CTIV-7: King George the First [Archive] - Civilization Fanatics' Forums

ChrTh

Mar 01, 2006, 06:41 PM

Musical Notes in Italics

Turn 0 -- 4000 BC

Put the soundtrack on shuffle starting with Baba Yetu.

I agree that the starting position is primo (although there's a slight temptation to move one tile east).

We have Agriculture (Corn) and Fishing (Fish) to start so that covers 2 of our 3 immediate resources.

Washington is built, the villagers provide us with a map:
http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/4961/ctiv7c7uz.jpg

Yep, we're in the north all right.

Heh, Washington's Music plays next on shuffle.

I decide to research Hunting first. I want us to get Archery pretty quickly (don't trust the AI).
Building a Warrior.

I check the random factors: low sea level, which means more land. Tropical climate, so our starting position is pretty good as we should not have to worry about tundra or jungle all that much (for now).

Turn 1 -- 3960 BC

:coffee:

Turn 2 -- 3920 BC

Sugar to our South.

Turn 3 -- 3880 BC

Cows as well.

Did I say "should not have to worry about jungle"? I lied. The forest appears to extend only 6 tiles south from the coast.

Turn 4 -- 3840 BC

Ok, after the unused opening comes Alex's theme. Foreshadowing?

Turn 5 -- 3800 BC

Washington's borders expand, get a better view of desert to our southwest.

Turn 6 -- 3760 BC

Hunting comes in. Start Archery.

Turn 7 -- 3720 BC

Stone to our southeast, and a lake it appears.

Turn 8 -- 3680 BC

Warrior is built (fortifies). Start Workboat.

Buddhism is FIDL.

Isabella's theme.

Turn 9 -- 3640 BC

That's no lake, that's the ocean! We're in the north, but it looks like we're in the Northeast corner ... we may have plenty of room to expand since we've yet to encounter anyone.

Turn 11 -- 3560 BC

Original theme music

Turn 13 -- 3480 BC

Archery comes in, start Mining

Warrior pops a Hut, the Villagers are hostile! :eek:

Turn 14 -- 3440 BC

Our warrior dies :sad:

Turn 19 -- 3240 BC

Mining comes in, start Bronze Working

Wow, so, um, I didn't meet anyone :crazyeye: ... however, since I explored E-SE while everyone is W-SW of us, that's not entirely without explanation ... still, though -- maybe we won't be crowded.

Huyana's theme

The world that we know:
http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/5347/ctiv7d3ej.jpg

The save:
118198

The 4000BC save:
118199

Roster
ChrTh -- Just finished
Bede -- UP (20 turns)
Methos -- On deck (take 10 turns)
Scowler
Maquis
Conroe

Bede

Mar 01, 2006, 11:50 PM

Got it for twenty. See if I can find some gold.

Bede

Mar 02, 2006, 03:08 PM

Got it for twenty. See if I can find some gold.
Found it and much else besides, not all of it good.....

Turn 20 (3200 BC)
Move the citizen down to the vineyard by the river. Gets us Bronze in 9 and the workboat in 3

Corn, sheep, fish and wine. Fried fish with cornbread and mutton.

Turn 21 (3160 BC)
:beer:

Turn 22 (3120 BC)
Washington finishes: Work Boat

Turn 23 (3080 BC)
Washington begins: Scout
Fishing boat sets sail and start training a scout to open the fog

Turn 24 (3040 BC)
:beer:

Turn 25 (3000 BC)
more :beer:

Turn 26 (2960 BC)

Turn 27 (2920 BC)
Tech learned: Bronze Working No copper in sight Did not implement Slavery

Turn 28 (2880 BC)
Research begun: Animal Husbandry

Washington finishes: Scout

Turn 29 (2840 BC)
Washington begins: Worker

Scout heads south and meets a representative of the Mongolian Empire

Turn 30 (2800 BC)
A parley with the Khan

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a371/doconor/CTIV-7/Kublai.jpg

Turn 31 (2760 BC)
Gold in them thar hills
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a371/doconor/CTIV-7/2760.jpg

Hinduism founded in a distant land

Turn 32 (2720 BC)
Ruh-roh
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a371/doconor/CTIV-7/2720.jpg

Montezuma and a barbarian
Scout runs the other way

Turn 33 (2680 BC)
Lions and spicy bananas by the bay
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a371/doconor/CTIV-7/2680.jpg

Turn 34 (2640 BC)
Lion runs away

Turn 35 (2600 BC)
Lion comes back. So long Scout it was good to know ye! :beer: On a jungle hill yet!
Scout loses to: Barbarian Lion (0.50/2)
Tech learned: Animal Husbandry to send the worker sheepherding and find the horses

Turn 36 (2560 BC)
Research begun: The Wheel as we are going to need roads and cottages to go with the loaves and fishes and lamb cutlets
Washington finishes: Worker

Turn 37 (2520 BC)
Washington begins: Archer need a little more of a defense with Kublai and Montezuma as close neighbors. Not to mention barbarians

Turn 38 (2480 BC)

Turn 39 (2440 BC)
Tech learned: The Wheel

Turn 40 (2400 BC)
Research begun: Pottery

Settler after the archer maybe, and chop the riverside forest to help him along, then plant a cottage. Send the settler southeast I think. There is sugar and gold down that away and it starts the proces of sealing off our corner.

Some nice ground to the south to the bay and horses on the beach to the southwest. Both Khan and Monte came from the south and went back to the SW.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a371/doconor/CTIV-7/Dotmap.jpg

This promises to be one heck of a diplomatic game. With a feather headed Psycho-bunny and the goateed Keshik Rider in the neighborhood.

Roster

Methos -- up (take 10 turns)
Scowler
Maquis
Conroe
ChrTh
Bede -- Fish, lamb found gold and friends(?) :crazyeye:

Methos

Mar 02, 2006, 04:10 PM

Got it....

Methos

Mar 02, 2006, 06:35 PM

Turn 40 (2400 BC)
Washington grows: 4

Turn 41 (2360 BC)
Methos: I send the worker to the river-side forest to begin the chop. It'll finish a couple turns into the settler.

Turn 43 (2280 BC)
Washington finishes: Archer

Turn 44 (2240 BC)
Methos: DC is one turn short of growth so I put off the settler for a turn.
Washington begins: Scout
Tech learned: Pottery
Washington grows: 5

Turn 45 (2200 BC)
Research begun: Writing
Washington begins: Settler

Turn 46 (2160 BC)
Methos: Worker clears the forest and starts a cottage.
Judaism founded in a distant land

Turn 49 (2040 BC)
Washington's borders expand

Turn 50 (2000 BC)
Methos: After the cottage the worker moved to the wheat corn. He hasn't started any work yet.
Methos: The settler will be finished in two turns.

I’m thinking we might want to finish the scout (it’ll be done in two) after the settler. We need to see if we can meet everyone else.

Roster:
ChrTh
Bede
Methos- Just Played
Scowler- Up
Maquis- On Deck
Conroe

Bede

Mar 02, 2006, 06:59 PM

Afger looking at the pictures I don't think farming the corn will help with anything but health issues. Better perhaps to cottage the river bank northeast of Washington, move the citizen wokring in the vineyard up to the new riverbank cottage, then cut some more trees on the hill to push out another settler, and then dig a mine.

Does anybody have a strong preference for the next town site?

I would favor the red dot, or somewhere in that neighborhood. The placement is awkward relative to the coast but I think it will only have one coastal plot in its radius which can balance the oasis food output. Mu other reason for that spot is the lower probability of having to deal with barbarians in that direction as both Monte and Kubbe came from that direction. To the east is going to be barbarian heaven as there has been no or very little movement in or from that direction.

ChrTh

Mar 02, 2006, 07:49 PM

Bede

Mar 03, 2006, 05:37 AM

Good turns, guys. Monty + Khan isn't the best, but it could've been worse: could've been Genghis instead of his grandson, and it could've been Toku. If we're going to favor one over the other, definitely favor the dude that inspired Coleridge.

How do you know the other knothead isn't just across the strait to the east?

And where is Alex?

Throw in Isabella and the party is complete.

Scowler

Mar 03, 2006, 05:48 AM

Don't tempt fate :)
I'll play my turns this afternoon and we'll see how many other psychos I can uncover :mischief:

Scowler

Mar 03, 2006, 10:10 AM

Turn 0 (2000 BC)
- Citizen is transferred from hill to wine to bring Writing down to 2 turns.
- Archer is sent out ahead to scout red dot and check possible alternatives. Seems more prudent to use the archer rather than the warrior just in case something nasty is lurking in the undergrowth.

Turn 1 (1960 BC)

http://img457.imageshack.us/img457/2307/civilization420060303152055850.jpg

- Well, at least we're only "pathetic" and not "forgotten", but I don't like the fact that our nearest neighbours are currently topping the charts.
- Bede is right about leaving the corn for the time being; Washington is already at the happiness limit. However, I'm not going to build another cottage yet either. Instead, the worker marches straight up the grassland hill ready to chop for another settler.

Turn 2 (1920 BC)
- Writing is finished, so it's time to choose the next tech. That stone resource is a bit too far away to be usable at the moment, and we are too busy gearing up for expansion to spend time building lighthouses (though the Great Lighthouse would certainly be welcome...). I also don't see any point in trying for an early religion with a bright-eyed befeathered fanatic waiting to hammer home the merits of Buddhism. Since we have apparently been landed with the neighbours from hell, and we have no copper, I'd feel more comfortable if we could find an iron resource nearby.
- Next step: we sign OB with both Montezuma and Khan. There's no point in keeping borders closed at this stage as there is no opportunity to block them off. They are pleased with each other, so no diplomatic risk there, and if anyone more congenial turns up later we can always cancel after 10 turns. More importantly, it might - just might - help keep them off our backs for a while.
- Settler is finished so he gets kicked out after the archer, heading for red dot.
- Scout is ready in 2 turns, and the worker starts chopping (3 turns).

Turn 3 (1880 BC)
Washington finishes: Scout

Turn 4 (1840 BC)
- New York is founded with a nasty right on the doorstep! :eek:

http://img457.imageshack.us/img457/2235/civilization420060303152708532.jpg

Good to see some pigs in the vicinity as well.
- Scout sets out to explore and another settler is started
New York begins: Archer
Archer defeats (2.28/3): Barbarian Warrior

Turn 5 (1800 BC)
:coffee:

Turn 6 (1760 BC)

http://img457.imageshack.us/img457/3528/civilization420060303153123450.jpg

:rolleyes:

Well, he, Montezuma, and Khan are all good buddies so I open borders with Mao as well.
Worker starts building a road to connect New York and the horses.

Turn 7 (1720 BC)
:coffee:

Turn 8 (1680 BC)
:coffee:

Turn 9 (1640 BC)
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c315/Scowler894/Toilet.gif

Turn 10 (1600 BC)
- Iron Working due in 2 turns. Washington is currently set up so that the settler is finished the turn after; if there is any iron nearby it can be grabbed right away. Failing that, yellow dot still seems like the best option. Obviously we will want an archer to chaperone as soon as possible.

http://img457.imageshack.us/img457/9563/civilization420060303154155453.jpg

- Scout has been dodging barbs (there seem to be quite a few about) so has not got far. No sign of any other civs yet. Montezuma, Khan, and Mao are still pleased with each other but only cautious with us. Needless to say, we are somewhat lacking in oomph:

http://img457.imageshack.us/img457/6070/civilization420060303154536355.jpg

The save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/CTIV-7_BC-1600.Civ4SavedGame)

ChrTh

Mar 03, 2006, 10:17 AM

Roster:
ChrTh
Bede
Methos
Scowler > Just Played
Maquis > Up
Conroe > On Deck

Maquis

Mar 03, 2006, 06:34 PM

Got it, I'll be playing in the next couple of hours.

Maquis

Mar 04, 2006, 05:37 AM

Turns done. Not too much to report. I set research to Alphabet after IW came in. Barbs are starting to pop up more frequently.

Turn 60 (1600 BC)

Turn 61 (1560 BC)
Tech learned: Iron Working
New York grows: 2

Turn 62 (1520 BC)
Research begun: Alphabet
Washington finishes: Settler

Turn 63 (1480 BC)
Washington begins: Archer

Turn 64 (1440 BC)

Turn 65 (1400 BC)

Turn 66 (1360 BC)

Turn 67 (1320 BC)
Washington finishes: Archer

Turn 68 (1280 BC)
Washington begins: Barracks
Washington grows: 6
New York finishes: Archer

Turn 69 (1240 BC)
New York begins: Library
Comment: New York needs culture to get border expansion...
New York grows: 3
Archer defeats (3.00/3): Barbarian Archer

Turn 70 (1200 BC)
Archer defeats (0.12/3): Barbarian Warrior

IW came in, and we find one source of iron nearby:

http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/1432/yellow8mm.jpg

That should solidify yellow dot. The next settler should be going there.

Also, I spot where some of our barb problems are coming from:

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6281/barb6jf.jpg

Oh, and just to make the diplomatic trifecta... I meet Isabella in the SE.

http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/2885/izzy9gm.jpg

At this point, I just wonder how long it is until we meet Tokagowa? :crazyeye:

Here's the save:

ChrTh

Mar 04, 2006, 07:08 AM

I set research to Alphabet after IW came in. Barbs are starting to pop up more frequently.

Are you planning on meeting the Barb threat with Letters? :crazyeye: ;)

At this point, I just wonder how long it is until we meet Tokagowa?

Not. Funny. ;)

Roster:
ChrTh > On Deck
Bede
Methos
Scowler
Maquis > Just Played
Conroe > Up

ChrTh

Mar 04, 2006, 07:18 AM

What's the settler in Washington waiting for, a couple troops?

Methos

Mar 04, 2006, 07:23 AM

A few comments:

DC is current starving due to un angry citizen. Move a citizen to the sheep so we don’t lose any population.
We need to get one of NY’s archers to the iron city just in case of barbs. One thing, should we worry too much about fog gazers since we’re playing a Pangaea? It seems like every continents SG I’ve played we’ve always ended up alone on our landmass, so I’m uncertain about barb activity on Pangaea.
We have three wine resources inside our borders, with a fourth that will eventually fall into them. Once we get Alphabet I suggest trading our way as close to Monarchy as possible and researching it fairly early. Since we’re going the diplomatic route trading our wines off early would really help us relations wise.
How soon should we go after that barb city? I’m thinking not too long after we get the Iron connected.
We have Open Borders with everyone except Izzy. Might as well sign them with her too.
BTW, our scout is toast. There is a barb archer adjacent to both our scout and one of Izzy’s warriors. And since her warrior is a combat II hiding in the forest and we’re in the wide open, yeah, we’re toast. Looking at it more, we might not be. The archer is sitting on a goody hut and may, like in Meth01, sit there until attacked.

ChrTh

Mar 04, 2006, 07:26 AM

It looks like Washington was starving because of the Barb Attack that just occurred (can't work tiles with enemy troops). Governor should auto-readjust next turn, but yeah, it can be changed now.

EDIT: In terms of the barb city, you know ... maybe we should leave it. Isabella and Kublai may settle in that direction, and it'll effectively slow them down in getting into our neck of the world. Now, if we decide to head out that way ourselves, well, yeah, :hammer:

Also note that even though yellow dot breaks off our section from the rest of the world, the AI will still send settlers through our open borders. Perhaps we should cancel them until we're done settling? Or will that cause a diplo penalty?

Methos

Mar 04, 2006, 07:31 AM

Also note that even though yellow dot breaks off our section from the rest of the world, the AI will still send settlers through our open borders. Perhaps we should cancel them until we're done settling? Or will that cause a diplo penalty?

I'm not sure on this. I believe we cancel deals after eight or ten turns without taking a penalty, but I'm not entirely sure. Anybody know?

Maquis

Mar 04, 2006, 07:39 AM

What's the settler in Washington waiting for, a couple troops?

Yes, I left it there for an archer escort (because of the barbs... and last turn I had to send the archer out b/c a barb was about to pillage our sheep. He can escort the settler ASAP.

DC is current starving due to un angry citizen. Move a citizen to the sheep so we don’t lose any population.

This was a :smoked: on my part, I forgot to turn on avoid growth for DC and it grew into anger. It's up to the next person, if they want to starve off the angry citizen, or MM DC to continue growth with the angry. (I didn't see any quick means of getting a :)

The archer is sitting on a goody hut and may, like in Meth01, sit there until attacked.

Yup, that's the case. (lucky us) the archer will sit on the hut.

I went with Alphabet, simply because I thought we would want to try to be able to trade techs with the AI. I agree with Methos, we should try to get to Monarchy soon, so that we can use/trade the wines.

Scowler

Mar 04, 2006, 08:04 AM

We have Open Borders with everyone except Izzy. Might as well sign them with her too.

I disagree. Monty and Mao are Buddhist; Izzy is Hindu. How long will it be before one of them dials us up with a "It cannot be tolerated..." demand? Better to cancel all open borders...

I'm not sure on this. I believe we cancel deals after eight or ten turns without taking a penalty, but I'm not entirely sure. Anybody know?

...which can be done safely after 10 turns. Also, if a religion spreads to one of our cities it's probably better not to adopt it until we have a better idea of how the various factions shape up.

I forgot to turn on avoid growth for DC

That shouldn't be necessary. If you simply remove the appropriate citizen from the workable area (i.e. don't reassign him at all) it halts growth and gives a small production bonus. From experience, it seems that "avoid growth" is too easy to forget about in SGs

Conroe

Mar 04, 2006, 04:01 PM

I've got it for 10 turns. Unless someone objects, I'll send the Settler down to yellow dot.

Conroe

Mar 04, 2006, 10:29 PM

Situation Assessment: It is 1200BC and we have 2 cities. To improve those 2 cities, we have a grand total of 1 worker. We are playing a financial civ and our worker has built exactly 0 cottages.

Washington, our capitol, is currently unhappy. The city governor is turned off. It does have 3 food resources, sheep, fish, and corn, making it a prime whipping site. It has currently built 1/3rd of a Barracks.

New York, our other city, has been built in the middle of a desert. In order to access its lone food resource, some pigs, it will need a border expansion. It currently has a Library queued up with no hammers yet invested. Also sitting in the queue is a Barracks that has 1 turn's worth of hammers invested.

While a library is not a bad idea, we can get a border expansion quicker by researching mysticism and whipping the Obelisk. If my math is correct, we can whip the Obelisk in 6 turns, whereas it will take 13 turns to whip the Library. The Obelisk will expand the borders in 10 turns, while the Library will expand the borders in only 5. That is a savings of only 2 turns; I'm not sure if that is worth diverting our current research.

On second thought, maybe it is worth it. I ran some numbers in Excel. (And hopefully they are right). Basically, we can whip a Library and build a Worker in 19 turns. However, we can whip an Obelisk and build 2 Workers in 18 turns. And we could sure use more Workers!

We are currently researching Alphabet with 9 turns remaining. We have 13 gold and are adding to it at +1gpt with 90% on the research slider.

Objectives: Founding a city at yellow dot is the priority. After that we are going to need Workers and Archers. Hopefully, I can get the next person setup to build some Settlers.

Turn 0 - 1200BC: First thing to do is stop the starvation in DC. It is down to only 1 food in the storage bin. Next, I override the Library in NY for a Worker. Research is preempted to Mysticism.

And lastly, we revolt to Slavery! I find it ironic that use of the whip will improve the citizen's happiness.

IBT: A barb Warrior steps out of the fog heading towards DC.

Turn 1 - 1160BC: I :whipped: the Barracks in Washington. The angry citizen is now gone. I turn on the avoid growth button to prevent the city growing into unhappiness again.

Turn 2 - 1120BC: Washington completes the Barracks. There is enough overflow to build an Archer, as well.

Turn 3 - 1080BC: Washington completes the Archer and starts another one. Meanwhile, that barb Warrior is in position to attack next turn.

IBT: Our newest Archer takes a few licks, but the barb Warrior is toast.

Turn 4 - 1040BC: Mysticism comes in and research resumes on the Alphabet. The Worker in NY is preempted for an Obelisk.

Boston, aka Yellow Dot, is founded. Work begins on an Obelisk.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/CTIV-7_1040BC_Boston.JPG

Turn 5 - 1000BC: :whipped: the Obelisk in New York.

Turn 6 - 975BC: :coffee: er, uh, no, wait make that a :beer: instead.

Turn 7 - 950BC: Washington trains an Archer and starts another one.

Turn 8 - 925BC: more :beer:

Turn 9 - 900BC: We meet Cyrus, whose troops are apparently visiting the Chinese city of Shanghai.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/CTIV-7_900BC_MeetCyrus.JPG

IBT: A barb Archer steps onto a hill outside of New York.

Turn 10 - 875BC: Washington completes the Archer and starts on a Settler. It should be able to be whipped in about 6 or 7 turns. Meanwhile, New York completes the Worker and starts another one.

After 10 turns, here is what our empire looks like:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/CTIV-7_875BC_OurEmpire.JPG

Unfortunately, I did not get a whole lot done this set of turns. While I did get Boston in place, the iron is still not even close to being hooked up. It still needs a mine and the road needs to be built between New York and Boston. Oh, and that unit on the hill SE of New York is a barb Archer. I'm not sure if he is going to go after NY or our road crew Worker.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/CTIV-7_875BC_TheWorld.JPG

Honestly, I don't think the barbs are going to be much of a factor for too much longer. The AI's are expanding toward us which will eliminate the fog of war. I'm thinking the best thing we can do right now is to start spamming Settlers. If we hurry, we can get 2 or 3 cities down south, from the gems to the bananas, all the way back up to the flood plains of New York.

Here is a better picture if someone wants to do up a dot map. I took a shot at it, but frankly, I didn't really care for what I was coming up with.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/CTIV-7_875BC_DotMap.JPG

I think our priority should be the area to the south. Once that is filled in, then we can start on the land to the east of DC. Personally, I think we should just keep building cities even if it does torch us financially. Hopefully, we can research/trade our way into Code of Laws and build Courthouses before we are totally out of money. This empty land isn't going to be around for too much longer.

ChrTh

Mar 05, 2006, 07:52 AM

Roster
ChrTh -- UP
Bede -- On deck
Methos
Scowler
Maquis
Conroe -- Just finished

ChrTh

Mar 06, 2006, 11:11 AM

Bede, can you swap? I don't think I'll be able to get to it until Wednesday.

Let me know.
Thanks

Bede

Mar 06, 2006, 03:08 PM

Take the swap. Play it tomorrow, or maybe tonight.

Bede

Mar 07, 2006, 06:55 PM

Here you go Chris!

Turn 80 (875 BC)
I really wanted to move the archer off the hill into the jungle NE to tempt the barbarian into a premature attack into the jungle but no movement is left.

Turn 81 (850 BC)
Isabellaa came seeking an open borders agreement but I bid her farewell without a commitment as I want to check the state of play. The injured barbarian moves into the jungle at New York.

Send the scout through the borders of Xian just to get a look at the town, put it on the map so to speak.

Worker is mining the iron at Boston.

And the archer at Washington heads east for some FOW gazing.

Turn 82 (825 BC)
Great Lighthouse is built in a far away land
The scout discovers a Chinese Expedition which is vectored towards the barbarian state in the south.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a371/doconor/CTIV-7/825.jpg

Tech learned: Alphabet. I have made no trades and we still hold the monoply. I wouldn't make any deals until we can get reasonable recompense for the tech and anything we want (Math and Metal) are not on offer yet.

The tactical situation at New York.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a371/doconor/CTIV-7/825_01.jpg

Archer defeats (0.96/3): Barbarian Archer

The barbarian chooses to attack the archer on the hill SE of Boston. He chose unwisely.

Turn 83 (800 BC)
Research begun: Mathematics. I am aiming for Calendar so we can make use of the resources and luxuries we have to trade to our friends. Given the proportions of health to happiness in the realm we can afford to trade off helathy resources to the good Buddhist buddies which means everyone but Isabella and Cyrus. I think keeping the Jewess Isabella isolated is going to be our best choice here, So I am hoping for some Buddhist missionaries to show up soon. Mao and Monte are Buddhist, Kublai remains a pagan as does Cyrus. WE do not want a State Religion, however, ever, but we could use the happiness benefits of temples and cathedrals at some point.

Instead of making for the barbarian city the Chinese turn west :confused:

Put the whip to the citizens of Boston.

Boston finishes: Obelisk

Turn 84 (775 BC)
AH. The Chinese were merely moving to the cleaner ground south of Xian rather than running their Chariot through the jungle

New York finishes: Worker who first runs a road then turns to the floodplain south to plant a cottage. The worker chopping the forest at New York has moved back up to Washington and is building a grassland cottage on the river after running a road to the river so that when the worker at Boston finishes the pasture and mining and roading the gold he only has to run a couple of road segments north to connect them and the iron to the trade network.

Turn 85 (750 BC)
New York's borders expand

Turn 86 (725 BC)
Watching workers work and clearing the fog to the east while the scout heads down to check out the barbarian city. He finds only one archer in town but will probably get killed soon (though he is in a jungle for protection)

Turn 87 (700 BC)
:coffee:

Turn 88 (675 BC)
Much time spent lookng for settlement spots south and I have marked a couple in the file.

Turn 89 (650 BC)
Washington finishes: Settler who heads south to the spot south of New York. It is close to the barbarians but he will not be alone and Washington is now training a charioteer for the attack on the barbarians. WE could use the money.

Turn 90 (625 BC)
Washington begins: Chariot but is set to high growth mode until we can get the last citizen to work. Then the town will have to be realigned for hammers and coins

If you don't care for my choice of locations for the settler, please change his direction. He is currently in the middle of things and can go anywhere you like except NE

ChrTh

Mar 09, 2006, 02:32 PM

Hey guys, sorry about going invisible there. I have it, I'll be playing either tonight or tomorrow night.

ChrTh

Mar 10, 2006, 05:47 PM

Sorry for the game slowdown guys, totally my fault. Let's see if we can get moving again ...

Turn 0 -- 625 BC

It looks like everyone has gone Buddhist on us (except Izzy).

Goal for this turn: Get one new city going and get another settler ready to go.

I don't trade Alphabet yet, but I trade Writing to Lizzy for Sailing (we need it for Calendar). This doesn't hurt relations with anyone.

Everything else looks good. I hit ENTER.

Turn 1 -- 600 BC

:coffee:

Change science to 90% (-1gpt) to save a turn on Math.

Turn 2 -- 575 BC

Scythian is now a Red Square! It has been captured by the Chinese Empire. This, of course, means that the next city will be our last in this direction; the more SE city spot looks untenable because we can't defend it at this juncture.

Pyramids BIFAL.

Turn 3 -- 550 BC

The game doesn't like Bede's city site ... it looks the hill on the other side of the river. I agree; it will have spices and bananas and more forests to work. (If it makes you feel better, the computer likes your other choice)

Turn 4 -- 525 BC

The borders of Boston have expanded.

Turn 5 -- 500 BC

Mathematics comes in; start Calendar (due in 15 at +1gpt). Monty has it (but won't trade it), no one else does.

Philadelphia is built, starts Obelisk.

Mao has a Settler on a Galley. I cancel Open Borders with him.

Turn 6 -- 475 BC

Washington: Chariot > Settler
New York: Barracks > Archer

Turn 7 -- 450 BC

Boston now connected to rest of Empire; Iron is available everywhere, soon Gold will be.

Montezuma has declared on Cyrus! WOW, that's Early for AI War, isn't it?? They're both Buddhist, won't that also kill their happiness?

If we're forced to take a side, choose Monty. He's more popular with Mao and Kublai (Isabella doesn't like Monty, but she doesn't even know Cyrus).

Turn 8,9,10 -- 425 BC - 375 BC

:coffee:

Mao now has Calendar, won't trade it.

Ok, things are getting tight in our Southwest:
http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/9899/ctiv7e6hg.jpg

I placed a Chariot on a hill as a sentry; we may want to consider sending a Settler there if possible (although it would cause "close borders sparking tension" with Kublai, and we might not want that).

We need to Settler spam, I think, if we want to do well in this game. We should be able to fit 3 more cities in our east, and the land to the SE of Boston may be an island; if we could settle there as well that would be good (although make sure it's tenable to defend). Gold will be online next turn (waiting on a road) and we will be able to grow Washington to 6 and the rest to 5 (unless whipped); this will help with any financial issues that result from settling quickly, as more tiles worked = more finances.

I haven't done any tech trading (outside of grabbing Sailing); Metal Casting is still only Kublai and he still won't trade it.

Here's the Save:
119226

Roster
ChrTh -- Just finished
Bede
Methos -- UP
Scowler -- On deck
Maquis
Conroe

ChrTh

Mar 10, 2006, 05:50 PM

One thing I want to point out:

Mao has a Settler on a Galley. I cancel Open Borders with him.

Keep an eye on the coast west of New York. If Kublai or Monty send a galley, you'll want to do the same ... until we've settled our land east, of course. Unfortunately, I don't think there's anything we can do to block Izzy from coming up the east coast.

Methos

Mar 10, 2006, 05:50 PM

Got it, and will play tomorrow. Haven't had a chance to read ChrTh's report yet.

Methos

Mar 11, 2006, 08:17 PM

I don’t really know if it helps that much, but figure I’ll do it anyway. Currently research is set at 80% (+1 gpt) and will be done in 8 turns. This earns us a total of 8 gold. If I set research at 0% (+33 gpt) for 2 turns (total of 66 gold) and then switch research to 100% (-8 gpt) for 6 turns (loss of 48 gold) we’ll still complete Calendar in eight turns. Only difference is we’ll be up 18 gold rather than 8 gold.

Turn 100 (375 BC)
New York finishes: Archer

Turn 101 (350 BC)
New York begins: Axeman
Archer promoted: City Garrison I
Methos: Kublai comes asking for Alphabet. I hate to say no, but I don't feel we should give up our monopoly just yet. This grants us a -2 penalty to our relations.
Boston finishes: Barracks

Turn 102 (325 BC)
Boston begins: Settler
Methos: I set research at 100%; earning us -9 gpt and Calendar done in six turns.

Turn 105 (250 BC)
New York grows: 5
Philadelphia grows: 2

Turn 107 (200 BC)
Tech learned: Calendar
Washington finishes: Settler
New York finishes: Axeman
Confucianism founded in a distant land

Turn 108 (175 BC)
Washington begins: Work Boat
New York begins: Axeman
Research begun: Currency

Well, I’m not really sure if going the 0% and 100% really helped that much. After the eight turns we’re completed I ended up with 11 gold extra, rather than the 18 gold as expected. Turns out we’re running high with unit upkeep. It’s still 3 gold more than running at 80%, and I’m guessing we probably gained more beakers too. In case you’re wondering why I did this, it was based off of an article I read a couple of weeks ago and haven’t gotten around to testing. It’s called Micromanagement is Alive and Well (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=159109) (scroll down to the Binary Science Rate section).

I stopped here for several reasons:
I wasn’t for sure what to research, and didn’t recall any discussion on it.
A settler just completed and I’m uncertain as to where to head too. I’ve attached a couple screenshots below for discussion.

And a few notes:
It would be great if we could mine the two plains hills near NY. This city will make an excellent production city.

119345

We need to get a worker down to Philly to start cottaging the river tiles.
Now that we have researched Calendar we can improve our happiness by two with our sugar and spice that’ll make everything nice.
We still have an Alphabet monopoly.

The next player can either play my remaining two turns plus their own, or I can finish. It doesn’t matter to me. I’ve added the save so everyone can look at it, or if the preference is to pass it off.

Roster:
ChrTh
Bede
Methos- Just Played
Scowler- possibly Up
Maquis- On Deck
Conroe

Methos

Mar 11, 2006, 08:24 PM

A couple ideas I had for possible city sites.

1.) Just north of the wine east of DC. This would auto bring in the wheat allowing the new city to grow rapidly right from the start (once we improved that tile anyway). This site would also allow the sheep to come into the city borders after one expansion.
2.) I also like just north of the iron. This site would have the iron, crab, and sheep all within its fat cross.
3.) I wouldn't mind settling near the stone but don't see enough of an advantage to settler it first.

I'm really curious about that island (with the corn) east of Boston. I'm wondering just how big it is.

DC currently has a work boat in the queue to work the crabs to the east. I was originally thinking of settling #2 before I decided to discuss it with the group first.

Bede

Mar 11, 2006, 09:43 PM

Spot 2 is good. The site norh of the wine is bland.

Shift the archer in the jungle to the point just south of him. There seems to be a pretty fair spot down that a way and he would get a look at the straits while he's at it.

I would take the path to Monarchy for the wineries and the MP benefit.

Lastly, with the kind of out put coming from New York I would take settlers and workers with troop training in between.

Conroe

Mar 12, 2006, 12:05 PM

1.) Just north of the wine east of DC. This would auto bring in the wheat allowing the new city to grow rapidly right from the start (once we improved that tile anyway). This site would also allow the sheep to come into the city borders after one expansion.
2.) I also like just north of the iron. This site would have the iron, crab, and sheep all within its fat cross.
3.) I wouldn't mind settling near the stone but don't see enough of an advantage to settler it first.
I would agree with you and Bede that site #2 is the best of the three. Since our objective is a diplomatic victory, we are going to need all three sites, though.

I'm really curious about that island (with the corn) east of Boston. I'm wondering just how big it is.

DC currently has a work boat in the queue to work the crabs to the east. I was originally thinking of settling #2 before I decided to discuss it with the group first.Well, if we are really curious about the corn island and believe that it can be a good site, then lets go after it. May I suggest that we whip a Galley rather than a Work Boat in DC. We can then grab the island with the Settler that is being trained in Boston.

I would take the path to Monarchy for the wineries and the MP benefit.I would agree with this research path. Unfortunately, I'm not sure that researching Calendar was the right move, though. True, it opens up our sugar and spice for happiness and allows us to trade our extra sugar. But, it obsoletes the Obelisk, which is a cheap border expansion since we do not have a religion.

Speaking of which, Philly is 2 turns shy of completing its Obelisk. I don't believe the game will allow us to complete it now that it is obsolete. The city's build queue should probably be changed before anymore hammers go into that Obelisk.

Lastly, with the kind of out put coming from New York I would take settlers and workers with troop training in between.
I think we need at least 2, maybe 3, more Settlers at this point. A look at the demographics screen shows that we are in last place in population. That statistic doesn't bother me that much at this point in the game, since we will be able to grow. However, we are second to last in land area. That is a huge concern considering our stated victory condition. We are also in last place for soldiers. That isn't a big concern, yet, but will be very soon.

ChrTh

Mar 12, 2006, 05:49 PM

I have nothing critical to add ... #2 city site will be the fastest grower of the sites. We're Financial, though, let's Settler push, we can afford it.

ChrTh

Mar 13, 2006, 01:20 PM

Being Civics Minded

I've done some research. Here are the Favored Civics of our opponents so far:
Favorite Civic
--------------
Mao -- State Property
Monty -- Police State
Cyrus -- Representation
Kublai -- Hereditary Rule
Isabella -- Police State

Of these, State Property is the only non-Government one. So when it comes time for the UN, we might want to be in Police State/State Property in order to maximize our popularity. Obviously if Mao is our opponent we don't need to have State Property.

There's a corollary to all this: asking a Civ to change. If our opponent -- say, Cyrus -- is in Police State, we should ask/bribe him to switch to Representation (for example).

Methos

Mar 13, 2006, 07:13 PM

Since we've had to word from Scowler I'll try and play my last two turns sometime tonight. Kind of doped up today from the doc so will wait a little while until I'm more myself.

Scowler

Mar 13, 2006, 07:27 PM

Sorry Methos, I've been busy with CTIV-5 the last couple of days. I won't be able to play tonight (it's nearly 2.30am in the UK!) so please go ahead whenever you are ready.

Methos

Mar 13, 2006, 10:15 PM

Speaking of which, Philly is 2 turns shy of completing its Obelisk. I don't believe the game will allow us to complete it now that it is obsolete. The city's build queue should probably be changed before anymore hammers go into that Obelisk.

Whoops. Thanks for the heads up.

Turn 108 (175 BC)
Philadelphia begins: Lighthouse
Philadelphia begins: Library
Methos: Switch Philly to a library. It'll cost two population to whip so it'll be ten more turns until it’s possible.
New York begins: Settler
Methos: NY doesn't have any hammers invested in the axemen so I switch her to a settler.
Washington begins: Galley
Washington begins: Work Boat
Methos: Move the archer south to watch the straits.
Research begun: Meditation
Research begun: Priesthood
Research begun: Monarchy
Methos: So far Izzy and Cyrus are the only ones who don't have Math. We need two techs before we can even start on Monarchy. So I decide to help push us forward.
Methos: Traded Math to Izzy for Meditation and Masonry.
Tech learned: Meditation
Tech learned: Masonry
Tech learned: Priesthood

Turn 109 (150 BC)

Turn 110 (125 BC)
Methos: Mao asks for Open Borders and I agree to them. After the fact I realized I shouldn't have. We currently have two more settlers being built so probably shouldn't have to worry.
Methos: Mao just converted to Confucianism, meaning he now knows Code of Laws.

Boston will finish its settler next turn.
NY will finish its settler in six turns.
We need more workers so might want to build one in Boston after the settler is finished. It’ll only take five turns to complete the worker.
We’re currently four units over our free cost amount. We’re also earning a -2 gold cost as a handicap for the units. I don’t have a clue what that means. I suggest maybe holding off on more units until we build our economy up more.

Roster:
ChrTh
Bede
Methos- Just Played
Scowler- Up
Maquis- On Deck
Conroe

Scowler

Mar 14, 2006, 09:45 AM

Got it. Will probably play tomorrow.

Scowler

Mar 15, 2006, 07:12 PM

Turn 0 (125 BC)
DC is switched from a work boat to a galley so that one of the settlers can be ferried over to the corn island. The wine resource there is worked to bring the build time from 17 to 13 turns.
Everything else looks fine so I hit "turn".

IBT:
Confucianism has spread: New York
Boston finishes: Settler

Turn 1 (100 BC)
Izzy wants OB with us, but it doesn't seem like a good idea to give her settlers access to our land.

Next comes Mao, who demands Alphabet. This is a more difficult decision. Methos refused the same demand from Khan, but that was five or six turns ago and I don't think we can realistically hold on to our monopoly for much longer. Also, this game is supposed to be about playing the diplomatic game and I don't particularly want to antagonize the currently most powerful civ - who also happens to be our nearest neighbour. Finally, since becoming Confused Mao may be less willing to trade with the other civs, except...

I give Alphabet to Mao. We gain +2 from "fair and forthright" trading and +1 for helping; our relations improve to Pleased. Since our monopoly is now broken I next dial up Monty, who is Mao's best buddy and therefore the person that he is most likely to trade with, and ask him what he is prepared to give us for Alphabet. His response:

http://img484.imageshack.us/img484/8837/civilization420060315203909433.jpg

This suits me because the extra money will allow us to run deficit research a little longer after our settler expansion starts pushing up the maintenance costs. The next few turns should reveal whether I've made the right choice or a terrible mistake. The only potential cloud on the horizon so far is that it turns out that Monty is Cyrus's worst enemy and we get -1 from Persia. I had completely forgotten that the Aztecs and the Persians are at war...

Meanwhile, Confusion has spread in New York. Converting would improve relations with Mao still further, but I don't think we should go down this route just yet - at least not until we have a better idea of what blocs are developing.

The new settler is sent off to the east so that it can later board the galley to corn island.

Boston begins: Worker

IBT:
Washington grows: 6

Turn 2 (75 BC)
As far as I can see the trading situation has not changed. Alphabet doesn't appear to have spread any further, but we are unable to trade it any further ourselves: every option is now redded out with "We don't want to start trading away this technology just yet". Weird.

Our scout catches a glimpse of brown borders: Mali?

http://img484.imageshack.us/img484/1870/civilization420060315204634019.jpg

Turn 3 (50 BC)

http://img484.imageshack.us/img484/9735/civilization420060315205357640.jpg

It is indeed Mansa Musa. He is Buddhist and well-liked by Cyrus, but unfortunately he is also Mao's worst enemy. In fact, we already have a -4 for trading, which seems a bit unfair. He only has Monotheism so I don't bother trading him Alphabet. He is also in last place (apart from us, of course).

Atlanta is founded as planned, north of the iron.

http://img484.imageshack.us/img484/9206/civilization420060315205627144.jpg

Atlanta begins: Lighthouse

IBT:
Christianity founded in a distant land
Taoism founded in a distant land

Turn 4 (25 BC)
Taoism has been founded in Shanghai; I've no idea who got Christianity.

Mao is sending a settler group via galley but we can't close borders against him for another 6 turns!

http://img484.imageshack.us/img484/5996/civilization420060315210340819.jpg

Our own galley in DC can now be whipped with just 1 pop. so I do this. Can't risk Mao getting to that island before we do!

And the trading situation is STILL stagnant. Remarkable.

IBT:
Washington finishes: Galley

Turn 5 (0 AD)
The galley is launched, with Mao's following all too closely behind.

IBT:
New York finishes: Settler
Boston finishes: Worker

Turn 6 (25 AD)
Settler at New York is now ready so I send him up towards the wine location just east of DC. I'm worried that if I close borders against Mao his ship will become trapped between the borders of DC and Atlanta and he might be tempted to unload his settler in that gap and plant a city there. If we can get our settler there in time we should be able to prevent this.

New York begins: Axeman
Boston begins: Axeman

IBT:
Washington finishes: Work Boat

Turn 7 (50 AD)
:coffee:

Still no trading possible.

Washington begins: Library

IBT:
Tech learned: Monarchy
Philadelphia grows: 3

Turn 8 (75 AD)
Research begun: Code of Laws. As we are spamming settlers it makes sense to have courthouses on hand, and CoL should be good for trading (assuming this bunch are willing to get off their backsides and actually DO some trading - everything is still redded out)
New York finishes: Axeman

Turn 9 (100 AD)
Now that New York's axe is finished I revolt to Hereditary Rule. No more happiness limit for us!

Mao's galley has suddenly decided to turn back! I don't know why it should do this, but I'm not complaining.

New York begins: Settler

Turn 10 (125 AD)
We are now able to cancel OB with Mao whenever we want. However, since his galley is heading back west there is no longer any pressing reason to do so. I suggest keeping things as they are and simply watching out for any more settlers looking for free passage through our territory.

We have a settler in place and ready to found a city in the forest north of the wine. It would have been nice to be able to chop that forest before settling but there were no workers that could be spared. The other settler is currently waiting on the east coast for the galley to reach it - as is the archer that should accompany him to the corn island:

http://img484.imageshack.us/img484/3651/civilization420060315214150092.jpg

As you can see, there is a fish available as well as the corn:

http://img484.imageshack.us/img484/5205/civilization420060315214207153.jpg

- Philly hasn't yet been able to chop its library due to slow growth. I've added a cottage there, but perhaps I should have built a farm first instead.
- Another settler will soon be ready at NY. He should also be sent east: depending on what appears under the fog, he could also be sent across to the corn island or nearby.
- Work boat is heading for the clams north of Atlanta.
- An axeman is on his way from New York to bolster the garrison at Philly.
- Mansa Musa is willing to make the following trade:

http://img484.imageshack.us/img484/394/civilization420060315214555143.jpg

However, you should remember that Mansa and Mao are each other's worst enemies and Mao is our best friend.

Also:
Khan and Izzy are worst enemies
Cyrus and Monty are worst enemies (and still at war)

The save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/CTIV-7_AD-0125.Civ4SavedGame)

Scowler

Mar 15, 2006, 07:13 PM

This is the current trading situation. In every case, technologies in red give the reason "We don't want to start trading away this technology just yet". It's been the same all throughout my round. I just don't know what to make of it.

http://img484.imageshack.us/img484/5428/civilization420060315214434703.jpg

http://img484.imageshack.us/img484/3481/civilization420060315214450018.jpg

http://img484.imageshack.us/img484/631/civilization420060315214502377.jpg

http://img484.imageshack.us/img484/7796/civilization420060315214511072.jpg

http://img484.imageshack.us/img484/6600/civilization420060315214519482.jpg

http://img484.imageshack.us/img484/1650/civilization420060315214533823.jpg

Other information:

http://img484.imageshack.us/img484/8558/civilization420060315214815689.jpg

http://img484.imageshack.us/img484/3504/civilization420060315214817841.jpg

ChrTh

Mar 15, 2006, 07:41 PM

Roster:
ChrTh
Bede
Methos
Scowler > Just Played
Maquis > UP
Conroe > On Deck

As for why they don't want to trade yet ... I'm guessing the AI doesn't like to trade monopoly/almost monopoly techs?

LKendter

Mar 15, 2006, 07:44 PM

This is the current trading situation. In every case, technologies in red give the reason "We don't want to start trading away this technology just yet". It's been the same all throughout my round. I just don't know what to make of it.

This often shows up with monopoly techs and unbuilt wonder techs. From the AI standpoint the monopoly is based on civs he knows, so 2 civs can refuse to trade away a "monopoly".

ChrTh

Mar 15, 2006, 07:52 PM

I looked at the save, I don't think there are any "Worst Enemies" out there right now except for Mao and Mansa.

Scowler

Mar 15, 2006, 07:58 PM

Trust me; there are! I put that list together from the number of times I saw the messages "we urge you to stop trading with..." and "beware of ... they can't be trusted" when I dialed somebody up. And it's probably only a matter of time before Cyrus or Monty asks us to join in their war...

ChrTh

Mar 15, 2006, 08:00 PM

Trust me; there are! I put that list together from the number of times I saw the message "we urge you to stop trading with..." when I dialed somebody up. And it's probably only a matter of time before Cyrus or Monty asks us to join in their war...

Whoops, missed that last note. :blush:

Hrm, well at least the 'worst enemies' are paired up nicely.

Maquis

Mar 16, 2006, 07:25 AM

I got it. I'll be playing tonight.

As for deplomacy, I understand that we want to stay as friendly as possible with Mao.

Looks like Monty is tops in power, but I doubt we could count on staying friendly w/ him? Better to try to get on Cyrus' good side?

Same goes for Izzy... since she's Jewish, we'd have to piss off a lot of others if we suck up to her...

Anyways, looks like the settler on corn isle should go 1 SW, looks like a desert tile? It'll take a border pop, but will get both fish & corn...

Maquis

Mar 17, 2006, 06:14 PM

Turns done. I worked on settling corn isle, and found a couple surprises...

Turn 120 (125 AD)
Washington grows: 6
Boston grows: 4

Turn 121 (150 AD)
Chicago founded
Chicago begins: Lighthouse
Chicago begins: Library
Boston finishes: Axeman

Turn 122 (175 AD)
Boston begins: Granary
Christianity has spread: Philadelphia

Turn 123 (200 AD)

Turn 124 (225 AD)
Atlanta grows: 2

Turn 125 (250 AD)

Turn 126 (275 AD)
Seattle founded
Seattle begins: Library
New York finishes: Settler

Turn 127 (300 AD)
New York begins: Worker
Tech learned: Code of Laws
Boston grows: 5

Turn 128 (325 AD)
Research begun: Metal Casting
Atlanta finishes: Lighthouse

Turn 129 (350 AD)
Atlanta begins: Library
Washington finishes: Library
Boston finishes: Granary

Turn 130 (375 AD)
Washington begins: Lighthouse
Boston begins: Courthouse

Turn 2: Christianity spreads to Phily. St least now it can get some culture to get the border expansion, since it has no production...

Turn 5: The settler/archer pair hit corn isle... and I find a few surprises. It's big enough to hold a couple cities! Red dot, where I am going to settle, can get fish and corn. Blue dot can have fish and horses.

http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/3589/cornisle3oy.jpg

Turn 6: Seattle founded on the isle. ordered up a library for the culture.

Turn 9: Ok, hopefully I didn't :smoke:, but the isle has another surprise... we have some barb friends! I have sent the galley back tot the mainland, to pick up a couple of axes... next player can check out the barb city, not sure if it would be worth keeping...

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/945/civ4screenshot00046ne.jpg

On the trading front, the option to get Currency is there from Mansa. I didn't take it, I wasn't sure if it would be worth the diplo hit. I couldn't find any other trades that were open (at least none that were not lopsided...)

We'll have to turn down science in the next turn or two. If we can get the trade for currency done, the sooner the better.

Here's the save:

ChrTh

Mar 17, 2006, 07:24 PM

Roster:
ChrTh > On Deck
Bede
Methos
Scowler
Maquis > Just Played
Conroe > UP

Conroe

Mar 18, 2006, 03:35 PM

Got it! I doubt that I will get it played today.

I've been reading over the last several reports and I'm not sure that I understand the diplomatic landscape in this game. Scowler has posted a lot of good information, as well as all of those screenshots. And, the consensus seems to be that we want to remain good friends with Mao. But, if the UN were to have been built this turn, wouldn't Mao be our opponent? Isn't he the biggest civ? If that is the case, then there is no way he would ever vote for us. Or is Monty the biggest civ? I'm rather unclear on this point, myself. The fact remains, though, that we want our best friend to be the second biggest civ, not the biggest.

Of course, the construction of the UN is still aways away and the landscape can change significantly by that time. However, it seems to me that we should be looking to convert to Buddhism since Monty, Khan, Cyrus, and Mansa are all Buddhist at the moment. Ahhh, but Cyrus and Monty hate each other! It would be nice to stay out of that conflict, but that would seriously limit our trading opportunities. And then Khan is mad at us for not giving in to his demands, while Mansa hates us for trading with his worst enemy, Mao.

That just leaves Isabella and I think we can all agree that we won't be taking her to the dance.

Conroe

Mar 19, 2006, 10:48 PM

I was really hoping to get some feedback on my query before playing my turns. The diplomacy side of the game is definitely a weakness of mine. However, since our military is so weak (pathetic actually), it probably behooves us to not irritate any civ.

Here is how our demographics look at this point. We are dead last in soldiers and population, and significantly below the average. In land area, we are tied for last. We are also trailing in GNP output.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/CTIV-7_375AD_Demo.JPG

Needless to say, but we have got to improve these numbers if we are going to have a chance in this game. We have got to start churning out cottages to get our commerce up enough to compete in the tech race. And, if we don't start building troops, we are going to lose what little land that we have.

On the land front, it looks like we should be able to claim the corn island for ourselves. And it looks like it may be big enough to hold at least three cities, albeit cramped. I think we will need at least one more Settler to be trained. Hopefully, we have enough troops already trained to capture the barb city on the corn island.

If we can get the free Great Artist that comes with researching Music, I think we would have a good shot at flipping the former barb city of Scythian. The city has a religion that has spread to it, but it does not have a border expansion, yet. A culture bomb in Philadelphia would most likely flip the city.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/CTIV-7_375AD_FlipPlan.JPG

It will be a big risk, though. In order to research Music, we will need either Literature or Drama. Mao already has Literature and is unwilling to trade it. He may already have Music or be researching it currently. Since he is the GNP leader, we will not get the free Artist if he is researching it. It will take us 5 turns to research Literature and find out if Mao already has Music or not.

Turn 0 - 375AD: We currently have 15 gold in the bank and are spending it at -13gpt with 80% on the research slider. I dial the slider down to 70%, but we are still spending at -7gpt. Since Montezuma is the only civ that is pleased with us, I dial him up and ask for a free handout of 50 gold (all he has). He was very happy to give it to us. With 65 gold, we can stay at 70% research for 9 turns (or at least until we found a new city).

I change our research from Metal Casting to Literature.

Washington has a Lighthouse in the build queue with no hammers invested. I change it to a Spearman. Boston has a Courthouse in the build queue, also with no hammers, that I change to an Axeman. While Lighthouses and Courthouses are certainly necessary builds, we need more troops at the moment. Of our 7 cities, only Washington, Boston, and New York are productive at the moment.

I :whipped: the Library in Philadelphia at the cost of 1 population.

IBT: Mansa Musa completes the Parthenon.

Turn 1 - 400AD: New York completes a Worker and begins another Settler. Philadelphia completes its Library and begins a Granary.

I :whipped: the Spearman in Washington and the Axeman in Boston at a cost of 1 population each.

Turn 2 - 425AD: Washington completes the Spearman and starts another one. Boston completes the Axeman and starts another one. Meanwhile, we get a border expansion in Philadelphia.

Turn 3 - 450AD:

IBT: Mao's Settler galley is sailing around our coast. Mao is now aware that the city of Chicago has no troops to defend it.

Turn 4 - 475AD: Evidently Mao had the same idea that I had. A culture bomb has just gone off in Scythian. Philadelphia is now 18% American and has a 6.5% chance of revolt. I think it is safe to say that we are going to lose this city.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/CTIV-7_475AD_CultureBomb.JPG

We only have 1 turn left on Literature. I'm going to leave it alone, but I am pretty sure that Mao has already discovered Music.

Turn 5 - 500AD: Literature is complete. And as I expected, Mao has already discovered Music. I resume our research on Metal Casting.

An Axeman is trained in Boston and another one is started. I :whipped: the Library builds in Chicago and Atlanta.

I cancel open borders with Mao. His Settler galley is now trapped between the unexpanded borders of Chicago and Atlanta. Unfortunately, our Scout is also trapped on the far side of the continent.

IBT: On the corn island, our Axeman is attacked by a barb Archer. After a Cover promotion, our axe will need 2 turns to heal.

Turn 6 - 520AD: Washington completes a Spearman and begins training an Axeman. Atlanta completes its Library and starts a Granary.

IBT: The war horns sound. After changing my underwear, it appears that Montezuma has declared war on Mao.

Turn 7 - 540AD: New York completes its Settler and begins a Swordsman.

San Francisco is founded due south of Atlanta, just east of the stone tile. It immediately begins work on a Granary.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/CTIV-7_540AD_SanFran.JPG

The city maintenance costs are starting to add up now. Along with the costs for troop support. I am forced to lower the research slider to 50%.

The situation in Philadelphia is showing some improvement. I decide to preempt the Granary build for a Christian Monastery (+2cpt). It should probably be whipped at some point.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/CTIV-7_540AD_Philly.JPG

While cropping the above picture, I notice that I apparently clicked on the wrong building! I seem to have selected a Temple rather than a Monastery. :gripe:

IBT: Monty asks us to join the war with him and Mao. I decline, but he is still pleased with us.

Turn 8 - 560AD: Boston completes an Axeman and starts another one.

Turn 9 - 580AD: New York completes a Swordsman and starts an Axeman. Boston completes an Axeman and starts another one.

We also get a border expansion in Atlanta. This pushes Mao's Settler Galley further east. He still cannot reach the corn island, though, because of San Francisco.

Turn 10 - 600AD: A Chinese revolt begins in Philadelphia. The city is up to 30% American, now. Curiously, it has also caused a big hit to the finances. We are now spending at -7gpt with no money in the bank. The next person will need to drop the research slider.

After 10 turns, here is what our empire looks like:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/CTIV-7_600AD_OurEmpire.JPG

Here is what the demographics look like after my turns:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/CTIV-7_600AD_Demo.JPG

I built a ton of troops during my set, but you wouldn't know it by looking at the demographics. Our last place ranking in GNP happened after the Philly revolt. The turn before showed we had dropped to 6th place (from 5th), but now we are in last place. Before the revolt, we were in 3rd place, IIRC, in land area.

The power graph is rather interesting. Monty and Cyrus have definitely been building troops during my turns.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/CTIV-7_600AD_Power.JPG

As for corn island, there is a Settler in a Galley that can be offloaded next turn. Refer to Maquis' dot map for the placement. There are also two (count 'em 2) barb cities on the island. We have 3 Axemen and 2 Archers. The Archers will be needed for our cities, though. We also have a lone Swordsman enroute to Boston. It will be 3 or 4 turns before he can be put onto a Galley, though.

I managed to build quite a few cottages on my turns. And I even chopped down a couple of forest to make room for more cottages. I totally ignored hooking up any resources. We don't have a pressing need for more resources and I was too afraid to trade any of them without a better understanding of our diplomatic situation. Besides, we have got to increase our GNP output if we are going to have any chance in this game.

ChrTh

Mar 20, 2006, 06:23 AM

Conroe, I think the reason we didn't responded (at least the reason *I* didn't) is because we don't understand the diplo situation either :crazyeye:

It's a damn shame about Philadelphia. When I settled it near Scythian I didn't realize it'd become a problem so soon. Hrmmmm...

I got it, should be playing tonight (~12 hours)

Roster:
ChrTh > UP
Bede > On Deck
Methos
Scowler
Maquis
Conroe > Just Played

Bede

Mar 20, 2006, 10:20 AM

:wallbash:

Hard drive failure has left me on the sidelines.......so skip until I check back in

ChrTh

Mar 20, 2006, 06:23 PM

Looks like I'm not going to be playing until tomorrow night, so everyone is free to comment! :D

Bede

Mar 21, 2006, 06:26 PM

Back on line so I can take it after ChrTH.

As for commentary, looks like cottages and troops are the orders of the day.

ChrTh

Mar 21, 2006, 07:27 PM

Turn 0 -- 600 AD

Goals this turn: Military/Settlers/Finances

I swap Philly to a Christian Monastery (although it won't be able to work on it for 2 turns).

Science to 40%, 0 gold 0gpt

Turn 1 -- 620 AD

IT: Archer defeated by Barb Archer

Chichen Itza built
Mao adopts OR
Chicago border expansion

Turn 2 -- 640 AD

Washington: Axe > Axe
New York: Axe > Spear

Philadelphia comes out of revolt. I whip the monastery.

I fortify Washington's Axe and send New York's to Philadelphia.

Los Angeles is built, start Library.

Turn 3 -- 660 AD

Isabella demands Code of Laws. We reject her empty threats.

Metal Casting comes in. I start Compass for a sec (until I see where all the other civs are techwise).

Boston: Axe > Courthouse
Atlanta: Granary > Archer (normally I don't build troops without a barracks, but since Atlanta is so far down the line
Philly: Christian Monastery > Granary

Isabella adopts Theocracy.

Ok, only a couple of Civs have Compass, so I stick with it.

Turn 4 -- 680 AD

Isabella declares war on Mao Zedong! :eek:

:coffee:

Turn 5 -- 700 AD

New York: Spear > Worker
Boston: Courthouse > Settler

Monty adopts Theocracy

Turn 6 -- 720 AD

The axes aren't going to be able to take Gepid, so I pull them back into our borders to reduce our expenses.

Turn 7 -- 740 AD

Mao wants us to declare war on Monty. I can't do it. While I don't think it'd be anything but a phony war, I'm still not sure that we won't be beating up Mao at some point. If that's the case, -1 ain't gonna hurt us.

Washington: Axe > Granary
Atlanta: Archer > Courthouse
San Fran: Granary > Lighthouse

Borders of Seattle have expanded.

I can actually go science to 50% for a few turns.

Turn 8 -- 760 AD

Izzy wants Open Borders. No dice.

Sword dropped off in LA.

Turn 9 -- 780 AD

NY: Worker > Forge. I do a little MMing to focus on commerce.

Mansa Musa adopts Vassalage.

Galley goes to sleep in San Fran.

Turn 10 -- 800 AD

Izzy wants us to cancel deals with Mao. Nope.
Cyrus wants to Open Borders. Not yet.

I move the Gepid assault troops towards it. Don't know what the odds are going to be. The sword, maybe one of the axes hasn't been promoted yet.

Well, don't know how much better off we are. Compass is due in 3. We should be able to trade it straight-up for Currency (Kublai?). At some point I think we need to figure out how diplomacy works :crazyeye:

Here's the save:

120547

Roster:
ChrTh > Just Played
Bede > UP
Methos > On Deck
Scowler
Maquis
Conroe

Bede

Mar 21, 2006, 07:58 PM

I seem to remember a game I won by UN vote still having absolutely no idea how diplomacy worked, just kept sabotaging the other guys SS parts, till I guess they got sick of it and voted me in.

Got it. Play it tomorrow.

Maquis

Mar 22, 2006, 09:15 AM

I was reading through another SG where they were focused on a diplo win. In that game it looks like choosing your UN opponent is important. We need to figure out who is the least liked by the other AIs, so we can make sure they won't vote for them. This means pushing the disliked AI to the top of the population heap so they are assured to be your opponent.

It also seems that the decision isn't made until we are close to ready to build the UN. Before then, we just try to keep a few friends. I think at some time we should start gifting to a couple of the AIs so we can get their votes...

Methos

Mar 23, 2006, 08:38 PM

How's things going Bede?

Bede

Mar 23, 2006, 09:02 PM

How's things going Bede?
Pretty good actually.

Turn 150 (800 AD)
We are still in the hunt. My biggest convern is Philadelphia and our lack of worker support so take the following steps

Seattle begins: Worker
Boston begins: Worker

Los Angeles begins: Work Boat

Next thing I do is trade wine to the Mongol. The best way to get to Friendly terms is give them a reasonable deal and earn those "fair and forthright" and "resource trade" points. We pick up a few coins and within 5 turns he goes from Cautious to Pleased

Philadelphia finishes: Granary after a whipping

Turn 151 (820 AD)
Chicago begins: Lighthouse
The assault on Gepid
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a371/doconor/CTIV-7/820.jpg

Leading with the City Raider promoted axe fails miserably
Axeman loses to: Barbarian Archer (0.96/3)

So pull the axe out of LA to provide support to finish the job.

Then in goes the sword
Swordsman defeats (3.72/6): Barbarian Archer

That was better!

Not so good
Axeman loses to: Barbarian Archer (2.43/3)
Sail the galley with an axe across to help.

Philadelphia begins: Lighthouse

Washington finishes: Granary

Turn 152 (840 AD)
Washington begins: Forge
Tech learned: Compass
Taoism has spread: Washington
Chicago grows: 3

Turn 153 (860 AD)

Chicago begins: Harbor
New York grows: 6
Boston's borders expand
Boston finishes: Worker
Christianity has spread: Boston
Philadelphia finishes: Lighthouse
Atlanta grows: 5
Atlanta finishes: Courthouse
Chicago finishes: Lighthouse

Turn 154 (880 AD)
Research begun: Construction
Boston begins: Swordsman
Philadelphia begins: Courthouse
Atlanta begins: Galley
Philadelphia's borders expand
Chicago finishes: Granary

Barbarian archer attacks out of Gepid and gets the swordsman promoted
Swordsman defeats (5.46/6): Barbarian Archer

Turn 155 (900 AD)
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a371/doconor/CTIV-7/900.jpg
Spain gives us a hand by capturing Scythian . No more cultural pressure on Philadelphia
Boston begins: Library to catch the lumber from a hill side forestry operation (I so dislike simking trees into troops
Chicago begins: Harbor
San Francisco finishes: Lighthouse

Turn 156 (920 AD)
Make another try for Gepid and succeed this time
Swordsman defeats (2.40/6): Barbarian Archer

Axeman defeats (0.60/5): Barbarian Archer
Captured Gepid (Barbarian) with a worker who heads off to cut some trees into bookshelves
Gepid begins: Library
Chicago grows: 4

Turn 157 (940 AD)
Boston begins: Library
Boston grows: 9
Atlanta grows: 6
Seattle finishes: Worker who heads into the trees for some more lumberjacking

Turn 158 (960 AD)
Seattle begins: Lighthouse
Boston finishes: Swordsman
Philadelphia grows: 3
Atlanta finishes: Galley
Seattle grows: 3
San Francisco grows: 2

Turn 159 (980 AD)
Atlanta begins: Galley we need boats to support the corn isle and there is another barbarian city over there
Tech learned: Construction I want this for catapults and elephants from the barbarian lands
Chicago grows: 5
Los Angeles finishes: Work Boat which is sailed off to the Seattle fishery.

Turn 160 (1000 AD)
Research begun: Civil Service. it would be nice to have Bureaucrats
New York begins: Courthouse

The lighthouses and courthouses did reasonable things for the cash flow while the extra workers are trying to develop commerce sources for us (or chopping trees for things like libraries and courthouses. I would really like to get a monastery into a productive town so we can get some religion and cultural expansions without the libraries. And now Irealize there is a monastery in Philadelphia but the town currently lacks the hammers to train them effectively.

I used the whip to complete some of the building projects and we need to make more and better use of it to get infrastructure up (Forges, courthouses, lighthouses and such. We need about three more workers, but all the core towns now have a dedicated serf for plot improvement.

We are now on "Pleased" terms with Monte and the Khan but Isabella is starting to encroach from the SE. This could get nasty shortly if she decides we make a better target than Mao.

Our only real technology trading opportunities are with the Spanish Queen, but she is the odd man out right so I wouldn't waste them on her. Start trading rhe spare resources and even some of the not spare, as we are way long on health and happiness resources for our population. If we develop reasonable trading relations with all but Izzy we hould be in pretty good shape going forward.

The realm

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a371/doconor/CTIV-7/1000.jpg

ChrTh

Mar 23, 2006, 09:18 PM

Roster:
ChrTh
Bede > Just Played
Methos > UP
Scowler > On Deck
Maquis
Conroe

Good turns there! Great news about Scythian! :thumbsup:

Methos

Mar 24, 2006, 06:57 AM

Got it....

Conroe

Mar 24, 2006, 09:27 AM

Spain gives us a hand by capturing Scythian . No more cultural pressure on PhiladelphiaWay to go, Izzy! :yeah: Question for you, though, Bede. It is kind of difficult to tell from the picture, but it looks like Philly's borders did not expand after Scythian fell. Can you confirm this?

Research begun: Civil Service. it would be nice to have BureaucratsI would have to agree with this statement. With our current situation in this game, I think revolting to Bureaucracy is a no-brainer.

What isn't a no-brainer is switching to Caste System at the same time. What does the team think about that? At some point, we are going to have to give up Slavery since we will need the population for the UN vote. And the fastest way to get a border pop in a new city is to run an Artist specialist for 3 turns. The main reason I would consider it, though, is to start running with Merchant specialist. Since we have the food, this would pay for some of our expenses and allow us to up the research slider. And the gold from a trade mission would help this along even further.

Our only real technology trading opportunities are with the Spanish Queen, but she is the odd man out right so I wouldn't waste them on her. Start trading rhe spare resources and even some of the not spare, as we are way long on health and happiness resources for our population. If we develop reasonable trading relations with all but Izzy we hould be in pretty good shape going forward.I'm thinking that annexing Spain's population may be the way to go. We wouldn't get a diplomatic penalty from any of the other AI, plus she is the weakest of the AI (at least as of my turns). However, we still have a long way to go to catch up with her on the power graph.

ChrTh

Mar 24, 2006, 12:29 PM

Conroe, you have some good ideas there. If I get a chance to look at the save before I leave I'll try to provide a more worthwhile response :)

Methos

Mar 26, 2006, 01:18 AM

Turn 160 (1000 AD)
Methos: MM DC to get her to start growing again
Methos: We have eight workers for ten cities, not good. Will get a few more workers up and running.
New York grows: 7
New York finishes: Forge

Turn 161 (1010 AD)
New York begins: Worker
Methos: Mao wants to sign an OB agreement, but I decline. Monte and him just don't seem to get a long.
Washington grows: 9
Boston finishes: Swordsman
Chicago grows: 6
Seattle finishes: Lighthouse

Turn 162 (1020 AD)
Washington finishes: Forge
Boston grows: 10
Christianity has spread: San Francisco

Turn 163 (1030 AD)
Washington begins: Worker
New York finishes: Worker
Philadelphia grows: 4
Chicago grows: 7
Seattle grows: 4
San Francisco finishes: Courthouse
Los Angeles grows: 2
Axeman loses to: Barbarian Archer (0.84/3)

Turn 164 (1040 AD)
New York begins: Worker
San Francisco begins: Library
Methos: I moved our axemen closer to the barb city of Avar, only to have him destroyed by an archer.
Methos: I'm able to up our research to 60%.
Boston finishes: Swordsman
Atlanta finishes: Galley

Turn 165 (1050 AD)
Atlanta begins: Forge
Methos: That sucks, the barb city of Avar was captured by the Spanish. Looks like she may become a victim of us soon.
Atlanta grows: 7

Turn 166 (1060 AD)
Boston finishes: Swordsman
Chicago grows: 8
San Francisco grows: 3

Turn 167 (1070 AD)
Washington finishes: Worker
New York finishes: Worker
Seattle grows: 5

Turn 168 (1080 AD)
Washington begins: Aqueduct
New York begins: Worker
Washington begins: Harbor
Tech learned: Civil Service
Boston finishes: Swordsman
Philadelphia grows: 5
Atlanta's borders expand

Turn 169 (1090 AD)
Research begun: Paper

Sorry for the info lacking turn log.

Currently Mao is at war with both Izzy and Monte. I find it odd they’re both working together. Monte has friends, but they appear to be upset with him a little for declaring on their friend.

I stopped one turn short so we could discuss civics changes. I also started research on Paper but wasn't absolutely certain this was the best way to go. No beakers have been invested so we should discuss this as well.

Roster:
ChrTh – Skip 3/25 thru 4/1
Bede
Methos- Just Played
Scowler- Up
Maquis- On Deck
Conroe

Scowler

Mar 26, 2006, 06:04 AM

Some quick comments on the current situation:

http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/8685/civilization420060326134640320.jpg

http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/6748/civilization420060326134648200.jpg

http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/3374/civilization420060326134656343.jpg

http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/7946/civilization420060326134657703.jpg

We still don't seem to have many trading options. A little disturbing how far behind we are getting in tech. Even so, I'm wondering whether it might be worth grabbing Currency first as it is only 4 turns away and will immediately give us an extra trade route.

I see that we have at least -1 from everybody for either trading with enemies or refusing to help. So we really ought to think about who we are going to support for the rest of the game. At the moment nobody really hates us, but nobody really likes us either. We can't afford to dither much longer.

By the look of it, we should also spend some time building up our military. We don't want to present an easy target once the others run out of space.

I liked Conroe's suggestion about Caste System. Given our current tech status we need all the help we can get.

Good to see a harbor on the way in DC. We have quite a few coastal cities so building more harbors would be another useful source of income (once we get that extra trade route).

Conroe

Mar 26, 2006, 08:35 AM

Thanks for posting those screenshots, Scowler. That power graph should be a wake up call for us. Not only are we dead last in troops, but we are dead last by a country mile! :( We need to start building troops!

The demographics screen shows a little bit of good news. We are 2nd in land area. If we conquer Spain, we would then most likely be in first. Excellent news! Our GNP is up to 3rd, just a hair below the average. Our cottages are starting to grow. Scowler's suggestion of currency would help this out even more. Have we cottaged everything that we can, yet?

But look, we are 1st in production! Wow! :goodjob: We didn't kick off a golden age did we? Let's use that production capacity to build us some troops!

We are dead last in population, but that number does not concern me at the moment. I attribute it to our use of the :whipped:. Once we get out of Slavery, that number should start to go up. Especially considering that we are 1st in crop yield. The population growth should also help out our GNP situation, assuming that we have built all of the cottages.

That sucks, the barb city of Avar was captured by the Spanish. Looks like she may become a victim of us soon.This really isn't a big deal. We can let Izzy pay the maintenance costs while the city grows and becomes productive. We can then capture it later with the rest of her empire.

I liked Conroe's suggestion about Caste System. Given our current tech status we need all the help we can get.If we are going to switch to caste, then do one last round with the :whipped: before we switch. After that, once cities hit max pop, we can hire Merchants to defray our maintenance cost. As long as we are in Bureaucracy, though, no specialist in the capitol. Depending on the border situation in Philly, we may want to consider hiring artists there to push out our borders. Plus, we could still use a Great Artist for a culture bomb. Either to flip Scythian or to pull Madrid out of revolt.

I also started research on Paper but wasn't absolutely certain this was the best way to go. No beakers have been invested so we should discuss this as well.I would hold off on Paper until we can build Macemen. I would research towards Currency then Machinery. What about trading? Are Monarchy and Civil Service monopoly techs? I would think long and hard before trading a monopoly tech, but if they are not a monopoly ... It would be nice to pick up something with these techs while we still can.

A little disturbing how far behind we are getting in tech.Disturbing is probably an understatement. If we can get our GNP number up, I'm hoping we can gain the tech lead. I'm thinking that a tech lead (or at least tech parity), combined with a successful Spanish campaign will be the keys to us winning this game.

Bede

Mar 26, 2006, 06:17 PM

Currency then Machinery sems to be the soundest direction, but what do I know?

Setting up to swallow Spain would serve two needs: getting friendship points with Mao and getting our land are up.

If that MFG number is a good one, let's get some troops traineds and on the borders, ready to for Isabella.

If we can get two good sizable friends (Mao and Kublai) and get our land area and population numbers up then researching to Mass Media and nailing the vote should be more than feasible.

Scowler

Mar 28, 2006, 05:14 AM

Unless Methos particularly wants to play out his final turn I'm going to tackle the save this evening.

Methos

Mar 28, 2006, 07:25 AM

Unless Methos particularly wants to play out his final turn I'm going to tackle the save this evening.

Look above Scowler and you'll see I already played. As a matter of fact you even made suggestions of my save! :lol:

Edit: Whoops, just remembered I stopped with one turn left on my turnset. I totally forgot about that :blush: . Go ahead Scowler, finish her off.

Scowler

Mar 28, 2006, 03:00 PM

Largely uneventful turns spent pushing workers around.

Turn 0 (1090 AD)
Research is switched from Paper to Currency, as agreed.
Library is whipped at Seattle
Looking round the empire I notice that LA is building a library in 8 turns, which seems inefficient to me since there is no urgency to expand borders here and we can build a lighthouse in 6 turns that will improve growth.
Los Angeles begins: Lighthouse

IBT:
Chicago grows: 9
Seattle finishes: Library

Turn 1 (1100 AD)
Harbor whipped at Chicago
Lighthouse whipped at LA
Seattle begins: Courthouse

IBT:
New York finishes: Worker
Boston finishes: Library
Chicago finishes: Harbor
Los Angeles finishes: Lighthouse
Islam founded in a distant land

Turn 2 (1110 AD)
While checking around for trading possibilities I notice that Cyrus has 5gpt burning a hole in his pocket. Our health is currently satisfactory (any growth limits will come from happiness rather than health), so I offer him pigs for his 5gpt and he accepts. Hopefully, this will lead to better relations down the line; for the moment Cyrus is one of the "safe", neutral characters who isn't hated by anybody.
Boston begins: Christian Monastery
Chicago begins: Forge
Los Angeles begins: Library
New York begins: Courthouse

IBT:
Chicago grows: 9
Seattle grows: 5

Turn 3 (1120 AD)
DC whips harbor
NY whips courthouse
Boston whips monastery
Philly whips courthouse
Atlanta whips Forge
:whipped: :whipped: :whipped:

IBT:
Tech learned: Currency
Washington finishes: Harbor
New York finishes: Courthouse
Boston grows: 9
Boston finishes: Christian Monastery
Philadelphia finishes: Courthouse
Atlanta finishes: Forge
San Francisco's borders expand

Turn 4 (1130 AD)
Mansa wants OB. It should be safe to agree to this as the war has now removed him from everybody else's hitlist.
Montezuma also comes calling, looking to trade some resources with us, but I decline.
We revolt to Bureaucracy / Caste System
Research begun: Machinery
Washington begins: Lighthouse
New York begins: Market
Boston begins: Market
Philadelphia begins: Harbor
Atlanta begins: Harbor

Turn 5 (1140 AD)
Izzy and Mao declare peace

IBT:
Washington grows: 8
Washington finishes: Lighthouse
Philadelphia grows: 5
Atlanta grows: 7

Turn 6 (1150 AD)
Washington begins: Market

IBT:
Chicago grows: 10
Gepid grows: 3

Turn 7 (1160 AD)
Washington grows: 9
Seattle grows: 6

Turn 8 (1170 AD)
:coffee:

IBT:
Tech learned: Machinery
Philadelphia grows: 6
Los Angeles finishes: Library

Turn 9 (1180 AD)
Research begun: Paper
Los Angeles begins: Granary

Like Methos I've stopped a turn short with Paper set up, but once again that's the way the techs have fallen and it's a good place to take stock and reassess our strategy.

My first task this round was to improve our GNP. This was achieved without difficulty, thanks to Currency and the change in civics. Workers spent their time almost exclusively building cottages. A number of money-related projects, including courthouses, harbors, and markets were either completed or set in motion. I hired 3 merchants at Chicago as the city had reached its happiness limit (and I also hired an artist at Philly as some squares are still under cultural pressure). We are now running +20gpt @60%; it is not worth turning science up any further for the time being, but this situation should soon change as our cities reach their growth limits - many are already quite close.

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c315/Scowler894/Civilization42006-03-2818-47-30-00.jpg

Once again the demographics screen appears to be buggy:

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c315/Scowler894/Civilization42006-03-2818-47-48-50.jpg

However, I failed completely at the second task: building up our military. I judged financial improvement and infrastructure to be a higher priority and the most obviously militaristic civs were already occupied elsewhere. I would recommend that the next player tackles this area, especially now that macemen are available.

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c315/Scowler894/Civilization42006-03-2818-47-35-21.jpg

I was unable to do any tech trading. The only possible partner was Izzy, who is similarly "out of the loop". Again, this is an area that requires urgent attention, but the addition of more merchants will certainly help our research speed.

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c315/Scowler894/Civilization42006-03-2818-48-48-40.jpg

Methos

Mar 28, 2006, 03:29 PM

Roster:
ChrTh – Skip 3/25 thru 4/1
Bede
Methos
Scowler- Just Played
Maquis- Up
Conroe- On Deck

Conroe

Mar 28, 2006, 06:44 PM

GNP Graph (http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c315/Scowler894/Civilization42006-03-2818-47-30-00.jpg)

Once again the demographics screen appears to be buggy:

Demographics (http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c315/Scowler894/Civilization42006-03-2818-47-48-50.jpg)

Hopefully it is the demographics screen that is buggy and not the graph. I much prefer the number on the GNP graph! :lol:

Maquis

Mar 30, 2006, 05:23 AM

Sorry for the late post, but I got it. I'll be playing my turns in a few hours.

Maquis

Mar 30, 2006, 09:27 PM

An interesting turnset, at least from the diplomatic standpoint...

Turn 1: Monty asks to join him againt Mao...nope, sorry bud.
Same turn... Mao then asks to declare on Monty. I decide that we can't really trust Monty to be our friend. I declare. I think that Mao, being middle of the road, score-wise is a better choice for an ally.
Here's where it gets interesting... Cyrus also declares on Monty the same turn. This helps us a little, as we get the +'s for a "mutual struggle" with Cyrus as well.
This is going to be a phony war, as Monty is on the other side of Mao, and he will be focused on Mao and Cyrus.

Turn 4: Paper in, so I trade with Cyrus for Mono + Drama + optics + world map + 120g
I also trade with Mao, Drama for Horseback riding and Paper for Theology (Did not revolt)

This catches us up a little in the tech race. I set research to Printing Press, I think the added commerce will be a big help. Right now we are running 70% sci, and once this is in, hopefully we can crank it up even further.

Turn 10: Great Merchant is born in Chicago. I am not sure what to do with him, so left him unmoved. Right now he would learn Printing Press, but we have already researched 1/2 of it. Would he learn Banking next? Not sure.

Misc: I see that Gepid has no culture yet, so I hire a couple artists for a few turns, to get the initial border pop. Los Angeles also expanded. There are now fish in LA, and clams in Gepid that need to be improved. Building a work boat in San Francisco, and need to build another.

I'll follow up with some thoughts in the morning... it's getting late...

Turn 178 (1180 AD)

Turn 179 (1190 AD)
New York finishes: Market

Turn 180 (1200 AD)
New York begins: Granary
Washington grows: 10
Boston finishes: Market
Seattle grows: 7

Turn 181 (1210 AD)
Boston begins: Forge
New York grows: 6
New York finishes: Granary
Boston grows: 10
Atlanta finishes: Harbor
San Francisco grows: 4

Turn 182 (1220 AD)
New York begins: Library
Atlanta begins: Catapult
Tech learned: Paper
Philadelphia grows: 7
Atlanta grows: 8
Los Angeles's borders expand
Gepid grows: 4
Gepid's borders expand

Turn 183 (1230 AD)
Research begun: Printing Press
Tech learned: Monotheism
Tech learned: Drama
Tech learned: Optics
Washington grows: 11

Turn 184 (1240 AD)
Washington's borders expand
Seattle grows: 8
San Francisco finishes: Library

Turn 185 (1250 AD)
Tech learned: Theology
Tech learned: Horseback Riding
San Francisco begins: Work Boat
Philadelphia grows: 8
Atlanta finishes: Catapult
Chicago finishes: Forge
Seattle finishes: Courthouse

Turn 186 (1260 AD)
Atlanta begins: Market
Chicago begins: Market
Seattle begins: Granary
New York finishes: Library
Chicago's borders expand

Turn 187 (1270 AD)
New York begins: Theatre
Washington grows: 12
Washington finishes: Market
Boston finishes: Forge
Hanno (Great Merchant) born in Chicago

Turn 188 (1280 AD)

So with Cyrus' WM, we can see where everyone is:

http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/8968/world9pl.jpg

And the save:

Methos

Mar 31, 2006, 07:01 AM

Roster:
ChrTh- On Deck
Bede
Methos
Scowler
Maquis- Just Played
Conroe- Up

Conroe

Mar 31, 2006, 08:18 AM

Got It ...

Today is probably going to be a hectic day. It will be tomorrow before I get a chance to play this.

I'll follow up with some thoughts in the morning... it's getting late...
Please do ... I am looking forward to this ... If anyone else has any thoughts, please feel free to post them as well.

Maquis

Mar 31, 2006, 10:35 AM

What my thoughts were diplomatically:

First off, I thought I was taking a chance by agreeing to Mao's request to declare on Monty. The bit with Cyrus decalring was a great help to our relationship with him. As for Monty, he was our friend, but he's dead last in score, and may not last with Mao and Cyrus (who's leading in power) at war with him. As you can see from the map, Monty is really squeezed in, and only has 4 cities ATM.

We don't need to be friends with our opponent in the UN vote. Right now it looks like Kahn is leading in pop. I don't think we want to cultivate a relationship with him.

I still like the plan to take on Izzy, although I didn't work too hard on a militray buildup. I was working on getting our production and commerce built up. There are a few cities now that are fully improved, at least until lumbermills, etc, are available.

Basically, I think if we can add Izzy's pop to our own, and get Mao and Cyrus on our good side, that should give us a fair shot at winning the vote.

Too bad we haven't been able to get any religion bonus with the other civs yet. We'd need buddism to get in their favor. I think we can grab that from some of Izzy's cities?

Conroe

Mar 31, 2006, 05:20 PM

We don't need to be friends with our opponent in the UN vote. Right now it looks like Kahn is leading in pop. I don't think we want to cultivate a relationship with him.Just looking at the world map that you posted, it looked to me that Mao was the biggest. From what I could tell, Khan was pretty close to maxing out his population. Whereas, Mao and some of the others still have room to grow. Of course, as I said, I am looking at the posted picture and some of the numbers are kind of hard to read. I could be wrong, but here's the numbers that I came up with:

CTIV-7 .. 10 Cities @ 71 Total Population
Mao ...... 9 Cities @ 66
Mansa .... 8 Cities @ 62
Khan ..... 5 Cities @ 60
Cyrus .... 6 Cities @ 54
Izzy ..... 7 Cities @ 55 plus at least one more city not shown on the map
Monty .... 4 Cities @ 41

Personally, I think our UN opponent will be either Mao, Mansa, or Cyrus. Is it worth it to try and cultivate a relationship with all 3? Possibly. It would probably behoove us to keep Kahn and Monty happy, though, since those two probably will not be an opponent.

I still like the plan to take on Izzy, although I didn't work too hard on a militray buildup. I was working on getting our production and commerce built up. There are a few cities now that are fully improved, at least until lumbermills, etc, are available.When I originally proposed annexing Spain, she only had slightly more troops than we did. But, she started building forces, while we stagnated. But, we had a tech advantage over her once we got Macemen; so it was still a doable plan. But, we still have not built up any forces. At this point, I'm not sure that it is still a viable plan. By the time we build up the forces to go to war, there is a real possibility that we will be facing Macemen, or worse, Conquistadors. We may have to delay the Spanish invasion until we have Grenadiers or even pick a different civ to annex.

Too bad we haven't been able to get any religion bonus with the other civs yet. We'd need buddism to get in their favor. I think we can grab that from some of Izzy's cities?It would certainly be nice to pick up Buddhism. Hopefully, Izzy won't convert to it before we invade! That would be a real diplomatic kick in the pants. Let's face it, all of those religious techs that we picked up are useless to us right now. With the state that our forces are in, there is no way that we can convert to a religion and not have some other civ walk all over us.

ChrTh

Apr 01, 2006, 01:19 PM

Hey gang, I'm back, I'll be able to go after Conroe.

Conroe

Apr 02, 2006, 05:09 PM

Wow, things have certainly changed since I have last seen the game. We actually have an empire now. The demographics are starting to look better, with us being in first in GNP, production, and food.

We have had some discussion of invading Spain and annexing Izzy's population. Her army is quite a bit larger than ours, but we apparently have quite a tech advantage on her. Take a look at the defenses of Scythian:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/CTIV-7_1280AD_Scythian.JPG

We would only need 3 Macemen to overrun this city! A peek at the military advisor screens shows ... that we have ... NO Macemen. :sad: Scythian has a 40% cultural defense bonus. My guess, from looking at the map, is that Izzy's other cities will have 60% or 80% defenses. We are definitely going to need to bring along some Catapults. We have exactly 1 Catapult, and it was built in a city without a Barracks. Here is what our forces look like:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/CTIV-7_1280AD_Forces.JPG

Of the 10 cities that we have, only 3 of them have a Barracks. Several of these cities would make good troop training facilities. Unfortunately, most are currently building city infrastructure that has over a dozen turns to complete. If I override their build queue, we risk losing those hammers that are already invested.

We still have a tech lead on Izzy, but that could change shortly. She has Machinery but lacks Civil Service, Feudalism, and Guilds. I would presume that she is currently researching Feudalism to pickup the Longbowmen. I should also note that Cyrus, who is pleased with us, is also pleased with Izzy.

Financially, we are in great shape! We have 474 gold in the bank and are adding to it at +18gpt. The research slider is sitting at 70%. Their are 5 turns left on our research of Printing Press, which will improve our economy even more. Our Venerable Monk suggested that we beeline to Mass Media and the UN; the Printing Press is a required tech on that beeline. After Printing Press, though, there are two paths that we can take to the UN. The quickest way is through Astronomy. But, we do not get a big boost from this tech on this map. The slow way, adding about another 25 turns, is through Education and Chemistry. I'm inclined to go the slow route because I think we will need the Grenadiers. We could also make another ~15 turn detour for Liberalism and the Free Religion civic, which could give us a couple of extra votes come UN time. Mansa Musa will probably be the one to get the free Liberalism tech, though.

Also of interest is corn island. That map that Maquis bought shows that corn island is not an island after all. It is a penninsula that leads into the heart of Spain.

Turn 0 - 1280AD: Washington and Boston both had an empty build queue, so I start them on Macemen. I also MM both of these cities for max hammers.

I bump the research slider up a notch to 80% which brings Printing Press in 1 turn sooner. We are now spending at -12gpt, but we also have a Great Merchant available for a trade mission. I head him off towards the Chinese border. Kumbi Salah in Mali looks like it might be a suitably profitable destination. I also upgrade our Chariot to a Horse Archer for 100 gold. The Horse Archer will escort our Great Merchant.

Take a look at the former barb city of Gepid. Four food resources are within the city radius! How I wish we were still in slavery! :whipped: This city will make a real nice GP farm for us someday!

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/CTIV-7_1280AD_Gepid.JPG

Turn 1 - 1290AD: I preempt the Macemen builds in Washington and Boston for Archers. I notice that some of our cities are using Swords for MP duty.

IBT: Montezuma and Cyrus sign a peace treaty. We are now the only civ at war with Montezuma. He is willing to sign a peace treaty if we give him 10 gold. I should probably do it, but I decide to wait.

Turn 2 - 1300AD: Los Angeles finishes its Granary and starts a Forge. Since the city is size 1, I set it for growth rather than production.

Turn 3 - 1310AD: New York completes its Theatre and starts training a Maceman. Meanwhile, a Work Boat, bound for LA, is built in San Francisco. The city begins construction of a Barracks, next.

Our Great Merchant cannot make it to Malinese territory since we do not have open borders with China. I decide to send him into Mongolia instead. Here is a look at some of Khan's defenses:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/CTIV-7_1310AD_OldSarai.JPG

Turn 4 - 1320AD: Printing Press comes in. I start us on the road to Chemistry by researching Education. We will probably want to trade it for Engineering when it comes in.

Our first Maceman is trained in Washington and another one is started. Boston trains our second Maceman and also starts another one.

Turn 5 - 1330AD: The former barb city of Gepid completes its Library and begins construction of a Granary.

Turn 6 - 1340AD: Here is an intel report of the defenses of Khan's capitol:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/CTIV-7_1340AD_Karakorum.JPG

Our Great Merchant conducts a trade mission for 1500 gold. We now have 1789 gold in the treasury, so I bump the research slider up to 100%. This shaves a turn off of the Education research, but we are spending at -84gpt.

IBT: Montezuma calls us and offers a peace treaty if we give him Paper. Uh, ... NO!

Turn 7 - 1350AD: Washington trains a Maceman and starts another one. New York also trains a Maceman and starts another one. Boston does the same thing.

Philadelphia completes a Harbor. The city doesn't really have enough hammers to begin troop training, so I start it on a Forge instead.

Turn 8 - 1360AD: Boston trains a Maceman and starts another one.

IBT: Mansa Musa discovers Liberalism and gets the Free Tech.

Turn 9 - 1370AD: :coffee:

IBT: Isabella demands Currency. The power graph is looking a little bit better, so I decline.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/CTIV-7_1380AD_IzzyDemands.JPG

Turn 10 - 1380AD: Education comes in. Gunpowder is up next on the way to Chemistry.

Washington trains a Maceman and starts on a Catapult.

Turn 11 - 1390AD: Washington builds a Catapult and goes back to Maceman training. New York trains a Maceman and starts on a Catapult. Boston trains a Maceman and starts another one.

I decided to play 11 turns because our year numbers are off. Both Methos and Scowler only played 9 turns. If ChrTh will also play 11 turns, the year numbers will be back in synch.

Conroe

Apr 02, 2006, 05:11 PM

The biggest news to report is that Monty's forces have arrived in our territory! :rolleyes: I'm not sure what he has in mind, but I think we have enough forces on hand to deal with both of his units. :)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/CTIV-7_1390AD_Monty.JPG

As you can tell from my turnlog, I concentrated on building us an army. We still have a lock on last place in the demographics, but the power graph is showing some improvement:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/CTIV-7_1390AD_Power.JPG

Of course, what is most interesting about that power graph is Mansa Musa. A straight up line like that leads me to believe he has been doing some massive upgrading. I'm wondering if he doesn't have Grenadiers.

Speaking of which, we are still the tech laggard. Pretty much everybody already has Gunpowder and Engineering, the prerequisites of Chemistry. It would be nice if we could acquire these through trade. With our GNP numbers, we will most likely start pulling away from the pack after Chemistry.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/CTIV-7_1390AD_Forces.JPG

As you can see, I trained 9 Macemen, a Catapult, and some Archers. We still need a lot more troops if we want to go to war. We should probably just leave New York on cat construction for the time being. May I suggest that Chicago and Atlanta be outfitted with Barracks' after they finish their current infrastructure builds? Both of these cities would make good troop training facilities.

ChrTh

Apr 02, 2006, 05:33 PM

Roster:
ChrTh > UP
Bede > On Deck
Methos
Scowler
Maquis
Conroe > Just Played

Looks like I may have some work cut out for me...I'm probably going to take it slow (and will play 11). I'll be playing tomorrow night most likely.

Conroe

Apr 02, 2006, 08:07 PM

Looks like I may have some work cut out for me...Oh, it shouldn't be too bad. The hardest part is managing all of those workers. And Monty's invasion force :rolleyes: is no match for our Macemen. They are just here to give our mace's an extra promotion. Or, give Monty 10g and he will go away ... your call ...

Bede

Apr 02, 2006, 08:27 PM

If the people don't mind the ongoing war with Monte, no reason to stop now. And if he is going to send a cat and Jag for our troops to train on even better.

Nice job finally getting us a military Conroe. May the force be with ChrTh!

This is not an uncommon position to be in for a Monarch game...just slightly behind the tech curve but beginning to make it up as the economy gets into gear. If we annex Liz'z territory and population and continue to grow ours as we have been, unless Mansa launches a spaceship before the UN is built we should do just fine. Monte and Izzy will be the continental punching bags, I think.

Conroe

Apr 02, 2006, 08:45 PM

If we annex Liz'z territory and population and continue to grow ours as we have been, unless Mansa launches a spaceship before the UN is built we should do just fine. Monte and Izzy will be the continental punching bags, I think.You are probably correct. Although, I am concerned about how close Izzy has gotton to Cyrus. He will give us a -1 when we declare on her, for certain. Fortunately, I don't think she has anything of value to bribe him to declare on us. We definitely don't have the forces to take on the big boys. It would be nice if she declared on us ... :mischief:

Oh, I probably should have mentioned it in my turn log. But, many of our cities are starting to reach max population. For the moment, we won't have much more significant growth. Once the fighting is done, we should be able to rectify this, though. Sorry about the oversight.

Bede

Apr 02, 2006, 08:50 PM

If we cozy up to (H)issy's enemies and keep pressuring her borders it will eventually drive her to attack, and it is a short drive in most cases. We just need to be sure we are prepared when she does, as it is not a matter of "if", she is a psycho bunny unless ChrTh went woith random personalities.

ChrTh

Apr 03, 2006, 06:46 PM

Hey guys, ran into a little problem in CTIV-6 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=3888635&postcount=229), and I didn't get to the game tonight. I can play tomorrow night (EDT), but Bede, if you want to play tonight we can swap.

Bede

Apr 03, 2006, 08:29 PM

Has a late night at the shop tonight and a later one tomorrow, so stay the course ChrTh as I won't be playing well on either one.

ChrTh

Apr 03, 2006, 08:29 PM

Ok, no problem, I'll get to it tomorrow.

ChrTh

Apr 04, 2006, 07:11 PM

Oh, it shouldn't be too bad. The hardest part is managing all of those workers. And Monty's invasion force :rolleyes: is no match for our Macemen. They are just here to give our mace's an extra promotion. Or, give Monty 10g and he will go away ... your call ...

You better be right, because work put me in a lousy mood and I can not be held responsible for any and all wars I start this turn ... :mad: ;)

(Playing 11)

Turn 0 -- 1390 AD

I decide that removing Monty's forces will make me feel better. Unfortunately, one of our Maces dies in the assault (with ~90% odds!) :mad: ... after doing so, I negotiate a cease fire for free.

Demographically we're doing great, outside of Approval Rate, Soldiers, and Imports/Exports; the first is from prior whipping, I bet (does the AI get happiness bonuses at Monarch?), the second we're working on, and the last is due to some Open Borders with Mansa. Hrm, since Mansa is currently positioned to be our prime opponent in the future, I decide to cancel Open Borders with him. That moves us up to 4th.

Cyrus doesn't have Printing Press, so I trade it +200 gold to him for Engineering and Feudalism.

Boston can grow again, so I mm it out of stagnation.

Turn 1 -- 1400 AD

Monty and Mansa are now at war!

Seattle completes Granary, starts Theatre because it's now unhappy. I also send one of the swords at our border to it for Military Police.

Oh wait, I send the Maceman in a galley to Seattle. That'll keep them happy until the Sword arrives.

You were not kidding about the workers.

On the tech front, everyone but Izzy has Guilds.

Turn 2 -- 1410 AD

Well, Thucydides pegs us dead last in Power. Here are the rankings:
1st -- Mansa
2nd -- Mao
3rd -- Cyrus
4th -- Kublai
5th -- Izzy
6th -- Monty (wow!)
7th -- US

Mansa wants us to declare on Monty. I decline.

Gunpowder is in, start Chemistry. Mansa already has it.

New York: Catapult > Musket

You know, it's absolutely ridiculous how weak Isabella is. She's going down in 2 turns.

Turn 3 -- 1420 AD

Washington: Mace > Pike
Boston: Mace > Pike
Atlanta: Market > Barracks

Mansa adopts Free Market. Hrm. I don't reopen borders with him, though.

Oh no! Scythians' influence has grown, stealing our Bananas!

If I wasn't planning on war next turn before, I'm definitely now. Here's the Southern Expeditionary Force:
http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/8415/ctiv7f5ek.jpg

Turn 4 -- 1430 AD

San Francisco: Barracks > Forge

ATTACK! One worker is taken as the stack comes across on both sides.

Looks like there are troops concentrated in Santiago:
http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/6742/ctiv7g1yf.jpg

I verify Izzy and Kublai don't have Open Borders and use the Scout to um, scout, her Western border.

Turn 5 -- 1440 AD

No counterattack.

Boston: Pike > Pike (considering all the Horse Archers in Santiago, not a bad idea to have them in the stack)

Reduce Scythian to 33% defense. Mace kills Archer. Mace kills Spear.
Scythian is taken (100 gold). I keep it as a staging area for the attack.

One of the Archers from Scythian was bolting. I'm able to catch up and kill him. I pillage Fishing boats.

Assault on Murcia: Lose 1 Sword, Kill 2 Archers and a Spear. Keep it for the gold and because I'm running out of things to do with my workers over here.

Ok, Izzy has 4 Horse Archers and a Sword (from Santiago) across a river from the fortified stack in a jungle. Will she attack?

Turn 6 -- 1450 AD

She does, sacrificing 1 Horse Archer.

:smoke: Mao comes looking for Open Borders, I decide to go for it before realizing he has Mercantilism :rolleyes:

Washington: Pike > Pike
New York: Musket > Pike
Chicago: Market > Courthouse

Kill all the Horse Archers and Sword and Catapult nearby without a loss. Kill off an Explorer outside Murcia for good measure.

We're now #1 in score, and we've moved past Monty and Izzy in Power.

Santiago (our next target) is guarded by 2 archers, an axe, and a Jewish missionary. There are also 3 horse archers and 2 catapults a couple tiles South of Santiago. Not sure if they're heading to defend Santiago or attempt an attack of our position (Horse Archers can reach us, Cats can't).

There's a Sword and Cat SW of Seville approaching our position as well.

Turn 7 -- 1460 AD

Chemistry is in, start Guilds (due in 3). I can trade it around, but not really interesting in doing so.

Kublai Khan, seeing the way the wind is blowing, declares war on Izzy. He's going to get to Seville before we will. I make an attack on Santiago our priority...unfortunately there's a War Elephant in our way.

Hrm, Izzy has a Galley with 2 Horse Archers heading our way. I upgrade Gepid's Archer to Grenadier--just in case.

Our Catapult withdraws from Combat after wounding the War Elephant! Then a Catapult kills a Horse Archer! But then we lose the 3rd Catapult. Kill off everything else except for the War Elephant (down to 0.2) with the loss of only a wounded mace (I made a risky strike because I wanted to take out the War Elephant as well).

Kublai has troops heading towards Santiago as well as Seville, but there aren't many troops in either stack (5 towards Seville, 3 towards Santiago).

Turn 8 -- 1470 AD

Kublai Khan demands Chemistry, I give it to him, he's now friendly.

Washington, Boston: Pike > Grenadier

Islam has spread to our lands. I do not convert.

Teotihuacan has been captured by the Malinese Empire!

Isabella now has Longbows. Seville is still better defended than Santiago. Guess I attacked just in time.

War Weariness is starting to take a hold. Culture is at 20%, but more military police are needed.

Turn 9 -- 1480 AD

New York: Pike > Catapult
Atlanta: Barracks > Catapult
Gepid: Granary > Lighthouse

Hrm, Isabella is actually looking to strike at Ning-Hsia.

:coffee:

Turn 10 -- 1490 AD

Kublai Khan is foolish enough to think I'll trade him Horses. I trade him Cows for Gems instead.

Los Angeles: Forge > Barracks
Scythian starts a Theatre. Ditto Murcia.

Attack on Santiago. Kublai has already bombarded, so 2 strikes with my catapults gets defense down to 14%. One very wounded War Elephant, 2 Longbowmen, and an Axe are the defenders.

None of my odds look very good, I think I'll let Kublai take a stab at it first (he doesn't have enough troops to take it).

Turn 11 -- 1500 AD

Guilds come in. Start Banking (can be vetoed)
New York: Cat > Cat
Seattle: Theatre > Harbor

Santiago is bombarded down to 0%. Other Catapult attacks, does good amount of damage before Dying.

Mace defeats Longbow. Musket defeats Axe. Axe defeats Longbow. Pike defeats War Elephant. We capture Santiago.

Ok, I have a group of workers in Gepid. Keep them there until the galley with the Horse Archers depart.

It's up to the next player how they want to continue the war. Kublai pulled back from Seville to defend against the assault on Ning-Hsia, so that's a possibility for us to attack now.

Here's our new southern area:
http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/3793/ctiv7h3uo.jpg

Here's the save:
122358

Roster:
ChrTh > Just Played
Bede > UP
Methos > On Deck
Scowler
Maquis
Conroe

Don't worry too much about the cultural pressure around Scythian, it's pretty weak (like 9% Mongolian), so it should be banishable pretty quick (maybe hire an artist?).

Diplomatic idea of the Day: If you have the highest population, go for Mass Media, and then trade it to someone you're not in good relations with (and not many people like) and let them build the UN.

ChrTh

Apr 04, 2006, 07:16 PM

One more thing: The troops lingering outside Salamanca can probably head to Seville to help in an assault there, or you can send troops down to assault Salamanca. Seville is a better target, though, for now.

Conroe

Apr 04, 2006, 08:57 PM

If I wasn't planning on war next turn before, I'm definitely now.Personally, I did not feel that we were ready for war. I didn't think we had near enough cats. Obviously, I was wrong. You have had some tremendous success there, CT! And, we got a few licks in before she got longbows. :goodjob:

I pillage Fishing boats.I'm not sure I like this idea. I think it is OK to pillage strategic resources (iron, horses, etc.), but I would think we would want to keep the food resources so the cities do not starve. Definitely, though, absolutely NO pillaging of cottages! We want these captured cities to be able to pay their own way once they come out of revolt.

Assault on Murcia: ... Keep it for the gold and because ...Don't we want to keep all of the cities? The point of this war is to annex population. Hopefully it is our only war (well, real war anyway) during this game.

Islam has spread to our lands. I do not convert.This brings up an interesting point. At some point BEFORE Scientific Method is researched, we want to build one of each kind of Monastery. We are going to want to spread all of our religions to all of our cities for the happiness boost before building the UN. We don't need a Monastery in every city, just one for every religion.

War Weariness is starting to take a hold. Culture is at 20%, but more military police are needed.I say we ignore the war weariness. It will all go away once the war ends. In the meantime, keeping bumping the culture slider up until it hits 100% and we are out of money. Just run our economy straight into the ground! At that point, we can end the war. Hopefully, Izzy will be wiped out before that happens.

Guilds come in. Start Banking (can be vetoed)I liked Brother Bede's idea of beelining to Mass Media. To me, the only reason we research Banking is to get the free Great Merchant that comes with Economics. At 1500 gold for a trade mission, that may not be a bad idea.

It's up to the next player how they want to continue the war. Kublai pulled back from Seville to defend against the assault on Ning-Hsia, so that's a possibility for us to attack now.I want Madrid. Of course, the road to Madrid leads through Seville, doesn't it?

Don't worry too much about the cultural pressure around Scythian, it's pretty weak (like 9% Mongolian), so it should be banishable pretty quick (maybe hire an artist?).We need to hire an artist for at least 3 turns to get the border pop. After that ... well, I don't know. Start building culture buildings, maybe? It would be nice to pop a Great Artist for a culture bomb. I had Philly working on that, but I guess that Scythian can, as well.

Diplomatic idea of the Day: If you have the highest population, go for Mass Media, and then trade it to someone you're not in good relations with (and not many people like) and let them build the UN.Hopefully, by the time we research Mass Media, the AI are so far behind us in techs that it won't matter! :D

ChrTh

Apr 04, 2006, 09:13 PM

To me, the only reason we research Banking is to get the free Great Merchant that comes with Economics

Not happening. Mansa has Free Market.

I'm not sure I like this idea. I think it is OK to pillage strategic resources (iron, horses, etc.), but I would think we would want to keep the food resources so the cities do not starve. Definitely, though, absolutely NO pillaging of cottages! We want these captured cities to be able to pay their own way once they come out of revolt.

I did not know how long it would take to get to Santiago. My thought was to slow its growth to reduce the amount of whipping that could be done.

We need to hire an artist for at least 3 turns to get the border pop. After that ... well, I don't know. Start building culture buildings, maybe? It would be nice to pop a Great Artist for a culture bomb. I had Philly working on that, but I guess that Scythian can, as well.

Scythian has already popped once, so it'll take longer to get the second pop. That's why I started Theatre there.

ChrTh

Apr 04, 2006, 09:27 PM

As for city sites: Scythia and Santiago were too strategic to raze (plus Santiago was the Christian holy city). Murcia is a great city site, should be a good city long term. Seville is on the way to Madrid, and I believe they're both holy cities. Salamanca is probably a raze candidate.

Bede

Apr 06, 2006, 06:02 PM

Knew I forgot something, got it and playiung tonight.

Methos

Apr 06, 2006, 08:16 PM

Sorry guys, but this week has been extremely hectic for me. Have barely been able to keep up with discussions, let alone take part in them. Add to the hectic week is the fact I’ll be gone all weekend long. I’ve leaving Friday (April 7th) and getting back on Sunday (April 9th). Please skip me until than. Absolutely no internet access (I’ll be caving this weekend).

Thanks,
Methos

Bede

Apr 06, 2006, 09:23 PM

unfortunately I popped the wrong key and deleted my carefully crafted turn log.

In summary captured Seville and started to move south to both Madrid and Salamanca. Unfortunately it looks like the Khan will beat us to Madrid.

Traded Chemistry to Cyrus for Music and Philosophy and a map and some chump change, got a relations boost with him, and a leg towards Nationalism and the Constitution, Cyrus is now the undisputed tech king of the continent as he is well along the upper branch and has already taken Representation as his government civic. After banking came in started on Replaceable Parts but didn't make much progress as the war weariness thing kept me moving the budget back.

THe Great Merchant from Chicago is on his way to Persepolis and about halfway now (BTW GM's can move through closed borders as he is almost all the way across Monte's land).

Built the monasteries for our religions as we have more than enough troops on hand to finish the war with Isabella.

Worker actions focused on population building improvements (farms and chops for grocers and the like).

Our southern expansion and the military build up has pushed us well ahead of Mansa in score. All looks good for getting to our objective, and the Great Merchant Trade Mission should net us some serious gelt for learning stuff. And the impending end of the war with Issy will help as well.

We should probably end is when Salamanca and Madrid fall where they may, either to us or the Khan.

The same keystroke that wasted the log caused one more turn but the movement points are still there.

The progress of the war in pictures

The jackal corps move in behind Khan's forces on the gems hill
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a371/doconor/CTIV-7/1520.jpg

Issy sends out a raider
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a371/doconor/CTIV-7/1530.jpg
He dies on a pike.

Piling on at Seville
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a371/doconor/CTIV-7/1535.jpg

Issy's defenses at Seville
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a371/doconor/CTIV-7/1535_02.jpg

The defenses at Madrid against the advancing Khan
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a371/doconor/CTIV-7/1550.jpg

The advancing Americans at Salamanca
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a371/doconor/CTIV-7/1550_01.jpg

We also have a force coming down the forested hills towards Madrid, but they may not make it before Khan takes the town

Conroe

Apr 07, 2006, 08:28 AM

(BTW GM's can move through closed borders as he is almost all the way across Monte's land).I did not know that! Thanks for posting that tidbit, Bede! It looks like my ignorance of Great Merchants probably cost us a chunk of change on my last turnset. :sad: Sorry about that folks!

Roster Check:
ChrTh
Bede > Just Played
Methos > Requested a Skip
Scowler > UP
Maquis > On Deck
Conroe

ChrTh

Apr 08, 2006, 09:54 AM

@Maquis:

Scowler has requested a swap due to feast mode, can you take it today?

Maquis

Apr 08, 2006, 10:58 AM

The earliest I could get to it would be late tonight, but not sure that I can. I'm pu in both of my other SG's also. I'll update if I can take it tonight.

Scowler

Apr 09, 2006, 06:46 AM

Don't worry, Maquis. I have it now.

Scowler

Apr 10, 2006, 07:05 AM

Turns played; I won't have time to write up the report until later today.

Scowler

Apr 10, 2006, 11:31 AM

Turn 0 (1555 AD)
Boston begins: Bank
Murcia begins: Courthouse

IBT:
Atlanta's borders expand
Scythian grows: 5
Santiago's borders expand

Turn 1 (1560 AD)
Khan has kindly been throwing his troops against the city defenses so we have but a single axeman to deal with...

Battle of Salamanca
While attacking, Grenadier defeats (12.00/12): Spanish Axeman

http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/2193/civilization420060410112602208.jpg

Captured Salamanca (Isabella)

IBT:
Washington finishes: Grocer
Boston grows: 13
Los Angeles grows: 8
Scythian's borders expand
Santiago finishes: Work Boat
Confucianism has spread: Gepid
Izzy adopts Bureaucracy
Montezuma adopts Mercantilism

Turn 2 (1565 AD)
Khan has indeed beaten us to Madrid (Hindu holy city) :mad: Bede suggested that we seek peace with Izzy once Madrid and Salamanca had fallen, but I'm inclined to keep up the pressure a little longer. Having missed out on Madrid, I'm pretty sure I can snatch Barcelona (the Jewish holy city) from under Khan's nose. Judaism has a higher market penetration than Hinduism so could be more profitable; more importantly, since we are seeking a diplomatic victory it is in our interest to build up our population as much as possible. I also don't like the idea of Khan grabbing so much territory. His latest acquisition has bumped him up to third place in score, behind us and Mansa. It's a bit of a gamble, since our techological growth is being stunted while we have the culture slider up to counter war-weariness, but I think it will work to our benefit in the end.
Washington begins: Bank
Santiago begins: Courthouse

IBT:
New York finishes: Knight
Confucianism has spread: Philadelphia

Turn 3 (1570 AD)
Great Merchant arrives in Persepolis and conducts a trade mission for 1700 smackeroonies. A quick peak inside the city:

http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/3384/civilization420060410115044067.jpg

New York begins: Bank

IBT:
Tech learned: Replaceable Parts
Seattle's borders expand
Murcia grows: 6

Turn 4 (1575 AD)
Research begun: Liberalism
Seville begins: Theatre

IBT:
Boston finishes: Bank
Atlanta finishes: Grocer
Chicago's borders expand
Los Angeles finishes: Courthouse
Seville's borders expand

Turn 5 (1580 AD)
Boston begins: University
Los Angeles begins: Harbor

IBT:
Atlanta grows: 13
San Francisco finishes: Forge
Murcia's borders expand

Turn 6 (1585 AD)
San Francisco begins: Harbor

IBT:
Washington finishes: Bank
Salamanca's borders expand
Mao goes Free Market

Turn 7 (1590 AD)
Mansa asks for OB, but he is too unpopular to be worth the risk.
Washington begins: University
Salamanca begins: Theatre
While we have been moving our troops up into position Khan has been pounding the defenses in Barcelona. Unfortunately for him, he has now left himself without enough units to take the city; we, on the other hand, have no such problem...

Battle of Barcelona
Suicide cat causes collateral damage to 5 units and withdraws to safety
While attacking, Maceman defeats (6.48/8): Spanish Longbowman
While attacking, Maceman defeats (6.32/8): Spanish Longbowman
While attacking, Knight defeats (10.00/10): Spanish Spearman
While attacking, Knight defeats (8.60/10): Spanish Horse Archer
While attacking, Maceman defeats (8.00/8): Spanish Catapult
While attacking, Swordsman defeats (6.00/6): Spanish Chariot

http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/120/civilization420060410125343571.jpg

We also get 3 free workers to improve the surrounding area once borders expand - useful, considering there isn't much food available in the vicinity.

Izzy is now down to her last two cities: a pitiful size 2 collection of tents west of Barca, and Cordoba, a size 11 metropolis near Salamanca. It's not worth bothering with the size 2, but I'm pretty certain we can get Cordoba if we are cunning and let Khan do most of the work yet again. Fortunately, I left a couple of grens and a cat behind to get in place, and the knights should be able to ride back in time to help out. Khan also sent most of his forces towards Barcelona so there shouldn't be any danger of him taking Cordoba just yet.

IBT:
New York grows: 11
New York finishes: Bank
Seattle finishes: Harbor
Gepid finishes: Forge
Confucianism has spread: Los Angeles
Khan adopts Free Market

Turn 8 (1595 AD)
New York begins: University
Seattle begins: Aqueduct
Gepid begins: Harbor

IBT:
San Francisco grows: 7
Murcia finishes: Courthouse
Seville finishes: Theatre

Turn 9 (1600 AD)
Murcia begins: Lighthouse
Seville begins: Library

IBT:
Philadelphia grows: 14
Philadelphia finishes: Market
Atlanta finishes: Hindu Monastery
Chicago finishes: Grocer
Confucianism has spread: Washington

Turn 10 (1605 AD)
Philadelphia begins: Bank
Atlanta begins: Bank

Troops are now in place around Cordoba. As you can see, the defenses shouldn't present overwhelming difficulties (though beware: the city is on a hill):

http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/5936/civilization420060410135452434.jpg

It's all a matter of timing. Khan doesn't yet have enough units to take the city in a single assault so if you wait a bit for him to knock out another defender or two you should be able to use the cat for collateral (or crack the defenses if they have been rebuilt) and then take the city with the knights and gren. I've just bombarded the city defenses to 0% in order to tempt Khan to attack. Don't wait too long, though, as he has plenty of riflemen on the way.
Once we have taken Cordoba make peace with Izzy and take whatever you can get from her (she'll probably be wiped out in a couple of turns). Then you can turn down culture and turn up science; infrastructure has been beefed up as well this round so we should be in reasonable shape, even once our new acquisitions come online.

You may have noticed that Mao has been spamming our cities with Confused missionaries. Presumably he is intending to ask us to convert, but with Liberalism due next turn we will be able to switch to Free Religion (and Free Speech) and all his missionary work will actually help us ;)

Unfortunately, there were no opportunities for trading this round.

http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/7243/civilization420060410135904794.jpg

http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/3004/civilization420060410135915903.jpg

http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/5181/civilization420060410140008563.jpg

The save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/CTIV-7_AD-1605.Civ4SavedGame)

ChrTh

Apr 10, 2006, 02:37 PM

:thumbsup: We'll miss you Izzy!

Maquis, you're up, Conroe's on deck.

Conroe

Apr 10, 2006, 04:19 PM

:thumbsup: We'll miss you Izzy!It looks like we won't be getting her vote! :lol:

Maquis

Apr 11, 2006, 05:53 AM

I got it, I'll be playing later today. Doesn't look like Izzy will survive my turnset!

Maquis

Apr 11, 2006, 07:00 PM

First off, I can't seem to upload anything to imageshack, so sorry that there are no screenies! I can post them later if needed (and I can UL to imageshack)

As we say farewell to Izzy... I for one shed not a tear.

As I am looking at Cordoba, I do not see much in the way, I think we should be able to take it on my second turn, once a couple more troops are in place. I think we should keep the city, as it is in a decent spot, and we can get Whales from it.

Indeed, it falls on my second turn. Izzy is down to one craptacular city. Not sure if Khan will take it, he has a few units close by, but he seems to be more concerned with pillaging.

I decide to send part of our garrison in Barcelona to investigate Izzy's remaining defense.

Upon arriving at Toledo, I find one Longbow and one Spear. I think our mini-stack of a Mace, Sword, and Pike can take it.

Two attacks, no losses. Toledo is razed.

Oh, remind me someday to thank Khan for bombarding the defenses down...

And Izzy won't be voting for us, nor anyone else for that matter.

On the research side of things, after Liberalism came in, I set research to Astronomy. Looks like no one has it, and it's (eventually) on the path to the UN. Last turn, Astronomy came in, and I chose Steel next. Conroe, feel free to veto!

I made a couple trades, got Economics from Khan for Liberalism, and traded with Mao Liberalism + gold for Nationalism late in my turnset.

Turn 231 (1605 AD)
Tech learned: Liberalism
Seattle grows: 15
Los Angeles grows: 9
Scythian grows: 6
Santiago finishes: Courthouse

Turn 232 (1610 AD)
Grenadier defeats (12.00/12): Spanish Longbowman
Knight loses to: Spanish Spearman (1.48/4)
Knight defeats (6.90/10): Spanish Horse Archer
Knight defeats (7.00/10): Spanish Horse Archer
Knight defeats (8.40/10): Spanish Horse Archer
Grenadier defeats (12.00/12): Spanish Spearman
Judaism has spread: Cordoba (Spanish Empire)
Judaism has spread: Cordoba
Captured Cordoba (Isabella)
Research begun: Astronomy
Santiago begins: Granary

Turn 233 (1615 AD)
Tech learned: Economics
Los Angeles finishes: Harbor
Murcia finishes: Lighthouse
Seville's borders expand

Turn 234 (1620 AD)
Los Angeles begins: Bank
Murcia begins: Granary
Boston grows: 14
Boston finishes: University
Atlanta grows: 14

Turn 235 (1625 AD)
Swordsman defeats (0.48/6): Spanish Longbowman
Maceman defeats (3.84/8): Spanish Spearman
Judaism has spread: Toledo (Spanish Empire)
Judaism has spread: Toledo
Buddhism has spread: Toledo
Captured Toledo (Isabella)
Razed Toledo
Judaism has spread: Toledo
Buddhism has spread: Toledo
Toledo lost
Boston begins: Theatre
Washington finishes: University

Turn 236 (1630 AD)
Washington begins: Confucian Monastery
Barcelona begins: Theatre
Boston finishes: Theatre
Chicago finishes: Islamic Monastery
Barcelona's borders expand

Turn 237 (1635 AD)
Chicago begins: University
Boston begins: Heroic Epic
Washington finishes: Confucian Monastery
Seattle grows: 16
Gepid finishes: Harbor
Scythian grows: 7

Turn 238 (1640 AD)
Washington begins: Theatre
Gepid begins: Courthouse
Scythian finishes: Theatre
Santiago finishes: Granary
Seville finishes: Library

Turn 239 (1645 AD)
Scythian begins: Granary
Santiago begins: Library
Seville begins: Bank
Tech learned: Astronomy
Washington finishes: Theatre
New York finishes: University
Gepid grows: 13
Salamanca finishes: Theatre
Cordoba's borders expand

Turn 240 (1650 AD)
Tech learned: Nationalism
Research begun: Steel
Washington begins: Observatory
New York begins: Observatory
Cordoba begins: Granary
Salamanca begins: Courthouse
Seville begins: Forbidden Palace

As you can see, I started the Forbidden Palace in Seville my last turn. It seemed like the best place, and will only take ~13 turns.

Also, I left a couple artists in some of the spanish cities, I'm trying to get enough culture to fend off Khan's borders for a bit. These should be fired soon...

Finally, the save:

ChrTh

Apr 11, 2006, 07:14 PM

Are we at the point where we might be able to avoid war (except in limited skirmishes) for the rest of the game? Can we win this via diplomacy?

Maquis

Apr 12, 2006, 05:38 AM

The one thing that worries me is who our opponent would be in the vote. After the war with Izzy, I think Khan might have the highest population, and of course he is our best friend. Right now Mao is at war with Monry, and he took one of Monty's cities during my turns. Maybe we can look for a way to get Mao a bigger population, so he would be our opponent.

ChrTh

Apr 12, 2006, 06:11 AM

I need to double-check the save, but I'm thinking Mansa would be our best opponent. We do definitely need to start thinking about it.

Maquis

Apr 12, 2006, 07:40 AM

Yes, I agree that Mansa would be best. He's not well liked by anyone IIRC. I too would have to look at the save to see how large Mansa population-wise.

Conroe

Apr 12, 2006, 09:19 AM

And Izzy won't be voting for us, nor anyone else for that matter.Hey! Nobody saved any :hammer: for me! You couldn't leave me a lone Spearman in that last city? That is just not right! :D Oh well, it is probably for the best. With my RNG, I would have lost a CRIII Grenadier trying to take out that lone spear. :lol:

Are we at the point where we might be able to avoid war (except in limited skirmishes) for the rest of the game? Can we win this via diplomacy?That would be my presumption. That power graph that Scowler posted may say otherwise, though. We definitely will need to keep building at least some troops.

Maybe we can look for a way to get Mao a bigger population, so he would be our opponent.Interesting thought, whether it be Mao or Mansa. The only way that I know to help a civ grow bigger, though, is to join them in a war. Is this something that we want to start planning?

Maquis

Apr 12, 2006, 12:23 PM

The only way that I know to help a civ grow bigger, though, is to join them in a war. Is this something that we want to start planning?

We could... As I noted earlier, Mansa is at war with Monty right now. We could possibily join him and let Mansa take Monty's cities.

Conroe

Apr 12, 2006, 02:19 PM

Who's the biggest civ?

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/CTIV-7_Population.JPG

We are! Followed by Mao, Mansa, and Khan. But, of course, that is only meaningful if the election were to be held today. So, who has the most growth potential? Well, just eyeballing the numbers above, it looks to me that Khan has the most growth potential. Cyrus is probably maxed out and Mao is not too far from max population. But, Khan and Mansa both have room to grow.

And, as Maquis noted, Mansa is currently at war with Monty. If Mansa takes the last two Aztec cities, a very real possibility, his population would be close to Mao's but with a lot more growth potential. If that happens, Mansa will most likely be our opponent.

Below is a look at the trade relations and what each civ thinks of us. I've also summarized what they think of each other.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/CTIV-7_Relations.JPG

As you can see, we are on good terms with Mao, Khan, and Cyrus. If the elections were held today, surely at least one of those three would vote for us. It would be nice if we could keep all three of those guys happy with us. Mao and Khan shouldn't be a problem, but Cyrus may be a bit tricky.

I'm not really sure of our best course of action. But until it is clearly evident who our opponent will be in the UN elections, I feel that we should at least attempt to keep relations status quo. What does the rest of the team think?

ChrTh

Apr 12, 2006, 02:33 PM

Hrmmm...a bit of a bind, methinks. Khan would vote for us, I think, instead of Mao, because I think we should be about +3 ahead of Mao in relations with Khan. Mao would vote for us, but of course he'd vote for himself. Us+Khan is only 50%.

The -1 for "declaring war on our friend" should disappear in time from Cyrus. Traded with Worst Enemies ... who is Persia's worst enemy again? Oh good, Monty. If we have any active deals with him (I don't think we do) we should cancel.

Civics:
Favorite Civic
--------------
Mao -- State Property
Cyrus -- Representation
Kublai -- Hereditary Rule

We're going to want Mao, Cyrus, and Kublai all +10 or higher with us. Even if one of the three is our opponent, as long as our score is higher than with the opponent, we should win with 2 of these joining us.

Hereditary Rule and Representation are opposite; we can only get a Civics bonus from one or the other. State Property can give us the bonus from Mao. Obviously we should switch based on our opponent: if it's Khan, switch to Representation, if it's Cyrus, switch to Hereditary Rule.

Any demands from the 3 should probably be caved into. Even if Khan appears to be our opponent, you never know when someone will pass him. Obviously we don't want to declare war against any of the 3, so hopefully they won't fight each other.

ChrTh

Apr 12, 2006, 02:35 PM

We should also try to trade more with Cyrus to build up our "trade relations have been forthright"

Maquis

Apr 12, 2006, 05:05 PM

Well, long term, if we want to be sure that Mansa is our opponent, is to gift him a city or two at the end... just to get his pop up to assure he's our opponent.

ChrTh

Apr 12, 2006, 05:13 PM

Well, long term, if we want to be sure that Mansa is our opponent, is to gift him a city or two at the end... just to get his pop up to assure he's our opponent.

Won't necessarily work. I played around with that in CTIV-3, and the AI wouldn't take any cities.

Trading Mass Media to Mansa in the hopes he'll build UN might be more efficient.

Maquis

Apr 12, 2006, 06:17 PM

Giveing him Mass Media would be a good idea. Maybe we could try to give him a Great Engineer as well :lol:

Conroe

Apr 13, 2006, 12:36 AM

Just finished playing my turns. I will post my report in the morning.

Trading Mass Media to Mansa in the hopes he'll build UN might be more efficient.Not a bad idea. The only issue that I see is all of the happiness wonders between Electricity and Mass Media. You've got Broadway, Hollywood, RockNRoll, and Eiffel Tower. You run the risk that Mansa will be too busy building these wonders to bother building the UN.

Conroe

Apr 13, 2006, 09:24 AM

Situation Assessment: The Spanish-American War is over and it is time to consolidate our gains. We picked up 7 cities in the campaign. At this time, all of them are out of revolt and all but two are paying their own maintenance costs. All 17 cities are building infrastructure of some sort or another. We are definitely in full builder mode!

The demographics screen looks pretty good, as well. We have 1st place rankings in GNP, production, food, land, population and health. Our happiness numbers a bit low and we are ranked last in troops. We cannot afford to neglect our military, less we become victim of a rival civ.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/CTIV-7_1650AD_Barcelona.JPG

Frankly, I'm concerned about Barcelona. It is cut off from the rest of our empire by Khan's spoils of the Spanish War. If Khan were to declare on us, we would probably be unable to send reinforcements to Barcelona.

Maquis was concerned about the culture pressure that Khan's cities was putting on our newly acquired lands. At the moment, it is manageable, but Scythian, Seville, and Salamanca are losing tiles to Khan. We will get a culture boost when we adopt the Free Speech civic. In the meantime, cultural improvements and religions should help us out.

Six of the possible seven religions have made it to our lands. Buddhism is the only religion that we lack. We have monasteries built for every religion except Judaism. We also have the holy cities for Judaism and Christianity. As an interesting side note, I notice that Izzy founded 3 religions -- and she did not build a single shrine! That's right, no shrines means no shrine income. And having built no temples, we cannot hire priests to start generating prophet points.

Since we are running the Free Religion civic, we are going to need to spread all 6 of our religions. Priority should be given to Judaism and Christianity, of course. But, maximum exposure in the border cities will help with the Mongolian Culture Wars.

According to the auditors, our financial house is in excellent shape. We have 1309 gold in the treasury and are spending it at -90gpt with 80% on the research slider and the culture slider is turned off. Research is set to Steel, due in 4 turns, with no beakers invested. Maquis told me that I should feel free to veto the Steel research. Cannons would sure be nice; access to railroads would be even better. But, none of that is on the road to Mass Media, so I probably will change it.

Overall, I would have to say things are looking pretty good. At this point, we just need to build our population while heading towards getting the UN built. Maquis has the majority of our workers out building farms to support the Spanish population. After that is done, I guess we can start converting the mines to windmills for the extra food. And, of course, we will need to spread the faith!

Turn 0 - 1650AD: I start this show by starting research towards Mass Media, due in ~40 turns. Of course, a bunch of pre-requisite techs are also queued up. The first, of which, is Scientific Method. Since Scientific Method, due in 3 turns, will obsolete the monasteries, I need to quickly get a Jewish Monastery built in the next 3 turns.

That brings us to Seville -- the only Jewish city capable of building a Monastery in 3 turns. Problem is, the Forbidden Palace is queued up here already. Seville is a good spot for the FP and the city could use the +4cpt in pushing back Khan's borders.

Well, I can either delay Scientific Method or delay the Forbidden Palace. Not sure I like either decision, but I decide to delay FP. After SciMeth is Physics. I don't know if the free Scientist is still available from Physics, but I sure would like to have him -- we still haven't built an Academy! :crazyeye:

Before pressing Enter, I MM a couple of the cities. Nothing major, as everything looked pretty good on the inherited turn.

Turn 1 - 1655AD: Philly completes a Bank and starts on a Christian Missionary. Murcia completes a Granary and starts a Forge.

Turn 2 - 1660AD: Atlanta completes a Bank and starts on a University.

Turn 3 - 1665AD: Scientific Method comes in -- Physics is already queued up ... We have 3 sources of oil: one is in Santiago underneath a hamlet improvement :cool:; the one at Salamanca is on a previously worthless desert tile in the city; and, lastly, outside of New York's city radius in a desert tile. All of that worthless desert at New York and oil shows up on the lone desert tile that isn't within the city radius! :crazyeye:

The best news, though, is nobody knows Physics, yet! It will take us 7 turns to get there, and I'm not sure if one of the AI have already started researching it. I bump the research to 90%, bringing Physics down to 6 turns.

Seville completes a Jewish Monastery, in the nick of time, and starts on the Forbidden Palace. The monastery overflow shaves a turn off of the FP build.

IBT: Cyrus adopts Emancipation. Most cities should be able to handle the unhappiness. Seattle, though, is going to have problems.

Turn 4 - 1670AD: Philadelphia completes a Christian Missionary and starts another one. Christianity has been spread to Scythian. A Bank is constructed in Los Angeles and work begins on a Market next.

Meanwhile, our war correspondent brings news from the Aztec front lines. I may have misspoken in an earlier post when I said that Mansa should be able to take out Monty.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/CTIV-7_1670AD_Texcoco.JPG

Mansa only brought 2 Cavalry against this city. :shake:

Turn 5 - 1675AD: Washington completes an Observatory and begins Grenadier training. The Heroic Epic (our first wonder!) is built in Boston and this city also begins Grenadier training. Can you believe it? Five turns and I'm only now beginning to build troops. :D

Gepid completes a Courthouse and begins construction of a Market. Barcelona completes its Theatre and starts on a Library.

Meanwhile, Confucianism is spread to Boston compliments of a Mao missionary.

IBT: Mao wants Scientific Method. I really hate to do it, but I go ahead and give it to him. This bumps us up to Friendly from Pleased. I decide to return the favor and ask him for a free tech, either Constitution or Rifling. The SOB declines on both!

Turn 6 - 1680AD: Santiago completes a Library and starts constructing a Harbor.

IBT: Khan comes calling with a very lopsided deal. I negotiate and sell him Astronomy for 800 gold (all he has).

Turn 7 - 1685AD: Boston turns out a Grenadier and continues to train more.

Turn 8 - 1690AD: New York completes an Observatory and joins Washington and Boston in Grenadier training. Philadelphia has trained a Christian Missionary and continues with another one. Scythian completes a Granary and starts on a Library.

San Francisco constructes a Harbor and begins a University. Unfortunately, it will not be completed before the game is over. The city is currently MM for growth and is only generating 1 hammer/turn as a result.

Turn 9 - 1695AD: Physics is learned and with it we get a free Great Scientist. We have a single source of Uranium. It is between Boston and San Francisco outside the radius of both cities. Next up is Electricity for 7 turns. The Great Scientist constructs an Academy in Washington.

Another Grenadier is trained in Washington. Salamanca completes a Granary and starts on a Courthouse. Cordoba also completes a Granary and then starts on a Library.

Turn 10 - 1700AD: :coffee:

An uneventful turnset. Our population only grew slightly during my set. Mao still has the highest population of all the AI.

Keep an eye on Seattle. It is the only city that has an issue with the emancipation penalty. It has almost completed the queued Aquaduct and could probably use a Market next. I stagnated growth to get some hammers going. I've also sent a couple more troops. This has provided some relief.

Also, I failed to notice during my turns that Gepid needs a Work Boat for the clams.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/CTIV-7_1700AD_TechTrades.JPG

There are some trade possibilities available. We have a monopoly on Physics. Khan lacks Scientific Method and would be willing to give up either Constitution or Rifling. Personally, I like Constitution better, as it leads to Democracy. Mansa is willing to trade Communism. It would be nice because of the State Property civic which, besides the diplomatic ramifications that CT noted, gives an extra food for our watermills.

Mass Media is looking to be done in 24 turns. If all goes well, this is most likely my last set of turns in this game. Either Scowler or Maquis will be overseeing our victory election. This has certainly been a fun game!

ChrTh

Apr 13, 2006, 10:08 AM

IBT: Mao wants Scientific Method. I really hate to do it, but I go ahead and give it to him. This bumps us up to Friendly from Pleased. I decide to return the favor and ask him for a free tech, either Constitution or Rifling. The SOB declines on both!

This is unavoidable in order to win diplomacy. It's almost worthless having a tech advantage because you will be pestered (although you get nice bonuses when you do give into a demand).

ROSTER
ChrTh > UP
Bede > On Deck
Methos
Scowler
Maquis
Conroe > Just Played

ChrTh

Apr 13, 2006, 10:17 AM

NOTE ON PATCH 1.61

I will not be upgrading to the new patch for any of the current CTIV games.

Conroe

Apr 13, 2006, 04:11 PM

I don't think it will matter for this game, but ...

I will be unavailable during the Easter holiday. Please skip me if my turn comes up. I will be returning on Sunday the 16th of April.

ChrTh

Apr 13, 2006, 06:55 PM

Turn 0 -- 1700 AD

Some Civ3 style trading in the cards?

Physics to Mansa for Steel. No effect on diplomacy.
Sci Meth of Kublai for Constitution, WM and 10 gold. No effect on diplomacy.

Democracy and Corporation are now available to trade next turn, so I hope no one trades Physics around ...

You know, I don't think Mao hates Mansa. I trade Mansa Rice for 8gpt. And I open borders.

Everything looks OK.

Turn 1 -- 1705 AD

We are not the Most Advanced Civilization in the World. :sad:

Philadelphia: Christian Missionary > Observatory
Santiago: Harbor > Bank

Trade Steel to Kublai for Corporation plus 40 gold.
Neither Mao or Cyrus will trade Democracy yet, so I hold off on trading them Physics.

Christianity spreads in New York.

I didn't notice all them Whales around Cordoba. I start a fishing boat there.

I renegotiate Wines to Kublai, getting it up to 9gpt.

Turn 2 -- 1710 AD

Cyrus demands Physics. I give it to him. I then cancel the Pigs deal and instead trade him Bananas for 7gpt (increasing by 3gpt).

Seattle: Aqueduct > Market
New York, Boston: Grenadier > Grenadier

Since I don't think I can hold Physics long, I trade it to Kublai for Rifling, 20 gold, and WM.

I make a gamble and revolt to Representation and Free Speech.

Turn 3 -- 1715 AD

Come out of revolution. We're making about 21gpt more now. Gepid is unhappy, but already building Market. Mao, funny enough, makes the same revolutionary choices.

Kublai has dropped to Pleased (+9). Cyrus is getting friendlier now. Kublai is still happier with us than with Mao (since Mao revolted too). I donate Sugar to Kublai. I unfortunately have nothing to donate Cyrus.

Turn 4 -- 1720 AD

Murcia: Forge > Library
Barcelona: Library > Bank
Seville: Forbidden Palace > Bank (Ah, that's why gpt just jumped about 30)

:coffee:

Turn 5 -- 1725 AD

Boston: Grenadier > Rifle
Cordoba: Workboat > Library

:coffee:

Turn 6 -- 1730 AD

Electricity comes in. Start Radio.

Whales come on line. Gepid is no longer unhappy. Seattle is allowed to grow again.

Ok, since I know I won't be able to hold the monopoly long (and I'm more interested in building Eiffel with Radio than Broadway), I trade Electricity to Mansa for Communism, Divine Right, 80 gold and WM. Someone else is bound to request it, and we need to give in. But I really want to get us to State Property.

...but I have to wait a turn.

Turn 7 -- 1735 AD

Mansa wants us to join in war against Monty. I say NO since we're not cultivating him.

Cyrus comes up with a stickier proposal: he wants us to stop trading with Kublai. Dammit. After all I've done this turn to build up relations with Cyrus, we're about to get a penalty. I decline.

Boston: Rifle > Rifle
Chicago: University > Bank
Washington: Grenadier > Rifle

I start sleeping some worker pairs.

Turn 8 -- 1740 AD

Los Angeles: Market > Grocer

Cyrus completes Broadway ... WOW, must've had a GE hanging around.

Turn 9 -- 1745 AD

We've revolted to State Property. Saves us like 60gpt.

Mao suddenly remembers Mansa is his worst enemy? :confused: Still pleased with him.

Turn 10 -- 1750 AD

Boston: Rifle > Rifle
Santiago: Bank > Market
Seville: Bank > Barracks
New York: Grenadier > Rifle

I cancel the deals with Mansa.

Ok, I'm hoping I've moved us closer to a diplo victory. Might take some work, but it's still doable I believe.

Democracy would only take 3 turns...might be worth the diversion in order to get Emancipation since the penalty is starting to hit us.

Might want to start thinking about building some of the National Wonders. It seems like we don't have that many good production cities, though--Boston and Seville seem best. We also might want to consider not going straight for Mass Media by getting some of the industrial techs.

Methos is up!

Here's the save:
123335

ChrTh

Apr 16, 2006, 02:23 PM

Did Methos disappear? :hmm: ... actually, I think Bede is supposed to be up anyway.

Bede

Apr 16, 2006, 07:32 PM

I got it, I play it. I did take Methos earlier spot so I can certainly do it again

Methos

Apr 16, 2006, 07:57 PM

Whoops. Didn't realize it was my turn. Go ahead Bede.

Methos

Apr 16, 2006, 08:09 PM

NOTE ON PATCH 1.61

I will not be upgrading to the new patch for any of the current CTIV games.

Crap! Just now noticed this. Looks like I'll have to add a second install to finish this game out. Hmm, looks like I really jumped the gun as my other SG is also sticking with 1.52. :lol:

Edit: Had to patch due to the MTDG.

Bede

Apr 17, 2006, 07:40 AM

Turn 260 (1750 AD)

Turn 261 (1755 AD)
Scythian's borders expand not at all as the cultural pressure from the Khan is just too great.

Turn 262 (1760 AD)
Tech learned: Radio so I detour to Democracy
Seville's borders expand again to little effect, as the Khan is just too culturally powerful

Turn 263 (1765 AD)

Turn 264 (1770 AD)
Tech learned: Democracy and so back to Mass Media after a civics change to Emancipation and Universal Suffrage.

Turn 265 (1775 AD)

Turn 266 (1780 AD)

Turn 267 (1785 AD)

Turn 268 (1790 AD)
Tech learned: Mass Media and just in time as Mao is keeping pace with us. Having learned both Radio and Mass Media in the last six turns

Isaac Newton (Great Scientist) born in Gepid. Not much to do with him so he is parked in the food rich town (Seattle) to the east of Gepid

Turn 269 (1795 AD)
Research begun: Biology but research is off to build cash for rushing both the UN and the Happy Cultural Wonders.

Washington begins: The Eiffel Tower
Seattle finishes: Market finally it gets rid of its anarcho-syndicalists.
Barcelona's borders expand and we pick up another source of furs

Turn 270 (1800 AD)
Seattle begins: Taoist Temple for the happiness, they are still just a couple bricks shy of a riot
Boston begins: The United Nations
New York begins: Rifleman
Washington begins: Rifleman

Health and happiness and population growth are the watchwords now. I can't tell if the UN is at risk to Mao's production capability, we will have enough cash in hand to rush in about 5 turns or so. Even if he builds it our population almost guarantees our election as SecGen. And there is the key to the final vistory: population. We should concentrate on growth improvements (meaning Biology next for the enhanced farms)and health and happiness buildings. Once the UN is built we will also need to push the research slider as high as it can go so we have trade bait to start a war against somebody, maybe Mao. It would be best if we didn't fight in it just instigate it.

ChrTh

Apr 17, 2006, 07:45 AM

Closer to victory (I hope)! Scowler, you're up, Maquis is on deck.

Conroe

Apr 17, 2006, 09:02 AM

I trade Electricity to Mansa for Communism, Divine Right, 80 gold and WM.
...
But I really want to get us to State Property.
Tech learned: Democracy and so back to Mass Media after a civics change to Emancipation and Universal Suffrage.
I may have missed it somewhere, but did we revolt to State Property somewhere?

We will get extra food from the watermills with State Propety. Or is the plan to farm them over once Biology comes in?

ChrTh

Apr 17, 2006, 09:13 AM

I may have missed it somewhere, but did we revolt to State Property somewhere?

Ah yep:

We've revolted to State Property. Saves us like 60gpt

Revolting to Universal Sufferage is going to cost us when it comes to the vote. We'll need to switch back to Representation (if Kublai is the opponent) or Hereditary Rule (if Cyrus is). If Mao is the opponent, choose based on population.

Bede

Apr 17, 2006, 09:24 AM

Revolting to Universal Sufferage is going to cost us when it comes to the vote. We'll need to switch back to Representation (if Kublai is the opponent) or Hereditary Rule (if Cyrus is). If Mao is the opponent, choose based on population.

Inerresting. I checked the relationships screens after the revolt and didn't see any civics hits. But I wanted US for the Cash RUsh potential as we really don't have the production right now.

ChrTh

Apr 17, 2006, 09:31 AM

Inerresting. I checked the relationships screens after the revolt and didn't see any civics hits. But I wanted US for the Cash RUsh potential as we really don't have the production right now.

I'd have to check the save, but we probably lost a +1-3 bonus with Cyrus.

The switch to US is understandable--yeah, our Production is just not good. We just might need to switch back because we may need the "Wisely Chosen Your Civics" bonus.

It'd be so much easier if Mansa would just past Mao in population ...

Kikinit

Apr 17, 2006, 09:35 AM

Lurkers comment:
At least it's only by civics in this game that you've gone to US and can reverse it later to get the relationship boost of your friends favorite civics. As ChrTh can testify, I made the fatal mistake in CTIV-3 of doing that change through the UN which was NOT reversible... :smoke:

Methos

Apr 17, 2006, 02:54 PM

...of doing that change through the UN which was NOT reversible... :smoke:

Can you clarify this please? Are you saying once the UN is built we shouldn't switch civics, or what?

ChrTh

Apr 17, 2006, 03:05 PM

Can you clarify this please? Are you saying once the UN is built we shouldn't switch civics, or what?

A couple of the UN Resolutions are for a civic type; for example, y'all can vote to make everyone have Universal Sufferage or Environmentalism. If one of these pass, you're automatically switched to it and you can't switch back. Because we were forced to go to Universal Sufferage, we were unable to switch to Hereditary Rule where we would've gotten "Pleased by your Civics choices" bonuses from several Civs.

Kikinit

Apr 17, 2006, 05:29 PM

Lurker's reply:
What he ^^^^^ said.

We had deliberately changd civics to match our allies favourites and thus get the relationship boost that comes with that. I had a UN vote come up and instead of choosing the sensible option of no vote, I chose UnivSuff which switched everyone to it and thus we lost 3-4 in our relationship with 2 people and diplomatic victory went out the window.

Conroe

Apr 17, 2006, 05:47 PM

and thus we lost 3-4 in our relationship with 2 people and diplomatic victory went out the window.Ouch! Thanks for the heads-up warning! I, for one, had not considered that. I guess we definitely don't want any civics related UN votes.

Methos

Apr 17, 2006, 06:01 PM

Bede

Apr 17, 2006, 07:03 PM

Anyone know of another way to run two versions of [civ4] on my computer? When I installed [civ4] I did it with the user only install. I've already tried creating another user account (Windows XP Media Edition) and installing it there. That didn't work.

I also tried doing the copy the [civ4] folder to another folder, but that didn't work either. It somewhat did, but caused a lot of problems.

Is there a better way, or is there something I'm missing?

Unhide hidden files and go looking for a Firaxis folder in the Application Data directory. That at least worked for me but I am winning W2000Pro, so I am not sure if XP is structured the same, or whether C-iv sees the two systems the same way.

Methos

Apr 17, 2006, 08:30 PM

Unhide hidden files and go looking for a Firaxis folder in the Application Data directory. That at least worked for me but I am winning W2000Pro, so I am not sure if XP is structured the same, or whether C-iv sees the two systems the same way.

I unhid them a long time ago, when I copied the folder. It somewhat works only the two separate games mess with each other. Saved games get moved back and forth, shortcuts change, and little glitches happen. It's not worth the hassle and frustration of running a copied game. I believe I should not have installed it using 'this user' only, but that was the only way (at that time) I could get the game to accept the GOTM games.

ChrTh

Apr 17, 2006, 08:31 PM

Ok, so if Methos can get the old version to work, he's up, or it's Scowler ... am I getting that correct? (It's been quite an exhausting weekend and I've yet to recover)

Methos

Apr 17, 2006, 08:40 PM

Give me until tomorrow to see if I can get 1.52 up and running. If I can't I'll let you know. So this is a 'sorta got it'.

Methos

Apr 18, 2006, 06:43 PM

Ok, I got the dual install to work. So this is the official 'I got it'. Thanks for waiting.

Methos

Apr 19, 2006, 08:42 PM

Since I reinstalled I’ve lost the autologger, oh well, just do it by hand.

Turn #0 (1800 AD): Did a little MM’ing to increase growth. Mao appears to be our opponent and he doesn’t seem to have as good of relations as we do. I guess we’ll find out at the first election.

Santiago Market>Theatre. Since we’re going to try and max population I figure we’ll probably have to up the culture slider to keep everyone happy.
Barcelona Courthouse>Observatory.

Turn #1 (1802 AD): Nothing much to tell, except we should be able to rush the UN in a couple of turns.

Atlanta Observatory>Theatre. Chicago Theatre>Observatory. Los Angeles Grocer>Theatre. Gepid Aqueduct>Theatre. Seville Rifleman>Observatory.

Turn #2 (1804 AD): Looks like my Pepsi is empty, need another one…

Texcoco has been captured by the Mali.

Turn #3 (1806 AD): We have enough cash to rush the UN. It’ll cost 4,281 gold. I raise our research to 90% which gets us Biology in three turns. I also emphasize food in all cities. The dogs wanted out, so I got a Pepsi since I was up.

Boston UN>Ironworks (apparently it was already in the queue). DC Rifleman>Rifleman. Murcia University>Harbor. Santiago Theatre>Observatory.

Turn #4 (1808 AD): Now that I have my Pepsi, I’m getting hungry. Hmm, what’s in the frig?

NY Rifleman>Rifleman. Philly Aqueduct>Theatre. Atlanta Theatre>Hindu Temple.

Turn #5 (1810 AD): Not really doing anything…

Biology>Steam Power (in two)

Los Angeles Theatre>Observatory. Gepid Theatre>Observatory. Cordoba University>Theatre.

Turn #6 (1812 AD): Getting sleep, and hungry.

Mansa comes asking for our help by giving him Radio. I’m not too sure, but decide to agree to it. He upgrades from Cautious to Pleased.

San Francisco University>Theatre. The vote comes up for Sec. General …

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/CTIV7_Sec_Gen_vote.JPG

Turn #7 (1814 AD): Can’t wait any longer, going to cook something.

Mansa comes calling again, only this time he wants us to declare on Monte for him. I decline the offer and Mansa becomes cautious towards us again. Cyrus wants to trade one of his hit musicals for one of our furs. He doesn’t have very good relations with Mao so I agree to his terms to keep him happy with us.

Steam Power>Railroad. We do have coal, two sources to be exact. One has a windmill on it and is in a city radius. I’d rather not mess with that one. The other is outside of any city radius, but within our borders. Workers have been dispatched [read: on GoTo orders] to its location.

DC Rifleman>Rifleman. Philly Theatre>University. Murcia Harbor>Observatory.

And the vote is in!

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/CTIV7_UN_vote.JPG

As expected, we have been elected Sec. General.

Turn #8 (1816 AD):

Mansa asks us to convert to Free Market. I hit no without thinking about it. My mind is on the pizza in the oven. Need to stay on track. Edit: Good thing I said no, as I had forgotten State Property was in the same section as Free Market. Edit 2: Timer went off. The pizza is done!!!!

Seville Observatory>University.

Turn #9 (1818 AD):

Mansa comes calling again!! This time he wants to give us Military Tradition and 280 gold for Mass Media. I see no reason not to, so I agree.

NY Rifleman>Rifleman. Salamanca Barracks>Rifleman. Cordoba Theatre>Observatory.

Turn #10 (1820 AD): Three slices down, and more to go…

Notes: Never start playing a turnset when you're hungry. Cook first, rather than during.

Roster:
ChrTh
Bede
Methos- Just Played
Scowler- Up
Maquis- On Deck
Conroe

ChrTh

Apr 19, 2006, 08:48 PM

F#*#!

Mao is too far ahead of everybody. Barring him losing some cities, I don't think he gets passed. We're going to have to plan on Mao being our opponent for the rest of the game. Therefore State Property isn't as crucial.

Ok, what do we need to do to get Mansa more on our side? The answer: Free Markets. Kublai Khan has more votes, so Hereditary Rule is probably the better Civics choice...unless we think Representation will get us Cyrus? Without looking at the save, we need 2 of the 3: Kublai, Cyrus or Mansa.

ChrTh

Apr 19, 2006, 09:16 PM

Number of Votes required to win: 411

Number we have: 236
Number we need: 175

Kublai plus Cyrus would be enough.
Kublai is pleased, but +5
Cyrus is also pleased and +5

We need to get Kublai and Cyrus up to +10 ... this is going to be tough.

How about this: We know Mansa and Cyrus love each other, how about working on them? Cancel all deals with Kublai and Mao (and heck if they end up declaring war, we'll just need to be sure we can take 'em). Revolt to Representation, and Pacifism first, and then next turn convert to Islam. After 5 turns revolt to Free Markets as well (or get it via the UN?)

Not sure how good this idea is ... anyone have something better?

Maquis

Apr 19, 2006, 09:20 PM

Ok, looks like both Mansa and Cyrus voted for us in the Sec. General vote. So what's the chance they both will vote for us in the dilpo vote? The first vote we had 64%, so that will give us the win.

I think we just need to try to do everything we can in the next few turns to get both mansa and Cyrus to vote for us. Change civics as ChrTh said... any point in gifting anything to either at this point?

ChrTh

Apr 19, 2006, 09:22 PM

Ok, looks like both Mansa and Cyrus voted for us in the Sec. General vote. So what's the chance they both will vote for us in the dilpo vote? The first vote we had 64%, so that will give us the win.

I think we just need to try to do everything we can in the next few turns to get both mansa and Cyrus to vote for us. Change civics as ChrTh said... any point in gifting anything to either at this point?

Chances are nil they'll vote for us at this point. From experience, I think who they vote for in SecGen is based on the relative relationship between the 2 candidates ... for victory, however, I think you have to be +10 with them to vote for you.

Gifting will help, but we might be better off waiting for them to ask us to gift something. Trade some of the stuff we get back from Kublai and Mao, definitely, but keep some stuff in reserve.

Conroe

Apr 19, 2006, 10:07 PM

Ok, looks like both Mansa and Cyrus voted for us in the Sec. General vote. So what's the chance they both will vote for us in the dilpo vote? The first vote we had 64%, so that will give us the win.I agree with Maquis. Let's put it to a vote and see if they will vote for us to win.

Chances are nil they'll vote for us at this point. From experience, I think who they vote for in SecGen is based on the relative relationship between the 2 candidates ... for victory, however, I think you have to be +10 with them to vote for you.I've never done a diplomatic win, so I really don't know much about the subject. But, I don't recall ever reading that you need a +10 to get a vote. In fact, I was thinking that in CTIV-2 we got JC's vote without being at a +10 in relations. Although, I could be mistaken.

Gifting will help, but we might be better off waiting for them to ask us to gift something. Trade some of the stuff we get back from Kublai and Mao, definitely, but keep some stuff in reserve.I've read that last minute gifting doesn't work in [civ4]. Is Khan willing to consider declaring on Mao? If its not redlined out, we could accumulate a couple of monopoly techs and see if we can start a war. Is Mansa still at war with Monty? We could always declare on Monty to get the mutual struggle points from Mansa. I wouldn't send any troops, though, for fear of war weariness.

ChrTh

Apr 20, 2006, 06:11 AM

I've read that last minute gifting doesn't work in [civ4]. Is Khan willing to consider declaring on Mao?

That's why I say hold on to it and wait for them to ask. If they ask you for something and you give it, you get the bonus no matter how much time is left. If you give it freely, there's no bonus right away but it does get added to your 'traded forthright' bonus.

Khan is willing to declare on Mao (despite the fact that they're friendly) for a couple techs. The problem is that paying Khan to declare on Mao will mean Mao will not vote for us if Khan overtakes him in population ("You brought in someone to fight us" penalty). So I'm not sure how that'll help us out.

Conroe

Apr 20, 2006, 08:46 AM

Khan is willing to declare on Mao (despite the fact that they're friendly) for a couple techs. The problem is that paying Khan to declare on Mao will mean Mao will not vote for us if Khan overtakes him in population ("You brought in someone to fight us" penalty). So I'm not sure how that'll help us out.I'm not sure that it is a good idea; I just wanted to throw it out for discussion. Mainly because Khan would not vote for Mao if they are at war. But, would Khan then vote for us? I guess it all goes back to that +10 in relations number. How certain are you that we will need to get everyone to +10 to win?

Maquis

Apr 20, 2006, 08:53 AM

I understand that getting Khan to decalre on Mao would assure he won't vote for Mao. Then, if Khan comes to us for help, we could get a "mutual struggle" bonus with him... although I don't know if we can be assured that Khan will ask for help.

The other question is, would us decalring on Mao (if Khan asks) hurt our relation with Cyrus? I think that getting Khan into war, and then joining him will get us the boost we need with Khan... but no idea what that will do to Cyrus...

ChrTh

Apr 20, 2006, 09:02 AM

I guess it all goes back to that +10 in relations number. How certain are you that we will need to get everyone to +10 to win?

Pretty certain. In CTIV-3 we didn't receive votes at +8. I mean, there's no harm in trying; Mao doesn't have the votes to win. And if Kublai votes for Mao, we can use that number as a barometer.

Conroe

Apr 20, 2006, 11:06 AM

I downloaded the save and took a look at our relations to see if I could gleam anything from the data.

Here is what everybody (except Monty) thinks of us:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/CTIV-7_Attitude_Us.jpg

Here is what everybody thinks about Mao:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/CTIV-7_Attitude_Mao.jpg

One of the first things that I note is that Khan has a higher relations with us (+5) than with Mao (+4), but yet he voted Mao to be SecGen. Not sure what gives with this ...

The other thing that glares out at me is the number of Traded with Worst Enemy hits that we are taking. I'm not sure what happened here because I thought we were keeping a close eye on all of that. Unfortunately, it is water under the bridge and there is nothing we can do about it now.

How about this: We know Mansa and Cyrus love each other, how about working on them? Cancel all deals with Kublai and Mao (and heck if they end up declaring war, we'll just need to be sure we can take 'em). Revolt to Representation, and Pacifism first, and then next turn convert to Islam. After 5 turns revolt to Free Markets as well (or get it via the UN?)

Not sure how good this idea is ... anyone have something better?I think you have a good plan. Why not convert to Islam first? Khan and Cyrus are running Free Religion so we won't get dinged. And, we've got an 8 point buffer with Mao; hopefully that will be enough to keep him from declaring on us.

Then, next turn switch all 3 civics at once. I'm not sure why you are proposing to revolt to Free Market seperately from Representation and Pacifism. All at once will be a 2 turn anarchy, but it will still be 2 turns regardless. I'm slightly confused on this point.

Basically, though, CT's plan is solid.

ChrTh

Apr 20, 2006, 11:31 AM

Why not convert to Islam first?

You can't convert to a religion if you're running Free Religion. You have to convert to a different religious civic first.

Then, next turn switch all 3 civics at once. I'm not sure why you are proposing to revolt to Free Market seperately from Representation and Pacifism. All at once will be a 2 turn anarchy, but it will still be 2 turns regardless. I'm slightly confused on this point.

I typically don't like 2 turn revolts :)

ChrTh

Apr 20, 2006, 11:43 AM

I need to do an emergency Out of Pocket

Any game that I'm in that wants to upgrade to 1.61 can do so, I'll patch up when I return (hopefully Monday, maybe not until Friday next week)

Scowler

Apr 20, 2006, 01:04 PM

Any game that I'm in that wants to upgrade to 1.61 can do so, I'll patch up when I return (hopefully Monday, maybe not until Friday next week)

Okay. I already had to patch for another SG so, assuming nobody else objects, I'll be playing my turn in 1.61 (please state in the next few hours if you want to stay at 1.52).

Maquis

Apr 20, 2006, 01:48 PM

Just a confirmation, I am fine with patching, I'm ready for 1.61 once Scowler is done.

So, we want to take bets that it won't get past Scowler and myself? I know somone (Bede?) predicted that we would be able to end it...

ChrTh

Apr 20, 2006, 02:01 PM

So, we want to take bets that it won't get past Scowler and myself? I know somone (Bede?) predicted that we would be able to end it...

I'm betting it will get around to Methos again.

Methos

Apr 20, 2006, 04:23 PM

I'm betting it will get around to Methos again.

Really? You believe we'll have trouble getting the vote? The next vote should come up within the next turn or so. Granted, I believe it has been discussed switching civics via UN prior to going for the Diplo win.

One thing, I believe (may be mistaken) that when you force civics changes via the UN vote there is no anarchy. We could force one of our changes and take the one turn anarchy by normal method.

Methos

Apr 20, 2006, 04:25 PM

ChrTh

Apr 20, 2006, 04:34 PM

Really? You believe we'll have trouble getting the vote? The next vote should come up within the next turn or so. Granted, I believe it has been discussed switching civics via UN prior to going for the Diplo win.

One thing, I believe (may be mistaken) that when you force civics changes via the UN vote there is no anarchy. We could force one of our changes and take the one turn anarchy by normal method.

I believe that even after making the Civics/Religions changes, it's going to take time to build up the new modifiers (for favorite Civic/Religion) and bring down the old negative modifiers (trading with worst enemy). That's why I think it's going to last at least another full rotation.

UN changes to Civics happen without anarchy. However, I do not believe either Representation or Free Markets are a UN Civic choice (iirc there's an Open Markets, but that's not the same as the Civic)

Scowler

Apr 20, 2006, 05:20 PM

Do we want to patch this close to the end? I recall Represenation is affected, but I'm not sure what else. I hate to have too many modifiers in a game when we're paying such close attention to the fine details. It may be best to finish this game with 1.52 so we don't accidently throw a wrench into our plans.

Can't remember what relations stuff was changed due to the patch. And I hate to find out the hard way.

I don't mind either way, and that certainly seems reasonable, but please decide fairly quickly. I'm not willing (and don't have the time anyway) to mess around with a dual install of Civ just for one round, so if you decide to go with 1.52 I'll take a skip and the next person in line (Maquis?) can play.

ChrTh

Apr 20, 2006, 08:26 PM

I'd rather the game keep moving and take the risk of the patch effects rather than it grind to a halt.

Maquis

Apr 20, 2006, 09:18 PM

If that means I am up, I can play tomorrow, and I can play in 1.52 (I have dual setup working)

Maquis

Apr 22, 2006, 08:31 PM

OK, nothing really important to report on my turns. Right now we are FAR away from winning.

For some reason, screenshots did not take. (I think it has to do with my dual-config with 1.61 and 1.52)

Our own votes are the only ones we get. Cyrus abstains, and Khan actually votes for Mao :eek:

I am not sure how we can swing the votes our way... I have revolted to Representation, which gave us a +1 with Cyrus. The big thing that is nagging him is the -4 "traded with worst enemy"... and he claims his worst enemy is Khan! :cry: Not sure how we can get rid of that one...

We need to figure out how to get Khan out of Mao's bed (that's a disturbing image!) and how to boost relations with Cyrus. Maybe we can get Cyrus to declare on Monty or Mao, and then Khan wouldn't be his worst enemy?

This is going to be a tough nut to crack...

ChrTh

Apr 22, 2006, 08:52 PM

Our own votes are the only ones we get. Cyrus abstains, and Khan actually votes for Mao :eek:

I am not sure how we can swing the votes our way... I have revolted to Representation, which gave us a +1 with Cyrus. The big thing that is nagging him is the -4 "traded with worst enemy"... and he claims his worst enemy is Khan! :cry: Not sure how we can get rid of that one...

We need to figure out how to get Khan out of Mao's bed (that's a disturbing image!) and how to boost relations with Cyrus. Maybe we can get Cyrus to declare on Monty or Mao, and then Khan wouldn't be his worst enemy?

This is going to be a tough nut to crack...

The Representation bonus will grow over time with Cyrus; did we cancel all deals with Khan? If so, the penalty will decrease with time as well.

If we don't need Khan's votes, then we shouldn't worry about him voting for Mao because the two can't win by themselves.

ChrTh

Apr 23, 2006, 12:21 PM

I'm guessing either Scowler (if we go 1.61) or Conroe is up (if we stay 1.52)

Conroe

Apr 24, 2006, 08:47 AM

I'm guessing either Scowler (if we go 1.61) or Conroe is up (if we stay 1.52)I really don't have a preference whether we upgrade it or not. I guess it is your call, CT, since it is your name on post #1 :D

ChrTh

Apr 24, 2006, 08:56 AM

I really don't have a preference whether we upgrade it or not. I guess it is your call, CT, since it is your name on post #1 :D

Well, let's give Scowler 24 to get it, and if he gets it, we're on 1.61, otherwise Conroe keep it at 1.52. While I'd prefer to keep it at 1.52, it's just too hard at this point with most of the games shifting.

Methos

Apr 24, 2006, 05:47 PM

Well, let's give Scowler 24 to get it, and if he gets it, we're on 1.61, otherwise Conroe keep it at 1.52. While I'd prefer to keep it at 1.52, it's just too hard at this point with most of the games shifting.

It's no problem for me either way. I've got it dual loaded. I'm curious if we'll have any glitches like we did when we converted previously, from 1 to 1.09, and 1.09 to 1.52. That's one reason I hesitate to upgrade, especially since this one is almost complete.

I'll go either way the group chooses.

Scowler

Apr 24, 2006, 05:51 PM

Well, I have some free time so unless Conroe has any objections to patching you can consider this an official "got it".

Scowler

Apr 25, 2006, 04:04 AM

Turn 0 (1840 AD)
Cyrus is Pleased (+7) with us, but Khan is now Cautious (+3). Since Khan has always preferred Mao to us this shouldn't be too disturbing; we just need to make sure he isn't tempted to declare war on us (we have the lowest power rating aside from Montezuma, whereas Khan's is climbing at an alarming rate).

Refrigeration is due in 1. Turning science down to 30% for 1 turn will give us 1111g.

Seattle is a dunghill so the Bank is switched to a Grocer.

The mines around NY need to be switched to windmills in order to allow the city to grow that little bit extra. Fortunately, we have a clutch of workers ready and waiting nearby who can do most of the work in a single turn.

IBT:
Boston finishes: Aqueduct
Los Angeles grows: 15
Santiago finishes: Rifleman
Seville finishes: Market
Barcelona finishes: Market
Cordoba finishes: Observatory
Mansa adopts Free Speech and Free Religion
Khan completes the Kremlin.

Turn 1 (1842 AD)
Science back up to 90%: Assembly Line is now due in 3. Since we are not likely to win any time soon we should think about building up our military, partly to dissuade any expansionist neighbours, and partly in case we want to grab those extra votes through conquest.

I can't see the point in keeping DC on Wealth at the moment, as we seem to be making enough money already. I'd rather put those hammers to good use, so I set up Oxford University (due in 12). Some further micromanagement and railroading of mills and mines brings the build time down a few turns more.

Boston begins: The Eiffel Tower
Cordoba begins: Machine Gun
Barcelona begins: Machine Gun
Seville begins: Grocer
Santiago begins: Hospital

IBT:
Atlanta finishes: Rifleman
Gepid grows: 21
Cordoba grows: 13

Turn 2 (1844 AD)
Atlanta begins: Machine Gun

IBT:
New York grows: 15

Turn 3 (1846 AD)
Time to choose a new Secretary General. We have 278 votes; 290 are needed to win. Now who shall I choose?

IBT:
Murcia grows: 16
Salamanca grows: 14
Salamanca's borders expand

Turn 4 (1848 AD)
We are re-elected:

http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/5623/civilization420060425040023422.jpg

Research begun: Industrialism

I do some trading with Cyrus:

http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/7752/civilization420060425041823349.jpg

IBT:
New York finishes: Grocer
San Francisco grows: 11
Seville finishes: Grocer
Cordoba grows: 14
Cordoba's borders expand
Khan adopts Free Speech

Turn 5 (1850 AD)
Cyrus now has Rocketry: we could find ourselves in a space race soon.
New York begins: Factory
Seville begins: Artillery
Gepid begins: Hospital

IBT:
Atlanta grows: 20
Seville grows: 18

Turn 6 (1852 AD)
Cyrus has just finished a golden age. Guess that explains how he became so advanced.

IBT:
Boston grows: 20
Chicago grows: 17
Barcelona grows: 12
Barcelona finishes: Machine Gun

Turn 7 (1854 AD)
Time to choose a Resolution to vote on. Might as well go for a diplo win once more, just to see how things have changed.
Barcelona begins: University

IBT:
Murcia finishes: Grocer
Salamanca grows: 15
Salamanca finishes: Infantry

Turn 8 (1856 AD)
The results are in:

http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/6296/civilization420060425045232877.jpg

Nice of Cyrus to vote for us this time. Now all we need are Mansa's votes as well and we should have no trouble...

In other news, Khan has cancelled the ivory for pigs deal we had with him. The loss of happy causes slight problems in a couple of cities, but nothing major. He now has Rocketry as well; Mao has Plastics.

Research begun: Rocketry
Murcia begins: Factory
Salamanca begins: Colosseum

IBT:
Washington finishes: Oxford University
Philadelphia finishes: University
Seville finishes: Artillery
Cordoba grows: 15
Cordoba finishes: Machine Gun

Turn 9 (1858 AD)
Washington begins: Factory
Philadelphia begins: Grocer
Seville begins: Factory
Cordoba begins: Grocer

IBT:
Chicago finishes: Infantry
Los Angeles grows: 16

Turn 10 (1860 AD)
Chicago begins: Factory

In this last turn Cyrus has gone up to Friendly: he's now at +10 with us.

http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/6267/civilization420060425051720814.jpg

Mansa is willing to trade either Hit Singles or 11gpt in exchange for our bananas or rice. I didn't go for this as I wasn't certain what impact this might have on the health (and therefore growth) of our cities - ditto if a happy resource was offered instead. Also, I'm not sure it would make sufficient difference to our relations at this stage, bearing in mind that Mansa is Cautious rather than Pleased. But of course I could be completely wrong...

I tried to lay the groundwork for a build-up of military and infrastructure in case of either war or a space race. I upgraded a couple of units; there is plenty of cash available to improve a few more.

Eiffel Tower is due next turn, which should alleviate some of the cultural pressure on the cities near Madrid (I've been using artist specialists where possible to help out).

Rocketry is also due next turn, so our Apollo shouldn't be too far behind those of our opponents.

http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/6949/civilization420060425051713044.jpg

http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/3645/civilization420060425051945713.jpg

http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/2420/civilization420060425052003299.jpg

ChrTh

Apr 25, 2006, 04:52 AM

It looks like we're in a race to win via diplo before we have to win via Space. Mao has plastics? Yikes.

Is Mansa still Islamic? Maybe it's time to convert.

Game is now on 1.61. Conroe is UP, I'm on deck.

Conroe

Apr 25, 2006, 01:31 PM

Got It ...

Conroe

Apr 26, 2006, 02:47 PM

I am going to implement ChrTh's civics suggestions (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=3950614#post3950614) to hopefully bring Mansa over to our side. I'm also going to try and get some trading going with him, as well. Maybe by the end of my turns he will be in a better mood to vote for us.

Wow! When Scowler said there was plenty of cash available, it was no joke! We are sitting on 3491 gold and are adding to it at +201gpt with 80% on the research slider. That is just phenomenal!

Turn 0 - 1860AD: I start this show off by signing Open Borders with Mansa Musa. I also go ahead and trade him our spare banana for some of his tunes.

Next are the civics changes: We are already running Representation. So I will need to switch from State Property (Mao's favorite) to Free Market (Mansa's favorite). I will also need to switch us from Free Religion to Pacifism. This will be a 2-turn change. Viva la révolution!

We are also going to lose a lot of happiness with the civics changes, as Chicago is our only Islamic city. Since Chicago has invested no hammers in the queued Factory, I switch the build to an Islamic Missionary. This city also has our only Islamic Monastery, so it will probably need to stay on Missionary duty for the time being.

IBT: Well, Herodotus reports why we are having cultural problems along the Mongolian border.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/CTIV-7_1862AD_Culture.JPG

Turn 1 - 1862AD: Time for another UN vote! I doubt the diplomatic victory vote will be any different four turns later, so I put Single Currency up for a vote instead. It will give each city an extra trade route. Since we have the most cities, it will benefit us the most.

Next, I spend some of our cash on unit upgrades. I start in Barcelona, the city sandwiched in between Khan's empire. If Khan declares on us, he will probably attack this city at some point. I spend 1600+ gold upgrading all of the units to Infantry. We also now have a Cavalry and an Artillery there, as well.

IBT: Mansa begins a golden age.

Turn 2 - 1864AD: The single currency resolution carried unanimously. And the anarchy is over -- for now.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/CTIV-7_1864AD_UNVote.JPG

Relations with Mansa have improved to a +1 as we get credit for having his favorite civic. It will be a few turns before we get the open borders and supplying resources credits from him.

Several cities are now at max happiness. Seattle and Salamanca have 1 angry citizen, while Scythian has 5 angry citizens.

And lastly, we convert to Islam. :aargh: [pissed] It was at this point that I notice that Mansa is no longer Islamic! He is running Free Religion! Why didn't I check sooner? :wallbash: What a stupid, stupid, stupid mistake! :wallbash:

Turn 3 - 1866AD: Well, the anarchy is over and we are now Islamic. Big whoop-tidy do! We have to wait 4 more turns to switch back to Free Religion. In total, I will have wasted 3 whole turns to anarchy for this mistake. :wallbash:

Turn 4 - 1868AD: Rocketry comes in, finally, and I start us on Computers. It leads to Robotics and Mechanized Infantry. I thought about Plastics for the Three Gorges Dam, but that would obsolete our furs.

Boston completes the Eiffel Tower and starts training a Navy Seal. I just love those SEALs. San Francisco completes a Theatre and starts on a Grocer. Santiago completes a Hospital and starts a University.

Gepid is starving, so I preempt the Hospital for a quick Work Boat. I also spend 960 gold to upgrade our 3 remaining Swordsmen to Infantry.

IBT: Cyrus has completed the Apollo program.

Turn 5 - 1870AD: Time for another UN vote! I doubt it will work, but I go ahead and try for another diplomatic victory. We've only added +1 to our relations with Mansa, thus far.

We pick up some spare gold from Washington and Philadelphia. :hmm: It seems that these two cities can no longer work on the Eiffel Tower.

Atlanta completes a SAM Infantry and starts another one.

Turn 6 - 1872AD: UN voting results are in -- nothing changed.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/CTIV-7_1872AD_UNVote.JPG

Boston completes a Navy SEAL and starts another one. Chicago completes an Islamic Missionary and starts on another one. The Work Boat is completed in Gepid and the city is no longer starving. Work resumes on the Hospital.

Mao spreads Confucianism to Atlanta. Meanwhile, our Islamic Missionary is bound for Scythian.

Turn 7 - 1874AD: Boston completes a Navy SEAL and starts a Factory.

Change civics back to Free Religion. :wallbash:

Turn 8 - 1876AD: Anarchy is over. Hopefully for good. Meanwhile, relations with Mansa have improved to +2, as he has forgotten that we refused to accept his favorite civic. Ironic, since we are running it right now.

Turn 9 - 1878AD: Time to vote for UN Secretary General.

A Great Scientist is born in Philadelphia. I'm not sure what to do with him. His tech is 1 turn (25%) off of Fission. I just park him in Philadelphia.

Computers is learned and we start on Plastics. Plastics is required for Robotics. It will obsolete our fur, but most cities have a couple of extra happiness. I add Hollywood to the queue for Boston.

Scythian completes a Market and starts on a Hospital. Seville completes a Factory and starts on a Navy SEAL.

IBT: Evidently, Cyrus has just completed research into Plastics. He ends our deal trading fur for a Hit Musical. I renegotiate the deal and trade him our spare oil for a Hit Musical and 2gpt.

Turn 10 - 1880AD: Mansa votes for us to be Secretary General.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/CTIV-7_1880AD_UNVote.JPG

Chicago completes another Islamic Missionary and starts work on a Factory. The Missionary is on GoTo orders to Seattle. It will be a 4-turn trip.

Relations with Mansa have improved. We are up to +3 with him and he is now pleased with us. We received a second point from him for the civics. We have yet to get credit for open borders or for resource trading. We may want to sell him our spare rice. He will give 11gpt for it.

Boston will complete a Factory in 1 turn. The Hollywood is in the queue. However, we may want to wait the 3 turns for Plastics to come in and the build Three Gorges in Boston, instead. Maybe build Hollywood somewhere else. Of course, if it wasn't for by bonehead three extra turns of unnecessary anarchy we would have Plastics right now and be starting the Three Gorges Dam! :wallbash:

ChrTh

Apr 26, 2006, 03:01 PM

Ok, looks like I'm up, I'll probably play tonight or tomorrow night (I need to upgrade to 1.61).

I guess I have two goals for my turn: one, see if I can improve relations with Mansa, and two, plan for a fallback space race victory.

Bede is On Deck.

ChrTh

Apr 26, 2006, 05:04 PM

Turn 0 -- 1880 AD

Everything looks good. I don't know if Boston will be able to build 3 Gorges Dam, but I'll see. Seville definitely can, so either Boston or Seville will try for 3 Gorges.

Turn 1 -- 1882 AD

Washington: Factory > Lab
New York: Factory > Lab
LA: University > Factory
Barcelona: Ditto
Boston: Factory > Hollywood

Mao completes the Pentagon.

I decide to use the Great Scientist to build the Academy in Philly.

Turn 2 -- 1884 AD

Mansa wants us to trade Computers for Flight and his treasury. I don't think it'll help us, but I go for it anyway...er, at least I thought I did, but he didn't accept it after I negotiated but changed nothing :confused:

Salamanca: Colosseum > Library

I be working on the railroad.

Turn 3 -- 1886 AD

Plastics is in, start Robotics for Space Elevator.

Seville: Navy Seal > 3 Gorges (for now)

UN Vote comes up. I do Diplo Victory just to see the state of the world.

Confucianism spreads in Murcia and Cordoba.

I was right, we can't build 3 Gorges in Boston. I have to keep it in Seville, which will take 34 turns. I don't think we're going to get it. :sad:

Islam spreads in Seattle.

Turn 4 -- 1888 AD

Murcia: Factory > Lab
Santiago: University > Factory
Seattle: Grocer > Bank

Voting comes out substantially the same. We're 94 votes shy.

Confucianism comes to Chicago.

:coffee:

Turn 5 -- 1890 AD

Cordoba: Grocer > Market

More :coffee:

Turn 6 -- 1892 AD

Philly: Grocer > Factory
Atlanta: SAM > Factory
Gepid: Market > Confused Temple

Kublai Khan completes Apollo Program.

Turn 7 -- 1894 AD

Robotics is in, go for Genetics (for the Health bonus)

I don't have a UN vote.

Wait a second ... we don't have Aluminum? :eek: Fortunately Mansa has extra Aluminum to trade when we start building Spaceship components.

Mansa's up to +4.

Turn 8 -- 1896 AD

Washington: Lab > Wall Street
Salamanca: Library > Forge

Turn 9 -- 1898 AD

Mao completes Apollo. Cyrus completes a Casing.

Turn 10 -- 1900 AD

NYC: Lab > Scotland Yard

I don't know, gang. It looks like we're about to get into a Space Race. While we have the tech lead, our weak production hurts us -- this is no sure thing. Maybe we need to do a 5-turn conversion to Universal Sufferage to get 3 Gorges (not yet--we need to raise the money first).

We need to build Apollo and Space Elevator ... Hollywood is due in 2, we should probably trade for the Aluminum after it's in.

Bede in UP, Methos is On Deck.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/CTIV-7_AD-1900.Civ4SavedGame

Bede

Apr 26, 2006, 08:08 PM

Got it and playit tomorrow.

Have we got Scotland yard anyplace? Spies go a long way to stopping a Space Race. Or at least holding it in check.

Any idea where Mansa stands in the Space competition? If we only have to go blowing things up in China that would be best.

ChrTh

Apr 26, 2006, 08:16 PM

I just started Scotland Yard in NYC. I think it'll be done in 16 or 17 turns.

I think the only Civ that has built a spaceship component is Cyrus (1 casing). I'm pretty sure everyone else has completed Apollo.

ChrTh

Apr 26, 2006, 08:33 PM

One other thing: we might want to declare war on Monty and get Mansa involved. They'll get us a "mutual struggle" bonus. Of course, it depends on how long the war takes (obviously we wouldn't do anything)

Conroe

Apr 26, 2006, 09:12 PM

Turn 7 -- 1894 AD

Mansa's up to +4.Are we getting credit for the open borders and resource trading, yet? If it hasn't already been done, we should consider selling him our spare rice. Or, maybe just gifting it to him outright.

One other thing: we might want to declare war on Monty and get Mansa involved. They'll get us a "mutual struggle" bonus. Of course, it depends on how long the war takes (obviously we wouldn't do anything)As long as we don't send any troops, then we shouldn't get dinged with any war weariness. But, note that our Scout is keeping an eye on Monty. He will need to ski-daddle before getting whacked or we will get some war weariness. (Disclaimer: This assumes, of course, that the war weariness calculations have not substantially changed in the patch.)

Bede

Apr 27, 2006, 10:13 PM

Turn 320 (1900 AD)
Move the workers around to try and match food to population in a couples of places and get some growth in others. If we can keep growing out the population we will get a little closer to the vote for UN victory. THough we have a long way to go to get the 117 votes held close to the vest by the Khan
Scythian begins: Harbor
Tech learned: Genetics
San Francisco grows: 13
Gepid finishes: Confucian Temple

Turn 321 (1902 AD)
Cyrus wants to trade Computers for Flight but I turn him down as I think Mansa has the same deal and more money
Scythian begins: Christian Temple
And that is indeed the case and I get 80 more gold and Flight for Computers from Mansa.
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a371/doconor/CTIV-7/1902.jpg
Another resolution comes up and I try for the Open Markets
Research begun: Fission but I turn research to zero and hire a bunch of scientists to get the knowledge in about 20 turns.
Gepid begins: Factory
Boston finishes: Hollywood
Gepid grows: 22
Cordoba grows: 19

Turn 322 (1904 AD)
Everybody except Mao and Monte votes with us on the Open Markets resolution.
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a371/doconor/CTIV-7/1904.jpg
That is a good sign for us diplomatically I think. Mansa the thief wants a ton of gold for Aluminium but since Hollywood is now in it is time to suck it up and pay for it, so Boston can start on the Space Elevator
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a371/doconor/CTIV-7/1904_01.jpg

Barcelona finishes: Factory

Turn 323 (1906 AD)
Barcelona begins: Laboratory
Murcia finishes: Laboratory
Cordoba finishes: Market

Turn 324 (1908 AD)
Murcia begins: Bank
Cordoba begins: Factory
Kublai completes another casing for 2
Santiago finishes: Factory

Turn 325 (1910 AD)
Santiago begins: Laboratory
Mao gets three casings at once
And the Khan gets another
With the cash in hand to finish the Dam swap out to Universal Suffrage

Turn 326 (1912 AD)

And another vote comes up for SecGen which we win with everyone's votes except Mao, Monte and Khan
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a371/doconor/CTIV-7/1912_00.jpg

Chicago finishes: Factory
Seville finishes: The Three Gorges Dam

Turn 327 (1914 AD)
Chicago begins: Laboratory
Seville begins: Gunship
Salamanca finishes: Forge

Turn 328 (1916 AD)
Salamanca begins: Fighter
A Great Artist born in Boston
Murcia grows: 19
Seville finishes: Gunship

Turn 329 (1918 AD)
A Great Artist is born in Boston so I combine him with a Scientist and start a Golden Age. I had hoped for an Engineer to finish the Elevator but maybe this will do it.
Seville begins: Gunship
Salamanca begins: Mechanized Infantry
Salamanca begins: Factory
Scythian finishes: Christian Temple
Murcia finishes: Bank

And another UN vote is held

Turn 330 (1920 AD)
Murcia begins: Market

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a371/doconor/CTIV-7/1920_00.jpg

We kept the Persian vote even with the civics change.

Mansa remains the key to the Diplomatic victory. It is probably time to end the deals with Khan and hope that pushes him over the edge. I had thought that giving him Robotics when he asked for it just might do it but I guess it will take some more time for the magic to work. We did get a +1 modifier for that however.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a371/doconor/CTIV-7/1920_01.jpg

There are factories and laboratories going up all over the place. Right now the Khan has the most parts built but Mao is catching up fast.