http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4776238.stm


A odd relating story

Make sure the tanks are pulled out, I'm sure they have some nearby spearmen.

:spear:

I always knew that the canadian army wasent the best one but that one put the icing on the cake.

From now on I will not get frustrated when I loose an infantry to a weaker unit (axemen, maceman ect...) I'll just tell myself that the unit that died was an unit given to me by the canadians ..... :lol:

I'm certain Lieutenant Trevor Greene appreciates your concern.

I always knew that the canadian army wasent the best one but that one put the icing on the cake.

From now on I will not get frustrated when I loose an infantry to a weaker unit (axemen, maceman ect...) I'll just tell myself that the unit that died was an unit given to me by the canadians ..... :lol:

This is not something to be laughed at. That guard took off the helmet to show respect, and was clearly caught offguard.

Canadian army may not have the best weapons or equipments, but most of the soldiers have good education background, not just some high school dropouts. They respect other people's culture because of the Canadian multicultural tradition, are generally not trigger-happy and don't occasionally pull that "friendly fire" trick. A tragedy like this may happen because of them being nice, but in a long run at least they are not as hated as ... you know who.

Canada's armed forces may not have the best equipment but they are often the best trained. Joint Task Force Two has beat all other special forces in training sims.

JTF2 is the most effective kill unit in history. Amazing that we're such peaceful people, yet we produce the best soldiers on earth. Period! WWI, we had the best troops, WW2, same again, Korean War, ditto, War Games 1970-1999 we Canadians dominated all commers. Even when the odds were stacked heavily against us :P (to give specific examples of all of the above would take forever, remember it's just My Humble Opinion, eh?)
And yes, often our equipment is second-rate (the Ross Rifle? shudder!) but we get the maximum use out of it. We put a 75mm anti-tank gun on a F-104 Star Fighter for Pete's sake! We used F-101 VooDoos for 10 years longer than anyone else.

This soldier was set-up and assassinated. If we were nasty people, we'd 'cleanse' the whole area. But we're not, so we'll keep on with our duty there, which is to try to bring peace to the Afghan people. Such courage cannot be taught, it's simply our way of life.

You can have all the JTF2s in the world. When WWIII breaks out, I'll go looking for the nearest Nimitz-class carrier. Honestly, what milletary taskforce, in the history of warfare, has ever had that much advantage over the rest of the world?

Don't get me wrong, I understand the sensitivity to the issue, and it is a shame what happened to that fella. But, who cares about the endless numbers of Afghans that have died/ are dieing?
Give it a face and a name, give it a story in the papers, it becomes human and we care. Leave them faceless and nameless, and let the bodies pile up. Just expressing the other side of the coin. There are causes for things like this...roots, if one will. Not necessarilly justifiable, just thought I'd make the point.

You can have all the JTF2s in the world. When WWIII breaks out, I'll go looking for the nearest Nimitz-class carrier. Honestly, what milletary taskforce, in the history of warfare, has ever had that much advantage over the rest of the world?

I hate to point this out, because don't get me wrong, the amount of taxpayer money spent on the American military is truly a breathtaking thing (1 million per day to keep a carrier operational :eek: ) when you consider how easily more powerful the US is compared to any other country. But all the aircraft carriers in the world won't do one thing to stop terrorism. The new era of warfare against people who like to blow themselves up has nothing to do with how many stealth bombers you have.

This is not something to be laughed at. That guard took off the helmet to show respect, and was clearly caught offguard.

Canadian army may not have the best weapons or equipments, but most of the soldiers have good education background, not just some high school dropouts. They respect other people's culture because of the Canadian multicultural tradition, are generally not trigger-happy and don't occasionally pull that "friendly fire" trick. A tragedy like this may happen because of them being nice, but in a long run at least they are not as hated as ... you know who.

I did not write that to offend anyone, if I did well im sorry.

I said that to be funny not to be offencive. I live in Quebec, Canada ... in quebec its a big part of the humour scene to laugh at the army.

Anyhow! .... im sorry if I offened anyone!

I hate to point this out, because don't get me wrong, the amount of taxpayer money spent on the American military is truly a breathtaking thing (1 million per day to keep a carrier operational :eek: ) when you consider how easily more powerful the US is compared to any other country. But all the aircraft carriers in the world won't do one thing to stop terrorism. The new era of warfare against people who like to blow themselves up has nothing to do with how many stealth bombers you have.

What's the Al Capone quote?

"You can get farther with a kind word and a gun than just a kind word"

Like CIV it's better to have the preeminent military in the world BEFORE hostilities start than to play catchup AFTER hostilties start. Having all them stealth bomber etc also gives the US another diplomatic tool in the handbag, "Give up and leave that guys country you just invaded or boom."

Also, the reason our military costs have skyrocket is the ammount of value we put into percision. If we went back to WW2 era abilities we'd be dropping thousands of bombs into cities carpet bombing them to hit one stupid building. Which would be cheaper for us in terms of money but would probably ruin the city with tons of collateral damage.

Canada on the other hand has screwed it's military over the past several decades. Budget cuts, downsizing, second hand equipment, etc etc puts shame to their past military services.

Also, that Canadian got suckered punched. Dirty pool man. :(

According to the news story, the Canadian Infantry man was critically injured in the attack, but the rest of the Infantry unit opened fire on the Axeman, and killed him.

This would be more like an Axeman unit rushing out and dealing about .5 damage to your Infantry unit before the Axeman is destroyed and removed from play. The Canadian Infantry still wins.

What's the Al Capone quote?

"You can get farther with a kind word and a gun than just a kind word"

Like CIV it's better to have the preeminent military in the world BEFORE hostilities start than to play catchup AFTER hostilties start. Having all them stealth bomber etc also gives the US another diplomatic tool in the handbag, "Give up and leave that guys country you just invaded or boom."

Unfortunately, the US seems to forget about the kind words from time to time.
As for the so-called diplomatic tool, while I freely admit that it has been useful in the past, much of the rest of the world doesn't see this as a tool, but more like basic schoolyard bullying.

According to the news story, the Canadian Infantry man was critically injured in the attack, but the rest of the Infantry unit opened fire on the Axeman, and killed him.

This would be more like an Axeman unit rushing out and dealing about .5 damage to your Infantry unit before the Axeman is destroyed and removed from play. The Canadian Infantry still wins.


You are correct, infantry won.

I wasnt trying to tarnish either country, I was only pointing this story out because of the long running tradition of the AI using spearmen in Civ3 and Axemen in Civ4 to attack units that are imposable to win against. I have never seen a real world event mirror some of the AI silliness, so felt it was worth the time to post this oddity.


I am a Arab american, who lives just outside the Canadian/USA:Michigan border and I have a lot of respect and admiration for my Canadian neighboors.

Canadian infantry is amongst the best trained and equipped.

However... low quality infantry is not the issue... the Canadian armed forces are weak due to the lack of heavy equipment. For one, we don't have any tanks. We have some nice APCs, but no tanks. We have no attack choppers and most of our transport choppers are falling out of the sky. We also have 2 used submarines we bought from the English... big mistake...

So anyways, its not about infantry, that soldier was trying to talk to some village elders and some crazy bastard rushed him with an axe from behind. It wasn't his fault or the village elder's. It was just some bastard who took the opportunity of an enemy soldier taking his guard down.

and JTF2 are real bastards. Sure they are "leet" but what does that mean when they practice political assassinations and questionable tactics of subversion.

oh and to add:
We don't need a big army. Thats a waste of money that would just ruin our economy. We have our big brother down south to protect us from the mean little terrorists.

and JTF2 are real bastards. Sure they are "leet" but what does that mean when they practice political assassinations and questionable tactics of subversion.

oh and to add:
We don't need a big army. Thats a waste of money that would just ruin our economy. We have our big brother down south to protect us from the mean little terrorists.

Amries don't really do a whole lot against terrorist cells operating within the target country.

And sorry, but I doubt Canada goes around assasinating people.

I thought it was obvious, but the terrorist/army comment was sarcasm.

and Joint Task Force 2 has assassinated and kidnapped many people in Afganistan.

oh, please

and Joint Task Force 2 has assassinated and kidnapped many people in Afganistan.

Yeah right.

I thought it was obvious, but the terrorist/army comment was sarcasm.

and Joint Task Force 2 has assassinated and kidnapped many people in Afganistan.


Ummm...their primary job is recon and mapping.
The best units always keep a low profile.
I am sure they have killed, but wetwork is not their primary purpose.
And kidnapped, ummm....exactly why and where would they take these people?

Do we give them to the U.S.?
Before you make statements like you have, could you provide proof.

They must be playing at a low difficulty, or Saladin would have upgraded the axemens to infantry with a few gold coins ages ago.

JTF2 has done a lot of questionable assassinations and kidnappings, there was a good documentary about it on the CBC a few months back.

Look it up and you'll find something.

They must be playing at a low difficulty, or Saladin would have upgraded the axemens to infantry with a few gold coins ages ago.

How ironic, I'm in a game in the 18th century and there's still a pack of axeman roaming the world that Saladin has yet to upgrade.

The Canadian military has long been one of the best trained in the world. But Pierre Trudeau, who many believe to be the best Prime Minister in Canadian history, was the person who began the cut backs. The last 13 years of Liberal party rule has crippled the military even further.

The Sea King helicopters were slated for replacement at the end of the previous federal Conservatives mandate, but was scrapped by the Liberals after the election, and ended up costing Canadian tax-payers $500 million CDN to end the contracted deal. Each hour a Sea King is in operation requires roughly 40 hours of maintenance time. They now have a new deal for a new Sikorski, but they're years from being ready.

As for the Submarines bought from the UK. Buyer beware apparently applies to used submarines too. Sure glad the English are our friends, I'd hate to see the crap they sell to unfriendly nations.

Most Canadian citizens think all Canada is good for is peacekeeping, that that is our "traditional role". Too many people forget how good our troops were during WWI, WWII, and Korea.

For a country that is roughly 1/10th the size of the US, we do just fine.

Trudeau is my personal favorite.

Canada doesn't really need a huge military these days... but yes, during WWI and WWII, our army was quite impressive. Infact the first tanks were built by Canada during WWI.

The British always used us Canadians for "Experiments" like the battle tank.

They must be playing at a low difficulty, or Saladin would have upgraded the axemens to infantry with a few gold coins ages ago.

looks like a case of Elite Warrior versus Regular Marine in civ 3

:sad:

This is not the point here, but I think I would rather be shot by a room full of infranty soldiers than hacked to death by a raving axe-wielding terrorist.

Don't get me wrong, I understand the sensitivity to the issue, and it is a shame what happened to that fella. But, who cares about the endless numbers of Afghans that have died/ are dieing?
Give it a face and a name, give it a story in the papers, it becomes human and we care. Leave them faceless and nameless, and let the bodies pile up. Just expressing the other side of the coin. There are causes for things like this...roots, if one will. Not necessarilly justifiable, just thought I'd make the point.

a very good point which is often overlooked. one death is a tragedy, amillion is just a statistic (stalin)

Actually I think that soldier didn't die at all...
http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2006/03/04/canada-afghanistan060304.html
Yup!
We Canadians got really thick skulls :)

Ps: I hate Trudeau with a passion! Grrrr!@ And Cretchein? Double-Grrrr!@

Some way to show appreciation to the Canadians showing respect for their laws and customs.

Personally, I don't know how inept the guy could have been to get axe rushed. Maybe its not his fault, but rather his comrades who only shot the guy dead after he was hit by the axe.

Trudeau and Chretien rocked.

Chretien was the most pompous, arrogant and ignorant Prime Minister in Canadian history. The liberal party only got elected because they promised to cut the GST, which they swiftly reneged on. Choke a protester? Back room deals? Side step proper procedures in order to push through partisan contracts? Go for it, its ok! We run everything!

Quite simply Canada has not had a decent leader in some time. Paul Martin was an indecisive weenie. Mulroney was handcuffed by the piss poor condition of the economy during the recession, and the fact he was almost as arrogant as Chretien. How far back before you find a decent Prime Minister? Don't ask anyone who was involved with the Avro Arrow about John Deifenbaker.

As far as Stephen Harper goes, the majority of the media has made him out to be a kitten eating, lollipop stealing, mad man with a crazy right-wing agenda, and the weak minded sheep who populate this country have bought into it.

I'm not saying he's great, but how people could possibly vote liberal again after the blatant wasting, and theft of tax-payer's dollars I can't fathom.

They live in Ontario, it's the poluted water... addles their brains. lol!
We Canadians bought 3 used submarines, 1 is really badly broken.
We also have 100 (give or take) Leopard2 tanks, about 25 years old now.
We have less than 100 modern fighters, but some of the best pilots in the world.
And we have JTF2, PPCLI and other elite units :)

JTF2 has done a lot of questionable assassinations and kidnappings, there was a good documentary about it on the CBC a few months back.

Look it up and you'll find something.

I did a search on cbc.ca.
Came up with a bunch of hits on JTF2.
Do we kill, occasionally.
Do we capture Taliban fighters, and turn them over to the US, yes.
Do we assassinate, well, guess that depends on your interpretation. I would say no.
Do we kidnap, no.

And how can you say that they are questionable, when the unit and its specif ic targets are never publicized?

oh and to add:
We don't need a big army. Thats a waste of money that would just ruin our economy. We have our big brother down south to protect us from the mean little terrorists.
I just hope for your sake Canada doesn't suddenly find a huge oilfield in its borders. That big brother might come and 'liberate' Canada from the evil axis of Great Brittain. Then they will not 'seize' controle of the country, but instead 'garrison troops' to help 'rebuild' the country, while their oil companies setup oil refineries and get all the oil contracts.

But obviously that would never happen in the real world... ;)

As far as Stephen Harper goes, the majority of the media has made him out to be a kitten eating, lollipop stealing, mad man with a crazy right-wing agenda, and the weak minded sheep who populate this country have bought into it.

I'm not saying he's great, but how people could possibly vote liberal again after the blatant wasting, and theft of tax-payer's dollars I can't fathom.

But he is right wing....and he's socially conservative.....and sure....the Liberals don't give us much confidence...so how about we vote NDP maybe?

Meh, as long as we keep the terrorist's attention, you Canadians have little to worry about as far as terrorism goes, so a big army really isn't neccesary. It would just eat up your GPT.:p

I just hope for your sake Canada doesn't suddenly find a huge oilfield in its borders. That big brother might come and 'liberate' Canada from the evil axis of Great Brittain. Then they will not 'seize' controle of the country, but instead 'garrison troops' to help 'rebuild' the country, while their oil companies setup oil refineries and get all the oil contracts.

But obviously that would never happen in the real world... ;)

Ever hear of the Alberta Oilsands? Canada actually supplies the US with 2/3s of the oil they burn. It's a wonder we haven't been invaded yet...

Chretien was the most pompous, arrogant and ignorant Prime Minister in Canadian history. The liberal party only got elected because they promised to cut the GST, which they swiftly reneged on. Choke a protester? Back room deals? Side step proper procedures in order to push through partisan contracts? Go for it, its ok! We run everything!

Quite simply Canada has not had a decent leader in some time. Paul Martin was an indecisive weenie. Mulroney was handcuffed by the piss poor condition of the economy during the recession, and the fact he was almost as arrogant as Chretien. How far back before you find a decent Prime Minister? Don't ask anyone who was involved with the Avro Arrow about John Deifenbaker.

As far as Stephen Harper goes, the majority of the media has made him out to be a kitten eating, lollipop stealing, mad man with a crazy right-wing agenda, and the weak minded sheep who populate this country have bought into it.

I'm not saying he's great, but how people could possibly vote liberal again after the blatant wasting, and theft of tax-payer's dollars I can't fathom.


You call Chretien ignorant while you support Harper... did you know that Harper wrote a letter to a native Canadian tribe congratulating them on their independence from England (Indian Independence) when of course, it was INDIA who got their independence, NOT the natives.

If that isn't ignorant, I don't know what is.

Oh, and the US can't invade Canada, it'd be a stupid move. The US relies on Canada too much to invade.

Like our old pal George W Bush once said "Half of our energy comes from overseas, luckily, its from Canada"

So, invade Canada, chaos in the US from the power out. Canada is already an ally, its absurd to invade. The US doesn't invade Saudi Arabia because they are an ally. Iraq however, was being difficult, so they were invadable.

Well, in the modern era, a country can't just randomly invade another country anymore. If the US invaded Canada I'm pretty sure the entire rest of the world would say "wtf stop" and declare war on the US because if they invade poor old Canada who never hurt nobody, how is anyone else safe?

They would at least have to make up some half believable story about terrorists living there or something.

If that isn't ignorant, I don't know what is.

Try going back and reading some of your old posts.

Well, in the modern era, a country can't just randomly invade another country anymore. If the US invaded Canada I'm pretty sure the entire rest of the world would say "wtf stop" and declare war on the US because if they invade poor old Canada who never hurt nobody, how is anyone else safe?

They would at least have to make up some half believable story about terrorists living there or something.
The US doesn't invade contries: they liberate them. Big difference ;)

Canada is already the #1 importer of Oil to the US anyway, plus where else would we ship all our dissaffected liberals to? Though you guys could hand over our deserters a little faster.

Still, that Canadian guy got sucker punched. Dirty pool guys.

wait a minute, the usa did invade canada. i saw it on tv. a little guy called kenny put a stop to it. (i think they killed him):cry:

I served not only in the Regiment that officer was in, but in the same Battalion. He wasn't a grunt, he was an officer, nobody expected him to be a M031 Death Tech.

He was good at what he did, and if you understood that real life is not a FPS, and that he was in that town to provide a presence, not slaughter everyone, you'd understand that being a nice guy in a war zone in always risky. It comes with the sacrifice a soldier makes, willing to put your neck on the line for something bigger than yourself. In this case, an attempt at peace in a region that has been fighting non-stop for generations. So he got attacked, it's in the job description. That's what happens when you attempt to bring order to an area that has been a killing ground for so long, people just can't believe the nonsense you babble on about, namely this notion of a lawful nation at peace. It goes against every instinct these people have grew up with.

What they expected to happen was large scale retribution. The boys did not kill anyone else, and the next patrol from a different platoon came back to the town, the people still expected to be murdered for this act. It didn't happen. Maybe some other countries would have stacked the corpses, as a show of force, but the Canadians are trying to get it through to these people that there is another option instead of killing people. It may be confusing to the afghans who come to expect that from their different tribes, the Brits, the Soviets, even the Americans are heavy handed. But the Canadians are actually trying to make a point that there are other ways to get what you want instead of death. This officer paid his price for the afghans to get a lesson they likely still can't believe. But now the officer and his families lives are changed, the attackers families lives have been changed, and hopefully a few people in that town can think about what happened, and why there has not been any retribution. It won't make a large scale difference, but it an unprovoked attack on an unarmed man looks very poorly for the Taliban, since the Afghans have a fatalistic approach to honor. Nothing good happened on that day, nobody came out ahead. If the attacker thought he was making points for his side, the restraint of the Canadians robbed him of his goal. We can take a hit and shrug it off. PPCLI is not a third rate mob of gun toting yahoo's, they are first rate professional soldiers.

I served not only in the Regiment that officer was in, but in the same Battalion. He wasn't a grunt, he was an officer, nobody expected him to be a M031 Death Tech.

He was good at what he did, and if you understood that real life is not a FPS, and that he was in that town to provide a presence, not slaughter everyone, you'd understand that being a nice guy in a war zone in always risky. It comes with the sacrifice a soldier makes, willing to put your neck on the line for something bigger than yourself. In this case, an attempt at peace in a region that has been fighting non-stop for generations. So he got attacked, it's in the job description. That's what happens when you attempt to bring order to an area that has been a killing ground for so long, people just can't believe the nonsense you babble on about, namely this notion of a lawful nation at peace. It goes against every instinct these people have grew up with.

What they expected to happen was large scale retribution. The boys did not kill anyone else, and the next patrol from a different platoon came back to the town, the people still expected to be murdered for this act. It didn't happen. Maybe some other countries would have stacked the corpses, as a show of force, but the Canadians are trying to get it through to these people that there is another option instead of killing people. It may be confusing to the afghans who come to expect that from their different tribes, the Brits, the Soviets, even the Americans are heavy handed. But the Canadians are actually trying to make a point that there are other ways to get what you want instead of death. This officer paid his price for the afghans to get a lesson they likely still can't believe. But now the officer and his families lives are changed, the attackers families lives have been changed, and hopefully a few people in that town can think about what happened, and why there has not been any retribution. It won't make a large scale difference, but it an unprovoked attack on an unarmed man looks very poorly for the Taliban, since the Afghans have a fatalistic approach to honor. Nothing good happened on that day, nobody came out ahead. If the attacker thought he was making points for his side, the restraint of the Canadians robbed him of his goal. We can take a hit and shrug it off. PPCLI is not a third rate mob of gun toting yahoo's, they are first rate professional soldiers.


Well said. To add to the irony, Greene was planning on going back to Afghanistan with some NGO once his time with the miltary was done.
He was going back as a civilian to help them rebuild their country.

There was a great article in the Toronto Star two Saturday's ago by Mitch Potter about Greene's unit. He travelled with that unit until a day or two before the attack.
One thing that struck me, not only about how Canadian soldiers removed their helmets as a sign of respect to the village elders, but how all the soldiers would drink the green tea offered to them by the Afghani's, once again as a sign of respect.
The previous US units did not do such a thing.
Greene and the other Canadian soldiers made a joke of it with the Afghani's by stating Canadians had stronger stomachs than US soldiers.
They refused to blame US policy to the Afghani's in even such a simple thing as this.
Subtle differences, but important ones when trying to change a country's mindset that has been invaded time after time, starting with Alexander the Great.
I am guessing that to them, we are just another bunch of oppressors who will eventually give up and go away, as every nation has, from the ancient Greeks, to the Brits, to the Soviets, to the US, and now the Canadians.

Besides the tragedy for Greene and his family, another sad note is that Canadians now keep their helmets on when dealing with the locals.
Sad, but understandable.

I just hope for your sake Canada doesn't suddenly find a huge oilfield in its borders. That big brother might come and 'liberate' Canada from the evil axis of Great Brittain. Then they will not 'seize' controle of the country, but instead 'garrison troops' to help 'rebuild' the country, while their oil companies setup oil refineries and get all the oil contracts.

But obviously that would never happen in the real world... ;)

Canada is the 8th biggest oil producer in the world : http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0922041.html

We produce 50% more than Iraq, and we even produce more than the United Arab Emirates.

However, since we're also the 7th biggest consumers, there's not so much left to export.

An interesting fact from that sheet is that the USA consume more oil than the number 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 consumers combined.

Ever hear of the Alberta Oilsands? Canada actually supplies the US with 2/3s of the oil they burn. It's a wonder we haven't been invaded yet...

Get your facts straight : http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0922041.html

How could we supply two thirds of 20.5 million barrels per day when we only produce 3.14 million, and use 2.3 million of those for our own consumption?

It's true that we're one of the biggest oil producers in the world though.

wait a minute, the usa did invade canada. i saw it on tv. a little guy called kenny put a stop to it. (i think they killed him):cry:

Actually, the USA did invade Canada in real life, a long time ago, and were repelled.

Actually, the USA did invade Canada in real life, a long time ago, and were repelled.
really? what repelled them?:mischief:

only kidding!

Yeah, two half hearted attempts on Canada, once during the revolutionary war and once during the war of 1812.

Here's another link regarding the oil, 99% o Canadian net production goes to the US (so if any Candaians wish to complain about our oil consumption please remember your own complicity in this).

Aforementioned Link (http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/canada.html)