Avatars:

[tab]+%Avatar of Wrath (skin by C.Roland)- Requires 2 Chaos
[tab]+%Meshabber of Dis (skin by C.Roland)- Requires 2 Entropy
[tab]+%The Mithril Golem (skin by Kael)- Requires 2 Earth


Religious Heroes:

[tab]+%Arthendain (skin by C.Roland)- Runes of Kilmorph
[tab]+%Bambur (skin by C.Roland)- Runes of Kilmorph
[tab]+%Hemah (skin by C.Roland)- Octopus Overlords
[tab]+%Kithra Kyriel (skin by C.Roland)- Fellowship of Leaves
[tab]+%Mardero (skin and model by White Rabbit)- The Ashen Veil
[tab]+%Rosier the Fallen (skin by Kael)- The Ashen Veil
[tab]+%Saverous (skin by C.Roland)- Octopus Overlords
[tab]+%Sphener (skin and model by White Rabbit)- The Order
[tab]+%Valin Phanuel (skin by Kael)- The Order
[tab]+Yvain the Wood Elf- Fellowship of Leaves

Civilization Heroes:

Bannor:

[tab]+%Donal Lugh (skin by C.Roland)- General that gains the ability to recruit after he kills a demon or undead, has the Guardsman ability and can cast Hope.

Malakim:

[tab]+%Chalid Astrakein (skin and model by Chalid)

Elohim:

[tab]+Corlindale- Has the Peace ability (sacrifices himself to end all wars between his civs and all other civs except the barbarians)

Mercurians:

[tab]+%Basium (skin and model by C.Roland)- Never one to sit back Basium will join his units on the front line. If he is killed the Mercurians lose their traits.

Luchuirp:

[tab]+Barnaxus- "Living" golem. Barnaxus is able to gain promotions. If Barnaxus has Combat I all golems in his empire have Combat I. The same goes for Combat II - V.

Kuriotates:

[tab]+%Eurabatres (skin by C.Roland, model by Chalid)- Gold dragon

Ljosalfar:

[tab]+%Gilden Silveric (skin by C.Roland)

Khazad:

[tab]+%Maros (skin by C.Roland)

Sidar:

[tab]+Rathus Denmora (skin by GarretSidzaka, Model by seZereth)- Anti-hero assassin (Loki)

Lanun:

[tab]+The Dark Wind- Pirate hero (Loki)
[tab]+Guybrush- Boarding party hero (Loki)

Grigori:

[tab]+Adventurer(s)- The Grigori don't have specific heroes, instead they spawn heroes as great people

Hippus:

[tab]+%Magnadine (skin and model by SeZereth)- Mercenary hero

Amurites:

[tab]+Govannon- Can train living non-animal allied units to cast Dance of Blades, Escape, Haste and Raise Skeleton. (Psychorg)

Doviello:

[tab]+%The War Machine (skin and model by Chalid)- Big, powerful and capturable

Balseraphs:

[tab]+%Loki (skin and model by Chalid)- Acts as a gypsy wagon with a few mind and chaos spells. Loki runs away when attacked, meaning he has to be cornered or surrounded to be killed. (Loki)

Clan of Embers:

[tab]+Rantine- can convert barbarin cities to his empire if he is the strongest unit in that city. (woodelf)

Svartalfar:

[tab]+%Kael Coalbane (skin by C.Roland)

Calabim:

[tab]+%Losha Valas (skin and model by C.Roland)- Gains immortality each time she kills a living unit. (Loki)

Sheaim:

[tab]+%Abashi (skin by C.Roland, model by Chalid)- Black dragon

Infernal:

[tab]Hyborem- Like Basium, Hyborem can be built as a unit. If he is killed the cities revolt and the trait bonus's are lost. If Hyborem is killed he leaves fallout in all tiles in a 1 tile radius.

Illians:

[tab]+%Wilboman- Frost Giant (skin and model by SeZereth)


Other Heroes:

[tab]+%Acheron (skin by C.Roland, model by Chalid)- Barbarian Red Dragon. Immobile, guards the Dragons Horde.
[tab]+%Baron Duin Halfmorn (skin by C.Roland, Model by White Rabbit)
[tab]+%Orthus, Barbarian King (skin and model by Chalid)- Barbarian Hero
[tab]+%Trojan Horse (skin and model by Chalid)- Can transport units and travel in rival territory
[tab]+Typhoid Mary- Can summon plague rats

Fellowship of the Leaves Treant hero that can only be gained if he spawns from Ancient Forests to replace Kithra. (Psychic Llamas)

Do you have some dreamed up for each Civ or are they Religion based? Are they going to be built like before, be freed in quests, show up randomly via Python, ect? I love Heroes!

Do you have some dreamed up for each Civ or are they Religion based? Are they going to be built like before, be freed in quests, show up randomly via Python, ect? I love Heroes!

I want a hero for each civ. Some will be early game, some will be late game. The fact that the civ only gets one and they get them at different times will help differentiate them.

The only ones I have drempt up are listed in the civ thread. Ill try to get them moved over here soon. We need to come up with a lot of new heroes.

Will there be the ability to resurrect a fallen Hero, albeit at 0 xp?

I like the ability to ressurect a fallen hero idea. Make it require a special building to be built (national wonder-altar of heroes), and have them start over again on xp like woodelf said. Make sure that a blood of the pheonix ressurection takes priority though.

I think this could be okay for a pretty high end ability. Im hoping to make players have to decide what kind of magic they want to be able to access by the type of imrovement they build on Mana Nodes. Maybe this would be a wonder that is available only if they have 3 Life Nodes available (along with the other requirements).

I wouldn't want to be an easy thing, I never want players to shrug off the death of a hero.

Maybe you could sacrifice x percent of your population or something to bring him/her back. Something BIG, but not too big.

I like the population sacrifice idea. Throw in the special building, then sacrifice some population, and you're still pretty ticked off if you lose your hero, but you can get him back at a high cost.

3 life nodes sounds like an awfull lot, especially if mana nodes spawn like reagents or mithril. My current game is a huge map, and I have only 1 mithril- though I have 4 reagents now, but that's because I'm going for domination and have 35% of the land area (yes domination on huge is insane, but I figure that the more there is, the more chances there are for things to go wrong-though on the bright side- it's year 500 and I'm on future tech 10 :P). I've played entire games without access to either resource.

I think that we should add in a plethora of heros, weak and strong, each with their own quest.

Mercenary Chief = Build him a horde of experienced mercenaries, and get a lot of gold.
Lord Angel = Destroy the demon civ in hell
Shadowman = Use shadow man to assasinate some other hero
Sir Privateer = Use him to capture much gold in a short amount of time

You could always let the national heroes be the national leaders incarnate.
As far as resurrection goes: If it requires a tech to do, the tech would probably be a fairly late one. That would make resurrection infinitely more valuable to those who get late-game heroes than to those who get their heroes early on. I'm afraid that might screw the game balance in an uncomfortable way.

You could always let the national heroes be the national leaders incarnate.
As far as resurrection goes: If it requires a tech to do, the tech would probably be a fairly late one. That would make resurrection infinitely more valuable to those who get late-game heroes than to those who get their heroes early on. I'm afraid that might screw the game balance in an uncomfortable way.

I disliek the idea of ressurection. If your hero dies, too bad for you.

However, I really, really like the idea of the civ heros being the leaders. !!!

Added Losha using Loki's idea for the unit that gains immortality when it kills units.

I think that the lanun should get two heros. A pirate and his ship.
The ship would be able to sail around and attack any rival at will, without causing war.
This pirate would be an improved boarding party basically.

I think that the lanun should get two heros. A pirate and his ship.
The ship would be able to sail around and attack any rival at will, without causing war.
This pirate would be an improved boarding party basically.

Me too, I also think the Grigori should have 2 since they probably won't be using the religion heroes.

Lots of Ideas:
Grigori 2 is an Assasin that can stealth attack enemy religious units and gets a bonus aginst them. Invisible.

Bannor-A mid game unit that reduces war weariness for your country each time he kills a living enemy. Also, when he levels up a random city gets a celebration.

Balseraphs-A unit with a bunch of unique abilities.
a)can build permanent carnivals in rival cities. +1 happy for the city, and 20% of the city's money goes to your treasury. Building these doesn't kill him.
b)he can build the improvement--groteusque art. Gives all balseraphs UU's that can see it a +25% bonus.

Ljosfar-Make one of the current fellowship heros into this guy, and replace him with another angel, preferably a very powerful late game one.

Lots of Ideas:
Grigori 2 is an Assasin that can stealth attack enemy religious units and gets a bonus aginst them. Invisible.

This will probably be reserved for the sidar and svaltarfar civs which are more about being hidden.

Bannor-A mid game unit that reduces war weariness for your country each time he kills a living enemy. Also, when he levels up a random city gets a celebration.

I think the Bannor hero will be a General unit that gives bonus's to all the units around him. Maybe a defensive boost to anyone in his tile?

Balseraphs-A unit with a bunch of unique abilities.
a)can build permanent carnivals in rival cities. +1 happy for the city, and 20% of the city's money goes to your treasury. Building these doesn't kill him.
b)he can build the improvement--groteusque art. Gives all balseraphs UU's that can see it a +25% bonus.

I like the idea of making the Balseraph hero a non-fighter, an artist who can travel in rival territory's like you say. Maybe with some limited spells.

Ljosfar-Make one of the current fellowship heros into this guy, and replace him with another angel, preferably a very powerful late game one.

I agree, but probably not an angel. Maybe the Hunt as the Fellowships 2nd hero.

If anyone would like a hero named after them or someone close to them let me know what the name is and if you have a civilization you would prefer to go with. Im cool with it as long as it is a fantasy sounding name. I think Loki would be a good name for the Balseraph hero.

But Corlindale, Wilboman, Roland, Talchas, Lunargent and Chalid could all make good fantasy names. Let me know if you want them in.

Interesting bit of trivia, there is obviously a "Kael" in the game already. That unit isn't named after me, Im actually named after him. When I started posting on forums and playing online games I used the name of one of the NPC's from my D&D game to go by. Strange but true.

But Corlindale, Wilboman, Roland, Talchas, Lunargent and Chalid could all make good fantasy names. Let me know if you want them in.

Interesting bit of trivia, there is obviously a "Kael" in the game already. That unit isn't named after me, Im actually named after him. When I started posting on forums and playing online games I used the name of one of the NPC's from my D&D game to go by. Strange but true.
Huh, same for me. Talchas was the name of my character in a mmorpg, and I started using it for forums and other logins. As far as a unit goes, you can use it if you want, but I don't really care.

Yeah, I got Loki from Norse Mythology (duh), but I use it as my screenname in most games.
I think that having the Balseraph hero be Loki would be a nice idea ;).

For the amurites i thought it would be cool if they got a spellcaster hero that was there for the entire game (if he lived). Basically, once they got the first religion tech they could build their spellcaster, and he'd be like an adept but stronger and with the heroic promotion. Then once they got the mage tech he'd automatically get sor II. When the amurites researched the archmage tech their hero would automatically get sor III.

Also, for malakim i had an idea for a Spellcaster riding an elephant. High strength and spellcasting obviously. But what makes him so cool is that whenever he kills a unit (with a spell or in normal combat) the space where the enemy died and all adjacent to it are revealed ofr the malakim player for 10 turns.

I agree, but probably not an angel. Maybe the Hunt as the Fellowships 2nd hero.

What is the hunt? Sounds great and I think it should be the fellowship hero.

I think that both Hyborem and Basium should be extra strong, because it would really stink if they died.

Perhaps the avatars should require 3 of their mana? Its just that I think you would need to specialize your nodes to be able to get one of the final spells.

I think that the meshabber of Bis should also require a fire. I mean look at that aura.

Added Donal Lugh as the new Bannor hero.

I have an idea for the Hippus Hero. What if he were a powerful mercenary cheif that could "summon" mercenaries that lasted for a turn. In addition to this he would get high movement. The super ability is that each time he died you got the opportunity to "buy him back" by paying a lot of gold. If you do he is reborn in your capital. If you choose no then any other opponenet may buy him. If no one buys him he is forever killed, but as long as any player has enough gold this guy will remain, getting bigger and bigger.

For the other fellowship hero, maybe a Druid type with some uber spellcasting abilities specializing in creation, life, and nature magic.

If anyone would like a hero named after them or someone close to them let me know what the name is and if you have a civilization you would prefer to go with. Im cool with it as long as it is a fantasy sounding name. I think Loki would be a good name for the Balseraph hero.

But Corlindale, Wilboman, Roland, Talchas, Lunargent and Chalid could all make good fantasy names. Let me know if you want them in.


Actually Chalid Astrakein was a character I played for some years in a Life Action Roleplaying Game. He might be a descent Hero as he was quite heroic. ;)
He came from an Order of War Magicans which had the goal to uphold balance between the good and evil forces. The Order was loosley based on ancient Egypt Mythology worshipping an Snake Goddess and was split into two fractions that fought against each other merciless. The fraction Chalid was in held the opinion that upholding balance could only be archived by fighting the evil as humans more often create bad thing than good. The other fraction thought that most humans are good in their heart and so the balance can only be archieved by strenghten the evil.
Finally Chalid died when fighting together with his friends against superior forces of werewolve like creatures as he preferred to save two healers instead of himself.

The guy might be suitable for the sun-religion you are planning on the Light release or for the Malakim, and combine fighting power (I'd like to do the model) with some magic abilities.

Actually Chalid Astrakein was a character I played for some years in a Life Action Roleplaying Game. He might be a descent Hero as he was quite heroic. ;)
He came from an Order of War Magicans which had the goal to uphold balance between the good and evil forces. The Order was loosley based on ancient Egypt Mythology worshipping an Snake Goddess and was split into two fractions that fought against each other merciless. The fraction Chalid was in held the opinion that upholding balance could only be archived by fighting the evil as humans more often create bad thing than good. The other fraction thought that most humans are good in their heart and so the balance can only be archieved by strenghten the evil.
Finally Chalid died when fighting together with his friends against superior forces of werewolve like creatures as he preferred to save two healers instead of himself.

The guy might be suitable for the sun-religion you are planning on the Light release or for the Malakim, and combine fighting power (I'd like to do the model) with some magic abilities.

Sounds good, Chalid Astrakein will be the Malakim hero. A warrior/caster just as you said.

Another random thought: As heros are so valuable how about giving them something like a "second chance" or "Lucky" promotion at their creation. It should work like immortality but with a smaller chance say 25%. So if you loose a hero due to stupidity or bad luck you have a chance to get him back. On the other side 25% are small enough to not intentionally suicide him.

Another random thought: As heros are so valuable how about giving them something like a "second chance" or "Lucky" promotion at their creation. It should work like immortality but with a smaller chance say 25%. So if you loose a hero due to stupidity or bad luck you have a chance to get him back. On the other side 25% are small enough to not intentionally suicide him.

Heroes are a pretty improtant strategic consideration. I hate to have something like that tied to random chance. I don't think it would be very appealing for a player to plan to trap and kill an AI hero only to have him reappear.

Hmm year you are right about that. I hadn't thought about having Heroes as primary enemies.. I fear its time to actually play another game instead of making building ^^

But if we take his promotions and XPs from him, it might actually add fun as the revived hero would not make much difference at least in that war. (Exception the Baron...)

Corlindale might be a fitting hero for the Elohim civilization. He's a pacifist mage I've been playing in various CRPG's.

I've been thinking a bit of how to fit him in lore-wise, and I thought he might be a former Amurite who'd abandoned his studies of magic in protest against its application in warfare, and subsequently joined the Elohim. Inspired by their teachings, he went so far as swearing a solemn oath of pacifism, and devoted his life to study of the kind of magic which would help him, and the Elohim, to this end.(I can write some extensive flavour text later)
I view Corlindale as somewhat of a trickster - he uses his magic to confound, annoy and discourage enemy attackers, but never resorts to violence(strength 0). He should have a useful array of spells to compensate for this. I browsed the spell lists for stuff that might fit him and be useful, and found these: Charm Person, spells of the dimensional sphere, Tremor, Entangle and the shadow sphere spells. Obviously he shouldn't have all of these, but at least invisibility and charm person I think would fit him well.

I also thought up a few unique custom spells for him:
1. Pacify - Chance of turning target military unit into a worker unit permanently(probably a pretty low % rating).
2. Disintegrate Weapons - Target military unit has its strength reduced by a % amount by the condition "unarmed". Condition is removed if the unit enters a friendly city with a barracks. Monks, animals and golems are immune to this.
3. Song of Peace - For the next turn, within the Elohim borders, no units can attack, neither friend or foe.

Given his peaceful nature, an enemy civ who slays him in cold blood should gain a reputation penalty with all good civs, possibly also a smaller one with neutral civs.

Corlindale might be a fitting hero for the Elohim civilization. He's a pacifist mage I've been playing in various CRPG's.

I've been thinking a bit of how to fit him in lore-wise, and I thought he might be a former Amurite who'd abandoned his studies of magic in protest against its application in warfare, and subsequently joined the Elohim. Inspired by their teachings, he went so far as swearing a solemn oath of pacifism, and devoted his life to study of the kind of magic which would help him, and the Elohim, to this end.(I can write some extensive flavour text later)
I view Corlindale as somewhat of a trickster - he uses his magic to confound, annoy and discourage enemy attackers, but never resorts to violence(strength 0). He should have a useful array of spells to compensate for this. I browsed the spell lists for stuff that might fit him and be useful, and found these: Charm Person, spells of the dimensional sphere, Tremor, Entangle and the shadow sphere spells. Obviously he shouldn't have all of these, but at least invisibility and charm person I think would fit him well.

Sounds awesome, and perfect for the Elohim. Sounds like he might be a good canidate for the Hope and Inspire spells too. We will probably give him base access to the spheres those spells are in and let the player decide where to upgrade him to see where his spells fall.

I also thought up a few unique custom spells for him:
1. Pacify - Chance of turning target military unit into a worker unit permanently(probably a pretty low % rating).

Great idea for a spell.

2. Disintegrate Weapons - Target military unit has its strength reduced by a % amount by the condition "unarmed". Condition is removed if the unit enters a friendly city with a barracks. Monks, animals and golems are immune to this.

What about having this as a "Rust" spell. I wonder if we shouldn't have it not effect arcane units too but maybe do actual damage to golems.

3. Song of Peace - For the next turn, within the Elohim borders, no units can attack, neither friend or foe.

I may steal this idea for a wonder. Its probably to powerful for a unit ability (unless it killed Corlindale when he did it). But a wonder that lasted for 10-20 turns might be cool.

Given his peaceful nature, an enemy civ who slays him in cold blood should gain a reputation penalty with all good civs, possibly also a smaller one with neutral civs.

I think this would be frustrating and confusing for players who are getting swamped by Elohim attackers and fight back just to have a reputation hit.

I may steal this idea for a wonder. Its probably to powerful for a unit ability (unless it killed Corlindale when he did it). But a wonder that lasted for 10-20 turns might be cool.


Make it a project to get rid of the SDI (if you havent already gotten rid of it).
Actually we might incorporate several major spells that are only active for medium intervalls as projects.

I took Lunargent from mage the awakening. It's a name for one of the towers of magic, the lunargent thorn, governing fate and time magic. If it were to be used, it would be best used as a caster hero with the spheres of enchantment and metamagic. I need to think a bit more before I flesh him out, I still have Oblivion on the brain and must swtich gears a bit.

I have an idea for the Hippus Hero. What if he were a powerful mercenary cheif that could "summon" mercenaries that lasted for a turn. In addition to this he would get high movement. The super ability is that each time he died you got the opportunity to "buy him back" by paying a lot of gold. If you do he is reborn in your capital. If you choose no then any other opponenet may buy him. If no one buys him he is forever killed, but as long as any player has enough gold this guy will remain, getting bigger and bigger.

I like the idea of a mercenary hero. I think we will need to see how TheLopez's mercenary mod fits in and then develop a hero to work with it. I dont know if the hero will be a mercenary, hire mercenary's for cheap, or flip opponents mercenarys. But we will need something along these lines.

For the other fellowship hero, maybe a Druid type with some uber spellcasting abilities specializing in creation, life, and nature magic.

We need something special here. The elves will lose their chop bonus and are going to need something to help them recover. 0 Movement costs in forests?

A few more thought on Corlindale(yep, I think of myself a lot):

I see your point about song of peace. As I suggested it, one could actually be completely immortal by casting it continuously. I actually think your suggestion about Corlindale sacrificing himself to cast it is a good idea, sort of like sacrificing to GP's for a golden age, you sacrifice Corlindale for 20 turns of guaranteed peace.
This would be very powerful when used correctly, but would also have its drawbacks. When en "Era of Peace" is upon the Elohim lands, no military units may be trained, and no apocalypse wonders built(because it would be too easy to abuse the peace-time to construct a wonder to destroy the world while your enemies are powerless to stop it). I'm not sure whether Arcane units should be considered military for this purpose, since they also do non-wartime spells.
Because of these limitations, an Elohim civ would be very vulnerable once peacetime ended, and therefore it should be used carefully(or abused brutally, if you play against the Elohim).

Secondly, about the Rust spell. It occurs to me that most players will likely use this spell to soften up an enemy unit before ambushing it and taking it out, but the devout pacifist Corlindale would never sanction such usage of the spell. The purpose of it is to force enemies to retreat to their own lands and re-equip, buying time for the Elohim. There are two workarounds of this, as I see it: 1. Units with Rust condition cannot be attacked. The weakness of this is that it doesn't really make sense in realistic terms, and might even allow enemies to abuse the condition to travel across hostile territory. 2. Units with Rust condition can be attacked, but doing so will make you lose Corlindale, as he leaves the Elohim in horror of the misuse of his abilities. This would make the most sense realistically, but might be a bit annoying and hard to comprehend for players not familiar with all the lore.

A few more thought on Corlindale(yep, I think of myself a lot):

I see your point about song of peace. As I suggested it, one could actually be completely immortal by casting it continuously. I actually think your suggestion about Corlindale sacrificing himself to cast it is a good idea, sort of like sacrificing to GP's for a golden age, you sacrifice Corlindale for 20 turns of guaranteed peace.
This would be very powerful when used correctly, but would also have its drawbacks. When en "Era of Peace" is upon the Elohim lands, no military units may be trained, and no apocalypse wonders built(because it would be too easy to abuse the peace-time to construct a wonder to destroy the world while your enemies are powerless to stop it). I'm not sure whether Arcane units should be considered military for this purpose, since they also do non-wartime spells.
Because of these limitations, an Elohim civ would be very vulnerable once peacetime ended, and therefore it should be used carefully(or abused brutally, if you play against the Elohim).

Secondly, about the Rust spell. It occurs to me that most players will likely use this spell to soften up an enemy unit before ambushing it and taking it out, but the devout pacifist Corlindale would never sanction such usage of the spell. The purpose of it is to force enemies to retreat to their own lands and re-equip, buying time for the Elohim. There are two workarounds of this, as I see it: 1. Units with Rust condition cannot be attacked. The weakness of this is that it doesn't really make sense in realistic terms, and might even allow enemies to abuse the condition to travel across hostile territory. 2. Units with Rust condition can be attacked, but doing so will make you lose Corlindale, as he leaves the Elohim in horror of the misuse of his abilities. This would make the most sense realistically, but might be a bit annoying and hard to comprehend for players not familiar with all the lore.

Hard to say, especially since casting rust on a unit should cause a war. Otherwise its to easy to abuse by a player running around rusting all the ai's units during peacetime.

We could block Corlindales spells while his civ is at war. So Corlindale is only really useful if your civ is at peace. Im thinking that the peace spell shouldn't block attacks. Instead it should force peace bewteen the owning player and all other civs and cancel all defensive pacts with the owning player (so they don't get pulled right back in). It would be a get out of jail free card to allow the player to escape from a bad situation.

How about making it so Corlindale can only use his abilities while his civ isn't at war with anyone?

Wouldn't that make him fairly useless except for casting peace-time city boost buffs like any mage can?
In wartime I think he would be most at his guard, being very eager to stop the violence quickly, and attempting to protect his people without compromising his own vow, through the use of aforementioned spells.

Wouldn't that make him fairly useless except for casting peace-time city boost buffs like any mage can?
In wartime I think he would be most at his guard, being very eager to stop the violence quickly, and attempting to protect his people without compromising his own vow, through the use of aforementioned spells.

I edited my post, check and see what you think.

I like the change to Song of Peace, it will probably be much simpler to just force peace and block all war-declaring actions.
But I still fail to see what blocking all his spells in wartime will achive. When is he going to use stuff like Pacify and Charm then? Only against Barbarians?
And I do think Rust should cause a war declaration.

I like the change to Song of Peace, it will probably be much simpler to just force peace and block all war-declaring actions.
But I still fail to see what blocking all his spells in wartime will achive. When is he going to use stuff like Pacify and Charm then? Only against Barbarians?
And I do think Rust should cause a war declaration.

You're right, he should keep his spellcasting.

Pactify is too powerful. I think Charm works better for it from a mechanic perspective (Charm just blocks a units ability to attack, and has a chance to wear off every turn). As is Pacify bacially allows you to destroy a unit, the fact that you get a worker back isn't much recompence (especially since the opposing player will usually steal the worker afterwards).

I just added Corlindale and his peace ability. The more I play with him the more I like him as a special elohim unit. The one time ability to drop out of all wars is perfect for the elohim and is a great strategic option.

I just added Corlindale and his peace ability. The more I play with him the more I like him as a special elohim unit. The one time ability to drop out of all wars is perfect for the elohim and is a great strategic option.

Good to hear:)

What other abilities did you give him? Ability to pick the spheres I mentioned?
I'd still like a few more unique spells for him, and in general I think unique spells for caster heroes would be quite cool to have. I'll try to think of some.

Good to hear:)

What other abilities did you give him? Ability to pick the spheres I mentioned?
I'd still like a few more unique spells for him, and in general I think unique spells for caster heroes would be quite cool to have. I'll try to think of some.

He starts with rank 1 of Earth, Mind and Spirit and can learn up to rank 3 in all three along the sorcery track.

I would definitly love to hear any more ideas you have.

For the Illians, I think that their hero should simply be Auric.
Amurites--Maybe an archmage unit that ideally would be able to learn almost every spell possible.

I put in the Agnostic trait (agnostic leaders cant pick a state religion). This is the Grigori's trait and keeps them from having access to any religious heroes. We also removed the force sphere so the grigori palace no longer gives a mana resource, instead it was giving +2 great engineer points.

To help make the civ interesting I brought back one of our old friends that we never quite found a home for, the Adventurer unit. As it stands the Grigori palace will give +2 adventurer points. The Grigori will also have a civ specific building (the Adventurers Guild) that gives +2 adventurer points. Making the Adventurer a Grigori only unit.

The Adventurer is a hero unit that can be upgraded to a warrior, scout or adept. So bascially it is a "build your own hero". It should allow the Grigori player a lot of flexibility and make the civ interesting to play.

I put in the Agnostic trait (agnostic leaders cant pick a state religion). This is the Grigori's trait and keeps them from having access to any religious heroes. We also removed the force sphere so the grigori palace no longer gives a mana resource, instead it was giving +2 great engineer points.

To help make the civ interesting I brought back one of our old friends that we never quite found a home for, the Adventurer unit. As it stands the Grigori palace will give +2 adventurer points. The Grigori will also have a civ specific building (the Adventurers Guild) that gives +2 adventurer points. Making the Adventurer a Grigori only unit.

The Adventurer is a hero unit that can be upgraded to a warrior, scout or adept. So bascially it is a "build your own hero". It should allow the Grigori player a lot of flexibility and make the civ interesting to play.

I was thinking of giving the Amurites an adventurer spellcaster, but you're right this is more interesting.
Also, I was thinking of something that blocks armegeddon spells for a city. Would this work best as a wonder?

I was thinking of giving the Amurites an adventurer spellcaster, but you're right this is more interesting.
Also, I was thinking of something that blocks armegeddon spells for a city. Would this work best as a wonder?

We had the Metamagic wonder that was supposed to destroy active armageddon spells. But we can do whatever you want including:

1. Have a wonder that protected the building civ from the effects of negative armageddon spells.

2. Have a wonder that destroys all active armageddon spells.

3. Have a wonder that keeps new armageddon spells from being built (and cancels any in the process of being built).

etc etc

What if the Fellowship's second hero is a spellcaster?
So far we only have one religious hero spellcaster, and I think one would fit fellowship nicely. Have him get divine 1-2, sum 1-2, and sor 1-3. But only be able to learn nature, creation, life, earth, and water.

What if the Fellowship's second hero is a spellcaster?
So far we only have one religious hero spellcaster, and I think one would fit fellowship nicely. Have him get divine 1-2, sum 1-2, and sor 1-3. But only be able to learn nature, creation, life, earth, and water.

You right, the fellowship could use a Druid hero.

Okay, so I was going to have The War Machine me a high strength capturable hero. But Chalid went and made a model that is so cool that we definitly need to come up with some cool abilities to match its look. anyone have any ideas?

Hmm. I think the ability to raze what it wants to in a tile would be definately worthwhile, if difficult to implement. The ability to only raze the roads in a tile would be awesome, I think. The ability to bombard cities is a must. The ability to bombard an area, such as a 3x3 block of tiles, would be awesome as well.

In melee, flesh-and-blood enemies that engage it could have a chance to be instantly killed in any combat turn, instead of the normal slow-mutual wear down.

Okay, so I was going to have The War Machine me a high strength capturable hero. But Chalid went and made a model that is so cool that we definitly need to come up with some cool abilities to match its look. anyone have any ideas?

What if it leveled the terrrain it moved through? In enemy territory only. Like moves into a forest, it removes the forest. Moves into a hill, removes the hill. Removes mountains as well. (yes, can move into them). Of course can pillage and gets XP from pillaging. Perhaps 2 of them are allowed?

What if it leveled the terrrain it moved through? In enemy territory only. Like moves into a forest, it removes the forest. Moves into a hill, removes the hill. Removes mountains as well. (yes, can move into them). Of course can pillage and gets XP from pillaging. Perhaps 2 of them are allowed?

Wowsers! Like an Industrial Sized road grader. That would be cool as hell and seriously make you want to stop one from coming into your lands!

Cool, sounds like terrain destruction is it. If the War Machine moves into an enemy tile it will automatically destroy all improvements, routes, jungles, forests and new forests in that tile. The War Machine will get xp for destroying cottages, hamlets, villages and towns.

So it will go from Town to nada in one swipe?

I don't think this thing should get a movement promotion option either.

So it will go from Town to nada in one swipe?

Yes.

I don't think this thing should get a movement promotion option either.

I might double its movement penalty, so it can get mobility upgrades but they will only be half as effective for it. Does that sound fair?

I might double its movement penalty, so it can get mobility upgrades but they will only be half as effective for it. Does that sound fair?

Yeah, that would work.

Better make sure if it attacks a city and kills the last defender that it doesn't autoraze when entering that tile!

Yeah, that would work.

Better make sure if it attacks a city and kills the last defender that it doesn't autoraze when entering that tile!

Maybe not always Autoraze, but reduce population by 3 or 4? :)

Maybe not always Autoraze, but reduce population by 3 or 4? :)

:evil: and :cool:

Very nice idea.

I thought a bit about a possible change to the Pacify spell for Corlindale, and was inspired a little by the "Forgetfulness" spell from Heroes of Might & Magic III. Perhaps it could be a spell somewhat akin to "Rust", giving a 50% decrease in strength, but only apply when the unit attacked. This would illustrate the pacifistic feelings the spell would cause in at least part of the soldiers. This would obviously prevent the abuse of the spell we discussed earlier. I don't know how the "pacified" condition should be recovered from, perhaps the "returning to barracks" cure could still apply, this time symbolizing military conditioning and renewal of discipline.

Dammit, I want my own Hero! Someone who attracts Wood Nymphs, plays with Satyrs, and generally loafs off all day!

I thought a bit about a possible change to the Pacify spell for Corlindale, and was inspired a little by the "Forgetfulness" spell from Heroes of Might & Magic III. Perhaps it could be a spell somewhat akin to "Rust", giving a 50% decrease in strength, but only apply when the unit attacked. This would illustrate the pacifistic feelings the spell would cause in at least part of the soldiers. This would obviously prevent the abuse of the spell we discussed earlier. I don't know how the "pacified" condition should be recovered from, perhaps the "returning to barracks" cure could still apply, this time symbolizing military conditioning and renewal of discipline.

Corlindale will already be able to charm opponents, making them unable to attack. Why would he use a spell that decreased their attack power when they attacked instead?

Along the same lines, should the spell that makes a unit unable to attack and has a 10% chance of wearing off every turn be called "Charm Person", "Pacify" or is another name better?

Dammit, I want my own Hero! Someone who attracts Wood Nymphs, plays with Satyrs, and generally loafs off all day!

:D He sits in the cities and everytime you try to make him do something he says "One minute, just let me reply to this thread first" and never ends up leaving the city.

if you would like to name a hero I have no problem with that, but "Woodelf" isn't a very good name for a hero. We could do "<whatever> the Wood Elf" as the name of the 2nd fellowship hero if you would like.

ps what in the world is your avatar a picture of?

Why would he use a spell that decreased their attack power when they attacked instead?

I suppose the only reason would be that Charm will eventually break, and it's hard to foresee when that will happen. But you're probably right.

Charm Person should stay Charm Person. It's an old D&D classic, and most people will be able to easily identify it through that name.

I still want a unique spell called Pacify, though. I just need to come up with the right effect.

I suppose the only reason would be that Charm will eventually break, and it's hard to foresee when that will happen. But you're probably right.

Charm Person should stay Charm Person. It's an old D&D classic, and most people will be able to easily identify it through that name.

I still want a unique spell called Pacify, though. I just need to come up with the right effect.

Im with you. There isnt much maneuvering room between charm person and the negative buff spells we already have. Ill noodle on it too and see if I can think of anything.

Summon Hero?

I was thinking of making the rank 3 metamagic summon produce a permanent hero. The first civ that summons him gets him and after that point the spell is useless. What do you guys think?

That one should be a very special Hero me thinks...
I'd throw the following things in: The Guys Abilities Depend on the Abilities of the Caster. I think with the SDK we can change them Dynamically. So eg. the Caster Has Earth 2 => Hero has Strenght 8 Caster Earth 3 => Hero Strenght 12 and so on. By this means the human Player wont beeline for that Hero too much. We just have to save the changes somewhere...

And I'd like him to look quite magical :)

:D He sits in the cities and everytime you try to make him do something he says "One minute, just let me reply to this thread first" and never ends up leaving the city.

if you would like to name a hero I have no problem with that, but "Woodelf" isn't a very good name for a hero. We could do "<whatever> the Wood Elf" as the name of the 2nd fellowship hero if you would like.

ps what in the world is your avatar a picture of?

:lol: I can see him very good at persuading others. If someone can come up with a good woodelf name I'd be thrilled. I was always Yvain in other games so that would work.

My avatar is the Pied Piper of Hamelin. Or something close to that.

If someone can come up with a good woodelf name I'd be thrilled.

My wood elf ranger in Morrowind was named Aldorien Leranthirr. Don't know if it's good, though. It's really just my generic name for elven druid and ranger characters when I play RPGs.

My wood elf ranger in Morrowind was named Aldorien Leranthirr. Don't know if it's good, though. It's really just my generic name for elven druid and ranger characters when I play RPGs.

Either the first or the last name would work with "the Woodelf". Thanks.

Cool, sounds like terrain destruction is it. If the War Machine moves into an enemy tile it will automatically destroy all improvements, routes, jungles, forests and new forests in that tile. The War Machine will get xp for destroying cottages, hamlets, villages and towns.

I think that they should also level hills. Nothing can stand in their way.

That one should be a very special Hero me thinks...
I'd throw the following things in: The Guys Abilities Depend on the Abilities of the Caster. I think with the SDK we can change them Dynamically. So eg. the Caster Has Earth 2 => Hero has Strenght 8 Caster Earth 3 => Hero Strenght 12 and so on. By this means the human Player wont beeline for that Hero too much. We just have to save the changes somewhere...

And I'd like him to look quite magical :)

I think it would be more balanced if it got once strength for each spell it could cast--12 spells = 12 strength. The summoned hero would get some cool abilities. What if it were a demon for an evil civ and an angel for a good civ. A neutral civ gets a big monkey.

Demon-Higher strength (1.5 points of strength per spell, rounded down), demonic spells. When next to enemy cities can eat its population and summon a lesser demon. Can create entrances to hell. Deals collateral damage.

Angel-All terrain (including water). Some spells. Marksman. Kinda like a holy assasin. High bonus against demons. Starts with command. Gives the city it is in a sheild from all armegeddon spells. High movement and blitz.

Monkey-Not sure. maybe can become a "copy" of any other living hero?

My above chosen Example was not very good i believe..
I thought not only about raw Strength but giving other Abilities to:
Examples:
Caster has Nature Sphere: Hero gains Defense bonus in wood,
Caster has Air Sphere -> Hero gains retreat possibility points,
caster has water Sphere at level 2 -> hero can enter coast tiles,
Caster has Force Spher-> Hero gains collateral Damage
Caster has Body Sphere -> hero gains Additional first strikes
... to be continued

And maybe 5 Raw strength +1 per two spell Sphere promotions of the caster?

I think that they should also level hills. Nothing can stand in their way.

Wouldn't that be a bit over the top? A hill most likely has rocky foundations, the machine would have to be insanely heavy/powerful to actually level a hill, and the process would most likely produce massive earthquakes in all surrounding tiles as well. Of course realism might not be highest priority in a fantasy mod, but to me it would seem a bit odd to have the machine levelling a hill covering many square miles. .

For me it brought out the question, where does the hill go? At which point I considered pushing the hill to the next tile, which although interesting, makes the war machine seem like someone has snuck a bulldozer into FfH. And I didnt want anyone to confuse our awesome death machine with a medieval tonka truck.

For me it brought out the question, where does the hill go?

My idea was that it simply gets pushed into the ground. Just kidding.

I don't like the leveling of hills either. It is a killing machine not a Bulldozer
(and im not sure of the ability to raze forest or dschunglel - maybe add the ability to activly pillage forest to the machine? Maybe as a kind of spell? - this might be usefull for other anti elves units, too)

But for Loki i could genereate an alternative War Machine with a big bucket that always appears when (strcomp(GETPLAYER(humanplayer()).getName(),"Loki")==0) ?

Should Bambur get penalties for traveling in hills? I find it odd that he is.

I think we should include that movement bounus into the dwarfen promotion. It would look less messy, too.

Yeah, good point.

I will see about putting some base abilities on the elf and dwarf promotions.

To make Loki more usefull you could give him the Spies ability to peek into other Players cities.

To make Loki more usefull you could give him the Spies ability to peek into other Players cities.

I just think that he should be able to learn new spells. That way he remains somewhat useful even later in the game.

I'm working on other lizardmen today and do you think the Clan of Embers or the barbarians should have a lizardman hero ?

I'm working on other lizardmen today and do you think the Clan of Embers or the barbarians should have a lizardman hero ?

Nah, Rantine is the Clan hero and he's an orc. The barbarians got enough with Orthus and the dragon (lucky buggers, people are going to want to start playing as the barbarians soon).

I think a hero for Illiians should be Jotun, Or a Frost Giant. A simply reskin of a Warrior. He should be able to freeze people in their steps and have a lot of strength but low movement. Maybe he could make tiles into tundra or something.

I think a hero for Illiians should be Jotun, Or a Frost Giant. A simply reskin of a Warrior. He should be able to freeze people in their steps and have a lot of strength but low movement. Maybe he could make tiles into tundra or something.

I think that the Illians get Auric in his quest to restore Mulcarn...

Did we ever decide on the resurrection of Heroes that we talked about earlier? I thought we had some decent ideas about how expensive it should be.

I only ask since Bambur died in my last game. :cry:

Did we ever decide on the resurrection of Heroes that we talked about earlier? I thought we had some decent ideas about how expensive it should be.

I only ask since Bambur died in my last game. :cry:

I tihnk we were going for some life2 wonder that ressurects the next hero you have that dies. I'll check it into the wonder list.

Bless you my son. ;)

Im with you. There isnt much maneuvering room between charm person and the negative buff spells we already have. Ill noodle on it too and see if I can think of anything.
charm person should be called appathy, there should be a spell called stoopify where the unit can't move and runs away from combat. Pacifism should cause stupification and appathy. Charm person should alow temporary control over the unit.

Nah, Rantine is the Clan hero and he's an orc. The barbarians got enough with Orthus and the dragon (lucky buggers, people are going to want to start playing as the barbarians soon).

I'm in love with the Orc leader Jonus. Could he be put in as a buildable Hero for the Clan?

I want to pillage and raze using his Doll-head mace.

I'm in love with the Orc leader Jonus. Could he be put in as a buildable Hero for the Clan?

I want to pillage and raze using his Doll-head mace.

I doubt it, although not opposed to a little personal wetwork Jonus is to smart to be out on the front lines. Besides we wouldn't be able to get a decent sound effect of the girl screaming unless someone went over and tape recorded Woodelf.

:) *hides*

I doubt it, although not opposed to a little personal wetwork Jonus is to smart to be out on the front lines. Besides we wouldn't be able to get a decent sound effect of the girl screaming unless someone went over and tape recorded Woodelf.

:) *hides*

What a way to start your morning...abuse! :p

I love the Hero concept as you have it. They really make the game more fun.

Have you considered adding a "Counter" Hero? Someone who spontaneously appears if you conquer say half the world's Civs or dominate 30-40% of all tiles? It would be in the strongest enemy Civ...

I'm a regular lurker and avid player of FfH2 and prior FfH. I made one post back in FfH forum that Kael agreed on and i felt special. I absolutely love the mod. FfH was great, but FfH2 is shaping up more like FfH squared.

If the offer is still open i would love a chance to have a character immortalized in FfH2. Here is a someone from my RPG that might fit...

Rook is a warlock from my current GURPS dark fantasy game. He is wary and shrewd and deals amongst the poor, crooked, and forgotten. He moves between cities selling minor spells, secrets, and when desperate taking mercenary work. He has been tapped by the crown’s agents on occasion to do jobs as he is deniable and expendable.
Rook makes use of spirit-focused necromantic magic but refers to himself as a spiritualist as it sounds more innocent than necromancer. For a few coins he will summon up the shade of an old friend, curse a rival, or ferret out a secret. He prefers to be well informed and seeks information both to sell and to use as leverage in his deals. To assist in this Rook has a well kept secret of his own, the bound ghost of a young girl named Medaas. She is skittish, and her childlike comprehension make her sometimes unreliable, but she is invaluable nonetheless.
Rook was born in cruel hard lands on the fringes of a growing empire (Illians, Calabim, or Balseraphs would fit best I think). At a young age it was discovered he was mageborn and he was taken away to the Citadel of Screams where he received training as an adept. Never a particularly gifted student, his cunning kept him alive and progressing while many of his more talented peers were destroyed. On his first ranging his band was ambushed and Rook embraced the opportunity to escape. Since that day he has fled his birth nation and wandered far. His business often makes him enemies and so keeps him on the move.
Rook is a scrawny one-eyed human with the obvious taint of goblin blood. His business requires that he advertise his presence while at the same time remain in shadow. He is not a major power but finds it convenient for others to overestimate his power and underestimate his worth. The horrors of his youth and his nights at the Citadel have soured him to true evil but also desensitized him to more mundane wickedness. Although he would scoff if labeled ‘good’ he finds himself drawn to oppose cruelty. He has seen what life is like under an evil empire and doesn’t wish that nightmare to spread. However, he is primarily self serving and holds no love for dogmatic righteousness either.

Note: Rook did not kill the girl Medaas. He found her already a ghost haunting an orphanage. She hated that others always ran from her. By the time Rook discovered her, some sixty years after her death, she had forgotten her name and living history. She had taken to luring children to their deaths in an effort to find a playmate. She could not understand where these children went when their bodies broke and why she could not follow. As he wasn’t able to free her spirit, Rook enslaved her instead. He named her Medaas, meaning ‘my eyes’ in his native tongue. Over the years ghost and warlock have become friends, and Medaas is the only being Rook fully trusts.

Disclaimer: I know this is pretty dark stuff. I promise i am not a pedophile or anything. This character started as a PC and i only had enough points in magic to enslave a very weak ghost so i got the idea of making the ghost a child so it wouldn't cost as much to point out (GURPS system). The GM liked the story and approved it. Currently Rook serves as a minor NPC in the game i am running with different players. The group has grown fond of him but have no idea about Medaas.

FfH2 notes:
Rook could be a hero adept/mage with the spy ability (i know someone just suggested giving that to Loki). He should probably start with Sorcery but not Summoning. Spirit 1 would fit very nicely but not the other Spirit levels. Of course he should start with Death I and maybe Entropy I.
I think he would best fit the Grigori, but Kuriotates, Hippus, or Lanun would work. He would be drawn to the Sidar to capture their secrets but his death magic wouldn't please them.

If you made it all the way through this long post tell me what you think...

- feydras

I love the Hero concept as you have it. They really make the game more fun.

Have you considered adding a "Counter" Hero? Someone who spontaneously appears if you conquer say half the world's Civs or dominate 30-40% of all tiles? It would be in the strongest enemy Civ...

Yeah, that was the origional plan for adventurers, that they would be rubber band units that spawned in weak civs to help against the powerful.

@feydras
I like this story very much. perhaps we could include him in a quest.

Just thinking about Rook -
Maybe the girl thing is overkill as Jonas already has a little girl head mace. We could substitute in a handful of minor spirits say he captured from an insane asylum. I could come up with a story. This would keep the spying potential and still mesh with the flavor of Rook.

Thanks for the comment Loki, anyone else have any thought about if he seems workable as a hero or not.

- feydras

Any thoughts about changing the prereqs for Gilden Silverick? Right now he needs an archery range, but Elves don't need to build an archery range right away since they get Elven Archers with the Leaves. Maybe a Fellowship Temple would be better used to attract him?

Any thoughts about changing the prereqs for Gilden Silverick? Right now he needs an archery range, but Elves don't need to build an archery range right away since they get Elven Archers with the Leaves. Maybe a Fellowship Temple would be better used to attract him?

Im not sure why he has a building prereq, none of the other heroes do. Im just going to remove it entriely.

Im not sure why he has a building prereq, none of the other heroes do. Im just going to remove it entriely.

Even better. I didn't recall any others having prereqs either.

the grigori adventurers seem a bit over powered
i managed to hook up copper just in time to make the much needed upgrade into an axe man before the nearby orthus arrived(at the city with the copper), then he captured that city... but i put my axeman outside waiting for him to attack, lo and behold he was defeated

a foolish elf civ declared war after orthus took the city on me and moved their commando/cmb 5 warrior near my capitol but then i smashed him with my new axeman, who then went on to pound every single elf city in turn (razed most) with archer and elf busting promos.
then i busted the other nearby civ(forget which) down to one city who was foolishly guarding most of his cities with scouts????, but the point is that i did this all with just my early hero axeman -he was still overpowered in the late age as an immortal but the great number of units overall toned it down slightly

i think maybe grigori heros should get the "heroic" promotion instead of the "hero" promotion(less xp per turn, therefore less promotions)
i could have easily taken the battle off continent early on just by upgrading the other hero i had sitting around for awhile

the grigori adventurers seem a bit over powered
i managed to hook up copper just in time to make the much needed upgrade into an axe man before the nearby orthus arrived(at the city with the copper), then he captured that city... but i put my axeman outside waiting for him to attack, lo and behold he was defeated

a foolish elf civ declared war after orthus took the city on me and moved their commando/cmb 5 warrior near my capitol but then i smashed him with my new axeman, who then went on to pound every single elf city in turn (razed most) with archer and elf busting promos.
then i busted the other nearby civ(forget which) down to one city who was foolishly guarding most of his cities with scouts????, but the point is that i did this all with just my early hero axeman -he was still overpowered in the late age as an immortal but the great number of units overall toned it down slightly

i think maybe grigori heros should get the "heroic" promotion instead of the "hero" promotion(less xp per turn, therefore less promotions)
i could have easily taken the battle off continent early on just by upgrading the other hero i had sitting around for awhile

Thats interesting to hear, most of the feedback has been that the grigori are underpowered. What difficulty were you playing on?

i was playing on noble
-quote "the most balanced level of play"
my axeman had very high odds busting everything on the continent with mobil I combt V anti archer anti elf basic promos
it didn't hurt that the other civ on the continent was defending some of his cities with scouts either

the ai(on noble) just can't compete with the early grigori hero rush(except maybe with "standard" archers)
if i hadn't kept my hero back to protect the best cities once or twice i would have had the whole continent before getting macemen or if i'd given him a city buster promotion instead of combat V
i still could have been crushed by orthus without extremely lucky timing though

I've done pretty much the same thing with non-hero units who got lucky enough to kill orthus then upgrade to axemen or hunters. When you have Orthus Axe, shock, and someone to cover your back, it's easy to take several cities and level up almost faster than heros.
I'm not saying this tactic is overpowered, neccessarily, because its hardly reliable to have orthus attack you early, and survive to carry on his trade.

I've done pretty much the same thing with non-hero units who got lucky enough to kill orthus then upgrade to axemen or hunters. When you have Orthus Axe, shock, and someone to cover your back, it's easy to take several cities and level up almost faster than heros.
I'm not saying this tactic is overpowered, neccessarily, because its hardly reliable to have orthus attack you early, and survive to carry on his trade.

This happened to me in my current game with a warrior who beat a weakened Orthus. He is currently a level 16 swordsmen with two hundred and fifty something XP and i'm only about halfway through the tech tree! Way more than Gilder whom i just got. I am still losing by quite a bit believe it or not, but my uberswordsmen has been supporting my economy by pillaging with impunity. I'm specifically not taking my enemy's (Infernal) cities so he will build more improvements and units to fight. In essence i am farming my enemy to create my own hero. I don't think this is unbalanced, just a different approach.
Other relevant info: huge map, raging barbs, 15 civs, epic speed. Prince level.
Oh, and after he got tough i never fight with odds less than 99% as i am terrified of losing him. This 'strategy' is pretty cheesy i know. I expect it will be much less effective once the AI is beefed up to not use scouts as its primary defensive unit early game.

- feydras

I just think that he should be able to learn new spells. That way he remains somewhat useful even later in the game.


In Norrøn Mythology, Loke wasn`t just a trickster. He was also a shape-shifter, and he spawned some very powerful children. Among his children were Fenris (Fenrir the giant wolf ), Midgardsormen also called Jörmungandr, the sea serpent, and Hel, the queen of the kingdom of death. (He also spawned some more, in a shape-shifting form as a mare he even became the mother :crazyeye: of odins horse, but the three above are the most powerful)

To make Loke more useful later in the game, could it be possible to make him spawn some of his children as additonal heroes/UU`s or have some shape-shifting abilities that could make him useful in combat as well?

Info about Fenris: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fenrir

Midgardsormen: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%B6rmungandr

and Hel: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hel_%28being%29

Loke is also supposed to join the battle of Ragnarok leading a huge army of undeads from Hel against Æsene (the Æsir), so it might be an idea to make him develope into some sort of powerful necromancer?
(background story: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loki )

Just a couple of ideas. Hopefully some might be interesting.

BTW, I love the MOD, great work.

computer lag, double post....

In Norrøn Mythology, Loke wasn`t just a trickster. He was also a shape-shifter, and he spawned some very powerful children. Among his children were Fenris (Fenrir the giant wolf ), Midgardsormen also called Jörmungandr, the sea serpent, and Hel, the queen of the kingdom of death. (He also spawned some more, in a shape-shifting form as a mare he even became the mother :crazyeye: of odins horse, but the three above are the most powerful)

To make Loke more useful later in the game, could it be possible to make him spawn some of his children as additonal heroes/UU`s or have some shape-shifting abilities that could make him useful in combat as well?

Info about Fenris: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fenrir

Midgardsormen: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%B6rmungandr

and Hel: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hel_%28being%29

Loke is also supposed to join the battle of Ragnarok leading a huge army of undeads from Hel against Æsene (the Æsir), so it might be an idea to make him develope into some sort of powerful necromancer?
(background story: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loki )

Just a couple of ideas. Hopefully some might be interesting.

BTW, I love the MOD, great work.

Sadly Loki isn't named after the norse god but our own crazed designer. As such he should probably have the ability to create entire civs and new units but that might be a bit unbalancing. As for his ability to sire giant wolves, you'd have to ask him yourself about that.

Yah it would be nice to have a Loki god in their somewhere. I was just thinking, it might make more sense to have the balseraph hero be a Don Quixote (totally insane of course, with a bonus on windmills).

Instead, loki could be part of a late game questinvolving ragnarok and a giant war between the alignments. After he gets free from his prison (in hell perhaps) he leads the army demons and giants and monsters against the gods.

I have a little suggestion about Typhoid Mary... I think she is a little underpowerd when you get her... alchemy is still a rather late game tech and she still doesnt have a hero promotion... so if you are not planning on giving her that then here is a suggestion:
+give her 1 additional movement point, she does strickes me as an agile hero (since this is a minor change its not very important whether you decide to implement it or not).
+if possible give her the following promotion: Plauge Eater - +60% strengh against plauged or desiesed units (makes sense since her strengh lies in plauging units first).
+the last change is probobly the most interesting one... i was thinking of giving her plauge bearer ability a compleat makeover. It would work like this: when Typhoid Mary attacks the first time she would give all enemy units the "desised" promotion which would drain 15% of its hp and units in the same tile (not stackable of course) and will wear off in 3 turns, the second time she attacks the units whit the "desised" promotion have it replaced whit "plauged" which drains 30% of their health, this promotion will not go away untill it is cured. And finnaly a third attack will cause the "plauged" promotion to be replaced whit "tainted" prom, that drains a total of 45% of the units hp per turn and can only be cure in the city in wich the Aqua Suceluss was built (might be a bit much, since if i imagine myself ever leting it get that far i would most likely just delete the unit myself, less maintenece that way =) ). could be fun if you decide to implement this, would also allow her to be on equal footing whit Halfmorn who currently overshadows her whit his Lycantropy ability and the fact that you can get him far sooner then Mary.

I know these bonuses might sound a bit much but in the current state of the game her whole concept is overshadowed by Halfmorn, absolete by the archmages meteor storm (it is a LOT more useful agains SoD's then Mary), and nearly useless in an actual war since when you want to capture a city you will not want to wait 5-7 turns for the plauge to weaken the defenders of the city even whit the posible advantage of losing less units to make it worth while you will need to attack whit Mary first and since she will likely to attack into a fortified longbow by this point of the game there is a high chance of her getting killed, of course you could use catapults first but that would just lead to the following scenario: catapults bombard a city to make way for Mary to attack, Mary attacks to weaken the defenders, attackers wait 5-7 turn for the enemy to get weakened enough by the plauge and then attack... Now the problem whit all this is that a war normaly needs to be fast, the longer a war lasts the more taxing it becomes for the attacker, making the whole concept of the plauge less usefull. The only time when this can be actualy very effective is when you manage to plauge an attacking
enemy stack, by the time they reach your city they would have already taken a huge load of damage from the plauge unless thay had a healer in that stack.

Again just my 2 sents on the matter.

I have a little suggestion about Typhoid Mary... I think she is a little underpowerd when you get her... alchemy is still a rather late game tech and she still doesnt have a hero promotion... so if you are not planning on giving her that then here is a suggestion:
+give her 1 additional movement point, she does strickes me as an agile hero (since this is a minor change its not very important whether you decide to implement it or not).
+if possible give her the following promotion: Plauge Eater - +60% strengh against plauged or desiesed units (makes sense since her strengh lies in plauging units first).
+the last change is probobly the most interesting one... i was thinking of giving her plauge bearer ability a compleat makeover. It would work like this: when Typhoid Mary attacks the first time she would give all enemy units the "desised" promotion which would drain 15% of its hp and units in the same tile (not stackable of course) and will wear off in 3 turns, the second time she attacks the units whit the "desised" promotion have it replaced whit "plauged" which drains 30% of their health, this promotion will not go away untill it is cured. And finnaly a third attack will cause the "plauged" promotion to be replaced whit "tainted" prom, that drains a total of 45% of the units hp per turn and can only be cure in the city in wich the Aqua Suceluss was built (might be a bit much, since if i imagine myself ever leting it get that far i would most likely just delete the unit myself, less maintenece that way =) ). could be fun if you decide to implement this, would also allow her to be on equal footing whit Halfmorn who currently overshadows her whit his Lycantropy ability and the fact that you can get him far sooner then Mary.

I know these bonuses might sound a bit much but in the current state of the game her whole concept is overshadowed by Halfmorn, absolete by the archmages meteor storm (it is a LOT more useful agains SoD's the Mary), and nearly useless in an actual war since when you want to capture a city you will not want to wait 5-7 turns for the plauge to weaken the defenders of the city even whit the posible advantage of losing less units to make it worth while you will need to attack whit Mary first and since she will likely to attack into a fortified longbow by this point of the game there is a high chance of her getting killed, of course you could use catapults first but that would just lead to the following scenario: catapults bombard a city to make way for Mary to attack, Mary attacks to weaken the defenders, attackers wait 5-7 turn for the enemy to get weakened enough by the plauge and then attack... Now the problem whit all this is that a war normaly needs to be fast, the longer a war lasts the more taxing it becomes for the attacker, making the whole concept of the plauge less usefull. The only time when this can be actualy very effective is when you manage to plauge an attacking
enemy stack, by the time they reach your city they would have already taken a huge load of damage from the plauge unless thay had a healer in that stack.

Again just my 2 sents on the matter.

I think your right and love the idea of giving her a bonus against plagued units. Chalids working on a better way to build anti-promotions (bonus's against units with certain promotions). Maybe once that it is we will use it to give Mary this boost.

I have a hero for you guys. A surprise if you will, and my role-players will be angry I'm giving it to you instead of them.....too bad. When, if you are going to have one, will be the contest you hinted at for designing a hero....I don't have to wait but it is juicey and liberating and if you don't like it I will sacrifice my second settler for my next 100 games...That is how confident i am....squeak

Heya,

I had an idea for the Ljosalfar civ.
How about, because they are primarily elves, but are also at-one-with-nature, they get a treant hero, who can only be gained the same way as normal treants (ie randomly summoned from ancient forests) except there is a 10% chance that he will pop up instead of a normal treant after the hidden paths tech is discovered.

He could have the ability to increase the growth rate of forests (ie change a new forest to a Forest to an ancient forest; and even increse the chance on new forests randomly appearing around him), cast bloom, entangle and summon vines. however, the catch is, that he cannot travel outside of forests or the owners cities.
I think these advantages and disadvantages would make him perfect for defence, and also encorage the elves to plant LOTS of forests so he can move around, however he will be totally innafective against taking enemy citys because he cannot enter them.

So summed up:
Unit type:
~Treant/Dryad type unit
Abilities:
~increse forest growth rate
~New promotion: Woodland Guardian
+100% defence in all forests (new, normal and ancient)
Cannot exit forest (or the owner civs city) squares
Spells:
~bloom (Perhaps make bloom be castable on ajacent squares as well...)
~entangle
~summon vines
~(Maybe summon Treant, but that may over power him...)
disadvantages:
~cannot exit forest or owners city squares.
~(probably another disadvantage, to ballance but cant think of any)

Im not too sure how practical that would be with python and that, but thats my idea that i think would be a nice addition to the elves (hint hint ;) )

Another disadvantage for your treant could be Fire vulnerability.

- feydras

How about Evil Termite People causing civil war in Ancient Forests .........What would Treants think of that..........never mind the Exterminators would just arrive in early history........News Now when Trees have Had enough campfire at eleven.......Ug no I'm sorry I didn't mean it we are going to burn pinecones........honest....

......Just joking.......I couldn't resist today ......But seriosly suspicion of anyone carring an AXE is normal for Treants. "Hey you, what exactly are you planning to do with that........Oh, really!@'

Loki: I really like your thoughts on involving Loke in some quest in the late-game parts. (Maybe when one civ builds a wonder like "Ragnarok unleashed" or something like that).

Regarding Typhoid Mary, I agree that she isn`t nearly as useful as Baron Halfmorn. But how about allowing her to "summon" plagued black rats. These might be used to infect other civs soldiers, but also spread to enemy cities, decreasing their crop yield/income/culture and having drastic effects on the health of any plagued city.

Lorgen: Love the rats idea for Mary. Maybe like strength 2, stealth promotions, some % transmission rate for disease. Can have up to 3 at a time.

Red Dragon, really needs some help. Through promotions, or spawned hatchlings, or whatever...she's too easy to take down. Could be as simple as giving city defense promotion to start, and a couple of flavor units to cover her back when the hp get low.

Proposal: The four horsemen. A late game Orthus, concept. They would spawn based on the armageddon counter.

The white horse and bow: The conqueror, a new civ emerges mid to late game with one city, and powerful troops. Maybe near weakest civ in the game, so they have room to conquer, and starts to replace weaker civ w/ stronger.

The red horse and sword: The warlord, travels the land gathering troops from player lands, and declares war on someone. An ai crusade that you must oppose or donate troops too. This mechanic is already in, but could use some polish. More interactive, and less random.

The black horse and scales - The tax collector. Wanders through the civilizations taxing as he goes, perhaps if you can't pay he takes? Should be unkillable, and undodgeable as far as paying up, or else.

The pale horse and death - Death incarnate. Could be a reaper type unit. Spreads disease, and is immortal. Has a small chance to outright kill opposing units a small % of the time. Shouldn't attack cities, maybe degenerates terrain as he goes, but should wander the lands, not just single a player out.

Lorgen: Love the rats idea for Mary. Maybe like strength 2, stealth promotions, some % transmission rate for disease. Can have up to 3 at a time.

Red Dragon, really needs some help. Through promotions, or spawned hatchlings, or whatever...she's too easy to take down. Could be as simple as giving city defense promotion to start, and a couple of flavor units to cover her back when the hp get low.

Proposal: The four horsemen. A late game Orthus, concept. They would spawn based on the armageddon counter.

The white horse and bow: The conqueror, a new civ emerges mid to late game with one city, and powerful troops. Maybe near weakest civ in the game, so they have room to conquer, and starts to replace weaker civ w/ stronger.

The red horse and sword: The warlord, travels the land gathering troops from player lands, and declares war on someone. An ai crusade that you must oppose or donate troops too. This mechanic is already in, but could use some polish. More interactive, and less random.

The black horse and scales - The tax collector. Wanders through the civilizations taxing as he goes, perhaps if you can't pay he takes? Should be unkillable, and undodgeable as far as paying up, or else.

The pale horse and death - Death incarnate. Could be a reaper type unit. Spreads disease, and is immortal. Has a small chance to outright kill opposing units a small % of the time. Shouldn't attack cities, maybe degenerates terrain as he goes, but should wander the lands, not just single a player out.

I boosted the Acherons strength from 14 to 18. We will see how it goes next time.

I like Lorgen's idea for the rats too, I'll add it to the wish list.

The horsemen idea is interesting, functionally we hope to have the increased armageddon include these sorts of effects though we haven't started detailed design on Fire yet so the specifics arent done.

Heya,

I had an idea for the Ljosalfar civ.
How about, because they are primarily elves, but are also at-one-with-nature, they get a treant hero, who can only be gained the same way as normal treants (ie randomly summoned from ancient forests) except there is a 10% chance that he will pop up instead of a normal treant after the hidden paths tech is discovered.

A possible problem with that is that it forces you to play the Fellowship if you want the hero. Of course, with the Ljosalfar the Fellowship is a natural choice in any case, but still. I think it might work better as a general Fellowship hero.

It's quite a cool idea, though. :)

Hero: Whisper of Malumit:Master Longbowman
Strength 13
Move 3

Promotions Has all the Ablities of the Shadow and the Ranger....Plus Blitz
Robin in the Hood Inspired.......Can get city deffese bonus in Forested areas......still needs more substance.....but I am trying to earn.......forgiveness

Avatar Hero: Whisper of Malumit:The Unicorn King
Strength15
Movement3 or more
Automatic Promotions All Dimension spells, Some of the Spirit and immune to undead and banisment also slay undead and demon

Hew hates evil civs and needs a promotion that will allow him to free slaves and if his contolling civ refuses to help a civilization that asks for help to get rid of slavery he leaves and becomes an AI contolled unit or something.....should be partial to Leaves and Order.....if unicorns are ever created he should be able to summon a herd. This is not a happy unicorn but an angry purge the evil kind.........promotions that should apply that I haven't mentioned should happen as usual..........

To make him you should most definitely have Ancient Forests and Nature Mana Spoirit Mana and Dimensional Mana..............Armagedon Unit maybe..he should be able to teleport after either first defense,Attack,a

You are not to long on these forums so maybe Kael has mercy with you and will not eat you alive:
No Unicorns

You are not to long on these forums so maybe Kael has mercy with you and will not eat you alive:

Sorry Kael..........I had no idea.........that rules out vulgar unicorns too then...........and you are right I am not long here......and I only joined because of your mod...........but if you must eat me alive........."the will of the master is my command and where shall I stretch my neck!"

Bad Holy Berserker on you face and give me a million.............no mercy you should know better.......the mirror just doesn't quite get it and I don't have it in me to be a flaggilator......whips are meant for cattle or at least two.....I changed theat post so you won't have to see it again....I shall start the settler sacrifices immediately! ........ theat post=the/that post to be eaten or get you eaten.

@ Kael: wotcha think of my treant hero idea from before?

@Xuenay: that was kind of the idea, i think it would be cool if there were civ specific heros that are also religeon specific, maybe it would be better to make it so that only nuturals with the fellowship can hav him? i dont see him thinking the crusading 'good' guys are fighting for what he believes, and i definately dont see him with the 'evil' civs. however the fact that the Ljosalfar are fighting to save their existence and their homes (namely the forests) this guy is logical.

Bad Holy Berserker on you face and give me a million.............no mercy you should know better.......the mirror just doesn't quite get it and I don't have it in me to be a flaggilator......whips are meant for cattle or at least two.....I changed theat post so you won't have to see it again....I shall start the settler sacrifices immediately! ........ theat post=the/that post to be eaten or get you eaten.

You are either brilliant or insane. I havent figured out which yet.

@ Kael: wotcha think of my treant hero idea from before?

@Xuenay: that was kind of the idea, i think it would be cool if there were civ specific heros that are also religeon specific, maybe it would be better to make it so that only nuturals with the fellowship can hav him? i dont see him thinking the crusading 'good' guys are fighting for what he believes, and i definately dont see him with the 'evil' civs. however the fact that the Ljosalfar are fighting to save their existence and their homes (namely the forests) this guy is logical.

I really love the idea of a hero that is gained without building. I don't know if a treant is right, but I don't know. It may make more sense than an elf now that we have the elves in as a civ (keeps Kithra from going out to kill his own people).

Im going to check it in to the ideas under consideration.

Cool, im glad you think it could work :)

you could have similar heroes for other religeons, ie some zombie lordthat pops up from swamps/marshes for the Ashen veil, or some king of Dwarf Griffon rider lordy guy that pops up from mountains, or a leviathan (egyptian Sea beast) kind of hero that spawns from ocean squares for OO, or a partly crazy, but very righteous peasant who is acltually some long lost king for the Bannor of something who is relates to their angel (forget the name) who spawns from a farm! (ok, not sure about that last one but hey...)

Although, i think that if every religeon got a random hero, it would go against your philosophy that there should be minimal patterns in FfH, and therefore i just wasted 3 minutes of my life;) oh well...

You are either brilliant or insane. I havent figured out which yet.
When it comes to fine lines and large gray areas I often find the only difference is in application and desire. To hone this more precisely the answer is usually found within the application and desire of the suject/object and the observer.....rheatoricly. Some brilliant people or their ideas are insane given the subject/object matter. Some insane people or their ideas are brilliant given the subject/object matter. This is only one example of the fine line and large gray area theat post.

Lao Tzu "That man that walks around laughing and talking to himself, tending to his own business and that everyone claims as an idiot is the luckiest man in the world." Lao Tzu's friends"That is whom Lao Tzu was before the people realized he was wise."

Cool, im glad you think it could work :)

you could have similar heroes for other religeons, ie some zombie lordthat pops up from swamps/marshes for the Ashen veil, or some king of Dwarf Griffon rider lordy guy that pops up from mountains, or a leviathan (egyptian Sea beast) kind of hero that spawns from ocean squares for OO, or a partly crazy, but very righteous peasant who is acltually some long lost king for the Bannor of something who is relates to their angel (forget the name) who spawns from a farm! (ok, not sure about that last one but hey...)

Although, i think that if every religeon got a random hero, it would go against your philosophy that there should be minimal patterns in FfH, and therefore i just wasted 3 minutes of my life;) oh well...

You understand me to well. But we have always toyed with the idea of having a resource that could only be gained if enough slaves/units are sacrificed. I don't see why we couldn't have an overlord or veil hero that can only be enlisted when you make enough sacrifices.

I think a Sea Serpent like monster (but would also be able to enter land squares) would be really cool

I think a Sea Serpent like monster (but would also be able to enter land squares) would be really cool

I have also thought a bit about this. Normally I don`t find the more advanced seafaring-techs too attractive to research. And why do I need +1 movement rate for naval units? War is commenced on land, and you only need ships to protect your ocean-recources.

So a barb sea-serpent that gurds a huge treasure, like the dragon, would be quite cool. It may also move and destroy fishing boats/ships, making naval exploration a lot more challenging...

The killer of the serpent might get a WW in his capitol (head of the sea-serpent?) granting perhaps a culture-bonus in every city, and a relation-bonus towards every other civ. Or a poison-promotion to all units built by the civ.

And inspired by Loke (I still don`t know about his ability to sire great wolwes, by the way;) ), Loke`s child Midgardsormen might be the model. Midgardsormen: Midgard=Middle-earth(Yes, Tolkien stole most of his ideas from Norse mythology) Orm(en) = (the) worm/snake/serpent

"Thor's fishing trip:

Another encounter came when Thor went fishing with the giant Hymir. The two did not get along, and when Hymir refused to provide Thor with bait, Thor struck the head off Hymir's largest ox to use as bait. They rowed to a point where Hymir often sat and caught flat fish, and he drew up two whales. Thor demanded to go farther, and so they did. Hymir told Thor that the part they were at was unsafe, because of the Serpent, but Thor ignored him, and to Hymir's horror they rowed out further.

Thor then prepared a strong line and a large hook, and Midgardsormen(Jörmungandr) bit. Thor pulled the serpent up; the two faced off, Midgardsormen(Jörmungandr )dribbling poison and blood. Hymir went pale with fear, and as Thor grabbed his hammer to kill the serpent, the giant cut the line, leaving the serpent to sink beneath the waves.

This encounter seems to have been the most popular motif in Norse pagan art. Four picture stones can be definitely linked with the myth.

Thor's foot goes through the boat as he struggles to pull up Jörmungandr in the Altuna picture stone.

The final battle

Their last meeting will come at Ragnarök, when Jörmungandr will drag himself from the Ocean and poison the skies. Thor will kill Jörmungandr and then walk nine steps before falling dead from the serpent's poison."

Kael wants a Sea Serpent model for the barbarians from me for a long time... i just had other things to do first... and still have... but sometimes in the near future...

Kael wants a Sea Serpent model for the barbarians from me for a long time... i just had other things to do first... and still have... but sometimes in the near future...

great news... Really looking forward to it. :)

I really love the idea of a hero that is gained without building. I don't know if a treant is right, but I don't know. It may make more sense than an elf now that we have the elves in as a civ (keeps Kithra from going out to kill his own people).

Im going to check it in to the ideas under consideration.

I suggest looking and an Epic Campaign book from a different game, you know the one.......Elder Treant with a little more for a unique unit and hell Elder Treants would be a great upgrade say 200 to 5ooyears after treants start appearing. The Unique unit would Be the Paragon of its species the reference is my best suggestion....say The GrandFather of Leaves...Maybe a 1000 years after the treants and up to 500 after the Elder Treants .........I like to idea too! Oh gods, the forest is coming after us....whoops you!

I love the work you guys are doing on the Hero units. You're putting a lot of thought into them & making them very cool.

I was fiddling around with the game in worldbuilder to see what each of the current Hero units does/is like/etc. and I noticed that not all the units listed in the first post on this thread are in (like the Lanun, Hippus & Clan Heroes). Is that becuase some aren't done yet?

And even some that are in the game have no Civopedia entries at all, not even blank ones (like the dragons, for example). Is that because you're still changing them?

I love the work you guys are doing on the Hero units. You're putting a lot of thought into them & making them very cool.

I was fiddling around with the game in worldbuilder to see what each of the current Hero units does/is like/etc. and I noticed that not all the units listed in the first post on this thread are in (like the Lanun, Hippus & Clan Heroes). Is that becuase some aren't done yet?

And even some that are in the game have no Civopedia entries at all, not even blank ones (like the dragons, for example). Is that because you're still changing them?

Yes to both questions. I just made Barnaxus yesterday, Magnadine will probably be coming soon.

Kael,

Even if i have no answer about who is Govannan, i give my idea about him.

Govannan:

Mvt: 1
Strength: 5

Channeling I, II, III
Enchantment I
Divine
Sorcery
Light
Spellstaff
Magic Immune
Hero

I think that you would think it's too much for a single man but OMI Govannan is a powerful mage (Divine, Sorcery, Spellstaff ), nearly immune too spells (Magic immune ) but poor in hand to hand fight (Light). I also give him Enchantment I because he is Amurite.

That's my idea....
What do you think about this Govannan ?

The Frog.

Kael,

I forgot this:

Requires : Fanaticism
Unit Category : Arcane
Cost : 300 shields.

The Frog

Kael,

Even if i have no answer about who is Govannan, i give my idea about him.

Govannan:

Mvt: 1
Strength: 5

Channeling I, II, III
Enchantment I
Divine
Sorcery
Light
Spellstaff
Magic Immune
Hero

I think that you would think it's too much for a single man but OMI Govannan is a powerful mage (Divine, Sorcery, Spellstaff ), nearly immune too spells (Magic immune ) but poor in hand to hand fight (Light). I also give him Enchantment I because he is Amurite.

That's my idea....
What do you think about this Govannan ?

The Frog.

Its a stacking of abilities, I need something unique for him. An ability that gives him some flavor. Like Corlindales ability to sacrifice himself to end all wars.

And don't worry abotu not knowing anything about him, I dont know anything about him either, he was created for the mod.

I have an idea for a hero with a unique ability. Doesn't have a name yet so lets call him Visero. He can permanently summon the "Eyes of Visero," inviseble units that can scout enemy territory or hang around important sights in the empire. They can also be consumed toteleport Visero to thier location. He could have mind and dimensional magic. more on this later.

Perhaps Govannans ability could have something to do with mana nodes? At first I considered letting him create new nodes, taking 20 turns or so to do it. But I figured that would mean the player would just use him like a worker, which would be sort of boring. Sacrifice him to cause new mana nodes to pop up all over your empire?
Or perhaps allow him to do some metamagic? Not in the sense of the metamagic sphere of spells, but in the sense of casting the conventional spells in different ways. For example merging the effect of two spells, which could for instance be used to create a Meteor Shower with meteors casting a debuff on their target in addition to damage.
Or channel his spells through other units, which could be anywhere on the map(or just within a certain radius from Govannan, if it is too unbalanced), but they would die afterwards from the powerful energies surging through them. So he could channel a Meteor Shower through a galleon in the waters outside the enemy capitol, or through a lone warrior facing many barbarians in an outlying city. Maybe other mage units have a good chance to survive the channeling.

Another option would be to think up some unique and powerful spells for him. Would be cool with a unique tier 4 spell for each sphere, but that would probably be way too much work for a single unit:)

Kael,

Right and understood. I don't understand before your answer what really mean the word and sense of Flavor. Now, it's all right.

I give you some ideas. I don't know if it's technically possible to do.

My ideas:

1) Because Amurites Mages power is linked with the number of mana nodes they control ( Caves of Ancestors) , we can imagine that Govannan is also linked. His strength could grow by one for each node under control. So, if players want a strong Govannan, they have to be aggressive.

2) As Corlindale, Govannan could sacrifice himself to destroy mana nodes of civ(s) he is at war with. The destruction would be total: mana node disapear permanently from titles.

My english is not good enough to give names to this flavors. So, if you like them, you will have an other task....finding names to this flavor. Sorry.;)

The Frog.

I'm not much a fan of self destructing heroes, um.
but the power in relation to mana nodes idea I like very much.

and regardless, spell caster heroes are the easiest to differentiate from one another :) just give them a unique spell

Perhaps, in addition to being a powerful mage, Govannon could be a teacher of the arcane arts. By this I mean that he could teach the spells he knows to other arcane units. Possibly he could also teach spells (at least first level ones) to non-arcane units, but I'm not sure if this will be too unbalanced.

Perhaps, in addition to being a powerful mage, Govannon could be a teacher of the arcane arts. By this I mean that he could teach the spells he knows to other arcane units. Possibly he could also teach spells (at least first level ones) to non-arcane units, but I'm not sure if this will be too unbalanced.

This is a very good idea and works especially well for the amurites since they are all spellcasters.

I really like Psychorg's idea to teach rank1 spells to other units. If I was going to do it I think I would give him the ability to teach others to cast Haste.

Hians idea to destroy opponents mana nodes could be cool too, really devastating if it is used against you.

I could also see allowing him to consume mana nodes (his own or enemies) for xp and a power increase.

Either way I think Govannon will probably be a late game hero because we will want him to have access to rank 3 spells.

i like Govannon very much! all the ideas presented a great, i especially like the teaching of spells to other units.

How about: He can teach spells of spheres where he has consumed a node...

How about: He can teach spells of spheres where he has consumed a node...

There are so many rank 1 spells that arent useful for an entire army to have. Scorch, spring, charm person (which would just be frustrating), courage, enchant blade, etc etc.

Dance of Blades, Escape, Haste and Raise Skeleton are really the only good ones to have available to everyone. Maybe have him be able to teach any of these if he has the spells?

I really like Psychorg's idea to teach rank1 spells to other units. If I was going to do it I think I would give him the ability to teach others to cast Haste.

Hians idea to destroy opponents mana nodes could be cool too, really devastating if it is used against you.

I could also see allowing him to consume mana nodes (his own or enemies) for xp and a power inc