Been playing some Monarch games, haven't won any yet, the Barbarians are just kicking my rear! :blush:

They start showing up about halfway through mining and become unmanagable before I even finish researching BW, my civ just can't handle archers coming every turn when all I have to fight them with is warriors. I can't beeline any faster than am I already, I'm not sure how I'm supposed to deal with it.

I post sentries as best I can but usually I only have 2 or 3 warriors when they start spawning, which isn't anywhere close to enough to watch all my backcountry.

What am I doing wrong? I went back to Prince just to check and I won resoundingly (knocked out 3 civs before 1 AD even), so I know I need to change my strategy but I'm having a hard time thinking of what I could do differently.

You need to start off researching mining->bronze working, then get your copper hooked up fast. If you are spiritual, then you might want a detour to find a religion first. If you have no bronze, then you will want to beeline for iron working. In the rare case that you have no copper or iron, then you will definitely want archery and horseback riding, or construction if you have ivory. In the meanwhile, post some warriors as sentries on high defensive tiles around your cities to stop barbs from spawning near you. Try it, hope this helps.

Research BW and The Wheel. If you have Copper, build Axemen.

If not, research Animal Husbandry. If you have horses, build Chariots. They are real good against warriors/archers, just be sure to attack on open.

If neither Copper nor Horses, research Archery, then Iron Working.

I'm in the same boat. Getting close to BW and the barbs are everywhere. I get rushed by archers and I have 2-3 warriors. Founding another city is out of the question and unless I'm lucky enough to get copper in my capital i'm hosed.

SOP: W->W->W->Worker->worker->settler

BW->Pottery->ABC's

but i never get any further. I cant seem to settle a city AND keep the barbs off my back much less hook up copper. :cry:

The reason I advocate for iron working is that you might also have an aggressive AI or two nearby, in that case, it would be pretty suicidal for your chariots to go up against spears. If no AI civs nearby, chariots might be okay for a while, until barb axemen/swordsmen show up, then you are going to have trouble. Your archers can hide safely in cities, but some/most of your improvements will be pillaged, and it will be pretty dangerous for your workers with barbs running around your cities. It will takely more turns to then tech to horseback riding as compared to tech straight iron working research directly. Also part of my reasoning is from playing multiplayer, in MP game, a decent player with metal will basically defeat someone with only horse, spears and pikemen simply dominate mounted units.

If there are too many barbs, it basically means that there is no AI nearby. Iron Working is important, but kinda expensive. As for Animal Husbandry, you usually need it anyway as one of the worker techs.

Yup, I have similar troubles - one thing I noticed was that at Monarch in particular, the barbs will attack you regardless of score. On prince level or easier, they'll lurk around outside your cultural borders for a while until you become the score leader before moving in for the kill. Of course that makes sense since on higher levels it's rare to ever be the score leader during the time period that barbs will be posing a threat.

Rast, if you want to, you can post a 4000BC game that you are having trouble with, and we can compare notes.

BTW, playing a game with raging barb setting/highland map would be good practice if you think are getting ran over in a normal type game. You think you are having barb trouble, you don't know the real meaning of that phrase until you try "raging barbs" setting. Only masochists and megalomaniacs should bother applying. ;)

You can fight barbs with warriors. The general rule: never attack, and if a barb approaches to your unfortified warrior, run away. Do not step toward a barb, since you won't have time to fortify.

So, move your warrior a little outside your cultural borders, find a forest or forested hill, and fortify there before any barb approaches. If a barb attacks, your warrior must be fortified already. If your warrior survives but damaged, and another barb is coming, retreat, and move forward a reserve. You should always have one or two warriors in reserve.

Promote your warrior to Woodsman I and II. Woodsman II is real cool, since your warrior can move 2 tiles while in forests.

Here is some statistics from my latest Inmortal game (isolated start on a continent) by 700AD. I built 8 warriors, 8 chariots, and 7 axes. They killed 19 warriors, 15 archers, and 7 axes. My losses: 6 warriors, 3 chariots, and 1 axemen.

On Monarch, with raging barbarians on:
I usually sacrifice some growth and shields early to work on high commerce tiles to get BW and the Wheel faster. Ok, it's somehow easier since I play with Elisabeth a lot. :) And, if I have bronze I DROP my research to 0% (!) for several turns and UPGRADE one or two of my warriors to axmen, (or at least keep the cash in case of need).
...Let 'em come now! :D
If there's no bronze you'll need archers. No way you will survive to Iron Working otherwise - at least not with raging barbarians.

Yup, I have similar troubles - one thing I noticed was that at Monarch in particular, the barbs will attack you regardless of score. On prince level or easier, they'll lurk around outside your cultural borders for a while until you become the score leader before moving in for the kill. Of course that makes sense since on higher levels it's rare to ever be the score leader during the time period that barbs will be posing a threat.

I think barbs attack regardless of score..when you see them lingering around the borders, it juz means that it's still early in the game (depending on difficulty) for the barbs to start crossing borders.. (I remembered reading discussions on this somewhere).

Here is how it looks like with raging barbs on Inmortal. Even Copper in the fat cross does not help too much. :) It seems like you need Archery ASAP, no matter what.

Did you chop for an axeman right away? I find there is a brief window of opportunity to get my defense up before the barbs arrive on "raging barbs" setting. Basically after I fend off the first wave, I will do all my exploring, fog busting, settler-escorting with axemen. Anyway, that was on immortal, the OP's game was on normal monarch level, so he wouldn't have the same kind of barb trouble as your game.

I tried to, right after I built the mine. In a couple of turns a barb approached, and I had to move the worker away.

Thanks for the tips everyone. I was finally get a real Monarch game off the ground, using the Incans. Financial, Aggressive, and an early UU that gets a bonus against archery units.

The UU by itself was enough to keep the barbs and Alex (later) off my back till I got swords (didn't start with any copper around, made things real interesting for a while). There's four people on my continent (Me, Ghandi, Alex, and my old friend Monty), just hit the Medieval period, Ghandi and I are teaching Alex and Monty a lesson in manners, I've broken even on tech and am first on score but it's still too early to turn on the cruise control. So maybe this will be the game I finally win :)

Thanks for the tips everyone. I was finally get a real Monarch game off the ground, using the Incans. Financial, Aggressive, and an early UU that gets a bonus against archery units.

The UU by itself was enough to keep the barbs and Alex (later) off my back till I got swords (didn't start with any copper around, made things real interesting for a while). There's four people on my continent (Me, Ghandi, Alex, and my old friend Monty), just hit the Medieval period, Ghandi and I are teaching Alex and Monty a lesson in manners, I've broken even on tech and am first on score but it's still too early to turn on the cruise control. So maybe this will be the game I finally win :)

good to hear that! hope you also get to learn new strategies from this monarch game. there's so much to learn and explore in CIV, but even more :thumbsup: threads over here to read and help!!

Here is how it looks like with raging barbs on Inmortal. Even Copper in the fat cross does not help too much. :) It seems like you need Archery ASAP, no matter what.

Dang. :eek:

Originally Posted by Andrei V
Here is how it looks like with raging barbs on Inmortal. Even Copper in the fat cross does not help too much. It seems like you need Archery ASAP, no matter what.

You don't need axemen. You need tanks!!! :eek: :eek:

Actially it is my believe fog busting is a key.
I play and win consistently on Monarch level. My useal game starting strategy is tend to be different from advised in this forum. I tend to go

and build 2 or even 3 explorers in order to explore as mach as posible and grab as many huts as posible. Even if I do not have hunting, my first tect will be hunting.

So, Useal sequence. Build sity, start research hunting. set production to warrior.

Hunting come befor warrior end. switch to scout. City grow to 2, optimyse city for 0 grow (work 2 plain forest ties).

At that stage city can crank explorer every 3 turns. Get amount explorers I want out finish warior and start worker. Warrior going to some forest hill out to most probable barbarian location and fortifyed there.
Research wise After hunting I do 1 more worker tech depends on special resources in town and aviability and then Mining/bronse. worker tech is noce because I have city size 2, working 2 ties.
Production useall after finishing warrior -worker-worker-warrior-setler.
Setler or worker could be partially chopped, but size 2-3 city with special resources improved actially can produse them resonably fast itself.

It is very nice to know all land around you in details early on, meat all AI there fast and get a lots of huts. I believe it is more then compensate for sligth delay in development.

In addition after explorers finished with exploring they are going to hills around my civ on sentery fog busting duty. They can not fight anything exept animals, but they do reduce barbarian amount by doing fog busting all around my civ and give me early warning about incoming barbarians.

It seems like you need Archery ASAP, no matter what.

Yes, everyone's in such a hurry to get BW but Archery is a much cheaper tech to get and Archers are cheaper to build then Axemen. And they don't need any resources. Plus with all the bonuses they get, they're naturals for defense. Put an Archer on a forested Hill and not even a Barb Swordsman can take him down, usually. They do get lucky sometimes. And they're ultimately much better at city defense since they get the Garrison promotions and Axemen don't. The only advantage Axemen have is on flat ground outside the city.

Fog busting may work well on Monarch, but as the difficulty increases, it becomes more and more problematic due to the increased unit maintenance cost.

This is the main reason why I prefer Chariots over Archers whenever possible - I typically need about twice as less of them. They are very efficient against Warriors/Archers, and can perform decently even against Axemen, if you give them Shock promotion.

Chariots needed hourses connected, which could be a problem early in game.

Yes, they do. You start with Archers, and then replace them by Chariots, if you get Horses.

Yes, everyone's in such a hurry to get BW but Archery is a much cheaper tech to get and Archers are cheaper to build then Axemen. And they don't need any resources. Plus with all the bonuses they get, they're naturals for defense. Put an Archer on a forested Hill and not even a Barb Swordsman can take him down, usually. They do get lucky sometimes. And they're ultimately much better at city defense since they get the Garrison promotions and Axemen don't. The only advantage Axemen have is on flat ground outside the city.

You are right about archers getting city garrison promotion and excellent for city defense. But if several barb axe decides to pillage your resources and tiles, there is not much you can do short of throwing 4-5 archers at it, and that's just not cost effective. With your land improvement not keeping pace, it is easy to fall behind AI civs, and backward civs are ripe targets for conquest. I usually form an initial fog-busting circle with warriors, then escort all my settlers with axemen. If I have bronze, I don't bother with archery until I need it for longbowman or horse archer.

i really can't understand what it is that you all have with these barbarians.

ive read so many threads about barbs being so nasty and all, yet i've rarely met any of them in my games (up to emperor). there are some wild animals around that will annoy my warrios, but never threaten cities.. but unlike earlier civ games, ive never had barbs appear from huts or as invasion armies.
biggest problem was a barb caravel that appeared near my capital and started pillaging my many clam tiles until i managed to build a galley on my own.

just out of curiousity, i started a custom game with "raging barbarians" the other day.. in this game, a few archers showed up as i was just going for bronze.
the first one immediately killed my veteran warrior in the +40% capital, thus ending the game (monarch) for me. 8)

but allright, that was raging and i wasnt used to barbs. so you all play with raging barbs or what?!

No, it is mach depends on how many other cive are around.
If you play on Pangea Maps with lots of civs you will never see mach of Barbarians.

On other hand, if you in isolated corner with lot unvisited land around, you migth found yourself bisieged by 10 barbarians in a few turns, if you are not carefull.

Try to play this save game. I had a fun game with this one, I found it really challenging and interesting.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=162258

I did win that game, actually (space race is 1796).

Right now I'm in the midst of another game and I researched Archery early, which does indeed take care of barb problems (esp. with Mansa and his invulnerable Skirmisher UUs), but that caused it's own set of problems, it took a while to get to Alphabet as my maint. costs forced me to turn down my research to 30% till I got some cottages built. I don't think this is normal though since this game is one of my worst starts ever (8 flood plains in my capital's fat cross, jungle everywhere, 3 unfriendly civs nearby), so I might start over and see if I get a better start and see how it goes.

EDIT:

For Astat, I play continents and Marathon, barbs are always worse on Marathon since they show up earlier in tech advancement and hang around for *much* longer, usually the barbs are significant threat from turns 30-100 or so. If you're on an island by yourself (which isn't uncommon on continents maps) they'll stay around longer (however long it takes you get sentries everywhere).