If we are going to spend the time and effort to create a new resource, lets have it fill a new purpose, not be the same as an existiung item with a new name and graphic.

+Ancient Temple
+Banana
+Clam
+Copper
+Corn
+Cow
+Crab
+Deer
+Dye
+Fish
+Fruit of Yggdrasil
+Fur
+Gems
+Gold
+Gunpowder
Hellstones- Only available in Hell
+Horses
+Incense
+Iron
+Ivory
+Marble
+Mithril
Nighmare- Horses only available in Hell
+Pearls- Only available to Seafaring civs (Chalid)
+Pig
+Reagents
+Rice
+Sentry Tower
+Sheep
+Silk
+Stone
+Sugar
+Whale
+Wheat
+Wine

Mana
[tab]Law mana
[tab]Spirit mana
[tab]Creation mana
[tab]Sun mana
[tab]Enchantment mana
[tab]Fire mana
[tab]Life mana
[tab]Force mana
[tab]Metamagic mana
[tab]Nature mana
[tab]Earth mana
[tab]Water mana
[tab]Death mana
[tab]Air mana
[tab]Body mana
[tab]Mind mana
[tab]Entropy mana
[tab]Chaos mana
[tab]Dimensional mana
[tab]Shadow mana

Resource villages? Provide access to monster units or other civ’s exclusive units. These villages may need to be harvested to produce resource-type emigrants that can be settled in a city that will be able to produce the special units.

Opposed mana blocks A block to keep players from being able to have access to both Law and Chaos mana at the same time.

As someone mentioned in the public thread a special resource that should spawn at seafaring civs lands... Why not add a water resource that is revealed by the seafaring tech?

As someone mentioned in the public thread a special resource that should spawn at seafaring civs lands... Why not add a water resource that is revealed by the seafaring tech?

Thats an interesting idea that I never considered. Only seafaring civs have pearls revealed to them?

Sounds good to me.

Resource villages? Provide access to monster units or other civ’s exclusive units. These villages may need to be harvested to produce resource-type emigrants that can be settled in a city that will be able to produce the special units.

Master of Myrror-ish and personally I love this method of getting unusual units. Hook up a road to some Trolls and voila --- instant badass army. Of course having evil resource villages in a Good alignment civ's borders would have to be bad news for them.

Of course having evil resource villages in a Good alignment civ's borders would have to be bad news for them.

Perhaps the creatures would join civs of the same alignment freely, but civs of a different aligment would have to subvert them, and keep a unit garrisoned at the creature village to ensure their continued loyalty. If the garrisoned unit was removed or killed, all of the creatures of that type would then get a substantial chance per turn of turning barbarian, until a combat unit was at the village once again.

Perhaps the creatures would join civs of the same alignment freely, but civs of a different aligment would have to subvert them, and keep a unit garrisoned at the creature village to ensure their continued loyalty. If the garrisoned unit was removed or killed, all of the creatures of that type would then get a substantial chance per turn of turning barbarian, until a combat unit was at the village once again.

I like that alot. It would be cool to take out the garrisoned unit if you were at war so some "allies" would be free to terrorize your enemy's lands.

I have an idea for a new resource, pottery. Found on deserts and plains, it gives +2 sheilds and +1 food with a workshop built on it. Markets give +1 trade route with pottery.

Change it to clay, and it makes sense. :) Pottery is only good for archaeologists.

But it would be good to have another desert available resource if we are going to have a desert based civ.

In reality, clay doesn't form in deserts, or even dry climates for that matter, as it is a water altered mineral, but we don't need to let anyone know that. ;)

Desert-based resource: Melange :D

The resource could be a desert dweller selling pottery. :) I almost said nomad, but how would you have a permanent road leading to him! :crazyeye:

Resource villages? Provide access to monster units or other civ’s exclusive units. These villages may need to be harvested to produce resource-type emigrants that can be settled in a city that will be able to produce the special units.

I don't quite see the point of this. IMO the system of having to go find and kill monsters to build them is more interesting.

Change it to clay, and it makes sense. :) Pottery is only good for archaeologists.

But it would be good to have another desert available resource if we are going to have a desert based civ.

In reality, clay doesn't form in deserts, or even dry climates for that matter, as it is a water altered mineral, but we don't need to let anyone know that. ;)

Okay then clay. Maybe it would be found extr on flood plains. ;)

I don't quite see the point of this. IMO the system of having to go find and kill monsters to build them is more interesting.

I see it as both. A monster resource would automatically have a rooted barbarian monster of that type on it that needs to be defeated. Occasionally the resource my spawn a non-rooted babrbarian monster of that type which would go out wandering.

So the node must be captured, but instead of just granting the node the node is destroyed when captured and the player is given 2-3 monster "emegrants" which can be used to produce buildings that enable the player to build those monsters in those cities.

The reason I want to use the monster emegrants is because I dont want the player to be able to build the monsters everywhere once he takes the node. I want the monsters to be rarer than that. so the player has to choose what cities he wants to be able to build his monster units.

I have an idea for a new resource, pottery. Found on deserts and plains, it gives +2 sheilds and +1 food with a workshop built on it. Markets give +1 trade route with pottery.

I need more function than this. Is there something else that clay could be used for?

Remember we are already introducing 24 new resources. So at this point a resource needs a really good reason to be in before it will be added.

I was thinking of pottery as a trade route bonus type resource. Maybe +25% yeild and +1 trade route? Also, it would be a desert resource which is nice for civs which start in deserts. Also, it needs a workshop on it which encourages civs to get the workshop tech.

Have we decided whether it is possible to control both a magic node for one sphere, and a magic node for it's opposite sphere?

Have we decided whether it is possible to control both a magic node for one sphere, and a magic node for it's opposite sphere?

Not really, I tend to prefer to leave it open. If a player wants to make his civ full of Life/Death or Entropy/Creation magic more power to him.

We may make a specific restriction based on this around Law/Chaos magic. Thats probably the one that makes the least sense to be together. But even that would probably require more work than its worth (putting checks in to block it during trades, buildings that produce either, etc). I'll add a request for a block on Law/Chaos to the considering list.

Is there any other combos you think should be blocked?

I think that they shouldn't be able to control the sphere of their enemies. (pre-assigned civ enemies i mena)

I think that they shouldn't be able to control the sphere of their enemies. (pre-assigned civ enemies i mena)

Oh I see, so the Lanun wouldn't be able to harvest Fire mana, the Bannor wouldn't be able to do Chaos, the Calabim wouldn't be able to do Spirit?

That could be interesting. Would they be able to get the mana through trades?

Oh I see, so the Lanun wouldn't be able to harvest Fire mana, the Bannor wouldn't be able to do Chaos, the Calabim wouldn't be able to do Spirit?

That could be interesting. Would they be able to get the mana through trades?

yeah, but they couldn't get it in trade with their worst enemies.

yeah, but they couldn't get it in trade with their worst enemies.

True true, the negative modifier should make that very unlikely.

True true, the negative modifier should make that very unlikely.

I know, but just being certain. Also, for diplomacy i think that under no circumstanses should ai civs trade a magic node if it is their only one of that type.

I know, but just being certain. Also, for diplomacy i think that under no circumstanses should ai civs trade a magic node if it is their only one of that type.

We will turn up the ai weights on mana, the computer will be very hesitant to trade it at all. We talk a lot about trading mana but realistically if you want more mana resources, your probably gonna have to take them.

We will turn up the ai weights on mana, the computer will be very hesitant to trade it at all. We talk a lot about trading mana but realistically if you want more mana resources, your probably gonna have to take them.

Okay. I also think that if you are very good friends with an ai you should be able to switch used mana nodes.

How about hiding some more of the Ressources at the games beginning. For example there is no use of Dyes and Reagents for the stoneagelike Civilizations, so why not hide them until suitable technologies are developed.

Same for whales, they should become visible with the same tech that allows caravels.


About trading mana nodes... might be a good idea to trade them if you are more in for melee or other classical units and have no mithril or iron...

How about hiding some more of the Ressources at the games beginning. For example there is no use of Dyes and Reagents for the stoneagelike Civilizations, so why not hide them until suitable technologies are developed.

Same for whales, they should become visible with the same tech that allows caravels.


About trading mana nodes... might be a good idea to trade them if you are more in for melee or other classical units and have no mithril or iron...

We will definitly allow trading of mana. I agree that some of the resources need to be hidden alittle longer.

I have an idea for a new resource, pottery. Found on deserts and plains, it gives +2 sheilds and +1 food with a workshop built on it. Markets give +1 trade route with pottery.

I'd just like to repost this in case you missed it because i think that something of this sort would be nice.

Now that we have mana nodes im thinking about removing reagents (at least as a requirement for spellcasters). What do you guys think?

I'm all for removing reagents as a crucial element of any spellcasting civilization. But I still think it should give some arcane benefits to having reagents, perhaps a slightly greater chance for casters to gain xp?

You might want to remove the Reagents from mages but probably leave them on archmages? Those are some of the most powerfull units in the game so i would prefer if there was some resource requirement on them. Maybe even add a requirement to summoners, too.

Reagents migth be good for Summoners, for Archmages im not sure, probably something mundane as crystals (to focus their spells ore something like that).

You might want to remove the Reagents from mages but probably leave them on archmages? Those are some of the most powerfull units in the game so i would prefer if there was some resource requirement on them. Maybe even add a requirement to summoners, too.

Reagents migth be good for Summoners, for Archmages im not sure, probably something mundane as crystals (to focus their spells ore something like that).

I made this change in 110d, so you should be able to play with it in the version you have.

Hmm right now bot Tier 4 Casters have Reagents. Can we diversify so that one needs Reagents and the other something else?

I have again a Map without Reagents...

Perhaps Incense would be good for divine casters? Seems to fit well enough.

Hmm at the moment Mana becomes available with "Never". Thats quite unluck as i built my second city on a mana resource (without knowing) and can not use it now.
I feel having access to raw mana (the only way is by a city) should give +2 XP for magicusers, and it should become available with the other Mana resources. So that the unlucky get at least something out of it.

Hmm at the moment Mana becomes available with "Never". Thats quite unluck as i built my second city on a mana resource (without knowing) and can not use it now.
I feel having access to raw mana (the only way is by a city) should give +2 XP for magicusers, and it should become available with the other Mana resources. So that the unlucky get at least something out of it.

Yeah that is unlucky. I think that the AI might misue it though.

It cannot misuse it as it cannot build improvements that use it as Mana ;) You would only get acess if you build a city on top of a mana resource. The code prohibits anything else :) So no danger there..

Just wanted to point once more at the mana under a city, but have a second point to make, too.

With a lots of manas our city screens get quite unnice. You have to scroll, but cannot as other resource icons are overlayed and so. We should create some sort of resource stacker for manas that makes either two or three colums for mana. or places them somewhere else. Any ideas where to place them best?

Hmm right now bot Tier 4 Casters have Reagents. Can we diversify so that one needs Reagents and the other something else?

I have again a Map without Reagents...

We really need to find a way to force a minimum quantity of a resource onto a map. I dont like the current system. We need at least 3 reagents, incense and mithril on every map. Or else a wonder that produces them.

Just wanted to point once more at the mana under a city, but have a second point to make, too.

With a lots of manas our city screens get quite unnice. You have to scroll, but cannot as other resource icons are overlayed and so. We should create some sort of resource stacker for manas that makes either two or three colums for mana. or places them somewhere else. Any ideas where to place them best?

My inclination is to wipe the mana if a city is built on it.

I don't know about the city screen, Ill check it out. I was looking at the exotic foreign advisor and special domestic advisor modpacks and they have very nice screens for resources and such. But those are overall screens, not city screens.

My inclination is to wipe the mana if a city is built on it.

Any chance of scripting it so that after Knowledge of the Ether is researched the game checks to see if cities are built on mana nodes and then moves them 1 tile away? Might not be likely since everyone researches at different times though.

Any chance of scripting it so that after Knowledge of the Ether is researched the game checks to see if cities are built on mana nodes and then moves them 1 tile away? Might not be likely since everyone researches at different times though.

What if they built on the node after knowledge of the ether was researched?

How about doing the same check you do for ancient forests but only in the first round of the game. loop over all land plot, count mithil, reagents, incence, dschungle features, deserts, tundra. then calculate the number of additional resurces that need to be placed (maybe dependend on total plots and number of players) and calculate a chance per dschungle to pop a reagent, per desert to pop an incense and per tundra to pop an mithirl.

Then do a second loop over all landplots (maybe even in the second turn) and randomly distribute the resources over the called terrains. if no desert, dschungle or tundra exists you might define alternative terrains to place them.
if you hide incense and reagents at the beginning of the tech tree the players would not even notice it. And you could do it between turn 2 and 3 and between turn 3 and 4 (as the first turn needs a lot time anyway)


How about using gems for archmages and reagents for summoners to further split it up? And giving some mystical resach bonus if you remove a (hidden) mana beneath a city...

I would prefer simple handle raw mana as the ancient temple resource, maybe give only one XP, and available with knowledge of ether.

How about doing the same check you do for ancient forests but only in the first round of the game. loop over all land plot, count mithil, reagents, incence, dschungle features, deserts, tundra. then calculate the number of additional resurces that need to be placed (maybe dependend on total plots and number of players) and calculate a chance per dschungle to pop a reagent, per desert to pop an incense and per tundra to pop an mithirl.

Then do a second loop over all landplots (maybe even in the second turn) and randomly distribute the resources over the called terrains. if no desert, dschungle or tundra exists you might define alternative terrains to place them.
if you hide incense and reagents at the beginning of the tech tree the players would not even notice it. And you could do it between turn 2 and 3 and between turn 3 and 4 (as the first turn needs a lot time anyway)


How about using gems for archmages and reagents for summoners to further split it up? And giving some mystical resach bonus if you remove a (hidden) mana beneath a city...

Right now reagents are only used by archmages and summoners (and veil priests which dont really count), I hate to cut a bonus back to only being used by 1 unit.

I think you are right about having the mod spawn the missing resources. I'll add it to the to do list.

What if they built on the node after knowledge of the ether was researched?

I wouldn't allow that. :)

Or you could just lose the node - forcing people not to build on that spot once you get the tech could get annoying.

Reading the Elohim description gave me an idea--what it you had really powerful resources representing these sacred places that would be unique--only one of each on each map, and only a few total, maybe randomly chosen from a pool. Like the "pool of tears" Might exist in one forrest on the map, and give +2 food, +4 production and +4 commerce or something, and there would be 3 such sacred sites on the whole standard size map.

it seems like people have been complaining at the power that vampires have. to counteract this, the obvious solution is to make 'garlic' a resource. it would provide commerce and happiness bonus as well as upgrade your units to ward of the forces of darkenss. or if you happen to be the forces of darkness, you simply get the bonuses and keep others from it.

Reading the Elohim description gave me an idea--what it you had really powerful resources representing these sacred places that would be unique--only one of each on each map, and only a few total, maybe randomly chosen from a pool. Like the "pool of tears" Might exist in one forrest on the map, and give +2 food, +4 production and +4 commerce or something, and there would be 3 such sacred sites on the whole standard size map.

We havent gotten to that point yet but I agree with you. I would love to have a list of 10-12 unique features, of which a random number (depending on map size) are spawned on each map.

it seems like people have been complaining at the power that vampires have. to counteract this, the obvious solution is to make 'garlic' a resource. it would provide commerce and happiness bonus as well as upgrade your units to ward of the forces of darkenss. or if you happen to be the forces of darkness, you simply get the bonuses and keep others from it.

I never really liked the "classic horror" version of vampires that hated garlic, couldnt be seen in mirrors, had to be killed with a wooden stake through the heart, were afriad of crosses, etc. I always assumed the legends were designed by fantasy garlic, mirror, stake and cross salesmen. :)

Seriously, these myths come from a variety of sources and have been lumped together to form the current vampire popular image. When designing a vampire for a game/book/movie you have to descide which of these legends you want to use and which you dont. In FfH vampires are living creatures, sustained by blood and by draining the life from their victims to sustain their own potentially forever.

One piece I did keep (other than the drinking blood part) was the vampires hatred for sunlight. It doesnt kill them as it does in RPG's but vampires in Erebus were uncomfortable in sunlight. This is because of Lugus hatred for vampires, particuarly Alexis who became the first vampire by killing a priest of Lugus. The story is covered in Alexis's pedia entry.

New Resource: Runestone

Towards the late game, it can be a bit frustrating that your newly trained Adepts will be pretty mcuh useless, as it will take forever to get them to decent levels and get them upgrades. Runestones is an attempt to alleviate this a bit.

Runestones are revealed with Arcane Lore. They do not provide any special bonuses, nor do they count as a resource you can "link up" to. Their only effect is that a caster unit can enter their tile, and choose to "decipher runes", gaining them a sizeable xp-boost(10-20), and destroying the stone. Deciphering takes a few turns.
Runestones should be fairly rare, but might occasionally spawn later in the game.

Nice idea Corlindale.

I'd like to add in Mushrooms per our discussion in another thread about Subterranean civs.

Bright day
About mana nodes under cities- how about giving every civ a "preference" for certain magic so that build over nodes give you "prefered" mana?

I never really liked the "classic horror" version of vampires that hated garlic, couldnt be seen in mirrors, had to be killed with a wooden stake through the heart, were afriad of crosses, etc. I always assumed the legends were designed by fantasy garlic, mirror, stake and cross salesmen. :)

Seriously, these myths come from a variety of sources and have been lumped together to form the current vampire popular image. When designing a vampire for a game/book/movie you have to descide which of these legends you want to use and which you dont. In FfH vampires are living creatures, sustained by blood and by draining the life from their victims to sustain their own potentially forever.

One piece I did keep (other than the drinking blood part) was the vampires hatred for sunlight. It doesnt kill them as it does in RPG's but vampires in Erebus were uncomfortable in sunlight. This is because of Lugus hatred for vampires, particuarly Alexis who became the first vampire by killing a priest of Lugus. The story is covered in Alexis's pedia entry.

I agree that it does seem silly. Speaking of silly vs. legends, I notice that you don't have any silver in FfH. Is that intentional? You have copper, iron, gold, etc. but no silver. Maybe it hurts werewolves, maybe it doesn't, but it does seem like a normal "luxury" resource that you've left out. Is there none in the FfH world?:confused:

Silver was changed to Mithril.
Probably we will be adding it back in as a resource that is only spawned by Khazad mines. When we get a new Resource graphic for Mithril.

I think you should let Silver for every civ, as in most fantasy wolrds Silver is used by everyone as jewels and etc.

Maybe we simply rename gold to "precious metal" :D or something and give a different resource to the dwarfen mine :)

Kael do you hear me.. rename gold.. that will make those unbelievers criing for silver silent....

Hahaha

Thats a good solution, but mithril is a precious metal because it makes good weapons/armors....

Haha just j/k =P

Bee Hive resource........just watching the history channel yesterday or the day before and there is a claim that honey is antibacterial....so much in fact that it was supposedly used by ancient Egyptionsfor treating injuries that broke the skin and other infections....Imhotep is accredited for it of course ...Egyptologists....however interesting fact about honey.( Its's fermentation gives you MEAD!)Honey is a wonderful carbohydrate source,longer lasting than most glucose producers up to 8 hours instead of the 1.5 to 2.5 hours of others......that is why it is the best sugar for Diabetics.......but honey and for that matter beeswax have a multitude of other purposes and I haven't seen it....not saying it isn't there.....I just haven't seen it.....wow, that's funny, honey to prevent tooth decay!

Wine is a resource, why is not beer in the game?

Beer: Makes Lorgen happy :D

Btw You guys know the similarity between making love in a canoo and american beer?

No?

Its both fu**ing close to water

Not sure if Clay is still being thought about, but some places Clay can be found are along the coast and near rivers and swamps usually. Also of interest is that Clay is formed in mass due to Glaciation and exposed by the retreat of it (fits with theme). And a quarry would make more sense than a workshop, and then make a building for pottery making.

It'd be nice to see Silver in because of its anti-evil and holy properties in many myths and fantasies. Even using silver instead of iron would be nice.

I read somewhere someone saying dwarves should use pigs for their horses.. if they do (and in the spirit of non-domestication and a more dangerous realm) pigs should be changed to boars and look a lil scarier. And as a neat side thing, maybe make resources like this occasionally spawn boar animal units (if you have them pastured, they join you, if not, barbarians).

Maybe replace reagents with Arcane Wood (or name it Silvertrees or something mythical) that is required to build Arcane Barges (and eventually Floating Ships if such ever exist, or maybe a "building/wonder" that makes the city a floating city granting special bonuses) and Archmages/Summoners. But also make it a little more common (though only in woods, removed if the trees are, and adding production and trade, not revealed until Knowledge of the Ether, and activated by a lumbermill) than reagents (I've had games with no reagents on the map at all O_o).
And maybe make it so lumbermill is necessary for any buildings/boats, but you only need a road for Archmages/Summoners (the idea being you need actual lumber for boats and such, but only twigs/leaves for the reagent purposes of an Archmage/Summoner).

How about putting some stationary monsters on mana nodes protecting them? (like they had in Master of Mana)

Stationary Monsters (on Monster nodes) are planned for the fire release...

Awesome news Chalid...When you conquer the monster node, do you accrue the ability to produce those monsters? Excellent.

Awesome news Chalid...When you conquer the monster node, do you accrue the ability to produce those monsters? Excellent.

Producing the monsters is sceduled for shadow i believe.

Producing the monsters is sceduled for shadow i believe.

Yeapers, Loki is right.

Thinking of MMORPG Runescape and it's resources.

Copper: Plenty of it, gives lousy weapons
Iron: Pretty much, beats copper weapons
Steel: Produced by melting Iron and Coal
Mithril: Somewhat rare, gives good weapons
Addamantite: Rare, beats mith
Runite: Very rare. Ultimate weapons

For example if you have access to addamantite resource and the right building for melting this. It automatically gives all units produced the addamantite armor and weapons.

It would be cool if discovering runite or addamantite mining techs, the resource would appear on map. Exacly as is is for steel and mith today.

As I see it in FFH, there is no real killer resource, like oil in vanilla civ. The runite could be a possible killer resource.

Also, it wold be cool if there was a giant red dragon sitting on the only runite resource when spawning in the late era. he he

Not sure if Clay is still being thought about, but some places Clay can be found are along the coast and near rivers and swamps usually. Also of interest is that Clay is formed in mass due to Glaciation and exposed by the retreat of it (fits with theme). And a quarry would make more sense than a workshop, and then make a building for pottery making.

It'd be nice to see Silver in because of its anti-evil and holy properties in many myths and fantasies. Even using silver instead of iron would be nice.

I read somewhere someone saying dwarves should use pigs for their horses.. if they do (and in the spirit of non-domestication and a more dangerous realm) pigs should be changed to boars and look a lil scarier. And as a neat side thing, maybe make resources like this occasionally spawn boar animal units (if you have them pastured, they join you, if not, barbarians).

Maybe replace reagents with Arcane Wood (or name it Silvertrees or something mythical) that is required to build Arcane Barges (and eventually Floating Ships if such ever exist, or maybe a "building/wonder" that makes the city a floating city granting special bonuses) and Archmages/Summoners. But also make it a little more common (though only in woods, removed if the trees are, and adding production and trade, not revealed until Knowledge of the Ether, and activated by a lumbermill) than reagents (I've had games with no reagents on the map at all O_o).
And maybe make it so lumbermill is necessary for any buildings/boats, but you only need a road for Archmages/Summoners (the idea being you need actual lumber for boats and such, but only twigs/leaves for the reagent purposes of an Archmage/Summoner).
When you say pig I hope you mean Boar, granted people may not know the difference but Giant Boar would seem more appropriate don't you think considering the Worgs of opposing species?

Ya, I agree. And I said pig when I spoke of whats currently implemented only (if no changes were made to the actual resource, atleast pigs could be used instead of horses), for FfH2 it should be boars to show the less civilized nature of the world, and also because larger boars could be ridden potentially.

Here I have made a general list of resources. Some might fit well in this fantasy mod.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=163860
Like: timber, berries, rabbit, potatoe, flax, chicken, apples, clay, obsidian, honey, mushroom, reeds, seal

No additional resources are planned except for hell. We are not going for simply "more" but we want the things we introduce to have an strategic value and they shall bring interesting decisions or new concepts.

So proposals that include an interesting mechanics have a good chance to be considered. Flavor Proposals might get included if we develop an interesting mechanig but need an flavor for it.

Pottery-found in deserts and gives +1 trade routes! Needs a quarry on it.

what about changing wheat to the name grain then allow it to have two builds onit, farming produces grain, but you can add a winery to get beer
also you can add a winery on corn or sugar to get liquor
Also adding winery to rice to make wine ( rice wine)

I know Regents has been discussed as a problem in the past. I agree that Regents is already at a minimum usefulness only being used for 2 units + ritualist. The problem is that it is required for the only 2 level 3 tier arcane units.

I think Regents should be switched out from Archmage and Summoner to Conjurer and Summoner. Flavorwise it makes the regents represent a more ceremonial type of magic. Gameplaywise it gives you a strategic choice if you don't have regents near you - conquer to get it or live without summoning magic.

Currently, you pretty much have to go after Regents to stay competitive late game. As the number of Regents per map is rightfully pretty limited this means end game there are fewer powers capable of fielding tier 3 arcane casters. It also means that the human player will realize this and plan from the start to maneuver to them while the computer will not be this manipulative.

- feydras

i also have wondered about spreading resources around. with all the resources now it may be more useful to spread resources out along different lines.

especially game, furs, insence, and dyes.

these thigns are basically found everywhere

game can be found in every land type all lands had hunters.
furs are basically the same all land types produce furs of one sort or another.
insence is something burned that smells good and this of course is produced in all lands as well.
as is Dyes Dyes are produced from many plant and rock material Dyes could be produced from lots of sources.

bye producing many areas like that i elarned it allows you to add mroe resources without crowding land space.

like adding a generic fruit good that can fit in all land types as from tree fruit to berries to mellons their are many types of fruits grown in many types of lands

just an idea to spread the wealth

I've been musing on some resources (with the importance on uses for them instead of new ones).

I find I never make elven horsemen, they just seem too ordinary and all my units get 2 movement in forests already, it'd be neat if they used Elks (change deer to elk) instead of horses, and really gained double movement in woods.
Currently its weird, if a unit has 1 movement and double movement in woods, it can move through two forest squares, and if it has 2 movement and double movement in woods, it can move through two forest squares only.
Dwarves using Pigs/Boars for riding, Elves using Deer/Elk, someone using Elephants, most others using horses, variety is nice and would give them different values to different civs, increasing trade.

Changing Sheep to Birds would be neat, it could be a needed resource for training Hawks/Ravens, and maybe needed for archers/longbowmen (the feathers).

Another thought about Reagents: How about instead of a general 'Reagents' resource, instead all (or some) level 3 spells require a specific resource to be able to cast?

why remove sheep to gain birds why not jsut add birds as a resource as you say birds are a prize possetion for meat, eggs, feathers, and pets.

Because FfH is not about "more".

Sheep is not that usefull, so it could be changed to a more usefull resource, thats what Sureshot is saying (I think), instead of just adding another resource. As Kael says, one more thing is one more thing to the player to keep track of, one more thing to teach the AI to use, etc.

So is better to transform a present resource that doesn´t have much value into one resource that has value, instead of simply adding another resource.

My reasoning was in case they don't wish to add more resources, to change/remove ones that have no use beyond yield/+1happy/+1health, Sheep are merely a slightly altered Cow (different bonus yield i think), which also provides nothing other than its bonus yield and +1 health (though Cow might be used the the Cow catapult thingy).
The hope being, that in the end all resources have bonus yield and +1happiness(or +1health) and a strategic use (needed for building somethings).

Edit: Exactly Julius.

Edit added: Part of my initial reasoning (that which led me to pick sheep specifically) was birds could be domesticated to chickens, which which be a food source also, and Sheep are the smallest non-rideable, animal, food resource (I consider pigs and deer possibly rideable, and Furs give happiness/commerce not food).

pottery could give a bonus (+100%?) for building workboats
(50% if the world is more than half water)

Why should it ? I don´t know what pottery has to do whit ships o_0

Hmm, for some reason I keep getting new ideas for the mod today... ah well, maybe the team won't kill me for posting too many of them. :)

How about some sort of rare Corrupted/Infernal Mana? It'd be a mana node that you can build an improvement on and it provides you the extra mana as normal, but in addition it also has some empire-wide negative effects. Say, +2 unhealthiness to every city, or a 2% chance every turn to summon a demon on the corrupted node. Maybe it'd even have a chance of corrupting your other nodes as well, though that might be a bit too drastic.

The idea behind the Corrupted Node is that mana is so rare in many games that players will be forced to make tough decisions about whether or not they consider the extra mana valuable enough to warrant the downsides. Maybe even make it provide *two* mana resources, if it's not tempting enough otherwise. You can harness the powers of darkness and become stronger than you ever imagined... if only you're ready to pay the cost. (The AI could be told to either ignore the Corrupted Nodes or build on them, depending on the leader.)

Also, once you get to Fire, each Corrupted Node that was being used would probably increase the Armageddon counter. And a high enough counter could start corrupting previously safe nodes.

Calimari-yeah and this resource will upset all the Overlords if you dont turn it into attacking octopi/Squid Units and if some overlord invades your area he should be able to turn the resouorce against the occuppying Civ

pottery is used to store things like salt, fish, fresh water, ect on board the ships (stone was too heavy for this and metal wasn't very cheap)
i got the idea from age of empires 2 "salt amphorae"

Perhaps it could be good to have the option of using a mana node to allow access to demon summoners and/or archmages, for when you don't have reagents. But any mages/conjurers upgraded this way receive a penalty?

Well, okay poterry is used to store things inside ships, but what that has to do whit BUILDING SHIPS ? o_0

yeah i think Timber would be better resource for building ships and require a harbor to build them making harbors more liked by the AI

We hardly need a timber resource, I know some trees may be better than others, but any civ map is crawling with timber.
a slight tweak though, maybe chop rushing should give double bonus when building ships.

special magic rescources found in hell-

mana dust-found in hell\maybe after certain armagedon spells have been cast
free spell extension I for adepts

diabolic treasure- found under the city of dis/in the city
grants a random(first sphere, combat I, mobility I, spell extension I) promotion to new adepts

sigil of celerity (only one, either in hell or produced by a wonder)
-free mobility promotion for adepts

a little magic boost for the adventurous type...

Here are some from another mod, that they use. I personally like tobacco and coffee, has been around since the dawn of man.

Here is another great looking one. They need to be spliced together to make one ok.

Guys, you're making the mistake of suggesting additions just for the sake of suggesting additions. The mod already has a lot of resources - the team's not going to add yet another resource that provides +1 happiness or halves the time to build ships or whatever. If you're going to suggest a new resource, it has to be different from all the other resources if you want to have a chance at getting it in. And "having this resource provides +3 culture in each city" isn't really different either - it's still just another resource to be hooked up for your civilization.

For an example of something different, think Mana. You don't just hook mana nodes up to your empire and be done with it - first of all, you have to decide *what* sort of mana you want to harvest from a node. Your decision will affect what sort of spells your units will learn. If you build Entropy or Death nodes, other civilizations will look at you badly, so you have to take that into account, too. Much more interesting than just having an extra "timber" or "tobacco" resource that isn't functionally any different from any of the other resources. My Corrupted Mana idea was another example (though the team didn't say anything on it, for one reason or another) of a functionally different resource. It's not just mana on steroids, but it'd force the player to make a tough decision - does he really want the extra mana badly enough to weaken his whole empire in other ways?

Of course, I'm not a member of the Team, so I don't really speak for them. But from their postings, this is the impression that I've got. Make your resources unique, make them special.

Or better yet, change the effects of the old resources too, for more variation.

But your example with timber is a bad example. It should be needed for bigger boats/ships. Tall and good trees are not that common.

But your example with timber is a bad example. It should be needed for bigger boats/ships. Tall and good trees are not that common.

That gives me a nasty idea. How about a special new ship type that's much stronger than any of the other ships - but you need to cut down Ancient Forests in order to build it?

Suddenly all those Fellowship civilizations realize that they're under siege by hostile civs that want their precious trees very much... those ancient trees that have stood there for generations and are almost alive themselves, and once they're slain and used to build ships their spirits bestow near-magical powers to those ships they're used for (and now I remind myself of Liveship Traders).

And for what it's worth, there are pearls already, you just have to play as Lanun to see them!

i think the best change is to move resources to different land types if you go back to next page you will see my suggestion more clearly but this worked when i was working on mods for the Civ three and im sure this would make things better in this version as well

those ancient trees that have stood there for generations and are almost alive themselves
You know trees are alive, right? :P

You know trees are alive, right? :P

. . .I guess I had that one coming. :D

Resource villages? Provide access to monster units or other civ’s exclusive units. These villages may need to be harvested to produce resource-type emigrants that can be settled in a city that will be able to produce the special units.

I've read the discussion on this so far, and it’s really fascinating, I hope this concept is on the agenda.


I was thinking up some ideas for when I start my mod this summer and I started to think about the nature of resources in civilizations. In Civ3 there was always enough to go around if you wanted to share, it would be concentrated in certain regions and some civs would have more access than others, but generally by the end of the game the best civilization could have one of everything.
Playing through the various incarnations/releases of FfH, I found that sometimes, even if you scoured two continents, you would not find someone to trade with you for that special resource you needed to build that special unit. I was a bit frustrated when I was in a position where I could not create any disciple units because the resources for each one were beyond my grasp.
I don’t think I've ever built a single horseman in all the times I have played. Then again, I don't regenerate the map when I am in a bad position. Still, I like what the scarcity of requisite resources does; it makes certain civilizations unique in their capacity to produce a type of units in a given game.
This really hurts sometimes though. So that started me thinking, how else could resources be used to differentiate game play experience, but still allow you the full experience of using almost every technology you have gained and fit with a fantasy gaming experience? Legendary Resources.
Resources that can only benefit the closest city to them, or even only are accessed by working the tile they are in. They can make that specific city able to build unique buildings or resources that differentiate them from all other cites on the globe, and even make them more dangerous to maintain. A Wyvern's nest resource could give a bonus to gold and the ability to build 3 national 'trained wyvern' or 'wyvern rider' units, but has a chance of spawning a 'rogue wyvern' barbarian unit that will pillage the countryside and lay siege to your cities. (Wyverns could use the hawk model and animations with a dragon head and tail and legs)
You could also make it so that rangers with animal empathy (do they get it free?) who are level three or higher, could enter a nest and be upgraded/ or sacrificed to tamed monster/monster rider.
There could also be other legedary resources, blue marble that lets you build a great water temple that grants 3 water mana and/or grants divine 1 and water I & II to all disciple units built there (etc. for all mana types), standing stones that grant animal empathy to all unity built in the city and allows you to build a building that grants all units built in the city woodsman II, Rich mountains which allow several types of mines to be built, each one granting access to a different type of metal/stone to the closest city.
There's my idea. If it would fit with your mod, that’s awesome, I would love to see it implemented. If not, I will simply have to get my design team working on it...If I can ever assemble one as great as you guys.

Btw Kael and design team Inc.,
How did you guys get together and started on this mod? Is it covered in your how to design a mod thread? If I started a mod would you guys be willing to lend a hand now and again. Thanks in advance (for an answer.)
-Xereq

I've read the discussion on this so far, and it’s really fascinating, I hope this concept is on the agenda.


Yeap, is scheduled for a add feature in "Shadow".

I was thinking up some ideas for when I start my mod this summer and I started to think about the nature of resources in civilizations. In Civ3 there was always enough to go around if you wanted to share, it would be concentrated in certain regions and some civs would have more access than others, but generally by the end of the game the best civilization could have one of everything.
Playing through the various incarnations/releases of FfH, I found that sometimes, even if you scoured two continents, you would not find someone to trade with you for that special resource you needed to build that special unit. I was a bit frustrated when I was in a position where I could not create any disciple units because the resources for each one were beyond my grasp.
I don’t think I've ever built a single horseman in all the times I have played. Then again, I don't regenerate the map when I am in a bad position. Still, I like what the scarcity of requisite resources does; it makes certain civilizations unique in their capacity to produce a type of units in a given game.
This really hurts sometimes though. So that started me thinking, how else could resources be used to differentiate game play experience, but still allow you the full experience of using almost every technology you have gained and fit with a fantasy gaming experience? Legendary Resources.
Resources that can only benefit the closest city to them, or even only are accessed by working the tile they are in. They can make that specific city able to build unique buildings or resources that differentiate them from all other cites on the globe, and even make them more dangerous to maintain. A Wyvern's nest resource could give a bonus to gold and the ability to build 3 national 'trained wyvern' or 'wyvern rider' units, but has a chance of spawning a 'rogue wyvern' barbarian unit that will pillage the countryside and lay siege to your cities. (Wyverns could use the hawk model and animations with a dragon head and tail and legs)
You could also make it so that rangers with animal empathy (do they get it free?) who are level three or higher, could enter a nest and be upgraded/ or sacrificed to tamed monster/monster rider.
There could also be other legedary resources, blue marble that lets you build a great water temple that grants 3 water mana and/or grants divine 1 and water I & II to all disciple units built there (etc. for all mana types), standing stones that grant animal empathy to all unity built in the city and allows you to build a building that grants all units built in the city woodsman II, Rich mountains which allow several types of mines to be built, each one granting access to a different type of metal/stone to the closest city.
There's my idea. If it would fit with your mod, that’s awesome, I would love to see it implemented. If not, I will simply have to get my design team working on it...If I can ever assemble one as great as you guys.

Btw Kael and design team Inc.,
How did you guys get together and started on this mod? Is it covered in your how to design a mod thread? If I started a mod would you guys be willing to lend a hand now and again. Thanks in advance (for an answer.)
-Xereq

Yeah, the design a mod thread offers pretty good advice. I started FfH and released the first version on my own. Based on that I got a lot of feedback and offers to help from people much more talented than I am. I really believe you have to be ready to go on your own and be thankful of any help you get. I see a lot of requests for teams go out before the leader has put much work into the project and those projects typically don't do well.

So first comes the mod (at least an early version), then come the people to help with it.

Im always willing to help and answer question for other mod makers and I think you will find that everyone on the FfH team are major contributors to other sections of this site as well, so Im sure they will help out as they are able. Get a working version up, ask question if you get stuck and hopefully that will start the ball rolling.

Thanks again Kael. I'll start on the XML before I ask for any actual work. Now about Legendary Resources; yeah, nay, or I'll get back to you on that one?

Edit: Also I noticed you don't want anymore dragons, and that wyverns are pretty close to dragons. Another exaple with working artwork that isn't in FfH yet would be a Griffin roost, or a giant eagle flock.

I read somewhere else in the forum about keeping mana generic until a node is on it so that strategy isnt restricted, which I think is a nice idea.

With the current mana system though its easy to build a mana node that you need for a specific building/unit, and then once its built destroy the node and rebuild it as a different mana. This means you can essentially get every kind of mana from one node if u just sit a couple of adepts on it, which weakens the idea of mana specific features.

How about making it so that once a node was built, it stayed as that type of mana? The choice is still yours but isnt so easy to go back on (like changing alignment when u adopt a religion). Maybe an archmage or similarly high level unit could change it if you wanted to leave some level of flexibility there.

@z00t: We started discussing this thing just yesterday.
Levaing the nodes permanent and introducing an late game spell that changes them on the cost of the caster is in discussion.
But the main problem lies than not with nodes you built yourself but with conquered nodes. Often you conquer something like 4 body nodes or death and entropy nodes. These nodes are then wasted resources if you are not able to change their mana - which makes conquering to get different kinds of mana often not worth the trouble. So we think about which penalty could be given to a player that pillages his node.

Any proposals? Right now we have as idears:
- The node dissapears and reappears within 5 or 10 tiles of his former position, so he could travel into enemy lands.
- The node is switched to an inactive kind of mana that has a small chance every turn to get back to normal mana. This way pillaging your node will usually make it unusable for an defined interval of (i would aim at) 150 to 250 turns. If you are lucky you can use it after few turns, if you are unlucky you wait 500 turns before you can reuse it. So it is a though decision.

perhaps destroying a node of a certain type of mana should make that spell sphere unusable for a certain amount of time, if that can be coded. or make that sphere unusable in promotions for some time (sounds more easy to code).

I like the idea of "wild mana" (uncontrollable rather than unusable) that cant be built on for some time after destroying a node, maybe add some fallout or its magical equivalent in the surrounding area as well.

moving the mana is a bit of a hit or miss penalty as it might be deep within your borders.

destroying a node should probably destroy the unit too =)

some more ideas on destroying nodes

a shockwave similar to ring of fire, that destroys all improvements within the radius of the mana, kills the unit (unless hes a tier 4 arcane/disciple?) and leaves some negative effect on the terrain.

some kind of elemental unit that spawn on that tile and only defends (water elemental, earth elemental, etc) similar to the way treants spawn. It has to either be beaten or left alone until it slips back into the ether on its own, which takes a long time. I like this idea a lot, but balancing the strength of the elemental against the timeline of gaining stronger units could be problematic.

@ Zoot: The idea of having to sacrifice a high-tier unit (at least mage, if not higher) in order to pillage an mana node sounds like a good one to me, although perhaps not quite as harsh as your shockwave.

double post...

I'm going to suggest this for the third time, but I think now I'm posting it in the correct place — I know, the first time was back in 0.8~0.9 and I hadn't actually suggested the concept, I had only suggested one of these and the second time was simply the same suggestion but with a magical item that led to the activation of it :).
Resource Wonders: A resource, which only one of spawns in an entire map (sometimes none). This resource is then worked on by workers (sometimes maybe monks/high priests). After a long time of being worked on, this resource can produce certain units or work as a wonder by giving a certain promotion to all units built. Cities receive their culture bonus (and all other bonuses, other than spawning units, etc.) by working the tile the wonder is on.
Now that've I've actually suggested the concept, you can just go ahead and suggest a wonder (keep in mind that Kael hasn't approved of this... yet, MUHAHAHAHA :D).

is there anyway to change resources around to test what is good

im not a programmer so is there an easy editor yet?

Only able to find with mine. After you would "mine" archaeological findings, you'd be able to build an additional improvement on it which would give culture and whatnot (and Adventurer points to Grigori, in their capital of course. In fact, if possible, I'd make ruins and ancient temples do the same for Grigori).

I have a resource question that is building related....markets are these Civ only markets or do the reach to other Civs or doen't that occur until Foreign Trade and if so should that give a fractional to be built up resource draw like 1/10 or 1/4.......from other civs or do those things have to be traded for.
Is their any black market resources scheduled for the future like for Shadow or something.......pondering away.

@z00t: We started discussing this thing just yesterday.
Levaing the nodes permanent and introducing an late game spell that changes them on the cost of the caster is in discussion.
But the main problem lies than not with nodes you built yourself but with conquered nodes. Often you conquer something like 4 body nodes or death and entropy nodes. These nodes are then wasted resources if you are not able to change their mana - which makes conquering to get different kinds of mana often not worth the trouble. So we think about which penalty could be given to a player that pillages his node.

Any proposals? Right now we have as idears:
- The node dissapears and reappears within 5 or 10 tiles of his former position, so he could travel into enemy lands.
- The node is switched to an inactive kind of mana that has a small chance every turn to get back to normal mana. This way pillaging your node will usually make it unusable for an defined interval of (i would aim at) 150 to 250 turns. If you are lucky you can use it after few turns, if you are unlucky you wait 500 turns before you can reuse it. So it is a though decision.

Thoughts on the problem:

It strikes me that while node switching is a cheap tactic, it fits the over all theme of the FFH world. Perhaps Node switching from "generic" mana is able to be done by workers, but from one type of mana to another is only able to be done by adepts? After conquering a mana node, should not the magic-users RUSH in to begin work on their might/evil designs?

Perhaps that last mana node was all that was preventing the evil Calabim from raising an undead army and sweeping the lands with their darkness, and lo our hero throws himself onto the sword to stop construction of the death mana siphon. (Insert cool story here).
It strikes me that in game terms, gaining lots of useless nodes trhough conquest would limit the flow of the game. Allowing node switching allows for cheap tactics and getting "everything". The solution to this is not to kill the units switching, (except for perhaps death nodes), the solution to this is to make mana nodes very fragile and extreamly hard to construct/maintain.

Mechanically, im not sure how this should be done. But it should create incentives to GUARD the mana nodes from....inscruplulous and insideous characters. For the construction of another node (and/or loss therein) might cripple the magic-weilding capabilities. Is there a way for the game to check if a caster has access to the mana? In .15 it's assumed that casters will be allowed access to a spell-level if they've the mana to get there. But what if theyve achieved fire 3, and then lost a fire node in war? At 2 fire mana, are the casters still able to use fire 3 spells? Mayhap there is a way to prevent this, and force guarding of mana to be important. The importance of guarding minerals like copper and iron is that without them, the civ may not produce those units required of them. With magic, an adept is all that is trainable, and a paitent player can level him up and wait for the mana to become available......losing NO time for haivng lost mana nodes. If the units were actually produceable and obsoleteable, then the loss of mana nodes would mean the loss of the ability to produce the appropriate magic-users.

I dont know how or if this should be done. I simply examined the nature of strategy in conquest and the consequences for specific actions. Need and advantage define much of CIV strategy. There is little pain for losing a node, and little gain for stealing one. Before the question of "what to do with conquered nodes" comes up, the question of "what does losing a node mean?" should be answered first. If there is a tangible reason NOT to allow the loss of a node, then your answer to what to do with conquered nodes is automatically answered, as the conquered will want it back, and the conquering will want to add to their advancing profit.

Potential Solution:
Make FAR less mana nodes in the world. When a mana node is produced, it grows, like a village. It starts at one, ends at 4. Each progression makes KEEPING that node important, becuase its loss (which should be instant, not leveled like villages) would mean having to restart at 1, a loss of mana over time would be painful. ANd with LESS mana in the world, each source of it would be FAR more important.

EDIT: Possible Mana growth: Node =1 Vein = 2 Well = 3 Font = 4

-Qes

Thoughts on the problem:

It strikes me that while node switching is a cheap tactic, it fits the over all theme of the FFH world. Perhaps Node switching from "generic" mana is able to be done by workers, but from one type of mana to another is only able to be done by adepts? After conquering a mana node, should not the magic-users RUSH in to begin work on their might/evil designs?

Perhaps that last mana node was all that was preventing the evil Calabim from raising an undead army and sweeping the lands with their darkness, and lo our hero throws himself onto the sword to stop construction of the death mana siphon. (Insert cool story here).
It strikes me that in game terms, gaining lots of useless nodes trhough conquest would limit the flow of the game. Allowing node switching allows for cheap tactics and getting "everything". The solution to this is not to kill the units switching, (except for perhaps death nodes), the solution to this is to make mana nodes very fragile and extreamly hard to construct/maintain.

Mechanically, im not sure how this should be done. But it should create incentives to GUARD the mana nodes from....inscruplulous and insideous characters. For the construction of another node (and/or loss therein) might cripple the magic-weilding capabilities. Is there a way for the game to check if a caster has access to the mana? In .15 it's assumed that casters will be allowed access to a spell-level if they've the mana to get there. But what if theyve achieved fire 3, and then lost a fire node in war? At 2 fire mana, are the casters still able to use fire 3 spells? Mayhap there is a way to prevent this, and force guarding of mana to be important. The importance of guarding minerals like copper and iron is that without them, the civ may not produce those units required of them. With magic, an adept is all that is trainable, and a paitent player can level him up and wait for the mana to become available......losing NO time for haivng lost mana nodes. If the units were actually produceable and obsoleteable, then the loss of mana nodes would mean the loss of the ability to produce the appropriate magic-users.

I dont know how or if this should be done. I simply examined the nature of strategy in conquest and the consequences for specific actions. Need and advantage define much of CIV strategy. There is little pain for losing a node, and little gain for stealing one. Before the question of "what to do with conquered nodes" comes up, the question of "what does losing a node mean?" should be answered first. If there is a tangible reason NOT to allow the loss of a node, then your answer to what to do with conquered nodes is automatically answered, as the conquered will want it back, and the conquering will want to add to their advancing profit.

Potential Solution:
Make FAR less mana nodes in the world. When a mana node is produced, it grows, like a village. It starts at one, ends at 4. Each progression makes KEEPING that node important, becuase its loss (which should be instant, not leveled like villages) would mean having to restart at 1, a loss of mana over time would be painful. ANd with LESS mana in the world, each source of it would be FAR more important.

EDIT: Possible Mana growth: Node =1 Vein = 2 Well = 3 Font = 4

-Qes

In 0.15 the mana is only needed for rank 1 of the spell sphere. After that point you can learn to rank 3 regardless of available mana (although multiple sources of that mana give you free ranks so there is a benifit of multiple mana, nut no requirement).

The reason we arent adding more requirements or mana growth is just because I am pretty conservative with changes. If I change a bunch of stuff and people dont like it I have to go back and forth. So I make one restrictive change (you have to have the mana to learn the sphere) and then get it out to you guys for testing. If there needs to be more I will do more.

The first strike to weaken spellcasters was the level requirements. This is the second strike, just in that it forces specialization. The third big one will hopefully be that the Ai will go after spellcasters more aggresivly.

Outside of those 3 things we do want to change the nodes to make the players decisions permanent. I wont make that change until workers no longer upgrade nodes (since to often they upgrade a node to the wrong mana type). Before I can remove workers ability to upgrade nodes I need the Ai to do a good job of upgrading its nodes with adepts. Once we can do all of those things we can put together a more costly method for chanign mana types. Which will probably be that it doesnt convert back to base mana on pillage, but does on conversion, so you can only pick what you want it to be once.

In 0.15 the mana is only needed for rank 1 of the spell sphere. After that point you can learn to rank 3 regardless of available mana (although multiple sources of that mana give you free ranks so there is a benifit of multiple mana, nut no requirement).

The reason we arent adding more requirements or mana growth is just because I am pretty conservative with changes. If I change a bunch of stuff and people dont like it I have to go back and forth. So I make one restrictive change (you have to have the mana to learn the sphere) and then get it out to you guys for testing. If there needs to be more I will do more.

The first strike to weaken spellcasters was the level requirements. This is the second strike, just in that it forces specialization. The third big one will hopefully be that the Ai will go after spellcasters more aggresivly.

Outside of those 3 things we do want to change the nodes to make the players decisions permanent. I wont make that change until workers no longer upgrade nodes (since to often they upgrade a node to the wrong mana type). Before I can remove workers ability to upgrade nodes I need the Ai to do a good job of upgrading its nodes with adepts. Once we can do all of those things we can put together a more costly method for chanign mana types. Which will probably be that it doesnt convert back to base mana on pillage, but does on conversion, so you can only pick what you want it to be once.

So, whats the idea then when evil deathmagic users storm in and conquer the peaceful nature mana users? It would make sense that the death magic users would want to transform the nature mana into death mana (for whatever reason). Should this be possible? Or is it that whomever develops the node first, gets to chose what it is. And it stays like that?

-Qes

Not everyone wants to change things. I wouldn't want the basic mechanic messed around with, myself. If I were a death magic user, I'd probably have enough death mana, so another one wouldn't be a necessity...

So, whats the idea then when evil deathmagic users storm in and conquer the peaceful nature mana users? It would make sense that the death magic users would want to transform the nature mana into death mana (for whatever reason). Should this be possible? Or is it that whomever develops the node first, gets to chose what it is. And it stays like that?

-Qes

The mana would drop back to base mana on conversion (so a player has one chance to set it as he wants). So if you caputre a death node from an empire and you are a goodly person that death node will turn into raw mana when you capture it. Then you can make it what you want.

The mana would drop back to base mana on conversion (so a player has one chance to set it as he wants). So if you caputre a death node from an empire and you are a goodly person that death node will turn into raw mana when you capture it. Then you can make it what you want.
That sounds like a great idea, but at present, the AI has a tendency to pillage just about everything, any chance they get, even, in many cases, at the expense of their attacks on the main city.

This would create a severe disadvantage for the AI over the human players, in that the AI would be unable to gian new mana nodes for conquest.

I suggest either decreasing the AI chance to pillage mana nodes, or perhaps making it so that an improved node that is pillaged during wartime by the enemy does revert to unimproved mana, or at least has a high chance to?

It's not exactly realistic, but our goal is to limit the players micromanaging their mana to manipulate the wonders and whatnot, and we shouldn't penalize the AI in our solution.

---at present, you seem to have the goal of making controlling multiple mana rescources important, and i was brainstorm a way to get multiple casts out of a spell caster-
-for every single type of mana rescource you control.
1 unit of that mana spawns for each of that mana you control.

-that mana can be used on a spellcaster anywhere so that he can cast 1 free spell of that type per turn(he can still cast another spell normally)

-for example, i control 2 fire nodes and their mana in my capitol.
then i can use one of them on my fire 2 body 1 mage to allow him to cast fireball, and then another spell, say, haste.

-this would give the benefit of allowing spell casters more power with access to mana and a use other than wonders for multiple mana nodes

-it would not allow a magic unit to cast the exact same spell twice however
though arcmages would be able to cast both fireball and meteor shower



---Also, another "religous" based way to gain xp for magic users, perhaps only religious ones

-demonic bargain(double or nothing!)- 50 50 chance of losing the caster or doubling the casters xp

-festival- pay 200 gold to give 1 magic unit 20 xp(no more than once per turn), causes a celebration in a random city

-gold conversion-unit destroys the nearest gold mine(in your territory).
you lose all your gold and the unit gains the square root of the amount of gold you controlled, and gains the greedy promotion
(may switch to civs with more gold than you)

-worthy sacrifice-sacrifice a (living?)heroic unit(world unit/or hero promo/or 100+ xp), 4 times his base combat in xp is tranferred to target unit, as well as 1/4 the xp of the unit. you gain 3/4 of the sacrifices xp in gold

*my original though was that these would all be late game ways to level magic users, which it can feel so stuffy developing from basic adepts to fight a tier 4 war.

the double or nothing seems like a really bad idea, since people would just try it and only save if they "won", and potentially could give that unit unlimited xp for free

On Mana

Also with the renovations that the spell casting structure is going through, im hesitant to judge how things will work once its in place. Maybe that improvements can be made, but until we see how the resources wind up working, we cant know the results of this conjecture.
-Qes

you could make the double or nothing depend on non randomized seed(if thats possible with randomized seed) but people can just do the same thing now with units lost the wrong way, or just do it more directly with the editor...

@eerr
Kael said that for the most part one wants to minimize "chance". As players get to feeling ripped off if something even probable doesnt go their way. 99.9 anyone?

The less you risk to "chance" the more gratified the player. So unless the druel factor pay-off is "worth it" its not a concept you want to encourage.

I myself came up with random ideas for things invovling a very harsh existance as a ruler, chances for rebellion, schism, natural disaster - you name it. But these would deminish the feeling of power players get from running a civ. Frankly i could use a little less power, but I'm masochistic.
-Qes

or how about, the lich loses half the promotion he's taken (aside from lich, undead, and death 1-3)
if he loses channeling or sorcery he has to relearn it...
but this opens up the possibility of focusing on a new spell sphere...

A new resource that has a tradeoff when you use it:
Tobacco:
Base bonus-+1 gold
Building a plantation gives +2 food, +3 gold.
However, the actual tobacco resource gives +1 happy, -2 health. It also has a very high trade value, so multiple tobaccos can be traded for a protfit. So you have to make a choice--health or happiness.

Happiness on tobacco should disapear after a while...

Happiness on tobacco should disapear after a while...

Why would the happiness dissappear? Fall from Heaven isn't exactly the happiest world in the cosmos, people die every day, to random chance or the less random invasion. They might as well enjoy it as they go right? (I envision the average lifespan in this world being somewhat close to ... oh 35 - 40... tops. Call me on it if I'm wrong.)

it should be more even, +1 happiness for -1 health

but you know, theres about as much proof that tabacco kills as there is that cheese does (so cows should cause -1 health too)
always pay attention to those anti-smoking commercials, they make a point to tell you that cancer and lung disease kills more then drunk driving, murder, a variety of accidents, and a variety of simple diseases, but one thing they carefully avoid, is that lung disease and cancer are nowhere near the killers that heart disease is, and cheese and other such foods are the culprits (heavy cholesterol). but only a crazy person would try to convince you not to eat cheese and to tell you you're killing people if you serve them it. smoking can actually decrease appetite (which could stop ones intake of 'dangerous' cheese), and moderation is the key to surviving any of the worlds poisons (excessive cheese eating will kill you quicker than excessive smoking).

i dont smoke, but i dont listen to propaganda one way or the other, or id be deluding myself.

added:
if more abilities can be attach to resources, they should make 'green' tabacco that decreases production, increases war-wariness, and adds +2 happy lol

yeah well smoking is still a quicker way to kill yourself than eating cheese-much faster though drunk driving can probably do it quicker. and chewing tobacco believe it or not, is easier to go kill onself more so than smoking.

number 2 still isn't bad for a killer-but it also does reveal the biggest killer of obesity. the thing is that it's much easier for most people to never start smoking than to not eat too much if ya know what i mean.

it should be more even, +1 happiness for -1 health

but you know, theres about as much proof that tabacco kills as there is that cheese does (so cows should cause -1 health too)
always pay attention to those anti-smoking commercials, they make a point to tell you that cancer and lung disease kills more then drunk driving, murder, a variety of accidents, and a variety of simple diseases, but one thing they carefully avoid, is that lung disease and cancer are nowhere near the killers that heart disease is, and cheese and other such foods are the culprits (heavy cholesterol). but only a crazy person would try to convince you not to eat cheese and to tell you you're killing people if you serve them it. smoking can actually decrease appetite (which could stop ones intake of 'dangerous' cheese), and moderation is the key to surviving any of the worlds poisons (excessive cheese eating will kill you quicker than excessive smoking).

i dont smoke, but i dont listen to propaganda one way or the other, or id be deluding myself.

added:
if more abilities can be attach to resources, they should make 'green' tabacco that decreases production, increases war-wariness, and adds +2 happy lol


LMFAO!!!!!!:lol: :D :lol:

yeah well smoking is still a quicker way to kill yourself than eating cheese-much faster though drunk driving can probably do it quicker. and chewing tobacco believe it or not, is easier to go kill onself more so than smoking.

number 2 still isn't bad for a killer-but it also does reveal the biggest killer of obesity. the thing is that it's much easier for most people to never start smoking than to not eat too much if ya know what i mean.
easier to not smoke? i dunno, some vegetarians dont eat cheese either, and no one ever tried to peer pressure someone into eating cheese lol

and the facts are facts, more people die to heart disease than to anything tabacco related.

I'd just like to point out that obesity doesn't, in and of itself, cause any major health problems with the possible exception of adult-onset diabetes.

Obesity is a symptom of the root causes of heart disease, high cholesterol, et al.

The real danger isn't obesity itself, but poor exercise habits and poor dietary habits.

The major problem with focusing on obesity is that people who, for whatever reason, are unable to lose weight get discouraged, even though their improved diet and exercise habits are making them healthier.

working out usually means gaining weight, as working out turns fat into muscle usually (and muscle is heavier then fat, though more dense so more toned). if someone is tryin to lose weight you've got it all wrong, its better to just concern yourself with 'getting into shape' which is entirely different than weight loss (though getting into shape means more defined muscles, and muscles tend to use up fats faster turning it into energy). thats why i can't gain weight lol, im toned and have a poor appetite.
most people get screwed over if they try to lose weight because most diet things actually convince them to not workout (why workout when they're eating diet foods?!) and most diet foods are addictive and make you hungry (so you have the diet drink often for instance, then end up feeling hungry, and it happens often due to the addictiveness... so the drink is not directly to blame, but it causes factors defeating dieting purposes).
the best way is just to be active and practise exercises because they'll give you more energy, not because you expect to lose weight quickly.

Please lets not be too off topic in this thread.

More importantly--I agree that tobacco isn't even, but I reallywanted there to be a choice between happiness and health for a resource, and tobacco presented itself.

Or perhaps Opium?
Base yeild +1 gold.
Plantation (for lack of a more appropriate improvement) gives +5 gold.
Opium gives +2 happy, -2 health.

What do you think?

*calls Kael*

That sounds good to me.

ya sounds good, i just didnt like how it was more unhealthiness than happiness

If anything like that was implemented in-game, I'd be happier if it was not modelled after drugs in our world. Give it a new name. Make it magical (like reagents). Make it unique.

- Niilo

could make those affects apply to reagents.. so theyre good for happiness, but bad for health

working out usually means gaining weight, as working out turns fat into muscle usually (and muscle is heavier then fat, though more dense so more toned). if someone is tryin to lose weight you've got it all wrong, its better to just concern yourself with 'getting into shape' which is entirely different than weight loss (though getting into shape means more defined muscles, and muscles tend to use up fats faster turning it into energy). thats why i can't gain weight lol, im toned and have a poor appetite.
most people get screwed over if they try to lose weight because most diet things actually convince them to not workout (why workout when they're eating diet foods?!) and most diet foods are addictive and make you hungry (so you have the diet drink often for instance, then end up feeling hungry, and it happens often due to the addictiveness... so the drink is not directly to blame, but it causes factors defeating dieting purposes).
the best way is just to be active and practise exercises because they'll give you more energy, not because you expect to lose weight quickly.

Just as a side note, I picked up 25 lbs ( 11 - 12 kgs for others) over frosh year and decided to lose it. Just hauled myself back into shape with 10 mi runs, just to restart the metabolism. I've dropped about 30 now, so I've cut it down to 5 mi so I have more time to do other stuff (like play CIV).

:) +charlimit lol

you could make opium and give it +2 happy -3 beakers....

No, the problem is not the effect of the resource, but the name of the resource.

We could show a complete lack of creativity and call it pipeweed. ;)

but then itd have to be good for your health and happiness lol
i never saw a sick or unhappy smoking hobbit (thats the real reason bilbo lived so long)

but then itd have to be good for your health and happiness lol
i never saw a sick or unhappy smoking hobbit (thats the real reason bilbo lived so long)

That and possession of the ONE ring. After he lost that he aged rapidly.
-Qes

That and possession of the ONE ring. After he lost that he aged rapidly.
-Qes
I think Sureshot was making a joke...

ya lol, i know more of tolkien then you ever will!!! EVER!!! lmao (though, note: bilbo felt "spread thin like butter over too much bread" while he still had the ring, and you dont hear of him aging until he leaves his habitat, whos to say he wasn't just going into pipeweed withdrawl?!?!)

but in general hobbits lived to ripe old ages, bilbos 111th birthday was considered fairly old, but not unheard of, and a 20-40 year old hobbit was near the equivalent of a teenager.

so, they lived longer, they were a big exporter of pipeweed, they were a happy people, and liked to laugh.

so, they lived longer, they were a big exporter of pipeweed, they were a happy people, and liked to laugh.

I'll bet my lucky silver sporks that they were a "very" happy people

after much pondering about how to make forts used by the AI and many ideas from others, i found a simple fix that ive tested that works out nicely.

Make Sentry Towers connectable with Fort improvements. Then simply make a Fort on a Sentry tower yield +1 :hammers: and +1 :commerce: and the AI will build them and will protect them. I'd recommend also giving some bonus for having one hooked up, like +1/2 xp for scouts built, or a free sentry promotion for scouts built.

How about water mana? I mean, mana that spawns in ocean/coast, and can be improved by arcane barges, etc.

ya lol, i know more of tolkien then you ever will!!! EVER!!! lmao (though, note: bilbo felt "spread thin like butter over too much bread" while he still had the ring, and you dont hear of him aging until he leaves his habitat, whos to say he wasn't just going into pipeweed withdrawl?!?!)

but in general hobbits lived to ripe old ages, bilbos 111th birthday was considered fairly old, but not unheard of, and a 20-40 year old hobbit was near the equivalent of a teenager.

so, they lived longer, they were a big exporter of pipeweed, they were a happy people, and liked to laugh.

Ha, Id like to see your knowledge put up against that of my Fiancee's. She knows more than anyone should have a right to know about JRRT and the Lord of the Rings. Truly mindboggeling. Plus, if you do know more, i get to tease her, if you knew less, Id tease you. I see this as win-win.
-Qes

Hmm... how about a Dungeon Entrance resource? It can be explored by heroes and recon types, and it provides (randomly) either a fat gold bonus, a new technology, or a piece of equipment (when equipment is implemented, that is).

Unfortunately, the moment you begin exploring a Dungeon, monsters or barbs will spawn in the immediate vicinity, typically forcing your explorer to fight them before finishing his adventure.

An explored Dungeon should provide some minimal bonus... +2 Commerce, perhaps, as the cleared-out space is useful for building and working in (akin to the Ancient Temple, which I would also like to see work this way).

Ha, Id like to see your knowledge put up against that of my Fiancee's. She knows more than anyone should have a right to know about JRRT and the Lord of the Rings. Truly mindboggeling. Plus, if you do know more, i get to tease her, if you knew less, Id tease you. I see this as win-win.
-Qes
I've read everything of Tolkien I could find (not just related to LotR) and professional essays by those who know much as well. I've had friends who knew more of Tolkien than I did (and appreciated their views on the subject), but I can't say I've known anyone who's taken to heart all that he wrote as much as me.

So I can't say I'd win a trivia (I've got a poor memory), but if you find someone who does know more than me about Tolkien I'd either be impressed by their strong moral understanding or shocked by their ability to read greatness and not soak it in.

I've read everything of Tolkien I could find (not just related to LotR) and professional essays by those who know much as well. I've had friends who knew more of Tolkien than I did (and appreciated their views on the subject), but I can't say I've known anyone who's taken to heart all that he wrote as much as me.

So I can't say I'd win a trivia (I've got a poor memory), but if you find someone who does know more than me about Tolkien I'd either be impressed by their strong moral understanding or shocked by their ability to read greatness and not soak it in.

Well, i cannot say just how FAR she's read, but its more than anyone I know. Shes read tons of Essays, and is a JRRT uberfan. The Lord of the Rings is of course her favorite work, but she exalts all his goodies. In general she loves books, she reads...everything. She consumes books like cookie monster consumed cookies (past tense, because now he preaches moderation).

Shes able to read and NOT soak in, but with the torch she carries for the author, I wouldnt say that he's of this catagory. I'm a C.S. Lewis man myself (If were sticking with their circle of people). The recent films nearly made me cry for their lack of vision and complexity.

Still, she would want me to say that "she doesnt know it all", but clearly I've a hard time finding an example of what she wouldnt know.
-Qes

EDIT: Fixed "Exalts" as found by Sureshot. (My posts need changelogs now)

exhaults.. thats like exult, exalt, and exhaust all in one :D

she exhausts all his works (i.e. reads them all til there's nothing left to read)
she exalts all his works (i.e. praises it often)
she exults all his works (i.e. experiences great joy in his works)

heh

exhaults.. thats like exult, exalt, and exhaust all in one :D

she exhausts all his works (i.e. reads them all til there's nothing left to read)
she exalts all his works (i.e. praises it often)
she exults all his works (i.e. experiences great joy in his works)

heh

So, I have failed to make it clear that I type quickly and without forethought or even the slightest bit of editing. Alas, what to do.
-Qes

i think errors hint at thoughts, so i dont consider your 'error' to be an error, so much as it displays the complex nature of the thought you had concerning her (i.e. that she does more than exalts, that she in fact, exalts, exults, and exhausts his works heh)

i think errors hint at thoughts, so i dont consider your 'error' to be an error, so much as it displays the complex nature of the thought you had concerning her (i.e. that she does more than exalts, that she in fact, exalts, exults, and exhausts his works heh)
:lol: You may be on to something. I hadn't thought about it like that, and this conclusion IS infact fairly accurate as to her reading habits. I am going to adopt this line of thinking for others' errors and see what i come up with. Truly entertaining.
-Qes

its why i rarely ever edit my writings or poetry, i figure my errors were subconscious and add to the flow

its why i rarely ever edit my writings or poetry, i figure my errors were subconscious and add to the flow

I was going to tease along the lines of "Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy"-style poetry pains, but decided not to.

How often do you write poetry? Will we see any of your fine works in flavor-style texts in the game? :)

-Qes

um.. not too often and no

um.. not too often and no

Ha. I sense fear young padeawan. Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to hating. Dont be a hater.
-Qes

im amoung the better, and the better part of valour is discretion (another word you've errored up previously!)

Bah, at least ive the courage to err with out the regard for others' sense of grammar and good english. When's the last time you espoused poetry online without the concern for the thoughts and feelings of others? Where is your callousity? (Oh yeah, thats a beauty).
-Qes

heh, ive errored (which is an error if im not mistaken, it should be erred) and don't really worry about it. as i've said, errors are usually subconsciously intentional and have meaning, but also i dont believe in a hard definition of language, as the only restriction on language i require is meaning.

Fair enough.

So is it possible to create different qualities to resources?
Let us take the lowly axeman.

He needs copper (bronze). This makes sense. But if one had iron, the axes would be superior, less breakable, and thefore perhaps the axeman would have more stamina than his counterpart the copper wielding axeman. And what of steel? I notice that there is no steel in FfH. Which, truly is just a strengthen iron, but still, could not this lovly phase of existance be noted? Or are we already noting it and not truly considernig iron to be seperate?

Finally, Mithril, a lovly material, but surly mithralian units should be lighter and more mobile than their iron counterparts?

Finally, i think it'd be neat (very late game) to introduce Adamantium. Perhaps ONLY workable by magic forges or other forces. Adamantium, once accessed would be the next veritable Iron.

Now, the only issue I have, is that our lowly axeman requires but one of these metals to exist, but the axeman with the best metal is no different from that of the worst. Is it possible to code a difference? Since everything deals with "very large scale" design, i understand that micro differences wont show up. The units themselves must represent the advance.

We dont want to alter % wise the strengths of units (in one type) for the variances for their resource choice, but perhaps we could do something simpler.

It IS programable to increase production speeds with resources. Why not simply increase the speeds of units according to the resource available?

Let us pretend (becuase i dont know the specifics) that an axeman takes 1000 hammers to build. Thats a nice round number.

Having copper is a must. So having copper would allow the builidng of a 1000 costing Axeman. Perhaps having better quality materials allows for the more rapid production of these units? Iron would make it 10% cheaper to build. Really this represents not the easy of the metalurgy, but the "less" people you have to equip to reach the same str level.

Mithril should do this for faster units (as its supposed to be a very light weight material). Any cavalry or recon units that require iron/copper would benefit from mithril (10%) faster production. Adamantium would provide the same benefit for Iron units.

In this T2-4 melee/heavy cavlary units would benefit from copper then iron then adamantium (not mithril persay)
T2-4 Archery/Light Cavalry/recon units would benefit from copper then iron then mithril.

Any unit that required X material, would receieve production bonuses from the next level of material. Iron requring units would be built 10% faster with mithril or adamantium (depending on the line). Again, this doesnt represent speed of production, but instead the superiority of contruction, meaning you need less "troops" to equal the same "Strength".

This sound cool?
-Qes

thatd prolly be a good way of doing it, they already have "double production speed with copper" for things like Form of the Titan, so it shouldnt be too hard

thatd prolly be a good way of doing it, they already have "double production speed with copper" for things like Form of the Titan, so it shouldnt be too hard

Exactly. And the only units to benefit would be units lower on the tier structure.

A Copper requiring unit would benefit from iron and benefit from mithril/adamantium Thus potentially providing a boost for very cheap units.

A Iron requiring unit would only get a production boost from mithril/adamantium

And a Mithril/Adamantium requiring unit would never get a production boost.

In this there is a DIRECT advantage to owning superior materials, even if one does not possess the technology (or ability) to produce specific material-requiring units.

And seperating Mithril from Adamantium could prove very useful for creating further differences between the recon/cav line of units and the melee units.

Archers should require nothing, but Bowman and Crossbowman should require at least copper or iron.

Also, the introduction of heavier cavalry units (Knights) or (armored cav) would be a good idea, and could benefit from adamantium, making that metal particular to a specific style of play.

Mithril conversely would benefit the mobile tactician.
-Qes

i wouldnt mind seeing promotions given to new units based on the metals you have available too tho.

then if silver was introduced and you had it, then all your units could gain a "silver weapons" promo that gave them +50% versus undead, vampires, and werewolves.

i wouldnt mind seeing promotions given to new units based on the metals you have available too tho.

then if silver was introduced and you had it, then all your units could gain a "silver weapons" promo that gave them +50% versus undead, vampires, and werewolves.

The only problem with silver (my RL favorite metal), is that it is realatively common compared to gold. Considering how easy it is to get a single resource of gold, it strikes me that were silver to be as common or more so, then the whole of the world would likely be reicieving these "Silverized" promotions. At that point silvered weapons would be mundane and common place.

How would you introduce silver, as a common luxury material, that would in very rare and specific moments provide bonuses to SOME very lucky units?
-Qes

EDIT: Perhaps a Wonder that needs silver? Like a magic silversmith?
EDIT2: Another option would be to make gold roughly 40% of its current commonality (liklihood of appearing) and silver 50% of gold's current comonality. (90% total because of the nature of luxuries providing happiness, and now with the potential of 2 happiness instead of 1)

i dont think silver should be more common than gold, and in general it can be hard to find any 1 specific resource.

i dont think silver should be more common than gold, and in general it can be hard to find any 1 specific resource.

Unless the FfH world is generally very dissimilar to normal fantasy, silver is more common and the smaller brother of gold.

Remember rarity = value.

If silver is rare and Gold is common, then your effecitively just switching their words. What they "are" doesnt matter, only their relation to themselves, and to other materials.

If the gold market itself throughout the world was cut in half, and then divided up between gold and silver (with silver being more common) that might solve the issue.
-Qes

i mean in civ resources don't seem to be any more common than one another

i mean in civ resources don't seem to be any more common than one another

Are you kidding? Mithril and Reagents are increadibly rare. There are many games where i never have reagents. For that matter Insence is fairly uncommon. I dont always have that in my boarders.

I often pan out to look at the "wider world" view, and select the little "highlight resources button" I have been surprized by just how many resources there ARNT.

I once searched and found 3 reagents in a completely explored world in which there were 6 civilizations. That game there were only 2 Mithril. Now, perhaps the odds have changed since that version of the game, but generally there are some resources that are very rare. This can be because of their rarity variable, OR because the type of terrain they require to appear in might itself be very rare. Regardless, Finding cows and Horses wine is generally pretty easy. Finding specific materials like mithril can/is very hard. Hell one game there wasnt a single ounce of copper on my continant (shared with 3 others). It was all on another smaller continant with 1 civ! Everyone had to deal with that civ until iron came along if they wanted copper.

Personally i love that sort of thing.
-Qes

ive had maps where theres no corn, or no rice. ive had games where i cant find a pig for the life of me. games where theres no pearls, or no copper anywhere near, , or maps without any sentry towers.. so as i said, i don't think any one resource is more or less common, its just that certain resources are alone in their class and as such are more needed, so they seem more rare.

never do i specifically need rice, so i never notice the games where there is no rice because corn and several other resources do the same job.. but when copper is needed, theres nothing else at the time that will do, and when you need gems for your rune priests, they seem to have become rare as well... all are as common as each other from what ive seen.

Hmm... I've never had a problem with reagents... they've always been within about 10 squares of my starting point. I don't always get them, because there are other people out there, too... but they're there, and I know who to kill to get them.

That being said, in my current game, there is no copper on the continent as far as I have explored (pretty damn far), and none of the AI have copper-using units. There are a couple deposits on small frozen islands near the north pole (which I grabbed), but that's about it. I actually got Iron first (I used a GE to rush Mines of Gal-Dur).

Another resource idea... the Arena.

It should look sorts like a colliseum... while your units wait on it, they get the "Training" promotion, as they battle with the creatures that inhabit the arena. The Training promotion gives -20% healing, but +1 XP per turn (to a maximum of 20-ish)