GOTM 52: End of the ancient age.

To qualify for this spoiler, you must have reached the end of the ancient age. In addition, you must have contact with all other civilizations.

Given that this is a deity game, did you modify your starting strategy at all? When the nearby civs were met? When the resource locations were uncovered? When the lay-of-the-land was revealed? How do you feel that you are doing in this game - and who are your greatest rivals?

As usual, I wrote down the first couple of moves, but then abandoned taking notes at all. Here's an impression though.

Expansion

By irrigating one wine and the cow and mining the rest, I was short a couple of shields for a 4 turner, so it became a 5 turner. If I had moved my settler, the 4 turner would have been possible, but since I built only a couple of settlers anyway, I do not regret not moving.

The granary was poprushed, because I feared losing out on any decent land. I managed to get all the grassland in the west, two incense resources and two cities north and northeast. The AI took care of barbarians for me, so I built little military.

Research

IW was the only 2nd tier tech, but I see the AI going for it all the time. I opted for alphabet at min, buying it along with pottery as soon as it was really cheap. Proceeded with writing, also buying it as soon as availabe. With the gpt deals in place, I hoped the Greeks and Carthage with their scary UUs would leave me alone.

Next move was literature at max and I got a monopoly on it, allowing me to trade me up to tech parity, lacking only currency, construction and polytheism. I wasted a lot of turns self-researching those because I got no help from the other AIs. Carthage was researching fast, asking monopoly prices and the rest was lagging behind. I did not build embassies, but I presume there was war going on. On the other hand, I did get the republic, monarchy and two out of three 1st tier MA techs for free or by trading, so maybe it wasn't so bad.

Production

Workers, libraries, barracks, horsemen (in that order). Guess what I'm going to do :satan:

Catastrophic start
How did I feel playing this game? Just one word : smothered!
I settled 1 tile NW of the starting position. I had awaited the AIs to be north, cause we were so close to the southern arctic region. From the start I decided to claim asap the region upstream the river (NW)(a further town that would need no aqueduct and a lot of commerce), but that was claimed by Greece faster than I could throw out my warrior for reconnaissance.:mad: For me there was no need to think about an RCP. Just claiming the few tiles left after the initial settling of AI towns. At deity they start with 3 settlers? Right? So the luck factor whether they send them away from your starting position or directly to your capital is a dominating factor in a small Pangaea deity game. I just managed to establish 10 towns at 1000BC, but not limited by the settlers I had produced but by the land left. And amongst that was a lot of tundra and hills.

Luckily survived
Begging for my pure survival I humbly did everything my AI masters were commanding me to do.:worship:
The luck that let me survive further was that my (our) two neighbours Greece and Carthage went to war in 1500BC. This war was balanced and none of them conquered a single town but the war went on for quite a couple of turns into the MA (~300BC)

Science and the ages

I started researching iron working. Initially I wanted to research pottery, but since I lost so many games by such a large amount of points I tend to take all the hints from the top players in the pregame discussion serious and even if I don’t see the point, incorporate them into my game and see what’s happening. This time researching iron working saved my neck. It was ideally tradable when I was far behind in tech since the AI’s in my game all have met very early and traded a lot (despite Greece and Babylon not knowing each other) iron working was followed by mathematics, what was also ideally tradable and so I kept up in the tech pace (as said before Greece and Carthage were wasting their resources in war). I was on even level when I had researched republic in 670 BC and immediately trading into the MA getting Feudalism and the Greeks getting Engineering what was also received in trade. I revolted to Republic and drew an anarchy of 4 turns…. But stop here I am already in the medieval.

Building….

After establishing my towns I try to squeech out every drop of my crappy situation to work every single tile I owned. I made Sogut my wonder building town .
(What shall this name say? It’s not a real town and not an easter egg. Or is there a top player whose name is Turkish translated Sogut? Well I asked a Turkish college – He had no idea, what that means. The capital before Constantinople was Bursa! In German that means So good, but that makes no sense)
The town in the west was made the worker pump to pump up the coastal tundra and hill towns. With harbors they were able to work two hills awhile getting enough commerce from the sea.
I built libraries first to get some culture pushing back the near borders of my opponents and to never fall behind in this fast tech race. After that I built barracks since I wanted to win by domination. I didn’t manage to get an AA wonder, but in the end I was building the Glib as prebuild for Leos.

Resources

As expected that was no problem – the iron next to Sogut (NE) and the horses for the next city in the west as in the east. I managed to claim both and made quite a deal selling the horses to Greece (getting Mapmaking by that, what I sold expensive to the Chinese and Spanish together with my WM)

My first official game of the month - started GOTM 51, but after a crash I figured it wouldn't count and gave it up. Never won on Diety before, so I chose Conquest class this time.

Settled first settler one south on the tundra, plan on using wines to make a settler factory. Second settler went 2 nw to get access to the cow. Minimum run toward iron working.

A very peaceful Ancient Age, as I'm building barracks and military units, settlers and workers. In 690 I research Currency and get a monopoly. Trade it around and get into MA, as well as netting world maps, a decent chunk of gold and gold per turn. I've set my cities to building horsemen and prepping for a run on Sipahi. Before that I was building swordsmen, planning to take some land from Carthage as the MA begins to boost my land mass before taking my Sipahi on a world tour.

Made no attempt at Ancient wonders, but started a prebuild shortly before the end of the ancient age in hopes of getting Leo's.

Also, built embassies and all other civs were beating the crap out of each other --- all the better for the peaceful (and devious, but they don't know that yet) Ottomans.

End of Ancient Age I have:
11 cities
3 lux
7 warriors
1 archer
14 swordsmen
2 horsemen
3 spearmen
1st place in Historiograph (yes, Conquest class makes a BIG difference:goodjob: )

Open PTW

My first official GOTM - I tried 51, but was playing it in Conquests and screwed it up, so I never finished it.

I moved the worker east to the hill and settled NW (how did people see the cow there without moving?) Was all set to spank any AI that settled in my first ring... then it turned out to be the greeks... with Carthage the other guy who might. *sigh*

My AA was a bit rocky - I made 3 mistakes, I think:

A) Research: I went pottery (not bad), writing, math - got a monopoly on pottery, which helped, but ended up having to buy everything and missed a mono on lit.
B) Settling: moved my first town south on the coastal tundra. Right place, wrong time - the greeks ended up settling on the grass coast to my SE, next to the hill, cutting me off.
C) Tribute: I was good about it, until Babylon demanded - I figured "they are on the other side of the world", so thumbed my nose. I had forgotten that they would get others involved - they quickly brought China and Carthage (or was it Greece? I don't remember) in on it. Fortunately, Greece and Carthage had had an early war, so they wasted their GA on each other.

I spend the second half of the AA at continuous war - fortunately, I built a bunch of cats which saved my butt, and no one seemed that interested in throwing swordsmen or horsemen at me...

Barbarians were another early issue - I kept trying to fight them, instead of just covering my worker and letting the AI stacks of warriors deal with them. I didn't lose a worker or get sacked, but I did have a worker idle for several turns until Carthage took care of a barb for me.

I got into the MA buy trading for techs, still at war.

Overall, not a great start, but I am still alive! and I was surprised at how small the AI stacks were - 2 or 3 units at a time. I was expecting stacks of 10 or so units.

open,ptw

move my settler to the east to avoid wasting the bonus land. and as a result, missed the cow :(
i was successful in building three cities before getting boxed in by Greece and Carthage. no turn was wasted on building a granary because i knew i wouldn't need it.
didn't complet researching a single tech myself thought i tried to get the wheel. however was able to get all the military tech via trading.

i declared on Greece after having about 8 horsemen and 3 swordmen. it's heartbeaking to see those brave horsemen dying attacking hoplites without retreating... my military soon was down to nothing after conquering two Greek cities (each defended by 3 hoplites). the reason i attacked Greece was because i found most AI capitals were defended by 2 spearmen as i established embassies with them. so i quickly sued for peace (without getting any thing from Greece since he's still much more powerful than me and was only taken by surprise by my attack. however the war slightly expanded my terriotory and i was on par with most AI in terms of area. my tech position however was so bad and i grow desperate (since originally i planned to get back by getting tech from Greece).
then a once-in-a-life time opportunity presented itself and Carthage built the great library! one of the newly-conquered Greek city was very close to Carthage and i started to set research to 0% and save up my military for the future scientific expedition :)

and this turns out to be very successful and i even got a great leader who created an army (would like to use him for forbidden palace but my land was just too small for it and didn't want to leave him there to prevent the appearance of a 2nd leader).
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/gotm_capturing_the_GL.JPG
and this brings me to MA in 370BC.

by the way, Carthage also has the pyramid :). to make the whole thing even sweeter, Carthage flipped back to Carthage :o so that i could retake it in the future before learning education.

Open PtW

Worker goes west to verify the cow lurking in the fog. Settler northwest is then the clear winner.
Settled in 3950. Build order warrior-worker-warrior-settler-granary.
Science: pottery, as this isn't around and the alternative the Wheel would tie my research to long.

Meet (all by my first warrior):
Greeks in 3600.
Carthage 3500.
Greeks and Carthage are already fighting :D
Chinese 2950.
Spanish 2800.
China and Spain also at war.
Babylon 2510.

Science progression (research always full throttle):
3300 pottery researched. Traded for alphabet and CB.
2230 mathematics researched.
2190 traded for TW, WC, writing, mysticism.
2070 traded for IW, MM
1830 traded for philosophy (was beaten to research by 1 turn), HBR
1475 polytheism researched. Traded for CoL and literature.
1100 traded for currency, construction - enter MA. All sci civs get mono. We are still researching republic (5 turns to finish).

For trading I used always gpt (later also horses, wines and even my only iron), never cash.
Everybody is happy with me and especially the nearest neighbors would lose quite a bit, if they would declare.
This shall stay so until I'm ready to go to war. Goal is conquest.

Empire at 1000BC:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/klarius_g52_0.jpg

Open, Vanilla.

Well my first ever game on deity level and I have to say the AA has gone a lot better than in some of my monarch and emperor level games. Civfanatics in general has improved my game a lot and playing the GOTM the last few months and reading these spoiler threads seems to have added to this exponentially.

Having only submitted domination victories in my 3 games to date (although one was accidental when I was going for a cow award :cry: ) I had been hoping to not look at going the military route this time but after reading the pre-game thread, the run for MT and domination sounded like the best plan so that is what I’ve been playing for but both diplomacy and spaceship remain open should I need a plan B.

I settled 1 tile north, figuring if tundra was visible from the starting position there was unlikely to be much fertile land between there and the coast. I sent a warrior exploring, fortified a spearman for defence and then sent a settler NW to found Iznik just passed the wheat. I was researching Alphabet at minimum.

It didn’t take too long to meet our near neighbours the Carthaginians and the Greeks (contacts made by the same warrior on adjacent turns) and discover I was slightly behind in techs. I was able to trade away some of the gap and after meeting the Chinese a few turns later close it to just one tech. The commerce rich nature of our starting position helped enormously as I quickly was able to amass enough of a war chest to switch research to maximum (minus the little bit of entertainment I needed as Inzik grew, before I was able to throw settlers out east to claim incense) and by following the path less well travelled, researching maths then currency,; polytheism letting me down by Carthage learning and trading it one turn before me :wallbash: I was able to buy construction for GPT the following turn and enter the MA one turn after everyone except Babylon.
I got Monotheism. I spoke to Alexander. He had Monotheism. I gifted Hammurabi. He got Monotheism :wallbash:

I’ve built my cities in a very tight RCP3 formation. This is unusual for me and I can’t help thinking I will pay for it after Sanitation but it seems to be paying dividends at the moment. I was about halfway through the age before I built any cultural buildings but now have a number of libraries and feel I should be able to keep up with the tech pace a while yet. It may be folly but I have decided to pursue Monarchy next. I want out of despotism quick smart, I figure there is only Spain likely to go for it as a high priority and if this game IS going to be mostly war it’ll serve me better than Republic. I’m aiming to get to Invention and build Leonardo’s en-route to MT so I hope this decision won’t leave me too far behind with nothing to trade.

The one serious mistake I made was an attempt at building the GLib in Sogut. I should have known with no pre-build that I was unlikely to get it and indeed still had nearly 30 turns left when it was completed in Madrid. With nothing big to switch too, an awful lot of shields that could have been better spent on horsemen and swords were wasted for nothing. My first task when I return and start to play the Middles Ages will be to work out the optimum time to start building a palace in Iznik so I won’t be caught out in this costly fashion when Leonardo’s does become available.

Just towards the end of the AT I had noticed that Carthage was starting to look a little vulnerable and although my military advisor told me we are weak compared to them, I knew we were close to having the infrastructure to build a military that could, if not crush them, terminally weaken them, whilst gaining valuable coastline and forcing a quick surrender. However before I could really get to the build-up phase Carthage declared on the much more powerful China. I have subsequently rejected Carthaginian calls for alliances and given in to Chinese extortion. This makes it very unlikely I will be able to take Carthage itself and claim the Colossus and Light House but by attacking unrepentantly while Hambaline is more concerned with Mao will hopefully fully open up the south east coast to the glory of the Ottomans…

PTW Open. Goal: military victory.

4000BC - Settler 1NW, to get off BG and towards Cow. And Cow it is indeed.
3950BC - Sogut. Worker moves on Cow to Irr and road it. Research: Pottery. Build: Warrior.
3700BC - Warrior explores. Start granary prebuild. Worker moves on BG.
3600BC - Warrior finds itself in the borders of newly founded Greek city, right on our doorstep! I mean, come on, it's 3 tiles from our capital! And same turn I see a Barb. Probably popped from a hut.
3250BC - Pottery learned. Sell it to Greeks for 9g to improve relations. Start Wheel.
3000BC - Granary built. Start Settler.
2630BC - contact Carthage, and we are known to China somehow. Iznik founded.
2590BC - learn Wheel but China already has it. Trade Wheel to Greece for Alphabet+10g. Trade Wheel+1gpt to Carthage for contact with Babs. Trade Pottery+Wheel to Babs for WC and CB. Start Math (thanks for advice in a Pregame thread - that was a great idea).

2150BC - Greece demands 8g and that's all we have, and we are running with -2gpt! We agree and our Granary gets disbanded! :mad: *** Greece, you'll pay me for this!
Sogut settler factory winds down building 3 more settlers, and that's all we can squeeze into our territory.
1790BC - Research Math 1st. Trade to Babs for Writing, IW, contact with Spanish and TM. Trade to Greece for Myst+TM+50g. Trade to Carthage for HBR, TM and 30g. Sell Myst to Spain for 30g and HBR to China for 13g. Start Lit.
1550BC - Furs hooked up.
1525BC - Lit researched but everybody knows it except Spain. Sell it to Spain for CoL. Then trade CoL+WM+70g to China for MM. Start Currency.
1150BC - 1 turn to Currency and 3 Civs already have it. Trade it for Philosophy and WM. Start Republic. Greece and Carthage are in MA.

1000BC - 9 cities, 27 pop. 10 workers, 10 warriors, 1 sword. All contacts, WM, missing Poly and Constr. 4 libraries, 3 barracks.
We are boxed in. 5 RCP4 cities and 3 RCP6 cities built and that's it, and the Greek Thermopilae is really hurting my RCP, it needs to go and fast. So we are building warriors for upgrade to MDIs for an early war.

775BC - learn Republic but we are late 1 turn. :( Still can trade it for Construction from Babs. Revolt, get 5 turns of Anarchy.
670BC - We are a Republic. Can reaserch Poly in 4 turns.
650BC - trade Poly from China for Wines, enter MA. Draw Monotheism. Greece and Carthage have Feudalism and Babs have Engineering.

Here's 1000BC snapshot:

Well this game was a lot easier than I would have thought.

Like most others I got boxed in really early, only managing 5 or so cities.
After seeing Carthage and Greece I was almost ready to quit right then.

I decided to forge on and try to get the GL..... which I missed (Spain got it). Next was to take Carthage which had the Pyramids. This turned out to be phenomenally easy as Greece and Carthage had been at war for all the AA. It was like taking out a Regent AI's troops

All Carthage had was about 6 size 1 cities. :goodjob: Unfortunatly a few were destroyed. I knocked Carthage down to 1 city by the end of the AA but didn't get a leader.

I'm just glad we had iron so nearby. (Funny though, I didn't find the furs till the Industrial age. Just missing that square.)

I must say, that all up this game is easier than the last Iroquios game, granted I played the Iroquios on predator and missed the horses though.

How hard is everyone else finding it? I might just have got lucky (which doesn't happen too often.) although not as lucky as Ionimplant. :-)

Ptw Predator.

I moved the settler north to get away from thundra and not between the rivers for faster AA-movement of my settlers & workers.

Sogut built warrior, warrior, granary, warrior, settler, worker, worker, settlers...

I researched Pottery, The Wheel, Literature at max and got monopolies on each :eek:
Pottery could only be traded for money and good will to far ahead Greeks and Carthaginians, but Wheel and literature gave me nearly parity.

CoL I researched half way and bought it. Republic at min was discovered by Babylon 5 turns before me (~800 BC) and not affordable to buy. But Babs did not even sell it elsewhere so I could hope to sell it later. Before getting it I traded for Poly, currency and construction for all gpt I had and reached MA.
Free tech was feudalism, two SCI civs had mono and feud already. Gifted Babs to MA, but they did not want to share their engineering :mad: . Ungrateful bastard!

I started a phony war with spain early to get some others involved but nobody wanted for lit + gpt :scared:
But Spain never came through and made peace giving me 20g without even having met :D

Rapid Expansion gave me incense and about 7 towns. I built barracks and libs everywhere and sold my Iron to Greek because I only wanted to build lots of horses (16 in QSC).

Catching up in tech was surprisingly easy so far, but Greek and Carthaginians did not have any fights so there are quite some units wandering through my land (with rop) :scared:

I plan to research to Chivalry, upgrade some horses and get some cities from Carthage. They gave me scary moments at the beginning when ~10 warriors chased some barbs near my capital in 3500 BC... Predator on deity rulz... :rolleyes:

Open, Vanilla

Let me echo that this was a surprisingly easy deity game. Strategic resorces nearby. No real pressure from the AIs nor from the raging barbs. But maybe I was hust luckky - at least in part.

Expansion:
The worker looked (successfully) for the suspected cow and Sogut was founded NW of the starting position. I built 2 warriors and an archer (to fight the barbs, but only 2 of them appeared), then granary and settlers.

I dedided on rcp4 and Iznik was founded in the west, Uskudar in the northwest. The settlers popping from Sogut were able to claim the tundra furs and the eastern incense. I even was able to place Istanbul on a 3 silks location in Greek country. (I did not connect the excess 2 silks to avoid extortion and luckily so, as Istanbul flipped 230bc to Greece. After the flip, I connected a silk and traded for it.)

Research:
Pottery I got for masonry from Greece. Plenty of luxuries (up to 4 local) allowed lots of science and little lux tax. I always researched as fast as possible, aiming to get monopoly techs. Iron monopoly was traded for ceremonial burial, warrior code, alphabet, and mysticism. Mathematics was learned same turn as Greece and Babylon, but still got me writing from Spain. Started construction. Map making was bought 1525bc paying about 70g and getting all maps after trading. In 1175bc Babylon learns construction and we buy it for 1gpt (we were almost done on it). Then trade construction for code of laws and horseback riding. Start researching republic.

In 650bc buy polytheism from Greece for wines, gpt, and cash. Trade it for currency. Enter Middle Ages. Get free monotheism. Trade it for literature.

Wonders:
Others reported nice nearby Wonders like Pyramids and Great Library. Not so in my game. Babylon got Colossus and Pyramids - as far away as possible from us. China built Great Lighthouse and Spain Great Library. But darn Carthage completed Great Wall, making their numidians even harder to kill. :(

Wars:
Greece and Carthage were already at war when we first met them. I suppose this greatly reduced their early expansion. To keep the AIs busy, I declared war on China and allied with Greece when I had a tech to spare for Alex. China allied with Spain, we signed up Babylon. Fun.

Our swords died in quantity trying to kill Carthage's numidian mercenaries in walled cities. Catapults didn't help much. Luckily Carthage always built archers for counter-attacks. Killing them produced Great Leader Orhan 410bc. I decided to save him for Sun Tzu's to greatly speed future conquests.

Plans:
Iznik has Forbidden Palace and will pre-build for Leonardo's. As Orhan is ready to hurry Sun Tzu's, IMHO I will have a very good chance to get both military Wonders. Research of course will be towards military tradition full speed. But that is to be reported in the next spoiler.

PS: Demographics shows us being first in approval, pop, gnp, mfg goods, production, income, productivity. :D

Ottomans at 310bc:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/tao_gotm52_310bc.jpg

:lol: I never thought id see the day that someone would be happy about a city with the Pyramids flipping to another civ.

Never played Deity before, so I have no reference. I have to admit, seeing Carthage and Greece right next to me sucked - specially when Thermopylae went right where I wanted my 2nd city to go.

But they had early wars, so it wasn't too bad...

btw - how did people see the cow before moving the worker? Or was it just something that people figured was there, because it was cruel to not put a cow nearby?

130AD First GotM that actually started decent, but alas a glorious defeat for me.

One town raided by about 20 barbarian horsemen/scouts. Greece flipped one of my cities which was located near the silks. Then Greece declared war on me and got help from the Carthagians which I was preparing to attack and later help from Spain.
I was keeping up with the techs by getting my hands on philosophy and trading that along, as well as writing and currency slightly before that, but sadly I was no more than a push over.


Submission didn't work, but I'll retry that later.

Reason:
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Can't log in to server

Reason:
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Can't log in to server
i got the same message one minute ago. will try another computer...

Open, Vanilla.
...
I got Monotheism. I spoke to Alexander. He had Monotheism. I gifted Hammurabi. He got Monotheism :wallbash:

You shouldn't be suprised when all science civs get monotheism. That's what happens in civ3 vanilla. It happened to Klarius too, and that was more suprising as he's playing PTW.

2150BC - Greece demands 8g and that's all we have, and we are running with -2gpt! We agree and our Granary gets disbanded! *** Greece, you'll pay me for this!

It can be avoided. During the demand you can enter the big picture and trim down research.

Yes, there is a problem with the submission process at the moment. Give it a day or so.

It can be avoided. During the demand you can enter the big picture and trim down research.

How do you enter the big picture from the diplomacy screen?

This is what klarius said in COTM13 after Twonky had a similar experience as Nata.

A small tip for future reference .
You can click on your advisor next to the demand pop-up. This lets you access your advisor screens to adjust your gpt.

Yes, there is a problem with the submission process at the moment. Give it a day or so.Sure thing. It's not as if there is any hurry yet. The game still runs a few weeks. :)

I had a lot of fun, pity I was knocked out so fast. I'm certain to give this map another try and see where it gets me but of course that's not eligable for submission.

Since nobody has responded so far I assume, not too many people know the reason for the Ottoman capital being named Sogut. Just a new and interesting consideration of myself: I managed to find out, that Sogut in Turkish, if written with a soft 'g', and then pronounced So-oot means 'colder'. Do we have a master player called 'Colder'? Not in English IIRC, but taking the Italian language, (tR1cKy correct me if I'm wrong) that's :

Tada - "Piu freddo"!

Is that correct? Good enough is he. Ok, it was my first try to figure out. I will keep busy hunting for the secret.

You shouldn't be suprised when all science civs get monotheism. That's what happens in civ3 vanilla. It happened to Klarius too, and that was more suprising as he's playing PTW.

Really? I can't say I'd noticed it before.

Are you saying it happens every time or just more frequently than it should?

Tada - "Piu freddo"!

I wish. My Greece and Carthage didn't quarrel, but Greece attacked me and it cost 24 gpt to ally Carthage against it. I've stopped playing it.

I wish. My Greece and Carthage didn't quarrel, but Greece attacked me and it cost 24 gpt to ally Carthage against it. I've stopped playing it.
well, if you had 24gpt, isn't it a reasonable price to pay for your two nearest neighbor to fight?

This is what klarius said in COTM13 after Twonky had a similar experience as Nata.

Thanks Redbad, I tried it and it worked!

Really? I can't say I'd noticed it before.

Are you saying it happens every time or just more frequently than it should?

Always. I.i.r.c. in civ3 vanilla science civs get
monotheism at the start off the MA
nationalism at the start off the IA
rocketry at the start off the MT

Well... I didn't get very far. I suppose Greece just wanted my silks and kept dominating me with an overload of military. I did have 2-4 spearmen in each of my towns as a safetystack until my culture grew. Did anyone else have problems with Greece needing the silks? I started up two new games and went for the silks again and similar things happened. In one game once I got my town to 2 Greece hit me and in the other I traded silks with them and kept him away from becoming grumpy but for some reason he still wanted me dead. :(
Oh well, 4th try, lol. I must get beyond Deity some time... or maybe I just ought to go try it for a Conquest. I was planning something cultural or maybe a chance for space.


Btw. here's my pitiful submitted score.
Software Version: PtW 1.27f for Windows
Entry class: Open
Game status: Conquest Loss
Game date: 130 AD
Firaxis score: 410
Jason score: 392
Time played: 01:11:04

Always. I.i.r.c. in civ3 vanilla science civs get
monotheism at the start off the MA
nationalism at the start off the IA
rocketry at the start off the MT
Not always, but in 95+% of the cases. There once was a post on this a long time ago. And IIRC I once got engineering and once computers.

Always. I.i.r.c. in civ3 vanilla science civs get
monotheism at the start off the MA
nationalism at the start off the IA
rocketry at the start off the MT

No - not always. I have at least seen Mono and Feudalism gotten free in Vanilla - and maybe even an instance of Eng.

And I know I've seen Medicine as a freebie before.

This is a mini-spoiler, I will edit later. Goal: Conquest/Dom

I settle in place, and plan to do a ring 3/5 around my capital. Very soon I soooo enjoy seeing Greece and Carthage right next to me - which means no early archer rush here, and ended up meaning no AA war at all. I took the advice of the monopoly techs (of which, some I didn't know they were not researched by the AI) and maintained tech parity through the entire age. In 1000BC, I am short Curr, Constr, Poly, and am doing a min run on Republic. The turn before 850BC, I see the world has Curr and Const, so I buy them for the gold I've horded for the few turns, plus some GPT, which will run out the turn before I get republic. The next turn, I see Carthage's towns change ages, so I go and buy Poly as well.

I (even after my statement in my last post) draw Mono, as did all the other scientific civs :lol:

As for infrastructure and military, I have 7 towns including one crunched next to Greece to the SW of the start, 4 (I think) rax, 2 horsemen, 4 swords and 2-3 cats a few turns before I hit the MA. The next few turns will be spent building swords and cats to go after Greece (I switch b/c Carthage builds the Wall). I plan to use Monotheism to buy in all the non-sci civs to attack them.

I settled on the spot. I went minimum science and saved cash to buy techs. I made sure I was paying both Carthage and Greece gpt.

Carthage and Greece had a long and nasty war. That allowed me to poach some good city sites. I went for RCP 3 and 6.

After Greece took Carthage, I let them buy me into the war and my horsemen wiped out Carthage.

At the end of the AA, I was building up to attack Greece (cats and swords and horsemen) I spotted a huge stack of Babylonians heading south. My exploring warrior trailed them.

The Babs attacked Greece! On the very same turn Greece attacked me! The Babs softened up the Greeks and I took Carthage and Utica (horses and iron) and razed Sparta. My horsemen did surprisingly well against the Greeks given that they had the great wall.

This war extended into the MA so I'll stop here. There was one unfortunate consequence of the Babylonian declaration: it severed a trade route so I lost my reputation.

My biggest problem will be the Babylonian culture. They have several AA wonders. I'll have to clobber them ASAP.

I plan to take a big chunk of Greece and leave them resourceless and sign up the Chinese and Spanish to attack the Babylonians after they exhaust themselves on Greece.

However, once again I had severe instability problems with lots of crashes. It getting really annoying.

Since nobody has responded so far I assume, not too many people know the reason for the Ottoman capital being named Sogut. Just a new and interesting consideration of myself: I managed to find out, that Sogut in Turkish, if written with a soft 'g', and then pronounced So-oot means 'colder'. Do we have a master player called 'Colder'? Not in English IIRC, but taking the Italian language, (tR1cKy correct me if I'm wrong) that's :

Tada - "Piu freddo"!

Is that correct? Good enough is he. Ok, it was my first try to figure out. I will keep busy hunting for the secret.

With the magic of google I found this for you:

The Ottoman Turks were descendants of Turkoman nomads who entered Anatolia in the 11C as mercenary soldiers for the Seljuks. At the end of the 13C, Osman I (from whom the name Ottoman is derived) asserted the independence of his small principality in Sogut near Bursa, which adjoined the decadent Byzantine Empire.

Iroumen: I don't have a huge amount of experience with deity, but I have found that the AI comes after me when several things are true:

1) The military advisor thinks I'm am weaker than them - this seems to be true until you destroy a lot of units.
2) I have something they want - lux, money, tech.
3) I have a vulnerability, usually a city a ways away from my core that is lightly defended, or they walk by an undefended city.

The silks were quite a way from Sogut - my guess is that you were just overextended, particularly since you would have had a long border with greece at that point. That's just a guess, of course.

That's the thing that pretty much always kills me - overextending in the AA and taking stuff that the AI thinks are rightfully their's.

Vanila, Predator.

I moved the settler north to get away from tundra and not between the rivers for faster AA-movement of my settlers & workers. See Cow and settle.

Sogut built warrior, warrior, warrior, granary, warrior, settler, worker, settlers...

I researched Pottery at max, and got monopoly.
Traded it for Alpha and WC. Then research wheel at max, and writing at min.
Get behind. To get parity borrow money from Cartage twise (197 for 12 gpt). Got Monopoly on Literature at 1475 BC. Trade around for contacts, WM, Tech Parity aarch phylo -> Republic at max. Leptis Minor flip to me. Cartage establish embassy and was Gracious. At 1400 Babs ask 40 gold: I cave in a hope to trade Phylo next turn. At 1300 Greeks demand Phylo at 1300 BC, I cave again, but probably better not to do it…
Rapid Expansion with Settler factory gave me incense and 7 towns.
I use RCP4 + 1, Cartage found Hippo at ring. I built (and poprush) libs everywhere , may be it was a reason that Leptis flipped. Babs and Cartage go for Spain. I joined this war for some cash.
Cartage got Republics 1 turn before me, at 850 BC, I got it for 11 gold and revolt. (4 turns Anarchy). At 800 BC I declare Greeks, in a hope to take Pharsaphalos (fur) and pillage around Athens and Sparta. Meanwhile Babs and Cartage get Polytheism and enter to MA. At 750 BC China got Poly, and I drug them to war with Greeks for Republic for Poly. Cartage went to this war for Monotheism. Greek built TGL in Athens, China Lighthouse and Babs GW. (Babs had Colosus and Oracle, Cartage- Pyramids).
I manage to capture Pharsaphalos and hope about Sparta but hesitate about Athens.

Thank you for the tips Teller. I think it explains why I always have difficulties at Deity. I always try to scatter as far as I can and do a run for luxury to keep my people happy. Those silks were very far away so maybe I should let Greece take them and start a trade with them for it. I don't like trading too much though, but I've gained the impression that at high difficulty levels it becomes really important.

I think on the higher levels, trading is a necessity, at least until you are the bad boy on the block. That's why having wines like that was good - 3 luxes means 2 civs you can keep off your back, at least for a while. Also, the AI will often not attack someone they have traded with - I think that AI attitude does help determine who gets attacked. I just played a deity game and germany and Babylon were the big powers - both had been trading partners all game, but I broke some deal with Babylon (not sure what), and then I got a stack of about 50 mech infantry in my pretty much undefended core and they just went nuts. At that point, I didn't have 50 units in my entire army, so the gig was completely up...
The inability to spread out and the near certainty of a city plopped about 4 tiles from your capitol before you get a settler out was the hardest thing to get used to for me. Those civs just become early targets, is all.

Well, that and the large stacks of warriors that walk through your lands at will. I think that may be why there are so many early AI/AI wars - a 4 warrior stack walks through exploring, they get demanded to leave and they flip each other off.

I don't like how they can just walse through your culture influence like you're nothing. In the lower difficulty levels I rarely see it happen as much, but this deity game I get spearmen with settlers walking across my borders to steal one nice positioning away from me. That's all fine and dandy because I'm building my empire slightly slower than before having only 7 cities now packed veryr close together (the usual circular motif).

Then a few turns later both cities flip to me due to my higher culture (them being Spain and China (?) who have their capital half a continent away and no other city nearby) and they declare war on me. I didn't even do anything in particular, they just can't keep their city in order. Worse even, they immediately got Greece involved in the same turn they declared war so before I get my turn for diplomacy. Now I only had Carthage to ask but they were already down to 3 cities because of their own AA war with Greece so I get no help at all.

..... and I got squashed again.... retry nr 4.

I'd best only let Greece settle near me and I should try to keep Spain and China from settling near me since they will flip in no time.

I'm still having fun though. I hadn't tried deity much since I can only handle Regent and below without problems and higher I'm struggling. At least I'm getting more experienced in trading which is my goal for this GotM and then I'll try to apply it all to the next one.

@Iroumen

A little trick that seems to placate the Diety AI, I think anyways, is when I notice that someone is furious with me, I will gift them 1 GPT (If I can afford it). This usually gets them back up to Annoyed, which means they are less likely to declare war. Sometimes, though, they just have their mind set on your destruction, but in this game, I have been able to keep the wars to whom I want to fight and when, not vice versa.

Also, do not accept their flipping cities - less of a reason for them to attack, plus, those are easy to roll over when you do go to war.

And one more thing - they can run over you militarily probably because you are building too much culture! Those shields are probably better used on some horsemen/knights.

A little trick that seems to placate the Diety AI, I think anyways, is when I notice that someone is furious with me, I will gift them 1 GPT (If I can afford it). This usually gets them back up to Annoyed, which means they are less likely to declare war. Sometimes, though, they just have their mind set on your destruction, but in this game, I have been able to keep the wars to whom I want to fight and when, not vice versa.

If someone is annoyed with you, you probably already made a mistake unless this someone is weak or far away. Casually they do not even accept gifts of 1 gpt :eek:

If I note some "important" AI being not friendly I try to gift something. If you are the tech broker this is quite easy, because they seldom have as much money as they would pay you for a tech. Just gift them so much money that they can just afford what you are selling them and get it immediately back in the deal. If you do this kind of "priceless" donation on every opportunity, you will hardly encounter furios rivals. If I'm not sure what price they will accept, I do the gifting in portions of 10-20g and check if I get all my money back.

All gifts add on to a nice attitude in my games. Which of course does not spare me from casual assaults :mad: - but at least I get my allies cheaper / the attacker has to pay more for allies against me.

Remember: It's always convenient to be regarded as the nice guy (until YOU want to change it :evil: ).

If someone is annoyed with you, you probably already made a mistake unless this someone is weak or far away.

Well, it might have been that I was declaring war left and right against my neighbors, :D and there weren't any roads to trade luxes yet.

I didn't know you could decline cities that are flipping.

I was trying to keep my people happy so I built Temples and for research I built Libraries so that's probably not the path to take in cities near enemies and is only reserved for core cities? I still like some culture to expand my borders so I can work the entire cross rather than just a cube.

Well, it might have been that I was declaring war left and right against my neighbors, :D and there weren't any roads to trade luxes yet.

That's what I mean: If you already had war with a rival, I won't expect him to become your friend again - but I would expect him to be weak or far away otherwise you had better killed him...:rolleyes:

And trading luxuries in a crowded world is an attitude-risk on its own - always trade for gpt or other luxes so it's no rep hit if the trade network is broken...

That's why I refered to trading techs for cash.

I didn't know you could decline cities that are flipping.

You can deny any flip (only from other civs to you :cry: ), you are asked when it happens.

another way to handle that is to declare war on one of them when the city flips and drag the other into it - then they are fighting, and you just keep building culture. or bring greece or babylon into it.

I'm a little surprised that china and spain got near enough to you to build cities, though. Greece and Carthage must have had a heck of a war!

In my game, I made the mistake of not giving in to a demand by babylon, and soon had Spain and Carthage attacking me - I built a bunch of catapults and that helped a lot - those are inexpensive and a damaged archer/spear is either an easy target for your swords/archers, or will withdraw.

I also fortified spears in the mountains - the AI often won't attack them - they do attack unfortified spears. They go around to the more open territory, where they are more vulnerable.

One nice thing about them walking through your culture is that they tend to kill all the barbs for you, which is quite helpful. But yeah - it's always a little nerve-wracking to see a stack of 4 warriors and a spear walk through your boundaries. When I see that, I make sure every city has a garrison (cause an open city is as irresistable as playboy for a teenager) and just keep going.

The reason why they walk through you like that on the upper levels is that they have so many extra units - at regent, you and the AI are even. At Deity, they start with more, they build their 2nd city faster with the free settler, and where each archer costs you 20 SP, it costs them 12, so even the cities they throw behind you that are totally corrupt can have a strong defense in 12 turns, with an extra spear or an extra archer...

You can deny any flip (only from other civs to you :cry: ), you are asked when it happens.Ah, I reloaded a save to check and I guess that I usually just continue on without giving it a second thought, lol. I never really payed attention to that.

I still have to get used to this Deity level thing, but at least I'm progressing further than before. Now I'm more circular rather than stretched so I can be everywhere in no time.

another way to handle that is to declare war on one of them when the city flips and drag the other into it - then they are fighting, and you just keep building culture. or bring greece or babylon into it.

I'm a little surprised that china and spain got near enough to you to build cities, though. Greece and Carthage must have had a heck of a war!

In my game, I made the mistake of not giving in to a demand by babylon, and soon had Spain and Carthage attacking me - I built a bunch of catapults and that helped a lot - those are inexpensive and a damaged archer/spear is either an easy target for your swords/archers, or will withdraw.

I also fortified spears in the mountains - the AI often won't attack them - they do attack unfortified spears. They go around to the more open territory, where they are more vulnerable.

One nice thing about them walking through your culture is that they tend to kill all the barbs for you, which is quite helpful. But yeah - it's always a little nerve-wracking to see a stack of 4 warriors and a spear walk through your boundaries. When I see that, I make sure every city has a garrison (cause an open city is as irresistable as playboy for a teenager) and just keep going.

The reason why they walk through you like that on the upper levels is that they have so many extra units - at regent, you and the AI are even. At Deity, they start with more, they build their 2nd city faster with the free settler, and where each archer costs you 20 SP, it costs them 12, so even the cities they throw behind you that are totally corrupt can have a strong defense in 12 turns, with an extra spear or an extra archer...

The other reasons why cats are useful are A) they upgrade throughout the ages and B) they don't die when they miss, so if you are careful, you never lose them and your store of them can always grow.

Let's just say, 2 warriors was not enough :)

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/common/swordsman_small.gif
Predator, Vanilla. Goal is the globe (what else, Pinky?)

Worker NW spots the cow; settler NW, then Sogut is founded in 3950BC; the cow is roaded and irrigated, then the BG is roaded and mined; the initial build sequence is warrior -> warrior -> settler -> warrior -> worker; after another settler a granary is built, then the city will produce all the settlers for expansion, until much later.

Research is set on Pottery at max; soon explorers meet Carthage (3450BC) and Greece (3250) - tough! Pottery is completed and traded for Warrior Code; research is virtually stopped at this point. Being weaker, we buy techs for gpt to discourage the AS from attacking too early. Alphabet is bought from Carthage, then around 2400BC we meet the Chinese and trade for the remaining contacts. Writing, Iron Working and Wheel are learned, and min run on Literature is started. The iron source is left unconnected.

Cities are built at RCP 3.5 from Sogut. Iznik (3200BC) and Uskudar (2630BC) are founded; 2 more workers are produced; Uskudar starts tossing workers every 5 turns until a workforce of 6 is reached; Iznik builds barracks, then is set to train warriors; a pair of them are sent to prevent barb camps (horse barbs at deity are no fun), the others are kept for a later mass-upgrade;

What follows is a rush to fill the gaps and claim resources before the AS do it first; Izmit (1870BC) is founded on the horse fields east, beating a carthaginian settler; Aydin (1725BC) claims furs; Antalya (1550BC) closes the gap SE. In 1425BC a frantic trade round ends up with the complete knowledge of the continent, with a negligible final cost. In the same turn Bursa is founded, too late for an inner ring city, but strategic considerations came first. The last QSC city, Edrine, is founded in 1275BC;

In the same period, Mysticism is bought for gpt and embassies are put everywhere. In 1200BC Literature is researched. Someone else got it first, but a trade for Philosophy (and nothing else) is carved out anyway. In 1150BC, iron is finally connected and warriors are being upgraded. Those beasts are a damn lot, but the excess money due to zero research is enough to have them all ready 2 turns later;

Time to wage war. The obvious target is Carthage, but they have a lot of money and are likely to buy allies, unless we find a way to separate them from their treasure. It's time to lose our trade rep, and in the most spectacular way. Mathematics and Map Making are bought from Greece for wines and gpt. A loan is asked to Carthage, then war is declared immediately. Research on Poly is ramped up at max.

1050BC: 1st Punic war.

A force of 17 swords, 2 spears and 1 settler, divided in 2 stacks, is sent to 2 different targets, that are both hit successfully in 1000BC. Utica is destroyed, with a settler ready to claim the empty land, and Hippo is captured.

We hit the 1000BC mark with 8 native towns and a ninth one just captured from Carthage.

As planned, Istanbul (975BC) is founded as a replacement for Utica. Both the stacks converge to Carthage with a coordinated advancement that got them to rejoin just outside the enemy capital. In 925BC, Carthage is captured. Oracle and Great Wall are seized.

Casualties were significant and we are forced to sign peace. We extort: the village of Sabratha, Map Making, Horse Riding, a WM and a few money. Luxury 3 (incense) is hooked next turn. In 800BC we complete Poly (monopoly!) and trade it for Construction and a lot of cash. Research is set to Monarchy at max possible, then war erupts again.

750BC: 2nd Punic war.

In 775BC we declare again vs. Carthage. We take over the cities of Leptis Magna (750BC) and Leptis Minor (710BC), then peace is signed again. No techs are gained, but those losers toss in all their money, badly needed. Max research hurts! With Carthage playing OCC in Theveste, in the middle of the jungle, it's time to seek for another target... but the AS decides for us. In 690BC Babylon demands iron, we send them packing and they declare. Well, i could have gifted them the resource, then disconnect one iron, then mass-build some warriors for a later upgrade... too late to rethink. China is signed in vs. Babylon for a backwards tech, a luxury and some gpt.

At this point, the only available target is Greece. Two stacks of swords are amassed again, this time on the western front.

610BC: 1st Hellenic war.

Troops move to Sparta and Athens - but those pukes had readied a nasty surprise: in the interturn, Sparta (built on a hill) grows to size 7 :mad: Hoplite defending at 6, and you see it. Many swords are lost, but Sparta falls anyway in 590BC. In 570BC it's Athens turn. Size 6 on grass, but with a bigger defense force. Both cities are destroyed, even at size 1 they would require 6 units each to be safe. In their places, the cities of New Athens (570BC) and Konya (530BC) are founded. The 4th luxury (silks) is also secured. Once again, casualties are too high to prosecute the war and peace is signed as soon as possible, in 510BC.

With peace dealings we extort Currency and enter into the Middle Ages. The free tech is Monotheism, as for Greece and Babylon. Despite many elite wins, not a single leader has emerged so far.

-------------------

We're 1 turn away from researching Monarchy. Republic is widely known and it can be bought for Monotheism, but i'll probably revolt to Monarchy and prosecute this strategy of short wars, extorsions, and brief peace periods in which i'll be probably fighting someone else. All the AS are in Republic now and i intent to plague them with war weariness as much as i can.

Here's a shot in 510BC, at the dawn of the Medievals:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/GotM52-shot1.jpg

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/common/swordsman_small.gif PTW 1.27

I'm a bit jealous! I did read the game discussion thread, but several days before I actually played, and I forgot about the cow discussion. So I moved my Worker onto the nearby Grapes, saw a 3rd one, said +5 food, that's good for me, moved 1 NE to found Sogut, and missed the Cows and Wheat! Oh well.

Saw there were no Expansionistic civs, so Pottery at Max. Built 2 Warriors for Exploration, then pre-build Barracks for Granary. Man, Greece and Carthage were close! Still, I built Granary (with a chop assistance) and it was time to build a bunch of 5 turn Settlers. I grabbed a space between the Cows and Wheat (distance 2) and played for the Incense on the coastal/hills to the East (distance 7) because Carthage was already settling in the area. After that, I focused on a distance 5.x Ring (BTW, one Carthage city and 1 Greek city are at distance 5 as well! :D ) After settling the cities I could found, Sogut went on a Worker spree, which lasted the rest of the AA.

Played very peaceful game, little defense as the AI went after the barbs. Gave in to lots of demands. Pottery was traded for WC and CB (I must go back to see if Alphabet was an option! That would be the best choice by far!!!!) Next was Alphabet with no trade options; all the AI already knew it.

Finally Math at Maximum. Gold was a problem as my Granary was eating into my small treasury. I paused from building Settlers to build a Worker which I traded to Carthage for 24 Gold; that allowed me to stay at my maximum research and I learned Math in 1600 BC. Traded for IW, Writing and Wheel, then for Philosophy, finally for Mysticism. Carthage had Map-Making uniquely, and most knew HBackRiding, but I was otherwise caught up and had some Gold back in my pocket.

Which the AI demanded, of course. I even gave Philosophy to China when he so politely demanded it.

Next was Literature, which I uniquely learned in 1200 BC. A few pre-builds were switched over to Library, and a few pop-rushes occurred. 2 Civs knew Currency, so I picked that up first. 3 Civs knew Poly, so the one that didn't know Currency trade me Poly for Curr and Lit. And with that, I could easily get the rest of the Techs that were known. Only things left were Construction and the 2 Government Techs; I headed after Republic at Max.

This was the status at 1000 BC:

7 Towns with 20 Population (an 8th town, the one founded on the coastal hills with Incense, flipped to Carthage!)
1 Granary
1 Barracks
5 Libraries

10 Warriors
9 Workers

All AA Techs except Construction, Republic (22 turns to go at 90%) and Monarchy

2 Embassies (Greece and Carthage)

241 Gold in Treasury

Picture of my tiny, cramped, hemmed in on all sides empire:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/cvst_g52_bc1000Main.JPG

As you can see, I don't have much more space to expand into. China has already done in Spain, and there's a war going on between Greece and Carthage, with most of the other AI siding with Carthage.

Carthage beats me to Republic, but there are no good trade opportunities. In 800 BC I see the time to learn Republic go from 10 turns to 6. Someone else has learned it! Babylon. Carthage gives me the better deal, and I buy it for as much Gold as I can, minimizing on GPT (I figure I will get a free Tech to sell back to Carthage and get my gold back). So for 220ish Gold an 1 gpt I have Republic. China trades me a widely known Construction for a 3-way known Republic and I'm medieval gaining a free Monotheism. 3 other civs know Feudalism, so I have a monopoly.

Since I have Republic and Mono on Greece's Feudalsim (3-way known), I decide to trade Mono first to Carthage to pick up over 800 Gold (the 220 or so I traded him plus 600 or so he'd picked up). Next was Mono and Republic to Greece for Feud, a Luxury and 25 gpt. With Babylon, I got another Luxury and over 200 Gold for the Mono. So I'm up to 4 Luxuries and over 1000 gold in the bank. That sounds like about 16 upgrades to Medieval Infantry. :) I think Carthage is not long for staying on this continent; which will give me a much needed expansion; at the current size I would not stay competitive for long.

With the magic of google I found this for you:

The Ottoman Turks were descendants of Turkoman nomads who entered Anatolia in the 11C as mercenary soldiers for the Seljuks. At the end of the 13C, Osman I (from whom the name Ottoman is derived) asserted the independence of his small principality in Sogut near Bursa, which adjoined the decadent Byzantine Empire.


Yeah, thanks, you're right. I didn't realise this cause I learned, that Bursa was capital before Constantinople and couldn't imagine there was another before since they were such a small tribe.

But apart from that, the coincidence between -So(g)oot- in Turkish and "Piu Freddo" was that funny, that I couldn't resist to let you participate;)

Predator. http://gotm.civfanatics.net/common/swordsman_small.gif

I settled 1NW to get the cow and both wines. The plains wheat came as a pleasant surprise. Buid order was warrior, worker, settler, settler. Settlers were clearly better then a granary in this case because of the abundance of food bonuses and because of aggressive AI expansion.

in 3600BC the greeks settled Thermopilae, which is their third city just about where i wanted to settle my second city!:mad: There is no way they could build a settler so fast even with the 50% discount on predator and they are supposed to get only one free settler on deity. There is definitely something wrong, they either popped a settler from a hut or AI starting units were messed up like in gotm46 where the AI got a settler instead of a worker on emperor.

Anyway i decided to settle agressively and claim the grassland wheat with my second city, i could also share the cow between the two cities. The diplo penalty was insignificant because after trading with Alex he soon became polite and then gracious and the 0.5% flip chance added some extra spice to my game :D. The 3rd city went near the wines and remaining 4 cities filled reamining RCP4 spots. I only managed to settle 7 cities and the AI filled all the remaining spots.

I researched as fast as i could right from the start. The tech path:

2750BC - Alphabet.
1990BC - Math, trade for 1st & 2nd tiers.
1525BC - Literature, trade to tech parity including Philosophy and CoL.
975BC - Republic, trade to enter MA.

I drew a 6 turn anarchy and then a 3 turn one on the reroll. All scientific civs drew monotheism. I mostly played C3C, so i'm a little confused: is it normal or is it just bad luck? I am playing PTW.

I built libraries in most of my cities after researching Literature, then some cities built barracks and warriors and some more infra like harbours and granaries. The plan now is to upgrade veteran warrios using cash from selling techs and build some more swords normally and then attempt to get some more land from the greeks (and eliminate the culture threat). The main goal is still to reach MT, though given the very small size of our pangaea fighting with knights or MDI might be faster.

QSC stats:
7 towns with 35 population.
7 workers, 1 slave (bought from AI).
1 turn left to Republic and MA.
6 libraries, 3 barracks, 1 granary, 1 harbour.
16 warriors, 6 of them veterans for later upgrade, 1 sword.

My empire at 1000BC:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Obormot_GOTM52_1000BC.jpg

I failed in 20 turns due to not reading properly about the game settings and the cow.

When i read some of the spoilers here though, i see one big mistake made by some players, and that is having multiple libraries before 1000BC.

No matter what victory condition you are going for, Libraries are not the way, pointy stick is far better.

All scientific civs drew monotheism. I mostly played C3C, so i'm a little confused: is it normal or is it just bad luck? I am playing PTW.

The science civs in my game drew mono too, though I myself got feud. I'm playing PTW. So I'd say it is bad luck, but a lot of people are getting mono. Regardles if they're playing vanilla or ptw :confused:

When i read some of the spoilers here though, i see one big mistake made by some players, and that is having multiple libraries before 1000BC.

But in this game the libs are cheap and you're in control of the research path. And with the libs you will be quite capable of researching MT before any of the AI get it.

I failed in 20 turns due to not reading properly about the game settings and the cow.

When i read some of the spoilers here though, i see one big mistake made by some players, and that is having multiple libraries before 1000BC.

No matter what victory condition you are going for, Libraries are not the way, pointy stick is far better.

and more importantly many of us are just trying to beat the AI while enjoying the game. :) maybe there're some non-optimized strategies. but as long as they are fun...

No matter what victory condition you are going for, Libraries are not the way, pointy stick is far better.

0% research on deity is way overrated IMO. Reaching MT well before AI get rifles is only possible with self-research and that will be my goal. Perahps in this game a no research game could work out nicely, especially on predator with even more expensive techs, because on such a small pangaea it might be possible to kill the AI with knights or MDI faster then sipahis, but even this is argueable.

0% research on deity is way overrated IMO. Reaching MT well before AI get rifles is only possible with self-research and that will be my goal. Perahps in this game a no research game could work out nicely, especially on predator with even more expensive techs, because on such a small pangaea it might be possible to kill the AI with knights or MDI faster then sipahis, but even this is argueable.

With no research you don't have to be behind, you can still be tech leader.
However, i am not talking about a full no research game.
In this game, you are in an extremely confined space with strong enemies around you. If you wait for chivalry to take them on, you will be living in a half sized empire until that time and you will have to face some pretty tough opponents. Due to your small empire, you will not even have a very strong research either.
So you gotta kick some ass and fight for space. If you choose to do something, you better do it good.
Build 4 or 5 towns with nothing but rax. Research Iron Working, stop research, build veteran warriors and upgrade them. Then, keep building nothing but swords or horses. You will get them while they are still building settlers and run over those nieghbours like nothing.
From there, with the space you got, you can go on and build libraries.

With no research you don't have to be behind, you can still be tech leader.

You can have tech parity with AIs. This means that you'll get MT at the same time as top AI will. But AI doesn't make beelines, so this means that you'll get it shortly before AI civs enter IA and get rifles.


In this game, you are in an extremely confined space with strong enemies around you. If you wait for chivalry to take them on, you will be living in a half sized empire until that time and you will have to face some pretty tough opponents. Due to your small empire, you will not even have a very strong research either.
So you gotta kick some ass and fight for space. If you choose to do something, you better do it good.
Build 4 or 5 towns with nothing but rax. Research Iron Working, stop research, build veteran warriors and upgrade them. Then, keep building nothing but swords or horses. You will get them while they are still building settlers and run over those nieghbours like nothing.
From there, with the space you got, you can go on and build libraries.

OK, now i understand what you mean. This may actually be a good strategy on this map. It looks like Tricky is playing such a game, so we can compare our games and see which approach is better.

To be sure i am not talking , i just did a fast little test game

Of course, it is not completely fair since i restarted, but using this strategy i gathered 17 swords and 9 vet warriors from my 5 cities by 1300BC.
Looking at it, it could have been better with only 4 cities.
Iron working was tradable for a load of the early techs.

1275BC, i took the first Greek city, it was defended by 1 guy.
1225BC, i the second defended by 2.
1200BC, the third, defended by1.

So at least the first part works fine ;)

This my first GOTM, so I chose Conquest this time, as I have never played on Deity before.

I moved both my settlers two tiles before I settled them, one NW, NW, the other SE, SE, so that one town had the cow, the other the wines. I did not explore very well, so I didn't really choose the places for my next towns deliberately, it rather was the only land I knew. By sheer luck, however, I managed to get 4 luxuries - wine, then silks, then furs, then incense- but to do so, I had to build some towns which overlapped with Greek and Carthaginian ones. In fact, some did not even have access to all the 9 basic tiles.
I stopped expansion when I had 8 towns, because there was no more land I considered useful nearby.

I researched in the following order: Iron Working, Mathematics, Code of Laws, Literature, Republic. On both Iron Working and Mathematics I got a monopoly which allowed me to catch up in tech (and the first also to trade for the contacts I lacked - Spain, China and Babylon). Code of Laws wasn't as good a choice, but at least I did not fall further behind, as I managed to get it around the same time as the other civs, though a few turns later. After the research and trading of Literature, only Polytheism was left to reach the Middle Ages. Once Carthage and Babylon got it, I traded for it with my luxuries and gold. My research for Republic still continued in the Middle Ages.
I got Monotheism as free tech and was able to trade for Feudalism, which was Babylon's free tech. Greece got Monotheism, too.

Concerning war: Greece started a war against China around the time I had settled six of my eight cities, but China is really weak in my game. It is last in score even behind me. Then, Greece chose to fight against Carthage, too.
I joined the war against China because I was able to get Map Making for free by signing a military alliance with Greece. The Greeks also dragged Babylon in, but broke their alliances after less than ten turns; I guess the war against Carthage was enough for them. After that, I also made peace with China again.
Then, I made my own miserable attempt at war. I had five swordsmen and six catapults and declared war on the Greeks. It was basically a very useless war; the most important turn was perhaps the first one - when I captured some unprotected Greek workers. Beside that, I killed some Greek archers, lost three swordsmen and pillaged some improvements in the territory of the Greeks. I also lost one defender (=spearman), but no town.
Greece signed a military alliance against me - with China, still last place in score, with only two towns, and already at war against Babylon, which dragged Spain (score leading!) in around the same time as Greece signed that alliance. (I never saw, yet fought against a Chinese unit and easily made peace with them again as soon as they were willing to negotiate.)
Having realised I could not capture a single town with my few troops, I tried to pillage as much as possible before Greece was willing to accept a peace treaty without me paying anything. That happened shortly after I had entered the Middle Ages.
Throughout the Ancient Age, I was threatened twice, first by Greece (map and 20 gold) [which was actually one reason why I chose Greece as my first opponent in war later], later by Spain (Literature). To the latter I didn’t give in, because Spain was further away than Greece and it proved to be an empty threat, anyway.
Concerning wonders: I built none. The Pyramids & the Colossus were built in Babylon, the Oracle is located in Athens, the Great Lighthouse in Carthage.

The screenshot shows my empire at 1000 BC, only a few turns before the Middle Ages. I'm still at war with Greece then.

Since this is my first Diety level game, I plan on just surviving till Mil Trade.

City's

3950BC Built Sogut N of starting position.
2750BC Built Iznik on the tile SE of the gold hill to north.
2230BC Built Usudar 3 tiles west of Sogut.
1870BC Built Izmit 3 tiles south +1 east of Sogut.
1475BC Built Aydin 3 tiles E. and 1 N of Sogut to try to claim an incense.
1200BC Built Antal a 2 tiles E. and one N of Sogut on a hill to claim horses.

I did not take notes thinking game will be over soon but I made it to Mid.A.

Expansion was very difficult. Sogut build order was W, W, and settler and granary. This granary was later lost due to mis-management of gold. :mad:

Once I knew I could not keep up with research, I just bought most of the tech but I did get to Currency before all and got to same level as others. In 590BC all I had left was const. (7 turns) to get to Mid.A. Did not chase any Wonders.

Lost many warriors to Barbs.:sad: Payed all AI demands and watch Cath, Chinese and Bab take on Greeks. Greeks are the most powerfull and will be my target too. Some day but not now. They have at least 1 army.

I got to Mid.A. between 590 and 490BC. As my free tech I got Mono. and try to trade for Eng from Alex and he is not going to. So I took a chance and stole it immidiately for 3## some gold.:D Going for Feud and then Chivlary.

QSC
6 city's, 2 workers, 7 spears and 2 swords.

I just read some of the posts and think I should not be afraid to take on Alex.

You might want to think about taking on the greeks right now, if you have some offensive forces and they are still fighting the others. Best time to take on an AI is during the dogpile - you can often slip in and take a couple of cities - and you dont' have to worry about a counterattack, because they are too busy fighting the other fronts!