Bring back some form of upkeep I'm tired of seeing ever city with them

thats unrealistic

Well being that it taechnically doesn't take much to keep wall s up, there really no use for upkeep. But how about one citizen discontent, cause think about it, would you like to be on the outskirts of the city, and never see anything but a HUGE WALL.

The only problem would be that it would have to take affect ofter sive 5 or something.?

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"Nothing in the world can endure forever"
-Roman Citizen

NO, leave them as they are. But instead of making them cost money, let's instead have any early unit that can ignore city walls. My suggestion: Ballista; an Ancient Roman Catapult (like the ones you saw in Gladiator).

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<IMG SRC="http://forums.civfanatics.com/image_uploads/goodbye3.jpg" border=0>
<FONT COLOR="blue">"Satisfaction is the death of desire."</FONT c>

Blue, what's up with youur signature, your not pre-meditaing suicide are you?

Anyway, I agree w/ you, leave them as they are to begn with.

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"Nothing in the world can endure forever"
-Roman Citizen

bye bye

MrLeN http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/smile.gif

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Where there is money, there are liars!
Check out my Homepage:
Nebulous! (http://members.optushome.com.au/mrlen/homepage/HOMEPAGE.html)
Don't forget to sign my guestbook.
I sure do look forward to feedback!

Originally posted by Dreadnought:
Blue, what's up with youur signature, your not pre-meditaing suicide are you?


I'm sure Blue would be sorely missed. http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/wink.gif

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<IMG SRC="http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/ninja1.gif" border=0>"Engarde you silly fool!
You are no match for my so fine
rapier!"

He who sacrifices his conscience to ambition burns a picture to obtain the ashes.
- Chinese Proverb

Originally posted by BlueMonday:
NO, leave them as they are. But instead of making them cost money, let's instead have any early unit that can ignore city walls. My suggestion: Ballista; an Ancient Roman Catapult (like the ones you saw in Gladiator).


Or a more imaginative idea...
How about an early unit called a Siege Engine? This would have no attack strength - defence strength only - but it would allow any stacked foot soldiers to ignore city walls. (No helping effect on cannons or mounted units.)



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<IMG SRC="http://www.anglo-saxon.demon.co.uk/stormerne/stormerne.gif" border=0>

Or a more imaginative idea...
How about an early unit called a Siege Engine? This would have no attack strength - defence strength only - but it would allow any stacked foot soldiers to ignore city walls. (No helping effect on cannons or mounted units.

That is a great idea stormerne! This would also call for a revision of the stacked unit concept; 1 unit kills 10 stacked units. I've always had a problem with that particular concept of the game. It is, in effect, like an army of 10,000 defeating an army of 100,000 and I cannot see the justification.

Oh well, "What can you do when you live in a shoe" <IMG SRC="http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/smile.gif" border=0>

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<IMG SRC="http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/ninja1.gif" border=0>"Engarde you silly fool!
You are no match for my so fine
rapier!"

He who sacrifices his conscience to ambition burns a picture to obtain the ashes.
- Chinese Proverb

[This message has been edited by Cimfindriel (edited March 15, 2001).]

Originally posted by stormerne:
Or a more imaginative idea...
How about an early unit called a Siege Engine? This would have no attack strength - defence strength only - but it would allow any stacked foot soldiers to ignore city walls. (No helping effect on cannons or mounted units.)



Superlative idea! I think that they already had a "seige engine" unit in the Mongol Hordes scenario, but it only acted like a normal unit. I like the idea of being able to scale city walls with infantry.

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<IMG SRC="http://forums.civfanatics.com/image_uploads/goodbye3.jpg" border=0>
<FONT COLOR="blue">"Satisfaction is the death of desire."</FONT c>

I agree with leaving city walls without upkeep, but make them cost more shields! At least double the shields! City walls cost huge labour and materials to build, but in civ, it costs as much as two settlers.

But what about the great wall? A free wall for every city, with +50% defense against barbarians, AND forced peace negotiations? NOT FAIR! The great wall didn't do sh^t for ancient China and the Mongols still got through easily. The great wall should make city walls cost, say, only half of the shields.

You should also have to upgrade or rebuild city walls. When you discover metullergy, it should say "All walls rendered useless, sold for x money", and you would have to build entrenchments or fortifications or something.

Great Idea stormerne I like it.

Good point Vlad the GW is Way too strong. Should start a thread on that.

Also Cimfindriel good point the stacking rules should be more like alpha centauri with collateral damage. I think that's the way it is planned now. But also should have it's own thread.

Vlad, definitely agree on obsoleting City Walls. Never made sense to build walls once in early BC, and have those same walls now holding off armor attacks for a city 20X bigger than the original when the walls were built.

The Siege Engine sounds interesting. Why don't catapults ignore city walls? (if you want to make them do so, mess with rules.txt)

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I am so great! Gee, arr, ehh, tee! I am so great! Gee, arr, ehh, tee! I mean, my greatness is so obvious! It's all around us! Everywhere you look you will be stunned by my greatness. I can't believe how great I really am.

Originally posted by Cunobelin Of Hippo:
The Siege Engine sounds interesting. Why don't catapults ignore city walls? (if you want to make them do so, mess with rules.txt)



Yeah, I had done that. I was never able to take a city with city walls on any level higher than king with a catapult or cannon so I changed the rules so that catapults, cannons, and artillery ignored them. Perhaps it's a cheap shot way to win, but I like it better.

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<IMG SRC="http://forums.civfanatics.com/image_uploads/goodbye3.jpg" border=0>
<FONT COLOR="blue">"Satisfaction is the death of desire."</FONT c>

Vlad,

I agree with every last word that you say mate, the changes that you mention should be taken as a given as far as I am concerned.

Blue,

Don't be calling yourself a cheat, same rules for everyone right? By the way, is your name anything to do with the New Order song of the same name?

*Alarms* About to go off topic.

F*&k it dead topic anyway. Have you heard the song Blue Monday by New Order?

In reality City walls cost quite alot of resources to construct. I just think they should cost more, thats all <IMG SRC="http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/smile.gif" border=0>

Mongol Horde...Why is it dead? Is that because it's not your post/idea?

MrLeN

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Where there is money, there are liars!
Check out my Homepage:
Nebulous! (http://members.optushome.com.au/mrlen/homepage/HOMEPAGE_B.html)
Don't forget to sign my guestbook.
I sure do look forward to feedback!

[This message has been edited by MrLeN (edited March 29, 2001).]

Excuse me MrLen but have I done something to offend you? http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/frown.gif The topic hadn't been replied to for 12 days until I took it from the bottom of the pile this morning with a constructive reply, so I was just trying to be chummy with Blue.

No, you have done nothing to offend me.

MrLeN

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Where there is money, there are liars!
Check out my Homepage:
Nebulous! (http://members.optushome.com.au/mrlen/homepage/HOMEPAGE_B.html)
Don't forget to sign my guestbook.
I sure do look forward to feedback!

Good, every one know that the Mongols are lovers not fighters. http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/yeah.gif

Maybe city walls will be obsolete as the city grow? A city wall usually stops the growth of the city. Many cities have an old section with a wall around it, and a new one without a wall;
Since it would too complicated to do this in civ, it could be simulated like so: A city wall around a city of size X, will have to be rebuilt (or destroyed), to let the city reach a size of X+3 (that is, the city can grow to X+1,X+2 with the same wall, but that's it).

Originally posted by rouli:
Maybe city walls will be obsolete as the city grow? A city wall usually stops the growth of the city. Many cities have an old section with a wall around it, and a new one without a wall;
Since it would too complicated to do this in civ, it could be simulated like so: A city wall around a city of size X, will have to be rebuilt (or destroyed), to let the city reach a size of X+3 (that is, the city can grow to X+1,X+2 with the same wall, but that's it).
Sounds a bit complicated actually. I like the idea of obsoleting in different ages, much like barracks do in Civ II. Not quite as realistic, admittedly, but simpler to manage.

No, my name was taken from a book by Kurt Vonnegutt called Breakfast of Champions about a car salesman with bad brain chemicals and a nut case who writes stories for porno magazines. They meet, they go insane, they kill a bunch of people. Sounds weird, but I assure it is a great book worth reading.

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<IMG SRC="http://forums.civfanatics.com/image_uploads/goodbye3.jpg" border=0>
<FONT COLOR="blue">"Ska sucks...Ska revival is just a tool you stupid f***!
The Feds are only in it for the bucks...and if you don't believe me you're a schmuck!"</FONT c>

"The Siege Engine sounds interesting. Why don't catapults ignore city walls? (if you want to make them do so, mess with rules.txt)"

You are on the right track. A catapult {ital} is {ital} a seige engine, that's why they were built in the ancient world. I edited my rules.txt to make catapults, cannons, artillery, and howitzers ignore city walls. In compensation I lowered the cost of city walls. Also, I increased the hit points of catapults to 2, otherwise there was no reason to build these units as they would be destroyed instantly upon drawing up to an enemy city.

Some one mentioned that under this rubric too many cities have city walls. Outside America (USA), where we have been fortunate enough not to host too many wars, most cities in Europe, Asia, and the Middle East have city walls for precisely the reason that they were constantly under attack. A profusion of city walls is a positive boon and a natural reaction to being in a state of semi-constant war.

Excerpt from the PC GamePlay UK preview:


The Great Canal is one of the new Wonders in the game. When you build that, you can chose a place on the map and connect two oceans, so it's like the Panama Canal. We also have the Great Wall, which is an old wonder, but now you can chose a section of your border and you get a wall that is really hard for someone to get through. We have another great Wonder, the Internet, but we're not sure exactly how that's going to function. We know it's got something to do with education, it will create a smart populace, but appart from that we're stumped."

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<IMG SRC="http://w1.316.telia.com/~u31613053/sign.gif" border=0>

Woulnd't it be a good idea to have a Trojan Horse unit or small wonder you could only use once as a surprise attack ?

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don't try this at home !

Sorry to post a spammy quote but I couldn't this. Monty Python at it's best.

ARTHUR: Well, what are you then?

MAN: I'm French. Why do think I have this outrageous accent, you silly king.

GALAHAD: What are you doing in England?

MAN: Mind your own business.

ARTHUR: If you will not show us the Grail we shall storm your castle. [Murmurs of assent.]

MAN: You don't frighten us, English pig-dog! Go and boil your bottoms, son of a silly person. I blow my nose on you, so-called Arthur-king, you and your silly English K...kaniggets.

[He puts hands to his ears and blows a raspberry.]
GALAHAD: What a strange person.

ARTHUR: Now look here, my good man!

MAN: I don't want to talk to you, no more, you empty-headed animal, food trough wiper. I fart in your general direction. You mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries.

Originally posted by KnightOfNi:
Woulnd't it be a good idea to have a Trojan Horse unit or small wonder you could only use once as a surprise attack ?


Or a giant wooden rabbit! http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/wink.gif

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DEATH awaits you all...with nasty, big, pointy teeth.