fancy when it can be simple and short work. When someone else is in charge of the economy and business section, then you can see if their willing to do the extra work.

You know what? This isn't worth the wasted effort and strain. The RPG will just likely fall apart once I leave to begin with, so I'm not going to waste time with it. I'd much prefer to focus me efforts on the demogame itself.

I'm dropping all of my work on the RPG and will ask the mods to start shutting down the main threads.

why would it be you though???? so far you havnt exactly done tonnes and if thats taken its toll on you then you need to get some stamina.

I have re-written the entire ruleset to make it workable, you have given control first of all of land to george and the bank to nobody so exactly what are you doing???=nothing, id be quite happy to take over the economy to allow this system to work, its not exactly challenging. so whats your argument against now then?

no why would prices necesarily need to change, sure thered be inflation but as everyone would be spending money this wouldnt be greatly noticeable!

oh and by the way i see only you arguing for the old system so that means even less, sorry to break that to you.

You know what? This isn't worth the wasted effort and strain. The RPG will just likely fall apart once I leave to begin with, so I'm not going to waste time with it. I'd much prefer to focus me efforts on the demogame itself.

I'm dropping all of my work on the RPG and will ask the mods to start shutting down the main threads.

o really? thank christ for that.

o really? thank christ for that.

Warned. Trolling.