Welcome to the FfH forum. This is the home of the Fall from Heaven 2 beta. Feel free to hang out, post any ideas, recommendations or comments about the mod.

The design team and I spend a lot of time here, hours each week. You could argue that the time we spend reading and posting might be better spent actually working on the mod. What can't be argued is that FfH has been shaped dramatically by the community. This is, and always has been, run as an internet project where everyones ideas are considered and discussed. Im sure many wish we were more open, responded to more posts or included more ideas, but we try our best.

There is an old story about Sir Francis Galton (father of modern eugenics and cousin of charles darwin). Galton was an elitist in that he thought that the public was basically incapable of making intelligent decisions. But he was at a fair filled with common folk and noticed a game going on to guess the weight of an ox. A few of the people had some knowledge about how much an ox of that size would wiegh, but most had no idea. And the guesses varied widely. At the end of the day Galton gathered the just less than 800 guesses that were made during the day and averaged them out. Altogether they were closer to the true weight of the ox than any individual guess, whats more the average answer was only 1lb off of the true weight of the ox.

This experiement is carried out in college classrooms all over with jars of jelly beans, and the results are the same. The public is amazing good at making informed specific decisions. Better than any individual member, even the knowledgable ones. That logic has served us well on the FfH team and even though we may not react to individual recommendations ofr change, we do listen closely to the trends and try to make changes to drive close and closer to that optimal gameplay that we are all trying to hit.

Lastly, I would like to thank the design team for their amazing work. So many of FfH's best features weren't imagined, designed or implemented by me. A lot of work has come from the entire team, who have proven to be the best in their respective areas.

- Kael

02/15/2006 - Letter to the Design Team

[tab]Welcome to the Fall from Heaven 2 design team. The purpose of this forum is to share and discuss the next version of the Mod. You will find threads on each of the major feature areas, many ideas will branch into multiple features but try to keep posts as specific to the thread as possible.

[tab]The plan is that the first post of each thread is the targeted design, items in that post that are prceeded by a "+" have already been implemented. The 2nd post of each thread is reserved for ideas that are under consideration. I will try to pull ideas from the threads up into that post to help keep things organized, and so we don't lose ideas.

Design Guidelines:

1.[tab]Fall from Heaven is a Dark Fantasy mod. Meaning even the good guys aren't always that good. Blood and gothic imagery should be prevalent. Traditional "princess fairy" aspects of the fantasy world will not be included, the world is to violent for them to survive.

2.[tab]Erebus is a world at war, not over race or civilization, but over ideologies. That war is represented in many ways, but the core differences between Good (sacrifice of the one for the many) and Evil (sacrifice of the many for the one) and between Law (order at the expense of freedom) and Chaos (freedom at the expense of order) are central themes.

3.[tab]There is no need to be complete, patterns are generally uncreative and often detract from the strategic decisions. It is much easier to balance units/civilizations/relgions etc by making them have similiar abilities but we rob the world of its flavor by doing that. Each object in the game needs its own flavor, and even if it means we can only make a quarter of the objects we would be able to if we copied our ideas, I think its worth it. There is a balance here, obviously not everything can be unique, but we shouldn't strive to copy a mechanic or idea just because it would be easy to do so.

4.[tab]We are looking for the ideas that will make people want to play the mod. The kinds of things they will miss when they go back to the normal game. There are tons of stuff we could do, with the group we have here getting ideas isn't a problem. The challenge is deciding which ones will excite players and then doing those ideas really well.

5.[tab]More is worse in a strategy game. Every new object has a cost, not just in what it takes to create, test and manage, but the player has to keep track of it as well. In general we should only add items because they offer a significant improvement to some aspect of the game, and not just to have, more units, more resources, etc.

6.[tab]Please don't be dissapointed if your ideas aren't included. Try not to be confused when I disagree with an idea and then decide to include it a few weeks later, sometimes I just have to chew on an idea for a while before I come to see its value. And sometimes I don't think an idea is right for the mod, even if it is a brillant idea. I didn't think the mod needed new civs in phase 1 until Haarbal showed them to me and I was impressed by how much better they made it. I didn't think religious specific cities would be worth the work until Chalid showed it to me and I was absolutly amazed by it. I can't promise I will accept everything, but I will consider everything. I know you guys put a lot of work into providing feedback and ideas, don't ever think that that work isn't appreciated.

05/18/2006- Letter to the Public

[tab]Welcome to the Fall from Heaven 2 forum! Please allow me to take your coat and help yourself to some of the high class hours-devours, I highly recommend the beanie weenies.

[tab]Mingle and make yourself at home. Be sure to play the mod and let us know what you think. We are always open to new ideas and a lot of what ended up in FfH1 and contributed to FfH2 came from suggestions recommended by the community.

- Kael

ps. please stay out of the pool, Chalid put his pet Kraken in there. The Kraken has a fondness for girly drinks and early 80's sitcoms. So please don't leave any drink with an tiny umbrella or Gary Coleman out on the patio unsupervised.

The forum should be public now. :)

First Non member Post Whoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
Sorry I just got overexcited

First Non member Post Whoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
Sorry I just got overexcited

Eeeeeee!!!! They are here. Everyone look busy!

Busy? I plan on hiding under my desk!

The forum should be public now. :)

And here I was thinking to myself; "How on earth can I see this forum? I'm not even a developement team member...". That cleared it up.

Busy? I plan on hiding under my desk!

Expecting a riot when they find out our finely tuned development process is actually just us sitting around making fun of each other?

Just want to give you guys the tumbs up :thumbsup:
Keep up the good work and make this mod even more 'fantastic' then the first one!

No use in having the forum when the beta isn't out yet.
Yet here I am, posting. Ha!
<Pokes Woodelf> <Pokes Kael> Ooh, you're real! And I always thought you were just a complicated AI let loose on the net.
Keep up the good work, guys :)

Cheers

No use in having the forum when the beta isn't out yet.
Yet here I am, posting. Ha!
<Pokes Woodelf> <Pokes Kael> Ooh, you're real! And I always thought you were just a complicated AI let loose on the net.
Keep up the good work, guys :)

Cheers

Actually Im hoping it gives folks a little chance to read about the mod before they start playing (kinda like checking out the manual on the drive home from the gaming store). But yeah, I don't expect much feedback yet.

I always want my wife to drive home after picking up a game so I can do just that. :)

In this case you can print out these threads at work (or school) and read them on the commute home.

In this case you can print out these threads at work (or school) and read them on the commute home.
Provided you live in Mexico City and work in Vancouver...

I suspect that this is going to turn into the introduction thread, so I'd better jump on in.
Hi, I'm here to help iron out some of the bugs in what promises to be a very interesting mod... alright, I admit it. I just want to play it. *grin*
~p

And here I was thinking to myself; "How on earth can I see this forum? I'm not even a developement team member...". That cleared it up.


:lol: was wondering the exact same thing, had i become part of the elite team :mischief:

Need to rustle up enough time to actually play this thing, but keep up the good work guys!

You might find you want to keed the development threads and stuff non-public though; apart from anything else it gets messy this way :)

EDIT: Of course, you could have already thought of that and I wouldn't know. Hmmm.

My head hurts.

What is the Fall from Heaven mod? :confused:

Will it be like the MTDG? :thumbsup:

Also, will it be civ3 or civ4? :scan:

I was too confused when I saw this new forum...:hmm:

its cIV, i know that much..

otherwise, WOTCHA guys.. looking good- i'll get my oar in soon :)

What is the Fall from Heaven mod? :confused:

Will it be like the MTDG? :thumbsup:

Also, will it be civ3 or civ4? :scan:

I was too confused when I saw this new forum...:hmm:

Its a Fantasy mod for Civ 4. More details here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=171398

A mod that has it's own section. Not even Civ3 DyP/RaR or Warhammer had that. Kael, you are truly honored.

A mod that has it's own section. Not even Civ3 DyP/RaR or Warhammer had that. Kael, you are truly honored.

I agree, its a result of both Thunderfall's generosity (he has really helped in unseen ways at multiple stages of this mod) and the amazing fan support we have been lucky enough to recieve.

**** mate, this mod makes the whole civ game worth its money. Halfway to the rubbishbin I found out about your mod (FFH1) and its captivated me ever since.

Please please continue your work with the greatest haste. I'm a lurker of the first category, but for this mod I go out of my way to show my appreciation.

I don't really care if this is posted at the right place or not, I just hope the people who work for this mod read it.

**** mate, this mod makes the whole civ game worth its money. Halfway to the rubbishbin I found out about your mod (FFH1) and its captivated me ever since.

Please please continue your work with the greatest haste. I'm a lurker of the first category, but for this mod I go out of my way to show my appreciation.

I don't really care if this is posted at the right place or not, I just hope the people who work for this mod read it.

Thanks. We are really making the game we want to play and have been delighted to see that so many others are enjoying it too.

Thanks. We are really making the game we want to play and have been delighted to see that so many others are enjoying it too.

Are you kidding?
Firaxis should employ people like you for making a fantastic mod like this.


... besides you managed to keep the deadline for the public release of the beta, which is rather rare nowadays...

RESPECT

if i had to choose between buying vanilla civ4 and buying your civ4, i would definitely take yours :bounce:

Thank you very much for your support.

By the way, what will be FfH's status regarding the civ expansion due in a couple months I think? Finish Version 2, then make the next version for warlords or whatever it's called? I doubt it'd be compatible back and forth.

By the way, what will be FfH's status regarding the civ expansion due in a couple months I think? Finish Version 2, then make the next version for warlords or whatever it's called? I doubt it'd be compatible back and forth.

I dont know. Ideally I would like players with and without Warlords to both be able to play FfH. But I don't know if that is possible or not. We will ahve to wait and see.

I dont know. Ideally I would like players with and without Warlords to both be able to play FfH. But I don't know if that is possible or not. We will ahve to wait and see.

Simply make a second copy of your Firaxis folder. Upgrade one to Warlords and leave one Vanilla. We had to do that when playtesting the patches for FfH anyway.

Or Nikis did you mean will Kael et al be working on versions for both vanilla and the xpak?

Maybe Light will be all vanilla and fire/shdow/ice will be warlords. It depends of course how much is changed that is not in the SDK/phython

Simply make a second copy of your Firaxis folder. Upgrade one to Warlords and leave one Vanilla. We had to do that when playtesting the patches for FfH anyway.

Are we allowed to admit that now or is it still a banned topic of conversation?

Are we allowed to admit that now or is it still a banned topic of conversation?

I can delete if need be. I never knew it was taboo. :confused:

Yeah you can talk about whatever, we don't have to keep silent about the patch stuff we were going through now that 1.61 and the SDK is out.

I am here because I cannot sleep for this mod has eaten my soul. It is a warm and fuzzy feeling, one bereft of pain or weariness. I must continue to click for the octopus overlords. The slave collar is stylish and brings out my slavish figure...

*addicted*

I am here because I cannot sleep for this mod has eaten my soul. It is a warm and fuzzy feeling, one bereft of pain or weariness. I must continue to click for the octopus overlords. The slave collar is stylish and brings out my slavish figure...

*addicted*
Now you never NEED to go anywhere again. Kael in the spirit of welcome I think this lost soul deserves a church sign : http://www.churchsigngenerator.com/ and try not to forget what you have learned....cuz you never know there might be a quiz later(snicker)......besides you are among friends......I can't remember what an off switch does much less what it looks like! Or was that what it looks like much less what it does.........anyway I'm off to my next.

Kael,

I never took time to read this. That's done. On your first post, Design Guidlines #2, i can read that Erebus is a world at war about ideologies. You have to chose between Good and Evil, and Law or Chaos. Explain to me how i can be Good (sacrifice of the one for the many) and Chaos ( freedom at the expense of order) ... OMI, it's the best way of life. (as too much law usually becomes evil). ???

The Frog.

I forgot this:

I'm here because this mod is the best of the best fantasy one i have played since a middle earth scenario for Civ III. That's all....the best of the best, yes Sir... THANKS !!!

The Frog.

Kael,

I never took time to read this. That's done. On your first post, Design Guidlines #2, i can read that Erebus is a world at war about ideologies. You have to chose between Good and Evil, and Law or Chaos. Explain to me how i can be Good (sacrifice of the one for the many) and Chaos ( freedom at the expense of order) ... OMI, it's the best way of life. (as too much law usually becomes evil). ???

The Frog.

Those are flavor elements more than functional ones. But you could say that obeying a good religions, not practicing slavery, not sacrificing your workers for research and keeping your compassion civic set high are all ways to be "good".

Chaos could be represented by not building courthouses or using other methods to control your population and heavy emphasis on bards and other culture effects. But thats less defined.

I am here because Fall From Heaven and its Sequal are the only way I desire to play my favorite turn based game.........I even use it to help me understand things for RPG Referee work and Campaign Design........yet all my own work........must stew.........this mod is the best mod I have ever seen for any game and it's ablity to be unrivalled except by succencion of itself in serial ie....other Fall From Heaven Mods are my interest now.......I am conciously and subconciously invested.

I agree. I REFUSE to play normal Civ anymore, after playing this mod! What you have done so far Kael, is beyond words in increasing the funfactor of this engine!

deleted: woke up on the wrong side of the bed, sorry. must have got me about the flag thing.

Join the Campaign and post this
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=171398 on his threads:D

Join the Campaign and post this
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=171398 on his threads:D


deleted<><>must have got me about the flag thing.

Basically I love this Mod and Hope everyone else does too!

Be nice guys, we are all just modders doing what we do for fun. The more mods the better.

Kael's right and I hope he knows I was only kidding cuz if not ........sorry meant no offense....

....modding is cool.......and problems can be a real pain in the backside what modders need most of all is people to understand their problems and have advice on assistance.......meaning they know something about the art or play suggestions in the very least.......not heckling........which was never the intention.......invite him along and I was serious about the post....the inspiration of one leads to the enlightenment and inspiration of many....
.
...and by the way many of my posts are particuliary goofy that doesn't mean they don't have value because most of the posts I don't make had answers from other peoples posts already so anytime someone says something strange or seemingly offbeat think well at least it isn't H.GrenadeFrenzy this time....You never know when a post will stir something up in a good way and have just what you need........goofy posts have a way of fitting in as cushions or even cogs later for some bizarre reason.....can anyone else support this statement...........if not that's ok just add it to my list.:D

This is a direct quote from "that other forum" when i stated that i did not like the American Empire with a 13 Star Blue Flag.

QUOTE: so what?
That was Firaxis' decision.

Sometimes you Americans believe everything's yours. QUOTE<>

And you wonder why people get tee'd off?

This is a direct quote from "that other forum" when i stated that i did not like the American Empire with a 13 Star Blue Flag.

QUOTE: so what?
That was Firaxis' decision.

Sometimes you Americans believe everything's yours. QUOTE<>

And you wonder why people get tee'd off?
You see how you are feeling, that is what Kael was trying to avoid that kills modders quick that feeling and now it has happened to you let me say this.......don't let it get you, man! There are more than one way to deal with this. Protocal says that guy should probrably get a warning.........talking about your nation in the forum that way is a type of slur.....and probrably against the forum/site rules.

Thats why i left here two years ago, and just recently came back early this year. Infact the only reason i came back was this MOD, FfH, i thought it was the best out there and it has the "fun" factor back in the game. oh well thats why they call this America, got to love it, and i do.

I think that if you want to criticize the makers of the other mod, go do it in their forum. Talking nasty about people behind their backs is bad manners.

Plus it really doesn't belong in the Fall from Heaven forum anyway.

Changed my scenario's completely around, if you have ideas suggestions let me know, thats why i just changed the look of my thread around drastically.

Off-Topic, Just added a "FUN" scenario to my scenario thread, called Land of Dragons II, i played it and it was great fun, welllllll for me that is, LOL.

sorry about that

Was just going thru some pics and thought this would be neat in FfH2?

Just kidding about the last one, LOL:crazyeye:

@Strategyonly
That female looks like Valla from SG-1. NOT that I'm complaining.
-Qes

OFF-TOPIC< but hey,been a slow day. QES: Yeah, but i like Valla better, shes HUMAN,:lol:, i think?? And MN, ROCKS!! Infact shes on tonight.

OFF-TOPIC< but hey,been a slow day. QES: Yeah, but i like Valla better, shes HUMAN,:lol:, i think?? And MN, ROCKS!! Infact shes on tonight.

Continuing offtopicness: Yes, Minnesota is the awesome, as is <Looks to see if finacee is around> Claudia Black.

On topicness: While these development phases are a brilliant way of releasing playable data, that will only grow (and therefor compound) the druel factors..I'm wondering what kind of drastic changes will occur in Fire, shadow and Ice? I mean .14 is playable, .15 is going to seem nearly polished. Honestly, I'm shivering with a bit of anticipation as to what fire, shadow and ICE will add. Considering their "outside" normal gameplay, im wondering if its going to be WHOLEY different, and add a very different feel from civ proper. Even FfH proper. Is there a run-down of what fire,shadow, and ice will mean for the FfH feel and playstyle?
-Qes

Here's a link to the old (pre public release) feature list for the phases. Judge for yourself.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=161468

Here's a link to the old (pre public release) feature list for the phases. Judge for yourself.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=161468

Very good, thank you my dear sir. Mayhaps it needs updating though? Seems to me that some of that is already in or scheduled for a different phase (Ancient forests are already aplenty). Thank you for the link.
-Qes

Continuing offtopicness: Yes, Minnesota is the awesome, as is <Looks to see if finacee is around> Claudia Black.

On topicness: While these development phases are a brilliant way of releasing playable data, that will only grow (and therefor compound) the druel factors..I'm wondering what kind of drastic changes will occur in Fire, shadow and Ice? I mean .14 is playable, .15 is going to seem nearly polished. Honestly, I'm shivering with a bit of anticipation as to what fire, shadow and ICE will add. Considering their "outside" normal gameplay, im wondering if its going to be WHOLEY different, and add a very different feel from civ proper. Even FfH proper. Is there a run-down of what fire,shadow, and ice will mean for the FfH feel and playstyle?
-Qes

Yeah, until the detailed designs are written they dont exist. We dont know the specifics or even how the things will be implemented. In general the following is speced for each phase:

"Fire": Hell, the Armageddon counter, The Infernal civ, the Mercurian civ, more focused on the end game and armageddon spells, the war script.

"Shadow": Quests, equipment, wilderness (monster areas that have to be conquered before the players culture can spread into them). The svartalfar civ and the Sidar civ.

"Ice": The FfH scenerios. The Illians civ.

Before the questions start, we don't have details about these things except for ideas bouncing around in your minds. But needless to say the FfH2 team is in no danger of running out of ideas for quite a while, and even though we are very pleased with how the mod is playing so far its only one small part of the total vision.

Found this site, that i think would go great with FfH2: I really like the Nimbic.

http://www.warlordrpg.com/previews/races.html

Just look at the left side of the page under PREVIEWS and go from there.

Just an FYI, this is a place to hang out and have fun and I really enjoy all the activity here. But, I don't want to much off-topic stuff either. Everything that is going on now is fine but if we begin to get to many off topic posts I'll probably have them removed and clean things up a bit.

Don't worry about it for now, but in the future please try to make sure threads you create are to the benifit of people coming here to learn about FfH.

Why are you here?
Because i love tbs, civ4 and fantasy :p

Just posted three more scenario's for current copy of FfH2 in the file database system. http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=cat&id=60

Just posted three more scenario's for current copy of FfH2 in the file database system. http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=cat&id=60
Cool :) I'm now working on another scenario :p It's almost finished, just need to balance a bit, hunt down the bugs & finito :crazyeye:

WOW, love those new "individual" sounds on units, now that makes it even more fun, whichever team person did that, GREAT job, and keep up the good work!!

WOW, love those new "individual" sounds on units, now that makes it even more fun, whichever team person did that, GREAT job, and keep up the good work!!

Which units?

Heh, the new dwarven select sounds amuse me.

If you haven't tried out the new Warhammer Fantasy Battles mod then I highly recommend you download and try it out. You can get it here:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=182258

The WHFB team did a great job on it and it is awesome to see the fantasy genre so well represented in Civ4.

If you haven't tried out the new Warhammer Fantasy Battles mod then I highly recommend you download and try it out. You can get it here:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=182258

The WHFB team did a great job on it and it is awesome to see the fantasy genre so well represented in Civ4.

And their will be more on the way!!:p

Because I want to discuss and improve upon he best mod for Civ4!

wow... ive been gone for a week and now you have version 15i out :lol:

Edited out.

In response to the title of the thread:

Because I love this mod! Having a high fantasy mod got me and two friends playing, since we were kinda iffy about vanilla. Heck, this mod even made me make an account on these forums!

Because this is my home...and I have been away too long to ever be trapped anywhere but here!

Why? WHY? WHYYY? Because.

Because I only play FFH in Civ IV (which is 99% of my spare time, the 1% left is used to shoot rebels playing under Palpatine's legions).

I want to try the Warhammer mod but I always keep playing FFH.

I know you guys have already been told this several (hundreds) times, but...

YOU'VE DONE A SUPERB MOD

I'm still a CivIV player (but not vanilla) because of you.

because I'm in love with Kael...er.
look at post #75, that should sum it up for me too.

I have loved the civilization series for the majority of my life, and I think this mod in particular is amazing. However, I can't help but get frustrated with both Civ IV vanilla and to variable degrees it's modifications because of what I feel is underdeveloped AI. I am here to talk about it, and I chose this forum because I think Fall from Heaven II is brilliant in both concept and implementation and suffers only from this basic weakness of CIV IV.

If anyone can help, I have to believe it is Kael, et al.

That being said, I get frustrated most specifically because I feel that the advantages given to the AI at higher difficulty levels to make the game challenging is an inadequate substitution from a truly skilled AI. I can only imagine how difficult it must be to design a competent, non-cheating AI in a game as complex as CIV IV. However, I have seen at least one game (Galactic Civilizations) that seemed to succeed quite admirably in this regard. To a certain degree this has always been a problem of the civilization series, but it seems even worse to me in CIV IV.

The ultimate problem is that playing against this sort of unintelligent AI is simply not much fun. I wonder if the single player AI was regarded as less important in this most recent installment with it's emphasis on multiplayer play. Unfortunately for me, while the addition of online play certainly presents an opportunity to play against truly skilled opponents I nevertheless simply do not have the time to sit down and play a long game with a human opponent. Thus, I am stuck either playing a largely unsatisfying game with a "cheating" AI or not playing at all. I don't like either of those options...

Please understand that I mean no one any disrespect by my comments. I am not a programmer and I very much admire the work of everyone involved in CIV IV and its modifications, especially Fall from Heaven II. I am just curious if anyone else feels strongly about this and if anything can be done to fix the situation.

My dream is to one day get my ass kicked by an AI that had no unfair advantages. Is there any hope for me?!!!

Peace,
Dr. Epictetus

I have loved the civilization series for the majority of my life, and I think this mod in particular is amazing. However, I can't help but get frustrated with both Civ IV vanilla and to variable degrees it's modifications because of what I feel is underdeveloped AI. I am here to talk about it, and I chose this forum because I think Fall from Heaven II is brilliant in both concept and implementation and suffers only from this basic weakness of CIV IV.

If anyone can help, I have to believe it is Kael, et al.

That being said, I get frustrated most specifically because I feel that the advantages given to the AI at higher difficulty levels to make the game challenging is an inadequate substitution from a truly skilled AI. I can only imagine how difficult it must be to design a competent, non-cheating AI in a game as complex as CIV IV. However, I have seen at least one game (Galactic Civilizations) that seemed to succeed quite admirably in this regard. To a certain degree this has always been a problem of the civilization series, but it seems even worse to me in CIV IV.

The ultimate problem is that playing against this sort of unintelligent AI is simply not much fun. I wonder if the single player AI was regarded as less important in this most recent installment with it's emphasis on multiplayer play. Unfortunately for me, while the addition of online play certainly presents an opportunity to play against truly skilled opponents I nevertheless simply do not have the time to sit down and play a long game with a human opponent. Thus, I am stuck either playing a largely unsatisfying game with a "cheating" AI or not playing at all. I don't like either of those options...

Please understand that I mean no one any disrespect by my comments. I am not a programmer and I very much admire the work of everyone involved in CIV IV and its modifications, especially Fall from Heaven II. I am just curious if anyone else feels strongly about this and if anything can be done to fix the situation.

My dream is to one day get my ass kicked by an AI that had no unfair advantages. Is there any hope for me?!!!

Peace,
Dr. Epictetus

You input is definitly appreciated and you are correct in all counts. Civ4 has an additional AI handicap that most games don't have to deal with, the AI has to be independant of the specifics.

The reason for this is that Civ4 was designed from the ground up to be moddable. Because of that the AI uses various weighting algorithyms to decide what to do (for example when it should be investing its time attacking or turtling up for defence). Those algorithyms are independant of the actual units, after all they cant assume that the vanilla units are in use.

Most can can code to their specific units and therefor program the AI to act as a human would (a human learns the uses of each unit and tries to use each in the most benifical means allowed). A human player can start playing FfH2 and learn to use all the new units, but Firaxis of course couldn't code to those units. So we trade better specific AI for the amazing ability to be able to drop in a new unit and have the AI make decent (but not amazing) use of it.

Outside of that we do need some new AI functions for the FfH2 stuff. I have been surprised with how well we are able to get it to do some stuff, but their is definilty room for improvement.

Okay I finally got round to seeing what all the fuss was about and started a game on this mod. I am extremely impressed! You've managed the highly unlikely task of capturing a true fantasy spirit, the kind of thing that can only be managed by people who truly love the genre.

I'm still in the exploration phase (the joy of marathon speed) and, what with the giant spiders lurking in dark forests eating my scouts, intrepid adventurers (I'm the grigori) going on goblin-slaying expeditions and strange haunted monuments from which skeletons periodically emerge to harass my countryside, it really does feel like civ has been fused with Baldur's Gate - it's a world of isolated pockets of civilization trying to stand firm in a mysterious and dangerous wilderness.

I'm truly inspired by how much work has gone into this. Maybe some day I'll be able to make a contribution myself.

Okay I finally got round to seeing what all the fuss was about and started a game on this mod. I am extremely impressed! You've managed the highly unlikely task of capturing a true fantasy spirit, the kind of thing that can only be managed by people who truly love the genre.

I'm still in the exploration phase (the joy of marathon speed) and, what with the giant spiders lurking in dark forests eating my scouts, intrepid adventurers (I'm the grigori) going on goblin-slaying expeditions and strange haunted monuments from which skeletons periodically emerge to harass my countryside, it really does feel like civ has been fused with Baldur's Gate - it's a world of isolated pockets of civilization trying to stand firm in a mysterious and dangerous wilderness.

I'm truly inspired by how much work has gone into this. Maybe some day I'll be able to make a contribution myself.

i am happy you re enjoying the Mod, all i can say using Kaels words is,... we try to create a game we really want to play...
and using my words: it will be worth to stay with us and check every new version that is released for all the new details which make this mod so deep and lovely! ;)

Hey! I've played the mod for a while and have lurked the civfanatics forums, but I, until now, have not joined or posted!

Just want you to know that my first post is HERE, because this is the best mod I've seen so far!!!

Oh, and a quick question: do the races matter in "light", I mean are dwarves friendlier towards each other than they are to, say, orcs? or elves?

(If not I think it would be a nice addition)

Heh, completely offtopic but I only registered at CivFanatics because of this mod, and I have 0 posts outside of the FfH forum...

Hey! I've played the mod for a while and have lurked the civfanatics forums, but I, until now, have not joined or posted!

Just want you to know that my first post is HERE, because this is the best mod I've seen so far!!!

Oh, and a quick question: do the races matter in "light", I mean are dwarves friendlier towards each other than they are to, say, orcs? or elves?

(If not I think it would be a nice addition)

Not currently. The only civs that would qualify for this are the luchuirp and the khazad (both dwarves). The two elven nations hate each other, and everyone else is only the only example of that race or human (the vast majority).

So we havent considered the bonus since it would only apply to 2 civs.

So we havent considered the bonus since it would only apply to 2 civs.But there are some leaders that have their own bonuses, the gender ones for example. Dwarves could use a "You are kin" +2, I think.

Hmm, a possibility of a unique diplomatic power unfolds...

Dwarves: +2, you are kin
Elves: -2, you are a traitor to your race
Human: +1, you aren't a freak of a race/ -1, your race scares me

lol

Just wanted to stop in and add to the lauds that seem to be placed in this thread. Civ 4 was off my hard drive and collecting dust when an rpg.net thread sent me this way. Since then, FfH has become a small obsession and completely revitalized my interest in the game. I've seen a lot of mod communities, but the excitement and progress here are really difficult to match. The work done to this point is amazing and it's stunning to see 6 patches already hit in such a short span of time. Well done - I'm really looking forward to seeing what comes next and to commenting along the way.

First thank you for the Mod, it's hard now to return and play the normal civ4 or warlords for that matter.
Although I recently started to play Fall from heaven and I have a few posts but i have been keeping up with the forums and reading whenever I can.
I do have a small suggestion, which is breaking down the civilizations alignment. I read that some of the things this mod is based on is D&D. So i though making civilizations more Unique in defining their alignment. For example the Grigori Would be suited as True Neutral, While the Bannor could be Lawful Good and so on.
Something else I noticed is that the Dimensional mana is under used. More spells would be nice i think.
Well that's all for now, And If I could help with anything, Well Most what I do is writing, Photo Editing or translation Please ask, it's the least I can Do. :D

Hey! I am on the civfanatics only because of the FFH2 mod. This mod is the best fantasy game I have ever played on the strategic level, and it has this vanilla civ flavor as well. I do not play vanilla civ anymore since I have found out about this mod.

I cant wait until you guys will finish the last phase.

First thank you for the Mod, it's hard now to return and play the normal civ4 or warlords for that matter.
Although I recently started to play Fall from heaven and I have a few posts but i have been keeping up with the forums and reading whenever I can.
I do have a small suggestion, which is breaking down the civilizations alignment. I read that some of the things this mod is based on is D&D. So i though making civilizations more Unique in defining their alignment. For example the Grigori Would be suited as True Neutral, While the Bannor could be Lawful Good and so on.
Something else I noticed is that the Dimensional mana is under used. More spells would be nice i think.
Well that's all for now, And If I could help with anything, Well Most what I do is writing, Photo Editing or translation Please ask, it's the least I can Do. :D

lawful and such is being built into civ personalities and isn't defined as generic "lawful" or "chaotic" persay, but rather as the way the civs act

I'm here because this mod is better than the original game. The only version of Civ I have more hours played than this mod is Test of Time... and well, that's because I've owned ToT longer. :D.

the answer to the question "why am i here?" is completely impossible to answer because there is no way you know why you are at one location instead of another without tracing back to the meaning of life witch will make you ponder so long you'll probobly die.

the answer to the question "why am i here?" is completely impossible to answer because there is no way you know why you are at one location instead of another without tracing back to the meaning of life witch will make you ponder so long you'll probobly die.

Dont ever become a cartographer, I don't want to have to get existential to find I-70.

Dont ever become a cartographer, I don't want to have to get existential to find I-70.

:lol: .

Heh, completely offtopic but I only registered at CivFanatics because of this mod, and I have 0 posts outside of the FfH forum...

Hehehe, I see we're in the same boat. In fact I created my account to ask Kael a question back in the first FFH versions. :p :lol: But yes, the community is so great, the game is so amazing and fun, it just compels you to share stories and post and put in input. So much of FFH is great and just awesome. :goodjob: It's quite the masterpiece. We don't have "flaming n00bs" yet, and there's always regulars ready to answer questions, even dumb ones like mine >.> In very nice welcoming manners.

It's really FFH and it's beautiful world, The creators who are a great team and great people, and the beautiful community, that just makes it all a tear jerking masterpiece. :king:

First the dark magic setting gathered my interest, then I lurked more into this forum and discovered what a huge amount of storytelling and excellent gameplay-development this mod combines. Kael and the team, you have produced a piece of art. I love it! Thank you so much! I even decided to read an H.P. Lovecraft book (don't know which to begin with. if anyone has a good advice?) to learn more about cthuhlu and the octopus overlords...

Because Hot Seat Marathon with 3 nations is more than anyone can take.....Ask me cuz, I know first hand and if you are gonna do it. Use all on 1st so you start as allies otherwise the other guys hurt you badly and often. :crazyeye: But seriously after round 800 you should be on top depending on the difficulty but that is where the strategy change comes in.:lol: It is the first turn based game that has taken monthes of work to develop..ONE game! Wow! I really like this Mod to this Game and believe everyone should be convinced to play it in the future! :lol::D :) I'm not joking about the fact that it should be played by everyone........It just makes me laugh!
the answer to the question "why am i here?" is completely impossible to answer because there is no way you know why you are at one location instead of another without tracing back to the meaning of life witch will make you ponder so long you'll probobly die.
The exestentialist
Dont ever become a cartographer, I don't want to have to get existential to find I-70.Vs......Transendentalism?;) How are we gonna figure out what I-70 thinks about its location? Ask the Dwarves one of them will know.

Dont ever become a cartographer, I don't want to have to get existential to find I-70.

perhaps topopology...
mabye he could improve on the klein bottle?

Why am I here? To connect with other participants in this grand experiment. It must be shared in order to be fully appreciated. I want to be able to say: "Can you believe how great this is?" and to then have others say: "No, I just can't. The Ffh2 mod is just too good to be believed."

So, can you peeps believe how great the Ffh mod is?

No, I just can't. The Ffh2 mod is just too good to be believed.

;)

Ah, thanks man! :)

Why am I here? - Because this changes a predictable world history game into a less predictable adventure/role playing game. Since I play with a random civ most times and it takes me ages to finish a game, by the time I have played a few you guys have a new version which changes so many things it feels new again!

Idea, although I imagine someone probably proposed it. (soz been out of loops since August 2k6!)

Terrain improvements with forts. How about being able to build a wall improvement. I don't know if it's possible but these walls have 'hp' like a unit so enemies have to 'break through', using artillery type units etc. Normal passage can be going through forts which act like gateposts for these big walls.

Also, before I get the answer in the faq thread, have certain wonders currently come through the Armageddon Counter. I think it feels more natural that Wrath is 'Unleashed' after a series of events throughout the game rather than from an abstract building.

Also, before I get the answer in the faq thread, have certain wonders currently come through the Armageddon Counter. I think it feels more natural that Wrath is 'Unleashed' after a series of events throughout the game rather than from an abstract building.

You just got answered in the other thread you were asking about Wrath Unleashed. :) (Yes, the wonder is removed and replaced by the armageddon counter)

You just got answered in the other thread you were asking about Wrath Unleashed. :) (Yes, the wonder is removed and replaced by the armageddon counter)

Love and joy. I just put on this updated FFH today. So many new stuff to get my head around! The giants from the Nilhorn pact aren't oversized warrior models anymore! Woo!

I've played a few versions of FfH2. Now that .22 has arrived I think it is long past time that I commended the creators for a job extremely well done! This is an awesome mod! The uniqueness of the civs and religions is great! I don't think I could ever grow bored of this game because I dont think I will ever be able to explore all the range of options that exists. It is so cool to be able to play the game with such variety. So many combinations, so little time. And the art is very cool. Great job all!!

Spam deleted. PC-1.

I've played a few versions of FfH2. Now that .22 has arrived I think it is long past time that I commended the creators for a job extremely well done! This is an awesome mod! The uniqueness of the civs and religions is great! I don't think I could ever grow bored of this game because I dont think I will ever be able to explore all the range of options that exists. It is so cool to be able to play the game with such variety. So many combinations, so little time. And the art is very cool. Great job all!!
Yes, I completely agree. I've played many games for a year now, and there are still a bunch of civs I haven't even tried out yet! Such an awesome game.

Just want to say that this mod is amazing, it brings me back to some of the Civ II scenarios I used to love so much. I hadn't played Civ IV for a while when I discovered this mod and it breathed new life into the game for me. Thanks a lot for sucking me back in.:goodjob:

Congrats on being in the official expansion.

Why am I here ?
Well...
I saw the light, so I came in...
I felt the warmth, so I stayed...
:D

This morning I experienced one of those Civ timewarps I haven't had in a long, long time. I sit down at the computer intending to play a few turns of FfH. I decide to take out a neighboring civ to clear off my continent. I defeat said civ and very happy with myself decide it's a good time to save, quit, and go take a shower and have breakfast. My jaw then drops as I realize I've been at it for over an hour and a half. Luckily I wake up extra early in the morning in case something like this should happen. :) Thanks to the developers of this wonderful mod for making something like this possible! You've outdone any other mod I've ever seen for a game. In fact, except for a few similarities between FfH and Civ4 I'd say you've made an entirely new and far more interesting game.

I'm here to find out how this world works. Up till now, I've just been picking buildings and techs that sound like they might be useful and sorta fit the way my kingdom is developing. Sometimes I build things having no idea what they really do, just that they lead to other neat-sounding things. I realize that's probably not the best strategy if I ever want to progress past Prince.

It's a good way to start, though. ;)

I'm here to find out how this world works. Up till now, I've just been picking buildings and techs that sound like they might be useful and sorta fit the way my kingdom is developing. Sometimes I build things having no idea what they really do, just that they lead to other neat-sounding things. I realize that's probably not the best strategy if I ever want to progress past Prince.

Hey, look! It's Charley, avatar and everything! :waves: Have fun with FfH! There's the wiki to help and lot of threads on strategy and stuff around here.

(tLD here :D)

I have loved the civilization series for the majority of my life, and I think this mod in particular is amazing. However, I can't help but get frustrated with both Civ IV vanilla and to variable degrees it's modifications because of what I feel is underdeveloped AI. I am here to talk about it, and I chose this forum because I think Fall from Heaven II is brilliant in both concept and implementation and suffers only from this basic weakness of CIV IV.

That being said, I get frustrated most specifically because I feel that the advantages given to the AI at higher difficulty levels to make the game challenging is an inadequate substitution from a truly skilled AI. I can only imagine how difficult it must be to design a competent, non-cheating AI in a game as complex as CIV IV. However, I have seen at least one game (Galactic Civilizations) that seemed to succeed quite admirably in this regard. To a certain degree this has always been a problem of the civilization series, but it seems even worse to me in CIV IV.
Your point of view is interesting. Several times I had to find out that the AI cheats. So it seems to be far more easier to program and programming strategy is indeed very complex. But first you need a total control of both players and the whole game and then you must cut some information for the AI player e.g. hidden units - not easy. Why not play chess?
Have you ever read Stefan Zweig's Chess Novel? In this view the AI has to become more or less schizophrenic. Or the programmers more fair.

I've played a few versions of FfH2. Now that .22 has arrived I think it is long past time that I commended the creators for a job extremely well done! This is an awesome mod! The uniqueness of the civs and religions is great! I don't think I could ever grow bored of this game because I dont think I will ever be able to explore all the range of options that exists. It is so cool to be able to play the game with such variety. So many combinations, so little time. And the art is very cool. Great job all!!
I only can fully agree with you. I will never play Civ IV again as well as Alpha Centauri, the scheme is very much the same, it's rather simple etc. But the point is more this what an old saying in German means: The better is the enemy of the good.

For me the flair that FfH undoubtly has in an unique way makes the difference. And this flair comes only from passion and love to details by the design team. Because there is no commercial pressure to be bought by as many as possible, they can concentrate to the details. FfH is a taylor-made product for a passionate small community. And this is great!
If you are a member of this community ...

Why am I here? I checked up on Civfanatics as I had not done since Conquests. I checked the file db and found this at the top of the list for 'downloads', descending order of course. After reading a few details about spells and scripted events, I knew it was a must, and I have yet to be disappointed. This is the sole reason I bought Civ4, and I haven't even touched vanilla or any other stand-alone mod since. I don't think I will anytime soon. :eek:

Why am I here you ask, well I've been away for several months and decided to get off my lazy butt and come back :lol: and it seems while I was away you all have been busy, hehe means I gotta check out the new updates to this mod XD anyways it's good to be back and nice to see things improving, also I'd like to congratulate the mod team of FfH for them having the honor of making a mod for the latest expansion to Civ 4

You guys do such a good job of providing feedback, helping playtest, give ideas and really smooth out the edges of FfH that it makes me wonder why Firaxis doesn't involve more community members. Or at least post directly on the forums more often.

But then I went and read the BtS forum. :confused: It really makes me appreciate the community we have built up here in the FfH forum. Those people in the BtS forum are crazy!

But then I went and read the BtS forum. :confused: It really makes me appreciate the community we have built up here in the FfH forum. Those people in the BtS forum are crazy!

Maybey whe should start a thread there, and rant how upset you are, that your civs didn't make it, as regular civs in the game instead of the HRE. And how much better they are then Poland. ;) :p

Keep it up. I'm addicted again.:D

Do you have something against Poland Greeneyedzombie? :>

And how much better they are then Poland.
I am very curious from which country you are and have you ever visited Poland. If not that's not the nicest of things you can say about this country.

I have nothing against poland. I just noticed how upset they seem to be they are not in the game. It was more meant as a joke, I appologize if I offended anyone.
And family of my brother is polish, so I defanitly need to go there one day.

I am very curious from which country you are and have you ever visited Poland. If not that's not the nicest of things you can say about this country.

dwarves and elves are defanitly better then any country currently existing.;)

No problem then ;).

You guys do such a good job of providing feedback, helping playtest, give ideas and really smooth out the edges of FfH that it makes me wonder why Firaxis doesn't involve more community members. Or at least post directly on the forums more often.

But then I went and read the BtS forum. :confused: It really makes me appreciate the community we have built up here in the FfH forum. Those people in the BtS forum are crazy!


Heh, I should start my thread about 'why Croatia isn't in, we had strong kingdom in middle ages... blah'
I'm just surprised how much people can rant about why one civ is in and one isn't (some even want to kick Korea out because they don't think it's suitable enough!) when that isn't really what makes game better or worse. As long as I find my suitable trait combo and satisfying UU I don't care what civ is in or what isn't. They all play the same in vanilla civ anyway ;)
And they can argue themselves to blood about why there isn't swastika Nazi flag as German flag in WW2 scenario, why is HRE in game, why is Boudica a leader, why there is no Poland (BTW I never been there but I met some really cool Poles last summer, from Breslau/Wroclaw)
There are obvious reasons why swastika flag isn't in. Yet they can't accept developers decision and want historical accuracy. And if you say 'its only a game' they say 'lets have Alien leaders etc. it's just a game' I sometimes wonder are they so asocial and complaining in real life as well :(

I feel left out... I need something to complain about, too.

"Hey, why does America only get one civilization? We're worth, like, three other civs, so they ought to have America 1800, America 1900, and America 2000 as three seperate, distinct civilizations with two leaders and a unique unit each!"

You guys do such a good job of providing feedback, helping playtest, give ideas and really smooth out the edges of FfH
Being a newcomer who intends to bring himself more in as kind of a thank you for such a wonderful game I would appreciate to get some information how and where such a help is useful.

E.g. the Malakim history with an elf as leader sounds not very even, there are very few desert specific pros (e.g. advantage of founding a Malakim city inside a desert), very few female heros or units (eg an amazone as archer for the elven or a siren at the coast etc. would be nice, both for girls and boys) etc. Makes it sense do develop such ideas and how to implement these professionally? Just writing in the wiki? I prefer to agree upon first and then act in a common sense as part of team. Where is such an information and how to communicate it best?

"Hey, why does America only get one civilization? We're worth, like, three other civs, so they ought to have America 1800, America 1900, and America 2000 as three seperate, distinct civilizations with two leaders and a unique unit each!"
I am worried to find such posts here in a FfH forum. They do not fit for several reasons. Regarding history over 4000 years there are so many interesting and important civs lasting for many centuries. So let's forget nationalism. Finally. I cannot stand sayings such as "We're worth". :mad: Who takes the right for it??

I know many people in Europe and Asia asking if there is even any. They think so seriously. ;) But be sure not all of them. Civilization can be defined in different ways.:rolleyes: And this cannot be a theme here for us (FfH). See below.

And not using Symbols with a tragic or political background is important in a worldwide game. Nobody shall be e.g. offended. Taking Stalin as leader in vanilla Civ is not amusing and is definitely not OK, regarding a >30 million proven death toll in Russia. It is to near to our historical time.

The ancient China, Sumer, Mongolia, Egypt, the Hetiths, Persia, the many German tribes fighting and finally overrunning the Romans for several centuries, Romans against Karthago, the Arabs, the Red Indians (savanne, Inca, Actecs), the Malays, the medieval Japan, Osmans (Turcs), the Scots, the fight between the French and English in North America, the Hundred Year War in France, Europa against Asia (Huns, Magyars, Mongols, Arabs, Turcs) lasted for >1500 years... And whole Africa? The Eskimos? The Aborigines? Etc. etc. Only look at Europe: >2000 years of struggle with so many total different civs. Portugal was mighty for some centuries, Sweden too, Poland for some time, the Hanse locally and economically, the Magyars until they joined the Austrian empire (1272 - 1918), the development of France ... So many reigns were historically very important and lasted for many centuries. So many scenarios for a game such as Civ.

Let's look globally and in historical dimensions. In our time we all should have overcome this nasty nationalism. It already has let to several 100 millions of deaths. Being proud about one own's nation is OK, but needs tolerance for all others as well. It also includes knowledge and respect of the others. And definitely has no place in such a wonderful game such as FfH.

And fantasy civs make much more fun. Therefore let's discuss and develop FfH together, even if it is not easy to make it noticeable better as it already is.

It was a joke Gabriel. Read what was said above.

It was a joke Gabriel. Read what was said above.Nice from you and thank you for the hint, I was really worried where I am. But congratulation, it seems to be a good one.

Let me put another notch in my belt... :cowboy:

:D

Chand post is a great addition to mine above. ;)

I'm here because the wiki page is down. The Clan has just declared war on me, but I have a slew of nasty ships to keep them off my many isles. I don't have enough mana nodes to build all the towers; the big continent where everyone else is huddling together is teeming with troops so i don't want to land there. I'm not generating any great prophets which I *think* is what's needed to build the Altars. So, um, could someone explain how religious influence is measured? I'm occupying the holy city of everyone else's state religion, but the influence on F8 is only 37%.

Fall from Heaven: Age of Ice (now includes Beyond the Sword)Hehe, indeed! This mod is a dream come through! Finally getting rid of the realism bug... :)

Im not 100% sure how Religious influence is measured but if your religion is in every city in the world you got 100% influence if NO OTHER religion is present. If all religions are present in every city (except the cult) it would have 20% influence.

IIRC, Religious influence depends on the size of the cities that have the various religions. So it doesn't matter that you have all the holy cities, it matters if as many large cities as possible have only the religion of your choice in them. You could try razing the enemy cities that don't have your religion, or using some Inquisitors, or adopt Theocracy to stop any further spread of non-state religions, or build Purge of the Unfaithful.

Ah, thank you for the pointers. I've farmed and upgraded quite a few werewolves, so I think I may be able to withstand the initial storm after a landing now.

Transylvania.

Transylvania definitely deserves inclusion. Like, even more so than Rome.


:wallbash:

This is what I posted in thread, motivated by one post:

I am extremely upset at Firaxis' continued refusal to add the following important civs: Liechtenstein, Vatican City, Barbados, Scientist in Antarctica, Disputed Territory, Sealand, the Weimar Republic, the German Confederation, the Third Reich, West Germany, East Germany, the Unholy Roman Empire, Prussia, Deutschland and the Free City of Danzig.


I'm sure 3 days after BtS releases you will have dozens of mods for Poland and other civs. I personally don't see any difference whether civ I play except trait combos and UU and UB. I don't care what languages units will speak when I click on them or about flag. We could have every culture ever exiting in the world in and game wouldn't be any better or worse, it is game mechanics that make game better or worse.

In addition to sennomulo great list of missing civs I would add:

Liburni (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liburni)
Tannu Tuva (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tannu_Tuva)
Free City of Dubrovnik/Republic of Ragusa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Ragusa)
Croatia!!!
N.W.A. (Led by Ice Cube - Aggressive/Charismatic)

Let me put another notch in my belt... :cowboy:You can laugh about me. I already did it.:lol:

Why am I here? To learn how to enjoy this most excellent mod. The intimate attention the design team pays to the users is unlike any game I've ever encountered. It's like going to a really good minor league baseball game which, if you've been to one you know, is superior to the "big leagues" in one key way... proximity to the players. This proximity let's you enjoy the game that much more and marvel at its' intricacies.
Thanks for that.

I can hardly wait to play FfH on BtS...................

Loved the Age of Ice Mod, but played too careless and got blown away by the difficulty...yikes


LOVE the Mod, keep up the excellent work!

I am relatively new to modding and have been playing Civ and FfH for a while.(Good Job Guys) but i was wondering if there is any way i can help. I dont know Python or art design but am willing to learn.

I am relatively new to modding and have been playing Civ and FfH for a while.(Good Job Guys) but i was wondering if there is any way i can help. I dont know Python or art design but am willing to learn.

Just play and enjoy. Spread the mod to your friedns and hang out here to give us feedback on your ideas and answer others questions that pop up.

If you really want to get into modding we don't have much need for more team help, but Im trying to make the BtS version as mossable as possible so people are free to offer their own FfH scenarios and mini-mods for others to play.

Ok. Ill continue to play.

Note to self: Remember to get BtS

I recently bought Civ4 and was looking for a fun mod to add some variety to the Civ experience. I found FFH2 and it was love at first sight of the Hell terrain.

I've played several games of the "Epic" mod as well as playing the Age of Ice scenario a couple times. I'm looking forward to the BTS conversion being completed.

:goodjob:

Hello all ! Hi from Paris, France !


Why I'm here ?
Just because when i'm playing on my comp, I'm almost only playing FFH for about a year now.
I'm absolutely amazed by all this great work and the overall nice feeling I get from the community when I come here to read posts.

But the real reason of this first post is because I had a little question about the Luonnotar unit :confused: (I asked in FAQ, dunno if it's ok though...)

Just a note to the FfH2 team: I like FfH2 better than Civ4/BtS. Bought BtS, started working my way through the scenarios/mods, with a few 'vanilla' BtS games thrown in. MEGO. I must confess that the BtS/FfH:AoI [let's see how many initials I can work in there] mod/scenario still didn't interest me as much as FfH2.

So...keep polishing/extending/improving FfH2. I believe it has replaced SMAC/AX as my all-time favorite 4X game. Here are some of the things I like about it (particularly in contrast to vanilla Civ4):

-- Fast promotion and a larger promotion tree. Promotion never did that much for me in Civ4, but now it's a critical part of the game for me. Lots of fun, especially when I'm dealing with hero units (such as the Baron).

-- The different characteristics of the civilization. Yeah, Civ4 has been trying to move towards that with civ-specific units, buildings, etc -- but your civs often require dramatically different strategies. It really boosts the repeat playability of FfH2; this is probably your greatest strength. Again, you're the first 4X game I've played since SMAC where the different AI civs actually feel like different civs, not just interchangeable images.

-- Religions. This was (IMHO) the best innovation of Civ4, but as with promotions, you've taken it up a few notches. In vanilla Civ4, it really doesn't matter which religion I pick; in FfH2, I think carefully about which to go for.

-- The good/neutral/evil alignment and the resulting impact on inter-civ politics. Keeps things interesting and makes 'role playing' the civ a bit more fun.

-- Magic. Took me a while to get into it, and I still tend to treat it as an afterthought/support for my armies. I need to play some games where I really focus on magic to see what more I can do with it.

-- All the little fiddly bits. Orthus. The red dragon. Forest fires. Towers (I love the towers during early game exploration). I hope you graft in some of the stuff from Age of Ice (I like the blizzards). Consider stealing some stuff from SMAC, such as volcanos erupting and/or the ability to raise/lower land.

Complaints/criticisms? Not many. I find the giant spiders really annoying, but that probably means they're doing their job. Fix the bugs, but I'm sure you're doing that. The endgame can get tedious, though that's true of vanilla Civ4 and a lot of 4Xs anyway.

Suggestions? More fiddly bits and unexpected events. Here's one: late in the game, if no one has taken Acheron out yet, have him leave his city and start randomly (or even purposefully) attacking non-barbarian cities - sort of a super Orthus.

Consider introducing a 'Samson in the temple' victory condition -- you build a wonder that invokes a hyper-raging barbarians condition, with them randomly appearing on visible squares inside of cultural boundaries (but outside of the city grid), and continuing to ramp up in number and/or ferocity (giant spiders, giants, dragons). You win if you're the last civ surviving. The condition can be canceled if all the other civs each builds a special counter-wonder -- at which point, the hyper-barbarians vanish from everyone else's territory and are left only attacking you, and you can't stop them spawning in your territory. So if everyone else can (a) work together and (b) survive long enough to build the counter-wonders, you're dead, and they can go on to seek another victory condition. High risk, high reward.

Anyway, keep up the great work. ..fritz..

Suggestions? More fiddly bits and unexpected events. Here's one: late in the game, if no one has taken Acheron out yet, have him leave his city and start randomly (or even purposefully) attacking non-barbarian cities - sort of a super Orthus.
That sounds soo 'Glaurung on the way to Nargothrond.' I like it :)

hi team!
I played the AoI scenario from BTS (not even finished it) and thought it would be great to see teh rest of FfH.
Downloaded it, and played it instead of BtS I had just bought :eek:.
I already played :
- Sheaim>hyborem : strange game where I had to attack the cities I had built earlier in the game (shows I didn't read much about the strats before playing, I should not have put the sheaim into such a dominant position and building them so many heroes and units. Kind of fun killing your own carefully built up empire. Ended up in a domination win, hard one.)
- kuriorates (chieftain level because I just didn't understand how to make it work with those guys, ended up being a rather easy cultural victory finally)
- Amurites (easy domination, using conjurers to storm through my noble enemies)
- Bannor (easy tower of mastery win, prince level isn't quite tough enough)
- Elohim (quite peaceful Altar of the Luonnotar victory, nothing beats cottage spamming + religious discipline, monarch level)
- Luchuirp (tried emperor, and found it too hard for me, went back to monarch for another altar victory)
I'm currently playing as the Ljosalfar towards a religious victory. good thing that the inquisitor works into friendly land and not only in your land.:goodjob:

I only have one suggestion, regarding the Hall of fame :
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/74263/FfH_HoF.JPG

In the current way, you can't see the date of victory. I suggest removing the "age of rebirth" text, to insure the date can be read.

It's only a small issue though, and you can guess by the number of game played that I like the mod a lot. It's miles away better than the vanilla game:D .

A little rebalancing may be in order to remove the "buy yourself a tower of mastery or an altar" move, but it's no big deal.

^Nice trophy room.

Why am i here? FfH2 > Vanilla

Hey I built a simple (and not too difficult) FfH 2 map. Where should I post it? I've really enjoyed this mod a lot. I still play vanilla 4, but enjoy FfH 2 a great deal.

I've played every version of Civ and played precursors like Strategic Conquest back when. . .

Hey I built a simple (and not too difficult) FfH 2 map. Where should I post it? I've really enjoyed this mod a lot. I still play vanilla 4, but enjoy FfH 2 a great deal.

I've played every version of Civ and played precursors like Strategic Conquest back when. . .

The scenario forum is probably the best place. Welcome to Civfanatics and FfH!

but be sure to link it here, we'll all want to try it out.

I am here to warmly congratulate the entire team.

Not only for the art work, but also the texts (stories - ex: the one about the Giants in the pact of xxx), the little funny things (ex.: the "consumption" icon ... AH! the Monty Python and the Meaning of the life...), the redesign of the tec tree, the whole idea ...and offering (for free) a total different experience.

I have discovered this mode only 3 weeks ago, when trying Age of Ice, and after finishing all mods (but Final Frontier: it seems to be a big mod that I keep for later), I think this one is the closest from all what I like and liked, from Diablo (1) to Baldu'rs, to Heroes, to Warlord Battlecry, warcraft ...

The 49 years old uncle I am has just sent an email from Mozambique (where I live/work) to his 2 nephews in France, who are comp/game wizards, for giving the strong advise (and links) to try this mod out.
My wife is also trying with me. She finds Civ4 too formal and too "real", but she is interrested in playing around with spells and religions. Good!

Here is a picture of some happy customers ...
Looking stupid and boring (as usual), with my wife and my dog with who I share the same hair/fur color!...
http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/1869/maputo2007jumjplilifd9.jpg

I've already been posting about the FFH games I've been playing, so I doubt I'm too much of a stranger around here, but I might as well introduce myself. I'm the same Blackclove who used to run the Civ II scenario league with Cam Hills, and who wrote a lot of Civ II mods -- the most famous of which was probably Dungeon, though my historical Toussaint L'Ouverture scenario (about Haiti) also garnered a lot of attention. Sadly, I haven't had any time at all to learn to mod for Civ IV, but it looks like some of you guys did a much better job than I would have anyway!!

FFH is outstanding, by the way. I'm having a blast.

I love dragons. This mod had a dragon.

Suggested tech: Dragon Worship.. allows sheaim(sp?) or Kurioates(sp?) to select cult of the dragon as a state religion? ^_^

Suggestions? More fiddly bits and unexpected events. Here's one: late in the game, if no one has taken Acheron out yet, have him leave his city and start randomly (or even purposefully) attacking non-barbarian cities - sort of a super Orthus.



Downloaded and installed 0.25k (runs under BTS) -- playing my first 0.25k game -- and Acheron leaves his barbarian city and starts advancing towards one of mine. My reaction is a mixture of "Cool!" and "Oh, crap!" as I scramble to move units in place to defend the city. Great fun! Great update overall, too. ..fritz..

I am here again to say that Fall From Heaven is the best game I have ever played.. Period! It has saved the game of BTS for me and for that alone I am thankful. I am earnest when I say that no other game has given me as much enjoyment as the FfH mod does. Thanks guys!

So, who are you when you say other things, Ernest?

Well if I wasn't being Ernest, I'd be Exaggerator.. kin to Terminator. ;~P

Always remember the importance of being Earnest...

I'm here because it's a great mod, and because the FFH universe has really sucked me in and I want more information on the back-story. Some of which I've found here, some of which I haven't; is there anywhere else I can look? This forum also provides an outlet in which to whine and complain on the rare occasions I find something I don't like :)

This is beyond a doubt the best Civ scenario ever, and I say that as someone who's been playing them nonstop ever since the old Fantastic Worlds days.

What kind of silly question is that!?

Okay, my damned brother (skallben) got me addicted and I have a bad tendency of digging my head into fantasy/sci-fi worlds I like, resulting in random bursts of brainstorming.

Keep up the awesome work on the mod!

Hello chaps,

I first tried a very early version of FFH 1, and I was at that time really hooked by this mod, and tested every religion.
Then, a day like every other, I was lazily browsing the fanatic center, then I stumbled upon FFH 2 Fire, and then my life became full of milk and honey (?), beautifull women jumped on me at every street corner (almost...), bref, I was transformed by this amazing esperience.
More seriously, before this mod, I was thinking I had got stolen by this civ 4 (the game + both espansions packs = darn lot of money for pathetic (basically the same ones that in civ2 expanson packs, but in 3D ! !) scenarios/mods), but now I must admit that a game that allows for such mods is surely full of hidden qualities, even if this awesome result is for sure more due to the (amazingly awesome) modding team, than the developper's one.
All shall fall before thee !

This mod is just amazing. So amazing I (like many others) created an account to subscribe to the FFH threads to not miss anything. Seems like the spiritual successor to Master of Magic from my childhood.

A few suggestions (I know you have a billion of them running around in the brainstorm cloud). Is there any ideas to have the guilds provide buyable promotions to heroes ala henchmen? Such as the Guild of Craftsmen selling enchanted blades or Ratcatchers Guild a scout henchmen (that scouts for the hero providing Sentry I). Also maybe a new guild like an adventurers guild (I know the Grigori already have one new name perhaps) that would spawn quests such as monster lairs that appear in the players borders.

Speaking of Master of Magic on that same train of though are there any plans to include in the next installment events attached to lairs like a rescued prisoner or hero only promotions such as nobility from MOM which provided gold every turn?

Thanks for all of the hard work.

This mod is just great.
Since discovering it, returning to the "vanilla" version of Civ IV: BTS seems like such a pedestrian experience by comparison.

Great job.

I've played many games in my life but none of them come close to fall from heaven. The game is so detailed and is constantly being updated so I can't see how anyone could resist it's greatness, even my brother who hates anything without guns, cars, and futuristic stuff in it is addicted to ffh, and can't play vanilla civ or any other mods anymore. But it is not only a great game but the community is so welcoming and helpful and interesting it just forced me to subscribe to civfanatics and in alot of cases I can get a much joy out of the forums as the game itself. I also enjoy how you allowed the mod to be easily modable so we could add our own d&d characters!

GREAT JOB!!!!!!!!!!!:goodjob:

@Scott Alexander: Any posts I find with a decent collection of backstory or resources for playing I put in my sig. If you find any that aren't there, PM me please :) Otherwise, read and enjoy. Lots to learn.

I had at least an hour to spare while running the recovery DVD on my computer, which broke and had to have the hard drive replaced. For some reason the mod's installer doesn't work on my family's home PC (I had saved it to a flash drive since we are stuck with dial-up here. It worked fine on my laptop, until I dropped it), so I can't actually play the game right now.

What error message do you get if any?

" NSIS ERROR

The installer you are trying to use is corrupted or incomplete. This could be the result of a damaged disk, a failed download or a virus.

You may want to contact the author of this installer to abain a new copy.

It may be possible to skip this chack using the /NCRC command line switch (NOT RECOMMENDED)"


After getting the OS back on my laptop, I ran accross a little trouble installing Civ IV. The Vanilla installation seems to run fine, but when you try to play it always claim you are using the wrong CD. The BtS installation aborts when it comes accross an error patching vanilla. (When I went to the read me file I found that it only works with Civ IV v1.0, 1.61, or 1.74; the version on the vanilla CD was 1.09, so I'm thinking it might work if I patch vanilla first. I still have dial-up here at home, and I'm moving back to college tomorrow so I think I'll wait a day to download the patch.)

Although I can't play the game without CIV IV working, I went ahead and installed the mod to my desktop (I had the mod, patch e, the media pack, and the BtS 3.13 patch on my flash drive) on my laptop, and it seemed to work fine.

I (Sheelba) was invited in Valledia palace, and during an intense "political debate", Valledia transformed into a very affectionnate earth elemental.8)
Had to report it somewhere.

The most optimistic and romantic post I have red today.
Thank you for it...
Long life the little orcs...

Ok, I'm breaking down and asking anyone who would know this.


I've alluded to it before in some of my other posts, but I noticed a similarity in the "national" psychology of the Bannor people and a character named Bannor in the Chronicles of Thomas Covenant, the Unbeliever. (Go read these books if you haven't already! If you have, re-read them! *nods*) Is there any intentional reference or inspiration, or is this just something that my brain latched onto?

Ok, I'm breaking down and asking anyone who would know this.

I've alluded to it before in some of my other posts, but I noticed a similarity in the "national" psychology of the Bannor people and a character named Bannor in the Chronicles of Thomas Covenant, the Unbeliever. (Go read these books if you haven't already! If you have, re-read them! *nods*) Is there any intentional reference or inspiration, or is this just something that my brain latched onto?

Thats actually exactly where the name comes from. Its been forever since I read those books, but after reading them I ran a campaign where a race of magically adept people were being attacked by a horde of magical immune orcs from another world.

The main character, whose name was Ran, was one of those sorcerors and was gifted with the ability to see spirits. That also gave him the ability to use soul gates, passages between worlds that your soul could pass through but your body could not. His soul would inhabit a different empty body in each world he entered (in one he possessed a flesh golem, in another a corpse just killed by a death spell, in another the body of a mage whose soul was traveling, etc etc). But the first world he entered was the Nexus, the point between all these worlds that the soul gates all linked to.

In the Nexus lived people who had fled from hell, which is where one of the gates lead. They were lead by Sabathiel and were called the Bannor. They could pass physically through the soul gates and were ageless, timeless and strong warriors and had taken to defending the Nexus (most specifically against demonic attacks). Additionally Sabathiel would occasionally enter hell to search for and rescue Bannor that were still trapped there, he was the only one brave enough to do so.

After hearing the players quest Sabathiel assigned one of the Bannor to travel with him as his bodyguard. That was the second player in the campaign.

Eventually through that campaign Ran was attacked and his bodyguard failed to defend him. It was a massive failure. By this point Ran was an incrediably powerful mage and his soul commisioned a high price in hell. Hyborem claimed the soul for himself but eventually traded the soul to Cerdiwen who resurrected the mage and renamed him Tebryn. She threatened to return him to his eternal torment unless he brought armageddon to the world.

I dont remember much from the Donaldson books but those Bannor were probably pretty close to his version. It wasn't until the few campaigns that the bannor took on their current form. Sabathiel became an angel of Junil. The Bannor became a human empire fallen into hell but their name and some of the qualities of there former incarnation stayed with them.

Note that consistency wasnt a big deal to me as I ran multiple campaigns. Erebus wasnt created in one burst, but evolved slowly over years. So the above isn't "canon" at all. I took a lot of stories from different camapigns and worlds and put them all together in one consistent world (along with plenty of ideas from the rest of the team) to form the Erebus we have in the mod.

I think I've seen more lore in the last 5 days from you than in all the time before that. I'd begin to think Shadow was actually complete and you were working on the Civlopedia now ;)

Doesn't matter if it isn't strictly canon for FfH, it's pretty cool to know.

I got a suggestion for the mod but not sure where to put it so I'm posting here.

I really like the animals in the game. I personally like to try and capture as many as possible, elephants, spiders, everything. But it becomes hard as they only appear in FoW.

What I suggest is that animals can pop up anywhere even in "owned land" In real life there are still wild animals in cities and countryside so why not here.

And if you're worried about getting easy exp points from them you can just make it so you don't gain exp from animals.

Like mod very much and i am also creative type, my profession is graphic designer/illustrator and i can help some to team (only 2d graphics/illustration, no 3d or programming) and well some creative brainstorming.

Thanks to all the designers and coders for this great mod ! It should be prohibited though: It's way to addictive :lol: :D ! Great job guys, I love your work. Now if the Arda Mod would come soon and in that quality I'd be really happy...

Oh, what I wouldn't give to be a player in Kael's campaigns. :) Too bad I live halfway across the globe. But thank goodness I have this awesome mod to play!

I'm here because I've been a beta-tester on several MMORPGs but I've always loved the Civilization-type games (Alpha Centauri, Colonization, Ascendancy, Heroes of Might and Magic 1-3) the most. This forum gives me a chance to play a game I love (with a mod I can't STOP playing :lol:) and also try to contribute something to the community of like-minded people.

Thank you SOOOOO much to the whole team for making this incredible thing called Fall from Heaven.

Because I want to. :)

Why?
Yesterday, I was in a small café.
Well, OO music had played rather loud and most important Very surprising.
I have panicked for a sec! “OO spread in my City! Must run!”
=)

Because I have proven that sleep is irrelevant. Friends are irrelevant (unless they play FfH). Social lives are irrelevant (except playing MP). As long as I have FfH, I can get enough sleep between turns... Must... Press... Next...:sleep:

AoI was a fun scenario, thought I'd give the whole mod a try.

AoI was a fun scenario, thought I'd give the whole mod a try.

:agree: So ... Have fun! ;)

Me too. one day I was about to start another vanilla game, then I thought: why not give a scenario a try? Everyone talks wonders about this FfH thing. I promptly started a game... and lost when I let a cult into the city.

Oh, the atmosphere! The wild difference from the game I knew! The evident care expended on all aspects! Later that night, I downloaded the whole thing.

I'm here because A) this mod is amazing, and B) it has CtD issues and a lot of content slated to come out eventually, so by posting on the forum, I'm much more likely to be made aware of any new patches or versions.

Tried playing a more regular mod yesterday and I got to say that in regular Civ IV attacking goes to crawl speed, even if you have the upper hand. There one simply NEED catapults to be able to attack or do anything realy, and one needs enough of them. :( :sad: :wallbash:

In FFH II there are mutiple ways to go on an ofensive raid, and attack goes fast, swift and fun. :D

I just had an idea for a new event:

A man claiming to have made a wonder drug he calls "win sauce" claims that it can make people one step closer to the gods.

*buy for this "win sauce" (pay 50-100 gold, unit gets "win sauce" promotion)

*I am not interested in this offer


"win sauce" promotion allows "drink win sauce" (10% chance of unit death, 10% chance of getting +1 :strength:, 40% of nothing happening, 40% chance to receive a random promotion, including bad ones)

I just had an idea for a new event:

A man claiming to have made a wonder drug he calls "win sauce" claims that it can make people one step closer to the gods.

*buy for this "win sauce" (pay 50-100 gold, unit gets "win sauce" promotion)

*I am not interested in this offer


"win sauce" promotion allows "drink win sauce" (10% chance of unit death, 10% chance of getting +1 :strength:, 40% of nothing happening, 40% chance to receive a random promotion, including bad ones)

Sometimes you people frighten me. But in a good way.

I have something like this in my DA mod mod. I created a new equipment unit called "unknown potion." It has a random chance of being any of the other potions: heal, flying, strength, confusion, blindness, poison, etc. You can either try to identify it (using a certain spell) which makes the potion type known, or you can just drink it and take your chances. :)

Oops, I should have said why I hang out in this forum.

I wanted to make a D&D dungeon crawl mod and FfH2 was hands down the best base off of which to build. The work done here is amazing, the forum participants knowledgable, and the constant flow of ideas refreshing.

On the forum? Simply because FFH2 makes CivIV:BTS the best game out there and I'd like to contribute in what ever small ways I can. :)

Because I've been coming here since Fire, and realized I should probably get around to registering.

Well, I stumbled across FFH1 a year or so ago, and really liked it. Played for a while, then got tired of civ, got a new computer, and sort of forgot about it. When I happened to look a the civ fanatics forum again a few months ago, I saw FFH2, and remembered how much I liked the first, so I got it and haven't stopped playing since.

I think this is the place for suggestion. So I have 2 suggestions.

1. Make a tutorial scenario. I think this is required for all good games, and especially required for a game with such high learning curve. More details in civipedia would also help.

2.Is it possible to make a seperate interface for war? For a strategy game, the battle doesn't really require much thinking. It will be so much fun if battle follows the system of Age of Wonders or www.tacticsarena.com

Why am I here? Well, do you mean philisopicly, or physically? And difine "here". Or do you mean the fact that I love this mod?

Because this is the best MOD I've ever played. Keep up the great work!

I have been around since the begining of shadow just never decided to join and post

I'm here to find out more about FFH.

Why?
Yesterday, I was in a small café.
Well, OO music had played rather loud and most important Very surprising.
I have panicked for a sec! “OO spread in my City! Must run!”
=)

I was in a bar/cafe and the same thing happened to me, but I think it was the Ashen Veil music, which surprised me since I thought it was made for the mod and not taken from a "real" song.

Although, in some respects, you'd think Kael would switch the Enya song for the Fellowship of Leaves to one of the 'elvish' pieces Enya sang for the LOTR's.

I'm here because I needed a break from my endless war against the damn demon lovers Sheaim.

Hmm, I just realizing the irony with my current FfH war and my alias here. At least I aim high.

I'm here because of this kick butt little scenario packaged with BtS. Could not get anywhere, left it for like 6 months. Then one day, it dawned on me my mistake. Played the hell out of it, and started looking for more. Eventually ending up here, with the full thing goin on. You guys made an awesome mod, virtually a new game itself. So now hanging around, keeping up on events. Chilling with folks got the same addiction.

If your ever in town, first round is on me. =)

I notice you don't list your town;)
But I'm glad our plan to hook people with AoI worked on you.

:D

Fixed ;) True, I had no ideal anything like FfH existed out there. AoI was an excellent plan, and now I can't go back to BtS without feeling something is missing. :cool:

Klasse Spiel!

Actually thats the frist introduction thread with an intelligent titel.. :)
Brings up a lot of questions... but anyways

I'm here to... first of all show my appreciation for your amazing mod.
I've always been a great fan of Age of Wonder (1 and 2) but since I stumbled over this mod I didnt start AoW even once, because this mod is all AoW is or better should be.

And something i noticed: Whenever I start the game with any race except elves I start in an area of the map thats completly covered with forrests and whenever I start with an elven race I start in a place with a whole lot of deserts and floodplains... is that some sort of weird feature or does the game mechanics simply hate me? :crazyeye:

I think you're just unlucky with the elves, but it is true a startpos in forest cripples a game with any other faction. The solution is to beeline bronze working, meanwhile using any square not covered in forest to put one farm (take agriculture civic) and some cottages. It should allow to mitigate your problem at prince difficulty or lower.
Remember that all those forests that cripple you before BW will become a great boon once you have BW.

Though, the starting settler has 4 moves and an immense sight radius, you can move it! :P

1. of course i focus on BW if im surrounded by woods.. (or fishin if i have a financial leader and i'm close to a coast) but thx for the tip anyways

and 2. most of the time i do move the settler... sometimes it helps.. :)...

its more psychological thing... startin the multiplayer game with my friends... hopin for a decent startin pos.. lookin at the screen and .. oh no not the woods again.. :D

It's interesting to me actually. I'm not a fantasy type person. I've never really been interested in fantasy stories, books, game, etc. When I was a teenager, I dabbled in D&D, read a few Piers Anthony books, but that's about it. I have enjoyed a good fantasy film now and again, however.

Why was I attracted to this game? Well, I have to say at first that I was turned off by the overt evil of the game (I'm not into demonic stuff, etc. even if it is fantasy story). However, I AM into stories of Good vs. Evil with the ultimate triumph of good.

I decided to download the mod, and Woah! What an amazing feat (as in: great mod!). My very first game as Cardith Lorda (did I spell that right?) was VERY fun. I conquered an evil empire on "my" island, discovered "The Order" and converted the one neutral civ on the island to "Good." All civs on the island were good and declared war on the "Evil" civs on the other continent.

Good triumphed, of course. :D . . . especially with my awesome Sphenor and other heroes.

I didn't quite understand the whole magic path with the "nodes" and other things. I've since started a couple of different games, and none of them have felt nearly as epic as my first game. I'm kind of surprised, actually.

That is the reason I decided to post here.

I thought, perhaps, I could relay to you that it would be nice if some element could be added to the game (through Python scripting or whatever) with which the sides of Good and Evil are more pronounced, insomuch as the "Good" guys are staunch allies, and the "Evil" guys finally decide to set aside a bit of their petty selfishness and gather their vast armies to defeat good.

I know you mentioned in your opening that this game is about good not always being perfectly good, etc. But I think you could make the differences somehow more pronounced. I find it very odd in a game that one of the Evil civs is attempting to befriend me, a good civ --which, in my role-playing, I never allow (I always choose "It ain't happening!").

Hmmm . . . just some observations, but I must say you truly have an amazing mod, even for someone "not into" fantasy! :goodjob:

It's interesting to me actually. I'm not a fantasy type person. I've never really been interested in fantasy stories, books, game, etc. When I was a teenager, I dabbled in D&D, read a few Piers Anthony books, but that's about it. I have enjoyed a good fantasy film now and again, however.

Why was I attracted to this game? Well, I have to say at first that I was turned off by the overt evil of the game (I'm not into demonic stuff, etc. even if it is fantasy story). However, I AM into stories of Good vs. Evil with the ultimate triumph of good.

I decided to download the mod, and Woah! What an amazing feat. My very first game as Cardith Lorda (did I spell that right?) was VERY fun. I conquered an evil empire on "my" island, discovered "The Order" and converted the one neutral civ on the island to "Good." All civs on the island were good and declared war on the "Evil" civs on the other continent.

Good triumphed, of course. :D . . . especially with my awesome Sphenor and other heroes.

I didn't quite understand the whole magic path with the "nodes" and other things. I've since started a couple of different games, and none of them have felt nearly as epic as my first game. I'm kind of surprised, actually.

That is the reason I decided to post here.

I thought, perhaps, I could relay to you that it would be nice if some element could be added to the game (through Python scripting or whatever) with which the sides of Good and Evil are more pronounced, insomuch as the "Good" guys are staunch allies, and the "Evil" guys finally decide to set aside a bit of their petty selfishness and gather their vast armies to defeat good.

I know you mentioned in your opening that this game is about good not always being perfectly good, etc. But I think you could make the differences somehow more pronounced. I find it very odd in a game that one of the Evil civs is attempting to befriend me, a good civ --which, in my role-playing, I never allow (I always choose "It ain't happening!").

Hmmm . . . just some observations, but I must say you truly have an amazing mod, even for someone "not into" fantasy! :goodjob:

Good feedback. The Armageddon Count provides the feature you are looking for. The higher it gets the bigger attitude bonus good leaders get with other good leaders, and evil leaders get with other evil leaders. Likewise the attitude penalty good leaders get with evil leaders is increased and vise versa.

We didnt want every game to fall into the classic good vs evil conflict, but we wanted to incent that sort of behavior in the AI in aggresive games. Without mandating that human players had to follow a strict path.

Good feedback. The Armageddon Count provides the feature you are looking for. The higher it gets the bigger attitude bonus good leaders get with other good leaders, and evil leaders get with other evil leaders. Likewise the attitude penalty good leaders get with evil leaders is increased and vise versa.

We didnt want every game to fall into the classic good vs evil conflict, but we wanted to incent that sort of behavior in the AI in aggresive games. Without mandating that human players had to follow a strict path.

that is quiet ironic in a way... a "good" leader can actually increase the armaggeddon counter by doing evil deads to get the other "good" leaders to form an alliance with him and unite against the evil guys... i like that :)

that is quiet ironic in a way... a "good" leader can actually increase the armaggeddon counter by doing evil deads to get the other "good" leaders to form an alliance with him and unite against the evil guys... i like that :)

When Basium arrives the AC actually goes up by 5 ;)

EDIT: Try playing with Permanent alliance on some time too, it can get REAL sick.

Good feedback. The Armageddon Count provides the feature you are looking for. The higher it gets the bigger attitude bonus good leaders get with other good leaders, and evil leaders get with other evil leaders. Likewise the attitude penalty good leaders get with evil leaders is increased and vise versa.

We didnt want every game to fall into the classic good vs evil conflict, but we wanted to incent that sort of behavior in the AI in aggresive games. Without mandating that human players had to follow a strict path.

Wow, really? Hah, that's one of the things I love about this mod. I've been playing it to death for ages, but I never knew that. :)

You'll be more likely to get that sort of game if you select your opponents and potential allies beforehand. If you turn off some of the early religions, especially neutral FoL, you'll find the world more polarized as well, and the speed of increase of the AC can be likewise adjusted with game settings.

Thanks, Kael, for the response. I was wondering what the AC was for. Thanks!

You'll be more likely to get that sort of game if you select your opponents and potential allies beforehand. If you turn off some of the early religions, especially neutral FoL, you'll find the world more polarized as well, and the speed of increase of the AC can be likewise adjusted with game settings.

You know, it's interesting you mention this. I happened to just think along this path after I made my post. I thought, I wonder if I negated all but one evil and one good religion and chose specific civs and even started with permanent alliances. Interesting . . .

In case you didn't think to check, Kael has some design notes like that in the game concepts section of the civlopedia in game that might be illuminating about various features.

In case you didn't think to check, Kael has some design notes like that in the game concepts section of the civlopedia in game that might be illuminating about various features.

Thanks for the tip. I'll have to check it. :)

i'm here for civ

Kael and Nikis,

I just wanted to let you know that I tried some suggestions and definitely got the type of game I was looking for! :crazyeye:

I eliminated all but two religions: Ashen Veil and The Order. I had 4 Good and 4 Evil players. Put the AC on double.

Yikes! What a trip. Fun game, though! I'm Bannor, and have the strongest military. The 4 horseman have already been released (I defeated one of 'em). Hyboreum (sp?) just declared war on me, and I'm off to defeat him.

Great game. Great mod. Thanks a bunch! :goodjob:

i'm here because i can't get lost.
u r all freaks, i like that, it looks this way more like i'm no freak... but i am...

pitty me.

played this mod in every direction and most of it in multiplayer...

it's indeed much fun. thanks for all that, and you're still here - i worship you're staying power, everyone of you still up to the continues work.

:goodjob::goodjob::goodjob::goodjob::goodjob::good job::goodjob::goodjob::goodjob::goodjob::goodjob:: goodjob::goodjob::goodjob::goodjob::goodjob::goodj ob::goodjob::goodjob::goodjob::goodjob::goodjob::g oodjob::goodjob::goodjob::goodjob::goodjob::goodjo b::goodjob::goodjob::goodjob::goodjob::goodjob::go odjob::goodjob::goodjob:

Why am I here?
...
That's good question ... ((:

Because this game is the most fun I have ever had while sitting in front of a computer.

I like screwing Malakim over with hell terrain. :king:

Just a random sugestion, this game would be soooooo much better with rev mod infused. Just a thought...

Just a random sugestion, this game would be soooooo much better with rev mod infused. Just a thought...

well, then you should definitely give THIS http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=294422 a try ;)

I just want to start out saying I'm here to say kudo's to the ffh team for making a new game out of civ4. The whole event systems complexity is mind boggling compared to vanilla bts and its seemingly random pile of stuff that happens on a whim for no reason.

I love the fact that every new leader I play is an entirely different experience and changes game play immensely. Each civ I play is a different civilization and its not just a new trait/uu/building like regular bts.

The one suggestion I would make for the mod to be more accessible to people is the stupid advisor tips everybody hates, just to get them some basic info on some of the changes to the game without having to dig through the civopedia and whatnot. Like on the first turn a tip on the basic differences your civ has (like the fact elves build improvements in forests). The only problem is you'd have to take out the regular ones to have people turn them on. I mean really do I need to know that I just built a warrior and thats a military unit:lol:.

I know it would have really helped my learning curve on it. Fantastic work you guys.

I'm here cause I'm bored.

Need I explain more?

I'm here cause I'm bored.

Need I explain more?


Out of curiosity, is that a reference to the amazing Minesweeper: The Movie trailer? Because it should be.

I was playing as Calibim(sorry if I spelt it wrong) and I was thinking that more flavour could be added to a vampire civ. In particular, I was thinking that units were built with food, and population was increased by sacrificing units(probably Bloodpets). I think this would better reflect a vampire run civ.

Minesweeper: The Movie

WHY ARE THESE MINES EVEN HERE?!!?

WHY ARE THESE MINES EVEN HERE?!!?

NICE.

"Don't worry, it's never the first one you try."

...

...


BOOM.


"NOOOOOOOOooooooooooo.........!!!"

"What now?"
'Now, we guess. *puts the shovel into the spot*'

-*focuses on face* Game over.-

Yes, it's really me. When I first arrived in Civilization several years ago, I had not imagined that I would be sucked into this phenomenon we call Fall from Heaven. I figured I'd just drop by every so often to pick up some tips and a couple of mods and then head back to Heroes of Might and Magic for my fantasy campaigning. So I just did a fast registration using my everyday username. But now I find myself coming here every day, reading every post and inserting my own crackpot opinions and stupid jokes all too often to think this is even a casual interest anymore. And everyone else has a cool username, so I thought it was past time to join in.

Therefore, I have prevailed on Thunderfall, our good moderator, to grant me the privilege of changing my username to my usual nom-de-web, Caradoc. (The real Caradoc was quite an interesting fellow and I encourage you to Google him and see what a pivotal role he played in shaping Western civilization.) So henceforth in all things Civilization and most especially Fall from Heaven, it is Caradoc I shall be.

My next project is to upgrade the 'chicken man' avatar and better reveal my true self. (Incidentally, the 'chicken man' is actually from Future comics version of the Lone Ranger.)

FFH is a wandorful mod,i like it.
So I come here to get the lastest news of FFH

Well, I'm here because FFH got coverage in the biggest Polish computer magazine CD-Action (half page). They wrote that it's good.

Well, usually they are wrong, worshipping some senseless FPS or RTS, but since I was bored with vanilla Civ anyway, I decided to give it a try...

And it turned out that hey were wrong, exactly as I thought. It isn't good. It is excellent.

I am here just to observe the development of one of the greatest games I've ever played. FfH is not just a mod to Civ 4, it is a game in its own right.

I stumbled across this mod when looking to see what all the fuss was. Didn't get it the first time I played. Now I'm hooked. It's like the time I first played Master of Magic a long long time ago (in a country far away as it happens :D )

What's with the music btw? It's electrifying, especially the Empyrean music. It's like gothic metal, just tamed down several factors :)

Check the readme, or probably the FAQ or main thread for all outside sources.

Hello, its my first post in FFH so I must say 'Good work on an awsome game'.

I was here to get info about the scenarios and found out about the 16th dec realase date :) cant wait...

Anyway, i was struck by an idea while playing when looking at Hunters/Rangers/BeastMasters graphic. They are teamed with a pet so i tough it would be nice if it was actually some pet got from wilderness exploration and added the same way as a commander. It could add some abbilities depending wich pet you got.

Just downloaded the mod last night (my first that worked) and I have to say, it's amazing! Great job everybody who worked on it.

My only regret is that I discovered this on finals week and I was up till two in the morning last night and intend to do the same tonight.

Your academic advisor probably wishes I wouldn't tell you there is a new version coming in a day (or less).
Glad to have you aboard, though.

Been hearing about this mod for a while, so thought it was time that I tried it out at last. Currently in the middle of downloading it, and I'll play it later tonight. ;)

Well, you do this in a difficult period. Balancing changes and AI improvements induce a great deal of bug propability after each patch. If you wish to play just for enjoyment, you should wait a week or two.

A big Thank you to the whole mod team. You have my support and enthusiasm behind your efforts on AI improvement.

Well, you do this in a difficult period. Balancing changes and AI improvements induce a great deal of bug propability after each patch. If you wish to play just for enjoyment, you should wait a week or two.
It doesn't matter, I'm still enjoying the game immensely anyway. :)

By the way, how do we know when there's a new patch released for download? The forum doesn't seem to contain any threads or posts that are very clear about this. I'm surprised it's not in the FAQ. :confused:

Kael posts in the bug thread and in the Fall From Heaven II (main thread in the mod forum somewhere) everytime a new patch is released. He also keeps the bug threads first post updated with a change log of everything fixed for the next patch.

Okay, thanks. I'll check it out, and subscribe to that thread. :)

5. More is worse in a strategy game. Every new object has a cost, not just in what it takes to create, test and manage, but the player has to keep track of it as well. In general we should only add items because they offer a significant improvement to some aspect of the game, and not just to have, more units, more resources, etc.
I'm not completely sure that this is true (more is worse).
In my humble opinion as a player - not a designer of games - I was always very excited, when I saw any game, that offered more options, more spells, more possibilities.
The counter argument to excitement is of course strategy. You have a point if you say that chess for example has lived for about 3000 years now - unchanged with only 6 different "units". Even though it's simplified for the max, and even though you can make new strategies even today 3000 years later -> in my opinion it gets boring.
Maybe I don't see the inherit strength of chess like people who play this every day, but after half an hour most often it get's like "oh please get my king" - at least for me.
What's so impressing with FFH2 is the neverending stream of possibilities. You can play as Elohim with 7 different choices religion wise (ok 2 of them make no sense, but: so what?) you can have different mages with different spell spheres every time you play - AND if you're through with it, you just can start the same procedure on another map type or with another civilization.
This is great. Because it means: choices.

Sure enough for a designer who wants to produce a stable product, that dosn't have to much uber units and kind of a logic with the research/goodie-ratio diversity also makes for unearthly long procedures of play testing.

This argument, (imho), is not so strong, because there are now thousands of players, who contribute sometime more, sometimes less on the forum, what they think about new options. Maybe the discussion about rage is a bad example - but I think it's a good example, becaue it shows, that people really care. Sure, we're not playtesters who do reports like in the industries, but regarding post 1 of this thread I think what all the addicted reported for the last 4 years was good by itself, to (further) help the team to produce the most amazing, diverse and logical computer game, ever produced.

This makes me wonder, if point 5 isn't just, well, kind of a myth, to produce thousands of generic games that really are *simple*. FFH2 offers much more options as Civ4, immense more options than Spore (meh), even more than Master of Magic which was till nowadays one of the rulers in this genre. (though in MoM there was more magic I think). This makes it strong.

this is not meant as an offense. It's only some thoughts of a gamer - not a developer, not a playtester (officially ;)), not a designer, just my thoughts about games in general and strategy games in detail.

I think Fall Further and Orbi Mod show that more is not merely worse, it's just - more. that said I'm completely happy with FFH2's complexity. There IS Fall Further and Orbi and maybe one day Magisters mod for people like me. And the "main game" shall be stable and "complete" (one day ;)). It makes it easier for new players and mod-modders. But, I think FFH2 should be the standard for the industry. Every strategy game should be compared to FFH2 regarding complexity.

And I hope one day someone with money in his pockets takes the liscence of MoM and gives it to Kael and his team to create MoM 2. :)

We ended up cutting some features because there's just no way the AI would understand it. We tried to find systems and mechanics that we thought the AI would have a reasonable chance to deal with.
It's only the question, if it is nescessary to teach the AI everything. You could argue that it's cheating by the player if it can't do the same things. But If there is a popular spell, who really enhances the feeling of the game, should it be cut, only because the AI can't use it? Why not make a spell two-sided: normal effect for the human player and another effect (like a summoned unit or something like that) for the AI. This would balance it, but increase diversity for the human. Don't think the AI cares that much about it.

I'm not completely sure that this is true (more is worse).

You raise good points. If we have a scale with incrediably complex on one end, and increidably simple on the other I dont think anyone would like either of those extremes. So its not as simple as saying it should be one way or the other. Instead we deal in the specific of the grey area between, but there is no magic point that is a perfect combination of the two. Instead there is a lot of personal preferences which controls rather you would like more or less complexity.

So understanding that it is simply about complex or not, but about how much complexity we set some rules to guide us. We tend to focus on the ruel to try to avoid complexity where ever possible because as game designers its a lot of fun to develop complex systems. So we have to curtail that instinct to some degree. It is just as valid to say that we cant over simplify to the point where the game becomes dull, we want depth, we want layers, we want the players to be constantly surprised with new things. But since the very process of game design is inherently adding complexity there is little fear of that.

So our trick is to keep all the good things we get from complexity, without suffering any of the bad things (hard learning curve, confusing game play, to many options that the player doesnt know what to do or it doesnt seem to matter what the player does, game is to hard, we introduce more bugs as features step on other features, etc). Thats where the real game design work happens, and Im pretty happy with our progress there.

It's only the question, if it is nescessary to teach the AI everything. You could argue that it's cheating by the player if it can't do the same things. But If there is a popular spell, who really enhances the feeling of the game, should it be cut, only because the AI can't use it? Why not make a spell two-sided: normal effect for the human player and another effect (like a summoned unit or something like that) for the AI. This would balance it, but increase diversity for the human. Don't think the AI cares that much about it.

This is also not a completely yes or no question. We have made this exception in some cases where it makes since. And we have cut spells, spell ideas and entire features because the AI would never understand them (or it wasnt worth the effort to teach the AI to understand them). Whatever we are considering is viewed as a whole. If we think that having it in offers so much fun that its worth the hit we take with the AI then we do it. If we think that the negative of the AI not understanding the function is greater than the fun of adding the feature then we remove it.

Let me give an example on both points, supply trains.

Some people have considered that your units should get generally weaker the longer they spend in enemy lands. To counter this effect you could build supply trains and send them to your attacking units to negate the effect. This adds a layer of complexity to the game and it would be difficult to get the AI to understand it (both to send the supply wagins along and to protect them effectivly).

Most people would agree that this wouldn't be fun. Its needless detail that forces the player into micromanagement without any specific thrill of having accomplished anything. Some players would love it, as I mentioned complexity is a personal preference. But its not that just adding in this layer makes the game better. It gives an additional thing to learn, an additional thing to discover, but that doesnt make it worthwhile.

For the Ai it would take significant work to get the Ai to use the mechanic well. More importantly the Ai's inability to use it well would result in a considerable advantage for the player. Even though this idea would be added anyway, the Ai issues alone would be enough to crush it. But if we decided that the idea itself would be kinda nice, with this sort of AI effect and requirement it would be dropped.